Roderick on the Line

Ep. 68: "The Opposite of Sherlock Holmes"


00:00:00   hello H i hi Merlin has gone man i gotta [TS]

00:00:23   live with that every week [TS]

00:00:24   well which part well just the [TS]

00:00:28   disappointment of knowing you deserve [TS]

00:00:29   something better and I like to think of [TS]

00:00:31   myself as a relatively productive person [TS]

00:00:34   who should be able to make a note to [TS]

00:00:36   come up with a good song for you [TS]

00:00:38   well in my whole life I have been pretty [TS]

00:00:42   a resistant to nicknames who people have [TS]

00:00:47   always tried to nickname me [TS]

00:00:48   mmm and it just doesn't stick like i am [TS]

00:00:52   one of those people who is most mostly [TS]

00:00:56   known as John Roderick both both both [TS]

00:00:58   names you know what I mean like people [TS]

00:01:00   just call me John Roderick yeah and I in [TS]

00:01:04   college ave through nicknames at me [TS]

00:01:05   every which way and and it just they all [TS]

00:01:08   bounced off so i'm wondering whether [TS]

00:01:10   it's the same with the music I can't be [TS]

00:01:15   themed I have to imagine that when [TS]

00:01:18   you're in college [TS]

00:01:19   you did a lot of nickname friendly [TS]

00:01:21   material [TS]

00:01:22   yeah but everybody's always trying to [TS]

00:01:24   like call me sasquatch ER or you know I [TS]

00:01:30   mean red dog I got called rad dog that's [TS]

00:01:33   completely unacceptable for a long time [TS]

00:01:36   and now when actually kind of worked at [TS]

00:01:38   the time because I was a rat dog [TS]

00:01:41   you sound like something that would be [TS]

00:01:43   like somebody who wants to be a surfer [TS]

00:01:44   yeah but it was the eighties and yeah I [TS]

00:01:47   was a skier and like rabid dog that was [TS]

00:01:51   actually short for a rip-roaring ratdog [TS]

00:01:55   radical rock and righteously rascal [TS]

00:01:58   andrey friend Roderick it was a group of [TS]

00:02:01   you and the reason it's the reason it [TS]

00:02:03   actually took was that I was a junior [TS]

00:02:06   and that name was bestowed on me by a [TS]

00:02:08   bunch of seniors [TS]

00:02:10   that seniors we would now regard as [TS]

00:02:14   nerds but at the time i guess they were [TS]

00:02:17   also nerds then but it wasn't like nerd [TS]

00:02:21   wasn't cool [TS]

00:02:21   exactly but they were a whole bunch of [TS]

00:02:23   older guys and they started calling me [TS]

00:02:25   this and they would say the whole thing [TS]

00:02:27   every time [TS]

00:02:28   ok it's ripping on Red Dog radical rock [TS]

00:02:30   and righteously Rascal and refrain [TS]

00:02:32   Roderick and I would you know I kind of [TS]

00:02:35   had to accept it [TS]

00:02:36   yeah you don't want to be you know I'm [TS]

00:02:38   grateful i mean if people feel like you [TS]

00:02:40   have characteristics that are worth [TS]

00:02:41   turning into a really long asinine a man [TS]

00:02:44   who you turn away especially from senior [TS]

00:02:46   exactly especially from the senior so i [TS]

00:02:49   think i'll be honest i see it is as very [TS]

00:02:51   different things I am I like a nickname [TS]

00:02:54   I like an ending for others [TS]

00:02:56   I like it to be organic you don't need a [TS]

00:02:59   nickname your name is Merlin Mann and [TS]

00:03:01   nobody believes that it's so amazing [TS]

00:03:03   that I if that was your nickname it [TS]

00:03:06   would be the best nickname in the world [TS]

00:03:08   and it's your actual name [TS]

00:03:09   I'm you know what maybe I'm too close to [TS]

00:03:11   it it seems like a pretty weird name [TS]

00:03:13   it is a weird name but it is an amazing [TS]

00:03:16   name [TS]

00:03:17   I mean think about think about all the [TS]

00:03:19   effort the parents our age are putting [TS]

00:03:22   into giving their kids unique charming [TS]

00:03:25   tweet little fucked up names [TS]

00:03:27   yeah and your name is Merlin Mann no one [TS]

00:03:31   can ever top it you can hit you can name [TS]

00:03:34   your child [TS]

00:03:36   bismarck von Smith and google and it the [TS]

00:03:40   child would still have to like step [TS]

00:03:42   aside to let Merlin man walking it's [TS]

00:03:44   pretty good name [TS]

00:03:46   now I want to find somebody for that [TS]

00:03:47   well you know we've talked about this [TS]

00:03:50   before but when I was a kid I really [TS]

00:03:52   envied people like you name wise is with [TS]

00:03:56   like John Bob well I mean yeah I e and a [TS]

00:04:02   fever went through this but I mean I [TS]

00:04:03   think we all go through times in our [TS]

00:04:04   lives where I'm pretty much every level [TS]

00:04:07   we want to be invisible or we want to be [TS]

00:04:09   at least we want to blend in [TS]

00:04:12   mm and the very first day of school you [TS]

00:04:15   know they go through the roll call in [TS]

00:04:17   alphabetical order and it's like you [TS]

00:04:19   know and rental right in the middle and [TS]

00:04:23   Jones you know far more filler Mark [TS]

00:04:28   Miller oh no I guess Merlin working [TS]

00:04:31   before [TS]

00:04:31   hi Jason Craig and Matt Merlin Dean man [TS]

00:04:38   third oh the kindergartner and me is [TS]

00:04:43   laughing and it's a pause it otherwise I [TS]

00:04:46   might as well have like a crazy indian [TS]

00:04:47   name and no no the other kind you know i [TS]

00:04:50   might as well be like you know shot [TS]

00:04:51   great dips into Hep C or something right [TS]

00:04:54   you know but you know and so but that's [TS]

00:04:56   the first day you know everybody's [TS]

00:04:58   nervous and everybody's looking for [TS]

00:04:59   weaknesses and especially when I'd be [TS]

00:05:01   like a new kid I would have killed for a [TS]

00:05:03   Todd I mean Merlin is literally the [TS]

00:05:08   magician yeah that's the one that's a [TS]

00:05:10   lot to live up to you didn't turn to [TS]

00:05:12   people and give and give me the hairy [TS]

00:05:13   eyeball and and and scare him that you [TS]

00:05:16   were going to turn them into a toad [TS]

00:05:18   that's what I've done my sense is that [TS]

00:05:20   there was not a lot of concern for that [TS]

00:05:21   but I mean it would also sake now that's [TS]

00:05:24   for now it's actually a James page you [TS]

00:05:27   know it's actually Merline man you know [TS]

00:05:29   yeah well good luck i remember there is [TS]

00:05:31   an article you know in like the wacky [TS]

00:05:33   news section in the mid-nineties about [TS]

00:05:36   this poor bastard he was 10 years old [TS]

00:05:37   named Bart Simpson [TS]

00:05:38   oh you know i mean it could be worse [TS]

00:05:41   think of all those it as those eight [TS]

00:05:43   offs you know think about little boys [TS]

00:05:45   named Eichmann as a first name [TS]

00:05:49   yeah the little one of those on my [TS]

00:05:51   playground well like meant like when [TS]

00:05:53   Mary I'd been very like when II ah yeah [TS]

00:06:00   okay so I got a lot of thoughts on this [TS]

00:06:02   first of all I just have to say and this [TS]

00:06:04   is this is why I carry around this shame [TS]

00:06:06   and pull it out the suitcase whenever we [TS]

00:06:08   record our program is Dave pics i just [TS]

00:06:10   can't believe I haven't thought of [TS]

00:06:13   haven't thought about it more because [TS]

00:06:16   you're a musical person [TS]

00:06:18   yeah you know what i like i like hot rod [TS]

00:06:20   hotrod hot rod of all the nicknames that [TS]

00:06:23   have ever been given me hot rod was the [TS]

00:06:25   one that that that stuck the longest and [TS]

00:06:29   that was that was just that was just my [TS]

00:06:32   first email address again just like [TS]

00:06:35   their local place there's a coffee shop [TS]

00:06:36   and [TS]

00:06:36   front for the right front for the drugs [TS]

00:06:39   and the prostitutes and that the guy [TS]

00:06:40   that owned it was like you neva you need [TS]

00:06:42   an email address and i was like i don't [TS]

00:06:44   know what that is and then he showed up [TS]

00:06:46   one day with it written on a piece of [TS]

00:06:47   paper you are hot rod at Capitol Hill [TS]

00:06:49   dotnet tiny tiny acorns John isn't that [TS]

00:06:52   cool [TS]

00:06:53   it's amazing and i was like i guess i am [TS]

00:06:55   this now and then the rest was history [TS]

00:06:57   and without his name for you or is that [TS]

00:06:59   something in Parliament you just made it [TS]

00:07:00   up he was sitting there trying to think [TS]

00:07:02   of a email address for me that he was [TS]

00:07:04   because he he was he owned an internet [TS]

00:07:06   cafĂ© he wanted me to be a patron who I [TS]

00:07:09   did not understand what why I would have [TS]

00:07:11   an email address or why I would ever go [TS]

00:07:14   on the internet it seemed to me at the [TS]

00:07:16   time it was all newsgroups out of child [TS]

00:07:19   pornographers and magic the gathering [TS]

00:07:21   I didn't even know what that was neither [TS]

00:07:23   and then he showed up one day and and [TS]

00:07:26   and had this thing written on a piece of [TS]

00:07:28   paper and I did not know what any of [TS]

00:07:30   that meant but I am I i wrote in the [TS]

00:07:35   first email I ever wrote was to a guy [TS]

00:07:36   named Eric Chamberlain who is still a [TS]

00:07:39   friend of mine and he is a he is a [TS]

00:07:42   prolific writer and a sort of a [TS]

00:07:44   technology visionary type of person [TS]

00:07:46   right and so he wrote me back within the [TS]

00:07:49   hour talk about the antechamber dog [TS]

00:07:51   antechamber dog i'm trying to cover the [TS]

00:07:53   nickname form old antechamber dog that's [TS]

00:07:57   what we call them with it with a w-4 dog [TS]

00:07:59   um Scott pages long he wrote me back [TS]

00:08:02   like it immediately like some kind of [TS]

00:08:04   think piece on what it meant that we [TS]

00:08:07   were emailing one another and I was like [TS]

00:08:09   oh this is fun [TS]

00:08:10   the ham radio exactly i wrote in like [TS]

00:08:14   five pages basically like Benedict [TS]

00:08:16   addicted are you receiving me [TS]

00:08:18   that's all I did for a month yeah it was [TS]

00:08:20   like having a walkie-talkie that went to [TS]

00:08:21   England don't even remember who the [TS]

00:08:24   second email i got i would have a friend [TS]

00:08:26   at Oxford who guy went to school with [TS]

00:08:29   had gone to school with who was at [TS]

00:08:32   Oxford and I sent him an email message [TS]

00:08:35   and then he replied inside of like five [TS]

00:08:39   minutes which I have to say in [TS]

00:08:40   retrospect is not a great powder for [TS]

00:08:42   dealing with your email but having said [TS]

00:08:44   that I [TS]

00:08:45   have a nice plug yeah over the inbox [TS]

00:08:49   zero guy took him five minutes just for [TS]

00:08:51   his dialectic to reach you he was yeah [TS]

00:08:54   he's having a biscuit on a lorry he [TS]

00:08:57   doesn't mind that using some bar might [TS]

00:08:59   honest crumpet me find me torch Tim [TS]

00:09:05   you're not from England out of the lift [TS]

00:09:08   I got a lot of pains on this is just a [TS]

00:09:10   brief III first of all I I like [TS]

00:09:12   nicknames when the organic I nickname [TS]

00:09:14   people you know when they really deserve [TS]

00:09:17   it I have friends like you know and some [TS]

00:09:19   of them have really caught on my feet my [TS]

00:09:21   boots so I i came up with scoots whoever [TS]

00:09:24   called scott scott simpson scoots for [TS]

00:09:26   the first time they're really catch on [TS]

00:09:27   you think [TS]

00:09:28   well it does it did with me I mean you [TS]

00:09:30   don't want me when I refer to scoot you [TS]

00:09:31   know what I mean scoots is like it's [TS]

00:09:33   like when it's like when your dog is [TS]

00:09:35   like scoot scoot across the carpet [TS]

00:09:38   together is being laid trap I think of [TS]

00:09:40   it as being like the trots [TS]

00:09:41   yeah the trucks and scoots yeah see I [TS]

00:09:44   like those in there some like my friend [TS]

00:09:46   you know John Gruber has a very popular [TS]

00:09:49   blog of apple stuff and I was calm [TS]

00:09:52   chairman grouper the Caribbean island [TS]

00:09:54   it's like a chairman mao kind of joke is [TS]

00:09:55   communism is funny and that you know [TS]

00:09:59   I've seen other people using that I [TS]

00:10:00   think having an affectionate nickname [TS]

00:10:02   for somebody i think it's an honor when [TS]

00:10:04   somebody has a nickname for you that is [TS]

00:10:06   that is flattering [TS]

00:10:08   yeah you know I think my theme music for [TS]

00:10:10   you is a kind of nickname because I'm so [TS]

00:10:13   that man is not it's not a nickname [TS]

00:10:15   mobile name unless you sing it to the [TS]

00:10:19   most of the tune of jet Janet Jackson's [TS]

00:10:22   nasty boys who were privatized by a [TS]

00:10:25   holiday it's well you're pretty sure [TS]

00:10:28   it's not HoloNet sweetwater miss hearing [TS]

00:10:30   people miss hearing the melody of that [TS]

00:10:32   here is a very good here [TS]

00:10:33   yeah well you on I think you're one of [TS]

00:10:36   the very I don't know how you started [TS]

00:10:38   doing this but you're one of the very [TS]

00:10:40   very few people apart from my wife and [TS]

00:10:43   people i knew before college who you [TS]

00:10:46   call me Merle a lot of moral which is [TS]

00:10:48   what which is my father's name is sort [TS]

00:10:50   of a call my dad and I one day first day [TS]

00:10:52   of school in fourth grade they said I'm [TS]

00:10:55   gonna read all the names and tell me if [TS]

00:10:56   there's something else you'd like to be [TS]

00:10:57   called [TS]

00:10:58   is a tribute to my late father i said i [TS]

00:11:00   would like to call tomorrow and i NN you [TS]

00:11:03   know that stuck for awhile and then I [TS]

00:11:04   went back to Merlin because I realized [TS]

00:11:05   it was kinda cool and I wanted to stick [TS]

00:11:07   out a little bit more [TS]

00:11:08   Merlin school but you are a mean yeah [TS]

00:11:11   when I call you Merle it's a yeah that's [TS]

00:11:15   no no I like it you're talking to the [TS]

00:11:16   Merle I'm gonna get another thing that [TS]

00:11:18   I'm interested in the John Roderick [TS]

00:11:19   thing because I've had friends where you [TS]

00:11:22   always there's a cadence to the name [TS]

00:11:25   were you always refer to them by their [TS]

00:11:28   by their full name trying to think of [TS]

00:11:30   people in in your in your area that are [TS]

00:11:33   like that there's some kind of friend [TS]

00:11:34   Mike Mac see that yeah Mike back and [TS]

00:11:37   you're never ever gonna call him Mike if [TS]

00:11:40   you come if you call him if you pointed [TS]

00:11:41   at him and said mike i would i would [TS]

00:11:44   fail to see him i would go who imma oh [TS]

00:11:47   you mean my back [TS]

00:11:48   yeah I had a friend in college named [TS]

00:11:50   patty fruit which is a great name fre w [TS]

00:11:52   patty first and you never called me [TS]

00:11:53   Patti you never called free you always [TS]

00:11:55   gotta patti fruit because it feels great [TS]

00:11:56   it's got nice mouthfeel to it you know I [TS]

00:11:59   know me I i use nicknames a lot because [TS]

00:12:02   i have a poor memory and I i call people [TS]

00:12:05   chief [TS]

00:12:06   Oh chief for my you know my captain my [TS]

00:12:09   development said councillor doesn't even [TS]

00:12:13   matter because everybody was a lawyer [TS]

00:12:15   consular protection i learned this in [TS]

00:12:17   church and i think it's it's been it's [TS]

00:12:20   been shown to be true everywhere if you [TS]

00:12:21   don't know what to call somebody called [TS]

00:12:23   him dr. because nobody doesn't want to [TS]

00:12:25   be called dr. right is better than a [TS]

00:12:27   church situation if you don't know what [TS]

00:12:29   somebody's keno you get into the [TS]

00:12:30   churches and you get into the the [TS]

00:12:32   religions and there's a lot of messages [TS]

00:12:33   like it's a lot it's a lot like the [TS]

00:12:35   Third Reich where you know there's so [TS]

00:12:36   many different titles university and [TS]

00:12:39   look at all the titles / / housing [TS]

00:12:41   Colonel schiessen ison Gruber starts and [TS]

00:12:45   Blitzen Donner Donner Blitzen Donner [TS]

00:12:50   Party yeah I think I think it depends [TS]

00:12:53   like in my in my world I would if I [TS]

00:12:56   called everybody counselor or dr. [TS]

00:12:58   neither of those things would work we do [TS]

00:13:01   in rock-and-roll I guess you say it's a [TS]

00:13:03   bro oh man you get a kick in the nuts [TS]

00:13:06   Nords if you say bro [TS]

00:13:08   yeah I like [TS]

00:13:09   hm but here's the other thing that it [TS]

00:13:10   was you should i mean i think you [TS]

00:13:12   deserve it and I'm gonna work on it [TS]

00:13:15   um I think I like to think that i'm not [TS]

00:13:18   a creepy person like most people I like [TS]

00:13:21   to think I'm not a creepy person in but [TS]

00:13:23   I i think that your little creepy yeah [TS]

00:13:26   and I think maybe for about 10 years [TS]

00:13:31   I hopefully and not like when you first [TS]

00:13:34   date in my house and I was we're driving [TS]

00:13:36   around getting breakfast with ken [TS]

00:13:37   stringfellow i know i was super creepy [TS]

00:13:38   but like I was like starstruck by all [TS]

00:13:41   you guys but listen to me said it's my [TS]

00:13:43   turn I was starstruck by Michael but [TS]

00:13:44   everybody else is interested in any [TS]

00:13:46   social situation if ken stringfellow is [TS]

00:13:49   there he is the creepiest person there [TS]

00:13:51   and everyone else seems perfectly normal [TS]

00:13:53   and well adjusted by comparison is true [TS]

00:13:55   that continent john-boy he's come to [TS]

00:13:59   hear your phone nearby [TS]

00:14:02   yes which you would you do put you be [TS]

00:14:05   good enough to call me at the number [TS]

00:14:06   where you just call me a minute ago that [TS]

00:14:09   I call you a minute ago you texted me [TS]

00:14:11   attack just text that's fine yeah all [TS]

00:14:12   right hang on a second to stand by i [TS]

00:14:16   have to open three or four apps first [TS]

00:14:19   before i get the right one so I usually [TS]

00:14:21   open what I'm trying to find somebody's [TS]

00:14:23   it's really it's a lot of right now you [TS]

00:14:26   got your bicycle parts so I open the [TS]

00:14:28   maps and then I open twitter just [TS]

00:14:30   reflexively and then that he's been 40 [TS]

00:14:32   minutes on wikipedia and then I open the [TS]

00:14:35   translation page and then I try and [TS]

00:14:37   figure out how many kilograms it is all [TS]

00:14:39   right now I'm calling you [TS]

00:14:42   ok hang up and do it again [TS]

00:14:47   jungle drums hang up on you get into the [TS]

00:14:49   beginning of Indian still filming here [TS]

00:14:52   again filled up the Amazon go ahead [TS]

00:15:03   I am done if you know this one on on on [TS]

00:15:11   the iphone had my ringer turned off but [TS]

00:15:13   the iphone you have the ability to [TS]

00:15:16   create custom vibrations for people w [TS]

00:15:19   yeah and your when I feel you in my [TS]

00:15:21   pockets playing car parts [TS]

00:15:23   oh how nice just bop ba-bop ba-bop [TS]

00:15:26   ba-bop sort of a Cuban like a Cuban car [TS]

00:15:30   parts [TS]

00:15:31   yeah and now you know now that I said I [TS]

00:15:32   want to get back to that really super [TS]

00:15:34   creepy because you're about an [TS]

00:15:35   inch-and-a-half from my dingus such as [TS]

00:15:37   it is and I can feel you i can feel [TS]

00:15:39   literally I can I can feel my favorite [TS]

00:15:41   song from from your first album [TS]

00:15:42   literally vibrating my ps2 to do it [TS]

00:15:45   didn't know if I was singing Merlin Mann [TS]

00:15:48   to the tune of privatized it would go [TS]

00:15:51   Anna but uh well but with the that the [TS]

00:15:55   salient part would be an early and man [TS]

00:15:58   is watching you [TS]

00:16:01   eh it's not it's not too early man it's [TS]

00:16:04   more than man [TS]

00:16:06   ah there's a name I don't want to break [TS]

00:16:10   down the fourth or fifth wall but it's [TS]

00:16:11   at some point like to hear you do a [TS]

00:16:12   little bit more of that I needs [TS]

00:16:16   president and what that is taken from as [TS]

00:16:19   I've described before is nasty boys [TS]

00:16:22   yes no I i know i'm looking really [TS]

00:16:26   quickly enough to derail this I'm [TS]

00:16:28   looking very quickly threw on some of [TS]

00:16:30   the naughty titles because they're [TS]

00:16:31   pretty often [TS]

00:16:32   oh my god there are so many good ones [TS]

00:16:33   term group for ya [TS]

00:16:37   and and you can move up and oh man I [TS]

00:16:40   can't put over from ruben through juror [TS]

00:16:42   ranks and insignia places a great oh my [TS]

00:16:45   god what a great page got uniform [TS]

00:16:47   pictures my lawyers uniforms are so [TS]

00:16:49   amazing I really man sometimes I will [TS]

00:16:53   you know those really really a [TS]

00:16:55   high-definition super great quality [TS]

00:16:58   pictures of the Third Reich and guys [TS]

00:17:00   kind of those candid photos where [TS]

00:17:02   they're all walking in a line headed up [TS]

00:17:04   the stairs somewhere and he and their [TS]

00:17:07   the Hitler's in the middle and there's [TS]

00:17:09   like 15 guys walking abreast and every [TS]

00:17:11   single one of them has a slightly [TS]

00:17:14   different kind slightly different take [TS]

00:17:16   on the double-breasted yes [TS]

00:17:19   ankle-length leather trench coat your [TS]

00:17:22   how many bird how many versions of an [TS]

00:17:25   ankle-length double-breasted leather [TS]

00:17:28   trenchcoat could there possibly been [TS]

00:17:30   have enough money to effectively invade [TS]

00:17:32   the Soviet Union but they found a way to [TS]

00:17:34   have 6 24 30 different kinds of army [TS]

00:17:41   insignia seriously crazy like you get [TS]

00:17:44   different armbands [TS]

00:17:45   ok so just because you remember the [TS]

00:17:47   original brown shirts as we've discussed [TS]

00:17:49   before we're like a hound was on sale [TS]

00:17:51   and sell its not just going up the [TS]

00:17:53   ladder here pieces from 39 to 45 you get [TS]

00:17:55   on vulture vulture and very clear that [TS]

00:17:58   he's the on farther held her moving [TS]

00:18:01   helfer arbeit slider that's gonna be [TS]

00:18:03   workin fer button issues but alright is [TS]

00:18:06   work i think yes I was work [TS]

00:18:08   ober arbeit slider is the ohbert's [TS]

00:18:11   letter [TS]

00:18:12   yes he's over the arts later he's over [TS]

00:18:14   the works line but he's got a boss that [TS]

00:18:16   would be the hop to our bites slider [TS]

00:18:18   sure then of course you've got the [TS]

00:18:20   barite shocked slider scheisse and yet [TS]

00:18:23   the uber barite shop slice slider [TS]

00:18:26   hop-hop barrage keep going I ison sizer [TS]

00:18:32   I can't wait for somebody to remix this [TS]

00:18:35   with a beat down to the light slider [TS]

00:18:41   barracks slider / slurve these are just [TS]

00:18:43   a few of them and then you got the you [TS]

00:18:45   know you get yeah so so in watching that [TS]

00:18:47   many of these minis and by the way today [TS]

00:18:48   I got a suggestion on twitter that I [TS]

00:18:50   want [TS]

00:18:50   show up which is apparently nine and a [TS]

00:18:51   half hours long so you know I'm gonna [TS]

00:18:54   make some time for that but at the end [TS]

00:18:56   but nick names nicknames can be good you [TS]

00:18:58   deserve better [TS]

00:18:59   hot rod i occasionally call you Roderick [TS]

00:19:01   and that might be a little bit familiar [TS]

00:19:03   Roderick's fine i call jonathan coulton [TS]

00:19:06   Colton sometimes these are cool and all [TS]

00:19:08   John Hodgman Hodgman part of the reason [TS]

00:19:11   you have to call jonathan coulton Colton [TS]

00:19:12   is that if you try to shorten his name [TS]

00:19:14   from Jonathan to John he gets all [TS]

00:19:18   pinched faced i think that's something [TS]

00:19:20   from orientation at Yale might have been [TS]

00:19:23   right but he's like jonathan is a [TS]

00:19:26   separate name it's actually it's [TS]

00:19:28   actually pictured Kevin he's not getting [TS]

00:19:31   he's he's upset about it you can't call [TS]

00:19:34   him John I think that you want to myself [TS]

00:19:36   a lot of mikes and Michael's the plant [TS]

00:19:38   all legit for a minute but they do not [TS]

00:19:40   like being like yeah i have i've done [TS]

00:19:42   i've learned not to call Michaels Mike [TS]

00:19:44   but you know what to talk about my [TS]

00:19:47   killer [TS]

00:19:47   come on Mike Schiller hear anything [TS]

00:19:50   about Michael chilli with michelle that [TS]

00:19:52   site Schilling Schilling Oh Mike [TS]

00:19:55   Schilling he would hate that original [TS]

00:19:58   drummer of the long-winded he's a doctor [TS]

00:19:59   now right [TS]

00:20:00   chillin I don't think he's a doctor know [TS]

00:20:03   is he a a biggie i'm not sure what you [TS]

00:20:08   know what we've fallen out of touch [TS]

00:20:10   TS is probably better he was teaching a [TS]

00:20:12   writing class at a local arts college [TS]

00:20:15   and he asked me if I would come in and [TS]

00:20:18   give a lecture to his class and I said [TS]

00:20:20   of course of course i will and i don't [TS]

00:20:25   know if that's not the answer he [TS]

00:20:27   expected i'm not sure why his why his [TS]

00:20:30   response was to never contact me again [TS]

00:20:32   but weird but Ino and I haven't heard I [TS]

00:20:37   haven't heard or seen of him either but [TS]

00:20:39   you know what people this happens to [TS]

00:20:41   people they are when they reach a [TS]

00:20:42   certain age which is to say our age they [TS]

00:20:47   uh they go to some weird things happen [TS]

00:20:50   they need somebody to go into a [TS]

00:20:53   comfortable living room set up where [TS]

00:20:55   there is a maybe a a sectional couch [TS]

00:20:58   part of which is called the Shea's and [TS]

00:21:02   they get a bigger next [TS]

00:21:03   ordinary television and uh pretty much [TS]

00:21:07   their needs are met there's a like a new [TS]

00:21:09   chipotle grill that open down street [TS]

00:21:11   hate that place for all the beer healthy [TS]

00:21:14   like formula makes me furious and and [TS]

00:21:18   Bumi with it when am I gonna see him [TS]

00:21:20   I'm not good it's not like we're gonna [TS]

00:21:22   see each other in church I've got an [TS]

00:21:24   idea but it's it's not super flattering [TS]

00:21:26   for you and well I can take its ok i [TS]

00:21:30   although I have to say lately I have [TS]

00:21:33   realized that i am a little bit i'm a [TS]

00:21:36   little bit shaky lately [TS]

00:21:38   me too i've been totally shaky lately [TS]

00:21:39   you know I think that he takes it [TS]

00:21:41   personally [TS]

00:21:42   well I you know me I've I can take a ton [TS]

00:21:45   of shit a metric ton of shit i'll stand [TS]

00:21:48   in a row standard room of 400 people [TS]

00:21:49   were everybody in the room hates my guts [TS]

00:21:51   and I just and it just bounces off of me [TS]

00:21:53   but lately not so much i'm i'm like [TS]

00:21:56   walking around like a like a I like a [TS]

00:22:00   wounded elk em like like an elk which [TS]

00:22:04   has been hit with a stone tipped arrow [TS]

00:22:09   mm but but the arrow has fallen out but [TS]

00:22:13   I am a little bit lame in my conscience [TS]

00:22:15   my rear on I should know like Rudolph [TS]

00:22:18   the red-nosed reindeer where you've been [TS]

00:22:20   you know kind of discouraged from [TS]

00:22:21   joining the group that feeling of like [TS]

00:22:23   being a little bit outside and it's a [TS]

00:22:25   terrible feeling especially at Christmas [TS]

00:22:27   it's an awful feeling i I've been [TS]

00:22:28   feeling I've been feeling sensitive is [TS]

00:22:30   the wrong word right but i can tell that [TS]

00:22:34   I'm well this is to just too personal [TS]

00:22:36   but i but I i can tell I can tell when [TS]

00:22:39   I'm getting a little bit off track [TS]

00:22:40   I can feel a little wounded you know [TS]

00:22:42   what it is I'm starting to realize and [TS]

00:22:45   how man why am I saying this will all be [TS]

00:22:47   introduced in court one day I can tell [TS]

00:22:50   when I start feeling unappreciated that [TS]

00:22:53   something is wrong i might not be [TS]

00:22:55   getting enough sleep i might be taking [TS]

00:22:57   too much or too little medicine or [TS]

00:22:59   something but I started to notice that [TS]

00:23:02   as soon as I start feeling like I'm not [TS]

00:23:05   appreciated i know that i've gotten off [TS]

00:23:08   track [TS]

00:23:08   that's your flag because i actually [TS]

00:23:09   don't fucking care normally right well [TS]

00:23:12   listen first of all none of this can be [TS]

00:23:13   introduced in court because as your as a [TS]

00:23:16   professional [TS]

00:23:17   him everything you say that means in the [TS]

00:23:19   strictest confidence said like a priest [TS]

00:23:21   or a lawyer or what's here what's our [TS]

00:23:23   what's our affiliation your friend doing [TS]

00:23:24   a american serial podcast what a i feel [TS]

00:23:27   kind of I'm kind of a priest lawyer you [TS]

00:23:30   might be my wartime consigliere [TS]

00:23:32   yeah that's right haha can I really [TS]

00:23:33   count on you for that if I had to [TS]

00:23:35   are you kidding me of course would you [TS]

00:23:36   go to the mattresses I you know what I [TS]

00:23:39   had all over town [TS]

00:23:41   I have some room setup better just empty [TS]

00:23:45   rooms full of mattresses and I'm that [TS]

00:23:47   you say just really use up that when you [TS]

00:23:49   say all over town [TS]

00:23:51   there might be some in town or there [TS]

00:23:53   might not be any might be in different [TS]

00:23:55   places it might be a different town [TS]

00:23:57   see this is the thing about a safe house [TS]

00:24:00   yeah you know I'm really idea John I [TS]

00:24:02   your influence on me is is broad and [TS]

00:24:04   extremely deep and I i am starting to [TS]

00:24:06   get way more interested in spy stuff for [TS]

00:24:11   sure and I'm been thinking a lot about [TS]

00:24:13   safe houses safe rooms adds a sucker's [TS]

00:24:15   game room it's just a place for you to [TS]

00:24:18   be immolated when they burn your house [TS]

00:24:20   down [TS]

00:24:20   you're helping them that's right you're [TS]

00:24:23   just like here let me go in here where I [TS]

00:24:24   can't be of any where I cannot hurt you [TS]

00:24:26   recognize thing same thing with security [TS]

00:24:28   if you show somebody five doors and one [TS]

00:24:30   has a giant-ass lock that says don't go [TS]

00:24:32   in here you got a pretty good idea where [TS]

00:24:34   to start [TS]

00:24:35   if there's a big vault in any in a [TS]

00:24:37   somewhat like in a closet I think [TS]

00:24:40   they're gonna know that'sthat's up [TS]

00:24:41   there's a pretty good chance that the [TS]

00:24:42   professor is in there that's right and [TS]

00:24:44   that's why that's why i have [TS]

00:24:46   booby-trapped completely random stuff in [TS]

00:24:48   my house oh that's good so it's like oh [TS]

00:24:51   you wouldn't think that that my family [TS]

00:24:54   bible would be our would be like an [TS]

00:24:57   old-fashioned rat trap on the one hand [TS]

00:24:59   people who know you're going to say why [TS]

00:25:01   would John have a Bible let alone a [TS]

00:25:03   family but then somebody else some [TS]

00:25:05   smartest is going hide in plain sight [TS]

00:25:07   boom pow how there's a kid that the [TS]

00:25:12   people live across the street for me not [TS]

00:25:14   directly across but it kind of around [TS]

00:25:15   the corner' their houses on the lot of [TS]

00:25:17   other corner law there's a kid over [TS]

00:25:20   there about 30 years old [TS]

00:25:23   and sometimes people show up to talk to [TS]

00:25:25   him but they pull up alongside the house [TS]

00:25:29   on my side of the house and then he [TS]

00:25:32   comes out and gets in their car with [TS]

00:25:34   them and they sit there for a while and [TS]

00:25:37   then you see some lighters going off [TS]

00:25:39   some pots getting smoked and it's like [TS]

00:25:44   he doesn't want them parked in front of [TS]

00:25:46   his house for some reason they pull up [TS]

00:25:50   in the park [TS]

00:25:50   basically in front of my house [TS]

00:25:52   surveillant absolutely well I used to [TS]

00:25:55   what I used to do is when I would drive [TS]

00:25:56   up when I would come home and I would [TS]

00:25:58   see that they were somebody was parked [TS]

00:25:59   over in this spot because there's no [TS]

00:26:01   reason to park there unless here unless [TS]

00:26:03   you're trying to do some I mean this is [TS]

00:26:05   a basic level drug dealers something [TS]

00:26:07   really that I mean parked alongside the [TS]

00:26:09   house [TS]

00:26:10   don't interrupt the job that's some real [TS]

00:26:13   like fucking first-grade operative stuff [TS]

00:26:16   i mean wait a minute let me understand [TS]

00:26:17   you're gonna be a hundred and ten feet [TS]

00:26:20   from the front of your house and that's [TS]

00:26:22   recover [TS]

00:26:22   yeah around the corner but at the same [TS]

00:26:24   time like this and foremost drug dealers [TS]

00:26:28   that's at the top of their imagination [TS]

00:26:31   like that's is that's that it's legit he [TS]

00:26:34   could actually be he could actually be [TS]

00:26:36   thinking like around the corner nobody's [TS]

00:26:38   ever going to think you know what that [TS]

00:26:39   is that that is an automotive safe how [TS]

00:26:41   safe room that makes it so easy to pick [TS]

00:26:43   up to stoners now [TS]

00:26:44   well so what I used to do when I pulled [TS]

00:26:47   up to the house was i would i would pull [TS]

00:26:50   up in front of my house at night of [TS]

00:26:52   course I pull up in front of my house [TS]

00:26:53   but I would just park my car kind of [TS]

00:26:56   that I would turn the wheels at the last [TS]

00:26:58   minute so that my car was kind of [TS]

00:27:00   pointing across the street so that my [TS]

00:27:03   head lights were shining right in their [TS]

00:27:05   front window right in the windshield [TS]

00:27:07   where they were sitting and then i would [TS]

00:27:09   just sit in my car with the motor [TS]

00:27:12   running and my headlights just filling [TS]

00:27:16   their car with awful awful light and [TS]

00:27:19   they would sit there blinking and kind [TS]

00:27:21   of and for they would sit there for a [TS]

00:27:23   long time waiting for me to turn my car [TS]

00:27:25   off and I would just sit there [TS]

00:27:28   oh that must be unnerving pi had to [TS]

00:27:30   blink that's really bad it was bad for [TS]

00:27:32   them and then eventually they would [TS]

00:27:33   drive away and for a long time they [TS]

00:27:35   figured out like [TS]

00:27:36   oh well for what it forever reason that [TS]

00:27:39   guy across the street doesn't i like [TS]

00:27:42   because I would never it's not like i [TS]

00:27:43   would get out and go over and talk to [TS]

00:27:44   them i would just sit in my car with the [TS]

00:27:46   lights on until they drove away [TS]

00:27:47   it's not about carrying a clipboard [TS]

00:27:48   that's a great idea I think there's all [TS]

00:27:52   kinds of ways I fucked with a lot of [TS]

00:27:53   people John and I've come to me the [TS]

00:27:56   thing is like you never want to like [TS]

00:27:58   threaten somebody but the thing is it's [TS]

00:28:00   like the two guys in the tiger right it [TS]

00:28:02   seems to be faster than you [TS]

00:28:03   I just need to get you thinking if i get [TS]

00:28:05   you thinking I've kind of already won [TS]

00:28:07   while clipboard is great except that [TS]

00:28:09   that I clearly live in this place so i [TS]

00:28:11   cant clipboard is kind of like I'm here [TS]

00:28:12   to check the water meters in eighth this [TS]

00:28:15   guy knows where you live [TS]

00:28:16   well yeah I live across the street from [TS]

00:28:18   him but the other day I was at the [TS]

00:28:21   playground with my little girl and this [TS]

00:28:24   guy shows up with a with like a whole [TS]

00:28:27   passel of kids and he's the nicest [TS]

00:28:32   sweetest guy in the world and he's like [TS]

00:28:34   a good and all these kids they're not [TS]

00:28:36   his he was the other he has their own [TS]

00:28:38   tent rentals [TS]

00:28:39   ok he's you know he's uncle somebody and [TS]

00:28:42   then so uh another group of kids showed [TS]

00:28:44   up with a couple of gals at the same [TS]

00:28:46   park and they all were related to each [TS]

00:28:48   other and they were all like and none of [TS]

00:28:50   them lived with their folks they were [TS]

00:28:52   all living with uncles but they were but [TS]

00:28:54   he was kind of really great [TS]

00:28:56   sweet-natured 30-year old stoner uncle [TS]

00:29:01   to these kids who were charming little [TS]

00:29:05   kids they were all good behaved her arms [TS]

00:29:08   are well behaved and like kind of [TS]

00:29:10   athletic but but but also polite little [TS]

00:29:15   kids and I was like oh maybe I got this [TS]

00:29:18   guy all wrong maybe he's just stoner guy [TS]

00:29:20   who's selling a little weed [TS]

00:29:23   maybe maybe his his a minute his lady [TS]

00:29:26   does not like him smoking pot in the [TS]

00:29:28   house but she suffers exactly she looks [TS]

00:29:30   the other way it is one time each week [TS]

00:29:33   he has to hang out in a car and smoke [TS]

00:29:35   pot and not bother anybody exactly the [TS]

00:29:37   friend pulls up he says pull alongside [TS]

00:29:39   the house so the kids don't see you and [TS]

00:29:43   we're going to go out and smoke pot in [TS]

00:29:44   the car and all of a sudden I felt like [TS]

00:29:45   all all of my you know all my sweat [TS]

00:29:48   think of this guy across the street [TS]

00:29:50   because I think he's running some [TS]

00:29:51   operation it turns out he just wants to [TS]

00:29:55   sit out and listen to the chronic and [TS]

00:29:57   and have some some pots cheese and i was [TS]

00:30:01   like that changes everything [TS]

00:30:03   it doesn't now I like the guy and I [TS]

00:30:05   don't know what I'm supposed to like [TS]

00:30:07   half an eye on in though [TS]

00:30:08   oh absolutely i pulled up in front of my [TS]

00:30:10   house today and he was out there talking [TS]

00:30:11   to some guy some guy that was kind of [TS]

00:30:14   dressed like minister farrakhan I was [TS]

00:30:17   like listen I don't want any of that [TS]

00:30:18   kinda want to me like a like the moves [TS]

00:30:23   limbs guess it's like horn-rimmed [TS]

00:30:25   glasses in newspaper yet and and and [TS]

00:30:27   bowties like it's I'm I'm okay with that [TS]

00:30:30   if that is a pee-wee Herman affectation [TS]

00:30:34   but i but like you know I don't want I [TS]

00:30:38   don't want I don't want to see guys [TS]

00:30:39   standing out here selling newspapers on [TS]

00:30:41   them it's so you know it is so hard to [TS]

00:30:43   evaluate their I run into things like [TS]

00:30:45   that all the time because I'm while I'm [TS]

00:30:47   not strictly speaking paranoid I I [TS]

00:30:49   definitely have a flare or an affliction [TS]

00:30:52   for trying to find the story and so I [TS]

00:30:55   you know my brain runoff and million [TS]

00:30:57   directions [TS]

00:30:58   you know i might kinda like the opposite [TS]

00:31:00   of sherlock holmes like I will see [TS]

00:31:01   something and i will start putting [TS]

00:31:03   pieces together and pretty soon i have [TS]

00:31:06   taken a long walk off a short piece of [TS]

00:31:08   logic and I've got but now i'm just [TS]

00:31:10   looking for evidence about that right [TS]

00:31:12   you know what I mean the everyday yeah [TS]

00:31:13   yeah yeah well yeah I see what you're [TS]

00:31:16   saying [TS]

00:31:17   well you know and I guess I guess you [TS]

00:31:19   could just you could go over and [TS]

00:31:20   confront him directly but you don't want [TS]

00:31:21   to i mean you have your privacy is a [TS]

00:31:23   reasonably offenses there's a reason you [TS]

00:31:24   have an electrified fence you know [TS]

00:31:26   electrified fences make good neighbors [TS]

00:31:28   I was standing out in front of my [TS]

00:31:29   Vietnamese neighbor's house the other [TS]

00:31:31   day and he has a tree in his front yard [TS]

00:31:33   that I very very very very much want to [TS]

00:31:37   cut down with a chainsaw is it a few [TS]

00:31:41   killer [TS]

00:31:42   well it's not that it is a cherry tree [TS]

00:31:43   but it's a volunteer and I don't know if [TS]

00:31:46   you know this about about a lot of fruit [TS]

00:31:49   bearing trees but you know they are that [TS]

00:31:52   they they bear delicious fruit because [TS]

00:31:55   they are grafted like delicious fruit [TS]

00:32:00   bearing cherry tree is graphed [TS]

00:32:02   onto hardy crap cherry roots [TS]

00:32:06   it's a form of of like floral eugenics [TS]

00:32:11   well yeah so the trees that have the [TS]

00:32:14   really great powerful root system make [TS]

00:32:16   shitty cherries I'm just saying this [TS]

00:32:18   visit for instance they make shitty [TS]

00:32:21   cherries but they have great routes and [TS]

00:32:23   then the trees that make great cherries [TS]

00:32:24   have shitty roots and they're they're [TS]

00:32:26   fragile and they blow down in storms so [TS]

00:32:29   what they do what they do is they they [TS]

00:32:31   graft the top of a great cherry tree [TS]

00:32:34   onto the root system of a strong cherry [TS]

00:32:37   tree and they make super super tree but [TS]

00:32:41   what happened in this instance is that a [TS]

00:32:44   is that a under so i have a great cherry [TS]

00:32:48   tree in my front yard but it's such a [TS]

00:32:50   big tree that the roots kind of extend [TS]

00:32:52   under my neighbor's yard and from the [TS]

00:32:56   roots a volunteer poked up out of the [TS]

00:32:59   ground and nobody mode it down and it [TS]

00:33:02   became up its own tree but it came from [TS]

00:33:06   the route instead it was doing like a [TS]

00:33:08   sep tember 1939 on you it was doing a [TS]

00:33:11   little slide in sideways zippy zap right [TS]

00:33:14   I left over there like Oh Madge no line [TS]

00:33:17   try this what will just go around the [TS]

00:33:19   side how's that for imagine a line and [TS]

00:33:21   so now there's this huge charity in my [TS]

00:33:23   neighbor's yard which produces the brig [TS]

00:33:25   bitterest tiniest little shitty pie [TS]

00:33:28   cherries nobody eats them nobody wants [TS]

00:33:30   them but this tree is just over there [TS]

00:33:32   like it's just sucking up my energy just [TS]

00:33:35   the fact that it's over there every day [TS]

00:33:36   I walk out there like that see it you're [TS]

00:33:39   gonna see it every day I have to look at [TS]

00:33:41   it and you know and it so for a long [TS]

00:33:43   time in the night i would go out and [TS]

00:33:44   love limbs off of it haha but it's this [TS]

00:33:48   big tree I can't you know it like just [TS]

00:33:51   the just the fact that it's over there [TS]

00:33:52   really bothered so i started when he was [TS]

00:33:54   still in Indochina everything would have [TS]

00:33:55   been different [TS]

00:33:56   well yeah but you remember my neighbors [TS]

00:33:58   before before the the Vietnamese my [TS]

00:34:00   neighbors were from from like s sudan [TS]

00:34:04   and that I definitely wasn't something [TS]

00:34:07   they know if the Sudanese are gone [TS]

00:34:10   so anyway so I was standing out in the [TS]

00:34:15   street and I was staring at this tree [TS]

00:34:17   i'm in front of his house staring at I'm [TS]

00:34:19   just given this tree like them just [TS]

00:34:22   given it the hairy eyeball just the [TS]

00:34:23   ugliest looks and I'm kind of hoping [TS]

00:34:27   that eventually he's gonna come out he's [TS]

00:34:31   going to say hi [TS]

00:34:33   I'd i doing you know you're just like [TS]

00:34:36   come out the door because your neighbors [TS]

00:34:39   standing there staring at your front [TS]

00:34:41   yard there's nothing else in his yard [TS]

00:34:42   except mystery but I couldn't quite I [TS]

00:34:47   couldn't quite figure out how I was [TS]

00:34:48   gonna go knock on his door and say [TS]

00:34:51   listen I got I got a beef with this tree [TS]

00:34:55   and I know it's nothing to you but I [TS]

00:35:00   will play i will buy and plant and [TS]

00:35:03   maintain a better tree for you somewhere [TS]

00:35:06   else in your yard if you will let me saw [TS]

00:35:08   this tree down like that's my that's my [TS]

00:35:13   plan that is my proposal to this [TS]

00:35:15   continued to play out this scenario in [TS]

00:35:17   your head and try different versions [TS]

00:35:19   well I do because the because the [TS]

00:35:21   problem is there is a language golf he [TS]

00:35:23   does not speak english so what-what it [TS]

00:35:26   will in it and what I'm afraid of is [TS]

00:35:28   that he's going to get some nephew to [TS]

00:35:31   come out and explain it to me and the [TS]

00:35:34   nephew will have been you know he will [TS]

00:35:37   drag his nephew away from playing dance [TS]

00:35:40   dance revolution or always to look out [TS]

00:35:43   into the daylight and he's going to say [TS]

00:35:46   you know tell me what this dummy with [TS]

00:35:48   the next door neighbor is saying and I'm [TS]

00:35:50   gonna say listen I want to chop down [TS]

00:35:52   your tree and i'll plan a better tree [TS]

00:35:55   somewhere and just the way it is the [TS]

00:35:57   nephew is gonna be like board and and [TS]

00:36:01   garbled the translation and I feel like [TS]

00:36:02   I only have one I don't have one chance [TS]

00:36:05   to get this message across to this guy [TS]

00:36:07   because if it comes across the wrong way [TS]

00:36:09   right if somebody came over to my house [TS]

00:36:12   and they and they they said i want to [TS]

00:36:13   chop down this tree in your yard and [TS]

00:36:16   they and they approach me wrong you know [TS]

00:36:17   there's not like a student get a second [TS]

00:36:19   chance [TS]

00:36:19   soon so so you you have to frame it [TS]

00:36:23   right and also it's like sales you have [TS]

00:36:25   to think about as i get older I realized [TS]

00:36:28   that it helps very much to you can't you [TS]

00:36:31   know [TS]

00:36:32   gasps what other people think but you [TS]

00:36:33   can certainly put yourself in there in [TS]

00:36:36   there they're simple shoes and and need [TS]

00:36:38   to try to think about it from their [TS]

00:36:39   point of view right right it is dead [TS]

00:36:42   wife plant that right now I know that I [TS]

00:36:44   know that his dead wife didn't plan it [TS]

00:36:45   well because i was living there before [TS]

00:36:49   he was living there [TS]

00:36:50   ok now yeah you know these are exactly [TS]

00:36:53   the kind of things it's funny because [TS]

00:36:54   you're not in the suburbs but these are [TS]

00:36:55   exactly the kinds of things that that [TS]

00:36:59   the welding that are making the suburbs [TS]

00:37:01   literally kill us these kinds of these [TS]

00:37:04   kind of turf wars like did your dog poop [TS]

00:37:06   like two inches into my yard the end of [TS]

00:37:09   this huge in Florida John like did you [TS]

00:37:11   edge your grass as well as I did you [TS]

00:37:16   didn't want mean-like did you like are [TS]

00:37:18   the numbers on the address thing on your [TS]

00:37:21   house ask you because old people [TS]

00:37:23   especially for everyone in Florida [TS]

00:37:25   especially old people are obsessed with [TS]

00:37:27   these extremely minor things because [TS]

00:37:29   they this probably doesn't apply to you [TS]

00:37:31   they don't have that many other things [TS]

00:37:32   to do so they start noticing things [TS]

00:37:34   yeah now with you I know you're very [TS]

00:37:36   busy so this is this is probably [TS]

00:37:38   something that just became so [TS]

00:37:39   intolerable you had to notice it [TS]

00:37:41   the idea of a root in your well but but [TS]

00:37:44   if what complicates it in this end and [TS]

00:37:46   you the proper thing is there were a [TS]

00:37:48   couple of trees over there that bothered [TS]

00:37:50   me and when the Sudanese people moved [TS]

00:37:52   out now i'm not i'm not i think the [TS]

00:37:55   statute of limitations has passed that [TS]

00:37:57   no just unclear because i might be [TS]

00:37:59   misremembering but these are the folks [TS]

00:38:00   where you didn't want to call them on [TS]

00:38:02   the carpet because they may have been [TS]

00:38:03   the victims they Medicus Cape to [TS]

00:38:05   genocide [TS]

00:38:06   no no I was pretty sure that the diapers [TS]

00:38:09   pretty sure that the guy there was a [TS]

00:38:11   there was a there was a man and then he [TS]

00:38:13   had a couple of wives and then some [TS]

00:38:15   other they were like five women and one [TS]

00:38:18   guy living there and he listened to [TS]

00:38:19   really really really loud sermons from [TS]

00:38:25   some like 'mom that was broadcasting [TS]

00:38:30   these like fiery polemical sermons in [TS]

00:38:34   Arabic and like none of them would shake [TS]

00:38:37   my hand it was a it was a it was a weird [TS]

00:38:40   scene over there i didn't get along with [TS]

00:38:42   them but all those helicopters on [TS]

00:38:46   although I'm sorry to really with all of [TS]

00:38:48   those helicopters with no markings are [TS]

00:38:49   starting to make a lot more sense you [TS]

00:38:51   know that's the idea not about that [TS]

00:38:54   rabbi we know you've got a little bit [TS]

00:38:56   about why are there so many i think you [TS]

00:38:57   and i counted 16 while i was there why [TS]

00:38:59   are there so many unmarked helicopters [TS]

00:39:01   flying over your neighborhood [TS]

00:39:03   well it's that's not the unmarked ones [TS]

00:39:06   that worried me it's the invisible ones [TS]

00:39:07   yeah they make them they make a sound [TS]

00:39:09   but not where you would expect it right [TS]

00:39:11   there [TS]

00:39:13   ventriloquist Telecom has a cloaked [TS]

00:39:14   helicopter sort of like with the es mi [TS]

00:39:16   bin Laden helicopter can't you have like [TS]

00:39:18   a special black hawk with curvy sides [TS]

00:39:19   that you don't hear coming [TS]

00:39:21   sure didn't you see the ROI Scheider [TS]

00:39:23   movie blue thunder now I'm gonna write [TS]

00:39:26   that down i saw the as zero dark thirty [TS]

00:39:28   you never saw the ROI Scheider vehicle [TS]

00:39:31   Blue Thunder taking place in Los Angeles [TS]

00:39:34   it so it's basically zero dark thirty [TS]

00:39:36   except in the mid-eighties and in Los [TS]

00:39:40   Angeles huh [TS]

00:39:42   I saw light and all that jazz a couple [TS]

00:39:44   times yeah well this is this is so [TS]

00:39:46   fueled by the box office success of all [TS]

00:39:49   that James Joyce Shannon folks and jaws [TS]

00:39:53   to the shower was propelled and write [TS]

00:39:56   his own ticket that you could basically [TS]

00:39:58   good and he he made he made Blue Thunder [TS]

00:40:00   which is the only reason I know about [TS]

00:40:03   the blue thunder was AI was a kid in the [TS]

00:40:06   eighties as your remember with a flight [TS]

00:40:08   suit with a flight suit and also i was [TS]

00:40:12   in the Alaska repertory theatre [TS]

00:40:15   production of hot l Baltimore an award [TS]

00:40:18   an award winning play about the decline [TS]

00:40:21   of the inner-city that took place in a [TS]

00:40:25   in a in a crumbling well once grand now [TS]

00:40:28   crumbling hotel and I was the paperboy [TS]

00:40:32   this was a this was a production of [TS]

00:40:34   hotel Baltimore which features real-live [TS]

00:40:38   nudity on stage and I was 10 year-olds [TS]

00:40:42   who [TS]

00:40:42   was cast in the role of the paperboy I i [TS]

00:40:46   would seek that out and so every night [TS]

00:40:48   for the entire run of this play I was [TS]

00:40:52   you know it was like this was the moment [TS]

00:40:55   where I was try was trotting the board's [TS]

00:40:57   literally trotting boards with actual [TS]

00:41:01   adult actors who had come who had been [TS]

00:41:04   imported to Anchorage for this you know [TS]

00:41:08   this like first-run off-broadway play [TS]

00:41:12   and and I got to see I had to see this [TS]

00:41:16   woman's boobs every night I don't want [TS]

00:41:21   to hear I don't hear a single word [TS]

00:41:22   against the legitimate theater i know it [TS]

00:41:25   was great and it was that was where I [TS]

00:41:27   that was where I learned about arlo [TS]

00:41:28   guthrie because they played Arlo Guthrie [TS]

00:41:30   and the soundtrack every night but [TS]

00:41:32   anyway so I one of the actors in my [TS]

00:41:36   production of hot air Baltimore was one [TS]

00:41:41   of these guys if you saw him i'm going [TS]

00:41:44   to find him now if you saw him you would [TS]

00:41:49   say oh I know I know that guy [TS]

00:41:51   yeah his name is Jack Murdock and Jack [TS]

00:41:56   Murdock was a character actor in a lot [TS]

00:41:58   of television in the seventies 60 [TS]

00:42:02   seventies and eighties like he was on [TS]

00:42:03   episode of hawaii five-o or he was on [TS]

00:42:06   you know he was a oh that guy husband of [TS]

00:42:11   the gal that was on The Love Boat or [TS]

00:42:12   whatever and occasionally he's a serious [TS]

00:42:14   that guy Jack Murdock right you see me [TS]

00:42:17   you're like oh that guy and so Jack [TS]

00:42:19   Murdock played like the old guy in the [TS]

00:42:22   lobby of the Hato Baltimore and hotter [TS]

00:42:26   Baltimore the that the name of the play [TS]

00:42:27   as a reference to the eagle burned-out [TS]

00:42:29   he being burned out at the hotel [TS]

00:42:31   Baltimore right and and it was one of [TS]

00:42:36   those like it was one of those verte [TS]

00:42:38   plays that were popular in the early [TS]

00:42:39   seventies where was you know it's just [TS]

00:42:42   straight vernacular and and the message [TS]

00:42:44   was good morning america how are you [TS]

00:42:49   don't you know me I'm your native sun [TS]

00:42:51   which [TS]

00:42:53   would you say it was it was really real [TS]

00:42:55   it was so real I mean I was the paperboy [TS]

00:42:58   and because you don't get realer than [TS]

00:42:59   that [TS]

00:43:00   mm but so anyway Jack more so every [TS]

00:43:02   night I'm 10 years old and 12 years old [TS]

00:43:06   and we're like the cast is back in the [TS]

00:43:09   dressing room with the with the big [TS]

00:43:11   round light bulbs and the mirrors and [TS]

00:43:14   everybody's getting dressed in their [TS]

00:43:15   costumes and putting makeup on and [TS]

00:43:16   they're all telling theater stories and [TS]

00:43:19   they're all from New York and the girls [TS]

00:43:20   were all dancers and Jack Murdock's got [TS]

00:43:23   all these stories about hawaii five-o [TS]

00:43:26   and you know and Jack Murdock taught me [TS]

00:43:29   how to play chess [TS]

00:43:30   are you kidding me no way i was their [TS]

00:43:32   mascot I was this little kid and they [TS]

00:43:33   would sit you know he would he would [TS]

00:43:35   like SAT me down and and taught me to [TS]

00:43:37   play chess and we played chess every [TS]

00:43:38   night and he was telling me that he was [TS]

00:43:42   working his next job after he left [TS]

00:43:44   Alaska was to go make this movie blue [TS]

00:43:47   thunder with roy scheider and he just [TS]

00:43:50   you know he just plays some cop in a in [TS]

00:43:54   a room somewhere in the cameras panning [TS]

00:43:56   across room he looks to be a classic [TS]

00:43:57   character actor classic character he [TS]

00:44:00   turns around at one point in the movie [TS]

00:44:01   goes hey that's that's not the right you [TS]

00:44:05   know button or so I don't know what his [TS]

00:44:07   line is but he has something he has some [TS]

00:44:09   it's a speaking part and so when Blue [TS]

00:44:12   Thunder came out like I knew this guy [TS]

00:44:14   Jack Murdock he was my he was my buddy [TS]

00:44:16   and so I want to see it and you know and [TS]

00:44:20   of course that also a writer and a and a [TS]

00:44:22   secret helicopter that could run silent [TS]

00:44:24   run deep and so was i was thrilled my [TS]

00:44:28   brush with first first brush with [TS]

00:44:30   greatness that must have been you know [TS]

00:44:32   what that must be so exciting on so many [TS]

00:44:35   levels I mean being in a theater in [TS]

00:44:37   general is so exciting i've been in you [TS]

00:44:39   know a handful of plays and I wasn't [TS]

00:44:42   good in any of them but it was I could [TS]

00:44:44   see why people get so I mean setting [TS]

00:44:46   aside Fame I can see why the show I [TS]

00:44:49   could see why people get so excited [TS]

00:44:52   about it it's really it's it's a it's [TS]

00:44:55   really an operative Joshua's on [TS]

00:44:57   operation petticoat let us see all using [TS]

00:45:00   the blue night with that with that guy [TS]

00:45:02   Georgia church Kennedy well and I norman [TS]

00:45:05   Miller is on a two [TS]

00:45:06   episode wow you didn't get a lot of [TS]

00:45:08   two-part Barney Miller she was in and [TS]

00:45:10   and and I i watched all those shows with [TS]

00:45:13   my dad Barney Miller and operation [TS]

00:45:14   petticoat I mean I knew all that stuff [TS]

00:45:16   sure so I recognize him he was the one [TS]

00:45:18   guy in the cast and I recognize and you [TS]

00:45:22   know and he became like a pal and not [TS]

00:45:23   exactly a mentor because we didn't know [TS]

00:45:27   that not everyone has time for that [TS]

00:45:28   there's there's a lot of you put on the [TS]

00:45:30   makeup [TS]

00:45:31   you gotta do your exercises you put just [TS]

00:45:33   with this kid is not kind of cool that [TS]

00:45:35   somebody would be nice to you in that [TS]

00:45:36   situation they were all super nice and [TS]

00:45:39   you know it was so what year was that [TS]

00:45:41   AED 1980s wow so you are like what like [TS]

00:45:47   ten no twelve twelve 1980 and I mean it [TS]

00:45:58   was like the character the people that [TS]

00:46:00   the actors these people who had come up [TS]

00:46:02   to Alaska to play in this to be in this [TS]

00:46:04   play were absolutely like a Richard [TS]

00:46:09   Dreyfuss in goodbye girl I mean they [TS]

00:46:12   were the same it was basically four [TS]

00:46:14   years later and the same exact culture [TS]

00:46:17   of people it was like being at a it was [TS]

00:46:19   like being on the set of taxi or [TS]

00:46:22   something [TS]

00:46:22   I mean the girl though the women were [TS]

00:46:24   actually wearing leotards huh [TS]

00:46:27   because that was just what you wore I [TS]

00:46:30   mean they weren't wearing it on stage [TS]

00:46:31   they were just wearing it around because [TS]

00:46:32   leotards were that was the thing then [TS]

00:46:35   mostly it starts at Edmond good time so [TS]

00:46:38   I learned a lot but then immediately [TS]

00:46:40   afterwards I tried out I was flushed [TS]

00:46:42   with success and having been in this [TS]

00:46:44   massive production and I auditioned for [TS]

00:46:47   one for the for the oldest kid in enemy [TS]

00:46:50   of the people and i did not get the [TS]

00:46:53   roll-out I I that name rings about what [TS]

00:46:56   happens in that Gibson you're going to [TS]

00:46:59   be an instant play sorry and I was and [TS]

00:47:03   it was like wow this was going to be my [TS]

00:47:05   this was going to be my big now I was [TS]

00:47:07   going to go from here to to the big big [TS]

00:47:10   time that works you like this for music [TS]

00:47:13   I mean you get a little bit of success [TS]

00:47:14   you build on that [TS]

00:47:16   ya know who could give sense of who got [TS]

00:47:19   your partner [TS]

00:47:20   they're blond kid some other blonde kid [TS]

00:47:22   that maybe wasn't so high on himself [TS]

00:47:24   because he had just been an auto [TS]

00:47:25   Baltimore they offered me the understudy [TS]

00:47:28   role but you know i have never been [TS]

00:47:30   particularly resilient to i'm not one of [TS]

00:47:34   those like pick yourself up dust [TS]

00:47:36   yourself off and go back at it you know [TS]

00:47:38   I was like I didn't get the role in any [TS]

00:47:41   of the people and everybody can sold me [TS]

00:47:43   and I rejected their consolation and I [TS]

00:47:50   was told we can't because you're [TS]

00:47:51   unworthy or because it just value I [TS]

00:47:53   student [TS]

00:47:55   well it was just like I mean there who [TS]

00:47:58   knows whether they just cast the next [TS]

00:48:00   kid you know they don't care i think [TS]

00:48:03   it's pretty capricious John the way [TS]

00:48:04   these things happening 12 year olds who [TS]

00:48:06   they're not they're not trying to pick [TS]

00:48:07   us it's a lot of who you now this is [TS]

00:48:09   your last chance for special rarely come [TS]

00:48:11   into it [TS]

00:48:12   yeah and so but anyway I was like oh it [TS]

00:48:15   was not so much that I was devastated as [TS]

00:48:17   I was I took tremendous umbrage at [TS]

00:48:20   having been at I took umbrage at the [TS]

00:48:24   idea that there was another 12 year old [TS]

00:48:26   blonde kid in Anchorage who was as cute [TS]

00:48:30   as I was or potentially even cuter [TS]

00:48:33   I was like I was appalled by this and [TS]

00:48:35   unfortunately for me 12 years old was [TS]

00:48:37   the last I think probably four days [TS]

00:48:40   later I stop being cute and I was never [TS]

00:48:42   to meet again that's so that was it i [TS]

00:48:44   mean they made the right choice and they [TS]

00:48:46   picked me I would have gone i would have [TS]

00:48:48   become uncute onstage in front of the [TS]

00:48:51   audience they went from night after [TS]

00:48:53   night they would have been like this kid [TS]

00:48:54   is becoming hideous what is a little bit [TS]

00:48:57   more of an awkward homunculus every [TS]

00:48:59   night just like every night I would have [TS]

00:49:00   grown a half an inch and my chin would [TS]

00:49:04   have would have grown dollars [TS]

00:49:06   yeah weird just like a pimples [TS]

00:49:09   blackheads [TS]

00:49:11   so anyway they probably picked an [TS]

00:49:12   eleven-year-old and they were safe for a [TS]

00:49:14   year [TS]

00:49:14   well you know you're certainly right now [TS]

00:49:16   in the kind of business where you need [TS]

00:49:19   it kind of really wanted and you gotta [TS]

00:49:20   put up with a lot but that theater [TS]

00:49:23   I mean you know you see a chorus line [TS]

00:49:24   i'm sure [TS]

00:49:26   I mean you've got a really wanted and [TS]

00:49:29   you've got to be like you know if you've [TS]

00:49:32   ever had to go on like nothing you've [TS]

00:49:33   ever had a job but like when you get a [TS]

00:49:34   job trying to get a job get the resume [TS]

00:49:36   and just got to get into this state [TS]

00:49:39   wants a Zen but you've got to get into a [TS]

00:49:41   certain certain state where you go like [TS]

00:49:43   it's my job to just show up a bunch and [TS]

00:49:45   understand that it's probably not going [TS]

00:49:47   to work out and then if I if I just keep [TS]

00:49:49   doing it long enough it'll happen maybe [TS]

00:49:51   yeah yeah yeah I is there anything worse [TS]

00:49:54   than a job [TS]

00:49:56   no well I mean getting a job getting a [TS]

00:49:58   job is worse than even I don't even have [TS]

00:50:00   well you know one addendum i mean i [TS]

00:50:02   think that the only thing worse than [TS]

00:50:04   having a job is losing a job but that [TS]

00:50:07   the I think this the secret that we [TS]

00:50:10   should share with people is that you'll [TS]

00:50:11   never lose a job if you don't get a job [TS]

00:50:14   I mean you lose things but you know in [TS]

00:50:18   America anyway them could be all of [TS]

00:50:20   North America except for Mexico like you [TS]

00:50:22   are like what you do when people meet [TS]

00:50:24   you then you know they don't ask you [TS]

00:50:26   what you're doing a favorite episode of [TS]

00:50:28   adventure time is they ask you what you [TS]

00:50:29   do and they cast really want to know [TS]

00:50:31   basically how much you make [TS]

00:50:32   they want to know whether they should [TS]

00:50:34   suck up to you right you I'm ringing a [TS]

00:50:37   bell right now [TS]

00:50:38   oh but i'm leaning back in my chair I [TS]

00:50:41   can't reach the bell so I'm just hitting [TS]

00:50:43   the table sound like Chris chef [TS]

00:50:44   no I was just hitting a roll of toilet [TS]

00:50:45   paper because it's the closest thing I [TS]

00:50:47   could reach as rivals ringing a roll of [TS]

00:50:51   toilet paper like it was a bell [TS]

00:50:52   because I agree with you mr. ok [TS]

00:50:54   successes that's a new up huh [TS]

00:51:01   um but you know I couldn't do that I [TS]

00:51:03   could do that hated that time in on and [TS]

00:51:05   i want to counsel my kids about this we [TS]

00:51:07   always talk about this and how tough it [TS]

00:51:09   is when you you know when you lose a job [TS]

00:51:10   especially if you're well first off [TS]

00:51:12   you're 20 if your twenties and you lose [TS]

00:51:14   a job [TS]

00:51:15   it feels like the end of the world [TS]

00:51:17   whether it's for cause or not because [TS]

00:51:20   you think like you don't even realize [TS]

00:51:21   how tenuous your grip on reality is when [TS]

00:51:24   you're in your early to mid-twenties I [TS]

00:51:26   really really really believe that [TS]

00:51:27   yeah and then you get a little older and [TS]

00:51:29   go and you know I didn't die like I can [TS]

00:51:32   suck it up for a while and even if i [TS]

00:51:34   don't have any money like I can [TS]

00:51:35   definitely find something you know I can [TS]

00:51:38   always wait on tables as people not [TS]

00:51:40   I've certainly not all the time but I [TS]

00:51:42   don't you get a little bit older and [TS]

00:51:44   like you I maybe not you but I want to [TS]

00:51:48   know if you met people like this you [TS]

00:51:49   have accumulated so much of your sense [TS]

00:51:52   of who you are but how quickly you can [TS]

00:51:55   kind of shortcut your introduction to [TS]

00:51:57   someone so so in the case of of this [TS]

00:52:01   Murdoch fella he could say yeah you may [TS]

00:52:04   know me from 1984 episode of remington [TS]

00:52:07   steele up or he's on st. elsewhere he [TS]

00:52:12   was on boys been in some cases not [TS]

00:52:14   cheers oh yeah yeah he was the guy i [TS]

00:52:16   remember seeing him on cheers this is [TS]

00:52:18   many years later and I was like k Jack [TS]

00:52:21   Murdock but like you know if you're [TS]

00:52:23   walking around you're like that you know [TS]

00:52:25   you're I don't know if your hamburger or [TS]

00:52:28   something you eat you can you can let [TS]

00:52:30   people know that like you can good [TS]

00:52:32   example if your Hindenburg he was a war [TS]

00:52:34   hero John I know [TS]

00:52:36   yeah would you pick someone younger [TS]

00:52:39   if I was you looking for example if i [TS]

00:52:42   was looking for her daughter Chancellor [TS]

00:52:43   is a president Chancellor Chancellor [TS]

00:52:46   Chancellor when you look for someone a [TS]

00:52:48   little younger [TS]

00:52:49   well yeah but you can't put a price on [TS]

00:52:51   war hero [TS]

00:52:52   that's true oh my god John he was in any [TS]

00:52:55   which way you can [TS]

00:52:56   oh my god he haha he's got quite a cv [TS]

00:53:00   basically that film shorts to wear this [TS]

00:53:02   sequel to every which way but loose any [TS]

00:53:05   which way you can I was a talented [TS]

00:53:06   orangutang up he's got his hands up in [TS]

00:53:09   the air he did that a lot don't you did [TS]

00:53:12   I mean like I feel this all the time i'm [TS]

00:53:14   very interested in the idea of status [TS]

00:53:17   and and what a part part of what allows [TS]

00:53:19   me to be interested in status is I'm not [TS]

00:53:21   personally obsessed with it i'm going to [TS]

00:53:23   you and I have been in places where were [TS]

00:53:25   around famous people and I I let me say [TS]

00:53:28   I tend to unless it's somebody I really [TS]

00:53:31   like it like you know if it's scott [TS]

00:53:33   miller i want to run up and meet Scott [TS]

00:53:34   Miller but apart from that I kind of go [TS]

00:53:37   into the background because I I don't [TS]

00:53:39   and you know i don't know you know this [TS]

00:53:41   is going to get into that theme in our [TS]

00:53:43   podcast which is this sense that that we [TS]

00:53:46   have Indian meeting and dealing with [TS]

00:53:49   young people [TS]

00:53:50   yeah that we do so much of you and I [TS]

00:53:52   that I would have to say John that I [TS]

00:53:54   think that's who are really trying to [TS]

00:53:56   reach with a lot of this material [TS]

00:53:58   yeah and a lot of young people i know [TS]

00:54:00   they are not averse to work they want to [TS]

00:54:03   work they want to have jobs that where [TS]

00:54:07   they do fulfilling work in the world [TS]

00:54:10   they want to make a contribution they [TS]

00:54:12   feel underused is the problem and they [TS]

00:54:15   do not see any because because nobody [TS]

00:54:19   joins IBM anymore as an [TS]

00:54:22   eighteen-year-old or twenty two-year-old [TS]

00:54:23   straight out of college and expects to [TS]

00:54:25   work for IBM for 40 years and [TS]

00:54:28   everybody's career path is this like a [TS]

00:54:31   game of Frogger where they're hopping [TS]

00:54:32   from log to lily pad to log and they [TS]

00:54:36   don't see a clear path and they feel [TS]

00:54:38   underused from the beginning and then [TS]

00:54:40   make it to be 27 28 years old and [TS]

00:54:42   there's still no path developing there's [TS]

00:54:45   still no sense that anything they've [TS]

00:54:47   done adds up to anything or that the [TS]

00:54:50   next thing they're gonna do is on the [TS]

00:54:52   road to anywhere [TS]

00:54:53   uh-huh and so they have this that they [TS]

00:54:56   have this crushing futility and it isn't [TS]

00:54:59   that there is it isn't that they don't [TS]

00:55:01   want to work it's that they want to do [TS]

00:55:02   valuable work they have no idea how to [TS]

00:55:05   get there they've got a college degree [TS]

00:55:06   in something that they don't care about [TS]

00:55:08   all around them they they perceive [TS]

00:55:11   incorrectly but they perceived people [TS]

00:55:14   doing fun things you know they see paul [TS]

00:55:17   f tompkins being a comedian and they're [TS]

00:55:20   like why can't I be paul f tompkins and [TS]

00:55:22   they don't realize that there are 300 [TS]

00:55:24   million Americans and only one of them [TS]

00:55:26   is paul left unfinished serious how [TS]

00:55:29   everybody such a sink there so serious [TS]

00:55:31   so I'm always in this position of [TS]

00:55:34   talking to people whether just like [TS]

00:55:35   but-but-but I am 28 and I have a degree [TS]

00:55:40   in in in marketing marketing [TS]

00:55:45   communications communications i have a [TS]

00:55:48   have a goddamn college degree in [TS]

00:55:50   communications and i am working as a [TS]

00:55:52   barista or as a receptionist or as a you [TS]

00:55:56   know and I and I can't I can't do it [TS]

00:55:59   anymore i can I don't want to [TS]

00:56:02   I don't want to quit without knowing [TS]

00:56:03   what i'm going to do next but there is [TS]

00:56:04   no next and and yeah I feel for them [TS]

00:56:09   not every you know not everybody can go [TS]

00:56:11   be a banjo player who cares we're [TS]

00:56:14   already saturated especially after [TS]

00:56:16   supertrain well I got it I got an email [TS]

00:56:18   from a guy they uh after our last [TS]

00:56:21   episode who said and this is the amazing [TS]

00:56:25   thing about this podcast because every [TS]

00:56:27   time we every time we do anything i get [TS]

00:56:30   10 emails from people and I'm always [TS]

00:56:32   astonished at who is listening who this [TS]

00:56:36   guy says my my job is that I am a [TS]

00:56:40   researcher at the International Court in [TS]

00:56:44   The Hague and for the lassie he had for [TS]

00:56:48   the last however many years my job has [TS]

00:56:50   been to sit in a room and go over [TS]

00:56:52   evidence of bosnian of the bosnian [TS]

00:56:57   genocide well and what they you know [TS]

00:57:00   what they do is they give me a name and [TS]

00:57:02   they say find this guy's name in this [TS]

00:57:06   archive of 1 billion documents God and [TS]

00:57:11   so he's you know he's he wrote me this [TS]

00:57:14   thing is like you know I whatever I [TS]

00:57:15   whenever I think I can't take it anymore [TS]

00:57:19   you know I look to my left and I look to [TS]

00:57:21   my right and the people that I'm working [TS]

00:57:22   with you know are reading the autopsy [TS]

00:57:25   reports of their relatives and [TS]

00:57:29   and you know so we he and I had a little [TS]

00:57:32   exchange on the email basically around [TS]

00:57:36   the topic of the fact that the more [TS]

00:57:39   although week although we become [TS]

00:57:42   obsessed with searching for meaning in [TS]

00:57:47   these seas senseless acts we feel like [TS]

00:57:51   if we just watch one more Holocaust [TS]

00:57:53   documentary or we just read one more [TS]

00:57:55   book about Bosnia or rwanda we're going [TS]

00:57:58   to unlock it somehow we're going to see [TS]

00:58:01   we're going to find that missing puzzle [TS]

00:58:03   piece that explains how your friends and [TS]

00:58:06   neighbors how normal human beings who [TS]

00:58:08   were working in an office two weeks ago [TS]

00:58:10   are now like chewing on the shin bones [TS]

00:58:14   of the children who lived next door [TS]

00:58:16   how what is the key you know and he was [TS]

00:58:19   saying after all these years of working [TS]

00:58:21   in this situation reading these [TS]

00:58:23   documents i come to the same conclusion [TS]

00:58:27   you do which is that there is no [TS]

00:58:29   learning more about it you can learn all [TS]

00:58:32   there is to know [TS]

00:58:34   and there is no sense you can ever make [TS]

00:58:35   of it there that you never find a key [TS]

00:58:39   it's just you just keep it just keep [TS]

00:58:42   watching Holocaust documentaries you [TS]

00:58:45   don't ever see you don't ever find it [TS]

00:58:47   and I said how in the fuck did you get [TS]

00:58:50   that job you know like where how did [TS]

00:58:55   that and he he told me his story which [TS]

00:58:57   is just like he was just gonna need a [TS]

00:59:00   jock needed a job he was sitting in a [TS]

00:59:02   bar and he was kind of talking shit out [TS]

00:59:05   loud in a bar about the world and some [TS]

00:59:10   guys cycles over to man is like well you [TS]

00:59:12   know if you really feel that way you [TS]

00:59:15   should you should do something about you [TS]

00:59:17   should work [TS]

00:59:18   you know you should work for this work [TS]

00:59:20   for that and he got a job [TS]

00:59:23   initially I think sharpening pencils or [TS]

00:59:25   or pushing it pushing a cart up and down [TS]

00:59:28   the hallway and eventually he finds his [TS]

00:59:31   way into this room where am I you know [TS]

00:59:33   where he's listening he's got headphones [TS]

00:59:34   on and he's listening to people testify [TS]

00:59:36   about massacres [TS]

00:59:39   seems like one of the mm no let's see [TS]

00:59:44   one of the worst job in the world but it [TS]

00:59:45   sounds like a very challenging job [TS]

00:59:46   because you know i mean what could be [TS]

00:59:49   worse than having to deal with that [TS]

00:59:53   subject matter but also have to deal [TS]

00:59:55   with so much boring paperwork because [TS]

00:59:58   you know what I mean like he's gotta go [TS]

00:59:58   you know what I mean like he's gotta go [TS]

01:00:00   fine you know it's a it's a legal [TS]

01:00:01   proceeding he can't get a kind of half [TS]

01:00:03   right i'm pretty sure it's in here [TS]

01:00:04   somewhere [TS]

01:00:05   yeah yeah yeah it's only gonna be a lot [TS]

01:00:07   of like a staple it to the other thing [TS]

01:00:10   no I mean they're gonna ask questions [TS]

01:00:12   he's got good lawyers you know but it's [TS]

01:00:14   0 & but I mean who I'm court but you [TS]

01:00:16   know Merlin I mean you know are you are [TS]

01:00:18   are somebody who takes a tremendous [TS]

01:00:21   amount of pleasure in writing things [TS]

01:00:23   down on cards and shuffling them around [TS]

01:00:24   you know who you know how much [TS]

01:00:28   satisfaction you can get now I don't [TS]

01:00:31   know if you are a compulsive checkbook [TS]

01:00:33   balancer but you know there are all [TS]

01:00:36   these different permutations of this [TS]

01:00:37   desire to border and any in the world [TS]

01:00:39   and what what do you think John and some [TS]

01:00:42   of it something in it that was three [TS]

01:00:47   times as much money in here [TS]

01:00:48   some of it is you turn over the card and [TS]

01:00:51   it's a picture of a pair of red [TS]

01:00:53   high-heeled shoes whatever that was for [TS]

01:00:55   if you turn over another card and some [TS]

01:00:57   brown sandals you turn over another card [TS]

01:00:59   it's red high-heeled shoes you match the [TS]

01:01:01   two cards and you pull that were to take [TS]

01:01:04   game called it's called to match don't [TS]

01:01:07   you match so so you're playing a game [TS]

01:01:13   issue match and that is that is a career [TS]

01:01:16   that whatever the whatever the the the [TS]

01:01:20   meaning it is that's that's being [TS]

01:01:21   attached to matching the pieces of paper [TS]

01:01:23   you can at a certain point turn off the [TS]

01:01:27   other data and just be like i need to [TS]

01:01:30   find that I need to find the name that's [TS]

01:01:33   on this document and find it on these [TS]

01:01:35   other documents and the fact that these [TS]

01:01:37   other documents are all about firing [TS]

01:01:40   squads and mass graves i'm going to [TS]

01:01:42   leave aside for a little while i'm just [TS]

01:01:44   going to find I'm gonna find the [TS]

01:01:46   matching name but for something that [TS]

01:01:48   field at this is so not meant to be as [TS]

01:01:51   good as it sounds but it's not that [TS]

01:01:53   different for being a reference [TS]

01:01:54   librarian [TS]

01:01:55   we're like you know finding out the [TS]

01:01:57   total number of people killed at [TS]

01:01:58   Treblinka is not that different from the [TS]

01:02:01   quadratic equation know your information [TS]

01:02:03   gatherer and your job is to find the [TS]

01:02:06   best version of truth that we know of [TS]

01:02:09   and have [TS]

01:02:09   access to in the time you have for me to [TS]

01:02:12   find this well and that is why that is [TS]

01:02:14   why the horror of history is so muted I [TS]

01:02:19   mean right now world war 2 is still and [TS]

01:02:21   and Bosnia they're still so horrible [TS]

01:02:23   because they're the they're still [TS]

01:02:27   reverberating in living people but i [TS]

01:02:29   cannot find and believe me I have tried [TS]

01:02:31   a single person that is that is really [TS]

01:02:35   horrified by the events of the thirty [TS]

01:02:37   years war [TS]

01:02:38   oh the thirty years war was a terrible [TS]

01:02:43   terrible terrible [TS]

01:02:45   that's not my problem with becoming an [TS]

01:02:48   Agincourt buff if there's no [TS]

01:02:51   reenactments everybody wants to do the [TS]

01:02:52   speech and then that's about it but who [TS]

01:02:55   I mean imagine a tank or climbing like [TS]

01:03:00   there were people that died at Agincourt [TS]

01:03:02   because they were just buried under dead [TS]

01:03:04   bodies and and they couldn't move [TS]

01:03:06   because they were because they were into [TS]

01:03:08   our member ten-to-one didn't hurt like [TS]

01:03:12   imagine imagine dying because you are [TS]

01:03:14   crushed under dead bodies and you drown [TS]

01:03:16   in the mud like there are terrible [TS]

01:03:19   terrible things that have happened but [TS]

01:03:21   over over the over the course of time [TS]

01:03:23   they just become history and we we write [TS]

01:03:26   them down on three-by-five cards we file [TS]

01:03:28   them away and we no longer have an [TS]

01:03:30   emotional attachment to them [TS]

01:03:32   I mean when one of the interesting [TS]

01:03:33   things about slavery in America is it's [TS]

01:03:35   a hundred and fifty years ago but it is [TS]

01:03:38   still very present because the because [TS]

01:03:40   the map the cultural memory continues to [TS]

01:03:42   be passed down and reinforced but there [TS]

01:03:45   are a lot of other terrible things that [TS]

01:03:47   happened in 1860 up that you know that [TS]

01:03:53   are that have just passed into the into [TS]

01:03:56   the ether nobody still mad about it [TS]

01:03:57   well this is this is a very much the [TS]

01:04:00   part working at need to cut out haha i [TS]

01:04:04   doubt i mean i think you have to do you [TS]

01:04:06   have to take my found out found out [TS]

01:04:10   about scooted forward on what is a [TS]

01:04:13   screenshot of him in any which way you [TS]

01:04:14   can that's really really funny you're [TS]

01:04:17   talking about the jack yeah apparently [TS]

01:04:19   passed by the way past 2000 190 I [TS]

01:04:22   remember when he died [TS]

01:04:23   and i don't know why i think it is that [TS]

01:04:25   I have honestly I have checked in with [TS]

01:04:27   Jack Murdock over the years you just see [TS]

01:04:31   what's doing check-in yeah you like Jack [TS]

01:04:34   Martin what I was doing I mean I still [TS]

01:04:35   have my script around you're kidding [TS]

01:04:39   auto Baltimore's in Samuel French book [TS]

01:04:40   one of those little like license to like [TS]

01:04:43   little you know trade country like its [TS]

01:04:45   saddle bound or likeness simple like [TS]

01:04:49   yeah that's it oh and i and i still have [TS]

01:04:51   the program from Michelle that has [TS]

01:04:53   everybody's picture in it [TS]

01:04:54   yeah yeah your house man i hope you guys [TS]

01:05:00   don't have you got a god forbid god [TS]

01:05:01   forbid John that you ever actually died [TS]

01:05:03   i hope there is someone who can work [TS]

01:05:05   through the chain of custody for what's [TS]

01:05:06   gonna happen with what's in that house [TS]

01:05:08   because nobody cares they really don't [TS]

01:05:10   somebody was so manifestly in true [TS]

01:05:12   somebody would come in here and they'd [TS]

01:05:13   be like when Allah John job prep here [TS]

01:05:17   but why did you need two copies of [TS]

01:05:18   preppy and they don't let Lisa Lisa [TS]

01:05:20   Birnbaum 1982 yeah they didn't have that [TS]

01:05:23   they didn't note that one of them was a [TS]

01:05:25   reference copy and one of them was to be [TS]

01:05:26   preserved [TS]

01:05:27   they don't care he fixed mr. macados old [TS]

01:05:30   BMW by adjusting the anti-sway bar [TS]

01:05:33   um that song I i remember that line but [TS]

01:05:38   i don't remember from one it was a wrap [TS]

01:05:40   kind of a proto rap song about preppies [TS]

01:05:43   but but here's the thing you know what [TS]

01:05:45   this is great because we can get away [TS]

01:05:46   from the Holocaust although i wish we [TS]

01:05:48   could talk about the Holocaust with that [TS]

01:05:51   we need to save it for our Hitler and [TS]

01:05:53   stuff [TS]

01:05:53   you always liked actually a separate [TS]

01:05:55   property and learn stuff people keep [TS]

01:05:58   saying Hitler and stuff it learned stuff [TS]

01:05:59   but I I don't know people with to hear [TS]

01:06:01   that they such a bummer [TS]

01:06:03   it's always a bummer but it's in the [TS]

01:06:05   context of talking talking about panties [TS]

01:06:08   and neighbors and if you take it away [TS]

01:06:10   from that and make it to tell it make [TS]

01:06:11   its own thing it's gonna be like every [TS]

01:06:13   other Holocaust podcast on itunes and I [TS]

01:06:15   think it's gonna drop people and not the [TS]

01:06:16   cool kind of I don't make their other [TS]

01:06:18   Holocaust podcasts and I have to imagine [TS]

01:06:20   I don't want to make it about the [TS]

01:06:21   numbers John yes definitely [TS]

01:06:25   those sections they don't even count the [TS]

01:06:28   Russians I don't want to profit off the [TS]

01:06:30   Holocaust any more than you do well 20 [TS]

01:06:33   million yeah yeah I mean I talk about [TS]

01:06:36   European war that interest i think i [TS]

01:06:41   think the thing is that the the [TS]

01:06:46   Holocaust is special it special for a [TS]

01:06:49   lot of reasons I think it's special [TS]

01:06:50   because its recent and it's gonna be [TS]

01:06:52   real fast [TS]

01:06:53   I think it's special because it's really [TS]

01:06:54   relatively recent there there are still [TS]

01:06:56   as you say what am I gotta check this [TS]

01:06:59   fact is it's so bananas what he say that [TS]

01:07:01   half of the World War two veterans died [TS]

01:07:05   everyday is that right [TS]

01:07:06   oh i would say at least I mean that's a [TS]

01:07:08   heuristic but you know the people dying [TS]

01:07:10   fast but nevertheless you will encounter [TS]

01:07:12   people who grew up you know in the Lots [TS]

01:07:17   ghetto who were like little kids that [TS]

01:07:19   are that are still around but I'm it [TS]

01:07:21   holds a special place because i think it [TS]

01:07:24   is not funny it if it represents it [TS]

01:07:28   represents like next to something like [TS]

01:07:30   watching saw it represents our idea of [TS]

01:07:33   like just how awful it can really get [TS]

01:07:37   it's still it's still current it's still [TS]

01:07:40   weird refresh and the more i think the [TS]

01:07:43   part that makes a compelling as i sit [TS]

01:07:45   there and now prepare to watch a 9 and a [TS]

01:07:47   half hour movie about the Holocaust it [TS]

01:07:49   is that is that no matter how far you [TS]

01:07:51   dig you're going to find two things [TS]

01:07:54   first of all on the one hand going to [TS]

01:07:56   find something that's increasingly more [TS]

01:07:58   horrific and disturbing and challenging [TS]

01:08:01   to your basic idea about what makes us [TS]

01:08:03   human like the good part of us that [TS]

01:08:05   makes us human like you're going to find [TS]

01:08:06   more and more of that and it becomes [TS]

01:08:08   weirdly compelling it's like looking at [TS]

01:08:10   autopsy photos or something not just [TS]

01:08:12   strictly from like a you know for [TS]

01:08:16   instance am Korean or sensationalist [TS]

01:08:19   template but i think i think the nuance [TS]

01:08:21   that gets lost among some of the fans of [TS]

01:08:23   Hitler and stuff is that you for every [TS]

01:08:25   one of those you find you're going to [TS]

01:08:26   find five people who were mostly kind of [TS]

01:08:30   okay with it and that's the part and and [TS]

01:08:32   I want to get into the monster but i'm [TS]

01:08:34   just going to say that's the part that [TS]

01:08:36   always the images yes image [TS]

01:08:39   stick with me but the part that really [TS]

01:08:40   grabs me is that it's okay so it's one [TS]

01:08:43   thing for us to go like I watched I was [TS]

01:08:45   Joan of Arc the 1928 Joan of Arc the [TS]

01:08:48   other night [TS]

01:08:48   Oh which is pretty pretty good it's [TS]

01:08:51   weird but it's it's really good and but [TS]

01:08:54   you know it's it's very very well done [TS]

01:08:57   but you know you kind of know how it [TS]

01:08:58   turns out and there's just this is one [TS]

01:09:00   beautiful woman who keeps looking like [TS]

01:09:02   she's just done some rush and there's a [TS]

01:09:03   lot of guys in hats but is so [TS]

01:09:05   beautifully Castile all everybody dies [TS]

01:09:07   in the end he said tell me I'm talking [TS]

01:09:08   about [TS]

01:09:09   yeah I do yeah it's on the on the the [TS]

01:09:12   hulu and stuff but anyhow but it is [TS]

01:09:15   really moving [TS]

01:09:16   it's a testament to this 19 year old [TS]

01:09:19   woman who isn't going to back down and [TS]

01:09:21   then she backs down for a second and she [TS]

01:09:24   says you know what I'm not going to back [TS]

01:09:25   down but it's a beautifully balanced in [TS]

01:09:28   the sense of like she really doesn't [TS]

01:09:30   want to fucking die at the stake but she [TS]

01:09:32   also really does like little like [TS]

01:09:33   anybody in faith she believes in this [TS]

01:09:36   but she's also like oh god I really [TS]

01:09:38   don't want to be on fire in front o God [TS]

01:09:40   nobody wants to die first and i love [TS]

01:09:42   that I love that she just didn't just [TS]

01:09:44   like you know bravely go oh you know all [TS]

01:09:46   NZ you know it was hard for her and then [TS]

01:09:48   when they tell her she says bring bring [TS]

01:09:50   them in here i'm going to tell you guys [TS]

01:09:51   I lied I lied when I sign that I really [TS]

01:09:55   do believe i was sent by God essentially [TS]

01:09:57   to do this thing okay fine then we gotta [TS]

01:09:59   go do this thing and the guy walks in [TS]

01:10:02   and says i'm here to give you the [TS]

01:10:04   sacraments and help prepare you and one [TS]

01:10:07   of my favorite scenes just a shot of her [TS]

01:10:09   and she's just kind of weeping just a [TS]

01:10:11   little bit and is like you know soon [TS]

01:10:13   like it'sit's right now you know it's [TS]

01:10:15   it's not like it's gonna be like six [TS]

01:10:17   months of you know appeals like no like [TS]

01:10:20   you said that and now we have to kill [TS]

01:10:22   you and like on the one hand it's like [TS]

01:10:24   it is an amazing scene at the end of her [TS]

01:10:26   being burned at the stake that's pretty [TS]

01:10:28   well done for 1928 very hard to watch [TS]

01:10:30   but but like what ultimately makes that [TS]

01:10:32   interesting is that like it's [TS]

01:10:34   interesting because yes this young woman [TS]

01:10:36   died [TS]

01:10:36   it's interesting because she did that in [TS]

01:10:40   spite of her fears but because of her [TS]

01:10:41   her faith and you know maybe she was not [TS]

01:10:43   to nose but also what makes that movie [TS]

01:10:45   it would not be interesting without the [TS]

01:10:47   30 different old guys staring at her [TS]

01:10:50   and kind of in kind of laughing and [TS]

01:10:52   that's and I think that's can get away [TS]

01:10:55   from this battle draws me into this [TS]

01:10:57   stuff is the guys walking out of the [TS]

01:10:59   room full of bodies who are who are just [TS]

01:11:01   wanted to get back to their strudel day [TS]

01:11:04   they brush their hands off and they go [TS]

01:11:05   back to their home and this is why god [TS]

01:11:07   damn your eyes that like the monster [TS]

01:11:09   inside has now become something that i [TS]

01:11:11   think about it really like to talk about [TS]

01:11:12   something else but everybody's respond [TS]

01:11:15   but that does that comport it all with [TS]

01:11:17   your own because i'm coming back to your [TS]

01:11:19   beer your dude your your email person [TS]

01:11:23   because like I'm not just doing this [TS]

01:11:25   because I get off from watching these [TS]

01:11:27   things I'm looking for something in this [TS]

01:11:28   i'm searching for y'all and I'm and I [TS]

01:11:31   don't you know what like the democratic [TS]

01:11:33   process of previous discussion i don't [TS]

01:11:35   think there's an answer [TS]

01:11:36   I don't think there's an end but I'm [TS]

01:11:38   looking for more in this that's going to [TS]

01:11:39   tell me something about human beings [TS]

01:11:42   that the thing about joan of arc of the [TS]

01:11:44   thing about any prior time in history [TS]

01:11:46   was that there was the there was [TS]

01:11:48   opportunity for these individual acts of [TS]

01:11:51   heroism in these these people that you [TS]

01:11:54   know that stood on their principles and [TS]

01:11:56   and you wonder [TS]

01:11:58   um you know you wonder if Galileo had [TS]

01:12:01   allowed himself to be burned at the [TS]

01:12:03   stake wow we would what we would think [TS]

01:12:05   about him now but what I think one of [TS]

01:12:10   the reasons that that the Holocaust is [TS]

01:12:12   still all on our minds all the time is [TS]

01:12:14   that it was it is that we are still [TS]

01:12:17   navigating not the not the horror not [TS]

01:12:21   the inhumanity but the fact that at that [TS]

01:12:25   moment in time i think around the world [TS]

01:12:27   let's say 1938 there was a sense that [TS]

01:12:31   democracy while had be what was an [TS]

01:12:35   archaic form and that bureaucracy [TS]

01:12:38   technological bureaucracy was going to [TS]

01:12:43   free us from the messiness of the mob [TS]

01:12:47   and that we finally had the machines we [TS]

01:12:51   finally have the paperwork to live [TS]

01:12:57   have attacked a technical in it within a [TS]

01:13:00   technical fashion and we are still [TS]

01:13:02   navigating those ideas now they're still [TS]

01:13:05   very present ideas that if you can just [TS]

01:13:08   get your if you can just get that the [TS]

01:13:11   apps in the right order on your phone [TS]

01:13:14   that your life problems are going to go [TS]

01:13:15   away you know we're all were all looking [TS]

01:13:18   for like oh if I just had google glass I [TS]

01:13:21   would be able now I would not have 2x [TS]

01:13:24   you know and so we are still although I [TS]

01:13:28   feel like world war two was a giant [TS]

01:13:32   refutation of the idea that paperwork [TS]

01:13:36   was going to that paperwork was going to [TS]

01:13:41   a progress beyond the messiness of just [TS]

01:13:46   humans through flinging shit each other [TS]

01:13:49   like if we were to did not demonstrate [TS]

01:13:52   it [TS]

01:13:53   I don't know what it takes and yet we're [TS]

01:13:55   here is because I hate don't do that i'm [TS]

01:13:57   writing this down [TS]

01:13:58   yeah and also like like the idea that [TS]

01:14:02   all of our messiness and all of our [TS]

01:14:04   crimes against humanity were just a [TS]

01:14:07   product of our uncover neural uncover [TS]

01:14:11   nobleness and the fact that we now had [TS]

01:14:14   in place systems where everybody could [TS]

01:14:17   be monitored everything could be [TS]

01:14:19   catalogued that we could be ultimately [TS]

01:14:22   governed and the what you know the [TS]

01:14:24   mistake that the Germans the fundamental [TS]

01:14:26   mistake of Nazism oh god I take that bez [TS]

01:14:30   campus but you know like the idea that [TS]

01:14:33   if we just got rid of these people then [TS]

01:14:37   everybody else was going to live [TS]

01:14:38   peacefully and comfortably with one [TS]

01:14:40   another if we just all we have to do is [TS]

01:14:43   start with a clean slate we just have to [TS]

01:14:45   raise these villages and build new [TS]

01:14:48   villages in their place and to a certain [TS]

01:14:50   extent we were engaged in that same [TS]

01:14:53   process here in the United States we [TS]

01:14:54   were raising the lower east side we were [TS]

01:14:57   raising central Detroit we were building [TS]

01:14:59   highways and byways and all of these [TS]

01:15:01   things we needed to get all we needed to [TS]

01:15:03   do was get rid of the ghettos and put up [TS]

01:15:06   big apartment buildings and through [TS]

01:15:08   technology all [TS]

01:15:10   similarly and bureaucracy we were going [TS]

01:15:13   to we were going to eliminate all this [TS]

01:15:16   messy human suffering and so the [TS]

01:15:19   Holocaust still rings in my head because [TS]

01:15:21   every day I walk out the door and I see [TS]

01:15:24   the world still grappling with the fact [TS]

01:15:28   that really like the messiness of [TS]

01:15:30   democracy is the only chance we have [TS]

01:15:33   like it's the only check in balance [TS]

01:15:37   um is other people's voices other you [TS]

01:15:42   know that mixing in that and that [TS]

01:15:44   disagreement and the and and and and [TS]

01:15:48   goodwill you know the goodwill of trying [TS]

01:15:50   to arrive at a consensus rather than the [TS]

01:15:53   goodwill of saying i am going to impose [TS]

01:15:55   this for your own good [TS]

01:15:56   so yeah I mean every day I look at my [TS]

01:16:00   computer and I just c 6-r you looking [TS]

01:16:02   for if I don't understand when you're I [TS]

01:16:05   mean maybe not actively but are you [TS]

01:16:08   you're looking for a little little signs [TS]

01:16:12   it isn't like oh that guy's gonna have [TS]

01:16:14   an access to dadeland but like there's [TS]

01:16:15   something out there where you're looking [TS]

01:16:17   for some little tickle of there's a [TS]

01:16:18   little bit with the monster could creep [TS]

01:16:20   in isn't fair to say well yeah and I'm [TS]

01:16:23   more and more convinced that that the [TS]

01:16:25   chaos is the key that the that the that [TS]

01:16:32   the code is the mess not the order and [TS]

01:16:39   that anything that looks for that looks [TS]

01:16:41   for answers in order is how is [TS]

01:16:46   ultimately going to uncover a new brand [TS]

01:16:51   of horror ones that we can't even [TS]

01:16:54   picture yet i mean if you look at all [TS]

01:16:57   science fiction that prognosticate [TS]

01:17:00   future horror it all comes as a result [TS]

01:17:02   of some attempt at creating a new order [TS]

01:17:08   and what we want none of us can handle [TS]

01:17:10   is that the mess is the plan you know [TS]

01:17:14   where the mess is the messages what what [TS]

01:17:18   protects us and it and the process is [TS]

01:17:21   the whole it is the end the process is [TS]

01:17:27   the end I mean not so much unlike sort [TS]

01:17:36   of i think there should be more props [TS]

01:17:38   for Brazil because Brazil on the one [TS]

01:17:40   hand the film on the one hand [TS]

01:17:42   oh ok but saying that they're talking [TS]

01:17:44   about the country i was gonna I was [TS]

01:17:46   gonna say bowl when my baby smiles at me [TS]

01:17:48   I'll go to Rio now I don't know I I mean [TS]

01:17:52   like part of what i love about Brazil is [TS]

01:17:53   that you know it could be seen as I mean [TS]

01:17:55   I was watching the because apparently i [TS]

01:17:58   like to do is watch movies now this is [TS]

01:18:00   see you can't do this if you have a job [TS]

01:18:01   he can't do it [TS]

01:18:04   Merlin watching movies is your job part [TS]

01:18:06   of your job I don't know what I'm [TS]

01:18:07   looking for I just your little pretty [TS]

01:18:08   there's no end to it i just keep looking [TS]

01:18:10   but a but me no part of part of what [TS]

01:18:13   obviously so great about Brazil and this [TS]

01:18:14   is so obvious in you know and you [TS]

01:18:18   haven't seen it [TS]

01:18:19   2 3 5 7 x is how wonderfully it marries [TS]

01:18:23   the well-off top my head two things it [TS]

01:18:27   obviously is very heavily influenced by [TS]

01:18:30   1984 right 1984 and just this idea that [TS]

01:18:33   there is this you know it got George [TS]

01:18:36   Orwell's such a great writer on the idea [TS]

01:18:39   of how language affects political [TS]

01:18:42   discourse and how in exact language is [TS]

01:18:45   one of those you know basic tools [TS]

01:18:46   there's that wonderful essay that that [TS]

01:18:49   everybody should read about the use of [TS]

01:18:52   language in and anyway I don't know you [TS]

01:18:56   know what I mean I do you making fun of [TS]

01:18:58   me [TS]

01:18:59   I'm not no I'm agreeing with you under [TS]

01:19:00   percent i could google it but I'm trying [TS]

01:19:02   not to do that [TS]

01:19:03   it's a look it up later but the point is [TS]

01:19:06   yes [TS]

01:19:06   so so huge influence from 1984 but the [TS]

01:19:09   other part of it is is the instruction [TS]

01:19:11   of and start to go there but Kafka like [TS]

01:19:15   the castle like there's something to [TS]

01:19:18   Brazil which is like like you know in [TS]

01:19:21   in enmity for there's more the sense of [TS]

01:19:23   stasis and like this is not going to [TS]

01:19:25   change like you're always going to be [TS]

01:19:27   scared [TS]

01:19:27   we're always going to be at war with [TS]

01:19:28   Eurasia East Asia yeah yeah rising look [TS]

01:19:33   at the station and and the goose just a [TS]

01:19:35   sense of like this is never really going [TS]

01:19:37   to change until the next reboot of the [TS]

01:19:39   culture but just somebody comes down and [TS]

01:19:42   throws a tennis shoe at the big screen [TS]

01:19:45   with the person throw a tennis racket I [TS]

01:19:48   think she had a hammer a hammer and [TS]

01:19:50   that's why we have iphones up but [TS]

01:19:56   combine that with Kafka and also with [TS]

01:19:58   with the with like Marx Brothers I mean [TS]

01:20:00   that's what's crazy about Brazil yeah [TS]

01:20:02   it's all it's like the scene when [TS]

01:20:04   they're in the restaurant and there's [TS]

01:20:05   this one and by the way if you can I can [TS]

01:20:07   find you SMS dot copy of this if you [TS]

01:20:10   would like with his a wonderful director [TS]

01:20:12   directors commentary is a great see no [TS]

01:20:16   no i've seen Brazil I've never seen with [TS]

01:20:18   the objective start it i don't you just [TS]

01:20:20   about had a stroke and lives I've seen [TS]

01:20:22   anything literally in the entire program [TS]

01:20:24   right now listen Merlin I've seen Brazil [TS]

01:20:26   alright a bunch came in a moment I'm [TS]

01:20:28   finally I don't think it's a big it's [TS]

01:20:30   amazing [TS]

01:20:31   did you read my poems but out the scene [TS]

01:20:35   within the restaurant is the bombing and [TS]

01:20:37   so they bring up screens like you know [TS]

01:20:40   like you know folding screens to cover [TS]

01:20:42   up the area where people are horribly [TS]

01:20:44   injured so the Tigers don't have to see [TS]

01:20:46   it very Marx Brothers but um but uh yeah [TS]

01:20:50   sure i'm going with this but down here [TS]

01:20:55   is that I'm gonna name five songs and [TS]

01:20:58   then we should please talk about [TS]

01:20:59   something else can you feel the love [TS]

01:21:02   tonight by elton john from The Lion King [TS]

01:21:04   all i want to do the first major hit for [TS]

01:21:07   sheryl crow remember that one loser by [TS]

01:21:10   beck yeah you know all i want to do is [TS]

01:21:13   basically like a note for note [TS]

01:21:15   production remix rain remake of a [TS]

01:21:21   wha what's that song by stealers wheel [TS]

01:21:23   stuck in the middle with you [TS]

01:21:25   yeah if you listen to stuck in the [TS]

01:21:26   middle with you and quite on that I've [TS]

01:21:29   stopped because you have that Gerry [TS]

01:21:30   Rafferty records because you [TS]

01:21:32   yeah that journey right strategies [TS]

01:21:34   diversity is full of cocaine but I'm [TS]

01:21:36   telling you listen to stuck in the [TS]

01:21:37   middle with you and then all i want to [TS]

01:21:39   do is have some fun side by side and you [TS]

01:21:41   will see that it's not it's not that she [TS]

01:21:44   stole the melody but everything about [TS]

01:21:46   the sound of groups like that that's [TS]

01:21:48   like that's like I like a slide guitar [TS]

01:21:50   kind of groove marijuana warm up as long [TS]

01:21:53   as long as you're drilling me [TS]

01:21:54   did you ever take Stephen Malcolm mrs. [TS]

01:21:56   jennifer and the ex s dog and put it up [TS]

01:21:59   against a yes pilot Smith mm don't have [TS]

01:22:03   and if dates a man and sixties oh yeah [TS]

01:22:09   no no it's real and join the ball may [TS]

01:22:12   from the studio where that was recorded [TS]

01:22:15   played in the chicks I do that I'm just [TS]

01:22:18   saying she hot girl boy she got thin [TS]

01:22:20   arms so anyway backs loser [TS]

01:22:22   yeah I think he could Scientology's [TS]

01:22:24   trying to play it off legit i'm doing [TS]

01:22:27   the first the first I believe number one [TS]

01:22:29   and two before your Macklemore [TS]

01:22:30   Macklemore stay i miss you buy a lisa [TS]

01:22:33   loeb oh right there it is by grace [TS]

01:22:37   coverup and crisscrossed by the other [TS]

01:22:39   guys who did what there it is [TS]

01:22:41   yeah those are all this is all connects [TS]

01:22:44   the song seemed old but not super old [TS]

01:22:47   and they're all from the same year that [TS]

01:22:49   there was a 100-day genocide in rwanda [TS]

01:22:52   right so we're not talking about horse [TS]

01:22:54   vessel eat here and we're talking about [TS]

01:22:57   stuff that like you could hear at a [TS]

01:22:58   wedding that you would remember from [TS]

01:23:00   when you were in junior high [TS]

01:23:02   those songs came out during the war [TS]

01:23:04   rwandan genocide with 750,000 dead right [TS]

01:23:07   500,000 to a million 100 days so and and [TS]

01:23:14   they were not they were not out there [TS]

01:23:16   with what is it the ps1 was their big [TS]

01:23:19   rocket but like that anyway they were [TS]

01:23:21   not they were not out there with rapidly [TS]

01:23:23   increasing technologies it was all [TS]

01:23:25   there's a lot of legwork if you like [TS]

01:23:27   involved in in doing what they were [TS]

01:23:28   doing I'm trying to say is and that's [TS]

01:23:30   why that's why to me today I'm old [TS]

01:23:32   enough now that when I watching for a [TS]

01:23:33   little [TS]

01:23:33   of god i want to end this when i watch [TS]

01:23:35   something where people even like you [TS]

01:23:37   much a movie like the the pianist or [TS]

01:23:40   whatever you know these are these are [TS]

01:23:42   people that had lives and like they had [TS]

01:23:45   fancy clothes and the vinyl republic was [TS]

01:23:47   really fun and like humans and you see [TS]

01:23:51   like where you see like color footage of [TS]

01:23:53   world war two which I think just started [TS]

01:23:55   kind of coming out around the time i was [TS]

01:23:57   in college and it looks completely to [TS]

01:23:59   its Vietnam and it's just fresh it's as [TS]

01:24:01   fresh as that it completely brings it up [TS]

01:24:03   to date and so Merlin how are we going [TS]

01:24:07   to stop talking about genocide way we [TS]

01:24:09   don't seem to be able to shake ourselves [TS]

01:24:10   from this spell do you think we should [TS]

01:24:13   put a stake in the ground or we do I [TS]

01:24:15   mean do it [TS]

01:24:16   do we have to start playing the [TS]

01:24:17   tambourine halfway through every one of [TS]

01:24:18   our podcast to like are you asking me [TS]

01:24:20   literally for the recording of the show [TS]

01:24:22   what my opinion is I think we're burning [TS]

01:24:24   or burning it off i think we were away [TS]

01:24:26   for a while we had things we need to do [TS]

01:24:28   with scheduling problems and I think [TS]

01:24:30   about fucking a lot of Hitler got backed [TS]

01:24:31   up [TS]

01:24:32   we're burning it off and i think it's [TS]

01:24:33   going to get back to its gonna get back [TS]

01:24:35   to total fun very soon [TS]

01:24:36   oh that's exciting to me because you [TS]

01:24:39   know that the crows in my yard or doing [TS]

01:24:41   a lot of crazy stuff [TS]

01:24:42   well it looks out the window this [TS]

01:24:44   morning because there were some kids [TS]

01:24:45   like bouncing a basketball and I you [TS]

01:24:47   know I don't like a by bouncing a [TS]

01:24:48   basketball on my street unless i'm [TS]

01:24:49   looking at him know and I so I open mind [TS]

01:24:52   our interview are very very famous [TS]

01:24:54   interview together was completely [TS]

01:24:56   disrupted by one ball hippie and some [TS]

01:24:58   chinese people playing basketball to [TS]

01:24:59   remember that time [TS]

01:25:01   oh well it's what it's like to go to my [TS]

01:25:04   window this morning when the curtains [TS]

01:25:06   yeah and two crows up on the on the [TS]

01:25:09   telephone wire i'm looking at the kids [TS]

01:25:10   at the basketball and the crow starts to [TS]

01:25:13   starts to have something to say to me [TS]

01:25:15   about being in the window like I'm i'm [TS]

01:25:18   in the window and he's like I'm start [TS]

01:25:19   with his mind bullets always liked and [TS]

01:25:23   he's looking at the other crow looking [TS]

01:25:25   at me I'm like again I'm in my own house [TS]

01:25:29   you don't need an alert sounded on me i [TS]

01:25:33   am I am vigilant one and they are they [TS]

01:25:37   are being vigilant over me it was for it [TS]

01:25:39   was at least four layers of vigilance [TS]

01:25:40   because I'm counting at the drop coming [TS]

01:25:43   down [TS]

01:25:44   Thomas for well you know it's really [TS]