The Incomparable

179: Thief-Based Economy


00:00:00   the incomparable number 179 january2014 [TS]

00:00:09   automatic comfortable on your host Jason [TS]

00:00:11   smell and it's time for us to meet [TS]

00:00:13   another edition of our book and we [TS]

00:00:16   haven't read books and a little while [TS]

00:00:19   we've been reading books but we haven't [TS]

00:00:20   met and convened there's been no [TS]

00:00:22   convention of book readers on the [TS]

00:00:25   podcast in a little while to talk about [TS]

00:00:27   specific books we did our book draft [TS]

00:00:30   where we did our winter but you know [TS]

00:00:32   picked a bazillion books for you to read [TS]

00:00:34   that you're probably still trying to get [TS]

00:00:36   through but we're back to talk about two [TS]

00:00:38   books and specific we are gonna have [TS]

00:00:40   some spoilers will fire out the spoiler [TS]

00:00:42   horn will give you a warning about when [TS]

00:00:44   to skip ahead if you want to talk about [TS]

00:00:47   one of the books and not the other book [TS]

00:00:48   the two books that we read because it's [TS]

00:00:50   been so long i wanted to read two [TS]

00:00:51   different books and these are books that [TS]

00:00:53   I I've actually been I've had [TS]

00:00:55   recommended to me for a while now by our [TS]

00:00:58   panelists and I read them and so I [TS]

00:00:59   thought hey now that i've read them i [TS]

00:01:02   should get something out of this [TS]

00:01:03   like podcasts so here we are and Scott [TS]

00:01:07   McNulty joins us of course as always [TS]

00:01:09   because he reads everything hi Scott [TS]

00:01:11   hello Jason it's good to be here reading [TS]

00:01:14   books read books for once [TS]

00:01:16   not only that dungeons dragons with [TS]

00:01:17   Roger brain that's true so that if i [TS]

00:01:20   remember correctly this is the this the [TS]

00:01:22   podcast where we all individually [TS]

00:01:24   silently read books and all you hear is [TS]

00:01:27   the turning of pages yes [TS]

00:01:28   ok appreciated chuckle yeah and that [TS]

00:01:33   voice you heard his Monte Ashley who [TS]

00:01:34   also joins us [TS]

00:01:35   hello Monty hello hi good to have you [TS]

00:01:38   back [TS]

00:01:39   thank you it's good to be back and you [TS]

00:01:41   have read you've read both books correct [TS]

00:01:43   i have read each of the two books [TS]

00:01:45   amazing i hope now Dan Moore and his [TS]

00:01:48   next and Warren is here sometimes dan [TS]

00:01:50   doesn't finish the book we're reading [TS]

00:01:51   dan have you read and finished both of [TS]

00:01:54   these books book what is what is booked [TS]

00:01:57   what is what is booked I yeah I read [TS]

00:02:00   some books that is possibly they were [TS]

00:02:03   they might even these and I couldn't [TS]

00:02:04   tell you [TS]

00:02:05   Jason is not amused all right i read [TS]

00:02:07   those books what you want yeah i want [TS]

00:02:08   you i want an admission that you [TS]

00:02:09   finished you finished the books finished [TS]

00:02:11   I won't get anything out of me cover [TS]

00:02:13   yes I finished both books you want me on [TS]

00:02:15   that library you need me on that line [TS]

00:02:17   where do I say I wasn't any books with [TS]

00:02:20   the lead pipe [TS]

00:02:21   yes [TS]

00:02:22   it's true alright with the books we are [TS]

00:02:23   talking about the newest episode are the [TS]

00:02:26   lies of locke lamora by Scott Lynch it's [TS]

00:02:30   a fantasy novel it is the beginning of a [TS]

00:02:32   series called the gentleman bastard [TS]

00:02:34   series and yes there's more than one and [TS]

00:02:38   we are also going to talk about a book [TS]

00:02:40   called ancillary justice by and lucky [TS]

00:02:43   this was one of Scott's recommendations [TS]

00:02:45   i believe Scott you said this was your [TS]

00:02:46   favorite book of 2013 correct it [TS]

00:02:49   certainly was [TS]

00:02:50   wow haha yeah I'd I what I wasn't going [TS]

00:02:55   to say it but it seems like nobody else [TS]

00:02:56   agrees with me but so I am now going to [TS]

00:03:00   science podcast so for I think stop [TS]

00:03:03   recording and say goodbye suckers [TS]

00:03:05   oh ok so let's start with the lies of [TS]

00:03:08   locke lamora dan you are you have been [TS]

00:03:10   recommending this to me and bugging me [TS]

00:03:12   about reading this for so long that [TS]

00:03:14   finally went on sale on amazon and you [TS]

00:03:16   gifted me a copy i forget for [TS]

00:03:18   ninety-nine cents or whatever was worth [TS]

00:03:20   every penny [TS]

00:03:21   read this well I great it and you know [TS]

00:03:24   honestly i think i read it in 2007 for [TS]

00:03:27   the first time so quite a long time now [TS]

00:03:29   it's been out for a while and then I [TS]

00:03:31   read the sequel's as they arrived in the [TS]

00:03:33   most recent sequel arrived only last [TS]

00:03:35   fall after many many years between that [TS]

00:03:38   in the second book and I loved it and I [TS]

00:03:41   read the same summer i read the patrick [TS]

00:03:44   rothfuss name of the wind and found them [TS]

00:03:46   very very similar [TS]

00:03:47   huh and indeed recently read a tweet by [TS]

00:03:49   Patrick Rothfuss where he said I have [TS]

00:03:51   this idea for when locking coat meet in [TS]

00:03:53   a bar was like I think my head just [TS]

00:03:55   exploded [TS]

00:03:56   Wow too much whimsy I I yeah I found [TS]

00:03:59   these i have found these different so I [TS]

00:04:01   wonder dance you were the guy who bought [TS]

00:04:03   me the book could you take us through a [TS]

00:04:06   little explanation of what are the lies [TS]

00:04:08   of locke lamora is all about [TS]

00:04:10   yeah well the last lot more is a fantasy [TS]

00:04:12   book it takes place in the fictional a [TS]

00:04:14   realm of cum more and it basically [TS]

00:04:18   follows this crew of thieves name the [TS]

00:04:23   gentlemen bastards and we sort of get a [TS]

00:04:25   couple hundred twenty narratives one we [TS]

00:04:27   get the past of the main character or [TS]

00:04:30   the titular locke lamora and how we sort [TS]

00:04:33   of grows up and gets taken into this [TS]

00:04:35   group [TS]

00:04:35   thieves and eventually becomes their [TS]

00:04:37   leader meanwhile it's intertwined with a [TS]

00:04:40   narrative from the present day as they [TS]

00:04:41   try to pull off a job and what's notable [TS]

00:04:45   about the thieves and I think that [TS]

00:04:47   struck me even more the second time i [TS]

00:04:48   read through is that what they're doing [TS]

00:04:50   is really unheard of in this world which [TS]

00:04:53   is to say they're not just thieves [TS]

00:04:54   though they are good thieves their [TS]

00:04:55   comment and nobody's really developed [TS]

00:04:59   this art of the con yet the long con [TS]

00:05:02   and so we follow this long con that has [TS]

00:05:04   all these as as many good con stories [TS]

00:05:07   and movies and books have various layers [TS]

00:05:10   there's lots of people working against [TS]

00:05:13   each other at various points and some [TS]

00:05:15   rather terrible things happen later on [TS]

00:05:17   in the book but I i have to say i do [TS]

00:05:21   love this book is one of my favorites [TS]

00:05:23   from the last several years and I [TS]

00:05:25   recommend it to many many people anybody [TS]

00:05:27   really likes fantasy I feel like it's [TS]

00:05:28   not your typical it's not like high [TS]

00:05:30   fantasy right it's very you know what is [TS]

00:05:33   concerned primarily with these guys who [TS]

00:05:35   are the thieves and rogues there's not a [TS]

00:05:38   lot of magic there is some there is yes [TS]

00:05:40   it plays a a kind of key role i also [TS]

00:05:42   really like the setting which is a he is [TS]

00:05:45   sort of Renaissance italy-based there's [TS]

00:05:49   a lot of stuff with the a Tiffany was [TS]

00:05:51   built on the ruins of an alien [TS]

00:05:53   civilization yet which it was which is [TS]

00:05:56   still have some relevance but not a [TS]

00:05:58   whole lot of relevance but it's got the [TS]

00:06:00   whole like there's it's essentially [TS]

00:06:02   venice right like there's canals and [TS]

00:06:04   there's you know people in masks and [TS]

00:06:07   things like this and it's got a very [TS]

00:06:09   very Renaissance field if the tallest [TS]

00:06:12   buildings were constructed out of some [TS]

00:06:13   sort of strange alien obsidian that had [TS]

00:06:15   been there thousands have you been to [TS]

00:06:16   Venice because simply saying I haven't [TS]

00:06:19   but there you go [TS]

00:06:20   are you saying there's alien obsidian [TS]

00:06:22   i'm not saying there is alright fair [TS]

00:06:24   enough [TS]

00:06:25   so that's that sums it up i think i [TS]

00:06:27   think so its I heard somebody described [TS]

00:06:29   to me might even you as sort of Ocean's [TS]

00:06:32   eleven in in a fantasy world because it [TS]

00:06:35   is a heist it is there's a there's a con [TS]

00:06:38   game at work here [TS]

00:06:39   what it what it reminded the setting [TS]

00:06:40   reminded me of the that Woody Allen joke [TS]

00:06:43   about how like my big brother beat up on [TS]

00:06:45   me and my big sister beat up on my big [TS]

00:06:48   brother might [TS]

00:06:48   parents beat up on us and the people [TS]

00:06:49   across the hall beat up on them and the [TS]

00:06:51   people downstairs beat up on our floor [TS]

00:06:52   and the people the next building get up [TS]

00:06:54   on our building and he built this whole [TS]

00:06:56   pyramid of people and he's at the bottom [TS]

00:06:57   of it getting beat up and this is like [TS]

00:06:59   that cause there's like the the low [TS]

00:07:01   thieves and then the the higher thieves [TS]

00:07:03   robbed from the lower thieves in the [TS]

00:07:05   higher thieves robbed and it's like this [TS]

00:07:06   whole you get the sense this whole city [TS]

00:07:08   is entirely it's like a thief based [TS]

00:07:11   economy [TS]

00:07:12   yeah and these guys are trouble because [TS]

00:07:14   they're like the there they're like the [TS]

00:07:17   thief's thieves of thieves there they [TS]

00:07:20   break the rules write the rules are [TS]

00:07:23   they've made the sort of head you know [TS]

00:07:25   Godfather like figure of the underworld [TS]

00:07:27   has made this deal where the thieves [TS]

00:07:30   don't steal from the nobles essentially [TS]

00:07:33   and so right they're protected right [TS]

00:07:36   there's a secret peace between them and [TS]

00:07:39   so lock in his crew are secretly going [TS]

00:07:41   behind the backs of their of the rest of [TS]

00:07:43   the thieves and and ripping off nobles [TS]

00:07:45   using these con games and so they're [TS]

00:07:48   playing this very difficult this very [TS]

00:07:50   risky game and it may come back to bite [TS]

00:07:53   them in the ass [TS]

00:07:54   the only way to win that game is not to [TS]

00:07:57   play more to play it really well as [TS]

00:07:59   posting this is the wrong lesson to make [TS]

00:08:01   you'll be good [TS]

00:08:02   yes you can win it by winning that's [TS]

00:08:04   another way to win the game [TS]

00:08:05   traditional little-known fact about the [TS]

00:08:07   game you take a risk [TS]

00:08:09   somebody will come into your lair and [TS]

00:08:11   kill everybody oh did I spoil something [TS]

00:08:13   there's lots of people died in this book [TS]

00:08:16   lots of characters are horribly horribly [TS]

00:08:18   killed [TS]

00:08:18   sometimes you have to sacrifice some [TS]

00:08:20   ponds to do something i don't i don't so [TS]

00:08:24   I without without blowing I mean I gave [TS]

00:08:27   a little that was a little miners we [TS]

00:08:28   want some people thought little miners [TS]

00:08:30   both know i think you can read the book [TS]

00:08:32   and you wouldn't know you're not like oh [TS]

00:08:33   I'm gonna wait for people to die o [TS]

00:08:34   people died of more people that lots of [TS]

00:08:36   people died in the book it's just people [TS]

00:08:37   it happens there's lots of murder and [TS]

00:08:39   and it is think everything you need in [TS]

00:08:41   the george RR martin school of there are [TS]

00:08:44   very few people who are sacred [TS]

00:08:46   yeah exactly right exactly right so [TS]

00:08:48   here's here's the thing that got me [TS]

00:08:50   about this book structurally and it's [TS]

00:08:52   right at the beginning so i'm not i'm [TS]

00:08:53   not skipping ahead too much to say I [TS]

00:08:55   found its structure really weird because [TS]

00:08:57   there's this whole prologue that goes on [TS]

00:09:00   seemingly forever and it [TS]

00:09:02   reads like you're reading the beginning [TS]

00:09:03   of a novel about this child who is taken [TS]

00:09:06   in by this by this kind of Sagan asked [TS]

00:09:10   just like it always say it's the poor [TS]

00:09:12   orphans come to this underground lair [TS]

00:09:14   where they learned steel and they and [TS]

00:09:16   there's again a chain of who beats up on [TS]

00:09:18   who and who takes whose money that they [TS]

00:09:21   stolen all of that and this goes on for [TS]

00:09:23   I you know it seems like a long time it [TS]

00:09:25   seems like 50 pages 70 pages i don't [TS]

00:09:27   know how long it was and I get to the [TS]

00:09:29   end of it and I thought oh ok well this [TS]

00:09:30   this was a little long and it was a [TS]

00:09:32   little slow but i'm intrigued about what [TS]

00:09:34   happens next to this little kid and i [TS]

00:09:36   turn the page and it says chapter one [TS]

00:09:38   and I go what the hell [TS]

00:09:40   wait that was still the prologue yes [TS]

00:09:42   that was still the prologue and chapter [TS]

00:09:44   one begins and it's a totally different [TS]

00:09:46   timeframe and it's these it's these kind [TS]

00:09:49   of wise guy crooks who are working on a [TS]

00:09:51   scheme and I'm thinking to myself [TS]

00:09:54   has there been an error have I have a [TS]

00:09:56   stroke as my kindle rebooted what has [TS]

00:09:59   what just happened [TS]

00:10:00   and in the end we discovered that there [TS]

00:10:01   there is this it's not entirely the a [TS]

00:10:04   plot in the B plot because it does drop [TS]

00:10:06   off sort of after all that there's their [TS]

00:10:09   flashbacks to explain things in the plot [TS]

00:10:10   but it kind of keeps accelerating but it [TS]

00:10:12   goes for a while and I kept thinking I I [TS]

00:10:14   it I guess what I'm saying is it kind of [TS]

00:10:16   frustrated me because I felt like there [TS]

00:10:18   was sort of it was slowing things down [TS]

00:10:20   at a point where I wasn't being kind of [TS]

00:10:22   the good kind of tormented of like no no [TS]

00:10:24   I want to find out what happens next it [TS]

00:10:25   was more like Oh more of this now okay [TS]

00:10:28   and it picked up eventually but it was I [TS]

00:10:32   thought this was a really slow starter [TS]

00:10:33   and I i really struggled for its through [TS]

00:10:36   through the beginning of chapter one and [TS]

00:10:38   I could say that because it was very [TS]

00:10:39   long to get there so I thought that was [TS]

00:10:41   strange I thought it was a strange way [TS]

00:10:43   to start it is a little it is a little [TS]

00:10:45   uh unconventional and i agree there's a [TS]

00:10:47   lot of that it was different for me [TS]

00:10:49   because i was reading for the most [TS]

00:10:51   recently for the second time I can't [TS]

00:10:52   tell you how much I what I thought the [TS]

00:10:54   first time that was many years ago but [TS]

00:10:56   this time around knowing what was coming [TS]

00:10:58   I was like all right I'm filling in the [TS]

00:10:59   backstory and remembering all these [TS]

00:11:01   things about his childhood but it but [TS]

00:11:04   also knowing that that wasn't the main [TS]

00:11:05   thrust of the plot and I think even even [TS]

00:11:08   Scotland has said himself that you know [TS]

00:11:10   yeah if you would go back he would do it [TS]

00:11:11   differently but [TS]

00:11:13   yeah too late but it is well dan I [TS]

00:11:15   brought in your past self from 2007-12 [TS]

00:11:17   to join us now to tell us what you [TS]

00:11:19   thought [TS]

00:11:20   no sorry i really like oh boy i had not [TS]

00:11:25   quit smoking at that point you know [TS]

00:11:27   unfortunately wow did the end 2007 you [TS]

00:11:30   sounded like sort of a high voice [TS]

00:11:32   confused Scott McNulty was strange [TS]

00:11:34   it's very weird iris drive it worked [TS]

00:11:36   hard to lose that accent [TS]

00:11:37   Monty what did you what it what did you [TS]

00:11:39   think of the lies of locke lamora um I [TS]

00:11:43   enjoyed it enormously [TS]

00:11:44   I don't know if I think it's a good book [TS]

00:11:46   or a bad book but I really really liked [TS]

00:11:49   the character of lock so much that it [TS]

00:11:53   carries me through almost any do any [TS]

00:11:55   amount of gratuitous murder of which [TS]

00:11:59   there is quite a bit [TS]

00:12:00   yes [TS]

00:12:05   like I really like that lock is [TS]

00:12:08   consistently drawn he's got his [TS]

00:12:10   superpower which i can say because in [TS]

00:12:12   the title of the book [TS]

00:12:14   he's a very good liar yes and at any [TS]

00:12:18   point in order to get out of whatever [TS]

00:12:20   situation has gotten himself in he he [TS]

00:12:23   will probably get out by being a very [TS]

00:12:25   good liar and I appreciate that kind of [TS]

00:12:27   consistency in a book that lets say he's [TS]

00:12:31   in a swordfight he's not necessarily be [TS]

00:12:33   greatest sword fighter that sword [TS]

00:12:35   fighting plus lying will result in him [TS]

00:12:37   winning i enjoy lock so much that well I [TS]

00:12:41   want to say i would watch him do [TS]

00:12:42   anything but i never got around to [TS]

00:12:44   reading the later books in the series so [TS]

00:12:46   that was strictly true you don't love [TS]

00:12:49   him that much but presented with him [TS]

00:12:51   doing something I enjoy I enjoy watching [TS]

00:12:54   it happen when he's got his little [TS]

00:12:55   friends he's got a little gang [TS]

00:12:57   well I mean so you've got his mean it's [TS]

00:12:58   like it's like watching a buddy cop show [TS]

00:13:02   to a certain extent right because you've [TS]

00:13:03   got you've also got gene tannin who is [TS]

00:13:05   the other sort of Maine ish character [TS]

00:13:07   and the two of them have a report that [TS]

00:13:09   is very reminiscent of you know a lot of [TS]

00:13:12   character driven procedural shows [TS]

00:13:14   yeah and my favorite classic fantasy [TS]

00:13:17   series is factored in the gray Mouser by [TS]

00:13:20   fitz labor so I like seeing sort of [TS]

00:13:23   their descendants in the dnd thief class [TS]

00:13:27   rep sticking around got worried about [TS]

00:13:30   you what do you think of of the LifeLock [TS]

00:13:33   Maura [TS]

00:13:34   well i thought that i had read this book [TS]

00:13:36   years ago and I just looked at my list [TS]

00:13:38   of books that I read last year and [TS]

00:13:40   apparently i read in march so who do I [TS]

00:13:43   don't think it really has no bearing on [TS]

00:13:45   if I like the book or not I didn't like [TS]

00:13:47   the book it was the first 1i thought so [TS]

00:13:51   there are three so far in the series [TS]

00:13:53   the first one is the strongest the [TS]

00:13:56   second one is the weakest and the third [TS]

00:13:59   point i think is the second-strongest so [TS]

00:14:02   I think he does a good job of creating [TS]

00:14:04   these characters like everyone said and [TS]

00:14:05   putting them into interesting situations [TS]

00:14:07   i don't know if it adds up to much [TS]

00:14:10   overall but I thought it was an [TS]

00:14:12   enjoyable read and I did get find it [TS]

00:14:16   annoying [TS]

00:14:17   the i read the wikipedia entry and they [TS]

00:14:20   list the characters in the book and at [TS]

00:14:24   the the last person they list is a [TS]

00:14:27   Sabitha right doesn't appear in this not [TS]

00:14:30   haha yes which i found it was kind of [TS]

00:14:32   like served not appearing in this film [TS]

00:14:34   often mentioned never seen [TS]

00:14:37   I in fact me not seen in either of the [TS]

00:14:40   first two books it's true and then the [TS]

00:14:42   time she was here she she is a very [TS]

00:14:44   major character in the third book but it [TS]

00:14:45   does take a long time to see her I mean [TS]

00:14:47   you sort of get an idea [TS]

00:14:48   she's a character drawn by her absence [TS]

00:14:50   like there's a guy I always pronounce [TS]

00:14:52   its abbas Sabbath I don't know but [TS]

00:14:55   there's H a hole in her shape that runs [TS]

00:14:58   through the entire narrative that they [TS]

00:15:00   talk a lot up yeah about water and you [TS]

00:15:03   you realize in the third book that's [TS]

00:15:06   because she is a integral integral part [TS]

00:15:08   especially of locks life but it is it is [TS]

00:15:11   an interesting take on not having such [TS]

00:15:15   an integral character in you know after [TS]

00:15:17   doing you know a thousand pages about [TS]

00:15:19   these guys [TS]

00:15:19   yeah it's a strange decision alright [TS]

00:15:21   time for a break to talk about our [TS]

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00:15:36   your mail scans it for viruses and spam [TS]

00:15:38   and then passes the good stuff along to [TS]

00:15:41   you so there's no hardware or software [TS]

00:15:42   required to install or maintain mail [TS]

00:15:46   route now let's look here I'm using mail [TS]

00:15:48   route for my domain and if i log into [TS]

00:15:51   the easy tools that are available for [TS]

00:15:53   every user on mail route that I see I've [TS]

00:15:55   got a fake life insurance ad I've got [TS]

00:15:58   something called deep-sea miracle [TS]

00:16:00   nutrient I've got a fake amazon gift [TS]

00:16:03   card that's totally a scam and this is [TS]

00:16:05   just stuff that's come in today as I [TS]

00:16:07   record this [TS]

00:16:08   there's a great thing called spam that's [TS]

00:16:11   really nice that they tell you that it's [TS]

00:16:12   Pam it's in here [TS]

00:16:13   I never got any of this this stuff is [TS]

00:16:15   there on the server in case there's [TS]

00:16:17   something that they find that they think [TS]

00:16:19   is spam but it turns out is not they [TS]

00:16:21   send you a really convenient email that [TS]

00:16:23   you can configure how often you get it [TS]

00:16:25   and you can whitelist things straight [TS]

00:16:26   from there and have more deliver the [TS]

00:16:28   message into your mail but most of the [TS]

00:16:29   time I don't even go to the web [TS]

00:16:30   other than to gloat about all this [TS]

00:16:33   terrible mail that isn't going in my [TS]

00:16:34   inbox that's what mail route does [TS]

00:16:36   they're focusing on delivering only the [TS]

00:16:38   clean email you want and if you're an [TS]

00:16:40   admin the tools are built with you in [TS]

00:16:42   mind there's an API they support ldap [TS]

00:16:44   Active Directory TLS you name it all [TS]

00:16:47   sorts of things that you'd want from [TS]

00:16:49   people who are handling your email and [TS]

00:16:51   if you're a single user or a small [TS]

00:16:52   domain like mine I've got my friends and [TS]

00:16:54   family on it [TS]

00:16:55   there are no user minimum so large or [TS]

00:16:56   small universities governments [TS]

00:16:58   corporations in the little guy mail [TS]

00:17:00   route can handle you for a free trial [TS]

00:17:02   and one step sign up [TS]

00:17:05   here's where you go mail route dotnet / [TS]

00:17:08   incomparable and you let them know that [TS]

00:17:10   we sent you and you get ten percent off [TS]

00:17:12   the lifetime of your account and thank [TS]

00:17:14   you so much to mail route for cleaning [TS]

00:17:16   my mailbox and for sponsoring the [TS]

00:17:18   incomparable so one of the things I [TS]

00:17:21   really like I liked I liked when the [TS]

00:17:24   book picked up when the the scheme was [TS]

00:17:28   in place when there's almost a mean I [TS]

00:17:32   was gonna say that's almost a godfather [TS]

00:17:34   like it is a godfather like thing there [TS]

00:17:36   is the head of organized crime he hears [TS]

00:17:38   a godfather there there's a cosmic and [TS]

00:17:40   there's a plot against the Godfather @ @ [TS]

00:17:42   & and there's this there's this new guy [TS]

00:17:45   the the grey King freaky and and so that [TS]

00:17:51   there is this whole sort of like [TS]

00:17:52   Godfather like a bloody set of of [TS]

00:17:55   horrible things that happened murders [TS]

00:17:56   that happened in order to have this [TS]

00:17:58   organized-crime thing and and lock has [TS]

00:18:01   to make a decision at one point late in [TS]

00:18:03   the book in terms of getting some [TS]

00:18:04   revenge or saving a lot of people and so [TS]

00:18:08   you've got that you wanna okay we know [TS]

00:18:10   you're a thief but are you somebody who [TS]

00:18:11   is more concerned with killing this [TS]

00:18:13   person who did wrong or are you more [TS]

00:18:16   heroic person who will make that [TS]

00:18:18   decision and that's really interesting [TS]

00:18:19   and my favorite thing single favorite [TS]

00:18:21   thing in the entire book is there is a [TS]

00:18:23   great uh doubletwist basically where we [TS]

00:18:28   are [TS]

00:18:29   uh we're we're seeing lock doing a [TS]

00:18:31   put-on and and realizing that he's he's [TS]

00:18:35   he's put a fake story inside another [TS]

00:18:38   fake story that that he that he actually [TS]

00:18:40   lets the people he's conning know [TS]

00:18:43   they're being calm [TS]

00:18:44   and in order to set up a second con [TS]

00:18:46   which then there's another party that is [TS]

00:18:49   try mean that'sthat's made me laugh out [TS]

00:18:50   loud when I'm like wait cons within cons [TS]

00:18:53   within cons that was really that was [TS]

00:18:56   really very funny using his powers of [TS]

00:18:58   disguise and he's lying he's literally [TS]

00:19:00   telling a story to somebody and dressing [TS]

00:19:02   up in another costume breaking into [TS]

00:19:03   their house and telling them a different [TS]

00:19:05   story okay just don't trust that guy [TS]

00:19:07   that was that was really that was really [TS]

00:19:10   funny and at the end the action is [TS]

00:19:12   really excellent and and that the [TS]

00:19:14   payoffs of all the all the deaths I [TS]

00:19:16   thought were interesting there's a [TS]

00:19:17   little hand waving there's a there's a [TS]

00:19:20   ship that's parked in the harbor that's [TS]

00:19:22   are like that ship is out there why is [TS]

00:19:24   there no we're gonna tell you later but [TS]

00:19:28   you know that part was fun it was just [TS]

00:19:29   the slow i felt like he had so much that [TS]

00:19:32   he wanted to do he was so happy with [TS]

00:19:33   this idea of where lochmoor came from [TS]

00:19:36   that he took a lot of time to talk about [TS]

00:19:37   that when you know I i kinda then when I [TS]

00:19:42   when we switch time frames in there [TS]

00:19:43   there like in this alley and they're [TS]

00:19:46   riding horses and they're going in a [TS]

00:19:47   boat and all this stuff I'm like who are [TS]

00:19:49   these guys and why it's just I was [TS]

00:19:51   exhausted at that point and I didn't [TS]

00:19:53   really wanna die I will I was losing [TS]

00:19:55   patience with the book so i'm glad I [TS]

00:19:57   stuck with it but it really it was a [TS]

00:19:59   rough start [TS]

00:19:59   i'd say i don't think the finale was [TS]

00:20:01   maybe a little bit princess bride ii not [TS]

00:20:05   yet entirely a bad thing just with even [TS]

00:20:09   more getting stabbed I feel like there's [TS]

00:20:11   a lot of staff it's very stabby it well [TS]

00:20:13   and I like a mean into Marty's point i [TS]

00:20:15   liked the idea that you know the sort of [TS]

00:20:18   ultimate way that it plays out is not [TS]

00:20:21   that he you know lock is not your sword [TS]

00:20:24   you know swashbuckling sword-swinging [TS]

00:20:26   hero right [TS]

00:20:27   he's a guy who can take a punch and take [TS]

00:20:29   a lot of punches and eventually his [TS]

00:20:31   buddy who is a serious bruiser shows up [TS]

00:20:34   and so it was you know he's not he's [TS]

00:20:37   really good at some things but he's not [TS]

00:20:38   good at everything [TS]

00:20:39   yeah and I think that's what makes him a [TS]

00:20:41   fun character to watch he is also [TS]

00:20:43   incredibly flawed but he's no miles [TS]

00:20:46   producing I mean miles with us again has [TS]

00:20:48   his own flaws and in fact I think [TS]

00:20:50   locking miles are actually very similar [TS]

00:20:52   in that they're both very clever and [TS]

00:20:54   both you know very smart and and [TS]

00:20:56   resilient but at the same time [TS]

00:20:57   extremely confident of their own [TS]

00:21:00   abilities and sometimes to the point of [TS]

00:21:02   their downfall anything else we should [TS]

00:21:04   we should mention about livelaughlove [TS]

00:21:06   Maura it is bloody there's lots of [TS]

00:21:08   murder and counter murder there's a [TS]

00:21:11   there's a really nice couple of set [TS]

00:21:14   pieces in a tower that is up in these [TS]

00:21:16   crazy kind of alien built obsidian [TS]

00:21:19   skyscraper thingies where there's a [TS]

00:21:22   there's a good bit with an elevator [TS]

00:21:24   he jumps on the upside an elevator [TS]

00:21:28   there's a couple great i mean one of my [TS]

00:21:29   favorite little set-pieces is just a [TS]

00:21:31   story told in sort of you know in [TS]

00:21:34   passing which is about the Godfather [TS]

00:21:36   like character and how he comes to power [TS]

00:21:38   at one point because he has this thing [TS]

00:21:40   where he puts he has this really nice [TS]

00:21:42   rug and he keeps having people come in [TS]

00:21:45   and every time he's gonna like kill [TS]

00:21:46   people like they've rolled up the rug [TS]

00:21:48   and put it away and so you might like [TS]

00:21:50   all the other crime because this for [TS]

00:21:51   years and then the other crime bosses [TS]

00:21:53   come in one day and there although we're [TS]

00:21:55   busy all the rugs there you won't ruin [TS]

00:21:56   the rock and then kill software [TS]

00:21:58   development throws out the rug and i was [TS]

00:21:59   like i like that because that seems like [TS]

00:22:02   a clever you know conceit in something [TS]

00:22:04   that somebody who is a crime boss in [TS]

00:22:06   particularly brutal would do [TS]

00:22:08   yeah but it is an ice road [TS]

00:22:12   it is nice road but you know sometimes [TS]

00:22:13   you are when you're making an omelet you [TS]

00:22:15   gotta break a few rugs ties the room [TS]

00:22:17   together [TS]

00:22:17   also these the sub the subplot with this [TS]

00:22:19   the spider i think is is also one of the [TS]

00:22:22   guy i like the development of that [TS]

00:22:24   character because very easily could have [TS]

00:22:27   been a kind of stereotypical trubbish [TS]

00:22:33   you know spymaster character and instead [TS]

00:22:36   it turns out to be someone who is not [TS]

00:22:38   entirely who you suspect the end of that [TS]

00:22:40   was very strange that was that was part [TS]

00:22:42   of the ending that I that maybe this is [TS]

00:22:44   part of what money was getting to at the [TS]

00:22:46   very end it's sort of like well now i'm [TS]

00:22:48   going to retire a spymaster and you to [TS]

00:22:51   sort of random characters that don't [TS]

00:22:52   really seem qualified to be this at all [TS]

00:22:54   this at the most important job in the [TS]

00:22:55   entire country you will be the new [TS]

00:22:57   spymasters goodbye and I thought wait [TS]

00:23:00   but those they kind of suck why would [TS]

00:23:02   you what you know [TS]

00:23:04   come on is this a con is this some sort [TS]

00:23:07   of con they were the best that can more [TS]

00:23:09   heads off [TS]

00:23:10   that's pretty sad it is pretty sad they [TS]

00:23:12   keep getting ripped off their the first [TS]

00:23:15   people who actually got like seriously [TS]

00:23:16   con so you know they have experienced [TS]

00:23:18   that I guess that that seemed that [TS]

00:23:22   seemed all too law of economy of [TS]

00:23:24   characters for me that it was like you [TS]

00:23:26   you're nearby you be this new thing now [TS]

00:23:29   goodbye and that didn't that didn't [TS]

00:23:31   really make a lot of sense for me but [TS]

00:23:33   all in all I mean I liked it i did not [TS]

00:23:34   curse your name Dan after i finished it [TS]

00:23:37   probably good my actually was like wow [TS]

00:23:39   that's nice thanks Dan for buying me a [TS]

00:23:41   book and make me make me read it so i [TS]

00:23:43   would have been sad if you didn't like I [TS]

00:23:44   I it is it remains one of my favorites i [TS]

00:23:46   enjoyed reading it immensely [TS]

00:23:48   so secret sequels what we mentioned this [TS]

00:23:51   uh we mentioned this before where Scott [TS]

00:23:52   told us the second one was bad and the [TS]

00:23:55   good [TS]

00:23:55   therefore by the process of elimination [TS]

00:23:56   the third would be the second best is a [TS]

00:23:59   lot of people apparently didn't like the [TS]

00:24:01   third and I was even seeing some people [TS]

00:24:02   in the chat room say that i enjoyed the [TS]

00:24:04   third and part of that has to do with [TS]

00:24:06   the fact that sabita is a major [TS]

00:24:07   character in it i'm just gonna pronounce [TS]

00:24:09   her name that wakes that's how I saved [TS]

00:24:10   my head and I like the rapport between [TS]

00:24:13   her and lock it does so come a little [TS]

00:24:15   bit too too much of the you know i kinda [TS]

00:24:20   will they won't they sort of scenario [TS]

00:24:22   they also clearly have a lot of history [TS]

00:24:24   there is also a again they do this sort [TS]

00:24:26   of thing where they have a a second [TS]

00:24:29   second thread that tells a story from [TS]

00:24:32   when they are young girl yeah that that [TS]

00:24:35   sort of goes along at the same time [TS]

00:24:36   which is also in and of itself kind of a [TS]

00:24:38   cool con set up but yeah i agree it's [TS]

00:24:42   got the second one is the weakest though [TS]

00:24:44   it has some necessary things in it as [TS]

00:24:46   far as the plot goes in the development [TS]

00:24:48   of those characters go [TS]

00:24:49   yeah if you want to read these books I [TS]

00:24:51   would not suggest skipping not be [TS]

00:24:53   prepared to be disappointed you would be [TS]

00:24:56   very surprised at the beginning of the [TS]

00:24:57   third book is lowering the bar here is [TS]

00:24:59   what we're doing well I mean there's [TS]

00:25:01   still some great stuff and there's great [TS]

00:25:02   character moments and I think that's [TS]

00:25:03   what draws me through it even when the [TS]

00:25:05   plots I feel like art as strong the [TS]

00:25:07   relationship between lock and gene is [TS]

00:25:10   sort of the bedrock on which these [TS]

00:25:12   stories are built and that remains [TS]

00:25:14   pretty solid in my opinion so I think [TS]

00:25:17   that's kind of the thread that keeps me [TS]

00:25:19   going through it is the relationship [TS]

00:25:20   between those two characters [TS]

00:25:22   yeah I like Jean as a character [TS]

00:25:23   I think I like him more than I like lock [TS]

00:25:25   and you don't like miles either so that [TS]

00:25:28   kind of jobs true i like lock more than [TS]

00:25:31   like miles though so if I'm ranking and [TS]

00:25:33   gene and Ivan right i do like I've been [TS]

00:25:36   more than I like a miles and block screw [TS]

00:25:40   lock is a you know he is he's this [TS]

00:25:44   mysterious figure whereas gene you get [TS]

00:25:47   the sense when we know jeans story and [TS]

00:25:50   we know where he's coming from [TS]

00:25:51   in a way that we don't really from lock [TS]

00:25:53   and you know that that's the jeans [TS]

00:25:55   advantage again he's a known entity he's [TS]

00:25:58   he's a stalwart companion kind of the-- [TS]

00:26:02   Friar Tuck I supposed to Robin Hood a [TS]

00:26:05   fair enough [TS]

00:26:06   not as mercurial but you know like he's [TS]

00:26:09   saying more of a steady steady guiding [TS]

00:26:10   influence might be like we know lock [TS]

00:26:12   pretty well here's a guy who lies all [TS]

00:26:14   the time and makes things way more [TS]

00:26:16   complicated than he has to know that's [TS]

00:26:18   true that is true is all about style as [TS]

00:26:20   long as it's consistent i'm buying with [TS]

00:26:22   that that's one of the things that in a [TS]

00:26:24   story like this where you got this kind [TS]

00:26:25   of roguish hero who is kind of you know [TS]

00:26:27   he's he's a hero but he is also roguish [TS]

00:26:29   right one of the things that I like [TS]

00:26:31   about it is that he he is he pushes it a [TS]

00:26:36   little too far sometimes because he just [TS]

00:26:38   can't help himself and that's that you [TS]

00:26:40   know it's fun to see that to see him [TS]

00:26:41   like well let's try this [TS]

00:26:43   oh that didn't work right and that's [TS]

00:26:45   good that's what part of the enjoyment [TS]

00:26:46   of it it's that uh yeah he's a little [TS]

00:26:49   bit of a scoundrel and in some in some [TS]

00:26:51   cases and I writing by the seat of his [TS]

00:26:52   pants [TS]

00:26:53   yeah yeah you know it's gonna get him [TS]

00:26:55   into trouble one day but you just gotta [TS]

00:26:57   let him do it because you love him so [TS]

00:26:58   much [TS]

00:26:59   you know that's just it he's a lovable [TS]

00:27:01   scamp he is that is a little bit someone [TS]

00:27:04   and that someone in the chat room is [TS]

00:27:05   saying that the sequels are on the level [TS]

00:27:07   of the matrix sequels [TS]

00:27:08   yes i'm going to disagree with her [TS]

00:27:10   sickness right that's kinda harsh a [TS]

00:27:12   person AF Waller really did not like to [TS]

00:27:16   see ya or really like the matrix sequels [TS]

00:27:18   mr. let's don't let's not discount that [TS]

00:27:23   unlikely but possible possibility [TS]

00:27:27   so my question for you guys then is a 44 [TS]

00:27:29   Dana and Scott have read the other books [TS]

00:27:32   should i go down that path or should I [TS]

00:27:34   not [TS]

00:27:35   mmm it is [TS]

00:27:36   a path fraught with peril if you like if [TS]

00:27:40   you came out on balance positive on the [TS]

00:27:42   first book I feel like their stuff to [TS]

00:27:45   enjoy this equals well it depends on why [TS]

00:27:47   you read books right if you are and [TS]

00:27:50   they're like 2,000 words are the two [TS]

00:27:52   thousand pages more of these books [TS]

00:27:55   yeah I know yes I read books to learn [TS]

00:27:57   things and get tips about medieval and [TS]

00:28:00   and magical cons oh then well then [TS]

00:28:03   please we've got some books whatever you [TS]

00:28:05   have at it [TS]

00:28:06   alright well i think that the these are [TS]

00:28:08   very character-driven and if you enjoy [TS]

00:28:10   the characters of lock and gene then by [TS]

00:28:13   all means [TS]

00:28:14   alright looks if you are more interested [TS]

00:28:16   in a plot that perhaps makes sense maybe [TS]

00:28:20   not fair enough why I will say this [TS]

00:28:22   given everything you've said about the [TS]

00:28:23   second book in the series it the bars [TS]

00:28:26   said rather low my expectations are not [TS]

00:28:28   set so high if i do better and i'll be [TS]

00:28:30   like alright let's see how bad this is [TS]

00:28:32   and then maybe i'll be surprised Jason [TS]

00:28:34   how do you feel about boats [TS]

00:28:35   I'm great at boats you're right about [TS]

00:28:37   excellent excellent then the second book [TS]

00:28:39   let me tell you you'll be all for that's [TS]

00:28:40   what he wants a lot of boats i'm [TS]

00:28:42   interested in the comings and goings of [TS]

00:28:44   various boats there's a lot of nautical [TS]

00:28:46   intrigue interesting [TS]

00:28:48   ok we should move on but that is the [TS]

00:28:51   lies of locke lamora by Scott Lynch it's [TS]

00:28:53   available everywhere I wouldn't wait [TS]

00:28:55   around for Dan morning to buy you a copy [TS]

00:28:57   because i think it's alright he only [TS]

00:28:59   does that for for me stingy maybe maybe [TS]

00:29:04   some of our other fine panelists didn't [TS]

00:29:06   buy me a copy or or I'm assuming you [TS]

00:29:09   didn't buy montia copy either it's true [TS]

00:29:11   you guys already read it [TS]

00:29:12   well yeah probably how convenient for [TS]

00:29:15   you yeah look at that monkey dad lucky [TS]

00:29:17   Dan that's what they call me [TS]

00:29:19   alright time to take a brief break so i [TS]

00:29:21   can tell you about our sponsor lynda.com [TS]

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00:29:48   taking some courses on lynda.com [TS]

00:29:50   told you about some of them in the past [TS]

00:29:51   as a self-taught audio guy I find having [TS]

00:29:55   the experts at lynda.com explain to me [TS]

00:29:58   what the heck I've been doing and what [TS]

00:29:59   I've been doing wrong to be really [TS]

00:30:01   interesting they've got lots of courses [TS]

00:30:02   about recording audio about compression [TS]

00:30:05   and noise gates and expanders and things [TS]

00:30:08   that I just don't know anything about [TS]

00:30:10   and i use them in preset ways that [TS]

00:30:14   smarter people than me have told me [TS]

00:30:16   about and now I can start to understand [TS]

00:30:19   it because i'm looking at those courses [TS]

00:30:20   on lynda.com same about logic which I [TS]

00:30:22   use to edit the podcast lynda.com has [TS]

00:30:25   huge amounts of logic material but it [TS]

00:30:27   doesn't stop there [TS]

00:30:28   they've got other audio programs and [TS]

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00:30:51   lynda.com like I said that people who [TS]

00:30:54   teach these courses are the experts [TS]

00:30:55   these are not people who are just kind [TS]

00:30:57   of making this up these are working [TS]

00:30:58   professionals at the top of their game [TS]

00:31:00   and now they're going to teach you with [TS]

00:31:02   these very clear professionally done [TS]

00:31:04   videos how to do these things how to [TS]

00:31:07   learn these skills and it definitely [TS]

00:31:09   works because i have learned so much [TS]

00:31:11   from my short time using lynda.com and [TS]

00:31:14   the courses are really well structured [TS]

00:31:16   you can learn from start to finish you [TS]

00:31:17   can jump to a particular chapter there's [TS]

00:31:19   a text transcript really well done you [TS]

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00:31:24   entire library as part of your free [TS]

00:31:27   trial you go to linda.com ly nba.com [TS]

00:31:30   slash incomparable that's lynda.com / [TS]

00:31:35   and comparable and thanks so much to [TS]

00:31:36   linda.com for teaching me to be a better [TS]

00:31:39   audio editor and for sponsoring the [TS]

00:31:41   incomparable alright let's move on to [TS]

00:31:43   talk about ancillary justice which is a [TS]

00:31:46   more recent book because it was [TS]

00:31:47   published last year and Scott really [TS]

00:31:49   loved it and lucky [TS]

00:31:52   Scott you you describe this in a [TS]

00:31:55   previous episode briefly but i was [TS]

00:31:56   wondering if you could do us the favor [TS]

00:31:57   again I was struck by it being [TS]

00:32:01   a little bit like I've only read a [TS]

00:32:03   couple in banks culture novels but it [TS]

00:32:05   felt a little bit like that it seemed to [TS]

00:32:07   get to have a very similar kind of feel [TS]

00:32:09   in that in that space opera with a man [TS]

00:32:12   you know human ish but yet very alien [TS]

00:32:16   culture at the center of it yes it is [TS]

00:32:20   quite Banksy and I suppose systems and [TS]

00:32:22   work it is now unfortunately it means [TS]

00:32:24   like the street artist banksy so banks [TS]

00:32:27   you know that's just [TS]

00:32:28   whoa that is not what i got from this [TS]

00:32:31   look like your local uh safe [TS]

00:32:33   savings-and-loan it's that it's very [TS]

00:32:35   much like a local bank that's right in [TS]

00:32:40   that I it was very interested it is a [TS]

00:32:44   little banging anybody know right anyway [TS]

00:32:47   perhaps you should have saved it [TS]

00:32:50   I'm going to assess you a fee for bad [TS]

00:32:51   joke oh so yes this was it is it is a [TS]

00:32:57   kind of a a modern in the vein of the [TS]

00:33:00   modern space opera right [TS]

00:33:01   it involves this character named brick [TS]

00:33:04   who is we should we should fire off the [TS]

00:33:08   spoiler horn and then inserted retro [TS]

00:33:11   actively before spot Scott explained all [TS]

00:33:14   of those things about the river ranch so [TS]

00:33:16   let's fire off the spoiler horn now for [TS]

00:33:20   ancillary justice [TS]

00:33:26   well it's hard to describe right soso in [TS]

00:33:29   breck is one facet of an artificial [TS]

00:33:32   intelligence that ran a ship that [TS]

00:33:36   something happened to it we don't know [TS]

00:33:38   in the beginning of the novel what's [TS]

00:33:40   going on with brick and breakfast part [TS]

00:33:41   of an alien race that doesn't really [TS]

00:33:43   have a concept of gender & bread also [TS]

00:33:46   doesn't really have a car isn't totally [TS]

00:33:49   comfortable being an individual which [TS]

00:33:52   makes it an interesting viewpoint [TS]

00:33:54   character because you you've got gender [TS]

00:33:56   confusion and a protagonist that's not [TS]

00:33:59   quite certain of its own individuality [TS]

00:34:01   which is an interesting combination and [TS]

00:34:05   so a brac spent most of its time I think [TS]

00:34:09   about a thousand years being this part [TS]

00:34:11   of this multifaceted intelligence that [TS]

00:34:14   ran the ship the Justice of Toren the [TS]

00:34:18   Justice of Toren that's right and they [TS]

00:34:19   know go about doing things and [TS]

00:34:22   conquering planets and the way that this [TS]

00:34:24   society propagates itself is that it [TS]

00:34:27   much like the Roman Empire it captured [TS]

00:34:29   conquering its neighbors and to [TS]

00:34:32   manufacture soldiers they would take the [TS]

00:34:36   corpses of the Concord worlds and store [TS]

00:34:40   them in their ships why i think yet [TS]

00:34:42   technically they would make them corpses [TS]

00:34:45   well the street and then they would [TS]

00:34:46   store the corpse it's not taking me not [TS]

00:34:49   taking pre existing courses because that [TS]

00:34:51   would be parented process that first [TS]

00:34:55   involves killing the native population [TS]

00:34:57   it's a little like plan9 now that i [TS]

00:35:00   think about it and then the these bodies [TS]

00:35:06   are stored on the ship and the ship can [TS]

00:35:08   insert some sort of technology that then [TS]

00:35:11   takes over the bodies in those bodies [TS]

00:35:13   than house different facets of its [TS]

00:35:15   intelligence but they are all kind of [TS]

00:35:19   one hole yet separate beings kind of [TS]

00:35:23   like the Holy Trinity you know [TS]

00:35:24   completely different spaceship ok this [TS]

00:35:28   podcast is now blasphemy [TS]

00:35:29   so thanks Scott thanks like doing the [TS]

00:35:32   Pope is just condemned our podcast good [TS]

00:35:34   job [TS]

00:35:35   the Pope is a Jesuit he's cool with us [TS]

00:35:37   alright fair enough he prefers the [TS]

00:35:38   sparrow [TS]

00:35:39   it has probably well maybe not depends [TS]

00:35:41   well yeah you're right you're right all [TS]

00:35:44   right so anyway this character brake is [TS]

00:35:50   on a quest to find a gun [TS]

00:35:53   we're not sure why until it becomes [TS]

00:35:55   clear that he wants to [TS]

00:35:57   well she is wants to kill the ruler of [TS]

00:35:59   his civilization the lord of the radish [TS]

00:36:03   against radish and we find out that the [TS]

00:36:05   Lord of radish is in fact not one person [TS]

00:36:09   but I has hundreds of our maybe 200,000 [TS]

00:36:13   tens of thousands of bodies that are all [TS]

00:36:16   connected in some way and unbeknownst to [TS]

00:36:19   us the lord of the ranch who apparently [TS]

00:36:22   is a you know driving force of society [TS]

00:36:24   and who everyone thinks of as this [TS]

00:36:28   sacrosanct person is in fact splintering [TS]

00:36:32   within itself and fighting an internal [TS]

00:36:34   civil war amongst its own bodies and [TS]

00:36:37   using the various ships against itself [TS]

00:36:40   so that the little one version of the [TS]

00:36:42   Lord of radish would visit a ship and [TS]

00:36:44   then erase the fact that it was there [TS]

00:36:46   and then another version would come and [TS]

00:36:48   erase the version that was already there [TS]

00:36:50   it gets a little confusing [TS]

00:36:52   yep that was a very very like wide he'll [TS]

00:36:56   go crazy in 2001 it's that it had [TS]

00:36:58   conflicting orders and that's sort of [TS]

00:37:00   what happens in an ancillary justice is [TS]

00:37:03   there's the leader of this Empire but [TS]

00:37:05   the leader itself is it issuing [TS]

00:37:10   conflicting orders because it's at war [TS]

00:37:12   with itself and this is freaking out [TS]

00:37:14   these artificial intelligences on the [TS]

00:37:16   ship's I thought that was really clever [TS]

00:37:19   I at the same time I was a little [TS]

00:37:21   confused because the only other people [TS]

00:37:23   quote unquote that we saw with the [TS]

00:37:25   multibody things for ships as opposed to [TS]

00:37:28   the Emperor who is also was a presumably [TS]

00:37:31   all of those are people [TS]

00:37:33   yes it's a little weird because they're [TS]

00:37:36   not quite analogous in that like one is [TS]

00:37:39   clearly corpses of this like of like AI [TS]

00:37:41   whereas one is a person's consciousness [TS]

00:37:43   spread over many bodies [TS]

00:37:45   it's a hard book to summarize i think [TS]

00:37:47   yes a great a great immune to add a [TS]

00:37:50   certain level it's it's very [TS]

00:37:51   straightforward [TS]

00:37:52   a breakfast it was seeking vengeance but [TS]

00:37:56   against a tyrant basically but [TS]

00:37:59   explaining i think it's much more [TS]

00:38:00   nuanced than that and there's a lot of [TS]

00:38:02   going on beyond well it's do once and [TS]

00:38:05   yet on another level III get the sense [TS]

00:38:08   that breck isn't quite sure what exactly [TS]

00:38:12   she's gonna do [TS]

00:38:14   she sort of like well we get the gun the [TS]

00:38:16   gun can can can make some trouble [TS]

00:38:19   I'm gonna make some trouble and we'll [TS]

00:38:21   see how much trouble I can make before [TS]

00:38:22   they better have to kill but she also [TS]

00:38:24   knows she can't kill the Emperor is [TS]

00:38:27   going from Lord of the radch cuz ya ya [TS]

00:38:29   Ave because it [TS]

00:38:31   he/she has many bodies and thus it's [TS]

00:38:34   impossible free for want to kill all of [TS]

00:38:36   them and there's a point towards the end [TS]

00:38:38   of the book were breakeven says I then [TS]

00:38:41   realized that my whole plan was [TS]

00:38:42   impossible but yeah it's true [TS]

00:38:45   who well thanks well also what's weird [TS]

00:38:49   about the Civil War is that and I kind [TS]

00:38:52   of actually dug this in which was which [TS]

00:38:55   side is the right side and it turns out [TS]

00:38:57   neither of the right like basically [TS]

00:39:00   there's one that might be slightly more [TS]

00:39:01   beneficial to breakfast continued [TS]

00:39:03   existence right and there are some [TS]

00:39:06   philosophical differences there but at [TS]

00:39:08   the same time she's kind of trying to [TS]

00:39:11   kill all of them all the it's not like [TS]

00:39:13   there's a good one a bad one it's more [TS]

00:39:15   like this politics because they're doing [TS]

00:39:17   the ratch Empire is and i called at the [TS]

00:39:20   ranch I don't know that works for me but [TS]

00:39:22   it's it's there [TS]

00:39:24   they're not very nice they're there they [TS]

00:39:27   bake conquer these planets and they do [TS]

00:39:28   all these terrible things actually one [TS]

00:39:29   of things i really appreciate about this [TS]

00:39:30   book is that we don't you know in i [TS]

00:39:34   would i would say like 50 sci-fi you [TS]

00:39:36   could have a story like this about a [TS]

00:39:38   hive mind made up of bodies and and you [TS]

00:39:41   wouldn't worry about who these things [TS]

00:39:43   these people were before well we took [TS]

00:39:44   dead bodies and we and we made them into [TS]

00:39:46   people and and the plot of ancillary [TS]

00:39:49   justice pivots on the mistreatment of [TS]

00:39:54   the people by the Empire and a and a [TS]

00:39:57   massacre and so it's not they don't [TS]

00:40:01   steer away at all from the kind of [TS]

00:40:03   horrific society that [TS]

00:40:05   that causes this scenario to exist it's [TS]

00:40:09   part of the story i really like that and [TS]

00:40:12   and instead what we get with the two [TS]

00:40:14   warring factions within the Emperor [TS]

00:40:15   which is you know is that that's like [TS]

00:40:17   ego and super-ego or whatever its except [TS]

00:40:19   spread out on all these bodies it's kind [TS]

00:40:21   of interesting the internal conflict of [TS]

00:40:23   the Emperor is no external but what's at [TS]

00:40:26   the end politically what the difference [TS]

00:40:28   is is that they they ran into this alien [TS]

00:40:30   race and the alien race looked at them [TS]

00:40:32   and said while you're really two things [TS]

00:40:35   right it's like you were the first [TS]

00:40:37   interesting species that we would [TS]

00:40:39   actually consider sentient so we're not [TS]

00:40:41   going to completely destroy you but also [TS]

00:40:43   you are really bad and we are going to [TS]

00:40:46   do bad things to you if you don't stop [TS]

00:40:48   and one of the one part of the Emperor [TS]

00:40:51   wants to say screw those guys and the [TS]

00:40:54   other one set is the one who said all [TS]

00:40:56   right I guess we're gonna have to stop [TS]

00:40:58   expanding our Empire and just sit here [TS]

00:41:00   and not conquer even any other kind of [TS]

00:41:02   human cultures or just gonna sit it out [TS]

00:41:06   and then they have this fight and it's [TS]

00:41:07   an interesting thing because i'm not in [TS]

00:41:08   that way you kind of rooting for the [TS]

00:41:10   aliens who have said stop [TS]

00:41:12   you guys are are bad you need to stop [TS]

00:41:13   this right well and there's all these [TS]

00:41:16   other like little plots of you know that [TS]

00:41:19   in retrospect are clues that sort of [TS]

00:41:22   make up this Civil War right because we [TS]

00:41:24   get these flashbacks to that so part of [TS]

00:41:28   it is the flashbacks to that last [TS]

00:41:30   occupation annexation whatever you want [TS]

00:41:32   to call it and we actually see brac as a [TS]

00:41:35   ship at that point experiencing that [TS]

00:41:37   whole annexation and that sort of being [TS]

00:41:39   one of the tipping points but we also [TS]

00:41:41   have these couple pivotal events they [TS]

00:41:43   talk about it was the emai where there's [TS]

00:41:46   like a governor who's going like corrupt [TS]

00:41:49   and is doing things behind people's [TS]

00:41:51   backs and it turns out maybe that plays [TS]

00:41:53   into the Civil War and then there's also [TS]

00:41:55   the whole incident with the gun itself [TS]

00:41:58   and where it came from which was to save [TS]

00:42:00   the aliens I think they provide it to ya [TS]

00:42:04   other group that's literally gun-running [TS]

00:42:06   that's happening in the background here [TS]

00:42:07   which is we're not like invisible [TS]

00:42:08   gun-running though that's important [TS]

00:42:11   yes invisible armor piercing shield [TS]

00:42:14   piercing gun running one of the people [TS]

00:42:16   in the chat room pointed out something [TS]

00:42:17   that's very nice we just you know you [TS]

00:42:18   could argue [TS]

00:42:19   since one of the Emperor's is is [TS]

00:42:21   basically on the side of not conquering [TS]

00:42:23   all these planets and killing all the [TS]

00:42:25   people to use as Corp soldiers and the [TS]

00:42:27   other one is in favor of that that you [TS]

00:42:29   could be you could probably lean to one [TS]

00:42:31   side I think what we're saying is more [TS]

00:42:33   that that neither of them was without [TS]

00:42:34   sin here there one may be worse than the [TS]

00:42:37   other strand but they do they make they [TS]

00:42:39   make they make a clear point though that [TS]

00:42:41   the the the normal radish troops are [TS]

00:42:46   much worse [TS]

00:42:47   yes the court executives right and that [TS]

00:42:49   they caused many more massacres the car [TS]

00:42:51   so I mean not that I'm pro-corporate i [TS]

00:42:54   mean just see it's martin admit McNulty [TS]

00:42:56   if you don't want corpse troops then [TS]

00:42:59   your door hinges are going to be all [TS]

00:43:00   gunky that's right that in that in that [TS]

00:43:03   ends up being a problem I i don't know i [TS]

00:43:05   didn't find either those care either the [TS]

00:43:07   factions particularly cut and cut and [TS]

00:43:10   dried when it came to that I mean and [TS]

00:43:12   and that's interesting in some ways it's [TS]

00:43:14   probably better than if there was simply [TS]

00:43:16   black and white but at the same time III [TS]

00:43:18   felt like the differences and we're not [TS]

00:43:21   exactly subtle but like I had to you [TS]

00:43:23   know wait is this okay so this guy's [TS]

00:43:25   talking about this but we also talked [TS]

00:43:26   about why that was good you know like [TS]

00:43:27   having the ancillary is better than [TS]

00:43:29   humans in some places so like you're [TS]

00:43:30   trying to balance that and i think it it [TS]

00:43:32   ends up being icon with breakfast just [TS]

00:43:33   kill them all [TS]

00:43:34   yeah my god started having these dead [TS]

00:43:37   these people we've killed brought back [TS]

00:43:39   as a slave bodies for the only obvious [TS]

00:43:42   that is not good but our hero is [TS]

00:43:45   ostensibly one of those to which is [TS]

00:43:47   which makes it somewhat you know [TS]

00:43:49   entertainment and remembers having all [TS]

00:43:51   these ancillary zand being really happy [TS]

00:43:53   so yeah this is the suggestiveness this [TS]

00:43:56   is the richness of this of this book is [TS]

00:43:58   that we've got this high-level [TS]

00:43:59   background that the story is told [TS]

00:44:02   against which is as as broad widescreen [TS]

00:44:05   space operas you get it [TS]

00:44:07   Oh an alien or human Empire an alien [TS]

00:44:11   Empire and the taking over planets and [TS]

00:44:13   converting dead bodies into ship [TS]

00:44:16   ancillary and all of that and yet it and [TS]

00:44:19   then inside that we've got this struggle [TS]

00:44:21   of identity with brac who is you know we [TS]

00:44:24   haven't even talked very much about this [TS]

00:44:26   is a hive mind that we're one of the B's [TS]

00:44:29   you know and all the bees are human [TS]

00:44:31   intelligence their people and [TS]

00:44:32   then one of them gets cut off from all [TS]

00:44:34   the others so they are the they are the [TS]

00:44:37   impression of the hive mind and they [TS]

00:44:39   have been thinking of themselves as the [TS]

00:44:40   hive mind all along and now all of a [TS]

00:44:43   sudden break is a person and it was [TS]

00:44:45   fascinating is break even has a hard [TS]

00:44:47   time thinking of herself as a person [TS]

00:44:49   she's a ship that happens to be in one [TS]

00:44:52   ancillary when in fact she is what we [TS]

00:44:53   would call a person and that's a fact [TS]

00:44:56   that's fascinating to me that yeah [TS]

00:44:58   there's this real struggle on this is a [TS]

00:45:01   character who starts out your custom [TS]

00:45:02   sort of kind of wandering and depressed [TS]

00:45:05   and and because she's lost have been [TS]

00:45:08   everything she's lost most of herself [TS]

00:45:10   and that and she is this last echo of [TS]

00:45:13   almost like a ghost an echo of a [TS]

00:45:15   creature that doesn't exist anymore [TS]

00:45:17   yeah to break Rex name is justice of [TS]

00:45:20   Toren because that was the name of the [TS]

00:45:21   ship that wreck was the AI of it's not [TS]

00:45:24   even that it's justice of Toren and she [TS]

00:45:26   was the one ask one ask one asks 17 or [TS]

00:45:30   something like that 19 yeah I mean it's [TS]

00:45:32   a one of this huge thing and that's all [TS]

00:45:35   that's left is one asked night which is [TS]

00:45:36   why I thought the whole concept which is [TS]

00:45:39   made this book just a very interesting [TS]

00:45:42   to me which is you know why it was my [TS]

00:45:44   favorite book of the year because I just [TS]

00:45:46   thought there were so many layers to it [TS]

00:45:47   and it took kind of a familiar story and [TS]

00:45:52   gave it a very interesting in new twist [TS]

00:45:54   and spin to it and plus I think she's a [TS]

00:45:56   good writer [TS]

00:45:57   I could have done with fewer layers like [TS]

00:46:00   well I can get murky I felt the book had [TS]

00:46:03   too many ideas like the ongoing thing [TS]

00:46:06   about how wreck doesn't know what gender [TS]

00:46:09   people are that meant nothing [TS]

00:46:11   yep and just got in the way you got that [TS]

00:46:14   was like a negative means use the hell [TS]

00:46:16   that like because and I and I understand [TS]

00:46:18   if you're making a point about like you [TS]

00:46:20   know in the future gender doesn't matter [TS]

00:46:21   if you're in like you know that's [TS]

00:46:23   totally cool I'm all on board with that [TS]

00:46:25   but the fact that it was used in such a [TS]

00:46:27   place where it's like I can't picture [TS]

00:46:28   these characters [TS]

00:46:29   yeah because I don't know if it like [TS]

00:46:31   maybe I should not be bound by the [TS]

00:46:32   constructs of gender but guess what I am [TS]

00:46:34   because I live in the 21st century and [TS]

00:46:36   that we still do things that would it be [TS]

00:46:38   for yourself if you're going to [TS]

00:46:39   Australia gender this is a great idea if [TS]

00:46:42   you're going to tell story that's not [TS]

00:46:43   about gender really i mean it is about [TS]

00:46:45   identity and [TS]

00:46:46   way but it's not really about gender [TS]

00:46:47   identity yeah it's a strange choice I i [TS]

00:46:50   was struck early on they flee out of [TS]

00:46:53   this town and go and their their ship [TS]

00:46:55   crashes and there in the snow and [TS]

00:46:58   they're walking to get in this super [TS]

00:46:59   cold planet and walking to get to this [TS]

00:47:01   place and I was really reminded of the [TS]

00:47:04   left hand of darkness which is which I [TS]

00:47:06   owe my memory of that book is it's it's [TS]

00:47:08   a it's very cold whole book it's a cold [TS]

00:47:12   cold thing and that was a book that was [TS]

00:47:14   about gender and gender identity and and [TS]

00:47:17   it would make sense for a book like that [TS]

00:47:19   this book is not I just I felt not about [TS]

00:47:22   that and she had a really clever idea [TS]

00:47:24   and it is clever and there's a very [TS]

00:47:26   funny moment where this this person [TS]

00:47:28   she's been toting around referring to as [TS]

00:47:30   a her all along you realize is a man [TS]

00:47:32   because she's like uses the other [TS]

00:47:34   language and you're like oh male ok that [TS]

00:47:38   yeah methanation way but is he [TS]

00:47:40   I but i don't know that that's true yeah [TS]

00:47:42   and like someone uses it but in the the [TS]

00:47:45   whole point is in the radical language [TS]

00:47:46   they don't have any Gentile buddy but [TS]

00:47:48   but she translated remembers oh I'm [TS]

00:47:50   using this language so i need to say [TS]

00:47:51   that it that that it's mail that she's [TS]

00:47:53   mail and and so you get that but it's [TS]

00:47:56   only in these times of the crack shows [TS]

00:47:58   and it's you know it's interesting to to [TS]

00:48:00   to see through the little crack in the [TS]

00:48:02   language to to the gender but in the end [TS]

00:48:04   was it really necessary for this book [TS]

00:48:06   yeah I don't think so i'd say i'd save [TS]

00:48:08   that for a book that really has things [TS]

00:48:09   to say about gender i highlighted it on [TS]

00:48:12   page 161 409 thirty-nine percent of the [TS]

00:48:15   way through the book it is clear as [TS]

00:48:19   Brett talks to stricken thats a garden [TS]

00:48:20   is male [TS]

00:48:22   yes guys as soon as the scenes / Brett [TS]

00:48:24   goes back to calling some part in her [TS]

00:48:25   because breakfast in terms of of the [TS]

00:48:28   ratch generalist language and i expect [TS]

00:48:32   in a sequel it will be made clear that [TS]

00:48:35   say pardon is in love with brick but I [TS]

00:48:36   don't see why we need the gender [TS]

00:48:38   confusion to conceal their brakes not [TS]

00:48:41   gonna notice anyway and we don't know [TS]

00:48:42   what gender break is and i love I kind [TS]

00:48:45   of assume female but again that's just [TS]

00:48:46   the she is the word that's used all [TS]

00:48:49   female pronouns are used throughout I [TS]

00:48:51   thought that was clever but it was to [TS]

00:48:53   the point of a yet the confusion of it [TS]

00:48:56   made it made it harder for you took me [TS]

00:48:58   out of the story because it Danny [TS]

00:49:00   trying to picture a character in my head [TS]

00:49:01   I just wasn't sure what to picture I had [TS]

00:49:04   a hard time getting a drawn character [TS]

00:49:05   and that's just the way i read it's like [TS]

00:49:07   you know image that I have that imagery [TS]

00:49:09   in my head so it made it difficult for [TS]

00:49:12   me and i agree with you Jason if it was [TS]

00:49:13   something that was really central to the [TS]

00:49:15   point of the book i think it could be [TS]

00:49:17   really interesting but in this book it [TS]

00:49:18   just took me out of the story [TS]

00:49:20   well i think it was central not doesn't [TS]

00:49:22   specifically the gender like you I don't [TS]

00:49:25   think this book is making a big point [TS]

00:49:28   about gender but it is making a big [TS]

00:49:29   point about identity and alien this and [TS]

00:49:33   how brick as a character is unsure of [TS]

00:49:36   itself and what it is and then as as the [TS]

00:49:39   readers this uncertainty about gender [TS]

00:49:41   kind of puts us in it confuses us it [TS]

00:49:43   makes it a little more difficult and [TS]

00:49:45   frustrating to read yes but it kind of [TS]

00:49:47   lets you sympathize with Brett because [TS]

00:49:49   break is going through this on a much [TS]

00:49:51   larger scale but it didn't make me [TS]

00:49:52   sympathize with bracket made me wonder [TS]

00:49:54   if brick was even for an AI out of its [TS]

00:49:57   computer stupid because there was a time [TS]

00:50:01   when Brett could read save gardens [TS]

00:50:04   heartbeat breakfast should know [TS]

00:50:06   everything about say Varden's physical [TS]

00:50:09   form and breck has had what was it like [TS]

00:50:13   12 years walking among people right it's [TS]

00:50:17   not that hard to learn the difference [TS]

00:50:19   between a male and a female body i could [TS]

00:50:21   cover it in a couple of sentences time I [TS]

00:50:23   said I think I think her point is is not [TS]

00:50:25   that they don't know it's that doesn't [TS]

00:50:27   matter culturally they considered [TS]

00:50:29   irrelevant and that language it's that [TS]

00:50:31   old i'm going to bring it bring out some [TS]

00:50:33   UCSD comm major you know Monty it's the [TS]

00:50:35   old sapir-whorf hypothesis that the [TS]

00:50:37   language defines a the defiance culture [TS]

00:50:40   and the way we think and so the idea i [TS]

00:50:42   mean that's the idea is they don't have [TS]

00:50:44   concept of gender it's not the gender [TS]

00:50:45   isn't there and they know that when a [TS]

00:50:47   when when a male she and a female she [TS]

00:50:50   loved each other very much they can make [TS]

00:50:52   a baby she but um it but that uh the [TS]

00:50:56   idea is that they just don't think in [TS]

00:50:57   those terms and so brac doesn't think in [TS]

00:50:59   those terms i i i agree though I I just [TS]

00:51:02   don't think it I i I'd I don't think [TS]

00:51:03   those issues are the issues of identity [TS]

00:51:05   that the book is about I think all it [TS]

00:51:07   does is it does add to the confusion and [TS]

00:51:10   makes us kind of confused like brac but [TS]

00:51:12   i think it's a neat idea but [TS]

00:51:13   this that book has a bunch of ideas [TS]

00:51:15   think this one could have been taken out [TS]

00:51:18   and i would have liked the look more i [TS]

00:51:20   also would have preferred to have fewer [TS]

00:51:22   wacky alien spellings because i don't [TS]

00:51:26   necessarily picture the people while I'm [TS]

00:51:28   reading a book read you try to pronounce [TS]

00:51:29   the words in my head and what I have to [TS]

00:51:31   deal with the red chai and there are no [TS]

00:51:34   that was a joke that was I thought that [TS]

00:51:36   her or was a really funny joke i am [TS]

00:51:38   always amused by that the early were [TS]

00:51:40   like six ours that's the desert name [TS]

00:51:42   yeah that's there because when you talk [TS]

00:51:44   to them to her [TS]

00:51:45   ok my my other issues that sort of held [TS]

00:51:49   me up in this book from really loving it [TS]

00:51:51   was having at the characterization I [TS]

00:51:54   found tough at times in terms of you can [TS]

00:51:57   have likable characters and unlikable [TS]

00:51:59   characters and I thought most of the [TS]

00:52:01   characters in this book were unlikable [TS]

00:52:03   or I did not like them i should say I [TS]

00:52:06   guess get some garden is at least for [TS]

00:52:10   the first half of the book is made to be [TS]

00:52:11   extremely unpleasant [TS]

00:52:13   oh yeah and I in fact as the i will say [TS]

00:52:17   as the book concluded i felt more [TS]

00:52:19   sympathy towards the Varden than any of [TS]

00:52:21   the other characters it's I need a break [TS]

00:52:23   to a certain extent but the problem is [TS]

00:52:26   breakfast seems and I having that [TS]

00:52:28   identity confusion almost makes break a [TS]

00:52:30   blank page right and so there are some [TS]

00:52:34   moments where you get to see that kid [TS]

00:52:38   the character of bread do interesting [TS]

00:52:39   things I thought the scene with the [TS]

00:52:41   bridge [TS]

00:52:42   you know that's sort of the selfless [TS]

00:52:44   moment where she realizes that part is [TS]

00:52:46   going to fall and so jumps off a bridge [TS]

00:52:48   to save some garden and you know [TS]

00:52:51   encouragement great image and it's a [TS]

00:52:53   great realtor results yeah what was it [TS]

00:52:56   that is a moment where I was like all [TS]

00:52:57   right I feel like I'm now getting on [TS]

00:52:59   board with these characters but it does [TS]

00:53:00   get i think that is the challenge of [TS]

00:53:03   writing a character that is supposed to [TS]

00:53:04   be a construct which is to say [TS]

00:53:06   brooke has a personality but not [TS]

00:53:08   necessarily that it's lacking something [TS]

00:53:12   of its humanity and that may be part of [TS]

00:53:14   the point but it is it makes it [TS]

00:53:16   difficult for me to step into the shoes [TS]

00:53:18   and empathize with that character also [TS]

00:53:21   from a plot perspective so much of this [TS]

00:53:23   plot seems to hinge on the coincidental [TS]

00:53:27   meeting of some garden and brick at the [TS]

00:53:29   beginning which and I know they make [TS]

00:53:30   repeated reference to the fact that the [TS]

00:53:32   the wrench i don't see coincidences [TS]

00:53:34   right everything is everything is a [TS]

00:53:36   coincidence is actually the hand of god [TS]

00:53:38   or yeah but it is a he like there's a [TS]

00:53:41   carrot garden has been lost for a [TS]

00:53:43   thousand years and it happens to show up [TS]

00:53:45   on the planet where break is walking and [TS]

00:53:47   like I don't know that I you got to go [TS]

00:53:49   with it because it starts off the book [TS]

00:53:51   and that's basically what a way to get [TS]

00:53:52   things going but it seemed just so [TS]

00:53:53   incredibly implausible to me i didn't [TS]

00:53:55   bother me because I figured that if [TS]

00:53:57   you've been e.t.a I on a ship in this [TS]

00:53:59   Empire for all that time you've met [TS]

00:54:01   thousands and thousands of officers and [TS]

00:54:04   for one of them to end up facedown in a [TS]

00:54:06   ditch 1,000 years out of time [TS]

00:54:10   yeah well I was in here is that seems [TS]

00:54:12   like I mean you know when they're [TS]

00:54:13   talking about people who live like 200 [TS]

00:54:14   years like which is already pretty long [TS]

00:54:16   but you know I don't know it just right [TS]

00:54:18   but you live all that you live all the [TS]

00:54:19   time and you meet what you know hundred [TS]

00:54:21   thousands and thousands of people in [TS]

00:54:22   this Empire and then you run into one I [TS]

00:54:23   don't know it didn't seem entirely [TS]

00:54:25   unlikely to me and it didn't seem like [TS]

00:54:27   her in her plan that doesn't hinge on [TS]

00:54:29   him it just turns out that he is an [TS]

00:54:31   effective tool to further the plan I [TS]

00:54:34   wasn't sure why he needed to be out of [TS]

00:54:36   time either that that seemed odd to me [TS]

00:54:38   that's just it's entertaining at times [TS]

00:54:41   but it didn't seem like there was a [TS]

00:54:42   whole lot of point to it [TS]

00:54:44   well he's disconnected so much like [TS]

00:54:46   breakfast yeah disconnected but they are [TS]

00:54:49   part of this society there are integral [TS]

00:54:51   parts of the society but they're [TS]

00:54:52   disconnected right I feel like it would [TS]

00:54:54   have been interesting if he was one out [TS]

00:54:55   of time or if he was one of our officers [TS]

00:54:57   but combining those two just seemed like [TS]

00:54:59   keeping too much stuff on this one [TS]

00:55:00   character there are many characters but [TS]

00:55:02   Scott Scott's right it's he he is messed [TS]

00:55:07   up his identity is lost because he's [TS]

00:55:09   lost all of the cultural significance as [TS]

00:55:11   long as house you know so that's how [TS]

00:55:13   he's out of time and and when i get that [TS]

00:55:16   completely i guess my point was that [TS]

00:55:18   seem like enough convenient also need to [TS]

00:55:20   be one of her officers not right but [TS]

00:55:23   maybe that's just me [TS]

00:55:24   alright brother there is a lot in this [TS]

00:55:27   book I mean I guess I think I think [TS]

00:55:29   that's true i think that is actually one [TS]

00:55:30   of my problems I I thought that the [TS]

00:55:32   gender thing was really clever and yet [TS]

00:55:34   it did so many layers like Monty said [TS]

00:55:37   you know do you need a 7-layer burrito [TS]

00:55:39   I'm not sure [TS]

00:55:40   that's a lot of lists let's take one [TS]

00:55:42   layer I out of the brain later on all [TS]

00:55:45   right love the layers [TS]

00:55:47   fair enough but it did give me that Ian [TS]

00:55:48   banks vibe i die i like that i also i [TS]

00:55:52   get the feeling and correct me if I'm [TS]

00:55:54   wrong but you know what we're seeing is [TS]

00:55:55   is these aren't these are these cultures [TS]

00:55:58   are alien but they're the people in them [TS]

00:56:00   are humans right there humans yes in the [TS]

00:56:03   future of humans and then they formed [TS]

00:56:05   all these different empires and cultures [TS]

00:56:07   on these different planets and these [TS]

00:56:09   guys happen to be this very militaristic [TS]

00:56:10   awful empire that is taking over all the [TS]

00:56:13   other planets and then they meet the [TS]

00:56:14   actual aliens who decided that they are [TS]

00:56:18   gonna not put up in yeah well to imply [TS]

00:56:20   that there are I thought it was implied [TS]

00:56:22   that there were other aliens that they [TS]

00:56:23   had encountered before that but I guess [TS]

00:56:25   you're right or the are the one the [TS]

00:56:27   super-powerful once they meet they just [TS]

00:56:29   have met their match [TS]

00:56:30   are there more than their magic yeah [TS]

00:56:32   right because they talked about the fact [TS]

00:56:33   that the actual reg is a Dyson Sphere [TS]

00:56:36   somewhere and nothing non-human was [TS]

00:56:38   allowed to enter it and all that stuff [TS]

00:56:40   so and the actual wrench doesn't know [TS]

00:56:42   about the Empire around which was it [TS]

00:56:44   that was wrong way life was really fun [TS]

00:56:46   read the Empire is actually an ancillary [TS]

00:56:48   because the actual it ratchets fear is [TS]

00:56:50   completely insular and you just can't [TS]

00:56:52   even go [TS]

00:56:53   you mustn't be looked at kept pure [TS]

00:56:57   yeah the Empire created the whole empire [TS]

00:56:59   just to protect this is buffers around [TS]

00:57:02   this thing nobody can get into around [TS]

00:57:04   and that's why I like this book so much [TS]

00:57:06   because they're so bad like that's like [TS]

00:57:08   a two-line thing and that's like you [TS]

00:57:10   could write a whole book just about that [TS]

00:57:12   i want to read that book that reminded [TS]

00:57:14   me of foundation actually LOL we brought [TS]

00:57:17   a little sorry but it had to happen we [TS]

00:57:20   started recording but it's it it [TS]

00:57:22   reminded me of a little bit where it's [TS]

00:57:23   this you know out on the far reaches [TS]

00:57:25   there's this little Enclave that's been [TS]

00:57:28   set up and everything that's happening [TS]

00:57:29   around it is just part of you know the [TS]

00:57:31   the side effects of their little game [TS]

00:57:33   that they're playing inside their little [TS]

00:57:34   sphere I thought that what i thought it [TS]

00:57:36   was pretty cool [TS]

00:57:37   yeah I mean there's so much here I [TS]

00:57:39   enjoyed this book a lot i didn't [TS]

00:57:41   consider the best book I read last year [TS]

00:57:42   or anything like that because I think [TS]

00:57:44   again I although i have read to mean [TS]

00:57:46   banks now and i like it might recognize [TS]

00:57:48   the style it's not my very favorite kind [TS]

00:57:50   of book but there is so much here in any [TS]

00:57:52   book that makes me think of you in banks [TS]

00:57:54   makes me think of Ursula Gwyn that's got [TS]

00:57:57   all these different games that it's [TS]

00:57:58   playing I mean what I took out of it [TS]

00:58:01   Scott [TS]

00:58:01   you know I I'm saying that I didn't [TS]

00:58:03   think it was my favorite book of last [TS]

00:58:04   year when i got out it was like oh my [TS]

00:58:06   god this is her first novel is [TS]

00:58:09   requesting it's up it for a first-time [TS]

00:58:11   novelist it kind of blew me away that [TS]

00:58:13   that it is she's not taking it easy this [TS]

00:58:16   is the high degree of difficulty and she [TS]

00:58:18   does a good job he would really does she [TS]

00:58:20   does that if she doesn't win the hugo [TS]

00:58:22   which i think is it may not happen she [TS]

00:58:24   should certainly win what is the [TS]

00:58:25   Campbell for best new novelist right [TS]

00:58:28   because i think this is this is just a [TS]

00:58:30   stunning debut even if you don't think [TS]

00:58:32   it's the best book you've read this year [TS]

00:58:33   for first-time novelist write something [TS]

00:58:35   like this is pretty great [TS]

00:58:36   yeah i agree I agree it's definitely [TS]

00:58:39   worth reading I thought both of these [TS]

00:58:40   books were we're totally worth reading [TS]

00:58:42   alright let's take a break for our [TS]

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00:59:12   and simple it all to me making an appt [TS]

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01:00:16   the incomparable i would like to briefly [TS]

01:00:19   complain about the ending [TS]

01:00:20   ok yes oh yes yes you were talking about [TS]

01:00:23   about the princess bride ending earlier [TS]

01:00:25   and this this too has an ending that [TS]

01:00:26   sort of like say everybody characters [TS]

01:00:30   who remained alive [TS]

01:00:31   let's team up and explore the universe [TS]

01:00:33   together like I don't like having a plot [TS]

01:00:37   that hinges on a character like I like a [TS]

01:00:40   plot where a character is bent on [TS]

01:00:42   vengeance and is straight striding [TS]

01:00:44   straightforward with steely [TS]

01:00:46   determination to all sorts of obstacles [TS]

01:00:49   great and then when our protagonist gets [TS]

01:00:52   to wear our protagonist was going yeah [TS]

01:00:55   gives up what the hell let's go do [TS]

01:00:57   something else like I felt like the end [TS]

01:01:00   of the book I'd stepped off a cliff put [TS]

01:01:03   a pin in it where they say I actually [TS]

01:01:05   we're gonna put you in terms of a ship [TS]

01:01:07   come back later for the sequel [TS]

01:01:09   never mind about the whole reason you [TS]

01:01:11   were reading the book [TS]

01:01:12   well maybe it's trying to do they try to [TS]

01:01:14   explain it away well you did take out [TS]

01:01:16   some of the Emperor's and that's really [TS]

01:01:19   shoot and Emperor like one out of two [TS]

01:01:21   thousand bodies or whatever i don't and [TS]

01:01:24   and now you're on a call with lap you [TS]

01:01:25   know but there's a new mission to do [TS]

01:01:27   this other thing that could also be [TS]

01:01:29   interesting and and you know you don't [TS]

01:01:31   really have much choice on the matter [TS]

01:01:33   I it's there and it's engineered and [TS]

01:01:35   that was the part that made me laugh is [TS]

01:01:37   that I get why why she does that at the [TS]

01:01:39   end but at the same time it's sort of [TS]

01:01:41   like congratulations you're now the [TS]

01:01:43   captain of the starship enterprise and [TS]

01:01:45   you're annoying sidekick he can be your [TS]

01:01:48   first officer don't have adventures kids [TS]

01:01:50   like this doesn't really fit with how I [TS]

01:01:53   expected everybody to sort of end up you [TS]

01:01:55   know shot to death at the end yeah [TS]

01:01:57   wouldn't be good way to start a series [TS]

01:02:00   that would be what he and banks would do [TS]

01:02:01   those Scott it is what even banks would [TS]

01:02:03   do but his serious generally don't have [TS]

01:02:05   the same characters i like a resolution [TS]

01:02:07   and this book felt seems like it just [TS]

01:02:11   refused to give it to know at the end it [TS]

01:02:13   seems like it [TS]

01:02:13   the pilot of of serious right yeah like [TS]

01:02:16   and that's how they became the captain [TS]

01:02:18   and first officer of a starship there's [TS]

01:02:20   gonna be more of these called you know [TS]

01:02:21   ancillary revenge and ancillary love [TS]

01:02:24   actually believe the next one is called [TS]

01:02:26   ancillary mercy haha I mercy not making [TS]

01:02:30   that up that's what it's that's that to [TS]

01:02:31   believe that if you look at wikipedia [TS]

01:02:32   page and so every sword ancillary mercy [TS]

01:02:35   and I believe that an ancillary love [TS]

01:02:36   will be the next one much but so what [TS]

01:02:39   was weird for me when reading this was i [TS]

01:02:40   I was finishing it up and i was reading [TS]

01:02:43   my kindle you get that little progress [TS]

01:02:44   bar at the bottom and i thought i had a [TS]

01:02:46   whole chapter left and it turned out [TS]

01:02:48   that's just all the crap that they put [TS]

01:02:49   at the end like an interview with the [TS]

01:02:50   offer and other stuff and I was so I got [TS]

01:02:52   to that chapter with her like all right [TS]

01:02:53   going onto the ship and like all right [TS]

01:02:54   so I got one more chapter know that was [TS]

01:02:56   the end of the book that's a better dad [TS]

01:02:59   then all is all that crap for book clubs [TS]

01:03:01   at the end who does book i skipped all [TS]

01:03:03   that bunch of jerks that too [TS]

01:03:05   that's I don't need that no I mean I i [TS]

01:03:08   don't want to sound like i was too down [TS]

01:03:09   on this book i did enjoy it wasn't--oh [TS]

01:03:11   yeah I i agree with Jason I I was not my [TS]

01:03:13   favorite book I read last year but that [TS]

01:03:15   I think is more function of just the [TS]

01:03:17   pipes types of books that I really like [TS]

01:03:19   and this is a book that i liked but I [TS]

01:03:21   didn't love i'm a check out the sequel's [TS]

01:03:24   we'll see what you know what the buzz on [TS]

01:03:26   those when they come out but I there's a [TS]

01:03:28   lot of motti I think it's totally hit [TS]

01:03:29   the nail on the head there's so many [TS]

01:03:32   ideas I was interesting them but I feel [TS]

01:03:34   like it would have benefited a little [TS]

01:03:35   more from just a little more focus [TS]

01:03:37   yeah i certainly liked the book i just [TS]

01:03:39   didn't fall head-over-heels in love with [TS]

01:03:41   it [TS]

01:03:41   yeah yeah I liked a lot i well i will [TS]

01:03:45   read the the sequel I i was impressed [TS]

01:03:47   and I I did love the love the richness [TS]

01:03:50   of it but I did feel like it was a [TS]

01:03:52   little too much stuff in the in the in [TS]

01:03:54   the pot or too many layers memory know [TS]

01:03:57   if we go back to the taco bell metaphor [TS]

01:03:58   which I'm not married too many burritos [TS]

01:04:00   in the pot what a burrito in every pot I [TS]

01:04:03   say put more burritos in that pot more [TS]

01:04:06   layers and burritos in the pot as you're [TS]

01:04:08   a communist cat we didn't even talk [TS]

01:04:10   about the fact that this is the this a [TS]

01:04:12   is famous for singing songs and there's [TS]

01:04:14   that that whole thing which is this [TS]

01:04:16   weird like is it a person is it not [TS]

01:04:19   it's got its got these strange quirks [TS]

01:04:22   yeah they never really explained whether [TS]

01:04:24   the AI [TS]

01:04:27   is an AI or has an independent can act [TS]

01:04:32   independently or not really but I felt [TS]

01:04:33   like that was on purpose so I didn't [TS]

01:04:35   well and I didn't like the fact that it [TS]

01:04:36   really came down to the fact that every [TS]

01:04:38   they talked about the fact that all the [TS]

01:04:40   ships have their favorites [TS]

01:04:42   you know and also the people like at the [TS]

01:04:44   end of the day those in salaries there's [TS]

01:04:46   still something person like about them [TS]

01:04:49   that it came down to the fact that that [TS]

01:04:52   killing who we haven't really talked [TS]

01:04:54   about that story thread that much but [TS]

01:04:55   the the whole sort of flashback story [TS]

01:04:57   thread where we see the Emperor order [TS]

01:05:00   eventually the death of this lieutenant [TS]

01:05:02   who is you know beloved 200 extent which [TS]

01:05:07   others who paraded who prevented a [TS]

01:05:08   massacre right and that's essentially [TS]

01:05:10   what sets this whole thing in motion is [TS]

01:05:12   because she can't she can't stand that [TS]

01:05:15   justice of Toren can't stand that shoots [TS]

01:05:17   the Emperor and the upper destroys the [TS]

01:05:19   ship and to me that was the cool part [TS]

01:05:21   for me because I again I felt the most [TS]

01:05:23   empathy with that character that point [TS]

01:05:25   who you know felt that they had to do [TS]

01:05:27   what they were ordered because they are [TS]

01:05:29   in AI but also you know had this whole [TS]

01:05:31   freewill action of like all right and [TS]

01:05:33   now I'm gonna kill you because you made [TS]

01:05:34   me do something really bad and i'm going [TS]

01:05:37   to send and then that's a really [TS]

01:05:38   exciting scene where sense the this one [TS]

01:05:41   ancillary into the escape pod basically [TS]

01:05:43   to go off and yeah and you're like oh no [TS]

01:05:46   that's how that's how this happened [TS]

01:05:48   that's how I know I took me a minute to [TS]

01:05:50   put those those pieces together but when [TS]

01:05:52   you realize that I think that is a great [TS]

01:05:54   as a great moment of Noah so that's how [TS]

01:05:57   we get back i think it would be funny if [TS]

01:05:59   in a later book we discover that the [TS]

01:06:03   Emperor's two halves are split exactly [TS]

01:06:06   along male and female lines [TS]

01:06:09   ah but nobody can tell right haha how we [TS]

01:06:12   how we know you good one of the bad one [TS]

01:06:15   there's no way to tell make sure to have [TS]

01:06:17   your Emperor spayed and neutered [TS]

01:06:18   something that I think the damage that i [TS]

01:06:20   want to bring up again is that one thing [TS]

01:06:21   that I did bother me like i said earlier [TS]

01:06:23   i like the fact that we don't just see [TS]

01:06:25   this kind of cool setup we do get the [TS]

01:06:27   background where we really where we [TS]

01:06:29   settle witnessed the horrors of this [TS]

01:06:32   Empire at close range that how these [TS]

01:06:35   corpse soldiers bodies come to be [TS]

01:06:37   available [TS]

01:06:39   and what they do when they take over [TS]

01:06:40   these planets one thing that I felt that [TS]

01:06:43   this book did shy away from and i [TS]

01:06:46   thought was unfortunate maybe she'll [TS]

01:06:48   deal with it in the later installment [TS]

01:06:50   but I never I never felt that this book [TS]

01:06:53   dealt with who the who the person who [TS]

01:06:55   the body was before it was taken over by [TS]

01:06:59   the justice of Toren and I i'm sorry i [TS]

01:07:01   don't believe that uh a person and and [TS]

01:07:07   their body and their brain is going to [TS]

01:07:09   be completely vacant with whatever [TS]

01:07:11   science-fictional process puts an AI in [TS]

01:07:13   it and if they have favorites and if [TS]

01:07:15   these bodies all have sort of things [TS]

01:07:17   that are quirky about them you know [TS]

01:07:19   that's really because it was a human [TS]

01:07:21   being before and that human being is [TS]

01:07:23   probably still there in some way and to [TS]

01:07:26   not deal with that at all which I felt [TS]

01:07:27   like this book really didn't think it's [TS]

01:07:29   too bad because we are ultimately this [TS]

01:07:31   is going person is going back to being a [TS]

01:07:33   person i was a little disappointed i [TS]

01:07:34   don't necessarily need like a flashback [TS]

01:07:36   where she suddenly has memories that she [TS]

01:07:38   didn't know we're there that's of her [TS]

01:07:39   childhood and all that I don't you know [TS]

01:07:41   that that that would be kind of hokey [TS]

01:07:43   but I just that I felt it kind of [TS]

01:07:46   advocated responsibility for that we are [TS]

01:07:48   our hero who were following here was [TS]

01:07:50   somebody who died and we don't know who [TS]

01:07:53   they were and we don't get any real [TS]

01:07:55   sense other than that well you know this [TS]

01:07:57   is the body that happened to survive [TS]

01:07:59   there's a passing reference the doctor [TS]

01:08:01   offers to put the old personality back [TS]

01:08:04   in charge and breakfast says oh so you [TS]

01:08:06   want a personality you approve of [TS]

01:08:07   instead of me [TS]

01:08:08   yeah they're going to shrugs and get on [TS]

01:08:10   with their lives but yeah that's not [TS]

01:08:12   good enough [TS]

01:08:13   alright i before we go I want to do a [TS]

01:08:15   really quick round of what are we [TS]

01:08:17   reading books that we read lately that [TS]

01:08:18   we would like to talk about and [TS]

01:08:20   recommend or condemned as the case maybe [TS]

01:08:21   if you want to be a very negative person [TS]

01:08:24   Scott what about you what it what are [TS]

01:08:26   you reading what am I really currently [TS]

01:08:28   i'm reading what is called the Gini and [TS]

01:08:31   the golem [TS]

01:08:33   I am NOT I'm about a third of the way [TS]

01:08:35   through and it's very good [TS]

01:08:37   it's about a genie and go from everybody [TS]

01:08:40   oh I don't spoil predictable in uh I [TS]

01:08:45   think early nineteen hundreds of new [TS]

01:08:47   york city so really really i've heard [TS]

01:08:51   many good things about that book and [TS]

01:08:53   it's called the golden the genie I think [TS]

01:08:54   it's which I don't know you have [TS]

01:08:55   whatever time nothing about that but [TS]

01:08:59   it's really good so far I haven't [TS]

01:09:00   finished it could you know get really [TS]

01:09:03   crappy i also read a nonfiction book [TS]

01:09:06   called empty mansions which is getting a [TS]

01:09:09   lot of press and it was fantastic so if [TS]

01:09:12   you want some nonfiction check that all [TS]

01:09:14   right Dan what about you what are you [TS]

01:09:16   reading [TS]

01:09:16   well i just read this book you might [TS]

01:09:18   hurt called ancillary just tell us all [TS]

01:09:20   about it i did just finish that today so [TS]

01:09:24   i picked up a new book yet the most [TS]

01:09:27   recent book i read before that was the [TS]

01:09:29   third book in the peter grant series the [TS]

01:09:32   rivers of London series huh whispers [TS]

01:09:34   underground which I which I liked [TS]

01:09:37   I've enjoyed that series been around [TS]

01:09:39   events I i just bought the second one of [TS]

01:09:41   those yeah I've like them a bit I and I [TS]

01:09:45   think they improve as they go along i'm [TS]

01:09:47   looking for i think the fourth one comes [TS]

01:09:48   out in a month or so and i'm about to [TS]

01:09:52   pick up i don't have it in front of me [TS]

01:09:54   but I one of the books i got for [TS]

01:09:55   christmas which is a nonfiction book [TS]

01:09:57   about TE Lawrence that I really am [TS]

01:09:59   interested in reading so that's the next [TS]

01:10:02   thing on my my to-do list all right [TS]

01:10:05   Monty what about you what are you [TS]

01:10:06   reading [TS]

01:10:07   well I just finished reading a book [TS]

01:10:08   called ultimate porno with the making of [TS]

01:10:10   a sex colossal what I go on connexion [TS]

01:10:16   very high browse it's nonfiction it's by [TS]

01:10:19   the assistant director of Caligula and [TS]

01:10:22   it's about how that movie got made and [TS]

01:10:24   it is fascinating huh wow it will not [TS]

01:10:29   surprise you to learn that the making of [TS]

01:10:31   that movie was ridiculous [TS]

01:10:32   that's who woulda thought not like Ron [TS]

01:10:35   every level and I've also just started [TS]

01:10:40   reading the film noir reader which is a [TS]

01:10:42   collection of [TS]

01:10:43   essays on fillmore alright like the [TS]

01:10:47   essay that defined film noir in 1955 i [TS]

01:10:51   think i really hope the title of this [TS]

01:10:55   episode is ultimate porno the making of [TS]

01:10:57   a sex colossal it's probably not but the [TS]

01:11:00   country and you think you know what [TS]

01:11:03   Caligula involved you do not just the [TS]

01:11:08   casting process for all the people in [TS]

01:11:11   the background you think you can only [TS]

01:11:13   imagine you can't even imagine Jason [TS]

01:11:16   what are you reading my thanks for [TS]

01:11:18   asking Scott I I've been reading right [TS]

01:11:20   now I'm reading crux by run as nom which [TS]

01:11:23   is the sequel to Nexus which I read last [TS]

01:11:25   year I good so far nexus a really good [TS]

01:11:30   book about in the near future and people [TS]

01:11:34   yeah put this drug in their body called [TS]

01:11:37   nexus that basically networks their [TS]

01:11:39   brain and put some operating system in [TS]

01:11:41   the brain they can connect to other [TS]

01:11:43   people and it's sort of the beginning of [TS]

01:11:45   possibly creating a hive mind but [TS]

01:11:46   governments are afraid of it are trying [TS]

01:11:49   to destroy it and there may be an [TS]

01:11:50   artificial intelligence or at least an [TS]

01:11:52   Augmented formerly human intelligence [TS]

01:11:54   that's now taking over computers and [TS]

01:11:56   Robyn's mom is a use for Microsoft he [TS]

01:11:59   writes nonfiction he also writes fiction [TS]

01:12:01   now and he is a a smart guy and there's [TS]

01:12:06   some really interesting attack [TS]

01:12:07   extrapolation stuff in it so I'm really [TS]

01:12:09   enjoying crux i finished over the [TS]

01:12:13   holiday break i read love minus eighty [TS]

01:12:15   by will mcintosh which is based on his [TS]

01:12:19   Hugo nominated short story called bride [TS]

01:12:21   sickles which is about in the future [TS]

01:12:25   they they cure death but most people who [TS]

01:12:28   are horribly who are dying a horrible [TS]

01:12:31   accident they can cure death but they [TS]

01:12:34   have to also fix all the things that are [TS]

01:12:35   wrong with them and somebody apparently [TS]

01:12:37   has a brilliant idea that particularly [TS]

01:12:39   attractive dead people could be brought [TS]

01:12:42   back to life by rich men to marry them [TS]

01:12:46   which is super as creepy it's creepier [TS]

01:12:49   than it sounds in fact is that creepy [TS]

01:12:51   and this book this book is expands on [TS]

01:12:54   that and there's a there's a guy hits [TS]

01:12:57   guy boy meets girl boy gets girl with [TS]

01:12:59   his car girl dies boy feels really [TS]

01:13:02   guilty boy goes and visits her corpse in [TS]

01:13:05   the corpsicle pod but doesn't have [TS]

01:13:07   enough money to actually bring her back [TS]

01:13:08   to life and it goes from there I friend [TS]

01:13:12   of the of the podcast Tom Green [TS]

01:13:13   recommended to me as his favorite book [TS]

01:13:15   of 2013 [TS]

01:13:16   it was I would say it was fine i didn't [TS]

01:13:19   I i enjoyed it [TS]

01:13:21   I i would say it's like The Love [TS]

01:13:22   Actually of sci-fi novels it's more of a [TS]

01:13:25   sci-fi romantic comedy [TS]

01:13:28   uh we're like I said girl is hit by car [TS]

01:13:31   and yet all the characters are defined [TS]

01:13:33   by their romantic relationships or lack [TS]

01:13:35   of same it's all about love triangles [TS]

01:13:38   and who's dating who even though it's [TS]

01:13:40   set in this weird near future world [TS]

01:13:43   where they've you know there's a vast [TS]

01:13:46   difference between the rich and the poor [TS]

01:13:47   and some people have sort of led into [TS]

01:13:49   the countryside and all that and yet in [TS]

01:13:51   the middle of it it's just a big warm [TS]

01:13:53   romantic comedy strange [TS]

01:13:55   not bad just very strange and I I i was [TS]

01:13:59   reading it expecting something else was [TS]

01:14:00   like okay this is love actually got it [TS]

01:14:02   got it [TS]

01:14:03   it's right there in the title of minus [TS]

01:14:06   eighty and then the other novel i read [TS]

01:14:08   over the break with shadow ops control [TS]

01:14:10   point by my coal which dan recommended [TS]

01:14:12   to me and you know I like to be a [TS]

01:14:14   positive person on this podcast so what [TS]

01:14:15   I'll say is I thought it was kind of a [TS]

01:14:17   disaster and um iphone kind of and i [TS]

01:14:21   don't i don't recommend it to anybody [TS]

01:14:23   but and i feel kind of bad to say this [TS]

01:14:26   because I know Dan liked it and that by [TS]

01:14:28   Cole seems to be a very nice guy on the [TS]

01:14:30   internet but it is a gigantic mess with [TS]

01:14:34   lots of characters who are incredibly [TS]

01:14:36   stupid doing things that make no sense [TS]

01:14:38   in order to have a plot that isn't that [TS]

01:14:41   great [TS]

01:14:41   so don't don't read it sorry Dan I'll i [TS]

01:14:46   won't say anything because he is a [TS]

01:14:47   friend haha I i read that book i read [TS]

01:14:51   this i read the sequel as well I believe [TS]

01:14:52   Scott Scott read it as well I think I [TS]

01:14:54   think we both felt more positive about [TS]

01:14:56   it than you did I guess it's true [TS]

01:14:58   so I'd like to thank my guests for [TS]

01:15:00   reading the books and coming here to [TS]

01:15:02   talk about them [TS]

01:15:03   the only only three could do it only [TS]

01:15:05   three were up to the challenge they have [TS]

01:15:07   the superheroes of the incomparable book [TS]

01:15:09   club and they are [TS]

01:15:10   Scott McNulty thank you for being here [TS]

01:15:12   Jason you're my favorite ancillary oh [TS]

01:15:14   thank thank you [TS]

01:15:15   I'm did you did you murder me before [TS]

01:15:18   making me an ancillary that's the [TS]

01:15:19   question [TS]

01:15:20   well we'd let's let dwell on the team [TS]

01:15:22   that's fair enough let's just enjoy the [TS]

01:15:24   relationship right now she's my favorite [TS]

01:15:26   male female I don't know she's my [TS]

01:15:30   favorite whenever you people with your [TS]

01:15:32   humans and your gender doesn't blah blah [TS]

01:15:34   blah [TS]

01:15:35   Monty Ashley thank you very much for [TS]

01:15:37   being here thank you i enjoy reading [TS]

01:15:39   books ah books are nice and clean about [TS]

01:15:42   them [TS]

01:15:42   yes that that's also nice and dan moore [TS]

01:15:46   and I could say you're my favorite [TS]

01:15:47   actually but i might be lying you might [TS]

01:15:48   you might be false facing you with [TS]

01:15:51   reference to both books dancing thank [TS]

01:15:53   you much [TS]

01:15:53   the knives of dead more everybody and [TS]

01:15:58   thanks everybody out there for listening [TS]

01:15:59   to the uncomfortable and reading books [TS]

01:16:01   the people who write books thank you for [TS]

01:16:04   reading books combined [TS]