Roderick on the Line

Ep. 109: "#SuperVan"


00:00:00   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:00:02   sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one [TS]

00:00:04   platform that makes it fast and easy to [TS]

00:00:07   create your own professional website [TS]

00:00:08   portfolio or online store for a free [TS]

00:00:11   trial and ten percent off anything you [TS]

00:00:13   by visit squarespace com and enter the [TS]

00:00:16   offer code supertrain at checkout a [TS]

00:00:18   better web starts with your website [TS]

00:00:20   [Music] [TS]

00:00:25   hello I John I'm Merlin good morning how [TS]

00:00:30   are you [TS]

00:00:31   oh it's been a heck of a morning so far [TS]

00:00:33   what happened just a heck of a darn [TS]

00:00:36   morning things and stuff things and [TS]

00:00:39   stuff [TS]

00:00:39   I'm right now covered in pee what it [TS]

00:00:44   costs you other people's be yes and it [TS]

00:00:48   was it was so far free that but I hope [TS]

00:00:53   you were watching your daughter I was [TS]

00:00:56   yeah i was watching her i was watching [TS]

00:00:59   her closely watching her and she was [TS]

00:01:02   covered with p mm but now I'm covered [TS]

00:01:05   with that she have a towel you know when [TS]

00:01:06   it's coming up though okay i'm gonna [TS]

00:01:13   guess not [TS]

00:01:14   yeah mm she does she has she has a [TS]

00:01:17   variety of tells does she does the potty [TS]

00:01:19   dance that's 10 grabbing of the front [TS]

00:01:23   part of her underpants another i do that [TS]

00:01:27   yeah but this was that this was [TS]

00:01:29   something that happened in the night [TS]

00:01:31   oh man that then you know dragged down [TS]

00:01:34   into the next day where are you with [TS]

00:01:35   that process [TS]

00:01:36   mm I mean if I could ask or ninety-eight [TS]

00:01:39   percent of the way there now you know [TS]

00:01:41   that last 2% like software development [TS]

00:01:43   all the development goes into that first [TS]

00:01:45   ninety-eight percent and then the rest [TS]

00:01:47   goes in the remaining ninety eight [TS]

00:01:48   percent yeah you're right it could get [TS]

00:01:51   better math squad that's computer math [TS]

00:01:52   we've covered that already [TS]

00:01:55   well we covered that on the lost episode [TS]

00:01:57   of you look nice today now wait a minute [TS]

00:01:58   you're gonna confuse now uh every day [TS]

00:02:03   somebody's born has never seen the for [TS]

00:02:05   instance that's right every day someone [TS]

00:02:06   is born who's never had a Reese's Peanut [TS]

00:02:08   Butter Cup [TS]

00:02:09   Oh make you can imagine that thank you [TS]

00:02:11   you know you could still have your first [TS]

00:02:14   and I do you say reasons reduce a reeses [TS]

00:02:17   when I was it I I don't have any [TS]

00:02:20   reasoning for this one as a child said [TS]

00:02:21   reeses yes in today s a reeses yeah i [TS]

00:02:24   think somebody I think I heard somebody [TS]

00:02:26   say reeses enough that I was like okay I [TS]

00:02:28   get a little-a little tune in my head [TS]

00:02:30   Reese's peanut butter cups [TS]

00:02:33   that's a good [TS]

00:02:34   that is a good tune I miss I miss [TS]

00:02:37   jingles I really do [TS]

00:02:38   Yeah right there were so many good [TS]

00:02:40   jingles was funny up there is that [TS]

00:02:46   freedom rock turn it up they sitting in [TS]

00:02:50   lawn chairs when they said that I just [TS]

00:02:52   don't think so [TS]

00:02:53   sitting on lawn chairs but on top of a [TS]

00:02:55   man my last my last year of college I [TS]

00:02:57   watched a lot of TV for my work and that [TS]

00:03:00   commercial was on constantly [TS]

00:03:02   yeah yeah that was a that commercial was [TS]

00:03:06   a commercial that became a meta a [TS]

00:03:09   commercial and in the in the culture [TS]

00:03:11   right i mean that's the type of thing [TS]

00:03:13   that Kurt Cobain would have said to [TS]

00:03:15   Chris Cornell backstage at the VMAs they [TS]

00:03:19   would have been dead three drock mad [TS]

00:03:22   gonna spray painted on a shirt [TS]

00:03:25   yep right and now it's now it's all the [TS]

00:03:28   way so that only old men would even get [TS]

00:03:31   the reference which was already i'm like [TS]

00:03:34   a mocking referenced all like tears in [TS]

00:03:36   rain that's just good like I feel like [TS]

00:03:39   two guys in their forties sitting around [TS]

00:03:41   trading commercial jingles from the [TS]

00:03:44   seventies and eighties is kind of like [TS]

00:03:46   that's how i'm going to spend the last [TS]

00:03:47   15 years of my life say sitting with [TS]

00:03:50   shawn wolfe on a porch somewhere going [TS]

00:03:53   like we don't have a war to talk about [TS]

00:03:56   high Bologna and weren't there and [TS]

00:03:58   everyone Lady Liberty with our book of [TS]

00:04:02   recipes you don't gotta tell you the [TS]

00:04:05   schoolhouse rock i can recommend it [TS]

00:04:07   you know I i still feel like there's so [TS]

00:04:09   much see my daughter my daughter she's [TS]

00:04:11   entered stage now where she's stupid [TS]

00:04:12   because she's what we in the expertise [TS]

00:04:15   business Colin advanced beginner because [TS]

00:04:17   she knows just enough to think she knows [TS]

00:04:19   everything you know you're talking about [TS]

00:04:21   oh sure a recent quote a recent close do [TS]

00:04:25   you want to watch this episode of cosmos [TS]

00:04:27   it's about molecules no I already know [TS]

00:04:30   literally everything there is to know [TS]

00:04:31   about molecules a and and and this [TS]

00:04:36   happens all the time right I'm you know [TS]

00:04:38   I know you know 3 6 9 12 15 18 like [TS]

00:04:42   there's still that helped me a lot [TS]

00:04:44   yeah and jammed in between all of those [TS]

00:04:46   ABC programs was a child that I want [TS]

00:04:48   for six hours every saturday morning i [TS]

00:04:51   learned a thing or two from watching [TS]

00:04:52   those dumb Schoolhouse Rock things over [TS]

00:04:54   and over and it's still in my head I i [TS]

00:04:55   would bet you that people of a certain [TS]

00:04:57   age I bet if you did some kind of Google [TS]

00:04:59   Ngram turns out i bet you there is a [TS]

00:05:02   15-year cohort in there that knows the [TS]

00:05:06   preamble to the Constitution better than [TS]

00:05:08   anyone before or since you're right [TS]

00:05:10   because that's the only reason i can't [TS]

00:05:12   put anything at length i know john three [TS]

00:05:15   sixteen i know the preamble to the [TS]

00:05:16   Constitution because you know I know my [TS]

00:05:19   Miranda rights not just got to work two [TS]

00:05:21   roads diverged in a yellow wood and [TS]

00:05:22   sorry I could not follow both I don't [TS]

00:05:25   know that there's a bird in a tree up i [TS]

00:05:29   think that I shall never see a poem [TS]

00:05:30   lovely as a tree [TS]

00:05:32   I i miss quite a lot I've taken to I [TS]

00:05:35   like to source my quotes because I you [TS]

00:05:37   know basically everybody says Mark Twain [TS]

00:05:40   has said everything that much I know [TS]

00:05:42   and he's never said most of it and [TS]

00:05:44   becomes mad right that are clean said my [TS]

00:05:47   watches right 2 times a day [TS]

00:05:48   yeah use that in a song that was a [TS]

00:05:51   market is there for your son [TS]

00:05:53   it's super because you know that the [TS]

00:05:56   preamble to the Constitution the [TS]

00:05:58   schoolhouse rock actually that that [TS]

00:06:03   played a very important role in a [TS]

00:06:05   pivotal moment in my education could [TS]

00:06:08   interested in sharing it with me [TS]

00:06:10   well as a matter of fact have I ever [TS]

00:06:12   told you the story in a seventh grade I [TS]

00:06:15   so it in Anchorage there were there were [TS]

00:06:19   in junior high says junior high was 78 [TS]

00:06:22   as it should be [TS]

00:06:23   as God intended always a junior high [TS]

00:06:26   risk middle school habitat changes [TS]

00:06:27   everything [TS]

00:06:28   I don't even want to think about what it [TS]

00:06:30   would be like to go to to go to middle [TS]

00:06:32   school you know some middle school not [TS]

00:06:33   to derail you I think middle school [TS]

00:06:35   would be much easier on a child my [TS]

00:06:37   goodness that the the difference i mean [TS]

00:06:40   my gosh what a hellhole seventh grade is [TS]

00:06:42   listen we're not even we're not even [TS]

00:06:44   discussing this because clearly those [TS]

00:06:45   children should not be building trail ya [TS]

00:06:47   down go ahead of moving right along [TS]

00:06:50   alright so seventh grade a moving to [TS]

00:06:54   move into a junior high school and in [TS]

00:06:56   Anchorage there was a there was a [TS]

00:06:58   program called packed [TS]

00:07:00   program for academically and creatively [TS]

00:07:01   talented and it was one of those like [TS]

00:07:04   late seventies attempts to segregate the [TS]

00:07:09   smart kids off where you could you know [TS]

00:07:14   they were they could play with play-doh [TS]

00:07:15   or so can have tracks anymore she had to [TS]

00:07:18   come up with some academic sounding [TS]

00:07:20   obscure name i was in de o video where [TS]

00:07:22   do stand for differentiated educational [TS]

00:07:25   opportunities uh-huh right exactly [TS]

00:07:27   sounds like the helmet class and Indians [TS]

00:07:30   in seattle when I left they were [TS]

00:07:32   pioneering a program called dig which [TS]

00:07:35   was there ! yea big explanation big [TS]

00:07:40   difference is one-dimensional interest [TS]

00:07:43   group or something there yet that was [TS]

00:07:45   all it was all super suspect and of [TS]

00:07:47   course when you went away to the pact [TS]

00:07:49   class and then you came back impact of [TS]

00:07:51   the digger the do class when you came [TS]

00:07:54   back to the regular class of course you [TS]

00:07:56   were hated by everyone because you came [TS]

00:07:58   back and there was like that yet glue in [TS]

00:08:00   your hair and it clearly been building [TS]

00:08:04   rocket ships a differential machine i [TS]

00:08:06   learned to use the slide my test [TS]

00:08:08   marketed toys you could dummies [TS]

00:08:11   anyway when we move into junior high of [TS]

00:08:13   course that's when you transition to you [TS]

00:08:16   transition to our long classes that you [TS]

00:08:18   can move around the school and go to [TS]

00:08:20   different teachers right in the high [TS]

00:08:21   school model and yet they maintained a [TS]

00:08:25   packed programme in the seventh grade [TS]

00:08:28   and 7th 8th grade so this pact clearly [TS]

00:08:33   wasn't a thing you could you could have [TS]

00:08:35   in the high schools but in the junior [TS]

00:08:37   High's there was still packed but they [TS]

00:08:40   had put it they put it in over an [TS]

00:08:43   existing system where there was there [TS]

00:08:45   were already honors classes or are they [TS]

00:08:49   were then accelerated was like [TS]

00:08:53   international baccalaureate no no but it [TS]

00:08:55   was but that there was already an old [TS]

00:08:58   school system in place where where [TS]

00:09:00   advanced students took harder classes ok [TS]

00:09:03   and then packed [TS]

00:09:05   was was a thrown into the mix and was [TS]

00:09:10   regarded as higher than the honors [TS]

00:09:14   classes so there was a three-tier system [TS]

00:09:17   in my junior high and again like the [TS]

00:09:23   honors classes were hard harder classes [TS]

00:09:25   that were like you're on a college track [TS]

00:09:27   young person and then the pact classes [TS]

00:09:30   were both like if you were really a hot [TS]

00:09:35   shot and also if you were like a nose [TS]

00:09:39   picker with a bowl haircut that tested [TS]

00:09:44   well right I mean and this is the [TS]

00:09:46   problem with the advanced placement [TS]

00:09:47   classes it's like it the the hotshot [TS]

00:09:50   kids want to be in the hottest one [TS]

00:09:52   ok so the accelerated classes that's for [TS]

00:09:54   kids who want to know what's on the test [TS]

00:09:55   and get a and the the nerdier was more [TS]

00:09:59   creative stuff [TS]

00:10:00   yes right that this was there the late [TS]

00:10:02   seventies idea that creativity that all [TS]

00:10:05   we needed to do is activate the [TS]

00:10:06   creativity in our children and they were [TS]

00:10:09   going to all be rocket scientists and [TS]

00:10:12   they were all going to be you know they [TS]

00:10:14   were going to be little baby Einsteins [TS]

00:10:16   because what they really needed to do [TS]

00:10:17   was draw like they what they really need [TS]

00:10:20   to do an 8th grade withdraw and you know [TS]

00:10:24   and build like Eiffel Towers out of out [TS]

00:10:26   of popsicle sticks and so forth [TS]

00:10:29   anyway so when when I entered junior [TS]

00:10:33   high I was putting was putting all the [TS]

00:10:36   pact classes but by the first quarter it [TS]

00:10:39   was evidence that I was not ready to be [TS]

00:10:42   in school [TS]

00:10:45   really I was not I was not ready to be [TS]

00:10:47   with other people and that must have [TS]

00:10:52   been an arduous decision for somebody [TS]

00:10:54   you know we got tracks and we got packs [TS]

00:10:57   but John just shouldn't be in the [TS]

00:10:59   building [TS]

00:11:00   you just shouldn't be here and then what [TS]

00:11:02   what became apparent was that in grade [TS]

00:11:04   school I had been able to negotiate an [TS]

00:11:10   arrangement with my fifth and sixth [TS]

00:11:12   grade teachers both [TS]

00:11:14   I negotiated arrangement with that sure [TS]

00:11:17   where it was like listen I don't wanna [TS]

00:11:20   I'm not going to be able to do the [TS]

00:11:22   assignments you have laid out but what [TS]

00:11:26   if you know you know I could disrupt [TS]

00:11:28   this everyday from the seat [TS]

00:11:30   whenever you have to stand up that's [TS]

00:11:31   right this is how this is gonna go get a [TS]

00:11:34   real nice class here [TS]

00:11:35   shame something happened to either i [TS]

00:11:38   repeat everything you say in a singsong [TS]

00:11:40   voice while I stick pins in my in the [TS]

00:11:45   the the in my first wart or or you let [TS]

00:11:51   me read books independently and i will [TS]

00:11:55   write book reports for you so you can [TS]

00:11:59   teach your class and everything will be [TS]

00:12:01   fine it's still manageable that they [TS]

00:12:02   still get to be teachers and they get a [TS]

00:12:04   dignified way out [TS]

00:12:05   that's right and they get to assign [TS]

00:12:06   books 22 they got to sign books to me [TS]

00:12:09   that made them feel like they were [TS]

00:12:11   really part of the process in any case [TS]

00:12:14   in junior high [TS]

00:12:15   nobody was interested in making this [TS]

00:12:16   arrangement with me because I had six [TS]

00:12:18   teachers instead of one and so by the [TS]

00:12:22   end of the first quarter [TS]

00:12:23   I had failed all my pack classes I'm [TS]

00:12:26   just you know and and we've never been [TS]

00:12:27   given really letter grades before it [TS]

00:12:29   always been sort of checks and plusses [TS]

00:12:31   environment all of a sudden you know [TS]

00:12:33   great cards just like really bad shape [TS]

00:12:36   and the administrators said oh well he [TS]

00:12:43   obviously doesn't belong impact it's too [TS]

00:12:46   advanced for him we need to put it back [TS]

00:12:50   down in the regular classes I don't know [TS]

00:12:52   how we made this mistake the testing [TS]

00:12:55   usually is pretty accurate [TS]

00:12:57   we're going to put it down in the [TS]

00:12:58   regular classes so he can catch back up [TS]

00:13:00   with the students and I showed up for [TS]

00:13:03   set the first day of second quarter and [TS]

00:13:06   went in and sat in these regular classes [TS]

00:13:08   with these normal kids and I was so [TS]

00:13:11   mortified and the teacher was doing it [TS]

00:13:19   was at the first class first day the [TS]

00:13:21   teacher was doing some by presentation [TS]

00:13:25   of like the the Constitution and I stood [TS]

00:13:31   up and recite it from memory the [TS]

00:13:34   preamble to the Constitution now of [TS]

00:13:37   course i was singing the song from the [TS]

00:13:40   television program we the people in [TS]

00:13:45   order to win but I was smart enough to [TS]

00:13:49   sing it to myself in my head and then [TS]

00:13:51   translated into very formal sounding [TS]

00:13:52   talk [TS]

00:13:54   We the People in order to form a more [TS]

00:13:57   perfect union and the teacher was like [TS]

00:14:01   so and what what amazed me as I was [TS]

00:14:03   doing it was that no one in the class [TS]

00:14:05   recognized what i was doing like this is [TS]

00:14:08   the third this is the the the only sign [TS]

00:14:11   I needed that that the normal class was [TS]

00:14:14   full of ding-a-lings was that no one [TS]

00:14:17   even understood that I was just singing [TS]

00:14:19   the song that we all knew what I was [TS]

00:14:22   just saying it can't play three people [TS]

00:14:24   didn't just join it [TS]

00:14:26   nobody everybody just just SAT and [TS]

00:14:28   stared at me in all and the teacher to [TS]

00:14:33   and you know about halfway through I'm [TS]

00:14:36   like I'm I'm orating like Abraham [TS]

00:14:39   Lincoln in that you know like talking [TS]

00:14:43   about the Holy smooth tariff this [TS]

00:14:45   episode of Roderick on the line is once [TS]

00:14:47   again sponsored by our very good friends [TS]

00:14:48   at Squarespace Squarespace you guys know [TS]

00:14:51   it is the all-in-one platform that makes [TS]

00:14:53   it fast and easy to create your own [TS]

00:14:55   website portfolio or online store [TS]

00:14:57   john and i have been using square space [TS]

00:14:59   for the entire time Roderick on the line [TS]

00:15:01   has been running they've been great to [TS]

00:15:02   us wonderful to work with [TS]

00:15:04   it's simple enough for a podcaster to [TS]

00:15:05   understand truly they make the whole [TS]

00:15:07   process so simple they offer an easy [TS]

00:15:09   drag-and-drop interface that beautiful [TS]

00:15:11   free templates you can tweak and all the [TS]

00:15:13   designs responsive so they look great on [TS]

00:15:15   every device if you ever do get stuck [TS]

00:15:17   don't worry your friends at square space [TS]

00:15:18   for their with 24 x seven support they [TS]

00:15:21   have dedicated teams in New York City [TS]

00:15:22   and Dublin which is in Ireland [TS]

00:15:24   Squarespace plans start at a mere eight [TS]

00:15:27   dollars a month and they include a free [TS]

00:15:28   domain name if you sign up for a year [TS]

00:15:30   also every plan comes with the ability [TS]

00:15:32   to create your own online store so if [TS]

00:15:34   you have anything you want to sell you [TS]

00:15:36   can sell it right from your very own [TS]

00:15:37   site so whether you're a podcaster or [TS]

00:15:39   musician writer and photographer [TS]

00:15:41   anything please check out Squarespace [TS]

00:15:43   it's a great way to get your stuff on [TS]

00:15:45   the web and do tell them you heard about [TS]

00:15:46   it from Roderick on the line in fact you [TS]

00:15:48   get a free trial plus ten percent off [TS]

00:15:51   any package you choose by using the very [TS]

00:15:53   special offer code supertrain when you [TS]

00:15:55   check out our thanks to squarespace for [TS]

00:15:57   supporting Roderick on the line we could [TS]

00:15:59   not do it without them the kid the [TS]

00:16:01   kansas-nebraska act when the boys used [TS]

00:16:04   to hate your date against your best [TS]

00:16:06   investigate and find life and the [TS]

00:16:11   teacher but a stentorian telling that [TS]

00:16:12   says that you have you've rehearsed this [TS]

00:16:15   Oh not only that but that I know the if [TS]

00:16:17   you want to be too sure i could do the [TS]

00:16:18   whole Constitution stop me when you get [TS]

00:16:21   bored cuz that's right and uh the [TS]

00:16:24   teacher you know like hightailed it down [TS]

00:16:26   to the office and said listen I don't [TS]

00:16:29   know what this I don't know what kind of [TS]

00:16:30   kid this is but I we don't need him in [TS]

00:16:34   my class this is gonna be a problem [TS]

00:16:37   I don't know the preamble to the [TS]

00:16:38   Constitution I don't want this kid that [TS]

00:16:40   does in my class making me look bad and [TS]

00:16:44   so there was this period there with it [TS]

00:16:46   and the there was this period [TS]

00:16:47   intermediate period where I was where [TS]

00:16:50   they didn't know what class to put me [TS]

00:16:51   because they couldn't put me in the [TS]

00:16:52   honors class that was clearly for [TS]

00:16:54   students serious students who are doing [TS]

00:16:56   the work they had taken me out of the [TS]

00:16:59   pack class and they didn't want to put [TS]

00:17:00   me back in there i had gotten all f's [TS]

00:17:03   all the children of immigrants with good [TS]

00:17:06   cursive [TS]

00:17:06   that's right they are the honors class [TS]

00:17:08   exactly [TS]

00:17:09   and then but then in the regular class [TS]

00:17:11   it was clear i was just gonna throw [TS]

00:17:12   grenades all day and they're so there [TS]

00:17:14   was a way there was a the world while [TS]

00:17:16   there I was just like going to whatever [TS]

00:17:18   could i would go to different class [TS]

00:17:20   everyday and finally they were like [TS]

00:17:21   alright he's serious [TS]

00:17:22   then they were like okay you go back to [TS]

00:17:24   the pack class but listen if you're in a [TS]

00:17:26   company they put you in special projects [TS]

00:17:28   what they should have done is take me [TS]

00:17:31   again [TS]

00:17:31   hand me over to the National probably [TS]

00:17:33   want to rehash this but I'm gonna say it [TS]

00:17:35   you know every day someone is born he's [TS]

00:17:37   never heard about cutting trail it's so [TS]

00:17:39   the entire house is a crucible let's say [TS]

00:17:43   crucible crystal clear go yankees [TS]

00:17:46   corrected me I think I'm crucible that's [TS]

00:17:47   not wrong so I know crucible ism yeah [TS]

00:17:50   that's like a normal regular and his [TS]

00:17:52   emailer are different right [TS]

00:17:54   anyway the it's excruciating whether you [TS]

00:17:58   starting six you go six seven eight or [TS]

00:18:00   you 7th 8th 9th whatever I was seven [TS]

00:18:01   eight nine and in in florida that the [TS]

00:18:04   entire experience is excruciating that [TS]

00:18:07   for everybody involved there's I is not [TS]

00:18:09   a good outcome for any because there [TS]

00:18:11   can't be because it is a priori a [TS]

00:18:13   horrible existential struggle for every [TS]

00:18:18   person who is that age and every single [TS]

00:18:20   person who has to have any interaction [TS]

00:18:22   with that horrible little person its [TS]

00:18:25   there's no wait i mean you can make [TS]

00:18:26   tracks all day long you can make special [TS]

00:18:28   projects all day long but I mean that [TS]

00:18:29   the whole thing it's amazing it just [TS]

00:18:31   seems like to be a junior higher middle [TS]

00:18:32   school especially junior high teacher [TS]

00:18:34   you you really need your almost like a [TS]

00:18:36   prison guard but you're really just like [TS]

00:18:38   I just don't want to get shipped today [TS]

00:18:40   like the entire experience has got to be [TS]

00:18:42   so dispiriting with moments of joy but [TS]

00:18:44   like you're you know you're such a role [TS]

00:18:46   such little crazy monkeys in that period [TS]

00:18:47   you know just are your hormones are just [TS]

00:18:50   tearing you apart in ways that you can't [TS]

00:18:51   begin to understand you have to interact [TS]

00:18:53   with people whose hormones are tearing [TS]

00:18:54   them apart [TS]

00:18:55   it's a it's a message he'll kids aren't [TS]

00:18:58   even sexy at that age [TS]

00:18:59   mm well yeah yeah I'll go with that [TS]

00:19:03   hi I I figured out Marlon I figured out [TS]

00:19:06   the vehicle then i'm going to use as a [TS]

00:19:10   mobile junior high school that my own [TS]

00:19:14   daughter is it a custom white van when I [TS]

00:19:17   take her out [TS]

00:19:18   no no [TS]

00:19:19   hey uncle Jack's poor junior haha i'm [TS]

00:19:23   just going to park across the street [TS]

00:19:24   from the realtor i will take kids really [TS]

00:19:26   want to learn something trouble reading [TS]

00:19:28   the plates they got some mud on know you [TS]

00:19:33   know might my plan to my plan 22 [TS]

00:19:36   throughout the junior high years [TS]

00:19:38   well originally was to drive a jeep to [TS]

00:19:40   chair del Fuego yeah but an inexpensive [TS]

00:19:43   cheap that would necessarily require [TS]

00:19:45   repairs along the way that's right [TS]

00:19:46   that's right but but I i cannot i cannot [TS]

00:19:50   navigate the the Colombian gap there [TS]

00:19:53   whatever the hell that thing is called [TS]

00:19:55   you know the you know the one I'm [TS]

00:19:57   talking about i don't because there's [TS]

00:19:58   not a schoolhouse rock on it [TS]

00:19:59   um the you know right there right there [TS]

00:20:02   in Panama there's this there's this [TS]

00:20:06   swamp and the suave sort of between the [TS]

00:20:10   border of Panama and Colombia it's [TS]

00:20:13   called like the it's the Darien Gap [TS]

00:20:17   that's right so as they say in business [TS]

00:20:19   you're pivoting you are you taking the [TS]

00:20:20   essence of the of this the building's [TS]

00:20:24   Ramon that you're going to go on with [TS]

00:20:25   your daughter you're pivoting and what's [TS]

00:20:27   the new direction [TS]

00:20:28   well the new direction I mean obviously [TS]

00:20:31   the first my first choice would be to [TS]

00:20:34   spearhead a project to build a road to [TS]

00:20:36   the dariĆ©n gap ja right now what would [TS]

00:20:39   you do what would teach her a little [TS]

00:20:40   person more than to watch her father [TS]

00:20:43   build a road through an impassable [TS]

00:20:45   jungle but that seems unlikely given [TS]

00:20:50   given the will of the people i don't [TS]

00:20:53   think that i don't think there is the [TS]

00:20:54   will you get that you get the right [TS]

00:20:57   contract the people in North and South [TS]

00:20:59   America need to have a need to have the [TS]

00:21:01   will to join together and build a road [TS]

00:21:04   through this impassable jungle but until [TS]

00:21:07   that happens I think the new project is [TS]

00:21:10   to buy a GMC a GMC RV and you got it you [TS]

00:21:19   got a google this because it's in [TS]

00:21:21   because it's a fantastic that there was [TS]

00:21:23   a period when General Motors in the in [TS]

00:21:26   the early seventies from like 72 7800 [TS]

00:21:28   yes general motors built a recreational [TS]

00:21:32   vehicle where they used all of the to [TS]

00:21:35   all of their top technology it and they [TS]

00:21:39   said this is going to be our flagship [TS]

00:21:41   device on his hands on the second is [TS]

00:21:44   google bus meet supertrain right it's [TS]

00:21:46   like it's like it's like a super [TS]

00:21:48   training Superman Superman and I've been [TS]

00:21:51   inside a few of these things now and [TS]

00:21:54   they are extremely extremely like [TS]

00:21:58   comfortable kind of that the the ride [TS]

00:22:01   height is pretty low to the ground there [TS]

00:22:03   on these pneumatic shocks the berry that [TS]

00:22:06   lots of light inside and they like [TS]

00:22:10   General Motors for whatever reason [TS]

00:22:11   thought like in 1972 the recreational [TS]

00:22:17   vehicle is the way of the future from [TS]

00:22:19   and we are gonna we are going to make [TS]

00:22:22   the best recreational vehicle that's [TS]

00:22:24   ever been made and they made they made [TS]

00:22:26   him only for six years and they were too [TS]

00:22:27   expensive [TS]

00:22:28   nobody could afford it's right in the [TS]

00:22:29   middle of the gas crisis all the cars [TS]

00:22:31   are getting tiny exactly and so it ended [TS]

00:22:34   up it was it's not like these in like [TS]

00:22:36   5-10 miles to the gallon maybe no I [TS]

00:22:38   think they're actually i think you know [TS]

00:22:40   I think well I mean it's got a big motor [TS]

00:22:42   but i think they do pretty well you know [TS]

00:22:44   considering that during the Reagan years [TS]

00:22:46   we made it a national policy to see how [TS]

00:22:50   how little of gas saving technology we [TS]

00:22:54   can use in cars cable game there was a [TS]

00:22:56   little game like hey this the the new [TS]

00:22:58   explorer only gets 11 miles to the [TS]

00:23:00   gallon didn't remember when we started [TS]

00:23:03   making fuel efficient vehicles again a [TS]

00:23:05   few years ago and they were like this [TS]

00:23:06   car gets 30 miles to the gallon isn't [TS]

00:23:08   that amazing and it was like the car's [TS]

00:23:10   got 30 miles to the gallon to move 30 [TS]

00:23:12   years ago [TS]

00:23:13   well they want to say for they using [TS]

00:23:15   that part of it is that I mean if you [TS]

00:23:17   could drive around in a Pinto or [TS]

00:23:18   something but you got t-boned by by up [TS]

00:23:22   you know ltd you're gone [TS]

00:23:25   right i just want to get our listeners I [TS]

00:23:28   I know most of you have computers and [TS]

00:23:29   will google i really want to encourage [TS]

00:23:31   you to look at these because when you [TS]

00:23:33   said GM cr-v of course my first thinking [TS]

00:23:35   of an Airstream i'm thinking of a [TS]

00:23:36   Winnebago but no I mean it really is [TS]

00:23:39   like a of a van on steroids tons of [TS]

00:23:43   Windows that you get that interior I [TS]

00:23:44   just sent you just look at this look at [TS]

00:23:47   that it's got wood paneling inside it's [TS]

00:23:49   got a sink it really is like an RV but [TS]

00:23:51   it really is like a big van now it [TS]

00:23:53   doesn't have the the balloon feeling of [TS]

00:23:56   a Winnebago it really feels like [TS]

00:23:57   something you could you get into a [TS]

00:23:58   parking lot maybe right and the thing is [TS]

00:24:00   it's hyper what I love about it is that [TS]

00:24:03   they're designed in this hyper efficient [TS]

00:24:06   way so that for instance the it's got [TS]

00:24:09   like one of those European toilets [TS]

00:24:11   showers where you just go into the [TS]

00:24:13   bathroom and whatever you do that if you [TS]

00:24:16   want the whole bathroom is a shower and [TS]

00:24:19   a one of the other things as you can so [TS]

00:24:21   the via the bench there in the front who [TS]

00:24:26   the back of the bench flips up and [TS]

00:24:28   becomes a bunk bed and then the the [TS]

00:24:32   little table the little diner style [TS]

00:24:34   table becomes a queen-size bed better [TS]

00:24:36   screen size bed in the back and then the [TS]

00:24:39   the closet door and the bathroom door [TS]

00:24:41   both open into the hall in such a way [TS]

00:24:44   that it becomes like a jack-and-jill [TS]

00:24:46   door where the the bedroom in the back [TS]

00:24:50   can go into the bathroom and there's [TS]

00:24:52   always a door closed between it and the [TS]

00:24:54   front of the claret clever design and [TS]

00:24:57   then people in the front can go to the [TS]

00:24:59   bathroom and somebody in the back [TS]

00:25:00   bedroom can always have a door closed [TS]

00:25:02   like you know it's just very it's very [TS]

00:25:05   nicely done so i'm going to get one of [TS]

00:25:08   these and this is going to be like this [TS]

00:25:11   is going to be a proof-of-concept [TS]

00:25:12   supertrain proof-of-concept who can [TS]

00:25:16   drive around America we're going to [TS]

00:25:18   maybe solve some crimes [TS]

00:25:19   [Music] [TS]

00:25:20   we're going to investigate you know what [TS]

00:25:22   maybe we'll probit the Darien Gap [TS]

00:25:24   although my research indicates that you [TS]

00:25:27   can't get very far [TS]

00:25:28   even in a Land Rover let alone in a GMC [TS]

00:25:31   RV but I feel like again so you know you [TS]

00:25:36   may recognize this because i believe [TS]

00:25:37   that this was the this was the basis of [TS]

00:25:41   the the combat vehicle and stripes that [TS]

00:25:45   they took over in 20 mike-mike right [TS]

00:25:48   right isn't that the I yeah I could [TS]

00:25:51   totally see that it's the stripes RV [TS]

00:25:54   platform [TS]

00:25:55   I want this so much i know i know and so [TS]

00:26:00   but the thing is I'm looking inside [TS]

00:26:01   again i'm just looking at these interior [TS]

00:26:02   shots it looks like you could very [TS]

00:26:03   easily if you want to do some some [TS]

00:26:06   classic book learning you have ample [TS]

00:26:08   space you have you can have a salon type [TS]

00:26:10   environment um have an open discussion [TS]

00:26:12   this area's we could sit into your work [TS]

00:26:13   at a table the the driver and passenger [TS]

00:26:16   seats swivel around captain seats bigger [TS]

00:26:19   agency they become like you know you can [TS]

00:26:20   kind of lord it over the people who are [TS]

00:26:22   there in your living room and that's the [TS]

00:26:26   thing i mean once you what [TS]

00:26:27   once you're the captain of a vehicle [TS]

00:26:29   like this you know it's it becomes a [TS]

00:26:32   situation where nobody gets nobody sits [TS]

00:26:33   in the captain's chair but the captain [TS]

00:26:35   Oh what you're just going to ask your [TS]

00:26:36   classroom and the teacher see I don't [TS]

00:26:38   think so now you know so this is the [TS]

00:26:40   culmination of a dream for you John you [TS]

00:26:41   could potentially to and play music in [TS]

00:26:43   this but we also get to teach while [TS]

00:26:45   you're driving and being outside the [TS]

00:26:46   system that's right i feel like i feel [TS]

00:26:49   it's win-win [TS]

00:26:50   it's a pretty wonderful vehicle and and [TS]

00:26:51   you know if the if like storage [TS]

00:26:54   opportunities were maximizing I could [TS]

00:26:55   totally take a bunch of guitars in there [TS]

00:26:57   too but it's got that it's also let's [TS]

00:27:00   get big air conditioners got all the big [TS]

00:27:01   storage on top [TS]

00:27:02   mm it's sort of like a bill bixby as the [TS]

00:27:05   Hulk man but the thing I don't have the [TS]

00:27:09   on the run and we can maybe a little bit [TS]

00:27:11   of of shazam right it's really appeals [TS]

00:27:15   to a middle-aged man in a certain way it [TS]

00:27:16   really does [TS]

00:27:17   yeah you just get this thing and go [TS]

00:27:18   self-contained em just driving around [TS]

00:27:21   just stay in walmart parking lots we [TS]

00:27:24   don't think about this is you could park [TS]

00:27:25   it that's the thing you could Park this [TS]

00:27:27   vehicle in the ins on city streets [TS]

00:27:31   yeah it'sit's I don't want to say that [TS]

00:27:33   it's it is kind of the form factor of a [TS]

00:27:35   stretched-out van but it is kind is [TS]

00:27:37   definitely an RV so what I mean like [TS]

00:27:39   Walmart like what the walmart have a [TS]

00:27:41   whole thing where you can park in the [TS]

00:27:42   parking lot for free [TS]

00:27:42   is that still a thing that's still a [TS]

00:27:44   thing yeah there's a lot of Walmart's [TS]

00:27:45   John i know they figured that out but [TS]

00:27:47   behind the problem with that of course [TS]

00:27:48   is that that's not everywhere you want [TS]

00:27:50   to be you never want to be in a woman to [TS]

00:27:51   start and I'm also thinking you could [TS]

00:27:53   fortify this if you get some i don't i [TS]

00:27:54   don't know if I about militarizing [TS]

00:27:56   vehicles but it seems to me that with [TS]

00:27:58   the right kind of cop shocks cop breaks [TS]

00:28:01   cop suspension you could really make [TS]

00:28:02   this thing work if you i think what i [TS]

00:28:05   would do is i watch stripes multiple [TS]

00:28:06   times and figure out exactly how like [TS]

00:28:08   how about how they come battle fide that [TS]

00:28:10   ok so maybe maybe the first trip is you [TS]

00:28:14   you bring along a tivo & you show your [TS]

00:28:16   daughter stripes your blues brothers you [TS]

00:28:18   sure the short-lived a terrible NBC TV [TS]

00:28:20   movie supertrain you should hurt what [TS]

00:28:22   can happen when you just get out on the [TS]

00:28:23   road maybe some of the road movies with [TS]

00:28:25   my open my legs I i I'm just gonna I'm [TS]

00:28:28   gonna give her some crayons i'm going to [TS]

00:28:29   give her some popsicle sticks and I'm [TS]

00:28:31   gonna say listen let your creativity [TS]

00:28:32   Rome em we don't have to beat the [TS]

00:28:35   Russians to the moon anymore but we do [TS]

00:28:38   have to beat unnamed Russians we have to [TS]

00:28:42   beat we have to be a metaphorical [TS]

00:28:44   Russians in our in our you know in our [TS]

00:28:48   quest to be like the next gen is so we [TS]

00:28:53   don't lose the motorhome gap it was [TS]

00:28:56   that's right we don't we don't we don't [TS]

00:28:58   we don't be on the wrong side of the [TS]

00:28:59   motorhome gap I i do I feel like this is [TS]

00:29:02   I feel like this is it's in my future [TS]

00:29:04   somewhere i talked to some guy on the [TS]

00:29:05   phone the other day and I was like to [TS]

00:29:08   know who was selling one of these and [TS]

00:29:11   his actually was was like a giant gold [TS]

00:29:14   easter egg like this one leaves at me [TS]

00:29:17   but they're only 26 feet long so you [TS]

00:29:20   know the big Garvey's or 40 feet long [TS]

00:29:22   the 26 footer is like it kind of is [TS]

00:29:27   it's small enough that it it doesn't [TS]

00:29:29   register a lot of the media this is one [TS]

00:29:32   of those vehicles that like you look for [TS]

00:29:35   the European cargo vans very kind of a [TS]

00:29:36   look at it twice [TS]

00:29:37   yeah that's bigger than it seems maybe [TS]

00:29:40   that these are driving on the roads all [TS]

00:29:41   around us and we just don't see them you [TS]

00:29:44   know they have that stone technology [TS]

00:29:46   like it's just small and weird enough [TS]

00:29:48   looking at you that you're I doesn't [TS]

00:29:50   pick up on it but they might be [TS]

00:29:52   everywhere [TS]

00:29:53   yeah i'm starting to notice them you [TS]

00:29:57   know I think there's a community of [TS]

00:29:58   people to this is no this is where this [TS]

00:30:00   community building kind of vehicles for [TS]

00:30:01   sure [TS]

00:30:02   yeah well in imagine if you could get [TS]

00:30:04   the cutting trail road program going for [TS]

00:30:07   seventh graders were compelled to go [TS]

00:30:09   into service to cut trail imagine if you [TS]

00:30:11   were the director of that and I'm saying [TS]

00:30:14   you got time your daughter's not a few [TS]

00:30:15   years to grow up a little bit [TS]

00:30:17   wouldn't it be great if you got to a [TS]

00:30:18   time where you could be the guy who goes [TS]

00:30:20   and you're the inspector for that like [TS]

00:30:23   if you're retired director of the trail [TS]

00:30:24   cutting program and you just drive your [TS]

00:30:27   GMC RV with your daughter your guitars [TS]

00:30:29   from place to place you know America [TS]

00:30:32   just checking in checking and make sure [TS]

00:30:34   trail is being cut and sew so put so by [TS]

00:30:36   day your tyrannical enforcer of middle [TS]

00:30:40   school discipline and then biting your [TS]

00:30:41   sensitive singer-songwriter I'm you know [TS]

00:30:44   and I true i'm counting the money [TS]

00:30:47   already imagine imagine the people that [TS]

00:30:50   would come to the shows all of it all [TS]

00:30:52   the fans of the all the fans of the of [TS]

00:30:55   the program simply an American hear [TS]

00:30:58   about that and you can go for parents [TS]

00:30:59   night were like once let's say once [TS]

00:31:02   every month or two [TS]

00:31:03   your parents come visit you briefly not [TS]

00:31:05   pass you anything [TS]

00:31:06   well know what you write you you you [TS]

00:31:08   meet you meet there in the big in the [TS]

00:31:10   big hall there is no touching [TS]

00:31:13   I I feel like I feel like something has [TS]

00:31:17   to happen where where we are able to can [TS]

00:31:20   we are able to galvanize the will of the [TS]

00:31:22   people again I don't feel like we can do [TS]

00:31:24   that so much anymore [TS]

00:31:26   right the people feel burned the people [TS]

00:31:28   have had their will galvanized multiple [TS]

00:31:30   times fucked up projects over and [TS]

00:31:33   nobody's into a big project anymore [TS]

00:31:36   he is also that you know this side as [TS]

00:31:39   we've certainly talked about at length I [TS]

00:31:41   mean everybody knows so much who they [TS]

00:31:44   aren't and when they're not into and [TS]

00:31:46   what kind of stuff is screwed them were [TS]

00:31:48   also hypersensitive to all these things [TS]

00:31:50   that haven't worked out before I think I [TS]

00:31:51   think America needs a hero some somebody [TS]

00:31:54   that can get out there are some you know [TS]

00:31:55   an organization where I mean you know go [TS]

00:31:58   walk around America and notice how many [TS]

00:32:00   things were built as like wpa projects [TS]

00:32:03   right or the freaking interstate can you [TS]

00:32:05   imagine can you imagine America having [TS]

00:32:08   the will to build an interstate highway [TS]

00:32:09   system now right was like okay here's [TS]

00:32:12   the project we're going to do this big [TS]

00:32:14   thing and we're going to come into the [TS]

00:32:15   center of every major city and teardown [TS]

00:32:17   of a six-block wide stripe right through [TS]

00:32:23   the heart of town but we need to do this [TS]

00:32:25   we need to do this because we need these [TS]

00:32:27   roads so avatar hell of a story it's an [TS]

00:32:30   incredible story that has not been told [TS]

00:32:32   I was going to say that I mean like all [TS]

00:32:34   the stuff you know I our friend John [TS]

00:32:36   circuses always talking about the [TS]

00:32:38   supposed a fantastic biography of robert [TS]

00:32:40   moses the-the-the gonna be like you know [TS]

00:32:44   it's almost tore down half of New York [TS]

00:32:46   City it out that sounds fascinating but [TS]

00:32:48   I mean that's the stuff behind the [TS]

00:32:49   scenes that's that's so incredible [TS]

00:32:50   think about how much eminent domain had [TS]

00:32:53   to happen in order to get the highways [TS]

00:32:56   built its insane it absolutely i mean [TS]

00:32:59   when you just looking at overhead [TS]

00:33:01   pictures of Seattle and listening to my [TS]

00:33:03   mom talked about it where they you know [TS]

00:33:07   they picked they picked the route of the [TS]

00:33:10   interstate through the city where where [TS]

00:33:13   it would be kind of the least disruptive [TS]

00:33:15   like they cut it through the steepest [TS]

00:33:18   hills I guess so [TS]

00:33:21   so it is they didn't like have to tear [TS]

00:33:23   down any office buildings and it wasn't [TS]

00:33:25   really like it a lot of the land was [TS]

00:33:29   already somewhat fallow but it also went [TS]

00:33:34   through like basically the nicest [TS]

00:33:37   neighborhood in the city while we're all [TS]

00:33:39   of the [TS]

00:33:39   big homes were sitting up on the bluff [TS]

00:33:41   with panoramic views and they just wiped [TS]

00:33:47   it out and my mom said at a at a certain [TS]

00:33:51   point in like whatever that was nineteen [TS]

00:33:53   sixty that there were barges floating [TS]

00:33:58   out of the city all the time with big [TS]

00:34:00   Victorian homes on them where somebody [TS]

00:34:02   had bought up victorian home for a [TS]

00:34:04   dollar for and put it on a truck taking [TS]

00:34:07   it down to the lake put it on a barge [TS]

00:34:08   floated it out through the locks and [TS]

00:34:11   apparently I haven't been able to [TS]

00:34:14   research this because I've been too busy [TS]

00:34:17   looping my guitar over and over over a [TS]

00:34:22   drum machine for the last seven years [TS]

00:34:24   but apparently all through Puget Sound [TS]

00:34:29   there are maybe if you're on a boat will [TS]

00:34:32   be motoring along and then back in the [TS]

00:34:34   trees they will suddenly be this like [TS]

00:34:36   Victorian home on an acre of land and [TS]

00:34:39   you're like how the hell did that get [TS]

00:34:41   out here and it is it's one of these [TS]

00:34:45   homes from Seattle's like Harvard [TS]

00:34:48   neighborhood that was trucked away as [TS]

00:34:52   they were cutting you know cutting [TS]

00:34:54   through what would have been I guess to [TS]

00:34:58   full blocks of homes across the center [TS]

00:35:00   of the town and that's not I mean in [TS]

00:35:03   seattle was was not a town that had a [TS]

00:35:06   lot of at the time you know any [TS]

00:35:09   political influence nationally or any [TS]

00:35:12   real there wasn't any way that's Seattle [TS]

00:35:18   could even raise a fuss about and I [TS]

00:35:19   think everybody here was like sure [TS]

00:35:20   America cares about us while we're in [TS]

00:35:23   the story we get a we get a stiletto a [TS]

00:35:26   small town if I can get an interstate [TS]

00:35:28   through us [TS]

00:35:29   Wow course will do whatever you say but [TS]

00:35:31   like I mean cutting the interstates [TS]

00:35:34   through the center of Detroit cutting [TS]

00:35:36   the interstates through the center of [TS]

00:35:37   chicago i mean these were for massive [TS]

00:35:42   projects and everybody just went along [TS]

00:35:43   you know you don't have you never seen a [TS]

00:35:46   photograph of like the big protests [TS]

00:35:48   the big interstate highway protests [TS]

00:35:51   where everybody came out in droves and [TS]

00:35:53   said hell no we won't go [TS]

00:35:55   I mean you you find you get wind of the [TS]

00:35:56   idea that there might be a crate and [TS]

00:35:58   barrel built in five years and you're [TS]

00:35:59   going to 500 people there [TS]

00:36:00   yeah exactly i mean and think about [TS]

00:36:02   think about the things we protest now [TS]

00:36:05   the kind of did the kind of like little [TS]

00:36:08   development me with the the music [TS]

00:36:11   Commission just got instituted a program [TS]

00:36:14   here where we put up signs in front of [TS]

00:36:17   about five or six venues where it says [TS]

00:36:20   musician parking and it was just it was [TS]

00:36:25   just like a like an idea that the music [TS]

00:36:28   Commission had like let's just put up [TS]

00:36:30   musician parking signs so that musicians [TS]

00:36:33   who are loading and unloading their gear [TS]

00:36:35   out in front of the venue don't keep [TS]

00:36:36   getting ticketed by the city which is [TS]

00:36:39   you know been a problem the whole time [TS]

00:36:40   I've been here a problem of it not being [TS]

00:36:42   allowed or probably the police not [TS]

00:36:44   knowing that it's okay for them to be [TS]

00:36:45   there [TS]

00:36:46   well it isn't okay that's the thing like [TS]

00:36:47   all the all the venues have that they're [TS]

00:36:50   there is no special parking so anywhere [TS]

00:36:53   else you tour in America or in the world [TS]

00:36:55   you drive up to the venue and they put a [TS]

00:36:58   couple of cones out out in front of the [TS]

00:36:59   venue and you park your van there and [TS]

00:37:02   and then your van can stay there all [TS]

00:37:04   night because other cities aren't crazy [TS]

00:37:06   in florida you can live in it for two [TS]

00:37:07   years affect the the only cities that [TS]

00:37:11   you can't do that our new york where [TS]

00:37:13   they're just like happiness for anybody [TS]

00:37:16   like fuck you [TS]

00:37:17   UPS trucks keep moving while giving do [TS]

00:37:19   it for its and Seattle and I guess San [TS]

00:37:21   Francisco also has a little bit of this [TS]

00:37:23   problem but anyway we put up these these [TS]

00:37:25   musician parking signs and there was a [TS]

00:37:27   huge outcry just from black people in [TS]

00:37:31   the neighborhood who were like wait a [TS]

00:37:32   minute what where's my friend that [TS]

00:37:35   wasn't I consulted yeah and it's like [TS]

00:37:38   wow it was only like 50 years ago that [TS]

00:37:42   now that we that we were bulldozing [TS]

00:37:46   entire neighborhoods that we were [TS]

00:37:48   ripping up the city to build the [TS]

00:37:52   interstate on no further like no further [TS]

00:37:57   authority than just like Eisenhower said [TS]

00:37:59   for the Germans really have a good idea [TS]

00:38:01   what these highway [TS]

00:38:02   and then somebody connected it to the to [TS]

00:38:05   the idea that we we needed them to [TS]

00:38:08   escape in the event of a nuclear war say [TS]

00:38:12   we got the internet is that right well [TS]

00:38:15   as i understand it the DARPA program [TS]

00:38:16   that led to what we think of as the [TS]

00:38:17   internet today started out as a way to I [TS]

00:38:19   you know what I'm going to say anything [TS]

00:38:20   it's a computer math think its a math [TS]

00:38:22   that's been it started as dark as a [TS]

00:38:24   defense project that [TS]

00:38:25   yeah what became the internet but the [TS]

00:38:26   idea that the idea that that we would [TS]

00:38:29   get an alert may have just enough [TS]

00:38:31   warning to hop into Archie c rvs and get [TS]

00:38:34   out of town and all those remember [TS]

00:38:36   remember the sirens that used to set up [TS]

00:38:38   on top of phone poles [TS]

00:38:39   yeah you know they were all our Clarkson [TS]

00:38:46   yeah and then you would you you know [TS]

00:38:49   you'd grab the kids jump into the GMC RV [TS]

00:38:53   and hit these expressways and what we're [TS]

00:38:57   going to be able to empty out the city's [TS]

00:38:59   for on the on the interstate highways [TS]

00:39:02   and all the people would roam out into [TS]

00:39:04   the hall that you know hit it all get [TS]

00:39:06   out of the blast zone and and they'd [TS]

00:39:09   they'd like camp out somewhere they [TS]

00:39:11   developed a burning man type of think a [TS]

00:39:14   moment like over the over the hills from [TS]

00:39:17   the town we made it let's make an art [TS]

00:39:19   car and said somehow that that was like [TS]

00:39:24   that that fantasy was all it took to [TS]

00:39:29   galvanize like the bulldozer people and [TS]

00:39:32   the the home [TS]

00:39:34   oh sure hey we can do that you know like [TS]

00:39:37   sure that sounds that that's absolutely [TS]

00:39:40   that's a lot of concrete and sounds good [TS]

00:39:44   to me and we built this incredible thing [TS]

00:39:46   and now think think about even the [TS]

00:39:49   smallest national pro well think about [TS]

00:39:52   fucking Obamacare what a dolt what a [TS]

00:39:54   dumb no-brainer [TS]

00:39:56   you know there's not even you don't have [TS]

00:39:58   to tear down a single building to build [TS]

00:40:00   Obamacare and it's just like it's it [TS]

00:40:04   might as well be it might as well be [TS]

00:40:06   that that Obama said I'm going to come [TS]

00:40:09   into each home and take the oldest child [TS]

00:40:13   i'll be over he hit that you know you [TS]

00:40:17   know that and and and and Democrats that [TS]

00:40:21   have donated a lot of money to my [TS]

00:40:22   campaign get a little bit of lambs blood [TS]

00:40:23   on the door model tough but think about [TS]

00:40:26   what it would take and the thing is we [TS]

00:40:28   need we need it we need to build a [TS]

00:40:30   bridge to the Darien Gap we need to we [TS]

00:40:35   need to build up you know we need to [TS]

00:40:38   build like for instance a co2 a like [TS]

00:40:42   sequestering system on all the coal [TS]

00:40:45   plants right that's it that's a no [TS]

00:40:47   brainer to write all the coal-burning [TS]

00:40:49   plants they all need a CEO to sequester [TS]

00:40:52   or I don't know much about that I i know [TS]

00:40:55   that coal is not good for the [TS]

00:40:56   environment it's tough to get off of so [TS]

00:40:58   the interim solution is to mean less and [TS]

00:41:01   less emissions that the idea [TS]

00:41:03   well yeah cool we're not gonna get off [TS]

00:41:04   colon the next five years [TS]

00:41:06   we're not going to get off Cole and to [TS]

00:41:08   build a 2 and everything is like there's [TS]

00:41:11   no such thing as clean coal it's all it [TS]

00:41:13   but there it but it is possible to build [TS]

00:41:17   like us temp scrubber system that takes [TS]

00:41:21   a lot of the the garbage that gets shot [TS]

00:41:25   up into space and like captures it and [TS]

00:41:28   we can compress that we can compress [TS]

00:41:32   those noxious carbons and then re-inject [TS]

00:41:37   them back into the earth who that's one [TS]

00:41:40   thing we can do that sounds complicated [TS]

00:41:41   it's pretty complicated but not as [TS]

00:41:44   complicated as building an interstate [TS]

00:41:45   highway system [TS]

00:41:46   yeah but right now it's like each coal [TS]

00:41:49   plant looks at looks at the balance [TS]

00:41:52   books and says well that's what do we [TS]

00:41:55   get out of that like that's a big [TS]

00:41:56   investment and it doesnt it's this [TS]

00:41:59   really makes you want to read up on this [TS]

00:42:00   now because if you think about stuff [TS]

00:42:01   like you know me i guess a classic [TS]

00:42:04   example is to my head would be something [TS]

00:42:05   like the gauge of railroads or you know [TS]

00:42:08   how like how railroad tracks relate like [TS]

00:42:10   if you want the trains to be able to go [TS]

00:42:12   everywhere they all have to be on the [TS]

00:42:15   same kind of track otherwise it's going [TS]

00:42:16   to have some pretty serious problems [TS]

00:42:18   and I'm guessing that came about [TS]

00:42:20   probably because the people who owned [TS]

00:42:22   the most railway you know miles were [TS]

00:42:26   able to kind of push that through to be [TS]

00:42:28   that whatever they wanted to for the [TS]

00:42:29   trains that they they had botter however [TS]

00:42:31   that works but it's incredible to think [TS]

00:42:33   like you know and this could be farcical [TS]

00:42:35   this is like a sin and live sketch [TS]

00:42:36   honestly to think about what it would be [TS]

00:42:38   like today to try and convince Arkansas [TS]

00:42:41   Massachusetts utah and Oregon to agree [TS]

00:42:45   on like what a highway should look like [TS]

00:42:46   today [TS]

00:42:47   well yeah I mean you saw this the other [TS]

00:42:49   the other day never never tried on the [TS]

00:42:51   highway and go I don't understand this [TS]

00:42:52   highway they all work the same yeah you [TS]

00:42:55   saw the other day when I went on Twitter [TS]

00:42:57   and was like why the hell you know [TS]

00:42:58   because I i bought a new macbook air i [TS]

00:43:02   wrote a magazine article on it i saved [TS]

00:43:05   it right [TS]

00:43:10   sure you did what basis and the cloud i [TS]

00:43:13   saved it and then and then the person [TS]

00:43:15   who I wrote it for one of it [TS]

00:43:17   mmm loud i put it in an email and I sent [TS]

00:43:22   it to the first is the email in the [TS]

00:43:24   cloud will be bracketed I can't open [TS]

00:43:28   this calling your front it said when we [TS]

00:43:32   can open it I i bought a brand-new [TS]

00:43:34   macintosh computer and i wrote a thing I [TS]

00:43:38   wrote a thing on it I've done this [TS]

00:43:39   before another Macintosh's the city done [TS]

00:43:41   it and I said it to you hear anything [TS]

00:43:43   can open he's like it's in the notes in [TS]

00:43:45   a format i don't recognize and so I had [TS]

00:43:48   to go and then I realized well as a [TS]

00:43:51   pages document [TS]

00:43:52   yeah yeah and I went and I realized that [TS]

00:43:54   it automatically saves itself in a [TS]

00:43:57   format that no one else can read and you [TS]

00:44:00   can ask it to save it to save the [TS]

00:44:03   document as a word file or as a dock or [TS]

00:44:06   whatever but but its native environment [TS]

00:44:09   is to save itself in a dot gr X Y it's a [TS]

00:44:15   lot like a teenage boy its default mode [TS]

00:44:19   is to be unreadable buy anything else [TS]

00:44:20   and difficult to work with [TS]

00:44:22   yeah so and it's like this is a [TS]

00:44:23   brand-new thing that I just bought this [TS]

00:44:25   is this is the direction we're headed [TS]

00:44:27   not the direction we are coming from and [TS]

00:44:29   so I go on the internet and I'm like why [TS]

00:44:31   the fuck would end [TS]

00:44:32   anybody build a thing these days that [TS]

00:44:34   does that isn't readable by everybody [TS]

00:44:36   and I get 25 replies from people that [TS]

00:44:39   are like well why of the what why does [TS]

00:44:45   it every a gun fire the same cartridge [TS]

00:44:47   restoring your firm and you know like [TS]

00:44:52   all this all this kind of like huffy [TS]

00:44:54   puffy back pushing from people that run [TS]

00:44:58   the analogy police [TS]

00:44:59   yeah whatever exactly four minutes from [TS]

00:45:01   the people who who have grown up in a [TS]

00:45:04   world where 75 different railroad gauges [TS]

00:45:07   is what they think is a normal normal [TS]

00:45:12   way of doing business and Microsoft and [TS]

00:45:14   Google and Apple all have a different [TS]

00:45:16   gauge of railroad and somebody sent me a [TS]

00:45:19   link to a cartoon which was like every [TS]

00:45:21   time somebody says let's get a standard [TS]

00:45:23   that everybody can use all it does is [TS]

00:45:24   add one more unreadable standard to the [TS]

00:45:27   bottom of the frame and it's like that [TS]

00:45:29   of course but that is that only seems [TS]

00:45:32   like the world because it's the only [TS]

00:45:33   world you know but as you're saying [TS]

00:45:35   there were 25 different railroad gauges [TS]

00:45:38   in 1815 every single person had the [TS]

00:45:41   right term for a gauge yeah and in fact [TS]

00:45:44   until very recently like the first time [TS]

00:45:47   I went to the first time I wanted a big [TS]

00:45:50   European train trip in 1986 when you [TS]

00:45:52   cross the border from France to Spain [TS]

00:45:54   Spain was on a different gauge and they [TS]

00:45:58   use your they would drive the train into [TS]

00:46:00   a into a little a special terminal and I [TS]

00:46:05   don't know if I've told you this before [TS]

00:46:07   then even believe me but I have one here [TS]

00:46:09   they drove the train into a special sort [TS]

00:46:12   of facility and they lifted the entire [TS]

00:46:15   train off of its running gear they roll [TS]

00:46:19   the wheels out and i but yes for an [TS]

00:46:23   entire train and rolled the new wheels [TS]

00:46:25   underneath the train will never change [TS]

00:46:27   its shoes [TS]

00:46:28   yes while you're still on it oh my god [TS]

00:46:31   over the train down onto its new wheels [TS]

00:46:33   so that so that the train could continue [TS]

00:46:36   on and I did not know that that if [TS]

00:46:38   that's safe [TS]

00:46:39   I can't believe that's possible that is [TS]

00:46:41   what it used to be now it's not that way [TS]

00:46:43   anymore [TS]

00:46:44   but because and and what it required was [TS]

00:46:47   that Spain undergo this incredible [TS]

00:46:49   process of like ripping up all the [TS]

00:46:52   railroad tracks to conform to the system [TS]

00:46:54   that's for some reason for 50 years [TS]

00:46:56   beforehand throughout the fruit [TS]

00:46:58   throughout Franco's rain or whatever [TS]

00:46:59   they just had this i just decided they [TS]

00:47:02   were a different gauge but I mean if [TS]

00:47:04   you're absolutely right to make that [TS]

00:47:05   analogy there it could have been a [TS]

00:47:07   system in which every single little [TS]

00:47:11   regional rail road is operating on its [TS]

00:47:12   own any of course that is true of the [TS]

00:47:15   narrow gauge railways of like mining [TS]

00:47:18   communities and so forth that little [TS]

00:47:19   that little train that goes from Durango [TS]

00:47:21   Colorado up to gunnison or whatever is [TS]

00:47:24   is a narrow gauge train but the idea of [TS]

00:47:29   a standard it shouldn't be that it [TS]

00:47:34   shouldn't be that crazy and what it what [TS]

00:47:35   it requires is yeah the either that the [TS]

00:47:38   idea that the people will it or that [TS]

00:47:40   somebody be enough in charge that they [TS]

00:47:44   can impose it but and this is why this [TS]

00:47:47   is why i think the people this is it [TS]

00:47:50   this is the one thing about the rise of [TS]

00:47:51   China that really impresses me in that [TS]

00:47:57   they have a dictatorial system and so [TS]

00:48:00   the Chinese can impose like countrywide [TS]

00:48:06   projects and reforms and I mean and they [TS]

00:48:09   do their priorities are are all over the [TS]

00:48:12   map so it's really you know some [TS]

00:48:15   sometimes they're there countrywide [TS]

00:48:17   reforms are we're going to cut everyones [TS]

00:48:19   nipples off and the you know that and [TS]

00:48:22   it's like that seems crazy and we were [TS]

00:48:24   all like what the fuck are they doing [TS]

00:48:26   but for instance this co2 sequestering [TS]

00:48:29   of their coal plants because China is [TS]

00:48:31   making more coal pollution than anywhere [TS]

00:48:32   else in the world by by a hundred times [TS]

00:48:35   but they are actually investing in this [TS]

00:48:39   technology and they have the they have [TS]

00:48:42   the nationwide will to just if they [TS]

00:48:46   choose to just impose it and know and [TS]

00:48:50   and to whatever degree effects profits [TS]

00:48:53   or to whatever degree you know there's [TS]

00:48:54   not [TS]

00:48:55   they don't have to deal with a hundred [TS]

00:48:56   different boards of [TS]

00:48:57   directors they're not having like local [TS]

00:48:59   meetings at the ymca with free coffee to [TS]

00:49:01   talk about what we feel about this [TS]

00:49:02   stoplight well and and it's it's not [TS]

00:49:04   just that but they don't have to deal [TS]

00:49:06   with with the Koch brothers or the or [TS]

00:49:10   Donald Trump opining about it they just [TS]

00:49:14   decide like oh this is this is actually [TS]

00:49:16   the future and this is what we have to [TS]

00:49:18   do and so boom we do it and it's the [TS]

00:49:20   pits what is so messy about a democracy [TS]

00:49:22   but but but i can't i'm increasingly [TS]

00:49:27   finding less and less it in these big [TS]

00:49:31   terms less unless to love about the mess [TS]

00:49:35   of democracy when you're when you talk [TS]

00:49:38   about it in terms of these global [TS]

00:49:40   problems like this at this I guess is [TS]

00:49:43   the problem with with global warming and [TS]

00:49:48   why global warming has become a proxy [TS]

00:49:51   for the for the capitalists to end the [TS]

00:49:55   hippies to fight through is that [TS]

00:49:57   ultimately the capitalists have decided [TS]

00:50:01   that the mess of democracy works for [TS]

00:50:03   them in certain ways and the and really [TS]

00:50:07   to to make a like we built the [TS]

00:50:10   interstate highway systems and it did [TS]

00:50:12   not imperil democracy you know what I [TS]

00:50:15   mean we [TS]

00:50:17   that was something that was imposed from [TS]

00:50:18   on high it was a nationwide program [TS]

00:50:20   people made a lot of money off of it it [TS]

00:50:25   didn't we didn't come out of the [TS]

00:50:27   interstate highway building system as a [TS]

00:50:29   as any more of an old darky then we were [TS]

00:50:32   going in but but now the capitalists are [TS]

00:50:36   afraid if we if we do a similar thing [TS]

00:50:39   with it with 22 to try and make progress [TS]

00:50:44   on the global warming problem right that [TS]

00:50:48   that what that it's inevitably trending [TS]

00:50:50   toward a kind of statist like over [TS]

00:50:54   government [TS]

00:50:54   [Music] [TS]

00:50:56   because we couldn't because capitalism [TS]

00:50:58   could possibly survive one of these big [TS]

00:51:01   projects in so instead of thinking of [TS]

00:51:03   that kind of democracy as a way to put [TS]

00:51:07   our smart heads together for some [TS]

00:51:08   greater good [TS]

00:51:09   it's it's about focusing on all these [TS]

00:51:13   different voices right and this is I [TS]

00:51:16   don't help him that changing the topic [TS]

00:51:17   but it makes me think of places that [TS]

00:51:19   I've worked and just teams that I've [TS]

00:51:22   been around a nice i think especially [TS]

00:51:23   this comes up on places that end up [TS]

00:51:26   having what i would call coming maybe an [TS]

00:51:29   overabundance of caution or are [TS]

00:51:31   sometimes happens family-owned [TS]

00:51:32   businesses very conservative [TS]

00:51:34   conservative you know in terms of [TS]

00:51:36   decision-making that politics but [TS]

00:51:38   there's this thing that happens a lot of [TS]

00:51:40   the time where it helps it happens a lot [TS]

00:51:43   in computer mass culture where there [TS]

00:51:45   will be a certain kind of thing where [TS]

00:51:46   like you know regardless of the merits [TS]

00:51:49   of something but let's assume that it's [TS]

00:51:51   something that is theoretically a really [TS]

00:51:52   good idea [TS]

00:51:53   there's this thing that can happen [TS]

00:51:54   sometimes and I definitely felt this [TS]

00:51:56   like you know in college at like town [TS]

00:51:59   meetings as we used to call it kind of [TS]

00:52:01   always felt like well here's this [TS]

00:52:02   there's this idea and there's a lot of [TS]

00:52:04   energy and enthusiasm be truck between [TS]

00:52:05   amongst all these people into for trying [TS]

00:52:08   to make this good thing are causing this [TS]

00:52:10   could change to happen for example you [TS]

00:52:13   know there's a noise ordinance and we [TS]

00:52:16   want to keep having parties and we're [TS]

00:52:19   young enough to really want a loud party [TS]

00:52:20   but also old enough and mature enough to [TS]

00:52:22   understand that we have to get along [TS]

00:52:23   with the community and so we have to [TS]

00:52:25   govern ourselves in order to be able to [TS]

00:52:27   keep having parties so can we have a [TS]

00:52:29   pretty loud party less often or should [TS]

00:52:32   we do we really want to get to where [TS]

00:52:33   somebody from the community shows up [TS]

00:52:35   with a noise meter every Friday night [TS]

00:52:36   ideally we would make it so that those [TS]

00:52:38   we have a good relationship with those [TS]

00:52:40   people and and so forth but the thing is [TS]

00:52:43   it takes a certain amount of maturity [TS]

00:52:44   and getting your head on your own ass in [TS]

00:52:46   order to make something even like a loud [TS]

00:52:47   party happen a very immature for the [TS]

00:52:49   thing but it seems like in some [TS]

00:52:51   organizations and some groups left to [TS]

00:52:54   their own devices instead it becomes an [TS]

00:52:55   exercise in in like listening for the [TS]

00:52:58   one voice who gets to kill the entire [TS]

00:53:00   idea by Fiat because they dye bomb in [TS]

00:53:03   with some kind of think of the children [TS]

00:53:05   thing [TS]

00:53:06   or some kind of what about my property [TS]

00:53:08   values or whatever it is but it just it [TS]

00:53:10   seems like sometimes you know especially [TS]

00:53:12   in this increasingly melodramatic kind [TS]

00:53:13   of culture we've got it's not that [TS]

00:53:15   difficult for those really loud voices [TS]

00:53:18   to be the ones that like start to define [TS]

00:53:20   the entire debate and maybe it's always [TS]

00:53:23   been that way maybe just that [TS]

00:53:24   everybody's got a megaphone a cannon now [TS]

00:53:26   but it seems like you know even like [TS]

00:53:28   really really simple things and finally [TS]

00:53:31   on this i guess one thing I learned the [TS]

00:53:33   project manager is to the to the best of [TS]

00:53:35   my ability possible i would i would try [TS]

00:53:37   to never ask people for permission to do [TS]

00:53:39   anything [TS]

00:53:40   instead I would offer an implementation [TS]

00:53:42   solution for something that was [TS]

00:53:43   obviously a good idea which is another [TS]

00:53:45   way of saying we need to do something [TS]

00:53:47   about working with communion this noise [TS]

00:53:49   ordinance I'd be happy to set up a [TS]

00:53:50   meeting go to and then bringing my men [TS]

00:53:51   my notes when i'm done like here's a [TS]

00:53:53   great idea and I'll do the work that [TS]

00:53:55   kind of thing helps a lot but instead it [TS]

00:53:57   becomes kind of namby-pamby let's- try [TS]

00:53:59   and put out this idea and we're already [TS]

00:54:01   kind of scared to even talk about this [TS]

00:54:03   big idea and then once we do we let the [TS]

00:54:05   conversation become completely overrun [TS]

00:54:07   by some of the the wildest or loudest [TS]

00:54:10   opinions and then that puts off all the [TS]

00:54:12   same people who would ordinarily get [TS]

00:54:14   involved in that discussion which I cut [TS]

00:54:16   myself amongst a lot of the time right [TS]

00:54:19   doesn't feel like a thing I mean you [TS]

00:54:20   know obviously not everybody got a [TS]

00:54:22   square deal probably on the interstate [TS]

00:54:23   highway system but thank god we've got [TS]

00:54:24   it now [TS]

00:54:25   how many industries today like we would [TS]

00:54:27   never have existed if we didn't have a [TS]

00:54:28   highway system but you know if you let [TS]

00:54:30   one person who is again it be the one [TS]

00:54:34   who decided to knock down the entire [TS]

00:54:35   program you know with somebody do right [TS]

00:54:38   I think about this all the time that [TS]

00:54:40   that obviously there were always people [TS]

00:54:42   that stood up a town meetings and yelled [TS]

00:54:44   there were always people that had tin [TS]

00:54:46   foil inside their hats there were always [TS]

00:54:48   people that that felt like everybody was [TS]

00:54:52   out to get them but something really [TS]

00:54:55   dramatically has changed so that we [TS]

00:54:58   don't anymore [TS]

00:55:00   gavel those people down you know what I [TS]

00:55:03   mean like like in nineteen fifty people [TS]

00:55:05   stood up at town meetings and said ah [TS]

00:55:07   the room com trails of fluoride in the [TS]

00:55:11   water right and then at a certain point [TS]

00:55:13   the chairman of the committee rang his [TS]

00:55:16   gavel on the table [TS]

00:55:18   and they said let's you know let's take [TS]

00:55:21   this to the like I I think we've heard [TS]

00:55:23   all we need to hear and you know and [TS]

00:55:25   sometimes those guys got carried out of [TS]

00:55:27   the room or whatever but now every [TS]

00:55:29   single person that gets up in a town [TS]

00:55:31   meeting has got some has got dealy [TS]

00:55:34   boppers on his hat and up left and right [TS]

00:55:38   and there is no there's no more you know [TS]

00:55:43   in the threat the threat that has [TS]

00:55:45   pitched at every at every elected [TS]

00:55:47   official is that if you if you adopt [TS]

00:55:50   that kind of Imperial like we're just [TS]

00:55:52   we're just going to go ahead and move on [TS]

00:55:53   this that in the next election [TS]

00:55:56   boy you're going to hear about it you're [TS]

00:55:58   going to hear that you are you know [TS]

00:55:59   we're going to speak truth to power [TS]

00:56:01   yeah that's right and and it's the whole [TS]

00:56:03   minutes [TS]

00:56:04   its the hole I I know you hate talking [TS]

00:56:07   about the Tea Party but but you know the [TS]

00:56:10   tea party that the the analog to the tea [TS]

00:56:13   party on the left is really the whole [TS]

00:56:17   intellectual left is willing to has been [TS]

00:56:20   willing to burn down the what the the [TS]

00:56:24   part of the system that was working in [TS]

00:56:27   order to make the point about the part [TS]

00:56:30   of the system that wasn't work and when [TS]

00:56:33   you think about the idea that we had not [TS]

00:56:36   very long ago I mean there we were [TS]

00:56:39   opposed to the WTO because it seemed [TS]

00:56:42   like it was just a it was just a [TS]

00:56:43   clinton-era money-grab but I think [TS]

00:56:46   everybody of our generation has imagined [TS]

00:56:49   in one way or another a global economy [TS]

00:56:52   and a global system of government at [TS]

00:56:56   least I mean because it was Woodrow [TS]

00:56:58   Wilson's idea it was the it was the it [TS]

00:57:01   was the marshall plan it was the UH the [TS]

00:57:03   idea of the United Nations all these [TS]

00:57:05   were like we're moving in this direction [TS]

00:57:07   clearly we need an international [TS]

00:57:10   tribunal that can settle these disputes [TS]

00:57:12   we don't want to keep having awards we [TS]

00:57:15   have to be growing out of war and and so [TS]

00:57:18   we're going to develop these these large [TS]

00:57:20   systems and they were always the [TS]

00:57:22   Rockefellers and the pointy hats that [TS]

00:57:25   were like we're not going to turn over [TS]

00:57:27   American sovereignty to some United [TS]

00:57:30   Nations Organization that's [TS]

00:57:32   full of reds and frenches but in fact [TS]

00:57:36   like what is the alternative 200 years [TS]

00:57:40   from now five hundred years from now [TS]

00:57:42   seriously they're still going to be [TS]

00:57:43   there still going to be 200 little [TS]

00:57:46   countries all with different railroad [TS]

00:57:48   gauges all bickering about who gets to [TS]

00:57:51   kill minke whales and who gets to dump [TS]

00:57:54   their transmission fluid into the ocean [TS]

00:57:56   like no it isn't it is not the future [TS]

00:58:00   clearly and yet and yet in America we [TS]

00:58:06   can't even agree i mean-- in washington [TS]

00:58:08   state the the left coast of washington [TS]

00:58:11   and the right coast of Washington can't [TS]

00:58:13   even come together over what what you [TS]

00:58:17   know where to put our tax dollars the [TS]

00:58:19   people over and over in the on the [TS]

00:58:22   Palouse want to spend our tax money [TS]

00:58:24   punishing girls who have had sex with [TS]

00:58:28   their boyfriends the people on the Left [TS]

00:58:30   Coast want to legalize pot and and have [TS]

00:58:32   granola running through the the pipes [TS]

00:58:35   into our homes and so imagine like [TS]

00:58:38   trying to get people to agree like oh [TS]

00:58:40   you know what [TS]

00:58:41   like we need to cooperate with England [TS]

00:58:43   France Germany Belgium and Spain on a [TS]

00:58:46   like on a larger project of a of cutting [TS]

00:58:53   co2 emissions not by ten percent but by [TS]

00:58:55   ninety percent like we need to cooperate [TS]

00:58:58   with China and you know what China wants [TS]

00:59:00   us to make some concessions to and it's [TS]

00:59:05   not just a case where we are lecturing [TS]

00:59:06   china but they want us to make some [TS]

00:59:08   concessions to who [TS]

00:59:12   how would you how would you get the [TS]

00:59:13   American people to support a thing like [TS]

00:59:15   that you know you China's done a lot of [TS]

00:59:17   bad stuff John china is bad probably [TS]

00:59:19   shouldn't work with them and you know if [TS]

00:59:21   we let China dictate to us one thing [TS]

00:59:23   then that means pretty soon we all are [TS]

00:59:26   eating chicken feet [TS]

00:59:27   yeah and uh and they're not letting us [TS]

00:59:30   have as many babies as we wanted for [TS]

00:59:32   that's how it starts [TS]

00:59:33   that is how it starts so I mean I don't [TS]

00:59:35   you know for myself when I said that [TS]

00:59:37   while I bed and dream it's like well [TS]

00:59:40   clearly we need to work as a we need to [TS]

00:59:44   figure out a way to work as a planet [TS]

00:59:47   oh my god i hate myself i made myself [TS]

00:59:52   hurt i hate that I even said that [TS]

00:59:53   happens to me about twice a month and i [TS]

00:59:55   just want to kill myself something like [TS]

00:59:57   that [TS]

00:59:57   speaking in bumper stickers to you now [TS]

00:59:57   speaking in bumper stickers to you now [TS]

01:00:00   never did your visualize whirled peace [TS]

01:00:02   haha i'm visualizing whirled peas right [TS]

01:00:07   now [TS]

01:00:08   yeah yeah it was so I was going to ask [TS]

01:00:13   you when you think roughly plus or minus [TS]

01:00:16   like where there was weather events when [TS]

01:00:18   you think this kind of change in [TS]

01:00:19   discourse really took place but you know [TS]

01:00:22   I guess yeah and you think about that [TS]

01:00:24   for a minute but I'm just like I'm also [TS]

01:00:26   just thinking this is this is really [TS]

01:00:27   just me up in the peanut gallery looking [TS]

01:00:29   down but maybe it's just by virtue of [TS]

01:00:31   the fact that i do see stuff like social [TS]

01:00:33   media and and I just see how pervasive [TS]

01:00:35   that's become as the way that we express [TS]

01:00:37   everything and you know on the one end [TS]

01:00:39   of the spectrum you've got this feeling [TS]

01:00:41   amongst people it seems to be like if I [TS]

01:00:43   don't take a photo of this and put it up [TS]

01:00:44   it didn't actually happen there's that [TS]

01:00:46   that's starting to seem kind of like a [TS]

01:00:48   real thing like amongst a lot of people [TS]

01:00:51   and then you know at the other end [TS]

01:00:53   you've got I guess what I'm trying to [TS]

01:00:55   get at is it I'm really it is really [TS]

01:00:57   starting to feel like it's becoming [TS]

01:00:58   difficult for people to this is awful [TS]

01:01:04   but it it really honestly old guy [TS]

01:01:07   talking here it really starting to feel [TS]

01:01:09   like it's becoming least difficult for [TS]

01:01:11   me to see an important difference and I [TS]

01:01:15   guess I'll just go on a limb and say I [TS]

01:01:17   think its tip is getting difficult for [TS]

01:01:18   people to separate their idea of [TS]

01:01:20   themselves from their opinions from the [TS]

01:01:23   body politic from america's next top [TS]

01:01:25   model or whatever it is it really seems [TS]

01:01:27   like everybody is supposed to have an [TS]

01:01:29   extremely strong and deeply held [TS]

01:01:32   conviction about big issues as well as [TS]

01:01:35   things that just happened and if you [TS]

01:01:37   have no opinion or if you have a light [TS]

01:01:38   opinion or if you're open to getting [TS]

01:01:40   more information [TS]

01:01:41   you're kind of not a fully branded [TS]

01:01:42   character yet and in order to in order [TS]

01:01:45   to fulfill your personal brand online [TS]

01:01:48   and therefore consequently in your life [TS]

01:01:50   you have to come down super hard on one [TS]

01:01:52   side and then stick to it and maybe it's [TS]

01:01:55   always been that way it's just that now [TS]

01:01:57   there's so much on the wine you know [TS]

01:01:59   when you're when you're sitting there i [TS]

01:02:01   was wanting to sit there and yell at the [TS]

01:02:02   TV what President Nixon was talking and [TS]

01:02:04   it's another thing now to be to be part [TS]

01:02:06   of these these coalition's of people [TS]

01:02:08   these little flash mobs [TS]

01:02:10   the flash / lynch mobs of people who are [TS]

01:02:12   constantly looking for what what latest [TS]

01:02:16   indignity or-or-or problem they can [TS]

01:02:18   decide to rally around and just this [TS]

01:02:21   really is not that much [TS]

01:02:23   there's not that much incentive anymore [TS]

01:02:25   for somebody to just be kind of a reason [TS]

01:02:28   person who shows up and listens and says [TS]

01:02:30   things sometimes but it just I think [TS]

01:02:32   that's making it harder i know that's [TS]

01:02:34   obvious but i really i think that's a [TS]

01:02:35   bigger problem than most of us are [TS]

01:02:37   willing to admit because then each side [TS]

01:02:39   benefits from stoking those people and [TS]

01:02:41   from getting more and more and more dug [TS]

01:02:43   in on that one side and it's not just [TS]

01:02:45   doesn't filters that much incentive out [TS]

01:02:47   there to go out and try and become a [TS]

01:02:49   reason person who can figure out what [TS]

01:02:51   you're willing to give away in order to [TS]

01:02:52   make something good happen right [TS]

01:02:54   I I don't want to be too [TS]

01:02:58   Roderick on the line about it but this [TS]

01:03:02   is on the camp but well no I and and [TS]

01:03:06   this will at this will sort of i think [TS]

01:03:09   ignite you in a different way but for me [TS]

01:03:13   there was this there's this splintering [TS]

01:03:16   that started with Hagel and at nita [TS]

01:03:23   really there was there was a a [TS]

01:03:27   splintering of what of what we thought [TS]

01:03:31   of what we understood to be the Western [TS]

01:03:36   tradition and at the at Foucault the the [TS]

01:03:45   idea that we were the the idea that the [TS]

01:03:50   relationship between the that knowledge [TS]

01:03:56   and power were these things that that we [TS]

01:04:00   could get outside of and look down on [TS]

01:04:03   and see the relationships between and we [TS]

01:04:06   could decode and we could we could like [TS]

01:04:10   apprehend the systems of control [TS]

01:04:15   in a way that we could intervene [TS]

01:04:18   intellectually and-and-and up and [TS]

01:04:25   introduced into the into the into the [TS]

01:04:30   story into the story of human progress [TS]

01:04:33   that we were that we were being [TS]

01:04:38   controlled by these these larger systems [TS]

01:04:41   literary systems language systems you [TS]

01:04:45   know and that those systems were [TS]

01:04:48   tinkering ball and we could get in and [TS]

01:04:51   every every group could recognize the [TS]

01:04:56   point at which the actual language the [TS]

01:04:58   actual English language was built in [TS]

01:05:00   such a way that it disempowered them and [TS]

01:05:04   the actual way that we thought that our [TS]

01:05:07   systems that the act that systems that [TS]

01:05:10   we had always considered benign or [TS]

01:05:13   neutral that those systems were actually [TS]

01:05:16   built as control apparatus and so we [TS]

01:05:20   needed to we need to disassemble these [TS]

01:05:23   systems in order to achieve equality it [TS]

01:05:27   wasn't just a question any more of what [TS]

01:05:30   had always been the American project [TS]

01:05:32   which was equality under the law write [TS]

01:05:34   it as long as everyone is equal under [TS]

01:05:36   the law that's as good as government can [TS]

01:05:39   do and then we have to we have to work [TS]

01:05:42   out everything else but but but at a [TS]

01:05:43   certain point [TS]

01:05:45   no that wasn't true anymore because the [TS]

01:05:46   law was intrinsically unequal because [TS]

01:05:50   the language it was written it was a [TS]

01:05:52   colonial language and with with the [TS]

01:05:56   introduction of those ideas there was [TS]

01:05:59   this splintering of what we understood [TS]

01:06:02   to be the like what will that that any [TS]

01:06:06   of us could agree on a common truth and [TS]

01:06:10   with that if everybody has their own [TS]

01:06:13   truth what was unforeseen was the work [TS]

01:06:18   of by all of this was that was [TS]

01:06:20   practically you cannot live in a world [TS]

01:06:23   where everybody has their own truth [TS]

01:06:25   or or rather you can but it's what it's [TS]

01:06:27   all against all it is a war of all [TS]

01:06:29   against all if every single person has [TS]

01:06:32   the option of saying I don't like that [TS]

01:06:34   word you used because the word is in a [TS]

01:06:37   language that is that that that puts me [TS]

01:06:41   at a disadvantage and so I'm choosing my [TS]

01:06:44   own word to describe the thing and [TS]

01:06:48   ultimately that's where we are now we [TS]

01:06:50   are in no way we're living in a world [TS]

01:06:52   where every single group is the people [TS]

01:06:57   are bickering over the word to describe [TS]

01:06:59   the thing that they are talking about [TS]

01:07:01   they can't even agree that they're so [TS]

01:07:03   far from being able to agree on a [TS]

01:07:04   principle because they're arguing about [TS]

01:07:06   whether it you know what to name what to [TS]

01:07:13   name one another on anything if [TS]

01:07:15   something is a fantastic idea we might [TS]

01:07:17   not do it because we can agree on why [TS]

01:07:18   it's a good idea [TS]

01:07:19   well and that so then that follows from [TS]

01:07:21   it right then everything every [TS]

01:07:23   subsequent problem follows from this [TS]

01:07:27   this shattering of of like what we held [TS]

01:07:32   in common a common understanding and and [TS]

01:07:36   and it isn't to say that foucault and [TS]

01:07:38   Jared on all those critiques weren't [TS]

01:07:42   interesting you know and and Chomsky I [TS]

01:07:45   mean those are fascinating critiques and [TS]

01:07:49   and you know I spent many years and I [TS]

01:07:52   know you did to reading them and being [TS]

01:07:55   like repeatedly kind of blown away by [TS]

01:07:58   like oh wow heavy [TS]

01:08:00   holy cow yeah I never thought of it that [TS]

01:08:02   way like well everybody everybody should [TS]

01:08:05   be lucky enough at some point in their [TS]

01:08:06   twenties to be brutally destroyed in an [TS]

01:08:10   argument by somebody who's a a really [TS]

01:08:13   good dara dot deconstructionist yeah and [TS]

01:08:16   you end the end the conversation almost [TS]

01:08:17   sobbing because you're still confused [TS]

01:08:19   about what you don't even know you're [TS]

01:08:20   confused about it you know yeah it's [TS]

01:08:22   really it's really illuminating [TS]

01:08:23   experience that you understand how [TS]

01:08:25   important languages to how we think I [TS]

01:08:27   had those experiences multiple times and [TS]

01:08:29   I can know and I limped out of the [TS]

01:08:31   visible light weight but what about what [TS]

01:08:33   a [TS]

01:08:34   do with it yeah right i mean but i had [TS]

01:08:38   that same exact experience arguing with [TS]

01:08:40   up with a really informed Catholic about [TS]

01:08:44   uh about abortion i had this the same [TS]

01:08:48   experience in my early twenties a really [TS]

01:08:50   intelligent informed Catholic person had [TS]

01:08:53   his had the logic of his position so [TS]

01:08:57   well understood and I was approaching [TS]

01:09:00   the argument from like well I mean it's [TS]

01:09:02   clear that blah blah it's clear that the [TS]

01:09:04   woman has a right to her body but what [TS]

01:09:06   and he was coming at it from this like [TS]

01:09:08   it is human life [TS]

01:09:10   I mean his life a sacred or is it [TS]

01:09:14   garbage you know a very Socratic kind of [TS]

01:09:16   like well i mean i guess if those are [TS]

01:09:18   the choices sacred right well so if life [TS]

01:09:20   is sacred [TS]

01:09:21   you know any followed from there right [TS]

01:09:23   um but but we're for myself [TS]

01:09:29   there was there was a moment where those [TS]

01:09:33   critiques stopped being just interesting [TS]

01:09:36   intellectual like party favors [TS]

01:09:40   I like ideas that we were like [TS]

01:09:43   thought-provoking exercises in in how we [TS]

01:09:46   see and think right it is but they [TS]

01:09:49   became sometime in the eighties within [TS]

01:09:52   the university's they became the be the [TS]

01:09:56   the blueprint for us for a system for a [TS]

01:10:00   four-day weekend at least started [TS]

01:10:02   writing on the rule books and crayons [TS]

01:10:04   because anything else would be dishonest [TS]

01:10:05   exactly and we started saying like bit [TS]

01:10:08   like our project from the left is to you [TS]

01:10:11   know we were always terrified that the [TS]

01:10:13   right is like is like infiltrating [TS]

01:10:16   school boards and they're infiltrating [TS]

01:10:18   zoning commissions and they're putting [TS]

01:10:21   all their people in there who don't [TS]

01:10:23   believe in evolution and all of a sudden [TS]

01:10:26   we don't realize it until all of a [TS]

01:10:28   sudden we can't get any textbooks in [TS]

01:10:30   austin texas public schools because all [TS]

01:10:33   these school boards are like have like [TS]

01:10:36   the the right figured out that they were [TS]

01:10:38   going to colonize those areas but the [TS]

01:10:40   left was doing that [TS]

01:10:41   years and years before and sort of [TS]

01:10:44   colonizing all of the [TS]

01:10:46   academic institutions and then social [TS]

01:10:48   service institutions all the government [TS]

01:10:51   institutions were were being infiltrated [TS]

01:10:54   by people who had read these critiques [TS]

01:10:58   and saw them as a framework for making [TS]

01:11:02   public policy and so we now like every [TS]

01:11:07   every sign that was going to be posted [TS]

01:11:10   on the wall had to be in 15 different [TS]

01:11:11   languages and at and that was just that [TS]

01:11:15   was just seems like a no-brainer because [TS]

01:11:17   everybody here spoke these different [TS]

01:11:19   languages but of course the but the [TS]

01:11:21   underlying idea was that you could not [TS]

01:11:27   you could not effectively translate [TS]

01:11:29   please do not finish off this bridge you [TS]

01:11:34   couldn't really translate that it needed [TS]

01:11:37   to be in all those different languages [TS]

01:11:38   because translating it was an act of was [TS]

01:11:42   an act of oppression almost you know it [TS]

01:11:45   was a complete it's a comparative [TS]

01:11:47   literature project of governance [TS]

01:11:51   and-and-and complet is the last [TS]

01:11:55   Department you want running the state [TS]

01:11:57   and that's that [TS]

01:12:02   so they introduced that they they [TS]

01:12:04   started introducing that into like into [TS]

01:12:07   local government and then into Congress [TS]

01:12:09   throughout the eighties and nineties and [TS]

01:12:12   the the right took that they saw it and [TS]

01:12:16   they and in a way admired it and they [TS]

01:12:19   took the lead on [TS]

01:12:21   they took that lead and they said oh [TS]

01:12:22   alright well if if you know if language [TS]

01:12:26   has this power and if if everybody has a [TS]

01:12:31   relative truth and each relative truth [TS]

01:12:33   is is of equal standing then we're going [TS]

01:12:37   to start using language this way and [TS]

01:12:40   we're going to start using our relative [TS]

01:12:43   truth as a lever to to enact the [TS]

01:12:47   programs that we are vested in and [TS]

01:12:49   that's where that's where the world [TS]

01:12:50   we're living in now [TS]

01:12:52   this crazy land where where the one you [TS]

01:12:55   know where the word right everybody's [TS]

01:12:58   talking about our rights all the time [TS]

01:12:59   but you can't get five people to agree [TS]

01:13:02   what right even means like which writes [TS]

01:13:05   exactly everybody's gotta everybody's [TS]

01:13:08   got a new bill of rights right where's [TS]

01:13:11   my bill of rights of these things cost [TS]

01:13:17   thirty-five thousand dollars when they [TS]

01:13:18   came out 35,000 buy something you could [TS]

01:13:21   buy a house for 17,000 that's more than [TS]

01:13:24   our house costs in 1976 oh yeah are our [TS]

01:13:26   house cost less than a GMC RV 35 [TS]

01:13:29   thousand dollars think about that it has [TS]

01:13:31   aircraft-grade aluminum I've been fully [TS]

01:13:33   engaged in this conversation every step [TS]

01:13:35   of the way because it's fascinating to [TS]

01:13:36   me but I've also been looking at a lot [TS]

01:13:38   of photos and schematics done Johnny [TS]

01:13:42   I've i found very important and there's [TS]

01:13:45   a 23-foot ER and 26 for the 26 footer [TS]

01:13:47   has 11 different floor plans available [TS]

01:13:49   is like a lot on one very long ago where [TS]

01:13:53   the people had outfitted it in bright [TS]

01:13:56   green shag carpet and I was in fucking [TS]

01:14:01   heaven [TS]

01:14:02   it was like I walked and I walked into [TS]

01:14:03   this thing and I was eight years old it [TS]

01:14:06   was 1976 and I've never had any fears i [TS]

01:14:11   was just gonna drive around America in [TS]

01:14:13   this giant beanbag chair and I I'd you [TS]

01:14:18   know I don't even know how I don't even [TS]

01:14:19   know how it is that i haven't bought one [TS]

01:14:20   already and I've talked to a couple of [TS]

01:14:24   people and they say listen you can get [TS]

01:14:25   them for cheap out there but don't buy a [TS]

01:14:28   cheap one because it sounds like they [TS]

01:14:30   had some reliability problems when they [TS]

01:14:32   have a that's the thing anytime you [TS]

01:14:34   introduce a bunch of new technology in [TS]

01:14:36   one situation one platform you're going [TS]

01:14:38   to have some have some situations where [TS]

01:14:42   the new technology doesn't have the [TS]

01:14:44   Chinese had made this [TS]

01:14:47   the Chinese admit it wouldn't shock [TS]

01:14:48   absorbers [TS]