Roderick on the Line

Ep. 115: "Rerememory"


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00:00:24   hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:28   oh it's going really well it's pretty [TS]

00:00:31   early [TS]

00:00:32   it's pretty early i slept a very very [TS]

00:00:34   very long time last night and i feel [TS]

00:00:36   like i could sleep another very long [TS]

00:00:37   time I feel like like the Merlin that [TS]

00:00:40   used to sleep a long time was an earlier [TS]

00:00:43   version of Merlin it was Merlin one [TS]

00:00:46   point out and lately all i think of is [TS]

00:00:50   Merlin just never getting enough sleep [TS]

00:00:51   but you you're telling me that that [TS]

00:00:53   Merlin two point O sometimes sleeps 4 11 [TS]

00:00:57   hour so Merlin 2014 has started to find [TS]

00:01:00   a lot of value and sleep i will tell you [TS]

00:01:02   that in this is super interesting i'm [TS]

00:01:04   sure people but like I realize like how [TS]

00:01:06   many of my afflictions i could write [TS]

00:01:08   down to the fact that I just wasn't [TS]

00:01:09   sleeping very well so i can I try to [TS]

00:01:12   make myself sleep well now and I'm and [TS]

00:01:13   it is definitely helped my old man [TS]

00:01:15   quotient and all the things where like [TS]

00:01:18   people wonder why I'm such a homebody [TS]

00:01:20   and never go anywhere like but I have to [TS]

00:01:22   go to bed 11 if i do that my dad I mean [TS]

00:01:27   you know my mom sort of famously only [TS]

00:01:29   sleeps okay yeah I guess she she gets a [TS]

00:01:33   full night's sleep but she wakes up at [TS]

00:01:34   four in the morning my dad would stay up [TS]

00:01:37   all night and wake up in the morning [TS]

00:01:39   just fine and you know like it get by on [TS]

00:01:42   for five hours of sleep and i remember [TS]

00:01:44   when i was young hearing that older [TS]

00:01:46   people didn't need as much sleep who i [TS]

00:01:49   do not know if i am finding that to be [TS]

00:01:51   personally true it means you're still [TS]

00:01:53   young of myself diet that's exactly [TS]

00:01:55   right absolutely on i still need 12 [TS]

00:01:58   hours of sleep like a four-year-old I [TS]

00:02:00   yeah I don't know what the other [TS]

00:02:02   successes me and all kinds of things is [TS]

00:02:03   like I think that my amount of enjoyment [TS]

00:02:06   of life in general and many things in [TS]

00:02:08   specific i have to admit comes from [TS]

00:02:11   something related to how much control I [TS]

00:02:13   have over the environment like I think [TS]

00:02:16   one reason i didn't like jobs a lot in [TS]

00:02:17   the past because I didn't have that much [TS]

00:02:19   control over the environment you had to [TS]

00:02:21   be in with the overhead lights and [TS]

00:02:22   people and stuff like that and I wonder [TS]

00:02:25   if part of it is like when you have more [TS]

00:02:26   control over your environment when you [TS]

00:02:28   get older you know I mean like the [TS]

00:02:30   people can't leave you alone you sit [TS]

00:02:31   around and watch stories you clean the [TS]

00:02:32   cat box you go to sleep hit him well [TS]

00:02:34   suits you and then again [TS]

00:02:36   but for the morning planet I to go to [TS]

00:02:38   DMV they needed yeah and I maybe that [TS]

00:02:41   all those like old people need less [TS]

00:02:42   sleep stories are failing to take into [TS]

00:02:46   account the three-and-a-half hour nap [TS]

00:02:48   they take sitting up in their chair [TS]

00:02:50   watching walkerr texas ranger you know [TS]

00:02:55   like that that's that counts down time I [TS]

00:02:57   think well yeah I mean it's yes I [TS]

00:03:00   totally agree and but it'sit's weird [TS]

00:03:03   like you know old people also they do [TS]

00:03:05   stuff like the poop less and I think [TS]

00:03:07   that frustrates them we with old ppl [TS]

00:03:09   poopless I think they do i think i would [TS]

00:03:11   inside do you have into getting old but [TS]

00:03:12   I don't have i've known three old people [TS]

00:03:15   at least personally who you know as well [TS]

00:03:19   as you can know an old person they [TS]

00:03:20   become very opaque at a certain age [TS]

00:03:21   right when you want to talk about [TS]

00:03:23   memories truth but they also talk to you [TS]

00:03:27   about their poop [TS]

00:03:28   well I i will just say that for my [TS]

00:03:30   grandmother's generation I think I've [TS]

00:03:31   said this before my grandmother i think [TS]

00:03:33   is somewhat emblematic of our generation [TS]

00:03:35   she's a post Kellogg American and she [TS]

00:03:38   really thought and she would be so [TS]

00:03:41   embarrassed my leg I'm so embarrassed [TS]

00:03:42   and talk about a poop on the radio no [TS]

00:03:44   more brand the better [TS]

00:03:45   yeah but you know I think you're [TS]

00:03:48   expected to make every morning you know [TS]

00:03:50   what's interesting he didn't leave the [TS]

00:03:52   house you would like you know be going [TS]

00:03:53   out without your spots or something like [TS]

00:03:54   that [TS]

00:03:55   I've told you the story about the priest [TS]

00:03:56   that cornered me and a in the fish bar [TS]

00:03:59   in Sandpoint Idaho happy how many bm's I [TS]

00:04:03   had a it's that is opening line [TS]

00:04:06   pretty much yes next to where it's [TS]

00:04:08   Johnny they learn they learn what really [TS]

00:04:10   works [TS]

00:04:11   we're at the fish bar which is a [TS]

00:04:13   bar-shaped like a fish right you walk in [TS]

00:04:15   the mouth of the giant fish I'm sure [TS]

00:04:17   I've told the story right we're drinking [TS]

00:04:19   red beer which is a which is a North [TS]

00:04:21   Idaho tradition a half bear half tomato [TS]

00:04:24   juice [TS]

00:04:24   oh god and he he leaned over [TS]

00:04:28   I mean we've been chatting but uh but he [TS]

00:04:31   was like but you know let me just break [TS]

00:04:34   it let me ask you how many bm's do you [TS]

00:04:36   have a day [TS]

00:04:37   I was like oh boy I don't know 10 [TS]

00:04:40   sometimes none for a couple of days [TS]

00:04:43   sometimes a whole bunch all at once he's [TS]

00:04:46   like he's like no no that's that's not [TS]

00:04:50   healthy you need AB you need to have two [TS]

00:04:52   or three good solid healthy bm's a day [TS]

00:04:56   this man this man is is sitting here [TS]

00:04:58   he's sitting there he's drinking tomato [TS]

00:05:00   juice and beer like an animal and [TS]

00:05:01   telling you that you should have three [TS]

00:05:03   good BM zayday what he said is that [TS]

00:05:05   possible [TS]

00:05:06   well he was a priest he's got like [TS]

00:05:09   special knowledge is not allowed to lie [TS]

00:05:10   so I so from then you know he's having [TS]

00:05:14   this conversation with me when I'm 19 I [TS]

00:05:16   guess yeah [TS]

00:05:17   so from that time to the present i have [TS]

00:05:19   always in the back of my head had a [TS]

00:05:21   little sort of tally sheet and I I'm if [TS]

00:05:25   if 3pm zayday is the standard of good [TS]

00:05:28   health [TS]

00:05:28   I'm like probably 8200 bm's down like I [TS]

00:05:35   have so much catching up to do and I'm [TS]

00:05:37   not looking forward to it you know i'm [TS]

00:05:39   not looking forward to getting take that [TS]

00:05:41   accounting square that sounds like [TS]

00:05:43   bragging John that sounds like bragging [TS]

00:05:45   to me to me the problem is if you're [TS]

00:05:47   having three BMC they aren't good BM [TS]

00:05:48   something went wrong [TS]

00:05:50   he's saying that they were nice and you [TS]

00:05:51   need to have good ones and I'm not sure [TS]

00:05:53   whether you have to be eating in a in a [TS]

00:05:55   cafeteria of a sort of a seminary who to [TS]

00:05:59   get the to the right balance of like [TS]

00:06:01   jello salad and and chicken cutlets or [TS]

00:06:05   whatever it is that they're you know [TS]

00:06:06   like green green beans let me ask john [TS]

00:06:09   how much heavenly hash to eat up this [TS]

00:06:12   episode of Roderick online is once again [TS]

00:06:14   sponsored by our very good friends at [TS]

00:06:16   Squarespace you know Squarespace it is [TS]

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00:06:24   store and they make the process so [TS]

00:06:27   simple they offer an easy drag-and-drop [TS]

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00:06:34   are responsive so they look great on [TS]

00:06:36   every device also kind of a guy's [TS]

00:06:39   podcasting podcasting let me remind you [TS]

00:06:43   that Squarespace is the easiest way that [TS]

00:06:44   I know of to set up and host your own [TS]

00:06:46   podcast believe me I know whereof I [TS]

00:06:48   speak because as with everything [TS]

00:06:50   episode of Robert on the line the very [TS]

00:06:52   show you're enjoying right now lives on [TS]

00:06:54   Squarespace that's just how we roll [TS]

00:06:56   all you gotta do is upload your audio [TS]

00:06:57   file you attach it to a new post and [TS]

00:06:59   boom you are doing big-time podcasting [TS]

00:07:01   it's that simple [TS]

00:07:03   guys I've been at this stuff for almost [TS]

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00:07:15   please do remember to tell Squarespace [TS]

00:07:17   that you heard about them from your [TS]

00:07:18   palate Roderick on the line because [TS]

00:07:20   listeners of this program get a free [TS]

00:07:22   trial plus ten percent off any package [TS]

00:07:24   they choose by using the special offer [TS]

00:07:26   code supertrain at checkout our thanks [TS]

00:07:29   to squarespace for all the great support [TS]

00:07:31   with Roderick online we could not do it [TS]

00:07:33   without i have sometimes I think back at [TS]

00:07:37   that the experiences I had a young man [TS]

00:07:39   and marvel at them and pay what the hell [TS]

00:07:44   was what the hell was happening and also [TS]

00:07:46   how how do i remember i mean there are [TS]

00:07:49   people around me who can't remember [TS]

00:07:51   like what somebody said to them on the [TS]

00:07:54   phone you're so good that is you're so [TS]

00:07:55   good at that i do not know why these [TS]

00:07:58   things sticking my head but you know I [TS]

00:08:00   every one of them is like a small [TS]

00:08:02   component of the DNA of my of my mantra [TS]

00:08:05   when I wake up in the morning it's like [TS]

00:08:07   right [TS]

00:08:08   three beams today something every day [TS]

00:08:11   you're already in the whole everyday 3pm [TS]

00:08:13   today who and you know remember the [TS]

00:08:15   Battle of Midway and also that will [TS]

00:08:20   stroll that-that-that-that time that I [TS]

00:08:24   use that word wrong in 1981 that guy [TS]

00:08:27   with the tattoos on his hands that I [TS]

00:08:29   insulted when i was working at steves [TS]

00:08:30   Broadway is still mad at me i'm sure [TS]

00:08:32   you're there like you are like you're [TS]

00:08:35   like a mythical greek beast you know [TS]

00:08:38   it's kind of like almost like a [TS]

00:08:39   Cassandra thing you know you you're [TS]

00:08:43   condemned to never be able to forget [TS]

00:08:44   never forget [TS]

00:08:48   that's right this is what scares me [TS]

00:08:49   about my stupid kid is like I've got now [TS]

00:08:51   so into the thing of going like my kid [TS]

00:08:54   is just I don't know if she's just not [TS]

00:08:56   receiving information if that [TS]

00:08:58   information is being poorly encoded on [TS]

00:09:00   her hard drive but we have a big problem [TS]

00:09:02   with things like so [TS]

00:09:03   and understanding the role of socks and [TS]

00:09:05   being able to leave the house this get [TS]

00:09:06   ready for this kit is the role of socks [TS]

00:09:08   you need them [TS]

00:09:09   yeah because then you gotta put shoes on [TS]

00:09:11   before you leave that's 25 minutes right [TS]

00:09:12   there so I I've gotten into this [TS]

00:09:15   terrible habit of thinking that my [TS]

00:09:16   daughter doesn't hear anything and then [TS]

00:09:18   she'll just blow my gourd off by [TS]

00:09:20   remembering something deeply deeply [TS]

00:09:23   specific from when she was two or three [TS]

00:09:26   so you know okay so here's one thing [TS]

00:09:28   about memory that I think is super [TS]

00:09:29   interesting like I I know if you ask [TS]

00:09:31   most people what their earliest memories [TS]

00:09:32   are well first of all there's all this [TS]

00:09:35   stuff that they know because their [TS]

00:09:36   family told them that over and over but [TS]

00:09:38   most people's memories I think start [TS]

00:09:40   their memories as adults start around [TS]

00:09:43   age 5 so I just assume that something [TS]

00:09:46   happens and they just hit reset but I [TS]

00:09:49   stuff i've read recently indicates that [TS]

00:09:50   it actually it just starts a racing a [TS]

00:09:52   little bit around five or six x 10 [TS]

00:09:55   you're really you know you're getting a [TS]

00:09:57   lot of stuff that scares me i don't know [TS]

00:09:59   what kind of bullshit i said one time [TS]

00:10:00   that she's going to use to guide her [TS]

00:10:02   life regarding rpms every morning and [TS]

00:10:04   it's some offhanded thing I said I mean [TS]

00:10:07   I I still I remember like such specific [TS]

00:10:10   things like you're saying like talking [TS]

00:10:11   to the priest over the tomato beer i [TS]

00:10:12   have such specific recollection of these [TS]

00:10:14   things i can't imagine how that's [TS]

00:10:15   governing my day-to-day life and [TS]

00:10:16   terrifies me [TS]

00:10:17   well I i have to have to think about [TS]

00:10:20   that i think quite a bit because I am [TS]

00:10:24   governed by these constant little like [TS]

00:10:27   addenda to the constitution that i'm [TS]

00:10:32   always adding and a lot of them are [TS]

00:10:34   ancient and i have no idea whether three [TS]

00:10:37   beams a days is some kind of standard or [TS]

00:10:39   whether this priest was crazy or whether [TS]

00:10:42   this was some kind of like come on [TS]

00:10:44   or or whether it was like an invitation [TS]

00:10:46   to join the Society of Jesus that I [TS]

00:10:50   wasn't like oh I was misinterpreting [TS]

00:10:53   blue what he was saying maybe bm's were [TS]

00:10:55   like this mouse right like a Sacramento [TS]

00:10:59   something like how many beasts me laws [TS]

00:11:01   do you say add a piecemeal ah oh IC [TS]

00:11:06   right i don't know what the fuck was I [TS]

00:11:07   who knows but yeah but I talk to people [TS]

00:11:09   like that i have a couple of close [TS]

00:11:12   friends who both [TS]

00:11:15   kind of casually shrug off the the idea [TS]

00:11:19   that they have a really bad memory oh I [TS]

00:11:21   have a really bad memory shrug and and [TS]

00:11:26   normally I feel like that is a it's [TS]

00:11:30   either a self-fulfilling prophecy or [TS]

00:11:32   it's a or it's a cop-out you know like [TS]

00:11:34   oh you have a bad memory so let's get [TS]

00:11:37   out and get a jail free card for [TS]

00:11:39   distance but at but you know it within [TS]

00:11:42   this within the the spectrum of human [TS]

00:11:44   talents [TS]

00:11:45   it's obvious right about having a bad [TS]

00:11:47   memory is something that absolutely [TS]

00:11:49   could be an could be an affliction and [TS]

00:11:52   you wouldn't know you wouldn't even know [TS]

00:11:55   you had it on unless you were I mean the [TS]

00:11:59   only way you would know is by comparing [TS]

00:12:00   and contrasting your experience with [TS]

00:12:02   other people were there like you [TS]

00:12:03   remember that time when we [TS]

00:12:04   blankety-blank and you're like Jesus I [TS]

00:12:05   don't um so I guess I must have a bad [TS]

00:12:09   memory and but that that could be a [TS]

00:12:11   descriptor for a whole lot of things [TS]

00:12:13   that we're going on you know it's the [TS]

00:12:14   old like is is the orange that I see the [TS]

00:12:19   same orange that you see we both called [TS]

00:12:21   orange right but like how do you how do [TS]

00:12:23   you gauge you know how do you gauge [TS]

00:12:26   perception except by by this like [TS]

00:12:31   ungainly process of trying to describe [TS]

00:12:34   your experience and see if it's if it [TS]

00:12:36   squares with other people right so the [TS]

00:12:38   these friends that are like yeah I have [TS]

00:12:40   a really bad memory and and you know and [TS]

00:12:43   I go way of a bad memory for like stuff [TS]

00:12:45   that's happened recently you also have a [TS]

00:12:46   bad memory for stuff that happened to a [TS]

00:12:48   long time ago or is it just that you're [TS]

00:12:52   not turning experiences into metaphors [TS]

00:12:55   you know is it is it memory or is it is [TS]

00:12:58   part of the process of men of [TS]

00:13:00   remembering things like like changing [TS]

00:13:04   your changing memories into into [TS]

00:13:08   metaphors or stories or or changing them [TS]

00:13:12   into other forms that are easier to to [TS]

00:13:14   hold onto and process and not kind of a [TS]

00:13:18   kind of like unintentional heuristic [TS]

00:13:20   where it sits your brains equivalent of [TS]

00:13:22   like writing it down in the big book [TS]

00:13:23   right back [TS]

00:13:25   yeah right like like 25 other thing [TS]

00:13:29   has happened that night in the fish bar [TS]

00:13:32   in sandpoint idaho and honestly I could [TS]

00:13:36   not tell you I could not tell you who i [TS]

00:13:39   was there with or why I was there or any [TS]

00:13:45   of the other sort of lead up to why I [TS]

00:13:48   was at the fish bar in sandpoint idaho [TS]

00:13:49   and and where I was headed afterwards [TS]

00:13:52   like so so this priest said this to me i [TS]

00:13:57   found it remarkable i found it a [TS]

00:13:59   remarkable conversation at the time and [TS]

00:14:02   I mean it's not like when you it's not [TS]

00:14:03   like when he brought this up by I real [TS]

00:14:05   back it was like whoa I've gotta [TS]

00:14:07   remember this right but you know I was [TS]

00:14:10   engaged in the conversation was like [TS]

00:14:11   tell me more about how many poops I [TS]

00:14:13   should be having like this I'm up I'm I [TS]

00:14:15   feel like a grown-up and you are [TS]

00:14:16   definitely grown up this is not a [TS]

00:14:18   conversation I've had before with it [TS]

00:14:20   with a fellow grown-up and so now I'm [TS]

00:14:24   really engaged but then I took away and [TS]

00:14:28   you know i was also drunk but I took but [TS]

00:14:30   I took it away from there and put it in [TS]

00:14:33   the big book of my memory because [TS]

00:14:35   because of because I converted it [TS]

00:14:39   somehow into a into a story that that [TS]

00:14:44   was a that was a bigger story and it you [TS]

00:14:46   know it was more meaningful and so [TS]

00:14:49   within the fog of this like I remember [TS]

00:14:53   the fish bar I definitely know what [TS]

00:14:54   where that is i could probably find it [TS]

00:14:57   even but I don't know who I was there [TS]

00:15:01   with but then out of the fog [TS]

00:15:04   I can picture this priest I know exactly [TS]

00:15:08   what he looked like I know right where [TS]

00:15:10   you're at the bar where we were standing [TS]

00:15:11   and I remember the five minutes that we [TS]

00:15:15   SAT and talked about poop [TS]

00:15:19   and and so why did I convert that of all [TS]

00:15:23   the things that happened that night you [TS]

00:15:25   know why was that a thing that turned [TS]

00:15:27   into in a way like a marble-like it [TS]

00:15:31   became hard like a marble and went into [TS]

00:15:34   my bag of marbles and you'll find [TS]

00:15:35   yourself wondering you're disputing that [TS]

00:15:37   it didn't happen or it happened [TS]

00:15:39   differently than you remember [TS]

00:15:41   it's it's pretty well it's a the same [TS]

00:15:43   doctor who fixed point I'm like it you [TS]

00:15:45   know that this is the thing that [TS]

00:15:46   happened this is your marble well yeah [TS]

00:15:48   because unlike unlike childhood memories [TS]

00:15:51   where you know you've looked through the [TS]

00:15:54   photo album sitting on your mom's lap [TS]

00:15:56   she's told you about the picture you're [TS]

00:15:58   looking at that affects your memory of [TS]

00:16:01   it and pretty soon you're like I totally [TS]

00:16:03   remember the time I stuck a knife into a [TS]

00:16:05   light socket like well do you or have [TS]

00:16:08   you looked at that photo album so many [TS]

00:16:10   times and you know but but this memory [TS]

00:16:12   of this priest I had no second there was [TS]

00:16:17   no other confirmation of it is almost [TS]

00:16:19   like you could see it like a movie right [TS]

00:16:20   you can see it but that scene playing [TS]

00:16:22   yeah and and the way the way I [TS]

00:16:24   understand memory works is you recall [TS]

00:16:27   that clip you play it for yourself [TS]

00:16:31   Yuri remember it and then you store it [TS]

00:16:34   away so with each rira memory I have [TS]

00:16:38   surely altered it but but I'm not you [TS]

00:16:44   know I'm not it's such a simple story [TS]

00:16:46   right I'm not saying like the priest [TS]

00:16:48   rode in on a on a like a custom lowrider [TS]

00:16:51   bicycle and like there's no there's no [TS]

00:16:54   detail to it it's just this moment and [TS]

00:16:57   then and within that it's a very private [TS]

00:16:59   recollection of me standing next to this [TS]

00:17:01   guy and and I think part of what part of [TS]

00:17:06   why it was so so why I took it away was [TS]

00:17:10   that it was one of those early adult [TS]

00:17:14   interactions where I'm 19 the drinking [TS]

00:17:18   age in idaho at the time was still 19 so [TS]

00:17:22   i could I was legally in this bar and [TS]

00:17:25   legally standing there with one foot on [TS]

00:17:27   the brass rail [TS]

00:17:29   drinking an abomination really have [TS]

00:17:33   tomato juice half beer disgusting but it [TS]

00:17:37   was you know it was the flavor of this [TS]

00:17:40   ere this area and the fish bar is back [TS]

00:17:43   in the woods and that was during that [TS]

00:17:44   during that era of white supremacy in [TS]

00:17:47   northern Idaho so hayden lake and the be [TS]

00:17:52   a white nationalists were very active in [TS]

00:17:55   that area at the time and it so there [TS]

00:17:59   was all this like all this adulthood [TS]

00:18:02   I was feeling in that moment like this [TS]

00:18:04   is what adults do they state they go to [TS]

00:18:06   bars and they drink like terrible [TS]

00:18:09   potions and I'm talking to a priest like [TS]

00:18:13   a real priest not it is not a junior [TS]

00:18:15   priest he's not he's not a minister [TS]

00:18:18   he's a priest like he's a priest who [TS]

00:18:20   goes all the way back to st. Peter and [TS]

00:18:23   this is what he wants to talk about and [TS]

00:18:26   so here so I'm a math test of a grown-up [TS]

00:18:30   conversation [TS]

00:18:31   yeah right like I guess this is I mean [TS]

00:18:33   at the time I had no way of knowing like [TS]

00:18:35   maybe this is what all my adult [TS]

00:18:36   conversations are going to be like I'm [TS]

00:18:38   going to be drinking beer mixed with [TS]

00:18:39   something in a bar shaped like an animal [TS]

00:18:43   it doesn't know the animal we don't know [TS]

00:18:45   yet if we do all we know is it will be [TS]

00:18:47   some kind of a spiritual clergy person [TS]

00:18:49   we don't know what it could be done [TS]

00:18:51   right it could be in a pig bar somewhere [TS]

00:18:53   to be grabbing can find a big-block the [TS]

00:18:55   great lords day something big bar [TS]

00:18:58   there's a sense that outside the doors [TS]

00:19:00   of the bar there like very quickly like [TS]

00:19:03   right across the parking lot and that [TS]

00:19:05   it's a dirt parking lot right so even [TS]

00:19:07   the parking lot feels little wild but [TS]

00:19:08   right across the parking lot you're in [TS]

00:19:10   the you're in the wilderness of northern [TS]

00:19:12   Idaho and you are surrounded by clansmen [TS]

00:19:14   or worse skinheads and and what do you [TS]

00:19:20   talk about what is there to talk about [TS]

00:19:21   like if he had said how many times do [TS]

00:19:23   you come a day I could have been like [TS]

00:19:27   this is what were this is what we're [TS]

00:19:28   talking about i guess i'm new here [TS]

00:19:30   exactly like 19 19 years old and ready [TS]

00:19:34   to you know I could go to Vietnam right [TS]

00:19:35   now if it was 20 years ago but a lot [TS]

00:19:39   easier now [TS]

00:19:40   but but instead i'm learning about what [TS]

00:19:43   it is to be a man here if you can learn [TS]

00:19:46   how to be a man it might as well be from [TS]

00:19:47   a priest and a fish bar in Idaho [TS]

00:19:49   so why the fuck would that turn into a [TS]

00:19:52   marble and go in my bag [TS]

00:19:54   ok so I'm going to decide this is [TS]

00:19:55   another one of those i won't say it's an [TS]

00:19:57   old person thing i'll say a funny thing [TS]

00:19:58   about young people here there's a thread [TS]

00:20:00   here when you're young you don't think [TS]

00:20:01   about your poop when you're young you [TS]

00:20:02   don't think about your memories you [TS]

00:20:03   don't have any reason to because [TS]

00:20:04   everything is running as far as you know [TS]

00:20:05   running like a top so I mean even like [TS]

00:20:07   psychology classes i would hear about [TS]

00:20:09   things like how memories actually work [TS]

00:20:12   which seemed completely foreign because [TS]

00:20:13   my memories were great i know exactly [TS]

00:20:15   what are you here think about things [TS]

00:20:16   like cognitive biases and go home oh [TS]

00:20:18   that's very interesting for people who [TS]

00:20:19   aren't as smart as me and now like today [TS]

00:20:21   I kits one thing to like realize you [TS]

00:20:23   don't remember things you don't remember [TS]

00:20:25   things is another thing to remember you [TS]

00:20:27   don't remember them as well as you [TS]

00:20:28   thought but i'll tell you what fucks me [TS]

00:20:30   up hard is when I think it's exactly [TS]

00:20:32   what you're saying which is that tape [TS]

00:20:34   that old VHS tape of that memory every [TS]

00:20:36   time you play it degrades a little bit [TS]

00:20:38   yeah every time you tell that story it [TS]

00:20:40   gets further even if it's not a tall [TS]

00:20:41   tale [TS]

00:20:42   it's still kind of make exaggerated [TS]

00:20:44   might get slightly but each time you're [TS]

00:20:45   hearing that as well as saying it and [TS]

00:20:47   that's I think hurting some of the [TS]

00:20:49   fidelity of the original memory if it [TS]

00:20:50   was ever there at all because it gets me [TS]

00:20:52   is like when I find out I remember [TS]

00:20:54   something wrong when I have something [TS]

00:20:56   that I consider like a hard little [TS]

00:20:57   marble and then I've been telling this [TS]

00:20:59   story for years and somebody goes that's [TS]

00:21:00   not how that went and I feel I'm so [TS]

00:21:03   chasing is to tell this one of my go-to [TS]

00:21:07   stories and interviews for a long time [TS]

00:21:09   we've seen how to get into max let's say [TS]

00:21:12   this the same story over and over which [TS]

00:21:14   is that I had dated this wonderful woman [TS]

00:21:16   when i started my freshman year she had [TS]

00:21:18   a magnavox word processor i wrote all my [TS]

00:21:21   papers on it and when she broke up with [TS]

00:21:23   me I had to learn to you know type on [TS]

00:21:26   something else and i ended up going to [TS]

00:21:27   the maclab and every little bit of that [TS]

00:21:29   is true i think except for one important [TS]

00:21:32   detail i went to lunch with her one day [TS]

00:21:33   after she had heard this anecdote and [TS]

00:21:35   she said you know you broke up with me [TS]

00:21:37   up and all i need to do was hear her say [TS]

00:21:41   those words and I went oh my god you're [TS]

00:21:45   right i broke up with you it's a [TS]

00:21:48   different story [TS]

00:21:49   I guess it's not the crucial to the [TS]

00:21:51   story but how much else did I get wrong [TS]

00:21:53   only [TS]

00:21:53   god that's a real tentpole of the story [TS]

00:21:55   what an asshole I I had a wonderful love [TS]

00:21:59   wonderful girlfriend from New England [TS]

00:22:00   with a magnavox and broke up with her [TS]

00:22:03   oh you jerk I felt like such a dick and [TS]

00:22:05   it's exactly the kind of just saying [TS]

00:22:07   exactly the kind of thing now that makes [TS]

00:22:08   me doubt myself because I am one of [TS]

00:22:10   those people who says i don't remember [TS]

00:22:11   things i thought i remembered that but [TS]

00:22:13   like I wonder how much other stuff I [TS]

00:22:14   just get like dead wrong [TS]

00:22:16   remember the context wrong or I didn't [TS]

00:22:18   take a step back and think about all the [TS]

00:22:19   facts and evidence [TS]

00:22:20   well I feel like when I when I learn [TS]

00:22:23   that a story that I've told a lot of [TS]

00:22:25   many times has a factual error it's [TS]

00:22:28   usually exactly the thing we're talking [TS]

00:22:30   about which is that I say you know the [TS]

00:22:33   second time I went to see The Grateful [TS]

00:22:35   Dead I met up with my bro in his focus [TS]

00:22:39   wagon bug and we smoked pot the whole [TS]

00:22:43   way over from Spokane and Santana was [TS]

00:22:46   the opener and that was the night that I [TS]

00:22:49   got thrown out of the the tacoma dome [TS]

00:22:52   because I had a bottle of peach schnapps [TS]

00:22:55   and a guy found me in through the app [TS]

00:22:57   that's a good story [TS]

00:22:58   it's an amazing story and you're like [TS]

00:22:59   it's just peach schnapps give me a break [TS]

00:23:02   it said he said he said to the guy take [TS]

00:23:04   away the shots that let me stay right [TS]

00:23:05   yeah i think this story is a good story [TS]

00:23:07   yeah except that the peach schnapps [TS]

00:23:10   Torre was actually ZZ Top at the tacoma [TS]

00:23:12   dome and everything else was a was true [TS]

00:23:18   about the second time I saw the Grateful [TS]

00:23:20   Dead and the the conflation of the two [TS]

00:23:23   things and and what what ends up being [TS]

00:23:26   like like what would what ends up being [TS]

00:23:29   just sort of the window dressing on the [TS]

00:23:31   story because i feel like the reason the [TS]

00:23:33   peach schnapps story or the or the fish [TS]

00:23:36   bar story like the reason that that that [TS]

00:23:38   turns into a marble and you walk away [TS]

00:23:39   with it is that I've been trying to fit [TS]

00:23:43   that marble into the right slot [TS]

00:23:48   for the for the intervening 25 years [TS]

00:23:51   right I pull that marble out sometimes [TS]

00:23:53   and I go [TS]

00:23:54   is this where this story belongs did I [TS]

00:23:57   learned that because it applies here and [TS]

00:24:00   I and I push it into a to contemporary [TS]

00:24:03   context like the peach schnapps story at [TS]

00:24:07   ZZ top fits here and I and I try it out [TS]

00:24:11   and that that because i'm looking for a [TS]

00:24:14   place where that is a metaphor for this [TS]

00:24:16   I'm trying to I'm trying to interpret a [TS]

00:24:20   new experience and I know I've been [TS]

00:24:22   carrying around this bag of marbles for [TS]

00:24:25   a reason and I go is that I I reach in [TS]

00:24:28   and I'm like does this story finally [TS]

00:24:30   makes sense in the context of this new [TS]

00:24:33   information who and in most cases you [TS]

00:24:36   know you've tried to fit in there and [TS]

00:24:37   you're like huh [TS]

00:24:38   kinda but every once in a while you get [TS]

00:24:41   one of those where you just stick the [TS]

00:24:43   thing in there and it just locks and [TS]

00:24:45   you're like holy shit [TS]

00:24:46   the story is completed like there's a [TS]

00:24:49   lot of incentive for you to crack that [TS]

00:24:51   Marvel in half and make sure it's what [TS]

00:24:52   you thought it was right so so but but [TS]

00:24:57   the question of like was it the was a [TS]

00:24:59   grateful better ZZ top like that that [TS]

00:25:02   stuff is this is the Shocker where it's [TS]

00:25:06   like I've been telling the story wrong [TS]

00:25:07   the whole time not awful but but [TS]

00:25:10   ultimately that doesn't matter unless [TS]

00:25:12   you're trying to I mean that isn't that [TS]

00:25:14   the reason you you made that into a [TS]

00:25:16   story to carry with you unless you're [TS]

00:25:20   sitting around in a group of people in [TS]

00:25:22   and everybody's telling Grateful Dead [TS]

00:25:23   stories and I think usually that's where [TS]

00:25:26   it comes out you start to tell you're [TS]

00:25:27   grateful that story like holy shit when [TS]

00:25:29   i get better the Grateful Dead story [TS]

00:25:31   yeah it's better as a grateful that [TS]

00:25:32   story but the thing is I don't think you [TS]

00:25:33   get kicked out of a grateful dead [TS]

00:25:34   concert for having peach schnapps don't [TS]

00:25:36   think you get kicked out from making [TS]

00:25:37   peach peach now haha I feel like they're [TS]

00:25:41   the security guards at the tacoma dome [TS]

00:25:43   at a Grateful Dead and Santana show have [TS]

00:25:46   bigger fish to fry [TS]

00:25:47   yeah whereas at the ZZ Top show for [TS]

00:25:49   whatever reason come on they're just [TS]

00:25:51   they're looking for southern comfort and [TS]

00:25:52   they found peach schnapps in this [TS]

00:25:54   instance and like good enough you're out [TS]

00:25:56   on the street [TS]

00:25:57   oh also mad still [TS]

00:26:00   does the terrible feeling you know I [TS]

00:26:02   don't change topic but i heard a song [TS]

00:26:06   and I really liked it was it the Grange [TS]

00:26:11   now I heard a song and I felt this [TS]

00:26:17   little twinge on the back of my neck and [TS]

00:26:19   I thought my first of all I mean thought [TS]

00:26:21   was this song is really really good [TS]

00:26:23   have you heard it before or her naked [TS]

00:26:25   body might have her I knew I thought it [TS]

00:26:26   was pretty sure I'd heard it before but [TS]

00:26:28   I was fighting myself because there was [TS]

00:26:30   a very strong feeling I was getting that [TS]

00:26:33   it was almost certainly a grateful dead [TS]

00:26:35   song and I started feeling really bad [TS]

00:26:37   about it cuz my marble does not fit in [TS]

00:26:39   that slot huh [TS]

00:26:40   and I took out my phone and I hit the [TS]

00:26:42   shazam Oh box of rain from american [TS]

00:26:45   beauty see what a nice song over my what [TS]

00:26:47   what an excellent album i heard that and [TS]

00:26:52   I was like god dammit this fucks with my [TS]

00:26:55   marble set because you know I sit and [TS]

00:26:57   listen to that and thinking like this [TS]

00:26:58   could be something that REM put out in [TS]

00:27:01   1986 you or you know or 4586 like it's [TS]

00:27:05   really really great and it's not [TS]

00:27:07   extraneous and it's not full of bullshit [TS]

00:27:09   is let's kick with the Grateful Dead [TS]

00:27:11   it's very manicured and well edited and [TS]

00:27:15   i just made me angry but it's a really [TS]

00:27:17   good song [TS]

00:27:18   american beauty is full of really [TS]

00:27:21   excellent songwriter and at that moment [TS]

00:27:24   in history like they were [TS]

00:27:27   contemporaneous with the band and crosby [TS]

00:27:29   Stills and Nash and all part of the same [TS]

00:27:32   school as those guys and they were all [TS]

00:27:35   like collaborating on records with one [TS]

00:27:37   another i mean they were they were they [TS]

00:27:40   that was a that was there pop record and [TS]

00:27:43   it it's a fantastic album and yeah he's [TS]

00:27:46   a really good pedal steel player right I [TS]

00:27:49   definitely plan to teach your children [TS]

00:27:51   well and stuff like that who Jerry yeah [TS]

00:27:54   place the pedal steel as i'm thinking of [TS]

00:27:57   right yeah I'm pretty sure i'll check it [TS]

00:27:58   out [TS]

00:27:59   I didn't know yeah I think he's a pretty [TS]

00:28:01   accomplished guy and there was some kind [TS]

00:28:02   of thing with the recording of that [TS]

00:28:03   album and maybe the one before it were [TS]

00:28:05   something happened he ended up having to [TS]

00:28:07   play more pedal steel and I think he's [TS]

00:28:10   pretty good at it [TS]

00:28:11   what wouldn't surprise me I mean they're [TS]

00:28:13   all really good [TS]

00:28:15   they're all really really good musicians [TS]

00:28:16   because this fish except maybe Bob Weir [TS]

00:28:19   put out but no I mean that the that the [TS]

00:28:23   Grateful Dead hate uh it's [TS]

00:28:28   understandable you know what [TS]

00:28:31   yeah yeah like there's a lot of out of [TS]

00:28:34   tune singing and there's a lot of I mean [TS]

00:28:38   there are a lot of those live recordings [TS]

00:28:40   there so they're so messed up on drugs [TS]

00:28:42   that it that it's just like no it's not [TS]

00:28:45   good but uh well I've got four years i [TS]

00:28:49   have filed that I used to be kind of you [TS]

00:28:51   know because you know going to hippie [TS]

00:28:52   school you end up hearing some Grateful [TS]

00:28:54   Dead but you hear about the Grateful [TS]

00:28:56   Dead a lot and it's another one of those [TS]

00:28:58   things where you're like it's like [TS]

00:29:00   people who are into tool you're just [TS]

00:29:01   like oh I don't and I couldn't even name [TS]

00:29:03   a tool song but like the people who are [TS]

00:29:05   really into to lure the people who are [TS]

00:29:07   too scared to quote Sloan who you love [TS]

00:29:09   the people who are really into [TS]

00:29:10   consolidated you just like god you're so [TS]

00:29:12   annoying [TS]

00:29:13   yeah and now I think that's what it was [TS]

00:29:15   and then as I grew as a person John i [TS]

00:29:17   found it more under my more grown-up [TS]

00:29:19   thing from probably about maybe Merlin [TS]

00:29:22   revision 12 was like this is just not [TS]

00:29:25   for me [TS]

00:29:26   yeah and that was a perfectly fine [TS]

00:29:27   marble in a very sensible grown-ups lot [TS]

00:29:29   but now i don't know i might have to go [TS]

00:29:31   back I might have to check my memories I [TS]

00:29:34   feel like the the key the key elements [TS]

00:29:35   to be conscious of it in the Grateful [TS]

00:29:37   Dead or that that they really pioneered [TS]

00:29:43   the loud clean guitar tone who um which [TS]

00:29:48   as Davis on pointed out the other day [TS]

00:29:50   you here again in the Cure write the [TS]

00:29:55   check the clean-out loud guitar that's [TS]

00:29:59   not trying to be attending retrospect [TS]

00:30:03   unprocessed because we are processed [TS]

00:30:06   right listen to something like an echo [TS]

00:30:07   and the bunnymen or something like you [TS]

00:30:08   know there will be a lot of you know [TS]

00:30:10   shaping of the sound right but that [TS]

00:30:12   you're right that's a really good points [TS]

00:30:14   in has a great guitar tone it's great [TS]

00:30:16   and and he's you know he's using like [TS]

00:30:19   the chorusing effects that we started to [TS]

00:30:21   hear later on clean guitar [TS]

00:30:23   you know Jerry Garcia was doing all this [TS]

00:30:26   like in and out of phase stuff with it [TS]

00:30:29   you know he had one of those guitars [TS]

00:30:30   that had 11 different switches on earth [TS]

00:30:31   and its all all the switches are like [TS]

00:30:34   this pickups in phase now this pickups [TS]

00:30:36   out of phase and and it creates a kind [TS]

00:30:38   of chorusing or you know like filtering [TS]

00:30:43   effect on the tone but really always [TS]

00:30:45   very clean tone so there's that and then [TS]

00:30:50   for me the other thing is phil lesh the [TS]

00:30:52   bass player never plays the same no [TS]

00:30:55   twice his bass lines are these like [TS]

00:30:58   weaving bobbing up and down like courses [TS]

00:31:06   of notes that if you just kind of zoom [TS]

00:31:09   in on them their miraculous for because [TS]

00:31:13   they're there you know whatever phil [TS]

00:31:15   however feel less here's the patterns of [TS]

00:31:17   music it's like it's a dimension closer [TS]

00:31:23   to jazz or for you no further from the [TS]

00:31:26   surface of the earth and then where I [TS]

00:31:27   live and so hit the bass lines are like [TS]

00:31:30   really all over the place and kind of [TS]

00:31:33   extraordinary musical just musical [TS]

00:31:37   pieces on their own and then you know of [TS]

00:31:39   course every every once in a while babe [TS]

00:31:41   they would write a killer to ever so you [TS]

00:31:46   know I'm gonna get I'm gonna give [TS]

00:31:47   another chance that this thing is very [TS]

00:31:49   appealing to me because somebody who I i [TS]

00:31:52   guess i have a feeling that a lot of [TS]

00:31:55   bass players started guitar players and [TS]

00:31:58   you can kind of tell who those people [TS]

00:32:00   are [TS]

00:32:00   don't you think you're saying like [TS]

00:32:03   somebody who takes the base for what it [TS]

00:32:05   needs to be I mean like John Entwistle [TS]

00:32:06   he might have started on guitar who [TS]

00:32:08   knows but man he plays that like nobody [TS]

00:32:10   else he plays the bass in a way that [TS]

00:32:12   only a base could be played [TS]

00:32:13   whereas I'm more like Lou Barlow like [TS]

00:32:15   like I'm out there going you know Gigi [TS]

00:32:17   dcccd but did you know that I mean by [TS]

00:32:21   the difference [TS]

00:32:22   yeah well good thing about Entwistle is [TS]

00:32:24   he he he looks so calm and implacable [TS]

00:32:27   but in his bass playing there's all this [TS]

00:32:31   like ferociousness fire and fury just [TS]

00:32:35   pure pure [TS]

00:32:36   fury and Phil lashes again like another [TS]

00:32:41   step out onto the grass from where [TS]

00:32:46   there's not a lot of fury in phillips [TS]

00:32:48   but it's not it's not just dumb called [TS]

00:32:51   noodling either he is you know he is [TS]

00:32:55   chasing a unicorn across a lake and and [TS]

00:33:01   I don't know what I don't know what it [TS]

00:33:03   means [TS]

00:33:03   at the time you know I really don't with [TS]

00:33:06   whistle I know what I feel like I know [TS]

00:33:08   what it means [TS]

00:33:09   because it connects with me so deeply [TS]

00:33:12   you soo min if you listen to the WHO and [TS]

00:33:15   you just zoom in on the base like you [TS]

00:33:17   will just have a tremendous experience [TS]

00:33:20   at that that for me is like very [TS]

00:33:23   emotional and very like I yes and with [TS]

00:33:27   with and i think phil lesh you know that [TS]

00:33:29   what we think of as like the noodling of [TS]

00:33:32   jam bands the in comprehensible noodling [TS]

00:33:38   of jam bands me a little up with a lot [TS]

00:33:42   of that kind of jazz infections like if [TS]

00:33:44   you don't get that stuff right it's it's [TS]

00:33:46   a pretty rough road but with interest [TS]

00:33:47   leaving when he does something like can [TS]

00:33:49   express this like a little pentatonic [TS]

00:33:51   Phil like a little doodoo kind of like [TS]

00:33:55   little thing sounds of buildings falling [TS]

00:33:57   down like the simplest little like this [TS]

00:34:02   is the end of this part of the verse [TS]

00:34:03   that he'll head is just like then I'm [TS]

00:34:08   really embarrassed to say this but just [TS]

00:34:11   three days ago I was watching are not [TS]

00:34:14   watching I'm sorry i was listening to [TS]

00:34:15   soloed delhi-based parts on youtube you [TS]

00:34:19   do not want to set me on the path of [TS]

00:34:22   isolated tracks on youtube a bit much i [TS]

00:34:25   have done it I've got quite a bit the [TS]

00:34:27   problem is that what I want to start [TS]

00:34:29   going down there I'm just like stop it [TS]

00:34:30   stop it stop it get out get out you just [TS]

00:34:33   listen to three-and-a-half long minute [TS]

00:34:35   you just listen to YYZ still with the [TS]

00:34:39   bass solo when you listen to the kid [TS]

00:34:41   that's that's indefensible [TS]

00:34:43   yeah you are making a marble that you [TS]

00:34:46   are not going to find a slot for your [TS]

00:34:48   not going to fit this in anywhere [TS]

00:34:49   this is not useful but it's but it's [TS]

00:34:53   thrilling you know I dive but when the [TS]

00:34:56   reasoning the reason i got me there was [TS]

00:34:57   i was listening to soloed helmet drum [TS]

00:35:00   tracks that was the bells my entry point [TS]

00:35:03   understand how to write that down that's [TS]

00:35:05   good [TS]

00:35:05   something if you've ever loses that you [TS]

00:35:07   can't see them recently I saw helmet [TS]

00:35:09   within within a couple of years whatever [TS]

00:35:11   their last ya back together and you know [TS]

00:35:14   it was phenomenal but listening to the [TS]

00:35:17   drum tracks of helmet soloed you know [TS]

00:35:21   like the first thing that you notice is [TS]

00:35:23   while that snare is really tuned up like [TS]

00:35:26   it as a tight snare and a ringing tight [TS]

00:35:29   ringing snare but then use the zoom [TS]

00:35:32   because because the thing is for most of [TS]

00:35:34   the tune it's just kick and snare he's [TS]

00:35:36   not you know it's like nabil used to say [TS]

00:35:39   when we would do sound check and he [TS]

00:35:40   would you know they think i would have [TS]

00:35:42   him hit the Tom 15 times for entering [TS]

00:35:45   soundcheck and then people would say [TS]

00:35:46   well lets you know that like four times [TS]

00:35:49   more times than I hit the time in my [TS]

00:35:51   entire set but like I just stated 15 [TS]

00:35:54   times i hit four times during our set [TS]

00:35:56   but uh but listening to the kick and [TS]

00:35:59   snare of of these helmet from you know [TS]

00:36:03   isolated tracks the kick drum is just so [TS]

00:36:07   dead-on so relentless and so like you [TS]

00:36:12   don't think of that you don't think of [TS]

00:36:13   that music is having any swing because [TS]

00:36:15   it doesn't but the put the pocket of it [TS]

00:36:17   is just extraordinary [TS]

00:36:20   so fuck i will listen to soloed [TS]

00:36:23   musicians forever in a day and it's just [TS]

00:36:27   not just not a lot it's not how the I I [TS]

00:36:30   really feel like I've reached some kind [TS]

00:36:32   of a nadir of both music dorkiness and [TS]

00:36:36   we're just really every kind of darkness [TS]

00:36:37   when I'm sitting there and like my one [TS]

00:36:39   of my go-to news is dave grohl on queens [TS]

00:36:41   of the stone ages and no one knows [TS]

00:36:44   uh-huh you know the song out do I that's [TS]

00:36:47   a hell did you do to this fills are from [TS]

00:36:51   another planet but then so you're [TS]

00:36:52   sitting there you turn it on and there's [TS]

00:36:54   a lot quiet for a while and it's just [TS]

00:36:55   don't [TS]

00:36:56   don't jump together and it's better the [TS]

00:36:59   vast apart i remember i like for phils [TS]

00:37:02   but because there's no there's no [TS]

00:37:04   guitars right so all year there's four [TS]

00:37:06   films and I'm looking for but to get [TS]

00:37:08   there I listen to like three minutes of [TS]

00:37:10   some really good don't cha [TS]

00:37:15   well yeah basically my Sharona ah right [TS]

00:37:19   at all and all and I'm like that man [TS]

00:37:23   oh and as a monster it's depressing [TS]

00:37:26   it's depressing but you know this is a [TS]

00:37:27   nice way to spend an evening i mean it's [TS]

00:37:29   it's better than listening to noam [TS]

00:37:30   chomsky lectures I guess I don't know [TS]

00:37:32   oh you said a mouthful thanks for [TS]

00:37:35   listening isolated in a ski we just here [TS]

00:37:38   it's just isolated noam chomsky mouth [TS]

00:37:40   sounds and breath sounds [TS]

00:37:42   we could all the word i just kept in the [TS]

00:37:44   smacking noises that queens of the stone [TS]

00:37:47   age record i have to say is like still a [TS]

00:37:52   real it's still a real influence on me [TS]

00:37:58   and I admit it I can't square that with [TS]

00:38:00   any of the music that I make no yeah but [TS]

00:38:05   but the sound the tone the feel of it [TS]

00:38:08   the the attitude of it it doesn't fit [TS]

00:38:13   part of it is like I'm always really [TS]

00:38:15   into music not always into i find myself [TS]

00:38:17   when I think about the music that I like [TS]

00:38:19   it sometimes it's it stands across two [TS]

00:38:22   or three Chandra's you can very easily [TS]

00:38:24   put that into a couple different genres [TS]

00:38:26   yeah but still it's it really is its own [TS]

00:38:28   thing and but its its its aggressive [TS]

00:38:32   without being like angrily stupid if [TS]

00:38:35   there's something there's always a [TS]

00:38:36   little bit of restraint to it not a [TS]

00:38:38   menace and considered it identity and [TS]

00:38:42   that's all go with the flow [TS]

00:38:44   who's it had it had such a impact on me [TS]

00:38:48   and you know go with the flow is [TS]

00:38:50   obviously like surfer philosophy and [TS]

00:38:54   stone and you know that they are like [TS]

00:38:56   famously a stoner band so but but [TS]

00:38:59   there's also like something ironic in [TS]

00:39:02   the delivery of go with the flow like [TS]

00:39:04   her or with the background of the music [TS]

00:39:07   it feels like a pretty aggressive take [TS]

00:39:10   on that on that like goat the flow [TS]

00:39:12   philosophy [TS]

00:39:13   yeah but in trying to try to take that [TS]

00:39:16   song apart and see what it's made of [TS]

00:39:20   I realized that like like a lot of great [TS]

00:39:22   songs there's nothing to it you know [TS]

00:39:25   it's two quarts basically it's it's that [TS]

00:39:27   the impact of the tune is 100-percent [TS]

00:39:30   production and attitude right there's [TS]

00:39:34   nothing complicated about it there's [TS]

00:39:35   nothing it's just it's just sound and I [TS]

00:39:40   guess that's the thing as a songwriter [TS]

00:39:42   that I've always like I always aspired [TS]

00:39:46   as a songwriter to write songs that were [TS]

00:39:50   not dependent on sound that the song [TS]

00:39:53   itself was elegantly built that's a [TS]

00:39:57   pretty classic is a classic all but [TS]

00:40:00   that's kind of the classic idea of a [TS]

00:40:01   great songs you could play it just on a [TS]

00:40:03   piano you can play it on guitar by [TS]

00:40:05   yourself right right and he doesn't need [TS]

00:40:08   strings to be on like bittersweet [TS]

00:40:10   symphony like that i'm not sure how well [TS]

00:40:12   that will come across on the ukulele [TS]

00:40:13   yeah it wouldn't write but but solitary [TS]

00:40:17   man can be covered by x 700 different [TS]

00:40:20   artists and the and the greatness of the [TS]

00:40:22   song shines through [TS]

00:40:24   yeah I don't think another band could [TS]

00:40:26   cover go with the flow and make any dent [TS]

00:40:30   in it or you know that or any [TS]

00:40:32   improvement [TS]

00:40:33   it's always just going to be about the [TS]

00:40:36   album version is always going to be the [TS]

00:40:38   best because it's a it's a it's like a [TS]

00:40:42   sound creation and in it in a way that's [TS]

00:40:45   different from like the cure which all [TS]

00:40:48   those records are sonic creations [TS]

00:40:52   yeah but like you could cover a cure [TS]

00:40:54   song and do it do it [TS]

00:40:57   cool interpretation of it and make it [TS]

00:40:58   into something different but you [TS]

00:41:01   couldn't cover my bloody valentine [TS]

00:41:03   exactly [TS]

00:41:04   and so I exactly what I was just [TS]

00:41:06   thinking we're Queens of the Stone Age [TS]

00:41:08   go you know how they managed to be in [TS]

00:41:11   that my bloody valentine category [TS]

00:41:13   although the songs have hooks and [TS]

00:41:15   they're there pop but it's really like [TS]

00:41:18   it's a it's a cake of sound and you take [TS]

00:41:22   any one element and try and zoom in on [TS]

00:41:24   it and say like this is the guitar part [TS]

00:41:26   it's like it's two chords it's just two [TS]

00:41:28   cords through a distortion boxes nothing [TS]

00:41:29   nothing so that so as I as I evolve as I [TS]

00:41:35   progress like my interest in the last [TS]

00:41:37   five years has been about trying to make [TS]

00:41:40   these sonic tapestries but i don't but [TS]

00:41:45   that isn't my tradition and that's not [TS]

00:41:47   what I know best [TS]

00:41:49   so in a way that's why I'm so why have [TS]

00:41:52   been so unproductive like I want to make [TS]

00:41:56   a record that sounds like loveless and [TS]

00:41:59   have for years but instead he yeah right [TS]

00:42:05   haha ah isn't that the story about like [TS]

00:42:10   how he like nearly bankrupted Creation [TS]

00:42:13   Records with the the creation of that [TS]

00:42:15   record that said that supposedly the [TS]

00:42:17   story anyway [TS]

00:42:17   yeah and and in a way I feel like the [TS]

00:42:20   recording of it actually was the actual [TS]

00:42:22   like stuff that happened in the [TS]

00:42:26   recording was pretty simple it's just [TS]

00:42:28   like loud guitar mic in front of the am [TS]

00:42:30   but when I hear stories about how [TS]

00:42:33   Lovelace was recorded where he he [TS]

00:42:36   created like a tent out of blankets and [TS]

00:42:39   would poke his head out and you know say [TS]

00:42:42   to the engineer like just keep recording [TS]

00:42:45   don't ever talk to me through the [TS]

00:42:46   talkback mic and then he would you know [TS]

00:42:49   going under the black or whatever and [TS]

00:42:51   look under there for four hours and the [TS]

00:42:54   the engineers just like you know in half [TS]

00:42:56   of that time it's just the sound of him [TS]

00:42:57   doing um would be great i don't remember [TS]

00:43:00   the guys name would be great to be me [TS]

00:43:02   like incredibly stressed out label owner [TS]

00:43:04   and you got to just kind of stick your [TS]

00:43:06   head in to see how the historical [TS]

00:43:07   there's a blanket any difficulty he's [TS]

00:43:10   been doing every 90 this is it [TS]

00:43:12   sorry man he's just under there and I [TS]

00:43:14   feel like the lira by my understanding [TS]

00:43:16   of the record [TS]

00:43:17   Lovelace was that though that the vocals [TS]

00:43:19   were recorded maybe extemporaneously a [TS]

00:43:27   lot of the time and they just would go [TS]

00:43:28   under the blankets and like make mouth [TS]

00:43:33   sounds and keep the tape rolling and [TS]

00:43:37   they made mouth sounds until those mouth [TS]

00:43:39   sounds turned into word sounds and then [TS]

00:43:42   they did it until they had a until they [TS]

00:43:45   had to take food and it's not like I [TS]

00:43:49   don't know I've never seen tell you all [TS]

00:43:51   my cocktail twins parodies but I i feel [TS]

00:43:55   like you know I actually have a fourth [TS]

00:43:57   long winters record that is all that has [TS]

00:43:59   vocals on 13 songs that are all mouth [TS]

00:44:03   sounds brand Devonshire get us in [TS]

00:44:06   trouble a mi know ya level is pretty [TS]

00:44:10   sure my father had to do it on the [TS]

00:44:14   sweater ice cream sundae kg always [TS]

00:44:18   entertained on what I'm afraid of is [TS]

00:44:22   that I'm gonna die in a plane crash good [TS]

00:44:24   at something [TS]

00:44:25   somebody's gonna be like let's go on his [TS]

00:44:27   computer and find all the unreleased [TS]

00:44:29   long yeah I know like like they have a [TS]

00:44:31   cop son like the estate this is the cash [TS]

00:44:35   in it just takes all that was always [TS]

00:44:36   looks like John was almost done with [TS]

00:44:37   this exhibitor should I don't even know [TS]

00:44:41   hanging chung Tang or like even worse [TS]

00:44:47   hand those things off to my friends like [TS]

00:44:49   hey would you guys like to finish this [TS]

00:44:50   song the job was working on [TS]

00:44:52   oh ok let my soul Mike Squires revenge [TS]

00:44:56   yeah exactly handed off to to like a a [TS]

00:45:00   cross-section of the American Romans god [TS]

00:45:02   what a nightmare John would think that [TS]

00:45:04   all of the disgruntled ex long winters [TS]

00:45:06   people together to report that are more [TS]

00:45:08   every every singer in the country that [TS]

00:45:10   has some like vague grudge but it was [TS]

00:45:13   never fully articulated that's gonna [TS]

00:45:15   take some work [TS]

00:45:16   oh yeah let's say I decided to get [TS]

00:45:17   microsoft itself let's uh let's solo the [TS]

00:45:20   vocals on this track see what he was [TS]

00:45:22   really going for it [TS]

00:45:24   what I don't not going to add anything [TS]

00:45:25   to that vocal tract I think it's perfect [TS]

00:45:27   as it is I saw colin Meloy in a bauble [TS]

00:45:30   video [TS]

00:45:30   yeah let's leave that well yeah that [TS]

00:45:33   video was directed by alicia roze who is [TS]

00:45:37   a suspect funny video friend and she was [TS]

00:45:40   the original sort of stylist and [TS]

00:45:44   photographer of the decemberists [TS]

00:45:47   everything all those photographs that [TS]

00:45:50   you see of them you know like holding [TS]

00:45:52   red flags on top of a castle mount [TS]

00:45:55   looking like diluted minors on a break [TS]

00:45:57   yeah I don't little a big part of that [TS]

00:46:01   big part of that look that to find them [TS]

00:46:04   early on was that all the pictures were [TS]

00:46:06   taken by Alicia [TS]

00:46:07   so she's a Portland she's Portland ridge [TS]

00:46:11   yeah and apparently she has like naked [TS]

00:46:15   hot tub parties to is that right i keep [TS]

00:46:18   getting invited down to like hey if you [TS]

00:46:21   need a place to crash [TS]

00:46:22   like I don't know really terrible for [TS]

00:46:24   you to misunderstand that invitation [TS]

00:46:26   you know like that can really then again [TS]

00:46:28   this could be a memory thing with you [TS]

00:46:29   maybe you heard that wrong forgive my [TS]

00:46:31   saying but like what you know what if [TS]

00:46:32   you got that a little bit wrong and just [TS]

00:46:34   showed up with the wrong stuff [TS]

00:46:35   well back in the old days i was i was [TS]

00:46:38   looking through some photographs the [TS]

00:46:39   other day and i see i found all these [TS]

00:46:41   pictures of me in the very early [TS]

00:46:43   nineties in my when I was in my modern [TS]

00:46:47   primitive culture i was still I'm still [TS]

00:46:52   pretty much like I am now but for [TS]

00:46:55   whatever reason i have found myself in a [TS]

00:46:58   modern primitive circle for for a large [TS]

00:47:04   portion of my of my social like calendar [TS]

00:47:07   and that involved a lot of mud and [TS]

00:47:13   nakedness and industrial music and the [TS]

00:47:21   early days of tattoos in in places other [TS]

00:47:25   than on your forearms and of of a [TS]

00:47:29   graphic elements other than anchors [TS]

00:47:32   and I was always you know a little bit [TS]

00:47:35   outside because I'm always a little bit [TS]

00:47:38   outside of every culture i participate [TS]

00:47:40   in but this group of people really [TS]

00:47:44   didn't brace me and I embraced them for [TS]

00:47:46   a period of a few years we were all very [TS]

00:47:49   close and and covered with mud and part [TS]

00:47:54   of that was that we you know like it you [TS]

00:47:56   could not put intoxicating substances in [TS]

00:47:59   us fast enough but there are a couple of [TS]

00:48:02   i have a couple of photographs of me [TS]

00:48:04   like sitting next to a fire pit with the [TS]

00:48:09   with a like a dreadlocked girl sitting [TS]

00:48:13   in my lap and like a a bald guy with the [TS]

00:48:18   long goatee and like pan boots is [TS]

00:48:23   playing up playing the flute and dancing [TS]

00:48:26   around of a goat carcass like and I look [TS]

00:48:29   at how peaceful years goat and just like [TS]

00:48:32   what the what the fuck was I up to [TS]

00:48:35   I was a long time ago but then i guess i [TS]

00:48:38   guess at the time I was trying to trying [TS]

00:48:42   to figure out what what was next in the [TS]

00:48:44   world there that that seemed that was [TS]

00:48:48   that was the logical extension of what [TS]

00:48:52   hippie values would lead to I guess [TS]

00:48:56   right i mean that seemed like next-gen [TS]

00:48:59   it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't [TS]

00:49:03   friendly anymore it was it was trending [TS]

00:49:06   dark again who and and I felt like I [TS]

00:49:12   felt like I needed to I need to be there [TS]

00:49:15   boots-on-the-ground figure out what that [TS]

00:49:18   figure out what this was all about and [TS]

00:49:19   it's yeah well or like like remember [TS]

00:49:23   logger boots however every I mean lose I [TS]

00:49:26   think back now and I'm like you know [TS]

00:49:27   what logger boots are really expensive i [TS]

00:49:30   didn't have logger boots at the time I [TS]

00:49:33   just had some old boots but like there [TS]

00:49:37   were a lot of people in logger like [TS]

00:49:40   really nice logger boots [TS]

00:49:42   there's always a real high up lots of [TS]

00:49:43   places [TS]

00:49:44   yeah right with all the extra light pole [TS]

00:49:46   climbers with you and I never I didn't [TS]

00:49:49   have any money then so I never will I [TS]

00:49:51   didn't even go to the store to look at [TS]

00:49:53   how much those things cost i just got [TS]

00:49:55   Martin seeming out of my range that's [TS]

00:49:56   how old I am [TS]

00:49:57   they were they were a hundred bucks [TS]

00:49:58   right and I mean you could buy back then [TS]

00:50:01   you could get a pair of chuck taylors [TS]

00:50:02   for fifteen dollars so I so I remember [TS]

00:50:07   what you know kind of waltzing around [TS]

00:50:08   through that culture and definitely [TS]

00:50:11   feeling like everybody's got amazing [TS]

00:50:13   boots and I think the boots that i had [TS]

00:50:17   they passed muster because they were [TS]

00:50:19   just thrashed um they were just old but [TS]

00:50:24   they weren't tall and I think back I [TS]

00:50:27   think now I'm like even then those boots [TS]

00:50:30   were probably two hundred dollars two [TS]

00:50:33   hundred dollars at a time when I was [TS]

00:50:34   making two hundred dollars a month just [TS]

00:50:38   a minivan days I don't you well know i [TS]

00:50:41   was making zero dark zero point zero [TS]

00:50:42   dollars a month then but like even when [TS]

00:50:45   I had a job right i mean i-i all the [TS]

00:50:48   worst thing I was going through a box of [TS]

00:50:49   papers not very long ago and i found up [TS]

00:50:52   uncashed paychecks [TS]

00:50:53   Oh No 1994 for little heart drunk a [TS]

00:50:58   hundred and fifty dollars that was so [TS]

00:51:00   much money it was incredible $350 he did [TS]

00:51:04   it for a reason is oversight fucking [TS]

00:51:07   idea how how that well this is the thing [TS]

00:51:10   how would that have ended up in a [TS]

00:51:12   bombing I definitely have a lot of boxes [TS]

00:51:14   of papers [TS]

00:51:15   I you know I have a stack inside the [TS]

00:51:19   inside the front door [TS]

00:51:20   I have a stack of cigar boxes that now [TS]

00:51:24   are that's that's probably a 5-foot tall [TS]

00:51:28   stack of cigar boxes and there's a cigar [TS]

00:51:30   box for airplane tickets [TS]

00:51:33   there's a cigar box for concert tickets [TS]

00:51:36   there's a cigar box for unused drink [TS]

00:51:39   tickets because everywhere i go i get [TS]

00:51:42   paid and drink tickets and I don't drink [TS]

00:51:43   so i should be able to play your meat [TS]

00:51:46   stick [TS]

00:51:46   rather than have those out to people and [TS]

00:51:48   say like hey everybody i got ten drink [TS]

00:51:50   tickets why don't you go get yourself an [TS]

00:51:51   extra drink instead I greedily keep them [TS]

00:51:55   and I go home and I put you know I [TS]

00:51:57   probably have $50,000 it just lets get [TS]

00:52:00   you mentally calculating what you were [TS]

00:52:02   actually i have i have a separate cigar [TS]

00:52:06   box for like sports game tickets a cigar [TS]

00:52:11   box for old IDs a cigar box for other [TS]

00:52:16   people's ideas that i find you know like [TS]

00:52:19   looking up and down the stack of cigar [TS]

00:52:22   boxes there are a lot of different uh oh [TS]

00:52:26   well I to cigar boxes i have a cigar box [TS]

00:52:28   for backstage passes that are stickers [TS]

00:52:31   and then a separate cigar box for [TS]

00:52:33   backstage passes that our laminate do [TS]

00:52:35   you smoke that much i will also get [TS]

00:52:38   another one is just for cigar box so [TS]

00:52:40   yeah I collect cigar boxes so I'm always [TS]

00:52:42   out looking for specific boxes but so [TS]

00:52:46   somehow in one of these cigar boxes i [TS]

00:52:48   have an uncashed pay stub from the from [TS]

00:52:50   1994 and I'm like I knew enough I knew [TS]

00:52:54   enough somehow to put this in a box but [TS]

00:52:57   not enough to cash it i can't imagine [TS]

00:53:00   it's one of those like a canary a [TS]

00:53:02   butterfly in China situation if i had [TS]

00:53:05   cash that hundred and fifty-five have [TS]

00:53:07   interest on that would be well I don't [TS]

00:53:10   think it's I don't think I think it's an [TS]

00:53:12   email on the compound interest John not [TS]

00:53:14   it's a thing but what I'm saying is if I [TS]

00:53:15   had cashed it then if i had an extra [TS]

00:53:17   hundred and fifty dollars that month in [TS]

00:53:21   1984 would i be where I am today o.o you [TS]

00:53:25   might be way down in the hole right or [TS]

00:53:27   with the decisions I made based on [TS]

00:53:29   having that extra hundred fifty dollars [TS]

00:53:30   set me on a separate phone you probably [TS]

00:53:32   would not have put it into a retirement [TS]

00:53:33   fund [TS]

00:53:34   no but I might have bought a who knows [TS]

00:53:39   and i'm a bottom an ice cream cake I [TS]

00:53:41   might have a single auger bit I might [TS]

00:53:44   have bought yeah put a down payment on a [TS]

00:53:46   pair of logger boots I mean you know [TS]

00:53:48   what the I got fired one time and I was [TS]

00:53:52   sitting in a cafe the next day like kind [TS]

00:53:55   of bemoaning having been fired and my [TS]

00:53:57   good friend Chris camellia who you know [TS]

00:53:59   came in sat down he was like you know so [TS]

00:54:03   you got fired and I was like yep [TS]

00:54:05   and he said how much money do you have [TS]

00:54:07   in the bank and i said well i have [TS]

00:54:11   actually been saving for the last year i [TS]

00:54:13   got 800 bucks in the bank and he was [TS]

00:54:17   like what are you gonna do with the 800 [TS]

00:54:18   bucks and i said i don't know probably [TS]

00:54:22   drink for a couple of months he was like [TS]

00:54:25   you're going to take that a hundred [TS]

00:54:26   bucks and you're just gonna you're just [TS]

00:54:27   going to sit around not work and just [TS]

00:54:29   just drink and I was like can you think [TS]

00:54:33   of something better like yes I'm really [TS]

00:54:36   looking forward to this summer we really [TS]

00:54:37   opens up your schedule and he said let's [TS]

00:54:40   go right now and buy you a guitar and I [TS]

00:54:45   was like what it was like for 800 bucks [TS]

00:54:48   you can get a killer guitar and you are [TS]

00:54:50   always talking about wanting to play [TS]

00:54:52   music you're always talking about [TS]

00:54:53   wanting to start a band [TS]

00:54:55   you don't even have a fucking electric [TS]

00:54:56   guitar I was like well yeah you're right [TS]

00:55:00   things like let's go let's get on the [TS]

00:55:02   bus go to the guitar store buy a guitar [TS]

00:55:04   and it was such a revolutionary idea I [TS]

00:55:10   was like okay and we walked out of the [TS]

00:55:14   cafe got on the bus went to the guitar [TS]

00:55:17   store and I had never had this [TS]

00:55:22   I what I had never perceived myself as [TS]

00:55:24   having this opportunity before and I [TS]

00:55:27   went down to the trading musician in the [TS]

00:55:29   university district and I walked in and [TS]

00:55:32   that blonde rickenbacker what was [TS]

00:55:37   sitting on a stand inside the door and I [TS]

00:55:41   was like well I can't afford a record [TS]

00:55:45   bakr and the price tag said it was from [TS]

00:55:49   1967 and it was 650 dollars and it had [TS]

00:55:56   Gibson pickups it and I was like look at [TS]

00:56:00   that and I picked it up and I played it [TS]

00:56:02   and Chris was like people create the AFS [TS]

00:56:04   they were p is but they were like [TS]

00:56:06   sixties like the late sixties Gibson Wow [TS]

00:56:11   pickups that somebody had taken out the [TS]

00:56:14   filter Tron's that came with [TS]

00:56:16   Rickenbacker's and put these Gibson [TS]

00:56:18   you know like sixties Gibson's in there [TS]

00:56:22   and I was like I must have seemed like [TS]

00:56:23   so much money it was extraordinary was [TS]

00:56:26   my entire was almost my entire savings [TS]

00:56:27   and I was like look at this thing and he [TS]

00:56:29   was like you can buy it right now and i [TS]

00:56:32   was i put it down and I walked around [TS]

00:56:33   the store and I spent a couple hours [TS]

00:56:35   looking at every other guitar and I kept [TS]

00:56:36   coming back to this rickenbacker he was [TS]

00:56:38   like and Chris was standing there just [TS]

00:56:39   like that's the one you want buy it this [TS]

00:56:41   is what people do with money they buy [TS]

00:56:43   the thing that they want with it I was [TS]

00:56:45   like but but but but but it's so much [TS]

00:56:48   money and this money I could live on [TS]

00:56:49   this money I could I could I could drink [TS]

00:56:52   a thousand paps blue ribbons with this [TS]

00:56:55   month and he was like or you could buy [TS]

00:56:58   this guitar and i bought it i took it up [TS]

00:57:04   to the counter and i said i will buy [TS]

00:57:05   this guitar and it was the first real i [TS]

00:57:09   think in a way the first real thing i [TS]

00:57:11   ever bought [TS]

00:57:12   well and that guitar was the guitar that [TS]

00:57:15   i started the button family players with [TS]

00:57:17   and the guitar that i started the [TS]

00:57:18   Western State hurricanes with and the [TS]

00:57:19   guitar i started the long winters with [TS]

00:57:21   and you remember that rickenbacker of [TS]

00:57:24   course ideally still got it still have [TS]

00:57:26   it and so that was like know all that [TS]

00:57:29   because the chris community who would [TS]

00:57:30   have thought it was chris community [TS]

00:57:32   saying like do you know what money does [TS]

00:57:33   are you aware of what other people do [TS]

00:57:35   with money like you know how money works [TS]

00:57:38   in the world and I was like I know how [TS]

00:57:40   money works you put it in a shoe box or [TS]

00:57:44   a cigar box and you stack it until you [TS]

00:57:48   have a lot of it and then you look at it [TS]

00:57:50   and then you'd then you drink your way [TS]

00:57:53   through it and he said you know I mean [TS]

00:57:58   the reason the reason it's hard for [TS]

00:58:00   other people to save money is that they [TS]

00:58:01   buy the things that they want which [TS]

00:58:03   obviously like it you don't have that [TS]

00:58:05   problem but every once in awhile you [TS]

00:58:07   actually should buy a thing they want [TS]

00:58:10   and [TS]

00:58:12   I you know this guitar was like the it [TS]

00:58:14   was the thing that made it all possible [TS]

00:58:16   insane [TS]

00:58:20   yeah yeah yeahs 67 rickenbacker with [TS]

00:58:23   Gibson pickups they are you pretty sure [TS]

00:58:25   you remember that correctly [TS]

00:58:28   yeah well what we should do is get Chris [TS]

00:58:30   cannula on here see if he can if he [TS]

00:58:33   validates that story I mean I I think [TS]

00:58:35   Chris Wood Wood pretty shortly [TS]

00:58:38   try and steer the story toward the time [TS]

00:58:41   that I broke into his apartment and put [TS]

00:58:44   a knife in his chest and told him I was [TS]

00:58:46   gonna fucking it is like that clip [TS]