Roderick on the Line

Ep. 153: "The Time Buffalo"


00:00:00   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:00:01   sponsored by slack the messaging app for [TS]

00:00:04   teams slack consolidates all your work [TS]

00:00:06   communications into one place makes them [TS]

00:00:08   instantly searchable and available on [TS]

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00:00:12   long as you want with as many users as [TS]

00:00:14   you want start using slack today by [TS]

00:00:16   visiting slack calm / supertrain [TS]

00:00:19   [Music] [TS]

00:00:24   beep-boop-beep-boop-beep more was going [TS]

00:00:31   but I'll wallet [TS]

00:00:33   it's going good at it's going great [TS]

00:00:37   yeah how so good so good I was just uh I [TS]

00:00:42   was just listening to some hold music [TS]

00:00:44   and the whole music was maybe the best [TS]

00:00:49   most appropriate hold music I'd ever [TS]

00:00:52   heard in all the years [TS]

00:00:54   what's that it was one lonely violin [TS]

00:00:58   playing a kind of gypsy funeral music [TS]

00:01:04   that's a very interesting choice you [TS]

00:01:08   know and so often now you got to get on [TS]

00:01:11   hold music and it's just like school or [TS]

00:01:15   some terrible thing I never understood [TS]

00:01:17   that and this was like just one violin [TS]

00:01:24   just like 12 ya somethin mournful super [TS]

00:01:28   mournful kva city is standing on the [TS]

00:01:30   roof of his general just playing this [TS]

00:01:37   scenario [TS]

00:01:38   single by Lynn and I was just like this [TS]

00:01:40   is the greatest and it was kind of hero [TS]

00:01:43   was all scratchy old system was like why [TS]

00:01:46   aren't all why isn't all hold music like [TS]

00:01:49   this i just i seriously want this it's [TS]

00:01:52   it is important with my mood [TS]

00:01:55   yeah I mean I there's so much about [TS]

00:01:58   holes under must be reasonably is the [TS]

00:01:59   way that they do but like there's seems [TS]

00:02:01   like there's these worst practices of [TS]

00:02:03   things were like you know the the [TS]

00:02:06   ultimately as the person who's on the [TS]

00:02:08   phone [TS]

00:02:09   ideally you want to speak as quickly as [TS]

00:02:11   possible but if you can't speak as [TS]

00:02:13   quickly as possible [TS]

00:02:14   it's nice to be able to like do other [TS]

00:02:16   stuff or you know so you know I the [TS]

00:02:20   thing is what drives me crazy especially [TS]

00:02:21   if you're on like without the comcast [TS]

00:02:23   company is it breaks in here click and [TS]

00:02:26   you'll go take a speaker wherever we go [TS]

00:02:27   and get here click and then the music [TS]

00:02:29   stops and they go into an ad [TS]

00:02:31   yeah where you know so I mean I almost [TS]

00:02:34   feel like I wish they would just have [TS]

00:02:35   some kind of a tone or 70 [TS]

00:02:38   the wrong approach but then also like [TS]

00:02:39   you say systems are so shitty [TS]

00:02:41   everything's all like jumping if it was [TS]

00:02:43   good music it would sound like the worst [TS]

00:02:45   am radio like inside of a fish tank [TS]

00:02:47   right yeah and the the phone tree system [TS]

00:02:50   that i just tried to navigate said you [TS]

00:02:53   know for one press of for English press [TS]

00:02:55   one side best one said for for the thing [TS]

00:02:58   you're not interested in press one for [TS]

00:02:59   the thing you're not interested in also [TS]

00:03:01   press two for the thing you are [TS]

00:03:02   interested in press three [TS]

00:03:04   so I press three they said for the the [TS]

00:03:07   permutation of the thing that you are [TS]

00:03:08   interested in that you're not interested [TS]

00:03:10   in press one for the permutation of the [TS]

00:03:12   thing that you are interested in that [TS]

00:03:13   you're not interested in press two for [TS]

00:03:15   the permutation you are interested in [TS]

00:03:16   press three and press three [TS]

00:03:18   but it's like stuff you should have [TS]

00:03:19   already been going to be there because [TS]

00:03:21   you've already dismissed that [TS]

00:03:22   yeah right and here we go and was so and [TS]

00:03:24   I do that three or four times and then I [TS]

00:03:25   get an A and finally the recorded [TS]

00:03:28   message says for the thing for the exact [TS]

00:03:30   reason that you are calling press one [TS]

00:03:32   and I'm like here we go and i pressed [TS]

00:03:35   one and it gave me a minute long [TS]

00:03:38   recording of a voice telling me [TS]

00:03:41   everything that I already knew and [TS]

00:03:44   couldn't have been to this place in [TS]

00:03:46   their phone tree without knowing right [TS]

00:03:48   and then at the end of the phone miss at [TS]

00:03:51   the end of that message there was no [TS]

00:03:52   further option to progress to the next [TS]

00:03:56   level so it was basically made it to an [TS]

00:04:00   announcement [TS]

00:04:01   it was the ultimate may I made it here [TS]

00:04:03   to an announcement that is reading from [TS]

00:04:06   a powerpoint demonstration of God and a [TS]

00:04:09   powerpoint demonstration of how to how [TS]

00:04:12   to have be the most basic and and then [TS]

00:04:16   it was just like to repeat this press [TS]

00:04:18   one to go back to the menu and so at [TS]

00:04:21   that point all you can do is go operator [TS]

00:04:24   operator operator 000 right and I [TS]

00:04:27   normally do that with without even [TS]

00:04:29   listening to the first thing but today I [TS]

00:04:31   felt generous i was like i'm gonna [TS]

00:04:33   follow this poetry although i'm going to [TS]

00:04:35   go up into the highest branches of this [TS]

00:04:37   tree where the view will be spectacular [TS]

00:04:41   we're part of it i think about like when [TS]

00:04:43   you're trying to write something long or [TS]

00:04:45   when you're dealing with a big project [TS]

00:04:47   I mean with me like for example trying [TS]

00:04:48   to write that book a few years ago I was [TS]

00:04:50   constantly torn between these two [TS]

00:04:51   impulses there was the one impulse to [TS]

00:04:53   just make make make new stuff which is I [TS]

00:04:56   think the good impulse when you're [TS]

00:04:57   drafting then there's the other impulse [TS]

00:05:00   which is like yeah but you should also [TS]

00:05:01   keep outlining and reviewing what you've [TS]

00:05:04   done already not revising but like is [TS]

00:05:06   this compulsion of like feeling like I [TS]

00:05:08   have to make sure that this is going to [TS]

00:05:10   make sense with what I've already done [TS]

00:05:11   and I wonder if influential like that [TS]

00:05:13   you take that model and spread across [TS]

00:05:16   different business units and you have [TS]

00:05:18   different people contributing different [TS]

00:05:19   parts to the tree and there's not [TS]

00:05:21   anybody who's project managing how [TS]

00:05:24   sensible it is to hear something a given [TS]

00:05:26   point and maybe it's not totally up to [TS]

00:05:27   date you know what I mean yes I can see [TS]

00:05:29   that really in a large even in a [TS]

00:05:30   specially medium-sized corporation i [TS]

00:05:32   would say we wouldn't have dedicated [TS]

00:05:33   resources I can I could see that [TS]

00:05:35   happening [TS]

00:05:35   well I know it's like I think it's [TS]

00:05:37   analogous to the way that we misuse the [TS]

00:05:40   police in the sense that what if we have [TS]

00:05:42   a problem in our town and you don't know [TS]

00:05:44   how to solve it you send the police [TS]

00:05:45   right even though the police are not [TS]

00:05:48   problem solvers really they're not [TS]

00:05:50   that's not the problem solving unit of [TS]

00:05:51   the city have thought about that that's [TS]

00:05:53   interesting that's interesting in like [TS]

00:05:55   the police are really useful in certain [TS]

00:05:59   ways but they are not the like we did [TS]

00:06:02   they're not the psychology team to go [TS]

00:06:04   out to figure out what somebody's why [TS]

00:06:06   somebody's yelling right and in in [TS]

00:06:10   business [TS]

00:06:11   it seems like the engineers are the [TS]

00:06:14   people that they send to solve a lot of [TS]

00:06:17   problems right send the engineers and [TS]

00:06:20   the engineers are you know they're [TS]

00:06:21   they're like the police they're very [TS]

00:06:23   good at at doing the thing that they do [TS]

00:06:26   but they are you know they're not the [TS]

00:06:27   ones that you send in to do just to [TS]

00:06:31   check to see if a normal person can [TS]

00:06:33   figure out your project if a normal [TS]

00:06:36   person who isn't who has no inside [TS]

00:06:38   knowledge is going to show up at the [TS]

00:06:39   front door [TS]

00:06:40   look for the doorbell yeah and you know [TS]

00:06:43   in the engineers like well there isn't a [TS]

00:06:46   doorbell clearly what you need to do at [TS]

00:06:50   that point is to you know retina scan or [TS]

00:06:52   whatever it's like the persons looking [TS]

00:06:53   for the doorbell can't find it right and [TS]

00:06:56   that you know and that disconnect where [TS]

00:06:59   businesses don't you know and like every [TS]

00:07:01   business [TS]

00:07:02   should hire a squad of normals right [TS]

00:07:05   there should be like team normal wear [TS]

00:07:07   those people are constantly kept totally [TS]

00:07:10   in the dark about your about the product [TS]

00:07:12   your business makes everything and how [TS]

00:07:13   it's made and how it's made and then but [TS]

00:07:16   they are the like they are the final the [TS]

00:07:20   final test and it's not like testers [TS]

00:07:22   they actually belong to their they are [TS]

00:07:24   they're part of your business and you [TS]

00:07:26   just unleash your stuff on them write [TS]

00:07:28   something a little bit [TS]

00:07:30   unbuttons the wrong word but it's [TS]

00:07:31   somebody who's there specifically to [TS]

00:07:34   find what's broken about what you're [TS]

00:07:36   doing [TS]

00:07:36   I'm not just a tester but somebody in [TS]

00:07:38   that case and I'm actually that someone [TS]

00:07:40   like testing now that I hear those words [TS]

00:07:41   but it's somebody's job it is to [TS]

00:07:43   advocate for the the busy and confused [TS]

00:07:47   person [TS]

00:07:48   yeah right now if you're I guess what [TS]

00:07:50   you have to do is you have to imagine [TS]

00:07:51   and this is the thing that that happens [TS]

00:07:54   so infrequently in the way that we [TS]

00:07:56   design things it's like imagine the [TS]

00:07:58   person not just your imagine the user [TS]

00:08:02   right but like imagine a user who has no [TS]

00:08:06   who doesn't even know they want to use [TS]

00:08:10   your product who doesn't who you know [TS]

00:08:12   imagine the user who's showing up there [TS]

00:08:14   with like a crying baby whose doesn't [TS]

00:08:17   exactly what i was thinking you know [TS]

00:08:18   it's exact was just thinking of having [TS]

00:08:20   to hold a crying baby and use the phone [TS]

00:08:22   with one hand right when you totally [TS]

00:08:23   self-absorbed position to take but those [TS]

00:08:25   are the times I felt most acutely this [TS]

00:08:27   was never designed to work in this [TS]

00:08:29   situation and this is when I really [TS]

00:08:30   needed to work right but here's the [TS]

00:08:32   thing here's one you ready for this [TS]

00:08:33   never have any device this happens with [TS]

00:08:35   bluetooth speakers have lots of never [TS]

00:08:37   have any device in the world that makes [TS]

00:08:39   a noise when you turn it off like a car [TS]

00:08:42   should not make a noise when it's locked [TS]

00:08:44   that was a baby and it's just [TS]

00:08:45   unnecessary have a bluetooth speaker my [TS]

00:08:47   shower that makes a blue when you shut [TS]

00:08:49   it off [TS]

00:08:50   I was never aware of how many things [TS]

00:08:52   make a noise when you turn them off [TS]

00:08:53   until I had a kid I was trying to get to [TS]

00:08:55   sleep you can get a use case you think [TS]

00:08:57   they're saying goodbye is that is that [TS]

00:08:59   what the the concept is like well the [TS]

00:09:01   one they turn it off we should we should [TS]

00:09:02   set to give them one last salutation [TS]

00:09:05   right i think it's probably part of a [TS]

00:09:07   certain kind of customer service [TS]

00:09:08   experience where like you know it used [TS]

00:09:10   to be that felt like a sign of status [TS]

00:09:11   that your car made a bloop you know only [TS]

00:09:14   douchebags and rich kids had those [TS]

00:09:15   at one time and so once that became now [TS]

00:09:18   you were kinda like when you're you know [TS]

00:09:19   for doesn't matter whatever like you [TS]

00:09:21   feel like you're a big shot up the ramp [TS]

00:09:24   yeah i'll answer Maryland especially [TS]

00:09:26   with speakers though I think it's a [TS]

00:09:27   confluence of two annoying things which [TS]

00:09:29   is on the one hand like this my [TS]

00:09:31   bluetooth speaker in the shower [TS]

00:09:32   it's just speaker on a suction cup is [TS]

00:09:34   water resistant water proof nominally [TS]

00:09:37   but it's very very cheap was like nine [TS]

00:09:39   dollars and I and like what you couldn't [TS]

00:09:43   do with good interface you need to cover [TS]

00:09:46   you need to do some house so for example [TS]

00:09:47   there's a light that blinks the entire [TS]

00:09:49   time that's on which makes me a little [TS]

00:09:50   bit crazy and then it makes a blue one [TS]

00:09:52   blue please turn on what we turn off [TS]

00:09:53   that's how lets you know right yeah I i [TS]

00:09:57   was sort of side question yes speaker [TS]

00:10:00   with a suction cup on it [TS]

00:10:03   have you ever sitting in the bath [TS]

00:10:08   suction-cupped the speaker to your self [TS]

00:10:10   now you know when it's a great question [TS]

00:10:12   if i were a little younger I think that [TS]

00:10:14   would probably one of the first or [TS]

00:10:15   second things like I did not like [TS]

00:10:17   selection couple things to myself you [TS]

00:10:19   know I'm gonna like turn it up and see [TS]

00:10:20   like our fields all right it would be [TS]

00:10:23   like yeah you really going to be a [TS]

00:10:24   haptic right you really feel the music [TS]

00:10:26   you feelin not happen but you feel the [TS]

00:10:27   music in your head now like your [TS]

00:10:29   your-your-your there in the shower [TS]

00:10:30   let's see being kind of high-end trying [TS]

00:10:32   that Alex suction cup the speaker to [TS]

00:10:34   yourself and then you're like while [TS]

00:10:37   you're waiting on hold pretty you know I [TS]

00:10:40   can I I imagined that I would ultimately [TS]

00:10:42   have to try that [TS]

00:10:43   yeah you know the other thing is I I [TS]

00:10:45   like what you said though about the [TS]

00:10:46   police being like the engineers being [TS]

00:10:49   like the police [TS]

00:10:50   mmm i think there's there's a lot in [TS]

00:10:51   common there but i think there's another [TS]

00:10:53   two different poor impulses with the [TS]

00:10:57   police maybe for me I kind of feel like [TS]

00:10:59   they become my surrogate dad were like [TS]

00:11:01   if I felt like I've done everything I [TS]

00:11:03   can to ask control threaten and it still [TS]

00:11:05   doesn't work out or I'm annoyed you know [TS]

00:11:08   I tried to do this anymore but you end [TS]

00:11:10   up calling the police today coming to [TS]

00:11:11   take care of this thing like you you [TS]

00:11:13   should you're gonna you go to the cold [TS]

00:11:15   police you're making the noise [TS]

00:11:17   yeah in with engineers i have a feeling [TS]

00:11:19   the impulse is more practical of like [TS]

00:11:21   well these nerves are going to have to [TS]

00:11:23   be the ones who you know do this anyway [TS]

00:11:25   let's just give it straight to them [TS]

00:11:27   uh-oh [TS]

00:11:28   you know and I'm nothing against you [TS]

00:11:30   know engineering it's like it's it's [TS]

00:11:32   such a misunderstood and difficult job [TS]

00:11:35   but you know it's it's likely say you [TS]

00:11:38   know don't don't put the guy who claims [TS]

00:11:41   that cleans up after the elephants in [TS]

00:11:42   charge of who's allowed to be in the [TS]

00:11:43   parade because he's going to have a very [TS]

00:11:45   specific point of view but I I feel like [TS]

00:11:48   I feel like this there are there are [TS]

00:11:50   products and there are things that we [TS]

00:11:53   interact with that are that are purely [TS]

00:11:56   for pleasure right that we you know like [TS]

00:11:59   a guitar for instance you very seldom [TS]

00:12:02   sit down pick up a guitar and go oh god [TS]

00:12:06   I hate this guitar i just have to deal [TS]

00:12:08   with it right now right and there are [TS]

00:12:11   lots of things in our world [TS]

00:12:13   oh yeah that are in that category just [TS]

00:12:15   like I I just can't wait to get alone [TS]

00:12:17   with this thing but most of the products [TS]

00:12:20   that we are being sold now and most of [TS]

00:12:22   the the way design works now the [TS]

00:12:26   presumption of everybody a presumption [TS]

00:12:28   of the people making the thing are like [TS]

00:12:30   okay are you ready to sit down with your [TS]

00:12:34   epson eps XP 400s and really get into [TS]

00:12:39   this experience of working with this you [TS]

00:12:41   know we're going to give you like a [TS]

00:12:43   screen that has a sunset on it it's [TS]

00:12:45   going to say hi to you right you're [TS]

00:12:47   going it's going to give you my [TS]

00:12:48   microwave microwave when it goes off it [TS]

00:12:50   scrolls and leds enjoy your meal haha [TS]

00:12:53   right and so insulting i don't want to [TS]

00:12:56   been applying its greeting me and start [TS]

00:12:59   your day I Antonio Berlin come back i'm [TS]

00:13:01   talking to you you know and this this [TS]

00:13:05   concept of like I mean ninety percent of [TS]

00:13:07   the things that I interact within the [TS]

00:13:09   day I but my met my attitude about it is [TS]

00:13:13   I don't really want to be here [TS]

00:13:14   interacting with you I just have to get [TS]

00:13:16   through this process please can you just [TS]

00:13:18   make it as simple as absolutely and so [TS]

00:13:20   you walk up to the ATM and they're like [TS]

00:13:22   hi would you like to hang out with me [TS]

00:13:24   the ATM machine let's let's chat about [TS]

00:13:27   you know it's just like up yours [TS]

00:13:29   up yours bank up yours machine up yours [TS]

00:13:32   programmer up yours everybody just give [TS]

00:13:35   me the like basic and and that and that [TS]

00:13:37   the idea that the the nicest thing that [TS]

00:13:40   these people could do [TS]

00:13:42   who are designing these things is [TS]

00:13:43   designed it so that you so that is [TS]

00:13:45   invisible and then it does not assert [TS]

00:13:49   itself right because you are standing [TS]

00:13:50   there not only with the crying baby but [TS]

00:13:52   somewhere else to be [TS]

00:13:53   you don't nobody goes to the ATM machine [TS]

00:13:55   like I can't you know what later on [TS]

00:13:57   today after i'm done with my work and I [TS]

00:14:00   really need the money but I just enjoy [TS]

00:14:01   the experience [TS]

00:14:02   yeah i'm gonna change into something [TS]

00:14:03   comfortable and just go down and fucking [TS]

00:14:05   chat with me taking fucking language and [TS]

00:14:07   just hang out man i'm gonna i'm gonna [TS]

00:14:09   call up some phone trees pick a language [TS]

00:14:10   maybe i'll pick it maybe i'll pick in [TS]

00:14:12   the language that isn't mine and just [TS]

00:14:13   listen to what it says in a different [TS]

00:14:15   language and and I see that so I mean [TS]

00:14:18   like every copier I've bought in the [TS]

00:14:20   last however long you know which is a [TS]

00:14:23   lot more copies than I ever should have [TS]

00:14:24   had to Bonnie photocopiers photocopier [TS]

00:14:27   zat Arras multifunction printers that's [TS]

00:14:29   right there are also yes scanners and [TS]

00:14:31   also you know can do a thousand other [TS]

00:14:33   things and every one of them is just is [TS]

00:14:36   just like at a loss leader pyramid [TS]

00:14:39   scheme to sell overpriced cartridges [TS]

00:14:42   right right that our thing that would [TS]

00:14:44   work just like somebody was like what if [TS]

00:14:46   we made ink out of bb's and each one of [TS]

00:14:49   those babies cost a dollar [TS]

00:14:51   like that's a for that is a visit that [TS]

00:14:54   sounds like apples cloud right that [TS]

00:14:57   sounds like a thing that we can just [TS]

00:14:58   charge people it's just it's the [TS]

00:14:59   ultimate it's the ultimate Remora the [TS]

00:15:03   ultimate steal that Celia and so I you [TS]

00:15:06   know how many printers are bought and i [TS]

00:15:07   think half the printers i bought our [TS]

00:15:09   because the their predecessor i threw [TS]

00:15:11   out a window and every one of these are [TS]

00:15:14   blind and then we've got it can can look [TS]

00:15:16   at work with cloud-based printing which [TS]

00:15:18   is really cool [TS]

00:15:20   need some help but just even going in to [TS]

00:15:23   enter the Wi-Fi password have a pretty [TS]

00:15:24   good Wi-Fi password about you doing in [TS]

00:15:27   and entering that using an up and down [TS]

00:15:29   arrow to choose a letter capital no [TS]

00:15:32   lower case number character [TS]

00:15:35   I mean seriously and then of course does [TS]

00:15:37   the whole likes high security thing [TS]

00:15:38   where it doesn't you see what you've [TS]

00:15:39   already typed in uh huh so it's one of [TS]

00:15:42   those is one of those times where like [TS]

00:15:43   again it's the reality is butting up [TS]

00:15:45   against the best practices everybody [TS]

00:15:47   should be using a better password but it [TS]

00:15:48   doesn't take that many times of having [TS]

00:15:50   to do that before you go you know I'm [TS]

00:15:52   changing my netflix password to pencil [TS]

00:15:54   every day well wait a minute what if [TS]

00:15:56   somebody's looking over your shoulder [TS]

00:15:57   when you put your password in your [TS]

00:15:58   printer they can be off happening here [TS]

00:16:01   is a choice of identity theft maybe [TS]

00:16:03   print shit all day while you're at work [TS]

00:16:05   you come home your whole house is full [TS]

00:16:07   of like I did aliens and this scan this [TS]

00:16:11   friends this episode of Roderick on the [TS]

00:16:15   line is sponsored by slack the messaging [TS]

00:16:17   app for teens i'm told that it sounds [TS]

00:16:19   like I'm saying teens but this is the [TS]

00:16:21   messaging app for teams although I have [TS]

00:16:23   to imagine that teens are probably [TS]

00:16:25   welcome as well in any case slack [TS]

00:16:26   consolidates all your work [TS]

00:16:28   communications into one place makes them [TS]

00:16:30   instantly searchable and available on [TS]

00:16:31   any device guys this is a very [TS]

00:16:33   compelling new thought technology slack [TS]

00:16:36   easily integrates with all the tools and [TS]

00:16:38   services you already use all the great [TS]

00:16:40   tools stuff like Google Drive and [TS]

00:16:42   hangouts dropbox github stripe you name [TS]

00:16:45   it [TS]

00:16:46   so that means you have just this one [TS]

00:16:47   beautiful place to go to keep up with [TS]

00:16:49   everything that's happening on your team [TS]

00:16:52   what's great is that slack also makes [TS]

00:16:54   all your stuff searchable so every [TS]

00:16:56   discussion every decision and document [TS]

00:16:58   is archived index and available to a [TS]

00:17:00   single search box [TS]

00:17:02   no more digging through piles of old [TS]

00:17:03   Braille Playboy's trying to find the [TS]

00:17:04   Henderson report it's all just right [TS]

00:17:06   there [TS]

00:17:06   slack is used by over 500,000 people [TS]

00:17:10   more than 60,000 teams every day that [TS]

00:17:13   includes companies like the new york [TS]

00:17:14   times perhaps you've heard of them [TS]

00:17:16   ebay adobe and even the icecube neutrino [TS]

00:17:18   Observatory who use slack all the way [TS]

00:17:21   down at the South Pole [TS]

00:17:22   that's the pole where the penguins live [TS]

00:17:24   here's the really cool part black is [TS]

00:17:26   free to use for as long as you want and [TS]

00:17:27   with as many users as you want [TS]

00:17:29   it's super easy to get started using [TS]

00:17:31   select today by visiting slack dot-com / [TS]

00:17:34   supertrain here's the crazy part when [TS]

00:17:36   you sign up for your free account from [TS]

00:17:37   that page you'll also get one hundred [TS]

00:17:39   dollars in credit to use if you ever [TS]

00:17:41   decide to upgrade to the mini fantastic [TS]

00:17:44   features of slacks paid plans point is [TS]

00:17:46   you need to get on this by signing up at [TS]

00:17:48   slac dot-com / supertrain many thanks to [TS]

00:17:52   slack the messaging app for teams for [TS]

00:17:56   taking some of the pain out of staying [TS]

00:17:58   connected and for their wonderful [TS]

00:17:59   support of rather cuddle [TS]

00:18:01   and screw you world uh it's it's so true [TS]

00:18:04   you know it's funny I think about like [TS]

00:18:05   the kind of jobs i can pass and refer to [TS]

00:18:07   certain jobs I've had as someone in [TS]

00:18:10   accurately but I felt like an [TS]

00:18:11   information janitor where nobody notices [TS]

00:18:13   what I do until the toilets backup [TS]

00:18:15   you know the kind of job I've always [TS]

00:18:16   been one of the one hand never wanted to [TS]

00:18:18   have the kind of job where people only [TS]

00:18:20   notice what you do when it doesn't go [TS]

00:18:22   flawlessly that would be a terrible [TS]

00:18:23   thing the other thing is I've never [TS]

00:18:25   wanted to have one of those kinds of [TS]

00:18:26   jobs where the success of the [TS]

00:18:28   interaction is mostly based on how [TS]

00:18:31   little they had to interact with you so [TS]

00:18:34   you think about checking into a hotel [TS]

00:18:36   late at night you think about you know [TS]

00:18:39   obviously rental car because you know [TS]

00:18:40   the rental cars like the worst because [TS]

00:18:42   at that point you're like uh okay i'm [TS]

00:18:43   finally done with all these flights and [TS]

00:18:44   I'm not into the hotel yet now i gotta [TS]

00:18:46   get a rental car and like every like [TS]

00:18:48   picosecond that goes by that you're [TS]

00:18:50   having to deal with that person and [TS]

00:18:52   they're asking what the gps and in and [TS]

00:18:54   dudn't know I just you know I mean it's [TS]

00:18:57   like yeah that's the problem is though [TS]

00:18:59   there with a device that's kind of what [TS]

00:19:01   you really want you wanna be able to [TS]

00:19:03   cover people's needs with an ATM but you [TS]

00:19:07   know you don't want to turn into the I [TS]

00:19:09   mean I again but we're going to guess [TS]

00:19:10   what I'm saying is we're going to [TS]

00:19:11   evaluate that interaction based on how [TS]

00:19:13   little time it took its kind of how I [TS]

00:19:15   feel about going out to eat I just want [TS]

00:19:16   somebody is extremely efficient I don't [TS]

00:19:18   want to talk about my day [TS]

00:19:19   hi guys how y'all doing tonight how we [TS]

00:19:22   deal and i'm skipping mind if I don't [TS]

00:19:24   just settle in here to reminisce with [TS]

00:19:25   you say lots of our appies via the great [TS]

00:19:29   thing about the rental car business at [TS]

00:19:31   airports is that you know they know that [TS]

00:19:33   you're exhausted they know that you just [TS]

00:19:35   want to get out of there and that's why [TS]

00:19:37   they take that opportunity to upsell u14 [TS]

00:19:39   time it's all that's the thing is their [TS]

00:19:41   margins are so thin right down and it's [TS]

00:19:44   gonna be all about all that other crap [TS]

00:19:46   in the collision and explaining their [TS]

00:19:48   the other just counting on you going [TS]

00:19:49   like fine fine fine whatever whatever [TS]

00:19:51   whatever like give it to me but what's [TS]

00:19:54   amazing is that my interacting with my [TS]

00:19:57   iphone as much as I do how much the [TS]

00:20:01   business model of the internet right now [TS]

00:20:03   is based on that same kind of coercion [TS]

00:20:05   like oh are you really excited to watch [TS]

00:20:09   this this little YouTube video well why [TS]

00:20:11   don't we take 15 seconds and talk about [TS]

00:20:13   your courage [TS]

00:20:14   plans for the the best one is I I [TS]

00:20:17   figured out like my latest attack which [TS]

00:20:21   is akin to my hack of never upgrading my [TS]

00:20:23   operating system huh [TS]

00:20:24   my latest attack is i went in and i [TS]

00:20:26   turned off cellular data uh in my iphone [TS]

00:20:31   on all my games [TS]

00:20:33   ok interesting that is a life hack I [TS]

00:20:36   don't want my games interacting with the [TS]

00:20:37   internet and what I discovered is I [TS]

00:20:40   turned off cellular data for my games [TS]

00:20:42   and that prohibits the games from [TS]

00:20:46   downloading video advertisements which [TS]

00:20:50   often are the thing that Jam my phone up [TS]

00:20:53   the most absolutely but Apple has made [TS]

00:20:58   sure that every time I turn on something [TS]

00:21:01   that has cellular data disabled it pops [TS]

00:21:06   up a screen that says cellular data is [TS]

00:21:09   disabled for this and it won't let me do [TS]

00:21:12   anything else right until I close that [TS]

00:21:15   screen and so I never thought of that [TS]

00:21:18   because the average the the revenue is [TS]

00:21:20   going to come from advertising right so [TS]

00:21:22   never thought of that [TS]

00:21:23   so they are you know they're doing they [TS]

00:21:25   they allow it but they make sure to [TS]

00:21:29   punish you each time by saying like this [TS]

00:21:32   thing that you know you've done where we [TS]

00:21:36   want you to know that you've done it you [TS]

00:21:37   think that's Apple i mean i think the [TS]

00:21:40   Apple functionality of telling you you [TS]

00:21:42   can't do something because you shut that [TS]

00:21:43   off is a good idea [TS]

00:21:44   reminding you that you're in airplane [TS]

00:21:46   mode or something I mean for that I [TS]

00:21:47   thought would look more to the [TS]

00:21:48   developers who are putting ads in there [TS]

00:21:50   is the way to sustain that I'm not sure [TS]

00:21:52   because you know like sometimes I will [TS]

00:21:54   make the mistake out i'll turn off [TS]

00:21:56   location services in something because i [TS]

00:22:00   don't want my photos tagged million [TS]

00:22:03   shares location but then and i'm not [TS]

00:22:05   even sure if that works that may just be [TS]

00:22:07   a total like problem but i do what i can [TS]

00:22:12   to not have my photos tagged [TS]

00:22:14   particularly you know what I'm lying in [TS]

00:22:15   bed at night sending naked texts out to [TS]

00:22:19   friends in Europe when you break into [TS]

00:22:22   the White House you know I don't want [TS]

00:22:24   like that tagged exactly what up [TS]

00:22:27   but then i'll click on the map program [TS]

00:22:30   now why would I be doing that right if I [TS]

00:22:35   didn't want right to know if I didn't [TS]

00:22:37   want the map to like serve me here by [TS]

00:22:40   knowing where i am and you know and the [TS]

00:22:43   idea that at that point the thing pops [TS]

00:22:46   up and says you need to you what you [TS]

00:22:48   can't turn that on from here you need to [TS]

00:22:52   now go back to your settings and enable [TS]

00:22:56   location services and then come back [TS]

00:22:57   here right and you're standing on a [TS]

00:22:59   street corner and pouring down raining [TS]

00:23:01   right exactly and then after exactly the [TS]

00:23:03   scenario we're talking about and it's [TS]

00:23:04   just like a the that somebody hasn't [TS]

00:23:08   thought that through that if you click [TS]

00:23:09   on map like let's just assume that [TS]

00:23:11   location services and it is enabled like [TS]

00:23:14   uh the night that the point zero one [TS]

00:23:17   percent of the time that I go on into [TS]

00:23:19   maps and just want to see like where's [TS]

00:23:21   the 17th a tourism mole in Paris who you [TS]

00:23:25   know i would like to see that on in my [TS]

00:23:26   map program rather than googling it its [TS]

00:23:29   that's negligible compared to the number [TS]

00:23:31   of times when I'm in a hurry and I'm [TS]

00:23:34   like oh where is that place you know I'm [TS]

00:23:35   within to love using it really as a [TS]

00:23:37   traditional atlas in that instance i'm [TS]

00:23:39   using it look we're a thing is that [TS]

00:23:41   regard to where you are right now [TS]

00:23:42   I do that sometimes like chef the Faroe [TS]

00:23:44   Islands I wonder how many natural water [TS]

00:23:48   sources they're all in the parallel i [TS]

00:23:49   wonder if i can see them from my map [TS]

00:23:52   program it'll be able to be you know [TS]

00:23:55   there's a lot of i mean i don't i don't [TS]

00:23:57   flip through atlases anymore like I once [TS]

00:23:59   did my whole life and so all i have is [TS]

00:24:02   this little black box that comes to bed [TS]

00:24:04   with me every night and I just get to [TS]

00:24:07   flip through it it may require updating [TS]

00:24:10   but there is in iOS 8 just for what it's [TS]

00:24:13   worth Chancellor key so we let me if I [TS]

00:24:15   don't see something out there is [TS]

00:24:16   actually way to go on to privacy and [TS]

00:24:18   then location services and it's kinda [TS]

00:24:20   it's kinda cool [TS]

00:24:21   you always have the ability to turn the [TS]

00:24:24   location to never and then depending on [TS]

00:24:27   the app usually your other choice is use [TS]

00:24:29   location while i'm using it or use it [TS]

00:24:31   all the time so that's kinda cool but [TS]

00:24:34   that was just another is granularity to [TS]

00:24:35   shutting it off if you want just never I [TS]

00:24:37   mean I have most of mindset to never [TS]

00:24:39   because I'm like you know why [TS]

00:24:40   is this drawing program that my kid uses [TS]

00:24:42   want that one of my location mnoi just [TS]

00:24:46   to see how many you can do this with its [TS]

00:24:48   kind of creepy always never those are my [TS]

00:24:51   options [TS]

00:24:51   well also while using so if you go in [TS]

00:24:53   this case I got a chrome the browser and [TS]

00:24:55   it says the location access never or [TS]

00:24:58   just while using the app so that that's [TS]

00:25:00   an upgrade because right now on when I [TS]

00:25:02   go to privacy I just have always know [TS]

00:25:04   while using the app hello some of them [TS]

00:25:07   have that some of them do [TS]

00:25:09   yeah so that should help a little bit [TS]

00:25:11   thank you John siracusa for your [TS]

00:25:13   constant yelling at merlin homicide [TS]

00:25:17   I satisfied with your care and this in [TS]

00:25:19   this instance you have forced Merlin to [TS]

00:25:21   do a thing then and as you have Merlin [TS]

00:25:23   has showed dinosaur John know but listen [TS]

00:25:27   i want to i want to also commiserate [TS]

00:25:28   because you know as I don't think it's [TS]

00:25:31   transparently obvious to people what [TS]

00:25:34   kinds of things you should flip on for [TS]

00:25:35   wear and it does have an impact on your [TS]

00:25:37   battery life and on your to some extent [TS]

00:25:41   your privacy right well I'm like it look [TS]

00:25:44   at any any service you sign up for the [TS]

00:25:45   web [TS]

00:25:46   the first thing i do when i set up for [TS]

00:25:47   anything goes straight to the settings [TS]

00:25:49   and straight to profile where I am [TS]

00:25:51   increasingly not even surprised anymore [TS]

00:25:52   when it's saying make everything public [TS]

00:25:54   you know you just gotta go in there and [TS]

00:25:56   go it was just you know you I don't [TS]

00:25:58   really want my want all my information I [TS]

00:26:00   don't wanna be accessible i don't want [TS]

00:26:01   the email i'm saying is really is buyer [TS]

00:26:03   beware at this point where you've got to [TS]

00:26:05   go in and make sure that your ducks in a [TS]

00:26:06   row with those things [TS]

00:26:07   yeah yeah it is buyer beware well I'm [TS]

00:26:10   the thing is you talk about battery life [TS]

00:26:12   yeah my it's my psychic better little [TS]

00:26:15   battery life [TS]

00:26:16   that is always always always always [TS]

00:26:19   agents it's always on three percent and [TS]

00:26:22   I'm afraid that that that it's gonna [TS]

00:26:24   shut off its I'm afraid that my battery [TS]

00:26:25   life is gonna shut me down at fifteen [TS]

00:26:27   percent which are used to do before i [TS]

00:26:29   got the upgrade [TS]

00:26:30   yeah and I don't want to you know [TS]

00:26:34   actually lately I've had a surprising [TS]

00:26:36   amount of energy and it's because I'm [TS]

00:26:38   I'm undergoing a forced program of [TS]

00:26:40   energy i can't wait to hear about this [TS]

00:26:42   well you know what i mean i got it's [TS]

00:26:44   just like okay you you have to show up [TS]

00:26:46   yeah when you have stuff to do you just [TS]

00:26:47   have to have you you find reservoirs of [TS]

00:26:50   energy that that prior would have seemed [TS]

00:26:53   inaccessible yeah i'm and and and it's [TS]

00:26:57   always that feeling you know that [TS]

00:26:58   feeling when you're like crusting a [TS]

00:26:59   mountain range or above the tree line [TS]

00:27:02   and you know over that Ridge there's a [TS]

00:27:04   little lake and you just got to get [TS]

00:27:06   there but you're really tired you have [TS]

00:27:10   to find that energy to you know to push [TS]

00:27:12   up / and then it's downhill to the [TS]

00:27:15   little lake it helps to know there's [TS]

00:27:16   something there though [TS]

00:27:18   yeah right we're trying to use every [TS]

00:27:19   part of the time Buffalo it helps a lot [TS]

00:27:21   to know that that [TS]

00:27:22   oh I just don't need to get through the [TS]

00:27:24   rest of my life I need to get through [TS]

00:27:25   this morning [TS]

00:27:26   you know what I mean yeah right and that [TS]

00:27:28   and so often the problem of living a [TS]

00:27:30   life like mine was formerly that it was [TS]

00:27:35   always a false horizon you know always a [TS]

00:27:37   false summit like you're coming up the [TS]

00:27:40   trail and you're like I can see light [TS]

00:27:41   through the trees i'm at the summit and [TS]

00:27:44   you get when you get to that use you [TS]

00:27:46   crest that Ridge and you're like oh it's [TS]

00:27:48   just a ridge i'm not at the summit like [TS]

00:27:50   then you see watch the mountain go up [TS]

00:27:52   and played apples tell me to go here on [TS]

00:27:57   top of the windmill this isn't my are [TS]

00:27:59   not having a meeting here I'm Chamber of [TS]

00:28:02   Commerce is tapping their feet are so [TS]

00:28:07   impressive to hear that was one of the [TS]

00:28:08   things I was most kind of quietly [TS]

00:28:10   concerned about was like what a huge [TS]

00:28:11   adjustment [TS]

00:28:12   I mean that's it sounds like i'm calling [TS]

00:28:14   you lazy which is not what I mean to be [TS]

00:28:15   saying which is that knowing that you [TS]

00:28:17   are a night owl [TS]

00:28:18   let's put it that way you you tell you [TS]

00:28:20   in my experience given the options you [TS]

00:28:22   tend to prefer to do a lot of your stuff [TS]

00:28:24   at night [TS]

00:28:25   yeah it's a lifestyle well it's [TS]

00:28:27   interesting how it's [TS]

00:28:29   just like when you change the job and [TS]

00:28:32   you're doing something else and then [TS]

00:28:33   that becomes the new thing that you're [TS]

00:28:35   doing it was always hard for me to get [TS]

00:28:37   up in the morning but now I have things [TS]

00:28:40   to do so i'm getting up in the morning [TS]

00:28:41   and then you settle into a thing where [TS]

00:28:43   it's like oh it's no harder for me to [TS]

00:28:45   get up in the morning then it is anybody [TS]

00:28:47   else right [TS]

00:28:48   it's just that the problem isn't getting [TS]

00:28:51   up in the morning the problem is it's [TS]

00:28:52   always hard to get up when the only [TS]

00:28:56   thing motivating you to do your work is [TS]

00:28:59   you all I know that that's talk about [TS]

00:29:01   going up the ridge you get there and [TS]

00:29:03   you're like his there's nothing here [TS]

00:29:04   this is not what I I didn't do these [TS]

00:29:07   10,000 other things in order to be here [TS]

00:29:09   and like you know the right is not there [TS]

00:29:11   the the paintings not there whatever it [TS]

00:29:13   is right [TS]

00:29:14   yeah yeah I i totally agree the thing i [TS]

00:29:16   feel like i am going through like my [TS]

00:29:18   wife is working more she's changed jobs [TS]

00:29:21   and is working a lot more just great and [TS]

00:29:24   I'm very happy to and really enjoy my [TS]

00:29:26   time with the kids so it is more like [TS]

00:29:29   especially in the afternoons you know it [TS]

00:29:30   is it's like I maybe like you I got used [TS]

00:29:34   to having a certain number of [TS]

00:29:36   constraints [TS]

00:29:37   yeah but you know there would be a few [TS]

00:29:39   constraints in the day I think for me [TS]

00:29:41   work is challenging especially somebody [TS]

00:29:42   who loves to sleep is to have the [TS]

00:29:44   constraint of their stuff that needs to [TS]

00:29:46   happen up to a certain point at night [TS]

00:29:48   especially if you want to have a social [TS]

00:29:50   life or whatever but you know even just [TS]

00:29:52   like getting the the bath has to happen [TS]

00:29:54   every night whether we feel like it or [TS]

00:29:55   not like you know we can only tolerate [TS]

00:29:56   the kitchen being dirty for so long you [TS]

00:29:59   don't mean you want to be an animal so [TS]

00:30:01   on the one hand there's the stuff that [TS]

00:30:02   has to happen tonight and it is the [TS]

00:30:03   stuff that really needs to happen at a [TS]

00:30:04   certain point in the morning extremely [TS]

00:30:06   what rare that my kid wakes up later [TS]

00:30:08   than six so that problem is though then [TS]

00:30:10   like the funeral saying you feel that in [TS]

00:30:12   between and then you get look up on the [TS]

00:30:14   complaining I'm really actually not i [TS]

00:30:17   got I just invented a new phrase i call [TS]

00:30:19   the grumble brag with which is when you [TS]

00:30:21   are when you claim that you're not [TS]

00:30:24   complaining about something while you're [TS]

00:30:25   totally complaining about it haha but [TS]

00:30:29   anyway when you get enough of those [TS]

00:30:30   little waystations it's why it's so hard [TS]

00:30:31   to have multiple jobs right yeah it [TS]

00:30:34   becomes so much overhead and so much [TS]

00:30:36   like stress about all the little [TS]

00:30:38   checkpoint you have to get to in this [TS]

00:30:39   little rally do you let me ask you a [TS]

00:30:41   question because i was thinking about [TS]

00:30:43   your book [TS]

00:30:43   the other day just as i was driving down [TS]

00:30:45   the street I was like Merlin's book [TS]

00:30:47   yeah Merlin's book was a thing that I [TS]

00:30:49   thought about a lot while you were [TS]

00:30:50   making it and then you know thought [TS]

00:30:53   about it a lot while you were not making [TS]

00:30:55   his deciding not to make it and like do [TS]

00:30:59   you ever fall prey to thinking about [TS]

00:31:02   that [TS]

00:31:03   what is probably quite a pile of writing [TS]

00:31:06   that you did write and think like that's [TS]

00:31:08   something I'm gonna repurpose for [TS]

00:31:10   something or that's something I'm [TS]

00:31:11   eventually gonna do something else with [TS]

00:31:13   or guided every just happy just buried [TS]

00:31:16   it to be honest it is in many ways [TS]

00:31:19   incredibly painful in a number of ways [TS]

00:31:21   it's still still it's difficult to talk [TS]

00:31:23   about because on the one hand it's [TS]

00:31:25   painful that this was something i was [TS]

00:31:27   very not just passionate about but felt [TS]

00:31:30   really uniquely capable of doing [TS]

00:31:33   I had a lot of thoughts I had no there's [TS]

00:31:34   no dearth of thoughts in my head about [TS]

00:31:36   what to what to do and I had a lot to [TS]

00:31:38   say I produced a lot of words i didn't [TS]

00:31:43   love that many of the words and i'm [TS]

00:31:47   actually going to settle this before but [TS]

00:31:49   I'm going somewhere with this way the [TS]

00:31:50   the part that makes it looks super [TS]

00:31:51   painful though it was we get to get into [TS]

00:31:54   the sunk cost fallacy stuff where I [TS]

00:31:55   start thinking about what that did in my [TS]

00:31:57   family for so long like for so long my [TS]

00:32:00   wife was just unbelievably supportive [TS]

00:32:02   and said yes to anything I ask for until [TS]

00:32:04   I started to really like honestly abused [TS]

00:32:07   it but like there were times like how [TS]

00:32:09   long does it take me to learn i'm not [TS]

00:32:10   going to write anything good and or [TS]

00:32:12   substantial after seven o'clock at night [TS]

00:32:14   and yes i would happen because i'm so [TS]

00:32:16   stressed out about that i would happily [TS]

00:32:17   leave her with all of the household [TS]

00:32:19   duties while I go out and sit there and [TS]

00:32:21   feel terrible about myself that's all [TS]

00:32:23   that's that was all very difficult i [TS]

00:32:25   still feel em failures too strong of war [TS]

00:32:27   but i certainly feel like a success and [TS]

00:32:29   how that whole thing went the other big [TS]

00:32:31   part of this which you didn't ask about [TS]

00:32:33   this but the other big part of this is [TS]

00:32:35   just how much the landscape has changed [TS]

00:32:38   which we've talked about this i mean is [TS]

00:32:40   true for musicians but it's really true [TS]

00:32:42   for all kinds of what will generally [TS]

00:32:44   call content creators the evenin the [TS]

00:32:46   last year that's changed let alone the [TS]

00:32:48   last five years so I mean on the one [TS]

00:32:50   hand i had a lot of stuff you know [TS]

00:32:52   probably close to a hundred thousand [TS]

00:32:53   words of words i started out with 40,000 [TS]

00:32:56   just off [TS]

00:32:56   website that need to be added a lot of [TS]

00:32:58   words but I never really got it to be [TS]

00:33:01   the thing i wanted and it's not even the [TS]

00:33:03   thing as always feeling this pressure to [TS]

00:33:04   make it a kind of about email even [TS]

00:33:06   though it didn't have to be an email [TS]

00:33:07   more and more that felt like such a [TS]

00:33:09   millstone to me so it's not like i have [TS]

00:33:12   that much I want to do with that the [TS]

00:33:13   ideas in there are still very powerful [TS]

00:33:15   and very lively to me just now that [TS]

00:33:17   comes out in podcast the thing the thing [TS]

00:33:19   though ultimately makes it something I'm [TS]

00:33:21   not trying to repurpose or really [TS]

00:33:23   explore I don't know I'm I would not [TS]

00:33:27   rule out writing a book at some point [TS]

00:33:29   but I writing anything right now is a [TS]

00:33:31   really tough racket mean it's a very [TS]

00:33:33   tough racket and i think that the [TS]

00:33:35   industry has changed business has [TS]

00:33:37   changed and i think the audience has [TS]

00:33:38   changed so honestly the kinds of things [TS]

00:33:41   that people will pay not that much money [TS]

00:33:43   for our things I don't necessarily want [TS]

00:33:45   to write I don't want to write listicles [TS]

00:33:46   i don't i don't want to produce dozens [TS]

00:33:49   of kindle books you know and it's not [TS]

00:33:51   what it's really if this was true in [TS]

00:33:53   2009 but it's really true now that it [TS]

00:33:55   and something Hodgins said when he was [TS]

00:33:57   saying that this is a good idea to do [TS]

00:33:58   and he was right [TS]

00:33:59   is that you know this is how you get [TS]

00:34:00   invited on the fresh air like this is [TS]

00:34:01   how this is your jumping off point to a [TS]

00:34:03   bigger thing right is like once you're [TS]

00:34:05   an author it changes everything [TS]

00:34:07   yeah but it wasn't even that I was [TS]

00:34:09   looking for it was just being able to [TS]

00:34:11   feel like the time and energy and stress [TS]

00:34:13   that i had invested in that I wanted to [TS]

00:34:15   turn into something really great and [TS]

00:34:16   timeless maybe that was too much [TS]

00:34:18   pressure to put on myself but it just [TS]

00:34:20   became too much and now today like you [TS]

00:34:22   know the whole inbox zero thing is like [TS]

00:34:24   really just the whole concept is so [TS]

00:34:26   annoying and then willful [TS]

00:34:28   misunderstanding of what i was trying to [TS]

00:34:30   say struggling to say yeah makes it a [TS]

00:34:31   little bit dead in the water to me but [TS]

00:34:33   honestly that the thing as I stand here [TS]

00:34:35   today yes i still feel terrible about [TS]

00:34:36   how that went for everybody involved but [TS]

00:34:38   it is also a thing of like you know all [TS]

00:34:41   things being equal if you're a reality [TS]

00:34:43   TV star having somebody ghostwriter book [TS]

00:34:44   is not a bad idea that somebody who [TS]

00:34:46   wants to sweat every single word of [TS]

00:34:48   something that will probably take nine [TS]

00:34:49   months to a year to do I guess that's [TS]

00:34:51   tough work for what you can expect in [TS]

00:34:53   return today [TS]

00:34:53   yeah yeah that setup is that I answered [TS]

00:34:56   that fairly yeah you did [TS]

00:34:58   i mean i-i think about it a lot in a [TS]

00:35:01   different way now because I because I'm [TS]

00:35:04   I've been reflecting on the last period [TS]

00:35:07   of my life which is kind of you know [TS]

00:35:09   it's the wisdom of retrospect you look [TS]

00:35:11   back and say oh actually the last period [TS]

00:35:13   of my life which seemed to go by and I [TS]

00:35:15   blink actually was two distinct periods [TS]

00:35:17   and it was filled with these two sort of [TS]

00:35:20   different as you as you as you a portion [TS]

00:35:25   your life into eras yeah by looking back [TS]

00:35:29   and saying like which in my experience [TS]

00:35:30   takes several years to realize what area [TS]

00:35:33   that really was [TS]

00:35:33   yeah right and at some of that is [TS]

00:35:35   happening now and you know it a lot of [TS]

00:35:41   the projects that i have pursued over [TS]

00:35:43   the course of my whole adult life but in [TS]

00:35:45   particular the last handful of years and [TS]

00:35:49   they didn't come all the way to fruition [TS]

00:35:51   I and that there was a period of sitting [TS]

00:35:54   and being very excited about the about a [TS]

00:35:56   television show i was thinking of making [TS]

00:35:58   when I drove across America and went to [TS]

00:36:00   went to little depressed cities and [TS]

00:36:05   tried to identify it there arc from the [TS]

00:36:09   time that they were founded through the [TS]

00:36:11   time with cyber school and I totally see [TS]

00:36:14   you doing that than I ever describe this [TS]

00:36:15   to you I don't remember you describing [TS]

00:36:17   this but that actually is like that [TS]

00:36:19   sounds like forgive my saying that [TS]

00:36:21   sounds like the work you were made for [TS]

00:36:22   it really would be a really good at that [TS]

00:36:24   I was super excited about you know you [TS]

00:36:26   and and and he'd come in to put tipsy [TS]

00:36:28   and you'd say like here's what here's [TS]

00:36:31   what this land looked like when there [TS]

00:36:33   was an Indian settlement here and here's [TS]

00:36:35   why the here's why the settlers chose it [TS]

00:36:38   because it was a great place to build a [TS]

00:36:39   mill and here's what they milled and [TS]

00:36:42   then there was a period of great [TS]

00:36:43   prosperity when they figured out how to [TS]

00:36:45   out to you know what this this was the [TS]

00:36:48   place where they invented the tie tack [TS]

00:36:50   and the tie tack blew up and everybody [TS]

00:36:53   in the world needed one and this was tie [TS]

00:36:55   tack central and I sack boom you know [TS]

00:36:57   that's why they're all these beautiful [TS]

00:36:58   uh beaux-arts mansions up on this one [TS]

00:37:03   particular hill that they call founders [TS]

00:37:05   hill and and then world war one came and [TS]

00:37:08   you know and I could be telling this [TS]

00:37:09   story in both at both video but also [TS]

00:37:14   animation and and historical photographs [TS]

00:37:18   and you know just kind of do this [TS]

00:37:20   sweeping [TS]

00:37:22   a rama of a place and then say then you [TS]

00:37:25   know us manufacturing decline looks like [TS]

00:37:28   cosmos but hyperlocal right right and I [TS]

00:37:31   mean that sounds really silly but he's [TS]

00:37:33   so great and look at second and Tyson no [TS]

00:37:36   deGrasse Tyson alright they're both so [TS]

00:37:38   great at taking these complex ideas and [TS]

00:37:40   making it something that not only kind [TS]

00:37:42   of kind of understand but you find [TS]

00:37:43   incredibly interesting by being very [TS]

00:37:45   specific but limited like you're not [TS]

00:37:47   going to cover everything like in that [TS]

00:37:49   your case you're not you're reading the [TS]

00:37:50   encyclopedia for pickup see it's more [TS]

00:37:52   like saying what you taught me that I'm [TS]

00:37:54   so grateful for is like you can just [TS]

00:37:56   look at the complexion of this land [TS]

00:37:58   look at where this water is look at [TS]

00:37:59   where that hill is look at how until [TS]

00:38:01   they had promised ridiculous you [TS]

00:38:03   couldn't live up on that part of the [TS]

00:38:04   hill that you know yeah y-you're I think [TS]

00:38:06   you're awfully good at that and and it's [TS]

00:38:08   exciting because once you once you open [TS]

00:38:10   your mind to that way of seeing you can [TS]

00:38:13   look at your own town that way it [TS]

00:38:15   doesn't you know you wouldn't need a TV [TS]

00:38:16   show to do it you can like like you say [TS]

00:38:18   there's a reason that somebody planted [TS]

00:38:20   their their flag here and it's usually [TS]

00:38:22   because that was where the water was and [TS]

00:38:24   that was where the that's what was a [TS]

00:38:26   defensible position and the city grew [TS]

00:38:29   this way and that way you can tell where [TS]

00:38:31   it is like that hope that whole mission [TS]

00:38:33   i was on when I was on tour with Harvey [TS]

00:38:35   danger where every time every town on [TS]

00:38:38   the east coast and in the southeast in [TS]

00:38:40   particular we pull in the bus would stop [TS]

00:38:43   open up the door and the tour manager [TS]

00:38:45   would say well you guys got four hours [TS]

00:38:46   to kill until soundcheck and I would [TS]

00:38:49   walk up the bus am going to find the [TS]

00:38:51   Civil War graveyard gonna find the Civil [TS]

00:38:53   War graveyard that is in every one of [TS]

00:38:55   these towns and invariably where it was [TS]

00:38:58   would have been the outskirts of town in [TS]

00:39:04   1870 without having to look it up on a [TS]

00:39:07   city by City basis you can get a pretty [TS]

00:39:09   good reckoning [TS]

00:39:10   yeah you just know like okay I know I [TS]

00:39:11   know that it's not on the outskirts of [TS]

00:39:13   town now right because there's no [TS]

00:39:15   there's no town back east that has grown [TS]

00:39:18   none but it's but in a lot of cases it's [TS]

00:39:23   kind of in the decaying inner ring and [TS]

00:39:27   then you find the civil work graveyard [TS]

00:39:28   know that you kind of can see then that [TS]

00:39:31   everything built outside of it [TS]

00:39:35   was built after 1870 and everything [TS]

00:39:38   inside of it at least that was that [TS]

00:39:41   those were the city limits and Sons like [TS]

00:39:43   a little a little clue you can mostly [TS]

00:39:45   count on you right and and and it's [TS]

00:39:47   different in every place and you know [TS]

00:39:48   and the the Yankee graveyards are very [TS]

00:39:51   different than the southern ones and and [TS]

00:39:54   it was just a kind of little game to [TS]

00:39:57   play to pass the time that that got me [TS]

00:39:59   out and walking but I learned a lot by [TS]

00:40:02   just kind of seeking this this little [TS]

00:40:05   depression in the ground anyway so that [TS]

00:40:08   was a that was a television show that I [TS]

00:40:10   that I really wanted to to make and got [TS]

00:40:13   excited about and then I was like well [TS]

00:40:14   of course we're going to buy a GMC RV to [TS]

00:40:17   drive around the country and and I [TS]

00:40:20   started talking to people and people in [TS]

00:40:22   television and they were like well [TS]

00:40:23   what's the hook [TS]

00:40:24   I was like well but hook is that it's [TS]

00:40:28   really a cool idea because we hook is [TS]

00:40:31   usually I think it has that case like [TS]

00:40:33   that because usually you're already [TS]

00:40:35   really famous in some other way right [TS]

00:40:38   now from TV or elsewhere you know I mean [TS]

00:40:40   like Anthony Bourdain's that his name is [TS]

00:40:42   a show like that that's like better than [TS]

00:40:43   it should be because he's a very [TS]

00:40:46   interesting guy would have gotten that [TS]

00:40:47   show if you weren't already like a [TS]

00:40:48   celebrity chef probably not and that's [TS]

00:40:49   the thing people kept saying to me like [TS]

00:40:51   well if you had written a book about the [TS]

00:40:52   American town and I'm like right i mean [TS]

00:40:56   this would kind of be the book i would [TS]

00:40:57   write about the American town this video [TS]

00:40:59   show and then people would like well i [TS]

00:41:02   mean if you were like it if you were [TS]

00:41:04   anthony kiedis I'm like well yeah I mean [TS]

00:41:08   if I was anthony kiedis I'd be happy in [TS]

00:41:12   a hot tub in vegas right i mean i [TS]

00:41:14   wouldn't be doing this and he's a nice [TS]

00:41:18   guy but it's all public images someone [TS]

00:41:20   suffering only i love it too hey don't [TS]

00:41:23   forget about him there but but no shirt [TS]

00:41:26   now but then they were like well what if [TS]

00:41:28   you know what if what if you got to that [TS]

00:41:30   town and then you found the cool [TS]

00:41:33   artisanal uh like mustard factory that [TS]

00:41:38   the pic the mustache kids had built in [TS]

00:41:41   the old abandoned hotel I was like yeah [TS]

00:41:45   I'd be into that let's start sound like [TS]

00:41:48   a different show though who different [TS]

00:41:50   channel 2 100 now it's like if so then I [TS]

00:41:54   started following that stream and I'm [TS]

00:41:56   like what if I went to all the depressed [TS]

00:41:57   towns in America and found them the [TS]

00:42:00   artisanal must mustard factory that the [TS]

00:42:03   mustache kids had built I was like [TS]

00:42:05   that's an interesting show [TS]

00:42:07   it's not quite at em right in my [TS]

00:42:10   wheelhouse it's not yet i would i'm i'm [TS]

00:42:13   happy to interact with those people and [TS]

00:42:15   that would that would be a fun [TS]

00:42:17   exploratory like but a lot of those [TS]

00:42:19   towns don't have an artisanal must [TS]

00:42:21   mustard factory a lot of those towns [TS]

00:42:23   just have artisanal crank getting [TS]

00:42:26   manufactured and you know like the town [TS]

00:42:28   hasn't found its its footing yet and so [TS]

00:42:31   that the idea can be evolving and [TS]

00:42:33   eventually it just maybe this is [TS]

00:42:36   somebody actually talk to somebody about [TS]

00:42:37   I talk to a lot of people about it and [TS]

00:42:38   and the and the and eventually it was [TS]

00:42:42   like the consensus was the classic thing [TS]

00:42:45   that that that my good friend christine [TS]

00:42:48   connor said to me one time which is that [TS]

00:42:50   people come all the time and say I don't [TS]

00:42:54   watch TV but I've got a great idea for a [TS]

00:42:57   television show right and she said the [TS]

00:43:00   problem is that Pete the people who do [TS]

00:43:02   watch TV do not want people who don't [TS]

00:43:05   watch TV to make television for them and [TS]

00:43:09   us she's the reason she's in the corner [TS]

00:43:11   office that's really she's so smart [TS]

00:43:13   right [TS]

00:43:13   yeah and and so so what the program that [TS]

00:43:17   I wanted to make was exactly the type of [TS]

00:43:19   thing that would get me to watch TV but [TS]

00:43:22   that's not what you know that that isn't [TS]

00:43:25   half of the type of program that the [TS]

00:43:26   executives approve and there was no [TS]

00:43:29   component of my show where where there [TS]

00:43:33   was no sex tape component no one got [TS]

00:43:37   into a hair-pulling fight with anybody [TS]

00:43:39   else there wasn't you know I never said [TS]

00:43:42   BAM right and I didn't you know and I [TS]

00:43:46   never added a like bacon seasoning [TS]

00:43:49   vacancies and he's ready to it it [TS]

00:43:52   wouldn't be expressly to make people cry [TS]

00:43:53   which has a certain appeal [TS]

00:43:55   not celebrity based strictly speaking [TS]

00:43:57   it's not it's not emotionally [TS]

00:43:58   base it's not about making you feel [TS]

00:44:00   better or more competent but there's so [TS]

00:44:02   many non fiction TV shows that are about [TS]

00:44:05   making you feel like you're a chef even [TS]

00:44:07   though you're mostly someone who watches [TS]

00:44:08   TV and I think what it what it is is [TS]

00:44:11   that PBS used to fund that kind of thing [TS]

00:44:13   and doesn't as years ago [TS]

00:44:15   yeah and there and all the things that [TS]

00:44:17   came into the televisions fear that [TS]

00:44:19   seemed like little PBS's like like the [TS]

00:44:23   discovery channel and the National [TS]

00:44:24   Geographic Channel and all these things [TS]

00:44:26   you know the smithsonian channel where [TS]

00:44:27   you're like oh my god it's a world of [TS]

00:44:29   public television and then every one of [TS]

00:44:31   those channels devolved away from like [TS]

00:44:38   National Geographic is just about cute [TS]

00:44:40   tiger babies decided but that should all [TS]

00:44:42   be so telling to think about Bravo and [TS]

00:44:45   ediscovery i'm not super familiar with [TS]

00:44:47   National Geographic that was kind of [TS]

00:44:49   after my time we take any of those [TS]

00:44:50   things they all started out with the [TS]

00:44:53   aspiration of being a i think i would [TS]

00:44:56   suggest that but I mean with the [TS]

00:44:57   aspiration of having sort of a [TS]

00:44:59   high-minded calling like any had some [TS]

00:45:01   really nerdy they would show opera on oh [TS]

00:45:04   yeah [TS]

00:45:05   Marisnick off right exactly it's the [TS]

00:45:07   arts and entertainment and ditto ditto [TS]

00:45:09   for bravo and you know there was a time [TS]

00:45:12   before the advent of you know shark week [TS]

00:45:14   when you could really see I don't know [TS]

00:45:17   and I'm not gonna let grumbling what I'm [TS]

00:45:18   saying is like once again let's just say [TS]

00:45:20   that the market has changed i found [TS]

00:45:21   something that was more palatable and [TS]

00:45:22   profitable that guy that announcer for [TS]

00:45:25   Bravo that's just like all the Bravo the [TS]

00:45:28   top 10 greatest falls like I remember [TS]

00:45:33   watching this channel where it was like [TS]

00:45:34   masterpiece theater [TS]

00:45:36   uh-huh and it now it's just like on [TS]

00:45:38   bravo we're going to go into your closet [TS]

00:45:40   and find all the dirtiest shit we can [TS]

00:45:42   find our orders you like to cook [TS]

00:45:46   shirtless on motorcycles but so so but [TS]

00:45:51   but that the time i spent thinking about [TS]

00:45:56   that television show and plotting it out [TS]

00:45:58   and imagining it and Imagineering it [TS]

00:46:01   let's be honest and the engineer and [TS]

00:46:04   engine even and then really trying to [TS]

00:46:07   think who the market was who I could who [TS]

00:46:10   would how much it would cost to produce [TS]

00:46:12   those episodes and whether or not i [TS]

00:46:15   could sell fund those are internet fund [TS]

00:46:18   them what if those episodes were only 15 [TS]

00:46:21   minutes long but if they were 10 minutes [TS]

00:46:22   long what if i sold them to museums [TS]

00:46:26   right what if that was the thing that [TS]

00:46:27   you when you walked into the PFC history [TS]

00:46:31   museum that this video played and down [TS]

00:46:34   and that was a thing that I could make a [TS]

00:46:36   case to the national museum association [TS]

00:46:38   that I would go around the country and [TS]

00:46:39   do these these cool videos about these [TS]

00:46:44   different places like a you know is [TS]

00:46:48   churning all these different ideas and [TS]

00:46:50   in the end none of that stuff got made [TS]

00:46:52   and in a sense like not not yet [TS]

00:46:55   it happened right but but I can't think [TS]

00:46:58   of that as like a failure or a lot or [TS]

00:47:02   lost time because I really worked on it [TS]

00:47:07   and it didn't come to fruition but but i [TS]

00:47:12   do think about the last five years of my [TS]

00:47:15   life as this period where i was i was [TS]

00:47:17   doing that a lot i was like what am I [TS]

00:47:18   gonna use part of your like it's always [TS]

00:47:21   when you work on your own or you do [TS]

00:47:22   creative stuff an element of your job is [TS]

00:47:25   always figuring out what to do next is [TS]

00:47:26   to acknowledge work in general but I [TS]

00:47:28   think when you are creative person and [TS]

00:47:29   I'm not going to get creative because [TS]

00:47:30   everyone should stop saying that when [TS]

00:47:32   your creative person and you make stuff [TS]

00:47:33   and your output is how you are evaluated [TS]

00:47:36   huge part of what you do is thinking [TS]

00:47:38   about what to do next and how but you [TS]

00:47:40   don't really get points for that [TS]

00:47:42   understandably right you don't you don't [TS]

00:47:44   get credit for all the Opera you didn't [TS]

00:47:45   write and and if I had when I first came [TS]

00:47:50   up with this idea if I had quickly [TS]

00:47:52   written a breezy book about the life and [TS]

00:47:58   death of American cities and had like [TS]

00:48:01   gotten that in the book pipeline and had [TS]

00:48:04   gone around and done fresh air and and [TS]

00:48:08   morning talk show circuit about like [TS]

00:48:11   you've got her if if the book at had [TS]

00:48:13   support right gotta read this book it's [TS]

00:48:17   all about life and death American city [TS]

00:48:18   that's where we're at right now and and [TS]

00:48:20   you know these artisanal mustard [TS]

00:48:21   factories aren't going to make [TS]

00:48:22   themselves [TS]

00:48:24   you know and then went because that's [TS]

00:48:27   what David Rees effectively did he made [TS]

00:48:30   that book about pencil sharpening that [TS]

00:48:31   was very much his own personal private [TS]

00:48:35   world his own personal private joke on [TS]

00:48:39   himself and and world that he was [TS]

00:48:42   exploring and then converted that into a [TS]

00:48:45   television show and then he was in a new [TS]

00:48:47   world of of struggle and strife he found [TS]

00:48:52   a way I so interested in this actually [TS]

00:48:54   he found a way tho to guess I would say [TS]

00:48:59   take it and turn it he figured out a way [TS]

00:49:01   to make it not obvious [TS]

00:49:03   so on the one hand you okay all lost [TS]

00:49:05   people people buy lots of books about [TS]

00:49:06   sharpening pencils well not accurate [TS]

00:49:08   like so he found a way to essentially I [TS]

00:49:11   mean I've never even read the whole book [TS]

00:49:13   but from watching the TV show my sense [TS]

00:49:15   is what you're really getting to is that [TS]

00:49:17   he has a very interesting approach to to [TS]

00:49:21   thinking about life and experience and [TS]

00:49:23   expertise and that applies to stuff that [TS]

00:49:26   you might be taken for granted so it's [TS]

00:49:28   not a show about sharpening pencils and [TS]

00:49:30   it's it's it's it's kind of secretly a [TS]

00:49:32   show about curiosity and science science [TS]

00:49:35   science on some level but it's not it [TS]

00:49:37   isn't like educational it doesn't feel [TS]

00:49:39   like you're taking your medicine your [TS]

00:49:40   menu and what makes it so intriguing is [TS]

00:49:42   how how involved he is and how [TS]

00:49:44   interested he is at least on screen in [TS]

00:49:47   in exploring something that you think [TS]

00:49:50   you really understand it doesn't come [TS]

00:49:52   off turns out it doesn't feel like I [TS]

00:49:53   said it doesn't feel like medicine [TS]

00:49:54   that's that's his success there he did [TS]

00:49:56   find a way to Vegas with help from [TS]

00:49:58   people like Christine like figured a way [TS]

00:49:59   to turn that [TS]

00:50:01   yeah and the amazing thing about David [TS]

00:50:03   and this is the great thing about Adam [TS]

00:50:05   Savage and it's a thing that that that [TS]

00:50:10   in a way i have in common with them is [TS]

00:50:12   that both of those guys are still [TS]

00:50:15   totally into an amazed by the things [TS]

00:50:19   that the the things that they discover [TS]

00:50:23   in a very childlike way [TS]

00:50:25   yeah good examples I mean I go out I i [TS]

00:50:29   spent a lot of time traveling with David [TS]

00:50:31   and he is as cynical as the next guy [TS]

00:50:34   about [TS]

00:50:34   the world right but if you lift up a [TS]

00:50:38   rock and there's a frog under it [TS]

00:50:40   David is literally jumping for joy and [TS]

00:50:43   cannot believe that there that he found [TS]

00:50:45   a frog and we were in Ethiopia together [TS]

00:50:48   and we've found this swimming hole out [TS]

00:50:51   in the internet like a nature preserve [TS]

00:50:52   and the local kids were climbing up this [TS]

00:50:55   and probably tall tree and jumping into [TS]

00:50:58   the swimming hole and David could not [TS]

00:51:00   get his clothes off fast enough and I [TS]

00:51:03   was standing there like and and jonathan [TS]

00:51:06   coulton to and saying like uh uh David [TS]

00:51:10   and he's already like well any claims of [TS]

00:51:13   history and he gets up in it and he [TS]

00:51:14   realizes how high it is and he's like oh [TS]

00:51:16   but he's standing there in his underwear [TS]

00:51:19   and there are you know 25 kids cheering [TS]

00:51:22   him on and he's gotta make the jump and [TS]

00:51:26   i'm on the shore like look man here's [TS]

00:51:28   the you know there's one spot in this [TS]

00:51:30   whole that I mean these kids are always [TS]

00:51:34   90 pounds and they can jump off that [TS]

00:51:36   tree but there's one spot in the [TS]

00:51:37   swimming hole that a 210 pound American [TS]

00:51:40   guys going to land and not impale [TS]

00:51:43   himself and it's right here [TS]

00:51:45   do not go anywhere aim here and he jumps [TS]

00:51:48   and he makes the landing and he pops up [TS]

00:51:51   and it's just like it's the most [TS]

00:51:52   beautiful thing you ever saw [TS]

00:51:54   I am never in a million years do that [TS]

00:51:56   for like 50 reasons [TS]

00:51:57   well and the reason that you wouldn't do [TS]

00:51:58   it is that two days later the Giardia [TS]

00:52:01   that went up his nose and his but when [TS]

00:52:03   he jumped in that pool caused him to be [TS]

00:52:04   projectile vomiting and pooping [TS]

00:52:06   everywhere now while we were you know [TS]

00:52:09   like a staying in a single the locals [TS]

00:52:13   for you were acclimated to it [TS]

00:52:15   oh well you know or or they always have [TS]

00:52:18   a low-level case of giardia but but um [TS]

00:52:21   but David was not acclimated to it and [TS]

00:52:23   we were then on a we were then on a navy [TS]

00:52:25   base and trying to find some some cure [TS]

00:52:29   because David couldn't couldn't walk 15 [TS]

00:52:31   feet without needing to run to the [TS]

00:52:33   downtown Miami and but that is the kind [TS]

00:52:35   of you know that's the kind of actual [TS]

00:52:38   like excitement about life and Adam [TS]

00:52:40   Savage is the same thing I think way [TS]

00:52:42   it's just like you just build a scale [TS]

00:52:44   model of the of [TS]

00:52:46   the hedge maze from the shining Why What [TS]

00:52:50   Why Why What Why and it's just like what [TS]

00:52:53   do you mean why have you seen it in [TS]

00:52:56   appointee applied people who make an [TS]

00:52:57   iphone app that says yoga people but [TS]

00:53:00   then you look at him and like what's [TS]

00:53:01   that they're dealing with the bushes [TS]

00:53:02   like that what is that like what good is [TS]

00:53:04   this he's like what good is it it look [TS]

00:53:06   at it it's it it sells itself and it's [TS]

00:53:09   like wow you mean you know like Leon [TS]

00:53:12   Christian is on board one hundred [TS]

00:53:14   percent but that like a normal person [TS]

00:53:16   would have no would have no idea that [TS]

00:53:18   that was made just than that everything [TS]

00:53:22   he makes including his TV show is made [TS]

00:53:24   just out of the spirit of like total [TS]

00:53:25   love and total childlike excitement and [TS]

00:53:29   I have that same quality about the [TS]

00:53:33   things that i love and i think i think a [TS]

00:53:35   lot of people have that quality about [TS]

00:53:36   the things that they well and that you [TS]

00:53:39   know and it's hard to sell its hard to [TS]

00:53:42   sell that excitement about like tipsy [TS]

00:53:46   have you ever looked at it in an atlas [TS]

00:53:48   it's it do you know where the freshwater [TS]

00:53:50   is never gonna make it to the first [TS]

00:53:52   commercial break [TS]

00:53:53   no except that these other nerds have [TS]

00:53:56   managed you know like that and Adams had [TS]

00:53:59   the advantage of like we're gonna blow [TS]

00:54:01   shit up on an old airport [TS]

00:54:03   yeah and whatever David's advantage was [TS]

00:54:06   it was he just invented out of whole [TS]

00:54:08   cloth right yeah and and part of that [TS]

00:54:11   advantage was the pure in probability of [TS]

00:54:13   a guy writing a book about pencils and [TS]

00:54:17   but so I'm still you know i'm still [TS]

00:54:19   turning that and you obviously have been [TS]

00:54:21   trying to write my book about my walk [TS]

00:54:22   across Europe for for 15 years now and [TS]

00:54:26   the last in iteration of it i sent it [TS]

00:54:28   off to a guy in New York City and it's a [TS]

00:54:32   hundred plus thousand words too and he [TS]

00:54:36   you know he was a fan of our program he [TS]

00:54:39   was a he was a big big editor at a at a [TS]

00:54:43   reputable legendary publishing house and [TS]

00:54:48   he was like I'm totally into this i [TS]

00:54:49   really think it's great but these [TS]

00:54:51   hundred thousand words are really more [TS]

00:54:53   like notes for a book no on the last [TS]

00:54:57   thing you want to hear [TS]

00:54:58   I was like notes for a book I was hoping [TS]

00:55:02   you were going to say they just need a [TS]

00:55:03   little bit of you know you just need to [TS]

00:55:05   run government is covering a UPC code [TS]

00:55:08   yeah i was i was getting ready to put [TS]

00:55:09   the author photo know and that you know [TS]

00:55:13   and that was just like right notes for a [TS]

00:55:15   book and the and the world has changed [TS]

00:55:17   so much in that 15 years there's so much [TS]

00:55:19   of that writing is about is about how [TS]

00:55:25   those places were in 1999 and they're [TS]

00:55:27   not like that anymore and really to just [TS]

00:55:31   different to be authentic in some ways [TS]

00:55:33   you have to really rethink the entire [TS]

00:55:34   approach [TS]

00:55:35   yes because you've changed so much since [TS]

00:55:37   then right and and i think the only way [TS]

00:55:39   to do it now is that some at some point [TS]

00:55:42   10 years from now i go retrace my steps [TS]

00:55:45   and then they then that whole book that [TS]

00:55:49   i wrote were they they were notes for a [TS]

00:55:51   book like here's a walk that I did when [TS]

00:55:53   I was 30 and I never finished the book [TS]

00:55:55   so when i was 16 i went and did it again [TS]

00:55:58   this time on a bike that sounds like a [TS]

00:56:01   documentary and on the bike and the bike [TS]

00:56:04   is actually motorized it's called a [TS]

00:56:05   motorcycle who and the motorcycle [TS]

00:56:08   actually is a car and it's actually a [TS]

00:56:12   plane and I flew over the I flew over [TS]

00:56:14   the place that i walked in i wrote my [TS]

00:56:16   reflections on that over a long weekend [TS]

00:56:19   ha you got me [TS]

00:56:22   don't forget no go I you can be really [TS]

00:56:24   thinking about something now it is this [TS]

00:56:25   as sounds kind of karma sucks and I [TS]

00:56:27   don't mean it to be the way that you [TS]

00:56:29   were describing you know talking about [TS]

00:56:33   like trying to get you your concept for [TS]

00:56:35   TV show on some of those places and then [TS]

00:56:37   saying that you know people don't want [TS]

00:56:39   to watch TV from people who don't watch [TS]

00:56:41   TV [TS]

00:56:41   yeah there's something in that is really [TS]

00:56:43   painful and interesting to me because it [TS]

00:56:46   leads to this larger point which is you [TS]

00:56:50   know how little we each ultimately [TS]

00:56:52   understand about the industries were not [TS]

00:56:54   in right so you know you think you've [TS]

00:56:56   read lots of books so you think of [TS]

00:56:58   yourself as somebody who's who could be [TS]

00:56:59   an author like a published author not [TS]

00:57:01   just a writer but published some who [TS]

00:57:02   sells their words for a living and [TS]

00:57:04   periodically and again and again and [TS]

00:57:06   again or you think of yourself as [TS]

00:57:07   something like oh my god I've watched [TS]

00:57:09   and read so much science fiction uh I [TS]

00:57:12   could I could easily make a science [TS]

00:57:13   fiction TV show and get it on netflix [TS]

00:57:15   everybody's doing it nowadays but then [TS]

00:57:16   once you actually meet people inside the [TS]

00:57:18   industry it ends up you rely feel like [TS]

00:57:21   you realize how a how little you really [TS]

00:57:24   understand about that industry like we [TS]

00:57:27   all have these gases and we've read [TS]

00:57:28   things we've read books but in that case [TS]

00:57:30   we're like you go like we haven't liked [TS]

00:57:32   for Jon Jon's show hills and rivers [TS]

00:57:35   where he goes around towards the great [TS]

00:57:36   cities of American discusses their [TS]

00:57:37   complexion like okay who do we think [TS]

00:57:40   that is for and like who would watch [TS]

00:57:42   that but also like who would advertise [TS]

00:57:43   on that show right cause of the problem [TS]

00:57:45   with the show like that i could see that [TS]

00:57:46   being a huge disconnect that you know [TS]

00:57:48   you want young people to watch it but [TS]

00:57:50   it's probably like forward that would [TS]

00:57:52   want to buy an ad on there or Buick or [TS]

00:57:54   whatever anything make Buicks but I [TS]

00:57:56   don't know I just think that's I think [TS]

00:57:57   that's part of it is like it makes the [TS]

00:58:00   can feel depressed it's too strong a [TS]

00:58:03   word but can feel like it keeps you down [TS]

00:58:05   because you start to feel like such a [TS]

00:58:06   dumbass [TS]

00:58:07   yeah he fundamentally don't understand [TS]

00:58:09   this industry and then then finally that [TS]

00:58:11   point like why do you imagine that there [TS]

00:58:13   are there are by tens of thousands of [TS]

00:58:15   people hundreds of thousands of people [TS]

00:58:16   working all these images [TS]

00:58:18   why don't they have TV shows they [TS]

00:58:19   already understand how to make TV you [TS]

00:58:21   like do you think you're actually that [TS]

00:58:22   much better at making a movie than [TS]

00:58:24   somebody who's been like an assistant [TS]

00:58:26   director [TS]

00:58:27   yeah and yet but they're yeoman they do [TS]

00:58:30   their job [TS]

00:58:31   it's just that we look at that go i can [TS]

00:58:32   make the Avengers better or whatever [TS]

00:58:34   it's like well you sure this was a lot [TS]

00:58:36   of people working on that is take right [TS]

00:58:38   well as anybody staffed up some of a big [TS]

00:58:41   part of that it is the it's the classic [TS]

00:58:44   thing and I'm and I'm seeing it now it [TS]

00:58:47   in my foray into politics which is that [TS]

00:58:50   I'm i am encountering the entrenched [TS]

00:58:52   class and they are saying what makes [TS]

00:58:54   exactly that [TS]

00:58:55   what makes you think that you can do [TS]

00:58:56   this better then those of us who are who [TS]

00:59:00   have only been doing this and have been [TS]

00:59:02   doing this for a long time and they're [TS]

00:59:06   absolutely right in the sense that it in [TS]

00:59:09   this same exact sense that you just [TS]

00:59:12   described and the only hope the only [TS]

00:59:16   hope is that routinely there are people [TS]

00:59:21   from outside all these spirits who [TS]

00:59:23   come in with a with a good idea and are [TS]

00:59:25   able to master the vernacular put [TS]

00:59:29   together that the right team of smart [TS]

00:59:32   people to help her and actually do make [TS]

00:59:35   something new from outside and it [TS]

00:59:37   happens infrequently enough but it is [TS]

00:59:40   that but when it does happen it's expect [TS]

00:59:42   so exciting to us that we you know that [TS]

00:59:45   we miss apply the lesson and think wow [TS]

00:59:50   you know that again like I could I could [TS]

00:59:53   make the Avengers better by sitting why [TS]

00:59:55   can't I be Elon Musk right why can't I [TS]

00:59:58   be yeah it kind of isn't that kind of [TS]

00:59:59   over 2 [TS]

00:59:59   over 2 [TS]

01:00:00   what about it is and and and and partly [TS]

01:00:03   you know partly it is this kits the [TS]

01:00:07   question of how what role does expertise [TS]

01:00:13   and experience play in various jobs and [TS]

01:00:18   in you know like pediatric brain surgery [TS]

01:00:22   it's a factor right expertise is the [TS]

01:00:27   whole game there is [TS]

01:00:30   I mean the best pediatric brain surgeon [TS]

01:00:33   and the worst pediatric brain surgeon [TS]

01:00:35   between those two people there is [TS]

01:00:38   inspiration probably is the factor right [TS]

01:00:42   this person has that the best pediatric [TS]

01:00:45   brain surgeon probably has incredible [TS]

01:00:47   dexterity and has a natural physical [TS]

01:00:49   gift and maybe also has inspiration but [TS]

01:00:54   the worst pediatric brain surgeon who [TS]

01:00:56   isn't merely incompetent right who isn't [TS]

01:00:59   in jail or or or or committed [TS]

01:01:02   malpractice but the you know the worst [TS]

01:01:03   one who is still competent is still an [TS]

01:01:06   incredible expert in their field right [TS]

01:01:08   and in things like filmmaking and comedy [TS]

01:01:12   writing and television producing I think [TS]

01:01:16   it's much more it's much more likely [TS]

01:01:19   that the people who have the expertise [TS]

01:01:23   do have a knowledge base that's that's [TS]

01:01:28   useful but they also are kind of [TS]

01:01:30   gatekeepers in a way that that keep that [TS]

01:01:35   it probably has a tendency to keep good [TS]

01:01:38   ideas out more [TS]

01:01:40   I mean and a lot of the people that that [TS]

01:01:42   just that green light TV shows are [TS]

01:01:45   producers who are who are timid and [TS]

01:01:50   don't want to make a mistake and so they [TS]

01:01:52   keep making the same show over and over [TS]

01:01:54   and what they care about the TV even if [TS]

01:01:58   they don't love every program they care [TS]

01:02:00   about the process they well or that or [TS]

01:02:02   they're in the process and you know [TS]

01:02:04   it'sit's you see that the same way in [TS]

01:02:05   politics that people get a long way in [TS]

01:02:08   politics by being timid [TS]

01:02:11   like don't don't if you don't step too [TS]

01:02:16   far to the left or too far to the right [TS]

01:02:17   keep your nose clean you make the right [TS]

01:02:19   friends you know just keep your head [TS]

01:02:22   down right they do care what is your [TS]

01:02:24   advice to give you a public official but [TS]

01:02:26   you might have to get next day they [TS]

01:02:28   ultimately do care about the you know [TS]

01:02:31   the something got them engage initially [TS]

01:02:35   and then they are in the process which [TS]

01:02:38   feels kind of like the military or a [TS]

01:02:40   corporation you just you do what is done [TS]

01:02:42   and you don't rock the boat and you get [TS]

01:02:44   where you're going and I think a lot of [TS]

01:02:46   people end up producers in television [TS]

01:02:48   and they're not they don't all love it [TS]

01:02:51   or even understand it but a lot of them [TS]

01:02:53   are there because their brother was that [TS]

01:02:54   you know the brother gave him a job and [TS]

01:02:58   so so there are these are there are [TS]

01:03:01   these forms that are different from [TS]

01:03:03   pediatrics pediatric brain surgery but [TS]

01:03:06   people who occupy those jobs would like [TS]

01:03:09   you to think that it was equivalent to [TS]

01:03:11   pediatric bro [TS]

01:03:12   okay that makes sense right and it's [TS]

01:03:14   like yeah oh you don't have the [TS]

01:03:15   expertise to do this it's like well it's [TS]

01:03:18   not it expertise isn't the entire game [TS]

01:03:21   in a lot of these brackets I like what [TS]

01:03:25   you're saying about expertise and [TS]

01:03:26   experience and this is probably nested [TS]

01:03:28   right in the middle of what you're [TS]

01:03:29   saying but i would say for that to form [TS]

01:03:32   a three-legged stool you got experience [TS]

01:03:33   expertise and the third really obvious [TS]

01:03:36   one is motivation because I think a lot [TS]

01:03:38   of the reason that and then I don't [TS]

01:03:41   notice I'm not saying inspiration i'm [TS]

01:03:42   saying motivation like not only like [TS]

01:03:44   what makes you want to do this what it's [TS]

01:03:46   about you can even call it tastes and [TS]

01:03:48   some of these like what is it that makes [TS]

01:03:49   you want to be good at this and how do [TS]

01:03:51   you evaluate how well it's going and [TS]

01:03:53   what you need to do differently [TS]

01:03:54   does that happen like a hundred percent [TS]

01:03:55   intuitively because you so like in the [TS]

01:03:58   case of like you said in show business [TS]

01:03:59   maybe you were raised in a family that's [TS]

01:04:01   just in your bones you know if you like [TS]

01:04:03   Sofia Coppola like she's been around [TS]

01:04:04   that so much that you know just getting [TS]

01:04:06   a little out of this sounds really [TS]

01:04:08   dismissive I don't mean to but like I [TS]

01:04:09   think it's easy but it's certainly not [TS]

01:04:11   as is a patently difficult if you're a [TS]

01:04:13   kid in Oklahoma was only ever the [TS]

01:04:15   biggest explosion they've had to the [TS]

01:04:17   film industry is going to the cinema but [TS]

01:04:19   that motivation the thing is that's the [TS]

01:04:20   part a lot of people get wrong even with [TS]

01:04:22   the experience and even [TS]

01:04:23   it's hard to get the experience that [TS]

01:04:25   brings you the expertise if you don't [TS]

01:04:26   have the right motivation they all end [TS]

01:04:28   up popping each other up and if your [TS]

01:04:29   politics and you have the wrong [TS]

01:04:30   motivation week with a recipe for [TS]

01:04:32   disaster [TS]

01:04:33   well yeah and the but I think what I [TS]

01:04:36   think what also often happens is that [TS]

01:04:40   people with the right motivation [TS]

01:04:43   encounter a system a pre-existing system [TS]

01:04:50   that they aren't able to navigate [TS]

01:04:51   successfully and I think there are every [TS]

01:04:55   year you see people run for office that [TS]

01:04:58   seem like you know they're painted as [TS]

01:05:02   kind of crackpots but they're really [TS]

01:05:04   inspired to make a difference and they [TS]

01:05:07   just they're painted as crackpots [TS]

01:05:09   because they are able to navigate the to [TS]

01:05:12   the to navigate the game and I mean we [TS]

01:05:15   we see it in corporate life all the time [TS]

01:05:17   the people i was talking to a a good [TS]

01:05:20   friend the other day and she was time at [TS]

01:05:22   her job she's like well the CEO doesn't [TS]

01:05:25   he's not really a visionary and I said [TS]

01:05:32   how many people work at your company and [TS]

01:05:36   she said 25 and I said and you guys have [TS]

01:05:40   a CEO like when I was coming up in the [TS]

01:05:45   world a company that had 25 employees [TS]

01:05:49   maybe had a president and that President [TS]

01:05:53   was also the founder but the world we're [TS]

01:05:56   living in now your company of 25 people [TS]

01:05:59   has us as a board of directors a CEO CFO [TS]

01:06:03   a CTO and then however many [TS]

01:06:08   vice-presidents and then however many [TS]

01:06:10   managers does your erectors does your [TS]

01:06:12   business have any employees who um and [TS]

01:06:17   that the fact that that that her company [TS]

01:06:19   has a/c CEO who is 45 years old and is [TS]

01:06:26   you know like a guy running his own come [TS]

01:06:29   running a company for the first time you [TS]

01:06:32   know is like the [TS]

01:06:34   the expertise that he has on offer or [TS]

01:06:38   like the talents that he is really [TS]

01:06:40   applying a lot of those talents are just [TS]

01:06:46   like a primarily in in having the foot [TS]

01:06:51   spa to call himself a CEO huh [TS]

01:06:54   um and that's you know that is like the [TS]

01:06:56   that's a that's a a an emblem of the age [TS]

01:06:59   could it's one of the few kinds of jobs [TS]

01:07:01   that were you know this is really bad [TS]

01:07:03   know where you can be you can get really [TS]

01:07:07   far potentially really fast and still be [TS]

01:07:11   completely self-deluded you could be [TS]

01:07:13   virtually psychotic and that might [TS]

01:07:15   actually improve your chances because [TS]

01:07:16   you're one of those people who goes no I [TS]

01:07:18   refuse to fail i refused to have [TS]

01:07:19   anything except like world-changing [TS]

01:07:21   success with this and when I hear that [TS]

01:07:23   I'm like man failure is always an option [TS]

01:07:24   like a rocket always be thinking about [TS]

01:07:26   that because you make dumb decisions if [TS]

01:07:28   you think you can't fail [TS]

01:07:30   yeah right well i'm not and that but the [TS]

01:07:32   thing is that the business climate now [TS]

01:07:33   for a lot of these people is like I have [TS]

01:07:35   no interest in making this a viable [TS]

01:07:36   business i want to sell this company [TS]

01:07:38   growth hacking growth bad so so I as I [TS]

01:07:46   look around the world and and and and [TS]

01:07:48   and i definitely felt this about that [TS]

01:07:50   television show [TS]

01:07:51   it's like there are people who make a [TS]

01:07:55   lot of sense telling me that well or [TS]

01:08:00   rather asking me the with a knowing I [TS]

01:08:03   who's gonna watch your show and they [TS]

01:08:07   know the answer and the answer is nobody [TS]

01:08:10   or the answer is not enough people to [TS]

01:08:13   sell ads to make it profitable and i'm [TS]

01:08:17   sitting on the other side saying you [TS]

01:08:19   know you have this special knowledge of [TS]

01:08:21   who watches things and you're using that [TS]

01:08:26   special knowledge to say it's him that [TS]

01:08:28   you know and invariably the people say i [TS]

01:08:31   would love that show but nobody's gonna [TS]

01:08:35   watch it and so what they're saying is [TS]

01:08:38   the kind of the old classic standby like [TS]

01:08:41   it would be we could make a better world [TS]

01:08:44   if only people weren't so dumb [TS]

01:08:47   and since they are we can't make a [TS]

01:08:52   better world we can only give them what [TS]

01:08:54   they want to buy and so we're so those [TS]

01:08:58   of us who know that things could be [TS]

01:09:00   better are hamstrung by the fact that we [TS]

01:09:03   can't know we can't make things better [TS]

01:09:05   and it's the you know it's the dark side [TS]

01:09:08   of letting the market economy be the [TS]

01:09:10   Church of of your thinking huh where [TS]

01:09:15   it's like yeah we could make amazing [TS]

01:09:16   things we could make we can make [TS]

01:09:18   beautiful television we can make [TS]

01:09:19   television that was uh you know that was [TS]

01:09:22   for the ages but sadly no one would buy [TS]

01:09:26   it and so there's no point in making it [TS]

01:09:28   anyway thanks for coming [TS]

01:09:30   we're gonna go back to our you know a [TS]

01:09:32   toddler t toddlers and tiaras and you [TS]

01:09:37   see the same thing also in city [TS]

01:09:39   government except people aren't quite so [TS]

01:09:41   Craven but you do you know you go into [TS]

01:09:44   city government you say hey there [TS]

01:09:45   there's a way to do this we could you [TS]

01:09:46   know we can build affordable housing for [TS]

01:09:49   middle-class families and people go we [TS]

01:09:51   could but not only we could have all I [TS]

01:09:54   would love to be able to do that but [TS]

01:09:56   what is that ok that's the interesting [TS]

01:09:57   thing about what you're saying some ways [TS]

01:09:59   yeah I want that too [TS]

01:10:01   I want exactly what you want but what my [TS]

01:10:03   job is to sit here and tell you that the [TS]

01:10:05   realities don't allow it and so thanks [TS]

01:10:10   for coming sorry that we couldn't make a [TS]

01:10:13   better world for you know if you have [TS]

01:10:17   another idea [TS]

01:10:18   that's dumber be sure to call us stopped [TS]

01:10:21   because we really like where you're [TS]

01:10:22   coming from [TS]

01:10:24   uh-huh and that you know and ultimately [TS]

01:10:26   that is that it is an argument of them [TS]

01:10:30   of the market [TS]

01:10:32   um and you and all the examples where [TS]

01:10:36   you say well somebody made this thing [TS]

01:10:37   that nobody thought you know that nobody [TS]

01:10:40   thought anybody wanted and that [TS]

01:10:42   everybody wanted it and people go yeah [TS]

01:10:45   but not that doesn't happen very often [TS]

01:10:48   and that guy was something like it [TS]

01:10:51   that's not good for shareholders it's [TS]

01:10:53   not good for shareholders you know like [TS]

01:10:55   every once in awhile sure there's a [TS]

01:10:56   there's a revolution and everybody's [TS]

01:10:58   thinking every once in a while the [TS]

01:11:00   strokes come along and [TS]

01:11:01   sound just like Iggy and the Stooges and [TS]

01:11:03   nobody knew that that's what they wanted [TS]

01:11:04   right then [TS]

01:11:06   nobody in nobody in the year 2000 said [TS]

01:11:09   you know what I would like a young cute [TS]

01:11:12   less abrasive Iggy and the Stooges that [TS]

01:11:15   sounds kind of like the velvet [TS]

01:11:16   underground to it could you make that [TS]

01:11:18   and then these kids made it and for a [TS]

01:11:21   year all anybody want to listen to is [TS]

01:11:23   that first strokes record and you go wow [TS]

01:11:27   that was a thing that i mean i was i was [TS]

01:11:29   in the process of making a record during [TS]

01:11:31   those same months and never occurred to [TS]

01:11:36   me to make a you know or two to make a [TS]

01:11:40   record that sounded exactly like Joy [TS]

01:11:42   Division you can't you can't I mean you [TS]

01:11:44   guys remember that you can never [TS]

01:11:46   replicate the timing and circumstances [TS]

01:11:48   that my friend friend night junkie when [TS]

01:11:51   I did a panel itself myself West few [TS]

01:11:53   years ago and the fries were using is [TS]

01:11:54   like I am and I you know it's not a [TS]

01:11:58   question of like how you're going to be [TS]

01:11:59   as our glass says is how you're going to [TS]

01:12:01   be Ted Koppel like how are you going to [TS]

01:12:02   be who you are like you can't replicate [TS]

01:12:05   the the so again so obvious but you [TS]

01:12:08   can't replicate the circumstances and [TS]

01:12:10   the timing it was never a sure bet that [TS]

01:12:12   anything was ever gonna happen ever [TS]

01:12:14   really right if you're really realistic [TS]

01:12:15   about it what you want you don't want to [TS]

01:12:17   replicate what somebody didn't go i'm [TS]

01:12:18   gonna be the X of Y well no I mean to [TS]

01:12:21   become the XY you have to have the same [TS]

01:12:24   kind of the the similarities in the [TS]

01:12:26   spirit week I think we've talked about [TS]

01:12:28   this a million times but you don't want [TS]

01:12:29   to go replicate steve jobs by like you [TS]

01:12:31   know being mean to people like that's [TS]

01:12:33   not on the face of it gonna be super [TS]

01:12:35   useful [TS]

01:12:35   that's the wrong note to take from that [TS]

01:12:37   career yeah well and that's the you're [TS]

01:12:39   absolutely right to say that nothing is [TS]

01:12:42   ever inevitable because if it if it were [TS]

01:12:44   everybody would've done it everybody [TS]

01:12:46   would have done it fantastically [TS]

01:12:47   time-travel paradox via the music [TS]

01:12:49   business is full of people trying to put [TS]

01:12:52   the you know put the formula to work who [TS]

01:12:55   and say okay here comes the next band [TS]

01:12:58   that you are going to love everybody and [TS]

01:13:00   then the next Bank of loans like nobody [TS]

01:13:03   gives a fuck yeah but there are put it [TS]

01:13:06   but but i cannot succumb to the idea [TS]

01:13:10   that though that the the [TS]

01:13:14   Leigh intellectual can't ever engage [TS]

01:13:16   with the world in any way other than [TS]

01:13:18   just writing opinion pieces for the [TS]

01:13:21   local newspaper you know like they're [TS]

01:13:23   that the Oracle just just just donating [TS]

01:13:26   and just leaving positive comments that [TS]

01:13:28   your your role in this is to participate [TS]

01:13:30   in the machine that we've all agreed [TS]

01:13:32   can't be changed like like we need to we [TS]

01:13:37   need we are so siloed and so much a [TS]

01:13:41   culture of the cult of expertise and [TS]

01:13:45   some of those things absolutely require [TS]

01:13:49   expertise like pediatric brain surgery [TS]

01:13:51   and even i would argue referring to ben [TS]

01:13:54   Carson are you is that is that an [TS]

01:13:58   unintentional reference or do you know [TS]

01:13:59   what you're saying they're uh what how [TS]

01:14:01   is that what I'm just trying to function [TS]

01:14:03   say that no I i I'm holding this is not [TS]

01:14:05   relevant but I i went to the wikipedia [TS]

01:14:08   page for Republican presidential [TS]

01:14:09   candidates and at the current rate the [TS]

01:14:11   rate of the of sunday today's Monday as [TS]

01:14:14   we record this and tuesday you have one [TS]

01:14:17   one person announce me third we have [TS]

01:14:19   another announcement forth and the third [TS]

01:14:22   is expected to announce on on May fifth [TS]

01:14:24   and Carson the guy from a third author [TS]

01:14:28   and former director of pediatric [TS]

01:14:30   neurosurgery for Johns Hopkins is that [TS]

01:14:35   there is he holds some very strange view [TS]

01:14:38   spend Carson's about how the world the [TS]

01:14:40   world shakes out but he is an expert [TS]

01:14:43   pediatric brain surgeon for society did [TS]

01:14:46   you really I don't know what I was an [TS]

01:14:47   intentional [TS]

01:14:48   it's a it's quite all right there are [TS]

01:14:50   you know I'm looking for role models [TS]

01:14:52   everywhere million stories in The Naked [TS]

01:14:53   City yeah the guy that really knows how [TS]

01:14:56   to adjust the the boat the Quadrajet [TS]

01:15:01   carburetor the Rochester Quadrajet [TS]

01:15:03   carburetor on my truck has a kind of [TS]

01:15:08   expertise that is akin to restoring a [TS]

01:15:12   Stradivarius but there are lots of other [TS]

01:15:18   jobs and I really do feel like CEO of a [TS]

01:15:21   25-person company is one of those jobs [TS]

01:15:23   that almost anybody could do [TS]

01:15:27   and I know that that it you know i know [TS]

01:15:30   that that is that's going to get that [TS]

01:15:33   some people mad but a specially growth [TS]

01:15:36   hackers just those people are wrong but [TS]

01:15:38   you know like every single friend i have [TS]

01:15:40   could be the CEO of a 25-person company [TS]

01:15:43   every single one of them because you [TS]

01:15:47   takes awhile to figure out how what the [TS]

01:15:49   company makes and then it takes awhile [TS]

01:15:52   to figure out where the company sits in [TS]

01:15:54   the in the landscape and then you need [TS]

01:15:57   to start figuring out how the company [TS]

01:15:59   can do better and those yeah and and [TS]

01:16:03   that learning process what is the [TS]

01:16:05   company make where does the company sit [TS]

01:16:07   that stuff should not be that difficult [TS]

01:16:09   for a firm or normally intelligent [TS]

01:16:12   person to figure out and then we're how [TS]

01:16:15   does this company get better and if this [TS]

01:16:18   company needs to grow to get better then [TS]

01:16:21   that's one direction and if this company [TS]

01:16:24   does not need to grow but just needs to [TS]

01:16:26   get better that's another solution but [TS]

01:16:31   any reasonably intelligent person can [TS]

01:16:33   address that step set of circumstances [TS]

01:16:36   and you know and move forward in an [TS]

01:16:41   interesting way anybody that I know to [TS]

01:16:44   be the CEO of a of a 40,000 person [TS]

01:16:47   company at that point you are you have [TS]

01:16:51   to be a you have to be really good at [TS]

01:16:53   and flowcharts I mean you know yet you [TS]

01:16:57   don't have so many complementary skills [TS]

01:17:00   that are always evolving and you have [TS]

01:17:02   and the primarily are the primary one [TS]

01:17:05   would be had know how to hire good [TS]

01:17:07   people who write the to manage your [TS]

01:17:10   divisions but 25 people working on a on [TS]

01:17:13   a project if you are good if you're a [TS]

01:17:16   good person and not a not a megalomaniac [TS]

01:17:18   you should be able to handle that [TS]

01:17:21   that project it's not it's not rocket [TS]

01:17:24   science [TS]

01:17:25   what about the part you said something [TS]

01:17:26   earlier about that feeling of like we're [TS]

01:17:29   getting up in the morning thing of like [TS]

01:17:30   climbing the mountain and hoping there's [TS]

01:17:32   something on the ridge is there [TS]

01:17:33   something to be said for the people who [TS]

01:17:34   are able to motivate people sight unseen [TS]

01:17:36   on some kind of a goal that that seems [TS]

01:17:39   ridiculous or non-existent [TS]

01:17:40   that's not just delusional right how do [TS]

01:17:43   you mean motivate people so if you start [TS]

01:17:46   up let's say let's say you're gonna [TS]

01:17:47   start up in boy i'm so glad we're [TS]

01:17:49   finally talking about startups but if [TS]

01:17:51   let's say you're at a growing company [TS]

01:17:52   let's just say a small growing company a [TS]

01:17:53   small growing company maybe save 25 [TS]

01:17:55   people may be in the bay area got [TS]

01:17:58   everybody's been producing something [TS]

01:17:59   sorry I said anything I already hate [TS]

01:18:00   this topic [TS]

01:18:02   no but I mean you're there is it seems [TS]

01:18:03   like there's something to be said for [TS]

01:18:04   like you know in addition to all the [TS]

01:18:06   kind of the the change in the stress and [TS]

01:18:08   dealing with the funding and all that [TS]

01:18:10   kind of stuff that ability to maintain [TS]

01:18:12   the confidence of people who could very [TS]

01:18:14   easily get a job anywhere else it seems [TS]

01:18:16   like that would take a certain I could [TS]

01:18:17   see that taking a special kind of skill [TS]

01:18:19   even with up to 25 people because you [TS]

01:18:21   know you're kind of showing your own [TS]

01:18:22   credibility the company's credibility [TS]

01:18:24   everything's changing all the time you [TS]

01:18:25   know what I mean maybe I watch too much [TS]

01:18:26   silicon valley but but that seems like [TS]

01:18:28   that seems like like that is kind of a [TS]

01:18:30   special thing to be able to do you have [TS]

01:18:32   to have a high level of as we sandy you [TS]

01:18:34   know Constitution charisma be able to [TS]

01:18:36   pull that off even if you're young [TS]

01:18:37   my sense is that that now that the [TS]

01:18:41   business climate it does require those [TS]

01:18:44   things because the because its a game [TS]

01:18:47   it's all about you know grow fast fill a [TS]

01:18:52   niche niche keep nimble who you know [TS]

01:18:56   sell hi everybody gets rich everyone is [TS]

01:18:59   motivated in that business by the [TS]

01:19:01   possibility the very real possibility [TS]

01:19:03   that 27 years old they're gonna be like [TS]

01:19:06   astoundingly rich all of a sudden one [TS]

01:19:10   day and that's so different from from [TS]

01:19:14   actual business like you when you think [TS]

01:19:16   about limes a really good point from [TS]

01:19:18   home from from being just like for [TS]

01:19:20   example if you've got a business that [TS]

01:19:22   maybe public but has been like operated [TS]

01:19:24   by a family like just that disk that [TS]

01:19:26   feeling of like how do I make sure I not [TS]

01:19:28   screw up Mike what my what my mother and [TS]

01:19:30   my father and my grandparents like what [TS]

01:19:33   they do I mean that constant feeling of [TS]

01:19:34   like they need something great now it's [TS]

01:19:36   up to me to screw it up when you think [TS]

01:19:37   about I mean there are people in our [TS]

01:19:39   world now who are practicing a different [TS]

01:19:42   kind of business right the guys that [TS]

01:19:44   start a company that makes bicycles and [TS]

01:19:47   they're making they've improved their [TS]

01:19:49   design and they're making a better [TS]

01:19:50   bicycle and they're not thinking i'm [TS]

01:19:52   gonna sell this bicycle company [TS]

01:19:54   nice win who i'm not i'm gonna get a [TS]

01:19:56   gonna make a million dollars they are [TS]

01:19:58   legitimately like reflecting on the [TS]

01:20:01   world as it is insane i'm gonna go back [TS]

01:20:03   to doing something like manufacturing [TS]

01:20:05   bicycles and that's going to be my peace [TS]

01:20:07   of mind and I'm gonna have a quality of [TS]

01:20:10   life and maybe there's a quality [TS]

01:20:11   differentiator in the bikes new charge [TS]

01:20:13   more [TS]

01:20:13   Yeah right there generating a [TS]

01:20:15   sustainable business based on something [TS]

01:20:17   that you care a lot about are good at [TS]

01:20:18   and that is though that is the [TS]

01:20:21   old-fashioned way of looking at business [TS]

01:20:23   where you're not you know where the [TS]

01:20:25   product is the entire story and [TS]

01:20:29   everything else in your business that is [TS]

01:20:31   designed to ward the product and the end [TS]

01:20:35   and you know efficiencies are there eee [TS]

01:20:39   eee try and make it profitable so that [TS]

01:20:41   everybody can make a living wage but the [TS]

01:20:44   product tells the story and it [TS]

01:20:46   increasingly this other style of [TS]

01:20:48   business where it's like wow the product [TS]

01:20:50   sure I mean wewe haven't even really [TS]

01:20:52   decided what the product is but we have [TS]

01:20:55   only knows where growth hacking it you [TS]

01:20:57   know but we have seven different layers [TS]

01:20:59   of like sea level management and one of [TS]

01:21:04   these day and already we're getting [TS]

01:21:05   looked at by these people who are [TS]

01:21:07   thinking about you know flushing us with [TS]

01:21:10   cash and you know maybe we'll make an [TS]

01:21:12   app that makes a bong when it turns off [TS]

01:21:15   maybe we'll make a a speaker that you [TS]

01:21:18   can suction cup to your chest like there [TS]

01:21:20   are a lot of things we could be building [TS]

01:21:22   we haven't quite figured that out and [TS]

01:21:24   that style of business is you know it's [TS]

01:21:28   like Bitcoin farming it's it's something [TS]

01:21:32   that maybe is going to make you rich and [TS]

01:21:35   it it takes up a lot of your day and [TS]

01:21:37   like you say it requires that you be [TS]

01:21:39   charismatic and that you convince people [TS]

01:21:41   but it isn't about really like making [TS]

01:21:45   anything that helps anybody or making [TS]

01:21:48   anything at all in some cases that's an [TS]

01:21:49   interesting edge case though because [TS]

01:21:51   talking about motivation in some ways [TS]

01:21:53   though even though the motivation is to [TS]

01:21:54   me you know insane or or you know nearly [TS]

01:21:59   magical nom f it is one thing most the [TS]

01:22:02   players an industry to share motivation [TS]

01:22:04   which is like I want all the money as [TS]

01:22:06   fast as possible i want all the money as [TS]

01:22:08   well [TS]

01:22:08   and it's the vc's that are getting you [TS]

01:22:10   know nine ninety percent failure rates [TS]

01:22:12   because of the you know ten percent that [TS]

01:22:14   will pay off like they know they're not [TS]

01:22:17   doing that because they like you they [TS]

01:22:18   are doing that because they think [TS]

01:22:19   they're going to make a ton of money [TS]

01:22:20   from you right and that is why like [TS]

01:22:23   libertarianism is the political a like [TS]

01:22:27   realm of choice for a lot of those [TS]

01:22:29   people because they don't you know [TS]

01:22:31   because when they do hit the numbers [TS]

01:22:32   when the money does come pouring in [TS]

01:22:35   they really do believe that they made it [TS]

01:22:37   out of thin air and that they don't know [TS]

01:22:41   anybody that they didn't you know that [TS]

01:22:43   they're not part of a community that [TS]

01:22:45   they're part of it [TS]

01:22:46   this genius level tier of of of Bitcoin [TS]

01:22:51   farmers and and so you know I'm where [TS]

01:22:55   we're seeing it in Seattle like Jeff [TS]

01:22:57   Bezos really does believe that I guess [TS]

01:23:02   the streets were already there when he [TS]

01:23:04   got here so grandfathered in [TS]

01:23:06   yeah so he doesn't really have a sense [TS]

01:23:08   of how they got put there or how they [TS]

01:23:09   are maintained but he doesn't care like [TS]

01:23:13   the money he's making is because he was [TS]

01:23:14   because he's a genius [TS]

01:23:17   Cassie question related to that as far [TS]

01:23:19   as how the campaign is going on the [TS]

01:23:22   people when you talk to people and I'm [TS]

01:23:25   have to imagine there are some people [TS]

01:23:26   who are like this is not plausible you [TS]

01:23:28   don't have the experience whatever like [TS]

01:23:30   who the people you find most interesting [TS]

01:23:31   in terms of believing in what you're [TS]

01:23:33   doing [TS]

01:23:33   apart from just the the relief of having [TS]

01:23:35   somebody go i think that's that's doable [TS]

01:23:36   and that's a good idea and i would [TS]

01:23:38   support that [TS]

01:23:39   who do you think of the most interesting [TS]

01:23:40   or surprising people lining up to go [TS]

01:23:42   yeah this is a terrific idea we've got [TS]

01:23:44   to do this [TS]

01:23:44   what's really cool is that you know that [TS]

01:23:47   initial sense of like well what the [TS]

01:23:50   guitar player wants to be on City [TS]

01:23:51   Council he doesn't have the experience [TS]

01:23:53   necessary we're the weird rock candidate [TS]

01:23:55   yeah that guy [TS]

01:23:57   it was doing a show at the rendezvous [TS]

01:23:58   last year wants to be off on the City [TS]

01:24:01   Council he doesn't have the experience [TS]

01:24:02   and invariably when I sit with one of [TS]

01:24:05   those people and talk to them for a very [TS]

01:24:07   short amount of time they're like oh you [TS]

01:24:09   are absolutely a great candidate for [TS]

01:24:12   this job and you you can't you can [TS]

01:24:14   absolutely do this and then they leaned [TS]

01:24:17   in and they go but here's what you need [TS]

01:24:18   to know and then they start telling me a [TS]

01:24:21   similar thing to the TV producer like [TS]

01:24:24   you really need to dumb this down you [TS]

01:24:27   hear the the words they use are too big [TS]

01:24:29   to spend a lot of time a really like the [TS]

01:24:33   the word that i keep hearing his I da [TS]

01:24:35   ting you keep I da ting with these [TS]

01:24:40   thoughts storms and you really need to [TS]

01:24:42   just have the three takeaways the bullet [TS]

01:24:45   points the the quick and dirty and I'm [TS]

01:24:51   wreck and and I've been fighting it for [TS]

01:24:53   weeks [TS]

01:24:54   like I don't think in bullet points and [TS]

01:24:56   talking points I don't want to do it I'd [TS]

01:24:58   I resistant and lately I've been hearing [TS]

01:25:01   more new because i'm meeting a lot of [TS]

01:25:03   people you know I've been i spent all [TS]

01:25:04   last week calling cold-calling lawyers [TS]

01:25:07   like powerful lawyers in town saying hi [TS]

01:25:10   I'm John rock I'm running for City [TS]

01:25:11   Council you're a big-shot lawyer a [TS]

01:25:13   big-shot developer and I need to talk to [TS]

01:25:15   you on the phone I need you to have [TS]

01:25:18   heard my voice I need you to know my [TS]

01:25:20   name and I need to hear from you what [TS]

01:25:22   you think the problems facing the [TS]

01:25:24   bigshot lawyers and developers are in [TS]

01:25:26   town so that I don't go into this [TS]

01:25:29   gladiator contest unarmed and you know [TS]

01:25:35   and they live it and they talk to me for [TS]

01:25:37   a little while they're like oh you you [TS]

01:25:39   are completely viable you know their [TS]

01:25:40   initial responses like who [TS]

01:25:42   what you're the artist and then we [TS]

01:25:47   talked for a while and they're like all [TS]

01:25:48   right well and then so then they get [TS]

01:25:50   their voices get softer and they leaned [TS]

01:25:52   in and they say listen you need that you [TS]

01:25:54   need the bullet points like you can you [TS]

01:25:55   can you can talk id8 all you want in in [TS]

01:25:58   between but you need to start every [TS]

01:25:59   conversation with your three bullet [TS]

01:26:01   points and every conversation with it [TS]

01:26:02   because that's all anybody's going to [TS]

01:26:04   remember [TS]

01:26:04   Wow and somebody said to me the other [TS]

01:26:06   day they were like it's like the chorus [TS]

01:26:07   of a song can you get this through your [TS]

01:26:09   head [TS]

01:26:09   nobody remembers the verse everybody [TS]

01:26:12   sings the chorus and I'm like the [TS]

01:26:14   fucking chorus of the song good example [TS]

01:26:18   let's see and ironically enough it is a [TS]

01:26:20   perfect example of exactly what they're [TS]

01:26:22   advising them take something that is [TS]

01:26:24   really really difficult to understand [TS]

01:26:26   let alone do and turn into something [TS]

01:26:28   anybody kid especially somebody who's a [TS]

01:26:29   writer can instantly understand [TS]

01:26:31   instantly understand it and repeat over [TS]

01:26:32   and over and then when somebody's on the [TS]

01:26:34   bus and they're like I'm voting for John [TS]

01:26:36   Roderick and the person next time goes [TS]

01:26:37   what's he stand for [TS]

01:26:38   they go ooh child isn't going to get any [TS]

01:26:42   easier you know like they sing the [TS]

01:26:44   chorus and then the person sitting next [TS]

01:26:47   to him on the bus that's never gonna [TS]

01:26:48   think about it again when the ballot [TS]

01:26:51   comes they're like oh that's right that [TS]

01:26:52   guy that sings ooh child although for [TS]

01:26:55   him and so that part of the thing is is [TS]

01:26:59   blowing my mind [TS]

01:27:00   but-but-but-but did describing that way [TS]

01:27:04   make it seem more palatable it still is [TS]

01:27:08   against my nature even somebody even as [TS]

01:27:11   someone who has written a book of tweets [TS]

01:27:13   i love to communicate in a hundred and [TS]

01:27:17   forty characters but when somebody says [TS]

01:27:19   what's your solution to the housing [TS]

01:27:20   problem huh to give them a hundred and [TS]

01:27:23   forty character response is an athlete [TS]

01:27:26   to me right i want to talk about how the [TS]

01:27:29   housing problem is too complicated to [TS]

01:27:30   solve with the tweet but and they are [TS]

01:27:34   receptive to hearing that but they want [TS]

01:27:36   to hear the tweet also yeah and so that [TS]

01:27:40   has been you know I've been talking to a [TS]

01:27:42   lot of experts and everybody is you know [TS]

01:27:46   there's they're the people that i'm [TS]

01:27:48   talking to that were the most dubious [TS]

01:27:51   about it are starting to realize like oh [TS]

01:27:56   this is possible and make obviously i'm [TS]

01:27:58   reading and learning by leaps and bounds [TS]

01:28:00   and so I do it every week encounter a [TS]

01:28:06   kind of moment where it's like I am [TS]

01:28:08   learning and up an entirely new [TS]

01:28:09   profession and also the language of it [TS]

01:28:13   so it's like I'm it's like i'm studying [TS]

01:28:16   engineering and I'm also learning all [TS]

01:28:18   day there was very well put right [TS]

01:28:20   because they're because my engine [TS]

01:28:23   in schools in France yeah and lakes and [TS]

01:28:28   and yet [TS]

01:28:29   like I I'm enjoying every step of that [TS]

01:28:32   process and there are lots of places [TS]

01:28:35   along the way where where I realized [TS]

01:28:38   that the culture in seattle politics [TS]

01:28:41   especially is traditionally very [TS]

01:28:44   incremental there's a lot of lip service [TS]

01:28:47   liberalism where people are just like [TS]

01:28:50   course i'm a liberal look at this I [TS]

01:28:52   voted for this I voted for that it's [TS]

01:28:54   like right none of those were [TS]

01:28:55   imaginative you never stuck your neck [TS]

01:28:57   out no one ever took a risk it's just [TS]

01:29:00   you're just plodding along do it's [TS]

01:29:02   interesting it's almost like being a [TS]

01:29:03   YouTube fan we go I've always been a [TS]

01:29:05   huge fan i remember liking them a lot [TS]

01:29:07   and never occurred to me to not be a [TS]

01:29:09   youtube fan or to really question you [TS]

01:29:11   know what I mean when I got back on [TS]

01:29:12   youtube but it's like you start to think [TS]

01:29:13   of yourself as a long time before I want [TS]

01:29:15   i'm still I think i would personally [TS]

01:29:17   like the guys in rem but i don't know [TS]

01:29:19   that many of their music like I used to [TS]

01:29:20   be like well the date is the date [TS]

01:29:22   Matthew story right now that's at some [TS]

01:29:25   points a long long time ago [TS]

01:29:28   gather round children the first time you [TS]

01:29:30   heard the first time people heard a Dave [TS]

01:29:33   Matthews song they're like huh that's an [TS]

01:29:35   interesting vocal style and that's an [TS]

01:29:38   interesting song or two and he built a a [TS]

01:29:43   massive cultural movement by not ever [TS]

01:29:47   changing that even a little bit who [TS]

01:29:51   write he never went he never picked up [TS]

01:29:53   an electric guitar he never made a scar [TS]

01:29:56   record he never he never changed his [TS]

01:29:59   name and put on a and animated and grew [TS]

01:30:02   a soul patch and made a grunge album [TS]

01:30:04   that was he never forgot about that [TS]

01:30:09   you know what I mean like a like Taylor [TS]

01:30:11   Swift will use to be a country star [TS]

01:30:13   she's not anymore nobody even remembers [TS]

01:30:14   that she was really limited but but a [TS]

01:30:18   Dave Matthews just keeps on keeping on [TS]

01:30:21   and i don't know how many records he's [TS]

01:30:23   made and I don't know if you could take [TS]

01:30:25   if you took a song off the latest one [TS]

01:30:26   and it's off the first one and put them [TS]

01:30:28   back to back i think they would sound [TS]

01:30:30   like they belong in the same not only in [TS]

01:30:33   the same candidate on the same album [TS]

01:30:35   to your point though and I don't know [TS]

01:30:37   anything about Dave Matthews I don't [TS]

01:30:38   mean to sound like I'm disparaging it i [TS]

01:30:39   just know he's got that big file [TS]

01:30:41   unemployment goes yeah but-but-but in [TS]

01:30:43   your analogy I think you're onto this [TS]

01:30:45   does something interesting which is you [TS]

01:30:47   say like well I i never really paused to [TS]

01:30:51   the one who like I was saying I really [TS]

01:30:53   paused at any point to consider how much [TS]

01:30:56   I really am still a fan but whatever of [TS]

01:31:00   old stuff for the new stuff but I also [TS]

01:31:02   that really that ultimately means that i [TS]

01:31:04   have not fully processed the new [TS]

01:31:06   information in order to realize that I'm [TS]

01:31:07   actually way more into it or that i'm [TS]

01:31:09   actually i may be thinking i should be [TS]

01:31:11   able to listen to someone else because [TS]

01:31:12   it's very comfortable very comfortable [TS]

01:31:14   to say like oh this is I have every [TS]

01:31:16   confidence that I'm a sloan family I [TS]

01:31:17   haven't listened to that many new Sloan [TS]

01:31:20   albums and been super into them since [TS]

01:31:22   like 2001 yeah it's honestly I'm not [TS]

01:31:25   again there's always that like cheap [TS]

01:31:26   trick they've got a great song on every [TS]

01:31:27   record but I hadn't been bananas over a [TS]

01:31:30   new album of theirs in a long time and [TS]

01:31:31   even when I kinda IE i was still kinda [TS]

01:31:33   like I'm really into Sloan so i must [TS]

01:31:35   love this record even if I didn't and [TS]

01:31:37   p.m. at at that is exactly what happens [TS]

01:31:39   to people in their political process [TS]

01:31:41   they're like this is how it works [TS]

01:31:43   this is the tempo at which it moves [TS]

01:31:45   these are the people to whom we entrust [TS]

01:31:47   this job and so change cannot possibly [TS]

01:31:52   come any faster than this [TS]

01:31:54   obviously these projects take years and [TS]

01:31:56   years of contentious you know budget [TS]

01:31:59   disagreements to even begin and and we [TS]

01:32:03   just sort of settle into this like well [TS]

01:32:05   this is I mean I've been a a business [TS]

01:32:08   loan fan for years and I'm just I guess [TS]

01:32:10   I'm still Sloan fan like the that [TS]

01:32:11   there's no the the energy that is [TS]

01:32:16   required of you as a fan or as a citizen [TS]

01:32:19   just sort of herbs and you just you just [TS]

01:32:23   coast and then every once in a while [TS]

01:32:24   something comes along and forces you to [TS]

01:32:26   to get excited or really makes [TS]

01:32:31   everything different all of a sudden [TS]

01:32:32   right and you know either make that [TS]

01:32:34   transition or you don't [TS]

01:32:36   but also with the width and some private [TS]

01:32:38   stating the obvious but also with with [TS]

01:32:39   the political part of what you're [TS]

01:32:40   describing just to put a slightly finer [TS]

01:32:43   point on it it is you're talking about [TS]

01:32:45   the difference between how you like to [TS]

01:32:47   think about yours [TS]

01:32:48   self versus how you think people should [TS]

01:32:51   cover which are so different it's one [TS]

01:32:53   thing to go you know I I don't know I've [TS]

01:32:57   always considered myself in rem families [TS]

01:32:59   to buy the shirts like that doesn't [TS]

01:33:00   really have like a huge impact but it's [TS]

01:33:02   just there's something that's so [TS]

01:33:03   comforting about night I'm the sort of [TS]

01:33:04   person I'm a Dave Matthews sort of [TS]

01:33:06   person I'm not a metallica sort of [TS]

01:33:08   person or whatever and i think but but [TS]

01:33:11   you know I'm saying like it isn't like [TS]

01:33:13   you're really pausing to think about on [TS]

01:33:15   the one hand like do I really like their [TS]

01:33:16   new stuff but maybe maybe further to the [TS]

01:33:19   point like do I really like their old [TS]

01:33:21   stuff that much still is that okay like [TS]

01:33:24   do you really want the Pixies to reunite [TS]

01:33:26   because the Pixies today are going to [TS]

01:33:28   make MIT Pixies are going to make music [TS]

01:33:29   that's very different probably and if [TS]

01:33:32   it's not then is that leap forward for [TS]

01:33:33   them when Rush started changing i got [TS]

01:33:35   really pissed when they are subdivisions [TS]

01:33:36   I was like this is not what rush it [TS]

01:33:38   sound like roll the bones and so you [TS]

01:33:41   become that guy like me in rem like who [TS]

01:33:43   really liked everything to live for the [TS]

01:33:44   letters pageant you know and that's what [TS]

01:33:46   and I think with you know with [TS]

01:33:48   government like there's a there's a real [TS]

01:33:50   tendency for people to say of course I [TS]

01:33:53   believe that you know of course I [TS]

01:33:58   believe x of course I believe that that [TS]

01:34:01   we should house the homeless or of [TS]

01:34:02   course I believe that we should regulate [TS]

01:34:05   the banks or of course I believe you [TS]

01:34:08   know of course but it's very hard to do [TS]

01:34:11   those things got that of course has so [TS]

01:34:14   much wrapped up in if you really think [TS]

01:34:15   about it yeah right it's really it's [TS]

01:34:17   really powerful in a not very good way [TS]

01:34:19   of course of course i'd love to change [TS]

01:34:21   like he said of course i'd love to [TS]

01:34:23   change this industry right call me back [TS]

01:34:25   if you've ever got something better for [TS]

01:34:26   a TV show exactly right of is not of [TS]

01:34:29   course it's not of course enough that [TS]

01:34:30   i'm actually going to invest in it its [TS]

01:34:32   of course enough that agrees with my [TS]

01:34:33   general compartment about life right of [TS]

01:34:35   course black lives matter but boy you [TS]

01:34:39   know well what what are they really [TS]

01:34:41   asking John all lives matter a right and [TS]

01:34:45   it's it's just like that of course [TS]

01:34:47   allows people to say of course i'm a [TS]

01:34:50   liberal or of course I'm a a politically [TS]

01:34:52   active or of course it makes you sound [TS]

01:34:55   very same [TS]

01:34:57   main reason and and realistic that's [TS]

01:35:02   right really sound realistic as you're [TS]

01:35:04   not going well you know because again we [TS]

01:35:07   were you always almost always talking [TS]

01:35:08   about your talk about a shifter and [TS]

01:35:09   attention or you're talking about a [TS]

01:35:10   change in not priorities but sacrifice [TS]

01:35:13   like what are we willing to spend on [TS]

01:35:14   this in order to get this thing made [TS]

01:35:17   what do we not spend money and time on [TS]

01:35:18   which is a huge difference between like [TS]

01:35:20   an ideal world we'd all get to live in [TS]

01:35:23   cosplay Pinocchio or whatever like you [TS]

01:35:24   come up with these these bananas things [TS]

01:35:26   and these and and all the saner heads [TS]

01:35:28   all the people who are like well now [TS]

01:35:30   hold on just a second there's a whole [TS]

01:35:32   you know there's a budgeting process and [TS]

01:35:34   you know I know this is going to be too [TS]

01:35:37   disruptive you know we can't even if [TS]

01:35:42   there are aliens living under the Arctic [TS]

01:35:46   Ocean and they are controlling our [TS]

01:35:48   one-world government can't tell [TS]

01:35:51   everybody about it we have to go slow [TS]

01:35:54   it would freak people out and even if [TS]

01:35:57   that's maybe a bad example as a gift was [TS]

01:36:00   speaking as a canada is it is it haha i [TS]

01:36:04   sound very realistic to me but the you [TS]

01:36:08   know that that idea not the idea but the [TS]

01:36:11   pose of of course i agree with you but I [TS]

01:36:16   am scene and we need to go slowly like [TS]

01:36:20   you're talking like you're talking to a [TS]

01:36:20   child and that is so much of what gets [TS]

01:36:23   done so much of the politics at the [TS]

01:36:26   local level at the at the national level [TS]

01:36:28   is is done in that in that voice of like [TS]

01:36:33   it would it's gonna be like to really [TS]

01:36:36   reform the banks is going to be too hard [TS]

01:36:42   it just is so of course i want to call [TS]

01:36:46   me back when you have a dumber idea for [TS]

01:36:49   a television show and he gotta take your [TS]

01:36:54   time [TS]

01:36:55   sometimes sometimes you have to say no [TS]

01:37:00   fuck you like it's and at you know [TS]

01:37:05   follow me to the kid c and the and the [TS]

01:37:07   excitement of me of running for office [TS]

01:37:09   right now is that [TS]

01:37:10   it feels it feels like this is that the [TS]

01:37:13   time in so many levels to just say no no [TS]

01:37:17   I mean I i said this the other day [TS]

01:37:19   leaving my house though the market has [TS]

01:37:24   informed me that my house which was 10 [TS]

01:37:29   years ago worth 200 thousand dollars and [TS]

01:37:32   then seven years ago was worth four [TS]

01:37:34   hundred thousand dollars and then five [TS]

01:37:37   years ago was worth 200 thousand dollars [TS]

01:37:39   again and now it's worth four hundred [TS]

01:37:42   thousand dollars again and you're [TS]

01:37:44   telling me that that is like the [TS]

01:37:46   sensible a like the market is the [TS]

01:37:50   adjudicator a lot obviously you've been [TS]

01:37:52   doing something right haha you've added [TS]

01:37:55   that value just by being there there I [TS]

01:37:57   wasn't really smart and that and the [TS]

01:37:59   house with didn't have any value and [TS]

01:38:00   then add a lot of don't get a while [TS]

01:38:02   there around 2008 you're really fucking [TS]

01:38:04   stupid but now you've got a wire get [TS]

01:38:06   John you are you gotta be super smart [TS]

01:38:08   now and it's basically like I'm like [TS]

01:38:10   playing roulette and that is what but [TS]

01:38:14   none of us and we all go like that's [TS]

01:38:15   crazy but what can you do about it [TS]

01:38:19   it's the market it's that it is the [TS]

01:38:22   churches are one true God and the market [TS]

01:38:25   just tells us and then we end the market [TS]

01:38:27   isn't something that's not one guy [TS]

01:38:29   it's it's the whole it's everybody and [TS]

01:38:32   we just all decide and the feeling is [TS]

01:38:35   that you're not naive you're you you're [TS]

01:38:37   you're not naive enough to I don't think [TS]

01:38:42   your it would take a lot of naivete to [TS]

01:38:45   go I'm gonna come in and shake [TS]

01:38:46   everything up and it'll be really easy [TS]

01:38:47   and then how do you know what's your [TS]

01:38:49   internal barometer for knowing which [TS]

01:38:51   furniture can still be moved around [TS]

01:38:52   which which shouldn't be tampered with [TS]

01:38:54   and how do you decide between five [TS]

01:38:56   things that could change potentially [TS]

01:38:58   that's a big question pick whatever part [TS]

01:38:59   you want but you know it seems like to [TS]

01:39:00   go into this you don't be a dummy [TS]

01:39:02   you don't just going to go all you know [TS]

01:39:03   I assume that i can change the entire [TS]

01:39:06   way politics works right what are the [TS]

01:39:08   parts where you go [TS]

01:39:09   I'm just gonna have to i'm just gonna [TS]

01:39:10   have to live with that because that's [TS]

01:39:11   that part is not going to change [TS]

01:39:13   I mean at every step of the way they are [TS]

01:39:15   vested interests and there are people [TS]

01:39:16   that are going to say you can't do that [TS]

01:39:18   and there's and the thing is it when you [TS]

01:39:19   talk about a city government right [TS]

01:39:21   there the city is also inside of a [TS]

01:39:23   county and the county is inside of a [TS]

01:39:25   state and the state is inside of a of [TS]

01:39:27   the country and all of those other [TS]

01:39:29   jurisdictions also have laws that apply [TS]

01:39:32   in effect the city and you can't just [TS]

01:39:36   say like i'm going to change the state [TS]

01:39:38   law out stuff that's going to happen [TS]

01:39:40   above your pay grade [TS]

01:39:41   you know where where where initially [TS]

01:39:44   when i first started talking about the [TS]

01:39:45   police I was like what the police should [TS]

01:39:46   live in the neighborhoods they police [TS]

01:39:47   that seems like a no-brainer that's kind [TS]

01:39:49   of like the old times right when the guy [TS]

01:39:51   in Chicago swing is billy club walking [TS]

01:39:53   down the street in it in his own [TS]

01:39:54   neighborhood [TS]

01:39:55   well then i started reading up on and I [TS]

01:39:57   learned a few things one the state of [TS]

01:39:59   Washington prohibits municipalities from [TS]

01:40:02   requiring that the their officers live [TS]

01:40:05   in their neighborhood you're kidding [TS]

01:40:06   no because that was there was a time [TS]

01:40:08   when the police union said that's unfair [TS]

01:40:11   and you know and some of those cases [TS]

01:40:14   probably went all the way to the Supreme [TS]

01:40:16   Court you can't force people to live a [TS]

01:40:18   certain place i had a conversation the [TS]

01:40:20   other day with a dats cool really cool [TS]

01:40:22   guy really cool kids they seem at the [TS]

01:40:24   comic store all the time they're they're [TS]

01:40:25   very cool and he just kind of offered up [TS]

01:40:27   out of nowhere that oh no I we know I [TS]

01:40:30   would never he's like I work in Xyz city [TS]

01:40:32   I live in San Francisco like I would use [TS]

01:40:35   your cop cop living in the same town [TS]

01:40:37   that he works in it was kind of a [TS]

01:40:38   spider-man thing it's like it wouldn't [TS]

01:40:40   be safe he feels like it's not safe to [TS]

01:40:42   live where you work right and that have [TS]

01:40:45   you heard that I think that's very [TS]

01:40:46   interesting [TS]

01:40:46   that's crazy on the face of it but I but [TS]

01:40:49   you know what [TS]

01:40:50   what happened was the police said look [TS]

01:40:51   we can't we're not making very much [TS]

01:40:53   money and we can't afford to live in the [TS]

01:40:55   in the city or you know there are a lot [TS]

01:40:57   of arguments why you can't say if you [TS]

01:40:59   want to if you want to work here you [TS]

01:41:01   have to live in this neighborhood or [TS]

01:41:03   something so but the state but that but [TS]

01:41:05   they took that to the state the state [TS]

01:41:06   made a loss so now the city can't [TS]

01:41:08   require that well then i started reading [TS]

01:41:10   you know reading up on the topic turns [TS]

01:41:13   out they've done studies of a of lots of [TS]

01:41:19   municipalities some of them do have [TS]

01:41:21   rules that the police have to live in [TS]

01:41:23   the city [TS]

01:41:24   some of them don't and the cities that [TS]

01:41:26   have that require their police to live [TS]

01:41:29   in the city do not have any better [TS]

01:41:32   police outcomes in some cases too [TS]

01:41:34   radically worse police outcome oh [TS]

01:41:36   interesting wow what it turned out was [TS]

01:41:41   that the biggest factor for improving [TS]

01:41:44   your police is high-quality training of [TS]

01:41:46   your police ideally in a transparent [TS]

01:41:48   glass building in the middle of town [TS]

01:41:50   right without exercise your land that's [TS]

01:41:52   right and then they run through the [TS]

01:41:54   streets in a sweat say police trainee [TS]

01:41:57   and they're sweeping sweeping sweeping [TS]

01:41:59   but but the but you know height right [TS]

01:42:02   high quality training is where is where [TS]

01:42:04   you get good police and then you go oh [TS]

01:42:06   duh right of course high-quality [TS]

01:42:10   training it was matter where they live [TS]

01:42:12   if they're done well trained [TS]

01:42:13   that's right and so you know the [TS]

01:42:15   evilution of those of the evolution of [TS]

01:42:19   my thought at least on that matter was [TS]

01:42:22   really affected by the fact that I came [TS]

01:42:24   up against state law which was like yeah [TS]

01:42:27   well we've already we've already been [TS]

01:42:29   through this and if you want to go to [TS]

01:42:31   the state if you want to if you want to [TS]

01:42:34   propose a law and take it to the state [TS]

01:42:35   and say we need to require the police to [TS]

01:42:37   live in our cities you can go down that [TS]

01:42:39   rabbit hole and if you win you win and [TS]

01:42:44   if you lose you lose but our what do you [TS]

01:42:46   want do you want the symbolic victory of [TS]

01:42:48   rat do you want to be able to say that I [TS]

01:42:51   believe that that is going to work or or [TS]

01:42:53   or its first all that sounds very wise [TS]

01:42:55   but it's also like you're like oh well [TS]

01:42:57   you know guys I came back to think from [TS]

01:42:59   a couple weeks ago I can't paint on this [TS]

01:43:01   like this is this is a real tentpole of [TS]

01:43:04   my campaign I can't change even my mind [TS]

01:43:07   about this right but a little my [TS]

01:43:09   dedication it doesn't matter what is [TS]

01:43:10   right or wrong this is why I'm here i [TS]

01:43:12   can read 25 studies about a thing but [TS]

01:43:14   since I've gone out and said this [TS]

01:43:16   already I can't change my mind on this [TS]

01:43:18   going to make me look like a waffle and [TS]

01:43:20   then that case expertise is getting in [TS]

01:43:22   your way [TS]

01:43:23   well yeah and the and here's gonna draw [TS]

01:43:25   another if your schedule and the [TS]

01:43:27   expectation that we have that [TS]

01:43:28   politicians can't publicly change their [TS]

01:43:30   mind and say I read some things I talked [TS]

01:43:32   to some people that are smarter than me [TS]

01:43:33   about this now i have a different [TS]

01:43:35   opinion about it and the new thing is [TS]

01:43:38   actually within our ability to do which [TS]

01:43:40   is to which is to require that our [TS]

01:43:42   police be trained at a high level and [TS]

01:43:44   that is measurable [TS]

01:43:46   and it doesn't require that we that we [TS]

01:43:49   change state laws what it does requires [TS]

01:43:51   that all the people out there who are [TS]

01:43:53   chanting force the police to live in our [TS]

01:43:55   neighborhoods you have to now convince [TS]

01:43:58   them who were formerly your allies and [TS]

01:44:01   you have every reason to believe that [TS]

01:44:02   you've been corrupted by exposure to the [TS]

01:44:04   elements that made that impossible in [TS]

01:44:06   the past this one and so you go back to [TS]

01:44:07   your original constituents to do you say [TS]

01:44:09   look I guys i've learned some stuff I'd [TS]

01:44:12   like you to read these things and [TS]

01:44:13   they're like they feel like you're a [TS]

01:44:16   sellout a trainer and you're like oh i [TS]

01:44:19   know i am i what what I want is a better [TS]

01:44:22   police department right same thing you [TS]

01:44:24   want but now you've you know now you've [TS]

01:44:27   crossed the spiritual line of [TS]

01:44:30   challenging the thing that you all used [TS]

01:44:34   to agree just sounded like the solution [TS]

01:44:36   so that that process is like a process [TS]

01:44:40   of maturation that requires that you [TS]

01:44:44   have some integrity inside and a lot of [TS]

01:44:51   people the clarity also the clarity of [TS]

01:44:52   making make sure you fully understand it [TS]

01:44:54   gets its good for you because you go [TS]

01:44:56   that's I can learn anything and that was [TS]

01:44:57   good but also have to really clarify the [TS]

01:44:59   problem statement like you know I mean [TS]

01:45:01   the way to frame that to yourself and to [TS]

01:45:03   others will say like well you know it [TS]

01:45:05   still matters for us to have a police [TS]

01:45:07   force that does these following things [TS]

01:45:09   and I've learned a thing here and what [TS]

01:45:11   you discover is that some people what [TS]

01:45:13   they really just want to do is punish [TS]

01:45:15   the police or punish the developers or [TS]

01:45:17   punish the banks and when you come you [TS]

01:45:20   come back and you're like I looked into [TS]

01:45:22   this more and it turns out that this [TS]

01:45:25   thing that we thought was gonna really [TS]

01:45:27   help us is like not as good a case as [TS]

01:45:31   this other thing and it's a nightmare to [TS]

01:45:32   administer yeah but people are like that [TS]

01:45:35   one [TS]

01:45:36   even though it doesn't work and is a [TS]

01:45:38   nightmare to administer it is really [TS]

01:45:39   expensive it punishes them more and [TS]

01:45:42   that's what I want it turns out what I [TS]

01:45:45   want is to shame and punish the book of [TS]

01:45:48   the people that I think are the bad [TS]

01:45:50   people thinking about you get so much [TS]

01:45:52   attraction with people in certain [TS]

01:45:54   quarters but that approach [TS]

01:45:56   well I know that that's a [TS]

01:45:57   typically who runs for public office of [TS]

01:45:59   the people that stand up and say I am so [TS]

01:46:01   mad at the cement contractors big cement [TS]

01:46:05   fucking cement contractors are pouring [TS]

01:46:08   shitty cement and we are going to punish [TS]

01:46:10   them and the cement contractors are like [TS]

01:46:12   well you know actually what we we like [TS]

01:46:15   to pour get some into it's just the the [TS]

01:46:17   contract stipulated that and they're [TS]

01:46:18   just like shut up use contractors you're [TS]

01:46:22   gonna suck a tuba cement on my watch [TS]

01:46:26   when I'm the Big Cheese around here and [TS]

01:46:29   you get this [TS]

01:46:29   yeah and then you get city government [TS]

01:46:30   where those you know those people go [TS]

01:46:32   into office that's why you have all [TS]

01:46:33   those conversations with people where [TS]

01:46:34   they cut you know it's that Mitt Romney [TS]

01:46:36   and the forty-six percent or whatever [TS]

01:46:37   his gaffe was when he gets around people [TS]

01:46:40   that he thinks he can talk to ya all of [TS]

01:46:44   a sudden he's like all right we all know [TS]

01:46:45   the deal right right right and that [TS]

01:46:49   whole as soon as you are sitting in [TS]

01:46:51   office in here and you're talking to [TS]

01:46:52   some people like with the Clinton thumb [TS]

01:46:55   pointing at them with the Clintons I'm [TS]

01:46:57   going we need the proper number and then [TS]

01:47:00   another group of people you're like [TS]

01:47:01   really leaning in and casually sprint [TS]

01:47:03   you know the real deal here right right [TS]

01:47:05   alien no attention to the thumb living [TS]

01:47:08   under the Arctic ice cap and they're [TS]

01:47:10   running our government through and child [TS]

01:47:12   trails but we're not going to say that [TS]

01:47:14   to people and it's like all sorry that [TS]

01:47:16   the bus boy was filming the whole thing [TS]

01:47:18   and what up get no I believe my city [TS]

01:47:23   council candidacy believes that we [TS]

01:47:26   should close [TS]

01:47:29   as the question member like your answer [TS]

01:47:33   back [TS]