Roderick on the Line

Ep. 62: "Cat Butt Was Real"


00:00:00   hey John I Merlin has gone that's early [TS]

00:00:15   mm you have a busy morning it's not even [TS]

00:00:18   1030 yet [TS]

00:00:19   mm-hmm I'm sorry we're starting earlier [TS]

00:00:24   than usual which by which i mean we [TS]

00:00:26   didn't delay it as much as usual [TS]

00:00:28   yeah well I I feel like there's a little [TS]

00:00:31   bit of mission creep and we're just [TS]

00:00:32   getting earlier and earlier we're going [TS]

00:00:35   to be recording this podcast at seven [TS]

00:00:36   thirty in the morning [TS]

00:00:38   mm I don't wanna hurt the evergreen long [TS]

00:00:42   live nature of our programs i think [TS]

00:00:44   it'll be helping people potentially for [TS]

00:00:46   millennia [TS]

00:00:46   yeah but first of all we always record [TS]

00:00:50   at 10am on Wednesdays and less traveling [TS]

00:00:54   with the the retinue but I think we need [TS]

00:00:57   to officially move to 1035 that helped [TS]

00:01:02   1035 you are you on the west coast right [TS]

00:01:05   now come on the west coast so it feels [TS]

00:01:07   like 7-10 35 on the west coast feels [TS]

00:01:10   like seven it really goes I just reading [TS]

00:01:12   the hunter s thompson used to wake up at [TS]

00:01:13   3pm haha and then he did just so much [TS]

00:01:20   cocaine up it was at to use your phrase [TS]

00:01:23   that I picked up here I think he was [TS]

00:01:24   gacked out on cocaine for a lot of the [TS]

00:01:26   day [TS]

00:01:27   yeah you know I have considered I've [TS]

00:01:31   considered a lot of different speedy [TS]

00:01:33   remedies to my to my problem of not [TS]

00:01:36   wanting to wake up but all the they all [TS]

00:01:39   contribute to my problem of not wanting [TS]

00:01:41   to go to sleep [TS]

00:01:42   halcyon he would have a house key on am [TS]

00:01:44   mmm i wish i could find a healthy on [TS]

00:01:47   this is a term I know you're not a [TS]

00:01:48   technologist but i think this is a term [TS]

00:01:50   you're familiar with time-shifting yeah [TS]

00:01:52   i'm giving your 27 our natural day [TS]

00:01:56   yeah you know this you know how there's [TS]

00:01:58   some places like really squirrely places [TS]

00:02:01   that don't observe the time child right [TS]

00:02:04   yeah like little carries an Arizona or [TS]

00:02:06   something but don't don't make the [TS]

00:02:08   switch [TS]

00:02:08   yeah it just seems to me that given the [TS]

00:02:11   decisions that you made your life your [TS]

00:02:13   career and your natural clock i dont see [TS]

00:02:15   there is no reason that you couldn't [TS]

00:02:17   move toward a 27 [TS]

00:02:19   our day yeah mirana you get the kids [TS]

00:02:23   stuff that stuff [TS]

00:02:24   yeah I gotta go to the bank and stuff [TS]

00:02:26   the the the thing that confuses me is is [TS]

00:02:29   not the is not the the little time [TS]

00:02:31   pockets in the world but there are you [TS]

00:02:33   know I have a pretty good natural [TS]

00:02:34   compass I I can always tell you where [TS]

00:02:37   the where the you-know-what the cardinal [TS]

00:02:40   directions are absolutely you're like [TS]

00:02:41   you're like a bird of prey you've got [TS]

00:02:44   like a non-magnetic your necklace or [TS]

00:02:45   something yeah right but there are a [TS]

00:02:47   couple of places in the world where that [TS]

00:02:51   an inner inner compass is completely [TS]

00:02:54   turned around buy something buy [TS]

00:02:58   something in the ground [TS]

00:02:59   hm the city of Budapest is like this it [TS]

00:03:02   does not matter to me how I arrived in [TS]

00:03:06   Budapest I I feel like it is like the [TS]

00:03:11   city is rotated on the on the space-time [TS]

00:03:16   but not like even like bring 90 degrees [TS]

00:03:18   it might be rotated like 17 degrees like [TS]

00:03:21   just enough to really screw up it's like [TS]

00:03:23   70 degrees when it's right it's rotated [TS]

00:03:27   70 degrees so so i don't thing is i have [TS]

00:03:29   walked to Budapest [TS]

00:03:32   mhm so you're moving mostly east at that [TS]

00:03:35   point I was and so I knew with way [TS]

00:03:39   slowing in here you're still going east [TS]

00:03:41   for a lie [TS]

00:03:41   did I knew and I want and I had been [TS]

00:03:44   there before and experienced this [TS]

00:03:45   problem of like wait a minute what no [TS]

00:03:49   that's impossible [TS]

00:03:50   that can't possibly be North I know it [TS]

00:03:54   in my bones and then it's like no I'm [TS]

00:03:57   afraid it is that is north and I'm so [TS]

00:03:58   I'm i walked into this city and I'm [TS]

00:04:01   thinking this will solve this problem [TS]

00:04:05   for me this has been a problem for years [TS]

00:04:07   yeah yeah we got a point of reference [TS]

00:04:10   yeah now i'm walking in I have real i [TS]

00:04:13   have europe at my back I'm gonna walk [TS]

00:04:15   into the city and I swear to you I [TS]

00:04:17   walked around the corner in it in a city [TS]

00:04:20   street and all of a sudden it was like [TS]

00:04:23   wobbly and I was upside down and [TS]

00:04:27   backwards that list i mean that's like [TS]

00:04:29   when Spiderman liz is spider spider [TS]

00:04:31   senses [TS]

00:04:31   really what it's like and I I'm the [TS]

00:04:33   whole time the things i love the city [TS]

00:04:35   the whole time I'm there I I enjoy it [TS]

00:04:37   very much but there is something there's [TS]

00:04:40   something there's it it's like a scene [TS]

00:04:44   those images of Einstein Ian a fabric of [TS]

00:04:49   space-time where you could be a [TS]

00:04:50   non-euclidean city it's yeah it's like [TS]

00:04:52   it there's a gravity sink there there's [TS]

00:04:55   like a little it's like a it's like the [TS]

00:04:57   whole on a putt-putt golf course and it [TS]

00:04:59   is but there's also a twist and it's [TS]

00:05:02   like it's like somebody it's not like [TS]

00:05:05   somebody put dog poop in a bag and [TS]

00:05:07   twisted it because Budapest is not you [TS]

00:05:08   could not describe it as dog pooping a [TS]

00:05:10   bang [TS]

00:05:10   that is how i feel i feel like you don't [TS]

00:05:13   mind just a bit i got i feel like that [TS]

00:05:15   it isn't the city rhyme poop in that [TS]

00:05:18   analogy the best is the bag again nobody [TS]

00:05:22   blames the bag up there are no bad dogs [TS]

00:05:26   but so so knowing that that exists [TS]

00:05:28   knowing that that place is there and [TS]

00:05:30   knowing that that most people don't [TS]

00:05:32   experience it because most people don't [TS]

00:05:33   have a very accurate inner compass and [TS]

00:05:37   then it causes me to wonder about [TS]

00:05:39   everything then it's like well if that [TS]

00:05:40   if that can be true then what else can [TS]

00:05:44   be true it's so much about this doesn't [TS]

00:05:46   add up and I have to be honest I've my [TS]

00:05:48   file card for Hungary is basically [TS]

00:05:50   goulash and the Gabor sisters right and [TS]

00:05:54   that's pretty much the extent of it [TS]

00:05:56   balitaan oh that all not down with the [TS]

00:06:01   phonetically like I have so many is [TS]

00:06:05   already have so many questions for you I [TS]

00:06:07   Allah that I don't want to get your way [TS]

00:06:08   with this but I in the same census with [TS]

00:06:11   the actually Peter Parker but but in [TS]

00:06:13   that same sense you are made with an [TS]

00:06:15   active mind and it seems to me that for [TS]

00:06:17   the time you're enjoying this city there [TS]

00:06:19   must be some small part of you that [TS]

00:06:21   still wondering what the heck is going [TS]

00:06:23   on and you think it might be the soil [TS]

00:06:26   the pavement [TS]

00:06:27   oh no it's something d it's something [TS]

00:06:29   much deeper than that it's like a [TS]

00:06:31   because I don't know what I I honestly [TS]

00:06:33   don't know why my sense of the cardinal [TS]

00:06:36   directions is so strong but it has saved [TS]

00:06:39   my ass a million times and it doesn't [TS]

00:06:41   seem to be that it's not like I get [TS]

00:06:43   interference [TS]

00:06:44   from microwaves well as far as you know [TS]

00:06:46   as far as i know but it doesn't get the [TS]

00:06:51   Sun do they get the Sun in hungry cuz my [TS]

00:06:53   other centers of my sense of canning is [TS]

00:06:55   is the opposite of years i mean i'm i'm [TS]

00:06:59   lost on market street because there's a [TS]

00:07:01   diagonal they have the Sun there but [TS]

00:07:03   also you know one of the one of the good [TS]

00:07:06   things about Budapest is that one side [TS]

00:07:10   is a hill and one side is flat like [TS]

00:07:12   theres a river that runs down the middle [TS]

00:07:13   of it [TS]

00:07:14   the river runs dude south through the [TS]

00:07:18   town and one-sided is a big hill and one [TS]

00:07:20   side is flat so you've got a [TS]

00:07:22   geographical compass already in place [TS]

00:07:24   yeah so there is there's an awful lot of [TS]

00:07:26   letter there are a lot of physical [TS]

00:07:28   features it's not like it's just a [TS]

00:07:29   rambling a like a mess of a city it's [TS]

00:07:34   incredibly ordered gridded say with life [TS]

00:07:37   features they basically have a sudden [TS]

00:07:40   basically have a sign on one side that [TS]

00:07:41   says this is east this is east town and [TS]

00:07:46   yet I can't get my head around it [TS]

00:07:47   because it doesn't it doesn't square [TS]

00:07:50   with how I because doesn't square with [TS]

00:07:52   my emotional sense of what the [TS]

00:07:53   directions are you go to somewhere like [TS]

00:07:55   London or Boston have been the line i've [TS]

00:07:57   been to London for like five hours but [TS]

00:08:00   but yeah boss is a subtle myself most of [TS]

00:08:03   it I i found a place that had it so good [TS]

00:08:05   i don't smoke the day I found a place to [TS]

00:08:07   have cigars and i went to a station [TS]

00:08:09   yesterday i use the loo you see Bobby [TS]

00:08:12   wasabi he had he had a torch and a lift [TS]

00:08:15   and with or yeah well so shining glory [TS]

00:08:19   listen I've been to London a lot of [TS]

00:08:20   times you saw all the good stuff and [TS]

00:08:23   that an Olympic Stadium doesn't sound [TS]

00:08:25   like really much to look at but I mean [TS]

00:08:26   now it's obviously for me do you get you [TS]

00:08:28   have two problems here well I ever i [TS]

00:08:30   cannot set aside genetics you can never [TS]

00:08:32   I think you're unwise to set aside [TS]

00:08:34   genetics but I was that the times the [TS]

00:08:37   time when I had to acquaint myself with [TS]

00:08:39   directions especially when I started [TS]

00:08:40   driving with Florida where you know [TS]

00:08:43   everywhere I've lived in Florida was [TS]

00:08:44   oriented around in north-south artery [TS]

00:08:48   you know what I mean like the US 19 US [TS]

00:08:51   41 but there's always it and almost [TS]

00:08:54   examine highways right they just go [TS]

00:08:56   north and south florida is just too [TS]

00:08:58   it's just a north-south dongle for he's [TS]

00:09:01   just a dongle that's being I said dongle [TS]

00:09:03   that's adorable huh [TS]

00:09:05   it's a turkey waddle you know I don't [TS]

00:09:10   like to quit the simpsons but but Homer [TS]

00:09:13   everyone prefers to Florida as america's [TS]

00:09:15   wang yeah but no I think that's part of [TS]

00:09:19   it for me is I'm always trying to orient [TS]

00:09:20   myself to like the large body of water [TS]

00:09:22   is over there right to the West in my [TS]

00:09:25   case and so I mean so for me seriously [TS]

00:09:28   somewhere like San Francisco where you [TS]

00:09:31   know as you know market street is is [TS]

00:09:33   actually almost a perfect diagonal and [TS]

00:09:35   then the streets that go around they're [TS]

00:09:37   totally confusing some of the names [TS]

00:09:38   change at market street there's [TS]

00:09:41   intersections where there's like five [TS]

00:09:42   roads coming together and i find that [TS]

00:09:45   but you have no problem with that i mean [TS]

00:09:47   we get anyway the times you've been here [TS]

00:09:49   which i always enjoy we get in your van [TS]

00:09:51   and you have one hundred percent [TS]

00:09:55   confidence that you will get where [TS]

00:09:57   you're going to take you take a step and [TS]

00:09:59   you always know what the next step is [TS]

00:10:00   well X and the thing about San Francisco [TS]

00:10:04   is in that city was laid out by miners [TS]

00:10:08   miners and trappers and i think i think [TS]

00:10:12   what they did is they tied it tighter [TS]

00:10:14   length of string to the belt loop of [TS]

00:10:17   like 50 drunk guys and just send them [TS]

00:10:19   all out from them from it's got this one [TS]

00:10:23   currently go it will call you market but [TS]

00:10:30   uh but but it in something in a city [TS]

00:10:32   like San Francisco I kind of I don't [TS]

00:10:34   know what it is I kind of just look up [TS]

00:10:35   at the sky and nowhere is this is why I [TS]

00:10:37   bring up the sign it was when i [TS]

00:10:38   discovered the sign that my sense of [TS]

00:10:40   direction got so much better because I'm [TS]

00:10:41   good age were you when you discovered [TS]

00:10:43   the Sun i think i discovered the sun at [TS]

00:10:46   a point when I had to discover the son I [TS]

00:10:49   never paid much attention to the Sun and [TS]

00:10:51   then at some point i was informed that [TS]

00:10:53   it generally speaking rises in the east [TS]

00:10:55   and sets in the west and that the only [TS]

00:10:58   two things that I have going for me in [TS]

00:11:01   life literally our number one I almost [TS]

00:11:04   never forget a face [TS]

00:11:05   i I don't know anybody's name I have [TS]

00:11:06   your written down here on a card but but [TS]

00:11:08   that and i have an extraordinary sense [TS]

00:11:11   of what time it [TS]

00:11:11   usually down to no more than five [TS]

00:11:14   minutes and you know that's not because [TS]

00:11:16   the morning edition song came on [TS]

00:11:18   it's like I I know what time it is and [TS]

00:11:20   my wife will see what time is it and I [TS]

00:11:22   will go 678 618 now i'm almost always so [TS]

00:11:28   so let me tell you how that helps once I [TS]

00:11:30   discovered the Sun i was able to know [TS]

00:11:32   that because it is the morning and the [TS]

00:11:34   sun's over there that's kind of it kind [TS]

00:11:37   of eats it just seems to me that you [TS]

00:11:39   would you would just see that you see [TS]

00:11:40   your shadow like like a great roiling [TS]

00:11:43   groundhog and you would know where I I [TS]

00:11:46   don't wanna be labor this but this is a [TS]

00:11:47   product this is the this is the problem [TS]

00:11:49   with living on the earth one of the [TS]

00:11:51   problems living in there like for [TS]

00:11:53   instance if you're in Malibu California [TS]

00:11:55   fly your you are conscious of the fact [TS]

00:11:59   that the pacific ocean is it is to your [TS]

00:12:02   West and America's to your East because [TS]

00:12:04   you are on the pacific ocean right [TS]

00:12:06   that's how we think of the world I could [TS]

00:12:07   see it from my house but I Mallory days [TS]

00:12:09   a year [TS]

00:12:10   Malibu's in this weird little uh it's [TS]

00:12:14   just weird little beard it's like it's [TS]

00:12:16   like a little beard on california for [TS]

00:12:19   his b crickets where we're not there was [TS]

00:12:23   less Hollywood the ocean is no longer to [TS]

00:12:26   the west of malibu the ocean is to the [TS]

00:12:28   south of malibu malibu points south and [TS]

00:12:31   east that's completely unacceptable [TS]

00:12:34   so when you're in Malibu and the sun [TS]

00:12:36   comes up you think oh my god the this [TS]

00:12:41   the Sun is rising in the north or what I [TS]

00:12:44   mean you cannot you cannot reckon with [TS]

00:12:47   it because you eat your mind is so used [TS]

00:12:50   to thinking of the Pacific Ocean always [TS]

00:12:51   to the west always to the west right but [TS]

00:12:53   really when you stand in Malibu and look [TS]

00:12:55   out at the ocean you're looking south [TS]

00:12:57   looking toward the Galapagos that's what [TS]

00:13:01   I get the Turtles tortoises that's where [TS]

00:13:04   that's where the tourists come from so [TS]

00:13:05   it's so it's so this and this is that [TS]

00:13:07   this is true portland oregon tui if you [TS]

00:13:09   get accustomed to thinking that the [TS]

00:13:11   river in portland oregon runs east-west [TS]

00:13:14   and then you realize that runs [TS]

00:13:16   north-south can't really screw up [TS]

00:13:19   yeah why would you think that because [TS]

00:13:21   because the first time you're in [TS]

00:13:23   portland you get really baked yeah [TS]

00:13:25   totally did [TS]

00:13:26   yeah and now i'm given to believe that [TS]

00:13:29   Portland is it's very flat no one's [TS]

00:13:36   another city like Budapest there's Hills [TS]

00:13:38   on one side and flat on the other hand a [TS]

00:13:40   river in the middle locally-sourced me [TS]

00:13:41   to the north to the north of Portland [TS]

00:13:45   afternoon I know where this food trucks [TS]

00:13:47   are like this food trucks [TS]

00:13:48   yeah portland i just spent oh it's just [TS]

00:13:51   been a week on the Oregon coast [TS]

00:13:53   y-yeah I i went down to the oregon coast [TS]

00:13:56   and rented a house what and i sat in the [TS]

00:14:00   house and heard nothing about this [TS]

00:14:02   well this is the thing I keep keep my [TS]

00:14:05   keep my travels [TS]

00:14:07   the thing about the thing about ok [TS]

00:14:09   announcing to the world that you're on [TS]

00:14:10   the Oregon coast is people can find you [TS]

00:14:12   there they can they can they can explore [TS]

00:14:15   your home so even i mean there are [TS]

00:14:17   certain kinds of information that you [TS]

00:14:19   are comfortable releasing retro actively [TS]

00:14:22   but your movements your movements in in [TS]

00:14:24   a contemporary sense need to be [TS]

00:14:26   something that's a need-to-know basis [TS]

00:14:27   that's right that's that and [TS]

00:14:29   particularly when I'm going somewhere [TS]

00:14:31   for to experience a kind of like lonely [TS]

00:14:35   Beach solitude [TS]

00:14:37   mm I don't want that interview no I [TS]

00:14:39   don't want somebody like a DJ offer [TS]

00:14:41   proof fuck time up 13 she wear trousers [TS]

00:14:44   rolled I did but when walking I'm [TS]

00:14:48   walking down the key to teach I didn't [TS]

00:14:51   have each you know yet you encounter [TS]

00:14:53   people who are you are out on the beach [TS]

00:14:55   in the in the dawn light and sometimes [TS]

00:14:58   they have to read dogs sometimes i black [TS]

00:15:02   dog and then you want to meet those [TS]

00:15:05   people on even footing beach footing you [TS]

00:15:09   don't want to be out there and somebody [TS]

00:15:10   with two red dogs goes super train em [TS]

00:15:14   and that if I told people I was out [TS]

00:15:17   there [TS]

00:15:17   yeah butBut so I go to the oregon coast [TS]

00:15:20   and my expectation is it's the middle of [TS]

00:15:24   January it's going to be a constant [TS]

00:15:27   like shitty was dark cold wind swept [TS]

00:15:35   rainy week where I'm gonna sit in this [TS]

00:15:38   little shingled house and I'm going to [TS]

00:15:41   shiver and stoke the fire and have lots [TS]

00:15:45   of deep thoughts and steam and I'm gonna [TS]

00:15:48   steam and instead I get down there and [TS]

00:15:50   it's the sunniest week on record and [TS]

00:15:52   it's just beautiful every day [TS]

00:15:54   Wow and I mean cold it's january but [TS]

00:15:57   it's it's just beautiful sounds bracing [TS]

00:15:59   it was it was great and you don't have [TS]

00:16:01   so every day I go and I i start i say [TS]

00:16:03   i'm going to take a quick walk on the [TS]

00:16:04   beach and then I go and I walk for three [TS]

00:16:07   and a half hours up and down the beach [TS]

00:16:09   and I did not have as many deep thoughts [TS]

00:16:16   but one of the one of the one of the [TS]

00:16:19   takeaways was that the oregon coast for [TS]

00:16:23   me is one of these places that I believe [TS]

00:16:25   everyone in the world should everyone in [TS]

00:16:29   the world it's not that everyone in the [TS]

00:16:30   world should experience it but that [TS]

00:16:32   everyone in the world should have access [TS]

00:16:33   to it it's such a perfect place that I [TS]

00:16:38   almost can't believe that that it isn't [TS]

00:16:42   part of everyone's lands everyone's [TS]

00:16:44   mental landscape because you know though [TS]

00:16:46   the the state of Oregon the law there is [TS]

00:16:50   that there is no private beach all [TS]

00:16:52   beaches are public so you can walk from [TS]

00:16:56   the top of Oregon to the bottom if you [TS]

00:16:58   can forward the rivers and and the beach [TS]

00:17:04   is just what at the beaches are really [TS]

00:17:06   shallow so when the tide goes out you [TS]

00:17:08   can walk out onto the mudflats seemingly [TS]

00:17:12   forever [TS]

00:17:13   I don't know it's just a it's just it's [TS]

00:17:15   a it's a place that's always in my [TS]

00:17:17   imagination and we used to go there is [TS]

00:17:19   when I was a kid so [TS]

00:17:21   so I just got back from there some a [TS]

00:17:23   little dream a little like spaced out [TS]

00:17:25   I'm him and it doesn't the things it [TS]

00:17:30   doesn't like Portland somehow but the [TS]

00:17:33   back in the old days portland and the [TS]

00:17:36   oregon coast were kind of a symbiotic [TS]

00:17:38   was like the people on the Oregon coast [TS]

00:17:40   were largely from Portland and Portland [TS]

00:17:42   was this little logging town and it just [TS]

00:17:45   all felt like a kind of a weird I 11 but [TS]

00:17:49   now portland is throbbing with this food [TS]

00:17:52   truck energy and people with the you [TS]

00:17:55   know with sink stoppers in their ears [TS]

00:17:57   and and the oregon coast is still [TS]

00:18:00   eternal it's it's just it doesn't feel [TS]

00:18:02   like it's changed at all [TS]

00:18:04   so the two things now the feels like [TS]

00:18:06   there's a disconnect between Portland [TS]

00:18:08   and that and the beach but you you [TS]

00:18:11   stayed mostly close to the shingles [TS]

00:18:13   yeah there's a little house that's [TS]

00:18:16   that's basically in the sand dunes [TS]

00:18:18   that's I mean you as a slingshot from [TS]

00:18:21   the water and I camp out there and you [TS]

00:18:27   are i mean in as much as you can say we [TS]

00:18:30   can cut this out but as much as you can [TS]

00:18:31   say you were you are ready for a [TS]

00:18:34   sabbatical I guess a week ago all it [TS]

00:18:38   took to just go away and and you're [TS]

00:18:40   thinking this is going to be a place to [TS]

00:18:42   get a change of scenery and you you put [TS]

00:18:44   aside the worries of the day and and the [TS]

00:18:47   deep thoughts can flow like the shallot [TS]

00:18:49   I'd that was your thinking going into it [TS]

00:18:51   yeah but I know that you're you know [TS]

00:18:55   that you have a lot of feelings on these [TS]

00:18:56   topics about like the deep thoughts and [TS]

00:18:59   how they flow and I'm i'm beginning to [TS]

00:19:02   end beginning to question whether there [TS]

00:19:06   is any retreat that causes the deep [TS]

00:19:09   thoughts to flow or whether the you know [TS]

00:19:13   I Merlin I keep looking for the secret [TS]

00:19:15   key that is going to unlock [TS]

00:19:19   the to unlock my work and it's going to [TS]

00:19:26   make me want to make the kinds of things [TS]

00:19:31   that I think I should be making and this [TS]

00:19:33   is a weird thing because I make things [TS]

00:19:35   all the time but i have so i have i have [TS]

00:19:37   a list of things i think i should be [TS]

00:19:39   making right and I can't I couldn't be [TS]

00:19:41   less interested in most of the time in [TS]

00:19:43   making those things and so I keep [TS]

00:19:45   thinking I'm gonna find this key it's [TS]

00:19:47   going to unlock the box where the these [TS]

00:19:50   things that I think I should be making [TS]

00:19:51   our and they're going to pour out of me [TS]

00:19:53   like they used to like when I was young [TS]

00:19:55   and I didn't think I should be making [TS]

00:19:58   those things I just did them and i'm [TS]

00:20:01   gonna read I'm gonna find that again and [TS]

00:20:02   so like I every time i go on tour every [TS]

00:20:05   time I have a a an interesting moment or [TS]

00:20:10   a fun night i come back and i sit down [TS]

00:20:13   in my chair and I go I'm not I'm fired [TS]

00:20:16   up [TS]

00:20:16   I'm gonna do this stuff that i really [TS]

00:20:18   think i ought to do and then you I just [TS]

00:20:23   I just don't put kind of life drive [TS]

00:20:29   trains out of me so I went to the oregon [TS]

00:20:31   coast thinking I was gonna it's gonna [TS]

00:20:33   talk to God in the form of the rhythm of [TS]

00:20:37   his waves and you know i love the waves [TS]

00:20:42   i stared out Adam maybe even talk to God [TS]

00:20:44   a little bit but it'sit's that like I [TS]

00:20:46   came back in and ported poured into [TS]

00:20:51   anything actually well that's not true i [TS]

00:20:52   wrote a long article about how punk-rock [TS]

00:20:54   sucks but that's nobody wants that and [TS]

00:20:58   that would come out anyway [TS]

00:20:59   nobody's that would have everything is [TS]

00:21:01   nobody's interested in it that's about [TS]

00:21:03   what about hard to open jars something [TS]

00:21:05   will be addressing hard to open jars i [TS]

00:21:08   don't find any way hard candy so costly [TS]

00:21:10   now I don't find the funds that I don't [TS]

00:21:15   find the jars hard to open a hug I don't [TS]

00:21:17   get invited 10 people by trousers that [TS]

00:21:20   fit with what is that you have to be so [TS]

00:21:24   laughs when I say box i don't mean punk [TS]

00:21:26   rock music [TS]

00:21:28   I mean I mean punk rock well now this [TS]

00:21:31   heals a rift okay thank you [TS]

00:21:33   ya know punk rock music you know my my [TS]

00:21:36   contention about punk rock music is it's [TS]

00:21:38   not a thing that they like it really [TS]

00:21:41   never was a thing [TS]

00:21:42   yeah good good punk rock music is just [TS]

00:21:44   good rock music that's true and listen [TS]

00:21:48   listen if you listen to the clash or the [TS]

00:21:50   ramones or like any good band [TS]

00:21:54   yeah if you listen you listen to what [TS]

00:21:56   you know like axe or wire us into those [TS]

00:22:00   bands you go these are just or talking [TS]

00:22:02   heads you just listen it's like this is [TS]

00:22:03   a fresh take [TS]

00:22:05   following a bloated area bloated era [TS]

00:22:07   bloated era that I happen to really like [TS]

00:22:09   but it was there is certainly but [TS]

00:22:13   they're on a continuum from the kinks [TS]

00:22:15   well on a continuum from eddie cochran [TS]

00:22:17   right so there is no punk rock [TS]

00:22:19   ok it's just rock and the stuff that [TS]

00:22:22   that that the best of the could [TS]

00:22:23   legitimately called punk rock which is [TS]

00:22:25   like self-conscious art music where it's [TS]

00:22:29   like Yoko Ono screaming over some [TS]

00:22:32   intentionally out-of-tune [TS]

00:22:33   instrumentation and you know that's just [TS]

00:22:36   that's that's neither pump more rockets [TS]

00:22:39   just garbage so I'm pregnant [TS]

00:22:42   punk rock music is just rock music punk [TS]

00:22:47   rock as a philosophy is the thing that I [TS]

00:22:50   think is bullshit [TS]

00:22:51   even in 1976 when the garbage is piling [TS]

00:22:56   up on the streets and there's no jobs no [TS]

00:23:00   is a really good is a really good [TS]

00:23:02   documentary on joy division i I've seen [TS]

00:23:05   alex cox movie about you know seditious [TS]

00:23:09   and stuff like that yeah you know it's a [TS]

00:23:11   little you know ultimately how [TS]

00:23:13   geographica nightmarish but but i saw [TS]

00:23:15   this really cool documentary on joy [TS]

00:23:17   division i thought was Michael [TS]

00:23:19   Winterbottom maybe and heated the [TS]

00:23:21   fiction film anyhow I real Warner bottom [TS]

00:23:24   yet Michael Winterbottom from the water [TS]

00:23:25   bottom brothers but now but but what I [TS]

00:23:29   got from showing this kind of archival [TS]

00:23:30   footage of what it was like to live in [TS]

00:23:32   manchester in 1976 [TS]

00:23:34   I mean it was so blighted and everybody [TS]

00:23:37   was living in where they called council [TS]

00:23:39   flats plastic just these awful the [TS]

00:23:42   looks like something stolen we come up [TS]

00:23:43   with a name and a bad night and there [TS]

00:23:45   was a time when I don't know why this [TS]

00:23:47   one really struck in my stuck in my mind [TS]

00:23:49   but I guess there's a strike as you do [TS]

00:23:52   in England and the garbage piled up on [TS]

00:23:55   the streets for I guess weeks [TS]

00:23:57   yeah and it was it was blighted it was [TS]

00:24:00   really blighted in you know you listen [TS]

00:24:02   to i don't know how i feel about the sex [TS]

00:24:04   pistols I you know I think they're quite [TS]

00:24:05   as good as people say they are but I [TS]

00:24:07   mean no future in the future I mean it's [TS]

00:24:09   just these are the best lump [TS]

00:24:11   mm you think they're better than X yes [TS]

00:24:16   okay but the thing is that better is [TS]

00:24:21   that was the only goes an atom and [TS]

00:24:22   animus alongside things like oh my god [TS]

00:24:25   Genesis and queen this is the worst [TS]

00:24:27   which I disagree with you don't think [TS]

00:24:29   that was an animus but the the blight of [TS]

00:24:31   northern England also produced black [TS]

00:24:34   sabbath which is one of the great one of [TS]

00:24:38   the great rock experiences a question [TS]

00:24:40   the thing about punk rock philosophy the [TS]

00:24:43   reason that I think it is bullshit and [TS]

00:24:46   and I say that even acknowledging that [TS]

00:24:49   punk rock as a like as a corner of youth [TS]

00:24:54   culture was very important to people i [TS]

00:24:57   have a lot of friends who claim that [TS]

00:25:00   punk rock the culture saved their lives [TS]

00:25:04   and it was the family that they didn't [TS]

00:25:06   have and it was and it was a place where [TS]

00:25:09   they were all there maybe they felt like [TS]

00:25:12   they fit in for once [TS]

00:25:13   well yeah and and I a man that thing is [TS]

00:25:16   that you could people say that same [TS]

00:25:18   thing about Scientology you know it's a [TS]

00:25:20   place where your fashion questions your [TS]

00:25:23   music questions your political questions [TS]

00:25:25   and your social questions are all [TS]

00:25:26   answered in one place [TS]

00:25:28   oh its stock triangle and your it [TS]

00:25:30   absolutely is nur 14 years old and so [TS]

00:25:33   you walk into this you walk into this [TS]

00:25:35   meeting hall and you're like oh my god I [TS]

00:25:38   finally i'm home and i understand that [TS]

00:25:41   that is that has a powerful emotional [TS]

00:25:43   effect on people and even though a lot [TS]

00:25:45   of these people now are 45 and 50 years [TS]

00:25:47   old [TS]

00:25:48   they cannot they cannot look at punk [TS]

00:25:52   rock with it with a clear I but the [TS]

00:25:56   reality is that punk rock as a [TS]

00:25:58   philosophy as us as a social philosophy [TS]

00:26:01   is it is intrinsically negative it is [TS]

00:26:05   and tie reactionary and it is reaction [TS]

00:26:09   exactly and then anyway fascist but but [TS]

00:26:14   it does not have it is not pro anything [TS]

00:26:19   it is anti-everything it lets you know [TS]

00:26:23   what it is supposed to it never really [TS]

00:26:26   stipulates what it's for [TS]

00:26:27   it's like a fourteen-year-old boy island [TS]

00:26:29   is what hates all he knows what hates [TS]

00:26:31   and then and that has and that has four [TS]

00:26:34   certainly you're in my generation that [TS]

00:26:36   mentality we because punk rock was also [TS]

00:26:41   cool because that was because you know [TS]

00:26:43   that was where a lot of the that was the [TS]

00:26:46   genesis point of a lot of the stuff that [TS]

00:26:48   we liked and particularly and like I [TS]

00:26:52   mean anytime you're you're in a sort of [TS]

00:26:54   a mind-control posture if you can attach [TS]

00:26:57   it to a good rock music you got half the [TS]

00:27:00   people right there where they don't even [TS]

00:27:01   have to think about what it's about [TS]

00:27:03   that's why that's why christians are so [TS]

00:27:07   interested in making rock music now you [TS]

00:27:09   know it's a great way to get inside of [TS]

00:27:11   people's heads and get them before [TS]

00:27:14   they're really thinking critically so [TS]

00:27:16   all through the eighties and nineties we [TS]

00:27:21   has a generation internalised this punk [TS]

00:27:26   rock critical eye which was which all it [TS]

00:27:31   could say was that sucks that sucks that [TS]

00:27:33   sucks that sucks it at it never espoused [TS]

00:27:38   like its own concept of beauty and so I [TS]

00:27:45   think personally I know what they did [TS]

00:27:48   want really punk rock songs right there [TS]

00:27:50   is anything when like when yr on yr [TS]

00:27:52   things outdoor minor which is a gorgeous [TS]

00:27:54   based on almost a ballad or or when you [TS]

00:27:58   know I mean how different is [TS]

00:28:01   you know something from london calling [TS]

00:28:04   from almost every spring because I don't [TS]

00:28:06   start things but from from like a [TS]

00:28:07   restoring like proto power anthem almost [TS]

00:28:12   well now Green Day is basically his pet [TS]

00:28:17   is basically making music like ELO like [TS]

00:28:20   the Buzzcocks with press releases its [TS]

00:28:22   come all the way it's come full circle [TS]

00:28:25   but but again leaving the music side and [TS]

00:28:28   just talking about the talking about [TS]

00:28:30   punk rock as us as a social phenomenon [TS]

00:28:33   of fashion movement a way of criticizing [TS]

00:28:36   culture which you know which it deeply [TS]

00:28:39   profoundly is punk rock draws a line on [TS]

00:28:42   everything is it punk or is it not in [TS]

00:28:45   and you know and that's where that's [TS]

00:28:47   where indie-rock got the concept that [TS]

00:28:50   selling out was the ugliest thing you [TS]

00:28:51   could do you know that whole business of [TS]

00:28:54   can't like what with Johnny Rotten think [TS]

00:28:56   of this decision [TS]

00:28:57   exactly and death cab for cutie we're [TS]

00:28:59   asking themselves that question what [TS]

00:29:00   would Johnny Rotten think I mean through [TS]

00:29:02   through the through of three different [TS]

00:29:04   filters i mean they weren't actually [TS]

00:29:05   thinking about trying rotten but but you [TS]

00:29:08   know a sunny day real estate wouldn't do [TS]

00:29:12   interviews right on their first record [TS]

00:29:14   builders belen Sebastian wouldn't be [TS]

00:29:17   photographed unless every single person [TS]

00:29:19   like nine people in the band were all in [TS]

00:29:21   the photo right and Eddie Vetter drove [TS]

00:29:23   across America you know uninsulated ford [TS]

00:29:26   van while his bandmates flew from show [TS]

00:29:29   to show in their own private 747 keeping [TS]

00:29:34   her because he was keeping it real [TS]

00:29:36   via mike watt via John Iran be you know [TS]

00:29:39   and so we all have been carrying this [TS]

00:29:43   around in us everybody our generation [TS]

00:29:45   and I think everybody from 30 to 50 this [TS]

00:29:49   idea everything every time we make [TS]

00:29:50   something we look at it and go punk or [TS]

00:29:53   not [TS]

00:29:54   Oh God not punk enough garbage can I'm [TS]

00:29:57   comin around comin around okay so you [TS]

00:30:00   know so anyway so ultimately I feel like [TS]

00:30:02   what [TS]

00:30:02   and the reason I'm saying this now is [TS]

00:30:04   that I look at the look at the [TS]

00:30:05   generation that is finally throwing this [TS]

00:30:08   in the garbage which is this this newest [TS]

00:30:10   generation 20 to 25 year-olds who are [TS]

00:30:14   making stuff [TS]

00:30:14   now and they you know I think they look [TS]

00:30:18   at their cultural patrimony and they see [TS]

00:30:21   a bunch of like whiny millionaires and [TS]

00:30:25   they see the last the last vestiges of [TS]

00:30:29   that kind of pitchfork II like a sellout [TS]

00:30:33   is rights that this is hack the my kids [TS]

00:30:38   that are 22 or like you know it just [TS]

00:30:41   seems like that's how old people put the [TS]

00:30:44   end up the end up starting if you [TS]

00:30:45   allowed to happen yourself and it [TS]

00:30:46   certainly happened to me is you end up [TS]

00:30:48   starting whatever you call career with a [TS]

00:30:50   certain amount of cultural baggage right [TS]

00:30:53   about what the previous generation would [TS]

00:30:54   think which is not so different from [TS]

00:30:55   going to eatin right exactly absolutely [TS]

00:30:58   and the the kids now I think are just [TS]

00:31:00   like fuck it right and they they they [TS]

00:31:03   take the they take a little bit of the [TS]

00:31:06   sneer but none of the self criticism and [TS]

00:31:09   they just want to dance and they're just [TS]

00:31:11   being kids again and they seem like a [TS]

00:31:13   much more [TS]

00:31:15   oh my god and praise be to God that they [TS]

00:31:18   are making culture much more [TS]

00:31:21   lightheartedly and right you know you [TS]

00:31:23   look at Lena denim or done Homer over [TS]

00:31:26   that girl is that's making girls and and [TS]

00:31:29   their this generation is there just as [TS]

00:31:33   smart as we ever were but they are [TS]

00:31:35   having a they're having a little bit [TS]

00:31:38   more fun because they aren't when she is [TS]

00:31:41   doing something more profound and more [TS]

00:31:43   likely to endure in some ways yeah [TS]

00:31:46   because they're not because they aren't [TS]

00:31:48   self-censoring based on up like a [TS]

00:31:51   fundamental principle that if you are [TS]

00:31:54   not approaching the world with [TS]

00:31:55   negativity then you are part of the ear [TS]

00:31:59   part of the capitalists oh you know [TS]

00:32:02   larki right you've got me you got me [TS]

00:32:05   thinking about this and there's certain [TS]

00:32:06   exhibit [TS]

00:32:07   ok so I mean I personally never have [TS]

00:32:11   thought the germs were all that great [TS]

00:32:13   they kind of phoned it in think about [TS]

00:32:16   what's enduring about like Agent Orange [TS]

00:32:19   mm I mean that's so many armies now [TS]

00:32:22   it'sit's that what is that that's that's [TS]

00:32:24   like the the ventures with spit right [TS]

00:32:26   right [TS]

00:32:27   haha but here's what's interviewing [TS]

00:32:30   wondering about it i mean we take away [TS]

00:32:32   sure you i mean i think there's [TS]

00:32:33   something to be taken away from the [TS]

00:32:34   color stuff to think about this think [TS]

00:32:35   about how much of of the enduring legacy [TS]

00:32:40   that made bands like your previous bands [TS]

00:32:42   you know it's you might have inspired [TS]

00:32:45   you think about you know a lot of it [TS]

00:32:47   some of it is cultural I mean you're [TS]

00:32:48   never you're very unlikely in context to [TS]

00:32:51   ever get weirder than screamin jay [TS]

00:32:53   hawkins hawkins nobody's ever going to [TS]

00:32:55   be that weird just given like what he [TS]

00:32:58   was alongside in those days [TS]

00:33:01   absolutely but think about this think [TS]

00:33:02   about the the real and again I'm [TS]

00:33:05   certainly guilty of the have geography [TS]

00:33:06   here for every one of these but number [TS]

00:33:08   one I don't think people really [TS]

00:33:11   understand what independent music meant [TS]

00:33:15   in the mid to late seventies because the [TS]

00:33:17   Buzzcocks very few people have been as [TS]

00:33:19   independent as the Buzzcocks they like [TS]

00:33:21   practically press the records they made [TS]

00:33:23   their own covers like they almost [TS]

00:33:25   single-handedly invented independent [TS]

00:33:28   music what is that [TS]

00:33:29   well that ends up being a business [TS]

00:33:30   decision because there was not there is [TS]

00:33:33   not a forum or maybe a former for [TS]

00:33:35   promoting them but there weren't that [TS]

00:33:36   many people out there who are going to [TS]

00:33:38   invest in them and they really did [TS]

00:33:39   literally do it themselves like say what [TS]

00:33:41   you will about the emek I it but the [TS]

00:33:43   thing is we remember we remember discord [TS]

00:33:45   for their like we won't play a show the [TS]

00:33:48   cost more than seven dollars will ever [TS]

00:33:49   again what they did was a business [TS]

00:33:51   decision they created a sustainable [TS]

00:33:53   business by being lean and by and by [TS]

00:33:56   supporting artists that they really [TS]

00:33:58   believed in and they all we all live in [TS]

00:34:01   the in the aftermath of that like they [TS]

00:34:04   created that and we met and that is why [TS]

00:34:06   I don't that's why there's a bar sook [TS]

00:34:08   that's where there's a bar soap that's [TS]

00:34:09   absolutely smitten and the final and [TS]

00:34:11   again this is going to be the most [TS]

00:34:12   hydrographic I'm ready get can be wrong [TS]

00:34:14   about this but you know I think this is [TS]

00:34:16   in some ways extremely true which is the [TS]

00:34:18   SST bands including especially people [TS]

00:34:20   like black flag they worked really hard [TS]

00:34:23   and only autos hard as Rollins makes it [TS]

00:34:26   sound yeah I don't mean at the same time [TS]

00:34:28   I mean I'd I only saw the Minutemen once [TS]

00:34:31   and I saw the band after that a couple [TS]

00:34:34   times but I mean I really believe that [TS]

00:34:36   my quad is it is a pretty hard-working [TS]

00:34:37   guy but the thing is they got in a van [TS]

00:34:39   and they drove [TS]

00:34:40   because of the community that they could [TS]

00:34:42   develop they were able to blaze a trail [TS]

00:34:45   that people are still driving their van [TS]

00:34:46   down till this day but what game what is [TS]

00:34:48   that it's business and its work all the [TS]

00:34:51   enduring things in all this where people [TS]

00:34:52   who actually decided to be dedicated to [TS]

00:34:54   doing the work which is not nearly the [TS]

00:34:56   same thing as starting out going like I [TS]

00:34:58   want you know I want safety pins in my [TS]

00:35:01   jacket or whatever ya want to work but [TS]

00:35:04   and then that that's absolutely true and [TS]

00:35:07   it is the it is the lack of ability to [TS]

00:35:11   acknowledge that it is a business [TS]

00:35:13   decision that all of those groups that [TS]

00:35:15   you just mentioned I mean all of those [TS]

00:35:17   innovations really you could write up an [TS]

00:35:22   article for Fast Company about each one [TS]

00:35:24   of those characters like a startup that [TS]

00:35:26   works there let's start up the works but [TS]

00:35:28   the but it like threaded through the [TS]

00:35:34   philosophy of each one of those [TS]

00:35:35   organizations was a rejection and denial [TS]

00:35:40   that business was a was what they were [TS]

00:35:42   doing this is at least not big business [TS]

00:35:45   right [TS]

00:35:45   they want they wanted to have enough to [TS]

00:35:47   put gas in the van but that's the thing [TS]

00:35:49   they were not proud of it and that if [TS]

00:35:51   you read that Rollins book for he's [TS]

00:35:53   talking about he's talking about being [TS]

00:35:56   on tour [TS]

00:35:57   there's this cognitive disconnect [TS]

00:35:58   because on one page she's like so we got [TS]

00:36:01   to chicago we sold out the metro and [TS]

00:36:03   there was a line around the block man [TS]

00:36:05   right i was riding in the back of a box [TS]

00:36:09   truck from shows to show from chose to [TS]

00:36:12   shows and I was peeing in a mason jar [TS]

00:36:14   and and when you have sold out the metro [TS]

00:36:19   or played the metro you realize that [TS]

00:36:20   even if you're only charging five [TS]

00:36:22   dollars ahead to sell out the metro is [TS]

00:36:25   to have money you are earning money at [TS]

00:36:28   this point it is a it is a bit of a big [TS]

00:36:30   venue and you're in your posting your [TS]

00:36:32   ego [TS]

00:36:33   uh well you're boosting your ego but but [TS]

00:36:36   more than that you have arrived at a [TS]

00:36:38   place where you do not need to go from [TS]

00:36:40   show to show in the back of a box truck [TS]

00:36:42   so if you're doing it you are doing it [TS]

00:36:47   you are doing it intentionally you know [TS]

00:36:50   you are choosing it's like shoes and a [TS]

00:36:52   heart chosen they've done this [TS]

00:36:53   impossible thing of choosing to be in [TS]

00:36:55   the proletariat yeah Rollins is either [TS]

00:36:57   lying which I which partly I think is [TS]

00:37:00   true or he is self mythologizing in the [TS]

00:37:03   moment right he's waking up in the [TS]

00:37:05   morning in the morning and there is a [TS]

00:37:07   there is a tour manager or there's [TS]

00:37:08   somebody standing there with an envelope [TS]

00:37:10   full of cash and they are they are [TS]

00:37:13   pretending it's not there and they're [TS]

00:37:15   continuing to 2a you know to pee and [TS]

00:37:19   jars and live at the end roll from show [TS]

00:37:23   to show in a 50-gallon drum because [TS]

00:37:25   because to get your own hotel room is [TS]

00:37:27   bullshit you know and I got picked up at [TS]

00:37:29   the airport one time by Bob Weston and [TS]

00:37:33   big black yea big black and he picked me [TS]

00:37:36   up at the airport in be big black van [TS]

00:37:39   and it is afford band that is just [TS]

00:37:42   exactly like you imagine the Minutemen [TS]

00:37:44   toward in it is the van that the big [TS]

00:37:46   black torrent and it's a 75 you know or [TS]

00:37:50   78 read for bandwidth no paneling so [TS]

00:37:55   it's just the you know it's just the [TS]

00:37:56   sheet metal and there are no seats in [TS]

00:37:58   the van there's like there's like a a a [TS]

00:38:01   loveseat that somebody drags like [TS]

00:38:03   sitting in steve albini guitar if it's [TS]

00:38:05   like that it's like it's like a stakeout [TS]

00:38:07   metallic and uncomfortable it's like [TS]

00:38:10   sitting in a chair that you bet somebody [TS]

00:38:12   made out of steve albini earwax and you [TS]

00:38:17   know and and the thing has 350,000 miles [TS]

00:38:19   on it and it's got backstage passes from [TS]

00:38:22   Stowe's you know but but not like [TS]

00:38:25   self-consciously but just like [TS]

00:38:27   haphazardly stuck on the walls and he's [TS]

00:38:31   like hey man sorry I could you know i [TS]

00:38:33   had to get the truck running and here we [TS]

00:38:34   go but we're all and and it was great it [TS]

00:38:38   was super cool to be in this this BAM [TS]

00:38:43   but you know Bob Weston was first [TS]

00:38:45   engineer on in utero right right Bob [TS]

00:38:51   Weston is a significant get points on [TS]

00:38:56   that [TS]

00:38:57   well he got paid for it right okay and [TS]

00:39:00   he got a credit on honor but she got [TS]

00:39:03   yeah [TS]

00:39:04   and.and that and if you look at Bob [TS]

00:39:06   Weston cv and i don't mean to throw him [TS]

00:39:08   under the bus he's a wonderful man but [TS]

00:39:10   he is you know part and parcel of of our [TS]

00:39:14   entire culture up that that it that [TS]

00:39:18   descends from punk rock which is that [TS]

00:39:20   this and the thing is if there was a [TS]

00:39:23   winking acknowledgement of like yeah I [TS]

00:39:26   mean isn't this band great like I this [TS]

00:39:29   is this is a piece of living history [TS]

00:39:31   link is like he has no traffic Conestoga [TS]

00:39:33   wagon but i think i can do is i suppose [TS]

00:39:36   i could afford something a little more [TS]

00:39:38   modern [TS]

00:39:39   yeah if any of us for the last 25 years [TS]

00:39:43   were able to still look to wink and say [TS]

00:39:45   yeah i know i could be driving a better [TS]

00:39:48   car but I drive this because i know it's [TS]

00:39:51   cool it's a it's a it is part of history [TS]

00:39:54   and its and I know that picking you up [TS]

00:39:56   at the airport in this van is impressive [TS]

00:39:58   to you and it's like it's like an A&R [TS]

00:40:01   guy with yeah let's all sit here and [TS]

00:40:03   like and just like just like give [TS]

00:40:06   ourselves a little bit of of crotch [TS]

00:40:08   pleasure [TS]

00:40:10   let's just gently stroke ourselves [TS]

00:40:13   knowing that we're in big black band and [TS]

00:40:16   Mike watch shot near once but in fact [TS]

00:40:19   but in fact for the last 25 years we had [TS]

00:40:22   we have not let's be honest we if if you [TS]

00:40:24   think that there has been that element [TS]

00:40:26   of fun in our culture you are [TS]

00:40:29   misremembering it because Bob Weston [TS]

00:40:31   pick me up in that van with the pretense [TS]

00:40:35   that that was his car and that was what [TS]

00:40:39   he could afford and that was how you [TS]

00:40:41   kept it you know and and and so and [TS]

00:40:45   that's been true of everything we've [TS]

00:40:47   done as a as a youth culture that's now [TS]

00:40:50   moved into middle age where it's just [TS]

00:40:52   like oh yeah sorry man I couldn't you [TS]

00:40:54   know I would've been here earlier but i [TS]

00:40:56   had to i was out getting frizzy and fit [TS]

00:40:59   to poor people [TS]

00:41:00   yeah i was working at the needle [TS]

00:41:02   exchange and it's just like wait a [TS]

00:41:03   fucking minute no you weren't and that [TS]

00:41:07   at some one thing is when I look at the [TS]

00:41:08   kids now i see they have taken all of [TS]

00:41:11   that David they've adopted the fashion [TS]

00:41:14   they've taken the taking the fun parts [TS]

00:41:16   of that [TS]

00:41:17   and it's why it that's why they they're [TS]

00:41:19   a little bit incomprehensible to us [TS]

00:41:20   because it's like with wait a minute why [TS]

00:41:22   are you having fun [TS]

00:41:23   you don't get to have fun you're making [TS]

00:41:24   one is it's not so different from me [TS]

00:41:26   being 46 in choosing to wear a shirt [TS]

00:41:28   with a comic book character on it [TS]

00:41:29   I i have i have the means i know we [TS]

00:41:32   having fun [TS]

00:41:33   oh yeah I am but it's partly nostalgic [TS]

00:41:35   is partly something I feel like I'm is [TS]

00:41:37   but you know you said something about to [TS]

00:41:39   being being middle-aged and I think that [TS]

00:41:42   can't be overlooked I mean you know when [TS]

00:41:45   you're younger you sure have more energy [TS]

00:41:46   can put up with more you were creating [TS]

00:41:49   memories that you will someday be [TS]

00:41:50   nostalgic about but you know think about [TS]

00:41:52   how many of those bands again you know [TS]

00:41:55   going back to a time when you let's say [TS]

00:41:59   you start I can't think of a specific [TS]

00:42:00   manner of the bus costs to come to my [TS]

00:42:02   joy division comes to mind [TS]

00:42:04   I mean a lot of that was you didn't have [TS]

00:42:06   nobody came in right with the suitcase [TS]

00:42:09   full of money but when you had the [TS]

00:42:10   opportunity i mean joy division became [TS]

00:42:13   new order and new order became huge and [TS]

00:42:18   the thing is you might have gotten [TS]

00:42:19   signed to mute or you might have gotten [TS]

00:42:21   signed to i mean you know i am was an [TS]

00:42:25   independent label for a pretty long time [TS]

00:42:26   and you know and and thank God they put [TS]

00:42:29   out the police you know what I mean they [TS]

00:42:31   became a major on trying to say though [TS]

00:42:34   is that when you do for lack of a better [TS]

00:42:36   word grow up a little bit you might [TS]

00:42:39   think about something like well you know [TS]

00:42:41   what if I really care about what I'm [TS]

00:42:43   making a I'm gonna need the means to do [TS]

00:42:46   that for a living and not have to work [TS]

00:42:48   at haagen dazs and then be when you no [TS]

00:42:50   longer have to work at Hadassah and [TS]

00:42:52   that's all just kind of put on you start [TS]

00:42:55   to realize the extent to which you are a [TS]

00:42:58   white kid who could drive around in a [TS]

00:43:00   band and and draw a crowd this is an old [TS]

00:43:02   argument but if you ask most African [TS]

00:43:05   American people who are living in [TS]

00:43:06   poverty they would love to have have [TS]

00:43:09   even that freedom to get in a van and [TS]

00:43:10   drive around a heartbeat but they can't [TS]

00:43:12   they got stuff to do their work in a [TS]

00:43:13   factory sorry sorry about punk rock here [TS]

00:43:15   but that's really true you know a friend [TS]

00:43:17   of mine always used to say you can't [TS]

00:43:19   choose to join the proletariat because [TS]

00:43:21   if you choose to do that [TS]

00:43:22   you still implicitly have the net of [TS]

00:43:25   being a white man who can walk anywhere [TS]

00:43:26   and be the norm [TS]

00:43:28   and and you know it but you're you are [TS]

00:43:31   making the arguments that I feel like [TS]

00:43:33   still from within this that the [TS]

00:43:35   punk-rock mentality like we at with the [TS]

00:43:37   idea that we even need to explain that [TS]

00:43:41   we are that it's okay to enjoy success [TS]

00:43:43   is we we we've been doing our whole [TS]

00:43:47   lives so that we feel we feel like we've [TS]

00:43:50   we forget that it is a technology and I [TS]

00:43:53   feel like punk rock came punk rock came [TS]

00:43:56   up not just in the blighted a like like [TS]

00:44:02   shit scape of Manchester and to a lesser [TS]

00:44:05   extent los angeles in the late seventies [TS]

00:44:08   but also not to just always be hammering [TS]

00:44:12   on this but in in the Cold War you know [TS]

00:44:16   during a time when it seemed like it [TS]

00:44:19   wasn't just that the rich people like [TS]

00:44:22   they are now the rich people just seem [TS]

00:44:24   like they're greedy they're stealing [TS]

00:44:27   they are they're just sucking bone [TS]

00:44:30   marrow and they're just lame [TS]

00:44:33   there they are they're ugly their course [TS]

00:44:35   but but but we forget that 35 years ago [TS]

00:44:41   40 years ago those people also we [TS]

00:44:44   perceive them i guess maybe mostly we [TS]

00:44:47   perceive them as having their finger on [TS]

00:44:50   the red button that was going to that [TS]

00:44:52   was going to annihilate all of human [TS]

00:44:54   like they were part they were part of we [TS]

00:44:56   perceived and probably true that they [TS]

00:44:58   were part of a system that elected the [TS]

00:45:00   people who are keeping is really close [TS]

00:45:01   to the football game opened right and so [TS]

00:45:04   that paranoia i couldn't i could see and [TS]

00:45:08   understand why why initially punk rock [TS]

00:45:12   had this we're anti-everything mentality [TS]

00:45:15   because to join that world at all to [TS]

00:45:20   even to go so far as to like eat a [TS]

00:45:22   hamburger at McDonalds you were [TS]

00:45:24   contributing not just to a world where [TS]

00:45:26   there were rich people who got to have [TS]

00:45:28   swimming pools but you are contributing [TS]

00:45:30   to a bankrupt a morally bankrupt world [TS]

00:45:34   that was teetering on the edge of [TS]

00:45:38   mutually assured destruction [TS]

00:45:40   so there wasn't a way to participate [TS]

00:45:42   where you were complicit and so punk [TS]

00:45:46   rock was anti everything so you have you [TS]

00:45:48   had to make something that was kind of [TS]

00:45:49   ugly [TS]

00:45:50   you had to know you were you eat it was [TS]

00:45:53   the only moral choice but that has not [TS]

00:45:55   been the case for 21 years [TS]

00:45:59   yeah you know and so up so that and and [TS]

00:46:05   the reality is looking back punk rock's [TS]

00:46:08   response to the Cold War really when you [TS]

00:46:12   broke it down when you really read the [TS]

00:46:14   scenes was just a garbled mix of like [TS]

00:46:17   like revolutionary marxism and I mean it [TS]

00:46:21   was it was nothing new it was just it [TS]

00:46:23   was just the dregs of a of a you know of [TS]

00:46:27   a city college education like sandanista [TS]

00:46:31   really do you know what the Sandinistas [TS]

00:46:33   we're up to [TS]

00:46:34   not a great record and it's and then [TS]

00:46:36   they are and the Sandinistas sucked you [TS]

00:46:38   know and to put to put to wave that flag [TS]

00:46:42   was just was was to was to exhibit how [TS]

00:46:46   little you knew and how how mute and [TS]

00:46:49   impotent your response to it really was [TS]

00:46:51   like punk rock did not smash the state [TS]

00:46:54   it did not end the Cold War punk rock [TS]

00:46:57   did not save us from from basically 12 [TS]

00:47:02   years of Imperial Bush family punk rock [TS]

00:47:06   did not do shit except you know and and [TS]

00:47:09   when it when it turned into grunge when [TS]

00:47:12   punk rock made that transition into [TS]

00:47:13   grunge it continue to not do shit we did [TS]

00:47:16   not even defeat ticketmaster like all we [TS]

00:47:22   did all it did is what you're describing [TS]

00:47:25   which is it started an alternate model [TS]

00:47:28   for financing music and culture addy at [TS]

00:47:32   the DIY right concept is the only [TS]

00:47:35   positive product aside from the fact [TS]

00:47:38   that some great music got made [TS]

00:47:40   but philosophically DIY is the only [TS]

00:47:43   thing that came up in weight and without [TS]

00:47:45   we're going with that we're going and [TS]

00:47:47   you know to whatever china but we really [TS]

00:47:49   discovered was the maps are reliable and [TS]

00:47:51   hey West Indies [TS]

00:47:52   haha right and here are my intention [TS]

00:47:55   unintended consequences that you start [TS]

00:47:58   out with this this ethos and you know I [TS]

00:48:00   don't say it's freaky things I wasn't [TS]

00:48:02   there but I mean you start out with an [TS]

00:48:03   easy thing you're young you know I mean [TS]

00:48:05   are off from you really weren't [TS]

00:48:07   I mean we were there what what did we [TS]

00:48:08   get when we just wanted we join that [TS]

00:48:10   culture 1980 yeah i mean i-i everything [TS]

00:48:14   and this is this is you know another old [TS]

00:48:16   man point but also everything so many of [TS]

00:48:19   the things that we get to enjoy even [TS]

00:48:21   started when i was there were filtered [TS]

00:48:23   already you know two or three times [TS]

00:48:25   through you know I let's put it this way [TS]

00:48:28   I i would not have discovered a lot of [TS]

00:48:31   that music without your community radio [TS]

00:48:33   but also like independent record record [TS]

00:48:35   stores and a lot of times it was pretty [TS]

00:48:37   easy to go buy a copy of never mind the [TS]

00:48:39   bollocks at you know record bar it but [TS]

00:48:42   independent record stores were thing not [TS]

00:48:44   because they were response to the [TS]

00:48:46   corporate record world independent [TS]

00:48:48   record stores were just a business model [TS]

00:48:49   they were closed and it was a specialty [TS]

00:48:51   stores like a comic shop [TS]

00:48:52   yeah and that what we're discovering now [TS]

00:48:55   what I'm seeing now is that DIY is [TS]

00:48:59   finally divorced from the idea that it [TS]

00:49:03   is against business and DIY is just now [TS]

00:49:08   a business model and taking it away from [TS]

00:49:12   this idea that DIY is against business [TS]

00:49:15   you don't have young bands were like we [TS]

00:49:17   don't do interviews we don't want your [TS]

00:49:20   filthy lucre it's just the house say [TS]

00:49:23   everything I've got sand facebook [TS]

00:49:25   yeah that's right if you what do you [TS]

00:49:27   know about good thanks what they had and [TS]

00:49:30   it's like fuck fuck wait a minute [TS]

00:49:32   it never was DIY was never a like an [TS]

00:49:39   alternative to business it was just a [TS]

00:49:41   form of business like if you put out a [TS]

00:49:44   record is because you want people to [TS]

00:49:47   hear it you want them to essentially to [TS]

00:49:50   to buy it otherwise you would press [TS]

00:49:52   those records in and giving them away [TS]

00:49:53   but but you know here's the other thing [TS]

00:49:55   is it I don't you tell me this is BS but [TS]

00:49:58   on the punk rock is if nothing else [TS]

00:50:01   extremely subconscious force excuse me [TS]

00:50:04   extremely self-conscious [TS]

00:50:06   you are yes you as we stipulated you're [TS]

00:50:08   actively reacting to something else [TS]

00:50:11   mostly in a negative way but I mean I'm [TS]

00:50:14   never going on about people like to shop [TS]

00:50:16   or whatever but like there's always been [TS]

00:50:18   a self-consciousness and art but you can [TS]

00:50:22   produce something of enduring value with [TS]

00:50:24   that self-consciousness if you're--if [TS]

00:50:25   Casso is reacting saison we came up with [TS]

00:50:29   some pretty good stuff and figured out [TS]

00:50:30   how to make a living out of it just [TS]

00:50:32   you've got you've got to create more [TS]

00:50:34   than just a poorly written manifesto [TS]

00:50:37   right and and the thing is Picasso [TS]

00:50:40   rejected the artists that come before [TS]

00:50:43   him but and and poured a brilliant new [TS]

00:50:47   he said with the abbot you look at this [TS]

00:50:49   about it he didn't just go there but [TS]

00:50:51   what he didn't do was say I no longer [TS]

00:50:55   represented by a dealer in Paris my [TS]

00:50:59   artwork should be free you know Picasso [TS]

00:51:04   used the same dealers that is that is [TS]

00:51:08   for animals proud to use the same [TS]

00:51:10   dealers that is that the guys that came [TS]

00:51:11   before him did it was punk rock was the [TS]

00:51:14   first real thing that said we reject the [TS]

00:51:19   we reject commerce because commerce has [TS]

00:51:24   produced the bomb and or so or or the or [TS]

00:51:31   the class system or its responsible for [TS]

00:51:34   hunger or like any ill you can find you [TS]

00:51:37   can strap on to this quote-unquote big [TS]

00:51:40   system [TS]

00:51:40   absolutely and if you if you if you [TS]

00:51:42   collect eighties punk-rock azines like i [TS]

00:51:46   do and read the screens in there there [TS]

00:51:52   is no liberal cause that punk rock won't [TS]

00:51:55   attach itself to read and i don't i [TS]

00:51:59   don't mean liberal because punk-rock [TS]

00:52:00   ultimately really extremely conservative [TS]

00:52:03   was a libertarian philosophy like at [TS]

00:52:06   Anarchy with the big a in a circle is [TS]

00:52:09   just tea party [TS]

00:52:13   hit you using it'sit's gun gun nuts in [TS]

00:52:19   leather jacket basically you know it is [TS]

00:52:22   it is leave me alone [TS]

00:52:24   why should I have to do that right why [TS]

00:52:26   should we do but did not as awesome me [TS]

00:52:29   you're not the boss of me it is a bratty [TS]

00:52:32   teen age philosophy that is you know now [TS]

00:52:36   of course promulgated mostly by these [TS]

00:52:39   people with PT Cruisers but that's what [TS]

00:52:44   I'm you know secrets [TS]

00:52:47   I'd I swear to you the people who were [TS]

00:52:49   reading iron Rand in 1984 were all I [TS]

00:52:55   mean either the drummer of rush or that [TS]

00:52:59   this this like this subset this the but [TS]

00:53:02   the kind of the place where ponytails [TS]

00:53:04   and punk rock meet if it is thank you [TS]

00:53:09   is it is anarchy / libertarianism right [TS]

00:53:14   so anyway I I feel hopeful for the [TS]

00:53:18   future but I really feel like we need to [TS]

00:53:20   look back as a as a people and I'm talk [TS]

00:53:23   about our generation in particular look [TS]

00:53:25   back and say wait a minute this was [TS]

00:53:27   bullshit the whole time we did not need [TS]

00:53:30   or not maybe not the whole time but we [TS]

00:53:32   inherited a thing that we did not [TS]

00:53:33   understand we adopted we adopted this [TS]

00:53:37   this mentality that for things to be [TS]

00:53:41   good they had to prove they weren't shit [TS]

00:53:43   and that you know that that money and [TS]

00:53:47   business were intrinsically inherently [TS]

00:53:49   immoral and it was and it was garbage [TS]

00:53:52   and it handicapped but it also but you [TS]

00:53:55   know how you're talking about people who [TS]

00:53:56   would think you're weird best thing [TS]

00:53:58   about how would with Johnny Rotten [TS]

00:54:00   approve this you also as creative as you [TS]

00:54:02   might have thought you were you had a [TS]

00:54:04   clear progenitor progenitor that you [TS]

00:54:07   wanted to please and that [TS]

00:54:10   self-consciousness might lead you you [TS]

00:54:12   know to to make this something with this [TS]

00:54:15   certain drum beating do you recognize [TS]

00:54:17   that that's actually a jumpy from noi or [TS]

00:54:19   whatever you know that there's this [TS]

00:54:20   there's this when you say like this is [TS]

00:54:23   the would like doctrinal conservative [TS]

00:54:25   thing I i look at [TS]

00:54:26   somebody I don't know what's your [TS]

00:54:27   feelings on Captain Beefheart i really [TS]

00:54:28   like Captain Beefheart and I think the [TS]

00:54:30   guys to be generous and he don't know [TS]

00:54:33   he's certainly probably self-conscious [TS]

00:54:34   in his way he was definitely insane he [TS]

00:54:36   wouldn't wear headphones in the studio [TS]

00:54:37   but to me that's something really really [TS]

00:54:40   knew like what when that came out i mean [TS]

00:54:42   the new york dolls were like rolling [TS]

00:54:44   stones and dresses i should do this for [TS]

00:54:46   a living I'm pretty good shows you are [TS]

00:54:47   good at it but I mean again you you go [TS]

00:54:49   back to something like screamin Jay [TS]

00:54:52   Hawkins I don't know one thing him in [TS]

00:54:53   particular but but like the kind of [TS]

00:54:55   people who would really produce Charlie [TS]

00:54:57   Parker or you know somebody who went out [TS]

00:55:01   there and really I mean Charlie Parker [TS]

00:55:03   was playing and and dizzy gillespie were [TS]

00:55:05   playing in you know the contemporary [TS]

00:55:08   like big bands the time during the day [TS]

00:55:09   and like reinventing what we thought [TS]

00:55:13   about music certainly with projectors [TS]

00:55:15   but like their response was not to go [TS]

00:55:17   screw you're just gonna play this just [TS]

00:55:18   play this faster like the kind of [TS]

00:55:21   rebooted the whole idea of jazz and a [TS]

00:55:24   lot of guys they made something new that [TS]

00:55:26   in its way we came to realize was [TS]

00:55:28   beautiful it was at the time callaway [TS]

00:55:30   called a Chinese music nor ping pong but [TS]

00:55:32   but like we came to realize that you [TS]

00:55:34   know that was something substantially [TS]

00:55:36   new and we need to we need to be able to [TS]

00:55:39   separate all of the amazing artwork that [TS]

00:55:42   got made under the rubric of punk rock [TS]

00:55:44   from the from what is the the kind of [TS]

00:55:49   virus [TS]

00:55:50   I'm not bored I'm bored I'm I I get what [TS]

00:55:52   you're saying yes because it was your [TS]

00:55:54   favorite punk rock then the sex pistols [TS]

00:55:57   really yeah because that's that really [TS]

00:56:00   is that that has antecedence in in like [TS]

00:56:06   the kind of rock and roll that you [TS]

00:56:08   really love in some ways the sex pistols [TS]

00:56:10   are not really that different from ac/dc [TS]

00:56:12   and a lot of ways the sex pistols and [TS]

00:56:13   the romantics if you put blindfolds on [TS]

00:56:17   like people from outer space if you if [TS]

00:56:19   you blindfolded my pillows and played [TS]

00:56:22   them the sex pistols in the romantics [TS]

00:56:23   right people i think the pillows would [TS]

00:56:25   say I don't know the guy from the [TS]

00:56:27   romantics is kinda got a pretty cool [TS]

00:56:29   little Lisp the Sex Pistols guys a [TS]

00:56:32   little bit creamier but they're both [TS]

00:56:33   they're both amazing i mean let's say [TS]

00:56:35   let's say my favorite cool punk band [TS]

00:56:37   because that because most people can't [TS]

00:56:40   go [TS]

00:56:40   their heads around the fact that the sex [TS]

00:56:41   pistols are even are even a punk band [TS]

00:56:46   anymore but I'm my favorite cool punk [TS]

00:56:49   band is the bad brands and the Bad [TS]

00:56:52   Brains in spite of the fact that their [TS]

00:56:54   records don't sound good [TS]

00:56:56   I got a pretty bad i think we got a [TS]

00:56:58   really bad attitude that their records [TS]

00:57:00   already hard to work the records don't [TS]

00:57:02   really sound good like they're you put [TS]

00:57:04   them on and you're like oh god I wish I [TS]

00:57:06   could rerecord this even using the [TS]

00:57:09   technology that the head of it wasn't [TS]

00:57:11   that smart that's me and his crew to you [TS]

00:57:12   I don't know how they let that spot guy [TS]

00:57:14   anywhere near a favor and that is [TS]

00:57:15   absolutely true blue skidoo' and I mean [TS]

00:57:17   it's true a lot of those r.i.p listen to [TS]

00:57:19   it now anyway not to go back if we could [TS]

00:57:21   go back in time and rerecord those [TS]

00:57:23   records the world would be a better [TS]

00:57:24   place and that is one thing about that [TS]

00:57:25   Sex Pistols record that it sounds it is [TS]

00:57:29   solid gold sounding it sounds like a [TS]

00:57:31   freaking abba record it's recorded so [TS]

00:57:33   well and you you put that side to side [TS]

00:57:35   with the Bad Brains record which was you [TS]

00:57:37   know one of those was made by ric ocasek [TS]

00:57:39   that's i'm selling their in a men's room [TS]

00:57:41   yeah it sounds like it was recorded [TS]

00:57:42   through one headphone speaker but those [TS]

00:57:47   guys are putting together so much music [TS]

00:57:52   out of out of like a grab bag of nuts [TS]

00:57:57   and bowls and the and the overlay of [TS]

00:57:59   like I mean what i don't like about the [TS]

00:58:02   clashes that they are a white reggae [TS]

00:58:03   band what I love about the Bad Brains is [TS]

00:58:06   that they are fucking reggae band [TS]

00:58:08   there's they are doing shit that nobody [TS]

00:58:11   did that nobody has done before sense [TS]

00:58:13   and it's not like any aspect of it was [TS]

00:58:15   new but they put it together in a way [TS]

00:58:18   that it still inspires me right and you [TS]

00:58:22   know and I was not able I was never a [TS]

00:58:24   Fugazi person i did not make that [TS]

00:58:26   transition me neither [TS]

00:58:28   I mean I i like that i like i like Minor [TS]

00:58:30   Threat a lot and there are a couple [TS]

00:58:32   Fugazi songs are familiar with that I i [TS]

00:58:34   thought- that was really really good and [TS]

00:58:36   I've seen I never saw them live but I've [TS]

00:58:37   seen some of their videos of their live [TS]

00:58:40   stuff and man they were some working men [TS]

00:58:42   on CH and everything is I love those [TS]

00:58:45   early Black Flag records love them early [TS]

00:58:48   early early early Black Flag record [TS]

00:58:50   everything before they weren't allowed [TS]

00:58:52   to record anything [TS]

00:58:53   you're talking about this continue [TS]

00:58:55   talking like old-school 33 Rollins yeah [TS]

00:58:57   and I used to go see all I mean I I had [TS]

00:59:00   a I had a wonderful time in the [TS]

00:59:03   punk-rock years suicidal tendencies [TS]

00:59:06   loved it but by the time it turned into [TS]

00:59:09   bad religion by the time you know by the [TS]

00:59:12   time Circle Jerks turned into bad [TS]

00:59:14   religion i didn't think that was my [TS]

00:59:16   first punk rock show was when circle [TS]

00:59:18   jerk that turned into bed religion I [TS]

00:59:20   think that literally 1986 my first do is [TS]

00:59:23   I went to circle jerk show i was totally [TS]

00:59:25   terrified by the skanking and it was all [TS]

00:59:28   like clothes cigarettes and you know and [TS]

00:59:31   things people seen in magazines up mr. [TS]

00:59:35   know it really is true you can you can [TS]

00:59:36   seem like your guys like you talk about [TS]

00:59:38   this guy's you walk around the sink [TS]

00:59:40   stoppers acting like the real tough and [TS]

00:59:42   they're in their dirty clothes but you [TS]

00:59:44   know that's that's still a reaction to [TS]

00:59:47   what you've seen other people do and in [TS]

00:59:49   three years they will address in two [TS]

00:59:50   years they won't dress like that anymore [TS]

00:59:52   because they they are following a [TS]

00:59:54   certain snaps on punk rock they are [TS]

00:59:56   following a certain kind of fashion from [TS]

00:59:59   [TS]

01:00:00   any 32 1987 if I came out of a concert [TS]

01:00:05   and I was not covered in blood [TS]

01:00:08   I I felt like it was a shit was the shit [TS]

01:00:13   one ng because no I mean it was it [TS]

01:00:16   wasn't all my blood I mean it was it was [TS]

01:00:18   you that he took the bitches act it [TS]

01:00:20   wasn't that we were all taking each [TS]

01:00:21   other out i mean i was just interesting [TS]

01:00:23   but it was in a spirit of you know you [TS]

01:00:26   have each other up and stuff yeah get in [TS]

01:00:28   the middle and and and you did that [TS]

01:00:30   would you do that shit out of you [TS]

01:00:31   haha oh my god was so scared that I was [TS]

01:00:34   up over by the bar [TS]

01:00:35   oh my god I wanted and I thrived on it [TS]

01:00:38   beat you know hit me hard hit me hard [TS]

01:00:40   were allowed it was encouraged and and [TS]

01:00:43   then if somebody fell you didn't pick [TS]

01:00:44   them up and I mean one of the most [TS]

01:00:45   traumatic experiences I ever had was at [TS]

01:00:47   an all show a guy jumped up this you [TS]

01:00:50   know staged over and it she just went [TS]

01:00:52   into a hole my god said and he was he [TS]

01:00:56   was out cold and you know the band [TS]

01:00:59   stopped we all stopped we help this we [TS]

01:01:01   got this guy into an ambulance and the [TS]

01:01:04   show started up again like that so punk [TS]

01:01:06   rock it was great but but but really [TS]

01:01:10   that transition Circle Jerks into bad [TS]

01:01:13   religion I stopped believing that there [TS]

01:01:16   was a thing called punk rock anymore i [TS]

01:01:17   just--can i mean i didn't i looked [TS]

01:01:19   around and i was like what this is I [TS]

01:01:21   don't even know what this is and really [TS]

01:01:23   that was the last moment that it had any [TS]

01:01:25   relevance because then it was all then [TS]

01:01:27   the next generation was all punk rock [TS]

01:01:28   through through punk rock through punk [TS]

01:01:31   rock it was it was it was for I mean [TS]

01:01:35   because of course being 21 is like being [TS]

01:01:37   87 in punk rock years by the time it by [TS]

01:01:41   the time we got to 1990 was like really [TS]

01:01:44   we're taking our music from these guys [TS]

01:01:45   from aberdeen washington now is that how [TS]

01:01:48   far out we have to buy better names like [TS]

01:01:50   the raincoats to find some monkeys that [TS]

01:01:53   still have a little bit of life in them [TS]

01:01:56   ok these were pulling these ding-dongs [TS]

01:01:58   out of trees now and they're making and [TS]

01:02:03   grudges well that's what we're gonna [TS]

01:02:04   that's what we're going to call it [TS]

01:02:05   grunge like we talked about notnot [TS]

01:02:07   enduring oh yeah i've fallen so far this [TS]

01:02:11   is not even this is just not this [TS]

01:02:13   something else and you know i got into [TS]

01:02:15   music because i was watching the grunge [TS]

01:02:18   bands i came to Seattle and wanted to be [TS]

01:02:20   in a band you know when I was playing I [TS]

01:02:23   was playing jingle jangle REM tom petty [TS]

01:02:26   Rock because to me it's stuff that was [TS]

01:02:30   where it seemed like we were headed like [TS]

01:02:32   that was where the good music was coming [TS]

01:02:34   from and I show up in this town and [TS]

01:02:37   they're all these swamp monsters they [TS]

01:02:42   order a Jagermeister and get a record [TS]

01:02:44   touch it and they're playing you know [TS]

01:02:47   really what sounded to me at the time [TS]

01:02:49   like retro music what about meeting I [TS]

01:02:53   started with a meaningless genre like [TS]

01:02:55   how can you put Mudhoney and the melvins [TS]

01:02:58   and Nirvana and Pearl Jam in the same [TS]

01:03:01   genre it just doesn't make a lick of [TS]

01:03:02   sense [TS]

01:03:03   well it's just the same as punk rock if [TS]

01:03:04   it's good it's rock and roll if it's bad [TS]

01:03:08   it's grunge and the and Camille and I [TS]

01:03:10   didn't did we [TS]

01:03:11   djed the sub pop 20-year anniversary [TS]

01:03:13   party [TS]

01:03:15   Wow several years ago and we have a [TS]

01:03:18   collation out he's now the head of late [TS]

01:03:19   he's at a level that's right a British [TS]

01:03:22   label head but he and I were at this [TS]

01:03:23   this bar Linda's and we had two [TS]

01:03:26   turntables and we went to all of our [TS]

01:03:27   friends and of course the bill owned a [TS]

01:03:29   record store right he had some resources [TS]

01:03:31   and I had some stuff and we collected [TS]

01:03:34   all the like iconic grunge vinyl that we [TS]

01:03:39   could find and then Anna and I don't [TS]

01:03:41   mean like really any of the major label [TS]

01:03:42   stuff but this was this was all the [TS]

01:03:45   bands that were really making the scene [TS]

01:03:48   89 threw 93 and we sat at linda's which [TS]

01:03:53   did not at the time of a very good [TS]

01:03:55   stereo system which was appropriate [TS]

01:03:57   automatically aesthetically appropriate [TS]

01:03:59   and we played this vinyl and we would [TS]

01:04:02   you know one of us would pull a record [TS]

01:04:04   out and the other one would go oh my god [TS]

01:04:06   yes cat but yes they're awesome [TS]

01:04:10   I never heard a cap but did you make [TS]

01:04:12   that up oh that was real health proud [TS]

01:04:14   dude hell trout get that shit on there [TS]

01:04:17   and we would queue up this record and [TS]

01:04:19   we'd be like this is going to blow [TS]

01:04:21   people's minds that we have because the [TS]

01:04:23   room was full of people that were there [TS]

01:04:26   and they're waiting for green river yeah [TS]

01:04:27   and feel like is sitting right in front [TS]

01:04:29   of us you know he and fabric feel like [TS]

01:04:31   even came with some records like we're [TS]

01:04:33   everybody was so excited and then uq [TS]

01:04:35   this shit up and here comes through the [TS]

01:04:37   speakers and within and everybody goes [TS]

01:04:40   yeah and then within a minute we're all [TS]

01:04:44   looking at our fingernails because it's [TS]

01:04:46   sucks like so that like it's terrible [TS]

01:04:50   it's bad they recorded its badly played [TS]

01:04:52   it's badly written most of that music [TS]

01:04:55   was just bad and that's true of every [TS]

01:04:59   music scene anywhere but but the the [TS]

01:05:02   good pans the good grunge bands you have [TS]

01:05:05   heard of there's no there was no secret [TS]

01:05:08   stash of like oh yeah you've never heard [TS]

01:05:11   of these guys but they're gonna they're [TS]

01:05:13   gonna kill you you know i mean there are [TS]

01:05:14   a couple there were a couple but but for [TS]

01:05:17   the most part that stuff was just it was [TS]

01:05:21   like it was like a pair of converse that [TS]

01:05:24   were full of vomit [TS]

01:05:27   ok did you ever read have you read any [TS]

01:05:31   contemporary reviews of early Black [TS]

01:05:34   Sabbath records there they are a riot [TS]

01:05:37   for for so long I mean you know i'm not [TS]

01:05:41   saying everything except it was was [TS]

01:05:43   fantastic but i'm going to say that I'm [TS]

01:05:45   gonna go right ahead and say it [TS]

01:05:47   well at least the first six years first [TS]

01:05:49   just six years yeah there's that 179 275 [TS]

01:05:52   as well yeah there's that was that last [TS]

01:05:54   Ozzy record that sounds like Sloan but [TS]

01:05:56   um but you know how they're always quite [TS]

01:05:58   a statement [TS]

01:05:59   oh yeah it will this is this one song [TS]

01:06:01   that basically takes a was set and as a [TS]

01:06:05   you know the one I mean it's like AG [TS]

01:06:06   ACDC longer you know the one I mean it's [TS]

01:06:08   oh not the gas masks that one on the [TS]

01:06:12   cover but it was last night he record is [TS]

01:06:13   pretty he was pretty gone at that point [TS]

01:06:16   but but it's funny cuz neck like today [TS]

01:06:19   especially like I happen to really like [TS]

01:06:22   the melvins and I think they're grazing [TS]

01:06:24   their incredible ok alright cool I'm [TS]

01:06:27   cool but but I that you know I and [TS]

01:06:30   unlike you I'm given to believe i did [TS]

01:06:32   not sit around and get super duper high [TS]

01:06:34   list them i'm kinda regret that but like [TS]

01:06:37   that's a honey pot like I guess this one [TS]

01:06:38   of their hits but I mean like that song [TS]

01:06:40   is a triumph [TS]

01:06:41   it's so great but like you would never [TS]

01:06:43   have had a Melvin this message is [TS]

01:06:45   definitely I think one of those bands is [TS]

01:06:47   what you're describing which is like [TS]

01:06:48   it's cool to like The Melvins but they [TS]

01:06:50   were really good and then I don't think [TS]

01:06:53   they're ever would have been in Melvin's [TS]

01:06:54   without a black sabbath not at all no [TS]

01:06:56   chance I mean that may sound like [TS]

01:06:58   patently obvious but it's fine if you go [TS]

01:07:00   back to the time man [TS]

01:07:02   no body especially like a sling [TS]

01:07:04   criticisms but nobody like Black Sabbath [TS]

01:07:07   they were like this is ridiculous [TS]

01:07:09   it's the same way I make the joke about [TS]

01:07:10   Mike Anthony which is you know a joke [TS]

01:07:12   but like they're like this is this is [TS]

01:07:14   there playing is asinine [TS]

01:07:16   especially the bass and drum parts you [TS]

01:07:19   know because the bass and drum parts to [TS]

01:07:21   people who are used to hearing Ginger [TS]

01:07:23   Baker like it was but it was no no don't [TS]

01:07:27   don't don't don't [TS]

01:07:28   yeah right yeah well picture I mean [TS]

01:07:30   picture sabbah in 71 they were they were [TS]

01:07:35   so weird and so dangerous was there a [TS]

01:07:38   dumber looking I mean they looked like [TS]

01:07:40   that if you saw them on if you saw Ozzy [TS]

01:07:43   in a bar you would sit as far away from [TS]

01:07:48   him as you could he was the deal was the [TS]

01:07:50   big the archetypal dumb white northerner [TS]

01:07:54   you know he just looks done it the [TS]

01:07:58   fringe he's just looking at it just [TS]

01:08:00   looks like the type of guys he looks [TS]

01:08:02   like the type of guy that's gonna throw [TS]

01:08:03   a pint glass over shortly he's like this [TS]

01:08:05   is a guy has never made a good decision [TS]

01:08:06   in his whole life his whole life Eric [TS]

01:08:09   haircuts tattoos he has down the last he [TS]

01:08:12   has ozzie tattooed on his knuckles [TS]

01:08:13   finally probably isn't helping remember [TS]

01:08:17   69 or whatever like right that was not a [TS]

01:08:21   thing he did later that was that was his [TS]

01:08:23   first statement to the world like raw [TS]

01:08:25   ballsy see says right here [TS]

01:08:28   Omaha Omaha like even in 1980 I fact [TS]

01:08:31   there is exists far as I know there is [TS]

01:08:32   exactly one video that I've seen of the [TS]

01:08:37   crazy train in what looks like a [TS]

01:08:39   cable-access studio and I guess he was [TS]

01:08:42   pretty dried out mostly at this point is [TS]

01:08:45   pretty tried out around but it is right [TS]

01:08:46   that is lady by the Isley [TS]

01:08:48   lady was fixing amount yeah but anyway [TS]

01:08:50   and of course randy rhoads is from [TS]

01:08:52   another planet but Ozzie even in 1980 he [TS]

01:08:55   still looks like he has no idea what to [TS]

01:08:57   do on stage it looks around and he walks [TS]

01:09:00   around and he claps claps he looks [TS]

01:09:02   nervous and request repeatedly that [TS]

01:09:04   everyone go fucking crazy [TS]

01:09:06   yeah stomps stomps is one foot and then [TS]

01:09:08   walks over and then stomps his other [TS]

01:09:10   foot maybe he looks like an autistic [TS]

01:09:12   electrician he holds his hand up and [TS]

01:09:15   then he remembers that that's the hand [TS]

01:09:17   that he's holding the microphone haha [TS]

01:09:19   he's like a rotten robbie singing i did [TS]

01:09:23   i did i ever tell you she came to West [TS]

01:09:27   High School yeah he tells a story and [TS]

01:09:31   this is a clock this is a classically [TS]

01:09:32   they went to the I he went to the other [TS]

01:09:34   high school right the other school [TS]

01:09:36   Randy Rhoads was in the band betrayed i [TS]

01:09:38   was in my orange orange pants they were [TS]

01:09:41   simulcasting from the vantage still so [TS]

01:09:45   brokenhearted and that of course I've [TS]

01:09:47   told you I told you my my my REM the DB [TS]

01:09:50   story yeah that's terrible Jefferson [TS]

01:09:53   like that point I Jefferson fuck stained [TS]

01:09:56   with night ranger opening that's what i [TS]

01:09:58   said fuck spain now that's an ox lots of [TS]

01:10:02   punk-rock name haha Sabbath bloody [TS]

01:10:06   Sabbath was a good record and I wish it [TS]

01:10:08   had been produced different and real [TS]

01:10:09   quick [TS]

01:10:10   I don't have the drumsticks here but but [TS]

01:10:11   you know what Allah especially in arcade [TS]

01:10:15   to extend that need arises better but [TS]

01:10:17   like actually I i'm not a giant Robert [TS]

01:10:20   Chris calfan by any stretch even talk [TS]

01:10:22   about self involved but his review of [TS]

01:10:23   Zen arcade is is really funny says [TS]

01:10:25   something like something like it's such [TS]

01:10:27   a such activity here Bob blues guitar [TS]

01:10:29   gathering dust between the amp and the [TS]

01:10:32   speaker [TS]

01:10:32   haha that's how i feel about every type [TS]

01:10:35   of Sabbath bloody Sabbath and what could [TS]

01:10:37   be a on the face of it a stupid or song [TS]

01:10:41   a stupid or baseline it's like what is [TS]

01:10:43   it like like e BB flat a something like [TS]

01:10:48   it's something ridiculous like Bob blah [TS]

01:10:50   blah but it's so good and then that [TS]

01:10:54   breakdown [TS]

01:10:55   sorry talk about music but the breakdown [TS]

01:10:57   on that is like uh huh [TS]

01:10:59   I love tennis that's probably my [TS]

01:11:01   favorite black sabbath song the next [TS]

01:11:03   record sabotage is where it starts to go [TS]

01:11:05   off the rails and then after that it [TS]

01:11:06   gets a little bit of what about having [TS]

01:11:08   how you're always talking about this [TS]

01:11:10   your family like heaven hell right i do [TS]

01:11:12   I think heaven and hell I was a great [TS]

01:11:15   food you and I almost argue about [TS]

01:11:16   whether that's the best pound-for-pound [TS]

01:11:18   Black Sabbath record which is probably [TS]

01:11:19   not i no see there's that's on the list [TS]

01:11:22   here [TS]

01:11:22   the thing that reality is the best black [TS]

01:11:24   sabbath record that's one sweet leaf [TS]

01:11:26   yes but wow you know the first the first [TS]

01:11:30   time Eric course and audition for the [TS]

01:11:32   long winters name [TS]

01:11:34   I've told this story where he shows up [TS]

01:11:36   with a five-state he showed up with a it [TS]

01:11:38   denotes a base and I said how did you [TS]

01:11:41   learn the song so we'll have an acoustic [TS]

01:11:42   guitar that's five strings on it and I [TS]

01:11:45   said okay great that's and became knows [TS]

01:11:48   this one with rose and he showed up and [TS]

01:11:52   so I i we had a base there i had it's [TS]

01:11:54   like a base bench and I gave him two I [TS]

01:11:56   gave him two songs to learn and he [TS]

01:11:58   played them flawlessly and I was like [TS]

01:12:00   well great [TS]

01:12:01   that was pretty cool why don't you go [TS]

01:12:02   home learn the rest of the record come [TS]

01:12:04   back in a week or two and we'll rehearse [TS]

01:12:06   again he was like oh I mean I noted i [TS]

01:12:10   learned other solutions and began how he [TS]

01:12:13   had already learned i'm like when you [TS]

01:12:15   learn the other songs you've only had [TS]

01:12:16   the record for two days and he was like [TS]

01:12:17   yeah and so that's Derek course [TS]

01:12:20   information he proceeds to play the [TS]

01:12:23   entire outer entire first long winters [TS]

01:12:25   record flawless [TS]

01:12:27   can I on the base and you know he's [TS]

01:12:30   never played a pic didn't have a base [TS]

01:12:31   when he learned and he learned on the [TS]

01:12:33   guitar and I'm like okay kid that's [TS]

01:12:35   pretty impressive [TS]

01:12:37   having never played a base until you're [TS]

01:12:39   on national TV [TS]

01:12:40   you must have appreciated i did and i [TS]

01:12:42   was like you know that's that's ok you [TS]

01:12:46   know that'll do pig and then we started [TS]

01:12:50   just like we're we're we're kind of we [TS]

01:12:52   don't know what to do next we played all [TS]

01:12:53   the songs a couple of times through and [TS]

01:12:56   then we start I just I I think I'd i [TS]

01:12:59   just picked out sweet leaf on the guitar [TS]

01:13:02   and the band kind of picks up the the [TS]

01:13:04   jam and and [TS]

01:13:06   was they were simple enough chords that [TS]

01:13:08   that a sports John Nelson and Chris [TS]

01:13:11   camellia could manage to find something [TS]

01:13:13   to do on their respective keyboard [TS]

01:13:16   I'm we and you know and Michael [TS]

01:13:18   Schilling are our former drummer was a [TS]

01:13:20   big Sabbath fan so we start rocking out [TS]

01:13:22   and courses just rocking the baseline of [TS]

01:13:26   sweetly obviously not that hard but [TS]

01:13:29   that's where you really shine Ringo [TS]

01:13:31   Ringo is parts were not always crazy [TS]

01:13:32   shine on the simple stuff [TS]

01:13:34   yeah and so he and showing for mislikes [TS]

01:13:37   apathy backbone and I'm like this kid is [TS]

01:13:39   incredible i mean he he looks like [TS]

01:13:42   somebody's dirty pile of laundry like it [TS]

01:13:47   looks he looks like a free pile at the [TS]

01:13:49   at the bottom of a dorm [TS]

01:13:51   yeah but it looks like yeah this haircut [TS]

01:13:53   looks like they came from the bars lost [TS]

01:13:55   and found [TS]

01:13:56   yeah but he is nailing this and we get [TS]

01:13:58   to the end of it and I'm like wow dude [TS]

01:14:00   you know kid you've got the job Sabbath [TS]

01:14:04   fan you learned all the records here are [TS]

01:14:06   you learned about the long winters [TS]

01:14:08   record and you know any you know Sabbath [TS]

01:14:10   your you've got the gig and he looks at [TS]

01:14:13   me he goes Moses said and I said yeah [TS]

01:14:19   sweetleaf we did the whole song like I [TS]

01:14:22   saying it [TS]

01:14:22   we did the whole time he was like oh [TS]

01:14:24   yeah just displaying alone he just he [TS]

01:14:28   just intuitive it's because really it is [TS]

01:14:32   intuitive what they're going to do next [TS]

01:14:33   but he didn't he what did not know that [TS]

01:14:37   that's what we were playing he just [TS]

01:14:38   played it I stares at the moment that I [TS]

01:14:41   would always enjoy and i suspect i don't [TS]

01:14:44   know i doubt you enjoyed as much as I [TS]

01:14:46   did and matter because it wasn't just [TS]

01:14:48   sound checks it was I get some no it [TS]

01:14:50   wasn't the show's it was during [TS]

01:14:51   soundcheck but sometimes completely [TS]

01:14:53   apropos of nothing as you know Eric and [TS]

01:14:56   nabeel would suddenly burst into like a [TS]

01:14:59   perfect note-for-note spirit of heat [TS]

01:15:01   yeah they would do it three shows [TS]

01:15:03   something particularly in Europe [TS]

01:15:06   sometimes when what I when going doing [TS]

01:15:08   that when I would talk too long and I'd [TS]

01:15:10   be like listen here's the problem with [TS]

01:15:12   Denmark do you want to know the problem [TS]

01:15:14   with Denmark i'm gonna break it down for [TS]

01:15:17   you here at large [TS]

01:15:19   it was like the spirit of radio and I'd [TS]

01:15:21   be like alright alright [TS]

01:15:23   ok now we're rush rush for a minute they [TS]

01:15:25   would bring you out it was was not you [TS]

01:15:30   know when you're younger you do you do [TS]

01:15:32   silly things and laws by 1819 just have [TS]

01:15:36   to just after high school and in my gap [TS]

01:15:38   year and I I was hanging out with my [TS]

01:15:41   ex-girlfriend and my pal and we stayed [TS]

01:15:44   up all night just being stupid and [TS]

01:15:46   probably taken vibrant and we were all [TS]

01:15:48   at the same time with only got no you do [TS]

01:15:51   we should try to clearwater beach for [TS]

01:15:52   the sunrise and so we can see where this [TS]

01:15:55   is going we literally got into his his [TS]

01:15:58   car and drove you know 45 minutes to [TS]

01:16:02   clear water and it was just gorgeous [TS]

01:16:04   watching the Sun come up behind our [TS]

01:16:05   backs because we have forgotten that we [TS]

01:16:08   were on the west coast of florida up [TS]

01:16:14   I don't know I die tomorrow I would 51 [TS]

01:16:20   man-boy i could put down some fire [TS]

01:16:22   before i discovered a federation took it [TS]

01:16:23   to the next level [TS]

01:16:24   yeah you know I discovered reading that [TS]

01:16:26   Bob move that biography I knew I knew [TS]

01:16:28   mostly secondhand in some cases [TS]

01:16:31   firsthand about you know the stories [TS]

01:16:34   about them but i always assumed that [TS]

01:16:35   they were you know taking like whatever [TS]

01:16:38   the dream I thought the I thought that [TS]

01:16:40   they were taking I had always hear the [TS]

01:16:42   day they took a lot of speed land speed [TS]

01:16:44   record is called that for a reason not a [TS]

01:16:46   great record but in my opinion but but [TS]

01:16:49   you know I had always heard that [TS]

01:16:51   especially bob was taken a lot of speed [TS]

01:16:54   turns out turns out trucker speed he was [TS]

01:16:57   popping ephedrine just like me boom punk [TS]

01:16:59   i look at that you are punk rock oh my [TS]

01:17:02   god I knew that all along but now that a [TS]

01:17:04   doctor ticket it to another level [TS]

01:17:06   yeah but you dr. feelgood got done [TS]

01:17:10   little stands late watch me show you to [TS]

01:17:11   review good could you do me like going [TS]

01:17:16   to feel good when i talk about a shitty [TS]

01:17:20   band something but then things got [TS]

01:17:24   Simpson said around that guy playing a [TS]

01:17:26   100 guitar riffs all in a row even like [TS]

01:17:30   that and i loved it but he got [TS]

01:17:33   the eighties any through in like 4 a-4 [TS]

01:17:38   uh Motley Crue tunes in a row 10 or a [TS]

01:17:42   couple of nights at least a couple in a [TS]

01:17:44   row and then he came back to them later [TS]

01:17:46   and it was like dude you're is that way [TS]

01:17:50   she's that's what she chose to highlight [TS]

01:17:51   you chose to do like four bars of a [TS]

01:17:53   cream song and then you did like three [TS]

01:17:56   formerly croissants yeah but if that was [TS]

01:17:58   it that was you're a tease then I'm [TS]

01:18:01   sorry [TS]

01:18:01   and my crew is like the perfect thing of [TS]

01:18:03   now I i should do this for a living I [TS]

01:18:05   really should you should you should have [TS]

01:18:07   you should have a podcast where somebody [TS]

01:18:09   just names an album who and then just [TS]

01:18:12   for that Stacy look we just try a couple [TS]

01:18:15   guide 23 just shoot me want to see what [TS]

01:18:16   I can do [TS]

01:18:17   uh the guess who um no I Wow Stan you [TS]

01:18:24   guess who that was that the baby and [TS]

01:18:27   seen nothing yet [TS]

01:18:28   uh well no that was so yeah I was [TS]

01:18:30   bachmann from bachman-turner overdrive [TS]

01:18:32   they stopped over driving [TS]

01:18:33   yeah and we like Randy Randy Bachman he [TS]

01:18:36   left the he left the guess who because [TS]

01:18:39   he said they just wanted to party and [TS]

01:18:43   they didn't want to work I was listening [TS]

01:18:46   to American woman the other day which is [TS]

01:18:48   a tune that is that has entered into the [TS]

01:18:51   land of cliche [TS]

01:18:52   so it seems like they're on the devil [TS]

01:18:54   horns it's really it's yes absolutely [TS]

01:18:56   but i was listening to it on a on one [TS]

01:18:58   you know sometimes you you're listening [TS]

01:19:00   to a tune on an unfamiliar stereo and [TS]

01:19:03   you hear the mix differently and I heard [TS]

01:19:06   two things really profoundly one for [TS]

01:19:11   most of the track the band is really not [TS]

01:19:14   in sync at all it's a it's that it's [TS]

01:19:16   that era of like good enough it's very [TS]

01:19:18   floppy a little bit but the river but [TS]

01:19:22   like nobody's really tight with each [TS]

01:19:24   other but those those drum breaks down [TS]

01:19:26   and are now to pop down and nap you hear [TS]

01:19:31   the room in those in the emptiness is [TS]

01:19:35   arrested man shut the fuck up for a [TS]

01:19:36   minute yeah and you hear you here like [TS]

01:19:38   it the squeak of his of his kick pedal [TS]

01:19:40   or whatever [TS]

01:19:41   and-and-and I was suddenly drawn back [TS]

01:19:45   into the tune because it was no longer a [TS]

01:19:50   it was no longer like a cliché that [TS]

01:19:54   made it unlistenable I was hearing the I [TS]

01:19:57   was hearing the early seventies late [TS]

01:20:00   sixties recording technology i was [TS]

01:20:01   hearing these guys write this classic [TS]

01:20:04   tune in there and you bring it into the [TS]

01:20:06   studio like let's do this one and it was [TS]

01:20:09   fun again like it was it was fun to hear [TS]

01:20:12   it was like listening to those beetles [TS]

01:20:14   mixes where you're like oh my god when [TS]

01:20:16   you can hear the carpet Russell there [TS]

01:20:20   was a it was it i mean if you can find [TS]

01:20:22   something new and interesting to hear in [TS]

01:20:24   American woman i will put in with you [TS]

01:20:26   but it was there but I Steppenwolf I [TS]

01:20:32   went through a heavy Steppenwolf [TS]

01:20:33   phase-in in the it right about that time [TS]

01:20:37   when I was trying to figure out maybe [TS]

01:20:39   Jethro Tull's my band this I and there [TS]

01:20:43   is that what you decide [TS]

01:20:44   I decided no I for one day I was driving [TS]

01:20:47   around super baked in my car with my [TS]

01:20:49   friend Peter no sack and we were [TS]

01:20:52   listening to Jethro Tull because Peter [TS]

01:20:53   had this really like unusual music taste [TS]

01:20:58   his favorite band was the talking heads [TS]

01:21:00   but he also loved the doors and he would [TS]

01:21:03   show up sometimes in like Jethro Tull [TS]

01:21:05   what do you think about this and put it [TS]

01:21:06   you know put the tape in and we drive [TS]

01:21:09   around and I was a baked and I was like [TS]

01:21:13   a throat all yes why have I not given [TS]

01:21:17   these guys they're due [TS]

01:21:18   Jethro Tull is my new band at last [TS]

01:21:23   listen this business into this flu and [TS]

01:21:26   then you know it lasted about a day and [TS]

01:21:29   then the next day I heard that I was [TS]

01:21:30   like oh bye guys just baked [TS]

01:21:34   but I went through a Steppenwolf phase [TS]

01:21:36   at that same time and actually saw [TS]

01:21:38   Steppenwolf least their son john k and [TS]

01:21:41   stepping johnk Steppenwolf right I saw [TS]

01:21:43   them on their first reunion tour this [TS]

01:21:45   would have been 86 probably they played [TS]

01:21:48   they played a bar in Anchorage called [TS]

01:21:51   the grand central station and we all [TS]

01:21:53   went and it was cool and amazing when [TS]

01:21:56   you think about it john kay was probably [TS]

01:21:57   39 or something you know like 1986 it [TS]

01:22:02   wasn't that far off [TS]

01:22:04   he probably was 35 we were like this [TS]

01:22:07   guy's really old he's coming out of [TS]

01:22:08   retirement and and we listened to [TS]

01:22:11   Steppenwolf all that summer and it was [TS]

01:22:13   great [TS]

01:22:14   drinking party music like psychedelic [TS]

01:22:16   party music so I was Proust up a woman [TS]

01:22:19   and that stuff actually if you was in a [TS]

01:22:24   deep deep Steppenwolf Steppenwolf [TS]

01:22:26   Steppenwolf i don't know i didn't know [TS]

01:22:30   step of a deep cuts that you have the [TS]

01:22:32   funds are very rarely if you sit down [TS]

01:22:34   there you drive into the valley into the [TS]

01:22:36   deep aor cuts [TS]

01:22:37   yeah it's not like listening to be to [TS]

01:22:39   the flipside of inner got a video where [TS]

01:22:41   they have three or four songs and you're [TS]

01:22:43   like okay it's like listening to you [TS]

01:22:47   know i have like four copies of any [TS]

01:22:49   gotta betta on vinyl [TS]

01:22:51   I don't know how I don't I mean I know [TS]

01:22:53   how I have one but I don't know how I [TS]

01:22:54   have to excuse you occasionally throw it [TS]

01:22:56   at the law [TS]

01:22:57   I think it's because some at one point I [TS]

01:22:59   wanted to have four turntables all four [TS]

01:23:02   copies going at once just for copies of [TS]

01:23:06   inner got to beat it all started like 30 [TS]

01:23:08   seconds apart [TS]

01:23:10   that sounds like a flaming lips [TS]

01:23:12   experiment right we should do that we [TS]

01:23:15   should do that in a parking garage in [TS]

01:23:16   San Francisco [TS]

01:23:19   I'm going to pick up my kid I got [TS]

01:23:27   nothing [TS]

01:23:28   god dammit i love music I know you do we [TS]

01:23:32   should do with music podcast I mean we [TS]

01:23:35   we filter it in like Hitler through [TS]

01:23:38   Roderick on the line but you could do a [TS]

01:23:39   music podcast that blew people's minds [TS]

01:23:42   as long as you know it wasn't about [TS]

01:23:44   guess who [TS]

01:23:46   if I had named any banned from 1976 on [TS]

01:23:49   you could have gone off like a rocket [TS]

01:23:53   oh yeah I mean I i really like any band [TS]

01:23:57   68 or any like you know what I i also [TS]

01:24:00   like the idea I I don't love that word [TS]

01:24:04   mean but she should always say like that [TS]

01:24:06   but um I'm always liked the idea of [TS]

01:24:10   trying to generate this like what it's [TS]

01:24:15   like there was a fake wikipedia page 45 [TS]

01:24:17   years about this fake war like I am sure [TS]

01:24:21   about that wikipedia pages set for five [TS]

01:24:22   years about a fake or no [TS]

01:24:24   yeah I made it past the editors for five [TS]

01:24:26   years but i always liked the idea of [TS]

01:24:28   trying to generate like a new [TS]

01:24:30   catchphrase that literally meant nothing [TS]

01:24:33   my hell yeah I am my friend Marla in [TS]

01:24:36   college was was trying to get us all to [TS]

01:24:39   start using didn't tale isn't something [TS]

01:24:43   that you would carry water in and and [TS]

01:24:45   the the way using a minute that is so [TS]

01:24:48   pale so pale that it's bucket and then I [TS]

01:24:51   started really liking it and actually [TS]

01:24:52   use it man that's that's a hundred [TS]

01:24:54   percent bucket and I think we should do [TS]

01:24:55   that with the guess who I think we [TS]

01:24:57   should get people to to to really feel [TS]

01:25:00   like now lets everyone to todd rundgren [TS]

01:25:01   produce them right the guess who think [TS]

01:25:04   so [TS]

01:25:05   a lot but I i bet you're right no hmm [TS]

01:25:11   he's got crazy hair nowadays run grip [TS]

01:25:14   here you know XTC came around on skype [TS]

01:25:17   setting that you know they were pissed [TS]

01:25:18   as hell they felt they feel like they [TS]

01:25:20   got Phil Spector by him to get let it be [TS]

01:25:23   where like they had skylarking and it's [TS]

01:25:26   a bunch of really good songs and then he [TS]

01:25:28   did all that business he like was like [TS]

01:25:30   ok these tracks and he went [TS]

01:25:32   that business with kind of putting it [TS]

01:25:34   all together into like a song cycle and [TS]

01:25:38   on and departures was pissed when that [TS]

01:25:41   record came out I loved it and [TS]

01:25:43   apparently now they come around they [TS]

01:25:45   really black sabbath their way into [TS]

01:25:46   liking it now which I think it you know [TS]

01:25:49   good on any Partridge do it on any part [TS]

01:25:52   i'm super glad to hear it because I [TS]

01:25:55   think that's a great record fantastic [TS]

01:25:56   record [TS]

01:25:57   yeah I like oranges and lemons too i [TS]

01:25:59   like i like them I like them a panic [TS]

01:26:02   attacks on stage and the stage fright [TS]

01:26:05   I don't ever tell you about the time I [TS]

01:26:06   saw him in a train station [TS]

01:26:08   no um I was in my day I want to hear [TS]

01:26:12   this [TS]

01:26:12   um I was in the train station [TS]

01:26:17   I think your picture 1976 opposing I [TS]

01:26:21   didn't even sniffing blue pacific blue [TS]

01:26:24   and eating automobile tires for three [TS]

01:26:27   days I was not in a good place i was the [TS]

01:26:32   Reading Festival and I was in bath [TS]

01:26:36   england which is down the train line [TS]

01:26:39   from reading is pulling out silly i was [TS]

01:26:43   in i was in pok pok mark on meat pie and [TS]

01:26:48   I had gone there because my my mother's [TS]

01:26:51   maiden name is pretty and there's a town [TS]

01:26:54   in the mendip hills of England called [TS]

01:26:57   pretty and I hitchhiked there to see [TS]

01:27:01   this little town which is really just [TS]

01:27:02   like it's just a maypole and a bar and a [TS]

01:27:06   church in a cemetery and send like [TS]

01:27:08   10,000 sheet [TS]

01:27:10   ok so i went to pretty and and is I you [TS]

01:27:16   know I had a beer in the bar and i slept [TS]

01:27:18   slept overnight in some guys Volkswagen [TS]

01:27:21   in a in a car park and then the next day [TS]

01:27:23   I was like I'm not hitchhiking back out [TS]

01:27:25   of this place there's no one here took [TS]

01:27:27   me all day to hitchhike down there [TS]

01:27:28   so what did i do no no I got a guy a guy [TS]

01:27:32   in a mini drove me back to bath and I [TS]

01:27:35   was going to take the train to London [TS]

01:27:37   but it was the Reading Festival and I [TS]

01:27:41   didn't know about it at the time [TS]

01:27:43   IM at the baths transportation I'm just [TS]

01:27:45   there with a bunch of salary men like [TS]

01:27:47   like the English guys with with the [TS]

01:27:49   umbrellas and and a bowler hats waiting [TS]

01:27:54   for the train and I looked down the [TS]

01:27:56   train platform and there's andy [TS]

01:27:58   partridge and it's just me a bunch of [TS]

01:28:02   lumber shoots and then andy partridge [TS]

01:28:06   and andy partridge isn't his eyes are [TS]

01:28:10   darting around with the train platform [TS]

01:28:13   is fidgeting and nervous and looking [TS]

01:28:16   everywhere to see if anybody recognizes [TS]

01:28:20   him and I'm behind like these guys in it [TS]

01:28:24   in suits and I'm way down the platform [TS]

01:28:27   and i'm watching him and he's looking [TS]

01:28:29   around he's looking to the left is [TS]

01:28:30   looking to the right look like he's [TS]

01:28:32   think he's something that's something he [TS]

01:28:33   doesn't want something he definitely [TS]

01:28:35   doesn't want [TS]

01:28:36   he's like he's like please nobody [TS]

01:28:38   recognized me please nobody recognized [TS]

01:28:40   me and he's looking but he can't stop [TS]

01:28:42   looking around like if you just let me [TS]

01:28:43   just saturday sat down invention and [TS]

01:28:45   open a newspaper he would have been fine [TS]

01:28:47   he looks like a nearsighted but I mean [TS]

01:28:48   he's very easy to pick out of a crowd [TS]

01:28:50   yeah he was killed was extremely [TS]

01:28:51   conspicuous but nobody was recognizing [TS]

01:28:53   him because it was just a bunch of [TS]

01:28:55   normals and he's looking around looking [TS]

01:28:57   around and I'm low i'm watching him and [TS]

01:28:58   then he looks over and he sees me [TS]

01:29:01   looking at him and he snaps front like [TS]

01:29:05   like now he's staring across the [TS]

01:29:09   opposite train platform pretending that [TS]

01:29:11   he didn't just see me yeah and I'm [TS]

01:29:14   looking at him now and he is like dr. [TS]

01:29:16   Donna I I'm huh haha [TS]

01:29:20   and then he looks over and i'm still [TS]

01:29:21   looking at him and he turns and runs [TS]

01:29:23   haha I giving any party's ever run well [TS]

01:29:29   I mean like muscles it off the train [TS]

01:29:32   platform and out of the station like the [TS]

01:29:35   idea to him at the time 1986 the idea of [TS]

01:29:39   him i guess this was 80 this woman later [TS]

01:29:42   this was 88 the idea of sharing a train [TS]

01:29:47   with somebody who had because I would [TS]

01:29:49   have been in a different car when I was [TS]

01:29:51   only Dale that was it just failed he and [TS]

01:29:54   i think it looked to me at the time like [TS]

01:29:56   he [TS]

01:29:57   was experimenting with maybe i'll take [TS]

01:29:59   the train and he got that far and was [TS]

01:30:04   like nope can't do it and I don't know [TS]

01:30:06   what I mean he must have gone and hailed [TS]

01:30:08   a taxi or something it gets a [TS]

01:30:09   agoraphobia [TS]

01:30:10   yeah I think he's he's afraid of rabbits [TS]

01:30:17   [Music] [TS]