The Incomparable

196: Golem and Jinni Detective Agency


00:00:00   the incomparable number 196 may 2014 [TS]

00:00:15   welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:16   podcast on your host Jason L&I we often [TS]

00:00:19   talk about the hugo award sci-fi novel [TS]

00:00:22   nominees every year we will do that but [TS]

00:00:25   we just couldn't help ourselves there [TS]

00:00:27   was a largely different group of novels [TS]

00:00:30   that was not only for the nebula awards [TS]

00:00:32   which come from the science-fiction [TS]

00:00:33   writers of america and instead of [TS]

00:00:35   America there is an association are they [TS]

00:00:38   are they terrible and it's America [TS]

00:00:40   anti-americanism America ok well it's [TS]

00:00:42   alright we also did establish last year [TS]

00:00:44   that locust or locust notnot first of [TS]

00:00:47   locusts are not locusts they are not [TS]

00:00:49   sort of mantis related things it's [TS]

00:00:51   locusts and they're not from England [TS]

00:00:53   there from Oakland apparently so I still [TS]

00:00:56   think I still think they're from England [TS]

00:00:57   I've heard he may be English but they [TS]

00:00:59   live in oakland and they are not locust [TS]

00:01:02   that's the two anyway I don't even wow [TS]

00:01:05   that is that is a we are off the rails [TS]

00:01:07   early anyway the point is that we read a [TS]

00:01:10   lot of the nebula nominees are some some [TS]

00:01:12   of us read all of them i believe and and [TS]

00:01:15   because there were eight nominees and [TS]

00:01:17   because not all of our regular panelist [TS]

00:01:20   want to read that much because they're [TS]

00:01:22   illiterate people largely been more and [TS]

00:01:24   we're talking about you [TS]

00:01:26   I for I've enlisted some stars from [TS]

00:01:28   other science-fiction related podcast to [TS]

00:01:31   come join us and read some of the nebula [TS]

00:01:33   nominees with his very exciting this is [TS]

00:01:35   like a crossover episode like when when [TS]

00:01:37   like spider-man meets the avengers it's [TS]

00:01:39   that kind of thing and and Daredevils in [TS]

00:01:43   there too and Scott your daredevil [TS]

00:01:44   anyway some ability is here Scott and I [TS]

00:01:47   read everything it's got literally read [TS]

00:01:50   every book that's published hi Scott [TS]

00:01:52   hello to have year good i don't there a [TS]

00:01:55   lot of new people on this podcast are [TS]

00:01:57   you are you feeling comfortable are you [TS]

00:01:59   uncomfortable I am slightly [TS]

00:02:00   uncomfortable right all right well well [TS]

00:02:03   but that's normal though so [TS]

00:02:05   alright so you're here at your user well [TS]

00:02:07   then great [TS]

00:02:08   exactly alright we have three excellent [TS]

00:02:10   special guest stars a long time [TS]

00:02:13   mr. sense since like episode eight at [TS]

00:02:15   least Fred cash i am I've mispronounced [TS]

00:02:19   your name in the past but I hope I got [TS]

00:02:20   it right this time you gotta write we [TS]

00:02:22   can hear you on SF signal and the three [TS]

00:02:25   horsemen which is like a spin-off of the [TS]

00:02:27   SF signal right that was when a the host [TS]

00:02:30   of SF signal Patrick Hester was working [TS]

00:02:33   like 90 hours a week we tried to do [TS]

00:02:35   something to fill in and it's become [TS]

00:02:37   into its own i love spin-off podcast [TS]

00:02:40   I've got we've got like 10 of them now [TS]

00:02:42   you know it's out of control but yeah [TS]

00:02:44   it's great podcast can do that they can [TS]

00:02:46   spin things are off its good i also pole [TS]

00:02:49   lemurs hear you may know him from the [TS]

00:02:51   excellent Hugo nominated skippy and [TS]

00:02:53   fancy podcast and SF signal both hello [TS]

00:02:55   hello hello my name is fully my also [TS]

00:02:58   been known to pop up on other things I [TS]

00:03:00   been on the three horsemen I been on SF [TS]

00:03:03   or do a couple times and I get mention [TS]

00:03:05   other podcasts you make it around well [TS]

00:03:07   now you can add another one to your [TS]

00:03:09   right to your list like that until i get [TS]

00:03:11   another ticket box the list yeah that's [TS]

00:03:13   right your honor lots of podcast you may [TS]

00:03:15   know him from podcasting and Sean Duke [TS]

00:03:18   who is a one of the prime movers behind [TS]

00:03:22   the skinny and fancy podcast which got [TS]

00:03:24   nominated for Hugo and are you going to [TS]

00:03:26   London for worldcon that have you have [TS]

00:03:28   you made it across the finish line with [TS]

00:03:30   your up with your funding I i well I am [TS]

00:03:33   now just trying to raise what I'm [TS]

00:03:35   calling food-related fun right uh-huh so [TS]

00:03:38   you'll be there but we don't know if [TS]

00:03:39   you're gonna eat ya what i eat really [TS]

00:03:42   depends on on how many donations i get [TS]

00:03:44   before the end of the month so it could [TS]

00:03:47   be that I get to eat food that will not [TS]

00:03:49   kill me or it could be that i'm eating [TS]

00:03:52   whatever I find burger king when the [TS]

00:03:53   burger king in England is higher quality [TS]

00:03:56   food and it isn't us [TS]

00:03:58   yeah yeah they're made out of like I [TS]

00:04:01   don't know it's weird well it's because [TS]

00:04:02   the royalty the King you know they they [TS]

00:04:04   respect the king and in England burger [TS]

00:04:07   king here we would have to be like [TS]

00:04:08   burger [TS]

00:04:09   I don't know what burger President had [TS]

00:04:10   it was not advocating now [TS]

00:04:12   no they don't have any of the whole [TS]

00:04:14   royal they will they have you know maybe [TS]

00:04:18   anyway the topic is hamburgers way to [TS]

00:04:21   Central Jersey ahead of royal picture so [TS]

00:04:23   we should talk so there were there were [TS]

00:04:25   eight novels nominated for the nebula [TS]

00:04:27   award there was a winner [TS]

00:04:30   I guess we should I I its public [TS]

00:04:32   knowledge you and ancillary justice by [TS]

00:04:34   and lucky was the winner i should also [TS]

00:04:37   point out that we've talked about two of [TS]

00:04:40   these novels on previous episodes of the [TS]

00:04:43   incomparable we talk about ancillary [TS]

00:04:45   justice and we talked about the ocean at [TS]

00:04:47   the end of the lane by Neil Gaiman we [TS]

00:04:49   did an episode about that the other [TS]

00:04:52   nominees are well we'll just we'll take [TS]

00:04:55   them i think we'll take them in turn and [TS]

00:04:56   talk about what everybody thought of [TS]

00:04:58   them i think that might be the way and [TS]

00:04:59   we'll try to keep the spoilers light so [TS]

00:05:02   that you can listen if you're curious [TS]

00:05:03   and haven't read these novels because [TS]

00:05:05   chances are you probably haven't read [TS]

00:05:06   all eight unless you're a crazy person [TS]

00:05:08   like Scott let's start by ancillary [TS]

00:05:11   justice uh you know it [TS]

00:05:13   ancillary has one African justice is one [TS]

00:05:15   everything all the awards [TS]

00:05:17   it is been up for I think it's one more [TS]

00:05:19   or less and it's the and Lucky's first [TS]

00:05:22   novel and it's rather remarkable first [TS]

00:05:24   novel we loved it when we when we talked [TS]

00:05:25   about in the previous episode Scott said [TS]

00:05:27   last year he said it was the best book [TS]

00:05:29   he read last year right [TS]

00:05:31   it is true and this is gonna be great [TS]

00:05:34   because there's a book that you said was [TS]

00:05:35   the best book you've read so far this [TS]

00:05:37   year and a few episodes ago and it's [TS]

00:05:38   also nominated for the nebulous it's [TS]

00:05:40   very exciting so I'm wondering for Fred [TS]

00:05:43   Paul and Sean have you guys already [TS]

00:05:45   ancillary justice and what did you think [TS]

00:05:47   of it [TS]

00:05:48   I'll go freshen up yeah sure and I did [TS]

00:05:53   read it in in preparation for our own [TS]

00:05:55   mob interview with and lucky I chart and [TS]

00:05:58   I I think I can speak for trying like we [TS]

00:06:01   were blown away by it we got to read [TS]

00:06:02   relatively early and its cycle and get [TS]

00:06:05   to be part of building its momentum [TS]

00:06:07   towards its apparently print up [TS]

00:06:10   acquisition of every award is being [TS]

00:06:12   nominated for I i really liked i really [TS]

00:06:16   like the writing i really like the idea [TS]

00:06:17   she threw out I I was not thrown off by [TS]

00:06:20   it and this is but for podcast have [TS]

00:06:23   talked about it that this happened [TS]

00:06:25   counting the three horsemen so yeah i'm [TS]

00:06:27   a big fan of a like he's worked here [TS]

00:06:30   what do you think's wrong yeah I would [TS]

00:06:32   agree it's currently the the novel that [TS]

00:06:36   is very likely to get my vote for the [TS]

00:06:37   hugo since it's also [TS]

00:06:39   up for that award I and I when we read [TS]

00:06:42   it and we talked to and like you've [TS]

00:06:44   added i mean it it was one of those [TS]

00:06:45   books where we got a slew of novels that [TS]

00:06:48   are very nostalgia oriented and we got [TS]

00:06:50   this one that was not and it was just [TS]

00:06:53   doing all these very interesting [TS]

00:06:54   different things with for example I mean [TS]

00:06:56   the very first chapter I'm not spoiling [TS]

00:06:57   anything it's completely disrupts our [TS]

00:06:59   conceptions of gender right and pronouns [TS]

00:07:02   and i love that I love that moment where [TS]

00:07:04   I'm like what is going on and then once [TS]

00:07:05   I figure out what's going to go [TS]

00:07:07   oh that's really clever it's really a [TS]

00:07:09   useful way and i love the world-building [TS]

00:07:10   it also does a colonialism which is like [TS]

00:07:13   my academic interest so I kind of [TS]

00:07:16   latched onto that like a leech it was [TS]

00:07:17   good [TS]

00:07:18   so yeah I mean overall i think it's it's [TS]

00:07:20   a really solid novel it's not a perfect [TS]

00:07:21   double but it's also a first novel and [TS]

00:07:23   it's this good for first novel is really [TS]

00:07:25   quite impressive [TS]

00:07:27   yeah that's the thing is the first novel [TS]

00:07:28   i read it and i just thought how can [TS]

00:07:30   this be i mean I imagine she's written a [TS]

00:07:31   lot of things that she you know she [TS]

00:07:34   never got published never thought were [TS]

00:07:36   good enough by but I mean good god it is [TS]

00:07:39   so accomplished for first novel amazing [TS]

00:07:42   yeah Fred what do you think I enjoyed it [TS]

00:07:46   as well and I experience to both as an [TS]

00:07:49   e-book and an audiobook and one thing [TS]

00:07:51   that I pointed out earlier another [TS]

00:07:54   podcast that ball was on with that the [TS]

00:07:57   experience of listening to it gave me a [TS]

00:08:00   different perspective of the characters [TS]

00:08:01   than the experience of reading it so for [TS]

00:08:05   anybody who is a member of the audible [TS]

00:08:08   order another service i would recommend [TS]

00:08:10   giving it a listen because the narrator [TS]

00:08:12   is quite good and it was an interesting [TS]

00:08:14   different experience one of the things i [TS]

00:08:17   we i am going to do my footnote now [TS]

00:08:19   episode 179 of the uncomfortable we [TS]

00:08:22   talked about it along with the lies of [TS]

00:08:25   locke lamora I Scott Lynch [TS]

00:08:27   ah the the it is space opera it is it's [TS]

00:08:33   got a lot of big ideas it's got some [TS]

00:08:35   very interesting things about about [TS]

00:08:37   colonialism I like how there's this kind [TS]

00:08:40   of question when when you're given [TS]

00:08:42   Layton Layton the book this decision [TS]

00:08:43   between sort of a choice between two [TS]

00:08:45   sides in this is Keller Empire it's not [TS]

00:08:50   a good guys and the bad guys it's sort [TS]

00:08:52   of like [TS]

00:08:52   you know one set of guys and another set [TS]

00:08:56   of really no bad guys but the other guys [TS]

00:08:58   are particularly good the gender issues [TS]

00:09:01   are off also very interesting as as as [TS]

00:09:03   we mentioned earlier and that i will say [TS]

00:09:06   it reminded me and I don't know why I [TS]

00:09:08   keep saying this but it reminded me sort [TS]

00:09:10   of the feeling I got when I read the [TS]

00:09:12   left hand of darkness by ursula leguin [TS]

00:09:14   it was it was new it it it like the the [TS]

00:09:17   cold planet it starts on reminded me of [TS]

00:09:20   like win and and left hand of darkness [TS]

00:09:22   and the all of the kind of we're going [TS]

00:09:25   to question your issues about who these [TS]

00:09:27   people are and about gender & about [TS]

00:09:28   their and and about identity and it [TS]

00:09:31   brought that back it was that it was [TS]

00:09:33   that was the book that it reminded me [TS]

00:09:34   the most of the three or thurs i was [TS]

00:09:36   most reminded of what were look when but [TS]

00:09:39   also john varley especially these things [TS]

00:09:41   like the old fiocchi hotline which you [TS]

00:09:43   wrote in the late seventies uh-huh and [TS]

00:09:47   then in banks any number of the culture [TS]

00:09:50   books [TS]

00:09:51   oh yeah yeah very much very much like [TS]

00:09:53   banks yeah [TS]

00:09:54   yep you like any of those authors i [TS]

00:09:56   would recommend this one highly so i got [TS]

00:09:58   i got to assume that even though and [TS]

00:09:59   like he is a is a first-time novelist [TS]

00:10:01   that you knew I gotta assume she's the [TS]

00:10:03   favorite for the hugo at this point [TS]

00:10:05   should night just because she's won [TS]

00:10:07   everything else or or is the the [TS]

00:10:08   presence of the wheel of time on the [TS]

00:10:10   hugo ballad looming fit presence will [TS]

00:10:14   the wheel of time knock out the street [TS]

00:10:16   puppies and vice versa [TS]

00:10:18   mm that's a possibility at Endor but not [TS]

00:10:21   putting stuff into the packet8 this I [TS]

00:10:24   don't know what to read for this hugo [TS]

00:10:27   balance focus is going to win this so [TS]

00:10:29   much politics and cross-purposes going [TS]

00:10:33   on by you I don't know what's gonna rise [TS]

00:10:36   to the top [TS]

00:10:36   anything could happen it would look like [TS]

00:10:38   in a normal if you're looking normal [TS]

00:10:40   momentum it would look like ancillary [TS]

00:10:42   justice we had to be the favorite just [TS]

00:10:43   because it has won all these other major [TS]

00:10:45   awards but we we who knows i think [TS]

00:10:47   answer justice is is the favorite in in [TS]

00:10:50   terms of what is there on the ballot but [TS]

00:10:53   the voting process is going to be the [TS]

00:10:55   thing that's going to determine what [TS]

00:10:56   happens because it could be that the as [TS]

00:10:58   fred was pointing out this sad puppy [TS]

00:11:01   ballot could be the thing that like they [TS]

00:11:03   just mobilize really efficiently and [TS]

00:11:05   somehow [TS]

00:11:05   get enough votes in or it could be the [TS]

00:11:08   same thing for wheel of time if the the [TS]

00:11:09   people who voted that into be on the [TS]

00:11:11   ballot the first place if they get [TS]

00:11:12   enough people to vote for that or it [TS]

00:11:14   could be the orbit thing could knock [TS]

00:11:15   some of them out [TS]

00:11:17   I i suspect answer justice is still [TS]

00:11:19   going to take it and I would be very [TS]

00:11:21   surprised if it didn't because I don't [TS]

00:11:23   think we love time is gonna eat and [TS]

00:11:25   nobody's gonna read the whole downtown [TS]

00:11:27   and it's not gonna happen i'm not i'm [TS]

00:11:29   not gonna make it i'm sorry it's like we [TS]

00:11:32   have the vote and when we have the vote [TS]

00:11:33   like in two months [TS]

00:11:35   yeah somebody up yeah not gonna happen [TS]

00:11:37   this is no but it comes up from [TS]

00:11:40   everybody here for ancillary justice I [TS]

00:11:41   mean it's really good and if you like [TS]

00:11:43   space opera and if you like in banks and [TS]

00:11:44   if you like the left hand of darkness so [TS]

00:11:46   I mean there's so many different things [TS]

00:11:47   like if you like do you like books that [TS]

00:11:49   are did a really good because the [TS]

00:11:50   ancillary justice is really good [TS]

00:11:52   absolutely alright everybody Scott [TS]

00:11:55   anything to say you already endorsed [TS]

00:11:56   this like 10 times on this podcast i did [TS]

00:11:59   i said all I need to say about wrestler [TS]

00:12:00   just it's good good book [TS]

00:12:03   I let's move on to another nominee we [TS]

00:12:07   are all completely beside ourselves by [TS]

00:12:09   care enjoy fattler this is a book again [TS]

00:12:14   I don't want to spoil too much its [TS]

00:12:15   territory Fowler is a science fiction [TS]

00:12:18   writer i would argue that this is not in [TS]

00:12:22   any way a science-fiction book this is [TS]

00:12:26   the book that maybe think let me look at [TS]

00:12:28   the rules of the negative two which i [TS]

00:12:32   found out that though the navel is [TS]

00:12:34   awarded to the year's best science [TS]

00:12:35   fiction or fantasy book they do not [TS]

00:12:37   define what science fiction or fantasy [TS]

00:12:38   is so when up there said their science [TS]

00:12:42   in it there is science it is a book it [TS]

00:12:45   is a book of fiction that feature [TS]

00:12:47   science so it is science fiction and [TS]

00:12:50   it's uh a woman narrates this story of [TS]

00:12:53   her life and her upbringing and she's [TS]

00:12:57   being raised in an environment where her [TS]

00:12:59   upbringing is essentially part of a [TS]

00:13:01   scientific experiment and it has an [TS]

00:13:04   impact on her life and her siblings and [TS]

00:13:06   her family and you know I thought this [TS]

00:13:10   was beautiful i loved it i recommended [TS]

00:13:14   to my wife and then she read it i [TS]

00:13:16   thought you know it's sad and [TS]

00:13:17   happy and funny and sad again uh but [TS]

00:13:21   it's not but it's not science fiction so [TS]

00:13:23   if i were a nebula voter or fitted made [TS]

00:13:25   for Hugo's i don't think i would have [TS]

00:13:27   ranked particularly highly even though I [TS]

00:13:29   I'll i really liked it I liked it it was [TS]

00:13:32   one of the it certainly in the top half [TS]

00:13:35   of the of of my enjoyment of the nebula [TS]

00:13:38   nominees that i read but I i am kind of [TS]

00:13:41   stopped by the fact that you know [TS]

00:13:44   although it's a i think a good novel and [TS]

00:13:46   I liked it a lot it's also not science [TS]

00:13:47   fiction [TS]

00:13:48   well as it's speculative fiction doesn't [TS]

00:13:51   mean you said that it has scientific [TS]

00:13:53   elements so now it seems like it could [TS]

00:13:56   be real but it's not right so it's hard [TS]

00:13:59   to talk about this book without spoiling [TS]

00:14:01   a central point of it although the cover [TS]

00:14:04   art sort of spoils that but it does but [TS]

00:14:07   it'sit's yeah so I mean there are there [TS]

00:14:10   primate I mean they're primate [TS]

00:14:11   experiments in the book and and there's [TS]

00:14:13   a question is sort of like these the [TS]

00:14:15   proud the primates are okay I'm gonna [TS]

00:14:17   fire off a really quiet spoiler or in [TS]

00:14:19   here and then you can come back in like [TS]

00:14:21   two minutes and we'll we'll probably be [TS]

00:14:23   done [TS]

00:14:28   she's raised with a chimpanzee as her [TS]

00:14:31   sister and that has a huge impact on her [TS]

00:14:33   life [TS]

00:14:34   the narrator's life and her brother's [TS]

00:14:36   life and her parents life and you know [TS]

00:14:40   and so that I think those sorts of [TS]

00:14:42   experiments actually happened so it [TS]

00:14:43   seems fictional but it doesn't seem [TS]

00:14:45   outside the realm of something that just [TS]

00:14:48   actually happened in history so I'm not [TS]

00:14:49   quite sure it's anymore it's much more [TS]

00:14:51   speculative than any other kind of [TS]

00:14:53   fiction [TS]

00:14:54   well this could be mean it sounds like a [TS]

00:14:57   slightly more conventional book than [TS]

00:15:01   what Roger McBride Allen did once where [TS]

00:15:04   he had Neanderthals but it sounds like a [TS]

00:15:07   better version then what a a certain [TS]

00:15:09   michael crichton did once with congo [TS]

00:15:11   that's a good example [TS]

00:15:14   yeah i was thinking of that fried yeah [TS]

00:15:15   those are all this book is to compare me [TS]

00:15:19   this book to those books in like trying [TS]

00:15:21   to make it science fiction if you read [TS]

00:15:23   the book you you it is not science [TS]

00:15:26   fiction in any way shape or mean I mean [TS]

00:15:30   it's a really good book i liked it she [TS]

00:15:32   plays she does a lot of things with [TS]

00:15:33   because the the central character of the [TS]

00:15:35   book has this traumatic experience that [TS]

00:15:38   kind of really reverberates across her [TS]

00:15:41   life and she questions her own memories [TS]

00:15:43   and you don't know if you can rely on [TS]

00:15:45   what she's telling you and she has this [TS]

00:15:47   kind of weird relationship with her [TS]

00:15:49   brother and her parents and you know she [TS]

00:15:51   grew up with a chimpanzee and it's it's [TS]

00:15:54   it's a wonderful book but it is not [TS]

00:15:56   science fiction and it's not like you [TS]

00:16:00   know it isn't like the Congo or [TS]

00:16:02   reanimated in the other followers [TS]

00:16:05   it's like it's like Saul stuff that [TS]

00:16:06   basically has has happened in some form [TS]

00:16:10   so it's remix and kind of historical [TS]

00:16:11   events I don't know they did it's a good [TS]

00:16:13   question what do we do we define science [TS]

00:16:15   fiction regardless of whether it's [TS]

00:16:16   science fiction or not those I don't [TS]

00:16:19   know which of you guys read it but speak [TS]

00:16:22   up and what do you think of it as a [TS]

00:16:24   novel because I really did enjoy it i [TS]

00:16:25   just i I just didn't it was a little [TS]

00:16:27   baffled about while I was on the list [TS]

00:16:29   i I didn't read it but listening to the [TS]

00:16:31   discussion maybe think of your not that [TS]

00:16:33   it's directly related but the the [TS]

00:16:35   william gibson books that came later in [TS]

00:16:38   his life the weird ones with the [TS]

00:16:41   country Padraig action yeah those books [TS]

00:16:44   out which in some cases are are so like [TS]

00:16:48   our present that it's kind of hard to [TS]

00:16:49   disentangle them as speculative so that [TS]

00:16:53   indicates that that's all the last thing [TS]

00:16:55   I had to say on that because this is one [TS]

00:16:56   of the ones I was not able to get to [TS]

00:16:57   know I think I even the gibson i love [TS]

00:17:00   that I love those though that recent the [TS]

00:17:02   recent trilogy from Gibson but even they [TS]

00:17:05   are getting feel like he's he's pushing [TS]

00:17:07   it it's like like Max Headroom it's 20 [TS]

00:17:10   minutes into the future it's like [TS]

00:17:11   there's just something in it that is not [TS]

00:17:14   it you know that like that like in the [TS]

00:17:16   first one there's the the the footage in [TS]

00:17:19   there are people putting together the [TS]

00:17:20   footage in Russia somewhere and all that [TS]

00:17:22   it's it's almost today but it's not [TS]

00:17:25   quite and this feels completely like [TS]

00:17:28   yeah this all could have happened and it [TS]

00:17:30   seems very mainstream novel to me but [TS]

00:17:32   it's excellent [TS]

00:17:33   you know many people that were raised by [TS]

00:17:35   chips are not many but I i believe that [TS]

00:17:38   i believe it actually have I I just all [TS]

00:17:40   of our radiolab story where they were [TS]

00:17:43   talking about a chimpanzee where they [TS]

00:17:45   tried to race chimpanzee as human and [TS]

00:17:48   that worked for a while and then things [TS]

00:17:50   went horribly wrong you know [TS]

00:17:51   so in the end when I heard about this [TS]

00:17:53   book i read in our service like it feels [TS]

00:17:55   the radiolab story and didn't feel very [TS]

00:17:57   SF well to me and so I didn't go ahead [TS]

00:18:01   and read it because I thought I i think [TS]

00:18:03   i know this story's was thinking at the [TS]

00:18:05   time and just put it off i would [TS]

00:18:08   recommend it to people i think it I [TS]

00:18:09   think it's a very good book but don't go [TS]

00:18:11   in expecting that there's going to be [TS]

00:18:12   the secret twist is that she was [TS]

00:18:14   implanted with with primate DNA and is I [TS]

00:18:17   mean none of that is it's just a it's [TS]

00:18:20   just like a memoir of somebody who lived [TS]

00:18:22   through a very strange childhood where [TS]

00:18:24   her scientists parents made her [TS]

00:18:28   childhood part of their experiment had a [TS]

00:18:30   deep impact on her and the rest of her [TS]

00:18:31   family and as that it's beautifully [TS]

00:18:34   written it really is you know Scott [TS]

00:18:36   would you great just really nice book he [TS]

00:18:38   i was about to say that it was [TS]

00:18:40   beautifully written so you you took the [TS]

00:18:41   words right out of my mouth I was it is [TS]

00:18:43   a fantastic book if you only are [TS]

00:18:44   interested in you know sci-fi/fantasy [TS]

00:18:46   you should probably skip this book but [TS]

00:18:48   it is a great book i enjoyed it very [TS]

00:18:51   much [TS]

00:18:52   yeah I I don't inflict many of the books [TS]

00:18:54   that i read on my wife and this one was [TS]

00:18:56   like you should read this you should [TS]

00:18:57   read this next it's it's that good and [TS]

00:18:59   she did and she liked a lot so and and [TS]

00:19:02   that that's yeah okay so we are all [TS]

00:19:05   completely beside ourselves by karen joy [TS]

00:19:06   fowler highly recommended by me and [TS]

00:19:08   Scott not science fiction really but but [TS]

00:19:11   she's science fiction writer the [TS]

00:19:12   science-fiction writers of america know [TS]

00:19:14   her and they nominated her book because [TS]

00:19:16   it's good and I can't blame them for [TS]

00:19:17   that like it is it's a good book a test [TS]

00:19:19   sites it and I just have scientist [TS]

00:19:21   fiction I let's move on to the ocean at [TS]

00:19:25   the end of the lane much has been said [TS]

00:19:26   about this we did episode 155 of the [TS]

00:19:30   incomparable about it [TS]

00:19:31   neil gaiman shockingly not nominated for [TS]

00:19:34   the hugo I nominated him but I nothing i [TS]

00:19:38   nominate ever gets nominated so I and I [TS]

00:19:41   so you can refer to that episode and [TS]

00:19:44   Scott my are Scott wasn't on that [TS]

00:19:46   episode Scott did you ever read this [TS]

00:19:48   book I when you were doing that episode [TS]

00:19:51   I refused to read it but i have in fact [TS]

00:19:54   red home [TS]

00:19:55   well mostly because I I I refused to [TS]

00:19:59   read it mostly because of under the [TS]

00:20:01   hated things about people who annoy me [TS]

00:20:04   but for the book itself was the life for [TS]

00:20:08   ya I i mean i think it was beautiful [TS]

00:20:12   I'm really nice enjoyable story [TS]

00:20:16   what do you guys think Fred what do you [TS]

00:20:18   read this one [TS]

00:20:19   I in fact read twice my december january [TS]

00:20:22   me at if um Stardust was his homage to [TS]

00:20:28   Lord Dunsany I thought this one was more [TS]

00:20:29   like a no Maj to mr james everybody's [TS]

00:20:32   have read him you kind of have a pretty [TS]

00:20:35   normal background with something not [TS]

00:20:39   quite right going on at the edges and [TS]

00:20:42   the edges get closer and closer towards [TS]

00:20:44   the center we need seems to be pretty [TS]

00:20:47   autobiographical except when it gets [TS]

00:20:49   really strange which is interesting [TS]

00:20:51   because you know what he worked into the [TS]

00:20:53   story short i enjoy enjoy a short book [TS]

00:20:57   rather than a big fat book every now and [TS]

00:20:59   then and very economical [TS]

00:21:02   I agree it's gets right to the point and [TS]

00:21:05   scares the heck out of him some points [TS]

00:21:07   Sean you read this one yeah this is one [TS]

00:21:10   actually finished today while and I i [TS]

00:21:12   would agree with Fred one of the very [TS]

00:21:14   first things I noticed about this book [TS]

00:21:15   is I stop them to me and said to myself [TS]

00:21:18   this feels very autobiographical not [TS]

00:21:20   knowing enough about gaming myself to [TS]

00:21:22   actually like say that with any other [TS]

00:21:24   and you know authority but it it seemed [TS]

00:21:27   like it was very much dealing with his [TS]

00:21:28   own childhood and then obviously as it [TS]

00:21:30   goes on it becomes increasingly strange [TS]

00:21:33   or you know in the sort of game in way [TS]

00:21:35   that things that are kind of dark and [TS]

00:21:38   mysterious and like even even the the [TS]

00:21:41   little family that that's at the ocean [TS]

00:21:44   at the end of the line they even though [TS]

00:21:47   they're kind of I guess the good guys [TS]

00:21:49   there's always this weird unsettled [TS]

00:21:52   feeling about them throughout the whole [TS]

00:21:54   thing and then that never really goes [TS]

00:21:57   away even in the final chapter I think [TS]

00:21:59   that's very much stays there and I think [TS]

00:22:01   that's something that's very familiar [TS]

00:22:03   for gaming fans and a lot of his work [TS]

00:22:04   even start Stardust has a lot of that [TS]

00:22:06   feeling I think throughout much fun [TS]

00:22:08   starts happens to be my favorite game [TS]

00:22:10   and novels so but i like this one quite [TS]

00:22:12   a bit [TS]

00:22:13   I didn't think it was his best book but [TS]

00:22:14   that's because Stardust remains my [TS]

00:22:16   favorite and that's first completely [TS]

00:22:18   sentimental silly reasons so yeah I [TS]

00:22:21   really like american gods and i don't i [TS]

00:22:23   don't think i would put this over that [TS]

00:22:24   but I I liked it a lot you're right it [TS]

00:22:26   feels the when you started you are [TS]

00:22:28   wondering to yourself if you're reading [TS]

00:22:30   of a memoir and you get the feeling that [TS]

00:22:32   he must have poured some of his his [TS]

00:22:34   childhood into this the bit with the car [TS]

00:22:36   actually happened to him and his family [TS]

00:22:38   really I did I think I didn't pick up on [TS]

00:22:41   that yeah i read this i read this too I [TS]

00:22:44   did it did feel very much like he was [TS]

00:22:46   pouring out some of his childhood into [TS]

00:22:49   this novel felt like a a fairytale [TS]

00:22:52   version of events of his of his [TS]

00:22:55   childhood it it was it feels like the [TS]

00:22:57   anti-american god save you mentioned [TS]

00:22:59   about government as far as it's very [TS]

00:23:01   spare it's very sure it's very compact I [TS]

00:23:05   i devoutly i devoured this quickly [TS]

00:23:07   during my up during my up plane rides [TS]

00:23:10   this last just last weekend so it's just [TS]

00:23:13   it's just flew right by in the middle [TS]

00:23:15   middle play [TS]

00:23:16   and the next thing i know it's god it's [TS]

00:23:18   over like well is it if if III when we [TS]

00:23:23   were doing i need to read it again like [TS]

00:23:25   friended maybe I can soak into it more [TS]

00:23:28   maybe I great almost too fast and I [TS]

00:23:30   didn't quite realize just how short and [TS]

00:23:32   compact it really was but it's I do [TS]

00:23:36   think he's getting better as a writer I [TS]

00:23:38   i I've heard that's we're still waiting [TS]

00:23:41   for the perfect game and novel I don't [TS]

00:23:43   think this is it either but i guess we [TS]

00:23:45   guess he keeps circling or triangulating [TS]

00:23:48   looking for his masterwork if American [TS]

00:23:51   guys is that I don't know what it will [TS]

00:23:53   be [TS]

00:23:54   maybe there's some just a perfect game [TS]

00:23:56   in novel for everybody and he just keeps [TS]

00:23:58   hitting near the bullseye [TS]

00:24:01   no I suspect that his his greatest work [TS]

00:24:04   is going to be Sandman yeah [TS]

00:24:06   regardless of what he had what else he's [TS]

00:24:08   doing that seems to be the work that [TS]

00:24:10   everybody thinks his greatest [TS]

00:24:11   achievement [TS]

00:24:12   although you know he he he seems to not [TS]

00:24:15   be satisfied with writing the same novel [TS]

00:24:18   over and over again because American [TS]

00:24:20   Gods hits a spot in me that the [TS]

00:24:23   graveyard book which i also really [TS]

00:24:24   enjoyed it does doesn't it hits a [TS]

00:24:27   different spot and this book feels very [TS]

00:24:29   different to me so even though they're [TS]

00:24:30   all kind of game any I do feel like he [TS]

00:24:33   is really reluctant to go just [TS]

00:24:36   completely back and do another book like [TS]

00:24:38   that one and well you know let's let's [TS]

00:24:39   do american gods again I feel like he [TS]

00:24:42   doesn't wanna push himself a little bit [TS]

00:24:44   and maybe that's why you know we're [TS]

00:24:47   still wondering what the ultimate neil [TS]

00:24:49   gaiman book is yeah [TS]

00:24:51   american gods two electric boogaloo yeah [TS]

00:24:54   it was like a Nancy boys is sort of [TS]

00:24:56   american gods to but it's not like [TS]

00:24:58   american gods really at all know very [TS]

00:25:01   very different up I didn't also like [TS]

00:25:04   that this book did some interesting [TS]

00:25:06   things with its horror elements that it [TS]

00:25:08   didn't stick with what could have been a [TS]

00:25:10   simple choice which is the supernatural [TS]

00:25:12   horror but it actually chose I guess [TS]

00:25:14   what you'd say like a family holds [TS]

00:25:16   familial Hornets exactly exactly exactly [TS]

00:25:19   it does that really well I mean there's [TS]

00:25:21   and i'm not going to say what the scene [TS]

00:25:22   is because we all know the scene when [TS]

00:25:24   boy and family and bad things and that [TS]

00:25:28   particular moment and [TS]

00:25:29   I wish he had dealt more with it later [TS]

00:25:31   on but there's a sort of is explained in [TS]

00:25:33   the final chapter why it's not but that [TS]

00:25:36   moment was like I had to stop for and [TS]

00:25:38   have like a break because I was like [TS]

00:25:40   what is going on right now because this [TS]

00:25:42   is insane and it's horrifying that's [TS]

00:25:45   even more horrifying than any of the [TS]

00:25:46   supernatural creatures i feel is that [TS]

00:25:48   moment we talk about when we talk about [TS]

00:25:51   this being autobiographical I think it's [TS]

00:25:54   telling in a way that the true horror in [TS]

00:25:56   this story is horror of things that [TS]

00:25:58   happen in the family horror that tears [TS]

00:26:00   the family apart being betrayed or or [TS]

00:26:03   thinking less of members of your family [TS]

00:26:05   because of things that they did that are [TS]

00:26:07   unfortunate and/or terrible fear of [TS]

00:26:10   members of your family i think that I [TS]

00:26:12   you know again not knowing neil gaiman [TS]

00:26:14   his life and not trying to psychoanalyze [TS]

00:26:16   him entirely through this work although [TS]

00:26:18   it's so tempting it I I feel like that's [TS]

00:26:21   really interesting that this comes from [TS]

00:26:23   a personal place this isn't some crazy [TS]

00:26:25   supernatural world inflicting horror on [TS]

00:26:27   you it's it's terrible things happening [TS]

00:26:30   to two or more caused by members of your [TS]

00:26:33   family really hits closer to home I [TS]

00:26:36   think boy yeah you don't even need to [TS]

00:26:38   say what seen it is anybody who's read [TS]

00:26:39   that book knows exactly what you're [TS]

00:26:40   talking about [TS]

00:26:42   hey I don't know if anyone has read [TS]

00:26:44   enough game to know whether this is the [TS]

00:26:46   first time he's dealt with [TS]

00:26:47   family-related abuse issues that's i'm [TS]

00:26:51   using that term like the most Vegas [TS]

00:26:52   sense i don't give anything away because [TS]

00:26:54   i don't recall if he has but i haven't [TS]

00:26:55   read everything by him i haven't read [TS]

00:26:59   anything by him either i feel like he [TS]

00:27:00   must have touched on these issues I mean [TS]

00:27:02   there's some stuff in Sandman even the [TS]

00:27:03   stuff of Sandman that I've read that I [TS]

00:27:05   feel is sort of like that to a little [TS]

00:27:07   bit but this is it just it seems so [TS]

00:27:09   personal and you're set up to feel it [TS]

00:27:11   being personal from those first few [TS]

00:27:13   chapters that seemed autobiographical [TS]

00:27:15   that I'm the whole that's part of the [TS]

00:27:17   trick to it is that is that he makes the [TS]

00:27:20   the whole betrayal all the terrible [TS]

00:27:22   things that happened feel personal [TS]

00:27:24   because it starts so personal [TS]

00:27:26   yeah absolutely i totally agree yeah [TS]

00:27:29   that more talk about this book the more [TS]

00:27:31   like it and more unsettled i become [TS]

00:27:34   because I start remembering things at [TS]

00:27:35   the details [TS]

00:27:36   it's really it's really unsettling book [TS]

00:27:38   i really recommend that if you've never [TS]

00:27:39   read a game and novel try this one it [TS]

00:27:42   too creepy oh well maybe not if you get [TS]

00:27:44   creeped out too easy i think it's odd [TS]

00:27:46   but I think it's gentle in another way I [TS]

00:27:48   mean some horrible things happen and yet [TS]

00:27:49   some of it i feel i feel is is kind of [TS]

00:27:52   gentleman and his game a novel schoo [TS]

00:27:55   also there are cats [TS]

00:27:58   yes really awesome cat is like cats [TS]

00:28:00   they're they're cats get sad sad things [TS]

00:28:03   about cats happy things about cats [TS]

00:28:05   all good things about cats are being [TS]

00:28:08   nebulous on this nebula podcast yes it's [TS]

00:28:11   the nebulous awards that we will win for [TS]

00:28:13   trying to spoil everything that happens [TS]

00:28:16   in all these novels [TS]

00:28:17   okay so everybody's going to kind of [TS]

00:28:19   give a pass to the ocean at the end of [TS]

00:28:21   the lane it sounds like yeah even Scott [TS]

00:28:25   who didn't want to read it I didn't want [TS]

00:28:29   to read but i did and it was nice [TS]

00:28:30   yeah he's a good writer I mean me [TS]

00:28:32   divorced from his his PR and his wife's [TS]

00:28:35   PR and all of that he's a really good [TS]

00:28:39   writer he really is mr. alright next [TS]

00:28:42   nice guy too [TS]

00:28:43   yeah I follow him on twitter and it's [TS]

00:28:44   one of those things that you shouldn't [TS]

00:28:45   follow writers you really like on [TS]

00:28:47   Twitter or get to know them too well [TS]

00:28:48   because you're worried that you [TS]

00:28:50   discovered that they're horrible people [TS]

00:28:51   but he does seem like an actually [TS]

00:28:52   genuinely nice guy [TS]

00:28:54   yeah let's move on to fire with fire by [TS]

00:29:00   charles ii Gannon this is a server I'm [TS]

00:29:07   trying I'm trying to keep the the more [TS]

00:29:08   military-themed stories separate this is [TS]

00:29:11   this is an interesting book because I [TS]

00:29:13   felt like there was sort of a couple [TS]

00:29:14   different books in here this is sort of [TS]

00:29:16   a book that starts out being a there's [TS]

00:29:19   like a guy on a it's like there's like a [TS]

00:29:22   guy with four oh my god there's so much [TS]

00:29:24   in here is like a guy on the moon and [TS]

00:29:27   he's and then he wakes up and he's on a [TS]

00:29:29   spaceship and it's like 13 years later [TS]

00:29:31   he's an investigative reporter [TS]

00:29:33   yeah and it could be like you could say [TS]

00:29:34   this is a spy novel yeah exceptexcept [TS]

00:29:37   there's a gear shift in the mail right [TS]

00:29:38   because I feeling was a couple of gear [TS]

00:29:40   shift the first half of the novel i feel [TS]

00:29:42   like is a sort of like there's this guy [TS]

00:29:44   and and some weird things happen and so [TS]

00:29:46   he sorted out of time a little bit but [TS]

00:29:48   he's investigating something that's [TS]

00:29:50   going on and and it there's this sort of [TS]

00:29:52   spy element of you know I'm done on this [TS]

00:29:55   planet and what's going on and trying to [TS]

00:29:57   mislead me and maybe there are aliens [TS]

00:29:59   down here but we don't really know if [TS]

00:30:00   they're aliens down here i'm gonna [TS]

00:30:02   figure it out and it's a little Indiana [TS]

00:30:04   Jones like and I thought all right I get [TS]

00:30:06   what this book is gonna be and then like [TS]

00:30:09   that you again and then it's what would [TS]

00:30:13   it would it be like if you were [TS]

00:30:14   negotiating with aliens about joining [TS]

00:30:16   their star Federation just like wow [TS]

00:30:19   that's just totally different book but [TS]

00:30:21   the book that I expected and so you know [TS]

00:30:24   it's it's a very interesting book it's [TS]

00:30:26   like several books and one hehe he has [TS]

00:30:30   co-written some stuff with Steve white [TS]

00:30:32   setting the Starfire series which based [TS]

00:30:35   on a a board game he worked for game [TS]

00:30:39   designers workshop on traveler and 2300 [TS]

00:30:41   ad which was a role-playing game in the [TS]

00:30:44   eighties nineties and this feels very [TS]

00:30:46   much like 2308 including some of the [TS]

00:30:49   same stars are used in the game in this [TS]

00:30:51   book was like oh yeah and you're a [TS]

00:30:55   friend of mine is talking arised in this [TS]

00:30:56   which was really amusing the without [TS]

00:31:00   saying anything [TS]

00:31:00   the the ill-fated lieutenant we've upon [TS]

00:31:03   a certain ship in the asteroid belt is a [TS]

00:31:06   friend of mine huh [TS]

00:31:09   it's nice yeah as with so many bein cut [TS]

00:31:12   books the cover is kind of embarrassing [TS]

00:31:14   like this is this book it's like a guy [TS]

00:31:18   in a little bubble ship firing and at [TS]

00:31:22   things and that governs really i'm not [TS]

00:31:24   quite sure what that cover is supposed [TS]

00:31:27   to be but in all fairness it's not the [TS]

00:31:30   worse it's really not in the picture I [TS]

00:31:35   mean it looks he looks kind of like a [TS]

00:31:37   real person he doesn't look like they [TS]

00:31:40   used some sort of like weird cg clipart [TS]

00:31:44   that they got her like a dollar so you [TS]

00:31:47   know i'll give them props friend and not [TS]

00:31:50   an o schedule a cat clad women like on [TS]

00:31:52   the dominant cleanser not books all guys [TS]

00:31:56   are terrible yeah it's not that not the [TS]

00:31:59   best not the best cover but yeah your [TS]

00:32:00   report you're right it's probably not [TS]

00:32:01   the worst [TS]

00:32:02   so what did what did people so like I [TS]

00:32:04   said it it struck me as being a very [TS]

00:32:06   different kind of [TS]

00:32:07   there's a right-hand turn in the middle [TS]

00:32:09   of this book was like wow okay and i [TS]

00:32:12   liked both of the kind of book it was I [TS]

00:32:14   like the I like the art who these aliens [TS]

00:32:17   there's a mystery there there's an [TS]

00:32:18   unresolved mystery which did kind of bug [TS]

00:32:20   me where it's like well will you know [TS]

00:32:22   you could probably figure this out [TS]

00:32:24   read the next book and you'll find out [TS]

00:32:26   more but then the right-hand turn to the [TS]

00:32:27   other thing I was like all right now [TS]

00:32:28   we're in this side of politics and [TS]

00:32:30   negotiation and learning about who these [TS]

00:32:32   aliens are and how they how they get [TS]

00:32:34   along and and I thought that or don't [TS]

00:32:36   get along as the case may be there isn't [TS]

00:32:39   nice to be invited to a club and then [TS]

00:32:42   discover when when you're at your first [TS]

00:32:43   meeting that everybody in the club hate [TS]

00:32:45   each other [TS]

00:32:45   essentially the the message here because [TS]

00:32:48   the aliens are not also it's not like [TS]

00:32:50   they're joining hands and sing Kumbaya [TS]

00:32:52   this is not that kind of there's a lot [TS]

00:32:54   of politics going on [TS]

00:32:55   so what everybody else does everybody [TS]

00:32:57   else think Scott what do you think I i [TS]

00:33:00   enjoyed it i thought it was fun i did [TS]

00:33:04   have trouble with the main character and [TS]

00:33:05   with the the main female characters [TS]

00:33:08   relationship [TS]

00:33:09   the main character is like Cain Reardon [TS]

00:33:13   he's good at and fleece could everything [TS]

00:33:15   that's right he could solve all our [TS]

00:33:16   problems because he's he's good at [TS]

00:33:18   everything [TS]

00:33:19   don't don't question his methods he's [TS]

00:33:21   good he's good he's not great at being a [TS]

00:33:23   spy he'll learn but he's good at [TS]

00:33:24   everything else that's right we could [TS]

00:33:27   teach him have a spy but we can't teach [TS]

00:33:29   you how to think like him so I thought [TS]

00:33:33   that was a bit much and then they have [TS]

00:33:35   this strong [TS]

00:33:36   well what I thought might be a strong [TS]

00:33:38   female character who is also a drift in [TS]

00:33:40   time and she is a decorated military [TS]

00:33:43   officer supposed to be his bodyguard but [TS]

00:33:46   really her whole reason for being in the [TS]

00:33:48   book is that so he'll fall in love with [TS]

00:33:50   her and that they can then use their [TS]

00:33:53   relationship as kind of a pond to make [TS]

00:33:55   him continue to be a spy for the shadowy [TS]

00:33:57   organization which I thought was kind of [TS]

00:33:59   a missed opportunity with a female [TS]

00:34:01   character in this book [TS]

00:34:02   yeah there's a lot of III think [TS]

00:34:05   descriptions of the descriptions of the [TS]

00:34:07   women characters in the book are are [TS]

00:34:09   sometimes a little unfortunate where I [TS]

00:34:11   felt like it was very very kind of [TS]

00:34:12   old-school like she was a ravishing [TS]

00:34:16   beauty and let me describe her to you [TS]

00:34:18   and then he was you know so i think [TS]

00:34:20   that's fair [TS]

00:34:21   I think they're in the main character [TS]

00:34:22   definitely is like he's just mr.perfect [TS]

00:34:24   he's great he's literally he is good at [TS]

00:34:26   everything that's true what everybody [TS]

00:34:29   else think who read this book [TS]

00:34:31   Fred did you read this 1i i'm almost [TS]

00:34:34   done with it [TS]

00:34:35   alright well I mean yeah whatever [TS]

00:34:37   terrible long yeah I can protect you [TS]

00:34:39   guys at the end no many times in a in [TS]

00:34:41   this time when he pretended yes but I [TS]

00:34:45   mean I enjoyed the the hard science [TS]

00:34:47   fiction but this was the hard science [TS]

00:34:48   fiction entry for this year's crop and I [TS]

00:34:51   think he's setting up for a long series [TS]

00:34:53   and I like some of the NCS dropping so I [TS]

00:34:56   can see where it's going his military [TS]

00:34:59   stuff is pretty authentic arm and a [TS]

00:35:03   James P Hogan vibe at a couple points [TS]

00:35:06   yes that's I actually that i was going [TS]

00:35:09   to say that but I wasn't sure if anybody [TS]

00:35:11   else would remember him [TS]

00:35:12   I grew up and he lived in my town my [TS]

00:35:14   hometown actually hot [TS]

00:35:15   sonora california for many before you [TS]

00:35:17   got the crazy train right after you got [TS]

00:35:19   three it was I think he boarded the [TS]

00:35:21   crazy train while he was in Sonora but [TS]

00:35:23   uh but the it had an inherent the Stars [TS]

00:35:26   kind of feeling away because there's a [TS]

00:35:28   there's an impossible when he goes down [TS]

00:35:30   on the planet the beginning right [TS]

00:35:31   there's this sort of thing that is [TS]

00:35:32   they're presented that's like how is [TS]

00:35:35   this is impossible how could this be and [TS]

00:35:38   that that was a very much like inherit [TS]

00:35:40   the Stars where it's like I'm just gonna [TS]

00:35:42   I'm gonna mention something that's [TS]

00:35:43   impossible and you guys are gonna have [TS]

00:35:45   to start thinking with me about how I [TS]

00:35:47   might resolve this [TS]

00:35:49   this magic trick that I'm doing but even [TS]

00:35:51   part of that I was kind of like and I [TS]

00:35:53   don't really buy it but certain other [TS]

00:35:55   sequence shortly before that involving [TS]

00:35:58   another Android all all say was I [TS]

00:36:03   actually thought was well written was [TS]

00:36:05   kind of neat was like putting together [TS]

00:36:06   oh wait a minute [TS]

00:36:08   oh no that key oh Michael yes you know [TS]

00:36:10   like yeah I just thought that was a good [TS]

00:36:13   part yeah there's there's some really [TS]

00:36:14   nice kind of almost first contact first [TS]

00:36:16   ? contact stuff that is really creepy [TS]

00:36:20   and interesting and i love i love jack [TS]

00:36:24   mcdevitt is a is a i'm not sure i would [TS]

00:36:27   say guilty because I is a pleasure to [TS]

00:36:29   read i love those books there are a lot [TS]

00:36:30   of fun and I like the word on a planet [TS]

00:36:33   who knows if there are aliens here and [TS]

00:36:35   maybe there's a dead long-dead [TS]

00:36:36   civilization or maybe they're not [TS]

00:36:37   completely dead and and the mystery and [TS]

00:36:39   that kind of almost Indiana Jones kind [TS]

00:36:42   of feeling of exploration that's another [TS]

00:36:45   good comparison for this one who's that [TS]

00:36:47   the first part of the book feels like [TS]

00:36:48   that and then it then it goes in a very [TS]

00:36:50   different direction who I anybody else [TS]

00:36:53   read this one I just started it I didn't [TS]

00:36:56   really get that far into it now i do [TS]

00:36:58   want to continue reading especially [TS]

00:37:00   since we've had the these mild spoilers [TS]

00:37:02   i can I want to see where I want to see [TS]

00:37:04   worry goes but yeah I don't have enough [TS]

00:37:08   to really form o.a.r impression of it [TS]

00:37:10   yet [TS]

00:37:11   I'm not enough that i haven't put it [TS]

00:37:12   down which is John I unfortunately have [TS]

00:37:15   not read it although fred was explaining [TS]

00:37:17   to me earlier that the similarities but [TS]

00:37:19   she's already noted to traveler which [TS]

00:37:21   was a game that i bought a whole bunch [TS]

00:37:23   of books of when I was a teenager but [TS]

00:37:25   never got to play so I i do now want to [TS]

00:37:29   read it based on that that reference but [TS]

00:37:32   it is one unfortunately I didn't get to [TS]

00:37:33   I'd say it's almost like the first half [TS]

00:37:35   of the book is jack mcdevitt and the [TS]

00:37:37   second half is maybe david brin kind of [TS]

00:37:39   uplifting a little bit different also [TS]

00:37:43   not one of my favorite people in the [TS]

00:37:44   world but I love those uplift books and [TS]

00:37:47   it feels like that in the sense that you [TS]

00:37:50   its humanity discovering that the the [TS]

00:37:52   universe is a lot more complicated and [TS]

00:37:54   that they made they may not be you know [TS]

00:37:56   they may be it upon in someone else's [TS]

00:37:58   game or they may not and they have to [TS]

00:38:00   find their own way and there's a lot of [TS]

00:38:01   that kind of vibe happening in the [TS]

00:38:03   second half and yeah it was fun I I you [TS]

00:38:07   know if I had any any complaints beyond [TS]

00:38:09   the main character being perfect and [TS]

00:38:10   like Scott said the the the woman [TS]

00:38:13   character maybe not being having enough [TS]

00:38:15   of her own motivation for what she does [TS]

00:38:17   and it's the that their stuff that is [TS]

00:38:22   really teed up in terms of there are [TS]

00:38:24   some plot revelations about what they [TS]

00:38:26   find them at planet that are like [TS]

00:38:27   literally just never dealt with again [TS]

00:38:30   that that it's clear it's sort of like [TS]

00:38:31   we'll you know that's another book next [TS]

00:38:33   book will talk about why they found that [TS]

00:38:35   thing on that planet later but it was [TS]

00:38:39   fun [TS]

00:38:39   it's just weird because it's too it's [TS]

00:38:41   like two books in one it literally as if [TS]

00:38:43   you if you if you're not really enjoying [TS]

00:38:44   the first half just keep reading this [TS]

00:38:46   another book in there i probably will [TS]

00:38:49   not be reading the second book [TS]

00:38:51   yeah well it unless it gets nominated [TS]

00:38:52   for something I might I might depends [TS]

00:38:55   i'll see what people think of it but you [TS]

00:38:57   know it was it was a it was kind of fun [TS]

00:38:59   it was yeah it was definitely not one of [TS]

00:39:01   those that i picked up and I and when I [TS]

00:39:03   was done I I said boy can't believe that [TS]

00:39:05   book 2 is now yet I i believe the ark is [TS]

00:39:08   out I couldn't believe i have a copy [TS]

00:39:10   right i will be reading right so fire [TS]

00:39:14   with fire [TS]

00:39:15   I thought was yeah I was fine that was [TS]

00:39:16   fun and if any of those uh author names [TS]

00:39:20   that we rattled off their structure [TS]

00:39:22   right then you should give it a read [TS]

00:39:24   alright let's move on did anybody but [TS]

00:39:27   Scott Reed hill by nicola Griffith I did [TS]

00:39:30   not I did not all right Scott is all [TS]

00:39:33   like it's all on you I i bought i [TS]

00:39:35   actually bought it and Scott said don't [TS]

00:39:37   read it [TS]

00:39:38   don't worry well I mean it's a really [TS]

00:39:39   let me say this it's it's another [TS]

00:39:41   beautifully written book it's incredibly [TS]

00:39:43   long it is not science fiction or [TS]

00:39:46   fantasy in any shape or form other than [TS]

00:39:50   the fact that so it's set in a it's [TS]

00:39:54   about Hildebrand who's an actual [TS]

00:39:56   historical figure she was in I forget [TS]

00:39:59   the timeframe medieval times i'm [TS]

00:40:02   assuming don't like this 700 700 or [TS]

00:40:05   something like that [TS]

00:40:07   Hildegard von Bingen I believe I'm [TS]

00:40:10   saying held up wait [TS]

00:40:11   ok ok chart yes so she is viewed as a [TS]

00:40:18   seer by some the pita the king and her [TS]

00:40:21   mother setting up to to be viewed as [TS]

00:40:23   this year but she openly admits that she [TS]

00:40:25   has no mystical power she just observes [TS]

00:40:27   things that other people are things that [TS]

00:40:29   other people don't notice and then draws [TS]

00:40:32   logical conclusions based on the fact [TS]

00:40:34   that she's seen around her and then when [TS]

00:40:36   she's proven right people think that she [TS]

00:40:38   has mystical abilities but she does not [TS]

00:40:40   have any missile abilities and so it's [TS]

00:40:43   the story of her maybe like 10 years of [TS]

00:40:45   her life [TS]

00:40:47   it's beautifully written it is not [TS]

00:40:49   fantasy [TS]

00:40:50   it is historical fiction it's pretty [TS]

00:40:52   much straight historical fiction so [TS]

00:40:56   check it out if you want to read like an [TS]

00:40:57   800-page book that [TS]

00:40:59   its hilt was really good alright and on [TS]

00:41:03   page 801 of Connie Willis's [TS]

00:41:06   time-traveling people just steps through [TS]

00:41:08   a door and goes hey haha except in the [TS]

00:41:11   end [TS]

00:41:12   hey rube science fiction done i was this [TS]

00:41:16   was the other one that maybe we can look [TS]

00:41:18   at the rules ridiculous to figure out [TS]

00:41:21   why I mean based on if you're just [TS]

00:41:23   looking at how well it was written it's [TS]

00:41:25   clearly a nominee worthy but once again [TS]

00:41:29   it you're putting it into a science [TS]

00:41:31   fiction and fantasy award and I don't [TS]

00:41:33   know how it fits in the genre but it is [TS]

00:41:36   a novel and genre novel if his honor or [TS]

00:41:39   author righted says it's john or even if [TS]

00:41:41   it doesn't seem Joshua that seems to be [TS]

00:41:43   the question of this nebula value with [TS]

00:41:46   with with with this end with the Fowler [TS]

00:41:49   well these these clearly the nominees [TS]

00:41:51   the shortlist makers of the nebulas feel [TS]

00:41:54   that if you're us if you're in the [TS]

00:41:55   fraternity of being a science fiction [TS]

00:41:58   writer then and you're right things that [TS]

00:42:01   are good [TS]

00:42:02   you're eligible and that's fine I get it [TS]

00:42:04   it's just if you're looking for for [TS]

00:42:06   great new science fiction novels to read [TS]

00:42:08   you got to be careful because some of [TS]

00:42:10   these are you know maybe it's a good [TS]

00:42:11   trick like hey read something outside of [TS]

00:42:13   the genre that's fine but it you know [TS]

00:42:15   that this is a historical fiction novel [TS]

00:42:18   by somebody who's written science [TS]

00:42:19   fiction in the past you and probably [TS]

00:42:20   short works was also one that people say [TS]

00:42:24   why is the science fiction maybe wasn't [TS]

00:42:27   the one called springs one [TS]

00:42:28   yeah they add that that was even run on [TS]

00:42:31   tor.com but its larger and larger right [TS]

00:42:37   yeah the ending of that particular [TS]

00:42:39   novella is is I think close enough to [TS]

00:42:43   being weird and set that [TS]

00:42:47   yeah it you get to the end you go [TS]

00:42:48   there's like a weird moment where things [TS]

00:42:51   sort of become like a not quite real and [TS]

00:42:54   that's enough but it's very very low key [TS]

00:42:57   I mean I've got bad halfway through and [TS]

00:42:58   I'm like I really like this but where's [TS]

00:43:01   the syfy so because it seems like a [TS]

00:43:04   nostalgia peace until you get to the end [TS]

00:43:06   and then it's so nostalgic piece but [TS]

00:43:08   there's also this sort of weirdness [TS]

00:43:09   which I'm not gonna ruin because it's [TS]

00:43:11   actually a great novella [TS]

00:43:12   no right ok so that's held Scott gives [TS]

00:43:17   it a thumbs up for quality and points [TS]

00:43:19   out that is historical fiction if you'd [TS]

00:43:20   like to know about the 700 check it and [TS]

00:43:24   what we've i was looking at just a if i [TS]

00:43:27   was reading these books on just the [TS]

00:43:29   craft of writing Hilde should have one [TS]

00:43:31   not i don't i don't think it based on [TS]

00:43:35   the fact that this is a science fiction [TS]

00:43:36   fantasy award it should not be but time [TS]

00:43:40   to take a break for our sponsor our [TS]

00:43:43   sponsor this week is really exciting it [TS]

00:43:44   is a new trade paperback of a comic [TS]

00:43:47   called umbral is by anthony johnson and [TS]

00:43:50   Christopher mitten and anthony johnson [TS]

00:43:53   is an incomparable listener in addition [TS]

00:43:55   to being a comic book writer and he [TS]

00:43:57   writes a whole bunch of other stuff does [TS]

00:43:59   video game world building [TS]

00:44:00   umbro I i read the issue one when it [TS]

00:44:03   first came out i just read the trade [TS]

00:44:05   paperback it's the first thing these two [TS]

00:44:08   guys have created together since they [TS]

00:44:10   created the epic wasteland comic it is a [TS]

00:44:13   high-concept story it is sort of like [TS]

00:44:17   dark crystal meets saga they didn't [TS]

00:44:20   really designed it that way but that's [TS]

00:44:21   sort of how it turned out the art is [TS]

00:44:23   really unique it looks unlike anything [TS]

00:44:24   that's out there today really [TS]

00:44:27   interesting art and the colors are all [TS]

00:44:29   very cool it's got a really awesome [TS]

00:44:32   female main character and it's good for [TS]

00:44:36   I would say new and non comics readers [TS]

00:44:39   and the comic curious this is a you know [TS]

00:44:44   it sets you up with this sort of fantasy [TS]

00:44:46   story that you're expecting and then it [TS]

00:44:49   goes or at least I was expecting it goes [TS]

00:44:51   in a different direction and there's [TS]

00:44:52   some surprises and things that you are [TS]

00:44:54   yeah if you go in expecting it to be yet [TS]

00:44:57   another story that you've seen before [TS]

00:44:58   you will discover very rapidly that that [TS]

00:45:00   is not what you're going to get lots of [TS]

00:45:02   amazing world building goes on [TS]

00:45:05   anyway the trade paperback version [TS]

00:45:06   collecting the first few issues has just [TS]

00:45:09   committed 268 pages long so it's a [TS]

00:45:12   really large chunk of story [TS]

00:45:15   the same size as saga vol.1 actually and [TS]

00:45:19   only 999 it even has a map in it so you [TS]

00:45:22   can you know anybody who's read fantasy [TS]

00:45:24   stuff you have [TS]

00:45:25   map see what's happening in this and [TS]

00:45:27   this mythical land where this main [TS]

00:45:31   character [TS]

00:45:32   yeah she discovered some pretty horrific [TS]

00:45:34   creatures that are doing horrible things [TS]

00:45:36   and then she has a very interesting [TS]

00:45:38   adventure it's dark and weird and I [TS]

00:45:40   liked it and so there is a site that you [TS]

00:45:44   can go to go to the umbral dot-com th e [TS]

00:45:48   UMB ral the umbral dot-com and I the [TS]

00:45:54   digital version of issue one of em bro [TS]

00:45:56   is free on comixology and on image [TS]

00:45:59   comics his own site and then there is [TS]

00:46:02   the trade paperback 999 on sale now just [TS]

00:46:06   went on sale earlier this week you get [TS]

00:46:09   the complete vol 168 pages it's called [TS]

00:46:13   out of the shadows umbral umbr al [TS]

00:46:16   anthony johnson and comfortable listener [TS]

00:46:19   do my favorite check it out if you're [TS]

00:46:21   not sure [TS]

00:46:22   get the free issue 1 and then if you [TS]

00:46:24   liked it by the trade paperback so thank [TS]

00:46:26   you so much to anthony and two umbral [TS]

00:46:29   for sponsoring this episode of the [TS]

00:46:32   uncomfortable [TS]

00:46:33   let's talk about the red colon first [TS]

00:46:37   light by linda nagata which i believe is [TS]

00:46:41   essentially a self-published novel the [TS]

00:46:44   denominator is pretty cool and she's [TS]

00:46:47   written a number of novels in the past [TS]

00:46:49   but I think they're all she's republish [TS]

00:46:51   the mall yourself at this point so this [TS]

00:46:53   is also a military focused science [TS]

00:46:57   fiction it's interesting in that it [TS]

00:46:59   mixes military characters and action [TS]

00:47:03   with some pretty strong ii and [TS]

00:47:07   interesting political sentiment in that [TS]

00:47:10   like the first thing in the first [TS]

00:47:11   paragraph of the first chapter is about [TS]

00:47:14   how you know listen the world is run by [TS]

00:47:17   the arms dealers and you know they're [TS]

00:47:19   all just making profits for the defense [TS]

00:47:21   industry and we're just the the soldiers [TS]

00:47:23   here just gonna get chewed up by this [TS]

00:47:25   machine is doing this and that's how the [TS]

00:47:27   that's how that it it starts this is [TS]

00:47:30   also a book that takes a right-hand turn [TS]

00:47:31   because they're we we meet a group of [TS]

00:47:33   soldiers out in Africa American soldiers [TS]

00:47:36   that are patrolling in Africa [TS]

00:47:38   and and it's a fascinating little bit [TS]

00:47:42   but we don't stay with them very long in [TS]

00:47:44   the end and the book goes in a in a [TS]

00:47:46   different direction from there and it [TS]

00:47:48   becomes this interesting combination of [TS]

00:47:51   military action and this recurring [TS]

00:47:55   question for uh about if there is an [TS]

00:48:00   artificial intelligence emerging [TS]

00:48:01   definitely a science fiction it's a [TS]

00:48:03   near-future with an artificial [TS]

00:48:04   intelligence that may or may not be [TS]

00:48:06   emerging in an interesting way and the [TS]

00:48:08   main character is a guy who was a given [TS]

00:48:12   the choice of being in the Army or going [TS]

00:48:14   to jail because he was at it in a [TS]

00:48:17   political protest and so he decides to [TS]

00:48:19   do this and he leaves his girlfriend [TS]

00:48:21   behind and decides to stay out of jail [TS]

00:48:23   and become a and become a soldier and [TS]

00:48:26   ends up in another in another thing that [TS]

00:48:28   happens here ends up being the recipient [TS]

00:48:30   of some of the earliest high technology [TS]

00:48:33   for veterans to sort of like give them [TS]

00:48:35   Bionic parts and and so that's a thread [TS]

00:48:39   that runs through this you got the AI [TS]

00:48:40   stuff you've got the first bionic [TS]

00:48:42   soldier stuff you've got the questions [TS]

00:48:44   about how power in this future world is [TS]

00:48:46   controlled by the arms dealers and and [TS]

00:48:49   the defense industry versus the [TS]

00:48:51   government's and it's all just sort of [TS]

00:48:53   mixed together in an interesting way and [TS]

00:48:56   at some point minor spoiler at some [TS]

00:48:58   point a nuclear bomb goes off very close [TS]

00:49:00   to people and that's also very exciting [TS]

00:49:02   so what did what did everybody think of [TS]

00:49:04   that spread why did you give us a give [TS]

00:49:06   us a start [TS]

00:49:07   uh I enjoyed a lot of read it in about a [TS]

00:49:10   day sneaking it here and there she does [TS]

00:49:14   a good job depicting mean especially [TS]

00:49:16   that opening sequence excellent job [TS]

00:49:18   depicting the military know in a very [TS]

00:49:21   bad situation i really like the mix of [TS]

00:49:23   politics and the noticed there's no info [TS]

00:49:26   dumps she drops a little bit of [TS]

00:49:29   Technology she drops little politics you [TS]

00:49:31   mix it all together nicely arm some [TS]

00:49:35   interesting characters the the [TS]

00:49:37   relationship between the main character [TS]

00:49:39   his father and his girlfriend very [TS]

00:49:41   interesting you know it's the father is [TS]

00:49:45   proud of what he's doing but very upset [TS]

00:49:47   that he keeps disappearing for come on [TS]

00:49:50   Selma and [TS]

00:49:51   you know getting body parts blown off [TS]

00:49:53   and coming back broken and i think if [TS]

00:49:59   you like spy novels you like this one [TS]

00:50:01   you like military is if you like this [TS]

00:50:02   one if you like burning gay you like [TS]

00:50:05   this one arm she put together quite a [TS]

00:50:10   nice entry and they what I so far to [TS]

00:50:13   book series we'll see how Fargo's sean [TS]

00:50:17   paul you guys read this one [TS]

00:50:19   yeah well Paul and I actually read it [TS]

00:50:21   for what it is another person we've [TS]

00:50:23   interviewed which is kind of fun [TS]

00:50:24   it's not as fresh in my memory is [TS]

00:50:26   perhaps and friends are four paws uh I [TS]

00:50:29   also really like this i think the larger [TS]

00:50:31   because like Joe Haldeman forever worse [TS]

00:50:34   one of my favorite books ever and it [TS]

00:50:35   obviously this book has some does some [TS]

00:50:38   things take the technology there's are [TS]

00:50:40   similar and deals with some of the very [TS]

00:50:41   aggressive political aspects in terms of [TS]

00:50:45   the sort of military industrial complex [TS]

00:50:46   stuff and that's that's something that I [TS]

00:50:49   find really fascinating is it's it's [TS]

00:50:50   when science fiction's working the best [TS]

00:50:52   it's not just sticking with the status [TS]

00:50:55   quo is questioning what whatever the [TS]

00:50:57   status quo happens to be an issue i [TS]

00:51:00   think you noted at the very beginning it [TS]

00:51:02   pretty much like puts this like it just [TS]

00:51:04   puts out all of its cards and says here [TS]

00:51:06   you go hit know that you know what we're [TS]

00:51:08   playing with right now I'm v defense [TS]

00:51:11   industry you know and contractors have [TS]

00:51:13   lots of control starts out and you're [TS]

00:51:15   thinking it's sort of like a rant of a [TS]

00:51:17   character and then fairly soon after [TS]

00:51:19   like oh no that's the plot that's the [TS]

00:51:21   that's the story [TS]

00:51:22   yeah it it can be a little heavy-handed [TS]

00:51:24   i think at times but it's also it i [TS]

00:51:27   think it's doing something that is very [TS]

00:51:29   current in the same way that Haldeman's [TS]

00:51:32   book was very current for at least when [TS]

00:51:34   he was writing it was in this sort of [TS]

00:51:36   post Vietnam era in this way to dealing [TS]

00:51:38   with a very different type of of war [TS]

00:51:40   situation and different kind of [TS]

00:51:42   industrial military industrial complex [TS]

00:51:44   and it's obviously taking a very sort of [TS]

00:51:48   extrapolated view of it and i find it i [TS]

00:51:50   just find that really fascinating i like [TS]

00:51:52   when science-fiction military SF in [TS]

00:51:54   particular is actually trying to deal [TS]

00:51:56   with real-world issues and a slightly [TS]

00:51:59   future science fiction setting instead [TS]

00:52:01   of just sort of taking us five billion [TS]

00:52:03   years in the future and [TS]

00:52:04   we're just fighting aliens with no faces [TS]

00:52:07   and stuff which can be fun but maybe not [TS]

00:52:10   as relevant to today so I'm that since I [TS]

00:52:13   really appreciate it [TS]

00:52:14   what about you Paul yeah I as Sean said [TS]

00:52:17   we reread this early last year I've been [TS]

00:52:21   reading into stuff for a long time and [TS]

00:52:23   she had dropped out of the SF here for a [TS]

00:52:25   while she did a couple friends see now [TS]

00:52:27   that I was very glad when she came back [TS]

00:52:29   like hope she's gonna stop always book I [TS]

00:52:32   so I delved into it I was kind of [TS]

00:52:34   predisposed to like it on those bases [TS]

00:52:37   and so it's ok military SF ok politics [TS]

00:52:40   and then AI think ok now i start to see [TS]

00:52:42   where where where the wind and the guy [TS]

00:52:44   that i read back in the 90 uses was [TS]

00:52:47   coming into this is because as sorry as [TS]

00:52:49   like this doesn't feel like it feels [TS]

00:52:51   like her writing but it isn't it and [TS]

00:52:53   then when when she went the strings all [TS]

00:52:54   finally started mixing together ice [TS]

00:52:56   serve see okay now this feels like a [TS]

00:52:59   wind and they got a book and I was very [TS]

00:53:00   very happy to have another Linda got a [TS]

00:53:03   book that makes any sense because she is [TS]

00:53:06   an underrated underrated writer and I'm [TS]

00:53:09   glad to see that she's up i got their [TS]

00:53:11   publishing and getting new readers she's [TS]

00:53:13   been nominated for this award before is [TS]

00:53:15   she not [TS]

00:53:15   yeah long long time ago yeah now i had [TS]

00:53:19   read anything by her so I was intrigued [TS]

00:53:21   Scott what did you think of this one [TS]

00:53:22   i also have never read anything by heard [TS]

00:53:24   nor have I ever heard of her [TS]

00:53:26   so I I that was good i'm glad i read [TS]

00:53:29   this book because i liked it i have a [TS]

00:53:30   don't read a lot of military science [TS]

00:53:32   fiction Clyde you have a soft spot for [TS]

00:53:34   military science fiction so I thought I [TS]

00:53:37   enjoyed it i like the twists are like [TS]

00:53:39   everyone said it's kind of a very it [TS]

00:53:42   feels very contemporary she's trying to [TS]

00:53:44   make a point I like novels that have a [TS]

00:53:46   point of view and this certainly has a [TS]

00:53:48   very strong point of view and it's not [TS]

00:53:51   shy about letting you know what that [TS]

00:53:53   point of view is and i thought as i was [TS]

00:53:55   reading it I thought okay well i know [TS]

00:53:57   what i'm getting this it starts off the [TS]

00:53:59   first chapter is like pretty [TS]

00:54:00   straightforward military science fiction [TS]

00:54:02   was like okay this is cool [TS]

00:54:04   I know what's happening and then she [TS]

00:54:05   kind of swerves and the whole AI thing [TS]

00:54:08   happens and nuclear bombs go haha [TS]

00:54:12   all kinds of crazy stuff happens but [TS]

00:54:14   even with all this crazy stuff she has [TS]

00:54:16   characters that are believable and they [TS]

00:54:17   have relationships and you know i was [TS]

00:54:20   giving fire with fire a hard time for [TS]

00:54:23   the female character I feel like this [TS]

00:54:24   book has a lot of strong female [TS]

00:54:26   characters in it which i think is great [TS]

00:54:29   but it's not it doesn't make it it's not [TS]

00:54:32   like trumpeting the fact that hey look [TS]

00:54:34   there are strong feeling characters [TS]

00:54:35   they're just characters in the book they [TS]

00:54:38   have things to do and that's great i [TS]

00:54:40   like the talk about the emergent AI [TS]

00:54:43   think I really I i like the fact that so [TS]

00:54:49   many depictions of AI in science fiction [TS]

00:54:51   are and you know and then it became [TS]

00:54:54   alive and began to talk to us and all [TS]

00:54:56   that and this this seems a you know I [TS]

00:54:59   don't know [TS]

00:54:59   more likely a scenario to me which is [TS]

00:55:02   that there is something that is emergent [TS]

00:55:05   that has behavior that you know it's [TS]

00:55:08   coming from somewhere and it's not [TS]

00:55:09   natural but it's actually unclear how [TS]

00:55:12   intelligence it even is if it thinks or [TS]

00:55:14   if it's just pushing reality and and I [TS]

00:55:18   in ways that its programming is pushing [TS]

00:55:20   it to you know you can't get you can see [TS]

00:55:23   the shape of it it's just beneath the [TS]

00:55:26   surface and you don't know whether it's [TS]

00:55:28   really thinking or not and at first [TS]

00:55:30   people don't even understand that it's [TS]

00:55:32   there and it takes a long time [TS]

00:55:34   the main character that you know it's [TS]

00:55:36   easier for people to think that he's got [TS]

00:55:38   vision from God then it is that he's [TS]

00:55:41   been you know given information or B is [TS]

00:55:44   being manipulated by an artificial [TS]

00:55:46   intelligence and so that's a really [TS]

00:55:49   interesting twist I loved the the [TS]

00:55:52   beginning in in Africa I thought that [TS]

00:55:54   was a really evocative segment and I was [TS]

00:55:56   sort of sad when it ended but I I see [TS]

00:55:58   why you know how was the story she [TS]

00:56:00   wanted to tell she took told that is [TS]

00:56:02   almost like a little short story and [TS]

00:56:04   then kicked us into the rest of the [TS]

00:56:05   story which was which was really nice if [TS]

00:56:08   I have a complaint about this it's [TS]

00:56:09   probably that I felt like it went a [TS]

00:56:11   little too long and after after you blow [TS]

00:56:16   up a nuclear bomb high above not that [TS]

00:56:20   high above many of your characters I [TS]

00:56:24   feel like that [TS]

00:56:25   that's probably as good as it's gonna [TS]

00:56:27   get and I felt that kind of went on a [TS]

00:56:29   little bit long after that there was a [TS]

00:56:31   lot of of their there was some more [TS]

00:56:34   action and and there's an airplane chase [TS]

00:56:37   at one point and I felt like the most [TS]

00:56:41   climactic things have already happened [TS]

00:56:42   and that I was kind of ready for it to [TS]

00:56:45   be over so i guess that would be my one [TS]

00:56:47   complaint about it is there's a whole [TS]

00:56:49   thing where there's somebody taken [TS]

00:56:50   hostage and there's people on one [TS]

00:56:52   airplane and people in different [TS]

00:56:53   airplane and yeah you know at that point [TS]

00:56:55   I i felt like i had my foot fill in that [TS]

00:56:59   it didn't need to keep going on but but [TS]

00:57:02   no it was a lot of fun that was not what [TS]

00:57:04   I expected from reading the community [TS]

00:57:06   from the cover and from assuming that it [TS]

00:57:08   was a military and no point did any of [TS]

00:57:11   the characters devolved into what they [TS]

00:57:12   could I mean that you know I went to buy [TS]

00:57:14   became a soldier instead of going to [TS]

00:57:16   prison or the father whose protesting [TS]

00:57:18   about his son's life choices or the [TS]

00:57:19   girlfriend who breaks up with him [TS]

00:57:20   because he's going in the military [TS]

00:57:22   all of those seem like they could be [TS]

00:57:24   stock characters and none of them are [TS]

00:57:27   behaving in totally you know predictable [TS]

00:57:30   stock ways which is nice [TS]

00:57:33   it's also the first time i [TS]

00:57:34   self-published novel has appeared on [TS]

00:57:35   this I think yeah I think so yeah which [TS]

00:57:38   is really interesting when you think [TS]

00:57:40   about it because that's like we had a [TS]

00:57:42   big conversation I think last year about [TS]

00:57:45   I think they like you how he or somebody [TS]

00:57:47   have a fit because they can get [TS]

00:57:48   nominated for like the the proper awards [TS]

00:57:52   because they're self-publisher some [TS]

00:57:54   remember who was it probably wasn't you [TS]

00:57:55   Howie but then of course now where we [TS]

00:57:58   are 2014 is like well as a punishment [TS]

00:58:00   got nominated so what if she may have [TS]

00:58:02   made it easier to nominate she's already [TS]

00:58:06   been known for ya got a number of years [TS]

00:58:08   she seems to be approaching this I mean [TS]

00:58:10   it's not like hi I'm Linda and I have a [TS]

00:58:14   book she's got as the way she seems to [TS]

00:58:16   be approaching it as i am my own [TS]

00:58:17   publisher and I am publishing these [TS]

00:58:19   novels and I you know I've got a [TS]

00:58:21   publishing company with a name and and [TS]

00:58:23   is trying to sort of self-published with [TS]

00:58:26   the trappings of being in a you know in [TS]

00:58:28   a publishing house even though she's not [TS]

00:58:30   which has got an interesting approach [TS]

00:58:33   I think number alright um let's then [TS]

00:58:37   then unless there's anything else [TS]

00:58:39   about that move on to a stranger in a [TS]

00:58:42   laundry abay Sophia samatar this is [TS]

00:58:45   gonna be interesting haha why don't I [TS]

00:58:47   idea [TS]

00:58:49   somebody else might want to Scott can [TS]

00:58:51   you help me out here can you explain [TS]

00:58:53   what this book is about uh well do you [TS]

00:58:56   remember it i do remember it i remember [TS]

00:58:59   parts of it it's the story of a young [TS]

00:59:02   man whose father grows peppers directly [TS]

00:59:08   yes he did he takes a trip he meet some [TS]

00:59:11   interesting people he learns how to [TS]

00:59:14   write and read [TS]

00:59:16   yes he's he's instructed by a traveler [TS]

00:59:20   from the far-off big-city the trend [TS]

00:59:23   learns how to read and write and speak [TS]

00:59:24   the language of the far-off city right [TS]

00:59:26   traveled to that City he's he's haunted [TS]

00:59:29   by a ghost see and then yes [TS]

00:59:33   yeah apparently he is kidnapped by some [TS]

00:59:38   religious people put into an asylum of [TS]

00:59:41   some sort [TS]

00:59:42   he is a then kind of kidnapped by [TS]

00:59:45   another group of people who escaped help [TS]

00:59:47   him escape from the asylum [TS]

00:59:49   there's a scene where religious group [TS]

00:59:52   holds a fair and everybody gets beat up [TS]

00:59:54   and then he hides out all trying to come [TS]

00:59:54   and then he hides out all trying to come [TS]

01:00:00   here himself from was honoring yes at [TS]

01:00:02   the end of he goes to the end of the [TS]

01:00:03   world and hides out it [TS]

01:00:05   yes and writes a book in the margins of [TS]

01:00:07   another book while someone else is dying [TS]

01:00:09   but they're not dying because the ghost [TS]

01:00:11   helps him keep them alive and then when [TS]

01:00:14   he finishes writing the book the ghost [TS]

01:00:16   goes away everybody's happy and he goes [TS]

01:00:20   home [TS]

01:00:20   sort of yeah kind of is that there's [TS]

01:00:24   that shirt yeah i really did remember [TS]

01:00:26   this will pick and I thought it went on [TS]

01:00:29   so long for such a short book it was a [TS]

01:00:34   short i read it on the kindle it didn't [TS]

01:00:36   seem sure to me at all [TS]

01:00:37   it seemed very very very very long i was [TS]

01:00:40   reading it and I could think this this [TS]

01:00:43   is good but perplexing i don't know why [TS]

01:00:49   i'm reading this I don't really care [TS]

01:00:52   about anything that's happening and I [TS]

01:00:55   hope it will stop it you know it it it's [TS]

01:00:59   kind of shaggy dog story right there's [TS]

01:01:03   lots of stories right i mean that was [TS]

01:01:05   the thing that stopped be actually [TS]

01:01:06   because I enjoyed a lot of it but but [TS]

01:01:08   you know you get to a point where like [TS]

01:01:10   okay now i'm going to tell you and [TS]

01:01:12   literally the whole that we're going to [TS]

01:01:13   stop the entire book now and tell like a [TS]

01:01:15   whole other books worth of a story to [TS]

01:01:18   get around like that let's back up until [TS]

01:01:20   the ghost story or four excerpts from [TS]

01:01:22   books or excerpts from problems yeah and [TS]

01:01:25   that was that was what it beat me down [TS]

01:01:27   after a while that as much as I [TS]

01:01:29   appreciate the quality of the writing [TS]

01:01:30   and I was sort of interested in what was [TS]

01:01:31   happening there are so many excerpts [TS]

01:01:34   from books and there's so many other [TS]

01:01:35   people's stories there's so many legends [TS]

01:01:37   do you know the legend of this [TS]

01:01:38   well let me tell you the entire legend [TS]

01:01:40   of that and that that was what stretched [TS]

01:01:42   it out for me [TS]

01:01:43   I you know I I yeah yeah what was I well [TS]

01:01:47   what do other people who are not mean [TS]

01:01:48   Scott think about this before i go on [TS]

01:01:50   too long about ok it the the writing is [TS]

01:01:53   almost painfully beautiful it does have [TS]

01:01:56   that structure of let's drill down into [TS]

01:01:59   the story come back up again drill down [TS]

01:02:01   it can remind it reminded me I I think [TS]

01:02:03   Fred will get the reference reminding me [TS]

01:02:05   of a of a bit in in gold LS kabak where [TS]

01:02:09   they were they explore stories where you [TS]

01:02:11   drill down and come back up again and [TS]

01:02:13   a very almost a very picky mountain sort [TS]

01:02:16   of structure to the book and that didn't [TS]

01:02:18   make it [TS]

01:02:19   it's not a long book but it feels [TS]

01:02:21   feeling very long [TS]

01:02:22   spaa I tedious is not the right word [TS]

01:02:25   because I wasn't bored it just it just [TS]

01:02:28   it just had to take my time reading this [TS]

01:02:31   understanding anything actually [TS]

01:02:32   immersing myself into it and I couldn't [TS]

01:02:35   read a lot of it at at once because it [TS]

01:02:38   was it was it was like how it was like a [TS]

01:02:40   very rich rum cake and I could only have [TS]

01:02:43   a little bit at a time and then i had to [TS]

01:02:46   put off because it was just too much [TS]

01:02:48   digest one time as think about like all [TS]

01:02:50   that was nice [TS]

01:02:51   okay i can read some more now but I just [TS]

01:02:53   cannot take I couldn't I couldn't cope [TS]

01:02:55   this down like some of the other other [TS]

01:02:57   of books and books in the this list this [TS]

01:03:01   had this idea really really work at to [TS]

01:03:03   actually get through i was it worth it i [TS]

01:03:07   think their readers who should never go [TS]

01:03:10   anywhere near this process hate hate [TS]

01:03:12   hate that yeah alright so i'm not sure [TS]

01:03:17   if i can recommend this or not there [TS]

01:03:19   there's depth is definitely a book back [TS]

01:03:22   we'll definitely be devices i think yeah [TS]

01:03:24   i would i would agree that it [TS]

01:03:26   this is this is going to be a book for a [TS]

01:03:28   very particular kind of reader and [TS]

01:03:31   somebody maybe maybe a reader who [TS]

01:03:34   doesn't know what kind of book they like [TS]

01:03:36   which that you might want to throw it at [TS]

01:03:38   them and see what happens to their face [TS]

01:03:39   think I actually really enjoyed it and [TS]

01:03:44   and I actually talked to Sophia samatar [TS]

01:03:46   about the book before i had read it [TS]

01:03:48   earlier this year and that's partly why [TS]

01:03:50   i bought the book immediately and then [TS]

01:03:53   had her sign and not realizing she'd [TS]

01:03:54   already signed it because I was just [TS]

01:03:56   excited sochi personalize the signature [TS]

01:03:59   which is kinda cool but it was a weird [TS]

01:04:01   experience but I I'll i liked it and i [TS]

01:04:04   think the reference i was actually gonna [TS]

01:04:05   go to is it seemed very much like a [TS]

01:04:07   salmon rushdie book some of its uses of [TS]

01:04:11   other narratives that would and I feel [TS]

01:04:13   like that may have considering her [TS]

01:04:16   academic experience and her research [TS]

01:04:19   into arabic literature there there is a [TS]

01:04:22   connection into that tradition that [TS]

01:04:24   maybe we're not getting [TS]

01:04:26   and I'm I'm not getting it because I'm [TS]

01:04:28   not that's not my field and i don't i [TS]

01:04:30   don't study that particular literature [TS]

01:04:31   but that Russia would be the person that [TS]

01:04:33   i would i would make the biggest [TS]

01:04:35   connection to what the way in which it [TS]

01:04:36   goes in and outside of the story going [TS]

01:04:38   down and then going back up in this kind [TS]

01:04:40   of a hill like structure in terms of the [TS]

01:04:43   narrative and I also feel like it [TS]

01:04:46   I i agree that it can be super [TS]

01:04:48   frustrating for a reader who maybe is [TS]

01:04:50   you know more attuned with a kind of [TS]

01:04:53   popular commercial type of writing but [TS]

01:04:55   for somebody who's looking for a [TS]

01:04:57   challenging read this is definitely the [TS]

01:04:59   kind of book that you'll want because [TS]

01:05:01   it's it is it's not a simplistic read [TS]

01:05:03   it's not just an adventure story [TS]

01:05:06   not that there's anything wrong with [TS]

01:05:07   those but like for me like there's two [TS]

01:05:09   reasons i read I'm either looking just [TS]

01:05:10   to be entertained i'm looking to be [TS]

01:05:12   intellectually stimulated sometimes I [TS]

01:05:14   get both which is cool but this one had [TS]

01:05:17   thought into that second category it's [TS]

01:05:18   it's a book that's going to stimulate me [TS]

01:05:20   and it is written very beautifully it [TS]

01:05:22   does just really cool things with [TS]

01:05:24   narrative in terms of just like it [TS]

01:05:26   there's no like straight narrative form [TS]

01:05:28   here it's not you know there's not a [TS]

01:05:30   normal climax you know that it doesn't [TS]

01:05:34   go from a to the the rising action and [TS]

01:05:36   all these kinds of sort of traditional [TS]

01:05:37   structure it breaks it apart gives us [TS]

01:05:40   all these different pieces to the world [TS]

01:05:42   on its incredibly detailed so in that [TS]

01:05:45   sense I think it's quite beautiful but [TS]

01:05:47   it's very much a small beer press kind [TS]

01:05:48   of book if you're a fan of small press [TS]

01:05:50   you're probably gonna love this one [TS]

01:05:52   storytelling is definitely the heart of [TS]

01:05:53   it i mean the whole point the ghost [TS]

01:05:55   entire thing is you will read a book [TS]

01:05:57   about me you will write a book about me [TS]

01:05:59   write it means a story that needs to be [TS]

01:06:01   told this story needs to be told and [TS]

01:06:03   this is a an illiterate kid who learns [TS]

01:06:06   literacy and learns about the literature [TS]

01:06:08   of this country and then visit the [TS]

01:06:10   country i mean that is all part of [TS]

01:06:12   what's going on here and if i was [TS]

01:06:14   writing a you know a 10-page essay in a [TS]

01:06:17   literature class in college about any of [TS]

01:06:19   the books on this list I probably picked [TS]

01:06:20   this one because it is rich and there's [TS]

01:06:23   a lot going on here Fred do [TS]

01:06:27   did you read this one yes I did that's I [TS]

01:06:30   mean it [TS]

01:06:31   well if if game was very economical and [TS]

01:06:35   Chuck and is very old school [TS]

01:06:39   this is i mean i-i thought of this is [TS]

01:06:41   being more like a and all much too great [TS]

01:06:43   literature there's one section I think [TS]

01:06:46   like before the fifth chapter i'm like [TS]

01:06:47   saying she quoting a culvers travels [TS]

01:06:52   here because almost all my life I've [TS]

01:06:54   read this i've read this somewhere [TS]

01:06:56   yeah i was going back and forth between [TS]

01:06:58   gulliver's travels in like candy or [TS]

01:07:00   something I kept thinking of looks like [TS]

01:07:01   that in overall I i really enjoyed it [TS]

01:07:04   but it felt very rich for the length if [TS]

01:07:10   it had been slightly shorter i could [TS]

01:07:12   have digested it better that I loved the [TS]

01:07:15   writing but i felt like i had eaten a [TS]

01:07:18   ten-course meal by the end of the way [TS]

01:07:20   out that moment when you get to the [TS]

01:07:22   girl's story which one level you've been [TS]

01:07:26   leading up to it the whole the whole way [TS]

01:07:28   but I i I've that it kind of lost me [TS]

01:07:31   there because I felt like we were I was [TS]

01:07:33   so many levels of nested parentheses [TS]

01:07:35   into this book at that point that I just [TS]

01:07:37   couldn't bear to go down another level [TS]

01:07:39   and and and that was happening at a time [TS]

01:07:43   when actually the main narrative was in [TS]

01:07:46   its most well I mean there's lots of [TS]

01:07:48   really interesting things in this but i [TS]

01:07:49   loved how evocative the broken-down [TS]

01:07:52   abandoned castle on the edge of the [TS]

01:07:55   known world weathers its it's cold and [TS]

01:07:58   there's nothing but a cold dry desert [TS]

01:08:00   and like an old lady living in a cave at [TS]

01:08:04   you know several miles away [TS]

01:08:06   I I loved that feeling that he's got his [TS]

01:08:08   friend who may be dying and they don't [TS]

01:08:11   have anything to eat and they're in this [TS]

01:08:12   opulent but decrepit hunting lodge [TS]

01:08:15   castle breaking up the furniture to stay [TS]

01:08:18   warm [TS]

01:08:19   that's so I've been so beautiful and [TS]

01:08:21   evocative and interesting and in the [TS]

01:08:24   midst of all that they're sort of like [TS]

01:08:25   okay let me tell you a story and its [TS]

01:08:28   back to one of the islands and this girl [TS]

01:08:30   who we met who is now the ghost that's [TS]

01:08:32   haunting him and I don't know something [TS]

01:08:34   about that I just I got I got frustrated [TS]

01:08:36   as a reader that was like I didn't feel [TS]

01:08:39   like I was being challenged by her [TS]

01:08:41   narrative at that point I felt like I [TS]

01:08:42   was being I don't know whether it was [TS]

01:08:44   being taken advantage of or just yeah I [TS]

01:08:46   was being frustrated by that point but [TS]

01:08:49   you're you're even educated at the style [TS]

01:08:51   of writing [TS]

01:08:52   that she just takes a step back and [TS]

01:08:55   tells a straightforward tail [TS]

01:08:57   alright I've hit you with all the [TS]

01:08:58   legends that you have all the myths now [TS]

01:09:00   here we go here's something just as good [TS]

01:09:02   just shocking this you know what happens [TS]

01:09:05   to this one person and not to be not to [TS]

01:09:07   be too cynical about it but there are [TS]

01:09:09   there are a few stories in there that I [TS]

01:09:10   read and I thought this is this isn't [TS]

01:09:13   dolt self-indulgent this is I've got [TS]

01:09:15   some interesting world building and [TS]

01:09:17   takes on some of these sort of Legends [TS]

01:09:19   and I'm going to drop them all and show [TS]

01:09:20   you all my notes and I swear [TS]

01:09:22   goodreads tells me this is 300 pages [TS]

01:09:24   long I if you had asked me I would've [TS]

01:09:26   said it was like 500 pages long this is [TS]

01:09:28   where the kindle I guess is a [TS]

01:09:29   disadvantage because it felt like that [TS]

01:09:31   it felt like you know just and again i [TS]

01:09:34   enjoyed some of them but then they kept [TS]

01:09:36   coming and I i ended up feeling kind of [TS]

01:09:38   beaten up by the number of depressions [TS]

01:09:40   and and they weren't you know any and a [TS]

01:09:45   lot of them weren't that impressive to [TS]

01:09:47   me it was more like oh ok [TS]

01:09:48   yep tell me that come with the backstory [TS]

01:09:49   of this thing it's like a short story in [TS]

01:09:51   which every sentence contains ape a [TS]

01:09:54   footnote containing another longer story [TS]

01:09:57   explaining all the background of that [TS]

01:09:59   sentence it was a little bit like that [TS]

01:10:01   after haha [TS]

01:10:02   while i was just like god it's you know [TS]

01:10:04   it was you know and maybe that's my [TS]

01:10:06   feeling is a reader but as a reader i [TS]

01:10:08   felt like it was it was it was too much [TS]

01:10:09   like I really got into it for a while [TS]

01:10:11   and then I sort of soured on a little [TS]

01:10:13   bit because because you know it is [TS]

01:10:15   certainly intelligent and well written [TS]

01:10:17   and challenging and interesting all of [TS]

01:10:19   those things are true it just it it [TS]

01:10:21   became frustrating to me for the end but [TS]

01:10:23   there are the earth if things in this [TS]

01:10:25   that images in this book that i will [TS]

01:10:27   never forget because they are so [TS]

01:10:29   beautiful and evocative an interesting [TS]

01:10:30   the crazy we didn't even mention the [TS]

01:10:33   Running of the Bulls style religious [TS]

01:10:36   festival that happens getty where he had [TS]

01:10:38   speedy ends up like naked in a pending [TS]

01:10:41   it's it's a it's a long night for the [TS]

01:10:43   big character but it's so beautiful [TS]

01:10:46   beautiful and interesting and how he [TS]

01:10:47   tells the story it's crazy also a first [TS]

01:10:50   novel wow wow so amazing [TS]

01:10:54   yeah it's actually really impressive the [TS]

01:10:57   the number first novels that are also [TS]

01:11:01   really really impressive and then of [TS]

01:11:04   themselves based on what they're trying [TS]

01:11:05   to [TS]

01:11:06   do so I mean this and and and like and [TS]

01:11:10   like his book you know they're very [TS]

01:11:11   different types of books but they're [TS]

01:11:13   each incredibly ambitious i feel which [TS]

01:11:16   gives something like a brownie point i [TS]

01:11:18   think yeah you can have the excuse of [TS]

01:11:22   well you know my first novel was like [TS]

01:11:24   well I've got some examples of other [TS]

01:11:27   great first novels uh is the goldman the [TS]

01:11:30   genie Helen workers first novel to yes [TS]

01:11:33   yes if look at that up but singing [TS]

01:11:36   Amazing which is another really [TS]

01:11:39   interesting book [TS]

01:11:40   yeah uh-huh so this one is what late its [TS]

01:11:47   19th century New York you're eighteen [TS]

01:11:49   nineties yeah yeah yeahs late 19th [TS]

01:11:52   century New York it's a story of [TS]

01:11:54   immigrants in this case in addition to [TS]

01:11:57   the Jewish immigrants and the MIT the [TS]

01:12:01   they're not if they're actually [TS]

01:12:04   Christians but from from from Syria so [TS]

01:12:07   we would think of this as a as a [TS]

01:12:09   middle-eastern group of people but [TS]

01:12:11   they're actually mostly Christians that [TS]

01:12:13   are in the story they are all they could [TS]

01:12:16   they come to the new to the new world [TS]

01:12:18   seeking III new life and in and they are [TS]

01:12:21   in New York City but the a golem and a [TS]

01:12:25   genie also if are immigrants to New York [TS]

01:12:29   City and and through a series of [TS]

01:12:32   interesting events than the way the [TS]

01:12:35   genie gets put in his not a bottle but a [TS]

01:12:38   lamp is a is told in flashback the Golem [TS]

01:12:42   story is told more straightforwardly in [TS]

01:12:45   the narrative and you know boy when [TS]

01:12:48   these two get together it's going to be [TS]

01:12:49   interesting [TS]

01:12:50   sparks flying and yeah and they're [TS]

01:12:53   surrounded by all sorts of characters [TS]

01:12:54   and there's a there's a character who [TS]

01:12:57   creates the goal at the beginning you [TS]

01:12:58   think you're not going to see again [TS]

01:12:59   before you see him again and and anyway [TS]

01:13:05   that's what this book is about I there's [TS]

01:13:09   a golem and there's a genie [TS]

01:13:10   suffice it to say Scott you told me that [TS]

01:13:14   at one point this was your favorite book [TS]

01:13:16   that you read this year [TS]

01:13:18   it continues to be the favorite my [TS]

01:13:19   favorite book that i've had this year i [TS]

01:13:22   don't know i just well a guy i have a [TS]

01:13:25   well-known bias towards books set in the [TS]

01:13:28   19th century in New York City yes that's [TS]

01:13:29   not so this hits those marks there's no [TS]

01:13:33   detective sadly if there are detective [TS]

01:13:36   this may be my favorite book ever that [TS]

01:13:39   there's no detective so said I'm sorry [TS]

01:13:41   Goldman Jeannie detective agency no new [TS]

01:13:44   book can i pre order that is i'll take [TS]

01:13:48   two copies [TS]

01:13:50   I i really enjoyed this book I mean I [TS]

01:13:53   still there are scenes in the book that [TS]

01:13:55   I still think about every once in a [TS]

01:13:57   while like this so the genie is set free [TS]

01:14:00   by a tinsmith and then so basically the [TS]

01:14:03   tinsmith who is you know he's a [TS]

01:14:05   serviceable tinsmith but he doesn't have [TS]

01:14:07   the power to melt metal with his hands [TS]

01:14:10   as you know generally people don't so [TS]

01:14:14   the genie basically says well I have [TS]

01:14:16   nothing better to do so i'll help you [TS]

01:14:17   who with your tinsmith he starts [TS]

01:14:20   preparing pots of bands of things and [TS]

01:14:22   and kind of doesn't really like it and [TS]

01:14:25   then they get a job to make this ceiling [TS]

01:14:28   new piece for an apartment and so the [TS]

01:14:31   genie goes crazy and makes this [TS]

01:14:33   beautiful map of you know with the [TS]

01:14:36   service of the desert where he lived [TS]

01:14:38   where his secrets are invisible palace [TS]

01:14:41   is and it's a beautiful piece of artwork [TS]

01:14:44   and everyone loves it [TS]

01:14:45   except for the guy who owns the [TS]

01:14:46   apartment building because he's like I'm [TS]

01:14:48   not paying for this use the whole this [TS]

01:14:50   till and this is like a you know a [TS]

01:14:53   slumlord that I this is a slum why is [TS]

01:14:55   this beautiful piece of art here and you [TS]

01:14:57   know but anyway I still think about the [TS]

01:14:59   description of that that's in peace [TS]

01:15:02   every once in awhile yeah you're walking [TS]

01:15:04   to the apartment they look up and all [TS]

01:15:07   the sudden snaps into relief and they're [TS]

01:15:08   like well yes exactly so I mean I just I [TS]

01:15:13   just really liked it [TS]

01:15:14   you reminded me of since we're listing [TS]

01:15:17   things that these books remind us of I [TS]

01:15:19   hide it reminds me a little bit of [TS]

01:15:21   Kavalier and clay by michael chabon it [TS]

01:15:24   just in the sense that it was it'sit's [TS]

01:15:26   immigrant stories in New York it's sort [TS]

01:15:28   of supernatural ish [TS]

01:15:30   but you know it in the end it's this [TS]

01:15:33   story of immigrants of people coming to [TS]

01:15:37   a new world and being out sort of in a [TS]

01:15:40   culture that's inside a different [TS]

01:15:42   culture and mixed with these other [TS]

01:15:44   cultures and how how they all interact [TS]

01:15:46   in a kind of a big it's a big mess and [TS]

01:15:48   they all interact and and push against [TS]

01:15:50   one another in manhattan and this had [TS]

01:15:54   that same feeling i love the fact that [TS]

01:15:56   the you know that the golden the genie [TS]

01:15:58   both are are immigrants as well kind of [TS]

01:16:00   against their will but they're [TS]

01:16:02   immigrants as well what did anybody else [TS]

01:16:05   who read this one want to talk about a [TS]

01:16:07   little bit I why I this is one of the [TS]

01:16:10   ones that I they worked on today so I'm [TS]

01:16:11   not quite finished with it but it is it [TS]

01:16:14   is a book that i wish i had read earlier [TS]

01:16:16   because as soon as they started reading [TS]

01:16:18   it I knew it was going to be dealing [TS]

01:16:19   with stuff that i would be interested in [TS]

01:16:21   because it's not because it's dealing [TS]

01:16:23   with like it's got a golem much as like [TS]

01:16:25   the opening chapter is really [TS]

01:16:27   fascinating when the the Golem is sort [TS]

01:16:29   of created and then in the immediate [TS]

01:16:30   step that follows after that's really [TS]

01:16:32   interesting but I also really love that [TS]

01:16:34   this was a book that was dealing with [TS]

01:16:36   the immigration issue at a time period [TS]

01:16:38   that's you know well before I was born [TS]

01:16:42   and before anyone on this podcast was [TS]

01:16:44   born unless somebody here is a vampire [TS]

01:16:46   because it it's interesting to see you [TS]

01:16:50   know that the Ellis Island stuff being [TS]

01:16:52   dealt with in in a what is clearly a [TS]

01:16:55   fantasy novel being dealt with very [TS]

01:16:58   explicitly that there's a really great [TS]

01:17:00   chapter in here where favorite character [TS]

01:17:02   it is where he's sitting there and just [TS]

01:17:04   briefly says that like Ellis Island guy [TS]

01:17:06   says you know what your name is weird [TS]

01:17:08   and we should just make it American and [TS]

01:17:10   then they changed his name to like you [TS]

01:17:12   know that's where the dark rabbi comes [TS]

01:17:14   over right they just the change his name [TS]

01:17:15   because his name is too hard for them [TS]

01:17:18   yeah but that actually happened and it's [TS]

01:17:19   like this really fascinating like moment [TS]

01:17:22   in this book we're getting this very [TS]

01:17:24   real experience but it's mediated [TS]

01:17:26   through what is going to be a very [TS]

01:17:27   fantastic element of the novel and i [TS]

01:17:30   love that it deals with that and [TS]

01:17:31   obviously is dealing with in terms of [TS]

01:17:33   the column and the the genie in their [TS]

01:17:36   own different here from ways and they're [TS]

01:17:38   sort of attempts to kind of get you [TS]

01:17:40   could almost say they're like allegories [TS]

01:17:42   for sort of the immigrant experience [TS]

01:17:43   but they also operate on their own [TS]

01:17:46   because there are other immigrants that [TS]

01:17:47   are actually trying to integrate into [TS]

01:17:49   and you know 19th century American [TS]

01:17:52   culture they both have their friends [TS]

01:17:54   that are that are also part of the [TS]

01:17:55   immigrant experience right whether the [TS]

01:17:56   tinsmith and the people in that [TS]

01:17:58   neighborhood or it's the the the rabbi [TS]

01:18:01   and his son and the and the people at [TS]

01:18:04   the bakery bakery people him [TS]

01:18:06   yeah yeah or nephew right right yeah [TS]

01:18:09   yeah right yeah yeah it's just [TS]

01:18:11   fascinating i think is it as a book that [TS]

01:18:13   deals with some really really heavy [TS]

01:18:14   subjects but as it in a really beautiful [TS]

01:18:16   way I'm even the relationship without [TS]

01:18:19   between the column and the genie is just [TS]

01:18:20   a really kind of beautiful thing there's [TS]

01:18:22   some brilliant chapters where they're [TS]

01:18:24   sort of interacting and there's one [TS]

01:18:26   moment when the column and a genie [TS]

01:18:28   acknowledge that they don't actually get [TS]

01:18:30   along very well but that's more [TS]

01:18:31   interesting to them that they have these [TS]

01:18:33   arguments then if they just sort of [TS]

01:18:35   dealt with what would be normal everyday [TS]

01:18:37   happy conversations and i love that [TS]

01:18:40   moment when they have that that when [TS]

01:18:42   they realize like yeah we have like a [TS]

01:18:43   true motorist relationship but it's [TS]

01:18:45   actually kind of bed [TS]

01:18:47   the coaches are out to the genie coaxes [TS]

01:18:50   the Golem out to go for a walk basically [TS]

01:18:53   and they walk the streets of you know [TS]

01:18:54   you're eighteen nineties New York I in [TS]

01:18:59   the dark in the middle of the night and [TS]

01:19:02   that's why i love i love all of that to [TS]

01:19:05   the imagery of them doing it and neither [TS]

01:19:07   neither of them sleep so you know [TS]

01:19:09   they've got a lot of free time and [TS]

01:19:11   neither of them are going to be mug [TS]

01:19:12   definitely not that's definitely not so [TS]

01:19:16   i liked i really like that that that the [TS]

01:19:18   the images of that and then there's a [TS]

01:19:20   pivotal scene that happens in the park [TS]

01:19:22   and fountain and you know and there's [TS]

01:19:26   some interesting things with the genie [TS]

01:19:28   before he meets the Golem where he meets [TS]

01:19:29   a young lady of means in the city and [TS]

01:19:32   and and how he interacts with her and [TS]

01:19:36   and boy does he interact with her anyway [TS]

01:19:40   uh home and she has a little of fire [TS]

01:19:43   baby later anyway how as you do this [TS]

01:19:47   well if you're gonna play around with a [TS]

01:19:49   genie that might happen [TS]

01:19:51   he's the stuff he's a fire elemental [TS]

01:19:55   yeah I I I like this I like this book so [TS]

01:20:00   much I can say it i just it is you know [TS]

01:20:05   the two characters very interesting the [TS]

01:20:06   supporting cast around the more [TS]

01:20:08   interesting when they meet in their [TS]

01:20:09   relationships great quite honestly if [TS]

01:20:11   there hadn't been the plot motivation of [TS]

01:20:13   the you know essentially the creator of [TS]

01:20:15   the genie comes back and and and [TS]

01:20:18   discovers that you know he's a very very [TS]

01:20:21   bad man he discovers that she's there [TS]

01:20:23   and he's trying to unlock secrets and it [TS]

01:20:25   turns out that you know his story is [TS]

01:20:27   much more complicated than we were led [TS]

01:20:28   to believe and that's all fine it makes [TS]

01:20:30   it makes for some jeopardy and makes the [TS]

01:20:32   plot move at the end if it didn't exist [TS]

01:20:34   in the book I would not like it any less [TS]

01:20:38   i think if there was not the bad guy [TS]

01:20:40   who's going around tryna I mean just the [TS]

01:20:42   truth the life of the people like like [TS]

01:20:45   her and her friend from the bakery who's [TS]

01:20:49   being misled by a gentleman who she [TS]

01:20:52   thinks is going to marry her but in fact [TS]

01:20:54   he's a CAD stuff like that was I like [TS]

01:20:58   that and how a golem reacts to that i [TS]

01:21:01   thought was perfectly interesting i [TS]

01:21:02   actually you know and I like the fact [TS]

01:21:04   that the Golem so the whole point of the [TS]

01:21:06   goals that she can senses other people's [TS]

01:21:08   desires and wants to fulfill them and so [TS]

01:21:12   she's working in this bakery and she can [TS]

01:21:14   sense you know that you come in and your [TS]

01:21:16   friends and you want you know a rye [TS]

01:21:18   bread seedless rye bread so she knows [TS]

01:21:20   that already and she has it ready but [TS]

01:21:22   she can't do that she doesn't want to [TS]

01:21:24   see anyone just give it to you because [TS]

01:21:26   you can't expose that she's not a real [TS]

01:21:27   person so she has to wait for you to ask [TS]

01:21:29   and she also has to start making [TS]

01:21:31   mistakes because she's working at the [TS]

01:21:33   bakery making you know roles and things [TS]

01:21:35   every single roll looks exactly the same [TS]

01:21:37   and she's doing things like four times [TS]

01:21:39   faster than everyone else so that she [TS]

01:21:40   realizes oh I better start making some [TS]

01:21:43   mistakes and slowing down because people [TS]

01:21:45   figure out something's up but you can't [TS]

01:21:47   resist doing things like if she knows [TS]

01:21:48   that somebody's coming in they're sad [TS]

01:21:50   and they would be happy if they have a [TS]

01:21:51   cinnamon roll recommend Hill are you [TS]

01:21:53   down [TS]

01:21:54   maybe you should have a cinnamon roll [TS]

01:21:55   just finding ways to interact with [TS]

01:21:57   humans and not expose herself me this [TS]

01:21:59   might be my favorite book of the year so [TS]

01:22:01   far as well it not it not just for the [TS]

01:22:04   main characters but two of the secondary [TS]

01:22:06   characters really moved me [TS]

01:22:08   first off the the good rabbi we want to [TS]

01:22:11   go [TS]

01:22:12   yes everybody yes especially you know [TS]

01:22:14   he's just trying so hard to set a good [TS]

01:22:19   example and teacher and get her ready to [TS]

01:22:21   be independent because he knows you know [TS]

01:22:24   he's got a limited amount of time [TS]

01:22:26   yeah and his relationship with his [TS]

01:22:28   nephew was wonderful and the other thing [TS]

01:22:32   that really moved me was the the woman [TS]

01:22:34   of means you know her her attempt to [TS]

01:22:38   figure out what's going on with her and [TS]

01:22:40   then what happens in Paris especially [TS]

01:22:44   that little love when you've seen where [TS]

01:22:46   the fire baby departs us especially you [TS]

01:22:53   know not to get too personal but it as a [TS]

01:22:55   as a parent who lost a child that was [TS]

01:22:57   very moving to me so yeah yeah it was [TS]

01:23:01   and again like I said about some of the [TS]

01:23:04   other books here characters that didn't [TS]

01:23:07   have to be that rich it you know and you [TS]

01:23:09   would have been easy for a writer to be [TS]

01:23:11   like well you know central casting it's [TS]

01:23:13   a rabbi he's helpful but move on with [TS]

01:23:15   the story or or this is a woman that the [TS]

01:23:17   GV seduces and move on with the story [TS]

01:23:19   and boy nobody gets short shrift like [TS]

01:23:22   that the these characters are all they [TS]

01:23:25   get there they get their moments and [TS]

01:23:26   they are they go beyond what is required [TS]

01:23:28   sort of just move the story along you [TS]

01:23:31   get a lot more detail about the men in [TS]

01:23:33   fact that the the girl you know the [TS]

01:23:36   woman who who the genie has his affair [TS]

01:23:43   with his fling with his his fire baby [TS]

01:23:45   makings with you know she comes back [TS]

01:23:47   around as important as the story goes [TS]

01:23:49   along too so it's uh it's really you [TS]

01:23:52   know it's really nicely done and it's [TS]

01:23:54   not the kind of book that i would i [TS]

01:23:56   would that would leap off the shelf as [TS]

01:23:58   as a somebody who's not an aficionado [TS]

01:24:00   for 19th century New York detective [TS]

01:24:02   stories like Scott so foolish arm I this [TS]

01:24:07   one didn't jump out at me and yet [TS]

01:24:10   boy it's really good it's just it's it's [TS]

01:24:12   fun and the characters are good and the [TS]

01:24:16   it their unexpected things that happen [TS]

01:24:18   and you know it's yeah it's III don't [TS]

01:24:23   know what more to say it's surprising [TS]

01:24:25   and and it's just good all the way [TS]

01:24:27   through so good job only wacker another [TS]

01:24:30   first novel Bravo [TS]

01:24:32   space the final frontier [TS]

01:24:36   these are the voyages of being [TS]

01:24:39   comfortable is very own Scott McNulty as [TS]

01:24:42   he branches out onto his new podcast [TS]

01:24:46   random track from the people who brought [TS]

01:24:48   you the uncomfortable mostly Scott [TS]

01:24:51   although i'm on the first episode random [TS]

01:24:53   track is a podcast where we watch a [TS]

01:24:55   randomly selected episode of Star Trek [TS]

01:24:57   Scott and a guest check it out it's [TS]

01:25:01   brand-new we just started at the [TS]

01:25:03   incomparable dot-com / random Trek [TS]

01:25:07   that's the incomparable dot-com / random [TS]

01:25:10   Trek [TS]

01:25:15   so that's that's eight books we have not [TS]

01:25:20   talked about eight books [TS]

01:25:21   Scott talked about one of himself which [TS]

01:25:25   was good [TS]

01:25:25   that's fine and I was like Scott's [TS]

01:25:27   somebody can thank you for doing [TS]

01:25:28   somebody had to read it [TS]

01:25:30   somebody hydrated uh I want to go around [TS]

01:25:33   before we go and sort ask you of the [TS]

01:25:36   other books here that you read what [TS]

01:25:39   would be your favorite one [TS]

01:25:40   if you had to pick or favorite what you [TS]

01:25:43   know if you can't pick and you can you [TS]

01:25:46   can whip out and stay I like these two [TS]

01:25:48   or three but if you can if you had a [TS]

01:25:51   vote for the nebula what would be your [TS]

01:25:54   what would be your vote [TS]

01:25:56   Fred what do you think well it would [TS]

01:25:58   have gone with the column in the genie [TS]

01:26:00   for me all right [TS]

01:26:02   no hands down that was the the top [TS]

01:26:04   choice for me [TS]

01:26:05   alright Paul what do you think Angela [TS]

01:26:07   justice ancillary justice people like [TS]

01:26:11   you are giving netbook lots of awards so [TS]

01:26:13   yeah I ok I guess L Sean oh this is not [TS]

01:26:19   fair you know I know why would you do [TS]

01:26:22   this to me i know i'm doing it to myself [TS]

01:26:23   to I don't know what I'm even gonna say [TS]

01:26:25   that was gone haha man it is no are you [TS]

01:26:31   torn between a few i'm torn between [TS]

01:26:33   three yeah because I answer Justice [TS]

01:26:37   stranger no laundry and the column and [TS]

01:26:39   the gene you're all i think really [TS]

01:26:41   incredible novels for very different [TS]

01:26:43   reasons I don't know I maybe I'd lean a [TS]

01:26:47   little bit more towards the latter two [TS]

01:26:48   just in terms of the out of the gate [TS]

01:26:51   quality because I think ancillary [TS]

01:26:53   justice in some cases a little uneven [TS]

01:26:54   but I understand why it got picked [TS]

01:26:56   because it makes total sense that gets [TS]

01:26:59   an ambitious freaking novel [TS]

01:27:01   yeah I mean I i well let's just say the [TS]

01:27:04   golem in the genie around but like it's [TS]

01:27:07   like 11 billion of a percentage point [TS]

01:27:10   about so you know I could I could read [TS]

01:27:13   the others again and then it could swing [TS]

01:27:15   the other way [TS]

01:27:16   sure that we don't feel bad about myself [TS]

01:27:17   later I am I am torn between government [TS]

01:27:21   Jeannie ancillary justice and the ocean [TS]

01:27:23   at the end of the lane actually those [TS]

01:27:25   three and and you know and i think we [TS]

01:27:27   are all completely [TS]

01:27:28   beside ourselves would be up there with [TS]

01:27:31   it for me other than the fact like i [TS]

01:27:33   said i'm going to disqualify it only [TS]

01:27:34   because it's not really science fiction [TS]

01:27:36   but I like I loved it too but those are [TS]

01:27:39   the other three I have a hard time with [TS]

01:27:40   picking among all of them and you know [TS]

01:27:43   if you ask me today i might go back to [TS]

01:27:46   the one that i read the longest time ago [TS]

01:27:47   which is the ocean at the end of the [TS]

01:27:49   lane [TS]

01:27:49   I you know it's I think it's easy there [TS]

01:27:51   a way we talk about to first novels and [TS]

01:27:54   neil gaiman right and it's easy to just [TS]

01:27:56   be like look it's me okay man he's fine [TS]

01:27:58   he doesn't need to win anymore awards [TS]

01:28:00   everybody knows who he is and that's [TS]

01:28:02   true but boy that's a really really good [TS]

01:28:05   book i really enjoyed it but at the same [TS]

01:28:08   time you know Chancellor justices is a a [TS]

01:28:11   really good example of a science modern [TS]

01:28:14   science fiction novel and you know it's [TS]

01:28:19   a good book but it also is a very much a [TS]

01:28:23   science fiction novel in the tradition [TS]

01:28:25   of the genre so at the end of the day i [TS]

01:28:29   would i would have to flip a coin [TS]

01:28:31   between neil gaiman and and telling [TS]

01:28:33   workers come in the genie is just depend [TS]

01:28:35   on how i was feeling that day and it [TS]

01:28:37   would be tough for me too because all [TS]

01:28:39   three of those books are really good and [TS]

01:28:41   that's it's nice to have such good books [TS]

01:28:43   on a list especially I gotta say this is [TS]

01:28:47   a pretty good list scott and i have read [TS]

01:28:49   the hugo nominees the last few years and [TS]

01:28:51   that has not always been a pleasant [TS]

01:28:53   experience some of those books are not [TS]

01:28:56   books we liked at all and i had no [TS]

01:28:59   experience like that with these books [TS]

01:29:01   no I liked all of these books yeah yeah [TS]

01:29:04   these these books all have things to [TS]

01:29:06   record even stranger laundry which I did [TS]

01:29:08   not love because of the reasons I I [TS]

01:29:10   enumerated i can't i can't deny it being [TS]

01:29:14   well written and I see why people would [TS]

01:29:16   really like it because it is a it is a [TS]

01:29:18   very carefully constructed high-quality [TS]

01:29:20   well-written book even though I didn't [TS]

01:29:22   love it and that that's yeah that's [TS]

01:29:25   pretty good crop yeah imagine if we had [TS]

01:29:27   to actually vote on this in the hugo [TS]

01:29:29   award [TS]

01:29:31   yeah that would be like there be people [TS]

01:29:33   fighting each other just be a very [TS]

01:29:35   terrifying experience with all those all [TS]

01:29:38   those good things I said about you know [TS]

01:29:40   and and then we also about the red first [TS]

01:29:42   light of the seven books I probably read [TS]

01:29:45   it I probably rank at seventh and it's a [TS]

01:29:48   good book [TS]

01:29:49   it's not a bad look at all and then [TS]

01:29:52   there's Hills which i did read some who [TS]

01:29:54   knows it's a question mark where we go [TS]

01:29:56   good job nebula I mean look at things [TS]

01:29:59   Scott didn't answer the question though [TS]

01:30:01   Scott oh yeah Jason doesn't care about [TS]

01:30:02   my opinion I do because Scott this is [TS]

01:30:04   the big question is answered justice was [TS]

01:30:06   your favorite book of last year in the [TS]

01:30:07   goldman the genie is your favorite book [TS]

01:30:09   so far this year [TS]

01:30:10   you must choose i must choose well I [TS]

01:30:14   think if I were depends on how i was [TS]

01:30:18   going to vote a like if the contractor [TS]

01:30:21   to put around my vote if i was going to [TS]

01:30:22   vote for the book that i think would win [TS]

01:30:24   although now I know which one win and I [TS]

01:30:27   would vote for Chancellor justice [TS]

01:30:29   because i think could pick it did win [TS]

01:30:30   that is amazing [TS]

01:30:32   just because of what we what everyone [TS]

01:30:34   has said before it's kind of like it's a [TS]

01:30:35   bold kind of ambitious science fiction [TS]

01:30:39   me d science fiction book that is just [TS]

01:30:42   like yes you should give this book a [TS]

01:30:44   science fiction award it deserves our [TS]

01:30:46   one award with a spaceship on that it's [TS]

01:30:49   not exactly trophy with a spaceship yeah [TS]

01:30:51   whereas i love the gold in the genie so [TS]

01:30:53   if I were just voting for the book that [TS]

01:30:55   I like the most [TS]

01:30:55   I would pick the goal in the genie but [TS]

01:30:57   it feels weird to give that book a [TS]

01:31:00   science fiction or even though i know [TS]

01:31:01   this is science fiction and fantasy when [TS]

01:31:04   answer justice is in the mix I wouldn't [TS]

01:31:07   be outraged if any of these books have [TS]

01:31:09   1i would have question maybe fire with [TS]

01:31:11   fire but i still like fire with fire so [TS]

01:31:14   of any of them what I think we're going [TS]

01:31:16   to find pic whereas you said past hugo [TS]

01:31:19   nominees I would have been outraged [TS]

01:31:21   friend books 1 alright so I Goldman [TS]

01:31:26   Goldman the genie is the one that you [TS]

01:31:28   would probably pick if you had to pick [TS]

01:31:29   if I was voting with my heart [TS]

01:31:31   alright I'm outnumbered [TS]

01:31:34   yeah but not the but it's like by the [TS]

01:31:37   thinnest of margins right i mean [TS]

01:31:39   everybody agrees how good ancillary [TS]

01:31:42   justices to maybe if I [TS]

01:31:43   read The Golem the genie i would i would [TS]

01:31:45   make I would make this unanimous wraps [TS]

01:31:47   his paws find out [TS]

01:31:49   yeah but get public calls say something [TS]

01:31:52   really cool about answer Justice real [TS]

01:31:54   quick that one little thing the the the [TS]

01:31:57   incredible use of language and pronouns [TS]

01:32:00   and genders and explore exploring [TS]

01:32:02   exploring that in in a science-fiction [TS]

01:32:05   space opera setting in a way that few [TS]

01:32:08   authors dare to do these days [TS]

01:32:10   ok answer justice gets my vote again how [TS]

01:32:12   I i was going to pile on and say [TS]

01:32:14   ancillary justice [TS]

01:32:16   I i think you know we said this on our [TS]

01:32:19   podcast we did about it I i think it [TS]

01:32:21   gets kind of / praise for the gender [TS]

01:32:22   issues they're there but I feel like [TS]

01:32:24   what I said at the time was I don't feel [TS]

01:32:26   like that's a book about gender so much [TS]

01:32:28   as it's a book about identity and and so [TS]

01:32:30   although the gender thing is really [TS]

01:32:32   interesting what i think is fantastic is [TS]

01:32:35   that it's about identity on a broad [TS]

01:32:38   scale like literally if you're a [TS]

01:32:40   spaceship with hundreds of ancillary [TS]

01:32:42   Ruiz who are you [TS]

01:32:44   and then if you're collapse down into [TS]

01:32:45   one who are you [TS]

01:32:47   if you are an emperor who can speak [TS]

01:32:50   duplicates of yourself and now there are [TS]

01:32:52   you force yourself into different bodies [TS]

01:32:54   who who's the real you is there one who [TS]

01:32:56   are you I mean there's so many different [TS]

01:32:57   a gender is one part of identity or [TS]

01:33:01   perhaps the books arguing not as [TS]

01:33:03   important a part of the identity but but [TS]

01:33:06   that's what this book is about it's like [TS]

01:33:08   who are who are you [TS]

01:33:09   what is identity and we talked about [TS]

01:33:12   ambitious first novel broad sci-fi [TS]

01:33:15   canvas and this topic of identity of the [TS]

01:33:18   core of it just like I amazing she has [TS]

01:33:21   written a few stories before one of [TS]

01:33:23   which was never gonna be late as i [TS]

01:33:24   recall [TS]

01:33:25   yes so yes this is not our first rodeo [TS]

01:33:28   but this is the first long rodeo and [TS]

01:33:30   it's a bad it's an interesting ambitious [TS]

01:33:32   and she she nailed it so you know [TS]

01:33:34   there's no shame and in voted for [TS]

01:33:36   ancillary justice i think we all give up [TS]

01:33:38   fraction of our vote to it if we could [TS]

01:33:40   write just split it and it's imaginary [TS]

01:33:42   so let's say we did [TS]

01:33:43   hey [TS]

01:33:45   and just remember the Hugo's have a [TS]

01:33:47   preferential voting system so yeah now [TS]

01:33:50   when i wrote down my choices here I did [TS]

01:33:51   actually write numbers next to them [TS]

01:33:53   figure like you guys I didn't write down [TS]

01:33:55   no award because I'm you know they're [TS]

01:33:58   all good [TS]

01:33:59   that's where grant was nothing we could [TS]

01:34:01   we get there is no mere grad so we [TS]

01:34:02   didn't have to do that you got any way I [TS]

01:34:04   I've got parasite on my bedside [TS]

01:34:07   nightstand [TS]

01:34:09   I already checked out from the library [TS]

01:34:10   because it was not made available in the [TS]

01:34:12   hugo packet so i just checked it up in [TS]

01:34:14   the library and i'm reading parasite [TS]

01:34:16   right now i'll be dipping into that [TS]

01:34:18   because you gotta read all the human [TS]

01:34:19   omni's to that's another podcast you [TS]

01:34:22   guys I it was really fun to bring in [TS]

01:34:24   bringing the ringers the science-fiction [TS]

01:34:26   ringers for many other podcasts who and [TS]

01:34:28   and get more voices to read these uh all [TS]

01:34:32   these these many many many books it was [TS]

01:34:35   a lot of fun to talk about books for for [TS]

01:34:38   an overnight with you it was it was a [TS]

01:34:39   pleasure we did snatch one earring [TS]

01:34:41   comparable people for one of our podcast [TS]

01:34:44   our podcast so I guess we're returning [TS]

01:34:45   the favor [TS]

01:34:46   it was America yeah yeah I I think [TS]

01:34:49   technically she's she's verities and we [TS]

01:34:52   already she's not here a lot yeah we [TS]

01:34:53   what we're trying to do you know where [TS]

01:34:55   we're she's on extended loan to us by [TS]

01:34:58   capital but it's it's nice i like i like [TS]

01:35:01   the mixing of all the people all over [TS]

01:35:03   the place so it's it's I think it's [TS]

01:35:05   really cool tab people and that's one [TS]

01:35:06   reason I wanted you guys on is is it's a [TS]

01:35:09   kind of fun to let the people who listen [TS]

01:35:11   to this show here you guys and then you [TS]

01:35:13   know they can they can follow you back [TS]

01:35:14   to these many other podcast that that [TS]

01:35:17   you're on and and again i have to point [TS]

01:35:19   out the hugo nominated skippy and [TS]

01:35:21   fantasy and Hugo nominated SF signal so [TS]

01:35:24   not bad pretty nice and the america of [TS]

01:35:27   course for the hugo nominated Verity [TS]

01:35:29   great category podcasts can't get a [TS]

01:35:31   great category our favorite and the [TS]

01:35:35   incomparable Hugo nominated adjacent [TS]

01:35:37   haha cool the more people we invite on [TS]

01:35:41   her humor nominees eventually you know [TS]

01:35:43   we will be as if we were nominated for [TS]

01:35:46   that i'm just gonna click onto my all [TS]

01:35:48   some of us did nominate you [TS]

01:35:50   it just like that's very that's very [TS]

01:35:52   kind of you i i i believe I'm not [TS]

01:35:54   allowed to nominate myself so i did [TS]

01:35:55   yesterday I can I know anything okay [TS]

01:35:57   I i nominated nominated [TS]

01:35:59   I nominated both of those podcasts the [TS]

01:36:02   SF signal the skiff and fancy and also [TS]

01:36:04   Verity so who says my nominees don't get [TS]

01:36:06   picked up three of them did a podcast [TS]

01:36:09   category all right so thank you fred [TS]

01:36:12   kiss you've been here from the as a [TS]

01:36:14   listener from the beginning it was nice [TS]

01:36:16   to have you on and people can hear you [TS]

01:36:19   SF signal and the three horsemen correct [TS]

01:36:22   that's correct mr. alright I a pleasure [TS]

01:36:25   to finally have you on in person [TS]

01:36:28   I appreciate it Palmer many podcasts [TS]

01:36:31   including skippy and fantasy and SF [TS]

01:36:33   signal any others that you want to [TS]

01:36:34   mention any other plugs you would like [TS]

01:36:36   to do before we go [TS]

01:36:36   yeah I I think I did all my plugs and [TS]

01:36:39   skipping fancy is my major home and [TS]

01:36:42   that's a single they let me on now and [TS]

01:36:43   again and maybe they will get on the [TS]

01:36:45   horn again someday if the Fred cannot [TS]

01:36:48   unbarred the door for me will say very [TS]

01:36:51   nice very nice and Sean Duke skippy and [TS]

01:36:54   fanti really fun podcast I've been [TS]

01:36:56   enjoying listening you've got a whole [TS]

01:36:58   bunch of different episodes too i was in [TS]

01:36:59   your Babylon 5 watch episodes which were [TS]

01:37:01   fun [TS]

01:37:02   yeah just lots of good stuff there [TS]

01:37:05   anything else you'd like to plug your [TS]

01:37:07   going to London we just don't know what [TS]

01:37:09   you're eating yet [TS]

01:37:10   yeah i don't know what i'm eating that [TS]

01:37:11   i'll be in that country somehow i'll be [TS]

01:37:14   arriving on boat in a crate nice i was [TS]

01:37:17   sleeping on this top deck of a [TS]

01:37:18   double-decker bus most likely yeah yeah [TS]

01:37:21   it's a good way to get around but I [TS]

01:37:23   guess you just say my personal blog [TS]

01:37:25   which is the world in a satin bag and [TS]

01:37:27   the website is just w is B dot blog [TS]

01:37:29   spot.com great i will put those links in [TS]

01:37:31   the show notes to for people who want to [TS]

01:37:33   check that out and can't break things [TS]

01:37:36   down when they're listening to a podcast [TS]

01:37:37   because that you know you're probably [TS]

01:37:38   driving when you're listening to this [TS]

01:37:40   and don't stop to write things down [TS]

01:37:41   because you'll crash and die that would [TS]

01:37:44   be bad well if you stopped and yeah you [TS]

01:37:46   can stop and write it down that's true [TS]

01:37:47   just will not not like suddenly in the [TS]

01:37:49   middle of the street I guess is what I'm [TS]

01:37:51   saying why did you stop sir well I'd [TS]

01:37:53   write down the name of a blog that until [TS]

01:37:57   I and Scott we don't think i'm not going [TS]

01:37:58   to forget you where where can people [TS]

01:37:59   listen to you Scott if [TS]

01:38:02   we're just listen to the inner voice [TS]

01:38:04   inside of you and that would be you [TS]

01:38:07   that's me obvious yeah that's where i'll [TS]

01:38:08   be there when whenever there's a man [TS]

01:38:11   reading science fiction novel whenever [TS]

01:38:13   there's a lady reading science fiction [TS]

01:38:15   novel writing a first novel and getting [TS]

01:38:16   nominated winning an award [TS]

01:38:18   I'll be there watch out his life now [TS]

01:38:20   Scott is there watching us right [TS]

01:38:23   luckily no scary i was trying to do what [TS]

01:38:26   what is that is that a shadow no no i'll [TS]

01:38:29   be there that some groups rap is that it [TS]

01:38:31   yeah that's what I was going for their [TS]

01:38:33   or the shadow Scott yeah sure [TS]

01:38:35   for the uncomfortable I've been jason l [TS]

01:38:39   thank you for listening I hope you found [TS]

01:38:41   some really good book suggestions that [TS]

01:38:43   you can read and stay tuned we'll be [TS]

01:38:44   back in a month or two with a hugo [TS]

01:38:47   nominees podcasts one if it if everybody [TS]

01:38:50   reads the books I know Scott and I will [TS]

01:38:51   lead them as we did alright thanks for [TS]

01:38:54   listening [TS]

01:38:55   goodbye [TS]