Roderick on the Line

Ep. 57: "Unfair"


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:05   hello hi John Merlin has gone good i [TS]

00:00:12   just have some mouth noises to make here [TS]

00:00:15   not for the top of the set [TS]

00:00:18   [Music] [TS]

00:00:19   it's the season it's the mouth noise [TS]

00:00:22   season [TS]

00:00:22   yeah he took a lot of water [TS]

00:00:27   I i do you know when I was when I was [TS]

00:00:31   young I couldn't stand water [TS]

00:00:33   me neither hated it yeah hated it and [TS]

00:00:35   then somehow somewhere along the line I [TS]

00:00:38   got I got to my sister and my sister in [TS]

00:00:41   particular is a real water sort of [TS]

00:00:43   pusher and and somewhere along the line [TS]

00:00:46   I got I got a taste for it and now I I [TS]

00:00:48   probably drink a half gallon of it just [TS]

00:00:54   just every time I walk past the sink I'm [TS]

00:00:56   i choked up big glass water food and [TS]

00:00:59   i've been i love it i can get enough of [TS]

00:01:01   it [TS]

00:01:02   that's pretty much exactly my experience [TS]

00:01:04   I i wonder if part of it [TS]

00:01:06   two things one of my palate developed [TS]

00:01:08   from just wanting a 12 pack of coke a [TS]

00:01:09   day on and the other thing is they go [TS]

00:01:13   wow that's what you're really out of [TS]

00:01:14   tear [TS]

00:01:15   yeah go ahead go ahead I'm listening [TS]

00:01:19   let's see I think it's that I had other [TS]

00:01:21   anyway missed just because a mic [TS]

00:01:22   placement what about what about [TS]

00:01:24   lip-smacking know here's a cover sheet [TS]

00:01:26   get an sm57 on that red leather chair [TS]

00:01:29   i'll put up on mature my get in the do [TS]

00:01:33   chris wallace get a room mic with a [TS]

00:01:34   trigger so you get that kind of David [TS]

00:01:36   Bowie low thing when it's a real when [TS]

00:01:38   it's real dinger archers both make [TS]

00:01:41   noises continue mine [TS]

00:01:44   well I'm a very have you ever seen the [TS]

00:01:47   photograph of my chair i'm not sure i [TS]

00:01:51   read all the magazines even remember it [TS]

00:01:54   really really remember [TS]

00:01:55   yeah let's get the cat is it stained [TS]

00:01:57   it's hard to tell but at a certain point [TS]

00:02:02   it's like to get out like the industrial [TS]

00:02:04   carpeting you have in parts of a bar [TS]

00:02:05   where it becomes one kind of contiguous [TS]

00:02:07   stained like one hypnotic stain yeah [TS]

00:02:10   yeah so the high-traffic areas of your [TS]

00:02:13   chair are sort of more stain the low [TS]

00:02:16   chap driving Eric yeah yeah I used as a [TS]

00:02:19   blue mechanics paper towels share the [TS]

00:02:23   surf so kind of fell apart at a certain [TS]

00:02:26   point and I fixed it with the I made my [TS]

00:02:31   own plywood it's not homemade Flyway [TS]

00:02:36   yeah i took some unique I think you do [TS]

00:02:38   that well I didn't either until I did it [TS]

00:02:40   but I i drilled a hole where the where [TS]

00:02:44   the thing had broken where the dowel had [TS]

00:02:46   broken so I drilled a larger hole and [TS]

00:02:49   then I took a bunch of wood chips at [TS]

00:02:52   that you don't like match sticks and [TS]

00:02:54   stuff and I'm i crunch them all up and [TS]

00:02:57   then I i poured a bunch of glue on that [TS]

00:03:00   and i made a kind of matchstick and glue [TS]

00:03:03   amount them and then I i put it into the [TS]

00:03:10   hole let it dry it's so much more [TS]

00:03:14   accomplished than you give yourself [TS]

00:03:15   credit for [TS]

00:03:16   then I drill the old a new hole through [TS]

00:03:18   the glue and through the fake plywood [TS]

00:03:20   and then the chairs good as new [TS]

00:03:23   I'll tell you what you made my friend [TS]

00:03:24   you have made our casino particleboard [TS]

00:03:26   alright yeah that's what it is a [TS]

00:03:29   particle particle board on my sense is [TS]

00:03:32   based on a conversation we had your [TS]

00:03:33   mom's house a few weeks ago that you are [TS]

00:03:35   not a fan of why I'm gonna get you like [TS]

00:03:38   plywood for certain things but don't you [TS]

00:03:40   have a certain respect for a nice long [TS]

00:03:42   piece of continuous contiguous [TS]

00:03:45   old-growth wood [TS]

00:03:46   mm my sense was that you had you have a [TS]

00:03:49   serious respect for the pores in your [TS]

00:03:50   mother's house [TS]

00:03:51   mmm [TS]

00:03:51   solid wood longwood would well we [TS]

00:03:56   haven't had like 20 minutes on this [TS]

00:03:58   yeah i've got all these all these [TS]

00:03:59   abominations in your neighborhood made [TS]

00:04:00   of short short pointless would and that [TS]

00:04:02   you had continuous planks and yes this [TS]

00:04:05   is this is you know this is a component [TS]

00:04:06   of what this is a theme that you and I [TS]

00:04:09   touched on a lot which is the be tearing [TS]

00:04:13   down of a hundred-year-old thing made [TS]

00:04:16   out of perfect old-growth lumber to [TS]

00:04:20   replace it with something made out of [TS]

00:04:23   off-gassing particle board and then [TS]

00:04:26   posting a sign in the front saying all [TS]

00:04:30   green construction man its new green [TS]

00:04:33   condos and all the polymers have [TS]

00:04:35   insurance you and nothing about nothing [TS]

00:04:38   about it is green tearing the tearing [TS]

00:04:41   the perfectly good house down was not [TS]

00:04:43   green and manufacturing all the all the [TS]

00:04:47   chemical products that this house is [TS]

00:04:49   constructed of was but that wasn't green [TS]

00:04:51   and then building this new house wasn't [TS]

00:04:53   green there's nothing great about it [TS]

00:04:54   except that they installed an efficient [TS]

00:04:57   furnace in the new building or some [TS]

00:04:59   other they being are they put put [TS]

00:05:02   photovoltaic panels on the roof and then [TS]

00:05:05   it's in and people people walk through [TS]

00:05:07   life well i bought this really green [TS]

00:05:09   condo and it's a gym no idea what was [TS]

00:05:11   there and what we have lost as a people [TS]

00:05:13   what we have lost in terms of our [TS]

00:05:16   patrimony these houses that were you [TS]

00:05:19   know if you look at if you tear down [TS]

00:05:21   tear the inside walls out of my mom's [TS]

00:05:23   house which I have done these [TS]

00:05:26   two-by-fours are 28 feet long and [TS]

00:05:29   there's not a knot hole in them there's [TS]

00:05:31   not even a Knothole there there from [TS]

00:05:33   trees that stood that they cut the trees [TS]

00:05:36   but they built my mom's house out of [TS]

00:05:39   they cut them down from three blocks [TS]

00:05:40   away and carted them there by horse and [TS]

00:05:43   milled them on on a sawmill you know [TS]

00:05:48   presumably powered by about probably [TS]

00:05:52   Mexicans know there are no mexicans here [TS]

00:05:54   then it was probably the Chinese it was [TS]

00:05:55   putting well now there were Chinese but [TS]

00:05:58   no but i think it was either powered by [TS]

00:05:59   horse or by would but by the by the [TS]

00:06:02   branches by of branches [TS]

00:06:04   more green and looking for it's all [TS]

00:06:06   right there everything you need is right [TS]

00:06:08   there [TS]

00:06:08   yeah and to tear it down i personally [TS]

00:06:11   think is a crime against all humanity [TS]

00:06:14   and then to build a thing you know a lot [TS]

00:06:17   of these places that term off-gassing [TS]

00:06:19   who is a construction term but that [TS]

00:06:24   tries to describe how all of these these [TS]

00:06:26   a all the particle board and the Emmy [TS]

00:06:29   the wallboard and the most of the [TS]

00:06:32   products that the the the new carpet it [TS]

00:06:35   all after the house is built and after [TS]

00:06:37   you move in it sits there and just sort [TS]

00:06:39   of sort of permeates gather exist gasps [TS]

00:06:44   that's yeah i mean any I mean now behind [TS]

00:06:46   the ones like the formaldehyde also [TS]

00:06:48   things like I don't know if it's a [TS]

00:06:50   petroleum thing but things obviously [TS]

00:06:52   like plastics and down aspects [TS]

00:06:55   well you know for example we buy we buy [TS]

00:06:57   a bath mat we like that we've bought [TS]

00:07:00   three times as its worn-out haha but [TS]

00:07:03   wait a minute wait a minute what are you [TS]

00:07:04   gonna do when they start making that [TS]

00:07:05   back Matt I want to make one out of [TS]

00:07:07   Longwood are you going to be much more [TS]

00:07:10   than I Japanese don't work ping pong but [TS]

00:07:12   every time we buy one of these the same [TS]

00:07:14   thing happen to bring it home and take [TS]

00:07:15   it out of the plastic men it's it's it's [TS]

00:07:19   like a giant plastic vulva opening the [TS]

00:07:21   entire house is enveloped in this in [TS]

00:07:23   this smell and so we've got things like [TS]

00:07:26   to use going to vulva as a as a as a [TS]

00:07:30   metaphor is a plastic vulva I'm not [TS]

00:07:32   being a normative a plastic vomit tell [TS]

00:07:35   me where plastic level it's not going to [TS]

00:07:36   taste like a 9-volt battery smell like a [TS]

00:07:38   bath mat let's be honest [TS]

00:07:40   anyway my point being I I just what it's [TS]

00:07:42   worth I first of all I like to come back [TS]

00:07:44   this because I completely agree with you [TS]

00:07:46   I think the green thing I don't want to [TS]

00:07:48   get off on one of my jags here but I [TS]

00:07:49   think it depends a lot on which micro or [TS]

00:07:53   macro level you want to look at it [TS]

00:07:56   yeah from you know I mean you know to [TS]

00:07:58   just to your point I mean I don't know [TS]

00:08:01   this maybe I don't have enough [TS]

00:08:02   information to to intelligently agree or [TS]

00:08:04   disagree with you but I i agree with you [TS]

00:08:06   being as an intelligent as i am right [TS]

00:08:08   and something we can all agree on long [TS]

00:08:11   way on that do well no but here's the [TS]

00:08:13   thing I I mean the face that I I'm [TS]

00:08:15   you're saying makes complete sense to me [TS]

00:08:17   and this is why when you when you pull [TS]

00:08:19   back the lens just a little bit you say [TS]

00:08:21   well okay well there's also the vehicles [TS]

00:08:24   that had to have gas in them to bring [TS]

00:08:26   people there to make it [TS]

00:08:28   yeah and then the the cheeseburgers this [TS]

00:08:30   little house that Jack built [TS]

00:08:32   mhm oh you know what the house that was [TS]

00:08:34   pretty good you know when you go when [TS]

00:08:36   you go to someplace like you got a rural [TS]

00:08:38   England and you go into somebody's house [TS]

00:08:41   that has a thatched roof and you said [TS]

00:08:42   tell me about your house and they're [TS]

00:08:43   like this house was built in 1547 and [TS]

00:08:47   they show you around the the ceilings in [TS]

00:08:51   the house or are about five foot two and [TS]

00:08:53   you have to duck everywhere you go and [TS]

00:08:54   and got everyone's a hobbit [TS]

00:08:57   well they were certainly and and that no [TS]

00:09:00   thing a lot of canned food mmm perhaps [TS]

00:09:03   the floors are even you know they're [TS]

00:09:06   there ramshackle places and you go wow [TS]

00:09:09   this house you know this house really is [TS]

00:09:14   like it's such a wonderful treasure and [TS]

00:09:16   then you think about it and you're like [TS]

00:09:18   this house was just a bit this house is [TS]

00:09:20   just the one that survived there wasn't [TS]

00:09:22   anything special about it over over 500 [TS]

00:09:25   years all the much better houses than [TS]

00:09:28   this were all torn down or burned down [TS]

00:09:30   and so this little thing half the reason [TS]

00:09:34   it survived probably is that no one [TS]

00:09:38   cared enough about it to tear it down [TS]

00:09:41   no one cared enough about that piece of [TS]

00:09:42   property or or they just didn't get [TS]

00:09:44   around to the land the land it [TS]

00:09:46   ramshackle east on ya and so this thing [TS]

00:09:48   survives and now we now has a plaque on [TS]

00:09:50   the door and now we go there and [TS]

00:09:53   celebrate it but in fact it is just it's [TS]

00:09:56   just the it's just that like that how [TS]

00:09:59   the detritus all the beautiful houses [TS]

00:10:01   are are gone and this is the [TS]

00:10:03   relationship I have with portland oregon [TS]

00:10:06   portland oregon is a beautiful city full [TS]

00:10:09   of bungalows and old architecture and [TS]

00:10:11   the reason that's true is that for the [TS]

00:10:13   last hundred years no one cared enough [TS]

00:10:15   about portland oregon there anything [TS]

00:10:16   down there build something new you know [TS]

00:10:18   it was a it was a backwater and a shit [TS]

00:10:22   Berg and you'd go down there and you're [TS]

00:10:24   like oh yeah it's a house it's a it's a [TS]

00:10:26   town full of [TS]

00:10:27   bungalows and all of them have that have [TS]

00:10:30   moss on the eaves and you can tell every [TS]

00:10:34   single bungalow in Portland has had four [TS]

00:10:36   people living in it all of them [TS]

00:10:37   chain-smoking 20 years that yellow [TS]

00:10:41   patina inside the entire city of [TS]

00:10:42   Portland had a yellow patina until until [TS]

00:10:44   2002 and who's gonna who's gonna find [TS]

00:10:47   you know a renovation of hooker town if [TS]

00:10:50   there wasn't if there wasn't that the [TS]

00:10:52   people as we talked about in previous [TS]

00:10:53   episode if there aren't the people [TS]

00:10:54   coming in with the with the Genesis [TS]

00:10:56   device to to change everything [TS]

00:10:58   everything's going to sit there and it [TS]

00:11:00   is ironic it's same thing happened in [TS]

00:11:02   San Francisco where these houses that [TS]

00:11:04   were in neighborhoods people didn't care [TS]

00:11:06   about they would get those awful sixties [TS]

00:11:08   and seventies renovations but they [TS]

00:11:10   hadn't done anything [TS]

00:11:12   select all the houses the hippies lived [TS]

00:11:13   in and have half-ruined superficially in [TS]

00:11:17   in the sixties and seventies are now [TS]

00:11:19   really expensive houses up1 try to buy a [TS]

00:11:21   house along the Panhandle that is a lot [TS]

00:11:23   of dough is it's a gorgeous victorian [TS]

00:11:25   that was on the west side of the [TS]

00:11:28   earthquake you know made it out and and [TS]

00:11:32   and and that's a funny thing about San [TS]

00:11:34   Francisco is that you know now of course [TS]

00:11:37   today it's it's ludicrous it if you want [TS]

00:11:40   to do anything to your house there's a [TS]

00:11:41   lot of rules like if you have to [TS]

00:11:43   maintain the bay windows [TS]

00:11:44   yeah there's all kinds of the windows [TS]

00:11:46   will sag well i just i see those bay [TS]

00:11:49   windows beautiful ones actually in like [TS]

00:11:50   the western addition in particular I see [TS]

00:11:52   those beautiful curved pieces of glass [TS]

00:11:55   I just think that it must be so costly [TS]

00:11:57   when you have to you know replace curved [TS]

00:12:00   glass in the window [TS]

00:12:01   yeah it's insane well what happened here [TS]

00:12:03   in Seattle was that we had the world's [TS]

00:12:06   fair in 1963 and 64 huh where they built [TS]

00:12:11   the space needle and they tore down a [TS]

00:12:16   big to in order to build kind of the [TS]

00:12:18   seattle center they tore down a a [TS]

00:12:21   ramshackle neighborhood of flop houses [TS]

00:12:23   and stuff to build that but that wasn't [TS]

00:12:27   that great of a loss but what happened [TS]

00:12:28   was that was exactly the era that was [TS]

00:12:32   kind of the the the peak area of that [TS]

00:12:35   sort of modernist [TS]

00:12:37   23 story flat-roofed apartment building [TS]

00:12:42   where the walkway was there the hallways [TS]

00:12:44   were out side it's the motel [TS]

00:12:47   architecture and what Seattle had was [TS]

00:12:50   that we built this world's fair and [TS]

00:12:53   people were going to come from around [TS]

00:12:54   the world for a whole year we were going [TS]

00:12:56   to have a million people a day here to [TS]

00:12:58   see the seattle center and so there was [TS]

00:13:01   this sweeping redevelopment of the city [TS]

00:13:05   where people went into all those [TS]

00:13:06   Victorian neighborhoods and they said [TS]

00:13:09   well here this whole dish house full of [TS]

00:13:11   you know full of transients even though [TS]

00:13:15   it has nine bedrooms [TS]

00:13:17   we're going to tear this down and we're [TS]

00:13:18   gonna build a kind of motel style [TS]

00:13:21   apartment building that will house these [TS]

00:13:25   visitors from out of state and then [TS]

00:13:29   after those people go it'll be an it'll [TS]

00:13:30   be an apartment building [TS]

00:13:32   won't that be nice we'll have well we'll [TS]

00:13:34   have replaced that dilapidated old house [TS]

00:13:36   with a modern apartment building and so [TS]

00:13:40   throughout the city pretend the most [TS]

00:13:41   interesting neighborhoods we have you'll [TS]

00:13:44   see [TS]

00:13:44   victorian house victorian house [TS]

00:13:46   six-night 1963-64 motel style apartment [TS]

00:13:52   just sandwiched in between them and now [TS]

00:13:58   40 years later when a developer goes [TS]

00:14:02   into that neighborhood and says which [TS]

00:14:03   one of these three things and i'm going [TS]

00:14:05   to buy and teardown they invariably [TS]

00:14:10   choose the Victorian still you know [TS]

00:14:14   because who's going to tear down at nine [TS]

00:14:15   unit apartment building that right you [TS]

00:14:18   know they're still making money off of [TS]

00:14:19   that and so we still so Seattle looks a [TS]

00:14:23   lot worse than portland i have to admit [TS]

00:14:25   because you walk down the street you [TS]

00:14:27   just like there's no plan here there's [TS]

00:14:29   no nothing is governing our development [TS]

00:14:32   except tear the thing down and you are [TS]

00:14:37   obviously you cannot count on the tastes [TS]

00:14:40   of the people who own that property to [TS]

00:14:43   have any interesting integrating our how [TS]

00:14:47   that place looks or works [TS]

00:14:49   you cannot count on [TS]

00:14:50   yeah yeah and this brings a straight [TS]

00:14:52   back to I think one of our greatest [TS]

00:14:53   threads which again this is for new [TS]

00:14:55   listeners something you acquainted me [TS]

00:14:57   with a longer time goes there's a new [TS]

00:14:59   listeners is that heartless monster like [TS]

00:15:02   me [TS]

00:15:03   architectural preservation got it got it [TS]

00:15:05   can I get when you talk about super [TS]

00:15:06   train again beyond only the the you we [TS]

00:15:13   had a conversation once i was actually [TS]

00:15:14   that long ago before the program but you [TS]

00:15:16   for this program started but you you're [TS]

00:15:18   telling me about how you can learn so [TS]

00:15:20   much from a city you know you're a man [TS]

00:15:23   who doesn't pick up a map to go to go [TS]

00:15:25   look around right at you but you can [TS]

00:15:26   learn a lot just from looking at the [TS]

00:15:29   elevations in the city where is the [TS]

00:15:31   waterway oh this is where they put the [TS]

00:15:33   railroad tracks that explains why there [TS]

00:15:35   are the kinds of things around here that [TS]

00:15:37   would be good for railroad industry and [TS]

00:15:38   the people who work there [TS]

00:15:40   here's the waterways that's why they [TS]

00:15:41   probably stopped here is a reason [TS]

00:15:42   Pittsburgh is where it is in case the [TS]

00:15:45   San Francisco for example when they [TS]

00:15:47   added the streetcars and whatever year [TS]

00:15:50   that was that was the first time that [TS]

00:15:52   you could live in the highly developed [TS]

00:15:55   that you can live comfortably and highly [TS]

00:15:57   desirable neighborhoods that are at the [TS]

00:15:59   top of a very steep incline because [TS]

00:16:01   suddenly and you know these are the days [TS]

00:16:02   before you just zip down to the safe way [TS]

00:16:04   to pick up your groceries so having [TS]

00:16:07   something like you know what we have [TS]

00:16:08   left it there the cable cars which are [TS]

00:16:10   very silly and not all that useful but [TS]

00:16:12   back then that was a revelation and in [TS]

00:16:14   and so you can tell for example [TS]

00:16:16   generally living near the water in most [TS]

00:16:19   places you know if it's like an ice [TS]

00:16:21   water is more expensive living higher [TS]

00:16:24   rather than lower is a nice place to [TS]

00:16:26   live and so hey why is it that the [TS]

00:16:28   tornadoes always take out all the mobile [TS]

00:16:29   home so because it's in the most shitty [TS]

00:16:31   low-lying areas where no one want to [TS]

00:16:33   live the floods easily tomato tornado [TS]

00:16:36   alley [TS]

00:16:37   yeah and I mean I think what's funny is [TS]

00:16:39   like that that is you know even with the [TS]

00:16:42   the Internet economy I think that still [TS]

00:16:45   means a lot you know and and to just I [TS]

00:16:48   don't know I can always come back to [TS]

00:16:49   Tallahassee where I lived for 10 years [TS]

00:16:51   and Florida State University the old [TS]

00:16:53   buildings there are so beautiful [TS]

00:16:55   the old and but they all are you can [TS]

00:17:00   tell when the place was initially built [TS]

00:17:03   it's just beautiful classy like I don't [TS]

00:17:05   know the style of architecture is but I [TS]

00:17:07   don't know the name for but it was in [TS]

00:17:08   the eighteen hundreds i think in early [TS]

00:17:10   nineteen hundreds so there's a burst of [TS]

00:17:11   money at that time and they built the [TS]

00:17:13   women's college of florida or whatever [TS]

00:17:15   it was called and then you can just tell [TS]

00:17:18   there were burst of influxes of money [TS]

00:17:20   probably old people dying wanting their [TS]

00:17:22   name on something and there's this [TS]

00:17:23   hodgepodge of different buildings that [TS]

00:17:26   went up in fifties through the eighties [TS]

00:17:27   right all of them science building all [TS]

00:17:31   of them like wildly different with only [TS]

00:17:35   the most superficial nod start having [TS]

00:17:38   any kind of continuity with how the rest [TS]

00:17:40   of the place looks and and some of them [TS]

00:17:41   have that I I'm trying to figure out if [TS]

00:17:44   i want to blame this one guy corbusier [TS]

00:17:46   you have basically invented square [TS]

00:17:48   cement buildings and and made made every [TS]

00:17:51   you know mall and apartment buildings [TS]

00:17:52   and skyscrapers look the same John [TS]

00:17:54   Flansburg is so mad right now [TS]

00:17:56   why he loves these things well he's just [TS]

00:17:58   going to be probably yell at us for a [TS]

00:17:59   thousand reasons about talking about [TS]

00:18:01   Lucien but I was here Kordofan who knows [TS]

00:18:04   ok but you know yeah you know it's like [TS]

00:18:07   the bart station for example I every [TS]

00:18:09   time there's a part station I feel like [TS]

00:18:10   it looks like something from Planet of [TS]

00:18:11   the Apes Logan's Run Logan's Run yeah [TS]

00:18:14   yeah but everything you know and I'm [TS]

00:18:16   sorry not sure I'm going with this but [TS]

00:18:17   there's a funny confluence of in the [TS]

00:18:19   nineteen sixties in particular I pulling [TS]

00:18:21   this completely out of my ass [TS]

00:18:22   there was so much money for things like [TS]

00:18:24   education building so much more by the [TS]

00:18:26   late sixties in there had been a metric [TS]

00:18:28   is that correct to say that there was a [TS]

00:18:30   lot of new building and they were [TS]

00:18:31   obviously you know after the GI Bill you [TS]

00:18:33   people want to go to college and their [TS]

00:18:35   kids want to go to college was all this [TS]

00:18:36   building and is this like pseudo perfect [TS]

00:18:39   storm of money wanting the desire to [TS]

00:18:42   build a lot quickly and cheaply and the [TS]

00:18:44   influence of the square concrete [TS]

00:18:47   buildings that are now everywhere [TS]

00:18:49   well there's where concrete buildings [TS]

00:18:50   after the war were were honestly thought [TS]

00:18:54   there was a moral component to them in [TS]

00:18:58   people's imaginations like these were [TS]

00:19:00   clean it with open they were not these [TS]

00:19:05   you know sticking bone little rat holes [TS]

00:19:08   that a of you know victorian houses that [TS]

00:19:12   at that time were [TS]

00:19:13   60 years old and full of dust and mice [TS]

00:19:18   you know these were this was a these [TS]

00:19:21   buildings represented to people at the [TS]

00:19:22   time the future we we had fought a war [TS]

00:19:25   and we were we were going to build a new [TS]

00:19:29   world that look they're growing their [TS]

00:19:32   clean and they were modern and they did [TS]

00:19:35   not look like the kind of locations that [TS]

00:19:38   you would see that had been bombed [TS]

00:19:40   recently [TS]

00:19:40   yeah these were exciting like american [TS]

00:19:42   buildings and am airport terminal [TS]

00:19:44   terminals and like exciting places for [TS]

00:19:48   people and my mom talks about it all the [TS]

00:19:50   time like the idea that you would have a [TS]

00:19:51   house where all the bedrooms were on the [TS]

00:19:54   same floor as the living room and the [TS]

00:19:56   kitchen was a radical notion and very [TS]

00:20:00   exciting one where you would open a [TS]

00:20:02   sliding glass door and step right from [TS]

00:20:05   your living room into the garden without [TS]

00:20:06   there being a stair-step you know all [TS]

00:20:09   these designs that we think of as [TS]

00:20:11   mid-century modern and and and kind of [TS]

00:20:15   you know like tract houses to their I [TS]

00:20:19   all these little details were were [TS]

00:20:22   incredible innovations and incredible [TS]

00:20:24   like almost I mean definitely like moral [TS]

00:20:28   technologies this is this is the way [TS]

00:20:31   people should live we now have the [TS]

00:20:32   technology to live with ease in these [TS]

00:20:37   custom homes and it's and we're never [TS]

00:20:40   going back to this tube to the bay [TS]

00:20:43   windows with the curved glass and it did [TS]

00:20:47   this I don't look they don't look very [TS]

00:20:49   space-age at a time when that kind of [TS]

00:20:51   modernity and that kind of with what is [TS]

00:20:53   called popular luxe style what was [TS]

00:20:56   coming and if you were going to go out [TS]

00:20:58   and you were mike brady and want to [TS]

00:21:00   interrupt water or an architect that [TS]

00:21:02   wanted a cool-looking you know house you [TS]

00:21:04   know you weren't going to make it in the [TS]

00:21:05   chicago-style em right that'd be awesome [TS]

00:21:10   I was alone a chicago-style house but [TS]

00:21:13   you know you look around you look around [TS]

00:21:15   your city and you learn you can see this [TS]

00:21:18   you can see people's more moral tastes [TS]

00:21:21   reflected in the in the physicality of [TS]

00:21:24   your town in a way that doesn't really [TS]

00:21:27   require that much imagination like you [TS]

00:21:29   just have to see it you just have to [TS]

00:21:31   turn your eyes that way that Seattle has [TS]

00:21:33   a neighborhood called wallingford which [TS]

00:21:35   is perched on a on a long broad sloping [TS]

00:21:39   hill that overlooks lake union which is [TS]

00:21:43   the lake at this very heart of the city [TS]

00:21:45   and then across Lake Union there's a [TS]

00:21:48   panoramic view of downtown queen anne [TS]

00:21:52   hill and and capitol hill so it's this [TS]

00:21:56   it's this beautiful neighborhood of [TS]

00:21:58   bungalows on this wide broad sloping [TS]

00:22:01   hill overlooking a lake and the rest of [TS]

00:22:02   the city but when you go there you [TS]

00:22:06   realize very quickly that the streets [TS]

00:22:09   are laid out wrong [TS]

00:22:13   the streets are a hundred percent wrong [TS]

00:22:16   they are laid out so that the bungalows [TS]

00:22:20   go so the long avenues actually go up [TS]

00:22:24   and down the hill right long avenues are [TS]

00:22:27   pointed at the view and the houses there [TS]

00:22:30   are there are 50,000 houses in this [TS]

00:22:33   neighborhood and almost none of them [TS]

00:22:36   have a view of this lake and this [TS]

00:22:39   panorama of the city they they look on [TS]

00:22:43   each other's backyards and in order to [TS]

00:22:45   get in order to get the view either have [TS]

00:22:47   to go stand on the roof or you have to [TS]

00:22:49   go out into the middle of the street and [TS]

00:22:50   look down the hill and for the longest [TS]

00:22:53   and so when you're in wallingford [TS]

00:22:55   there's something about it that just [TS]

00:22:57   kind of feels wrong you're conscious of [TS]

00:22:59   the city being right there and of this [TS]

00:23:01   lake and you know every night these [TS]

00:23:03   incredible sunsets but the neighborhood [TS]

00:23:06   just kind of looks at itself and then [TS]

00:23:09   you realize that at the foot of that [TS]

00:23:12   Hill is a thing we call gasworks Park [TS]

00:23:15   which is this this gym in the crown of [TS]

00:23:18   the city this beautiful park with an old [TS]

00:23:22   gasworks where they used to make these [TS]

00:23:26   the process natural gas there and you [TS]

00:23:30   realize when they built this [TS]

00:23:31   neighborhood of wallingford that view [TS]

00:23:33   down on the lake would have been a view [TS]

00:23:36   over a chemical plant for food into into [TS]

00:23:40   a lake that was full of steamships all [TS]

00:23:43   emptying their bilges at sunset [TS]

00:23:45   you know there was nothing about that [TS]

00:23:47   view that view was something that [TS]

00:23:49   whoever was developing the neighborhood [TS]

00:23:51   that view is something they wanted to [TS]

00:23:52   conceal uh-huh [TS]

00:23:54   because when the wind changed direction [TS]

00:23:55   all of wallingford was coated with a [TS]

00:23:58   layer of chemical ash and so for the [TS]

00:24:03   rest of eternity in seattle like we've [TS]

00:24:06   cleaned up the city that that view right [TS]

00:24:08   now is it is a 10 trillion dollar view [TS]

00:24:10   but that neighborhood is always going to [TS]

00:24:12   be pointed the wrong direction because [TS]

00:24:14   at the time of you didn't matter to [TS]

00:24:17   people what mattered was you know that [TS]

00:24:21   you turn your back to the chemical plant [TS]

00:24:24   and you know that's so whenever I'm over [TS]

00:24:28   there I'm always like kind of haunted by [TS]

00:24:30   the haunted by the century I guess so [TS]

00:24:34   that the things the things that people [TS]

00:24:37   are interested in the people could [TS]

00:24:39   afford that people cared about the [TS]

00:24:40   people live with end up having an impact [TS]

00:24:43   long beyond the time that decision was [TS]

00:24:45   made [TS]

00:24:46   yeah forever and ever i mean there that [TS]

00:24:47   were there redeveloping London all the [TS]

00:24:50   time and a lot of you know what if you [TS]

00:24:54   tear something down in the center of [TS]

00:24:55   London [TS]

00:24:57   that was there for 700 years to build [TS]

00:25:02   something new and my opinion you'd [TS]

00:25:05   better really have a lot of faith that [TS]

00:25:07   the thing you're building now is gonna [TS]

00:25:10   is better than something that survived [TS]

00:25:12   seven hundred years and that isn't you [TS]

00:25:15   know I don't think people think that way [TS]

00:25:17   and I don't down i don't remember the [TS]

00:25:19   details of this so forgive me if I get [TS]

00:25:21   some of this wrong but I think it might [TS]

00:25:22   even them out before the earthquake here [TS]

00:25:26   I think all i know is at some point [TS]

00:25:28   somebody I don't think is Olmsted but [TS]

00:25:30   somebody had come up with a plan for the [TS]

00:25:32   city as it grew that was going to be [TS]

00:25:35   vastly different from what they come up [TS]

00:25:36   with because the first thing that you [TS]

00:25:39   notice in San Francisco that doesn't [TS]

00:25:42   seem really stupid from the air but [TS]

00:25:45   seems real stupid on the ground is what [TS]

00:25:47   you described which is there's there's [TS]

00:25:49   no reason that California Street needs [TS]

00:25:52   to be that steep there's no there's no [TS]

00:25:53   real on the face of it like it's crazy [TS]

00:25:55   to build the street straight its [TS]

00:25:58   straight go straight to the side of a [TS]

00:26:00   hill [TS]

00:26:00   yeah my senses remember correctly that [TS]

00:26:02   there was a plan especially for the [TS]

00:26:04   Western neighborhoods like where I live [TS]

00:26:06   not right live was was a was basically [TS]

00:26:09   just you know on it there was not a lot [TS]

00:26:12   out here i think there was a nursing [TS]

00:26:13   school and maybe an abattoir there was [TS]

00:26:15   not a lot in my neighborhood was just [TS]

00:26:16   sayin Sam zooms right yeah yeah that's a [TS]

00:26:18   wonderful photos that you have my [TS]

00:26:20   neighborhood were looking down from you [TS]

00:26:23   know the kind of the top of the hill on [TS]

00:26:24   what's like 19th Avenue now where [TS]

00:26:26   there's I think there was chicken farms [TS]

00:26:27   was the main thing out here and i live [TS]

00:26:29   in a chicken farm [TS]

00:26:30   nothing wrong with that okay chicken [TS]

00:26:32   farms heritage chickens nothing wrong [TS]

00:26:33   with that but anyway but some some some [TS]

00:26:36   some due to come up with a plan saying [TS]

00:26:38   hey why don't we can build these new [TS]

00:26:40   roads in a way that goes around these [TS]

00:26:42   hills in a way that's a little more [TS]

00:26:43   humane on towards with the with the [TS]

00:26:45   ground and i want to say that it was the [TS]

00:26:47   earthquake in particular that they I [TS]

00:26:49   guess they need to rebuild quickly i'm [TS]

00:26:50   talking out of my ass again but the [TS]

00:26:52   point the point of the story is that now [TS]

00:26:53   today you know you can go out and buy a [TS]

00:26:55   bike and walking map of San Francisco [TS]

00:26:57   this fascinating already seen this but [TS]

00:27:00   and I enjoy a map that there's a great [TS]

00:27:02   you go and pick this up anywhere and it [TS]

00:27:04   will show you the city right a regular [TS]

00:27:06   old road map of the city but [TS]

00:27:08   every block between any two [TS]

00:27:12   intersections anywhere in San Francisco [TS]

00:27:14   gets like the Jesus Seminar card [TS]

00:27:17   cartography it shows you four different [TS]

00:27:19   colors to show you how steep the hill is [TS]

00:27:22   just between those two interceptions on [TS]

00:27:25   my block you can go and see I'm on they [TS]

00:27:28   come on like the second or third looking [TS]

00:27:30   to get a light pink getting darker place [TS]

00:27:32   a light red and a dark red [TS]

00:27:34   mm you know what I mean yeah and so this [TS]

00:27:36   is so if you're on a bike [TS]

00:27:38   luckily the bike routes that exists now [TS]

00:27:39   you know take advantage of the for [TS]

00:27:42   example 20th avenue you can use the [TS]

00:27:43   exact you're saying fuck attack [TS]

00:27:45   yeah but for example 20th avenue is the [TS]

00:27:48   longest contiguous north-south route in [TS]

00:27:52   my part of town that has the least he'll [TS]

00:27:55   pound for pound you've been on my street [TS]

00:27:57   I mean I'm out of breath when I walk [TS]

00:27:58   from my office uphill in three minutes [TS]

00:28:01   yes people very very very steep but you [TS]

00:28:03   know it is it's kind of funny how you [TS]

00:28:06   know you described with London for [TS]

00:28:08   example how you know who knows this [TS]

00:28:10   might have been a bad place to have a [TS]

00:28:12   house because this is where people [TS]

00:28:13   through their chamber pots out the [TS]

00:28:14   window [TS]

00:28:15   you know what i mean and and in the [TS]

00:28:17   fullness of time that that changes so no [TS]

00:28:19   all it takes all up for five over the [TS]

00:28:21   course of five hundred years [TS]

00:28:23   all it takes is a few people who live [TS]

00:28:28   long lives and live in the same house [TS]

00:28:30   their whole lives to affect the course [TS]

00:28:35   of development right there's that house [TS]

00:28:37   here in seattle where the the the [TS]

00:28:41   property developers had other they [TS]

00:28:43   bought the entire block except for this [TS]

00:28:45   one [TS]

00:28:46   one bedroom bungalow literally like the [TS]

00:28:48   smallest house you could you could [TS]

00:28:50   possibly build there was just this one [TS]

00:28:53   bungalow left on an enormous block in [TS]

00:28:56   ballard and the developers wanted to [TS]

00:28:59   build a super building that had a whole [TS]

00:29:03   foods in it and I'm sure it was going to [TS]

00:29:05   be very green don't know it had AI had a [TS]

00:29:08   trader joes in it and then it was gonna [TS]

00:29:10   be great construction and full of [TS]

00:29:12   architects offices [TS]

00:29:15   and this one little bungalow was owned [TS]

00:29:17   by a little old lady and her husband had [TS]

00:29:19   built it and she and died many years ago [TS]

00:29:22   and she still lived in this one better [TS]

00:29:24   place and she wouldn't sell and they [TS]

00:29:27   offered her a million dollars and she [TS]

00:29:29   wouldn't sell and so they built their [TS]

00:29:32   massive trader joes architect building [TS]

00:29:37   around her house and her house still [TS]

00:29:41   bright like it up they they built an [TS]

00:29:43   entire thing around this little yeah [TS]

00:29:44   it's around this little house the the [TS]

00:29:46   building but the new building that they [TS]

00:29:48   built his four five stories tall and [TS]

00:29:51   this little teeny house sits in [TS]

00:29:54   basically a canyon that is three feet [TS]

00:29:58   wide on either side and three feet [TS]

00:30:01   behind it it's basically like an air [TS]

00:30:05   shaft where this houses and she just [TS]

00:30:09   wouldn't you know she wouldn't sell [TS]

00:30:11   myself fuck you and the story is more [TS]

00:30:13   hilarious because it wasn't a year or [TS]

00:30:17   two later that she finally died of old [TS]

00:30:19   age and she will do her house to one of [TS]

00:30:23   the construction dudes who brought her a [TS]

00:30:25   sandwich every day turns out [TS]

00:30:28   yeah that's awesome so but but if you [TS]

00:30:31   talk about someplace in England you know [TS]

00:30:33   all it all it took was a family just to [TS]

00:30:36   to keep that house in their own hands [TS]

00:30:39   for a couple hundred years and you know [TS]

00:30:41   kind of pass it down a few people to [TS]

00:30:44   live live long lives and live in this [TS]

00:30:47   one place and all of a sudden this this [TS]

00:30:49   house has been protected from [TS]

00:30:50   development just by the fact that either [TS]

00:30:53   the family what was not up upwardly [TS]

00:30:58   mobile enough to ever leave it or just [TS]

00:31:01   sort of tradition bound and now this [TS]

00:31:04   thing survives and were like wow it's [TS]

00:31:05   amazing how did this thing make it all [TS]

00:31:07   these years and it's like well actually [TS]

00:31:08   500 years is just what we talked about [TS]

00:31:11   over eight generations [TS]

00:31:14   I mean that's not that's not outrageous [TS]

00:31:16   to think that that everyone's while the [TS]

00:31:20   house is actually passed down that many [TS]

00:31:22   times [TS]

00:31:23   well you know in in Florida that's [TS]

00:31:25   several lifetimes [TS]

00:31:27   you know there is the thing that always [TS]

00:31:29   strikes me is and this is just my own [TS]

00:31:32   heuristic but it seems to me that the [TS]

00:31:34   more content modern the more [TS]

00:31:36   contemporary you want to make a new [TS]

00:31:39   building look the more likely it is that [TS]

00:31:41   it will look extremely uncontested in 10 [TS]

00:31:44   to 20 years not even time for years [TS]

00:31:47   well like yeah like yeah I that building [TS]

00:31:50   was built in 2004 I recognize the shade [TS]

00:31:53   of mob a vinyl siding you know like [TS]

00:31:57   building our dated instantly yeah i [TS]

00:32:02   think i'm feeling funny cuz i think we [TS]

00:32:04   talked about this a long time ago [TS]

00:32:05   thousand but i think we yeah I know we [TS]

00:32:09   talked about because the wet cellos that [TS]

00:32:11   ya feeling funny though because you have [TS]

00:32:14   this funny feeling I do have a funny [TS]

00:32:16   feeling the mosque building at Madison [TS]

00:32:18   is singing the link for this we know we [TS]

00:32:20   talked about this once before this [TS]

00:32:21   example of brutalist architecture and [TS]

00:32:24   where the first floor of the building [TS]

00:32:25   has like a ramp so that they can like [TS]

00:32:29   basically you turn the hose on on snakes [TS]

00:32:32   that are trying to rush the building the [TS]

00:32:33   writers yeah yeah and of course it's [TS]

00:32:36   just so hard we talked about this but [TS]

00:32:37   it's so horribly designed and [TS]

00:32:40   constructed where the music department [TS]

00:32:42   just to reiterate the music department [TS]

00:32:43   is in the basement where everything is [TS]

00:32:45   is wilting so you know it's but here's [TS]

00:32:49   another one i remember is in the [TS]

00:32:50   mid-eighties I guess there was you know [TS]

00:32:53   it's once again how about what they say [TS]

00:32:54   when they open a starbucks turns out [TS]

00:32:56   that that starbucks makes a lot of money [TS]

00:32:59   and the other starbucks don't [TS]

00:33:00   necessarily make less money it's just [TS]

00:33:02   really really strange phenomenon at [TS]

00:33:04   which sounds like a little bit like a [TS]

00:33:05   pyramid scheme to me but that's how was [TS]

00:33:06   in florida in the mid-eighties early to [TS]

00:33:08   mid eighties there was a sudden influx [TS]

00:33:10   of money for new construction i think it [TS]

00:33:12   probably had to do with financing [TS]

00:33:14   certain kind of attractive financing but [TS]

00:33:16   suddenly people were putting up strip [TS]

00:33:19   malls where they're just didn't need to [TS]

00:33:21   be another strip mall [TS]

00:33:22   it just it was it was unnecessary and [TS]

00:33:26   then all these places suddenly [TS]

00:33:27   everything had an awning [TS]

00:33:29   yeah and or an atrium well this is this [TS]

00:33:31   economic alchemy that people talk about [TS]

00:33:34   when they talk about job creation and [TS]

00:33:37   they talk about lowering the taxes [TS]

00:33:39   and trickle-down economics and all this [TS]

00:33:42   you know you you create what in [TS]

00:33:45   conservative thinking is this with this [TS]

00:33:48   sort of a ideal magical set of [TS]

00:33:51   circumstances where the business climate [TS]

00:33:54   is friendly for to development and all [TS]

00:33:57   of a sudden it's like a Genesis bomb of [TS]

00:34:00   capitalism and these you know these [TS]

00:34:04   economically stagnant areas become [TS]

00:34:07   economically vibrant and that is that is [TS]

00:34:10   the you know that is the the whole truth [TS]

00:34:14   of of conservatism of the magical [TS]

00:34:16   thinking of it it's just like look at [TS]

00:34:18   what happened but that mentality does [TS]

00:34:22   not take any kind of super long view on [TS]

00:34:26   development and they'll point to your [TS]

00:34:27   neighborhood in florida and saying you [TS]

00:34:30   know development swept into this area [TS]

00:34:33   and transformed it the tax base was [TS]

00:34:36   suddenly elevated everybody was making [TS]

00:34:38   more money the city was making more [TS]

00:34:39   money this is what happens when you [TS]

00:34:41   lower regulation and you reduce taxes [TS]

00:34:45   and you make this can make a place but [TS]

00:34:49   what they don't factor in and what is [TS]

00:34:52   completely irrelevant to their thinking [TS]

00:34:54   is what is in there what is that exactly [TS]

00:34:58   you know it's nail salons and it's you [TS]

00:35:02   know temporary businesses it's a new [TS]

00:35:03   Starbucks across the street from the old [TS]

00:35:05   starbucks and somehow they're both [TS]

00:35:06   making money it is this kind of like [TS]

00:35:10   magical place where economics is where [TS]

00:35:14   you know where capitalism is happening [TS]

00:35:17   but is that area improving people's [TS]

00:35:20   lives really 20 years from now is that [TS]

00:35:22   area is still going to be economically [TS]

00:35:23   vibrant really is there any reason for [TS]

00:35:26   it to be there you know when you look at [TS]

00:35:28   the land and you say oh there used to be [TS]

00:35:31   a stream hill stream here and there that [TS]

00:35:33   and so there was a mill here and that's [TS]

00:35:36   why this street is called Mill Street [TS]

00:35:38   and that's why this neighborhood is [TS]

00:35:39   called milltown and I see why [TS]

00:35:43   development happened here and I see why [TS]

00:35:45   these are warehouses instead of homes [TS]

00:35:48   and I you know and I see like and then [TS]

00:35:51   fell on hard times when the mill closed [TS]

00:35:53   because there wasn't there was new [TS]

00:35:54   milling technology that was happening [TS]

00:35:57   somewhere else they didn't need a [TS]

00:35:58   running stream you know etcetera you see [TS]

00:36:00   you see development through the lens of [TS]

00:36:03   history but then you go out into the [TS]

00:36:04   into the flats where it's like they [TS]

00:36:07   built a mall here because property was [TS]

00:36:12   cheap and taxes were low and then again [TS]

00:36:17   creating certain conditions the [TS]

00:36:18   conditions were were were right for [TS]

00:36:20   somebody who is smart to take advantage [TS]

00:36:22   of all these seemingly unrelated things [TS]

00:36:24   to make something nobody necessarily [TS]

00:36:26   needed but what's good for them right [TS]

00:36:28   but but as you say conditions are in a [TS]

00:36:31   way analogous to like oh there used to [TS]

00:36:33   be a river here so they built a mill oh [TS]

00:36:34   this is flat swampy land that they could [TS]

00:36:37   fill easily and so they built a mall [TS]

00:36:39   like that they're there is a there's a [TS]

00:36:42   continuity but but in the in the same [TS]

00:36:46   way like that land that there's another [TS]

00:36:48   way of looking at which was that was [TS]

00:36:50   swampy worthless land before and it's [TS]

00:36:52   swampy worthless line now nobody is [TS]

00:36:55   going to go this is that it's got an [TS]

00:36:57   orange julius now [TS]

00:36:58   yeah it has you've built a strip mall on [TS]

00:36:59   it but it is a kind of it is a false [TS]

00:37:02   paradigm of economics where where money [TS]

00:37:08   sleeps in and transforms a neighborhood [TS]

00:37:10   and then economist move on in their [TS]

00:37:13   thinking and they're like let's go [TS]

00:37:15   somewhere else and have capitalism [TS]

00:37:16   transforming area but what they've left [TS]

00:37:20   behind is this thing that is going to [TS]

00:37:23   percolate along for a few years and then [TS]

00:37:26   the lack of reason for it to be there [TS]

00:37:29   was the lack of soul is going to [TS]

00:37:32   manifest itself and and all the low [TS]

00:37:36   taxes in the world aren't going to [TS]

00:37:37   motivate people to go there because [TS]

00:37:39   there's no because it's a false thing [TS]

00:37:42   it's a you know it's a it's an orlando [TS]

00:37:47   and I mean people are still going to [TS]

00:37:51   orlando but you know is or like its [TS]

00:37:56   course Lando is our limit maybe Orlando [TS]

00:37:59   will be there in five hundred you [TS]

00:38:01   but it's also there's also a myopia it [TS]

00:38:03   seems to me this is this is true of [TS]

00:38:05   people all over the spectrum politically [TS]

00:38:09   but you know there's it'sit's funny idea [TS]

00:38:13   of cause and effect where you can say [TS]

00:38:15   something that is accurate as a true you [TS]

00:38:19   can see something is accurate which is [TS]

00:38:20   you can say you know this sector of the [TS]

00:38:22   economy has created the greatest [TS]

00:38:25   percentage of jobs in the last 15 years [TS]

00:38:30   and you could say something anybody [TS]

00:38:32   could you could look at the actual [TS]

00:38:33   untampered data and say that is [TS]

00:38:35   absolutely true and yet make a decision [TS]

00:38:38   based on that that will have absolutely [TS]

00:38:40   there's absolutely no Karen t let alone [TS]

00:38:44   logic that making a decision based on [TS]

00:38:46   that will reveal the same result [TS]

00:38:48   specifically you could say for example [TS]

00:38:50   you know small businesses have created [TS]

00:38:52   the greatest number of jobs over the [TS]

00:38:54   last 15 years [TS]

00:38:55   ok so logically then if you did the [TS]

00:38:57   syllogism if we give lots of money tax [TS]

00:39:00   breaks or incentives to small business [TS]

00:39:03   then lots more jobs should happen and i [TS]

00:39:04   just think that's not how that works i'm [TS]

00:39:06   not saying don't give money to people [TS]

00:39:07   but i'm saying it's such a simplistic [TS]

00:39:09   view of things and you know i don't know [TS]

00:39:11   if it's going to take a super train to [TS]

00:39:13   help people understand how this stuff [TS]

00:39:14   needs to be integrated but my senses [TS]

00:39:16   when you give anybody money they will [TS]

00:39:18   try to spend it on things that benefit [TS]

00:39:20   them they're not interested in your [TS]

00:39:22   conclusions about why that money was a [TS]

00:39:24   good idea money the liquidity of money [TS]

00:39:27   is what allows people to do anything [TS]

00:39:28   with it they could they could spend that [TS]

00:39:30   on you know on on rim jobs and dr.pepper [TS]

00:39:33   you know we're not on Jason from here [TS]

00:39:35   okay i didn't know the dr pepper man [TS]

00:39:38   haha well but that as you say I mean the [TS]

00:39:42   central first of all is that I mean this [TS]

00:39:43   doesn't make any sense when you talk [TS]

00:39:45   about I don't get into the politics of [TS]

00:39:46   this but that I think this is at a [TS]

00:39:49   higher level this is a really really big [TS]

00:39:51   problem unless you're going to do [TS]

00:39:53   something as sweeping as the new deal [TS]

00:39:54   where we basically all agree there are [TS]

00:39:56   some great things that were will be [TS]

00:39:57   built and other things where we just [TS]

00:39:58   need to get money to people and get them [TS]

00:40:00   back to work in a way that will make [TS]

00:40:04   them more dignified and part of the body [TS]

00:40:06   politic again and we'll keep the unions [TS]

00:40:08   from revolting [TS]

00:40:10   did you think I I feel like that and we [TS]

00:40:13   have demonized big government in [TS]

00:40:15   people's minds so much because the [TS]

00:40:17   because what big government represents [TS]

00:40:19   two people is that some bureaucrat is [TS]

00:40:22   going to tell you that you have to hire [TS]

00:40:24   people of a race that you don't admire [TS]

00:40:27   you know like big government to most [TS]

00:40:30   people in America is it is a simple 121 [TS]

00:40:33   like you're taking my tax dollars and [TS]

00:40:35   then telling me that my kids have to go [TS]

00:40:38   to school in the worst school in town in [TS]

00:40:41   order to make up for some disadvantage [TS]

00:40:45   that minority kids have their orders [TS]

00:40:48   practical level you have to go hire [TS]

00:40:50   people whether it of any quality where [TS]

00:40:53   people of that particular quality that [TS]

00:40:55   you want to give jobs to there's just [TS]

00:40:57   simply and not not enough people with [TS]

00:40:59   that genetic component that are doing [TS]

00:41:01   what we do we want you we want you to [TS]

00:41:03   hire more physics experts and they [TS]

00:41:08   should be they should be black women or [TS]

00:41:12   they should well first of all let's look [TS]

00:41:13   at how many black women are physicists [TS]

00:41:14   right now [TS]

00:41:15   well that might be a different problem [TS]

00:41:16   to solve yeah yeah but it is that social [TS]

00:41:20   engineering component [TS]

00:41:22   however it manifests itself that freaks [TS]

00:41:24   people out that that big government [TS]

00:41:27   particularly in the hands of liberals [TS]

00:41:29   for the last 50 years has engaged in a [TS]

00:41:31   kind of social engineering experiment [TS]

00:41:34   nationwide in a thousand different ways [TS]

00:41:36   and that is the thing that Paul's people [TS]

00:41:39   in basically anywhere outside of San [TS]

00:41:42   Francisco New York LA chicago and [TS]

00:41:44   seattle and well leaving aside whether [TS]

00:41:50   that social engineering experiment has [TS]

00:41:53   merit or is successful that what has [TS]

00:41:56   what has been you know the the baby [TS]

00:41:59   that's been taught tossed out with the [TS]

00:42:00   bathwater there is the idea that there [TS]

00:42:06   would be any organizing principle to the [TS]

00:42:08   way we approach the the development of [TS]

00:42:12   america and you know we built the [TS]

00:42:14   interstate highway system in it and it [TS]

00:42:17   was eisenhower that did it in an [TS]

00:42:19   absolutely socialistic fashion you know [TS]

00:42:22   Eisenhower said we are [TS]

00:42:23   to use eminent domain to go to all of [TS]

00:42:27   the states in the nation and just take [TS]

00:42:29   away land from people and employ [TS]

00:42:33   thousands and thousands of people with [TS]

00:42:36   this disease can be super highways if we [TS]

00:42:38   take that San Francisco the do we never [TS]

00:42:41   see if these curve too much they're [TS]

00:42:42   they're not even gonna be highways let [TS]

00:42:44   me just gonna go although when they were [TS]

00:42:46   building the interstate highways they [TS]

00:42:47   found the the Pennsylvania Turnpike or [TS]

00:42:50   the ohio turnpike one of the two one of [TS]

00:42:52   the first ones that built they built it [TS]

00:42:54   two straight huh [TS]

00:42:57   and people that was just straight for [TS]

00:42:58   200 miles and people fell asleep and [TS]

00:43:02   drive their cars off the road turns out [TS]

00:43:04   and there's a good as they were [TS]

00:43:06   developing the interstate highway system [TS]

00:43:08   they realize that they had to [TS]

00:43:09   manufacture big sweeping curves in the [TS]

00:43:14   roads where there's no reason for it in [TS]

00:43:17   order to keep people's attention for [TS]

00:43:20   enough that they don't crash so that's [TS]

00:43:22   when you drive the highways it's very [TS]

00:43:24   rare except in places like Montana or [TS]

00:43:26   Texas it's very rare that you'll see [TS]

00:43:28   just straight interrupt an interrupted [TS]

00:43:31   right straight for 400 miles you know it [TS]

00:43:34   uh it doesn't happen because they built [TS]

00:43:36   the engineered it took to kind of wind [TS]

00:43:38   its way but anyway what's up [TS]

00:43:40   so what you were talking about which is [TS]

00:43:42   that if you say building like the [TS]

00:43:47   builders are that is a booming sector of [TS]

00:43:52   the economy you and we're not going to [TS]

00:43:54   regulate it because government [TS]

00:43:55   regulation is bad you get places like [TS]

00:43:59   all of florida and nevada where they [TS]

00:44:03   build five houses for every person in [TS]

00:44:06   the town and it's because every one of [TS]

00:44:09   these builders acting independently says [TS]

00:44:12   I gotta get on this train and there's [TS]

00:44:14   nobody at the government level approving [TS]

00:44:17   business permits approving building [TS]

00:44:19   permits who's saying hold on [TS]

00:44:21   do we need [TS]

00:44:24   600 new McMansions in this area is their [TS]

00:44:28   demand for it is there [TS]

00:44:29   can this town support everybody just [TS]

00:44:33   like well government's got to get out of [TS]

00:44:34   the way because here we come small [TS]

00:44:36   business owners you know small business [TS]

00:44:38   owners have the moral imperative and [TS]

00:44:40   there's no you know this is the thing [TS]

00:44:42   that terrifies libertarians is they [TS]

00:44:44   imagine some some wizard of oz [TS]

00:44:48   bureaucrat sitting behind a curtain [TS]

00:44:51   approving or not approving their [TS]

00:44:54   building permits to put a new bunker on [TS]

00:44:58   their 25 acres and they feel like that [TS]

00:45:01   is that is government intrusion that is [TS]

00:45:04   that is police state ism but if you [TS]

00:45:07   don't have somebody sitting there with a [TS]

00:45:10   rubber stamp saying I'm not approving [TS]

00:45:12   any more building permits for this part [TS]

00:45:14   of the town because because I'm the only [TS]

00:45:18   person in a position to see that we have [TS]

00:45:20   too many houses right now being built [TS]

00:45:23   like we need to put the brakes on this [TS]

00:45:25   then you get these you get this [TS]

00:45:27   development that just goes just wipes up [TS]

00:45:30   the side of a mountain and you've got [TS]

00:45:32   these houses sitting up there and any [TS]

00:45:33   dummy can look at and go [TS]

00:45:35   no one's ever gonna live there like what [TS]

00:45:37   if you get the epilogue in Florida where [TS]

00:45:40   I live so so i was living in that area [TS]

00:45:42   in the mid eighties when I came back [TS]

00:45:43   after college when the economy was in [TS]

00:45:45   the shitter guess what you had you had a [TS]

00:45:47   bunch of uncompleted strip malls yet you [TS]

00:45:49   had that one mall the easy haha what is [TS]

00:45:54   it is a chris rock that says it's all [TS]

00:45:56   like baby clothes you know and greeting [TS]

00:45:58   cards or whatever its but its true like [TS]

00:45:59   that one mall that was barely hanging on [TS]

00:46:01   is gone and now it's you know that [TS]

00:46:03   eventually I think everything what when [TS]

00:46:06   things we stretching more farmers [TS]

00:46:08   markets and and flea markets in places [TS]

00:46:11   that used to be retail stores i think [TS]

00:46:13   that's a pretty good sign that something [TS]

00:46:15   went a little off [TS]

00:46:16   yeah and the solution in most cases the [TS]

00:46:19   the BM the raw capitalist solution to [TS]

00:46:23   that is to go build another strip mall [TS]

00:46:25   in a newer neighborhood you know it is [TS]

00:46:27   not to repurpose that old strip mall [TS]

00:46:31   that's now full of RC modeler stores [TS]

00:46:35   you know it is not to tear down the [TS]

00:46:38   shitty motel style apartment building [TS]

00:46:42   and build build something new there [TS]

00:46:44   rather than tear down the Victorian you [TS]

00:46:47   know the solution is always go build [TS]

00:46:50   another one somewhere else and try and [TS]

00:46:52   you know trying to light the gasoline [TS]

00:46:55   over there so it's going to burn real [TS]

00:46:58   hot and we're going to think we're [TS]

00:47:00   making money we're generating money over [TS]

00:47:01   there and there's just there's no [TS]

00:47:03   collective memory of all these about [TS]

00:47:07   this trail of strip malls it's like them [TS]

00:47:10   it's like the islands of Hawaii if you [TS]

00:47:13   look at Hawaii the reason it looks like [TS]

00:47:15   a like a dragon's tail is that there's a [TS]

00:47:20   hot spot under the ocean and over the [TS]

00:47:24   course of millennia you know the the way [TS]

00:47:28   the shifting crusts under the ocean have [TS]

00:47:32   moved they haven't they moved along this [TS]

00:47:37   hotspot and the hotspot keeps producing [TS]

00:47:38   islands and then the islands move on the [TS]

00:47:41   crust in the wake of this burning you [TS]

00:47:46   know this is burning hole and that [TS]

00:47:50   agenda done yet this is all new to me [TS]

00:47:52   yeah that's true of economic development [TS]

00:47:53   to the the burning hole keeps moving in [TS]

00:47:56   its wake [TS]

00:47:57   are these nail salons and RC modeling [TS]

00:48:01   stores that used to be a little [TS]

00:48:03   boutiques and Starbucks's or whatever [TS]

00:48:06   the starbucks equivalent 40 years ago [TS]

00:48:09   was which was not Orange Julius it was [TS]

00:48:13   stuff seeing stuff that about 40 years [TS]

00:48:15   ago the stuff that would pop up [TS]

00:48:17   yeah what was what was a really nice [TS]

00:48:18   well photo/national photo mats em photo [TS]

00:48:22   places that little Italian restaurant [TS]

00:48:24   like home style italian side like old [TS]

00:48:27   mall or and ya inside of an old like [TS]

00:48:29   mall that front of the highway right [TS]

00:48:32   well i'm thinking yeah we're walking in [TS]

00:48:34   there was a little fountain in the bin [TS]

00:48:36   Laden right where we're kind of a cherub [TS]

00:48:39   had some water coming out of his penis [TS]

00:48:42   it's not you know there's probably so [TS]

00:48:43   many things senior theses about this [TS]

00:48:45   that I'll never read but I have to admit [TS]

00:48:46   I [TS]

00:48:47   I am really fascinated by what happens [TS]

00:48:48   to a mall in particular as it goes down [TS]

00:48:50   because there's always there's always [TS]

00:48:53   these you know [TS]

00:48:55   ok so in Cincinnati we had northgate [TS]

00:48:57   mall and northgate mall was probably not [TS]

00:48:59   the first that was one of the first like [TS]

00:49:02   enclosed malls in the United States as [TS]

00:49:05   far yeah also has a northgate mall [TS]

00:49:07   interesting give a westfield mall we do [TS]

00:49:10   have a westfield mall [TS]

00:49:11   I think we have a self game all ends up [TS]

00:49:15   with this update in itself center or [TS]

00:49:17   southcenter but you know it starts out [TS]

00:49:19   and everything's glitzy and I remember [TS]

00:49:21   as a kid you remember this you go to the [TS]

00:49:22   mall as a kid and they have fountains [TS]

00:49:23   that worked inside the mountain [TS]

00:49:25   yeah inside my head the mountain inside [TS]

00:49:27   the inside the mall but then also they [TS]

00:49:30   would have car shows and van shows and [TS]

00:49:33   clearwater mall in clearwater florida i [TS]

00:49:34   remember at one point was the my [TS]

00:49:37   grandfather knew this exactly including [TS]

00:49:38   the asterisks but it was the single [TS]

00:49:40   largest mall under one roof in the [TS]

00:49:44   united states and was huge two-story [TS]

00:49:46   mall before these things were had really [TS]

00:49:47   caught on [TS]

00:49:48   yeah but you know I remember going there [TS]

00:49:49   there's a custom van show remember [TS]

00:49:51   seeing one called the dreamweaver with a [TS]

00:49:53   guy for Weaver on repeat [TS]

00:49:55   oh yeah remember remember the Pinto [TS]

00:49:57   wagon that had a that had a little [TS]

00:50:00   circular window in the back of the [TS]

00:50:03   window a bubble window Allah Allah [TS]

00:50:06   dreamweaver van [TS]

00:50:07   yeah and the you would get open the [TS]

00:50:10   tailgate on this Pinto wagon and the [TS]

00:50:12   inside of the wagon was all plush carpet [TS]

00:50:15   this is the thing these shows and zone [TS]

00:50:18   out so sexy and I remember one time they [TS]

00:50:20   had a thing about the stuff from the [TS]

00:50:22   future they had a house of the future [TS]

00:50:23   that looks like a UFO and then it starts [TS]

00:50:26   slidin down you know I'm pretty soon [TS]

00:50:27   you've got a bit worried whether used to [TS]

00:50:28   be like Sheila toes or McAlpin's now [TS]

00:50:31   you've got like a pantry pride that's [TS]

00:50:33   what I'm stride oh that's when you know [TS]

00:50:35   that but you know it's funny look at our [TS]

00:50:38   mall arm all i think is whistling past [TS]

00:50:41   the graveyard right now we are you [TS]

00:50:43   notice on the caravan their mothers the [TS]

00:50:44   mall where the apple store is about [TS]

00:50:46   almost exactly a mile south of where we [TS]

00:50:47   live [TS]

00:50:48   yeah and and used to be walk through [TS]

00:50:50   there and see how many places were empty [TS]

00:50:52   first I understand how you can have like [TS]

00:50:53   40 shoe stores in the mall I still [TS]

00:50:55   understand that but i guess there must [TS]

00:50:56   be a reason that they stay alive [TS]

00:50:58   suddenly there's more places like hot [TS]

00:51:00   topic there's more places like these [TS]

00:51:02   high volume younger people kind of [TS]

00:51:04   places there's tons of phone kiosks and [TS]

00:51:07   but you know what they do now is when [TS]

00:51:09   the place is empty remember how it used [TS]

00:51:10   to be they would just have like like a [TS]

00:51:12   big boarded-up thing [TS]

00:51:13   yeah and then the board of thing becomes [TS]

00:51:15   something where they like Drew giant [TS]

00:51:16   people on it that's right a big mural or [TS]

00:51:18   they dropped they'd say this space [TS]

00:51:20   available now people carrying shopping [TS]

00:51:22   bags now think they light it up and kind [TS]

00:51:24   of make it look like it's a store and [TS]

00:51:27   they they did you know and the things if [TS]

00:51:29   you look twice at it you'd realize that [TS]

00:51:30   it's it's it's like staging a model home [TS]

00:51:34   really it's a dummy store it's not if [TS]

00:51:36   you look at it obviously you can't walk [TS]

00:51:37   in but I think they're trying to avoid [TS]

00:51:40   the missing teeth that those kinds of [TS]

00:51:43   places created a mock because i'm gonna [TS]

00:51:44   bet you for a middle aged person walking [TS]

00:51:47   into a mall with a lot of stories that [TS]

00:51:48   aren't there [TS]

00:51:49   you know what I mean it feels handle it [TS]

00:51:50   feels like urban or the physics suburban [TS]

00:51:53   retail blight sure like it seems like [TS]

00:51:55   the Warriors yeah absolutely [TS]

00:51:58   come out and play unless you're i'm [TS]

00:52:03   going to bed on you can open but you [TS]

00:52:05   know that the what you're describing [TS]

00:52:06   also though is like that you know to get [TS]

00:52:08   into all the infrastructure of what it [TS]

00:52:10   takes two to do any of those things and [TS]

00:52:12   like you know are we can have the [TS]

00:52:14   capacity i'm guessing for things like [TS]

00:52:16   you know garbage and water and public [TS]

00:52:18   transit and stop lights and all the [TS]

00:52:20   kinds of things we had a friend in when [TS]

00:52:23   i was when i was a in junior high who [TS]

00:52:25   was the county Administrator I don't use [TS]

00:52:27   a rock-and-roll county administrator but [TS]

00:52:28   he was a county administrator for pasco [TS]

00:52:30   county and he wouldn't just out of [TS]

00:52:31   nowhere sometimes he would drop these [TS]

00:52:33   fascinating facts and you and you know i [TS]

00:52:35   was saying one day I was helping him [TS]

00:52:37   school helping him split some logs i [TS]

00:52:40   think for you know four dollars are [TS]

00:52:42   that's what she called a flourish it did [TS]

00:52:45   you grow up in Indiana and made 1850 [TS]

00:52:47   Illinois and down [TS]

00:52:50   I grew up in formaldehyde house but I [TS]

00:52:54   said southern yeah you know it's really [TS]

00:52:55   crazy over there by southgate mall it's [TS]

00:52:57   really not so you know there should be a [TS]

00:52:58   stoplight there is what can you do about [TS]

00:53:00   that Gallagher can you get a John [TS]

00:53:02   Gallagher can you get a stop light over [TS]

00:53:03   there said you know what I think what he [TS]

00:53:05   said with you know what it cost to put [TS]

00:53:06   in a stop sign somewhere [TS]

00:53:08   yeah and i forget i think the stoplight [TS]

00:53:11   in 1980 and he said any stop by starts [TS]

00:53:14   at forty thousand dollars [TS]

00:53:15   yeah um which I metal from remembering [TS]

00:53:17   that right but what I do remember is [TS]

00:53:19   when he told me what it cost to put a [TS]

00:53:21   stop light or a stop sign was like over [TS]

00:53:22   a thousand dollars or something but it [TS]

00:53:24   was one of those things where was a real [TS]

00:53:25   wake-up call to me because I just always [TS]

00:53:27   assume that there was a warehouse [TS]

00:53:28   somewhere full of entirely modern [TS]

00:53:31   stoplights and I got to do some couple [TS]

00:53:33   guys over there and put it up just a [TS]

00:53:35   couple guys that changes everything if [TS]

00:53:37   you're doing that on US 19 and you put [TS]

00:53:39   in a new stoplight with the with it with [TS]

00:53:40   it with al and green arrow and stuff [TS]

00:53:43   that changes so many yeah [TS]

00:53:45   butterfly effect Apple absolutely right [TS]

00:53:47   now they're building a new subway line [TS]

00:53:49   that goes to chinatown and stockton [TS]

00:53:51   street is like upside-down it's [TS]

00:53:53   completely upside down and try to [TS]

00:53:54   explain to my daughter who just mainly [TS]

00:53:56   want to go to disney store and have me [TS]

00:53:57   shut up that the knock-on effect of [TS]

00:54:00   closing the street for four years [TS]

00:54:02   like what that's going to mean to the [TS]

00:54:03   economy for the been for the was not Ben [TS]

00:54:07   Davis been with the shirt store [TS]

00:54:09   Ben Ben Ben Gurion david ben-gurion [TS]

00:54:12   store to keep in been than her [TS]

00:54:15   Allah Allah main yeah I don't know yeah [TS]

00:54:17   well I that the the thing about local [TS]

00:54:21   government you know city government [TS]

00:54:23   county government these guys are trying [TS]

00:54:25   to balance all these factors all these [TS]

00:54:29   things are happening and we interact [TS]

00:54:32   with their decisions mostly on the level [TS]

00:54:35   of why is the street closed [TS]

00:54:37   why is there not a blank here you know [TS]

00:54:41   why is there not a stop sign at this [TS]

00:54:43   intersection who and why why is there [TS]

00:54:47   never a cop when I can find one you know [TS]

00:54:49   the these and and everyone so while our [TS]

00:54:51   garbage doesn't get picked up and were [TS]

00:54:52   like goddamn City Hall but these people [TS]

00:54:55   who are working in local governments are [TS]

00:54:58   trying to you know trying to put out [TS]

00:55:01   fires but also trying to try to envision [TS]

00:55:03   the big picture of the development of [TS]

00:55:06   their region and this argument that were [TS]

00:55:08   having as a country [TS]

00:55:11   this big government versus you know [TS]

00:55:14   capitalism argument like it it [TS]

00:55:20   fundamentally doesn't interest me [TS]

00:55:22   because it's fundamentally not the art [TS]

00:55:23   it's not working with the right argument [TS]

00:55:26   it's the wrong argument like at a [TS]

00:55:28   certain point unless you are an [TS]

00:55:31   apocalyptic thinker who believes that [TS]

00:55:33   the day that you die the world stops [TS]

00:55:36   existing and I think a lot of people [TS]

00:55:38   live this one that's a really good point [TS]

00:55:40   i don't know their life such as sad way [TS]

00:55:42   to put it but I think you're absolutely [TS]

00:55:44   right [TS]

00:55:44   yeah they either because they think [TS]

00:55:47   they're going to heaven or because they [TS]

00:55:48   just have never thought beyond [TS]

00:55:50   themselves but a lot of people just are [TS]

00:55:53   like what are you talking about a [TS]

00:55:55   hundred years from now there is no such [TS]

00:55:57   thing i'm not going to be here so why [TS]

00:55:59   would it matter but without that kind of [TS]

00:56:04   thinking and that kind of thinking is [TS]

00:56:05   not inherently it's there's nothing [TS]

00:56:08   intrinsically hostile to capitalism [TS]

00:56:11   about it but it does and I understand [TS]

00:56:14   people's suspicions that those that [TS]

00:56:17   because this is that this is the famous [TS]

00:56:19   refrain of libertarians when you say [TS]

00:56:21   listen somebody needs to decide how many [TS]

00:56:23   houses are going to build we get built [TS]

00:56:25   in las vegas nevada this year [TS]

00:56:27   it can't be unlimited number of houses [TS]

00:56:30   you know we can't we can't let that the [TS]

00:56:33   number of houses built in Las Vegas be [TS]

00:56:35   determined just by how many houses we [TS]

00:56:37   can possibly build this year the [TS]

00:56:40   Libertarians will instantly say well who [TS]

00:56:43   decides who gets to decide about people [TS]

00:56:46   who understand the problem well and the [TS]

00:56:48   implication is that it's someone [TS]

00:56:50   qualified you know the implication is [TS]

00:56:53   that that decision is going to be made [TS]

00:56:55   by by some bureaucrat with a degree in [TS]

00:56:59   sociology from a local community college [TS]

00:57:02   who's going to sit there and smirk at [TS]

00:57:04   them as they give as they decline their [TS]

00:57:08   building permit you know and that is [TS]

00:57:12   such a pervasive attitude and it's it's [TS]

00:57:15   a funny thing when you think about how [TS]

00:57:17   politics and in in America and in a lot [TS]

00:57:21   of places works [TS]

00:57:22   where most people's political awareness [TS]

00:57:24   is at the level of they go to the DMV [TS]

00:57:30   and they have a bad experience and it [TS]

00:57:34   radical Isis that they become anti [TS]

00:57:38   government because they went to the DMV [TS]

00:57:41   and somebody there was rude to them and [TS]

00:57:44   charge them what they think is an unfair [TS]

00:57:45   amount for their tabs and that's the [TS]

00:57:48   that is the depth of their political [TS]

00:57:50   experience they have a they don't have [TS]

00:57:52   any interaction with with government [TS]

00:57:55   other than getting pulled over by the [TS]

00:57:57   cops having to wait in line at the DMV [TS]

00:57:59   and what the guy comes into their yard [TS]

00:58:04   to read their meter you know that's the [TS]

00:58:06   extent of their contact and a few [TS]

00:58:09   negative experiences it radicalize [TS]

00:58:12   people for life because they picture [TS]

00:58:13   Congress or a picture the people at that [TS]

00:58:17   City Hall and they imagine it's just a [TS]

00:58:19   giant DMV full of likes of like smog [TS]

00:58:23   lazy people with whom most of them [TS]

00:58:25   probably have an agenda smug lazy people [TS]

00:58:27   who whether they have an agenda they [TS]

00:58:30   certainly have tenure they're not going [TS]

00:58:32   to get fired they are you know they're [TS]

00:58:34   part of a they're part of a city union [TS]

00:58:36   or government union and they have that [TS]

00:58:39   kind of Union smugness and so people you [TS]

00:58:42   know people think when they at when [TS]

00:58:44   libertarians ask that question who [TS]

00:58:46   decides what their picturing is a DMV [TS]

00:58:50   and what the country needs or what how [TS]

00:58:54   the way we need to think is well yeah [TS]

00:58:58   that's a good question who decides and [TS]

00:59:01   it's not it isn't the question isn't [TS]

00:59:05   answered just by asking it in a snare [TS]

00:59:07   eway like yeah who decides let's pick [TS]

00:59:10   somebody you know I mean do we want [TS]

00:59:14   do we want to basically that's asking do [TS]

00:59:17   we want another layer of government but [TS]

00:59:18   it's a but it is a it's a valid question [TS]

00:59:20   we need we cannot because the mayor has [TS]

00:59:25   to run around town you showing up at [TS]

00:59:29   bake sales and stuff [TS]

00:59:30   mayor does not have the time to sit at a [TS]

00:59:33   long table with his council of elders [TS]

00:59:35   and consider these things but every city [TS]

00:59:38   needs a philosopher you know every city [TS]

00:59:41   needs a almost like an existential [TS]

00:59:45   project manager excited that you can [TS]

00:59:47   develop of developments are because [TS]

00:59:50   cities are all about development the [TS]

00:59:53   question the question of cities and the [TS]

00:59:55   question of america is really a question [TS]

00:59:58   of development people [TS]

00:59:58   of development people [TS]

01:00:00   owned property they want the right to [TS]

01:00:02   develop and how they want but our mutual [TS]

01:00:06   benefit [TS]

01:00:07   depends on occasionally people being [TS]

01:00:10   disappointed because you can't always [TS]

01:00:13   just do what you want if we're going to [TS]

01:00:16   have cities that are coherent you know [TS]

01:00:20   if our lives are going to be coherent [TS]

01:00:22   living together [TS]

01:00:24   not everybody gets to do exactly what [TS]

01:00:26   they want all the time and just one [TS]

01:00:28   question as far as development does that [TS]

01:00:30   also under that rubric you you would [TS]

01:00:33   also include things like infrastructure [TS]

01:00:35   upkeep maintenance fixing the sidewalks [TS]

01:00:39   all that incredibly boring and [TS]

01:00:40   ridiculously costly stuff that's that [TS]

01:00:42   all factors into the the development [TS]

01:00:44   issue right absolutely and there are [TS]

01:00:46   times and this is the this is the thing [TS]

01:00:47   about taxes like the the water that we [TS]

01:00:51   get out of our tap in seattle is coming [TS]

01:00:54   through pipes that come all the way down [TS]

01:00:57   from the mountains for you know hundreds [TS]

01:01:01   of miles these pipes and they were laid [TS]

01:01:04   a hundred years ago or more by teams of [TS]

01:01:08   men with shovel shovels and donkeys and [TS]

01:01:12   some of these pipes I swear to you are [TS]

01:01:14   made out of cedar I'm not kidding you're [TS]

01:01:18   making that up there are water there are [TS]

01:01:20   giant water mains in washington state [TS]

01:01:22   that are made out of cedar and then a [TS]

01:01:27   lot of them that are made out of iron [TS]

01:01:28   and and whatever else and at a certain [TS]

01:01:32   point you need you're gonna need to [TS]

01:01:34   modernize those systems you know when we [TS]

01:01:36   went when I bought this house when my [TS]

01:01:38   mom bought her house one of the first [TS]

01:01:39   things we did was we dug up the rusting [TS]

01:01:43   old [TS]

01:01:45   iron water main that went out to the [TS]

01:01:48   street and replaced it with it with a [TS]

01:01:51   new you know sadly PVC water made but we [TS]

01:01:58   only went out to the street the water [TS]

01:01:59   man that runs under the sidewalk is [TS]

01:02:02   whose responsibility it's only the [TS]

01:02:05   cities and as you follow that back to [TS]

01:02:07   the Giant you know the cedar tube that [TS]

01:02:10   you could run a super train through that [TS]

01:02:13   is buried basically under the street two [TS]

01:02:16   blocks from my house [TS]

01:02:17   um what do you do when that went up when [TS]

01:02:21   that springs a leak you know it isn't [TS]

01:02:23   you cannot you cannot talk about taxes [TS]

01:02:25   you can't talk about development without [TS]

01:02:27   understanding that this that all of our [TS]

01:02:29   cities are built they were built at a [TS]

01:02:32   time when a guy with a cigar and a [TS]

01:02:35   handlebar mustache said build a pipe do [TS]

01:02:38   it and people did it he did not have to [TS]

01:02:41   get he did not have to get approval from [TS]

01:02:44   seven different city agencies because [TS]

01:02:45   they didn't exist yet but now when that [TS]

01:02:48   thing when that thing fails it's all of [TS]

01:02:51   our responsibilities and and more to the [TS]

01:02:54   point like what do I mean this is the [TS]

01:02:56   public transit question it's like we're [TS]

01:02:58   not building public transit for now we [TS]

01:03:01   never are [TS]

01:03:02   we're always building public transit for [TS]

01:03:04   40 years from now and has to be kind of [TS]

01:03:08   essay and tech forward compatible right [TS]

01:03:10   and if you if you if you put it up to a [TS]

01:03:13   public referendum and you say hey [TS]

01:03:15   everybody out there to take a second [TS]

01:03:18   like mute your televisions for a second [TS]

01:03:20   and let's think about what this city is [TS]

01:03:23   going to look like in 40 years and how [TS]

01:03:25   transit is going to interact with it who [TS]

01:03:28   is it who even needs their television [TS]

01:03:30   not nobody does they're all like [TS]

01:03:32   how.what blue somebody has to be looking [TS]

01:03:35   at that and and and making and somebody [TS]

01:03:38   has to be looking at that empowered to [TS]

01:03:40   make decisions because we have people [TS]

01:03:41   looking at it we have transit committees [TS]

01:03:44   who look at them they're like well this [TS]

01:03:45   is what we have to do but they're not [TS]

01:03:48   empowered they all they can do is kind [TS]

01:03:50   of Limp forward with their project and [TS]

01:03:52   try and convince the [TS]

01:03:54   the four percent of the population that [TS]

01:03:56   reads the newspaper still and then just [TS]

01:03:59   hope that the rest of the people are too [TS]

01:04:03   confused to read the ballot initiative [TS]

01:04:05   properly i mean that's that's why they [TS]

01:04:06   have valid initiatives are are phrased [TS]

01:04:08   so convoluted li-like vote yes on no to [TS]

01:04:12   the gas project to the double negative [TS]

01:04:16   active and the funny part is you can [TS]

01:04:18   when you watch like the the local you [TS]

01:04:21   know planning meetings or anything like [TS]

01:04:23   that on on those weird cable stations [TS]

01:04:26   accidentally do [TS]

01:04:27   yeah but I see this is I I'm really like [TS]

01:04:31   to come back to this i would like to [TS]

01:04:32   consider nominating you to be the [TS]

01:04:33   bizarre it for these things I'd like you [TS]

01:04:36   to control others are well I mean this [TS]

01:04:38   is clearly you need that here's the [TS]

01:04:40   thing like in england right you've got a [TS]

01:04:42   queen and you gotta prime minister i [TS]

01:04:44   think they think you know what I mean [TS]

01:04:46   you got somebody is therefore the Syrian [TS]

01:04:48   ceremonial stuff you might even said [TS]

01:04:49   that the Prime Minister of England is a [TS]

01:04:51   little bit of a queen [TS]

01:04:52   oh no you did it you are putting yeah [TS]

01:05:00   you know you got somebody who's there to [TS]

01:05:02   make the tube run on time [TS]

01:05:03   yeah and and then you need a Unitas are [TS]

01:05:05   you know what i mean but yeah I am [TS]

01:05:08   this is why Bloomberg has been such a [TS]

01:05:10   successful mayor of New York is that [TS]

01:05:12   Bloomberg and Bloomberg has enough has [TS]

01:05:16   had enough success running that city and [TS]

01:05:19   with enough like innovative ideas that [TS]

01:05:23   he despite the fact that he's a [TS]

01:05:24   Republican in an overwhelmingly [TS]

01:05:26   Democratic City people have embraced him [TS]

01:05:28   and despite the fact that he is a little [TS]

01:05:31   Imperial people are like yeah okay but [TS]

01:05:35   he you know he's he's doing some pretty [TS]

01:05:39   cool stuff and so people give him the [TS]

01:05:41   leeway this whole like outlawing soda [TS]

01:05:44   pops that are bigger than 16 ounces [TS]

01:05:47   thing whoever not even Giuliani would [TS]

01:05:52   have would have attempted such a such a [TS]

01:05:57   nanny state initiative [TS]

01:06:00   uh-huh but but Bloomberg succeeded by [TS]

01:06:03   tension by two [TS]

01:06:05   precisely yes you can buy to you can [TS]

01:06:08   carry around a 32 ounce cup and x 2 16 [TS]

01:06:11   ounce pops and the green way to do it [TS]

01:06:13   that is the you know that's hacking that [TS]

01:06:15   that's how can be actually marine life [TS]

01:06:17   right you know what I think when I New [TS]

01:06:20   York is one of those places when I stand [TS]

01:06:22   there and i imagine it when i look at [TS]

01:06:25   the geography of Manhattan Island and I [TS]

01:06:28   imagine what if New York was built like [TS]

01:06:32   London what if New York was built like [TS]

01:06:35   you originally was which was twisty [TS]

01:06:40   windy streets that conform to the more [TS]

01:06:44   or less to the geography of the land [TS]

01:06:47   k imagine manhattan island without the [TS]

01:06:52   crisscrossing right angle boulevards if [TS]

01:06:57   if Manhattan had just been developed [TS]

01:07:00   like London just go trails and twisting [TS]

01:07:03   little roads I mean you could say oh it [TS]

01:07:06   wouldn't have prospered like it has but [TS]

01:07:08   London has prospered who London is a [TS]

01:07:11   major city of the world and there are [TS]

01:07:13   not two streets running parallel in the [TS]

01:07:16   entire city [TS]

01:07:18   what if New York had not been greeted [TS]

01:07:21   you try to imagine the try to imagine [TS]

01:07:26   the city that same way or you know like [TS]

01:07:29   because because the geography of [TS]

01:07:31   America's it's pretty interesting [TS]

01:07:32   certainly as you move up the island [TS]

01:07:34   uh-huh if you had little twisty windy at [TS]

01:07:39   skyline with sure look different now [TS]

01:07:41   from what i can tell you why but I also [TS]

01:07:43   imagined there'd be just fewer [TS]

01:07:45   skyscrapers in general yeah there would [TS]

01:07:47   be if for no other reason than it would [TS]

01:07:48   be really hard to close off this you [TS]

01:07:51   know you know seven-eighths of the [TS]

01:07:54   circle ish area and they got a six-block [TS]

01:07:58   area is going to be closed for walkers [TS]

01:07:59   were doing this the crane goes here [TS]

01:08:00   you know I mean yeah well maybe it [TS]

01:08:02   wouldn't be a skyscraper city would look [TS]

01:08:04   like Greenwich Village the whole place [TS]

01:08:06   um but every once awhile when I'm there [TS]

01:08:10   I'll stop in union square something and [TS]

01:08:13   trying to Train hover and get the get [TS]

01:08:16   the long view [TS]

01:08:17   and be like why would that be don't be [TS]

01:08:21   so weird it would seem so much less [TS]

01:08:23   metropolitan yeah although London does [TS]

01:08:28   not lack metropolitan tennety if it's [TS]

01:08:32   weird in my head that grid is any1 in [TS]

01:08:36   New York maybe four times but it's York [TS]

01:08:39   City but like that greatness that George [TS]

01:08:41   Gershwin but then you kind of like [TS]

01:08:44   criticism that's what it feels like it [TS]

01:08:47   is [TS]

01:08:47   ya know that it's it's it's just a it's [TS]

01:08:50   just a fantasy fantasy thinking because [TS]

01:08:52   of course like it wouldn't be newer [TS]

01:08:54   wouldn't be Priscilla put up with that [TS]

01:08:56   can imagine cabbies having to deal with [TS]

01:08:57   that [TS]

01:08:58   well that that that is I mean I've [TS]

01:09:00   driven I've driven in london in the you [TS]

01:09:03   know in the center of the city many [TS]

01:09:05   times over the years powerful it is [TS]

01:09:07   minutes that's crazy-making and the [TS]

01:09:10   people that live there i think even [TS]

01:09:12   people who live there the whole life [TS]

01:09:14   still appreciate that it is crazy isn't [TS]

01:09:17   room like that too is around pretty [TS]

01:09:18   crazy to drive it well [TS]

01:09:20   Rome is crazy to drive and not just for [TS]

01:09:23   that reason but also because people it's [TS]

01:09:26   in Italy it is driving in Rome is like [TS]

01:09:30   driving in Cairo [TS]

01:09:31   I mean there's no there's no serbia [TS]

01:09:33   there's no other way to put it it's just [TS]

01:09:35   like a that's the fucks about slots and [TS]

01:09:41   you know people driving on the sidewalks [TS]

01:09:43   and it's just I just AM cabins that was [TS]

01:09:46   a thousand times did a quick google map [TS]

01:09:48   search on how far away my water is I [TS]

01:09:51   just I just made himself a few minutes [TS]

01:09:52   ago at one point that water was a [TS]

01:09:54   hundred and eighty nine miles away from [TS]

01:09:56   here the water that you are drinking in [TS]

01:09:57   San Francisco it comes from a place if I [TS]

01:10:00   drove there we take 24 hours to get to [TS]

01:10:02   wear my water comes from ya think about [TS]

01:10:05   how long it takes the water to make that [TS]

01:10:06   trip like the Sun or something for some [TS]

01:10:09   reason and I you know so there's a [TS]

01:10:12   thread that runs through a lot of what [TS]

01:10:13   you're saying i think which is that most [TS]

01:10:15   of just don't really understand how the [TS]

01:10:19   sausage gets made [TS]

01:10:20   yeah yeah yeahs understand on our soap [TS]

01:10:23   boxes and screaming child I mean people [TS]

01:10:24   were screaming at me on twitter [TS]

01:10:26   yesterday because because they've been [TS]

01:10:27   to the DMV that's all that that is the [TS]

01:10:29   matter [TS]

01:10:29   autonomy that's like all they need is [TS]

01:10:31   the nose that's all they need to [TS]

01:10:33   understand everything about how [TS]

01:10:34   government works is this certainly women [TS]

01:10:37   woman with lots of you know longevity [TS]

01:10:40   performance badges who's not going to do [TS]

01:10:42   something that seems very simple to you [TS]

01:10:44   for you right [TS]

01:10:46   that's emblematic that becomes the whole [TS]

01:10:47   thing that don't you think yeah [TS]

01:10:48   absolutely ended and it's a question of [TS]

01:10:50   you get your tax bill and it seems [TS]

01:10:52   unfair and you go that's not right and [TS]

01:10:58   that is the depth of your analysis like [TS]

01:11:00   the tax bill seems unfair and it's not [TS]

01:11:03   right because that money is being wasted [TS]

01:11:06   and now i'm outraged and no one that it [TS]

01:11:14   is so unusual that a person even though [TS]

01:11:16   even a liberal who's like well I pay my [TS]

01:11:18   taxes happily you know investigating [TS]

01:11:21   exactly how your tax money is spent on [TS]

01:11:23   what is fascinating and you get to the [TS]

01:11:27   point where you're like my tax bill came [TS]

01:11:31   what am I gonna find you know what what [TS]

01:11:34   am I going to discover in it now you [TS]

01:11:36   know there are so I'm there there is [TS]

01:11:38   plenty of waste for sure in government [TS]

01:11:41   but they're trying to do so much you [TS]

01:11:45   know government is trying to do so much [TS]

01:11:48   and if all you have to do is go to a [TS]

01:11:50   place like Bulgaria where the government [TS]

01:11:56   is trying to do a lot of things and not [TS]

01:12:01   100-percent making it happen not [TS]

01:12:05   penetrating all the little places you [TS]

01:12:08   know and you're you're walking around [TS]

01:12:10   the city and you're like I mean this is [TS]

01:12:12   a thing that no one in America has ever [TS]

01:12:14   experienced but if you are in Eastern [TS]

01:12:15   Europe and walking down the street you [TS]

01:12:17   you see missing manhole covers right [TS]

01:12:21   yeah you know well why do you never see [TS]

01:12:26   that in America because that if a [TS]

01:12:28   manhole cover went missing it would be [TS]

01:12:29   replaced in two seconds [TS]

01:12:31   there is no such thing as a missing [TS]

01:12:33   manhole cover even in America even in [TS]

01:12:36   even in the most bombed out city here [TS]

01:12:38   there is enough government to keep that [TS]

01:12:39   from half [TS]

01:12:40   and we're like you wouldn't just drive [TS]

01:12:43   off like if they're building or like [TS]

01:12:46   repairing some part of the highway you [TS]

01:12:48   would never just drive off an OP like an [TS]

01:12:50   off-ramp they just stopped in midair [TS]

01:12:52   right right i just got to put up with [TS]

01:12:54   the side [TS]

01:12:55   yeah there's always I mean and at the [TS]

01:12:58   other day my mom was driving down the [TS]

01:12:59   street and they're building their [TS]

01:13:01   building some public transit here in [TS]

01:13:02   Seattle that was conceived by committee [TS]

01:13:06   approved approved by a committee that [TS]

01:13:09   was trying to appeal to 15 different [TS]

01:13:14   constituencies so that there is not [TS]

01:13:16   there was not a very good idea [TS]

01:13:18   like if you look at the town you look at [TS]

01:13:20   how it's going to develop over the next [TS]

01:13:21   40 years the train should have gone XYZ [TS]

01:13:25   but they put the train in you know XP l [TS]

01:13:30   because they had to go by P because [TS]

01:13:33   that's the hospital and that's a big [TS]

01:13:35   constituencies you have to go have the [TS]

01:13:36   train go by the hospital and you know [TS]

01:13:39   and it would be too difficult to to turn [TS]

01:13:42   the train around over here anyway they [TS]

01:13:44   they're there they're building what is [TS]

01:13:46   what is a good thing and they're [TS]

01:13:48   building a dumb way because there wasn't [TS]

01:13:50   somebody with the power sitting in the [TS]

01:13:52   big chair to say it's got to go here [TS]

01:13:55   I'm sorry if that disappoints people but [TS]

01:13:56   really this is how this is how it should [TS]

01:13:58   look anyway so they're building this [TS]

01:14:00   thing and so we've got the streets all [TS]

01:14:03   torn up and there's traffic backed up 42 [TS]

01:14:07   miles along Broadway and my mom is [TS]

01:14:09   sitting at this traffic light and [TS]

01:14:10   there's a cop there and the cop is [TS]

01:14:12   ostensibly directing traffic but the [TS]

01:14:17   cops got one hand in his pocket and he's [TS]

01:14:21   just kind of standing there like a dope [TS]

01:14:23   and every once in a while somebody gets [TS]

01:14:26   in the wrong lane or has his turn signal [TS]

01:14:28   on in a way the cup doesn't like in the [TS]

01:14:30   cop Connie you know will yell at the [TS]

01:14:33   other guy like keep moving or something [TS]

01:14:34   like that but my mom looks at that cop [TS]

01:14:38   and what she sees in his place is a [TS]

01:14:40   vigorous traffic directing police [TS]

01:14:43   officer was like come on let's go let's [TS]

01:14:46   go you know one of those guys that you [TS]

01:14:47   see in Manhattan [TS]

01:14:49   we've got a whistle and is just clenched [TS]

01:14:52   in his teeth like the model the model of [TS]

01:14:53   clay [TS]

01:14:54   already this guy who's like I'm in [TS]

01:14:55   charge of this intersection if nothing [TS]

01:14:57   else if nothing else in my life if my [TS]

01:15:00   wife doesn't love me if my kids don't [TS]

01:15:02   listen to me i'm in charge of this [TS]

01:15:04   fucking intersection right now and I [TS]

01:15:06   want you to go now go now you twit go [TS]

01:15:10   you now go go [TS]

01:15:11   okay stop now you go and what that [TS]

01:15:15   intersection needed what the city of [TS]

01:15:17   seattle needed in that moment was that [TS]

01:15:19   cop the cop who had a whistle in his [TS]

01:15:23   teeth and he was he owned that [TS]

01:15:25   intersection that's a different from the [TS]

01:15:26   attitude of a fireman is getting at it [TS]

01:15:29   getting you out of the building next to [TS]

01:15:31   the one that's burning right you don't [TS]

01:15:33   again got clarity of thinking ahead like [TS]

01:15:36   everybody else in here is going to be [TS]

01:15:38   thinking about what's going on and what [TS]

01:15:39   they're going to have for dinner and I'm [TS]

01:15:41   gonna stand here and every one of you is [TS]

01:15:42   going to in an orderly way you're all [TS]

01:15:44   gonna go through that door and get out [TS]

01:15:45   of here alive [TS]

01:15:46   go go go go and I don't have time to [TS]

01:15:49   explain this to you [TS]

01:15:51   so my mom is sitting at this [TS]

01:15:52   intersection and she's looking at this [TS]

01:15:54   cop and she's like the city isn't [TS]

01:15:57   working [TS]

01:15:58   the government isn't working and you [TS]

01:16:01   know my mom has has a long view but her [TS]

01:16:04   relationship to the police department in [TS]

01:16:07   seattle is is very is very much like my [TS]

01:16:12   mom is very she sends a lot of anonymous [TS]

01:16:17   angry letters precinct so she's she's [TS]

01:16:23   got her own own little bitter rolodex of [TS]

01:16:25   exactly how it should go to she takes [TS]

01:16:27   people's badge numbers Oh gotta respect [TS]

01:16:29   that and she writes down this actually [TS]

01:16:32   follows through she follows through yeah [TS]

01:16:34   she's trying to she's not she doesn't [TS]

01:16:36   let the cops off the hook at all but so [TS]

01:16:38   she's sitting at this intersection she's [TS]

01:16:40   like what the fuck is wrong with this [TS]

01:16:41   cop [TS]

01:16:42   what is wrong with the culture of the [TS]

01:16:44   police department that this police [TS]

01:16:46   person does not have the does not have [TS]

01:16:49   that the energy to actually be directing [TS]

01:16:52   traffic here and she's looking up the [TS]

01:16:54   street and looking down the street and [TS]

01:16:55   she's like this is affecting this is [TS]

01:16:57   going to affect traffic in seattle all [TS]

01:16:59   day because it had its having a it's [TS]

01:17:01   having a a reverberatory affect all [TS]

01:17:05   through the town [TS]

01:17:06   and it's all on this guy who's who is [TS]

01:17:10   taking a lazy a fair attitude to his job [TS]

01:17:14   here you know and and and honestly if I [TS]

01:17:17   was that cop supervisor and drove [TS]

01:17:19   through there and there was nobody [TS]

01:17:20   blocking the intersection and nobody [TS]

01:17:23   lying dead on the street you know yeah [TS]

01:17:25   he's doing his job but he's not he's not [TS]

01:17:29   doing is not really doing the job but [TS]

01:17:32   what you think about all these guys that [TS]

01:17:34   came it came to Seattle today to drop [TS]

01:17:36   off a bale hay at somebody's kiddie ride [TS]

01:17:39   and they're driving a dually diesel [TS]

01:17:42   dodge pickup truck and they're headed [TS]

01:17:44   back out to their ranch in yakima and [TS]

01:17:48   they're waiting at this intersection and [TS]

01:17:51   you know you hear these people talk all [TS]

01:17:52   the time they're like I've never live in [TS]

01:17:54   Seattle hell no although you know just a [TS]

01:17:57   bunch of there's a bunch of animals who [TS]

01:18:00   and that's that guy's that's that guy's [TS]

01:18:04   experience of Seattle this is hard [TS]

01:18:06   he's got your card yeah he's watching [TS]

01:18:07   she's watching that cop and he thinks [TS]

01:18:09   this is bullshit and he is and his vote [TS]

01:18:13   counts the same as mine about whether [TS]

01:18:15   Seattle gets the tax money to put in [TS]

01:18:19   high-speed public transit or to replace [TS]

01:18:22   our water mains and he's sitting out [TS]

01:18:25   there you know in the same county i live [TS]

01:18:27   in but he's going well you know that [TS]

01:18:31   money is just wasted who decides it's [TS]

01:18:33   just some just some bureaucrat but yeah [TS]

01:18:37   you're onto something that's a theory [TS]

01:18:39   I've been trying to bubble around in my [TS]

01:18:40   head for a while and it's nothing [TS]

01:18:42   particularly new or unique but I think [TS]

01:18:45   in example like that it's that is pretty [TS]

01:18:48   close to a template for how millions of [TS]

01:18:51   interactions go down every day and you [TS]

01:18:52   can certainly see the results of this on [TS]

01:18:54   the internet once you're aware of this [TS]

01:18:55   pattern listeners you you may see this [TS]

01:18:57   more so you know it's it's it's kind of [TS]

01:19:00   a shadow of like how cognitive [TS]

01:19:02   behavioral therapy works in some ways [TS]

01:19:04   but more like awful and distorted way [TS]

01:19:06   something happens in the world and that [TS]

01:19:09   could be Leslie so you know you're the [TS]

01:19:12   DMV and you don't like this person's [TS]

01:19:14   attitude i'm at the safeway and I don't [TS]

01:19:17   like that the person is talking about my [TS]

01:19:18   groceries [TS]

01:19:19   nobody is displeased with how that [TS]

01:19:21   particular person is or is not directing [TS]

01:19:23   traffic and the one of the very first [TS]

01:19:26   thing that happens is you see something [TS]

01:19:27   happening and you go straight to having [TS]

01:19:29   a very strong emotion about it and let's [TS]

01:19:31   be honest that you know let's just even [TS]

01:19:33   say that maybe that person is not [TS]

01:19:34   working optimally or not working to the [TS]

01:19:37   spec let's just say for the sake of [TS]

01:19:38   argument that just didn't go as well as [TS]

01:19:40   it could [TS]

01:19:40   great example customer service people [TS]

01:19:42   right you call up and send something was [TS]

01:19:45   broken your you know your Superman ball [TS]

01:19:48   is not as well articulated as it said in [TS]

01:19:50   the ad and you call this person and [TS]

01:19:52   you're furious but something happened [TS]

01:19:53   you get a really strong emotion about it [TS]

01:19:56   i eat maybe can't shake and it just [TS]

01:19:59   feels like it's not a very long there [TS]

01:20:01   might be other steps in this but there's [TS]

01:20:03   not a very long leap from for most [TS]

01:20:05   people from something happened i have a [TS]

01:20:06   feeling to this will have an impact on [TS]

01:20:08   society right to like I suddenly have [TS]

01:20:12   such and I think part of it comes out of [TS]

01:20:14   this impotent feeling that maybe your [TS]

01:20:16   libertarian who thinks that you should [TS]

01:20:17   only you know pay for one road that [TS]

01:20:19   everybody uses lightly or whatever it is [TS]

01:20:21   maybe you don't mean but whoever you are [TS]

01:20:23   whatever your political affiliation [TS]

01:20:25   I honestly think that most of us it [TS]

01:20:28   starts with an emotion it doesn't start [TS]

01:20:29   with going to a planning meeting or [TS]

01:20:31   zoning meeting and understanding it [TS]

01:20:32   doesn't start with the understanding [TS]

01:20:33   that maybe that guy's cat maybe the [TS]

01:20:35   traffic cops cat died that day [TS]

01:20:37   yeah you know it is and the trying to be [TS]

01:20:39   too too flimsy about this but what's [TS]

01:20:41   funny is that the people who get the [TS]

01:20:42   most worked up and become these people [TS]

01:20:45   who are connected with the the witch [TS]

01:20:46   called tweet storms or the other bombs [TS]

01:20:49   like the people get involved in that [TS]

01:20:50   stuff it really just started because [TS]

01:20:52   they're mad at their luggage wasn't [TS]

01:20:53   there [TS]

01:20:53   yeah you know and in order to quote [TS]

01:20:55   Barry it's very soul like well what you [TS]

01:20:57   want to do you want me to do you want to [TS]

01:20:58   just do you want to just pick up the [TS]

01:21:00   airport and shake it to your bags [TS]

01:21:01   fallout [TS]

01:21:02   yeah I'm here and you know what dude on [TS]

01:21:05   the baggage guy and I'm fucking here to [TS]

01:21:06   help you [TS]

01:21:07   you're not going to meet another person [TS]

01:21:08   here that is that with your attitude [TS]

01:21:11   you're never going to meet anybody more [TS]

01:21:12   sympathetic than me [TS]

01:21:14   my job is to try and help help you but I [TS]

01:21:16   I am NOT God I I can't change the way [TS]

01:21:19   that a huge broken system works and [TS]

01:21:21   you're yelling at me is not helping and [TS]

01:21:23   then going on Twitter and yelling about [TS]

01:21:25   it is going to help even less even if [TS]

01:21:27   you get a lynch mob mob it's not going [TS]

01:21:28   to change the denver airport and this is [TS]

01:21:30   the this is the this is [TS]

01:21:33   the the thing that has affected the the [TS]

01:21:35   tenor of our national conversation the [TS]

01:21:38   idea that property rights is a thing [TS]

01:21:40   that you would shout at somebody is I [TS]

01:21:44   mean there is no more secure your [TS]

01:21:46   farmers your farmers who who want you [TS]

01:21:48   want to have you know they don't want to [TS]

01:21:49   build a skyscraper they want the right [TS]

01:21:50   to build a skyscraper yeah and people [TS]

01:21:52   shout this now who do know who do not [TS]

01:21:54   own any property property rights has [TS]

01:21:56   become a kind of stuff what's wrong with [TS]

01:21:57   Kansas problem it's like you know people [TS]

01:21:59   like my mom who have the values of an [TS]

01:22:01   extremely extremely right-wing [TS]

01:22:02   Republican and none of the assets to [TS]

01:22:04   back it up [TS]

01:22:04   yeah right and to the right is the money [TS]

01:22:07   they want there are no two more personal [TS]

01:22:09   words in American politics because [TS]

01:22:11   property rights is it's it's it it is an [TS]

01:22:16   expression of people's feeling that they [TS]

01:22:19   do not have any power over there they [TS]

01:22:21   don't have autonomy they don't have [TS]

01:22:23   power over their environment [TS]

01:22:25   well they did they got the ownership [TS]

01:22:26   that God has granted them as an American [TS]

01:22:29   but they don't have the rights that you [TS]

01:22:30   come with that right well or or or what [TS]

01:22:34   they don't see I mean the thing is I [TS]

01:22:35   have tremendous sympathy for municipal [TS]

01:22:37   governments because I because my people [TS]

01:22:39   all were always in government my uncle [TS]

01:22:41   was a was a the mayor of Anchorage my [TS]

01:22:44   dad was on the legislature my granduncle [TS]

01:22:47   was a city councilman you know that I [TS]

01:22:50   come from these people and I ready and I [TS]

01:22:52   end up adding friends with the local [TS]

01:22:54   government here in Seattle and I like [TS]

01:22:57   talking about government and so I hear [TS]

01:22:59   from them their frustrations and they're [TS]

01:23:01   not expressed as frustrations are just [TS]

01:23:03   like this is my job [TS]

01:23:04   it's very hard for me [TS]

01:23:07   to go to a meeting where I am saying for [TS]

01:23:10   the for everyone's benefit [TS]

01:23:14   we need to keep the side of this hill [TS]

01:23:19   forested otherwise landslides who will [TS]

01:23:24   take all the soil off down into the [TS]

01:23:27   river and we will have floods and it [TS]

01:23:30   will be a natural disaster and i'm [TS]

01:23:33   saying this to the five guys who own [TS]

01:23:35   that hillside and they own that land [TS]

01:23:39   some of them have owned that land for 80 [TS]

01:23:41   years and whether they ever intended to [TS]

01:23:44   cut those trees down who they're [TS]

01:23:46   powerful desire to not be told what to [TS]

01:23:51   do with that land is deafening them and [TS]

01:23:55   if you don't have sympathy for those [TS]

01:23:57   guys who own that hillside you're crazy [TS]

01:24:00   because you have to have sympathy for [TS]

01:24:01   them if that was my land I would feel [TS]

01:24:03   the same way if that was my land I would [TS]

01:24:06   be at that meeting and I would be like [TS]

01:24:07   god damn you property rights you can't [TS]

01:24:10   tell me that I can't chop down these [TS]

01:24:11   trees you know and and show me the [TS]

01:24:14   report show me the science that says [TS]

01:24:16   that this you know you don't know for [TS]

01:24:19   sure guy that the landslides are going [TS]

01:24:21   to happen like all this in its it's [TS]

01:24:23   analogous to global warming it's [TS]

01:24:25   analogous to every one of our national [TS]

01:24:27   problems there is a there is some [TS]

01:24:29   personal there's a guy at the heart of [TS]

01:24:32   every one of those that has a personal [TS]

01:24:33   feeling that you shouldn't be able to [TS]

01:24:35   tell him what to do but the city the guy [TS]

01:24:38   whose job it is to keep that from [TS]

01:24:41   happening and it's not his job isn't to [TS]

01:24:44   protect his ass [TS]

01:24:46   you know this is the other negative [TS]

01:24:48   version of government is that the guys [TS]

01:24:49   just trying to protect his ass but if [TS]

01:24:51   the landslide happens then he's going to [TS]

01:24:53   be on the hook for it and that's his [TS]

01:24:54   motivation if the government spent more [TS]

01:24:56   money on landslide remediation they've [TS]

01:24:59   got the budget while they take care of [TS]

01:25:00   that instead of picking my pocket [TS]

01:25:02   yeah we're or other there's a million [TS]

01:25:03   permutations of it but most people that [TS]

01:25:05   were working in government are trying to [TS]

01:25:06   protect their ask that way or at least [TS]

01:25:08   the high levels they're trying to look [TS]

01:25:09   for years down the road and and yet they [TS]

01:25:13   have tremendous sympathy for this [TS]

01:25:15   purpose for these people who own that [TS]

01:25:17   property [TS]

01:25:18   but their hands are tied and you cannot [TS]

01:25:22   you cannot go to a meeting like that and [TS]

01:25:23   come away from it feeling like there [TS]

01:25:26   isn't [TS]

01:25:26   there's any kind of elegant solution [TS]

01:25:28   because you're never going to convince [TS]

01:25:29   those five guys and they are going to [TS]

01:25:32   yell and they're going to say they're [TS]

01:25:34   going to say crazy things to you about [TS]

01:25:37   because you are taking you are taking [TS]

01:25:39   from them and it's in that case eat you [TS]

01:25:41   I again I don't know if it's the next [TS]

01:25:42   year metonymy you are the government [TS]

01:25:44   that person is standing up there [TS]

01:25:45   delivering that bad news they may not [TS]

01:25:47   even have had that much of a say in yeah [TS]

01:25:50   it'll go there the government and their [TS]

01:25:52   inability to do anything about it makes [TS]

01:25:54   them even more hateable yeah and what's [TS]

01:25:57   up what's incredible about our country [TS]

01:25:59   right now is that those five guys who [TS]

01:26:00   own that hillsides covered with trees [TS]

01:26:02   have convinced fifty percent of the [TS]

01:26:06   country to be just as mad as they are [TS]

01:26:10   about it you know fifty percent of the [TS]

01:26:13   country the whole town now is mad about [TS]

01:26:15   whether or not these guys should be [TS]

01:26:17   allowed to cut down those trees and [TS]

01:26:20   create an inevitable mudslide that that [TS]

01:26:22   that blocks the river and you know and [TS]

01:26:26   there are people saying show us the [TS]

01:26:28   report and there are people saying [TS]

01:26:29   property rights above all and there are [TS]

01:26:31   people saying who decides and then [TS]

01:26:36   there's that you know then there's the [TS]

01:26:38   the government that's like well shit you [TS]

01:26:40   guys seriously did you really do I have [TS]

01:26:43   to show you every time this has happened [TS]

01:26:45   before do I have to show me come on [TS]

01:26:46   sweet we need to just make this decision [TS]

01:26:49   and it's got to get made and you have [TS]

01:26:51   sympathy for those people but you also [TS]

01:26:53   say what do you think is the proper [TS]

01:26:55   amount of evidence that they should have [TS]

01:26:58   presented to them like you know you [TS]

01:27:00   you're pretty skeptical guy you don't [TS]

01:27:02   like being ripped off [TS]

01:27:03   well how do you so when the club owner [TS]

01:27:04   says I'm you know I agreed to pay this [TS]

01:27:07   much or less even say that so I don't [TS]

01:27:09   know how I can give you an example [TS]

01:27:10   without you find a great loophole but [TS]

01:27:12   let's say they want to give you less [TS]

01:27:13   than you expected [TS]

01:27:14   like what the evidence that you would [TS]

01:27:16   accept told you sure it's the same in [TS]

01:27:19   every aspect if somebody you know I know [TS]

01:27:21   a lot of people have somebody on Twitter [TS]

01:27:22   writes them whispers response to one of [TS]

01:27:25   your tweets and says so [TS]

01:27:26   q you don't know what you're talking [TS]

01:27:27   about that they just blocked that person [TS]

01:27:29   immediately because they just there they [TS]

01:27:32   don't need that in their lives for me if [TS]

01:27:35   somebody I pft that says fuck you you [TS]

01:27:39   don't know what you're talking about i [TS]

01:27:40   always reply can i block these people [TS]

01:27:43   for you so you don't even have to see [TS]

01:27:44   them John i always reply because [TS]

01:27:46   twenty-five percent of the time there [TS]

01:27:49   was a guy yesterday who listen to our [TS]

01:27:52   podcast on depression and wrote me a [TS]

01:27:57   tweet I swear to you Merlin wrote me a [TS]

01:27:59   tweet that said fuck you ! depression is [TS]

01:28:05   easy to cure you just have to try [TS]

01:28:10   fuck you that's that sounds like [TS]

01:28:14   trolling who knows what it was but I [TS]

01:28:18   mean how did you get person believed [TS]

01:28:19   that well so I so the thing is if I had [TS]

01:28:22   blocked him i would never know [TS]

01:28:24   so what i wrote it was gee sounds like [TS]

01:28:28   you've really got depression under [TS]

01:28:30   control like good on you know you you [TS]

01:28:33   sound super healthy which is sarcastic [TS]

01:28:38   but also an opportunity for this person [TS]

01:28:43   to stop and think about what they just [TS]

01:28:45   did and this morning I wake up and I [TS]

01:28:48   have a tweet from this guy going i [TS]

01:28:50   apologize i was rude i have i've deleted [TS]

01:28:57   that tweet and I'm embarrassed that I've [TS]

01:28:59   become tweet delete guy and I had no [TS]

01:29:03   there was i have no right to talk to you [TS]

01:29:04   that what happened to our seattle to you [TS]

01:29:06   got you got somebody deleted a tweet you [TS]

01:29:08   yeah and so huh [TS]

01:29:11   that right there is the amount of due [TS]

01:29:15   diligence and then I think anybody is [TS]

01:29:18   owed because there are all kinds of [TS]

01:29:21   people out there who are going to say [TS]

01:29:23   what fuck you know and if you say yeah [TS]

01:29:27   okay you sound like you're a little mad [TS]

01:29:29   now you want to talk about it anyway [TS]

01:29:32   when people say that to you [TS]

01:29:33   I do because I'm because I [TS]

01:29:37   I always think about how mad I am haha [TS]

01:29:40   but but you give him that chance and if [TS]

01:29:44   they if they come back and say oh my god [TS]

01:29:47   I'm sorry I'm so embarrassed [TS]

01:29:49   then you know that you're dealing with [TS]

01:29:50   the at least the beginning of a [TS]

01:29:53   reasonable person if their response to [TS]

01:29:56   that is [TS]

01:29:57   fuck you then they're blocked and you [TS]

01:30:00   know and if there if you do if you do [TS]

01:30:01   that in a city council meeting and they [TS]

01:30:03   say fuck you you know my feelings you [TS]

01:30:07   have you have shown them all the reports [TS]

01:30:08   you need to show him right up but that [TS]

01:30:10   is not how necessarily a democracy works [TS]

01:30:13   that is how supertrain works [TS]

01:30:15   Oh everybody as super train ploughs [TS]

01:30:18   across the land everybody will get a [TS]

01:30:20   chance to read the report but they're [TS]

01:30:23   gonna get one chance to read it seems [TS]

01:30:24   like a lot of people will understand it [TS]

01:30:26   on the face of it will understand a [TS]

01:30:28   crane a cloth people understand a claw [TS]

01:30:32   on a train it's just something you [TS]

01:30:34   understand even illiterate people even [TS]

01:30:37   people who don't speak English you're [TS]

01:30:38   going to see the claw on the train [TS]

01:30:39   coming and they're gonna go i get this [TS]

01:30:42   I grass is it i mean it is certainly [TS]

01:30:45   maybe not in national census day it will [TS]

01:30:47   involve a certain kind of eminent domain [TS]

01:30:49   oh so my struggle and understanding a [TS]

01:30:53   little the name of super train is is [TS]

01:30:57   eminent domain to be written across the [TS]

01:30:59   front of the engine in script and but [TS]

01:31:02   don't make letter so they can see it [TS]

01:31:04   coming [TS]

01:31:04   it's flashing Christ comes the eminent [TS]

01:31:07   down the eight-minute domain has arrived [TS]

01:31:09   and the claw is like the claw is [TS]

01:31:13   choosing which houses which forested [TS]

01:31:15   hills from it from a distance again here [TS]

01:31:18   you could just be the claw is just [TS]

01:31:23   warming up people here and getting [TS]

01:31:24   closer and closer i love it and remain [TS]

01:31:33   first I is is probably running too long [TS]

01:31:39   but I am epic think that was probably [TS]

01:31:42   good [TS]

01:31:42   yeah why had a good anko OU what was it [TS]

01:31:45   so important but not what I want to hear [TS]

01:31:47   an anecdote that you know thank you for [TS]

01:31:49   me it's your show well [TS]

01:31:50   I am i I'm trying to grow is pursuing [TS]

01:31:53   general this out for Cleveland I'm the [TS]

01:31:56   editor on the decider i'm not in the [TS]

01:31:58   eminent domain owner that's true in this [TS]

01:32:00   sense in the show you are absolutely the [TS]

01:32:03   mayor I'm not the man that I'm so that [TS]

01:32:06   the mayor of open-air okay you are the [TS]

01:32:08   US the city bureaucrat on the rock and [TS]

01:32:10   roll county executive of the podcast I [TS]

01:32:13   admire your work and I have a limited [TS]

01:32:15   amount of power [TS]

01:32:16   yeah but I'm exercise it with you [TS]

01:32:20   probably but you need to go right home [TS]

01:32:21   and not but I want to hear your amex [TS]

01:32:23   notes i'll save it save it for another [TS]

01:32:24   show i just know it's just on the train [TS]

01:32:27   is just something that has become for me [TS]

01:32:31   well I don't know why but I i keep [TS]

01:32:33   coming up with this these things that [TS]

01:32:34   used to happen to me that are that are [TS]

01:32:37   making me sympathetic to the people who [TS]

01:32:41   are getting yelled at when they're [TS]

01:32:42   trying to help you you know what I mean [TS]

01:32:44   and it's a note to me it sums up a lot [TS]

01:32:47   of what you're talking about and and [TS]

01:32:48   this is you know I you know when we [TS]

01:32:51   first met I was doing web development [TS]

01:32:53   and project management as as my [TS]

01:32:55   livelihood and I've been doing that [TS]

01:32:56   since 1995 and when i started doing that [TS]

01:32:59   1995 I'm part of my job in some ways [TS]

01:33:03   which was educating people about why the [TS]

01:33:05   fuck they would want a website and what [TS]

01:33:07   is the internet I mean to be honest [TS]

01:33:09   there are a lot of people who didn't you [TS]

01:33:11   know I wasn't making a lot of money from [TS]

01:33:13   it but nevertheless you know they would [TS]

01:33:14   they would sooner try and get an AOL [TS]

01:33:16   keyword then they would try to get a [TS]

01:33:17   website that why i don't have that I [TS]

01:33:19   don't look at those why would anybody [TS]

01:33:21   else and that got easier over time but [TS]

01:33:23   the opacity of how internet technology [TS]

01:33:25   works which is something i'm certainly [TS]

01:33:27   not the master of that stuff but I i [TS]

01:33:29   will tell you that that most people I [TS]

01:33:30   work with [TS]

01:33:31   we're hiring me because of the tiny bit [TS]

01:33:33   of expertise i had and basically talking [TS]

01:33:35   to them figuring out what they wanted [TS]

01:33:38   turning it into a graphical web site and [TS]

01:33:40   then using a basic ftp technology to put [TS]

01:33:44   it onto a web server where people could [TS]

01:33:46   get to it and that's what my job was my [TS]

01:33:48   job was to try and make a graphical [TS]

01:33:50   design for a website and then put it up [TS]

01:33:53   and then they look at it in the browser [TS]

01:33:55   and then maybe you know emails get sent [TS]

01:33:58   through a little perl script form so [TS]

01:34:00   they can make informed people that [TS]

01:34:02   people can use to send them [TS]

01:34:03   male and so forth but there's a funny [TS]

01:34:05   thing that happens in actually is a [TS]

01:34:07   wonderful tumblr called clients from [TS]

01:34:08   hell that covers a lot of these kinds of [TS]

01:34:10   stories but one thing that used to [TS]

01:34:11   happen to me a surprising amount of the [TS]

01:34:13   time was that I would get a call from a [TS]

01:34:17   client often a client that hadn't been a [TS]

01:34:19   client for several months and they would [TS]

01:34:22   say things like and if anybody has ever [TS]

01:34:25   done this for a living is already [TS]

01:34:26   nodding because this happens all the [TS]

01:34:29   time so people call me up and they say I [TS]

01:34:31   can't get to my website [TS]

01:34:33   ok you can get your website is it i [TS]

01:34:35   would say was I'm that can see it from [TS]

01:34:36   here and saying no it's not but nothing [TS]

01:34:39   is coming up well and you see where this [TS]

01:34:43   is going [TS]

01:34:44   so basically in order for them to not [TS]

01:34:46   feel like I'm a dick i would have to [TS]

01:34:48   trace through whether their computer was [TS]

01:34:50   on whether they were in a web browser [TS]

01:34:53   whether whether whether they're ethernet [TS]

01:34:58   cable is plugged in John weather haha [TS]

01:35:01   what you know whether their isp was down [TS]

01:35:05   and so all you know what whereas they [TS]

01:35:07   hired me to make them a website and put [TS]

01:35:10   it up and who knows maybe I frame that [TS]

01:35:12   badly now I'm the one who has to tell [TS]

01:35:14   them whether they're Hayes modem is [TS]

01:35:15   configured configured correctly with the [TS]

01:35:17   right codes & ampersand in order to get [TS]

01:35:19   a signal or I'm the one trying to tell [TS]

01:35:21   their credit card expired on AOL or I'm [TS]

01:35:23   the one explaining that they're using a [TS]

01:35:25   five-year-old web browser or or I'm the [TS]

01:35:28   one telling that the because the right [TS]

01:35:29   there brother-in-law's house on a [TS]

01:35:31   different size screen that's how the [TS]

01:35:33   color all fucked up that's that you're [TS]

01:35:35   seeing something that's really screwed [TS]

01:35:37   up and I don't have the ability to do [TS]

01:35:40   anything about any of that but now I'm [TS]

01:35:43   the dick like I got you know thing was [TS]

01:35:45   I'm accessible like you knew how to call [TS]

01:35:47   me or you knew how to email me I was [TS]

01:35:50   gracious enough to talk to you even [TS]

01:35:51   though your check didn't clear maybe two [TS]

01:35:53   years ago but you know I always felt in [TS]

01:35:57   a really funny and frustrated position [TS]

01:35:59   because there's nothing I could say to [TS]

01:36:02   that person that didn't sound like me [TS]

01:36:03   making a bunch of excuses right all i [TS]

01:36:06   know is i can't get to my website [TS]

01:36:08   well I i know we can all I can really [TS]

01:36:11   tell you is that it [TS]

01:36:12   that doesn't have anything to do with [TS]

01:36:14   the website that I may [TS]

01:36:16   well then why did i pay you a hundred [TS]

01:36:18   and seven dollars to make me a website [TS]

01:36:20   well and I never realized that might [TS]

01:36:22   sound really really extreme but but when [TS]

01:36:25   I think about that person the DMV at the [TS]

01:36:27   DMV or I think about that person they [TS]

01:36:29   think about the fireman he's trying to [TS]

01:36:31   fire fighter who's trying to get people [TS]

01:36:33   out of that building you know to explain [TS]

01:36:36   how it is that these peculiar [TS]

01:36:39   interaction of oxygen and heat with the [TS]

01:36:43   error that causes would in particular to [TS]

01:36:45   be a particularly inflammable and its [TS]

01:36:47   buildings are made out of what like to [TS]

01:36:49   have to explain all that when they're [TS]

01:36:51   going why are you being such a screaming [TS]

01:36:52   asshole [TS]

01:36:53   yeah 1 i'm being screaming asshole [TS]

01:36:55   because on the screaming asshole who [TS]

01:36:56   might save your life right and by the [TS]

01:36:59   same token if they went to the [TS]

01:37:00   firefighter and said wire [TS]

01:37:01   why isn't there a stoplight by southgate [TS]

01:37:03   mall he could say well eh I don't have [TS]

01:37:06   anything to do with stoplights even [TS]

01:37:07   though i'm technically in the [TS]

01:37:08   quote-unquote government and you get [TS]

01:37:10   your fucking ass out of the building [TS]

01:37:12   yeah and i think i think that the the [TS]

01:37:14   interesting part of that if there is an [TS]

01:37:17   interesting part is that for my clients [TS]

01:37:19   that I had and these are the kinds of [TS]

01:37:21   clients who you know there's things like [TS]

01:37:22   you would see classic stories you know [TS]

01:37:24   the old jokes about people who put their [TS]

01:37:26   drink in the CD holder the people who [TS]

01:37:28   touch the mouse of the screen with their [TS]

01:37:30   Mouse the people who always go to yahoo [TS]

01:37:33   to search for websites [TS]

01:37:35   everybody's got these everybody in my [TS]

01:37:36   family who is older than my age [TS]

01:37:38   DoubleClick's links they double click [TS]

01:37:41   every link and I tell me you know you [TS]

01:37:42   don't need to double-click the agent [TS]

01:37:43   click that once so on the asshole right [TS]

01:37:46   up but my point being that it isn't like [TS]

01:37:49   we have to understand everything about [TS]

01:37:52   how a computer works but it would be [TS]

01:37:54   nice to understand enough in that case [TS]

01:37:56   to know who to call and whether it's [TS]

01:37:59   helpful to yell at anybody [TS]

01:38:01   yeah and and that's what I feel like [TS]

01:38:02   when the point only is tiny point I'm [TS]

01:38:04   trying to make about the whole like the [TS]

01:38:07   people who show up those meetings [TS]

01:38:09   well like for example on pals with the [TS]

01:38:10   guy who's our merchant Association [TS]

01:38:12   liaison for our neighborhood that and [TS]

01:38:15   basically the only people who show up [TS]

01:38:17   for anything [TS]

01:38:18   it's like this handful of Chinese ladies [TS]

01:38:20   with an agenda and then I'll take care [TS]

01:38:22   of that i'll do that i'll do that [TS]

01:38:23   because they know that they're so [TS]

01:38:25   there's there's so much stuff that could [TS]

01:38:28   be done [TS]

01:38:29   they're going to make sure that the only [TS]

01:38:30   stuff that gets done is the stuff that [TS]

01:38:31   benefits them nobody else is going to [TS]

01:38:33   those meetings but it isn't until [TS]

01:38:34   there's no 35 bubble drink places and in [TS]

01:38:38   75 verizon stores that people go our [TS]

01:38:40   neighborhoods getting kind of weird and [TS]

01:38:42   it's safe everybody if everybody showed [TS]

01:38:44   up and followed everything they go to [TS]

01:38:46   all of those meetings and they learn to [TS]

01:38:48   understand how that works but that's the [TS]

01:38:50   downside of the way that a system like [TS]

01:38:52   ours works is that the bigger it gets [TS]

01:38:53   the more moving parts that are the [TS]

01:38:55   harder it is to understand and into the [TS]

01:38:57   general point that the more abstraction [TS]

01:38:59   there is between that messenger who had [TS]

01:39:02   to bring that unhappy message to the [TS]

01:39:03   hill people and the and the the myriad [TS]

01:39:06   number of this of connections in this [TS]

01:39:08   fucked-up game of telephone that ever [TS]

01:39:10   led to that meeting of occurring in the [TS]

01:39:11   first place and so I you know I i take [TS]

01:39:14   you the larger point about like people [TS]

01:39:16   in there you know I just think this is a [TS]

01:39:18   basic human problem that we could all be [TS]

01:39:20   better at on a personal level which is [TS]

01:39:22   understanding that the person who picks [TS]

01:39:24   up the phone and is willing to listen to [TS]

01:39:26   you complain is not necessarily the [TS]

01:39:27   person who's to blame for your tax bill [TS]

01:39:30   yeah and and you know the government [TS]

01:39:32   when you said government like what not [TS]

01:39:33   you but like what the fuck does that [TS]

01:39:34   mean that's like that's like saying you [TS]

01:39:36   blame the universe [TS]

01:39:38   I mean the government is you know people [TS]

01:39:40   in that aid vehicle who picked you up [TS]

01:39:42   off the street you know it's you know [TS]

01:39:45   it's the people working at Hetch Hetchy [TS]

01:39:46   that bringing my water it's you know [TS]

01:39:49   it's just the lies such a it is time for [TS]

01:39:52   azhar it's time for somebody either [TS]

01:39:54   explain this process to people in a way [TS]

01:39:56   that they can't control or get away from [TS]

01:39:58   or to make it not matter anymore and [TS]

01:40:00   bring a claw into it that's the only [TS]

01:40:02   solution because i think people are [TS]

01:40:03   basically this emotionally driven by [TS]

01:40:06   these things and that emotion quickly [TS]

01:40:09   turns into like what this means about [TS]

01:40:12   the universe and and then when you try [TS]

01:40:14   to make public policy based on that [TS]

01:40:15   you're going to have a total clusterfuck [TS]

01:40:17   yeah yeah and you know that farmer stop [TS]

01:40:20   for a minute and said oh ok this is [TS]

01:40:22   really matter if i want to scare her way [TS]

01:40:23   here but it's a slippery slope [TS]

01:40:25   I've got to protect my my thing you know [TS]

01:40:26   what I mean it's so anyway I that's the [TS]

01:40:29   way I look at it because it's helped me [TS]

01:40:30   for one thing with being less frustrated [TS]

01:40:32   when somebody yells at me because I can [TS]

01:40:34   honestly say to them look I you're [TS]

01:40:37   trying to solve the wrong problem and [TS]

01:40:38   you're yelling at the wrong guy [TS]

01:40:40   well like you say i think that i think [TS]

01:40:43   the introduction of the concept of [TS]

01:40:45   abstraction is the key one who because [TS]

01:40:47   that's the big pattern as it gets more [TS]

01:40:49   abstract with this funny thing happens [TS]

01:40:52   which is that people think that they're [TS]

01:40:56   now dealing with a world of unlimited [TS]

01:40:58   possibility like in in cases where [TS]

01:41:03   people understand the whole chain of [TS]

01:41:05   events they also understand where their [TS]

01:41:10   where there's no more you can do you [TS]

01:41:14   know what I mean like if your if your [TS]

01:41:18   kid falls through the ice and you're [TS]

01:41:21   standing on the side of the lake and [TS]

01:41:22   you're saying [TS]

01:41:23   help help rescue my kid and the firemen [TS]

01:41:29   goes crawls out on the ice and the [TS]

01:41:31   firemen falls through [TS]

01:41:34   at a certain point you understand that [TS]

01:41:37   no one can rescue your kid because you [TS]

01:41:40   watched it you watch the firemen crawl [TS]

01:41:42   out on the ice and fall through and [TS]

01:41:44   there's nothing there [TS]

01:41:45   you know there isn't any magic that you [TS]

01:41:47   can bring to bear on this situation and [TS]

01:41:51   so if your kid drowned in it in that [TS]

01:41:53   Lake you have a certain amount of [TS]

01:41:56   there's no one to blame you know the kid [TS]

01:41:59   just fell through the ice and the final [TS]

01:42:01   training resident in that moment in that [TS]

01:42:03   moment and and and for the rest of your [TS]

01:42:05   life you have a kind of peace with it [TS]

01:42:07   we're like I was there I saw it all [TS]

01:42:10   happen i understand that that my kid [TS]

01:42:15   couldn't be rescued [TS]

01:42:16   but if you are standing if your kid [TS]

01:42:20   falls through the ice and there's a fire [TS]

01:42:22   truck there with a giant a crane and you [TS]

01:42:27   say help my kid and the firemen says the [TS]

01:42:30   crane isn't rated to be extended that [TS]

01:42:34   far [TS]

01:42:35   om then it is still true just as true [TS]

01:42:41   that there that they have no technology [TS]

01:42:43   that can reach your kid but you don't [TS]

01:42:46   understand anymore you know and and even [TS]

01:42:51   though the firemen knows if he extends [TS]

01:42:52   the crane that far the whole fire trucks [TS]

01:42:54   going to tip over into the lake but [TS]

01:42:57   being unable to demonstrate here he had [TS]

01:43:00   a reason so but he had a reason to say [TS]

01:43:03   look lady I don't know you know I i [TS]

01:43:05   would love to help you any way I can but [TS]

01:43:07   if i do that ten people might die right [TS]

01:43:09   but now there's this abstraction of the [TS]

01:43:13   crane and what its load limit is and [TS]

01:43:15   what how far you can extend it and what [TS]

01:43:17   the possibilities are that introduces [TS]

01:43:20   the concept that maybe if he had just [TS]

01:43:22   done it it would have worked [TS]

01:43:25   and so then when your kid drowns you're [TS]

01:43:28   full of resentment your full you layout [TS]

01:43:31   you lay awake at night and think why [TS]

01:43:33   didn't they just extend the crane why [TS]

01:43:35   didn't they just take that risk and you [TS]

01:43:38   see this in your computer in your [TS]

01:43:40   computer world [TS]

01:43:41   the less people know about computers [TS]

01:43:43   the more they actually think anything [TS]

01:43:45   can happen that you can just touch it [TS]

01:43:48   with your elbow and it suddenly starts [TS]

01:43:51   working because that's what it looks [TS]

01:43:52   like to them who so they get mad at you [TS]

01:43:55   get disproportionately mad and [TS]

01:43:57   frustrated with the with you know [TS]

01:44:01   inversely proportionate to the amount of [TS]

01:44:03   understanding they have about how the [TS]

01:44:05   thing works and you're sitting there [TS]

01:44:06   going [TS]

01:44:06   listen you're just asking me to do [TS]

01:44:07   something that does not it is not in [TS]

01:44:10   just now that'sthat's to abstractions [TS]

01:44:13   that duel you exactly now that it's two [TS]

01:44:15   completely not paradoxical but contrast [TS]

01:44:17   me maybe paradoxical on the one hand [TS]

01:44:19   these fucking computers don't work and [TS]

01:44:22   then on the other hand what the fuck [TS]

01:44:23   these components computers are supposed [TS]

01:44:24   to be able to do everything and maybe [TS]

01:44:26   you're making the same picture night you [TS]

01:44:28   but they're really that you're kind of [TS]

01:44:29   saying different things you're saying on [TS]

01:44:30   the one hand I knew this thing was [TS]

01:44:32   bullshit like I know this government is [TS]

01:44:34   crooked and screwed up and off and and [TS]

01:44:37   that isn't doing it but oh my god the [TS]

01:44:38   government should be able to do this [TS]

01:44:40   it's the government and they've got all [TS]

01:44:41   that money right now but those are both [TS]

01:44:44   those are both you know could be [TS]

01:44:45   potentially true and it's at me you're [TS]

01:44:47   absolutely right it is it is people [TS]

01:44:49   saying like already i know that [TS]

01:44:51   government doesn't work because if [TS]

01:44:53   government works we would all be living [TS]

01:44:55   in undersea cities by now who you know [TS]

01:44:58   if government worked [TS]

01:45:00   why would there be why why are there [TS]

01:45:03   port and Eisenhower would have made in [TS]

01:45:05   Atlantis years ago [TS]

01:45:06   yeah we should we should all be living [TS]

01:45:07   in Atlantis and the fact that we're not [TS]

01:45:09   means the government doesn't work and [TS]

01:45:11   it's like do you really not understand [TS]

01:45:13   the government is people [TS]

01:45:14   yeah fuckin people fucking people [TS]

01:45:20   [Music] [TS]