0:00:00there is
0:00:06hey I John did you give you figure out
0:00:09my signals
0:00:10yes yes yes I did yes I'm so sorry
0:00:15see I at some point i was playing the
0:00:19guitar in my studio room and I hit a cup
0:00:24of coffee with the headstock of my
0:00:27guitar because i was as i was playing a
0:00:30really aggressive part and some of the
0:00:36coffee sloshed on my keyboard my
0:00:40computer keyboard which it's a wireless
0:00:44keyboard over and it caused it to
0:00:46initially only be able to type numeric
0:00:53like characters like a dollar sign and
0:00:57the paren and and like all the non
0:01:01letters
0:01:02ya like like like yin I could express a
0:01:06lot of yen because i have the symbol for
0:01:08yen and then it just stopped altogether
0:01:14huh and so I sit at the computer and you
0:01:18are you are skype messaging me saying
0:01:20crap you ready go ready ready go big guy
0:01:24and I'm like yelling at the computer
0:01:28watch
0:01:28I'm here I'm here and then I realized I
0:01:31could text you but then you probably had
0:01:33your phone off
0:01:34oh and I'm proud God where to begin so
0:01:37sorry I'm I keep mine
0:01:40I can't use my phone away you know it's
0:01:43just that II yeah I don't think they do
0:01:47that anymore
0:01:47ok but now but just you know the whole
0:01:49idea of distraction just hundred percent
0:01:51to John you know it's alright then I
0:01:53looked and the entire lockscreen was
0:01:55filled with green with Apple messages
0:01:58from you that were yeah yeah pretty much
0:02:01later in our special go well I don't you
0:02:05know I don't think this is why I feel
0:02:06like computers are are still made of
0:02:09bicycle parties
0:02:12and vellum and you know and bailing wire
0:02:16yeah but I mean you're you're out there
0:02:17you're out there deep in dayton ohio
0:02:19pushing the keyboard and nothing's
0:02:20getting in the air
0:02:22yeah the and this is the problem if a
0:02:24guy can't get a little bit aggressive
0:02:26with his Kramer for these floyd rose
0:02:29equipped Kramer guitar and / a little
0:02:31coffee on his keyboard and have its keep
0:02:34working
0:02:34yeah but what if i was down what if I
0:02:37was what if I was 200 feet under the
0:02:39ground in a missile silo and I had a
0:02:41guide my hand on a key anyone to think
0:02:44and you had your hand on a key
0:02:46yes and I'm like turn your Yankee sir
0:02:49your key turn your key sir and my
0:02:51keyboard I spilled coffee on it i am but
0:02:54one question where you seated when you
0:02:57were jamming no no I was standing up but
0:02:59i but i'm telling you this was a very
0:03:01aggressive guitar part yeah I've seen
0:03:02videos of you and of course the senior
0:03:04live programs as well but when you get
0:03:07going your glasses fall off and you
0:03:08start rolling around people think that
0:03:10that's all part of the state Jack it's
0:03:12not a bit but when i get when i get
0:03:13really cranking on a part of who knows
0:03:17what's going to happen sometime she's
0:03:18gonna get spilled I'll tell you that
0:03:19this is why you don't keep coffee on
0:03:21stage shows and it's not it's it's
0:03:23exactly why and it's why I had to quit
0:03:24smoking
0:03:25that's why first of all I had to quit
0:03:26smoking on stage did you burn yourself
0:03:28every time that story was I was I was
0:03:31that I was just playing rock show it was
0:03:34at the old crocodile cafe here in
0:03:35Seattle it was back when you can still
0:03:37smoke in bars and in between songs i lit
0:03:41up a cigarette on stage and my because I
0:03:44because one time many years before I'd
0:03:47seen the band unwound play and the lead
0:03:50the lead guy and unwound he came out on
0:03:54stage before they ever played a note he
0:03:55lit a cigarette and he just stood there
0:03:58and smoke the entire thing just staring
0:04:00at the audience
0:04:02and at you know and nobody think it was
0:04:05a sold-out show nobody in the crowd knew
0:04:06what to do and he wasn't like he wasn't
0:04:10on drugs he was staring at us it was it
0:04:14was the most common with the most
0:04:15confrontational aggressive badass rock
0:04:20thing I had ever seen
0:04:22he just stood there he smoke the entire
0:04:23cigarette at his leisure while we sat in
0:04:27the crowd dumbfounded
0:04:29so I know naturally you're gonna pick
0:04:32that up it's got kind of a smoky
0:04:34overture you're setting the tone for the
0:04:35whole show
0:04:36yeah but i but i could not I mean that
0:04:38was that was that was a badass move but
0:04:40it was also a very art school move in
0:04:43and I could never I could never walk out
0:04:45onstage and put that kind of art school
0:04:48cape on if i'm going to come out in a
0:04:50case but it's gonna be from walgreens
0:04:53it's going to be a walgreens game is
0:04:54gonna be some of art school like stare
0:04:56the audience down cape but I did but I
0:04:58did realize that smoking a cigarette on
0:05:00stage was something i could get away
0:05:01with as the star of the show and anyway
0:05:04let a cigarette on stage and my mom was
0:05:05in the audience and she said the power
0:05:10of suggestion is so is so profound when
0:05:14a person is standing on stage that you
0:05:17let that cigarette and 50 people in the
0:05:20audience little like fumbled for their
0:05:23pack and got a cigarette and I thought
0:05:25the entire crowd lit up and then the
0:05:27room was unbearable nobody could stand
0:05:28to be in there because everybody was
0:05:31smoking was like okay right no more no
0:05:35more on stage smoking right so you've
0:05:38always on some level then aware of your
0:05:39power but in a moment like that if it
0:05:41becomes really clear what you're
0:05:42wielding up there
0:05:43mm-hmm see this is why stops that's why
0:05:48i stopped snorting heroin when ya you'll
0:05:50do anything for your art well yeah well
0:05:52I like the crowd to be comfortable to as
0:05:54I i have a couple friends who are a
0:05:56couple and when they first saw the
0:05:59faceoff film you know pretty good that
0:06:03John movie they agreed by you know 15
0:06:08animus tune animus consent that they
0:06:11needed to develop some kind of a code so
0:06:15something happen
0:06:16and one of their one of the two in a
0:06:18couple like ended up getting face
0:06:19switched they would have a way to let
0:06:22the person know they have some kind of a
0:06:24facial safe code to let the other person
0:06:26know whether it was really them or not
0:06:28lose their crude and they won't tell
0:06:30which i think is some sort of course
0:06:32they won't know I mean now if you read
0:06:33comics you know that kind of thing with
0:06:34a call-out mind swap it comes up all the
0:06:35time I guess what I'm saying to you is
0:06:37you play guitar a lot you enjoy coffee
0:06:40and maybe we need to work something out
0:06:42where we can have some kind of lonely
0:06:44ping-pong some kind of smoke signals
0:06:46maybe involving the high ass Kiki's that
0:06:48whether thatís maybe this maybe we can
0:06:51work out some kind of read this one
0:06:53thing I was ringing I was bringing all
0:06:55the bells that i had and i realized that
0:06:57you can't hear the you cannot hear the
0:06:59bells unless the computer is engaged now
0:07:02I'm not yet not yet yeah yeah now you
0:07:04can hear fine but uh but and then then
0:07:08that was that then I'm back to the
0:07:09Wright brothers then it's like there is
0:07:11no way once if he's not answering his
0:07:15cell phone texts me going and getting an
0:07:18ipad is not gonna help
0:07:20there's not a third way I hate that
0:07:22feeling and secondly lock your keys in
0:07:24your car and you just you your your your
0:07:26first of all you just fall apart because
0:07:27you realize what a dumbass you are but
0:07:29then if you like me to start reeling
0:07:30through all these different
0:07:31possibilities like any no panic like I
0:07:33panicked but I'm a panicker and when I
0:07:36pan to get real stupid and become very
0:07:39what fabulous time become like a south
0:07:41and south american writer i start coming
0:07:43up with all kinds of crazy shit for what
0:07:45we do to get the situation goes just
0:07:46gonna steal your car and you will be
0:07:47able to stop you know what that could be
0:07:49Plan C you know what we should do is get
0:07:52satellite phones i was gonna say yes I
0:07:55was gonna get with it with the comics i
0:07:56was gonna go more for Batman red phone
0:07:58situation and satellite phone could be
0:08:00nice because just in case just in case
0:08:02as or horticultural lake and lime
0:08:05maybe we should maybe you should lay our
0:08:07out our own cable
0:08:08mm-hmm should take that I i think i just
0:08:16did it's like mr. Copeland on you
0:08:19ah yes I'll everybody at work yeah um
0:08:24everything she does is magic
0:08:26I you know the phones are a funny thing
0:08:28my in-law
0:08:29still just cannot believe that all we
0:08:31have are our mobile phones they think
0:08:34it's so you know they're not that much
0:08:35older than us but it just seems crazy
0:08:38like you know what's the first thing you
0:08:40do you get your house and the first
0:08:42thing you do you do turn on the electric
0:08:43and you get a phone like how could you
0:08:45not have a landline phone in your house
0:08:47and the first thing you do is go
0:08:48masturbate in every room and get this
0:08:51looks after not did I agreed a different
0:08:53moment but i can't throw all the cards
0:08:56out
0:08:56I know ok now just to review when you
0:08:58first considering just even considering
0:09:02buying a home you go into every corner
0:09:04and you listen right yes they are there
0:09:06any spooks in here you lay down on the
0:09:08floor closure eyes and you say are there
0:09:10any spooks in here
0:09:11ok then we fast-forward past the closing
0:09:14everything set
0:09:15you've escrowed or whatever that means
0:09:18and now it's all yours do you have a
0:09:19sense in your mind of the kinds of the
0:09:21steps you walk through to lay your
0:09:23imprimatur on that floor masturbating
0:09:25seems like a great start in uh yeah I
0:09:29mean you gotta you gotta walk around the
0:09:31house i think i think in my case you
0:09:33have to walk around the house and
0:09:34visibly scoff at every improvement that
0:09:39a previous homeowner made so like I walk
0:09:42around I riding the quality and the
0:09:44taste of decided i just put like a
0:09:45little i just put a little thumbprint of
0:09:48scorn on every other carpenters work
0:09:51nice recessed lighting
0:09:53it's kind of like it's kind of like when
0:09:55you walk through the inner city and
0:09:56somebody's tagged and then somebody else
0:09:58is crossed out the tag and tagged
0:09:59they're tagged on it and then actually
0:10:01remember I just as written is gay after
0:10:04the his gay right right
0:10:05I I walk around and I just look at all
0:10:07the I look at all the hack carpentry
0:10:09because every house that's a hundred
0:10:11years old has a 10 20 year increments
0:10:14like the rings of a tree has hacked
0:10:17carpenter that cat carpentry throughout
0:10:19the ages so you can you can look at the
0:10:22at the nails and kind of gauge like what
0:10:25era those nails are from right to be
0:10:27like oh this is some seventies a
0:10:29carpentry and it's over the top of some
0:10:3250 sack carpentry so I walked and I
0:10:35certainly walked around my house and I
0:10:36was like that is some part of the whole
0:10:39nature in now
0:10:41there's some nice finishing I don't want
0:10:43to you know triangulate too much here
0:10:45but you'll remember i was literally
0:10:47taken aback by your kitchen
0:10:48yeah yeah there have been in there have
0:10:50been improvements made who but but you
0:10:53make decisions you've got a budget you
0:10:55get time you going and you maybe fix
0:10:56some things and another thing another
0:10:57thing that I walked around the house and
0:10:59I just I just I gave the scornful I to
0:11:02all the new stuff so that the new stuff
0:11:05this is my feeling so that the candle
0:11:07lighting and the the marble countertops
0:11:09don't get too ahead of themselves they
0:11:11don't have too much pride they sit back
0:11:14and they realize that they are new and I
0:11:16see them right and then they become part
0:11:19of the house and they're not they're not
0:11:20sticking out all the time like look at
0:11:22me i'm the i'm the pressure-sensitive
0:11:25light switch or whatever it's like you
0:11:29are you're nothing to me
0:11:30yeah pressure-sensitive light switch so
0:11:32your thing is also your my you can't
0:11:35figure mine and here's what I want to
0:11:37serve at my pleasure i want from you
0:11:39that you work like a light switch
0:11:42that's what I that theater lighting
0:11:43thing where it comes up and down kind of
0:11:45Jenny they got me like John I got mixed
0:11:47feelings about that they installed this
0:11:49stuff in my house and every time I walk
0:11:50in I hit the light switch and then it
0:11:53makes a decision and and I'm standing
0:11:59there in the doorway my arms laden with
0:12:01groceries or irm carry a girl across the
0:12:05threshold or something
0:12:06my hands are full and I hit that light
0:12:09switch and then it thinks about what
0:12:11it's going to do for a second it seems
0:12:13like we hit the the opening of west side
0:12:15story and maybe the lights are just
0:12:17slowly coming up yeah yeah and then
0:12:19sometimes they go up a little now John
0:12:22and that's the reason they come on a
0:12:24light switch and there's a reason the
0:12:25late decision must be looking now it's
0:12:28it is a reason that that is the analogy
0:12:30for on and off it should give it a flick
0:12:31it should be audible and then the room
0:12:34should be flooded with light lights on
0:12:36well we have one of those in our dining
0:12:38area we call the nook and i think yeah
0:12:41you you're emotionally with the old
0:12:43place which is almost exactly like the
0:12:44new place but in the new place
0:12:46I'm somebody installed under which
0:12:48college I just like theater lighting
0:12:50right where it can gently you turn it on
0:12:51and gently bring the light of day
0:12:53and we bring the lights down somebody
0:12:55installed in our place but they didn't
0:12:56finish it so it's gonna hang out of the
0:12:58wall a little bit you know you got a
0:12:59match on it real hard to get it to go
0:13:01it really it defeats the entire purpose
0:13:03of having lights in your home this
0:13:05morning exercise it's more like a
0:13:06children's exercise and how to make
0:13:08light happen then adults trying to find
0:13:10a room with light
0:13:11here's another thing maybe i don't i
0:13:13don't know i'm not going to presume how
0:13:15much you know about electricity light
0:13:18but if you installed 10 canned light
0:13:23fixtures in a room through one light
0:13:26switch and you put a 60-watt bulb in
0:13:31every one of those that's 600 watts
0:13:35yeah it is additive and if your lights
0:13:40which is rated for 300 Watts here's
0:13:46what's gonna happen
0:13:47your lights which is going to get very
0:13:48hot as the power pours through the tiny
0:13:53little as the electrons pour through the
0:13:56tiny little hole elaborate chur the
0:13:59little cable hole the hole that is a
0:14:01cable about these things a lot of family
0:14:03is tables are holes which electricity
0:14:06pour through that our own better that
0:14:09are there basically holes of plastic
0:14:11that are full of copper electric pole
0:14:14its up its it works it works like a
0:14:16tunnel that it is a tube the electric
0:14:20that I'm extrapolating fact that you put
0:14:22that it's a tube it's a long copper tube
0:14:26rate that is full of copper which is
0:14:28full of electrons and it gets very hot
0:14:31and you're seeing these these these a
0:14:33brainiacs who put all this week we used
0:14:36called recessed lights and candles when
0:14:37you get the holes in the ceiling and you
0:14:39get this kind of fruity no offense kind
0:14:41of fruity the lights that are included
0:14:43in the ceiling in a in a can
0:14:45right right right i don't care for this
0:14:47they used the wrong switches they use
0:14:50with the you switches that were not
0:14:51rated for this behavior and so when you
0:14:55type if as if the lights are powered all
0:14:57the way up then you go over and you put
0:14:58your hand on it you will feel you will
0:15:01feel the one of the most uncomfortable
0:15:03feelings you can have as a homeowner
0:15:06hot plastic light switch it's like two
0:15:09places in maybe three places in your
0:15:11home you should feel warmth
0:15:13this should be water coming out of a
0:15:15rated spigot could be out of some heat
0:15:18radiating device but generally as you
0:15:20know I am NOT an electrical engineer but
0:15:22its understanding that electrical things
0:15:24should not be hot
0:15:25no you don't want your electrical things
0:15:27hot and you don't want ants in your
0:15:29upstairs bath now god they still there
0:15:31no no come on it's been months so they
0:15:37went away if you're living your sink is
0:15:39that why they were so they figured out
0:15:40another way because I was I had them i
0:15:42had that I had their routes all mapped
0:15:45out and I had little punchy traps all
0:15:48around the sink so the answer would walk
0:15:50across sorry but if it employs a
0:15:52nonstick yeah well they would walk
0:15:54across what seemed like a up floor
0:15:57covered with leaves and then they would
0:15:59fall into a pit and be impaled on a
0:16:01shit-covered state upon the stick shift
0:16:03covered bamboo stick and then they would
0:16:05die of infection so they couldn't go
0:16:07near the sink but then in there in there
0:16:11like in their power their and power
0:16:15which I do not understand i cannot for
0:16:17the life of me understand it's one of
0:16:19those pallets one of those animal powers
0:16:21like they say a dog can smell you
0:16:23six miles away and it's like how know a
0:16:26dog
0:16:26how does a dog do it right these ants
0:16:29can find a way they send out so many
0:16:32scouts million scouts and they found a
0:16:35new way in which is that a little piece
0:16:38of caulk had drooped true peacock ah and
0:16:46yeah you know you I mean you would have
0:16:47thought of that
0:16:48who thinks about drew peacock and the
0:16:50only way you could see the peacock is
0:16:51lay down on the floor of the bathroom
0:16:53and put your head under the toilet where
0:16:56the P splashes and look under the trim
0:17:00and there you will see that whoever was
0:17:02talking it like they just kinda it's not
0:17:07that they missed a spot
0:17:08it's just that little rock dropped a
0:17:10little bit and now it it is the i-5 of
0:17:14ants
0:17:15and they're pouring into the bathroom
0:17:17and I'm like what do you want in here
0:17:18there's nothing I genetic and Yuri cock
0:17:20that
0:17:21yeah you can but I am happy down there
0:17:22you go down there it's not bad it's that
0:17:24it's that you know that I i suffered
0:17:28Merlin because i want the hands to learn
0:17:30i want to i feel like i don't want to
0:17:34fix the problem
0:17:36I want to teach you teach teach the end
0:17:38that's right i want to fix the problem
0:17:39of the cock level I want to fix the
0:17:41problem with the attitude level i want
0:17:45to go back up the chain out the head and
0:17:49rye i think i understand this is a big
0:17:52pattern for you
0:17:53yes be you would like to see a
0:17:56consequent change in behavior but a you
0:17:59want to make sure that they get their
0:18:00mind right that's right isn't a kind of
0:18:02more important thing 82 teaching at the
0:18:04fish I imagine the Queen and and I
0:18:08imagine some lieutenant colonel and
0:18:10comes up and says were but we're missing
0:18:18some scouts and the queen says send more
0:18:21Scouts and the lieutenant-colonel comes
0:18:25back and he's like sector B we are we're
0:18:30not getting any readings from sector be
0:18:32nobody's coming back
0:18:33nobody's making it back from sector B
0:18:35and she's like redouble our efforts in
0:18:37sector B and we go back and forth until
0:18:42the lieutenant-colonel bruised and
0:18:44battered stands before her and says we
0:18:49are hemorrhaging and sector B we cannot
0:18:53keep up this pace it's an unwinnable war
0:18:55like I want their hearts and minds i
0:18:59want her write whatever you want to win
0:19:02this this trench for this war of
0:19:03attrition you want to wear them down
0:19:05yeah it's where to where the short of
0:19:07resources and a half blessing to you I
0:19:09want her to feel I want her to feel me
0:19:11there next to her in her nest whispering
0:19:14in her ear
0:19:15you should sit next to her I can't do it
0:19:17I can't follow because she's a very tiny
0:19:19tiny little creature i cannot get into
0:19:22her nest with her but I want her to feel
0:19:24me there
0:19:25I want her to make decisions based on
0:19:28the my whispering in her ear send all
0:19:31the ins you want to just staring at her
0:19:34smoking a cigarette but I have this
0:19:37amazing thing which is called a
0:19:40Dustbuster and my Dustbuster is
0:19:43calibrated for antibodies and I will sit
0:19:48and i will Dustbuster dance i will spend
0:19:52i will spend 15 days not leaving my
0:19:54bathroom there's a sink in there the
0:19:59food i can get water who and i will just
0:20:02dust every hand that comes out of that
0:20:04little piece of true peacock em children
0:20:07she feels me she knows I'm there I mm
0:20:10I've read a third of a book about this
0:20:13and I've heard for podcast about it and
0:20:14I would tell you that the 15 second
0:20:16version of it is that ants and this is
0:20:18actually something i heard last weekend
0:20:20and succeed because they're stupid and
0:20:22because there's lots of them and when
0:20:24they make a mistake things get better so
0:20:26basically walk around as the EO wilson
0:20:27is shown they have a little finger
0:20:29shaped gland that makes that little ant
0:20:31smell and and so basically what they do
0:20:33is they run around and do these little
0:20:35paths and when they pick up a more
0:20:37powerful path they walk down that path
0:20:39so it's all completely illogical
0:20:40immersions it's all completely
0:20:42accidental but it's also completely
0:20:44chaotic and I'm just you know as you
0:20:46know i'm not an entomologist but i think
0:20:49it's hard to teach and I think they're
0:20:50already there pretty stupid and ultra
0:20:53summaries two roads diverged in a yellow
0:20:56wood and sorry they could not travel
0:20:58both but b1 and alone they stood there
0:21:04and looked down one as far as they could
0:21:06to wear been into the undergrowth and
0:21:09then they take the other as just as fair
0:21:12and having perhaps the better claim
0:21:14because it was not grassy and did not
0:21:18want where
0:21:20although as for that the passing there
0:21:22had worn them really about the same
0:21:25Wow now what was that was a cross amber
0:21:29go around her loved ones that I wasn't
0:21:33gonna be white
0:21:35no that was Robert Frost is I was gonna
0:21:37guess for us
0:21:38yeah cheese Louise I you know I I don't
0:21:41wanna see I don't want to think about I
0:21:42don't be bothered by and only bothered
0:21:44by insects but like so many things in
0:21:46life is just I noticed them you live in
0:21:48San Francisco there are so many bigger
0:21:50chance to bother you
0:21:52yeah i can overlook a lot of them i can
0:21:54overlook a lot of them but you know it
0:21:56is it is frustrating and you know really
0:21:58in Florida it was there was the roaches
0:22:00means longer just talking about insects
0:22:01and I think we can very easily extend
0:22:03this to people and drippy cock not
0:22:05withstanding the roaches you know they
0:22:07say for everyone you see there's like a
0:22:08seven thousand others or whatever
0:22:09no not an expert but no no you see 1
0:22:12i'll never forget my first Roach it is
0:22:14it is so complacent on my mind had a
0:22:17little touch you know I wish you wish
0:22:21rails 14 I could use the love but I was
0:22:24laying in bed watching fridays as you do
0:22:26and it might the room was dark and watch
0:22:29my little portable black-and-white TV
0:22:30and I i see a little movement and there
0:22:34shouldn't be a little movement your room
0:22:36at twelve o'clock on a friday and it was
0:22:39a roach in my room and you know even in
0:22:41Florida we're not talking about those
0:22:43ones that are you know the size of a
0:22:45pencil eraser know it's like a small cat
0:22:48oh it's curry and and it's a little
0:22:51insects that make noise like a pack of
0:22:53gum is literally the size of a pack of
0:22:56gum
0:22:57yes they're like liked and gum and they
0:22:59make an audible noise when they move and
0:23:02I ran out of my room of all the
0:23:05creatures I've had my room that was once
0:23:06had a corn snake in my room one time I
0:23:08dealt with that the but the the roaches
0:23:11are the worst because you don't know
0:23:12where they're coming from corn snake you
0:23:13find a ticket like a gentleman but that
0:23:15the roaches and you know all like so
0:23:17many of our troublesome animals if their
0:23:19head can fit throughout the rest of them
0:23:21can i was sleeping in a hotel in this
0:23:24middle of the czech republic one night a
0:23:26motel
0:23:27let's just let's call a spade a spade it
0:23:28was a motel
0:23:30and I turned off the lights and I heard
0:23:34that sound and I was like I'm too tired
0:23:38and I no roaches can't hurt me I'm too
0:23:41tired to deal with this and I just screw
0:23:44it and then one fell from the ceiling on
0:23:47me in the dark while I was sleeping and
0:23:52I i left six feet in the air and turn
0:23:55the light on as i was flying and the
0:23:58room was covered with these things that
0:24:00were like they were the size of packs of
0:24:03gum and black and the and so I was the
0:24:07whole rest of the night I was killing
0:24:10roaches United do anything I didn't stop
0:24:14the plague
0:24:16now i just made a mess i have one of my
0:24:19ear once
0:24:20oh yeah i mean not all the way in but he
0:24:22was curious he was curious since
0:24:24conversation is really going sideways
0:24:27yeah once i meant haha good in this here
0:24:35up
0:24:38oh that slow at satori make it suntory
0:24:54times now we're fine Stargate actually
0:24:57waiting to play Stargate the the
0:24:59much-improved you know son of defender
0:25:03as you know and we're playing Stargate
0:25:05and this guy was he's really good at
0:25:07Stargate he's real gross and real stinky
0:25:09and I wouldn't tell you his name but his
0:25:11name was pretty much stinky that was
0:25:14kind of his last stinky right yeah he's
0:25:17a worker snotboogie via yeah yeah he was
0:25:21he was he was going along and killing
0:25:23mutants and jump into the Stargate and
0:25:25he started shaking his is right foot and
0:25:27a roach crawled out of issue
0:25:29Oh welcome blocking the Florida stinky
0:25:32you're saying the roads got the road
0:25:35came there was stinky yeah
0:25:37and I i don't think it was doing second
0:25:39player he was refused he was riding was
0:25:41thinking it's ready little Wayne up my
0:25:48wildest one tax story i was walking down
0:25:52the street they witness this John it
0:25:54really really miss it going down the
0:25:57street and washington DC in the middle
0:25:59of the night one time and you know it on
0:26:01the East Coast a town houses brownstones
0:26:05have Stoops and if steps steps that come
0:26:08down and those steps have beautiful sort
0:26:11of cast-iron lintels at the bottom of
0:26:16the stairs right they have two big posts
0:26:19made of iron with but giant iron balls
0:26:23on the top at the bottom of the stairs
0:26:25be picturing this
0:26:26yeah I am I was walking down the
0:26:28sidewalk in a fairly nice neighborhood
0:26:30and one of these brownstones had the top
0:26:35of their of one of those posts had been
0:26:40sheared off somehow
0:26:42and it was hollow as they are and out of
0:26:46it was pouring like water flowing out of
0:26:51the top of this thing and down the sides
0:26:54and into the street roaches
0:26:56oh come on waves and waves just a
0:27:00constantly like thousands of roaches
0:27:04pouring out of this post down the sides
0:27:08all four sides and into the sidewalk
0:27:10industry and people were standing there
0:27:12at a healthy distance from this thing
0:27:15and marveling at it as if a fire hydrant
0:27:18was open and water was spilling into the
0:27:21street but it was it was a billion
0:27:23roaches
0:27:24what do you think brought them out
0:27:25coming from we're coming from their
0:27:28undersea layer and what was bringing
0:27:31them out was black magic
0:27:32mm it was the ugliest most awful thing I
0:27:36had ever seen it it it it it inspired me
0:27:39to think of new tortures that were that
0:27:44were as bad as being buried alive
0:27:47like for instance being stuffed down
0:27:49that hole
0:27:50you know or being buried alive in a
0:27:52place where there were that many roaches
0:27:54I mean they're you know as a as a man I
0:27:57am I'm contractually obligated at least
0:28:00once a month to think of some terrible
0:28:02terrible scenario where I die or him
0:28:06trapped or buried alive with a billion
0:28:11roaches
0:28:11yeah yeah I think that's pretty normal
0:28:13hopeless situation that you that you
0:28:15have been put into by an enemy for
0:28:18example
0:28:18yeah and this did not I did not have an
0:28:20awareness that such a terrible thing
0:28:22could exist until I saw this and then
0:28:24then I realized that even my worst
0:28:26fantasy was not it not as bad as the
0:28:29world could could drum up
0:28:31yeah I don't like I don't like swarming
0:28:34and you hit the funny part of it is if I
0:28:35if I were to place myself on a continuum
0:28:38I think I'm you know compared to a lot
0:28:41of people again having lived in Florida
0:28:42you know have having seen a roach come
0:28:44out of a Stargate player shoe I feel
0:28:47like on the American continuum excluding
0:28:50maybe Mississippi god bless them i think
0:28:52i'm on the amana i'm on the pretty left
0:28:55side of the curve in the shit I've been
0:28:58in the shit I got the thousand-yard
0:28:59stare
0:29:00I think there are people who are way way
0:29:02more freaked out by then the then I am
0:29:05about roaches but again like the
0:29:07Stargate player there are people who are
0:29:08not quite freaked out enough but I guess
0:29:11that's just that's a condition of life
0:29:12now you know like with rats i don't like
0:29:15rats don't like rats what about goth
0:29:18girl with white Pat Rapp what about pet
0:29:23rat on a on a little like with a cat
0:29:25collar on there like anchovies you know
0:29:27where if I know it's coming so to speak
0:29:29like I'm okay we just had to get rid of
0:29:31that the third rat at my kids school the
0:29:35third rad shredders turf and movie but
0:29:38wasn't that Orson don't like scary novel
0:29:40that they get that Orson Welles movie
0:29:42know which if you seen this television
0:29:46showed the Americans i have I i actually
0:29:50purchase it on my way to my TV we don't
0:29:53normally sit and talk about pop media i
0:29:55was curious what you thought about it
0:29:57actually
0:29:58well you know as a as a internationally
0:30:01famous fact checker
0:30:03my initial response to it was that I was
0:30:06pointing out all the light fixtures that
0:30:08were wrong and all the people that were
0:30:09wearing not era-appropriate glasses
0:30:12frame i wish i wasn't that guy that
0:30:14everybody watch me watch indiana jones
0:30:16last night and the part with the guys
0:30:18from the Army come and talk to him at
0:30:19the at the school
0:30:21all you do is stare at this one guy suit
0:30:22from fucking 1980 he was obviously
0:30:25wearing in 1980 suit
0:30:26yeah yeah and this I've got the the
0:30:29thing about this show is in 19min
0:30:311984-85 if you want anyone right ok very
0:30:35clearly like that transition that's
0:30:37right Reagan Reagan has like Jason Brown
0:30:39in tell people because i don't want no
0:30:42spoilers but I i think it's conceptually
0:30:45setting aside the girl from Felicity who
0:30:47I would eat off a cracker
0:30:49I i think it's consistently or she's so
0:30:51my type
0:30:52can we talk about her she's got no hips
0:30:54yes I didn't know me we're talking about
0:30:56before because you mentioned and I was
0:30:57like oh sure but i had no idea that
0:30:59she's bitchy saw her and said that's
0:31:01that's why did i see i see here and I'm
0:31:03like up there it is that's one of those
0:31:04Merlin girl she's got this big eyes
0:31:06yeah but so the premise of the show is
0:31:09that the that there are sleeper agents
0:31:11from the Soviet Union living in America
0:31:13as Americans basically for all practical
0:31:16purposes in the city and they were like
0:31:18raised as Americans yeah they're like
0:31:20KGB agents not allowed not allowed to
0:31:22speak Russian but they're dead but
0:31:25they're devoted to the cause and I think
0:31:27one of the interesting things about the
0:31:28show is that it reminds me of a time
0:31:31when soviet-style communism still seemed
0:31:36it is plausible to me in 1981 that
0:31:40people in America were still harboring
0:31:44sympathy with the Soviet Union I
0:31:46remember I remember a time when you know
0:31:49when it was plausible that there were
0:31:51people around who were still fellow
0:31:53travelers okay yeah absolutely
0:31:56yeah but so so that you know there are
0:31:58some impossibilities about the show but
0:32:00you know how much I love a spy show
0:32:02oh it's in it's very it's got all those
0:32:05else is you absolutely do i do as well
0:32:07don't come back to this involving Jason
0:32:09Bourne in a minute but yes and and it's
0:32:12got all the elements it should be a
0:32:15little better than it is but it's really
0:32:16good because it's got layers i think
0:32:18it's written well I think it's acted
0:32:20well they're just a few moments where
0:32:21I'm like those glasses are not from
0:32:24sometimes reason you're not just your
0:32:26not just kidding thats that's a big
0:32:28hang-up for you those classes are wrong
0:32:30yeah and everything is that what i can
0:32:32tell is there are four people working
0:32:34the set design of the show and 303 mr
0:32:39good are dynamite you know there's like
0:32:42I'm looking around and I'm like holy
0:32:44shit they got the stock us as pull-up
0:32:47socks with the guys socks they got that
0:32:49whole thing remember in 1981 when
0:32:51everybody had a weird brown and and mob
0:32:54quilt hanging on the wall behind the
0:32:56brass bell
0:32:57yeah and like country kitchen with 2 k's
0:32:59yeah or like a macrame plant holder that
0:33:03had some ferns in it and an owl and you
0:33:07know like 1981 very distinctive look and
0:33:09they get the cars right i'm always
0:33:12looking in the background shows like
0:33:13that to see the one car that's wrong and
0:33:16they all the cars are right i think
0:33:19that's a lot of work
0:33:20the clothes are right that is a lot of
0:33:22work they're just there a couple of
0:33:23things the lead actress has the wrong
0:33:24hair is no way somebody in 1981 had hair
0:33:27that that look that cool
0:33:29she's butBut saying that the person
0:33:33that's dressing her is putting her in a
0:33:36tease jeans but making them look
0:33:38contemporary like somebody's tailoring
0:33:41the clothes so that little bit so that
0:33:43they so that they are technically right
0:33:47right good night but that's a balance
0:33:49the striker you don't want to be like
0:33:51distracting
0:33:52yeah right you don't be maybe a little
0:33:54too Gloria Vanderbilt exactly remember
0:33:56remember how bad hi
0:33:58waisted jeans looked on women i do and
0:34:00we suffered through them for a direct I
0:34:02was very focused on just about 2-3
0:34:04inches down from that but I do remember
0:34:06and i think they really nailed that in
0:34:09this high-waisted jeans with a little
0:34:11tiny like alligator skin belt
0:34:13oh man I I was like a double dollar go
0:34:16around you get like a double belt
0:34:18remember that little belt-tightening
0:34:19with you get a lot of that stuff right
0:34:21and then every once in a while somebody
0:34:23comes on screen and it's like was the
0:34:26good person off today and somebody just
0:34:28loaned you their glasses like this and
0:34:31maybe I'm maybe I'm a weirdo maybe
0:34:33glasses don't matter to other people but
0:34:35come on I come with you I i watch for
0:34:38those things to you know and I always
0:34:39notice is e and you know there are
0:34:41people who have gone crazy with this and
0:34:44I guess that show with the winter in the
0:34:47elves or whatever there's like shit
0:34:49where you can go through and look at the
0:34:50vernacular elf winter elf winter that
0:34:53show on HBO with the the Peter Dingle
0:34:55guy and I know you know I met him it no
0:34:58really
0:34:59in college he seemed super smart so he
0:35:02comes on he comes on the show that
0:35:03hodgman and cabin and we're doing he's
0:35:05one of our guests will come on
0:35:07yeah and he said they're very very smart
0:35:10guy he's a he is he's exceptionally
0:35:12smart and also just saying that because
0:35:13he's small understand he's great he's
0:35:16very clean
0:35:16he's he's a clean and yes he's keeps
0:35:19himself very clean but he's a he's very
0:35:21articulate his parents he's also like
0:35:26he's really a mensch and and you know I
0:35:30think he's like he's got a little bit of
0:35:31a chip on his shoulder because everybody
0:35:33wants to compliment him on being
0:35:34articulated clean because he is
0:35:36literally small he's a little zippy done
0:35:38real well Peter but you know like but
0:35:41but yeah right I I it i challenge anyone
0:35:44to try and pat him on the head i think
0:35:45he would break your hand into seven
0:35:47places but but no he's won he's a
0:35:49wonderful guy had a blast with him
0:35:51easily hear more about that look like
0:35:53dick had some kind of you know was that
0:35:56was a rapier or a cutlass yet something
0:35:59that Cutlass he had some kind of value
0:36:00so you you was it mr. Hodgman somebody
0:36:02posted a photo of you guys hanging out
0:36:04and take haven't had some kind of sword
0:36:06yeah well one of our guests was a
0:36:09like a Quint athlete from the canadian
0:36:13olympic that lady right there
0:36:15yeah and she brought her fencing Sabres
0:36:18something and she and I actually fenced
0:36:21on the balcony of the chateau marmont
0:36:24and you know she she again like all
0:36:30great athletes she had economy of motion
0:36:33so I'm slashing away at the air and I'm
0:36:37saying come at me you know to the death
0:36:40and she's just like she was just carving
0:36:42our initials in my shirt and then then
0:36:46you know she made the fatal error of
0:36:47thinking that the duel was over there
0:36:50and your future looked away which point
0:36:53i dealt the fatal blow like like an hour
0:36:55later and and I got booed I got booed by
0:36:58everybody
0:36:59uh-huh because supposedly that she
0:37:02wasn't looking
0:37:03yeah this isn't the Olympics isn't does
0:37:05this cockamamie Olympic rules
0:37:06yeah that's right this isn't this is the
0:37:08real world dude but then-then cabin got
0:37:10ahold of my saber at some point and then
0:37:12he's you know I don't know you can't but
0:37:14i would not give that man a sword
0:37:15no I learned I learned the hard way yeah
0:37:18you know got one time he and Groucho
0:37:19we're talking about sources he's got a
0:37:23gradual story for every single I mean he
0:37:25has an anecdote about Groucho Marx that
0:37:27fits any case he is he is the chuck
0:37:29klosterman and the thurston moore of
0:37:31Groucho Marx anecdotes you know actually
0:37:34you cannot leave this history turns out
0:37:36legally you cannot have a rock-and-roll
0:37:37documentary and this is chuck klosterman
0:37:39and thurston moore and that guy who
0:37:41looks like Joey Ramone from my Rolling
0:37:43Stone david fricke oh yeah that guy
0:37:45can't stand to hear him talk like to
0:37:48hire check classroom never stop punching
0:37:49him
0:37:50well you know I his teeth is Johnny
0:37:52teeth
0:37:53the corollary is the is the punk rock
0:37:55documentary that has to have both flee
0:37:56and dave grohl doll yes
0:37:59yes yes he has something to say about
0:38:01every single punk rock band also also
0:38:04large Rick makes a lot of appearances in
0:38:06Iraqi memories my god i heard the
0:38:08greatest story please
0:38:10so a friend of mine who is in a rock
0:38:13band with the foot the famous eighties
0:38:16rocker who's gonna remain nameless just
0:38:20so that just so that are our fact
0:38:22checker listeners are going to have to
0:38:25do they're gonna have to do at least the
0:38:26legwork of remembering the 20 times
0:38:29we've talked about the person in the
0:38:30past you tell me later
0:38:31oh yeah some friend of mine potentially
0:38:34financial investment k with the famous
0:38:36put a very very very famous 80s rocker
0:38:39and they are now has all of his organs
0:38:41intact
0:38:42he's still alive and we are ok I'm sorry
0:38:45they are on tour they were on tour in
0:38:47Asia recently on one of these big
0:38:51package tours where its lair and it's a
0:38:56you know it's what I dimebag darrell is
0:38:59dead but the breast of the guys from
0:39:01from the done bagged derelict explosion
0:39:05and all those all those bands anthrax
0:39:08they're all there and the headliner is
0:39:10Metallica and so this buddy of mine and
0:39:15some other dudes from like up-and-coming
0:39:18metal bands that i could not name are
0:39:22standing around backstage at the BBQ pit
0:39:24at one of these big massive metal shows
0:39:28in Japan and James Hadfield walks up
0:39:32this way it's like what's up guys oh my
0:39:36god that's so cool
0:39:37so these you know these three guys are
0:39:38like oh shit head
0:39:41hey James Hadfield what's up bro and
0:39:44they're all standing around they all
0:39:45have like leather wrist bands that are
0:39:47six inches wide and and they all have
0:39:50long goatees and understand the colo
0:39:54would some how it's going you know rock
0:39:57and roll and James Hetfield's talking to
0:40:00him and and somebody you know kind of
0:40:03takes the initiative one of these guys
0:40:06kinda gets a little bold
0:40:08there's always one there's always one is
0:40:10like you know you know what i like about
0:40:13you guys
0:40:14james hetfield is like you you made it
0:40:18through the nineties without like you
0:40:22know doing anything embarrassing
0:40:24musically and change that feels like
0:40:29thanks man you know appreciate it hey
0:40:33guys can I keeps pressing his luck its
0:40:34like I mean you know what I'm gonna stop
0:40:37right there that lets his gracious
0:40:39you're gonna get like a lot of metal
0:40:41dudes you know a lot of guys let me
0:40:43apply that state like a lot of guys your
0:40:45age you know they play they tried to
0:40:46like you know make it like techno record
0:40:49or whatever and James Hetfield's looks
0:40:51like the looks of these three guys these
0:40:54three just like you know young dudes and
0:40:57it goes alright can you imagine us to
0:41:00imagine as playing like to a click track
0:41:04with Lars and then it goes
0:41:07duh and does this air drumming like like
0:41:10duh dum don't go ahead as hell did this
0:41:14hell did this and this friend of mine I
0:41:17mean they're all their chins just hit
0:41:19the floor because large is standing 15
0:41:21feet well my god and Hadfield is like
0:41:23can you imagine us trying to play to a
0:41:25click track with this ding-dong
0:41:27duh I'm ward oil and kidding no and this
0:41:31buddy of mine was like it was basically
0:41:33the most badass thing I've ever seen
0:41:35James Hetfield openly mocking Lars in
0:41:39front of everybody and and I is
0:41:43inconceivable inconceivable metal moment
0:41:47and here and here it happened to it
0:41:50happened at this i am one kiss away from
0:41:52this story a man that I know very well
0:41:55was standing in that group and says that
0:41:58this happened
0:41:59am i esteem for James Hadfield goes
0:42:02through the roof
0:42:03you know he's talked about half a dozen
0:42:05times he's the good one at field is the
0:42:07good one there one after that some kind
0:42:09of monster thing I could barely I can
0:42:11barely stand to see any of their faces
0:42:13that was that was that was a slog
0:42:15yeah so apparently it's not a mystery
0:42:21it's not a mystery james hetfield that
0:42:23larger orange is the worst drummer and
0:42:25the first of all you don't think he was
0:42:28just fun and like for the kids
0:42:30mm I don't know this is here starting
0:42:34pretty hard you know
0:42:36ok we're definitely coming to that in 30
0:42:38seconds
0:42:39here's the thing as something like that
0:42:41james hetfield has been through a lot of
0:42:43meetings I don't think that's the kind
0:42:45of thing you say once maybe not i'm no
0:42:48no here's what I'm saying I'm saying
0:42:51that like talking to this dumbass is
0:42:52probably that is probably i'm just
0:42:54guessing that was not the first time
0:42:55that that revelation occurred to him in
0:42:57that particularly clownish format you
0:42:59think he's playing to the cheap seats i
0:43:01do not i think i do not i think i think
0:43:03he doesn't like the drumming of his
0:43:07drummer and they're in a business
0:43:08relationship that he's obligated to be
0:43:11in because it's probably pretty
0:43:12lucrative it's like the way gene Simmons
0:43:14talks about Paul Stanley what you say
0:43:17about pasta alle gene simmons is
0:43:19incredibly dismissive of Paul Stanley
0:43:21like to display such a small little man
0:43:23is a terrible person is that he subject
0:43:25is the Donald Trump of metal
0:43:27hey and you know and and you know I wish
0:43:33and get into that ok
0:43:34sporting talk about music probably but
0:43:36but but so so Lars Ulrich the idea being
0:43:39that you know he's got he's got moves
0:43:41and stuff but you can really keep the
0:43:43beat
0:43:44oh he's the worst is that right you know
0:43:46I'm a time when really she's probably I
0:43:48don't know the guy he probably find have
0:43:50a beer with but i don't think so i think
0:43:51it would be terrible to have a beer with
0:43:53yeah he is on that he is definitely in
0:43:57the supergroup of worst musicians ever
0:43:59really Lars Lars Ulrich on the drums
0:44:03anthony kiedis and vocals all do you let
0:44:06you literally not get me started your
0:44:08sin case the finest and what you're
0:44:09saying that John erotic you're not just
0:44:11saying like it's not about the shaggs
0:44:13we're talking about people who like had
0:44:15records may have advanced a gold record
0:44:17and have a reprehensible level of non
0:44:21skill at what are supposedly don't more
0:44:23on guitar haha
0:44:25this is a black eye in that one video is
0:44:29there is there is the doors guy right
0:44:31yeah yeah i think the video for light my
0:44:33fire on at solving he's got a big shiner
0:44:35yeah I walked into a door nah but I was
0:44:39good
0:44:40ok so who we ll be there there are a
0:44:43couple of guys in the doors that make it
0:44:44into this band but but but Densmore for
0:44:47his parts i mean John I don't like the
0:44:49doors no listening to listening to his
0:44:51guitar part so loud I think it's just
0:44:53like listening to somebody throw a
0:44:54guitar and a flight of stairs could even
0:44:58pick up a coffee
0:45:00I've never either i like a couple doors
0:45:02songs but I you know I've really had I
0:45:04State John and put time into and I still
0:45:07don't get the doors you know I feel like
0:45:10I should feel stupid like you know it's
0:45:11like my friends who can't get into the
0:45:13Smiths are selecting new york and i like
0:45:16I understand you know they just can't
0:45:17get into it but I have a lot of really
0:45:19smart friends for him the doors is
0:45:22probably one of their top five favorite
0:45:23bands of all time I think it might be
0:45:25some kind of mass hysteria I just don't
0:45:26understand it
0:45:27I'm starting my I'm starting to feel
0:45:30myself starting to change my 1 i'm
0:45:33starting to not understand culture
0:45:37anymore culture Big C ok really that
0:45:43you're reaching for your gun
0:45:45I just don't know is that were
0:45:47documented the other night with that
0:45:48line in it you don't get it done
0:45:50I've been watching live and what I'm
0:45:51sorry I'm feeling but I've been watching
0:45:53something about the Holocaust every
0:45:54night and last night I took a little
0:45:57decide route and watch Frank Capra's why
0:45:59we fight off which is pretty pretty
0:46:01great propaganda there's a great line
0:46:03whenever I hear the word culture I reach
0:46:04for my gun
0:46:05yeah alright who said that it was a
0:46:08pretty early national socialist quote
0:46:10you know maybe know but let's get back
0:46:13to the important John your American know
0:46:15I've been watching a lot of Holocaust
0:46:16stuff lately too and it isn't so much
0:46:17about the family affect me tell you
0:46:19about the film's h2 film stay the actual
0:46:22literal films they shot at the camps in
0:46:241945 watch that for an hour and then you
0:46:28know what I did you know fuck you I i
0:46:30sat down and watched that entire
0:46:32six-part outwits thing on x201 I told
0:46:35you about of the bbc1 yeah after last
0:46:37phone call you talk about this is a
0:46:38literally
0:46:39I seen her pic from beginning to end
0:46:41doesn't that make you happy
0:46:43oh my god it was so well done it yeah it
0:46:44was a great party was a great show and
0:46:46also the message of it is like no one
0:46:50invented the Holocaust it was the
0:46:51product of it was the product of a
0:46:54hundred people all trying to do their
0:46:56jobs a little bit better
0:46:58yes out yes a hundred percent and then
0:47:01but I guess what
0:47:03well two things occurred to me and I'm
0:47:04really doing here I apologize did two
0:47:06things that occurred to me please
0:47:08continue two things I'm first of all I
0:47:10guess I know I mean I knew that the camp
0:47:12started as concentration camps in the
0:47:15true sense of the word not as death
0:47:16camps right or I guess they were kind of
0:47:19you know slave labor camps but they're
0:47:20mostly places to put you know religious
0:47:23initially there were places to put
0:47:26Russian but captured sounds like they
0:47:29got it worse than just about anybody
0:47:31yeah but nobody's counting the Russian
0:47:33dead in world war two because it's like
0:47:3620 million people you can't even count
0:47:38that high but I was as two things struck
0:47:41me is an amount of scholar here but it
0:47:43struck me first of all in my head I go
0:47:45okay
0:47:46Nazi death camps 1942 1945 like april of
0:47:51nineteen forty-five i'm imagining that
0:47:53there are as gas and crematoria for like
0:47:55six solid years and that was simply not
0:47:57the case it wasn't really kicking in
0:47:59until like 42 43 and then they were
0:48:01already kind of shutting it down to 44
0:48:03did all that in like three years
0:48:06yeah yeah they were killing 15,000
0:48:0820,000 people a day
0:48:11hey / camp I mean they once they got it
0:48:14they were like let's get this done
0:48:16well there's the guy and there's like
0:48:18the guy you know it's like the famous
0:48:19toyota that was before they went to the
0:48:22Toyota plant and I see what you're doing
0:48:24here at your blanket if this guy this
0:48:27guy
0:48:28RCMP Tony again up god-king fucking song
0:48:33but the longer it goes the trip like and
0:48:35he's like wow you guys got a good thing
0:48:36going on here let's see what we can do a
0:48:38over here
0:48:39yeah you don't so close but the second
0:48:41thing you know what really grabbed me is
0:48:43I don't know if this is the source of
0:48:44your anecdote but on our Hitler and
0:48:46stuff
0:48:47visit when you told the story about the
0:48:49the French people
0:48:51and parents separating the the mothers
0:48:54from their children and how it was the
0:48:56french that we're doing it it's like
0:48:58when I think that was and watched I've
0:49:00been so steeped in Nazis lately i could
0:49:02be getting the wrong i think that was
0:49:04from the Auschwitz one
0:49:05yeah yeah yeah i mean and i can
0:49:07recommend that to our listeners if
0:49:08you're if you're looking for a lot you
0:49:09know what we should just have a an
0:49:10annotated bibliography of all the bring
0:49:12down things you can listen you could
0:49:13watch on your television i have a roku
0:49:16with 700 channels i have an apple TV
0:49:18with about 70 purchase movies on it and
0:49:22I spent everything about Paul look after
0:49:24my family goes to sleep I sit in the
0:49:26dark and watch things about the
0:49:27Holocaust by myself
0:49:28yeah but that seems healthy that own
0:49:30Scientology I've been thinking a lot
0:49:32about the ontology look good you learn
0:49:34you grow your ground on top huh yeah um
0:49:39I don't know
0:49:40you know I go I go around the world
0:49:41here's the here's the problem i go out
0:49:43in the world I live in Seattle the
0:49:47biggest problem we have here is that
0:49:50sometimes there will be four people at a
0:49:53four-way stop and no one will go first
0:49:56and all four people will end up dying
0:49:59that was that's like to think that is
0:50:02the biggest problem natural causes get
0:50:04all died of natural causes that all
0:50:05asphyxiate on there on the fumes from
0:50:08there idling engines because no one can
0:50:10figure out they gotta mpi they call a
0:50:12Travel a moment you gently pull over
0:50:14pull over and listen to StoryCorps you
0:50:17cry a little bit you fucking die in your
0:50:18Volvo died in your Volvo that's how
0:50:20that's the worst thing that happens in
0:50:21Washington State you know a couple of
0:50:24rock'n'roll county administrator on will
0:50:26be for dead people have been for boys
0:50:29and the thing is when they die they're
0:50:30there they take their feet off their
0:50:32brakes and the four Volvo's all creeped
0:50:34into the intersection at the same moment
0:50:36and make a swastika haha
0:50:39that's the worst thing that happens
0:50:42that's and yes mr. and all the other
0:50:46onlookers come by first they're going to
0:50:47they're gonna give him CPR but then they
0:50:49just hit spoofs uh but i'm watching
0:50:54Holocaust documentaries and reading
0:50:56books about the UH now you might think
0:50:59now I'm afraid I am afraid to tell you
0:51:01this but my thing now is the war in
0:51:03Bosnia oh that was bad i'm reading all
0:51:06this stuff about Bosnia and and and so i
0:51:12might I thought my head with this
0:51:14information which is real and then I go
0:51:17out into the world and i'm trying to
0:51:18interact with people who are mad at each
0:51:22other because somebody said somebody you
0:51:25know tweeted about Steubenville Ohio but
0:51:28used the wrong hashtag and I'm thinking
0:51:31right I'm thinking 20 20,000 people were
0:51:35gassed on this day in history it in at
0:51:40Auschwitz 20,000 people today you know
0:51:42like babies you know about how about
0:51:46some about systemized rate in our adult
0:51:49life like that is 1990s yet oh no i mean
0:51:53like both nothing about the systematic
0:51:55part it's like 1994 and that was
0:51:57happening 1994 was happening here this
0:52:01is our this is our link i mean i don't
0:52:03know i mean to sound you know know
0:52:05people walking out of their houses and
0:52:07getting sniped by their next-door
0:52:09neighbors because they are because
0:52:12they're Muslim Bosnians instead of
0:52:15Orthodox Bosnians and I don't know how
0:52:20to contextualize the one whom the one
0:52:23humanity and my present humanity
0:52:26except except in a way that casts the my
0:52:31present humanity the one that I interact
0:52:33with every day in Seattle in a
0:52:35terrifying light like I this was the
0:52:38problem i had when i walked across
0:52:39Europe I is why i was perceiving
0:52:42everyone as a dormant
0:52:45mass killer and I look around my fellow
0:52:49citizens in Seattle and I'm i cannot
0:52:52take away the feeling that everyone here
0:52:56is just waiting to be a bureaucrat in
0:53:00some kind of like a systematic death
0:53:05machine if they are just given if
0:53:09they're just given like twenty percent
0:53:11off on their next Boober ride you know
0:53:15what I mean like oh it's just it just
0:53:17seems like it just seems like the stakes
0:53:19of everything and this is why this is
0:53:22why cause I'm I'm just turning against
0:53:24culture of all kinds on you you wanna
0:53:26get back to the capital C culture
0:53:28because people people are talking people
0:53:31because I wrote that punk rock article
0:53:33that that was based on the conversation
0:53:36that you and I had on our podcast i
0:53:38wrote an article for the Seattle Weekly
0:53:39about punk rock and i took a strident
0:53:44tone i took my typical declarative tone
0:53:46uu inhabited the view point where
0:53:49instead of saying I do not like olives i
0:53:52said i love suck and if you like olives
0:53:56are an idiot's and to me that is the bet
0:53:59is essentially the same as saying is
0:54:01they still became with you guys you guys
0:54:03I do not prefer olives at the end no
0:54:06good essays begin with
0:54:08fuck you if you like olives shut-eye
0:54:12normal i don't mind to maintain when he
0:54:14can make his best looks like what it
0:54:16dear audience
0:54:19fuck you a band this was this or this
0:54:22article within the first two days of it
0:54:25being published was the most read
0:54:26article in the history of the Seattle
0:54:28Weekly and had a hundred and fifty
0:54:29thousand unique views by like x 72 hours
0:54:33bananas and a thousand the lab the last
0:54:36time I heard it a thousand comments and
0:54:40been growing and I was you know I was
0:54:44can I was impressed first of all about
0:54:46about ninety percent of the responses
0:54:48that made their way to me made it
0:54:49updated all the way through to me were
0:54:50positive generally positive like an
0:54:52either
0:54:54yes i agree with you or I disagree with
0:54:56you but it is hilarious
0:54:57good job
0:54:58they were sensible yeah but this ten
0:55:00percent of people who so strongly
0:55:03identified with punk as a concept house
0:55:07a strong so strongly identified
0:55:09themselves in their lives with this with
0:55:11this cultural little beanie cap that you
0:55:15know that they that they basically
0:55:17confirmed every ridiculous bias that I
0:55:21every exaggerated bias that I wrote in
0:55:23my article they confirmed it in spades
0:55:25with their death threats and they're you
0:55:29know they're like uh you suck because
0:55:32your dad had a job comments and you know
0:55:36and like you don't know anything about
0:55:39anything because fuck you you haven't
0:55:43been to my all ages venue in orlando and
0:55:46all this stuff and I'm just like as at
0:55:48as much as my response to it I mean
0:55:50definitely one of the things I realized
0:55:52was maybe if I am seeking a larger
0:55:54audience
0:55:55I should prepare people for for what i
0:55:59consider to be a fairly hilarious
0:56:01declarative style i should give them a
0:56:05little like advanced notice like oh by
0:56:07the way I don't really give a fuck about
0:56:09your thing just an asshole but I feel
0:56:14like that I feel like it but that should
0:56:16be apparent just from the picture just
0:56:18from the picture of me at that they have
0:56:20the head of the article you look at me
0:56:22and you're like oh this guy come on
0:56:24let's look at this asshole but but also
0:56:27I came out the other side feeling like
0:56:29culture really really punk-rock really
0:56:34it's all it's all just this guy's Muslim
0:56:39that guy's Orthodox and it all leads to
0:56:41one thing now in my head which is that
0:56:44one day this this group of skinheads
0:56:47puts that group of skinheads up against
0:56:49the wall
0:56:50I can't get I can't break this this dark
0:56:55feeling about humans and and all of
0:57:00their little all of their little etsy
0:57:03cufflinks and all of their all of the
0:57:06doilies on the backs of their couches
0:57:09and everybody's you know like the effort
0:57:13they put into getting the earwax out and
0:57:15the nose hairs trimmed it all just seems
0:57:18like shaving a pig and I had and so what
0:57:24it is doing is it's putting this
0:57:25distance between me and my books even
0:57:28i'm looking at my books and I'm like mm
0:57:30it's a bunch of self-justification a lot
0:57:34of it a lot of it is just like I think i
0:57:40could put i think i could pull for books
0:57:42out of my shelves that I would take with
0:57:47me you know like Carrie to the next wave
0:57:51and the rest of it is all just it's just
0:57:59people writing for me novels and people
0:58:03people trying to justify what their
0:58:07grandfathers did and a lot of its
0:58:10variations on a theme around i mean i
0:58:15think this especially on the internet
0:58:17with what you're describing here which
0:58:19is that you know they're certainly
0:58:20there's certainly no dearth of rants and
0:58:25different kinds of polemic but and when
0:58:29those when you're pulling when one's
0:58:31polemic reaches people on the other side
0:58:34of the fence it just it usually does
0:58:37lead to just a shouting match regardless
0:58:38of how smart or stupid the polemic was
0:58:40but you know not so far off early
0:58:43etsy cufflinks i think i feel more and
0:58:46more pressure not just me but I mean I
0:58:50think I pressure on people in general
0:58:52want more pressure to serve the audience
0:58:55that you decided to identify with and so
0:58:58and but you but in you writing an
0:59:00alternative weekly taking that tone take
0:59:04some things such a strong point of view
0:59:07on that tone and and not coming at it
0:59:09from you know as an insider or not
0:59:12coming at it from anywhere inside the me
0:59:14who's more inside
0:59:15well you should come I'll ages club in
0:59:17orlando I've been that all ages club in
0:59:19orlando and you
0:59:20what I'm not paying for dollars for a
0:59:23Fanta well a lot of the stuff that i
0:59:25read from people who i like a lot and
0:59:27are really smart and produce something
0:59:29like what you're talking about here
0:59:30do you still taste and I do this all the
0:59:33time anytime I have something with
0:59:35strong point of view i will have an
0:59:37element of you guys to it where I feel
0:59:39like I need to say first of all I just
0:59:41want to say yeah I can't do it
0:59:43number 10 I'm just saying though the
0:59:45number two you guys just this seriously
0:59:48and the thing is it doesn't fucking
0:59:49matter you can say all of those things
0:59:51all you want a good editor would cut all
0:59:53of those out and cut straight to the
0:59:54lead which is here what here's what you
0:59:56have to say and people can agree or
0:59:58disagree with that but
0:59:58disagree with that but
1:00:00you know there's no because this is what
1:00:01happened to Galileo he was like I've
1:00:05been reading a been reading Copernicus
1:00:07and i agree with them the Sun revolves
1:00:09around for the Earth revolves around the
1:00:11Sun and mix them up to
1:00:12I had the Sun worth whatever I forget it
1:00:14forget sometimes it seems like the Sun
1:00:16revolves around the earth
1:00:18this is the problem you know he said he
1:00:20said I agree with this guy this was you
1:00:22know this is 50 years ago whatever bye
1:00:23agree with them and he didn't say i was
1:00:27saying that from Galileo's perspectives
1:00:29and I know and and and and he didn't say
1:00:32turn into dick campus you know one of
1:00:34the most talked-about you don't know
1:00:36what you're talking about heliocentrism
1:00:38he said that you ever notice that Peter
1:00:40until he he didn't say you guys guys
1:00:44guys I know what I'm going to say sounds
1:00:47radical and might upset the entire power
1:00:50structure of our heavily religion based
1:00:52society so they pushed him down they
1:00:55push them down and they made him that
1:00:56they really you know they really held
1:00:57his head in the toilet and flushed it a
1:01:01couple of times and said yeah what do
1:01:04you say now what do you say now I mean
1:01:06this is no this is no fun people have
1:01:08been laughing together I'm not laughing
1:01:09but people have tisk tisk and shook
1:01:12their heads at Galileo for ever since
1:01:13five hundred years I have been I don't
1:01:18know about you I don't know enough to
1:01:20disk but both just came because he liked
1:01:24usually you know he didn't stand his
1:01:26ground get burned at the stake
1:01:28whatever but I but something there's a
1:01:32couple things and I'm trying to teach
1:01:34that you're teasing out here what one is
1:01:35this theme of once you have thought a
1:01:38lot about zyklon-b business
1:01:42relationships and the people who
1:01:43supplied the drop them into little mesh
1:01:45tube it's hard to take public zoning
1:01:50meetings that seriously
1:01:52well it's not that it's about public
1:01:54stoning meetings are maybe the thing to
1:01:55take most serial yet property rights and
1:01:58but but i was reading an interesting
1:01:59article the other day that ma and the
1:02:02thing that the thing that dropped out of
1:02:04it the little the little quote the drop
1:02:06document and it was one of these things
1:02:08where the writer had to see
1:02:10he knew he knew that what he was saying
1:02:14was going to be breezed over by most
1:02:17readers and so he had to say it three
1:02:19times in order to make sure that we got
1:02:24what he was saying but what he was
1:02:26saying was that he was kind of
1:02:29paraphrasing oliver wendell holmes and
1:02:31he was saying to the point of democracy
1:02:34is just that we live democratically if
1:02:40we are living democratically that then
1:02:42democracy has fulfilled its purpose the
1:02:45point of democracy is not to create a
1:02:49better society it is not to make sure
1:02:53there are no poor it is not to make sure
1:02:56the kids do not go hungry the point of
1:03:00democracy is just that we are Democrat
1:03:04that we are democratic and it does not
1:03:08end in mind is the process that
1:03:10yeah Primus exactly and we we constantly
1:03:13make we constantly make the mistake of
1:03:15thinking on both sides of you know the
1:03:18American political spectrum that the
1:03:20point of democracy is two is that we
1:03:24reach a consensus on all these topics or
1:03:28that the middle and everybody gets a
1:03:29vote on how we round this off so yeah
1:03:32that the majority is going to rule and
1:03:34therefore the majority has got to find
1:03:37the way to this but to the truth i guess
1:03:42and we spend all of our time yelling at
1:03:45each other when really democracy is
1:03:48succeed in and that is the that is it
1:03:53the end like democracy is the process
1:03:56works there is no other goal and but it
1:04:04a different approach than most people
1:04:05would say well yeah and and that then
1:04:08that's why you know that's why reading
1:04:09and i was like huh
1:04:11and-and-and with that in mind
1:04:15it feels like all the disputes are
1:04:21recapitulation of the same disputes they
1:04:26are all if we know that on one end there
1:04:31is democracy and on the other end there
1:04:32are death camps and in between there are
1:04:37lots of things at stake but it's always
1:04:42been hard for me to get down at the
1:04:44level of standing out in front of the
1:04:46natural food co-op with a with a
1:04:48clipboard and stopping people to talk
1:04:50about the Clean Air Act i mean i i've
1:04:54done it I but it's hard for me to it's
1:04:58hard for me to be that invested in that
1:05:01level of like this next incremental step
1:05:05is really what I'm devoting myself to
1:05:07but but I'm having a really hard time
1:05:13living out at the living out of the
1:05:15fringe to neither neither fringe place
1:05:21is very comfortable
1:05:22yeah I I feel the same way um you know
1:05:27another thing is i guess it's helpful to
1:05:31figure out what you know how we're going
1:05:34to finally democracy means but the first
1:05:36thing comes to mind for me is democracy
1:05:37in the same way as being like social
1:05:38media in a sense that with social media
1:05:40each of us tend to think of it in one
1:05:44way or another as publishing we publish
1:05:45something we talk about it
1:05:46somebody published something and we
1:05:48talked about it but you know I wonder
1:05:51how many people who are heavily involved
1:05:52in social media would would want to
1:05:55participate if all they could do is read
1:05:57what other people had to say and in
1:05:59democracy we see most interested in
1:06:02democracy in the sense that we get to
1:06:03vote arm and I think for my guess is
1:06:07that for most people it's not as
1:06:08interesting there's lots of other people
1:06:10voting too because then that breaks
1:06:12straight down into the partisan blahdy
1:06:13blah blah let's do about this again on
1:06:15Twitter kind of stuff
1:06:16that's why i have so much Aloha for
1:06:19things like the ACLU and for Judaism in
1:06:21general general because the ACLU is not
1:06:24doesn't really care what your point of
1:06:25view is they just want to make sure you
1:06:26have a way to say it and I just see did
1:06:29I just take a glimpse of the matrix
1:06:30there you might have
1:06:32it's gone now alright have it then i
1:06:35also have this way i can never do this
1:06:37but I have an admiration for this
1:06:38culture and Judaism of just arguing all
1:06:40the time for the sake of argument I mean
1:06:42it's really part it's it's part of what
1:06:45you do if you're if you're going to be
1:06:47in a scholarly tradition am I wrong like
1:06:50a lot of what you do is talk about what
1:06:52this means and what is right and and
1:06:55that's it's not like you're ever going
1:06:56to end it and go you know you which mall
1:06:58you know it this is the whole point is
1:07:01to have this argument that's what we do
1:07:02and you never think of it as an argument
1:07:04I mean it's just it's a conversation
1:07:05that goes on and on and on and involves
1:07:08and sometimes somebody make it a dinner
1:07:09in that makes it into the book the final
1:07:12stitches what the culture is I said this
1:07:14the other day and tweeted it was and I
1:07:15meant it sir
1:07:16sardonically but now i'm now I'm
1:07:18thinking about it differently based on
1:07:20what you're saying like I said another
1:07:22seven billion people in the world and i
1:07:23can't wait until each one finds their
1:07:25voice and I i meant it in the sense that
1:07:29we cannot possibly we cannot possibly
1:07:32sustain this we cannot possibly
1:07:35sustained through seven billion people
1:07:37the amount of like narcissistic self
1:07:41reflection that the that the 20 million
1:07:45Americans who are on Twitter right now
1:07:47are indulging themselves in but maybe
1:07:51what you're saying is what like seven
1:07:54billion people all arguing
1:07:57simultaneously will create some kind of
1:08:04ticker tape
1:08:06of of consensus knowledge is it depends
1:08:16on signal
1:08:18yeah maybe i'm just i can I mean I I'm
1:08:22very cynical about this i have to admit
1:08:23and I this is the fifth time probably i
1:08:25set it on here but it always it always
1:08:27strikes me that you know that people are
1:08:31so much more interested in persuading
1:08:33other people to a think that the think
1:08:36the way that they do even if it's really
1:08:38fucked up silly way of thinking but then
1:08:40to be thinking away that comports with
1:08:43how that would be advantageous to me
1:08:45there's not that many people who spend
1:08:47all day going out there and trying to
1:08:49listen to other people to develop a
1:08:51better view point i don't but the point
1:08:53is in in all these cases what I'm
1:08:55getting out poorly is that all the
1:08:57people who crow about how great all
1:08:58these things are are mostly just did
1:09:00their current a lot about themselves
1:09:02people who love democracy love their
1:09:04their democracy the people of social
1:09:05media love their social media the people
1:09:07who have freedom love their freedom the
1:09:10it's just that there are these these
1:09:11increasingly useless and slippery
1:09:15capital letter nouns that we fight over
1:09:17all the time and I'm not sure how far we
1:09:19get with it because you know it really
1:09:21is more about talking and listening and
1:09:24that is never clear then we start
1:09:26yelling at each other about politics as
1:09:28i said at nauseam and gets back to this
1:09:30old idea of mine we said again before
1:09:33which is like when's the last time you
1:09:34change your mind cause somebody yelled
1:09:36action called you dumb ass
1:09:37I mean there's so much of that going on
1:09:39there's not that many people out there
1:09:40going to show me how i'm a dumbass
1:09:41because i want to get better at this
1:09:43democracy i want ultimately this is the
1:09:46thing about the Bosnian war that this is
1:09:48what is so dispiriting about it is that
1:09:50for however many years 50 years they all
1:09:55lived under Tito more or less peacefully
1:09:59side-by-side and whatever their disputes
1:10:03were whatever the arguments were
1:10:04whatever the
1:10:08whatever the whatever they arrived at
1:10:10whatever their process was ultimately
1:10:13when there was nobody watching they just
1:10:16killed each other because of what their
1:10:17religion was or or what they perceived
1:10:20their ethnicity and ethnicities were
1:10:22although they were all slobs as far as I
1:10:25could tell anybody anybody anybody
1:10:28that's not a slob looked at the mall
1:10:30been like I don't know y'all look like
1:10:31slobs your blonde your darker Yeltsin
1:10:34that big noses but their little my new
1:10:37differences in there it's lava tudes was
1:10:41enough and and they and they killed each
1:10:44other not i mean just brutally just the
1:10:47worst kind of brutal like ethnic
1:10:49cleansing and so I mean they're not
1:10:53dissimilar from the cities and the Hutus
1:10:56I mean same thing I mean that the in
1:10:59Rwanda it was I think worse because it
1:11:02was being done with hatchets is cut your
1:11:04arms off but but but that said like if
1:11:09you are a parent and someone comes and
1:11:11takes your child on your handed and then
1:11:13kills them in front of you it's pretty
1:11:15bad no matter what weapon they use but
1:11:18but so I so I listened to our national
1:11:21debate and I listened to the peanut the
1:11:23way that we're pushing them and pushing
1:11:25the ball back and forth were pushing
1:11:27pushing the debate we're making the case
1:11:30for all these different things and I
1:11:34just I am drawn back to the drawing
1:11:42board
1:11:42to the the apparatus that it's
1:11:44supporting that i'm i'm i'm i'm drawn to
1:11:48the the Capitol building in Washington
1:11:50DC and I pray to God that it that it's
1:11:55that it stands you know i'm drawn back
1:11:58to the to the process because I'm no
1:12:02longer interested so much in the
1:12:04conversation because without the process
1:12:07the conversation just it devolves
1:12:09instantly you know like like we we have
1:12:13pushed that we have pushed the human
1:12:14rights ball pretty far in the last
1:12:16hundred years but in 1994 in in Bosnia
1:12:22and in 1996 in Rwanda when was it and
1:12:26remember me soon
1:12:27and unlike them i mean the ball got
1:12:30pushed all the way back all the way back
1:12:33to where it started like in the blink of
1:12:37an eye and it didn't matter that there
1:12:39were that they were modern countries or
1:12:42that inner none of it mattered and the
1:12:45this this this feeling that i because
1:12:48what happened was I said somebody a
1:12:50friend of mine wrote me based on
1:12:52something i said on the podcast is quote
1:12:54the Martin Luther King quote where I
1:12:55said the the arc of history is long but
1:13:00it bends toward justice
1:13:03and this friend of mine wrote me he was
1:13:04like do you really believe that
1:13:06and you know and I said it kind of at
1:13:11the time
1:13:11sort of like hopeful / aspirational and
1:13:17also a little bit like here's a cliche
1:13:19but you know the art
1:13:24history is long and on the one hand and
1:13:28part of that length is that sometimes it
1:13:31it goes all the way back to the start
1:13:34I don't see that happening in San
1:13:40Francisco but died but i also have not
1:13:48you know i am not a hundred percent
1:13:49clear as the father of a daughter I'm
1:13:54not a hundred percent clear how to
1:13:55advise her as she grows up
1:13:58like what kind of world she lives and I
1:14:00don't want to just be here I don't want
1:14:03to say don't get into a car with a bunch
1:14:06of strange boys who have been drinking
1:14:08and feel like I've done as much as I can
1:14:11do but I'm at a loss
1:14:19well how do you how do you know um how
1:14:22do you know when it's going well with
1:14:25the process I mean and I i know you you
1:14:29have to keep a certain removed from
1:14:30Daniel day-lewis don't think about that
1:14:31Lincoln movie which I watched a couple
1:14:32times and I thought was pretty great and
1:14:34just the whole idea of like how and I
1:14:36don't again I don't know how much of it
1:14:37is precisely factual but the whole idea
1:14:39of like all the you know everything you
1:14:42would ever hear about in terms of you
1:14:44know smokey backroom stuff to get off
1:14:46the wheeling and dealing and bribing and
1:14:48this end of that to get the 13th
1:14:51amendment across you know i mean in that
1:14:55is in some sense the system working
1:14:57right i mean if that's how it's always
1:14:58been there
1:14:59I don't think there's ever been a day
1:15:00where everybody just showed up and was
1:15:02no Bolin agreed by mutual assent that
1:15:04everything will be great if that's part
1:15:06of the process the right i mean that's
1:15:07part of that as they say the sausage
1:15:08getting made right and how do you have
1:15:10you known in the middle of the bloodiest
1:15:13war in American history where where you
1:15:17know where Sherman burned atlanta he was
1:15:19burning atlanta at but that's have fed
1:15:21that very moment I haven't seen the
1:15:23movie but but but he had to do I mean
1:15:25according to the point of this movie had
1:15:27to do some pretty pretty big for honesty
1:15:29here to do some pretty big fitting
1:15:31because that the none of it was that
1:15:35even people who were sort of probable
1:15:38the amendment were saying well you know
1:15:40if this war is gonna end and we think it
1:15:43might be basically they're making the
1:15:45south is making moves to say hey look
1:15:47let's talk about how we can win this
1:15:48thing down this is this is two or three
1:15:50months before the end and Lincoln's like
1:15:52going on you know we're still gonna make
1:15:54this happen and so they go and kind of
1:15:56systematically you know person by person
1:15:58it's a really good movie target they can
1:16:01get to vote for it because it's going to
1:16:03be such a close about anyway I'm just
1:16:04frustrated
1:16:05oh yeah but all that aside i'm just
1:16:06curious though what one way out of this
1:16:08incredibly depressing morass is-is-is
1:16:11know but like for example I i think i
1:16:13think i understand and i think i'm with
1:16:14you about this idea that is it is a too
1:16:18fast to say like that the rhetoric is
1:16:20useful if it's in the service of the
1:16:22process but the process still has to has
1:16:25to work on some fundamental level that
1:16:26big pointy building has to have that
1:16:28happening in yeah 20 years ago i was i
1:16:31was very much like I was I was consumed
1:16:36with a fascination with um with
1:16:38american-style democracy and how
1:16:41important it was and how magical it was
1:16:44and how unlike anything that happened
1:16:47before in history it was and over the
1:16:53years my admiration for it i think got
1:16:58lost in the weeds of the way our culture
1:17:02has devolved and feeling time and time
1:17:06again that like oh well the system is
1:17:08not working very well then it's
1:17:13producing all these all these situations
1:17:16that are like that are uh they're just
1:17:20ugly
1:17:21it's it I feel like our nation is a
1:17:24bruised Apple but I feel like the only
1:17:28way out of my of my alien a
1:17:34mission is to go back up to the place
1:17:38where even in spite of the last 20 years
1:17:43american-style democracy is the most
1:17:45amazing technology
1:17:49and I and I and I i want to be a
1:17:53supporter of it and almost it requires
1:17:57that because I've never believed in
1:18:00non-partisanship I've always I've always
1:18:03thought it was just a thing that
1:18:04reporters lied about but you mean in
1:18:09terms of like fair and balanced I'm
1:18:11gonna walk this middle is non-existent
1:18:12middle yeah I don't believe I don't
1:18:14believe such a thing is true and yet I
1:18:17feel pulled mail to a place where my
1:18:21allegiance is to is to is to our
1:18:26Constitution and constitutional
1:18:28democracy and anything that serves it i
1:18:33am i am a friend of and anything that
1:18:35impedes it i am a foe of because all of
1:18:42the all of the pit fighting all the
1:18:44small beer
1:18:47uh I you know I leave to others i guess
1:18:51because at while i'm thinking of a way
1:18:54to to shore up the the edifice you know
1:19:02to shore up the hall where it's all
1:19:04taking place
1:19:05I don't know what I don't know I know
1:19:07right now I just was asked to be on the
1:19:09steering committee for the re-election
1:19:11of Seattle's mayor and I'm thinking in
1:19:17these terms like a getting getting back
1:19:21involved in democratic politics is
1:19:25thinking are you I can hear you being of
1:19:28two very different minds about I never
1:19:31thought I really want to get involved in
1:19:32this moretz democratic politics that I
1:19:35really fucking believe in but oh my god
1:19:37yeah well and I mean local politics are
1:19:39different in in the sense that i can put
1:19:41my hands on on the problems that the
1:19:44port of seattle yeah I grew up with it
1:19:46to some extent right i mean with your
1:19:48dad right on my uncle and everybody we
1:19:50already talked about local you know the
1:19:53the sewers and the and the parks but I
1:19:59don't know that this these Holocaust
1:20:01documentaries i cannot watch them and
1:20:03turn them off and then be free of the
1:20:07Holocaust you know I can't and I can't
1:20:09imagine you do either
1:20:10well I can't imagine otherwise I would
1:20:13have just watched one
1:20:14Yeah right right but you keep watching
1:20:16you keep trying can I think there's
1:20:17something I me not to be melodramatic
1:20:19it's it's amazing dramatic viewing but
1:20:22also i get i do keep looking for
1:20:24something that either makes a ton more
1:20:27sense or at unless sense because because
1:20:30when I find you know one or the other
1:20:32I don't know something feels maybe not
1:20:34explained but but it i don't know I you
1:20:40want you ever made it makes sense if
1:20:42Hitler is just a madman but when you
1:20:45realize that and one man didn't get that
1:20:47much accomplished
1:20:48yeah when you realize that the
1:20:50innovation the primary innovation at
1:20:53Auschwitz was that some lieutenants who
1:20:57realized that they were that they had
1:21:00this that they were they were fumigating
1:21:02their uniforms to kill the lice with
1:21:04this cyclone be stuff that was like a
1:21:07that was like an insecticide and he was
1:21:10like well what if we put this in the
1:21:12room with some humans like really really
1:21:15like fucking James Burke moment because
1:21:17it's around the same time the again this
1:21:19is somebody talked about on the phone
1:21:20the other day and unreleased call but
1:21:22you know it's too costly to have bullets
1:21:25you gotta dig all those pits and then
1:21:27they started writing the problems with
1:21:28like a while we've gotten really good at
1:21:29the gassing but now now we have to go
1:21:31build grills to augment the crematoria
1:21:34is now we can get rid of the bodies fast
1:21:36enough and it's just an engineering
1:21:37problem we deal with a little bit every
1:21:39week
1:21:39yeah we just hire this guy and the guy
1:21:41comes in and he's like well I'm an
1:21:42engineer but I can you know I don't have
1:21:45anything personally against like all
1:21:47these mothers the size interviews my god
1:21:51doesn't really just as you described as
1:21:53interviews with the guys who work there
1:21:56like that one guy who just just like now
1:21:58I just I just hate the Jews I don't know
1:22:00maybe not any of it
1:22:02the Jews were really a they were really
1:22:04you know making it hard on those Germans
1:22:0622 yeah a scale of is a new again let's
1:22:09go back to a million of these other
1:22:11kinds of you know us versus them things
1:22:13I you know what the juice screwed up my
1:22:16family you know side starting before
1:22:18world war one but then especially after
1:22:20you know where we will go around this in
1:22:22my words not his but you know push
1:22:24around these wheelbarrows full of
1:22:25useless money and all these guys with
1:22:28long beards are making bank off of it
1:22:31you know I I nothing just the other
1:22:34thing i mentioned to you from that I was
1:22:37sorry this is our first episode back in
1:22:39a while and I'm so and I'm just like so
1:22:42depressed
1:22:44yeah that'll help ya there might be
1:22:48people that is going to help you you
1:22:50could pick up all night watching Hitler
1:22:51people are going to people are driving
1:22:53across the world can stand there like a
1:22:55new episode of the line i'm gonna put it
1:22:57in and I'm gonna listen to lose my
1:23:00forever girl
1:23:00oh the thing that struck so what what I
1:23:03watched the other night that I was
1:23:04telling you about on the roku 700
1:23:07channels i went straight to archive.org
1:23:09and watch 1945 government films you know
1:23:12this but basically they're real love
1:23:15five basically the the the army went in
1:23:19and I guess the Russians liberated most
1:23:22of the camps but basically they went in
1:23:25when stuff was still there still people
1:23:26there some living and they went in with
1:23:29cameras and they just straight-up
1:23:32fucking shot was there and they did not
1:23:35pull any punches
1:23:37it's really interesting to watch that
1:23:38starts with affidavits like a picture of
1:23:40the affidavit on screen as maybe 45 is
1:23:43not real
1:23:43hifi and one of them is the officer who
1:23:46is like in charge of the project the
1:23:47other affidavit is a filmmaker whose you
1:23:49know ben Phillips 1920 and he's been in
1:23:51the Army instead it on he's going to
1:23:53certify that all this is correct and
1:23:55they just don't jump straight into like
1:23:58I sunken mouth open corpses being
1:24:01carried out of mass graves the
1:24:03descriptions on and on it's completely
1:24:05appalling and i SAT and watched it for a
1:24:08pretty long while and it was just it's
1:24:10engrossing but it's awful but like i
1:24:13told you the of all all that awfulness
1:24:15since we all been party to seeing some
1:24:17of this awfulness and films and stuff
1:24:18before you know sixty years after but
1:24:21but in intelligence the one that really
1:24:23struck me so you know my eyes and our is
1:24:28it some of these things patent is it
1:24:30some of these things one of the other
1:24:32big guys forget who were there and you
1:24:35know they're walking through and in so
1:24:37many of these cases what they would go
1:24:39and this is what the victor gets to do
1:24:41they go into the village nearby you know
1:24:45ash which linker or you know
1:24:47bergen-belsen or whatever and you go in
1:24:48and you are they would pull out the
1:24:51local burgers
1:24:52maybe the mayor you bring in the
1:24:54citizens ladies and fancy hats have been
1:24:56eating fine for pretty much for floor
1:24:57heaters and they walk them through the
1:25:00fucking camp they walk them past the
1:25:02open graves they walk him they make them
1:25:03go in and show them you know all these
1:25:06deliberate killing devices there's just
1:25:11one scene though that is indelibly stuck
1:25:14in my mind which is it that they
1:25:15describe this one took a little shack
1:25:18right is it is pretty small little house
1:25:20and it's just it's just a pile of bodies
1:25:23i mean it's a pile of bodies like eight
1:25:25feet high just you can't tell what Lynn
1:25:27belongs to what trunk and it's just a
1:25:29big pile of bodies unlike that course is
1:25:31a lady because she's got long hair and
1:25:33it's apparently the stench in this
1:25:36thing was so overwhelming I mean you
1:25:39can't even imagine what a what a big
1:25:41pile of bodies would be like and they
1:25:43take the people from the village and the
1:25:45guys in in like fedoras and and you know
1:25:48bespoke suits and they walk them in and
1:25:51the officers stand there and watch them
1:25:53walk in and like and you can see the
1:25:54point in going you're going to go in
1:25:55there and you're gonna look at this and
1:25:56you're going to stand in this room for a
1:25:58few minutes and then after a few minutes
1:26:00they start filing out nobody's crying
1:26:03some people are holding handkerchiefs
1:26:05over there knows because it's obviously
1:26:06intolerable and the next scene is them
1:26:09shaking their heads they're not crying
1:26:11they are as they say in Scientology they
1:26:14are pie-faced they don't have any
1:26:15expression on their face and it's just
1:26:17the equivalent of like well I i don't i
1:26:20don't know about this i don't know what
1:26:21was this is yeah this is a thing I idea
1:26:24we didn't know about this i can help you
1:26:26and that's a me maybe it's just that
1:26:29that contrast of all this horribleness
1:26:31and me sitting here at you know at one
1:26:33in the morning watching this and just
1:26:34thinking what the fuck has happened in
1:26:36the last century but just the fact it
1:26:39that's this is that's what eats at me
1:26:41and it sounds get some part of what eats
1:26:43at you is the people who could walk out
1:26:45of there and as you said them you know
1:26:47the monster inside all of this like
1:26:48those guys had kids that they love those
1:26:50guys had grandkids those people went to
1:26:52church and stuff and they could walk out
1:26:55of there and just shake their head in
1:26:56fedora like well yeah that's not really
1:26:59bad
1:27:00well this is the mean part of the
1:27:02problem of the 20th century is that we
1:27:04have demonized the German people in a
1:27:09certain way the drug the Germans live in
1:27:11all of our minds in this in this strange
1:27:13public because on the one hand right
1:27:16post-war Germany like isn't it is both
1:27:20an economic miracle and also west
1:27:22germans were our allies in our pal
1:27:24Beatles were playing their 15 years
1:27:25after that
1:27:26yeah and and so like in in some ways we
1:27:30were able to convert our thinking on the
1:27:34Germans who like an interrupted from
1:27:38being our mortal enemies to then being
1:27:42the worst monsters in history to then
1:27:46being on the Reeperbahn in 60 you know
1:27:4963 we and you know like West Germany we
1:27:53shall Michelle and the reality is that
1:27:56the Germans are not monsters so and that
1:28:01somehow the lesson of the 20th century
1:28:03that we are all monsters did not get
1:28:07learned very well they're deliberate
1:28:12monsters and we did the things that we
1:28:13had to do to stop them but they have a
1:28:15special place in history as a country
1:28:17for being the worst monsters they did
1:28:20some terrible terrible monstrous things
1:28:22but Stalin killed way way more that's
1:28:26all right but if thats kinda get the
1:28:27right that's our constellation
1:28:28constellation is we have identified who
1:28:31the problem is here and it's not us
1:28:33it will never be us right but it was not
1:28:36very long after that that we were
1:28:37dropping flaming canisters of liquid
1:28:41like jelly gasoline jellied gasoline on
1:28:45villages of a full of naked children and
1:28:50like we are we have all we are all crazy
1:28:54and yet we are convinced that were
1:29:00saying and we're so Mary about it
1:29:04we're so quick to dismiss all of these
1:29:06instances as as unique or aberrational
1:29:09instances of terror of of terrible
1:29:13people doing terrible things over here
1:29:15in this corner is so confident our
1:29:17smugness and somehow we get up I i get
1:29:20on the freeway every day and I'm just
1:29:21driving down the street it's like all
1:29:22right this freeway is full of people in
1:29:23every one of them is a crazy animal and
1:29:27I yet i am confident that we will all
1:29:29stay in our lanes that the guy in front
1:29:32of me and the guy next to me and the guy
1:29:33behind me are going to stay in their
1:29:34fucking lanes and I feel safe and you
1:29:42know and it and through that same state
1:29:45that seem like painted lines on upon the
1:29:47pavement we are capable of a mass murder
1:29:53through the same process follow the
1:29:55yellow line follow line it's going to
1:29:57take a right and that's going to go down
1:29:58some stairs
1:30:00although yellow line got we're going to
1:30:03just gonna take a shower you know and so
1:30:06so I but those yellow lines are what you
1:30:09are what are getting that they guarantee
1:30:11me guaranteed to me that the guy driving
1:30:13a an 18-wheeler next to me isn't just
1:30:17going to decide you know what I'm just
1:30:18gonna kill everybody and he doesn't
1:30:20there will be consequences
1:30:21where where we are protected by the law
1:30:23from the people who who are foolish
1:30:25enough to not honor the yellow lines
1:30:27right and so the kid the kid in
1:30:29Connecticut goes crazy and shoots a
1:30:30bunch of people in a in an elementary
1:30:32school and we all have like a like a
1:30:35two-day national reckoning about it and
1:30:37it becomes a conversation about guns and
1:30:42yet I look around and I'm just like you
1:30:45know my neighbors are just they are we
1:30:50we have not we have not really moved the
1:30:53ball on asking ourselves who we are why
1:30:57be good
1:30:59why if we are not motivated by a fear of
1:31:03God and a fear of hell
1:31:05why else be good and i do not have a i
1:31:12do not have a satisfactory answer i
1:31:16cannot keep waking up and saying because
1:31:19of some complicated Darwinian family
1:31:23group survival model that is why we are
1:31:28nice to our neighbors because it is a
1:31:29it's a mutual mutually beneficial like
1:31:32food gathering group that is not that is
1:31:36not working and and I don't feel like
1:31:40all the effort that we have put into as
1:31:43human beings trying to discern the good
1:31:47trying to develop ethics and ethical
1:31:49system that is that hinges on on
1:31:54altruism or hinges on the idea that is
1:31:59not a Hobbesian world was somehow we've
1:32:03abandoned that project or were satisfied
1:32:05what we got as far as like Jefferson and
1:32:08where were fine with it then we all can
1:32:10meet your kind of made it look a little
1:32:11bit
1:32:13too dark in that room and we decided to
1:32:15like leave it to the French like nobody
1:32:18is nobody has a has a good answer
1:32:22religion is going bonkers everywhere why
1:32:26be good
1:32:29[Music]
1:32:33so anyway yeah I got talking about cars
1:32:44already started by outer that was a good
1:32:52one