Ep. 127: "Fermi in a Van"

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0:00:20[Music]

0:00:25hello hey John hi Merlin how's it going

0:00:29pretty good

0:00:32what's the matter where they man John

0:00:35huh oh no things are good things are

0:00:39good you know is one of those it's just

0:00:41one of those like how good can things be

0:00:44you know what I mean yeah how good can

0:00:47they be really yeah you know it's a

0:00:50common there's a comment coming there's

0:00:51a meat-eor giant meteor gonna wipe us

0:00:53out

0:00:54I didn't know about this yeah how good

0:00:56can we feel that a BuzzFeed thinks I

0:00:58should catch up on that day what if you

0:01:01were on reddit you would know I you

0:01:03gotta get off the Red John I've never

0:01:05been on reddit

0:01:06oh I'm follow a tumblr site that puts up

0:01:12pictures of cute animals from that site

0:01:14but that's about it

0:01:15yeah every once in a while someone says

0:01:17I should do an ama from reddit I thought

0:01:19you were gonna do what i thought i saw

0:01:21you scheduled for one of those i don't

0:01:22think i ever was but in any case I I

0:01:25don't understand the interface i look at

0:01:26reddit and it looks like it's you know

0:01:28it looks like an organizational chart

0:01:30yeah or like a like an outline for a

0:01:33term paper

0:01:34yeah it's gonna get a tree format at

0:01:37reformat right and and you know what

0:01:39when i first got on the internet 1990

0:01:43art 7mm and I would go on the newsgroups

0:01:49or rather I would go to the internet i

0:01:52would go to a place where people were on

0:01:53the internet and I would look over their

0:01:54shoulder while they were on the news

0:01:55groups and i would say why are you doing

0:01:59this

0:02:00what what is this about and they were

0:02:02like all see you go over here and

0:02:04there's a guy that tells you how to

0:02:05build a ham radio

0:02:07I'm like I mean yeah but I did didn't it

0:02:09never appealed to me

0:02:11partly because i didn't like the didn't

0:02:14like the way that it looked like the way

0:02:16it was shaped and read it's like that

0:02:19for me

0:02:19yeah i mean i think in some ways and

0:02:22this is really reductive but I i think i

0:02:26sometimes feel like you can break it

0:02:28down into these two general levels of

0:02:31interest and anything about a site like

0:02:33metafilter which is similar in some ways

0:02:35even metafilter like some percent of the

0:02:38time

0:02:38I'm most interested in what people have

0:02:41to say about the link but a lot of times

0:02:43I'm really most interested in the link

0:02:44right and and I think the thing that

0:02:47makes the internet hard for me to

0:02:49understand sometimes is that there are a

0:02:50lot of people who are weary more

0:02:52interested in the comments and the link

0:02:53that's not a judgment but then it is a

0:02:55real difference in some ways that they

0:02:58see the link as the jumping-off point

0:02:59for providing opinion and having witty

0:03:02repartee right now and i had to come

0:03:04tend to be more interested in ruminating

0:03:06on the link

0:03:07yes especially by myself in in solitude

0:03:10agreed and agreed

0:03:12yeah i was thinking as I loaded up my

0:03:14briefcase today to come down here in my

0:03:16briefcase briefcase i have that was

0:03:19loading up my briefcase i was thinking

0:03:22that in my dad's time there is no my dad

0:03:25put nothing electrical in his briefcase

0:03:28with the exception perhaps of a micro

0:03:32cassette recorder for a to dictate right

0:03:37but there were no there's no cabling of

0:03:40any kind in my dad's briefcase you

0:03:42didn't have like he had to plug anything

0:03:44in when he got to work or nothing and

0:03:46nothing ever got plugged in when my dad

0:03:48was at an airport he never plugged a

0:03:50single thing in in his life and as I am

0:03:54as I'm loading up my briefcase just to

0:03:57come down here to talk to you and I'm

0:03:59like oh I gotta get that other cable and

0:04:01I go over and I get a cable and I stick

0:04:03it in a so-called right and I need that

0:04:05cable for that other thing and I go get

0:04:08that cable and pretty soon you know your

0:04:10briefcases just like it's just a

0:04:12spaghetti of of different wires the

0:04:15x-rated it was like a bomb yeah right

0:04:18and and and and it caused me to think

0:04:21that up until probably about I would say

0:04:26into the nineties if your if your work

0:04:31entailed that you were using electrical

0:04:34gizmos it was a ninety-nine percent

0:04:38chance that you were a technician that

0:04:40you were either you're a blue-collar

0:04:42person and you had a briefcase full of

0:04:45gizmos because your job involved you

0:04:48doing some

0:04:49monitoring of some HVAC equipment right

0:04:53and now it is completely flipped and

0:04:57every everybody is carrying around

0:05:00electronic equipment all the time you

0:05:02are measured in fact your status is

0:05:05measured by how much is mala g you have

0:05:09in your bag not how little my dad never

0:05:11had a single and no one he knew had a

0:05:14single gizmo right yeah yeah I get what

0:05:19you're saying and it's funny because

0:05:20like as much as you get like a new

0:05:22laptop bag or a new briefcase in your

0:05:24case you know if you simply adapted to

0:05:26that because when you when you're

0:05:27describing somebody who dealt with gives

0:05:30us for living not thinking about like a

0:05:31phone repair person yeah right he had a

0:05:34hardshell case he had a goddamn van

0:05:37yeah starting to think I don't need a

0:05:40backpack i need of an he had a van with

0:05:42a ladder on the top right yeah and and

0:05:44it's ended it

0:05:45you know it's good the culture could

0:05:47have gone a lot of different ways we

0:05:49could have gone it's like that are that

0:05:51famous our crumb drawing of of of

0:05:54progress right and first it's horse

0:05:57drawn carriage and then it's a

0:05:58locomotive and then it's phone wires and

0:06:00and el Caminos and more and more the

0:06:03landscape is filled up with phone wires

0:06:05in encroaching technology and mr. the

0:06:09sort of little or lesser known coda to

0:06:12that drawing were that his three

0:06:14possible versions of the future and one

0:06:17of them was like hover cars and electric

0:06:21and and serve Jetsons houses and one of

0:06:25them was a completely blown out

0:06:28landscape of just like dystopia and then

0:06:34obviously the one that he / this is hard

0:06:36it's hard for me to reconcile this with

0:06:38what I know about our crumb but the

0:06:40third option of his three options was a

0:06:44kind of ecouture Pia of years it's

0:06:47and tall forest and people you know a

0:06:51community of people living in a natural

0:06:53hippie style it's an option it's an

0:06:58option it but it seemed to me that it

0:07:00seems like our chrome would have he

0:07:02would have desired that the future

0:07:04looked like everyone wearing spats and

0:07:07straw boaters and playing the banjo

0:07:09actually how the future turned out haha

0:07:13we are living in an R crumb dream future

0:07:16that even he didn't envision didn't

0:07:18carry their pictures around with them

0:07:20yeah I got picked on a lot by so yeah I

0:07:25but i wonder i mean we went this way

0:07:29IRA do you remember the osborne computer

0:07:31I i know of it i have my my best friend

0:07:35in high school his father was an early

0:07:37adopter and he owned an oz burn which

0:07:41was the first briefcase computer that

0:07:44was the size of it was this it was

0:07:47bigger than a been at our computer right

0:07:51bigger than what we would call a

0:07:53necessary I'm what would you call that

0:07:56yeah I know what you mean like it's

0:07:57bigger than a desktop computer it's it's

0:07:58it's not not at all portable but much

0:08:01smaller than the mainframe or mini

0:08:02computers that we thought of as being a

0:08:04computer at the time

0:08:05yeah and the entire screen was about the

0:08:07size of an iphone to disk drives and

0:08:12today he actually brought my friend

0:08:14brought that down to our they brought it

0:08:16over to my house sometimes and you know

0:08:19plate we played games on the osburn

0:08:22and to think that that is in a museum

0:08:25now

0:08:26[Music]

0:08:28no that's that's it is haha episode of

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0:09:49squarespace for supporting rod on the

0:09:51line we could not do it without this

0:09:53know there are a lot of ways I could go

0:09:55with that but I got tired of hearing

0:09:56myself talk haha i am you know what I

0:10:02notice is you know everybody everybody i

0:10:05know but but for probably all kinds of

0:10:08obvious reasons most people i know have

0:10:10a smartphone of some kind you got an

0:10:12iphone android phone you got to whatever

0:10:13phone but like in my neighborhood which

0:10:16is mostly you know people from Asia lot

0:10:19of chinese people on home so many people

0:10:24still have like a clamshell like a flip

0:10:26phone feature phone interested in it i

0:10:28mean that the interesting thing about

0:10:29that is though I mean

0:10:31see now I'm gonna get our mom back again

0:10:33but like the funny thing is like we get

0:10:35these I get a new phone every what two

0:10:38years three or something like that you

0:10:41know and as you've noted you got to get

0:10:43there the reckon the right charging

0:10:45cables and you get all synced up and

0:10:47it's it's a weird thing though that like

0:10:50these folks have the same roughly the

0:10:53same phone that I had before I got an

0:10:56iphone so like they've got like a mid

0:10:582000s level phone it looks like it's

0:11:01been at the bottom of a fish tank for

0:11:03six yrs a razor

0:11:05oh yeah well in a lot of cases like the

0:11:07samsung phones man you could hammer

0:11:09nails with those things those old nokia

0:11:10phones like their another really strong

0:11:12and I guess those bands still work if

0:11:14you need to have a phone and that's what

0:11:15people use it for today their

0:11:16interaction is they they have that phone

0:11:18for phone things and they talk about it

0:11:20sometimes and then close it up and put

0:11:22their pocket and they said I'm you act

0:11:23like they're asleep

0:11:24it's a thing but you know and I don't

0:11:26really feel like assistant assistant

0:11:28insightful as your other more and i

0:11:30guess haha i remember that was a time

0:11:37when that I am

0:11:39why do we need more than three TV

0:11:41channels

0:11:42what's the deal haha you got for you got

0:11:48three VHF channel he had to a UHF

0:11:50channels wait what-what-what are good

0:11:53people do you could only watch one at a

0:11:55time

0:11:56it's a matter but I you know but you

0:11:58know that the one thing I will say

0:11:59though is that I i think that this might

0:12:01come out of certainly comes out of the

0:12:03rapid pace of technology and it comes

0:12:05out of my still even though i'm getting

0:12:07to be older and I'm not as interested in

0:12:09New nerdy stuff by a long shot

0:12:11as I was even five years ago even now

0:12:14still I find myself like i don't i don't

0:12:17feel like things have gotten that much

0:12:18easier because by the time they're all

0:12:20the bugs have been worked out of you

0:12:22know whatever iOS or standard whatever

0:12:24by the time I'm getting the hang of that

0:12:25there's a new one and then I sit on that

0:12:27for a while are my backup still working

0:12:29is this thing still oh now like my wife

0:12:32my wife and it for the last three years

0:12:33had 14 copies of every contact my wife

0:12:36my wife

0:12:37no I here's the thing with my wife she's

0:12:39got a but I've got in there and I have

0:12:41like once a year I go in and I

0:12:42definitively decided I actually have a

0:12:44built-in purpose

0:12:45program then we'll help me locate and

0:12:48delete but like her contacts now are so

0:12:51screwed up that she doesn't like she

0:12:53mostly has 14 copies of the same contact

0:12:57so she has something like 5000 contacts

0:12:58or in some cases i guess maybe this app

0:13:02got it wrong and now in some cases

0:13:04you'll have a contact that has 35 email

0:13:06addresses from different people

0:13:08associated with me and so now i'm just

0:13:10to the point where I open that up and i

0:13:11look at it and go you know what I should

0:13:13just burn it down if you never added

0:13:14from the whole yeah I want you to take

0:13:16this piece of paper write down the the

0:13:18note phone numbers and email addresses

0:13:19of five people that you really need and

0:13:21let's start over

0:13:22oh no you know the thing to do is to of

0:13:25course to send it above a bulk email out

0:13:28to everyone in your contact list i sent

0:13:30out a blast saying reply to this with

0:13:35your with your contact information

0:13:37because I dropped my phone or whatever

0:13:38right

0:13:40reply yes men and then only the people

0:13:42that reply

0:13:43those are those are your only true

0:13:45friends like those notes I get from

0:13:46people that I haven't even have enough

0:13:49that i haven't haven't talked to them in

0:13:5115 years we have a lot of them in 15

0:13:54years and maybe had one interaction with

0:13:56them look during the Clinton

0:13:57administration and I still every year to

0:14:00get an email from them with their

0:14:02updated contact deets

0:14:03yeah yeah here here's a my new my new

0:14:06email address

0:14:07yeah like your new email address who

0:14:10changes email addresses

0:14:11yeah I don't know as the market i'm john

0:14:14time marches on

0:14:15I feel like I I've touched on this over

0:14:17the over the years in talking to you but

0:14:21but but they're the but i want to say it

0:14:24again which it there was naught which is

0:14:28that that uh sort of sort of elaborate

0:14:33on what i was saying a minute ago that

0:14:36the way we use the word tech and we

0:14:40talked about tech now like it is a like

0:14:44it's kind of a new realm right like tech

0:14:48the tech economy is we think of tech as

0:14:50a as a thing that's only been around for

0:14:5315 years

0:14:55and it can be virtually anything it can

0:14:57mean television set-top boxes it could

0:14:59be an app on your iPhone it could be it

0:15:02could be all these different things and

0:15:04it's like we suddenly invented a way to

0:15:06use technology that we never had before

0:15:08yeah yeah and-and-and like technology

0:15:10somehow didn't exist before but but in

0:15:14fact like over the course of that means

0:15:17just since the Industrial Revolution

0:15:19there have been innumerable periods

0:15:22where where the culture at the time was

0:15:25fascinated by the new technology right

0:15:29everybody you know the cotton gin or the

0:15:31head or the Machine rolled cigarette or

0:15:34the or the automobile for Christ's sake

0:15:37and the technology of the moment is

0:15:41super fascinating to people and seems

0:15:45like it's revolutionized the way the

0:15:48people conduct their lives and then the

0:15:52the kind of the dust settles and that

0:15:54technology becomes commonplace and

0:15:58people stop talking about it right they

0:16:00go back to the the more important or

0:16:02more interesting business of talking

0:16:04about ideas or of talking about what I

0:16:10mean this is politics even and we're

0:16:13living in this this kind of extended

0:16:16period where we're talking about tack

0:16:19and interacting with tech as though that

0:16:22isn't that is in itself culture and oh I

0:16:28get what I mean like yeah it's like in

0:16:30the in the late seventies early eighties

0:16:32I think newspaper started realizing that

0:16:35people were dying and so they started

0:16:36having a section in the paper called

0:16:38health and suddenly for the first time

0:16:40you started seeing stuff about whatever

0:16:42peach pits of curing cancer or whatever

0:16:44and that became like a hot thing and now

0:16:46today it's not unusual to see a section

0:16:48anywhere of something called tech

0:16:49because people are using text to look at

0:16:51Tech and texts its own thing

0:16:53Tech is its own thing and and in a way

0:16:55it certainly in the in the little ghetto

0:16:58that we live in

0:17:00like tech is the topic and and when I

0:17:05was younger or I mean one but when we

0:17:07used to prognosticate about tech it was

0:17:10always that tech was going to facilitate

0:17:12the conversation tech was going to you

0:17:15know and that is part of the

0:17:17conversation we're having now that tech

0:17:18is just starting a conversation about

0:17:20tech yeah right and i couldn't be less

0:17:24interested / overtime an ocular point of

0:17:27view john glenn podcast talk about

0:17:29ah nothing this up but uh but you know

0:17:33you know what I'm saying like I do i do

0:17:34I see lasting I keep waiting for tech to

0:17:37stop being the topic and for that

0:17:40because I do feel like ultimately it is

0:17:43but it lowers the quality of the

0:17:46dialogue I'm I'm i feel like i am down

0:17:49not thats that's a maybe maybe a

0:17:53disparaging way to put it but i feel

0:17:55like i am i am talking to a bunch of

0:17:58people with the cables in their vans all

0:18:00the time but that those people are are

0:18:04presenting themselves and imagine

0:18:05themselves to be part of the like the

0:18:08the real like think thinking level and

0:18:12repeat their firm in a van

0:18:13yeah probably for me in a van with the

0:18:17ladder on the top 500 index in peace

0:18:21better scary for me man with the ladder

0:18:24on top what I was terrified of I had

0:18:26this terrible a realization the other

0:18:29day that you know you and I both have

0:18:35prepared our long lives to be uh

0:18:41prognosticator and then thinkers and

0:18:44hosts and toasters and you know like we

0:18:49imagined when we were young that there

0:18:52was a very important job

0:18:55in the world which was hard to get and

0:18:59really a prize when you got it which was

0:19:01that you were a person with some

0:19:04thoughts about things that people wanted

0:19:07to hear

0:19:08uh-huh and you were the you were the

0:19:11voice are you were the three were the

0:19:13the thinker the public person the

0:19:17citizen artist and I have this sort of

0:19:22terrible moment when I I was reflecting

0:19:25back on the eighties when as you do

0:19:30yeah that's the terrible nothing more

0:19:32from this terrible moment when I I i

0:19:35remember the Spotted Owl controversy

0:19:39here in the northwest and trying to

0:19:43tease out all the different sides of it

0:19:45when when it was really fun it embroiled

0:19:48here and realizing that but the answer

0:19:52was that it wasn't possible to save all

0:19:57the lumberjack jobs and the Lumberjacks

0:20:01were protesting on the streets of

0:20:03packwood or wherever the hell they lived

0:20:05and they were saying like we're losing

0:20:07our jobs to this to this bird and two

0:20:12and what it really was was that we were

0:20:14shipping all of their work all their

0:20:16jobs / 22 Asia we're putting the raw

0:20:20logs on boats and sending them to Asia

0:20:22rather than milling them here but the

0:20:24owl was a scapegoat but they were

0:20:27marching and saying like we are losing

0:20:29our jobs and and that they presented it

0:20:34as this kind of like I mean we can't

0:20:36lose our jobs so you have to find

0:20:38another solution other than that we that

0:20:41we stop cutting down trees or that would

0:20:43you know and i remember having that the

0:20:46insight that like oh these are these

0:20:49jobs are gone that these there are there

0:20:52won't be these lumberjack trolox no

0:20:54amount of protesting will change the

0:20:56reality of that

0:20:57yeah the the sad truth and the and the

0:21:00truth that no politician kind of has the

0:21:02guts to stand up and say is like no it's

0:21:05already happened

0:21:06and it was the same with the autoworkers

0:21:09in detroit right about the same time

0:21:11like hey we're losing our jobs and these

0:21:14are good union jobs that were paying a

0:21:16hundred and fifty thousand dollars a

0:21:17year for us to lean on a broom and smoke

0:21:19cigarettes and we can't lose these jobs

0:21:22and I was like well yeah in fact they're

0:21:24there already gone and you made a bad

0:21:27choice by leaving on a broom and smoking

0:21:29a cigarette and it kind of worked for a

0:21:33while but now it's over and and and

0:21:37watching those groups of workers have

0:21:41the slow dreadful realization that that

0:21:45they're put it there wasn't going to be

0:21:47it wasn't just a matter of going over

0:21:51and getting another job across the

0:21:53street it was that the whole thing was

0:21:55done and the ones that could adapt did

0:21:59and the ones that couldn't are on Social

0:22:01Security right now and yelling about

0:22:03obama but that this realization that you

0:22:07and I maybe have prepared our whole

0:22:09lives imagining that what we do and what

0:22:13we can do was some kind of rare talent

0:22:17that that the world desperately craved

0:22:20and now we have arrived at precisely the

0:22:26moment when it is hardest which is to

0:22:27say middle-aged and I just I'm realizing

0:22:32like it maybe maybe our jobs have been

0:22:37are starting to be outsourced in the

0:22:41sense that every teenager has an opinion

0:22:44and the values that right values it

0:22:47equally with ours and it's and it's know

0:22:50and they're better and they're better at

0:22:52engaging with the people who are

0:22:53primarily there to make comments who are

0:22:55going to make a lot do a lot of the

0:22:56heavy lifting for them right

0:22:58well in back to that previous thing

0:22:59there's nothing in one of the many lost

0:23:01episodes that people here we talked

0:23:03about college I don't remember when it

0:23:04was when we talk sometime ago you and I

0:23:06offline about college and and it's and

0:23:11and events in particular in the context

0:23:13of college being something that was I we

0:23:18tell me if I'm putting this

0:23:19right but that for both of us and maybe

0:23:22for our generation i guess or for you

0:23:23know II similar middle-class white kids

0:23:25college was something that was just you

0:23:28were gonna go to college and every

0:23:29decision that you made on the way to go

0:23:32into college was primarily an

0:23:33opportunity to screw up your chance to

0:23:35go to college

0:23:36it wasn't it wasn't something and again

0:23:38i'm sorry there's a bit of that we could

0:23:40but that but no seriously though that

0:23:42there was that we both I think we both

0:23:43shared that sense that like every every

0:23:46known or unknown thing that was on the

0:23:49path for us was well for one thing on

0:23:51one path here at that path is you're

0:23:53gonna fucking go to college right

0:23:54inexorable march so you going out and

0:23:57drinking that beer it's not just about

0:23:58you breaking a rule about drinking a

0:24:00beer when you're underage

0:24:01it's about the fact that could really

0:24:03screw up your with your one opportunity

0:24:05to be something nowadays and so the

0:24:08thing that in thinking about them will

0:24:10go a little bit John Rother care but in

0:24:12talking about what you're saying here i

0:24:14wonder if one thing we lose or are are

0:24:16losing or have lost in some ways i mean

0:24:19i think that many people that are really

0:24:21excited to go to college for the sake of

0:24:24going to college I just it feels it's

0:24:26become so wrote and so costly and so i

0:24:30don't know i mean there's a part of me

0:24:31that like once I was in college I was

0:24:32really into it because here's the thing

0:24:34yes on some level I thought of myself as

0:24:36a future Dick Cavett but i also was

0:24:38really open to the idea that there was

0:24:40so much stuff that I knew the name of

0:24:42but I didn't know anything about it and

0:24:44I was really open the idea of something

0:24:46okay well you have you talked to your

0:24:47butt a little bit about Shakespeare here

0:24:49how about you read some of those you've

0:24:51talked about these these novels in these

0:24:52great works these classics well now

0:24:53you're going to read those you're gonna

0:24:54go see all these paintings that have

0:24:56been named check and we're going to talk

0:24:58about them in context so there's at

0:25:00least some part of me that was really

0:25:01open to being a vessel for a while and

0:25:03taken i'm not saying it had any great

0:25:05impact right I did particularly well

0:25:07with it but i wonder if that state of

0:25:09mind is is different or maybe if I if I

0:25:11work was unique at that time I don't

0:25:13think i was i think we were I was people

0:25:16like me were pretty hungry to go

0:25:18somewhere not to be wrong but to

0:25:20definitely be open to the idea that

0:25:22there was shit tons of stuff that I

0:25:24didn't even know I needed to know and

0:25:26then once i had that I would be in a

0:25:28better position to conduct myself as an

0:25:30adult

0:25:30and I wonder if if if that isn't unique

0:25:33I wonder if that's still as pressing

0:25:35feeling as it is today because it and

0:25:38I'm not trying to be dismissive I'm not

0:25:39trying to be an old man but I do get the

0:25:41sense that there's less especially as

0:25:43the idea of a canon has kind of withered

0:25:45on the vine for better or for worse

0:25:47sometimes for better um you think people

0:25:50still have that same feeling of going

0:25:51like what I'm gonna go out today and

0:25:53learn what I might be wrong about I'm

0:25:54gonna go out today and like figure out

0:25:56all these ways that somebody could set

0:25:58me straight a little bit

0:25:59no i don't know i don't think that that

0:26:01that is the feeling because I don't

0:26:03think that there is a sense that you can

0:26:05be wrong about a thing in the same way i

0:26:09think that that the the idea that we

0:26:11have that you could be wrong that you or

0:26:13or rather that you could be right

0:26:15you could be more right was predicated

0:26:19on an understanding that there was a

0:26:21limited amount of knowledge right there

0:26:25were there was a cannon you went to

0:26:26college and there was that there were

0:26:29still more books than you could possibly

0:26:30read in a lifetime but you could read

0:26:34ten percent of the books and from that

0:26:37ten percent get a pretty good picture of

0:26:39what the common understanding of truth

0:26:42was and I idea and I think that's I

0:26:45think that's completely blown out of the

0:26:46water now right

0:26:48everybody's got their own micro truth

0:26:51and in that sense I think college is

0:26:54over there's no there's no reason it

0:26:58increasingly I feel like colleges is

0:27:00another one of these uh like temp it's a

0:27:04it's a timber business where the already

0:27:07kind of over

0:27:08it's already over and people are still

0:27:10going because of that because of inertia

0:27:14well because I mean I heard a thing on

0:27:16planet money we're talking about the

0:27:19kinds of jobs that have the highest and

0:27:21lowest average incomes so for example if

0:27:24you're going to if you you know what a

0:27:26petroleum engineer can make you can go

0:27:29to college and say well I'm going to go

0:27:30become a petroleum engineer because

0:27:32there's a pretty good chance that for at

0:27:33least the next five to ten years that's

0:27:34still gonna be a pretty good gig and I

0:27:36know I'm going to start in in the six

0:27:38figures the day I step out of that

0:27:39program right that has busy but that has

0:27:41a very what's funny about that as as

0:27:43difficult as that work is as smart as

0:27:46you have to be to do it as as hard as

0:27:48you're gonna have to work to get through

0:27:49that that is oddly similar to the same

0:27:51kind of vocational job that I had

0:27:53vocational training that I was

0:27:55completely not interested in when i was

0:27:57a kid i did not want to fix I didn't

0:27:59want to fix air conditioners I did not

0:28:00want to fix cash registers or not that

0:28:02was not you know work of the mind

0:28:05well yeah I exactly and a petroleum

0:28:06engineer spends a lot of time looking at

0:28:08graphs looking looking at printouts of

0:28:12yeah they're bears they're setting off

0:28:15charges are sending sound waves into the

0:28:17earth and watching it bounced off of

0:28:19stuff uh you know different layers of of

0:28:23schist or or felt bar and then they're

0:28:28really there they're interpreting charts

0:28:30basically in the same way that a that a

0:28:32radio repairman is they've just been

0:28:35taught how to do it

0:28:36it's more complicated than I mean I'm

0:28:39not even sure if it's more complicated

0:28:40than been tuning a crystal set but it

0:28:43doesn't feel like that it doesn't feel

0:28:45like upper campus right all that stuff

0:28:49at the University of Washington there

0:28:51are the lower campus is where all the

0:28:56new buildings are it's where all the

0:28:58excitement's happening it's where all

0:29:00you know you walk into these these

0:29:01buildings that have been for the old

0:29:03buildings that have been rehabilitated

0:29:05and every wall has a little cluster of

0:29:09av adapters and and little hook ups and

0:29:14USB ports and and they're all

0:29:18purpose-built for what people imagine or

0:29:23what people in 2009 imagined the modern

0:29:26classroom was going to be because we

0:29:28were all going to be Power pointing one

0:29:30another and it was you know books were

0:29:32gone and and science science science

0:29:35science and then the upper campus is is

0:29:39getting smaller and smaller and it's

0:29:43this area up there where people are

0:29:46still studying poetry or or like I mean

0:29:49can you think of a more relevant thing

0:29:52then poet than studying poetry but I

0:29:54mean the classic game classic is like

0:29:56you know our history right right but but

0:29:58when I was when I was entering college

0:30:00like those were precisely the things

0:30:02that interested me

0:30:03mhm art history was one of my all-time

0:30:06favorite class and colleges 20th century

0:30:08painting

0:30:09yeah one of one of four possible majors

0:30:12for me right there were only four

0:30:14conceivable ones English philosophy

0:30:18history art and and iím one of a mean I

0:30:29think entering freshman at the

0:30:31University of Washington now I mean they

0:30:33even in 1985 I don't think that many of

0:30:36them measured in the admit majored in

0:30:39the humanities but certainly a lot

0:30:41larger percentage than are doing it now

0:30:44I you know it right there that's the

0:30:46real automotive industry because think

0:30:48about that perfect storm on the one hand

0:30:50I mean I I you know I don't want to

0:30:53overstate this but i can already see

0:30:55that like when I was a kid we had a

0:30:57music class there was a gymnasium as you

0:31:00go to do Jim things there were all these

0:31:02things that were not strictly the

0:31:04academic stuff but I mean you had a

0:31:05music class you learn to a little bit

0:31:08play a little bit of an instrument learn

0:31:09about rhythm and learn about George

0:31:10Gershwin and all that kind of stuff like

0:31:12I you know i don't i don't i'm guessing

0:31:14the Copeland is not in the Common Core

0:31:17it in the way that it was when we were

0:31:20kids

0:31:20so on the one hand you have fewer and

0:31:22fewer people who are getting that

0:31:23everyday and let's be honest we're not

0:31:25just talking about middle-class kids

0:31:26there are a lot of kids that would not

0:31:27learn about that stuff at home they're

0:31:29not going to listen to their parents you

0:31:30know eight tracks of the planets or

0:31:32something like that and then you know

0:31:34but then on the other hand think about

0:31:35where the money comes from at a

0:31:36university not just the tuition but

0:31:38think about the grants think about where

0:31:40that money goes that's not going to be

0:31:41coming from you know the National

0:31:43Endowment for the Humanities probably

0:31:45going to be coming from exxon well and

0:31:47increasingly universities get a lot of

0:31:49money from the patents that they

0:31:51developed ID so I and I don't want to

0:31:55give too much away but but the I just

0:31:58had a very interesting meeting of of

0:32:00this arts commission

0:32:01that i'm on the music commission in the

0:32:03arts commission had a joint meeting and

0:32:05we were talking about the kind of we

0:32:08were we were pie-in-the-sky in because

0:32:10we're the those commissions are doing a

0:32:12really good job in seattle now and

0:32:13people are excited about them and

0:32:15companies are coming around and and the

0:32:17and the the proposal was kinda like all

0:32:20right if we were going to envision a

0:32:23forward-looking arts curriculum for

0:32:26Seattle Public Schools and we felt like

0:32:29we could present it to the world and and

0:32:32take money from people and and actually

0:32:34build it like not just build a

0:32:36curriculum but build up an academy and i

0:32:39just purchased outline if implemented

0:32:40yeah and really build a physical

0:32:43structure that has drinking fountains

0:32:44and and classrooms and is a place that

0:32:47that people go and what would it look

0:32:50like and we went around the table and

0:32:51this is a the these are the people at

0:32:53the Commission are like all the super

0:32:58altruistic mind set

0:33:00nobody's there to personally profit it's

0:33:04it's a it's a lot of work to be on one

0:33:06of those commissions and we're trying to

0:33:07make the city better but every single

0:33:10idea was like well you know what we need

0:33:11we need to you know we need a classroom

0:33:13on like video game design and we need a

0:33:15classroom on like you know graphic art

0:33:18design all this sort of design and and

0:33:23electronic music implementation classes

0:33:26where it's like we got to teach them how

0:33:28to use the tools the pro tools and the

0:33:31this tools and the part tools so that

0:33:33they can go out and like make commerce

0:33:38huh

0:33:40and as it as I wanted it sits one

0:33:42without anybody saying its kind of

0:33:44driven by the idea of a market right the

0:33:47cut the the commerce commerce word never

0:33:49got used it was just that as we because

0:33:52the thing is nobody wants to say well

0:33:54the kids should know what be all every

0:33:56single kid should be forced to learn the

0:33:59clarinet god forbid it right i mean all

0:34:03everybody on the thing wants to be

0:34:04contemporary they want to give stuff

0:34:06they want to have a curriculum that kids

0:34:08are interested in they want to they want

0:34:10to be ahead of the game

0:34:12head of their parents and not yet not

0:34:16force the clarinet on a bunch of kids

0:34:17that are using their iphones to make

0:34:20music but in doing that the whole

0:34:24curriculum was at as initially

0:34:27envisioned was dependent on companies

0:34:31interacting with the schools and and and

0:34:35and sort of like predicated on the idea

0:34:39that we were giving them real skills and

0:34:43not a bunch of like nothing so in order

0:34:46to attract that kind of interest by

0:34:48which we mean corporate money it has to

0:34:50appear uh it has to appear very modern

0:34:54mhm and very practical right so then

0:34:58that way Microsoft maybe we'll come in

0:35:00and give us five thousand zunes or

0:35:03something

0:35:03it's not about bringing somebody with a

0:35:06bassoon every once in awhile huh well

0:35:08and so it's so so it kind of came around

0:35:10the table to me and I was like listen

0:35:12it's not like we have the opportunity to

0:35:15develop an arts curriculum with a

0:35:18capital A arts and I don't think that

0:35:23that is technology dependent i mean i

0:35:25think it's it's important that we do

0:35:26have a room somewhere where where we can

0:35:29learn how to use protools and it's

0:35:31important to have a room somewhere we

0:35:33can use you know learn how to use a

0:35:35photoshop or whatever like tech rooms

0:35:39are important for sure but talking about

0:35:43art is already a mysterious project it's

0:35:49already complicated and difficult hard

0:35:51to even it's hard to even agree on what

0:35:53that means i guess you could argue

0:35:54that's always been the case in

0:35:56twentieth-century but i think it's at

0:35:57more than ever it's very difficult to

0:35:59come up with some version of art that

0:36:01doesn't either feel like dusty or full

0:36:03of charlatans

0:36:04yeah exactly Thank You exactly and yet

0:36:07without it like we can't see that ground

0:36:11to to the dusty history right we can't

0:36:16say like provocative art is just a thing

0:36:18that has been colonized by

0:36:21Russian mobsters and it's all just

0:36:24Damien Hirst garbage now like we have to

0:36:30continue to have a language of art and

0:36:32we have to continue to provide the

0:36:34opportunity for people to challenge us

0:36:38through art whatever mean you know I at

0:36:41and I reflect back on the jesse helms

0:36:43like auntie and I nea write a hearings

0:36:50of the nineteen eighties again fucking

0:36:52nineteen eighties got damaged the worst

0:36:54johnny was the cells bad but like this

0:36:56whole business of like what is art and

0:36:58and watching and actually being in a

0:37:02position sitting at a table where I

0:37:04might have some small voice in

0:37:07determining some aspect of an arts

0:37:11curriculum in seattle and realizing that

0:37:14I'm swimming against the tide even to

0:37:17suggest that the arts are in some way

0:37:19anything but a trade that the arts are

0:37:24something something that transcend

0:37:27training and become a kind of theory and

0:37:34practice that it that requires that you

0:37:39know they're recording some ways

0:37:40requires difficulty and requires that

0:37:44people be trusted and and and really

0:37:50like turning loose right if all they had

0:37:52were clarinets they would make something

0:37:55amazing with clarinets it isn't it

0:38:01doesn't matter that the tools be a

0:38:06avant-garde or that it's at the very

0:38:09least a three legged stool because if

0:38:11you had if think about you know when you

0:38:13have music classes in the past or

0:38:14something like that

0:38:15I mean you could hand somebody I'm like

0:38:17I said clarinet because that's that's

0:38:19that's not the best one to start with

0:38:20but even if it's one of those got off

0:38:22the recorders if you had somebody a

0:38:24recorder and just show them how to play

0:38:26scales and modes and maybe sure that

0:38:29things about rhythm time signatures and

0:38:30that kind of stuff you would that would

0:38:32now that's a pretty fucking dusty class

0:38:34because all you

0:38:34gonna do is play scales you're not going

0:38:36to actually making you music the second

0:38:38leg of the stool has to be well now that

0:38:40we know enough not even everything now

0:38:43that we know enough we can actually play

0:38:45hot cross buns or three blind mice

0:38:47whatever whatever whatever your regional

0:38:49version of that is and it's not going to

0:38:50sound great but now you're making a

0:38:52little tune now wouldn't it be great for

0:38:54the third leg of that stool soldier

0:38:55learn a little bit more about music and

0:38:57how people take those technical skills

0:38:59apply the craft of this song that

0:39:02somebody has put together and then what

0:39:04does that mean context and god dammit

0:39:06that can mean so many different things

0:39:08and I like I look at my kid and like

0:39:10right now she is pretty obsessed with

0:39:12making stuff all the time

0:39:14our house is upside down there's glue

0:39:16everywhere there's glitter glue there's

0:39:18origami paper on fucking everything

0:39:19she's kind of exciting things that all

0:39:21it's all this thought technology glitter

0:39:24glue glue with glitter

0:39:25Oh No and boy does it get everywhere

0:39:27because it because you thought you had

0:39:28trouble getting glitter out of things

0:39:29ask yourself about glitter glue haha

0:39:31it's like spray poo

0:39:34I don't want it but nobody like I see

0:39:37this with her see I really see with her

0:39:39right now where she's teaching herself

0:39:41she likes fancy writing more than

0:39:43regular writing so now she is tracing

0:39:46things in cursive and trying to teach

0:39:47yourself cursive because she just likes

0:39:49the way that it looks she writes letters

0:39:51to herself in cursive and then she

0:39:53illuminates them with with stamps and

0:39:55thinks she's cut out of magazines that

0:39:57you know she I'm not saying it's great

0:39:58art but she walks around with a legal

0:40:01pattern of independent we walk around

0:40:02the park and sheshe not very well but

0:40:04draw stuff all the time and like how

0:40:07long is she gonna have that how long is

0:40:10she going to have that urge to just make

0:40:12move your hand and make stuff up here on

0:40:13a page and the thing is I mean I'm torn

0:40:16on the technique technology issue

0:40:17because i do think of it as a class

0:40:19thing in a lot of ways and the thing is

0:40:21if you have an iPad in the house if you

0:40:23have a Mac in the house like there are

0:40:25plenty of resources even crappy open

0:40:27source apps but you could learn to use

0:40:29logic at the age of ten maybe protools

0:40:31but you could you can learn to do

0:40:33garageband on ipad that's all there

0:40:36I don't get me to track for that

0:40:38necessarily but there are a lot of kids

0:40:40that don't have that and I don't want to

0:40:42just put them on some you know 20 year

0:40:43old pc you know with some busted ass

0:40:46program crashes all the time

0:40:47yeah it's not you think I do think all

0:40:49those things do work together it's and

0:40:51it's not like so many problems at least

0:40:53in my estimation we fall short when we

0:40:56skip get too reductive about trying to

0:40:58focus on one aspect of it jesse helms

0:40:59did that by looking at bullets in a

0:41:01man's ass and saying ergo we should not

0:41:03find art right you're throwing out all

0:41:05these other things that are really

0:41:06valuable but even when we when we teach

0:41:08things like it's you have to understand

0:41:10it starts with the every little kid has

0:41:12a natural urge to make cool stupid stuff

0:41:15so I'm just about race cars sometimes

0:41:17it's about aliens

0:41:18sometimes it's about disney princesses

0:41:20but they have accomplished compulsion to

0:41:23make that stuff what this is this is why

0:41:25I'm terrified of them of Minecraft I

0:41:28don't understand it so Karen minecraft 2

0:41:30i'm not gonna go booga-booga but i have

0:41:32to run away from it because it just on

0:41:34the basis i'm saying just on the basis

0:41:36of the elementary school and what

0:41:37t-shirts kids wear it seems to become

0:41:40like an entire lifestyle to every is a

0:41:43lot of girls but especially every little

0:41:45boy around six seems to be getting like

0:41:47absorbed into Minecraft yeah and and the

0:41:49language that adults are using the the

0:41:53articles that i read about it in wired

0:41:55and the articles that i read about it

0:41:56everywhere I are all you know really at

0:42:01pains to talk about how creative it is

0:42:04inclined without collaborative and how

0:42:06it requires i mean i read an article not

0:42:08very long ago and I'm sure everybody

0:42:09listen to this podcast also read that

0:42:12said that minecraft actually increases

0:42:15literacy because kids are going on

0:42:18minecraft hack blogs and reading at

0:42:22reading above their reading level

0:42:24because they are interested in figuring

0:42:26out a passionate about it they're

0:42:28passionate about it and their passion is

0:42:30causing them to teach themselves to read

0:42:32on blogs and I read this thing and I was

0:42:36just like seriously really is this where

0:42:38we are is this the resisted the the the

0:42:42point in the conversation where I mean I

0:42:44feel like raising my hand and saying uh

0:42:46maybe the fact that Johnny can't read is

0:42:50is the is the thing to address not not

0:42:55to clapping and praise minecraft for

0:42:57teaching for giving kids a reason to

0:42:59learn to read I'm keeping my powder dry

0:43:00on this

0:43:01one and I'm trying and trying to help

0:43:02you keep your powder dry okay because

0:43:04it's a new thing it's a new thing but

0:43:06like I guess that it always seems like

0:43:08whenever something is new and we're not

0:43:11familiar with it like you and I are not

0:43:12familiar with it we see the worst

0:43:13aspects of it which is the same thing

0:43:15happened when people want to make

0:43:16computer games like why don't you want

0:43:18to go do your math homework why are you

0:43:19why are you doing all these computer

0:43:20games money on a way that kind of his

0:43:22kind of math homework what I'll say is

0:43:25and i I don't I can't have the numbers

0:43:27to say with whether that observation

0:43:29about reading blogs is true what i will

0:43:30say is my daughter is much more

0:43:32interested in reading something if she

0:43:33likes what she's going to read the

0:43:35cancer like in and that started with us

0:43:36reading comics before she could talk to

0:43:39like now she'll sit there with a comic

0:43:41book and I can see her and it's one

0:43:43thing that like I accidentally got right

0:43:44was the comic books because a kids comic

0:43:47book hasn't you can really look a good

0:43:49comic book you know so has great art and

0:43:51you can tell the story of sequential art

0:43:53and you can release us out a basic story

0:43:55and then when you learn a little bit

0:43:56more about reading you can figure out

0:43:58some of the words and then if you don't

0:43:59know the word you can like try to figure

0:44:01out the rest of it in context but let

0:44:02them think about it like you know

0:44:04anything where you really wanted

0:44:05something like you'll apply all of your

0:44:08devilish childish wits to trying to

0:44:10figure out how to get that thing so i

0:44:13don't know i mean i don't think the

0:44:15argument is the same as as often gets

0:44:18used with musical instruments right i

0:44:20sat down at with a piano teacher so from

0:44:231977 to 1981 and in the course of the at

0:44:28four years of weekly piano lessons I

0:44:31learned not sane because every week I

0:44:35was supposed to go known and now and

0:44:39then and a techie eventually will play

0:44:42the moonlight sonata poorly

0:44:44yeah I i had no interest in any of you

0:44:46know and and the argument that somebody

0:44:48should have sat down with me and gone

0:44:50like it like here's the basic met here's

0:44:53how to basically play uh this Elton John

0:44:57song

0:44:57ding-ding-ding-ding-ding

0:44:58ding-ding-ding-ding-ding doing and give

0:45:00me a song and and just start there is

0:45:05it's very convincing because it's very

0:45:08convincing to me that that would have

0:45:10been a better method because it's not

0:45:12what happened

0:45:13right and it's easy enough to assume

0:45:14that before yeah right like I didn't

0:45:16like playing the piano and I didn't

0:45:19learn how to play the piano despite

0:45:20throwing tons of artillery at at the

0:45:24problem I never I never took the beach

0:45:26but if I had if I'd been if my teacher

0:45:31had been a long hair had been like

0:45:33here's how to play on John man get with

0:45:35the times i can picture myself going

0:45:37like yeah but in fact the way I learned

0:45:41to play the piano was well actually the

0:45:44way I learned was that I got hired in

0:45:46harvey danger and that's not going to

0:45:47work for everybody but but other great

0:45:50story eventually I came back to the

0:45:53piano on my own and I sat down at it and

0:45:56I started picking the way and it because

0:45:58I had because I because i needed to and

0:46:02now i am I do play the piano but i have

0:46:06no depth or breath at the thing right

0:46:10mi my mom by contrast can sit down and

0:46:14sight read and play

0:46:18she painted up as a kid well yeah

0:46:21because she was taught piano in the in

0:46:23the nineteen thirties or night back in

0:46:25the sticks in Ohio

0:46:26yeah the one where where they where the

0:46:28where the teacher sat on a tall stool

0:46:31and hit you with a rod and I'm not

0:46:34broken foot him I get kicked your broken

0:46:38foot until you learn to play the piano

0:46:38how but my of my mom characterizes

0:46:42herself as having no gift and she can

0:46:48sit down and play Tchaikovsky and I and

0:46:54I look and I'm just like mom that's

0:46:55incredible back that's amazing

0:46:58and she just just misses it with a wave

0:47:00of her hand like well I'm you know I'm a

0:47:02I'm a poor musician and the I just was

0:47:06forced to learn this

0:47:09I was forced to acquire this this habit

0:47:12for this is probably like learning long

0:47:14division it's not anything we go I i

0:47:16really want to be able to work out some

0:47:18of this division I've heard on the radio

0:47:19it sounds like work

0:47:21yeah super and I think she approached it

0:47:23that way and when she sits down she does

0:47:25play that music for pleasure she likes

0:47:28to hear it and she likes to you know

0:47:30feel her fingers kind of figure out the

0:47:34patterns again but she her take on it is

0:47:38very is almost completely absent of art

0:47:42right she just learned a thing up by

0:47:46rote and now she can do it she sees the

0:47:49black dots on a piece of paper and she

0:47:51knows that that means push down this key

0:47:53to my ear

0:47:57it sounds beautiful look I mean I

0:48:00wouldn't i wouldn't say that it was like

0:48:02a like art fall but i mean it's it's

0:48:06like she's playing this beautiful music

0:48:09from the page and if she and I were both

0:48:11invited into a hotel lobby and someone

0:48:14said would someone like to sit at the

0:48:16piano and entertain us like what my mom

0:48:18can do is a thousand times more useful

0:48:21in that situation than what i can do you

0:48:23play commander thinks aloud twice

0:48:24yeah I would sit down and be like yo ya

0:48:27died out back dumped out by ok i got

0:48:32three more stick around everybody and

0:48:36and so I mean honestly the idea that

0:48:39that that that honey attracts more flies

0:48:43than vinegar that the is that the folks

0:48:47saying is that the Bill Clinton saying

0:48:48you catch you catch more flies with

0:48:50honey than vinegar i think is is the

0:48:52folks saying yeah right and so this idea

0:48:54that the way to teach people the best

0:48:56way or the only way to teach people is

0:48:58by um you know appealing to their to

0:49:03their interests

0:49:05it always a I mean what it suggests to

0:49:09me is that that the earlier step of like

0:49:14establishing their interests was super

0:49:17duper important and a lot of times that

0:49:19just comes that windows closed now we

0:49:22are at least it's hard to pry open the

0:49:24way the way that window got established

0:49:26was that mom and dad were like oh yeah

0:49:28just go play with the fucking ipad while

0:49:31mommy and daddy talk or whatever you

0:49:33know like the the initial establishment

0:49:36of the interests was not i mean most

0:49:38people don't take the care that you took

0:49:40to say like I want you to get into this

0:49:43i want to show you this you know i mean

0:49:45most adults that I mean they're talking

0:49:47about their kids talk about the ipad as

0:49:51you know sort of there there little

0:49:53guilty about it like we yeah we give

0:49:55them the ipad for sure usually just to

0:49:59give us some space for some time to

0:50:01think ur so we can speak a paragraph

0:50:03this week to ya and so and that is that

0:50:06is like that is omaha beach in this

0:50:10kid's mind like here's the period is

0:50:13like you for years from now we're going

0:50:16to talk about well the only way we can

0:50:18get Johnny to learn to read is by latch

0:50:21is by putting him on minecraft blogs

0:50:23because that's his interest you know

0:50:25that's where that's where his interests

0:50:27are and it's like I wonder why that's

0:50:29true and and it all seems very passive

0:50:34right it always seems like we're just

0:50:36reacting and all Johnny wants to do is

0:50:39is strums guitar so we're trying to

0:50:42teach him English bye-bye

0:50:45you know having him learn songs in

0:50:47english reading fake books he's reading

0:50:50fake books and I think it's a thread

0:50:51through this that has family on Hugh

0:50:57that has been I'm sure much better

0:50:59articulated by people for centuries but

0:51:01but there does seem to be a basic

0:51:03problem which is and this sounds like

0:51:05the plot of some kind of a kids movie

0:51:07yes yes yes lot of kids we but you know

0:51:10the thing is when you're when you're a

0:51:11grown-up and you gotta look kid and you

0:51:14got all these ideas and like some of the

0:51:16some popular kinds of ideas are like I

0:51:18you need to go um take karate or you

0:51:21need to go go to soccer because there's

0:51:24character things and you'll get exercise

0:51:26and there's all these different things

0:51:27but you know whatever there's a hundred

0:51:28different reasons why you would do

0:51:29something like send your kid to soccer

0:51:31or importantly in this case why you say

0:51:33i want you to take piano lessons now the

0:51:37thing is you as a parent see this in

0:51:39such a vastly different way you see it

0:51:41as like hey maybe this could be the next

0:51:43client gold or you see this as I wish

0:51:46I'd learned how to play piano or any of

0:51:47the dozens of other reasons why it seems

0:51:49like a great idea the kind of kind of

0:51:52force a kid into learning a musical

0:51:54instrument or learning of you know any

0:51:57kind of crafty things going to

0:51:58controlling lessons and the thing is i

0:52:00can I apologize for how obvious it's

0:52:01obvious this is but I think about it a

0:52:03lot

0:52:03the way I describe what might do what my

0:52:05daughter does like my daughter is not

0:52:06sitting around thinking about making

0:52:08great sequential art she just likes the

0:52:10way it feels to drawing a page i think i

0:52:12think she likes smooching her hands

0:52:14around the glue

0:52:14I think she likes the way that feels and

0:52:16i think it's it's important to I don't

0:52:20know how to do this but I feel like it's

0:52:21important to get give opportunities for

0:52:24people to play like that and I think

0:52:26about you see me on your piano i called

0:52:28The Wolverine cord right where I I hold

0:52:30my pinky with my thumb and I play triads

0:52:33with my three middle fingers you see me

0:52:36do this shoot that snaked not damaged

0:52:39mix all right over for chili but like

0:52:42that's how I learned I learned because I

0:52:44wanted to be able to like I just thought

0:52:46that was fun I'd sit around you know it

0:52:48down time you know at church events we

0:52:50hang out and like play try to figure out

0:52:52how to play songs on the piano

0:52:54just cuz it was fun it felt good it's

0:52:56not good you could play loud you could

0:52:57bang on it it was play much more than it

0:53:00was learning i'm not saying i'm in a

0:53:02mini prodigy piano but I see this in my

0:53:04daughter so yeah my brought my acoustic

0:53:06guitar home it the office forever i

0:53:08finally brought it home so we could you

0:53:09know it's fun to just play around

0:53:11I thought a long time ago will claim

0:53:13will play songs and sing together but

0:53:15what she really likes his wife Sonia

0:53:17photo this she likes walking up to it

0:53:18and kind of banging on the strings

0:53:20standing over on the stand like almost

0:53:22like it's a cello and iíve shown her

0:53:25how to do two chords that she can mostly

0:53:28replicate the one she's best that is in

0:53:30a 5 that was the easiest course i could

0:53:32think of in terms of you know the the

0:53:35strings are too hard to press down you

0:53:36know the two middle strings at the 2nd

0:53:38fret and then I should our after that

0:53:42children a minor and she's not great at

0:53:44it but she still stand in front of the

0:53:46guitar facing the guitar and with the

0:53:48totally wrong finger push down mostly

0:53:51the right places right on the front

0:53:52which drives me crazy because it buzzes

0:53:54but she sits there and she plays these

0:53:56little chords really shitty and then she

0:53:58goes into this crazy d Boone thing where

0:53:59she just keeps going up and down and

0:54:01back and you know what it's like to be a

0:54:02little kid playing with a guitar and I'm

0:54:04put it out of my mind like this katar

0:54:06the strings are going to break the

0:54:07guitar my break

0:54:08she has so much fun just banging around

0:54:10on that and I don't know if that'll

0:54:11invention ever

0:54:12Jeff utility i was thinking more like

0:54:14Stanley Stanley Clarke still join whom I

0:54:17think enough Stanley Clark Jordan like

0:54:20Jordan yeah this married name

0:54:22yeah you said teacher just teach you

0:54:24some tips start teaching songs like you

0:54:26know it's it doesn't just drawn persuade

0:54:28a button boom

0:54:31well I think what you're getting at is

0:54:34this is this is this crucial thing

0:54:36justin is not about me I'm trying to

0:54:37remember like how fun it is just fuck

0:54:39around and have nobody sitting there

0:54:41correcting you and just if she wants to

0:54:43bang around on that guitar like go ahead

0:54:45go nuts and sometimes i will say hey you

0:54:47want to see the other court you want to

0:54:48so think maybe I'll get a ratard for a

0:54:50birthday I don't know she didn't love

0:54:51the piano we got her but she's gonna

0:54:53play and it'll be fun and it's not going

0:54:55to be pressure for her to get back up

0:54:57segovia by the time she's aight i think

0:54:58it's more and I think it's more probably

0:55:00more fun for her to play on Dad's guitar

0:55:01than to have one of her own but like I a

0:55:05big part of this is this can take it

0:55:08dovetails with this this idea that

0:55:10there's nothing new Under the Sun but

0:55:12that that so much of so much of making

0:55:17art is

0:55:18reinventing the wheel and you can sit

0:55:22there and and shape their little hands

0:55:25and and and teach teach teach teach

0:55:28teach like like art is a thing that can

0:55:33be known and I think that that is in a

0:55:36way a really important part of the

0:55:38process but then there's that other

0:55:40thing which is at a certain point and a

0:55:44and I i think the jury's out where that

0:55:47point is but you have to reinvent it

0:55:50somehow you have to be able to act as

0:55:53though as though it's like beyond

0:55:57thunderdome and you are a tribe of kids

0:56:01living it in a in a lucky little valley

0:56:07that's separated by a great desert

0:56:09uh-huh and it is the dying time and the

0:56:13and you are you are inventing your

0:56:15culture with just the faintest memory of

0:56:19what the what came before you write that

0:56:23it has to feel like your own even if

0:56:25it's your own cover of The Kinks there

0:56:27has to be something about it i mean i

0:56:29don't that's exactly what you're saying

0:56:30but like I think part of it is that it

0:56:31really feels like some kind of

0:56:32transplanted culture when you try to to

0:56:35pop this culture into a kid like an

0:56:37Atari cartridge and then expect them to

0:56:39go all da bak or something like yeah you

0:56:42can you can see the kids in in

0:56:43rock-and-roll the kids in their twenties

0:56:45now whose parents put them in Nirvana

0:56:50t-shirts when they were three years old

0:56:5318 years ago right i mean you can kind

0:56:58of see them you see them even i'm sure a

0:57:00like they're there are a couple of kids

0:57:03and my daughter's preschool who have a

0:57:06moment's if you will you know like their

0:57:10parents are trying to push them toward

0:57:13being cool from a very young age in the

0:57:18hopes i think that being that if they

0:57:20are cool that'll that they won't have a

0:57:24heartbreaker they won't have problems

0:57:25growing up

0:57:26like the solution the solution to so

0:57:30many problems is to just be one of the

0:57:33cool ones and I mean and that is that's

0:57:38that's that's painful and true well yeah

0:57:41well put

0:57:42it's so different from my approach which

0:57:44is to say you are going to be a nerd i'm

0:57:48going to force you to be one it's going

0:57:51to suck and through that through that

0:57:55heart that heart those many many hard

0:57:57years you're gonna grow up to really

0:57:59appreciate um how how fun it is to be an

0:58:04adult and my name's see the pain not

0:58:06have your dad not have your dad forcing

0:58:09you to take your letter you're helping

0:58:11her understand that she will be an

0:58:13outsider

0:58:14yeah right and that because you know

0:58:16being an outsider

0:58:17well I mean ultimately like she's going

0:58:19to decide right and and she's already

0:58:20decided that what she's gonna be as a

0:58:22princess but and that's wonderful

0:58:25because a my understanding is they make

0:58:27a lot of money

0:58:28ok let's get down the princess cut but

0:58:32that but watching I'm house facebook

0:58:34came through my feed the other day I

0:58:37somehow got on facebook again found the

0:58:40key under your mat I'm really trying to

0:58:43curate my feet I'm not reading the news

0:58:45on twitter anymore i read iced I I

0:58:47signed on to the internet the other day

0:58:50and then and I was like you know what

0:58:53I'm you like that in front of the

0:58:56internet but i'm gonna go over he went

0:58:59down to the cold room open the cage went

0:59:01in putting your key i'm gonna go over to

0:59:04Twitter and see and I'm you know what

0:59:06i'm gonna do i'm going to go over to

0:59:07Twitter i'm going to read the news i

0:59:09haven't done it in a couple of weeks I'm

0:59:11gonna just going to read my news feed

0:59:12and see what I come up with and I got

0:59:15over there and i started reading and I i

0:59:18read a couple of things about the

0:59:20Ukraine that were interesting and I saw

0:59:22a couple of things you know the

0:59:24about this and that I thought were yeah

0:59:26that's pretty interesting and then I

0:59:28clicked on a retweet of somebody's and I

0:59:34read it somebody's blog post and I was

0:59:36like wow okay and that blog post was in

0:59:38response to another blog post about that

0:59:40they felt about the dave chappelle i

0:59:42read that last night that was a good

0:59:44luck you reach it with it and that I

0:59:45thought that that person's writing was

0:59:47really great that both pieces were were

0:59:50very nuanced that yeah it was it was a

0:59:53fascinating conversation and gutsy gutsy

0:59:55anak but it got into a little bit of you

0:59:57know more my stomach was starting to get

0:59:59butterflies

0:59:59butterflies

1:00:00because I was like well I don't know

1:00:01instead I don't I don't have a comment

1:00:03here I'm just I'm just just reading the

1:00:06news just reasons in your head you can

1:00:08just imagine the thousand different kind

1:00:10of like intellectual bumfights there

1:00:11that you like just watch too drunk I

1:00:15said each other that's exactly right i

1:00:17mean but like I just like this just

1:00:19people representing the absolute worst

1:00:22yeah point of view on either side of

1:00:24this I just gonna be in each other with

1:00:26sticks

1:00:27I very studiously did not read the

1:00:29comments on either blog you know I

1:00:31didn't want to go down i just read the i

1:00:34just read the blog didn't see any

1:00:35reaction gifs just didn't didn't get did

1:00:37you know just stay away from it stand

1:00:39away from it and then I and then I'm so

1:00:42I'm back up to the surface of Twitter

1:00:44and i'm reading along and and then

1:00:47there's and Hodgman has a little a link

1:00:49to his tumblr and i click on it and it

1:00:52is a graph of the all the John's that

1:00:57have influenced each other and all the

1:00:59John's that are that make a very

1:01:02interesting little cluster of john hope

1:01:06that was a first draft and it said

1:01:09Flansburg lanell huh

1:01:12Stuart attachment called Najman Colton

1:01:14and I'm just innocently looking at the

1:01:19fucking news for two seconds and i click

1:01:23on a friend's link which was a link that

1:01:25he was that was just somebody made and

1:01:29he was real tweeting it i'm sure he

1:01:31didn't do that and and now I've only

1:01:35been on the news side of this thing for

1:01:38for honestly two minutes and I feel bad

1:01:42I've seen a thing that made me feel bad

1:01:44right and i just closed it all down was

1:01:47just like why did I go and read the news

1:01:49on Twitter I am trying to I'm trying to

1:01:53not have those feelings and under the

1:01:56Internet provides so many opportunities

1:01:58hell did well you did exactly what you

1:02:00should do you sound like you came into

1:02:02it thinking maybe it'll be different

1:02:03maybe that's why i'm away this is a fun

1:02:05thing

1:02:06yep i'm gonna go over there I'm gonna

1:02:07read some stuff I'm going to learn about

1:02:08the news i'm going to see people making

1:02:10things

1:02:11and so but anyway as I closed down

1:02:13twitter i went over to facebook i had

1:02:18not had enough i had not had enough

1:02:20Marilyn I went to facebook and I and for

1:02:24whatever reason the facebook like

1:02:26alchemy of just like Oh what would you

1:02:29like to see today I mean they're like

1:02:31the room temperature deserted you're on

1:02:32there just like would you like some flan

1:02:36that's the one kind of dessert we have

1:02:38no no that's not true we have flan and

1:02:40we have a new scale and surprising thing

1:02:43so one surprising thing you need to know

1:02:45today about flan and I get over there

1:02:48and and the person's website that I go

1:02:52to the third the person's facebook page

1:02:54that I go to see is a guy I haven't

1:02:56thought of in years

1:02:57some guy went to high school with who uh

1:03:00he was a bro when we were in high school

1:03:03and I'm deposited on his facebook page

1:03:07and he is a bro now he's an Alaska bro

1:03:11he has a he he's a 45 year old man with

1:03:14a goatee not a mustache either like just

1:03:18a chin goatee and his his his facebook

1:03:22pages just picture after picture of him

1:03:24wakeboarding and of him doing some more

1:03:29wakeboarding and other kind of you know

1:03:31him holding a giant salmon and him you

1:03:35know with his arm around his like

1:03:37embarrassingly much younger wife and

1:03:41then him with his two adorable little

1:03:43like kindergarten age kids both of whom

1:03:47have super cool dude haircuts and his

1:03:51dad had a permanent sneer on all through

1:03:55high school and and college you know

1:03:57like ass like the kind of smug sneer of

1:03:59somebody that that had been born with

1:04:02money and a little bit of a pan he's

1:04:05sort of a pan man but but much more but

1:04:07like in Alaska that version

1:04:11he's he's grown into being a pan man he

1:04:13was a skinny kid now he's kind of us at

1:04:14least it looks much more like a pan guy

1:04:17but whatever his job is I don't know

1:04:19it's um it's probably something in the

1:04:22financial sector or maybe he sells

1:04:24bulldozers or something he's doing well

1:04:26he's successful guy and every aspect of

1:04:31his life looks amazing

1:04:33if you're if you are judging your adult

1:04:38life on the strength of the aesthetics

1:04:40of a bones brigade VHS tape from 1984

1:04:44right like he's the groan is a grown-up

1:04:47skater Alaska style and I'm looking at

1:04:52his facebook page and it's just like my

1:04:54head is just spinning I've just come off

1:04:56of this two minutes on the Internet

1:04:59where I where I got confused and

1:05:01delighted and then ultimately like sad

1:05:04and now i'm over here i'm looking at

1:05:06this alternate history of my life where

1:05:09it's like I know this guy like I haven't

1:05:12seen him in 15 years but I know this guy

1:05:15we grew up together and I'm looking at

1:05:18his life as presented on facebook and

1:05:22it's causing me to be causing my stomach

1:05:26to churn and I'm i feel light-headed

1:05:29I'm wondering if if I would have been

1:05:33happier if I just gotten really into

1:05:35wakeboarding because big because it

1:05:39seemed too good to be true or you're

1:05:41somehow slightly envious of his of his

1:05:44bro lifestyle is that in fact that the

1:05:48fact that it all fits together so well

1:05:49not that it seemed too good to be true

1:05:51because i know that it is exactly as it

1:05:53seems and that can't lie on facebook you

1:05:56can exaggerate their well except that

1:05:58except that I know this guy and his

1:05:59adult life looks like his teenage life

1:06:02it looks like is it looks like it is

1:06:04this is the life that his father

1:06:06provided for him right there were all

1:06:08kinds of guys at my high school that

1:06:10like had brand new Chevy stepside

1:06:12pickups when they were 16 years old and

1:06:16never talk about there was a kid at my

1:06:17high school who drove a 57 Corvette to

1:06:23school right

1:06:25and the license plate was a personalized

1:06:29license plate that said THX thanks

1:06:32thanks dad

1:06:34yeah right so dad bought him the

1:06:39Corvette and got a blaze got in the

1:06:42plates had to it like the ultimate just

1:06:46like here's my son and I'm gonna make

1:06:48him simultaneously the coolest kid on

1:06:50campus and also the world's biggest

1:06:53fucking chode like that he's giving you

1:06:55get an iphone like when the wallpaper is

1:06:57you give him a thumbs up for something

1:06:59about right

1:07:00it's the it's the original it's the

1:07:03original just like you are always going

1:07:04to be under my thumb kids so never

1:07:06forget it right thanks dad thanks dad

1:07:08and and it's a it's a thing I think rich

1:07:11dad's do to win the inert like make

1:07:14their sons i don't know like to it's a

1:07:17maybe it is a a and Agamemnon thing

1:07:21where you just like keep your son down

1:07:24because you're afraid he's going to kill

1:07:25you and and have sex with your wife but

1:07:31it but in any case like this was the

1:07:34problem when I was growing up all the

1:07:36the kids that were successful in Alaska

1:07:39were kids whose lives to like their

1:07:45ambitions were 22 well seemed incredibly

1:07:51simple right

1:07:53the that there's no neuroticism in the

1:07:57life of a guy who goes from wakeboard

1:08:00adventure to wakeboard adventure that

1:08:03not a big hand ringer right like Laird

1:08:05Hamilton does not he mourns the death of

1:08:09his friends who were killed by a big

1:08:12wave but he's not

1:08:15yeah he doesn't wonder or what you

1:08:18presume that Laird Hamilton does not

1:08:20wonder about his his purpose or whether

1:08:25he's doing a good job

1:08:27and that neuroticism is the thing I want

1:08:30to exercise from my own life

1:08:33it's the thing that I love and the least

1:08:35interested in any more about myself and

1:08:39so I go on this guy's website and I'm

1:08:40like that website Facebook thing and

1:08:43nothing about his actual existence

1:08:44intrigues me except what I perceived to

1:08:48be the simple like me like mono culture

1:08:54of it just like he's like he's

1:08:57considered got several successful

1:08:58doctorates in being 18 like he's he's a

1:09:02very accomplished has reached the

1:09:03highest lovely is like a 33rd level monk

1:09:06of of being a teenager

1:09:07yes might work and then from there I

1:09:10mean I as i was driving down here today

1:09:12i passed by the bus stop

1:09:14that's down at the corner of my block

1:09:17and Skeeter was sitting out there

1:09:18rolling a cigarette and Skeeter wears

1:09:21one of those Peruvian hats with earflaps

1:09:24and so-and-so is unmistakable because

1:09:28I'm you know like how many guys are

1:09:29rocking that look right now so I'm

1:09:31driving by the bus stop and I'm seeing

1:09:32Skeeter and its eight thirty in the

1:09:34morning and he's rolling a cigarette and

1:09:37I had that consciousness having formerly

1:09:40been a smoker and a drug addict that

1:09:43like oh right on

1:09:44Skeeter's having his first smoke of the

1:09:46day or maybe it's his second but like

1:09:49he's marking his days marking his

1:09:52passage through the day one cigarette a

1:09:56time until he can get his first drinkers

1:09:59first hit a dope which might might have

1:10:01happened already

1:10:03and you know it's like you're marking

1:10:05the day cigarette cigarette smoke

1:10:08cigarette cigarette cigarette beer tok

1:10:11cigarette cigarette tok tok beer beer

1:10:14beer beer beer beer cigarettes beer

1:10:17cigarettes beer and then the days over

1:10:18and and that's there's something very

1:10:22comforting about that and reassuring

1:10:24like you always you always have that as

1:10:27your stubbing out the last cigarette you

1:10:30have the next cigarette on the horizon

1:10:31and you just are kind of leapfrogging

1:10:35lily pad to lily pad throughout the day

1:10:38and you never are just at sea wondering

1:10:43like how am I gonna make it

1:10:44how am I gonna make it to dusk and and

1:10:48this guy his facebook page i was looking

1:10:50at is doing a version of that with his

1:10:53life it's just like jet ski jet ski tok

1:10:57tok TV show TV show here kitty kitty

1:11:01haircut haircut haircut and then now

1:11:04he's got kids

1:11:04so then it's hockey practice hockey

1:11:06practice and his goal is to make his

1:11:10kids really good hockey players and

1:11:12really cool kids in high school so

1:11:14that's his new project and there's no

1:11:19there's no neuroticism he never second

1:11:22guess is that he never wonders if he if

1:11:24that's the if he's doing the right thing

1:11:26his kid comes home and he's like yeah

1:11:28bad there was a skin on the playground

1:11:30is real fag and I told him to fuck off

1:11:32and his dad like yeah yeah like there's

1:11:35no there's there is never ever going to

1:11:39say like well son maybe you should walk

1:11:43a mile in that kid's shoes

1:11:45I mean it's just stories not even sure

1:11:48how to approach the topic matter and

1:11:50yeah like I'm not only do I want to give

1:11:52you this really kind of like mushy

1:11:54advice it's hard to understand but i'm

1:11:55not even sure how to talk about this

1:11:57ya know it doesn't do that doesn't pop

1:11:59into his head it's just like Oh some kid

1:12:01was a fag and you told him to fuck off

1:12:03that's right and that is the brewskis

1:12:08that simplicity uh you know it's so it's

1:12:14so ugly it's so it's so like dark to me

1:12:20but it's but if my own darkness is such

1:12:27a drag

1:12:29I haven't seen this page and been in

1:12:31this particular corridor

1:12:33um but I'm mama uh cheer you up making

1:12:37this dark

1:12:37ok I I said something a long time ago

1:12:39which is something along the lines of if

1:12:42you want to learn what somebody fears

1:12:44losing watch with a photograph which i

1:12:46think is really it's kinda true and the

1:12:48horrible losing my lunch room

1:12:51but no seriously if you look at that so

1:12:53my only addendum to that today is and I

1:12:56don't think this is just about facebook

1:12:58but I maybe this is just that I've

1:12:59become a darker person but I think also

1:13:00sometimes when you watch what people

1:13:03photograph or put differently here when

1:13:05you watch what people put on social

1:13:06media

1:13:07it might be the thing that you most fear

1:13:08losing but it's I think sometimes it's

1:13:10the thing they fear may not love them as

1:13:13much as they love it

1:13:14mm or maybe the thing that they're have

1:13:16equivocal feelings about our complex

1:13:18feelings about and one nice thing about

1:13:19a photograph that you put on a page or

1:13:21one nice thing about a succession of

1:13:22photographs of your absolutely perfect

1:13:25vacation is that it cements in your mind

1:13:28the idea that this when a certain way

1:13:29and meets a certain story and i'm

1:13:32honestly I'm not trying to back on this

1:13:33guy because I do this

1:13:34everybody does this when I take a

1:13:35picture of my kid and put it somewhere

1:13:37because this feels like emblematic of

1:13:39what I think things are how this how

1:13:41this thing is happening whether it

1:13:43really is happening that way or not but

1:13:44increasingly the way we take photos or

1:13:48tell stories or put things in social

1:13:49media or a way of like telling ourselves

1:13:51a story that helps make our life make

1:13:53more sense

1:13:54you can call that branding calls other

1:13:55stuff you can do whatever you want but I

1:13:57think sometimes when you put that stuff

1:13:58up

1:13:59it may be that that he has more complex

1:14:01feelings about those things or worries

1:14:03that those things have complex feelings

1:14:05about him setting aside his what's

1:14:06called a starboard

1:14:08it's called his boogie boogie night

1:14:09what's called as we're border wave wave

1:14:13breakers waverunner but I think

1:14:15sometimes that becomes a way I mean

1:14:18nobody there aren't that many people who

1:14:21primarily put up photos of their kid

1:14:23being unhappy or sullen because that's

1:14:26not the story that you want on the

1:14:28bookstore that you want on the one of

1:14:29the books is that we had a birthday

1:14:31party and it went okay at least in this

1:14:33one photo

1:14:34how many photos I mean like my

1:14:35daughter's fourth birthday party had a

1:14:36blowout birthday party for her at the

1:14:38park and there was stuff and like and

1:14:40she was like crying and running away

1:14:43from the group the entire time and then

1:14:45I'm honestly how the birthday want to

1:14:46get a funny picture for dressed as

1:14:47spider-man because a cool costume she

1:14:49got but but you know it's all that shit

1:14:52in life is so much more complicated then

1:14:54you can put into a facebook post it's

1:14:56gonna get a lot of thumbs and that's not

1:14:58a criticism because it is a new way of

1:15:00telling a story about ourselves whereas

1:15:02it used to be a really big deal

1:15:04I have my picture in the paper when I

1:15:05was about six and that seemed like about

1:15:08the biggest thing in the world I was

1:15:09photographed a library and I thought it

1:15:11was the coolest thing in the world and

1:15:13that became really like this thing

1:15:14showed people look look I must be

1:15:16important I'm in the paper

1:15:17here's me like reading a microfiche or

1:15:18whatever and I don't know I guess I I

1:15:21feel like it's not anything against that

1:15:23guy is not just to to check your

1:15:24shoulder I think everybody struggles

1:15:26with the stuff i think everybody looks

1:15:27at other people's stuff not purely in

1:15:30the sense of Envy in the sense of oh I

1:15:32wish with I had or gel I wish I had what

1:15:34they had her jealousy i wish i had it

1:15:36and they didn't or the boy that guy's a

1:15:37tool house his life so together that's

1:15:40that's what you put up that's what you

1:15:41do that's the version that you print

1:15:43because it's kind of expresses hope

1:15:45about how the world can be and and so

1:15:48like I think have to take all that stuff

1:15:49with a tremendous grain of salt

1:15:52you know that people had to be

1:15:53SuperDuper positive about lots of stuff

1:15:56in public until they get really scared

1:15:58when they get scared em I think when

1:16:01people tend when people get scared in

1:16:02life is the time they tend to be most

1:16:04honest about or most forthcoming about

1:16:06what they really worried about but most

1:16:08of the time you'll do anything you can

1:16:10to not have to talk about that and

1:16:11that's what those pictures are that's

1:16:13what does boogie boards and haircuts are

1:16:15is an opportunity like this is the world

1:16:17as I hope it is

1:16:18yeah i i i i went down a rabbit hole of

1:16:24talking about this guy

1:16:26oh where you know I i tried to make it

1:16:29one of my core competencies that I have

1:16:31empathy for bros right like they like

1:16:37I'm I'm I'm profoundly aware that they

1:16:40are human beings and that their that

1:16:42they're not monsters and and and sky

1:16:46there's their pleasures are simple

1:16:48yeah and there's this guy is you know it

1:16:50in a way like a guy i know well and and

1:16:52even somebody he was never a friend but

1:16:55it would was a guy that if i was back in

1:16:57Anchorage I ran into a bar I'd be glad

1:16:59to see him

1:17:00it was and so the way i was describing

1:17:03my experience of up watching him was

1:17:06what you know I got a little um I got a

1:17:10little shitty about it and and really my

1:17:14experience was a hundred percent

1:17:16internal and had nothing to do with him

1:17:20he who knows what his life is like I

1:17:23don't even know what his life is that

1:17:25was like when he was 16 years old

1:17:27um but you know my experience of sitting

1:17:31and studying not the facebook page of

1:17:35somebody that I know well not the

1:17:37facebook page even if somebody that that

1:17:40I'm that I'm interested in how they're

1:17:43doing but I landed on the facebook page

1:17:45of somebody that I did not buy I I'm not

1:17:49transacting anything with them nor will

1:17:51I ever again

1:17:52engine thinking about him too much yeah

1:17:55and wandering through as you say the

1:17:58their their idealized presentation of

1:18:01their life and seeing even in their

1:18:03idealization of their life nothing to

1:18:07interest me only things to critique and

1:18:09judge and field and and ultimately

1:18:13critique and judge myself against you

1:18:17know because i did not i didn't come

1:18:18away from that feeling that that I it in

1:18:24a way yeah I I've always preferred my

1:18:28worldview or methodology to those guys

1:18:32those old friends of mine from from

1:18:35Alaska it's why I left Alaska it's why I

1:18:38never felt like it

1:18:39I i truly belonged to that culture but I

1:18:45i was critiquing myself against that

1:18:49incredulously in that

1:18:52it feels like that's of that is that is

1:18:56a way of living it's a pen and a valid

1:18:59one and when he gets to the end and

1:19:01looks back at his life he's not going to

1:19:03probably burden his kids on his deathbed

1:19:06with a lot of talk about all the things

1:19:09he wishes he done you know that one of

1:19:13what i think as i get to be a middle

1:19:15aged person my great great fear the

1:19:17worst thing I could do to my kid is to

1:19:20start start now saying things like well

1:19:27I could have we could have lived in

1:19:30hawaii but it didn't work out that way

1:19:33or I wish died you know I wanted I there

1:19:38was a time I thought maybe I would do it

1:19:40make a television show but it did you

1:19:42know kids love boring and irrelevant

1:19:44stories that are ultimately really safe

1:19:46right and the thing is you know this was

1:19:48the this was mad as my dad got older we

1:19:51had a lot of these conversations he was

1:19:53like well I should have been a senator

1:19:55and I would say like that

1:19:58stop it shut up what are you talking

1:19:59about like your you lived an amazing

1:20:01life and you know this like this these

1:20:05certain niggling regrets and that's what

1:20:10I don't want that's how that's what I

1:20:12don't want for myself and and I guess

1:20:15ultimately like the the the passionate

1:20:20feeling I had about this guy's facebook

1:20:22page that caused me to like finally turn

1:20:26off the internet and stay away from it

1:20:28was that I was contrasting my self-doubt

1:20:33against his right and and perceiving at

1:20:38least that he had none and i don't think

1:20:41you could I don't think you could even

1:20:42go on my facebook page and perceive that

1:20:44I had no self doubt

1:20:46um put that but that steps self-doubt

1:20:50what the what good is it what is the

1:20:53evolutionary advantage of it

1:20:57I don't know yeah it and and and I'm

1:21:01saying all the I i would like to think

1:21:03in the facebook of my mind that the

1:21:07self-doubt that I am utterly riddled

1:21:08with has in practical terms had most of

1:21:12its usefulness running out of it already

1:21:14right all the times that I could have

1:21:16used that self-doubt i feel you have you

1:21:19pretty exhausted and you know I I need

1:21:21some of the other stuff now

1:21:23yeah thank you that's just weird give me

1:21:25a month give me a month with the

1:21:26opposite of self-doubt i'm grateful that

1:21:29i had it because it made me into the

1:21:32person that I am and that is I think it

1:21:36in the long run a good thing the

1:21:38self-doubt that I had contributed to me

1:21:40being thoughtful but I'm fucking done

1:21:44with it now plz like I would like to

1:21:47just act and eat and poop and live and

1:21:57not brood because the right the rate of

1:22:01return is like that at zilch now on

1:22:06brooding and so maybe I need to just

1:22:10start being a tambourine right it's

1:22:13really is a fantastic time for

1:22:15technology

1:22:16thank god we've got it brings the world

1:22:26right to your doorstep

1:22:28ah they're making all the bills for

1:22:31phone stuff that we pay all the internet

1:22:34is so that we can go and find new ways

1:22:36to be completely riddled with self-doubt

1:22:38yeah I can and seriously stopping

1:22:41watching the twitter feed has made me

1:22:44happier

1:22:44absolutely and taking facebook off my

1:22:47phone has made me happier there's no

1:22:49question about it and so I i keep coming

1:22:53keep coming maybe back to

1:22:57it's like it's like it's like stopping

1:22:59eating sugar right then

1:23:02then friday night you have an ice cream

1:23:03because you feel like you've deserved it

1:23:05and then your kind of back on the sugar

1:23:08training and the and the the feeds the

1:23:11various feeds out there that are trying

1:23:13to pitch lives to me are just there the

1:23:18their mind sugar and that is so

1:23:23antithetical to go to the story that

1:23:27we're being told by tech that these

1:23:30things are hurting their connecting us

1:23:32that there that they are I mean that the

1:23:34implicit live all this stuff is that is

1:23:36making us closer to other people

1:23:38yeah I just be honest it's making us

1:23:40further from ourselves

1:23:41yeah exactly and and and and and what's

1:23:44terrifying is that there there's a part

1:23:46of me that's like well for instance i

1:23:48just got a sonos system

1:23:51oh right the Sooners the home speaker

1:23:54thing I got a sonos home speaker thing

1:23:56and i said i spent a whole day setting

1:23:58it up in my house and i'm not somebody

1:24:01that listens to a lot of music around

1:24:02the house but all of a sudden I got like

1:24:04this really interactive stereo system

1:24:09and we had a really nice weekend at the

1:24:15house because there was music playing in

1:24:17every room all of a sudden where there

1:24:19had never been where that we had never

1:24:21been possible circle and I was like you

1:24:26know this is very interesting like this

1:24:28is this is a new kind of a new take on

1:24:31this and I'm and unfortunately like I

1:24:35only have four albums on my iPad so I'm

1:24:39just listening to these four albums over

1:24:40and over you feel Collins albums and

1:24:42then two other ones well yeah and then

1:24:44there's that then there was that one it

1:24:45was I got the I gotta try to get you to

1:24:48work i got the box set of the early

1:24:50duran duran records and personally what

1:24:52that meant is there's like seven

1:24:54different versions of hungry like the

1:24:55wolf because there's like the Berlin mix

1:24:58and then get like planet Earth in

1:24:59Aramaic and somehow I couldn't figure

1:25:01out how to arrange the queue so that it

1:25:03wasn't playing things in alphabetical

1:25:05order so just played hungry like the

1:25:08wolf like seven times

1:25:10anyone else in every room in every room

1:25:13but you know but it was really exciting

1:25:15and and and right away I start to think

1:25:17like maybe I should download one of

1:25:19those apps that allows me to raise and

1:25:22lower my garage door opener from my

1:25:24phone and then I was like I don't have a

1:25:27garage

1:25:28first of all and second of all like no

1:25:31stop stop it leave it leave it

1:25:36do not turn do not hook up your security

1:25:38system and your house lights to the

1:25:43internet like don't that technology is

1:25:47still in beta and you are not an early

1:25:50adopter of that shit

1:25:53leave it hmm i am NOT German and your

1:25:59skin is so tight so he says I don't know

1:26:06what are the winter but it's the line

1:26:08[Music]