Roderick on the Line

Ep. 172: "Gain Stages"


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00:00:28   [Music] [TS]

00:00:32   hello hi John hi Merlin as it going good [TS]

00:00:39   I feel loose [TS]

00:00:41   oh good glad to hear that feel like a [TS]

00:00:43   longneck goose [TS]

00:00:45   mm-hmm don't think her felt like that [TS]

00:00:48   really the you know the the way you [TS]

00:00:51   measure looseness is on a scale of [TS]

00:00:53   Gustavus 02 goose me everything I wonder [TS]

00:00:59   what kind of animal I'd be if you were [TS]

00:01:00   feeling loose was feeling loose I'm [TS]

00:01:03   thinking maybe like a like a sloth you [TS]

00:01:06   know just because it just seems it seems [TS]

00:01:07   very laid-back slot slot seems loose [TS]

00:01:10   yeah I could subpoena goose not as [TS]

00:01:13   losses along that goose [TS]

00:01:15   mm that's the standard high looseness [TS]

00:01:18   sound good you sound using your voice is [TS]

00:01:20   very full o more fuller than can be [TS]

00:01:25   accounted for by microphone setup [TS]

00:01:27   hmm sounds always sounds fly i got a new [TS]

00:01:30   mic I'm still getting used to it [TS]

00:01:32   how do you like it i think i like it [TS]

00:01:33   it's unfortunately get it sounds bigger [TS]

00:01:36   but it brings out a range of my voice [TS]

00:01:37   that I can't hear very well I can get [TS]

00:01:40   that Bob Mould problem you know [TS]

00:01:41   mmm collaborate oh well you know is upon [TS]

00:01:45   you probably should have but I I think [TS]

00:01:47   I've lost some part of the range of [TS]

00:01:49   hearing accounted for by very loud [TS]

00:01:52   electric guitars and female voices [TS]

00:01:54   mm so yeah you've got a little you've [TS]

00:01:56   got a little v-shaped pivot there [TS]

00:01:58   looking like when I would go back like I [TS]

00:02:00   really like the sugar albums but when [TS]

00:02:02   you listen to them they reflect the [TS]

00:02:04   production of somebody who kind of can't [TS]

00:02:06   hear me very well you know talking about [TS]

00:02:08   oh I do i do i do that all the time all [TS]

00:02:11   the time a lot of my people cannot hear [TS]

00:02:14   the mid-range especially the kind of the [TS]

00:02:17   high mid and do you account for that by [TS]

00:02:19   rock shows or would you say you lost [TS]

00:02:22   more hearing listening to loud music on [TS]

00:02:24   headphones or speakers [TS]

00:02:26   mmm i think that's from rehearsals from [TS]

00:02:29   band rehearsals like two or three nights [TS]

00:02:31   a week of having an orange amp in my [TS]

00:02:33   face during a time when it was [TS]

00:02:35   understood that you needed to the [TS]

00:02:37   biggest amp you can afford right and you [TS]

00:02:40   need and everybody in the band agreed [TS]

00:02:41   that they needed the biggest and they [TS]

00:02:43   could afford [TS]

00:02:43   it's you know it's funny when you put it [TS]

00:02:45   that way I mean the you know I don't [TS]

00:02:48   know one of the guys the other guitar [TS]

00:02:49   player main guitar player in the band [TS]

00:02:50   was kind of a gear nutso he was always [TS]

00:02:53   getting new things but mostly play with [TS]

00:02:54   an orange half stack and I always had [TS]

00:02:57   some kind of janky you know portable amp [TS]

00:02:59   just mic'd up and you know for most [TS]

00:03:00   situations on stage you just don't need [TS]

00:03:02   you know we all grew I think part of it [TS]

00:03:04   is we came up with stuff like van Halen [TS]

00:03:07   men and so you'll you will remember a [TS]

00:03:10   time in the eighties or what you wanted [TS]

00:03:12   was a Marshall stack em that she needed [TS]

00:03:15   what is it like to 410 cabinets and a [TS]

00:03:18   jcm head or 12 Kevin 412like who needs [TS]

00:03:21   that who really needs that well you know [TS]

00:03:26   we believe that all the way through the [TS]

00:03:28   nineties and looking back at it I don't [TS]

00:03:32   really understand because and the things [TS]

00:03:35   I i was there i remember very distinctly [TS]

00:03:38   feeling like my hundred and twenty wat [TS]

00:03:42   Sound City head through a 4-12 cabinet [TS]

00:03:46   was like the bare minimum of what i [TS]

00:03:50   needed to perform at least that's your [TS]

00:03:53   traveling gear yet to perform unsalted [TS]

00:03:55   butter in a room for 350 people and [TS]

00:03:59   later I traveled with a 15 watt amp [TS]

00:04:02   right and and still had soundmen in [TS]

00:04:07   far-flung places like can you turn the [TS]

00:04:09   guitar down a little bit like that i [TS]

00:04:12   don't know it was a it was a mass [TS]

00:04:13   delusion I when I want that first tour [TS]

00:04:16   that the Western State hurricanes did [TS]

00:04:18   with death cab for cutie back in 1999 i [TS]

00:04:22   took a defender pro river which is 35 [TS]

00:04:27   watt 212 amplifier what's that way I [TS]

00:04:30   mean it's heavy and it's also i mean [TS]

00:04:34   they're wonderful wonderful amps but I [TS]

00:04:37   routinely felt like I was underpowered [TS]

00:04:41   couldn't hear myself onstage tip the amp [TS]

00:04:45   back in order in a pointing it right at [TS]

00:04:47   my head [TS]

00:04:48   so that i could so that i could monitor [TS]

00:04:51   myself and it's like what was it was a [TS]

00:04:55   it was a collective insanity where I was [TS]

00:04:58   standing up there thinking to myself [TS]

00:05:00   this is this is important possibly small [TS]

00:05:04   amp and I only brought it on tour [TS]

00:05:05   because we didn't have room for the full [TS]

00:05:07   rig and now I'm at a disadvantage here [TS]

00:05:10   with only 35 watts and it's nuts [TS]

00:05:14   it's bananas but picture because you're [TS]

00:05:17   you're if you're in a situation where [TS]

00:05:18   you're not trying to i mean this isn't [TS]

00:05:20   like the era of cream where I guess and [TS]

00:05:23   the conventional wisdom that i've heard [TS]

00:05:25   is that one thing that made creme big [TS]

00:05:27   was that they could fill the auditorium [TS]

00:05:29   with their sound but also that was the [TS]

00:05:30   first time the PAS we're getting pretty [TS]

00:05:32   good so you could play loud and you [TS]

00:05:35   could they could hear you and you could [TS]

00:05:36   hear yourself and that was supposedly at [TS]

00:05:38   the technology of what I mean the [TS]

00:05:40   original idea of course right was that [TS]

00:05:42   there you didn't make the amplifiers [TS]

00:05:45   into the PA the PA was struggling just [TS]

00:05:47   to get your voice loud enough and so if [TS]

00:05:50   you wanted your guitar to be heard in [TS]

00:05:51   the back of the auditorium you need a [TS]

00:05:53   big amp to to fill the space but by the [TS]

00:05:55   time I came alone that I mean it wasn't [TS]

00:05:59   like ps4 a thousand times better now [TS]

00:06:01   that's a technology that has evolved [TS]

00:06:04   with leaps and bounds pa pa equipment is [TS]

00:06:06   so much better now than it was when I [TS]

00:06:08   was starting out and yet even then it [TS]

00:06:11   was more than loud enough to get oh you [TS]

00:06:14   know like to make a small amp and [TS]

00:06:16   especially for like a club or like you [TS]

00:06:18   know for a planner you are [TS]

00:06:19   yeah it's my understanding is that Neil [TS]

00:06:22   Young has been playing through a 5 watt [TS]

00:06:23   amp for the last 40 years and he he has [TS]

00:06:27   all those amps on stage he does have [TS]

00:06:28   that one super big amp that he only [TS]

00:06:30   turns on sometimes but most of his tone [TS]

00:06:33   is coming from like a like a fender [TS]

00:06:35   champ behind a curtain [TS]

00:06:37   haha you put in the station wagon that's [TS]

00:06:40   how I understand it [TS]

00:06:41   yeah but it's all it's funny like I [TS]

00:06:43   don't want to overstate this because i [TS]

00:06:44   don't have a strong feeling about this [TS]

00:06:46   but it's a little bit like I remember [TS]

00:06:48   having this feeling where the other kind [TS]

00:06:50   of man had this great always had much [TS]

00:06:52   better equipment me he had more money [TS]

00:06:54   and access any cared more so he was [TS]

00:06:55   always getting like [TS]

00:06:57   no new Gibson's eat you'll get a new [TS]

00:06:59   danelectro get a new one every but you [TS]

00:07:01   know it always had great great amps so I [TS]

00:07:03   one point had settled into I had a i [TS]

00:07:07   think i'm gonna say softech head with [TS]

00:07:10   this little crummy old Gibson am that i [TS]

00:07:12   was using as a quote-unquote cabinet but [TS]

00:07:14   like it was dinky on stage it was on a [TS]

00:07:15   chair and it didn't feel again don't [TS]

00:07:18   want to overstate this I don't want to [TS]

00:07:20   make this strictly a penis thing but i [TS]

00:07:21   have one or two guys in the band have [TS]

00:07:23   like a giant like a like what was that [TS]

00:07:25   cool base camp custom like one of those [TS]

00:07:27   big cushy you know like the big bass [TS]

00:07:30   amps that the padding on [TS]

00:07:31   yeah you would those our customers I I [TS]

00:07:33   would I would hesitate to call them i [TS]

00:07:35   mean they're very cool looking right i [TS]

00:07:37   would i would say they're super it looks [TS]

00:07:38   good it looks like it looks very rock [TS]

00:07:40   and roll you know to have something that [TS]

00:07:41   looks like a cross between a cabinet and [TS]

00:07:43   a couch and I've got this you know [TS]

00:07:45   little girl and Kruger size thing on a [TS]

00:07:46   chair [TS]

00:07:47   it isn't what they think of the same [TS]

00:07:49   original visual impact you know but you [TS]

00:07:52   know but the Gallagher's a fun example [TS]

00:07:53   because when that came when they [TS]

00:07:55   remember first hearing one of those at [TS]

00:07:57   at thoroughbred music and what 85-86 you [TS]

00:08:02   know like these little little amps that [TS]

00:08:04   could produce such such a range in such [TS]

00:08:06   a great amount i'm not saying it's like [TS]

00:08:08   the greatest amp in the world but like [TS]

00:08:10   you know I think it didn't it didn't [TS]

00:08:12   sell with the rock and roll guys because [TS]

00:08:13   it just didn't look impressive enough [TS]

00:08:17   you know all of this knowledge that we [TS]

00:08:19   have of eighties and nineties and in [TS]

00:08:24   some cases seventies and sixties and [TS]

00:08:26   fifties guitar and bass and vocal and [TS]

00:08:31   drum amplification and technology all [TS]

00:08:34   this knowledge is just useless now or [TS]

00:08:38   it's like it feels it feels so uh huh [TS]

00:08:42   that's like the I an entire room in my [TS]

00:08:48   brain is taken up with shelf after shelf [TS]

00:08:50   after shelf just like the matrix except [TS]

00:08:53   instead of machine guns it's the shelves [TS]

00:08:55   and shelves of knowledge about our qatar [TS]

00:08:59   Arcana and I spent so much time thinking [TS]

00:09:02   about and analysis and lost like tears [TS]

00:09:05   in rain [TS]

00:09:05   well like what am I supposed to do with [TS]

00:09:07   it now I'm not ordinary living there was [TS]

00:09:09   it i usually played sometimes I play [TS]

00:09:11   with one distortion pedal for a while I [TS]

00:09:13   play with to distortion pedals and for a [TS]

00:09:14   time I had three [TS]

00:09:15   well I could tell when I could tell you [TS]

00:09:17   well I'd like this distortion ok is but [TS]

00:09:20   I could explain why yes I could explain [TS]

00:09:22   why the the other just about to explain [TS]

00:09:25   them well the fuzz box and the rat and [TS]

00:09:28   the and the cool little was little [TS]

00:09:32   orange pedal where you can simulate [TS]

00:09:34   feedback what was that called because [TS]

00:09:36   the winter [TS]

00:09:37   yeah but I mean it was it was a pretty [TS]

00:09:38   cool distortion pedal and if you held it [TS]

00:09:40   made a really obnoxious fake feedbacks [TS]

00:09:42   out don't forget to put your hands [TS]

00:09:44   no no it was it was a stop box it was [TS]

00:09:46   made by oh I see if you if you put your [TS]

00:09:48   foot on it and held it there was a [TS]

00:09:50   roland pedal but the thing was but it [TS]

00:09:52   was a pretty ok like it was by third [TS]

00:09:54   hand distortion box but everybody I can [TS]

00:09:57   explain circuit 1998 like they were all [TS]

00:10:00   for different reasons and you use them [TS]

00:10:02   differently together and like everybody [TS]

00:10:04   who like cared about like having a [TS]

00:10:05   guitar sound oh yeah well I'm not going [TS]

00:10:07   to use always use the built-in [TS]

00:10:09   distortion on the amp I mean that's kind [TS]

00:10:11   of money and weird with this I could use [TS]

00:10:13   this fuzz like this big was a big like [TS]

00:10:16   Russian was a big muffin was called [TS]

00:10:17   something marvelous about softech [TS]

00:10:20   because a soft tech yeah it was a big [TS]

00:10:21   softech that was great for a buzzy sound [TS]

00:10:23   but if you wanted to just kick in for a [TS]

00:10:25   slightly piercing guitar sound you hit [TS]

00:10:27   the other pedal [TS]

00:10:28   which boost the signal little bit a [TS]

00:10:30   little bit of my so so yeah I mean [TS]

00:10:32   honestly why do you need three [TS]

00:10:33   distortion effects you don't owe unless [TS]

00:10:35   you do and yes you do too [TS]

00:10:37   yes and likely with Orbeez that you put [TS]

00:10:39   them in like you put the you're gonna [TS]

00:10:41   have a phaser that use once during the [TS]

00:10:42   show you know you put that last you [TS]

00:10:44   would not put that before the distortion [TS]

00:10:45   and I mean I'm not even good at this [TS]

00:10:47   stuff and I know this and it now I I [TS]

00:10:48   have nobody teaching no one cares that [TS]

00:10:50   you're describing a signal chain and [TS]

00:10:52   specifically you're describing the gain [TS]

00:10:55   stages of a signal chain i'm listening [TS]

00:10:57   and anymore i have spent a lot of time [TS]

00:11:01   thinking about game gain stages because [TS]

00:11:04   the thing that the thing is i like to [TS]

00:11:05   use a clean boost you know my sound is [TS]

00:11:09   this is this is this is one of the one [TS]

00:11:12   of the tragedies for me was going out on [TS]

00:11:14   tour listening to a lot of bands really [TS]

00:11:16   envying guys that had a real fuzzy sound [TS]

00:11:21   like you know not a surf had a very very [TS]

00:11:24   distorted very saturated we call it [TS]

00:11:27   sound but for the guitar parts that i [TS]

00:11:30   played my particular sound required a [TS]

00:11:33   very clean boosted sound for your style [TS]

00:11:37   for your long and throw your guitar you [TS]

00:11:39   have a guitar that benefits from that [TS]

00:11:41   cell that's right a very clean sound if [TS]

00:11:43   I if I got a really nice like very [TS]

00:11:45   satisfying saturated sound then as soon [TS]

00:11:48   as the band would start playing it [TS]

00:11:50   didn't have the articulation that i [TS]

00:11:51   wanted i couldn't hear you know that put [TS]

00:11:54   playing playing playing that I liked and [TS]

00:11:56   so my gain stages i always had [TS]

00:11:59   well not always but I tried to also have [TS]

00:12:01   three but two of those were really kind [TS]

00:12:05   of just a they were just boosts which is [TS]

00:12:09   to say they they and so it so it depends [TS]

00:12:15   it was it it was was very important to [TS]

00:12:19   know how you wanted to arrange those [TS]

00:12:21   those boots because if you boost the [TS]

00:12:24   signal into something that has a ceiling [TS]

00:12:28   write something that's compressed that [TS]

00:12:32   boost just just kind of goes in there [TS]

00:12:35   and gets compressed by the by the [TS]

00:12:37   compressor further down the band as what [TS]

00:12:39   st. 44 later somebody who doesn't [TS]

00:12:42   care it's a little bit think about like [TS]

00:12:43   the order to do the dishes in you don't [TS]

00:12:45   you don't you don't know that you don't [TS]

00:12:46   dry the dishes before you clean them [TS]

00:12:47   come on you i mean there's that right [TS]

00:12:50   there is an order you do them in its [TS]

00:12:51   optimal and you get good at that and [TS]

00:12:52   that's kind of what you're describing [TS]

00:12:53   here is nothing like what it is you're [TS]

00:12:55   trying to accomplish at each stage of [TS]

00:12:56   that and not having it work across [TS]

00:12:57   purposes you don't drive the dishes [TS]

00:13:00   before your washer that's pretty good [TS]

00:13:01   huh right and so and the thing is late [TS]

00:13:03   at that goes all the way to the amp that [TS]

00:13:06   goes all the way to the front end of the [TS]

00:13:07   amp because some amps have a master [TS]

00:13:10   volume and the master volume is a kind [TS]

00:13:12   of like limit on how much the head is [TS]

00:13:16   gonna light up and some amps don't and [TS]

00:13:19   so if you send a boost into an amp with [TS]

00:13:21   a master volume you're going to get a [TS]

00:13:23   very different response from the from [TS]

00:13:26   the head from the tubes inside of your [TS]

00:13:28   head then if you send that boost to an [TS]

00:13:30   app that doesn't have a master volume is [TS]

00:13:32   just sitting there waiting to get all [TS]

00:13:36   this added hot signal sent to it and [TS]

00:13:40   that's why I ended up you know i love i [TS]

00:13:43   love I've tried every kind of amp i know [TS]

00:13:46   i can name every kind of nut but you [TS]

00:13:49   know you end up your end up going back [TS]

00:13:51   to those fender amps those simple fender [TS]

00:13:54   amps because if you send something into [TS]

00:13:56   the the front of a Fender amp it's going [TS]

00:13:59   to like lift and it's going to send all [TS]

00:14:02   this beautiful and shiny really amplify [TS]

00:14:04   the sound that's right and and and and [TS]

00:14:06   then it will accept fender amplifier [TS]

00:14:10   will accept additional power coming into [TS]

00:14:14   the into the channel like it will it [TS]

00:14:16   just embraces all this hotted up [TS]

00:14:19   electricity and it's just going to send [TS]

00:14:21   that right back to you in the form of [TS]

00:14:23   rock-and-roll band is a gracious host [TS]

00:14:26   mmm exactly so I want my daughter so [TS]

00:14:29   much time thinking about this and I and [TS]

00:14:30   all that time and up to people who are [TS]

00:14:32   not in bands and who have probably [TS]

00:14:34   already turned off this program [TS]

00:14:36   you know what you end up doing is you're [TS]

00:14:38   sitting cross-legged on the floor on the [TS]

00:14:40   bottom section of dirty carpet in your [TS]

00:14:42   band rehearsal studio while no one else [TS]

00:14:44   is there and you are chaining together [TS]

00:14:47   all your effects pedals and switching [TS]

00:14:50   them around and putting this one in [TS]

00:14:53   front of that one and now in front of [TS]

00:14:54   this one and imagining if you only had [TS]

00:14:57   one additional pedal how different would [TS]

00:14:59   be how everyone would finally understand [TS]

00:15:02   what you were trying to say with your [TS]

00:15:03   guitar instrument I mean hours and hours [TS]

00:15:06   and hours in these dark and musty rooms [TS]

00:15:10   figuring out this stuff which now i feel [TS]

00:15:17   like i feel like there should i should [TS]

00:15:18   be sitting in front of a room of of 20 [TS]

00:15:20   year olds all sitting cross-legged on [TS]

00:15:22   the floor all tried to hook up their [TS]

00:15:24   boxes and I would be pacing around the [TS]

00:15:26   front of the room saying now listen you [TS]

00:15:28   have to remember if you send a stereo [TS]

00:15:31   signal into a mono input you're going to [TS]

00:15:34   get up you're going to get a summing and [TS]

00:15:36   that's going to create a you're going to [TS]

00:15:39   lose a lot of the in the end they would [TS]

00:15:41   all be wrapped that's right i'll be [TS]

00:15:43   taking notes that they have a notebook [TS]

00:15:44   they have a notebook there they're like [TS]

00:15:46   there's they're stopping what they're [TS]

00:15:48   doing right there like oh my god was [TS]

00:15:49   about to do that and it was just like [TS]

00:15:51   okay here's what we what we need to do i [TS]

00:15:52   think the last thing so you know you [TS]

00:15:55   have a compressor pedal in your chain [TS]

00:15:57   this is a big question it's a subtle [TS]

00:15:59   effect but i ended up using the [TS]

00:16:01   compressor pedal a lot at me at the end [TS]

00:16:05   or the end of my career I'm sorry I mean [TS]

00:16:07   that the way you put it in your only [TS]

00:16:09   don't I don't think you want to put it [TS]

00:16:10   toward that you don't think when [TS]

00:16:11   political us sound going through the [TS]

00:16:13   distortion and yeah you want you want [TS]

00:16:16   some compression in there cuz what is [TS]

00:16:19   distortion Merlin if not compression em [TS]

00:16:23   right what is distortion of not [TS]

00:16:25   compression or what does compression [TS]

00:16:26   produce if not distortion but you don't [TS]

00:16:29   want that you know you put that at the [TS]

00:16:30   end of your signal chain and all you're [TS]

00:16:32   doing is you're just squeezing through a [TS]

00:16:34   toilet paper that big thank you [TS]

00:16:36   so i have this knowledge I feel like [TS]

00:16:40   some I feel like a Saturn 5 engineer who [TS]

00:16:43   is wandering around NASA headquarters [TS]

00:16:45   during the Space Shuttle era trying to [TS]

00:16:49   talk to people about the saturn and no [TS]

00:16:53   one cares anymore they're like that's [TS]

00:16:55   great you got us to the moon Gramps but [TS]

00:16:57   you know what [TS]

00:16:58   now we're up here with the multicultural [TS]

00:17:01   cast of astronauts don't know more than [TS]

00:17:03   short sleeve white shirts [TS]

00:17:05   nope take your pick your pocket [TS]

00:17:07   protector out and go gently into this [TS]

00:17:10   good night because we don't give a shit [TS]

00:17:13   anymore about your dumb guitar knowledge [TS]

00:17:15   and nice pivot you know and and you [TS]

00:17:20   think about it it was one of those [TS]

00:17:21   things that from 1977 to 1997 we were [TS]

00:17:29   building on a body of knowledge in that [TS]

00:17:30   entire time it seems like this will [TS]

00:17:32   always be relevant that's the amazing [TS]

00:17:34   thing about about reaching Middle Ages [TS]

00:17:36   you see like how we had 20 years there [TS]

00:17:39   where it it never seemed like that [TS]

00:17:40   knowledge was going to stop being useful [TS]

00:17:42   it seemed like you were building on it [TS]

00:17:44   and I was not alone [TS]

00:17:46   tens and tens of thousands of people [TS]

00:17:48   were also building up tremendous like [TS]

00:17:52   guitar knowledge goes for so many [TS]

00:17:56   technologies that because I mean to a [TS]

00:17:57   large extent also really true for [TS]

00:17:59   computers like the end of the corpus of [TS]

00:18:02   data and pseudo data about using Mac's [TS]

00:18:04   in particular that i have in my head the [TS]

00:18:06   end of that is also kind of represents i [TS]

00:18:10   would say the mid mid to late nineties [TS]

00:18:11   when I feel like I didn't know the most [TS]

00:18:14   most technically specifically like down [TS]

00:18:16   to the metal about those computers but i [TS]

00:18:17   knew a lot about like making them work [TS]

00:18:19   better or like what software to use to [TS]

00:18:22   make this thing happen like I knew a lot [TS]

00:18:23   of that stuff and that's all that's all [TS]

00:18:25   tears and rain is that right well I mean [TS]

00:18:27   you know by and large is all kinds of [TS]

00:18:28   things where you could be a wizard by [TS]

00:18:30   knowing obviously start with something [TS]

00:18:31   like turn it off and on but then you [TS]

00:18:33   also get to something like oh you know [TS]

00:18:35   rebuild your desktop on the mac or [TS]

00:18:37   throughout your tcp/ip perhaps you know [TS]

00:18:39   out of the system folder and all these [TS]

00:18:41   little things were like there's always [TS]

00:18:42   little wizard things we had this array [TS]

00:18:44   of stuff i think that's true for guitar [TS]

00:18:45   stuff i think it's true for certainly [TS]

00:18:47   got to be true for stereo equipment [TS]

00:18:49   I mean how many people even like [TS]

00:18:50   own and according to Hoyle stereo [TS]

00:18:52   anymore I remember the first time you [TS]

00:18:54   told me to turn my computer off and then [TS]

00:18:57   back on again [TS]

00:18:58   you do yeah because I was like what [TS]

00:19:00   what's that gonna do when you're like [TS]

00:19:02   listen trust me on this [TS]

00:19:05   sometimes it works miracles was like oh [TS]

00:19:08   ok I'll do of turn your computer on [TS]

00:19:11   whatever you say break and then it was [TS]

00:19:14   like okay your gums coming back on and [TS]

00:19:18   then it worked and it was like what [TS]

00:19:20   happened Merlin how did that how did you [TS]

00:19:22   know that that was going to work and you [TS]

00:19:24   have this a lot of this you know long [TS]

00:19:26   explanation about like well you know [TS]

00:19:28   sometimes they just need to rest is the [TS]

00:19:30   together get confused [TS]

00:19:32   yeah and they just need it just needs to [TS]

00:19:33   reestablish all the all the album Eno [TS]

00:19:38   all the phone calls establish all the [TS]

00:19:40   phone calls rewire all of the electrodes [TS]

00:19:44   that's right needs to just rewrite the [TS]

00:19:45   encryption it needs to get a hack into [TS]

00:19:48   the mainframe it needs to it needs to [TS]

00:19:50   repair those permissions on Jack andrey [TS]

00:19:53   Jack matrix and so just do it and and I [TS]

00:19:58   was like then that became Wow go to [TS]

00:20:00   problem solver kit first thing first [TS]

00:20:04   tool in the toolbox turn the computer [TS]

00:20:05   off tumbling it's very humbling [TS]

00:20:08   yeah yeah I'm gonna feel like turning [TS]

00:20:10   this computer off right now just to see [TS]

00:20:12   what would happen that's but often weeks [TS]

00:20:14   oh really that's nice to hear yeah I i [TS]

00:20:19   decided i don't know year or two ago [TS]

00:20:22   that I just gonna stop turning my [TS]

00:20:23   computer off i was just going to put it [TS]

00:20:24   to sleep [TS]

00:20:25   that's fine and that seems to be fine [TS]

00:20:28   yeah I I feel like God you know people [TS]

00:20:31   like I think in the unix community yeah [TS]

00:20:32   I've always had a certain point of pride [TS]

00:20:34   about like what they're up time is like [TS]

00:20:35   i haven't had to restart my computer in [TS]

00:20:37   six months or whatever like the evening [TS]

00:20:39   with my phone like now that I've got [TS]

00:20:41   phones that have touch ID and stuff like [TS]

00:20:42   that [TS]

00:20:43   I I don't like restarting the phone [TS]

00:20:45   there are times where I go uh things not [TS]

00:20:47   working my kids game is not working and [TS]

00:20:49   I know I know I'm Merlin man I'm the [TS]

00:20:52   go-to gizmo guy like i know that if i [TS]

00:20:54   hard reset this phone if I hold down the [TS]

00:20:56   home key and the sleep button and make [TS]

00:20:58   it restart like it will probably be fine [TS]

00:21:01   but then I've got a reactor password [TS]

00:21:03   sometime [TS]

00:21:03   that haha did you literally restart your [TS]

00:21:09   computer [TS]

00:21:11   what happened while restarting my all of [TS]

00:21:18   a sudden you're your voice went all [TS]

00:21:24   robot and then it all went it all went [TS]

00:21:26   to shit and I felt like it was a clear [TS]

00:21:30   case of the of the ghost in the machine [TS]

00:21:33   hearing us and feeling like it was going [TS]

00:21:36   to X it was going to show us exactly [TS]

00:21:37   exactly how to repair some permissions [TS]

00:21:41   by just all--just shit the bed [TS]

00:21:46   have you guys ever tried running the [TS]

00:21:48   wireless diagnostic and hope I this [TS]

00:21:52   episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:21:54   brought to you in part by Squarespace [TS]

00:21:56   you can learn more about Squarespace [TS]

00:21:58   right now by pointing your web browser [TS]

00:22:00   at squarespace.com as many of you know [TS]

00:22:02   I've been a huge fan and evangelists a [TS]

00:22:05   square space for many years now it's not [TS]

00:22:07   only the place that I use for hosting [TS]

00:22:09   many of my own sites and yes my own [TS]

00:22:11   podcasts it's also the first place i [TS]

00:22:13   recommend for anyone wanting to do the [TS]

00:22:15   same [TS]

00:22:16   Squarespace sites are professionally [TS]

00:22:18   designed masterpieces they look great [TS]

00:22:19   right out of the box regardless of your [TS]

00:22:21   skill level there's zero coding notary [TS]

00:22:23   required and they offer intuitive and [TS]

00:22:26   easy-to-use tools to take all the pain [TS]

00:22:27   out of getting your stuff up [TS]

00:22:29   Squarespace has state-of-the-art [TS]

00:22:30   technology powering your site that [TS]

00:22:32   ensure security and stability even if [TS]

00:22:35   you get a link from Roderick on the line [TS]

00:22:37   Squarespace is trusted by millions of [TS]

00:22:39   people and some of the most respected [TS]

00:22:40   brands in the world the nutty part is [TS]

00:22:43   that Squarespace plans start at a very [TS]

00:22:45   affordable eight dollars per month and [TS]

00:22:48   that price even includes a free domain [TS]

00:22:49   name if you sign up for a year which you [TS]

00:22:51   should totally do please check [TS]

00:22:53   Squarespace out and tell your friends [TS]

00:22:54   about it you can start your free trial [TS]

00:22:56   site today with no credit card required [TS]

00:22:58   by visiting squarespace.com and when [TS]

00:23:01   you're ready to buy make sure to use [TS]

00:23:03   that very special offer code super [TS]

00:23:05   training you will get ten percent off [TS]

00:23:07   your first purchase our thanks to [TS]

00:23:09   squarespace for supporting rod on the [TS]

00:23:11   line and all the great shows [TS]

00:23:13   Squarespace build it beautiful [TS]

00:23:16   oh the wireless setup assistant yes he [TS]

00:23:20   comes in a little tuxedo holding a tray [TS]

00:23:23   and he says is your is your modem on [TS]

00:23:28   well I can't help you thanks for trying [TS]

00:23:35   yeah that's what your frustration with [TS]

00:23:39   the wireless connectivity troubleshooter [TS]

00:23:42   is where the delights of my life but [TS]

00:23:44   some it makes me so mad I don't see how [TS]

00:23:47   anyone could defend it if I worked at [TS]

00:23:49   Apple in whatever job i had an apple I [TS]

00:23:52   would immediately request a transfer [TS]

00:23:54   into the diagnostic Department you call [TS]

00:23:59   you call a meeting everybody in here [TS]

00:24:00   everybody everybody in the conference [TS]

00:24:02   room please let's go so nicely are gonna [TS]

00:24:05   change around here i would say what [TS]

00:24:07   exactly do you think your product does [TS]

00:24:10   oh you have like you have a John [TS]

00:24:12   Roderick as Steve Jobs moment where you [TS]

00:24:14   would say what is what is your what is [TS]

00:24:15   your job here what does this is what is [TS]

00:24:17   this thing supposed to do [TS]

00:24:18   that's right that's right and now what [TS]

00:24:21   does it do what it's supposed to do what [TS]

00:24:23   do you imagine people turn to your [TS]

00:24:25   product to do well is to help people [TS]

00:24:27   diagnose whether their wireless is [TS]

00:24:29   working properly far just thought the [TS]

00:24:31   door was like sugar program and I would [TS]

00:24:34   be like fired fired fired i could go out [TS]

00:24:38   into the street and get 25 people random [TS]

00:24:41   people walking around a mall and they [TS]

00:24:44   would have a better understanding of how [TS]

00:24:45   to build a diagnostic system than you [TS]

00:24:50   ding-a-lings have been working here [TS]

00:24:51   since the dawn of time I feel like it's [TS]

00:24:53   the let's probably the last refuge of [TS]

00:24:54   scoundrels an apple all the guys that [TS]

00:24:57   have been there since the eighties and [TS]

00:24:59   up at diagnostics because it still works [TS]

00:25:02   like it still works exactly like the [TS]

00:25:04   computer that my it still works like my [TS]

00:25:06   imac classic just like well I'm having [TS]

00:25:11   some problems i'm going i don't know [TS]

00:25:12   what the problem is let's go 20 [TS]

00:25:13   diagnostic that seems like that word [TS]

00:25:16   means well and for folks who are just [TS]

00:25:18   out problem folks were just coming out [TS]

00:25:20   of this right now it seems like in [TS]

00:25:21   summary what happens with you say [TS]

00:25:23   something's not working so you go to the [TS]

00:25:24   diagnostic tool and then the result of [TS]

00:25:26   the diagnostic tool is that what you [TS]

00:25:28   just check this network [TS]

00:25:29   that's right all it is always the same [TS]

00:25:31   which is here are here hard the six [TS]

00:25:34   steps we understand with all are [TS]

00:25:38   involved turning something off and on [TS]

00:25:39   and when that doesn't want that [TS]

00:25:41   inevitably does not solve the problem [TS]

00:25:43   there's no for no further information [TS]

00:25:46   it's impossible to glean anything from [TS]

00:25:49   this tool it doesn't say anything [TS]

00:25:52   specific although it knows more and [TS]

00:25:54   that's what's frustrating the diagnostic [TS]

00:25:56   tool has to know more than it is [TS]

00:25:57   revealing and so you you wonder whose [TS]

00:26:00   side are you on diagnostic tool do you [TS]

00:26:03   work for me [TS]

00:26:04   do you live in my computer are you my [TS]

00:26:06   friend you belong to me are you my [TS]

00:26:08   advocate here [TS]

00:26:09   uh-huh or are you collecting for nation [TS]

00:26:13   in which you feel like I'm either not [TS]

00:26:16   ready to hear not able to understand or [TS]

00:26:18   are you collecting information on behalf [TS]

00:26:20   of someone else and and I'm just and [TS]

00:26:23   you're just telling your just [TS]

00:26:24   functionary in a train station on the [TS]

00:26:27   Slovakian border who has one stamp and [TS]

00:26:32   if you cannot put the stamp in the [TS]

00:26:33   passport then there's not there's no [TS]

00:26:35   further conversation to be had [TS]

00:26:37   it's almost as though you have a [TS]

00:26:39   technology and extremely sophisticated [TS]

00:26:40   technology for finding your lost car [TS]

00:26:43   keys but in order to use it you have to [TS]

00:26:45   have your car keys in your hand exactly [TS]

00:26:46   it works flawlessly as long as you have [TS]

00:26:49   the key in your hand [TS]

00:26:50   that's right as not only does not [TS]

00:26:51   actually lost it works fine it's not [TS]

00:26:53   that he's a what what do i do what do i [TS]

00:26:56   do I had them here the whole time Thank [TS]

00:26:58   You diagnostic tool but it's like golly [TS]

00:27:01   I'd really like to figure out what could [TS]

00:27:02   possibly be wrong that was because this [TS]

00:27:04   is what's amazing to me there can't [TS]

00:27:08   really be that many things wrong like [TS]

00:27:11   the the computer is never going to come [TS]

00:27:13   to you and say there's too much salt in [TS]

00:27:18   it in the in the water or the computers [TS]

00:27:21   never going to come to you and say no [TS]

00:27:23   one ever loved you as a child like the [TS]

00:27:26   computer is only going to say a few [TS]

00:27:27   things in addition to the things it says [TS]

00:27:29   right is going to say like here's the [TS]

00:27:32   amount of signal i'm getting from your [TS]

00:27:36   modem and it's the and it's in here are [TS]

00:27:38   the steps type of signals that I like to [TS]

00:27:41   get in here the ones I don't [TS]

00:27:43   here are the this is what this signal is [TS]

00:27:45   telling me but you know what you're [TS]

00:27:47   doing is you're sitting in a room you're [TS]

00:27:48   looking over here [TS]

00:27:49   wireless thing which is which Oh again [TS]

00:27:52   it only has five lights and those lights [TS]

00:27:54   are blinking and the so so that machine [TS]

00:27:58   to the best of its ability is telling [TS]

00:28:00   you I'm fine I'm fine I'm fine I'm fine [TS]

00:28:04   I'm fine and then the computer is [TS]

00:28:07   sitting right where I mean within within [TS]

00:28:09   like it could be could reach out and [TS]

00:28:11   touch the other thing and it's telling [TS]

00:28:14   you like don't get help you don't know [TS]

00:28:16   don't know don't know [TS]

00:28:18   and somewhere between those two there's [TS]

00:28:20   more information available and I feel [TS]

00:28:23   like it's a it may be a situation where [TS]

00:28:25   i need a dongle [TS]

00:28:26   mmm has some additional lights and the [TS]

00:28:28   dongle is gonna maybe some kind of a [TS]

00:28:31   dashboard that maybe seems to me like [TS]

00:28:33   you want something that goes deeper into [TS]

00:28:35   the human issues that will be nice if it [TS]

00:28:37   like let's take an obvious one nam [TS]

00:28:40   results of the diagnostic comcast sucks [TS]

00:28:42   like if you could say to you writing [TS]

00:28:44   sample like oh I when I checked on the [TS]

00:28:46   internet and I found out that there's an [TS]

00:28:48   outage in your area or maybe I know this [TS]

00:28:50   is this is all just blue sky solution [TS]

00:28:52   hearing what if it said something like [TS]

00:28:53   you just need a new cable for this [TS]

00:28:55   mm there you go write your guide you [TS]

00:28:58   forgot to turn off dropbox and that's [TS]

00:29:00   taking all of your bandwidth which I [TS]

00:29:02   think all your bandwidth precisely what [TS]

00:29:04   does the word that a diagnostic could [TS]

00:29:05   use these are these are simple [TS]

00:29:08   this is a simple additional level of [TS]

00:29:10   Diagnostics like I remember back in the [TS]

00:29:13   early days of the long winters when [TS]

00:29:15   Wi-Fi was still very much an exotic and [TS]

00:29:19   wonderful thing we needed a special card [TS]

00:29:22   the jam into the side of your computer [TS]

00:29:23   yes Eric Corson bass player of the long [TS]

00:29:26   winters and former employee of the apple [TS]

00:29:30   store i'm sorry the mac store former [TS]

00:29:33   employee of the mac store [TS]

00:29:34   oh he worked for an off-brand a [TS]

00:29:36   third-party yeah we work for a [TS]

00:29:38   third-party Apple distributor Eric had a [TS]

00:29:43   had a Wi-Fi card antenna thing but he [TS]

00:29:48   also had some kind of program which I [TS]

00:29:53   never took the time to develop an [TS]

00:29:55   understanding of didn't seem important [TS]

00:29:57   at the time and we would drive around in [TS]

00:30:01   the van in the middle of the night [TS]

00:30:02   because we would invariably be like [TS]

00:30:04   showing up in some town in the middle of [TS]

00:30:06   the night and he would have his computer [TS]

00:30:09   in his lap and his little is little [TS]

00:30:11   antenna and he'd be we'd be seeking [TS]

00:30:14   Wi-Fi signal what you're looking for [TS]

00:30:16   here is it was called a Wi-Fi sniffer it [TS]

00:30:18   was a sniffer sniffer is putting its [TS]

00:30:20   little electronic nose up in the air and [TS]

00:30:22   saying is there Wi-Fi can I sniff it [TS]

00:30:24   that's right he was sniffing and we were [TS]

00:30:26   we were on the on the hook right driving [TS]

00:30:29   slowly that van in gear just idling [TS]

00:30:33   through these times i remember one night [TS]

00:30:34   in in like creepy things have been going [TS]

00:30:38   very slowly by her house was slender man [TS]

00:30:40   is hunched over his computer looking at [TS]

00:30:42   your window but we were in des moines [TS]

00:30:44   one night and des moines is a town [TS]

00:30:47   I don't know the last time you were [TS]

00:30:48   there but des moines is a town that [TS]

00:30:49   really rolls up the sidewalks after dark [TS]

00:30:51   and so it's a it's kind of a big town [TS]

00:30:54   but at night at least in the early 2000s [TS]

00:30:59   still at night [TS]

00:31:01   there is nothing going on it's just big [TS]

00:31:03   open streets of the western town and not [TS]

00:31:07   a not a car in any direction and we're [TS]

00:31:10   driving through this down and Eric's [TS]

00:31:12   like well oh I'm getting something I [TS]

00:31:14   mean I it felt like we were ghost [TS]

00:31:16   hunters and then you know but his little [TS]

00:31:20   his little sniffer had more information [TS]

00:31:24   about what about the signals he was [TS]

00:31:26   getting and like it was more useful [TS]

00:31:29   information then then any sort of [TS]

00:31:34   diagnostic tool on any computer i've [TS]

00:31:37   ever had you know it was just like turn [TS]

00:31:39   right turn right like and I don't know [TS]

00:31:41   whether he was pretending whether he was [TS]

00:31:43   he was faking at and and I was gullible [TS]

00:31:45   and on the hook spelling it like a storm [TS]

00:31:48   chasing crew [TS]

00:31:49   yeah but we would eventually pull up in [TS]

00:31:51   front of some strange little motel that [TS]

00:31:53   would have like really hot Wi-Fi signal [TS]

00:31:55   or a panera bread and of strip mall [TS]

00:31:58   somewhere that was close but was still [TS]

00:32:00   broadcasting on password protected Wi-Fi [TS]

00:32:02   and we would sit there in the parking [TS]

00:32:05   lot all of us [TS]

00:32:06   charged over our our old laptops Wi-Fi [TS]

00:32:11   and all those those were thrilling times [TS]

00:32:14   and that and you know and that's what I [TS]

00:32:17   want I want I want my diagnostic program [TS]

00:32:20   on my computer to be a kind of sniffer [TS]

00:32:22   that sniffing out problems [TS]

00:32:25   that's right and saying like you know [TS]

00:32:26   what the problem is here the problem is [TS]

00:32:29   injustice improbable or the promise you [TS]

00:32:33   didn't want it enough or I shouldn't you [TS]

00:32:35   be doing something else [TS]

00:32:37   yeah the problem is extremely specific [TS]

00:32:38   that goes way beyond just with the bits [TS]

00:32:40   and bytes [TS]

00:32:41   yeah right like the all the diagnostic [TS]

00:32:43   the only solution that offers you are [TS]

00:32:45   turning your modem on them on and off [TS]

00:32:47   turn your computer on and off [TS]

00:32:49   is there a third option no I think [TS]

00:32:51   that's it I mean it'sit's it ask these [TS]

00:32:53   questions like is your computer plugged [TS]

00:32:55   in i hear you asking whether this [TS]

00:32:56   application might actually be a prank i [TS]

00:33:00   do feel like it's a prank because [TS]

00:33:02   there's got to be [TS]

00:33:04   I'm thinking of one infinite loop now no [TS]

00:33:07   I'm thinking of one cupertino plaza [TS]

00:33:09   that's where they send the people that [TS]

00:33:13   aren't what if it loop anymore [TS]

00:33:14   yeah one cupertino plaza which is kind [TS]

00:33:16   of a sixties style police headquarters [TS]

00:33:18   they just got the brown building and [TS]

00:33:21   upstairs on the 14th floor there has got [TS]

00:33:23   to be a section with the point where the [TS]

00:33:26   where the frosted front glass door says [TS]

00:33:29   you know lost and found property section [TS]

00:33:32   diagnostics and you go through that door [TS]

00:33:36   and there's you know there's a there's a [TS]

00:33:39   big long desk and and it's like a scene [TS]

00:33:41   out of the movie Brazil but they've got [TS]

00:33:43   to be 20 people working there right 20 [TS]

00:33:46   people let's say working in that section [TS]

00:33:48   it's not just one [TS]

00:33:50   hey you like harry reid person in a [TS]

00:33:53   green visor it's a team and they have [TS]

00:33:57   done nothing they have done nothing they [TS]

00:33:59   are sucking off the teat of that Apple [TS]

00:34:03   largesse and they had a sucking off the [TS]

00:34:07   teat of lecture that's yeah and no one [TS]

00:34:09   else know I apparently no one in that [TS]

00:34:11   company ever uses that because they they [TS]

00:34:14   know the lat [TS]

00:34:15   the last time they tried to use it was [TS]

00:34:17   1998 didn't do anything and so they [TS]

00:34:19   unlike me never tried again yeah they [TS]

00:34:22   they don't keep going back trying to get [TS]

00:34:25   a different result of the same dumb tool [TS]

00:34:28   maybe I sold themselves by reading your [TS]

00:34:29   bug reports and reading everything log [TS]

00:34:31   files about how frustrated your here's [TS]

00:34:34   the thing i believe it never submitted [TS]

00:34:36   buggin ya work i never submit a bug [TS]

00:34:39   report because that is how that's how [TS]

00:34:41   they get the hooks in you that's how the [TS]

00:34:42   NSA figures out that you're a complainer [TS]

00:34:44   haha you know and they put us before you [TS]

00:34:49   get you pegged as a bellyache ER your [TS]

00:34:52   belly acre you're sending these bug [TS]

00:34:54   reports they're like we got a live one [TS]

00:34:55   over here and you know there are plenty [TS]

00:34:57   of plenty of people out there who are [TS]

00:34:59   submitting informed bug reports but my [TS]

00:35:03   bug reports would all be what the fuck [TS]

00:35:05   is wrong with your stupid-ass company [TS]

00:35:07   and I'd get on some list my mom's been [TS]

00:35:10   saying this to me my whole life don't [TS]

00:35:11   get on a list [TS]

00:35:12   you don't got a list don't get on a list [TS]

00:35:14   of belly acres because listen Billy [TS]

00:35:17   acres i personally don't my mom [TS]

00:35:20   subscribe to a worldview where their [TS]

00:35:22   list of belly acres our alcohol so I [TS]

00:35:24   understand so it could be something [TS]

00:35:25   where you call into comcast and say the [TS]

00:35:27   diagnostic says nothing's broken [TS]

00:35:29   what's going on with your with your with [TS]

00:35:30   your internet setup and suddenly your [TS]

00:35:32   accounts flag your belly acre yeah men [TS]

00:35:35   from then on every time you call to [TS]

00:35:37   complain they route your call through [TS]

00:35:39   some special bank of operators who are [TS]

00:35:41   there to deal with problem customers now [TS]

00:35:45   my mom's worldview is a little bit more [TS]

00:35:47   paranoid and she people it is that that [TS]

00:35:50   like there's some list at 911 or the [TS]

00:35:52   police department they're like we don't [TS]

00:35:53   send cars out to them they're crazy [TS]

00:35:55   oh but i know enough people in the [TS]

00:35:59   police department and with the EMTs [TS]

00:36:02   where they do the EMTs do you say we go [TS]

00:36:06   to that person all the time they are [TS]

00:36:07   just restarted my computer there's [TS]

00:36:10   nothing open not in safari is up but I'm [TS]

00:36:13   not even looking at pictures of old cars [TS]

00:36:14   google drive has been trying to get me [TS]

00:36:17   to do something I don't I don't know [TS]

00:36:22   what sign back in to Google Drive that's [TS]

00:36:24   happening on it [TS]

00:36:25   Apple drive whatever their apple drive [TS]

00:36:28   has been for the last for the last two [TS]

00:36:32   months [TS]

00:36:32   every time I go into by a apple mail on [TS]

00:36:37   my phone [TS]

00:36:38   let's see what the thing pops up here [TS]

00:36:41   and it says I go to reply to somebody's [TS]

00:36:44   email and that says although sign in to [TS]

00:36:47   iCloud over the Apple ID password [TS]

00:36:51   this is on your on your phone on my [TS]

00:36:52   phone and at some point i don't i don't [TS]

00:36:55   know how i got signed out of iCloud I [TS]

00:36:59   think maybe I change i don't know i [TS]

00:37:01   changed [TS]

00:37:01   sometimes that there's a bug that went [TS]

00:37:03   around recently where sometimes you have [TS]

00:37:05   to sign in three times right and at a [TS]

00:37:09   certain point the first time it was it [TS]

00:37:14   likes through that flag up i tried to [TS]

00:37:17   sign into it and nothing happened and [TS]

00:37:21   and maybe I tried a second time and [TS]

00:37:23   nothing happened so i just closed the [TS]

00:37:26   window and realize that i could continue [TS]

00:37:28   to send email i didn't have to be signed [TS]

00:37:30   in to iCloud to do any things that my [TS]

00:37:32   phone wants to do and so it became [TS]

00:37:35   another thing that I just ignore and it [TS]

00:37:39   throws up that the excitement iCloud and [TS]

00:37:40   I go close and then I said it's just one [TS]

00:37:42   more step one more vaguely irritating [TS]

00:37:45   step and I don't know what happened and [TS]

00:37:47   whether that means that none of my stuff [TS]

00:37:49   is being backed up to the clewd but [TS]

00:37:52   around your connection right now is [TS]

00:37:54   really really bad i think you might get [TS]

00:37:56   a bellyache your list do you think that [TS]

00:37:59   I should restart my modem ok this is all [TS]

00:38:04   so bitterly ironic you guys should do it [TS]

00:38:07   should I open up the window of my office [TS]

00:38:09   and shout I Matabele but i wanna get [TS]

00:38:13   anymore [TS]

00:38:14   all right let's uh let's disconnect the [TS]

00:38:16   kitchen and see if we can fix it i'm [TS]

00:38:18   gonna read I'm going to restart my moat [TS]

00:38:20   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:38:24   brought to you in part by braintree code [TS]

00:38:27   for easy online payments to learn more [TS]

00:38:29   right now please visit braintree [TS]

00:38:31   payments dot-com / supertrain if you're [TS]

00:38:35   a mobile app developer and I know many [TS]

00:38:36   of you out there are please do check out [TS]

00:38:38   braintree braintree is the payment [TS]

00:38:40   solution that is used by companies like [TS]

00:38:42   uber Airbnb hotel tonight [TS]

00:38:45   being social and monetary some pretty [TS]

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00:38:48   braintree has made the payment [TS]

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00:39:10   problem of mobile cart abandonment by [TS]

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00:39:14   experience you've got to check this out [TS]

00:39:16   for yourselves bring she gives you a [TS]

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00:39:20   I mean support for all the payment types [TS]

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00:39:26   venmo cards and more all with a single [TS]

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00:39:37   learn more and for your first fifty [TS]

00:39:39   thousand dollars in transactions be free [TS]

00:39:41   please go to braintree payments dot-com [TS]

00:39:44   / supertrain thanks to braintree for [TS]

00:39:47   taking the pain out of mobile payments [TS]

00:39:48   and for supporting Roderick on the laws [TS]

00:39:50   and started up and you sound pretty good [TS]

00:39:54   did it [TS]

00:39:56   I mean I checked my diagnostic tool and [TS]

00:39:59   it is that restart your modem restart [TS]

00:40:01   your computer [TS]

00:40:02   yeah well you know what will give it a [TS]

00:40:03   spin welcome back everybody has run here [TS]

00:40:06   and not stick huh [TS]

00:40:09   I uh I can't prove this and I'm going to [TS]

00:40:12   have to do some experimenting previous [TS]

00:40:15   but i'm pretty sure i've been banned by [TS]

00:40:16   a thai restaurant really i think i'm on [TS]

00:40:19   the belly acre list [TS]

00:40:20   how so walk me through it okay i'll give [TS]

00:40:24   you the facts in evidence facts and [TS]

00:40:26   evidence are that there is a restaurant [TS]

00:40:27   so we use this app eat24 you know it's [TS]

00:40:31   like one of those you know online [TS]

00:40:32   delivery apps which you know as it turns [TS]

00:40:34   out most restaurants hate because it's a [TS]

00:40:36   real pain in the butt for them like you [TS]

00:40:37   know if you have a restaurant this point [TS]

00:40:39   you have to have like five iPads running [TS]

00:40:40   all the time to see all the orders [TS]

00:40:41   coming in and sleep they hated like [TS]

00:40:43   please just call us please just let me [TS]

00:40:45   use this place was really easy and makes [TS]

00:40:46   it easy like reorder what you've gotten [TS]

00:40:48   before [TS]

00:40:48   see just like reorder what I got next [TS]

00:40:50   time it's just I place that we really [TS]

00:40:51   like like it's okay i mean like you know [TS]

00:40:53   it's the food is really good delivery is [TS]

00:40:56   pretty spotty but ok [TS]

00:40:58   we used to order for them like [TS]

00:40:59   constantly like a lot like you know [TS]

00:41:01   sometimes once a week and you know is [TS]

00:41:05   that they say that the service and [TS]

00:41:07   delivery was spotty so I had a little [TS]

00:41:09   bit of a bee in my bonnet but so what [TS]

00:41:10   about the service was spotty didn't come [TS]

00:41:15   sometimes sometimes have you ever had an [TS]

00:41:20   experience with delivery or even a [TS]

00:41:22   restaurant let it easy like let's see [TS]

00:41:24   you go to a restaurant and it's not the [TS]

00:41:25   greatest service in the world but the [TS]

00:41:26   food's pretty good you say hey you know [TS]

00:41:28   we ordered you know 25 minutes ago right [TS]

00:41:31   is how's everything going on I can you [TS]

00:41:33   know it'll be a few minutes [TS]

00:41:34   how you doing back there and then it's [TS]

00:41:36   three hours later and they're still [TS]

00:41:37   saying like oh it will be out in a few [TS]

00:41:38   minutes [TS]

00:41:39   you know what i mean but yeah nothing [TS]

00:41:40   really just actually just give me the [TS]

00:41:42   report like if there's not gonna happen [TS]

00:41:44   tonight just tell me and we'll have [TS]

00:41:46   something else right and it's nice that [TS]

00:41:48   you know the difference between a place [TS]

00:41:49   that's like here you know here I here's [TS]

00:41:52   an appetizer sorry for the problem or [TS]

00:41:55   like your cup your coffees on me even as [TS]

00:41:57   a small thing but those places that come [TS]

00:41:59   that that you know that bring the thing [TS]

00:42:02   like an hour later and it's cold and [TS]

00:42:04   it's got a booger on it yep and then [TS]

00:42:07   they're just like charge of the full [TS]

00:42:08   price [TS]

00:42:09   it's not really so far off from a kind [TS]

00:42:12   of United Airlines experience of like [TS]

00:42:14   well you know the planes gonna be [TS]

00:42:15   delayed i had this coming actually [TS]

00:42:17   heading out to portland on my last [TS]

00:42:19   flight where it's like there was [TS]

00:42:21   something right or the story is really [TS]

00:42:22   boring story but basically it's one of [TS]

00:42:24   those things really look it's gonna be [TS]

00:42:25   six hours [TS]

00:42:26   tell me it was gonna be cancelled can [TS]

00:42:28   you just tell me like just tell me if [TS]

00:42:29   it's canceled that's ok but they don't [TS]

00:42:31   want to cancel the flight [TS]

00:42:32   maybe in this case didn't want to cancel [TS]

00:42:33   the order anyway i'm certain you [TS]

00:42:36   everybody's had experiences like this so [TS]

00:42:38   in the case of this one place i guess i [TS]

00:42:40   don't remember the details its kind of [TS]

00:42:42   foggy all I know is they really ate [TS]

00:42:44   booger one night like big time they [TS]

00:42:46   screwed up the order they weren't [TS]

00:42:47   responding [TS]

00:42:48   maybe they did that thing where they [TS]

00:42:49   took it to the street instead of the [TS]

00:42:51   avenue that happens all the time but it [TS]

00:42:53   was was a total clusterfuck and I i [TS]

00:42:56   called and i was like what is going on I [TS]

00:42:58   was really mad friday night watching TV [TS]

00:43:00   it's like it's eating night right it's [TS]

00:43:02   time to eat this is the night that week [TS]

00:43:03   it was the one night we eat this is the [TS]

00:43:05   night we have television and like you [TS]

00:43:07   know I was like forty dollars with the [TS]

00:43:08   thai food somewhere presumably [TS]

00:43:10   and you know i have to say i am i'm not [TS]

00:43:13   so much this guy anymore but I can still [TS]

00:43:16   kind of sometimes be this guy if I'm [TS]

00:43:18   super mad and I got a bunch of [TS]

00:43:20   hard-earned money going into thai food [TS]

00:43:21   that might be somewhere that makes me [TS]

00:43:23   frustrated a certain point especially [TS]

00:43:24   when I feel like I'm not getting the [TS]

00:43:26   whole story [TS]

00:43:26   oh now wait a minute and this is through [TS]

00:43:28   an app right so the money is already [TS]

00:43:29   gone [TS]

00:43:30   he's already tomorrow initially I [TS]

00:43:32   working through there was something I I [TS]

00:43:34   don't remember there's been some [TS]

00:43:35   problems this place there's things like [TS]

00:43:37   we didn't have what you wanted and you [TS]

00:43:38   didn't call us to say you want to [TS]

00:43:39   substitute the computer went down and we [TS]

00:43:41   had no way to call you [TS]

00:43:42   there's all these different things that [TS]

00:43:43   happen you know a lot of is probably the [TS]

00:43:45   fault of these middle persons so usually [TS]

00:43:47   you deal with the middle persons you [TS]

00:43:48   never seen a messaging window talking to [TS]

00:43:51   them [TS]

00:43:51   long story short I need to know for the [TS]

00:43:52   story is i'm sure i was at least half a [TS]

00:43:55   dick with them but they did really screw [TS]

00:43:57   up and they were and it was just [TS]

00:43:59   everything about the experience was [TS]

00:44:01   really poor and they handled badly and [TS]

00:44:03   to some extent probably I handled it [TS]

00:44:04   badly I was not as kind as I can be [TS]

00:44:07   yes very very kind I'm actually i accede [TS]

00:44:10   you've seen me i'm a polite and kind [TS]

00:44:13   person you're very kind and you're very [TS]

00:44:14   polite especially with strangers [TS]

00:44:16   yes my friends got no time for but I so [TS]

00:44:20   flash-forward I think we might have [TS]

00:44:22   ordered I feel like we may be able to [TS]

00:44:23   gain but i'm only knows another friend [TS]

00:44:25   that comes along and were like oh well [TS]

00:44:26   let's give it a throw again we get the [TS]

00:44:28   order we see repeat this order [TS]

00:44:30   everything is going fine until i get to [TS]

00:44:31   the checkout it says em we can't deliver [TS]

00:44:34   to this address [TS]

00:44:35   well that tells me that the app tells me [TS]

00:44:37   that can deliver to this adrenaline so [TS]

00:44:40   maybe they changed their coverage area [TS]

00:44:42   i'm thinking i might try ordering today [TS]

00:44:43   even from have it delivered to my office [TS]

00:44:46   and see what happens to you so fucking [TS]

00:44:47   smart [TS]

00:44:48   I have a feeling they got put on a list [TS]

00:44:50   as a bellyache ER haha i think that [TS]

00:44:52   think its ramifications you got put on a [TS]

00:44:54   bellyache your list and now they don't [TS]

00:44:56   deliver to your zone III think I've been [TS]

00:44:58   dzone I've been red line wow so do you [TS]

00:45:03   use the do you use the uber service [TS]

00:45:06   yes and are you are as as i understand [TS]

00:45:10   it now from following along the Twitter [TS]

00:45:13   machine [TS]

00:45:14   yep over to review is going on [TS]

00:45:18   Cooper rates you you rate / / rates you [TS]

00:45:21   okay now how's your how's your rating as [TS]

00:45:24   a [TS]

00:45:24   customer I'm so I'm so embarrassed but [TS]

00:45:27   every aspect of the story i'll avoid the [TS]

00:45:31   the apologetics and shame i think it was [TS]

00:45:33   a terrible company [TS]

00:45:34   unfortunately I've had maybe two cabs [TS]

00:45:36   ever come to my house because of where i [TS]

00:45:38   live right to end up using over or in [TS]

00:45:40   the case of being a Portland it was just [TS]

00:45:42   it was super easiest way and I feel like [TS]

00:45:43   a bad person let's say that for another [TS]

00:45:44   episode [TS]

00:45:45   ok now here's my problem i'm talking [TS]

00:45:47   about this other places but I if i'm [TS]

00:45:49   reading my own music if i'm reading [TS]

00:45:51   anything I treat five stars like a [TS]

00:45:55   serious thing [TS]

00:45:56   no you're not going to get 5 stars2 just [TS]

00:45:58   any old oh my god [TS]

00:45:59   well here's the thing and I I've had to [TS]

00:46:01   really think about this because i think [TS]

00:46:03   it should be like a bell curve i think [TS]

00:46:05   most of the reviews for stuff is [TS]

00:46:06   probably going to be a 3mm if everything [TS]

00:46:09   and so here's my rate in the past and [TS]

00:46:10   I'm going somewhere with this in the [TS]

00:46:11   past my feeling has been if everything [TS]

00:46:14   went as well as could be expected plus [TS]

00:46:16   or minus twenty percent up well and plus [TS]

00:46:19   or minus 10 percentile get four stars if [TS]

00:46:20   everything went as well as could be [TS]

00:46:22   expected [TS]

00:46:22   everybody just did their job search [TS]

00:46:24   three starts coming after a jets bits [TS]

00:46:27   ob- succeeded at not setting the house [TS]

00:46:30   on fire you 3 stars three be happy with [TS]

00:46:33   three and then I found out that if [TS]

00:46:35   you're an uber driver and your rating [TS]

00:46:38   consistently drops below 4.7 oh you get [TS]

00:46:42   fired you go right into the shipping [TS]

00:46:45   container [TS]

00:46:46   yep and then they hit you with rubber [TS]

00:46:48   hoses and pour cold water on you [TS]

00:46:49   that's right that's right and and you [TS]

00:46:51   get a send your bill for it LOL 4.7 [TS]

00:46:55   points7 is a lot of stars you know what [TS]

00:46:57   i do now and also yes because i know [TS]

00:46:59   they they review me I just give [TS]

00:47:01   everybody five stars [TS]

00:47:03   yeah and if it tears my heart apart yeah [TS]

00:47:05   if you are so wrong but I I know their [TS]

00:47:07   rating me I know whatever it's a dumb [TS]

00:47:09   company it's just it's it's a mess [TS]

00:47:12   inside of a mess [TS]

00:47:13   so what do you do that well see i don't [TS]

00:47:15   use uber is for you used it a couple of [TS]

00:47:18   times I've spent more time in Hoover's [TS]

00:47:20   that were called by john hodgman then i [TS]

00:47:24   have spent in Cooper's called by anyone [TS]

00:47:27   else because a husband loves its or at [TS]

00:47:29   least he did I don't know what his [TS]

00:47:31   feelings about the politics are but [TS]

00:47:32   early on he was an early adopter and you [TS]

00:47:35   know he does that thing weighs like [TS]

00:47:37   we need a car and he you know bleep and [TS]

00:47:39   then all of a sudden a stretch limo [TS]

00:47:41   pulls up and you're like what the fuck [TS]

00:47:42   is this an easy and I don't know it was [TS]

00:47:44   the closest one like wow you get in [TS]

00:47:47   these things stretch limo come on [TS]

00:47:50   so you know he's living high on the hog [TS]

00:47:52   uh-huh i spent a lot of time in these [TS]

00:47:53   things but I have never rated anyone [TS]

00:47:55   knows I know there's no I don't maybe [TS]

00:47:58   there's a rating of me [TS]

00:48:00   oh I think I've never asked because I [TS]

00:48:02   kind of don't want to know [TS]

00:48:03   yeah but no but my so I do not tip [TS]

00:48:08   additionally because i feel like that is [TS]

00:48:10   against the principal got no and I don't [TS]

00:48:13   and I'm I'm course I'm very chatty [TS]

00:48:15   because i want to know all about [TS]

00:48:16   everybody i'm one of those people that [TS]

00:48:18   starts talking to the cab driver right [TS]

00:48:20   away and Blake indicate to me that they [TS]

00:48:21   don't want to talk that's fine but like [TS]

00:48:23   I want to hear but I want to hear their [TS]

00:48:26   life story because it's always [TS]

00:48:27   interesting huh and yeah I've told you [TS]

00:48:29   write the cab i had a cab driver in [TS]

00:48:31   washington DC one time to say to me like [TS]

00:48:33   you know here's the thing [TS]

00:48:35   oh yeah he wants to hear what your story [TS]

00:48:37   yeah he's like I tell my story 25 times [TS]

00:48:40   a day island our air train or something [TS]

00:48:42   yeah that's right he was from the [TS]

00:48:43   retreat and he's like I want to hear [TS]

00:48:45   your story that's what's interesting to [TS]

00:48:46   me because you know like that's how I [TS]

00:48:49   learned and know that my customers are [TS]

00:48:51   interesting i don't want to just tell my [TS]

00:48:52   dumb story over and over and I was like [TS]

00:48:54   oh haha that's yes [TS]

00:48:57   alright i'm not doing you a favor by [TS]

00:48:58   asking you to tell me your story who I [TS]

00:49:00   should get in the cab [TS]

00:49:02   sit down and say let me tell you about [TS]

00:49:04   my day and that would be interesting to [TS]

00:49:07   us both [TS]

00:49:07   so that's what I feel like there's [TS]

00:49:09   something here that's not the opposite [TS]

00:49:12   of an eel but it's a compliment to the [TS]

00:49:14   problem of the Eels do you use ebay i [TS]

00:49:17   used ebay once [TS]

00:49:20   well it was in the nineties I I screwed [TS]

00:49:23   up [TS]

00:49:23   I i made it all the way to 2013 without [TS]

00:49:29   ever having used ebay and in the early [TS]

00:49:32   two thousands my girlfriend at the time [TS]

00:49:34   would was pretty big on ebay she's kind [TS]

00:49:39   of a big deal and we would go to thrift [TS]

00:49:43   stores and she would buy all these [TS]

00:49:45   things that were inexplicable too [TS]

00:49:47   like air jordans you know she would find [TS]

00:49:52   all this stuff that was not for her and [TS]

00:49:57   I had I was never a thrift store person [TS]

00:49:59   that went looking for stuff not for me [TS]

00:50:01   right i would find really cool stuff but [TS]

00:50:03   if it didn't fit me if I didn't want it [TS]

00:50:04   i would just throw it back into the pond [TS]

00:50:07   but she would you know she was she would [TS]

00:50:09   see some old Nikes and be like oh oh and [TS]

00:50:13   i could sell this and I would go why you [TS]

00:50:15   buying those that she's like.you never [TS]

00:50:16   you mind [TS]

00:50:17   and then she would put them up on ebay [TS]

00:50:19   and ship and sometimes sell them for a [TS]

00:50:23   ton of money because you could still [TS]

00:50:25   find somebody out there is gonna want oh [TS]

00:50:26   yeah and you can still find really and I [TS]

00:50:28   think you still can I feel if you're [TS]

00:50:30   that type of person but it used to be [TS]

00:50:32   early days of ebay you can still find [TS]

00:50:37   incredible stuff it just lying around [TS]

00:50:40   and sell it to people for hundreds and [TS]

00:50:41   hundreds of dollars so she had this [TS]

00:50:43   whole sideline going independent her [TS]

00:50:46   nature was to be a little bit secretive [TS]

00:50:48   from me so she was all you know I'd look [TS]

00:50:52   over shortly be like what are you [TS]

00:50:53   selling those on ebay and she's like.you [TS]

00:50:55   never you mind like don't don't worry [TS]

00:50:57   about ever that that's my business [TS]

00:51:01   that's left for you but then in about [TS]

00:51:03   2003 or 2004 remember ever have one of [TS]

00:51:08   those hilarious conversations that [TS]

00:51:10   reflect reflect on now where she's like [TS]

00:51:11   ebay used to be great but it's shit now [TS]

00:51:14   I don't even want to be on there i don't [TS]

00:51:16   want to do it anymore sucks and not [TS]

00:51:20   having ever been on there at the time I [TS]

00:51:21   was like wow [TS]

00:51:22   too bad i missed the i miss the time [TS]

00:51:26   when ebay was great and now it's 2004 [TS]

00:51:29   and ebay sucks and so I never I never [TS]

00:51:32   learned anything about it until two [TS]

00:51:34   thousand fucking 13 and I decide I'm [TS]

00:51:38   gonna ferrari rare and I go on their [TS]

00:51:41   number are gonna call center entrance [TS]

00:51:44   surfers solar like this is ten percent [TS]

00:51:48   less than wrenches in the store Newser [TS]

00:51:51   sorry but it's also but it's also a game [TS]

00:51:55   it's a game right i mean no I mean in a [TS]

00:51:57   pejorative I mean in the sense that like [TS]

00:51:59   the gaming and [TS]

00:52:00   respective ebay ms must be part of what [TS]

00:52:02   makes it detective well and it's what [TS]

00:52:03   it's part of what makes it suck too but [TS]

00:52:06   but there's a whole so on craigslist i'm [TS]

00:52:10   sure you know about the craigslist [TS]

00:52:12   lectures that people have in their item [TS]

00:52:17   you know whether like for sale [TS]

00:52:20   one iphone no flakes note you know know [TS]

00:52:25   this i will sell this only to a person [TS]

00:52:28   with high moral integrity who comes [TS]

00:52:30   directly to my house and stands there [TS]

00:52:33   contrite with hat in hand and asks me [TS]

00:52:36   for permission and calls me sir and I [TS]

00:52:39   will not I do not support you do not [TS]

00:52:43   call this number with any solicitations [TS]

00:52:46   you know like all these guys who are [TS]

00:52:48   just who are taking out their anger and [TS]

00:52:52   frustration in there craigslist ad [TS]

00:52:54   trying to preempt what they imagine is a [TS]

00:52:58   world of scammers and lowlifes and [TS]

00:53:01   doorbell ringer the only effective way [TS]

00:53:04   to keep those people away as to offer a [TS]

00:53:06   stern lecture editor lecture and do not [TS]

00:53:10   call this number if you have not have [TS]

00:53:12   crab prior military service and proven [TS]

00:53:16   your love America and it's just like [TS]

00:53:18   fuck you guys like each shit i want to [TS]

00:53:22   call this number and hang up now i [TS]

00:53:24   wanted i wanted to to to ring and dash [TS]

00:53:29   or whatever like i want to put a burning [TS]

00:53:31   bag of dog shit on your doorstep and and [TS]

00:53:35   it's not even Halloween but on ebay [TS]

00:53:38   there's this subclass there are plenty [TS]

00:53:41   of people on ebay who have similar [TS]

00:53:42   lectures but there's the subclass of of [TS]

00:53:45   of add that extremely pedantically i [TS]

00:53:51   would say even ebay splaining this is [TS]

00:53:55   the term explains that anything less [TS]

00:53:59   than a five star rating [TS]

00:54:00   you might as well yeah be pissing on [TS]

00:54:05   their face and so if you cannot give [TS]

00:54:09   them a 5-star rating then say nothing [TS]

00:54:12   but they do not want your four-star [TS]

00:54:13   rating they do not want your third star [TS]

00:54:15   rating if you give them four stars four [TS]

00:54:19   of a possible five it is tantamount to a [TS]

00:54:25   Scarlet Letter it's tantamount to [TS]

00:54:27   putting them in the public stocks and [TS]

00:54:28   makes you makes you sort of a tease [TS]

00:54:30   disabuse term it makes you a little bit [TS]

00:54:34   of a rating prick tease [TS]

00:54:36   it's like you took the time to do it but [TS]

00:54:37   you didn't do what you're supposed to do [TS]

00:54:39   with it [TS]

00:54:40   you didn't give him five stars that [TS]

00:54:41   you're supposed to give like Jenna yeah [TS]

00:54:42   that's right so like yeah exactly and i [TS]

00:54:46   know there are I'm sure the exact same [TS]

00:54:48   guys that are writing those craigslist [TS]

00:54:49   ads are also out there giving three star [TS]

00:54:52   ratings to people uh and that is that is [TS]

00:54:55   perceived you know that is that's also [TS]

00:54:57   similar to like the way i use periods in [TS]

00:54:59   in texting and it makes me seem mean all [TS]

00:55:02   right instead of ! read about this on [TS]

00:55:05   the internet that I'm not supposed to [TS]

00:55:06   use punctuation anymore because it makes [TS]

00:55:07   me sound angry [TS]

00:55:08   same here you're doing you're doing the [TS]

00:55:10   right thing which is saying you know [TS]

00:55:11   what it was fine i'm gonna ride behind [TS]

00:55:13   the packaging was fine that everything [TS]

00:55:15   was fine [TS]

00:55:16   it might have been better could have [TS]

00:55:17   been worse it was fine I mean you know [TS]

00:55:19   like the like I get stuff in the mail [TS]

00:55:21   and I and the only way you could [TS]

00:55:24   describe it is fine as long as there's [TS]

00:55:26   really only three reviews on the [TS]

00:55:28   contemporary internet it's either five [TS]

00:55:30   stars one star or no right so either you [TS]

00:55:33   give it the full five stars to get one [TS]

00:55:34   star cause you're mad or there's nothing [TS]

00:55:37   said but right and that and that offends [TS]

00:55:41   me because i have in my in my soul a [TS]

00:55:44   full panoply of star ratings more than 1 [TS]

00:55:47   and 1 like 1 vector more than one aspect [TS]

00:55:50   five stars of what [TS]

00:55:51   no thank you like with this kid that [TS]

00:55:53   kids getting the rate i'm glad to say [TS]

00:55:55   that i had a ride on the over the other [TS]

00:55:56   day and the kids playing super loud rap [TS]

00:55:58   music he had all the windows rolled down [TS]

00:55:59   he took a crazy route [TS]

00:56:01   what games 5 stars he deserved 2-0 stars [TS]

00:56:05   the the reason I think this is the this [TS]

00:56:09   is the facebook thumbs-down problem [TS]

00:56:11   right facebook finally needed a thumbs [TS]

00:56:14   down because there's just too much [TS]

00:56:17   desire to two thumbs down stuff and so I [TS]

00:56:23   i still haven't seen it I haven't seen [TS]

00:56:25   the thumbs down [TS]

00:56:25   what they've rolled it out yet or if [TS]

00:56:26   it's to have any I haven't even looked [TS]

00:56:28   at facebook i deactivated my kind of [TS]

00:56:29   looked at in years [TS]

00:56:30   yeah i'm going to just go ahead and [TS]

00:56:32   arbitrarily predict that this will be [TS]

00:56:33   the thing to remember is the end of [TS]

00:56:34   facebook I i think i think you may be [TS]

00:56:36   right it because it creates a [TS]

00:56:39   capitulation to something that's I think [TS]

00:56:41   there's a whole lot of grenades rolling [TS]

00:56:43   around on the floor facebook that we're [TS]

00:56:44   not gonna hear about for a while I think [TS]

00:56:46   that a lot of the real name stuff is is [TS]

00:56:48   super fucked up and bugs me a lot but [TS]

00:56:50   anyway I don't go to the site but I'm [TS]

00:56:52   just telling you soon as I heard about [TS]

00:56:53   the thumbs-down I was like you're gonna [TS]

00:56:55   make it a little bit too real [TS]

00:56:56   yep it's gonna get in times he out there [TS]

00:56:59   but here's my question to you know this [TS]

00:57:01   is the big this has always been the big [TS]

00:57:02   question on facebook for me [TS]

00:57:04   somebody's post somebody you know but [TS]

00:57:07   not well and the post is my mom died [TS]

00:57:11   today [TS]

00:57:12   odia star it do you give that a thumbs [TS]

00:57:14   up i will see the light there [TS]

00:57:17   yeah but the Twitter version that was [TS]

00:57:18   somebody's dog died like to start to [TS]

00:57:20   start that when did you send response [TS]

00:57:22   somebody I've never actually met [TS]

00:57:24   I'm sorry for anybody who's dog died oh [TS]

00:57:26   my god that's the worst like I don't [TS]

00:57:28   know them personally I didn't even know [TS]

00:57:29   they had a dog but having your dog dies [TS]

00:57:31   sucks so do i send a response to get [TS]

00:57:33   into a conversation about a dead dog if [TS]

00:57:35   I started that seems a little weird but [TS]

00:57:37   so here is so here's the additional [TS]

00:57:39   complication you're on facebook [TS]

00:57:41   my mom died today and then you look and [TS]

00:57:43   it has 385 faves [TS]

00:57:48   so now you know if you do if you do [TS]

00:57:53   friend it or if you do smiley face it [TS]

00:57:56   you're in good company right 385 other [TS]

00:58:02   people have felt like that was the only [TS]

00:58:04   appropriate response [TS]

00:58:07   it's it's a little bit like a like a [TS]

00:58:09   high five or a hug you can be [TS]

00:58:11   interpreted in a lot of different that's [TS]

00:58:12   right it's it and and and said sense i'm [TS]

00:58:15   not even sure if you can still poke [TS]

00:58:17   somebody on facebook at band i'm not i [TS]

00:58:19   don't know I shouldn't be asking you you [TS]

00:58:21   know a time you can get something called [TS]

00:58:22   superpoke [TS]

00:58:24   haha there was smoke and somebody poked [TS]

00:58:27   me and I poke them back i understand why [TS]

00:58:28   we're poking each other- other thing you [TS]

00:58:30   can get from their little of this [TS]

00:58:32   downloading astoria from looking like [TS]

00:58:34   people fucking popcorn and you get down [TS]

00:58:36   superpoke superpoke well this is the [TS]

00:58:38   thing if I had a fucking dollar for [TS]

00:58:40   every superpoke up given oh no i'm [TS]

00:58:42   saying and what you have but i'd have I [TS]

00:58:45   would you know I would be a I would be a [TS]

00:58:48   professional gigolo instead of a a sort [TS]

00:58:51   of a hobbyist obvious but my question is [TS]

00:58:56   like you can't poke somebody when [TS]

00:58:58   they're mom died or i guess you can [TS]

00:59:00   presume that that's one that's one [TS]

00:59:02   possible response seems a little glib [TS]

00:59:04   but now if Facebook has thumbs down [TS]

00:59:08   options [TS]

00:59:09   oh geez mom dies do you thumbs down it [TS]

00:59:12   like that's so like somebody says hey my [TS]

00:59:16   mom died and somebody goes boo [TS]

00:59:18   yeah right like okay so are you are you [TS]

00:59:20   booing the news and saying that sucks [TS]

00:59:23   are you saying your mom was kind of a [TS]

00:59:25   dick to begin with or on a more like I [TS]

00:59:28   don't know Roland barks level are you [TS]

00:59:30   like criticizing the fact that they're [TS]

00:59:32   talking about fucking face exactly are [TS]

00:59:34   you thumbs down in the whole idea of two [TS]

00:59:37   of like this conversation like this [TS]

00:59:39   fucking sucks like don't don't clog my [TS]

00:59:43   feed with your fucking sorrow so on [TS]

00:59:47   YouTube right where there was always a [TS]

00:59:48   thumbs up and thumbs down it became it [TS]

00:59:50   was established pretty early on you [TS]

00:59:53   could put a video of Thomas Jefferson [TS]

00:59:55   himself reading the preamble to the [TS]

00:59:57   Constitution and [TS]

00:59:57   Constitution and [TS]

01:00:00   there would be 17 people that comes down [TS]

01:00:02   to it Yeah right just being an American [TS]

01:00:04   people than a huge more people remarking [TS]

01:00:06   on the like who would thumbs-down this [TS]

01:00:08   so people have no hard have no heart [TS]

01:00:12   right but that's at least that's baked [TS]

01:00:14   into the to the dat dumb interface and [TS]

01:00:17   the and the fact is you know we have [TS]

01:00:19   like the ability to communicate now in [TS]

01:00:23   real-time three-dimensional augmented [TS]

01:00:27   reality we do [TS]

01:00:29   oh I do because i'm i'm i'm hooked in [TS]

01:00:32   with the with the special class all we [TS]

01:00:35   almost do right you could almost have I [TS]

01:00:37   could appear on your desk and say Merlin [TS]

01:00:41   one kenobi help me you're my only hope [TS]

01:00:44   and then i would go to h and you'd be [TS]

01:00:47   like wow were there we are Jenner it's [TS]

01:00:52   it's you know a long time ago now in a [TS]

01:00:55   galaxy far away except it's now it's [TS]

01:00:57   here [TS]

01:00:58   and yet we are still communicating with [TS]

01:01:01   like semaphores basically then we only [TS]

01:01:05   have two semaphores a giant up some [TS]

01:01:07   added and now a giant down we need some [TS]

01:01:10   more fingers I feel like an AE [TS]

01:01:12   experience this with your period right [TS]

01:01:14   there has never been like there that we [TS]

01:01:19   have all this emotional top end to our [TS]

01:01:21   punctuation for her ! hyphens [TS]

01:01:27   uh-huh but there's this artificial floor [TS]

01:01:31   of the period there's nothing there's no [TS]

01:01:34   punctuation that goes below a period so [TS]

01:01:37   the period has become the default [TS]

01:01:39   lowest-rated lowest rating it's such a [TS]

01:01:43   shame because i'm writing something you [TS]

01:01:46   know informally like right now just [TS]

01:01:47   typing down like little notes entitled [TS]

01:01:49   things and where the sky called I'd I [TS]

01:01:52   don't feel the need to put a period at [TS]

01:01:53   the end of every line but to me when I [TS]

01:01:55   when I see something that doesn't end [TS]

01:01:57   with a period I kind of read it read it [TS]

01:01:59   as a a anything like an inchoate thought [TS]

01:02:01   or as a title especially if it's [TS]

01:02:04   entitled case but if I see something [TS]

01:02:06   that's meant to be a sentence and it [TS]

01:02:07   doesn't have a period [TS]

01:02:08   it bothers me like it's like leaving the [TS]

01:02:10   the cap off the toothpaste it's like [TS]

01:02:13   that should [TS]

01:02:13   that should have a period because it's a [TS]

01:02:15   sentence and like I don't know [TS]

01:02:17   and now for example i am also one of [TS]

01:02:19   those people i mean i'm not have a super [TS]

01:02:20   strong opinion but I do think I still [TS]

01:02:22   think it's funny when people use two [TS]

01:02:24   spaces after a period when they're [TS]

01:02:26   typing you think that's funny i think [TS]

01:02:28   it's a little funny and I have a strong [TS]

01:02:29   i don't get mad about it did you [TS]

01:02:31   how are you educated well when you typed [TS]

01:02:34   on a typewriter you had to because of [TS]

01:02:35   the way that typing work it was the only [TS]

01:02:36   way to really visually set it off from [TS]

01:02:39   the sentence before but at what point [TS]

01:02:41   did you make the at what point did you [TS]

01:02:44   make the transition to working on [TS]

01:02:46   computers from typewriters nuclear [TS]

01:02:49   1987-88 but i don't i think i probably [TS]

01:02:52   still I'll bet you look at stuff I wrote [TS]

01:02:55   in the eighties and even most of the [TS]

01:02:56   nineties i bet it didn't stop doing two [TS]

01:02:59   spaces didn't read a book a book on you [TS]

01:03:01   know i think it's called the the [TS]

01:03:04   Macintosh is not a typewriter was the [TS]

01:03:05   name of the book or it could be the [TS]

01:03:07   don't steal sheep book but you know one [TS]

01:03:09   of those books on typography for [TS]

01:03:10   laypeople and like how you know digital [TS]

01:03:12   stuff is different from you know [TS]

01:03:14   typewriter stuff so i probably didn't [TS]

01:03:16   officially start doing it until the [TS]

01:03:18   2,000 some point right [TS]

01:03:19   but you see it you can see it in [TS]

01:03:21   somebody's that's one way you could tell [TS]

01:03:23   us somebody wrote themselves is like if [TS]

01:03:25   Robert Evans is out there you know at [TS]

01:03:27   first of all his senses already make [TS]

01:03:28   almost no sense which is why it's great [TS]

01:03:29   to follow him [TS]

01:03:30   you follow robert evans on twitter i did [TS]

01:03:32   not know that Robert Robert Evans was [TS]

01:03:34   still alive followed by fall to follow [TS]

01:03:36   robert evans you're actually doing all [TS]

01:03:38   robert evans bet your ass I i I'm I'm [TS]

01:03:41   embarrassed to say I did not know he was [TS]

01:03:43   well it's funny because you know he's [TS]

01:03:44   like 80-something yeah and the kids just [TS]

01:03:46   occasionally just show up and he's like [TS]

01:03:48   a markov chain or or like some kind of [TS]

01:03:50   is like to become a bot he just spews [TS]

01:03:53   out this this combination of words and [TS]

01:03:56   memories and spaces and and names and [TS]

01:03:59   it'll just be some random memory will [TS]

01:04:00   quote himself some friday night or [TS]

01:04:02   something he just has 10 toots and its [TS]

01:04:03   really funny [TS]

01:04:04   that's great you know the the president [TS]

01:04:06   of Kazakhstan is kind of like that how [TS]

01:04:08   nice he only tweets very periodically [TS]

01:04:11   but when he does it's always like a [TS]

01:04:12   total tweet storm except generally the [TS]

01:04:15   tweet storm is like cosmic standstill is [TS]

01:04:18   leader of above of corn harvest [TS]

01:04:22   and people to feel like 10 or 15 tweets [TS]

01:04:26   touting the counting the fact that [TS]

01:04:29   Kazakhstan has the greatest human rights [TS]

01:04:31   record and is the only let you know one [TS]

01:04:36   thing country in the world that is still [TS]

01:04:38   like a processing saffron on a body like [TS]

01:04:44   a industrial scale and I read the signs [TS]

01:04:47   that was kazakhstan at this place is [TS]

01:04:49   amazing this place sounds incredible but [TS]

01:04:51   he's obviously never no one has ever [TS]

01:04:53   given [TS]

01:04:55   I mean no one's ever read him is that [TS]

01:04:56   replies Leanne like he has he probably [TS]

01:04:58   had yeah exactly and he certainly hasn't [TS]

01:05:00   had any kind of like Al half-day course [TS]

01:05:02   on time that social media know and he's [TS]

01:05:04   also always writing in English not in I [TS]

01:05:08   bet his English is better than my [TS]

01:05:09   whatever they speak in Kazakhstan i [TS]

01:05:11   think i think it is yeah but you took [TS]

01:05:13   medicine guys he's still around he was [TS]

01:05:14   quite a character [TS]

01:05:15   he was what r qu what a character I [TS]

01:05:18   think you think you still need to change [TS]

01:05:22   the names of the months his family [TS]

01:05:23   members [TS]

01:05:24   I mean who hasn't done that at one point [TS]

01:05:26   he's mentally but welcome to the months [TS]

01:05:31   of mother Madeline Brewer Terry Madeline [TS]

01:05:36   Brewer Mary Ellen August I i feel like [TS]

01:05:41   the the two period or the two space one [TS]

01:05:43   space thing and I know you don't want to [TS]

01:05:45   get into this i don't know i don't mind [TS]

01:05:47   i just want to say like I'm not here to [TS]

01:05:48   like everybody does that's an Indian [TS]

01:05:50   everybody thinks it's bad it's bad man i [TS]

01:05:52   just know I'll i don't have you know [TS]

01:05:53   three stars three stars three stars is [TS]

01:05:55   right but i but I feel like this it is a [TS]

01:05:57   thing that someone wrote in a book right [TS]

01:06:01   somebody somebody somebody was sitting [TS]

01:06:03   around in the eighties and they were [TS]

01:06:05   like hey computers on typewriters and [TS]

01:06:09   then they had some they had some sort of [TS]

01:06:12   like knowledge of kerning or something [TS]

01:06:16   that they they informed their thesis [TS]

01:06:19   with like because computers of kerning [TS]

01:06:22   have type fonts and I um and also [TS]

01:06:26   something and a theory and and and now i [TS]

01:06:30   have created a problem that didn't [TS]

01:06:32   previously exist so it's somewhat [TS]

01:06:34   cumbersome capricious [TS]

01:06:36   yeah and there are arbitrary they wrote [TS]

01:06:38   a book about it and all the people that [TS]

01:06:39   read the book initially were all of of a [TS]

01:06:42   class which is to say people who are [TS]

01:06:45   reading computer books about turning [TS]

01:06:47   about typing and they were like yeah and [TS]

01:06:51   then those were the first that's the [TS]

01:06:52   first gen of people who decided that [TS]

01:06:55   that was where they were going to plant [TS]

01:06:56   their flag and then it became a thing [TS]

01:06:58   where it's like oh you haven't read the [TS]

01:07:00   book you didn't read you nobody's even [TS]

01:07:01   told you about this it's like everybody [TS]

01:07:03   in the computer world loves that kind of [TS]

01:07:05   shit where it's like it's not a question [TS]

01:07:08   of oh hey you should read this it's a [TS]

01:07:10   question of what you didn't read this [TS]

01:07:13   and so then it turns into that so all [TS]

01:07:16   the second-generation adopters of it are [TS]

01:07:19   already adopting this new theory based [TS]

01:07:22   on a premise that you're an idiot if you [TS]

01:07:24   haven't done it and then somewhere along [TS]

01:07:27   the line when the nerds took over the [TS]

01:07:30   world somewhere in the early two [TS]

01:07:32   thousands it's this it's this thing that [TS]

01:07:35   you can get upset about [TS]

01:07:38   it's like why are you still doing that [TS]

01:07:39   little yeah and it all just started with [TS]

01:07:43   some it was just somebody's like herp [TS]

01:07:46   derp [TS]

01:07:47   yeah but I mean like an annoying like [TS]

01:07:48   giving Jeff it's a picture BPF gift and [TS]

01:07:52   Jeff people get pretty passionate about [TS]

01:07:53   that oh yeah good picture [TS]

01:07:55   I've um it's clearly gift i realized i [TS]

01:07:58   was on the wrong side of history at [TS]

01:07:59   point O and I started seeing it [TS]

01:08:01   differently in the last year or so and [TS]

01:08:03   now my daughter's know I've always said [TS]

01:08:05   Jeff but I've been told that's incorrect [TS]

01:08:06   I want by more people know the history [TS]

01:08:08   has the tide of history is changed and [TS]

01:08:10   we just say Jeff and now it's a gift and [TS]

01:08:12   so now my daughter my daughter refused [TS]

01:08:14   she corrects me says notes it's animated [TS]

01:08:15   gif so now I've ruined my child [TS]

01:08:18   oh no she says jeff she's going to be an [TS]

01:08:20   outcast she's going to get there putting [TS]

01:08:21   periods on our honor text messages and [TS]

01:08:23   yeah my understanding was always and [TS]

01:08:25   this is what's so confusing about it was [TS]

01:08:27   that this the the smart people be [TS]

01:08:29   insider said Jeff and the dummies and [TS]

01:08:32   the and the like tourists and the moms [TS]

01:08:35   said gif and I was firmly in the gift [TS]

01:08:38   camp and I also the the dress was was [TS]

01:08:41   gold and whatever like i was always on [TS]

01:08:44   the wrong side of these all right but I [TS]

01:08:46   i still love the dress is called I [TS]

01:08:48   struggled white [TS]

01:08:49   but were old but then i looked on ipad [TS]

01:08:51   is a black-and-blue i felt like i was [TS]

01:08:52   crazy i never saw black and blue except [TS]

01:08:54   when somebody did like here here's what [TS]

01:08:56   it looks like black and blue is like I [TS]

01:08:57   see that huh [TS]

01:08:59   but but i do two spaces after a period [TS]

01:09:01   because I learned to type on a [TS]

01:09:03   typewriter and I can what's going on on [TS]

01:09:06   Twitter you do that well the thing is [TS]

01:09:08   like I would notice that really reads as [TS]

01:09:11   man over 50 the thing here's the thing [TS]

01:09:13   though right the the app if you touch [TS]

01:09:18   the if you touch the spacebar twice it [TS]

01:09:22   puts a period in history [TS]

01:09:24   it's an automatic function so let you [TS]

01:09:27   know that so precisely turned as a good [TS]

01:09:34   thing in the 25 is it like a carrot [TS]

01:09:36   sweater at the twitter app is completely [TS]

01:09:37   capricious about when you can use return [TS]

01:09:39   it drives me crazy [TS]

01:09:40   well I like white space I like white [TS]

01:09:42   space too and i use so but the thing is [TS]

01:09:45   I use like five Twitter clients on my [TS]

01:09:47   five different devices and none of and [TS]

01:09:50   there's no there's no consistency [TS]

01:09:53   between yeah yeah but the fact that the [TS]

01:09:55   fact that predictive text understands [TS]

01:09:58   that two spaces equals a period like I [TS]

01:10:01   don't care how much white space they put [TS]

01:10:03   in there it's a reflex it's like click [TS]

01:10:05   click and then you begin a new sentence [TS]

01:10:07   and and and the predictive text [TS]

01:10:11   understands that and that's how it works [TS]

01:10:13   and so I continue to use two spaces [TS]

01:10:15   happily because it puts a period in [TS]

01:10:17   their magically but if I'm if I'm typing [TS]

01:10:20   on typewriter [TS]

01:10:22   yes i do two clicks a typed on a [TS]

01:10:25   typewriter much these days [TS]

01:10:26   I mean if I'm if I'm using a word [TS]

01:10:28   processor well if you're on is ok open [TS]

01:10:30   process if you're on your Mac if I'm on [TS]

01:10:32   my mac but I like I learned to type what [TS]

01:10:36   1980-88 8281 on a IBM Selectric and I [TS]

01:10:43   continue to use manual typewriters all [TS]

01:10:46   the way through the nineties i only have [TS]

01:10:51   a min and I had a computer but it wasn't [TS]

01:10:53   like connected anything if I wanted to [TS]

01:10:56   see if I wanted to write something in [TS]

01:10:58   hand it to somebody else i would type it [TS]

01:11:00   i did that all the way through the night [TS]

01:11:02   he's so I was still typing [TS]

01:11:06   even after and I still type frankly I [TS]

01:11:10   have a typewriter at my house that i [TS]

01:11:12   will type things on but anyway it just [TS]

01:11:15   it feels like i don't want i do want to [TS]

01:11:17   wait into that and say that I am honest [TS]

01:11:19   I'd i am on the side of two spaces after [TS]

01:11:21   a period i think you're typing it makes [TS]

01:11:23   absolute sense if you're on a typewriter [TS]

01:11:25   but then you know I idea i'm not going [TS]

01:11:28   to have to separate typing styles one [TS]

01:11:29   for my laptop and one from typewriter [TS]

01:11:31   like it'sit's one skill it's a single [TS]

01:11:34   skill it's not like I'm like I'm on it [TS]

01:11:36   I'm on skis and if i'm on red skis I [TS]

01:11:38   suddenly like I'm doing back scratchers [TS]

01:11:41   and on greens lyrics underwear terrible [TS]

01:11:43   as that of course i was going to say I [TS]

01:11:45   wash my hands better after I watched [TS]

01:11:46   chicken and carrots but I realize that [TS]

01:11:47   that doesn't make any sense [TS]

01:11:48   listen I wash my hands better after I [TS]

01:11:50   watched him to do is breaking up [TS]

01:11:53   oh no really know if I haha that's going [TS]

01:12:00   to be that's gonna be my new ace in the [TS]

01:12:02   hole there [TS]

01:12:06   ok ok but it is at area I'm sorry John [TS]

01:12:10   you know he's gonna love this episode [TS]

01:12:14   mmm Johnson [TS]

01:12:18   we're here [TS]

01:12:23   that's it stop it I can't take anymore [TS]