Roderick on the Line

Ep. 152: "Butterfly Farts"


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00:00:24   [Music] [TS]

00:00:29   hello hi John hi Merlin has gone well [TS]

00:00:36   I'm finding my way back to you Merlin I [TS]

00:00:44   know the frankie valli version of that [TS]

00:00:46   best mhm it inside like cover right [TS]

00:00:49   I like the way as you started to hum it [TS]

00:00:51   its you started humming and then sort of [TS]

00:00:53   the trumpets came in and then we're kind [TS]

00:00:55   of doing a little bit of marching band [TS]

00:00:57   version of it [TS]

00:00:57   mmm tusk don't get to do 250 to do i'm [TS]

00:01:10   intrigued by what marching bands [TS]

00:01:12   besides you to play I you know it's fun [TS]

00:01:14   to get to have fun with that they do it [TS]

00:01:17   seems like that is one of the that's [TS]

00:01:19   like the unifying characteristic of all [TS]

00:01:20   marching bands isn't it fun is it is fun [TS]

00:01:23   like in stage band you know we played [TS]

00:01:26   standards and we played kind of like [TS]

00:01:30   light fusion but mostly I was it was we [TS]

00:01:34   did a terrible version of Night Train [TS]

00:01:36   like awful version light rain [TS]

00:01:38   oh I was uh it was pretty abysmal mean [TS]

00:01:41   I'm own and my dream that someone Joey [TS]

00:01:44   what is that I don't think that was the [TS]

00:01:46   bird house the 1i train now one of the [TS]

00:01:50   nice things about marching bands you get [TS]

00:01:52   that can detect that like reverb ease [TS]

00:01:56   snares I love 3i love all the drums all [TS]

00:02:00   the great drums i love the glockenspiel [TS]

00:02:01   I like when I we live kinda near high [TS]

00:02:03   school and I love hearing that it still [TS]

00:02:06   sounds so great [TS]

00:02:07   Bingbing i have a you know uh my good [TS]

00:02:10   good friend Maria was the clock and [TS]

00:02:13   Peele player in the marching band i'm [TS]

00:02:14   pretty sure [TS]

00:02:15   Brady's bits my mother played [TS]

00:02:16   glockenspiel around our i think a jam by [TS]

00:02:22   going around again I was thinking about [TS]

00:02:27   reverb the other day as you do and how [TS]

00:02:30   thinking about I was thinking about how [TS]

00:02:33   contemporary pop music almost all has [TS]

00:02:37   this massive stadium reverb on [TS]

00:02:40   everything we noticed this yeah i think [TS]

00:02:43   i think i know what you mean especially [TS]

00:02:44   the kind of like and again I will at [TS]

00:02:46   this point just see myself out I don't [TS]

00:02:47   know the name is a lot of bands but it's [TS]

00:02:49   a certain kind of smooth [TS]

00:02:51   middle-of-the-road emo ish kind of thing [TS]

00:02:55   then it is very bombastic very big no no [TS]

00:02:59   I mean like I think I know what you're [TS]

00:03:00   talking about though there's a i mean i [TS]

00:03:02   don't know maybe I think I know like [TS]

00:03:04   it's just sounds big big big and of [TS]

00:03:05   course be extinguished all the way up [TS]

00:03:07   all the levels all the way up [TS]

00:03:09   yeah it was thinking about in terms of [TS]

00:03:11   of the fact that like songwriting now [TS]

00:03:16   for the most part like where we've [TS]

00:03:19   talked about this before where you know [TS]

00:03:20   we're like yellow has great songwriting [TS]

00:03:23   but also you can't divorce the [TS]

00:03:24   songwriting from the production right i [TS]

00:03:27   mean this is the think somebody asked me [TS]

00:03:28   the other day like what do you think of [TS]

00:03:30   Donovan I was like well you know those [TS]

00:03:33   great Donovan singles like the [TS]

00:03:35   production of them is as important as [TS]

00:03:37   the as the song itself right like I [TS]

00:03:41   hurdy gurdy man is a sound as much as it [TS]

00:03:44   is a song [TS]

00:03:46   yeah they got a kind of spooky feeling [TS]

00:03:50   to houki and groove Ian like you know a [TS]

00:03:54   stony droney but but in a way that if [TS]

00:03:59   you do if you take any of those great [TS]

00:04:00   cat stevens singles which are great [TS]

00:04:02   sounding but then you could also just as [TS]

00:04:05   we've seen innumerable times you could [TS]

00:04:07   play them with a hat with your baseball [TS]

00:04:09   hat on the ground in front of a sports [TS]

00:04:11   stadium on a four string acoustic guitar [TS]

00:04:14   and the song still translates who wears [TS]

00:04:17   hurdy gurdy man something would be [TS]

00:04:18   something would be lost to cover it [TS]

00:04:21   because the tone anyway so as I think [TS]

00:04:24   about contemporary pop music and listen [TS]

00:04:26   to the song writing and I just AM like [TS]

00:04:28   that i don't even hear the song really [TS]

00:04:30   i'm not sure how you would even cover [TS]

00:04:32   this song because the song is so much [TS]

00:04:35   less important now than the sound and [TS]

00:04:38   all these big big big radio hits now are [TS]

00:04:41   just full of this epic sounding swelling [TS]

00:04:45   chanting big drums lots of like hey and [TS]

00:04:49   stuff you know like really and if i were [TS]

00:04:52   a young person and this was my contempt [TS]

00:04:54   very music i would really be under the [TS]

00:04:57   impression that my emotions were on a [TS]

00:05:00   you know my emotions were very important [TS]

00:05:03   you know what I mean right yeah yeah [TS]

00:05:06   yeah there's there's no there's no sense [TS]

00:05:08   of like the way the motown a lot of [TS]

00:05:10   ambiguity to a lot of it right and and [TS]

00:05:13   it's not personal right it doesn't feel [TS]

00:05:15   like all this song is about me and my [TS]

00:05:17   you know and my broken hardness and my [TS]

00:05:19   god it's just me and the singer I'm [TS]

00:05:22   listening in this to this radio that's [TS]

00:05:24   I'm coming in on on on on pirate radio [TS]

00:05:27   from Mexico and you know and now it just [TS]

00:05:29   feels like a like every song is so epic [TS]

00:05:34   and the and so as a as a kid you'd be [TS]

00:05:37   listening to this music you're like [TS]

00:05:38   that's my tune and so it's a very [TS]

00:05:42   important song and I must be a very [TS]

00:05:44   important person [TS]

00:05:45   yeah it's a knife and I and I and I [TS]

00:05:48   attributed to the to the use of this the [TS]

00:05:50   huge reverb on everything this like hey [TS]

00:05:54   and you just feel like wow that's just [TS]

00:05:57   echoing off the back of the stadium [TS]

00:05:59   I think of it i think i think i know [TS]

00:06:00   what you mean and but the nearest [TS]

00:06:02   analogy from when I was younger I would [TS]

00:06:05   probably be disco where I mean you know [TS]

00:06:07   I take a song like KC and the Sunshine [TS]

00:06:10   Band like they had some really good [TS]

00:06:12   disco like party songs but they were [TS]

00:06:15   kind of just a groove a lot of the time [TS]

00:06:17   you and really was all about the [TS]

00:06:19   production and you know getting the the [TS]

00:06:21   drums and that all the percussion and [TS]

00:06:24   all of the base you know way high and [TS]

00:06:27   something may be seen out to be so it [TS]

00:06:29   sounds good in a club but I think that's [TS]

00:06:31   it's similar in that way where the way [TS]

00:06:34   it sounds is a huge part of like what [TS]

00:06:37   the song is right the way the way it [TS]

00:06:39   sounds is the song but like the disco [TS]

00:06:41   stuff the biggest like the the biggest [TS]

00:06:46   that in the biggest space that intended [TS]

00:06:49   to convey was a club right like you're [TS]

00:06:52   listening that stuff and you're like [TS]

00:06:53   yeah I'm feeling the base and i'm on the [TS]

00:06:54   dance floor and i'm in a club and it's [TS]

00:06:56   Saturday night that was the biggest that [TS]

00:07:00   was as big as the space would be and so [TS]

00:07:02   even still it could contain like the [TS]

00:07:05   person i like is here [TS]

00:07:07   dancing with someone else you know there [TS]

00:07:09   was it was still in the realm of the [TS]

00:07:11   personal but like these tunes now like [TS]

00:07:15   the space that they are trying to convey [TS]

00:07:17   is like we are marching through the [TS]

00:07:19   desert waving giant red banners we are [TS]

00:07:23   honored urgency [TS]

00:07:25   yeah we are an army on the move we are [TS]

00:07:27   we are crossing the steps and we are [TS]

00:07:30   coming into Hungary it like it is it [TS]

00:07:35   with my co adds so much huger sounding [TS]

00:07:39   and there is in there at least to my [TS]

00:07:41   ears doesn't feel like there's any space [TS]

00:07:43   in there to be like I'm a person and the [TS]

00:07:45   person i like is a is across the room [TS]

00:07:48   it's much more like I'm in this army and [TS]

00:07:50   we're moving together forward to like to [TS]

00:07:53   do something ambiguous you know like I [TS]

00:07:55   mean I think the taylor swift lyrics are [TS]

00:07:58   still to the effect of like haters gonna [TS]

00:08:01   hate but but it feels like it feels like [TS]

00:08:04   haters are gonna hate in a giant giant [TS]

00:08:06   right crystal but cathedral type of [TS]

00:08:11   setting [TS]

00:08:12   yeah you know I'm trying to I'm trying [TS]

00:08:15   to think about this though because you [TS]

00:08:17   know more about like how this stuff it's [TS]

00:08:18   made an idea but i have a you know i'm [TS]

00:08:20   not going to say grudging admiration I [TS]

00:08:22   developed a kind of admiration for pop [TS]

00:08:25   culture products even if it's not like [TS]

00:08:27   something that I'm i really enjoy [TS]

00:08:29   sometimes I hear something like I think [TS]

00:08:32   her name is a pee ! i'll hear one of the [TS]

00:08:35   the hair pink tune and like that Reddick [TS]

00:08:39   raise your glass song it's it's such a [TS]

00:08:42   great tune [TS]

00:08:43   yeah and it's but it has that it has [TS]

00:08:45   that I think that has a feeling you're [TS]

00:08:46   talking about were like it's like it's [TS]

00:08:48   such a rallying cry and I think it's a [TS]

00:08:51   rallying cry about a party [TS]

00:08:52   oh alright brown crab are you know [TS]

00:08:55   there's a lot of those songs were like [TS]

00:08:56   it you know it really it's and and the [TS]

00:08:58   sound so derogatory don't mean because [TS]

00:09:00   you know to each his own and people are [TS]

00:09:02   successful it but yeah it does really [TS]

00:09:03   feel like it really more more is is made [TS]

00:09:07   to this is the same thing people been [TS]

00:09:09   saying since the thirties probably he's [TS]

00:09:13   not even used to live in a megaphone [TS]

00:09:15   well I'm [TS]

00:09:16   what is that a microphone in my day we [TS]

00:09:20   have to sing into a cup that's to that [TS]

00:09:22   Charlie but i think that i think there [TS]

00:09:24   is something to it in the sense that a [TS]

00:09:26   lot of covers that you see of modern pop [TS]

00:09:30   tunes the cover really seeks to reinvent [TS]

00:09:34   the tune right if you see somebody do a [TS]

00:09:36   cover of a modern pop tune it's almost [TS]

00:09:38   always like us they they take it they [TS]

00:09:40   take a really hyped up big stadium tune [TS]

00:09:44   and they can they play a sad acoustic [TS]

00:09:47   guitar slow we be cover of it okay [TS]

00:09:51   yeah it kind of arcade fire it yet they [TS]

00:09:53   have because they have to because there [TS]

00:09:55   isn't a way to do a straight cover of it [TS]

00:09:57   right in order to do a straight cover [TS]

00:09:59   you would need 18 people in your band [TS]

00:10:01   and that seems a little antiquated to do [TS]

00:10:03   like even back to what 15 20 years ago [TS]

00:10:06   to the unplugged era where like Nirvana [TS]

00:10:10   doing meat puppets covers in the way [TS]

00:10:11   that they were doing them under rana CLE [TS]

00:10:14   and like but also you like really gonna [TS]

00:10:15   reinterpreting them significantly and [TS]

00:10:18   yes [TS]

00:10:19   yeah yeah and and but but like the tunes [TS]

00:10:22   had the tunes had a chord structure [TS]

00:10:24   right they weren't just like a drum loop [TS]

00:10:26   and a and a and just tons and tons of [TS]

00:10:31   reverb yeah it's a it's a it's an [TS]

00:10:34   interesting evolution and I find myself [TS]

00:10:36   driving along listening to pop music and [TS]

00:10:38   feeling these big feeling this kind of [TS]

00:10:40   epics well that you might that I might [TS]

00:10:44   have once felt listening to the [TS]

00:10:47   Scorpions worldwide live [TS]

00:10:48   mhm right yeah uh but but the Scorpions [TS]

00:10:53   you know haha even them at their biggest [TS]

00:10:59   emotional swell it was he was still [TS]

00:11:03   contained somewhat right it was like [TS]

00:11:05   that was no I'm like yo and and year and [TS]

00:11:10   you're imagining yourself in within the [TS]

00:11:13   within that song and thinking like I [TS]

00:11:16   think a lot of metal the way you were [TS]

00:11:18   meant to imagine yourself in it was as a [TS]

00:11:21   member of the band rather than like well [TS]

00:11:24   that's really interesting you know what [TS]

00:11:26   I mean like hoedown music you weren't [TS]

00:11:28   meant to imagine yourself in the band [TS]

00:11:30   you were meant to the music was was was [TS]

00:11:33   capturing like who you were that you [TS]

00:11:36   could use the song personally in sin in [TS]

00:11:40   metal you were meant to imagine like [TS]

00:11:42   here is how I'm overcoming my [TS]

00:11:44   circumstances i am the guitarist in this [TS]

00:11:47   band i'm singing this song and maybe the [TS]

00:11:49   person the song is about is in the back [TS]

00:11:51   of the auditorium [TS]

00:11:52   uh-huh and I'm singing it to them but [TS]

00:11:54   like that's the level of triumph and and [TS]

00:11:58   I feel like we've now that evolution has [TS]

00:12:01   continued and it's like the only way you [TS]

00:12:04   can put yourself into a song now is as [TS]

00:12:07   the star as the as the pop star who has [TS]

00:12:10   triumphed over all and in case something [TS]

00:12:14   like Taylor Swift her songs which I [TS]

00:12:17   think are often things just extremely [TS]

00:12:19   catchy and well done i'm not the male [TS]

00:12:22   fan that some of my friends are but i [TS]

00:12:23   really enjoy it every time I hear that [TS]

00:12:25   shake it off so long i think that's it [TS]

00:12:26   that's a really really great Explorer [TS]

00:12:28   jam it into jam yeah but in her case [TS]

00:12:30   like I think you are supposed place is [TS]

00:12:34   gonna get so like first your philosophy [TS]

00:12:36   class I think you really are supposed to [TS]

00:12:39   put yourself in her position she is [TS]

00:12:41   shoes she's in Taylors shoes she's [TS]

00:12:43   singing a song about her life and this [TS]

00:12:45   breakup I think more often than not and [TS]

00:12:48   that's that supposed to have residents [TS]

00:12:50   with you both on the level of like [TS]

00:12:51   empathizing with taylor swift but also [TS]

00:12:53   feeling that that same feeling yourself [TS]

00:12:57   yeah that maybe one day if you do you [TS]

00:13:00   know if you play your cards right that [TS]

00:13:02   you two will have the moment you you too [TS]

00:13:05   will be able to stand up on the big [TS]

00:13:06   stage be the star and shake it off shake [TS]

00:13:11   off the haters but you know having any [TS]

00:13:13   kind of a message of empowerment in a [TS]

00:13:15   song is is gonna resonate with somebody [TS]

00:13:17   i think you know what I mean whereas in [TS]

00:13:18   scorpions they got a guy with forks in [TS]

00:13:20   his eyes you know that's a tough get was [TS]

00:13:22   swollen when you think recover remember [TS]

00:13:24   breakout that such a great cover [TS]

00:13:27   walk quacks help that solo so what I was [TS]

00:13:33   you know I i saw the Scorpions several [TS]

00:13:36   times during the worldwide live you made [TS]

00:13:38   eye contact with them [TS]

00:13:40   that's right with [TS]

00:13:41   a we get this wrong every every year so [TS]

00:13:44   M we may well with the guitar players [TS]

00:13:46   mm-hmm go ahead do this rocket is I said [TS]

00:13:49   dubis rocket is that his name do this [TS]

00:13:53   rocket after doing so [TS]

00:13:55   rockin Stein him [TS]

00:14:00   uh yeah yeah he he looked at me right [TS]

00:14:04   right in the eyes [TS]

00:14:06   yeah it's probably a wolf gang or a [TS]

00:14:08   class or a it's a chancre was a chancre [TS]

00:14:11   was no it wasn't the shake its not [TS]

00:14:13   important to the story it was Matthias [TS]

00:14:14   jab and Mattias jobs [TS]

00:14:16   yes and and he and I had a moment boy [TS]

00:14:19   I'm sure he had 40 of those moments that [TS]

00:14:23   night really stuck with me i always [TS]

00:14:26   wanted to always wanted a guitar with [TS]

00:14:27   some stripes on it [TS]

00:14:29   oh yeah he played like am like a context [TS]

00:14:31   a modified explorer yeah or v EF knows [TS]

00:14:35   that explore there was a it was a [TS]

00:14:36   chancre was the other shanker that had [TS]

00:14:39   the it was the young single letter [TS]

00:14:41   shanker shaker filled that are single [TS]

00:14:42   day and a shaker pair [TS]

00:14:45   yeah yeah you got to get the original [TS]

00:14:47   shanker from michael Shank Michael [TS]

00:14:49   Schenker any little girl shanker well [TS]

00:14:51   you got client a client shanker have you [TS]

00:14:53   ever seen a have you ever seen Michael [TS]

00:14:55   Schenker the mile sugar group msg [TS]

00:14:57   mhm i am and i don't think i can name [TS]

00:15:00   one of their songs to be honest [TS]

00:15:01   well he is a phenomenal guitar player [TS]

00:15:04   and and the the songs maybe and that's [TS]

00:15:08   it that's a good example of the metal a [TS]

00:15:09   corollary to this conversation which is [TS]

00:15:12   that the songs are less important than [TS]

00:15:14   the fluidity the fluidity of his he's [TS]

00:15:18   recording like leader seventies early [TS]

00:15:21   and mid eighties he's still touring I [TS]

00:15:22   saw him last year [TS]

00:15:24   wow I saw him at a barbecue restaurant [TS]

00:15:27   in tacoma washington where every 15 [TS]

00:15:33   minutes all of the waitresses suddenly [TS]

00:15:35   jumped up on the tables and dance to a [TS]

00:15:38   song and in short shorts and then got [TS]

00:15:41   down and started waiting tables again [TS]

00:15:42   that doesn't seem hygienic John it was [TS]

00:15:45   it was really [TS]

00:15:47   ah instructive [TS]

00:15:51   it I i was reminded of i remind i was [TS]

00:15:56   reminded that the rest of the world [TS]

00:15:57   continues puttering along and even as as [TS]

00:16:01   we hear in our in our internet tower [TS]

00:16:03   like to think that we are somewhere else [TS]

00:16:06   but sometimes it's useful to know that [TS]

00:16:07   can i get an update from you we haven't [TS]

00:16:10   done an update with from you in a while [TS]

00:16:12   yeah so you you're still mostly driving [TS]

00:16:13   the big new truck right [TS]

00:16:15   no I have a I have so i have a jetta put [TS]

00:16:19   the jetta first of all the jetta is [TS]

00:16:23   ridiculous because it is a stud black [TS]

00:16:25   jetta and looks like it's ridiculous 99 [TS]

00:16:29   called they want their weapons come back [TS]

00:16:31   exactly right I feel like everybody add [TS]

00:16:33   one we had one everybody had one I feel [TS]

00:16:35   like every time I step out of it that [TS]

00:16:37   the pic the theme from friends should [TS]

00:16:39   play we have a jetta wagon so don't feel [TS]

00:16:41   too back [TS]

00:16:42   yeah no identity damn and and so but the [TS]

00:16:45   tabs expired recently and uh in order to [TS]

00:16:49   get the tabs renewed I have to get an [TS]

00:16:52   emissions test so then for a while i was [TS]

00:16:57   driving a sort of a borrowed passat [TS]

00:17:00   wagon little bit little bit bigger girl [TS]

00:17:04   that was our aspirational mom and dad [TS]

00:17:06   car that's a sweet ride [TS]

00:17:07   SOT SOT was nice nice car but now that's [TS]

00:17:10   gone again that's been taken away so [TS]

00:17:11   today i am driving the truck yes [TS]

00:17:13   ok so i ask because when you're riding [TS]

00:17:16   around I know historically it has not [TS]

00:17:18   been your habit to just listen to music [TS]

00:17:19   as background stuff but like when you're [TS]

00:17:22   in your repose and you're putting on the [TS]

00:17:25   do you turn on the radio and when you [TS]

00:17:27   turn on the radio what you listen to is [TS]

00:17:29   that isn't an interesting question [TS]

00:17:31   because I think I think that's an [TS]

00:17:32   interesting question [TS]

00:17:32   yeah you know I i always used to listen [TS]

00:17:35   to sort of all these and watching the [TS]

00:17:40   watching what the fight what what met [TS]

00:17:43   the criteria of all these change that [TS]

00:17:46   was really interesting to me you know it [TS]

00:17:48   used to be like rockin Robin bop-bop-bop [TS]

00:17:51   rockin Robin and then pretty soon it was [TS]

00:17:54   like women I just hear black hole sun [TS]

00:17:57   but with that but yes the first change [TS]

00:18:01   was like when you started here crosby [TS]

00:18:02   Stills and Nash you're like is that all [TS]

00:18:04   Goldie is that what we're calling that [TS]

00:18:05   now I thought that was a classic rock [TS]

00:18:07   and now for sure it's like Tom Petty [TS]

00:18:09   suddenly there's a shift in the last 10 [TS]

00:18:11   years where it used to be like when we [TS]

00:18:14   were coming up you have like the AOR [TS]

00:18:15   stations that were playing you know [TS]

00:18:17   whatever current and classic rock you [TS]

00:18:21   know Julian classic rock but but then at [TS]

00:18:24   some point you know you a question that [TS]

00:18:25   the pop stations what I would then call [TS]

00:18:27   a top-40 station and then at some point [TS]

00:18:28   we've talked about kait here in town [TS]

00:18:30   there's there are a lot of stations that [TS]

00:18:32   are like the best of the best of the [TS]

00:18:34   seventies eighties nineties in the 2,000 [TS]

00:18:36   it's not just this mishmash of [TS]

00:18:38   unobjectionable music a lot of times [TS]

00:18:40   well yeah and that that's what's so [TS]

00:18:42   crazy to me is that all that music used [TS]

00:18:46   to mean so much within the context of [TS]

00:18:49   its of its genre i will at the thing is [TS]

00:18:54   it's like I'd like to say lobsters don't [TS]

00:18:55   think of themselves primarily as food [TS]

00:18:56   and in this case fans of Big Chill and [TS]

00:19:00   post picture music have a very strong [TS]

00:19:01   association with like there's so much [TS]

00:19:03   specificity to like a witch jackson [TS]

00:19:05   browne record you like that sounds like [TS]

00:19:07   really old timey but you know which cat [TS]

00:19:10   stevens which van morrison records like [TS]

00:19:11   they aren't those are not oldies those [TS]

00:19:13   are like works of art you know that and [TS]

00:19:15   you wouldn't think of it as just getting [TS]

00:19:17   tossed into the same pile based on age [TS]

00:19:19   that still seems very strange and i have [TS]

00:19:22   to say somewhat artificial I get why [TS]

00:19:23   they do it demographically but it's [TS]

00:19:25   still strange somebody who love that [TS]

00:19:26   music and see the distinction between [TS]

00:19:28   all these different things that i don't [TS]

00:19:30   know i don't i'm not i'm not mad about [TS]

00:19:32   it but I do think it's interesting that [TS]

00:19:33   we mainly do it based on age with a [TS]

00:19:35   slight access for demographics [TS]

00:19:37   well we we always did but like recently [TS]

00:19:40   I have noticed within the dance music [TS]

00:19:44   radio a slot that craft works on the [TS]

00:19:51   data is great he has a lot of that there [TS]

00:19:54   is now I mean back and i think that this [TS]

00:19:56   is happening in rock music too and in [TS]

00:19:58   folk music right there it gets divorced [TS]

00:20:01   from context increasingly and I think [TS]

00:20:05   for a while I was just as all of us old [TS]

00:20:09   people are uh I was freaked out by [TS]

00:20:12   divorcing it from context you could not [TS]

00:20:14   put an ac/dc song [TS]

00:20:17   next to a talking head song on the radio [TS]

00:20:20   it didn't make any sense they were from [TS]

00:20:23   different universes [TS]

00:20:25   I don't understand it right right I'm [TS]

00:20:28   and then I realized like to the ear of a [TS]

00:20:32   person who didn't come up knowing that [TS]

00:20:34   those were different universes they [TS]

00:20:36   sound great together and at time it's [TS]

00:20:39   something we've talked about this so [TS]

00:20:39   much better stay CDC and def leppard in [TS]

00:20:42   the am not lying stuff or any of that [TS]

00:20:45   stuff even looking at mr. do it all [TS]

00:20:46   sounds so much rougher at the time and [TS]

00:20:49   now with with time you got these are pop [TS]

00:20:51   song yeah there's a problem but i was i [TS]

00:20:53   I was in a i was in a shot the other day [TS]

00:20:55   and they were playing what could only be [TS]

00:20:57   called like dance music mix dance music [TS]

00:21:02   mix jam and every tune had like Smith's [TS]

00:21:08   but they were completely they were [TS]

00:21:14   completely agnostic about a like era so [TS]

00:21:18   so they were playing like lift freak and [TS]

00:21:24   then right into some kind of nineties [TS]

00:21:27   British a house music and right into [TS]

00:21:31   some very contemporary DJ based jams and [TS]

00:21:37   then back to now Rogers and it it just [TS]

00:21:42   was a seamless mix the only unifying [TS]

00:21:45   characteristic was that it had this like [TS]

00:21:46   disco dance beat right and I realized oh [TS]

00:21:50   sure if if I were 20 that would that's [TS]

00:21:55   what I would be listening for and not [TS]

00:21:57   you know and would I wouldn't [TS]

00:21:59   necessarily care that one of these [TS]

00:22:03   things was the pioneer of that and one [TS]

00:22:05   of them was a was later iteration one of [TS]

00:22:08   them is a modern iteration it's all just [TS]

00:22:10   as onra something how many people could [TS]

00:22:12   identify whether a given Bing Crosby [TS]

00:22:14   songs from the twenties thirties forties [TS]

00:22:16   or fifties 22 lot of people's ears [TS]

00:22:18   I bet sounds virtually identical me [TS]

00:22:21   fifties maybe a little bit different [TS]

00:22:23   yeah you know hearing hearing like an [TS]

00:22:25   old-timey song that sounds low fidelity [TS]

00:22:27   in that case but but here that's I think [TS]

00:22:29   that's partly a kind [TS]

00:22:30   sequence of what I'm just gonna get this [TS]

00:22:32   satellite radio and the demographics I [TS]

00:22:34   don't know how this works but I'm [TS]

00:22:35   guessing exactly like give me the kind [TS]

00:22:37   of music people fold clothes to it the [TS]

00:22:39   gap or topic or whatever uh-huh [TS]

00:22:43   give me you know i want some chill Jam [TS]

00:22:45   jams [TS]

00:22:46   it's like all right well let's put on [TS]

00:22:48   some chill jams [TS]

00:22:49   alright well what's the chill Jam uh you [TS]

00:22:52   know tubular bells sure that's chill [TS]

00:22:55   that's pretty chill Jam shielded else [TS]

00:22:57   you know music for airports uh the the [TS]

00:23:01   you know talk talk's the color of spring [TS]

00:23:04   that's a chill chill jams on that and [TS]

00:23:08   pretty soon you're into like well what [TS]

00:23:09   about this latest a this latest track [TS]

00:23:12   from like Ibiza around I'm sorry maybe [TS]

00:23:16   that he betta and pretty soon you gotta [TS]

00:23:19   children mix and it's also like a [TS]

00:23:21   pandora thing I think a lot of places do [TS]

00:23:24   like a pandora thing where you can make [TS]

00:23:25   a station i discovered it's a pretty [TS]

00:23:27   dark art I don't use pandora as much as [TS]

00:23:29   I used to but I discovered it's a real [TS]

00:23:30   dark art to pick the right band to base [TS]

00:23:33   your station on [TS]

00:23:34   okay i'm gonna like my station but [TS]

00:23:36   reasonable what would place on the long [TS]

00:23:38   winter station [TS]

00:23:39   oh you know a lot of don't yell at me [TS]

00:23:40   music haha right like what's the what's [TS]

00:23:45   the one thing that came up on a long [TS]

00:23:47   winter stationed we were like what I [TS]

00:23:48   don't know it i have to go look it up [TS]

00:23:50   but i think it was a lot of like men [TS]

00:23:52   with gentleman with beards kind of music [TS]

00:23:54   you know you know the kind [TS]

00:23:55   yeah the hog butcher music but on but [TS]

00:23:58   you know for example like I really like [TS]

00:23:59   old old country music and and and but [TS]

00:24:04   the thing is if you go in this is really [TS]

00:24:05   boring if you go in and make a station [TS]

00:24:07   based on Hank Williams you end up with [TS]

00:24:09   all kinds of nonsense i don't know why [TS]

00:24:11   but if you go to based on Hank Williams [TS]

00:24:13   all you get lots songs about regret [TS]

00:24:15   wife-beating but now you get a lot you [TS]

00:24:17   can include you get a lot of [TS]

00:24:18   contemporary stuff but if you go in and [TS]

00:24:20   make one based on Hanks know I've been [TS]

00:24:23   everywhere man guy like you get all of [TS]

00:24:25   this amazing stuff that's much more [TS]

00:24:27   contemporary to his time like you might [TS]

00:24:30   get some old Conway Twitty and stuff [TS]

00:24:31   like that but it's mostly pre cosmic for [TS]

00:24:34   the college country politan or whatever [TS]

00:24:35   it's got a pre mid sixties music and it [TS]

00:24:39   seems much more cohesive what's funny is [TS]

00:24:42   I don't [TS]

00:24:43   still do this but it used to be i think [TS]

00:24:46   it was on pandora is on one of those [TS]

00:24:47   services you can go in and it you could [TS]

00:24:51   flip a card in your iOS app and it will [TS]

00:24:53   show you why it picked that for you [TS]

00:24:56   oh never seen this no i don't use any of [TS]

00:24:58   these programs I i had like a course i [TS]

00:25:01   had a guided by voices station and [TS]

00:25:02   because you know you we thought you [TS]

00:25:04   liked this song because it includes [TS]

00:25:06   major chorus versus a fast be distorted [TS]

00:25:09   guitars and lyrics about you know [TS]

00:25:11   doesn't such beer or whatever really but [TS]

00:25:13   they've got a reason they can actually [TS]

00:25:14   when they choose to pull back the [TS]

00:25:16   curtain they can actually show you how [TS]

00:25:17   they calculated that this would be [TS]

00:25:19   something you'd like em [TS]

00:25:20   have you ever really studied the cover [TS]

00:25:24   of the Scorpions record animal magnetism [TS]

00:25:26   that the chewing gum in the limousine [TS]

00:25:29   no that's that's the that's the one both [TS]

00:25:32   the Lord the dog dog yeah it really has [TS]

00:25:35   to have inspired the spinal tap smell [TS]

00:25:38   the glove smell the glove it really it's [TS]

00:25:40   like so it's haven't thought about in [TS]

00:25:43   years i'm up oh my god i don't like this [TS]

00:25:46   in years [TS]

00:25:47   oh right like yeah yeah [TS]

00:25:50   fast forward fast forward 40 years [TS]

00:25:53   that's like that doesn't really stand up [TS]

00:25:56   lets them off with the chicken just for [TS]

00:25:57   my own purposes what's the word that you [TS]

00:25:59   can get them in the limo [TS]

00:26:00   that's that's a scorpion woman right [TS]

00:26:01   that you know might be there so so where [TS]

00:26:06   is he on his right here in the eyes [TS]

00:26:08   yeah I love dr i love drive is a guy it [TS]

00:26:13   go search for love dr it's a guy in a [TS]

00:26:15   three-piece suit and a woman with her [TS]

00:26:18   dress pulled aside and it's like he's [TS]

00:26:22   got his hand into chewing gum by [TS]

00:26:24   touching her boob [TS]

00:26:25   oh the chewing gum on the boob look at [TS]

00:26:27   that we should have time an animal [TS]

00:26:30   magnetism know there's something very [TS]

00:26:31   special going on here a lot of lot of a [TS]

00:26:33   lot of good James you know this corpse [TS]

00:26:35   like a lot of the best metal bands right [TS]

00:26:39   they they they made the live record and [TS]

00:26:42   that's a lie i have to have to say to [TS]

00:26:44   all of our listeners that have not [TS]

00:26:45   listened to the Scorpions the worldwide [TS]

00:26:48   live album is a great introduction Jenna [TS]

00:26:51   just as Judas Priest unleashed in the [TS]

00:26:55   east [TS]

00:26:56   live at Budokan is the great [TS]

00:26:59   introduction to judas priest because [TS]

00:27:01   these are live records in name only [TS]

00:27:03   there was just gonna say i wasn't gonna [TS]

00:27:05   look over to like kiss alive those are [TS]

00:27:08   those are three like the tent pole and [TS]

00:27:11   how you love kiss three temple albums [TS]

00:27:14   that were really live albums not live at [TS]

00:27:17   all but they said but if there's crowd [TS]

00:27:19   noise and it makes you feel really epic [TS]

00:27:21   it makes you feel like you're on stage [TS]

00:27:22   with the band and the goat and the the [TS]

00:27:25   person that you love the most is there [TS]

00:27:27   in the in the room and you are you're [TS]

00:27:29   playing your metal solo and they're [TS]

00:27:32   looking at you and saying is never [TS]

00:27:34   should have left you would try to change [TS]

00:27:37   the things that killed our love dr. [TS]

00:27:40   community pride has been a walk so [TS]

00:27:44   strong that I can't get through [TS]

00:27:46   is this really the hand now wow ok so [TS]

00:27:52   its weapons animal magnetism [TS]

00:27:54   I think this is probably a hypnosis [TS]

00:27:56   hypnosis cover [TS]

00:27:58   oh ok what else is happening is a German [TS]

00:28:00   it's the German and designers that they [TS]

00:28:02   did the peter gabriel records like all [TS]

00:28:04   the whack-a-doodle photography based I [TS]

00:28:07   think they did maybe wish you were here [TS]

00:28:09   maybe but anyway a lot of them the [TS]

00:28:11   whack-a-doodle photography based weird [TS]

00:28:13   album covers of the seventies were done [TS]

00:28:15   by this the this couple guys in Germany [TS]

00:28:17   I think you know screaming gasps but [TS]

00:28:19   anyway so we got what we have your half [TS]

00:28:21   of the money we describe this there's a [TS]

00:28:23   beach is that we see that the primary [TS]

00:28:26   thing that we see is the back side of a [TS]

00:28:29   man in looks like tough skins walking on [TS]

00:28:32   a beach drinking beer with his hand in [TS]

00:28:34   his pocket [TS]

00:28:34   I would call those are those lee jeans I [TS]

00:28:38   don't recognize the mark i would say [TS]

00:28:41   they were there [TS]

00:28:42   yes um I don't think they're tough skins [TS]

00:28:45   maybe they are but they're but what's [TS]

00:28:49   interesting is they're brown colored [TS]

00:28:50   jeans and that's that seems very ahead [TS]

00:28:54   that seems a little French to me they do [TS]

00:28:57   you mean I can see a brown gene yeah [TS]

00:28:59   certainly German or French there there [TS]

00:29:01   maybe they're like it's there's almost a [TS]

00:29:03   run lola run field to those jeans [TS]

00:29:06   he's drinking a beer yeah he's got a [TS]

00:29:09   hand [TS]

00:29:10   he's got one is left hand in his back [TS]

00:29:11   pocket it appears to be sunset even [TS]

00:29:14   though he has the brightness of 1120 am [TS]

00:29:16   shining on his ass right yeah he does [TS]

00:29:19   there is some unused there's some [TS]

00:29:20   strange like where did that [TS]

00:29:22   where's that light coming from light [TS]

00:29:24   well i will probably features that [TS]

00:29:26   feature this is the cover art first [TS]

00:29:28   episode there's Doberman Pinscher who [TS]

00:29:30   and then getting its ass the doberman [TS]

00:29:34   pincher is staring at his ass a like [TS]

00:29:36   inexplicably but then I kneeling in a [TS]

00:29:39   kind of i would people I wouldn't [TS]

00:29:41   describe it necessarily as a submission [TS]

00:29:42   putting submissive posture because it's [TS]

00:29:44   a posture [TS]

00:29:45   it's a submissive posture but she has a [TS]

00:29:47   she has a a look that could be described [TS]

00:29:49   as defiant right or there's there's a [TS]

00:29:52   little bit of this little defiance [TS]

00:29:55   interface but their general for shameful [TS]

00:29:56   curiosity [TS]

00:29:57   there's a blonde woman in high waisted [TS]

00:29:59   jeans with the with a like a [TS]

00:30:02   handkerchief blouse tucked in and she is [TS]

00:30:06   kneeling looking up at him and it with [TS]

00:30:08   it with the look that I would describe [TS]

00:30:10   as not admiring but certainly waiting [TS]

00:30:15   for the next wed waiting for a signal [TS]

00:30:17   let's let's call them waiting forcing [TS]

00:30:19   you to think that this would you get a [TS]

00:30:21   different way [TS]

00:30:21   yeah i mean if it was just her weird but [TS]

00:30:24   the fact that the dogs and turn adobe [TS]

00:30:26   staring at this guy [TS]

00:30:27   well she's looking up at him and the [TS]

00:30:29   Dobermans just looking straight at his [TS]

00:30:30   pants that's animal management and and [TS]

00:30:32   so I guess my question is and this was [TS]

00:30:35   so this was the question i had when i [TS]

00:30:36   was when i was 11 or or 12 is his fly [TS]

00:30:40   undone or not [TS]

00:30:42   alright she's not looking at his fly [TS]

00:30:46   area but maybe the dog is maybe the dog [TS]

00:30:49   is looking at is at his unzipped fly [TS]

00:30:53   she seems to just like studiously [TS]

00:30:55   avoiding it right she's making eye [TS]

00:30:57   contact up here right right right she's [TS]

00:31:01   looking she's looking at the she's [TS]

00:31:02   looking at his meat beard yeah and not [TS]

00:31:05   at his underwear area but the dog [TS]

00:31:08   definitely is looking at his underwear [TS]

00:31:10   area [TS]

00:31:11   I've reached a point in life where so [TS]

00:31:12   much I you know I call it sky like the [TS]

00:31:14   dad engineering stage of life we mostly [TS]

00:31:17   think about how something that made how [TS]

00:31:18   much it cost and how it got me [TS]

00:31:20   at all haha i look at this and I'm like [TS]

00:31:22   this is what this was probably mercury [TS]

00:31:24   it was it was a major label that they [TS]

00:31:26   were on and you know there were meetings [TS]

00:31:28   where somebody set aside three to five [TS]

00:31:32   other designs and said this is the one [TS]

00:31:33   we should go with I'm yeah yeah well i'm [TS]

00:31:35   pretty sure that I'm pretty sure it's a [TS]

00:31:37   it this is the inspiration for smell the [TS]

00:31:39   glove and also i bet you there was [TS]

00:31:42   somebody in the room that was like come [TS]

00:31:43   on [TS]

00:31:44   no this is terrible but you know it was [TS]

00:31:46   the seventies there were a lot worse [TS]

00:31:51   like how do you feel about the album [TS]

00:31:53   cover for those that Eric Clapton [TS]

00:31:57   supergroup group that had the oh yeah [TS]

00:32:00   with the girl [TS]

00:32:01   traffic traffic will know it was no [TS]

00:32:03   traffic it was on there is derek and the [TS]

00:32:05   dominos with Layla don't want that the [TS]

00:32:08   prepubescent girl on the cover right [TS]

00:32:09   yeah that's what you mean [TS]

00:32:11   yeah yeah but it was traffic huh was a [TS]

00:32:16   traffic i want to say it's traffic i'll [TS]

00:32:18   find out this it's important [TS]

00:32:20   afterward just who was at the other day [TS]

00:32:23   that said I love listening to john and [TS]

00:32:25   Merlin look at the internet one of the [TS]

00:32:27   great podcast of all time [TS]

00:32:29   what happened on in Berlin looking at [TS]

00:32:31   the internet i'm not you know what I [TS]

00:32:32   just stop looking at the internet i'm [TS]

00:32:33   not even gonna look at it anymore i [TS]

00:32:34   don't even care i see the last thing I [TS]

00:32:36   fight if I can't tell you the name of [TS]

00:32:38   Eric Clapton's dumb super group that had [TS]

00:32:41   the girl on the cover [TS]

00:32:42   then I don't deserve to talk about stuff [TS]

00:32:44   I'm just gonna sit here and talk about [TS]

00:32:47   how these gummy sold shoes that I'm [TS]

00:32:50   wearing seem to pick up hair everywhere [TS]

00:32:53   I get that with mine too and I wonder [TS]

00:32:55   where is all this hair I like his hair [TS]

00:32:57   just on the ground everywhere I go [TS]

00:32:59   hasn't always been there is what really [TS]

00:33:01   noticing this now is the earth carpeted [TS]

00:33:04   with hair in a way that I you have to [TS]

00:33:07   work on Isolde choose to to fully [TS]

00:33:08   comprehend conditions we are yet we have [TS]

00:33:12   an area rug in one room that we all like [TS]

00:33:14   pretty well but it sheds pubes [TS]

00:33:17   it's a the the way the fibers work so so [TS]

00:33:20   like pretty much all the time in our [TS]

00:33:21   house there's stuff floating around the [TS]

00:33:22   kind of looks like a hair [TS]

00:33:23   oh yeah right but it's not quite a hair [TS]

00:33:26   it's more fiber m25 fibers hair like [TS]

00:33:28   thing also what this is the thing what's [TS]

00:33:31   going to happen that's going to be the [TS]

00:33:32   hair that can fix you [TS]

00:33:34   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:33:37   brought to you by our very good pals at [TS]

00:33:39   Squarespace you know Squarespace they [TS]

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00:34:38   for Squarespace and you're ready to pull [TS]

00:34:40   the trigger [TS]

00:34:40   please make sure to use the very special [TS]

00:34:42   offer code super training that will get [TS]

00:34:44   you ten percent off your first purchase [TS]

00:34:45   it also shows your support for rock on [TS]

00:34:48   the line so thank you very much to [TS]

00:34:50   squarespace further continued support of [TS]

00:34:52   Roderick on the line [TS]

00:34:53   Squarespace build it beautiful right [TS]

00:34:57   you're gonna they're gonna pull that out [TS]

00:34:58   there like that this is it is this has a [TS]

00:35:00   very distinctive signature and it was [TS]

00:35:03   found to definitely mission man we had [TS]

00:35:05   no problem whatsoever together in know [TS]

00:35:07   what I would just have to describe it as [TS]

00:35:09   a multitude of individual curly black [TS]

00:35:13   hair up I'm just gonna bring a couple [TS]

00:35:16   pounds and that you peruse at your [TS]

00:35:18   southern lawyer is so much better than [TS]

00:35:22   Bob Odenkirk southern lawyer [TS]

00:35:25   come on the time stealing it from but [TS]

00:35:27   yours is better you can sell it and [TS]

00:35:29   improve it you really think it's i'm [TS]

00:35:31   also i'm bringing in a lot of Foghorn [TS]

00:35:32   Leghorn but just I mean just enough like [TS]

00:35:36   there's there's a there's some Matlock [TS]

00:35:38   in it just you take it to the place [TS]

00:35:41   where where Bob is trying you know Bob's [TS]

00:35:44   Bob southern lawyer is [TS]

00:35:47   is great in part because it's so bad [TS]

00:35:50   it's like Peter Dinklage's British [TS]

00:35:53   accent haha that's interesting you say [TS]

00:35:56   that we talked about him a little bit [TS]

00:35:57   once before I think but I i agree i part [TS]

00:36:00   of what some of the stuff with his that [TS]

00:36:01   makes me laugh the most is when he [TS]

00:36:03   dances poorly sings poorly doesn't bad [TS]

00:36:08   accents of like a horrible German accent [TS]

00:36:10   or when he just he just yells [TS]

00:36:12   inappropriately in a way that sounds [TS]

00:36:13   ridiculous it's always funny to me [TS]

00:36:16   yeah there's no you never have it you [TS]

00:36:18   never know fully like how much Bob [TS]

00:36:21   Odenkirk is conscious of the fact that [TS]

00:36:24   he is he is not quite achieving what he [TS]

00:36:29   imagines he's a cheap you know that's [TS]

00:36:30   what I love people who come out of you [TS]

00:36:32   know improv and sketch comedy is like [TS]

00:36:33   there's so much of like you got where [TS]

00:36:36   you are because you through so much shit [TS]

00:36:38   a wall there and like you figured out [TS]

00:36:40   what was funny sure but then you also [TS]

00:36:41   learn to just ride it out if it wasn't [TS]

00:36:43   funny and find a way to make it funny [TS]

00:36:45   yeah right and that's exactly what [TS]

00:36:46   happens on well on their sketch show you [TS]

00:36:50   know they're read they're doing a new [TS]

00:36:51   bob and david i know i saw some photos [TS]

00:36:53   of the very elderly cast know i hope it [TS]

00:36:57   will be good you know he's been so busy [TS]

00:36:59   he did tim and eric he does the does the [TS]

00:37:01   this all show and what you watchin that [TS]

00:37:03   we watching the better call saul yeah I [TS]

00:37:05   still I still am watching it [TS]

00:37:08   um you know the pace is so different [TS]

00:37:12   that's what i hear ya and it's very it's [TS]

00:37:17   enjoyable but like that the the [TS]

00:37:19   challenge for me was always one bob was [TS]

00:37:24   on the screen my history with him as a [TS]

00:37:28   as a fan always took me out of breaking [TS]

00:37:33   bad a little bit like trying to really [TS]

00:37:35   have Bob Odenkirk be a serious character [TS]

00:37:37   and not because all right now that I [TS]

00:37:39   just go hey look it's bob odenkirk yeah [TS]

00:37:41   and-and-and like there were times when [TS]

00:37:44   he played when he played the role of [TS]

00:37:46   someone who is genuinely scared that i [TS]

00:37:49   felt that i was i was absorbed into into [TS]

00:37:53   the seen her but there were also i mean [TS]

00:37:55   a lot of the lot of the campus of his [TS]

00:37:57   character was just right in line with [TS]

00:38:00   the camp [TS]

00:38:01   miss a bob odenkirk enough that I was I [TS]

00:38:03   was I was I knew I was watching a guy i [TS]

00:38:05   already knew you had such a good greasy [TS]

00:38:08   character [TS]

00:38:09   well now so now I'd better call saul [TS]

00:38:11   like with him as the center i can't i [TS]

00:38:16   can't decide where I am I can't decide [TS]

00:38:18   like eclipse [TS]

00:38:20   I'm not far enough into it i guess to [TS]

00:38:21   know where I stand [TS]

00:38:23   which brings us to our next update [TS]

00:38:24   segment which is you must be very busy [TS]

00:38:27   right now I'm going to let me say i [TS]

00:38:31   occupy it seems like you must be very [TS]

00:38:32   occupied i'm going to a lot of task [TS]

00:38:34   forces because had his task force these [TS]

00:38:38   tasks force i'm going to a lot of tasks [TS]

00:38:41   for sigh yeah I am I am busy and you [TS]

00:38:46   know why but that but there is still a [TS]

00:38:49   very there's there's still a complete [TS]

00:38:52   the the major component of what i'm [TS]

00:38:55   doing is still formulating thinking [TS]

00:38:59   about stuff you know like the the [TS]

00:39:02   running around and and and attending [TS]

00:39:06   pie-eating contests and stuff like that [TS]

00:39:10   hasn't that hasn't kicked into high gear [TS]

00:39:13   yet because i still am trying to tackle [TS]

00:39:18   the big issues in a way and and and and [TS]

00:39:22   like put forward up a real program and [TS]

00:39:27   that is really satisfying challenging [TS]

00:39:29   work but it's not but eh but you know [TS]

00:39:35   it's also like kind of fraud [TS]

00:39:36   I feel like I'm i feel like i have a big [TS]

00:39:39   paper due [TS]

00:39:40   oh yeah and and ended like was strangely [TS]

00:39:46   there's no clear deadline in some ways [TS]

00:39:50   it was due three weeks ago and in some [TS]

00:39:53   ways you know you can head it sort of [TS]

00:39:55   one of those handed in when you want a [TS]

00:39:57   butt and you're not sure how you're [TS]

00:39:59   going to be graded you've got the [TS]

00:40:01   world's most passive aggressive teacher [TS]

00:40:02   welcome tell anyone it's gonna that's [TS]

00:40:03   right that's right you tell me what [TS]

00:40:05   grade do you think you know it's gonna [TS]

00:40:06   be good very good [TS]

00:40:08   so so i'm i'm i'm busy a [TS]

00:40:12   but I'm also you know I'm also like [TS]

00:40:16   crunching a lot of data because I really [TS]

00:40:20   do believe that I don't want to but I'm [TS]

00:40:22   not somebody that's just running for [TS]

00:40:25   office as a as a piece of theater and [TS]

00:40:27   the more I see other people running for [TS]

00:40:30   office I realize like a lot of it is a [TS]

00:40:32   lot of them are even the ones that are [TS]

00:40:34   professionals you know it's it's it's [TS]

00:40:37   all pieces seem some it's cynical to [TS]

00:40:39   point this out but it seems like there [TS]

00:40:41   could potentially be an advantage to [TS]

00:40:43   doing that the opposite of what you're [TS]

00:40:45   doing something very different which is [TS]

00:40:47   going in with your placard already you [TS]

00:40:50   know filled out in permanent marker and [TS]

00:40:52   on the wooden stick and you're carrying [TS]

00:40:53   around you know i mean it seems like [TS]

00:40:54   there could be a benefit to you of [TS]

00:40:56   having a position however well or not [TS]

00:40:59   reasoned from the very beginning you [TS]

00:41:01   come out of the chute with this like [TS]

00:41:03   specifics that may have no relationship [TS]

00:41:05   to anything it's actually going on so I [TS]

00:41:07   would applaud you for staying open to [TS]

00:41:09   figure out what it is you're going to [TS]

00:41:10   say I think it's a good thing [TS]

00:41:12   yeah it is it's a good thing but it but [TS]

00:41:14   it goes it goes against expectations [TS]

00:41:17   everybody in the everybody that it that [TS]

00:41:21   has been doing this for a long time [TS]

00:41:22   everyone that's kind of site because the [TS]

00:41:24   only people that know that there's even [TS]

00:41:25   a seattle city council election coming [TS]

00:41:28   there's only 500 people in all of [TS]

00:41:29   Seattle that even know it's happening [TS]

00:41:31   right because who follows who follows [TS]

00:41:35   local elections six to nine months out [TS]

00:41:37   what else cranky didn't say that i did [TS]

00:41:39   and so so once the initial announcement [TS]

00:41:44   kind of went around and everybody was [TS]

00:41:47   like wow that's cool people immediately [TS]

00:41:50   want desperately to forget about it for [TS]

00:41:52   several months and and they're feeling [TS]

00:41:55   about it is like well i'll look at that [TS]

00:41:56   again when it's closer to the election [TS]

00:41:57   so the only people that are really [TS]

00:42:00   invested in it and I said to stay at [TS]

00:42:02   this stage are people better that [TS]

00:42:04   considering either their profession or [TS]

00:42:05   there or there you know application and [TS]

00:42:10   so I'm in a lot of conversations with [TS]

00:42:14   people who talk to a lot of candidates [TS]

00:42:17   and they all have this expectation of [TS]

00:42:20   like well what's your one issue what's [TS]

00:42:21   the thing they got you mad that made you [TS]

00:42:22   want to run for office and I keep saying [TS]

00:42:26   I think that the foot I think the basic [TS]

00:42:28   premise that the only people that run [TS]

00:42:30   for office are people who got mad about [TS]

00:42:31   one issue is what a horrible framing [TS]

00:42:34   device but that's the thing that I i [TS]

00:42:36   feel i feel like that's a flawed premise [TS]

00:42:38   and they look at me with a kind of look [TS]

00:42:41   that is like either you can hear the [TS]

00:42:45   gears turning and they're like okay so [TS]

00:42:48   you're the you're the intellectual and [TS]

00:42:52   I'm like well I'm just somebody who [TS]

00:42:56   believes in democracy and I feel like if [TS]

00:43:01   your city council is always populated by [TS]

00:43:04   people who got mad at the dog catcher [TS]

00:43:06   and so they had then they ran for dog [TS]

00:43:08   catcher and then they were the angry dog [TS]

00:43:11   catcher who was mad at City Hall about [TS]

00:43:15   about the dog catching and then they get [TS]

00:43:18   elected to City Hall then you have been [TS]

00:43:20   you have a city council is populated by [TS]

00:43:22   by people that are mad and they don't [TS]

00:43:24   have a very broad sense of how things [TS]

00:43:27   work but they they were able to they [TS]

00:43:31   were able to yell about the one thing [TS]

00:43:33   that they're mad about and get several [TS]

00:43:35   thousand people to say like yeah that is [TS]

00:43:38   people who agreed that was the thing [TS]

00:43:39   that he mad about and then all of a [TS]

00:43:41   sudden you know that's it that's who we [TS]

00:43:43   sent to public office right the people [TS]

00:43:45   that are like I don't believe that this [TS]

00:43:47   that the schools should be teaching sex [TS]

00:43:50   education and that's why I'm running for [TS]

00:43:52   local representative well and it makes [TS]

00:43:55   me think nothing about comic books but [TS]

00:43:57   it makes me think a little bit like you [TS]

00:43:59   know we've already got a Batman there's [TS]

00:44:00   already one guy that had a bad [TS]

00:44:02   experience with crime and decided to [TS]

00:44:04   become a crime fighter i would not want [TS]

00:44:06   every person serving in the police [TS]

00:44:08   department to think that there Batman [TS]

00:44:09   you don't mean like there should be [TS]

00:44:11   something beyond and like revenge which [TS]

00:44:14   is what you're describing what you're [TS]

00:44:15   describing in some ways is having a chip [TS]

00:44:17   on your shoulder it isn't just that like [TS]

00:44:18   oh my kid didn't get health care [TS]

00:44:19   coverage or something [TS]

00:44:20   you're talking about something where [TS]

00:44:21   like basically i think what you're [TS]

00:44:23   describing is someone who has decided to [TS]

00:44:26   turn a personal grudge into a career [TS]

00:44:28   well and then at some point along the [TS]

00:44:30   way a person sidles up to them and they [TS]

00:44:33   say hey you know this thing about dog [TS]

00:44:34   catchers that you're so mad about [TS]

00:44:36   here's how dog catchers actually get [TS]

00:44:37   elected and it's not anything [TS]

00:44:39   like you're saying right and then that [TS]

00:44:42   person has a choice either recant and [TS]

00:44:47   learn about things or cynically smile [TS]

00:44:52   and say that's cool [TS]

00:44:54   yelling about dog catchers is what got [TS]

00:44:56   me elected and so now that i know better [TS]

00:44:59   i'm still going to yell about dog [TS]

00:45:01   catchers because that still resonates [TS]

00:45:03   with people and I think that's what [TS]

00:45:05   happens more often than not it's why you [TS]

00:45:07   get these its way to get politicians who [TS]

00:45:09   are like alright well just between us we [TS]

00:45:12   know how things work but I'm gonna walk [TS]

00:45:15   out there on the big stage and start [TS]

00:45:17   talking about a talking in these terms [TS]

00:45:21   that I know animates an audience and [TS]

00:45:23   that's infuriating and it has to be like [TS]

00:45:26   it's a certain amount of misdirection [TS]

00:45:27   I'm not lying in this direction to bring [TS]

00:45:29   it around to that point that you know [TS]

00:45:30   test well for example well in and and at [TS]

00:45:34   a certain point everybody wants a [TS]

00:45:35   solution [TS]

00:45:36   everybody wants to hear solutions and [TS]

00:45:37   nobody wants to hear [TS]

00:45:39   well solutions are complicated and every [TS]

00:45:43   time you apply every time you pass a new [TS]

00:45:47   law that that you hope solve this [TS]

00:45:49   problem [TS]

00:45:50   it creates for new potential problems [TS]

00:45:53   right it's just like you can't if you if [TS]

00:45:56   you look at the history if you look at [TS]

00:45:57   our history and you think like well [TS]

00:46:00   let's talk about some laws that solve [TS]

00:46:01   some problems when you can see quite a [TS]

00:46:03   few that have but you can also see tons [TS]

00:46:06   and tons of laws that like prohibition [TS]

00:46:10   solve the problem created 50 new [TS]

00:46:13   problems right and there are lesser [TS]

00:46:16   examples but lesser only because they [TS]

00:46:20   are less ridiculous but they created [TS]

00:46:22   problem upon problem so I'm I'm learning [TS]

00:46:25   that too i'm going to meetings where [TS]

00:46:27   people are pounding on desks and saying [TS]

00:46:29   we have a housing crisis and we do have [TS]

00:46:33   a housing crisis and then they say and [TS]

00:46:35   here's the solution and I go wow that [TS]

00:46:38   was easy up [TS]

00:46:40   whoa i'm close the file on that one um [TS]

00:46:42   that's really interesting because the [TS]

00:46:44   housing crisis is is a you know is a [TS]

00:46:47   multi-tenant rolled animal and that [TS]

00:46:49   doesn't make it 10 here's the other [TS]

00:46:51   thing [TS]

00:46:51   then there's a there's a separate part [TS]

00:46:54   of the political class that understands [TS]

00:46:56   those problems are multi ten-year-old [TS]

00:46:58   animals and they are the like the Rye [TS]

00:47:01   incremental lists who say well there are [TS]

00:47:06   no if there are no easy solutions and so [TS]

00:47:09   we just have to like double down on [TS]

00:47:12   unimaginative small-scale incremental [TS]

00:47:18   little-little process-based revisions to [TS]

00:47:25   current policy so like a professional [TS]

00:47:28   politicians approach exactly and so you [TS]

00:47:31   get either demagogues or you get a you [TS]

00:47:34   get people that are like fully vested in [TS]

00:47:36   the process and don't have they don't [TS]

00:47:39   believe that imagination can work and [TS]

00:47:43   somewhere between those two places we [TS]

00:47:45   were were in this strange world where no [TS]

00:47:48   progress really happens but we have a [TS]

00:47:50   lot of people in public office that are [TS]

00:47:52   talking about we need to support Israel [TS]

00:47:55   because that's what Jesus wants our why [TS]

00:47:57   do you know like there are there are a [TS]

00:47:59   thousand thousand examples even on the [TS]

00:48:01   liberal side and so I you know I like I [TS]

00:48:06   feel like stepping into that arena and [TS]

00:48:11   being unwilling to speak exclusively in [TS]

00:48:14   bullet points but also being unwilling [TS]

00:48:17   to get chastised over and over for [TS]

00:48:21   having to having to adventurous a idea [TS]

00:48:25   kit for you know like i have started to [TS]

00:48:30   seriously talk about gondolas here to [TS]

00:48:34   people who know about that that's [TS]

00:48:36   awesome [TS]

00:48:36   and there are a lot of transit people [TS]

00:48:39   who are really really smart and a lot of [TS]

00:48:42   them are like haha gondolas it's a [TS]

00:48:44   really great idea we have done some [TS]

00:48:47   studies on them but the problem is that [TS]

00:48:49   you could never get it's the voters to [TS]

00:48:54   go along with it with a big dream [TS]

00:48:56   project like that and my reply to that [TS]

00:49:00   is like imagine the people sitting in [TS]

00:49:03   the room the first time someone on [TS]

00:49:05   failed a drawing of the space needle [TS]

00:49:07   that they intended to build and said [TS]

00:49:10   here's the here's a tower we want to [TS]

00:49:11   build and people look at it and go what [TS]

00:49:16   for what is it it's a tower [TS]

00:49:19   what good is it it's good for going up [TS]

00:49:22   in it looks really expensive [TS]

00:49:25   oh it will be why would we build this [TS]

00:49:28   because it's cool [TS]

00:49:29   uh I mean can you picture the scene i'm [TS]

00:49:35   thinking about exactly what you're [TS]

00:49:36   describing which is that it [TS]

00:49:38   it's like we can't even have this [TS]

00:49:40   conversation because that's not a [TS]

00:49:41   building [TS]

00:49:42   yeah right but sort of any we're saying [TS]

00:49:44   like what you're proposing [TS]

00:49:45   I mean it's like eating a plate of [TS]

00:49:46   mashed potatoes and calling it a college [TS]

00:49:49   and yet they built the space needle [TS]

00:49:52   right and and what when I think about [TS]

00:49:54   that you know you think about the [TS]

00:49:56   interstate highway system in the United [TS]

00:49:58   States the original name of the [TS]

00:50:01   interstate highway system was something [TS]

00:50:03   like the interstate roads and defense [TS]

00:50:07   escape routes highway system you know [TS]

00:50:12   like a big part of of the justification [TS]

00:50:15   for building the interstates was that it [TS]

00:50:18   would enable us to move troops around [TS]

00:50:20   faster in case America was invaded by [TS]

00:50:24   the Russians as a second reason they [TS]

00:50:26   made the internet really and and also if [TS]

00:50:29   we had an well if there was a little bit [TS]

00:50:32   of a warning from the Civil Defence [TS]

00:50:35   horns we could get in our 57 Chevys and [TS]

00:50:39   drive out of the city and escape the [TS]

00:50:40   nuclear nuclear attack that was coming [TS]

00:50:42   right like that was part of how we sold [TS]

00:50:46   what ended up being a 400 billion dollar [TS]

00:50:49   nationwide project like oh you'll be [TS]

00:50:51   able to get out of the town to escape [TS]

00:50:55   the bombs and also we can move troops [TS]

00:50:57   around and also it'll be great on [TS]

00:50:59   Saturday afternoons you can get out to [TS]

00:51:01   the country huh [TS]

00:51:03   that night and nothing that like this [TS]

00:51:04   would become the backbone of how we [TS]

00:51:06   built the economy with trucking or or [TS]

00:51:09   how it opened up you know like he is [TS]

00:51:12   first like practical travel around the [TS]

00:51:14   United States by middle-class people i [TS]

00:51:16   mean think about that think about what [TS]

00:51:18   is there anyone in America today [TS]

00:51:20   listening to this program that will [TS]

00:51:22   spend some part of today on an [TS]

00:51:23   interstate highway and and that's not [TS]

00:51:26   what it's for her and to build those [TS]

00:51:28   things we tore down tens of thousands of [TS]

00:51:31   houses like destroyed entire [TS]

00:51:34   neighborhoods and so when people are [TS]

00:51:37   like well you know there's no way we can [TS]

00:51:39   muster the collective will to to start [TS]

00:51:45   moving away from a fossil fuel based [TS]

00:51:47   economy for instance it's like are you [TS]

00:51:49   kidding me [TS]

00:51:50   it's happening it's happening anyway and [TS]

00:51:55   so the question is how do you get ahead [TS]

00:51:57   of it you know how do you do it [TS]

00:51:59   correctly [TS]

00:52:00   instead of doing it accidentally or or [TS]

00:52:03   by happenstance and in seattle it's the [TS]

00:52:06   same thing I mean yeah [TS]

00:52:07   gondolas would gondolas sound like a [TS]

00:52:10   ridiculous idea right they sound like a [TS]

00:52:14   joke idea that a day that the weird rock [TS]

00:52:17   candidate came up it comes out that way [TS]

00:52:22   and shut that Seattle is is a city built [TS]

00:52:28   on seven hills right we're basically an [TS]

00:52:31   alpine resort in summer and we keep [TS]

00:52:36   talking about bike lanes we keep talking [TS]

00:52:38   about all these methods of moving people [TS]

00:52:40   around and in in that conversation [TS]

00:52:42   there's never any acknowledgement that [TS]

00:52:47   that everywhere you would want to go [TS]

00:52:50   involves going up a huge fucking Hill [TS]

00:52:53   and so it's like we need to get more [TS]

00:52:56   bikes [TS]

00:52:57   well okay but the only people that can [TS]

00:52:58   ride bikes in seattle are like super [TS]

00:53:00   athletes and if you if you go down to [TS]

00:53:03   Portland Oregon which is largely a flat [TS]

00:53:05   City you see people riding their bikes [TS]

00:53:08   and they are in there you know they're [TS]

00:53:10   like dressed nicely they are peddling [TS]

00:53:12   slowly they have a little basket with [TS]

00:53:15   some bread and maybe a dog in it and [TS]

00:53:19   they're peddling on there nice flat wide [TS]

00:53:21   streets to go from one flat place to the [TS]

00:53:24   next and in seattle if you are downtown [TS]

00:53:28   and want to go to Capitol Hill which as [TS]

00:53:30   the crow flies is [TS]

00:53:31   quarter of a mile over you basically [TS]

00:53:35   have to be dressed like your writing the [TS]

00:53:39   Tour de France and you know you're not [TS]

00:53:43   gonna you're not gonna get on your bike [TS]

00:53:45   with your Sudan right up to Capitol Hill [TS]

00:53:47   for lunch and ride back down you would [TS]

00:53:49   be you would be drenched in sweat and [TS]

00:53:51   you haven't mentioned the weather let [TS]

00:53:53   alone the rain so I do believe that we [TS]

00:53:55   should have bikes everywhere but if [TS]

00:53:57   there were a network of gone to lowes [TS]

00:54:00   you can put your bike in the gondola [TS]

00:54:02   take the gondola up to the top of the [TS]

00:54:05   hill ride your bike around up there [TS]

00:54:07   ride your bike downhill which is fun [TS]

00:54:10   everybody likes that and then at night [TS]

00:54:12   when it's time to go home put your bike [TS]

00:54:14   on the gondola back up to the top of the [TS]

00:54:16   hill [TS]

00:54:17   it's not crazy it's it just sounded it [TS]

00:54:22   in a way it sounds too fun to be real [TS]

00:54:25   right it sounds too fun little it sounds [TS]

00:54:28   whimsical it sounds whimsical until you [TS]

00:54:31   picture like oh let's imagine the city [TS]

00:54:34   and fifty years and we've got like trams [TS]

00:54:36   running up in a funicular up this street [TS]

00:54:38   and it doesn't have to be a fancy [TS]

00:54:40   funicular it's a funicular the hop on [TS]

00:54:42   the throw your bike on it it takes you [TS]

00:54:44   up the steep hill it's just [TS]

00:54:47   infrastructure its infrastructure that [TS]

00:54:50   that actually is aware that it that [TS]

00:54:53   reflects the fact that this is a really [TS]

00:54:55   hilly town but you but so I'm talking to [TS]

00:54:59   professional people and I'm saying [TS]

00:55:01   listen this sounds like a job sounds [TS]

00:55:02   like a joke idea from the weird rock [TS]

00:55:04   candidate but listen I'm serious about [TS]

00:55:05   this [TS]

00:55:06   I think it's a good idea and and you can [TS]

00:55:08   just you watch them try [TS]

00:55:12   I mean when it's their job in a way but [TS]

00:55:15   on the other hand like they struggle to [TS]

00:55:17   find reasons why it's a why it they [TS]

00:55:20   never are trying to find reasons why [TS]

00:55:21   it's a bad idea they're always trying to [TS]

00:55:23   find reasons why it can never happen [TS]

00:55:24   when you must you must to some people [TS]

00:55:26   let's be honest you the weird right [TS]

00:55:28   candidate you must sound like a flat [TS]

00:55:30   earth person or like historical [TS]

00:55:34   revisionists or something [TS]

00:55:35   well in the sense that to some people [TS]

00:55:37   you know you're gonna have like the I [TS]

00:55:40   can't even conversations [TS]

00:55:41   we're just gonna be like how do i I mean [TS]

00:55:44   why are you so are you actually saying [TS]

00:55:46   this seriously I mean should we are [TS]

00:55:48   where Dracula fans are right Fang should [TS]

00:55:50   we should we all like you know get face [TS]

00:55:52   tattoos anything else like that's it's [TS]

00:55:54   so outside the pale of what people think [TS]

00:55:57   of as a conventional approach to such a [TS]

00:55:59   boring and giant problem right right [TS]

00:56:03   well and and and and what I say to them [TS]

00:56:05   is 100 years ago in 1915 there were [TS]

00:56:09   still horse carts horse-drawn carts all [TS]

00:56:11   over the streets of New York City and [TS]

00:56:14   seattle and san francisco and i'm sure [TS]

00:56:17   at that time there were all kinds of [TS]

00:56:20   people in power and just the [TS]

00:56:23   conventional wisdom was well there will [TS]

00:56:26   always be horses in the city [TS]

00:56:28   there have always been horses in the [TS]

00:56:30   city before meeting to scale up around [TS]

00:56:33   horses sure the motor car is coming but [TS]

00:56:36   how I mean how do you take the horse [TS]

00:56:39   away from the small independent farmer [TS]

00:56:41   but I be that's going to be [TS]

00:56:43   unnecessarily disruptive to our existing [TS]

00:56:45   infrastructure because what we have now [TS]

00:56:47   works the horses are finally replace [TS]

00:56:49   them right it isn't that part of it is [TS]

00:56:50   like you get so stuck in this idea what [TS]

00:56:52   kind of problem we're trying to solve [TS]

00:56:53   that you don't even open up the door to [TS]

00:56:56   going [TS]

00:56:56   look at--look at Chicago and Chicago [TS]

00:56:58   revolutionized around the idea of not [TS]

00:57:00   having literal tons of horse shit they [TS]

00:57:02   had to throw a river every day [TS]

00:57:04   it changed the entire sanitation system [TS]

00:57:06   yeah well and imagine the last person in [TS]

00:57:09   seattle to build a barn downtown to feed [TS]

00:57:16   and care for horses during the day right [TS]

00:57:18   there was a last person who is like i'm [TS]

00:57:22   investing in a horse care products [TS]

00:57:26   candidates and had to listen to big barn [TS]

00:57:27   right all right big stables like listen [TS]

00:57:32   stables are part of our economy horses [TS]

00:57:35   how you know how is a poor man going to [TS]

00:57:37   make it into town he's gonna ride a [TS]

00:57:40   horse and that's always going to be true [TS]

00:57:42   there was like my family's made money [TS]

00:57:43   from owning this particular wooden [TS]

00:57:45   structure for 65 right well and so 10 [TS]

00:57:49   years later 1925 I mean not a lot of [TS]

00:57:53   horses on the streets any [TS]

00:57:55   more it is it has completely switched [TS]

00:57:57   right to change it i utterly changed i [TS]

00:58:00   mean yet a different kind of problem but [TS]

00:58:01   like I don't know I'm so enjoy enough to [TS]

00:58:02   be able to fucking malcolm gladwell but [TS]

00:58:04   like talk about improving quality of [TS]

00:58:05   life and conditions [TS]

00:58:07   I mean just the stories you hear about [TS]

00:58:08   what it was like to live in chicago new [TS]

00:58:11   york london let me there was literally [TS]

00:58:13   horse shit everywhere [TS]

00:58:15   well and so our contemporary equivalent [TS]

00:58:17   to that is people driving their own cars [TS]

00:58:23   right right people are bad at driving [TS]

00:58:28   you're not here if you like in your [TS]

00:58:31   platform you and I have been talking [TS]

00:58:32   about this since time began this podcast [TS]

00:58:34   driving is one of these these strange [TS]

00:58:39   things that seems simple enough that [TS]

00:58:42   everybody believes that they are really [TS]

00:58:44   good at it if they haven't died yet they [TS]

00:58:45   must be great at it and yet it is very [TS]

00:58:48   difficult to do well and and almost no [TS]

00:58:53   one doesn't well so we've been living in [TS]

00:58:55   an era for a long time where everybody [TS]

00:58:57   drives their own vehicle and it results [TS]

00:59:01   in tens of thousands of deaths [TS]

00:59:02   incredible waste and inefficiency total [TS]

00:59:06   gridlock and it is going away it's going [TS]

00:59:11   away in our lifetimes and when driving [TS]

00:59:15   your own car around goes away it's going [TS]

00:59:19   to change everything [TS]

00:59:21   it's going to change the conversation [TS]

00:59:22   about about every aspect of the city and [TS]

00:59:27   what's cool about it is that it doesn't [TS]

00:59:31   mean that cars are going away just [TS]

00:59:33   human-piloted cars are going away and [TS]

00:59:38   without human pilots cars [TS]

00:59:43   I mean can be cars can be constructed [TS]

00:59:46   without all this weight of safety [TS]

00:59:51   devices because they're all going to be [TS]

00:59:52   controlled by GPS they'll never ever [TS]

00:59:54   touch one another again they can be [TS]

00:59:57   small and light and quick [TS]

00:59:57   small and light and quick [TS]

01:00:00   and battery-powered and quiet and they [TS]

01:00:02   can move smoothly around the city and [TS]

01:00:05   all of a sudden you realize a gridlock [TS]

01:00:07   isn't because there are too many people [TS]

01:00:10   have seen the graphics for what it would [TS]

01:00:11   look like if all if it was all [TS]

01:00:14   self-driving cars at an intersection [TS]

01:00:17   you seem like what how insane in a good [TS]

01:00:20   way it could be where they just go [TS]

01:00:22   zooming panning don't let you don't need [TS]

01:00:24   signs right you just you just need a [TS]

01:00:27   little bit of the kind of basic probably [TS]

01:00:29   chunking that your phone could do at [TS]

01:00:31   this point just direct people into the [TS]

01:00:33   direct the cars into the right place and [TS]

01:00:35   so so you could quadruple the capacity [TS]

01:00:39   of the roads and everybody moves like 10 [TS]

01:00:43   times faster like there is the the roads [TS]

01:00:47   aren't the problem the problem is the [TS]

01:00:49   people pilots right right and and that's [TS]

01:00:52   coming really soon like and and if we're [TS]

01:00:56   not you know nobody else running for the [TS]

01:00:58   seattle city council is even heard of [TS]

01:00:59   the internet right let alone [TS]

01:01:01   self-driving cars right there still how [TS]

01:01:04   how many orders of magnitude exaggerated [TS]

01:01:07   is that it's not you're saying it's not [TS]

01:01:08   a focus [TS]

01:01:09   it's not it's not a focus there is still [TS]

01:01:12   you know at the lettuce at the local [TS]

01:01:14   level of government there's still a lot [TS]

01:01:16   of suspicions about technology right [TS]

01:01:20   technology is still regarded as [TS]

01:01:22   primarily a surveillance tool like [TS]

01:01:26   cities are using it to to collect data [TS]

01:01:30   and nobody wants in a privacy is is an [TS]

01:01:35   issue at the city level in a big way and [TS]

01:01:40   don't you know then that this whole [TS]

01:01:41   question of like the cops were body cams [TS]

01:01:44   well wait a minute does that mean when a [TS]

01:01:46   cop comes into my house and talk to me [TS]

01:01:47   in the middle of the night about my [TS]

01:01:49   crying child that that video is going to [TS]

01:01:51   write it uploaded to the internet [TS]

01:01:53   tomorrow you know there there's a lot of [TS]

01:01:56   confusion about that angle [TS]

01:02:00   yeah but there's not a lot of [TS]

01:02:01   understanding that the internet right [TS]

01:02:04   now like we've been looking at the [TS]

01:02:07   internet since its inception as a kind [TS]

01:02:09   of like won't be great one day when this [TS]

01:02:11   is like better than [TS]

01:02:12   little TV and very few people even still [TS]

01:02:17   are looking at the Internet in terms of [TS]

01:02:19   no no the internet is going to be it's [TS]

01:02:23   about to explode in terms of usefulness [TS]

01:02:27   as we use it to connect everything to [TS]

01:02:32   everything and when that happens the [TS]

01:02:36   usefulness of everything will go up [TS]

01:02:38   because will be because we will talk to [TS]

01:02:42   be talking about integrated systems [TS]

01:02:44   rather than these siloed inefficient at [TS]

01:02:49   like work duplicating garbage piles and [TS]

01:02:55   you know at 1.i when I picture Matt [TS]

01:02:58   Howie on his bike looking at is Apple [TS]

01:03:01   watch trying to get his coffee maker to [TS]

01:03:03   work and he's like I downloaded for [TS]

01:03:07   coffee maker apps to my new iphone and [TS]

01:03:10   it's not syncing up with my you know [TS]

01:03:13   with my electric razor but he's like [TS]

01:03:16   he's at the bleeding edge of other thing [TS]

01:03:20   that is going to happen at a municipal [TS]

01:03:22   scale right right because we're also [TS]

01:03:25   write on on the cusp of I mean it's [TS]

01:03:29   happening right solar energy finally is [TS]

01:03:31   penciling out I'll man the graphs on [TS]

01:03:33   this stuff are nuts and even contain i [TS]

01:03:35   saw at you place the same graph i did [TS]

01:03:37   about amount that can be generated [TS]

01:03:39   versus cost per unit generated ya and [TS]

01:03:43   the last I guess 10 or 15 years it's [TS]

01:03:45   completely everything I thought I mean [TS]

01:03:47   to me solar energy number 1 i'm not [TS]

01:03:49   growing up right Jimmy Carter well huh [TS]

01:03:52   number one soul energy is probably one [TS]

01:03:54   of the greatest no-brainers we could [TS]

01:03:57   ever have [TS]

01:03:57   but very important number two it is [TS]

01:03:59   prohibitively expensive to do even just [TS]

01:04:02   like heat or water right when i was in [TS]

01:04:04   college you could you could get a water [TS]

01:04:06   heater but it was very costly and now [TS]

01:04:08   today i'll try to find the graph we [TS]

01:04:10   probably know I mean it's completely [TS]

01:04:11   bananas which you can do now 44 less [TS]

01:04:13   than twenty thousand dollars [TS]

01:04:14   well and and you know so we're so we're [TS]

01:04:18   across the threshold ever uh where solar [TS]

01:04:21   energy is it is as cheap as as other [TS]

01:04:25   forms [TS]

01:04:26   or were they come I mean comparable I [TS]

01:04:29   mean given there's no longer smell in [TS]

01:04:30   here shine million things to say i wanna [TS]

01:04:32   interrupt but there's so much about like [TS]

01:04:34   what you trade off to get there and how [TS]

01:04:35   much you're willing just to get away [TS]

01:04:37   from your dumb idea of in order to do [TS]

01:04:39   the thing I need to do we replace a [TS]

01:04:41   horse with a car everybody's a car with [TS]

01:04:43   a rocket stop thinking about it that way [TS]

01:04:45   start thinking about in terms of what [TS]

01:04:47   we're actually trying to accomplish stop [TS]

01:04:48   thinking of the internet is facebook and [TS]

01:04:50   start thinking about it as electricity [TS]

01:04:51   and suddenly everything starts to change [TS]

01:04:53   and and I mean that will shut up after [TS]

01:04:55   this but like I i really think there's a [TS]

01:04:57   one of our biggest problems is something [TS]

01:04:58   I mention you're facing is everybody [TS]

01:05:00   likes to either think that somebody's [TS]

01:05:02   being practical or ideological that [TS]

01:05:04   either have an axe to grind or there or [TS]

01:05:06   there just honestly trying to do the [TS]

01:05:07   right thing and you tell so much by in [TS]

01:05:09   that case somebody like well that's [TS]

01:05:10   great ideologically will just replace [TS]

01:05:12   everything with solar and then we'll [TS]

01:05:13   just charge ten times as much that'll be [TS]

01:05:14   great it's like now stop thinking at [TS]

01:05:16   these extreme ends of the spectrum and [TS]

01:05:18   and look at how for the future [TS]

01:05:20   quote-unquote actually works which is it [TS]

01:05:21   never turns out the way anybody expected [TS]

01:05:23   because we can only see it through the [TS]

01:05:25   lens looking backwards right open your [TS]

01:05:27   mind up to what could happen in 25 years [TS]

01:05:29   rather than obsessing what didn't happen [TS]

01:05:31   in the last 60 years when I keep saying [TS]

01:05:33   that to people like the what we never do [TS]

01:05:36   what we always do is evolve our cities [TS]

01:05:39   in this game of whack-a-mole write a [TS]

01:05:41   guide builds a thing we're like well [TS]

01:05:43   that's a shitty thing we've got to stop [TS]

01:05:45   the next guy from doing that and so we [TS]

01:05:48   pass a law about this guy who built the [TS]

01:05:49   thing and by the time the law gets past [TS]

01:05:52   that was eight years ago and no one is [TS]

01:05:55   ever going to build that thing again [TS]

01:05:56   they're building something new that [TS]

01:05:58   shitty in a different way and and what I [TS]

01:06:01   keep saying to people is it's not that [TS]

01:06:03   hard to go 20 years in the future [TS]

01:06:04   imagine what we want the city to look [TS]

01:06:06   like and then reverse engineer it right [TS]

01:06:08   we we do we do have this ability and it [TS]

01:06:13   doesn't have to be [TS]

01:06:15   we don't have to build everything out of [TS]

01:06:16   Legos just screen you know just [TS]

01:06:19   rummaging in the Box looking for one [TS]

01:06:21   more green tile we can look ahead and [TS]

01:06:25   say we are like the city is going to be [TS]

01:06:29   we are redesigning the grid right what [TS]

01:06:32   is the grid mean we're we're shipping [TS]

01:06:35   Seattle has really cheap electricity [TS]

01:06:37   because we ship in this electricity from [TS]

01:06:38   there [TS]

01:06:39   from our dams up in the mountains this [TS]

01:06:42   the 20 years ago we thought of as the [TS]

01:06:44   salmon killing dams up there they've [TS]

01:06:48   given us cheap power for years but [TS]

01:06:50   another technology that's coming online [TS]

01:06:51   is the the molten-salt battery [TS]

01:06:54   technology which it would enable us at a [TS]

01:06:57   municipal scale to put giant batteries [TS]

01:07:02   that can soak up all that power soak up [TS]

01:07:06   all the solar power that we're [TS]

01:07:07   generating on the roofs of every home in [TS]

01:07:10   the city store it efficiently and then [TS]

01:07:15   redistribute that power at night when [TS]

01:07:17   the Sun has gone down and everybody [TS]

01:07:18   wants to turn their jacuzzi tubs on with [TS]

01:07:21   the storage what used to be a very [TS]

01:07:22   important part of the high-cost storage [TS]

01:07:25   is the problem right i mean because if [TS]

01:07:27   you are if you're if you're generating [TS]

01:07:29   power in the middle of the day when the [TS]

01:07:31   Sun and Sun is up that's not necessarily [TS]

01:07:33   when you want the power maybe even [TS]

01:07:35   though it's really hot you want air [TS]

01:07:36   conditioning on but you know that's the [TS]

01:07:39   middle of the day when you're probably [TS]

01:07:40   not even at home and here and your beer [TS]

01:07:43   solar power is your solar sensors are [TS]

01:07:46   generating all this power but if you [TS]

01:07:47   can't store it it just it's just it's [TS]

01:07:51   you have to burn it off right it's just [TS]

01:07:53   garlic wasted sunshine but with these [TS]

01:07:56   giant batteries of the superheated [TS]

01:07:59   sodium um that that cities can build you [TS]

01:08:04   know they can they can build them added [TS]

01:08:06   a giant scale and create a kind of like [TS]

01:08:08   small grid we're all day long were [TS]

01:08:11   soaking up the Sun we're sending that [TS]

01:08:13   power to our local our local sink and [TS]

01:08:18   then at night it redistributes and the [TS]

01:08:21   and the internet and those [TS]

01:08:22   interconnected technologies are what are [TS]

01:08:24   going to enable us to like understand [TS]

01:08:26   how much we contributed to the pile how [TS]

01:08:29   much we're taking back you know it's it [TS]

01:08:32   is it's an incredibly exciting time but [TS]

01:08:36   when you talk when you when you're for [TS]

01:08:39   instance if you were running for City [TS]

01:08:41   Council of your city and you talk to [TS]

01:08:44   people about it you're not allowed to be [TS]

01:08:45   excited about that stuff because it [TS]

01:08:47   still sounds so pie-in-the-sky [TS]

01:08:50   you're the crazy rock candidate who's [TS]

01:08:52   talking about molten-salt batteries 10 [TS]

01:08:55   what about a space station that has [TS]

01:08:56   waterfalls and its moments all batteries [TS]

01:09:00   are they we like there will be so the [TS]

01:09:04   faroe islands have already started [TS]

01:09:06   developing like yeah like municipal [TS]

01:09:11   scale battery the complexes but there [TS]

01:09:15   will be an American city that decides [TS]

01:09:19   yes we are the pilot program for this [TS]

01:09:21   this is where this is where we're going [TS]

01:09:23   let's build let's start building these [TS]

01:09:24   talk about new jobs right and that [TS]

01:09:26   should be Seattle who but we can't talk [TS]

01:09:29   about it unless enough people believe [TS]

01:09:32   that the future is a real thing that is [TS]

01:09:34   happening you know that these [TS]

01:09:36   technologies are that we are really on [TS]

01:09:38   the cusp of a huge across-the-board step [TS]

01:09:43   forward and all these things are going [TS]

01:09:47   to be integrated right so we don't have [TS]

01:09:49   to just we don't have to build more [TS]

01:09:52   stables downtown we need to start [TS]

01:09:55   thinking about the interconnectivity of [TS]

01:09:57   everything and you know I don't I swear [TS]

01:10:01   to you like a lot of the people on the [TS]

01:10:02   seattle City Councilor like the internet [TS]

01:10:05   my daughter sends me pictures sometimes [TS]

01:10:07   of my granddaughter but I can't open [TS]

01:10:09   them are they a PDF or something I'm not [TS]

01:10:12   anyway that's something that's very [TS]

01:10:14   surprising [TS]

01:10:15   it shouldn't be because again the people [TS]

01:10:20   that typically run for local office are [TS]

01:10:22   coming out of traditions that we have [TS]

01:10:26   you know there's no there there's one of [TS]

01:10:30   the criteria for being president the [TS]

01:10:31   united states not yet to be a citizen [TS]

01:10:35   that's right gotta be 35 correct [TS]

01:10:37   families know you can have felonies you [TS]

01:10:41   cannot have ever been in open rebellion [TS]

01:10:43   against the United States also no [TS]

01:10:45   treason treason busters no treason no [TS]

01:10:47   you cannot have declared allegiance [TS]

01:10:49   already know perfectly but other than [TS]

01:10:52   that that is about [TS]

01:10:53   oh you have to have lived in the United [TS]

01:10:55   States you have to be a city born in [TS]

01:10:58   America but you also have to have lived [TS]

01:10:59   in America for 15 years [TS]

01:11:01   so you can't be born [TS]

01:11:03   American then go live in France your [TS]

01:11:04   life and then run for the US President [TS]

01:11:07   you have to their is a like a somewhat [TS]

01:11:09   of a residency requirement but other [TS]

01:11:12   than that there's no education [TS]

01:11:14   requirement [TS]

01:11:15   there's no experience requirements and [TS]

01:11:19   that's true for a reason because the I [TS]

01:11:23   think personally that the founders [TS]

01:11:25   understood that the more that you make [TS]

01:11:29   politics a profession [TS]

01:11:30   the more you risk [TS]

01:11:34   well that it in invariably leads to an [TS]

01:11:37   old darky we're the only people that can [TS]

01:11:40   practice politics are the practiced [TS]

01:11:42   politicians and yet that is our instinct [TS]

01:11:47   every time write like a lot of people [TS]

01:11:48   have come to me and said well why are [TS]

01:11:50   you running for City Council why don't [TS]

01:11:51   you run for neighborhood council what's [TS]

01:11:57   your real game and I'm like well I'm [TS]

01:12:00   running for City Council because that's [TS]

01:12:01   the that is the job that I that I want [TS]

01:12:04   and there isn't but that but that but [TS]

01:12:08   but but the conventional wisdom within [TS]

01:12:11   this group of 500 people that know that [TS]

01:12:13   there is even a city council is that the [TS]

01:12:16   way you get this job is that you start [TS]

01:12:18   on your college democrats and you work [TS]

01:12:24   some campaigns and you you know you [TS]

01:12:29   spend some time as an activist [TS]

01:12:30   and-and-and day and there really is this [TS]

01:12:34   kind of farm team mentality because [TS]

01:12:36   those are the people who pursue you know [TS]

01:12:38   those are the people who pursue elective [TS]

01:12:40   office so often and typically they are [TS]

01:12:43   not reading wired but I say right they [TS]

01:12:48   are not they don't have a podcast i [TS]

01:12:51   don't know of any other candidates that [TS]

01:12:54   have a podcast and that and I believe [TS]

01:12:57   that we should be ruled by podcasters as [TS]

01:13:00   a nation [TS]

01:13:00   deer deer deer right imagine imagine uh [TS]

01:13:03   the McElroy brothers in the US Senate I [TS]

01:13:10   don't think any of that [TS]

01:13:12   the thing about the tall hat in in the [TS]

01:13:15   in the morning Scorsese movie haha never [TS]

01:13:19   have Lincoln what's-his-name a uh yeah [TS]

01:13:24   it's a it's Abraham Lincoln gangs of [TS]

01:13:26   Capitol Hill Abraham a mcelroy lincoln [TS]

01:13:30   lincoln lincoln now the McElroy's have a [TS]

01:13:33   podcast there are some nice guys [TS]

01:13:35   mcelroy's of course all the great shows [TS]

01:13:38   right the McElroy's they live up over [TS]

01:13:40   the over yonder sure the bill something [TS]

01:13:43   I'm you one of their daughters comes [TS]

01:13:44   over here and there is one of the [TS]

01:13:45   Roderick boys can sleep in my barn but [TS]

01:13:47   whatever you do and yeah I am I don't [TS]

01:13:56   know my gosh i find this i do find this [TS]

01:13:58   interesting as much as I find politics [TS]

01:13:59   personally tedious i think that there's [TS]

01:14:01   there's a lot about what you're trying [TS]

01:14:02   to do that is extremely interesting and [TS]

01:14:03   that the way that has overflowed with [TS]

01:14:06   something else that I barely understand [TS]

01:14:07   is management and the whole idea of like [TS]

01:14:10   the role that managers or leaders if you [TS]

01:14:12   like have inside of a company and I [TS]

01:14:14   don't know it always seems that always [TS]

01:14:15   feels to me like people are trying to [TS]

01:14:18   lavish managers with you know all these [TS]

01:14:23   different ways to develop and educate [TS]

01:14:25   and all these sorts of things and then [TS]

01:14:26   the real problem is all these worker [TS]

01:14:28   bees over here just to just don't get [TS]

01:14:29   how it goes [TS]

01:14:30   mm and I i can and this is not you know [TS]

01:14:32   it's not a perfect one to one [TS]

01:14:33   relationship but it seems like somebody [TS]

01:14:35   in your position has to really want that [TS]

01:14:38   particular job and to specifically has [TS]

01:14:42   to really want to do a certain kind of [TS]

01:14:44   work that requires a strange balance [TS]

01:14:47   doing something with my two hands here [TS]

01:14:48   let's go like on the one hand it seems [TS]

01:14:51   to me that a lot of your job is pretty [TS]

01:14:53   like down in the weeds like [TS]

01:14:54   implementation like you're gonna have to [TS]

01:14:56   be involved in conversations about stuff [TS]

01:14:59   that's going to happen in the next three [TS]

01:15:01   to six 1215 months right there stuff [TS]

01:15:03   you're doing that it is it isn't just [TS]

01:15:05   you know a philosophy party their stuff [TS]

01:15:07   you're gonna have to do every day that [TS]

01:15:08   involves extent to which the city [TS]

01:15:10   continues to run efficiently right but [TS]

01:15:12   on the other hand you have to make all [TS]

01:15:14   of those decisions through a certain [TS]

01:15:16   kind of lens it seems to me like on the [TS]

01:15:18   one hand it be your liking somebody [TS]

01:15:20   who's great at implementing it is a good [TS]

01:15:21   communicator but a also has the lens [TS]

01:15:24   that you're looking for [TS]

01:15:25   so even though you're not walking into [TS]

01:15:26   this situation situation in a space suit [TS]

01:15:28   with a Raygun i'm saying i'm john from [TS]

01:15:30   the future like you have the state of [TS]

01:15:32   mind to go i'm not i'm not scared of the [TS]

01:15:34   idea of smart innovation in fact i'm [TS]

01:15:37   going to welcome it and make a part of [TS]

01:15:39   my my Creed to like keep an eye out for [TS]

01:15:41   the stuff we don't need to just be [TS]

01:15:43   thinking about this week because that [TS]

01:15:45   will always be there will always have [TS]

01:15:46   the urgency of this week but like to be [TS]

01:15:48   thinking about how will I know the right [TS]

01:15:49   pitch when it comes along like being [TS]

01:15:51   able to keep up on the kind of stuff [TS]

01:15:52   that other people think is real [TS]

01:15:54   tutti-frutti can help you make great [TS]

01:15:56   decisions about like you say let's be [TS]

01:15:59   specific not building more stables in [TS]

01:16:01   your analogy [TS]

01:16:02   yeah everybody's gonna always want more [TS]

01:16:04   stables because there's a there's a [TS]

01:16:05   stable industry and people use tables [TS]

01:16:07   etc but you know it's like The Henry [TS]

01:16:09   Ford you know fast people what they [TS]

01:16:10   wanted they would set a faster horse [TS]

01:16:12   right [TS]

01:16:12   same idea like i don't know maybe I'm [TS]

01:16:14   wrong about that but it seems like i was [TS]

01:16:16   talking to talking to a friend of mine [TS]

01:16:17   the other day about your candidacy and [TS]

01:16:19   saying like you know it seems even if [TS]

01:16:21   you were to be say a senator a senator [TS]

01:16:24   or a congressperson but especially like [TS]

01:16:27   a senator you have enough of a staff of [TS]

01:16:30   people that you have to have a staff of [TS]

01:16:33   people so that you can on some level [TS]

01:16:35   stay up in the clouds a little bit with [TS]

01:16:36   what you do you don't want to have to [TS]

01:16:37   make sure that every document got signed [TS]

01:16:39   every meeting got made [TS]

01:16:40   but in your case you're not gonna have [TS]

01:16:42   more than one two or three people for [TS]

01:16:43   staff them i mean you're gonna have to [TS]

01:16:45   be heavily involved in a lot of those [TS]

01:16:47   implementation details so you can't you [TS]

01:16:50   can't afford to be all up in the trees [TS]

01:16:52   but it does mean that I'm not going [TS]

01:16:54   anywhere with this I just think it's [TS]

01:16:55   really valuable to have somebody there [TS]

01:16:56   who even just because you're not walking [TS]

01:16:58   and carrying a sign doesn't mean you [TS]

01:17:00   don't have your own idea of a vision and [TS]

01:17:02   part of that vision is not specifically [TS]

01:17:04   implement this thing but to say we need [TS]

01:17:06   to change the way we look at and think [TS]

01:17:08   about options [TS]

01:17:09   yeah and that means making we're going [TS]

01:17:12   to do that you're gonna have to all do [TS]

01:17:13   something very weird and very courageous [TS]

01:17:16   which is to admit that the future is [TS]

01:17:17   happening whether we like it or not [TS]

01:17:19   write the future is not going to present [TS]

01:17:20   itself as an app within in app purchases [TS]

01:17:23   it's going to come along as something [TS]

01:17:24   that seems extremely strange and and and [TS]

01:17:27   really out there at first but in order [TS]

01:17:29   to make the right infrastructure [TS]

01:17:30   decisions we have to be thinking beyond [TS]

01:17:33   the end of our nose and realize what [TS]

01:17:34   what future do we want to have here and [TS]

01:17:36   how does that affect what we implement [TS]

01:17:37   yeah that's [TS]

01:17:38   and I and we have lots of love lots of [TS]

01:17:42   role models right where we are looking [TS]

01:17:44   at San Francisco your own town and [TS]

01:17:46   saying wow this wave of of prosperity [TS]

01:17:52   crashed on san francisco and san [TS]

01:17:56   Francisco has a culture a traditional [TS]

01:18:00   culture of like hey man hey man you're [TS]

01:18:05   blocking my Sun man and so that you know [TS]

01:18:09   San Francisco is very lazy fair about [TS]

01:18:12   stuff like kale culturally be culturally [TS]

01:18:16   yeah but they're not lazy fair about a [TS]

01:18:19   lot of stuff they're not but what has [TS]

01:18:21   happened need a permit to take a shit in [TS]

01:18:22   this town you can't well boy a lot of [TS]

01:18:24   people are getting permits then haha [TS]

01:18:28   continue my bones going to tell you that [TS]

01:18:34   we don't need to have an operation for [TS]

01:18:36   some of the company and want to get a [TS]

01:18:37   lashing to defecate how does what a [TS]

01:18:39   point-to-point the candidate to the [TS]

01:18:41   Tenderloin district that's what I'm [TS]

01:18:43   gonna poison account of the of the of [TS]

01:18:45   the bolus it's gonna be like a [TS]

01:18:47   prescription pad that somebody ripped [TS]

01:18:49   off of a doctor's desk I need bread you [TS]

01:18:53   want to use it for the next 30 days and [TS]

01:18:55   shit [TS]

01:18:56   it's not funny on any level because it's [TS]

01:18:59   not funny because it is real and gross [TS]

01:19:01   and it's also not funny because nobody [TS]

01:19:02   shooting outside wants to be doing that [TS]

01:19:04   mostly exactly right fucking awful and [TS]

01:19:07   it but it's emblematic and you cannot [TS]

01:19:08   get away from it [TS]

01:19:09   I just more of like good luck trying to [TS]

01:19:11   get your movie made in San Francisco [TS]

01:19:12   like there's a reason Vancouver's [TS]

01:19:15   thriving and nobody picks movies movies [TS]

01:19:16   here anymore and Seattle has you know [TS]

01:19:18   Seattle has experienced a lot of a lot [TS]

01:19:20   of those same problems and the thing is [TS]

01:19:21   weird we are just you know we are where [TS]

01:19:24   San Francisco was some number of years [TS]

01:19:27   ago it's hard to know exactly how many [TS]

01:19:29   years behind we are but the money is [TS]

01:19:32   pouring in the social services are not [TS]

01:19:35   keeping pace the rent is going crazy [TS]

01:19:38   the middle class is getting pushed out [TS]

01:19:39   there is no you know we're we're [TS]

01:19:42   becoming a city where everybody is [TS]

01:19:43   either making two hundred thousand [TS]

01:19:45   dollars or twenty thousand dollars and [TS]

01:19:47   there is a Seattle [TS]

01:19:51   alternative there is a Seattle way of of [TS]

01:19:55   experiencing this growth that is [TS]

01:19:57   different from anywhere else we have to [TS]

01:20:01   believe that that's true and we are able [TS]

01:20:05   to impose our values on what's happening [TS]

01:20:12   in our own city but it does require some [TS]

01:20:15   it requires foot spa it requires will to [TS]

01:20:21   say hey wait [TS]

01:20:25   we all know that the free market is just [TS]

01:20:29   a thought technology that we've all been [TS]

01:20:31   duped into believing in there enough air [TS]

01:20:35   quotes with the phrase free market you [TS]

01:20:37   know it works if you believe in it it [TS]

01:20:40   doesn't work if you don't it is just an [TS]

01:20:42   order it benefits you [TS]

01:20:44   yeah it's just another idea yeah it's [TS]

01:20:47   not legally binding like none of these [TS]

01:20:51   none of these thought technologies that [TS]

01:20:53   when we have enshrined in law are [TS]

01:20:56   anymore legally binding than the laws [TS]

01:20:58   that we have written to enshrine them [TS]

01:21:00   and so we are capable of writing new [TS]

01:21:03   laws we are capable of envisioning a new [TS]

01:21:05   form of city and yet it's never as [TS]

01:21:10   simple as I mean there's a there's a [TS]

01:21:12   kind of movement right now to try a new [TS]

01:21:16   version of rent control which is much [TS]

01:21:18   closer to I think it's more accurately [TS]

01:21:20   described as controlling the rent [TS]

01:21:22   changing changing the abilities of [TS]

01:21:26   landlords to rent according to what they [TS]

01:21:31   think the market is and putting [TS]

01:21:33   restrictions on like well rent is a [TS]

01:21:35   different category of service now [TS]

01:21:37   oh it's a it's a really a different [TS]

01:21:40   approach completely different approach I [TS]

01:21:42   mean I'm sorry that sounds really [TS]

01:21:43   insipid but instead of saying here's a [TS]

01:21:45   lot about how much you can raise right [TS]

01:21:46   it's taking it from a different angle [TS]

01:21:47   taken from a different angle like rent [TS]

01:21:48   is the thing and it's going to be tied [TS]

01:21:51   to the consumer price index so rents [TS]

01:21:54   cannot rise any faster that the consumer [TS]

01:21:56   price index [TS]

01:21:57   how's that for a new idea right and then [TS]

01:22:00   it's like oh that's a pretty novel idea [TS]

01:22:03   yeah you said as much in your i think on [TS]

01:22:05   your webpage and probably in a speech or [TS]

01:22:07   something he said something pretty smart [TS]

01:22:08   which is that your you know gentle about [TS]

01:22:11   it but it sounds like you're basically [TS]

01:22:12   saying what rent control does is ensure [TS]

01:22:14   that anybody lucky enough to have gotten [TS]

01:22:16   here a few years ago has cheap rent [TS]

01:22:18   while everybody else just swing [TS]

01:22:19   yeah old-fashioned rent control just [TS]

01:22:21   creates a new class of people that have [TS]

01:22:23   cheap apartments and those people are [TS]

01:22:26   not they don't have cheap apartments [TS]

01:22:28   because they are virtuous and they don't [TS]

01:22:30   even have have cheap apartments because [TS]

01:22:31   they are needy they just have them [TS]

01:22:33   because they were there first but this [TS]

01:22:36   new vision of rent control where it's [TS]

01:22:38   just like listen rent is not a thing [TS]

01:22:41   like gold and diamonds where the market [TS]

01:22:45   determines that gold is suddenly [TS]

01:22:47   suddenly were seventeen hundred dollars [TS]

01:22:49   an ounce when a year-and-a-half ago was [TS]

01:22:51   worth four hundred dollars an ounce and [TS]

01:22:53   we all go along with that because we [TS]

01:22:55   believe it we believe that the market [TS]

01:22:57   and the then these factors scarcity etc [TS]

01:23:00   etc like that these are somehow real [TS]

01:23:03   forces like the wind but we can say no [TS]

01:23:06   the it as people's wages rise so too can [TS]

01:23:11   rinse rise but you know in a way that is [TS]

01:23:14   can measure it [TS]

01:23:15   the problem with that is that it it's [TS]

01:23:17   this this is this old game of like what [TS]

01:23:20   does that apply to commercial rinse to [TS]

01:23:21   write because hard-pressed to the [TS]

01:23:23   enforcement right i mean in some ways [TS]

01:23:25   like the innumerable loopholes people [TS]

01:23:28   will find like the way the ls Act has [TS]

01:23:30   worked in San Francisco has just been an [TS]

01:23:31   epochal well the number one way that [TS]

01:23:33   people will get around as they'll say [TS]

01:23:35   great i'm turning my apartment building [TS]

01:23:36   into condominiums right [TS]

01:23:38   go fuck yourself while you back to a [TS]

01:23:39   couple now I mean it's actually not a [TS]

01:23:41   better word for that but it is actually [TS]

01:23:43   really describe how much life is like [TS]

01:23:45   the sims like this this one little thing [TS]

01:23:47   that you think you're fixing here could [TS]

01:23:49   just be making seven small problem [TS]

01:23:52   somewhere else you can't even figure out [TS]

01:23:53   its butterfly farts everywhere [TS]

01:23:59   well thank you for saving me a few [TS]

01:24:01   minutes this afternoon [TS]

01:24:03   yes yes John you're saying butterfly [TS]

01:24:05   parts right a butterfly farts in china [TS]

01:24:07   and all of a sudden you're paying 4,500 [TS]

01:24:11   studio apartment so much closer to the [TS]

01:24:13   country lawyer than you realize [TS]

01:24:14   I know works around the rolling cocoon [TS]

01:24:17   feels bad about the center of their [TS]

01:24:19   flowers butterfly all on the road and [TS]

01:24:22   he's flying through Chinese fortune up a [TS]

01:24:24   breeze [TS]

01:24:25   now that is one of the most rural [TS]

01:24:26   economies alongside in you that you [TS]

01:24:28   could possible have you're going to see [TS]

01:24:30   climate change you're going to see your [TS]

01:24:31   particular it's going to be real super [TS]

01:24:32   confusing for everybody all the [TS]

01:24:35   butterfly run he's on the hook is [TS]

01:24:43   innovation that's finding a little [TS]

01:24:44   faster sometimes you know and the thing [TS]

01:24:46   is seattle in the the way the people the [TS]

01:24:49   way the wind blows across the best [TS]

01:24:50   forget hit Seattle first that's going to [TS]

01:24:54   get on license plates telling you when [TS]

01:24:56   i'm on the City Council this is how the [TS]

01:24:57   city council meetings are gonna go horse [TS]

01:25:02   before cart butterfly farm when get a [TS]

01:25:05   fucking finicky there's a guy in this [TS]

01:25:08   town building the last butterfly stable [TS]

01:25:10   and I want to meet that man [TS]

01:25:12   uh-huh parts people so here's a man who [TS]

01:25:16   feeds ducks all he has left is his barn [TS]

01:25:19   oh my god are you saying you're holding [TS]

01:25:22   up really well though [TS]

01:25:24   well yeah but uh but but i did you know [TS]

01:25:27   i mean the the though the number one [TS]

01:25:29   thing I'm scared about is the UH is that [TS]

01:25:34   it that there's ugliness to this process [TS]

01:25:38   I don't believe that ugliness is [TS]

01:25:42   necessary i don't think it has any place [TS]

01:25:44   in it and yet i know that it is their [TS]

01:25:47   ugliness is there and and I'd and I'm [TS]

01:25:53   I'm just not looking forward to the [TS]

01:25:57   ugliness getting activated in amongst [TS]

01:26:00   the the voters the media could be [TS]

01:26:02   anywhere quickly another candidate could [TS]

01:26:04   come from anywhere right [TS]

01:26:06   yeah but be and the closer you get to I [TS]

01:26:09   mean it sounds like you're already being [TS]

01:26:10   taken maybe surprisingly seriously but [TS]

01:26:12   as you are taking more and more [TS]

01:26:13   seriously it may not may not be told [TS]

01:26:16   there today but as you get closer to [TS]

01:26:17   august and [TS]

01:26:18   you become threats the wrong word as you [TS]

01:26:21   become more viable candidate then you're [TS]

01:26:23   going to be a bigger target right well I [TS]

01:26:25   when I i sat down at two big tables one [TS]

01:26:28   of them was with the sierra club and [TS]

01:26:31   they interviewed me because they are [TS]

01:26:32   trying to decide who they're going to [TS]

01:26:34   endorse in my race the Sierra Club and i [TS]

01:26:37   sat at a table and you know they're [TS]

01:26:39   bored or whatever and we talked about [TS]

01:26:40   things and you can develop some programs [TS]

01:26:42   for them and then i sat at a table with [TS]

01:26:44   the Seattle chamber of commerce and for [TS]

01:26:48   the Seattle chamber of commerce meeting [TS]

01:26:49   i put in the address of the saddle [TS]

01:26:52   chamber of commerce and i put it into [TS]

01:26:53   apple maps [TS]

01:26:55   oh no I saw this which took me to a [TS]

01:26:58   witch took me to the top of a windmill [TS]

01:27:00   out on the beach somewhere and I was [TS]

01:27:07   like please somebody draw that you know [TS]

01:27:10   i'm in a little suit i got my briefcase [TS]

01:27:11   and it's like this is not where the [TS]

01:27:13   Seattle chamber commerce is so I'm late [TS]

01:27:15   for the meeting i show up back at the at [TS]

01:27:18   the meeting you know they wait for me I [TS]

01:27:20   walk in for whatever reason that day I [TS]

01:27:23   chose to wear a tweed suit so I'm in a [TS]

01:27:27   tweed suit [TS]

01:27:28   I'm half an hour late and I appear to be [TS]

01:27:31   the guy who believes who doesn't know [TS]

01:27:33   where downtown is and who legitimately [TS]

01:27:36   thought that the Seattle chamber of [TS]

01:27:37   commerce was in a windmill john robert [TS]

01:27:40   he's the candidate is still learning so [TS]

01:27:43   I'm like pot everyone sorry i'm late i [TS]

01:27:45   really am sorry that i appear to be the [TS]

01:27:48   exactly the kind of candidate that would [TS]

01:27:50   not know how to find the Seattle chamber [TS]

01:27:52   of commerce but I'm here now let's talk [TS]

01:27:54   and we talk and they're asking me [TS]

01:27:57   questions and you know and i can go [TS]

01:27:58   around the table and introduce [TS]

01:27:59   themselves and each one of those like [TS]

01:28:01   hello I'm the legal counsel for the big [TS]

01:28:03   major developer I'm the you know I'm the [TS]

01:28:07   property development officer for the [TS]

01:28:10   local sports franchises snidely whiplash [TS]

01:28:14   Korea I'm the you know I am Scrooge [TS]

01:28:17   McDuck's like all treasure back at [TS]

01:28:20   consultant and so I'm sitting at the [TS]

01:28:23   table and we're talking and I'm just [TS]

01:28:24   like listen you know what [TS]

01:28:26   funiculars and anybody and they're like [TS]

01:28:31   particulars and they all lean forward [TS]

01:28:34   and write down on their pad and at the [TS]

01:28:36   end of the thing I was like listen [TS]

01:28:37   there's no way that you guys are going [TS]

01:28:39   to endorse me I understand that all i [TS]

01:28:44   want to all i want you to understand is [TS]

01:28:47   that when I do get elected I want you to [TS]

01:28:49   feel like you can work with me and [TS]

01:28:52   they're all like oh and and then I said [TS]

01:28:57   a couple of more things about funiculars [TS]

01:28:59   and zip lines and at one point I said [TS]

01:29:02   you know here's the thing i never hear [TS]

01:29:04   about why don't we just make one we just [TS]

01:29:06   print more money we did not [TS]

01:29:10   nobody laughs well just tell just look [TS]

01:29:13   up and then look down and write on their [TS]

01:29:14   pads mmm good you are ridiculous alright [TS]

01:29:17   I see how this is going and then as i [TS]

01:29:19   leave you know I'm like once again sorry [TS]

01:29:21   that I was late [TS]

01:29:22   uh I believe in uh I believe in small [TS]

01:29:27   businesses and free enterprise [TS]

01:29:29   god bless america I and I do hope that [TS]

01:29:34   we will see each other again [TS]

01:29:36   goodbye and I walk out and i'm in the [TS]

01:29:39   lobby talking to the receptionist and I [TS]

01:29:41   hear a huge laughs like the whole room [TS]

01:29:45   starts laughing and I'm like are they [TS]

01:29:47   laughing because one of them said we [TS]

01:29:50   should absolutely endorse hit that guy [TS]

01:29:52   and they all laughing an agreement or [TS]

01:29:55   are they laughing because they are full [TS]

01:29:57   of fear or are they laughing because [TS]

01:30:00   someone said something funny a [TS]

01:30:02   completely unrelated just to break the [TS]

01:30:04   tension that i created in the room who [TS]

01:30:06   knows i know that they're not they can't [TS]

01:30:09   be laughing at me as an unserious [TS]

01:30:12   candidate because I raised more money in [TS]

01:30:14   a week than any city council candidate [TS]

01:30:17   has ever raised in Seattle history so [TS]

01:30:20   they know that that is real you know [TS]

01:30:23   so who knows at the seattle city car the [TS]

01:30:27   Seattle Chamber of Commerce is not going [TS]

01:30:29   to pick me as their endorse endorser [TS]

01:30:32   endorsee right but um [TS]

01:30:35   but when i win the election i'm going to [TS]

01:30:38   show back up there and I'm gonna say so [TS]

01:30:40   funiculars haha the seven ish [TS]