Roderick on the Line

Ep. 98: "A Mastiff of Spinach"


00:00:00   hello hey John I Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:12   oh it's so early yeah it's really early [TS]

00:00:17   it's early i I've never seen you use [TS]

00:00:21   your phone so early [TS]

00:00:22   I don't think well they say sick I i am [TS]

00:00:28   sick [TS]

00:00:29   god I have a kind of sickness that is [TS]

00:00:33   that is a drug sickness who i am on my [TS]

00:00:41   third day of caffeine withdrawal [TS]

00:00:45   oh my god and hear the real girl and I [TS]

00:00:51   oh no i woke up at seven in the morning [TS]

00:00:55   with shippers and I feel like I was in a [TS]

00:00:59   car wreck [TS]

00:01:00   I feel like I feel like I rolled a car [TS]

00:01:02   that's at every every muscle and joint [TS]

00:01:06   in my body [TS]

00:01:07   it's like really really protesting oh my [TS]

00:01:11   goodness this is you sure you're up for [TS]

00:01:14   this [TS]

00:01:15   no yeah my god you know I like to I like [TS]

00:01:18   to get into the center of the pain [TS]

00:01:20   explore all I am I am the I'm the the [TS]

00:01:24   seven blind men describing an elephant [TS]

00:01:26   and pain [TS]

00:01:30   Wow uh so when was the last time you [TS]

00:01:39   quit caffeine just cold turkey [TS]

00:01:42   well um my gosh i have i've tried to cut [TS]

00:01:48   down but net I it's been awhile since I [TS]

00:01:51   just said I'm not going to have any [TS]

00:01:53   caffeine at all this morning [TS]

00:01:57   yeah and I its [TS]

00:01:59   I've done in the past and its really [TS]

00:02:03   hard and a little crazy [TS]

00:02:06   [Music] [TS]

00:02:07   are you feeling any psychological [TS]

00:02:08   effects oh yes oh very irritated i am [TS]

00:02:15   very irritated [TS]

00:02:17   it's the thing is it's a i like it so [TS]

00:02:20   well documented i guess but there are [TS]

00:02:24   all kinds of effects you know it's gonna [TS]

00:02:27   be with caffeine to begin with even on [TS]

00:02:29   the best day is a balance even when you [TS]

00:02:31   go pro still got you have good days and [TS]

00:02:33   bad days and what's what's funny to me [TS]

00:02:36   about caffeine is the like the effects [TS]

00:02:39   of having too much coffee can be kind of [TS]

00:02:42   similar to the effects of having no [TS]

00:02:44   coffee but minus the energy like [TS]

00:02:47   irritability little bit little bit of a [TS]

00:02:50   headache [TS]

00:02:51   yeah yeah yeah well let me bit you know [TS]

00:02:56   I'm a caffeine ranger and I i use [TS]

00:02:59   caffeine to explore all the universes [TS]

00:03:02   and I i have quit a few times over the [TS]

00:03:07   years and I and I know what's in store [TS]

00:03:09   you know when I say like okay like i've [TS]

00:03:12   got i've been to the edge and I steps [TS]

00:03:15   student look down and I need to cut it i [TS]

00:03:20   need to cut it out and I and i know i'm [TS]

00:03:23   looking forward to like a solid three [TS]

00:03:26   days of gotten it out and each day has [TS]

00:03:30   its phases and the you'd you would think [TS]

00:03:36   that by the third day it would be [TS]

00:03:38   tapering off but really the third days [TS]

00:03:39   the is the toughest one for me and then [TS]

00:03:42   on day four like you you you walk out [TS]

00:03:44   into the clear like you're right you're [TS]

00:03:46   out into the day again but but i don't [TS]

00:03:50   know whether it's my age or whether i [TS]

00:03:52   was using come i was using a well over [TS]

00:03:57   the prescribed dosages of of Captain for [TS]

00:03:59   a long time but I fucked really woke up [TS]

00:04:02   this morning [TS]

00:04:03   in a title match with with my nerve [TS]

00:04:08   ending this but I'm laughing but I'm so [TS]

00:04:11   sorry I I know what you're talking about [TS]

00:04:14   I mean there's a reason that excedrin [TS]

00:04:15   puts caffeine in with the aspirin in [TS]

00:04:19   that that's what they recommend when you [TS]

00:04:20   got a migraine because i think it fits [TS]

00:04:22   your capillaries or whatever but it's it [TS]

00:04:24   it definitely can help you get rid of a [TS]

00:04:26   headache and if you don't have it as [TS]

00:04:28   little fella just close right up [TS]

00:04:30   yeah yeah whoo so can we explore this a [TS]

00:04:34   little bit you pulled up your [TS]

00:04:35   three-legged stool [TS]

00:04:37   yeah absolutely you're sitting in the [TS]

00:04:38   center of it all the lights are on [TS]

00:04:42   oh how well so this caffeine withdrawal [TS]

00:04:49   is a part it's a component of a larger [TS]

00:04:53   project a larger three-day project which [TS]

00:04:56   is that I am honored choose fast thing [TS]

00:05:05   which i find ridiculous on its pace [TS]

00:05:07   through the tickets have you been really [TS]

00:05:09   Family Circle no wednesday was never [TS]

00:05:13   about that even the limit is the lemon [TS]

00:05:14   juice recoup alot i have no idea why I'm [TS]

00:05:17   doing it [TS]

00:05:18   what the point of it is but it was [TS]

00:05:21   suggested to me and I said oh sure i can [TS]

00:05:24   do a three day juice fast once i love [TS]

00:05:26   juice unless I mean let's just let's [TS]

00:05:29   start with an obvious one you you're [TS]

00:05:30   working on your body you got some body [TS]

00:05:32   work and and you enjoy a challenge [TS]

00:05:35   that's right you're not against juice [TS]

00:05:38   no I dived i was reading it i was [TS]

00:05:41   reading Martha Stewart's living about [TS]

00:05:42   all the healthy juices that you can make [TS]

00:05:45   from your from your orchards and I i own [TS]

00:05:50   a juicer because at one point of the [TS]

00:05:54   long winters did did some some extensive [TS]

00:05:57   touring with the band keen and they [TS]

00:05:59   always had a juicer in there backstage [TS]

00:06:03   area and we would get we would get off [TS]

00:06:05   of these like long brutal drives across [TS]

00:06:09   Europe and we would roll into these [TS]

00:06:11   stadium shows and there would be this [TS]

00:06:13   juicer [TS]

00:06:15   waiting as soon as we got out of the van [TS]

00:06:16   and we would make these complex chooses [TS]

00:06:19   with ginger and lemon [TS]

00:06:21   we just felt like superstars and so when [TS]

00:06:25   I got done with that too i was like i'm [TS]

00:06:27   gonna get a juicer that's how and that's [TS]

00:06:29   how a man lives if you are if you're a [TS]

00:06:33   real like operator if you're a guy that [TS]

00:06:37   is that knows how to tie a tie you [TS]

00:06:39   should have a juicer at your house and [TS]

00:06:40   make you feel vital it just fills you [TS]

00:06:42   with nutrients it goes you with [TS]

00:06:44   nutrients well or it fills you with [TS]

00:06:46   sugar water I mean I what I can't figure [TS]

00:06:48   how about juices like so I'm making [TS]

00:06:51   these juices and they are very [TS]

00:06:53   complicated i went to the store I bought [TS]

00:06:55   all this spinach and kale and and and [TS]

00:06:59   carrots and move ginger and you know [TS]

00:07:03   garlic and basil and all this stuff and [TS]

00:07:06   beets beet green definitely miss the [TS]

00:07:09   coffee at all that sounds wonderful [TS]

00:07:11   well and I'm so I'm throwing it all [TS]

00:07:13   looks legit she could pick up the day at [TS]

00:07:16   we kick off the day with some hot lemon [TS]

00:07:18   water [TS]

00:07:19   hmm now that the pipes movement m and [TS]

00:07:25   I'm better but I'm throwing this stuff [TS]

00:07:27   into the juicer i'm watching all the [TS]

00:07:29   actual food just get shunted off into [TS]

00:07:33   the garbage bag and what's left is this [TS]

00:07:37   concentrated like purple sugar water [TS]

00:07:40   basically and I it's like the only bill [TS]

00:07:43   it's like build you put it i mean if you [TS]

00:07:45   want to make spinach juice it takes an [TS]

00:07:47   extraordinary amount of spinach to make [TS]

00:07:50   a tiny little you know you know when you [TS]

00:07:51   cook spinach it just all kind of [TS]

00:07:52   disappears but when you don't use it [TS]

00:07:54   I mean that doesn't it take like what [TS]

00:07:55   like a whole giant basket to make like a [TS]

00:07:57   half a cup [TS]

00:07:58   yeah I put in the equivalent of what of [TS]

00:08:00   a mastiff into the juicers like a [TS]

00:08:04   mastiff of it a basket of spinach and [TS]

00:08:09   and yeah it produces like 22 ounces of [TS]

00:08:11   wheatgrass juice that's like six bucks [TS]

00:08:15   and I go okay i mean i guess that I'm [TS]

00:08:18   getting some but but but i'm really not [TS]

00:08:21   getting much out of it i mean it's i'm [TS]

00:08:24   probably it's probably what 600 calories [TS]

00:08:27   a day of of juice just because i think [TS]

00:08:31   part of the part of the juice fast part [TS]

00:08:34   of why it works is that it's so fucking [TS]

00:08:36   complicated to make the juice and clean [TS]

00:08:38   the juicer you don't want to do it more [TS]

00:08:41   than a couple of times a day and so [TS]

00:08:44   you're basically just you're just [TS]

00:08:45   starving yourself and taking some sugar [TS]

00:08:47   water in the interim [TS]

00:08:49   you're not gonna believe the timing on [TS]

00:08:50   this here you're not going to believe [TS]

00:08:52   how simpatico it makes me because you [TS]

00:08:55   need you texted me this morning and I [TS]

00:08:56   was like obviously someone attacks on [TS]

00:08:58   two counts because he's using his phone [TS]

00:09:00   at something like eight in the morning [TS]

00:09:01   and i was i was sleeping in a little bit [TS]

00:09:04   and i have recently been awakened by a [TS]

00:09:07   horrific almost medieval grinding sound [TS]

00:09:10   coming from our kitchen [TS]

00:09:11   oh because my my family had decided to [TS]

00:09:14   make some juices this morning why it's [TS]

00:09:16   real real loud isn't always very loud [TS]

00:09:19   that machine is a it's a plant killer it [TS]

00:09:22   is it takes them right out [TS]

00:09:23   it's phyto killer int a and anyway the [TS]

00:09:26   point being that then my the the 12 [TS]

00:09:29   punch was then my daughter came in with [TS]

00:09:31   a small glass of like a caramel colored [TS]

00:09:37   liquid and she goes drink this and I was [TS]

00:09:40   like I heard the noise i'm not thinking [TS]

00:09:42   that but just like no drink it it's [TS]

00:09:44   really good and had a little her other [TS]

00:09:46   14 little straws in it and it was so [TS]

00:09:51   gross [TS]

00:09:52   it was it was well i think it was [TS]

00:09:53   primary was there are some spinach and [TS]

00:09:55   there was some carrots and but it really [TS]

00:09:59   really tasted like celery [TS]

00:10:01   oh that's right they say celery is the [TS]

00:10:03   juice ruin our oh is that right that's [TS]

00:10:05   good to hack yeah you put any put celery [TS]

00:10:08   of any juice and it just ruins because [TS]

00:10:09   it makes it taste like somewhere like [TS]

00:10:11   cilantro [TS]

00:10:12   right exactly yes so I'm feeling it for [TS]

00:10:15   you I I and I said really i said Elinor [TS]

00:10:18   that's terrible that's an awful thing to [TS]

00:10:20   put in my mouth while still laying in [TS]

00:10:21   bed until spilled on the bed background [TS]

00:10:23   but and so so what I mean okay seriously [TS]

00:10:29   though what what led you did you just [TS]

00:10:32   decide it was just a fun project or you [TS]

00:10:34   said yeah yeah just my project [TS]

00:10:36   yeah there's no that you know I the the [TS]

00:10:38   wall when I think back to the the time [TS]

00:10:41   that i decided i was going to stop [TS]

00:10:43   eating wheat and sugar [TS]

00:10:44   I honestly even a day later could not [TS]

00:10:47   remember what I was what was motivating [TS]

00:10:50   me you know like I don't remember the [TS]

00:10:53   idea that came into my head and I [TS]

00:10:54   usually remember my motivations but [TS]

00:10:58   looking back I was like I don't remember [TS]

00:11:00   why i decided to do this what I'm what [TS]

00:11:02   is going on with me and it's the same [TS]

00:11:04   with this juice fast i cannot i cannot [TS]

00:11:07   tell you how the idea got lodged in my [TS]

00:11:08   brain I think I read something on and on [TS]

00:11:12   an airplane [TS]

00:11:14   I think it was a date with something so [TS]

00:11:16   many terrible projects start reading by [TS]

00:11:18   running on an airplane i think i was [TS]

00:11:20   reading at the in-flight magazine and [TS]

00:11:23   then i was reading and then there was [TS]

00:11:26   something snarky in The New Yorker and [TS]

00:11:29   it just got this idea going like juices [TS]

00:11:32   huh juices maybe New York magazine had [TS]

00:11:35   an article about a guy who was running a [TS]

00:11:38   gym that also was a juicer and it just [TS]

00:11:41   got in there just the worm got in there [TS]

00:11:44   and all of a sudden Here I am three days [TS]

00:11:47   into a juice fast and everything every [TS]

00:11:50   joint in my body is aching and what I [TS]

00:11:53   want is I mean name of food I wanted [TS]

00:11:57   yeah but what I have available to me is [TS]

00:12:00   like beaches basically it seems like one [TS]

00:12:04   of those things that they would do like [TS]

00:12:05   you know i don't know like in the maze [TS]

00:12:08   in Ireland like this some kind of a [TS]

00:12:09   prison thing like when they give you the [TS]

00:12:11   the punishment loaf like they were put [TS]

00:12:13   on a juice diet because i was just i [TS]

00:12:15   would have to be honest with you first [TS]

00:12:16   launch want to applaud you and if this [TS]

00:12:18   sounds like it could be really good for [TS]

00:12:19   you but I would find it so hard to look [TS]

00:12:22   forward to anything in life if I knew it [TS]

00:12:24   was going to be a day filled with juice [TS]

00:12:26   well this is the thing when you when you [TS]

00:12:28   when you stop eating food you realize [TS]

00:12:30   how many of your projects how many of [TS]

00:12:33   the reasons that you're going out how [TS]

00:12:35   many [TS]

00:12:35   you have the how many come to things [TS]

00:12:37   that the like pylons that demarcate the [TS]

00:12:41   obstacle course of your day are just [TS]

00:12:43   food it's like what do you want to do I [TS]

00:12:46   don't know what's going downtown well [TS]

00:12:47   what should we do [TS]

00:12:48   well let's go to that restaurant well [TS]

00:12:50   we're not eating food we're eating i'm [TS]

00:12:52   drinking juice right now I'm sorry to [TS]

00:12:54   say oh well we could go to that smoothie [TS]

00:12:57   place [TS]

00:12:58   yeah but those are smoothies they're not [TS]

00:13:01   juice really like already i'm already [TS]

00:13:04   are the most boring person alive i [TS]

00:13:06   mislike it was bad enough when you when [TS]

00:13:07   he couldn't have french fries or [TS]

00:13:09   something but now I mean it's I was [TS]

00:13:12   gonna say it's like being on a salad [TS]

00:13:13   dressing diet but it's not it's not even [TS]

00:13:15   it's not even I I could see myself [TS]

00:13:17   waking up in the morning go I you know [TS]

00:13:18   nice cup of like a couple shots of [TS]

00:13:20   Thousand Island could get me going [TS]

00:13:22   yeah but it's all it's a lot of work [TS]

00:13:24   it'sit's it's pretty costly too i think [TS]

00:13:26   it is as well so I was so the other [TS]

00:13:29   night [TS]

00:13:29   22 days into my juice fast the [TS]

00:13:32   presidents of the united states of [TS]

00:13:34   america played their annual president's [TS]

00:13:36   day concert here in Seattle and I got up [TS]

00:13:39   with them and sang sang a song is on [TS]

00:13:42   their new record with them and so I got [TS]

00:13:44   up and sang songs and then they then [TS]

00:13:47   they launched into new girl [TS]

00:13:49   well so what we get done singing the [TS]

00:13:52   song like yeah that was great and then [TS]

00:13:54   they just like launched into new girl [TS]

00:13:56   and they're only go go do it do it sing [TS]

00:13:58   it sing it and so we saying new girl in [TS]

00:14:03   front of their sold-out crowd which was [TS]

00:14:04   super fun and then we get off the stage [TS]

00:14:09   we're hanging out backstage and I'm like [TS]

00:14:11   oh man I thought that was really amazing [TS]

00:14:13   but I'm a little bit freaked out a [TS]

00:14:16   little bit tweaking right now because [TS]

00:14:18   i'm i'm on a juice fast when you think [TS]

00:14:20   of that guy's and Chris blue as a very [TS]

00:14:26   complicated theory about food and he was [TS]

00:14:29   like well you know actually juices [TS]

00:14:31   garbage food because it was you know but [TS]

00:14:34   most of those most of those foods were [TS]

00:14:37   developed by [TS]

00:14:40   by human intervention and we've we've [TS]

00:14:43   robbed all of our foods of their [TS]

00:14:45   nutrients over the course of the [TS]

00:14:48   millennium is he a million conspiracy [TS]

00:14:50   theorist started this he tried to he [TS]

00:14:52   he's a knowledgeable eating well guy I [TS]

00:14:54   chris is both things he is extremely [TS]

00:14:57   knowledgeable and you know and also like [TS]

00:15:00   he goes on it goes on intellectual [TS]

00:15:05   journeys where he discovers a new thing [TS]

00:15:07   and then it becomes kind of like it's [TS]

00:15:10   tense central to his his way of thinking [TS]

00:15:14   for example again like nutrition buff [TS]

00:15:16   yeah he ratings read some interesting [TS]

00:15:18   books and now he's really interested in [TS]

00:15:20   in the topic but then Jason [TS]

00:15:22   fence-sitting are your life good friend [TS]

00:15:24   Jason been sitting on the couch says [TS]

00:15:25   yeah well you know i i've done a [TS]

00:15:29   seven-day Master Cleanse which is that a [TS]

00:15:35   pooping 17 days of lemon and cayenne [TS]

00:15:40   pepper but i think it's just lemon and [TS]

00:15:43   and molasses maybe in the hot water or [TS]

00:15:48   not no he said not hot water room [TS]

00:15:50   temperature [TS]

00:15:50   I'm like seven days of and he's like oh [TS]

00:15:53   yeah yeah by the fourth day you're [TS]

00:15:55   really you're here really see and you're [TS]

00:15:59   seeing dragons you know and you're and [TS]

00:16:02   yeah he you know he talked about the [TS]

00:16:04   poop for a little while and I i was i [TS]

00:16:08   mean certainly I was impressed that my [TS]

00:16:10   three day juice fast got one up so hard [TS]

00:16:13   i was i was there was the first time [TS]

00:16:15   i've even gone out in public and I [TS]

00:16:17   already just got Smackdown like that's [TS]

00:16:19   like he didn't even eating and get the [TS]

00:16:21   high five for electronic bean and cheese [TS]

00:16:23   fast 03 juice fast that's cute you [TS]

00:16:26   should try seven-day Master Cleanse we [TS]

00:16:27   just drink lemon water so it was a it [TS]

00:16:32   was a little bit like I went home tail [TS]

00:16:34   between my legs but I stuck with my [TS]

00:16:36   juice fast I didn't go home and start [TS]

00:16:37   drinking lemon water molasses and I [TS]

00:16:39   didn't have a hamburger either so here [TS]

00:16:43   it is day three and I've got this class [TS]

00:16:44   here that is full of juice and it's [TS]

00:16:48   it's really it's it's bright red is the [TS]

00:16:50   color of cows blood [TS]

00:16:52   mm it's like I'm drinking a glass of [TS]

00:16:54   cows blood [TS]

00:16:55   well you know I think about a nutty [TS]

00:16:59   system is that sometimes he just kind of [TS]

00:17:01   stick with the nutty system [TS]

00:17:03   yes thank you hello that's it's not you [TS]

00:17:05   know i mean the thing is if you [TS]

00:17:07   overthink it i mean with any kind of [TS]

00:17:08   diet or anything like that i think that [TS]

00:17:10   the way two if by succeed we mean make [TS]

00:17:13   it through the amount of time that we [TS]

00:17:15   say we're going to do it and hopefully [TS]

00:17:16   that same I mean you're gonna do this [TS]

00:17:17   for months probably but if you said you [TS]

00:17:19   introduced 45 days seven days something [TS]

00:17:21   like that then I think you gotta it [TS]

00:17:23   helps me anyway to get to a place where [TS]

00:17:25   I'm not thinking about it too much [TS]

00:17:27   I'm not you know I'm doing what I gotta [TS]

00:17:28   do but to make it sustainable even for [TS]

00:17:31   more than two or three days even more [TS]

00:17:32   than a day we have to get to someplace [TS]

00:17:34   where it's just kind of routine and [TS]

00:17:36   you're like well this thing I'm doing I [TS]

00:17:37   don't know what makes sense you know [TS]

00:17:39   Jason Finn has given me some things to [TS]

00:17:40   think about but i'm going to just stick [TS]

00:17:42   with this and do this thing and then [TS]

00:17:43   maybe not maybe another time i'll do the [TS]

00:17:45   lemon diet [TS]

00:17:46   well that's exactly right and what's [TS]

00:17:47   amazing about this is that the side [TS]

00:17:50   effects that usually when I quit [TS]

00:17:51   caffeine it is that I get super sick [TS]

00:17:54   like that's how I quit really honestly [TS]

00:17:56   that's your body responds to a lot of [TS]

00:17:58   things that's how I quit drinking and [TS]

00:17:59   drugs [TS]

00:18:00   it's how I quit smoking cigarettes it's [TS]

00:18:03   how I like and most my relationships I [TS]

00:18:05   get really sick and I just go off into a [TS]

00:18:08   corner to die and then when I when I [TS]

00:18:11   come back I'm phoenix rising from the [TS]

00:18:13   ashes [TS]

00:18:14   I was going to say it's like your body [TS]

00:18:16   has to burn itself down so it can rise [TS]

00:18:17   from its own ashes [TS]

00:18:18   that's right and so what this what's [TS]

00:18:20   happening right now is this this [TS]

00:18:22   caffeine withdrawal is just a byproduct [TS]

00:18:26   of it but but honestly the first thing I [TS]

00:18:29   thought about when somebody said three [TS]

00:18:31   day juice fast I was like ooh that would [TS]

00:18:33   be a tough caffeine burn you mean [TS]

00:18:36   whatever else was going on no matter how [TS]

00:18:38   hungry where he your your knees would [TS]

00:18:41   hurt your fingernails would hurt but [TS]

00:18:45   when it's over then I'm then I have [TS]

00:18:47   accomplished this what is actually a [TS]

00:18:49   pretty daunting task which is this [TS]

00:18:51   caffeine withdrawal and then I'm gonna [TS]

00:18:53   like try and stay off of the coffee [TS]

00:18:56   which is actually a better way to live [TS]

00:18:57   it really is what I'm not when I don't [TS]

00:18:59   drink the coffee i am you know you're [TS]

00:19:03   you're living in the light so so if [TS]

00:19:05   you're going to go through all this i [TS]

00:19:06   just don't want to repeat what you're [TS]

00:19:07   saying but just so I understand you're [TS]

00:19:09   gonna try and stick with us for a while [TS]

00:19:10   the juice thing is a temporary thing [TS]

00:19:12   you'll enjoy you will enjoy your many [TS]

00:19:14   blood-red juices for a while to get [TS]

00:19:16   through it but you're thinking you'll [TS]

00:19:18   probably having gone through this dark [TS]

00:19:20   night of the soul with coffee you're [TS]

00:19:22   going to try and just stay off it after [TS]

00:19:23   this [TS]

00:19:24   yeah i think so for a while at the right [TS]

00:19:26   time yeah because I don't like [TS]

00:19:33   dependency it's the it's the overarching [TS]

00:19:38   theme of my life I cannot abide [TS]

00:19:41   dependence and I am dependent on [TS]

00:19:46   caffeine what makes me uncomfortable [TS]

00:19:51   I think arguably I don't know in my [TS]

00:19:54   cultures I think that like historically [TS]

00:19:57   like smoking cigarettes and drinking [TS]

00:19:59   coffee [TS]

00:20:00   it's more than something that everybody [TS]

00:20:02   does it's kind of like almost like a [TS]

00:20:04   default like you described with food [TS]

00:20:06   like what you want to do well let's just [TS]

00:20:08   meet its kind of like just the thing [TS]

00:20:10   that you do and if you don't know what [TS]

00:20:11   to do you have a cup of coffee or smoke [TS]

00:20:13   cigarette and you don't notice how often [TS]

00:20:16   that becomes the default not trying to [TS]

00:20:18   say one way or another good bad or [TS]

00:20:19   otherwise but you know with coffee you [TS]

00:20:21   don't notice it [TS]

00:20:23   I mean once it's gone you really notice [TS]

00:20:24   how often you had that little hankering [TS]

00:20:27   and then just knowing you can't have it [TS]

00:20:29   makes it's so much worse and weird to [TS]

00:20:32   wear if I'm trying to stop something [TS]

00:20:33   like long lines of a coffee which I'll [TS]

00:20:35   do sometimes you're trying to cut down [TS]

00:20:37   but now but especially from stopping [TS]

00:20:39   I'll i will want coffee [TS]

00:20:41   more than anything in the world and i [TS]

00:20:43   would even want coffee before I would [TS]

00:20:45   want coffee [TS]

00:20:46   uh-huh like the idea of waking up and [TS]

00:20:48   going like oh this is my first day [TS]

00:20:50   without coffee [TS]

00:20:50   that's all I'm gonna think about right [TS]

00:20:52   you know or I remember especially when I [TS]

00:20:55   was doing the you know the Atkins diet [TS]

00:20:56   like I never wanted french fries so much [TS]

00:20:59   in my entire life [TS]

00:21:00   [Music] [TS]

00:21:02   I go like a go-to place and I get this [TS]

00:21:04   giant and really honestly [TS]

00:21:06   physiologically completely satisfying [TS]

00:21:08   like big bacon burger with no bun with [TS]

00:21:11   lettuce [TS]

00:21:11   yeah i mean that's all the food a person [TS]

00:21:13   needs throughout its like you'll be [TS]

00:21:15   talking about like you how can have a [TS]

00:21:16   state without noodles it just doesn't [TS]

00:21:17   make sense [TS]

00:21:18   like why would you not have noodles with [TS]

00:21:20   your steak is just a thing you should do [TS]

00:21:21   is a gentleman but like and when you [TS]

00:21:23   know you can't have that it's it's so [TS]

00:21:25   strange how your brain at least my brain [TS]

00:21:28   can cook up this this [TS]

00:21:30   oh I guess anxiety or or kind of like [TS]

00:21:33   unease about about the possibility that [TS]

00:21:35   i can't have that it makes me feel very [TS]

00:21:37   scared [TS]

00:21:38   oh it's a profound anxiety and this is [TS]

00:21:40   the this is the this is the number one [TS]

00:21:42   mind game of quitting all drugs is that [TS]

00:21:46   the it isn't really the physical [TS]

00:21:50   addiction that defeats you it is them [TS]

00:21:53   it's that anxiousness that comes into [TS]

00:21:56   your mind that says I'm never going to [TS]

00:21:58   have another french fry [TS]

00:21:59   I can't live like this right like and [TS]

00:22:02   what you do with your time right if you [TS]

00:22:03   spend if you spend a third or half your [TS]

00:22:05   day drinking and then you don't like how [TS]

00:22:07   would you do to fill that time you just [TS]

00:22:09   suddenly go and start volunteering I [TS]

00:22:11   mean it's a lot of time to fill well I'm [TS]

00:22:14   you and you can only I had a [TS]

00:22:15   conversation last night with a guy [TS]

00:22:18   the middle-aged guy let's say kinda like [TS]

00:22:21   this one it's kind of like this [TS]

00:22:22   conversation [TS]

00:22:24   well I should preface this by saying [TS]

00:22:27   that I went to see miley cyrus last [TS]

00:22:29   night was she performing yes I want to [TS]

00:22:33   see a Miley Cyrus concert last night at [TS]

00:22:35   the tacoma dome because i got an email [TS]

00:22:40   from a friend of mine who is working at [TS]

00:22:44   a sort of a high level in her production [TS]

00:22:46   and he said you'll never guess what i'm [TS]

00:22:49   doing now I'm doing you know X for the [TS]

00:22:53   production of this Miley Cyrus concert [TS]

00:22:55   do you want to come and i said yes i [TS]

00:22:59   will come and see this my Miley Cyrus [TS]

00:23:02   concert because I think mainly because [TS]

00:23:08   everything that I had everybody every [TS]

00:23:12   little post-it note in my head that i [TS]

00:23:14   had about my [TS]

00:23:15   Cyrus was negative like I don't think I [TS]

00:23:19   like Miley Cyrus is just as a thing i [TS]

00:23:22   didn't like hannah montana didn't like [TS]

00:23:25   that all you think it was catchy i don't [TS]

00:23:27   well I didn't know anything about it but [TS]

00:23:28   it's intense [TS]

00:23:30   I just instinctively didn't like it [TS]

00:23:31   because when i go into thrift stores i [TS]

00:23:33   see these little plastic guitar that [TS]

00:23:35   have hannah montana stickers on them and [TS]

00:23:38   I go oh that's garbage and I don't think [TS]

00:23:40   I liked Billy Ray Cyrus although i don't [TS]

00:23:42   know what that sounds like either but I [TS]

00:23:44   don't like what it represents [TS]

00:23:46   even though i don't really know what it [TS]

00:23:47   represents I just don't like it i didn't [TS]

00:23:50   like it i didn't like his haircut I [TS]

00:23:51   didn't like that brand of what i think [TS]

00:23:56   is that brand of country music people [TS]

00:23:59   get using that phrase boot scoot it made [TS]

00:24:00   me uncomfortable [TS]

00:24:01   I don't like that boot scoot I don't [TS]

00:24:02   wanna hear that now and so Hannah [TS]

00:24:06   Montana disney creation just kind of you [TS]

00:24:09   know it's not like i hate it i just [TS]

00:24:11   don't like it I don't know anything [TS]

00:24:12   about it I don't like it I'm going to [TS]

00:24:14   say about the evidence mounts that like [TS]

00:24:16   I'm not seeking out information about [TS]

00:24:18   this enterprise but every new as you say [TS]

00:24:21   post-it note of information about this [TS]

00:24:23   is not making me feel positive about [TS]

00:24:25   this and that accumulates right it does [TS]

00:24:27   it accumulates and then then Oh Miley [TS]

00:24:30   Cyrus is reinventing herself now she's a [TS]

00:24:32   bad girl well I don't like that i don't [TS]

00:24:34   like that the disney girl is now [TS]

00:24:36   reinventing herself as a bad girl i just [TS]

00:24:38   dont thats I don't care about it but I [TS]

00:24:40   don't I don't [TS]

00:24:41   it is don't like it and then that [TS]

00:24:43   performance where she twerked at the [TS]

00:24:46   finest where she she did a little dance [TS]

00:24:49   with the finger [TS]

00:24:50   yeah from finger and stuff yeah right at [TS]

00:24:54   and she was with the blurred lines guy [TS]

00:24:57   yes I didn't even see it i just saw it [TS]

00:25:01   talked about in the in the the [TS]

00:25:04   chattering culture it was very [TS]

00:25:06   uncomfortable watch but I didn't like it [TS]

00:25:09   i didn't like the conversation about it [TS]

00:25:11   i didn't like the pictures that I saw of [TS]

00:25:13   it it made me uncomfortable so going [TS]

00:25:18   into all of that this friend of mine is [TS]

00:25:22   like you're not going to believe what [TS]

00:25:23   I'm doing right now i'm working on the [TS]

00:25:25   miley cyrus tour [TS]

00:25:27   and i said i will go to this and he said [TS]

00:25:31   great you got two passes see you at the [TS]

00:25:33   show and so I spent the afternoon trying [TS]

00:25:38   to get somebody to go with me to the [TS]

00:25:40   show and I asked at a handful of friends [TS]

00:25:45   that are usually game if I want to go [TS]

00:25:49   see Michael Schenker or if I want to go [TS]

00:25:51   see a monster truck rally or if I want [TS]

00:25:54   to go to it you know a motocross race [TS]

00:25:57   and all of my like go to show buddies [TS]

00:26:03   were like what no way like it'll be fun [TS]

00:26:07   it'll be funny we'll go see my Miley [TS]

00:26:09   Cyrus will be like hilarious and they [TS]

00:26:11   were like no action absolutely not [TS]

00:26:13   and there was a different kind of [TS]

00:26:15   pushback like no I draw the line here [TS]

00:26:18   there's nothing funny about this and it [TS]

00:26:23   was this like I can go to a Klan rally [TS]

00:26:25   or something yeah right like if there [TS]

00:26:27   was an end and an increased my [TS]

00:26:29   perception that there was this negative [TS]

00:26:33   this kind of knee-jerk negative feeling [TS]

00:26:38   about her this take on her that [TS]

00:26:41   everybody has that increased my desire [TS]

00:26:46   to go so that if it was a stormy night [TS]

00:26:48   last night there was a there were a lot [TS]

00:26:50   of reasons why it's a you know 45 miles [TS]

00:26:54   to tacoma lot of reasons why i normally [TS]

00:26:56   would have said i'm not sure i'm just [TS]

00:26:58   not going to do this but I was like no [TS]

00:27:00   you know what I'm going to go see this [TS]

00:27:01   Miley Cyrus concert because now i'm [TS]

00:27:05   suspicious i'm suspicious of my own bias [TS]

00:27:09   against this person because I'm seeing [TS]

00:27:12   it reflected in all these other people [TS]

00:27:13   and I'm and I realizing like I don't [TS]

00:27:16   know anything about miley cyrus why do I [TS]

00:27:19   feel so strongly that this that this [TS]

00:27:22   girl who stick your tongue out is like [TS]

00:27:24   this thing then isn't just bad it's like [TS]

00:27:27   it's like a despicable and cultural [TS]

00:27:32   Anathem yeah right so I get in my car [TS]

00:27:35   and I Drive down there and I and I [TS]

00:27:37   parking I'm I'm [TS]

00:27:39   I'm walking to the show and it's just [TS]

00:27:40   sheets of rain and all around me on the [TS]

00:27:43   streets are girls dressed very [TS]

00:27:50   provocatively and they are all I mean I [TS]

00:27:56   was expecting it to be a bunch of [TS]

00:27:57   ten-year-olds and you know like hannah [TS]

00:27:59   montana ten-year-old type of thing and [TS]

00:28:02   and some and some preteens or whatever [TS]

00:28:04   but everybody is 20 [TS]

00:28:08   everywhere I look everyone is 20 years [TS]

00:28:10   old and they're all dressed like ready [TS]

00:28:15   sexy but but it's a sister rainstorm a [TS]

00:28:21   cold rain storm so there's a lot of [TS]

00:28:25   shrieking and soar high heel running to [TS]

00:28:28   get to the venue everybody's covering [TS]

00:28:30   their hair with their plastic bags and [TS]

00:28:34   I'm walking up i'm in my life I'm well [TS]

00:28:37   protected in my raincoat and dad hat [TS]

00:28:40   I'm like I am really I'm really wrong [TS]

00:28:45   here like this is going to be weird and [TS]

00:28:49   wrong but i did I made no attempt to [TS]

00:28:52   look like Claire that your buyers is [TS]

00:28:56   myself [TS]

00:28:57   ok by myself actually I was carrying a [TS]

00:29:00   walking stick that some bells on [TS]

00:29:04   at first I was worried about that yet in [TS]

00:29:09   the Hat notice that a jolly little [TS]

00:29:12   pockets too many Reynolds jingle stick [TS]

00:29:15   at me and said ah [TS]

00:29:18   so i get to the venue and I walk in just [TS]

00:29:24   as she takes the stage and there's a [TS]

00:29:28   giant you know 10-story tall picture of [TS]

00:29:31   miley cyrus and the mouth opens on the [TS]

00:29:35   picture somehow like the the jaw opens [TS]

00:29:38   in a kind of almost Monty Python right [TS]

00:29:42   way and a giant tongue unfurls out of [TS]

00:29:47   the mouth and reveals itself to be a [TS]

00:29:50   slide and then miley cyrus appears in [TS]

00:29:54   her own mouth waves to the crowd and [TS]

00:29:59   then slides down her own giant tongue up [TS]

00:30:02   to the stage and I'm I'm standing I died [TS]

00:30:07   i'm standing in a wet raincoat watching [TS]

00:30:10   this and I'm thinking oh ok [TS]

00:30:14   what the fuck is this like that is a [TS]

00:30:17   that's kind of a bad trip almost like [TS]

00:30:20   that's a that's a heavy that's a heavy [TS]

00:30:22   trip if I were if this were 20 years ago [TS]

00:30:26   and and i took my usual regimen of [TS]

00:30:31   pre-concert hallucinogens I would be [TS]

00:30:35   really freaking out right now that's a [TS]

00:30:38   heavy image a lot a lot for the mind to [TS]

00:30:42   to take in and she starts walking around [TS]

00:30:44   the stage and I go looking for my [TS]

00:30:45   looking for my seat and I realize I'm in [TS]

00:30:49   a stadium and both the average age and [TS]

00:30:53   the mean age is 24 [TS]

00:30:55   there's no variation there's no one I [TS]

00:30:59   mean that i can see no one that is 30 [TS]

00:31:03   and no one that is 15 [TS]

00:31:06   it's like I've never I i can't i can't [TS]

00:31:09   think of a time that I've ever been in a [TS]

00:31:11   room with with the eight to ten thousand [TS]

00:31:16   twenty year old girls [TS]

00:31:19   and they are uh you know really like [TS]

00:31:24   digging the show and like i said so i [TS]

00:31:27   get to my seat and it turns out I'm i [TS]

00:31:29   have a front-row seat you have reserved [TS]

00:31:33   seating [TS]

00:31:34   well yeah the myoga she compu a really [TS]

00:31:36   good see ya my friends just like you [TS]

00:31:38   here here's your tickets and it's like [TS]

00:31:40   I'm front row of the of the seating give [TS]

00:31:43   a beard right now I do have a beer that [TS]

00:31:45   and i have sort of went uncut hair i was [TS]

00:31:51   wearing my kim jong ill glasses so I my [TS]

00:31:55   you know by like north korean [TS]

00:31:57   functionary classes and then every other [TS]

00:32:00   aspect of my attire was like basically [TS]

00:32:04   stern dad they may be checked my jingle [TS]

00:32:09   stick and i watch this entire show in [TS]

00:32:16   other amazement at how I mean because my [TS]

00:32:21   my first instinct every new thing that [TS]

00:32:24   came out every new set piece every like [TS]

00:32:27   thing she was pushing my first instinct [TS]

00:32:30   was oh my god no [TS]

00:32:34   and then in the course of the tune it [TS]

00:32:38   was revealed that in fact Miley Cyrus is [TS]

00:32:43   completely in control of the of every [TS]

00:32:46   aspect of her presentation in her career [TS]

00:32:49   she is like overwhelmingly positive [TS]

00:32:55   everybody in the place is having an [TS]

00:32:57   overwhelmingly positive time and the the [TS]

00:33:02   takeaway from the show was like this was [TS]

00:33:05   the most like in culturally interesting [TS]

00:33:11   and and dare I say it empowering kind of [TS]

00:33:16   show of its type that I could ever [TS]

00:33:22   remember seeing I don't think there was [TS]

00:33:23   ever a Madonna concert that was that was [TS]

00:33:25   this casually empowering you know it was [TS]

00:33:30   extraordinary [TS]

00:33:31   and I came out of there just I mean [TS]

00:33:33   really like now not just with the whole [TS]

00:33:36   new impression of what Miley Cyrus is [TS]

00:33:38   and represents but like a real push back [TS]

00:33:43   on my own cultural instincts now through [TS]

00:33:48   like two and i think i feel i feel like [TS]

00:33:51   the entire culture is the kind of lined [TS]

00:33:53   up to dismiss her and as a result she [TS]

00:33:57   has this she has this real credibility [TS]

00:34:01   with 20 year old girls who she is a 20 [TS]

00:34:06   year old girl and she has a she has a [TS]

00:34:10   direct line to them and is talking to [TS]

00:34:13   them directly and they are responding to [TS]

00:34:16   her directly and there's no no one else [TS]

00:34:19   is allowed in almost you know her show [TS]

00:34:22   is too dirty for teens so like the katy [TS]

00:34:27   perry show make sure not to be too scary [TS]

00:34:32   because she's trying to get all the [TS]

00:34:33   tenants it's very--it's saucy but it [TS]

00:34:36   doesn't inhabit that level of like back [TS]

00:34:39   in aliens spectacle right exact sounds [TS]

00:34:42   it sounds like it like that like a [TS]

00:34:43   spectacle [TS]

00:34:44   it's an absolute spectacle and like [TS]

00:34:46   there are there are just way more [TS]

00:34:48   vaginas in miley cyrus show then you are [TS]

00:34:52   going to see in a normal presentation [TS]

00:34:56   but they but it's not as that's like [TS]

00:35:00   elements of set design or just yeah yeah [TS]

00:35:03   it's just like I mean the beastie boys [TS]

00:35:05   come out with the giant set of [TS]

00:35:06   inflatable boobs or Mick Jagger's [TS]

00:35:09   bouncing around on a huge blow-up [TS]

00:35:11   microphone and Miley Cyrus effectively [TS]

00:35:14   has no there are a lot of blow up [TS]

00:35:17   animals in her show and some of them are [TS]

00:35:21   I mean some of the visuals were fully [TS]

00:35:24   into the realm of this is that this is [TS]

00:35:29   trippy trippy shit that is I could I [TS]

00:35:35   kept coming back to like if I had taken [TS]

00:35:37   some mushrooms before the show I would [TS]

00:35:39   be weeping [TS]

00:35:40   [Music] [TS]

00:35:41   but left process with no coffee well a [TS]

00:35:44   lot of processes with that with no copy [TS]

00:35:46   and also this like cultural mash of [TS]

00:35:50   japanese anime punk rock metal rap a [TS]

00:35:56   country and YouTube culture photoshop [TS]

00:36:03   little gerbil they're less kind of sex [TS]

00:36:06   worker stuff to the right hold total [TS]

00:36:08   pole-dancing seen all the time like [TS]

00:36:12   every every physical gesture is derived [TS]

00:36:16   either from pole dancing working or uh I [TS]

00:36:21   mean but like a 21 year olds sense of [TS]

00:36:25   what sex is [TS]

00:36:26   and I mean I would have walked into that [TS]

00:36:27   is not a modern 21 year olds idea right [TS]

00:36:30   if you if you would put a microphone in [TS]

00:36:32   front of me as I'm walking in there been [TS]

00:36:34   a reporter that was like you there with [TS]

00:36:36   the jingle stick c'mere [TS]

00:36:38   what are you going into the miley cyrus [TS]

00:36:40   show you know what do you think she's [TS]

00:36:41   sexy [TS]

00:36:42   I would have said the 21 year old girl [TS]

00:36:45   is not sexy she's skinny and she doesn't [TS]

00:36:48   know like what you don't know how to [TS]

00:36:49   have sex [TS]

00:36:50   she's a she's a she's a child but coming [TS]

00:36:54   out of that show i'm like 'oh 21 year [TS]

00:36:56   olds know how to have sex what was I [TS]

00:36:58   thinking [TS]

00:36:58   21 year olds I mean they don't uh maybe [TS]

00:37:04   they aren't like all experts at it but [TS]

00:37:06   they're not she's not a child she's 21 [TS]

00:37:09   you know she's she is a lot older than [TS]

00:37:13   me a pharaoh was when she married stank [TS]

00:37:16   Sinatra so so yeah we're coming so [TS]

00:37:21   coming away from but that but but but [TS]

00:37:23   but my mind was trying to process this [TS]

00:37:26   torrent of images that was a complete [TS]

00:37:33   like well basically if you allow me a [TS]

00:37:37   fruit juice of all of basically [TS]

00:37:42   everything the culture has produced you [TS]

00:37:45   know African drumming uh-uh-uh [TS]

00:37:50   enough videos when do Williams uh you [TS]

00:37:54   know like and it's all happening like [TS]

00:37:56   boom boom boom and I don't think [TS]

00:38:00   everybody in the audience knows what [TS]

00:38:03   every references to but in a way they do [TS]

00:38:07   in a way they're much more attuned to [TS]

00:38:10   this this tour this torrent of micro [TS]

00:38:14   image and you anymore more comfortable [TS]

00:38:16   with that like a mirage of iconography [TS]

00:38:18   knowing that is iconography yeah very [TS]

00:38:20   comfortable with it not you know they [TS]

00:38:23   are not sitting there like borderline [TS]

00:38:25   grand mal seizure like like I was but [TS]

00:38:29   also i don't and this is maybe part part [TS]

00:38:32   of what's interesting about it to me [TS]

00:38:34   like they are trying to parse every [TS]

00:38:35   image and part of what is making it [TS]

00:38:38   overwhelming to me as I'm like whoa and [TS]

00:38:41   I'm like I'm looking at every image and [TS]

00:38:43   I'm I'm its igniting this part of my [TS]

00:38:46   brain that has a cultural association [TS]

00:38:47   with it so I'm like what [TS]

00:38:49   oh hey what was that doing there were [TS]

00:38:51   Dirk and they're not doing that they're [TS]

00:38:55   just taking it in as a from a place of [TS]

00:39:01   like people pure sensation and and and [TS]

00:39:03   honestly unmitigated joy so the whole [TS]

00:39:10   the whole event was like a completely on [TS]

00:39:16   ironic no irony about it at all [TS]

00:39:19   there was no cynicism to it and this is [TS]

00:39:25   the net result was total positivity and [TS]

00:39:29   looking around the room at the eight to [TS]

00:39:32   ten thousand twenty year old girls all [TS]

00:39:34   dressed like sex workers you realize [TS]

00:39:40   that they are not dressing like that for [TS]

00:39:42   the male gaze because there are no men [TS]

00:39:45   here who they're dressing like this for [TS]

00:39:48   one another for their own pleasure and [TS]

00:39:53   in homage to Miley and she's dressing [TS]

00:39:58   like that for them [TS]

00:40:00   and and the the other amazing thing was [TS]

00:40:04   not a single person ever looked at me [TS]

00:40:06   like I was a creep like every single [TS]

00:40:09   person every single girl that made eye [TS]

00:40:11   contact with me which was hundreds and [TS]

00:40:14   hundreds of them they were they all [TS]

00:40:17   smiled and we're like high or excuse me [TS]

00:40:20   or you know like everyone was was polite [TS]

00:40:22   and I and I'd I never for a moment had [TS]

00:40:26   that feeling of like oh my god what are [TS]

00:40:28   you doing here like that that was absent [TS]

00:40:32   from the from the place [TS]

00:40:35   no booze no like no Satan worship I mean [TS]

00:40:41   it was I mean unless it's a very complex [TS]

00:40:44   and subtle Satan worship that that [TS]

00:40:47   everybody has read everybody read a [TS]

00:40:49   pamphlet before they went in explaining [TS]

00:40:52   that this was all in service of Satan [TS]

00:40:53   but I I didn't see it i saw just to [TS]

00:40:58   prove you know kind of joy [TS]

00:40:59   miley cyrus's joy of being 21 years old [TS]

00:41:01   rich and able to just do whatever she [TS]

00:41:05   wants i haven't been to many things like [TS]

00:41:09   that in my life [TS]

00:41:10   they were there are much clearer poles [TS]

00:41:13   to almost everything that I've ever gone [TS]

00:41:16   to that were about some kind of [TS]

00:41:17   differentiation or you know it certainly [TS]

00:41:20   punk rock shows but I'm maybe flaming [TS]

00:41:22   lips i'm trying to think of you know [TS]

00:41:23   like when they were first getting into [TS]

00:41:25   their I'll the spectacles that they will [TS]

00:41:28   put on a very positive and you know [TS]

00:41:30   freak friendly kind of stuff but this a [TS]

00:41:33   I I'm glad you went [TS]

00:41:35   it sounds like this is a good experience [TS]

00:41:36   for you it was i'm still I'm still [TS]

00:41:38   chewing on it you know and I and I did [TS]

00:41:42   not live tweet it as i was walking and I [TS]

00:41:45   was like I'm gonna live-tweet the shit [TS]

00:41:46   out of this Miley Cyrus concert it's [TS]

00:41:48   gonna be really hilarious on Twitter and [TS]

00:41:52   I got it and immediately I was like this [TS]

00:41:54   is so over my head that up to live tweet [TS]

00:41:58   it would be to do it and myself a [TS]

00:42:00   disservice like I'm not going to be I'm [TS]

00:42:03   not going to be out of this experience [TS]

00:42:04   i'm going to just be rooted in this [TS]

00:42:08   experience and try and like [TS]

00:42:13   figure out where it's coming from [TS]

00:42:15   because when I was that age when I was [TS]

00:42:17   her age or her fans age I was at [TS]

00:42:20   scorpions concepts and punk rock shows [TS]

00:42:24   and we were all dressed for one another [TS]

00:42:28   to in denim and leather and but the [TS]

00:42:34   average eight there was no average age [TS]

00:42:36   and scorpions concert it was me and you [TS]

00:42:38   let us see burnouts in their fifties and [TS]

00:42:40   you're stuck in that are way too young [TS]

00:42:42   to be there [TS]

00:42:43   sure it was mostly dudes or or almost [TS]

00:42:47   entirely dudes but but i love the whole [TS]

00:42:51   age range and what the Scorpions [TS]

00:42:54   represented what their message was i [TS]

00:42:59   mean i was i was forced to ask myself [TS]

00:43:00   last night was the Scorpions message [TS]

00:43:03   oh and they just essentially wanted to [TS]

00:43:06   know if you're ready to rock and roll i [TS]

00:43:07   think that's right yeah baby say we were [TS]

00:43:09   we were ready I was ready i was ready to [TS]

00:43:12   rock and roll look at me and I so you [TS]

00:43:17   know I was going to shows all the time [TS]

00:43:18   then and they were profoundly important [TS]

00:43:22   to me and I'm not and and they were a [TS]

00:43:26   lot less there was a lot less sensory [TS]

00:43:28   experience that there was last night at [TS]

00:43:31   the Miley Cyrus concert but that but [TS]

00:43:35   then of course you know I'm reflecting [TS]

00:43:36   like on the fact that my own daughter is [TS]

00:43:44   not even a member of this generation at [TS]

00:43:46   all these people [TS]

00:43:48   miley cyrus is going to be a mature and [TS]

00:43:53   legendary artist by the time my my [TS]

00:43:56   daughter is going to her first concerts [TS]

00:43:58   like Miley Cyrus will at that point b 25 [TS]

00:44:01   years into her career and so so this [TS]

00:44:06   experience does not even give me a [TS]

00:44:08   toehold on understanding what the [TS]

00:44:11   culture is going to be like and and the [TS]

00:44:14   degree to which I'm going to need to be [TS]

00:44:16   at least capable of experiencing [TS]

00:44:19   understanding the culture 15 years from [TS]

00:44:22   now [TS]

00:44:24   you're making me think of something that [TS]

00:44:28   is probably useful for me to think about [TS]

00:44:29   you know we talked a lot and use [TS]

00:44:31   especially talked a lot about this whole [TS]

00:44:33   the authenticity problem and how that [TS]

00:44:37   you know we've talked about and plenty [TS]

00:44:39   right i mean this whole thing of like [TS]

00:44:40   especially in rock-and-roll there's [TS]

00:44:41   always concern about you know who's [TS]

00:44:44   truly authentic who has more [TS]

00:44:46   authenticity you can you know display [TS]

00:44:48   that I mean who's closer to the blues [TS]

00:44:50   who's more rock and roll and it's funny [TS]

00:44:53   because I'm oh this is kind of a big [TS]

00:44:56   thought but you think about you know no [TS]

00:45:00   excuse me think about what happened in [TS]

00:45:02   like a post Dylan post Beatles era and [TS]

00:45:06   even if you were not doing your own [TS]

00:45:08   songs there was still a primacy to [TS]

00:45:11   creator to like artists created rock and [TS]

00:45:14   roll it was the idea that like I'm not [TS]

00:45:16   up your mouth and something that some [TS]

00:45:17   tin pan alley guy didn't less i'm doing [TS]

00:45:19   that for some kind of ironic point like [TS]

00:45:21   I'm here because I am the person who [TS]

00:45:23   made this show on the person who made [TS]

00:45:25   this song this is about my life and even [TS]

00:45:28   if it's not really about my life it [TS]

00:45:29   still is works in the service of a [TS]

00:45:31   certain kind of authenticity then [TS]

00:45:33   somebody's going straight back to Dillon [TS]

00:45:34   i think that's that's been I think it's [TS]

00:45:36   one because I'm trying to say is in [TS]

00:45:38   brief is that one reason a lot of stuff [TS]

00:45:40   like this is so confusing and weird to [TS]

00:45:43   people like me and presumably you is it [TS]

00:45:45   it's it's a this really is [TS]

00:45:46   generationally one of the first really [TS]

00:45:49   one of the first major generational [TS]

00:45:51   changes in popular music in quite a [TS]

00:45:53   while maybe even up through indie-rock [TS]

00:45:55   any rock is still heavily even today [TS]

00:45:58   still so heavily rooted in that [TS]

00:46:00   singer-songwriter tradition absolutely [TS]

00:46:02   in fact that I'm up here and I may be [TS]

00:46:03   playing the drums on somebody's a [TS]

00:46:04   motorcycle helmet but that's authentic [TS]

00:46:06   because we made this mean you know i'm [TS]

00:46:08   not going to put too fine a point on it [TS]

00:46:09   but i don't think that the way that you [TS]

00:46:12   and I have historically looked at the [TS]

00:46:13   way that our generation looked at that I [TS]

00:46:15   don't think that matters to people today [TS]

00:46:17   and that's not a judgment at all it's [TS]

00:46:19   just an observation [TS]

00:46:20   I think this is this is a it's it really [TS]

00:46:24   is its own thing she has put this team [TS]

00:46:25   together that or somebody put a team [TS]

00:46:28   together for her that is really [TS]

00:46:29   brilliantly leveraging the way things [TS]

00:46:31   have changed [TS]

00:46:32   in music and culture so like you know [TS]

00:46:35   we've talked so much before again about [TS]

00:46:37   like you work you put all this money [TS]

00:46:38   into making out and you talk about this [TS]

00:46:39   on when you're on my curly show you put [TS]

00:46:41   all this money into like making an album [TS]

00:46:43   and put it out [TS]

00:46:44   used to be you could you know if you're [TS]

00:46:45   Steve Miller you could ride on that for [TS]

00:46:47   a year to right or if you were you know [TS]

00:46:51   the Eagles or anybody you can get four [TS]

00:46:53   singles off an element or off it for a [TS]

00:46:55   year or two like you put out two hours [TS]

00:46:56   and 20 for two years [TS]

00:46:58   yeah and now today like people want this [TS]

00:47:00   constant dribble of culture that does [TS]

00:47:03   not facilitated by putting a hundred [TS]

00:47:05   thousand dollars into an album putting [TS]

00:47:06   it out and then just sitting around [TS]

00:47:07   waiting for the checks to arrive ok it's [TS]

00:47:09   a big it's a big issue but like it seems [TS]

00:47:11   like there are people today that are [TS]

00:47:12   much more comfortable going like hey I'm [TS]

00:47:13   putting out of a pop-culture product and [TS]

00:47:16   that doesn't make me a worse person than [TS]

00:47:18   you [TS]

00:47:18   I I this is this is a job that I do and [TS]

00:47:20   people love this and I'm going to [TS]

00:47:22   narrowcast this to these 20 year old [TS]

00:47:23   girls who love this and if you don't [TS]

00:47:25   like it that's okay but that's not gonna [TS]

00:47:27   make me do this differently and your [TS]

00:47:28   concerns about my about my authenticity [TS]

00:47:30   are going to are going to fall short of [TS]

00:47:32   their target because that's not even [TS]

00:47:34   what i'm trying to do i'm being me and [TS]

00:47:37   and me is this team of people in [TS]

00:47:38   production designers and songwriters and [TS]

00:47:40   musicians and lighting people that make [TS]

00:47:42   this kind of product that you know i'm [TS]

00:47:44   not going to make a quality but you know [TS]

00:47:46   what i mean i think that DVD see that [TS]

00:47:47   difference like you know it when are you [TS]

00:47:50   so much pushback on the punk-rock [TS]

00:47:51   article you so much pushback on the [TS]

00:47:53   whole I kind of authenticity thing like [TS]

00:47:55   you know and you know all along we've [TS]

00:47:58   all been trying to find the product that [TS]

00:48:01   like meets our needs and it sounds like [TS]

00:48:04   she's getting that two people here [TS]

00:48:06   well what was the last stop sucking up [TS]

00:48:09   to X no no that's that that's right in [TS]

00:48:12   line with exactly like where my mind was [TS]

00:48:14   going and where my mind is going trying [TS]

00:48:16   to trying to process it for myself [TS]

00:48:19   because also authenticity is a huge it [TS]

00:48:25   is is is a huge and maybe the singular [TS]

00:48:28   like cup criteria of hip-hop right like [TS]

00:48:35   hip-hop's whole trip is is it real are [TS]

00:48:41   you real [TS]

00:48:43   and I mean I don't know enough about [TS]

00:48:45   that culture to to critique it deeply [TS]

00:48:49   but the the the the gangster and sort of [TS]

00:48:56   authenticity trip that that is a heart [TS]

00:48:59   like the heart the hardcore nature of [TS]

00:49:01   this sure that scene has been you know [TS]

00:49:03   caught up in for almost its entire life [TS]

00:49:07   of me when you think about the original [TS]

00:49:08   hip-hop it was so Mary it was so pretty [TS]

00:49:13   like I was like party music party music [TS]

00:49:16   right and it was it was only not mean it [TS]

00:49:20   was only sort of run DMC is like tougher [TS]

00:49:24   than leather vibe that started to [TS]

00:49:27   establish that that eric b and rakim [TS]

00:49:31   direction where it was like no no this [TS]

00:49:34   is righteous and for a long time there [TS]

00:49:37   were those two sides of hip-hop right [TS]

00:49:38   the della soul over here that are [TS]

00:49:41   intellectual at but also fun and then [TS]

00:49:44   NWA just pushed it in well and Public [TS]

00:49:48   Enemy really pushed it in this thread i [TS]

00:49:50   mean like let's let's remember there was [TS]

00:49:52   a time when there were articles about [TS]

00:49:54   the feud between kool Moe Dee and MC [TS]

00:49:58   hammer huh [TS]

00:49:59   but I was more real who's more real I [TS]

00:50:01   think I think history will record that [TS]

00:50:04   in as much as that was a contest I guess [TS]

00:50:06   kool Moe Dee one but who was more real [TS]

00:50:09   than Hammer hammer was a ball boy for [TS]

00:50:12   the Oakland a right [TS]

00:50:14   like come on the right guy was like as [TS]

00:50:16   real as they come it's just that he's [TS]

00:50:18   wearing a Sinbad pants but you needed [TS]

00:50:21   but in all this cases with hip-hopper [TS]

00:50:23   anybody else but it is especially [TS]

00:50:24   hip-hop not really with all alone like [TS]

00:50:26   it's important that that that you that [TS]

00:50:28   that that be authentic so that you can [TS]

00:50:30   be authentic right you don't want to [TS]

00:50:32   follow somebody who's like a big poser [TS]

00:50:34   knows now there's a poser but last night [TS]

00:50:36   at the show [TS]

00:50:37   miley as part of the show hasn't as a [TS]

00:50:41   there's a middle section where she goes [TS]

00:50:44   out to a little stage that's way at the [TS]

00:50:47   back of the arena so she's playing for [TS]

00:50:49   the people in the cheap seats and this [TS]

00:50:52   is a little pop-up stage [TS]

00:50:54   it wasn't evident to anyone was there [TS]

00:50:56   and she's putting on this in enormous [TS]

00:50:57   spectacle and then all of a sudden she [TS]

00:50:59   disappears and you know multiple times [TS]

00:51:02   in the show she disappears in a little [TS]

00:51:03   elevator beneath the stage to change [TS]

00:51:05   costumes and there's and in the meantime [TS]

00:51:08   there's a big video show that's it in [TS]

00:51:11   some ways like the craziest part of the [TS]

00:51:12   show but all of a sudden she pops up at [TS]

00:51:15   this little mini stage dressed in a [TS]

00:51:19   total like glitz bboy outfit like a [TS]

00:51:24   glitter hat glitter baseball hat kind of [TS]

00:51:28   turned to the side giant sir Justin [TS]

00:51:30   Bieber t-shirt except instead of Justin [TS]

00:51:33   Bieber's face its miley's face [TS]

00:51:36   Sarah sure she's there with a giant [TS]

00:51:38   picture of herself on her shirt and like [TS]

00:51:43   dressed in a costume that immediately I [TS]

00:51:48   like again my instinct was I don't like [TS]

00:51:51   that i don't like that costume [TS]

00:51:53   it looks like something the fly girls [TS]

00:51:55   would wear on living color and I don't [TS]

00:51:58   like it it's at its appropriated from [TS]

00:52:01   something that I I didn't like the thing [TS]

00:52:04   initially and now I don't like the [TS]

00:52:06   appropriation of but she gets out on [TS]

00:52:09   this little stage in this outfit and [TS]

00:52:11   does two covers she does a downtempo [TS]

00:52:15   acoustic cover of hey who that was for [TS]

00:52:22   the most part like a very cool indie [TS]

00:52:28   rock cover if I if I had heard tegan and [TS]

00:52:31   sara do it before if i had heard st. [TS]

00:52:34   Vincent do this cover of hey yeah i [TS]

00:52:37   would have been like that's great great [TS]

00:52:40   great sad song and it was very sad too [TS]

00:52:43   and frankly watching Miley Cyrus I had [TS]

00:52:46   to say that's amazing [TS]

00:52:48   like that's great that she is cease [TS]

00:52:50   singing hey yeah right now and it's [TS]

00:52:53   making me sad and that's tremendous [TS]

00:52:57   I mean she's doing it in an arena and [TS]

00:53:00   she's got a picture of herself on her [TS]

00:53:02   shirt and i'm i'm i'm genuinely moved [TS]

00:53:06   and then her second cover is a [TS]

00:53:08   full-throated just straight ahead honest [TS]

00:53:13   cover of Jolene that the belly part in [TS]

00:53:17   song [TS]

00:53:18   yeah wow just at the top of her lungs [TS]

00:53:20   just Jolene job and I'm like let's [TS]

00:53:25   fucking incredible like that's it [TS]

00:53:27   that isn't that is an amazing tin and [TS]

00:53:30   sung by someone who obviously has been [TS]

00:53:33   singing it since she was a little kid [TS]

00:53:34   and there's no there's no reference made [TS]

00:53:40   there's no wink in it it's like sad [TS]

00:53:45   country version of Hey Ya full-throated [TS]

00:53:48   version of Jolene and then back to the [TS]

00:53:52   stripper show and at no point does [TS]

00:53:58   anyone stop for a millisecond and go see [TS]

00:54:04   what we did there because it's because [TS]

00:54:08   that element of it is gone and that [TS]

00:54:10   whole see what we did there [TS]

00:54:12   impulse is still tied to this [TS]

00:54:15   authenticity question that you or [TS]

00:54:18   problem that you pose is a slideshow of [TS]

00:54:20   poor kids in Mississippi or vintage [TS]

00:54:22   photos of Dolly Parton nope there's no [TS]

00:54:25   there's no like we are putting country [TS]

00:54:28   and hip hop together we are put in we [TS]

00:54:31   are doing these things because we are we [TS]

00:54:34   are smarter than these things and we are [TS]

00:54:37   able to manipulate these building blocks [TS]

00:54:40   of culture and art we and appreciate us [TS]

00:54:44   for that as the you know and that's the [TS]

00:54:47   authenticity argument ultimately is like [TS]

00:54:51   I know I'm a white kid playing the blues [TS]

00:54:54   but I'm but I'm my acknowledgement of it [TS]

00:54:57   my recognition that I'm doing it is [TS]

00:55:00   makes it forgivable makes me miss you [TS]

00:55:04   know you should admire me not because [TS]

00:55:07   not just because of what I'm making but [TS]

00:55:09   also because of my intention myself [TS]

00:55:12   knowledge my my purpose my [TS]

00:55:16   you know all of these secondary [TS]

00:55:18   questions that are that are threaded [TS]

00:55:22   through the question of authenticity and [TS]

00:55:25   their-their wasn't any of that there's [TS]

00:55:27   no there's no you or if your if that's [TS]

00:55:29   in there it's just now [TS]

00:55:31   it permeates the culture to the degree [TS]

00:55:33   that no one has to do it anymore [TS]

00:55:35   we all know that we all know everything [TS]

00:55:37   we all know that there's no difference [TS]

00:55:39   between you know like the message of her [TS]

00:55:41   show is uh there's no difference between [TS]

00:55:43   people and there's no difference between [TS]

00:55:46   things there's no like african drumming [TS]

00:55:50   in Japanese imagery belong together [TS]

00:55:52   because everything is possible all the [TS]

00:55:55   time so look what I made and I can't [TS]

00:56:03   find fault with it [TS]

00:56:04   yeah anyway I'll something I think about [TS]

00:56:09   a lot on what you know drag this out i [TS]

00:56:11   think it's it's it is fascinating and [TS]

00:56:12   I'm glad you talked about it because [TS]

00:56:15   it's and I'm glad you went [TS]

00:56:17   what do you think about a lot when I'm [TS]

00:56:20   watching a TV show or a movie that I [TS]

00:56:23   think also applies a lot to pop music is [TS]

00:56:27   for example if you're watching doctor [TS]

00:56:28   who you're watching star wars you're [TS]

00:56:29   watching any kind of a show i think it's [TS]

00:56:31   always interesting to watch for sort of [TS]

00:56:33   like who were supposed to sympathize [TS]

00:56:35   with to the point where maybe better [TS]

00:56:38   like who we want to be in this thing so [TS]

00:56:40   i can doctor who [TS]

00:56:41   a lot of people talk about Doctor Who I [TS]

00:56:43   usually has a companion often a woman [TS]

00:56:44   somebody's with them who's sometimes as [TS]

00:56:46   little as just the doctor what's [TS]

00:56:48   happening here and give them reason to [TS]

00:56:50   explain it but can also be very an [TS]

00:56:52   emotional connection that's just short [TS]

00:56:54   of romantic a lot of the time but [TS]

00:56:56   there's something we're like there's [TS]

00:56:57   some character in this where you're [TS]

00:56:58   supposed to see yourself right there [TS]

00:57:01   that you are you are the person on this [TS]

00:57:03   journey I think this is probably with [TS]

00:57:04   Lord of the Rings and Star Wars maybe [TS]

00:57:06   that's look Skywalker an episode for you [TS]

00:57:09   know what I mean there's always somebody [TS]

00:57:10   that you're supposed to sympathize with [TS]

00:57:12   you just say episode 4 and I'm sorry [TS]

00:57:14   that's what's officially what's called [TS]

00:57:16   come on it's officially called a new [TS]

00:57:18   hope [TS]

00:57:18   dude this is a safe space here okay we [TS]

00:57:22   don't have to you don't have to like [TS]

00:57:24   talk to cult language here it's this [TS]

00:57:27   this is not a couple more just [TS]

00:57:29   star wards Star Wars is what it's called [TS]

00:57:32   she's like some values it's called Star [TS]

00:57:34   Wars the Justicar or consent but the [TS]

00:57:37   story's gets really interesting in pop [TS]

00:57:39   music because like Who am I supposed to [TS]

00:57:42   obviously you're there because you buy [TS]

00:57:44   larger there unless you really are at [TS]

00:57:46   some gritty you know british punk rock [TS]

00:57:47   show [TS]

00:57:48   you're there because you like that [TS]

00:57:49   performer you like what they do you [TS]

00:57:52   probably you kind of want to be them [TS]

00:57:55   sort of writing i mean you want to be [TS]

00:57:57   the more you want to be with them maybe [TS]

00:57:58   you want to kiss them but like there's [TS]

00:58:00   something to it where like you see [TS]

00:58:02   yourself and I think this is where the [TS]

00:58:03   authenticity thing on its authenticity [TS]

00:58:05   thing has been such a bugbear in the [TS]

00:58:07   past is it's difficult for us to want to [TS]

00:58:09   be close minor if we feel like class my [TS]

00:58:11   name is not authentic right well you [TS]

00:58:14   know what I'm saying [TS]

00:58:14   and in this instance it you know it [TS]

00:58:16   sounds like she's pretty unabashed about [TS]

00:58:18   saying like you want to be me and I want [TS]

00:58:20   to be you like we're realize you say we [TS]

00:58:23   are doing this for each other which I [TS]

00:58:25   think to do that in a way that is guy [TS]

00:58:27   listen again I I don't overstate this I [TS]

00:58:29   wasn't there but to do that in a way [TS]

00:58:31   that it's guyless is is pretty unusual [TS]

00:58:33   for stuff that I've been to in the past [TS]

00:58:35   they would be a little fruity for me to [TS]

00:58:37   say Oh John John Roderick is so dreamy i [TS]

00:58:39   wish i could sink our parts or you know [TS]

00:58:42   I guess Jagger or whatever but i think [TS]

00:58:45   that's that's such a big piece of this [TS]

00:58:47   is like wanting to see ourselves up [TS]

00:58:49   there and wanted to see see what it [TS]

00:58:51   would be like to be that person so I [TS]

00:58:53   don't need to get our own bars but I [TS]

00:58:55   mean like for her to be up there in the [TS]

00:58:57   equivalent of like what somebody would [TS]

00:58:59   wear in a hip-hop caprisun commercial [TS]

00:59:01   with her being that guy right with her [TS]

00:59:04   shirt with their own face on it [TS]

00:59:06   well that's because that's that that [TS]

00:59:07   could be you you want that to be you [TS]

00:59:09   so when you go out and you wear that [TS]

00:59:10   shirt you doing the same thing that she [TS]

00:59:11   did and it's it's it's got like a [TS]

00:59:14   one-to-one relationship i don't know i [TS]

00:59:18   don't that make sense but again that's [TS]

00:59:19   the kind of thing where like the last [TS]

00:59:20   thing in a million years that you would [TS]

00:59:22   say as a cool rock fan is like man I [TS]

00:59:26   really want to be Michael Stipe that [TS]

00:59:29   would have not been a very cool thing to [TS]

00:59:31   say in 1984 probably although I probably [TS]

00:59:32   would've set it to be honest but you [TS]

00:59:35   know what i mean it sounds like those [TS]

00:59:36   you felt like the least from your [TS]

00:59:38   perspective with your with your paycheck [TS]

00:59:40   jingle stick [TS]

00:59:41   that that the those barriers or not [TS]

00:59:43   they're in a way they were 20 years ago [TS]

00:59:44   for us [TS]

00:59:45   well I and a so much of it is is in the [TS]

00:59:49   visual culture now that the watching the [TS]

00:59:53   watching the this ponopolis of images [TS]

00:59:58   unfold at [TS]

00:59:58   unfold at [TS]

01:00:00   realizing that that like we are living [TS]

01:00:06   in a selfie culture now I was having a [TS]

01:00:07   conversation with somebody on the phone [TS]

01:00:09   the other day and I realized that they [TS]

01:00:12   had never taken a selfie because they [TS]

01:00:15   were an old person and I said you really [TS]

01:00:19   need to really need to get past the [TS]

01:00:22   barrier here and i took a picture myself [TS]

01:00:25   and I was like see here's a selfie i'm [TS]

01:00:27   just i'm driving in my car i'm taking a [TS]

01:00:29   picture here's a picture of me what how [TS]

01:00:31   do you feel about that and they were [TS]

01:00:32   like I you know I'm it's really nice to [TS]

01:00:35   see a picture of you I'm really like [TS]

01:00:37   they they had all psychological barriers [TS]

01:00:41   to taking a selfie that were all related [TS]

01:00:44   to shame about self-aggrandizement she's [TS]

01:00:51   antithetical to pretty much everything I [TS]

01:00:53   I grew up with you don't take your own [TS]

01:00:55   picture right right it's really that's a [TS]

01:00:58   very weird thing to do that for a long [TS]

01:01:00   time not to beat this to death but [TS]

01:01:02   people who look like they wanted to be [TS]

01:01:04   perceived as sex workers with two for a [TS]

01:01:06   long time it used to be that that was [TS]

01:01:07   just the domain of girls who took 45 [TS]

01:01:09   pictures of themselves in the bathroom [TS]

01:01:11   mirror until they got the one that they [TS]

01:01:12   like and now today everybody John [TS]

01:01:14   Hodgman can't stop [TS]

01:01:15   well anyone stop Frank frankly frankly [TS]

01:01:19   no one can stop now like it we we have [TS]

01:01:22   crossed the Rubicon and selfies are our [TS]

01:01:28   up of form of art selfies are part of [TS]

01:01:32   our awareness of ourselves and I mean I [TS]

01:01:36   knew people who would get a roll of film [TS]

01:01:39   back from the drugstore and like throw [TS]

01:01:42   away the pictures of themselves just [TS]

01:01:44   because even owning a picture of [TS]

01:01:46   themselves taken by somebody else was [TS]

01:01:49   too much vanity for them it's like it's [TS]

01:01:52   like it's like it's like asking for your [TS]

01:01:54   own autograph it it doesn't you need a [TS]

01:01:57   second party for that to make sense yeah [TS]

01:01:59   right and you you take the pictures of [TS]

01:02:01   you and you give them to other people [TS]

01:02:03   because why would you want to look at a [TS]

01:02:04   picture of yourself but now the the [TS]

01:02:09   culture has you know completely embraced [TS]

01:02:12   the idea that [TS]

01:02:13   pictures of yourself that taking [TS]

01:02:16   thousands of pictures of yourself is a [TS]

01:02:21   like is a way of exploring your identity [TS]

01:02:25   and and understanding your ego and and [TS]

01:02:28   basking in it and what's missing is the [TS]

01:02:33   shame that we used to feel about it and [TS]

01:02:36   so watching this watching the show last [TS]

01:02:38   night in this cascade of images and a [TS]

01:02:40   lot of pictures of miley cyrus in her [TS]

01:02:43   own show including on her own t-shirt [TS]

01:02:45   and including at the beginning when she [TS]

01:02:47   literally slides out of her own mouth [TS]

01:02:49   [Music] [TS]

01:02:50   it's still can't get over that in and I [TS]

01:02:52   don't and I'm not sure when they were [TS]

01:02:54   thinking about when they were thinking [TS]

01:02:55   it up it was like yes that's amazing but [TS]

01:02:57   they're obviously either they have an [TS]

01:02:59   incredible do they have no on staff [TS]

01:03:02   theorists or they have an incredible on [TS]

01:03:03   staff the earliest was just like yes [TS]

01:03:05   definitely slide down your own tongue [TS]

01:03:08   that is fucking great [TS]

01:03:10   you know like somebody is that I think I [TS]

01:03:13   feel like maybe her choreographer and [TS]

01:03:16   her show runner are both like art phd's [TS]

01:03:22   or something I mean it really feels like [TS]

01:03:23   there's that much [TS]

01:03:25   there's that much intention behind some [TS]

01:03:27   of this stuff that's just like that [TS]

01:03:29   couldn't be an accident but but this [TS]

01:03:32   cascade of images is being received by [TS]

01:03:38   an audience of people who are who are so [TS]

01:03:43   much more comfortable with images of [TS]

01:03:46   themselves and like I mean one of the [TS]

01:03:51   best bits in them in the miley show was [TS]

01:03:53   she's added out on the runway and she's [TS]

01:03:54   just grabbing people's phones and like [TS]

01:03:56   video taping herself for a second and [TS]

01:03:58   handing the phone back to them and which [TS]

01:04:00   is kinda like an autograph right and an [TS]

01:04:03   amazing gift to give to somebody who [TS]

01:04:05   you're a Miley Cyrus fan enough that you [TS]

01:04:06   are right up against the stage and she [TS]

01:04:08   grabs your phone and touches it with [TS]

01:04:09   their own hand and like makes a little [TS]

01:04:11   personal video for you and hands it back [TS]

01:04:13   and so it's just like fan for life but [TS]

01:04:16   also like what is that [TS]

01:04:20   like I I do feel like every everyone in [TS]

01:04:23   the audience is putting themselves in [TS]

01:04:25   her shape because they all can make [TS]

01:04:30   videos of themselves they're making [TS]

01:04:32   videos of themselves right now and those [TS]

01:04:36   videos are part of the unassisted I [TS]

01:04:40   guess this is what I walked away with we [TS]

01:04:43   always thought at the dawn of the [TS]

01:04:45   Internet that I i think a lot of us [TS]

01:04:50   could see that here was the potential [TS]

01:04:53   for all of human knowledge to come to [TS]

01:04:57   one central clearinghouse we could [TS]

01:05:01   compare and contrast finally you didn't [TS]

01:05:04   have to go get lost in the stacks with [TS]

01:05:06   seven books open trying to figure out [TS]

01:05:08   like where the Koran and the Bible and [TS]

01:05:12   the bugger all the all the existing [TS]

01:05:14   stuff without whether mental model right [TS]

01:05:16   so we're going to mental model of the [TS]

01:05:17   library like you don't get to go in and [TS]

01:05:20   like scribbled a note book and put it on [TS]

01:05:21   the Shelf right we were going to this [TS]

01:05:24   was here was the internet and it was [TS]

01:05:26   going to be this place where we finally [TS]

01:05:28   had a consensus place and if we had and [TS]

01:05:34   this is kind of the this is the liberal [TS]

01:05:35   mentality like if we just get all the [TS]

01:05:39   information in one place then the truth [TS]

01:05:42   will be no and once we have all the [TS]

01:05:46   information and we have the truth that [TS]

01:05:49   we will be well then we will have [TS]

01:05:51   achieved Nirvana or you know then strife [TS]

01:05:53   will disappear because the truth is [TS]

01:05:55   available and the only reason that we [TS]

01:05:58   have wore the only reason that there is [TS]

01:06:00   you know that there is so much anger in [TS]

01:06:03   the world is that we don't we are [TS]

01:06:06   confused we don't know the truth this [TS]

01:06:08   person's angry he doesn't see the other [TS]

01:06:10   person's side etc etc and the internet [TS]

01:06:14   had this this enormous possibility [TS]

01:06:17   well what what we're in now i think is [TS]

01:06:21   this like post internet where yes all [TS]

01:06:26   the information is available [TS]

01:06:27   it's or or if you want [TS]

01:06:30   look for I mean it's all here and what [TS]

01:06:34   it has created is not this like this [TS]

01:06:39   intellectual underpinnings for this this [TS]

01:06:42   consensus in fact the culture is gone [TS]

01:06:45   the other direction and and all things [TS]

01:06:47   are equal and there is no consensus but [TS]

01:06:49   what it has produced is this art culture [TS]

01:06:52   where every single thing that's ever [TS]

01:06:56   been made is cut up and paste it back [TS]

01:07:00   together and there isn't a [TS]

01:07:04   differentiation between like the like [TS]

01:07:08   anime and tribal drumming and punk rock [TS]

01:07:14   group none of those things all just sit [TS]

01:07:17   is not just comfortably beside one [TS]

01:07:20   another but but as if they had always [TS]

01:07:22   been together and so in a sense it is [TS]

01:07:26   the achievement of like the sum total of [TS]

01:07:29   human knowledge all brought together but [TS]

01:07:31   it's happening in this mashup of music [TS]

01:07:37   and image rather than in this like sort [TS]

01:07:43   of bookish theoretical place and it's a [TS]

01:07:48   and I I guess I I it's not what I [TS]

01:07:52   expected but it is but it it it bodes I [TS]

01:07:57   guess it i guess it bodes well [TS]

01:07:59   like I'm excited to see what it produces [TS]

01:08:05   what I mean what I'm so excited to see [TS]

01:08:07   what that means [TS]

01:08:09   what is especially talking about your [TS]

01:08:10   daughter my daughter you know what it [TS]

01:08:12   means for somebody who didn't grow up [TS]

01:08:14   with this as a transitional thing or as [TS]

01:08:16   a new thing for somebody who for him [TS]

01:08:20   like somebody born today for whom Miley [TS]

01:08:21   Cyrus Cyrus sliding out of her own mouth [TS]

01:08:24   on her own tongue [TS]

01:08:26   is it something that's a mean it's not [TS]

01:08:28   like that's the craziest thing but no [TS]

01:08:30   although you have to see it really deny [TS]

01:08:32   I just now I it's really disturbing me [TS]

01:08:35   I've made Mick Jagger had done it at any [TS]

01:08:38   point it would I mean if he done it 25 [TS]

01:08:41   years ago we would that image would be [TS]

01:08:43   burned in my brain I'm thinking it's [TS]

01:08:44   just a 60 so then what I mean if you [TS]

01:08:47   think about this like somebody from [TS]

01:08:49   western China comes comes into the the [TS]

01:08:54   world now and says like I i play the one [TS]

01:08:57   string violin it is our it's that our [TS]

01:09:00   instruments the instrument of my uh my [TS]

01:09:04   people here in western China and it's [TS]

01:09:07   the you know it's it's our traditional [TS]

01:09:10   instrument and i am the master one [TS]

01:09:11   string violinist until very recently the [TS]

01:09:19   the response to that would have been to [TS]

01:09:22   give this guy show at carnegie hall or [TS]

01:09:24   or you know his record would be the new [TS]

01:09:26   NPR the kind of favorite or he would do [TS]

01:09:30   if he would do a world tour like look [TS]

01:09:31   what we found [TS]

01:09:33   look what what has been introduced to us [TS]

01:09:35   like you would have done something with [TS]

01:09:37   any better or if like when the monks [TS]

01:09:39   came to lollapalooza it would have been [TS]

01:09:40   some kind of like you know we're [TS]

01:09:42   sponsoring this culture [TS]

01:09:43   yeah look at this but this is this new [TS]

01:09:47   miley cyrus culture would just instantly [TS]

01:09:51   assimilate that may be like oh cool one [TS]

01:09:54   string violent guy you know like you're [TS]

01:09:58   his one string violin sound would be [TS]

01:10:02   automatically appropriated and like he [TS]

01:10:05   would he would get up and do a song with [TS]

01:10:07   miley cyrus but it wouldn't be like [TS]

01:10:09   they're what they wouldn't have that um [TS]

01:10:12   the reverence that we used to Accord [TS]

01:10:18   that kind of like here he is now going [TS]

01:10:20   to play his traditional music but [TS]

01:10:22   instead it would just be like that's a [TS]

01:10:23   cool sound that guy's cool looking [TS]

01:10:26   and in a way that's more I mean in a way [TS]

01:10:32   that just see that seems like a true [TS]

01:10:35   kind of globalism or like more in line [TS]

01:10:38   with the idea that all of humanity is [TS]

01:10:40   one that we are all on one course [TS]

01:10:44   together and that you know that I guess [TS]

01:10:48   that's my takeaway from this show is [TS]

01:10:50   like they're it [TS]

01:10:51   her message if there is one is that I [TS]

01:10:57   mean one planet one people almost and [TS]

01:11:01   and you should make some coffee job [TS]