Roderick on the Line

Ep. 105: "Hippie Clean"


00:00:00   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:00:01   sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one [TS]

00:00:03   platform that makes it fast and easy to [TS]

00:00:05   create your own professional website [TS]

00:00:06   portfolio or online store for a free [TS]

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00:00:12   supertrain at checkout a better web [TS]

00:00:15   starts with your website as you do [TS]

00:00:18   [Music] [TS]

00:00:23   hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:28   bloop beep boop boop boop man [TS]

00:00:33   communication is complicated hurt her so [TS]

00:00:41   John what are you up to these days [TS]

00:00:43   oh you know just students and cleaning [TS]

00:00:48   around the house who I not really very [TS]

00:00:51   good at staying on top of it and then it [TS]

00:00:55   gets than the house gets dirty and then [TS]

00:00:57   it right then I really don't want to [TS]

00:00:59   deal with it and then house just keeps [TS]

00:01:00   getting dirtier and dirtier and dirtier [TS]

00:01:02   so so too it's spring cleaning day but i [TS]

00:01:06   also have to go to portland today so i [TS]

00:01:08   can't really in a blob [TS]

00:01:10   yeah you know me or her mom back and I [TS]

00:01:15   right yes [TS]

00:01:16   sheesh being a housewife is not easy [TS]

00:01:19   the grass is always greener other parts [TS]

00:01:21   of the house that you enjoy cleaning [TS]

00:01:22   interesting well you know you know the [TS]

00:01:27   problem with me is that I do not have a [TS]

00:01:29   clear delineation in my mind between [TS]

00:01:32   cleaning and organizing haha hall so I [TS]

00:01:36   meet people all the time who described [TS]

00:01:38   this so not all the time but i have i've [TS]

00:01:40   had it described to me that there are [TS]

00:01:42   people who are neat but dirty and people [TS]

00:01:46   who are clean a messy [TS]

00:01:49   hmm and I think that my instinct is on [TS]

00:01:53   the clean but messy side I don't like a [TS]

00:01:56   bunch i don't like dirt on things i want [TS]

00:01:58   you know I'm kind of a little fastidious [TS]

00:01:59   even about like scum but there's a mess [TS]

00:02:03   all over the place right and that is the [TS]

00:02:07   nature of your of your work as a [TS]

00:02:09   collector i have to imagine that's right [TS]

00:02:10   collector and organizer and a and a and [TS]

00:02:12   a BB stacker but then but then we have [TS]

00:02:16   it we have in my little plan here a term [TS]

00:02:19   called the hippie clean which is you [TS]

00:02:22   know if you're ever been to it if you've [TS]

00:02:24   ever been to the home of a married happy [TS]

00:02:28   couple like it's particularly a [TS]

00:02:30   middle-aged or late middle-aged married [TS]

00:02:33   happy couple houses is straightened but [TS]

00:02:38   if you look down by the floorboards you [TS]

00:02:39   look in the corners it's just like crime [TS]

00:02:43   of a thousand years [TS]

00:02:45   yes spiderwebs and stuff you know and [TS]

00:02:47   just like just like that kind of greasy [TS]

00:02:48   dirt that's just been it's been kind of [TS]

00:02:51   like the pressed into the floorboards [TS]

00:02:54   pressed into all the joints and and dust [TS]

00:02:57   bunnies everywhere it's a hippie clean [TS]

00:02:59   the house is straight like things are [TS]

00:03:01   organized things are you know it's not [TS]

00:03:02   like there's that there aren't soup cans [TS]

00:03:05   step out of months but it's a hippie [TS]

00:03:09   clean they have dogs in the house [TS]

00:03:11   yeah one time i was in england and i [TS]

00:03:14   stayed in a woman's house there and when [TS]

00:03:18   she had said ducks in the house up she [TS]

00:03:22   left the back door open and I was [TS]

00:03:23   sitting in the living room and like some [TS]

00:03:24   ducks walked in i guess being kind of [TS]

00:03:27   pleasant at a place i'm visiting it was [TS]

00:03:30   very it was very traditionally English [TS]

00:03:32   because they really they really prize [TS]

00:03:36   their eccentrics the Ducks were [TS]

00:03:38   embarrassed and like shanking she was [TS]

00:03:40   hidden [TS]

00:03:40   she was a classic English eccentric and [TS]

00:03:45   she left she had ducks in the house and [TS]

00:03:47   I I mean I approved right but it wasn't [TS]

00:03:50   something I was gonna have to clean so [TS]

00:03:53   anyway my house i prefer to have it be [TS]

00:03:55   be like hygienic but then stuff all over [TS]

00:03:59   the place but the problem is when i [TS]

00:04:01   start cleaning [TS]

00:04:02   I immediately start organizing uh-huh [TS]

00:04:04   and then i get off the track i get off [TS]

00:04:08   the trail because i realize i don't have [TS]

00:04:09   enough I'll folders and then i say i [TS]

00:04:13   don't want to buy file folders at the [TS]

00:04:14   office depot because they are new file [TS]

00:04:18   their modern construction and their [TS]

00:04:19   flimsy and they are no good so I need to [TS]

00:04:22   find some vintage file folders i know [TS]

00:04:24   exactly which doctor if you're lucky [TS]

00:04:26   enough to run across a box of old file [TS]

00:04:28   folders at a good will never go back [TS]

00:04:31   boy I'll tell you so then it's like well [TS]

00:04:32   I guess Mac pitches one of those you [TS]

00:04:35   know the other day I was at the goodwill [TS]

00:04:36   I found another typewriter that I had to [TS]

00:04:40   have but you know now i have like now I [TS]

00:04:43   have [TS]

00:04:44   well I'm i don't quite have a collection [TS]

00:04:46   of old typewriters but I definitely have [TS]

00:04:48   a handful [TS]

00:04:50   let's say let's say plus or minus five [TS]

00:04:54   here good for the environment John and [TS]

00:04:57   and i love this typewriter it's [TS]

00:04:58   beautiful but then I was like oh I need [TS]

00:05:00   some i'm not going to use my old paper [TS]

00:05:02   in this i need new paper to go with this [TS]

00:05:05   so I'm scanning the goodwill scanning [TS]

00:05:06   scanning can i find this beautiful blue [TS]

00:05:08   paper that was meant it's like a heavy [TS]

00:05:12   bond it was meant to be the front page [TS]

00:05:14   of a other report like it's blue kind of [TS]

00:05:18   like a little bit it's almost cardstock [TS]

00:05:20   e the entire box of it that was probably [TS]

00:05:23   fifty dollars in 1965 and it's like [TS]

00:05:27   ninety-nine cents and I said you know [TS]

00:05:30   what I'm gonna buy this I'm gonna buy [TS]

00:05:31   this and i'm just going to use it like [TS]

00:05:33   Merlin use file cards i'm going to write [TS]

00:05:34   one word on one of these beautiful [TS]

00:05:36   50-year old pieces of paper and I'm just [TS]

00:05:39   going to crumple it up and throw it out [TS]

00:05:41   the window because i can't because fuck [TS]

00:05:43   the world [TS]

00:05:43   [Music] [TS]

00:05:46   yeah the hippie clean i never heard that [TS]

00:05:47   term i like it and i am sympathetic in a [TS]

00:05:51   previous life I live with a person [TS]

00:05:54   inherit once [TS]

00:05:56   mm and we we were neither of us [TS]

00:05:59   particularly tidy people but one way [TS]

00:06:02   that we could make ourselves kind of [TS]

00:06:04   clean the house was to have a party so [TS]

00:06:06   you plan a party and then you have to [TS]

00:06:09   clean the house [TS]

00:06:09   YC right it's kind of you know like some [TS]

00:06:12   people like to make deadlines for [TS]

00:06:13   themselves and that like motivates them [TS]

00:06:14   to do stuff and this worked like at [TS]

00:06:16   least once a year we clean the house [TS]

00:06:18   because we have a party but clean the [TS]

00:06:20   house in advance of the party or you [TS]

00:06:21   clean the house after the bar no no the [TS]

00:06:23   idea was people are coming over want the [TS]

00:06:25   place to be nicely gonna clean house and [TS]

00:06:27   and like over time I mean you know [TS]

00:06:28   people change and i think things really [TS]

00:06:30   kind of deteriorated with our with our [TS]

00:06:32   feelings about the house and but there [TS]

00:06:33   was one particular party that's kind of [TS]

00:06:35   famous amongst my friends where we did [TS]

00:06:38   two things that were a little bit novel [TS]

00:06:39   one was that all of the stuff that was [TS]

00:06:43   all over the place like you know the [TS]

00:06:45   accumulation of like boxes and stuff and [TS]

00:06:48   things well do I we quickly put sheets [TS]

00:06:51   over all this things like it was an [TS]

00:06:53   English manor that we're leaving for a [TS]

00:06:55   season [TS]

00:06:55   haha but the real money shot we took all [TS]

00:06:59   of the dirty dishes and all the plates [TS]

00:07:01   all the glasses all the silverware we [TS]

00:07:03   put in a box put it in the Attic right [TS]

00:07:06   and then we didn't get it after that we [TS]

00:07:09   just left it up there o.o just set up [TS]

00:07:11   all the yeah that's right i'm stressed [TS]

00:07:14   and we're so now I kind of a perfect [TS]

00:07:16   analogy for from my life i think i'm [TS]

00:07:19   sitting here sitting right now I'm [TS]

00:07:20   looking let's see how many boxes can i [TS]

00:07:21   see i have the ic3 milk crates a like [TS]

00:07:26   four of those cardboard legal archive [TS]

00:07:29   boxes [TS]

00:07:30   whoo that's good that's a good box is a [TS]

00:07:32   costly box but it's a strongbox an [TS]

00:07:34   icebox I have a box here of of [TS]

00:07:36   forty-fives not pistols but but records [TS]

00:07:40   that's a different i have a different [TS]

00:07:43   place for about three or an insert i [TS]

00:07:45   have a bunch of like shoeboxes full of [TS]

00:07:47   stuff i'm looking around and i thought i [TS]

00:07:49   thought i was going to be able to count [TS]

00:07:51   for you the number of boxes i can see [TS]

00:07:53   from where I'm sitting that are full of [TS]

00:07:56   like projects that at one point we're [TS]

00:07:59   screwed across the floor and then got [TS]

00:08:02   all collected and put into a box for [TS]

00:08:04   later [TS]

00:08:05   I thought I was gonna be able to count [TS]

00:08:06   the number of boxes but then I realized [TS]

00:08:07   as I as I turn around you're too many [TS]

00:08:10   boxes to count John I got boxes on boxes [TS]

00:08:12   on boxes I got a box over here just full [TS]

00:08:15   of wallets that check your privilege [TS]

00:08:20   that Boggs you're like I see a box for [TS]

00:08:24   Waldo the ultimate first world problem [TS]

00:08:26   you have an entire box full of what's [TS]

00:08:29   have a box full of water i have a out [TS]

00:08:31   now here's one that I don't I really [TS]

00:08:33   don't know what to do with I have a huge [TS]

00:08:34   crate full of slides [TS]

00:08:38   ah now what do you do with that i'm sure [TS]

00:08:41   you can throw them away [TS]

00:08:43   you can't throw away i have a slide [TS]

00:08:44   projector i have carousels i could put [TS]

00:08:47   all the sly [TS]

00:08:48   I could do the thing where you sit for a [TS]

00:08:51   week and put slides and carousels and [TS]

00:08:54   put your slide projector up and watch [TS]

00:08:56   slides but then then what do you do [TS]

00:08:59   something you can I could ever there's a [TS]

00:09:00   room in my house I could have just full [TS]

00:09:02   of slides [TS]

00:09:04   yeah i know you probably are aware of [TS]

00:09:05   this but you know if you find a box that [TS]

00:09:07   looks like it's particularly good you [TS]

00:09:09   know you can send those offering them [TS]

00:09:10   scanned yeah but I mean that at what at [TS]

00:09:13   what cost [TS]

00:09:14   hmm it's not really it's not cheap to [TS]

00:09:16   have that done [TS]

00:09:17   have you ever thought of becoming [TS]

00:09:18   someone's thesis you would be i can just [TS]

00:09:22   think of probably half a dozen people [TS]

00:09:24   who are probably casting about should [TS]

00:09:26   read about social media and what about [TS]

00:09:28   Martin Bormann know what if somebody [TS]

00:09:31   were to turn you into their thesis [TS]

00:09:33   project imagine some smarty from u-dub [TS]

00:09:36   comes out there probably a young woman [TS]

00:09:39   will come out there and and just and [TS]

00:09:41   work on you like convinces him to is [TS]

00:09:45   going somewhere different than expected [TS]

00:09:46   i like that at one point recently I [TS]

00:09:50   realized that I had too many baseball [TS]

00:09:51   hats that for [TS]

00:09:54   I mean I could wear different baseball [TS]

00:09:55   hat every day for a year and there's no [TS]

00:09:59   I can't just if you put baseball hats in [TS]

00:10:02   a drawer in a box or not in a closet he [TS]

00:10:06   you don't see them you don't think about [TS]

00:10:08   him you're not like oh where's that one [TS]

00:10:10   baseball hat you know you have to kind [TS]

00:10:11   of have baseball hats out so you [TS]

00:10:13   remember them and so that you wear them [TS]

00:10:15   and I hit on this great idea which is i [TS]

00:10:19   bought some rope and I attach the rope [TS]

00:10:26   to the end of a the end of the curtain [TS]

00:10:30   rod and just let it hang down and then I [TS]

00:10:34   found some very nicely made vintage [TS]

00:10:38   clothes pins and I have closed pinned my [TS]

00:10:43   baseball hats to this rope so that on [TS]

00:10:46   either side of the window hanging from [TS]

00:10:49   each side of the curtain rod is like a [TS]

00:10:52   little little chain of baseball hats [TS]

00:10:56   that's clever and it's very and i find [TS]

00:10:59   it very appealing now i think i think [TS]

00:11:03   this is a case where if a stranger came [TS]

00:11:06   into the house the stranger might look [TS]

00:11:08   at that and say weird or say someone [TS]

00:11:13   special little bright lights different [TS]

00:11:15   this is making me very uncomfortable [TS]

00:11:17   it's like it's kind of Silence of the [TS]

00:11:19   Lambs meets somebody's grandma but I [TS]

00:11:21   can't see I can't see the world like [TS]

00:11:24   they see it now i can only see the world [TS]

00:11:26   like I see it [TS]

00:11:27   hmm and for me this like a decorative [TS]

00:11:30   element framing the windows in in like [TS]

00:11:34   chains of baseball hats is very nice [TS]

00:11:38   it's I i I'm looking at it right now and [TS]

00:11:41   I'm I'm just very proud of myself [TS]

00:11:42   this is part of it a space issue because [TS]

00:11:44   I mean like for example a typewriter it [TS]

00:11:46   takes up a lot of space you would need [TS]

00:11:47   some special shelving for that or [TS]

00:11:49   something you don't have a typewriter [TS]

00:11:50   closet this episode of rock on the line [TS]

00:11:56   is sponsored by Squarespace the only one [TS]

00:11:58   platform that makes it fast and easy to [TS]

00:12:00   create your own professional website [TS]

00:12:01   portfolio or online store [TS]

00:12:03   believe me John and I know where we [TS]

00:12:05   speak we have hosted Roderick on the [TS]

00:12:06   line with squarespace since the very [TS]

00:12:08   beginning episode 0 and they've been [TS]

00:12:10   great [TS]

00:12:11   every step of the way Squarespace makes [TS]

00:12:13   this whole process so simple they offer [TS]

00:12:15   an easy drag-and-drop interface got [TS]

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00:12:20   are responsive so they look great on [TS]

00:12:22   every device if you do get stuck [TS]

00:12:24   Squarespace offers 24 7 support through [TS]

00:12:26   dedicated teams based in New York and [TS]

00:12:28   doubling Squarespace plan started eight [TS]

00:12:30   dollars a month and include a free [TS]

00:12:31   domain name if you sign up for a year [TS]

00:12:33   which i highly recommend also every plan [TS]

00:12:35   comes with the ability to create your [TS]

00:12:36   own online store so yeah you can sell [TS]

00:12:38   the stuff you make right from your very [TS]

00:12:39   own site so whether you're a podcaster [TS]

00:12:41   musician writer photographer what have [TS]

00:12:43   you please go check out squarespace.com [TS]

00:12:45   and tell them you heard about it on [TS]

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00:12:57   thanks to squarespace for supporting rod [TS]

00:12:58   online we could not do it without the [TS]

00:13:01   court six to one of the things one of [TS]

00:13:04   the reasons that for a long time I [TS]

00:13:06   wanted to have a downtown loft one of [TS]

00:13:08   these one of these lofts with like [TS]

00:13:10   30-foot ceilings now at one point I did [TS]

00:13:13   live in a loft like that 44 46 years I [TS]

00:13:16   lived in a loft with with really high [TS]

00:13:19   ceilings this when you when you peed in [TS]

00:13:20   imbecile yeah right when I what I that [TS]

00:13:23   the lot that loft did not have a [TS]

00:13:25   bathroom [TS]

00:13:25   right let's just say that but as an [TS]

00:13:28   adult I've always kind of wanted to live [TS]

00:13:30   in a loft that was properly done that [TS]

00:13:32   had a kitchen and a bathroom and one of [TS]

00:13:34   those enormous walls was just shelves [TS]

00:13:38   all the way to the ceiling with a with a [TS]

00:13:40   ladder on wheels and on that set of [TS]

00:13:43   shelves i imagined that they would be [TS]

00:13:45   typewriters and there would be cowboy [TS]

00:13:47   boots and there would be places for LPS [TS]

00:13:50   a look at been against happy right right [TS]

00:13:54   it would be it would absolutely look [TS]

00:13:56   like a like a clicker daggers burgers [TS]

00:14:00   biggerstaff and pits could get started [TS]

00:14:03   Slappy's um and and yet all of those [TS]

00:14:07   things would not just be like a [TS]

00:14:08   tchotchkes picked out by a set designer [TS]

00:14:10   for a theme restaurant they would be [TS]

00:14:13   things that were part of my life and [TS]

00:14:15   that you know i would actually go up [TS]

00:14:17   sometimes and take that typewriter down [TS]

00:14:19   and use it i have a cursive typewriter [TS]

00:14:21   how sweet it is pretty nice but I do not [TS]

00:14:24   live in a in a lot for the giant wall [TS]

00:14:26   that looks like a Bennigan's i live in a [TS]

00:14:28   an old farmhouse and it's much harder to [TS]

00:14:32   have everything on display and not look [TS]

00:14:36   like well like a crazy person and that [TS]

00:14:38   is something I I fight against every [TS]

00:14:41   single day better just keep it in box [TS]

00:14:43   its give it the boxes stacked around [TS]

00:14:46   around the living room up in my face [TS]

00:14:50   fuck apple so come upstairs downstairs i [TS]

00:14:53   want to show you my hats now the problem [TS]

00:14:55   lately as I got it in my head that I was [TS]

00:14:58   gonna start being stuff boy is you need [TS]

00:15:01   a project I've never done it before [TS]

00:15:04   uh-huh but i but I started to feel like [TS]

00:15:06   look I've gotten rid of all the trash [TS]

00:15:08   all that's left is them is good stuff i [TS]

00:15:12   got i don't want to cut into the meat [TS]

00:15:15   and bone here but if I if I was selling [TS]

00:15:19   it in an online marketplace where people [TS]

00:15:23   could really that they were where I [TS]

00:15:26   would be appealing to a wide audience [TS]

00:15:28   that really appreciated the value of [TS]

00:15:31   some of these things you might be [TS]

00:15:33   providing somebody with the one piece [TS]

00:15:34   they needed to complete their collection [TS]

00:15:35   thank you think it's a gift [TS]

00:15:37   precisely so [TS]

00:15:39   what i did was i I went on ebay and i [TS]

00:15:42   looked and i was like i don't know i [TS]

00:15:43   don't understand how to operate this [TS]

00:15:45   this is a this this is confusing and so [TS]

00:15:48   I stopped looking at ebay but I did [TS]

00:15:50   start compiling things that i was going [TS]

00:15:53   to sell on ebay and so now right in the [TS]

00:15:55   center of my living room there's like [TS]

00:15:58   five big boxes of stuff that that I need [TS]

00:16:02   to get out of the house because if I [TS]

00:16:05   don't eventually I'm going to forget [TS]

00:16:07   what's in the boxes and I'm gonna walk [TS]

00:16:10   past them on dams and say what's in [TS]

00:16:11   those boxes and then I'm gonna look at [TS]

00:16:13   him and it's gonna seem like a treasure [TS]

00:16:15   hunt and I'm gonna pull all the stuff [TS]

00:16:18   out of the boxes and be like oh this old [TS]

00:16:21   thing [TS]

00:16:22   why was I ever getting rid of this huh [TS]

00:16:25   and then all the stuff is going to come [TS]

00:16:26   back out and it's gonna all go back into [TS]

00:16:29   circulation and that's not what i want i [TS]

00:16:32   chose some things there in some boxes [TS]

00:16:34   it's time for them to go [TS]

00:16:35   yeah it's not one simple thing that [TS]

00:16:38   you're doing here it is a part of a [TS]

00:16:40   larger thought technology time to do the [TS]

00:16:42   getting rid of it is part of it to have [TS]

00:16:44   it out of the ecosystem and that kind of [TS]

00:16:46   makes everything else that's in your [TS]

00:16:47   collection all the more valuable [TS]

00:16:49   that's right these are the things that [TS]

00:16:50   survived the colon hmm i went around [TS]

00:16:52   tonight and i dabbed a little bit of [TS]

00:16:54   lambs blood on the front door of [TS]

00:16:55   everything I had [TS]

00:16:58   guess who uses tape any man accept this [TS]

00:17:02   is what you need a master student in [TS]

00:17:04   there John somebody to come in there and [TS]

00:17:05   catalog all this on a computer right [TS]

00:17:07   somebody that's doing a thesis I don't [TS]

00:17:09   want to just get rid of this stuff i [TS]

00:17:10   also want to tell the story of it that's [TS]

00:17:12   also part of the ebay idea was that I [TS]

00:17:14   would be able to tell the story of the [TS]

00:17:16   thing on ebay and then somebody could [TS]

00:17:19   appreciate the story and by the thing [TS]

00:17:21   and say like I didn't just buy this [TS]

00:17:23   thing i also bought the story that goes [TS]

00:17:25   with it but if I had somebody that was [TS]

00:17:29   really that was getting college credit [TS]

00:17:30   for that everybody wins [TS]

00:17:33   yeah I've been attracted to the idea of [TS]

00:17:37   those services that will put stuff on [TS]

00:17:40   ebay for you because I mean and not for [TS]

00:17:43   like heirloom quality typewriters or [TS]

00:17:45   anything necessarily but you know [TS]

00:17:46   something that's like slightly more than [TS]

00:17:48   that [TS]

00:17:49   tangled USB cable and slightly less than [TS]

00:17:52   like an heirloom Underwood curse off but [TS]

00:17:55   there's that stuff in between where [TS]

00:17:56   you're like just think like you know [TS]

00:17:57   even if I don't make a lot of money off [TS]

00:18:00   of this it'll be out of here [TS]

00:18:01   I won't have to have a yard sale which [TS]

00:18:03   is incredibly undignified the worst [TS]

00:18:05   oh I every time we do that I swear I'll [TS]

00:18:08   never do it again and I think it's stuck [TS]

00:18:10   the last thing we started with stars [TS]

00:18:12   people with the width and people come up [TS]

00:18:13   and say I'll give you a dollar for this [TS]

00:18:15   a dollar-for-dollar County yard sales [TS]

00:18:17   you've been going to know you get people [TS]

00:18:20   out there I mean you know this is a [TS]

00:18:21   whole business this is a whole racket [TS]

00:18:22   people to where they come out you say [TS]

00:18:24   okay come out and 8 a.m. on saturday no [TS]

00:18:28   early birds as people there at six [TS]

00:18:30   o'clock looking in your mail slot trying [TS]

00:18:31   to figure out what you go [TS]

00:18:32   ah as they figure it's going to be USB [TS]

00:18:35   cables but but there might be like [TS]

00:18:37   pearls that we didn't notice her [TS]

00:18:39   grandfather's old omega constellation [TS]

00:18:41   yes that's watch incidents [TS]

00:18:44   yes exactly and and then they want to [TS]

00:18:46   use the bathroom the you know what I [TS]

00:18:49   mean they come in they're touching [TS]

00:18:50   everything and they don't know [TS]

00:18:51   everything they want and nickel maybe [TS]

00:18:53   and to me like that that like that the [TS]

00:18:57   coup de Gras so I having somebody come [TS]

00:18:59   in and just take all that stuff away [TS]

00:19:00   it's like calling a hauling service but [TS]

00:19:02   there's very few things like that i find [TS]

00:19:03   more fulfilling and calm Holland guy [TS]

00:19:05   hauling guy it's real simple give him a [TS]

00:19:08   hundred fifty bucks and he fills the bed [TS]

00:19:11   of a truck and he didn't care what it is [TS]

00:19:14   and I don't know where cuz he might just [TS]

00:19:15   drop it off on the next block but you [TS]

00:19:19   know what the only creepy thing about it [TS]

00:19:21   is he does look through the bags as he's [TS]

00:19:23   putting them on the structure see if he [TS]

00:19:25   wants to make sure you're not throwing [TS]

00:19:26   any pearls [TS]

00:19:27   well obviously i see i told myself it's [TS]

00:19:30   because he wants to make sure that [TS]

00:19:31   there's no paint and batteries [TS]

00:19:32   alright is a good citizen but I think [TS]

00:19:34   ultimately yeah just wants to use to [TS]

00:19:35   touch my stuff [TS]

00:19:36   the thing is that all those guys all the [TS]

00:19:38   junk guys in the band the the garbageman [TS]

00:19:40   you know they all have collections at [TS]

00:19:42   home of other people's photo albums and [TS]

00:19:46   like a like other people's homemade porn [TS]

00:19:50   sure I mean that's why you get that's [TS]

00:19:53   why you become a junkman talked about [TS]

00:19:55   this then we had a friend who worked at [TS]

00:19:57   the the drugstore and everybody who does [TS]

00:19:59   any used to be back in the day back when [TS]

00:20:01   you know go to the local [TS]

00:20:02   drugstore to get your film processed as [TS]

00:20:04   you do and everybody who worked there [TS]

00:20:07   had a book [TS]

00:20:08   oh yeah you know where they may double [TS]

00:20:10   prints of the how you kidding me [TS]

00:20:13   the terrible terrible homemade porn want [TS]

00:20:14   to keep the one to trade pictures 24 [TS]

00:20:18   exposures of the local news lady [TS]

00:20:21   yeah haha a friend of Mines dad used to [TS]

00:20:24   bring a roll a week Gail Syrians from [TS]

00:20:26   the local NBC station [TS]

00:20:28   justjust pictures of her on TV oh you're [TS]

00:20:30   kidding [TS]

00:20:31   no uh-uh [TS]

00:20:35   yuck yeah but isn't that funny though [TS]

00:20:37   because like what does that say about me [TS]

00:20:39   that when i call the junk guy and it's [TS]

00:20:40   like I want to have still have some [TS]

00:20:41   attachment to my stuff and like have it [TS]

00:20:43   be private when you get away [TS]

00:20:45   look in my bag so that's what I trash [TS]

00:20:47   that's one of the reasons that I don't [TS]

00:20:49   go to yard sales because over the years [TS]

00:20:51   you know you go to yard sales and it [TS]

00:20:53   seems like it seems like all that's for [TS]

00:20:57   sale in those things are like supportive [TS]

00:20:59   undergarments and you know what it'd be [TS]

00:21:02   like the foundation where the recently [TS]

00:21:05   deceased yeah like you're poking through [TS]

00:21:07   it and I feel like like she eats selling [TS]

00:21:10   sheet since no nose no stick is long [TS]

00:21:13   enough to get me far enough away from [TS]

00:21:14   this stuff [TS]

00:21:15   poke it's just like Oh what is that is [TS]

00:21:17   that an ankle brace is it cut all my can [TS]

00:21:20   add hot water bottle he sells the stuff [TS]

00:21:23   that's an orthopedic piggy bank who buys [TS]

00:21:26   it like no thanks [TS]

00:21:28   so I stay away from that you know that [TS]

00:21:30   people ask me all the time like to go to [TS]

00:21:32   estate sales [TS]

00:21:33   it's so depressing do I want to do I [TS]

00:21:36   want to line up and fight like like [TS]

00:21:39   brassy women with big round glasses for [TS]

00:21:43   beanie babies [TS]

00:21:44   no I all of this is beneath my dignity [TS]

00:21:48   I'm not wanted to see his children sit [TS]

00:21:50   around looking at their watch [TS]

00:21:51   yeah I don't want to paw through [TS]

00:21:52   somebody's house like I don't care about [TS]

00:21:54   their this weird part about an estate [TS]

00:21:56   sale we did that with my grandmother [TS]

00:21:57   passed away in 1987 and I'm so glad I [TS]

00:22:00   wasn't there but we have the end and if [TS]

00:22:02   you've been through this process with [TS]

00:22:03   people but sure you have you had lots of [TS]

00:22:05   people in your family [TS]

00:22:06   I don't know how it goes with you but [TS]

00:22:07   like you go through you go and pick out [TS]

00:22:09   all the stuff you want and the first [TS]

00:22:11   time you do one of these dead relative [TS]

00:22:13   things eat you way over x and y [TS]

00:22:15   I ended up with all this like cheap [TS]

00:22:17   furniture from the forties that I just [TS]

00:22:19   diagonal is for it it was in James I [TS]

00:22:22   can't we can't get rid of this [TS]

00:22:23   oh my god that goes away pretty well [TS]

00:22:26   after about four hours [TS]

00:22:28   photo album blom photo blog but like [TS]

00:22:32   who's gonna hold all this stuff but then [TS]

00:22:34   you write to come to the point that [TS]

00:22:35   freaks me out that is how it's like a [TS]

00:22:37   little it's like a dead person museum [TS]

00:22:40   for a day and everybody comes to [TS]

00:22:41   everything all the silverware is like [TS]

00:22:43   it's not fancy is like still in the [TS]

00:22:44   drawers [TS]

00:22:45   I yeah I mean it's real creepy wasn't [TS]

00:22:50   going to like pick out which foundation [TS]

00:22:51   where you want like right out of their [TS]

00:22:52   drawers [TS]

00:22:53   yeah no no i mean the the the amazing [TS]

00:22:58   ones that I've been two are like these [TS]

00:23:00   ones where no grandad collected swords [TS]

00:23:04   ok I'll go look to this guy's sword [TS]

00:23:07   collection but but just like this was [TS]

00:23:11   grandma and grandpa's house and they [TS]

00:23:13   never throw anything away [TS]

00:23:14   come and we've now put price tags on [TS]

00:23:17   everything like sorry i would much [TS]

00:23:21   rather go to the goodwill where the last [TS]

00:23:24   ultimate drags of that sale finally got [TS]

00:23:28   dumped off and somebody in a smock [TS]

00:23:31   sorted it and and put a colored tag on [TS]

00:23:35   it and it sat on the shelves and was [TS]

00:23:37   touched by 1000 people much rather have [TS]

00:23:42   that experience like that I like that [TS]

00:23:43   section i'm into goodwill in years but [TS]

00:23:45   used to be is to go a lot to a lot of [TS]

00:23:47   you know three stores run by charities [TS]

00:23:49   and they're always be one section of [TS]

00:23:51   very large section of wooden souvenirs [TS]

00:23:56   that people bought on vacation so you [TS]

00:23:58   can look a little coconut guy or [TS]

00:23:59   something with googly eyes and hold pens [TS]

00:24:01   it's strange to me that they would [TS]

00:24:03   dedicate floor space to that stuff or [TS]

00:24:06   something made out of popsicle sticks or [TS]

00:24:07   something like that [TS]

00:24:08   yeah right where where it's like a [TS]

00:24:09   souvenir but and it's only value is as a [TS]

00:24:13   souvenir but experience that you had [TS]

00:24:15   firsthand and yet people are buying them [TS]

00:24:18   secondhand like it's a garbage thing it [TS]

00:24:22   was garbage when they bought it but at [TS]

00:24:24   least they could remember that time they [TS]

00:24:25   took a vacation dsm [TS]

00:24:27   right well and increasingly now one of [TS]

00:24:30   the things that happened a few years ago [TS]

00:24:32   and i think it was exacerbated when the [TS]

00:24:34   economy crashed was that a lot of people [TS]

00:24:38   started shopping a good wills a lot of [TS]

00:24:42   lot of normals that never would that [TS]

00:24:44   that would have thought it was kind of [TS]

00:24:46   too low class started going and then of [TS]

00:24:51   course the collect the collector side of [TS]

00:24:53   the equation just keeps growing and [TS]

00:24:54   growing and growing and so Goodwill's [TS]

00:24:57   started well they all bumped up their [TS]

00:25:00   prices about six or seven years ago so [TS]

00:25:02   thing that had four years have been a [TS]

00:25:04   dollar ninety-nine all of a sudden was [TS]

00:25:06   1999 right and it took a there was a [TS]

00:25:09   period of adjustment when I was like I [TS]

00:25:11   will never pay 1999 for this party [TS]

00:25:13   started Washington and pressing them [TS]

00:25:14   selling the good stuff to hipsters in [TS]

00:25:16   New York and not you [TS]

00:25:18   that's the other thing they all open [TS]

00:25:19   this little store within a store where [TS]

00:25:23   they sell the good stuff right and I [TS]

00:25:27   love going into that just because it's a [TS]

00:25:29   glimpse behind the curtain into people's [TS]

00:25:30   minds of first of all what is good stuff [TS]

00:25:35   what is valuable and so much of it is [TS]

00:25:38   this stuff that you're talking about the [TS]

00:25:39   hot the slightly higher grade of like [TS]

00:25:41   collectible commemorative plates [TS]

00:25:45   Bicentennial stuff you know like like [TS]

00:25:49   that wasn't much of that is rare [TS]

00:25:52   anybody who anybody who ever goes to [TS]

00:25:55   Germany has to buy a Stein and then they [TS]

00:25:59   bring the stein home and they realize [TS]

00:26:00   that a Stein is an inefficient way of [TS]

00:26:03   drinking a beverage [TS]

00:26:06   you don't need a lid because we've [TS]

00:26:09   conquered the fly problem for the most [TS]

00:26:11   part or whatever the fuck what we'll do [TS]

00:26:12   whatever reason a Stein has a lid [TS]

00:26:16   it's not it's not handy anymore so the [TS]

00:26:18   stein ends up at the thrift store a [TS]

00:26:21   thrift store people think oh this is [TS]

00:26:22   this is a couple to live this is nice [TS]

00:26:24   and they put it in the special area so I [TS]

00:26:28   don't do that special area I'm not even [TS]

00:26:30   looking for I don't I definitely do not [TS]

00:26:31   expect to find granddad's omega [TS]

00:26:34   constellation we'ii certainly I mean [TS]

00:26:36   just in the times I've gone the last [TS]

00:26:37   dozen years [TS]

00:26:39   certainly don't find those paydays like [TS]

00:26:41   you used to [TS]

00:26:42   we could go like whoa this is somebody's [TS]

00:26:45   whole like pretty cool record collection [TS]

00:26:47   is here is right for you knowing oh my [TS]

00:26:49   gosh they have all these like Motown 45 [TS]

00:26:51   or something like that you just don't [TS]

00:26:52   see I don't think you see that anymore [TS]

00:26:54   you don't you have to have the really [TS]

00:26:56   Ratchet back what youth what you think [TS]

00:27:00   is a big score you know in the old days [TS]

00:27:03   I remember [TS]

00:27:04   yeah right you go in and you'd be like [TS]

00:27:06   oh there's all these different sixties [TS]

00:27:09   Levi's in here that's blue folder covers [TS]

00:27:12   i'm only gonna get the sixties Levi's [TS]

00:27:14   that don't have any holes in the knees [TS]

00:27:16   you know every one of those pairs of [TS]

00:27:17   jeans is worth 20 grand now and at the [TS]

00:27:20   time I was like are now these leave all [TS]

00:27:21   this got an oil stain on the cuff and [TS]

00:27:25   yeah now exactly it's like i found the [TS]

00:27:27   blue paper I this is like look at these [TS]

00:27:30   stickers i used to buy vintage office [TS]

00:27:32   supplies ever any time that I saw like a [TS]

00:27:34   bunch of something cool like it just bc [TS]

00:27:36   like how the world used to be and [TS]

00:27:39   offices and you know those things those [TS]

00:27:40   are probably i'm thinking of like large [TS]

00:27:42   like medical office file folders that [TS]

00:27:45   way like a couple ounces apiece like big [TS]

00:27:48   heavy things that were meant to be in [TS]

00:27:50   heavy cabinets with heavy information [TS]

00:27:52   about heavy cancers and like and you can [TS]

00:27:54   just use gobble that stuff up your car [TS]

00:27:56   with it i used to work at a at a stock [TS]

00:27:59   brokerage and the the brokerage had two [TS]

00:28:04   floors in an office building downtown [TS]

00:28:07   and then there were another two floors [TS]

00:28:11   somewhere kind of high up in the [TS]

00:28:15   building that were just given over to [TS]

00:28:17   those cardboard boxes full of heavy [TS]

00:28:21   files and i would get set up there all [TS]

00:28:26   the time like take take this you know [TS]

00:28:28   take this palette of of files up and up [TS]

00:28:32   to deep storage and you think about mean [TS]

00:28:36   imagining all the hoarders who have an [TS]

00:28:38   attic full of unwashed dishes that they [TS]

00:28:42   took up there during a party and never [TS]

00:28:44   got down [TS]

00:28:45   but now think about all the office all [TS]

00:28:48   the companies all the law firms and [TS]

00:28:50   stock brokerages and banks that are more [TS]

00:28:53   than a hundred years old over that have [TS]

00:28:56   those that have that space already [TS]

00:29:00   earmarked for that and no one has ever [TS]

00:29:03   said why are we paying to heat this [TS]

00:29:07   warehouse full of paper just like all [TS]

00:29:11   like copies of correspondence right [TS]

00:29:13   track triplicate copies of reception [TS]

00:29:16   thing that's not talking about stuff [TS]

00:29:17   like for financial records that you have [TS]

00:29:18   to keep that stuff you know what I mean [TS]

00:29:20   just like that you always had a copy of [TS]

00:29:21   everything because that's just had [TS]

00:29:22   that's what you had to do receipts right [TS]

00:29:24   yeah the while you were out the little [TS]

00:29:28   pink while you were out and so you know [TS]

00:29:31   you think about like this one this one [TS]

00:29:33   office building and the more I think [TS]

00:29:34   about it the brokerage was on like the [TS]

00:29:38   tenth and eleventh floor but the [TS]

00:29:41   archives were up on the 26th 27th floor [TS]

00:29:45   and the archives had a better view [TS]

00:29:48   well that's what I'm not that's what I'm [TS]

00:29:49   saying that is counter-intuitive right [TS]

00:29:51   the higher floors the better one in an [TS]

00:29:54   office building isn't it i think so i [TS]

00:29:56   don't understand that at all but i would [TS]

00:29:57   go up there you know that the blinds [TS]

00:29:59   were always closed it was just it was [TS]

00:30:00   just a row after row of these shelves of [TS]

00:30:05   hard copies and presumably most of those [TS]

00:30:08   most offices now have transitioned to [TS]

00:30:12   computers so these are just the dead [TS]

00:30:15   stacks that that will stay there until [TS]

00:30:19   well for all eternity probably in some [TS]

00:30:22   cases [TS]

00:30:23   wow yeah it's it's it's amazing how [TS]

00:30:28   quickly all that has changed and it's [TS]

00:30:30   just and you know stuff like you think [TS]

00:30:32   about stuff today like with like HIPAA [TS]

00:30:33   laws and stuff around you know the least [TS]

00:30:36   theoretically around things like privacy [TS]

00:30:38   and things like that [TS]

00:30:39   i remember when i was in college when [TS]

00:30:43   you get your student ID card i think i [TS]

00:30:46   think when i started you know in the [TS]

00:30:48   mid-eighties it was the last year of of [TS]

00:30:50   a few things being done a certain way [TS]

00:30:52   but one of the things was I don't like [TS]

00:30:54   this for you but your student ID number [TS]

00:30:57   was your social security number [TS]

00:30:58   hmm everybody in Florida who went to [TS]

00:31:01   college that was your student ID number [TS]

00:31:02   and so your student ID that you used to [TS]

00:31:06   check out library books you know you [TS]

00:31:07   have this little bar code each time you [TS]

00:31:08   register on the back now that was a [TS]

00:31:10   really big deal we got barcodes but you [TS]

00:31:12   know we still had when I worked in the [TS]

00:31:14   library in 1986-87 we still had cards in [TS]

00:31:17   the books you can see everybody would [TS]

00:31:19   ever checked out the books if you wanted [TS]

00:31:21   to if you wanted to like check something [TS]

00:31:22   out you'd leave your student ID with [TS]

00:31:24   your social security number on it [TS]

00:31:25   sitting around i mean in every document [TS]

00:31:27   you ever received from the college has [TS]

00:31:29   your social security number on it right [TS]

00:31:31   i mean it's it's bad i mean III must [TS]

00:31:34   have blocked this out but then I won't [TS]

00:31:35   have to deal with a bunch of old stuff [TS]

00:31:37   of mine and you know getting rid of it [TS]

00:31:38   and I was amazed at like how many [TS]

00:31:42   hundreds and hundreds like every [TS]

00:31:43   evaluation i never gotten are you know [TS]

00:31:45   and obviously things like financial aid [TS]

00:31:47   its security number one every single [TS]

00:31:50   piece of paper [TS]

00:31:51   what was it like that for you if you'd [TS]

00:31:54   like to say i'm trying to remember you [TS]

00:31:56   know I we used to put our social [TS]

00:31:58   security number down as primary [TS]

00:32:00   identification for a lot of things [TS]

00:32:02   absolutely i mean it was it was it it [TS]

00:32:04   may on and if it wasn't such a banana [TS]

00:32:07   system where so much was riding on that [TS]

00:32:09   one string of digits it would make sense [TS]

00:32:11   yeah you know if it just became like an [TS]

00:32:14   easy way to make you into a number in a [TS]

00:32:18   way that was public interested in what [TS]

00:32:20   that's not what it was I mean yeah right [TS]

00:32:22   it was well but you you know there [TS]

00:32:24   weren't although there were all those [TS]

00:32:25   ways to exploit it before to buy my [TS]

00:32:28   favorite thing about about that ladies [TS]

00:32:32   mid mid to late eighties period in [TS]

00:32:34   colleges was it was the last when I [TS]

00:32:39   first when i first got to college all [TS]

00:32:42   the seniors we're talking about the era [TS]

00:32:46   right before they started college where [TS]

00:32:49   there were where there was a bar in the [TS]

00:32:52   student center right like that era that [TS]

00:32:56   we just missed right that ended in like [TS]

00:33:00   80 to where it was where college was [TS]

00:33:05   really something you know where you [TS]

00:33:08   could wear you had [TS]

00:33:10   keg parties that were sponsored by the [TS]

00:33:12   college and stuff you know nobody no [TS]

00:33:14   college has ever been sued yet because [TS]

00:33:17   somebody drove a truck through the [TS]

00:33:18   dining hall and it was it was like still [TS]

00:33:22   the Wild West End and we were the first [TS]

00:33:24   generation after that first wave of like [TS]

00:33:29   well wait a minute we better close down [TS]

00:33:32   the bar is in the you know that's like [TS]

00:33:36   on campus but but in retrospect it was [TS]

00:33:41   still the Wild West like the first [TS]

00:33:45   couple of years that I hit checked [TS]

00:33:46   around the country i could go into any [TS]

00:33:49   college walk into walk right into any [TS]

00:33:52   dorm and in most cases like walk kind of [TS]

00:34:00   right into the dining hall and help [TS]

00:34:03   myself or in those cases where the [TS]

00:34:06   dining hall required that you have a [TS]

00:34:07   card it was like it was eat it [TS]

00:34:12   borrow somebody's student ID flash the [TS]

00:34:14   card and then hand it back to them you [TS]

00:34:16   know through the turnstile and then they [TS]

00:34:18   would flash it and you know there was no [TS]

00:34:22   security of any kind on campus and it [TS]

00:34:24   was all done in this like sign in sign [TS]

00:34:27   in and you take what you want like [TS]

00:34:31   basically you could write whatever you [TS]

00:34:33   could write any social security number [TS]

00:34:35   right [TS]

00:34:36   it wasn't like there's likely scan the [TS]

00:34:38   card and wait to see if it was valid [TS]

00:34:41   valid right and so I mean at the time I [TS]

00:34:45   remember thinking god this sucks [TS]

00:34:49   look why can't it be like it used to be [TS]

00:34:51   when you know just like just open just [TS]

00:34:54   open country but now of course i don't [TS]

00:34:59   mean you can't even you probably can't [TS]

00:35:01   get in the building at certain times a [TS]

00:35:03   day at the University of Washington you [TS]

00:35:04   can't even Park they've really have [TS]

00:35:07   instituted this whole thing where it's [TS]

00:35:08   like oh yeah this used to be parking but [TS]

00:35:10   it's not very first saw this still seems [TS]

00:35:12   so I understand this but it still seems [TS]

00:35:14   so where is probably Manhattan [TS]

00:35:16   it was the first time I ever saw one of [TS]

00:35:18   those a ATM where you have to slide your [TS]

00:35:20   card to even get the door to open [TS]

00:35:22   so I'll go into a little that seems so [TS]

00:35:23   strange i know i think i think you're [TS]

00:35:26   right i think a lot of stuff happened [TS]

00:35:28   and you know this is probably just basic [TS]

00:35:29   self-absorption on my part thinking I [TS]

00:35:31   was there when stuff change but i [TS]

00:35:32   remember you remember that members [TS]

00:35:35   during the early Reagan years they a lot [TS]

00:35:38   federal law was created that said [TS]

00:35:40   everybody needs to raise the drinking [TS]

00:35:42   age to 21 right it was 19 and Idaho when [TS]

00:35:46   i started at college and because if you [TS]

00:35:48   didn't raise a 21 by something like I [TS]

00:35:51   think 1985 or so this becomes important [TS]

00:35:54   in a minute you would no longer get [TS]

00:35:56   federal highway funds federal highway [TS]

00:35:57   funds it's a big deal so everybody [TS]

00:36:00   change the trick me to 21 but if you [TS]

00:36:02   were in this certain windows 19 in [TS]

00:36:04   florida and again if you were in this [TS]

00:36:06   certain window grandfather your [TS]

00:36:08   grandfather i missed it by I think like [TS]

00:36:10   three months o.o all my friends and hung [TS]

00:36:13   out with kids who just graduated and so [TS]

00:36:16   you know i was always I was always [TS]

00:36:18   behind until i turned twenty-one but I [TS]

00:36:20   think you're right i think it used to be [TS]

00:36:21   I mean can you imagine being the place [TS]

00:36:23   where the drinking age is 18 came around [TS]

00:36:25   that ok so so when I first when i first [TS]

00:36:28   went around America it was the summer of [TS]

00:36:31   86 and in Colorado that's the supper at [TS]

00:36:35   the National is 18 and too young to [TS]

00:36:38   drink [TS]

00:36:38   yeah summer of 86 right i was i was [TS]

00:36:40   still 17 but but uh but you know was [TS]

00:36:43   like algae sorry 19-inch and drink in [TS]

00:36:47   Colorado you could drink 32 beer near [TS]

00:36:50   that's right you could you could go and [TS]

00:36:52   get busy good liquor stores and they [TS]

00:36:54   were like separate sections for this [TS]

00:36:57   half beer that you that you could get if [TS]

00:37:00   you were 18 which now seems like [TS]

00:37:02   quadruple crazy to me and there were [TS]

00:37:05   there were there was another state that [TS]

00:37:07   you could drink three ok but you can [TS]

00:37:08   only buy filtered cigarettes haha but [TS]

00:37:12   Idaho was still 19 and you and there was [TS]

00:37:15   a grandfather clause but I mean yeah I [TS]

00:37:19   was like I was out I was out of the [TS]

00:37:22   running of that but you know what i was [TS]

00:37:24   in 1986 marijuana was still legal in a [TS]

00:37:26   lot [TS]

00:37:27   askah remember two lies right now that's [TS]

00:37:30   insane marijuana was legal [TS]

00:37:34   uh all through the seventies and [TS]

00:37:38   eighties in Alaska they legalized [TS]

00:37:41   anything you know four ounces unless at [TS]

00:37:46   some point and they just it was it just [TS]

00:37:49   felt like a it never really got very [TS]

00:37:53   much national publicity but it was just [TS]

00:37:56   a kind of a typical Alaskan move like [TS]

00:37:58   this isn't this is beneath our dignity [TS]

00:37:59   we have bigger problems and it's just an [TS]

00:38:02   enforcement thing and we're just not [TS]

00:38:03   gonna bust you for less than 4 ounces [TS]

00:38:05   and even though is a federal law [TS]

00:38:08   well it wasn't in the well I'm not [TS]

00:38:12   exactly sure how they manipulated about [TS]

00:38:14   how it all works with you but all the [TS]

00:38:17   way through high school I mean it was [TS]

00:38:20   kind of like it is in Amsterdam where [TS]

00:38:22   you know technically it's legal but but [TS]

00:38:25   Peter don't push it don't push anybody's [TS]

00:38:27   buttons don't wave it under anybody's [TS]

00:38:29   nose and at a certain at a certain point [TS]

00:38:35   in the eighties well I remember exactly [TS]

00:38:39   because my dad took me to the Rotary [TS]

00:38:45   Club meeting where the Alaska State [TS]

00:38:49   Troopers spokesman was making the case [TS]

00:38:53   to the rotary why we should criminalize [TS]

00:38:58   marijuana and it was a case he felt like [TS]

00:39:02   he needed to come to the Rotary Club and [TS]

00:39:04   make this case to the people and he gave [TS]

00:39:06   a whole presentation and dad for your [TS]

00:39:08   dad used to take me to rotary club [TS]

00:39:09   meetings all the time I think largely he [TS]

00:39:12   would do it just to piss off the other [TS]

00:39:13   rotor rotor Arians because nobody else [TS]

00:39:16   ever brought their teenage son i'm not [TS]

00:39:19   sure what he there at home polishing the [TS]

00:39:21   bolo ties it was this was just one of [TS]

00:39:23   those things where he was just like [TS]

00:39:24   course I bring my son he's a he's gonna [TS]

00:39:29   wonder he's gonna run this town but so [TS]

00:39:32   I'm sitting in this in this Rotary Club [TS]

00:39:33   meeting and the guy gets up and he's [TS]

00:39:35   like listen it was it was also the [TS]

00:39:39   criminalization of three [TS]

00:39:40   criminalisation of pot in Alaska was [TS]

00:39:42   also tied to fight federal highway funds [TS]

00:39:44   in some way although we didn't have this [TS]

00:39:47   is the other thing we didn't have a [TS]

00:39:50   federal highway because there was no [TS]

00:39:53   there's no interstate the last take that [TS]

00:39:56   Obama right so it was all state highways [TS]

00:39:59   but the but the you know the feds were [TS]

00:40:02   and oh and the other thing of course is [TS]

00:40:03   that the oil money in Alaska means that [TS]

00:40:05   we don't need federal money for stuff [TS]

00:40:09   like that you know they they instituted [TS]

00:40:11   will they be instituted a point one [TS]

00:40:12   percent tax on all the money that came [TS]

00:40:14   out of the Prudhoe Bay and by 1980 the [TS]

00:40:18   state of Alaska had a surplus of like 40 [TS]

00:40:20   billion or something like that I mean [TS]

00:40:22   that the naked that's why they started [TS]

00:40:24   doing that permanent fund I mean they [TS]

00:40:25   could hand every Alaskan a one ounce bar [TS]

00:40:28   of gold every time they fill up with gas [TS]

00:40:31   at the service station and the state of [TS]

00:40:33   Alaska but it's never run out of money [TS]

00:40:35   back but so this guy get something and [TS]

00:40:38   end up then the thrust of his argument [TS]

00:40:40   was by by having marijuana legal here in [TS]

00:40:47   the state of Alaska we are sending a [TS]

00:40:49   message to kids that we do not care [TS]

00:40:53   about them and that drugs are fine and [TS]

00:40:57   that marijuana is a gateway drug and [TS]

00:40:59   that they are going to start using pot [TS]

00:41:01   because they because it's legal here and [TS]

00:41:02   then they're going to become heroin [TS]

00:41:04   addicts and said they're going to be sex [TS]

00:41:06   workers and then there then they're [TS]

00:41:08   going to end up in like a Bombay opium [TS]

00:41:10   den giving blowjobs and this is an [TS]

00:41:16   inevitable course of action and as this [TS]

00:41:18   guy is giving this speech all around the [TS]

00:41:19   the the the sheraton conference center [TS]

00:41:23   where the where these Rotarian for [TS]

00:41:25   setting all around i can hear our armor [TS]

00:41:27   remember forever armor like the room [TS]

00:41:32   really agrees with this guy and a lot of [TS]

00:41:36   like accenting moaning from old men [TS]

00:41:40   yeah George that's right sounds were [TS]

00:41:42   perfectly reasonable and it was the you [TS]

00:41:44   know the height of the Reagan years I [TS]

00:41:46   remember sitting there with this likes [TS]

00:41:48   look on my face like no way man [TS]

00:41:51   no way will never happen you never get [TS]

00:41:54   it that's not the Alaska way man [TS]

00:41:56   unicare pots legal hear me and I don't [TS]

00:42:00   even know if I I'd probably smoked pot [TS]

00:42:01   like four times by that [TS]

00:42:03   yeah but let me just you know principal [TS]

00:42:05   and then it was put up was one of those [TS]

00:42:08   was one of those things where I don't [TS]

00:42:11   think that they had enough votes to put [TS]

00:42:13   it on the ballot but they put it on the [TS]

00:42:14   ballot anyway and I don't they probably [TS]

00:42:17   didn't have enough votes to pass by the [TS]

00:42:19   past anyway and all of a sudden pot was [TS]

00:42:21   a pot was illegal in Alaska and it [TS]

00:42:24   remains illegal there even now that it [TS]

00:42:27   is legal in Washington which is a which [TS]

00:42:29   i find is a personal affront kind of [TS]

00:42:34   want to ask you about that what the pot [TS]

00:42:36   legal partner in Washington [TS]

00:42:38   yeah I wonder how that's going well it's [TS]

00:42:42   I mean it's going great [TS]

00:42:44   I i was surprised I'm surprised when I [TS]

00:42:48   when I tweeted about it not very long [TS]

00:42:50   ago the number of people who really had [TS]

00:42:53   never tried pot because the because the [TS]

00:42:56   the fact that it was illegal inhibited [TS]

00:42:58   them really it was an astonishing not [TS]

00:43:01   because I i sent some tweet out saying [TS]

00:43:03   who in the world didn't try pot just [TS]

00:43:07   because it was illegal that's an if you [TS]

00:43:10   wanted to tripod it wasn't the barrier [TS]

00:43:13   to entry was not that high but I got a [TS]

00:43:16   ton of replies from all over the world [TS]

00:43:18   of people say like well no I didn't try [TS]

00:43:20   because it's illegal and also it makes [TS]

00:43:23   sense it's illegal [TS]

00:43:24   the only people that have access to it [TS]

00:43:26   are criminals and drug people that is [TS]

00:43:29   fascinating and I didn't want to deal [TS]

00:43:31   with criminals and drug people so I've [TS]

00:43:33   never tried it but now that it's legal [TS]

00:43:35   maybe i will and i was like really [TS]

00:43:38   fascinated by it because that's not even [TS]

00:43:44   probably a representative sample of the [TS]

00:43:45   people in the world that's just people [TS]

00:43:47   that follow me on Twitter or who are who [TS]

00:43:49   are I mean definitely a lot of nerds but [TS]

00:43:52   like not that they're not this the [TS]

00:43:55   squares there at least they're on [TS]

00:43:57   Twitter [TS]

00:43:58   I mean there are tons and tons and tons [TS]

00:44:00   of squares out there that are that who [TS]

00:44:03   knows maybe the fact that pot is legal [TS]

00:44:05   now they're like maybe I should give [TS]

00:44:06   this part of try [TS]

00:44:07   I mean that whole idea that the the [TS]

00:44:10   legality or illegality of that thing [TS]

00:44:12   would that that now that it's been made [TS]

00:44:17   legal again people would say oh well it [TS]

00:44:20   must be safe right [TS]

00:44:22   it's just crazy to me but in any case [TS]

00:44:24   there are pot stores now they're already [TS]

00:44:29   were pot stores opening all over the [TS]

00:44:32   place because of that medical marijuana [TS]

00:44:33   thing but they were those bullshit [TS]

00:44:37   dispensaries with the green cross that [TS]

00:44:40   are made to look like a pharmacy haha [TS]

00:44:44   that I haha that I just I find it so [TS]

00:44:48   insulting like let's just call a spade a [TS]

00:44:50   spade parties to get stoned if you have [TS]

00:44:53   glaucoma or you know or stomach cancer [TS]

00:44:59   by all means get pot and I don't for a [TS]

00:45:02   second like the Grinch but when you say [TS]

00:45:05   that people act like you're telling [TS]

00:45:07   little kids that Santa Claus isn't real [TS]

00:45:10   you know you something could be a karma [TS]

00:45:12   stock right all the people who are like [TS]

00:45:13   I have anxiety disorder and the only [TS]

00:45:17   thing that helps is pot tons and tons of [TS]

00:45:19   pot it's like first of all if you have [TS]

00:45:22   anxiety disorder [TS]

00:45:23   the last thing you need is pot but like [TS]

00:45:28   that a lot of i would say i would say [TS]

00:45:31   eighty-five percent of that argument is [TS]

00:45:33   baloney or if you are making that case [TS]

00:45:37   like okay the case is made right like a [TS]

00:45:41   pot as a medicine is the same as cedar [TS]

00:45:45   bark as medicine and now that it's legal [TS]

00:45:50   great like grind it up in your with your [TS]

00:45:54   hammer and pestle and then make a [TS]

00:45:56   tincture whatever it is you think you [TS]

00:45:58   need to do that my seedbox husband's [TS]

00:46:01   that is not that that that was not a a [TS]

00:46:05   persuasive argument for me that was a [TS]

00:46:07   backdoor way to ending the ridiculous [TS]

00:46:11   probably [TS]

00:46:11   not pot yeah that's exactly yeah and now [TS]

00:46:14   that it's over let's put it let's let's [TS]

00:46:16   put that baloney aside but the you know [TS]

00:46:20   the state is doing what the state does [TS]

00:46:22   with with all things which is trying to [TS]

00:46:26   regulate and tax the shit out of it and [TS]

00:46:28   I imagine most of the people i know who [TS]

00:46:32   smoked pot are still buying pot from [TS]

00:46:33   their pot dealer and they just feel a [TS]

00:46:36   little bit more relaxed about it but not [TS]

00:46:38   I i can't i can't believe that very many [TS]

00:46:41   people are going down to the pot store [TS]

00:46:46   I mean that they're rolling it the [TS]

00:46:49   rolling it out gradually and i think [TS]

00:46:51   most of the ones i see are still in this [TS]

00:46:53   dispensary category [TS]

00:46:55   yeah which involves way too much signing [TS]

00:46:59   up you know like way too much Stoker [TS]

00:47:01   yeah right it's like whoa whoa whoa i [TS]

00:47:04   got assigned something [TS]

00:47:06   oh hey man well you know how we will [TS]

00:47:09   talk to a lot in the past you know about [TS]

00:47:10   how you you don't want to become too [TS]

00:47:12   much of an old guy how we don't want to [TS]

00:47:13   be coming all goal people who just kind [TS]

00:47:15   of write stuff off and whether it's [TS]

00:47:18   music or whatever i'm trying to keep my [TS]

00:47:20   powder dry about this because my [TS]

00:47:21   immediate reaction is a little bit like [TS]

00:47:23   what is going on but I you know I want [TS]

00:47:25   to make sure that there's not new [TS]

00:47:27   information I need to take in but I [TS]

00:47:28   guess it's what decriminalized in [TS]

00:47:30   California or been in San Francisco it's [TS]

00:47:32   always been theirs as long as I've been [TS]

00:47:34   in San Francisco it's real pretty much [TS]

00:47:36   more acceptable to smoke a joint and a [TS]

00:47:38   cigarette most places and that's you [TS]

00:47:40   know how San Francisco is but mana no no [TS]

00:47:43   this is a just me noticing and [TS]

00:47:45   availability heuristic but you know [TS]

00:47:46   there's a partner house that high school [TS]

00:47:49   students walk through you know after [TS]

00:47:51   school and I mean the evidence is there [TS]

00:47:54   it's just if there's something really [TS]

00:47:57   weird to me about walking by and there's [TS]

00:48:00   this like tornadoes like just like like [TS]

00:48:04   funnels of swisher sweet wrappers just [TS]

00:48:06   like spinning around and there's a bunch [TS]

00:48:08   of like 16 year old kids just sitting [TS]

00:48:10   there just smoking pot and and my [TS]

00:48:12   daughter walked by and we know how are [TS]

00:48:14   you and keep going [TS]

00:48:15   they're not bad people are smoked some [TS]

00:48:17   time apart but something about it [TS]

00:48:19   rankles me a little bit [TS]

00:48:20   they should be scared i don't know why i [TS]

00:48:21   think that but they should not be [TS]

00:48:23   allowed to roll blood [TS]

00:48:24   in the park is something about it really [TS]

00:48:26   bothers me well I I feel like even if I [TS]

00:48:28   didn't have a kid even if I were merely [TS]

00:48:30   an old guy i think it would bug me [TS]

00:48:32   we're going where we're going to as a [TS]

00:48:34   nation I think go through a transition [TS]

00:48:36   period that maybe 15 years long-wear pot [TS]

00:48:41   is decriminalized and and we have we [TS]

00:48:43   have two whole generations of people who [TS]

00:48:47   grew up a during this prohibition period [TS]

00:48:51   who feel like now smoking pot in public [TS]

00:48:54   smoking pot and you know proudly in [TS]

00:48:57   front of everybody is still some kind of [TS]

00:49:00   resistance movement you know and that [TS]

00:49:04   that walking around smoking pot is there [TS]

00:49:06   is there right now and um and they're [TS]

00:49:12   going to it's going to be like this kind [TS]

00:49:15   of proud let my freak flag fly business [TS]

00:49:18   but they say you're saying though it's [TS]

00:49:20   it's symbolic of something more than [TS]

00:49:22   just getting intoxicated [TS]

00:49:24   yeah yeah right i mean the fact that [TS]

00:49:25   they can take a civil right it's a civil [TS]

00:49:27   right and also one where they are [TS]

00:49:29   they're very conscious of the fact that [TS]

00:49:31   people are still shocked by it and it [TS]

00:49:34   feels like very new and it feels very um [TS]

00:49:39   you know I i said i think when it first [TS]

00:49:42   happened I mean I almost want to go down [TS]

00:49:43   and buy an ounce of pot at the store [TS]

00:49:47   just because of all the years that that [TS]

00:49:49   wasn't possible and that just feels like [TS]

00:49:51   yeah I'm just buy it and and throw it on [TS]

00:49:54   the ground but like to go do it it's [TS]

00:49:56   probably way higher quality and this [TS]

00:49:57   stuff we owe customarily risked arrest [TS]

00:50:00   together it's ludicrous yeah but I think [TS]

00:50:04   you see what happened in the Netherlands [TS]

00:50:07   is that there became a real social a [TS]

00:50:11   real social divide it within the culture [TS]

00:50:15   that the Dutch people stop being [TS]

00:50:21   impressed with with pop culture and with [TS]

00:50:27   like well I'm smoking pot outside you [TS]

00:50:31   know like the Dutch were not impressed [TS]

00:50:33   with that [TS]

00:50:34   after a very short amount of time is in [TS]

00:50:36   other ones is it fair to say it's kind [TS]

00:50:38   of a live-and-let-live kind of place [TS]

00:50:40   well I in some ways yes in some ways no [TS]

00:50:44   I mean the Dutch themselves are very [TS]

00:50:46   like personally reserved and I think [TS]

00:50:49   extremely judgmental of each other and [TS]

00:50:55   of themselves you know there personally [TS]

00:50:57   very very reticent and very put together [TS]

00:51:01   their live-and-let-live aspect of their [TS]

00:51:05   culture is is founded on a kind of like [TS]

00:51:08   is this worth is this worth worrying [TS]

00:51:12   about is this worth directing resources [TS]

00:51:14   toward a more practical it's it's it's [TS]

00:51:18   it's strictly practical and it's also [TS]

00:51:20   kind of like a core libertarianism in [TS]

00:51:23   them that's just like this is beneath [TS]

00:51:26   contempt or like what why would we [TS]

00:51:28   worried about this why would we like [TS]

00:51:30   they're there they're not they're not a [TS]

00:51:32   police 'i culture they're much more [TS]

00:51:35   there self-police i guess and part of [TS]

00:51:37   being self-police is that you don't but [TS]

00:51:39   then you don't really empower the police [TS]

00:51:42   to be an army but if you walk down the [TS]

00:51:48   street in the Netherlands smoking a [TS]

00:51:49   joint you will get a lot of I mean not [TS]

00:51:53   like weird looks but you will definitely [TS]

00:51:56   feel unappreciated you know like [TS]

00:52:01   unwelcome basically because you are [TS]

00:52:04   you're not violating the law but you are [TS]

00:52:06   violating the social compact and you are [TS]

00:52:10   identifying yourself as a low-life [TS]

00:52:13   basically so it within the netherlands [TS]

00:52:16   if you want to smoke pot that's fine [TS]

00:52:18   anybody that smokes pot is fine and [TS]

00:52:19   they're they're not they're not bummed [TS]

00:52:21   out about it but it's also not you don't [TS]

00:52:24   get a sense of like that the country [TS]

00:52:26   that the mentality in the country is do [TS]

00:52:28   whatever you want man [TS]

00:52:30   welcome to the Netherlands do whatever [TS]

00:52:32   you want the culture is very much like [TS]

00:52:35   welcome to the Netherlands please [TS]

00:52:37   deposit your garbage in the proper [TS]

00:52:39   receptacle perfect can you please keep [TS]

00:52:42   it down after 8pm and like if you don't [TS]

00:52:47   you're just gonna get I mean they will [TS]

00:52:49   basically tisk tisk you to death [TS]

00:52:52   sounds like Switzerland well except the [TS]

00:52:55   Swiss are our head our way more law and [TS]

00:52:59   order and the Dutch are much they are [TS]

00:53:02   much more free and easy but it's but but [TS]

00:53:07   there's also a kind of assumption there [TS]

00:53:10   are a lot of people from other places in [TS]

00:53:11   the Netherlands and so that the people [TS]

00:53:14   that are from their feel a cultural [TS]

00:53:17   divide like if you walk through that the [TS]

00:53:20   lights plane there are people smoking [TS]

00:53:23   pot of people drinking beer and it's a [TS]

00:53:24   rowdy rowdy place but if you step back [TS]

00:53:27   and lean against the wall and watch how [TS]

00:53:29   the Dutch behave [TS]

00:53:31   they're just walking through they're on [TS]

00:53:33   their way to somewhere else like you [TS]

00:53:36   there are whole places in Amsterdam or [TS]

00:53:39   in any Dutch city where it's just Dutch [TS]

00:53:41   people going about their business and it [TS]

00:53:44   does not feel like a Renaissance Fair in [TS]

00:53:48   this place of it feels like it feels [TS]

00:53:51   like an architect's office an open-air [TS]

00:53:54   architects office orderly orderly and [TS]

00:53:57   people are you know people are very [TS]

00:53:59   well-groomed and they are very they're [TS]

00:54:02   on their way somewhere and they have a [TS]

00:54:04   Bab methodology and it's not it's it is [TS]

00:54:08   not like just go for it bro one so I [TS]

00:54:13   feel like that's going to happen here [TS]

00:54:14   too there's going to be a period where [TS]

00:54:16   where people are smoking pot and doing [TS]

00:54:18   their thing and everybody's real proud [TS]

00:54:20   of it but the natural at least in the [TS]

00:54:23   northwest the natural social overlay is [TS]

00:54:29   to say okay man you know why I see that [TS]

00:54:33   you're smoking pot and that's fine and [TS]

00:54:34   everything but like I'm walking through [TS]

00:54:36   the park with my kids and different like [TS]

00:54:38   straighten up and fly right listen I i [TS]

00:54:41   mentioned it not just because it's [TS]

00:54:42   embarrassing and pays me an old man but [TS]

00:54:44   because it just to kind of unpacking a [TS]

00:54:46   little bit its there's so many things [TS]

00:54:49   that it's not to me [TS]

00:54:50   first of all I don't really care of [TS]

00:54:52   people smoke pot I smoke pot and it is [TS]

00:54:54   really pretty harmless i definitely my [TS]

00:54:56   large x large and you know but I [TS]

00:54:59   also the driver delivered smoke pot and [TS]

00:55:02   rub tiger balm on your temples as much [TS]

00:55:05   as I shouldn't that window closed it and [TS]

00:55:08   it's also but and it's absolutely the [TS]

00:55:10   case that like gosh I mean I just don't [TS]

00:55:12   turn into like a system of a down record [TS]

00:55:14   but like no I think that address but all [TS]

00:55:18   that the drug policy stuff is grazing [TS]

00:55:20   the number of people who are in jail for [TS]

00:55:22   a certain amount of time because it's [TS]

00:55:23   only drug that stupid stupid do it also [TS]

00:55:25   the wrong way to do it so it's not that [TS]

00:55:27   either it's not like I'm saying oh you [TS]

00:55:28   doing drugs you should get in trouble [TS]

00:55:30   I'm not even saying that it's something [TS]

00:55:32   we're like this it's almost as part of [TS]

00:55:33   me that's that's the two things i can [TS]

00:55:35   distill it down to is first of all it [TS]

00:55:37   does seem weird that it's just ok for [TS]

00:55:40   kids in high school to smoke pot and not [TS]

00:55:42   be worried about it i don't know why [TS]

00:55:43   that bothers me but that does seem [TS]

00:55:45   strange and the other one is I think [TS]

00:55:46   it's gonna kind of become like the new [TS]

00:55:47   cell phone [TS]

00:55:48   I think it's going to be a little bit [TS]

00:55:49   like cell phones were in like nineteen [TS]

00:55:51   ninety-six em where it's just gonna be [TS]

00:55:53   something that annoying people are doing [TS]

00:55:55   as they can write like oh I'm on this [TS]

00:55:59   bus i'm gonna i'm gonna smoke some of my [TS]

00:56:01   marijuana [TS]

00:56:02   yeah it's something that annoying people [TS]

00:56:04   will do because they can that's exactly [TS]

00:56:06   what you see ye hear me struggling with [TS]

00:56:08   it though because I it isn't something i [TS]

00:56:10   don't want people to get in trouble for [TS]

00:56:11   it and yet there's this part of me that [TS]

00:56:13   thinks like it's it's and this is just [TS]

00:56:16   the old guy in me I think but there's a [TS]

00:56:17   part of me that thinks like I guess I'm [TS]

00:56:19   in retrospect grateful probably the [TS]

00:56:22   wrong word but like I wonder how I would [TS]

00:56:25   be today if I kept smoking as much pot [TS]

00:56:27   as I could smoke all the time with no [TS]

00:56:30   repercussions was picturing the scene [TS]

00:56:35   well this is a and this is before we [TS]

00:56:40   like nervous and paranoid that have you [TS]

00:56:43   seen Merlin know nobody sees Merlin um [TS]

00:56:47   this is what I think one of our [TS]

00:56:50   reoccurring themes and it's bennett and [TS]

00:56:52   it is a question that it's very easy to [TS]

00:56:55   it's very easy to put this into the camp [TS]

00:56:58   of like we're a couple of old guys and [TS]

00:56:59   we are making the transition now to old [TS]

00:57:01   guy concern yeah like let's say we're on [TS]

00:57:04   the wrong side of history [TS]

00:57:05   potentially yeah but the but what we [TS]

00:57:07   keep coming back to what is what is a [TS]

00:57:10   major thread running through everything [TS]

00:57:11   we ever [TS]

00:57:12   about is the idea of self-governance and [TS]

00:57:15   our perception of the current world as [TS]

00:57:21   being one where self-governance is no [TS]

00:57:24   longer taught or prized and the world [TS]

00:57:28   that we not necessarily came from but [TS]

00:57:31   the world that existed before the one [TS]

00:57:33   from whence you when we aspire to and [TS]

00:57:37   the and absolutely the one we aspire to [TS]

00:57:39   is a one is a world where [TS]

00:57:41   self-governance is is highly prized and [TS]

00:57:46   and taught and practiced you know and [TS]

00:57:51   what what happened in the sixties and [TS]

00:57:55   throughout the seventies and eighties [TS]

00:57:57   and certainly now it's just been this [TS]

00:58:00   gradual process of kara and this may be [TS]

00:58:04   true i mean i think if you look at the [TS]

00:58:05   popular culture in the twenties it was [TS]

00:58:08   true it's always true of teenagers and [TS]

00:58:11   people in their early twenties to say to [TS]

00:58:15   equate self-governance with uptightness [TS]

00:58:17   and unhip pneus and why can't you just [TS]

00:58:22   be free why can't you just you know like [TS]

00:58:24   be creative and be freely a you want you [TS]

00:58:27   want everybody to be tightly one like [TS]

00:58:28   you [TS]

00:58:29   right exactly and so and that is that's [TS]

00:58:32   like deeply unhip and one creative and [TS]

00:58:35   inhibiting and but what has happened is [TS]

00:58:39   there's all this like psychological [TS]

00:58:41   science and pseudoscience and [TS]

00:58:44   generations and generations of people [TS]

00:58:48   now with with quote unquote evidence to [TS]

00:58:52   support that all you need to do is is [TS]

00:58:55   you know give a give a grown-up a crayon [TS]

00:58:58   and and some mushrooms or whatever and [TS]

00:59:02   and look out world because he's finally [TS]

00:59:05   free [TS]

00:59:06   and he quits his job at IBM and he [TS]

00:59:08   becomes a he becomes a a fire dancer and [TS]

00:59:13   a and a pornographer and her and her a [TS]

00:59:16   and this is the world that we want to [TS]

00:59:17   live in this world of ultimate freedom [TS]

00:59:22   where everybody is just fully alive and [TS]

00:59:26   so and the way to accomplish that is [TS]

00:59:27   through art and through destroying these [TS]

00:59:29   structures and structures that used to [TS]

00:59:34   bind us to one another and and in fact [TS]

00:59:38   what it does is it creates two separate [TS]

00:59:41   classes one the class of people who are [TS]

00:59:44   keep you keep moving and get out of the [TS]

00:59:46   way and are conscious of their [TS]

00:59:48   surroundings and are trying to not be a [TS]

00:59:52   burden to other people and are aware [TS]

00:59:54   that like society dictates that we not [TS]

00:59:57   all do whatever we wanted any good [TS]

00:59:57   all do whatever we wanted any good [TS]

01:00:00   moment and then an entire separate class [TS]

01:00:03   of people who live in the world as [TS]

01:00:06   though anything that inhibits their the [TS]

01:00:11   anything that inhibits the momentary [TS]

01:00:13   expression of their whim is some kind of [TS]

01:00:17   either evidence of a police state or a [TS]

01:00:21   crew who religious state or is some like [TS]

01:00:26   worse some inhibited one creative bad [TS]

01:00:31   vibe lands III feeling get the feeling [TS]

01:00:34   that people think that it is anytime [TS]

01:00:36   that what you're describing happens they [TS]

01:00:38   want to find a way to frame it as an [TS]

01:00:39   organized attempt to attack them [TS]

01:00:41   personally because of how they are right [TS]

01:00:43   right oh and then precisely then the [TS]

01:00:45   then the you introduce the idea of [TS]

01:00:47   identity politics to it which is that [TS]

01:00:49   not only is it a question of creativity [TS]

01:00:52   but a question that the UH of their [TS]

01:00:54   identity and how they were born and [TS]

01:00:56   shaped and who they really are and so [TS]

01:00:59   now [TS]

01:01:01   yeah you are you're attacking their core [TS]

01:01:03   like they will look you right in the eye [TS]

01:01:06   didn't say I cannot keep moving and get [TS]

01:01:09   out of the way because I you know [TS]

01:01:13   because i am differently-abled than you [TS]

01:01:15   are [TS]

01:01:16   body shaming there whatever it's just [TS]

01:01:17   like well no really you still capable of [TS]

01:01:22   both moving and getting out of the way [TS]

01:01:25   because you got here [TS]

01:01:26   you got to this you got to the [TS]

01:01:28   supermarket somehow yeah so I I don't [TS]

01:01:33   know how to other than through our [TS]

01:01:36   podcast you're in my philosophy podcast [TS]

01:01:39   I mean how to and and we wrestle with [TS]

01:01:43   all the time like it are we super unhip [TS]

01:01:45   I'm sure there are people who listen to [TS]

01:01:47   the podcast and rejected immediately [TS]

01:01:49   because they hear it as two old guys who [TS]

01:01:53   no longer are free but I I really do [TS]

01:01:57   believe that's that self governance is a [TS]

01:02:00   philosophy and in my case it [TS]

01:02:04   it includes a little bit of masochism [TS]

01:02:07   and self-abnegation but like it is a way [TS]

01:02:13   it is a valid way of constructing a [TS]

01:02:16   society and it and that's why I admire [TS]

01:02:19   the Dutch they are self-governing and [TS]

01:02:23   part of that is that they're at their [TS]

01:02:25   social contract implies a lot of that [TS]

01:02:29   you know like if you step out you are [TS]

01:02:34   noticed and they don't want to be [TS]

01:02:35   noticed in that way right but I don't [TS]

01:02:39   know what I don't know how Stella got it [TS]

01:02:41   like myself not self-esteem almost [TS]

01:02:43   absolutely and himself image they see [TS]

01:02:48   themselves as being as doing the right [TS]

01:02:49   thing and I would want to do something [TS]

01:02:51   that made you even think that I was [TS]

01:02:52   doing the wrong thing because and not [TS]

01:02:54   just because they're afraid of being [TS]

01:02:56   noticed but because they think its moral [TS]

01:02:58   who you know I remember getting into an [TS]

01:03:00   argument not very long ago on twitter if [TS]

01:03:02   you can imagine me getting into an [TS]

01:03:03   argument is you out earlier an argument [TS]

01:03:06   huh where I said somewhere I said [TS]

01:03:08   something to the effect of if you wear [TS]

01:03:09   shorts and flip-flops on an airplane [TS]

01:03:13   you are a garbage person and they should [TS]

01:03:18   put you in a shoot and send you out into [TS]

01:03:21   the sky and I get some reply from a guy [TS]

01:03:25   who's a college educated person who [TS]

01:03:29   works in software probably or works you [TS]

01:03:31   know has a good job and he replies very [TS]

01:03:35   heartily that why shouldn't he be [TS]

01:03:39   comfortable on an airplane and I why [TS]

01:03:43   should i just come to your Cuban fart [TS]

01:03:45   sack wrote back and said your comfort is [TS]

01:03:48   at the expense of everyone else is [TS]

01:03:49   comfort and he says I fail to see how me [TS]

01:03:53   being comfortable impacts anyone else [TS]

01:03:55   that's the problem and I said there's [TS]

01:03:57   likely that there's the problem you're [TS]

01:03:59   not aware of your flip-flops and you're [TS]

01:04:02   like shorts intruding on other people's [TS]

01:04:06   space and we went back and forth until I [TS]

01:04:10   realized it was pointless but I've been [TS]

01:04:13   in that argument with a lot of people [TS]

01:04:14   wear [TS]

01:04:17   where the the perception of the [TS]

01:04:20   perception of the of the social contract [TS]

01:04:23   from their end is that the [TS]

01:04:26   responsibility that the onus is on me to [TS]

01:04:30   not be grossed out rather than being on [TS]

01:04:35   them to behave with what we used to [TS]

01:04:39   think of as decorum like don't show up [TS]

01:04:42   to [TS]

01:04:43   don't go out in public in your pajamas [TS]

01:04:44   don't pick your nose don't put your feet [TS]

01:04:48   up on things you know and it's not it's [TS]

01:04:51   it's like we were talking about before [TS]

01:04:52   it's not just that that Miss Manners is [TS]

01:04:57   trying to like rob you of your comfort [TS]

01:05:00   you know this is the this is this it's a [TS]

01:05:03   it's it's social libertarianism in a way [TS]

01:05:06   like a good way to put it [TS]

01:05:08   yeah it is like it is then kind of like [TS]

01:05:10   the person who is not only talking [TS]

01:05:13   really really really loud into their [TS]

01:05:16   into their mobile phone but that talking [TS]

01:05:18   really loud in their mobile phone kind [TS]

01:05:20   of feels like they know exactly what [TS]

01:05:22   they did they're doing they are on [TS]

01:05:24   purpose trying to have a conversation [TS]

01:05:25   that everybody will have to hear for [TS]

01:05:27   whatever reason right right although I [TS]

01:05:32   got into a big fight with a guy in a [TS]

01:05:33   hotel lobby one time who was sitting it [TS]

01:05:36   was one of those one of those loveseat [TS]

01:05:38   kind of hotel couches where I'm sitting [TS]

01:05:42   with my back to a guy but he's right [TS]

01:05:43   there his head is right almost touching [TS]

01:05:46   mind sitting on a couch on the other [TS]

01:05:47   side having a very animated phone [TS]

01:05:51   conversation and I looked around the [TS]

01:05:56   lobby and everyone else in the lobby is [TS]

01:05:59   sitting quietly reading a book or [TS]

01:06:01   looking at their computer and this guy [TS]

01:06:03   is just to NE and cities not talking [TS]

01:06:07   about anything [TS]

01:06:08   he's just talking loud and I and I [TS]

01:06:12   leaned back and I said hey guy could you [TS]

01:06:14   take your phone conversation outside [TS]

01:06:16   because look around no one else is [TS]

01:06:18   talking it's quiet lobby who hate crime [TS]

01:06:22   and he was a young guy you know young [TS]

01:06:26   enough in his twenties [TS]

01:06:28   and he was it was like I it was like I [TS]

01:06:36   said something about his family her and [TS]

01:06:42   he did get up and leave but not out of [TS]

01:06:44   politeness he got up and left because he [TS]

01:06:47   he felt like he was being assaulted and [TS]

01:06:51   um anyway you know he went and stood [TS]

01:06:55   outside and like glared at me through [TS]

01:06:57   the window but like kind of a little bit [TS]

01:07:00   scared but really mostly mad because I [TS]

01:07:04   said get that free time to try haha it's [TS]

01:07:08   like it's like photosynthesis to me [TS]

01:07:12   look Claire my precious collect [TS]

01:07:19   chlorophyll in my skills with vitamins [TS]

01:07:22   yeah he's out there you know and he's [TS]

01:07:24   talking to the phone i'm sure the rest [TS]

01:07:25   of his phone conversation now he finally [TS]

01:07:27   had something to talk about he had eat [TS]

01:07:29   talk about this hate crime guy who told [TS]

01:07:32   him that he couldn't do what he was [TS]

01:07:35   doing and the only reason he didn't make [TS]

01:07:40   a stand the only reason you know that [TS]

01:07:42   wasn't his Little Bighorn was that he [TS]

01:07:44   was afraid of me but you at which added [TS]

01:07:47   to the which added to the problem you [TS]

01:07:50   know and it's not like I didn't even he [TS]

01:07:52   didn't even see me just heard my voice [TS]

01:07:54   so you were her allure especially [TS]

01:07:56   harassing him [TS]

01:07:57   absolutely yeah I was interrupting his [TS]

01:07:59   personal phone call to like make some [TS]

01:08:06   comment about his behavior which is not [TS]

01:08:08   my right to do right and at the time I [TS]

01:08:11   thought I saw that moment as like all [TS]

01:08:14   right here's easy this is a kid who has [TS]

01:08:17   grown up in this world where he never [TS]

01:08:18   got less than an a in school no one ever [TS]

01:08:21   told him he did anything less than a [TS]

01:08:22   great job and he has never got that [TS]

01:08:25   punch in the nests never got a bunch of [TS]

01:08:27   the notes he is not accustomed to anyone [TS]

01:08:29   ever saying [TS]

01:08:31   Butkus to him he does what he wants and [TS]

01:08:34   he is praised for it for the most part [TS]

01:08:36   and in a lot of cases like you live that [TS]

01:08:39   way you get a good job somewhere you are [TS]

01:08:41   you're conscious of the stub the the [TS]

01:08:44   rules that matter to them now you know [TS]

01:08:47   what I mean like he would never ever [TS]

01:08:49   ever say something that might be [TS]

01:08:51   construed as sexual harassment he would [TS]

01:08:54   never ever ever say something that might [TS]

01:08:56   be construed as racially insensitive so [TS]

01:08:59   by his matrix he's following the rules [TS]

01:09:02   he is obeying the social rules that [TS]

01:09:05   matter and he's on he's unconscious has [TS]

01:09:11   never even been taught these archaic [TS]

01:09:14   social rules like don't sit in the [TS]

01:09:16   middle of a quiet lobby and yell into [TS]

01:09:18   your phone about that damage on which is [TS]

01:09:21   our rights where's our parade haha [TS]

01:09:23   there's nobody standing up for us up and [TS]

01:09:26   it may very well be a generational thing [TS]

01:09:28   in at and to the degree that there was [TS]

01:09:33   not that long ago a time where I'm sure [TS]

01:09:36   somebody sat on an airplane and a woman [TS]

01:09:39   got on and she was not wearing elbow [TS]

01:09:41   length gloves and that person said oh my [TS]

01:09:44   god the world is going to hell it and [TS]

01:09:49   and it may very well be that these [TS]

01:09:51   standards that we feel are are somehow [TS]

01:09:54   core and basic are just are just ancient [TS]

01:09:59   standards now [TS]

01:10:01   yeah and we are not we're going to be [TS]

01:10:03   ill prepared to live in a future world [TS]

01:10:06   where everyone is [TS]

01:10:08   I mean more people get on airplanes in [TS]

01:10:11   g-strings and flip-flops are you [TS]

01:10:14   body-shaping sex workers and I i hit i [TS]

01:10:18   absolutely take to refer to imagine that [TS]

01:10:20   can you imagine the kind of germs you [TS]

01:10:21   would get from that a g-string sit down [TS]

01:10:23   on this plane seats [TS]

01:10:25   well the problem is they're going to [TS]

01:10:26   train they're going to very quickly [TS]

01:10:28   replace all the seats with just standing [TS]

01:10:31   up like handlebars have like an ironing [TS]

01:10:34   board with the seatbelt on [TS]

01:10:35   yeah and so you know so why not be a [TS]

01:10:39   g-string [TS]

01:10:39   it's your comfort after all [TS]

01:10:42   but and and I honestly don't I I don't [TS]

01:10:46   want to refer to the movie idiocracy [TS]

01:10:47   because it's too easy and it seems so [TS]

01:10:50   on-the-nose except right it really is it [TS]

01:10:53   really you can see it you can't unsee it [TS]

01:10:56   and you can't unthink it and grip the [TS]

01:11:00   last and I don't I don't I don't want to [TS]

01:11:05   be up i don't want to be standing on on [TS]

01:11:10   some principles that don't actually [TS]

01:11:12   matter but i do feel that we are we are [TS]

01:11:19   animals and that civilization and a lot [TS]

01:11:22   of its precepts are in place to keep us [TS]

01:11:26   from being animals [TS]

01:11:30   yeah and totally and the more of them we [TS]

01:11:33   decide are unimportant the closer with [TS]

01:11:36   you know the clay we are not it is not [TS]

01:11:40   just a zero-sum game of like oh let's to [TS]

01:11:42   release ourselves and become more [TS]

01:11:44   creative because it's like you're not [TS]

01:11:46   doing anything original dude everybody [TS]

01:11:48   knows that you could choose to go be a [TS]

01:11:50   freak that's never been out of reach to [TS]

01:11:52   you it's just that everybody else was [TS]

01:11:54   raised that means like anything having [TS]

01:11:56   to do with expertise you have to start [TS]

01:11:57   out by learning things that are [TS]

01:11:58   presented to you as rigid rules that [TS]

01:12:00   must be followed recipes that must be [TS]

01:12:02   followed down to the TSP and eventually [TS]

01:12:04   you get good enough that you can shuck [TS]

01:12:05   and jive but the thing is that's the [TS]

01:12:07   thing about expertise is you're not [TS]

01:12:08   making better food by not following the [TS]

01:12:10   recipe you don't make crap your food [TS]

01:12:11   because somebody's trying to food shame [TS]

01:12:14   you you know we're getting better at it [TS]

01:12:16   and that's the idea of being an adult [TS]

01:12:17   and getting older and you know it does [TS]

01:12:19   seem like small stuff to say hey could [TS]

01:12:21   you treat this as the common space that [TS]

01:12:23   it is like everybody else here everybody [TS]

01:12:26   else here is getting along so but it [TS]

01:12:28   does that make you feel a little bit [TS]

01:12:29   like the crazy one though I feel like [TS]

01:12:30   I'm in a different movie [TS]

01:12:31   I feel like to quote the fantastic mr [TS]

01:12:33   fox I feel like I'm losing my mind i [TS]

01:12:35   just want to see everybody here [TS]

01:12:36   doesn't everybody see this i think [TS]

01:12:37   george costanza why is everybody not [TS]

01:12:40   just asking this guy to shut up but it's [TS]

01:12:43   so disruptive to everybody especially [TS]

01:12:44   when you go to the airport lounge and [TS]

01:12:46   you're in the quiet room and somebody's [TS]

01:12:48   on the phone you had that one [TS]

01:12:49   no I don't go [TS]

01:12:50   my god but but i do but i do very much [TS]

01:12:54   perceive i mean the the last time I got [TS]

01:12:56   into this was i I pulled into some [TS]

01:12:59   airport waiting area for my flight and [TS]

01:13:02   there was a guy there doing calisthenics [TS]

01:13:04   on a seat and anna and he very clearly [TS]

01:13:09   thought that what he was doing was [TS]

01:13:13   stretching out and getting ready for the [TS]

01:13:16   flight because he didn't want to be you [TS]

01:13:19   know he was he didn't want to be tense [TS]

01:13:21   get my client [TS]

01:13:23   yeah and he needed to be relaxed and [TS]

01:13:25   this was important and we should all be [TS]

01:13:27   doing that you could see it in his you [TS]

01:13:29   can see it in the way he was dressed in [TS]

01:13:30   the way he was acting that he thought we [TS]

01:13:32   were the dummies that everybody in the [TS]

01:13:34   airport wasn't taking up for seats and [TS]

01:13:38   dripping sweat on them like stretching [TS]

01:13:41   out like like yoga kind of stretching [TS]

01:13:43   yoga stretching to get ready for the you [TS]

01:13:47   know the like five hour up a punishment [TS]

01:13:51   session he was gonna be undertaking with [TS]

01:13:54   the rest of us in this part 2 and I was [TS]

01:13:59   you know I'm there with my little girl [TS]

01:14:00   and I was just naturally like oh right [TS]

01:14:04   this guy thinks that this is his workout [TS]

01:14:08   room and he's violating the social [TS]

01:14:12   contract he doesn't think he is he [TS]

01:14:15   thinks he's smarter than we are [TS]

01:14:17   I think he thinks that he's an [TS]

01:14:19   individual as an individual but he's [TS]

01:14:21   also a role model like this is what we [TS]

01:14:23   if we were all as in touch with our [TS]

01:14:25   bodies he is after all as healthy as a [TS]

01:14:28   fiddle America have a little that your [TS]

01:14:29   face that's right we are a bunch of fat [TS]

01:14:31   slobs he's the only one that is really [TS]

01:14:33   taking advantage of this opportunity to [TS]

01:14:35   get stretched out and get clean and so I [TS]

01:14:38   made a short little video of him and I [TS]

01:14:40   posted on the internet and I was like [TS]

01:14:42   here's this guy [TS]

01:14:44   is this guy doing this and he sees me [TS]

01:14:46   making the video of him and he gets [TS]

01:14:49   ashamed and he ducks his head down and [TS]

01:14:52   hide and i got fifty 50 responses fifty [TS]

01:14:57   percent of the people were like fuck [TS]

01:14:59   that guy forever and fifty percent of [TS]

01:15:02   the people were like oh I can't believe [TS]

01:15:04   that you would do that you would post a [TS]

01:15:06   video of that guy without his consent [TS]

01:15:09   and we should have a dialogue about this [TS]

01:15:14   and those people i wrote back and said [TS]

01:15:15   well I he did not have my consent to [TS]

01:15:17   sweat all over those chairs and he's [TS]

01:15:20   like he's bite by stepping outside of [TS]

01:15:24   the of what we agree are the rules [TS]

01:15:28   he is making himself a spectacle he is [TS]

01:15:30   making himself a public person like I'm [TS]

01:15:33   not walking around putting my video [TS]

01:15:35   camera in people's faces who are sitting [TS]

01:15:37   in the airport like a person sits in an [TS]

01:15:39   airport [TS]

01:15:40   yeah but if you are putting on a show [TS]

01:15:41   like you you cross the line into like [TS]

01:15:45   hey look at this guy he's putting on a [TS]

01:15:47   show for us and so here he goes here is [TS]

01:15:50   his moment he's going to get on the [TS]

01:15:51   internet and i'm going to say fuck this [TS]

01:15:54   guy and I went back and forth with a [TS]

01:15:57   couple of people and a couple of people [TS]

01:15:59   not even people that I like and admire [TS]

01:16:00   whose work I am familiar with who their [TS]

01:16:04   version of the social contract is you [TS]

01:16:07   don't take up you don't shame somebody [TS]

01:16:09   on the internet right you don't take a [TS]

01:16:12   video of somebody without their consent [TS]

01:16:13   and shame them for their behavior [TS]

01:16:16   because that is the that's the real [TS]

01:16:18   danger that actually not something you [TS]

01:16:19   do very often is I don't do it at all I [TS]

01:16:22   don't do it unless there's somebody who [TS]

01:16:24   is behaving shamefully like like this [TS]

01:16:29   guy did not and what's amazing is that [TS]

01:16:31   if I found out later that he and i guess [TS]

01:16:34   i should have thought of this he was it [TS]

01:16:36   was this is applied to seattle he's a [TS]

01:16:38   guy coming to seattle and there were [TS]

01:16:39   people on facebook they're like I know [TS]

01:16:40   that guy [TS]

01:16:41   oh god that guy is like vp of somebody [TS]

01:16:45   for this tech company and I got a couple [TS]

01:16:49   she thought officer / yocrunch exactly [TS]

01:16:52   and I got a couple of dm's that were [TS]

01:16:54   like that guy's the biggest fucking [TS]

01:16:55   prick than ever [TS]

01:16:56   but and of course he is [TS]

01:17:00   you know but but but that idea that a [TS]

01:17:05   and in a way this now the whole concept [TS]

01:17:08   of like the public performative aspect [TS]

01:17:14   of everything we're doing now is really [TS]

01:17:19   opt-in you know what I mean if you want [TS]

01:17:22   to stay if you want to stay anonymous [TS]

01:17:25   that is as easy as can be because no one [TS]

01:17:29   is walking around picking people at [TS]

01:17:31   random and anonymously like that and and [TS]

01:17:35   and spoiling their anonymity as a kind [TS]

01:17:38   of blood sport because there are far far [TS]

01:17:41   too many people dressing like dragons [TS]

01:17:44   and masturbating in public places [TS]

01:17:48   because they have a prescription for it [TS]

01:17:50   you know how far are we from that my [TS]

01:17:55   doctors video [TS]

01:17:57   my doctor says that i need to masturbate [TS]

01:18:02   under a blanket on a park bench for my [TS]

01:18:06   anxiety that second cuts and the dragon [TS]

01:18:09   costume is part of my new identity so [TS]

01:18:14   hey there is transitioning the two are [TS]

01:18:16   connected the dragon costume is part of [TS]

01:18:20   my dragon identity and the masturbating [TS]

01:18:22   I have a prescription for it and so this [TS]

01:18:26   stop this is not going out [TS]

01:18:29   stop looking at me videotaping me em up [TS]

01:18:33   up up [TS]