Roderick on the Line

Ep. 65: "Trumpet Discrimination"


00:00:00   hello [TS]

00:00:05   I John hi Merlin how's it going good [TS]

00:00:12   surely it's early it's literally my [TS]

00:00:25   daughter's got a persistent cough yeah [TS]

00:00:28   it's going around everybody's got it [TS]

00:00:30   yeah it's it's gotten productive which [TS]

00:00:32   is hard when you're a kid [TS]

00:00:33   yeah that's bad yeah it's just taking [TS]

00:00:36   expectorant as much as I'd like I'm [TS]

00:00:38   totally fine with driving our daughter [TS]

00:00:41   up in my wife is kind of rude about it [TS]

00:00:43   OIC yeah but there's a lot going around [TS]

00:00:46   that introduces school and there [TS]

00:00:49   everything's going around the edges are [TS]

00:00:51   hotbeds of sick little sponges I [TS]

00:00:55   throughout my sponges all the time [TS]

00:00:56   they're disgusting scott simpson Bobby [TS]

00:00:58   someone he considered some kind of magic [TS]

00:01:01   Japanese sponge prices for everything [TS]

00:01:03   you want to that one store [TS]

00:01:04   yeah and I and it was it's great except [TS]

00:01:07   here's the thing [TS]

00:01:08   it's a white sponge yeah now if you're [TS]

00:01:11   going to if you're going to make a [TS]

00:01:12   sponger color don't make a white now [TS]

00:01:15   that's a terrible color that first time [TS]

00:01:17   I used it then it looked like i used it [TS]

00:01:19   on something that was dirty and then I [TS]

00:01:21   had like a permanently dirty sponge you [TS]

00:01:23   gotta live with that I gotta live with [TS]

00:01:25   that I'll every time I go to the sink i [TS]

00:01:26   turn the water and look down and here's [TS]

00:01:28   this sponge that's like spoiled well and [TS]

00:01:31   you know a lot of its breeding I think [TS]

00:01:33   like we're not from wealthy families and [TS]

00:01:36   you know certain kinds of things in the [TS]

00:01:38   home you use them until they're not [TS]

00:01:40   usable anymore that's my background [TS]

00:01:42   yeah but scott simpson you're saying you [TS]

00:01:45   would they use the sponge once and then [TS]

00:01:47   they threw it out the window and the [TS]

00:01:48   gardener took it away [TS]

00:01:50   mm I think that's where he is now [TS]

00:01:52   absolutely as you know he's extremely [TS]

00:01:54   rich from a context is rich and but I [TS]

00:01:58   think he's from a very modest background [TS]

00:02:00   to with one exception of ever told you [TS]

00:02:02   this you know his mom had a band and [TS]

00:02:05   what [TS]

00:02:06   yeah GD had uniforms like it may be [TS]

00:02:08   marching band i don't think so i think [TS]

00:02:10   was a rock band [TS]

00:02:11   they did you really yeah they played out [TS]

00:02:14   you know that kind of playing out where [TS]

00:02:15   you play at your friends events and I'm [TS]

00:02:17   guessing they probably would just assume [TS]

00:02:18   you just brought ice [TS]

00:02:20   I don't know children yeah yeah and so [TS]

00:02:22   so he was in a amazing situation that I [TS]

00:02:25   would have killed for which is he could [TS]

00:02:26   just walk downstairs with his pals and [TS]

00:02:29   there's a hole in the basement there's [TS]

00:02:30   like a whole setup we could just walk [TS]

00:02:33   down there and like play instruments [TS]

00:02:34   will now hear this [TS]

00:02:35   this just brings me to an interesting [TS]

00:02:37   internal dilemma that I have which is [TS]

00:02:41   that I went to a pop music conference [TS]

00:02:44   last weekend when I was the keynote [TS]

00:02:45   speaker [TS]

00:02:47   haha it took place in Bellingham [TS]

00:02:49   Washington [TS]

00:02:50   yeah like where this is going and fat [TS]

00:02:53   and so I I prepared this speech [TS]

00:02:57   blah blah blah speech but I got to the [TS]

00:02:59   top conference early in contravention of [TS]

00:03:01   my normal method i'm showing up to an [TS]

00:03:03   event one second before i take the stage [TS]

00:03:05   it's better for security reasons if [TS]

00:03:07   nothing else I when I went instead and i [TS]

00:03:10   attended out maxing out in the green [TS]

00:03:13   room for five hours [TS]

00:03:14   well no he did not now he walked in and [TS]

00:03:16   that was the beginning of a satisfactory [TS]

00:03:18   could see the door so I go to this thing [TS]

00:03:21   and I go to all these panels and it's [TS]

00:03:23   happening in bellingham washington ice [TS]

00:03:24   is sure to you sure you rather I do not [TS]

00:03:28   assure to you to her [TS]

00:03:29   mm-hmm I every one of these panels is [TS]

00:03:36   blowing my mind and it's blowing my mind [TS]

00:03:37   primarily because they're talking about [TS]

00:03:39   pop music and pop news business but [TS]

00:03:42   there is an element of like the the [TS]

00:03:48   expectation of the panelists was that [TS]

00:03:50   they would address some issues they [TS]

00:03:52   would address the issue of social [TS]

00:03:53   justice they would address the issue of [TS]

00:03:57   community building and inclusiveness as [TS]

00:04:00   they were answering questions about how [TS]

00:04:02   do i get my band signed and how do I you [TS]

00:04:07   know like how do i promote my record [TS]

00:04:09   above via social media but how do I [TS]

00:04:11   about also how do I further the cause of [TS]

00:04:15   social justice and increased diversity [TS]

00:04:18   into Poppins or in in like the music [TS]

00:04:22   scene in general [TS]

00:04:23   and and there was and there was a [TS]

00:04:25   predictable amount of like sort of like [TS]

00:04:27   mild college like bubbling hostility in [TS]

00:04:33   that goes along with both the asker's [TS]

00:04:36   and the answers of questions like that [TS]

00:04:37   and the whole you know the whole day the [TS]

00:04:41   premise was like um yeah hi um I'm just [TS]

00:04:45   wondering why are there not more Inupiaq [TS]

00:04:49   rock bands as anybody really thought [TS]

00:04:52   about that and like maybe we should all [TS]

00:04:55   look at our our playlists and see like [TS]

00:04:59   that like we don't have any Inupiat [TS]

00:05:02   bands and is that a problem [TS]

00:05:04   I don't know i'm not sure my question is [TS]

00:05:06   M and the end up for the person that's [TS]

00:05:09   on the panel is like like someone who [TS]

00:05:12   works in the music business and they're [TS]

00:05:14   like uh ah I don't you know like like [TS]

00:05:20   like absolutely flabbergasted at what [TS]

00:05:23   how to try to answer that question [TS]

00:05:24   well cast question maybe the were you [TS]

00:05:27   aware and where the other panelists [TS]

00:05:29   aware that social justice would be a [TS]

00:05:31   focus of the bellingham pop conference [TS]

00:05:33   or howhow prepared were you in your [TS]

00:05:37   remarks for example [TS]

00:05:39   yeah well my remarks had no elements no [TS]

00:05:43   social social justice consideration in [TS]

00:05:46   them since Ron hey Ron I was up there I [TS]

00:05:51   was getting ready to give a keynote [TS]

00:05:52   speech at this bar conference that was [TS]

00:05:54   basically a hate crime and so on the fly [TS]

00:05:58   I through my notes in the garbage can [TS]

00:06:00   and I should recycle that's i did in [TS]

00:06:04   fact i did in fact recycling and you [TS]

00:06:06   know [TS]

00:06:06   and truth be told i was using Merlin [TS]

00:06:09   Mann three-by-five cards which I never [TS]

00:06:12   used to do but i do it now and an homage [TS]

00:06:15   to you thank you so so by the time I got [TS]

00:06:19   to my by the time we arrived at my [TS]

00:06:21   keynote speech i had been to 10 panels [TS]

00:06:24   and every one of them have this kind of [TS]

00:06:28   like we need to search our souls to see [TS]

00:06:31   how we can make it easier for everybody [TS]

00:06:36   in the world [TS]

00:06:37   to become a rock star and and by that we [TS]

00:06:40   don't mean like how to make it easier in [TS]

00:06:42   the world for everybody to be a rock [TS]

00:06:43   star and then also by the way how do i [TS]

00:06:45   get my band on the radio and so i got up [TS]

00:06:49   at things I mean just to be honest I [TS]

00:06:51   mean being a rock star seems pretty [TS]

00:06:53   phallocentric and patriarchal well don't [TS]

00:06:57   you think I mean shouldn't we shouldn't [TS]

00:06:58   we all be equal i can like I i could not [TS]

00:07:02   speak to that and and and part of it was [TS]

00:07:05   just that like being a rock star really [TS]

00:07:08   i mean that's really that's really still [TS]

00:07:11   thing that we do what I wanted in your [TS]

00:07:15   guitar at the spot but I wanted to I [TS]

00:07:18   wanted to address it because they were [TS]

00:07:20   there were actually some very thoughtful [TS]

00:07:21   panelists and and and in general you [TS]

00:07:27   know I I feel like that I feel like that [TS]

00:07:29   dialogue of like um hi [TS]

00:07:31   yeah I I just feel like people with [TS]

00:07:34   allergies should be allowed to play [TS]

00:07:37   coachella but there's a lot of dust in [TS]

00:07:39   the air so how do how do we make [TS]

00:07:42   coachella accessible to people with [TS]

00:07:44   allergies like I feel like that kind of [TS]

00:07:47   question is is almost reflexive in like [TS]

00:07:53   students now where they're not invested [TS]

00:07:57   in in the question they are sitting in [TS]

00:08:01   there sitting in a lecture hall and [TS]

00:08:02   they're thinking how can i like how do i [TS]

00:08:05   phrase a question that is going to be a [TS]

00:08:09   that's going to be kind of a mic drop [TS]

00:08:11   like nobody thought of that [TS]

00:08:14   like I i found it i found a a [TS]

00:08:17   under-represented group of people that [TS]

00:08:19   nobody thought of and now you're all [TS]

00:08:21   wishing that you had thought of our [TS]

00:08:23   music is chella it's kinda it becomes a [TS]

00:08:26   way of speaking truth to power [TS]

00:08:28   yeah exactly not that much power there [TS]

00:08:30   and probably a fairly scant amount of [TS]

00:08:32   truth [TS]

00:08:33   yeah that and there isn't and and and [TS]

00:08:35   and it has become a scenario where [TS]

00:08:37   people are not actually seeking equality [TS]

00:08:40   anymore for anybody [TS]

00:08:42   it is just a it's just a a game of like [TS]

00:08:45   I have I have exposed [TS]

00:08:49   the inequality and so gold star for me i [TS]

00:08:53   asked a question and now I can go back [TS]

00:08:55   to to facebooking and the professor the [TS]

00:09:00   professor in every case is forced by by [TS]

00:09:03   the by the energy or by the by the [TS]

00:09:05   convention that he has to he or she has [TS]

00:09:08   to consider that question legitimately [TS]

00:09:11   you know what I mean like the professor [TS]

00:09:12   the professor is not in a position to [TS]

00:09:14   say you know what that's a that's an [TS]

00:09:16   irrelevant question or or or rather [TS]

00:09:18   rather the answer which is is ultimately [TS]

00:09:23   true which is it is impossible to make [TS]

00:09:25   the world completely accessible to [TS]

00:09:27   everyone it is simply impossible and so [TS]

00:09:29   every question phrased within the you [TS]

00:09:34   know within the umbrella of our end game [TS]

00:09:37   is to make everything absolutely even [TS]

00:09:41   and fair is it is the same question [TS]

00:09:43   basically and it doesn't matter whether [TS]

00:09:45   you are saying in New Piet's or people [TS]

00:09:48   with allergies or people with social [TS]

00:09:50   anxiety disorder it is the same question [TS]

00:09:52   over and over which is how do we make [TS]

00:09:54   the world completely fair and we cannot [TS]

00:09:56   so what we can do is inspire in certain [TS]

00:10:00   places but it isn't but the game is not [TS]

00:10:02   to just keep keep finding a smaller and [TS]

00:10:05   smaller aperture you know [TS]

00:10:07   yeah anyway so i get up at the pop [TS]

00:10:10   conference and I say the the reality [TS]

00:10:15   about making art is that the best art is [TS]

00:10:21   made in reaction to restriction or [TS]

00:10:25   limitation that the the the culture in [TS]

00:10:30   prague in the seventies and sixties [TS]

00:10:33   produced a whole generation of [TS]

00:10:35   playwrights and artists that were [TS]

00:10:38   working in reaction to the regime and as [TS]

00:10:43   soon as the regime fell all of that art [TS]

00:10:47   come in name up check play right now you [TS]

00:10:51   can't really because who knows one and I [TS]

00:10:54   think he passed [TS]

00:10:55   well there was that one that became the [TS]

00:10:57   president of the country you know that [TS]

00:10:59   is that is the role that are played at [TS]

00:11:03   that came up in a repressive regime now [TS]

00:11:06   there are probably 1,000,000 check [TS]

00:11:08   playwrights and none of them stand out [TS]

00:11:09   and the reality is we have made making [TS]

00:11:12   pop music incredibly easy there is no [TS]

00:11:15   difficulty at all [TS]

00:11:16   anyone of any age or gender can do as [TS]

00:11:21   much pop music as they want but it has [TS]

00:11:23   not improved the quality of pop music if [TS]

00:11:26   you know what I mean like there are a [TS]

00:11:28   million bands now and none of them are [TS]

00:11:30   good because having a barrier to entry [TS]

00:11:33   having it be difficult is what makes [TS]

00:11:37   people make good art they make good art [TS]

00:11:40   almost exactly because they are [TS]

00:11:44   experiencing the challenge of being [TS]

00:11:47   forced to make art as their primary [TS]

00:11:51   voice you know it was me it's like [TS]

00:11:53   making a diamond like you don't make a [TS]

00:11:55   diamond by by spreading out the soil and [TS]

00:11:57   bring it iced tea [TS]

00:11:58   you know and and you know there has to [TS]

00:12:00   be a certain for that passion to come [TS]

00:12:02   out there has to be [TS]

00:12:03   yeah maybe it's a reaction maybe there's [TS]

00:12:05   influences but they're happy some some [TS]

00:12:07   kind of a crucible I think in most cases [TS]

00:12:09   but like in that the whole thing is so [TS]

00:12:11   misdirected I don't even know where to [TS]

00:12:14   begin [TS]

00:12:15   like if so you're going to create social [TS]

00:12:17   justice by coming in and talking about [TS]

00:12:19   pop music in a room I I can't even I [TS]

00:12:23   can't even begin to address that but but [TS]

00:12:25   the other thing is like it [TS]

00:12:28   are they are they people in bellingham I [TS]

00:12:30   mean so i'm guessing it was an extremely [TS]

00:12:32   diverse audience of people who had the [TS]

00:12:35   time to come in and go to a pop music [TS]

00:12:36   conference about social justice better [TS]

00:12:38   zinc extraordinarily diverse there was [TS]

00:12:40   no there was the white kid that was [TS]

00:12:42   making it pop em there was the highways [TS]

00:12:45   that was making aI don't know there was [TS]

00:12:48   a there's a half asian guy but he was on [TS]

00:12:50   a panel [TS]

00:12:51   anyway the the the the point of all that [TS]

00:12:53   was I have been I've been wrestling [TS]

00:12:55   since the time my daughter was born with [TS]

00:12:58   the fact that I have a house full of [TS]

00:12:59   instruments [TS]

00:13:01   and when i was growing up i bought my [TS]

00:13:06   first guitar a while i bought my first [TS]

00:13:07   guitar from my sisters friend who bought [TS]

00:13:10   it at a swap meet [TS]

00:13:13   she my sister had a friend who is she [TS]

00:13:15   she and her friend we're going to start [TS]

00:13:16   an all-girl duran duran cover band and [TS]

00:13:20   my sister bought a keyboard and her [TS]

00:13:22   friend Tracy butter guitar and they set [TS]

00:13:26   up in the basement and they put their [TS]

00:13:28   fedoras on and their scarves and their [TS]

00:13:32   pirate shirts and they put on Rio and [TS]

00:13:37   plugged in their keyboard in their [TS]

00:13:38   guitar and and went back like like like [TS]

00:13:42   like like like and they realize that [TS]

00:13:44   they couldn't play these instruments and [TS]

00:13:46   and didn't have a real interest in [TS]

00:13:48   learning an instrument they just wanted [TS]

00:13:50   to be in a drain cover band right it's [TS]

00:13:53   so they say stacked the instruments in [TS]

00:13:56   the corner where they SAT gathering dust [TS]

00:13:59   and I walked past him everyday and [TS]

00:14:02   looked at them and a about a month later [TS]

00:14:05   I i said to the two girls i was like hey [TS]

00:14:08   I'm guys gonna do anything with those [TS]

00:14:13   and Tracy sold me her guitar for 25 [TS]

00:14:16   bucks and my sister course out of spite [TS]

00:14:19   said don't touch my keyboard and it sat [TS]

00:14:22   in the corner she went off the ski sat [TS]

00:14:25   in the corner [TS]

00:14:26   she never touched it I never touched it [TS]

00:14:28   it had an inch of dust on it eventually [TS]

00:14:30   and then at one point she owed me some [TS]

00:14:32   money and I was like I'll take that [TS]

00:14:35   keyboard and she was happy to have it go [TS]

00:14:38   so i ended up with all the duran duran [TS]

00:14:40   cover band instruments [TS]

00:14:42   I don't want to really from the daughter [TS]

00:14:44   thing because I'd love to talk about [TS]

00:14:46   that but there's this other part of this [TS]

00:14:47   that obsesses me in the things that I [TS]

00:14:49   think about which is on the one hand [TS]

00:14:51   sort of trying to solve the wrong [TS]

00:14:53   problem and how that's not how the best [TS]

00:14:55   thing that you can do for somebody it if [TS]

00:14:57   you had experienced similar experience [TS]

00:14:59   is to help them understand that as Noble [TS]

00:15:02   or as theoretically interesting as your [TS]

00:15:05   goals are if you're trying to solve the [TS]

00:15:06   wrong problem you're going to Burma [TS]

00:15:08   screwed because and then you can just [TS]

00:15:10   dig in further and get deeper and deeper [TS]

00:15:12   and matter and matter and demonstrate [TS]

00:15:13   more and more [TS]

00:15:14   but you know I think our entire culture [TS]

00:15:17   is trying to solve their own problems [TS]

00:15:18   but will they sure are there's like [TS]

00:15:20   three problems with this and then the [TS]

00:15:21   second one is that you know carpenters [TS]

00:15:24   who make a lot of furniture don't go to [TS]

00:15:26   conferences and ask about social justice [TS]

00:15:28   and carpentry they go out and they build [TS]

00:15:30   lots of stuff and then they try to be [TS]

00:15:32   decent human beings and they understand [TS]

00:15:34   that those are are pretty different [TS]

00:15:35   things if you don't get your hands [TS]

00:15:37   around it [TS]

00:15:38   you're never gonna solve the right [TS]

00:15:40   problem that was persuaded there was one [TS]

00:15:42   one panelist who said something very [TS]

00:15:44   interesting because i am we we [TS]

00:15:48   constantly hear about institutionalized [TS]

00:15:51   inequality and I'm for people that are [TS]

00:15:54   our age we've been hearing about it our [TS]

00:15:55   whole our whole adult lives I mean this [TS]

00:15:58   was a this was a concept that was [TS]

00:16:00   introduced to us first but during the [TS]

00:16:03   civil rights movement where where we we [TS]

00:16:07   had to be educated to the fact that just [TS]

00:16:10   because now blacks had the right to vote [TS]

00:16:13   did not necessarily mean that they had [TS]

00:16:17   equal opportunity in the in the country [TS]

00:16:20   and it was a it was a process of [TS]

00:16:22   Education of people who had never [TS]

00:16:24   experienced deprivation that they had to [TS]

00:16:27   learn like oh I see what you mean if you [TS]

00:16:30   grow up in a place where there is you [TS]

00:16:32   know where it where racism is [TS]

00:16:35   institutionalized even if on the surface [TS]

00:16:39   of things everybody has the same rights [TS]

00:16:41   you really are having a very different [TS]

00:16:43   experience of living in America and it [TS]

00:16:45   is a tremendous it does present a [TS]

00:16:48   tremendous disadvantage right so that [TS]

00:16:50   was a process of Education that happened [TS]

00:16:52   in America over the course of our our [TS]

00:16:57   whole lives it's been happening and as [TS]

00:17:00   time has gone on that franchise of [TS]

00:17:03   disenfranchisement has been extended so [TS]

00:17:07   then it was then immediately how you can [TS]

00:17:11   take the build vocabulary and [TS]

00:17:14   sensibilities of of really deeply [TS]

00:17:17   systematically oppressed peoples and [TS]

00:17:19   then apply to people with bikes right [TS]

00:17:22   but but when when the when the you know [TS]

00:17:26   the women's rights move [TS]

00:17:27   happened it was a say it was a similar [TS]

00:17:29   process of like oh wait a minute you [TS]

00:17:31   mean even even well-to-do women who [TS]

00:17:35   lived a comfortable lives in the city [TS]

00:17:37   are also write disenfranchised wow [TS]

00:17:40   that's a new that's a new mental [TS]

00:17:42   technology and everybody never would [TS]

00:17:44   have thought of that right yeah and it [TS]

00:17:45   took years to sink in and again that [TS]

00:17:49   happen throughout the course of our [TS]

00:17:50   lives and and so then yeah then the [TS]

00:17:53   franchise kept getting extended until [TS]

00:17:55   now it's like people with people with [TS]

00:17:58   allergies people with a myopia people [TS]

00:18:02   with social anxiety disorder people with [TS]

00:18:05   whatever and they are they are it you [TS]

00:18:08   know making themselves equivalent to two [TS]

00:18:13   people who have to actually struggle [TS]

00:18:15   between hates that is people who [TS]

00:18:16   actually struggled in well and also me i [TS]

00:18:20   hate it too but but there's an [TS]

00:18:23   expectancy I think there's a tendency [TS]

00:18:25   among among everybody and in particular [TS]

00:18:28   a dare I say it among those of us who [TS]

00:18:33   who are constantly reminded that we [TS]

00:18:37   benefit from the structure which is to [TS]

00:18:40   say white men we benefit from the from [TS]

00:18:44   the inequality and we benefit from [TS]

00:18:46   unconsciously and they're there is a [TS]

00:18:49   tendency on our part to say oh my god [TS]

00:18:51   we've been hearing about this our whole [TS]

00:18:52   lives [TS]

00:18:53   can we can we stop fighting the same [TS]

00:18:56   battle but I had had a very interesting [TS]

00:19:00   it right i heard of an interesting thing [TS]

00:19:03   on one of the panels which was a [TS]

00:19:04   thoughtful woman who said you know when [TS]

00:19:07   I was in fourth grade and i joined band [TS]

00:19:13   i wanted to play the trumpet and i was [TS]

00:19:17   guided by the hand over to the clarinets [TS]

00:19:22   and flutes in and as she said it I was [TS]

00:19:26   like well of course of course you were [TS]

00:19:30   the clarinet and flute is the girls [TS]

00:19:32   instrument of the trumpet is a boy's [TS]

00:19:34   instrument and it it was a it was the [TS]

00:19:37   most resonant [TS]

00:19:38   [Music] [TS]

00:19:40   a example of of of this kind of like [TS]

00:19:45   ingrained institutionalized gender role [TS]

00:19:51   based inequality that i had heard in [TS]

00:19:54   years [TS]

00:19:55   you know because I because you're so [TS]

00:19:57   used to being politicized about it and [TS]

00:19:59   people's talking about like a like a [TS]

00:20:01   friend of mine came home and said you [TS]

00:20:04   know quoted the oft-quoted statistic [TS]

00:20:06   like women are paid 72 cents on the [TS]

00:20:07   dollar and I said is that true at your [TS]

00:20:10   at your office or do you feel like you [TS]

00:20:13   are paid 72 cents to the dollar that [TS]

00:20:15   your comparably educated and talented [TS]

00:20:19   co-workers paid and she said what no of [TS]

00:20:21   course not right and I said does anyone [TS]

00:20:24   you know work in an environment where [TS]

00:20:27   that is the case and she said no and I [TS]

00:20:31   said so what [TS]

00:20:32   what is I mean I understand the [TS]

00:20:35   statistic but but when you say it when [TS]

00:20:40   you say it when you come home and say [TS]

00:20:41   like women are paid 72 cents on the [TS]

00:20:43   dollar it is a you say it with with a [TS]

00:20:46   considerable amount of peak you are [TS]

00:20:49   angry about it but it isn't something [TS]

00:20:51   that you or anybody you know is [TS]

00:20:52   personally experiencing so who are those [TS]

00:20:54   people who are being paid 72 cents on [TS]

00:20:56   the dollar if you guys if you if you are [TS]

00:20:58   making the equivalent of your male [TS]

00:21:00   counterparts that means in order for [TS]

00:21:02   that statistic to be true [TS]

00:21:03   there must be women somewhere in America [TS]

00:21:06   who are being paid thirty cents on the [TS]

00:21:07   dollar right and I wonder if they're [TS]

00:21:11   really if if there if there are two [TS]

00:21:14   people working the same job and one of [TS]

00:21:16   them is because of her gender really [TS]

00:21:18   being paid that much or if it's a [TS]

00:21:19   statistic that has been massaged and [TS]

00:21:23   repeated so many times that we take it [TS]

00:21:28   as we take it as given without examining [TS]

00:21:31   it i don't know where suffice [TS]

00:21:36   say that I walked away from this [TS]

00:21:37   experience both like kind of newly [TS]

00:21:42   serious about this trumpet the trumpet [TS]

00:21:50   flute trumpet discrimination the trumpet [TS]

00:21:53   discrimination and also like and also my [TS]

00:21:59   feeling was reinforced that that that no [TS]

00:22:05   one is can no one is really talking [TS]

00:22:07   about like what's the what is the [TS]

00:22:09   long-term plan for this movement that [TS]

00:22:13   has become an institution now it is a [TS]

00:22:15   revolutionary movement to extend equal [TS]

00:22:20   rights to all that is that is a Marxist [TS]

00:22:25   argument ultimately to each according to [TS]

00:22:28   his need from each according to his [TS]

00:22:30   ability and we are we are very happy to [TS]

00:22:35   fight little tiny battles about it all [TS]

00:22:39   day every day my twitter feed is full of [TS]

00:22:41   people saying well there's another [TS]

00:22:44   example of a war on women and and then i [TS]

00:22:48   click through the link and it's like [TS]

00:22:50   something that just is it is just an [TS]

00:22:55   interesting news article not [TS]

00:22:56   particularly an example of a war on [TS]

00:22:59   women [TS]

00:22:59   I mean a you know it is just two parts [TS]

00:23:03   is that the drive me a little bananas i [TS]

00:23:05   mean the the metal part is I really I [TS]

00:23:08   really resent being saddled with the [TS]

00:23:12   idea that like because i think it's [TS]

00:23:15   silly to live inside of these [TS]

00:23:18   abstractions I don't think that these [TS]

00:23:19   are important things I think they're [TS]

00:23:21   important if you want to fucking raise [TS]

00:23:23   want you to ask for one in because that [TS]

00:23:25   yeah we can point to a million [TS]

00:23:26   statistics about other people became [TS]

00:23:29   point is statistics about ourselves but [TS]

00:23:31   you know at the one on the one hand I [TS]

00:23:32   understand why you would want to adopt [TS]

00:23:34   that attitude because it can be very [TS]

00:23:37   powerful and can help help bring people [TS]

00:23:39   together but the second part is it [TS]

00:23:41   always is so frequently seems to be [TS]

00:23:42   about like legislating a change of heart [TS]

00:23:46   and people that aren't you using all [TS]

00:23:48   about like what [TS]

00:23:49   let's sit around in this room and set an [TS]

00:23:51   agenda for how we can make other people [TS]

00:23:53   better you know and and like images [TS]

00:23:56   ladies change of heart in someone who's [TS]

00:23:58   not you [TS]

00:23:59   yeah that's that is perfect that is a [TS]

00:24:01   perfect description of it [TS]

00:24:03   well if you if you want social justice [TS]

00:24:04   want to get off your ass like once you [TS]

00:24:06   stop treating it as a problem that needs [TS]

00:24:08   to be solved by a panel of people in pop [TS]

00:24:10   music and why don't you go out and do [TS]

00:24:11   something and if you want the Rays ask [TS]

00:24:14   for you can see if you want to still [TS]

00:24:15   like hang your head and and talk about [TS]

00:24:18   how like you know oppressed you are [TS]

00:24:21   that's certainly something you're you're [TS]

00:24:22   free to do but you know we've come a [TS]

00:24:25   long way from the 1960s it if you go and [TS]

00:24:28   you if you feel like you're getting 72 [TS]

00:24:30   cents on the dollar ask for a fucking [TS]

00:24:32   raise that's your that's who you are if [TS]

00:24:35   you want to be going power yourself go [TS]

00:24:36   get out there and do it and if you can [TS]

00:24:38   find a way to bring social justice and [TS]

00:24:39   pop music [TS]

00:24:40   why don't you leave the fucking [TS]

00:24:41   conference and go out there and do it [TS]

00:24:43   get your hands around the problem learn [TS]

00:24:45   which parts of it you can do something [TS]

00:24:46   about and quit worrying about how to [TS]

00:24:48   change the rest of the world because it [TS]

00:24:49   doesn't work [TS]

00:24:50   yeah the at I think that is the kind i [TS]

00:24:53   think that is ultimately the thing that [TS]

00:24:54   that is the string that resonates most [TS]

00:24:57   deeply it's good enough women do that [TS]

00:24:59   then it's not going to be a problem [TS]

00:25:00   anymore [TS]

00:25:01   well ultimately all these questions are [TS]

00:25:03   our questions that are resolved when you [TS]

00:25:07   raise your kids right and when you raise [TS]

00:25:11   your kids to think differently and [TS]

00:25:14   behave differently in the world and it [TS]

00:25:18   really is a it really is a thing where [TS]

00:25:20   you you change your own heart you [TS]

00:25:23   evangelize yourself you are the primary [TS]

00:25:27   mission field and then your family and [TS]

00:25:32   really the I had a very interesting [TS]

00:25:36   exchange of a few years ago on twitter [TS]

00:25:38   where I when I asked somebody I I kind [TS]

00:25:40   of asked the the group this exact [TS]

00:25:43   question like can you through [TS]

00:25:46   application of law [TS]

00:25:49   really really changed the hearts and [TS]

00:25:52   minds of the people or who are you [TS]

00:25:58   you know i mean i think in America we [TS]

00:26:01   see a lot of the division that we have [TS]

00:26:04   now like the clear division between the [TS]

00:26:08   two halves of our nation a lot of it is [TS]

00:26:12   the product of trying to use [TS]

00:26:16   prescriptive law to change the hearts [TS]

00:26:20   and minds of half the population what [TS]

00:26:25   what what a legacy of efficacy we have [TS]

00:26:27   for that [TS]

00:26:28   yeah so we keep saying I mean the [TS]

00:26:31   abortion rights issue is a thing that we [TS]

00:26:35   have been we've been fighting this [TS]

00:26:36   battle of the bloody cultural battle [TS]

00:26:38   that takes up all of our you know it [TS]

00:26:42   takes up the whole center of our [TS]

00:26:43   national dialogue and the the reality is [TS]

00:26:49   that the that Roe versus Wade was a [TS]

00:26:51   badly decided piece of law and that's [TS]

00:26:58   why it's constantly under assault [TS]

00:26:59   because they think they can beat it [TS]

00:27:03   they think it's bad law and they think [TS]

00:27:04   they have a shot at the the [TS]

00:27:06   anti-abortion people yeah the Act the [TS]

00:27:08   anti-abortion people think they can beat [TS]

00:27:09   it because it's it is bad law and it's [TS]

00:27:12   just a matter of time before the right [TS]

00:27:14   combination of supreme court justices [TS]

00:27:17   decide to look at it you know it in the [TS]

00:27:20   narrow confines of the of the legal [TS]

00:27:24   decision and overturn it not be not on a [TS]

00:27:26   moral basis but overturn it because it's [TS]

00:27:29   you know because it was kind of a shitty [TS]

00:27:31   piece of legal thinking but you know the [TS]

00:27:35   reality i think is that it bro vs wade [TS]

00:27:38   was overturned there would be there [TS]

00:27:42   would be an immediate and mad rush to [TS]

00:27:45   write new law in its place that was [TS]

00:27:48   better [TS]

00:27:49   I mean the of the best thing that could [TS]

00:27:50   happen to the abortion rights movement [TS]

00:27:52   is that Roe versus Wade be overturned [TS]

00:27:55   because the next piece of law would be [TS]

00:27:56   ironclad [TS]

00:27:57   I mean I feel like the I feel like the [TS]

00:28:00   Ark of social justice is long are they [TS]

00:28:03   are the arc of history is long but it [TS]

00:28:04   points toward social justice [TS]

00:28:06   I think that's absolutely true i think [TS]

00:28:08   that that it is inevitable that we are [TS]

00:28:11   becoming more liberal and more inclusive [TS]

00:28:14   and more accessible to everyone right [TS]

00:28:19   but but we keep trying to we keep trying [TS]

00:28:24   to use the the lever of law to bring all [TS]

00:28:30   these people that are that are Gina that [TS]

00:28:33   really all we can do is kind of wait for [TS]

00:28:35   them to die and wait for their kid wait [TS]

00:28:38   for their kids to approve gay marriage [TS]

00:28:41   you know that we could have made gay [TS]

00:28:44   marriage legal by the force of law 25 [TS]

00:28:46   years ago and it would have it would [TS]

00:28:48   have sparked a armed insurrection in the [TS]

00:28:52   South but we suffered those 20 years and [TS]

00:28:59   now it's happening and it's happening [TS]

00:29:01   not because we check now because the law [TS]

00:29:05   forced people and not because which [TS]

00:29:07   really change anybody's minds but just [TS]

00:29:09   because the young people came up and [TS]

00:29:11   they liked MTV and they watched Sheena [TS]

00:29:14   queen of the desert and they're like [TS]

00:29:15   yeah that seems reasonable and they're [TS]

00:29:18   just attitudes changed and this is that [TS]

00:29:20   you know I remember being great [TS]

00:29:23   persuaded by by malcolm x and x a martin [TS]

00:29:29   luther king when they said you know all [TS]

00:29:32   wherever told by YT is that we need to [TS]

00:29:35   wait it's not time yet we need to wait [TS]

00:29:38   and we're done waiting we're tired of [TS]

00:29:41   waiting [TS]

00:29:41   that and the time is now and I and and [TS]

00:29:45   that was very persuasive and it produced [TS]

00:29:47   it produced real action real motion that [TS]

00:29:50   had you know where culturally we were [TS]

00:29:54   stalled in this weird separate-but-equal [TS]

00:29:56   miasma [TS]

00:29:59   but there but that mentality like when [TS]

00:30:03   you say well you know after after fifty [TS]

00:30:08   thousand years like maybe get maybe give [TS]

00:30:11   it another ten when you when you say [TS]

00:30:14   that now what we're talking about sort [TS]

00:30:18   of any kind of kind of sea change in the [TS]

00:30:22   culture you say that to a group of [TS]

00:30:23   people and they're they're so quick to [TS]

00:30:26   say like that's what every white man [TS]

00:30:27   says wait don't think about going back [TS]

00:30:30   to asking for a raise just as a [TS]

00:30:32   practical example you know if you if you [TS]

00:30:35   it's obviously it's more related to your [TS]

00:30:37   own merits but if you've ever had a job [TS]

00:30:40   you know that there's some really good [TS]

00:30:41   time to ask for a raise and some [TS]

00:30:43   terrible times to ask for the Rays and [TS]

00:30:45   if you really do want to raise I really [TS]

00:30:46   isn't completely related but if you want [TS]

00:30:48   to get a raise and it means a lot to you [TS]

00:30:50   you have to prepare for that you have to [TS]

00:30:52   have you have to know all of the facts [TS]

00:30:55   and understand them in context with [TS]

00:30:57   reality and the truth is there are [TS]

00:30:59   better and worse time to ask for a raise [TS]

00:31:02   but if you are prepared when that time [TS]

00:31:04   does come you're gonna have a much [TS]

00:31:06   better chance whether or not like have [TS]

00:31:08   no matter how much you want it doesn't [TS]

00:31:10   matter what matters is whether you're [TS]

00:31:12   prepared and and then in context can ask [TS]

00:31:14   it at the right time where somebody will [TS]

00:31:15   of course i'll give you a raise not [TS]

00:31:17   stupid but you know but the fact just [TS]

00:31:19   doesn't kind of kind of doesn't it can [TS]

00:31:21   matter how much you want it and [TS]

00:31:22   certainly there have been things that [TS]

00:31:23   changed but but i'm with you and you [TS]

00:31:27   know there's two times that I I feel a [TS]

00:31:29   little bit p kid from you again things [TS]

00:31:32   like Twitter but also just the whole [TS]

00:31:33   world like obviously doing sports events [TS]

00:31:35   but the other thing is during elections [TS]

00:31:36   because every election or anytime [TS]

00:31:39   there's some kind of political tumbled [TS]

00:31:41   going on everybody's pick their side [TS]

00:31:43   ec least in my Twitter feed or amongst [TS]

00:31:45   my friends I see everybody locking arms [TS]

00:31:48   to make fun of the other side to [TS]

00:31:50   browbeat them to call them stupid and to [TS]

00:31:52   talk about all the ways that they're [TS]

00:31:54   wrong wrong wrong and wrong wrong and [TS]

00:31:57   this is this is maybe really reductive [TS]

00:31:59   but this is how I look at it I will ask [TS]

00:32:00   you exactly one question when is the [TS]

00:32:03   last time that somebody calling you [TS]

00:32:05   stupid and saying how little you knew [TS]

00:32:07   change your mind because people can sit [TS]

00:32:09   around all day long and [TS]

00:32:11   funny Fox TV and shoot fish in a [TS]

00:32:13   conservative barrel but honestly if [TS]

00:32:16   you're so goddamn smart when is the last [TS]

00:32:17   time that you sat and watched fox news [TS]

00:32:20   and heard about how stupid you are and [TS]

00:32:21   you want you know what I am kind of [TS]

00:32:22   stupid [TS]

00:32:23   I don't think people do that i don't [TS]

00:32:24   think it's effective and all it does i [TS]

00:32:27   mean on a larger scale obviously it just [TS]

00:32:29   makes us more you know we start to see [TS]

00:32:32   the other side is inhuman and as soon as [TS]

00:32:34   you see that quote unquote other side to [TS]

00:32:36   begin with let you know what we're all [TS]

00:32:37   kind of in the same pot and the more we [TS]

00:32:40   try and find some kind of a common [TS]

00:32:41   ground and certainly the politicians do [TS]

00:32:42   the better off there but I'm trying to [TS]

00:32:44   say is like you know in addition to this [TS]

00:32:46   being an incredibly complex problem with [TS]

00:32:48   a million different angles [TS]

00:32:49   I don't think you change hearts and [TS]

00:32:51   minds through either legislation or by [TS]

00:32:53   making fun of people [TS]

00:32:54   yeah you know and you consider [TS]

00:32:56   reconsidering around a room all day long [TS]

00:32:57   and and come up with some kind of bill [TS]

00:32:59   of rights for people who play mandolins [TS]

00:33:01   but i'm not sure that's going to make [TS]

00:33:02   black people any better off when it [TS]

00:33:04   comes time to go to bonnaroo em whoa [TS]

00:33:06   there's a lot of impact in that last [TS]

00:33:08   sound angry there's a thing on there is [TS]

00:33:10   nothing on out that you know local or [TS]

00:33:13   the California Public Radio think today [TS]

00:33:15   that was really got me thinking I think [TS]

00:33:17   it's related and it has to do with the [TS]

00:33:19   aging population the last the oldest of [TS]

00:33:22   the oldest of baby boomers turned she is [TS]

00:33:26   the youngest baby boomers turn like 65 [TS]

00:33:28   this year the point being that there are [TS]

00:33:30   fewer and fewer there are more people [TS]

00:33:32   who are going to need benefits or what [TS]

00:33:34   benefits that they have coming to them [TS]

00:33:35   and fewer and fewer people that are [TS]

00:33:37   going to be able to supply it right and [TS]

00:33:39   you know what compounds that hugely is [TS]

00:33:42   that due to things like the bat like bad [TS]

00:33:44   economies and things like legislation we [TS]

00:33:46   don't have enough immigrants coming here [TS]

00:33:48   anymore and we don't have enough illegal [TS]

00:33:50   immigrants coming here anymore and so [TS]

00:33:52   all the sudden everything that we did to [TS]

00:33:54   keep immigrants from coming here through [TS]

00:33:56   legislation and so forth is now harming [TS]

00:33:58   california in addition to have a lot [TS]

00:34:00   less people that does to sit there in [TS]

00:34:02   the Sun and pick lettuce that no white [TS]

00:34:03   person was to pick now we also have this [TS]

00:34:06   bigger problem of we're not gonna be [TS]

00:34:07   able to pay for all of these things so I [TS]

00:34:10   mean to me there's unintended [TS]

00:34:11   consequences to all these sorts of [TS]

00:34:12   things but it really comes down to [TS]

00:34:14   getting off your ass [TS]

00:34:15   get off twitter and could do something [TS]

00:34:17   about it if it matters to you want to do [TS]

00:34:19   something about it you know Martin [TS]

00:34:20   Luther King did not sit around typing a [TS]

00:34:23   hundred forty characters and try to [TS]

00:34:24   change the world [TS]

00:34:25   it's just that you know you're not [TS]

00:34:26   invested in that you're invested until [TS]

00:34:28   the next to change a color your icon an [TS]

00:34:30   angry now and we're going to get us on [TS]

00:34:32   the next thing comes along I'm less [TS]

00:34:34   worried about people you know the [TS]

00:34:35   chattering classes on Twitter and and [TS]

00:34:37   and but they think they're helping John [TS]

00:34:39   well I know but I don't contributing to [TS]

00:34:41   the body politic but I don't care about [TS]

00:34:42   them but now the real that the the real [TS]

00:34:46   difference that is that if that's [TS]

00:34:49   happening among people who really are [TS]

00:34:51   off their asses and doing things [TS]

00:34:53   um is that you know the that that that [TS]

00:34:57   the fundamental liberal project has been [TS]

00:35:02   since the since the fifties but but [TS]

00:35:06   really since the sixties to imagine that [TS]

00:35:10   we are creating a utopia in America and [TS]

00:35:16   there are a lot of people who who don't [TS]

00:35:20   want it or don't get it and we're going [TS]

00:35:23   to help them along by forcing them to [TS]

00:35:28   open their mind that will try education [TS]

00:35:31   you know what will try to educate them [TS]

00:35:33   if it doesn't work we can we get a big [TS]

00:35:35   hammer here [TS]

00:35:35   yeah and and through through a lot of [TS]

00:35:38   like Great Society style like sort of [TS]

00:35:42   big projects like busing and housing [TS]

00:35:47   projects and you know of a legislative [TS]

00:35:52   approach and a social engineering [TS]

00:35:55   approach liberalism said about to create [TS]

00:35:58   a utopia by dragging people along [TS]

00:36:04   kicking and screaming and not not not [TS]

00:36:08   everybody of course but but dragging the [TS]

00:36:10   recalcitrant people along who straps and [TS]

00:36:14   you know there was a moment sometime in [TS]

00:36:19   the seventies and I and I sense this you [TS]

00:36:22   know i said at this moment where [TS]

00:36:24   crackpot conservatism became mainstream [TS]

00:36:31   was there was this there was just this [TS]

00:36:33   this overflow point right around the [TS]

00:36:37   time that that governments were saying [TS]

00:36:42   well you know you can no longer have an [TS]

00:36:46   all-male a smoking club like you and [TS]

00:36:52   your buddies started this club you sit [TS]

00:36:54   around smoking cigars but it is [TS]

00:36:56   discriminatory that your that you have a [TS]

00:37:01   requirement that it be all dude so you [TS]

00:37:03   have to open the doors and well at the [TS]

00:37:07   at the moment where we reach down into [TS]

00:37:11   the culture and started saying in [TS]

00:37:15   general you can no longer you can no [TS]

00:37:19   longer be just some dudes in a in a club [TS]

00:37:24   you have it's against the law now that [TS]

00:37:30   was the that was the personal moment I [TS]

00:37:32   think we're conservatism at became the [TS]

00:37:38   ascendant movement because there are [TS]

00:37:40   just a lot of people in the world who [TS]

00:37:43   instinctively do not want to be told who [TS]

00:37:51   they can hang out with and it isn't a [TS]

00:37:54   that their response wasn't yet coming [TS]

00:37:59   from a place of of racism or sexism it [TS]

00:38:02   was coming from a deeply personal place [TS]

00:38:03   where some suddenly somebody with a [TS]

00:38:06   clipboard somebody like that EPA agent [TS]

00:38:09   in Ghost Busters guy an officious you [TS]

00:38:14   know government employee with a [TS]

00:38:16   clipboard was saying thank man shut it [TS]

00:38:19   down and and people just like the people [TS]

00:38:24   tell the farmers they can't build [TS]

00:38:25   skyscrapers right ma no remember thing [TS]

00:38:29   about land rights and the Holy right [TS]

00:38:30   exactly exactly that's always somebody [TS]

00:38:32   and the thing about the thing about the [TS]

00:38:34   land rights question is it is persuasive [TS]

00:38:37   to me because we are all we are all [TS]

00:38:39   using the same water and the same suit [TS]

00:38:43   and likewise the the the the men's club [TS]

00:38:46   argument is persuasive in the sense that [TS]

00:38:49   we are all using the same water in the [TS]

00:38:50   same sewage but this was the moment [TS]

00:38:53   where where people who already felt like [TS]

00:38:57   the this liberal project was pushing [TS]

00:39:00   them against their will [TS]

00:39:02   you know what their heels dug in pushing [TS]

00:39:04   them toward a world that they couldn't [TS]

00:39:06   see and didn't understand and then it [TS]

00:39:09   became a precipitate got personally it [TS]

00:39:11   came down to their streets exactly where [TS]

00:39:14   it was like wait a minute now I can't [TS]

00:39:16   even now I can't even higher my [TS]

00:39:19   brother-in-law because it's one thing [TS]

00:39:21   for California to come up with a bunch [TS]

00:39:23   of free stuff for mon or whatever but [TS]

00:39:25   now you're you really are literally in [TS]

00:39:26   my backyard [TS]

00:39:27   you're down you're down here like [TS]

00:39:28   telling me how to do my business right [TS]

00:39:31   and from you know from up high [TS]

00:39:34   liberalism said well this is how it has [TS]

00:39:37   to happen we have to go around like that [TS]

00:39:41   scene in Doctor Zhivago where we were [TS]

00:39:45   all of a sudden post-revolution dr. [TS]

00:39:48   Zhivago and his family who used to live [TS]

00:39:49   in a 30 room mansion are now there's a [TS]

00:39:53   knock on the door and there's a woman [TS]

00:39:55   with a clipboard and she is moving other [TS]

00:39:58   dis you know she's moving families into [TS]

00:40:00   their home and increasingly the [TS]

00:40:03   Chicago's are now they're just living on [TS]

00:40:05   one floor their home and pretty soon the [TS]

00:40:07   whole family is living in one room [TS]

00:40:09   curtains off with sheets sounds a lot [TS]

00:40:12   like Warsaw now right yeah well that's [TS]

00:40:16   exactly right and and and the premise is [TS]

00:40:20   like how could you jog owes have been [TS]

00:40:23   living in such luxury while people were [TS]

00:40:25   poor on the street you know people were [TS]

00:40:28   dying in the cold and now everybody's [TS]

00:40:31   living together in a rat's Warren if [TS]

00:40:35   you're holding the collective of [TS]

00:40:36   equality in your old family mansion and [TS]

00:40:39   congratulations now you know we have [TS]

00:40:41   arrived at a at at ya Marxist equality [TS]

00:40:44   which is squalor for koala for all but [TS]

00:40:48   but that you know feeling trying to feel [TS]

00:40:52   sympathy [TS]

00:40:53   it's very hard now to hear somebody [TS]

00:40:56   you from Arkansas or somebody even from [TS]

00:41:00   Seattle who is who has a large dodge [TS]

00:41:06   truck that maybe maybe has some truck [TS]

00:41:10   nuts hanging from the back bumper but [TS]

00:41:14   those are illegal in California new [TS]

00:41:16   clothes they are listening to them you [TS]

00:41:19   know bitch and moan with it with a ton [TS]

00:41:21   of vitriol about how obama is coming to [TS]

00:41:24   force them to to accept medical [TS]

00:41:29   insurance [TS]

00:41:30   it's very hard for the liberal [TS]

00:41:32   sensibilities to not feel like what is [TS]

00:41:34   the matter with you cry babies my god [TS]

00:41:36   like man up but the fact is that they're [TS]

00:41:41   expressing their expressing a discontent [TS]

00:41:44   that's 40 years old that is really a [TS]

00:41:48   discontent with the with the with the [TS]

00:41:50   premise of the whole liberal project [TS]

00:41:52   which is that we are headed toward a [TS]

00:41:55   utopia and you are coming whether you [TS]

00:41:57   like it or not and you something that's [TS]

00:41:58   kind of authentic about that whether I [TS]

00:42:00   agree with it or not there's this basic [TS]

00:42:03   thing that I i said this before but i [TS]

00:42:05   really believe there aren't that many [TS]

00:42:06   people who think they're stupid [TS]

00:42:08   I think most people think other people [TS]

00:42:09   are stupid very few people say you know [TS]

00:42:11   what I'm really stupid and need people [TS]

00:42:14   to massage my understanding of the world [TS]

00:42:16   in such a way that I can be a good [TS]

00:42:17   citizen but the key thing about being [TS]

00:42:20   ignorant is that you are first primarily [TS]

00:42:23   ignorant of how stupid you are that's [TS]

00:42:24   the difference between to me the dancing [TS]

00:42:26   stupidity and ignorance ignorance can be [TS]

00:42:28   cured if if you you know can learn that [TS]

00:42:31   but you you're onto something i think [TS]

00:42:33   which is that people i think this is my [TS]

00:42:36   might be shooting fish in a liberal [TS]

00:42:37   barrel here maybe going to the whole [TS]

00:42:38   foods barrel but you know it's funny to [TS]

00:42:41   me than all of the barrel [TS]

00:42:42   oh it's hard to say no it's amazing to [TS]

00:42:44   me like how many people you know you [TS]

00:42:47   live in pac heights you live in berkeley [TS]

00:42:49   and you're you're very very comfortable [TS]

00:42:52   in your surroundings by and large and [TS]

00:42:55   you're more than happy to institute [TS]

00:42:57   busting your more than happy to [TS]

00:42:58   institute you know I'll whatever public [TS]

00:43:00   housing what you know what we have your [TS]

00:43:01   house for public housing tweet us your [TS]

00:43:03   kid across town is that cool with you [TS]

00:43:05   are you really are you really super into [TS]

00:43:07   that something some people are i have [TS]

00:43:08   really good friends here and [TS]

00:43:10   out that moved here and it's frustrating [TS]

00:43:11   moved here specifically to be part of [TS]

00:43:13   the great San Francisco experiment right [TS]

00:43:15   they use public transit they have a they [TS]

00:43:17   have their kid go to the school that [TS]

00:43:19   like it's a sign to them and that's it's [TS]

00:43:22   difficult sometimes but their values [TS]

00:43:24   around that are to me much more [TS]

00:43:25   authentic than people who are going in [TS]

00:43:28   and you know astroturfing polls on CNN [TS]

00:43:31   and make sure the right side wins [TS]

00:43:33   because i don't think i've set again I [TS]

00:43:36   don't think you care about something [TS]

00:43:37   until you've sacrificed for it and if [TS]

00:43:40   you care that much about all that stuff [TS]

00:43:42   like why don't you put your money where [TS]

00:43:43   your mouth is you put your life where [TS]

00:43:44   your mouth is because it's if you agree [TS]

00:43:48   if you just stipulate for one week that [TS]

00:43:50   you're stupid and you need other people [TS]

00:43:52   to tell you what to do your eyes open to [TS]

00:43:55   how the world operates and you see that [TS]

00:43:57   there's much more to this persuasion of [TS]

00:43:59   utopian or otherwise of trying to get [TS]

00:44:01   somewhere better than telling people [TS]

00:44:03   that they're stupid and need to be [TS]

00:44:04   hammered into complicity or into you [TS]

00:44:06   know submission [TS]

00:44:07   I just wish that you know liberalism is [TS]

00:44:09   very self-reflective in some ways narrow [TS]

00:44:14   corridors but there is not a historic [TS]

00:44:18   self-reflection that applies to what [TS]

00:44:23   we've been doing since world war two and [TS]

00:44:26   if if we were able as a culture to look [TS]

00:44:30   back and say um we tore down all of the [TS]

00:44:36   tenement buildings on the lower east [TS]

00:44:38   side and we built massive brick housing [TS]

00:44:42   projects and we did it because we were [TS]

00:44:48   we were so we're solving all these [TS]

00:44:50   problems hygiene problems we were we [TS]

00:44:53   were solving the the incredible mess the [TS]

00:44:57   unruly mess of downtown New York that [TS]

00:45:01   was full of immigrants and we could and [TS]

00:45:04   nobody you know everybody was just [TS]

00:45:05   waiting through sewage and and there [TS]

00:45:09   were there was a watch shop next to a [TS]

00:45:12   hat shop [TS]

00:45:13   how can this stand we're going to we're [TS]

00:45:15   going to bulldoze it we're gonna pull [TS]

00:45:17   those block after block and we're going [TS]

00:45:18   to build these neat and tidy housing [TS]

00:45:21   projects [TS]

00:45:23   this giant government undertaking and [TS]

00:45:25   we're going to provide a clean and [TS]

00:45:27   secure neighborhood environment for [TS]

00:45:31   people and it's going to uplift the [TS]

00:45:33   people that we can social engineer that [TS]

00:45:36   by design [TS]

00:45:37   yeah and the to look at that [TS]

00:45:41   now you see like oh my god what a [TS]

00:45:45   misguided approach like the [TS]

00:45:48   cabrini-green projects in Chicago became [TS]

00:45:51   the most dangerous place in the universe [TS]

00:45:53   a place where the police [TS]

00:45:56   well I was driving to Chicago one time [TS]

00:45:58   in the in the mid-eighties and I was [TS]

00:46:01   advised by a policeman not to stop at [TS]

00:46:03   red lights and I said message received [TS]

00:46:10   like he's that don't you just don't [TS]

00:46:12   through this part of the city i would [TS]

00:46:15   not i would not wait for the light to [TS]

00:46:16   change you know we had this neat idea [TS]

00:46:18   that we would find a way to take all of [TS]

00:46:21   the desperate people with nothing to [TS]

00:46:23   lose and then stack them up like [TS]

00:46:24   cordwood well and in a place where we we [TS]

00:46:27   did not have we have the mandate to tear [TS]

00:46:29   down the old neighborhood and build this [TS]

00:46:31   but we did not have the mandate to fund [TS]

00:46:33   it right we did not have the mandated to [TS]

00:46:37   to follow through on that which is you [TS]

00:46:40   that you don't just you don't just tear [TS]

00:46:42   down people's neighborhoods and put them [TS]

00:46:43   in high-rises and then automatically [TS]

00:46:45   they have become a philosopher scholars [TS]

00:46:48   like you then also have to have the [TS]

00:46:51   money to make those schools in that [TS]

00:46:54   neighborhood the best schools there are [TS]

00:46:55   and have job training programs and the [TS]

00:46:57   and it does not work if if you you are [TS]

00:47:01   also experiencing a nationwide decline [TS]

00:47:04   in manufacturing and even though you [TS]

00:47:07   can't you can't do that and then also [TS]

00:47:08   closed all the factories and but but but [TS]

00:47:12   we are it is very hard for us to look [TS]

00:47:15   back at that and say that was a liberal [TS]

00:47:18   project with the with the end goal of [TS]

00:47:22   creating a utopia and what it created [TS]

00:47:24   was a blight and it created it created [TS]

00:47:27   in a lot of ways it precipitated the [TS]

00:47:29   death of the inner-city that took [TS]

00:47:32   foresters don't was still trying to [TS]

00:47:34   recover from we're still trying to [TS]

00:47:35   recover from [TS]

00:47:36   that's right [TS]

00:47:36   and you know the story of Detroit is [TS]

00:47:40   that when they were building the [TS]

00:47:42   interstate highway system they slammed [TS]

00:47:44   the interstate right through the heart [TS]

00:47:46   of Detroit's most vibrant black [TS]

00:47:49   neighborhood and they just they just cut [TS]

00:47:52   it in half and and killed it in in one [TS]

00:47:56   fell swoop and it it produced so much [TS]

00:47:59   anger in the city of Detroit in the in [TS]

00:48:01   what was at the time you know a very [TS]

00:48:03   vibrant and alive black community of [TS]

00:48:06   music and art that you know Detroit went [TS]

00:48:11   through 12 40 years where it was [TS]

00:48:13   recreational to go burn down abandoned [TS]

00:48:16   houses like that was something that [TS]

00:48:18   people did on weekends like let's go [TS]

00:48:19   burn some houses because they had lost [TS]

00:48:22   badly they could completely lost their [TS]

00:48:25   feeling that the city belong to them and [TS]

00:48:28   talk about everybody in Detroit you know [TS]

00:48:30   because of this [TS]

00:48:31   what was what was eventually what was [TS]

00:48:33   ultimately i'm not saying the [TS]

00:48:34   interstates worse it were just a liberal [TS]

00:48:36   project they were Eisenhower II and they [TS]

00:48:39   also support industry it would make make [TS]

00:48:42   it easier for people in the suburbs to [TS]

00:48:43   get to their job was it was a big it was [TS]

00:48:46   a big social engineering concept like [TS]

00:48:49   here's what we're going to do that [TS]

00:48:51   instead of being stuck in traffic all [TS]

00:48:53   day when doing your way into this little [TS]

00:48:55   neighborhood where the hat shop is next [TS]

00:48:57   to the watch shop [TS]

00:48:59   we're gonna just tear it all down we're [TS]

00:49:01   going to build a big spaceport out of [TS]

00:49:02   brick everybody's guys need some [TS]

00:49:05   modernity they really do we need to [TS]

00:49:07   bring some Brutalism in here and [TS]

00:49:09   independent is going to improve every [TS]

00:49:11   the quality of everybody's life and [TS]

00:49:13   fifty years from now everybody is going [TS]

00:49:15   to be dancing like in those buck rogers [TS]

00:49:18   television shows in the early eighties [TS]

00:49:20   where people are holding onto that their [TS]

00:49:23   whole holding on to my place your calls [TS]

00:49:26   or something holding onto ribbons and [TS]

00:49:27   pleasure balls and they're dancing [TS]

00:49:28   around to brian eno music and that's [TS]

00:49:32   going to be the future if we just get [TS]

00:49:34   rid of all this all up of if we just get [TS]

00:49:37   rid of the center of the city where [TS]

00:49:39   people who are living as people [TS]

00:49:41   naturally do which is frankly like but [TS]

00:49:45   pigs [TS]

00:49:46   but that's who we are you know so I wish [TS]

00:49:50   that I wish that liberalism had the [TS]

00:49:52   capacity as a as a as a as a [TS]

00:49:55   forward-thinking like ideology to do a [TS]

00:50:01   little bit of backward-looking and say [TS]

00:50:04   we have we have tried to engineer a [TS]

00:50:09   utopia multiple times where education [TS]

00:50:13   and government action enlightened the [TS]

00:50:18   people and expand once it was patiently [TS]

00:50:22   explained to them that equal rights for [TS]

00:50:25   all was was beneficial and economically [TS]

00:50:29   like advantageous everybody got it and [TS]

00:50:33   then we were living in a we were living [TS]

00:50:35   in a future world where all the children [TS]

00:50:38   are Mochaccino colored and we sit around [TS]

00:50:41   on the steps of our pantheon and reed st [TS]

00:50:47   louis plays to one another and that is [TS]

00:50:50   the America that we hoped for and [TS]

00:50:51   inspire to but everybody and and frankly [TS]

00:50:55   a lot of things a lot of things we've [TS]

00:50:57   tried have worked great but but that the [TS]

00:51:00   the resentment that you feel in America [TS]

00:51:03   about big government telling you what to [TS]

00:51:06   do is that there are people that really [TS]

00:51:08   were and and what's amazing is that the [TS]

00:51:12   people that were most affected by the [TS]

00:51:14   liberal bigger big government projects [TS]

00:51:17   they are still Democrats it's the it's [TS]

00:51:21   the people that were kind of on the [TS]

00:51:22   outside looking in and going you know [TS]

00:51:25   the people that got out to the suburbs [TS]

00:51:26   that looked back at the city and said [TS]

00:51:30   you know liberalism is bankrupt and when [TS]

00:51:36   I when I think about it that way I [TS]

00:51:37   haven't I have I still I still have a [TS]

00:51:41   very hard time being yelled at by [TS]

00:51:43   conservatives but I do sympathize with [TS]

00:51:47   their with with some of the evidence [TS]

00:51:52   that they're able to to muster that like [TS]

00:51:55   this this this mentality which is [TS]

00:51:59   we are coming into your homes and we're [TS]

00:52:02   going to explain to you why you're wrong [TS]

00:52:04   and then we're going to deprive you of [TS]

00:52:06   your of what you consider to be your [TS]

00:52:09   rights and it's in service of the [TS]

00:52:13   greater good and you're gonna like it or [TS]

00:52:15   not doesn't matter [TS]

00:52:18   go fuck yourself also god is dead [TS]

00:52:23   whoo free pot for everybody act like PCP [TS]

00:52:28   I see why they're bent out of shape I [TS]

00:52:30   totally do [TS]

00:52:32   I you know it I want to get back to your [TS]

00:52:34   teen out in a minute if we can't but you [TS]

00:52:36   know it reminds me I I think I guess [TS]

00:52:39   somebody from the north in you know the [TS]

00:52:43   literal and figurative sense i don't [TS]

00:52:45   think they really understood a lot about [TS]

00:52:47   the civil war until I met my friend [TS]

00:52:49   Richard and read some Faulkner and I got [TS]

00:52:51   a really different point of view into it [TS]

00:52:54   and I started to really and what's that [TS]

00:52:56   well yeah because we think that we're in [TS]

00:52:59   the north we are top better that [TS]

00:53:01   everybody in the south is like Bo and [TS]

00:53:03   Luke Duke well we'll write and and I [TS]

00:53:06   mean my understanding of it is that part [TS]

00:53:09   of part of what made things so [TS]

00:53:10   complicated in the you know beginning to [TS]

00:53:13   middle part of the 19th century was that [TS]

00:53:16   you know slavery it would be glib to [TS]

00:53:19   call it a MacGuffin but it's certainly [TS]

00:53:21   worth mentioning that it'sit's wasn't [TS]

00:53:23   just slavery it was a matter of telling [TS]

00:53:25   us how to live like whether you like or [TS]

00:53:27   don't like slavery it ends up being [TS]

00:53:29   Jermaine but the deeper issue is we [TS]

00:53:31   didn't I guess it seems like the north [TS]

00:53:34   maybe i don't know i'm not historian but [TS]

00:53:36   it seems to me that they the North [TS]

00:53:37   didn't flicks that except the extent to [TS]

00:53:39   which people in Virginia we're going to [TS]

00:53:41   be put off by us telling these as you [TS]

00:53:44   say these you know people from Scotland [TS]

00:53:46   who are really used to autonomy and and [TS]

00:53:50   and they've got their own mature culture [TS]

00:53:52   we animate we may not like they're [TS]

00:53:53   mature culture and they're doing what [TS]

00:53:55   what I would personally consider awful [TS]

00:53:57   awful things and but at the same time II [TS]

00:54:00   we're going down there in like we're [TS]

00:54:02   really poking the bowl in the i think by [TS]

00:54:05   not acknowledging what we were facing [TS]

00:54:06   from people who thought that their [TS]

00:54:10   culture was fine just the way it is [TS]

00:54:11   thank you very much [TS]

00:54:12   and and we make about slavery because it [TS]

00:54:14   should be about slavery I'm sure glad [TS]

00:54:15   it's gone but at the same time one [TS]

00:54:17   reason that was such a bloody war is [TS]

00:54:18   that they did not feel it in some ways [TS]

00:54:20   it wouldn't matter it was certainly [TS]

00:54:22   bigger their economy but they want [TS]

00:54:23   people telling them how to make their t [TS]

00:54:25   you just don't tell people in the South [TS]

00:54:28   what to do and you know and and I I [TS]

00:54:31   think that's still I think that's still [TS]

00:54:33   true today I mean if we don't and I just [TS]

00:54:35   wanna be clear I'm not saying slavery [TS]

00:54:36   was a great idea but like that's the [TS]

00:54:38   problem we can't have these [TS]

00:54:39   conversations it's a constant production [TS]

00:54:41   of third rails about all the things that [TS]

00:54:44   are off-limits because we've all decided [TS]

00:54:45   that we understand this story and i'm [TS]

00:54:48   just here to say I don't think we always [TS]

00:54:49   understand that story and RR amount of [TS]

00:54:53   certainty about how right we are how [TS]

00:54:55   wrong everybody else is and how much [TS]

00:54:56   they need to be rehabilitated to our [TS]

00:54:58   learning point of view is an affliction [TS]

00:55:01   especially on the on the left and right [TS]

00:55:02   coasts that we really feel like we need [TS]

00:55:04   to salute sweep in and and set these [TS]

00:55:08   folks straight now by Kennedy goes he [TS]

00:55:10   goes to Kentucky any he literally cries [TS]

00:55:12   because he sees what poverty people are [TS]

00:55:15   living in but you know what [TS]

00:55:16   he didn't he didn't go back and then [TS]

00:55:19   post things on facebook he understood [TS]

00:55:21   that welfare is an incredibly complex [TS]

00:55:22   problem to solve and it's going to take [TS]

00:55:24   more than just this one angle to even [TS]

00:55:27   begin to fix this problem and I I admire [TS]

00:55:30   that you know he didn't just sit around [TS]

00:55:31   and he didn't just take photos support [TS]

00:55:33   people and come back and show it to [TS]

00:55:34   everybody in Hyannisport he did [TS]

00:55:36   something about it and but he also [TS]

00:55:37   acknowledged that it was very [TS]

00:55:38   complicated [TS]

00:55:40   yeah he got shot to a really good point [TS]

00:55:42   so you be the the thing about the the [TS]

00:55:45   thing about the Civil War is that you [TS]

00:55:48   know III understanding exactly what [TS]

00:55:50   you're getting at but the but the Civil [TS]

00:55:52   War was was just about slavery [TS]

00:55:55   yeah just the a12 and the other argument [TS]

00:55:58   that it was about anything else is a is [TS]

00:56:00   a kind of like yes that's it's [TS]

00:56:03   everything that they say is true but it [TS]

00:56:05   is a kind of revisionism too because the [TS]

00:56:08   United States was fighting a war about [TS]

00:56:10   slavery for 25 years before the Civil [TS]

00:56:13   War or 450 years before the Civil War [TS]

00:56:16   ultimately yeah you can look back and [TS]

00:56:20   say that was about slavery because that [TS]

00:56:23   was a that was a thing that we were [TS]

00:56:24   going to have to fight a bloody [TS]

00:56:25   pleasantly shot each other about that's [TS]

00:56:28   what that's what we shot each other [TS]

00:56:29   about and that and and and the [TS]

00:56:30   underlying causes which like you're [TS]

00:56:33   saying is this clash of cultures between [TS]

00:56:36   the Cavaliers and the and the the [TS]

00:56:40   Quakers or whatever [TS]

00:56:41   yes that's all true and it's all written [TS]

00:56:43   in it but but at and and maybe you could [TS]

00:56:48   make an argument that all of these [TS]

00:56:50   liberal projects of the 20th century [TS]

00:56:53   have been incremental wars that have [TS]

00:56:58   prevented what could have been a much [TS]

00:57:00   bigger worse war in 1967 it was it was [TS]

00:57:08   plausible to people in 1967 that we were [TS]

00:57:12   headed to a conflict on the scale of the [TS]

00:57:17   civil war in the sense that people were [TS]

00:57:19   really like this and watch riots that is [TS]

00:57:23   exactly like burning cities fighting in [TS]

00:57:26   the streets insurrection that wasn't [TS]

00:57:29   such a scary time for everybody really [TS]

00:57:31   scary and and people you know and and [TS]

00:57:35   and what I will it hadn't happened was [TS]

00:57:37   we hadn't had 40 years of talking about [TS]

00:57:39   it to make it seem to make those ideas [TS]

00:57:42   seem I mean even even the most the the [TS]

00:57:47   biggest conservative zealot is familiar [TS]

00:57:50   with the concept of a sort of every [TS]

00:57:56   liberal totem but at the at the time in [TS]

00:58:00   1967 I mean here there were there were [TS]

00:58:03   great swaths of just normal American [TS]

00:58:05   people that were still wrestling with [TS]

00:58:06   the concept of of conscientious [TS]

00:58:10   objectors like wait a minute what it why [TS]

00:58:13   wouldn't you want to go fight for [TS]

00:58:15   America in a war like they did it wasn't [TS]

00:58:17   even they couldn't get their heads [TS]

00:58:19   around it so so maybe maybe we have been [TS]

00:58:23   fighting these small battles and it has [TS]

00:58:25   released the pressure that would have [TS]

00:58:28   built up [TS]

00:58:29   would be to be a larger conflict the [TS]

00:58:32   civil war was inevitable and there [TS]

00:58:34   wasn't a way they tried they tried for [TS]

00:58:37   the 4 30 years beforehand to legislate [TS]

00:58:40   their way around the problem and and [TS]

00:58:44   concessions were made to the South like [TS]

00:58:48   you wouldn't believe we were I mean the [TS]

00:58:51   people in the north and Congress you [TS]

00:58:53   know they went back and forth just like [TS]

00:58:55   oh I would you like to have thursday [TS]

00:58:58   afternoons reserved for mint juleps when [TS]

00:59:01   we will make that national law if it [TS]

00:59:04   will it if if you will just concede that [TS]

00:59:07   that maybe you know free blacks can go [TS]

00:59:10   across Kansas without being like [TS]

00:59:15   bullwhipped by children so and it's not [TS]

00:59:18   starting with like saying an egg and I [TS]

00:59:20   should watch Lincoln again but it's not [TS]

00:59:22   starting with saying like tomorrow [TS]

00:59:24   your daughter has to marry a negro it [TS]

00:59:26   started with something much more simply [TS]

00:59:28   like can you just be less of a dick [TS]

00:59:29   about this is never get horny lives they [TS]

00:59:32   were I mean they were arguing it in my [TS]

00:59:34   in the Constitutional Congress something [TS]

00:59:36   they were arguing that these questions [TS]

00:59:38   all the way back and the South was just [TS]

00:59:40   well just contemptuous and immobile and [TS]

00:59:44   eventually never sending more kicks it [TS]

00:59:46   was good it was going to be a war you [TS]

00:59:48   know the the the British outlawed [TS]

00:59:50   slavery in 1802 or something so so that [TS]

00:59:55   so that whole like the southern argument [TS]

00:59:57   that the Civil War was really about [TS]

00:59:58   states rights or whatever it is that [TS]

00:59:59   people [TS]

00:59:59   people [TS]

01:00:00   want to say it's about it wasn't it was [TS]

01:00:02   about it was about that this was a thing [TS]

01:00:05   that needed to be resolved and some [TS]

01:00:07   people were just going to have to die [TS]

01:00:08   over it and the reality is looking back [TS]

01:00:13   in at America for the last 50 years in [TS]

01:00:18   1957 I can't imagine standing in that [TS]

01:00:24   place and not maybe picturing that we [TS]

01:00:28   were going to have to have another that [TS]

01:00:30   we're gonna have to have a a war every [TS]

01:00:31   hundred years about this stuff and [TS]

01:00:35   somehow we we fought a terrible cultural [TS]

01:00:39   war but somehow we avoided taking up [TS]

01:00:43   arms and I mean other conspiracy [TS]

01:00:46   theories with theorists would say that [TS]

01:00:47   it was because the CIA started a crack [TS]

01:00:50   epidemic but you know and the FBI [TS]

01:00:54   definitely like worked really hard to [TS]

01:00:57   get the black panthers to fight [TS]

01:01:00   themselves but the reality is we we [TS]

01:01:03   tried a lot of different things to move [TS]

01:01:06   the move the culture forward so we [TS]

01:01:08   didn't have to fight a bruising [TS]

01:01:11   revolution [TS]

01:01:13   I don't know I don't know how we'd [TS]

01:01:15   illegal in the United States not in [TS]

01:01:18   Washington and then California past [TS]

01:01:21   medical marijuana in the nineties he's [TS]

01:01:23   an apple in san francisco or you know [TS]

01:01:27   and in the bay area especially you can [TS]

01:01:28   go out and you just it's just weed [TS]

01:01:29   everywhere here we did but here's the [TS]

01:01:31   funny part so there was you couldn't [TS]

01:01:35   have had died i can i'm not up [TS]

01:01:37   I don't know lots of things but but use [TS]

01:01:39   there's a pretty strong federal law [TS]

01:01:40   against this and you can agree or [TS]

01:01:42   disagree with it but then they can with [TS]

01:01:43   the California Medical Marijuana do this [TS]

01:01:46   they have this great thing years and [TS]

01:01:47   years ago where they attached federal [TS]

01:01:49   highway money to drug policy and if you [TS]

01:01:54   wanted to make something with having to [TS]

01:01:55   be 21 to buy alcohol [TS]

01:01:57   yeah if you wanted to change those laws [TS]

01:01:58   in your state that was fine but you [TS]

01:02:00   would sacrifice all of your federal [TS]

01:02:02   highway money experience turned to shit [TS]

01:02:04   was it was it was incredible it was a [TS]

01:02:06   incredible no state dared cross the [TS]

01:02:09   federal government because they were [TS]

01:02:11   like yeah sure change your policy all [TS]

01:02:13   one but but now the beauty part is that [TS]

01:02:17   they're trying on a local level you go [TS]

01:02:19   to the next level and now on a local [TS]

01:02:20   level people are trying to legislate [TS]

01:02:22   stuff like was owning for things like [TS]

01:02:26   you know we can have a pot dispensary ok [TS]

01:02:30   and now the people are freaking out [TS]

01:02:31   because they say it can be within a half [TS]

01:02:34   a mile obviously keep your hands keep [TS]

01:02:35   your hands your hands off my weed law [TS]

01:02:38   hippie it's like you're ok with the with [TS]

01:02:41   passing these backdoor laws for the [TS]

01:02:43   thing that suits you but like as soon as [TS]

01:02:45   somebody in the neighborhood [TS]

01:02:46   Oh local make it local you can have its [TS]

01:02:48   okay its cool you can have bong city set [TS]

01:02:50   up next to the preschool or whatever [TS]

01:02:51   fine whatever [TS]

01:02:53   but now with somebody else in a sauce [TS]

01:02:54   for the gander now somebody else is [TS]

01:02:56   getting actually you know what let's use [TS]

01:02:57   the law and the law is going to be that [TS]

01:02:58   there's going to be zoning on this and [TS]

01:03:00   you know luckily I think they're pretty [TS]

01:03:01   confused hopefully won't be a huge issue [TS]

01:03:04   yeah I i saw map of like concentric [TS]

01:03:08   circles around all the schools in san [TS]

01:03:10   francisco and if you know if you can't [TS]

01:03:14   build a pot dispensary within 500 yards [TS]

01:03:17   of the school the closest but Spencer [TS]

01:03:19   you could build is somewhere like on the [TS]

01:03:21   road to Sacramento it's also hard on sex [TS]

01:03:23   offenders [TS]

01:03:24   alright and i'm gonna live in opa be no [TS]

01:03:27   I'm peeing outside as you and I enjoy so [TS]

01:03:30   much you get caught it that you might be [TS]

01:03:32   a sex offender you know that sounds like [TS]

01:03:33   a jeff foxworthy bit [TS]

01:03:35   imagine if you know they're not here [TS]

01:03:37   Nate on the side of the house might be a [TS]

01:03:40   sex offender [TS]

01:03:41   many years ago I was that I was peeing [TS]

01:03:43   outside with a friend a genetic park as [TS]

01:03:45   you do and all of a sudden there was a [TS]

01:03:49   cop car there with its spotlight on and [TS]

01:03:51   that spotlighted my friend and for [TS]

01:03:54   whatever reason I'm standing 15 feet [TS]

01:03:58   away which is which is the this so [TS]

01:04:00   socially prescribed distance you stand [TS]

01:04:04   from your friend when you're being [TS]

01:04:05   together in the dark in a park but that [TS]

01:04:08   15 feet away I was somehow out of the [TS]

01:04:10   spotlight aura and the cops are [TS]

01:04:15   spotlighting my buddy and they're like [TS]

01:04:17   hey and he's like oh shit and I'm [TS]

01:04:20   standing right there in the middle of a [TS]

01:04:22   park they don't see me and I finish [TS]

01:04:24   peeing and I zip up my pants [TS]

01:04:27   and I walked around a tree like a head [TS]

01:04:30   around there's a treat next minute walk [TS]

01:04:32   around it and come out from the other [TS]

01:04:33   side and then walk up as these two cops [TS]

01:04:36   are getting out and arresting my friend [TS]

01:04:39   and I'm like hey fellas what's going on [TS]

01:04:42   and my buddy's like hey I made literally [TS]

01:04:45   handcuffed him and put him in the police [TS]

01:04:48   car and drove off into the night is in [TS]

01:04:50   Seattle yeah and I was like oh man shit [TS]

01:04:54   and my friend was like dude you gotta [TS]

01:04:58   help me out here and I left nothing i [TS]

01:05:00   could do we know I wasn't gonna say hey [TS]

01:05:03   I was pissing to and so I stood there [TS]

01:05:07   and he was like you know come bail me [TS]

01:05:08   out and I was like I don't have any [TS]

01:05:09   money [TS]

01:05:10   happy now topics and and he was like [TS]

01:05:14   this are that is civil right he was [TS]

01:05:17   yelling at me faster think I'm just I [TS]

01:05:23   was just going from here to there [TS]

01:05:26   the cops even comes never even looked at [TS]

01:05:28   me anyway what I'm worried about em [TS]

01:05:32   ultimately is I have a house full of [TS]

01:05:36   instruments and I'm worried that that [TS]

01:05:39   does not present enough challenge to my [TS]

01:05:43   daughter is efficient [TS]

01:05:46   that's right so music is all around her [TS]

01:05:48   she is invited to play any instrument at [TS]

01:05:51   any time she isn't going to develop any [TS]

01:05:55   interest in it at all i think about [TS]

01:05:57   hiding them i'm thinking about making [TS]

01:05:59   them all off limits to her you know that [TS]

01:06:00   the famous story about the Jacksons was [TS]

01:06:03   that that Dad Jackson had a guitar and [TS]

01:06:08   he said no one touch my guitar I better [TS]

01:06:12   not see anybody ever touch this guitar [TS]

01:06:15   and then Jermaine or whatever like [TS]

01:06:21   taught himself to play the guitar and [TS]

01:06:22   then little by little all the Jacksons [TS]

01:06:24   learn to play on this guitar and they [TS]

01:06:28   hit they had to hide it from their dad [TS]

01:06:30   and he only discovered it when one day [TS]

01:06:32   they broke a string and they didn't know [TS]

01:06:34   how to [TS]

01:06:34   fix it and he came home and saw that [TS]

01:06:37   they've been playing his guitar and he [TS]

01:06:39   was like what's the story here it comes [TS]

01:06:41   to help that well yeah and I think you [TS]

01:06:43   probably the shit out of it but then [TS]

01:06:44   eventually he discovered like oh shit [TS]

01:06:46   they're all they're all amazing [TS]

01:06:48   musicians [TS]

01:06:50   hey wait a minute i might not have to [TS]

01:06:52   work i should have a keyboard so you [TS]

01:06:55   know so you think that's what he thought [TS]

01:06:57   you think he saw him take it [TS]

01:06:58   yeah but the barrier to entry togo 45 [TS]

01:07:01   net the confined to the trucks ready the [TS]

01:07:05   barrier to entry there has to be one you [TS]

01:07:08   know you there has to be something I [TS]

01:07:10   totally get what you're saying I mean [TS]

01:07:11   yeah exactly there's nothing there's [TS]

01:07:13   nothing to it comes like furniture would [TS]

01:07:15   be like playing the couch right so so [TS]

01:07:19   and that is why so many like hipster [TS]

01:07:21   musicians they you know they raise their [TS]

01:07:26   kids to be to you know to be like group [TS]

01:07:30   stirs and the kids just end up [TS]

01:07:33   yeah i was about to say they end up [TS]

01:07:34   being football players and and [TS]

01:07:36   cheerleaders but really I have no [TS]

01:07:37   evidence that's like seventy two percent [TS]

01:07:39   on 72 cents on the dollar [TS]

01:07:41   it's evidence that that happens it just [TS]

01:07:44   seems like a good thing to say your [TS]

01:07:46   daughter's gonna end up being a [TS]

01:07:47   cheerleader [TS]

01:07:47   you gotta get seventy two percent of the [TS]

01:07:49   guitar give hissing in theaters up there [TS]

01:07:50   you're missing during the the trailer [TS]

01:07:53   movie know how we get hissing it's it's [TS]

01:07:57   a thing here i think some people just do [TS]

01:07:59   it because you know little things like [TS]

01:08:01   when you go to that one tunnel by the [TS]

01:08:03   golden gate bridge Red Hawk so that the [TS]

01:08:05   tone [TS]

01:08:06   yeah yeah i think i think you know that [TS]

01:08:08   the hissing is it really [TS]

01:08:10   it's aight i can't even tell if it's [TS]

01:08:11   ironic anymore no there's no he wouldn't [TS]

01:08:14   in the Northwest you would not make a [TS]

01:08:17   public display like that without really [TS]

01:08:20   upsetting people [TS]

01:08:22   you get into the theater and you you [TS]

01:08:26   identify which which half of the armrest [TS]

01:08:30   is included in your personal space right [TS]

01:08:33   and then you get as quiet as you can so [TS]

01:08:37   you go to for example in your case you [TS]

01:08:38   go to a holocaust movie and people just [TS]

01:08:41   chattering through the whole thing [TS]

01:08:42   because that there is their civil right [TS]

01:08:44   with my braids [TS]

01:08:47   so I need peace in and I'm indoors get [TS]

01:08:51   Civil War discrimination women's rights [TS]

01:08:53   trumpets and allergies and so what was [TS]

01:08:54   the upshot was the upshot of your talk [TS]

01:08:56   that you do you feel like you did you [TS]

01:08:58   did you would be able to make a point we [TS]

01:09:00   have also decided i think so i got to [TS]

01:09:02   the end and I said you know ask me your [TS]

01:09:07   best questions like let's hear it [TS]

01:09:08   because i spent the second half of my [TS]

01:09:11   talk saying what is the what is the end [TS]

01:09:16   goal you there like lady with rickets [TS]

01:09:18   was the end goal of making of of forcing [TS]

01:09:23   the issue of inclusiveness and rock [TS]

01:09:27   music what is I mean I understand rock [TS]

01:09:29   music has for the whole length of its [TS]

01:09:31   life for though for its entire time [TS]

01:09:34   rock music has been a a a radicalizing [TS]

01:09:40   force in the culture right [TS]

01:09:42   rock music says hey we're going to [TS]

01:09:44   integrate rock music says hey we're [TS]

01:09:46   going to move our hips and we're gonna [TS]

01:09:48   show our belly buttons and we're going [TS]

01:09:50   to talk about the war and we're going to [TS]

01:09:52   talk about drugs & rock music has done [TS]

01:09:54   it in advance of the rest of the culture [TS]

01:09:58   it's always been radicalizing but now [TS]

01:10:00   this this new realm in which rock music [TS]

01:10:06   is its own mission field and people are [TS]

01:10:09   turning inward and saying how can we [TS]

01:10:11   make rock [TS]

01:10:13   how can we make the music world more [TS]

01:10:19   representative more inclusive more [TS]

01:10:23   how can we how can we force the music [TS]

01:10:26   world to be you know more diverse and in [TS]

01:10:31   a way more of an institution all those [TS]

01:10:35   all those other people in the business [TS]

01:10:37   and that was the you know that was the [TS]

01:10:40   that was the upshot was just like you [TS]

01:10:43   can't go into the arts and start [TS]

01:10:47   I mean he then then what you get is [TS]

01:10:51   marks the start you get art that is that [TS]

01:10:55   doesn't offend anybody [TS]

01:10:56   and it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't [TS]

01:11:00   offend anybody and it isn't [TS]

01:11:02   representative and people are not making [TS]

01:11:04   art 222 challenge or overturn they're [TS]

01:11:09   making art to satisfy requirements and [TS]

01:11:13   they're making art to a to appease and [TS]

01:11:19   that is that ultimately isn't art its [TS]

01:11:21   design or it's you know it's graphic art [TS]

01:11:28   not to not to piss off any graphic [TS]

01:11:30   artists that are mad morning and you [TS]

01:11:33   throw a straightedge a think that they [TS]

01:11:37   might do an illustration of me that's [TS]

01:11:38   unflattering your ass is big but you're [TS]

01:11:44   seeing Rushmore [TS]

01:11:45   yes I think when in doubt you should do [TS]

01:11:48   her monthly Herman Blues are they [TS]

01:11:50   shoulda blew speech in the chapel [TS]

01:11:52   here's my advice to the rest of you take [TS]

01:11:55   dead aim on the rich boys get them in [TS]

01:11:58   your crosshairs and take them down [TS]

01:12:00   remember you can buy anything but they [TS]

01:12:02   can't buy backbone you can see you could [TS]

01:12:06   go and give her speech anywhere and you [TS]

01:12:08   don't disagree because nobody is there a [TS]

01:12:10   rich boy [TS]

01:12:10   yeah take aim at the rich boy that you [TS]

01:12:12   need a gun for that you [TS]

01:12:14   I mean maybe it's a philosophical [TS]

01:12:15   metaphor gun but step take aim at them [TS]

01:12:18   with with your sarcasm [TS]

01:12:20   that's right i invented sarcasm alright [TS]

01:12:25   well let you go pee [TS]

01:12:26   yeah you anything else no that's it you [TS]

01:12:30   don't have you don't have any kind of a [TS]

01:12:32   solution for this you don't have any [TS]

01:12:33   kind of a tip for somebody what if [TS]

01:12:35   somebody's out there right now John what [TS]

01:12:36   if they're looking for your help you [TS]

01:12:38   certainly created the article itself is [TS]

01:12:40   a foundation the tip is the you know the [TS]

01:12:43   the answer is this is the same as the [TS]

01:12:46   one that you have been propagating which [TS]

01:12:48   is don't look outward at 22 you know to [TS]

01:12:55   a rather change yourself first change [TS]

01:13:00   your immediate family and your your [TS]

01:13:02   small circle of friends second [TS]

01:13:05   and if that doesn't occupy you your [TS]

01:13:07   entire life i will be astonished but but [TS]

01:13:12   change in office to agree on bagels [TS]

01:13:14   good luck if you feel like you have [TS]

01:13:16   completely like change your way of [TS]

01:13:19   living and your and your families and [TS]

01:13:21   your immediate circle of friends way of [TS]

01:13:23   living then write a book about it [TS]

01:13:26   because you would be an example to us [TS]

01:13:28   all [TS]

01:13:28   I don't know that it seems like sympathy [TS]

01:13:32   and empathy for your opponent is is the [TS]

01:13:38   thing that's needed most [TS]

01:13:39   now in them in America at least sympathy [TS]

01:13:42   and empathy for your opponent and a [TS]

01:13:45   genuine desire to see what the what the [TS]

01:13:48   underlying problem is because we are not [TS]

01:13:52   making the world a better place the [TS]

01:13:54   liberal project is in within a lot of [TS]

01:13:59   ways got it is working but i don't but [TS]

01:14:04   nobody nobody likes the feeling i don't [TS]

01:14:07   know it's just so early that we [TS]

01:14:16   shouldn't even post this one is this 7 [TS]

01:14:19   it's it's not fun [TS]