Roderick on the Line

Ep. 155: "Crucibility"


00:00:01   [Music] [TS]

00:00:08   this episode of Robert online is [TS]

00:00:11   sponsored by the National gondola [TS]

00:00:12   manufacturers association mgma develops [TS]

00:00:15   and lobbies for programs or policies [TS]

00:00:17   that advance the well-being of gondola [TS]

00:00:19   producers building a more just verdant [TS]

00:00:21   and peaceful society and GMA we helped [TS]

00:00:25   make the things that help make [TS]

00:00:27   condomless [TS]

00:00:28   [Music] [TS]

00:00:33   hello hey John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:38   it's going ok how are you going John [TS]

00:00:42   that too [TS]

00:00:44   thus need look no more okay i prepared [TS]

00:00:50   that wasn't very good but had some [TS]

00:00:51   prepared i liked it I liked it you sing [TS]

00:00:54   into a rat a rat a distortion pedal or [TS]

00:00:57   you are literally singing to a rat right [TS]

00:00:59   I never understood the filter knob oh [TS]

00:01:02   it's just am it's just like that passes [TS]

00:01:06   that may not have a high-pass hiding [TS]

00:01:07   something [TS]

00:01:09   yeah I think that was Michael Jackson's [TS]

00:01:11   hit about the rat from that movie [TS]

00:01:14   oh sure Algernon yep flowers for Ben [TS]

00:01:17   Algernon yea though I loved them [TS]

00:01:19   it's about the death of a salesman in [TS]

00:01:21   many ways mhm [TS]

00:01:23   I've always found that it was a long [TS]

00:01:25   day's journey into night [TS]

00:01:27   yes it was an absence of a dollhouse ok [TS]

00:01:31   let's keep going come on i wrote a song [TS]

00:01:34   that's right it is it is a hot l [TS]

00:01:37   Baltimore ill get em [TS]

00:01:40   it is a green light over easter egg up [TS]

00:01:44   but yeah I prepared wrong i just spent [TS]

00:01:48   on wikipedia yes song your song it is it [TS]

00:01:52   is a short happy life of Francis [TS]

00:01:54   Macomber on happy podcasts are different [TS]

00:02:00   i am I i wrote a song once called a long [TS]

00:02:05   day's journey into night component was [TS]

00:02:08   it like that like night is in like [TS]

00:02:09   jousting [TS]

00:02:09   mmm that would have been but you know [TS]

00:02:11   that's more of a bonus that could be a [TS]

00:02:12   point-to-point long do not owe em thanks [TS]

00:02:17   / long day's journey trying to I'm [TS]

00:02:20   trying to work it out you don't really [TS]

00:02:21   good it was really good at that pungent [TS]

00:02:23   game is that Ken Jennings he's no gosh I [TS]

00:02:25   he's insufferable usability something I [TS]

00:02:27   bet he's ok works on the railroad it [TS]

00:02:29   seems long day long [TS]

00:02:31   oh hello it's a it's a it's a gay night [TS]

00:02:34   porn thing it's got time shifting maybe [TS]

00:02:35   some star track and you have a journey [TS]

00:02:38   into night long day and it's spelled dai [TS]

00:02:40   long day [TS]

00:02:43   I am ya my long day's journey into night [TS]

00:02:50   song came from the era where I was [TS]

00:02:52   riding pretty epic but very precious [TS]

00:02:57   songs there wasn't any didn't have the [TS]

00:03:00   kind of light-hearted like grace then [TS]

00:03:07   later work did she well it's certainly [TS]

00:03:09   graceful uh were you telling that story [TS]

00:03:12   moving a kind of Prague way through the [TS]

00:03:15   music or was it through the lyrics good [TS]

00:03:18   question good question because I don't [TS]

00:03:19   give you is you're a great lyricist but [TS]

00:03:21   you seem like an uncomfortable lyricist [TS]

00:03:23   oh interesting tell me more [TS]

00:03:25   well uh it seems to me that you are I [TS]

00:03:28   mean a team at me that I said no no not [TS]

00:03:31   at all but i always loved it i always [TS]

00:03:33   loved thoughtful like thoughtful a calm [TS]

00:03:37   commentary on my my work you know [TS]

00:03:40   because even with it what happens right [TS]

00:03:43   you you go online you read fans who are [TS]

00:03:46   writing profusely and you read critics [TS]

00:03:49   who are writing insufferably often you [TS]

00:03:54   know where they listen to like the first [TS]

00:03:56   30 seconds of every song one time that [TS]

00:03:58   you hate that so much and and so [TS]

00:04:01   somebody that is like really familiar [TS]

00:04:03   with your work and also has like an [TS]

00:04:05   interesting comment on it that's i love [TS]

00:04:07   that i'm happy to join i would also like [TS]

00:04:09   to just say thank you to our Roderick [TS]

00:04:10   nation all the people who suggested [TS]

00:04:12   campaign slogans based on lines from [TS]

00:04:14   songs and no one was that [TS]

00:04:15   mhm with john roberts throwing more than [TS]

00:04:17   shapes from really good with repeated um [TS]

00:04:20   well no some of this is genetic and some [TS]

00:04:22   of this is personal [TS]

00:04:23   in terms of what sort of s am writing [TS]

00:04:25   here um well I before I knew you as a [TS]

00:04:28   dude I I George music and listen to it a [TS]

00:04:32   lot and but then as I got to know you [TS]

00:04:34   like I i first came to realize that I [TS]

00:04:37   would make that joke you know a minute [TS]

00:04:39   ago but you you are when you listen to [TS]

00:04:42   music you like to be immersed in it you [TS]

00:04:45   don't do other stuff you're not doing [TS]

00:04:46   laundry while you're listening to music [TS]

00:04:48   generally write em isn't a thing like [TS]

00:04:50   you don't listen to the car and-and-and [TS]

00:04:51   somebody who's been privy to some of [TS]

00:04:54   your tracks before their release [TS]

00:04:56   I know that [TS]

00:04:57   you appreciate people to listen to them [TS]

00:04:58   with just listening to them all the way [TS]

00:05:00   through pleased with headphones and the [TS]

00:05:01   festivities but you were saying that [TS]

00:05:03   there was something about me that made [TS]

00:05:05   me feel like I was like uncomfortable [TS]

00:05:06   lyricist and that is very well it's [TS]

00:05:08   funny because and there may be an [TS]

00:05:10   element of a crucible here but you I [TS]

00:05:13   mean you write great great pop songs and [TS]

00:05:15   you have a lot of I don't know i just i [TS]

00:05:18   love the structure of your songs in the [TS]

00:05:20   way they work and i love the free parts [TS]

00:05:22   and i love the complicated parts in the [TS]

00:05:24   changes but it seems like especially in [TS]

00:05:26   that I I just get the feeling that you [TS]

00:05:29   end up writing a lot of lyrics later in [TS]

00:05:32   the process you maybe maybe maybe you [TS]

00:05:34   got a line I don't know but it seems [TS]

00:05:35   like even that little documentary-like [TS]

00:05:37   didn't you write like I was in car parts [TS]

00:05:39   that was an old song but aren't there [TS]

00:05:40   songs that are pretty popular of yours [TS]

00:05:42   that you kind of wrote in the studio we [TS]

00:05:43   have several like baby stuff from [TS]

00:05:46   putting the days to bed so i'll [TS]

00:05:48   definitely the song hindsight I i wrote [TS]

00:05:52   largely in the studio largely in the [TS]

00:05:55   last hour and scared straight [TS]

00:05:58   I wrote in the statute you came up with [TS]

00:06:00   those lines like just writing in the [TS]

00:06:02   studio in the you know in the this is [TS]

00:06:05   the this is one of my major work [TS]

00:06:07   problems is that in the crucible in the [TS]

00:06:10   in the pressure cooker I i produce but [TS]

00:06:16   but I don't like to be in the pressure [TS]

00:06:18   cooker it's not a happy place to be and [TS]

00:06:21   I don't and I can see it coming and I [TS]

00:06:23   don't want I don't want that to happen [TS]

00:06:24   either that's why I spent so much time [TS]

00:06:26   trying to devise a way to stop time stop [TS]

00:06:30   the progress of time so that i can just [TS]

00:06:32   have four more hours and knowing if [TS]

00:06:35   knowing that if I could do that i would [TS]

00:06:37   just squander that for hours just like I [TS]

00:06:39   squandered the four hours leading up to [TS]

00:06:42   that service learning leading up to this [TS]

00:06:44   moment where i was i spent that for [TS]

00:06:46   hours thinking about how I could stop [TS]

00:06:47   time right there's that and so when I [TS]

00:06:50   finally get in that crucible i am like I [TS]

00:06:54   I'd I do make things there and part of [TS]

00:06:58   the part of the reason that there was [TS]

00:07:00   never a fifth long winters record is [TS]

00:07:02   that I very deliberately and through [TS]

00:07:05   methodical process eliminated all [TS]

00:07:10   all the corners that anybody could put [TS]

00:07:12   me in right I just I just eliminated out [TS]

00:07:15   of my life all of the ways i didn't need [TS]

00:07:17   other people's money anymore i didn't [TS]

00:07:20   need other people's approval anymore and [TS]

00:07:22   moved out of my mom's house so she [TS]

00:07:24   couldn't wake her spatula at me and tell [TS]

00:07:28   me to get off the couch and you know and [TS]

00:07:35   i found that at having them that now I [TS]

00:07:37   was in a round room and nobody could [TS]

00:07:39   corner me and that is the you know that [TS]

00:07:42   is that's very telling I think about it [TS]

00:07:45   all the time I thought about it this [TS]

00:07:47   morning huh [TS]

00:07:48   I think about it in the context of this [TS]

00:07:51   the campaign to like I'm in a corner [TS]

00:07:54   every day now and and yeah it'sit's um [TS]

00:07:59   you and I have both experienced this [TS]

00:08:03   thing where we feel like on the one hand [TS]

00:08:06   it's good to have external pressure on [TS]

00:08:09   the other hand we don't want external [TS]

00:08:10   pressure but for me like external [TS]

00:08:14   pressure is a real it's a big hit it it [TS]

00:08:16   is a an important component it's a [TS]

00:08:20   motivator [TS]

00:08:21   yeah and thinking about the think about [TS]

00:08:24   that we use that phrase the crucible of [TS]

00:08:25   the studio the other thing is that [TS]

00:08:27   you're paying to be there there's extra [TS]

00:08:30   increased ability because because now [TS]

00:08:32   you you're paying everybody there you're [TS]

00:08:35   paying Tucker you're paying whoever for [TS]

00:08:37   you to sit there and feel bad i think [TS]

00:08:38   generally people don't like having to [TS]

00:08:39   pay to feel bad about things hey you're [TS]

00:08:42   pretty swell subscribe to magazines [TS]

00:08:43   anymore i don't want to pay to feel [TS]

00:08:45   guilty about the new york times you're [TS]

00:08:47   paying and and and and there are you [TS]

00:08:49   know the the feeling that like this is [TS]

00:08:53   your last chance if you don't get this [TS]

00:08:56   done now like this is in some ways your [TS]

00:09:00   last chance you're going to end up and [TS]

00:09:04   not not only not getting this done but [TS]

00:09:06   then you that this dream is over [TS]

00:09:09   uh-huh and you know and that was another [TS]

00:09:12   thing that I got to the kind of rounded [TS]

00:09:16   that corner off to because it was [TS]

00:09:18   evidence that i did have a little time [TS]

00:09:21   my career wasn't going to be over if I [TS]

00:09:23   took another week or took another two [TS]

00:09:26   weeks and then Twitter and the internet [TS]

00:09:30   and you know podcasting and all the [TS]

00:09:35   charging your phone other all the other [TS]

00:09:37   things came in and they and they had [TS]

00:09:39   they also had you know there were [TS]

00:09:41   rewards to those things like my career [TS]

00:09:44   at four there were a lot of musicians [TS]

00:09:46   that were at my level in 2006-2007 that [TS]

00:09:50   kept making music but did not but their [TS]

00:09:52   careers didn't really continue because x [TS]

00:09:56   times change and businessman but I [TS]

00:09:59   jumped you know I jumped from one nice [TS]

00:10:01   flow to the next and jumped to another [TS]

00:10:03   ice floe and another and and some of [TS]

00:10:08   that was was running from the corner but [TS]

00:10:11   it all it all produced new exciting [TS]

00:10:14   things and and so yeah I I you know we [TS]

00:10:18   talk about this all the time and I I'm [TS]

00:10:20   fast I'm out early fascinated by this [TS]

00:10:22   topic and to get back to what you're [TS]

00:10:24   actually talking about [TS]

00:10:25   it's to me it's um it's such a dark car [TS]

00:10:27   to try to understand well first of all [TS]

00:10:30   why anybody wants to make anything [TS]

00:10:31   really differs a lot from person to [TS]

00:10:34   person and whether that difference in [TS]

00:10:36   terms of the I despise that were in that [TS]

00:10:38   context motivated motivation inspiration [TS]

00:10:40   but like what you think you'll get out [TS]

00:10:42   of having done it and it's one of those [TS]

00:10:44   weird things where you can look at [TS]

00:10:45   somebody who's very prolific and [TS]

00:10:48   successful and it is a little like Anna [TS]

00:10:50   Karenina where you can look at somebody [TS]

00:10:52   who's doing it great and they're having [TS]

00:10:54   a great time and people are enjoying [TS]

00:10:55   what they do and they're just you know I [TS]

00:10:57   have friends like this you just say they [TS]

00:10:58   just write all the time look at John [TS]

00:10:59   Scalzi guy like he's such a cool guy [TS]

00:11:02   such a nice guy so prolific and so like [TS]

00:11:04   johnny on the spot to get involved in [TS]

00:11:06   anything like I really feel like I [TS]

00:11:08   learned a lot about being around that [TS]

00:11:09   guy on the cruise was really inspired [TS]

00:11:11   actually inspiring to me but you won't [TS]

00:11:13   look at somebody like that you know of [TS]

00:11:15   course we're going to kill him but [TS]

00:11:16   because it's super frustrating that they [TS]

00:11:18   get so much done [TS]

00:11:19   it's easy enough to look at somebody [TS]

00:11:20   where everything everything is clicking [TS]

00:11:21   on all cylinders and go well obviously [TS]

00:11:23   that's the way to do it but there's like [TS]

00:11:25   10,000 ways to not do it and there's [TS]

00:11:29   many multiple ways to not do it and it's [TS]

00:11:31   almost impossible sometimes to [TS]

00:11:33   understand why you're not [TS]

00:11:34   functioning a tenth of the level of [TS]

00:11:36   somebody else and part of that could be [TS]

00:11:38   pressure and I think of course the [TS]

00:11:39   obvious the elephant in the room is the [TS]

00:11:41   pressure you start to put on yourself [TS]

00:11:42   because now you make one makes an [TS]

00:11:44   impossible situation more impossible by [TS]

00:11:48   constantly raising the bar moving the [TS]

00:11:50   bar hiding the bar and and then that [TS]

00:11:53   just creates like self doubt and anxiety [TS]

00:11:54   and all the other kinds of stuff that [TS]

00:11:56   make you totally uninterested in even [TS]

00:11:58   attempting something because you feel [TS]

00:12:00   like I'm speaking for myself as somebody [TS]

00:12:01   who's getting later in life I don't this [TS]

00:12:04   is of all the things i'm most about this [TS]

00:12:06   is not the top of the list but one thing [TS]

00:12:07   I do think about as well what if I do [TS]

00:12:09   make something that's not what everybody [TS]

00:12:10   was expecting and now they're [TS]

00:12:12   disappointed and I wasted my time and [TS]

00:12:14   why do I bother in the first place [TS]

00:12:15   I think that's kind of common feeling [TS]

00:12:18   yeah i think so too i think so too and [TS]

00:12:20   and and panic definitely feeling I share [TS]

00:12:23   I mean I'm talking about artists and art [TS]

00:12:27   makers all the time now because that is [TS]

00:12:29   you know that's the place i'm coming [TS]

00:12:32   from as I'm talking to the city right [TS]

00:12:35   and and i keep saying like you don't [TS]

00:12:37   need their they're not a they're not [TS]

00:12:40   they're not a unified group of people [TS]

00:12:42   that all work the same way and a lot of [TS]

00:12:44   them don't want your attention they just [TS]

00:12:49   need they know they need to be left [TS]

00:12:51   alone they need to live in a run-down [TS]

00:12:55   places they need to that's part of their [TS]

00:12:58   thing that was definitely part of my [TS]

00:12:59   process and my thing and how do you [TS]

00:13:02   convince the city to preserve places [TS]

00:13:06   that look to people driving by in their [TS]

00:13:09   Tesla's like abandoned or decaying [TS]

00:13:12   warehouses that could be replaced with [TS]

00:13:14   with big bright shiny things and the [TS]

00:13:18   idea that in those in those dark places [TS]

00:13:21   is where the culture of 10 years from [TS]

00:13:24   now is being germinated right and those [TS]

00:13:29   spaces are actually like key elements of [TS]

00:13:32   any real city and if you think of them [TS]

00:13:35   just as underused property and and [TS]

00:13:40   there's and the problem is there's no [TS]

00:13:42   way to do an economic impact statement [TS]

00:13:45   about about that about those spaces and [TS]

00:13:49   done that kind of mental space right [TS]

00:13:51   oh god yeah I you know if this is just [TS]

00:13:53   just occurring to me as a an emerging [TS]

00:13:55   thought technology but if you think [TS]

00:13:57   about the role of implicit let's look [TS]

00:14:00   for now it's limited to artists but roll [TS]

00:14:02   limited all artists in a city what their [TS]

00:14:05   role ends up being in the city is very [TS]

00:14:09   good if you have true artist as in [TS]

00:14:11   people who are not just not just people [TS]

00:14:13   who are making you know are successful [TS]

00:14:14   at making seashell art that people put [TS]

00:14:16   in hotels but people who are actually [TS]

00:14:17   exploring new ideas and new approaches [TS]

00:14:21   and maybe aren't successful [TS]

00:14:23   quote-unquote yet ice [TS]

00:14:25   I feel like there's an analogy to be [TS]

00:14:26   made where artists are in some ways the [TS]

00:14:31   city's children [TS]

00:14:32   no not in terms of maturity but well you [TS]

00:14:35   know not strictly speaking but in the [TS]

00:14:36   sense of like you know if you're a [TS]

00:14:37   parent like the dumbest thing that you [TS]

00:14:39   can do is to constantly expect your kid [TS]

00:14:42   to be a grown-up when they're not i mean [TS]

00:14:44   there's so many ways you can fuck that [TS]

00:14:46   up every day for 20 years [TS]

00:14:48   you don't mean like it really is helpful [TS]

00:14:50   to understand that well you know at this [TS]

00:14:52   kids level of development [TS]

00:14:54   this is what they're capable of this is [TS]

00:14:56   what there may be capable of this is [TS]

00:14:58   what [TS]

00:14:58   there should be more capable of but you [TS]

00:15:02   would never expect your kid to like come [TS]

00:15:04   home after school and write a novel in a [TS]

00:15:06   day because that wouldn't but but we [TS]

00:15:08   don't see the same person does not [TS]

00:15:10   expect that you certainly don't expect [TS]

00:15:11   your kid to be profitable you understand [TS]

00:15:13   that your kid is is a cost center rather [TS]

00:15:15   than a profit Center my daughter can't [TS]

00:15:18   even manage to go down to the corner [TS]

00:15:20   store and get me cigarettes and I so [TS]

00:15:21   every day I'm like simple your writing [TS]

00:15:24   on her hand it's simple American you can [TS]

00:15:27   figure it out but where I mean any sane [TS]

00:15:30   person this is a strain analogy but go [TS]

00:15:33   with me any sane person would have those [TS]

00:15:35   reasonable expectations and say plus you [TS]

00:15:38   know your kind of nice to have around [TS]

00:15:40   and I i'm very excited to be here to [TS]

00:15:43   watch you become a more interesting [TS]

00:15:45   person and have a future that I could [TS]

00:15:47   have absolutely no way to even fathom or [TS]

00:15:49   predict right yeah so that you go with [TS]

00:15:52   me on this and then with the city we [TS]

00:15:54   expect it's like we're interested in the [TS]

00:15:56   artist [TS]

00:15:57   if they're successful in the New York [TS]

00:15:58   Times we're not interested in the artist [TS]

00:16:00   when they're just finding their way but [TS]

00:16:02   that attracts a lot of people to a town [TS]

00:16:04   places where you've got an expense but [TS]

00:16:06   inexpensive place to live to kind of [TS]

00:16:09   figure out a thing that you're doing but [TS]

00:16:12   we don't treat them like we don't armed [TS]

00:16:13   guard that like we would a space for [TS]

00:16:15   kids we treat them we treat them like [TS]

00:16:17   dirty hippies who need to have their [TS]

00:16:19   homes turned into places where people [TS]

00:16:20   who work at startups will have the next [TS]

00:16:22   artist is never popular you know the [TS]

00:16:26   though the last artist is is always you [TS]

00:16:30   know the one that people recognize is [TS]

00:16:32   like wow he started from nothing and [TS]

00:16:34   he's there you know he or she now is [TS]

00:16:36   enormously popular and isn't that an [TS]

00:16:38   amazing uplifting story and then the [TS]

00:16:41   next artist is always the is always back [TS]

00:16:46   back to square one right i mean there [TS]

00:16:48   are there are people in the art [TS]

00:16:50   curatorial world that are out there [TS]

00:16:52   digging in the dirt looking for the next [TS]

00:16:55   you know the next big thing but for the [TS]

00:16:58   most part in terms of the way a city [TS]

00:17:00   thinks it it has no provision for the [TS]

00:17:05   fact that hard scrabble is the that is [TS]

00:17:11   the pool where ideas are really [TS]

00:17:13   generated and you know the the the [TS]

00:17:17   mountain view cupertino idea that you [TS]

00:17:20   build it build a tower and you fill it [TS]

00:17:22   with young people from Stanford and [TS]

00:17:24   that's where the ideas are going to come [TS]

00:17:27   from is one is it is like one vision of [TS]

00:17:31   the future but traditionally all those [TS]

00:17:35   ideas come from the all the all the real [TS]

00:17:38   ideas that push progress come from [TS]

00:17:42   people that are in a corner right and a [TS]

00:17:45   and in that crucible and then they have [TS]

00:17:49   they have that flash that comes partly [TS]

00:17:51   because they're under pressure and just [TS]

00:17:53   being under pressure to make a hundred [TS]

00:17:57   million dollars before you're 26 is not [TS]

00:18:00   really creative pressure right and [TS]

00:18:03   that's what that's purely just it's [TS]

00:18:05   there's the the self-motivated component [TS]

00:18:08   but then it's just competition your job [TS]

00:18:09   to get there fast [TS]

00:18:10   it's just ego pressure and that's why we [TS]

00:18:13   have that's why the Internet economy is [TS]

00:18:15   based so much on let's take that one [TS]

00:18:18   idea that somebody once had and and you [TS]

00:18:20   know and put a cat on it or you know [TS]

00:18:23   let's like that lesson modify let's [TS]

00:18:26   modify this idea and modify it again and [TS]

00:18:29   just keep like grinding and and you know [TS]

00:18:33   no really it's not really moving the [TS]

00:18:35   civilization ball forward it's just [TS]

00:18:38   trying to move the Prophet ball around [TS]

00:18:39   right i mean on the way into town today [TS]

00:18:42   I I saw two interesting things i'm [TS]

00:18:44   driving in and there's a i'm driving [TS]

00:18:47   past boeing field and there's a private [TS]

00:18:49   jet parked on the tarmac and it is [TS]

00:18:53   painted in basically tribal tattoo [TS]

00:18:57   graphics and I'm like that's in you know [TS]

00:19:03   like Mike Tyson face tattoo style an [TS]

00:19:07   Aboriginal cavea Polynesian neo [TS]

00:19:10   polynesian tattoo a graphical stuff but [TS]

00:19:14   with no real ethnic aspect it's been you [TS]

00:19:18   know it's been taken out of context [TS]

00:19:19   modified enough that it just looks like [TS]

00:19:21   pointy lines but that's where it's [TS]

00:19:25   coming from and then and so I'm looking [TS]

00:19:26   at it I'm like is this like a is some [TS]

00:19:28   kind of red bowl thing or something and [TS]

00:19:31   then on the on the engine written in [TS]

00:19:35   gothic script so you see where we're [TS]

00:19:38   going now [TS]

00:19:39   no there's some a Latin phrase that's [TS]

00:19:44   basically like if some dough lower or [TS]

00:19:46   you know like literally I don't remember [TS]

00:19:50   what it sounds like vice magazine sit [TS]

00:19:53   but you know even vice has enough [TS]

00:19:54   self-awareness to if they were going to [TS]

00:19:58   make that joke it would have it would [TS]

00:20:01   have had one other element like a [TS]

00:20:03   blanket like a silver skull and [TS]

00:20:05   crossbones or something but this was [TS]

00:20:07   clearly somebody some person who got [TS]

00:20:10   rich and had a like a maxim magazine or [TS]

00:20:17   a lad mag [TS]

00:20:18   a aesthetic and now all the money in the [TS]

00:20:23   world and this was not a small jet [TS]

00:20:26   either you know it's a it's not like it [TS]

00:20:27   wasn't a huge one but like a [TS]

00:20:28   medium-sized like a Gulfstream yeah [TS]

00:20:32   somewhere in the citation gulfstream [TS]

00:20:34   zone and this was their choice right [TS]

00:20:39   this is like I've got my own jet I'm [TS]

00:20:41   gonna make it look badass forget giant [TS]

00:20:44   skateboard badass and you just know when [TS]

00:20:47   you got on board it was just gonna be [TS]

00:20:49   like it was gonna be like being inside [TS]

00:20:52   the Hat of the guy from jam Iroquois [TS]

00:20:56   about it i know exactly which could you [TS]

00:21:03   just climb in that like fake fur hat and [TS]

00:21:06   i'm just i'm driving past I'm just like [TS]

00:21:08   you know that's exactly that's exactly [TS]

00:21:10   the thing right i mean i was thinking [TS]

00:21:13   about I woke up this morning singing I'd [TS]

00:21:15   like to buy the world to cook and I [TS]

00:21:19   thought about it I'm like I still love [TS]

00:21:21   that song it's a really nice song I [TS]

00:21:23   realized like well cokes are expensive [TS]

00:21:27   in America but they're not very [TS]

00:21:28   expensive around the world but let's [TS]

00:21:30   assume that you can buy like over the [TS]

00:21:33   course of the earth the average price of [TS]

00:21:36   a coke let's just say it's 50 cents and [TS]

00:21:38   I think that's way higher [TS]

00:21:40   I think that's way too high i think you [TS]

00:21:41   could probably get if you if you like [TS]

00:21:44   aggregated the cost of coke around the [TS]

00:21:45   world coke is probably three cents a cup [TS]

00:21:47   but let's say it's 50 cents so there are [TS]

00:21:51   actually people lots of a handful but [TS]

00:21:54   lots of people lots of a handful who [TS]

00:21:57   could literally buy the world a coke [TS]

00:21:59   they could buy a coke for every person [TS]

00:22:02   in the world and pay for the logistics [TS]

00:22:04   to supply that Coke to every person in [TS]

00:22:06   the wall that's that's pretty [TS]

00:22:08   astonishing right there are people in [TS]

00:22:10   Seattle who could buy the world a coke [TS]

00:22:13   oh my god so anyway i'm driving past [TS]

00:22:15   this airplane and I'm like this you know [TS]

00:22:17   and what did this guy do is he he's some [TS]

00:22:19   kind of mean it's hard to know whether [TS]

00:22:21   he is on an internet entrepreneur who [TS]

00:22:28   who has it was just broadcasting this [TS]

00:22:31   aesthetic because he's a badass or [TS]

00:22:34   whether he's some kind of actual like he [TS]

00:22:37   owns oakley sunglasses and this branding [TS]

00:22:40   is sort of part of his overall brand of [TS]

00:22:43   like a badass attitude and I'm just [TS]

00:22:45   gonna shake my head and then I pass a [TS]

00:22:48   little one of those little sprint cars [TS]

00:22:51   coming the other way and it says and it [TS]

00:22:56   has the logo of a company across the [TS]

00:22:58   hood of the car and the logo is [TS]

00:23:01   something like graffiti be gone and it's [TS]

00:23:09   a it's a sort of brand new car and a [TS]

00:23:12   startup company who just from the name i [TS]

00:23:17   have to assume is is selling this [TS]

00:23:21   service get out there and really like [TS]

00:23:23   really finally get on top of this plague [TS]

00:23:26   of graffiti that's happening that's [TS]

00:23:30   sweeping the world that's causing our [TS]

00:23:31   cities to be so uninhabitable and it's [TS]

00:23:34   like that the the aesthetic of this [TS]

00:23:38   guy's airplane and the and what these [TS]

00:23:42   people in this little car are imagining [TS]

00:23:45   is the is the is the real trouble here [TS]

00:23:48   the broken windows syndrome and you know [TS]

00:23:53   there's there's just no awareness that [TS]

00:23:55   like I mean graffiti artists are are [TS]

00:23:58   exactly the people who are backed into a [TS]

00:24:00   corner and then produce something at [TS]

00:24:03   their best at the best graffiti work is [TS]

00:24:06   the is you know is up there with the [TS]

00:24:09   best art right and the the worst [TS]

00:24:11   graffiti art like it is still speaking [TS]

00:24:14   in a language that most people don't [TS]

00:24:16   that don't recognize it as a language [TS]

00:24:18   don't understand what's happening over [TS]

00:24:20   at but but there's a whole philosophy [TS]

00:24:22   behind a reclaiming the the Brutalism of [TS]

00:24:26   of the concrete public space we've we [TS]

00:24:31   have we've acquiesced to most of our [TS]

00:24:34   public space being on just bare concrete [TS]

00:24:38   walls the way I talk about under freeway [TS]

00:24:40   passes [TS]

00:24:41   and you know there's so much space in [TS]

00:24:43   the city that we just stood idly by [TS]

00:24:46   while big you know like big [TS]

00:24:50   infrastructure determined that what we [TS]

00:24:52   were going to look at was gray concrete [TS]

00:24:54   and as you're driving around it's just [TS]

00:24:57   like you're gonna you're in a world of [TS]

00:24:58   great concrete and that's the that is an [TS]

00:25:02   aesthetic and it's an aesthetic that is [TS]

00:25:05   practical but it's still a bit still a [TS]

00:25:07   powerful aesthetic and graffiti has a [TS]

00:25:11   whole philosophy or a whole you know a [TS]

00:25:13   its ideological in a way like we're [TS]

00:25:16   reclaiming that space with color at the [TS]

00:25:19   very least and here these guys are [TS]

00:25:21   puttering along you know in their car [TS]

00:25:23   graffiti be gone and i'm sure that that [TS]

00:25:25   what they're doing is going to [TS]

00:25:26   businesses and who had their front doors [TS]

00:25:28   tagged and right you know medicating [TS]

00:25:31   that but I'm just thinking about this [TS]

00:25:34   guy sitting in his jab mera koi plane [TS]

00:25:37   and he's probably on a gold cell phone [TS]

00:25:40   and he's probably talking to a graffiti [TS]

00:25:42   artist about you know putting up a [TS]

00:25:46   putting up a you know a piece em on the [TS]

00:25:50   wall of his you know his concrete [TS]

00:25:54   loft-style office space in down in the [TS]

00:25:59   mission in San remember brother i'm [TS]

00:26:00   presuming this guy lives in San [TS]

00:26:01   Francisco sure I'm and I think it's not [TS]

00:26:03   to take that is right i would like for [TS]

00:26:05   you potentially to write the song about [TS]

00:26:07   this but i think i really like the late [TS]

00:26:09   harry chapin terrain [TS]

00:26:10   yes little twist at the end see he is [TS]

00:26:13   not an uncomfortable lyricist he would [TS]

00:26:15   dive right in [TS]

00:26:16   ma knows how to suck at your [TS]

00:26:17   heartstrings would be like no Henry [TS]

00:26:18   component to it they realized that they [TS]

00:26:21   were like and maybe they're twins [TS]

00:26:22   separated at birth mother feeding the [TS]

00:26:24   creepy guy in the plague I oh hello can [TS]

00:26:26   see there's a twist twist to it you you [TS]

00:26:28   just I just got chills the cat's in the [TS]

00:26:32   cradle and he's it's got his spray paint [TS]

00:26:34   can and the little boy blue and his tag [TS]

00:26:38   on the door and we're going to help when [TS]

00:26:40   you comin home jamiroquai up the reason [TS]

00:26:44   that the reason that i was so enthralled [TS]

00:26:48   by long day's journey into night was [TS]

00:26:50   that you know that play came out in the [TS]

00:26:52   early [TS]

00:26:52   forties and really want it takes place [TS]

00:26:55   earlier right [TS]

00:26:56   yeah I think it looks like it's eugene [TS]

00:26:58   o'neill's childhood right right right [TS]

00:27:00   but you know it was like it was that it [TS]

00:27:05   was that really fruitful period of [TS]

00:27:07   Americans like letters we have the [TS]

00:27:10   middle in the middle of the century the [TS]

00:27:13   modern age man that's right and and that [TS]

00:27:15   so when I think about that like my my [TS]

00:27:19   dad was 21 [TS]

00:27:22   let's say my uncle Jack was 17 and that [TS]

00:27:27   play landed and they but both of those [TS]

00:27:31   guys my dad and his brother both have [TS]

00:27:35   told me many times that that play [TS]

00:27:36   described their family and described [TS]

00:27:41   their household in a way that no other [TS]

00:27:45   work before sentence and they both [TS]

00:27:47   identified so strongly with it and I you [TS]

00:27:52   know I feel like my Uncle Jack had has [TS]

00:27:54   been trying to write his version of a [TS]

00:27:57   long day's journey into night his whole [TS]

00:27:59   life [TS]

00:27:59   wow he sends me drafts of of plays that [TS]

00:28:03   he has been working on about his [TS]

00:28:06   childhood he's in his late eighties now [TS]

00:28:07   that's a sad [TS]

00:28:09   well because those you know those guys [TS]

00:28:11   were trying to make sense of the of the [TS]

00:28:13   of the world they grew up in and this [TS]

00:28:17   was in it this was a one of those great [TS]

00:28:19   moments where a work of art landed and [TS]

00:28:23   it helped and helped my you know he'll [TS]

00:28:28   come on little like a catharsis because [TS]

00:28:30   I mean like a classical sense that we're [TS]

00:28:32   this is an instrument for me I think [TS]

00:28:35   anytime you have something comes along [TS]

00:28:36   that puts a name or a story on to [TS]

00:28:39   something you didn't think had a name or [TS]

00:28:40   a story go oh wow I really see myself in [TS]

00:28:44   this and you can only mean vs yeah and [TS]

00:28:46   that and I feel like they felt really [TS]

00:28:49   alone and isolated growing up it in the [TS]

00:28:52   sense that they were living in a [TS]

00:28:53   community middle-class community where [TS]

00:28:55   their friends didn't have these problems [TS]

00:28:58   there in on that that's a that's a [TS]

00:29:00   little bit of everybody's problem right [TS]

00:29:02   you never know what is happening behind [TS]

00:29:04   closed doors in your friends house [TS]

00:29:06   those right but but here they hear they [TS]

00:29:09   saw their story writ large and when I [TS]

00:29:14   think it changed them both and so as i [TS]

00:29:17   was in when i was 21 and trying to [TS]

00:29:19   understand my own life I would i read [TS]

00:29:23   that play and put and cast my father and [TS]

00:29:26   my uncle in it and it helped me you know [TS]

00:29:29   it's a it's like a work of art that that [TS]

00:29:33   has kind of started to be threaded into [TS]

00:29:36   my family's sense of itself and so I'm [TS]

00:29:43   always try it on but I recognize it as [TS]

00:29:47   as more than just a like a seminal work [TS]

00:29:50   it's you know there's a personal element [TS]

00:29:52   to it because because my grandfather [TS]

00:29:56   didn't wasn't it wasn't able to write [TS]

00:29:59   his own story and my dad never wrote [TS]

00:30:02   that story and my uncle is as tried you [TS]

00:30:06   know we were a lot we lean on artists [TS]

00:30:08   for so much and and they they do so much [TS]

00:30:13   and it's never a thing that you can [TS]

00:30:16   properly put a price on and that's a [TS]

00:30:21   that's a cliche to say but but it's um [TS]

00:30:24   but it's something i'm just i'm thinking [TS]

00:30:27   about all the time like hey we we have [TS]

00:30:30   we have gone so far in that direction of [TS]

00:30:34   trying to figure out like well what [TS]

00:30:36   what's the value of angry birds the [TS]

00:30:41   value of angry birds is over April how [TS]

00:30:44   many people downloaded how many people [TS]

00:30:46   buy it [TS]

00:30:46   yeah and you know and and that is [TS]

00:30:49   reckoned to be over a billion dollars [TS]

00:30:51   and the value of eugene o'neill or the [TS]

00:30:56   value of Mick Jagger even you know is [TS]

00:31:03   reckons to be Mick Jagger is one of the [TS]

00:31:07   richest rock stars in Britain with a [TS]

00:31:09   network worth of 200 million dollars or [TS]

00:31:12   something [TS]

00:31:12   which is one-fifth of the value of angry [TS]

00:31:16   birds and you don't even care numbers [TS]

00:31:21   are right [TS]

00:31:22   that's not a great statistic i'm going [TS]

00:31:23   to use that you know it's all five [TS]

00:31:25   members of The Rolling Stones dealing [TS]

00:31:27   with angry birds they don't reach it the [TS]

00:31:29   other the other the other guys I mean [TS]

00:31:31   having Keith Richards is worth less [TS]

00:31:32   because he had to spend all that money [TS]

00:31:34   getting his blood replaced multiple [TS]

00:31:36   times and then the other guys let's get [TS]

00:31:38   a date you get a day rate yeah they're [TS]

00:31:40   just on salary but like the collected [TS]

00:31:43   works of eugene o'neill has a value in [TS]

00:31:48   our culture of I can only imagine a [TS]

00:31:50   couple million dollars a few million [TS]

00:31:53   dollars and a handful of millions of [TS]

00:31:56   dollars right spread over all the the [TS]

00:32:00   his inheritors and so and so that is you [TS]

00:32:06   know that that's hard for me as I go out [TS]

00:32:08   into the city and say like yes we need [TS]

00:32:12   to build transit absolutely we need to [TS]

00:32:15   build affordable housing absolutely we [TS]

00:32:17   need to provide clean water and work for [TS]

00:32:20   an equitable city but how do you also [TS]

00:32:23   put a value on on the the intangible [TS]

00:32:29   things that make a place special and [TS]

00:32:32   that make us want to stay alive and that [TS]

00:32:35   make us want to um you know that that [TS]

00:32:39   help us live in love and and without [TS]

00:32:42   being able to attach a value to it [TS]

00:32:44   how can you advocate for it how can you [TS]

00:32:47   put it up against something else that is [TS]

00:32:50   that you know is clamoring for this [TS]

00:32:53   those same resources even if those [TS]

00:32:54   resources are just lets leave this space [TS]

00:32:58   alone or let's let's leave these people [TS]

00:33:01   alone [TS]

00:33:02   it's a it's it's a real tangle and a lot [TS]

00:33:07   of people would say well let me just [TS]

00:33:09   clarify do you feel like you get [TS]

00:33:11   implicit pushback because you don't have [TS]

00:33:14   like an economical white paper on the [TS]

00:33:16   value of artists you know 2001-2011 or [TS]

00:33:20   something [TS]

00:33:20   well and the thing is you could make a [TS]

00:33:22   man there are lots of people who want to [TS]

00:33:24   make the argument that [TS]

00:33:25   artists bring it you know they put they [TS]

00:33:26   stick out their Clinton thumb and start [TS]

00:33:28   wagging it and say Clinton i'm sorry/not [TS]

00:33:31   Clinton but the artists have brought in [TS]

00:33:33   over 270 4.6 million dollars into [TS]

00:33:37   seattle economy since march of 2011 is [TS]

00:33:41   like going into a you know that's shown [TS]

00:33:43   up at a gunfight with a knife [TS]

00:33:45   you know that's that's that's not going [TS]

00:33:46   to eat that's like the arguments not [TS]

00:33:47   gonna fly [TS]

00:33:48   well no the argument I mean I feel like [TS]

00:33:50   that argument does fly because people [TS]

00:33:52   love to hear numbers and they and they [TS]

00:33:54   not and they go oh yes it is it's an [TS]

00:33:56   industry just it's an industry [TS]

00:33:58   equivalent to the industry of chroming [TS]

00:34:02   uh hub caps and pipe and bumpers you [TS]

00:34:07   know like if you can package it is it is [TS]

00:34:08   the numbers are what enables it to be [TS]

00:34:10   packaged into something that can be [TS]

00:34:12   easily explained and understood right [TS]

00:34:13   right but no but what what what you're [TS]

00:34:17   talking about there is the last artist [TS]

00:34:19   right the people that made stuff that [TS]

00:34:23   generated money and we recognized their [TS]

00:34:26   value and we go the last artist made us [TS]

00:34:29   to the last artists made 250 million [TS]

00:34:31   dollars for Seattle that's what we do [TS]

00:34:33   support them but I'm always talking [TS]

00:34:35   about the next artists have made nothing [TS]

00:34:37   and you can't yet they have made no [TS]

00:34:40   money for you yet and you can't you [TS]

00:34:43   can't gauge their value by the their [TS]

00:34:46   potential money some of the best artists [TS]

00:34:49   never make any money and we only [TS]

00:34:52   recognized their value later but you [TS]

00:34:54   can't go into seattle public schools and [TS]

00:34:56   say and think of art education as job [TS]

00:35:00   training which is how a lot of people [TS]

00:35:03   think about it and when that resource [TS]

00:35:05   constraints really tighten its not happy [TS]

00:35:08   thing but it's somewhat natural thing to [TS]

00:35:10   go well you know we get these tests [TS]

00:35:12   right and we got out there is not is not [TS]

00:35:14   a test on you know Braque and Picasso [TS]

00:35:16   there is a test on the specific set of [TS]

00:35:20   mathematics jobs jobs jobs well and [TS]

00:35:22   what's crazy is for me like the idea of [TS]

00:35:27   teaching math because it will get you a [TS]

00:35:30   good job is is to I think that [TS]

00:35:35   like it like that disgusting [TS]

00:35:38   undervaluing of the importance of [TS]

00:35:40   learning math like when that becomes I [TS]

00:35:43   mean when that becomes the criteria [TS]

00:35:45   which it is a lot of the time setting [TS]

00:35:46   apart the testing stuff when whether it [TS]

00:35:48   was when you start getting into the like [TS]

00:35:49   whether this gets you a job thing you [TS]

00:35:52   start to really sour a lot of what makes [TS]

00:35:54   education good in the first place i'm [TS]

00:35:55   not just saying that as a liberal arts [TS]

00:35:57   fruit but justjust even any of the [TS]

00:35:59   intrinsic reasons why you won't might [TS]

00:36:02   want to be a more rounded educated and [TS]

00:36:04   exposed to the world person starts to [TS]

00:36:07   fall away if that's your bar right well [TS]

00:36:09   and you think about what is math I mean [TS]

00:36:12   be the trade it you know it's the [TS]

00:36:16   computer mattock computer maths are [TS]

00:36:18   attracted yeah but math i mean the the [TS]

00:36:21   the many atheists listening to our [TS]

00:36:23   program who live in Brandenburg or [TS]

00:36:27   somewhere it around Lake balitaan and [TS]

00:36:30   hungry i know that they're out there [TS]

00:36:32   they're going to see the four doors from [TS]

00:36:34   here if they're going to objected this [TS]

00:36:35   but you know math is the language of God [TS]

00:36:38   right it's that it's you look over God [TS]

00:36:40   shoulder for a moment and I got you mean [TS]

00:36:42   Richard Dawkins and by god I mean all of [TS]

00:36:45   the all of the uncaused causes all the [TS]

00:36:48   random reverse movers all the great [TS]

00:36:50   first movers all the negative numbers [TS]

00:36:52   and and so you know it is it is both the [TS]

00:36:57   human thought technology math I mean [TS]

00:37:00   negative numbers right [TS]

00:37:02   it's a thought technology but also it is [TS]

00:37:04   an uncovering it is a discovery of a [TS]

00:37:06   thing it is a school discovery of the [TS]

00:37:09   first principle and to equate that with [TS]

00:37:12   like to equate learning that with like [TS]

00:37:16   developing some skills that are really [TS]

00:37:18   going to help you later in life as [TS]

00:37:19   opposed to like should we not all be [TS]

00:37:22   thinking about this all the time should [TS]

00:37:24   not math and higher math and the [TS]

00:37:27   implications of math not be on our minds [TS]

00:37:30   all the time because they they should be [TS]

00:37:33   we should be looking at everything [TS]

00:37:35   through a lens of math because it is the [TS]

00:37:38   only reason that that the things we've [TS]

00:37:41   built our standing and it's the that as [TS]

00:37:44   far as i can tell the only coherent [TS]

00:37:48   like fabric to explain any kind of what [TS]

00:37:54   almost everything comes down to math [TS]

00:37:57   right and that's it and it's a bit [TS]

00:37:59   it's beautiful poetry and and and a [TS]

00:38:04   certain at the level of molecular [TS]

00:38:06   biology or or a particle physics or you [TS]

00:38:09   know like it all is this unified theory [TS]

00:38:13   that we're with that we've been [TS]

00:38:14   struggling to do to find are struggling [TS]

00:38:16   to reconcile with gravity and that [TS]

00:38:19   should be at a certain level like our [TS]

00:38:24   temple we should go to that all of us [TS]

00:38:27   every week or every day and say wow who [TS]

00:38:31   we've really you know we've really [TS]

00:38:34   figured out a lot in recent memory [TS]

00:38:36   just in the last hundred wherein also [TS]

00:38:39   refigured things out that's the other [TS]

00:38:40   just that's the neat thing about science [TS]

00:38:41   that we are always trying to say like [TS]

00:38:45   did I get that right yeah let's keep [TS]

00:38:47   checking that right and so then you go [TS]

00:38:49   into the schools and you imagine like [TS]

00:38:52   all the constraints on people even ones [TS]

00:38:54   who feel that poetry and go into [TS]

00:38:56   teaching full of that that poetry and [TS]

00:39:01   then you know requiring them to Governor [TS]

00:39:05   to teach in prose and little by little [TS]

00:39:10   you just drain that poetry out of all [TS]

00:39:14   those experiences and kids are sitting [TS]

00:39:15   there and they're just like I'm in [TS]

00:39:17   prison and and it's almost unavoidable [TS]

00:39:21   in the pressures from parents like is he [TS]

00:39:24   going to make it is she going to be a [TS]

00:39:25   good she going to be a good human is she [TS]

00:39:28   going to get through to the other side [TS]

00:39:29   and be one of the good humans [TS]

00:39:31   well can't catch up in yeah i think [TS]

00:39:33   there's this couple things on the table [TS]

00:39:35   here that are that are really [TS]

00:39:36   interesting and I you know I grew up in [TS]

00:39:39   Cincinnati where we had a really good [TS]

00:39:40   public school system and and yes i'm [TS]

00:39:43   sorry there is about to be a little bit [TS]

00:39:45   of bagging on Florida coming in a minute [TS]

00:39:46   I apologize in advance [TS]

00:39:48   now let me just ask before you get [TS]

00:39:49   started yes please did you ever [TS]

00:39:52   I mean I'm and I think I know the answer [TS]

00:39:53   but did you carry a giant comb with the [TS]

00:39:55   handle sticking out of your back pocket [TS]

00:39:57   yeah good come did you carry and really [TS]

00:40:00   a good brand com tried it [TS]

00:40:01   not a monster no especially on well [TS]

00:40:03   here's the thing is well I'm glad you [TS]

00:40:05   asked this question John when I was [TS]

00:40:07   younger at home a family would have a [TS]

00:40:10   large goody com something on the order [TS]

00:40:12   of maybe you know six six to eight [TS]

00:40:14   inches right right and then there's a [TS]

00:40:16   new thought technology in the early [TS]

00:40:18   eighties where they made him small you [TS]

00:40:20   can put in your pocket and that would [TS]

00:40:22   stick out of your right back pocket of [TS]

00:40:24   your of your Levi's a quarter eyes [TS]

00:40:26   you're right back pocket let me I cannot [TS]

00:40:29   be more clear gonna comb right back [TS]

00:40:33   pocket times facing in facing toward [TS]

00:40:37   your seam i have pre cisely the exact [TS]

00:40:42   same mental picture you'll never have in [TS]

00:40:43   your left pocket and you never had the [TS]

00:40:44   time facing out no come on my god [TS]

00:40:47   well memory come from the problem is I [TS]

00:40:49   never had a goodie calm and I remember [TS]

00:40:52   and remember whoa we aspire to have a [TS]

00:40:54   good kind did I aspired to have a good [TS]

00:40:56   command of the problem was i guess like [TS]

00:40:58   couldn't keep from losing things or my [TS]

00:41:00   mom never recognize is why we can't have [TS]

00:41:02   nice cones right [TS]

00:41:04   my mom would buy me one of those combs [TS]

00:41:05   that you would find in a men's room more [TS]

00:41:07   than once they were like that would [TS]

00:41:08   break [TS]

00:41:09   oh yeah you know in a jar of a light [TS]

00:41:11   blue just an actor I'm not gonna carry [TS]

00:41:15   one of those around us that we secure it [TS]

00:41:17   comes to carry come around he does that [TS]

00:41:19   yea big come with the handle sticking [TS]

00:41:20   out and come on the one hand the [TS]

00:41:23   Cincinnati school system was a risk [TS]

00:41:25   because it was terrific i mean you know [TS]

00:41:26   is maybe this might have just been the [TS]

00:41:29   time and the place but whatever any case [TS]

00:41:31   i can say is that making the jump to [TS]

00:41:32   then going to public school in Florida [TS]

00:41:33   was a was a very different thing and [TS]

00:41:35   I've said this numerous times in the [TS]

00:41:37   past and i don't mean to be disparaging [TS]

00:41:38   because it's hard to do things but we [TS]

00:41:41   had a single vocational wheel a [TS]

00:41:44   generally anything like this but in sin [TS]

00:41:45   ti I don't think we did I love that I [TS]

00:41:48   love it so far [TS]

00:41:49   okay well this is this is a you know as [TS]

00:41:51   you like to say the sun coast of florida [TS]

00:41:52   in nineteen so I didn't go to seventh [TS]

00:41:55   grade in public schools but those who [TS]

00:41:57   did go to grips of sounds great in the [TS]

00:41:59   junior high school so its seventh the [TS]

00:42:00   ninth grade you have all these [TS]

00:42:01   vocational tracks you have you how you [TS]

00:42:03   can take a health class you can take on [TS]

00:42:05   marketing you can take graphic arts or [TS]

00:42:08   that's called drafting back then you can [TS]

00:42:11   take wood shop you can take metal shop [TS]

00:42:13   and so on and so forth and those were [TS]

00:42:15   really like you by eighth grade when I [TS]

00:42:17   went there you had to take at least one [TS]

00:42:19   of these trade classes now the year that [TS]

00:42:22   i missed the year before every seventh [TS]

00:42:24   grader in at least in pasco county had [TS]

00:42:26   to go through some of the complications [TS]

00:42:26   wheel which is where you spent two weeks [TS]

00:42:29   in each other vocational classes [TS]

00:42:32   Oh which on the one hand is a pretty [TS]

00:42:34   brilliant idea because it's it's nice to [TS]

00:42:36   have exposure to all those who make a [TS]

00:42:37   lamp you make a toolbox you do all that [TS]

00:42:39   stuff you know you learn to sell pencils [TS]

00:42:40   at the school store you learn to use a [TS]

00:42:42   t-square etc etc on the face with very [TS]

00:42:44   cool but I remember even then having the [TS]

00:42:47   feeling that I later greatly expanded as [TS]

00:42:49   I got older that you start we have the I [TS]

00:42:52   think we all have that day it comes at [TS]

00:42:54   different ages but you start to realize [TS]

00:42:55   wow [TS]

00:42:56   schools not just about teaching me math [TS]

00:43:00   and english and science you know when [TS]

00:43:02   you're very young maybe you figure out [TS]

00:43:03   schools kind of about teaching me to be [TS]

00:43:04   places on time [TS]

00:43:05   mmm stand in line but by the time it [TS]

00:43:08   gets really hairy because by the time [TS]

00:43:09   you get to junior high your before you [TS]

00:43:12   really transition into the whole like [TS]

00:43:13   your stuff you need to learn for college [TS]

00:43:15   is this weird period we're almost [TS]

00:43:16   everything you're exposed to in junior [TS]

00:43:18   high is about following rules and not [TS]

00:43:21   becoming a burden on society [TS]

00:43:22   yeah I think that's kind of what it is [TS]

00:43:24   and I think we don't we don't say that [TS]

00:43:26   although we kind of realized that while [TS]

00:43:27   place with good schools tend to have [TS]

00:43:29   better results isn't that a funny [TS]

00:43:30   coincidence but I just remember feeling [TS]

00:43:32   at the time that like in that instance I [TS]

00:43:34   you know and this is even still when we [TS]

00:43:37   had music classes this isn't even still [TS]

00:43:39   when we had art classes which now are [TS]

00:43:41   kind of like little side things in our [TS]

00:43:42   public school not like a main thing you [TS]

00:43:44   don't get you don't get PE math or [TS]

00:43:47   excuse me okpe art and music every day [TS]

00:43:48   it's something you go and do like an [TS]

00:43:51   assembly anyhow that was one thing that [TS]

00:43:53   really struck me and so I mean I not [TS]

00:43:57   that that's a bad thing put in a [TS]

00:43:58   different way I should be feeling like [TS]

00:44:00   it was like a starlet felt Stalinist in [TS]

00:44:02   a sense of like everybody remember when [TS]

00:44:04   we were kids and you'd say like well you [TS]

00:44:06   know in the Soviet Union you get a test [TS]

00:44:07   when you're 12 years old that decides [TS]

00:44:08   what you do for the rest of your life [TS]

00:44:09   right and i can remember feeling like [TS]

00:44:11   well this test message here is like all [TS]

00:44:14   the suburban kids that can pull it off [TS]

00:44:15   and make it into algebra algebra algebra [TS]

00:44:17   like we know they're going to be pretty [TS]

00:44:19   ok we know what track their on what [TS]

00:44:21   about these other kids they're not [TS]

00:44:22   coming in as much like they need to [TS]

00:44:24   learn how to make a toolbox sweater a [TS]

00:44:27   pencil pencil holder [TS]

00:44:28   yeah so anyway I don't give me thoughts [TS]

00:44:30   on that but that that was a thought that [TS]

00:44:32   occurred to me but the larger larger [TS]

00:44:34   point I want to get the part two is and [TS]

00:44:36   I'm gonna play the race card a little [TS]

00:44:38   bit when we talk about things like is [TS]

00:44:41   this a community that is friendly to art [TS]

00:44:43   and artists is this a community where [TS]

00:44:45   there's enough is enough room in the [TS]

00:44:49   lower middle class for people to come in [TS]

00:44:51   here without having a full-time you know [TS]

00:44:53   about having a typical career bases full [TS]

00:44:55   time job and do interesting things you [TS]

00:44:58   know how you put a value on that what [TS]

00:45:00   you're struggling with that [TS]

00:45:01   how do you here's the thing though how [TS]

00:45:02   do you put a value on diversity and bite [TS]

00:45:05   I mean do I mean every kind of diversity [TS]

00:45:07   right i think the first kind diversity [TS]

00:45:09   is are you around people that are not [TS]

00:45:11   your same race and gender but are you [TS]

00:45:14   also around are you around people that [TS]

00:45:16   are different differing economic classes [TS]

00:45:18   and backgrounds have more locked in or [TS]

00:45:21   less locked in futures you know what i [TS]

00:45:23   mean and i guess i feel like in this in [TS]

00:45:26   the same way maybe as the artist issue [TS]

00:45:30   is this deeper issue of well we don't [TS]

00:45:33   really notice diversity until it's gone [TS]

00:45:35   until it's quote-unquote like under [TS]

00:45:37   control but i can tell you times the [TS]

00:45:39   donuts that moving to this town has a [TS]

00:45:41   white guy in a nation neighborhood in [TS]

00:45:43   1999 they were a lot more black people [TS]

00:45:46   living in the entire Bay Area I mean [TS]

00:45:49   they're still people in oakland but [TS]

00:45:50   knowing you know less let's get this get [TS]

00:45:52   more expensive too but like the the [TS]

00:45:53   diversity is people at the money can [TS]

00:45:57   afford to come in [TS]

00:45:58   okay i'm gonna be kind of simple for a [TS]

00:46:01   minute but the people who can afford to [TS]

00:46:02   come in push-up the other people and now [TS]

00:46:04   it is why people pushing out why people [TS]

00:46:05   like it's becoming and you know any of [TS]

00:46:08   the any of the weather your personal [TS]

00:46:09   color or not but it is the appt class is [TS]

00:46:11   moving in let's make no mistake about it [TS]

00:46:12   its people in finance and people in [TS]

00:46:14   ventura county funded companies and big [TS]

00:46:17   corporations but it is certainly not [TS]

00:46:19   becoming more interesting and it's [TS]

00:46:21   certainly not becoming more diverse and [TS]

00:46:23   it's certainly it's a lot of people who [TS]

00:46:25   are doing things like making the house [TS]

00:46:27   that somebody else was thrown out of [TS]

00:46:28   turns into a condo and now the [TS]

00:46:30   restaurants the bars around there get [TS]

00:46:31   much moved out because they're making [TS]

00:46:33   too much noise and so I don't have a [TS]

00:46:35   unified field theory here but like in [TS]

00:46:36   the same way i've seen this in with work [TS]

00:46:38   I've done in the past there was a time [TS]

00:46:39   when the value of user experience [TS]

00:46:42   was thought of as just you know spray on [TS]

00:46:45   usability you just go in and make some [TS]

00:46:46   changes blah blah you guys go do your [TS]

00:46:47   coloring and now you realize you don't [TS]

00:46:49   understand this [TS]

00:46:50   the difference being a good experience [TS]

00:46:51   with an airline a bad experience with an [TS]

00:46:53   airline even just based on their website [TS]

00:46:55   will completely change your feeling [TS]

00:46:56   about the company you're feeling if [TS]

00:46:58   you're if you are an artist and a person [TS]

00:46:59   of color and you come into a town you're [TS]

00:47:01   gonna know in 10 minutes how welcome you [TS]

00:47:02   are there and whether that's a place [TS]

00:47:04   where you can make a life so I don't [TS]

00:47:07   know how you quantify that except by [TS]

00:47:08   saying having that having some kind of [TS]

00:47:10   diversity as much as the economy and the [TS]

00:47:12   people compare like makes it a better [TS]

00:47:14   place [TS]

00:47:15   well the the the tendency are on the [TS]

00:47:19   west coast and I think this is the [TS]

00:47:20   tendency increasingly everywhere is to [TS]

00:47:23   practice liberalism in a in a very sort [TS]

00:47:29   of well to practice lip-service [TS]

00:47:32   liberalism right and what that ends up [TS]

00:47:35   looking like is that diversity is [TS]

00:47:38   welcomed as long as it's within the well [TS]

00:47:43   as long as it's within the confines of [TS]

00:47:44   bourgeois values and culture right so we [TS]

00:47:50   welcome all people into our bushwa [TS]

00:47:53   envelope of values what we do not [TS]

00:47:57   understand how to do is to provide [TS]

00:48:02   opportunities for people who are not [TS]

00:48:06   trying to who you know who are trying to [TS]

00:48:08   move into a booj wall state but who are [TS]

00:48:13   at literally struggling to survive or [TS]

00:48:17   literally struggling to just you know to [TS]

00:48:20   remain right just to remain in place and [TS]

00:48:24   not be displaced from their own homes [TS]

00:48:27   and communities and so Seattle has a has [TS]

00:48:31   a great record of diversity in [TS]

00:48:36   government diversity and you know in in [TS]

00:48:39   the in like public hiring and I mean we [TS]

00:48:42   we have tried and tried and tried to [TS]

00:48:45   live up to our own standards [TS]

00:48:50   but we still don't understand how [TS]

00:48:52   important it is that neighborhoods [TS]

00:48:55   remain intact or that they're you know [TS]

00:48:57   that for a young white artists living on [TS]

00:49:01   Capitol Hill the experiences incredibly [TS]

00:49:03   different than that from that of a young [TS]

00:49:06   black artist living in the central [TS]

00:49:08   district and you know that that feeling [TS]

00:49:11   of like great work comes from being [TS]

00:49:13   backed into a corner but there's a [TS]

00:49:15   certain point where you're backed into [TS]

00:49:17   the corner and and either under threat [TS]

00:49:20   of violence or just right you can't you [TS]

00:49:23   know like there is no corner for you [TS]

00:49:25   because it's um you know you're backed [TS]

00:49:29   into an i think that distinction is [TS]

00:49:31   utterly lost on some people that there [TS]

00:49:32   is a distinction between having a place [TS]

00:49:34   where you can struggle to make friends [TS]

00:49:36   don't make it and a place where the [TS]

00:49:37   typical rent is five times what anybody [TS]

00:49:40   could ever scrape together [TS]

00:49:41   yeah really big difference and and just [TS]

00:49:43   you know I think a lot of a lot of white [TS]

00:49:45   kids who are making art and music like [TS]

00:49:47   schlep around in the town and they you [TS]

00:49:50   know and they they walked from dark [TS]

00:49:52   doorway to dark doorway and they feel [TS]

00:49:54   like they are living a rough and and [TS]

00:49:57   living a dangerous downtown life and [TS]

00:50:01   that informs their art and character but [TS]

00:50:04   when the police slowly cruise by and [TS]

00:50:08   look them up and down and they stand [TS]

00:50:11   there in their dark door when they go on [TS]

00:50:12   man the fucking cops just scoped me fuck [TS]

00:50:15   those guys [TS]

00:50:16   the difference is that they kept the [TS]

00:50:18   cops kept driving right they scoped them [TS]

00:50:21   they gave him a dirty look [TS]

00:50:23   scumbags and but they kept driving and [TS]

00:50:26   the and the young white artist feels [TS]

00:50:28   like oh you know i'm i'm the grit of the [TS]

00:50:32   city is really informing my views and [TS]

00:50:35   I'm going to take that back to the art [TS]

00:50:37   that I'm making that basically coops the [TS]

00:50:40   history of jazz and hip-hop and I'm [TS]

00:50:44   gonna that's gonna be some meaty you [TS]

00:50:47   know gnarly shit [TS]

00:50:48   well the you know the young black guy in [TS]

00:50:51   the same exact situation who is probably [TS]

00:50:54   actively trying to stay out of dark [TS]

00:50:56   doorways a the cops roll by and turn on [TS]

00:51:01   their flashers and and pull [TS]

00:51:03   over and and ask for his ID and where [TS]

00:51:07   does he live and what's he doing out [TS]

00:51:09   right and that little bit of difference [TS]

00:51:11   is the thing that you know you hear [TS]

00:51:13   reported over and over and and yet it's [TS]

00:51:17   very it's impossible to know how that [TS]

00:51:20   changes your feeling when you are backed [TS]

00:51:23   into a corner in your own art making [TS]

00:51:26   when you are you know when you're poor [TS]

00:51:28   and and are struggling and and saying to [TS]

00:51:32   yourself [TS]

00:51:33   can I even be an artist can I even make [TS]

00:51:35   this stuff i need to do it but i also [TS]

00:51:39   have to survive and you know and that [TS]

00:51:42   that decision making and that's that and [TS]

00:51:44   that what ends up happening is that that [TS]

00:51:46   you do have a an increasingly bushwa art [TS]

00:51:50   culture where the people who are able to [TS]

00:51:52   make it through are the ones that in [TS]

00:51:55   that moment can call their folks and say [TS]

00:52:00   can you cover my rent this month or you [TS]

00:52:02   know and that's not that's not a slight [TS]

00:52:05   on anybody it's just that you there are [TS]

00:52:07   so many people have to drop out at that [TS]

00:52:10   moment right then and there not making [TS]

00:52:12   things then and they are embittered and [TS]

00:52:16   rightfully so and having that [TS]

00:52:19   conversation with with the city at large [TS]

00:52:21   particularly in a world where people [TS]

00:52:23   want to say look the market is the [TS]

00:52:27   market it's it's just what it is it's [TS]

00:52:30   not a there's no malice attached to it [TS]

00:52:33   it's just a natural system that's a [TS]

00:52:36   privileged well and and and in a way [TS]

00:52:40   like I mean I hear that from from all [TS]

00:52:43   walks of life the idea that we have set [TS]

00:52:46   in motion a system which is organic that [TS]

00:52:51   the market is just humans and the end [TS]

00:52:56   its and in a way it's just it's just a [TS]

00:52:59   language we've given ourselves to [TS]

00:53:01   express our natural desire to trade who [TS]

00:53:06   or whatever and so this you know this [TS]

00:53:08   rampant and and at with no awareness or [TS]

00:53:12   less awareness of the fact that it's the [TS]

00:53:14   the market is rigged all every step of [TS]

00:53:16   the way that that's what I mean when I [TS]

00:53:17   say privilege I didn't mean to use that [TS]

00:53:18   the code word but you know I'm becoming [TS]

00:53:21   more I guess sensitive in some ways to [TS]

00:53:23   that in myself and in singing in others [TS]

00:53:25   but in the case of somebody who's that [TS]

00:53:27   economically privileged you know folks [TS]

00:53:29   with a lot of money biggest problem they [TS]

00:53:32   face is losing some of their lot of [TS]

00:53:33   money so in a down economy where things [TS]

00:53:36   go wrong so in and up economy they get [TS]

00:53:39   to go hey hey market right and you say [TS]

00:53:41   well of course this is the market to [TS]

00:53:42   market is a market because I'm just [TS]

00:53:44   benefiting from this completely natural [TS]

00:53:46   thing because we can all agree on cheese [TS]

00:53:47   this is what the market is the market is [TS]

00:53:49   that I get lots of money because things [TS]

00:53:50   are going great right and then when [TS]

00:53:52   things go less great they still can find [TS]

00:53:54   a way to get by and that's not because [TS]

00:53:56   they're brilliant is because they have [TS]

00:53:58   lots of money and connections and but [TS]

00:53:59   that is even though that is the elephant [TS]

00:54:01   in the room [TS]

00:54:02   you sound like a conspiratorial nut when [TS]

00:54:05   you try to point that out to somebody [TS]

00:54:06   because everybody thinks their life is [TS]

00:54:08   hard it is everybody's life is hard its [TS]

00:54:09   way right I'm gonna be you know inhumane [TS]

00:54:12   about it but it is it's a little [TS]

00:54:14   disingenuous to call it just the market [TS]

00:54:16   when there's all kinds of things like me [TS]

00:54:18   might be getting subsidies or tax [TS]

00:54:19   credits all these different kinds of [TS]

00:54:20   ways that you can you can game the [TS]

00:54:22   system and then still call it the market [TS]

00:54:24   what's its that's not that's not the [TS]

00:54:25   market [TS]

00:54:26   I mean the market is you go down and try [TS]

00:54:29   to find fresh food in your neighborhood [TS]

00:54:30   where there's no groceries that's what [TS]

00:54:31   the market is the market is you go to [TS]

00:54:33   7-eleven by a brown banana for two [TS]

00:54:34   dollars that's the market brown banana [TS]

00:54:36   that was a great movie that is that the [TS]

00:54:40   one with the chloe sevigny Chloe quote [TS]

00:54:42   closets starts jolie show they [TS]

00:54:45   accidentally a ceviche you see that [TS]

00:54:47   scene I never did know it's hard to [TS]

00:54:49   watch [TS]

00:54:49   ya know I wasn't interested it's not you [TS]

00:54:51   not my stuff what'swhat's really curious [TS]

00:54:54   to me lately you know the last week or [TS]

00:54:56   two has been really hard for me i've [TS]

00:54:58   been i've had a you know a lot of [TS]

00:55:01   anxiety a feeling that I'm that I'm [TS]

00:55:04   behind the eight ball and running to [TS]

00:55:06   catch up and you know maybe [TS]

00:55:10   coincidentally a lot of the people that [TS]

00:55:13   were my room my real brain trust all [TS]

00:55:18   took vacations all at once and so I [TS]

00:55:21   recognized how important it is for me to [TS]

00:55:23   sit just sit with friends and talk about [TS]

00:55:26   what's going on when they [TS]

00:55:28   these are really going on and I was [TS]

00:55:31   feeling very alone and and i was i'm [TS]

00:55:34   going through this process of fulfilling [TS]

00:55:40   the you know for checking off the boxes [TS]

00:55:43   that a candidate for public office has [TS]

00:55:46   to have to do you know fulfill bees [TS]

00:55:49   these obligations and it's a it's a it's [TS]

00:55:54   been an incredible learning experience [TS]

00:55:56   because we talk about you and I we talk [TS]

00:55:59   about conspiracy a lot or the the sense [TS]

00:56:03   that a lot of people have that that the [TS]

00:56:06   system's rigged or game door that there [TS]

00:56:08   is mountains and about the reality that [TS]

00:56:10   like giving human nature how relatively [TS]

00:56:13   few things ever even could be a [TS]

00:56:15   conspiracy and what ends up happening so [TS]

00:56:18   so what I've been going through is every [TS]

00:56:20   I don't mean to say going through like [TS]

00:56:22   it's a you know like I have like I'm [TS]

00:56:25   going through chemo but like every [TS]

00:56:28   legislative district in the city has its [TS]

00:56:32   own democratic party organization and [TS]

00:56:38   those party organizations have you know [TS]

00:56:41   there's a there's a chairperson [TS]

00:56:42   secretary sergeant-at-arms there are [TS]

00:56:47   there are rank-and-file of different you [TS]

00:56:53   know [TS]

00:56:53   LD oohs and all these different jobs [TS]

00:56:56   that people have and it's a it's a it's [TS]

00:56:59   a form of organization of voluntary [TS]

00:57:01   organization that that people love to do [TS]

00:57:04   it right it they these groups are [TS]

00:57:08   exactly like a lot of people I met in [TS]

00:57:13   rock-and-roll who love to talk about the [TS]

00:57:17   liner notes on records they're like [TS]

00:57:20   walks there walks right and so there are [TS]

00:57:23   there are so many more people who like [TS]

00:57:26   to talk about records then there are [TS]

00:57:29   people who make records right and and as [TS]

00:57:32   a music-maker I I never fully understood [TS]

00:57:36   the dough the record store maven I and I [TS]

00:57:43   know a lot of musicians who are also [TS]

00:57:44   record store mavens but for the most [TS]

00:57:46   part like the people who sit and collect [TS]

00:57:49   records who consume music in that way [TS]

00:57:51   but who think about like who the [TS]

00:57:52   original bass player was what the studio [TS]

00:57:54   Rapinoe like what the b-side was what [TS]

00:57:58   label it was on all that collecting and [TS]

00:58:01   churning of information cattle [TS]

00:58:03   cataloging librarian that librarian [TS]

00:58:07   impulse that we have ya in rock and roll [TS]

00:58:09   and there are people like that in the [TS]

00:58:11   nerd world there are but you know the [TS]

00:58:13   tech world there are people it's like [TS]

00:58:15   words yeah right [TS]

00:58:16   ultimate expression of it i mean like [TS]

00:58:18   even like when I was a little kid I was [TS]

00:58:19   I was more into like things like [TS]

00:58:21   statistics in the baseball cards in the [TS]

00:58:22   averages in the on-base percentages and [TS]

00:58:24   stuff and I wasn't actually watching a [TS]

00:58:26   game [TS]

00:58:26   yeah right i would say with dnd there's [TS]

00:58:28   there's people who are just into this [TS]

00:58:30   the culture and Walker e of it and so so [TS]

00:58:32   there there's a huge community of people [TS]

00:58:36   in politics who have that same impulse [TS]

00:58:40   that same desire to get together and [TS]

00:58:42   that then and there the language that [TS]

00:58:44   they get to use is Robert's Rules of [TS]

00:58:46   Order which feels very you know which is [TS]

00:58:50   official feeling and powerful and they [TS]

00:58:53   have jobs in the Democratic Party is a [TS]

00:58:56   is actually the one of two parties in [TS]

00:58:59   America that ever has power so so they [TS]

00:59:03   feel empowered right there part of their [TS]

00:59:06   part of a big operation and so people [TS]

00:59:11   run for office and they need to go [TS]

00:59:13   around and meet these Democratic [TS]

00:59:16   district organizations talk to them and [TS]

00:59:19   earn their endorsement and you see it [TS]

00:59:23   you see this go down right everybody has [TS]

00:59:26   all the time in the world and they don't [TS]

00:59:28   they have the time maybe to read your [TS]

00:59:30   thing but they don't really have the [TS]

00:59:32   time to sit with you for half an hour [TS]

00:59:33   and talk to you and so what they do is [TS]

00:59:37   invite all the candidates to come in [TS]

00:59:39   each person gets to speak for one minute [TS]

00:59:41   and then the the group of people who [TS]

00:59:46   have come to the this meeting vote [TS]

00:59:49   on them and how like how it's really [TS]

00:59:51   this is that simple [TS]

00:59:52   horse horse flesh and so you so part of [TS]

00:59:57   running for office is you have to [TS]

00:59:57   running for office is you have to [TS]

01:00:00   able to go into a room and in one minute [TS]

01:00:03   layout you order your plan for [TS]

01:00:08   government but for an entire city [TS]

01:00:12   yeah but you don't get a whole minute [TS]

01:00:14   you get a minute huh [TS]

01:00:15   and then based on that and when and you [TS]

01:00:20   know and whatever research the people in [TS]

01:00:22   the room have done independently then [TS]

01:00:24   they decided to endorse you or not and [TS]

01:00:26   that endorsement is either valuable or [TS]

01:00:28   not depending on how many of them you [TS]

01:00:30   can rack up and whether or not you're [TS]

01:00:33   running as an insider and outsider you [TS]

01:00:35   know it's but but the candidates [TS]

01:00:39   I mean nobody has time to sit and talk [TS]

01:00:40   to the candidates for 30 minutes but the [TS]

01:00:42   candidates have to run all around town [TS]

01:00:44   and all basically together in a pack IC [TS]

01:00:47   IC the people i'm running against now [TS]

01:00:49   every day and we're all standing there [TS]

01:00:51   giving our one-minute speech and we [TS]

01:00:53   don't we're not really inclined to be [TS]

01:00:57   chummy with each other we are complete [TS]

01:00:59   competing but really where the only [TS]

01:01:01   other people that know what this feels [TS]

01:01:03   like [TS]

01:01:04   so you stand there and you look at the [TS]

01:01:05   you look at your opponent with I mean I [TS]

01:01:08   i look at them with sympathy in my eyes [TS]

01:01:09   and just go like how you holding up you [TS]

01:01:12   know is everything fine and they kind of [TS]

01:01:14   just give me the like uncomfortable like [TS]

01:01:17   oh hello weird handshake and I'm like [TS]

01:01:20   seriously though I mean this is really [TS]

01:01:22   hard and they're like mmm and then they [TS]

01:01:24   get up and make the Clinton thumb and [TS]

01:01:26   give the speech and and i give this i [TS]

01:01:30   give my you know I can't have very still [TS]

01:01:33   distant still working on them because [TS]

01:01:35   still doesn't like to give a wonderful [TS]

01:01:37   learning the chorus [TS]

01:01:38   yeah and-and-and I watch it and i think [TS]

01:01:41   from the outside [TS]

01:01:43   this seems like a conspiracy right you [TS]

01:01:47   have to do these things these people are [TS]

01:01:50   all insiders they are you know the the [TS]

01:01:54   logic of it from outside the system is [TS]

01:01:57   there just voting for their friends no [TS]

01:02:00   new blood can never get through here you [TS]

01:02:02   know this is how we think of the [TS]

01:02:03   political system right yeah but from [TS]

01:02:06   inside it I see like what a hodgepodge [TS]

01:02:12   of accident it is you know and how this [TS]

01:02:15   is a these meetings are kind of like a [TS]

01:02:19   vestigial version of the town meetings [TS]

01:02:22   of old New England you know then and and [TS]

01:02:25   the people there are really proud of [TS]

01:02:27   participating in the democratic process [TS]

01:02:29   and the degree to which this isn't very [TS]

01:02:33   democratic and all and then ultimately [TS]

01:02:35   the decision is being made by a vote of [TS]

01:02:38   25 people whether or not to endorse one [TS]

01:02:42   of these candidates and 25 people or [TS]

01:02:44   however many voting not to be too [TS]

01:02:47   dismissive but really based on like at [TS]

01:02:49   who presents well given the context menu [TS]

01:02:52   that's a microcosm of a much bigger dog [TS]

01:02:55   and pony show but really to decide that [TS]

01:02:58   based on [TS]

01:02:58   I mean is it really just that appearance [TS]

01:03:00   there's no like white paper or anything [TS]

01:03:02   like that you just go in like that how [TS]

01:03:04   they like the horse flash after 60 [TS]

01:03:05   seconds they can you know they can go [TS]

01:03:07   online and do as much research as they [TS]

01:03:08   want but there but that's not it does [TS]

01:03:11   not appear to meet some of the people [TS]

01:03:13   know but some of them are just this is [TS]

01:03:16   there this is their moment and that [TS]

01:03:18   moment that one minute of you speaking [TS]

01:03:19   to them is more than most voters know [TS]

01:03:24   about candidates right yeah most voters [TS]

01:03:26   do not even see a minute of them and so [TS]

01:03:29   it does not like so many things in [TS]

01:03:33   public life it doesn't feel like a [TS]

01:03:35   conspiracy once you're there but the end [TS]

01:03:37   result of it looks like the product of a [TS]

01:03:42   conspiracy because the only people that [TS]

01:03:44   really can make it all the way through [TS]

01:03:46   this hazing and make it you know and and [TS]

01:03:50   go through all of these things and do [TS]

01:03:52   this effectively are people who are [TS]

01:03:55   either very practiced in the art of it [TS]

01:03:57   or who have a lot of pre-existing [TS]

01:04:01   relationships with those 25 people in [TS]

01:04:04   the room because they are longtime [TS]

01:04:06   democratic party our operatives [TS]

01:04:08   themselves or people who have enough [TS]

01:04:11   money that they can bypass that process [TS]

01:04:14   entirely and appeal directly to the [TS]

01:04:16   people with like i'll buy the world a [TS]

01:04:18   coke vote for me and it's [TS]

01:04:24   fascinating to see like I wouldn't even [TS]

01:04:27   describe the process has broken its just [TS]

01:04:31   built its just built out of its like so [TS]

01:04:36   it's like all those buildings in Greece [TS]

01:04:38   where people were you know people in 400 [TS]

01:04:42   AD or like we need to build a house [TS]

01:04:45   let's go take some of those rocks from [TS]

01:04:47   the foundation of that old building and [TS]

01:04:50   they rebuilt the house out of blocks [TS]

01:04:53   from the Parthenon and then that house [TS]

01:04:56   burned down and somebody said let's take [TS]

01:04:57   those old burn rocks and build a fence [TS]

01:05:00   out of them and pretty soon you know [TS]

01:05:03   somebody added onto the fence and it [TS]

01:05:05   became a little bit of a castle and then [TS]

01:05:07   they put people on it and called it a [TS]

01:05:09   church and it's like it now we walk in [TS]

01:05:14   and it's a cellphone store on the [TS]

01:05:17   outskirts of Athens and you're like wow [TS]

01:05:19   this cell phone store is really [TS]

01:05:20   interesting and you know I don't up at [TS]

01:05:24   the bottom there are blocks from the [TS]

01:05:26   Parthenon and that that and being part [TS]

01:05:30   of that processes is thrilling and an [TS]

01:05:33   interesting but it's like it is really [TS]

01:05:37   impenetrable and has been and is an [TS]

01:05:42   exhausting and also is like it's causing [TS]

01:05:46   my stomach to churn all the time because [TS]

01:05:49   that reformer in me and I listened to [TS]

01:05:53   people all around me say like we need [TS]

01:05:55   reform up but they don't but they don't [TS]

01:05:58   even appear to stew to recognize like [TS]

01:06:01   like ruffle reform who would how would [TS]

01:06:06   you even begin like all of these all the [TS]

01:06:08   people in these meetings are like they [TS]

01:06:10   really are doing there that they are [TS]

01:06:17   participating with good intent with the [TS]

01:06:20   best intentions and it's so crazy how [TS]

01:06:26   how large groups of people all working [TS]

01:06:31   with the best intentions can produce [TS]

01:06:33   results that are so far from what we [TS]

01:06:37   would have met [TS]

01:06:37   engine were where our best effort [TS]

01:06:40   through I guess is that is what is what [TS]

01:06:44   becomes like so clear and why I mean [TS]

01:06:48   every single person i've met on the [TS]

01:06:49   campaign trail I haven't met a single [TS]

01:06:50   contemptible person they're all they're [TS]

01:06:53   all really interested and really trying [TS]

01:06:55   to make a difference and you know they [TS]

01:06:58   have varying ideas and ideologies but [TS]

01:07:01   they're all people of good will from [TS]

01:07:05   across the whole spectrum of people and [TS]

01:07:08   yet they are complicit everyday in these [TS]

01:07:12   small incremental compromises that are [TS]

01:07:16   not compromises of like well that's a [TS]

01:07:18   good idea and that's a good idea let's [TS]

01:07:20   compromise their compromises like well [TS]

01:07:21   what can we get done in a minute and you [TS]

01:07:24   know and what and you know and we've got [TS]

01:07:26   four more of these to do today so you [TS]

01:07:30   know that kind of stuff we're just like [TS]

01:07:31   well we're building this is we're [TS]

01:07:33   actually building a civilization out of [TS]

01:07:35   these parts out of these 1-minute [TS]

01:07:37   increments and that's hard to explain in [TS]

01:07:42   a minute [TS]

01:07:43   it's very hard to explain in a minute I [TS]

01:07:45   think I probably just took at least four [TS]

01:07:47   maybe that's what this is for this is [TS]

01:07:49   your this is your venue for that but you [TS]

01:07:52   know it's your it's frank is I think I [TS]

01:07:55   think of the way what it's like to be a [TS]

01:07:58   candidate right and it seems like a big [TS]

01:08:00   part of it is you know people are gonna [TS]

01:08:02   expect as I've always guests anyway all [TS]

01:08:04   along is that like the sort of [TS]

01:08:05   customer's always right approach of like [TS]

01:08:07   you gotta listen and you know so forth [TS]

01:08:09   and they you know add something I think [TS]

01:08:14   you and I share is that sometimes we [TS]

01:08:15   reject the argument somebody wants to [TS]

01:08:17   have because we can't agree on the terms [TS]

01:08:18   of the argument like I can't argue with [TS]

01:08:20   that about that because you're trying to [TS]

01:08:22   rig this and like in order for me to [TS]

01:08:24   have this argument with you we would [TS]

01:08:25   first have to have a pre argument right [TS]

01:08:27   tell you why I disagree on the terms of [TS]

01:08:29   what you're saying and I might be able [TS]

01:08:31   to propose a better argument for me to [TS]

01:08:33   have the first have to do you know what [TS]

01:08:35   I mean [TS]

01:08:35   mhm I think that's at that must be [TS]

01:08:37   incredibly frustrating because I i feel [TS]

01:08:39   i do that all the time also hey wait a [TS]

01:08:40   minute you would have argued about this [TS]

01:08:42   thing and it is making sense we we've [TS]

01:08:44   got to have a better argument than this [TS]

01:08:45   but let's let's have let's have it let's [TS]

01:08:47   have an honest [TS]

01:08:48   normal discussion about something but it [TS]

01:08:50   cannot be [TS]

01:08:51   thanks for trying to say is if people [TS]

01:08:52   come to you and they present you with [TS]

01:08:53   some kind of half banana balls idea [TS]

01:08:55   about like how the world is you know how [TS]

01:08:58   do you respond to that without sounding [TS]

01:08:59   like you're pushing back [TS]

01:09:00   yeah or or even if somebody is [TS]

01:09:04   good-hearted saying like we need reform [TS]

01:09:05   and you're like okay we'll give me an [TS]

01:09:07   idea what reform looks like right and [TS]

01:09:11   and and everybody has a different sense [TS]

01:09:13   of what the problem is i mean this we're [TS]

01:09:14   having this huge argument in the city [TS]

01:09:16   right now about like about rent control [TS]

01:09:19   and there are people of very good will [TS]

01:09:21   who really want to help people who [TS]

01:09:23   believe that rent control is like a [TS]

01:09:25   two-word solution to a pic because retro [TS]

01:09:30   because rent control but a two-word [TS]

01:09:32   solution to it to it to a huge and that [TS]

01:09:35   is far-reaching spiderweb of of a of a [TS]

01:09:39   of a condition even not even a problem a [TS]

01:09:42   condition that produces innumerable [TS]

01:09:45   problems and you know and they stand up [TS]

01:09:50   and say rent control and people [TS]

01:09:52   applauded and you go okay well um and [TS]

01:09:57   and what you find on the campaign trail [TS]

01:09:58   as you as you're going along and you [TS]

01:10:00   hear people applauded as he says here [TS]

01:10:03   she says rent control over and over and [TS]

01:10:06   I see other candidates start to you know [TS]

01:10:10   get to the end of their speech and say [TS]

01:10:11   oh and also rent control and hope in the [TS]

01:10:14   hopes that they can get an applause and [TS]

01:10:17   then you know and then that starts to [TS]

01:10:19   feel like wow there's a broad movement [TS]

01:10:22   for this and there isn't really no one's [TS]

01:10:26   taking the time to really think about it [TS]

01:10:28   I mean the people who are who are who [TS]

01:10:31   are promoting it have thought about it [TS]

01:10:33   they I in my opinion haven't thought [TS]

01:10:35   about it a lot of other things but they [TS]

01:10:39   thought about that and I mean it's like [TS]

01:10:43   it's like when I was 24 I remember [TS]

01:10:45   feeling like well if you know if uh if [TS]

01:10:49   no one had ID then we wouldn't even need [TS]

01:10:52   IDs who uh whatever right [TS]

01:10:55   it's like the those of the solution to [TS]

01:10:58   the problem is always so simple until [TS]

01:11:00   you a [TS]

01:11:01   look at the the effects of it and the [TS]

01:11:03   bend the incumbent in my race is he is [TS]

01:11:07   saying in every instance it's too [TS]

01:11:09   complicated to explain right now and so [TS]

01:11:13   he's doing a very bad job of [TS]

01:11:14   communicating to people that it's [TS]

01:11:17   complicated because he is he's being [TS]

01:11:19   caught he's doing that condescending [TS]

01:11:20   thing of people who do see how [TS]

01:11:23   complicated it is they don't but they [TS]

01:11:25   don't find a way to say like here here [TS]

01:11:29   here are the top here that he hears the [TS]

01:11:31   idea right you don't need and i think i [TS]

01:11:33   think because because the tendency in [TS]

01:11:36   this game is to say like is to speak in [TS]

01:11:38   bullet points so it's like 12345 here [TS]

01:11:41   are the 5 things and that's not an [TS]

01:11:44   effective way of communicating the idea [TS]

01:11:45   and under an effective way to do it is [TS]

01:11:48   actually with metaphor you know is it's [TS]

01:11:51   it's much easier to say like well how do [TS]

01:11:55   I explain what being in politics is like [TS]

01:11:57   it's like being it's like playing [TS]

01:12:00   fantasy football in a way you're dealing [TS]

01:12:04   with people who have never played or [TS]

01:12:05   probably never played professional [TS]

01:12:07   football but who are experts at the game [TS]

01:12:11   of numbers football right [TS]

01:12:14   Wow okay that is pretty good right and [TS]

01:12:17   that is that's a metaphor to explain [TS]

01:12:20   what I could have try could have [TS]

01:12:22   struggled and failed to explain about [TS]

01:12:24   politics using five actual facts about [TS]

01:12:28   it and that's true in civic life to [TS]

01:12:31   people are like trying to explain things [TS]

01:12:33   using statistics and actual facts about [TS]

01:12:36   things that are that are actually pretty [TS]

01:12:38   apprehended below by normal people if [TS]

01:12:40   you just say you know what this is like [TS]

01:12:42   this is like a basketball game where [TS]

01:12:46   everybody is on a unicycle and people go [TS]

01:12:49   oh I can picture that it is kinda like [TS]

01:12:53   that [TS]

01:12:54   yeah the basketball game where everybody [TS]

01:12:56   is on either cycle and most of them [TS]

01:12:57   don't know how to ride a unicycle so up [TS]

01:13:01   and and I think the best i think the [TS]

01:13:04   best people in public life have that [TS]

01:13:06   have that ability and it isn't it isn't [TS]

01:13:09   wrong [TS]

01:13:10   more untrustworthy to use metaphor to [TS]

01:13:13   explain things it is you know and and [TS]

01:13:17   you hear it all the time you campaign in [TS]

01:13:19   poetry government pros but I feel like [TS]

01:13:22   you need to [TS]

01:13:24   that's good I like that right but I feel [TS]

01:13:26   like you also can govern in poetry a [TS]

01:13:28   little bit and and and part of that is [TS]

01:13:32   the outreach you have to sit in the [TS]

01:13:34   meeting and listen to all the data and [TS]

01:13:36   synthesize and make decisions but then [TS]

01:13:38   when you take that back out to the [TS]

01:13:40   people and say here's what we decided [TS]

01:13:43   that's another opportunity to your not [TS]

01:13:49   campaigning then but you are speaking in [TS]

01:13:53   poetry to people and I think there would [TS]

01:13:56   be a lot more people would feel that was [TS]

01:13:57   more transparency in government and they [TS]

01:13:59   would feel like it was less [TS]

01:14:00   conspiratorial if they weren't if they [TS]

01:14:03   weren't buried under statistics when [TS]

01:14:08   really statistics are bad and explaining [TS]

01:14:10   things online statistics can also just [TS]

01:14:13   become a different kind of analogy in [TS]

01:14:15   some ways I mean you can you come home [TS]

01:14:16   banging the facts to look like anything [TS]

01:14:18   you want depending on we know what data [TS]

01:14:20   show you set your show or or or how you [TS]

01:14:23   show it [TS]

01:14:23   it's just it feels real it feels like it [TS]

01:14:25   feels like real arithmetic when you're [TS]

01:14:27   using numbers no apparent reason I don't [TS]

01:14:32   know why I keep laughing I keep victim [TS]

01:14:33   so much would you talk about keep down a [TS]

01:14:35   few ever were a simpsons fan but the [TS]

01:14:37   episode kinda based on the music man [TS]

01:14:39   where the guy comes to sound town and [TS]

01:14:42   with the cell springfield monorail and [TS]

01:14:45   his entry as he walks into the room and [TS]

01:14:46   he goes you know I town with money is [TS]

01:14:49   like a mule with a spinning wheel [TS]

01:14:51   no one knows how he got it and dang if [TS]

01:14:53   he knows how to use it [TS]

01:14:54   fuck up yeah right hey I yes I guess [TS]

01:15:00   shut up and take my money and I think [TS]

01:15:03   you know I think about junior high all [TS]

01:15:04   the time [TS]

01:15:05   me too well I know I know we both do and [TS]

01:15:08   I know that there's a there's a big part [TS]

01:15:10   of uh of our listenership degrees with [TS]

01:15:13   us in principle that junior high should [TS]

01:15:15   be reformed but I I think about i think [TS]

01:15:19   about walking into junior high [TS]

01:15:21   and you know at that age I was kind of [TS]

01:15:27   shaped like a dim sum and sorry it's a [TS]

01:15:33   minute feeling sick you don't like a [TS]

01:15:35   pork but I was shaped a little bit like [TS]

01:15:37   a shoe my I had a fire kind of a frilly [TS]

01:15:41   edge and then you know that I was big [TS]

01:15:44   money big party center as porky like a [TS]

01:15:47   little porky only on the outside part a [TS]

01:15:50   small this garbage can shaped port on [TS]

01:15:54   your pocket [TS]

01:15:55   uh and but i but i was also I was [TS]

01:15:58   entering puberty rites all of a sudden I [TS]

01:15:59   was producing all this dander and like [TS]

01:16:02   us [TS]

01:16:03   eczema and emotionally I was still child [TS]

01:16:09   food but I was having feelings that I [TS]

01:16:14   had never had before [TS]

01:16:15   so here i am a little i'm a little by [TS]

01:16:18   little dumpling little shumai in my [TS]

01:16:21   school and and and like my body is just [TS]

01:16:24   extruding things that I don't want in it [TS]

01:16:28   basically just essential oils just [TS]

01:16:32   pouring out of me and I'm having all [TS]

01:16:34   these intense feelings about everything [TS]

01:16:39   better not feeling a lot of feelings [TS]

01:16:41   yeah a lot of feelings and the other [TS]

01:16:43   kids in the school are all going through [TS]

01:16:44   this stuff at different rates some of [TS]

01:16:46   the guys in the school were already men [TS]

01:16:48   who could grow mustaches and had muscles [TS]

01:16:51   and some of them were like me just like [TS]

01:16:55   pupa and then a you know like the [TS]

01:17:00   teenage girls also on a wide spectrum of [TS]

01:17:02   where they were on that on their [TS]

01:17:04   transition to adulthood and how cruel [TS]

01:17:06   they were prepared to be to each other [TS]

01:17:07   and to me and what they what happened in [TS]

01:17:13   the school portion was a on the first [TS]

01:17:17   day of my honors english class the [TS]

01:17:20   teacher said in grade school you are [TS]

01:17:25   allowed to write in pencil but now [TS]

01:17:29   you're in junior high and we are [TS]

01:17:31   preparing you for high school which is a [TS]

01:17:34   bit [TS]

01:17:34   big deal and so in preparation for high [TS]

01:17:37   school [TS]

01:17:39   you now have to write all your papers in [TS]

01:17:41   pen and if you write a paper and pencil [TS]

01:17:45   that you will get an F Wow and this was [TS]

01:17:51   the beginning that this was in fact i [TS]

01:17:54   think the first my first year of junior [TS]

01:17:56   high was also the first year coincided [TS]

01:17:58   with the first year of erasable pens [TS]

01:18:01   oh yeah I remember the pic erasable pen [TS]

01:18:03   eraser mate right wasn't whatever i do [TS]

01:18:06   remember was real-like dumb kind of [TS]

01:18:09   spooky like Christie kinda gummy ink and [TS]

01:18:12   yeah you could erase it was erasable [TS]

01:18:14   pens but they were not inexpensive and I [TS]

01:18:17   had a really hard time keeping up even [TS]

01:18:21   one writing implement on my person right [TS]

01:18:24   i just i would get done riding a thing [TS]

01:18:26   and i would put the pen down and I would [TS]

01:18:28   forget to pick it up or I don't know [TS]

01:18:30   where I don't know how I lost so many [TS]

01:18:32   pens and so many pencils so i was never [TS]

01:18:34   able to even I didn't feel like I even [TS]

01:18:37   had control over my possession of any [TS]

01:18:41   kind of implement but i could not get my [TS]

01:18:44   head around writing my report and pen [TS]

01:18:47   I don't even like yeah i'm i'm trying to [TS]

01:18:50   think back well why do you think you [TS]

01:18:55   know partly it felt just like a punitive [TS]

01:18:59   rule i look in our language arbitrary [TS]

01:19:03   just an arbitrary rule [TS]

01:19:05   yeah yeah partly because when I was you [TS]

01:19:07   know like when i would get an idea I [TS]

01:19:09   wanted to write something i would grab [TS]

01:19:11   the thing that was nearest me and I had [TS]

01:19:12   a lot of pencils and very few pens [TS]

01:19:15   I don't know honestly why but I kept [TS]

01:19:19   writing reports sometimes 23 page [TS]

01:19:22   reports because that you're in seventh [TS]

01:19:23   grade now you have to write you know [TS]

01:19:24   you're going to write a report on world [TS]

01:19:26   war two it's gonna be three pages long [TS]

01:19:27   and i would write them in pencil on hand [TS]

01:19:30   and get an F and I got F's until the [TS]

01:19:36   school agreed that I didn't belong in [TS]

01:19:39   honors english and nobody was reading my [TS]

01:19:42   papers they were just the teacher was [TS]

01:19:46   just giving me an F because i had [TS]

01:19:47   failed to follow the role and my [TS]

01:19:51   personal experience of walking around [TS]

01:19:53   the school is that I'm also being [TS]

01:19:54   taunted and tormented and you know and [TS]

01:19:59   being forced to take showers with other [TS]

01:20:02   boys and you know and I have strong [TS]

01:20:06   feelings for everybody and they are you [TS]

01:20:09   know and they have also equally strong [TS]

01:20:12   feelings for me mostly that i am a that [TS]

01:20:14   I am a dancer recovered homunculus and [TS]

01:20:19   yet the adults in that situation wanted [TS]

01:20:26   me to write in pen and I either couldn't [TS]

01:20:29   or refuse to and got F's until they sent [TS]

01:20:34   me down [TS]

01:20:36   they sent me down to regular English the [TS]

01:20:39   class that you're describing where it's [TS]

01:20:41   like well some of these kids in this [TS]

01:20:43   school the ones in Honors English are [TS]

01:20:45   going to go on to college and then [TS]

01:20:48   there's regular English where you know [TS]

01:20:50   some of you may go to a college and some [TS]

01:20:55   of its not remedial English where you [TS]

01:20:56   know you're never going to get a college [TS]

01:20:58   but you know you're down here in the mix [TS]

01:21:01   now with the with the normals and good [TS]

01:21:04   luck and i was so you know I was like I [TS]

01:21:08   was so astonished and and surprised no [TS]

01:21:13   one has ever suggested that i would be [TS]

01:21:14   that that I would be a regular right and [TS]

01:21:21   I was backed into a corner and worked [TS]

01:21:24   and worked and worked that quarter and [TS]

01:21:27   you know just set the curve in that [TS]

01:21:29   class until the teacher of the normal [TS]

01:21:31   english class went to down to the [TS]

01:21:33   principal and said please take him out [TS]

01:21:35   of my class it's um he just like he's he [TS]

01:21:42   requires too much attention and so they [TS]

01:21:46   took me out of that class there was [TS]

01:21:48   nowhere else for me to go and so they [TS]

01:21:51   put me back in honors and told that [TS]

01:21:53   teacher to just deal with it and she [TS]

01:21:55   dealt with it by giving me addy [TS]

01:21:57   instead of enough that was ok so there [TS]

01:22:01   you go it's all worked out by fig so I [TS]

01:22:03   you know so I gamed the system now if [TS]

01:22:05   you can imagine you know and I i don't i [TS]

01:22:08   don't know how many people listen to [TS]

01:22:09   this podcast were also flops right [TS]

01:22:12   growing up but if you can imagine the [TS]

01:22:14   pressure on a thirteen-year-old or [TS]

01:22:18   twelve-year-old like what what a bunch [TS]

01:22:21   of F's on a report rhapsodies her feel [TS]

01:22:25   like when you're also trying to not [TS]

01:22:31   explode every day when you're basically [TS]

01:22:35   like a water balloon filled with oil and [TS]

01:22:38   covered with hair and skin flakes and [TS]

01:22:41   you're already just barely keeping it [TS]

01:22:43   together just barely making it [TS]

01:22:45   yeah and you know and what you want is [TS]

01:22:47   just somebody to tell you you're okay [TS]

01:22:48   and you're gonna be okay and you don't [TS]

01:22:50   need to learn you don't need to write a [TS]

01:22:52   three-page port report about world war [TS]

01:22:53   two you don't need to learn you you know [TS]

01:22:56   like you should be you should basically [TS]

01:22:58   just be the first of all allowed to [TS]

01:23:01   sleep 211 in the morning and second of [TS]

01:23:03   all you know just like put into us into [TS]

01:23:09   a soothing room with soft pillows and [TS]

01:23:11   and given like music and film [TS]

01:23:15   appreciation classes right that would be [TS]

01:23:17   those would be amazing junior high [TS]

01:23:19   schools if you just went and took art [TS]

01:23:22   appreciation classes for two years where [TS]

01:23:24   you got to sit in a dark room and watch [TS]

01:23:25   what it was there was a role that was [TS]

01:23:29   definitely not a teacher not exactly a [TS]

01:23:32   guidance counselor but more like just [TS]

01:23:34   like in a neutral assessor with a little [TS]

01:23:36   bit empathy who would just kind of see [TS]

01:23:38   like what you need now it almost like a [TS]

01:23:40   like a junior high concierge like [TS]

01:23:42   somebody who would just go you know what [TS]

01:23:43   you need a couple weeks sitting on [TS]

01:23:44   beanbag chair and just watching some [TS]

01:23:45   movies yeah right now it's time now it's [TS]

01:23:48   time to cut trail you're ready [TS]

01:23:49   how would you empower somebody to do [TS]

01:23:51   that right and and knowing like the [TS]

01:23:53   systems are like how would you how would [TS]

01:23:56   you pick somebody that had that acumen [TS]

01:23:58   train them properly convince the the [TS]

01:24:01   wider world and the school district that [TS]

01:24:03   that person should have that kind of [TS]

01:24:05   gatekeeping power [TS]

01:24:07   right right and then have the have the [TS]

01:24:10   facilities waiting to receive kids at [TS]

01:24:14   different levels of development [TS]

01:24:16   oh it's it's a win the thing is the [TS]

01:24:19   other part of it is as much as we all [TS]

01:24:20   try to be what as much as we try to be [TS]

01:24:23   like disinterested third parties in [TS]

01:24:25   something there's something very [TS]

01:24:27   difficult about like not getting heavily [TS]

01:24:29   involved in something where like you [TS]

01:24:31   know you get a little bit of your dick [TS]

01:24:32   in the door about something and you get [TS]

01:24:33   you get you want me to start feeling [TS]

01:24:35   really strongly about some issue your [TS]

01:24:36   feelings get hurt you don't like the way [TS]

01:24:37   these kids trying to make you look bad [TS]

01:24:38   you got to someone who's like the [TS]

01:24:40   ultimate super adult yeah right yeah [TS]

01:24:42   planning and it wouldn't be there [TS]

01:24:44   wouldn't be evaluated based on test [TS]

01:24:45   scores it would have to be somebody who [TS]

01:24:47   mostly got you know what maybe get a [TS]

01:24:48   bonus in 20 years if you're still and it [TS]

01:24:51   would be like a railroad roundhouse [TS]

01:24:53   right where that just the train comes in [TS]

01:24:55   the Roundhouse turns and like very [TS]

01:24:58   humanely putting people not not in you [TS]

01:25:04   know not in the way that we do it now [TS]

01:25:05   which is like well you're on the a year [TS]

01:25:08   on the shop track right here on the [TS]

01:25:10   college track huh [TS]

01:25:11   but rather like you need to listen to [TS]

01:25:14   music right now and you need exercise [TS]

01:25:17   and no and you know what a godsend that [TS]

01:25:21   would be you need to dance you know like [TS]

01:25:24   their everyday there's a moment with my [TS]

01:25:26   daughter I'm like you know what you need [TS]

01:25:27   to do it right now is dance because you [TS]

01:25:30   just need 20 minutes of game you need to [TS]

01:25:32   do that and she's just like wow dance [TS]

01:25:35   and it just goes and it's like thank god [TS]

01:25:37   there's dancing yeah right and what and [TS]

01:25:41   what kind of and the things you couldn't [TS]

01:25:43   build that he couldn't build that idea [TS]

01:25:46   the way we typically build ideas which [TS]

01:25:49   is on the burned-out blocks of the [TS]

01:25:52   Parthenon you would have to build value [TS]

01:25:54   idea from the vision backwards [TS]

01:25:56   alright see it and reverse-engineer it [TS]

01:25:59   and it because i think that is the [TS]

01:26:01   experience the kids have it expensive [TS]

01:26:03   private schools because they have there [TS]

01:26:06   are there are people there who are being [TS]

01:26:09   paid to take that kind of of [TS]

01:26:17   of like structuring gentle hand with [TS]

01:26:22   their charges but like how would we how [TS]

01:26:25   we introduce that kind of thinking to [TS]

01:26:26   the city at large and you know up [TS]

01:26:29   against all these people like what kind [TS]

01:26:30   of job training is that got you get your [TS]

01:26:32   jobs heart now imagine being that person [TS]

01:26:34   who like who wants to introduce the [TS]

01:26:37   junior high concierge maybe they can be [TS]

01:26:39   sponsored hmm maybe I guess I guess you [TS]

01:26:43   know what we'll call it the LinkedIn [TS]

01:26:45   concierge service at a horrible baby [TS]

01:26:50   ok that was a bad idea if you read in a [TS]

01:26:54   student guidance program but you know [TS]

01:26:57   it's just it's just so much about [TS]

01:26:58   education that is so shhh it's like [TS]

01:27:03   always like a road system right the road [TS]

01:27:05   system works a certain way we realize we [TS]

01:27:07   need a wider roads we made wider roads [TS]

01:27:08   you made more of those roads we made [TS]

01:27:10   overpasses and underpasses we have [TS]

01:27:11   really fundamentally rethought the road [TS]

01:27:13   as a thing in a really long time we [TS]

01:27:15   talked about this alive and that's kind [TS]

01:27:16   of how i feel about schools I mean thank [TS]

01:27:18   God it's there and thank God for the the [TS]

01:27:20   teachers I feel like I always have to [TS]

01:27:21   say that that are and and parents and [TS]

01:27:24   the kids and it's a great thing but it's [TS]

01:27:26   really it's time for a big refresh along [TS]

01:27:28   the lines of the cutting trail program [TS]

01:27:30   I mean you know instead of going like [TS]

01:27:32   what should you have some introduction [TS]

01:27:34   with the police or should you have [TS]

01:27:36   suspension or should we ignore it [TS]

01:27:39   no you go cut trail that's that's that's [TS]

01:27:41   a that's a thought technology because [TS]

01:27:43   you're really thinking [TS]

01:27:44   look we need to get outside of the [TS]

01:27:45   system that we're in right now you need [TS]

01:27:48   is our something to do that probably and [TS]

01:27:50   that and that's what's crazy that that [TS]

01:27:52   that too [TS]

01:27:54   we can't get people to agree on really [TS]

01:27:58   simple incremental projects but I wonder [TS]

01:28:02   you know I wonder if it's possible to [TS]

01:28:06   have a kind of collective czar or [TS]

01:28:10   collective Pharaoh where collected fair [TS]

01:28:17   a collective era where people are you [TS]

01:28:21   know where people are able to be [TS]

01:28:23   inspired by a vision of the future in 20 [TS]

01:28:28   years [TS]

01:28:29   and put aside the the normal bickering [TS]

01:28:32   of like well where are the crosswalks [TS]

01:28:34   gonna be well we're how is that going to [TS]

01:28:36   affect my sewer service and say like can [TS]

01:28:40   we all agree on a you know like and I [TS]

01:28:43   know I know it's really pie-in-the-sky [TS]

01:28:44   and then then we try this all the time [TS]

01:28:47   but we are or more and more capable all [TS]

01:28:50   the time to of both like disseminating a [TS]

01:28:54   vision more broadly than we've been able [TS]

01:28:57   to in the past and collecting people's [TS]

01:28:59   opinions are in real time so we don't [TS]

01:29:02   anymore have to say like here's the big [TS]

01:29:05   project that we envisioned here is the [TS]

01:29:07   bill that would enable it to pass and [TS]

01:29:09   now let's put it to the voters and that [TS]

01:29:11   will be in and and every once in a while [TS]

01:29:13   you know we can robo call them in [TS]

01:29:15   advance of the land and the people that [TS]

01:29:17   have home phones that reply two poles [TS]

01:29:21   will give us some sense of what how [TS]

01:29:24   people feel about this right like we [TS]

01:29:26   have the technology now or increasingly [TS]

01:29:28   so we could reach a large population of [TS]

01:29:31   people in real time and say here's you [TS]

01:29:34   know like here's the project here's the [TS]

01:29:36   modification of the project here's you [TS]

01:29:39   know here's the the comment period is [TS]

01:29:41   already closed but here is the you know [TS]

01:29:43   like what do you think about this option [TS]

01:29:45   versus this option and and move people [TS]

01:29:49   to choose up to choose to make a big [TS]

01:29:54   leap and then say alright we have chosen [TS]

01:29:57   this and now reverse engineering how [TS]

01:30:00   we're gonna get this done is going to be [TS]

01:30:02   a separate process that isn't and it's [TS]

01:30:04   going to involve some big action but [TS]

01:30:08   it's under the umbrella of this thing [TS]

01:30:10   we've already approved right and so you [TS]

01:30:13   know we're not gonna we're not going to [TS]

01:30:14   build this out of a stacked bebes we're [TS]

01:30:18   gonna we're gonna build this back from [TS]

01:30:20   the thing that we've all agreed is what [TS]

01:30:22   we want [TS]

01:30:23   I think it's did I boy this has gotta at [TS]

01:30:26   some point be sort of a part of any [TS]

01:30:29   political strategy against is and how [TS]

01:30:30   you phrase things or how you frame [TS]

01:30:31   things and damaged in your idea of [TS]

01:30:33   saying like you know in some ways I [TS]

01:30:35   guess I feel like if you're overly [TS]

01:30:37   specific about what pointing out what [TS]

01:30:39   you're doing and the context almost [TS]

01:30:40   everybody's going to disagree with it [TS]

01:30:42   especially if you say something like [TS]

01:30:43   okay you got his but here's here's the [TS]

01:30:46   answer pattern is the bad example [TS]

01:30:47   ok you guys we love our educational [TS]

01:30:51   system and we know how important that is [TS]

01:30:53   but it's time for us to revolutionize it [TS]

01:30:57   like if you put it that way people are [TS]

01:30:58   gonna freak in some ways because or or [TS]

01:31:01   even if you say things you get super [TS]

01:31:02   specific when you get the lobby's [TS]

01:31:04   involved it needs to be something that's [TS]

01:31:05   so along the lines of the supertrain [TS]

01:31:07   type effort would have to be something [TS]

01:31:08   that's like so big that nobody would see [TS]

01:31:10   it coming [TS]

01:31:10   yeah and what school called some cells [TS]

01:31:13   called something else yeah right yeah [TS]

01:31:15   and and and uh you know and i think it [TS]

01:31:19   yeah i mean there are so many examples [TS]

01:31:22   of how there are so many examples of big [TS]

01:31:25   projects that we have successfully build [TS]

01:31:27   that we can use as as guidelines but the [TS]

01:31:34   world has changed so much like [TS]

01:31:36   everything such an artifact of its time [TS]

01:31:37   in context [TS]

01:31:38   yeah it's something everybody we know [TS]

01:31:40   people like me say oh we won't have the [TS]

01:31:41   Tennessee Valley Authority would be [TS]

01:31:43   great if we took all these people who [TS]

01:31:44   can't get jobs and got them and I'm not [TS]

01:31:46   getting I'm modernizing I'm not even [TS]

01:31:48   saying let's go ahead and build a dam [TS]

01:31:49   I'm saying let's have them work even in [TS]

01:31:51   some kind of an IT capacity or do [TS]

01:31:53   something or like volunteering school [TS]

01:31:54   because all these kinds of ways that you [TS]

01:31:56   can do that but like that you know some [TS]

01:31:58   of those biggest projects came out [TS]

01:32:00   something that was really kind of a [TS]

01:32:01   fluke that never happened at all [TS]

01:32:03   yeah you think about what i mean in in [TS]

01:32:07   living memory in in my parents lifetimes [TS]

01:32:11   the government went across the nation [TS]

01:32:15   and basically built enormous dams in [TS]

01:32:18   every conceivable river valley where [TS]

01:32:22   they could get away with it and if you [TS]

01:32:24   think about what it would take now for [TS]

01:32:26   somebody to come along and say this this [TS]

01:32:29   unspoiled valley that's full of little [TS]

01:32:31   villages and stuff we're going to build [TS]

01:32:33   a dam at the end of it to capture water [TS]

01:32:35   and and create power net would never you [TS]

01:32:38   would be more than impossible right and [TS]

01:32:42   so so there was this window of time when [TS]

01:32:46   it was technologically possible to build [TS]

01:32:48   giant hydroelectric dams and still [TS]

01:32:52   socially possible [TS]

01:32:54   and we built a bunch of them and for us [TS]

01:32:56   here in Seattle like our electricity is [TS]

01:32:59   cheap because of these giant dams that [TS]

01:33:01   they built just in my in my father's [TS]

01:33:03   lifetime that's so amazing and uh you [TS]

01:33:07   know and we're and here we are right i [TS]

01:33:10   mean I'm we're making this podcast using [TS]

01:33:12   that power in part and so and the [TS]

01:33:17   interstate highways were built in our [TS]

01:33:19   lifetimes all across the country based [TS]

01:33:23   on the premise and now we're not saying [TS]

01:33:24   we didn't break a few eggs to get there [TS]

01:33:27   sure maybe we maybe not every [TS]

01:33:29   mom-and-pop motel made the cut [TS]

01:33:31   we kind of tore down the Centers of [TS]

01:33:34   every major American city but look at [TS]

01:33:37   the roads and you know to think about [TS]

01:33:40   that like after the war there was a [TS]

01:33:44   sense of that that that we had progress [TS]

01:33:46   the bit that the big businesses the oil [TS]

01:33:49   companies and the and the automobile [TS]

01:33:50   companies were like roads and and they [TS]

01:33:53   did this fantastic job of convincing us [TS]

01:33:55   that building roads was the pump was in [TS]

01:33:57   the public's interest and they attached [TS]

01:34:00   all this weird cold war spooker e to it [TS]

01:34:03   and then just eminent domained huge [TS]

01:34:08   neighborhoods in the centres of all of [TS]

01:34:10   the towns and built giant smoky loud [TS]

01:34:13   caverns chasms and now here we are in [TS]

01:34:20   every day I Drive on it and and [TS]

01:34:22   everybody's you know and driving on them [TS]

01:34:24   couldn't do it now [TS]

01:34:26   couldn't do it now not in a million [TS]

01:34:29   billion years right but the next thing [TS]

01:34:32   we need to build has to be on that same [TS]

01:34:35   scale and it has to be better and cooler [TS]

01:34:39   and conscious of the mistakes that were [TS]

01:34:42   made and conscious of the fact that when [TS]

01:34:44   they built the dams and they built the [TS]

01:34:46   freeways they also thought they were [TS]

01:34:48   doing the best thing we can there's an [TS]

01:34:51   urgency I mean one of the things you [TS]

01:34:52   know I know we share a love of world war [TS]

01:34:55   two especially documentaries that the [TS]

01:34:57   part of those things that never stops [TS]

01:34:58   blowing me away with several things that [TS]

01:35:00   never stopped playing away but one is [TS]

01:35:01   the how quickly every country germany [TS]

01:35:05   england united states how quickly they [TS]

01:35:07   we were able to ramp up not just the [TS]

01:35:10   military personnel but the equipment [TS]

01:35:13   like how you could suddenly start [TS]

01:35:15   building thousands and thousands of [TS]

01:35:17   planes that quickly in the nineteen [TS]

01:35:19   forties doesn't seem as if they'll be [TS]

01:35:21   impossible today my dad trained my dad [TS]

01:35:25   did pilot training in a biplane with [TS]

01:35:29   your kidding with fabric wings no I mean [TS]

01:35:31   he then the US Navy a taught him to fly [TS]

01:35:35   in a by plan and by the end of the war [TS]

01:35:38   which was 19 [TS]

01:35:42   you know of in America 1941 245 not even [TS]

01:35:46   five [TS]

01:35:48   I mean not even four years really less [TS]

01:35:51   than four years he went from training in [TS]

01:35:54   a biplane to there being jet aircraft [TS]

01:35:56   and atomic bonds and it's like that was [TS]

01:36:01   amazing you guys [TS]

01:36:03   hey wow I guess we really put our minds [TS]

01:36:06   to it we can do some stuff she really [TS]

01:36:08   nifty you know like if we hadn't had [TS]

01:36:09   that war how long before we know how [TS]

01:36:12   long what history of looked like in [TS]

01:36:14   terms of Technology and is it is it [TS]

01:36:17   gonna take another war or another Cold [TS]

01:36:19   War to make us want to be innovative in [TS]

01:36:21   an interesting way again i don't think [TS]

01:36:23   so i hope i hope that you know I hope we [TS]

01:36:27   can do it without a war i think that we [TS]

01:36:28   can do it with a with like the with the [TS]

01:36:33   like with the pent-up energy we have and [TS]

01:36:36   unleash it in ways that are positive and [TS]

01:36:39   cool i think it's speaking of positive [TS]

01:36:43   haha turn this in a positive direction [TS]

01:36:45   where the hell did that Bell come from [TS]

01:36:46   I've never heard that before [TS]

01:36:48   that's the political bell and it's time [TS]

01:36:50   for us to turn to house John's campaign [TS]

01:36:52   going [TS]

01:36:53   may I mechanical pivot here of course so [TS]

01:36:56   feel free at this point to discuss [TS]

01:36:58   anything you would like about the [TS]

01:36:59   campaign a question that i have probably [TS]

01:37:01   a continuing question I would have is of [TS]

01:37:04   course you're always welcome on your own [TS]

01:37:06   program to talk about the travails I'd [TS]

01:37:07   like to know what's going great and I'm [TS]

01:37:09   always interested in what turned what is [TS]

01:37:12   turning out better than you expected or [TS]

01:37:15   hoped is there like what were you going [TS]

01:37:17   like wow these people are awesome [TS]

01:37:19   like is there anything happening where [TS]

01:37:20   you're particularly helpful [TS]

01:37:21   not just for your campaign but just for [TS]

01:37:23   about the city and how things operate [TS]

01:37:24   other things going on that particular [TS]

01:37:26   excited about right now they're going [TS]

01:37:27   better than you might have anticipated [TS]

01:37:29   well uh so in the good news department i [TS]

01:37:32   have been endorsed by the Sierra Club [TS]

01:37:34   which is an enormous a an enormous vote [TS]

01:37:39   of confidence [TS]

01:37:40   the CR club had previously endorsed the [TS]

01:37:44   incumbent my opponent Tim Burgess [TS]

01:37:48   multiple times and they came to me and [TS]

01:37:50   said you know we it is within it [TS]

01:37:53   it's sort of in our charter that once we [TS]

01:37:55   have endorsed somebody we don't stop [TS]

01:37:57   endorsing him i said that only sensible [TS]

01:38:00   that seems that would seem weird right [TS]

01:38:02   we're not you know we're not trying to [TS]

01:38:03   be partisan we're trying to be we're [TS]

01:38:05   trying to you know have people moving in [TS]

01:38:08   the right direction but they in fact [TS]

01:38:09   switch to their endorsement to me so [TS]

01:38:12   that is a major deal and you know what I [TS]

01:38:18   have been endorsed by several of these [TS]

01:38:20   Democratic Party organizations and I'm [TS]

01:38:22   going this week to meet with for more [TS]

01:38:25   gift for more speeches for four more [TS]

01:38:28   democratic party groups and then stand [TS]

01:38:30   there in my flowered hat and hope that [TS]

01:38:33   they hope that I'm the mule that they [TS]

01:38:35   picked Iraq haha [TS]

01:38:37   hello I'm a pretty beautiful and people [TS]

01:38:42   are you know people are gathering behind [TS]

01:38:45   the campaign last night I went to a very [TS]

01:38:48   unusual show which was Chris Novoselic [TS]

01:38:51   interviewing duff mckagan about his new [TS]

01:38:53   book and a very handsome photo it was a [TS]

01:38:58   wasn't unusual [TS]

01:38:59   it's a good-looking guy he's very there [TS]

01:39:00   is very handsome and fit is fit and also [TS]

01:39:03   Christmas fit [TS]

01:39:04   they're both very fit and guy is really [TS]

01:39:06   tall he's very tall is he always like [TS]

01:39:08   6-7 he's a really big he's big and they [TS]

01:39:12   invited me up at the end of the show and [TS]

01:39:14   both of them said you know this is a [TS]

01:39:16   great opportunity to vote for one of us [TS]

01:39:19   and this and we sat on the stage and [TS]

01:39:21   talked about the seattle city council [TS]

01:39:23   and and they both said really kind words [TS]

01:39:26   and encourage people to vote and then [TS]

01:39:28   Chris stood out and they both stood out [TS]

01:39:30   in and like signed autographs and took [TS]

01:39:33   photos with people and about you know [TS]

01:39:35   it seemed like 700 people lined up to [TS]

01:39:37   get their pictures taken and Chris was [TS]

01:39:40   wearing a vote Roderick sticker in every [TS]

01:39:42   photo [TS]

01:39:43   Wow which is cool and you know that was [TS]

01:39:45   I don't have had a really emotional [TS]

01:39:47   moment you know I'm we're backstage [TS]

01:39:50   three of us and I'm sitting there [TS]

01:39:52   talking about some the when they first [TS]

01:39:57   met back in the grunge times and I'm [TS]

01:40:01   sitting there thinking like 25 years ago [TS]

01:40:03   could I have imagined that I would be [TS]

01:40:06   that the three of us would be hanging [TS]

01:40:08   out hard [TS]

01:40:10   she's all three be a lot harder with all [TS]

01:40:12   three line that we would be hanging I [TS]

01:40:14   don't exaggerated but you know I just [TS]

01:40:17   making chitchat about stuff right and [TS]

01:40:19   you know as we get up to go take this to [TS]

01:40:22   the the stage manager comes back and [TS]

01:40:25   he's like you know you're on Mike [TS]

01:40:26   McCready just introduced you guys and [TS]

01:40:29   the the crap you know a mike came out [TS]

01:40:31   and like give a warm introduction and [TS]

01:40:34   then was like and here they are but we [TS]

01:40:37   were all still upstairs upstairs talking [TS]

01:40:39   about old times and so stage managers [TS]

01:40:42   like you know you guys are on and stuff [TS]

01:40:45   grabs kristin is just like hey man you [TS]

01:40:48   know I saw that that Kurt Cobain [TS]

01:40:50   documentary and I just wanted to say [TS]

01:40:52   like and then there was another five [TS]

01:40:56   minutes of three of us kind of standing [TS]

01:40:58   in a little huddle well talking about [TS]

01:41:01   and that you don't know enough for a [TS]

01:41:03   long time and I've known Christopher a [TS]

01:41:05   while and you know I admire them and [TS]

01:41:08   love them both but like really human [TS]

01:41:10   five minutes talking about really really [TS]

01:41:13   human stuff he was saying he was my [TS]

01:41:16   favorite thing that documentary well and [TS]

01:41:18   and whiskey was great and really he was [TS]

01:41:20   really you know moved and in that moment [TS]

01:41:23   like moved to to describe his feelings [TS]

01:41:27   about it and and you know and thinking [TS]

01:41:29   like if there's anybody in the world [TS]

01:41:32   that can identify like stuff and like [TS]

01:41:36   all the people that we that those guys [TS]

01:41:38   knew that didn't make it and that and [TS]

01:41:41   people that I knew like our generation a [TS]

01:41:43   lot of us didn't make us right [TS]

01:41:45   and it was really really heavy and also [TS]

01:41:47   really really beautiful and [TS]

01:41:48   life-affirming because these guys are [TS]

01:41:52   heroes and and 25 years ago I would have [TS]

01:41:56   said like just legendary figures to me [TS]

01:41:59   and yet like superhuman guys with like [TS]

01:42:05   just really a lot of humanity and love [TS]

01:42:09   and and and so in that moment you know [TS]

01:42:12   it's just life affirming for me to [TS]

01:42:14   remember that people are not statues of [TS]

01:42:19   themselves there is it is possible to go [TS]

01:42:23   through life and remain fully [TS]

01:42:27   functioning person who's trying to feel [TS]

01:42:29   and and you know it [TS]

01:42:33   entering into the political world it's [TS]

01:42:35   there [TS]

01:42:36   there's all this pressure to like uh-huh [TS]

01:42:38   to eliminate that from your vocabulary [TS]

01:42:40   to stick to the numbers so that was [TS]

01:42:44   really validating and their support was [TS]

01:42:47   validating and so anyway you know that [TS]

01:42:50   was all really exciting and then but [TS]

01:42:51   that's that's just to say probably an [TS]

01:42:53   unstated that that's not an opportunity [TS]

01:42:55   that is gonna come up that many times in [TS]

01:42:58   a given 10-year period [TS]

01:42:59   well write down that particular room in [TS]

01:43:01   a particular way he seems like you're [TS]

01:43:02   probably getting it's like going to be a [TS]

01:43:04   little bit like like reunion sometimes [TS]

01:43:06   where your or just opportunities of [TS]

01:43:07   different people being together the same [TS]

01:43:09   place that must be must be a great [TS]

01:43:10   feeling [TS]

01:43:11   uh yeah right it is and you know what to [TS]

01:43:14   think that in 1991 guns and roses and [TS]

01:43:19   Nirvana were bitter enemies you know Axl [TS]

01:43:23   Rose and Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love [TS]

01:43:25   got into a fistfight at the backstage at [TS]

01:43:27   the inn copy music video awards because [TS]

01:43:29   Axl Rose told kurt tell his bitch to [TS]

01:43:33   shut up you know [TS]

01:43:36   welcome to the early next week welcome [TS]

01:43:38   to the jungle right and so it kind of [TS]

01:43:41   death you know and Nirvana was perceived [TS]

01:43:43   to be the antidote to guns and roses [TS]

01:43:47   rock-and-roller they were like the Sex [TS]

01:43:49   Pistols two guns and roses Queen maybe [TS]

01:43:52   ya gunz roses Zeppelin Yeah right right [TS]

01:43:55   and and so you know those [TS]

01:43:58   time heals all wounds factor and also [TS]

01:44:00   the like how dumb where we then factor [TS]

01:44:04   all that stuff really really poignant [TS]

01:44:06   and you know that was a conversation [TS]

01:44:09   that was only going to happen once and [TS]

01:44:11   there was only one witness to it and it [TS]

01:44:12   was me and I just felt fortunate and and [TS]

01:44:16   and you know just black personally [TS]

01:44:19   touched and and that is happening a [TS]

01:44:23   surprising amount because i went to that [TS]

01:44:26   you know that we have that shale oil [TS]

01:44:27   drilling right right here that that was [TS]

01:44:31   what people are paddling about that was [TS]

01:44:32   over there paddling about and you know [TS]

01:44:34   she'll is kind of the only oil company [TS]

01:44:37   that is still trying to drill in the [TS]

01:44:40   Arctic Ocean and they've tried a few [TS]

01:44:43   times and they've they've like lost a [TS]

01:44:45   lot of money trying it's very hard to do [TS]

01:44:48   and this is their last chance kind of [TS]

01:44:51   you know they don't they're not going to [TS]

01:44:52   keep doing this indefinitely and they've [TS]

01:44:55   told this ocean-going oil derrick here [TS]

01:44:57   which was built in 1985 and has drilled [TS]

01:45:00   all around the world and they're just [TS]

01:45:02   waiting for the ice to clear up there to [TS]

01:45:04   go up in July and try one more time and [TS]

01:45:08   the City of Seattle has decided that [TS]

01:45:11   this is where they're going to make [TS]

01:45:12   their symbolic stand against it and [TS]

01:45:15   there's a and all the usual suspects are [TS]

01:45:17   saying like well union jobs or you know [TS]

01:45:20   don't be naive fossil fuels aren't you [TS]

01:45:23   know we're not ready to divest from [TS]

01:45:24   fossil fuels and all the normal kind of [TS]

01:45:26   business oriented it's none of our [TS]

01:45:28   business it's Alaska's problem all this [TS]

01:45:30   stuff and and ultimately the big [TS]

01:45:33   criticism like it's just a symbolic [TS]

01:45:35   gesture you guys don't have any you know [TS]

01:45:38   there's nothing you can really do and [TS]

01:45:41   and yet here was this huge gathering of [TS]

01:45:45   people to say no don't drilling in the [TS]

01:45:48   Arctic is idiotic [TS]

01:45:50   if you make one fuck up there like the [TS]

01:45:56   oil is you know it's it's frozen [TS]

01:45:59   conditions right if there's an oil spill [TS]

01:46:00   up there that oil is not going to [TS]

01:46:02   organically degrade it's going to be [TS]

01:46:04   it's going to just be in that Arctic [TS]

01:46:07   geyer going around the world and but [TS]

01:46:11   fouling [TS]

01:46:12   greenland and iceland and norway it's [TS]

01:46:18   just gonna spin around there for [TS]

01:46:19   centuries [TS]

01:46:20   don't be idiots like it's over the [TS]

01:46:23   fossil-fuel era is on the I mean it's [TS]

01:46:27   not just waning like let's just start to [TS]

01:46:29   say it's over [TS]

01:46:31   yeah yeah yeah yeah we said we don't [TS]

01:46:33   realize it's everything it's over it's [TS]

01:46:34   done [TS]

01:46:35   yeah and-and-and it's gonna take 15 or [TS]

01:46:38   20 years for us to to roll out all the [TS]

01:46:41   the different solutions to the problems [TS]

01:46:44   but like it's done [TS]

01:46:45   justjust give it a rest and so yes it [TS]

01:46:48   was a symbolic bunch of hippies in wet [TS]

01:46:52   lease in kayaks out there but then there [TS]

01:46:56   was a big a big meeting where you know [TS]

01:46:59   stage and speeches and stuff and there [TS]

01:47:02   were all these alaska natives who had [TS]

01:47:05   come down from the North Slope these [TS]

01:47:08   guys from Barrow and the you know the [TS]

01:47:12   whole community of people who had been [TS]

01:47:14   active against and Warren Arctic [TS]

01:47:16   drilling for decades and it was really [TS]

01:47:21   emotional for me to see that many Alaska [TS]

01:47:24   Natives all in one place and speaking [TS]

01:47:26   about their about their land and their [TS]

01:47:31   feelings because that way you know it [TS]

01:47:33   was like it was like a I haven't been [TS]

01:47:36   back to Alaska and a couple of years and [TS]

01:47:38   if and before that it had been a long [TS]

01:47:39   time since I've been to an event like [TS]

01:47:41   that and just you know the cadence of [TS]

01:47:44   their of the way they speak and the and [TS]

01:47:47   the songs and there you know that the [TS]

01:47:50   places they were referencing it was all [TS]

01:47:52   really really that's nice felt like [TS]

01:47:55   family to me and I was I was so moved by [TS]

01:47:59   the fact that that was a long journey [TS]

01:48:02   and and a lot of them a lot of the the [TS]

01:48:05   speakers were like we've been protesting [TS]

01:48:08   Arctic drilling since 1970 and this is [TS]

01:48:10   the largest crowd we've ever seen wow [TS]

01:48:14   like talking about a difference right [TS]

01:48:17   are you serious yeah we've been too racy [TS]

01:48:19   for for over 40 years and mostly to [TS]

01:48:24   unrest [TS]

01:48:25   captive audiences and now here look at [TS]

01:48:28   this look here we hear it something [TS]

01:48:31   really is moving and you know obama just [TS]

01:48:34   approved that arctic drilling you know [TS]

01:48:38   as in in one of those inexplicable moves [TS]

01:48:40   we're just like what do you want it [TS]

01:48:42   what are you doing guy I thought we were [TS]

01:48:44   at the Hopi where else be weren't you [TS]

01:48:46   the guy about we get a lot of this [TS]

01:48:47   moment or two the guy with global [TS]

01:48:49   warming guy weren't you that guy and [TS]

01:48:52   that's where it does feel conspiratorial [TS]

01:48:54   like oh shit like did he get read into [TS]

01:48:57   some area 51 shit and now he's making [TS]

01:48:59   these decisions and we're just not right [TS]

01:49:01   i don't think that's true i think he's [TS]

01:49:03   just you know I don't know what but but [TS]

01:49:06   the fact is like i was at this event [TS]

01:49:09   that was a little bit hippie-dippie but [TS]

01:49:13   when you really got into it or what I [TS]

01:49:15   really got into it I was like fuck you [TS]

01:49:17   guys this is it like that this era which [TS]

01:49:23   we have been told our whole lives was [TS]

01:49:26   was you know is that since 1980 we've [TS]

01:49:30   been saying one day we'll transition [TS]

01:49:32   away from fossil fuels and we've been [TS]

01:49:34   told over and over again like not [TS]

01:49:36   possible not possible not yet now yes [TS]

01:49:38   here now yet not yet and it just feels [TS]

01:49:41   like oh there's more people on the now [TS]

01:49:44   side now than there are on the not yet [TS]

01:49:46   side and that's a big that's a big [TS]

01:49:49   moment I have a world historical moment [TS]

01:49:52   and that feels amazing [TS]

01:49:54   yeah just and just the fact that it's in [TS]

01:49:57   no longer requires us to have belief and [TS]

01:50:02   faith that things can be different [TS]

01:50:04   because the reality is already changing [TS]

01:50:05   i would say that except a guy tweeted me [TS]

01:50:10   from Seattle the other day [TS]

01:50:11   quoting my one of the lines in my [TS]

01:50:14   political bio that say you know it's [TS]

01:50:18   great to live in Seattle because we [TS]

01:50:19   don't have to argue whether or not the [TS]

01:50:20   polar ice caps are melting and the guy [TS]

01:50:23   Twitter mediums like sounds like [TS]

01:50:25   somebody needs to google polarized cap [TS]

01:50:27   extense haha [TS]

01:50:30   haha that now wait a minute is that just [TS]

01:50:33   is that the at the high end of the [TS]

01:50:34   iceberg you think it's gonna end up in [TS]

01:50:36   aliens and chemtrails well so so so I [TS]

01:50:38   was like tell me more [TS]

01:50:40   you know what i'm gonna do i'm going to [TS]

01:50:41   google those exact words and I googled [TS]

01:50:43   the exact words and the first thing that [TS]

01:50:44   came up was this scientific study with [TS]

01:50:46   all the data about the shrinking ice [TS]

01:50:48   caps and so I screencapped it and [TS]

01:50:52   tweeted it to the guy and I was like you [TS]

01:50:54   mean this first result of those words [TS]

01:50:57   that you said and he tweeted me back and [TS]

01:50:59   he was like well if you believe a bunch [TS]

01:51:02   of data from a bunch of scientists yes [TS]

01:51:05   but here's a Deadspin article that [TS]

01:51:08   unmasks the law and the deadspin article [TS]

01:51:12   was like you know actually on the north [TS]

01:51:14   side of the Antarctic ice shelf it has [TS]

01:51:18   put on a bunch of ice in the last two [TS]

01:51:21   years you know the the the west side of [TS]

01:51:24   the west north side of the Antarctic ice [TS]

01:51:27   shelf has grown considerably in the last [TS]

01:51:29   years apparently according to this [TS]

01:51:30   article but then as you read down the [TS]

01:51:32   article it says but every other aspect [TS]

01:51:35   of the Antarctic shelf is catastrophic [TS]

01:51:37   shrinking to the point of like the point [TS]

01:51:39   of no return and of course the Arctic is [TS]

01:51:41   almost completely free of ice now John [TS]

01:51:45   Roderick fact cherry picker and so I [TS]

01:51:48   wrote him again knowing that I should [TS]

01:51:51   not and I said leave it [TS]

01:51:54   I said serve did you even read to the [TS]

01:51:56   end of the article that you're citing [TS]

01:51:58   and he wrote me back again he was like [TS]

01:52:02   you know if you want to believe the [TS]

01:52:05   climate the the the big dollar climate [TS]

01:52:09   Lobby I was just like oh my god even in [TS]

01:52:12   seattle there's there I'm sure tons of [TS]

01:52:16   people sitting in the den of their split [TS]

01:52:20   level home shaking their shaking shaking [TS]

01:52:24   their like it [TS]

01:52:25   disembodied rubber hand at that at the [TS]

01:52:31   dam scientists John you for your problem [TS]

01:52:36   is probably your mobbed up with big [TS]

01:52:38   science you know all those thing is all [TS]

01:52:41   those years you and big truth [TS]

01:52:43   if you if you go if you go look at the [TS]

01:52:45   people who donated to my campaign you'll [TS]

01:52:47   find a lot of scientists there a lot of [TS]

01:52:49   batt theologists and people studying the [TS]

01:52:54   migratory patterns of the of the monarch [TS]

01:52:58   butterfly so special interest groups you [TS]

01:53:01   know what I'm saying and they are [TS]

01:53:02   donating sometimes 25-30 even fifty [TS]

01:53:06   dollars to my campaign and I'm beholden [TS]

01:53:08   to their interest not to mention the [TS]

01:53:11   computer maths people know all those [TS]

01:53:13   guys such a trade school dropouts the so [TS]

01:53:19   disappointed disappointing i thought you [TS]

01:53:26   were gonna be different man [TS]