Roderick on the Line

Ep. 96: "The Beautiful Thing About an Idea"


00:00:00   hello hi John who is it who's me at [TS]

00:00:11   hello hello faddah have sex but soaked [TS]

00:00:20   candygram for Mongo candygram for Mongo [TS]

00:00:24   I'm Merlin by John uh-huh [TS]

00:00:30   he's not awake yeah well I am awake i [TS]

00:00:35   woke up a while back and been busy doing [TS]

00:00:42   important high-level work here [TS]

00:00:44   no you're going to high-level today I'm [TS]

00:00:46   adjusting well you know i'm working at a [TS]

00:00:48   high level and the work I'm doing is [TS]

00:00:50   high-level work [TS]

00:00:51   wow that is a good monday yes it is [TS]

00:00:54   yes i'm hosting a show tonight which is [TS]

00:00:58   in the family of shows where i guess [TS]

00:01:03   that i mean i think when they pitch the [TS]

00:01:06   show to me they were like oh you don't [TS]

00:01:07   have to do any work you have to do [TS]

00:01:08   anything justjust to be up onstage and [TS]

00:01:11   and you know host whatever that is I [TS]

00:01:16   don't even know who they are but I'm [TS]

00:01:18   just gonna tell you they always say that [TS]

00:01:19   yeah but you know it seems like if [TS]

00:01:21   that's what they say [TS]

00:01:23   then I'm just gonna go to go on on their [TS]

00:01:26   say-so and could just show up but you're [TS]

00:01:29   gonna have to dress and get there and it [TS]

00:01:31   will probably remember things [TS]

00:01:33   mhm don't tell you that i do have to [TS]

00:01:35   remember a few things i do have to tell [TS]

00:01:37   you and MC yeah i think you know when I [TS]

00:01:42   was in high school I couldn't think of a [TS]

00:01:44   better job than MC like that seemed to [TS]

00:01:49   me to be the absolute pinnacle if you [TS]

00:01:52   had achieved everything in life you were [TS]

00:01:56   asked to be the MC [TS]

00:01:58   mhm because the MC is not the talent [TS]

00:02:01   he's not the is not the rookeries not [TS]

00:02:05   that he doesn't own the club AMC shows [TS]

00:02:09   up in a tuxedo he leaves in a tuxedo [TS]

00:02:12   but he's there he's at the center of [TS]

00:02:15   everything I really believed that MC was [TS]

00:02:18   the greatest job and as I got older and [TS]

00:02:22   put away childish things [TS]

00:02:24   mm I started to realize that MC is not [TS]

00:02:28   the greatest job i think it can be a [TS]

00:02:31   really good job first of all I know from [TS]

00:02:33   mutual friends of ours that it can be [TS]

00:02:35   weirdly lucrative given me once you get [TS]

00:02:38   good at it like given the amount of work [TS]

00:02:40   you actually have to do in terms of [TS]

00:02:42   preparation but you gotta do what you [TS]

00:02:44   gotta be careful for the first of all I [TS]

00:02:45   agree with you I think being an MC is is [TS]

00:02:47   awesome and I think it's more pressure [TS]

00:02:48   than most people realize [TS]

00:02:50   yeah because you have to be at least [TS]

00:02:51   familiar enough the pill go ladies and [TS]

00:02:52   gentlemen your master of ceremony is [TS]

00:02:54   draw in like yeah right there who all [TS]

00:02:58   right so they gotta know who you are but [TS]

00:03:00   then also you got to be careful i have a [TS]

00:03:02   friend who he got roped into it like [TS]

00:03:06   being like organizing the benefit for [TS]

00:03:10   his kids school and I think it was [TS]

00:03:12   presented to him is our friend we were [TS]

00:03:14   talking about that yesterday but you [TS]

00:03:16   know and they're like hey you're funny [TS]

00:03:17   you know funny people can you do this [TS]

00:03:20   benefit and of course nested in that job [TS]

00:03:24   on the one hand at the AMC job of like [TS]

00:03:25   show up [TS]

00:03:26   read something off a card and riff if [TS]

00:03:29   you have to fill time right and seem [TS]

00:03:31   enthusiastic about everything that [TS]

00:03:33   happens and then have a pithy remarks [TS]

00:03:35   about what just happened [TS]

00:03:36   that's kind of being an MC right yeah [TS]

00:03:37   yeah that sounds right about right but [TS]

00:03:40   have you know but as usual in in [TS]

00:03:42   everything including entertainment [TS]

00:03:43   there's a lot nested in that that [TS]

00:03:45   basically came down to like can you put [TS]

00:03:47   together a show [TS]

00:03:48   yes right things right get your get your [TS]

00:03:51   bigshot celebrity TV friends to come and [TS]

00:03:54   do this [TS]

00:03:54   yeah and it ends up being eight giant [TS]

00:03:57   unpaid project for people who are not [TS]

00:03:59   used to doing that kind of work you have [TS]

00:04:02   the the Big Show's I've MC the big [TS]

00:04:04   benefit shows that I'm emceed all fall [TS]

00:04:06   into the category as I've as I have [TS]

00:04:09   outlined elsewhere of that phenomenon [TS]

00:04:12   where the the people that put on 250 [TS]

00:04:16   shows a year send you one email and it [TS]

00:04:19   has all the information you need about [TS]

00:04:21   the show the people who put on One Show [TS]

00:04:24   a year said you 200 [TS]

00:04:25   50 emails and not a single one of them [TS]

00:04:28   has any information it's usable and so I [TS]

00:04:32   have emceed some big show some big [TS]

00:04:34   benefit galas for some worthwhile [TS]

00:04:38   organizations but but they end up being [TS]

00:04:42   such a clusterfuck of of too many piano [TS]

00:04:47   too many stage managers too many ideas [TS]

00:04:50   you know that i showed up I showed up to [TS]

00:04:52   one and they handed me a script that [TS]

00:04:55   they had written when I was old [TS]

00:04:58   yeah and I was like wow I would have [TS]

00:04:59   liked to have seen this yesterday [TS]

00:05:01   this is a full script this isn't just [TS]

00:05:05   like somehow this isn't an outline this [TS]

00:05:06   is like a full script so basically what [TS]

00:05:09   you have asked me to do is stand up on [TS]

00:05:11   stage and read this from this paper [TS]

00:05:13   because i have i have an hour and not in [TS]

00:05:16   your words [TS]

00:05:17   oh no you know just like Hello ladies [TS]

00:05:19   and germs and speaking and speaking of [TS]

00:05:23   troublesome plumbing problems you know [TS]

00:05:25   but tonight I think they are hiring [TS]

00:05:28   event tonight they have hired me to be [TS]

00:05:30   me which is a good that's a good gig but [TS]

00:05:34   you get that too often you can start [TS]

00:05:35   getting after it are getting hired to be [TS]

00:05:38   able to you know like to a certainty [TS]

00:05:41   like which you they think they're [TS]

00:05:43   getting well that's the thing i've done [TS]

00:05:46   a pretty pretty a work worthwhile job of [TS]

00:05:51   calibrating the people's idea of the [TS]

00:05:55   fake me you know like there's there's [TS]

00:05:58   there's a pretty good fake me out there [TS]

00:06:01   that everybody thinks is the real me and [TS]

00:06:04   so when somebody when somebody hires me [TS]

00:06:07   to be me [TS]

00:06:09   I assume they mean fake me uh-huh that I [TS]

00:06:12   have been carefully crafted fake me and [TS]

00:06:15   I show up as fake me if they think that [TS]

00:06:20   their iron me this section here about [TS]

00:06:23   the children tap-dancing can we switch [TS]

00:06:25   that out for about two-and-a-half hours [TS]

00:06:27   of me talking about united airlines [TS]

00:06:28   they're the people who who really are [TS]

00:06:34   hiring me and one actual mean I don't I [TS]

00:06:36   chooses there's not enough money in the [TS]

00:06:38   world [TS]

00:06:39   it reminds me a little bit of I haven't [TS]

00:06:42   had a whole lot of experience with you [TS]

00:06:45   know programming and development stuff [TS]

00:06:47   but certainly enough over the period [TS]

00:06:49   that I was doing it to know that they [TS]

00:06:51   are similar in one way which is people [TS]

00:06:53   have a really good idea in their head of [TS]

00:06:55   what the finished product looks like you [TS]

00:06:57   like you know an iOS app like a good i [TS]

00:07:00   OS app looks like you know how to really [TS]

00:07:01   good [TS]

00:07:02   well but you know like what a good stage [TS]

00:07:03   show looks like but you absolutely no [TS]

00:07:06   idea what goes into making that thing [TS]

00:07:08   oh right right no you don't want to see [TS]

00:07:10   this one through this we made your [TS]

00:07:12   website you you haven't really well and [TS]

00:07:13   you participated very aggressively in [TS]

00:07:16   handsomely and you and Sean both wrote a [TS]

00:07:18   lot of stuff you understood that it was [TS]

00:07:19   going to be I think if one thing one [TS]

00:07:21   small success i had with that site was [TS]

00:07:22   getting you understand that the Site was [TS]

00:07:24   going to be as good as what you [TS]

00:07:25   personally put into it otherwise it [TS]

00:07:27   would be just another bunch of files on [TS]

00:07:28   the internet and I think that actually [TS]

00:07:31   turned out really well I'm proud of that [TS]

00:07:32   site but you know when you go into [TS]

00:07:33   something like like this like you say [TS]

00:07:35   somebody who does it somebody if you [TS]

00:07:37   work with someone who's like you know a [TS]

00:07:39   production of producer type person you [TS]

00:07:41   something actually like deals with [TS]

00:07:43   people all the time knows what happens [TS]

00:07:44   knows what for knows what questions [TS]

00:07:46   people ask for used to afford me an [TS]

00:07:48   email you got it recently that was I [TS]

00:07:52   mean it was it was like it was like [TS]

00:07:55   heart of darkness [TS]

00:07:56   it was really really really long it was [TS]

00:07:59   kind of hard to tease out exactly the [TS]

00:08:01   information that they should have known [TS]

00:08:03   that you would want out of it [TS]

00:08:05   yeah well it's like that first time I [TS]

00:08:06   went to South by Southwest and I thought [TS]

00:08:08   though we were but we got done with our [TS]

00:08:10   our show and there was this huge crowd [TS]

00:08:13   of people standing right at the foot of [TS]

00:08:15   the stage like I'm trying to load my amp [TS]

00:08:17   off the stage and they're all these [TS]

00:08:18   people like waving their business cards [TS]

00:08:21   at me and I was thinking this is it I've [TS]

00:08:23   hit I like I'm just going to plug these [TS]

00:08:26   business cards and they're all going to [TS]

00:08:28   say [TS]

00:08:28   sony BMG and/or you know half of them [TS]

00:08:32   are probably going to be cashier's [TS]

00:08:34   checks this is like Obama at the [TS]

00:08:36   democratic convention in many years ago [TS]

00:08:39   that's right this is what your moment [TS]

00:08:40   this is here John's I have a dream [TS]

00:08:42   speech that's right this was a [TS]

00:08:43   career-making turn your first time at [TS]

00:08:45   South by back when south by really man [TS]

00:08:48   nerd and this was going to be the moment [TS]

00:08:50   and I and so I get off the stage and I'm [TS]

00:08:51   like Hello [TS]

00:08:52   nice to meet you all you know i'm i'm [TS]

00:08:54   like taking my time with each person I'm [TS]

00:08:56   looking at their business cards and [TS]

00:08:58   little by little it starts to dawn on me [TS]

00:09:00   after a half an hour that every one of [TS]

00:09:04   these business cards is like billion [TS]

00:09:06   francs record label out of Mobile [TS]

00:09:08   Alabama you can see the perforation [TS]

00:09:10   something car engine and you know and [TS]

00:09:13   that realization that like oh they came [TS]

00:09:15   to South by Southwest looking for the [TS]

00:09:17   band that was going to make their record [TS]

00:09:20   label viable not this isn't a moment [TS]

00:09:23   where I am you know where actual suits [TS]

00:09:26   are here to give me opportunities this [TS]

00:09:28   is like but it but it looks close enough [TS]

00:09:30   to that huh that I i see how people get [TS]

00:09:35   to see how people get rooked into [TS]

00:09:37   business relationships all the time [TS]

00:09:39   where it's like oh wait no you are gonna [TS]

00:09:41   help me right and I so I get emails like [TS]

00:09:44   that all the time where it's like we [TS]

00:09:45   would love to give you a big show and I [TS]

00:09:48   go okay well what's the deal and they're [TS]

00:09:50   like we'll all we need you to do is [TS]

00:09:51   promoted and devised it and sell it and [TS]

00:09:57   be the man of it and tell us how to do [TS]

00:10:00   it and also find the money for it and [TS]

00:10:04   just like you are not offering me [TS]

00:10:06   anything it's not like it's gonna get [TS]

00:10:08   going up to somebody and it love your [TS]

00:10:11   elevator pitch being i would like to [TS]

00:10:13   why would she would give me the honor of [TS]

00:10:16   letting me take you out to a really [TS]

00:10:18   really fancy dinner [TS]

00:10:20   that's kind of what the pitch feels [TS]

00:10:21   thanks but then you realize they don't [TS]

00:10:23   know how to cook [TS]

00:10:24   it's really that basically they want you [TS]

00:10:26   to have them over for dinner but never [TS]

00:10:28   been to a restaurant before you don't [TS]

00:10:29   know what happened is now now i know it [TS]

00:10:32   happens all the time now I feel like [TS]

00:10:34   that in my family [TS]

00:10:36   historiography there is at the core of [TS]

00:10:42   my father's family there is a similar [TS]

00:10:45   situation where like my grandmother was [TS]

00:10:50   my grandmother's family was an old [TS]

00:10:54   Seattle family that didn't have any [TS]

00:10:56   money they were the White Russians of [TS]

00:10:59   Seattle [TS]

00:10:59   all their friends were rich they lived [TS]

00:11:03   in a big house in the right neighborhood [TS]

00:11:04   but they didn't but they were uh how do [TS]

00:11:08   you say not rich and a grand [TS]

00:11:13   great-grandfather was a judge you know [TS]

00:11:16   that I think they they they said they [TS]

00:11:18   seem successful [TS]

00:11:19   yeah they they had prominence without [TS]

00:11:22   any money and I think it's looking at [TS]

00:11:26   myself and my father's family it is [TS]

00:11:28   because no one had any business acumen [TS]

00:11:30   but they raised their daughter to be a [TS]

00:11:35   real catch for a prince and she was an [TS]

00:11:40   opera singer and she had toured Europe [TS]

00:11:42   before the war and she was you know [TS]

00:11:45   cultured and elegant and all these [TS]

00:11:48   things and in world war one she went to [TS]

00:11:52   Europe to sing for the soldiers in the [TS]

00:11:56   trenches back when soldiers in the [TS]

00:11:59   trenches wanted to hear opera and in [TS]

00:12:03   between because the way that war was [TS]

00:12:04   fought they would then she would sing [TS]

00:12:07   for the soldiers up by the front and [TS]

00:12:08   then they would drive her back to Paris [TS]

00:12:10   and wine and dine you know for a week or [TS]

00:12:14   two and then go back up and sing for the [TS]

00:12:16   soldiers again it was not there was not [TS]

00:12:17   a tremendous amount of hardship but she [TS]

00:12:20   was being squired around by generals and [TS]

00:12:22   you know she wrote a book called a [TS]

00:12:24   nightingale in the trenches which is [TS]

00:12:26   which is a terrible book [TS]

00:12:29   but it tells these fascinating stories [TS]

00:12:33   about like oh well and here comes John [TS]

00:12:35   Pershing in the back in the back of an [TS]

00:12:38   open car and they they go off together [TS]

00:12:41   to you know to the Moulin Rouge and [TS]

00:12:46   plates etc you know it's all very [TS]

00:12:48   glamorous but then she meets my [TS]

00:12:52   grandfather David Roderick senior who is [TS]

00:12:59   the son of a Welsh immigrant coal miner [TS]

00:13:03   and who had been raised to succeed in [TS]

00:13:08   America to banish all the the ugliness [TS]

00:13:13   of being immigrants and so he had [TS]

00:13:16   memorized Shakespeare and he had [TS]

00:13:18   memorized all the you know he'd [TS]

00:13:22   memorized Whitman and he was a cultured [TS]

00:13:25   he could quote that length from the [TS]

00:13:28   Bible and he spoke with a haughty manner [TS]

00:13:31   and was a young lieutenant and he'd made [TS]

00:13:37   up a backstory for himself that he was [TS]

00:13:38   descended from scottish kings and their [TS]

00:13:42   family still thought it was Scottish [TS]

00:13:44   that's when we still thought we were [TS]

00:13:45   Scottish he knew he wasn't Scottish but [TS]

00:13:48   he was the one that started this this [TS]

00:13:50   alignable anyway they meet they meet in [TS]

00:13:54   world war one in the glamorous heady [TS]

00:13:57   days at the end of the war when the you [TS]

00:13:59   know the far-off cannon fire and yet [TS]

00:14:03   they are drinking champagne here at the [TS]

00:14:05   in the rearward area and each one of [TS]

00:14:08   them was actually they're totally full [TS]

00:14:11   of shit like Miss representing [TS]

00:14:15   themselves as a member of America's [TS]

00:14:17   aspirational class they were each one [TS]

00:14:21   teach one knowing who they are thought [TS]

00:14:22   they were getting a catch [TS]

00:14:24   that's right they were people at [TS]

00:14:26   Gatsby's party and they saw one another [TS]

00:14:32   across a crowded dance floor and i'm [TS]

00:14:34   sure you know either one of them could [TS]

00:14:36   have used their line you know what what [TS]

00:14:39   they're carefully crafted line [TS]

00:14:41   they could have used that to to meet and [TS]

00:14:43   marry someone who had money who was [TS]

00:14:48   perhaps culturally impoverished but [TS]

00:14:51   maybe the heir to the singer sewing [TS]

00:14:53   machine family fortune or maybe the [TS]

00:14:57   heiress of the you know the like my [TS]

00:15:02   grandmother's brother did marry the [TS]

00:15:06   heiress of the buster brown shoe fortune [TS]

00:15:09   but that money never made it to me in [TS]

00:15:13   any case it wasn't until they were [TS]

00:15:16   married and back in the states that they [TS]

00:15:18   finally realized that they had could [TS]

00:15:22   wing to one another with their Bologna [TS]

00:15:25   at the exact same moment but it said I'm [TS]

00:15:28   gonna need a little money this month [TS]

00:15:30   yeah they're like oh what but and here's [TS]

00:15:33   the real tragedy here is the American [TS]

00:15:35   tragedy they were in love and so it was [TS]

00:15:40   unthinkable to them that they would not [TS]

00:15:41   that they would separate for such course [TS]

00:15:44   reasons as that they were but their [TS]

00:15:47   entire mutually fraudulent yeah their [TS]

00:15:50   entire founding myth was was a was a [TS]

00:15:52   blatant lie [TS]

00:15:54   and so here we are that's ok sorry [TS]

00:15:57   ancestry they just they just shot the [TS]

00:16:00   lie down the pipeline they were like [TS]

00:16:02   let's just keep telling this lie on both [TS]

00:16:04   sides and just you know raise their kids [TS]

00:16:07   to believe that their kids were [TS]

00:16:09   descended from the Scottish Lords and [TS]

00:16:12   that there was money waiting in a trunk [TS]

00:16:14   is this day when you find yourself [TS]

00:16:18   looking up in the trees wondering could [TS]

00:16:20   there be a bag of money hanging there [TS]

00:16:22   I do I go I i go it's your birthright is [TS]

00:16:25   there a trunk in the Attic somewhere [TS]

00:16:27   that I haven't seen it's gotta be a [TS]

00:16:28   false bottom here somewhere that's right [TS]

00:16:30   i'm looking for the false bottom [TS]

00:16:32   everywhere I go I'm not knocking looking [TS]

00:16:37   for the hollow space in the what is such [TS]

00:16:39   an American story though it really is a [TS]

00:16:41   sweet story it's a very American story [TS]

00:16:43   because there is an element of fake it [TS]

00:16:44   till you make it in america i mean look [TS]

00:16:46   at how many people anglicized their [TS]

00:16:47   names when they come here [TS]

00:16:48   it really is such as a chef such a [TS]

00:16:50   chance for a fresh start and you get one [TS]

00:16:52   good suit [TS]

00:16:54   you know a haircut and I feel like if [TS]

00:16:56   either one of them had this mysterious [TS]

00:16:58   talent which is business acumen like [TS]

00:17:02   they had all the opportunity in the [TS]

00:17:04   world and they have this backstory if if [TS]

00:17:09   only a little business acumen had [TS]

00:17:12   entered the picture and they had [TS]

00:17:14   succeeded then the the success in [TS]

00:17:19   America validates the the bullshit story [TS]

00:17:24   in so many families so that all of a [TS]

00:17:27   sudden [TS]

00:17:27   well that's why everybody in America is [TS]

00:17:29   descended from robert e lee that's why [TS]

00:17:31   everybody you know like everybody in [TS]

00:17:34   America has a great you know has some [TS]

00:17:38   some part of their family story that [TS]

00:17:41   where they arrived on the Mayflower and [TS]

00:17:43   it's all baloney but it but at some [TS]

00:17:46   point somebody had success and then [TS]

00:17:48   their version of the story was accepted [TS]

00:17:50   and what's funny about my family is that [TS]

00:17:52   half of my half of my relatives have [TS]

00:17:56   actually become successful they have [TS]

00:17:58   married well and you would if you if [TS]

00:18:02   they were sitting here right now their [TS]

00:18:04   version of my grandmother and [TS]

00:18:06   grandfather story would be very [TS]

00:18:08   different from mine because they will [TS]

00:18:12   they not only do they accept the kind of [TS]

00:18:16   a geography but like its kind of crucial [TS]

00:18:21   its kind of crucial to their own [TS]

00:18:24   identity that some of those stories be [TS]

00:18:29   true [TS]

00:18:29   yeah well I think it's really i'm [TS]

00:18:34   thinking about my own family and people [TS]

00:18:36   I've known and it's you know it's like [TS]

00:18:39   everybody anything for a long time it's [TS]

00:18:42   been critical to maintain the family [TS]

00:18:45   secrets [TS]

00:18:46   I mean for some reason I can't help [TS]

00:18:48   thinking of like William Faulkner and [TS]

00:18:50   like you know and learning these [TS]

00:18:51   different sides of the story and [TS]

00:18:53   learning what really happened and you [TS]

00:18:56   know sometimes that shared familial lie [TS]

00:18:59   is can can be like a great bond em don't [TS]

00:19:03   you think [TS]

00:19:04   hell yes well I don't you know [TS]

00:19:06   I at the beginning of the grunge years I [TS]

00:19:10   remember being here in Seattle kind of [TS]

00:19:13   walking around the bars and the times in [TS]

00:19:17   the towns and listening to people tell [TS]

00:19:21   their family story in their backstory [TS]

00:19:24   and realizing that i was in a new world [TS]

00:19:26   because in the grunge ears every kid was [TS]

00:19:33   telling a story about how his family was [TS]

00:19:36   garbage like the fashion at the time was [TS]

00:19:42   to say I'm white trash [TS]

00:19:44   I'm descended from losers I I don't have [TS]

00:19:48   never had anything I've ever had to [TS]

00:19:50   raise myself and maybe my sibling since [TS]

00:19:52   I was young I've always been independent [TS]

00:19:54   that's right and it was part of that you [TS]

00:19:57   know in 1991 like in 1986 every town had [TS]

00:20:01   a a small handful of punk rockers who [TS]

00:20:03   you know who who smoked clove cigarettes [TS]

00:20:07   under the under the statue in the town [TS]

00:20:10   square and they were you know they [TS]

00:20:13   unless you lived in a fuse and a few [TS]

00:20:16   rare environments like you know [TS]

00:20:19   somewhere in southern california and [TS]

00:20:21   washington DC New York I mean there was [TS]

00:20:23   there was not if you were growing up in [TS]

00:20:25   hiawatha in the early eighties like [TS]

00:20:27   anywhere punk rocker you were you want a [TS]

00:20:30   very small little group of people but by [TS]

00:20:33   1991 1992 every single person our age [TS]

00:20:36   had some story about themselves that [TS]

00:20:41   they had been punked that whole time and [TS]

00:20:44   part of that story was that they were [TS]

00:20:47   they had been abused they'd raise [TS]

00:20:48   themselves they had they had nothing [TS]

00:20:51   nowhere to fall back [TS]

00:20:53   it was they were from you know they were [TS]

00:20:55   from this garbage strain of American [TS]

00:20:58   nobody's and all you have to do is go [TS]

00:21:01   look at their high school yearbook and [TS]

00:21:02   you realize oh no that's not true at all [TS]

00:21:05   like your pictures in the yearbook but [TS]

00:21:08   yet you like showed up for school [TS]

00:21:10   yeah that's the first sign that you're [TS]

00:21:12   not a garbage person whatever I think [TS]

00:21:15   the garbage person is but I mean [TS]

00:21:17   I heard the word white or the phrase [TS]

00:21:19   white trash so much in ninety-three [TS]

00:21:23   ninety-five like it [TS]

00:21:24   everybody was claiming to be it in [TS]

00:21:27   Seattle especially and up until that [TS]

00:21:31   point it had never occurred to me that [TS]

00:21:33   anybody would have a a backstory that [TS]

00:21:36   didn't include some at some point that [TS]

00:21:39   you had come over on the Mayflower [TS]

00:21:39   because you know because my family was [TS]

00:21:43   so invested in this in in that what was [TS]

00:21:48   effectively a dying version of american [TS]

00:21:52   middle class social aspiration my my [TS]

00:21:56   cousins were still worried about getting [TS]

00:21:58   into the Daughters of the American [TS]

00:22:00   Revolution and having enough [TS]

00:22:02   documentation to prove that they could [TS]

00:22:03   be members and all of a sudden around me [TS]

00:22:07   all my peers were like my dad's in [TS]

00:22:09   prison and I'm you know my mom was a [TS]

00:22:11   whore like wait a minute your dad worked [TS]

00:22:14   for hewlett-packard and your beer mom uh [TS]

00:22:18   you know has only had sex with two [TS]

00:22:21   people in her whole life like what are [TS]

00:22:22   you talking about it was it was just as [TS]

00:22:25   much Bologna but but but the the [TS]

00:22:28   aspiration had had flipped entirely i [TS]

00:22:32   still see that I mean you know I still [TS]

00:22:33   see that a lot in my generation you [TS]

00:22:35   don't see it in the kids but people [TS]

00:22:38   you're in my age if you if you sit down [TS]

00:22:41   and hear their family story you still [TS]

00:22:44   here a lot of you still hear them [TS]

00:22:46   struggling to took to put across this [TS]

00:22:51   this tale this like Wild West hillbilly [TS]

00:22:55   tail [TS]

00:22:56   well yeah and I mean I think part of it [TS]

00:22:59   is trying to manage expectations and [TS]

00:23:01   like set a certain bar so you know it's [TS]

00:23:04   sort of like the kid always turns paper [TS]

00:23:06   and label course it's often we do it [TS]

00:23:07   took me two minutes [TS]

00:23:08   you know like if you can create this [TS]

00:23:10   world where like you have him probably [TS]

00:23:12   succeeded against all odds and you [TS]

00:23:15   obviously are you trying to get yourself [TS]

00:23:16   the credibility of having more tenacity [TS]

00:23:18   more intestinal fortitude than the [TS]

00:23:21   people around you but also like I think [TS]

00:23:23   this happens to this day [TS]

00:23:24   I mean somewhere talking about the other [TS]

00:23:26   day too is doing this kind of like kind [TS]

00:23:29   of weird weird version of social [TS]

00:23:31   climbing the people do and could I think [TS]

00:23:34   it happens most commonly with people [TS]

00:23:35   where you try to like canoodle up to [TS]

00:23:38   somebody who's a little more famous than [TS]

00:23:39   you in order to canoodle up to the next [TS]

00:23:42   level from them and you basically get [TS]

00:23:43   the you want to get the equivalent of a [TS]

00:23:47   recommendation letter of recommendation [TS]

00:23:49   from from that person but it also it [TS]

00:23:53   also the reason it reminds you of the [TS]

00:23:54   fucker stuff is like it's also like you [TS]

00:23:56   can decide which parts of your life that [TS]

00:23:58   are really maybe even eighty percent [TS]

00:23:59   true you choose to tell people about [TS]

00:24:01   yeah like I can you know I can talk [TS]

00:24:04   about like you know punk rock shows i [TS]

00:24:05   went to bed at a certain time or i could [TS]

00:24:08   talk about being like most talented [TS]

00:24:10   senior depending on what suits me [TS]

00:24:12   that's right you were most talented [TS]

00:24:14   senior yeah I'll i technically i was [TS]

00:24:15   also class clown but you can only win [TS]

00:24:16   one most talented mustache [TS]

00:24:18   eighteen-year-olds I think you should [TS]

00:24:21   have won it took me like two years to [TS]

00:24:23   get that letter about that I think about [TS]

00:24:25   who this generation that's coming up and [TS]

00:24:27   particularly and I i'm not sure the [TS]

00:24:29   twitter world in the internet world that [TS]

00:24:31   I live in I'm not sure how [TS]

00:24:32   representative it is of the world at [TS]

00:24:34   large [TS]

00:24:35   you're not but that the mom butt we [TS]

00:24:40   joked about this at at at our Roderick [TS]

00:24:42   on the line live shell which is the the [TS]

00:24:46   idea of like if you if you were 16 years [TS]

00:24:50   old right now and you were getting us [TS]

00:24:52   the steady input of check your privilege [TS]

00:24:56   check your privilege and and the the [TS]

00:25:00   presumption being that the more [TS]

00:25:03   privileged you are the more the more [TS]

00:25:06   other people can point to you and call [TS]

00:25:08   you privileged the actual that the less [TS]

00:25:10   authority you have to speak that this [TS]

00:25:15   notion the right like you're the the [TS]

00:25:17   group that you represent in my mind has [TS]

00:25:19   had more than ample opportunity to be [TS]

00:25:21   represented in the public forum right so [TS]

00:25:23   now your turn to shut up and ended feel [TS]

00:25:26   bad about it right and so authority to [TS]

00:25:29   speak is becoming in the in the certain [TS]

00:25:33   segments of the world which I which I [TS]

00:25:35   don't [TS]

00:25:36   when I meet people in their early [TS]

00:25:37   twenties I don't see them as [TS]

00:25:40   overburdened they generally seem like a [TS]

00:25:43   pretty happy generation but then online [TS]

00:25:47   there's this there's this simultaneous [TS]

00:25:50   dialogue which is which is basically [TS]

00:25:53   like shut up shut up shut up like you [TS]

00:25:55   all have to shut up even though telling [TS]

00:25:57   people to shut up is bullying and bad [TS]

00:25:59   but the but the effect of the effect of [TS]

00:26:02   this check your privilege [TS]

00:26:04   firstworldproblems constant sort of wave [TS]

00:26:09   after wave of of attempts to censor [TS]

00:26:13   anybody that doesn't have like a perfect [TS]

00:26:16   backstory [TS]

00:26:18   where where where their story deserves [TS]

00:26:21   to be heard whatever I can't imagine [TS]

00:26:23   that it isn't creating a similar kind of [TS]

00:26:27   identity wave in people where they're [TS]

00:26:30   searching their family histories they're [TS]

00:26:33   searching their own stories for ways in [TS]

00:26:36   which they are victims of history or [TS]

00:26:42   victims of of oppression such that there [TS]

00:26:46   that their opinions matter or such that [TS]

00:26:48   they that they no longer have to [TS]

00:26:50   self-censor self apologize and that they [TS]

00:26:56   can that they can actually speak with [TS]

00:26:58   some Authority some Authority earned by [TS]

00:27:02   your forefathers or earned by the burned [TS]

00:27:05   by your victimization and I can't [TS]

00:27:08   imagine what what kind of tangled the [TS]

00:27:10   stories people are telling about [TS]

00:27:12   themselves in bars where it's not enough [TS]

00:27:16   anymore to just say like oh my people [TS]

00:27:19   were white trash like you have to say my [TS]

00:27:21   people were my people were also [TS]

00:27:27   brutalized by history and although i [TS]

00:27:32   might appear to be did I retired this [TS]

00:27:34   story i was at that this is so funny of [TS]

00:27:36   its recurring it's occurring to me now I [TS]

00:27:38   was in a bar and a guy six-foot-seven [TS]

00:27:41   guy with bright red hair [TS]

00:27:45   red eye lashes like red guy freckles [TS]

00:27:49   whose name was like Sheamus McKinnon he [TS]

00:27:56   and I are talking in this bar and I make [TS]

00:27:59   some reference to to being a Celt like [TS]

00:28:02   well you know at as a Celt I'm sure you [TS]

00:28:05   feel here you use something something [TS]

00:28:08   something something I don't remember [TS]

00:28:08   when i said to the guy and he stopped me [TS]

00:28:11   very serious and he said I I look [TS]

00:28:14   celtic but I'm native american and i [TS]

00:28:19   wasn't sure if he was kidding and I was [TS]

00:28:21   like tell me more [TS]

00:28:23   and he was like you know my grandmother [TS]

00:28:25   was a chop saw and my on my [TS]

00:28:28   grandfather's side you know she was he [TS]

00:28:32   was a a you know an Iroquois and so you [TS]

00:28:38   know I'm I mean I look I guess Irish if [TS]

00:28:44   thats it to you but but I'm to a breeder [TS]

00:28:49   like you [TS]

00:28:49   yeah but i'm a native american and i was [TS]

00:28:52   like wow okay all right i mean i don't [TS]

00:28:55   know i didn't press him for like what [TS]

00:28:57   percentage of top saw was your [TS]

00:29:00   grandmother I mean it's not important [TS]

00:29:02   because now all the sudden all of a [TS]

00:29:03   sudden you're like the East you like [TS]

00:29:04   star Z you right now it's not my job to [TS]

00:29:07   to like it too to do that but maybe just [TS]

00:29:10   maybe all you have to do is declare that [TS]

00:29:12   you know and and now you know it so [TS]

00:29:15   there's one part of this and this is [TS]

00:29:17   only like saying this but you know it [TS]

00:29:19   seems like there are so many Lauer [TS]

00:29:21   strong voices right now that are very [TS]

00:29:23   very angry and the part about it that I [TS]

00:29:26   think it's kind of a bummer is that [TS]

00:29:27   people people are being actively [TS]

00:29:32   encouraged to only find a strong voice [TS]

00:29:35   if they can do it to immediate out [TS]

00:29:37   immediately ally themselves with a group [TS]

00:29:40   of people there's not that there's not [TS]

00:29:42   that much encouragement that icy out [TS]

00:29:44   there to be a singular voice anymore [TS]

00:29:46   because singular being a singular voice [TS]

00:29:48   will get you like really smack down at [TS]

00:29:50   this point and I think you can [TS]

00:29:52   controversial eyes what almost anybody [TS]

00:29:54   says [TS]

00:29:55   it's like it was like you're straying [TS]

00:29:56   too far from the pack i wouldn't want to [TS]

00:29:58   stay politically correct that's that's [TS]

00:29:59   22 over simplified but there's there's [TS]

00:30:01   so much identity politics right now that [TS]

00:30:03   I think it's becoming almost [TS]

00:30:05   irresistible for people to ally [TS]

00:30:07   themselves even if they don't if you [TS]

00:30:09   like belong with that group you can have [TS]

00:30:10   all the sympathy in the world that you [TS]

00:30:12   want for and it's certainly I mean in an [TS]

00:30:15   ideal world we would just have sympathy [TS]

00:30:16   for each other for being human beings [TS]

00:30:17   but that doesn't really count anymore [TS]

00:30:19   now you actually have to you have to [TS]

00:30:21   show your bona fides that you are you [TS]

00:30:23   are you are for all practical purposes [TS]

00:30:25   Native American there for you now have [TS]

00:30:27   your so closely allied with this that [TS]

00:30:29   you can we can get you past the [TS]

00:30:31   privilege bar that you're allowed to [TS]

00:30:32   have some kind of an opinion at this [TS]

00:30:34   point because otherwise you're just [TS]

00:30:35   you're just another part of the problem [TS]

00:30:37   yeah well I'm gonna be part of that [TS]

00:30:39   group if I feel like it's like it when [TS]

00:30:41   anybody who strays too far from the pack [TS]

00:30:43   or whose gets too far off message is [TS]

00:30:46   really kind of shouted down as being [TS]

00:30:48   part of this this you know [TS]

00:30:50   amorphis blob of the problem the one [TS]

00:30:54   percent that whatever all this other [TS]

00:30:56   this other nurse other pneus and you can [TS]

00:30:58   just find some group that will that you [TS]

00:30:59   can kind of such sidle up to that is the [TS]

00:31:03   opposite of the other niggas then then [TS]

00:31:04   you're allowed to be all mad and you're [TS]

00:31:05   allowed to talk if you get off that [TS]

00:31:07   what's confusing is that if you get off [TS]

00:31:09   message for them the message being like [TS]

00:31:13   the you know the whatever this the [TS]

00:31:18   perfect storm we're talking about that's [TS]

00:31:21   happening in the culture now the message [TS]

00:31:23   which is very very focused on rights on [TS]

00:31:30   on the rights denied on the elderly [TS]

00:31:34   overdue writes the the rights that are I [TS]

00:31:37   mean it's at the chomsky world where the [TS]

00:31:40   where the if you get off if you get off [TS]

00:31:43   Chomsky message it doesn't matter what [TS]

00:31:46   you're saying [TS]

00:31:47   outside of that message whatever it is [TS]

00:31:51   you are on the other message right i [TS]

00:31:54   mean as soon as you get off the the [TS]

00:31:56   dialectic [TS]

00:31:58   whatever you're saying even even [TS]

00:32:01   presumably still like an innocuous [TS]

00:32:03   material you are you are you are being [TS]

00:32:08   accused of speaking on behalf of the big [TS]

00:32:11   problem you're automatically a [TS]

00:32:12   reactionary you're automatically part of [TS]

00:32:16   the the counter revolutionary movement [TS]

00:32:18   yeah i wrote I I philip seymour hoffman [TS]

00:32:21   died and and not somebody pointed out to [TS]

00:32:23   me that I had written a few years ago an [TS]

00:32:25   article about about creativity and drugs [TS]

00:32:30   and so i reposted it just saying like [TS]

00:32:34   this is a thing I wrote about rock and [TS]

00:32:37   roll about the relationship between [TS]

00:32:39   creativity and drugs and how it how [TS]

00:32:42   would have been that some of the [TS]

00:32:43   mistakes we make thinking that the two [TS]

00:32:45   are connected and I get you know I [TS]

00:32:50   people replied to me and said thank you [TS]

00:32:52   for doing that or a nice article and [TS]

00:32:54   then somebody and obviously a fan a fan [TS]

00:32:57   of me and a fan enough to go retail [TS]

00:33:00   click a link and go read an article I [TS]

00:33:02   wrote wrote me and said I really liked [TS]

00:33:04   your article except for the part where [TS]

00:33:06   you said wives and girlfriends [TS]

00:33:09   contribute to the problem because that [TS]

00:33:14   implies that women can't be musicians [TS]

00:33:16   and all of this is in a tweet right and [TS]

00:33:22   what wasn't overt in the article that I [TS]

00:33:27   wrote was that i was writing it in [TS]

00:33:30   response to the plight of a female [TS]

00:33:32   musician i know in Seattle who was [TS]

00:33:35   drinking and drugging herself to death [TS]

00:33:38   and everybody in town knew it she's a [TS]

00:33:42   famous musician she was killing herself [TS]

00:33:45   with drugs and I had I had an encounter [TS]

00:33:50   with her in a bar and watched as people [TS]

00:33:53   all around her including a lot of rock [TS]

00:33:56   stars who had seen their friends die [TS]

00:33:58   they were all facilitating this drug [TS]

00:34:04   problem because everybody's too [TS]

00:34:07   embarrassed to address it [TS]

00:34:10   and also it's not cool and also oh [TS]

00:34:15   that's just how how she is how blank ins [TS]

00:34:20   whatever and so I wrote this article [TS]

00:34:23   like no don't sit and watch your friends [TS]

00:34:26   die that's not cool her drug problem and [TS]

00:34:30   her creativity are not connected your [TS]

00:34:33   drugs and creativity are not connected [TS]

00:34:35   like can we not save this person and the [TS]

00:34:38   article was obvious enough to people in [TS]

00:34:40   Seattle that I got a few phone calls [TS]

00:34:42   from also other rock musicians who were [TS]

00:34:46   like thank you for doing that we really [TS]

00:34:48   need to do something about her she's [TS]

00:34:50   gonna die etc etc and it ended up that [TS]

00:34:52   she went to rehab and his eye and his is [TS]

00:34:55   has survived but so I get this tweet [TS]

00:35:00   from this concerned reader whose like [TS]

00:35:05   I'd I like the article except for this [TS]

00:35:10   and and obviously this is a this is a [TS]

00:35:12   fan and somebody who appreciates where [TS]

00:35:15   I'm coming from right [TS]

00:35:17   she already knows what I'm on about but [TS]

00:35:21   she felt and I have no idea how old this [TS]

00:35:23   person is she could be 20 she could be [TS]

00:35:24   50 but she felt her job as a reader was [TS]

00:35:32   to detect the two was too [TS]

00:35:38   was it her antenna were so sensitive [TS]

00:35:42   that she found this moment in the piece [TS]

00:35:46   where I said wives and girlfriends and [TS]

00:35:49   her alarm bells went off and she needed [TS]

00:35:51   to alert me to that and needed basically [TS]

00:35:56   to say I see this and you need to be [TS]

00:36:00   re-educated a third that's the word to [TS]

00:36:03   never use wives and girlfriends again [TS]

00:36:06   without also saying husbands and [TS]

00:36:07   boyfriends or without also stipulating [TS]

00:36:10   that that females can be musicians to or [TS]

00:36:12   without also you know like you didn't [TS]

00:36:14   you didn't adequately prepare [TS]

00:36:17   you did not you were not being careful [TS]

00:36:22   enough in predicting all the ways that [TS]

00:36:24   could need to be corrected for emotional [TS]

00:36:27   person and so this reader in with her [TS]

00:36:33   hyper zeroed in sensitivity failed to [TS]

00:36:37   recognize that the entire article was [TS]

00:36:39   about a female musician and that the [TS]

00:36:42   degree to which I masked that was [TS]

00:36:46   because I did not want to slam for like [TS]

00:36:50   trying to shame and out that right i [TS]

00:36:53   mean writing this article for a general [TS]

00:36:55   audience all the people that know her [TS]

00:36:58   and noemi knew it was about her and knew [TS]

00:37:01   it was a a new the article was meant for [TS]

00:37:04   a for an audience of people that were [TS]

00:37:06   supposed to recognize themselves in it [TS]

00:37:09   and stop helping this woman killed [TS]

00:37:13   herself but but the so this close reader [TS]

00:37:18   failed to read the big article and [TS]

00:37:21   failed to see that it was that you know [TS]

00:37:25   that I had worked long and hard to make [TS]

00:37:28   it to to take gender out of it in order [TS]

00:37:31   to spare this person the embarrassment [TS]

00:37:35   but also even if that weren't the case [TS]

00:37:38   wives and girlfriends do facilitate the [TS]

00:37:41   are a problem like wives and girlfriends [TS]

00:37:43   are problem and it and I don't need to [TS]

00:37:45   say husbands and boyfriends because the [TS]

00:37:51   husband's that our problem for female [TS]

00:37:53   rock musicians are wives basically you [TS]

00:37:55   know I mean random but suffice to say [TS]

00:37:58   that that this that the idea that if you [TS]

00:38:02   are not exactly on language message that [TS]

00:38:06   you are actually actively working on [TS]

00:38:09   behalf of forces of conservatism and [TS]

00:38:13   revanche ism like to be to be off msgs [TS]

00:38:17   not to be neutral it is to be it is to [TS]

00:38:20   be immediately working on behalf of evil [TS]

00:38:23   forces [TS]

00:38:25   is is a crazy is a crazy place to be [TS]

00:38:30   it is crazy to be challenged to justify [TS]

00:38:36   the political message of every message [TS]

00:38:40   will have to show that you into show in [TS]

00:38:43   a way that is frankly most of the time [TS]

00:38:46   extremely hand fisted and not very [TS]

00:38:48   elegant and certainly not very subtle to [TS]

00:38:50   prove to everybody through three to five [TS]

00:38:53   paragraphs that you have done all of [TS]

00:38:54   your math and can show it that you have [TS]

00:38:57   that you know it's I feel like there's [TS]

00:38:59   so much pressure right now in the public [TS]

00:39:00   discourse for everything to be about [TS]

00:39:02   everything [TS]

00:39:03   there's there's there's really I feel [TS]

00:39:05   like as soon as somebody starts to say [TS]

00:39:07   if I say something as simple as you know [TS]

00:39:09   what I just don't like arguing with [TS]

00:39:10   people on the internet [TS]

00:39:11   well then then if i'm not arguing with [TS]

00:39:13   somebody about what it is that they want [TS]

00:39:14   to argue about that means that i don't [TS]

00:39:17   want to agree on anything I don't you [TS]

00:39:18   want to argue about whether i agree with [TS]

00:39:20   you i just think it's unseemly and it's [TS]

00:39:22   a thing i don't like doing but by [TS]

00:39:24   choosing not to do that it makes it seem [TS]

00:39:25   like I'm a mute member of this class of [TS]

00:39:28   people who really just actively enjoy [TS]

00:39:30   seeing people put down and I will not [TS]

00:39:31   raise my voice that's not the case at [TS]

00:39:33   all right I i do think i do think that [TS]

00:39:36   people are really complicated problem [TS]

00:39:37   and to say something interesting about [TS]

00:39:39   anything you have to have the right [TS]

00:39:40   amount of introspection and specificity [TS]

00:39:45   and you have to talk about a thing at a [TS]

00:39:46   time when there's a sense what's so [TS]

00:39:48   confusing about this curl is that she or [TS]

00:39:50   her a woman whoever it was that that [TS]

00:39:52   that sent me this tweet that she [TS]

00:39:56   immediately also felt empowered at to [TS]

00:40:01   challenge me as though she were my [TS]

00:40:04   thesis advisor you know she was not she [TS]

00:40:09   wasn't coming from a place of her of [TS]

00:40:13   intellectual humility or a place of even [TS]

00:40:15   like I admire you [TS]

00:40:18   her her her tone and her her approach [TS]

00:40:21   was immediately like for lack of a [TS]

00:40:25   better term matriarchal or or like she [TS]

00:40:29   was coming to me with superior wisdom [TS]

00:40:31   right that she had read something that [TS]

00:40:34   no one else perceived or that i was [TS]

00:40:36   unaware she was revealing [TS]

00:40:38   cataract he didn't know you had yeah she [TS]

00:40:40   was here now to as you as as we agree [TS]

00:40:44   that the the operative term she was here [TS]

00:40:46   to reeducation me from a place i mean [TS]

00:40:49   and i think backed up by the by the [TS]

00:40:52   authority of the party when i whenever I [TS]

00:40:57   hear that word I because i used to use [TS]

00:40:59   that word in that same kind of context [TS]

00:41:02   it was a very common thing in the [TS]

00:41:03   liberal community to say for many many [TS]

00:41:05   years is that really this is just a [TS]

00:41:07   problem of education we the thing is [TS]

00:41:09   people would be better about not wasting [TS]

00:41:11   natural resources if they're just more [TS]

00:41:12   educated was promised in education and [TS]

00:41:15   the thing is what what people said that [TS]

00:41:17   about you [TS]

00:41:18   like what if people said the problem is [TS]

00:41:19   the thing that you need to understand [TS]

00:41:21   about everything that's wrong with your [TS]

00:41:22   political beliefs is it or you're [TS]

00:41:24   whatever you're wherever your beliefs [TS]

00:41:25   are is just a little it's just a [TS]

00:41:27   question of Education yeah you just [TS]

00:41:28   don't you just don't have the [TS]

00:41:29   information that we have real and so all [TS]

00:41:32   the times you get into an argument at a [TS]

00:41:34   sports bar with some jackass who's [TS]

00:41:36   trying to tell you that the kids [TS]

00:41:37   shouldn't kids shouldn't be immunized [TS]

00:41:38   and you know and for that matter women [TS]

00:41:41   should be in the home or whatever it is [TS]

00:41:43   chemtrails well it but really just [TS]

00:41:45   anything that you believe when you as [TS]

00:41:47   soon as you start telling people that [TS]

00:41:48   it's a matter of education I think you [TS]

00:41:50   lose a little bit of your intellectual [TS]

00:41:51   authority because at that point you're [TS]

00:41:53   what you're saying is I will sit here [TS]

00:41:55   and and patiently listen to what you [TS]

00:41:57   have to say until I get the opportunity [TS]

00:41:59   to show you how you are fundamentally [TS]

00:42:01   wrong and that you will never be able to [TS]

00:42:03   advance intellectually until you accept [TS]

00:42:06   what it is that I know is true it's just [TS]

00:42:09   a matter of education but 22 sounds like [TS]

00:42:11   fucking Pol Pot the 20 books that i have [TS]

00:42:13   read from the age of sixteen to twenty [TS]

00:42:16   eleven by the same author the sum of [TS]

00:42:20   some of which were in a my high school [TS]

00:42:22   syllabus some of them were my college [TS]

00:42:24   syllabus some of them i found through [TS]

00:42:27   friends but those you know 20 to 30 [TS]

00:42:29   books that i have really your red and [TS]

00:42:32   digested are the sum total of human [TS]

00:42:34   knowledge and the 20 or 30 books that [TS]

00:42:37   you've read some of which overlap mine [TS]

00:42:39   probably a lot of them do we both [TS]

00:42:42   probably read The Great Gatsby [TS]

00:42:46   so let's say you know the thirty percent [TS]

00:42:49   of the books of the 20 to 30 books that [TS]

00:42:51   you've read uh and and also your [TS]

00:42:54   intellectual process in digesting them [TS]

00:42:56   somehow led you so astray [TS]

00:42:59   whereas the 20 to 30 books that I've [TS]

00:43:00   read have given me this like this like [TS]

00:43:03   diamond tip insight into the whole human [TS]

00:43:06   condition [TS]

00:43:08   I I let me do one of the things that [TS]

00:43:11   there with what that person said which I [TS]

00:43:13   mean I can understand that [TS]

00:43:14   I mean if I have somebody I mean as much [TS]

00:43:16   as we kid and stuff on here when people [TS]

00:43:18   say like super like racially offensive [TS]

00:43:19   things and are obviously like just [TS]

00:43:21   dropping dropping science on you about [TS]

00:43:23   how the world is and that bugs me you [TS]

00:43:25   know i don't want to be around that [TS]

00:43:27   sure but you know first of all I'm not [TS]

00:43:29   sure what I can do to necessarily turn [TS]

00:43:31   that person around that I've never met [TS]

00:43:32   but you know what with what that woman [TS]

00:43:34   said i would be even though i would [TS]

00:43:36   never do this publicly but I would be [TS]

00:43:38   inclined to say so you decided you don't [TS]

00:43:40   want to write songs for being a band [TS]

00:43:41   because of what i said well no of course [TS]

00:43:43   not [TS]

00:43:43   okay why is that well because I'm [TS]

00:43:45   smarter than that I know okay so you [TS]

00:43:47   assume that all these other people that [TS]

00:43:49   you theoretically care about this mass [TS]

00:43:51   of people that are so stupid and [TS]

00:43:53   malleable that these words that I chosen [TS]

00:43:55   this ese are going to make them not want [TS]

00:43:57   to start a band is that is that the case [TS]

00:43:59   that you're going to make because all [TS]

00:44:00   the sudden now you're the one who's [TS]

00:44:02   smarter than all these other people [TS]

00:44:03   because you see you see through the [TS]

00:44:05   matrix right you that they live thing [TS]

00:44:07   where you've got the sunglasses right [TS]

00:44:09   and that's what i think is actually it's [TS]

00:44:11   a little it's a little bit offensive [TS]

00:44:12   because you get to pick and choose like [TS]

00:44:14   who you get to decide you're smarter [TS]

00:44:15   than and it's really just a question of [TS]

00:44:16   going in educating everybody about all [TS]

00:44:18   these little people that need to be [TS]

00:44:19   looked after in this completely [TS]

00:44:20   paternalistic way this is what's so [TS]

00:44:23   interesting about what's happening in [TS]

00:44:24   France right now with the with the guide [TS]

00:44:28   on the lady a guy doctor lady in front [TS]

00:44:31   of I think the president was having [TS]

00:44:33   intercourse with someone who wasn't his [TS]

00:44:34   wife [TS]

00:44:35   Oh see that happens a lot there no that [TS]

00:44:37   doesn't interest me at all know that so [TS]

00:44:41   the whole the whole notion of French [TS]

00:44:44   identity in sort of the the whole [TS]

00:44:48   history of France post-revolution was [TS]

00:44:52   the french said we don't see race [TS]

00:44:56   we don't know if you come to France and [TS]

00:44:59   adopt the french language and learn the [TS]

00:45:01   French culture you are a Frenchman and [TS]

00:45:05   it doesn't matter if you were born in [TS]

00:45:07   Algeria or in Vietnam we the the idea of [TS]

00:45:11   a Frenchman of a other of a citizen of [TS]

00:45:14   France is that you adopt the these these [TS]

00:45:19   the following premises that you know [TS]

00:45:24   that the the the citizen has life [TS]

00:45:28   liberty and the gala tea and that we are [TS]

00:45:32   all equal under the law and you know a [TS]

00:45:35   lot of notions in France that came from [TS]

00:45:37   the American Revolution a lot of notions [TS]

00:45:39   in France that are internal to France [TS]

00:45:40   but that there is a French identity that [TS]

00:45:46   supersedes all other cultural racial [TS]

00:45:52   economic identities and that for 200 [TS]

00:46:02   years has been the core of the of what i [TS]

00:46:06   meant to be French and and and in a way [TS]

00:46:09   it was the most democratic notion of [TS]

00:46:13   citizenship you think most people [TS]

00:46:16   believe that I think in France they [TS]

00:46:18   really do including people who are not [TS]

00:46:21   Gallic white people absolutely i mean [TS]

00:46:24   this is this is a this is the and this [TS]

00:46:26   is francis version of the melting pot [TS]

00:46:29   you know America's version of the [TS]

00:46:30   melting pot is show up now you're an [TS]

00:46:33   American and you and anybody can become [TS]

00:46:36   a million work hard and play by the [TS]

00:46:37   rules [TS]

00:46:38   that's right and all over and [TS]

00:46:39   everybody's vote and it's fair here and [TS]

00:46:42   so you can be anybody could be President [TS]

00:46:45   you know that's the american version the [TS]

00:46:48   French version is is maybe [TS]

00:46:51   understandably more identity-based like [TS]

00:46:54   it isn't just that you that anybody can [TS]

00:46:58   be President it is that we are all now [TS]

00:47:03   equal under the idea that we are that we [TS]

00:47:06   are Frenchmen like we are brothers and [TS]

00:47:09   sisters brothers and sisters right and [TS]

00:47:13   political politically brothers and [TS]

00:47:15   sisters you know I it's a very it's it's [TS]

00:47:19   a super seductive idea to them and it's [TS]

00:47:22   the core of the whole idea i mean when [TS]

00:47:24   we we only look at it from outside and a [TS]

00:47:28   lot of it seems a lot of it is kind of [TS]

00:47:31   the the French pomposity and the that [TS]

00:47:34   the arrogance like the this is the this [TS]

00:47:39   is the sunny side of that you know that [TS]

00:47:41   this is the this is what's beautiful [TS]

00:47:44   about being French but as in the last 20 [TS]

00:47:48   years there have been these massive [TS]

00:47:50   waves of immigration to France and the [TS]

00:47:54   French have been wrestling with how to [TS]

00:47:57   maintain this thing that is so key to [TS]

00:48:01   them and it's like it is it's like a [TS]

00:48:03   religion to them which you would you [TS]

00:48:06   also include the things like language [TS]

00:48:08   and trying to lock down on things like [TS]

00:48:10   love facts i mean the effect of running [TS]

00:48:12   the French language to stay intact as [TS]

00:48:13   part of that for sure [TS]

00:48:15   languages key is is the is the heart of [TS]

00:48:18   it it's the key to and so their approach [TS]

00:48:21   to immigration has always been welcome [TS]

00:48:24   thank you for coming to France here is [TS]

00:48:27   your book of becoming French it involves [TS]

00:48:33   you now speaking French and thinking [TS]

00:48:35   French and at home I suppose if you want [TS]

00:48:40   to keep eating couscous here that is [TS]

00:48:41   fine here are here is a recipe book of [TS]

00:48:44   how to make your couscous taste more [TS]

00:48:46   french but in the meantime we are happy [TS]

00:48:52   to have you here and we are going to do [TS]

00:48:54   everything we can to create a a a racist [TS]

00:48:58   society [TS]

00:48:59   assuming of course that you're not a [TS]

00:49:01   gypsy or a Jew but let's leave that [TS]

00:49:03   aside but actually we welcome the Jews [TS]

00:49:06   now still a little weird on the gypsies [TS]

00:49:08   but [TS]

00:49:12   as as successive waves of people have [TS]

00:49:14   emigrated from North Africa now all of a [TS]

00:49:17   sudden they're these gigantic ghettos [TS]

00:49:19   where the population is largely arab and [TS]

00:49:26   muslim and so the French have been going [TS]

00:49:30   through this whole uh this this [TS]

00:49:33   incredible identity like the national [TS]

00:49:36   cultural identity problem where they're [TS]

00:49:38   like well we can't have people walking [TS]

00:49:39   around in burkas because it's not French [TS]

00:49:42   it isn't a question of that we are a [TS]

00:49:46   racist against Muslims or anti-muslim [TS]

00:49:50   but but the goal in France is that we [TS]

00:49:52   all be French it is how we manage [TS]

00:49:57   equality it is our whole idea of [TS]

00:49:59   equality that we all be not the same but [TS]

00:50:04   that we share the same values that but [TS]

00:50:07   that we all be primarily French right [TS]

00:50:09   now [TS]

00:50:09   well that we share these cause these [TS]

00:50:12   core values which are you know this is [TS]

00:50:18   kind of it that there's a similar [TS]

00:50:20   argument happening in America except we [TS]

00:50:22   don't share core values here but there [TS]

00:50:26   they have these core democratic [TS]

00:50:28   post-revolution values they they think [TS]

00:50:32   they do or they it's their values are [TS]

00:50:35   are are closer to the heart of the idea [TS]

00:50:40   of themselves this shared sense of [TS]

00:50:43   values and it's you know it is a at well [TS]

00:50:48   so it has driven them now to pass a law [TS]

00:50:50   against wearing burkas and from an [TS]

00:50:53   American sensibility we're you know that [TS]

00:50:57   law that that you can't wear a burka in [TS]

00:50:59   France and in a public school or in a in [TS]

00:51:02   an office like a government office we [TS]

00:51:08   just Americans freak out at the notion [TS]

00:51:13   and it seems very paternalistic and it [TS]

00:51:15   seems very racist [TS]

00:51:18   it seems i want a paternalistic it's [TS]

00:51:21   totalitarian right to tell taryn but [TS]

00:51:24   from the French standpoint it is like [TS]

00:51:30   they are trying to us it its full from [TS]

00:51:33   the French idea it is a very liberal [TS]

00:51:35   idea this is what's confusing the [TS]

00:51:38   liberal notion of like French liberalism [TS]

00:51:41   requires that everybody aspire to be [TS]

00:51:45   part of this family and to be outside of [TS]

00:51:50   it seems to them to be a active [TS]

00:51:56   totalitarianism or to be an act of [TS]

00:51:58   hostility that threatens the whole that [TS]

00:52:05   threatens the safety of their of them of [TS]

00:52:11   their melting pot right if you don't if [TS]

00:52:13   you don't want to melt into being French [TS]

00:52:16   like being French is at is at the key of [TS]

00:52:21   having all the rights of man that that [TS]

00:52:25   that that you can bend therefore not [TS]

00:52:27   expect like you can't expect the rights [TS]

00:52:30   if you don't also perform the duties and [TS]

00:52:36   so they're so their culture is at war [TS]

00:52:41   with itself right now it's tearing [TS]

00:52:42   itself apart and it is it it's it is a [TS]

00:52:46   it's very interesting to look at it from [TS]

00:52:49   here to look at it from the United [TS]

00:52:51   States and see that that that there i [TS]

00:52:56   mean obviously like the lepen people the [TS]

00:53:00   be a cultural xenophobes in France are [TS]

00:53:03   are on this issue too but there's a [TS]

00:53:07   whole stripe of people that you know [TS]

00:53:10   that are coming at this question from a [TS]

00:53:13   liberal democratic perspective there [TS]

00:53:16   that is that's that's very confusing to [TS]

00:53:20   watch from here and very I think [TS]

00:53:22   instructive informative [TS]

00:53:25   yeah I mean I all the lofty ideas are [TS]

00:53:30   it's easy enough to agree on something [TS]

00:53:32   like do you believe in freedom of speech [TS]

00:53:34   of course everybody agrees and freedom [TS]

00:53:35   of speech and so you get into the [TS]

00:53:36   specifics of what that really means [TS]

00:53:39   are you allowed to say things that [TS]

00:53:40   aren't true are you allowed to say [TS]

00:53:42   things that are unkind are you allowed [TS]

00:53:43   to say things that startup hate when [TS]

00:53:45   people are you you know do I you know [TS]

00:53:48   the shot fire in a crowded theater [TS]

00:53:49   yea yea or you know or I think some [TS]

00:53:52   people would say this could go on really [TS]

00:53:54   any end of the spectrum versus the other [TS]

00:53:56   should I be expected to pay to publish [TS]

00:53:59   speech that I definitely think is is [TS]

00:54:01   hateful or untrue [TS]

00:54:03   for example do i right you should we be [TS]

00:54:06   paying should we be paying to have [TS]

00:54:07   textbooks in our schools that say [TS]

00:54:11   evolution is true [TS]

00:54:12   should we be paying to have textbooks in [TS]

00:54:14   our school that say that evolution is [TS]

00:54:16   wrong [TS]

00:54:17   I mean you know that's right that is i'm [TS]

00:54:19   probably splitting hairs here but I [TS]

00:54:20   think anybody agrees on those big issues [TS]

00:54:23   its just its implementation details but [TS]

00:54:25   there where you get all the truth [TS]

00:54:27   well this is why the Supreme Court of [TS]

00:54:29   the United States and the Congress and [TS]

00:54:32   the presidency were such a what were [TS]

00:54:35   such a brilliant idea and you know the [TS]

00:54:37   idea that the Supreme Court could take a [TS]

00:54:41   law and set limits on aspects of it you [TS]

00:54:48   know that that that that that boat the [TS]

00:54:50   Congress made law it went past the [TS]

00:54:52   President and he got to you know he got [TS]

00:54:55   to take a swipe at it if he could but [TS]

00:54:59   then the citizens to challenge the law [TS]

00:55:02   and the court could make a well could [TS]

00:55:08   the court could rule on beat you on [TS]

00:55:12   behalf of us like the idea that there [TS]

00:55:16   was an us survived until not very long [TS]

00:55:22   ago and it's it's a it's a thing as a [TS]

00:55:26   historical us [TS]

00:55:28   well yeah and that that where I mean [TS]

00:55:30   like when it is not kind of what the [TS]

00:55:31   Supreme Court is it speaking of us but [TS]

00:55:33   its its kind of to say like is this is [TS]

00:55:35   this what was intended [TS]

00:55:37   oh no I mean well you know it that is a [TS]

00:55:39   modern problem that the Supreme Court [TS]

00:55:42   was always meant to be in it was always [TS]

00:55:45   meant to evolve and the idea that the [TS]

00:55:48   founders didn't intend that the court [TS]

00:55:50   would interpret the conversation in [TS]

00:55:52   modern terms is a crazy conservative [TS]

00:55:55   reactionary nut story that the same kind [TS]

00:56:00   of people think the Bible was written in [TS]

00:56:02   English yeah right i mean has always had [TS]

00:56:04   the same 66 books it if you've read [TS]

00:56:07   anything about the founders the Scalia [TS]

00:56:09   notion that they meant that this you [TS]

00:56:12   know that that that that that the [TS]

00:56:15   founders meant that we should try and [TS]

00:56:17   get inside their minds and think about [TS]

00:56:19   what they meant instead of that they [TS]

00:56:21   meant exactly you know that they met [TS]

00:56:23   what they wrote and that we should be [TS]

00:56:25   like interpreting that but based on the [TS]

00:56:28   fact that we now have handheld computers [TS]

00:56:31   in our eyeglasses or III health [TS]

00:56:33   computers are hey al computer it's um [TS]

00:56:36   like it it seems crazy to me but no I i [TS]

00:56:39   mean the the evolve and ever-evolving [TS]

00:56:42   notion that there was an American soul [TS]

00:56:46   of a kind or that there was an American [TS]

00:56:48   identity that we were all aspiring to [TS]

00:56:54   melt into was a notion that was still in [TS]

00:56:58   place in a largely in place at least in [TS]

00:57:02   the school's when you and I were kids [TS]

00:57:05   and it was it was fraying and there were [TS]

00:57:07   obviously there was a there were whole [TS]

00:57:09   segments of the population that said [TS]

00:57:12   we're not even included in that you [TS]

00:57:14   never included us in that and we want we [TS]

00:57:18   want entry into it at the time even then [TS]

00:57:23   that it was only the fringe voices that [TS]

00:57:26   said we don't want entry into it we want [TS]

00:57:29   to burn it down [TS]

00:57:30   we want to tear that identity of park [TS]

00:57:33   like the vast majority of the [TS]

00:57:35   disenfranchised only wanted to be [TS]

00:57:37   franchised [TS]

00:57:39   and it's only in the last time you have [TS]

00:57:42   said the same have the same rights that [TS]

00:57:43   anybody else already had to have to have [TS]

00:57:45   the same rights and to be included in [TS]

00:57:47   that notion of American and to be and to [TS]

00:57:50   have their voices considered and to be [TS]

00:57:53   to just expand the franchise to include [TS]

00:57:57   everybody that really was already in it [TS]

00:57:59   which is something that the French did [TS]

00:58:01   much better than the Americans did it in [TS]

00:58:05   the sense that they headaches that they [TS]

00:58:07   that that franchise was expanded I mean [TS]

00:58:10   and obviously like the Dreyfus Affair [TS]

00:58:11   whenever the that they up through the [TS]

00:58:15   war they were still pretty bad on Jews [TS]

00:58:18   and and and Roma but the the French of [TS]

00:58:26   it have sought to expand that franchise [TS]

00:58:28   a lot more liberally than the Americans [TS]

00:58:30   did but it's only in the last 20 years [TS]

00:58:33   that that the idea that that this [TS]

00:58:39   american-ness even that that that are [TS]

00:58:42   shared aspirations that a commonality [TS]

00:58:45   would be something that we would [TS]

00:58:48   disparage and something that an educated [TS]

00:58:52   liberal person would want no part of and [TS]

00:58:56   would would want would instead choose to [TS]

00:58:59   mock and dried you know that that to sit [TS]

00:59:03   and talk about a like a an American [TS]

00:59:11   identity to talk about that as something [TS]

00:59:16   that is inherently oppressive [TS]

00:59:19   intrinsically oppressive rather than [TS]

00:59:23   something that is of a framework that we [TS]

00:59:26   can make that and we should be trying to [TS]

00:59:29   make better always and that making it [TS]

00:59:32   more inclusive is our goal rather than [TS]

00:59:37   to you know to destroy them to destroy [TS]

00:59:42   the framework in favor of who you are [TS]

00:59:47   implying who are you saying once that or [TS]

00:59:50   has been doing that [TS]

00:59:51   I don't like the far right wing nut [TS]

00:59:53   types [TS]

00:59:54   well like going to the compound kind of [TS]

00:59:56   people I feel like that I feel like [TS]

00:59:58   there is a huge go to the cops [TS]

00:59:58   there is a huge go to the cops [TS]

01:00:00   pound thread in liberalism now although [TS]

01:00:04   it isn't to the compound it is to a [TS]

01:00:07   place of like a place of hyper [TS]

01:00:12   multiculturalism to the point that all [TS]

01:00:15   that it is that it's like george bush's [TS]

01:00:18   thousand points of light except that [TS]

01:00:20   thousand points of light is a thousand [TS]

01:00:22   equal viewpoints none of which can be [TS]

01:00:24   privileged over any other so that it is [TS]

01:00:28   a so that every voice is heard in equal [TS]

01:00:32   volume and in that constellation of [TS]

01:00:37   voices there will be some collected [TS]

01:00:40   wisdom there will be some there were [TS]

01:00:43   there will be a common knowledge or [TS]

01:00:45   understanding that we can we cannot know [TS]

01:00:48   yet we cannot know the result of this [TS]

01:00:51   experiment until it we have achieved it [TS]

01:00:54   and to guess at it is to second-guess it [TS]

01:00:59   which is which is to stand in the way of [TS]

01:01:02   it and that are that the only valid goal [TS]

01:01:05   can be a time when all voices are [TS]

01:01:09   represented with with no privilege and [TS]

01:01:14   this is the idea of this of the word [TS]

01:01:15   privilege can and and and and flinging [TS]

01:01:18   privilege at people as an epithet that [TS]

01:01:22   this is this is the liberal side of this [TS]

01:01:24   yeah that only when we arrive at a place [TS]

01:01:26   where no voice has pride of privileged [TS]

01:01:30   no voices heard more loudly than any [TS]

01:01:32   other can we fully know ourselves or [TS]

01:01:37   have a tour or be close to achieving [TS]

01:01:42   like a understanding human understanding [TS]

01:01:46   or collective wisdom and it's a it's the [TS]

01:01:50   what I think is the under girding idea [TS]

01:01:54   of this you know this this like [TS]

01:02:00   Quasimodo axis to move on up on the part [TS]

01:02:04   of the intellectual world in American [TS]

01:02:08   Left intellectual life [TS]

01:02:11   to always be attacking privilege to [TS]

01:02:13   always be second-guessing language to [TS]

01:02:16   always be equalizing voices the the only [TS]

01:02:24   premise and it's an unspoken premise no [TS]

01:02:26   one ever discusses it openly but the [TS]

01:02:28   only premise I can see at the heart of [TS]

01:02:31   it is the idea that only once all voices [TS]

01:02:34   are heard only was all voices are equal [TS]

01:02:37   can we know can we even know what our [TS]

01:02:40   project is & big because as you as you [TS]

01:02:45   as you see any time someone stands up [TS]

01:02:48   and says i have an opinion the first [TS]

01:02:53   question is what right do you have to [TS]

01:02:55   speak who are you are you are going on [TS]

01:02:57   his on his billiard behalf key to speak [TS]

01:02:59   right are you just another middle-class [TS]

01:03:03   white person because we've heard what [TS]

01:03:07   you have to say and it you know it is a [TS]

01:03:12   blanket dismissal of antenna and the [TS]

01:03:15   reality is what any one person has to [TS]

01:03:17   say is in a lot of ways [TS]

01:03:19   irrespective of what their races or [TS]

01:03:21   their classes right i mean the world of [TS]

01:03:25   ideas the whole premise of it is that it [TS]

01:03:28   can exist in one's mind that yes is [TS]

01:03:32   influenced by its by its culture yes is [TS]

01:03:35   influenced by its experience but also [TS]

01:03:37   that's the beautiful thing about an idea [TS]

01:03:40   you can have an idea that is in conflict [TS]

01:03:42   with how you were raised with how you [TS]

01:03:45   were how you other the culture in which [TS]

01:03:48   you live it's how ideas [TS]

01:03:51   advertise themselves like I can think of [TS]

01:03:56   opposite of me and that's what makes it [TS]

01:04:01   a thought right and to to argue that my [TS]

01:04:05   thoughts are are all water stamped with [TS]

01:04:10   my race and culture is to be [TS]

01:04:15   anti-intellectual I guess [TS]

01:04:18   at its core and what thats whats in [TS]

01:04:20   that's what's insane about about this [TS]

01:04:23   notion is that ultimately it is it is [TS]

01:04:28   anti thinking and it you know it becomes [TS]

01:04:33   like it it's seeking to kill this idea [TS]

01:04:38   that you can be that there's something [TS]

01:04:41   about being French or about being [TS]

01:04:43   American that is that's worth preserving [TS]

01:04:47   or that is an identity that that has [TS]

01:04:51   responsibilities as well as rights [TS]

01:04:54   attended to it that every right has a [TS]

01:04:57   has a concomitant responsibility that [TS]

01:05:01   goes along with it [TS]

01:05:02   hmm i don't know i'm john pretty I'm [TS]

01:05:08   pretty skeptical about first of all I I [TS]

01:05:11   I feel like if you look at any anytime [TS]

01:05:15   that people who are in a minority and RB [TS]

01:05:17   being treated poorly end up getting out [TS]

01:05:20   of that there has to be a period along [TS]

01:05:22   what did stalin calling you know there's [TS]

01:05:25   that period where you at the the shit [TS]

01:05:28   was called the dictatorship of the [TS]

01:05:30   proletariat what they called it there's [TS]

01:05:33   a period like okay we have the [TS]

01:05:34   dictatorship of the proletariat there's [TS]

01:05:35   going to be this period i gotta let you [TS]

01:05:37   guys know things are going to be a [TS]

01:05:39   little bit rough here in the Soviet [TS]

01:05:41   Union while we make sure that we get [TS]

01:05:43   good and Soviet Union [TS]

01:05:45   yeah let's say 30 million dead but ok no [TS]

01:05:49   no i'm not i'm not trying to draw that [TS]

01:05:51   line exactly what I'm saying that I [TS]

01:05:52   think if you look at any group you have [TS]

01:05:53   to be radicalized at some point in order [TS]

01:05:55   to get noticed and in order to be heard [TS]

01:05:58   in order to attract people to [TS]

01:06:00   understanding hangs this is kind of this [TS]

01:06:02   is real screwed-up people are people [TS]

01:06:04   getting lynched like innocent innocent [TS]

01:06:06   people are being lynched for no reason [TS]

01:06:09   and like that's it that we have to stop [TS]

01:06:11   this guy's this is that this is a [TS]

01:06:13   terrible thing and so there's a period [TS]

01:06:14   where you have to set yourself apart and [TS]

01:06:16   and be heard and but I don't know and [TS]

01:06:19   this is maybe this is the privilege [TS]

01:06:20   talking but I feel like there are there [TS]

01:06:21   are so many people who cannot wait to [TS]

01:06:25   lose their own identity inside of some [TS]

01:06:28   bigger group because that's where they [TS]

01:06:29   feel like they did the identity that [TS]

01:06:31   they seek [TS]

01:06:31   fine ironically enough is by being in [TS]

01:06:35   the group that's shouting everybody else [TS]

01:06:36   down and you know is 011 him while I [TS]

01:06:40   understand I understand I understand and [TS]

01:06:41   respect the need to be heard and have [TS]

01:06:44   your needs redressed however you decide [TS]

01:06:46   to do it [TS]

01:06:47   I've always I'm always a little bit [TS]

01:06:49   skeptical of people who seem to be [TS]

01:06:51   getting addicted to being the underdog [TS]

01:06:53   because i'm not sure that is an [TS]

01:06:56   empowering approach to life [TS]

01:06:57   well my people were super white trash so [TS]

01:07:00   I don't know what you're talking about [TS]

01:07:02   oh you have people to my super white [TS]

01:07:05   trash people just like basically had to [TS]

01:07:08   do it all themselves well look both my [TS]

01:07:09   parents were addicted to super fun and I [TS]

01:07:12   had to raise myself inside of my own [TS]

01:07:14   diaper super fun you know about you guys [TS]

01:07:17   probably had cocaine we can do for [TS]

01:07:19   cooking we had super fun super fun [TS]

01:07:21   yeah yeah there's a pencil shavings and [TS]

01:07:23   coop you snorted it or I shot it didn't [TS]

01:07:26   matter didn't do anything to ruin their [TS]

01:07:27   lives [TS]

01:07:28   you know there are 300 million Americans [TS]

01:07:30   and that is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of [TS]

01:07:36   the people in the world really a small [TS]

01:07:40   number of people like two percent so my [TS]

01:07:43   point now [TS]

01:07:44   no I can't be right I'm not doing math [TS]

01:07:46   well there's a six billion people right [TS]

01:07:49   yeah I think closer to seven and in all [TS]

01:07:56   of in a it and I and I really think that [TS]

01:07:59   that at least right now that we America [TS]

01:08:03   has stopped manufacturing cars really [TS]

01:08:06   except for chrysler i don't know i think [TS]

01:08:09   about the possibilities let's extract [TS]

01:08:11   some for Christ's yeah I heard her I [TS]

01:08:13   heard the measure radiant and I thought [TS]

01:08:16   I was having a stroke they put their [TS]

01:08:17   potential is there something more [TS]

01:08:18   American than America but i don't think [TS]

01:08:20   so i don't think so how the turnout was [TS]

01:08:22   a dignified ah he looked a little [TS]

01:08:25   plastic surgery but his face was and he [TS]

01:08:29   can space was super init bobtailing and [TS]

01:08:32   his face we're talking about chrysler in [TS]

01:08:34   a commercial [TS]

01:08:34   yeah he looked like his face looked like [TS]

01:08:37   a change purse that simple [TS]

01:08:39   why don't you remember when he wouldn't [TS]

01:08:43   even let people use his songs first up [TS]

01:08:45   yeah that those days are gone but but I [TS]

01:08:48   mean even with that [TS]

01:08:49   yeah like calendar let's make your car [TS]

01:08:52   because will is anything more American [TS]

01:08:54   than America even that is really what [TS]

01:08:57   we're exporting his ideas and the Act [TS]

01:09:01   the ideas and the the the bullshit that [TS]

01:09:05   we are coming up with in terms of energy [TS]

01:09:08   entertainment infotainment and this [TS]

01:09:12   amusement and the info musn't and this [TS]

01:09:15   huge fire hose of ideas that we are just [TS]

01:09:18   spraying into the air like being the [TS]

01:09:21   entirety of it is a product of the [TS]

01:09:26   privilege that we have scraped and [TS]

01:09:29   stolen from the rest of the world like [TS]

01:09:31   we have created hey a salon in this [TS]

01:09:36   country out of some some shit we found [TS]

01:09:41   on the ground when we got here that we [TS]

01:09:43   that we that we killed the people that [TS]

01:09:46   were here already and took and then all [TS]

01:09:49   the raping that we do the daily daily [TS]

01:09:52   cultural raping that we do we have [TS]

01:09:55   created a salon where we are producing [TS]

01:09:57   chrysler ads angry birds and a like [TS]

01:10:06   Sheila booth movies when you put it that [TS]

01:10:11   way and I'm so like criticism from [TS]

01:10:19   within here seems so like so much a [TS]

01:10:25   product I mean it's all still in the [TS]

01:10:29   ship down like all all of the cultural [TS]

01:10:34   criticism all of the angry Twitter [TS]

01:10:35   yelling it's all in the same fountain of [TS]

01:10:39   of like language culture we are [TS]

01:10:43   we are deriving me where we are we are [TS]

01:10:46   producing on behalf of the world right [TS]

01:10:49   now in this moment in time and a hundred [TS]

01:10:54   fifty years from now we may be speaking [TS]

01:10:56   Indonesian here and that all may be gone [TS]

01:10:59   up and right now it seems like we [TS]

01:11:02   ourselves to be digesting it as [TS]

01:11:06   open-mindedly as possible the stuff that [TS]

01:11:10   we're making the ideas that we're having [TS]

01:11:12   it seems like an incredible missed [TS]

01:11:15   opportunity to not be adopting and [TS]

01:11:18   espousing the most open-minded possible [TS]

01:11:22   way of thinking as a group of people and [TS]

01:11:24   as a culture because we are you know [TS]

01:11:28   where we're in a rare moment we're all [TS]

01:11:32   we're being asked to do is generate [TS]

01:11:33   ideas all we are responsible for is [TS]

01:11:38   making words and ideas and games and [TS]

01:11:43   plays and to be to be turning on [TS]

01:11:49   ourselves and you know hyper nitpicking [TS]

01:11:53   looking for a grammar of of equality [TS]

01:12:00   when every idea could be in play every [TS]

01:12:06   single notion is up in the air its it is [TS]

01:12:10   a it's a strange impulse and one that I [TS]

01:12:14   don't know it's very human but and and [TS]

01:12:18   when you have them we spend your day [TS]

01:12:20   looking for that grammar of equality [TS]

01:12:21   something else is gonna happen when you [TS]

01:12:22   talked about before which is the bad [TS]

01:12:24   words problem and so we all we all agree [TS]

01:12:27   or are compelled to agree that there are [TS]

01:12:29   is this increasing corpus of bad words [TS]

01:12:31   these things we must never use or we [TS]

01:12:33   must always use Oh bad ideas are are the [TS]

01:12:36   are the real scary thing right but the [TS]

01:12:38   bad ideas and the problems I'm trying to [TS]

01:12:40   get at though is you can continue to to [TS]

01:12:43   your southern sheriff speak around your [TS]

01:12:45   buddies and that's not gonna do a damn [TS]

01:12:47   thing except you make you feel more and [TS]

01:12:49   more like you're the one who's [TS]

01:12:50   marginalized now it's for everybody [TS]

01:12:52   are all of our friends over here on the [TS]

01:12:54   left side of the dial there are just as [TS]

01:12:56   many people on the other side who are [TS]

01:12:58   just as incredulous about how they've [TS]

01:13:00   been left behind [TS]

01:13:01   yeah and and that just we just keep we [TS]

01:13:03   just keep making that split like broader [TS]

01:13:05   and broader when we keep saying which [TS]

01:13:08   ideas are ok to think the idea that's [TS]

01:13:11   curious to me right now is that football [TS]

01:13:14   is this terrible crime that we are [TS]

01:13:19   inflicting on football players right [TS]

01:13:22   that football is violent which is like a [TS]

01:13:25   new idea i guess to some people that had [TS]

01:13:29   permanently like well yeah and that [TS]

01:13:31   these and that these football players [TS]

01:13:32   are being for our amusement [TS]

01:13:38   this is the beginning of every one of [TS]

01:13:39   these sort of screens for our for the [TS]

01:13:42   amusement of some rich corporations [TS]

01:13:44   these football players are being paid [TS]

01:13:48   millions of dollars to hit each other [TS]

01:13:50   really hard and then 20 years later they [TS]

01:13:52   have parkinson's disease and this is a [TS]

01:13:54   thing that should be outlawed and it the [TS]

01:13:59   the premise of that argument that this [TS]

01:14:03   is what this is what confuses me it is [TS]

01:14:06   like threaded throughout these arguments [TS]

01:14:12   is a kind of weird it's the same [TS]

01:14:14   argument that the catholic church uses [TS]

01:14:17   to fight abortion and the death penalty [TS]

01:14:21   it is the idea that human life is [TS]

01:14:24   somehow sacred above and beyond any [TS]

01:14:28   individual human life and what that [TS]

01:14:30   human life actually is or represents but [TS]

01:14:34   that the I that the that human life [TS]

01:14:37   capital H capital L is somehow sacred [TS]

01:14:41   and more important more valuable than it [TS]

01:14:46   might appear to be in any one instance [TS]

01:14:48   and so the fact that these football [TS]

01:14:52   players are hurting themselves and that [TS]

01:14:55   they do it knowingly [TS]

01:14:57   and that they do it for great reward and [TS]

01:15:01   that they are heroes and champions but [TS]

01:15:05   then later on the they suffer and maybe [TS]

01:15:08   when maybe when somebody said to them [TS]

01:15:10   when they were sixteen or twenty like [TS]

01:15:12   you know someday you're going to suffer [TS]

01:15:14   maybe they didn't know exactly what that [TS]

01:15:16   meant and they agreed to something that [TS]

01:15:18   they couldn't I couldn't possibly have [TS]

01:15:20   understood all the way implying that the [TS]

01:15:23   people who gave him that money new to a [TS]

01:15:25   pretty good certainty that they were [TS]

01:15:26   going to get right the head injuries are [TS]

01:15:28   some of the people that give him that [TS]

01:15:29   money were like actually relishing that [TS]

01:15:31   one day they were going to have [TS]

01:15:33   parkinson's disease but that you know [TS]

01:15:37   and I think about this in terms of [TS]

01:15:38   Muhammad Ali one of the great champions [TS]

01:15:40   of Human of the 20th century and human [TS]

01:15:43   life and human Muhammad Ali is suffering [TS]

01:15:45   from from a tremor from Parkinson's and [TS]

01:15:48   a tremor that that we that that kind of [TS]

01:15:51   shames us and that we wouldn't have [TS]

01:15:52   wished on him he is our hero but would [TS]

01:15:56   anyone have had Muhammad Ali not fight [TS]

01:16:01   would anyone have asked Muhammad Ali to [TS]

01:16:04   have fought one fight fewer like [TS]

01:16:09   Muhammad Ali fought he was a hero to the [TS]

01:16:11   world he's the most recognized name on [TS]

01:16:14   the planet and and in his later years he [TS]

01:16:18   suffers the battle damage and the the [TS]

01:16:25   idea that we would put a stop that the [TS]

01:16:27   other that we would do anything other [TS]

01:16:28   than celebrate every aspect of it you [TS]

01:16:31   know because the fact is we don't know [TS]

01:16:33   if Muhammad Ali had never boxed whether [TS]

01:16:36   or not he would have gotten Parkinson's [TS]

01:16:37   anyway because we don't understand [TS]

01:16:40   Parkinson's hoo keek you know my my [TS]

01:16:43   grand aunt died of Parkinson's and she [TS]

01:16:45   was never in a boxing match [TS]

01:16:48   so wait now is you're saying so I'm part [TS]

01:16:50   of that is that we've got information [TS]

01:16:51   that we didn't have 4050 years ago I [TS]

01:16:55   sorts of things [TS]

01:16:56   yes you complete using you're saying it [TS]

01:16:58   retroactive continuity let's go back and [TS]

01:17:00   sort of let that's all collectively [TS]

01:17:02   disparage what boxing has done over the [TS]

01:17:05   years in order to make sure it never [TS]

01:17:06   happens again [TS]

01:17:07   are you saying it so [TS]

01:17:09   I'm but yeah you don't think that we [TS]

01:17:11   should take the information we know [TS]

01:17:12   about things like traumatic brain injury [TS]

01:17:14   and try to prevent it [TS]

01:17:15   well I don't have heavier guys hitting [TS]

01:17:19   harder you know I would see what seems [TS]

01:17:22   to me is that I me know when i'm in [TS]

01:17:25   brooklyn now and every kid under the age [TS]

01:17:29   of 14 is wearing a bicycle helmet to go [TS]

01:17:32   to the store and not even on a bicycle [TS]

01:17:35   the parents are just putting their [TS]

01:17:37   putting helmets on him just to go out [TS]

01:17:38   the door because of what we think we [TS]

01:17:41   know about traumatic brain injury and [TS]

01:17:43   how dangerous the world is like [TS]

01:17:46   ultimately the world is dangerous human [TS]

01:17:50   life is nasty brutish and short we not [TS]

01:17:53   one of us dies the way we would want [TS]

01:17:56   there is no way for us to live forever [TS]

01:18:01   there is no way for us to escape disease [TS]

01:18:04   there is no way for us to escape injury [TS]

01:18:08   and yet in these certain pockets of of [TS]

01:18:15   what it is to be human [TS]

01:18:17   we suddenly described all this injustice [TS]

01:18:20   to certain kinds of injuries to certain [TS]

01:18:24   kinds of disease to certain kinds of [TS]

01:18:27   misfortune and by ascribing injustice to [TS]

01:18:32   it it doesn't mean that those things [TS]

01:18:35   actually are in just it's just that [TS]

01:18:38   we've described injustice to them and [TS]

01:18:40   and so the traumatic brain injury that a [TS]

01:18:44   football player receives is now a source [TS]

01:18:47   of all this this conversation to the [TS]

01:18:51   effect that maybe we should ban [TS]

01:18:53   football-playing but the traumatic brain [TS]

01:18:55   injury of all the US soldiers that are [TS]

01:18:57   just receiving brain injury as a result [TS]

01:19:00   of bombs going off around them all the [TS]

01:19:02   time [TS]

01:19:03   that's a conversation that we're tabling [TS]

01:19:05   for now and the fact that people get [TS]

01:19:09   traumatic brain injury all the time just [TS]

01:19:11   driving in their cars or playing on the [TS]

01:19:13   playground [TS]

01:19:15   is a thing that we cannot describe an [TS]

01:19:17   injustice to so we just accept as part [TS]

01:19:21   of life and the reality is we all die so [TS]

01:19:27   soon and that human life actually is not [TS]

01:19:32   that precious you know and that every [TS]

01:19:36   death is a tragedy to the people [TS]

01:19:37   standing immediately in the vicinity of [TS]

01:19:39   it but as you get further away from any [TS]

01:19:43   one particular death in either time or [TS]

01:19:46   geography that death recedes and [TS]

01:19:49   importance until right now there are [TS]

01:19:52   hundreds of thousands of people dying [TS]

01:19:53   all around the world of various causes [TS]

01:19:55   some of them incredibly in just but none [TS]

01:19:58   of us are thinking about them or have [TS]

01:20:01   the capacity to think about them and [TS]

01:20:04   what what what confuses me is that [TS]

01:20:06   sometimes we will decide that one [TS]

01:20:11   person's life or a small group of [TS]

01:20:13   people's lives have this sanctity all of [TS]

01:20:17   a sudden and that their deaths are so in [TS]

01:20:21   just because we imagine that the that [TS]

01:20:28   the there's injustice in the prematurity [TS]

01:20:31   of their death that their debt their [TS]

01:20:32   lives could have been prolonged or that [TS]

01:20:35   that the you know that the the deaths [TS]

01:20:39   are the product of some conspiracy and [TS]

01:20:45   it's never a question of like that [TS]

01:20:47   person's you know like James [TS]

01:20:48   Gandolfini's death is a tragedy because [TS]

01:20:50   of all the movies he didn't make and I i [TS]

01:20:54   saw a movie with him the other day and I [TS]

01:20:55   was like that makes me sad his death is [TS]

01:20:57   a tragedy i wish i had seen some movies [TS]

01:20:58   he made but some more movies that he [TS]

01:21:02   made but really no James Gandolfini died [TS]

01:21:05   when he died and he did what he did and [TS]

01:21:10   there isn't a tragic element to it [TS]

01:21:13   ultimately its it is a it in a way there [TS]

01:21:18   is no tragedy because [TS]

01:21:23   all things are happening as they are [TS]

01:21:26   happening you know it's it is a trick of [TS]

01:21:29   the mind to think that really that there [TS]

01:21:35   is such a thing as injustice and it [TS]

01:21:40   isn't to say that that trick of the mind [TS]

01:21:42   isn't real and that we don't live in a [TS]

01:21:44   world where that trick of the mind is as [TS]

01:21:47   real to us as anything but it is a [TS]

01:21:53   technology of the mind it's an it's up [TS]

01:21:56   it's an idea a mental process that we [TS]

01:22:02   don't investigate we we just think we [TS]

01:22:08   accept the notion that but there are [TS]

01:22:12   tragic deaths and the more boxes we can [TS]

01:22:17   take off prevent to bowl a violent [TS]

01:22:22   uncool somebody else profited you know [TS]

01:22:26   we're checking up all these boxes in on [TS]

01:22:28   the injustice checklist and we will [TS]

01:22:32   check out enough of them and it's like [TS]

01:22:33   this is an injustice and this other one [TS]

01:22:36   is more just and then that one is a [TS]

01:22:39   righteous longer whatever and it's just [TS]

01:22:40   like it's all part of a it's all part of [TS]

01:22:45   a game we're playing with ourselves that [TS]

01:22:47   we're not that we don't reflect on my [TS]

01:22:51   guess is my only comment on it and I [TS]

01:22:54   wish we did [TS]

01:22:58   is this another one [TS]

01:23:05   not gonna put out yeah but this 1i have [TS]

01:23:10   to be so bad [TS]