Roderick on the Line

Ep. 116: "Smilin' Alligator"


00:00:00   this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

00:00:01   sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one [TS]

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00:00:23   hello [TS]

00:00:26   I John I'm Merlin has gone pretty good [TS]

00:00:30   how are you going [TS]

00:00:31   we should break the fourth wall we [TS]

00:00:34   should at least you know Pierce the [TS]

00:00:35   fourth wall how we gonna do that [TS]

00:00:37   well I don't know bye-bye being a [TS]

00:00:39   forward-thinking let's be [TS]

00:00:41   forward-thinking appears the fourth wall [TS]

00:00:43   well I you know me I don't talk about [TS]

00:00:46   the show on the show right now I know [TS]

00:00:48   other people don't like us to talk about [TS]

00:00:49   the show on the show but but we're [TS]

00:00:51   recording episodes because early and [TS]

00:00:55   second them as you say because because [TS]

00:00:57   we're both going to be away parts of the [TS]

00:00:59   summer of this year 1978 and and so I we [TS]

00:01:03   hope that everything we see on here will [TS]

00:01:04   still make sense that uh uh as we've [TS]

00:01:07   done this before where you and I have [TS]

00:01:10   recorded multiple episodes in one [TS]

00:01:13   sitting and my dive founded generally to [TS]

00:01:18   be a success [TS]

00:01:19   no I agree they're nice and loose and [TS]

00:01:20   warm right all warmed up [TS]

00:01:22   ah but I've already blown through all my [TS]

00:01:25   grateful dead material i prepared [TS]

00:01:26   problem [TS]

00:01:27   yeah well I'm the thing I you know I [TS]

00:01:28   feel like the 800-pound gorilla in the [TS]

00:01:30   room is really a 450 pound gorilla [TS]

00:01:35   wearing a gorilla suit [TS]

00:01:38   I'm listening but you know part of the [TS]

00:01:42   problem with doing episodes because I [TS]

00:01:44   you as you have said many times you like [TS]

00:01:46   to feel like our show is timeless [TS]

00:01:48   evergreen yeah and you can listen to the [TS]

00:01:50   show at any time any episode will work [TS]

00:01:54   but the real world doesn't rude [TS]

00:01:58   sometimes right and we are recording [TS]

00:02:00   this show immediately after the [TS]

00:02:04   electromagnetic magnetic pulse [TS]

00:02:07   yes destroyed all of civilization and a [TS]

00:02:11   lot of our listeners are going to be [TS]

00:02:12   wondering you know did this happen in an [TS]

00:02:15   alternate universe [TS]

00:02:17   I'm how did how did they do it it's a [TS]

00:02:19   lot to explain but also there's a lot of [TS]

00:02:23   Macintosh talk and all my ears this much [TS]

00:02:26   mcintosh stock and you and I have very [TS]

00:02:28   studiously avoiding talking about all [TS]

00:02:31   that's a shame that we should talk about [TS]

00:02:32   the Macintosh talk because it's you know [TS]

00:02:34   because we want our show to be evergreen [TS]

00:02:36   we don't want to be top [TS]

00:02:37   all who are the same guys each weapon [TS]

00:02:40   ghazi open ghazi is all it's on [TS]

00:02:42   everybody's lips Bergdahl oil a popular [TS]

00:02:49   brand of motor oil [TS]

00:02:51   it's that the hostage guy i mean i think [TS]

00:02:55   we're giving away when this show is [TS]

00:02:57   being recorded enjoy the Hillary Clinton [TS]

00:02:59   book uh still reading it still raining [TS]

00:03:03   pretty dense I'm trying to get into Game [TS]

00:03:05   of Thrones are all my gosh [TS]

00:03:07   because I met george RR martin do you [TS]

00:03:10   know I kind of want to hear about that [TS]

00:03:12   yeah yeah it's a I mean you know [TS]

00:03:15   studious rock on the line scholars will [TS]

00:03:17   know almost exactly when we're recording [TS]

00:03:20   this now based on this topical [TS]

00:03:21   information we've given thanks mama [TS]

00:03:24   partly feels like that is destroying the [TS]

00:03:26   illusion that we are that we are posting [TS]

00:03:29   these from the future but but yeah so I [TS]

00:03:33   so I so I i spent the day basically with [TS]

00:03:36   george RR martin would you would you [TS]

00:03:38   forgive me a a slight law here at this [TS]

00:03:41   point turn [TS]

00:03:42   ok you are a man who exists out of time [TS]

00:03:44   correct your man who is not a fan in [TS]

00:03:47   italics correct right but that isn't it [TS]

00:03:50   fair to say that that in your studies [TS]

00:03:52   dark web and otherwise in the past [TS]

00:03:54   you've read a lot of books [TS]

00:03:55   yes that's true but you know I mean [TS]

00:03:57   you've read like you've read some [TS]

00:03:58   science fiction stuff right [TS]

00:03:59   I have you talked about it i do not [TS]

00:04:02   generally I mean and part partly it is [TS]

00:04:05   you know like I went through a phase [TS]

00:04:08   many years ago when I read everything [TS]

00:04:10   that Harlan Ellison wrote wow and i [TS]

00:04:14   really enjoyed it [TS]

00:04:15   although his politics were inexcusable [TS]

00:04:17   like it seems to be kind of things like [TS]

00:04:21   firefighters right i mean like is just [TS]

00:04:24   like the Ender's Game move his idea of [TS]

00:04:27   like what with the proper gender roles [TS]

00:04:30   were even 25 years ago when i read all [TS]

00:04:33   those books it was it's just [TS]

00:04:36   unconscionable you can't you can't [TS]

00:04:38   endorse it but at the same time great [TS]

00:04:41   stories great imagination [TS]

00:04:43   I think it is I think it's ultimately [TS]

00:04:45   like you know I i talked about this in [TS]

00:04:49   my i'm not a fan article for the LA [TS]

00:04:52   weekly which produced what I can only [TS]

00:04:54   imagine was a very entertaining comments [TS]

00:04:57   section that I absolutely did not visit [TS]

00:04:59   or we learned your lesson [TS]

00:05:02   I expressed I expressed to myself no [TS]

00:05:04   curiosity about it like oh I'm sure [TS]

00:05:07   there are people yelling at me on [TS]

00:05:09   they're not going to give them even the [TS]

00:05:11   pleasure of thinking about that i would [TS]

00:05:12   go read it but uh but you know the the [TS]

00:05:18   complicated thing about reading the [TS]

00:05:21   product of someone else's imagination [TS]

00:05:24   for me is always that I absolutely enjoy [TS]

00:05:29   the experience but but i am always [TS]

00:05:33   conscious of of occupying like some [TS]

00:05:37   rented real estate in someone else's [TS]

00:05:40   imagination for a short period of time [TS]

00:05:42   it's not a place I i want to buy or [TS]

00:05:45   build a house it's not a place that I [TS]

00:05:47   want to I don't want to put my [TS]

00:05:51   imagination there or I like there are [TS]

00:05:56   things that I experienced in in in [TS]

00:05:59   entering someone else's imaginative [TS]

00:06:01   world that I wanted you know that I [TS]

00:06:02   absolutely want to borrow or take with [TS]

00:06:04   me and like put into a cigar box if you [TS]

00:06:10   will in my imagination right i wanted i [TS]

00:06:14   want to walk over I want to walk out of [TS]

00:06:16   harlan ellison's world would be like oh [TS]

00:06:17   it never occurred to me that for [TS]

00:06:20   instance incest bias was a cultural [TS]

00:06:27   thing right i read i read Harlan Ellison [TS]

00:06:29   story one time where the plot was oh why [TS]

00:06:32   do we have a prohibition on incest [TS]

00:06:34   there's there are ancient reasons for it [TS]

00:06:38   but really it's a cultural bias rather [TS]

00:06:41   than a necessary one or or an opera or [TS]

00:06:45   e1 and i was like huh that makes me [TS]

00:06:48   uncomfortable [TS]

00:06:49   that's an idea that someone else put [TS]

00:06:53   into a story and it makes me [TS]

00:06:55   uncomfortable to think about and that [TS]

00:06:56   very interesting and that and that story [TS]

00:06:59   was a success because you know the [TS]

00:07:02   reveal was like poof out huh i'm gonna [TS]

00:07:07   take that away i'm gonna chew on that [TS]

00:07:08   and yet my my first instinct he even [TS]

00:07:16   when I you know even the star wars [TS]

00:07:17   universe or anybody else's universe my [TS]

00:07:20   first instinct is like okay that was fun [TS]

00:07:22   thank you for having me over and now [TS]

00:07:25   it's time to say goodnight and goodbye [TS]

00:07:28   maybe i'll come back and visit you [TS]

00:07:29   another time [TS]

00:07:30   it's an Airbnb of the mind you don't [TS]

00:07:32   want to lead on to move in yeah right [TS]

00:07:34   because my own imaginative world is is [TS]

00:07:39   almost completely fulfilling like I do [TS]

00:07:43   not I do not sit around and and ever [TS]

00:07:45   feel like while I've run out of things [TS]

00:07:47   to imagine like I am so bored sitting [TS]

00:07:52   here imagining things I would like to [TS]

00:07:54   see what other people are imagining I [TS]

00:07:56   mean you know every once in a while I do [TS]

00:07:58   out of just sort of uh I hear people [TS]

00:08:01   talking about something enough or or but [TS]

00:08:05   it's never a case of like I'm having a [TS]

00:08:07   real imagination drought over here and [TS]

00:08:10   I'd like to go somewhere else and like [TS]

00:08:13   and just to you know that whole business [TS]

00:08:15   that people talk about like I just turn [TS]

00:08:17   off and just you know and have absorbed [TS]

00:08:21   with someone else's story like i [TS]

00:08:24   understand the feeling of like turning [TS]

00:08:26   off but you know turn off and go into my [TS]

00:08:30   own the playland a library of [TS]

00:08:34   speculative fiction right and so so I [TS]

00:08:40   mean all the comments all the angry [TS]

00:08:41   comments that that made their way to me [TS]

00:08:43   about that fan article you know just or [TS]

00:08:46   we're having the same sort of defensive [TS]

00:08:49   reaction that the that the angry [TS]

00:08:51   comments about the punk-rock article had [TS]

00:08:53   which are like this is my world this is [TS]

00:08:55   important to me why are you attacking me [TS]

00:08:57   and you know and i think a lot of that [TS]

00:09:00   is just the tone that I right or am I [TS]

00:09:02   you know by a know-it-all tone [TS]

00:09:04   but of course I'm not attacking and just [TS]

00:09:06   like you really are talking about [TS]

00:09:08   yourself talking about myself and and [TS]

00:09:10   and and the best comments i got word [TS]

00:09:13   that handful of emails from people that [TS]

00:09:14   were like thank you for writing that you [TS]

00:09:16   described me perfectly i never thought [TS]

00:09:19   about it that way before I always feel [TS]

00:09:21   like an outsider and i'm not a fan and [TS]

00:09:24   and now i know that a that I'm not alone [TS]

00:09:27   and then just like oh good I'm glad that [TS]

00:09:29   I made that connection with you people [TS]

00:09:31   like to think like you know and I I [TS]

00:09:33   don't really have a dog in this fight [TS]

00:09:34   too much but people but people tend to [TS]

00:09:37   think and I feel that sometimes when I [TS]

00:09:39   meet people who are really into comics [TS]

00:09:41   that don't like or not into not even [TS]

00:09:44   don't like that are into some comic that [TS]

00:09:45   all of my other friends and she was like [TS]

00:09:47   we have to stage an intervention [TS]

00:09:49   it's like you don't understand it yet [TS]

00:09:51   you know and so I know that I know that [TS]

00:09:53   feeling that feeling of community that [TS]

00:09:55   comes out of out of fandom but you know [TS]

00:09:57   and I don't I didn't get that you were [TS]

00:09:59   like saying that the other people [TS]

00:10:01   shouldn't be fans know God why all means [TS]

00:10:04   be fan like your fans i do i like all [TS]

00:10:07   fans i like so many people who are fans [TS]

00:10:10   it's just a I'm just kind of describing [TS]

00:10:13   like a like my state and it's not really [TS]

00:10:18   that I mean in some ways nothings and [TS]

00:10:19   check myself too much but like it's kind [TS]

00:10:22   of how I feel with me in like politics [TS]

00:10:24   and current affairs like I don't hate [TS]

00:10:26   politics and current affairs i don't [TS]

00:10:28   even hate that people have strong [TS]

00:10:30   opinions about it's just not my thing [TS]

00:10:32   and I really feel like it in that case [TS]

00:10:33   I'm the one saying i'm not a fan like I [TS]

00:10:35   feel like an outcast I feel like people [TS]

00:10:37   think I i don't know i don't know what [TS]

00:10:40   people think but sometimes i wonder if i [TS]

00:10:42   come across someone who doesn't care [TS]

00:10:43   about something I care a lot about stuff [TS]

00:10:45   I just don't feel the need to have that [TS]

00:10:47   like arguments about it with people [TS]

00:10:49   well that's the and that's the thing i [TS]

00:10:51   mean in the form of politics the people [TS]

00:10:54   who are fans of politics don't describe [TS]

00:10:56   themselves using fan language they [TS]

00:11:00   describe themselves using language where [TS]

00:11:01   if you you know if you aren't interested [TS]

00:11:03   in politics that you're not engaged in [TS]

00:11:06   the present world and you don't care [TS]

00:11:07   about the fate of mankind [TS]

00:11:09   you know and really you're absolutely [TS]

00:11:11   right their motivation is is very fan [TS]

00:11:16   based or or a lot of a lot of the [TS]

00:11:18   politics groupies are fan-based the [TS]

00:11:21   people that are writing about politics [TS]

00:11:23   everyday and writing about politicians [TS]

00:11:24   like they are stars and you know that's [TS]

00:11:29   true that's true of any of any of these [TS]

00:11:33   you know the way our culture is siloed [TS]

00:11:36   and somebody wrote somebody wrote an [TS]

00:11:38   interesting so so the the bass player of [TS]

00:11:43   skin yard who went on to own CZ records [TS]

00:11:51   one of the seminal Seattle grunge labels [TS]

00:11:53   he posted he reposted my fan article on [TS]

00:11:58   his facebook page and typically like his [TS]

00:12:03   friends on Facebook are all the Krusty [TS]

00:12:08   grunge era cross towards that that hated [TS]

00:12:15   my punk rock article 2 and there was a [TS]

00:12:17   lot of shit talking there and he posted [TS]

00:12:19   it like this is interesting to me at [TS]

00:12:21   this that i'm not sure i'm not sure [TS]

00:12:23   about this but i but I kind of feel like [TS]

00:12:26   I might even be one of these people [TS]

00:12:27   that's in this category of like as a [TS]

00:12:30   difficult relationship to fandom but [TS]

00:12:33   there was a lot of angry yelling on his [TS]

00:12:34   facebook page and that was kind of the [TS]

00:12:35   extent of the angry yelling that I saw [TS]

00:12:37   that I allowed myself to see before I [TS]

00:12:39   shut the whole system down [TS]

00:12:42   yeah yeah but there was an interesting [TS]

00:12:44   comment from someone on there that said [TS]

00:12:46   like this the this John Roderick person [TS]

00:12:50   seems like somebody who is primarily [TS]

00:12:54   interested in the breadth of experience [TS]

00:12:56   and not especially interested in the [TS]

00:12:59   depth of experience and I was like and I [TS]

00:13:03   you know I walked away and chew on that [TS]

00:13:05   for a while and feel like that's [TS]

00:13:06   absolutely true [TS]

00:13:08   it's certainly a conclusion that could [TS]

00:13:10   be drawn it's a conclusion that can be [TS]

00:13:11   drawn it was a hundred percent accurate [TS]

00:13:13   all the time it's it's certainly [TS]

00:13:14   interesting thought technology it's an [TS]

00:13:16   interesting thought technology and I and [TS]

00:13:18   and what I felt what I feel like is that [TS]

00:13:20   we all use the power of it [TS]

00:13:23   extrapolation to to get through life [TS]

00:13:26   right [TS]

00:13:27   you don't have to i mean somebody that [TS]

00:13:29   had a memento like condition where every [TS]

00:13:32   experience they had to figure out the [TS]

00:13:34   terms of it a new completely a new with [TS]

00:13:39   no prior experience you know that what a [TS]

00:13:41   nightmare that would be yeah like you go [TS]

00:13:43   through enough situations that when you [TS]

00:13:46   see a guy when you see a guy who has [TS]

00:13:49   bleached his goatee you pretty much know [TS]

00:13:53   what you're you pretty much know that [TS]

00:13:55   you're dealing with somebody that once [TS]

00:13:56   jalapenos in their food you know like [TS]

00:13:59   you that's me and face test it [TS]

00:14:02   you don't have to think of you have to [TS]

00:14:04   you don't have to meet this guy and [TS]

00:14:05   figure it out again right like oh you [TS]

00:14:08   believe you bleach your facial hair [TS]

00:14:09   betting that you think that your foods [TS]

00:14:12   not hot enough i guess if you when [TS]

00:14:14   you're thinking of asking do you want to [TS]

00:14:15   hit off of this [TS]

00:14:16   you don't have to ask you want to hit [TS]

00:14:17   off of whatever it is exactly he wants [TS]

00:14:19   to hit off of and he's the pad person [TS]

00:14:21   who want to get off of everything you [TS]

00:14:23   want cream cheese on that I bet you want [TS]

00:14:25   cream cheese on the key so so uh so you [TS]

00:14:30   know my my experience of depth when it [TS]

00:14:33   comes to anything kind of culturally or [TS]

00:14:36   experiential e is that I experienced the [TS]

00:14:39   depth of things largely through [TS]

00:14:43   extrapolation like I I i go down a [TS]

00:14:48   street in a neighborhood and I say okay [TS]

00:14:52   I got a picture of this neighborhood now [TS]

00:14:56   because I've gone down this street and [TS]

00:14:59   maybe I turned and went down a second [TS]

00:15:02   street and i'm going to extrapolate what [TS]

00:15:04   the character of this neighborhood is [TS]

00:15:06   through through that experience now next [TS]

00:15:09   time I'm going on a trip from point A to [TS]

00:15:12   point B do i go down this same street [TS]

00:15:15   again because it was the route because [TS]

00:15:17   it was the fastest route or do I take a [TS]

00:15:20   guy take a second route a new route so [TS]

00:15:25   that i can increase that power of [TS]

00:15:27   extrapolation [TS]

00:15:29   I can increase my like my sample size so [TS]

00:15:35   that again i start to get a picture of [TS]

00:15:37   this whole part of the town i start to [TS]

00:15:39   get a picture of this whole community [TS]

00:15:40   that's interesting instead of being a [TS]

00:15:42   fan of this particular route and because [TS]

00:15:45   you like it more than the one other one [TS]

00:15:46   you tried you're saying I want to see [TS]

00:15:48   what all these do right and and and that [TS]

00:15:51   is my experience of culture to like I'm [TS]

00:15:53   always trying to increase my sample size [TS]

00:15:55   so i can use the power of extrapolation [TS]

00:15:58   to know more and and what I what I think [TS]

00:16:02   is you know like i do not have it i do [TS]

00:16:04   not have a deep knowledge of of a of any [TS]

00:16:10   process right like how do you get to be [TS]

00:16:13   a how do you get to be a great luthier [TS]

00:16:15   how do you get to be the ultimate sushi [TS]

00:16:18   chef you know you do the same thing over [TS]

00:16:20   and over and over until your knowledge [TS]

00:16:23   of it is like in your hands it's in your [TS]

00:16:26   bones [TS]

00:16:27   you are the you are the ultimate [TS]

00:16:30   practitioner other thing because you [TS]

00:16:33   have you have turned that experience [TS]

00:16:36   you've gone through wrote into like body [TS]

00:16:41   memory [TS]

00:16:42   uh-huh uh-huh and I don't have that with [TS]

00:16:46   anything even with guitar like I'm not I [TS]

00:16:48   i find it very very difficult to [TS]

00:16:51   practice the same thing over and over [TS]

00:16:52   again I'm always playing something [TS]

00:16:54   different and new and other and and in a [TS]

00:16:57   way that that informs how I how I make [TS]

00:17:01   music [TS]

00:17:01   the problem is it's I never do that I [TS]

00:17:04   never play the link multiple times until [TS]

00:17:06   i can do it you know and it's you know [TS]

00:17:09   that's why I'm not a not a real [TS]

00:17:12   technical musician but but what I what I [TS]

00:17:16   do instead is always take a different [TS]

00:17:17   route always trying new food you know i [TS]

00:17:20   was i was at a restaurant with a friend [TS]

00:17:21   the other day and they were like I come [TS]

00:17:23   to this restaurant with you 50 times [TS]

00:17:24   you've never ordered the same thing [TS]

00:17:26   and I ordered the same thing every time [TS]

00:17:28   I i always order the same thing [TS]

00:17:30   yeah and I think that's true that's true [TS]

00:17:32   for a lot of people and they were [TS]

00:17:34   remarking on it and it took them 50 [TS]

00:17:36   visits with me to to realize it like [TS]

00:17:39   that every time you order something [TS]

00:17:42   different and I think that that makes me [TS]

00:17:44   a little uncomfortable like each time [TS]

00:17:45   you're going to try something new like [TS]

00:17:47   is it all like it can't always be good [TS]

00:17:49   and I'm like no sometimes it is not good [TS]

00:17:52   sometimes it's not but each but a meal [TS]

00:17:54   is just a moment you know and if you get [TS]

00:17:56   if you get a bad one like like sweeping [TS]

00:17:58   into the trash you know tried to try and [TS]

00:18:01   the new thing the next time so it's a so [TS]

00:18:04   it's a it's a relationship to phantom [TS]

00:18:07   that's really part of a larger [TS]

00:18:09   relationship to experience which is like [TS]

00:18:13   I don't care to do the same thing enough [TS]

00:18:16   times that i developed a deep knowledge [TS]

00:18:18   because deep knowledge of a process or [TS]

00:18:23   of a of a any any real deep knowledge is [TS]

00:18:28   a thing i feel like i can approximate [TS]

00:18:30   through analogy and like I would much [TS]

00:18:37   rather see the IC increase my breath [TS]

00:18:40   over right now and but let me let me [TS]

00:18:43   just help add a note here that I think [TS]

00:18:46   is important which is I don't hear you [TS]

00:18:48   saying that means nobody else should [TS]

00:18:50   have deep knowledge of things or ignore [TS]

00:18:53   that that's not valuable you're not [TS]

00:18:54   saying that at all [TS]

00:18:56   the only way i could be this way is that [TS]

00:18:58   I is that I'm surrounded by people that [TS]

00:19:00   have deep knowledge agree though that [TS]

00:19:02   isn't that something that people here [TS]

00:19:03   when you use when you say i have chosen [TS]

00:19:05   to like know enough about these couple [TS]

00:19:07   things to be able to extrapolate and [TS]

00:19:09   learn and learn about a new thing I want [TS]

00:19:10   to know about your you're curious person [TS]

00:19:12   that doesn't mean that you don't think [TS]

00:19:14   other people should become experts know [TS]

00:19:16   and I don't understand how anybody could [TS]

00:19:18   I mean I guess I feel like it's weird [TS]

00:19:20   even have the 66 [TS]

00:19:22   yeah I and I feel like when I talk about [TS]

00:19:24   my experience I talked about it with a [TS]

00:19:27   with with unnatural pride right like i [TS]

00:19:31   am proud of how I am I i don't i'm not [TS]

00:19:35   defending how I am against attackers i [TS]

00:19:37   just am proud of it because [TS]

00:19:40   because i feel like that whole modern [TS]

00:19:42   tendency to apologize for who you are [TS]

00:19:44   first like hello hi nice to meet you [TS]

00:19:46   listen I'm sorry that I'm different from [TS]

00:19:48   you but I'm just gonna I have to express [TS]

00:19:51   my difference and I know it's bad but [TS]

00:19:53   please don't hurt me but here I am I [TS]

00:19:56   hate that I i feel like i I'm I'm proud [TS]

00:19:59   of Who I am and that that's not [TS]

00:20:01   something i should be ashamed of but [TS]

00:20:03   expressing who i am in a way that is [TS]

00:20:05   that seems like just sort of a contented [TS]

00:20:09   or happy or or or that I prefer the way [TS]

00:20:12   that I am is immediately interpreted as [TS]

00:20:15   judgment of other people and my [TS]

00:20:18   preference for myself is is somehow an [TS]

00:20:21   expression that I am better uh want to [TS]

00:20:25   share the church is categorically [TS]

00:20:26   disrespectful almost yeah right like oh [TS]

00:20:28   yes I I don't prefer to be an expert so [TS]

00:20:31   anybody that's an expert is a fucking [TS]

00:20:32   idiot like and I don't know where people [TS]

00:20:35   how people make that leap it's in it's [TS]

00:20:37   an invisible missed in a culture today i [TS]

00:20:41   feel i feel it all the time it's bananas [TS]

00:20:44   it is and it's it's so it's so cocky and [TS]

00:20:47   self-involved to assume that you can [TS]

00:20:49   understand that much about somebody [TS]

00:20:52   who's not who's not even saying anything [TS]

00:20:53   against what you believe or saying [TS]

00:20:56   anything against the very idea that you [TS]

00:20:58   like to believe what you believe it's [TS]

00:21:00   it's so it's a caustic and unnecessary [TS]

00:21:02   but I feel like it's everywhere and if [TS]

00:21:05   you and you really you sound one sounds [TS]

00:21:08   very self-involved or insulated if you [TS]

00:21:12   don't excuse yourself for not knowing [TS]

00:21:15   everything about somebody and you don't [TS]

00:21:17   mean tennis is such a weird situation [TS]

00:21:19   well this and again this this this [TS]

00:21:22   comment section in on the Daniel house [TS]

00:21:25   facebook page there was a guy and at a [TS]

00:21:29   certain point of the full disclosure at [TS]

00:21:31   a certain point I started to comment on [TS]

00:21:33   his Facebook page no because John the [TS]

00:21:36   first commenter was a guy that was just [TS]

00:21:39   like you know what this guy's a fucking [TS]

00:21:41   asshole i hated his punk rock article i [TS]

00:21:43   hate his whole attitude he thinks he's [TS]

00:21:45   better than everybody else he thinks [TS]

00:21:47   he's smarter than everybody else and [TS]

00:21:48   that's fucking bullshit [TS]

00:21:50   his music sucks and he's got a fucking [TS]

00:21:52   stupid haircut and his glasses are dumb [TS]

00:21:54   everything about this guy sucks and it's [TS]

00:21:56   fucking and that he's an asshole and I [TS]

00:21:58   hate him and you know so that's the [TS]

00:22:00   first comment and it's known as well you [TS]

00:22:03   know and it gets like it gets a like [TS]

00:22:06   five times or something and it you know [TS]

00:22:09   that but then there's three or four [TS]

00:22:10   comments from people that are like I [TS]

00:22:11   don't know this article seems pretty [TS]

00:22:12   well it seems pretty reasonable i mean [TS]

00:22:15   i-i don't know if I agree that kiss is [TS]

00:22:17   no good because I like kiss but you know [TS]

00:22:19   but you know a couple people defending [TS]

00:22:21   or at least making that conciliatory [TS]

00:22:24   facebook like medium post and then the [TS]

00:22:30   guy comes back and he's like no you know [TS]

00:22:32   what you guys Bob habitat you're all [TS]

00:22:33   wrong and another thing about this guy [TS]

00:22:35   like his she's got bad taste in shoes [TS]

00:22:38   and he's like Ed perturb and so finally [TS]

00:22:40   of course I'll III show up here I come [TS]

00:22:44   through the door in a cape [TS]

00:22:47   I'm like huh i'm the writer of this [TS]

00:22:50   article and I'm reading your comments [TS]

00:22:52   you know I'm reading your comments and [TS]

00:22:54   I'm and I feel like I'm not trying to [TS]

00:22:57   attack anybody with this article I'm [TS]

00:22:59   just expressing who i am i'm just [TS]

00:23:00   talking from my perspective it's not a [TS]

00:23:03   bad thing and so angry guy comes back in [TS]

00:23:08   and now he feels a little bit like o.o [TS]

00:23:10   the there's an adulterer like bit adults [TS]

00:23:13   are in the room now so i have to pretend [TS]

00:23:15   I'm an adult and he's like well I'm it's [TS]

00:23:17   very I'm very pleased to see that you're [TS]

00:23:19   here defending yourself but I just have [TS]

00:23:21   to take issue with the fact that you are [TS]

00:23:24   such a that you're so arrogant and I was [TS]

00:23:28   like well I'm not arrogant I'm just [TS]

00:23:30   talking about my experience and why [TS]

00:23:34   would I why would I apologize for for [TS]

00:23:38   you know what i mean and he's and he [TS]

00:23:40   comes back again a third time with like [TS]

00:23:42   chastising me about my tone and and so i [TS]

00:23:46   wrote i would like you sir to read back [TS]

00:23:49   on your posts on this facebook page and [TS]

00:23:53   reflect on your tone and then contrast [TS]

00:23:57   it with my tone and tell me which tone [TS]

00:24:00   you prefer like my know-it-all tone that [TS]

00:24:03   is [TS]

00:24:04   like so offensive to you because I'm [TS]

00:24:05   because I'm proud of myself right you're [TS]

00:24:08   an idiot and he's speaking truth to [TS]

00:24:09   power now or yeah exactly or you're like [TS]

00:24:12   you are pouring vitriol against someone [TS]

00:24:18   you don't know and don't understand and [TS]

00:24:21   your instinct your first instinct is to [TS]

00:24:23   be butthurt and up and like pissy bitchy [TS]

00:24:29   so what world you want to live in you [TS]

00:24:32   know like I'm i and and and that that [TS]

00:24:35   idea that two to be to not apologize for [TS]

00:24:42   yourself is the greatest crime is the [TS]

00:24:46   first crime you know is the is the is [TS]

00:24:48   the premier crime in in our internet [TS]

00:24:53   culture now to not begin with a I have [TS]

00:24:56   no right to speak but now that I've [TS]

00:25:00   acknowledge that i'm going to proffer my [TS]

00:25:02   humble opinion and I and now i'm gonna [TS]

00:25:06   slowly back out of the room bowing and [TS]

00:25:09   scraping and that and that's what's [TS]

00:25:11   necessary to not be to not be taken as [TS]

00:25:15   like a strident combative and ultimately [TS]

00:25:21   like you know angry troll [TS]

00:25:23   I don't get it I don't get it it's um I [TS]

00:25:27   think when you're doing any kind of [TS]

00:25:29   personal writing when you're talking [TS]

00:25:30   about yourself when you're talking about [TS]

00:25:31   yourself it as a member of society which [TS]

00:25:33   is what a lot of personal sites are in [TS]

00:25:35   some ways it's um I mean it'sit's you [TS]

00:25:37   have to be skillful to say something [TS]

00:25:39   interesting [TS]

00:25:39   it's be very skillful to say something [TS]

00:25:41   new and used to be somewhat courageous [TS]

00:25:43   to say something honest I think it's [TS]

00:25:44   very difficult to efficiently say [TS]

00:25:47   anything that's interesting and new and [TS]

00:25:49   honest without a lot of people getting [TS]

00:25:52   upset sometimes very little reason and [TS]

00:25:55   it isn't it isn't a mean people can sit [TS]

00:25:57   and I think that reads you're right i [TS]

00:25:58   think that people read that as arrogant [TS]

00:26:00   but like the thing is though if you [TS]

00:26:03   don't want it so what do you do to not [TS]

00:26:04   get that reaction from people you say [TS]

00:26:06   something uninteresting you say [TS]

00:26:07   something that's not new and you say [TS]

00:26:09   something is dishonest you say something [TS]

00:26:10   that everybody can agree with because [TS]

00:26:11   they already think that and that's why [TS]

00:26:13   bother you [TS]

00:26:15   right thats that's just asking for [TS]

00:26:16   compliments and that's that's not making [TS]

00:26:18   anything [TS]

00:26:19   yea yea it is an enemy and it's part of [TS]

00:26:22   i think the growing sense of like online [TS]

00:26:24   life as a as a group think consensus [TS]

00:26:29   machine where we're we're not we are not [TS]

00:26:34   trying to invent something new right now [TS]

00:26:37   in our at this moment in our culture we [TS]

00:26:40   are not trying to put a man on the moon [TS]

00:26:41   we are not trying to push the boundaries [TS]

00:26:46   of what it is to be a you know human [TS]

00:26:49   animal or 0 or a global culture we are [TS]

00:26:52   just at least online just trying to [TS]

00:26:57   round off all the nubs and sand the [TS]

00:27:02   corners and figure out and and basically [TS]

00:27:04   like shout people into a consensus that [TS]

00:27:08   makes us feel like that validates our [TS]

00:27:10   own prejudices and figure out how much [TS]

00:27:14   of that is about corralling a temporary [TS]

00:27:17   tribe of people who categorically agree [TS]

00:27:19   on who is a bad person and why they can [TS]

00:27:22   ask yourself how many things that people [TS]

00:27:24   consider like important conversations [TS]

00:27:26   all mostly stopped at who's a bad person [TS]

00:27:29   and why [TS]

00:27:29   uh-huh and then ask yourself what you [TS]

00:27:31   get out of that in terms of making [TS]

00:27:33   something [TS]

00:27:34   well yeah you're not making any [TS]

00:27:36   specially if 36 hours you move on to [TS]

00:27:38   find another tribe that you can agree [TS]

00:27:39   with and I really do I really honestly [TS]

00:27:42   do believe that but I mean you know of [TS]

00:27:45   several years ago 10 years ago we were [TS]

00:27:47   very worried about the Millennials and I [TS]

00:27:50   don't want to dump on the Millennials [TS]

00:27:52   because I some of the smartest people I [TS]

00:27:53   know are part of that generation is so [TS]

00:27:55   arrogant and some of the fuck you know [TS]

00:27:57   some of the funniest stuff that is being [TS]

00:28:00   bandied about is coming from Millennials [TS]

00:28:03   who have a who have a a different enough [TS]

00:28:06   take and a kind of let you know and the [TS]

00:28:11   power of youth but but ten years ago we [TS]

00:28:15   were we were all very concerned about [TS]

00:28:18   this brand new generation that was [TS]

00:28:19   arriving had never gotten a bad grade no [TS]

00:28:23   one had ever given them an F no one has [TS]

00:28:25   ever told them they needed to try a [TS]

00:28:27   little harder [TS]

00:28:28   her they were congratulated at every [TS]

00:28:30   step of the way and now they were 18 [TS]

00:28:33   years old they were entering the world [TS]

00:28:35   and they were really unhappy to find [TS]

00:28:39   that they didn't get a round of applause [TS]

00:28:41   every time they pooped and this was you [TS]

00:28:44   know this was ten years ago when we were [TS]

00:28:45   adults and we were like oh there's a new [TS]

00:28:47   generation arriving on the scene and [TS]

00:28:49   it's kind of weird interacting with them [TS]

00:28:52   because they are indignant that you know [TS]

00:28:55   like and and their indignant is you know [TS]

00:29:01   we were characterizing it as this as a [TS]

00:29:03   product of this era of no bad grades k-8 [TS]

00:29:08   if I effective make it worse they seldom [TS]

00:29:11   seldom analyzed and ignorance but it [TS]

00:29:15   really felt like something that arrive [TS]

00:29:17   by fedex one day and that they really [TS]

00:29:18   completely deserved was this just this [TS]

00:29:20   constant sense of like explain i don't [TS]

00:29:23   mean to be negative about it but I just [TS]

00:29:25   got this sense of-of always looking for [TS]

00:29:28   bad stuff and everything as a way to [TS]

00:29:31   explain why your life sucks right and [TS]

00:29:33   and and and crucially unreflective [TS]

00:29:35   that's that's exactly right they were [TS]

00:29:37   not reflecting inwardly they're fine [TS]

00:29:40   reflecting on other people and we're [TS]

00:29:41   planning on what they need to be doing [TS]

00:29:43   differently be more unhappy like them [TS]

00:29:45   yeah well so here we are 10 years later [TS]

00:29:47   and we're no longer really talking about [TS]

00:29:50   Millennials in that way because that was [TS]

00:29:52   that was the way that we thought about [TS]

00:29:54   them when they were newly minted adults [TS]

00:29:56   they weren't kids anymore but they still [TS]

00:29:58   were very kid-like now that generation [TS]

00:30:01   is in its thirties and it is it is [TS]

00:30:06   producing a lot of culture it is really [TS]

00:30:09   like it is really generating that it the [TS]

00:30:13   tone of the conversation and and so i'm [TS]

00:30:17   i'm beginning to try and do what we've [TS]

00:30:19   done with every generation so far in my [TS]

00:30:21   life which is kind of slop them in to [TS]

00:30:24   what the story is you know what the [TS]

00:30:27   story of our culture is and and [TS]

00:30:29   Millennials are typically the children [TS]

00:30:31   of baby boomers [TS]

00:30:33   and you're in my generation is this this [TS]

00:30:37   intergeneration that is largely going to [TS]

00:30:39   be forgotten [TS]

00:30:40   you know we're a smaller population wise [TS]

00:30:44   words were much smaller than the Boomers [TS]

00:30:47   before us or their children after us [TS]

00:30:49   there fewer of us and we're going to be [TS]

00:30:52   marginalized we already are marginalized [TS]

00:30:55   we always were marginalized when we were [TS]

00:30:58   18 the popular music on the charts was [TS]

00:31:02   still boomer music and we had our brief [TS]

00:31:06   moment in the early nineties where our [TS]

00:31:08   culture poked through for a little while [TS]

00:31:11   and we were regarded as a sulky entitled [TS]

00:31:17   generation ourselves and then we just [TS]

00:31:21   got like we just sort of got dust heaped [TS]

00:31:25   as the culture moved on like they [TS]

00:31:28   weren't really interested in hearing [TS]

00:31:30   from us anymore whatever it was that we [TS]

00:31:33   contributed was just kind of like ironic [TS]

00:31:37   and everything every year we're moving [TS]

00:31:39   more and more out of the target demo [TS]

00:31:41   yeah right you know we were like the [TS]

00:31:43   sneer errs who sneered our way right [TS]

00:31:46   into like a position where we acquiesce [TS]

00:31:50   to total sellout status which [TS]

00:31:53   invalidated entirely our prior sneery [TS]

00:31:56   mentality you know like we we self [TS]

00:32:00   invalidated ourselves in a way that that [TS]

00:32:04   it took the Boomers 25 years to do and [TS]

00:32:08   we just got on it pretty-pretty [TS]

00:32:10   announced today that the idea of selling [TS]

00:32:12   out is it is disappearing away we [TS]

00:32:15   couldn't imagine even five years ago [TS]

00:32:17   yeah right and and and in it in one [TS]

00:32:19   sense good riddens because that was that [TS]

00:32:21   was self-defeating but in another sense [TS]

00:32:23   everything isn't there everything is [TS]

00:32:25   marketing now I mean everything is [TS]

00:32:28   marketing including journalism I mean [TS]

00:32:31   things that we thought were were [TS]

00:32:32   unassailable including a personality [TS]

00:32:34   your personality you're a mean every [TS]

00:32:37   fucking thing and I say that as somebody [TS]

00:32:39   who who embraces the fact that you and I [TS]

00:32:43   have found an advertiser for our program [TS]

00:32:45   hello [TS]

00:32:46   like love a love the idea of making a [TS]

00:32:52   living doing creative work but my god i [TS]

00:32:54   go on the internet i'm trying to find a [TS]

00:32:58   thing I want to search for the the I [TS]

00:33:00   want to search for some information on [TS]

00:33:02   the thirty years war and the fucking [TS]

00:33:05   thing pops up and it's like if you like [TS]

00:33:06   the Thirty Years War you're gonna love [TS]

00:33:08   the new nissan sentra a team that Carl's [TS]

00:33:10   jr. you know go click to this BuzzFeed [TS]

00:33:13   thing and it's and you're just gonna and [TS]

00:33:16   every time you look for the arrow to see [TS]

00:33:17   the next picture it's actually going to [TS]

00:33:19   be an arrow that takes you to a chase [TS]

00:33:21   credit card and people usually what [TS]

00:33:23   happens tricks [TS]

00:33:24   that's like fuck you everybody like [TS]

00:33:25   everybody fucking but so so we're living [TS]

00:33:28   in a world now where Millennials have [TS]

00:33:31   have have melted into the larger adult [TS]

00:33:35   population and have brought their values [TS]

00:33:38   into the adult conversation they are [TS]

00:33:42   adults now and have their have this [TS]

00:33:45   value system that we perceive to be [TS]

00:33:47   founded in an untruth which is the [TS]

00:33:51   untruth being that everyone is special [TS]

00:33:53   and we feel that to be intrinsically [TS]

00:33:58   untrue and an unexamined lie but it's [TS]

00:34:02   now in its in the water that that that [TS]

00:34:05   draw that you know that LSD is in the [TS]

00:34:08   water supply now and you cannot you [TS]

00:34:11   cannot take a 30 year old and segregate [TS]

00:34:14   them from a forty-five-year-old and say [TS]

00:34:16   like well you still are you sir are [TS]

00:34:19   still living in a state of delusion [TS]

00:34:21   whereas we at 45 have exclusive access [TS]

00:34:25   to the truth because the baby boomers [TS]

00:34:27   ahead of us are also living in a [TS]

00:34:28   delusion like we're the only ones that [TS]

00:34:31   that step here the claim of [TS]

00:34:34   metal-on-metal I mean we're all just [TS]

00:34:37   dummies but I'm you know you you have a [TS]

00:34:42   kid I have a kid that are part of a jet [TS]

00:34:44   part of a generation that we have to [TS]

00:34:47   imagine I i have to start imagining what [TS]

00:34:51   their viewpoint is kind of pain now and [TS]

00:34:54   our are Millennials [TS]

00:34:57   are they the aberration or were we you [TS]

00:35:01   know our are they establishing what the [TS]

00:35:04   new tone is and weird i mean in a way [TS]

00:35:08   absolutely they are we are always from [TS]

00:35:11   now on going to be living in a world [TS]

00:35:13   that is somewhat defined by the the [TS]

00:35:18   group think and you know like [TS]

00:35:23   rights-based thinking you know kind of [TS]

00:35:26   justice based thinking of the generation [TS]

00:35:30   that came after us but somebody's got to [TS]

00:35:33   come along with a fucking plan for [TS]

00:35:35   something exciting and new [TS]

00:35:36   right right we can't human history [TS]

00:35:39   cannot just turn on itself and bite its [TS]

00:35:41   own tail for the rest we should have [TS]

00:35:42   more kids we should have more kids we [TS]

00:35:45   should teach them science until trail [TS]

00:35:47   get get them out there get there they're [TS]

00:35:50   healthy strong bodies building trail in [TS]

00:35:51   the Sun and then set them loose with [TS]

00:35:55   tools and math right teach them math [TS]

00:35:59   which together math and computer maths [TS]

00:36:02   teach them standard math if they know [TS]

00:36:04   their maths well enough by computer [TS]

00:36:06   maths will be easy because computer [TS]

00:36:09   mouths are just a trade that anyone can [TS]

00:36:11   learn [TS]

00:36:12   meanwhile back in santa fe i think if [TS]

00:36:16   you ask the typical pop quiz hotshot us [TS]

00:36:18   the typical erotic online listener which [TS]

00:36:21   one of us had read your me which of us [TS]

00:36:26   had read any token I have a feeling most [TS]

00:36:32   people would guess that i have read some [TS]

00:36:35   token right i've read note okay see [TS]

00:36:38   that's insane to be right now i'm going [TS]

00:36:40   to a lot of people i have read all the [TS]

00:36:42   tools see in this way the silmarillion [TS]

00:36:45   isn't that the hard one which is that [TS]

00:36:47   it's impossible to read that's like much [TS]

00:36:49   that's his metal machine music right [TS]

00:36:50   it's like reading a hundred years of [TS]

00:36:52   solitude if all the story was taken out [TS]

00:36:54   of this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

00:36:58   sponsored by our very good friends at [TS]

00:36:59   Squarespace you know Squarespace they [TS]

00:37:01   are the all-in-one platform that makes [TS]

00:37:03   it fast and easy to create your own [TS]

00:37:05   professional website portfolio or online [TS]

00:37:07   store they make the whole process so so [TS]

00:37:10   all have an easy drag-and-drop interface [TS]

00:37:12   and beautiful free templates you can [TS]

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00:37:16   squarespace six designs are responsive [TS]

00:37:18   which means they look great on every [TS]

00:37:19   device [TS]

00:37:20   Squarespace also offers free 24 x seven [TS]

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00:37:27   and Portland John and I have u square [TS]

00:37:30   space to host rock on the line for three [TS]

00:37:32   years now they have been great to work [TS]

00:37:34   with [TS]

00:37:34   we would love it if you would give them [TS]

00:37:36   a try to remember Squarespace plans [TS]

00:37:38   start at only eight dollars per month [TS]

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00:37:46   heard about it from your positronic on [TS]

00:37:47   the line listeners of this program get a [TS]

00:37:50   free trial plus ten percent off any [TS]

00:37:52   package they choose by using the special [TS]

00:37:54   offer code supertrain at checkout our [TS]

00:37:57   thanks to squarespace for supporting rod [TS]

00:37:59   on the line we could not do it without [TS]

00:38:00   the one Tolkien I haven't read is his [TS]

00:38:06   apparently genius translation of Beowulf [TS]

00:38:09   which went unpublished until very [TS]

00:38:13   recently that was his like his a cassie [TS]

00:38:18   is young master work before he did all [TS]

00:38:21   the other before he did the fantasy [TS]

00:38:22   writing he wrote this like really [TS]

00:38:25   translation of Beowulf and then never [TS]

00:38:27   published it just sat on it huh and [TS]

00:38:29   Auntie think is a state did that as a [TS]

00:38:32   state has finally published yeah but you [TS]

00:38:35   gotta be careful what you leave on your [TS]

00:38:36   computer yeah I'm shaman know another [TS]

00:38:39   beer sketches by genre but he he wrote [TS]

00:38:45   this thing and I think it might have [TS]

00:38:46   been his leaves of grass he kept writing [TS]

00:38:48   it or or no monkeying with all didn't [TS]

00:38:51   think it was ready I don't know [TS]

00:38:53   but george RR martin very curious [TS]

00:38:58   character very interesting to interact [TS]

00:39:01   with him who he is a nerd [TS]

00:39:10   oh really yes but of the old-school you [TS]

00:39:15   know like remember when we were young [TS]

00:39:17   nerds [TS]

00:39:19   yes and the difference between the Nerds [TS]

00:39:24   that you know that play Dungeons and [TS]

00:39:28   Dragons and nerds that were actually [TS]

00:39:29   trying to learn sword Smith three you [TS]

00:39:37   remember there were you know they were [TS]

00:39:39   real nerds even when we were nerds who [TS]

00:39:42   were just a dimension beyond like the [TS]

00:39:45   guys who talked about swords there was a [TS]

00:39:49   good there's a kid in my ninth grade [TS]

00:39:51   science class who was a friend of mine [TS]

00:39:53   we talked about we talked about fantasy [TS]

00:39:57   writing and science fiction together and [TS]

00:40:00   we enjoyed Dungeons and Dragons culture [TS]

00:40:04   but he had notebooks full of designs of [TS]

00:40:10   swords that he was sincere about [TS]

00:40:14   learning the ancient arts swordmaking [TS]

00:40:20   222 craft these swords to shoo them out [TS]

00:40:25   of the metal and i remember at the time [TS]

00:40:29   feeling like you know that there that [TS]

00:40:33   that is you are choosing to pursue [TS]

00:40:38   esoterica down a rabbit hole to the end [TS]

00:40:44   like swordmaking is never going it's not [TS]

00:40:47   relevant it's never going to be relevant [TS]

00:40:49   now it's you are on a siding and i [TS]

00:40:54   appreciate like that that I appreciate [TS]

00:40:58   the art I appreciate the history I [TS]

00:41:00   appreciate everything about it but [TS]

00:41:02   and I think there was a part of what [TS]

00:41:03   what what what made it possible for him [TS]

00:41:07   or what made it exciting was that there [TS]

00:41:12   was a part of the fantasy where he [TS]

00:41:16   believed that maybe one day civilization [TS]

00:41:20   would crumble and swords would be the [TS]

00:41:24   way we interact with each other again [TS]

00:41:26   telling a freethinker like you know [TS]

00:41:28   you're not a political way but I mean [TS]

00:41:29   like he's definitely he's got his own [TS]

00:41:30   thoughts about how stuff is going to go [TS]

00:41:33   he's not he's not doing it to be cool [TS]

00:41:35   he's not doing it because you know it's [TS]

00:41:37   the next obvious step given that his [TS]

00:41:38   father's a swordsmith he's got a larger [TS]

00:41:40   world view [TS]

00:41:41   yeah and I feel like there's a there's a [TS]

00:41:44   part of steampunk culture renfaire [TS]

00:41:47   culture fantasy culture cosplay culture [TS]

00:41:52   that is that it the there are under [TS]

00:41:58   under threads undertones of apocalypse [TS]

00:42:02   in those things you know people are [TS]

00:42:06   aware that they are in my charity and [TS]

00:42:10   they are enjoying these cultures and and [TS]

00:42:13   I cannot help but feel like they all [TS]

00:42:16   secretly hope that the grid goes down [TS]

00:42:21   certainly can read done a little bit [TS]

00:42:24   that these are red dawn fantasies and [TS]

00:42:26   that when the grid does go down their [TS]

00:42:30   swords smithing there uh you know the [TS]

00:42:33   fact that they can cook a hearty meal in [TS]

00:42:35   a kettle the fact that they know how to [TS]

00:42:38   entertain themselves with just a flute [TS]

00:42:40   and foot bells they've dealt with in [TS]

00:42:43   period lice and that's right that's [TS]

00:42:46   right thing in the civil war thing you [TS]

00:42:48   gotta it's okay if you have please like [TS]

00:42:49   that makes it more realistic [TS]

00:42:50   yeah you figure figure out the fleas in [TS]

00:42:52   the lights you figure out that that [TS]

00:42:55   though that suddenly those skills which [TS]

00:42:57   we all thought were laughable are going [TS]

00:42:59   to be are going to come in very handy [TS]

00:43:02   and the traveling minstrels and the and [TS]

00:43:07   the the jugglers and the Juggalos [TS]

00:43:10   what are all technology just waiting for [TS]

00:43:14   the apocalypse they are and I and I feel [TS]

00:43:16   like I mean and this may be the the this [TS]

00:43:18   may be my cold war childhood speaking [TS]

00:43:21   but I cannot help but think all these [TS]

00:43:23   alternative cultures are in some ways [TS]

00:43:26   secret apocalypse cults and everybody is [TS]

00:43:30   privately preparing for what they have [TS]

00:43:33   because this is absolutely true [TS]

00:43:34   on the flipside like all the gun nuts [TS]

00:43:37   all the survivalists all the people who [TS]

00:43:39   are more out about what they call [TS]

00:43:44   preparing for the race riots or [TS]

00:43:48   preparing for the water wars are [TS]

00:43:50   preparing for the when the government [TS]

00:43:53   comes and what they're really doing is [TS]

00:43:55   fantasizing about those things they're [TS]

00:43:57   praying for those eventualities because [TS]

00:44:01   their preparation is like it's so [TS]

00:44:04   excited they're so enthusiastic about it [TS]

00:44:08   they are hoping to God that the grid [TS]

00:44:12   goes down and that they are defending [TS]

00:44:14   their homes against hordes and anna and [TS]

00:44:20   i really feel like like the fantasy [TS]

00:44:22   world and the and the what we you know [TS]

00:44:25   what we think of as the nerd world at [TS]

00:44:29   least the at least the steampunky ran [TS]

00:44:31   fairy artisanal craftsman side of things [TS]

00:44:36   it's also like suddenly prepping for the [TS]

00:44:41   for the end times in and the other did [TS]

00:44:43   never never thought of that because when [TS]

00:44:45   you think about somebody you know that [TS]

00:44:47   the typical thing would be when you say [TS]

00:44:49   like not even renfaire just like a [TS]

00:44:50   medieval Middle Ages kind of dressup [TS]

00:44:53   thinking why would you want to spend [TS]

00:44:55   your weekend acting like you're living [TS]

00:44:57   in this really squalid time with no [TS]

00:44:59   resources and you know horrible health [TS]

00:45:03   conditions and terrible food and if you [TS]

00:45:05   look at instead instead of looking to [TS]

00:45:07   the past and pining is the instead of [TS]

00:45:09   thinking let's look into the future and [TS]

00:45:10   preparing yeah thats turkey leg is going [TS]

00:45:12   to look pretty good couple years I think [TS]

00:45:15   what they're doing is making apocalypse [TS]

00:45:16   fun [TS]

00:45:17   and and you know and its really like the [TS]

00:45:23   tech people who are right in the middle [TS]

00:45:26   of the culture who are you know the tech [TS]

00:45:30   people are betting that everything keeps [TS]

00:45:34   going you know protect people are laying [TS]

00:45:37   the groundwork for the fact that the [TS]

00:45:40   grid does not go down and that really [TS]

00:45:42   the skill sets that are going to be [TS]

00:45:44   needed in the future our skill sets [TS]

00:45:47   built on what we're doing now and it's [TS]

00:45:51   like that conversation i had with [TS]

00:45:53   jonathan coulton many years ago when you [TS]

00:45:56   know when my daughter was born his kids [TS]

00:45:59   are a little bit older than mine and I [TS]

00:46:01   was like you know I was expressing my [TS]

00:46:03   kind of hippie like suspicion of screen [TS]

00:46:06   time [TS]

00:46:06   well i don't think i'm going to you know [TS]

00:46:08   i don't think i'm likely going to let my [TS]

00:46:10   kid what you look very interesting [TS]

00:46:11   thoughts on that that really have [TS]

00:46:12   heavily influenced me [TS]

00:46:14   yeah and he he was like well why are you [TS]

00:46:16   doing that like all they're going to [TS]

00:46:19   have our screens in the future where [TS]

00:46:22   we're going [TS]

00:46:23   the future where we're going where [TS]

00:46:25   that's going to be their lot they're [TS]

00:46:27   lighter in which we will spend the rest [TS]

00:46:29   of our lives right and so the longer you [TS]

00:46:32   deprive her of screens it's like you are [TS]

00:46:36   it's like you are refusing to let her [TS]

00:46:38   use a fork because they didn't use to [TS]

00:46:41   have Forks or something like these are [TS]

00:46:43   tools things like a even ate like to me [TS]

00:46:45   this is super productive but might that [TS]

00:46:47   I walked away with thinking well you [TS]

00:46:49   know I i want i read so much bullshit i [TS]

00:46:52   don't like to my daughter but she wants [TS]

00:46:55   to read it so it doesn't matter if it's [TS]

00:46:57   barbie or my little pony or green [TS]

00:46:59   lantern like I will read it to her [TS]

00:47:01   because she wants to be read to [TS]

00:47:03   I want her to hear lots of words I want [TS]

00:47:05   her to read lots of words and if those [TS]

00:47:07   are the words to get her excited that's [TS]

00:47:09   good i i music there's a part of me that [TS]

00:47:11   I really admit this is reductive but [TS]

00:47:12   after to having that conversation with [TS]

00:47:14   with you know we have different names [TS]

00:47:16   John that falling really different sides [TS]

00:47:17   of the fence about this it's interesting [TS]

00:47:18   to talk to them about this [TS]

00:47:20   no yeah they argue with one another and [TS]

00:47:23   still they still do but you know but for [TS]

00:47:25   me it's like that's the new literacy [TS]

00:47:27   like it just doesn't feel like literacy [TS]

00:47:28   to us I so what I say to my daughter [TS]

00:47:31   you're only allowed to look at [TS]

00:47:32   educational books for an hour a day I [TS]

00:47:34   know it's not exactly the same thing you [TS]

00:47:37   can look at books but they need to be [TS]

00:47:38   educational there was a time when people [TS]

00:47:40   thought books were like or something [TS]

00:47:41   they're gonna be really upsetting a time [TS]

00:47:43   with a you know theocracy in place like [TS]

00:47:45   that's really dangerous information [TS]

00:47:46   well I mean I feel like even when she's [TS]

00:47:48   playing monument valley like even when [TS]

00:47:50   she's trying to buy and failing thank [TS]

00:47:52   God to buy buy toys for talking a [TS]

00:47:54   cartoon cat on a screen like at the same [TS]

00:47:56   time she's learning to manipulate that [TS]

00:47:57   she's learned that she's learning to [TS]

00:47:59   type a little bit and I didn't really [TS]

00:48:01   learn to type until I was like 18 right [TS]

00:48:04   and Mike my God if you don't have that I [TS]

00:48:06   mean god bless the people who don't play [TS]

00:48:08   their kids recorded music and make them [TS]

00:48:10   play with blocks [TS]

00:48:11   haha we have a friend who goes to [TS]

00:48:13   waldorf and water is a very interesting [TS]

00:48:15   educational program but it on the face [TS]

00:48:18   of it freaks me out a little bit like my [TS]

00:48:20   psu group also well I don't know enough [TS]

00:48:23   about it everybody does what r says it's [TS]

00:48:24   not as bad as it sounds but you know the [TS]

00:48:26   idea is it's really all about playing [TS]

00:48:27   playing play which is great but like you [TS]

00:48:29   play with fairly simple toys and you're [TS]

00:48:31   not supposed to listen to recorded music [TS]

00:48:32   you've never let you never do anything [TS]

00:48:34   with screens at all until a certain age [TS]

00:48:36   and anyway I don't be productive about [TS]

00:48:38   it but like for me like I feel like [TS]

00:48:40   somewhat my life has been made so much [TS]

00:48:42   better and frustrating sometimes [TS]

00:48:44   bye-bye this computer stuff but we have [TS]

00:48:46   to understand that back to your thing [TS]

00:48:47   about the Millennials we still think [TS]

00:48:48   about this computer stuff for them [TS]

00:48:50   that's just life in the sooner like she [TS]

00:48:52   gets good at that version of life the [TS]

00:48:54   more prepared she'll be to make good [TS]

00:48:55   decisions when that stuff gets weird [TS]

00:48:57   which it will in a couple years right [TS]

00:48:59   anyway I've never so far off george RR [TS]

00:49:02   martin but-but-but but-but-but in what [TS]

00:49:05   you're saying so I swear I I feel like I [TS]

00:49:08   feel like it's very interesting how much [TS]

00:49:10   how how many trends in the popular [TS]

00:49:16   culture in and sort of every direction [TS]

00:49:18   of every political stripe can be traced [TS]

00:49:22   back to a kind of 222 an apocalypse [TS]

00:49:27   origin story and the mainstream [TS]

00:49:33   culture just putters along in a state of [TS]

00:49:35   of like unreflective mass of block step [TS]

00:49:42   informant even the negative thinking is [TS]

00:49:44   that things will get worse in a way that [TS]

00:49:46   will mostly understand [TS]

00:49:47   yeah right its gonna be like oh but you [TS]

00:49:50   know it's gonna be hard it's gonna be [TS]

00:49:51   harder to it's gonna be harder to get a [TS]

00:49:53   my shade of lipstick in the future [TS]

00:49:56   because uh because apparently it's not [TS]

00:50:00   as your Selina Kyle and the dark knight [TS]

00:50:02   rises like great cosmetics after she got [TS]

00:50:06   off the electricity [TS]

00:50:07   she really did and I did I can only [TS]

00:50:09   assume that she spent all the time she [TS]

00:50:11   wasn't on screen like up at macys going [TS]

00:50:14   through the darkened I think it's clear [TS]

00:50:16   that she moved into account a mac [TS]

00:50:17   cosmetics store before being shut off [TS]

00:50:19   all the attack [TS]

00:50:20   yes and she's just to disappear for a [TS]

00:50:22   while you'd be like where did you know [TS]

00:50:24   did you notice that I was like personal [TS]

00:50:25   and halfway very beautiful woman but [TS]

00:50:27   like which everybody else [TS]

00:50:29   it looks like half a Dickens character [TS]

00:50:30   that she looks amazing [TS]

00:50:33   well this is the thing I think a lot of [TS]

00:50:34   the female superheroes what we forget is [TS]

00:50:36   that their mask is makeup right they [TS]

00:50:40   don't [TS]

00:50:41   the female superheroes often do not wear [TS]

00:50:42   masks because they because they're [TS]

00:50:45   pretty face is necessary and so Batman [TS]

00:50:48   and bein have these hideous the [TS]

00:50:50   appendages on their faces [TS]

00:50:53   she is you know it's it's a it's a [TS]

00:50:57   skin-tight bodysuit and a animated face [TS]

00:51:00   like that's her costume but in any case [TS]

00:51:04   the tech people are the ones that are [TS]

00:51:07   curious to me because they are not part [TS]

00:51:10   of the lockstep mass culture that is [TS]

00:51:12   just going into the future and [TS]

00:51:15   reflectively they often trend culturally [TS]

00:51:19   with with these like apocalypse and [TS]

00:51:22   modern primitive calls but everything [TS]

00:51:26   that they do is contingent on if a on [TS]

00:51:30   faith that technology and technology [TS]

00:51:35   will survive that progress is linear and [TS]

00:51:38   always you know always building on the [TS]

00:51:42   last thing and that [TS]

00:51:44   that you know that if your kid doesn't [TS]

00:51:48   learn the swipe gesture across asswipe [TS]

00:51:51   screen that 10 years from now they won't [TS]

00:51:55   they won't be able to even read a book [TS]

00:51:59   because everything will let the swiping [TS]

00:52:01   is like once but now that we're in a [TS]

00:52:04   swipe world everything will follow from [TS]

00:52:07   the swype and that's a that is a curious [TS]

00:52:12   kind of faith and a curious like [TS]

00:52:17   whatever the Articles of Confederation [TS]

00:52:19   are of people that go to Macworld and [TS]

00:52:24   are like tell us [TS]

00:52:26   oracle with what what are the new you [TS]

00:52:30   know are finding his lips [TS]

00:52:31   yeah what are the new swipes is plural [TS]

00:52:33   marriage allowed yet in at back world if [TS]

00:52:38   not it's only a matter of time like that [TS]

00:52:41   that whole that whole subset of and [TS]

00:52:44   which makes up a huge part of my world [TS]

00:52:46   the people that I know and r & m friends [TS]

00:52:50   with we discuss you at the meetings I [TS]

00:52:52   know you do online journal like and its [TS]

00:52:55   allies get see it there's a lot of [TS]

00:52:57   livejournal talk that's like when is [TS]

00:52:59   just when are we gonna finally when will [TS]

00:53:01   jontron into the room when well Jon [TS]

00:53:03   teach the swipe his negativity has [TS]

00:53:08   become problematic apocalypse apocalypse [TS]

00:53:13   george RR martin here here here was the [TS]

00:53:19   first story that george RR martin told [TS]

00:53:21   me I said how to you and your wife meet [TS]

00:53:24   and he said in the early seventies she [TS]

00:53:31   was she worked for Ringling Brothers [TS]

00:53:33   Circus and we went to a early convention [TS]

00:53:42   cut comics convention [TS]

00:53:45   and because it was the early seventies [TS]

00:53:47   there was an all like a women-only sauna [TS]

00:53:53   at the comics convention and I went into [TS]

00:53:59   the women's only sauna naked to liberate [TS]

00:54:04   the gender bias inherent you know in a [TS]

00:54:08   woman's only sana-i I went in there as [TS]

00:54:12   like a as a warrior men's rights warrior [TS]

00:54:17   so what's already 1971 or whatever [TS]

00:54:20   that's very courageous and she it's the [TS]

00:54:24   real oh she felt like there is no it was [TS]

00:54:28   very appealing my you know my bolt the [TS]

00:54:30   seasoning serious this is the real story [TS]

00:54:33   yeah and I was just like I mean I'm [TS]

00:54:38   standing on top of like a teetering pile [TS]

00:54:42   of like under stories or I'm just like [TS]

00:54:45   okay wait a minute now what will [TS]

00:54:47   she's she works for Ringling Brothers [TS]

00:54:49   you guys are at a at a world con there [TS]

00:54:52   is a woman's only sauna that you were [TS]

00:54:55   liberating and that's how you met and [TS]

00:55:00   he's like well I mean I was you know my [TS]

00:55:03   wife hit bottom of the hill [TS]

00:55:04   exactly he may your wife of john bands [TS]

00:55:08   like show he and he's like well and then [TS]

00:55:11   I married someone else for a period but [TS]

00:55:14   then we met again always look prettier [TS]

00:55:16   for Windows but I was like okay this is [TS]

00:55:20   all happening in 1971 this is a separate [TS]

00:55:23   thread of the culture that goes back a [TS]

00:55:29   long long time that he is one of the you [TS]

00:55:32   know he's one of the early early early [TS]

00:55:34   he said he you know worldcon was like a [TS]

00:55:36   big part of his his universe at a time [TS]

00:55:43   up the where with the the coach culture [TS]

00:55:49   at large and even the nerd historians [TS]

00:55:52   like have a hard time going that far [TS]

00:55:55   back in the culture to a time when like [TS]

00:55:58   I I so I and I swear to you that that [TS]

00:56:03   they they absolutely were probably [TS]

00:56:05   wearing puffy sleeve garments there [TS]

00:56:08   might have been a good jingle stick gets [TS]

00:56:12   our apt though and so I'm I'm like I am [TS]

00:56:16   so enthralled and so elated picturing [TS]

00:56:20   these nerds at the dawn of what we think [TS]

00:56:25   of as like fan culture and so his wife [TS]

00:56:30   is sitting there and I'm like tell me [TS]

00:56:32   your version of this story and she's [TS]

00:56:34   like well you know what Iowa i'm a fan I [TS]

00:56:37   am one of the early fans and we were the [TS]

00:56:40   first generation of people who recognize [TS]

00:56:42   that being a fan was its own thing and [TS]

00:56:49   I've spent my whole life as a fan of [TS]

00:56:51   science fiction and um and fantasy and [TS]

00:56:58   it's made a beautiful life for me so [TS]

00:57:02   that's lovely [TS]

00:57:03   it was extraordinary extraordinary to [TS]

00:57:07   hear like that they were they created [TS]

00:57:12   that culture in the quiet in a way you [TS]

00:57:15   know what I mean like they were not [TS]

00:57:16   trying to interact with the larger [TS]

00:57:17   culture they found one another at these [TS]

00:57:20   at these comic cons and it was an [TS]

00:57:24   imperfect it was an imperfect center [TS]

00:57:29   probably but close enough for the circus [TS]

00:57:31   people and the burlesque people and the [TS]

00:57:34   vaudeville people and them fantasy and [TS]

00:57:37   science fiction people like they all [TS]

00:57:40   they all found each other in a way that [TS]

00:57:42   I think we think of we think of that [TS]

00:57:44   experiencing experience happening really [TS]

00:57:47   in modern times like that's the nerd [TS]

00:57:50   narrative but what you just described in [TS]

00:57:52   some ways is what how people talk about [TS]

00:57:54   things like Woodstock how you get that [TS]

00:57:56   mean i mean and i don't mean to sound [TS]

00:57:58   productive but I mean like in the same [TS]

00:57:59   sense of going like there was a time [TS]

00:58:00   when people who are really into free [TS]

00:58:02   speech and weed and free love and beat [TS]

00:58:08   poetry and all these things that now we [TS]

00:58:10   all just slapping the same pile [TS]

00:58:12   there was a time when the all the people [TS]

00:58:13   who are if you like outsiders of a [TS]

00:58:15   certain kind of middle-class you know [TS]

00:58:17   outsider like found a commonality in [TS]

00:58:19   that and now that all seems really [TS]

00:58:21   obvious but at the time it probably was [TS]

00:58:23   not that obvious [TS]

00:58:24   not at all and in this case it's even [TS]

00:58:26   more obscure the nerd thing was [TS]

00:58:27   contemporaneous with that and and yet a [TS]

00:58:30   tiny tiny fraction of the size of you [TS]

00:58:34   know like it was not general interest it [TS]

00:58:36   was very specific so so it's also like [TS]

00:58:40   one underground you know that's when [TS]

00:58:42   your when your body are chrome was [TS]

00:58:43   started to come out this rod up [TS]

00:58:44   underground comics were huge then for [TS]

00:58:47   its the cabs are old you know which is [TS]

00:58:49   franco is doing with with Marvel stuff [TS]

00:58:51   was pretty out there that [TS]

00:58:53   yeah right never then everybody's [TS]

00:58:55   getting hi to her but so so meeting him [TS]

00:58:59   and his wife and seeing their connection [TS]

00:59:02   to this culture and then he has cs4 [TS]

00:59:04   assistance George RR Martin's for [TS]

00:59:06   systems whom he describes as his minions [TS]

00:59:09   they describe themselves as his main [TS]

00:59:11   lights right all four of them are women [TS]

00:59:16   who are a little zaftig who have dark [TS]

00:59:22   curly hair but they wear in braids and [TS]

00:59:27   one of them is British there couple that [TS]

00:59:28   are like a Americans one of them never I [TS]

00:59:32   never actually saw only heard spoken of [TS]

00:59:36   they're all like hilarious super-smart [TS]

00:59:40   like in their thirties or forties and [TS]

00:59:47   they act as his intermediaries as his [TS]

00:59:50   planners as his you know they're there [TS]

00:59:54   more than assistance you know they're [TS]

00:59:56   like executive assistants but like there [TS]

00:59:58   are four of them and they interact with [TS]

00:59:59   one [TS]

00:59:59   one [TS]

01:00:00   another seamlessly like it's a culture [TS]

01:00:02   night at hand and it's very captivating [TS]

01:00:09   and been like why and you know when they [TS]

01:00:11   kind of a flirt with him and he flirts [TS]

01:00:13   with them like it's a their interactions [TS]

01:00:16   are very flirty and it and it's exactly [TS]

01:00:20   the way that people on the jonathan [TS]

01:00:23   coulton cruise or people at Comicon [TS]

01:00:25   interact with one another [TS]

01:00:27   you know I've seen it before I've seen [TS]

01:00:29   this culture before where it's there's a [TS]

01:00:32   lot of flirtation there's a lot of [TS]

01:00:34   sexual energy combination like [TS]

01:00:37   confidence and lightness sometimes you [TS]

01:00:39   know what i mean but isn't it kind of [TS]

01:00:40   like oh I'm I don't know what I'm doing [TS]

01:00:42   I'm a flighty idiot but now like the [TS]

01:00:45   smart people but we're very confident [TS]

01:00:46   and as you like to say like aren't [TS]

01:00:48   asking for your approval about how this [TS]

01:00:50   is going exactly and I think if you if [TS]

01:00:52   you got into a political conversation [TS]

01:00:54   with anyone of them their politics would [TS]

01:00:56   be absolutely dead on you know what I [TS]

01:00:58   mean like there there's no it isn't a it [TS]

01:01:02   isn't a a patriarchal cult-like all [TS]

01:01:05   these women are fully empowered and yet [TS]

01:01:08   they are play-acting a kind of sexuality [TS]

01:01:13   and george RR martin is the is the Papa [TS]

01:01:16   figure and everybody's very comfortable [TS]

01:01:19   with that they're very comfortable with [TS]

01:01:21   with I mean you know this is a guy who [TS]

01:01:24   in the early seventies when liberated [TS]

01:01:26   the women sauna can't forget that you [TS]

01:01:28   know and and when I think about and a [TS]

01:01:30   husband and I had a long conversation [TS]

01:01:31   about this where we were both like you [TS]

01:01:34   know there were the nerve they were the [TS]

01:01:35   cool kids over here having sex with each [TS]

01:01:37   other and wearing polo shirts with the [TS]

01:01:39   collars up and going to beer parties and [TS]

01:01:42   then they're they're nerds over here [TS]

01:01:43   having sex with each other and go into [TS]

01:01:44   beer parties and wearing their velvet [TS]

01:01:47   collars popped or whatever and how the [TS]

01:01:51   fuck did we end up being like right in [TS]

01:01:54   between in the in the narrowband [TS]

01:01:57   pinheiro cultural band of kids that just [TS]

01:01:59   weren't having sex with each other you [TS]

01:02:02   know we were sitting there silently [TS]

01:02:03   judging both cultures and in fact uh [TS]

01:02:08   sleeping the district slept alone every [TS]

01:02:11   single night [TS]

01:02:13   it's so I'd love John's describe it [TS]

01:02:16   might have been in it when the husband [TS]

01:02:18   interview Martin was a pretty [TS]

01:02:21   interesting interview but point John [TS]

01:02:23   Hodgman was describing the way that he [TS]

01:02:25   dressed when he was in high school here [TS]

01:02:27   to talk about this like kind of a doctor [TS]

01:02:29   who thing going on he carried a [TS]

01:02:31   briefcase he had a ponytail yeah yeah he [TS]

01:02:34   was you know he was working working a [TS]

01:02:37   lot of different angles and figure out [TS]

01:02:38   which one was going to be coming [TS]

01:02:39   together like a lot of people cobbling [TS]

01:02:41   together your own idea of what cool was [TS]

01:02:43   with without you know much outside [TS]

01:02:45   influenced this dear you want another [TS]

01:02:48   yeah I i understood that uh I my mom [TS]

01:02:53   would not buy me an izod shirt because [TS]

01:02:56   they were $85 or something like that at [TS]

01:02:59   a time when you could get a shirt with a [TS]

01:03:00   little fire breathing dragon on it from [TS]

01:03:02   sears for fourteen dollars right and uh [TS]

01:03:06   I remember going to the fabric store [TS]

01:03:08   with her one day when I was in ninth [TS]

01:03:13   grade or something like that which is [TS]

01:03:14   already like you're going to the fabric [TS]

01:03:15   store with your mom in ninth grade loser [TS]

01:03:19   and I'm walking through the fabric store [TS]

01:03:21   and there's a little embroidered [TS]

01:03:23   alligator do but she's he's like he's a [TS]

01:03:29   happy alligator this island clearly not [TS]

01:03:33   the look at southgate he's about twice [TS]

01:03:35   as big as the cost allegorical and he's [TS]

01:03:37   like looking at the least looking at the [TS]

01:03:39   viewer and maybe even is giving a [TS]

01:03:42   thumbs-up and I said you know what [TS]

01:03:48   that's my alligator and i bought it and [TS]

01:03:51   I had it sewn on [TS]

01:03:53   [Music] [TS]

01:03:55   I had it sewn on actually my Levi's [TS]

01:03:57   jacket and then like smiling alligator [TS]

01:04:03   was my little motif and and I I i might [TS]

01:04:08   even had it i bought a second one and [TS]

01:04:10   had its own my ski sweater you know like [TS]

01:04:12   I was I like Laverne with al [TS]

01:04:15   yeah except there's a smiling alligator [TS]

01:04:17   pears up and I was like I firmly [TS]

01:04:20   believed that I would be respected and [TS]

01:04:23   loved for my hilarious [TS]

01:04:26   outsider take on being an insider and we [TS]

01:04:31   will be constant version who made I was [TS]

01:04:33   just reviled I was reviled by everyone [TS]

01:04:37   no one liked it no one thought it was [TS]

01:04:40   good you know and I was so proud like [TS]

01:04:42   you know smart my smile an alligator [TS]

01:04:45   check me out [TS]

01:04:46   I you know I get it right no wrong [TS]

01:04:51   although you know maybe yes maybe if I [TS]

01:04:53   just stuck around in my smile an [TS]

01:04:55   alligator 10 long enough [TS]

01:04:58   good now you know I'd now be at the at [TS]

01:05:02   the center of some you know some advil [TS]

01:05:06   burlesque culture think of all the songs [TS]

01:05:08   you can deliver haha [TS]

01:05:14   [Music] [TS]