Roderick on the Line

Ep. 160: "Gidgets and Gasmos"


00:00:00   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:00:01   sponsored by cards against humanity they [TS]

00:00:04   asked us not to read an ad [TS]

00:00:06   hey just enjoy the show [TS]

00:00:13   hello hey John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:17   good how are you going great that was a [TS]

00:00:21   really really fast restart you must have [TS]

00:00:23   some very recent equipment there [TS]

00:00:24   yeah well I was restarting my computer [TS]

00:00:27   and so I had to go get some herbal ciao [TS]

00:00:32   from the grocery store across the street [TS]

00:00:35   that stocks trouble child to feed all [TS]

00:00:37   the gerbils inside my now completely our [TS]

00:00:42   cake computer device which still looks [TS]

00:00:46   very modern [TS]

00:00:47   mm that's what's deceptive about it [TS]

00:00:48   right okay students the design was so [TS]

00:00:52   ahead of its time that it's still up to [TS]

00:00:53   me at least looks very very modern [TS]

00:00:56   I have two beloved Apple devices at my [TS]

00:00:59   house right now that it won't turn on at [TS]

00:01:00   all and it looks like something from [TS]

00:01:02   Star Trek there's some modern oh they're [TS]

00:01:04   very modern I my extremely modern phone [TS]

00:01:07   has has been engaging in conversation [TS]

00:01:12   recently about how my icloud is almost [TS]

00:01:18   full [TS]

00:01:19   oh yeah my wife wakes up to that [TS]

00:01:21   literally every morning and it's [TS]

00:01:23   interesting when I think about it [TS]

00:01:25   because of course the I mean how can a [TS]

00:01:28   cloud be full [TS]

00:01:29   alright miss you know i mean when i [TS]

00:01:32   think about and I think about it got [TS]

00:01:34   cloud can't be full [TS]

00:01:35   I mean it rains when it when it gets [TS]

00:01:37   full cloud rains clouds can get very [TS]

00:01:41   very big before you would describe them [TS]

00:01:43   as full they can retain a lot of matter [TS]

00:01:45   but my phone insists that it's time for [TS]

00:01:49   me to either upgrade to a to it to a [TS]

00:01:54   plan of the bigger cloud basically it's [TS]

00:01:57   saying attach some additional heels to [TS]

00:02:01   your neck or the alternative is go to [TS]

00:02:06   apple / menu dot a details that's the [TS]

00:02:11   point that it going / fields / but going [TS]

00:02:14   flat heels and they'll walk you through [TS]

00:02:17   a very easy process where you can manage [TS]

00:02:20   your content in the sense that each app [TS]

00:02:24   and [TS]

00:02:26   favorable has a content management [TS]

00:02:29   capability which enables you to not know [TS]

00:02:32   at all anything about how much space [TS]

00:02:37   things are using or how that is part of [TS]

00:02:40   how they're operating system adjudicates [TS]

00:02:44   what they do what they do is they show [TS]

00:02:46   you some bars some colored bars that [TS]

00:02:49   indicate where that what what your how [TS]

00:02:52   full your cloud is yeah the biggest one [TS]

00:02:56   of those bars is something you can do [TS]

00:02:58   nothing about nor can you understand it [TS]

00:03:01   and then the other bars are all [TS]

00:03:04   similarly opaque in the the bar called [TS]

00:03:06   other other right and then but what's [TS]

00:03:09   wonderful is that they say like oh if [TS]

00:03:10   you'd like to manage your content and [TS]

00:03:12   which is what i would actually prefer to [TS]

00:03:13   do i would prefer to manage my content [TS]

00:03:16   who would prefer to manage was on the [TS]

00:03:18   phone and not have the phone full of [TS]

00:03:22   secret contracts not have it full of [TS]

00:03:25   user and user agreements that give away [TS]

00:03:28   all of my information to a chelsea [TS]

00:03:32   manning i would prefer to just be able [TS]

00:03:35   to go in there and see very clearly [TS]

00:03:37   what's there and call the things i do [TS]

00:03:40   not want and they present it as though [TS]

00:03:43   that is the possible that is it not only [TS]

00:03:45   a possibility but it's just a simple [TS]

00:03:47   simple process you just follow the [TS]

00:03:48   little arrow from you no applecare down [TS]

00:03:54   to apple don't care [TS]

00:03:56   snap and uh and yet uh i would need a [TS]

00:04:03   computer maths degree from a community [TS]

00:04:06   Comic technically it's a certificate [TS]

00:04:08   that certificate i would need a [TS]

00:04:10   certification that you can get on nights [TS]

00:04:12   and weekends while working a year your [TS]

00:04:16   overnight shift at denny's and then i [TS]

00:04:19   would also need this is the key [TS]

00:04:21   this is the this is the thing that that [TS]

00:04:24   they don't tell you i would need one [TS]

00:04:25   year of free time that I had nothing [TS]

00:04:28   better to do than to sit and figure out [TS]

00:04:31   how to freaking delete that what i can [TS]

00:04:34   delete from my phone so so in summary it [TS]

00:04:38   just works [TS]

00:04:39   and what's amazing is it looks very very [TS]

00:04:43   modern and everything every modern [TS]

00:04:45   message my wife wakes up to every day [TS]

00:04:47   since you guys the cloud is full of [TS]

00:04:49   Congress was so satisfying because it's [TS]

00:04:51   so just that the fonts were chosen [TS]

00:04:54   various the chamfered edges and not the [TS]

00:04:56   hand weight even the hand feel ya it [TS]

00:04:59   snaps to a grid and it [TS]

00:05:01   yeah that's true yeah but any kin any [TS]

00:05:04   case so I'm very excited and you know [TS]

00:05:06   and what's funny is that you just you [TS]

00:05:08   feel you and I have you Knife resist [TS]

00:05:11   resignation all the time right [TS]

00:05:14   why did i do i do not like to make [TS]

00:05:16   decisions from a place of resignation [TS]

00:05:18   I know that you don't either i prefer [TS]

00:05:21   not to lie i liked I'd like to [TS]

00:05:23   understand what I'm resigning to and NY [TS]

00:05:26   right and this entire meal based economy [TS]

00:05:29   is an economy predicated on resignation [TS]

00:05:34   we just we give them the like the [TS]

00:05:39   appearance of a choice where one of the [TS]

00:05:42   choices is non-functioning and the other [TS]

00:05:46   choice we just keep saying like it's so [TS]

00:05:48   simple all you have to do is just [TS]

00:05:49   upgrade it just paid just pits start [TS]

00:05:52   paying in on a monthly basis [TS]

00:05:54   uh-huh or of course there's this very [TS]

00:05:56   simple other direction you could go [TS]

00:05:57   which and which is a which is a trap [TS]

00:05:59   Street at every turn like dead end dead [TS]

00:06:02   end dead end and it all just redirects [TS]

00:06:05   you back like that scene in animal house [TS]

00:06:07   hey welcome to the frat party you know [TS]

00:06:09   have you met Mohamed and I man and so so [TS]

00:06:16   and so you get back to this thing and [TS]

00:06:18   eventually your phone stops working [TS]

00:06:20   computer stops working and you [TS]

00:06:23   resignedly pay for the thick just that [TS]

00:06:27   you just pay for the hope that it will [TS]

00:06:28   animals that a bigger cloud will get you [TS]

00:06:32   back in the game [TS]

00:06:33   uh-huh and i just cannot i just i see [TS]

00:06:36   that he'll and it's you know it's funny [TS]

00:06:38   like eels are unpleasant-looking but [TS]

00:06:40   this girl has a kind of like cheeky [TS]

00:06:43   smile he just wants to attach himself [TS]

00:06:45   this Remora wants to attach himself to [TS]

00:06:47   my neck vein [TS]

00:06:49   for some reason it reminds me a little [TS]

00:06:51   bit of I'm not the one of the best [TS]

00:06:53   example of this is but it's like how [TS]

00:06:55   they put ATMs in casinos you know where [TS]

00:07:00   you can go and you can get like special [TS]

00:07:02   ATMs because in addition to being very [TS]

00:07:03   costly ATMs you can get like cash [TS]

00:07:05   advances and stuff like that and you [TS]

00:07:08   know when you're in the heaviness of [TS]

00:07:10   gambling it's not like you're making a [TS]

00:07:14   note of every 100 or 200 or 500 dollars [TS]

00:07:17   that you're taking out you know what I [TS]

00:07:18   mean it isn't you're not really keeping [TS]

00:07:20   track of that but it feels like it feels [TS]

00:07:22   sustaining to be able to keep gambling [TS]

00:07:24   i'm not much of a gambler but I've seen [TS]

00:07:26   it and that's the thing here with you [TS]

00:07:28   with the eels that you're describing is [TS]

00:07:29   that is a solution is presented in the [TS]

00:07:32   form vanille just just agree to attach [TS]

00:07:35   this to somewhere anywhere anyway it's [TS]

00:07:37   convenient for you where you can get [TS]

00:07:38   blood and we're pretty sure everything [TS]

00:07:40   will be fine [TS]

00:07:41   do you know what I have a lot of blood [TS]

00:07:43   now I'm carrying an eel and still not [TS]

00:07:45   working with almost no problem at all [TS]

00:07:46   was given another he'll there's another [TS]

00:07:48   ill but the thing is these eagles are [TS]

00:07:50   small they're losing people the [TS]

00:07:53   listeners imagining and yelling [TS]

00:07:54   fantastical feel like something [TS]

00:07:57   something like like a Grimm brothers [TS]

00:07:58   heal because these are not didn't know [TS]

00:08:00   this is more like more like [TS]

00:08:01   nightcrawlers yeah just little guys [TS]

00:08:03   there little heels and and the thing you [TS]

00:08:05   know they're like I would like I [TS]

00:08:07   hesitate to call them leeches because [TS]

00:08:09   leeches have an ugly it's only were [TS]

00:08:11   really pejorative from a different time [TS]

00:08:13   term that's right but and I think they [TS]

00:08:15   are more properly Remora but uh but yeah [TS]

00:08:21   it's it my resistance to it is not to [TS]

00:08:23   any one particular seal it is to the [TS]

00:08:27   idea of having heels on me and if you [TS]

00:08:31   put one even if you make them thinner [TS]

00:08:33   and have the battery last longer and [TS]

00:08:34   steal even if that he looks like [TS]

00:08:37   something out of a kind of a like a like [TS]

00:08:39   17 deleted minutes from 2001 a Space [TS]

00:08:43   Odyssey even if it is a Kubrick and [TS]

00:08:46   he'll I do not want it on me and I think [TS]

00:08:51   this stems from a time when I was on [TS]

00:08:53   outward bound and we we had been [TS]

00:08:57   paddling our canoes for several weeks [TS]

00:09:00   in that in the boundary waters canoe [TS]

00:09:02   area of northern Minnesota and southern [TS]

00:09:05   canada ontario I think and we hate each [TS]

00:09:12   other [TS]

00:09:13   everyone everyone on that trip I was put [TS]

00:09:16   into a group of much bigger boys older [TS]

00:09:19   boys who were all sent there by their [TS]

00:09:22   very the their various like juvenile [TS]

00:09:27   detention facilities in their respective [TS]

00:09:29   towns outward-bound can be a form of [TS]

00:09:31   cutting trail right it can be a place [TS]

00:09:33   for some people get straightened out [TS]

00:09:34   yeah and there were there were lots of [TS]

00:09:36   people like there were lots of groups in [TS]

00:09:38   my when I arrived at our bound you know [TS]

00:09:41   there are hundreds of kids there and [TS]

00:09:42   they all are separated into different [TS]

00:09:44   kind of candy who different squads and [TS]

00:09:49   there were squads that were coed where [TS]

00:09:52   where they were we would we would [TS]

00:09:54   sometimes encounter them you know when [TS]

00:09:56   you're when you're out in the it in the [TS]

00:09:59   Boundary Waters area there are some [TS]

00:10:00   chokepoints kind of where the where one [TS]

00:10:02   Lake feeds into another and even if [TS]

00:10:04   you're out there for three weeks like [TS]

00:10:06   you're going to run into some other [TS]

00:10:07   people just because he you know there's [TS]

00:10:10   these waterfalls or whatever and we [TS]

00:10:13   would encounter these other groups and [TS]

00:10:15   they were they were like they would [TS]

00:10:16   canoe by a singing like they were [TS]

00:10:19   singing their song or whatever boys and [TS]

00:10:22   girls like a out camping and learning [TS]

00:10:26   skills and that sounds like summer camp [TS]

00:10:28   yeah and my group were all they were [TS]

00:10:32   like we were 12 12 us maybe 10 total [TS]

00:10:38   bullies and felons kids with like knives [TS]

00:10:42   in their boots and then me and they put [TS]

00:10:46   me in that group because i was big-sized [TS]

00:10:50   and also because i think i was sent my [TS]

00:10:53   folks set that me there to straighten me [TS]

00:10:56   out but I was not like compared to the [TS]

00:11:01   kid from Baltimore like the degree to [TS]

00:11:05   which I was on the wrong path in life [TS]

00:11:08   was not anywhere close to the you know I [TS]

00:11:12   was not living in a world [TS]

00:11:13   where I was smoking cigarettes throwing [TS]

00:11:15   knives and holding other kids heads [TS]

00:11:19   under the water right I was just I was [TS]

00:11:21   just sulking and sulking at least in and [TS]

00:11:27   me in my culture was like as bad as as [TS]

00:11:30   as being a violent teen perpetrator so [TS]

00:11:34   it was more like you are a pain in the [TS]

00:11:36   ass on the wrong path rather than [TS]

00:11:38   actually dangerous [TS]

00:11:39   yeah i was a pain in the ass and so they [TS]

00:11:41   sent me to this and I don't know what [TS]

00:11:42   box they checked where they were like [TS]

00:11:44   you know send him send him with the [TS]

00:11:47   group that that is like a basically [TS]

00:11:52   penal but i was i was in the airport in [TS]

00:11:56   duluth minnesota and a kid that ended up [TS]

00:12:00   being in my squad sat down next to me [TS]

00:12:04   and he was there with a corrections [TS]

00:12:06   officer who was escorting him to our [TS]

00:12:11   bound and I was like you know I read too [TS]

00:12:16   many Archie comics or something you know [TS]

00:12:17   that was that was my crime but uh but [TS]

00:12:21   anyway so we had several weeks in or [TS]

00:12:24   however many weeks in at right at the [TS]

00:12:26   point where we were living on brown [TS]

00:12:28   sugar and butter because all the other [TS]

00:12:29   kids had all the bigger kids had stolen [TS]

00:12:31   all the food we arrived at a little tiny [TS]

00:12:35   we were there canoeing through this [TS]

00:12:37   slow-moving river and the river had a [TS]

00:12:42   drop like a like a 10 foot waterfall and [TS]

00:12:46   we we saw in time we can pull their [TS]

00:12:48   canoes over to the side and portage them [TS]

00:12:49   around and then it was incredibly hot [TS]

00:12:53   and humid and he was this beautiful [TS]

00:12:54   little waterfall kind of undiscovered [TS]

00:12:56   waterfall out in the middle of Canada [TS]

00:12:59   and we took off our clothes and jumped [TS]

00:13:02   in it was like one of those few moments [TS]

00:13:05   on this whole long trip where there was [TS]

00:13:08   any feeling of camaraderie no one was [TS]

00:13:10   trying to kill anyone else it was like [TS]

00:13:13   everybody was so happy to have found [TS]

00:13:15   this little place and you can you could [TS]

00:13:17   duck under the waterfall and and pop up [TS]

00:13:19   and breathe and their little there's a [TS]

00:13:21   little bubble there and it was just like [TS]

00:13:23   a perfect [TS]

00:13:24   moment one of the like three times on [TS]

00:13:28   that whole trip where I didn't fear for [TS]

00:13:30   my life and then the first kid gets out [TS]

00:13:32   of the pond and the rest of us who are [TS]

00:13:36   in the water can see that he is covered [TS]

00:13:38   with leeches leeches that are the size [TS]

00:13:42   of coke bottles of god and he doesn't [TS]

00:13:46   see it because he's just climbing out [TS]

00:13:47   and like and we're all like oh you know [TS]

00:13:49   like oh no and then also oh shit they're [TS]

00:13:52   those leeches are all over us too and so [TS]

00:13:56   we you know we all climbed out of there [TS]

00:13:59   and had to head to it in that feeling in [TS]

00:14:03   that state of complete panic figure out [TS]

00:14:07   how to get the leeches off you know with [TS]

00:14:10   somebody had to go find a lighter and [TS]

00:14:12   and go through this whole terrible [TS]

00:14:15   process and you know they were inside of [TS]

00:14:16   our shorts and and so I have this leech [TS]

00:14:21   this terrible each memory where every [TS]

00:14:26   time my phone offers me an opportunity [TS]

00:14:29   to make my cloud bigger I feel like [TS]

00:14:33   there are leeches in my shorts and I [TS]

00:14:37   can't get it right you get triggered I [TS]

00:14:40   can never that's exactly right i can [TS]

00:14:41   never shake that feeling and then all of [TS]

00:14:43   a sudden I'm right back like sleeping in [TS]

00:14:45   a tent with a kid that's trying to kill [TS]

00:14:46   me and it's it spits I mean I wouldn't [TS]

00:14:51   call it PTSD but it is a I do have some [TS]

00:14:54   strong feelings [TS]

00:14:55   uh-huh that's a hell of a story [TS]

00:14:58   well that's a horrible or and while you [TS]

00:15:01   were talking about just looking at was [TS]

00:15:02   just wondering like it is in order for [TS]

00:15:04   our bound to work it has to be hard or [TS]

00:15:06   different be difficult on some level [TS]

00:15:08   maybe not in the way that you're [TS]

00:15:10   describing but like I'm just wondering [TS]

00:15:11   like how often people just get injured [TS]

00:15:13   or died doing it just seems like there [TS]

00:15:14   must be horrible injuries whether or not [TS]

00:15:16   it's from a felon with a knife in his [TS]

00:15:17   boot it seems like people must die doing [TS]

00:15:19   outbound it's very it can be very hard [TS]

00:15:22   but i think that you know I think what [TS]

00:15:24   ends up happening is you get really [TS]

00:15:25   qualified guides and counselors and [TS]

00:15:30   about but there's a lot of variation [TS]

00:15:33   there right and so [TS]

00:15:35   so in our case our two guides were when [TS]

00:15:39   you at first at first blush you think [TS]

00:15:42   like you know wow we we got the we got [TS]

00:15:45   the we lucked out here because Mike our [TS]

00:15:48   guide had hair down the middle of his [TS]

00:15:50   back a long beard and his co guide was a [TS]

00:15:53   woman that was like really strong and [TS]

00:15:56   and and had a actually had a flattop [TS]

00:16:01   haircut and this is 1983 I mean it was [TS]

00:16:04   well it was really hard [TS]

00:16:06   they were really hardcore outdoor [TS]

00:16:08   superstars who could live off of moss [TS]

00:16:14   and you know had that basically lived [TS]

00:16:17   out out of doors for a long long time [TS]

00:16:20   and we're very very capable but what [TS]

00:16:23   they were not was youth guidance [TS]

00:16:27   counselors or violence counselors and so [TS]

00:16:32   their attitudes about all of the [TS]

00:16:34   interpersonal shit going on between the [TS]

00:16:36   kids was just like I mean they had no [TS]

00:16:40   way to really they they did not counsel [TS]

00:16:46   us and they had no way to impose [TS]

00:16:47   discipline so they would say alright [TS]

00:16:49   everybody you know here we are like [TS]

00:16:51   unpack your tents and set them up and [TS]

00:16:54   let's get a fire going and and start [TS]

00:16:56   cooking dinner and like four kids would [TS]

00:16:58   be like no fuck you and you can't you [TS]

00:17:02   can't like you know sent to detention [TS]

00:17:04   yeah right i mean we're already out [TS]

00:17:06   where all right you can't exclude them [TS]

00:17:09   from the group at that point you can't [TS]

00:17:10   refuse to feed them and so because and [TS]

00:17:13   the thing is they that at a certain [TS]

00:17:16   point we got far enough out that none of [TS]

00:17:18   these kids could escape just because if [TS]

00:17:21   they left the group they would die in [TS]

00:17:23   the wilderness so we were that we were [TS]

00:17:25   we were bound together but that that [TS]

00:17:30   tipping point where that I think that [TS]

00:17:34   our bound works toward where you feel [TS]

00:17:37   that we're that-that-that-that back [TS]

00:17:44   a binding starts to feel like a family [TS]

00:17:49   or something like you are live here [TS]

00:17:51   really depending on one another and that [TS]

00:17:53   that interdependence becomes a thing [TS]

00:17:56   that you treasure and and that just [TS]

00:17:58   never took root it was weeks and weeks [TS]

00:18:03   of like these kids just just petulant [TS]

00:18:09   and stealing and refusing and fighting [TS]

00:18:13   and I and I was such a nerd that I that [TS]

00:18:17   I really wanted to have the [TS]

00:18:19   transformative experience right i'd read [TS]

00:18:21   the literature i was like i'm gonna come [TS]

00:18:23   out of this you know this is going to be [TS]

00:18:25   the thing that makes me man you know [TS]

00:18:27   even even as I was saying like I hate I [TS]

00:18:30   hate my parents and being forced to do [TS]

00:18:32   this there was that other side of me [TS]

00:18:34   that was like I'm ready to embrace the [TS]

00:18:38   transformative experience i'm ready to [TS]

00:18:40   survive be a survivalist and and you [TS]

00:18:44   know at every turn I was just sort of [TS]

00:18:47   pushed because i was younger than they [TS]

00:18:49   were I was this I was big but I was I [TS]

00:18:51   was two years younger than every other [TS]

00:18:53   kit and they just push my face in the [TS]

00:18:55   dirt and just you know take my food out [TS]

00:18:59   of my hand and and to dare me to do [TS]

00:19:03   something about it [TS]

00:19:04   I sense and how Halloween along route [TS]

00:19:06   there Oh weeks and weeks i mean really [TS]

00:19:08   you know is an intensive program and i [TS]

00:19:12   think that i think the guidance [TS]

00:19:14   counselors were our counselors I mean [TS]

00:19:16   our guides were trying to that you know [TS]

00:19:22   they were operating on the assumption [TS]

00:19:23   that that this couldn't last forever [TS]

00:19:25   eventually this Lord of the Flies stuff [TS]

00:19:27   would would would mutate into brotherly [TS]

00:19:33   love but it never did and I don't know [TS]

00:19:38   if we were still out there together [TS]

00:19:39   20-30 years later whether there would [TS]

00:19:43   have ever been you know I think I think [TS]

00:19:46   that was a classic group of kids that [TS]

00:19:48   left to their own devices would have [TS]

00:19:51   starved to death and died of exposure [TS]

00:19:53   rather than ever [TS]

00:19:56   band together to do something you know [TS]

00:19:58   they wouldn't ya willing and willfully [TS]

00:20:01   done it [TS]

00:20:02   that's what makes you think that the [TS]

00:20:03   kind of guides that they have are [TS]

00:20:06   obviously they have to experience with [TS]

00:20:07   you know a variety of challenges and all [TS]

00:20:11   being outdoors for a long time you know [TS]

00:20:12   outdoorsy people like it really seems [TS]

00:20:15   like a irresponsible to have people who [TS]

00:20:18   are able to almost like a drill team [TS]

00:20:21   drill drill sergeant type but somebody [TS]

00:20:23   who really knows how to get inside the [TS]

00:20:24   head [TS]

00:20:25   I mean just just because it really only [TS]

00:20:27   takes one person going off the off the [TS]

00:20:30   rails out there to really in danger a [TS]

00:20:31   lot of people [TS]

00:20:32   yeah it seems like not intervening at me [TS]

00:20:35   know it sounds like that wasn't a [TS]

00:20:37   strategy [TS]

00:20:38   it was just like that's what they were [TS]

00:20:40   capable of yeah exactly and that was the [TS]

00:20:42   that was the thing when I when we saw [TS]

00:20:45   that other group of of kids [TS]

00:20:49   paddle paddle your paddle past us at a [TS]

00:20:54   at an intersection of two lakes you know [TS]

00:20:56   and they were headed this way and we [TS]

00:20:58   were headed that way and they were [TS]

00:20:59   singing at up until that point I had I [TS]

00:21:05   felt like through those weeks that this [TS]

00:21:09   was the experience that everyone was [TS]

00:21:10   having and so this must be what outward [TS]

00:21:14   bound is and this must be what they must [TS]

00:21:17   do this on purpose and you come out the [TS]

00:21:19   other side and it's like you went to [TS]

00:21:22   it's like you want to like here at Camp [TS]

00:21:25   your camp northstar anything like all [TS]

00:21:28   the all the rich kids are over there [TS]

00:21:29   Yeah right right i mean you know I felt [TS]

00:21:32   like it it's like going to it's like [TS]

00:21:36   going to jail except there are also [TS]

00:21:38   mosquito bites but then they should be [TS]

00:21:41   they should put that right on the [TS]

00:21:42   brochure but then these other kids were [TS]

00:21:44   having so much fun I realized that this [TS]

00:21:46   wasn't the experience of of all of [TS]

00:21:49   everybody that was doing this it was [TS]

00:21:50   just what was happening to us and that [TS]

00:21:54   was the thing that made me you know that [TS]

00:21:56   was maybe my first experience with that [TS]

00:22:00   feeling of like I still have 11 more [TS]

00:22:04   days that I have to survive [TS]

00:22:06   and I don't I cannot look 11 days into [TS]

00:22:13   the future because I will I'll panic and [TS]

00:22:16   a and i'll be paralyzed i have to just [TS]

00:22:20   you know do what I'm doing right now [TS]

00:22:23   get get to the end of today make it [TS]

00:22:26   asleep and then you know tomorrow is a [TS]

00:22:29   new day but that that sense of like I [TS]

00:22:32   mean when you're 13 11 days might as [TS]

00:22:37   well be a million days over and that you [TS]

00:22:40   know and when i was when i was walking [TS]

00:22:42   across Europe obviously I had a much [TS]

00:22:45   bigger problem of like I still have [TS]

00:22:49   three and a half months of this to do [TS]

00:22:51   and uh huh so I just have to keep my you [TS]

00:22:56   know keep my head down and put one foot [TS]

00:22:58   in front of the other make that walk and [TS]

00:23:01   so many of your other like self-imposed [TS]

00:23:02   survival games seem it i had not heard [TS]

00:23:07   you're our bound story so that I look at [TS]

00:23:09   those things in a new way now because [TS]

00:23:11   like you knew what it was like to be out [TS]

00:23:13   there feeling desperate you put yourself [TS]

00:23:16   in that situation many times after that [TS]

00:23:18   yeah and I wonder whether or not that [TS]

00:23:21   outward bound thing kind of set it cast [TS]

00:23:25   the die a little bit and if i had if I'd [TS]

00:23:31   gone to that and it had a a merry old [TS]

00:23:35   time whether i'd have a different [TS]

00:23:37   relationship to the sort of the [TS]

00:23:41   survivalist um adventures that I play uh [TS]

00:23:46   huh you know I don't I honestly don't [TS]

00:23:48   know and the thing is like it you know i [TS]

00:23:49   mean people who've been to our bound [TS]

00:23:52   no one it's not like we sit and and and [TS]

00:23:57   having counter sessions about our [TS]

00:23:59   experience but i think a lot of people [TS]

00:24:00   have wonderful experiences that outward [TS]

00:24:02   bound and and so and you know obviously [TS]

00:24:08   that was that was decades ago when i [TS]

00:24:10   went so and and i and i still am glad [TS]

00:24:13   that I experienced it but it was [TS]

00:24:18   you know it was an example of of like [TS]

00:24:24   what happens when you put your kid [TS]

00:24:29   what would he try to you try to modify [TS]

00:24:31   your kid by putting them through a very [TS]

00:24:34   grueling experience rather than modify [TS]

00:24:37   your kid rather than a not trying to [TS]

00:24:39   modify your kid or be modify your kid by [TS]

00:24:42   putting them in a like a panic trying to [TS]

00:24:47   find a place where they can bloom that's [TS]

00:24:49   that's what we actually went really [TS]

00:24:51   thinking about right now is that down [TS]

00:24:53   you know even as young as our kids are I [TS]

00:24:57   I feel like we can probably both awesome [TS]

00:24:58   holiday I'll speak for myself I can [TS]

00:25:00   really see how you know what matters is [TS]

00:25:03   the accumulation of what happened every [TS]

00:25:05   day what happened yesterday what [TS]

00:25:07   happened yesterday what happened like it [TS]

00:25:08   that it's it's not so different from [TS]

00:25:10   this from like the difference between [TS]

00:25:12   like when did somebody get addicted to [TS]

00:25:14   cigarettes was the first time i heard [TS]

00:25:15   about cigarettes now was it the first [TS]

00:25:17   cigarette they had probably not maybe [TS]

00:25:19   with crack but not so much with smoking [TS]

00:25:21   was it after the first pack now [TS]

00:25:23   it was sometime between the first back [TS]

00:25:24   in the day they died they got addicted [TS]

00:25:26   and it's very difficult to pick out one [TS]

00:25:27   day but you can you know at some point [TS]

00:25:30   you can definitely say it's gonna be [TS]

00:25:31   harder than not at this point to stop [TS]

00:25:33   smoking just as one example and you know [TS]

00:25:36   what sending somebody I don't know we're [TS]

00:25:38   bound make that go away possibly it's [TS]

00:25:40   just that we are the accumulation of so [TS]

00:25:42   many little micro experiences micro [TS]

00:25:44   decisions are you know little tiny [TS]

00:25:46   things and it's I get some reason i [TS]

00:25:48   mention here is I wonder you know it's [TS]

00:25:51   it's kind of amazing anything ever works [TS]

00:25:53   for something like that because you take [TS]

00:25:55   somebody who's like could not be any way [TS]

00:25:58   other than how they are in some ways [TS]

00:26:00   good or bad I mean it's nice to think [TS]

00:26:02   like oh yeah you have raised a good kid [TS]

00:26:04   or this is a good person or you know [TS]

00:26:05   this is the straight a kid or whatever [TS]

00:26:07   but the thing is you are whatever you [TS]

00:26:08   are and you so are whatever you are and [TS]

00:26:11   it's amazing to think that any kind of [TS]

00:26:13   cold water therapy like that works out [TS]

00:26:17   at all unless it's really tuned to like [TS]

00:26:20   for example you know i guess i can think [TS]

00:26:22   of some kind of like I don't feel good [TS]

00:26:25   TV show idea of like a kid who's [TS]

00:26:26   actually very independent some kind of [TS]

00:26:28   Captain Kirk character who's having [TS]

00:26:29   trouble fitting in [TS]

00:26:30   school and discovers they have [TS]

00:26:32   leadership skills wants to put to a [TS]

00:26:33   challenge [TS]

00:26:34   yeah but I mean how do you know what's [TS]

00:26:36   gonna be right for somebody how do you [TS]

00:26:37   know whether that's just gonna make them [TS]

00:26:39   horribly bitter and cover with leeches [TS]

00:26:41   yeah yeah well and I think that our [TS]

00:26:44   bound what did talk a lot about a [TS]

00:26:46   leadership but I was 13 in a group of 15 [TS]

00:26:50   year olds and I was never going to be [TS]

00:26:52   accepted as a leader by them and when I [TS]

00:26:55   would you know what i would say like a [TS]

00:26:56   everybody can't we just like stopped [TS]

00:26:58   fighting for a minute and try and get [TS]

00:26:59   this fire built up what that would do is [TS]

00:27:03   it would turn their attention back to me [TS]

00:27:05   for just long enough for everybody to [TS]

00:27:10   agree that the thing to do right now is [TS]

00:27:11   to throw rocks at John like whatever [TS]

00:27:13   their other fighting was you know if i [TS]

00:27:15   am going to set that aside to just pass [TS]

00:27:18   on you [TS]

00:27:18   yeah they would all band together to [TS]

00:27:19   destroy somebody if that person stuck [TS]

00:27:24   their head up like there was a Jewish [TS]

00:27:25   kid from salt lake city and like the [TS]

00:27:30   first hour of the first day the other [TS]

00:27:33   kids agreed that his name was bagel you [TS]

00:27:35   know and but he was also from salt lake [TS]

00:27:39   so that confused them a lot but like you [TS]

00:27:44   know imagine imagine being called bagel [TS]

00:27:47   for a month and he was you know he was [TS]

00:27:53   sent there for some kind of juvenile a [TS]

00:27:55   reformation to but he he wasn't violent [TS]

00:28:01   but the thing was he knew that he [TS]

00:28:04   couldn't really align himself with me [TS]

00:28:06   either because if he applied himself [TS]

00:28:08   with me like I was the one I was the [TS]

00:28:11   weakest so he needed to when when the [TS]

00:28:14   time came to that they were dumping on [TS]

00:28:17   me he needed to join in that to ya I [TS]

00:28:20   mean it sounds like basic seventh-grade [TS]

00:28:22   kind of stuff yeah right and that [TS]

00:28:24   because all he was hoping was that they [TS]

00:28:25   wouldn't turn their attention on him so [TS]

00:28:28   i mean the the and and i look at it when [TS]

00:28:33   I when I you know I spent a lot of time [TS]

00:28:34   looking at the criminal justice system [TS]

00:28:36   and the I this cold water therapy thing [TS]

00:28:39   where you bust some kid for selling pot [TS]

00:28:44   and instead of slapping his hand and [TS]

00:28:48   send him home to his mother because he's [TS]

00:28:50   a black kid you put him in jail we put [TS]

00:28:53   him in juvenile detention and then it [TS]

00:28:56   gets out and his next crime is just that [TS]

00:28:59   he didn't show up for his meeting right [TS]

00:29:03   and so then that's a different kind of [TS]

00:29:05   each yeah then like people have to pay [TS]

00:29:07   them all those fines and all those fees [TS]

00:29:09   for things those are just leeches [TS]

00:29:10   ligious that's right and so then you can [TS]

00:29:13   eat then he gets a fine because he [TS]

00:29:15   didn't show up for his meeting and then [TS]

00:29:16   he doesn't pay the fine and then it's [TS]

00:29:17   you know that's a serious problem [TS]

00:29:21   because now he's defaulting and so [TS]

00:29:23   that's another charge and pretty soon [TS]

00:29:25   you get somebody who never did anything [TS]

00:29:29   you know their initial crime was just I [TS]

00:29:31   mean when I think about the number of [TS]

00:29:33   people in the United States right now [TS]

00:29:34   who are in jail for pot yeah and we are [TS]

00:29:38   on the verge of legalizing pot [TS]

00:29:41   nationwide it's certainly legal here [TS]

00:29:44   there are there are people standing in [TS]

00:29:47   front of the jail smoking legal pot [TS]

00:29:50   while people inside the jail who were [TS]

00:29:53   sent to jail for pot look out the [TS]

00:29:55   windows at them and you know and like [TS]

00:30:00   went to jail for pot and then when they [TS]

00:30:03   got out failed to report to their parole [TS]

00:30:06   officer and went to jail for a parole [TS]

00:30:07   violation and you know in the end up in [TS]

00:30:10   jail in jail in jail in jail and they [TS]

00:30:12   get out of jail and they can't find a [TS]

00:30:13   job because they have a jail record and [TS]

00:30:17   all for nothing and it's and it's and [TS]

00:30:20   it's based on this idea that like [TS]

00:30:23   sending somebody to jail is going to see [TS]

00:30:25   that first time is going to straighten [TS]

00:30:27   him up and it's such a faulty notion [TS]

00:30:32   that's based in in the Calvinists that [TS]

00:30:38   in that strange Calvinism thats that's [TS]

00:30:41   buried a hundred feet deep in the [TS]

00:30:44   American psyche largely largely [TS]

00:30:46   unexamined place-- yeah but there's but [TS]

00:30:48   the the weekend all again she's right [TS]

00:30:50   that there is this that they're weak i [TS]

00:30:52   think we can all agree that this person [TS]

00:30:54   has some kind of ill humors [TS]

00:30:56   that need to be worked out of them right [TS]

00:30:59   yeah we need to dump them in the pond it [TS]

00:31:02   its it's virtually is virtually medieval [TS]

00:31:04   yeah but any time somebody tries to [TS]

00:31:06   solve any of these problems once he's [TS]

00:31:07   like hearing you say that somebody sick [TS]

00:31:09   to my stomach just when you talk about [TS]

00:31:10   this like it's it's so gross thing i'm [TS]

00:31:12   on someone public radio the other day [TS]

00:31:15   about everybody everybody for years now [TS]

00:31:17   everybody's always and homelessness all [TS]

00:31:18   this is easy problem just go you just [TS]

00:31:20   gotta build shelters like you're being a [TS]

00:31:22   homeless shelter like it's not a great [TS]

00:31:24   place to be [TS]

00:31:24   oh you just gotta do this you just gotta [TS]

00:31:26   do that sometimes comes along try to [TS]

00:31:27   come up with something really novel like [TS]

00:31:29   you're talking about the thing while [TS]

00:31:30   back about like actually setting people [TS]

00:31:32   up and giving them a house and place to [TS]

00:31:33   live you know and that actually helps [TS]

00:31:35   the homeless problem because now they're [TS]

00:31:36   not homeless anymore [TS]

00:31:37   really wait a minute that's cheating [TS]

00:31:39   like you can actually help them you know [TS]

00:31:41   but this this piece was about just you [TS]

00:31:43   know I it's so fascinating and so as I [TS]

00:31:45   say so so like stomach-churning we get [TS]

00:31:47   into the implementation details are [TS]

00:31:49   trying to fix this because you know [TS]

00:31:51   people here joking about how much poop [TS]

00:31:53   through is on the streets here and you [TS]

00:31:55   said this in in that article that [TS]

00:31:56   interview with you like nobody poops on [TS]

00:31:58   the street because they want to they do [TS]

00:31:59   it because there's nowhere else to go [TS]

00:32:00   and it's not these people are they they [TS]

00:32:02   may have mental health issues but [TS]

00:32:03   they're not crazy [TS]

00:32:04   I'll give you that and so in this case [TS]

00:32:06   we're talking about how do you deal with [TS]

00:32:07   like this one of the single biggest [TS]

00:32:09   problems that people who are homeless or [TS]

00:32:10   on the edge have is like what to do with [TS]

00:32:12   their stuff when they're doing something [TS]

00:32:13   else like if you like if you want to try [TS]

00:32:16   and get a job like where you get close [TS]

00:32:18   where do you get a shower and how do you [TS]

00:32:19   have your five shopping carts be looked [TS]

00:32:21   after like while you're trying to get a [TS]

00:32:23   job it's virtually impossible and people [TS]

00:32:25   don't really think about that [TS]

00:32:26   implementation detail it's so mundane [TS]

00:32:28   and so extremely sad that you don't kind [TS]

00:32:31   of want to think about it too much but [TS]

00:32:33   like that's that's that's daily life [TS]

00:32:34   daily life for them is I have this is [TS]

00:32:36   everything that I have in the entire [TS]

00:32:37   world and it looks like it looks like [TS]

00:32:39   junk to you about this is what i have [TS]

00:32:40   and like you know what are the steps [TS]

00:32:43   between here and like now I'm providing [TS]

00:32:46   for myself in this you know studio [TS]

00:32:48   apartment right so many steps [TS]

00:32:50   well you just think about the number of [TS]

00:32:51   times that i have uh I have prioritized [TS]

00:32:56   that straightening out my file of [TS]

00:33:01   envelopes [TS]

00:33:03   right like I have a I have a and I have [TS]

00:33:05   an enormous closet that's not an [TS]

00:33:07   enormous closet but it is a closet that [TS]

00:33:09   is full of stationary now you find good [TS]

00:33:13   vintage envelopes or good ventilation [TS]

00:33:15   air you gotta put it somewhere [TS]

00:33:17   vintage envelopes a 90 I am so my [TS]

00:33:19   listeners think I'm kidding I'm not [TS]

00:33:20   kidding colored colored typing paper [TS]

00:33:23   really nice folders back when these to [TS]

00:33:25   make good folders utiful folders heavy [TS]

00:33:27   heavy bond hard stock yet and and then [TS]

00:33:31   all of the sort of like vintage [TS]

00:33:33   postcards and stuff all unused and all [TS]

00:33:36   and I'm stockpiling it in the in the [TS]

00:33:42   hope that i will one day return to males [TS]

00:33:45   correspondence that i will one day [TS]

00:33:48   sit down with my cursive typewriter your [TS]

00:33:51   hand here in a pistol Larry survivalist [TS]

00:33:53   and write a heartfelt letters on scented [TS]

00:33:56   stationery that is you know from 19th [TS]

00:33:58   century france and mail these things but [TS]

00:34:02   you know I have all this stuff and [TS]

00:34:04   what's funny is that the the time I [TS]

00:34:07   don't it's not like i have recently [TS]

00:34:08   spent any time organizing it but i have [TS]

00:34:10   spent time with this material it gives [TS]

00:34:13   me good great pleasure but i have [TS]

00:34:16   prioritized that over other things like [TS]

00:34:19   I need to go straighten out my [TS]

00:34:21   stationery right now instead of work on [TS]

00:34:25   my book or my new album or get some [TS]

00:34:29   exercise right you know and so I'm very [TS]

00:34:31   aware of a major problem i think that [TS]

00:34:37   that that we that we never really think [TS]

00:34:40   about which is that one of the one of [TS]

00:34:44   the primary problems that people with [TS]

00:34:45   mental health issues have is [TS]

00:34:47   prioritization and I'm incredibly [TS]

00:34:51   sympathetic to the to the idea or to the [TS]

00:34:54   just the the knowledge that so often you [TS]

00:34:57   say listen you need to secure these [TS]

00:34:59   necessities before you worry about your [TS]

00:35:02   five shopping carts full of you know [TS]

00:35:06   taco bell cups and the and the person is [TS]

00:35:10   like I am resisting what you're saying [TS]

00:35:12   like you have no idea how important [TS]

00:35:14   these shopping carts full of talk [TS]

00:35:16   Bell cups are and that I mean that [TS]

00:35:20   little switch is something that I [TS]

00:35:22   experienced all the time personally but [TS]

00:35:24   I'm on the other side of offense but I [TS]

00:35:28   could see myself very easily suffering a [TS]

00:35:33   series of of defeats and just not being [TS]

00:35:36   able to just practice uh-huh kind of [TS]

00:35:40   understanding of like the next step I [TS]

00:35:44   mean the next step is so is for some [TS]

00:35:47   people always so clear and for me is [TS]

00:35:49   always so ya covered with vines right [TS]

00:35:54   the next step is just it's just a ball [TS]

00:35:56   of lines but the the you know more [TS]

00:36:00   importantly like that I a dark or in our [TS]

00:36:04   culture in particular you can always as [TS]

00:36:07   you as you start trying to treat [TS]

00:36:08   homelessness we start trying to address [TS]

00:36:11   the criminal justice system or you know [TS]

00:36:13   anyone to be you start dealing with [TS]

00:36:15   income inequality you always push down [TS]

00:36:18   push down and you get to a certain level [TS]

00:36:20   of certain a certain tipping point with [TS]

00:36:24   almost anybody you talk to where you [TS]

00:36:27   arrive at the moment where they feel [TS]

00:36:28   like wait a minute now that's not fair [TS]

00:36:32   like that person has not done anything [TS]

00:36:35   to deserve food and shelter [TS]

00:36:39   yeah it's a Kobayashi Maru it's like you [TS]

00:36:41   you with this is this the way this game [TS]

00:36:44   it works is not in the way that it seems [TS]

00:36:47   and if you actually do the steps they're [TS]

00:36:49   needed to win this game you will by [TS]

00:36:50   definition be cheating cheating right [TS]

00:36:53   yeah right because because there's [TS]

00:36:55   someone over here who is working hard [TS]

00:36:57   and they are barely making it because [TS]

00:37:01   it's meritocracy and that's right so [TS]

00:37:04   this person is working hard and they're [TS]

00:37:06   barely making it look at that you go [TS]

00:37:07   right that is not i mean that is unfair [TS]

00:37:10   but that person is really working hard [TS]

00:37:12   and then you talk about providing an [TS]

00:37:15   apartment for a homeless person and [TS]

00:37:17   three squares a day which is what this [TS]

00:37:21   other person who's working hard is [TS]

00:37:23   barely achieving for themselves and you [TS]

00:37:26   just go well you can't just give that [TS]

00:37:27   away to somebody [TS]

00:37:28   that wouldn't be fair and that's the [TS]

00:37:32   point at which you can say well then [TS]

00:37:36   that person goes and lives in the bushes [TS]

00:37:38   because that's what they deserve and [TS]

00:37:40   addressing that cognitive struggle in [TS]

00:37:48   our culture is like so hard because you [TS]

00:37:51   don't eat no one's really aware where [TS]

00:37:54   it's coming from where that lesson [TS]

00:37:56   originates that if you don't work if you [TS]

00:38:01   don't try then then ultimately like you [TS]

00:38:06   deserve to die [TS]

00:38:07   you deserve to be pushed out of the [TS]

00:38:08   village and wander the desert and uh you [TS]

00:38:17   know in the end the the standard for [TS]

00:38:20   even being able to stay in in the game [TS]

00:38:23   at the lowest level now is so much [TS]

00:38:25   higher than it's ever been [TS]

00:38:26   oh god yes you can't live in the city [TS]

00:38:28   unless you are really really working [TS]

00:38:32   hard [TS]

00:38:33   John we have we are you know Oh to every [TS]

00:38:36   couple months comic meet up and I really [TS]

00:38:38   really nice guy and and is a girlfriend [TS]

00:38:41   came there just get ready to move here [TS]

00:38:43   from Atlanta and is so funny i feel like [TS]

00:38:46   had this conversation with people so [TS]

00:38:47   often where I I i want all the words [TS]

00:38:51   that come out of my mouth to be welcome [TS]

00:38:52   i really hope you enjoy here uh and I I [TS]

00:38:56   in my head I'm forming those words and I [TS]

00:38:58   want this to be the words that come out [TS]

00:38:59   but instead all that comes out is it [TS]

00:39:01   like a series of size and like I was [TS]

00:39:05   like oh I have helped you like the movie [TS]

00:39:07   is the worst attempt to not it's [TS]

00:39:10   terrible [TS]

00:39:11   don't come here it's bad it's really bad [TS]

00:39:14   if you don't think it's bad [TS]

00:39:16   you're the problem but if you don't [TS]

00:39:18   think this town is it's like living [TS]

00:39:20   inside of a godspeed you black emperor [TS]

00:39:22   song like it is disintegrating around us [TS]

00:39:25   and if you don't see that like it's [TS]

00:39:27   totally snowpiercer like you are in a [TS]

00:39:29   much you're a different part of the [TS]

00:39:31   mother fucking train if you do not see [TS]

00:39:33   the shitstorm that everybody in this [TS]

00:39:35   town is living through [TS]

00:39:36   but don't want that to come out as [TS]

00:39:38   congratulations on the move i hope the [TS]

00:39:40   job works out for you uh-huh [TS]

00:39:43   but but instead that that's that's how [TS]

00:39:45   it comes out because you know it's so [TS]

00:39:47   strange to me and I didn't get that I'm [TS]

00:39:49   not gonna be that guy but here's the [TS]

00:39:50   thing like twitter has this really nice [TS]

00:39:52   building in a part of town that is now [TS]

00:39:54   kind of like once want to kind of fancy [TS]

00:39:56   up because it's where twitter is and [TS]

00:39:58   stuff but it's so strange that you know [TS]

00:40:00   you've been to like too long you know [TS]

00:40:01   that area like around six the market [TS]

00:40:03   like you know between kind of the civic [TS]

00:40:06   center like you know west of civic [TS]

00:40:08   center but it's it's pretty bad it's [TS]

00:40:11   pretty gross and it's just it's so [TS]

00:40:13   strange to me that that some of the [TS]

00:40:14   folks who are the most fortunate like [TS]

00:40:16   are walking straight past some of the [TS]

00:40:18   greediest stuff i don't have to go there [TS]

00:40:20   very often i had to be there a couple [TS]

00:40:21   weeks ago for something for an event and [TS]

00:40:23   i was i was shocked like walking out of [TS]

00:40:25   the civic center bart and walking up it [TS]

00:40:28   was like okay this is this is really is [TS]

00:40:30   like something from a science-fiction [TS]

00:40:31   dystopia it's so gross and so desperate [TS]

00:40:34   and anyway welcome my friend from [TS]

00:40:38   Atlanta [TS]

00:40:38   i I uh I hope I hope this gradual asians [TS]

00:40:42   okay you know i mean every dystopian [TS]

00:40:47   movie there is like a clear separation [TS]

00:40:52   between the haves and the have-nots like [TS]

00:40:55   there there's always a metaphorical wall [TS]

00:40:58   right there is always a train that you [TS]

00:41:00   have to make it through several armored [TS]

00:41:02   doors to get to the front and left to [TS]

00:41:06   right back to front [TS]

00:41:07   what's amazing about San Francisco and [TS]

00:41:11   Seattle is that if there's no I mean [TS]

00:41:15   there are walls obviously like people [TS]

00:41:17   retreat behind walls but I in the in the [TS]

00:41:20   main complex of the city [TS]

00:41:22   the walls are all in people's minds you [TS]

00:41:25   know you come down it when in your in [TS]

00:41:27   your skinny pants and you go across the [TS]

00:41:33   street to get a al $11 coffee beverage [TS]

00:41:37   that was pooped out of a monkey's butt [TS]

00:41:40   and and you make it back across the [TS]

00:41:45   street and back into the lobby and up [TS]

00:41:47   and you just did not see the [TS]

00:41:49   like the economic carnage that you had [TS]

00:41:54   to literally step over to get to get the [TS]

00:41:57   monkey poop coffee right so I mean I [TS]

00:42:01   yeah I sympathize with with the young [TS]

00:42:07   rich people who are embracing a radical [TS]

00:42:10   ideology you know there are a lot of [TS]

00:42:12   young there are a lot of millennial kids [TS]

00:42:15   with a lot of opportunity who are [TS]

00:42:20   channeling that frustration into into [TS]

00:42:22   ideologies they're not the most [TS]

00:42:26   self-reflective people either but it [TS]

00:42:29   really does feel like some something is [TS]

00:42:32   something's got to happen and I don't [TS]

00:42:36   want it to be something something's [TS]

00:42:37   gonna happen i don't want to be a [TS]

00:42:39   violent revolution like that doesn't [TS]

00:42:41   interest me and I don't think that's a [TS]

00:42:44   very good solution i think historically [TS]

00:42:45   just in the last 200 years we can look [TS]

00:42:48   back at all the violent revolutions and [TS]

00:42:50   it does it's not too hard to say that [TS]

00:42:55   Martin Luther King and Gandhi had and [TS]

00:43:00   Mother Teresa had much better long-term [TS]

00:43:04   results from the way that from their [TS]

00:43:07   practice then the revolutions of 1917 or [TS]

00:43:13   1848 or even 1968 so i want to i want i [TS]

00:43:24   want everybody to hear and see and get [TS]

00:43:27   engaged and start making a difference [TS]

00:43:29   but boy speaking as somebody who is [TS]

00:43:33   trying to do that it's not it is not [TS]

00:43:36   easy because it like you say those walls [TS]

00:43:38   those walls are there even if they're [TS]

00:43:41   not there we can mentally make those [TS]

00:43:43   walls its issues you know it's so weird [TS]

00:43:45   me one for me personally maybe one [TS]

00:43:47   barometer of how good I feel about the [TS]

00:43:48   culture is is how much I'm constantly [TS]

00:43:50   reminded of the movie Brazil [TS]

00:43:52   and I'm thinking a lot about Brazil [TS]

00:43:55   lately and in this case now I'm thinking [TS]

00:43:56   of that wonderful city wonderful [TS]

00:43:58   horrible scene with her at the [TS]

00:43:59   restaurant say that number in there and [TS]

00:44:02   in the restaurant and a bomb goes off [TS]

00:44:03   and people are bleeding and dying and [TS]

00:44:05   and so that of course then all the way [TS]

00:44:07   to rush around to bring up like folding [TS]

00:44:09   screen so people don't wanna see the [TS]

00:44:11   victims while they're still eating the [TS]

00:44:14   other thing with the oskins keeps coming [TS]

00:44:16   to me in a dream [TS]

00:44:17   oh my God he's so great i right i [TS]

00:44:20   referenced Brazil to somebody the other [TS]

00:44:21   day in a political conversation and I [TS]

00:44:23   was just created by blank stares this [TS]

00:44:25   area have we really are always so are we [TS]

00:44:27   so far [TS]

00:44:29   oh my god i just brazil was the language [TS]

00:44:31   that movie is so relevant today that its [TS]

00:44:35   kind of appalling that was that relevant [TS]

00:44:37   in 1986 or whatever it was it's it seems [TS]

00:44:40   impossible that movie has is just seems [TS]

00:44:43   to make more sense all the time not just [TS]

00:44:45   the bureaucracy but just the [TS]

00:44:47   ineffectiveness the the ineffectiveness [TS]

00:44:48   and a callous and uh he said i'm martin [TS]

00:44:54   luther king i write something down [TS]

00:44:55   together has been a last week was kind [TS]

00:44:57   of a big week for America and the one of [TS]

00:44:59   the quotes people kept tossing out great [TS]

00:45:01   quote from martin luther king at the arc [TS]

00:45:03   of the moral universe is long but it [TS]

00:45:04   bends towards justice [TS]

00:45:05   yeah I i use that quote a lot and and [TS]

00:45:08   the response over the last several years [TS]

00:45:10   from people on the left has been really [TS]

00:45:14   do you really think that's true [TS]

00:45:16   like there's been so much cynicism right [TS]

00:45:19   because you have you have a very [TS]

00:45:20   optimistic approach this is saying that [TS]

00:45:22   like in the case of seattle for folks [TS]

00:45:24   who don't know you say you said over and [TS]

00:45:26   over we're on the brink of something [TS]

00:45:26   really amazing happening in seattle and [TS]

00:45:28   why can't everyone see that things are [TS]

00:45:31   getting better we have a liberal utopian [TS]

00:45:33   some ways now we have to get the [TS]

00:45:34   implementation details right right and [TS]

00:45:36   and you know and ultimately like I'm a [TS]

00:45:38   historian or I have a historians view of [TS]

00:45:42   things and so if you look at the if you [TS]

00:45:45   look at that arc in historical contexts [TS]

00:45:49   really in any one you want to choose its [TS]

00:45:53   it's absolutely true [TS]

00:45:55   it bends toward justice and so that [TS]

00:45:59   cynicism is just from people that are [TS]

00:46:01   that can only see five years [TS]

00:46:04   on either side or the don't think that [TS]

00:46:06   way at all [TS]

00:46:08   um and are only responding to how [TS]

00:46:10   they're feeling right now or 216 [TS]

00:46:12   politically expedient to say but yes of [TS]

00:46:15   course we're making progress everything [TS]

00:46:17   we've ever done as human beings has been [TS]

00:46:19   a progression towards something that we [TS]

00:46:23   never talked about or try to define and [TS]

00:46:27   you know there are a lot of people who [TS]

00:46:29   believe that that progression is is a a [TS]

00:46:35   kingdom after death or that progression [TS]

00:46:39   is to like have to personally ascend or [TS]

00:46:48   to climb through reincarnation a ladder [TS]

00:46:52   of enlightenment or you know there are [TS]

00:46:53   all these ideas about what happens to [TS]

00:46:57   you but we never talk about what we're [TS]

00:47:01   doing what happens to us and what we've [TS]

00:47:04   been through as as a written as a [TS]

00:47:06   species and the progression we've made [TS]

00:47:11   and I mean we see we see that the d the [TS]

00:47:15   destruction we have wrought and we can [TS]

00:47:19   look at ourselves as a kind of vermin or [TS]

00:47:22   plague on the earth that has gradually [TS]

00:47:25   sort of you know just as just as any [TS]

00:47:28   kind of parasite you know at first you [TS]

00:47:33   don't notice it and then pretty soon [TS]

00:47:34   there's some discoloration on your arm [TS]

00:47:37   and then pretty soon it's you know you [TS]

00:47:39   can really see the destruction and your [TS]

00:47:41   hair falls out you know that's kinda if [TS]

00:47:44   you did a time-lapse of the earth over [TS]

00:47:46   the last 50,000 years like human beings [TS]

00:47:49   have been here a long time and you did [TS]

00:47:51   we wouldn't have noticed them but is [TS]

00:47:53   just recently who we've reached the [TS]

00:47:56   level of like parasitic overpopulation [TS]

00:48:01   where the where we're starting to kill [TS]

00:48:04   the host but at the same time we have [TS]

00:48:07   like done so such incredible things and [TS]

00:48:11   have built such an incredible hive [TS]

00:48:14   and have conceived of such incredible [TS]

00:48:17   notions you know we invented the idea of [TS]

00:48:22   0 as far as we know right there's no [TS]

00:48:27   zero in nature of who we invented in [TS]

00:48:31   that and and and that's that's [TS]

00:48:33   impressive work and so but we never said [TS]

00:48:39   we never stop and say like leaving aside [TS]

00:48:42   Valhalla and and heaven where you're [TS]

00:48:47   reunited with your ancestors like what [TS]

00:48:49   is our long-term goal how do we think [TS]

00:48:51   about our goal for Humanity that what [TS]

00:48:56   that will that is generations-long right [TS]

00:49:00   other than just build build build right [TS]

00:49:03   right [TS]

00:49:04   what is our what's our long-term plan [TS]

00:49:07   now and we're at we're finally at a [TS]

00:49:08   place where we can where we can talk [TS]

00:49:10   about this because but prior to this in [TS]

00:49:12   human history it's just like fruit for [TS]

00:49:15   for millennia was just like season to [TS]

00:49:17   season like how to stay alive [TS]

00:49:18   yeah how do we stay alive how do we beat [TS]

00:49:20   back nature and and persist and then you [TS]

00:49:27   know certain certain places it kind of [TS]

00:49:29   morphed into like okay we don't need to [TS]

00:49:31   you know my family at least says rich [TS]

00:49:34   guy in 900 AD like my family's going to [TS]

00:49:38   survive now now how do i consolidate [TS]

00:49:41   power and money to myself so that I can [TS]

00:49:43   protect my treiber you know I mean all [TS]

00:49:45   these evolutions of the idea but we're [TS]

00:49:48   only now this is one of these ideas [TS]

00:49:51   about like the nation's power of the [TS]

00:49:52   internet only now are we able to see [TS]

00:49:55   through the through the broad sweep of [TS]

00:49:57   time that we have the ability to start [TS]

00:49:59   making plans for ourselves and our [TS]

00:50:02   cities and at where we're talking you [TS]

00:50:06   know this whole sustainability movement [TS]

00:50:08   is is a long-term game or there's no way [TS]

00:50:13   we can even know what that will look [TS]

00:50:14   like if it's exceeding Yeah right right [TS]

00:50:16   you'll never know but you have to make [TS]

00:50:18   sacrifices and play a role in in a in an [TS]

00:50:23   ultimate goal that you're just a [TS]

00:50:26   you know you're just one of millions of [TS]

00:50:30   participants in and yeah that's that's [TS]

00:50:35   very exciting and it could be very it [TS]

00:50:38   could be really uniting well yeah that's [TS]

00:50:41   why I actually why I brought up that [TS]

00:50:43   quote and I'm glad you said what you [TS]

00:50:45   said because it is actually underscores [TS]

00:50:47   what i was thinking and let me first of [TS]

00:50:49   all like you when you talk about stuff [TS]

00:50:51   like what we thought the internet would [TS]

00:50:51   do for us you know the Internet has [TS]

00:50:56   ended up being something that we mainly [TS]

00:50:58   use to amplify what we think or or [TS]

00:51:02   amplify you know what we want to have [TS]

00:51:04   heard about ourselves and about the [TS]

00:51:05   things that we care about but in talking [TS]

00:51:07   about the how the more arc of the moral [TS]

00:51:10   universe is long but it bends towards [TS]

00:51:12   justice when you thought we were talking [TS]

00:51:13   earlier about how you deal with stuff [TS]

00:51:14   like homelessness for these kind of [TS]

00:51:15   problems i think the attractor the [TS]

00:51:17   magnet that helps pull that arc in a lot [TS]

00:51:21   of ways if you look back in retrospect [TS]

00:51:22   it was succeeded at so much of those [TS]

00:51:25   times along the way is when we to the [TS]

00:51:28   extent possible kept reducing our sense [TS]

00:51:31   of who is the other if you look at [TS]

00:51:33   anything that has ever gotten better [TS]

00:51:35   about people it's about realizing there [TS]

00:51:37   really isn't any such thing as another I [TS]

00:51:39   mean we needed that other one was about [TS]

00:51:40   traps right if you want to do is 900 AD [TS]

00:51:42   and you want to keep your castle going [TS]

00:51:44   like you had their everybody was another [TS]

00:51:46   except for this group [TS]

00:51:47   it's just that you know you look at [TS]

00:51:48   what's happened in the past week [TS]

00:51:50   think about where we were two years ago [TS]

00:51:52   let alone ten years ago was thinking [TS]

00:51:55   about like who's allowed to love each [TS]

00:51:56   other publicly i think a big amount of [TS]

00:52:00   that i'm far from the first person to [TS]

00:52:01   set point this out but it helps a lot [TS]

00:52:03   when you start realizing first of all [TS]

00:52:04   there's a lot more of that kind of [TS]

00:52:06   people that I thought isn't that [TS]

00:52:07   interesting it's not really you know one [TS]

00:52:09   in 10 or less it could be a lot more [TS]

00:52:11   than that and it could be a lot more [TS]

00:52:12   complicated than that then you also [TS]

00:52:14   start to realize they're not they're not [TS]

00:52:15   monsters [TS]

00:52:16   maybe they deserve to be human beings in [TS]

00:52:18   a way that didn't expect just by having [TS]

00:52:20   respect for the fact that i've not been [TS]

00:52:21   exposed to those people and I see that [TS]

00:52:24   they are just people and I'm the monster [TS]

00:52:25   that I think a lot of that has happened [TS]

00:52:27   in the last two years on me again I'll [TS]

00:52:29   speak for myself in some ways so kind of [TS]

00:52:30   stuff from where I'm the real monster [TS]

00:52:32   here like all these other people that I [TS]

00:52:34   think are our impending on the thing [TS]

00:52:35   that I'd like to announce our are not [TS]

00:52:38   the problem [TS]

00:52:39   the problem is i'm not paying enough [TS]

00:52:41   attention to who I think is the other [TS]

00:52:43   and like what kind of case they have how [TS]

00:52:44   sad is that they have to even make a [TS]

00:52:46   case you do what I mean I i agree that [TS]

00:52:50   there that there is no other and [TS]

00:52:53   ultimately i mean i remember when i was [TS]

00:52:55   in high school I had a couple of good [TS]

00:52:57   friends who were really conservatives [TS]

00:52:59   you know high school conservatives right [TS]

00:53:03   they love jack kemp he was their hero [TS]

00:53:05   and they were this kind of they were [TS]

00:53:10   they the Young Republicans who have a [TS]

00:53:13   sort of sharp dressed and sharp-edged [TS]

00:53:16   ideology and that you know that makes [TS]

00:53:20   them feel very kind of superior and cool [TS]

00:53:22   particularly when they can trust [TS]

00:53:25   themselves against the like soft [TS]

00:53:27   liberalism right soft and wasteful [TS]

00:53:30   liberalism and these guys were a couple [TS]

00:53:33   of my really close friends we we shared [TS]

00:53:37   a we shared tastes in music and we [TS]

00:53:39   shared tastes in comedy and we enjoyed [TS]

00:53:42   each other's company but we just could [TS]

00:53:44   not and actually we enjoyed arguing [TS]

00:53:49   about politics that was a thing that [TS]

00:53:50   that sort of you bound us together in a [TS]

00:53:54   way but though that the way that they [TS]

00:53:57   they had a quote that that they would [TS]

00:53:59   use to kind of try to defeat me in [TS]

00:54:01   arguments when I would start talking too [TS]

00:54:03   much about collective action or [TS]

00:54:06   collective thinking and I think one of [TS]

00:54:08   them had seen it on a bumper sticker one [TS]

00:54:10   time and they would just throw it in my [TS]

00:54:12   face [TS]

00:54:14   they would you know i untied be spinning [TS]

00:54:17   this like story about how they're there [TS]

00:54:20   was no race it was just a construct and [TS]

00:54:24   we needed to you know and that's that [TS]

00:54:26   1986 or 95 or whatever that wasn't as [TS]

00:54:29   popularly known and these guys would [TS]

00:54:32   stare at me and go one planet one people [TS]

00:54:35   please [TS]

00:54:37   which was a bumper sticker i guess like [TS]

00:54:41   a little like a liberal like the kind of [TS]

00:54:43   thing you buy at the coop food store [TS]

00:54:45   yeah one planet one people please [TS]

00:54:48   and you know that and I would kind of [TS]

00:54:50   stand there and go like yeah actually [TS]

00:54:52   right i mean one planet [TS]

00:54:55   you can't dispute that one people pretty [TS]

00:54:59   much pretty much one people if you if [TS]

00:55:04   you think about it and the please part I [TS]

00:55:09   don't know what to tell you like I don't [TS]

00:55:10   know what to say you would you rather it [TS]

00:55:12   be one planet one people by force but [TS]

00:55:16   it's also it's also getting something [TS]

00:55:18   that I happen to ya I don't love feeling [TS]

00:55:21   this way but agree on which is that [TS]

00:55:22   liberals can be insufferable just the [TS]

00:55:25   worst would be great day when our [TS]

00:55:27   schools have all the money they needed [TS]

00:55:28   air force has to have a big sale [TS]

00:55:30   biopolymer first fall it's too fucking [TS]

00:55:32   long to have a proper stick-up you need [TS]

00:55:34   to edit that shit down like you can read [TS]

00:55:37   it it's too small one planet when people [TS]

00:55:39   please got got edited down to coexist [TS]

00:55:43   with all the little symbols and the bond [TS]

00:55:45   oh my god that is that is so perfect [TS]

00:55:47   that is such a perfect summary of what [TS]

00:55:49   is annoying about liberals the first of [TS]

00:55:50   all are using all of these different [TS]

00:55:51   symbols to form an English word they're [TS]

00:55:54   like they're fucking with all of these [TS]

00:55:57   very important symbols of different [TS]

00:56:00   peoples and faiths to make an [TS]

00:56:01   english-language we're going to make a [TS]

00:56:03   font make it fun yeah that they can be [TS]

00:56:05   put on their their suburban or whatever [TS]

00:56:07   god I i showed up at my office today and [TS]

00:56:13   my office manager the manager of the [TS]

00:56:16   building slipped a key fob under the [TS]

00:56:22   door for me the key fob being the new [TS]

00:56:26   way that we're going to enter and exit [TS]

00:56:28   the building what's keyless entry [TS]

00:56:30   keyless entry one key fob fob and the [TS]

00:56:35   key fob is is built in such a way that [TS]

00:56:39   there's really no way to carry it except [TS]

00:56:42   on your key ring it is a key fob it's [TS]

00:56:47   that you can't slip it in your wallet he [TS]

00:56:49   camps [TS]

00:56:50   it's it's small enough that it would get [TS]

00:56:54   lost if you didn't put it somewhere and [TS]

00:56:55   so I have to put it on my keys now but [TS]

00:56:59   it's made out of that that kind of party [TS]

00:57:02   colored plastic that all IBM pcs are [TS]

00:57:06   made out of [TS]

00:57:07   yeah it's like that Universal uh [TS]

00:57:09   parti-colored dingus plastic color it's [TS]

00:57:12   pretty dangerous putting his fingers [TS]

00:57:14   buddy thanks bye [TS]

00:57:15   and and so I have this thing on my keys [TS]

00:57:20   that now basically makes it look like [TS]

00:57:22   Mikey's got lost and this is the tag [TS]

00:57:26   that they put on them in lost and found [TS]

00:57:29   it looks like a piece of evidence now or [TS]

00:57:32   it looks like like I curate the look of [TS]

00:57:35   my keys right I'm I'm I'm not a I'm not [TS]

00:57:40   just some person with a bunch of dumb [TS]

00:57:42   keys like I have a little leather flap [TS]

00:57:46   that has a that's tool a little too [TS]

00:57:49   leather flap on my key ring that has a [TS]

00:57:53   little kitten on it for four and then I [TS]

00:57:56   arrange my keys in a in the order that I [TS]

00:58:00   that I prefer to find them and one of [TS]

00:58:04   the keys has a little piece of red tape [TS]

00:58:05   on it and one of the keys is branded [TS]

00:58:09   seattle seahawks and now i have and [TS]

00:58:13   they're a couple of keys that are night [TS]

00:58:14   like nice classic-looking keys like old [TS]

00:58:17   older keys heavy style keys that I'm [TS]

00:58:20   very proud of and then i have this [TS]

00:58:22   fucking biggest party [TS]

00:58:25   uh-huh going on here and I know this is [TS]

00:58:27   meant to make my life better [TS]

00:58:29   I know I understand that it's but it's [TS]

00:58:33   part of the modernization project [TS]

00:58:36   yeah but it'sit's so hegemonic it's it's [TS]

00:58:40   it's sort of like you know I have a [TS]

00:58:42   feeling that for years now you think [TS]

00:58:45   about all those dumb loyalty programs [TS]

00:58:46   like you know you by nine subs and you [TS]

00:58:48   get a free sub or you can have what we [TS]

00:58:50   call check-cashing card if you want to [TS]

00:58:52   get the discount at the grocery store [TS]

00:58:54   I mean I imagine that in some way the [TS]

00:58:56   technology has existed for years to do [TS]

00:58:58   what most of us do now which is in our [TS]

00:58:59   phone number at the thing you don't want [TS]

00:59:01   to but you want to discount right but I [TS]

00:59:03   think [TS]

00:59:03   technology is probably existed for years [TS]

00:59:05   i think the real trick to having this [TS]

00:59:06   loyalty cards is having a constant [TS]

00:59:08   advertisement in your wallet for this [TS]

00:59:10   place that's what the way look at the [TS]

00:59:12   card is because when you're doing your [TS]

00:59:14   little taxonomy of keys and figuring out [TS]

00:59:15   in this case what goes in your wallet [TS]

00:59:17   you have to decide which one of those [TS]

00:59:18   are important enough but now like right [TS]

00:59:20   now is your driver's license your credit [TS]

00:59:21   card a picture of your kid is a little [TS]

00:59:23   thing about subs you carry around [TS]

00:59:25   advertisement about subs in your wallet [TS]

00:59:27   all the time which is brilliant [TS]

00:59:29   if you can think about it pretty [TS]

00:59:30   brilliant that they pull that off and [TS]

00:59:32   that's what's happening with all these [TS]

00:59:33   things these guys ago that thing I buddy [TS]

00:59:35   is this means is that they want when you [TS]

00:59:38   buy a fucking car now they want to carry [TS]

00:59:40   this thing is the size of a large [TS]

00:59:42   matchbox uh-huh but with a car the car [TS]

00:59:45   we got last year I can't I like what it [TS]

00:59:47   would do we really need to have a key [TS]

00:59:48   this large uh-huh [TS]

00:59:50   because it doesn't want to be a key it [TS]

00:59:51   wants to be the nexus of keys it was [TS]

00:59:53   that that's the hegemony is college [TS]

00:59:57   going back to last week but that's what [TS]

00:59:57   going back to last week but that's what [TS]

01:00:00   to be it doesn't want to be a kinky [TS]

01:00:01   wants to be king of the keys and [TS]

01:00:03   everybody else believes unto Him kinky [TS]

01:00:05   kinky low was betide you how how many [TS]

01:00:09   dinguses do you have on [TS]

01:00:12   yeah it's you know that guy you wanna [TS]

01:00:15   know the truth I have the most basic you [TS]

01:00:20   know the kind of key chain where you [TS]

01:00:21   open up your thumbnail and put these on [TS]

01:00:23   there [TS]

01:00:24   yep two keys whoa what was that you ski [TS]

01:00:29   ski office key i spent 48 years getting [TS]

01:00:31   it down to two keys [TS]

01:00:33   I used to think it was a sign of status [TS]

01:00:34   to have many keys many people still [TS]

01:00:36   believe this but i know i have i have [TS]

01:00:39   those two keys if I need the car key i [TS]

01:00:42   grab the car key to key not having a car [TS]

01:00:45   key on there also means i drive less two [TS]

01:00:49   keys so I'm you know the thing is also [TS]

01:00:51   like I don't have a lot of dell like I [TS]

01:00:52   don't boats and stuff like that and i'm [TS]

01:00:54   not trying to look down on people to do [TS]

01:00:55   but like to me that's freedom is fewer [TS]

01:00:56   keys [TS]

01:00:57   mhm is somebody should definitely attend [TS]

01:01:00   creative fewer keys because every key [TS]

01:01:02   you get is another thing you have to [TS]

01:01:03   take care of now i remember when i had [TS]

01:01:06   zero keys in my twenties and I really [TS]

01:01:10   living in the minivan i was living in [TS]

01:01:11   the minivan and I didn't even have a key [TS]

01:01:13   to it and then I got story they did I [TS]

01:01:16   what does a huge deal as they like [TS]

01:01:18   here's a key to the house if you really [TS]

01:01:19   need it don't abuse it right yeah I got [TS]

01:01:21   a key and then when I got a job I got a [TS]

01:01:24   key to my my work and I had a key to an [TS]

01:01:29   apartment and a key to my work and then [TS]

01:01:30   that I had those two keys for a long [TS]

01:01:33   time and then i got i was like the [TS]

01:01:35   assistant manager and they gave me a [TS]

01:01:36   different key just the newsstand the [TS]

01:01:38   newsstand three keys and then my mom [TS]

01:01:42   moved to town and I had a key to her [TS]

01:01:44   house for keys and I didn't get a car I [TS]

01:01:50   didn't you know I didn't get a car in [TS]

01:01:52   seattle until I was about 30 years old [TS]

01:01:54   and then I had a key to that and at a [TS]

01:01:57   certain point when the earth in the [TS]

01:01:59   early long winters to her days you had [TS]

01:02:02   like I remember so many key you look [TS]

01:02:05   like a superintendent you had that giant [TS]

01:02:06   a small it with all the currencies of [TS]

01:02:09   the world in it [TS]

01:02:10   and all of the the money the band made [TS]

01:02:12   you a giant giant truckers wallet and [TS]

01:02:14   you had a huge Yankees you like a [TS]

01:02:16   superintendent yeah i did i did i was [TS]

01:02:18   and you know I was probably wearing a [TS]

01:02:19   hat that said King ropes Sheridan [TS]

01:02:22   Wyoming or or you know [TS]

01:02:25   Marvins gas and go tight women loose in [TS]

01:02:29   here [TS]

01:02:29   no no you for years you had had to sit [TS]

01:02:34   chick magnet on it [TS]

01:02:35   chick magnet because I believe in truth [TS]

01:02:38   in advertising but now i have i have [TS]

01:02:41   this key ring that has you know that's [TS]

01:02:43   been that's been really good office keys [TS]

01:02:45   house keys and now i have a fuckin [TS]

01:02:49   dingus on and I just I it's only been on [TS]

01:02:52   there for the length of this program I [TS]

01:02:54   was putting it on my key ring as I as I [TS]

01:02:57   was sitting here waiting for you to call [TS]

01:02:58   and I'm just looking at I'm trying to [TS]

01:03:01   figure out you know the dingus kind of [TS]

01:03:02   sticks out at an angle from the rest of [TS]

01:03:04   the keys because so good i couldn't have [TS]

01:03:06   it on there i used to have like a little [TS]

01:03:08   aluminum arm bottle cap opener here this [TS]

01:03:11   looks super light little things even [TS]

01:03:13   that was too much I had to take that off [TS]

01:03:14   of there [TS]

01:03:15   so what do i do I put this on a rope [TS]

01:03:17   around my neck I married a backpack and [TS]

01:03:18   give me a cancer [TS]

01:03:20   um I carry my briefcase because i am a [TS]

01:03:24   serious candidate for public office to [TS]

01:03:27   me like in my lifestyle that's good that [TS]

01:03:29   screams backpack to me you know it's [TS]

01:03:31   just but I mean are you with me a little [TS]

01:03:32   bit on the gem anything like it seems [TS]

01:03:34   like everything wants to be the center [TS]

01:03:35   of everything now [TS]

01:03:36   yeah and and like I think about how many [TS]

01:03:38   things are becoming more externalized [TS]

01:03:40   where you used to have [TS]

01:03:42   I must go way back you have a pocket [TS]

01:03:44   watch in your pocket you'd have a you [TS]

01:03:46   know a billfold in your inner jacket you [TS]

01:03:49   might have you might have kids but like [TS]

01:03:50   very few of your items of flair would be [TS]

01:03:52   external now when i go pick up my kid to [TS]

01:03:55   camp for the zoo this especially with [TS]

01:03:57   the women like I guess I want to carry a [TS]

01:03:58   purse or something but they're walking [TS]

01:04:00   around with all this stuff they have [TS]

01:04:01   these giant like a jailer with this [TS]

01:04:03   giant ring of keys too many many [TS]

01:04:04   minivans little matchboxes on there they [TS]

01:04:07   got a phone and maybe an ipad they got a [TS]

01:04:09   wallet it's like the people just carry [TS]

01:04:11   that stuff around with them know it [TS]

01:04:12   seems it seems so strange to me [TS]

01:04:13   well like I I never go anywhere without [TS]

01:04:15   a jacket and a backpack [TS]

01:04:17   you always need a jacket and backpack [TS]

01:04:19   because it's you know and and and look [TS]

01:04:20   here's the thing like with my kid [TS]

01:04:22   can I I my wife and I go around on this [TS]

01:04:24   sometimes we will be 70 in the morning [TS]

01:04:26   and I'm like listen I don't care if it's [TS]

01:04:28   80 the thing is the arcade is being [TS]

01:04:31   raised in san francisco and she will [TS]

01:04:32   learn to always have a jacket that [TS]

01:04:34   always yes never not have a jacket [TS]

01:04:37   because here's the thing you can take it [TS]

01:04:38   off [TS]

01:04:38   we r pacific coast people yeah and you [TS]

01:04:41   need a jacket a light jacket like i'm [TS]

01:04:44   here with children will be born wearing [TS]

01:04:45   fleece I went the other day i was lucky [TS]

01:04:50   enough to meet a guy who runs a company [TS]

01:04:55   that is to devising or building out [TS]

01:05:01   vr and they are technologies em and i [TS]

01:05:07   went to their shop and AR augmented [TS]

01:05:11   reality augmented one that went to the [TS]

01:05:13   shop and I put on an oculus headset boop [TS]

01:05:16   and I was ushered into a virtual reality [TS]

01:05:21   universe and given several tours of [TS]

01:05:28   different virtual realities and try on a [TS]

01:05:34   couple of headsets including the one [TS]

01:05:35   that the one made of cardboard [TS]

01:05:38   I think we're going to google and google [TS]

01:05:39   one yeah and some others the way you [TS]

01:05:41   just kind of slip you're big you're big [TS]

01:05:44   nokia phone into a slot and all of a [TS]

01:05:47   sudden it's a it functions as a VR right [TS]

01:05:50   and you know the state of the technology [TS]

01:05:56   right now is is it's very new and a lot [TS]

01:06:02   of the stuff i was looking at kind of [TS]

01:06:03   felt like the money for nothing video [TS]

01:06:06   that all right hand like very basic [TS]

01:06:10   wireframe like hot polyhedrons and look [TS]

01:06:14   at this the guy look at morning working [TS]

01:06:16   get your money on your MTV there you [TS]

01:06:20   know I mean obviously better than that [TS]

01:06:22   but still like yeah this is not let's [TS]

01:06:25   let's not call this reality but there [TS]

01:06:28   were some incredible i mean there was [TS]

01:06:31   some incredible stuff footed shot from [TS]

01:06:34   three-dimensional cameras are you know [TS]

01:06:37   like 360-degree cameras where you're [TS]

01:06:40   flying a helicopter over beautiful [TS]

01:06:43   Iceland and you're able to kind of turn [TS]

01:06:45   your head and look around this this [TS]

01:06:47   place and and in you know just sort of [TS]

01:06:54   in in its not in real time but you are [TS]

01:06:58   able to explore a kind of a an [TS]

01:07:02   environment and as I was as I was a in [TS]

01:07:07   that world I felt like yeah write it as [TS]

01:07:10   a as from a gaming standpoint or from a [TS]

01:07:13   from a like demo a job training [TS]

01:07:20   standpoint or from a from a touristic [TS]

01:07:23   standpoint like this type of thing is [TS]

01:07:25   very interesting but really it's [TS]

01:07:26   augmented reality that is going to be [TS]

01:07:28   where we live [TS]

01:07:30   yeah that's going to be our universe and [TS]

01:07:33   I feel like all these key fobs and iPads [TS]

01:07:38   and and this sort of backpack or purse [TS]

01:07:44   full of Gidget gadgets and Gaz Mo's like [TS]

01:07:52   where that's all leading is that in our [TS]

01:07:55   glasses which we're all gonna wear in [TS]

01:07:59   our in our advisors there will be a [TS]

01:08:02   constant sort of ebb and flow between [TS]

01:08:05   reality and the augmentation of it and [TS]

01:08:10   you're gonna you know you're going to [TS]

01:08:12   look at the at the lock on your door and [TS]

01:08:14   it's going to open because it's going to [TS]

01:08:15   recognize right maybe the right [TS]

01:08:17   triangulation of things like right that [TS]

01:08:19   there's you year there's presents the [TS]

01:08:21   presences you you are looking at it and [TS]

01:08:24   you know exactly but the right [TS]

01:08:26   combination of things are so many things [TS]

01:08:27   the air can change [TS]

01:08:29   yeah you just so much sooner than VR [TS]

01:08:30   walk around you just sort of like how i [TS]

01:08:33   would like to activate the the history [TS]

01:08:36   you know they're like our local archives [TS]

01:08:39   because i want to know when this [TS]

01:08:41   building was built and when the addition [TS]

01:08:45   was put on and [TS]

01:08:46   just like pow and then you're like I'm [TS]

01:08:48   really i'm on the bus i'm really bored [TS]

01:08:50   right now I would like to bring up some [TS]

01:08:53   some infotainment but there are but I'm [TS]

01:08:56   always gonna have I'm always gonna be [TS]

01:08:58   able to look through it in order to make [TS]

01:09:00   sure that nobody steps on my foot or you [TS]

01:09:02   know nobody takes me by surprise and [TS]

01:09:05   this kind of like in and out of of [TS]

01:09:10   reality this is the new reality and it's [TS]

01:09:15   you know it's so tantalizing to look at [TS]

01:09:18   it in its in its germinating stage and [TS]

01:09:23   just say like wow this is like so [TS]

01:09:25   primitive primitive right now compared [TS]

01:09:26   to what it will be [TS]

01:09:27   yeah and and so like that the endless [TS]

01:09:31   possibilities of it are truly an [TS]

01:09:33   evolution of looking at an evolutionary [TS]

01:09:35   possibility like it we we cannot know [TS]

01:09:38   because it would be like it would be [TS]

01:09:41   like being a lizard and imagining that [TS]

01:09:44   you had warm blood or something like [TS]

01:09:48   it's just there's gonna be so much [TS]

01:09:51   our minds are going to work so much [TS]

01:09:52   differently life is going to be so much [TS]

01:09:54   different and it's thrilling and I just [TS]

01:09:59   you know just just the ability to kind [TS]

01:10:02   of put on a headset and be real world [TS]

01:10:04   and and it will always be alien to me [TS]

01:10:11   you know but it won't be to my kid or [TS]

01:10:13   yours [TS]

01:10:13   I feel like I feel like we will always [TS]

01:10:19   be I we will be mocked and derided our [TS]

01:10:23   generation because we bridged this gap [TS]

01:10:27   between a purely mechanical world like [TS]

01:10:33   the the generation before ours you know [TS]

01:10:37   they went out and worked on their cars [TS]

01:10:39   on a saturday right and we have spent [TS]

01:10:43   our whole lives playing missed and the [TS]

01:10:49   next [TS]

01:10:49   generation is going to be able to [TS]

01:10:51   conjure all data at at once and we're [TS]

01:10:54   gonna really the loonies because we [TS]

01:10:55   could have done it sooner right or [TS]

01:10:57   something you know what better and [TS]

01:10:58   they're gonna see us you know here with [TS]

01:11:00   our like like electric cars and it's [TS]

01:11:05   just gonna seem so funny like okay could [TS]

01:11:07   you have the electric car and yet you [TS]

01:11:11   can open highway seek yeah you didn't [TS]

01:11:13   claim it yet and you know and and we had [TS]

01:11:16   our little phones and we spent all this [TS]

01:11:17   time using them to kind of using them as [TS]

01:11:21   phones and write all this you know we're [TS]

01:11:25   just this this this like connective [TS]

01:11:28   tissue era where nothing nothing we're [TS]

01:11:31   actually doing is elegant or I mean it's [TS]

01:11:34   said like the idea of going down in [TS]

01:11:38   cruising the strip in your 57 Chevy is [TS]

01:11:40   so much more elegant am then sitting on [TS]

01:11:44   facebook on a Saturday night posting a [TS]

01:11:48   posting like huffy indignant messages [TS]

01:11:51   friends [TS]

01:11:53   we're going to be best remembered on our [TS]

01:11:54   good days for not getting in the way too [TS]

01:11:56   much [TS]

01:11:57   yeah you didn't you didn't directly [TS]

01:11:59   stand in the way of incredibly obvious [TS]

01:12:00   you you know what here's the thing i [TS]

01:12:02   love about your grandpa is it over time [TS]

01:12:04   you somehow found a way to be less and [TS]

01:12:06   less standing exactly in the way of [TS]

01:12:08   progress and you're standing there with [TS]

01:12:11   your you know with your ipad that [TS]

01:12:13   doesn't work because your cloud is full [TS]

01:12:15   on shaking it going [TS]

01:12:17   god damn and I just need to upgrade my [TS]

01:12:18   OS just need a fresh heal when you are [TS]

01:12:21   when you get a leech Anya is it like in [TS]

01:12:24   the movies doesn't make a little bloody [TS]

01:12:26   spot when you pull it off [TS]

01:12:27   oh yeah oh yeah so it's got like teeth [TS]

01:12:30   oh yeah it's gonna be there squirming [TS]

01:12:32   and crawling on you and they're really [TS]

01:12:33   there literally like big they're very [TS]

01:12:36   big but they're kinda like a slug look [TS]

01:12:39   at that there are little tiny leader [TS]

01:12:41   leeches of all sizes but these this [TS]

01:12:43   particular leach experience they were [TS]

01:12:45   leeches as big as slugs bigger than [TS]

01:12:47   snails as big as big big Western slugs [TS]

01:12:50   it and but they're you know they are [TS]

01:12:53   biting into you and and sucking your [TS]

01:12:57   blood [TS]

01:12:58   and that's horrifying [TS]

01:13:03   it's horrifying even if you are not [TS]

01:13:04   somebody who's already horrified by most [TS]

01:13:08   things which I was then you know like [TS]

01:13:12   horrified by strange foods harley and of [TS]

01:13:14   course sounds in the night horrified by [TS]

01:13:17   in some ways fortified by nature even [TS]

01:13:22   though I grew up kind of surrounded by [TS]

01:13:24   nature like I mean I was never horrified [TS]

01:13:27   by wolves always horrified by bugs [TS]

01:13:34   I like that was birds now we talk about [TS]

01:13:36   birds so many times but like little [TS]

01:13:38   little beady-eyed animals are starting [TS]

01:13:39   to freak me out more so birds are are [TS]

01:13:41   the thing that are getting under your [TS]

01:13:43   skin [TS]

01:13:44   I mean I get around ok but as long as I [TS]

01:13:46   don't think about it too much but when I [TS]

01:13:48   think about birds and the way that they [TS]

01:13:50   move [TS]

01:13:50   it's troubling to me like that watching [TS]

01:13:52   a pigeon move makes me very [TS]

01:13:53   uncomfortable when they're on the ground [TS]

01:13:55   or whether in the air [TS]

01:13:56   I pretty elegant the airborne their [TS]

01:13:57   decision that quirky little herky-jerky [TS]

01:13:59   dance when they're walking around [TS]

01:14:01   yeah people feed him yeah yeah you [TS]

01:14:03   imagine you try to imagine what they're [TS]

01:14:05   thinking [TS]

01:14:06   yeah vision I mean you know i'm i'm now [TS]

01:14:08   engaged in a process of trying to rid my [TS]

01:14:10   house of the possum is this like it [TS]

01:14:12   before it's a project now it's project [TS]

01:14:14   and I've got some possum traps in the [TS]

01:14:17   basement in the Attic the possum has so [TS]

01:14:20   far now we're going into day three day [TS]

01:14:23   four the possum has avoided the traps [TS]

01:14:26   but has also been kind of not around I [TS]

01:14:29   have not heard the possum [TS]

01:14:30   I'm trying to imagine the possum imagine [TS]

01:14:34   what he's thinking when he arrives sees [TS]

01:14:36   the trap smells the bait her in the dark [TS]

01:14:43   and it's really a little bachelor pad [TS]

01:14:45   his pad he's like wait a minute [TS]

01:14:47   something's something new is here smells [TS]

01:14:50   good looks weird like where he goes it [TS]

01:14:54   is possible mind right now where he goes [TS]

01:14:57   is is out back outside or something he's [TS]

01:15:01   not he's not falling for it so i hope i [TS]

01:15:06   don't i hope i don't have like [TS]

01:15:07   the smart possum [TS]

01:15:11   I don't be so miserable if you have an [TS]

01:15:12   infestation of smart possums I hope no [TS]

01:15:18   no like where they were they've got a [TS]

01:15:19   learning a learning thing you know like [TS]

01:15:21   the crows like if you cross the pond [TS]

01:15:22   where I think about I don't think about [TS]

01:15:24   but you cross a possum with a crowd you [TS]

01:15:25   gotta become serious problems now let's [TS]

01:15:27   think about that for a second [TS]

01:15:28   uh-huh how much what needs to happen in [TS]

01:15:31   the possum community where they can [TS]

01:15:33   achieve with the crow community has been [TS]

01:15:35   doing for years that the ability to [TS]

01:15:38   share information with large groups of [TS]

01:15:41   other members of the tribe [TS]

01:15:43   yep and i think the problem is possible [TS]

01:15:45   or solitary uh-huh and it's that their [TS]

01:15:48   lack of social that lack of like social [TS]

01:15:51   connection they're never going to get as [TS]

01:15:52   smart as the crows that we're going to [TS]

01:15:54   keep those labs in different states [TS]

01:15:56   I'm with possible a micro lab I don't [TS]

01:15:58   want to even have each other's phone [TS]

01:15:59   number i tried many different places so [TS]

01:16:00   think about that think that somebody [TS]

01:16:02   gets fired once the console of trouble [TS]

01:16:04   you know I'm saying they introduced a [TS]

01:16:06   virus that makes possum social maybe of [TS]

01:16:09   Jesus this jar falls in this petri dish [TS]

01:16:10   whoops and all of a sudden possums are [TS]

01:16:14   congregating here up in your attic here [TS]

01:16:16   because i have little conversations [TS]

01:16:19   about you and like and like how funny is [TS]

01:16:22   that you think that trap works [TS]

01:16:23   yeah we're just when you come out of the [TS]

01:16:25   house they're just kind of standing [TS]

01:16:26   there on your porch just looking at you [TS]

01:16:29   just without effect [TS]

01:16:31   they're not scared they're not happy [TS]

01:16:32   there anything just there like they're [TS]

01:16:33   just there [TS]

01:16:34   yea is my house smiles to nobody yeah [TS]

01:16:36   just wanted you to know that we're here [TS]

01:16:37   and uh like you do with the crows that's [TS]

01:16:40   right for the crew move on you i'm here [TS]

01:16:43   i see you i'm here like John I see you [TS]

01:16:46   John [TS]

01:16:46   Oh [TS]

01:16:48   well time [TS]

01:16:52   o God Almighty [TS]