Roderick on the Line

Ep. 161: "It's Ramifications!"


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:05   hello hi John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:10   good are you going I'm going I'm going [TS]

00:00:13   man [TS]

00:00:14   big weekend early man [TS]

00:00:18   Oh John rado red call patriotic version [TS]

00:00:23   um yeah it was a big weekend a big nice [TS]

00:00:27   big long hot weekend I was it hot up [TS]

00:00:32   there I know it's very hot up here yet [TS]

00:00:35   just set some kind of record for most [TS]

00:00:37   days above 80 yeah where we're headed [TS]

00:00:40   we're headed to a record of most days [TS]

00:00:42   above 90 now that that's where we were [TS]

00:00:44   that's what that's our target [TS]

00:00:46   yeah it hasn't rained in in a long long [TS]

00:00:49   time and it's a everybody you know the [TS]

00:00:53   sociopaths love it [TS]

00:00:55   course because because they're there had [TS]

00:00:58   their lizard people and they they lay [TS]

00:01:00   out on their hot rocks you get it they [TS]

00:01:04   get to live this little fantasy of [TS]

00:01:05   pretending they live somewhere else [TS]

00:01:07   mmm i live somewhere different with son [TS]

00:01:11   yeah yeah they just they absorb the [TS]

00:01:13   life-giving rays of the Sun and the rest [TS]

00:01:17   of us are just a cowering something I [TS]

00:01:20   have has done on me slowly i think i may [TS]

00:01:23   pick up slightly from you is that when [TS]

00:01:26   you think about the the problems that [TS]

00:01:27   different places have you know whether [TS]

00:01:30   that's you know when it rains in Atlanta [TS]

00:01:33   rains in san francisco when it snows in [TS]

00:01:36   some sort doesn't snow and everybody [TS]

00:01:38   laughs the point laughs but you know the [TS]

00:01:40   problem is that you know you have your [TS]

00:01:42   community set up a certain way your city [TS]

00:01:45   if you like to accommodate what happens [TS]

00:01:48   over eighty percent of the time [TS]

00:01:50   mhm right and i don't know i think i [TS]

00:01:52   have more subtle understanding of these [TS]

00:01:53   things because I get now I get that that [TS]

00:01:56   you know yet it's still kinda silly that [TS]

00:01:57   literally no one in Florida can drive [TS]

00:01:59   but but you know if you if you're not [TS]

00:02:02   used to a certain kind of traffic and [TS]

00:02:03   event happens it's a very infrastructure [TS]

00:02:05   issue in some ways you can't suddenly [TS]

00:02:07   ramp up to everybody having air [TS]

00:02:09   conditioning because it's HOT for four [TS]

00:02:10   days [TS]

00:02:10   that's right and no one here has air [TS]

00:02:12   conditioning it's always been a point of [TS]

00:02:14   personal pride for satellites no [TS]

00:02:17   air-conditioning number [TS]

00:02:19   Ella's those are two big co system-wide [TS]

00:02:23   decision [TS]

00:02:24   wow that everyone makes no umbrellas no [TS]

00:02:27   air conditioning and and now the no [TS]

00:02:33   air-conditioning thing is kind of [TS]

00:02:34   starting to be a little bit of a problem [TS]

00:02:36   for people you can't go you can't go two [TS]

00:02:38   weeks with no break in the sun in July [TS]

00:02:42   and and be just sit in front of your box [TS]

00:02:45   fan and be like yeah I'm fine I'm fine I [TS]

00:02:48   don't need an umbrella either [TS]

00:02:50   well yeah I mean there's there's health [TS]

00:02:52   issues I mean it seems like if I feel [TS]

00:02:53   like this happens in Chicago a lot when [TS]

00:02:55   there's heat ways you know ramifications [TS]

00:02:57   for people like an old people who live [TS]

00:02:59   alone and don't have air-conditioning or [TS]

00:03:01   something like that there's there's real [TS]

00:03:02   mistakes to it you know you know what [TS]

00:03:04   you just hit on Merlin through its [TS]

00:03:06   ramifications boom that's what we're [TS]

00:03:08   talking about what he really said and [TS]

00:03:09   it's all about ramifications you know [TS]

00:03:11   what its ramifications and this is a [TS]

00:03:13   thing that people don't people don't get [TS]

00:03:14   we don't talk about ramifications enough [TS]

00:03:16   write that down but uh but this is about [TS]

00:03:19   ramifications and so many things are you [TS]

00:03:22   know what i mean so many things are [TS]

00:03:24   about ramifications really good point [TS]

00:03:26   John yeah i think i think as principal [TS]

00:03:28   people with a lot of fancy ideas we have [TS]

00:03:31   a lot of nouns in our head about how the [TS]

00:03:32   world works but when it comes down to it [TS]

00:03:34   the real problem its ramifications [TS]

00:03:35   that's right yeah yeah at the annual gay [TS]

00:03:38   though the more the more you say it the [TS]

00:03:41   more it really resonates with me [TS]

00:03:42   ramifications its ramifications and you [TS]

00:03:45   know it started really thinking with me [TS]

00:03:47   to say just say it a few times and often [TS]

00:03:50   it's almost like praying and [TS]

00:03:51   capabilities start to you start to see [TS]

00:03:54   the ramifications of it [TS]

00:03:55   yeah you know it's true it's true [TS]

00:03:57   because I you know and the thing is i [TS]

00:03:59   don't know i think a lot about these [TS]

00:04:00   things you know that's what we're you [TS]

00:04:05   know actually I mentioned this recently [TS]

00:04:06   somewhere else i think about like I have [TS]

00:04:08   talked about this with you about like [TS]

00:04:09   what by evil parenting style or any of [TS]

00:04:11   the ways you conduct your life I used to [TS]

00:04:13   think that I had a set of principles or [TS]

00:04:15   values or any of these other lists of [TS]

00:04:17   nouns that white men like to talk about [TS]

00:04:20   I used to think that I had these things [TS]

00:04:21   and then i willfully mindful e in a very [TS]

00:04:25   muscular masculine way apply those to [TS]

00:04:28   life [TS]

00:04:29   I started to realize that that list is [TS]

00:04:32   easy to overlook when things are going [TS]

00:04:34   the way that I want it when things don't [TS]

00:04:36   go the way that I want right [TS]

00:04:38   that's when I start wanting to start [TS]

00:04:40   grabbing my big bag of nouns and [TS]

00:04:41   slapping on two things going that's why [TS]

00:04:43   this is wrong when really have to [TS]

00:04:44   realize its ramifications there's [TS]

00:04:46   ramifications that you know what i mean [TS]

00:04:48   though i do people you know it's it's [TS]

00:04:50   always the kind of like and I guess form [TS]

00:04:54   of personal NIMBY where you're always [TS]

00:04:56   putting other people who are doing it [TS]

00:04:57   wrong on one does that and it's like you [TS]

00:05:00   used to assume you're doing it right [TS]

00:05:01   because you got this bag announced yeah [TS]

00:05:04   I have more than ever before and no i am [TS]

00:05:08   convinced that i am out that do not have [TS]

00:05:12   special knowledge and i am not doing it [TS]

00:05:15   right [TS]

00:05:16   haha you really feel that when I mean if [TS]

00:05:21   you have time to sit and think and stew [TS]

00:05:25   and steam and various other ways of [TS]

00:05:26   mentally cooking yourself you you can [TS]

00:05:29   really dig yourself in on how correct [TS]

00:05:31   your idea about something is and then [TS]

00:05:33   you might suddenly one might suddenly be [TS]

00:05:35   exposed to several dozen people who not [TS]

00:05:39   only disagree with how you steam vents [TS]

00:05:41   dude but like you can they can actively [TS]

00:05:44   demonstrable to show you how full of [TS]

00:05:46   shit you are in a way that is incredibly [TS]

00:05:48   humbling [TS]

00:05:48   well there are two things in my [TS]

00:05:52   immediate life here where I feel like I [TS]

00:05:54   do have some special knowledge right now [TS]

00:05:57   okay [TS]

00:05:57   one of them and I get this may be a [TS]

00:06:02   foreign world to you don't write it down [TS]

00:06:04   but uh when I was first introduced to [TS]

00:06:07   facebook the first thing that I felt [TS]

00:06:10   about it was that it was a terrible name [TS]

00:06:12   facebook I don't you know a lot of [TS]

00:06:14   people don't like the word moist the I [TS]

00:06:17   don't like the word face succulent [TS]

00:06:19   there's nothing about the word face that [TS]

00:06:21   I like and face [TS]

00:06:23   remember remember in on golden pond when [TS]

00:06:27   they describe kissing and sucking face [TS]

00:06:29   and remember that okay yeah okay you add [TS]

00:06:34   you had sucked face and it really brings [TS]

00:06:36   out the nastiness of face as a teenager [TS]

00:06:38   was you know so people sucking face well [TS]

00:06:41   see it wasn't do it was the is the you [TS]

00:06:43   know [TS]

00:06:43   the one of the one of the plot points of [TS]

00:06:46   on golden pond was what Jane Fonda's son [TS]

00:06:50   her obnoxious little blonde son or was [TS]

00:06:53   he [TS]

00:06:53   yeah there was a young person in that [TS]

00:06:55   film I haven't seen in a long time but I [TS]

00:06:58   do remember i do remember the term [TS]

00:07:01   sucking face ruined not only the movie [TS]

00:07:03   for me but but i think that entire year [TS]

00:07:05   of my life who and then so on facebook [TS]

00:07:08   first came out I was like that's just [TS]

00:07:10   like sucking face it face facebook i [TS]

00:07:13   don't want you know like a rock face i [TS]

00:07:16   like the face of the rock face i can get [TS]

00:07:19   that's more dignified but a human face [TS]

00:07:22   yeah or even a little animal face tho 10 [TS]

00:07:27   days I went into this having no problems [TS]

00:07:29   faced yeah its ramifications now [TS]

00:07:31   thinking about face [TS]

00:07:32   well so yeah that's the thing like [TS]

00:07:34   you're thinking about face you you took [TS]

00:07:37   out eat [TS]

00:07:39   you're not even using like it's just [TS]

00:07:41   face now right i mean you're just saying [TS]

00:07:43   it's like it's like the way they talk [TS]

00:07:46   about police in the wire [TS]

00:07:48   you don't even say the police anymore [TS]

00:07:50   you just say it doesn't have an article [TS]

00:07:52   you just say face just a police right [TS]

00:07:55   and so Facebook anyway when it first [TS]

00:07:58   came on i was at you know i had spent so [TS]

00:08:01   much time worrying about who I was [TS]

00:08:03   trending on myspace uh-huh that when [TS]

00:08:07   Facebook came I was just like screw it [TS]

00:08:08   i'm just going to friend everybody [TS]

00:08:10   everybody that wants to be my friend can [TS]

00:08:13   be my friend because i don't care i'm [TS]

00:08:16   not here to curate anything i'm not [TS]

00:08:19   trying to create a special place for my [TS]

00:08:20   people my people aren't on here at all [TS]

00:08:22   so the people that are on my facebook [TS]

00:08:25   page are just whoever and so long time [TS]

00:08:28   ago or some amount of time ago i arrived [TS]

00:08:31   at the 5,000 friend mark which is the [TS]

00:08:35   most you can have [TS]

00:08:37   oh there's limit you can only have 5,000 [TS]

00:08:39   friends because somewhere in within [TS]

00:08:41   Facebook they imagined themselves that [TS]

00:08:47   they imagine their product has a correct [TS]

00:08:49   use absolutely that's super interesting [TS]

00:08:52   they do that's why they're so tied to [TS]

00:08:54   the whole real name thing [TS]

00:08:55   yeah because they're saying if this is [TS]

00:08:57   real John rock there's no way an actual [TS]

00:08:59   person has actual 5,000 friends side and [TS]

00:09:01   setting aside the fact that you can go [TS]

00:09:02   and like coca-cola on facebook right [TS]

00:09:05   that's exactly right so they have an [TS]

00:09:07   idea about the correct way to use their [TS]

00:09:08   product and 5,000 friends they determine [TS]

00:09:11   is the most that are normal human being [TS]

00:09:13   could have it's obviously way more than [TS]

00:09:16   a normal human being to adapt but still [TS]

00:09:19   not as many as I mean if you want to [TS]

00:09:21   have if you want to be my friend past [TS]

00:09:22   5,000 then you're my fan right but over [TS]

00:09:26   the years I have accepted a lot of [TS]

00:09:28   friend requests from like as I say from [TS]

00:09:32   whoever so record labels have friended [TS]

00:09:36   me and a guy that owns a Pontiac [TS]

00:09:38   dealership and you know there's a lot of [TS]

00:09:40   stuff on there that I don't care about [TS]

00:09:41   now my pc pontiac THX pontiac dealership [TS]

00:09:45   but so I was like all this is you know [TS]

00:09:50   this is a bummer because people keep [TS]

00:09:52   friending me every every day and i cant [TS]

00:09:54   i cannot conclude the transaction with [TS]

00:09:58   your you're all out of the Bitcoin of [TS]

00:09:59   human kindness that's right i cannot [TS]

00:10:01   hand them my like my ace of spades and [TS]

00:10:05   say you know 1st airborne was here right [TS]

00:10:09   I cannot touch them with my my virtual [TS]

00:10:12   fingertip you can't be can't palm your [TS]

00:10:14   challenge coin i cannot show them my [TS]

00:10:17   face and take their face into my [TS]

00:10:20   collection of faces into my book of [TS]

00:10:23   faces if you will and so and yet here's [TS]

00:10:28   what i've discovered you ready yeah [TS]

00:10:30   everyday some one to four people uh [TS]

00:10:36   disappear from my facebook friendless [TS]

00:10:39   everyday I'm allotted between 22 and [TS]

00:10:43   five new opportunities to friend people [TS]

00:10:47   or to accept friend requests [TS]

00:10:49   and I don't know where the three to five [TS]

00:10:51   people 25 people a day go [TS]

00:10:54   they just decide I've had enough for [TS]

00:10:57   their monitor their they are a they're [TS]

00:11:00   in their own Facebook's really managing [TS]

00:11:04   their account and they decide you know [TS]

00:11:06   John Roderick he's just not i don't know [TS]

00:11:09   he's just not working for me anymore [TS]

00:11:10   whatever it is so every day I get the [TS]

00:11:13   gratifying feeling of just the and I [TS]

00:11:19   always go to the always go to the top of [TS]

00:11:21   the line i always go to the head of the [TS]

00:11:22   queue and I let to 25 people to 25 more [TS]

00:11:27   people in and then take it you aren't [TS]

00:11:31   you unclasp the velvet rope that's right [TS]

00:11:34   and I say go outside please bring your [TS]

00:11:36   face to my book [TS]

00:11:37   yeah and so today it was whose jenn [TS]

00:11:41   louis and it was who is this person that [TS]

00:11:47   does the rilo kiley person I don't think [TS]

00:11:50   we were already friends huh [TS]

00:11:52   and then this next person has a has an [TS]

00:11:55   avatar that is a it's a furry it's a [TS]

00:11:58   it's a free raccoon to free face friend [TS]

00:12:01   a very friend so uh so that's exciting [TS]

00:12:05   so that's one thing that I want bad name [TS]

00:12:07   5,000 friend limit 5,000 friend limited [TS]

00:12:10   they have a sense of they have a sense [TS]

00:12:12   of what's of justice here and then the [TS]

00:12:15   other thing the other thing i know i'm [TS]

00:12:16   doing right i was walking along and I [TS]

00:12:20   saw an orange handle on the ground and a [TS]

00:12:26   what kind of handle you might ask who [TS]

00:12:28   it's like a broom handle but it's only [TS]

00:12:32   about 16 18 inches long let's say 18 and [TS]

00:12:37   lets it not quite two feet sort of like [TS]

00:12:40   the cap on a push broom [TS]

00:12:41   that's it is it's a push broom like [TS]

00:12:45   handle it has it is threaded on one end [TS]

00:12:47   and it's meant i think to go into a [TS]

00:12:50   squeegee over right it's like a window [TS]

00:12:53   washer tool it's unused it's not like [TS]

00:12:57   well no no it's been used [TS]

00:13:00   bright orange and I saw it on the ground [TS]

00:13:03   it and appeal to me I picked it up and [TS]

00:13:07   I've been carrying it around and it you [TS]

00:13:10   know it's exactly the right left that [TS]

00:13:12   you can kind of spin it between your [TS]

00:13:14   fingers you know it's like it's big it's [TS]

00:13:17   a stick right you could you could whack [TS]

00:13:19   somebody with it but it also you can [TS]

00:13:21   twirl it in your hand that's a very [TS]

00:13:23   satisfying a circumference and it and [TS]

00:13:26   it's you know it's got broom-handle [TS]

00:13:27   weight and I can you know as I i was [TS]

00:13:31   sitting here right before you called and [TS]

00:13:32   I was just kinda here i'll give you a [TS]

00:13:34   little sound effect just back in my leg [TS]

00:13:37   it interesting so it stands in for its [TS]

00:13:43   it's not a walking stick [TS]

00:13:44   it's not a riding crop no not a baton [TS]

00:13:46   it's certainly not a baseball bat [TS]

00:13:48   it's it's a it's not one of those giants [TS]

00:13:50   tix he used to hit your tire but you're [TS]

00:13:52   actually using it to to beat up people [TS]

00:13:54   at truck stops but this fits into it is [TS]

00:13:56   a nice place in your life you saw it you [TS]

00:13:58   were attracted to it and you just knew [TS]

00:13:59   that would have the hand weight and feel [TS]

00:14:00   that you're looking for exactly it does [TS]

00:14:02   all of the things it scratches the itch [TS]

00:14:05   of every single one of those things that [TS]

00:14:07   you just described the tire thumper the [TS]

00:14:10   riding crop [TS]

00:14:12   the walking stick the torso a baton [TS]

00:14:18   right in a mini-me can't stand it's a [TS]

00:14:21   lot of things like sort of like a [TS]

00:14:22   receptor em who and so on and the and [TS]

00:14:26   the orange color i think if it had been [TS]

00:14:28   blue maybe I would have left it on the [TS]

00:14:30   ground but the orange color was very [TS]

00:14:31   intriguing to me and so now i have a [TS]

00:14:34   thing right i have i have found at least [TS]

00:14:35   for the in this context i have found a [TS]

00:14:38   small duck it is this stick and it's [TS]

00:14:42   giving me like it's it's you know it's [TS]

00:14:45   giving my fingers something to do it's [TS]

00:14:48   just dangerous enough that i'm almost [TS]

00:14:51   certain to whack myself with it like [TS]

00:14:54   wrongly at some point for her which [TS]

00:14:56   gives which gives my you know my [TS]

00:14:58   possession of a little bit of an edge [TS]

00:15:00   they provide you with a certain amount [TS]

00:15:01   of alertness that's right that's exactly [TS]

00:15:03   right it's keeping me in the game keep [TS]

00:15:05   my head in the game so I feel like in [TS]

00:15:07   that respect I have sort of a stitt [TS]

00:15:11   today it's very close in color but [TS]

00:15:14   different in color to my bell [TS]

00:15:18   so I've got kind of an orange theme I [TS]

00:15:20   don't know I just feel like that this [TS]

00:15:22   little guy oh the other thing I did was [TS]

00:15:23   I put my water bottle in the in the [TS]

00:15:25   refrigerator last night and now my water [TS]

00:15:28   bottle is I was good i got tired of [TS]

00:15:30   drinking hot water oh so there are few [TS]

00:15:33   things i know i'm not going to get [TS]

00:15:35   around here and say that I'm that I [TS]

00:15:36   don't know anything I do know a few [TS]

00:15:39   things [TS]

00:15:40   the small victories can be very [TS]

00:15:42   important [TS]

00:15:43   I really I really I really believe that [TS]

00:15:45   I think I think he started out everyday [TS]

00:15:47   on the bubble maybe at best and i think [TS]

00:15:49   you know sometimes it's something comes [TS]

00:15:51   along and you say hey this is the [TS]

00:15:52   direction you need to go [TS]

00:15:54   what does that phrase me on the bubble I [TS]

00:15:56   think it has to do I think of it as [TS]

00:15:57   being like a like a level a carpenter's [TS]

00:16:00   level where oh yeah [TS]

00:16:03   beware when it's when it's you know [TS]

00:16:04   across the event that is exactly [TS]

00:16:06   horizontal the the little bubble in the [TS]

00:16:09   green liquid is exactly the right place [TS]

00:16:10   you're on the bubble [TS]

00:16:12   I don't know I don't know why that's [TS]

00:16:13   what i think of any way but you know [TS]

00:16:15   they're just mean that it could go [TS]

00:16:16   either way [TS]

00:16:17   yeah I i well I wonder I I I think [TS]

00:16:21   sometimes what well you know a lot of a [TS]

00:16:25   lot of our podcast yours in mine one of [TS]

00:16:28   the major themes has been what are we [TS]

00:16:30   doing what are we meant to do and what [TS]

00:16:34   are we actually doing and and I feel [TS]

00:16:42   like I feel like I'm just trying to get [TS]

00:16:45   on the bubble [TS]

00:16:45   I'm just trying to get get that bubble [TS]

00:16:48   somewhere huh [TS]

00:16:49   I when I went hiking yesterday with my [TS]

00:16:52   family we hiked up to a mountain lake [TS]

00:16:54   and we're some of the only people there [TS]

00:16:58   there was a there was some kind of dead [TS]

00:17:00   critter it was truly mountainous and and [TS]

00:17:06   the ladies in my party all jumped in [TS]

00:17:09   this freezing mountain lake and I kind [TS]

00:17:12   of took my shoes off and waded into my [TS]

00:17:14   knees which is that was that that was [TS]

00:17:17   right where I was comfortable was very [TS]

00:17:19   it was cold mountain lake and I was you [TS]

00:17:21   know I was I was being watchful eye was [TS]

00:17:24   I didn't want to jump in the lake I [TS]

00:17:26   wanted to kind of keep one not a foot on [TS]

00:17:29   the shore but i wanted to be ready to [TS]

00:17:31   you know you don't know what's gonna [TS]

00:17:32   happen up there in the mountains like we [TS]

00:17:33   heard coyotes and you know and I was [TS]

00:17:39   there and I was like okay my is this [TS]

00:17:41   this was this was absolutely where I was [TS]

00:17:44   meant to be right now right this is I am [TS]

00:17:47   exactly where I need to be right now [TS]

00:17:50   um and and hey if you can get if you can [TS]

00:17:57   I feel like if you can even get that [TS]

00:17:59   once a day like this is exactly where [TS]

00:18:01   i'll try and meant to be right now [TS]

00:18:05   uh-huh like you're you are your triumph [TS]

00:18:08   in a little bit at least i'll totally oh [TS]

00:18:11   no III hundred percent agree yeah when [TS]

00:18:14   was the last time that you felt like [TS]

00:18:15   that you were exactly where you were [TS]

00:18:19   meant to be [TS]

00:18:19   well this is gonna be a false positive [TS]

00:18:21   because i rarely get it because I'm [TS]

00:18:24   broken inside and now I can't stop [TS]

00:18:26   thinking about the motherfucking [TS]

00:18:27   kool-aid man coming through my wall haha [TS]

00:18:30   son there's something about the enough [TS]

00:18:33   and the analogy of the anxiety kool-aid [TS]

00:18:35   man that has now kind of taken over as [TS]

00:18:38   controlling metaphor for my own mental [TS]

00:18:39   landscape and sorry i know i mean you [TS]

00:18:43   know it's a it is this happens rare [TS]

00:18:45   enough that i did really enough that I [TS]

00:18:46   really notice it [TS]

00:18:47   uh we mentioned i think fly we went away [TS]

00:18:51   for the weekend to visit family the [TS]

00:18:54   family you know our in-laws that we [TS]

00:18:55   visit pretty often they've recently [TS]

00:18:57   moved like much further away than where [TS]

00:18:59   they were before they're out like east [TS]

00:19:00   of Sacramento now and it's in an area [TS]

00:19:03   that I would almost described as like [TS]

00:19:04   the suburban Country like I I don't know [TS]

00:19:07   a lot about California but there are [TS]

00:19:08   these areas where not much happens for a [TS]

00:19:10   while and then you get into this this [TS]

00:19:12   area that's like a weird combination of [TS]

00:19:15   like gated communities but also like [TS]

00:19:17   fairly what I think it's the kind of [TS]

00:19:19   places that tend to go up like tinder [TS]

00:19:21   during a wildfire like you're out in the [TS]

00:19:23   middle of you know that they have a [TS]

00:19:25   creek behind their house and with [TS]

00:19:26   crawdads in it and we go and we draw the [TS]

00:19:28   crawdads it's really fun and a 10 you [TS]

00:19:31   draw the kroger my my daughter is kind [TS]

00:19:34   of a what's less than amateur a terrible [TS]

00:19:37   and [TS]

00:19:37   naturalist she likes looking at things [TS]

00:19:39   and holding them in collecting the golf [TS]

00:19:40   balls that people have hit into the [TS]

00:19:41   creek where so many golf balls and a [TS]

00:19:45   part of nature and they got credits [TS]

00:19:47   which is kind of cool sort of my tiny [TS]

00:19:49   lobsters when you said draw the crawdads [TS]

00:19:51   I thought that was a southern way of [TS]

00:19:54   describing catching them but you're [TS]

00:19:56   literally drawing them with pen and [TS]

00:19:57   paper sketching them George driving the [TS]

00:20:00   crawdad sounds like a terrible guided by [TS]

00:20:01   voices wreck all we were out there [TS]

00:20:03   drawing the crawdads and grew up for 25 [TS]

00:20:07   / a sketch the mudflat family a but [TS]

00:20:10   skipper would slap much fun so I now [TS]

00:20:14   that's a gross word that goes on with [TS]

00:20:16   face mudflap the word flap is so groups [TS]

00:20:20   well I i I'm may not have ever told you [TS]

00:20:23   the story but I was sitting I was [TS]

00:20:24   sitting on the side of the road one time [TS]

00:20:27   with a with an an older guy and we're [TS]

00:20:32   just sort of shooting the shit I was [TS]

00:20:34   there with a friend and he was there [TS]

00:20:35   with a friend the older guy was with a [TS]

00:20:37   friend and a really nice Cadillac drove [TS]

00:20:41   by and the old man said that's a nice [TS]

00:20:45   car and I said that's not really my [TS]

00:20:47   style I like it I like a little bit [TS]

00:20:51   grittier than you know that's all that's [TS]

00:20:53   all dandy it up and he said oh you're [TS]

00:20:57   one of them mud ducks my ducks and that [TS]

00:21:03   sounds like that sounds like a sexy [TS]

00:21:04   thing a mud duck and then my friend [TS]

00:21:06   seized upon it and still to this day [TS]

00:21:10   calls me mud Archie see that's how it [TS]

00:21:12   starts [TS]

00:21:12   just like snotboogie anyway so you're [TS]

00:21:15   out there in Grass Valley California [TS]

00:21:16   working app grass valley Greg were way [TS]

00:21:19   the heck out the middle to know and [TS]

00:21:20   believe me I have so many things to tell [TS]

00:21:21   you about this weekend but but you know [TS]

00:21:23   I'm in retrospect there was just this is [TS]

00:21:25   really dumb personal but my daughter [TS]

00:21:28   loves going to the family's new house [TS]

00:21:30   they have a hammock in the backyard and [TS]

00:21:32   we were just laying there kind of [TS]

00:21:34   perpendicular in the hammock kind of [TS]

00:21:36   just cuddling and being silly [TS]

00:21:39   yeah but I mean you know it isn't like i [TS]

00:21:42   think you know we need to disabuse [TS]

00:21:45   ourselves of the of the like we're [TS]

00:21:47   I don't know Norman Rockwell fifties [TS]

00:21:49   idea about how families actually spend [TS]

00:21:50   time together a lot of it's excruciating [TS]

00:21:52   it is actually extremely rare to have [TS]

00:21:54   the moments that are depicted in things [TS]

00:21:55   like coca-cola commercials and and but [TS]

00:21:58   when it does happen and you're not [TS]

00:21:59   trying to create a coca-cola moment it's [TS]

00:22:01   actually really nice so we were just [TS]

00:22:02   laying there and we do something there's [TS]

00:22:03   a thing we do where we take a sound and [TS]

00:22:06   then we try to figure out all the words [TS]

00:22:08   that you get the alphabet and how many [TS]

00:22:09   words you can make out that sound and [TS]

00:22:11   that becomes a song and we're just [TS]

00:22:14   sitting there and I was like you know [TS]

00:22:15   this is actually really nice and she [TS]

00:22:17   went inside to play on the ipad but it [TS]

00:22:18   was nice and but i find those moments [TS]

00:22:25   very rare maybe partly because of the [TS]

00:22:27   kool-aid man but uh but it does it does [TS]

00:22:30   happen it does happen but I see now I [TS]

00:22:32   had numerous things I you know numerous [TS]

00:22:35   times with the family where I felt like [TS]

00:22:37   I was not participating as much as i [TS]

00:22:39   should like in your case you go in up to [TS]

00:22:41   your up to your you know calves I [TS]

00:22:43   finally at length put on my swimsuit and [TS]

00:22:45   got in the pool with everybody but I [TS]

00:22:46   don't love that you know it John [TS]

00:22:49   everybody's got tattoos now know your [TS]

00:22:51   resume i see I this is the thing I live [TS]

00:22:53   in a bubble and then I go out to the to [TS]

00:22:55   the suburban Country land and like I'm [TS]

00:22:58   on me like like there's there's not a [TS]

00:23:00   clean ankle in that County yeah there's [TS]

00:23:03   some kind of some kind of shitty [TS]

00:23:05   insignia affixed to every leg where they [TS]

00:23:10   live and boy people buy clothes to show [TS]

00:23:12   it off and like you know God love you [TS]

00:23:14   i'm glad you're having the life you want [TS]

00:23:15   but it makes me incredibly uncomfortable [TS]

00:23:17   yeah and uh huh I mean everybody you [TS]

00:23:20   know and I think sometimes like moms and [TS]

00:23:22   dads get sympathy and tattoos because [TS]

00:23:24   their kids have already gotten in way [TS]

00:23:25   over their head in there in the in the [TS]

00:23:26   tattoos in their twenties I think they [TS]

00:23:28   get a sympathy tattoo maybe get a [TS]

00:23:29   memorial tattoo your Tweety Bird you get [TS]

00:23:32   some kind of like a really poorly drawn [TS]

00:23:34   trouble clef oh I've seen since I've [TS]

00:23:37   seen so many insignias oh oh my goodness [TS]

00:23:40   but no I'm not always participating as [TS]

00:23:42   much as i showed him you know I go [TS]

00:23:44   through my moods but yeah oh yeah oh I [TS]

00:23:46   know I know not [TS]

00:23:47   I'm pretty I'm usually a pretty jolly [TS]

00:23:49   guy but you know sometimes it's just [TS]

00:23:50   like a [TS]

00:23:51   hey kool-aid kool-aid [TS]

00:23:55   oh yeah yeah crashing baby boomer with a [TS]

00:23:59   big Fred you're gonna retire [TS]

00:24:01   oh yeah haha oh yeah I had that [TS]

00:24:05   conversation you know god please no [TS]

00:24:07   company where i figger morning come on [TS]

00:24:10   I said listen the only real wealth is [TS]

00:24:12   property i heard that where I heard [TS]

00:24:15   those words come out of my mouth the [TS]

00:24:16   only real wealth his property and the [TS]

00:24:20   people are always talking to world like [TS]

00:24:22   you said like James Earl Jones and cohen [TS]

00:24:24   know what is a good one person kinda [TS]

00:24:29   looked out the window the other person [TS]

00:24:30   started twirling their hair and I was [TS]

00:24:32   like no listen it was it was it was a [TS]

00:24:34   non sequitur we sitting a little bit [TS]

00:24:36   like bad puffing on your on your on your [TS]

00:24:38   uh your mirror Shami or your calabash in [TS]

00:24:41   you go [TS]

00:24:42   the only real well as proper traffic i [TS]

00:24:44   looked i think i looked up from a [TS]

00:24:46   newspaper looked over the ground [TS]

00:24:48   scratching yourself at the same time the [TS]

00:24:50   real world looks and you know what [TS]

00:24:52   there's something I want my daughter to [TS]

00:24:54   know gather out the only real world is [TS]

00:24:57   probably real well that's true yeah [TS]

00:25:00   never going to retire Jesus and and can [TS]

00:25:04   only get can only be comfortable with [TS]

00:25:07   other people are in brief a brief moment [TS]

00:25:10   you think we're really different you and [TS]

00:25:13   me roar us and the world [TS]

00:25:16   well I knew you and I were corner cases [TS]

00:25:18   but like I I used to think of us as [TS]

00:25:21   being very very a different and now I [TS]

00:25:23   think we might share a kool-aid man m [TS]

00:25:26   kool-aid man as a service [TS]

00:25:28   one of one of my quotes from yesterday [TS]

00:25:29   you know we were we were hiking it was a [TS]

00:25:31   it was a truly a mountain mountain hike [TS]

00:25:33   and my little girl has gone on some [TS]

00:25:37   she's become some forced marches with us [TS]

00:25:39   before before no and the you know in my [TS]

00:25:43   long-term goal which was to get her to [TS]

00:25:45   think that hiking in the mountains is [TS]

00:25:46   normal is starting to take effect right [TS]

00:25:50   she no longer complains she [TS]

00:25:54   she knows better she just she assumed [TS]

00:25:57   that this is you know that we're gonna [TS]

00:25:58   do any was quite a long hike it was it [TS]

00:26:00   was a few miles up in a few miles down [TS]

00:26:02   my goodness on her little legs ya up to [TS]

00:26:04   the up to the mountains but what I what [TS]

00:26:06   I started to notice was you know she she [TS]

00:26:09   is a narrator right she is narrating all [TS]

00:26:12   the time and when she's narrating show [TS]

00:26:17   get up into a word storm and forget [TS]

00:26:20   where she is forget what she's doing but [TS]

00:26:22   she's on a mountain trail so she would [TS]

00:26:24   then immediately slip-and-fall she felt [TS]

00:26:28   one at one point yesterday face-first [TS]

00:26:31   into a stream [TS]

00:26:33   no it didn't know she was just stopping [TS]

00:26:35   out and tripped and plop right like face [TS]

00:26:39   in a stream and that was a surprise that [TS]

00:26:41   it was really actually quite priceless [TS]

00:26:45   oh no I she wasn't horribly injured no [TS]

00:26:48   and woman she was coming it we were [TS]

00:26:51   hiking in the mountains we were all [TS]

00:26:52   injured by the end but at a certain [TS]

00:26:55   point I i became a dad right and I [TS]

00:26:59   started to say less talking more walking [TS]

00:27:03   and I heard myself say it again and then [TS]

00:27:08   I was like it's my mantra it's my dad [TS]

00:27:10   mantra for the day and every time i [TS]

00:27:13   would say you would stop and she would [TS]

00:27:15   think about it for a while and she would [TS]

00:27:16   walk and she would walk without falling [TS]

00:27:17   and then after a while you know we can [TS]

00:27:20   die in the end I and there were a couple [TS]

00:27:22   of identity to the rules right if you [TS]

00:27:24   have a question about anything you can [TS]

00:27:26   always ask a question are you allowed to [TS]

00:27:28   pause and stop walking [TS]

00:27:30   you can pause and stop walking and look [TS]

00:27:31   at stuff there long i can see a lot of [TS]

00:27:34   it [TS]

00:27:34   potential abuse right up right there [TS]

00:27:38   there's a certain amount of that but we [TS]

00:27:39   did we play a game where it's like who's [TS]

00:27:41   that who's the locomotive who is the [TS]

00:27:43   who's the hopper car and who's the [TS]

00:27:45   caboose [TS]

00:27:47   so if you use if you stop and want to [TS]

00:27:50   like look at something then you know [TS]

00:27:53   we'll all stop and look but if you're [TS]

00:27:55   your laggin and you're the caboose you [TS]

00:27:59   know [TS]

00:28:00   remember you are four years old and the [TS]

00:28:02   this is a mountain forest [TS]

00:28:04   so you want a lag to collect too far [TS]

00:28:07   behind because the Coyotes ok [TS]

00:28:09   uh-huh yeah we should start a collection [TS]

00:28:11   of dad quotes i had 1i I like the [TS]

00:28:15   description of this as being something [TS]

00:28:16   you find yourself saying yeah no one [TS]

00:28:18   wakes up wanting to say say say certain [TS]

00:28:22   things but one finds oneself saying [TS]

00:28:23   things that you wear it's very you may [TS]

00:28:26   sound like your parents one's own [TS]

00:28:27   parents or you may sound like a whole [TS]

00:28:29   new kind of awful parents [TS]

00:28:31   yeah I sound I mean I never in my life [TS]

00:28:33   thought I would ever say less talking [TS]

00:28:34   more walking [TS]

00:28:35   how about this one um well you're just [TS]

00:28:38   gonna have to cry in the car which witch [TS]

00:28:44   is which is a version of less talking [TS]

00:28:46   more walking which is like an incorrect [TS]

00:28:49   I screwed up any attempt i might make to [TS]

00:28:52   take the lessons I've learned from my [TS]

00:28:53   child's wonderful school to say [TS]

00:28:55   something like hey you know it's okay to [TS]

00:28:56   feel sad [TS]

00:28:57   it's ok to have emotions it's okay to [TS]

00:28:59   cry but you know what did you can [TS]

00:29:00   anything we don't have time to cry here [TS]

00:29:07   no listen that's a lie i have have said [TS]

00:29:11   that voice why did they say that it's [TS]

00:29:12   know what a help save your feelings hold [TS]

00:29:16   them in when we get into the women get [TS]

00:29:19   into our safe bubble you can let them [TS]

00:29:21   out [TS]

00:29:22   we gotta go we got three hour drive la [TS]

00:29:24   grande Grande the car [TS]

00:29:26   listen grab your bag oh yeah so uh so i [TS]

00:29:33   have i've been i've been coping pretty [TS]

00:29:38   well lately by you know you know you [TS]

00:29:44   kind of we this is another thing that [TS]

00:29:46   you and I talked about a lot and I don't [TS]

00:29:48   think we've ever put a name to it but I [TS]

00:29:49   but I'm starting to think of it as [TS]

00:29:51   reverse-engineered Buddhism well that's [TS]

00:29:55   pretty good right where you're not going [TS]

00:29:57   into it Buddhistic Lee mhm but you you [TS]

00:30:02   arrive at it you arrive at Buddhism by [TS]

00:30:05   other by another path that's good and [TS]

00:30:09   I'm and I'm finding that I'm finding [TS]

00:30:11   that in my life [TS]

00:30:14   that it's actually very effective you [TS]

00:30:17   know Two and sometimes it involves some [TS]

00:30:22   swears right where I think of actual [TS]

00:30:25   Buddhism isn't as never involving any [TS]

00:30:27   swears see that's that's bad marketing [TS]

00:30:30   right that's the thing they don't tell [TS]

00:30:32   you this is what those Wall Street fat [TS]

00:30:34   cats don't want you to know that if [TS]

00:30:35   you're meditating and he was [TS]

00:30:36   uncomfortable experiences in your entire [TS]

00:30:38   life not just on your legs your behind [TS]

00:30:39   but like you're just supposed to sit [TS]

00:30:41   there and take it as your mind like goes [TS]

00:30:43   through everything that's wrong [TS]

00:30:45   well so many squares that's the thing so [TS]

00:30:47   many squares it's like it's like that [TS]

00:30:48   argument you and I had so many years ago [TS]

00:30:50   when I was like Christians shouldn't [TS]

00:30:51   smoke pot it's the same it's like [TS]

00:30:55   Buddhist shouldn't swear but of course [TS]

00:30:56   when you're meditating your mind is full [TS]

00:30:58   of swears your you are so full of [TS]

00:31:01   squares and that's that's how you feel [TS]

00:31:03   like I'm not doing this right and [TS]

00:31:05   percent alcohol your good John Wow king [TS]

00:31:07   but in fact it's all swears it's where's [TS]

00:31:10   all the way down [TS]

00:31:11   how did you so you know how did you [TS]

00:31:13   reverse engineer this but what's the [TS]

00:31:16   thing if I could ask if you want to say [TS]

00:31:17   what's the thing that occurs to you go [TS]

00:31:19   hmm here's the thing i could try here's [TS]

00:31:21   a thought technology i could experiment [TS]

00:31:23   with well so so running this campaign [TS]

00:31:28   for public office has been a extremely [TS]

00:31:32   difficult and emotionally difficult and [TS]

00:31:35   and practically difficult energetically [TS]

00:31:39   difficult and and so the difficulty like [TS]

00:31:45   breeds in me at least like and I think [TS]

00:31:49   in i think in most candidates like i was [TS]

00:31:51   talking the other day to a very [TS]

00:31:53   successful local politician who is like [TS]

00:31:56   sort of everybody everybody admires and [TS]

00:31:59   he turned to his wife and said you know [TS]

00:32:04   because i was talking about the pic the [TS]

00:32:06   trials of the campaign he turned to his [TS]

00:32:07   wife he said remember my first campaign [TS]

00:32:09   and she said yeah and he said I had a a [TS]

00:32:13   total nervous breakdown like I i thought [TS]

00:32:16   i was going to end up in a rubber room [TS]

00:32:18   oh wow and I think that that is true of [TS]

00:32:22   everyone that's one of the things that [TS]

00:32:24   people don't really know it's so easy to [TS]

00:32:26   look at [TS]

00:32:27   political candidates and think oh [TS]

00:32:31   they're ego-driven it's all for glory [TS]

00:32:35   it's all for their you know they just [TS]

00:32:36   like to hear the sound of their own [TS]

00:32:37   voice all this kind of stuff that we put [TS]

00:32:40   on political candidates and and there's [TS]

00:32:43   no way to know even as a I mean even as [TS]

00:32:46   a total political voyeur and tourists as [TS]

00:32:50   I feel like I've been my whole life [TS]

00:32:51   watching candidates and watching the [TS]

00:32:53   process there's just no way to know how [TS]

00:32:55   much you know how exposed you are how [TS]

00:33:01   vulnerable you are and how much the [TS]

00:33:03   process of running for office is to just [TS]

00:33:05   put yourself over and over in front of [TS]

00:33:07   people who are communicating to you in [TS]

00:33:11   every way that the best you can do is to [TS]

00:33:16   be that the best that you're going to [TS]

00:33:18   get from them is that they're going to [TS]

00:33:19   give you a face like they're sucking on [TS]

00:33:21   a lemon right like every day you're just [TS]

00:33:24   you wake up in the morning like I'm [TS]

00:33:25   gonna have to go out and I'm gonna meet [TS]

00:33:27   600 people today and they're all going [TS]

00:33:29   to give me a lemon face and then at the [TS]

00:33:31   end of the day maybe I'll remember to [TS]

00:33:34   eat so there's not that you know the [TS]

00:33:38   idea that anybody would do it for that [TS]

00:33:40   the idea that it is self-aggrandizing or [TS]

00:33:43   that you that you do it and it's just [TS]

00:33:45   like strokes the whole time right is so [TS]

00:33:48   far off and there's so much easier ways [TS]

00:33:51   to do that [TS]

00:33:51   all right i mean if you I mean anyway [TS]

00:33:53   now just go on facebook and put a bunch [TS]

00:33:55   of put a bunch of selfies on there and [TS]

00:33:58   talk about your surgery you're you're [TS]

00:34:02   already you're already like getting so [TS]

00:34:05   many more ego strokes then even the [TS]

00:34:08   president of the united states right i [TS]

00:34:10   mean it's just like running for office [TS]

00:34:12   is so hard and and there have been [TS]

00:34:15   multiple multiple times where I've just [TS]

00:34:17   you know kind of like my friend the [TS]

00:34:19   successful politician where I don't feel [TS]

00:34:22   like I'm going to end up in a rubber [TS]

00:34:23   room but I'd but you get that you get [TS]

00:34:24   that very human cornered feeling just [TS]

00:34:28   like everywhere I look there is [TS]

00:34:31   something bad about to happen and it's [TS]

00:34:35   an and none of it is going to register [TS]

00:34:38   as bad to people outside like you know I [TS]

00:34:40   was in a pro [TS]

00:34:41   is marked in the pride parade and [TS]

00:34:44   everybody around me and everybody that [TS]

00:34:47   saw me and took a picture of me is like [TS]

00:34:49   wow you're you know that must have been [TS]

00:34:52   amazing you're marching in the pride [TS]

00:34:54   parade but from my perspective like I'm [TS]

00:34:59   marching as a political candidate in the [TS]

00:35:02   pride parade and so the joy that people [TS]

00:35:06   are expressing um is not directed at me [TS]

00:35:11   right I am trying being a political [TS]

00:35:14   candidate I am arriving in a situation [TS]

00:35:16   where people are expressing joy and I'm [TS]

00:35:19   trying to grab it [TS]

00:35:21   I'm trying to grab your more like a [TS]

00:35:23   witness to joy yeah right or like i am [TS]

00:35:25   here is the is the best that you can be [TS]

00:35:28   right now if you if I had if I had an [TS]

00:35:31   enormous feathered headdress and was [TS]

00:35:33   wearing a g-string I would be like I am [TS]

00:35:38   giving back the joy that you are sending [TS]

00:35:41   right like I am I am Here I this parade [TS]

00:35:44   is an expression of my liberation you [TS]

00:35:46   know there are so many people in that [TS]

00:35:48   parade that are truly expressing like [TS]

00:35:50   something real and powerful and i am [TS]

00:35:53   saying i would like to be your elected [TS]

00:35:55   representative yeah like kind of like [TS]

00:35:57   almost a form of tourism and and so and [TS]

00:36:00   i don't and i think most most candidates [TS]

00:36:02   are most candidates are either not [TS]

00:36:05   sensitive i think i think ultimately to [TS]

00:36:07   be a successful political candidate he [TS]

00:36:09   cannot be sensitive [TS]

00:36:11   you can't have spent your whole [TS]

00:36:12   professional career trying to be [TS]

00:36:14   emotionally raw which is what i have [TS]

00:36:16   done for now you are emotionally raw [TS]

00:36:20   you're an adult who is still emotionally [TS]

00:36:22   raw which is a rare enough thing in and [TS]

00:36:24   of itself and then you're putting [TS]

00:36:26   yourself into a situation where people [TS]

00:36:27   are like it's just like squeezing lemons [TS]

00:36:31   in your eyes all day so I think people [TS]

00:36:35   are marching in this parade and they are [TS]

00:36:36   not conscious of the fact that they are [TS]

00:36:38   uh or there or if they are conscious of [TS]

00:36:41   it they don't it's not connected to [TS]

00:36:42   their emotions that they are kind of [TS]

00:36:44   carpetbagging almost any situation [TS]

00:36:47   you're in as a candidate your [TS]

00:36:49   carpetbagging unless it is an event that [TS]

00:36:52   you have set up yourself for people to [TS]

00:36:54   come [TS]

00:36:54   yellow you about streetcars um but but [TS]

00:37:00   so so I'm arriving at this [TS]

00:37:02   I'm arriving at this backdoor Buddhism [TS]

00:37:04   because literally I it's the only I mean [TS]

00:37:10   I it's not a stratagem my employ in it [TS]

00:37:14   is a last resort of how am I going to [TS]

00:37:19   make it to the end of today and then I [TS]

00:37:22   find myself like trying to just be [TS]

00:37:27   present and trying to recognize the you [TS]

00:37:30   know all these are all these notions [TS]

00:37:35   that I've I learned or heard of her but [TS]

00:37:39   in other ways other different kinds of [TS]

00:37:41   practice and I'm actually it's the it's [TS]

00:37:43   the only thing that that will get me to [TS]

00:37:48   the end of the day and that's really you [TS]

00:37:52   know that's where you get to the to the [TS]

00:37:53   kind of the mathematics of the soul [TS]

00:37:56   right where you we just you find the [TS]

00:38:00   core principles that are true across all [TS]

00:38:02   religions are you find the core [TS]

00:38:04   principles that are just that are that [TS]

00:38:06   are the equations [TS]

00:38:08   uh-huh at the start of the Spirit is [TS]

00:38:10   written in because you you you get to a [TS]

00:38:16   place where you're justyou're you have [TS]

00:38:17   you are in the particle accelerator of [TS]

00:38:21   the of the Spirit and it just breaks it [TS]

00:38:26   down to two those you know the elements [TS]

00:38:31   i guess there's an element of any port [TS]

00:38:35   in a storm [TS]

00:38:36   um well or you know it's for it [TS]

00:38:41   it's funny because you mean there are [TS]

00:38:46   aspects of what I'm doing where I have [TS]

00:38:47   never cared so much about i think i'm [TS]

00:38:53   doing right I've never I mean maybe [TS]

00:38:55   maybe making records ye you care so [TS]

00:38:59   deeply about it but but the thing about [TS]

00:39:01   making a record is your caring about [TS]

00:39:03   each aspect of it [TS]

00:39:06   it's very hard to care about the record [TS]

00:39:10   while you're making it because what [TS]

00:39:12   you're what you really care about is [TS]

00:39:13   this bass part you're working on right [TS]

00:39:15   now and if you manage to care deeply [TS]

00:39:18   about this bass part and that tambourine [TS]

00:39:21   part and you never you never walked in [TS]

00:39:24   the studio and go out this tambourine [TS]

00:39:25   part doesn't matter just bang bang bang [TS]

00:39:28   but you go in every time ago like I [TS]

00:39:30   gotta get this tambourine part right [TS]

00:39:31   like this is going to be the thing that [TS]

00:39:32   really lifts this tune and you know so [TS]

00:39:35   you're carrying very deeply about the [TS]

00:39:36   parts and but you you never aware of [TS]

00:39:39   like Ike I'm i care about this record [TS]

00:39:41   you don't you don't think that if you [TS]

00:39:42   keep you if you're too much i said this [TS]

00:39:44   from some experience if you're too much [TS]

00:39:46   in that position you're probably not [TS]

00:39:48   making the record that's right it's just [TS]

00:39:50   it's there's something actually i [TS]

00:39:51   actually heard an interview this morning [TS]

00:39:53   on sound opinions they were talking to I [TS]

00:39:55   want to say the band Torres but this [TS]

00:39:57   woman Mackenzie something in this band [TS]

00:39:58   proposal sentence anyway and some point [TS]

00:40:01   recently heard an interview with [TS]

00:40:02   somebody where they were talking about [TS]

00:40:03   how dealing with I think I'm really [TS]

00:40:08   mangling this but somebody talking about [TS]

00:40:09   how like there's something really [TS]

00:40:10   comforting about actually being in the [TS]

00:40:11   studio and recording and its high [TS]

00:40:13   pressure is that is that's really kind [TS]

00:40:15   of knowable sort of high pressure and [TS]

00:40:17   because you you really are a tent-like [TS]

00:40:19   deep in the implementation details and [TS]

00:40:21   doing of things it's like when you're [TS]

00:40:23   outside of that rare environments and I [TS]

00:40:25   feel about recording the show were being [TS]

00:40:26   onstage I find it relaxing we do this is [TS]

00:40:28   this this is not is not the part that i [TS]

00:40:29   find difficult at all i love doing this [TS]

00:40:31   it's you know it's everything else [TS]

00:40:33   that's difficult and because that's when [TS]

00:40:35   you think about like what should you be [TS]

00:40:36   doing that you're not doing right now [TS]

00:40:38   you don't think I mean like it do you do [TS]

00:40:39   that to an extent but like if you're [TS]

00:40:40   really absorbed in what you're doing in [TS]

00:40:42   the studio was just thinking about a [TS]

00:40:43   baseline or tambourine like that's [TS]

00:40:45   that's really freeing yeah and and when [TS]

00:40:48   and that is the opposite of what it is [TS]

00:40:50   like at least for me in running a [TS]

00:40:52   campaign because each individual event [TS]

00:40:55   in the campaign like none of them and [TS]

00:41:01   not very few of them at least is thus [TS]

00:41:03   far our are moments where it's like I [TS]

00:41:08   really have to get this bass part right [TS]

00:41:10   you know each each one of them at least [TS]

00:41:11   four and i think there are candidates [TS]

00:41:13   who every every time they appear in [TS]

00:41:16   front of the like concerned shoppers of [TS]

00:41:18   America [TS]

00:41:19   they want to you know they want to give [TS]

00:41:21   their stump speech a little bit better [TS]

00:41:23   and tailor it to this concern shoppers [TS]

00:41:26   but for me each one of those events is [TS]

00:41:30   just like oh there's nothing i want to [TS]

00:41:32   do less than go talk to the concerned [TS]

00:41:34   shoppers of america and it's not because [TS]

00:41:36   I'm not interested in hearing what the [TS]

00:41:40   concern shoppers are concerned about it [TS]

00:41:43   is that every one of these things is it [TS]

00:41:45   is is a kind of theater and they are not [TS]

00:41:49   really telling me what they're concerned [TS]

00:41:50   about like there is there's very little [TS]

00:41:52   real communication happening if any real [TS]

00:41:57   communication does happen in these [TS]

00:41:58   events it is by accident and yet so so [TS]

00:42:02   every one of the building block events [TS]

00:42:04   is kind of really hard much much harder [TS]

00:42:08   than than what you get out of it you [TS]

00:42:11   know what I mean like it's almost over [TS]

00:42:13   what do they call it in sports is it [TS]

00:42:15   like the compulsories and in-store or [TS]

00:42:17   like you know if anything we're like you [TS]

00:42:19   or time trial kind of thing where you [TS]

00:42:22   have to compete in order to be allowed [TS]

00:42:24   to compete right right right exactly [TS]

00:42:26   right and so that in one way obviously [TS]

00:42:28   that is very similar to a primary you're [TS]

00:42:30   competing before you're allowed to [TS]

00:42:32   compete but the other part of it is that [TS]

00:42:33   and I i might be over dramatizing this a [TS]

00:42:36   little bit but it seems to me like every [TS]

00:42:37   event you go to what you're trying to [TS]

00:42:38   avoid saying is that it sounds like is [TS]

00:42:41   that these can't all be the most [TS]

00:42:42   important high-stakes thing in the world [TS]

00:42:44   for you perish like but you also have to [TS]

00:42:47   take each one of those seriously because [TS]

00:42:49   while there's not an eternal like huge [TS]

00:42:53   amount of long-term gain from really [TS]

00:42:55   hitting it out of the park there are [TS]

00:42:57   there are potentially huge ramifications [TS]

00:42:58   if it goes terribly wrong [TS]

00:43:00   so it's one of those this it's like all [TS]

00:43:02   the worst kind of existential compressor [TS]

00:43:03   limiter were like no matter how great it [TS]

00:43:05   gets you're ok you're good now these [TS]

00:43:07   three hundred shoppers might consider [TS]

00:43:09   you but if you say something wrong or [TS]

00:43:11   you fart or something like that like it [TS]

00:43:12   could go it could be potentially [TS]

00:43:14   catastrophic is now there's now there's [TS]

00:43:16   really some news report on ya and every [TS]

00:43:18   single you know every single moment is [TS]

00:43:23   an opportunity for somebody to stand up [TS]

00:43:27   and say when did you stop beating your [TS]

00:43:28   wife [TS]

00:43:29   right you're just like you know a god [TS]

00:43:32   it's happy you know like it's always [TS]

00:43:34   there's every morning waking up and [TS]

00:43:37   looking at the internet it's just like [TS]

00:43:39   is today the day that the internet it [TS]

00:43:44   you know that I mean there there's one [TS]

00:43:46   guy in my race that that that wants to [TS]

00:43:50   win badly enough that he is willing to [TS]

00:43:53   be he's willing to attack me personally [TS]

00:43:56   that gets it gets too desperate he's [TS]

00:43:58   more than willing to to go negative [TS]

00:44:01   yeah he's demonstrated it already a [TS]

00:44:03   couple of times and that the attacks [TS]

00:44:05   have been sort of ineffective because [TS]

00:44:07   he's just but he's he really is he [TS]

00:44:13   really wants it and what I have learned [TS]

00:44:17   the way I have learned to survive this [TS]

00:44:21   is to arrive at a place where it is it's [TS]

00:44:29   really funny because as I say I have [TS]

00:44:31   never cared so much about the overall [TS]

00:44:35   project I've never cared so much about [TS]

00:44:39   the about the thing i'm doing but I have [TS]

00:44:44   also had to learn to say it like [TS]

00:44:49   ultimate Lee I'm fine with any result [TS]

00:44:54   i'm fine with either result like if i [TS]

00:44:57   win [TS]

00:44:58   that is a that is cause for celebration [TS]

00:45:02   if I do not win that is also that is [TS]

00:45:07   also fine for that is also like even a [TS]

00:45:10   it is a it will be a profound lesson and [TS]

00:45:16   experience and i don't mean personally [TS]

00:45:18   like I'm not talking about this like [TS]

00:45:20   what a journey right but like I will I i [TS]

00:45:26   already know so much more than I ever [TS]

00:45:27   knew and that knowledge is going to be [TS]

00:45:33   useful to me down the road and and I you [TS]

00:45:39   know and i know i want to [TS]

00:45:41   I know that helping other people helping [TS]

00:45:44   my fellows is one of my core principles [TS]

00:45:47   and now I know how to do that better but [TS]

00:45:50   ultimately if I if I focus on winning if [TS]

00:45:56   that is the goal then there's there are [TS]

00:46:00   so many opportunities every day to do [TS]

00:46:03   something in order to win that is [TS]

00:46:07   against my beliefs her and so I cannot [TS]

00:46:11   focus on winning because I see what it [TS]

00:46:15   does to people and and there are [TS]

00:46:20   hundreds and hundreds of people who want [TS]

00:46:22   to facilitate you making the wrong [TS]

00:46:25   choice in order to win right that's the [TS]

00:46:28   whole consultant game it's just like oh [TS]

00:46:32   you want to win I'll tell you how to win [TS]

00:46:34   you put you know you you you unscrew [TS]

00:46:38   your opponent's brake lines and there's [TS]

00:46:40   always another devil to appear on your [TS]

00:46:41   shoulder [TS]

00:46:42   yeah and so you cannot think about [TS]

00:46:44   winning and if you're not thinking about [TS]

00:46:47   winning then you have to arrive at a [TS]

00:46:49   place where winning doesn't matter we're [TS]

00:46:50   winning isn't the goal the goal is [TS]

00:46:52   something else and you know like the [TS]

00:46:55   goal is not to keep your personal [TS]

00:46:57   integrity intact because i already had [TS]

00:46:59   my personal integrity intact before I [TS]

00:47:02   started running the race [TS]

00:47:03   this wasn't some isn't something where [TS]

00:47:05   it's like I need to find what find my [TS]

00:47:07   integrity like I had it right so the the [TS]

00:47:11   goal has to be something else and if it [TS]

00:47:14   isn't winning and if it isn't staying [TS]

00:47:16   honest rat no matter what the cost or [TS]

00:47:20   what the what the result you know that [TS]

00:47:23   that is this that is this that is this a [TS]

00:47:27   this arrival in a place of like [TS]

00:47:29   acceptance where I'm still I'm still [TS]

00:47:33   working hard and striving every day to [TS]

00:47:37   do the best job I can with the with the [TS]

00:47:41   constant friend with the constant [TS]

00:47:43   companion being the knowledge that i'm [TS]

00:47:47   not willing to do anything to win [TS]

00:47:50   and you know you know but not by [TS]

00:47:53   anything i mean you know when you do [TS]

00:47:55   like you know in yeah I I understand [TS]

00:47:57   what you mean [TS]

00:47:57   yeah and that at that that's the only [TS]

00:47:59   thing that gives me comfort right i mean [TS]

00:48:01   I will be I will like the anxiety will [TS]

00:48:03   well up in me to the point where I feel [TS]

00:48:07   like I have never felt so bad it's just [TS]

00:48:12   a terrible anxiety is a terrible [TS]

00:48:14   terrible feeling her and a and it will [TS]

00:48:18   it rises up and I feel so so so bad and [TS]

00:48:22   then I just say you know i'm not trying [TS]

00:48:26   to I'm not trying to win i'm trying to [TS]

00:48:29   do something else and you know I'm [TS]

00:48:33   trying to help [TS]

00:48:34   um and and that's that's getting me down [TS]

00:48:40   the road you know my pipe right I talked [TS]

00:48:42   to my mom the other day and she said I [TS]

00:48:44   was looking for sympathy first mistake [TS]

00:48:47   and she said you've had worse months [TS]

00:48:51   than this I was like mom that's not [TS]

00:48:54   helpful i need i need support [TS]

00:48:57   she was like that is support you've had [TS]

00:48:59   worse months than this you survived [TS]

00:49:00   worse than this so survive it [TS]

00:49:05   Wow no borders no quarter and I was like [TS]

00:49:09   she's right i have had worse months than [TS]

00:49:12   this and i have survived them and that [TS]

00:49:17   is good advice and that is a way of but [TS]

00:49:20   you know that's very different than like [TS]

00:49:22   you've gotta win [TS]

00:49:24   yeah I man i'm sorry that this is as [TS]

00:49:30   hard as it is the I mean I know you knew [TS]

00:49:34   going into this that were smarter than [TS]

00:49:35   this [TS]

00:49:36   yeah yay this is there also a practical [TS]

00:49:40   side to this though where I don't know [TS]

00:49:42   when you think about being this is not [TS]

00:49:45   just a true of a candidate with anybody [TS]

00:49:47   like if you're desperate to have some [TS]

00:49:49   thing and it's starting to seem less and [TS]

00:49:52   less likely that you're going to be able [TS]

00:49:54   to get it [TS]

00:49:55   there's a constant and growing [TS]

00:49:57   temptation to do or attempt more radical [TS]

00:50:01   things in order to get that thing [TS]

00:50:04   and this is what i worry about from my [TS]

00:50:06   opponents was right well here's what I [TS]

00:50:09   think about that also is that you know [TS]

00:50:11   that it's almost like I'm trying to [TS]

00:50:14   imagine like somebody who thinks they [TS]

00:50:15   can defend themselves by doing some kind [TS]

00:50:17   of like Daniel karate kick and mainly [TS]

00:50:21   just blowing up their pants and landing [TS]

00:50:22   on their face [TS]

00:50:23   it's like you one might try the most [TS]

00:50:25   radical thing in the world and it just [TS]

00:50:28   makes things worse and when you're [TS]

00:50:31   getting advice from the outside from [TS]

00:50:32   people who are like go do this and go do [TS]

00:50:34   that [TS]

00:50:34   it must be hard to know I mean they're [TS]

00:50:35   obviously there must be something to [TS]

00:50:37   come along you know I'm never gonna do [TS]

00:50:38   that there's no way but other kinds of [TS]

00:50:40   things like you've talked about the the [TS]

00:50:41   siren song of getting involved in a [TS]

00:50:43   certain kind of negativity where you [TS]

00:50:44   respond to what other people have said [TS]

00:50:46   to show how you would do that [TS]

00:50:47   differently or whatever where you [TS]

00:50:48   basically jump into somebody's at [TS]

00:50:49   responses publicly to start going in and [TS]

00:50:52   wrestling around to show how you're [TS]

00:50:54   different or to like sort of monetize [TS]

00:50:56   the shot in front of somebody else's bad [TS]

00:50:58   day which is luring but like does that [TS]

00:51:02   actually helped is the problem you know [TS]

00:51:05   and and i think one of the worst and [TS]

00:51:06   most anxiety producing things is as you [TS]

00:51:08   feel like you're not getting closer to [TS]

00:51:10   what is that you want you consider more [TS]

00:51:12   and more crazy things in order to get [TS]

00:51:13   there isn't that is not part of the [TS]

00:51:15   problem and now in your case now you [TS]

00:51:17   feel like you're someone at risk because [TS]

00:51:19   somebody else might be in that position [TS]

00:51:21   well yeah but somebody else is really in [TS]

00:51:25   that position and you know and i can [TS]

00:51:26   hear the mantra that other people say to [TS]

00:51:30   themselves which is you know [TS]

00:51:32   particularly when it gets down to the [TS]

00:51:35   wire when they say you know when you [TS]

00:51:38   look back on this are you gonna feel [TS]

00:51:39   like you did everything that you could [TS]

00:51:41   have done [TS]

00:51:41   do you want to look back at this and and [TS]

00:51:45   feel like you you didn't pull out all [TS]

00:51:47   the stops and what that I think for a [TS]

00:51:51   lot of people means as you near the [TS]

00:51:55   finish line is if there's somebody [TS]

00:51:58   running abreast of you or running a [TS]

00:52:00   little bit ahead of you you triple [TS]

00:52:02   instead of running your own campaign as [TS]

00:52:08   well as you can and may the best man win [TS]

00:52:13   alright maybe you know you know and and [TS]

00:52:16   in in American politics [TS]

00:52:18   and politics I guess everywhere there's [TS]

00:52:21   that it's this healthy dose of like [TS]

00:52:23   here's my platform here's my campaign [TS]

00:52:25   and also did you ever see generally look [TS]

00:52:29   at the other guy didn't really notice [TS]

00:52:31   how you know [TS]

00:52:33   did you really notice I was knows a [TS]

00:52:34   little crooked like theirs theirs that [TS]

00:52:38   that aspect where it's presented as like [TS]

00:52:42   a fair comparison [TS]

00:52:45   you should look at the two two of us and [TS]

00:52:47   pick the best one but you know but all [TS]

00:52:51   this Swift boating all this extra [TS]

00:52:53   information about the other person that [TS]

00:52:55   isn't true that's the that is just [TS]

00:52:57   throwing handfuls of sand [TS]

00:52:59   yeah and you know it speaks to it speaks [TS]

00:53:04   to the fact that [TS]

00:53:05   yeah here's an interesting insight i had [TS]

00:53:08   recently which is that i have i have [TS]

00:53:10   quite a few friends in Seattle who are [TS]

00:53:12   old friends in friends more than 20 [TS]

00:53:16   years who are active in the political [TS]

00:53:19   chatter there they'll never run for [TS]

00:53:23   office themselves but they are there [TS]

00:53:24   chatterers there on the internet there [TS]

00:53:26   put their public figures they're well [TS]

00:53:29   known as as members of a kind of like [TS]

00:53:38   yeah right the Intelligencia then the [TS]

00:53:43   nattering nabobs and although these [TS]

00:53:48   friends of mine are you know liberals in [TS]

00:53:53   every way they're on the wrong side of a [TS]

00:53:55   couple of issues they were both on the [TS]

00:53:56   wrong side of fifteen dollars an hour [TS]

00:53:58   minimum wage because they are business [TS]

00:54:01   their small business owners and they [TS]

00:54:02   didn't think about it they thought about [TS]

00:54:04   it from there from the terms of their [TS]

00:54:06   own bottom line rather than from the [TS]

00:54:09   long-term you know not just long-term [TS]

00:54:12   benefit of everybody but also like they [TS]

00:54:15   did not sense which way the political [TS]

00:54:16   winds were blowing [TS]

00:54:18   and they came out vocally against [TS]

00:54:21   fifteen dollars an hour at a time and I [TS]

00:54:23   think they both thought that they were [TS]

00:54:25   trying to be reasonable small business [TS]

00:54:27   people but they made public [TS]

00:54:31   pronouncements and then defended their [TS]

00:54:33   public pronouncements long after it was [TS]

00:54:37   clear that the the public wanted fifteen [TS]

00:54:40   dollars an hour and fifteen dollars an [TS]

00:54:42   hour was going to be good and that they [TS]

00:54:44   should have they should make up or they [TS]

00:54:47   should shut up or they should just you [TS]

00:54:49   know they should think about it and [TS]

00:54:50   change their minds [TS]

00:54:53   well so young political operatives of [TS]

00:54:57   which there are astonishingly large [TS]

00:54:59   number four right like there are so many [TS]

00:55:02   people in the their mid-twenties in the [TS]

00:55:06   political game and quite a few of them [TS]

00:55:12   have come up to me and said with a with [TS]

00:55:14   a like a sneer like a sneer and a spin a [TS]

00:55:18   and a and a smirk an ugly smirk have [TS]

00:55:22   said we're very concerned about your [TS]

00:55:25   relationship with these two guys and my [TS]

00:55:30   first response was like what do you mean [TS]

00:55:32   I've known those guys for 25 years [TS]

00:55:34   they're like my pals [TS]

00:55:35   well yeah but they're on the wrong side [TS]

00:55:39   of history there on the wrong side of [TS]

00:55:42   politics who and I go oh yeah right i [TS]

00:55:45   mean I totally disagree with them and I [TS]

00:55:47   disagreed with them at the time and any [TS]

00:55:50   right-thinking person disagrees with [TS]

00:55:51   them but now they're like damaged goods [TS]

00:55:53   now [TS]

00:55:53   well there but they're still my friend [TS]

00:55:55   alright lying right handed and and the [TS]

00:56:00   the ugly smirk was a way of [TS]

00:56:04   communicating that within the political [TS]

00:56:07   class it matters less what you say then [TS]

00:56:13   who your friends are [TS]

00:56:15   because among those people it is it's [TS]

00:56:19   considered a more reliable indicator of [TS]

00:56:21   what you're going to do [TS]

00:56:25   who your who your friends and associates [TS]

00:56:27   are then what you're babbling again your [TS]

00:56:29   back to that that issue that like at [TS]

00:56:32   least we know what to expect from this [TS]

00:56:33   guy that's right and so the print so [TS]

00:56:35   what I derived from that is that the [TS]

00:56:37   premise is the premise of of the [TS]

00:56:40   political class is that you are lying [TS]

00:56:44   when you say things and that what is [TS]

00:56:49   true is who you break bread with and [TS]

00:56:54   that was a that was a shock to me right [TS]

00:56:57   because I right I break bread with [TS]

00:56:59   everybody and it felt like the whole [TS]

00:57:03   break bread with that becomes kind of a [TS]

00:57:04   dog whistle were like if you want to [TS]

00:57:06   really know what this person is up to [TS]

00:57:07   look his look is on there [TS]

00:57:09   look who there that's right now with [TS]

00:57:11   who's that that's telegraphing a lot [TS]

00:57:13   more to people than what you say that [TS]

00:57:15   you're so that is it's a kind of [TS]

00:57:16   cynicism to say like what we know [TS]

00:57:18   everybody says what needs to be said [TS]

00:57:19   that day but let's look over time and [TS]

00:57:21   who they are they spending time with [TS]

00:57:22   yeah let's look at who their donors are [TS]

00:57:25   let's look at who there [TS]

00:57:27   whoo-hoo speaks on their behalf on [TS]

00:57:29   facebook you know that's how you judge [TS]

00:57:32   where a person stands and it's and I i [TS]

00:57:38   guess for most people who are running [TS]

00:57:40   for office they've been thinking about [TS]

00:57:43   this their whole adult lives right there [TS]

00:57:46   that that they have always made sure [TS]

00:57:48   that their friends are the right kind of [TS]

00:57:50   friends or they've all they only [TS]

00:57:52   associate with people within a narrow [TS]

00:57:55   band of of on the political spectrum and [TS]

00:58:00   in the in the the work that we do but [TS]

00:58:03   somebody like me who spent his whole [TS]

00:58:05   career in his whole life like sitting [TS]

00:58:08   down at a table with everybody and a lot [TS]

00:58:13   of them I a lot of them are people that [TS]

00:58:15   I love that I think are reprehensible [TS]

00:58:18   for the idea that you know that that my [TS]

00:58:26   friendship with them would somehow [TS]

00:58:29   compromised my my ability to to stand up [TS]

00:58:36   to them and to everybody and say [TS]

00:58:38   no here's the right course clearly like [TS]

00:58:41   this is the like my friends are over [TS]

00:58:43   here yelling but my friends are [TS]

00:58:45   ding-a-lings there's the ears the [TS]

00:58:47   politically like correct decision and [TS]

00:58:53   that is on that is that is foreign or or [TS]

00:58:58   I guess you know like have definitely [TS]

00:59:01   like non-traditional and-and-and-and-and [TS]

00:59:04   very suspicious to these to these people [TS]

00:59:08   who think that that think that the [TS]

00:59:10   languages is is a certain way and what [TS]

00:59:13   is what has been astonishing are [TS]

00:59:15   startling to me is that the idea that [TS]

00:59:18   the candidate is lying is presupposed by [TS]

00:59:25   is by these up political operatives who [TS]

00:59:29   who are some in some ways self-appointed [TS]

00:59:33   and in some ways see themselves as the [TS]

00:59:35   gatekeepers of this of the of the [TS]

00:59:38   operation the system and also the only [TS]

00:59:40   way that one could assume or infer that [TS]

00:59:43   everybody else is a liar is to first [TS]

00:59:45   understand and believe and accept that [TS]

00:59:47   the one is a liar [TS]

00:59:49   that is right that is so it's the same [TS]

00:59:50   if my same beef with hypocrisy that the [TS]

00:59:53   people who are most obsessed with [TS]

00:59:54   hypocrisy attend either be active [TS]

00:59:56   hypocrites for people who just sit [TS]

00:59:58   around waiting to be shown as a [TS]

00:59:59   hypocrite [TS]

00:59:59   hypocrite [TS]

01:00:00   Fred yeah and so the way it takes a [TS]

01:00:02   certain knows what it takes one to know [TS]

01:00:03   one kind of thing like you're always [TS]

01:00:04   sniffing around to be able to expose [TS]

01:00:06   somebody who has the same flaws and [TS]

01:00:08   vulnerabilities that you know you have [TS]

01:00:09   and these are the people leaning in [TS]

01:00:12   whispering advice to me conspiratorial [TS]

01:00:14   like these are the people who see [TS]

01:00:18   themselves as the in a lot of ways like [TS]

01:00:22   they present themselves as the beacons [TS]

01:00:24   of integrity they know that they know [TS]

01:00:27   the the the right decision and and they [TS]

01:00:30   are judging whether the candidates live [TS]

01:00:32   up to this expectation but then they [TS]

01:00:35   reveal that they are liars because they [TS]

01:00:37   presume everyone else is a liar and then [TS]

01:00:39   you realize like oh wow it is it's very [TS]

01:00:45   hard to to enter into this world and not [TS]

01:00:52   agree to to be a liar and not agree to [TS]

01:01:01   you not agree to presume that the other [TS]

01:01:06   guys lying not agree to presume that the [TS]

01:01:10   that who your friends are says more [TS]

01:01:12   about how you're going to vote then what [TS]

01:01:14   you say um and and and ultimately like [TS]

01:01:18   not agree that having an answer to [TS]

01:01:23   everything is better than being willing [TS]

01:01:26   to a to consider all the arguments and [TS]

01:01:33   it's a and and so there's a month left [TS]

01:01:37   before the primary and every day I have [TS]

01:01:40   to wake up and reaffirm these things and [TS]

01:01:45   reaffirming them is reaffirming them is [TS]

01:01:51   what allows me to get out of bed and go [TS]

01:01:52   through the process and it's so it's so [TS]

01:01:57   divorced from winning from trying to win [TS]

01:02:01   from doing whatever it takes to win that [TS]

01:02:05   I feel like I'm running a like i'm i'm [TS]

01:02:09   i'm running a race [TS]

01:02:11   but somehow i'm on though like I the the [TS]

01:02:15   other candidates are running on the [TS]

01:02:17   track and I'm up in the stands running [TS]

01:02:19   around like they're on the road and [TS]

01:02:22   you're in the dirt [TS]

01:02:23   sort of yeah writer I'm like running I'm [TS]

01:02:26   running through the trees and swinging [TS]

01:02:27   through the trees or I'm i'm flying [TS]

01:02:30   overhead and original that I made myself [TS]

01:02:32   it's like if you're Mario Kart goes on [TS]

01:02:33   the rough part of the tracks not gonna [TS]

01:02:35   go as fast so so I don't know you know [TS]

01:02:38   and i can i keep saying to the people [TS]

01:02:39   closest to me like in a month i will [TS]

01:02:42   either have made it through the primary [TS]

01:02:45   where which point I will have won an [TS]

01:02:47   election a kind of an election you know [TS]

01:02:50   i will have won my first public vote and [TS]

01:02:54   that will confirm that people that the [TS]

01:02:59   public doesn't play by the same rules as [TS]

01:03:02   the political class and that i was able [TS]

01:03:05   to reach the public and that ultimately [TS]

01:03:08   the rules of the political class apply [TS]

01:03:12   only if you allow if you allow them to [TS]

01:03:16   or i will lose in the primary at which [TS]

01:03:20   point it proves that the political class [TS]

01:03:22   knows how knows how the game is played [TS]

01:03:24   and that is how the game is played and [TS]

01:03:27   the public does not the public makes [TS]

01:03:31   choices basis based on the political [TS]

01:03:33   class and then that will be very [TS]

01:03:38   instructive and very profound come back [TS]

01:03:48   the old thing that where you I don't [TS]

01:03:49   allow yourself to to celebrate victories [TS]

01:03:51   for more than a couple minutes [TS]

01:03:53   yeah you've already kinda night yourself [TS]

01:03:55   the joy of winning this of inhabitants [TS]

01:03:56   well kool-aid man I didn't say if I one [TS]

01:04:01   that I was going to buy myself a pair of [TS]

01:04:02   shoes if I make it through the primary [TS]

01:04:05   money get a pair of shoes and my mom [TS]

01:04:07   used to do with me clean my room again [TS]

01:04:08   Batman costume is it working [TS]

01:04:10   ru ru you feeling like you're motivated [TS]

01:04:14   to cut something out of a catalog and [TS]

01:04:15   put it up how many how many Batman [TS]

01:04:16   costume did you end up with never got it [TS]

01:04:18   couldn't keep my room clean [TS]

01:04:19   oh really OIC so it was a sliding scale [TS]

01:04:22   it was a like a [TS]

01:04:23   still see it I can still see in my head [TS]

01:04:25   we had a piece of posterboard we cut it [TS]

01:04:27   out i think there was some checking off [TS]

01:04:29   of boxes into this the perfect kind of [TS]

01:04:32   textbook way to encourage a hopelessly [TS]

01:04:35   messy and careless child to to get good [TS]

01:04:38   at equal cut it out of the Sears catalog [TS]

01:04:39   it was exactly the bat but the branded [TS]

01:04:42   Batman costume that I wanted and I [TS]

01:04:44   really I really really wanted it but [TS]

01:04:46   apparently not enough that i would clean [TS]

01:04:47   my room and how how many times did you [TS]

01:04:51   have to clean your room do you think if [TS]

01:04:52   you look back [TS]

01:04:54   how how how long would you have needed [TS]

01:04:56   to keep your room clean to my head was [TS]

01:04:58   suppose a month but it was probably more [TS]

01:05:00   like a week straight or something [TS]

01:05:02   it's just that I I never hit those goals [TS]

01:05:05   ever [TS]

01:05:06   yeah yeah yeah did I ever tell you the [TS]

01:05:09   story about the time that my mom told me [TS]

01:05:11   to clean my room and I put all my toys [TS]

01:05:13   in the closet and shut the door [TS]

01:05:14   mmm i can guess how that turned out [TS]

01:05:17   nobody ever told you the story you might [TS]

01:05:18   have tell it again [TS]

01:05:19   yeah and then she came in and she looked [TS]

01:05:20   round she was like a good job and then [TS]

01:05:22   she opened the closet and saw the toys [TS]

01:05:23   in there and she jumped in the closet [TS]

01:05:26   and jumped up and down all right i do [TS]

01:05:28   remember this all because little pieces [TS]

01:05:30   she's not a large woman must take a lot [TS]

01:05:34   of jumping well you know kids toys right [TS]

01:05:36   i mean it back in truth and oh my gosh [TS]

01:05:40   that's the worst motivations hard John [TS]

01:05:42   its ramifications ramifications [TS]

01:05:44   motivation is difficult it's difficult [TS]

01:05:46   for me to figure out it's difficult for [TS]

01:05:48   me to provide everybody gets motivated [TS]

01:05:52   by such different things [TS]

01:05:53   what are you motivated by fear [TS]

01:05:57   ya know honestly like as far as like [TS]

01:05:58   would do as far as a motivational I [TS]

01:06:00   think fear is I think that's how we have [TS]

01:06:02   no no but it's also clarity it takes a [TS]

01:06:05   certain amount of clarity it depends [TS]

01:06:07   like what i think of the stuff that i [TS]

01:06:08   like that i'm doing or do well it's just [TS]

01:06:10   like there is something nice like today [TS]

01:06:12   you know we have a podcast we will [TS]

01:06:14   record this i will edit this i will put [TS]

01:06:16   it together [TS]

01:06:17   that's a good feeling for me I like that [TS]

01:06:18   I feel very motivated to do that [TS]

01:06:20   particular kind of work because I do [TS]

01:06:22   actually really enjoy it as far as [TS]

01:06:24   motivation it'sit's hard as motivation [TS]

01:06:26   such a slippery word because it [TS]

01:06:27   encompasses so many different kinds of [TS]

01:06:29   things that that aren't really [TS]

01:06:32   motivating right it's it's more like [TS]

01:06:34   what are you running away from rather [TS]

01:06:35   like what are you running to war [TS]

01:06:37   so I don't know it's funny because I I [TS]

01:06:39   do feel like you know one way that I am [TS]

01:06:42   a simple and and fault tolerant person [TS]

01:06:48   is that I do my best when I'm feeling [TS]

01:06:50   good about what I'm doing and when I [TS]

01:06:51   feel like you know I'm succeeding and [TS]

01:06:53   things like that you know from there are [TS]

01:06:55   other people who love being down in the [TS]

01:06:57   count [TS]

01:06:57   they love you know that feeling of like [TS]

01:06:59   oh I can power through this and you know [TS]

01:07:01   i'm good at that sometimes I don't know [TS]

01:07:03   it's hard to know I did this is this is [TS]

01:07:06   a good question what motivates you [TS]

01:07:10   you're not supposed to exhale when you [TS]

01:07:14   ask but you know what motivates me [TS]

01:07:18   um I mean that's the that's what's so [TS]

01:07:22   wonderful about having done this podcast [TS]

01:07:25   now for a hundred and fifty plus [TS]

01:07:28   episodes is that it is it's one of those [TS]

01:07:31   rare things that is its own reward [TS]

01:07:36   who and what has always motivated me is [TS]

01:07:40   the is the hope that I would discover a [TS]

01:07:44   life which was its own reward and the [TS]

01:07:48   feeling that the expectation that that [TS]

01:07:51   that life should be its own reward [TS]

01:07:55   and that's why why I've had such a [TS]

01:08:01   complicated relationship with work my [TS]

01:08:03   whole life because the because i watched [TS]

01:08:08   the adults in my life really practice at [TS]

01:08:13   really practice the be the belief that [TS]

01:08:20   work was this thing that you did in [TS]

01:08:23   order to provide opportunity to provide [TS]

01:08:29   opportunities for pleasure or relaxation [TS]

01:08:31   later you know that have that yeah kinda [TS]

01:08:36   kind of a Protestant work ethic idea [TS]

01:08:38   Yeah right there there was no sense that [TS]

01:08:40   that work was its own reward that life [TS]

01:08:42   was its own reward [TS]

01:08:44   even though i'm sure that it was [TS]

01:08:46   I'm sure that the adults in in my life [TS]

01:08:50   when I was a kid were enjoying the [TS]

01:08:53   challenges of work and the teachers in [TS]

01:08:56   my school were enjoy you know where were [TS]

01:08:59   we're we're teaching us that we could go [TS]

01:09:04   to work and enjoy it but I don't [TS]

01:09:06   remember anyone in school saying you [TS]

01:09:11   know you're gonna find a job that you're [TS]

01:09:12   going to love nobody nobody would ever [TS]

01:09:15   put that anywhere near the top of the [TS]

01:09:17   list [TS]

01:09:17   I knew it was much more the way that [TS]

01:09:19   people treated being married and in [TS]

01:09:21   another decade or century which is like [TS]

01:09:23   well you need to get along with this [TS]

01:09:25   person and if things work out well [TS]

01:09:27   youyou might be kind of in love for a [TS]

01:09:29   long time but it was but I mean anybody [TS]

01:09:31   sensible would say well you know don't [TS]

01:09:32   just marry the first person you have a [TS]

01:09:34   crush on this is this is work right in [TS]

01:09:36   that sense but the e-cigarette well a [TS]

01:09:39   nap and I think I mean in a way we were [TS]

01:09:43   the first generation that didn't marry [TS]

01:09:45   the first person they had a crush on [TS]

01:09:47   right that was it that was a new ya [TS]

01:09:49   around a new thought technology for us [TS]

01:09:51   even the even the baby boomers they [TS]

01:09:55   rebelled against it but the way they [TS]

01:09:57   were taught by my mom found it doubly [TS]

01:09:59   confounding and now may I see why my mom [TS]

01:10:02   being somebody who graduated from high [TS]

01:10:03   school in 1952 I believe 5256 maybe you [TS]

01:10:10   have my 56 but anyway but she found two [TS]

01:10:12   things that now I realize why she [TS]

01:10:13   finally on the one hand she thought it [TS]

01:10:15   was so strange that that I and all of my [TS]

01:10:17   friends everybody I knew nobody knew [TS]

01:10:19   dated to me there was no such thing as [TS]

01:10:21   dating when I was in high school that [TS]

01:10:23   seemed weird and slutty to me that I [TS]

01:10:25   would be somebody who would go out and [TS]

01:10:27   like even if it was just going to the [TS]

01:10:29   skating rink I did not know anybody who [TS]

01:10:30   went on dates in the conventional cell [TS]

01:10:33   went out together as again [TS]

01:10:35   well that could be it but the funny this [TS]

01:10:37   is this is the weird irony is that for [TS]

01:10:39   me it was more like getting a girlfriend [TS]

01:10:41   or someone is getting a boyfriend or [TS]

01:10:42   whatever it was it was this like it this [TS]

01:10:45   constant yearning for stable monogamy [TS]

01:10:49   when I was in high school junior high [TS]

01:10:51   no dice there but let's just say high [TS]

01:10:53   school on the one hand like so much like [TS]

01:10:55   you know serial monogamy where you [TS]

01:10:57   nobody would date you would have a [TS]

01:10:58   boyfriend/girlfriend need break up [TS]

01:11:00   anytime you have another boyfriend [TS]

01:11:01   girlfriend and then did the normal state [TS]

01:11:03   was your either seeking that person from [TS]

01:11:05   monogamy or you're in the monogamous [TS]

01:11:07   thing [TS]

01:11:07   not everybody but i would say the vast [TS]

01:11:09   majority of people i knew that that's [TS]

01:11:11   what they wanted that's what they [TS]

01:11:12   sometimes God but at the same time I had [TS]

01:11:14   zero interest in getting married and I [TS]

01:11:16   thought that was really weird I thought [TS]

01:11:17   was very strange so my mom thought was [TS]

01:11:19   strange that i wasn't like trying to you [TS]

01:11:20   know meet more people do different [TS]

01:11:21   things you know be exposed in people [TS]

01:11:23   from different places maybe not from [TS]

01:11:24   school no interest to me like I wanted [TS]

01:11:26   that girl in my class to like me and [TS]

01:11:28   then be my girlfriend [TS]

01:11:29   whereas then of course like her [TS]

01:11:31   generation it was all about getting [TS]

01:11:33   married and nothing my mom was some kind [TS]

01:11:35   of automaton or something but i think [TS]

01:11:36   that was really expected of people was [TS]

01:11:38   that you're going to get married you're [TS]

01:11:40   going to have kids and just look at the [TS]

01:11:41   questions that anybody under 30 kids ask [TS]

01:11:43   look at the cascade of questions and I [TS]

01:11:46   really felt this in Florida big time I [TS]

01:11:48   mean first we know do you have a [TS]

01:11:49   girlfriend when you're okay are you [TS]

01:11:51   gonna get engaged [TS]

01:11:52   ok gonna get married and have a kid and [TS]

01:11:55   you can have three more kids like [TS]

01:11:56   nobody's ever satisfied with the [TS]

01:11:58   progress on becoming the person they'd [TS]

01:11:59   like you to be you're never far enough [TS]

01:12:01   along so anyway I'm just saying I my [TS]

01:12:03   eyes I see my mom's point of view now [TS]

01:12:05   and I see the the paradox of that that [TS]

01:12:07   creating all this monogamy at a time i'm [TS]

01:12:09   supposed to be exposed to all these [TS]

01:12:11   different people now and continue then [TS]

01:12:13   after high school but i never was into [TS]

01:12:15   the idea of dating it seemed like a lot [TS]

01:12:16   of overhead [TS]

01:12:17   oh my god but ended so what's your story [TS]

01:12:21   uh like you're like for example with [TS]

01:12:24   your parents like what did you if I [TS]

01:12:25   could ask where did your parents meet oh [TS]

01:12:28   you know my mom my mom was in college [TS]

01:12:32   no no you know my dad was 44 solar ya [TS]

01:12:35   right ya know my dad was already [TS]

01:12:38   divorced from his first wife and he had [TS]

01:12:41   three kids and was living in seattle and [TS]

01:12:44   was kind of a player here in the in the [TS]

01:12:48   legal world in the political world sort [TS]

01:12:51   of big man on campus right in and my mom [TS]

01:12:54   was had graduated from Ohio State and [TS]

01:13:00   was living in columbus and you are [TS]

01:13:04   living a pretty high style mad men era [TS]

01:13:08   life she worked at a television station [TS]

01:13:11   she knew a lot of people in the arts [TS]

01:13:14   world and you know when her boyfriend [TS]

01:13:17   was Jewish and so she was part of a sort [TS]

01:13:20   of Jewish a subculture in ohio which is [TS]

01:13:25   a huge you know huge subculture there at [TS]

01:13:28   that's that's sort of the way she's [TS]

01:13:31   always described its you know funnier [TS]

01:13:33   and more little racier a little more [TS]

01:13:36   artistic than your normal columbus crowd [TS]

01:13:39   and they all drove foreign sports cars [TS]

01:13:42   which in the fifties were very exotic [TS]

01:13:45   you know Morgan's and Austin Healey's [TS]

01:13:48   and that was kind of hircine and then [TS]

01:13:53   she decided that she wanted to see the [TS]

01:13:55   world and she loaded everything in her [TS]

01:13:57   53 Chevy and I'm not sure it's a 53 [TS]

01:14:04   Chevy I have a picture of it on my [TS]

01:14:05   mantel i'm pretty sure something like [TS]

01:14:06   that and she headed west to and her [TS]

01:14:12   first up was Seattle because she was [TS]

01:14:14   going to visit a friend and then she was [TS]

01:14:17   gonna head down to san francisco and [TS]

01:14:19   then all points beyond right then she's [TS]

01:14:23   going to get on a ship and go to Japan [TS]

01:14:24   and you know and around the world [TS]

01:14:27   sounds like up yeah like you know like [TS]

01:14:30   she she she was the first she was the [TS]

01:14:32   kind of the only person from her little [TS]

01:14:35   group to get out of her small town and [TS]

01:14:37   then she was leaving columbus in the [TS]

01:14:40   same way like I'm gonna go see the world [TS]

01:14:42   i'm not going to be tied down to Ohio [TS]

01:14:44   and she showed up in Seattle and her [TS]

01:14:48   friend she met up with her friend and [TS]

01:14:50   her friend was dating a guy and that guy [TS]

01:14:52   brought along his friend my dad as a [TS]

01:14:57   blind date for for this girl that was [TS]

01:15:03   coming from Ohio and they started to [TS]

01:15:07   date and my dad I think i guess i'm at a [TS]

01:15:14   certain point she became his legal [TS]

01:15:15   secretary she was working for the Alaska [TS]

01:15:17   steamship company for a while but they [TS]

01:15:20   you know they had a [TS]

01:15:22   like a courtship late fifties style my [TS]

01:15:26   dad had a Jaguar so it fit in with her [TS]

01:15:31   foreign car like culture and he was a [TS]

01:15:38   lawyer and dependable and a politician [TS]

01:15:41   and you know she describes seattle at [TS]

01:15:44   the time in the for the late fifties is [TS]

01:15:46   pretty small town and my dad knew [TS]

01:15:48   everybody and he was one of these guys [TS]

01:15:50   that you know you'd get on a boat you [TS]

01:15:52   get on a steamship and dad would just [TS]

01:15:56   sort of waltz into the bridge introduced [TS]

01:15:58   himself to the captain and pretty soon [TS]

01:16:01   you know my mom would be steering the [TS]

01:16:03   boat for her because you know dad just [TS]

01:16:06   had that so like really about you hit [TS]

01:16:07   like Ray Liotta you know walking into [TS]

01:16:09   the club [TS]

01:16:10   yeah exactly just sort of he just so you [TS]

01:16:14   know he waltzed around but also he my [TS]

01:16:17   dad you know they were on weekends they [TS]

01:16:18   would go drive around the northwest and [TS]

01:16:21   so they they saw all the you know Grand [TS]

01:16:25   Coulee Dam and all these things them as [TS]

01:16:29   part of their courtship and he was [TS]

01:16:33   drinking at the time i mean it was [TS]

01:16:34   variable one I told you I think that my [TS]

01:16:38   mom tried to watch Mad Men and she [TS]

01:16:41   couldn't watch it after a couple of [TS]

01:16:43   episodes because all she could tell she [TS]

01:16:46   could see was all the details that [TS]

01:16:47   they've gotten wrong but you know that [TS]

01:16:51   that first two seasons of mad men was [TS]

01:16:53   really the era exactly the era when my [TS]

01:16:57   mom and dad met and you know him he was [TS]

01:17:00   a successful lawyer and politician and [TS]

01:17:02   so but he was already divorced and she [TS]

01:17:06   was a very independent-minded woman she [TS]

01:17:09   was not gonna do [TS]

01:17:11   she wasn't going to do what was expected [TS]

01:17:14   of her [TS]

01:17:15   and yet even so the pressure the social [TS]

01:17:20   pressure of the sixties who was still [TS]

01:17:23   intact and it still put them together in [TS]

01:17:26   a marriage where even though my mom was [TS]

01:17:30   effectively like a [TS]

01:17:32   like a a mage level account [TS]

01:17:36   my father was in charge of the checkbook [TS]

01:17:39   and my father was somebody that you know [TS]

01:17:42   if you if you if you put him in a room [TS]

01:17:44   and you said here's a cupcake but if you [TS]

01:17:47   can wait for an hour you get two [TS]

01:17:48   cupcakes you would open the door in 30 [TS]

01:17:51   seconds and my dad would be covered in [TS]

01:17:53   cupcake frosting and that inhabited [TS]

01:17:56   stripped off all his clothes so there [TS]

01:18:00   was no you know so those the the social [TS]

01:18:04   expectations the gender roles even [TS]

01:18:07   though both of my folks were so [TS]

01:18:09   independent minded they couldn't escape [TS]

01:18:11   the the gravity of those roles in that [TS]

01:18:15   time and you know and as soon as the [TS]

01:18:18   seventies arrived and there were social [TS]

01:18:22   movements that allowed my mom to achieve [TS]

01:18:24   escape velocity like she took that route [TS]

01:18:28   as fast as she could and my dad was just [TS]

01:18:32   enough older that he never really fully [TS]

01:18:34   was able to to adapt I get the feeling [TS]

01:18:41   that this seems pretty broad but I get [TS]

01:18:43   the feeling that you know we can look at [TS]

01:18:46   the photos and we can look at the watch [TS]

01:18:48   the movies but it's I think it's [TS]

01:18:50   probably pretty hard to capture how we [TS]

01:18:54   can you know take a drink how much [TS]

01:18:55   Germany there was in the fifties just [TS]

01:18:56   how much how much people were not just [TS]

01:18:59   expected to like have a certain haircut [TS]

01:19:00   or drink a certain drink or whatever but [TS]

01:19:02   i think the part that gets left out is [TS]

01:19:04   you get that pressure from everybody [TS]

01:19:06   around you there's also constantly this [TS]

01:19:08   clock ticking like especially for a [TS]

01:19:10   woman and I i think it's easy to [TS]

01:19:12   overlook we see that the old gosh why [TS]

01:19:13   did you do that and the thing that's I [TS]

01:19:15   think sometimes difficult to articulate [TS]

01:19:17   is this sense that you're not where you [TS]

01:19:18   should be yet and it's starting to show [TS]

01:19:20   and the more that it starts to show the [TS]

01:19:23   harder it is to get where you're [TS]

01:19:24   supposed to be i know that's a pretty [TS]

01:19:26   sure that's true in venture capital [TS]

01:19:27   projects and I think that's probably [TS]

01:19:29   true for a lot of men and especially [TS]

01:19:31   women and in the fifties you know i mean [TS]

01:19:33   in my case my mom had a long story short [TS]

01:19:36   it took a long time for her to have a [TS]

01:19:38   kid took her you know 10 years of trying [TS]

01:19:40   and the idea of a woman of thirty having [TS]

01:19:42   her first baby was like the craziest [TS]

01:19:44   idea not the craziest but like it was [TS]

01:19:46   definitely pretty out there to be at [TS]

01:19:48   that advanced stage and having your [TS]

01:19:49   first child and which i think is [TS]

01:19:51   indicative of the kind of pressure [TS]

01:19:52   people felt was like even know try as [TS]

01:19:54   hard as you might you're swimming [TS]

01:19:55   against the stream there's this constant [TS]

01:19:57   pressure not only to be this way but [TS]

01:19:58   also the idea that like hey these [TS]

01:20:00   opportunities are not going to be there [TS]

01:20:01   forever you better you better get [TS]

01:20:03   yourself a new brazier put on some [TS]

01:20:04   lipstick and get out there [TS]

01:20:07   I mean I think about that every day I [TS]

01:20:09   mean I need to put on some lipstick roof [TS]

01:20:13   and get out there because i have [TS]

01:20:18   somebody said to me the other day it and [TS]

01:20:21   and it it was so arresting it was [TS]

01:20:25   another one of these young political [TS]

01:20:27   people and he was talking about you know [TS]

01:20:32   needing more diversity in the candidates [TS]

01:20:35   and and in that sense I'm very lucky [TS]

01:20:38   because i'm running in a race where it's [TS]

01:20:41   just for white guys and so I am the [TS]

01:20:45   diverse candidate but he you know he was [TS]

01:20:50   like we need more you know more gender [TS]

01:20:52   diversity more you know more racial [TS]

01:20:58   diversity and he kind of like gesture at [TS]

01:21:03   me and said and more age diversity and [TS]

01:21:09   oh my god [TS]

01:21:11   it took me a second to realize that what [TS]

01:21:14   he was saying was that i was the age of [TS]

01:21:20   a typical candidate and what we needed [TS]

01:21:24   was younger candidates I'm that man and [TS]

01:21:28   that being 35 was preferable to being 45 [TS]

01:21:34   because um because something because [TS]

01:21:40   youth is the new that youth is also a [TS]

01:21:44   thing that is discriminated against and [TS]

01:21:47   I was like it and it did it took me a [TS]

01:21:51   second to realize that at [TS]

01:21:54   46 years old that I had I had crossed a [TS]

01:21:59   threshold to people in their twenties [TS]

01:22:02   where I was just an indeterminate age I [TS]

01:22:05   was some times when I was such a good [TS]

01:22:07   way to put it it's like it's a girl it's [TS]

01:22:09   almost like with little kids where [TS]

01:22:11   you've got kids that are there you [TS]

01:22:12   consider younger consider their age big [TS]

01:22:14   kids old kids adults and old people [TS]

01:22:18   yeah it's like there's no difference [TS]

01:22:20   between states 28 and 48 right and not [TS]

01:22:25   really a to a little kid there's not to [TS]

01:22:28   a twenty-eight-year-old a [TS]

01:22:30   twenty-eight-year-old still imagines [TS]

01:22:32   that they are an eighteen-year-old but [TS]

01:22:35   that 35 and older is is just old and and [TS]

01:22:40   you know and you you you you always are [TS]

01:22:42   pushing back that curtain a little bit [TS]

01:22:45   but when you get to be 46 and you [TS]

01:22:47   realize like oh when I read in the [TS]

01:22:49   newspaper about somebody that's 50 years [TS]

01:22:51   old they're basically talking about the [TS]

01:22:53   people that were seniors in high school [TS]

01:22:55   when I was a freshman her and you know [TS]

01:22:59   and I am closer I'm closer to 60 then I [TS]

01:23:02   am 225 and yeah I that that is an act in [TS]

01:23:11   some ways an accurate assessment and [TS]

01:23:16   that and yet we and again it's the it's [TS]

01:23:20   the funny business of the the of the [TS]

01:23:25   generations because my dad's generation [TS]

01:23:29   you became an adult when you were 18 and [TS]

01:23:35   then you very very definitely joined a [TS]

01:23:40   pool of adulthood where there wasn't [TS]

01:23:43   such a thing as young adults it was you [TS]

01:23:47   know you could be just starting out but [TS]

01:23:49   if you look at pictures of of people in [TS]

01:23:52   their thirties in the nineteen thirties [TS]

01:23:55   they are trying desperately to look old [TS]

01:23:57   right right and it was really the baby [TS]

01:24:00   boomers that were the first generation [TS]

01:24:02   that made any distinction between being [TS]

01:24:05   30 and being 50 right then this but they [TS]

01:24:08   say they say that the the whole concept [TS]

01:24:11   of being a teenager was invented in [TS]

01:24:13   something like colonial times but i [TS]

01:24:15   think it's it's really feels like an [TS]

01:24:17   armchair observer it really feels like [TS]

01:24:19   the the fifties late forties early [TS]

01:24:21   fifties or when they're really caught on [TS]

01:24:23   partly because a market right but here [TS]

01:24:26   in affluent society now there was a new [TS]

01:24:28   source of spending inside the family so [TS]

01:24:30   that your cater to and they're all kinds [TS]

01:24:33   of things that were you know and also a [TS]

01:24:35   time when you could then that come on [TS]

01:24:37   your kids being a little safer by [TS]

01:24:38   participating in these certain kinds of [TS]

01:24:39   activities he didn't want to go straight [TS]

01:24:40   into the army you been in the Army and [TS]

01:24:41   you know what that was like that kind of [TS]

01:24:43   stuff right but like we so in a [TS]

01:24:46   hunter-gatherer society i am at the end [TS]

01:24:49   of my usable life my useful lifespan [TS]

01:24:52   right at 46 years old I am no longer [TS]

01:24:55   able to spend a lot of time on this is [TS]

01:24:58   crazy this is a crazy thing to get into [TS]

01:25:00   right now but I've spent a lot of time [TS]

01:25:03   in the last few days crouching in the [TS]

01:25:07   dirt looking out over a mountain valley [TS]

01:25:10   and imagining myself not in prehistoric [TS]

01:25:14   times but imagining myself now but as a [TS]

01:25:17   subsistence hunter and i have my have my [TS]

01:25:21   lady's with me on the trail and i am you [TS]

01:25:25   know and I'm meeting to keep this tribe [TS]

01:25:30   going over you know defended against [TS]

01:25:34   wild animals other humans probably give [TS]

01:25:38   find food and we know working together [TS]

01:25:40   as a tribe but with the knowledge that [TS]

01:25:41   one of us is four years old and [TS]

01:25:44   realizing that at 46 years old I am less [TS]

01:25:47   useful to this tribe that I would have [TS]

01:25:50   been at 26 years old and if this tribe [TS]

01:25:56   were were a little bit bigger if there [TS]

01:25:58   were 10 of us or 15 of us that would be [TS]

01:26:01   much better but i would still be I [TS]

01:26:03   wouldn't be I'm not so old that I would [TS]

01:26:05   be slowing us down for but you know my i [TS]

01:26:10   would not be with a spear out at the [TS]

01:26:14   leading edge [TS]

01:26:16   either against a bear or another tribe [TS]

01:26:19   you know i would i would have died i [TS]

01:26:23   have a lot more strategy i have a lot [TS]

01:26:25   more plan but I'm a lot less you know my [TS]

01:26:29   knees are bad right right and so that [TS]

01:26:34   awareness of like the the tipping point [TS]

01:26:36   at in their mid-forties where your eyes [TS]

01:26:38   go bad your your joints go bad and [TS]

01:26:40   you're like oh shit and if I if we were [TS]

01:26:43   on the Savannah you know I'm kind of i'm [TS]

01:26:47   a drag now I basically be used to bait [TS]

01:26:49   traps [TS]

01:26:50   uh-hum that so that knowledge but also [TS]

01:26:54   in the context of us kind of being the [TS]

01:26:58   first or second generation really the [TS]

01:27:00   first generation that was raised all [TS]

01:27:03   along with the idea that there wasn't [TS]

01:27:06   just a static adulthood but that you [TS]

01:27:11   weren't supposed to trust anybody under [TS]

01:27:12   30 and then 40 was the new 30 and then [TS]

01:27:16   you know 45 is the new thirty five were [TS]

01:27:18   the first people that have ever talked [TS]

01:27:20   like that and it's and it's crazy and it [TS]

01:27:23   reflects how desperately we don't know [TS]

01:27:25   how to that we took away graceful [TS]

01:27:30   adulthood and replaced it with this [TS]

01:27:33   consumerist striving youth-obsessed [TS]

01:27:37   desperate feeling all the time and now [TS]

01:27:41   kinda where the where the test case [TS]

01:27:43   again this dumb generation x that nobody [TS]

01:27:45   likes that it turned out was a lot [TS]

01:27:48   smaller than we thought and less [TS]

01:27:49   influential than we thought and we're [TS]

01:27:51   out here kind of baking in the hot Sun [TS]

01:27:54   trying to figure out like how do you be [TS]

01:27:58   45 like the yuppies did it in the [TS]

01:28:01   grossest way possible they were terrible [TS]

01:28:03   in their forties and where the next you [TS]

01:28:09   know the next ones to come along you [TS]

01:28:10   think about my dad's generation by the [TS]

01:28:12   time they're in their forties they were [TS]

01:28:13   I mean they had done so much they rot so [TS]

01:28:15   much devastation but they weren't [TS]

01:28:17   thinking about their age in the same way [TS]

01:28:23   and and they [TS]

01:28:26   shocked when their children said don't [TS]

01:28:29   trust anyone over 30 you know they were [TS]

01:28:30   horrified and now you know Here I am way [TS]

01:28:36   way over 34 when they hanging out with [TS]

01:28:41   the wrong people hanging out with the [TS]

01:28:42   wrong people when they build the AI love [TS]

01:28:44   you and me from this podcast they're [TS]

01:28:46   gonna be such boring crotchety guys [TS]

01:28:48   saggy pants i disagree i think the AI [TS]

01:28:53   that they come up with if they are is [TS]

01:28:55   not just see I think I'm if I'm i say i [TS]

01:28:57   think you might have a failure of [TS]

01:28:58   imagination here we're not talking about [TS]

01:28:59   robots that think and talk like us relay [TS]

01:29:02   I would be able to take the stuff that [TS]

01:29:04   we're not articulating well and make it [TS]

01:29:05   a lot smarter and they would be able to [TS]

01:29:07   draw connections like we're pretty good [TS]

01:29:09   at certain parts of this but we really [TS]

01:29:10   need a super smart robot that will be [TS]

01:29:12   able to go and connect all the dots [TS]

01:29:13   think what you could do with something [TS]

01:29:15   like that i love that you pronounce a [TS]

01:29:18   robot not just anything i'm doing i [TS]

01:29:20   think it's so good and it really isit's [TS]

01:29:22   it is a robot that we're building it's a [TS]

01:29:25   robot and that that's what I i don't i [TS]

01:29:29   do not want a robot i do want a robot oh [TS]

01:29:32   man like a cling clang like actually [TS]

01:29:34   like with like a body made at n stuff i [TS]

01:29:37   may be so much more into that with a [TS]

01:29:39   little funnel for a hat I don't want I [TS]

01:29:41   don't want like a like a real doll that [TS]

01:29:43   walks not interested [TS]

01:29:45   like i mentioned the real thing at all [TS]

01:29:46   like the dead rubber girl but like to [TS]

01:29:49   have an actual like nineteen fifties [TS]

01:29:51   like forties maybe thirties idea of a [TS]

01:29:53   robot that's the robot for me that we [TS]

01:29:57   actually says clink clank when he walks [TS]

01:29:58   around going Clank Clank Clank I feel [TS]

01:30:02   like my desire to not be around other [TS]

01:30:04   people that much really extends to [TS]

01:30:08   robots like if you tell them that it [TS]

01:30:11   wouldn't hurt their feelings [TS]

01:30:12   well but that's the thing it because of [TS]

01:30:14   the because of the anthropomorphic [TS]

01:30:16   sizing that I do it isn't the robots [TS]

01:30:19   feelings that I be worried about its my [TS]

01:30:22   own transference of feeling into the [TS]

01:30:25   robot the act of smirnoff problem that's [TS]

01:30:27   exactly right [TS]

01:30:29   so-so [TS]

01:30:32   so just having it in the house even if [TS]

01:30:35   it was turned off i would feel social [TS]

01:30:39   pressure to turn it on interact with it [TS]

01:30:41   hit bad feelings if you have ill [TS]

01:30:44   feelings or guilty feelings about your [TS]

01:30:45   clothing imagine imagine a computer that [TS]

01:30:48   walks [TS]

01:30:49   yeah it's an edge off imagine how bad i [TS]

01:30:51   would feel I mean even like that's why [TS]

01:30:55   I've never turned on Cirie I'll really [TS]

01:30:58   because i do not want to interact I did [TS]

01:31:01   not want to have an interaction with the [TS]

01:31:02   thing where I could disappointed its [TS]

01:31:07   ramifications [TS]

01:31:08   [Music] [TS]