Roderick on the Line

Ep. 67: "All of the Small Beer"


00:00:00   there is [TS]

00:00:06   hey I John did you give you figure out [TS]

00:00:09   my signals [TS]

00:00:10   yes yes yes I did yes I'm so sorry [TS]

00:00:15   see I at some point i was playing the [TS]

00:00:19   guitar in my studio room and I hit a cup [TS]

00:00:24   of coffee with the headstock of my [TS]

00:00:27   guitar because i was as i was playing a [TS]

00:00:30   really aggressive part and some of the [TS]

00:00:36   coffee sloshed on my keyboard my [TS]

00:00:40   computer keyboard which it's a wireless [TS]

00:00:44   keyboard over and it caused it to [TS]

00:00:46   initially only be able to type numeric [TS]

00:00:53   like characters like a dollar sign and [TS]

00:00:57   the paren and and like all the non [TS]

00:01:01   letters [TS]

00:01:02   ya like like like yin I could express a [TS]

00:01:06   lot of yen because i have the symbol for [TS]

00:01:08   yen and then it just stopped altogether [TS]

00:01:14   huh and so I sit at the computer and you [TS]

00:01:18   are you are skype messaging me saying [TS]

00:01:20   crap you ready go ready ready go big guy [TS]

00:01:24   and I'm like yelling at the computer [TS]

00:01:28   watch [TS]

00:01:28   I'm here I'm here and then I realized I [TS]

00:01:31   could text you but then you probably had [TS]

00:01:33   your phone off [TS]

00:01:34   oh and I'm proud God where to begin so [TS]

00:01:37   sorry I'm I keep mine [TS]

00:01:40   I can't use my phone away you know it's [TS]

00:01:43   just that II yeah I don't think they do [TS]

00:01:47   that anymore [TS]

00:01:47   ok but now but just you know the whole [TS]

00:01:49   idea of distraction just hundred percent [TS]

00:01:51   to John you know it's alright then I [TS]

00:01:53   looked and the entire lockscreen was [TS]

00:01:55   filled with green with Apple messages [TS]

00:01:58   from you that were yeah yeah pretty much [TS]

00:02:01   later in our special go well I don't you [TS]

00:02:05   know I don't think this is why I feel [TS]

00:02:06   like computers are are still made of [TS]

00:02:09   bicycle parties [TS]

00:02:12   and vellum and you know and bailing wire [TS]

00:02:16   yeah but I mean you're you're out there [TS]

00:02:17   you're out there deep in dayton ohio [TS]

00:02:19   pushing the keyboard and nothing's [TS]

00:02:20   getting in the air [TS]

00:02:22   yeah the and this is the problem if a [TS]

00:02:24   guy can't get a little bit aggressive [TS]

00:02:26   with his Kramer for these floyd rose [TS]

00:02:29   equipped Kramer guitar and / a little [TS]

00:02:31   coffee on his keyboard and have its keep [TS]

00:02:34   working [TS]

00:02:34   yeah but what if i was down what if I [TS]

00:02:37   was what if I was 200 feet under the [TS]

00:02:39   ground in a missile silo and I had a [TS]

00:02:41   guide my hand on a key anyone to think [TS]

00:02:44   and you had your hand on a key [TS]

00:02:46   yes and I'm like turn your Yankee sir [TS]

00:02:49   your key turn your key sir and my [TS]

00:02:51   keyboard I spilled coffee on it i am but [TS]

00:02:54   one question where you seated when you [TS]

00:02:57   were jamming no no I was standing up but [TS]

00:02:59   i but i'm telling you this was a very [TS]

00:03:01   aggressive guitar part yeah I've seen [TS]

00:03:02   videos of you and of course the senior [TS]

00:03:04   live programs as well but when you get [TS]

00:03:07   going your glasses fall off and you [TS]

00:03:08   start rolling around people think that [TS]

00:03:10   that's all part of the state Jack it's [TS]

00:03:12   not a bit but when i get when i get [TS]

00:03:13   really cranking on a part of who knows [TS]

00:03:17   what's going to happen sometime she's [TS]

00:03:18   gonna get spilled I'll tell you that [TS]

00:03:19   this is why you don't keep coffee on [TS]

00:03:21   stage shows and it's not it's it's [TS]

00:03:23   exactly why and it's why I had to quit [TS]

00:03:24   smoking [TS]

00:03:25   that's why first of all I had to quit [TS]

00:03:26   smoking on stage did you burn yourself [TS]

00:03:28   every time that story was I was I was [TS]

00:03:31   that I was just playing rock show it was [TS]

00:03:34   at the old crocodile cafe here in [TS]

00:03:35   Seattle it was back when you can still [TS]

00:03:37   smoke in bars and in between songs i lit [TS]

00:03:41   up a cigarette on stage and my because I [TS]

00:03:44   because one time many years before I'd [TS]

00:03:47   seen the band unwound play and the lead [TS]

00:03:50   the lead guy and unwound he came out on [TS]

00:03:54   stage before they ever played a note he [TS]

00:03:55   lit a cigarette and he just stood there [TS]

00:03:58   and smoke the entire thing just staring [TS]

00:04:00   at the audience [TS]

00:04:02   and at you know and nobody think it was [TS]

00:04:05   a sold-out show nobody in the crowd knew [TS]

00:04:06   what to do and he wasn't like he wasn't [TS]

00:04:10   on drugs he was staring at us it was it [TS]

00:04:14   was the most common with the most [TS]

00:04:15   confrontational aggressive badass rock [TS]

00:04:20   thing I had ever seen [TS]

00:04:22   he just stood there he smoke the entire [TS]

00:04:23   cigarette at his leisure while we sat in [TS]

00:04:27   the crowd dumbfounded [TS]

00:04:29   so I know naturally you're gonna pick [TS]

00:04:32   that up it's got kind of a smoky [TS]

00:04:34   overture you're setting the tone for the [TS]

00:04:35   whole show [TS]

00:04:36   yeah but i but i could not I mean that [TS]

00:04:38   was that was that was a badass move but [TS]

00:04:40   it was also a very art school move in [TS]

00:04:43   and I could never I could never walk out [TS]

00:04:45   onstage and put that kind of art school [TS]

00:04:48   cape on if i'm going to come out in a [TS]

00:04:50   case but it's gonna be from walgreens [TS]

00:04:53   it's going to be a walgreens game is [TS]

00:04:54   gonna be some of art school like stare [TS]

00:04:56   the audience down cape but I did but I [TS]

00:04:58   did realize that smoking a cigarette on [TS]

00:05:00   stage was something i could get away [TS]

00:05:01   with as the star of the show and anyway [TS]

00:05:04   let a cigarette on stage and my mom was [TS]

00:05:05   in the audience and she said the power [TS]

00:05:10   of suggestion is so is so profound when [TS]

00:05:14   a person is standing on stage that you [TS]

00:05:17   let that cigarette and 50 people in the [TS]

00:05:20   audience little like fumbled for their [TS]

00:05:23   pack and got a cigarette and I thought [TS]

00:05:25   the entire crowd lit up and then the [TS]

00:05:27   room was unbearable nobody could stand [TS]

00:05:28   to be in there because everybody was [TS]

00:05:31   smoking was like okay right no more no [TS]

00:05:35   more on stage smoking right so you've [TS]

00:05:38   always on some level then aware of your [TS]

00:05:39   power but in a moment like that if it [TS]

00:05:41   becomes really clear what you're [TS]

00:05:42   wielding up there [TS]

00:05:43   mm-hmm see this is why stops that's why [TS]

00:05:48   i stopped snorting heroin when ya you'll [TS]

00:05:50   do anything for your art well yeah well [TS]

00:05:52   I like the crowd to be comfortable to as [TS]

00:05:54   I i have a couple friends who are a [TS]

00:05:56   couple and when they first saw the [TS]

00:05:59   faceoff film you know pretty good that [TS]

00:06:03   John movie they agreed by you know 15 [TS]

00:06:08   animus tune animus consent that they [TS]

00:06:11   needed to develop some kind of a code so [TS]

00:06:15   something happen [TS]

00:06:16   and one of their one of the two in a [TS]

00:06:18   couple like ended up getting face [TS]

00:06:19   switched they would have a way to let [TS]

00:06:22   the person know they have some kind of a [TS]

00:06:24   facial safe code to let the other person [TS]

00:06:26   know whether it was really them or not [TS]

00:06:28   lose their crude and they won't tell [TS]

00:06:30   which i think is some sort of course [TS]

00:06:32   they won't know I mean now if you read [TS]

00:06:33   comics you know that kind of thing with [TS]

00:06:34   a call-out mind swap it comes up all the [TS]

00:06:35   time I guess what I'm saying to you is [TS]

00:06:37   you play guitar a lot you enjoy coffee [TS]

00:06:40   and maybe we need to work something out [TS]

00:06:42   where we can have some kind of lonely [TS]

00:06:44   ping-pong some kind of smoke signals [TS]

00:06:46   maybe involving the high ass Kiki's that [TS]

00:06:48   whether thatís maybe this maybe we can [TS]

00:06:51   work out some kind of read this one [TS]

00:06:53   thing I was ringing I was bringing all [TS]

00:06:55   the bells that i had and i realized that [TS]

00:06:57   you can't hear the you cannot hear the [TS]

00:06:59   bells unless the computer is engaged now [TS]

00:07:02   I'm not yet not yet yeah yeah now you [TS]

00:07:04   can hear fine but uh but and then then [TS]

00:07:08   that was that then I'm back to the [TS]

00:07:09   Wright brothers then it's like there is [TS]

00:07:11   no way once if he's not answering his [TS]

00:07:15   cell phone texts me going and getting an [TS]

00:07:18   ipad is not gonna help [TS]

00:07:20   there's not a third way I hate that [TS]

00:07:22   feeling and secondly lock your keys in [TS]

00:07:24   your car and you just you your your your [TS]

00:07:26   first of all you just fall apart because [TS]

00:07:27   you realize what a dumbass you are but [TS]

00:07:29   then if you like me to start reeling [TS]

00:07:30   through all these different [TS]

00:07:31   possibilities like any no panic like I [TS]

00:07:33   panicked but I'm a panicker and when I [TS]

00:07:36   pan to get real stupid and become very [TS]

00:07:39   what fabulous time become like a south [TS]

00:07:41   and south american writer i start coming [TS]

00:07:43   up with all kinds of crazy shit for what [TS]

00:07:45   we do to get the situation goes just [TS]

00:07:46   gonna steal your car and you will be [TS]

00:07:47   able to stop you know what that could be [TS]

00:07:49   Plan C you know what we should do is get [TS]

00:07:52   satellite phones i was gonna say yes I [TS]

00:07:55   was gonna get with it with the comics i [TS]

00:07:56   was gonna go more for Batman red phone [TS]

00:07:58   situation and satellite phone could be [TS]

00:08:00   nice because just in case just in case [TS]

00:08:02   as or horticultural lake and lime [TS]

00:08:05   maybe we should maybe you should lay our [TS]

00:08:07   out our own cable [TS]

00:08:08   mm-hmm should take that I i think i just [TS]

00:08:16   did it's like mr. Copeland on you [TS]

00:08:19   ah yes I'll everybody at work yeah um [TS]

00:08:24   everything she does is magic [TS]

00:08:26   I you know the phones are a funny thing [TS]

00:08:28   my in-law [TS]

00:08:29   still just cannot believe that all we [TS]

00:08:31   have are our mobile phones they think [TS]

00:08:34   it's so you know they're not that much [TS]

00:08:35   older than us but it just seems crazy [TS]

00:08:38   like you know what's the first thing you [TS]

00:08:40   do you get your house and the first [TS]

00:08:42   thing you do you do turn on the electric [TS]

00:08:43   and you get a phone like how could you [TS]

00:08:45   not have a landline phone in your house [TS]

00:08:47   and the first thing you do is go [TS]

00:08:48   masturbate in every room and get this [TS]

00:08:51   looks after not did I agreed a different [TS]

00:08:53   moment but i can't throw all the cards [TS]

00:08:56   out [TS]

00:08:56   I know ok now just to review when you [TS]

00:08:58   first considering just even considering [TS]

00:09:02   buying a home you go into every corner [TS]

00:09:04   and you listen right yes they are there [TS]

00:09:06   any spooks in here you lay down on the [TS]

00:09:08   floor closure eyes and you say are there [TS]

00:09:10   any spooks in here [TS]

00:09:11   ok then we fast-forward past the closing [TS]

00:09:14   everything set [TS]

00:09:15   you've escrowed or whatever that means [TS]

00:09:18   and now it's all yours do you have a [TS]

00:09:19   sense in your mind of the kinds of the [TS]

00:09:21   steps you walk through to lay your [TS]

00:09:23   imprimatur on that floor masturbating [TS]

00:09:25   seems like a great start in uh yeah I [TS]

00:09:29   mean you gotta you gotta walk around the [TS]

00:09:31   house i think i think in my case you [TS]

00:09:33   have to walk around the house and [TS]

00:09:34   visibly scoff at every improvement that [TS]

00:09:39   a previous homeowner made so like I walk [TS]

00:09:42   around I riding the quality and the [TS]

00:09:44   taste of decided i just put like a [TS]

00:09:45   little i just put a little thumbprint of [TS]

00:09:48   scorn on every other carpenters work [TS]

00:09:51   nice recessed lighting [TS]

00:09:53   it's kind of like it's kind of like when [TS]

00:09:55   you walk through the inner city and [TS]

00:09:56   somebody's tagged and then somebody else [TS]

00:09:58   is crossed out the tag and tagged [TS]

00:09:59   they're tagged on it and then actually [TS]

00:10:01   remember I just as written is gay after [TS]

00:10:04   the his gay right right [TS]

00:10:05   I I walk around and I just look at all [TS]

00:10:07   the I look at all the hack carpentry [TS]

00:10:09   because every house that's a hundred [TS]

00:10:11   years old has a 10 20 year increments [TS]

00:10:14   like the rings of a tree has hacked [TS]

00:10:17   carpenter that cat carpentry throughout [TS]

00:10:19   the ages so you can you can look at the [TS]

00:10:22   at the nails and kind of gauge like what [TS]

00:10:25   era those nails are from right to be [TS]

00:10:27   like oh this is some seventies a [TS]

00:10:29   carpentry and it's over the top of some [TS]

00:10:32   50 sack carpentry so I walked and I [TS]

00:10:35   certainly walked around my house and I [TS]

00:10:36   was like that is some part of the whole [TS]

00:10:39   nature in now [TS]

00:10:41   there's some nice finishing I don't want [TS]

00:10:43   to you know triangulate too much here [TS]

00:10:45   but you'll remember i was literally [TS]

00:10:47   taken aback by your kitchen [TS]

00:10:48   yeah yeah there have been in there have [TS]

00:10:50   been improvements made who but but you [TS]

00:10:53   make decisions you've got a budget you [TS]

00:10:55   get time you going and you maybe fix [TS]

00:10:56   some things and another thing another [TS]

00:10:57   thing that I walked around the house and [TS]

00:10:59   I just I just I gave the scornful I to [TS]

00:11:02   all the new stuff so that the new stuff [TS]

00:11:05   this is my feeling so that the candle [TS]

00:11:07   lighting and the the marble countertops [TS]

00:11:09   don't get too ahead of themselves they [TS]

00:11:11   don't have too much pride they sit back [TS]

00:11:14   and they realize that they are new and I [TS]

00:11:16   see them right and then they become part [TS]

00:11:19   of the house and they're not they're not [TS]

00:11:20   sticking out all the time like look at [TS]

00:11:22   me i'm the i'm the pressure-sensitive [TS]

00:11:25   light switch or whatever it's like you [TS]

00:11:29   are you're nothing to me [TS]

00:11:30   yeah pressure-sensitive light switch so [TS]

00:11:32   your thing is also your my you can't [TS]

00:11:35   figure mine and here's what I want to [TS]

00:11:37   serve at my pleasure i want from you [TS]

00:11:39   that you work like a light switch [TS]

00:11:42   that's what I that theater lighting [TS]

00:11:43   thing where it comes up and down kind of [TS]

00:11:45   Jenny they got me like John I got mixed [TS]

00:11:47   feelings about that they installed this [TS]

00:11:49   stuff in my house and every time I walk [TS]

00:11:50   in I hit the light switch and then it [TS]

00:11:53   makes a decision and and I'm standing [TS]

00:11:59   there in the doorway my arms laden with [TS]

00:12:01   groceries or irm carry a girl across the [TS]

00:12:05   threshold or something [TS]

00:12:06   my hands are full and I hit that light [TS]

00:12:09   switch and then it thinks about what [TS]

00:12:11   it's going to do for a second it seems [TS]

00:12:13   like we hit the the opening of west side [TS]

00:12:15   story and maybe the lights are just [TS]

00:12:17   slowly coming up yeah yeah and then [TS]

00:12:19   sometimes they go up a little now John [TS]

00:12:22   and that's the reason they come on a [TS]

00:12:24   light switch and there's a reason the [TS]

00:12:25   late decision must be looking now it's [TS]

00:12:28   it is a reason that that is the analogy [TS]

00:12:30   for on and off it should give it a flick [TS]

00:12:31   it should be audible and then the room [TS]

00:12:34   should be flooded with light lights on [TS]

00:12:36   well we have one of those in our dining [TS]

00:12:38   area we call the nook and i think yeah [TS]

00:12:41   you you're emotionally with the old [TS]

00:12:43   place which is almost exactly like the [TS]

00:12:44   new place but in the new place [TS]

00:12:46   I'm somebody installed under which [TS]

00:12:48   college I just like theater lighting [TS]

00:12:50   right where it can gently you turn it on [TS]

00:12:51   and gently bring the light of day [TS]

00:12:53   and we bring the lights down somebody [TS]

00:12:55   installed in our place but they didn't [TS]

00:12:56   finish it so it's gonna hang out of the [TS]

00:12:58   wall a little bit you know you got a [TS]

00:12:59   match on it real hard to get it to go [TS]

00:13:01   it really it defeats the entire purpose [TS]

00:13:03   of having lights in your home this [TS]

00:13:05   morning exercise it's more like a [TS]

00:13:06   children's exercise and how to make [TS]

00:13:08   light happen then adults trying to find [TS]

00:13:10   a room with light [TS]

00:13:11   here's another thing maybe i don't i [TS]

00:13:13   don't know i'm not going to presume how [TS]

00:13:15   much you know about electricity light [TS]

00:13:18   but if you installed 10 canned light [TS]

00:13:23   fixtures in a room through one light [TS]

00:13:26   switch and you put a 60-watt bulb in [TS]

00:13:31   every one of those that's 600 watts [TS]

00:13:35   yeah it is additive and if your lights [TS]

00:13:40   which is rated for 300 Watts here's [TS]

00:13:46   what's gonna happen [TS]

00:13:47   your lights which is going to get very [TS]

00:13:48   hot as the power pours through the tiny [TS]

00:13:53   little as the electrons pour through the [TS]

00:13:56   tiny little hole elaborate chur the [TS]

00:13:59   little cable hole the hole that is a [TS]

00:14:01   cable about these things a lot of family [TS]

00:14:03   is tables are holes which electricity [TS]

00:14:06   pour through that our own better that [TS]

00:14:09   are there basically holes of plastic [TS]

00:14:11   that are full of copper electric pole [TS]

00:14:14   its up its it works it works like a [TS]

00:14:16   tunnel that it is a tube the electric [TS]

00:14:20   that I'm extrapolating fact that you put [TS]

00:14:22   that it's a tube it's a long copper tube [TS]

00:14:26   rate that is full of copper which is [TS]

00:14:28   full of electrons and it gets very hot [TS]

00:14:31   and you're seeing these these these a [TS]

00:14:33   brainiacs who put all this week we used [TS]

00:14:36   called recessed lights and candles when [TS]

00:14:37   you get the holes in the ceiling and you [TS]

00:14:39   get this kind of fruity no offense kind [TS]

00:14:41   of fruity the lights that are included [TS]

00:14:43   in the ceiling in a in a can [TS]

00:14:45   right right right i don't care for this [TS]

00:14:47   they used the wrong switches they use [TS]

00:14:50   with the you switches that were not [TS]

00:14:51   rated for this behavior and so when you [TS]

00:14:55   type if as if the lights are powered all [TS]

00:14:57   the way up then you go over and you put [TS]

00:14:58   your hand on it you will feel you will [TS]

00:15:01   feel the one of the most uncomfortable [TS]

00:15:03   feelings you can have as a homeowner [TS]

00:15:06   hot plastic light switch it's like two [TS]

00:15:09   places in maybe three places in your [TS]

00:15:11   home you should feel warmth [TS]

00:15:13   this should be water coming out of a [TS]

00:15:15   rated spigot could be out of some heat [TS]

00:15:18   radiating device but generally as you [TS]

00:15:20   know I am NOT an electrical engineer but [TS]

00:15:22   its understanding that electrical things [TS]

00:15:24   should not be hot [TS]

00:15:25   no you don't want your electrical things [TS]

00:15:27   hot and you don't want ants in your [TS]

00:15:29   upstairs bath now god they still there [TS]

00:15:31   no no come on it's been months so they [TS]

00:15:37   went away if you're living your sink is [TS]

00:15:39   that why they were so they figured out [TS]

00:15:40   another way because I was I had them i [TS]

00:15:42   had that I had their routes all mapped [TS]

00:15:45   out and I had little punchy traps all [TS]

00:15:48   around the sink so the answer would walk [TS]

00:15:50   across sorry but if it employs a [TS]

00:15:52   nonstick yeah well they would walk [TS]

00:15:54   across what seemed like a up floor [TS]

00:15:57   covered with leaves and then they would [TS]

00:15:59   fall into a pit and be impaled on a [TS]

00:16:01   shit-covered state upon the stick shift [TS]

00:16:03   covered bamboo stick and then they would [TS]

00:16:05   die of infection so they couldn't go [TS]

00:16:07   near the sink but then in there in there [TS]

00:16:11   like in their power their and power [TS]

00:16:15   which I do not understand i cannot for [TS]

00:16:17   the life of me understand it's one of [TS]

00:16:19   those pallets one of those animal powers [TS]

00:16:21   like they say a dog can smell you [TS]

00:16:23   six miles away and it's like how know a [TS]

00:16:26   dog [TS]

00:16:26   how does a dog do it right these ants [TS]

00:16:29   can find a way they send out so many [TS]

00:16:32   scouts million scouts and they found a [TS]

00:16:35   new way in which is that a little piece [TS]

00:16:38   of caulk had drooped true peacock ah and [TS]

00:16:46   yeah you know you I mean you would have [TS]

00:16:47   thought of that [TS]

00:16:48   who thinks about drew peacock and the [TS]

00:16:50   only way you could see the peacock is [TS]

00:16:51   lay down on the floor of the bathroom [TS]

00:16:53   and put your head under the toilet where [TS]

00:16:56   the P splashes and look under the trim [TS]

00:17:00   and there you will see that whoever was [TS]

00:17:02   talking it like they just kinda it's not [TS]

00:17:07   that they missed a spot [TS]

00:17:08   it's just that little rock dropped a [TS]

00:17:10   little bit and now it it is the i-5 of [TS]

00:17:14   ants [TS]

00:17:15   and they're pouring into the bathroom [TS]

00:17:17   and I'm like what do you want in here [TS]

00:17:18   there's nothing I genetic and Yuri cock [TS]

00:17:20   that [TS]

00:17:21   yeah you can but I am happy down there [TS]

00:17:22   you go down there it's not bad it's that [TS]

00:17:24   it's that you know that I i suffered [TS]

00:17:28   Merlin because i want the hands to learn [TS]

00:17:30   i want to i feel like i don't want to [TS]

00:17:34   fix the problem [TS]

00:17:36   I want to teach you teach teach the end [TS]

00:17:38   that's right i want to fix the problem [TS]

00:17:39   of the cock level I want to fix the [TS]

00:17:41   problem with the attitude level i want [TS]

00:17:45   to go back up the chain out the head and [TS]

00:17:49   rye i think i understand this is a big [TS]

00:17:52   pattern for you [TS]

00:17:53   yes be you would like to see a [TS]

00:17:56   consequent change in behavior but a you [TS]

00:17:59   want to make sure that they get their [TS]

00:18:00   mind right that's right isn't a kind of [TS]

00:18:02   more important thing 82 teaching at the [TS]

00:18:04   fish I imagine the Queen and and I [TS]

00:18:08   imagine some lieutenant colonel and [TS]

00:18:10   comes up and says were but we're missing [TS]

00:18:18   some scouts and the queen says send more [TS]

00:18:21   Scouts and the lieutenant-colonel comes [TS]

00:18:25   back and he's like sector B we are we're [TS]

00:18:30   not getting any readings from sector be [TS]

00:18:32   nobody's coming back [TS]

00:18:33   nobody's making it back from sector B [TS]

00:18:35   and she's like redouble our efforts in [TS]

00:18:37   sector B and we go back and forth until [TS]

00:18:42   the lieutenant-colonel bruised and [TS]

00:18:44   battered stands before her and says we [TS]

00:18:49   are hemorrhaging and sector B we cannot [TS]

00:18:53   keep up this pace it's an unwinnable war [TS]

00:18:55   like I want their hearts and minds i [TS]

00:18:59   want her write whatever you want to win [TS]

00:19:02   this this trench for this war of [TS]

00:19:03   attrition you want to wear them down [TS]

00:19:05   yeah it's where to where the short of [TS]

00:19:07   resources and a half blessing to you I [TS]

00:19:09   want her to feel I want her to feel me [TS]

00:19:11   there next to her in her nest whispering [TS]

00:19:14   in her ear [TS]

00:19:15   you should sit next to her I can't do it [TS]

00:19:17   I can't follow because she's a very tiny [TS]

00:19:19   tiny little creature i cannot get into [TS]

00:19:22   her nest with her but I want her to feel [TS]

00:19:24   me there [TS]

00:19:25   I want her to make decisions based on [TS]

00:19:28   the my whispering in her ear send all [TS]

00:19:31   the ins you want to just staring at her [TS]

00:19:34   smoking a cigarette but I have this [TS]

00:19:37   amazing thing which is called a [TS]

00:19:40   Dustbuster and my Dustbuster is [TS]

00:19:43   calibrated for antibodies and I will sit [TS]

00:19:48   and i will Dustbuster dance i will spend [TS]

00:19:52   i will spend 15 days not leaving my [TS]

00:19:54   bathroom there's a sink in there the [TS]

00:19:59   food i can get water who and i will just [TS]

00:20:02   dust every hand that comes out of that [TS]

00:20:04   little piece of true peacock em children [TS]

00:20:07   she feels me she knows I'm there I mm [TS]

00:20:10   I've read a third of a book about this [TS]

00:20:13   and I've heard for podcast about it and [TS]

00:20:14   I would tell you that the 15 second [TS]

00:20:16   version of it is that ants and this is [TS]

00:20:18   actually something i heard last weekend [TS]

00:20:20   and succeed because they're stupid and [TS]

00:20:22   because there's lots of them and when [TS]

00:20:24   they make a mistake things get better so [TS]

00:20:26   basically walk around as the EO wilson [TS]

00:20:27   is shown they have a little finger [TS]

00:20:29   shaped gland that makes that little ant [TS]

00:20:31   smell and and so basically what they do [TS]

00:20:33   is they run around and do these little [TS]

00:20:35   paths and when they pick up a more [TS]

00:20:37   powerful path they walk down that path [TS]

00:20:39   so it's all completely illogical [TS]

00:20:40   immersions it's all completely [TS]

00:20:42   accidental but it's also completely [TS]

00:20:44   chaotic and I'm just you know as you [TS]

00:20:46   know i'm not an entomologist but i think [TS]

00:20:49   it's hard to teach and I think they're [TS]

00:20:50   already there pretty stupid and ultra [TS]

00:20:53   summaries two roads diverged in a yellow [TS]

00:20:56   wood and sorry they could not travel [TS]

00:20:58   both but b1 and alone they stood there [TS]

00:21:04   and looked down one as far as they could [TS]

00:21:06   to wear been into the undergrowth and [TS]

00:21:09   then they take the other as just as fair [TS]

00:21:12   and having perhaps the better claim [TS]

00:21:14   because it was not grassy and did not [TS]

00:21:18   want where [TS]

00:21:20   although as for that the passing there [TS]

00:21:22   had worn them really about the same [TS]

00:21:25   Wow now what was that was a cross amber [TS]

00:21:29   go around her loved ones that I wasn't [TS]

00:21:33   gonna be white [TS]

00:21:35   no that was Robert Frost is I was gonna [TS]

00:21:37   guess for us [TS]

00:21:38   yeah cheese Louise I you know I I don't [TS]

00:21:41   wanna see I don't want to think about I [TS]

00:21:42   don't be bothered by and only bothered [TS]

00:21:44   by insects but like so many things in [TS]

00:21:46   life is just I noticed them you live in [TS]

00:21:48   San Francisco there are so many bigger [TS]

00:21:50   chance to bother you [TS]

00:21:52   yeah i can overlook a lot of them i can [TS]

00:21:54   overlook a lot of them but you know it [TS]

00:21:56   is it is frustrating and you know really [TS]

00:21:58   in Florida it was there was the roaches [TS]

00:22:00   means longer just talking about insects [TS]

00:22:01   and I think we can very easily extend [TS]

00:22:03   this to people and drippy cock not [TS]

00:22:05   withstanding the roaches you know they [TS]

00:22:07   say for everyone you see there's like a [TS]

00:22:08   seven thousand others or whatever [TS]

00:22:09   no not an expert but no no you see 1 [TS]

00:22:12   i'll never forget my first Roach it is [TS]

00:22:14   it is so complacent on my mind had a [TS]

00:22:17   little touch you know I wish you wish [TS]

00:22:21   rails 14 I could use the love but I was [TS]

00:22:24   laying in bed watching fridays as you do [TS]

00:22:26   and it might the room was dark and watch [TS]

00:22:29   my little portable black-and-white TV [TS]

00:22:30   and I i see a little movement and there [TS]

00:22:34   shouldn't be a little movement your room [TS]

00:22:36   at twelve o'clock on a friday and it was [TS]

00:22:39   a roach in my room and you know even in [TS]

00:22:41   Florida we're not talking about those [TS]

00:22:43   ones that are you know the size of a [TS]

00:22:45   pencil eraser know it's like a small cat [TS]

00:22:48   oh it's curry and and it's a little [TS]

00:22:51   insects that make noise like a pack of [TS]

00:22:53   gum is literally the size of a pack of [TS]

00:22:56   gum [TS]

00:22:57   yes they're like liked and gum and they [TS]

00:22:59   make an audible noise when they move and [TS]

00:23:02   I ran out of my room of all the [TS]

00:23:05   creatures I've had my room that was once [TS]

00:23:06   had a corn snake in my room one time I [TS]

00:23:08   dealt with that the but the the roaches [TS]

00:23:11   are the worst because you don't know [TS]

00:23:12   where they're coming from corn snake you [TS]

00:23:13   find a ticket like a gentleman but that [TS]

00:23:15   the roaches and you know all like so [TS]

00:23:17   many of our troublesome animals if their [TS]

00:23:19   head can fit throughout the rest of them [TS]

00:23:21   can i was sleeping in a hotel in this [TS]

00:23:24   middle of the czech republic one night a [TS]

00:23:26   motel [TS]

00:23:27   let's just let's call a spade a spade it [TS]

00:23:28   was a motel [TS]

00:23:30   and I turned off the lights and I heard [TS]

00:23:34   that sound and I was like I'm too tired [TS]

00:23:38   and I no roaches can't hurt me I'm too [TS]

00:23:41   tired to deal with this and I just screw [TS]

00:23:44   it and then one fell from the ceiling on [TS]

00:23:47   me in the dark while I was sleeping and [TS]

00:23:52   I i left six feet in the air and turn [TS]

00:23:55   the light on as i was flying and the [TS]

00:23:58   room was covered with these things that [TS]

00:24:00   were like they were the size of packs of [TS]

00:24:03   gum and black and the and so I was the [TS]

00:24:07   whole rest of the night I was killing [TS]

00:24:10   roaches United do anything I didn't stop [TS]

00:24:14   the plague [TS]

00:24:16   now i just made a mess i have one of my [TS]

00:24:19   ear once [TS]

00:24:20   oh yeah i mean not all the way in but he [TS]

00:24:22   was curious he was curious since [TS]

00:24:24   conversation is really going sideways [TS]

00:24:27   yeah once i meant haha good in this here [TS]

00:24:35   up [TS]

00:24:38   oh that slow at satori make it suntory [TS]

00:24:54   times now we're fine Stargate actually [TS]

00:24:57   waiting to play Stargate the the [TS]

00:24:59   much-improved you know son of defender [TS]

00:25:03   as you know and we're playing Stargate [TS]

00:25:05   and this guy was he's really good at [TS]

00:25:07   Stargate he's real gross and real stinky [TS]

00:25:09   and I wouldn't tell you his name but his [TS]

00:25:11   name was pretty much stinky that was [TS]

00:25:14   kind of his last stinky right yeah he's [TS]

00:25:17   a worker snotboogie via yeah yeah he was [TS]

00:25:21   he was he was going along and killing [TS]

00:25:23   mutants and jump into the Stargate and [TS]

00:25:25   he started shaking his is right foot and [TS]

00:25:27   a roach crawled out of issue [TS]

00:25:29   Oh welcome blocking the Florida stinky [TS]

00:25:32   you're saying the roads got the road [TS]

00:25:35   came there was stinky yeah [TS]

00:25:37   and I i don't think it was doing second [TS]

00:25:39   player he was refused he was riding was [TS]

00:25:41   thinking it's ready little Wayne up my [TS]

00:25:48   wildest one tax story i was walking down [TS]

00:25:52   the street they witness this John it [TS]

00:25:54   really really miss it going down the [TS]

00:25:57   street and washington DC in the middle [TS]

00:25:59   of the night one time and you know it on [TS]

00:26:01   the East Coast a town houses brownstones [TS]

00:26:05   have Stoops and if steps steps that come [TS]

00:26:08   down and those steps have beautiful sort [TS]

00:26:11   of cast-iron lintels at the bottom of [TS]

00:26:16   the stairs right they have two big posts [TS]

00:26:19   made of iron with but giant iron balls [TS]

00:26:23   on the top at the bottom of the stairs [TS]

00:26:25   be picturing this [TS]

00:26:26   yeah I am I was walking down the [TS]

00:26:28   sidewalk in a fairly nice neighborhood [TS]

00:26:30   and one of these brownstones had the top [TS]

00:26:35   of their of one of those posts had been [TS]

00:26:40   sheared off somehow [TS]

00:26:42   and it was hollow as they are and out of [TS]

00:26:46   it was pouring like water flowing out of [TS]

00:26:51   the top of this thing and down the sides [TS]

00:26:54   and into the street roaches [TS]

00:26:56   oh come on waves and waves just a [TS]

00:27:00   constantly like thousands of roaches [TS]

00:27:04   pouring out of this post down the sides [TS]

00:27:08   all four sides and into the sidewalk [TS]

00:27:10   industry and people were standing there [TS]

00:27:12   at a healthy distance from this thing [TS]

00:27:15   and marveling at it as if a fire hydrant [TS]

00:27:18   was open and water was spilling into the [TS]

00:27:21   street but it was it was a billion [TS]

00:27:23   roaches [TS]

00:27:24   what do you think brought them out [TS]

00:27:25   coming from we're coming from their [TS]

00:27:28   undersea layer and what was bringing [TS]

00:27:31   them out was black magic [TS]

00:27:32   mm it was the ugliest most awful thing I [TS]

00:27:36   had ever seen it it it it it inspired me [TS]

00:27:39   to think of new tortures that were that [TS]

00:27:44   were as bad as being buried alive [TS]

00:27:47   like for instance being stuffed down [TS]

00:27:49   that hole [TS]

00:27:50   you know or being buried alive in a [TS]

00:27:52   place where there were that many roaches [TS]

00:27:54   I mean they're you know as a as a man I [TS]

00:27:57   am I'm contractually obligated at least [TS]

00:28:00   once a month to think of some terrible [TS]

00:28:02   terrible scenario where I die or him [TS]

00:28:06   trapped or buried alive with a billion [TS]

00:28:11   roaches [TS]

00:28:11   yeah yeah I think that's pretty normal [TS]

00:28:13   hopeless situation that you that you [TS]

00:28:15   have been put into by an enemy for [TS]

00:28:18   example [TS]

00:28:18   yeah and this did not I did not have an [TS]

00:28:20   awareness that such a terrible thing [TS]

00:28:22   could exist until I saw this and then [TS]

00:28:24   then I realized that even my worst [TS]

00:28:26   fantasy was not it not as bad as the [TS]

00:28:29   world could could drum up [TS]

00:28:31   yeah I don't like I don't like swarming [TS]

00:28:34   and you hit the funny part of it is if I [TS]

00:28:35   if I were to place myself on a continuum [TS]

00:28:38   I think I'm you know compared to a lot [TS]

00:28:41   of people again having lived in Florida [TS]

00:28:42   you know have having seen a roach come [TS]

00:28:44   out of a Stargate player shoe I feel [TS]

00:28:47   like on the American continuum excluding [TS]

00:28:50   maybe Mississippi god bless them i think [TS]

00:28:52   i'm on the amana i'm on the pretty left [TS]

00:28:55   side of the curve in the shit I've been [TS]

00:28:58   in the shit I got the thousand-yard [TS]

00:28:59   stare [TS]

00:29:00   I think there are people who are way way [TS]

00:29:02   more freaked out by then the then I am [TS]

00:29:05   about roaches but again like the [TS]

00:29:07   Stargate player there are people who are [TS]

00:29:08   not quite freaked out enough but I guess [TS]

00:29:11   that's just that's a condition of life [TS]

00:29:12   now you know like with rats i don't like [TS]

00:29:15   rats don't like rats what about goth [TS]

00:29:18   girl with white Pat Rapp what about pet [TS]

00:29:23   rat on a on a little like with a cat [TS]

00:29:25   collar on there like anchovies you know [TS]

00:29:27   where if I know it's coming so to speak [TS]

00:29:29   like I'm okay we just had to get rid of [TS]

00:29:31   that the third rat at my kids school the [TS]

00:29:35   third rad shredders turf and movie but [TS]

00:29:38   wasn't that Orson don't like scary novel [TS]

00:29:40   that they get that Orson Welles movie [TS]

00:29:42   know which if you seen this television [TS]

00:29:46   showed the Americans i have I i actually [TS]

00:29:50   purchase it on my way to my TV we don't [TS]

00:29:53   normally sit and talk about pop media i [TS]

00:29:55   was curious what you thought about it [TS]

00:29:57   actually [TS]

00:29:58   well you know as a as a internationally [TS]

00:30:01   famous fact checker [TS]

00:30:03   my initial response to it was that I was [TS]

00:30:06   pointing out all the light fixtures that [TS]

00:30:08   were wrong and all the people that were [TS]

00:30:09   wearing not era-appropriate glasses [TS]

00:30:12   frame i wish i wasn't that guy that [TS]

00:30:14   everybody watch me watch indiana jones [TS]

00:30:16   last night and the part with the guys [TS]

00:30:18   from the Army come and talk to him at [TS]

00:30:19   the at the school [TS]

00:30:21   all you do is stare at this one guy suit [TS]

00:30:22   from fucking 1980 he was obviously [TS]

00:30:25   wearing in 1980 suit [TS]

00:30:26   yeah yeah and this I've got the the [TS]

00:30:29   thing about this show is in 19min [TS]

00:30:31   1984-85 if you want anyone right ok very [TS]

00:30:35   clearly like that transition that's [TS]

00:30:37   right Reagan Reagan has like Jason Brown [TS]

00:30:39   in tell people because i don't want no [TS]

00:30:42   spoilers but I i think it's conceptually [TS]

00:30:45   setting aside the girl from Felicity who [TS]

00:30:47   I would eat off a cracker [TS]

00:30:49   I i think it's consistently or she's so [TS]

00:30:51   my type [TS]

00:30:52   can we talk about her she's got no hips [TS]

00:30:54   yes I didn't know me we're talking about [TS]

00:30:56   before because you mentioned and I was [TS]

00:30:57   like oh sure but i had no idea that [TS]

00:30:59   she's bitchy saw her and said that's [TS]

00:31:01   that's why did i see i see here and I'm [TS]

00:31:03   like up there it is that's one of those [TS]

00:31:04   Merlin girl she's got this big eyes [TS]

00:31:06   yeah but so the premise of the show is [TS]

00:31:09   that the that there are sleeper agents [TS]

00:31:11   from the Soviet Union living in America [TS]

00:31:13   as Americans basically for all practical [TS]

00:31:16   purposes in the city and they were like [TS]

00:31:18   raised as Americans yeah they're like [TS]

00:31:20   KGB agents not allowed not allowed to [TS]

00:31:22   speak Russian but they're dead but [TS]

00:31:25   they're devoted to the cause and I think [TS]

00:31:27   one of the interesting things about the [TS]

00:31:28   show is that it reminds me of a time [TS]

00:31:31   when soviet-style communism still seemed [TS]

00:31:36   it is plausible to me in 1981 that [TS]

00:31:40   people in America were still harboring [TS]

00:31:44   sympathy with the Soviet Union I [TS]

00:31:46   remember I remember a time when you know [TS]

00:31:49   when it was plausible that there were [TS]

00:31:51   people around who were still fellow [TS]

00:31:53   travelers okay yeah absolutely [TS]

00:31:56   yeah but so so that you know there are [TS]

00:31:58   some impossibilities about the show but [TS]

00:32:00   you know how much I love a spy show [TS]

00:32:02   oh it's in it's very it's got all those [TS]

00:32:05   else is you absolutely do i do as well [TS]

00:32:07   don't come back to this involving Jason [TS]

00:32:09   Bourne in a minute but yes and and it's [TS]

00:32:12   got all the elements it should be a [TS]

00:32:15   little better than it is but it's really [TS]

00:32:16   good because it's got layers i think [TS]

00:32:18   it's written well I think it's acted [TS]

00:32:20   well they're just a few moments where [TS]

00:32:21   I'm like those glasses are not from [TS]

00:32:24   sometimes reason you're not just your [TS]

00:32:26   not just kidding thats that's a big [TS]

00:32:28   hang-up for you those classes are wrong [TS]

00:32:30   yeah and everything is that what i can [TS]

00:32:32   tell is there are four people working [TS]

00:32:34   the set design of the show and 303 mr [TS]

00:32:39   good are dynamite you know there's like [TS]

00:32:42   I'm looking around and I'm like holy [TS]

00:32:44   shit they got the stock us as pull-up [TS]

00:32:47   socks with the guys socks they got that [TS]

00:32:49   whole thing remember in 1981 when [TS]

00:32:51   everybody had a weird brown and and mob [TS]

00:32:54   quilt hanging on the wall behind the [TS]

00:32:56   brass bell [TS]

00:32:57   yeah and like country kitchen with 2 k's [TS]

00:32:59   yeah or like a macrame plant holder that [TS]

00:33:03   had some ferns in it and an owl and you [TS]

00:33:07   know like 1981 very distinctive look and [TS]

00:33:09   they get the cars right i'm always [TS]

00:33:12   looking in the background shows like [TS]

00:33:13   that to see the one car that's wrong and [TS]

00:33:16   they all the cars are right i think [TS]

00:33:19   that's a lot of work [TS]

00:33:20   the clothes are right that is a lot of [TS]

00:33:22   work they're just there a couple of [TS]

00:33:23   things the lead actress has the wrong [TS]

00:33:24   hair is no way somebody in 1981 had hair [TS]

00:33:27   that that look that cool [TS]

00:33:29   she's butBut saying that the person [TS]

00:33:33   that's dressing her is putting her in a [TS]

00:33:36   tease jeans but making them look [TS]

00:33:38   contemporary like somebody's tailoring [TS]

00:33:41   the clothes so that little bit so that [TS]

00:33:43   they so that they are technically right [TS]

00:33:47   right good night but that's a balance [TS]

00:33:49   the striker you don't want to be like [TS]

00:33:51   distracting [TS]

00:33:52   yeah right you don't be maybe a little [TS]

00:33:54   too Gloria Vanderbilt exactly remember [TS]

00:33:56   remember how bad hi [TS]

00:33:58   waisted jeans looked on women i do and [TS]

00:34:00   we suffered through them for a direct I [TS]

00:34:02   was very focused on just about 2-3 [TS]

00:34:04   inches down from that but I do remember [TS]

00:34:06   and i think they really nailed that in [TS]

00:34:09   this high-waisted jeans with a little [TS]

00:34:11   tiny like alligator skin belt [TS]

00:34:13   oh man I I was like a double dollar go [TS]

00:34:16   around you get like a double belt [TS]

00:34:18   remember that little belt-tightening [TS]

00:34:19   with you get a lot of that stuff right [TS]

00:34:21   and then every once in a while somebody [TS]

00:34:23   comes on screen and it's like was the [TS]

00:34:26   good person off today and somebody just [TS]

00:34:28   loaned you their glasses like this and [TS]

00:34:31   maybe I'm maybe I'm a weirdo maybe [TS]

00:34:33   glasses don't matter to other people but [TS]

00:34:35   come on I come with you I i watch for [TS]

00:34:38   those things to you know and I always [TS]

00:34:39   notice is e and you know there are [TS]

00:34:41   people who have gone crazy with this and [TS]

00:34:44   I guess that show with the winter in the [TS]

00:34:47   elves or whatever there's like shit [TS]

00:34:49   where you can go through and look at the [TS]

00:34:50   vernacular elf winter elf winter that [TS]

00:34:53   show on HBO with the the Peter Dingle [TS]

00:34:55   guy and I know you know I met him it no [TS]

00:34:58   really [TS]

00:34:59   in college he seemed super smart so he [TS]

00:35:02   comes on he comes on the show that [TS]

00:35:03   hodgman and cabin and we're doing he's [TS]

00:35:05   one of our guests will come on [TS]

00:35:07   yeah and he said they're very very smart [TS]

00:35:10   guy he's a he is he's exceptionally [TS]

00:35:12   smart and also just saying that because [TS]

00:35:13   he's small understand he's great he's [TS]

00:35:16   very clean [TS]

00:35:16   he's he's a clean and yes he's keeps [TS]

00:35:19   himself very clean but he's a he's very [TS]

00:35:21   articulate his parents he's also like [TS]

00:35:26   he's really a mensch and and you know I [TS]

00:35:30   think he's like he's got a little bit of [TS]

00:35:31   a chip on his shoulder because everybody [TS]

00:35:33   wants to compliment him on being [TS]

00:35:34   articulated clean because he is [TS]

00:35:36   literally small he's a little zippy done [TS]

00:35:38   real well Peter but you know like but [TS]

00:35:41   but yeah right I I it i challenge anyone [TS]

00:35:44   to try and pat him on the head i think [TS]

00:35:45   he would break your hand into seven [TS]

00:35:47   places but but no he's won he's a [TS]

00:35:49   wonderful guy had a blast with him [TS]

00:35:51   easily hear more about that look like [TS]

00:35:53   dick had some kind of you know was that [TS]

00:35:56   was a rapier or a cutlass yet something [TS]

00:35:59   that Cutlass he had some kind of value [TS]

00:36:00   so you you was it mr. Hodgman somebody [TS]

00:36:02   posted a photo of you guys hanging out [TS]

00:36:04   and take haven't had some kind of sword [TS]

00:36:06   yeah well one of our guests was a [TS]

00:36:09   like a Quint athlete from the canadian [TS]

00:36:13   olympic that lady right there [TS]

00:36:15   yeah and she brought her fencing Sabres [TS]

00:36:18   something and she and I actually fenced [TS]

00:36:21   on the balcony of the chateau marmont [TS]

00:36:24   and you know she she again like all [TS]

00:36:30   great athletes she had economy of motion [TS]

00:36:33   so I'm slashing away at the air and I'm [TS]

00:36:37   saying come at me you know to the death [TS]

00:36:40   and she's just like she was just carving [TS]

00:36:42   our initials in my shirt and then then [TS]

00:36:46   you know she made the fatal error of [TS]

00:36:47   thinking that the duel was over there [TS]

00:36:50   and your future looked away which point [TS]

00:36:53   i dealt the fatal blow like like an hour [TS]

00:36:55   later and and I got booed I got booed by [TS]

00:36:58   everybody [TS]

00:36:59   uh-huh because supposedly that she [TS]

00:37:02   wasn't looking [TS]

00:37:03   yeah this isn't the Olympics isn't does [TS]

00:37:05   this cockamamie Olympic rules [TS]

00:37:06   yeah that's right this isn't this is the [TS]

00:37:08   real world dude but then-then cabin got [TS]

00:37:10   ahold of my saber at some point and then [TS]

00:37:12   he's you know I don't know you can't but [TS]

00:37:14   i would not give that man a sword [TS]

00:37:15   no I learned I learned the hard way yeah [TS]

00:37:18   you know got one time he and Groucho [TS]

00:37:19   we're talking about sources he's got a [TS]

00:37:23   gradual story for every single I mean he [TS]

00:37:25   has an anecdote about Groucho Marx that [TS]

00:37:27   fits any case he is he is the chuck [TS]

00:37:29   klosterman and the thurston moore of [TS]

00:37:31   Groucho Marx anecdotes you know actually [TS]

00:37:34   you cannot leave this history turns out [TS]

00:37:36   legally you cannot have a rock-and-roll [TS]

00:37:37   documentary and this is chuck klosterman [TS]

00:37:39   and thurston moore and that guy who [TS]

00:37:41   looks like Joey Ramone from my Rolling [TS]

00:37:43   Stone david fricke oh yeah that guy [TS]

00:37:45   can't stand to hear him talk like to [TS]

00:37:48   hire check classroom never stop punching [TS]

00:37:49   him [TS]

00:37:50   well you know I his teeth is Johnny [TS]

00:37:52   teeth [TS]

00:37:53   the corollary is the is the punk rock [TS]

00:37:55   documentary that has to have both flee [TS]

00:37:56   and dave grohl doll yes [TS]

00:37:59   yes yes he has something to say about [TS]

00:38:01   every single punk rock band also also [TS]

00:38:04   large Rick makes a lot of appearances in [TS]

00:38:06   Iraqi memories my god i heard the [TS]

00:38:08   greatest story please [TS]

00:38:10   so a friend of mine who is in a rock [TS]

00:38:13   band with the foot the famous eighties [TS]

00:38:16   rocker who's gonna remain nameless just [TS]

00:38:20   so that just so that are our fact [TS]

00:38:22   checker listeners are going to have to [TS]

00:38:25   do they're gonna have to do at least the [TS]

00:38:26   legwork of remembering the 20 times [TS]

00:38:29   we've talked about the person in the [TS]

00:38:30   past you tell me later [TS]

00:38:31   oh yeah some friend of mine potentially [TS]

00:38:34   financial investment k with the famous [TS]

00:38:36   put a very very very famous 80s rocker [TS]

00:38:39   and they are now has all of his organs [TS]

00:38:41   intact [TS]

00:38:42   he's still alive and we are ok I'm sorry [TS]

00:38:45   they are on tour they were on tour in [TS]

00:38:47   Asia recently on one of these big [TS]

00:38:51   package tours where its lair and it's a [TS]

00:38:56   you know it's what I dimebag darrell is [TS]

00:38:59   dead but the breast of the guys from [TS]

00:39:01   from the done bagged derelict explosion [TS]

00:39:05   and all those all those bands anthrax [TS]

00:39:08   they're all there and the headliner is [TS]

00:39:10   Metallica and so this buddy of mine and [TS]

00:39:15   some other dudes from like up-and-coming [TS]

00:39:18   metal bands that i could not name are [TS]

00:39:22   standing around backstage at the BBQ pit [TS]

00:39:24   at one of these big massive metal shows [TS]

00:39:28   in Japan and James Hadfield walks up [TS]

00:39:32   this way it's like what's up guys oh my [TS]

00:39:36   god that's so cool [TS]

00:39:37   so these you know these three guys are [TS]

00:39:38   like oh shit head [TS]

00:39:41   hey James Hadfield what's up bro and [TS]

00:39:44   they're all standing around they all [TS]

00:39:45   have like leather wrist bands that are [TS]

00:39:47   six inches wide and and they all have [TS]

00:39:50   long goatees and understand the colo [TS]

00:39:54   would some how it's going you know rock [TS]

00:39:57   and roll and James Hetfield's talking to [TS]

00:40:00   him and and somebody you know kind of [TS]

00:40:03   takes the initiative one of these guys [TS]

00:40:06   kinda gets a little bold [TS]

00:40:08   there's always one there's always one is [TS]

00:40:10   like you know you know what i like about [TS]

00:40:13   you guys [TS]

00:40:14   james hetfield is like you you made it [TS]

00:40:18   through the nineties without like you [TS]

00:40:22   know doing anything embarrassing [TS]

00:40:24   musically and change that feels like [TS]

00:40:29   thanks man you know appreciate it hey [TS]

00:40:33   guys can I keeps pressing his luck its [TS]

00:40:34   like I mean you know what I'm gonna stop [TS]

00:40:37   right there that lets his gracious [TS]

00:40:39   you're gonna get like a lot of metal [TS]

00:40:41   dudes you know a lot of guys let me [TS]

00:40:43   apply that state like a lot of guys your [TS]

00:40:45   age you know they play they tried to [TS]

00:40:46   like you know make it like techno record [TS]

00:40:49   or whatever and James Hetfield's looks [TS]

00:40:51   like the looks of these three guys these [TS]

00:40:54   three just like you know young dudes and [TS]

00:40:57   it goes alright can you imagine us to [TS]

00:41:00   imagine as playing like to a click track [TS]

00:41:04   with Lars and then it goes [TS]

00:41:07   duh and does this air drumming like like [TS]

00:41:10   duh dum don't go ahead as hell did this [TS]

00:41:14   hell did this and this friend of mine I [TS]

00:41:17   mean they're all their chins just hit [TS]

00:41:19   the floor because large is standing 15 [TS]

00:41:21   feet well my god and Hadfield is like [TS]

00:41:23   can you imagine us trying to play to a [TS]

00:41:25   click track with this ding-dong [TS]

00:41:27   duh I'm ward oil and kidding no and this [TS]

00:41:31   buddy of mine was like it was basically [TS]

00:41:33   the most badass thing I've ever seen [TS]

00:41:35   James Hetfield openly mocking Lars in [TS]

00:41:39   front of everybody and and I is [TS]

00:41:43   inconceivable inconceivable metal moment [TS]

00:41:47   and here and here it happened to it [TS]

00:41:50   happened at this i am one kiss away from [TS]

00:41:52   this story a man that I know very well [TS]

00:41:55   was standing in that group and says that [TS]

00:41:58   this happened [TS]

00:41:59   am i esteem for James Hadfield goes [TS]

00:42:02   through the roof [TS]

00:42:03   you know he's talked about half a dozen [TS]

00:42:05   times he's the good one at field is the [TS]

00:42:07   good one there one after that some kind [TS]

00:42:09   of monster thing I could barely I can [TS]

00:42:11   barely stand to see any of their faces [TS]

00:42:13   that was that was that was a slog [TS]

00:42:15   yeah so apparently it's not a mystery [TS]

00:42:21   it's not a mystery james hetfield that [TS]

00:42:23   larger orange is the worst drummer and [TS]

00:42:25   the first of all you don't think he was [TS]

00:42:28   just fun and like for the kids [TS]

00:42:30   mm I don't know this is here starting [TS]

00:42:34   pretty hard you know [TS]

00:42:36   ok we're definitely coming to that in 30 [TS]

00:42:38   seconds [TS]

00:42:39   here's the thing as something like that [TS]

00:42:41   james hetfield has been through a lot of [TS]

00:42:43   meetings I don't think that's the kind [TS]

00:42:45   of thing you say once maybe not i'm no [TS]

00:42:48   no here's what I'm saying I'm saying [TS]

00:42:51   that like talking to this dumbass is [TS]

00:42:52   probably that is probably i'm just [TS]

00:42:54   guessing that was not the first time [TS]

00:42:55   that that revelation occurred to him in [TS]

00:42:57   that particularly clownish format you [TS]

00:42:59   think he's playing to the cheap seats i [TS]

00:43:01   do not i think i do not i think i think [TS]

00:43:03   he doesn't like the drumming of his [TS]

00:43:07   drummer and they're in a business [TS]

00:43:08   relationship that he's obligated to be [TS]

00:43:11   in because it's probably pretty [TS]

00:43:12   lucrative it's like the way gene Simmons [TS]

00:43:14   talks about Paul Stanley what you say [TS]

00:43:17   about pasta alle gene simmons is [TS]

00:43:19   incredibly dismissive of Paul Stanley [TS]

00:43:21   like to display such a small little man [TS]

00:43:23   is a terrible person is that he subject [TS]

00:43:25   is the Donald Trump of metal [TS]

00:43:27   hey and you know and and you know I wish [TS]

00:43:33   and get into that ok [TS]

00:43:34   sporting talk about music probably but [TS]

00:43:36   but but so so Lars Ulrich the idea being [TS]

00:43:39   that you know he's got he's got moves [TS]

00:43:41   and stuff but you can really keep the [TS]

00:43:43   beat [TS]

00:43:44   oh he's the worst is that right you know [TS]

00:43:46   I'm a time when really she's probably I [TS]

00:43:48   don't know the guy he probably find have [TS]

00:43:50   a beer with but i don't think so i think [TS]

00:43:51   it would be terrible to have a beer with [TS]

00:43:53   yeah he is on that he is definitely in [TS]

00:43:57   the supergroup of worst musicians ever [TS]

00:43:59   really Lars Lars Ulrich on the drums [TS]

00:44:03   anthony kiedis and vocals all do you let [TS]

00:44:06   you literally not get me started your [TS]

00:44:08   sin case the finest and what you're [TS]

00:44:09   saying that John erotic you're not just [TS]

00:44:11   saying like it's not about the shaggs [TS]

00:44:13   we're talking about people who like had [TS]

00:44:15   records may have advanced a gold record [TS]

00:44:17   and have a reprehensible level of non [TS]

00:44:21   skill at what are supposedly don't more [TS]

00:44:23   on guitar haha [TS]

00:44:25   this is a black eye in that one video is [TS]

00:44:29   there is there is the doors guy right [TS]

00:44:31   yeah yeah i think the video for light my [TS]

00:44:33   fire on at solving he's got a big shiner [TS]

00:44:35   yeah I walked into a door nah but I was [TS]

00:44:39   good [TS]

00:44:40   ok so who we ll be there there are a [TS]

00:44:43   couple of guys in the doors that make it [TS]

00:44:44   into this band but but but Densmore for [TS]

00:44:47   his parts i mean John I don't like the [TS]

00:44:49   doors no listening to listening to his [TS]

00:44:51   guitar part so loud I think it's just [TS]

00:44:53   like listening to somebody throw a [TS]

00:44:54   guitar and a flight of stairs could even [TS]

00:44:58   pick up a coffee [TS]

00:45:00   I've never either i like a couple doors [TS]

00:45:02   songs but I you know I've really had I [TS]

00:45:04   State John and put time into and I still [TS]

00:45:07   don't get the doors you know I feel like [TS]

00:45:10   I should feel stupid like you know it's [TS]

00:45:11   like my friends who can't get into the [TS]

00:45:13   Smiths are selecting new york and i like [TS]

00:45:16   I understand you know they just can't [TS]

00:45:17   get into it but I have a lot of really [TS]

00:45:19   smart friends for him the doors is [TS]

00:45:22   probably one of their top five favorite [TS]

00:45:23   bands of all time I think it might be [TS]

00:45:25   some kind of mass hysteria I just don't [TS]

00:45:26   understand it [TS]

00:45:27   I'm starting my I'm starting to feel [TS]

00:45:30   myself starting to change my 1 i'm [TS]

00:45:33   starting to not understand culture [TS]

00:45:37   anymore culture Big C ok really that [TS]

00:45:43   you're reaching for your gun [TS]

00:45:45   I just don't know is that were [TS]

00:45:47   documented the other night with that [TS]

00:45:48   line in it you don't get it done [TS]

00:45:50   I've been watching live and what I'm [TS]

00:45:51   sorry I'm feeling but I've been watching [TS]

00:45:53   something about the Holocaust every [TS]

00:45:54   night and last night I took a little [TS]

00:45:57   decide route and watch Frank Capra's why [TS]

00:45:59   we fight off which is pretty pretty [TS]

00:46:01   great propaganda there's a great line [TS]

00:46:03   whenever I hear the word culture I reach [TS]

00:46:04   for my gun [TS]

00:46:05   yeah alright who said that it was a [TS]

00:46:08   pretty early national socialist quote [TS]

00:46:10   you know maybe know but let's get back [TS]

00:46:13   to the important John your American know [TS]

00:46:15   I've been watching a lot of Holocaust [TS]

00:46:16   stuff lately too and it isn't so much [TS]

00:46:17   about the family affect me tell you [TS]

00:46:19   about the film's h2 film stay the actual [TS]

00:46:22   literal films they shot at the camps in [TS]

00:46:24   1945 watch that for an hour and then you [TS]

00:46:28   know what I did you know fuck you I i [TS]

00:46:30   sat down and watched that entire [TS]

00:46:32   six-part outwits thing on x201 I told [TS]

00:46:35   you about of the bbc1 yeah after last [TS]

00:46:37   phone call you talk about this is a [TS]

00:46:38   literally [TS]

00:46:39   I seen her pic from beginning to end [TS]

00:46:41   doesn't that make you happy [TS]

00:46:43   oh my god it was so well done it yeah it [TS]

00:46:44   was a great party was a great show and [TS]

00:46:46   also the message of it is like no one [TS]

00:46:50   invented the Holocaust it was the [TS]

00:46:51   product of it was the product of a [TS]

00:46:54   hundred people all trying to do their [TS]

00:46:56   jobs a little bit better [TS]

00:46:58   yes out yes a hundred percent and then [TS]

00:47:01   but I guess what [TS]

00:47:03   well two things occurred to me and I'm [TS]

00:47:04   really doing here I apologize did two [TS]

00:47:06   things that occurred to me please [TS]

00:47:08   continue two things I'm first of all I [TS]

00:47:10   guess I know I mean I knew that the camp [TS]

00:47:12   started as concentration camps in the [TS]

00:47:15   true sense of the word not as death [TS]

00:47:16   camps right or I guess they were kind of [TS]

00:47:19   you know slave labor camps but they're [TS]

00:47:20   mostly places to put you know religious [TS]

00:47:23   initially there were places to put [TS]

00:47:26   Russian but captured sounds like they [TS]

00:47:29   got it worse than just about anybody [TS]

00:47:31   yeah but nobody's counting the Russian [TS]

00:47:33   dead in world war two because it's like [TS]

00:47:36   20 million people you can't even count [TS]

00:47:38   that high but I was as two things struck [TS]

00:47:41   me is an amount of scholar here but it [TS]

00:47:43   struck me first of all in my head I go [TS]

00:47:45   okay [TS]

00:47:46   Nazi death camps 1942 1945 like april of [TS]

00:47:51   nineteen forty-five i'm imagining that [TS]

00:47:53   there are as gas and crematoria for like [TS]

00:47:55   six solid years and that was simply not [TS]

00:47:57   the case it wasn't really kicking in [TS]

00:47:59   until like 42 43 and then they were [TS]

00:48:01   already kind of shutting it down to 44 [TS]

00:48:03   did all that in like three years [TS]

00:48:06   yeah yeah they were killing 15,000 [TS]

00:48:08   20,000 people a day [TS]

00:48:11   hey / camp I mean they once they got it [TS]

00:48:14   they were like let's get this done [TS]

00:48:16   well there's the guy and there's like [TS]

00:48:18   the guy you know it's like the famous [TS]

00:48:19   toyota that was before they went to the [TS]

00:48:22   Toyota plant and I see what you're doing [TS]

00:48:24   here at your blanket if this guy this [TS]

00:48:27   guy [TS]

00:48:28   RCMP Tony again up god-king fucking song [TS]

00:48:33   but the longer it goes the trip like and [TS]

00:48:35   he's like wow you guys got a good thing [TS]

00:48:36   going on here let's see what we can do a [TS]

00:48:38   over here [TS]

00:48:39   yeah you don't so close but the second [TS]

00:48:41   thing you know what really grabbed me is [TS]

00:48:43   I don't know if this is the source of [TS]

00:48:44   your anecdote but on our Hitler and [TS]

00:48:46   stuff [TS]

00:48:47   visit when you told the story about the [TS]

00:48:49   the French people [TS]

00:48:51   and parents separating the the mothers [TS]

00:48:54   from their children and how it was the [TS]

00:48:56   french that we're doing it it's like [TS]

00:48:58   when I think that was and watched I've [TS]

00:49:00   been so steeped in Nazis lately i could [TS]

00:49:02   be getting the wrong i think that was [TS]

00:49:04   from the Auschwitz one [TS]

00:49:05   yeah yeah yeah i mean and i can [TS]

00:49:07   recommend that to our listeners if [TS]

00:49:08   you're if you're looking for a lot you [TS]

00:49:09   know what we should just have a an [TS]

00:49:10   annotated bibliography of all the bring [TS]

00:49:12   down things you can listen you could [TS]

00:49:13   watch on your television i have a roku [TS]

00:49:16   with 700 channels i have an apple TV [TS]

00:49:18   with about 70 purchase movies on it and [TS]

00:49:22   I spent everything about Paul look after [TS]

00:49:24   my family goes to sleep I sit in the [TS]

00:49:26   dark and watch things about the [TS]

00:49:27   Holocaust by myself [TS]

00:49:28   yeah but that seems healthy that own [TS]

00:49:30   Scientology I've been thinking a lot [TS]

00:49:32   about the ontology look good you learn [TS]

00:49:34   you grow your ground on top huh yeah um [TS]

00:49:39   I don't know [TS]

00:49:40   you know I go I go around the world [TS]

00:49:41   here's the here's the problem i go out [TS]

00:49:43   in the world I live in Seattle the [TS]

00:49:47   biggest problem we have here is that [TS]

00:49:50   sometimes there will be four people at a [TS]

00:49:53   four-way stop and no one will go first [TS]

00:49:56   and all four people will end up dying [TS]

00:49:59   that was that's like to think that is [TS]

00:50:02   the biggest problem natural causes get [TS]

00:50:04   all died of natural causes that all [TS]

00:50:05   asphyxiate on there on the fumes from [TS]

00:50:08   there idling engines because no one can [TS]

00:50:10   figure out they gotta mpi they call a [TS]

00:50:12   Travel a moment you gently pull over [TS]

00:50:14   pull over and listen to StoryCorps you [TS]

00:50:17   cry a little bit you fucking die in your [TS]

00:50:18   Volvo died in your Volvo that's how [TS]

00:50:20   that's the worst thing that happens in [TS]

00:50:21   Washington State you know a couple of [TS]

00:50:24   rock'n'roll county administrator on will [TS]

00:50:26   be for dead people have been for boys [TS]

00:50:29   and the thing is when they die they're [TS]

00:50:30   there they take their feet off their [TS]

00:50:32   brakes and the four Volvo's all creeped [TS]

00:50:34   into the intersection at the same moment [TS]

00:50:36   and make a swastika haha [TS]

00:50:39   that's the worst thing that happens [TS]

00:50:42   that's and yes mr. and all the other [TS]

00:50:46   onlookers come by first they're going to [TS]

00:50:47   they're gonna give him CPR but then they [TS]

00:50:49   just hit spoofs uh but i'm watching [TS]

00:50:54   Holocaust documentaries and reading [TS]

00:50:56   books about the UH now you might think [TS]

00:50:59   now I'm afraid I am afraid to tell you [TS]

00:51:01   this but my thing now is the war in [TS]

00:51:03   Bosnia oh that was bad i'm reading all [TS]

00:51:06   this stuff about Bosnia and and and so i [TS]

00:51:12   might I thought my head with this [TS]

00:51:14   information which is real and then I go [TS]

00:51:17   out into the world and i'm trying to [TS]

00:51:18   interact with people who are mad at each [TS]

00:51:22   other because somebody said somebody you [TS]

00:51:25   know tweeted about Steubenville Ohio but [TS]

00:51:28   used the wrong hashtag and I'm thinking [TS]

00:51:31   right I'm thinking 20 20,000 people were [TS]

00:51:35   gassed on this day in history it in at [TS]

00:51:40   Auschwitz 20,000 people today you know [TS]

00:51:42   like babies you know about how about [TS]

00:51:46   some about systemized rate in our adult [TS]

00:51:49   life like that is 1990s yet oh no i mean [TS]

00:51:53   like both nothing about the systematic [TS]

00:51:55   part it's like 1994 and that was [TS]

00:51:57   happening 1994 was happening here this [TS]

00:52:01   is our this is our link i mean i don't [TS]

00:52:03   know i mean to sound you know know [TS]

00:52:05   people walking out of their houses and [TS]

00:52:07   getting sniped by their next-door [TS]

00:52:09   neighbors because they are because [TS]

00:52:12   they're Muslim Bosnians instead of [TS]

00:52:15   Orthodox Bosnians and I don't know how [TS]

00:52:20   to contextualize the one whom the one [TS]

00:52:23   humanity and my present humanity [TS]

00:52:26   except except in a way that casts the my [TS]

00:52:31   present humanity the one that I interact [TS]

00:52:33   with every day in Seattle in a [TS]

00:52:35   terrifying light like I this was the [TS]

00:52:38   problem i had when i walked across [TS]

00:52:39   Europe I is why i was perceiving [TS]

00:52:42   everyone as a dormant [TS]

00:52:45   mass killer and I look around my fellow [TS]

00:52:49   citizens in Seattle and I'm i cannot [TS]

00:52:52   take away the feeling that everyone here [TS]

00:52:56   is just waiting to be a bureaucrat in [TS]

00:53:00   some kind of like a systematic death [TS]

00:53:05   machine if they are just given if [TS]

00:53:09   they're just given like twenty percent [TS]

00:53:11   off on their next Boober ride you know [TS]

00:53:15   what I mean like oh it's just it just [TS]

00:53:17   seems like it just seems like the stakes [TS]

00:53:19   of everything and this is why this is [TS]

00:53:22   why cause I'm I'm just turning against [TS]

00:53:24   culture of all kinds on you you wanna [TS]

00:53:26   get back to the capital C culture [TS]

00:53:28   because people people are talking people [TS]

00:53:31   because I wrote that punk rock article [TS]

00:53:33   that that was based on the conversation [TS]

00:53:36   that you and I had on our podcast i [TS]

00:53:38   wrote an article for the Seattle Weekly [TS]

00:53:39   about punk rock and i took a strident [TS]

00:53:44   tone i took my typical declarative tone [TS]

00:53:46   uu inhabited the view point where [TS]

00:53:49   instead of saying I do not like olives i [TS]

00:53:52   said i love suck and if you like olives [TS]

00:53:56   are an idiot's and to me that is the bet [TS]

00:53:59   is essentially the same as saying is [TS]

00:54:01   they still became with you guys you guys [TS]

00:54:03   I do not prefer olives at the end no [TS]

00:54:06   good essays begin with [TS]

00:54:08   fuck you if you like olives shut-eye [TS]

00:54:12   normal i don't mind to maintain when he [TS]

00:54:14   can make his best looks like what it [TS]

00:54:16   dear audience [TS]

00:54:19   fuck you a band this was this or this [TS]

00:54:22   article within the first two days of it [TS]

00:54:25   being published was the most read [TS]

00:54:26   article in the history of the Seattle [TS]

00:54:28   Weekly and had a hundred and fifty [TS]

00:54:29   thousand unique views by like x 72 hours [TS]

00:54:33   bananas and a thousand the lab the last [TS]

00:54:36   time I heard it a thousand comments and [TS]

00:54:40   been growing and I was you know I was [TS]

00:54:44   can I was impressed first of all about [TS]

00:54:46   about ninety percent of the responses [TS]

00:54:48   that made their way to me made it [TS]

00:54:49   updated all the way through to me were [TS]

00:54:50   positive generally positive like an [TS]

00:54:52   either [TS]

00:54:54   yes i agree with you or I disagree with [TS]

00:54:56   you but it is hilarious [TS]

00:54:57   good job [TS]

00:54:58   they were sensible yeah but this ten [TS]

00:55:00   percent of people who so strongly [TS]

00:55:03   identified with punk as a concept house [TS]

00:55:07   a strong so strongly identified [TS]

00:55:09   themselves in their lives with this with [TS]

00:55:11   this cultural little beanie cap that you [TS]

00:55:15   know that they that they basically [TS]

00:55:17   confirmed every ridiculous bias that I [TS]

00:55:21   every exaggerated bias that I wrote in [TS]

00:55:23   my article they confirmed it in spades [TS]

00:55:25   with their death threats and they're you [TS]

00:55:29   know they're like uh you suck because [TS]

00:55:32   your dad had a job comments and you know [TS]

00:55:36   and like you don't know anything about [TS]

00:55:39   anything because fuck you you haven't [TS]

00:55:43   been to my all ages venue in orlando and [TS]

00:55:46   all this stuff and I'm just like as at [TS]

00:55:48   as much as my response to it I mean [TS]

00:55:50   definitely one of the things I realized [TS]

00:55:52   was maybe if I am seeking a larger [TS]

00:55:54   audience [TS]

00:55:55   I should prepare people for for what i [TS]

00:55:59   consider to be a fairly hilarious [TS]

00:56:01   declarative style i should give them a [TS]

00:56:05   little like advanced notice like oh by [TS]

00:56:07   the way I don't really give a fuck about [TS]

00:56:09   your thing just an asshole but I feel [TS]

00:56:14   like that I feel like it but that should [TS]

00:56:16   be apparent just from the picture just [TS]

00:56:18   from the picture of me at that they have [TS]

00:56:20   the head of the article you look at me [TS]

00:56:22   and you're like oh this guy come on [TS]

00:56:24   let's look at this asshole but but also [TS]

00:56:27   I came out the other side feeling like [TS]

00:56:29   culture really really punk-rock really [TS]

00:56:34   it's all it's all just this guy's Muslim [TS]

00:56:39   that guy's Orthodox and it all leads to [TS]

00:56:41   one thing now in my head which is that [TS]

00:56:44   one day this this group of skinheads [TS]

00:56:47   puts that group of skinheads up against [TS]

00:56:49   the wall [TS]

00:56:50   I can't get I can't break this this dark [TS]

00:56:55   feeling about humans and and all of [TS]

00:57:00   their little all of their little etsy [TS]

00:57:03   cufflinks and all of their all of the [TS]

00:57:06   doilies on the backs of their couches [TS]

00:57:09   and everybody's you know like the effort [TS]

00:57:13   they put into getting the earwax out and [TS]

00:57:15   the nose hairs trimmed it all just seems [TS]

00:57:18   like shaving a pig and I had and so what [TS]

00:57:24   it is doing is it's putting this [TS]

00:57:25   distance between me and my books even [TS]

00:57:28   i'm looking at my books and I'm like mm [TS]

00:57:30   it's a bunch of self-justification a lot [TS]

00:57:34   of it a lot of it is just like I think i [TS]

00:57:40   could put i think i could pull for books [TS]

00:57:42   out of my shelves that I would take with [TS]

00:57:47   me you know like Carrie to the next wave [TS]

00:57:51   and the rest of it is all just it's just [TS]

00:57:59   people writing for me novels and people [TS]

00:58:03   people trying to justify what their [TS]

00:58:07   grandfathers did and a lot of its [TS]

00:58:10   variations on a theme around i mean i [TS]

00:58:15   think this especially on the internet [TS]

00:58:17   with what you're describing here which [TS]

00:58:19   is that you know they're certainly [TS]

00:58:20   there's certainly no dearth of rants and [TS]

00:58:25   different kinds of polemic but and when [TS]

00:58:29   those when you're pulling when one's [TS]

00:58:31   polemic reaches people on the other side [TS]

00:58:34   of the fence it just it usually does [TS]

00:58:37   lead to just a shouting match regardless [TS]

00:58:38   of how smart or stupid the polemic was [TS]

00:58:40   but you know not so far off early [TS]

00:58:43   etsy cufflinks i think i feel more and [TS]

00:58:46   more pressure not just me but I mean I [TS]

00:58:50   think I pressure on people in general [TS]

00:58:52   want more pressure to serve the audience [TS]

00:58:55   that you decided to identify with and so [TS]

00:58:58   and but you but in you writing an [TS]

00:59:00   alternative weekly taking that tone take [TS]

00:59:04   some things such a strong point of view [TS]

00:59:07   on that tone and and not coming at it [TS]

00:59:09   from you know as an insider or not [TS]

00:59:12   coming at it from anywhere inside the me [TS]

00:59:14   who's more inside [TS]

00:59:15   well you should come I'll ages club in [TS]

00:59:17   orlando I've been that all ages club in [TS]

00:59:19   orlando and you [TS]

00:59:20   what I'm not paying for dollars for a [TS]

00:59:23   Fanta well a lot of the stuff that i [TS]

00:59:25   read from people who i like a lot and [TS]

00:59:27   are really smart and produce something [TS]

00:59:29   like what you're talking about here [TS]

00:59:30   do you still taste and I do this all the [TS]

00:59:33   time anytime I have something with [TS]

00:59:35   strong point of view i will have an [TS]

00:59:37   element of you guys to it where I feel [TS]

00:59:39   like I need to say first of all I just [TS]

00:59:41   want to say yeah I can't do it [TS]

00:59:43   number 10 I'm just saying though the [TS]

00:59:45   number two you guys just this seriously [TS]

00:59:48   and the thing is it doesn't fucking [TS]

00:59:49   matter you can say all of those things [TS]

00:59:51   all you want a good editor would cut all [TS]

00:59:53   of those out and cut straight to the [TS]

00:59:54   lead which is here what here's what you [TS]

00:59:56   have to say and people can agree or [TS]

00:59:58   disagree with that but [TS]

00:59:58   disagree with that but [TS]

01:00:00   you know there's no because this is what [TS]

01:00:01   happened to Galileo he was like I've [TS]

01:00:05   been reading a been reading Copernicus [TS]

01:00:07   and i agree with them the Sun revolves [TS]

01:00:09   around for the Earth revolves around the [TS]

01:00:11   Sun and mix them up to [TS]

01:00:12   I had the Sun worth whatever I forget it [TS]

01:00:14   forget sometimes it seems like the Sun [TS]

01:00:16   revolves around the earth [TS]

01:00:18   this is the problem you know he said he [TS]

01:00:20   said I agree with this guy this was you [TS]

01:00:22   know this is 50 years ago whatever bye [TS]

01:00:23   agree with them and he didn't say i was [TS]

01:00:27   saying that from Galileo's perspectives [TS]

01:00:29   and I know and and and and he didn't say [TS]

01:00:32   turn into dick campus you know one of [TS]

01:00:34   the most talked-about you don't know [TS]

01:00:36   what you're talking about heliocentrism [TS]

01:00:38   he said that you ever notice that Peter [TS]

01:00:40   until he he didn't say you guys guys [TS]

01:00:44   guys I know what I'm going to say sounds [TS]

01:00:47   radical and might upset the entire power [TS]

01:00:50   structure of our heavily religion based [TS]

01:00:52   society so they pushed him down they [TS]

01:00:55   push them down and they made him that [TS]

01:00:56   they really you know they really held [TS]

01:00:57   his head in the toilet and flushed it a [TS]

01:01:01   couple of times and said yeah what do [TS]

01:01:04   you say now what do you say now I mean [TS]

01:01:06   this is no this is no fun people have [TS]

01:01:08   been laughing together I'm not laughing [TS]

01:01:09   but people have tisk tisk and shook [TS]

01:01:12   their heads at Galileo for ever since [TS]

01:01:13   five hundred years I have been I don't [TS]

01:01:18   know about you I don't know enough to [TS]

01:01:20   disk but both just came because he liked [TS]

01:01:24   usually you know he didn't stand his [TS]

01:01:26   ground get burned at the stake [TS]

01:01:28   whatever but I but something there's a [TS]

01:01:32   couple things and I'm trying to teach [TS]

01:01:34   that you're teasing out here what one is [TS]

01:01:35   this theme of once you have thought a [TS]

01:01:38   lot about zyklon-b business [TS]

01:01:42   relationships and the people who [TS]

01:01:43   supplied the drop them into little mesh [TS]

01:01:45   tube it's hard to take public zoning [TS]

01:01:50   meetings that seriously [TS]

01:01:52   well it's not that it's about public [TS]

01:01:54   stoning meetings are maybe the thing to [TS]

01:01:55   take most serial yet property rights and [TS]

01:01:58   but but i was reading an interesting [TS]

01:01:59   article the other day that ma and the [TS]

01:02:02   thing that the thing that dropped out of [TS]

01:02:04   it the little the little quote the drop [TS]

01:02:06   document and it was one of these things [TS]

01:02:08   where the writer had to see [TS]

01:02:10   he knew he knew that what he was saying [TS]

01:02:14   was going to be breezed over by most [TS]

01:02:17   readers and so he had to say it three [TS]

01:02:19   times in order to make sure that we got [TS]

01:02:24   what he was saying but what he was [TS]

01:02:26   saying was that he was kind of [TS]

01:02:29   paraphrasing oliver wendell holmes and [TS]

01:02:31   he was saying to the point of democracy [TS]

01:02:34   is just that we live democratically if [TS]

01:02:40   we are living democratically that then [TS]

01:02:42   democracy has fulfilled its purpose the [TS]

01:02:45   point of democracy is not to create a [TS]

01:02:49   better society it is not to make sure [TS]

01:02:53   there are no poor it is not to make sure [TS]

01:02:56   the kids do not go hungry the point of [TS]

01:03:00   democracy is just that we are Democrat [TS]

01:03:04   that we are democratic and it does not [TS]

01:03:08   end in mind is the process that [TS]

01:03:10   yeah Primus exactly and we we constantly [TS]

01:03:13   make we constantly make the mistake of [TS]

01:03:15   thinking on both sides of you know the [TS]

01:03:18   American political spectrum that the [TS]

01:03:20   point of democracy is two is that we [TS]

01:03:24   reach a consensus on all these topics or [TS]

01:03:28   that the middle and everybody gets a [TS]

01:03:29   vote on how we round this off so yeah [TS]

01:03:32   that the majority is going to rule and [TS]

01:03:34   therefore the majority has got to find [TS]

01:03:37   the way to this but to the truth i guess [TS]

01:03:42   and we spend all of our time yelling at [TS]

01:03:45   each other when really democracy is [TS]

01:03:48   succeed in and that is the that is it [TS]

01:03:53   the end like democracy is the process [TS]

01:03:56   works there is no other goal and but it [TS]

01:04:04   a different approach than most people [TS]

01:04:05   would say well yeah and and that then [TS]

01:04:08   that's why you know that's why reading [TS]

01:04:09   and i was like huh [TS]

01:04:11   and-and-and with that in mind [TS]

01:04:15   it feels like all the disputes are [TS]

01:04:21   recapitulation of the same disputes they [TS]

01:04:26   are all if we know that on one end there [TS]

01:04:31   is democracy and on the other end there [TS]

01:04:32   are death camps and in between there are [TS]

01:04:37   lots of things at stake but it's always [TS]

01:04:42   been hard for me to get down at the [TS]

01:04:44   level of standing out in front of the [TS]

01:04:46   natural food co-op with a with a [TS]

01:04:48   clipboard and stopping people to talk [TS]

01:04:50   about the Clean Air Act i mean i i've [TS]

01:04:54   done it I but it's hard for me to it's [TS]

01:04:58   hard for me to be that invested in that [TS]

01:05:01   level of like this next incremental step [TS]

01:05:05   is really what I'm devoting myself to [TS]

01:05:07   but but I'm having a really hard time [TS]

01:05:13   living out at the living out of the [TS]

01:05:15   fringe to neither neither fringe place [TS]

01:05:21   is very comfortable [TS]

01:05:22   yeah I I feel the same way um you know [TS]

01:05:27   another thing is i guess it's helpful to [TS]

01:05:31   figure out what you know how we're going [TS]

01:05:34   to finally democracy means but the first [TS]

01:05:36   thing comes to mind for me is democracy [TS]

01:05:37   in the same way as being like social [TS]

01:05:38   media in a sense that with social media [TS]

01:05:40   each of us tend to think of it in one [TS]

01:05:44   way or another as publishing we publish [TS]

01:05:45   something we talk about it [TS]

01:05:46   somebody published something and we [TS]

01:05:48   talked about it but you know I wonder [TS]

01:05:51   how many people who are heavily involved [TS]

01:05:52   in social media would would want to [TS]

01:05:55   participate if all they could do is read [TS]

01:05:57   what other people had to say and in [TS]

01:05:59   democracy we see most interested in [TS]

01:06:02   democracy in the sense that we get to [TS]

01:06:03   vote arm and I think for my guess is [TS]

01:06:07   that for most people it's not as [TS]

01:06:08   interesting there's lots of other people [TS]

01:06:10   voting too because then that breaks [TS]

01:06:12   straight down into the partisan blahdy [TS]

01:06:13   blah blah let's do about this again on [TS]

01:06:15   Twitter kind of stuff [TS]

01:06:16   that's why i have so much Aloha for [TS]

01:06:19   things like the ACLU and for Judaism in [TS]

01:06:21   general general because the ACLU is not [TS]

01:06:24   doesn't really care what your point of [TS]

01:06:25   view is they just want to make sure you [TS]

01:06:26   have a way to say it and I just see did [TS]

01:06:29   I just take a glimpse of the matrix [TS]

01:06:30   there you might have [TS]

01:06:32   it's gone now alright have it then i [TS]

01:06:35   also have this way i can never do this [TS]

01:06:37   but I have an admiration for this [TS]

01:06:38   culture and Judaism of just arguing all [TS]

01:06:40   the time for the sake of argument I mean [TS]

01:06:42   it's really part it's it's part of what [TS]

01:06:45   you do if you're if you're going to be [TS]

01:06:47   in a scholarly tradition am I wrong like [TS]

01:06:50   a lot of what you do is talk about what [TS]

01:06:52   this means and what is right and and [TS]

01:06:55   that's it's not like you're ever going [TS]

01:06:56   to end it and go you know you which mall [TS]

01:06:58   you know it this is the whole point is [TS]

01:07:01   to have this argument that's what we do [TS]

01:07:02   and you never think of it as an argument [TS]

01:07:04   I mean it's just it's a conversation [TS]

01:07:05   that goes on and on and on and involves [TS]

01:07:08   and sometimes somebody make it a dinner [TS]

01:07:09   in that makes it into the book the final [TS]

01:07:12   stitches what the culture is I said this [TS]

01:07:14   the other day and tweeted it was and I [TS]

01:07:15   meant it sir [TS]

01:07:16   sardonically but now i'm now I'm [TS]

01:07:18   thinking about it differently based on [TS]

01:07:20   what you're saying like I said another [TS]

01:07:22   seven billion people in the world and i [TS]

01:07:23   can't wait until each one finds their [TS]

01:07:25   voice and I i meant it in the sense that [TS]

01:07:29   we cannot possibly we cannot possibly [TS]

01:07:32   sustain this we cannot possibly [TS]

01:07:35   sustained through seven billion people [TS]

01:07:37   the amount of like narcissistic self [TS]

01:07:41   reflection that the that the 20 million [TS]

01:07:45   Americans who are on Twitter right now [TS]

01:07:47   are indulging themselves in but maybe [TS]

01:07:51   what you're saying is what like seven [TS]

01:07:54   billion people all arguing [TS]

01:07:57   simultaneously will create some kind of [TS]

01:08:04   ticker tape [TS]

01:08:06   of of consensus knowledge is it depends [TS]

01:08:16   on signal [TS]

01:08:18   yeah maybe i'm just i can I mean I I'm [TS]

01:08:22   very cynical about this i have to admit [TS]

01:08:23   and I this is the fifth time probably i [TS]

01:08:25   set it on here but it always it always [TS]

01:08:27   strikes me that you know that people are [TS]

01:08:31   so much more interested in persuading [TS]

01:08:33   other people to a think that the think [TS]

01:08:36   the way that they do even if it's really [TS]

01:08:38   fucked up silly way of thinking but then [TS]

01:08:40   to be thinking away that comports with [TS]

01:08:43   how that would be advantageous to me [TS]

01:08:45   there's not that many people who spend [TS]

01:08:47   all day going out there and trying to [TS]

01:08:49   listen to other people to develop a [TS]

01:08:51   better view point i don't but the point [TS]

01:08:53   is in in all these cases what I'm [TS]

01:08:55   getting out poorly is that all the [TS]

01:08:57   people who crow about how great all [TS]

01:08:58   these things are are mostly just did [TS]

01:09:00   their current a lot about themselves [TS]

01:09:02   people who love democracy love their [TS]

01:09:04   their democracy the people of social [TS]

01:09:05   media love their social media the people [TS]

01:09:07   who have freedom love their freedom the [TS]

01:09:10   it's just that there are these these [TS]

01:09:11   increasingly useless and slippery [TS]

01:09:15   capital letter nouns that we fight over [TS]

01:09:17   all the time and I'm not sure how far we [TS]

01:09:19   get with it because you know it really [TS]

01:09:21   is more about talking and listening and [TS]

01:09:24   that is never clear then we start [TS]

01:09:26   yelling at each other about politics as [TS]

01:09:28   i said at nauseam and gets back to this [TS]

01:09:30   old idea of mine we said again before [TS]

01:09:33   which is like when's the last time you [TS]

01:09:34   change your mind cause somebody yelled [TS]

01:09:36   action called you dumb ass [TS]

01:09:37   I mean there's so much of that going on [TS]

01:09:39   there's not that many people out there [TS]

01:09:40   going to show me how i'm a dumbass [TS]

01:09:41   because i want to get better at this [TS]

01:09:43   democracy i want ultimately this is the [TS]

01:09:46   thing about the Bosnian war that this is [TS]

01:09:48   what is so dispiriting about it is that [TS]

01:09:50   for however many years 50 years they all [TS]

01:09:55   lived under Tito more or less peacefully [TS]

01:09:59   side-by-side and whatever their disputes [TS]

01:10:03   were whatever the arguments were [TS]

01:10:04   whatever the [TS]

01:10:08   whatever the whatever they arrived at [TS]

01:10:10   whatever their process was ultimately [TS]

01:10:13   when there was nobody watching they just [TS]

01:10:16   killed each other because of what their [TS]

01:10:17   religion was or or what they perceived [TS]

01:10:20   their ethnicity and ethnicities were [TS]

01:10:22   although they were all slobs as far as I [TS]

01:10:25   could tell anybody anybody anybody [TS]

01:10:28   that's not a slob looked at the mall [TS]

01:10:30   been like I don't know y'all look like [TS]

01:10:31   slobs your blonde your darker Yeltsin [TS]

01:10:34   that big noses but their little my new [TS]

01:10:37   differences in there it's lava tudes was [TS]

01:10:41   enough and and they and they killed each [TS]

01:10:44   other not i mean just brutally just the [TS]

01:10:47   worst kind of brutal like ethnic [TS]

01:10:49   cleansing and so I mean they're not [TS]

01:10:53   dissimilar from the cities and the Hutus [TS]

01:10:56   I mean same thing I mean that the in [TS]

01:10:59   Rwanda it was I think worse because it [TS]

01:11:02   was being done with hatchets is cut your [TS]

01:11:04   arms off but but but that said like if [TS]

01:11:09   you are a parent and someone comes and [TS]

01:11:11   takes your child on your handed and then [TS]

01:11:13   kills them in front of you it's pretty [TS]

01:11:15   bad no matter what weapon they use but [TS]

01:11:18   but so I so I listened to our national [TS]

01:11:21   debate and I listened to the peanut the [TS]

01:11:23   way that we're pushing them and pushing [TS]

01:11:25   the ball back and forth were pushing [TS]

01:11:27   pushing the debate we're making the case [TS]

01:11:30   for all these different things and I [TS]

01:11:34   just I am drawn back to the drawing [TS]

01:11:42   board [TS]

01:11:42   to the the apparatus that it's [TS]

01:11:44   supporting that i'm i'm i'm i'm drawn to [TS]

01:11:48   the the Capitol building in Washington [TS]

01:11:50   DC and I pray to God that it that it's [TS]

01:11:55   that it stands you know i'm drawn back [TS]

01:11:58   to the to the process because I'm no [TS]

01:12:02   longer interested so much in the [TS]

01:12:04   conversation because without the process [TS]

01:12:07   the conversation just it devolves [TS]

01:12:09   instantly you know like like we we have [TS]

01:12:13   pushed that we have pushed the human [TS]

01:12:14   rights ball pretty far in the last [TS]

01:12:16   hundred years but in 1994 in in Bosnia [TS]

01:12:22   and in 1996 in Rwanda when was it and [TS]

01:12:26   remember me soon [TS]

01:12:27   and unlike them i mean the ball got [TS]

01:12:30   pushed all the way back all the way back [TS]

01:12:33   to where it started like in the blink of [TS]

01:12:37   an eye and it didn't matter that there [TS]

01:12:39   were that they were modern countries or [TS]

01:12:42   that inner none of it mattered and the [TS]

01:12:45   this this this feeling that i because [TS]

01:12:48   what happened was I said somebody a [TS]

01:12:50   friend of mine wrote me based on [TS]

01:12:52   something i said on the podcast is quote [TS]

01:12:54   the Martin Luther King quote where I [TS]

01:12:55   said the the arc of history is long but [TS]

01:13:00   it bends toward justice [TS]

01:13:03   and this friend of mine wrote me he was [TS]

01:13:04   like do you really believe that [TS]

01:13:06   and you know and I said it kind of at [TS]

01:13:11   the time [TS]

01:13:11   sort of like hopeful / aspirational and [TS]

01:13:17   also a little bit like here's a cliche [TS]

01:13:19   but you know the art [TS]

01:13:24   history is long and on the one hand and [TS]

01:13:28   part of that length is that sometimes it [TS]

01:13:31   it goes all the way back to the start [TS]

01:13:34   I don't see that happening in San [TS]

01:13:40   Francisco but died but i also have not [TS]

01:13:48   you know i am not a hundred percent [TS]

01:13:49   clear as the father of a daughter I'm [TS]

01:13:54   not a hundred percent clear how to [TS]

01:13:55   advise her as she grows up [TS]

01:13:58   like what kind of world she lives and I [TS]

01:14:00   don't want to just be here I don't want [TS]

01:14:03   to say don't get into a car with a bunch [TS]

01:14:06   of strange boys who have been drinking [TS]

01:14:08   and feel like I've done as much as I can [TS]

01:14:11   do but I'm at a loss [TS]

01:14:19   well how do you how do you know um how [TS]

01:14:22   do you know when it's going well with [TS]

01:14:25   the process I mean and I i know you you [TS]

01:14:29   have to keep a certain removed from [TS]

01:14:30   Daniel day-lewis don't think about that [TS]

01:14:31   Lincoln movie which I watched a couple [TS]

01:14:32   times and I thought was pretty great and [TS]

01:14:34   just the whole idea of like how and I [TS]

01:14:36   don't again I don't know how much of it [TS]

01:14:37   is precisely factual but the whole idea [TS]

01:14:39   of like all the you know everything you [TS]

01:14:42   would ever hear about in terms of you [TS]

01:14:44   know smokey backroom stuff to get off [TS]

01:14:46   the wheeling and dealing and bribing and [TS]

01:14:48   this end of that to get the 13th [TS]

01:14:51   amendment across you know i mean in that [TS]

01:14:55   is in some sense the system working [TS]

01:14:57   right i mean if that's how it's always [TS]

01:14:58   been there [TS]

01:14:59   I don't think there's ever been a day [TS]

01:15:00   where everybody just showed up and was [TS]

01:15:02   no Bolin agreed by mutual assent that [TS]

01:15:04   everything will be great if that's part [TS]

01:15:06   of the process the right i mean that's [TS]

01:15:07   part of that as they say the sausage [TS]

01:15:08   getting made right and how do you have [TS]

01:15:10   you known in the middle of the bloodiest [TS]

01:15:13   war in American history where where you [TS]

01:15:17   know where Sherman burned atlanta he was [TS]

01:15:19   burning atlanta at but that's have fed [TS]

01:15:21   that very moment I haven't seen the [TS]

01:15:23   movie but but but he had to do I mean [TS]

01:15:25   according to the point of this movie had [TS]

01:15:27   to do some pretty pretty big for honesty [TS]

01:15:29   here to do some pretty big fitting [TS]

01:15:31   because that the none of it was that [TS]

01:15:35   even people who were sort of probable [TS]

01:15:38   the amendment were saying well you know [TS]

01:15:40   if this war is gonna end and we think it [TS]

01:15:43   might be basically they're making the [TS]

01:15:45   south is making moves to say hey look [TS]

01:15:47   let's talk about how we can win this [TS]

01:15:48   thing down this is this is two or three [TS]

01:15:50   months before the end and Lincoln's like [TS]

01:15:52   going on you know we're still gonna make [TS]

01:15:54   this happen and so they go and kind of [TS]

01:15:56   systematically you know person by person [TS]

01:15:58   it's a really good movie target they can [TS]

01:16:01   get to vote for it because it's going to [TS]

01:16:03   be such a close about anyway I'm just [TS]

01:16:04   frustrated [TS]

01:16:05   oh yeah but all that aside i'm just [TS]

01:16:06   curious though what one way out of this [TS]

01:16:08   incredibly depressing morass is-is-is [TS]

01:16:11   know but like for example I i think i [TS]

01:16:13   think i understand and i think i'm with [TS]

01:16:14   you about this idea that is it is a too [TS]

01:16:18   fast to say like that the rhetoric is [TS]

01:16:20   useful if it's in the service of the [TS]

01:16:22   process but the process still has to has [TS]

01:16:25   to work on some fundamental level that [TS]

01:16:26   big pointy building has to have that [TS]

01:16:28   happening in yeah 20 years ago i was i [TS]

01:16:31   was very much like I was I was consumed [TS]

01:16:36   with a fascination with um with [TS]

01:16:38   american-style democracy and how [TS]

01:16:41   important it was and how magical it was [TS]

01:16:44   and how unlike anything that happened [TS]

01:16:47   before in history it was and over the [TS]

01:16:53   years my admiration for it i think got [TS]

01:16:58   lost in the weeds of the way our culture [TS]

01:17:02   has devolved and feeling time and time [TS]

01:17:06   again that like oh well the system is [TS]

01:17:08   not working very well then it's [TS]

01:17:13   producing all these all these situations [TS]

01:17:16   that are like that are uh they're just [TS]

01:17:20   ugly [TS]

01:17:21   it's it I feel like our nation is a [TS]

01:17:24   bruised Apple but I feel like the only [TS]

01:17:28   way out of my of my alien a [TS]

01:17:34   mission is to go back up to the place [TS]

01:17:38   where even in spite of the last 20 years [TS]

01:17:43   american-style democracy is the most [TS]

01:17:45   amazing technology [TS]

01:17:49   and I and I and I i want to be a [TS]

01:17:53   supporter of it and almost it requires [TS]

01:17:57   that because I've never believed in [TS]

01:18:00   non-partisanship I've always I've always [TS]

01:18:03   thought it was just a thing that [TS]

01:18:04   reporters lied about but you mean in [TS]

01:18:09   terms of like fair and balanced I'm [TS]

01:18:11   gonna walk this middle is non-existent [TS]

01:18:12   middle yeah I don't believe I don't [TS]

01:18:14   believe such a thing is true and yet I [TS]

01:18:17   feel pulled mail to a place where my [TS]

01:18:21   allegiance is to is to is to our [TS]

01:18:26   Constitution and constitutional [TS]

01:18:28   democracy and anything that serves it i [TS]

01:18:33   am i am a friend of and anything that [TS]

01:18:35   impedes it i am a foe of because all of [TS]

01:18:42   the all of the pit fighting all the [TS]

01:18:44   small beer [TS]

01:18:47   uh I you know I leave to others i guess [TS]

01:18:51   because at while i'm thinking of a way [TS]

01:18:54   to to shore up the the edifice you know [TS]

01:19:02   to shore up the hall where it's all [TS]

01:19:04   taking place [TS]

01:19:05   I don't know what I don't know I know [TS]

01:19:07   right now I just was asked to be on the [TS]

01:19:09   steering committee for the re-election [TS]

01:19:11   of Seattle's mayor and I'm thinking in [TS]

01:19:17   these terms like a getting getting back [TS]

01:19:21   involved in democratic politics is [TS]

01:19:25   thinking are you I can hear you being of [TS]

01:19:28   two very different minds about I never [TS]

01:19:31   thought I really want to get involved in [TS]

01:19:32   this moretz democratic politics that I [TS]

01:19:35   really fucking believe in but oh my god [TS]

01:19:37   yeah well and I mean local politics are [TS]

01:19:39   different in in the sense that i can put [TS]

01:19:41   my hands on on the problems that the [TS]

01:19:44   port of seattle yeah I grew up with it [TS]

01:19:46   to some extent right i mean with your [TS]

01:19:48   dad right on my uncle and everybody we [TS]

01:19:50   already talked about local you know the [TS]

01:19:53   the sewers and the and the parks but I [TS]

01:19:59   don't know that this these Holocaust [TS]

01:20:01   documentaries i cannot watch them and [TS]

01:20:03   turn them off and then be free of the [TS]

01:20:07   Holocaust you know I can't and I can't [TS]

01:20:09   imagine you do either [TS]

01:20:10   well I can't imagine otherwise I would [TS]

01:20:13   have just watched one [TS]

01:20:14   Yeah right right but you keep watching [TS]

01:20:16   you keep trying can I think there's [TS]

01:20:17   something I me not to be melodramatic [TS]

01:20:19   it's it's amazing dramatic viewing but [TS]

01:20:22   also i get i do keep looking for [TS]

01:20:24   something that either makes a ton more [TS]

01:20:27   sense or at unless sense because because [TS]

01:20:30   when I find you know one or the other [TS]

01:20:32   I don't know something feels maybe not [TS]

01:20:34   explained but but it i don't know I you [TS]

01:20:40   want you ever made it makes sense if [TS]

01:20:42   Hitler is just a madman but when you [TS]

01:20:45   realize that and one man didn't get that [TS]

01:20:47   much accomplished [TS]

01:20:48   yeah when you realize that the [TS]

01:20:50   innovation the primary innovation at [TS]

01:20:53   Auschwitz was that some lieutenants who [TS]

01:20:57   realized that they were that they had [TS]

01:21:00   this that they were they were fumigating [TS]

01:21:02   their uniforms to kill the lice with [TS]

01:21:04   this cyclone be stuff that was like a [TS]

01:21:07   that was like an insecticide and he was [TS]

01:21:10   like well what if we put this in the [TS]

01:21:12   room with some humans like really really [TS]

01:21:15   like fucking James Burke moment because [TS]

01:21:17   it's around the same time the again this [TS]

01:21:19   is somebody talked about on the phone [TS]

01:21:20   the other day and unreleased call but [TS]

01:21:22   you know it's too costly to have bullets [TS]

01:21:25   you gotta dig all those pits and then [TS]

01:21:27   they started writing the problems with [TS]

01:21:28   like a while we've gotten really good at [TS]

01:21:29   the gassing but now now we have to go [TS]

01:21:31   build grills to augment the crematoria [TS]

01:21:34   is now we can get rid of the bodies fast [TS]

01:21:36   enough and it's just an engineering [TS]

01:21:37   problem we deal with a little bit every [TS]

01:21:39   week [TS]

01:21:39   yeah we just hire this guy and the guy [TS]

01:21:41   comes in and he's like well I'm an [TS]

01:21:42   engineer but I can you know I don't have [TS]

01:21:45   anything personally against like all [TS]

01:21:47   these mothers the size interviews my god [TS]

01:21:51   doesn't really just as you described as [TS]

01:21:53   interviews with the guys who work there [TS]

01:21:56   like that one guy who just just like now [TS]

01:21:58   I just I just hate the Jews I don't know [TS]

01:22:00   maybe not any of it [TS]

01:22:02   the Jews were really a they were really [TS]

01:22:04   you know making it hard on those Germans [TS]

01:22:06   22 yeah a scale of is a new again let's [TS]

01:22:09   go back to a million of these other [TS]

01:22:11   kinds of you know us versus them things [TS]

01:22:13   I you know what the juice screwed up my [TS]

01:22:16   family you know side starting before [TS]

01:22:18   world war one but then especially after [TS]

01:22:20   you know where we will go around this in [TS]

01:22:22   my words not his but you know push [TS]

01:22:24   around these wheelbarrows full of [TS]

01:22:25   useless money and all these guys with [TS]

01:22:28   long beards are making bank off of it [TS]

01:22:31   you know I I nothing just the other [TS]

01:22:34   thing i mentioned to you from that I was [TS]

01:22:37   sorry this is our first episode back in [TS]

01:22:39   a while and I'm so and I'm just like so [TS]

01:22:42   depressed [TS]

01:22:44   yeah that'll help ya there might be [TS]

01:22:48   people that is going to help you you [TS]

01:22:50   could pick up all night watching Hitler [TS]

01:22:51   people are going to people are driving [TS]

01:22:53   across the world can stand there like a [TS]

01:22:55   new episode of the line i'm gonna put it [TS]

01:22:57   in and I'm gonna listen to lose my [TS]

01:23:00   forever girl [TS]

01:23:00   oh the thing that struck so what what I [TS]

01:23:03   watched the other night that I was [TS]

01:23:04   telling you about on the roku 700 [TS]

01:23:07   channels i went straight to archive.org [TS]

01:23:09   and watch 1945 government films you know [TS]

01:23:12   this but basically they're real love [TS]

01:23:15   five basically the the the army went in [TS]

01:23:19   and I guess the Russians liberated most [TS]

01:23:22   of the camps but basically they went in [TS]

01:23:25   when stuff was still there still people [TS]

01:23:26   there some living and they went in with [TS]

01:23:29   cameras and they just straight-up [TS]

01:23:32   fucking shot was there and they did not [TS]

01:23:35   pull any punches [TS]

01:23:37   it's really interesting to watch that [TS]

01:23:38   starts with affidavits like a picture of [TS]

01:23:40   the affidavit on screen as maybe 45 is [TS]

01:23:43   not real [TS]

01:23:43   hifi and one of them is the officer who [TS]

01:23:46   is like in charge of the project the [TS]

01:23:47   other affidavit is a filmmaker whose you [TS]

01:23:49   know ben Phillips 1920 and he's been in [TS]

01:23:51   the Army instead it on he's going to [TS]

01:23:53   certify that all this is correct and [TS]

01:23:55   they just don't jump straight into like [TS]

01:23:58   I sunken mouth open corpses being [TS]

01:24:01   carried out of mass graves the [TS]

01:24:03   descriptions on and on it's completely [TS]

01:24:05   appalling and i SAT and watched it for a [TS]

01:24:08   pretty long while and it was just it's [TS]

01:24:10   engrossing but it's awful but like i [TS]

01:24:13   told you the of all all that awfulness [TS]

01:24:15   since we all been party to seeing some [TS]

01:24:17   of this awfulness and films and stuff [TS]

01:24:18   before you know sixty years after but [TS]

01:24:21   but in intelligence the one that really [TS]

01:24:23   struck me so you know my eyes and our is [TS]

01:24:28   it some of these things patent is it [TS]

01:24:30   some of these things one of the other [TS]

01:24:32   big guys forget who were there and you [TS]

01:24:35   know they're walking through and in so [TS]

01:24:37   many of these cases what they would go [TS]

01:24:39   and this is what the victor gets to do [TS]

01:24:41   they go into the village nearby you know [TS]

01:24:45   ash which linker or you know [TS]

01:24:47   bergen-belsen or whatever and you go in [TS]

01:24:48   and you are they would pull out the [TS]

01:24:51   local burgers [TS]

01:24:52   maybe the mayor you bring in the [TS]

01:24:54   citizens ladies and fancy hats have been [TS]

01:24:56   eating fine for pretty much for floor [TS]

01:24:57   heaters and they walk them through the [TS]

01:25:00   fucking camp they walk them past the [TS]

01:25:02   open graves they walk him they make them [TS]

01:25:03   go in and show them you know all these [TS]

01:25:06   deliberate killing devices there's just [TS]

01:25:11   one scene though that is indelibly stuck [TS]

01:25:14   in my mind which is it that they [TS]

01:25:15   describe this one took a little shack [TS]

01:25:18   right is it is pretty small little house [TS]

01:25:20   and it's just it's just a pile of bodies [TS]

01:25:23   i mean it's a pile of bodies like eight [TS]

01:25:25   feet high just you can't tell what Lynn [TS]

01:25:27   belongs to what trunk and it's just a [TS]

01:25:29   big pile of bodies unlike that course is [TS]

01:25:31   a lady because she's got long hair and [TS]

01:25:33   it's apparently the stench in this [TS]

01:25:36   thing was so overwhelming I mean you [TS]

01:25:39   can't even imagine what a what a big [TS]

01:25:41   pile of bodies would be like and they [TS]

01:25:43   take the people from the village and the [TS]

01:25:45   guys in in like fedoras and and you know [TS]

01:25:48   bespoke suits and they walk them in and [TS]

01:25:51   the officers stand there and watch them [TS]

01:25:53   walk in and like and you can see the [TS]

01:25:54   point in going you're going to go in [TS]

01:25:55   there and you're gonna look at this and [TS]

01:25:56   you're going to stand in this room for a [TS]

01:25:58   few minutes and then after a few minutes [TS]

01:26:00   they start filing out nobody's crying [TS]

01:26:03   some people are holding handkerchiefs [TS]

01:26:05   over there knows because it's obviously [TS]

01:26:06   intolerable and the next scene is them [TS]

01:26:09   shaking their heads they're not crying [TS]

01:26:11   they are as they say in Scientology they [TS]

01:26:14   are pie-faced they don't have any [TS]

01:26:15   expression on their face and it's just [TS]

01:26:17   the equivalent of like well I i don't i [TS]

01:26:20   don't know about this i don't know what [TS]

01:26:21   was this is yeah this is a thing I idea [TS]

01:26:24   we didn't know about this i can help you [TS]

01:26:26   and that's a me maybe it's just that [TS]

01:26:29   that contrast of all this horribleness [TS]

01:26:31   and me sitting here at you know at one [TS]

01:26:33   in the morning watching this and just [TS]

01:26:34   thinking what the fuck has happened in [TS]

01:26:36   the last century but just the fact it [TS]

01:26:39   that's this is that's what eats at me [TS]

01:26:41   and it sounds get some part of what eats [TS]

01:26:43   at you is the people who could walk out [TS]

01:26:45   of there and as you said them you know [TS]

01:26:47   the monster inside all of this like [TS]

01:26:48   those guys had kids that they love those [TS]

01:26:50   guys had grandkids those people went to [TS]

01:26:52   church and stuff and they could walk out [TS]

01:26:55   of there and just shake their head in [TS]

01:26:56   fedora like well yeah that's not really [TS]

01:26:59   bad [TS]

01:27:00   well this is the mean part of the [TS]

01:27:02   problem of the 20th century is that we [TS]

01:27:04   have demonized the German people in a [TS]

01:27:09   certain way the drug the Germans live in [TS]

01:27:11   all of our minds in this in this strange [TS]

01:27:13   public because on the one hand right [TS]

01:27:16   post-war Germany like isn't it is both [TS]

01:27:20   an economic miracle and also west [TS]

01:27:22   germans were our allies in our pal [TS]

01:27:24   Beatles were playing their 15 years [TS]

01:27:25   after that [TS]

01:27:26   yeah and and so like in in some ways we [TS]

01:27:30   were able to convert our thinking on the [TS]

01:27:34   Germans who like an interrupted from [TS]

01:27:38   being our mortal enemies to then being [TS]

01:27:42   the worst monsters in history to then [TS]

01:27:46   being on the Reeperbahn in 60 you know [TS]

01:27:49   63 we and you know like West Germany we [TS]

01:27:53   shall Michelle and the reality is that [TS]

01:27:56   the Germans are not monsters so and that [TS]

01:28:01   somehow the lesson of the 20th century [TS]

01:28:03   that we are all monsters did not get [TS]

01:28:07   learned very well they're deliberate [TS]

01:28:12   monsters and we did the things that we [TS]

01:28:13   had to do to stop them but they have a [TS]

01:28:15   special place in history as a country [TS]

01:28:17   for being the worst monsters they did [TS]

01:28:20   some terrible terrible monstrous things [TS]

01:28:22   but Stalin killed way way more that's [TS]

01:28:26   all right but if thats kinda get the [TS]

01:28:27   right that's our constellation [TS]

01:28:28   constellation is we have identified who [TS]

01:28:31   the problem is here and it's not us [TS]

01:28:33   it will never be us right but it was not [TS]

01:28:36   very long after that that we were [TS]

01:28:37   dropping flaming canisters of liquid [TS]

01:28:41   like jelly gasoline jellied gasoline on [TS]

01:28:45   villages of a full of naked children and [TS]

01:28:50   like we are we have all we are all crazy [TS]

01:28:54   and yet we are convinced that were [TS]

01:29:00   saying and we're so Mary about it [TS]

01:29:04   we're so quick to dismiss all of these [TS]

01:29:06   instances as as unique or aberrational [TS]

01:29:09   instances of terror of of terrible [TS]

01:29:13   people doing terrible things over here [TS]

01:29:15   in this corner is so confident our [TS]

01:29:17   smugness and somehow we get up I i get [TS]

01:29:20   on the freeway every day and I'm just [TS]

01:29:21   driving down the street it's like all [TS]

01:29:22   right this freeway is full of people in [TS]

01:29:23   every one of them is a crazy animal and [TS]

01:29:27   I yet i am confident that we will all [TS]

01:29:29   stay in our lanes that the guy in front [TS]

01:29:32   of me and the guy next to me and the guy [TS]

01:29:33   behind me are going to stay in their [TS]

01:29:34   fucking lanes and I feel safe and you [TS]

01:29:42   know and it and through that same state [TS]

01:29:45   that seem like painted lines on upon the [TS]

01:29:47   pavement we are capable of a mass murder [TS]

01:29:53   through the same process follow the [TS]

01:29:55   yellow line follow line it's going to [TS]

01:29:57   take a right and that's going to go down [TS]

01:29:58   some stairs [TS]

01:30:00   although yellow line got we're going to [TS]

01:30:03   just gonna take a shower you know and so [TS]

01:30:06   so I but those yellow lines are what you [TS]

01:30:09   are what are getting that they guarantee [TS]

01:30:11   me guaranteed to me that the guy driving [TS]

01:30:13   a an 18-wheeler next to me isn't just [TS]

01:30:17   going to decide you know what I'm just [TS]

01:30:18   gonna kill everybody and he doesn't [TS]

01:30:20   there will be consequences [TS]

01:30:21   where where we are protected by the law [TS]

01:30:23   from the people who who are foolish [TS]

01:30:25   enough to not honor the yellow lines [TS]

01:30:27   right and so the kid the kid in [TS]

01:30:29   Connecticut goes crazy and shoots a [TS]

01:30:30   bunch of people in a in an elementary [TS]

01:30:32   school and we all have like a like a [TS]

01:30:35   two-day national reckoning about it and [TS]

01:30:37   it becomes a conversation about guns and [TS]

01:30:42   yet I look around and I'm just like you [TS]

01:30:45   know my neighbors are just they are we [TS]

01:30:50   we have not we have not really moved the [TS]

01:30:53   ball on asking ourselves who we are why [TS]

01:30:57   be good [TS]

01:30:59   why if we are not motivated by a fear of [TS]

01:31:03   God and a fear of hell [TS]

01:31:05   why else be good and i do not have a i [TS]

01:31:12   do not have a satisfactory answer i [TS]

01:31:16   cannot keep waking up and saying because [TS]

01:31:19   of some complicated Darwinian family [TS]

01:31:23   group survival model that is why we are [TS]

01:31:28   nice to our neighbors because it is a [TS]

01:31:29   it's a mutual mutually beneficial like [TS]

01:31:32   food gathering group that is not that is [TS]

01:31:36   not working and and I don't feel like [TS]

01:31:40   all the effort that we have put into as [TS]

01:31:43   human beings trying to discern the good [TS]

01:31:47   trying to develop ethics and ethical [TS]

01:31:49   system that is that hinges on on [TS]

01:31:54   altruism or hinges on the idea that is [TS]

01:31:59   not a Hobbesian world was somehow we've [TS]

01:32:03   abandoned that project or were satisfied [TS]

01:32:05   what we got as far as like Jefferson and [TS]

01:32:08   where were fine with it then we all can [TS]

01:32:10   meet your kind of made it look a little [TS]

01:32:11   bit [TS]

01:32:13   too dark in that room and we decided to [TS]

01:32:15   like leave it to the French like nobody [TS]

01:32:18   is nobody has a has a good answer [TS]

01:32:22   religion is going bonkers everywhere why [TS]

01:32:26   be good [TS]

01:32:29   [Music] [TS]

01:32:33   so anyway yeah I got talking about cars [TS]

01:32:44   already started by outer that was a good [TS]

01:32:52   one [TS]