Roderick on the Line

Ep. 89: "Transparity"


00:00:00   hello John [TS]

00:00:07   hi Merlin how's it going good huh [TS]

00:00:12   get all your stuff done got winded [TS]

00:00:17   yeah I know gets it gets harder [TS]

00:00:20   oh he's all over town today yeah tell me [TS]

00:00:23   about what you do always rolling all [TS]

00:00:24   over i had meetings that had a lunch [TS]

00:00:28   meeting I had another meeting you took a [TS]

00:00:31   lunch meeting i did at lunch but took a [TS]

00:00:33   lunch meeting i did a TV interview I was [TS]

00:00:35   over here I was over there son as we [TS]

00:00:39   record this it is a it is very this is I [TS]

00:00:41   believe our last episode before the [TS]

00:00:45   election but cannot be right now I think [TS]

00:00:48   there's one more isn't next monday still [TS]

00:00:50   before the election is it you should [TS]

00:00:53   know that that's why you're way you [TS]

00:00:58   electioneering today my way here [TS]

00:01:01   oh yeah yeah a yeah yeah next next [TS]

00:01:04   monday is we're still still on them on [TS]

00:01:08   the right side just on the off-chance [TS]

00:01:10   you to decide on what if you decide to [TS]

00:01:13   run for City Council i would go ahead [TS]

00:01:14   and put that on the calendar just so you [TS]

00:01:15   don't [TS]

00:01:16   yeah well I feel like it might run for [TS]

00:01:18   political office would have to be next [TS]

00:01:20   election but I mean certainly any any [TS]

00:01:22   listeners are welcome to write me in and [TS]

00:01:24   maybe maybe we'll find out how [TS]

00:01:26   far-reaching are our podcast cones two [TS]

00:01:29   years goes by so we've done this show [TS]

00:01:31   for like two years now [TS]

00:01:32   that's right that's right if we had [TS]

00:01:34   started two years ago maybe I'd be I'd [TS]

00:01:36   be rounding out my campaign right now [TS]

00:01:38   yeah I had a political meeting today one [TS]

00:01:40   of my meetings was political [TS]

00:01:42   I i would love to hear about I i will [TS]

00:01:46   tell you privately i'll cut all this out [TS]

00:01:48   I worry privately that when you are [TS]

00:01:51   you're you're moving amongst certain [TS]

00:01:53   corridors of power right now and I worry [TS]

00:01:54   a little bit that you're saying too much [TS]

00:01:55   are you okay with everything you're [TS]

00:01:57   saying well this is the thing I i have [TS]

00:01:59   increasingly been i've been having a lot [TS]

00:02:01   of discussions with people and they keep [TS]

00:02:03   saying like well I mean you know you're [TS]

00:02:07   certainly a certainly in the running for [TS]

00:02:09   this or that sort of if not elected [TS]

00:02:12   job then like politically appointed job [TS]

00:02:15   you could I could be higher right now in [TS]

00:02:17   other words in a in a job in a political [TS]

00:02:22   job eat you could be the recipient of [TS]

00:02:25   some political largesse some largest [TS]

00:02:28   that's right i could I could be a member [TS]

00:02:30   i could get some patronage some [TS]

00:02:32   political patronage sweet but it but in [TS]

00:02:35   increasingly it has forced me just like [TS]

00:02:37   all this involvement in politics the [TS]

00:02:38   last year has forced me to clarify my [TS]

00:02:41   feelings and this is the strange thing [TS]

00:02:43   because you know you want it [TS]

00:02:45   we always say to one another like we'll [TS]

00:02:47   just decide what you want to do it like [TS]

00:02:49   why don't you just tell me what you want [TS]

00:02:51   that is a very common thing that we say [TS]

00:02:53   and we and we direct that energy at that [TS]

00:02:55   kids and teenagers to like what do you [TS]

00:02:57   want to do with your life [TS]

00:02:59   just just pick the thing you want to do [TS]

00:03:01   it and and the actual fact is that a [TS]

00:03:04   very small number of us know what the [TS]

00:03:06   fuck we want and the I think the vast [TS]

00:03:09   majority of us have no idea what we like [TS]

00:03:12   even let alone we barely barely know [TS]

00:03:15   what we think we want exactly and the [TS]

00:03:18   whole really like we have like a 8 a 5 [TS]

00:03:20   10 or perhaps thirty-five-year-old idea [TS]

00:03:23   of what we wanted to and that we dare [TS]

00:03:25   not actually financially update that [TS]

00:03:28   were terrified to update to even open [TS]

00:03:30   the closet door and look at our idea of [TS]

00:03:33   what we think we want and that's the [TS]

00:03:35   real you know the more I think about it [TS]

00:03:36   that's the reason that there are [TS]

00:03:38   newspapers and websites I mean all these [TS]

00:03:41   people telling us what we want our but [TS]

00:03:45   the reason we go to those things is that [TS]

00:03:47   we're trying to finally read something [TS]

00:03:50   that explains to us what we want and [TS]

00:03:52   then I realize all those people writing [TS]

00:03:55   about writing like these articles about [TS]

00:03:58   what it is we should want or what is [TS]

00:04:00   that that they think we should want they [TS]

00:04:03   don't know what they want either they're [TS]

00:04:05   just churning out this you know like [TS]

00:04:07   here's the new thing here's the thing [TS]

00:04:08   like is this what you want is this what [TS]

00:04:10   you want and it's all people just trying [TS]

00:04:12   to decide for themselves what they want [TS]

00:04:14   nobody has the first idea so i'm looking [TS]

00:04:18   at all of these I so as I got as i [TS]

00:04:21   waited into politics and I was [TS]

00:04:23   confronted with these questions like [TS]

00:04:25   well our are you going to go with the [TS]

00:04:28   guy that you said you were gonna go with [TS]

00:04:29   who is going to lose or are you gonna [TS]

00:04:31   step into the winner's circle and go [TS]

00:04:33   with the guy that you don't know that's [TS]

00:04:35   gonna win and I was like what do i want [TS]

00:04:38   i feel now I feel bad I felt good a week [TS]

00:04:41   ago when when everybody who seem to want [TS]

00:04:44   me [TS]

00:04:45   but now that i have to make a choice now [TS]

00:04:47   I feel bad again and as as these options [TS]

00:04:51   keep piling up and his people are like [TS]

00:04:53   well you know mr. man that you know the [TS]

00:04:55   mystery guy in charge was talking about [TS]

00:04:57   you the other day and he's thinking that [TS]

00:04:58   you might have an appetizer I'm [TS]

00:05:02   realizing that whatever it is I have [TS]

00:05:05   spent my life building it is a thing [TS]

00:05:09   that I have built precisely so that I [TS]

00:05:12   would never sell it to somebody for [TS]

00:05:15   security or power even power right like [TS]

00:05:20   i do not want to take a job I don't care [TS]

00:05:23   what job is I don't want someone to give [TS]

00:05:27   me a job if I wanted someone to give me [TS]

00:05:29   a job I could have spent the last 20 [TS]

00:05:32   years training myself to be given a job [TS]

00:05:35   and instead i have spent that 20 years [TS]

00:05:39   training myself to never ever ever work [TS]

00:05:42   for somebody or be given anything and as [TS]

00:05:48   I as I'm sort of cuddling up to these [TS]

00:05:50   people and they're cuddling up to me the [TS]

00:05:52   reason that they're cuddling up to me is [TS]

00:05:54   that I clearly like I have something [TS]

00:05:56   interesting that they want [TS]

00:05:58   a piece up and i don't know i don't [TS]

00:06:01   think it is so much that i have a [TS]

00:06:04   constituency because that's unclear to [TS]

00:06:07   everybody what that is I mean the first [TS]

00:06:08   thing they want to know it's like how [TS]

00:06:10   many how many people do you have that [TS]

00:06:14   would follow you into the breach and I'm [TS]

00:06:17   like anywhere between for me [TS]

00:06:20   they put a look and I want to see the [TS]

00:06:21   camp the night before haha i think is [TS]

00:06:26   pretty cool what are you holding up your [TS]

00:06:31   finger is a fake mustache but i think [TS]

00:06:35   this battle is gonna go pretty great [TS]

00:06:36   don't you don't you guys hear the odds [TS]

00:06:38   are on our side for engine court but but [TS]

00:06:41   but but but a rather what they want is [TS]

00:06:47   you know I i think what interests these [TS]

00:06:50   politicians is is exactly the thing that [TS]

00:06:53   I have been that I've been working on [TS]

00:06:55   which is a all that I have a voice and [TS]

00:07:00   the second i took a job would be the [TS]

00:07:04   beginning of a process of trying to [TS]

00:07:07   quiet and tame my voice and if if [TS]

00:07:13   somebody in in politics wants to give me [TS]

00:07:16   a job as their community outreach [TS]

00:07:18   liaison or their rock and roll a you [TS]

00:07:21   know a rock-and-roll United Nations [TS]

00:07:23   representative or whatever it is [TS]

00:07:25   immediately there would be somebody said [TS]

00:07:28   well listen i gotta tone down the [TS]

00:07:32   supertrain talk because it's kind of [TS]

00:07:35   scaring some of our some of the people [TS]

00:07:38   that are you know that are really voting [TS]

00:07:41   against the zipline project and and and [TS]

00:07:47   thus would begin the death of me [TS]

00:07:50   yeah and so I don't know exactly what to [TS]

00:07:53   do I mean I i I'm honest with myself [TS]

00:07:57   that I that I like this attention i like [TS]

00:07:59   being taken out [TS]

00:08:00   I like the I was driven around today in [TS]

00:08:02   a car that was piloted by an undercover [TS]

00:08:06   detective [TS]

00:08:07   Wow and I was like this is cool like the [TS]

00:08:11   driver of this vehicle is carrying a gun [TS]

00:08:13   that their license to use if somebody [TS]

00:08:16   steps in front of this car we could like [TS]

00:08:18   turn the sirens all I could also because [TS]

00:08:21   maybe he and John steps out of line they [TS]

00:08:23   need somebody with some stopping power [TS]

00:08:25   yeah I don't think that you know that [TS]

00:08:27   they'll and starts friendly enough [TS]

00:08:29   it's nice to get on the writer and you [TS]

00:08:31   know and they everybody knows that i [TS]

00:08:33   carry a piece of piano wire in my jacket [TS]

00:08:35   they're not gonna let me sit behind them [TS]

00:08:37   driver knowing that I could pull up you [TS]

00:08:41   know [TS]

00:08:42   hello Carlo how how are you Carlo and [TS]

00:08:46   that John and his heir sets garage so so [TS]

00:08:53   so I don't I honestly don't know I don't [TS]

00:08:56   know how vulnerable i am to being [TS]

00:08:58   co-opted because when I actually think [TS]

00:09:00   about what i want you know and this was [TS]

00:09:02   my mom's council I told you this right [TS]

00:09:04   that she said you would hate running for [TS]

00:09:06   office and you would hate being elected [TS]

00:09:08   and because she walked my dad through [TS]

00:09:12   half a dozen campaigns and was in [TS]

00:09:13   politics all through the fifties and [TS]

00:09:16   sixties and I was like come on who you [TS]

00:09:19   know like I'm I bring something to the [TS]

00:09:21   table and she was like bullshit you [TS]

00:09:24   would get you know you hate powerpoint [TS]

00:09:26   demonstrations and you think you're [TS]

00:09:27   going to get up you're going to sit on [TS]

00:09:29   the City Council do you know that it [TS]

00:09:32   would be eight hours of PowerPoint [TS]

00:09:34   demonstrations every day of your life [TS]

00:09:36   I was like well but I mean I'd be the [TS]

00:09:39   reform candidate she's like you don't [TS]

00:09:42   you're here just so far up a tree [TS]

00:09:47   you don't even know and she said you [TS]

00:09:48   know yeah sure you're the reform [TS]

00:09:50   candidate you get in there and you start [TS]

00:09:52   thinking that you're reforming things [TS]

00:09:53   and all you're doing is pissing off all [TS]

00:09:55   the people who spent hours making this [TS]

00:09:57   PowerPoint demonstration like you're the [TS]

00:09:59   you're the one that put his feet up on [TS]

00:10:02   the desk and mimes that your snoring who [TS]

00:10:05   is going to be impressed by that like [TS]

00:10:08   everybody's gonna be mad because this is [TS]

00:10:10   the this is industry [TS]

00:10:11   nobody's making a diagram to figure out [TS]

00:10:13   how to get more of that guy [TS]

00:10:14   no no nobody wants it that you don't [TS]

00:10:16   need it anymore idea men in here [TS]

00:10:18   everybody once it when the idea man is [TS]

00:10:22   out of the picture you know like if you [TS]

00:10:25   are if you are outside the corral and [TS]

00:10:28   you're out there throwing pomegranates [TS]

00:10:30   over the fence every once in a while [TS]

00:10:33   someone is like know that guy he's [TS]

00:10:34   hilarious where you know let's bring him [TS]

00:10:36   in for a second and see what he has to [TS]

00:10:37   say but but you don't you don't bring [TS]

00:10:39   your bushel of pomegranates into the [TS]

00:10:41   corral [TS]

00:10:42   I mean that's i'm sorry i'm quoting [TS]

00:10:44   somebody there but I got a I got a [TS]

00:10:49   strong feeling on this [TS]

00:10:51   yeah and it's I i have to essentially [TS]

00:10:56   this is kind of right in your wheelhouse [TS]

00:10:58   of loss really in my wheelhouse we talk [TS]

00:11:01   about the work stuff i mean i realize [TS]

00:11:03   like how much i don't i don't like [TS]

00:11:06   working for other people not gonna put [TS]

00:11:09   this here's a big pattern a big pattern [TS]

00:11:11   is that when somebody gives you what [TS]

00:11:13   appears to be power or gives you what [TS]

00:11:14   appears to be largesse or you know [TS]

00:11:17   anything that feels better than what [TS]

00:11:19   you've got there figuring out the least [TS]

00:11:21   amount of effort including money [TS]

00:11:23   including power including you know [TS]

00:11:25   square footage the least amount of [TS]

00:11:27   anything possible to keep you [TS]

00:11:28   neutralized and then we'll be gender [TS]

00:11:31   normative but I mean that in the true [TS]

00:11:32   sense of the word they want to they want [TS]

00:11:34   to figure out how to something you can [TS]

00:11:37   still be valuable but think about it [TS]

00:11:38   like a chessboard [TS]

00:11:40   I mean you know or think about in terms [TS]

00:11:41   of like companies and the kinds of [TS]

00:11:42   acquisitions that they do a lot of times [TS]

00:11:44   they'll require a company just so nobody [TS]

00:11:46   else can just Angela vol the party [TS]

00:11:49   exactly exactly [TS]

00:11:50   so I see this is relationships to it's [TS]

00:11:52   always a good question of like you [TS]

00:11:55   cannot cede power to someone else [TS]

00:11:58   yea even within even in a couple's [TS]

00:12:00   relationship you cannot say like I [TS]

00:12:02   hereby give you the power to have me be [TS]

00:12:07   in love with you like you you know what [TS]

00:12:10   I mean you eat you can get any power [TS]

00:12:12   that you seed to somebody else that you [TS]

00:12:14   retain well nobody gives anybody enough [TS]

00:12:17   power that they could choose to unseat [TS]

00:12:19   them right [TS]

00:12:20   that's one way to look at it so you know [TS]

00:12:22   I'm trying to sound cynical about this [TS]

00:12:25   but it's one reason i have not looked [TS]

00:12:27   forward to going and having a job with [TS]

00:12:28   somebody because the job is a way of [TS]

00:12:30   saying like here's somebody who has [TS]

00:12:32   certain amount of value to me and I need [TS]

00:12:34   to give them just enough of something or [TS]

00:12:36   some things to make it make them need me [TS]

00:12:39   in some ways and so they want to say [TS]

00:12:42   neutralize I I you know I you know you [TS]

00:12:45   you don't want to give you know so i [TS]

00:12:50   don't know i can't speak to politics but [TS]

00:12:51   just in terms of jobs i mean people will [TS]

00:12:53   sell you just these big dreams about how [TS]

00:12:56   great this thing is going to be and [TS]

00:12:58   they're all into you for this five [TS]

00:13:00   minutes or whatever you know and they [TS]

00:13:02   bring you in and they give you just [TS]

00:13:03   enough that now so let's say they give [TS]

00:13:06   you a job with you know let's say [TS]

00:13:08   somebody gives you a job and offers you [TS]

00:13:09   $500,000 here or something thats that's [TS]

00:13:12   most of us would look at and go wow [TS]

00:13:13   that's really a lot of money sold I'll [TS]

00:13:15   take it [TS]

00:13:15   yeah exactly but now you need that job [TS]

00:13:18   ok you're going to start spending on [TS]

00:13:19   stuff like we said before you can start [TS]

00:13:21   spending on $500,000 year basis pretty [TS]

00:13:23   quickly [TS]

00:13:24   you're gonna need that job and you know [TS]

00:13:26   just to get back to whether the [TS]

00:13:27   godfather of the wire whatever flavor [TS]

00:13:29   this is at some point you know it's [TS]

00:13:31   going to be the day of your daughter's [TS]

00:13:32   wedding and somebody's going to come to [TS]

00:13:34   you and they're going to want something [TS]

00:13:35   from you and you're not going to be in a [TS]

00:13:38   position to say when you hired me [TS]

00:13:39   because I'm an idea man and a [TS]

00:13:40   troublemaker and I make fun of [TS]

00:13:42   PowerPoint well that's not what they [TS]

00:13:43   brought you in for [TS]

00:13:44   that's it i'm not saying this is you but [TS]

00:13:46   that's I suspected to similar impulse [TS]

00:13:48   that we share where whenever somebody [TS]

00:13:51   starts talking to big with me i know [TS]

00:13:54   it's bullshit [TS]

00:13:55   yeah you know I really admire people who [TS]

00:13:56   say like hey here's this much money to [TS]

00:13:58   do this thing that's worth that's really [TS]

00:14:00   cool or you know I want you to interview [TS]

00:14:03   me for your website because it'll help [TS]

00:14:04   sell copies of my book [TS]

00:14:05   oh my god i love you i love your the [TS]

00:14:08   honesty of your cynicism instead of [TS]

00:14:10   going hey man I love you [TS]

00:14:13   well what's interesting about what you [TS]

00:14:14   really want you want this thing that [TS]

00:14:16   I've got and we find what amounts to a [TS]

00:14:18   proper price for it and then we both [TS]

00:14:21   move on but I mean the thing is when [TS]

00:14:23   you're in politics it seems to me that a [TS]

00:14:24   lot of is about neutralizing people or [TS]

00:14:27   introducing a fear that they would never [TS]

00:14:29   think of going to the other guy for [TS]

00:14:30   example well what what what is appealing [TS]

00:14:33   about [TS]

00:14:33   is that is that in politics you are you [TS]

00:14:37   are offered like the non cynical side of [TS]

00:14:40   it is that you are offered the [TS]

00:14:41   opportunity to help in a way that is [TS]

00:14:45   substantive like all the stuff that we [TS]

00:14:49   sit around arguing with all the time [TS]

00:14:51   like how do we deal with the homeless [TS]

00:14:53   problem the homeless problem is a [TS]

00:14:56   problem and we can we have the we have [TS]

00:15:00   the benefit of historical you know the [TS]

00:15:02   retrospective insight to say like wow [TS]

00:15:05   that whole decision to close the asylums [TS]

00:15:07   in 1970 who was ultimately like not a [TS]

00:15:12   not very well thought out like maybe the [TS]

00:15:14   Cylons were ripe with the abuse maybe [TS]

00:15:16   they were terrible environments but we [TS]

00:15:18   didn't really think what would happen to [TS]

00:15:19   those people and the rest of us are in a [TS]

00:15:25   position of what writing angry letters [TS]

00:15:27   to the editor or getting or maybe like [TS]

00:15:30   going to public meetings and inch and [TS]

00:15:32   banging our shoe on the table but the [TS]

00:15:35   reality is that the homeless problem in [TS]

00:15:37   san francisco in seattle like massively [TS]

00:15:39   affect the quality of life in the city [TS]

00:15:41   it's a massive undertaking to solve it [TS]

00:15:44   but some of these people bet that are [TS]

00:15:47   offering me like another there has been [TS]

00:15:51   no offer but like cultivating me [TS]

00:15:53   grooming you grooming me they are [TS]

00:15:57   actually in a position and not just in a [TS]

00:15:59   position from the standpoint of like I [TS]

00:16:01   am in the position of power but they are [TS]

00:16:03   interested in a solution to the homeless [TS]

00:16:06   problem they are interested in it for [TS]

00:16:08   the right reasons and they have worked [TS]

00:16:12   their lives to put themselves into a [TS]

00:16:13   position where they actually have a shot [TS]

00:16:15   at trying something new and and the same [TS]

00:16:18   is true of the schools and the same is [TS]

00:16:21   true of the of the public transit you [TS]

00:16:24   know they are not they are not in [TS]

00:16:26   politics exclusively for cynical reasons [TS]

00:16:30   they are they actually are interested in [TS]

00:16:32   these things as i am interested in [TS]

00:16:34   making a huge difference as i am and [TS]

00:16:36   they actually are in a position to do it [TS]

00:16:39   and they could the question for me is [TS]

00:16:41   like that mean [TS]

00:16:41   oh at lunch today I spent [TS]

00:16:44   an hour-and-a-half talking to a guy [TS]

00:16:46   about sewers power grids a water like [TS]

00:16:52   water transit homelessness and we're [TS]

00:16:57   have were carrying on a casual friendly [TS]

00:16:58   conversation and yet he is ultimately [TS]

00:17:01   like the person who is in charge of it [TS]

00:17:05   and I'm like wow [TS]

00:17:08   uh this is extraordinary both in terms [TS]

00:17:12   of access but also in truth in terms of [TS]

00:17:14   opportunity because he knows he's super [TS]

00:17:19   smart guy and knows that the [TS]

00:17:20   homelessness problem is not intractable [TS]

00:17:23   it does have there are solutions and you [TS]

00:17:27   have to just get it you have to get the [TS]

00:17:29   ball down the field through that I'm [TS]

00:17:31   starting to talk like a total asshole [TS]

00:17:33   have to get down the field and through [TS]

00:17:35   the goalposts amazing question from [TS]

00:17:37   their market if you have a test match up [TS]

00:17:40   tonight I know the rules are rolling [TS]

00:17:43   star homelessness is like a cricket [TS]

00:17:45   match homelessness is more of a scrum [TS]

00:17:47   but you throw one guy up in the air and [TS]

00:17:50   a rubber buttons you have to run [TS]

00:17:53   backwards holding a ball that is not [TS]

00:17:56   shaped like a ball so some fresh ideas [TS]

00:18:00   so the appeal of it that is just [TS]

00:18:03   tremendous appeal that it that that like [TS]

00:18:05   when I think cynically I call power but [TS]

00:18:10   the reality is that it that that it that [TS]

00:18:13   these that the the people who are best [TS]

00:18:15   at this job have an idealism and our [TS]

00:18:19   idea people ultimately but they're also [TS]

00:18:22   good at sitting in a meeting and looking [TS]

00:18:24   I'm not looking bored and the ones that [TS]

00:18:27   are brilliant at it are good at getting [TS]

00:18:29   20 people to agree about something and [TS]

00:18:31   then they share the credit in such a way [TS]

00:18:34   that nobody remembers whose idea was [TS]

00:18:36   everybody feels like it was their idea [TS]

00:18:39   kinda and-and-and where IM recognizing [TS]

00:18:42   in myself that my deficits are that i'm [TS]

00:18:46   not good at that and i get twenty-five [TS]

00:18:49   people to agree on something [TS]

00:18:51   oh I'll be goddamned that they don't all [TS]

00:18:53   feel the the that I chapter their ass or [TS]

00:18:56   that there [TS]

00:18:57   you know that they their eyebrows are [TS]

00:18:58   singed and so and the really gifted [TS]

00:19:02   people are you know they do it in this [TS]

00:19:04   jiu-jitsu we're just like i don't i [TS]

00:19:06   don't even remember that his hand on my [TS]

00:19:08   wallet but but now I'm like the kind of [TS]

00:19:11   being ushered out of the room honor on a [TS]

00:19:13   floating carpet once and it's like [TS]

00:19:16   you're dancing around this but I'm not [TS]

00:19:18   trying to say that politics is a con [TS]

00:19:20   but-but-but-but con a con in general [TS]

00:19:22   there are cons in every aspect of our [TS]

00:19:23   life to make something effective in my [TS]

00:19:25   house it helps a lot to make it seem [TS]

00:19:27   like it was my idea [TS]

00:19:28   oh that's dying you know the way that a [TS]

00:19:30   con works is it's a confidence game [TS]

00:19:32   that's what a con is if you ask maybe [TS]

00:19:35   something as a favor [TS]

00:19:36   they're much more likely to do it for [TS]

00:19:37   you because now they actually trust you [TS]

00:19:39   more [TS]

00:19:39   where the end if well and I think I [TS]

00:19:42   think we are we have come from an era [TS]

00:19:45   like politics and and government when we [TS]

00:19:50   were kids was still a business of being [TS]

00:19:54   in a in a room with a bunch of people [TS]

00:19:56   who were trying to match each other [TS]

00:20:00   highball glass to highball glass and [TS]

00:20:03   that that small group of men white men [TS]

00:20:07   all knew where one another's bodies were [TS]

00:20:10   buried and that was the trust that [TS]

00:20:13   enabled them to get business time [TS]

00:20:17   because it was like oh yeah the judge [TS]

00:20:19   you know the judge i happen to know that [TS]

00:20:22   the judge likes little boys and so the [TS]

00:20:26   judge knows i know and i'm going to try [TS]

00:20:28   and get his approval on this you know [TS]

00:20:31   this project we're going to tear down [TS]

00:20:32   the old folks home and build an oil well [TS]

00:20:35   and the judge is gonna sign off on it [TS]

00:20:37   and that's how business gets done in [TS]

00:20:39   America and that's how it was when we [TS]

00:20:41   were kids and there has been a long and [TS]

00:20:45   ugly transition but I don't think that's [TS]

00:20:50   how government gets done anymore [TS]

00:20:52   certainly local governments Seattle San [TS]

00:20:57   Francisco like all these cities that [TS]

00:20:59   have progressive mayor's who are [TS]

00:21:01   gradually incremental II kind of [TS]

00:21:03   changing the way business is done [TS]

00:21:05   it's it's very much less i mean i [TS]

00:21:09   remember going to vitos restaurant with [TS]

00:21:11   my dad and him walking down the bar and [TS]

00:21:14   he knew every guy in the place and it [TS]

00:21:17   was just like that's you know that's a [TS]

00:21:19   Superior Court judge that's a US [TS]

00:21:21   congressman that is a you know that's [TS]

00:21:23   the publisher of the newspaper and they [TS]

00:21:25   were all there and they were all [TS]

00:21:27   drinking together and that doesn't exist [TS]

00:21:28   anymore right [TS]

00:21:30   and in place of that there's a lot more [TS]

00:21:35   transparent e-everybody everybody is [TS]

00:21:38   just a transparency and ever that down [TS]

00:21:41   let's get there's a lot more transparent [TS]

00:21:44   but there's also that I mean like [TS]

00:21:48   there's also a lot there are a lot fewer [TS]

00:21:50   cigarettes there are a lot there's a lot [TS]

00:21:52   less chronic alcoholism and a lot more [TS]

00:21:55   accountability i guess and i believe I'm [TS]

00:21:58   starting i'm actually starting to think [TS]

00:22:00   that progressive politics are making are [TS]

00:22:04   actually capable of making things it's a [TS]

00:22:08   hopeful position i just wonder i just [TS]

00:22:13   wonder if i have the metal for it you [TS]

00:22:17   definitely have the metal for a certain [TS]

00:22:19   kind of place in that I mean it would be [TS]

00:22:21   really nice it would be really over [TS]

00:22:23   simplified to say that that means you [TS]

00:22:25   should be an elected official you eat [TS]

00:22:27   you know there are things that you could [TS]

00:22:29   do working with elected officials where [TS]

00:22:31   you could do something really amazing [TS]

00:22:33   that really taps into the stuff that [TS]

00:22:37   you're really great at what I i like [TS]

00:22:39   your point about their there's all kinds [TS]

00:22:41   of things that we just that the other [TS]

00:22:43   one that i always think about we talked [TS]

00:22:44   about this before but like think about [TS]

00:22:46   all the guys in that room to all the [TS]

00:22:47   congressmen and the newspaper publisher [TS]

00:22:50   like there's a pretty good chance they [TS]

00:22:52   were all in the Army at some point to [TS]

00:22:53   you [TS]

00:22:54   that's right that's absolutely right now [TS]

00:22:57   it's not in world war two Korea or [TS]

00:22:59   Vietnam at least they were probably in [TS]

00:23:02   the service i'll bet you a majority of [TS]

00:23:04   the people in that notional bar or [TS]

00:23:06   meeting or whatever had all been in the [TS]

00:23:09   service at one point or another which [TS]

00:23:10   sounds might sound silly to to you know [TS]

00:23:13   generation facebook but I used to be [TS]

00:23:15   really meaningful there's a lot of [TS]

00:23:17   common ground and having [TS]

00:23:18   on through that together and get his [TS]

00:23:20   wards and that kind of stuff [TS]

00:23:21   it's incredibly true and I mean I can't [TS]

00:23:24   tell you how many times i have sat at a [TS]

00:23:25   table with those guys while they talked [TS]

00:23:28   about the war without talking about the [TS]

00:23:30   war they you know they would sit there [TS]

00:23:34   and argue and bicker and it would be an [TS]

00:23:39   and I'd be sitting kind of listening and [TS]

00:23:41   rolling my eyes and then I would realize [TS]

00:23:43   they were talking about the war and I [TS]

00:23:46   hadn't and I didn't get it you know [TS]

00:23:48   because they were non demonstrative and [TS]

00:23:50   they weren't actually talking about the [TS]

00:23:53   war but that is that was the subtext and [TS]

00:23:55   the and the and the glue the glue that [TS]

00:24:00   bound them to one another but it [TS]

00:24:02   separated them from their wives and [TS]

00:24:04   separated them from everybody else you [TS]

00:24:09   know it was it was it is it is the [TS]

00:24:12   exclusive club that we as a culture have [TS]

00:24:15   spent 40 years trying to dismantle and [TS]

00:24:19   like like emptying the the asylums we [TS]

00:24:24   have dismantled it more or less [TS]

00:24:26   there are still the dick cheney's and [TS]

00:24:28   their world and surely they're all kinds [TS]

00:24:31   of places in America that are absolutely [TS]

00:24:33   still run by the sons of those guys in [TS]

00:24:37   the same method but looking at Seattle [TS]

00:24:40   you cannot say any more that just [TS]

00:24:43   because you are a Nordstrom or even a [TS]

00:24:48   paul allen that you necessarily have [TS]

00:24:50   carte blanche because because as a as a [TS]

00:24:55   culture we have spent 40 years putting [TS]

00:24:56   in place all these boards and all these [TS]

00:25:01   referenda and there's you know there is [TS]

00:25:05   nothing that escapes the attention of of [TS]

00:25:10   the of the larger people you know and [TS]

00:25:15   and and for good and out there there was [TS]

00:25:17   an interesting article about the local [TS]

00:25:19   schools here and end this the the school [TS]

00:25:23   that was the lowest crappiest least [TS]

00:25:26   performing elementary school [TS]

00:25:28   has just had an incredible bump in their [TS]

00:25:31   test scores in the last year because [TS]

00:25:34   they put put in place this renegade [TS]

00:25:36   principal renegade lady principal who [TS]

00:25:41   brought with her the novel idea that you [TS]

00:25:44   should take the underperforming math [TS]

00:25:47   students and put them in a different [TS]

00:25:51   group i'm the same classroom but just [TS]

00:25:53   put them together in a group and put the [TS]

00:25:58   high-performing math students together [TS]

00:26:00   in a different group and that that very [TS]

00:26:05   radical that notion is in is actually [TS]

00:26:09   incredibly radical because because at [TS]

00:26:12   education policy over the last 20 plus [TS]

00:26:16   years has been that that dividing of [TS]

00:26:19   students like does not help the the bad [TS]

00:26:27   students or the underperforming students [TS]

00:26:30   it just excludes them and generally is [TS]

00:26:35   you know ultimately you can make [TS]

00:26:37   correlations between that and and [TS]

00:26:39   economics and it turns out those are all [TS]

00:26:41   the poor students and the teachers just [TS]

00:26:43   teaching to the smart students and the [TS]

00:26:44   poor students just end up getting [TS]

00:26:47   flushed out but also must depend a lot [TS]

00:26:50   on the the somewhat obvious thing that [TS]

00:26:53   gets left out which is that well and I [TS]

00:26:55   think that phrase from the simpsons uh [TS]

00:26:57   you know know you're in the brown [TS]

00:26:58   reading group that you moved in the [TS]

00:27:00   brown reading group i think that the [TS]

00:27:02   kind of the Greystone over the years has [TS]

00:27:04   been that and you're going to get the [TS]

00:27:06   not very good teacher and the not very [TS]

00:27:08   good textbooks and a leaky classroom it [TS]

00:27:11   would be nothing to say we're going to [TS]

00:27:12   take the kids that aren't doing that [TS]

00:27:13   create math we're going to put them in [TS]

00:27:15   and put them in here with our best [TS]

00:27:16   teacher and they're going to get twenty [TS]

00:27:17   percent more resources than the best [TS]

00:27:19   group and I think that's what this [TS]

00:27:20   principle is doing a but she's really [TS]

00:27:23   bucking the bucking the trend and there [TS]

00:27:26   are a lot of people who are kind of [TS]

00:27:28   rattling the bars saying separating [TS]

00:27:31   students out [TS]

00:27:33   is it is you know maybe in a specific [TS]

00:27:37   instance is fine but in the general in [TS]

00:27:39   general it is a it is non progressive [TS]

00:27:42   education policy and one of the [TS]

00:27:45   interesting things that they quoted this [TS]

00:27:47   article is that there was this kid who [TS]

00:27:51   quite naturally when you think about it [TS]

00:27:54   thought that one-sixth was more than [TS]

00:27:58   one-fifth like that makes sense right if [TS]

00:28:02   you have noticed is if no one has [TS]

00:28:04   explained to you the concept very well [TS]

00:28:06   you would naturally think 16 was more [TS]

00:28:08   than 150 and then just as much as like [TS]

00:28:10   point nine sounds like more than one [TS]

00:28:11   right [TS]

00:28:13   if you don't get it and so this kid and [TS]

00:28:17   obviously he also was probably shy or [TS]

00:28:20   english as a second language or whatever [TS]

00:28:22   so he doesn't ask he doesn't raise his [TS]

00:28:24   hand and ask the question he doesn't [TS]

00:28:25   want to feel done so he's sitting in the [TS]

00:28:28   class trying to digest all these [TS]

00:28:30   concepts based on not understanding the [TS]

00:28:34   fundament of it and across the room [TS]

00:28:36   you've got a kid like me who wanted the [TS]

00:28:41   teacher to just shut up please and let [TS]

00:28:43   me have the book and if you you know if [TS]

00:28:44   they had on the first day of fifth grade [TS]

00:28:46   said if you get through this book as [TS]

00:28:48   fast as you can then we'll give you a [TS]

00:28:51   harder book to get through on your own [TS]

00:28:54   as fast as you can and I would've just [TS]

00:28:56   been like thank you God and would have [TS]

00:28:59   tore through that 5th grade math book in [TS]

00:29:01   a in a month you know and why you [TS]

00:29:04   wouldn't why you wouldn't be able to [TS]

00:29:06   what why education policy would would [TS]

00:29:09   try to mandate that those two students [TS]

00:29:11   be taught at the same speed that is [TS]

00:29:14   that's the dark underbelly of not to get [TS]

00:29:19   ping pong of of progressivism you know [TS]

00:29:23   the the the the force equalization and [TS]

00:29:28   anyway [TS]

00:29:29   trying to reform those things those [TS]

00:29:33   well-intentioned policies are like [TS]

00:29:36   trying to solve the homeless problem by [TS]

00:29:38   busing everybody around the town you [TS]

00:29:42   know or giving them vouchers are trying [TS]

00:29:44   to treat them in emergency rooms rather [TS]

00:29:46   than [TS]

00:29:46   just have some low-income housing built [TS]

00:29:49   but i also i mean as long as i am [TS]

00:29:51   assuming I mantle of guy who clearly [TS]

00:29:53   understands what caused it but doesn't [TS]

00:29:55   know how to fix it [TS]

00:29:56   it's very it's very I think it's very [TS]

00:29:58   common or not unusual in America for [TS]

00:30:01   people to feel that because we can [TS]

00:30:04   clearly see the antecedents for why [TS]

00:30:06   something gotta certain way then we must [TS]

00:30:08   just as clearly understand how to solve [TS]

00:30:10   it and the example of Ronald Reagan you [TS]

00:30:13   know the way I understand it sounds like [TS]

00:30:15   the way you've heard it which is we [TS]

00:30:16   decided hey you know how about we just [TS]

00:30:18   start how about we just start cleaning [TS]

00:30:20   out all the asylums and we take all [TS]

00:30:22   these people who have been sitting [TS]

00:30:23   around you know getting free lithium [TS]

00:30:25   four years let's put them on the street [TS]

00:30:27   and just see how that goes [TS]

00:30:28   and now you got somethin somethin san [TS]

00:30:31   francisco for example but boy you talk [TS]

00:30:35   about a hard problem to solve my god [TS]

00:30:38   homelessness and meet anybody who comes [TS]

00:30:40   here from you know from Missouri and [TS]

00:30:42   goes Wow San Francisco really doesn't [TS]

00:30:45   care about homeless people look at all [TS]

00:30:46   these homeless people its Sun that is [TS]

00:30:49   such a complicated problem i would say [TS]

00:30:50   probably more complicated than the [TS]

00:30:52   education is like primary school [TS]

00:30:54   education stuff because there are so [TS]

00:30:55   many reasons that that problem has [TS]

00:30:57   gotten to where it is that might be a [TS]

00:30:59   forty-year-old problem from its main you [TS]

00:31:02   know antecedent but the what we can do [TS]

00:31:05   to change about that and why these [TS]

00:31:06   people are still there it's it is so [TS]

00:31:10   much more complicated than anybody can [TS]

00:31:11   even begin to imagine and it's hard to [TS]

00:31:14   even have that discussion with somebody [TS]

00:31:15   from out of town here because everybody [TS]

00:31:16   in town knows that it's not as simple as [TS]

00:31:18   saying if i give this person five [TS]

00:31:20   dollars they're gonna put that toward [TS]

00:31:21   the security deposit [TS]

00:31:22   yeah I heard the other day that there [TS]

00:31:24   was a big a big town hall meeting in San [TS]

00:31:27   Francisco where you have decided that [TS]

00:31:28   it's no longer okay to just be naked on [TS]

00:31:30   the street is that true [TS]

00:31:31   well it's a little bit more sugar and [TS]

00:31:36   and when he was determined that with [TS]

00:31:38   within certain i think what I well out [TS]

00:31:41   working longer be turgid on the street [TS]

00:31:44   you can no longer if you had a propecia [TS]

00:31:47   style accident gotta for our pre abscess [TS]

00:31:51   or whatever it's called and [TS]

00:31:54   ok so so can I ask you a historical [TS]

00:31:56   question sure [TS]

00:31:57   so your dad i remember i think i was in [TS]

00:32:01   your guest bathroom I was somewhere and [TS]

00:32:02   I saw your dad's old campaign ads mostly [TS]

00:32:05   running for back then it's a really cool [TS]

00:32:09   like it looks like something i would [TS]

00:32:10   have made in the mid-nineties with [TS]

00:32:11   clipart yeah it was a clipart a flyer [TS]

00:32:14   for his I think his first run for the [TS]

00:32:17   washington state legislature which would [TS]

00:32:19   have happened in 1948 he was still in [TS]

00:32:21   law school but your dad was involved in [TS]

00:32:24   in politics of electr elected in [TS]

00:32:26   otherwise he was involved in the union's [TS]

00:32:28   do you have this is this is totally out [TS]

00:32:29   of nowhere but you have a gut sense of [TS]

00:32:32   what you're like looking at it from like [TS]

00:32:33   your dad's point of view like like [TS]

00:32:35   you're right now you're in a place where [TS]

00:32:36   you are you've got a good heart about [TS]

00:32:38   this and you're saying I believe that [TS]

00:32:39   there is there's hope for progressive [TS]

00:32:42   politics in a large town like you know [TS]

00:32:45   with the right people in place in a good [TS]

00:32:46   heart like you have a sense of what your [TS]

00:32:48   dad would consider his biggest win in [TS]

00:32:51   terms of not just not getting elected [TS]

00:32:53   but like is there something where what [TS]

00:32:55   was well as well as his big [TS]

00:32:57   constitutional crisis that where he came [TS]

00:33:00   out and went wow that that turned out [TS]

00:33:01   way better than I could give any sense [TS]

00:33:03   of that you know I'm saying like heeey [TS]

00:33:05   spent a lot of time it is a lawyer so [TS]

00:33:07   fucking lawyer for a living and working [TS]

00:33:08   in for Union guys 44 train companies [TS]

00:33:11   like what do have a sense of like what [TS]

00:33:13   felt like a big win to him in his career [TS]

00:33:16   well i mean i think generally overall [TS]

00:33:19   the civil rights movement was the big [TS]

00:33:21   win for everybody of his generation and [TS]

00:33:24   we don't think of it as a win because it [TS]

00:33:27   feels like it's so intractable and we're [TS]

00:33:29   still fighting it all the time but the [TS]

00:33:32   difference between the world that the [TS]

00:33:35   difference in the world he grew up in [TS]

00:33:37   and and the world that he left was from [TS]

00:33:43   from their standpoint astonishing you [TS]

00:33:45   know jack Tanner used to tell a story [TS]

00:33:47   that he got drafted into the Army during [TS]

00:33:51   the war and he was a very light-skinned [TS]

00:33:54   black guy what they used to call high [TS]

00:33:56   yella yeah ATM and photos hehe reads as [TS]

00:33:59   black guy for sure he reads as black guy [TS]

00:34:01   as an old as an old man but as a young [TS]

00:34:04   guy [TS]

00:34:05   particularly I think he probably conquer [TS]

00:34:08   his hair and he kind of looked Italian [TS]

00:34:14   or you know vaguely like Mediterranean [TS]

00:34:18   or it was unclear and it was obvious to [TS]

00:34:22   him he got inducted into the army and [TS]

00:34:25   goes through the whole process here in [TS]

00:34:29   tacoma and they put him on a train down [TS]

00:34:32   to georgia or somewhere where he's going [TS]

00:34:36   to go to boot camp and he's riding on [TS]

00:34:38   the train and he'll really looks around [TS]

00:34:40   and he realizes oh she is the only black [TS]

00:34:43   guy on on the train and he realizes then [TS]

00:34:50   that this was in an era when you weren't [TS]

00:34:54   ever the only black guy on the train [TS]

00:34:56   because you wouldn't be allowed on in [TS]

00:34:59   the car right and he realizes that [TS]

00:35:02   unless you're serving drinks right sure [TS]

00:35:04   if you were if you were if you had white [TS]

00:35:06   gloves on [TS]

00:35:07   he realizes that they think he's white [TS]

00:35:08   and that he's on he's headed to boot [TS]

00:35:13   camp in Georgia and they think up here [TS]

00:35:18   right they put him on the train and [TS]

00:35:20   thinking that he's that he's white and [TS]

00:35:21   he realizes he's gonna get to Georgia [TS]

00:35:23   and they're going to know he's not what [TS]

00:35:26   he's not white and he had this he had to [TS]

00:35:30   repeat had to think on this train ride [TS]

00:35:32   like do I try and pass or do I cop and [TS]

00:35:39   he went and said like hey I think [TS]

00:35:41   there's been a mistake and got himself [TS]

00:35:44   reassigned to you know what was still a [TS]

00:35:50   segregated army to a black company and [TS]

00:35:54   he ended up being a [TS]

00:35:56   he was a boat driver and drove what now [TS]

00:36:00   those do you know the Ducks that we all [TS]

00:36:02   have in our cities that drive around our [TS]

00:36:04   coastal our water cities you guys have [TS]

00:36:07   ducks there right [TS]

00:36:08   the amphibious and Phineas the duck [TS]

00:36:11   trucks or whatever he drove one of those [TS]

00:36:14   like in the big beach landings at [TS]

00:36:16   Okinawa and you know a late a golf and [TS]

00:36:22   all this stuff like he was he was a [TS]

00:36:25   landing craft driver but that is a very [TS]

00:36:30   you know temp compare that to him [TS]

00:36:32   30 years later where he is a federal [TS]

00:36:34   judge and you know a man of enormous [TS]

00:36:38   both power and also like held in in [TS]

00:36:42   pretty high esteem that transition for [TS]

00:36:46   my dad's generation was like incredibly [TS]

00:36:49   profound because in 1938 there was not [TS]

00:36:54   any sense that that that you can make [TS]

00:36:57   that much progress that fast [TS]

00:36:59   I think right made my dad's own success [TS]

00:37:04   was all measured in like he he worked [TS]

00:37:10   out he you know he was a great conflict [TS]

00:37:13   resolver and he worked out the [TS]

00:37:15   relationship between the dock workers [TS]

00:37:18   and the shipping companies you know on a [TS]

00:37:21   few different big disputes about how the [TS]

00:37:25   seattle waterfront was going to work and [TS]

00:37:27   then one when he went to Alaska and and [TS]

00:37:30   was the chief counsel for the railroad [TS]

00:37:31   there he was really instrumental in the [TS]

00:37:35   implementation of the Native Claims Act [TS]

00:37:37   and my dad was was for his generation a [TS]

00:37:41   completely color blind guy and the [TS]

00:37:44   Alaskan Natives learned to trust him [TS]

00:37:48   working at the at the at the road I [TS]

00:37:51   don't know if I've ever told you this [TS]

00:37:52   but the there's a city called Arctic [TS]

00:37:57   Circle Alaska and [TS]

00:38:03   it's a you know it's a native town and [TS]

00:38:07   they had a like a council or whatever [TS]

00:38:09   like a town board i guess a town board [TS]

00:38:13   and they called my dad up and said will [TS]

00:38:16   you come be the mayor of arctic circle [TS]

00:38:18   and he went up there and rat ran the [TS]

00:38:27   town for a while and eventually took my [TS]

00:38:33   car my 1977 chrysler imperial that he [TS]

00:38:39   had given me when I was 16 years old he [TS]

00:38:43   took the car and he drove it all the way [TS]

00:38:44   up to the Yukon River put it on a barge [TS]

00:38:47   floating it down the Yukon and gave it [TS]

00:38:52   to the town and for a while it was there [TS]

00:38:57   like town the town car I mean they had [TS]

00:39:00   obviously there were other cars there [TS]

00:39:02   but this was like the city car right [TS]

00:39:04   which you know what it would be fine [TS]

00:39:09   except that he took the car up put it on [TS]

00:39:11   a barge and set it down the Yukon [TS]

00:39:13   without emptying the glove box or the [TS]

00:39:15   trunk of all my shit and without [TS]

00:39:20   mentioning it to me so I think he's a [TS]

00:39:22   Trojan one-hitter is it i came home from [TS]

00:39:27   some trip and I was like where's my car [TS]

00:39:28   he was like oh I gave it to arctic [TS]

00:39:31   circle that was like you gave it to the [TS]

00:39:33   town and he's like yeah they needed a [TS]

00:39:35   town they need a city car I was like did [TS]

00:39:38   you get my shit out of it feels like it [TS]

00:39:41   was their shit in so some somewhere up [TS]

00:39:45   there they have a couple of cool jackets [TS]

00:39:47   of mine and i think i had i think i had [TS]

00:39:50   some kind of golf clubs who knows what [TS]

00:39:52   was in the car but there's no weed in [TS]

00:39:54   there [TS]

00:39:55   Oh probably probably I mean that would [TS]

00:39:59   have doubted that probably gone over [TS]

00:40:01   like gangbusters with the administration [TS]

00:40:03   of Arctic Circle Alaska but so my dad [TS]

00:40:06   was a guy that you know the guy that [TS]

00:40:08   everybody trusted and he was a guy that [TS]

00:40:10   women not everybody trusted input like [TS]

00:40:13   he was a he was a particularly I mean [TS]

00:40:16   both my mom and dad work were colorblind [TS]

00:40:21   people in an era before that was common [TS]

00:40:24   outside of kind of the Quaker like that [TS]

00:40:27   Quaker vibe of the Northeast where [TS]

00:40:30   people are hyper color blind to the [TS]

00:40:32   point that you almost don't believe them [TS]

00:40:33   but they were just natively that way [TS]

00:40:36   just naturally like judge people on [TS]

00:40:40   their on the look in their eye my sister [TS]

00:40:44   inherited that from them too [TS]

00:40:46   I'm you know I'm much more and much of [TS]

00:40:48   more of a hard case than anybody any of [TS]

00:40:50   the any of my people in terms of just [TS]

00:40:54   accepting everybody assuming the best of [TS]

00:41:00   everyone first you know I I walk into a [TS]

00:41:04   situation just like the Italian guy and [TS]

00:41:06   a good over here [TS]

00:41:10   hey Irish guy come here but but yeah my [TS]

00:41:15   folks were never like that [TS]

00:41:17   did he ever end up getting elected to a [TS]

00:41:20   a regular you know electoral publicly [TS]

00:41:23   voted thing [TS]

00:41:24   well he was so state legislature for for [TS]

00:41:27   a couple terms on the late forties early [TS]

00:41:30   fifties and then he he was the darling [TS]

00:41:34   of the of the Democratic Party in [TS]

00:41:36   washington state in the fifties and [TS]

00:41:39   their era parents but he drank too much [TS]

00:41:45   and then he went to work for Kennedy and [TS]

00:41:49   he was Kennedy's advance man through the [TS]

00:41:51   60 campaign and 60 now shit so he [TS]

00:41:55   traveled ahead of the Kennedy campaign [TS]

00:41:56   my dad was in you know Kennedy would be [TS]

00:41:59   in chicago on thursday and my dad would [TS]

00:42:02   have gotten there on tuesday and said [TS]

00:42:05   here's where the president's going to [TS]

00:42:06   stand [TS]

00:42:07   here's who he's yeah he's gonna shake [TS]

00:42:09   your hand and he's going to move over [TS]

00:42:11   here and you those doors need to be [TS]

00:42:13   closed and these hotel rooms need to be [TS]

00:42:15   blocked off and then so my dad kept [TS]

00:42:18   leapfrogging ahead of the campaign [TS]

00:42:21   squaring away the local Democrats [TS]

00:42:24   explaining how it was going to run and [TS]

00:42:26   you know being his kind of guy leading [TS]

00:42:30   the that the you know the events across [TS]

00:42:35   the country and the presumption and I i [TS]

00:42:40   I'm I'm imposing all this from way in [TS]

00:42:43   the future but i would think that [TS]

00:42:47   someone in that position would then have [TS]

00:42:50   a role in the new administration [TS]

00:42:53   yeah almost always right that's where [TS]

00:42:56   that largesse comes in is you get some [TS]

00:42:57   kind of an appointment right that's [TS]

00:42:59   right but my dad was mb throes of his [TS]

00:43:04   alcoholism at the time and drank himself [TS]

00:43:11   into a situation this is all very this [TS]

00:43:14   is all referred to in my family in this [TS]

00:43:16   very ghazi language where I tried and [TS]

00:43:22   tried and tried i confronted people i [TS]

00:43:24   SAT people down and said what happened [TS]

00:43:28   exactly [TS]

00:43:29   it's just one of the rare places where [TS]

00:43:32   the language just gets all weird and [TS]

00:43:34   everybody nobody even my mom who has [TS]

00:43:37   nothing to hide or whatever it just all [TS]

00:43:39   gets very confusing but my dad sat down [TS]

00:43:43   in a bar with a reporter from The [TS]

00:43:46   Washington Post and said some candid [TS]

00:43:49   things about Bobby Kennedy that while he [TS]

00:43:55   was drunk that were meant to be taken [TS]

00:43:58   off the record shit who knows exactly [TS]

00:44:02   what it was but some event some moment [TS]

00:44:07   in time and you know the Kennedys were [TS]

00:44:11   very you know that Bobby and Jack really [TS]

00:44:16   circled the wagons and they were like [TS]

00:44:19   everybody in that position and in that [TS]

00:44:22   Aris hyper paranoid bobby was hyper [TS]

00:44:24   paranoid [TS]

00:44:26   and you know you just get one chance to [TS]

00:44:29   fuck up right and whatever happened he [TS]

00:44:35   my dad came home from the campaign and [TS]

00:44:39   then that was over and there was no it [TS]

00:44:48   did not translate into him going to work [TS]

00:44:54   for Kennedy and in the process [TS]

00:44:56   his is good friend and patron Warren [TS]

00:45:01   magnuson who was a long time governor of [TS]

00:45:04   the state of Washington who had kind of [TS]

00:45:06   been again grooming my dad for some kind [TS]

00:45:09   of appointment like all of that got kind [TS]

00:45:13   of hazy and there was all of a sudden in [TS]

00:45:15   1960 this meteoric rise where people [TS]

00:45:21   were talking about him as you know [TS]

00:45:24   senate candidate or he was going to get [TS]

00:45:27   appointed to the bench or something even [TS]

00:45:29   he was you know a comet in the [TS]

00:45:33   Democratic Party through the fifties and [TS]

00:45:34   then post that post Kennedy post 1960 [TS]

00:45:39   all the sudden he's like the family [TS]

00:45:42   story changes and now he's practicing [TS]

00:45:46   law in Seattle and he's they moved out [TS]

00:45:50   to the country and got a house on the [TS]

00:45:52   water somewhere and my mom and dad were [TS]

00:45:54   out there trying to give you like a [TS]

00:45:56   straight story on that nada and and i [TS]

00:45:58   said to my dad toward the end of his [TS]

00:45:59   life I was like listen you gotta tell me [TS]

00:46:03   what went down because I'm because i [TS]

00:46:08   don't want to because you're the last [TS]

00:46:11   one that knows like right tanner is gone [TS]

00:46:14   the whole that whole job Bernie TV is [TS]

00:46:18   like out in the out in the weeds [TS]

00:46:21   no one's going to give me a straight [TS]

00:46:23   answer if you don't and at that point [TS]

00:46:27   right and right toward the end my dad [TS]

00:46:30   was like started to get a little bit [TS]

00:46:34   haha he started to stonewall me on some [TS]

00:46:38   things and he said I don't know what the [TS]

00:46:41   fuck you're talking about and I said [TS]

00:46:44   what happened in nineteen sixty and he [TS]

00:46:47   said nothing nothing fucking happened [TS]

00:46:50   and you know and he looked he looked [TS]

00:46:55   hurt and i didn't i didn't wanna press I [TS]

00:47:00   didn't want to press course not and it [TS]

00:47:03   was just like I don't know I I'm never [TS]

00:47:05   going to know if my mom won't tell me [TS]

00:47:07   and my dad wouldn't tell me and [TS]

00:47:11   everything through and and and honestly [TS]

00:47:13   I think it might be as simple as nobody [TS]

00:47:16   knows he might have just gone out [TS]

00:47:19   sitting in a bar and said something in [TS]

00:47:22   the window in the Roderick style like [TS]

00:47:26   yeah Bobby Kennedy what an asshole [TS]

00:47:28   United just said something [TS]

00:47:30   candid that everybody already kind of [TS]

00:47:34   knew Outen fidelity maybe the guy i mean [TS]

00:47:38   i think i think it's pretty gosh how [TS]

00:47:41   close to like everybody knowing it could [TS]

00:47:43   that be that young lady with everyone [TS]

00:47:45   tomcat everybody knew that hit his [TS]

00:47:48   famous story about bobby was everywhere [TS]

00:47:50   for all they know it's too late now the [TS]

00:47:53   Kennedys can't fucking touch me [TS]

00:47:54   what are you gonna do what are you gonna [TS]

00:47:56   do you'd be a mixed what along I watched [TS]

00:48:00   have a JFK today and I'm pretty fucking [TS]

00:48:01   scared [TS]

00:48:02   what's gonna happen is is rose gonna [TS]

00:48:04   rise up from the grave and stabbed in [TS]

00:48:06   the eye [TS]

00:48:07   they're all gone like Carolyn I'm not [TS]

00:48:11   afraid of Carolyn you've never been [TS]

00:48:13   afraid of Caroline Kennedy fucking take [TS]

00:48:15   Caroline Kennedy know the story the [TS]

00:48:19   story was they were in a hotel somewhere [TS]

00:48:21   in like somewhere in the Midwest and [TS]

00:48:25   it's a it's the you know it's the big [TS]

00:48:26   it's the Davenports or whatever it's the [TS]

00:48:28   big hotel in the center of town and and [TS]

00:48:34   jack is upstairs in the in the [TS]

00:48:35   presidential suite having a big meeting [TS]

00:48:39   with all of his his advisors and you [TS]

00:48:42   know of course the that whole floor is [TS]

00:48:44   blocked off their their state troopers [TS]

00:48:46   standing at the elevator [TS]

00:48:48   their Secret Service standing outside [TS]

00:48:49   the door and Bobby comes up the elevator [TS]

00:48:52   and my dad is there is the first hand [TS]

00:48:57   experience [TS]

00:48:58   Bobby comes up the elevator he walks [TS]

00:48:59   down the hall tries the door knob of the [TS]

00:49:05   room and finds it locked and rather than [TS]

00:49:11   knock or turn to the Secret Service guys [TS]

00:49:16   standing on either side of the door [TS]

00:49:18   Bobby takes a step back and puts his [TS]

00:49:22   foot through the door and kicks open the [TS]

00:49:26   window breaks the lock clicks open the [TS]

00:49:28   double doors of the sub the sweet to the [TS]

00:49:32   room and says why the fuck was this door [TS]

00:49:36   locked the principle being that Bobby [TS]

00:49:43   Kennedy is never on the wrong side of a [TS]

00:49:45   locked door where his brother is on the [TS]

00:49:47   other side food and that I mean my dad [TS]

00:49:53   having seen a lot of shit that was [TS]

00:49:56   particularly impressive to him and to [TS]

00:49:59   everyone in the room and you know and [TS]

00:50:00   and and Jack waved it off but imagine [TS]

00:50:04   the entitlement of a guy and also like [TS]

00:50:08   like the ruthlessness of somebody who's [TS]

00:50:12   first instinct is to kick the door down [TS]

00:50:16   yeah like only a brother you know what I [TS]

00:50:17   mean like before he knocked even rattle [TS]

00:50:22   the knob just took one step back and [TS]

00:50:25   boom wingtip on it onto the lock and so [TS]

00:50:32   you know i think that that particularly [TS]

00:50:34   before Bobby became attorney general [TS]

00:50:37   when it was just a campaign and [TS]

00:50:40   everybody was like who's the kid you [TS]

00:50:42   know who this [TS]

00:50:43   how was he 38 and how it was Bobby [TS]

00:50:47   during the during the campaign we have [TS]

00:50:49   still in his thirties that type of thing [TS]

00:50:54   you know I'm i can i can see my dad in a [TS]

00:50:57   in the in the hotel bar downstairs going [TS]

00:50:59   like you won't believe this guy [TS]

00:51:01   and somebody you know two booths over [TS]

00:51:05   over here is it and who who knows i'll [TS]

00:51:08   never know is the thing i'll never know [TS]

00:51:11   why why there was this this watershed [TS]

00:51:16   moment in my dad's career where he went [TS]

00:51:18   from heir apparent to you know he will [TS]

00:51:22   it's not like he was it was it was like [TS]

00:51:25   you know you're out tom right and and [TS]

00:51:30   and Tom's like but I can do you think I [TS]

00:51:33   can help out tom [TS]

00:51:34   you're out and then the decisions made [TS]

00:51:36   and it you know dad was always he was [TS]

00:51:40   always on friendly terms with with it [TS]

00:51:42   with that whole generation and you know [TS]

00:51:45   his good friend broc adams was appointed [TS]

00:51:47   Secretary of Transportation and a whole [TS]

00:51:52   handful of his friends went up to the [TS]

00:51:54   federal bench if it's such a big [TS]

00:51:56   difference between being welcomed in the [TS]

00:51:59   sanctum sanctorum vs not needing to be [TS]

00:52:03   welcomed there because they belong there [TS]

00:52:05   all the difference that never a one [TS]

00:52:08   thing I realized as growing up there was [TS]

00:52:11   that it never happens there's always a [TS]

00:52:13   inner door right Brendan broc adams has [TS]

00:52:17   to knock on the door to get into the you [TS]

00:52:22   know he's a fucking member of the [TS]

00:52:23   cabinet right but like it you get it you [TS]

00:52:27   see it in the west wing and that's what [TS]

00:52:28   one of the things that made that show so [TS]

00:52:30   good like the vice president of the [TS]

00:52:32   United States is constantly pissed off [TS]

00:52:35   about his access to the President and [TS]

00:52:38   like sucking his thumb over in the [TS]

00:52:41   executive office building because you [TS]

00:52:43   know because he has to call to get in to [TS]

00:52:47   see the president just like there's no [TS]

00:52:48   you're always always gets me waiting in [TS]

00:52:53   the lobby exactly like and I thought I I [TS]

00:52:57   probably told you that story with that [TS]

00:52:58   we did we opened for keen for [TS]

00:53:01   two-and-a-half months you know a few [TS]

00:53:03   years ago and the Keen the band are [TS]

00:53:07   brilliant to us and you know wonderful [TS]

00:53:09   wonderful people but they have hired a [TS]

00:53:11   staff of people [TS]

00:53:13   and part of the job of that staff is [TS]

00:53:15   precisely to tell us the opening band [TS]

00:53:18   not to step on any of Keynes cables and [TS]

00:53:22   you hear hears that we have put some [TS]

00:53:24   tape on the floor on the stage and you [TS]

00:53:27   need to be within that tape and don't [TS]

00:53:30   touch anything and you get you get to [TS]

00:53:32   choose one color for your lights because [TS]

00:53:34   we are not going to use our lights on [TS]

00:53:37   you so you could write an e-book just on [TS]

00:53:39   being the opening act that big color [TS]

00:53:42   make it good and we're like okay I guess [TS]

00:53:45   I guess white and they're like fine [TS]

00:53:47   done boom white and so we would walk on [TS]

00:53:50   stage of what the white lights would [TS]

00:53:51   come on and we'd be like standing inside [TS]

00:53:53   the line and we were out there for two [TS]

00:53:56   and the thing is that the band you know [TS]

00:53:58   the band is oblivious to it but this is [TS]

00:54:00   show business so they have a that they [TS]

00:54:02   pay people so they can get with it [TS]

00:54:03   that's right and you can absolutely tell [TS]

00:54:05   that they know that they're the at the [TS]

00:54:07   monitor desk there were you know there [TS]

00:54:10   were six power amps and they only turned [TS]

00:54:12   on three of them for our chef set and [TS]

00:54:15   then they turn on the other three and [TS]

00:54:16   and all of a sudden the sound comes [TS]

00:54:18   alive for the headliner and that's [TS]

00:54:19   common business so all these months were [TS]

00:54:22   out opening for kina were just standing [TS]

00:54:24   inside this little box and then at the [TS]

00:54:26   end of the tour the guys in King were [TS]

00:54:28   like hey we're opening for you to at [TS]

00:54:30   madison square garden would you like to [TS]

00:54:31   come to the show and I was like yes I [TS]

00:54:33   would [TS]

00:54:34   they said great you know fly out to New [TS]

00:54:36   York and and we'll put you up and we [TS]

00:54:40   just want you there is our guests [TS]

00:54:42   this is a big deal with you know you two [TS]

00:54:44   is playing five sold-out nights and [TS]

00:54:45   madison square garden and we're opening [TS]

00:54:47   for them we want you to be there like [TS]

00:54:49   about standing in a box [TS]

00:54:51   I was like how amazing and i get to the [TS]

00:54:52   show and it's absolutely right areas in [TS]

00:54:54   this band that i thought was like the [TS]

00:54:56   absolute peak of you mean they were [TS]

00:54:59   selling tens of thousands of Records a [TS]

00:55:01   week at that time all around the world [TS]

00:55:04   and here they are standing in a box with [TS]

00:55:06   one color of light and all around them [TS]

00:55:09   is all of you twos gear covered with [TS]

00:55:11   covered with black blankets and you [TS]

00:55:15   could just hear the state the YouTube [TS]

00:55:18   stage manager saying listen if you step [TS]

00:55:21   outside of these lines [TS]

00:55:22   we're going to electrocute you [TS]

00:55:24   we're going to work we're hiding behind [TS]

00:55:26   the drum riser with tazers if you move [TS]

00:55:29   an inch and they're just like and i'm [TS]

00:55:31   watching I'm like you're always fucking [TS]

00:55:33   opening for somebody there is somebody I [TS]

00:55:36   don't know if it's Kofi Anan or who it [TS]

00:55:38   is but there's somebody that you too has [TS]

00:55:40   to wait in the greenroom until what [TS]

00:55:45   until basically until the president the [TS]

00:55:47   united states walks past right there's [TS]

00:55:49   there's nobody that the president of the [TS]

00:55:51   United States has to wait for right but [TS]

00:55:54   everybody else there's always somebody [TS]

00:55:56   else that's like sorry we need to [TS]

00:56:00   we're gonna have to bring some rope off [TS]

00:56:02   this area for no reason except to keep [TS]

00:56:06   you on the other side of the rope-like [TS]

00:56:07   even warren buffett probably has that [TS]

00:56:10   there's there's some moment in time when [TS]

00:56:12   somebody puts a rope around him [TS]

00:56:15   let's imagine for a minute that in [TS]

00:56:16   nineteen sixty i mean i-i ii don't know [TS]

00:56:20   a whole lot about it but it [TS]

00:56:22   I bet next to dad next to gel i bet John [TS]

00:56:27   you exactly where he stood [TS]

00:56:28   he ordered all to his dad [TS]

00:56:32   I mean this is not this is not [TS]

00:56:33   conspiracy theory [TS]

00:56:35   I mean that's how he got elected with [TS]

00:56:37   his dad [TS]

00:56:38   well but think about think about the [TS]

00:56:40   same he's that he's the fucking [TS]

00:56:41   president there is no there is no into [TS]

00:56:43   your pal Bobby there is no attorney [TS]

00:56:44   general feature attorney-general sweet [TS]

00:56:46   there is a presidential suite but even [TS]

00:56:48   then like you know it's like you know I [TS]

00:56:51   yes I can because it's frank sinatra [TS]

00:56:53   says I can like in that instance like [TS]

00:56:55   well yeah I'm gonna be present because [TS]

00:56:56   my dad's working it out [TS]

00:56:58   well you have to join that Joe had Jones [TS]

00:57:01   suffered so many humiliations by that [TS]

00:57:03   point like he got his kid elected but he [TS]

00:57:08   himself was largely discredited as a [TS]

00:57:11   nazi apologist and i right [TS]

00:57:14   you know like he didn't email he made a [TS]

00:57:15   lot of enemies without making a [TS]

00:57:17   commensurate number of friends right [TS]

00:57:19   yeah yeah but when you think about the [TS]

00:57:21   burden the jack add his older brother [TS]

00:57:23   was supposed to be President his healthy [TS]

00:57:25   Hale and Hardy older brother right jack [TS]

00:57:28   was supposed to just be the like the [TS]

00:57:30   callow playboy the city kids he's the [TS]

00:57:33   secrecy the kid that's right i mean he I [TS]

00:57:35   don't think I don't think Jack would [TS]

00:57:36   have been Attorney General [TS]

00:57:37   his brother had been elected president [TS]

00:57:39   but his brother was killed in a suicide [TS]

00:57:41   mission that dumbass plane that dumbass [TS]

00:57:45   bomb-laden plane exploded over the [TS]

00:57:48   channel i had never seen this very [TS]

00:57:55   lovely obituary in the paper for your [TS]

00:57:57   dad few years ago [TS]

00:57:58   it's really nice you're quoted in it [TS]

00:57:59   it's a it's a lovely i mix and commonly [TS]

00:58:04   well-written obituary by modern [TS]

00:58:06   standards for your former legislator [TS]

00:58:09   David Roderick 86 [TS]

00:58:11   yeah he you know he it is his funeral I [TS]

00:58:18   still think about his funeral I still [TS]

00:58:19   wish i had done a better job at his [TS]

00:58:22   funeral of for whatever reason in that [TS]

00:58:27   moment I didn't feel like I could make a [TS]

00:58:31   speech and when I think about it now my [TS]

00:58:36   dad's whole life was about making a [TS]

00:58:40   speech and he never once was in an event [TS]

00:58:45   like that where somebody where the room [TS]

00:58:47   look to him and said you make a speech [TS]

00:58:49   where he didn't stand up and say and and [TS]

00:58:52   and you know a tap is glass was for can [TS]

00:58:57   say I just like to say on behalf of all [TS]

00:59:02   of my esteemed colleagues at the guest [TS]

00:59:07   of honor sitting on the dais is the son [TS]

00:59:10   of a bitch and regular haha rawr rawr [TS]

00:59:13   rawr rawr rock you know like my dad [TS]

00:59:16   never missed a chance at us today that's [TS]

00:59:18   a tough day there John [TS]

00:59:20   I was the air and that's and that's a [TS]

00:59:21   semiotic you could be forgiven for yeah [TS]

00:59:24   not having the best day ever had that [TS]

00:59:26   day I don't beat myself up too badly but [TS]

00:59:28   I but you know my uncle jack helped me [TS]

00:59:31   rent the main room of the Washington [TS]

00:59:34   athletic club where he transacted so [TS]

00:59:36   many of his his spilled drink you know [TS]

00:59:40   men's clubs lobby [TS]

00:59:43   Dayton's and like all the rock stars are [TS]

00:59:49   there the Seattle the young people are [TS]

00:59:51   all there supporting me right so it's a [TS]

00:59:53   room full of of of rock luminaries and [TS]

00:59:56   then they start filing in these little [TS]

00:59:59   all [TS]

00:59:59   all [TS]

01:00:00   men and the room fills up with these [TS]

01:00:02   little old dudes these and these little [TS]

01:00:04   little like 88 year old Japanese guys [TS]

01:00:07   and these little 88 year old black guys [TS]

01:00:10   in these little 88-year old Chinese guys [TS]

01:00:12   and these little 88-year old Italian [TS]

01:00:14   guys Jewish guys and all these it's like [TS]

01:00:17   a fucking Bennett on a diff such a thing [TS]

01:00:19   existed in 1940 and there and ye and I [TS]

01:00:25   start walking around and talking to them [TS]

01:00:26   like high you know [TS]

01:00:28   hey how do you do I'm John Roderick and [TS]

01:00:29   they're like oh yeah your dad was a real [TS]

01:00:32   son-of-a-bitch and I go yeah he was and [TS]

01:00:35   they're like well I've got a little [TS]

01:00:36   speech here and I said well you know how [TS]

01:00:39   it be you know by all means like make a [TS]

01:00:43   speech and they're like well wait I'll [TS]

01:00:44   wait until the you know till the [TS]

01:00:46   speeches start and I never started the [TS]

01:00:53   speeches i didn't get up at the lectern [TS]

01:00:56   and say we're gathered here today to [TS]

01:01:00   remember this old son-of-a-bitch because [TS]

01:01:04   there was a student there would have [TS]

01:01:05   been 15 guys walk up and say he used to [TS]

01:01:08   be such a son of a bitch like they were [TS]

01:01:10   all dying to do it and I never started [TS]

01:01:12   it and you know my brother my brother [TS]

01:01:14   was playing the piano over here there [TS]

01:01:17   was there was a trim cocktail over here [TS]

01:01:20   there was you know there are people [TS]

01:01:22   walking around in tuxedos with silver [TS]

01:01:24   trays and I and I'm standing there in [TS]

01:01:28   his suit I'm wearing his old three-piece [TS]

01:01:31   suit and I couldn't I couldn't stand up [TS]

01:01:38   and say let me tell you a story about [TS]

01:01:42   this pain-in-the-ass that was my dad and [TS]

01:01:46   little but you know where we were there [TS]

01:01:48   all afternoon [TS]

01:01:49   nobody got up and did it because it was [TS]

01:01:50   my job to do it even though I have two [TS]

01:01:52   older brothers and there were 25 people [TS]

01:01:55   there that that probably if you if you [TS]

01:02:00   rank them by you know by precedence or [TS]

01:02:06   whatever like but obviously feel like it [TS]

01:02:09   should have been your job well obviously [TS]

01:02:11   it was because for what [TS]

01:02:13   ever reason like in that moment it was I [TS]

01:02:18   was clearly being recognized as the new [TS]

01:02:21   patriarch and this was the this was a [TS]

01:02:25   very weird experience for me at the time [TS]

01:02:27   because there are a lot of people in my [TS]

01:02:29   family and a lot of other people who [TS]

01:02:32   should who were waiting for my dad to [TS]

01:02:35   die basically so that they could be the [TS]

01:02:37   old man and the energy in the family and [TS]

01:02:42   in the room was that [TS]

01:02:45   Oh in fact that had leapfrogged all [TS]

01:02:49   those people and now it was me and I was [TS]

01:02:52   like I'm not anywhere close to being [TS]

01:02:54   ready to be the patriarch I'm i am NOT [TS]

01:02:59   him yet and and yet it was decided it [TS]

01:03:05   was decided unconsciously by the tribe [TS]

01:03:07   and so I just kind of just stood there [TS]

01:03:12   and and you know I talk to every single [TS]

01:03:15   one of those people but like I didn't I [TS]

01:03:18   didn't make the speech and I didn't let [TS]

01:03:20   them make the speech I didn't give them [TS]

01:03:22   a possible permission to make the speech [TS]

01:03:25   and so we had a we had a lovely party [TS]

01:03:28   for him that was six hours long and [TS]

01:03:30   nobody made a single fucking speech and [TS]

01:03:34   to whatever degree I feel like my dad [TS]

01:03:38   watches over me I feel like he's also [TS]

01:03:41   may be trapped in purgatory until I make [TS]

01:03:45   a goddamn speech about it i think he [TS]

01:03:48   just did until it stand up in some hotel [TS]

01:03:51   lobby and say you did a pretty good job [TS]

01:03:52   just know this guy [TS]

01:03:54   well it was nice because we had another [TS]

01:03:57   uniform in Alaska and my uncle who does [TS]

01:04:00   not who does not accept my authority [TS]

01:04:03   uncle Jack who does not recognize my [TS]

01:04:05   authority as the new patriarch girls are [TS]

01:04:07   different in the plants kept very much [TS]

01:04:09   feels and rightly so that he is that he [TS]

01:04:11   is the last uh last Apache he said [TS]

01:04:15   what's or stand around there and that [TS]

01:04:17   was an amazing funeral the [TS]

01:04:19   there were was a former governor their [TS]

01:04:21   former senator there who had not spoken [TS]

01:04:24   to each other in 20 years and that the [TS]

01:04:27   obituary in the Alaska paper [TS]

01:04:29   well the headline of the obituary was [TS]

01:04:32   ted stevens and Tony knowles make up [TS]

01:04:38   their 20-year feud and Dave Roberts [TS]

01:04:40   Funeral like the it resolved there that [TS]

01:04:45   like 20 years of not speaking to each [TS]

01:04:47   other but at that event my uncle Jack [TS]

01:04:49   walked into the center of the room and [TS]

01:04:51   he said alright you sons of bitches [TS]

01:04:52   let's hear it let's hear your stories [TS]

01:04:56   about this old son-of-a-bitch and that [TS]

01:05:00   then everybody went crazy I mean that [TS]

01:05:01   was that was very fun that was the day I [TS]

01:05:03   met sarah palin really yeah she was here [TS]

01:05:07   she did not go to my dad's funeral but [TS]

01:05:09   she was down the hall at a alaska state [TS]

01:05:13   Republican fundraising convention was [TS]

01:05:16   before she she was governor but it was [TS]

01:05:20   before she had been tapped to be the [TS]

01:05:22   vice president and all my friends that [TS]

01:05:26   came to my dance room were like have you [TS]

01:05:27   seen our governor have you seen Alaska's [TS]

01:05:31   governor and I was like I don't think so [TS]

01:05:33   no they were like dude sexy sexy to [TS]

01:05:36   chill [TS]

01:05:37   she's the hottest governor of all 50 [TS]

01:05:39   governor's I was like amazing really [TS]

01:05:42   they're like yeah dude i said but isn't [TS]

01:05:44   she a Republican you have it doesn't [TS]

01:05:46   matter huge she's fucking hot [TS]

01:05:48   she's a hot governor did that's [TS]

01:05:51   basically my Alaska friend impression so [TS]

01:05:57   hot man she was pretty hard she was [TS]

01:06:00   pretty hot now she really was not so hot [TS]

01:06:03   anymore now that I know more standby [TS]

01:06:05   sexxxy Peggy Hill [TS]

01:06:08   the throne with that is it wrong for me [TS]

01:06:10   to feel like the only redeeming quality [TS]

01:06:14   of family guy is that the mom is hot and [TS]

01:06:18   that i find her really hot [TS]

01:06:21   no no it's wrong it's wrong with your [TS]

01:06:22   confusing family guy in king of the hill [TS]

01:06:24   but I but no you totally i have so many [TS]

01:06:27   friends that just cannot even stand to [TS]

01:06:28   watch family kind well no it's the worst [TS]

01:06:31   television show in the world in minutes [TS]

01:06:33   it's evidence of our our decline takes [TS]

01:06:36   and that the mom [TS]

01:06:38   the redheaded mom she seemed real perky [TS]

01:06:41   it's just like I don't know what it is [TS]

01:06:43   you can tell that she's a dangerous [TS]

01:06:45   actor you know you you can just tell [TS]

01:06:48   no no no no I'm just saying that like [TS]

01:06:51   you know in the rightness on seen or [TS]

01:06:54   talked about the character a lot of time [TS]

01:06:56   with the cartoon character yeah the [TS]

01:06:57   carrot cartoon character right yeah like [TS]

01:07:00   in a way that Betty Rubble should have [TS]

01:07:03   been hotter but there wasn't that danger [TS]

01:07:07   she didn't have that element of danger [TS]

01:07:08   in the way that what well what's your [TS]

01:07:13   fucking elephant what's a at ted baker [TS]

01:07:17   patty deafen yeah I think that's the [TS]

01:07:19   country so this country singer I think [TS]

01:07:21   of you make that mistake a lot [TS]

01:07:23   yeah but very hot you know like that [TS]

01:07:25   that the there's only a couple of times [TS]

01:07:27   I've ever gone on the internet and [TS]

01:07:29   googled rule 34 like rule 34 Trix rabbit [TS]

01:07:36   or whatever it is that you want to see [TS]

01:07:39   rule 34 word you're saying that that's [TS]

01:07:42   that's the rule that says that there is [TS]

01:07:43   going to be a girl version of things [TS]

01:07:46   rule 34 as i understand it is that if [TS]

01:07:49   you can think of it [TS]

01:07:50   someone has made porn about it oh so if [TS]

01:07:54   you google it was that a real 30 i [TS]

01:07:56   thought that was that Eddie Vetter had [TS]

01:07:57   covered it haha i had this so i was on [TS]

01:08:01   Todd berries podcast and listen to it [TS]

01:08:03   and I is a microphone [TS]

01:08:06   oh yeah todd has bad microphones all he [TS]

01:08:09   was but it was it was charming part III [TS]

01:08:11   listen to listen to almost all of it and [TS]

01:08:14   I'm gonna listen to the whole thing that [TS]

01:08:15   he sounds like a very very nice guy [TS]

01:08:17   yeah I like him a lot seems very [TS]

01:08:19   down-to-earth well I wouldn't say that [TS]

01:08:21   ok he lives here uniglobe right up but [TS]

01:08:26   he he at one point I said something [TS]

01:08:28   about about Pearl Jam and I got an email [TS]

01:08:32   the other day from the music editor of [TS]

01:08:34   the LA Weekly who said hey I i thought [TS]

01:08:39   what you said about program in the top [TS]

01:08:42   very podcast was really hilarious [TS]

01:08:44   would you mind if we just transcribed it [TS]

01:08:46   and used it at in our article about the [TS]

01:08:51   upcoming programs shows in LA and i said [TS]

01:08:56   i don't remember i replied i do not [TS]

01:08:58   remember what I said but i am now having [TS]

01:09:01   written the punk rock is bullshit [TS]

01:09:03   article and spent like four weeks [TS]

01:09:06   getting 40 hate mails a day from from [TS]

01:09:10   people who run youth Center's I am NOT [TS]

01:09:14   therapy very cautious about saying [TS]

01:09:20   something sold out by saying that used [TS]

01:09:23   to be really big thing if you look I [TS]

01:09:27   don't want to say something about Pearl [TS]

01:09:30   Jam that might even slightly be [TS]

01:09:33   construed as aunty pearl jam quoted out [TS]

01:09:37   of context quoted out of context because [TS]

01:09:40   I just don't I don't ever want to get a [TS]

01:09:42   delusion of like rabid hate mail again [TS]

01:09:47   not you know I i retract nothing but I [TS]

01:09:53   just don't want to instead I don't want [TS]

01:09:55   to encourage people who are crazy to see [TS]

01:09:59   me as a target and the LA Weekly was [TS]

01:10:03   like oh no you don't say anything bad [TS]

01:10:06   about program I mean you just talk about [TS]

01:10:08   how they were like a jock frat funk band [TS]

01:10:12   haha [TS]

01:10:16   and I said you don't think that that [TS]

01:10:19   would make anybody mad in the pearls and [TS]

01:10:23   family and then it was not it was just a [TS]

01:10:26   day ago or so that they Roderick on the [TS]

01:10:29   line listener was just tweeted something [TS]

01:10:32   to the effect that he was still mad at [TS]

01:10:34   you and me for having said something bad [TS]

01:10:37   about protein and so we've ever said [TS]

01:10:39   anything bad about Pearl Jam know [TS]

01:10:41   there's nothing bad to say about program [TS]

01:10:43   but i think i might have spoken about [TS]

01:10:44   Pearl Jam in a way all the shit we said [TS]

01:10:47   how how could you listen to show more [TS]

01:10:50   than two or three times and think the [TS]

01:10:51   worst thing we've ever had to say was [TS]

01:10:52   about fucking pearl chances what I'm [TS]

01:10:54   saying they're on your friends with [TS]

01:10:55   pearl jam I think pearl jam is fine [TS]

01:10:57   there are people who seem probably nice [TS]

01:11:00   mad at us for having spoken ill of bruce [TS]

01:11:04   springsteen and that was just me I I [TS]

01:11:06   don't know anything about is all you [TS]

01:11:08   entirely of that and and yet they're so [TS]

01:11:11   mad they probably won't even tweet about [TS]

01:11:12   it which is like invited by modern [TS]

01:11:15   standards as matters which everybody we [TS]

01:11:17   get that mad so mad that we're not even [TS]

01:11:25   going to give it I can't do it [TS]