Roderick on the Line

00:00:01 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► this episode of Robert online is [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► sponsored by the National gondola [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► manufacturers association mgma develops [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► and lobbies for programs or policies [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► that advance the well-being of gondola [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► producers building a more just verdant [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► and peaceful society and GMA we helped [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► make the things that help make [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► condomless [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► hello hey John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► it's going ok how are you going John [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► that too [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► thus need look no more okay i prepared [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► that wasn't very good but had some [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► prepared i liked it I liked it you sing [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► into a rat a rat a distortion pedal or [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► you are literally singing to a rat right [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► I never understood the filter knob oh [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► it's just am it's just like that passes [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► that may not have a high-pass hiding [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► something [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► yeah I think that was Michael Jackson's [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► hit about the rat from that movie [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► oh sure Algernon yep flowers for Ben [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► Algernon yea though I loved them [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► it's about the death of a salesman in [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► many ways mhm [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► I've always found that it was a long [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► day's journey into night [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► yes it was an absence of a dollhouse ok [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► let's keep going come on i wrote a song [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► that's right it is it is a hot l [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► Baltimore ill get em [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► it is a green light over easter egg up [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► but yeah I prepared wrong i just spent [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► on wikipedia yes song your song it is it [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► is a short happy life of Francis [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► Macomber on happy podcasts are different [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► i am I i wrote a song once called a long [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► day's journey into night component was [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► it like that like night is in like [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► jousting [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► mmm that would have been but you know [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► that's more of a bonus that could be a [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► point-to-point long do not owe em thanks [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► / long day's journey trying to I'm [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► trying to work it out you don't really [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► good it was really good at that pungent [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► game is that Ken Jennings he's no gosh I [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► he's insufferable usability something I [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► bet he's ok works on the railroad it [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► seems long day long [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► oh hello it's a it's a it's a gay night [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► porn thing it's got time shifting maybe [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► some star track and you have a journey [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► into night long day and it's spelled dai [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► long day [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► I am ya my long day's journey into night [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► song came from the era where I was [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► riding pretty epic but very precious [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► songs there wasn't any didn't have the [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► kind of light-hearted like grace then [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► later work did she well it's certainly [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► graceful uh were you telling that story [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► moving a kind of Prague way through the [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► music or was it through the lyrics good [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► question good question because I don't [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► give you is you're a great lyricist but [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► you seem like an uncomfortable lyricist [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► oh interesting tell me more [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► well uh it seems to me that you are I [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► mean a team at me that I said no no not [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► at all but i always loved it i always [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► loved thoughtful like thoughtful a calm [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► commentary on my my work you know [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► because even with it what happens right [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► you you go online you read fans who are [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► writing profusely and you read critics [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► who are writing insufferably often you [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► know where they listen to like the first [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► 30 seconds of every song one time that [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► you hate that so much and and so [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► somebody that is like really familiar [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► with your work and also has like an [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► interesting comment on it that's i love [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► that i'm happy to join i would also like [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► to just say thank you to our Roderick [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► nation all the people who suggested [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► campaign slogans based on lines from [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► songs and no one was that [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► mhm with john roberts throwing more than [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► shapes from really good with repeated um [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► well no some of this is genetic and some [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► of this is personal [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► in terms of what sort of s am writing [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► here um well I before I knew you as a [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► dude I I George music and listen to it a [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► lot and but then as I got to know you [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► like I i first came to realize that I [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► would make that joke you know a minute [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► ago but you you are when you listen to [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► music you like to be immersed in it you [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► don't do other stuff you're not doing [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► laundry while you're listening to music [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► generally write em isn't a thing like [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► you don't listen to the car and-and-and [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► somebody who's been privy to some of [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► your tracks before their release [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► I know that [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► you appreciate people to listen to them [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► with just listening to them all the way [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► through pleased with headphones and the [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► festivities but you were saying that [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► there was something about me that made [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► me feel like I was like uncomfortable [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► lyricist and that is very well it's [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► funny because and there may be an [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► element of a crucible here but you I [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► mean you write great great pop songs and [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► you have a lot of I don't know i just i [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► love the structure of your songs in the [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► way they work and i love the free parts [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► and i love the complicated parts in the [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► changes but it seems like especially in [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► that I I just get the feeling that you [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► end up writing a lot of lyrics later in [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► the process you maybe maybe maybe you [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► got a line I don't know but it seems [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► like even that little documentary-like [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► didn't you write like I was in car parts [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► that was an old song but aren't there [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► songs that are pretty popular of yours [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► that you kind of wrote in the studio we [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► have several like baby stuff from [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► putting the days to bed so i'll [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► definitely the song hindsight I i wrote [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► largely in the studio largely in the [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► last hour and scared straight [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► I wrote in the statute you came up with [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► those lines like just writing in the [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► studio in the you know in the this is [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► the this is one of my major work [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► problems is that in the crucible in the [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► in the pressure cooker I i produce but [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► but I don't like to be in the pressure [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► cooker it's not a happy place to be and [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► I don't and I can see it coming and I [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► don't want I don't want that to happen [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► either that's why I spent so much time [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► trying to devise a way to stop time stop [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► the progress of time so that i can just [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► have four more hours and knowing if [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► knowing that if I could do that i would [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► just squander that for hours just like I [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► squandered the four hours leading up to [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► that service learning leading up to this [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► moment where i was i spent that for [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► hours thinking about how I could stop [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► time right there's that and so when I [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► finally get in that crucible i am like I [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► I'd I do make things there and part of [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► the part of the reason that there was [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► never a fifth long winters record is [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► that I very deliberately and through [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► methodical process eliminated all [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► all the corners that anybody could put [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► me in right I just I just eliminated out [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► of my life all of the ways i didn't need [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► other people's money anymore i didn't [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► need other people's approval anymore and [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► moved out of my mom's house so she [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► couldn't wake her spatula at me and tell [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► me to get off the couch and you know and [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► i found that at having them that now I [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► was in a round room and nobody could [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► corner me and that is the you know that [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► is that's very telling I think about it [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► all the time I thought about it this [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► morning huh [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► I think about it in the context of this [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► the campaign to like I'm in a corner [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► every day now and and yeah it'sit's um [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► you and I have both experienced this [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► thing where we feel like on the one hand [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► it's good to have external pressure on [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► the other hand we don't want external [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► pressure but for me like external [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► pressure is a real it's a big hit it it [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► is a an important component it's a [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► motivator [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► yeah and thinking about the think about [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► that we use that phrase the crucible of [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► the studio the other thing is that [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► you're paying to be there there's extra [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► increased ability because because now [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► you you're paying everybody there you're [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► paying Tucker you're paying whoever for [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► you to sit there and feel bad i think [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► generally people don't like having to [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► pay to feel bad about things hey you're [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► pretty swell subscribe to magazines [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► anymore i don't want to pay to feel [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► guilty about the new york times you're [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► paying and and and and there are you [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► know the the feeling that like this is [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► your last chance if you don't get this [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► done now like this is in some ways your [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► last chance you're going to end up and [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► not not only not getting this done but [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► then you that this dream is over [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► uh-huh and you know and that was another [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► thing that I got to the kind of rounded [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► that corner off to because it was [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► evidence that i did have a little time [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► my career wasn't going to be over if I [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► took another week or took another two [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► weeks and then Twitter and the internet [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► and you know podcasting and all the [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► charging your phone other all the other [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► things came in and they and they had [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► they also had you know there were [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► rewards to those things like my career [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► at four there were a lot of musicians [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► that were at my level in 2006-2007 that [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► kept making music but did not but their [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► careers didn't really continue because x [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► times change and businessman but I [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► jumped you know I jumped from one nice [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► flow to the next and jumped to another [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► ice floe and another and and some of [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► that was was running from the corner but [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► it all it all produced new exciting [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► things and and so yeah I I you know we [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► talk about this all the time and I I'm [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► fast I'm out early fascinated by this [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► topic and to get back to what you're [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► actually talking about [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► it's to me it's um it's such a dark car [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► to try to understand well first of all [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► why anybody wants to make anything [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► really differs a lot from person to [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► person and whether that difference in [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► terms of the I despise that were in that [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► context motivated motivation inspiration [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► but like what you think you'll get out [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► of having done it and it's one of those [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► weird things where you can look at [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► somebody who's very prolific and [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► successful and it is a little like Anna [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► Karenina where you can look at somebody [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► who's doing it great and they're having [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► a great time and people are enjoying [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► what they do and they're just you know I [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► have friends like this you just say they [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► just write all the time look at John [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► Scalzi guy like he's such a cool guy [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► such a nice guy so prolific and so like [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► johnny on the spot to get involved in [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► anything like I really feel like I [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► learned a lot about being around that [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► guy on the cruise was really inspired [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► actually inspiring to me but you won't [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► look at somebody like that you know of [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► course we're going to kill him but [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► because it's super frustrating that they [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► get so much done [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► it's easy enough to look at somebody [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► where everything everything is clicking [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► on all cylinders and go well obviously [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► that's the way to do it but there's like [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► 10,000 ways to not do it and there's [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► many multiple ways to not do it and it's [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► almost impossible sometimes to [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► understand why you're not [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► functioning a tenth of the level of [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► somebody else and part of that could be [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► pressure and I think of course the [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► obvious the elephant in the room is the [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► pressure you start to put on yourself [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► because now you make one makes an [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► impossible situation more impossible by [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► constantly raising the bar moving the [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► bar hiding the bar and and then that [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► just creates like self doubt and anxiety [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► and all the other kinds of stuff that [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► make you totally uninterested in even [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► attempting something because you feel [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► like I'm speaking for myself as somebody [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► who's getting later in life I don't this [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► is of all the things i'm most about this [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► is not the top of the list but one thing [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► I do think about as well what if I do [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► make something that's not what everybody [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► was expecting and now they're [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► disappointed and I wasted my time and [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► why do I bother in the first place [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► I think that's kind of common feeling [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► yeah i think so too i think so too and [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► and and panic definitely feeling I share [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► I mean I'm talking about artists and art [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► makers all the time now because that is [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► you know that's the place i'm coming [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► from as I'm talking to the city right [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► and and i keep saying like you don't [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► need their they're not a they're not [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► they're not a unified group of people [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► that all work the same way and a lot of [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► them don't want your attention they just [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► need they know they need to be left [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► alone they need to live in a run-down [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► places they need to that's part of their [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► thing that was definitely part of my [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► process and my thing and how do you [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► convince the city to preserve places [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► that look to people driving by in their [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► Tesla's like abandoned or decaying [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► warehouses that could be replaced with [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► with big bright shiny things and the [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► idea that in those in those dark places [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► is where the culture of 10 years from [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► now is being germinated right and those [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► spaces are actually like key elements of [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► any real city and if you think of them [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► just as underused property and and [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► there's and the problem is there's no [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► way to do an economic impact statement [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► about about that about those spaces and [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► done that kind of mental space right [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► oh god yeah I you know if this is just [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► just occurring to me as a an emerging [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► thought technology but if you think [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► about the role of implicit let's look [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► for now it's limited to artists but roll [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► limited all artists in a city what their [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► role ends up being in the city is very [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► good if you have true artist as in [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► people who are not just not just people [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► who are making you know are successful [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► at making seashell art that people put [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► in hotels but people who are actually [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► exploring new ideas and new approaches [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► and maybe aren't successful [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► quote-unquote yet ice [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► I feel like there's an analogy to be [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► made where artists are in some ways the [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► city's children [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► no not in terms of maturity but well you [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► know not strictly speaking but in the [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► sense of like you know if you're a [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► parent like the dumbest thing that you [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► can do is to constantly expect your kid [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► to be a grown-up when they're not i mean [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► there's so many ways you can fuck that [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► up every day for 20 years [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► you don't mean like it really is helpful [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► to understand that well you know at this [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► kids level of development [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► this is what they're capable of this is [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► what there may be capable of this is [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► what [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► there should be more capable of but you [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► would never expect your kid to like come [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► home after school and write a novel in a [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► day because that wouldn't but but we [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► don't see the same person does not [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► expect that you certainly don't expect [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► your kid to be profitable you understand [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► that your kid is is a cost center rather [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► than a profit Center my daughter can't [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► even manage to go down to the corner [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► store and get me cigarettes and I so [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► every day I'm like simple your writing [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► on her hand it's simple American you can [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► figure it out but where I mean any sane [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► person this is a strain analogy but go [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► with me any sane person would have those [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► reasonable expectations and say plus you [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► know your kind of nice to have around [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► and I i'm very excited to be here to [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► watch you become a more interesting [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► person and have a future that I could [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► have absolutely no way to even fathom or [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► predict right yeah so that you go with [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► me on this and then with the city we [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► expect it's like we're interested in the [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► artist [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► if they're successful in the New York [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► Times we're not interested in the artist [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► when they're just finding their way but [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► that attracts a lot of people to a town [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► places where you've got an expense but [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► inexpensive place to live to kind of [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► figure out a thing that you're doing but [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► we don't treat them like we don't armed [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► guard that like we would a space for [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► kids we treat them we treat them like [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► dirty hippies who need to have their [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► homes turned into places where people [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► who work at startups will have the next [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► artist is never popular you know the [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► though the last artist is is always you [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► know the one that people recognize is [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► like wow he started from nothing and [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► he's there you know he or she now is [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► enormously popular and isn't that an [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► amazing uplifting story and then the [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► next artist is always the is always back [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► back to square one right i mean there [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► are there are people in the art [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► curatorial world that are out there [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► digging in the dirt looking for the next [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► you know the next big thing but for the [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► most part in terms of the way a city [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► thinks it it has no provision for the [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► fact that hard scrabble is the that is [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► the pool where ideas are really [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► generated and you know the the the [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► mountain view cupertino idea that you [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► build it build a tower and you fill it [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► with young people from Stanford and [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► that's where the ideas are going to come [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► from is one is it is like one vision of [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► the future but traditionally all those [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► ideas come from the all the all the real [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► ideas that push progress come from [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► people that are in a corner right and a [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► and in that crucible and then they have [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► they have that flash that comes partly [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► because they're under pressure and just [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► being under pressure to make a hundred [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► million dollars before you're 26 is not [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► really creative pressure right and [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► that's what that's purely just it's [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► there's the the self-motivated component [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► but then it's just competition your job [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► to get there fast [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► it's just ego pressure and that's why we [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► have that's why the Internet economy is [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► based so much on let's take that one [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► idea that somebody once had and and you [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► know and put a cat on it or you know [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► let's like that lesson modify let's [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► modify this idea and modify it again and [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► just keep like grinding and and you know [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► no really it's not really moving the [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► civilization ball forward it's just [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► trying to move the Prophet ball around [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► right i mean on the way into town today [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► I I saw two interesting things i'm [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► driving in and there's a i'm driving [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► past boeing field and there's a private [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► jet parked on the tarmac and it is [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► painted in basically tribal tattoo [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► graphics and I'm like that's in you know [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► like Mike Tyson face tattoo style an [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► Aboriginal cavea Polynesian neo [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► polynesian tattoo a graphical stuff but [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► with no real ethnic aspect it's been you [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► know it's been taken out of context [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► modified enough that it just looks like [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► pointy lines but that's where it's [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► coming from and then and so I'm looking [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► at it I'm like is this like a is some [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► kind of red bowl thing or something and [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► then on the on the engine written in [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► gothic script so you see where we're [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► going now [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► no there's some a Latin phrase that's [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► basically like if some dough lower or [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► you know like literally I don't remember [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► what it sounds like vice magazine sit [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► but you know even vice has enough [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► self-awareness to if they were going to [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► make that joke it would have it would [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► have had one other element like a [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► blanket like a silver skull and [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► crossbones or something but this was [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► clearly somebody some person who got [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► rich and had a like a maxim magazine or [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► a lad mag [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► a aesthetic and now all the money in the [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► world and this was not a small jet [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► either you know it's a it's not like it [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► wasn't a huge one but like a [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► medium-sized like a Gulfstream yeah [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► somewhere in the citation gulfstream [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► zone and this was their choice right [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► this is like I've got my own jet I'm [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► gonna make it look badass forget giant [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► skateboard badass and you just know when [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► you got on board it was just gonna be [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► like it was gonna be like being inside [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► the Hat of the guy from jam Iroquois [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► about it i know exactly which could you [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► just climb in that like fake fur hat and [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► i'm just i'm driving past I'm just like [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► you know that's exactly that's exactly [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► the thing right i mean i was thinking [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► about I woke up this morning singing I'd [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► like to buy the world to cook and I [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► thought about it I'm like I still love [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► that song it's a really nice song I [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► realized like well cokes are expensive [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► in America but they're not very [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► expensive around the world but let's [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► assume that you can buy like over the [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► course of the earth the average price of [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► a coke let's just say it's 50 cents and [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► I think that's way higher [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► I think that's way too high i think you [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► could probably get if you if you like [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► aggregated the cost of coke around the [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► world coke is probably three cents a cup [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► but let's say it's 50 cents so there are [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► actually people lots of a handful but [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► lots of people lots of a handful who [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► could literally buy the world a coke [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► they could buy a coke for every person [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► in the world and pay for the logistics [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► to supply that Coke to every person in [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► the wall that's that's pretty [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► astonishing right there are people in [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► Seattle who could buy the world a coke [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► oh my god so anyway i'm driving past [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► this airplane and I'm like this you know [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► and what did this guy do is he he's some [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► kind of mean it's hard to know whether [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► he is on an internet entrepreneur who [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► who has it was just broadcasting this [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► aesthetic because he's a badass or [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► whether he's some kind of actual like he [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► owns oakley sunglasses and this branding [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► is sort of part of his overall brand of [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► like a badass attitude and I'm just [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► gonna shake my head and then I pass a [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► little one of those little sprint cars [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► coming the other way and it says and it [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► has the logo of a company across the [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► hood of the car and the logo is [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► something like graffiti be gone and it's [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► a it's a sort of brand new car and a [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► startup company who just from the name i [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► have to assume is is selling this [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► service get out there and really like [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► really finally get on top of this plague [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► of graffiti that's happening that's [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► sweeping the world that's causing our [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► cities to be so uninhabitable and it's [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► like that the the aesthetic of this [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► guy's airplane and the and what these [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► people in this little car are imagining [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► is the is the is the real trouble here [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► the broken windows syndrome and you know [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► there's there's just no awareness that [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► like I mean graffiti artists are are [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► exactly the people who are backed into a [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► corner and then produce something at [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► their best at the best graffiti work is [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► the is you know is up there with the [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► best art right and the the worst [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► graffiti art like it is still speaking [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► in a language that most people don't [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► that don't recognize it as a language [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► don't understand what's happening over [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► at but but there's a whole philosophy [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► behind a reclaiming the the Brutalism of [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► of the concrete public space we've we [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► have we've acquiesced to most of our [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► public space being on just bare concrete [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► walls the way I talk about under freeway [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► passes [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► and you know there's so much space in [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► the city that we just stood idly by [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► while big you know like big [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► infrastructure determined that what we [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► were going to look at was gray concrete [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► and as you're driving around it's just [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► like you're gonna you're in a world of [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► great concrete and that's the that is an [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► aesthetic and it's an aesthetic that is [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► practical but it's still a bit still a [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► powerful aesthetic and graffiti has a [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► whole philosophy or a whole you know a [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► its ideological in a way like we're [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► reclaiming that space with color at the [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► very least and here these guys are [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► puttering along you know in their car [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► graffiti be gone and i'm sure that that [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► what they're doing is going to [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► businesses and who had their front doors [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► tagged and right you know medicating [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► that but I'm just thinking about this [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► guy sitting in his jab mera koi plane [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► and he's probably on a gold cell phone [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► and he's probably talking to a graffiti [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► artist about you know putting up a [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► putting up a you know a piece em on the [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► wall of his you know his concrete [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► loft-style office space in down in the [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► mission in San remember brother i'm [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► presuming this guy lives in San [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► Francisco sure I'm and I think it's not [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► to take that is right i would like for [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► you potentially to write the song about [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► this but i think i really like the late [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► harry chapin terrain [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► yes little twist at the end see he is [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► not an uncomfortable lyricist he would [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► dive right in [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► ma knows how to suck at your [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► heartstrings would be like no Henry [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► component to it they realized that they [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► were like and maybe they're twins [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► separated at birth mother feeding the [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► creepy guy in the plague I oh hello can [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► see there's a twist twist to it you you [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► just I just got chills the cat's in the [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► cradle and he's it's got his spray paint [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► can and the little boy blue and his tag [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► on the door and we're going to help when [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► you comin home jamiroquai up the reason [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► that the reason that i was so enthralled [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► by long day's journey into night was [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► that you know that play came out in the [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► early [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► forties and really want it takes place [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► earlier right [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► yeah I think it looks like it's eugene [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► o'neill's childhood right right right [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► but you know it was like it was that it [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► was that really fruitful period of [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► Americans like letters we have the [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► middle in the middle of the century the [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► modern age man that's right and and that [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► so when I think about that like my my [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► dad was 21 [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► let's say my uncle Jack was 17 and that [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► play landed and they but both of those [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► guys my dad and his brother both have [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► told me many times that that play [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► described their family and described [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► their household in a way that no other [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► work before sentence and they both [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► identified so strongly with it and I you [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► know I feel like my Uncle Jack had has [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► been trying to write his version of a [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► long day's journey into night his whole [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► life [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► wow he sends me drafts of of plays that [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► he has been working on about his [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► childhood he's in his late eighties now [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► that's a sad [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► well because those you know those guys [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► were trying to make sense of the of the [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► of the world they grew up in and this [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► was in it this was a one of those great [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► moments where a work of art landed and [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► it helped and helped my you know he'll [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► come on little like a catharsis because [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► I mean like a classical sense that we're [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► this is an instrument for me I think [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► anytime you have something comes along [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► that puts a name or a story on to [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► something you didn't think had a name or [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► a story go oh wow I really see myself in [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► this and you can only mean vs yeah and [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► that and I feel like they felt really [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► alone and isolated growing up it in the [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► sense that they were living in a [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► community middle-class community where [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► their friends didn't have these problems [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► there in on that that's a that's a [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► little bit of everybody's problem right [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► you never know what is happening behind [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► closed doors in your friends house [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► those right but but here they hear they [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► saw their story writ large and when I [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► think it changed them both and so as i [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► was in when i was 21 and trying to [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► understand my own life I would i read [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► that play and put and cast my father and [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► my uncle in it and it helped me you know [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► it's a it's like a work of art that that [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► has kind of started to be threaded into [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► my family's sense of itself and so I'm [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► always try it on but I recognize it as [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► as more than just a like a seminal work [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► it's you know there's a personal element [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► to it because because my grandfather [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► didn't wasn't it wasn't able to write [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► his own story and my dad never wrote [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► that story and my uncle is as tried you [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► know we were a lot we lean on artists [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► for so much and and they they do so much [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► and it's never a thing that you can [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► properly put a price on and that's a [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► that's a cliche to say but but it's um [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► but it's something i'm just i'm thinking [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► about all the time like hey we we have [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► we have gone so far in that direction of [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► trying to figure out like well what [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► what's the value of angry birds the [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► value of angry birds is over April how [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► many people downloaded how many people [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► buy it [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► yeah and you know and and that is [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► reckoned to be over a billion dollars [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► and the value of eugene o'neill or the [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► value of Mick Jagger even you know is [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► reckons to be Mick Jagger is one of the [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► richest rock stars in Britain with a [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► network worth of 200 million dollars or [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► something [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► which is one-fifth of the value of angry [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► birds and you don't even care numbers [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► are right [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► that's not a great statistic i'm going [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► to use that you know it's all five [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► members of The Rolling Stones dealing [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► with angry birds they don't reach it the [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► other the other the other guys I mean [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► having Keith Richards is worth less [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► because he had to spend all that money [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► getting his blood replaced multiple [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► times and then the other guys let's get [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► a date you get a day rate yeah they're [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► just on salary but like the collected [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► works of eugene o'neill has a value in [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► our culture of I can only imagine a [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► couple million dollars a few million [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► dollars and a handful of millions of [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► dollars right spread over all the the [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► his inheritors and so and so that is you [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► know that that's hard for me as I go out [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► into the city and say like yes we need [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► to build transit absolutely we need to [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► build affordable housing absolutely we [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► need to provide clean water and work for [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► an equitable city but how do you also [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► put a value on on the the intangible [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► things that make a place special and [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► that make us want to stay alive and that [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► make us want to um you know that that [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► help us live in love and and without [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► being able to attach a value to it [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► how can you advocate for it how can you [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► put it up against something else that is [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► that you know is clamoring for this [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► those same resources even if those [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► resources are just lets leave this space [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► alone or let's let's leave these people [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► alone [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► it's a it's it's a real tangle and a lot [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► of people would say well let me just [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► clarify do you feel like you get [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► implicit pushback because you don't have [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► like an economical white paper on the [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► value of artists you know 2001-2011 or [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► something [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► well and the thing is you could make a [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► man there are lots of people who want to [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► make the argument that [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► artists bring it you know they put they [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► stick out their Clinton thumb and start [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► wagging it and say Clinton i'm sorry/not [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► Clinton but the artists have brought in [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► over 270 4.6 million dollars into [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► seattle economy since march of 2011 is [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► like going into a you know that's shown [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► up at a gunfight with a knife [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► you know that's that's that's not going [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► to eat that's like the arguments not [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► gonna fly [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► well no the argument I mean I feel like [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► that argument does fly because people [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► love to hear numbers and they and they [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► not and they go oh yes it is it's an [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► industry just it's an industry [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► equivalent to the industry of chroming [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► uh hub caps and pipe and bumpers you [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► know like if you can package it is it is [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► the numbers are what enables it to be [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► packaged into something that can be [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► easily explained and understood right [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► right but no but what what what you're [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► talking about there is the last artist [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► right the people that made stuff that [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► generated money and we recognized their [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► value and we go the last artist made us [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► to the last artists made 250 million [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► dollars for Seattle that's what we do [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► support them but I'm always talking [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► about the next artists have made nothing [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► and you can't yet they have made no [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► money for you yet and you can't you [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► can't gauge their value by the their [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► potential money some of the best artists [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► never make any money and we only [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► recognized their value later but you [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► can't go into seattle public schools and [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► say and think of art education as job [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► training which is how a lot of people [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► think about it and when that resource [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► constraints really tighten its not happy [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► thing but it's somewhat natural thing to [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► go well you know we get these tests [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► right and we got out there is not is not [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► a test on you know Braque and Picasso [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► there is a test on the specific set of [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► mathematics jobs jobs jobs well and [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► what's crazy is for me like the idea of [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► teaching math because it will get you a [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► good job is is to I think that [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► like it like that disgusting [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► undervaluing of the importance of [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► learning math like when that becomes I [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► mean when that becomes the criteria [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► which it is a lot of the time setting [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► apart the testing stuff when whether it [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► was when you start getting into the like [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► whether this gets you a job thing you [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► start to really sour a lot of what makes [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► education good in the first place i'm [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► not just saying that as a liberal arts [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► fruit but justjust even any of the [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► intrinsic reasons why you won't might [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► want to be a more rounded educated and [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► exposed to the world person starts to [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► fall away if that's your bar right well [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► and you think about what is math I mean [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► be the trade it you know it's the [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► computer mattock computer maths are [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► attracted yeah but math i mean the the [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► the many atheists listening to our [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► program who live in Brandenburg or [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► somewhere it around Lake balitaan and [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► hungry i know that they're out there [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► they're going to see the four doors from [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► here if they're going to objected this [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► but you know math is the language of God [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► right it's that it's you look over God [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► shoulder for a moment and I got you mean [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► Richard Dawkins and by god I mean all of [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► the all of the uncaused causes all the [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► random reverse movers all the great [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► first movers all the negative numbers [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► and and so you know it is it is both the [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► human thought technology math I mean [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► negative numbers right [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► it's a thought technology but also it is [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► an uncovering it is a discovery of a [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► thing it is a school discovery of the [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► first principle and to equate that with [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► like to equate learning that with like [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► developing some skills that are really [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► going to help you later in life as [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► opposed to like should we not all be [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► thinking about this all the time should [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► not math and higher math and the [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► implications of math not be on our minds [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► all the time because they they should be [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► we should be looking at everything [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► through a lens of math because it is the [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► only reason that that the things we've [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► built our standing and it's the that as [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► far as i can tell the only coherent [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► like fabric to explain any kind of what [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► almost everything comes down to math [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► right and that's it and it's a bit [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► it's beautiful poetry and and and a [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► certain at the level of molecular [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► biology or or a particle physics or you [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► know like it all is this unified theory [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► that we're with that we've been [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► struggling to do to find are struggling [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► to reconcile with gravity and that [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► should be at a certain level like our [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► temple we should go to that all of us [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► every week or every day and say wow who [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► we've really you know we've really [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► figured out a lot in recent memory [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► just in the last hundred wherein also [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► refigured things out that's the other [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► just that's the neat thing about science [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► that we are always trying to say like [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► did I get that right yeah let's keep [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► checking that right and so then you go [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► into the schools and you imagine like [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► all the constraints on people even ones [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► who feel that poetry and go into [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► teaching full of that that poetry and [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► then you know requiring them to Governor [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► to teach in prose and little by little [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► you just drain that poetry out of all [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► those experiences and kids are sitting [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► there and they're just like I'm in [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► prison and and it's almost unavoidable [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► in the pressures from parents like is he [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► going to make it is she going to be a [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► good she going to be a good human is she [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► going to get through to the other side [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► and be one of the good humans [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► well can't catch up in yeah i think [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► there's this couple things on the table [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► here that are that are really [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► interesting and I you know I grew up in [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► Cincinnati where we had a really good [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► public school system and and yes i'm [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► sorry there is about to be a little bit [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► of bagging on Florida coming in a minute [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► I apologize in advance [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► now let me just ask before you get [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► started yes please did you ever [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► I mean I'm and I think I know the answer [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► but did you carry a giant comb with the [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► handle sticking out of your back pocket [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► yeah good come did you carry and really [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► a good brand com tried it [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► not a monster no especially on well [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► here's the thing is well I'm glad you [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► asked this question John when I was [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► younger at home a family would have a [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► large goody com something on the order [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► of maybe you know six six to eight [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► inches right right and then there's a [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► new thought technology in the early [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► eighties where they made him small you [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► can put in your pocket and that would [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► stick out of your right back pocket of [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► your of your Levi's a quarter eyes [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► you're right back pocket let me I cannot [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► be more clear gonna comb right back [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► pocket times facing in facing toward [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► your seam i have pre cisely the exact [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► same mental picture you'll never have in [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► your left pocket and you never had the [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► time facing out no come on my god [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► well memory come from the problem is I [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► never had a goodie calm and I remember [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► and remember whoa we aspire to have a [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► good kind did I aspired to have a good [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► command of the problem was i guess like [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► couldn't keep from losing things or my [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► mom never recognize is why we can't have [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► nice cones right [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► my mom would buy me one of those combs [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► that you would find in a men's room more [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► than once they were like that would [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► break [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► oh yeah you know in a jar of a light [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► blue just an actor I'm not gonna carry [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► one of those around us that we secure it [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► comes to carry come around he does that [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► yea big come with the handle sticking [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► out and come on the one hand the [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► Cincinnati school system was a risk [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► because it was terrific i mean you know [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► is maybe this might have just been the [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► time and the place but whatever any case [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► i can say is that making the jump to [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► then going to public school in Florida [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► was a was a very different thing and [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► I've said this numerous times in the [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► past and i don't mean to be disparaging [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► because it's hard to do things but we [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► had a single vocational wheel a [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► generally anything like this but in sin [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► ti I don't think we did I love that I [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► love it so far [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► okay well this is this is a you know as [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► you like to say the sun coast of florida [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► in nineteen so I didn't go to seventh [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► grade in public schools but those who [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► did go to grips of sounds great in the [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► junior high school so its seventh the [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► ninth grade you have all these [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► vocational tracks you have you how you [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► can take a health class you can take on [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► marketing you can take graphic arts or [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► that's called drafting back then you can [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► take wood shop you can take metal shop [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► and so on and so forth and those were [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► really like you by eighth grade when I [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► went there you had to take at least one [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► of these trade classes now the year that [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► i missed the year before every seventh [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► grader in at least in pasco county had [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► to go through some of the complications [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► wheel which is where you spent two weeks [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► in each other vocational classes [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► Oh which on the one hand is a pretty [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► brilliant idea because it's it's nice to [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► have exposure to all those who make a [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► lamp you make a toolbox you do all that [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► stuff you know you learn to sell pencils [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► at the school store you learn to use a [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► t-square etc etc on the face with very [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► cool but I remember even then having the [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► feeling that I later greatly expanded as [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► I got older that you start we have the I [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► think we all have that day it comes at [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► different ages but you start to realize [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► wow [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► schools not just about teaching me math [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► and english and science you know when [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► you're very young maybe you figure out [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► schools kind of about teaching me to be [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► places on time [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► mmm stand in line but by the time it [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► gets really hairy because by the time [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► you get to junior high your before you [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► really transition into the whole like [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► your stuff you need to learn for college [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► is this weird period we're almost [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► everything you're exposed to in junior [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► high is about following rules and not [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► becoming a burden on society [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► yeah I think that's kind of what it is [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► and I think we don't we don't say that [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► although we kind of realized that while [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► place with good schools tend to have [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► better results isn't that a funny [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► coincidence but I just remember feeling [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► at the time that like in that instance I [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► you know and this is even still when we [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► had music classes this isn't even still [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► when we had art classes which now are [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► kind of like little side things in our [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► public school not like a main thing you [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► don't get you don't get PE math or [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► excuse me okpe art and music every day [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► it's something you go and do like an [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► assembly anyhow that was one thing that [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► really struck me and so I mean I not [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► that that's a bad thing put in a [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► different way I should be feeling like [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► it was like a starlet felt Stalinist in [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► a sense of like everybody remember when [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► we were kids and you'd say like well you [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► know in the Soviet Union you get a test [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► when you're 12 years old that decides [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► what you do for the rest of your life [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► right and i can remember feeling like [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► well this test message here is like all [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► the suburban kids that can pull it off [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► and make it into algebra algebra algebra [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► like we know they're going to be pretty [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► ok we know what track their on what [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► about these other kids they're not [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► coming in as much like they need to [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► learn how to make a toolbox sweater a [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► pencil pencil holder [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► yeah so anyway I don't give me thoughts [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► on that but that that was a thought that [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► occurred to me but the larger larger [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► point I want to get the part two is and [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► I'm gonna play the race card a little [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► bit when we talk about things like is [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► this a community that is friendly to art [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► and artists is this a community where [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► there's enough is enough room in the [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► lower middle class for people to come in [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► here without having a full-time you know [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► about having a typical career bases full [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► time job and do interesting things you [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► know how you put a value on that what [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► you're struggling with that [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► how do you here's the thing though how [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► do you put a value on diversity and bite [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► I mean do I mean every kind of diversity [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► right i think the first kind diversity [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► is are you around people that are not [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► your same race and gender but are you [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► also around are you around people that [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► are different differing economic classes [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► and backgrounds have more locked in or [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► less locked in futures you know what i [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► mean and i guess i feel like in this in [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► the same way maybe as the artist issue [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► is this deeper issue of well we don't [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► really notice diversity until it's gone [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► until it's quote-unquote like under [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► control but i can tell you times the [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► donuts that moving to this town has a [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► white guy in a nation neighborhood in [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► 1999 they were a lot more black people [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► living in the entire Bay Area I mean [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► they're still people in oakland but [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► knowing you know less let's get this get [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► more expensive too but like the the [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► diversity is people at the money can [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► afford to come in [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► okay i'm gonna be kind of simple for a [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► minute but the people who can afford to [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► come in push-up the other people and now [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► it is why people pushing out why people [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► like it's becoming and you know any of [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► the any of the weather your personal [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► color or not but it is the appt class is [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► moving in let's make no mistake about it [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► its people in finance and people in [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► ventura county funded companies and big [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► corporations but it is certainly not [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► becoming more interesting and it's [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► certainly not becoming more diverse and [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► it's certainly it's a lot of people who [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► are doing things like making the house [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► that somebody else was thrown out of [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► turns into a condo and now the [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► restaurants the bars around there get [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► much moved out because they're making [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► too much noise and so I don't have a [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► unified field theory here but like in [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► the same way i've seen this in with work [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► I've done in the past there was a time [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► when the value of user experience [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► was thought of as just you know spray on [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► usability you just go in and make some [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► changes blah blah you guys go do your [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► coloring and now you realize you don't [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► understand this [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► the difference being a good experience [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► with an airline a bad experience with an [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► airline even just based on their website [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► will completely change your feeling [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► about the company you're feeling if [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► you're if you are an artist and a person [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► of color and you come into a town you're [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► gonna know in 10 minutes how welcome you [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► are there and whether that's a place [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► where you can make a life so I don't [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► know how you quantify that except by [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► saying having that having some kind of [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► diversity as much as the economy and the [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► people compare like makes it a better [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► place [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► well the the the tendency are on the [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► west coast and I think this is the [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► tendency increasingly everywhere is to [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► practice liberalism in a in a very sort [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► of well to practice lip-service [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► liberalism right and what that ends up [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► looking like is that diversity is [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► welcomed as long as it's within the well [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► as long as it's within the confines of [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► bourgeois values and culture right so we [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► welcome all people into our bushwa [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► envelope of values what we do not [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► understand how to do is to provide [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► opportunities for people who are not [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► trying to who you know who are trying to [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► move into a booj wall state but who are [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► at literally struggling to survive or [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► literally struggling to just you know to [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► remain right just to remain in place and [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► not be displaced from their own homes [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► and communities and so Seattle has a has [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► a great record of diversity in [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► government diversity and you know in in [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► the in like public hiring and I mean we [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► we have tried and tried and tried to [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► live up to our own standards [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► but we still don't understand how [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► important it is that neighborhoods [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► remain intact or that they're you know [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► that for a young white artists living on [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► Capitol Hill the experiences incredibly [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► different than that from that of a young [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► black artist living in the central [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► district and you know that that feeling [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► of like great work comes from being [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► backed into a corner but there's a [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► certain point where you're backed into [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► the corner and and either under threat [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► of violence or just right you can't you [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► know like there is no corner for you [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► because it's um you know you're backed [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► into an i think that distinction is [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► utterly lost on some people that there [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► is a distinction between having a place [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► where you can struggle to make friends [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► don't make it and a place where the [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► typical rent is five times what anybody [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► could ever scrape together [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► yeah really big difference and and just [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► you know I think a lot of a lot of white [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► kids who are making art and music like [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► schlep around in the town and they you [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► know and they they walked from dark [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► doorway to dark doorway and they feel [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► like they are living a rough and and [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► living a dangerous downtown life and [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► that informs their art and character but [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► when the police slowly cruise by and [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► look them up and down and they stand [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► there in their dark door when they go on [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► man the fucking cops just scoped me fuck [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► those guys [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► the difference is that they kept the [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► cops kept driving right they scoped them [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► they gave him a dirty look [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► scumbags and but they kept driving and [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► the and the young white artist feels [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► like oh you know i'm i'm the grit of the [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► city is really informing my views and [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► I'm going to take that back to the art [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► that I'm making that basically coops the [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► history of jazz and hip-hop and I'm [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► gonna that's gonna be some meaty you [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► know gnarly shit [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► well the you know the young black guy in [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► the same exact situation who is probably [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► actively trying to stay out of dark [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► doorways a the cops roll by and turn on [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► their flashers and and pull [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► over and and ask for his ID and where [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► does he live and what's he doing out [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► right and that little bit of difference [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► is the thing that you know you hear [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► reported over and over and and yet it's [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► very it's impossible to know how that [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► changes your feeling when you are backed [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► into a corner in your own art making [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► when you are you know when you're poor [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► and and are struggling and and saying to [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► yourself [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► can I even be an artist can I even make [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► this stuff i need to do it but i also [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► have to survive and you know and that [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► that decision making and that's that and [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► that what ends up happening is that that [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► you do have a an increasingly bushwa art [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► culture where the people who are able to [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► make it through are the ones that in [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► that moment can call their folks and say [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► can you cover my rent this month or you [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► know and that's not that's not a slight [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► on anybody it's just that you there are [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► so many people have to drop out at that [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► moment right then and there not making [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► things then and they are embittered and [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► rightfully so and having that [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► conversation with with the city at large [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► particularly in a world where people [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► want to say look the market is the [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► market it's it's just what it is it's [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► not a there's no malice attached to it [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► it's just a natural system that's a [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► privileged well and and and in a way [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► like I mean I hear that from from all [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► walks of life the idea that we have set [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► in motion a system which is organic that [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► the market is just humans and the end [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► its and in a way it's just it's just a [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► language we've given ourselves to [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► express our natural desire to trade who [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► or whatever and so this you know this [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► rampant and and at with no awareness or [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► less awareness of the fact that it's the [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► the market is rigged all every step of [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► the way that that's what I mean when I [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► say privilege I didn't mean to use that [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► the code word but you know I'm becoming [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► more I guess sensitive in some ways to [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► that in myself and in singing in others [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► but in the case of somebody who's that [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► economically privileged you know folks [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► with a lot of money biggest problem they [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► face is losing some of their lot of [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► money so in a down economy where things [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► go wrong so in and up economy they get [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► to go hey hey market right and you say [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► well of course this is the market to [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► market is a market because I'm just [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► benefiting from this completely natural [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► thing because we can all agree on cheese [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► this is what the market is the market is [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► that I get lots of money because things [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► are going great right and then when [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► things go less great they still can find [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► a way to get by and that's not because [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► they're brilliant is because they have [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► lots of money and connections and but [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► that is even though that is the elephant [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► in the room [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► you sound like a conspiratorial nut when [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► you try to point that out to somebody [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► because everybody thinks their life is [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► hard it is everybody's life is hard its [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► way right I'm gonna be you know inhumane [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► about it but it is it's a little [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► disingenuous to call it just the market [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► when there's all kinds of things like me [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► might be getting subsidies or tax [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► credits all these different kinds of [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► ways that you can you can game the [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► system and then still call it the market [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► what's its that's not that's not the [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► market [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► I mean the market is you go down and try [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► to find fresh food in your neighborhood [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► where there's no groceries that's what [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► the market is the market is you go to [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► 7-eleven by a brown banana for two [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► dollars that's the market brown banana [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► that was a great movie that is that the [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► one with the chloe sevigny Chloe quote [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► closets starts jolie show they [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► accidentally a ceviche you see that [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► scene I never did know it's hard to [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► watch [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► ya know I wasn't interested it's not you [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► not my stuff what'swhat's really curious [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► to me lately you know the last week or [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► two has been really hard for me i've [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► been i've had a you know a lot of [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► anxiety a feeling that I'm that I'm [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► behind the eight ball and running to [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► catch up and you know maybe [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► coincidentally a lot of the people that [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► were my room my real brain trust all [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► took vacations all at once and so I [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► recognized how important it is for me to [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► sit just sit with friends and talk about [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► what's going on when they [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► these are really going on and I was [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► feeling very alone and and i was i'm [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► going through this process of fulfilling [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► the you know for checking off the boxes [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► that a candidate for public office has [TS]

00:55:46 ◼   ► to have to do you know fulfill bees [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► these obligations and it's a it's a it's [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► been an incredible learning experience [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► because we talk about you and I we talk [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► about conspiracy a lot or the the sense [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► that a lot of people have that that the [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► system's rigged or game door that there [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► is mountains and about the reality that [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► like giving human nature how relatively [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► few things ever even could be a [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► conspiracy and what ends up happening so [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► so what I've been going through is every [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► I don't mean to say going through like [TS]

00:56:22 ◼   ► it's a you know like I have like I'm [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► going through chemo but like every [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► legislative district in the city has its [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► own democratic party organization and [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► those party organizations have you know [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► there's a there's a chairperson [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► secretary sergeant-at-arms there are [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► there are rank-and-file of different you [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► know [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► LD oohs and all these different jobs [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► that people have and it's a it's a it's [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► a form of organization of voluntary [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► organization that that people love to do [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► it right it they these groups are [TS]

00:57:08 ◼   ► exactly like a lot of people I met in [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► rock-and-roll who love to talk about the [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► liner notes on records they're like [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► walks there walks right and so there are [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► there are so many more people who like [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► to talk about records then there are [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► people who make records right and and as [TS]

00:57:32 ◼   ► a music-maker I I never fully understood [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► the dough the record store maven I and I [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► know a lot of musicians who are also [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► record store mavens but for the most [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► part like the people who sit and collect [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► records who consume music in that way [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► but who think about like who the [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► original bass player was what the studio [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► Rapinoe like what the b-side was what [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► label it was on all that collecting and [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► churning of information cattle [TS]

00:58:03 ◼   ► cataloging librarian that librarian [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► impulse that we have ya in rock and roll [TS]

00:58:09 ◼   ► and there are people like that in the [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► nerd world there are but you know the [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► tech world there are people it's like [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► words yeah right [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► ultimate expression of it i mean like [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► even like when I was a little kid I was [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► I was more into like things like [TS]

00:58:21 ◼   ► statistics in the baseball cards in the [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► averages in the on-base percentages and [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► stuff and I wasn't actually watching a [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► game [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► yeah right i would say with dnd there's [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► there's people who are just into this [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► the culture and Walker e of it and so so [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► there there's a huge community of people [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► in politics who have that same impulse [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► that same desire to get together and [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► that then and there the language that [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► they get to use is Robert's Rules of [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► Order which feels very you know which is [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► official feeling and powerful and they [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► have jobs in the Democratic Party is a [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► is actually the one of two parties in [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► America that ever has power so so they [TS]

00:59:03 ◼   ► feel empowered right there part of their [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► part of a big operation and so people [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► run for office and they need to go [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► around and meet these Democratic [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► district organizations talk to them and [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► earn their endorsement and you see it [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► you see this go down right everybody has [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► all the time in the world and they don't [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► they have the time maybe to read your [TS]

00:59:30 ◼   ► thing but they don't really have the [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► time to sit with you for half an hour [TS]

00:59:33 ◼   ► and talk to you and so what they do is [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► invite all the candidates to come in [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► each person gets to speak for one minute [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► and then the the group of people who [TS]

00:59:46 ◼   ► have come to the this meeting vote [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► on them and how like how it's really [TS]

00:59:51 ◼   ► this is that simple [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► horse horse flesh and so you so part of [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► running for office is you have to [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► running for office is you have to [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► able to go into a room and in one minute [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► layout you order your plan for [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► government but for an entire city [TS]

01:00:12 ◼   ► yeah but you don't get a whole minute [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► you get a minute huh [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► and then based on that and when and you [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► know and whatever research the people in [TS]

01:00:22 ◼   ► the room have done independently then [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► they decided to endorse you or not and [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► that endorsement is either valuable or [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► not depending on how many of them you [TS]

01:00:30 ◼   ► can rack up and whether or not you're [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► running as an insider and outsider you [TS]

01:00:35 ◼   ► know it's but but the candidates [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► I mean nobody has time to sit and talk [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► to the candidates for 30 minutes but the [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► candidates have to run all around town [TS]

01:00:44 ◼   ► and all basically together in a pack IC [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► IC the people i'm running against now [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► every day and we're all standing there [TS]

01:00:51 ◼   ► giving our one-minute speech and we [TS]

01:00:53 ◼   ► don't we're not really inclined to be [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► chummy with each other we are complete [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► competing but really where the only [TS]

01:01:01 ◼   ► other people that know what this feels [TS]

01:01:03 ◼   ► like [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► so you stand there and you look at the [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► you look at your opponent with I mean I [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► i look at them with sympathy in my eyes [TS]

01:01:09 ◼   ► and just go like how you holding up you [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► know is everything fine and they kind of [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► just give me the like uncomfortable like [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► oh hello weird handshake and I'm like [TS]

01:01:20 ◼   ► seriously though I mean this is really [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► hard and they're like mmm and then they [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► get up and make the Clinton thumb and [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► give the speech and and i give this i [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► give my you know I can't have very still [TS]

01:01:33 ◼   ► distant still working on them because [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► still doesn't like to give a wonderful [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► learning the chorus [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► yeah and-and-and I watch it and i think [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► from the outside [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► this seems like a conspiracy right you [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► have to do these things these people are [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► all insiders they are you know the the [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► logic of it from outside the system is [TS]

01:01:57 ◼   ► there just voting for their friends no [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► new blood can never get through here you [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► know this is how we think of the [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► political system right yeah but from [TS]

01:02:06 ◼   ► inside it I see like what a hodgepodge [TS]

01:02:12 ◼   ► of accident it is you know and how this [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► is a these meetings are kind of like a [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► vestigial version of the town meetings [TS]

01:02:22 ◼   ► of old New England you know then and and [TS]

01:02:25 ◼   ► the people there are really proud of [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► participating in the democratic process [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► and the degree to which this isn't very [TS]

01:02:33 ◼   ► democratic and all and then ultimately [TS]

01:02:35 ◼   ► the decision is being made by a vote of [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► 25 people whether or not to endorse one [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► of these candidates and 25 people or [TS]

01:02:44 ◼   ► however many voting not to be too [TS]

01:02:47 ◼   ► dismissive but really based on like at [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► who presents well given the context menu [TS]

01:02:52 ◼   ► that's a microcosm of a much bigger dog [TS]

01:02:55 ◼   ► and pony show but really to decide that [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► based on [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► I mean is it really just that appearance [TS]

01:03:00 ◼   ► there's no like white paper or anything [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► like that you just go in like that how [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► they like the horse flash after 60 [TS]

01:03:05 ◼   ► seconds they can you know they can go [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► online and do as much research as they [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► want but there but that's not it does [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► not appear to meet some of the people [TS]

01:03:13 ◼   ► know but some of them are just this is [TS]

01:03:16 ◼   ► there this is their moment and that [TS]

01:03:18 ◼   ► moment that one minute of you speaking [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► to them is more than most voters know [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► about candidates right yeah most voters [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► do not even see a minute of them and so [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► it does not like so many things in [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► public life it doesn't feel like a [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► conspiracy once you're there but the end [TS]

01:03:37 ◼   ► result of it looks like the product of a [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► conspiracy because the only people that [TS]

01:03:44 ◼   ► really can make it all the way through [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► this hazing and make it you know and and [TS]

01:03:50 ◼   ► go through all of these things and do [TS]

01:03:52 ◼   ► this effectively are people who are [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► either very practiced in the art of it [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► or who have a lot of pre-existing [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► relationships with those 25 people in [TS]

01:04:04 ◼   ► the room because they are longtime [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► democratic party our operatives [TS]

01:04:08 ◼   ► themselves or people who have enough [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► money that they can bypass that process [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► entirely and appeal directly to the [TS]

01:04:16 ◼   ► people with like i'll buy the world a [TS]

01:04:18 ◼   ► coke vote for me and it's [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► fascinating to see like I wouldn't even [TS]

01:04:27 ◼   ► describe the process has broken its just [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► built its just built out of its like so [TS]

01:04:36 ◼   ► it's like all those buildings in Greece [TS]

01:04:38 ◼   ► where people were you know people in 400 [TS]

01:04:42 ◼   ► AD or like we need to build a house [TS]

01:04:45 ◼   ► let's go take some of those rocks from [TS]

01:04:47 ◼   ► the foundation of that old building and [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► they rebuilt the house out of blocks [TS]

01:04:53 ◼   ► from the Parthenon and then that house [TS]

01:04:56 ◼   ► burned down and somebody said let's take [TS]

01:04:57 ◼   ► those old burn rocks and build a fence [TS]

01:05:00 ◼   ► out of them and pretty soon you know [TS]

01:05:03 ◼   ► somebody added onto the fence and it [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► became a little bit of a castle and then [TS]

01:05:07 ◼   ► they put people on it and called it a [TS]

01:05:09 ◼   ► church and it's like it now we walk in [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► and it's a cellphone store on the [TS]

01:05:17 ◼   ► outskirts of Athens and you're like wow [TS]

01:05:19 ◼   ► this cell phone store is really [TS]

01:05:20 ◼   ► interesting and you know I don't up at [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► the bottom there are blocks from the [TS]

01:05:26 ◼   ► Parthenon and that that and being part [TS]

01:05:30 ◼   ► of that processes is thrilling and an [TS]

01:05:33 ◼   ► interesting but it's like it is really [TS]

01:05:37 ◼   ► impenetrable and has been and is an [TS]

01:05:42 ◼   ► exhausting and also is like it's causing [TS]

01:05:46 ◼   ► my stomach to churn all the time because [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► that reformer in me and I listened to [TS]

01:05:53 ◼   ► people all around me say like we need [TS]

01:05:55 ◼   ► reform up but they don't but they don't [TS]

01:05:58 ◼   ► even appear to stew to recognize like [TS]

01:06:01 ◼   ► like ruffle reform who would how would [TS]

01:06:06 ◼   ► you even begin like all of these all the [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► people in these meetings are like they [TS]

01:06:10 ◼   ► really are doing there that they are [TS]

01:06:17 ◼   ► participating with good intent with the [TS]

01:06:20 ◼   ► best intentions and it's so crazy how [TS]

01:06:26 ◼   ► how large groups of people all working [TS]

01:06:31 ◼   ► with the best intentions can produce [TS]

01:06:33 ◼   ► results that are so far from what we [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► would have met [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► engine were where our best effort [TS]

01:06:40 ◼   ► through I guess is that is what is what [TS]

01:06:44 ◼   ► becomes like so clear and why I mean [TS]

01:06:48 ◼   ► every single person i've met on the [TS]

01:06:49 ◼   ► campaign trail I haven't met a single [TS]

01:06:50 ◼   ► contemptible person they're all they're [TS]

01:06:53 ◼   ► all really interested and really trying [TS]

01:06:55 ◼   ► to make a difference and you know they [TS]

01:06:58 ◼   ► have varying ideas and ideologies but [TS]

01:07:01 ◼   ► they're all people of good will from [TS]

01:07:05 ◼   ► across the whole spectrum of people and [TS]

01:07:08 ◼   ► yet they are complicit everyday in these [TS]

01:07:12 ◼   ► small incremental compromises that are [TS]

01:07:16 ◼   ► not compromises of like well that's a [TS]

01:07:18 ◼   ► good idea and that's a good idea let's [TS]

01:07:20 ◼   ► compromise their compromises like well [TS]

01:07:21 ◼   ► what can we get done in a minute and you [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► know and what and you know and we've got [TS]

01:07:26 ◼   ► four more of these to do today so you [TS]

01:07:30 ◼   ► know that kind of stuff we're just like [TS]

01:07:31 ◼   ► well we're building this is we're [TS]

01:07:33 ◼   ► actually building a civilization out of [TS]

01:07:35 ◼   ► these parts out of these 1-minute [TS]

01:07:37 ◼   ► increments and that's hard to explain in [TS]

01:07:42 ◼   ► a minute [TS]

01:07:43 ◼   ► it's very hard to explain in a minute I [TS]

01:07:45 ◼   ► think I probably just took at least four [TS]

01:07:47 ◼   ► maybe that's what this is for this is [TS]

01:07:49 ◼   ► your this is your venue for that but you [TS]

01:07:52 ◼   ► know it's your it's frank is I think I [TS]