Roderick on the Line

Ep. 88: "Grotesquerie Ray"


00:00:00   founded my dad [TS]

00:00:06   [Music] [TS]

00:00:12   hello Daejeon hi Merlin is going good my [TS]

00:00:18   feet are cold [TS]

00:00:19   oh yeah I i am i am wearing a sweater [TS]

00:00:24   but i forgot to put slippers on slipper [TS]

00:00:28   Chris yeah I have slippers [TS]

00:00:29   ok I gotta slippers you got I don't live [TS]

00:00:32   in California I i have slippers don't [TS]

00:00:34   talk that way to me in my house you know [TS]

00:00:36   drafting my house is my house has my [TS]

00:00:39   house has the original furnace from 1922 [TS]

00:00:41   and which means there is a chimney blast [TS]

00:00:45   coming straight up the middle through [TS]

00:00:46   one of its other words chim-chim blast [TS]

00:00:50   the battle part of heat of theirs i have [TS]

00:00:57   i have a couple of pairs and nothing [TS]

00:00:58   comes out of the other ones nothing [TS]

00:01:00   yeah well you live in California right [TS]

00:01:03   it's like our socks like a gentleman [TS]

00:01:05   like 800 degrees every day [TS]

00:01:07   oh you can be California was sunny all [TS]

00:01:09   the time we go swimming and I know my [TS]

00:01:12   dad used to say that we have cold this [TS]

00:01:15   winter I ever spent was a summer example [TS]

00:01:17   this car is over [TS]

00:01:19   uh-huh i have three pairs of slippers [TS]

00:01:23   wow why would that surprise me i have an [TS]

00:01:27   old pair of like elk skin slippers from [TS]

00:01:32   from the old days from Alaska then I [TS]

00:01:36   have a more modern pair of slippers [TS]

00:01:38   slippers cy5 put some more modern you [TS]

00:01:42   have a new the the sort of a wishbone [TS]

00:01:44   suspension and then so i guess you [TS]

00:01:46   better torsion control [TS]

00:01:48   that's right exactly exactly better [TS]

00:01:49   cornering and then I have a pair of [TS]

00:01:51   slippers that were given to me as a [TS]

00:01:53   christmas present it's a classic [TS]

00:01:55   christmas present gift for a man it's a [TS]

00:01:57   fallback in ya get a slipper and I have [TS]

00:01:59   a pair of slippers that are the bug [TS]

00:02:01   brand roof [TS]

00:02:04   but they don't look like the boots [TS]

00:02:06   they're just normal slippers but doesn't [TS]

00:02:08   make you look like a twenty-year-old go [TS]

00:02:10   and get that yeah you don't look like a [TS]

00:02:12   20 year old girl that doesn't know how [TS]

00:02:14   to address you look like a normal guy [TS]

00:02:16   but in slippers that are from Australia [TS]

00:02:18   is the tired all the time so I put them [TS]

00:02:21   on when I'm walking around my my my old [TS]

00:02:23   house in the winter but i forgot today [TS]

00:02:24   so right now i have a I I just wrapped a [TS]

00:02:27   jacket around haha ah pretty soon that [TS]

00:02:33   voice that Dad voice is not going to be [TS]

00:02:35   affected [TS]

00:02:36   no it's gonna be I'm I've here myself [TS]

00:02:38   transitioning to it all more and more [TS]

00:02:39   all the time it's just like one where [TS]

00:02:42   the hell are my slippers understand- [TS]

00:02:45   three pairs of slippers like it happens [TS]

00:02:47   to me all the time I started buying [TS]

00:02:50   multiples of my staple articles of [TS]

00:02:52   clothing and i still can't find them i [TS]

00:02:55   have six different carhartt caps and [TS]

00:02:58   it's unusual that i can find one of them [TS]

00:02:59   i just keep losing them or miss laying [TS]

00:03:02   them your carhartt cap is such an icon [TS]

00:03:05   it's like the Swiss Army knife of [TS]

00:03:06   headgear yeah it keeps you warm you know [TS]

00:03:09   a lot of the heat escapes you know [TS]

00:03:11   through the head to the head yeah yeah [TS]

00:03:13   and you can take a nap in it you can you [TS]

00:03:16   can curl all the way up inside it [TS]

00:03:18   yeah you can go into a little ball and [TS]

00:03:19   rock just good [TS]

00:03:21   there's a ladder in there and you just [TS]

00:03:23   keep climbing up into your hat [TS]

00:03:25   you know I i was just in New York and I [TS]

00:03:28   took the plunge [TS]

00:03:30   i don't i'm not even sure I'm going to [TS]

00:03:32   tell you about this because you're gonna [TS]

00:03:34   lie i'm not sure what your reaction is [TS]

00:03:36   going to be like to think I'm supportive [TS]

00:03:38   alright well I took the plunge and i [TS]

00:03:40   bought some skinny jeans [TS]

00:03:42   oh wow oh yeah you're struggling if I [TS]

00:03:46   hadn't if I hadn't prefaced that you you [TS]

00:03:49   might have had a different reaction than [TS]

00:03:50   25 years ago wasn't worried [TS]

00:03:52   well that's true that's true but now you [TS]

00:03:55   know you're in a transitional period [TS]

00:03:57   you're having a sexy little Jackson know [TS]

00:03:58   you kidding me I'll come on be serious i [TS]

00:04:01   said around all weekend just being [TS]

00:04:02   envious [TS]

00:04:03   haha just envious I've been envious of [TS]

00:04:05   you all my friends like for a week not [TS]

00:04:07   publicly no no but privately envious you [TS]

00:04:10   guys are you guys are very are sitting [TS]

00:04:11   around talking about dicks in New York [TS]

00:04:13   and I'm I'm sitting there watching [TS]

00:04:14   chinese [TS]

00:04:14   these depressing so anyway season there [TS]

00:04:18   you were that you were the missing [TS]

00:04:19   element [TS]

00:04:19   haha yeah this is shining comfort [TS]

00:04:23   no Sean was on point my god he was [TS]

00:04:25   hilarious and because it's gotten so [TS]

00:04:27   handsome John giant lovefest oh gosh can [TS]

00:04:30   we talk about we circle back to that I'd [TS]

00:04:31   like to hear more about that but it [TS]

00:04:33   wasn't exactly skinny or they physically [TS]

00:04:35   skinny they're both right so I'm so [TS]

00:04:38   here's what happened a year ago Jonathan [TS]

00:04:40   Coulton and I were playin that christmas [TS]

00:04:42   show down at the city winery in the in [TS]

00:04:45   the lower lower part of Manhattan that [TS]

00:04:47   the meatpacking Soho's or wherever the [TS]

00:04:52   hell and I jumped up on stage during the [TS]

00:04:54   soundcheck in a kind of Cavalier Way [TS]

00:04:56   like yeah I'm a 40-something guy but I'm [TS]

00:04:59   gonna just I'm not going to take the [TS]

00:05:01   stairs i'm going to jump up on the stage [TS]

00:05:03   and a and the crush of my pants ripped [TS]

00:05:07   out and it was during the soundcheck and [TS]

00:05:11   I'm like this is you know this is what [TS]

00:05:13   it's come to I'm 30-something guy and [TS]

00:05:16   I'm lucky I didn't throw my back out [TS]

00:05:19   when I jumped up on the stage but i did [TS]

00:05:21   totally destroyed my kids start to [TS]

00:05:24   really do just enough cognition to know [TS]

00:05:26   something is going wrong and you make [TS]

00:05:28   that the category error trying to [TS]

00:05:29   compensate midland well and I don't know [TS]

00:05:32   when I felt and heard the ripping I was [TS]

00:05:35   like hernia [TS]

00:05:36   what did I just rip my groin no thank [TS]

00:05:40   goodness it was just these old khakis [TS]

00:05:42   so I said to everybody at the show I was [TS]

00:05:45   like listen I'm not going to play the [TS]

00:05:46   show with my pants ripped i'm going to [TS]

00:05:48   go out this is like Manhattan this is a [TS]

00:05:50   prime shopping district here the west [TS]

00:05:53   village I'm going to run over i'm going [TS]

00:05:56   to get a pair of pants so I run out of [TS]

00:05:57   the venue and I'm going shop to shop [TS]

00:06:00   through this sort of west village [TS]

00:06:03   shopping area and every pair of pants is [TS]

00:06:05   five hundred dollars [TS]

00:06:06   like I run into a Ralph Lorenz store but [TS]

00:06:09   it's some kind of flagship Ralph Lorenz [TS]

00:06:12   store where all the you know and the [TS]

00:06:15   other that the powerful not like any [TS]

00:06:18   outlet store you're not gonna get like a [TS]

00:06:20   forty two dollar pair of pants no I was [TS]

00:06:22   like what [TS]

00:06:22   where's the sales where's the sale table [TS]

00:06:24   and the you know the guy in the shawl [TS]

00:06:26   collar sweater was just like just [TS]

00:06:29   chewing me out the door like no thank [TS]

00:06:31   you your patronage is not welcome now [TS]

00:06:34   public restrooms so I'm wandering around [TS]

00:06:36   down there and I'm like I gotta find a [TS]

00:06:38   pair of pants and I'm em in this strange [TS]

00:06:40   world where I I've grown used to [TS]

00:06:42   anywhere in America being able to go 10 [TS]

00:06:46   feet in any direction and find a ten [TS]

00:06:47   dollar pair of pants made in china and [TS]

00:06:50   now now I'm in this world where all [TS]

00:06:52   these pants were hand stitched by some [TS]

00:06:54   Italian grandmother and I just need a [TS]

00:06:57   pair of pants it's not i I'm not kidding [TS]

00:06:58   around and then somebody says to me [TS]

00:07:02   have you been to uniqlo have you been to [TS]

00:07:05   uniqlo and i said i don't know i havent [TS]

00:07:08   and they were like oh that that's your [TS]

00:07:10   answer and so I run into this store [TS]

00:07:13   uniqlo which is this giant sort of H&M [TS]

00:07:15   style place but all the closer from [TS]

00:07:19   Japan's County it's like target for [TS]

00:07:20   hipsters super hip everybody in their [TS]

00:07:23   super hip and I run around and there [TS]

00:07:25   have been no pants bigger than a 32 [TS]

00:07:27   waist but somewhere up in the very back [TS]

00:07:29   of the store I find these paints and I [TS]

00:07:31   really turned out i really liked them I [TS]

00:07:33   found a pair that fit me it was in some [TS]

00:07:35   dad on a dad shelf like it I like for [TS]

00:07:40   the for the dad that I accidentally got [TS]

00:07:41   dragged into the store there's this one [TS]

00:07:44   shelf where his daughter you know what [TS]

00:07:46   were the daughters get some stores have [TS]

00:07:48   a session with toys [TS]

00:07:49   the kids can't exactly come over try [TS]

00:07:51   these like a hardware store with a [TS]

00:07:53   section of toys [TS]

00:07:54   this is a hipster store with a one shelf [TS]

00:07:57   for dads and and and like the largest [TS]

00:08:00   size they carry is 36 so its place to [TS]

00:08:02   have to be kind of fit dad's even and I [TS]

00:08:05   like to think I'm fit that but you know [TS]

00:08:07   give yourself credit you are also a tall [TS]

00:08:09   man tall tall i'm told that all fit dad [TS]

00:08:12   your fear of Falstaff and father [TS]

00:08:15   yeah i'm not quite fit but tall bad [TS]

00:08:16   let's see what do you like you're like [TS]

00:08:17   you're like 62 63 [TS]

00:08:20   x3 and at them at the most i have to say [TS]

00:08:23   i was over 240 pounds edging to 250 [TS]

00:08:28   pounds that's not that bad it's pretty [TS]

00:08:30   bad because you know I was shuffling [TS]

00:08:33   around like a golem think that uniqlo [TS]

00:08:37   number through the streets of prague [TS]

00:08:39   enacting vengeance and and that's not [TS]

00:08:43   how I want to live with the next 40 [TS]

00:08:45   years so anyway so i'm in manhattan [TS]

00:08:46   again i'm walking around down and on the [TS]

00:08:48   lower east side i'm looking for Todd [TS]

00:08:49   Barry's house can i I got lost and then [TS]

00:08:52   I see the uniqlo and I remember I had a [TS]

00:08:54   great time in there so i went in again [TS]

00:08:57   and I'm standing there I'm looking [TS]

00:09:02   around and there's this big pile of like [TS]

00:09:04   skinny jeans a thing that I have been [TS]

00:09:07   opposed to it so i guess i could say [TS]

00:09:10   it's been a punchline uniqlo skinny [TS]

00:09:12   jeans have actually been a punchline for [TS]

00:09:14   a year for you [TS]

00:09:15   that's right they've been a punchline [TS]

00:09:16   and and particularly a punch line when [TS]

00:09:19   an older dad would even fit dad goes [TS]

00:09:23   into a store like this and thinks to [TS]

00:09:25   himself I'm going to get some of these [TS]

00:09:26   skinny jeans you know what I'm a young [TS]

00:09:28   guy and I did excited precisely that I [TS]

00:09:32   was like you know i'm a young healthy [TS]

00:09:33   fit dad gonna get some of these skinny [TS]

00:09:36   jeans and I got him and i love them and [TS]

00:09:42   I'm and I don't know what the I don't [TS]

00:09:44   know what to make of it you know because [TS]

00:09:45   i want you [TS]

00:09:45   we've talked about this before i'm [TS]

00:09:47   always trying to gauge like em because [TS]

00:09:50   i'm inside myself am I missing some [TS]

00:09:53   crucial q that I have become that I've [TS]

00:09:56   emerging into self-parody like em I am I [TS]

00:10:01   do not want to be the dad who dyes his [TS]

00:10:03   hair orange out of spite like a tiny [TS]

00:10:09   ponytail in the back [TS]

00:10:10   yeah well I mean about that you know [TS]

00:10:12   that the tiny ponytail we all know not [TS]

00:10:14   to do but the butt like this the skinny [TS]

00:10:17   jeans like you see guys you see older [TS]

00:10:19   guys who are still wearing like really [TS]

00:10:21   tailored clothes and you're like that [TS]

00:10:22   guy looks great but then you look over [TS]

00:10:24   it at the guy over here that's like [TS]

00:10:26   wearing a nirvana [TS]

00:10:29   t-shirt and you know it has like a roach [TS]

00:10:32   clip ear ring and you're like that guy [TS]

00:10:33   doesn't look great right [TS]

00:10:35   he's missing he's mr q he's missed some [TS]

00:10:38   key missed a turn [TS]

00:10:39   that's right so anyway so I walk out in [TS]

00:10:42   the skinny jeans and I'm walking down [TS]

00:10:43   the street about the developed bulb and [TS]

00:10:45   I'm feeling like I'm i am rocking these [TS]

00:10:48   skinny jeans [TS]

00:10:49   I'm legitimately rocking them and [TS]

00:10:52   they're comfortable and they're [TS]

00:10:53   inexpensive so Marlon I feel like I'm on [TS]

00:10:58   a I'm honored there's some there's some [TS]

00:11:00   precipice MRI came back here to my house [TS]

00:11:03   after my trip to new york and i'm [TS]

00:11:05   looking at the clothes in my closet mom [TS]

00:11:06   like none of these clothes are skinny [TS]

00:11:08   enough for me anymore [TS]

00:11:09   oh all these closer like they're all [TS]

00:11:11   blousy I don't want I don't want blousy [TS]

00:11:15   pants now that I'm one of the skinny [TS]

00:11:16   jean generation I can't walk around his [TS]

00:11:19   handwriting hitting that one pair of [TS]

00:11:22   skinny jeans has made and then come [TS]

00:11:24   easiest time away right it helps you get [TS]

00:11:26   some time way that's the beauty of [TS]

00:11:27   travel right come back and now you've [TS]

00:11:29   got a little bit of perspective I got a [TS]

00:11:31   little bit of perspective and i realized [TS]

00:11:33   that i have been buying kind of it's [TS]

00:11:35   hard to buy oversized clothes when you [TS]

00:11:37   are already an oversized person is that [TS]

00:11:39   really true in most in most stores it [TS]

00:11:42   used to be the largest possible size [TS]

00:11:44   they had was the thing that I needed to [TS]

00:11:47   buy but now we're living in this triple [TS]

00:11:50   extra-large world there are a lot of [TS]

00:11:53   inflation in sizes incredible where you [TS]

00:11:55   go into a store i mean it used to be in [TS]

00:11:57   the thrift stores like the XL section of [TS]

00:12:00   any rack was like five or six items that [TS]

00:12:04   you know five or six freakish items at [TS]

00:12:06   the end of the scale was actually being [TS]

00:12:08   a half inch neck and any was recently is [TS]

00:12:10   maybe 10 15 x 15 years ago and an XL [TS]

00:12:13   even accounting for shrinkage over the [TS]

00:12:15   years and XL in a thrift store would be [TS]

00:12:18   like a large medium yeah right it barely [TS]

00:12:20   barely goes over your bellybutton [TS]

00:12:22   yeah yeah you walk around looking like [TS]

00:12:24   damien jurado all the time so but now [TS]

00:12:27   there's quadruple extra larges and I [TS]

00:12:30   realized that I had I have a lot of like [TS]

00:12:32   coats jackets like a like a sport coats [TS]

00:12:36   that don't fit me and all their there i [TS]

00:12:40   bought them about them they're too large [TS]

00:12:43   and i was i was trying to do I was [TS]

00:12:45   trying to make my size seem smaller by [TS]

00:12:47   one had two big jacket it's not that [TS]

00:12:50   that's it that is an error people make [TS]

00:12:52   yeah and so I look like a little boy who [TS]

00:12:55   was who somebody hit with a grotesquerie [TS]

00:12:58   ray over four minutes on this listing a [TS]

00:13:05   couple seconds exactly like hey there's [TS]

00:13:07   a five-year-old boy and fitted with that [TS]

00:13:09   damn America but the radon you get the [TS]

00:13:13   fighter x and then he just like bro good [TS]

00:13:16   his clothes get big can address the baby [TS]

00:13:21   elephant in the room is it i feel like [TS]

00:13:23   i've seen some photos of you I we have [TS]

00:13:25   not addressed as directly as we try to [TS]

00:13:26   avoid talking about food and fatherhood [TS]

00:13:28   would with generally failing all but I [TS]

00:13:31   know now so with your newfound food [TS]

00:13:35   paradigm you your new technologies about [TS]

00:13:38   food [TS]

00:13:39   have you lost a little weight I've lost [TS]

00:13:41   a little weight [TS]

00:13:42   ok night night and i have i have more [TS]

00:13:44   energy i'm i'm back to feeling youth [TS]

00:13:46   full and but the John a year ago [TS]

00:13:49   what would have would have been doubly [TS]

00:13:51   sarcastic because those are jokey pants [TS]

00:13:52   for for that you would never even be [TS]

00:13:54   able to wear right yeah well the John of [TS]

00:13:57   a year ago in skinny jeans would have [TS]

00:13:59   looked like a like a blue ice cream cone [TS]

00:14:02   and it ends up looking like a blue [TS]

00:14:06   double scoop ice cream cone and and now [TS]

00:14:09   like yes right exactly [TS]

00:14:11   denim ice cream giant Christians but now [TS]

00:14:16   I feel like yeah but even in and out of [TS]

00:14:19   in and out of downtown crowds and I like [TS]

00:14:24   to think that my legs are one of my best [TS]

00:14:25   features [TS]

00:14:27   you've got Stanton's and and so on my k [TS]

00:14:30   i'm feeling I'm feeling good i wanna i [TS]

00:14:32   want to have I want to have some clothes [TS]

00:14:34   that fit me a little bit better and that [TS]

00:14:38   you know this is the funny thing about [TS]

00:14:39   about like where I am now having having [TS]

00:14:42   changed my eating enough that I feel [TS]

00:14:44   better [TS]

00:14:46   and I feel like I look better in my [TS]

00:14:48   clothes fit better i'm now I'm now [TS]

00:14:51   struggling against this this tendency [TS]

00:14:53   this like this radical tendency to be [TS]

00:15:01   dissatisfied with where I am now and [TS]

00:15:04   want and set a new goal for myself which [TS]

00:15:06   is totally unrealistic and soul [TS]

00:15:11   destroying you know like if if you had [TS]

00:15:14   told me three months ago that I would [TS]

00:15:15   look and feel like I do today I would [TS]

00:15:18   have said that's the goal but having [TS]

00:15:21   achieved that goal now now I have this [TS]

00:15:24   like creeping body dysmorphia this is [TS]

00:15:29   sort of addict behavior where I'm like [TS]

00:15:31   well alright so I'll I've lost x plus [TS]

00:15:33   some amount of weight and I feel much [TS]

00:15:35   better now the goal is to become Jack [TS]

00:15:38   LaLanne and to swim across San Francisco [TS]

00:15:40   Bay towing five tugboats with my teeth [TS]

00:15:43   what up you know like now my goal is to [TS]

00:15:46   become a like a total like freakish hard [TS]

00:15:52   body exercise nut who talks to everybody [TS]

00:15:55   about gluten intolerance on the on [TS]

00:15:57   public transit and you know and Anna and [TS]

00:16:01   I catch myself doing it I'm like why are [TS]

00:16:03   you doing this why are you sabotaging [TS]

00:16:04   yourself by taking this good this good [TS]

00:16:08   thing this is unequivocally good thing [TS]

00:16:09   that you've done simple and good and [TS]

00:16:12   perverting it into into a mania which [TS]

00:16:17   you which then you will fail and then [TS]

00:16:20   like if I hiked I will snatch [TS]

00:16:23   disappointment from the jaws of victory [TS]

00:16:25   every time [TS]

00:16:26   uh-huh so anyway I'm trying to talk [TS]

00:16:28   myself out of that and just be content [TS]

00:16:29   to be kind of a you know fit that what [TS]

00:16:34   you're using your kind of getting out [TS]

00:16:35   that there are two things here that are [TS]

00:16:38   worth just separate on the one hand yes [TS]

00:16:40   you have lost a little weight but let's [TS]

00:16:43   just say it also you are feeling better [TS]

00:16:44   you're feeling clearer like me right [TS]

00:16:47   you're not feeling is I'm in the clear [TS]

00:16:49   us foggy let's have gone clear you let's [TS]

00:16:52   say that you have for the sake of [TS]

00:16:53   argument on clear but it's also like a [TS]

00:16:59   little bit [TS]

00:16:59   like I wouldn't not say that you were [TS]

00:17:01   like calcified but like you have made [TS]

00:17:03   your peace for better for worse like [TS]

00:17:05   okay I'm John I don't wear skinny jeans [TS]

00:17:06   and wire and I don't talk about food but [TS]

00:17:09   you know I don't wear skinny jeans I [TS]

00:17:10   don't want to talk about food and I'm [TS]

00:17:11   gonna have a heart attack when I'm 54 [TS]

00:17:13   you know what Dad biology is destiny [TS]

00:17:15   right but but but the thing is though [TS]

00:17:18   now also then that's what the thing [TS]

00:17:20   inside of all of that those two changes [TS]

00:17:21   there's also just the fact that now you [TS]

00:17:22   know now that change is possible which [TS]

00:17:24   is like a weirdly risky new proposition [TS]

00:17:27   where is it used to be like think about [TS]

00:17:29   what you've been talking about fighting [TS]

00:17:30   all the time for years fighting becoming [TS]

00:17:33   calcified about music and culture and [TS]

00:17:35   you know since to stop being progressive [TS]

00:17:36   in thinking about ideas you don't want [TS]

00:17:38   to become somebody who's just like stuck [TS]

00:17:40   in their ways for lack of a better word [TS]

00:17:41   but it's also a little bit getting scary [TS]

00:17:43   maybe risky different because now [TS]

00:17:45   there's this whole world of [TS]

00:17:46   possibilities out there that unseat your [TS]

00:17:48   idea of being a blue ice cream cone and [TS]

00:17:51   now you have taken this new information [TS]

00:17:53   and you don't have security of just [TS]

00:17:55   being a big lard-ass [TS]

00:17:56   well that's precisely it and what I come [TS]

00:17:58   up against immediately or or almost [TS]

00:18:01   immediately after I began thinking about [TS]

00:18:03   this work new world of possibility is [TS]

00:18:08   that there is a hard wall at the end [TS]

00:18:12   which is mortality and so so I start to [TS]

00:18:17   think like well then I'll just get it [TS]

00:18:19   out get in the best shape of anybody and [TS]

00:18:21   i'll become immortal and I'll live [TS]

00:18:24   forever and I'll never get sick and I'll [TS]

00:18:26   never die and then then you go [TS]

00:18:28   well no you're actually still 45 but the [TS]

00:18:32   clock is ticking and you are decaying [TS]

00:18:34   right before your own eyes and doesn't [TS]

00:18:35   look as cool as you think like you know [TS]

00:18:37   you and I Jack LaLanne was pretty much [TS]

00:18:39   always an old guy in our lifetime and [TS]

00:18:42   one every year on his birthday [TS]

00:18:43   hey he do another like feet where you [TS]

00:18:46   know increasingly less like strictly [TS]

00:18:48   amazing feats like I'm gonna I'm gonna [TS]

00:18:50   pull this this locomotive with using [TS]

00:18:52   only the teeth of my mouth and then next [TS]

00:18:55   year is like pulling a toy train and [TS]

00:18:57   then you got that he's just able to hold [TS]

00:18:59   on to the bit you know and yes so [TS]

00:19:02   amazing feats but a lot of them involved [TS]

00:19:04   his teeth [TS]

00:19:05   this is just weird like that's how to [TS]

00:19:07   think you can make stronger real [TS]

00:19:09   but also every was there ever a point in [TS]

00:19:11   the like you know the 25 years that you [TS]

00:19:13   and I are aware of that was there ever a [TS]

00:19:14   point like god that guy sure is manly it [TS]

00:19:16   was more like all well yeah actually got [TS]

00:19:19   like all grandpa cool grandfather he's [TS]

00:19:21   trying both because I think he was four [TS]

00:19:23   foot eleven and also he was always [TS]

00:19:26   wearing that leotard he was or that full [TS]

00:19:29   body like high-waisted jumpsuits it was [TS]

00:19:32   real creepy and shiny creepy shiny jump [TS]

00:19:36   student and I never remember thinking [TS]

00:19:38   like Jack LaLanne that there's a guy he [TS]

00:19:40   kinda looks like george costanza's [TS]

00:19:42   father who at a buddy's like pulling a [TS]

00:19:45   locomotive with his teeth none of that [TS]

00:19:47   is something I aspire to even as a child [TS]

00:19:50   it's not like it's not like being like a [TS]

00:19:52   foxy seven-year-old limit [TS]

00:19:54   it's like mostly you're a 70 year old [TS]

00:19:55   woman nothing against but you know what [TS]

00:19:56   i mean like when you watch a claim you [TS]

00:19:58   go while he's pretty strong for an old [TS]

00:19:59   guy but mostly he's an old guy you don't [TS]

00:20:01   in his mind he is clinging you know [TS]

00:20:04   cling to youth and vitality and and [TS]

00:20:08   that's sprightliness that he's with so [TS]

00:20:09   no well no known for but like we mostly [TS]

00:20:12   just see somebody getting older and [TS]

00:20:13   older and fighting it [TS]

00:20:14   have you noticed this about I mean I I'm [TS]

00:20:17   feeling this way now watching Clint [TS]

00:20:18   Eastwood age and and like Harrison Ford [TS]

00:20:23   age and all those Hollywood stars that [TS]

00:20:28   were that were always much older than us [TS]

00:20:31   but they were in the our whole lives [TS]

00:20:35   they were kind of in their vital [TS]

00:20:36   middle-aged they were and they ma [TS]

00:20:39   persisted in it long past like when they [TS]

00:20:43   were 60 years old they were still and [TS]

00:20:45   they're all still like Robert Redford [TS]

00:20:47   that you know they were all still to use [TS]

00:20:49   that phrase and 76 symbols there are [TS]

00:20:51   still people we go Harrison Ford it's [TS]

00:20:53   creepy that is in this movie went with [TS]

00:20:54   Winona Ryder but he's definitely like a [TS]

00:20:56   handsome handsome yet jack nicholson I [TS]

00:20:58   mean these guys at 60 years old were [TS]

00:21:00   paired with 24 year-old actresses and it [TS]

00:21:03   wasn't a hundred percent cool but but it [TS]

00:21:06   also like use we still we still were [TS]

00:21:09   projecting a tremendous like a linear in [TS]

00:21:12   ashton kutcher or something I wasn't [TS]

00:21:13   something where you go that's kind of [TS]

00:21:15   strange but now watching them they are [TS]

00:21:18   like genuinely old people now [TS]

00:21:21   and it is reflected a like it [TS]

00:21:24   it reflects to me like watching watching [TS]

00:21:27   Clint Eastwood cut daughter around like [TS]

00:21:30   a like an end like a small end is making [TS]

00:21:35   me making me sad like melancholy yeah I [TS]

00:21:41   just a trailer for the new captain [TS]

00:21:42   america movie [TS]

00:21:43   Robert reference in it and you know he's [TS]

00:21:45   he's still a good-looking guy but he's [TS]

00:21:47   definitely an old guy now here I didn't [TS]

00:21:49   look at the Chippendale couch he and [TS]

00:21:55   like Harrison Ford was in that Jackie [TS]

00:21:57   Robinson movie and I can kind of didn't [TS]

00:22:00   recognize him at first really well i [TS]

00:22:02   mean i think he's definitely taking that [TS]

00:22:03   turn around the old lesbian look busy [TS]

00:22:06   no God no I just look at that website [TS]

00:22:09   the other day [TS]

00:22:10   oh my god what is it it's it's men who [TS]

00:22:13   look like old lesbians is that the site [TS]

00:22:16   oh my god I cannot see that pretty rude [TS]

00:22:18   but but I'm taking off your point but it [TS]

00:22:21   is there is definitely a certain point [TS]

00:22:23   you get a Robert Evans boy you [TS]

00:22:24   definitely got this is a point that we [TS]

00:22:26   look at people like wow you know that's [TS]

00:22:28   ok here's an example like George Clooney [TS]

00:22:29   George Clooney is still in extremely [TS]

00:22:31   handsome middle-aged guy Harrison Ford [TS]

00:22:34   was Harrison for 15 years older [TS]

00:22:36   something like that maybe no I think [TS]

00:22:37   he's in his seventies isn't it is that [TS]

00:22:39   right i heard say I clinics was getting [TS]

00:22:42   divorced she mentioned being his agent [TS]

00:22:43   divorced so sad [TS]

00:22:45   that's a lot of work when I just said [TS]

00:22:46   that when I just said I think he's in [TS]

00:22:48   the seventies I made that likes crunchy [TS]

00:22:50   scrunchy nose face this face [TS]

00:22:52   I know but i'll be up like a UK person [TS]

00:22:55   because it is 78 it's like kinda shows [TS]

00:22:59   up in the air like quickly knows I don't [TS]

00:23:01   know why I did it I never make this is [TS]

00:23:03   what is that I know exactly what she [TS]

00:23:04   does it mean when we do that [TS]

00:23:06   yeah it kinda gotta get your locker [TS]

00:23:07   Roberts ice is actually good secretary [TS]

00:23:10   it's like somebody handed you a kind of [TS]

00:23:12   kickbox candy you don't like ya got [TS]

00:23:15   cashews in it and then your nose goes up [TS]

00:23:18   and your teeth come out [TS]

00:23:19   yeah what about that one didn't know [TS]

00:23:21   that I was what what why that inspired [TS]

00:23:23   me to to suddenly turn into is something [TS]

00:23:25   weird like copperfield it is you even as [TS]

00:23:28   they turn into Chippendale furniture and [TS]

00:23:30   you know Robert rivers always had a [TS]

00:23:31   certain kind of ruggedness [TS]

00:23:32   you know complexion wise but I but there [TS]

00:23:36   is there is i don't know what happens [TS]

00:23:38   even if you'd like don't get plastic [TS]

00:23:39   surgery you do kind of start to look [TS]

00:23:40   like a woman you estrogen eyes a little [TS]

00:23:43   bit yeah well I you know the first time [TS]

00:23:46   I really saw that in inaction was one of [TS]

00:23:49   the first time I saw the psychedelic [TS]

00:23:51   furs right he said either click [TS]

00:23:54   somebody's grandmother it just looked [TS]

00:23:56   like you look like a skinny little [TS]

00:23:58   grandma and and I was so I'm so [TS]

00:24:01   astonished at the at the gender bender [TS]

00:24:05   eNOS of it because you know as a rock [TS]

00:24:07   star [TS]

00:24:08   you're always gender-bending but not [TS]

00:24:11   quite all the way to like I'm your [TS]

00:24:12   grandma you think its substance abuse [TS]

00:24:14   because you didn't anymore start to get [TS]

00:24:16   that Keith Moon as young as he was he [TS]

00:24:18   started to get that little bit i bet [TS]

00:24:20   it's I bet it's I bet it's riding hard [TS]

00:24:22   on the body partly i'm still astonished [TS]

00:24:25   at how young keith moon was when he died [TS]

00:24:27   and i'm amazed to see I once again i did [TS]

00:24:29   my my monthly viewing of a quick one [TS]

00:24:31   while he's away from the rock and roll [TS]

00:24:33   I want to look good i want you once a [TS]

00:24:35   month because it's the greatest rural [TS]

00:24:36   parts of all time and really and you [TS]

00:24:38   watch it and but I mean even when you [TS]

00:24:39   look at something like you watch you [TS]

00:24:41   know watching with the giant headphones [TS]

00:24:42   doing who are you [TS]

00:24:44   what's it like to and said he was like [TS]

00:24:48   32 or most incredible right look 60 [TS]

00:24:51   looks so I mean the he went it was funny [TS]

00:24:53   that like even around starting around [TS]

00:24:55   Tommy you know I don't know I think [TS]

00:24:59   maybe I know I keep Richard same thing [TS]

00:25:01   again [TS]

00:25:01   suddenly they just look different like [TS]

00:25:03   within a period like two years they look [TS]

00:25:04   like completely different people [TS]

00:25:06   yeah that's that's right but keep [TS]

00:25:09   continue to be I think gorgeous all the [TS]

00:25:11   way through 82 I mean through that whole [TS]

00:25:15   fifth that first initial period when he [TS]

00:25:17   was with a better at one point like [TS]

00:25:19   feathers in his hair and that was kinda [TS]

00:25:21   cool but like there's a point even when [TS]

00:25:22   they're like pretty popular where he [TS]

00:25:24   look like an old witch [TS]

00:25:25   yeah and then he started looking more [TS]

00:25:27   like a pirate he flushed out a little [TS]

00:25:29   bit yeah [TS]

00:25:30   Anakin looks like yours and jager [TS]

00:25:33   haha looks like a fucking slot such it [TS]

00:25:37   looks like a chariot that somebody [TS]

00:25:38   stepped out on a strike and yet maybe [TS]

00:25:42   he'll live forever I mean maybe he is [TS]

00:25:43   the one [TS]

00:25:44   yeah you think a lot of that from [TS]

00:25:45   smoking right there smoking give you [TS]

00:25:47   that kind of drawn look well and again [TS]

00:25:49   it's another that said it's a factor of [TS]

00:25:51   like it's a physiological factor of him [TS]

00:25:55   being literally five-foot-two he is so [TS]

00:25:59   small [TS]

00:26:00   all those guys in the rolling stones are [TS]

00:26:02   so small you know that you could put you [TS]

00:26:05   could put the entire rolling stones in a [TS]

00:26:06   pint glass and and then and then put [TS]

00:26:10   probably half a can of whipped cream in [TS]

00:26:14   into like half a spray canister whipped [TS]

00:26:17   cream and it wouldn't overflow the [TS]

00:26:19   pointless for their that small so they [TS]

00:26:23   were made you know I think the rolling [TS]

00:26:26   stones were like bread to chase rats [TS]

00:26:28   down holes or I mean they are different [TS]

00:26:30   almost a different kind of human being [TS]

00:26:33   from the lumbering like stone trolls [TS]

00:26:37   that were mine ancestors you're so [TS]

00:26:42   mythic I says here Keith Richards is 59 [TS]

00:26:46   but I'll bony below me think something [TS]

00:26:48   at least 59 in Prince boots [TS]

00:26:51   oh boy Ron would look at that guy [TS]

00:26:56   now he have you ever watched the videos [TS]

00:26:58   the youtube videos of run would onstage [TS]

00:27:02   like shit faced and now no I was in [TS]

00:27:05   small faces stuff but I've never seen [TS]

00:27:07   that now there's that there's some like [TS]

00:27:09   footage of him in the nineties i think [TS]

00:27:11   where he's on stage and he's just [TS]

00:27:14   pilotto and you even though he's one of [TS]

00:27:19   the richest and most successful [TS]

00:27:20   musicians in the world you want to you [TS]

00:27:23   can't help but feel sorry for him [TS]

00:27:24   because he is so dogged by his you know [TS]

00:27:29   by the by the feeling that like he's he [TS]

00:27:32   has to wake up and drink four bottles of [TS]

00:27:34   cognac a day because he has never known [TS]

00:27:37   anything different I mean I don't know [TS]

00:27:39   where he's at right now but there are [TS]

00:27:40   some videos on on the Internet of of Ron [TS]

00:27:43   Wood stumbling around and like just [TS]

00:27:46   I just don't find that as appealing as I [TS]

00:27:47   used to you know I can see how the like [TS]

00:27:51   I don't know [TS]

00:27:52   yeah i'm reading I know you're you're a [TS]

00:27:55   fan of these kinds of accounts to like [TS]

00:27:56   reading about the making of what's wrong [TS]

00:28:00   with rocks off the famous one of the [TS]

00:28:02   record of my stuff that's no no you know [TS]

00:28:05   that one the one the one where like a [TS]

00:28:08   with a French police were like trying to [TS]

00:28:10   like they were like rating keeps house [TS]

00:28:12   oh my god oh you're talking about you're [TS]

00:28:14   mad but did a double record of the why [TS]

00:28:18   did you do that you just you just do you [TS]

00:28:19   just tell you the record out of my mind [TS]

00:28:22   it was your mean streets it's a tumbling [TS]

00:28:26   dice its up so wow this is real Exile on [TS]

00:28:30   Main Street yes on you pushed it you [TS]

00:28:34   actually push that turd back in my brain [TS]

00:28:37   yeah i got the turtle back in the show I [TS]

00:28:39   had to like but we got two counts of [TS]

00:28:42   like to them trying to make that record [TS]

00:28:43   something for Charlie wat was always [TS]

00:28:45   like a pretty like a normal english guy [TS]

00:28:47   who drank tea and had a job playing [TS]

00:28:49   drums you know it just hasn't just been [TS]

00:28:51   miserable to be an environment like that [TS]

00:28:53   everybody's just all fucked up all the [TS]

00:28:55   time and how many did not make things [TS]

00:28:57   good no heroin is a bad drug but Charlie [TS]

00:29:00   I think rented a house like a hundred [TS]

00:29:02   and fifty miles again in central France [TS]

00:29:05   or something where he didn't speak any [TS]

00:29:07   French and he complained the whole time [TS]

00:29:08   that he couldn't get James T and yeah [TS]

00:29:11   it's just the I just picture him like [TS]

00:29:14   walking down to the corner store and and [TS]

00:29:17   saying the guy no Pimm's but it is there [TS]

00:29:20   like record in the basement I mean it [TS]

00:29:22   sounds like it's not like the whole [TS]

00:29:23   thing was just such a debacle it's [TS]

00:29:25   amazing the record turnout as well as it [TS]

00:29:26   did but I just don't know when your [TS]

00:29:28   account stuff like that when I was in [TS]

00:29:29   you know even in college I go wow that's [TS]

00:29:32   really cool it's you know to begin back [TS]

00:29:34   to desis on tits a decadent like you [TS]

00:29:36   just you sit around and you know you [TS]

00:29:38   make rock music in any like don't know [TS]

00:29:41   what day it is and man that is so [TS]

00:29:43   ridiculously unappealing this time to me [TS]

00:29:45   now i'm sure my wife feels ten times [TS]

00:29:47   more but I think I'll boy will be nice [TS]

00:29:48   to have a week to just go dick around [TS]

00:29:50   and not have to be anywhere but [TS]

00:29:51   man the idea of like sitting around [TS]

00:29:53   basement in France doing heroin is like [TS]

00:29:54   just not my idea of fun [TS]

00:29:56   yeah well I i come up against this all [TS]

00:29:59   the time because you know I haven't I [TS]

00:30:00   have not uh had like a substance like a [TS]

00:30:05   mind-altering substance I've not had any [TS]

00:30:08   alcohol or drugs in almost 20 years but [TS]

00:30:13   i have resolute lira fused to live in a [TS]

00:30:16   sober ghetto of life and so I spend [TS]

00:30:20   almost all my time around people who are [TS]

00:30:24   on drugs and some of my very good [TS]

00:30:27   friends are on drugs like lit like like [TS]

00:30:30   seriously like still on drugs not so [TS]

00:30:34   sure you shitting me [TS]

00:30:35   yeah not just like getting stoned [TS]

00:30:36   sometime just talking about drinking a [TS]

00:30:38   lot and smoking weed i'm talking about [TS]

00:30:39   drinking a lot and also taking drugs [TS]

00:30:43   serious drugs hard drugs and being a [TS]

00:30:45   drug drug person and being in denial [TS]

00:30:47   about what being a drug person means for [TS]

00:30:51   them [TS]

00:30:52   short-term and long-term I mean this is [TS]

00:30:54   true of some very close friends of mine [TS]

00:30:56   and also a lot of people that i know [TS]

00:30:59   socially and and so i'm i'm always in [TS]

00:31:03   the am [TS]

00:31:04   oh I'm almost every day I am confronted [TS]

00:31:07   with the question again like why are [TS]

00:31:13   people taking drugs do you [TS]

00:31:16   John want to go back on drugs like every [TS]

00:31:19   day I ask myself would you like to go [TS]

00:31:22   back on drugs right now [TS]

00:31:23   hey tried skinny jeans there are drugs [TS]

00:31:25   all around you all the time would you [TS]

00:31:27   are you interested in taking some drugs [TS]

00:31:29   and i took a lot of drugs so I don't [TS]

00:31:33   have us [TS]

00:31:34   I like when I quit drinking it was right [TS]

00:31:37   before the single-malt Scotch revolution [TS]

00:31:40   and the flavored alcohol the artisanal [TS]

00:31:44   alcohol scene so there are a lot of [TS]

00:31:47   alcohols that I missed out on you quit [TS]

00:31:50   you quit around like Rolling Rock [TS]

00:31:52   getting popular [TS]

00:31:53   yeah right i started i stopped drinking [TS]

00:31:55   alcohol in 1994 yeah and immediately [TS]

00:32:00   afterward [TS]

00:32:01   like you know wine snobbery was always a [TS]

00:32:03   thing but immediately it seems like [TS]

00:32:05   immediately afterward in the late [TS]

00:32:06   nineties it was all that whiskey talk [TS]

00:32:10   and all the like oh you've got to try [TS]

00:32:11   this it's from the barrel that is Sir [TS]

00:32:14   Walter Reilly once piston on his way to [TS]

00:32:16   and it's like a haha well you know I [TS]

00:32:19   drank a lot of whiskey and maybe it [TS]

00:32:21   wasn't great whiskey and a lot of times [TS]

00:32:24   it was still worst whiskey was ten hi [TS]

00:32:27   whiskey out of a gallon plastic jug but [TS]

00:32:30   I don't you know like i did not have [TS]

00:32:34   very much melancholy about not savoring [TS]

00:32:36   the great whiskey's you know but as far [TS]

00:32:39   as like pharmaceutical drugs go what to [TS]

00:32:44   whatever degree new technologies have [TS]

00:32:46   produced in new ways of feeling like [TS]

00:32:48   your hands are like two balloons [TS]

00:32:52   um I like there's there's no new high [TS]

00:32:56   that I feel like I missed out on except [TS]

00:32:58   maybe bath salts or what's that other [TS]

00:33:02   that that ship they smell sativa or you [TS]

00:33:06   smoked this stuff not sativa us i think [TS]

00:33:10   something some new suitor pot herbal [TS]

00:33:13   thing that you smoke and have like like [TS]

00:33:16   two minute long pcp hallucination God [TS]

00:33:21   and and yeah it's really it's really big [TS]

00:33:25   with it with a certain kind of william [TS]

00:33:27   gibson adoring cyberpunk always having a [TS]

00:33:30   special dispenser that clicks or [TS]

00:33:32   something [TS]

00:33:33   I you know that's the thing i think you [TS]

00:33:34   get a lot of people hooked on drugs it [TS]

00:33:36   was more like a silicate dick novel yeah [TS]

00:33:38   if you had a little like a subject some [TS]

00:33:40   kind of how many look like inhalers well [TS]

00:33:43   all drugs are headed toward inhaler [TS]

00:33:45   status i think now people are in hit [TS]

00:33:47   their inhaling their weed and we're just [TS]

00:33:49   gonna be we're just gonna it's gonna be [TS]

00:33:51   like dune where the where everybody [TS]

00:33:54   walked around the tube in their mouths [TS]

00:33:55   but in any case so every day I'm [TS]

00:33:58   confronted a new you know sometimes in [TS]

00:34:02   the company of people that I that I [TS]

00:34:04   don't just admire but a door [TS]

00:34:06   who at a certain point in the night our [TS]

00:34:09   are like fucked up [TS]

00:34:13   pinned eyeballs and Mike and and not [TS]

00:34:16   falling down but like not doing good but [TS]

00:34:19   like not in control of your faculties no [TS]

00:34:22   longer let's say no not a good [TS]

00:34:24   conversation it's no longer fun [TS]

00:34:26   yeah that it becomes it becomes a rescue [TS]

00:34:28   mission at a certain point like we got a [TS]

00:34:30   chopper this guy out of the LZ and [TS]

00:34:33   getting back to Saigon to triage at [TS]

00:34:36   saigon being like his or her apartment [TS]

00:34:38   where they're going to see what they're [TS]

00:34:40   gonna sit in front of the television [TS]

00:34:41   until they pass out and so but but but [TS]

00:34:44   i'm always reflecting internally like it [TS]

00:34:47   is there something about that that is [TS]

00:34:49   appealing to me do I pursue this anymore [TS]

00:34:53   even in my imagination why are my [TS]

00:34:56   friends even in middle age still so [TS]

00:34:59   attracted to this and it's it's not an [TS]

00:35:02   academic question because it comes up [TS]

00:35:06   over and over my relationships with [TS]

00:35:08   these people are hamstrung not because [TS]

00:35:11   there's a gulf between us because I [TS]

00:35:12   don't do drugs but because there's a [TS]

00:35:14   gulf between them and everyone [TS]

00:35:15   yeah because they are because they are [TS]

00:35:18   using these drugs as a substitute for [TS]

00:35:20   for you know for authentic feeling or [TS]

00:35:24   for growing like a certain point doesn't [TS]

00:35:26   matter what started out as a substitute [TS]

00:35:27   for because now it's the load-bearing [TS]

00:35:29   wall right exactly but this question of [TS]

00:35:32   like is it glam is keith richards [TS]

00:35:34   glamorous is is drug-taking glamorous [TS]

00:35:37   where is the glamour in X and when it [TS]

00:35:41   becomes you know what it transitions [TS]

00:35:43   from like I'm 22 [TS]

00:35:45   what are my limits to like I'm 42 and [TS]

00:35:50   this is my pattern up [TS]

00:35:54   I mean I don't like I say I see people [TS]

00:35:57   in all stages of being fucked up and the [TS]

00:36:01   and I don't and I know what it feels [TS]

00:36:03   like from inside and I honestly don't [TS]

00:36:05   understand how it retains this hold on [TS]

00:36:08   people beyond just the [TS]

00:36:11   like the physical need that manifests [TS]

00:36:14   itself in their minds as an emotional [TS]

00:36:17   need you know I was watching this [TS]

00:36:19   special the other day [TS]

00:36:20   Trey Parker and Matt Stone went to the [TS]

00:36:23   oscars in those dresses remember that no [TS]

00:36:26   15 years ago or something that they were [TS]

00:36:29   they were dresses to the Oscars and [TS]

00:36:31   music music it was in all the it was on [TS]

00:36:33   the third page of every newspaper but [TS]

00:36:36   they were on LSD [TS]

00:36:37   oh yeah and-and-and I was watching the [TS]

00:36:41   there was kind of a little bit of [TS]

00:36:43   footage of them like on the wrist on the [TS]

00:36:46   red carpet it like and clearly tripping [TS]

00:36:49   balls and I look at that and I go okay [TS]

00:36:54   that is that's pretty cool that's the [TS]

00:36:56   thing to have done it would be cool to [TS]

00:36:58   have gone to the Oscars on LSD but even [TS]

00:37:03   even that I mean watching them standing [TS]

00:37:06   there and like their eyes bugging out [TS]

00:37:07   and and their their mouths really dry [TS]

00:37:11   and then knowing that they were that the [TS]

00:37:15   joke was going to wear off when they [TS]

00:37:16   went in and had to sit in a chair for [TS]

00:37:18   two two-and-a-half hours or four hours [TS]

00:37:20   or however long sit in a chair [TS]

00:37:21   surrounded by a monster lizard people is [TS]

00:37:26   really it's better to close it it might [TS]

00:37:32   take away was like even that kinda is [TS]

00:37:34   only cool to have done it wasn't [TS]

00:37:38   probably even cool to you by the way I [TS]

00:37:40   think about I never thought about this [TS]

00:37:42   till just now but i think if i look at [TS]

00:37:45   the way that I dealt with substances [TS]

00:37:48   when I was younger I would have said [TS]

00:37:49   this at the time but think about with [TS]

00:37:52   most people just think about like even [TS]

00:37:53   if you're dumb frat-boy think about all [TS]

00:37:54   the competition about drinking and like [TS]

00:37:57   who's gonna drink more or who can who [TS]

00:37:59   can usually like going to not pass out [TS]

00:38:00   but even in my own case like in a way I [TS]

00:38:03   i think it was me like facing down [TS]

00:38:06   facing down the substances like I could [TS]

00:38:09   I could do a lot of this i could take a [TS]

00:38:11   lot of that and what is that every [TS]

00:38:13   Cheryl relationship that frenemy [TS]

00:38:15   relationship with substances that made [TS]

00:38:18   it fun because it is really no fun to [TS]

00:38:20   get your ass kicked by you know taking [TS]

00:38:23   way too much of something [TS]

00:38:24   but you can have a fun adversarial [TS]

00:38:27   relationship with weed where you keep [TS]

00:38:29   pushing it as far as you can until [TS]

00:38:30   you're almost a crazy person and that's [TS]

00:38:32   fun for a while it's just that I think [TS]

00:38:35   at some i'm gonna guess that some [TS]

00:38:38   certain point it stops being a social [TS]

00:38:41   thing and it stops being something where [TS]

00:38:43   you're a worthy opponent and then the [TS]

00:38:47   substance starttswinning and you sort of [TS]

00:38:49   our slumped in the backseat while the [TS]

00:38:50   substance drives in some ways where you [TS]

00:38:53   know when you're young like you might [TS]

00:38:55   want to say all man I've trip and really [TS]

00:38:56   hard this is really really great i hope [TS]

00:38:58   it'll trip anymore i'm gonna lose my [TS]

00:38:59   mind but then as you get older I mean [TS]

00:39:02   that becomes more about if you like a [TS]

00:39:04   habit it's a company unfortunate choice [TS]

00:39:06   of words but something that you start [TS]

00:39:08   doing a lot i don't think it has that [TS]

00:39:10   same spirit anymore i think i think it's [TS]

00:39:12   become something that you do so much and [TS]

00:39:14   so often that it becomes the equivalent [TS]

00:39:16   of a vitamin or of reading the paper or [TS]

00:39:19   something or you know or a coffee [TS]

00:39:20   whatever it is but I i know i don't feel [TS]

00:39:22   that I think when i hear something like [TS]

00:39:24   oh man can imagine going on having a [TS]

00:39:25   week-long binge and just call my god no [TS]

00:39:28   i can't imagine that making you want to [TS]

00:39:30   take a nap just hearing it right now [TS]

00:39:32   yeah and and but I didn't that make [TS]

00:39:34   sense because it seems to me that that [TS]

00:39:36   was at least some cum component of your [TS]

00:39:38   of your deal was that facing it down and [TS]

00:39:42   like you're not gonna you're not gonna [TS]

00:39:43   kick my ass buddy i'm gonna kick your [TS]

00:39:44   ass like you're going to have to knock [TS]

00:39:46   me out you think you can take me alcohol [TS]

00:39:48   you're gonna have to knock me out you [TS]

00:39:50   know name and alcohol very seldom could [TS]

00:39:52   knock me out exactly and that's that's [TS]

00:39:53   what yeah but don't have an element part [TS]

00:39:57   of it i always think of it as a as a [TS]

00:39:59   dance with the feeling and I mean those [TS]

00:40:03   those are early experiences with drugs [TS]

00:40:07   were this tremendously powerful and [TS]

00:40:09   positive dance with feeling because as a [TS]

00:40:13   young person my emotions were all [TS]

00:40:16   completely walled off and i did not have [TS]

00:40:19   a way of expressing joy or fear even or [TS]

00:40:23   I mean at all emotions got channeled [TS]

00:40:26   into either depression or you know that [TS]

00:40:32   the sort of this kind of equilibrium [TS]

00:40:35   or like like a surface sarcasm sarcasm [TS]

00:40:41   was was my positive emotion and [TS]

00:40:42   depressive repression was my negative 1 [TS]

00:40:45   when I discovered these drugs it was so [TS]

00:40:48   exciting because I had a I had a I had a [TS]

00:40:50   relationship with feeling all of a [TS]

00:40:51   sudden and you could drink three bottles [TS]

00:40:55   and James and be loved and suddenly be [TS]

00:41:00   available to people and be in a room and [TS]

00:41:04   feel like I feel like a new relationship [TS]

00:41:08   to positive feelings and then also a [TS]

00:41:13   one-legged a nuanced relationship with [TS]

00:41:16   negative feelings and so those that [TS]

00:41:18   those early experiences are so we're so [TS]

00:41:20   amazing to me because like you could [TS]

00:41:21   acknowledge the negativity without [TS]

00:41:23   becoming too involved in it Ryder I [TS]

00:41:25   didn't you know I yeah I guess a little [TS]

00:41:26   bit of temporary distance from something [TS]

00:41:28   that used to be consuming yeah I could [TS]

00:41:30   or i could yell at my friend about some [TS]

00:41:33   things that he was doing that I that [TS]

00:41:36   during normal working hours i would just [TS]

00:41:38   I would never confront him up just I [TS]

00:41:41   would stare at the floor and he would [TS]

00:41:42   stare at the floor and but as time went [TS]

00:41:46   on you know I picture myself at 23 years [TS]

00:41:51   old up on a couch with my 25th beer in [TS]

00:41:56   my hand and a pot pipe in my other hand [TS]

00:41:59   and a tip of chewing tobacco in my lip [TS]

00:42:04   and a cigarette burning in the ashtray [TS]

00:42:06   and an eighth of mushrooms wearing off [TS]

00:42:10   in LA and I'm thinking okay I've gotta I [TS]

00:42:15   and all know it's done what is right and [TS]

00:42:19   then I'm sitting there like just about [TS]

00:42:21   the need something I need a shot of [TS]

00:42:23   tequila like it's a graphic it's like an [TS]

00:42:25   11 band equalizer involving your mind [TS]

00:42:28   like yeah you're just weak the little [TS]

00:42:29   that's right feel like I'm laying on [TS]

00:42:31   this couch and I've got a I've got a [TS]

00:42:32   shield on me and then I've got a garbage [TS]

00:42:35   can lid on top of that and then a [TS]

00:42:37   blanket and then a one of those silver [TS]

00:42:40   blankets that keeps you warm in winter [TS]

00:42:42   and then a big sign that says you know [TS]

00:42:45   don't touch like how many layers [TS]

00:42:48   of protection against feeling do I need [TS]

00:42:51   at a certain point like a like feeling [TS]

00:42:53   at be having using drugs to reveal [TS]

00:42:58   feeling to myself and to reveal myself [TS]

00:43:02   to feeling then I wasn't that what what [TS]

00:43:06   what alcohol and drugs don't do is equip [TS]

00:43:09   you to incorporate real feeling into [TS]

00:43:13   your life and so then those feelings [TS]

00:43:17   become overwhelming but you're not [TS]

00:43:20   developing skills to incorporate them or [TS]

00:43:25   grow in those feelings and so then [TS]

00:43:27   you're surrounded by intense feelings [TS]

00:43:29   you can't incorporate and then you're [TS]

00:43:32   just trying to protect yourself against [TS]

00:43:36   your feelings and as time went on [TS]

00:43:39   i'm i'm i'm on this couch under the [TS]

00:43:42   weight of 25 garbage can lids just [TS]

00:43:46   trying to keep the just trying to feel [TS]

00:43:49   safe you know and what what the fuck was [TS]

00:43:52   that dipper chewing tobacco supposed to [TS]

00:43:54   do like I'm so fucked up I can I can't [TS]

00:43:58   put lift my feet up on the coffee table [TS]

00:43:59   but I'm like I needed to I just you know [TS]

00:44:02   what the chiz gonna even me out like the [TS]

00:44:05   chair and I've got my boring I'm already [TS]

00:44:06   smoking a cigarette and I output a dip [TS]

00:44:09   in just to like who [TS]

00:44:11   that's things going to cut the all about [TS]

00:44:15   feeling part that's interesting [TS]

00:44:16   yeah but and as time goes on when you [TS]

00:44:18   get to be 40 years old and you have been [TS]

00:44:20   you've been using drugs and alcohol as [TS]

00:44:23   your as your substitution for feeling or [TS]

00:44:28   as your proxy for your actual feelings [TS]

00:44:31   or as your compressor limiter for [TS]

00:44:33   feeling compressor limiter for feelings [TS]

00:44:35   you know it starts to get you start to [TS]

00:44:38   get scared and I think it happens a lot [TS]

00:44:40   lot lot before you're forty I mean you [TS]

00:44:45   start to get scared pretty early because [TS]

00:44:47   you don't have another you don't have [TS]

00:44:50   another way of of of compressing and [TS]

00:44:53   limiting feelings and so consequently [TS]

00:44:56   they feel like maybe they are on maybe [TS]

00:44:58   they have unlimited power [TS]

00:45:00   and if you don't have these things to [TS]

00:45:02   tamp them down or just to look at them [TS]

00:45:03   through maybe they will may be unleashed [TS]

00:45:08   they will poison you or destroy you this [TS]

00:45:10   in the second they get the chance that's [TS]

00:45:12   what it feels like you know you feel [TS]

00:45:14   like oh my god these feelings are going [TS]

00:45:17   to overwhelm me and without you know [TS]

00:45:20   without my like garbage can lids I'm [TS]

00:45:26   just I'm just in a lie can just a naked [TS]

00:45:29   scallop just pulsating on the beach [TS]

00:45:31   waiting for the Siegel of feelings to [TS]

00:45:36   pluck me from my shell I used to really [TS]

00:45:41   like i got is planning on sticking the [TS]

00:45:45   other day of the guy i had this this [TS]

00:45:46   feeling in this thought that I did not [TS]

00:45:48   want to acknowledge but I I'm guess I'm [TS]

00:45:51   acknowledging it now by saying it is I [TS]

00:45:54   used to I used to completely poopoo what [TS]

00:45:57   people would say about you know all the [TS]

00:45:59   kind of scare stuff in the 60s [TS]

00:46:00   especially about what psychedelics with [TS]

00:46:02   do you know how would fry your brain and [TS]

00:46:04   and all that kind of stuff and you know [TS]

00:46:06   I with that said I I knew enough people [TS]

00:46:09   at my college who did ecstasy every [TS]

00:46:11   weekend to see that it didn't take more [TS]

00:46:12   than a few months of doing ecstasy every [TS]

00:46:14   weekend to be a really different person [TS]

00:46:16   uh-huh [TS]

00:46:17   like I don't need to do a spinal tap I'm [TS]

00:46:19   just here to tell you that you're really [TS]

00:46:20   you're really you've gotten real goofy [TS]

00:46:22   like a person but there's I the other [TS]

00:46:24   day I was just sitting there and [TS]

00:46:25   thinking and i'm like done I'm having a [TS]

00:46:27   lot of really exotic stuff ain't no it [TS]

00:46:31   was all really mostly over for your auto [TS]

00:46:35   asphyxiation ya got a special Marc Maron [TS]

00:46:38   belt I I am I you know what it is i was [TS]

00:46:42   thinking well I guess what I was [TS]

00:46:44   thinking was I wonder I wonder in my [TS]

00:46:45   heart of hearts if problems i ever have [TS]

00:46:47   with all the seven dwarves of bad [TS]

00:46:50   emotions you know of like of all the [TS]

00:46:52   anxiety fear worry [TS]

00:46:54   uh I i always wonder whether there's [TS]

00:46:57   things about my cognition that got [TS]

00:46:59   thrown arm off of true [TS]

00:47:03   bye-bye second docks and I never want to [TS]

00:47:05   think about it i believe it's not i [TS]

00:47:06   don't feel like racked or anything like [TS]

00:47:07   that but I do think about that because I [TS]

00:47:10   that's what I enjoyed the feeling stuff [TS]

00:47:12   she [TS]

00:47:13   or for me but more I loved just having a [TS]

00:47:16   sense of humor that I've got and having [TS]

00:47:17   the did I don't know just the dark the [TS]

00:47:20   dark inner world that I've got there [TS]

00:47:22   would be things about tripping and [TS]

00:47:24   thinking about high school and how [TS]

00:47:25   stupid something was that just let me [TS]

00:47:28   know when I smoke pot to laugh at stuff [TS]

00:47:30   yeah not so much for feeling but there [TS]

00:47:32   was something about being able to [TS]

00:47:33   reframe an event and think of it a [TS]

00:47:36   different way I'm obviously start [TS]

00:47:37   laughing really stupid Stephanie that's [TS]

00:47:38   what I loved but that's what I working [TS]

00:47:40   well I wonder if my sights got knocked [TS]

00:47:43   off to the left to the right a little [TS]

00:47:44   too much from those days everyone giving [TS]

00:47:47   wonder about that well and I think it i [TS]

00:47:49   think i think when i say feelings I mean [TS]

00:47:51   that yet using the drugs to get to that [TS]

00:47:57   to get to that place of two even the [TS]

00:48:00   lightheartedness or the the vision of [TS]

00:48:03   the world that that the that the drugs [TS]

00:48:07   provide like it I i still feel like it's [TS]

00:48:10   all in the language of feelings you know [TS]

00:48:13   or in the language of like translating [TS]

00:48:15   your thoughts and feelings into into [TS]

00:48:18   like up like a thing that you can [TS]

00:48:24   approximate the thing that you can [TS]

00:48:25   handle and I mean I i still have I guess [TS]

00:48:31   what I what I could only describe as [TS]

00:48:33   flashbacks in the sense that I i revisit [TS]

00:48:37   the thing that I only ever saw or only [TS]

00:48:40   ever felt under psychedelic so I don't [TS]

00:48:43   feel like it's a flashback like oh the [TS]

00:48:45   choppers you know yeah like the song I [TS]

00:48:48   mean that all that vehicle stuff that I [TS]

00:48:50   see is in real time and it's happening [TS]

00:48:52   now but the but like you know those [TS]

00:48:55   moments where you realize through [TS]

00:48:57   psychedelics like how how small and [TS]

00:49:00   inane human endeavor is but also how [TS]

00:49:05   like how beautiful and how koyaanisqatsi [TS]

00:49:09   it is that that stuff still happens and [TS]

00:49:13   i'll still see a certain cast of light [TS]

00:49:15   that kind of excites the excites that [TS]

00:49:18   part of my brain but I don't feel like I [TS]

00:49:20   was broken or even even bent out of true [TS]

00:49:25   so much as well buy drugs as much as I [TS]

00:49:33   was by the by the punishment that I [TS]

00:49:38   inflicted on myself during those years [TS]

00:49:40   you know I didn't need to punish myself [TS]

00:49:42   so hard and it made me a different [TS]

00:49:45   person by virtue of just the i don't [TS]

00:49:51   think i have like a cacao our reaction [TS]

00:49:55   it's kind of the opposite you know I [TS]

00:49:57   like lead with my nose yeah but-but-but [TS]

00:50:01   that whole business of scheduling drugs [TS]

00:50:04   like and I and I see this all the time [TS]

00:50:06   particularly now that that pot is legal [TS]

00:50:08   in Washington State this this huge [TS]

00:50:11   advocacy that people feel that pot is a [TS]

00:50:15   medicine or that it's a sacrament or [TS]

00:50:20   that it you know Potter's is better than [TS]

00:50:23   alcohol but worse than cigarettes but [TS]

00:50:28   maybe better than cigarettes or that LSD [TS]

00:50:31   is dangerous in San Francisco you can [TS]

00:50:33   smoke pot a lot more places and [TS]

00:50:34   cigarettes [TS]

00:50:35   well yeah and now I mean there are [TS]

00:50:37   people that would never smoke a [TS]

00:50:39   cigarette that are smoking pot of [TS]

00:50:41   up-and-down well in somebody's house [TS]

00:50:42   like it's not unusual to be at a party [TS]

00:50:44   and somebody's park city boy you light [TS]

00:50:46   up a cigarette right there throwing the [TS]

00:50:48   fireplace yeah but but for me like I I [TS]

00:50:52   never there was a while where I felt [TS]

00:50:54   just socially the where we all get [TS]

00:51:00   pressured into thinking of drugs on a on [TS]

00:51:03   a schedule and heroin and crack or [TS]

00:51:07   somehow way out in the distance and pot [TS]

00:51:10   okay and aspirin are up here in the [TS]

00:51:15   foreground and this whole gateway drug [TS]

00:51:19   idea but for me personally like I have [TS]

00:51:27   I i tried all those drugs and had a kind [TS]

00:51:31   of profound experience with each one of [TS]

00:51:33   them and they each have a kind of [TS]

00:51:35   magical piece of the puzzle to deliver [TS]

00:51:38   and i have watched people suffer under [TS]

00:51:44   all those drugs and the people that I [TS]

00:51:47   know in their forties who are laboring [TS]

00:51:49   under their marijuana addiction are at [TS]

00:51:54   just as much a disadvantage as the [TS]

00:51:57   people i know in their forties who are [TS]

00:51:59   still heroin addicts and are managing [TS]

00:52:01   that problem that's been the pot people [TS]

00:52:03   are like God love them they're [TS]

00:52:05   surrounded by other people who are more [TS]

00:52:08   than happy to agree with them about how [TS]

00:52:09   like getting really stoned a couple [TS]

00:52:12   times a day is just didn't really you [TS]

00:52:15   find a lot of commonality or comedy you [TS]

00:52:18   know I mean like meeting other people [TS]

00:52:19   like that you kind of check each other [TS]

00:52:21   on the shoulder and garlic [TS]

00:52:22   it's cool that we get really wasted like [TS]

00:52:23   at least once a day and that becomes [TS]

00:52:26   that becomes totally normal and then you [TS]

00:52:28   surround yourself with that and that [TS]

00:52:29   becomes I don't mean to sound judgey [TS]

00:52:31   but like i just had met some people that [TS]

00:52:33   just it seems like they're in a constant [TS]

00:52:34   stupor and don't have any way to realize [TS]

00:52:36   that they're in a constant super well [TS]

00:52:38   i'm particularly like over the course of [TS]

00:52:40   20 years of smoking pot when when like [TS]

00:52:43   like any drug or like any food if pot is [TS]

00:52:46   both the reward for a job well done and [TS]

00:52:49   a good day and pot is also the [TS]

00:52:52   consolation for a bad day then what pot [TS]

00:52:57   is what you are doing instead of having [TS]

00:53:01   feelings what you are doing instead of [TS]

00:53:03   sitting there and thinking about what [TS]

00:53:04   happened today and feeling those [TS]

00:53:07   feelings again and processing it and [TS]

00:53:09   growing right at the pot is at least [TS]

00:53:13   interjecting itself where you are [TS]

00:53:15   intersecting it in between your real [TS]

00:53:18   lived experience and the very necessary [TS]

00:53:21   sort of proto dreaming that we all need [TS]

00:53:25   to do at the end of the day words like [TS]

00:53:26   today was a bad day i had a bad day [TS]

00:53:28   today and i don't i'm not going to watch [TS]

00:53:31   TV right now I'm not going to have a hit [TS]

00:53:35   of pot or a glass of wine i'm going to [TS]

00:53:37   sit here for a minute and i'm just going [TS]

00:53:39   to reflect on what [TS]

00:53:40   and down and if if you're not doing that [TS]

00:53:43   then you then you are in a kind of [TS]

00:53:48   whirlpool where you're just going back [TS]

00:53:51   out the next day and hoping that it [TS]

00:53:53   doesn't happen again but you're not [TS]

00:53:54   you're not you're not reflecting you're [TS]

00:53:58   introducing another element into the [TS]

00:54:00   reflection that is supposed to you know [TS]

00:54:05   that you say to yourself is calming you [TS]

00:54:07   or is making in that glass of wine is [TS]

00:54:10   necessary to unwind at the end of the [TS]

00:54:13   day and it's like really is unwinding [TS]

00:54:15   what you need to be doing or do you need [TS]

00:54:18   to be like wondering what you know like [TS]

00:54:22   wondering what happened and and and what [TS]

00:54:25   to do differently so I I feel like like [TS]

00:54:30   I I know a guy in Seattle who runs a [TS]

00:54:32   multimillion-dollar enterprise and every [TS]

00:54:37   day he gets up in the morning and he [TS]

00:54:40   makes a bunch of business decisions that [TS]

00:54:41   are that keep his business going and [TS]

00:54:45   keep the and keep the money coming in [TS]

00:54:48   and then he goes out to lunch and by two [TS]

00:54:52   o'clock in the afternoon he has had a [TS]

00:54:55   handful of pills four lines off the back [TS]

00:54:58   of a toilet he spent six hundred dollars [TS]

00:55:01   at lunch and consume two bottles of [TS]

00:55:04   something and then he goes back to work [TS]

00:55:07   Wow and from a contact high bottom [TS]

00:55:10   sometimes very very high vada clock to [TS]

00:55:14   six o'clock he continues to make [TS]

00:55:16   business decisions right but now he is [TS]

00:55:20   he is basically undoing the work he does [TS]

00:55:23   every morning and somehow he makes it [TS]

00:55:25   you know like somehow he gets to the end [TS]

00:55:26   of the day and he is like little is some [TS]

00:55:30   wine and unwind after that [TS]

00:55:31   yeah a little bit of white on wine he's [TS]

00:55:33   borderline date raping his assistant is [TS]

00:55:36   like everybody in the town is like this [TS]

00:55:39   guy [TS]

00:55:40   oh my god like somebody stop him but of [TS]

00:55:42   course nobody can and because he's a [TS]

00:55:45   millionaire [TS]

00:55:46   everybody's just like well you know he [TS]

00:55:48   is a millionaire [TS]

00:55:49   he is he does make it work somehow [TS]

00:55:51   and what for whatever however this guy's [TS]

00:55:54   metabolism works everything about it so [TS]

00:55:55   they kind of grudging admiration [TS]

00:55:58   well never seriously I mean we go wow [TS]

00:56:00   that I mean it hasn't fallen apart yet [TS]

00:56:02   right but also a kind of a kind of fear [TS]

00:56:04   that's in everybody of like well I want [TS]

00:56:06   you know it's one thing to confront a [TS]

00:56:07   guy who is who is that is vomiting on [TS]

00:56:11   himself on the sidewalk in front of the [TS]

00:56:13   bar but it's another thing to confront a [TS]

00:56:15   guy who's being helped into his limo by [TS]

00:56:18   his two assistants especially if you and [TS]

00:56:22   I can't afford a limo it yeah right you [TS]

00:56:25   seem like you know ungraceful to to [TS]

00:56:27   point that out say like hey you know [TS]

00:56:30   what all these you know this limo and [TS]

00:56:32   these two assistants and all these drugs [TS]

00:56:33   are just garbage can lids that you're [TS]

00:56:35   piling on top of yourself on the couch [TS]

00:56:37   and maybe you should have a chew depart [TS]

00:56:38   hit neck neck be two people should take [TS]

00:56:41   it too because that's really gonna take [TS]

00:56:42   the edge off but you know i mean there [TS]

00:56:46   isn't it there it by the same token you [TS]

00:56:49   know I look at him and I know he's [TS]

00:56:50   running a business at a level that that [TS]

00:56:53   escapes me [TS]

00:56:54   do not get up at five o'clock in the [TS]

00:56:56   morning and make six hours of really [TS]

00:56:57   super good business decisions before [TS]

00:56:59   taking my first like a handful of [TS]

00:57:03   percocets [TS]

00:57:04   I I got up this morning and drank coffee [TS]

00:57:07   out of a beer mug in the bathtub reading [TS]

00:57:10   about Sandra Bullock haven't had a [TS]

00:57:12   hadn't haven't had a single sex crime [TS]

00:57:14   all day not i said i have not I have not [TS]

00:57:16   made an assistant feel weird about [TS]

00:57:21   herself [TS]

00:57:23   I'll in 40 now yeah you're really [TS]

00:57:25   limiting yourself and i think when i [TS]

00:57:29   don't know i don't say when it's younger [TS]

00:57:31   when you're younger but I i think [TS]

00:57:32   there's there if if you're going to try [TS]

00:57:34   and summarize a lot of what makes people [TS]

00:57:39   on accidentally doing toxicants it has [TS]

00:57:43   something to do with what i would call [TS]

00:57:45   the possibilities of self when you're [TS]

00:57:48   very young I think it's hard to really [TS]

00:57:50   understand all the possibilities of self [TS]

00:57:52   for better or for worse and in your case [TS]

00:57:54   that might make you feel less inhibited [TS]

00:57:56   to say something or feel something or to [TS]

00:57:59   be aware of a feeling that you have [TS]

00:58:00   that's a certain kind of possibility of [TS]

00:58:02   self but i mean i think pretty much all [TS]

00:58:04   the drugs [TS]

00:58:05   and we're talking about have those [TS]

00:58:07   qualities to them where you know if you [TS]

00:58:10   do a whole bunch of blow i'm given to [TS]

00:58:11   believe your possibilities of self can [TS]

00:58:13   seem extremely ambitious you feel pretty [TS]

00:58:16   good about the future pretty selfie in [TS]

00:58:19   the first 10 minutes after you do a [TS]

00:58:21   bunch of below if you like the futures [TS]

00:58:23   pretty but everything in my case you [TS]

00:58:25   know LSD could show me possibilities [TS]

00:58:28   itself that I would have had access to [TS]

00:58:30   in such a you know incontrovertible like [TS]

00:58:33   bald way like wow this I feel like I can [TS]

00:58:36   see this thing with this clarity that I [TS]

00:58:37   couldn't before [TS]

00:58:38   absolute so I mean I don't know when [TS]

00:58:40   that turns into something that becomes [TS]

00:58:41   problematic but I mean I think like [TS]

00:58:43   you're getting at i'm not i'm not in any [TS]

00:58:46   way trying to be like a what a prude [TS]

00:58:48   it's just it like I'm really in some [TS]

00:58:50   ways I'm really glad that I had a safe [TS]

00:58:52   place to fuck around with those [TS]

00:58:55   possibilities of self for a small amount [TS]

00:58:58   of time [TS]

00:58:59   yeah and i'm glad i didn't keep trying [TS]

00:59:02   to figure that out too much too often [TS]

00:59:04   too much [TS]

00:59:06   well this is for 20 more years about [TS]

00:59:08   trying to trying to come up with a like [TS]

00:59:10   a a cool drug policy for the future [TS]

00:59:15   because I I really do believe that [TS]

00:59:18   everybody who is curious should try [TS]

00:59:22   every drug and and should try every drug [TS]

00:59:28   more than once but there but there is a [TS]

00:59:32   moment where you are with every single [TS]

00:59:36   drug chasing the dragon and trying to [TS]

00:59:40   recapture the feeling that you that you [TS]

00:59:43   had you know and with with LSD if you [TS]

00:59:47   took LSD a couple of times a week for a [TS]

00:59:50   whole summer you would have a whole [TS]

00:59:54   variety of experiences and it would be [TS]

00:59:55   mind-expanding and and I think I [TS]

00:59:55   mind-expanding and and I think I [TS]

01:00:00   would be an overall net positive for you [TS]

01:00:02   but at the end of the summer you would [TS]

01:00:05   already start to feel like oh this trip [TS]

01:00:10   isn't getting me to that to the place [TS]

01:00:13   that some of those trips in mid-summer [TS]

01:00:16   did you know and with cocaine and with [TS]

01:00:20   mushrooms and with MDMA and heroin even [TS]

01:00:26   like all certainly crack like you do it [TS]

01:00:32   the first time and you're like holy [TS]

01:00:34   mother of god and then the second time [TS]

01:00:37   it's like you cannot believe you're [TS]

01:00:39   there again and there and that that [TS]

01:00:43   climb its it doesn't fall off [TS]

01:00:46   immediately like that you keep climbing [TS]

01:00:48   and that's the fifth time you do it it's [TS]

01:00:50   like that's why the fifth time you do it [TS]

01:00:54   you have a tendency to think i have [TS]

01:00:56   found my new band right like that moment [TS]

01:00:59   that I had really high when i was [TS]

01:01:01   driving around Anchorage with my friend [TS]

01:01:02   Peter and I said and we were listening [TS]

01:01:05   to thick as a brick and I said you know [TS]

01:01:08   what [TS]

01:01:08   Jethro tall is going to be my new band [TS]

01:01:11   i'm going to go down the Jethro Tull fan [TS]

01:01:14   hole and and that's going to set me [TS]

01:01:19   apart because there aren't a lot of [TS]

01:01:20   jethro tull fans that I know that are [TS]

01:01:22   like deep deep fans and it's going to be [TS]

01:01:25   me Jethro Tull is gonna be my band Peter [TS]

01:01:27   was like I don't know that our druids or [TS]

01:01:29   Wiccans yeah he was like I don't know [TS]

01:01:31   man are you sure about that and I was [TS]

01:01:32   like I'm and we were both pretty pretty [TS]

01:01:34   wasted and i said i'm pretty sure that [TS]

01:01:36   Jethro at all like speaks to me in this [TS]

01:01:38   way and then of course the next day I [TS]

01:01:41   was like oh my god what was I think [TS]

01:01:42   throat old can't be my band but you know [TS]

01:01:45   everybody has that experience on the [TS]

01:01:47   scene of the fifth time they do a drug [TS]

01:01:48   was just like this is my thing this is [TS]

01:01:50   my jam who and almost immediately after [TS]

01:01:53   that you start getting it's diminishing [TS]

01:01:55   returns [TS]

01:01:57   so how we could approach drugs as a [TS]

01:02:00   culture and say like listen it's like [TS]

01:02:03   room Springer [TS]

01:02:04   her at a certain point you you leave the [TS]

01:02:08   village and you go on your drug odyssey [TS]

01:02:11   because I meet people all the time who [TS]

01:02:13   say I have never taken a drug and I go [TS]

01:02:16   all really [TS]

01:02:18   Jesus man you should try some drugs [TS]

01:02:21   their astonishing la don't start now [TS]

01:02:24   that be what a bummer [TS]

01:02:25   you really should have 20 years ago yeah [TS]

01:02:27   but even like a 40 year old who's never [TS]

01:02:28   taken LSD it's like okay I don't think [TS]

01:02:31   you should take LSD and get on the [TS]

01:02:33   subway by yourself [TS]

01:02:34   yeah but if you went out to the beach [TS]

01:02:36   with I worry about my neuroplasticity [TS]

01:02:38   John is that right you think you think [TS]

01:02:40   it would you think it might actually zap [TS]

01:02:43   you [TS]

01:02:43   I mean I've known some people that one [TS]

01:02:45   guy in particular that LSD ruined his [TS]

01:02:48   life and turned him into a startling [TS]

01:02:51   schizophrenia like chicken pox like [TS]

01:02:53   gonna do before your 35 there's gonna be [TS]

01:02:55   problems that's my guess you think you [TS]

01:02:56   would come back from a trip and just be [TS]

01:02:58   like little bit yeah [TS]

01:03:00   Baron know I don't know I mean I just I [TS]

01:03:03   just my body and my I would like to [TS]

01:03:07   think my i'll be an unformed mind I I [TS]

01:03:10   definitely have more plasticity and more [TS]

01:03:12   bounce back in general so I mean I don't [TS]

01:03:14   know I'm not send the transit to decide [TS]

01:03:15   people that did the joy and really [TS]

01:03:17   terror of LSD haha [TS]

01:03:21   listen have you have you not experience [TS]

01:03:23   the terror of LSD might just correct you [TS]

01:03:27   terrified you should be terrified at the [TS]

01:03:29   Oscars or disney world it's really fun [TS]

01:03:31   I do fear that the the the idea because [TS]

01:03:34   I always held out the possibility like [TS]

01:03:36   okay I understand that psychedelics are [TS]

01:03:38   not strictly an addictive drug and when [TS]

01:03:43   I am 50 years old maybe I'll want to go [TS]

01:03:45   out to then you know the northern coast [TS]

01:03:49   and stand on a windswept rock and take [TS]

01:03:51   some LSD got to connect harbor and see [TS]

01:03:54   holiday it's yeah well no no just go out [TS]

01:03:57   and like watch the whales ok but then I [TS]

01:04:00   then I recall those times when I would [TS]

01:04:04   be sitting when I would be sitting on [TS]

01:04:07   the quad of my college naked wrapped in [TS]

01:04:11   a blanket and trying everything i could [TS]

01:04:16   to keep the complete [TS]

01:04:18   panic oh my god oh I don't miss that and [TS]

01:04:21   saying like do not panic this is not you [TS]

01:04:25   know this will not last forever dude [TS]

01:04:26   please do not lose your last toehold [TS]

01:04:29   with reality and then imagine myself now [TS]

01:04:32   with with as you're describing like my [TS]

01:04:35   complete lack of plasticity or her now [TS]

01:04:38   and just feeling with student recovery [TS]

01:04:40   on that would be today [TS]

01:04:41   nonono oh yeah i just i think of like ah [TS]

01:04:47   like a windham hill album on repeat that [TS]

01:04:50   I somehow couldn't get to turn off and [TS]

01:04:53   having one thought in my head which is [TS]

01:04:54   that this is the only thought in my head [TS]

01:04:56   and this may be the only thought in my [TS]

01:04:58   head that I ever have it and and my [TS]

01:05:00   brain has stopped working [TS]

01:05:02   you know I used to really hate to really [TS]

01:05:04   be into the fact that i could think and [TS]

01:05:06   and and then I would sit there and I [TS]

01:05:08   think this is the last time I'm ever [TS]

01:05:09   going to think i'm gonna take forever [TS]

01:05:10   and the thought that I'm thinking is [TS]

01:05:12   that this is the last time I'm ever [TS]

01:05:13   going to think i'm gonna take forever [TS]

01:05:14   haha nicee meanwhile like windham hill [TS]

01:05:18   violin music is playing just thinking [TS]

01:05:20   there's absolutely there's no proof in [TS]

01:05:22   the entire universe to show me that this [TS]

01:05:25   will never be any different [TS]

01:05:26   I'm going to lose my mind right now [TS]

01:05:29   sitting here and there's not a damn [TS]

01:05:31   thing I can do about it [TS]

01:05:32   I would I was hitchhiking and ended up [TS]

01:05:35   in Durango Colorado at one time and got [TS]

01:05:39   into a pickup truck with a guy and he [TS]

01:05:41   was like wanna go to a party and I was [TS]

01:05:44   like absolutely and he said one some [TS]

01:05:46   acid and I said absolutely and we show [TS]

01:05:51   up at this party and it's like it's like [TS]

01:05:53   a on the surface of its a cool scene [TS]

01:05:55   right it's like a like a country kind of [TS]

01:05:58   house on some land and there's a bunch [TS]

01:06:01   of cool cool cats there and and pretty [TS]

01:06:05   girls and in slough r print dresses and [TS]

01:06:07   dogs lolling around on the porch [TS]

01:06:11   and I kind of walk into this party and [TS]

01:06:13   the acid starts coming on and I looked [TS]

01:06:18   and everybody kind of looks at me and [TS]

01:06:20   there is no welcome [TS]

01:06:22   no one's welcome in I'm like hey hi how [TS]

01:06:26   are you i'm just i just got a ride with [TS]

01:06:29   this guy and now I'm here and you know [TS]

01:06:32   huh young a young person just like you [TS]

01:06:34   guys and everybody was like and so now [TS]

01:06:41   I'm out in the woods in this at this [TS]

01:06:44   house party and I'm coming on some kind [TS]

01:06:50   of strychnine t acid and no one is [TS]

01:06:54   friendly like nerves have been lightly [TS]

01:06:58   toasted yeah and i felt myself on it [TS]

01:07:02   right now I felt myself on the edge of [TS]

01:07:04   falling off this precipice of like this [TS]

01:07:08   is not gonna go well this is not going [TS]

01:07:10   to be fun and I when I sat on the i sat [TS]

01:07:14   in a chair on the porch and I'm betting [TS]

01:07:15   this dog I'm like dog [TS]

01:07:17   you and me we're gonna get through this [TS]

01:07:19   together and the dog just walks off [TS]

01:07:21   wonderfully alright what it really alone [TS]

01:07:27   net up thanks a lot buddy and I [TS]

01:07:29   basically just meant like walking in the [TS]

01:07:31   woods and eventually found another house [TS]

01:07:34   party and ended up sitting on the living [TS]

01:07:36   room floor i'm pretty sure stacking [TS]

01:07:40   paper clips for a couple of hours and [TS]

01:07:44   then the cops came to the party and [TS]

01:07:47   busted the party and i was so glad to [TS]

01:07:49   see them like so thrilled that the cops [TS]

01:07:53   were there because i felt like the cops [TS]

01:07:55   and I had a long-term understanding with [TS]

01:07:58   one another it would be like a dog [TS]

01:08:00   yeah it's like right the cops i mean at [TS]

01:08:02   least i can talk to the cops not sure [TS]

01:08:04   you know what you can do but they're [TS]

01:08:05   dependable they're dependable and you [TS]

01:08:07   can say like hey man how's it going out [TS]

01:08:08   there a lot of parties tonight and [TS]

01:08:10   they're just like looking over your [TS]

01:08:11   shoulder trying to figure out who's in [TS]

01:08:13   his place is like a i'll talk to you [TS]

01:08:14   guys I mean you know i'm not from here [TS]

01:08:17   wanna see my ID [TS]

01:08:19   and look at the paper clips [TS]

01:08:22   ya wanna see what I've been wanting to [TS]

01:08:23   see what I've been doing they're over [TS]

01:08:25   here that I can I had to do it kinda out [TS]

01:08:28   of the way because a lot of traffic [TS]

01:08:29   through this party but like the whole [TS]

01:08:32   night long just like staving off panic [TS]

01:08:34   and and particularly at the beginning [TS]

01:08:35   with things like that knowing that like [TS]

01:08:37   okay this is an eight-hour thing now for [TS]

01:08:39   the next eight hours i'm going to just [TS]

01:08:41   be chain smoking camel filters stacking [TS]

01:08:43   paper clips and trying to trying to talk [TS]

01:08:47   to any receptive pet and just like [TS]

01:08:52   hoping that the cops come by are hoping [TS]

01:08:54   that somebody interesting like comes [TS]

01:08:55   around and not it was an uncool seen I [TS]

01:08:58   still reflect on that somehow did you [TS]

01:09:00   get back to where you started out he had [TS]

01:09:03   to get a ride from a stranger with [TS]

01:09:04   strange as strange as in a strange land [TS]

01:09:06   how did you get back to where you were [TS]

01:09:08   we started out well this was the thing [TS]

01:09:10   about me at that time there was no back [TS]

01:09:13   i ended up coming down off of the acid [TS]

01:09:18   and i was at someplace and ice went to [TS]

01:09:21   sleep on the couch and I woke up in the [TS]

01:09:23   morning and that's where i was i mean i [TS]

01:09:26   had my little bag of of my little pack [TS]

01:09:29   of underwear and socks and i woke up at [TS]

01:09:33   this new house with these new kind of [TS]

01:09:35   unfriendly people and you know charmed [TS]

01:09:40   my way into a cup of coffee and then I [TS]

01:09:42   started off walking down the road just [TS]

01:09:47   like just like Bruce Banner at the end [TS]

01:09:49   of every episode of the incredible hulk [TS]

01:09:51   really now you can't find your slippers [TS]

01:09:53   haha [TS]

01:09:58   [Music] [TS]