The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► come see the Cassidy and comfortable and [TS]

00:00:01 ◼   ► many other podcasts at the now hear this [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► festival in anaheim california October [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► 28 through 30th do now here is this best [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► dot-com [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► the in time purple known 316 September [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► 2016 welcome back everybody to be [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► uncomfortable i'm your host Jason [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► stellar here for another edition of our [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► book club we're gonna be talking about i [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► would say a classic book or at least a [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► book that is not a current release it is [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► a book from 1996 which means we are [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► celebrating its 20th anniversary which [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► kind of hard to believe the book that I [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► really love when i read the first time [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► and i re-read it for this podcast it's [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► the sparrow a science fiction novel [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► don't let anybody tell you otherwise a [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► science fiction novel by Mary Doria [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► wrestle joining me to talk about the [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► sparrow are the following Erica and sign [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► hello hello and shannon sudderth hello [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► laughing keys and mr. book club himself [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► hi guess who's coming multi hello [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► so the sparrow some of us have read it [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► before I believe Shannon and scott and i [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► have read it before but that Erica it [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► was new to you is that right i had never [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► even heard of it [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► well for you so in that new why did you [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► agree to be on this podcast that's the [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► thing i want to know i don't know and i [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► saw i saw your your erica has been [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► tweeting and posting our slack about the [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► experience of reading this book to which [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► i guess i would say thank you for [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► showing up and for reading to the end [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► mmm i got all the way through all the [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► way through got to the end that America [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► if you if you abide by the if you have [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► nothing nice to say say nothing at all [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► you're going to be very quiet very musky [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► sure i'm not gonna be that quiet reading [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► it again I realize all the reasons why i [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► love this book and I also realized and I [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► got to look out for all in detail all [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► the things that i have a problem with [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► about this book and that was good it was [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► it was enjoyable to revisit it after i [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► don't think i read in 1996 but I [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► probably read it not too long after a [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► year or two after so it's been almost 20 [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► years since i read this book the sparrow [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► is the first novel by Mary Doria wrestle [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► she has written many books since she is [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► not really a science fiction writer [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► although her first two books for science [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► fiction [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► she's written a whole bunch of other [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► stuff in a bunch of different different [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► genres she definitely has a focus on [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► she's got a lot of Catholicism happening [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► and and [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► a lot of her novels this book is about a [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► first-contact situation [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► it basically is the SETI program that [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► they are Arecibo radio Observatory in [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► Puerto Rico picks up radio broadcasts [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► very much if you see the movie contact [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► you get the idea what's going on here [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► and then what happens next is that the [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► Jesuits basically by an asteroid on the [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► cheap and fly it to this tile for [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► Centauri where they have picked up these [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► signals in order to make a first contact [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► with the aliens there and they arrive [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► before anyone else and our main [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► characters are the members of that crew [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► the story is told in two different time [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► lines in 2020 or thereabouts-- 2015 to [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► 2020 when they are headed out they [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► discovered the signal and they're headed [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► out to Alpha Centauri and in 2060 in the [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► aftermath of the mission when the sole [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► survivor of the mission and we don't [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► really know quite what that means when [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► this starts the the kind of disgraced [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► sole survivor has returned to Earth and [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► as being interrogated by the leader of [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► the Jesuits about this terrible mission [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► that has happened that has almost ruined [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► the society of jesus and and so it's a [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► very interesting premise for a novel and [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► their yes there are a lot of aliens and [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► stuff in it too which is why despite the [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► fact that some people said well it's not [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► really science fiction at the time she [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► was going to be 17 [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► yeah because literary aspirations [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► science fiction doesn't grapple with [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► large issues of faith and and society [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► and thinks he actually it does it is [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► science fiction and it's got aliens in [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► it to prove it [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► so that's that's the sparrow it is it is [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► at its core story about about Emilio [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► sandoz a Jesuit priest who is the only [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► survivor and how he got on this mission [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► to go to this of this planet and meet [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► these aliens and what happened and what [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► happened when he got back home [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► so that's a yes that's the sparrow it's [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► got a lot of interesting issues about [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► about faith about society about how we [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► interpret them the meaning of life about [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► other other people and other beings and [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► there's a whole lot here [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► so I don't know maybe we should start [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► with some initial impressions about this [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► book i'm gonna i'm gonna hold off in [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► America because she just read it and i'm [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► going to start with sort of like how [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► this book lived in your memory and and [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► your experience of rereading it so [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► Shannon how about you and you you read [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► this a while ago and then reread it for [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► this podcast is that right [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► that is right i went through a period in [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► the early audis of trying to make myself [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► read more science fiction and less [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► fantasy because i'm @hardwick fantasy [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► girl but we were I was the literary [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► chair for a local khan and our guest was [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► vernor vinge Eve and I had never read [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► anything by him so I made myself read [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► one of his more recent books before [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► meeting him and working with him on the [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► con and i decided i really need to fix [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► this and kept going and looking for [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► various things and the sparrow happened [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► to be one of them i'm not sure but now i [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► don't remember exactly what it was [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► whether it was word of mouth from [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► friends or just seeing it on a shelf [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► something of that maybe say you know I [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► wonder what this is like [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► but in that period of reading syfy this [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► is honestly only one of two pieces the [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► other one being the red mars trilogy by [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► Kim Stanley Robinson that I remember [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► reading and at the time truly being [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► blown away by on because it had this [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► combination of explaining the science in [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► a way that 1i could understand but to [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► did not feel spelled out or dumped down [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► and number two as you said dealing with [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► these huge philosophical spiritual [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► forces of nature you know all these [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► different things anthropological things [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► dealing with them in intricate ways [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► without pulling punches and three the [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► thing that struck me most of all was the [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► characters this this band of people that [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► were pulled together to uh to go on this [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► trip just totally grabbed me their [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► interactions their dialogue of Russell I [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► think has a at least in this book a [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► really strong [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► sense of character and is able to bring [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► them out and make them live off the page [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► in a way I wasn't seeing another science [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► fiction books which is of course why [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► some people choose to call it not [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► science fiction but as you said it [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► totally is [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► it's classic science fiction i think i [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► think the interviewing 20 years famous [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► library and Nancy Pearl has I don't know [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► if she's officially recant your [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► statement about the sparrow but she has [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► come out as a proponent of science [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► fiction it seems like she's backed off [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► on her original review of the Spirit [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► which is that it was too good to be [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► science fiction which is shameful but [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► that was 20 years ago and people can [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► grow and change Scott what's your memory [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► of the sparrow and and when did you read [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► it and what do you think at the time [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► well i believe i read it when it first [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► came out and it hit me for a number of [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► reasons AI think it's just a fantastic [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► book but i also was raised Roman [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► Catholic so it had that layer and i also [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► went to a Jesuit High School so I was [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► very familiar with the society of jesus [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► and Jesuits in general and in fact it is [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► the Jets who I have to thank for making [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► me an atheist because whatever that is [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► something something everyone is they [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► teach you critical thinking and [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► throughout my four years of high school [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► and when i first went to high school I [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► was pretty sure I was going to become a [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► priest and by the time I left high [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► school I was pretty sure that there was [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► no God so all right [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► it was my legs Jesuits Thank You Jesuits [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► it was because of the Jesuits they [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► taught me critical thinking and I was [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► telling this story to one of my [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► co-workers the other day and she said [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► well the gesture was actually might not [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► be so upset about that because they [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► would be happy that you at least applied [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► critical thinking through the process [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► and i said well i think they still can't [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► believe in god that's kind of one of [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► their central today out soho even happy [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► maybe someone has been going to the [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► alcohol but so the stars align in this [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► book because a it the biggest thing is [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► dealing with his faith right and how [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► your you how you deal with it how you [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► you know there are many priests in this [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► book and they all have different ways of [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► expressing their faith [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► and I enjoy that many of them you know [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► you always hear the story of how you [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► know God speaks to you and then you take [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► up a vocation and certainly that happens [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► but the characters in this book was [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► basically say well i'm not insane i [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► don't hear voices i am just not this the [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► way I express my faith is through my [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► actions and that's how I you know honor [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► god I've never actually talked to God [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► but you know with the main character [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► goes through a journey where he kind of [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► you know he believes in god please never [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► had a bad experience with God and then [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► he kind of he thinks he does right and [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► it sends him off to this and then of [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► course the end it may not turn out so [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► well for him but yeah that that's one of [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► the challenges that Santos basis is he [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► he feels finally that he's had his [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► moment of understanding of what His [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► purposes and what God wants him to do [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► and terrible things happen after that's [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► a boot the thing i didn't remember i [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► remember one central terrible thing that [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► happens to him or to actually but I [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► didn't remember all of the terrible [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► things that happen through so as i was [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► reading it as like this gracious me a [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► lot of bad things happened to this man [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► and everyone who goes to the planet [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► uh-huh and it just also reinforce the [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► idea in that I like novels in which the [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► main character suffer literally which [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► which I don't tend to like I said you [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► know my my memory of the book was that [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► you know that it was powerful that it [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► was you know I i grabbed onto it because [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► it was science science fiction yes you [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► know but I could hold up a [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► science-fiction book to all my friends [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► and say this is worth reading arm but [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► you like Scott I did had general [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► generalities of things that had happened [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► I had I'd somewhat forgotten the dual [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► timelines structure that it was there [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► all the way through and not just like at [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► the beginning and towards the end and it [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► took me a while to get back into reading [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► this because as things started [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► developing I'm just like oh yeah I [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► remember [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► oh no oh man [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► but it when they hit to the point that [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► you described where um where a jimmy [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► Quinn discovers the music that there is [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► an actual comprehensible message in what [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► he thought was just some random blip [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► from SETI and things start getting [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► together of the people started all the [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► different characters start interacting [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► they start you know what essentially [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► it's like you know yeah let's let's all [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► be in a band together to build a [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► spaceship there is a bit goofy how they [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► do it but the enthusiasm that got me [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► back into it which made remembering some [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► of the things that happen along the way [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► even harder and I'd forgotten just how [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► powerful those last scenes are when the [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► final revelations happen [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► let's go to Erica erica your newbie you [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► read this is the first time I don't [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► think you know what you're getting into [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► before we go into some specifics here i [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► would like to hear your overview of your [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► of your experience with this book [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► well I did going completely cold i offer [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► it's so rare that I get to go into a [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► movie or a book or anything without [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► knowing anything about it so I'm always [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► excited when that happens I can just go [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► into something completely cold and i [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► think this is one of those times where [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► complete it just backfired because had I [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► known what this book was about going in [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► i would have realized that this is a [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► book that is like in capital letters not [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► for Erica ah for yeah I have a you know [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► up maybe I'm like the opposite of Scott [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► here my my personal relationship with [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► the with church stuff is is is [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► complicated in such a way that it very [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► much turns me off anytime that it isn't [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► it in in a book [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► so while I will when I will agree with [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► with all of the non emotional reactions [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► you guys had to this book it is very [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► well written it is very well crafted [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► this is a good book capital g capital be [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► good book but it is just so not the kind [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► of thing that I enjoy that I i don't [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► know why i kept pushing through it with [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► this infinite this had been an episode 4 [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► of like award reading or or even when [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► we're we're doing two or three books or [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► something like that I probably would [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► have just stopped reading and [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► and not finished it and that now that i [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► have gotten all the way to the end of [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► the book I i think that that would have [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► been better huh [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► for me I can't argue with any of the [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► stuff that you guys have have said about [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► its its quality it just yes it is it is [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► very philosophical and that is so not my [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► kind of another kind of thing [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► yeah and I think that's one of the keys [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► in that it delves into all these issues [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► of spirituality and you know like you [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► Erica I'm not got you an agnostic the [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► fairest thing to say as far as my [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► spirituality but this particular book at [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► least not once do i as the reader feel [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► like I'm being preached at and I think [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► that is a marvelous marvelous thing that [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► Russell manages to do to make this book [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► a huge search thru spirituality how [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► people arrive at their spirituality what [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► happens when their spirituality seems to [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► fail them and yet I as a reader not once [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► felt like I was being told you should [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► believe anything [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► yes I i should point out that that is [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► absolutely not you know that that's not [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► my complaint I i agree with that she did [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► a wonderful job of sort of walking that [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► line of I mean you guys mentioned her [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► characters and and you're right these [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► are very well realized characters they [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► all have inner lives two to one degree [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► or another so I felt like I knew who [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► these people were so the the examination [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► of the spirituality is very much carried [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► out from the perspective of each one of [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► these characters and I did not feel like [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► there was a view that I was supposed to [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► be associating with more than any of the [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► rest so that was that was a very nice [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► thing it didn't make any more [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► comfortable for me reading it but at [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► least I didn't feel like I was being [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► preached to you know one of things then [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► forgive me for this guy because i'm [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► going to hear a little bit away from [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► Star Trek here but as we have to host of [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► the audio guide about 15 hear that one [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► of the things always appreciate about [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► the TV show Babylon 5 was similarly the [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► fact that it took religion seriously and [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► that was a show written by an atheist [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► but the fact was that he felt like you [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► know what [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► in the future in a few hundred years [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► we're gonna suddenly not have religion [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► that's been with us for thousands of [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► years probably going to be important to [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► humanity for a very very long time if [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► not forever [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► the existence of humanity so [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► I mention that because as somebody who [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► is not a believer in pretty much [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► anything that's me i love seeing [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► portrayals of people struggling with [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► their faith and wondering about the [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► nature of God and in a science fictional [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► can't context I i think it's great [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► because i do think this is one of these [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► fundamental things about being a human [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► being and that's one of the reasons that [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► i actually really like this book is even [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► as and not a particularly religious [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► person I recognize the importance of [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► spirituality in a search for meaning in [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► people and and these characters are all [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► experiencing it and they're all [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► experiencing it from different areas [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► which is fascinating to me the fact that [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► you've got our main character is a [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► priest who basically has never kind of [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► never believed in god and feels really [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► bad about that which is fascinating to [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► me and and the idea that he has this [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► moment of clarity and feels that he [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► finally has his meeting and then things [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► go horribly wrong on this planet I mean [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► that the the the the title of the book [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► the sparrow is very specifically from a [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► passage in the Bible about how even when [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► a single sparrow falls dead God is aware [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► of it that the idea here that bad things [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► happen in the world to and God is aware [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► of that too well that I guess Amelia [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► sent this is the sparrow kind of e a [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► terrible things happen to him [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► I so so I I that aspect of it is [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► fascinating to be also i am a sucker for [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► first contact stories and this has that [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► it isn't you know like we said with the [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► station eleven episode the you know [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► still bear with me on this one Scott [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► station level was a book that a lot of [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► people didn't like because on our book [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► club because it is not very good at [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► science fiction showing an apocalypse [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► here i would say the sparrow similarly [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► if you're somebody good is going to get [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► caught up in the science of this you [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► know there's a lot of hand waving that [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► goes on about how they get to another to [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► another solar system right like that [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► they don't describe oh we invented a [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► drive that will take us there at half [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► speed of light or where they just kinda [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► she can you wave your hands and it's [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► fine that's not her strong suit no it's [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► not the Anthropology side [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► anthropologie side is her strong suit [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► and that shines through you have to [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► squint at the science you have to end [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► and for me it's okay because because the [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► culture when it was she when they get to [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► the planet red-hot it is it is so [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► interesting that it's fine and it's also [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► I my point is like with a station eleven [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► you know it [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► the details aren't the point here it's [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► actually more kind of like the end [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► result this is allegorical for the [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► presence of the Jesuits in the new world [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► essentially this is what would be a new [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► new world for the Jesuits to have to [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► have a first contact with and so it's a [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► it's an alien planet instead and that's [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► what she's really trying to do here in [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► fact i'm kind of impressed that she [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► tries as hard as she does to make a kind [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► of hold together in terms of the science [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► right because she could have completely [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► just punted and been like and then they [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► were on the other planet and instead she [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► tries to go through recibo and getting [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► the signals and all of that in the end [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► its and it's very exciting and I I [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► appreciate that because in the end [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► yes is it kind of ridiculous that six [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► people who were all together in Puerto [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► Rico when the signal was made are part [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► of a nine person or a person crew that [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► is the first prefers people to go to an [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► alien planet where where where alien [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► life has been discovered for the first [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► time before any governments or Space [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► Agency's seems kind of ridiculous to me [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► but you know what that's the story she [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► wants to tell and we kind of go with it [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► and I I mean I didn't it is ridiculous [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► but i did also kind of buy into it a [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► little bit because the the church [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► doesn't have this you know the rules and [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► regulations that i would imagine the [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► government would have to follow so they [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► can sounds like okay let's buy an [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► asteroid and let's go and that's what [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► they do and you know he convinces them [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► that we we should do this we have you [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► know priceless artwork that we can sell [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► on the download and get us a suite [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► asteroid and we can go off and you know [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► we happen to have the people we need to [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► make this a reality add a couple more [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► priests and add a couple priest instant [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► to just add Jesuits [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► yep the spirituality aspect of it is is [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► the biggest thing that turned me off [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► about it but I think even if somehow [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► this book were able to exist without [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► that which certainly I long as possible [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► but even if I had I still don't think [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► that it would have been something that [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► truly appealed to me because unlike [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► scott once again I am NOT a person who [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► really digs it when the the main [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► characters in books suffer a lot like I [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► don't mind some of it because you know [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► sometimes you need that for a good story [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► but I mean there's there's so few hours [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► in the day that I get to read that I [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► tend to like my escapism to be a little [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► bit more escapee and and have something [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► a little little bit lighter to to deal [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► with and also the man to sort of [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► back-and-forth flipping is is a thing [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► that sometimes i like and sometimes I [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► don't in this case it you find out at [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► the very very very beginning that [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► everything goes horribly wrong and it's [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► just it's a journey of discovery to find [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► out how things went wrong so that just [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► had me kind of you know the clenched [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► heart all the way through like what is [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► going to happen I know something is [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► going to be awful and I like i would i [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► would rather know hit the outset that [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► it's gonna end very badly then have it [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► seemed like everything's gonna be fine [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► and then it ends terribly so I guess [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► this is this is a little bit better than [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► that but but still i just spent the [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► whole thing with a feeling of great [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► dread yeah I was kind of surprised that [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► i managed to sort of lose that dread [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► somewhat once the the 2019 once the [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► current day quote unquote a timeline [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► started kicking together I was kind of [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► surprised that I think the characters [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► you know we're strong enough and having [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► so much fun with each other that it that [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► drew me back in on just like it did the [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► first time I mean you know that i've [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► read when i read this book the first [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► time like you said it tells you right at [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► the beginning things really went [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► downhill and yet the first time around i [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► managed to forget a lot of that until [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► the last third of the book when it [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► started really going downhill and [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► gathering speed on and it almost [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► happened to me again [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► Yesi whereas i was just i felt like it [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► was such work reading this book that I [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► got toward the end and you know that [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► some things that have [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► and some things hadn't happened yet and [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► i was just finding myself going ok I've [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► actually you know I've learned to maybe [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► not like so much but at least appreciate [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► some of these characters because they [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► were very well written but I literally [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► found myself thinking oh my god just die [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► already look like regular people like I [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► like you but I know something Bad's [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► gonna happen to you so can we please [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► just get it over with [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► just and I did I think the structure to [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► your point Erica makes it all the more [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► worse because you know at the beginning [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► that you first meet sandoz and he's a [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► broken character and then you flipped [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► back to the past and he's like this [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► bubbly guy that everybody likes it he's [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► making jokes is helping everybody at you [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► just like oh now i'm just gonna watch [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► this person basically have the worst [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► several years of his life and then come [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► back and continue to downward trend so [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► it's not not gonna be a great pleasure [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► ride this episode of the incomparable is [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► brought to you by Casper asleep brand [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► that created one perfect mattress sold [TS]

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00:23:29 ◼   ► was developed in-house it has a sleek [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► design and it's delivered in a small box [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► so small that you will say how did they [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► do that the answer is vacuum technology [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► I think something like that involves [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► sucking all the air out and it fits in a [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► box and then you open it and push it [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► expands back to its normal size addition [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► to that that mattress though that [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► Casper's famous for [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► they also offer an adaptive pillow which [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► I have as well and soft breathable [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► sheets I've got those two boy [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► yeah it's all good stuff it really is an [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► in-house team of engineers a Casper [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► spent thousands of hours developing the [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► mattress it's got spring latex and [TS]

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00:24:17 ◼   ► to help you regulate your temperature [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► through the night [TS]

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00:24:29 ◼   ► Queen up to 9 50 for a king buying a [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► Casper mattress completely risk-free if [TS]

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00:24:37 ◼   ► want to buy a mattress on the internet [TS]

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00:24:50 ◼   ► money back it is that simple [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► so obsessively Matt engineering mattress [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► shockingly fair price a great feel free [TS]

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00:25:22 ◼   ► Casper for sponsoring the incomparable [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► so I'm gonna free everybody here I mean [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► you shouldn't be listening if you have [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► read the book but if you have are still [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► listening we're gonna fire off a cry [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► sort of a friendly spoiler horn right [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► there just to make it clear before we go [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► even deeper down in to the sparrow and [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► if you like what you've heard from me [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► and Shannon and Scott maybe you should [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► read it and if you like what you heard [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► America don't really hear [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► it's beautiful music I feel like some of [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► these episodes the spoiler horn is [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► implied for the whole thing because why [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► but yes I feel like we haven't like dug [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► down into some of the worst of it which [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► I'm gonna do right now because I mean [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► when we talk about the two time frames [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► right um i think it's interesting that [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► that you could argue that this is trying [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► to cushion the blow a little bit but of [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► course i think also it's the structure [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► is that she kind of wants the descent [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► into darkness and the kind of like an [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► ascent into finding a reason to live [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► happen in parallel I mean I think that's [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► what she's trying to do here it does [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► give you the descent from the beginning [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► when you're watching all these people [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► who are very excited about this [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► first-contact situation and going to [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► this planet [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► you already know that something horrible [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► is going to happen and so that color's [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► your judgment of it which it's it's an [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► interesting choice I gotta say from the [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► perspective of 20 years later one of the [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► things about this book that did not [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► impress me at all is one of the conceits [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► here is that sandoz is returned by this [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► second the second mission 2 rakaat he is [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► he is found in a dungeon [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► this is what happens he's found in a [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► dungeon as the sex slave of an alien and [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► they in all of his other and he and he [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► seen killing an alien as they find him [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► and then they put him on his asteroid [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► ship and send it back to earth and radio [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► back so it reaches them much before the [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► the ship does that about this terrible [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► you know state that they found him in [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► and from the perspective of 2016 reading [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► this I could not buy for a moment that [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► the discovery of him [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► everybody refers to him in the in the [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► present timeline when he's this [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► disgraced and disfigured because he said [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► this horrible operation down his hands [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► by these aliens as a prostitute and they [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► everybody just assumes like okay first [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► off let's let's break this down [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► first off that he was a prostitute when [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► they find him in a sex dungeon being a [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► you know for for these aliens literally [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► naked and bloody yeah nobody thinks one [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► nobody thinks that perhaps another [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► possibility was that he [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► was forced into this and to when they [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► call him a prostitute they assume it [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► means that he was a willing and joyous [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► prostitute which is also i think not [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► something that you should assume and so [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► it in reading this it this time I was [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► like I i didn't i didn't buy that whole [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► part of it makes everybody on earth [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► essentially in the end in a later time [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► frame seemed kinda like a dummy that [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► because she wants this revelatory moment [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► when he says no i wasn't doing that [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► because I enjoyed being raped by aliens [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► it was raped and and they're like what [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► it was rape I had no idea it's like yeah [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► you should've picked that up like when [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► they radioed it back you should have [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► figured that out [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► mmm yes yeah that was that was my other [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► big problem which I didn't know if we [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► were in spoiler horn territory so I [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► couldn't say that made me actually angry [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► at this book because it's just I mean [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► really the where we start out is in the [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► the 2060 sort of present day and the [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► whole framework of this book is based on [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► the slow kind of on unveiling of what [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► this character has gone through and and [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► why he's he's so shamed and and and this [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► is it I mean it just it nerf the rest of [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► the Baltimore me to a really large [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► degree [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► yeah and I didn't feel that way 20 years [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► ago but I I'm more aware of stuff like [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► that now where I and and knowing what [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► happens in the book and now i'm judging [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► it on the reread based on what I already [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► know what's going to happen i thought [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► it's completely impossible to me that [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► nobody would think that at any point I [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► mean yeah I grant that there was a radio [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► report from some people who had a skewed [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► view of it and then he's silent because [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► he's just kind of like coming back and [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► he's completely comatose essentially and [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► he won't talk to people so they don't [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► know his part that nobody in the 20 [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► intervening years has not considered as [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► a serious possibility that he is the [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► victim of a horrible crime and yet i [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► think because Russell wants us to have [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► that revelatory moment and I was [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► thinking as I was reading like you know [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► the way to tell this story is probably [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► to have him just be found in prison and [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► have them not understand [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► just how awful his conditions were and [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► then at the end of the book him having [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► realized no actually they kept me [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► frizzled those last 10 months that i was [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► on that planet as a sex slave and raped [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► me repeatedly and have everybody be [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► horrified when he admits that this is [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► part this terrible thing that happened [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► to him but instead everybody knows and [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► they assume it's his fault and there and [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► they're blaming the victim because he [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► was wearing [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► he was wearing a jeweled collar don't [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► you know I'm part of it is that um I [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► think in this is a Russell doing some [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► criticism possibly of how quick human [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► how quick it is in human nature is to [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► look for the scapegoat we don't get a [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► huge amount of detail but the fact that [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► the the Jesuits you know since this was [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► a private enterprise essentially just [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► sort of you know snuck you know their [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► team often into the asteroid before the [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► United Nations or anybody else was even [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► aware that somebody was actually going [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► to try that the arm try to contact this [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► planet a lot of people it was public [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► that the contact has been made but um [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► but no nobody official no government [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► tried to do anything about it as quickly [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► as the Jesuits did on and then for it to [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► go so completely pear-shaped and buried [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► all the transmissions right so it is [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► nobody knows that's been a media [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► blackout the scandal as a result when [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► the UN committee when the UN [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► representatives are as part of the [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► second group get there you know they yes [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► they jump to the wrong conclusion [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► extremely stupidly arm but they are also [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► looking at the entire rest of the crew [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► is dead and the planet that they came to [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► visit which apparently when they arrived [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► was in this nice peaceful planet and [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► everything's hunky-dory is now going [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► through a civil war you know then that [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► and the UN is either looking they're all [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► looking for somebody to blame at the [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► moment [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► sandoz is the only one to blame so [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► they've got this tunnel vision and jump [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► and like jumping to conclusions i agree [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► if this book was written today I don't [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► think Russell would have had every [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► single character more or less believing [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► the original story somebody would have [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► question [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► didn't but this was 1996 and gender [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► issues and so forth have advanced since [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► then also and in the books defense guess [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► I didn't say that i do think that it [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► took so long for him in first time for [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► him to travel back and the only [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► information that they had you know why [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► wouldn't they trust the word of these un [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► advisor people because they probably [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► didn't give super great details about [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► the fact that he was naked and dirty and [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► bloody and you know it [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► non-responsive physically after they [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► after they release him [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► yeah the first thing they saw him do [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► when they go into that cell of the alien [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► girl who as a very young child [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► sandoz had managed to make first contact [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► whether his talent is linguistics and [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► he's able to soak in and create and [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► figure out languages very quickly on so [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► the idea that this was a an alien that [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► knew who he was and it sounded like that [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► they were supposed to be at least [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► friendly but sandoz attacks the second [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► the seller's opened we learn that he [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► sort of psych himself up into I'm going [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► to end this one way or the other I'm [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► getting out or I'm dying and it's just [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► horrible bad luck that the first person [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► through the door is this young alien [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► girl and the first thing those you when [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► people see is him run into her smack or [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► so hard into the wall that she breaks [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► her skull or her ribcage and kills her [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► rights and so is that so the the thing [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► is that these guys have basically grown [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► up live most of their lives knowing they [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► think what the deal is with this guy so [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► I mean it's it is a pretty ingrained [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► idea of what had happened to him so I [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► mean I still don't completely by it but [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► at least at least you know if they they [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► had an awful long time to have believed [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► this thing so that that meeting this [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► weird guy is probably not going to [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► completely jar that out of their minds [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► yeah I yeah I just feel like from the [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► perspective of 20 years later I'm like [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► oh it's it could have been tweaked a [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► little bit and been much more kind of [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► believable to me then that it actually [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► is [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► let's say I mean we should let's talk [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► about the food [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► there's so much here I the characters [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► are really interesting we we we meet we [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► meet another another Jesuit who is we we [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► find out right before he dies it's very [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► much a i'm going to download all my [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► final information before I die [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► who is his mentor that he's actually a [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► gay priests and because and I think what [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► honestly one of the reasons that the the [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► rape is part of the story of Santos is [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► because she wants to us to think about [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► and we we do for the whole book think [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► about thousands of celibacy here because [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► of course and O's falls in love and [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► basically pushes the woman who falls in [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► love with away because he has you know [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► he he's now kind of high on his final [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► hit you know it's sudden contact with [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► what he believes is his destiny guided [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► by god I'm so that that's part of the [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► theme there but that's an interesting [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► character he's a Texan we've got the the [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► uh it's a Jewish artificial artificial [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► intelligence experts who makes her [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► living she's a vulture she makes her [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► living basically scripting people's [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► brains like into computer code so that [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► they can be a little jobs can be [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► eliminated but he falls in love with her [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► and I thought it was interesting that [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► the her character is a oh well not owned [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► but yeah surfing right for most of the [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► book in this guy who pays deals and [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► basically pietrzyk people futures right [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► he pays for he identifies a talented [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► poor children and put them through [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► school and you know identifies their [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► their talent and then they basically [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► have to work off all of the money he's [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► invested in them so they contract them [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► out and she is one of those people and I [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► just thought that was something that did [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► not seem that far-fetched to actually [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► happening now today his which made me [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► depressed [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► yeah that was a bit so the whole Sophia [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► mendez story is like a little like other [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► science-fiction novel that she could [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► have written because that that that the [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► idea there also you know she's [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► extrapolating 20 years ahead in her [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► future there is a [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► it's actually not too far off of what is [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► happened in Syria happens in this book [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► in turkey where there are right up there [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► terrorists and a war a civil war and you [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► end up with she's basically her parents [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► are killed and she is she is sold off [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► into prostitution first and then becomes [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► an indentured slave and a highly [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► educated professional at that point but [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► she still got the fact that she wears [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► this like bracelet that is her symbol of [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► being owned until she can pay off her [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► debt and it's a it's a whole interesting [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► idea that is kind of just tossed off as [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► a a side aspect of this plot but another [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► thing to felt like a whole very [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► interesting science fictional premise [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► what about the UH I mean that if anybody [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► have any other characters that they want [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► to talk about and we can we get we get [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► Jimmy Quinn who is your stock uh he's [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► just a big science nerd who discovers [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► aliens you know as you do you dig [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► literally like I'm feet 7 yeah he's the [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► 777 and a half foot er um I like all the [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► aliens think so clearly he's your mother [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► and you should be carrying our house [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► install yeah i'll come back to that [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► later but yeah the fact that they're [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► judging each other's races the humans [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► and the the Runa is the first group of [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► aliens they meet on this planet and [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► they're judging gender by size and they [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► figure out much later just how scrambled [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► everything has gotten that apparently [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► you know Emilio's studies in the [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► language he made the same assumptions as [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► far as which gender is being declined [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► with which noun and finding out that yes [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► they all assume that big seven-foot-tall [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► Jimmy was the mom because he was the [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► biggest you know if it had been just [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► just sighs that was the gender thing i [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► would have I would have found it amusing [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► and interesting but no this is another [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► this is another sign that this book was [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► written 20 years ago because it was and [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► the anthropologist also makes note of [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► the fact that it wasn't just the size [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► but it was also the moral duties that [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► very happened and you know who is taking [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► care of the children and and being sort [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► of more maternal [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► that sort of thing and I when he was [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► going out of business in the bigger [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► world yeah that's true but it's not flip [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► with rona isn't that wasn't that the [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► point there is everybody's making gender [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► gender assumptions and it's the opposite [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► right but she was she was just saying [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► that that humans still have a certain [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► gender assumptions which is the thing [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► that was problematic for me at this at [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► this point it's 2020 now milan i did i [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► did laugh at the point where the book is [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► taking place in what is now our present [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► day and that was although although she [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► didn't get tablets right shit these [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► people are using tablets a lot like all [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► right that's pretty good [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► yep it's pretty good job and Jimmy [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► Jimmy's a home computer gets hacked into [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► by some teenagers that students write [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► something about that right yeah they're [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► so there's some some paper at one point [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► that I was like nope that's probably not [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► right but I thought you did okay with [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► that as far as characters i love the [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► Edwardses oh yeah I love the it's this [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► it's a couple that you know you would [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► not automatically assume to be the type [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► of people to go on this mission they are [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► in their sixties they essentially have [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► retired and are doing volunteer / [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► mission work in Puerto Rico that they're [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► a hoot and a half [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► just the way the conversations between [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► them the way that they quit back and [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► forth and with their friends is [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► delightful but the that these are not [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► your standard um hero's journey go off [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► and quest type two kinds of people which [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► i think is great i think yeah that was [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► one of the things I like to the best i [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► think and the most because you get to [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► see a lot of her inner life as compared [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► with George most of his inner life is is [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► shown through and over but i just-i I [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► liked her as a character i liked the way [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► that she reacted to other people and to [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► think she was thinking and I just you're [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► right that the hoot and a half thing I [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► wanted them to be my friends I want to [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► go i wanted to go to their house and how [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► many of them are these girls parties [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► because she just [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► yeah she sounded like the greatest host [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► in the world yeah it's a fun you know [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► these characters meet sandoz earlier on [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► and then he basically says you should [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► come to Puerto Rico and they're like [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► yeah let's do it and they're there are a [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► lot of fun and this is that's one of the [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► things about this that [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► about this like let's let's buy an [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► asteroid not tell anybody that I kind of [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► like is that you know when else are you [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► going to see a story about a bunch of [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► friends deciding that they're gonna be [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► the ones to send a spaceship for a first [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► contact with aliens it's like that is [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► not gonna happen right and yet that is [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► the purpose of this tour including the [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► retired husband and wife who are the [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► last people that you would normally [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► expect to see in a first-contact space [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► mission but they go and of course which [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► is where you really need you really need [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► the God aspect of it there because that [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► does actually make it work without [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► feeling hand-wavy because you can just [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► be like okay you know [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► Yeah right right although the what's [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► interesting about the the couple is that [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► the the wife who's the doctor is um is a [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► basically completely lapsed Catholic and [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► although she may potentially change your [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► tune when they get to the alien planet [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► you know she's she's among a lot of [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► people who are believers she is not one [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► and it's a very interesting kind of kind [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► of combination that they have their it's [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► a good yeah those are really good [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► characters the dialogue is really good [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► with those characters I felt like a lot [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► of these characters really jump off the [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► page not only sandoz but the the couple [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► and Sophia mendez and the the Texan [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► priests to who is a mentor [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► these are all characters that this is [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► one of those books where i can actually [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► like I i start to cast people and staged [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► scenes and higher their voices talking [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► because the characters are so strong and [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► and memorable I let's talk about aliens [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► how about that no okay Scott you can [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► stick limes so we get direct we get 2 [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► rakaat day they take a hollowed-out [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► remaining asteroid and they threw [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► magical undescribed of engine AI program [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► is slightly physics you can accelerate [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► and how they do that we don't know and [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► then they decelerate and then they get 2 [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► rakaat and you know it it's fine and and [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► they meet it and i really like i said [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► i'm a sucker for first contact up i [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► really like first off they land kinda [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► like far away from everything and [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► they're just sort of like basking in the [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► you know in the in being off [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► the asteroid 41 and in this new [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► ecosystem of all alien stuff that they [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► don't know anything about and they have [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► to like eat little bit of food to see if [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► the current it's poisonous or not which [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► I kind of enjoyed all of that and and [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► they do all of that and somebody dies [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► actually which land they don't know why [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► which I also really kind of like that [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► this is when you're getting to the [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► Jesuits coming to the new world right [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► which is there are far from home that [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► their that they're not going to just [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► subsist on their rations they are trying [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► to figure this out some of the people [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► aren't going to make it and and there's [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► not gonna be a clear reason why and then [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► they finally meet the the aliens on this [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► planet or at least they think of the [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► aliens on this planet which are the Runa [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► I'm and they and they have this question [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► of like they get some stuff confused but [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► because Santos is there because he's a [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► brilliant translator and they they spend [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► some time trying to figure out who these [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► people are and and and how their culture [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► works and I loved all of this stuff and [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► it goes i was i was happy I was afraid [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► that this was going to go on for like [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► one chapter and then be done and and my [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► memory of it is so warm that I wanted to [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► go on longer and in the book actually [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► goes on a very long time that they're [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► that this whole portion is but i really [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► enjoyed the whole first contact with [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► value with Runa I'd read that as well [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► but i do think there's they they spend [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► like a year in this little village and [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► they never liked feet ask about the city [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► and try to get more information I found [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► an odd but i did--like i enjoyed reading [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► about it but I was like if i was there i [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► might you know go check out the city or [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► something I don't know it seems very [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► tempting but maybe they're so [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► overwhelmed with the the novelty like [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► everything is new on this alien planet [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► obviously they're writing scholarly [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► papers about the you know they're taking [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► it slow [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► yeah i think part of it is being [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► cautious and I'd I'm under the [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► impression that at least among [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► themselves some of the characters are [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► saying you know we really need to you [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► know try and you know try and find the [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► people who are the singers because the [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► whole reason they've come to this planet [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► is the music that the city picked up and [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► this particular population they don't [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► music no they don't do it but i can see [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► i think maybe it does stretch on a [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► little bit farther than it could that [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► might need to but [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► there's always seems to be something [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► else to do something else to take care [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► of before trying to go on to the next [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► thing ya i have I'm of two minds about [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► this because on the one hand like I mean [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► it from a logical perspective it does [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► make sense to to sort of take your time [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► and do it methodically accept these are [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► people that immediately decided to jump [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► in an asteroid and go to another planet [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► so I don't feel like that that argument [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► that great with impulse control that [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► argument doesn't quite work however on [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► the other side the reason that they were [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► able to jump into an asteroid so quickly [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► is because they're Jesuits and it was [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► God's plan you know that this everything [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► seemed to and they didn't talk in detail [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► about all of the stuff that had to [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► miraculously happen in order for it to [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► fall into place but you know from and [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► musing musings that they make it very [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► clear that that everything sort of came [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► together perfectly at the last minute in [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► a way that did seem like it was [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► miraculous so it made it very easy for [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► the the higher-ups in the in the Jesuits [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► to to say yes you know this is this is [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► meant to be and I believe that there [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► were a couple of nods to that in that [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► like you know Jimmy really did want to [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► get out there and go in the city but for [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► one reason or another it seems like they [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► should stay there [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► you know the whole God's plan again [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► amelia was leaning that way right and [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► also um Russell does take care the the [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► first member of the crew to die of what [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► appears to be natural causes they try [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► you know that and the doctor tries to do [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► an autopsy and with essentially field [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► conditions and can't figure it out [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► that was the music expert right so like [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► the biggest driving force in the party [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► is removed very early on [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► yep yeah the other thing that's [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► brilliant that's like I said this is up [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► it makes it so clear that Russell [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► strength is anthropology because she [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► throws in the gender mix-up at the [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► beginning and you know it it turns out [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► to be fairly harmless they just have to [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► reassess what they had assumed and [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► rework some of their papers but you know [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► to make such a monumental [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► misunderstanding of of the gender of [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► these peak of the of the Runa arm and [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► then take something as simple as [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► you know we really need to grow our own [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► food you know we yes we can eat a lot of [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► the stuff on this planet but you know it [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► would help if we had our own and you [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► know just something simple as a plant a [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► garden in this village and and start [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► eating the stuff there [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► turns out to have catastrophic effects [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► on the biosphere because we learn that [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► there's a second alien race that [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► essentially you have a predator and prey [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► situation that has evolved into this [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► entire set of the job [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► the Jaffa Jaffa yeah this is what I want [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► when I tell you have the Jon a one of [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► the things that's interesting here is is [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► yes Shannon this day the innocence of we [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► need to grow a garden is the thing that [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► essentially destroys this planet at [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► least as it was before they got there [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► which is is a an amazing kind of moment [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► where it unravels gradually and they [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► realize what's going on [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► so you mentioned that we should say it [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► so there it turns out that this is a [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► planet with two races and the reason [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► that the Runa seem kind of dasol is that [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► they have evolved from prey animals and [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► there's another species that has [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► involved evolved as their predators and [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► they look similar because that was the [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► hunting method used by the historical [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► predators but the Janata have three [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► claws instead of sort of five very [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► dexterous fingers and when we meet one [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► of them and it almost kills sandoz when [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► we do we discovered that this planet is [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► far more complicated than they have [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► really anticipated and i like i like [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► when they're like with the with the Runa [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► because I feel like yeah they're they're [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► they're so overwhelmed with meeting [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► these people that they would they want [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► to kind of take it slow and i think i [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► can buy that but at that moment when [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► they meet the jaw nada is that [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► revelatory moments like oh this is much [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► more alien than we really expected and [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► we finally we'll go to the city with [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► them [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► it turns out that again Russell used the [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► the traditional kind of predator prey [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► population balance which is something [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► that's like three or four [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► scent of the population of this planet [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► is the jhana ahh because that's [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► generally the percentage of the ratio [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► between predators and prey and and when [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► you put it when you layer that on [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► sentient creatures and this was a moment [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► that I really liked you realize that [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► what you've constructed is a ruling [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► class a very small ruling class and a [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► very large essentially slave or surf [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► class and that's actually the culture of [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► ricotta and and not just a slave class [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► but they're still pray they still needs [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► to us its candidate to us it feels like [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► cannibalism because you've got to [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► sentient you know races and one of them [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► is eating the other but yeah we finally [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► learned that that's one of the reasons [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► that the population control is so rigid [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► the rihanna the Runa are not allowed to [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► breed are unless they earn it by [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► gathering uh apparently perfume scent is [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► massively a massive part of this culture [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► and uh the Runa gather of the flowers [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► and the plants needed to create these [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► perfumes and create these sense and if [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► they do a good enough job [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► hey they get the right to have a [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► generation kids that are better on bread [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► with butter chosen by John auto because [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► they're all the breeding them like [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► humans would breed dogs [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► yes yes exactly Jonna auto themselves [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► are also under population control [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► because they can't have too many of them [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► because they need to keep the balance of [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► the prey and the predator and so when [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► when she introduces a super pirate right [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► he's a third yeah he's the third so we [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► meet him before he meets the humans and [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► so we get we find out he's a third he [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► can't have he can start his own family [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► he really wants to he's really good at [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► you know finding trends and you know [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► cashing in on it so it's supremely [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► wealthy but he's cool finder he has a [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► cool he is it a friend spotter [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► super-wealthy is very successful but he [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► doesn't get any respect and he really [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► wants to start his own family and the [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► only way you can do that is if you get [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► one [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► what's the the dead head guys name [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► registrar I think oh yeah the rest are [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► yeah that's the title [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► yeah you have to you don't impress him [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► or do something worthy of being able to [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► found your own family and so we know [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► that's his motive and so when he meets [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► the humans we know a boy this is not [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► going to turn out well but they don't [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► know that obviously and spoiler alert it [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► doesn't know me he does he uses them for [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► his own he takes his time yeah yeah [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► that's right he uses he uses them but it [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► in the beginning using them is not a [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► particularly terrible but there comes a [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► moment where he basically has to sell [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► them out and does and without you know a [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► moment's hesitation without any [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► compulsion yeah because he's like [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► whatever [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► yeah I got what I wanted to get whatever [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► I mean at that point she had been told [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► he had made it would what seems like an [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► actual emotional connection with a and [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► but she dies much earlier on and by the [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► time that soup re-release actually sells [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► them out the only person left at that [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► point is Emilio whom he didn't really [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► care for to start with so I don't feel [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► like I don't feel like he's necessarily [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► you know it's throwing over some [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► convictions that he had because the fan [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► would have still been alive it might [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► have been a different story true it's [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► true [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► well in fact support you could argue is [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► is a be the thing that the NOC but he's [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► got a with the other Janata is that he's [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► so much he gets along so well with the [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► Runa and if you think if you think about [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► that any human context right [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► he is a member of a ruling class whose [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► greatest skill is dealing with the [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► subjugated class and that is not good [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► right even if it makes him a good [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► businessman it means he is going to [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► never be able to access high society [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► because of that because he's his is all [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► of his skills are in dealing with the [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► lower class of of people in this case [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► the Runa and so when he meets and and [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► really really kind of bonds with her i [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► believe that bond because I feel like [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► that's what he's good at is meeting with [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► other kinds of people he's kind of like [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► the anthropologist of the jama oughtta [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► but the problem is the only way he's [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► gonna be able to further his line is to [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► be appointed as the head of a new family [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► which means he's got his success thing [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► in the background and and you know and [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► eyes [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► off screen which I have a problem with [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► and and in the end he just goes another [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► direction but I think that's a really [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► interesting character because although [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► he portrays them at the end I think I i [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► like that character because he's kinda [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► portrayed as being an outcast from the [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► jaw nada he's more like us than the rest [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► of them are which i think is one of the [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► problems with them under estimating the [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► Janata as as a people is that the party [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► and the wrong model for what they are [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► because he's the weird he's a weirdo [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► definitely is a weird he's gone native [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► essentially with the with Runa and it [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► and now with the humans and you know do [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► not think that the rest of the people [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► are like him because they are really not [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► like him [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► yes they're their encounters with the [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► rest of Janata aren't the the free-range [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► Jonathan ahead with City Jedi are not so [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► good no right no we are either because [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► they're the roving bands who are still [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► sort of just acting as predators [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► I feel like I was like their loan motors [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► and they just go in and poach and sadly [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► they poach some humans they do so let me [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► let me so one of my remember 20 years [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► ago ish when I read this book that I did [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► it my biggest complaint about it is that [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► i felt like and i'm going to describe it [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► the way that I described it back then [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► which is I felt like at some point she [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► realized she needed to finish the book [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► and what who and what was a meandering [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► leisurely walk through dialogue and and [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► aggressions and descriptions rapidly [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► becomes a plot output to get to the end [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► yeah i buy it so this time this time i [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► watched for it and the fact is every [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► chapter alternates between the two [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► timelines until the last two chapters [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► and last two chapters are both in the [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► present-day the later timeline and they [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► describe everything that happened on the [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► planet in very short terms at a any [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► completely different style than the rest [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► of the book and it still frustrates me I [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► was wondering if I would be proven wrong [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► and rereading it and instead I was going [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► to vindicate its like I do feel driven [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► right I do feel like she ran out of time [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► or ran out [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► the of energy and she wanted to finish [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► but I also i don't know whether this is [TS]

00:56:48 ◼   ► true or not but I also feel like maybe [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► she was a little cowardly about her [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► killing her characters because we don't [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► see and DW get killed on screen and we [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► don't see the massacre that is the final [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► destruction of this mission to the whole [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► thing that they've been leading up to [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► where everything goes wrong it's this [TS]

00:57:08 ◼   ► incredibly dramatic thing and it is told [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► in this perfunctory flashback fashion [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► where we never really get to see it at [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► anything like the level of everything [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► else we've seen up to that point and its [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► really frustrating it's made a little [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► more frustrating by the fact that in the [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► sequel to this book which i also read 20 [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► or 15 15 years ago and was disappointing [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► i have to say it turns out that perhaps [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► one of the reasons that she did this is [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► because she was cheating and she wanted [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► to lie about exactly who died in that [TS]

00:57:39 ◼   ► massacre which is also frustrating but [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► anyway right [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► my point is my point is though that you [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► can't it seems to me as as a reader and [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► maybe even as an editor you can't be [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► going like 20 miles an hour taking in [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► all the sights and then when you get to [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► the key point in the book [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► floor it and that's what happens at the [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► end of this book i agree because I was [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► I've been my school is starting again so [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► you know I've been busy and rushed and [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► trying to read as best I could and here [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► i was i still have like 60 pages of the [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► book left to go at nine o'clock this [TS]

00:58:17 ◼   ► evening and we started recording at [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► ten-thirty my time and I'm thinking like [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► I don't know that i'll finish but i'm [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► going to try um yeah i was able to get [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► through 60 pages in like 45 minutes [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► because it is so much [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► boom boom boom report report report yeah [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► yeah it's not it's not your imagination [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► i can i can come up with the reason i [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► don't know if it's a good reason or not [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► but i'll try to explain it so i think it [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► could mirror one could argue sandoz [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► journey at the beginning of the book is [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► reticent he does want to talk about [TS]

00:58:49 ◼   ► anything he's thinking about remembering [TS]

00:58:51 ◼   ► the good times on the planet right and [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► then as we're getting through there's [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► that revelatory moments where they [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► figure out [TS]

00:58:57 ◼   ► you were in a prostitute you were being [TS]

00:58:58 ◼   ► gang-raped and he you know he admits it [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► and it wasn't his fault he finally kind [TS]

00:59:03 ◼   ► of says you know [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► ok wasn't my fault it wasn't anything I [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► could do I was raped and then you cut [TS]

00:59:10 ◼   ► there's that there's a pivotal moment [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► for him and he suddenly just starts [TS]

00:59:14 ◼   ► talking about what happens and reveals [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► all these details and that's the last 60 [TS]

00:59:18 ◼   ► pages of the book now I don't know if [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► that's a good reason but that if i had [TS]

00:59:21 ◼   ► to write a paper explain the structure [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► of the book that sure what I would write [TS]

00:59:24 ◼   ► about [TS]

00:59:25 ◼   ► yes i think is not that bad headcanon [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► Scott but yeah there's a lot of great [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► stuff in that that village i [TS]

00:59:33 ◼   ► particularly like where they start [TS]

00:59:34 ◼   ► farming because they need to to you know [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► grow their own food and the arena [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► obviously pay attention although you [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► know that this point we don't think that [TS]

00:59:42 ◼   ► the ruins are all that right but it just [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► turns out that they are they are as [TS]

00:59:46 ◼   ► bright as the regular people they just [TS]

00:59:48 ◼   ► have you know that they're aliens so [TS]

00:59:50 ◼   ► they do things differently and then they [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► notice that the farming and so they're [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► like gee why do we keep trudging so far [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► away to get our food when we can grow [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► some food here [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► some food here [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► and they start doing it and then of [TS]

01:00:01 ◼   ► course that least horrible things i [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► should point out horrible beatings and [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► civil war and what they have done is [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► also this incredible to put in Star Trek [TS]

01:00:10 ◼   ► terms violation of the prime directive [TS]

01:00:12 ◼   ► where the presence it turns out all as [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► careful as they sort of were being they [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► ruin this society because they the the [TS]

01:00:21 ◼   ► room and begin to plant gardens and then [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► they have an overpopulation and that [TS]

01:00:25 ◼   ► means the general artist and out squads [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► to kill them and there's a moment where [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► one of the human says there are more of [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► of of us than there are of you and [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► that's like oh no because the entire [TS]

01:00:37 ◼   ► power power structure is based on the [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► fact that these predators I have to have [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► put the fear in the prey [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► yeah and and the room to start chanting [TS]

01:00:46 ◼   ► that writes when the gentleman's this [TS]

01:00:48 ◼   ► squad is there and the gentle kind of [TS]

01:00:51 ◼   ► freaked out it just said ok we're going [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► to kill you all [TS]

01:00:53 ◼   ► there's the first massacre yeah yeah [TS]

01:00:56 ◼   ► starts the Civil which its powerful [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► right because it is that moment of like [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► this is actually being held in balance [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► by this consensual hallucination that [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► the predators and prey who have evolved [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► together in the society has evolved [TS]

01:01:09 ◼   ► together are in these roles and these [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► people from another planet come in and [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► say hey you realize there's way more of [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► you than them you could take them and [TS]

01:01:18 ◼   ► it's like home [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► well yeah okay that's it forget it like [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► they totally screw up this society and I [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► really appreciated that there could have [TS]

01:01:27 ◼   ► been more of that too I feel like if she [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► had taken those last two chapters and [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► just let them go at the pace of the rest [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► of the book it would have been a perfect [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► book for my taste but instead it's sort [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► of like somebody was given to the [TS]

01:01:42 ◼   ► wrap-up sign maybe her agent maybe her [TS]

01:01:44 ◼   ► publisher was like you need to turn in [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► the manuscript right and I don't know [TS]

01:01:49 ◼   ► it's it's it's dramatic but I love a lot [TS]

01:01:52 ◼   ► about this book i was happy to read it [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► the characters are indelible the the the [TS]