Roderick on the Line

Ep. 159: "The Climbing"


00:00:00   this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

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00:00:21   Squarespace build it beautiful [TS]

00:00:27   hello hi John [TS]

00:00:31   hi Merlin how's it going but you're [TS]

00:00:34   using your public radio voice John i'm [TS]

00:00:36   using my public radio voice boom [TS]

00:00:42   you can hear it i think i first heard [TS]

00:00:47   Ira Glass discuss the way that on public [TS]

00:00:50   radio you speak in this tone and [TS]

00:00:53   occasionally emphasize a strange word up [TS]

00:00:58   his you know because he's got the [TS]

00:01:00   hourglass ways but then he does the the [TS]

00:01:02   like you know all things considered [TS]

00:01:03   voice yeah where something like every [TS]

00:01:05   third word is emphasized for reasons [TS]

00:01:08   that are not entirely clear a strange [TS]

00:01:11   game [TS]

00:01:12   dr. Walton the only winning move is not [TS]

00:01:16   to play [TS]

00:01:17   I'm Robert Siegel where we do we kid [TS]

00:01:25   don't we [TS]

00:01:26   yeah this is a guy i like them I like [TS]

00:01:28   the way you're using into this episode [TS]

00:01:30   it's just feels chill i was it just your [TS]

00:01:34   year chill i feel pretty chill maybe we [TS]

00:01:37   should try to do the whole episode this [TS]

00:01:39   way just to think that we have that a [TS]

00:01:42   move that much children our children's [TS]

00:01:45   ER whar's like a gentleman like as you [TS]

00:01:49   do it as you do [TS]

00:01:51   oh my god entire I just karma tired are [TS]

00:01:56   you [TS]

00:01:56   I am I just it's a roof boring point [TS]

00:02:00   weekend no idea how happy fathers day [TS]

00:02:02   yeah thanks my father's day a my kid [TS]

00:02:07   just dissed me all day [TS]

00:02:09   that's so it's just like I had to harken [TS]

00:02:13   back I'm sure to all the all the fathers [TS]

00:02:15   days that I mean you know I think I was [TS]

00:02:17   a pretty dutiful kid about that stuff [TS]

00:02:19   like if it was fathers day I i [TS]

00:02:22   understood that my job was to celebrate [TS]

00:02:25   Father's Day which to the cherry face so [TS]

00:02:30   I you know I fell on my sword a lot as a [TS]

00:02:32   kid in order to grease the wheels make [TS]

00:02:36   the Machine keep running smoothly [TS]

00:02:39   uh-huh I wasn't somebody that you know [TS]

00:02:40   my sister would stand there on your [TS]

00:02:42   birthday and just tell you exactly what [TS]

00:02:45   she thought about yeah but I wasn't that [TS]

00:02:48   kind of guy on your birthday I [TS]

00:02:49   understood that the expectation was that [TS]

00:02:51   this was your special day [TS]

00:02:54   yeah i think also it was partly days we [TS]

00:02:56   were coming up in where people didn't [TS]

00:02:59   respect their parents like they're [TS]

00:03:00   supposed to but it was still like one of [TS]

00:03:03   the days that you were supposed to act [TS]

00:03:05   like it was the fifties even think [TS]

00:03:06   that's right thanks giving a valentine's [TS]

00:03:10   day even you're just supposed to you're [TS]

00:03:13   supposed to shape up and spit comb your [TS]

00:03:15   hair huh be a good kid for a day you [TS]

00:03:18   bring your father slippers and if he [TS]

00:03:19   doesn't have slippers she makes them out [TS]

00:03:21   of paper [TS]

00:03:22   I got a great team and my family killed [TS]

00:03:26   it i did not deserve any of it but it [TS]

00:03:28   was well nice you know they-they-they [TS]

00:03:30   adore you and and rightfully so [TS]

00:03:32   yeah well it was good because I mean [TS]

00:03:34   either too big bangers for for father's [TS]

00:03:37   day we went out to lunch at my favorite [TS]

00:03:39   restaurant which also happens to be my [TS]

00:03:40   father's for me out my daughter's [TS]

00:03:42   favorite restaurant really any order [TS]

00:03:43   bangers my head bangers and mash [TS]

00:03:45   governor and and i gotta-i gotta [TS]

00:03:48   Father's Day present which like many the [TS]

00:03:50   presence that I get and enjoy it was a [TS]

00:03:52   kind of for the house [TS]

00:03:53   oh sure but they're so yeah a big roll [TS]

00:03:57   of tape request that I find a real job a [TS]

00:04:00   good that the pages of more post-it [TS]

00:04:04   notes where you're running out now you [TS]

00:04:08   know what anything that I by the like [TS]

00:04:10   States slake my thirst for all of my [TS]

00:04:13   former passions in life now go directly [TS]

00:04:15   my daughter if I go out if I got flax [TS]

00:04:17   and about eighty dollars worth of pet [TS]

00:04:20   office supplies they just disappear just [TS]

00:04:22   going day I set him down on the table [TS]

00:04:24   for a minute and then they're just going [TS]

00:04:25   and then there's one drawing of a dog in [TS]

00:04:27   every notebook and they're all just all [TS]

00:04:29   over her room i got a boy you talk about [TS]

00:04:33   that technology is boring i'm not gonna [TS]

00:04:35   become this guy but I got a really good [TS]

00:04:37   morning you know what you're familiar [TS]

00:04:38   with the [TS]

00:04:39   the term sous-vide you with that we're [TS]

00:04:42   cooking [TS]

00:04:42   where where where right by our I got [TS]

00:04:46   this [TS]

00:04:47   sous-vide thing that you can you attach [TS]

00:04:49   it to a pot it looks like a big [TS]

00:04:50   lightsaber and it anything you put your [TS]

00:04:52   food in a bag in the air out and it [TS]

00:04:55   cooks it flawlessly flawlessly [TS]

00:04:58   this is something you should look at you [TS]

00:05:00   put a stake in a bag you drop it in this [TS]

00:05:02   water you see make this a hundred 29 [TS]

00:05:04   degrees exactly hundred twenty degrees [TS]

00:05:06   perfectly cooked and you have to do [TS]

00:05:08   anything you don't have to do it on the [TS]

00:05:10   stove since you just plug it in [TS]

00:05:11   somewhere [TS]

00:05:12   what color is it though that the the [TS]

00:05:14   food [TS]

00:05:15   yeah okay I can't imagine boiling it in [TS]

00:05:18   a bag is some kind of like delicious [TS]

00:05:20   gives it a nice like crusty no no but [TS]

00:05:23   what you do is you you doing the [TS]

00:05:25   sous-vide it takes an hour hour and a [TS]

00:05:27   half and take it out and the thing is if [TS]

00:05:30   you feel like it for two hours it [TS]

00:05:31   wouldn't cook more because it stops at [TS]

00:05:33   the temperature you tell it it's really [TS]

00:05:34   cool and then you sear it on the on the [TS]

00:05:37   range or power you like it [TS]

00:05:38   IC seem so there's a second step third [TS]

00:05:42   step or whatever you then you then sear [TS]

00:05:44   it you want to see her otherwise it's [TS]

00:05:46   kinda like a boiled egg [TS]

00:05:48   well not everyone's still delicious and [TS]

00:05:50   you can you can do stuff to anyway I was [TS]

00:05:51   very excited because i really wanted [TS]

00:05:52   that it's not going to what about for [TS]

00:05:54   myself but now I've already as I've seen [TS]

00:05:56   all the things [TS]

00:05:58   yeah everybody's gonna be huh yep and we [TS]

00:06:01   went to that brazilian steak place I [TS]

00:06:03   like fur for lunch so we didn't we [TS]

00:06:05   didn't really need more meat but look at [TS]

00:06:08   day [TS]

00:06:09   well glad you had a good day yeah but [TS]

00:06:12   your kid was dissing you [TS]

00:06:13   oh yeah well and you know as you as you [TS]

00:06:16   said at the beginning of this episode [TS]

00:06:17   all of five and a half minutes ago over [TS]

00:06:22   um it's minutes after the hour [TS]

00:06:25   I'm all his tired and I don't know what [TS]

00:06:29   to do about it i think that you know I [TS]

00:06:30   think that did you see that did you see [TS]

00:06:32   the getty air who died the other day in [TS]

00:06:35   his in his Hollywood mansion know you [TS]

00:06:40   know one of the Gettys one of the one of [TS]

00:06:43   the grandsons of jay paul Getty or the [TS]

00:06:45   great grandsons and they're all riches [TS]

00:06:49   sin and some of them have done things [TS]

00:06:50   like start [TS]

00:06:51   a photo sharing companies and some of [TS]

00:06:56   them just sort of sit around and do [TS]

00:06:58   methamphetamines and this getty air i [TS]

00:07:01   think is about our age [TS]

00:07:03   yeah and he died mysteriously but but [TS]

00:07:06   also not mysteriously because he was he [TS]

00:07:09   had a toxic level of meth in his body [TS]

00:07:12   man and and yet you know I don't think [TS]

00:07:16   Mikey od'd as much as it just all caught [TS]

00:07:19   up with them [TS]

00:07:20   intestinal hemorrhage intestinal camera [TS]

00:07:23   driver huh [TS]

00:07:24   but you realize like there's that [TS]

00:07:30   there's one version of being tired all [TS]

00:07:32   the time that you try to counteract with [TS]

00:07:35   go fast pills and I know a lot of people [TS]

00:07:39   get addicted to various kinds of speed [TS]

00:07:45   because they just need that just a [TS]

00:07:48   little bit of like come on just you know [TS]

00:07:50   like I often feel like I was made by us [TS]

00:07:56   somewhat neglectful craftsman who did [TS]

00:08:01   not [TS]

00:08:02   carburetor me quite correctly and [TS]

00:08:06   there's a there's some turbo lag in [TS]

00:08:10   because i am a turbo model but it's sort [TS]

00:08:13   of an early turbo it takes awhile to [TS]

00:08:15   spool up and then all of a sudden it's [TS]

00:08:16   there [TS]

00:08:17   the powers they're better at this and I [TS]

00:08:20   just I keep thinking that what i need is [TS]

00:08:22   like a little shot of of you know [TS]

00:08:25   carburetor those little shot of like [TS]

00:08:28   ether in my carbs huh [TS]

00:08:31   every day just to get going at a normal [TS]

00:08:35   level not to be as übermensch not to go [TS]

00:08:40   like disco dancing but just a little [TS]

00:08:44   thing that like would just get me over [TS]

00:08:48   the hump right ticket your engine [TS]

00:08:50   started [TS]

00:08:50   yeah and caught you know coffee sort of [TS]

00:08:52   doesn't quite perform this role and and [TS]

00:08:58   because i am a man on drug user [TS]

00:09:01   I'm fortunate enough not to be able to [TS]

00:09:04   consider [TS]

00:09:05   they're all the many different options [TS]

00:09:06   of super person drugs that all the other [TS]

00:09:11   people in the world resort to so i just [TS]

00:09:14   have to sit and think that I i keep [TS]

00:09:18   considering this one post-it note that's [TS]

00:09:20   now yellowed around the edges that says [TS]

00:09:24   eat less eat better and exercise [TS]

00:09:26   oh yeah and meditate and I look at that [TS]

00:09:29   post-it note every day and I go yeah [TS]

00:09:30   yeah yeah yeah but isn't there something [TS]

00:09:33   isn't her vitamin b12 shot or something [TS]

00:09:35   and you imagine if you were rich person [TS]

00:09:37   if you were if you were a rich person [TS]

00:09:39   who felt like Barry that their [TS]

00:09:43   contribution was crucial right i mean if [TS]

00:09:46   you're a getty air you probably imagine [TS]

00:09:49   that your contribution to this day is is [TS]

00:09:54   highly valued it's more important than [TS]

00:09:56   average person's contribution even just [TS]

00:09:59   like all the day-to-day like accounts [TS]

00:10:01   and correspondents kind of me i'm going [TS]

00:10:02   to me thinking that this is royalty or [TS]

00:10:03   something but just like the day-to-day [TS]

00:10:05   stuff like people going to notice if [TS]

00:10:07   you're if you're not on point [TS]

00:10:09   yeah it's like that it's like the guy in [TS]

00:10:11   the foxcatcher yeah exactly what I was [TS]

00:10:14   just thinking that has John husband [TS]

00:10:15   called him Fox wrestler [TS]

00:10:17   oh uh weird movie [TS]

00:10:20   yeah a little fox wrestler guy and you [TS]

00:10:22   know here's this guy who's who's [TS]

00:10:24   obviously very troubled and not even one [TS]

00:10:26   hundred percent all marbles accounted [TS]

00:10:29   for but he's got he's got 15 people [TS]

00:10:34   working for him and his daily [TS]

00:10:35   correspondence is being catalog [TS]

00:10:37   somewhere so anyway eat let's eat better [TS]

00:10:41   exercise meditate but but last night I [TS]

00:10:45   had a root beer float which is the [TS]

00:10:49   opposite of eat better exercise and [TS]

00:10:51   meditate although there's a meditative [TS]

00:10:53   quality to a root beer float dommage the [TS]

00:10:55   Lord of the Rings ice I assume I've [TS]

00:10:58   started anything i'm just calling second [TS]

00:10:59   dinner so sometimes i'm out of sync [TS]

00:11:03   first of all as you know my family [TS]

00:11:05   snacks my family has never set down to [TS]

00:11:07   an actual meal they just delete things [TS]

00:11:08   out of bags all day whereas i like to [TS]

00:11:10   sit down and eat and I'm the weirdo in [TS]

00:11:12   that case sometimes i'll have like a [TS]

00:11:13   light snack like dinner with my family [TS]

00:11:15   and then mentor best friend [TS]

00:11:18   I'm thinking well don't really have time [TS]

00:11:20   to watch the rest of this wrestling [TS]

00:11:21   documentary and then I should really [TS]

00:11:23   should get to bed last night i'm a [TS]

00:11:26   corned beef hash [TS]

00:11:27   oh you and I are two birds of a feather [TS]

00:11:29   I was laying in bed i was as at [TS]

00:11:32   eleven-fifteen and we can be patched i [TS]

00:11:34   was in bed and had already gone to sleep [TS]

00:11:37   and woke up because in my dream I [TS]

00:11:43   started dreaming about the greys down [TS]

00:11:45   now and then and then dreaming bad i [TS]

00:11:49   don't remember whether I was dreaming [TS]

00:11:50   that that the possum that lives in my [TS]

00:11:53   attic wasn't a possum but was really [TS]

00:11:55   like a little gray that had just been [TS]

00:11:57   living in the attic for the last six [TS]

00:11:59   months or what it was but I started to i [TS]

00:12:02   started to dream about the greys and [TS]

00:12:04   then of course my room is populated with [TS]

00:12:06   them [TS]

00:12:07   beeping at me from behind things and so [TS]

00:12:10   I woke up out of a dead sleep and i was [TS]

00:12:14   like huh it was about 12 30 because now [TS]

00:12:17   i am a person that goes to bed before 12 [TS]

00:12:19   30 i'm a person that goes to bed long [TS]

00:12:21   enough for 1230 that i can go to sleep [TS]

00:12:23   have a dream about the greys and still [TS]

00:12:25   wake up by twelve-thirty well that's the [TS]

00:12:27   worst and so I went downstairs and I ate [TS]

00:12:30   a hot link and like half a pound of [TS]

00:12:34   brisket and did a crossword puzzle and [TS]

00:12:39   then by 1 30 i mean i can tell you [TS]

00:12:41   that's the best way to get back to sleep [TS]

00:12:43   appleone brisket I was like full of hot [TS]

00:12:46   link and brisket and halfway through the [TS]

00:12:50   sunday crossword puzzles i was like what [TS]

00:12:52   am i doing [TS]

00:12:53   Jesus Christ there aren't Gray's living [TS]

00:12:55   in your attic go back to sleep and so I [TS]

00:12:58   went back to sleep full of that food and [TS]

00:13:00   now here I am talking to you and you [TS]

00:13:02   talking to me and we are both still full [TS]

00:13:04   of that food i presume [TS]

00:13:06   oh no this is your you you're absolutely [TS]

00:13:09   dead on i mean i made so another dingus [TS]

00:13:12   that we have in the kitchen that we like [TS]

00:13:13   to use is this like a slow cooker and [TS]

00:13:15   mrs. so you put in you by E by the giant [TS]

00:13:18   corn beef in a bag comes with a little [TS]

00:13:20   you know grinding or whatever comes in a [TS]

00:13:22   little it's got a little thing with the [TS]

00:13:23   seeds and stuff you put that in all you [TS]

00:13:25   do is you drop that in this pot and [TS]

00:13:27   cover with water you put the lid on and [TS]

00:13:28   cook on low for 10 hours when it comes [TS]

00:13:30   out you've got [TS]

00:13:31   a giant-ass corned beef brisket mm and [TS]

00:13:34   so that I took about half of that but [TS]

00:13:37   probably about at least at least two [TS]

00:13:40   pounds of cooked brisket I i cooked in a [TS]

00:13:43   giant giant panda thought to myself this [TS]

00:13:44   is great [TS]

00:13:45   I'll have corned beef four days four [TS]

00:13:47   days you get this if that the guy I was [TS]

00:13:50   thinking I should have used a larger pan [TS]

00:13:52   we don't have a larger pan we need a [TS]

00:13:53   larger pan to accommodate the amount of [TS]

00:13:55   corned beef i'm making it i'm going to [TS]

00:13:57   enjoy for it [TS]

00:13:58   probably the one week's time after I was [TS]

00:14:02   done with my seconds on second dinner I [TS]

00:14:06   i had about Z filled half of a quart [TS]

00:14:09   ziploc bag all gone [TS]

00:14:12   yeah yeah what I i was thinking about [TS]

00:14:15   this the other day that that the one [TS]

00:14:17   thing that people of all races creeds [TS]

00:14:19   religions and nationalities the one [TS]

00:14:22   thing that would bring peace to the [TS]

00:14:25   world is if you just gathered all the [TS]

00:14:29   Warriors together and introduce the [TS]

00:14:31   topic how do you best cook a brisket [TS]

00:14:33   because cooking a brisket is a thing [TS]

00:14:37   that I can't think of a single culture [TS]

00:14:39   that doesn't have an opinion about [TS]

00:14:41   cooking a brisket right I guess except [TS]

00:14:43   for hindus hindus probably aren't going [TS]

00:14:47   to join in that conversation but you [TS]

00:14:48   know but they have an opinion which is [TS]

00:14:50   to not do it to not do it right but I [TS]

00:14:52   mean think about what about you put [TS]

00:14:53   everybody together in room and they're [TS]

00:14:55   all mad and they're all da and then it's [TS]

00:14:58   like wait a minute there's that we have [TS]

00:14:59   a brisket here that needs cooking and [TS]

00:15:02   didn't feel quite a lot of contentious [TS]

00:15:04   discussion about how to cook it but i [TS]

00:15:07   think what you do in that case is you [TS]

00:15:08   bring out a whole bunch of briskets and [TS]

00:15:11   you say you know what let's let's [TS]

00:15:12   everybody cooked their brisket the way [TS]

00:15:14   they you know we'll get all the [TS]

00:15:16   resources here everybody gets that gets [TS]

00:15:18   their different style of of cooker and [TS]

00:15:22   seasoning and you get a couple of [TS]

00:15:24   assistants and then everybody cooks [TS]

00:15:25   their brisket by that point the what [TS]

00:15:27   everybody was mad about it would fade in [TS]

00:15:31   fade like it's like Top Chef meets [TS]

00:15:32   McLaughlin group you get everybody [TS]

00:15:34   together and we're all gonna every every [TS]

00:15:36   week we're going to cook some kind of [TS]

00:15:38   food and you make it the way that you [TS]

00:15:40   make it you make it the way you make who [TS]

00:15:42   and then we and then we all share it and [TS]

00:15:44   have a big meal together but you know [TS]

00:15:45   the thing is it has i think it has to be [TS]

00:15:47   a brisket because the brisket is the you [TS]

00:15:50   know the brisket is the hub of the food [TS]

00:15:52   wheel right i mean more than one [TS]

00:15:55   potatoes [TS]

00:15:56   yeah i mean what ever you ever have a [TS]

00:15:58   lab like a potato in chinese food good [TS]

00:16:04   point right but but you're gonna find [TS]

00:16:06   some equivalent of a brisket LOL [TS]

00:16:09   absolutely the guy like a clay pot or [TS]

00:16:11   something like that [TS]

00:16:11   yeah uh-huh so you so I think the [TS]

00:16:15   brisket is the because one is what it [TS]

00:16:16   was a brisket it's like a tough [TS]

00:16:18   unlovable piece of meat that everybody [TS]

00:16:20   has figured out in their various [TS]

00:16:21   cultures much less different ways to [TS]

00:16:24   soften and palatable some of it with [TS]

00:16:29   sugary saw some of it with long slow see [TS]

00:16:32   this is make it past the piece I'm [TS]

00:16:34   saying brisket is a path to peace [TS]

00:16:36   hmm damn Benjamin said something that i [TS]

00:16:41   agree with aah [TS]

00:16:43   we have evidence for once he says he [TS]

00:16:45   says coffee for him the first cup of [TS]

00:16:47   coffee gives him just enough energy to [TS]

00:16:49   make the second cup of coffee [TS]

00:16:51   well right but you know I get to that [TS]

00:16:53   second cup of coffee feeling good and [TS]

00:16:54   then like tip over into the third cup of [TS]

00:16:57   coffee and I need a nap [TS]

00:16:59   the animal and this is the problem with [TS]

00:17:01   post-it note is that you're right [TS]

00:17:03   all of our options have been exhausted [TS]

00:17:05   except for the obvious and correct one [TS]

00:17:07   yeah which is that it's like here's [TS]

00:17:09   here's here's what here's what you're [TS]

00:17:10   facing as you as you are as you walk [TS]

00:17:14   slowly trudged in your slippers toward [TS]

00:17:16   50 is that you know you gotta do all [TS]

00:17:18   those things got quit everything you [TS]

00:17:19   know you gotta start you guys are eating [TS]

00:17:21   like a normal person you gotta exercise [TS]

00:17:22   sleep [TS]

00:17:23   basically you have to change your entire [TS]

00:17:25   life into a series of extremely dull [TS]

00:17:28   consistencies in order to achieve a [TS]

00:17:30   baseline level of normal energy and if [TS]

00:17:33   you do any of those things wrong you're [TS]

00:17:34   just gonna die now you know I I realized [TS]

00:17:38   something about being in your teens and [TS]

00:17:40   twenties a long time ago I may have even [TS]

00:17:41   realized it when I was still in my [TS]

00:17:43   twenties but that is that in your teens [TS]

00:17:46   and twenties you are afforded several [TS]

00:17:49   opportunities to glimpse not just [TS]

00:17:53   glimpse but but for a brief period [TS]

00:17:55   actually [TS]

00:17:56   experience the feeling of having [TS]

00:17:59   achieved some level of transcendence or [TS]

00:18:04   enlightenment you know when you are [TS]

00:18:07   young [TS]

00:18:08   uh-huh for whatever reason the book the [TS]

00:18:11   course of life of Ford's you these brief [TS]

00:18:14   shining explosive moments of either like [TS]

00:18:19   heightened consciousness tremendous [TS]

00:18:22   revelation like physical sort of [TS]

00:18:26   completeness or you know like an editor [TS]

00:18:31   and the first time that you do certain [TS]

00:18:33   kinds of drugs the first time you have [TS]

00:18:35   certain kinds of athletic experiences [TS]

00:18:37   the first time you have certain kinds of [TS]

00:18:39   sexual experiences you are given a [TS]

00:18:41   glimpse through the cloud of what it is [TS]

00:18:46   not just to see it but what is really [TS]

00:18:48   like to live somewhere way up the ladder [TS]

00:18:51   and so you then make the mistake of [TS]

00:18:56   thinking that it was that it was that [TS]

00:18:59   set of conditions or that particular [TS]

00:19:01   experience and you keep going back and [TS]

00:19:03   trying to duplicate that experience to [TS]

00:19:06   get back to the it's not the experience [TS]

00:19:08   was so great but you you were you [TS]

00:19:10   arrived way up the ladder and you want [TS]

00:19:13   to get back there and the the tragic [TS]

00:19:17   lesson is that the only way to get up [TS]

00:19:19   that ladder and stay for any length of [TS]

00:19:21   time is to climate and see if the [TS]

00:19:24   climbing that releases that elation and [TS]

00:19:27   discovery [TS]

00:19:28   it's the climbing but if you weren't [TS]

00:19:30   ever you know if you were never allowed [TS]

00:19:32   that that momentary turisticos you half [TS]

00:19:38   an hour up the ladder you wouldn't know [TS]

00:19:40   it was there you wouldn't know there was [TS]

00:19:42   something to seek and so in that sense [TS]

00:19:45   it makes sense that we are given that [TS]

00:19:48   that little moment but the problem is [TS]

00:19:52   that there isn't any way to get up that [TS]

00:19:54   ladder except to climate rung by rung [TS]

00:19:56   and do the work and put in the time and [TS]

00:20:00   and and make the progress and yet most [TS]

00:20:05   of us myself included [TS]

00:20:07   you know spend [TS]

00:20:08   decades trying to figure out if there's [TS]

00:20:11   a little pill or some kind of five [TS]

00:20:15   minutes a day exercise or some sort of [TS]

00:20:18   combination of raw vegetables and no [TS]

00:20:23   gluten or just to get you know just even [TS]

00:20:28   to get up two rungs [TS]

00:20:30   uh-huh on this endless cloud ladder and [TS]

00:20:35   instead you just keep coming you just [TS]

00:20:37   you wake up every day you're at the [TS]

00:20:38   bottom of this thing and you look at [TS]

00:20:40   that yellow post-it note that says eat [TS]

00:20:42   better exercise meditate you go fucking [TS]

00:20:46   come on something somebody rock music [TS]

00:20:51   where are you [TS]

00:20:51   yeah yeah and the other thing that's a [TS]

00:20:54   yes I totally agree and there's another [TS]

00:20:55   like very obvious and yet still dawning [TS]

00:20:59   realization for me it's one of those [TS]

00:21:01   things that's been hiding in plain sight [TS]

00:21:02   for my entire life and I'm finally [TS]

00:21:04   realizing and trying to get better [TS]

00:21:06   accepting this and this will reveal that [TS]

00:21:08   I am in fact a terrible person but [TS]

00:21:10   that's part of the process of climbing [TS]

00:21:12   the two step ladder you know it's I [TS]

00:21:17   think one starts to realize the [TS]

00:21:21   limitations of living for yourself of [TS]

00:21:25   living for oneself is part of the [TS]

00:21:28   problem and this may be this ties into [TS]

00:21:30   one of those ericsson stages of [TS]

00:21:31   development or something but but you [TS]

00:21:33   know as you start to think about all of [TS]

00:21:35   the things that are difficult and it's [TS]

00:21:38   you know I don't know for some reason is [TS]

00:21:40   going through my mind yesterday when we [TS]

00:21:42   stop by safeway and the the Giants [TS]

00:21:44   safely in the castro and why I had to [TS]

00:21:46   exercise some serious keep moving and [TS]

00:21:48   get out of the way with my kid because [TS]

00:21:49   there are dozens and dozens of people in [TS]

00:21:52   their twenties and thirties running [TS]

00:21:54   around with bottles of wine look [TS]

00:21:55   incredibly stressed out and I was saying [TS]

00:21:57   honey you've got to move out of these [TS]

00:21:59   were these people's way they are young [TS]

00:22:01   and they want to get to a party and they [TS]

00:22:02   will kill you because nothing there [TS]

00:22:05   there there's such serious social [TS]

00:22:08   activity self-focused social activity [TS]

00:22:11   going on [TS]

00:22:12   ironically enough and I was actually [TS]

00:22:14   thinking like first of all I just find [TS]

00:22:15   young people insufferable so much of the [TS]

00:22:18   time now it's really weird I I feel like [TS]

00:22:20   I when I'm not just really an old man [TS]

00:22:22   I'm an old man who finds a lot of lot of [TS]

00:22:23   young people insufferable because [TS]

00:22:25   there's such as such a a joyful level of [TS]

00:22:29   self involvement and I you know so [TS]

00:22:31   anyway you can of course said that two [TS]

00:22:33   of two million ways of trying to [TS]

00:22:34   understand the world but you know when [TS]

00:22:36   you look at something like that I hate [TS]

00:22:37   to say this but you look at the exercise [TS]

00:22:40   more eat better get sleep meditate all [TS]

00:22:42   that kind of stuff posted notes in your [TS]

00:22:43   life and you say that's that's really [TS]

00:22:45   boring and not that fun especially if [TS]

00:22:49   it's for you because for you for me [TS]

00:22:52   we want the pill we want the the glass [TS]

00:22:54   of something or the mug of something or [TS]

00:22:56   the you know or the or the cyborg [TS]

00:22:58   attachment that will they allow me to [TS]

00:22:59   have some kind of like meaningful level [TS]

00:23:01   of energy [TS]

00:23:02   it's when you start thinking though you [TS]

00:23:05   know what I have to really not take care [TS]

00:23:09   of other people but i have to do stuff [TS]

00:23:10   for other people not not like a grudging [TS]

00:23:13   way but in like this is really this is [TS]

00:23:15   who we all are [TS]

00:23:16   this is we all have been it's just that [TS]

00:23:18   in America especially if you're a white [TS]

00:23:20   dude maybe you got a little bit of money [TS]

00:23:22   it you can keep living in that land of I [TS]

00:23:26   just do stuff for me for a really long [TS]

00:23:28   time and pretty soon you're that 70 year [TS]

00:23:31   old guy who's dating the 20 year old [TS]

00:23:33   woman and thinking this is really still [TS]

00:23:34   going great but you know it's something [TS]

00:23:37   that's it's something i'm having a it's [TS]

00:23:39   just purely selfish it's purely selfish [TS]

00:23:41   because I've always thought of myself as [TS]

00:23:42   well sure I'm great I love other people [TS]

00:23:44   but like when you actually have to do [TS]

00:23:46   that and you have to start changing the [TS]

00:23:47   way that you do stuff in order to [TS]

00:23:49   accommodate that change in your life for [TS]

00:23:51   that realization then everything takes [TS]

00:23:53   on a whole different tone now it's like [TS]

00:23:54   well i am doing this because because [TS]

00:23:57   this is what other people need out of me [TS]

00:23:58   and it doesn't make it any better it it [TS]

00:24:02   certainly doesn't make it more fun but [TS]

00:24:04   like I guess getting the point we really [TS]

00:24:05   except that is a big part of growing up [TS]

00:24:08   really really growing up which is a [TS]

00:24:10   piece that is still not completed i [TS]

00:24:12   would say i would still just love to [TS]

00:24:14   have a bunch of speed in the morning and [TS]

00:24:15   then just run around but like that's not [TS]

00:24:17   going to get stuff accomplished for the [TS]

00:24:18   stuff that I need to do ya boy the the I [TS]

00:24:23   made a list the other day of the things [TS]

00:24:25   that I needed to do because not having a [TS]

00:24:28   list meant that those things just kept [TS]

00:24:30   I would be I'd be sitting in a state of [TS]

00:24:32   you know kind of like momentary relaxed [TS]

00:24:37   reflection and all of a sudden the [TS]

00:24:40   kool-aid man would bash down the door [TS]

00:24:42   and go oh yeah you're vespers need [TS]

00:24:45   repairing got my Vespas I haven't [TS]

00:24:49   thought about my vestments in six months [TS]

00:24:51   and I'm time i got i'm doing another [TS]

00:24:53   thing right now [TS]

00:24:54   oh yeah oh yeah I know you haven't [TS]

00:24:56   thought of it that's why I just broke [TS]

00:24:57   your wall [TS]

00:24:58   oh yeah your water pressures low gotta [TS]

00:25:01   call a plumber and I'm like water [TS]

00:25:04   pressure like I'm like yes for the last [TS]

00:25:08   two years i have thought to myself I [TS]

00:25:09   should call a plumber and get my water [TS]

00:25:11   pressure a looked at but that is not a [TS]

00:25:14   thing that i want to interrupt me right [TS]

00:25:16   now [TS]

00:25:17   oh yeah your barn is gonna collapse and [TS]

00:25:22   this kool-aid man just keeps fucking [TS]

00:25:24   crashing into my into my reverie and I [TS]

00:25:27   don't have very much time anymore to sit [TS]

00:25:29   and just like be at peace and so you [TS]

00:25:34   know anxiety breathes anxiety or [TS]

00:25:36   something this guy it's just it's just a [TS]

00:25:38   kool-aid pitcher full of free range [TS]

00:25:41   anxiety that keeps kicking down my door [TS]

00:25:44   when I don't think we've ever been more [TS]

00:25:46   alike than we are right now [TS]

00:25:48   oh my god oh yeah we'll get it all [TS]

00:25:51   together your roots still looking great [TS]

00:25:53   looking at pictures of him right now is [TS]

00:25:56   he's a jolly pitcher of kool-aid [TS]

00:25:58   carrying another pitcher of kool-aid [TS]

00:26:01   I forgot about that that's a little [TS]

00:26:04   weird I never I guess I never thought of [TS]

00:26:06   that [TS]

00:26:06   it's a recursive home invasion little [TS]

00:26:08   but anyway so I had to make a list of [TS]

00:26:11   these things and then putting them on a [TS]

00:26:12   piece of paper at least you know it was [TS]

00:26:14   one of these lists that had like a [TS]

00:26:17   subset one subset lowercase a must also [TS]

00:26:22   must rid mother must decide if possible [TS]

00:26:25   has at babies also now also read the [TS]

00:26:28   house of positive babies [TS]

00:26:29   oh god I hate that five um mês me in [TS]

00:26:32   mice in the garage [TS]

00:26:33   oh my god I'm like I'm trying to plan my [TS]

00:26:34   daughter I'm sorry I hate putting down [TS]

00:26:36   these glue traps I know they're awful [TS]

00:26:38   but all we need is like a week and a [TS]

00:26:40   half of not noticing this and we're [TS]

00:26:41   going to be overrun with rodents you [TS]

00:26:43   yeah on the road and thought goes [TS]

00:26:45   through my head [TS]

00:26:46   what about dry right after that after [TS]

00:26:48   that that awful thing with the balcony [TS]

00:26:50   broke off and berkeley objects we've got [TS]

00:26:52   two major dry rot spots in my house and [TS]

00:26:54   like everybody's coming out the woodwork [TS]

00:26:55   all the engineers you know hopefully [TS]

00:26:57   commando yeah there's like three [TS]

00:26:58   different problems with that like that [TS]

00:27:00   was not properly vented that's dry rot [TS]

00:27:01   is too much moisture right there that's [TS]

00:27:03   oh yeah that's that's a classic [TS]

00:27:04   engineering problem and I like I'm I [TS]

00:27:05   spend so much of my time thinking I [TS]

00:27:07   wonder which classic engineering [TS]

00:27:08   problems gonna get me something LOL guy [TS]

00:27:12   that would have been a five-dollar [TS]

00:27:13   repair don't get a new bolt in there 19 [TS]

00:27:15   new house [TS]

00:27:16   general remember when the guy said that [TS]

00:27:18   your car needed new bushings and you [TS]

00:27:19   said bushings every my timing belt [TS]

00:27:22   my wife said you know really really need [TS]

00:27:26   to get that time about like that now [TS]

00:27:27   it's like it'll be fine Jerry would tell [TS]

00:27:29   us it was that important actually Jerry [TS]

00:27:31   just told us it's extremely important [TS]

00:27:33   and I was 750 dollars i keep realizing [TS]

00:27:38   that you know every day we're all [TS]

00:27:40   hurdling at 70 + miles an hour down the [TS]

00:27:44   road in cars that we all are failing to [TS]

00:27:49   maintain properly like and it's just [TS]

00:27:51   everytime i see a car that is over two [TS]

00:27:55   years old that's driving along in the [TS]

00:27:57   lane next to me your foot like how long [TS]

00:28:01   before the tie rods fail on that car [TS]

00:28:04   like how long before there's just some [TS]

00:28:06   catastrophic out like hearing blowout [TS]

00:28:09   you guys have I'm sure you must have an [TS]

00:28:11   emissions test up there right at those [TS]

00:28:13   you know I get and like you think about [TS]

00:28:15   how many people go and they like failing [TS]

00:28:17   emissions test and you're like oh my god [TS]

00:28:19   like how many more things are horribly [TS]

00:28:21   wrong with this thing [TS]

00:28:22   how many things like especially now [TS]

00:28:23   today let's be honest it's not like the [TS]

00:28:25   seventies in the seventies you kind of [TS]

00:28:26   had to have your car in the garage a few [TS]

00:28:28   times a year just because cars was good [TS]

00:28:30   and now you don't have to think about it [TS]

00:28:32   you know you just don't you just drive [TS]

00:28:34   around in this deathtrap [TS]

00:28:35   I you know I'm i miss the the roads [TS]

00:28:40   being full of old like crappy cars [TS]

00:28:47   uh-huh and and the fact that all cars [TS]

00:28:50   kind of look the same now is concealing [TS]

00:28:52   the fact that there are a lot of old [TS]

00:28:54   crappy cars on the road [TS]

00:28:55   it's just that you can't tell you mean [TS]

00:28:57   like it used to be in the eighties that [TS]

00:29:00   if you saw a 54 Chevy that wasn't really [TS]

00:29:04   pristine you knew it was an old crappy [TS]

00:29:07   car and to give it a wide berth you [TS]

00:29:10   swingers and comments and Ltd's and I [TS]

00:29:13   think about even ladies in the late [TS]

00:29:15   eighties I had in late 1980s 1988 i was [TS]

00:29:19   driving a 1973 w camper my girlfriend [TS]

00:29:25   because that year my girlfriend had like [TS]

00:29:27   a like a 75 ltd her dad wanted to have a [TS]

00:29:31   big safe car everybody I knew my friend [TS]

00:29:34   Sam was driving a 66 swinger like it [TS]

00:29:37   even then you would have you just see 20 [TS]

00:29:39   year old cars on the road it was not [TS]

00:29:40   weird [TS]

00:29:41   I i did a girl that you drove a 64 [TS]

00:29:44   Studebaker and then a the next girl I [TS]

00:29:47   dated had a like a wasn't like a 62 and [TS]

00:29:56   it was a it was like the the little [TS]

00:29:58   eldorado it was the Cadillac no no I'm [TS]

00:30:03   sorry el dorado one of my LOL camino it [TS]

00:30:06   was the little L committed but it was [TS]

00:30:07   the forward it was the little it was you [TS]

00:30:10   know based on a comment [TS]

00:30:11   what am I trying to say here i'm just [TS]

00:30:16   having a total car brain fart which [TS]

00:30:18   never happens to me it was the little [TS]

00:30:21   the little 62 wagon being a little more [TS]

00:30:26   like a station wagon [TS]

00:30:27   no not a station wagon it was that it [TS]

00:30:29   was that it was the El Camino who but [TS]

00:30:31   you know the little like truck bed but a [TS]

00:30:34   little short short that in its short bed [TS]

00:30:36   and some somebody's listening to this [TS]

00:30:37   program and they're just they're just [TS]

00:30:39   disgusted with me because I'm not as you [TS]

00:30:41   hang up you think of it yeah but anyway [TS]

00:30:43   yeah right and they were you know they [TS]

00:30:45   were just already cars they bought for [TS]

00:30:46   250 bucks the thing is that there are 20 [TS]

00:30:49   year old cars on the road right now but [TS]

00:30:50   they just look like contemporary cars to [TS]

00:30:52   me because my I just sees that then they [TS]

00:30:55   all look like pregnant purposes and so [TS]

00:30:59   it's just like oh there's a blob of [TS]

00:31:01   metal there's a blob of metal that was [TS]

00:31:03   dirtier that you notice i think you [TS]

00:31:04   noticed the Delta more now that more and [TS]

00:31:06   more people have cars i don't know it's [TS]

00:31:08   weird because we [TS]

00:31:09   the we had a 1995 volkswagen until last [TS]

00:31:11   year it was fine mostly you know we was [TS]

00:31:15   not in great condition but like it felt [TS]

00:31:18   like such a relic maybe because I live [TS]

00:31:20   in San Francisco people are rich but [TS]

00:31:21   like I felt like I felt like a real [TS]

00:31:23   beater [TS]

00:31:24   no you don't you don't see like a [TS]

00:31:26   30-year old car on the road that much [TS]

00:31:27   anymore unless it's like real cherry [TS]

00:31:29   well yeah but the thing is like a 94 [TS]

00:31:33   volkswagen InFocus wagons all kind of [TS]

00:31:35   look a little old right but I've got a [TS]

00:31:38   94 lexus overall you talking about the [TS]

00:31:41   ones that look like like tylenol yeah [TS]

00:31:43   right if you saw nothing in the [TS]

00:31:45   mid-eighties in the mid-eighties all the [TS]

00:31:46   car started looking like look at like a [TS]

00:31:48   like a vitamin exactly that 1984 [TS]

00:31:51   Thunderbird was kind of watershed moment [TS]

00:31:54   yeah yeah 84 thunderbird looks like look [TS]

00:31:56   like a lozenge and from that point on if [TS]

00:31:59   you take you if you go right now and you [TS]

00:32:01   look up 84 thunderbird and then you look [TS]

00:32:05   at 94 lexus right you will see the you [TS]

00:32:10   will see that the one is modeled after [TS]

00:32:12   the other and then every subsequent car [TS]

00:32:15   kinda just looks like a like a newer [TS]

00:32:18   iteration like if you look at a 2014 [TS]

00:32:20   corolla right how people can tell them [TS]

00:32:22   apart they all look the same and I and I [TS]

00:32:24   and partly it is that it used to be that [TS]

00:32:28   the cars the designs changed every [TS]

00:32:30   couple of years and now if you get a [TS]

00:32:32   good if you get us like the sebring the [TS]

00:32:36   96 sebring I think that they are still [TS]

00:32:39   manufacturing it it with slightly [TS]

00:32:42   different sheet metal because because of [TS]

00:32:44   the economies of scale of like it's like [TS]

00:32:46   iphone being able to make a lot of money [TS]

00:32:47   because they can be get such good deals [TS]

00:32:49   on the same kind of part 1 s is that you [TS]

00:32:52   get the same chassis and use it over and [TS]

00:32:53   over [TS]

00:32:54   it isn't people don't people you know it [TS]

00:32:56   used to be that car design was a thing [TS]

00:32:58   that people took enormous pride in and [TS]

00:33:01   you know but i just-i I want to go back [TS]

00:33:04   in time and say like if you were gonna [TS]

00:33:07   make a car for 15 years [TS]

00:33:10   why not make the 57 Chevy for 15 years [TS]

00:33:14   why not make the galaxy 60 65 Mustang [TS]

00:33:17   yeah right why not if it means those [TS]

00:33:19   designs were great [TS]

00:33:21   we should just we should [TS]

00:33:22   be making them at some level instead of [TS]

00:33:24   still be making the student 95 sebring [TS]

00:33:28   rights like you're saying is that as if [TS]

00:33:29   you're here you're saying it's not a [TS]

00:33:30   question of like that these are the same [TS]

00:33:32   thing is that the same thing it's kind [TS]

00:33:34   of ugly symptoms come in and just not [TS]

00:33:36   you know yeah and I'm thinking about [TS]

00:33:38   like how excited people used to be when [TS]

00:33:40   the new new cars would come out it's [TS]

00:33:41   almost like the way people are now with [TS]

00:33:43   complete like iphones or or computers or [TS]

00:33:45   whatever right [TS]

00:33:46   it's like though the kind of fan [TS]

00:33:48   following the people do of electronic [TS]

00:33:51   devices today feels like it carries [TS]

00:33:53   forward from how people used to be about [TS]

00:33:54   cars but yeah the car that I'm going to [TS]

00:33:56   have for two years [TS]

00:33:56   well I remember 11 my neighbor i had [TS]

00:33:59   there's a kid down the street from me [TS]

00:34:01   named Chris kills and his dad bought a [TS]

00:34:04   new thunderbird when it when it first [TS]

00:34:10   came out and at that point in time [TS]

00:34:13   mid-eighties everybody was really into [TS]

00:34:15   german cars [TS]

00:34:17   uh-huh and you know the kind of [TS]

00:34:19   one-upsmanship of teens can in my [TS]

00:34:22   neighborhood was all about but I mean [TS]

00:34:26   obviously you had a suburban because [TS]

00:34:27   every his family had a suburban it's [TS]

00:34:29   unless they were like pores like me but [TS]

00:34:33   everybody else had a suburban at least [TS]

00:34:34   one suburban but then the other car was [TS]

00:34:36   going to be some kind of german car and [TS]

00:34:40   Chris skills is dead but bought a [TS]

00:34:42   brand-new for thunderbird and it was [TS]

00:34:44   like whoa cool car kind of the last cool [TS]

00:34:49   American car that you talk about the [TS]

00:34:51   eighties hear ya 84 and that was but I [TS]

00:34:53   mean it felt very ethicists in the same [TS]

00:34:56   way that strip malls once looked [TS]

00:34:58   extremely modern right it looked very [TS]

00:35:01   modern very like a year [TS]

00:35:03   oh it did but now that i think about it [TS]

00:35:06   when I see a 94 lexus I recognize that [TS]

00:35:08   it is an older model [TS]

00:35:11   uh-huh but I couldn't tell you whether I [TS]

00:35:14   mean I think if I saw 94 lexus drive-by [TS]

00:35:16   i would say that it was a 2006 right i [TS]

00:35:19   mean i just i have very big sense of of [TS]

00:35:23   car design in the last 30 years because [TS]

00:35:26   it's just sort of like oh yeah after the [TS]

00:35:27   after nineteen ninety it just sort of [TS]

00:35:31   all went just all went blah bueller but [TS]

00:35:37   but you'd have to take it into the shop [TS]

00:35:39   because it's just that was just the [TS]

00:35:40   thing you did [TS]

00:35:41   yeah and now today we had to get a [TS]

00:35:44   tuneup back to know that's right because [TS]

00:35:46   you didn't because they weren't chips [TS]

00:35:47   for computers telling you that tell you [TS]

00:35:49   when the car wasn't running right a [TS]

00:35:51   light never came on the only light that [TS]

00:35:53   came on was the the light that said you [TS]

00:35:55   are now on fire this episode of rock on [TS]

00:36:00   the line is brought to you by [TS]

00:36:01   Squarespace you can learn more about [TS]

00:36:03   Squarespace visiting squarespace.com it [TS]

00:36:06   set up for your free trial account there [TS]

00:36:08   guys I've been a huge fan and [TS]

00:36:10   evangelists a square space for over five [TS]

00:36:12   years now it's not only the place that I [TS]

00:36:14   use for hosting me of my own sites and [TS]

00:36:16   yes podcast including Roderick on the [TS]

00:36:18   line [TS]

00:36:18   it's also the first place that i [TS]

00:36:20   recommend for anybody wanting to do the [TS]

00:36:22   same [TS]

00:36:22   Squarespace sites are professionally [TS]

00:36:24   designed masterpieces they look great [TS]

00:36:26   right out of the box regardless of your [TS]

00:36:28   skill level because there's zero coding [TS]

00:36:30   nerdery required you have nothing to do [TS]

00:36:32   is just get your stuff up get it up [TS]

00:36:34   gorgeous intuitive easy-to-use tools it [TS]

00:36:37   takes all the pain of getting your stuff [TS]

00:36:39   up [TS]

00:36:40   Squarespace also has state-of-the-art [TS]

00:36:41   technology powering your site that [TS]

00:36:43   ensure security and stability [TS]

00:36:45   Squarespace is trusted by millions of [TS]

00:36:48   people and some of the most respected [TS]

00:36:49   brands in the world crazy part is [TS]

00:36:51   Squarespace plans start at a very [TS]

00:36:53   affordable eight dollars per month and [TS]

00:36:55   that price even includes a free domain [TS]

00:36:57   name if you sign up for a year which you [TS]

00:36:59   should totally do [TS]

00:37:01   please go check these guys out until [TS]

00:37:02   your friends about it I don't know [TS]

00:37:04   Squarespace is perfect for every single [TS]

00:37:05   person in the entire planet but I know [TS]

00:37:07   it's perfect for somebody you know if [TS]

00:37:09   you want to put up a site for a church [TS]

00:37:11   or a group or a school get out of that [TS]

00:37:13   business of having to take care of all [TS]

00:37:15   this stuff let's Squarespace do it for [TS]

00:37:16   you it's gonna make your friend's life [TS]

00:37:18   easier it's gonna make your life easier [TS]

00:37:19   it's going to get your great stuff up in [TS]

00:37:21   front of people fast and solidly solidly [TS]

00:37:24   squarespace.com and when you sign up for [TS]

00:37:28   your free account make sure to use the [TS]

00:37:29   offer code supertrain to get ten percent [TS]

00:37:31   off your first purchase [TS]

00:37:33   it's pretty good gig our thanks to [TS]

00:37:34   squarespace for supporting Roderick on [TS]

00:37:36   the line [TS]

00:37:37   Squarespace build it beautiful as I was [TS]

00:37:40   driving in today [TS]

00:37:41   I had this strange thought i was [TS]

00:37:43   listening to kxi the am radio station [TS]

00:37:46   that often sends me into a reverie and I [TS]

00:37:51   realized that they were playing the [TS]

00:37:53   music of that my father loved and it was [TS]

00:37:58   the day after father's day and I was [TS]

00:37:59   getting a little bit of little bit [TS]

00:38:00   emotional as I'm driving in listening to [TS]

00:38:04   the big band music and then I realized [TS]

00:38:06   that this isn't this isn't a real [TS]

00:38:10   profound realization but we you and I [TS]

00:38:18   have never lived without recorded music [TS]

00:38:22   and and none of our listeners have ever [TS]

00:38:25   lived a day without recorded music or [TS]

00:38:28   recorded media and so so it's easy for [TS]

00:38:34   us to not understand how new it is still [TS]

00:38:38   right but my dad was not maybe the that [TS]

00:38:48   the first generation but but but but [TS]

00:38:50   very early on in terms of a generation [TS]

00:38:53   that that understood that recorded media [TS]

00:38:55   was that their music and their the [TS]

00:39:00   things that that made up their culture [TS]

00:39:02   they could listen to over and over it [TS]

00:39:04   was recorded it it was there were [TS]

00:39:07   original recordings right when I think [TS]

00:39:10   about my dad's dad the music that he [TS]

00:39:14   loved up was from 1913 and it was all [TS]

00:39:22   sheet music it required that people play [TS]

00:39:24   it on the piano or Hank right yeah and [TS]

00:39:27   so so with just that in mind in my own [TS]

00:39:31   light in my own family's life i am only [TS]

00:39:33   the second generation in the whole [TS]

00:39:36   history of my family to have the benefit [TS]

00:39:39   of recorded music and so that means that [TS]

00:39:44   i am really the first generation that [TS]

00:39:48   has ever been able to listen to my [TS]

00:39:51   father's music after he died [TS]

00:39:53   oh right right that is you have to be [TS]

00:39:58   something repertory like you'd have to [TS]

00:39:59   go to like some kind of like lets us [TS]

00:40:02   it's susana day in the park or something [TS]

00:40:03   like that [TS]

00:40:04   yeah my dad could have sat down and [TS]

00:40:07   listened to his mother play you know [TS]

00:40:13   like el con el condor pasa or tell her [TS]

00:40:19   fat little feller with his mamie's eyes [TS]

00:40:22   or whatever song was really big in 1913 [TS]

00:40:26   up but he wouldn't have ever been able [TS]

00:40:30   to hear the music as his father heard it [TS]

00:40:33   and I can listen to the exact same [TS]

00:40:36   records that my dad heard and [TS]

00:40:41   experienced it through that that you [TS]

00:40:46   know that first membrane of of like [TS]

00:40:51   distance and and nostalgia for it i mean [TS]

00:40:55   i listen to that music sitting at his [TS]

00:40:57   feet and he was being nostalgic for his [TS]

00:41:01   youth but it was still alive [TS]

00:41:05   it was still current uh-huh and now i am [TS]

00:41:08   nostalgic for his youth and I can hear [TS]

00:41:12   what it sounded like [TS]

00:41:14   right but like we're we're got we're [TS]

00:41:16   gone into a new thing a new sort of [TS]

00:41:20   unprecedented up like iteration of [TS]

00:41:27   memory in human experience and as I was [TS]

00:41:35   as I was puttering along and thinking [TS]

00:41:38   like you know we we have when we look [TS]

00:41:42   back in time we have this like sort of [TS]

00:41:45   impermeable barrier somewhere before [TS]

00:41:51   writing was invented right where we can [TS]

00:41:54   look back it go back to Sumeria we can [TS]

00:41:57   go back to to like Egypt [TS]

00:42:03   and Etruscan civilization but at a [TS]

00:42:06   certain point you hit that wall before [TS]

00:42:08   writing and then the vast vast vast [TS]

00:42:12   majority of human history is just [TS]

00:42:14   invisible to us we can only see it [TS]

00:42:17   recorded in tools and in you know like [TS]

00:42:21   just the marks that we left on the land [TS]

00:42:23   and I feel like we've we're just now add [TS]

00:42:31   another one of those thresholds where [TS]

00:42:35   it's already difficult for us to look [TS]

00:42:39   back before recording and imagine you [TS]

00:42:46   know those people hardly left a record [TS]

00:42:49   right some paintings some books [TS]

00:42:52   obviously but not everybody was able to [TS]

00:42:55   write a book [TS]

00:42:56   the books were just a very small select [TS]

00:43:00   group of people that never wrote a book [TS]

00:43:01   now you're right all you have are the [TS]

00:43:03   day-to-day artifacts and scars yeah and [TS]

00:43:06   now and you know and a painting of [TS]

00:43:08   Napoleon at Waterloo aura or a you know [TS]

00:43:12   some some sheet music of how the music [TS]

00:43:15   was once played but now where we're [TS]

00:43:19   living just on the inside of that first [TS]

00:43:22   envelope of that first next thing where [TS]

00:43:28   everyone is recording and it's all being [TS]

00:43:31   documented and and and my dad was you [TS]

00:43:38   know he he he wasn't aware of being kind [TS]

00:43:40   of the first generation really that was [TS]

00:43:44   going to leave that behind because in a [TS]

00:43:47   way like there was already the radio [TS]

00:43:49   when he was a kid it was new but it was [TS]

00:43:55   there and and so he didn't have to make [TS]

00:43:58   the transition like his father did to [TS]

00:44:01   this thing to to a world of recorded [TS]

00:44:03   music and I I just don't know why though [TS]

00:44:08   why I keep keep churning on that in this [TS]

00:44:14   space of like all these recordings what [TS]

00:44:17   that there's something like so magical [TS]

00:44:21   about them and there's something so [TS]

00:44:23   fragile about them too and I'm listening [TS]

00:44:28   to to some record that was recorded in [TS]

00:44:31   1940 and I'm feeling it on behalf of my [TS]

00:44:36   own youth at my dad's feet and I'm [TS]

00:44:39   feeling on behalf of his youth that I [TS]

00:44:42   that I that was kind of transmitted to [TS]

00:44:44   me but but that's still new like how is [TS]

00:44:50   my daughter when she's an a middle-aged [TS]

00:44:53   woman and she hears that music then it's [TS]

00:44:57   transferred to her through three [TS]

00:44:59   generations both the music and the [TS]

00:45:02   memories and translated in garbled and [TS]

00:45:07   you know and diluted but also some [TS]

00:45:12   aspects of it intensified like and we're [TS]

00:45:15   creating a new kind of collective memory [TS]

00:45:19   in those in those weird because that [TS]

00:45:24   will be such it's such a solitary memory [TS]

00:45:26   and me it's not a thing that if I didn't [TS]

00:45:29   talk about it isn't a thing that would [TS]

00:45:30   be evident or anything i could share but [TS]

00:45:36   but it is that but there is that [TS]

00:45:37   concreteness to it it's the actual [TS]

00:45:40   original recording and and that will [TS]

00:45:44   persist right and and ten generations [TS]

00:45:47   from now there will be people who are [TS]

00:45:49   able to hear that Benny Goodman [TS]

00:45:50   recording and will that secondary Pat a [TS]

00:45:53   secondary like footnote footnoted [TS]

00:45:58   information along the way like this meat [TS]

00:46:01   music meant something to people in my [TS]

00:46:03   past I don't up i'm not sure it will if [TS]

00:46:09   ten generations from now they're also [TS]

00:46:11   listening to this podcast order [TS]

00:46:13   interacting with an AI this is the kind [TS]

00:46:16   of thing about the features actually [TS]

00:46:17   does interest me because it's so easy to [TS]

00:46:20   very quickly run up against a wall based [TS]

00:46:22   on our own imagination in the past [TS]

00:46:24   and even begin to think of souza john [TS]

00:46:27   philip sousa was was a memory serves was [TS]

00:46:30   a very strong critic of recorded music [TS]

00:46:33   one of the many people who said [TS]

00:46:35   recording music is going to put [TS]

00:46:36   musicians out of business word you know [TS]

00:46:38   there's if we want if we can't play live [TS]

00:46:41   for money anymore [TS]

00:46:42   like how would we make money we're gonna [TS]

00:46:44   make money off this you know and that [TS]

00:46:45   didn't turn out to be an evolution and [TS]

00:46:47   things change but but you're just [TS]

00:46:49   describing something in terms of like [TS]

00:46:50   back to the artifact idea so like you're [TS]

00:46:53   your father's like your people who came [TS]

00:46:55   before your father could only appreciate [TS]

00:46:57   music in the room like there had to be [TS]

00:46:59   somebody playing the music in the room [TS]

00:47:00   by the time your father came around you [TS]

00:47:02   had the ability to experience music in a [TS]

00:47:05   room but also hear it recorded but she [TS]

00:47:08   can watch it on demand it wasn't you [TS]

00:47:10   know what I mean I think about and I [TS]

00:47:12   mean even as i'm thinking of being a kid [TS]

00:47:14   and obviously you would wait for a song [TS]

00:47:16   you like to come on the radio or you [TS]

00:47:18   would spend money on a jukebox like you [TS]

00:47:20   get will go out for pizza and you gotta [TS]

00:47:22   get some quarters to put in the jukebox [TS]

00:47:23   like even then it wasn't an on-demand [TS]

00:47:26   thing or you know again think about [TS]

00:47:28   photos like you might have one photo of [TS]

00:47:31   your great-grandfather that you really [TS]

00:47:33   didn't want to lose any there was no [TS]

00:47:35   such thing as scanning at that time I [TS]

00:47:36   guess you could make a copy i'll be able [TS]

00:47:38   to do that was a kid you didn't make you [TS]

00:47:40   know I mean you have the photo and that [TS]

00:47:41   was the photo they did everything to [TS]

00:47:43   protect it and now I mean I've got [TS]

00:47:46   thousands of photos that i can look at [TS]

00:47:48   any time that I want and in this is all [TS]

00:47:50   just rehashing stuff people already are [TS]

00:47:52   aware of because you're alive right now [TS]

00:47:53   but then the question also becomes like [TS]

00:47:55   we started to talk about our kids and [TS]

00:47:57   how they'll experience this and their [TS]

00:47:58   kids [TS]

00:47:59   I mean how the whole medium of changed [TS]

00:48:00   like why I think about listen to Hank [TS]

00:48:03   Williams with my dad you know that was [TS]

00:48:05   on a track that broke by the time he [TS]

00:48:07   died I could still experience that music [TS]

00:48:10   but it didn't have that artifact and [TS]

00:48:11   yeah it wasn't like his watch it wasn't [TS]

00:48:13   like that photo it was something that [TS]

00:48:15   was easily replaceable to wear today [TS]

00:48:16   it's a funny thing now today every time [TS]

00:48:19   I daughter and I play in the backyard [TS]

00:48:20   for some reason I don't quite understand [TS]

00:48:21   we always listen Hank Williams i just [TS]

00:48:22   always put Hank Williams on me because [TS]

00:48:23   it reminds me of my dad but we will [TS]

00:48:25   listen that old wife beater that old [TS]

00:48:27   drunk in the yard and it's you know it's [TS]

00:48:29   a bit so I but the thing about this when [TS]

00:48:31   you're a kid my parents like some music [TS]

00:48:34   even with are fairly modest means [TS]

00:48:36   with our modest means music was an [TS]

00:48:39   investment so if you you would this is [TS]

00:48:41   back when you would buy something like a [TS]

00:48:43   Time Life collection of songs about you [TS]

00:48:46   know the top hits of the sixties or [TS]

00:48:47   whatever because that wasn't an [TS]

00:48:48   inexpensive way to do that and then you [TS]

00:48:50   took care of that because you had to [TS]

00:48:52   but even that is kind of a weird [TS]

00:48:53   bastardization of the way people listen [TS]

00:48:55   to music before that where you would sit [TS]

00:48:57   and listen to an opera or you would [TS]

00:48:59   listen to you know a Beethoven's fifth [TS]

00:49:02   or something [TS]

00:49:03   so party probably wondering also is like [TS]

00:49:04   how is the in the post streaming and [TS]

00:49:07   beyond age like how is the music made [TS]

00:49:09   going to be different like what kind of [TS]

00:49:12   music and when they go back and listen [TS]

00:49:13   Benny Goodman will just be a remix what [TS]

00:49:15   we would today call a remix like will [TS]

00:49:17   they ever it will they sit down and [TS]

00:49:19   listen to whatever album i don't even [TS]

00:49:21   was on an album 78 sing-sing is on you [TS]

00:49:24   know i mean the way they consume that I [TS]

00:49:25   can't even imagine how different that's [TS]

00:49:27   going to be well and I think that where [TS]

00:49:29   I keep saying in the context of of my [TS]

00:49:34   race for a the City Council that that I [TS]

00:49:38   really do feel like we are on the verge [TS]

00:49:41   of of a row revolutionary transformation [TS]

00:49:45   that we've been that we've been gearing [TS]

00:49:48   up for for the last 35 years i mean i [TS]

00:49:53   remember being in college in the early [TS]

00:49:54   nineties having a like a wave of [TS]

00:50:01   comprehension go over me as I understood [TS]

00:50:05   what the internet was going to be as i [TS]

00:50:08   understood what the promise of was was [TS]

00:50:10   meant to be and thinking like wow I get [TS]

00:50:15   it [TS]

00:50:15   the internet or the information [TS]

00:50:17   superhighway or whatever it was we were [TS]

00:50:20   calling it then like I got that it was [TS]

00:50:24   good that the connectedness of [TS]

00:50:26   everything the availability of [TS]

00:50:27   everything was what pretended this [TS]

00:50:31   amazing change and it still felt like [TS]

00:50:35   science fiction at the time like one day [TS]

00:50:38   we will all be connected [TS]

00:50:42   but it seemed like he was gonna be about [TS]

00:50:43   education and scholarship and innovation [TS]

00:50:46   in science and things like that and [TS]

00:50:48   democracy right it was that's what [TS]

00:50:50   that's what that's what that's the first [TS]

00:50:52   thing that comes to mind right [TS]

00:50:53   it's like anybody with a new technology [TS]

00:50:55   will initially gains if it gains a [TS]

00:50:56   foothold it will be through games and [TS]

00:50:59   porn [TS]

00:50:59   generally it's not actually you don't [TS]

00:51:02   need that yes just historically been [TS]

00:51:04   true since the information age but again [TS]

00:51:07   our vision for the future was [TS]

00:51:08   constrained by what happened in the past [TS]

00:51:09   right and i always i never occurred to [TS]

00:51:12   me that even in the in a world of [TS]

00:51:14   completely shared information that i [TS]

00:51:16   wouldn't sit down and listen to and a [TS]

00:51:18   record on a stereo right i mean it never [TS]

00:51:21   occurred to me that it would I until I [TS]

00:51:24   guess the mid-nineties I remember the [TS]

00:51:25   first time someone showed me a hard [TS]

00:51:27   drive and imagining that that hard drive [TS]

00:51:30   could and I should have if I was smart i [TS]

00:51:33   should have like I don't know there's a [TS]

00:51:35   million of these but you know ice [TS]

00:51:37   I i saw the i-pod a long time before the [TS]

00:51:44   ipod right i think probably a lot of us [TS]

00:51:46   did was just like wait if you can put [TS]

00:51:49   music in the computer then you could [TS]

00:51:51   also just have a and I imagined it as a [TS]

00:51:53   thing that you put in your car a hard [TS]

00:51:56   drive that slid into a slot in your car [TS]

00:51:59   dashboard and it had all the music in [TS]

00:52:01   the world on it [TS]

00:52:02   Wow right but what but what I imagine [TS]

00:52:06   that we're actually at right now the [TS]

00:52:08   place i imagine we are is still on the [TS]

00:52:12   other side of the big of the big leap [TS]

00:52:15   which is going to be this leap of VR and [TS]

00:52:22   AI and like distributed energy like [TS]

00:52:29   decentralized energy power I mean and [TS]

00:52:34   the way that people i think the way that [TS]

00:52:38   people even my daughter's generation are [TS]

00:52:40   going to receive information and [TS]

00:52:42   interact with the world is going to be [TS]

00:52:43   so different from ours [TS]

00:52:45   uh-huh that it will be effectively like [TS]

00:52:48   it's gonna feel like an evolutionary [TS]

00:52:50   leap and we've been we sci-fi people [TS]

00:52:53   have been saying this for years we've [TS]

00:52:55   been talking about this for you [TS]

00:52:56   this but I really do now feel on the [TS]

00:52:57   cusp of of this this big change where [TS]

00:53:03   the the sort of internet that we've been [TS]

00:53:07   experiencing as it's just been beta and [TS]

00:53:12   what we're testing the platform and [TS]

00:53:14   we're seeing I mean I'm astonished [TS]

00:53:16   everyday when i go on Twitter first that [TS]

00:53:20   i'm still going there and second that so [TS]

00:53:24   many millions of people are still going [TS]

00:53:27   there like all of the rewards all of the [TS]

00:53:30   serotonin rewards of Twitter from five [TS]

00:53:33   years ago are gone like twitter is no [TS]

00:53:37   longer a place of reward [TS]

00:53:40   it's you know it's often a place of like [TS]

00:53:43   pure punishment but i keep going there [TS]

00:53:46   and millions of people keep going there [TS]

00:53:48   and contributing to it and it is like [TS]

00:53:54   clearly a beta version of something that [TS]

00:53:58   we don't yet quite have the [TS]

00:54:01   interconnectivity to accomplish or you [TS]

00:54:04   know we don't quite have the vision to [TS]

00:54:07   even see what its gonna look like but [TS]

00:54:10   it's it's there like that where our toes [TS]

00:54:14   are over the line and so the idea of [TS]

00:54:18   like Benny Goodman this original [TS]

00:54:22   recording it's entirely possible that [TS]

00:54:25   you know that a future generation will [TS]

00:54:28   when that music comes up they will be [TS]

00:54:31   hearing it [TS]

00:54:32   they'll also simultaneously be hearing [TS]

00:54:35   the remixes of it and simultaneously be [TS]

00:54:38   like gorging on all the information of [TS]

00:54:45   benny goodman all the all the all the [TS]

00:54:48   data about him all the cross referencing [TS]

00:54:51   I mean they're there they access to all [TS]

00:54:54   that information they might listen to it [TS]

00:55:00   and and have [TS]

00:55:04   way more access to it than we do but in [TS]

00:55:10   a way like never have the never have the [TS]

00:55:12   whatwhat's going to be lost the the [TS]

00:55:16   emotional connection to it for the [TS]

00:55:18   personal in text [TS]

00:55:20   it'sit's the things it's also impossible [TS]

00:55:21   and I had this realization of what about [TS]

00:55:24   10 years ago now that of realizing that [TS]

00:55:27   every generation every decade really but [TS]

00:55:30   really every year every you can really [TS]

00:55:33   gauge a let's say generation but you [TS]

00:55:37   start to really gauge that generation by [TS]

00:55:39   what stopped seemed impossible in your [TS]

00:55:42   lifetime or you know I can you get down [TS]

00:55:44   to a week like what stop seemed [TS]

00:55:46   impossible this week because the and [TS]

00:55:49   then part two of that is it's virtually [TS]

00:55:51   impossible to know where or when [TS]

00:55:53   something will stop being impossible and [TS]

00:55:55   what those things are you know it [TS]

00:55:57   because that's the nature of of [TS]

00:55:59   innovation and that's the nature of [TS]

00:56:00   actual development of all kinds is that [TS]

00:56:02   like Tesla is kind of about cars but [TS]

00:56:05   it's really about batteries and once you [TS]

00:56:07   have something that can do batteries the [TS]

00:56:08   way they're doing batteries we don't [TS]

00:56:10   even know what all that's going to [TS]

00:56:11   change the who knows the way we all [TS]

00:56:13   started out looking at these fancy [TS]

00:56:14   sports cars but like that's not don't [TS]

00:56:16   think I don't follow the stuff closely [TS]

00:56:17   my sense is that that's not really what [TS]

00:56:19   this is about this is this starts out i [TS]

00:56:21   mean the iphone starts as a way to say [TS]

00:56:23   hey you know you hate your phone [TS]

00:56:24   how about you have this thing and now [TS]

00:56:25   it's gets transformed the way I live my [TS]

00:56:27   life honestly mostly for the positive i [TS]

00:56:30   mean i can't i can't imagine not being [TS]

00:56:31   able to find out like where my family is [TS]

00:56:33   or be in touch with people day-to-day [TS]

00:56:35   name whatever that's a different [TS]

00:56:36   conversation but you don't mean that [TS]

00:56:38   sense of like what what stop being [TS]

00:56:40   impossible this week [TS]

00:56:41   like if you think of it that way you [TS]

00:56:42   realize like how you know all the stuff [TS]

00:56:45   seemed like such an easy win all the [TS]

00:56:47   whatever post jetpack thinking about [TS]

00:56:49   technology it's still not what anybody [TS]

00:56:51   expected who expected in 1999 that music [TS]

00:56:54   would be the way it is now is the single [TS]

00:56:55   biggest year sales for cds right and [TS]

00:56:57   that that's what 16 years ago that's [TS]

00:56:59   like that's a blip and they're [TS]

00:57:01   completely changed [TS]

00:57:03   well and when you say post jetpack like [TS]

00:57:05   I like you and I both were raised in an [TS]

00:57:11   era where the you know the sixties worse [TS]

00:57:17   j were such a high watermark in a lot of [TS]

00:57:21   ways culturally i mean i don't mean [TS]

00:57:22   high-water like that it was all great [TS]

00:57:25   but just like it was such a service like [TS]

00:57:27   I can't believe that happened right and [TS]

00:57:29   also that and also that we almost within [TS]

00:57:32   the space of a year and a half our [TS]

00:57:35   country almost completely fell apart [TS]

00:57:37   with civil unrest and we put somebody on [TS]

00:57:39   the moon [TS]

00:57:40   yeah right i mean and 690 there's a [TS]

00:57:43   bunch of good books about this but I [TS]

00:57:44   mean it's almost everything that [TS]

00:57:46   happened in the sixties happened in 1968 [TS]

00:57:48   yeah including that I was born [TS]

00:57:51   boo hello the white album and John and [TS]

00:57:56   wats but you know like the the textbooks [TS]

00:57:59   that we that you and I read in [TS]

00:58:02   elementary school and all the way [TS]

00:58:04   through junior high were all based more [TS]

00:58:07   or less on that idea that we were that [TS]

00:58:10   we needed to beat the Soviets to the [TS]

00:58:12   moon and and you know columbus [TS]

00:58:17   discovered america sure but but also [TS]

00:58:20   that the future was coming and it was [TS]

00:58:23   going to be and Pan Am was still going [TS]

00:58:28   to be an airline but they were going to [TS]

00:58:29   fly to space right and it was it was [TS]

00:58:32   never more than a jump and a half away [TS]

00:58:34   from what we already understood [TS]

00:58:36   there's a reason you know in in the [TS]

00:58:38   fifties everything looks like a [TS]

00:58:40   television you know what I mean in the [TS]

00:58:42   sixties everything looks like a rocket [TS]

00:58:43   it's like you can't really do three [TS]

00:58:45   steps ahead of where you are but what [TS]

00:58:47   was so interesting to me was when [TS]

00:58:49   computers first arrived on the scene i [TS]

00:58:52   surveyed them you know 1979-80 i guess [TS]

00:58:58   about personal computers apple the Apple [TS]

00:59:02   and you know and other than games i did [TS]

00:59:11   I could not connect those computers to [TS]

00:59:14   rockets or to hover incarcerator to the [TS]

00:59:18   future right as I imagined it because [TS]

00:59:21   they just seemed like expensive [TS]

00:59:22   typewriters or things that you were [TS]

00:59:25   meant now all of a sudden they were [TS]

00:59:26   being colonized by teachers [TS]

00:59:28   as things that you needed to learn you [TS]

00:59:31   needed learned it do your reports on [TS]

00:59:34   them and you know they were they were [TS]

00:59:38   dull yeah and so although i was in some [TS]

00:59:45   ways like a lot of my peers you included [TS]

00:59:47   them in in eighth grade a lot of us sat [TS]

00:59:51   down and personal computers and some [TS]

00:59:53   people never stood up again [TS]

00:59:54   right right um but i sat down at them [TS]

00:59:56   and I monkey around with them and I was [TS]

00:59:58   like this isn't the future [TS]

00:59:58   like this isn't the future [TS]

01:00:00   this list though literally the worst and [TS]

01:00:03   Castle Wolfenstein is not fun enough to [TS]

01:00:07   its not even gonna sit down and try to [TS]

01:00:09   teach you basic which is incredibly [TS]

01:00:11   appealing to some people but it was not [TS]

01:00:13   for me know you really get it felt like [TS]

01:00:16   the ultimate in like eating my [TS]

01:00:17   vegetables [TS]

01:00:18   yeah right super punishment and I [TS]

01:00:20   remember a couple of things like okay [TS]

01:00:22   follow this and you have to do this [TS]

01:00:23   exactly right don't even you know all [TS]

01:00:25   the spaces have to be right every like / [TS]

01:00:27   / and has to be right and you work and [TS]

01:00:29   we're going to draw this thing you type [TS]

01:00:32   this bunch of gibberish and then you you [TS]

01:00:35   know that you type run and push her to [TS]

01:00:37   click click return and it is a like a [TS]

01:00:40   random tone generator that goes [TS]

01:00:43   boop-bah-bah paper and if you've done [TS]

01:00:47   everything flawlessly the screen will [TS]

01:00:49   turn yellow for a second [TS]

01:00:50   yeah yeah and it and when it happened I [TS]

01:00:53   was like wow you guys suck and this [TS]

01:00:57   sucks like this what this is not fun or [TS]

01:01:00   interesting because i couldn't even like [TS]

01:01:02   it I like I turned it off and then I was [TS]

01:01:04   like hey hey Susan c'mere you know my [TS]

01:01:06   sister comes over like what I'm like [TS]

01:01:09   uh-oh can you help me buy you know I've [TS]

01:01:13   got a computer program here and I just [TS]

01:01:15   need you do like just to help me here [TS]

01:01:18   while but i'll be back here wiggling a [TS]

01:01:20   wire and you just you just push return [TS]

01:01:22   why don't you [TS]

01:01:23   she's like all right push your turn sir [TS]

01:01:25   I was like oh no what did you do learn [TS]

01:01:30   at the master control program she's just [TS]

01:01:33   already walking away like through flame [TS]

01:01:36   like it's no good it's not even good for [TS]

01:01:39   pooling and like even like in the other [TS]

01:01:41   thing is likely but when people which [TS]

01:01:43   would truck call me try to explain to [TS]

01:01:44   you again the one hand with this is [TS]

01:01:46   gonna be the next big thing you're like [TS]

01:01:47   hmm you okay but look if you if you [TS]

01:01:50   learn this and you master this you will [TS]

01:01:52   be able to do things like maintain your [TS]

01:01:54   checking account you're like really [TS]

01:01:56   that's the appeal the appeal of this is [TS]

01:01:57   that I could do something I hate on a [TS]

01:01:59   machine that I hate yeah you know and [TS]

01:02:01   but you know part of it is also this is [TS]

01:02:02   a bonus on my ass but I think part of it [TS]

01:02:04   is also when will anyone when one or [TS]

01:02:08   when society or whatever is new to [TS]

01:02:10   technology we tend to look at in terms [TS]

01:02:12   of this plus that [TS]

01:02:13   there are some people who are able to [TS]

01:02:15   earlier than others determine that this [TS]

01:02:17   could mean this times that [TS]

01:02:18   yeah right thats that there's that [TS]

01:02:20   there's a way for this to be more than [TS]

01:02:22   your checkbook plus a typewriter and you [TS]

01:02:25   know that there could be some something [TS]

01:02:27   to see in this guy i've just never I've [TS]

01:02:29   never had that I'm very bad to this day [TS]

01:02:31   I still get everything wrong about the [TS]

01:02:32   future because it's you know it's just [TS]

01:02:34   based so much on what you saw before and [TS]

01:02:37   I don't know it's i really liked video [TS]

01:02:41   games back then and the idea i mean like [TS]

01:02:43   arcade games that i couldn't afford you [TS]

01:02:45   know so I mean I it would have been [TS]

01:02:46   great if I could have fallen in love [TS]

01:02:47   with typing and in basic but just to [TS]

01:02:50   have zero appeal to me so I don't know I [TS]

01:02:53   you know I i can only imagine what I [TS]

01:02:58   mean I I feel like Mike my parenting [TS]

01:03:01   style we went to the two she got her [TS]

01:03:03   tonsils out the other day and we won't [TS]

01:03:05   know [TS]

01:03:05   yeah yeah and we were at the hospital [TS]

01:03:07   and the the nurse was like you know [TS]

01:03:10   trying to a trying to do what you would [TS]

01:03:15   normally do and and it make a child feel [TS]

01:03:18   more comfortable and she was like you [TS]

01:03:20   know would you like to watch frozen on [TS]

01:03:22   the ipad and you know my kid is [TS]

01:03:26   fascinated by frozen but has never seen [TS]

01:03:31   frozen so you know he sent me 101 of [TS]

01:03:34   wonderful version of her singing the [TS]

01:03:36   song [TS]

01:03:36   yeah she basically just saying this one [TS]

01:03:38   line incorrectly over and over and let [TS]

01:03:40   go let go let go let it go can't hold it [TS]

01:03:43   back anymore great dance floor [TS]

01:03:47   oil that it go can't hold it back [TS]

01:03:49   anymore and she'll do it over and over [TS]

01:03:51   and over again and then when i start to [TS]

01:03:53   sing it she's like stop know and then [TS]

01:03:58   she'll start again and I'm like okay I'm [TS]

01:03:59   not singing along but but that is very [TS]

01:04:04   different from some of my friends who's [TS]

01:04:05   who who's attitudes about technology and [TS]

01:04:08   their kids just like let him have a [TS]

01:04:10   limit let him have at it because the [TS]

01:04:13   future is going to be rich in these new [TS]

01:04:15   words and the these new technologies and [TS]

01:04:19   so you know don't you shouldn't protect [TS]

01:04:24   your kid from videos or more Disney [TS]

01:04:29   because this is just the it's the new [TS]

01:04:31   language and don't raise them to be a [TS]

01:04:33   weird hermit but like my instinct i just [TS]

01:04:38   cannot i cannot a like loose the dogs of [TS]

01:04:44   war like that and so I don't know if I'm [TS]

01:04:49   doing her a disservice by not already [TS]

01:04:51   having a VR helmet honor training her [TS]

01:04:55   training the different hemispheres of [TS]

01:04:57   her brain [TS]

01:04:58   I got a green i'm gonna read on this [TS]

01:05:00   which is that I think and you tell me if [TS]

01:05:03   I'm wrong but he stopped what I want to [TS]

01:05:04   get from you is that there are so it's [TS]

01:05:07   not that you're like a overly cautious [TS]

01:05:08   or conservative person but I think you [TS]

01:05:11   do have a good gut check in your own in [TS]

01:05:14   your own mind anyway for like you know [TS]

01:05:16   what's the phrase I'm looking for kind [TS]

01:05:17   of along the lines of first do no harm [TS]

01:05:19   it's like is there surpassing amount [TS]

01:05:21   about this let's say somebody says hey [TS]

01:05:24   you know what you know your kids real [TS]

01:05:25   sassy and energetic we have a very we [TS]

01:05:28   have a pill we could give her that would [TS]

01:05:31   be very minimally invasive and there's a [TS]

01:05:34   ok good chance they would have good [TS]

01:05:35   effects like if that's the case like I [TS]

01:05:37   could think of like 50 reasons why you [TS]

01:05:38   would go [TS]

01:05:39   not only am I not gonna do that but I'm [TS]

01:05:40   going to punch you in the nose for [TS]

01:05:41   suggesting that right now right because [TS]

01:05:43   you have there certain things where [TS]

01:05:45   you're like I get the feeling i can tell [TS]

01:05:46   you what all those things are I think [TS]

01:05:47   drugs are collar amongst them but there [TS]

01:05:50   are certain kinds of things where you [TS]

01:05:51   going well you know [TS]

01:05:52   no we're going to avoid that because [TS]

01:05:54   it's okay to be bored [TS]

01:05:55   it's okay to be a little bit behind it's [TS]

01:05:57   okay to be different right it seems like [TS]

01:05:59   there's certain things we're like that [TS]

01:06:00   some [TS]

01:06:00   that's just as important as being able [TS]

01:06:02   to read is being able to be bored [TS]

01:06:04   well and also like ultimately i am very [TS]

01:06:08   suspicious as I think we all are of the [TS]

01:06:12   like fast pace at which the [TS]

01:06:16   corporatization of everything is [TS]

01:06:19   happening [TS]

01:06:19   uh-huh and so ultimately when I look at [TS]

01:06:22   frozen and I perceive it to be tied to a [TS]

01:06:29   global marketing campaign of music and [TS]

01:06:33   dolls and stickers dresses soon events [TS]

01:06:38   right when i see when i see that it is [TS]

01:06:40   also bet that that that somewhere in [TS]

01:06:43   hollywood there's a team of people [TS]

01:06:45   sitting around a big table who are [TS]

01:06:48   saying the word monetize over and over [TS]

01:06:51   again and and I recognize that the line [TS]

01:06:56   between them and the creative team who [TS]

01:06:59   are in a separate room sitting around a [TS]

01:07:01   separate big table is I I recognize that [TS]

01:07:05   that line of connection is purposely [TS]

01:07:08   obfuscating even within that company so [TS]

01:07:12   that those creative sitting around that [TS]

01:07:14   table can can convince themselves that [TS]

01:07:16   they are artists and that they are [TS]

01:07:19   working in an artistic medium and they [TS]

01:07:22   are building a thing that is that has [TS]

01:07:24   its own merit and has and communicates [TS]

01:07:27   good values two kids and is positive and [TS]

01:07:31   you know all that stuff but that line of [TS]

01:07:34   connection between that room of [TS]

01:07:36   creatives and the rest of the company [TS]

01:07:39   who are all like like I was in a thrift [TS]

01:07:43   store the other day and there what [TS]

01:07:46   behind the counter was some in its [TS]

01:07:49   original packaging tron merchandise from [TS]

01:07:55   the tron reboot haha and it was like a [TS]

01:07:59   little collection of it five or six [TS]

01:08:01   different pieces and it was evident from [TS]

01:08:03   the way it was packaged in the way it [TS]

01:08:05   was you know marketed by its own [TS]

01:08:07   packaging that the that the the concept [TS]

01:08:11   or the sense that the that [TS]

01:08:13   that they had about this was that these [TS]

01:08:16   characters were going to be so popular [TS]

01:08:18   with kids that they were going to be [TS]

01:08:21   able to differentiate between the flying [TS]

01:08:25   disc that rod had and risk the chip had [TS]

01:08:29   and I mean that the disk that contains [TS]

01:08:32   your brain that you should never lose [TS]

01:08:34   that she uses a weapon that's the one [TS]

01:08:36   huh [TS]

01:08:37   and that all that all of this all of [TS]

01:08:39   this like I was like putting your brain [TS]

01:08:41   in a sock and hitting somebody with it [TS]

01:08:43   what are you what you don't do that haha [TS]

01:08:46   but but like that it was it was obvious [TS]

01:08:50   that the marketing team had in mind that [TS]

01:08:52   these were going to be as popular and as [TS]

01:08:55   widely understood as lightsabers and [TS]

01:08:59   that the difference between Luke's [TS]

01:09:01   lightsaber and Darth Vader's lightsaber [TS]

01:09:03   that I mean that's a very clear [TS]

01:09:06   distinction and if you want one you [TS]

01:09:07   probably don't want the other and these [TS]

01:09:10   tron discs that were connected to the [TS]

01:09:12   names of these characters not a Jeff [TS]

01:09:15   Goldblum and and Barney Fife or whatever [TS]

01:09:18   and it and I'm looking at these things [TS]

01:09:22   and I was like I I was the target [TS]

01:09:25   audience for the first Ron I know this [TS]

01:09:27   world I notron world pretty well and I [TS]

01:09:30   don't give a shit about these toys and [TS]

01:09:32   no one ever did and that's why they're [TS]

01:09:34   in a thrift store in their original [TS]

01:09:35   packaging and that that world that [TS]

01:09:40   mechanism that's behind everything that [TS]

01:09:43   is being distributed now is good for [TS]

01:09:45   kids or most things it just my [TS]

01:09:49   suspicions of that trumps any message [TS]

01:09:55   that they claim frozen Israel you know [TS]

01:09:58   any like positivity or like togetherness [TS]

01:10:02   and so and I get very confused when i [TS]

01:10:04   come up against like first the my little [TS]

01:10:09   pony universe where there's so much [TS]

01:10:12   secondary right in about the message [TS]

01:10:16   that it's and all that secondary writing [TS]

01:10:21   is stacked up against all this [TS]

01:10:23   merchandise and you go [TS]

01:10:26   you know too well which-which instinct [TS]

01:10:29   to I follow the the one that sees this [TS]

01:10:31   pile of merchandise and goes yuck or all [TS]

01:10:33   the secondary writing about friendship [TS]

01:10:35   is magic that you know that maybe tells [TS]

01:10:40   a different story that maybe I should be [TS]

01:10:41   more curious about and then all the way [TS]

01:10:44   to adventure time where everybody i know [TS]

01:10:47   all my grown-up friends all say [TS]

01:10:50   adventure time is amazing and it's a [TS]

01:10:53   it's into this other world of smart and [TS]

01:10:57   also caring and good for you literally [TS]

01:11:01   good for you and made by real people who [TS]

01:11:04   are legitimately good and weird people [TS]

01:11:07   that we know like we actually know the [TS]

01:11:10   people that make it and trying to you [TS]

01:11:15   know trying to decide like how much of [TS]

01:11:18   this to let through and then i turn my [TS]

01:11:22   turn two episodes of Mister Rogers that [TS]

01:11:24   were made in 1972 and I go you know what [TS]

01:11:26   I know I know what I'm getting here is [TS]

01:11:28   Rogers never tried to sell me anything [TS]

01:11:31   right so I don't know I I honestly don't [TS]

01:11:34   know what how I'm going to continue to [TS]

01:11:37   just to be a good Marshall I am because [TS]

01:11:46   of a show i did with the Johnson case [TS]

01:11:48   recently where we talked about sports [TS]

01:11:50   you can basically take everything I feel [TS]

01:11:52   like everything you just had to say [TS]

01:11:54   about those entertainment properties and [TS]

01:11:57   just change that to sports and that's [TS]

01:11:59   where I am [TS]

01:11:59   that's and it's it's hard to find a [TS]

01:12:01   friend sometimes because i like a lot of [TS]

01:12:03   stuff you're talking about as you know [TS]

01:12:04   and I'm not about to argue with you [TS]

01:12:06   about it but like that's and sports and [TS]

01:12:08   it's like it's so hard it feels so [TS]

01:12:10   lonely and I won't go over this because [TS]

01:12:11   I've been yelled at enough on the [TS]

01:12:13   internet this week about this but like [TS]

01:12:14   it's it's it's so strange to me to feel [TS]

01:12:17   like saying like i said here's what i [TS]

01:12:20   say that I'm not very good at arguing [TS]

01:12:21   but but so i'll say well you know I [TS]

01:12:23   think it's really strange how obsessed [TS]

01:12:25   adults are with sports and sports [TS]

01:12:26   culture I think it's really odd and i [TS]

01:12:29   think it's it's it's kind of strangely [TS]

01:12:31   privileged how much people able to pick [TS]

01:12:33   from the high ground just because sports [TS]

01:12:34   and like say well you know you're the [TS]

01:12:36   word for not feeling this way and then I [TS]

01:12:38   say that and then people say well you [TS]

01:12:39   didn't defend that for [TS]

01:12:40   well and I go I know like it's weird [TS]

01:12:43   that I have to defend that that's the [TS]

01:12:45   entire plucking point of what I'm saying [TS]

01:12:47   is like you are you're soaking in the [TS]

01:12:49   hegemony here if you can't see how weird [TS]

01:12:51   it is that you can say from that [TS]

01:12:53   position that you can say something like [TS]

01:12:54   well you didn't make a very good case [TS]

01:12:55   against sports like why should I have to [TS]

01:12:57   make a good case against sports [TS]

01:12:59   why should you have to make a case [TS]

01:13:01   against saying like I don't want my kids [TS]

01:13:03   to be in the princess business like but [TS]

01:13:06   you then you end up being the weirdo [TS]

01:13:07   because there's something about this [TS]

01:13:09   doesn't feel good [TS]

01:13:10   well so I was so at this very same [TS]

01:13:12   thrift store as I'm walking out the door [TS]

01:13:16   I'm sort of standing there standing [TS]

01:13:21   there sort of in the entrance and was [TS]

01:13:25   standing there with me and she points [TS]

01:13:26   over my shoulder and she says what is [TS]

01:13:27   that and I turn around and it's a four [TS]

01:13:32   foot tall pink coffin what and I and [TS]

01:13:41   we're looking at it from behind and I go [TS]

01:13:43   what is that and she says is that a kids [TS]

01:13:47   coffin wave it in a oh my god in a [TS]

01:13:53   thrift store in a goodwill [TS]

01:13:55   oh my god that's one letter city till [TS]

01:13:57   I'm like think often that really you [TS]

01:14:00   I have to go I have to go look at this [TS]

01:14:03   now she's like I don't think that you [TS]

01:14:04   should and I'm like no no I need to see [TS]

01:14:06   what this is [TS]

01:14:07   so I go back in the store and I go and [TS]

01:14:09   look at it and it is a toy object that [TS]

01:14:14   is connected somehow to vampirism [TS]

01:14:21   ok ok but it is but it isn't clear it's [TS]

01:14:26   not branded Twilight it's probably that [TS]

01:14:30   like I don't know what it's called but [TS]

01:14:31   there's like that is a kids show and [TS]

01:14:34   kids franchise it's all about these like [TS]

01:14:35   vampires in high school [TS]

01:14:37   alright I've seen this okay i'm gonna [TS]

01:14:39   get like big eyes [TS]

01:14:40   the guy that they're like brats they [TS]

01:14:42   like undead brats [TS]

01:14:44   under breath I said I actually walked in [TS]

01:14:46   on some kids watching that show one time [TS]

01:14:48   and sat down in a chair and watch it for [TS]

01:14:50   three or four minutes and was like this [TS]

01:14:52   is the most polluted [TS]

01:14:53   did entertainment I've ever seen it is [TS]

01:14:56   not a report [TS]

01:14:57   well you know they were all six years [TS]

01:14:59   old I was that I'm sitting at the back [TS]

01:15:01   of them going [TS]

01:15:02   this is pollution this is absolute soul [TS]

01:15:04   pollution it's not mine pollution you [TS]

01:15:06   haven't you haven't gotten into the the [TS]

01:15:08   disney network yet it is soul pollution [TS]

01:15:10   you children need to go outside [TS]

01:15:11   immediately [TS]

01:15:13   you need to go splash your faces in a [TS]

01:15:15   bird you need to you need to bury [TS]

01:15:19   ourselves in the dirt and you need to [TS]

01:15:22   you need to poke yourself with things [TS]

01:15:24   and get infections you need to fight [TS]

01:15:25   with stick with my other children in the [TS]

01:15:27   neighborhood you need to cleanse your [TS]

01:15:29   souls of this garbage [TS]

01:15:30   I'd love to hear what you think of dog [TS]

01:15:31   with a blog yeah well one day I'm sure [TS]

01:15:34   I'll see else consume all these media [TS]

01:15:36   but so I'm staring at this coffin this [TS]

01:15:38   4-foot tall pink coffin which has I like [TS]

01:15:43   a heart cut in the door and and I'm [TS]

01:15:49   reflecting on vampirism as a children's [TS]

01:15:52   like diversion at Children's diversion [TS]

01:15:57   for a like a fetish culture for kids and [TS]

01:16:00   like your pink undead coffin which then [TS]

01:16:04   I opened it up and it was like it was [TS]

01:16:06   meant to be used as a dresser or it had [TS]

01:16:09   shelves in it [TS]

01:16:10   the child was not meant to climb into [TS]

01:16:12   the coffin this was a decorative element [TS]

01:16:13   for your six-year-old goth prince think [TS]

01:16:19   six-year-old goth vampire princess and [TS]

01:16:23   I'm and I'm just thinking all the [TS]

01:16:25   different board rooms where people [TS]

01:16:29   pitched story ideas that eventually [TS]

01:16:32   resulted in a thing where this coffin [TS]

01:16:35   was made real in the world and it all [TS]

01:16:39   every one of them seriously they stood [TS]

01:16:41   in a room they thought about how to name [TS]

01:16:43   it they thought about what the packaging [TS]

01:16:44   would look like and they managed to make [TS]

01:16:46   it through the entire process and still [TS]

01:16:47   say we should sell a children's coffin [TS]

01:16:49   let's build this man its life-size the [TS]

01:16:53   kids will feel you know and so and this [TS]

01:16:55   thing I mean I don't know how old it is [TS]

01:16:57   it's cold enough that it's in a thrift [TS]

01:16:59   store but but but i don't think that old [TS]

01:17:02   because i can't imagine i can't imagine [TS]

01:17:05   that these were things that they [TS]

01:17:07   that certainly wasn't vintage right i [TS]

01:17:09   mean this isn't brand-new a brand-new [TS]

01:17:11   confluence of ideas that a child would [TS]

01:17:15   even know what a vampire was would want [TS]

01:17:17   to be one but would still want to [TS]

01:17:19   maintain a princess status writer that [TS]

01:17:22   it would be connected to Princess ism [TS]

01:17:24   and criticism princess ism which is the [TS]

01:17:29   which is now looking at the the biggest [TS]

01:17:32   ideology in the world this is almost [TS]

01:17:34   party and so your vampirism princess ism [TS]

01:17:38   and and you know it's full of little [TS]

01:17:40   decorative sort of like there's [TS]

01:17:42   victoriana in it because it's also a [TS]

01:17:44   little steam pump what an abortion and [TS]

01:17:49   i'm just i'm looking at this thing and [TS]

01:17:50   I'm just marveling but I'm also so i'm [TS]

01:17:52   also listening to all those people in [TS]

01:17:55   j.crew suits who were approving these [TS]

01:17:58   ideas and saying like listen vampires [TS]

01:18:01   are big right now but so are princesses [TS]

01:18:02   how do we get how do we capitalize on [TS]

01:18:05   this like well wait wait a minute [TS]

01:18:08   vampire princess is a man who's with me [TS]

01:18:10   and and that by the time that that that [TS]

01:18:14   you're at the receiving end of that like [TS]

01:18:16   garbage hose you've been you've been [TS]

01:18:20   like hit with a with like a meat [TS]

01:18:23   tenderizer a cultural meat tenderizer so [TS]

01:18:25   many times that you feel like oh sure [TS]

01:18:28   this all makes sense right of course [TS]

01:18:29   environment [TS]

01:18:30   my kid loves being a princess and [TS]

01:18:32   vampires seems like she's old enough for [TS]

01:18:35   vampires she's six years old and and [TS]

01:18:39   then you are you're like you're just in [TS]

01:18:41   this work earlier in this place where [TS]

01:18:43   you are literally living in a garbage [TS]

01:18:47   hose and you don't even know it you [TS]

01:18:51   think you're doing good [TS]

01:18:52   you think you're doing you think you're [TS]

01:18:54   being a good parent and and you can't [TS]

01:18:59   and it's so hard to even take that tiny [TS]

01:19:01   little step back and go wait a minute i [TS]

01:19:03   just buy my daughter a coffin [TS]

01:19:04   [Music] [TS]

01:19:10   [Music] [TS]