Roderick on the Line

00:00:00 ◼   ► and [TS]

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► whenever I say your name when you're not [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► around I do it to the tune of nasty boys [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► by janet jackson i don't know why but I [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► don't care why I just love it [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► iceland man i'm just glad I'm glad you [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► think of me i def for you I i always do [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► Mercedes boy how does that go see do you [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► want a ride on my John Roderick oh my [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► sounds I never really held during your [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► name sounds like Peter O'Toole [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► oh that's stealing from Groucho Marx [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► there's so many ways I'm like Peter [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► O'Toole and a few crucial ways I'm not [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► you're tall you're slender your English [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► mm you're in dashing in that Pixar movie [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► I like drunk i enjoy him i really enjoy [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► him in the other room there's another [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► one on the mpr there's a show that [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► sponsored by the Robert Wood Johnson [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► Foundation I laugh out loud every time [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► here but I want Robert to be a nickname [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► too just because you can get the Triple [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► Threat thick wood johnson his [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► lesser-known brother Richard they didn't [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► need a good name the foundation after [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► him they just they found the grants for [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► just disappearing my eyes you know I'm [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► not a physicist but ah well sell [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► yourself short you're sweet [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► my question is do you think there might [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► be some chance that you have some kind [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► of a slight electrical charge that [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► causes any electronic devices in your [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► vicinity to fail [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► well it's interesting at I don't believe [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► in curses and i am i'm much more [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► inclined to attribute the fact that all [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► my equipment my my computer equipment in [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► particular fails I i tribute that to the [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► fact that computers are computers [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► although we we use them every day and we [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► think that they're great they are at the [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► level of development that the airplane [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► was when it was powered by bicycle [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► motors and had had to have seven guys on [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► each wing to get them aloft like we are [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► still at the dawn of this era and these [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► machines my Apple here in front of me [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► which I which I love it's very beautiful [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► i'm crossing it now [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► but it is up it is a it is other horse [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► it doesn't do any of the things that it [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► claims to do it doesn't do any of them [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► it doesn't do any of the things that [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► even managed to eke out it doesn't do [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► those things well and it just sits here [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► on my table top as a as like a like a a [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► talisman of all of all the potential i [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► mean i can imagine what it would do it [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► I i can imagine that my children will [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► will love their computers and watch [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► movies on them sluice live streaming and [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► there will be no glitches but for me [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► it's just it's just it's all potential [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► it's there's no kinetic energy to these [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► things I find I i find it baffling you [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► seem like you [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► hmm i'm just for what it's worth i would [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► add another clinic or something you can [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► go to but you should check the charge [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► thing because i think that you live hard [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► you play hard I think your heart your [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► heart on things while you were you were [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► you thinking of his sexual chemistry and [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► that doesn't affect computers i do have [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► it it is powerful but as far as i know [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► it does it shouldn't affect the [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► computers [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► okay you know what you know what I would [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► run a connectivity diagnostic to see but [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► it had it would it would only tell me [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► that the computer is having problems and [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► couldn't connect [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► mhm it's not gonna add you know a lot of [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► diagonal the word diagnostic means [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► diagnose and you can tell you what the [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► you know that's good haha that the root [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► of diagnostic diagnose Frank diagnose [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► okay from the Greek god knows which [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► means to know what is the problem and I [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► running in diet meaning across daya [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► across or to lose weight [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► um and this is the diagnostic program [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► does nothing it just tells me that it [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► can't connect and then there's something [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► else that can connect and then pretty [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► soon I'm walking around reading a book [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► out loud to myself and and and happier [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► frankly see strike me as somebody who is [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► not a turn light is overused you're not [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► a willful light but you seemed to revel [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► in in the physical objects of life more [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► than the virtual things and when you use [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► these tools you you are [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► you seem to use them for a purpose i [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► don't see you just kinda sitting around [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► well I don't see you know usually but [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► then I know you're an mp3 tag or so you [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► knew a little you know i would i would [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► kick around on the computer happily but [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► it but it just it fails to live up to my [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► expectations [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► I'll see a big hands and you have became [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► you might be having hidden two keys at [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► once or something you know what this [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► whole idea that maybe it's the sexual [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► chemistry thing I'm gonna look into that [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► because it's possible it that that has [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► caused me problems and other walks of [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► life [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► mhm sure I mean it gets me out of [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► traffic tickets when the woman when the [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► cop is a woman must look a little [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► cinemax little cinemax Police Department [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► here's the thing [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► the problem is you're going to go to UW [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► gonna go to the the highly lauded I [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► believe sexual chemistry clinic and it's [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► gonna be some lady who's working on a [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► graduate degree she's probably her hair [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► in a bun she's got big big big glasses [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► you're gonna walk in there and say [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► please find out what my problem is [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► help me write but they're right there [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► that's the root of the problem before [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► she even gets the clipboard out the hair [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► is down the glasses are off [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► that's right and and she's up on the [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► desk who and then and then Alex Van [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► Halen plays the drum solo and then this [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► happens to me on a weekly basis [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► I don't even know how Alex knows where I [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► am he seems to always know where I'm [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► going to be he's good with those eight [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► he plays the that song hot for teacher [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► basically double double double kick drum [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► thing that he does that right he does [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► but it isn't a double-double pick them [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► as far as i know how about a little [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► paddle double pass not a double pedal as [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► far as i know he's playing that with a [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► single kick drum pedal must have [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► outstanding ankles I got that's true [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► mm it's eventually going to get to in a [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► jury's gonna have to get one of those [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► def leppard deals he's gonna have to get [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► everything triggered a fake arm he does [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► he have a fact that he was just rolling [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► you know Roland mono third arm [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► urw are you a big Def Leppard fan back [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► in the day right there overlooking read [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► with a pre pyromania era def leppard was [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► the operator pyromania was the was the [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► the bridge that I had a hard time [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► crossing everything before pyromania i [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► thought was solid gold because it is [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► solid gold pyromania now I look back I [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► realize it's a great record [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► the time very hard for me to swallow [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► some of those keyboards and all that [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► yeah and it but the thing is back in the [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► day the guitar players like 15 [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► yeah it was amazing now this is all [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► before Shania Twain right this is this [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► is mud length should retain what are you [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► talking about [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► is that not the wash my ears out is that [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► record not produced by Robert mile mile [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► and will also take highway to hell i [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► believe but but he but tonight was like [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► 15 years later okay I'm just saying but [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► you go back you go back you listen even [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► to bringing on the heartbreak and there [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► is a certain polish glitzy shyness to [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► that you would not here in venom [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► oriental I'd or your beloved Slater [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► you're not gonna hear in venom for sure [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► uh yeah but that polish you know ACDC [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► you can polish ACDC all day long it's [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► still going to be hardcore right I think [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► that's why that record stands up so well [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► though is that the songs were tired I'm [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► sure can influence on that the song i [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► mean i love you know me we go back we go [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► back with ac/dc but i'm telling you i [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► think for a bonds post bonds got record [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► i think that one stands up pretty well [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► it's partly because it's very listenable [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► it's super listenable and I think what [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► might lang did then is what producers [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► should do which is they listen to the [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► band and they say yeah that's good did [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► you think about trying a little harder [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► next time [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► did you think about trying a little [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► harder on the next take like sing it [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► like you mean it and play it like you [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► mean it ok go and and i think in the [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► last 10 years last 20 years producers I [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► mean every kid with a with a Macintosh [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► computer in GarageBand now calls himself [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► a producer couch and bands yeah i know [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► that you present company excepted sure [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► Berlin you are a brilliant producer but [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► there are a lot of people out there who [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► are actually you are actually selling [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► themselves to bands as producers and the [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► bands come in they play their song the [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► guy you know turn some reverb on egos [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► sounds great and it doesn't sound great [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► you know but that but the guy that [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► that's recording them doesn't know [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► enough to say to say one thing the other [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► to say like i am you know [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► kill that second snare hit or whatever [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► that the little the little details that [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► that producers that the good producers [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► add to make good records great minds [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► even in the old days and no matter how [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► much I spend I I don't know how to [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► describe this but like and i have never [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► done anything I've ever done and [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► recorded since whatever 1986 has never [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► been anything is meticulous is what you [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► do because you really do like you have [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► the ears to hear these little things and [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► I know you've got the bedding today with [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► i love garageband just because I think [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► of it almost like because it's like the [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► difference between exit sketch and [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► having a big box of paint like I know [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► that I i think i know the limitations of [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► this and i just love because it's so [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► fast for me yeah right and I've gotten [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► really comfortable using it but that's [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► where do i go back and I'm just listen [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► to other spam where they called cheer [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► accident i was listening to and it's [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► like I just the latest thing i bought [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► and she go back and listen to any of [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► those Yusuf obviously flight bags and we [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► didn't like pretty much any record by [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► somebody good at colton's record and [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► like there's like a nice to this [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► interview call the other day like [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► there's so much like personality to [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► every song they all sound different [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► it doesn't just sound like somebody [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► selected Stadium in in the output [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► setting you know and it doesn't you know [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► every tracks it's great it's great for [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► prototyping but that's one thing i like [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► about many things i like about your [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► music like about your your records is [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► that there's there's so much there is a [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► lot of personality and I don't know you [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► so on the one hand we talked about this [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► with some interviews while back and we [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► talked about how the process works for [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► you at every level and it seems like [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► there is a contrast between it seems [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► like you record with relative don't know [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► what the word is but it's not that [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► you're sloppy or something but like you [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► said you're not going to do 42 takes of [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► a song but then it seems like you you're [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► very careful in the editing and [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► listening and definitely in the in the [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► track order processing you almost seem [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► to function more like an editor some [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► ways [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► well the M in terms of how many passes [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► i'm going to do on a on a vocal tract uh [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► you're absolutely right i won't i won't [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► sit and work on vocal tract as the [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► performer all day but i will be super [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► meticulous about getting [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► about you know adding little surprise [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► moments little teeny tinkles and [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► twinkles and I think that some of that [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► is that I came of age in the recording [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► era when all that stuff became more and [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► more possible it's the John Vanderslice [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► ization of indie rock where you have [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► that you have the time you have the [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► resources and you have the inclination [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► to put a keyboard part on a song that [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► will never reappear that doesn't that [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► sound doesn't appear anywhere else on [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► the record it's just a it's a two second [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► thing that that you feel like is at [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► one-hundred percent necessarily on this [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► tune and if you if you think back to a [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► when they recorded the house of the [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► rising sun right they got four guys in a [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► room and they said roll it and they they [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► ran the song and then they started [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► drinking like it if they didn't spend [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► months and months putting littles on [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► there there [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► I mean what they did was they spent [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► months and months rehearsing and that's [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► something I guess in indie rock we don't [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► do as much or at least we don't do as [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► much it was also a time though it [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► strikes me that that was a time when [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► yeah it was certainly more primitive [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► recording conditions but don't you think [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► this is wrong but I think that's also [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► rock music was not taking it seriously [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► it was not seen as an already thing like [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► in whatever 1964-65 and the Beatles were [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► starting that but I mean was really [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► until 67 68 people took the time and the [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► polish and I wonder if in some ways it [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► was just seen as more of a commodity you [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► know where columbia records and this [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► giant roster of people in the message it [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► and certainly things like Phil Spector I [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► mean they must have just said okay let's [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► bring a bunch of pros in monkeys whoever [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► you bring a bunch of pros and just plow [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► through this as fast as you can [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► yeah it's absolutely right they did not [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► think that 50 years from now those tunes [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► would still be not just relevant but [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► like the the the the underpinning [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► foundation of what remains an entire [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► industry of selling music and culture [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► from 50 years ago [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► I mean they made house of the rising sun [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► which they didn't write it was a cover [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► they did it in one take and they thought [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► that it would go up the charts and then [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► it would go down the charts and they and [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► then that would be that would be the end [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► of it you never hear it again you know [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► or if you did it would be some some [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► bobby-soxer is playing it on their on [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► their little collapsible record player [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► no one ever thought that house of the [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► rising sun would still be played ten [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► times a day on every classic rock radio [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► station across the country and across [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► the world 50 years later 40 years later [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► so you're right they just they jammed it [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► out and they were like next I think when [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► we make music now in the aftermath of [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► that we're conscious i think to our [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► detriment conscious of the fact that [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► potentially we're making it for history [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► potentially one day at the library of [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► congress a man will sit down and listen [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► to all the long winters records and he [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► will identify the keyboard patches and [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► it would be a matter of some import like [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► you think about it that way [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► unconsciously because of the way we've [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► all minutely dissected the Beatles [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► records and the and all those records [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► that we love the pink floyd records like [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► those of us who love recording that we [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► know every single microphone they used [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► on every single part in how many takes [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► they did that without it I and so when [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► you're making music yourself in light of [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► that I mean you can't you almost can't [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► help yourself and that's a pretty high [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► bar though if you're still riding [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► against works kinetically your hyper [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► just hypothetically trying to finish [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► finish a record I that's got to be I [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► mean just you must have friends that are [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► struggle with that at one point or [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► another we all do i don't think i think [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► what's the the great bands and I'm talk [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► about the great bands of now not the [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► great bands of history but the great [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► indie rock bands of now there's always [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► at least one guy in the fan that says or [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► one guy on their team that says this [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► thing's got to get done by by monday the [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► and the other guys you know if they want [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► to take all the time in the world to to [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► screw with the Tambling part monday the [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► 11th is pretty hard it's a hard date so [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► that's something that I have lacked [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► being a free being a sole proprietor and [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► free agents [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► um no one has no one has the authority [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► to tell me that it's let's do a monday [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► the eleventh and so some of tried so [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► many many have tried in fact I've even [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► like I'm even sent people letters and [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► said let's put the black like when you [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► when you call your your wife at work and [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► say tonight let's pretend that you are a [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► nurse coming home or I know [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► no you're a nurse coming for a house [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► call to help a man who has a problem [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► very much like that i have called some [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► of my friends and said let's pretend [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► that you have some authority over me and [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► you are going to come right me angry [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► letter or grab me by the shirt collar [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► and tell me that my records get done by [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► X day and my friends have all been good [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► sports about it and they showed up at my [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► house in the nurse's costume and I said [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► no no I made that what did i send that [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► email to you [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► Oh visual guy you're looking for some [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► kind of constraint [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► yeah that's right i'm not looking for I [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► mean that's the problem you can't you [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► can empower somebody to have power over [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► you if you are empowering them then the [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► power is still yours you can't give them [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► the power and then haven't had any [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► effect on you if you're unless you're [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► really into role-playing right so yeah [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► I've I've I've tried to get somebody to [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► to set a deadline and up until now and I [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► know that has worked but just recently I [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► got a email from my different john [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► hodgman and he said get your record done [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► by labor day sincerely John Hodgman [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► and for some reason the succinct mess of [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► that and reading it aloud in his voice [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► which Brooks no argument is working his [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► voice just naturally Brooks no argument [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► got kinda now you put it that way you're [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► asking almost kind of like a headmaster [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► quality that's right John Hodgman tells [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► you something in the in the infinite [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► definitive voice you don't you're not [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► going to like if you do try and argue [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► with him [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► you're just gonna sound like you're [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► whining no he's gonna say no your record [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► should be done by labor day sincerely [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► that is all sincerely john hodgman and [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► it's actually that has actually had had [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► an effect on me I've been working I've [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► been writing just I think it's because I [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► hold him in high esteem and so I so it's [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► a different it's not you know it's not [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► that I i tasked him with with the with [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► the job of telling me to do it he did it [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► he did it sort of independently as a as [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► a favor and as a writer who has [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► struggled to complete his own work he [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► knows you just you do you need an [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► artificial wall [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► you know what else it is because he's [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► and so I've talked about him and I don't [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► like we're like we're the best friends [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► in the world where not just the guy [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► who's really nice to me that's times you [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► and him but he on he's eep and people [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► like him can have I think can have a [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► tremendous effect not just because of [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► being an expert and former professional [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► liberation but also it's just it's yeah [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► we've talked about this at length you're [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► so surrounded by people everybody is [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► these days especially social media [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► especially in your rock biz but you show [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► surrounded by people who are not [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► precisely 60 fanuc but who never really [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► say true things or or would never say [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► anything to you that was too far at odds [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► with what they perceive to be your thing [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► I i only say that because like to be to [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► have somebody who you really admire give [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► you a note that shows they care about [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► what you do and are interested in your [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► output on i find that to be a weird [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► smack on the head [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► mhm and sometimes it makes you want to [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► finish things other times it makes you [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► wonder why I'm having trouble finishing [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► it because maybe I don't think it's up [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► to par for somebody like John I you know [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► what I'm saying like to me I that's [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► really complicated but don't you think I [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► mean you talked at length about this [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► like so many things the news it's a you [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► know you're surrounded you talk about [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► you know you got everybody's trying to [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► screw you and in you and steal your [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► copper pipe and stuff and and a great [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► line will prevent shown that people can [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► go and watch are extremely long [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► interview where you yell at the hippies [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► and drink seltzer but didn't you find it [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► to be the case I mean you're surrounded [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► people hey man that's great like that's [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► awesome i really like that thing you do [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► with the thing [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► well yeah it's just I the the sickle [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► fantic nature of our culture now is [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► based on this false idea that that that [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► nobody can handle the bad news [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► nobody wants nobody wants anyone to yell [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► at them and so they're so they work very [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► hard to never say anything controversial [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► to never say anything that that might [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► possibly inspire someone to yell at them [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► back you know and so people are talking [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► to each other in this within this this [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► language of like completely failed [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► meaning all the time in a friendly talk [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► happy friendly talk all the time i'm [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► talking about specifically in the arts [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► in the West but and an artist have a [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► tendency to do it because they had to [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► varying degrees they all end up feeling [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► screwed at one time or another by an [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► interviewer i did this happen to you I [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► know where you meet you you feel [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► something that you would consider trying [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► to be honest and then just means [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► everybody but you say something and you [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► know obviously some interviews you [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► assume that they're interested in [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► something you want to say something that [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► you haven't said before and by exposing [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► yourself i'm sure it's happening million [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► times by exposing yourself you get this [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► secret some kind of yeah they make it [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► like fish that they take they take the [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► thing where you say oh that guy's a dick [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► and they make it the headline of their [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► article and you go [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► no I don't think I didn't actually [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► something going like the story that the [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► my feeling my assignment for this story [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► is to get to basically hang out and wait [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► mm-hmm and so this person gives me the [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► quote that I'm looking for [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► yeah best evidence by things like I had [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► an interview wants to just I just [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► stopped after like five minutes because [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► the person was like would you say that [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► you have a really are kind of invented [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► the productivity space online with a [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► blog that has been as jaw-droppingly [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► successful as your husband and I said [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► it's personally not only would i not say [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► that but it's I just can't even [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► articulate you how important it is that [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► you not even pretend that i said that [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► right up [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► this is why I as usual with energy i [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► won't name names because there's a lot [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► of names that can be named when talking [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► with you but I i know at least a couple [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► occasions you have basically said okay [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► this interviews over i'm going to write [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► and send it to you that will be the [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► interview you up [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► I have done bad i was what I really like [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► is a little short interview in a [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► well-known if indeed periodical and I [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► read it like now screener you don't [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► always see you know people don't always [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► get you and you're like yeah well I read [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► it for me [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► yeah I said I you know what I'm gonna [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► I'm gonna make this easy on us both [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► I'm just gonna write your questions and [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► my answers and the hill workout great [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► don't worry all right you're out [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► alright your questions in your voice [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► don't worry I'll just somebody signs [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► somebody asking for an interview i'll [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► start by mailing them back written pull [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► quotes the sounds this existence i mean [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► the whole industries and artifice it's [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► not like we're sitting around you know [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► talking about folk dancing or something [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► this is you know this is people who call [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► you at the last conceivable moment for [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► their deadlines and are looking for [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► something that they can jam into 200 [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► words or whatever in most cases right if [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► you're like a like an actual magazine [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► some it's likely be some long setting [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► aside like a wonderful stranger [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► interview years ago [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► you're not going to get like a five [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► thousand word oh well but even when even [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► if you do I mean I the the interview [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► that comes to mind for me I didn't a [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► long feature in a national magazine at [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► one point about a [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► about some other musicians that i had [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► just been touring with in Spain and they [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► were you know they were sort of [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► legendary characters and this [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► interviewer was he was a super nice guy [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► in a smart guy and we SAT just talked [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► all day and it was it would it had been [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► a very candid tour you know we were on [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► tour together and i was there kind of in [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► a junior capacity just like just sort of [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► feeling lucky to be there and everybody [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► on the tour was really great they [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► embraced me please don't please don't [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► eat off Matthews craft services wasn't [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► like that at all know and and by the end [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► of the tour we were just like you know [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► we we were speaking to each other who as [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► you do old friends so I'm giving this [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► interview a long feature interview and [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► this than the interviewer knows all [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► about this tour and so he's he's asking [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► me all these questions so what was it [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► like and I i I'd only been back a week [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► or so from this thing so I'm still in [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► this mindset like I'm incredibly close [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► friends with these guys my god these [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► guys this is a bunch of nuts and they're [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► drunks in there [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► well these guys are just a bunch of [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► head and this guy's riding it down note [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► 4 nodes and this this massive a article [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► about me comes out like heralding the [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► release of my new record and all the [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► pole quotes are like so anyway these [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► guys are total drugs Jonna and I get it [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► I get some angry phone calls from these [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► people saying like what you know we let [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► you into our our little scene and and [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► this is you know yet this huge national [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► article and your talk about us all feel [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► of things and I was like but but no I i [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► was I thought we were I was doing it all [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► like haha like we're friends and they're [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► like boo and they're there are a couple [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► of guys from that scene that still I [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► mean that the what the guys from that [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► that whole world that were that I was [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► genuinely close to understood and it it [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► probably wouldn't have happened to them [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► because they wouldn't have been they [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► they would never have let their guard [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► down that way in an interview and it did [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► happen to me and it sort of cauterized [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► me a little bit particularly about [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► talking about other people you know i'll [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► still let my guard down that way talking [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► about myself but if somebody says so [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► what do you think of Merlin man i'm not [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► going to say he looks he looks bone in [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► his underwear [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► he's a four-flusher and a double dealer [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► and he is bacon sucks [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► eazy-e bacon cook a ham I think worst [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► dad in the world [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► what about that worst dad in the world [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► but you can you quote me on that [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► I'm not going to do that anymore you [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► know because because you don't have any [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► power over how that gets how that gets [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► messy but there are these guys guys who [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► I respected and guys who and still [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► respecting guys who enjoyed their [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► company who if I meet them at some big [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► rock thing like i did I ran into one of [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► them in the lobby of a hotel in [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► barcelona one time and he can I was like [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► oh hey and I Inanna you there's only so [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► many times you can like fault [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► yes it is slightly indeterminate [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► European accent hey uh hey [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► and you know you can't every time you [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► see the guy grabbed him again and say [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► look I'm still really sorry I called you [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► a drunk in that magazine even though you [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► are a drunk but I know that's just [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► between you me and everybody that's ever [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► met you but come on this is not to see [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► here's the thing John this is an [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► occupational hazard for you that I think [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► you should turn into an Occupational [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► benefit because you are the [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► opportunities take this as an [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► opportunity that's funny good thing [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► I don't know I don't know I did my bob [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► odenkirk impression the other day and I [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► was really embarrassed but to fully [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► break the here's the thing you are you [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► know you can you can play sly about this [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► but I know how much you enjoy being the [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► bull in the china closet and the part [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► that makes that complicated is not the [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► bullet but the china closet I mean [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► sometimes maybe I think you're in the [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► wrong store and I I told you a long time [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► ago I think you're coming around this [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► now that you are a pundit but I said a [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► long time ago like I i told you i'd [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► consider you are generations Charles [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► Nelson Reilly like I think you should I [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► think if there's a venue [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► you know what I mean you're the kind of [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► person that would have been on Mike [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► Douglas M and whatever jacked me [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► whatever drug that you know i'm saying [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► though you like I thought I could see [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► sea-ice consider you and punched the [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► wrong word about bon vivant or raconteur [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► or some other kind of slightly gay word [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► like I think I think of you not a good [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► way like I the thing is your this is the [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► thing about you and this has been my [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► counsel to you for like 16 years now [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► everyone spent is that is that you on it [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► seems to me that like creating excellent [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► rock music is is a facet of what you do [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► and i just want to say I think there was [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► a time when you poop food that because [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► you regard yourself as clear that we are [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► in employment you know even putting out [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► these great records for him or another [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► since the late nineties and I just [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► wonder how has that changed about that I [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► see you being a funny guy on twitter now [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► I see you going in doing what I report [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► from Bonnaroo you [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► how to call them in the believer you but [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► you're doing more stuff where by virtue [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► of the fact that you are a bull in a [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► china closet that attracts people to [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► want you to go and put that voice [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► somewhere that's it's not just around a [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► lot of as you called it don't yell at me [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► music yeah well i think i think that's [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► that's inevitable because I because i do [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► like to talk i like to hear the sound of [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► my own voice yes i like to open up a [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► newspaper and read the smart thing that [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► I said to someone accurately transcribed [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► with the correct punctuation but also i [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► think the world the world has a a lot of [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► people who have arrived on the scene and [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► said I am a maker of opinions and that [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► is only appealing so far because the [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► because it begs the question every time [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► why do I give a about your opinion i [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► have an opinion to everybody's got one [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► and what the world doesn't have a lot of [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► is people who have made enough stuff [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► that you can have a sense of where [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► they're coming from that they that they [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► are a maker of things so when they when [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► they venture an opinion about something [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► else you have some context to to judge [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► whether or not you consider that person [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► and authority you know for for the the [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► internet uh the the people whose [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► opinions I value about about pretty much [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► any topic are people who have done any [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► work of any kind in in their own venue [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► so it like I you want when i used to [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► write film reviews for the stranger [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► which is the alternative newspaper up [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► here in Seattle before i got my column [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► for the weekly which is the other [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► alternative newspaper in Seattle but the [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► stranger would send me to review [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► documentary films and they did it [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► because I knew nothing about documentary [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► films but they liked that I had a that I [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► had a voice that's [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► and from being an artist so I would [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► watch this documentary films and I [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► wouldn't have any of those oh I wouldn't [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► have the language of a film critic i [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► wouldn't be able to and I wouldn't sit [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► there and say oh this film is just a [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► copy of this other french film that that [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► happened 25 years ago and has in and [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► negates the need for this film you know [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► I had none of that I would watch the [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► film and i would judge it on my own [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► tastes and on the merits of what I saw [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► and so I when I look out at the internet [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► you know when i see you comment on [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► something or when I see a man comment on [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► something when I see paul f tompkins [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► comment on something or Hodgman friend [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► or anything any of the people that we [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► know who started creating started making [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► art at some point or another in their [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► lives and had success had six had had [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► success either early or late based on [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► the merits of the thing that they were [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► like compelled to make all of a sudden [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► their opinion is like gold to me on any [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► topic you know I would listen to Amy man [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► talk about the climate change [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► well maybe not climate change but I [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► would listen to me man talk about a [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► whole lot about things that are real job [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► but i would but that's right now I don't [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► want to hear her talk about a hoax like [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► climate change but i wanna hear talk [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► about kind of whatever on her mind [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► because her showing interesting and [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► independent for a really long time so [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► she's and she's someone who and I think [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► I know the kind of folks are talking [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► about the kind of folks you and I will [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► follow on twitter or have conversations [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► with and its your right i mean it's its [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► people its i totally agree with you and [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► this is the theme is a lot of my friends [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► seem to share our lease say they share [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► which is that personally a lot of your [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► friends are liars I mean yes yes I mean [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► I wouldn't have it any other way [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► otherwise you know i don't think i can [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► tolerate it but the i think a lot of [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► people I know and admire would say that [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► it's not even that I don't even have to [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► like what you do and some level I may [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► not even need to totally understand what [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► you do but i love this [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► the country has always said I i'm very [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► interested in talking to anybody about [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► what they do especially if they're [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► really good at it and to hear them speak [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► in some specificity about things like [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► contrast distinctions quality difference [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► and and these are the kinds of things [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► that you know and ice is extremely [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► productive thing to say but there's a [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► lot of stuff on the internet there [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► really isn't about a thumbs up [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► they might even give you a thumbs down [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► there's not really it was not a huge [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► amount of nuance you run into this all [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► the time on Twitter was with some very [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► funny Holocaust related material and I [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► think I think the thing that yesterday [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► how it got some of the worst like ghetto [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► but the point being like you don't say [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► is somebody like you like part of what [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► makes makes you so amusing to the people [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► who think you're amusing is that there [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► really is something very very wry about [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► it that is not going to travel well in a [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► in a reetou to somebody who for whom [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► English is not my first language so that [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► might be passed around more like that i [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► don't know what you think about that [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► because you strike me as somebody with a [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► lot of curiosity about gosh just so many [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► things that people do that are not indie [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► rock and Twitter and you think there's a [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► thread there i mean is that seems to me [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► that these are people who are interested [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► in in real things and saying real things [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► more than simply mining what seems to be [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► something other people would expect from [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► them [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► well it's hot it's hard on the listener [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► if I mean a lot of the things that i say [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► this podcast for instance i'm sure burns [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► a lot of people's ears because they're [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► not used to hearing people talk in a [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► tone of voice even that is contentious [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► with without the art without it [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► developing into a fight you know and you [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► and I can sit and talk for six hours and [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► 22 somebody sitting at the table next to [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► us it would sound like we were having an [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► argument the entire time it's the Larry [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► David problem everything out about the [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► wall mounts sounds like it's some kind [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► of can you know we're making some [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► contention and the other person you do [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► this to me all the time you like [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► no no and then you agree with me i don't [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► know i know but it is you know I think [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► it's perceived and I this is not [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► peculiar to TN [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► but I think loudmouths like us i think [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► when in certain contexts it can come out [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► as yes a judgment but a judgment that [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► really demands a response and and I want [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► to make a slight bridge to to a bigger [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► and broader point here which is that I [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► and getting to your your stuff you've [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► done your record you're working on some [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► changes in your life but i wonder [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► whether in some ways it's this [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► expectation of a certain kind of [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► familiarity where it could be vanilla or [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► it could be french vanilla or vanilla [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► with strawberries but like it still [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► needs to be that one flavor and if [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► you're expecting it's almost like you [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► hand somebody they think they're getting [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► an iced tea but you have a dr pepper and [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► the palate is is not really ready for [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► that and it's I don't think anything [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► wrong with them is nothing wrong with us [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► it's just that that's not the way that a [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► lot of people talk to each other and the [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► thread i'm trying to find there's a lot [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► of this is it seems like it seems like [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► today it feels like there's a lot of [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► advantage to fostering familiarity right [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► and that goes right back to putting out [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► animals records because you know we know [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► that will sell you know [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► yeah give it up but it's also the Balkan [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► izing of the Balkan izing and and [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► repackaging and fetishizing of really [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► small cultures that I answer the the the [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► the constant pandering that [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► entertainment does to us now you know [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► there there's very little there's very [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► little in the way of music or or film [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► that or a No in a lot of ways or novel [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► writing that is genuinely challenging [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► we're all pretty we're all pretty well [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► we're all pretty self-aware now and [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► we're all pretty cynical and so what we [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► want is for to talk about Star Wars and [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► what we wanted somebody to write a fit [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► the feel-good movie of the summer and [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► nobody wants I mean there is no modern [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► Oscar Wilde because who could you know [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► who was a polymath [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► and a social critic and a you know like [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► you still can cherry cherry a controller [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► in but also a contrarian in realms that [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► were truly dangerous you know that he [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► ultimately in some that was put on trial [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► for and convicted and imprisoned and [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► none of those those steaks don't really [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► exist in the same way so somebody can be [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► a a social critic and a polymath and a [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► ball move on and man either you like him [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► or you don't change the channel [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► I'm gonna go listen to the polymath that [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► I think is funny and and so with that [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► you lose the the Frisian of kind of [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► being captivated by somebody that you [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► don't like or captivated by somebody [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► whose opinion gets under your skin and [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► so and that has an effect on the [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► creator's right so a lot of a lot of the [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► people on Twitter that I respect top [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► there if they work so hard for a thumbs [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► up [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► you know everybody on the internet is [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► just trying to get a thumbs up and [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► frankly I don't give a about a thumbs up [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► and that's a and and what happens then [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► is that you you risk not having 250,000 [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► Twitter followers because a lot of [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► people are like I give that up thumbs [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► down [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► goodbye and it's over your relationship [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► with them is over they're never going to [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► come back they they read one thing you [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► wrote about some inconsequential thing [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► they misinterpreted it in the first [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► place because they don't know you they [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► don't know your context and all of a [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► sudden you just well you know you're off [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► their list and so there is no room for [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► sir I take umbrage at what you've said [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► but I admire the language you used so [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► but it's you all it's already like if [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► the clash if the clash started today [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► they wouldn't be successful in in less [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► just drummer follow you back because [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► because now I mean add one gathering for [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► what you're saying in part is that you [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► know de kaash even five years ago this [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► was different but it's funny how today [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► partly from market forces partly from [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► social media partly from all of this [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► sort of submarkets you discuss the [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► consumer us consumer of of toots or a [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► consumer of you know downloads or [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► consumer anything in some ways don't you [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► think that the consumer sets the [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► expectation in a way that's really [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► fundamentally different than the [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► producers have historically been used to [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► oh absolutely you could not think it's [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► almost as good or bad or like you want [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► to respond [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► oh I can have that no but you know what [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► I'm saying I mean there's a time when [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► part of what made punk rock so bracing [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► for people setting aside the economic [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► conditions in England stuff like that [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► part of it was that confident the [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► confrontational part of that part of [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► what made contains to make like Marcel [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► Duchamp is is still mind-boggling to me [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► like I forget about more about my [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► soldiers and look at stuff in special [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► read about his stuff and I mean gosh [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► maybe even more than Picasso he was he [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► was doing something i'm not talking [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► about the urinal I'm just talking about [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► everything he did was just a thing that [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► he did and he wasn't worried about like [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► whether you got it [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► he was he was really but I think it [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► would be hard not to have seen almost [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► everything in the dots and all that was [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► really hard to see everything they did [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► is being somewhat confrontational by [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► design and I think that kind of the [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► could talk about new wave movies [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► whatever these are things that were [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► meant to challenge your expectations of [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► the medium and to make you rethink I had [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► a pretty deep level how you see and [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► process this stuff you know this is one [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► last thing I wild passion while such a [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► great character there is some an essay [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► he wrote on time called the soul of man [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► under socialism was it that the artists [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► creative but there's one where he wrote [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► about how after the impression is you [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► never see water the same way again and i [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► happen to think that's true [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► once you've really seen a giant is Monet [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► at you know at MoMA or something you [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► don't water looks like an impressionist [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► painting now any part of the role side [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► of Babel but the part of the role of of [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► art has always been to help you reshape [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► the way that you see things and you're [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► not going to fundamentally have an [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► impact with people if you're mainly [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► trying to iterate on something that [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► you won't be too jarring to people [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► that's to accept that you'll never see [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► water the same way again after you've [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► seen the impressionist but there was [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► only one time in history where one [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► minute there were no Impressionists [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► and then there were right and and Oscar [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► was was there for that now we are we're [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► taking to see impressionist paintings in [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► museums when we were five years old on [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► kindergarten tours and so for us [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► personally in a lot of ways there never [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► was a time that we did that we saw water [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► without also knowing about the [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► Impressionists and the impressionistic [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► painting of water ultimately are now we [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► see them as as the you know kind of a [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► close-up as a used as a backdrop for a [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► coca-cola ad or whatever and and the [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► impact of those things and the amazement [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► that that's absolutely still possible [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► but it requires more work you don't just [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► you don't just get introduced to it and [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► sit there and have your mind blown [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► anymore you have to have to stare at it [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► and go back to a place where your mind [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► is capable of being blown in order to [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► have it be blown again because you're i [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► can just you know can can see this stuff [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► just as as a wallpaper [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► I I'll just beginning to shop i went [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► with a good friend of mine the musician [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► John Wesley Harding who is also the [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► novelist Wesley Stace he took me to the [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► philadelphia museum of our collection of [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► tea shop stuff earlier this year and I [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► spent it took me a half an hour just [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► being in the presence of the work to [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► reset my brain so that i could even look [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► at it without without just seeing it as [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► all the things that were derived from [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► meant without seeing it as as just a [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► bunch of construction paper or just [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► somebody like trying out some ideas I [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► mean I had to sit with it and this is [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► too i think of any art [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► frankly yeah that's definitely true love [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► of paintings and I think it's really [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► true of poetry with it out and my twenty [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► century painting teacher best class I [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► took in college really got got this [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► through me when she put these slides up [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► and she'd say okay this helen [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► frankenthaler color field thing you're [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► looking at is really faded on this old [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► slide but if you when you see one of [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► these important like when you see your [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► first then go and you see the impasto [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► and you see there's like almost half an [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► inch of paint at some points you get all [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► my gosh this guy really this guy was [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► really had a lot going on this is more [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► than just a blue and yellow thing of a [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► field like this is this is you can [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► really see this guy's soul when these [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► little pointy bits of paint and with [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► poetry like hearing Richard Hugo you [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► know three degrees of grain phillipsburg [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► is really different than scanning it on [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► tumblr page it's very very different [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► well but so now extend that extend that [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► to a to some indie rock music that took [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► three years to write and record and you [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► know imagine how many people are gonna [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► rip it into their itunes and give it [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► even 1000 that much attention you know [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► clear mind put it on not be listening to [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► a water surfing the internet not be [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► hosting two while they're doing [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► conditions at the jump in here i was at [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► your house is the area where your mom's [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► house I remember sitting in the dining [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► room and you're like okay like I've done [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► before [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► I'm gonna let you listen to this I'm [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► gonna let you listen to these are these [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► are that I I think someone was one was [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► on his departure and teaspoon what what [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► era was a teaspoon that would have been [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► too early 2006 case we sit down you've [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► got like a CD or something and we sit [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► down and every single time you've been [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► very generous letting me as I've you [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► send me stuff that's not out that i love [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► and like you would get so pissed that I [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► would not like you just sit and [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► literally just listen to the music now [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► is close either down yes [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► yes absolutely and I've done with you [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► I've really gotta listen to this you'll [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► turn off the TV like doing anything and [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► all I can hear is a little bit from that [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► leads me to believe from the headphones [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► and you breathing very very loudly one I [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► don't know if you know you do that very [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► very loudly but and you sit there and a [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► hundred percent of your attention goes [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► to that and I'm just thinking when [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► you're committing something like the [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► commander thinks aloud to to tape to too [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► hard drive like you must you really are [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► thinking I have to guess about some [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► version of you sitting there with the [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► headphones on breathing heavily and [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► really focusing a hundred percent and [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► that'sthat's what you make though you're [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► not making like you're not making stuff [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► for somebody to listen to once on a jog [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► and a shuffle you're trying to create [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► some projecting here but actually that [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► that's a big part of what you do when [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► I'm sitting in the studio I'm absolutely [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► making the music for the person that is [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► either sitting in a dark room with their [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► headphones on listening to with their [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► eyes closed or driving in a car with the [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► stereo on super loud driving through [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► some vineyards in Northern California [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► and those are the character wonder it [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► takes you so long to put out a record [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► high collide good for the finger people [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► but as a and that's right my people but [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► as a as a writer the feedback I get from [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► people is oh my god I for the last three [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► weeks every time I get on the [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► stairmaster my itunes brings up one of [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► your tunes and so I started thinking of [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► you guys is like my Stairmaster band and [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► that is so awesome now i love you guys [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► that such a giant compliment though John [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► it's a massive compliment i don't i [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► don't take it as a I don't take it the [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► wrong way at all but but it's so it's so [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► it's not how my life I not how I consume [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► things that i love or meter media back [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► on that I have to just let that be I [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► can't I can't I because i cannot find an [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► entry point for myself into that like [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► your Stairmaster band cool [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► my mind wasn't my was always interval [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► was your Stairmaster band will that when [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► they first put out that bright lights [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► record [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► that was and I was exercising for the [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► very short window of time is always [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► interval you know I open for those guys [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► once and they were dicks [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► yeah that's really not that surprising [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► to me this is what it was a long time [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► ago they were young they might be really [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► nice guys now they were total dicks they [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► were they seriously were like had their [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► manager come and say that bowl of corn [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► chips is Interpol's bowl of corn chips [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► so can you guys stop eating those corn [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► too well they changed a lot i used to [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► like a lot better when they're called [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► joy division that was staying with Peter [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► Hook and it's played out but um I'm [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► trying to I'm trying to find the thread [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► and the opportunity to jump and jump [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► around a little bit in mind let's just [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► jump but don't find a thread just leap [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► into the world I'm trying John I know [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► you find me scattered I know other [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► people find scattered and and I I don't [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► always get this opportunity with you [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► we've talked before about how we need to [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► do is what is that what is that [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► that's my that's my little bell and i [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► keep on my desk so that when I need to [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► reset i go and then it's alright yeah [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► you know really not having this one if I [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► really need a recess totally different [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► ads but i have no I have no context for [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► wrapping my head around any of your bell [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► related activity this sounds completely [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► at odds [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► titre oh that sounded like could you [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► please check me into this small motel [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► that's right that's right how many does [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► he have on your desk rodder uh on my [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► desk right now i just have those two [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► bells but around the house i have [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► probably 40 bills [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► nope no no that's just hasn't been on a [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► glass it's a pencil on an incredible [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► hulk glass good job next question let's [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► go to lightning round [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► gosh so much I want to talk to you about [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► we we talked up a lot we gonna start [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► this from my dog the dark my dear for [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► podcast we still got to do this roderick [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► online it's just you me talking on the [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► phone once a week we put it out we got [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► to do this are we doing that right now [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► well this is a year on that you're on a [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► podcast that idea right now and so this [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► is not precisely that we're going to do [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► a different podcast where we do the same [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► thing [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► eventually everyone will have several [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► podcasts I think eventually I'm excited [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► about i did a podcast the other day [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► really did you make a pod did [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► did you make an RSS was somebody else's [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► part i did make an RSS can ask his [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► partner on i did an online haha i had a [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► pretty good online this morning [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► yeah a lot of God listening I i like i [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► like doing on lines it was a podcast [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► called the air-raid young guy in Iraq I [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► up here in Seattle asked me to come to [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► his podcast and takes a long time he had [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► it set up in such a way that every time [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► you move your chair the microphone would [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► vibrate for like 30 seconds a shock [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► mount and a shocking on anything we had [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► a shock mounting and then he Mount heat [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► so the mic is on a shock mount and then [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► he mounted the shock mount to the table [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► that we were both sitting at so if you [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► if you if you took if you hit the table [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► with your hand it it just it vibrated [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► through the whole system i was like did [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► you think about mounting that to [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► something else i am a senior picture my [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► setup I've got a unit that rode [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► podcaster shockmount it's on one of [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► those little like a little crappy ones [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► you would you like to make a kick drum [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► mic with a really heavy bass with a [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► little short and hit your table right [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► now with your hand okay okay so you can [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► hear the tale but I think you putting [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► them through the mic at all okay and [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► then the thing is here's the real [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► tricking ok so this is as i've posted [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► before this is sitting on top to get a [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► page count here it's sitting on top of [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► the giant-size x-men a book it's a [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► chance on a two-and-a-half-inch book [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► from the classic period of of the x-men [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► and I think that happen during to your [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► audience right now i'm not i haven't [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► read the whole thing but it it sets i [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► think a lot of the vibrations [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► um yeah I have my speakers my monitor [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► speakers in my studio sitting on top of [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► both of them are on top of stacks of [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► beetles books books about the Beatles [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► that is I can't get enough for this you [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► know what one of those cash [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► right on top how did you know that i'm [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► on topic I now as you know that that's [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► awesome [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► mhm on the other let me guess there's a [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► post-it note above your desk that has [TS]

00:54:13 ◼   ► written on in sharpie on topic ! ! i [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► have incredibly chaotic drawings by my [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► daughter that's all [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► knock over my over my desk I just keep I [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► stare at them and hope you'll get better [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► someday I wanna be better that whole [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► business about you know about kids being [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► natural artists and and the art the [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► artistic impulses beat out of them by [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► our by our patreon patriarchal society [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► left the kids are terrible artist [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► yes and making art is hard work and and [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► if you're listening to this and you have [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► a kid who um i would describe would [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► discourage them not an obvious way not a [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► mean way but in a very subtle way [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► yeah i would just go don't discourage [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► them because you want better for them [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► than the life of an artist now [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► discourage them so that they get out of [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► the way of actual artists who are [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► working hard [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► you're saying it's a single signal noise [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► problem i think it is [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► yeah I this there's a noise I make a lot [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► of my daughter seems like a little you [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► know it's funny our kid goes to a pretty [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► cool [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► that's very cool preschool little co-op [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► we with you and she is run by Jewish [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► people know it's not and it's also not [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► run by hippies and it's not run by [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► cultus which is different from almost [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► every preschool up into like most of the [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► preschools they want you like read a [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► book was very interesting you know when [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► the children would have been the same [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► swing we let them talk about it and then [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► we write their names on a list and now [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► shut up [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► this place is very sensible but you know [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► it's funny when you guys in there my [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► work day and I saw this thing on the [TS]

00:55:46 ◼   ► wall and like so many great things in my [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► life first I was angry and then I [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► thought it was awesome and it was this [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► big thing and admittedly a little hippie [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► and it's like something how to talk to [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► your kids about their thing they're [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► drawing their art or whatever and at [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► first i was like all like because it was [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► so antithetical to how I've been doing [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► cuz i'm i'm totally that oh my god [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► that's awesome that's great oh my gosh [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► is that looks just as a face it looks [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► like is that Mommy or whatever it is I [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► used to do that and no no no we're still [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► she go [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► yeah oh right so here's the thing and I [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► don't know if you we will find this [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► useful with your youngster but I I what [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► it said was instead but don't take a [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► minute first of all take a minute and [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► look at it and and do not jump right [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► into making a remark about what it [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► cortical is let alone making a value [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► judgment but let you say that wow that's [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► really cool you made a bunch of red [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► lines there and they're not encourage [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► them to talk at first I thought that was [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► really happy and dumb but I've decided [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► that that's actually a good idea because [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► because sometimes kids just scribbling [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► you know [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► no it's a good so I think it's an [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► incredible idea i mean III actually try [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► really hard and this is a weird thing to [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► say but I try really hard not to say [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► good good hair about that i'm terry i do [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► that all the time because you know what [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► to do she needed you know I mean I [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► understand there's a thousand people [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► right now [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► composing angry emails to you saying you [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► need to say good to your kid but but i [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► think the i think actually John the [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► conventional wisdom is increasingly to [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► not do that [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► yeah and you know but you can go too far [TS]

00:57:28 ◼   ► as I reckon you're just encourage the [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► effort obviously encourage the effort [TS]

00:57:32 ◼   ► yeah and there's so many ways that that [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► my kid knows that I approve of her that [TS]

00:57:39 ◼   ► you know to have to do and it feels like [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► it's just a reflexive action like good [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► good god you don't worry about I worry [TS]

00:57:50 ◼   ► about raising a kid that just worries [TS]

00:57:53 ◼   ► about trying to please me as much as I [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► am incredibly self-involved I worry that [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► when i do that it's like me so much [TS]

00:57:59 ◼   ► going to crush her artistic ambitions [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► like she's gonna do whatever she does [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► but I do worry about her thinking the [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► only yardstick for that is like whether [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► other people thought was good right [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► right well yeah exactly i think i think [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► one of the things that I that I [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► appreciate most about my parents and [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► particularly my mother was that when [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► when i was working on something like art [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► something artistically you know she [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► would back out of the room and close the [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► door [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► um there wasn't she didn't sit there and [TS]

00:58:33 ◼   ► say what are you doing now [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► well what is that is that a tree I mean [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► she didn't do any of that and when I was [TS]

00:58:38 ◼   ► done she put it up on the refrigerator [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► but it but they're there wasn't a she [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► she recognized that that was not [TS]

00:58:47 ◼   ► necessarily another opportunity for for [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► parent-child interaction becomes [TS]

00:58:52 ◼   ► actually it was your thing that was what [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► i was doing and I was fine you know like [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► like let it ride [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► this is a new segment I call bizarro [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► Marcia Roderick theater are you ready [TS]

00:59:03 ◼   ► yeah jon jon is that about a Space [TS]

00:59:09 ◼   ► Shuttle crash Oh said about the [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► challenger or the I get mixed up is it [TS]

00:59:14 ◼   ► does the Challenger right what the [TS]

00:59:18 ◼   ► commander thinks aloud is it's more i [TS]

00:59:21 ◼   ► actually had to google this because I [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► wasn't even sure which is which but your [TS]

00:59:24 ◼   ► little younger than me [TS]

00:59:24 ◼   ► that was what about the without about [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► the Columbia the Challenger would you [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► say um the you can see if you're [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► comfortable talking about it i'm talking [TS]

00:59:35 ◼   ► about you see now first of all you're [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► listening to John Roderick who I will [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► never admit is my favorite song right [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► owners today because he's a dick [TS]

00:59:44 ◼   ► yeah you don't want to tell me that [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► nobody like can I come stay with you [TS]

00:59:48 ◼   ► examine cisco for free for several weeks [TS]

00:59:51 ◼   ► Maryland oh my god is that so hard and I [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► would love it if your mom would take [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► care of our stupid daughter and you just [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► come and hang out with me again i miss [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► it no one's [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► it no one's [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► the moment that's what we should do we [TS]

01:00:01 ◼   ► should put both of our daughters in a [TS]

01:00:02 ◼   ► little box is it in my mom's living room [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► not a me knocks on iceboxx miss my mom [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► has nice boxes and mom so practical i [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► love your mom she said she says straight [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► and even talked about before when she [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► talks about how much he loves your kid [TS]

01:00:16 ◼   ► she's very very you know buried we have [TS]

01:00:19 ◼   ► a visit when i accidentally called her [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► number instead of yours and she was so [TS]

01:00:22 ◼   ► she seems really happy but she's also [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► really like yep she's still her she's [TS]

01:00:25 ◼   ► still very practical [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► mmm yeah she has a room in the basement [TS]

01:00:29 ◼   ► for where she keeps the good boxes like [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► friends kids in trouble with my wife for [TS]

01:00:35 ◼   ► keeping what I call quote-unquote good [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► boxes you brought out that's a good box [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► you doing that's a perfectly good bog it [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► down would we be going to personally [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► talk a little bit about these things [TS]

01:00:48 ◼   ► I don't know so it is that the song was [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► about the coladas space shuttle Columbia [TS]

01:00:53 ◼   ► which is one of two space shuttles that [TS]

01:00:55 ◼   ► crashed the other one being the [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► Challenger but the columbia is the one [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► that disintegrated on re-entry [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► whereas the Challenger is the one that [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► disintegrated shortly after launch right [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► and uh so yeah I've had very very [TS]

01:01:15 ◼   ► interesting your relationship to this [TS]

01:01:16 ◼   ► song just recently I mean I it was one [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► of those songs you get lucky sometimes [TS]

01:01:21 ◼   ► that you write a song that has the has [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► the capacity to make you cry multiple [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► times as you're performing it you know [TS]

01:01:29 ◼   ► and and I know that the all songwriters [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► coming there's one or two songs in their [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► repertoire that if they really dig into [TS]

01:01:36 ◼   ► it while they're performing it they can [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► they can get it can make them very [TS]

01:01:40 ◼   ► emotional like it does the crowd but it [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► is for people who have not been with you [TS]

01:01:45 ◼   ► since the very beginning people i [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► encounter it's it's a lot of people's [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► favorite long winter Sun yeah and and i [TS]

01:01:53 ◼   ► understand that I it's a it's somewhat [TS]

01:01:57 ◼   ► atypical of a long winter song and that [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► it doesn't have any guitars on it and [TS]

01:02:01 ◼   ► it's a have literally three quarts [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► inside the same looks like a 10 point [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► forward 15 for the whole step 46 minutes [TS]

01:02:08 ◼   ► long but uh and and it's a typical of a [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► long winter [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► song in that it's about a real event [TS]

01:02:16 ◼   ► that's that was on the news [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► what about a specific like a specific [TS]

01:02:21 ◼   ► real-world thing it seems that's not [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► your wheelhouse not normally but this [TS]

01:02:28 ◼   ► was this was a song I you know that the [TS]

01:02:30 ◼   ► normally what I do is I i use metaphor [TS]

01:02:33 ◼   ► to take us take small personal events [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► and turn them into bigger things that we [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► can use to talk about talk about real [TS]

01:02:44 ◼   ► feelings you know and and that's what [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► metaphor is so good at you can you can [TS]

01:02:50 ◼   ► say well that that that girl stepped on [TS]

01:02:52 ◼   ► my toe and if I wrote a song was like [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► that girl stepped on my toe [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► it would it would be a jack black song [TS]

01:02:59 ◼   ► first of all but it would be not a very [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► interesting song for the long haul but [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► so you see utilize metaphor and you turn [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► your you know you turn the girl into the [TS]

01:03:12 ◼   ► Hungarians and you turn your toe into [TS]

01:03:15 ◼   ► the the great you know the but not and [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► the great steppes of Central Europe and [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► all of a sudden you're writing a song [TS]

01:03:23 ◼   ► that sounds very big and and it's coming [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► from a place that's very small the [TS]

01:03:28 ◼   ► Columbia was an event that was actual [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► and big and you couldn't metaphor eyes [TS]

01:03:36 ◼   ► it you know though there was nothing you [TS]

01:03:39 ◼   ► could you couldn't you couldn't use a [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► metaphor because any metaphor you would [TS]

01:03:43 ◼   ► use would be smaller than the actual [TS]

01:03:45 ◼   ► thing and as I was writing a song i [TS]

01:03:48 ◼   ► realized that you could that the [TS]

01:03:50 ◼   ► Columbia was an actual event that you [TS]

01:03:54 ◼   ► could you could both talk about it in [TS]

01:03:59 ◼   ► really small discreet discreet little [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► scenes and it also it functioned as a [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► kind of reverse metaphor like you know [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► what happened to them on that spaceship [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► and how that special crash affected us [TS]

01:04:15 ◼   ► all it it in little ways was like a [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► relationship breaking up or like you [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► know like one person's life kinda [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► seen from beginning to end so it was it [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► was it was sort of a reverse of what [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► what normal songwriting would look like [TS]

01:04:36 ◼   ► yeah and the absolutely and that chorus [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► is is so memorable [TS]

01:04:41 ◼   ► whatever those letters five or six words [TS]

01:04:42 ◼   ► of the chorus but what else is there is [TS]

01:04:44 ◼   ► a one-line something like there's no [TS]

01:04:47 ◼   ► words in the corner just goes yeah what [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► do you want me also when I thought you [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► called Dakota like we have the coda [TS]

01:04:53 ◼   ► right I'm sorry and music guy like you [TS]

01:04:57 ◼   ► like you know anything about you know [TS]

01:04:59 ◼   ► anything about music [TS]

01:05:00 ◼   ► um but the part the part that always [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► gets me is the something like can you [TS]