Roderick on the Line

00:00:00 ◼   ► this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one [TS]

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00:00:19 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► hello I John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► oh it's going well how are you going I'm [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► doing extremely well happy anniversary [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► oh really mm-hmm do we have an [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► anniversary [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► yeah every year and there was this week [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► three years ago we started doing this I [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► don't really have anything special to [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► say about that i just wanna make sure I [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► didn't let the day go by [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► wow I don't know if you three years ago [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► thought that we would still be doing [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► this three years from now i don't know [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► what I thought three years ago i've [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► liked that too [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► I'm not gonna like the ocean just ways [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► wasn't at the Clinton administration I [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► think so it might have been [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► yeah yeah you have some listeners that [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► weren't even born during the Clinton [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► administration that's not true is it [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► true true i don't know i do this thing I [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► just drop a decade sometimes you know [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► about to drop a kid on a fool [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► yeah we're all going I can't believe [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► it's 20 years since ronald reagan was [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► president go away minutes [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► I just should be as I was coming down [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► here i just did the thing where I was [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► driving along and I just drove in the [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► wrong direction or I don't go down the [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► wrong way towards your office studio or [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► either in the wrong way [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► no no the wrong the wrong way toward [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► where I was going I was just thinking [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► you know what I was thinking about I was [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► thinking about young black Republicans [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► and that haha the subject classic Merlin [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► grown through that i only got you [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► thinking it returned and I did instead [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► of right yeah I went I went the wrong [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► way and then I was like where am I you [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► know I got to an intersection was like [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► which way do I go from here [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► the answer was no way that is [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► interactive and teaching what happens [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► when you think about politics [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► well it might be it might be true that I [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► should specifically not think about [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► young black Republicans because it's a [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► because it's kind of like ass like a [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► smoke fog that's not the log cabin [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► republicans is it [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► no those are the young gay Republicans [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► or not even young anymore [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► lot of them have matured into the [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► middle-aged gay Republican but there [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► must be some young gay black Republicans [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► imagine you could get more tail than [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► Sinatra i know for a fact there are I I [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► made it up I made it a policy to [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► investigate the culture of young black [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► Republicans and I was fairly amazed at [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► what I found really yeah haha you have [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► the most expressive voice it's like it's [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► like having an expressive face but you [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► can communicate such subtlety with a [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► hole with only a couple of syllables [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► haha i'm gonna cover that and so I'll [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► ride along but you drop the studio right [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► nice when today is the first day of the [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► seattle seahawks football-playing team [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► i'll go hawks and they are going to play [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► the green bay packers and so everyone is [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► very excited that follows that kind of [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► sport and you can feel it in the [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► neighborhood already there's a guy in [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► there's a guy standing with the with the [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► with an orange flag in front of the [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► parking lot where i normally park and he [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► has a sign that says parking fifty [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► dollars [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► wow just parking parking fifty dollars [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► and the game doesn't start for seven [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► hours [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► Wow and he's out there already selling [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► parking for fifty dollars and so when I [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► got into my parking lot so I just like [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► drove by man waved and he was like uh I [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► was like yeah yeah I've got a parking [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► spot i get back in there and there's a [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► bus a full-on like a rockstar bus with [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► vancouver plates already parked in the [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► parking lot taking up [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► however many at eight spots and the bus [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► is full of canadians who are who are [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► tailgating the seahawks game and they're [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► in there drinking already it's ten [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► o'clock in the morning [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► wow yeah so that that is just a [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► harbinger of of the day to come here [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► we've had a big dust up here because the [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► our football team is called the 49ers [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► and the races [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► yeah I know I know it's it's you know [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► all 49ers love gold huh [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► now i know right what about the people [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► became in 54 in 48 yeah right where [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► their parade was their stadium i'll tell [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► you where the stadium is used to be at [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► Candlestick Park which is you know [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► already kind of on the the rim of San [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► Francisco they built a new state in the [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► levi's stadium has been built in santa [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► clara what now I know pretty much [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► everything you stand for something on [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► the peninsula so you don't need to keep [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► track but basically long story short [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► ar-ar-ar towns football organization now [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► has the distinction of having the [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► stadium that is farthest from its actual [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► town of anybody in the NFL really did [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► yeah right i mean i'm not a football is [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► football day like excluding Silicon [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► Valley traffic like it's gonna take an [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► hour to drive there isn't that isn't [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► that crazy and still the San Francisco [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► 49ers they built a whole big stadium [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► it's crazy i read a rundown I mean you [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► got you go to sports gaming things [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► sometimes some you know it's gotten [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► pretty costly you might you might [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► football you might spend like two [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► hundred dollars on a ticket yes that's [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► is that real is that really true [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► well yeah because you know that's the [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► whole game of professional sports right [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► uh aside from the game of actually [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► playing the game the game is to is to [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► figure out a way to get public money to [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► build a giant sports stadium which then [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► the majority of his devoted exclusively [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► to private wealth and if you spin that [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► if you spin it right you can convince [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► the municipalities and the people that [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► having the sports team that injects a [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► lot of money into the economy [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► and it is somehow it's a public good and [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► right having it having a good sports [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► team is like a promotes the city in all [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► these you know these confusing ways that [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► can't really be quantified and then you [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► then you set aside whole levels of the [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► stadium for multi multi million dollar [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► private boxes and with a baseball team [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► my understanding of how this works the [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► baseball team place 200k play 650 games [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► here 651 dave was not including the suit [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► the the superbowl I think it has five [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► games a year in football season [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► yeah exactly standing amortize it you [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► got it that's right way and yet you [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► gotta charge big big big dollar so for [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► instance i have been to probably [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► conservatively 6,000 Mariners games [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► understand these are just step on um but [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► I have been a sense they tore the [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► kingdom down and built the and built the [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► but the steel taco that replaced it [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► I have been 20 Seahawks games because [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► you know who's gonna I mean I'll throw [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► ten dollars and mariners game go sit in [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► the stands get a hot dog yeah cares but [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► two hundred dollars to go to go sit in a [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► football stadium no thanks [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► yeah you know it's I don't have a super [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► strong opinion about it that's backed up [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► by how little i've actually chosen to [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► learn about this but i dunno it's [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► dispiriting its way I like I live in a [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► part of town where there are uh matters [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► like a lot of like quick working-class [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► people who lived in San Francisco a long [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► time and you know they'll wear the the [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► several 49ers hat and 14 and undershirt [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► and the 49ers jacket and they're all [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► super into it [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► socks 49er Sox yeah but it's just that [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► same little needy when you see people [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► with multiple articles of sports [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► clothing [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► it's like this guy's whose Twitter [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► picture is then with a girl like proven [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► something you know I knew a guy and [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► hunger never seemed weird I which 1i [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► don't you the guy right [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► haha i know a guy and hungry who is the [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► world's biggest Ramones [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► in and he was one of these guys that if [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► you ask him a question the answer was [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► the Ramones and it didn't matter what [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► did matter what the question always [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► bring it back to the ramones guy its [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► that's it that's it that's it scanning [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► the Ramones The Ramones you always bring [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► back to the remote there's an anecdote [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► here somewhere where he mentions like [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► Tommy Robin yeah you don't you're gonna [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► hear about the ramones one way or [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► another if you talk to this guy for more [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► than a few minutes and he's you know [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► he's a smart guy he's an interesting guy [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► he's lit LED an interesting life but he [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► decided that the the Ramones were the [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► thing that he was going to be the expert [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► on or the not the expert but like The [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► Ramones were going to be his church and [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► I and he gave me a lot of insight into [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► sports fans because it's like yeah if [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► you choose the 49ers and that's your [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► church and all year long you're just you [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► know you just praying at the altar the [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► 49ers it takes care of a lot of other [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► conversational topics that you might [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► have to think about you can just sort of [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► knots need you don't have to occupy [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► yourself with those questions because [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► you can always bring it back to the [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► 49ers now I think I think you're totally [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► right and that's certainly true that's [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► an interesting topic there's a lot of [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► things like that but you know there was [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► a time even before candlestick when they [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► just played at kezar and I think he's [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► probably seen keys are so i can write by [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► the Panhandle is this you have seen in a [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► dirty harry movie it's a it's a it's a [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► little stadium [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► it looks like it looks like a high [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► school stadium that they're getting [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► ready to replace but I mean it really [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► you read these people's anecdotes and [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► it's so sweet i mean i get caii kid [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► about the sports but I understand when [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► people talk about sports they're often [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► actually talking about family that's [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► important always remember when you make [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► fun of sports because you're really [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► talking about really know how watching [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► games and going to games with your [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► family you know throw a football around [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► the parking lot before a game and in [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► this case being out there was there was [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► a time when Morgan Freeman mode it was [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► time when a man can take his children to [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► a game and have it not caustic and my [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► mother house but you go there you just [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► go to kezar as a few bucks to get in you [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► can just kind of wandering it was like a [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► whole production like going to gain [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► today sounds like something where you [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► know you gotta plan a lot of stuff [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► no and then it's like the beers or nine [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► dollars for a regular-sized beer so [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► everybody's got drunk in the parking lot [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► before they go in I think we're seeing [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► this culture wide as a side effect of [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► the breakdown of you know the breakdown [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► of the above the big monolithic cultural [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► apparatus right let's save this one can [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► I just it's our anniversary I thought [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► maybe we could talk about something that [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► we can put out and now we're know what I [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► mean 11 and i got a fear a little bit [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► but I knew this episode of rock on the [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► line is sponsored by our good friends at [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► Squarespace the only one platform that [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► makes it fast and easy to create your [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► own professional website portfolio or [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► online store make the whole process so [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► simple they have an easy drag-and-drop [TS]

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00:12:04 ◼   ► teams in New York City dublin and [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► Portland John I've you square space for [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► three years now every episode of rock [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► online has gone through them hundred 23 [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► episodes in there still so great to work [TS]

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00:12:26 ◼   ► heard about it from your pals that [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► Roderick online listeners of this [TS]

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00:12:31 ◼   ► percent of any package they choose by [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► using the special offer code supertrain [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► and check out our thanks to squarespace [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► for sporting Roderick on the line we [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► could not do without you know that the [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► churches are gone for paid my fee ism is [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► you know is this is not doesn't have the [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► effect on the culture that it used to [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► we don't we don't follow the three big [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► networks anymore you know journalism is [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► balkanized everybody's got their iphone [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► nobody reads books [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► yeah but only for us but there's a [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► problem [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► we don't trust the government uh huh is [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► an app developers but but what if what [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► if what happens is that humanity revert [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► to its original its original project [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► which is is to organize itself according [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► two clans and tribes right and I no [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► intercourse in self-destruction that's [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► why we're here [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► that's exactly right and and that but [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► everybody you know everybody that the [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► internet is beautiful for this everybody [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► grabs onto their their their tribal [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► identifier 'he's right and then they're [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► bronies are there juggalos or you know [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► the one guy that's both the brownie and [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► drop below the Berlitz the nose Regulus [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► and then and then it's just it's a mad [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► dash for people to figure out how to [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► profit from that tribalism you know to [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► print up the printed t-shirts at a quick [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► before the tribe morphs and sell as many [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► of them as you can [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► who you know and you're walking around [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► town like in seattle the the Sonics I [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► guess the Sonics aren't team anymore but [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► the what are they called that the the [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► sockers Seattle soccers the Seattle so [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► the sockers they have because it had the [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► the in the 1700 thriving soccer industry [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► in the Pacific Northwest and and now [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► we're going we're going back to our [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► original sacher roots here and you see [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► people walking around all year long in [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► this in this soccer costume which which [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► is the color I can't describe you have [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► to see the Seattle soccer in fact that [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► more about the Seattle soccers the [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► Seattle soccer's their colors are like [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► colors that you wouldn't you wouldn't [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► make it [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► toddlers tollway out of these colors [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► because you would be afraid of the [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► effect that it would have on the kiddo [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► growing season is it green and like [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► cerulean sort of blue [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► yeah it's like puce grouping and [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► cerulean blue it's that they are there [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► like at some time and I test right you [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► would you if you made if you made a few [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► made children's blocks out of this you [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► would feel like it was some [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► it was some sort of seventies a like [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► Waldorf School a great experience but [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► here's a good sign John is that doesn't [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► look very flattering on the players so i [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► can only imagine what it looks like on [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► the fans of the sockers and that's [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► what's so extraordinary like they have [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► embraced the fans have embraced these [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► colors and you see them all over the [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► town and they are colors that not only [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► do not appear in nature but had never [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► really appeared in fashion before right [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► throughout the whole history of threat [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► from i observed history of fashion [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► there was never a time that color of [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► green ever was used [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► looks like pond scum and a pond at [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► disneyland so so they've so they've that [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► you know in a way they've done a [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► tremendous job of of a branding their [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► team because people haven't rejected the [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► color they've embraced it and you could [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► see a guy a mile and a half away and [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► know that he's the sounders now i see [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► yeah that's true that's true no no one [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► else oh you wouldn't use that color for [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► anything else that they they found the [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► one thing that they could you know [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► because it was safety orange or whenever [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► you just feel like the guy was like if [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► you're a fan patient you're a fan of [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► patriots you were like red white and [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► blue right is that right right when I [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► hold my in-laws my family they vary in [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► the Patriots but that's not as [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► distinctive yellow around my high school [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► we had green we had bright green and [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► bright yellow and was incredibly [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► unflattering my high school was powder [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► blue red white and blue but the blue was [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► powder blue and it's still kind of [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► haunts me that is how flattering because [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► our main opponents were black and orange [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► and they just looked so badass black and [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► orange just like yeah Halloween colors [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► and we were we were red white and packed [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► powder blue and our and our mascot was [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► the Thunderbird which isn't even really [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► a thing you know when you talk about [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► that though because we might as well [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► bring religion into the mix I I think [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► you talked about how recently about how [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► you know wasn't that long ago [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► that letter is a positive feeling or [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► negative feeling Presbyterian meant [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► something to you like an Episcopalian [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► meant something to you were you an [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► irish-catholic wearing an Italian [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► Catholic they're all these gradations [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► that even if you weren't like a super [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► observant person those meant the same [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► kinds of stuff to average American [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► people that never was like us today [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► associated with certain colleges oh you [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► want to brown or you want to know like [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► there's that certain kind of anybody [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► else would go likewise that wasn't a [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► joke on the simpsons talking about brown [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► like that doesn't make any sense but the [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► other thing that's interesting is first [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► of all like I think it's a think is [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► interesting to look at the way religion [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► changed through the 60 seventies [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► eighties when you got more into this you [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► know but promise on my ass but the [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► combination of like people become more [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► diffuse people's like total acceptance [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► of whatever was said by their clergy [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► person I think tend to get a little bit [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► more dissolute overtime but also you got [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► any more like they call i first started [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► buffet Catholicism the idea that you [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► would accept these things and not those [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► things and you know you might be [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► incredibly Arden partly Catholic about [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► these things and not those but you see [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► that now today in all these million [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► other things doctor who like in the [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► doctor who fan community is it's not [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► just like Doctor Who lots of people like [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► Doctor Who you Napoli really how [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► incredibly specific people get that is [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► true of anything when I listen to NPR [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► now i know i'm out of exciting [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► recognizing your bands on NPR and talk [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► about new pornographers yesterday hit [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► like I got 100 we're just talking to [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► these guys with beards I don't know who [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► they are but like there's so much you [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► realize instrument punk-rock apps think [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► about all the flavors of punk rock but [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► you know you know I mentioned with [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► Doctor Who because it is something that [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► I enjoy that I'm a small fan of compared [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► to the mega fans but I've never seen so [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► much diversity in a community that I'm [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► aware of that there were people get [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► along but at the same time there are [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► some people who really hate this [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► particular doctor they really love this [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► particular duck like the doctor to be [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► like an alien like that like the doctor [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► be like a human they hate this companion [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► love this campaign but like it's almost [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► endless the number of combinations in [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► fandom and you might love the companion [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► in this episode you know short stuff [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► like Star Wars I mean it's just weird [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► because that's something that's popped [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► up [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► as a fan thing especially the last five [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► years there's always been like sci-fi [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► fans but like it's this huge thing it's [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► true and comics but like it gives you [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► that satisfaction of being part of a [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► community while still being incredibly [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► passionate about something and on top of [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► it all [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► you're not just some nerd who likes nerd [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► stuff you're a very specific kind of [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► nerd and you're remembering sec you're [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► in it you're in a tribe but you will [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► really get to pick where you get to sit [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► and I I think that's both very [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► interesting and can potentially be a [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► little divisive because things start to [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► seem real but but i mean i agree with [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► you you don't have the same institutions [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► that she used to and now that we all get [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► to kind of pick our family [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► I think she interesting stuff coming out [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► of that it's definitely gonna make very [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► it's going to make for a very [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► interesting brand base to stick fighting [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► tournaments [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► oh now with a be sponsors or is that the [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► people you follow on twitter like I like [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► a best buy like people follow best buy [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► on Twitter and write out a certain point [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► all of the doctor who fans are going to [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► sit on one side of the stadium against [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► all of the Star Trek fans in the big [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► doctor who star trek fans stick fight [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► tournaments this is like England in the [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► in the late thirties you gotta pick a [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► side right but at a certain point when [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► the doctor who fans go back to the you [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► know the area around santa clara where [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► they have made their homeland and the [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► started their settlements yeah the Star [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► Trek fans go down to Santa Barbara where [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► they have made their home wins that that [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► the the regional stick fighting is all [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► going to happen between the sexes right [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► you're going to have to qualify for the [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► Star Trek team by fight you know you're [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► you're like you're Kirk cause player and [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► you're gonna have to fight against a DNI [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► cause player in order to get that right [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► at the end Troy deanna troi that's right [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► to different areas [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► I know that name I've read that name [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► yeah and so he's an empath i was i was [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► standing out in front of packs the [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► videogame conference the other day it [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► was some people I know and like and we [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► we had reason we had reason to take [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► recourse in our phones [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► for a moment and so everybody pulled [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► their phones out and i looked around and [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► i was the only one with an iphone how [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► that's super interesting let android [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► android they all had android phones and [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► I was and the thing is they didn't make [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► mention of it and I was like oh whoa do [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► you guys all have android phones and [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► they all looked up and kinda had that [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► like huh oh [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► doesn't everyone have an android phone [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► mind a lot of setup you guys are [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► Catholic [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► yeah right like they were going to [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► wonder why would you need to mention [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► what are you talking about whatever [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► you'd 0 is there another kind of phone [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► other than android phone and some of it [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► felt a little bit like practiced but [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► also times have changed just in the last [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► couple years when you wear now that's a [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► not only viable but like to some people [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► I guess so [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► always great greatly preferable for [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► certain people in many ways [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► yeah right and so and they just you know [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► back to like people poop and all of a [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► sudden I felt like I was on enemy [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► territory and I was like oh I don't even [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► care about like I'm not a person who [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► brand identifies but I'm used to in [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► rock-and-roll circles at least [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► everybody's got an iphone and the and so [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► you never have to think about what kind [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► of phone you have anymore you [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► everybody's got an iphone and so it's [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► just assume that that's the only kind of [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► phone and those questions are removed [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► mmm yeah but what happens when somebody [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► texts you and it's a green bubble utd's [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► do you think you think you can teach [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► anything like a steer might what usually [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► goes through my mind is oh now that [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► features working again or now it's not [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► again is the bigger level of blue [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► bubbles mean it's somebody you know why [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► but I text my text my mom all the time [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► and sometimes it's in a green bubble and [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► sometimes in a blue bubble and it and [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► she has a just like mine and so I feel [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► like that is that is another one of [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► it's things that like wouldn't that be [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► interesting if it worked well you're [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► like they're gonna make bigger phones so [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► that's going to be good for you that's [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► gonna be getting really really big fun i [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► have to say this is the thing I'm I'm [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► loath to say because it feels like [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► product promotion but Apple issued that [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► recall all right get the battery thing [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► and I went in and my phone my phone [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► qualified and they gave me a new phone [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► is it and did you get you five we're [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► gonna give you five s uh it's a that [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► they have a they have an internal [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► requirement that it be exactly the same [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► as the phone color you had before [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► that's cool still I mean but it's a [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► brand-new is a refurbished phoner [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► Angelus brand new phone that's awesome [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► going off the shelf and now i don't have [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► the battery problems anymore i go all [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► day long and my phone doesn't die and it [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► and it felt for it felt you know like an [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► example of I mean the my phones two [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► years old at this point and it had been [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► through a couple of different rainstorms [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► it went through the washing machine one [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► time huh [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► I yeah I i used it as a shuttlecock in [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► the in well as I was taking a carpet [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► knitting class the phone was pretty [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► badly damaged get what I'm back to a [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► badminton birdie [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► I took AI took am I took like a berber [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► carpet weaving class and you know you [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► he is if he used the phone as a little [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► shuttlecock [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► ah but the but the company made good on [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► their on their failure right [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► eventually yeah yeah they had they they [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► did a terrible thing they made a bad [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► phone Steve Jobs died and no one was in [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► charge anymore that's right and they put [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► a bad thing out into the world and then [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► two years later they made it right and I [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► am i i'm i'm pleased as well now you got [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► more battery time to give you more time [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► to be frustrated with the things that [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► don't work right on it [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► well not reach our church except i am [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► gradually I am gradually taking a [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► oops off I i put your app threes on [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► there before but i am taking other apps [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► off good-for-you everyday i take some [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► apps off and every day my I walk a [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► little lighter and and and I I feel a [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► little stronger you know you can you can [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► always get him back but you know get [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► them off there is a very freeing feeling [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► did you ever get that other facebook app [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► that you needed so I took facebook off [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► my phone [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► wow it's gone you're kidding gone [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► completely [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► that must have been hard well I you know [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► what it was i sat down and I said you [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► because because the logic i was using [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► was when i get a lot of work through [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► facebook people contact me on facebook [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► and they give me that offers two things [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► and if I don't have facebook on there [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► I'm missing out on all these people [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► these booking agents who are only [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► communicating through facebook anymore [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► but the more I thought about it i sat [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► down and I ran like well let's name the [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► top 10 gigs you've gotten from people [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► contacting you on facebook i was like mm [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► mm right it's mostly garbage you know [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► it's mostly a I do get a lot of i do end [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► up doing a lot of things but it's like [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► hey will you to be in it can i interview [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► you for my high school paper or I don't [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► you know frankly I couldn't remember a [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► single thing and and I felt like if if [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► Facebook the danger is that my facebook [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► page is still out there and so people [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► are going to send me messages on it and [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► then wonder why I didn't reply right but [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► I I can't hold it all that guilt I just [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► took it off i just took it off and I [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► stopped thinking about it that's you [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► know that's the end of the story cold [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► turkey and and it's a it's it's already [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► a delightful to not have that but really [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► really I'm its I'm just I'm narrowing in [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► on twitter i'm i'm stalking it [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► I'm thinking about it you know i'm [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► evaluating what twitter is for me and [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► I'm and I'm I'm coming close to coming [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► close to making a decision to having a [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► referendum on it [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► I keep thinking I keep thinking the [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► there's Benny's legitimately bad things [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► everybody feels bad about this is [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► generally these bad things everybody [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► doesn't like and I keep thinking okay [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► well I guess that that's good that we're [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► getting maybe this progress on that you [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► know on some kind of an issue you know [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► this is the same way that everybody [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► turned their icons green for Iran so we [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► can save them and then they change them [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► back and I keep thinking you know maybe [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► we've reached peak outrage and then it's [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► like it can't be 18 hours before [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► somebody a bunch of people are suddenly [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► mad about a new thing and it really i'm [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► not trying to be cynical because I [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► understand everybody has their reasons [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► but it really it's really i'm reminded [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► when I start getting frustrated about it [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► because it becomes not as fun to use if [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► that's most of what's there [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► it's like you know you're never gonna be [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► not outraged there's always gonna be [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► another thing that you have to have [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► blind righteous outrage about and the [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► bar seems to be getting impossibly low [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► for that it's solo that's exactly right [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► and at least one thing i want to clarify [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► this because I i can hear these words [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► coming out of my mouth and I know what [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► it sounds like i'm not talking about [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► anybody's particular beef and i'm not [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► talking about anybody's particular right [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► right exactly as a writer about the [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► right to feel how they want about stuff [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► but sometimes when I look at the movie [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► listings i don't see any movies I want [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► to go to and more and more that doesn't [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► make me not like movies or hate people [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► who make movies but it does make me have [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► three or four weeks go by were like wow [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► this is really not for me [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► yeah that's what it feels like [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► everything is I'm the reason I'm having [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► this experience is that i'm at that it's [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► it's very personal right like i have [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► always been interested in what's going [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► on and I've always been interested in [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► engaging in the culture as it is now and [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► the end and talking about the [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► contemporary ideas [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► but i have never been someone who's felt [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► a special outraged about anything and I [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► find myself being consumed on a daily [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► basis with you know that that that [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► tightening in the chest and that knot in [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► the stomach where it's not a response to [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► the events that are being debated it's a [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► response to the debate her and and my [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► aunt and my feeling like I need to [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► engage in the debate and I need to be it [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► united we need to be in there throwing [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► elbows and like making sure that my [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► point is heard and all the stuffin you [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► know I did a series of events at [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► bumbershoot this year [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► oh yeah I want to hear how that went and [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► it was really great [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► it was you know I was sort of moderating [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► discussions everyday and early on in the [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► year we can depict various topics that [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► felt really of the moment and we had [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► these panel discussions where a couple [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► of different people who were nominally [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► experts on the topic got up and gave 10 [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► minute presentations and then we sat [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► together and discussed the ways in which [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► those ideas overlapped one another and [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► then we took questions from the audience [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► and you know it was like a like an [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► hour-long sort of words and ideas a [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► panel and two of the days went off [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► really really well they were they were [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► the first day was why beards why [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► twerking why now and it was you know it [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► was a little bit of a culture clash I [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► had my friend Elon who is a producer of [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► The Bachelor come up and talk about [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► beards because he has a kind of famously [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► unruly beard he's on the plane [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► he's a guy on the plane with diane and [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► seven alright and then I i had one of [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► the dancers for Big Freedia get up and [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► talk about twerking on the culture [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► twerking [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► well it's a it was a real cultural [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► exchange because this dancer is is it is [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► from New Orleans and came up in the [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► bounce music scene and through his [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► twerking skills and his bounce dancing [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► skills he's now seen the world right he [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► was a guy that probably would have been [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► had you know a New Orleans resident his [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► whole life and never been outside of the [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► city and through bounce and that the [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► cultural through because the world has [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► gotten excited about and has now [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► appropriated his regional culture he [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► gets an opportunity to go to Paris and [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► and dance on television and talk for [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► money work for money so talking to him [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► about about the world and how it is that [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► that his culture is so popular now in [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► his awareness that it's a it's a kind of [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► a moment in the Sun but but then he was [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► talking about how bounce is 20 years old [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► already and will and it will live in New [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► Orleans for an eternity [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► you know he was very sanguine about it [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► and it was just it was a very [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► interesting conversation and like how [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► you wouldn't think those two things went [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► together but that is exactly the kind of [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► program we were trying to do and it's [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► nice i mean you get a gloss on this but [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► it's nice to hear somebody who's not [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► super defensive about it and it's just [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► glad to see people enjoying it and [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► seeing it spread [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► yeah and I felt like he has some like [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► ownership on where he you know wants to [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► get his percentage from it right and and [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► and to his credit and I think this is [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► you know I mean when you get an [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► opportunity to talk two dancers about [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► culture you get a different perspective [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► you know and he's a he he is primarily [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► interacting with the world with his body [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► and like he wants to talk about he wants [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► to dance primarily and then he's willing [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► to talk about it and that was that was [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► cool and and [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► and exciting and then the the next day I [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► had a brownie and a juggalo come out and [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► describe their cultures that devil you [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► say [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► and really yeah and the the the brownie [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► was a guy you may have seen on the [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► internet called the world's manliest [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► brownie [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► he's a he's a a guy that works at a in [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► the parts dept of a harley-davidson [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► dealership in michigan and he's also a [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► brownie he's six foot five and 300 [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► pounds and he's got like a walrus [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► mustache walrus mustache that guy and he [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► had a real pattern about he'd been on a [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► couple of documentary films about [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► bronies and he was you he already was [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► sort of the thought of himself as a [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► celebrity and I and as a worldwide [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► advocate for bronies but the juggalo was [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► just a guy from Arizona name at the [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► dragon spell TR AG a.m. and Matt the [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► dragon was just a kid who was juggalo [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► and had made a had made a film about [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► juggalos and he had never given a public [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► presentation before and he got up and [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► started talking about juggalo lyfe and [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► this on the audience that I that I had [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► for this event you know just 250 or 300 [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► Seattle liberals and they really wanted [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► to confront this guy and I had I had [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► people stand up during the [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► question-and-answer and like and so one [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► woman said i was like i'm gonna read use [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► of insane clown posse lyrics now at Lana [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► and I want you to defend because he you [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► know he was saying like juggalos a [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► community and we are we're good for the [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► world [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► she was like I want you to defend the [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► misogyny and violence in this [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► and he very gracefully and a and because [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► he's just in the life right he he he's [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► not he wasn't thinking he wasn't he [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► wasn't prepared to be confronted but he [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► handled her question the following way [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► he said well you know the violence and [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► all the like a clownish language that [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► they use is well first of all they're [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► clowns we are all clowns and that is [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► because we feel like we're the clouds of [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► society so a lot of it is pretend we're [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► we're playing pretend [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► but but that violence and and misogyny [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► and all that stuff attracts violent [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► young men to juggle ilysm and then once [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► they're in the community we tame them [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► and and show them that we are a family [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► and that we and that they finally have a [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► family and it was like you could hear [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► the beacon here [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► a hush descends on the room and I i [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► think a lot of people didn't agree but [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► they that hear this guy was defending [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► his life and uh and I it was it was a [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► truly an example of a roomful of people [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► who left their with something to think [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► about who you know like there's a lot of [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► violent young guys out there that didn't [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► have fathers and if they end up in the [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► juggalo community [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► I mean this guy's point was there are a [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► lot worse things that could happen and [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► juggalo is a is a place for them to land [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► was like oh ok [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► right on you know that's like that [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► sounds like a successful event [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► high fives all around ok so the last day [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► the panel and I bet as it was [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► approaching out i was thinking back nine [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► months ago when I was when we were [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► throwing ideas around and we settled on [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► our ideas and I was just slapping my [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► head going [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► what were we thinking but the last day [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► the panel was why cat [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► why bullying why now and in trying to [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► put this panel together it turned out I [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► know the manager of grumpy cat he's a [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► personal friend and he's and that's his [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► job he manages grumpy cat and that's [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► that catalyst grumpy [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► it's the grumpy cat huh he's his manager [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► I think he also manages that little some [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► sort of 8-bit graphic the cat with the [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► rainbow and the triangle eyes he manages [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► that cat and he manages a one other cat [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► another famous Catholic busy [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► professional cat manager he's a [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► professional internet cat manager so I [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► know I'm gonna regret laughing in a [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► minute i think that's that's kind of [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► funny on the face of it [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► oh yeah and in fact he's in vancouver [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► right now I hope I don't give too much [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► away but he's making a grumpy cat [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► christmas movie [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► well yeah but uh the bullying topic i [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► tried to get dan Savage to be on the [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► panel and he wrote me a very thoughtful [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► email where he said I will be on any [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► panel you ever ask me to be except [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► bullying I do not ever want to talk [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► about it again [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► what because he's talked about a line [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► yeah well he's the he's the he's the guy [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► is the it gets better' guy he's the good [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► let's get back in there gets better guy [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► ok it was great except he has come under [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► tremendous fire as everyone in the world [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► does now who says anything off the [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► reservation out in the world and I don't [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► even know why he has come under fire [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► from inside that community people yeah [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► on the goddamn bowling topic I don't [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► know why I don't I don't I didn't even [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► research it enough to know why he feels [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► burned but he's like I don't want to [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► talk about anymore and I tried to get a [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► couple of different people and nobody [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► would talk about it and as as we got [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► closer to bumbershoot I was like I [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► understand why no one wants to talk [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► about bullying in public [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► and I'm wondering why I thought it was a [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► good idea to have this on the have this [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► is a topic and the more I thought about [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► it was like oh i remember why i thought [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► it was interesting because it is [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► interesting it would be it's a very [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► interesting topic it's a kid why is [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► bullying why has it become so a [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► fascinating to us at this moment in time [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► it is occupying a huge place in the [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► culture talking about bullying and what [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► is bullying and what does it represent [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► and I mean it's a fascinating topic and [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► I remember why I chose it because i [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► really really thought it would be [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► interesting but as it got closer and I [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► tried to get a panelist to represent it [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► and all I got back was like no thank you [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► i mean i would love to work with you [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► anytime but please know i'm feeling I'm [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► feeling down here John is it because [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► talking about trying to stop bullying [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► makes you a target for being bullied [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► well let me let me tell you what [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► happened so we got a woman who is a [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► stand-up comedian from Portland who [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► agreed to talk about bullying and she [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► she got up and her presentation was a [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► kind of polemical she cheat true on all [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► the received wisdom that you would find [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► on twitter about you know like we all [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► agree that we live in a patriarchal rape [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► culture where etc etc etc you know all [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► the all the sort of like we all agree [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► statements and what follows from that is [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► uh is this you know is the fact that [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► bullying is endemic in our culture and [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► that it is that it creates all these [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► terrible outcomes and that it is a that [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► it's even further evidence that that [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► that that are I guess that our culture [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► is unsustainably broken and then the [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► audience started and I i preface the [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► whole event by saying like we're talking [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► about these ideas in their contemporary [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► context so we're not just going to get [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► up here and define bullying and then [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► argue about it it's what's interesting [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► about this is like why now why is this [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► happening now and how does this relate [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► you know cats are very popular on the [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► internet right now [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► cats are a perennial topic they've [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► always cats have been around for [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► hundreds of thousands of years [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► why are they so contemporary and [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► bullying to has always existed why now [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► you know that was the idea [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► well so this woman gets up and actually [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► does give just a definition of what she [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► imagines the definitely she sounds like [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► she unlike the others maybe she opened [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► up this is good or bad [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► it says she opened up by reminding you [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► that we all agree on what describes this [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► problem didn't just open up that was [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► that was her entire presentation was [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► just yet fully like you said polemic [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► yeah was just was describing her not her [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► take on it because there was nothing [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► imaginative about it but basically just [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► reading hashtag bullying presumptions [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► and then the audience started raising [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► their hands to ask questions and i felt [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► like i was at a fucking chemtrails [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► conference every person stood up and [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► gave a five-minute long speech about [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► what they thought about boolean no [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► questions that were not even that there [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► wasn't even the slightest hint of a [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► question thread into these statements i [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► was like being at a tea party town hall [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► meeting and I'm sitting on stage and [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► that this hasn't happened at any other [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► panel that I've moderated and I'm trying [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► to you know I'm like okay that's great [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► well you know trying to interrupt and [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► say like is there a question in this or [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► do you have something at it and people [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► were shouting talking over me sound so [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► weird and then all of a sudden there's a [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► there's like an invisible divide that [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► starts [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► down the middle of the room where think [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► the cat guy is kind of setting up there [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► like okay dokey well and he leans in and [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► says you know I mean it's funny because [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► a lot of these bullying a lot of this [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► stuff we're um people don't know what [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► the rules are a lot of that used to be [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► solved in the old days by a like [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► basically playground playground [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► democracy right if you were a bully you [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► got Smackdown by somebody else and maybe [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► a little bit of bullying is what keeps [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► people in line and all of a sudden half [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► the room was like yeah and the other [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► half of the room could not have been [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► more appalled and they were like you [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► know who and I was like whoa whoa that's [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► you know that's that's he just [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► contributed a sentence to the [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► conversation it's not like we are no you [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► put your Spears down everybody and that [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► and I was as the moderator sitting on [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► stage just hoping that the hour would be [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► over [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► it's at that point you know I feel after [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► after 75 minutes at that point you go [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► like I don't know there's a way out of [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► this there and I was just I was I was [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► you know anything you say is gonna be [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► again this is not a value thing but once [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► you start once one starts feeling that [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► pressure you realize that anything you [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► say is likely to make it worse [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► there's nothing you can do or you're [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► gonna sound dismissive of people you're [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► gonna you're gonna sound like you're [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► taking one side more seriously than the [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► other and even in deciding like okay [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► there's obviously two sides here you're [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► going to give a lot of weight to one [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► side just by acknowledging that it [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► exists that's right you know what I mean [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► it's like the whole network TV thing [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► I've always trying to find the two sides [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► to every issue it's just somebody [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► agreeing that there could be a second [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► side of this makes it extremely [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► controversial yeah and-and-and that the [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► woman had set up the setup fill the [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► whole structure of it like well we all [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► agree that we live in a patriarchal rape [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► culture even matter people on the [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► defensive [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► well but the thing is like it to at just [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► to illustrate what you're saying if you [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► say well there are two sides to that the [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► the only other side to that is that we [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► do live in a patriarchal rape culture [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► and you're denying it in [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► like that's the only like you think of [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► actually I don't accept the terms of [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► your argument i want to argue with you [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► but we're not going to start with that [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► has to look it [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► yeah and as the moderator it was you [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► know I she she had a 10-minute [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► presentation and by the time she was [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► done like I couldn't I thought my job [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► was not to debate or my job was just a [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► physical facilitate the conversation and [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► so it's like right okay I mean yeah it's [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► like we all agree on cheez-its except we [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► don't all agree on cheese but if you [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► don't you know if you if you don't agree [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► with cheese in within the context of [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► that argument you are basically a cop in [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► Ferguson um and so anyway it was it was [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► an example of when I walked out of that [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► panel i felt very emotionally raw and it [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► it had transported me back to the place [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► on the internet that I least wanted to [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► be and I felt for a couple of hours like [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► this totally new sensation which was [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► maybe i am not i can maybe I maybe the [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► culture is moving in a direction that I [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► can't go you know I felt for a for a [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► brief moment like it was 1969 and [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► somebody was standing somebody was [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► confronting me on the street and saying [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► don't trust anyone over 30 and I was [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► like wait a minute I'm 45 and I am [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► trustworthy and the and the response was [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► just like nope [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► the end up right now you're [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► counter-revolutionary yeah right having [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► and now we call you a [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► counterrevolutionary you're over 30 and [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► that's where we've drawn the line and so [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► and and and it you know as as history [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► has shown don't trust anyone over 30 was [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► a dumb idea [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► I mean it was it fulfilled the purpose [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► of it but as a rallying cry it can seem [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► very sensible especially if you're doing [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► a lot of illegal activities like at the [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► time doing the felony of smoking pot you [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► probably don't want to trust that many [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► people over 30 but as a view of life it [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► does not have longevity right if you're [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► lucky that it's a moment it's a moment [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► in history [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► in 1968 i'm sure it made a ton of sense [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► but yeah if you hold on to that as a as [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► a as a guide [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► you're gonna be really sad on your 30th [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► birthday and it's anything amazing how [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► few subtleties you you'll find things [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► that began as things people shouted [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► right and then i have this moment where [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► I felt like oh maybe this is the [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► contemporary version of that it is meant [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► to be a scorched-earth policy [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► you're either on one side of the this [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► whole like constellation of issues and [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► if you're if you're on the one side of [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► it then you're uh then you are on the [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► right side of history and if you're on [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► any other side any one of 50 other [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► potential viewpoints are all rejected [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► because there's only one but there's [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► only one way of linking all these ideas [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► together and well that's a shame though [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► I mean I I can only go by what you said [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► but it's a shame that it was presented [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► in that way because of all the things [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► you're talking about that seems like one [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► that could potentially people could find [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► I'll get having made a slight difference [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► agreements but there's the kind of thing [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► most people kind of agree on which is [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► something that's something we'd rather [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► not have why is that interesting today [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► in a way that it wasn't 30 years ago [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► and why is that challenging today and it [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► was the way it wasn't 30 years ago which [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► is of a much more nuanced question it's [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► a fascinating [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► it's a fascinating topic icons my excuse [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► for what it's worth at my kids school [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► she's in first grade now and that last [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► year and this year there's like these [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► two like real big tentpole things that [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► are school both of which i think pretty [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► great [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► what is this thing called restorative [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► practices which sounds really fruity but [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► it's basically just this idea of trying [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► to learn to settle agreements by talking [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► about what actually happened instead of [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► like yelling at people and its really [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► neat it's actually ever need any other [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► one is bullying and you can tell that [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► every third-grader that place has made a [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► poster that's on the walls about [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► bullying [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► it's just everywhere really advise that [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► this is a little I don't know it's not [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► all that useful just saying no to [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► bullying sure that really solves it but [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► the thing is they want the school once [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► you understand the bullying is not okay [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► here that's on every wall [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► I don't know with the net result of that [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► is but I'm telling you this is a as [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► current as today's headlines [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► I think that the I think that the net [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► result is that a lot of kids that are 10 [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► years old right now [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► if you said have you you know is they're [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► bullying in your school they would they [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► would go what know something about [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► looking on the sides [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► yeah there's no bullying at all [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► and-and-and in it in a way considering [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► how much bullying there was that when we [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► were kids that is [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► you know that's I think a tremendous [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► advance [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► except except what you know the dark [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► side of that is like like our art I mean [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► are they prosecuting kids like are [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► adults hyper-vigilant over them me in a [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► way that one piece of that one piece of [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► it is the basic educational process of [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► saying something over and over often [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► enough and having different people say [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► that the same way off enough over and [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► over that it does start to see more [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► conventional wisdom so God willing that [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► would be it [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► that's not gonna have a huge effect on [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► some of his father's beating them up at [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► home and want to come into school and [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► find somebody shrimpy to hit that's a [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► much more complicated problem that [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► doesn't come down to as easy as stop [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► bullying but but somebody somebody in [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► middle school high school college for [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► chance somebody out there started that [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► bullying some time for some reason it [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► didn't that the just didn't probably [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► come out of you know spontaneous [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► generation so I mean I think they're [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► trying to you know put down the seeds [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► and I don't think I don't see it like I [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► used to you know you don't see just [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► because the way kids are supervised [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► today it's different but I mean yeah I [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► mean who knows who knows the the dread [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► you have is a little kid know when I [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► walk around this corner i'm going to be [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► facing this thing and that happens every [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► day right probably have you know it's [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► happening [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► wherewhere kid is gonna throw rocks at [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► you or or or put your head in the toilet [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► or whatever Oscars next to their lockers [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► lockers never not gonna be next year [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► locker they're always going to have [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► three or four friends there and they're [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► always gonna have a little relaxation [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► time by treating you like less than a [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► person and that's writing that happens [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► every day and we thought we I mean much [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► I've had that Shirin and so have I and I [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► guess I guess the the part of the [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► conversation that's interesting to me is [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► like throughout the whole second half of [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► the 20th century we have had a lot of [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► social engineering projects [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► that we that we introduced into the [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► school's right we're trying to solve [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► problems as adults [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► we're trying to solve problems in our [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► adulthood by going not back to our own [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► childhoods but into the schools of of [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► kids now and saying like okay well there [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► are a lot of racial problems in America [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► and so we're going to put kids on buses [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► and send them all the way across town [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► and we're going to we're going to enter [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► we're going to forcibly integrate the [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► schools and in so doing we are going to [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► solve the racial problems in America and [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► it's an example of adults not knowing [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► how to solve that problem in the adult [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► world and not being willing to make [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► those changes in their own lives but [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► instead deciding that what we're going [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► to do is go into the schools and we're [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► going to we're going to force the kids [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► to resolve the issue by this kind of [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► social engineer I exactly was gonna say [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► it's a kind of benevolent benevolent [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► like you're trying to do so but you're [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► doing it from a good place [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► yeah and it's a beautiful it's a [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► beautiful idea the kids you know the [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► thing that's so hard for me to accept [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► somebody likes to think of himself as [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► trying to do the right thing and being [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► principled is I know that if I say [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► something to someone not just my kid [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► that anybody if I say that something is [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► important or I say that I believe [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► something I could see that hundreds even [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► seriously hundreds of times i could say [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► brush your teeth before bed but you know [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► what if I don't brush my teeth every [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► night before bed and have them see that [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► that's cognitive dissonance and yeah it [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► hurts my credibility and more [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► importantly show you that's not how the [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► world works [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► so like when I was in in Tallahassee [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► know this is nothing its people Florida [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► please relax but I don't think I can't [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► think of a single person i interacted [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► with who would have thought themselves [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► on the face of it as a racist and yet i [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► can tell you including me when I moved [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► to san francisco i think i told you this [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► but it was maybe two months before [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► something that was a weird niggling [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► thing on the honors kind of the corner [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► of my consciousness became very clear [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► which is I went Wow [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► there are so many not white people in [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► positions of power here everyday a kid [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► that grows up in our town sees asian [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► people who are in power they see black [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► people who are in power you have a black [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► boss and I'm just here to tell you that [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► that was not something you saw every day [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► in places where i lived in ohio and [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► florida you see it but it wouldn't it [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► would seem weird enough that you didn't [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► make you change your vision of things [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► but i did not see the point of the point [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► I'm going on about is that like that [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► stuff will not seem real until you [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► actually see it when people just keep [TS]

00:56:36 ◼   ► telling you that that's the thing that [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► should happen over and over like in the [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► petri dish of an elementary school [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► it's really different from spinning [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► noticing what people are pulling each [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► other as much as they used to [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► I'm finding a different way to work this [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► out i have a black boss and she's [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► actually pretty great right [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► whatever what you see everyday is what [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► I'm saying at the those projects i mean [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► like integration was a culture wide [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► project we were trying we were trying [TS]

00:57:03 ◼   ► two hundred different things you know [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► affirmative action and and a bra and [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► well and busing and affirmative action i [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► think was a very positive like had very [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► positive results i'm not sure about [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► busting and and primarily it's because [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► we added a tremendous layer of [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► inconvenience to something that was [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► already inconvenient which is getting [TS]

00:57:28 ◼   ► your kid up and going to school busing [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► was bussing nothing was an unsuccessful [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► hack because it is successful hack right [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► within encoding is something that takes [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► an annoying problem and solves it [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► potentially in elegant way that was a [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► very in elegant solution that basically [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► made it clearer than ever will be that [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► you're going to be fucking super [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► inconvenience by this but may that there [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► is a basic inequality that we can't fix [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► and so we have to reset where the pieces [TS]

00:57:53 ◼   ► on the board and have you agree that [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► that's making it better [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► even they are fixing your basic problem [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► and and so that the I mean it in the in [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► the long term we have so much less [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► bullying now in the culture than we did [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► even when we lose internet stuff done [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► you sure about that i mean the thing [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► about the admin internet bullying is [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► that the internet is just a giant [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► bullying cesspool I mean I'm a 45 year [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► old man i would go on the internet every [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► day and feel in one way or another [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► bullied and a lot of the bullying is [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► from people who would describe [TS]

00:58:33 ◼   ► themselves as primarily as victims you [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► know like it's the it's the oldest trick [TS]

00:58:38 ◼   ► in the book to get on the internet and [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► say I am a victim of this oppressive [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► culture and so I am so mad that i'm [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► going to be that i'm going to be hateful [TS]

00:58:47 ◼   ► to everybody i encounter today at and [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► that is and that is and that's like I [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► the argument against that is that are [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► you miss Andres now I mean are you like [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► that the the idea that the idea that [TS]

00:59:02 ◼   ► this woman presented which is that he [TS]

00:59:07 ◼   ► had a perceived imbalance of power is [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► equal to an actual imbalance of power [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► and so a person can be a person who [TS]

00:59:18 ◼   ► perceived themselves to be in a position [TS]

00:59:20 ◼   ► of less power [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► it might as well be that that person is [TS]

00:59:25 ◼   ► in a position of less power and I was [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► like listening to a presentation I was [TS]

00:59:30 ◼   ► like no that is in that is exactly wrong [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► like just to perceive yourself to have [TS]

00:59:35 ◼   ► less power is not anything just because [TS]

00:59:38 ◼   ► you feel it doesn't mean it's real [TS]

00:59:40 ◼   ► in the words of Radiohead and and I [TS]

00:59:44 ◼   ► think the internet is full of people who [TS]

00:59:46 ◼   ► are like I perceive myself to be a [TS]

00:59:48 ◼   ► victim of everything and so you know [TS]

00:59:50 ◼   ► every time I go on the internet I'm on [TS]

00:59:53 ◼   ► I'm on a daily crusade to lecture [TS]

00:59:55 ◼   ► everybody hey I have an encounter with [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► to go from place to place [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► to go from place to place [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► place to place just pedantically [TS]

01:00:02 ◼   ► schooling fools right and left and it's [TS]

01:00:04 ◼   ► just like oh my god you're just [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► spreading you are spreading evil but is [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► like people are going to remember that [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► lesson you were meant to be teaching [TS]

01:00:12 ◼   ► they're going to remember that you're [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► kind of an unpleasant person [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► yeah and so the internet is a giant is [TS]

01:00:18 ◼   ► just a giant Hudson that's an ugly place [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► now it's not a place I want to be but I [TS]

01:00:22 ◼   ► think ultimately is there less bullying [TS]

01:00:25 ◼   ► in the world in our world [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► yes is there less bullying is there less [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► bullying in seattle than there is in [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► oklahoma city probably is there less [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► bullying in oklahoma city than there is [TS]

01:00:38 ◼   ► in lagos yes in almost certainly like [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► his bullying still rife in in the the [TS]

01:00:48 ◼   ► outskirts neighborhoods in Shanghai yeah [TS]

01:00:51 ◼   ► i bet it is because I i guess this is [TS]

01:00:55 ◼   ► one of the this is one of the big [TS]

01:00:56 ◼   ► questions of of like secularism is that [TS]

01:01:03 ◼   ► if we establish that we are members of [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► the animal kingdom which the secular [TS]

01:01:11 ◼   ► half of the of the world you know has [TS]

01:01:15 ◼   ► been a lot of time trying to say like we [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► are part of the system we are animals we [TS]

01:01:20 ◼   ► are not God beings we are not separate [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► from our environment we are not we are [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► we are not significantly different from [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► animals that we can afford to rule over [TS]

01:01:36 ◼   ► the world without consequence but the [TS]

01:01:40 ◼   ► flip side of that is nowhere in the [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► animal kingdom is anything fair and we [TS]

01:01:48 ◼   ► are looking at ourselves as [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► simultaneously members of this of this [TS]

01:01:57 ◼   ► natural system and also imposing upon [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► ourselves [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► incredibly unnatural thought [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► technologies and that is if that's [TS]

01:02:08 ◼   ► fascinating and wonderful because a lot [TS]

01:02:12 ◼   ► of those thought technologies that take [TS]

01:02:14 ◼   ► us out of the animal kingdom have [TS]

01:02:16 ◼   ► improved our lot in life and are [TS]

01:02:20 ◼   ► improving the world but now but i would [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► suggest never presume that any of those [TS]

01:02:26 ◼   ► things are real or that any of those [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► things reflect reality they are they are [TS]

01:02:32 ◼   ► experiments they are attempts and so [TS]

01:02:37 ◼   ► like when you talk about it like and [TS]

01:02:39 ◼   ► wanting to try on and I idea like a [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► jacket yeah so we're we're trying to [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► eliminate bullying even though bullying [TS]

01:02:46 ◼   ► is in the animal kingdom in the natural [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► world [TS]

01:02:50 ◼   ► bullying is one of the foundational [TS]

01:02:52 ◼   ► methods like every single animal family [TS]

01:02:59 ◼   ► uses precisely bullying as a way of [TS]

01:03:05 ◼   ► organizing itself bigger animals squash [TS]

01:03:09 ◼   ► little animals the two you know the the [TS]

01:03:12 ◼   ► litter of kittens establishes their [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► their their dominance chain like pigs do [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► it [TS]

01:03:20 ◼   ► chickens do it it's a pecking order [TS]

01:03:23 ◼   ► I mean everything we all of our language [TS]

01:03:25 ◼   ► for that stuff comes from watching [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► animals do it and every animal doesn't [TS]

01:03:32 ◼   ► so if our end game is to eliminate [TS]

01:03:34 ◼   ► bullying what is it mean it isn't just a [TS]

01:03:40 ◼   ► small little inconvenience that we are [TS]

01:03:45 ◼   ► that we should be ashamed of and like [TS]

01:03:47 ◼   ► that that should that we should continue [TS]

01:03:51 ◼   ► to be outraged and appalled by we should [TS]

01:03:54 ◼   ► be able to look at it and say this is [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► one of the fundamental principles of [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► animal life and we are trying to [TS]

01:04:00 ◼   ► dispense with it we are trying to change [TS]

01:04:04 ◼   ► and evolve so that bullying is not the [TS]

01:04:08 ◼   ► way that we order our systems [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► but it is absolutely in everything and [TS]

01:04:16 ◼   ► so to change it is not just a question [TS]

01:04:20 ◼   ► of like go into the schools and put [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► posters on the walls and indoctrinated [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► the kids so that they don't think of [TS]

01:04:25 ◼   ► bullying anymore it's not a small thing [TS]

01:04:27 ◼   ► the book kids are seeing bullying in [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► every walk of life and in every in every [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► aspect of human culture and so if if [TS]

01:04:37 ◼   ► this is our project [TS]

01:04:38 ◼   ► I just wish that we could talk about it [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► in this bigger sense of like okay if [TS]

01:04:44 ◼   ► we're gonna if we're going to evolve [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► into the Grays like like I'm all for it [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► let's go but if you're but what are you [TS]

01:04:54 ◼   ► going to replace bullying with because [TS]

01:04:57 ◼   ► if you go into the offices of Vogue [TS]

01:04:59 ◼   ► magazine i guarantee you there's [TS]

01:05:01 ◼   ► bullying at every desk if you go into [TS]

01:05:03 ◼   ► the west wing of the White House [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► bullying is everywhere and it's encoded [TS]

01:05:09 ◼   ► and the more white collar you make it [TS]

01:05:11 ◼   ► the more the the subtler it gets but [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► subtle bullying is fucking bullying so [TS]

01:05:18 ◼   ► so it just it feels a little bit like [TS]

01:05:21 ◼   ► the the posters on the walls of the [TS]

01:05:23 ◼   ► schools and the and the attention that [TS]

01:05:26 ◼   ► were paying two kids to eradicate what [TS]

01:05:28 ◼   ► we think is this you know this bullying [TS]

01:05:31 ◼   ► is another to me and in a way up [TS]

01:05:35 ◼   ► potential busing idea which is just like [TS]

01:05:38 ◼   ► we're going to go into the schools and [TS]

01:05:40 ◼   ► we we can't fix this problem in our own [TS]

01:05:42 ◼   ► culture [TS]

01:05:43 ◼   ► we're not even capable of seeing it for [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► what it is but we don't but we all have [TS]

01:05:48 ◼   ► painful memories of being bullied as a [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► kid and so we're going to go down into [TS]

01:05:51 ◼   ► the schools and create a kind of [TS]

01:05:54 ◼   ► fahrenheit 451 scenario where at where [TS]

01:06:00 ◼   ► no one is able to say what things are no [TS]

01:06:03 ◼   ► one is able to acknowledge reality and [TS]

01:06:07 ◼   ► kids are going to be 19 years old and [TS]

01:06:09 ◼   ► they're going to come out of these [TS]

01:06:10 ◼   ► schools and be like bullying is bad i [TS]