337b: ...But Too Much
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the Intolerable episode 338 7777 buddy
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this is a bonus edition of the
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incomparable I like to have our episodes
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not be two and a half hours long and
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sometimes that means i cut things out of
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episodes because you know me
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you've got time that you want to spend
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on other things and two-and-a-half hour
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long podcast is too long i think in most
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cases but you know I don't want to judge
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some people love as much as they can get
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of anything we talked about and in this
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case we talk about black mirror that was
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what happened episode 337 and this is a
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sub episode to that because basically we
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talked for so long about every single
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black mirror episode that it wasn't
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gonna fit so instead what we did myself
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John siracusa David lure brian hamilton
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our conversation about black mirror the
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eight episodes that we didn't like as
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much as the five that we loved is going
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to be put in this appendix episode so if
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you want to hear us talk about more
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episodes of black mirror here it is
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I will warn you if we haven't talked
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about your favorite episode yet in the
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main show it means we didn't like it as
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much as the other five so be prepared if
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you're a big fan of white bear you're
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going to be disappointed with what we
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think of it but hey it's fun
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everybody gets to have their own opinion
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thank you for listening to be
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uncomfortable and enjoy the rest of
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black mirror the national anthem was
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episode 1 of series 1 a black mirror
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this famously is the episode that
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involves basically tech a day an
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anarchist blackmails the there
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the Prime Minister of England into
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having sex with a pig on us on live TV
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or he'll kill a princess and this got
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the news when it was reported last year
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that the prime minister of bread
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David Cameron was a in a secret society
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in college that apparently had an
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initiation ritual slightly related to
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the plot of this purpose would but the
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idea here is that you know using using
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modern media techniques they escalate
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the pressure on the prime minister to do
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a egg to commit an unspeakable act in
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public and and shame himself and there's
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this question of like what can they do
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and will you will you give in to the
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demands of this terrorist or anarchist
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or will you not what people think very
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grimy episode made me feel gross
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watching it I if it was so sort of such
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a grim view of everything involved it
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just set the tone for the series and
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submit one of the things that maybe not
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come back to her for a long time was
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like yeah I see what they're doing there
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that's fine like this theme for me for a
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lot of black mirror is I feel like
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everybody's seen it before or already
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know what they're gonna tell me and have
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learned this lesson and don't need to
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learn it again and it's not you know you
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mentioned in this lack earlier the like
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maybe you've seen too much sci-fi now I
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think it's like most adults who are even
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remotely enter the sort of you know this
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kind of genre fiction have seen these
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things before and the national anthem
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was like you've seen this before
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we'll make it a little bit more grimy
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and gross and and have it be ripped from
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the headlines and I was just not
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interested right
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didn't watch it have too many problems
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with the premises ok David yeah I'm
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pretty much with john i saw it years and
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years ago and kinda went yeah okay you
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want to be read certainly but you need
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to be a better writer and then the whole
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David Cameron thinking about you go
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mmm he knows something but it's you know
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I've enjoyed charlie brooker before this
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has a comedian and a panel show host on
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BBC radio and he goes to an acid black
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show called so wrong it's right which is
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about horrible horrible stories so it
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made sense when it was like oh this is
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charlie brooker writing fiction but
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then-then isn't fiction
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yeah it's not as much friction as we
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thought I didn't I think this one is
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fine myself I i literally I have it in
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the eye I put them all in order and this
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is literally in the middle it is it
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isn't number 713 on my list and I have
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it as I i divided my black mirror
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episodes into three camps which is I
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I I appreciate it but I have some real
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problems with it and I hate it and this
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is this leads the i appreciated but I
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have some real problems that it's dark
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there parts of that I don't like but
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what I did like about it is that it
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takes its premise and and this is true
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for a lot of black mare episodes it
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takes its premise and it explores it
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I feel like it explores the
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ramifications of what this is to an
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extreme like every little bit of it and
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i actually like the way this one ends
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because it ends darkly but also with a
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an optimism about the public that it
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turns out is not present in almost any
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other episode where Prime Minister goes
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through with this the the princess is
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released and we view you know down the
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road a little bit there's a flat they're
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sort of a time gap and that he is a he
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still prime minister and he's still
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popular but his wife despises him
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basically so that's that's a little dark
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twist but i thought wow they didn't you
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know show him like as a as a
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a drunk in an alleyway drinking out of a
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bottle and a paper bag like thick that
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it could have been darker and it turns
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out every other episode is pretty much
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darker than than that but but i did i
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did like that and and and what it says
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about like the political calculations
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and and being in public and and if
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somebody makes an outrageous demand your
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you're a public figure I just I mean
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that basic premise of what if this
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happened what would what would the
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result be and it moves through every
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step along the way I like that about it
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but it's not someone that I think I
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would want to revisit ever
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it's okay Brian you don't need to watch
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that 1i have so many opinions about that
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i'm not going to say anything because I
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have not watched it all right subtree I
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I just I don't know get outdated get uh
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yeah us in him so let's move on to the
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second episode of the first series which
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was called 15 million merits this is an
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episode about people this this is like
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the far future dystopia episode in a way
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which is there are people and all they
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do all day is like right exercise bikes
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in order to generate power and they get
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they get you know electronic currency
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that they can use to buy things and the
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only way out of this you know bicycling
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job of theirs is to become a contestant
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on a reality talent show
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so you know it's kind of a broad premise
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and we meet a we meet a nice young man
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named being who who is a who overhears a
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woman singing and thinks that she could
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try out for the reality singing show and
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cleanser his or gives her his his
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credits that he inherited and she wins
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on the show in a terrible way where they
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decide that they don't want her to be a
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singer they wanted to be a porn star and
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it's either that or back to the bicycle
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and so she accepts and then he is sort
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of destroyed by watching this happen
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saves up to be on the talent show
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himself decides to tell them all off
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threatens to kill himself
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and of course in the in the dark twist
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they appreciate his threatening to get
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killed himself while ranting about how
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unfair the world is and hire him to do
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that same thing every week on television
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that's a 15 million merits Brian would
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you think about this one
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you know honestly despite all the fat
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phobia ableism and terrible treatment of
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women i still have this episode you know
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the fact that the fat phobia is part of
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the satire though i would argue in this
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one I think that that is I think that I
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that's how I read that one is that that
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is that is not we're not supposed to be
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laughing at that that is part of the
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horrible world that they live in that
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there's like initially awful character
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that's in there yeah i agree but at the
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same time the fact that they're putting
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all the stuff into the show and the fact
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that it ends with this weird commentary
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about you know consumerism and the whole
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suicide thing what bothers me the most
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is that I don't think that was worth all
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the other terrible stuff that happened
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to me episode that ending and that
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character was not worth us having to
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watch the terrible things happen
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well David step back and look at any of
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it oh I i I've got like eight windows
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open here because i'm running a podcast
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I don't have time to chat sorry I'm back
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I'm back every no idea what you've said
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all right three minutes John so this
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this episode I had some hope for the
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show after like all going to come back
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to the show up the first terrible
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episode and like all right there's some
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interesting premise here I thought a
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little bit looked a little bit low
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budget like with the exercise bikes and
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little room there in heaven they had
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some interesting ideas but the problem
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was is it was like let's put a bunch of
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humans few of which have like our
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current modern-day sensibilities in an
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absurdly awful situation that is
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unexplained and that they're that every
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every human in this people on the bikes
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the people sweeping up behind them the
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judges are on the the reality show the
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audience on the reality show the stars
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holiday show every single one of those
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people isn't in a miserable situation
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for unexplained reasons and I they move
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from one miserable situation for
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unexplained reasons to another measure
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and all the medical situations like oh
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you have to open your eyes and watch ads
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oh you the only way out of this grind of
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exercise bike is going to reality show
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oh you are a terrible person in the
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audience laughing at people and being
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cruel all your star of the show and
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you're you're alone and you have your
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glass shard in a little case and
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everything every one of those people
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why are they miserable who is making
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them miserable is this a misery of their
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own created like me there is no
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explanation in their miserable in
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different ways and it's like so the
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lesson is you're always going to be
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miserable in that no matter what because
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the writers are going to make every
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single facet of this new reality
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miserable for reasons that you won't
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explain it was just the whole show felt
00:11:12
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miserable despite the fact that I think
00:11:13
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they had concentrated on one or two
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aspects of it that you could you can
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have a dystopia but I want there to be
00:11:19
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some reason that SOB came to be other is
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just that they felt like they were all
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hemmed in by the writer so and then have
00:11:27
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the greatest one big thumbs down
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David yeah i'm i'm right there with you
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it's it was you you need something and
00:11:38
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and I hate watching things where it's
00:11:39
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literally the writers did this because
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the writers wanted to do it i have that
00:11:44
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problem with Sherlock two things happen
00:11:46
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because Moffitt and marketers want them
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to happen and this was very much the
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same way it's it's interesting to look
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at their there are a lot of interesting
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ideas but there's just no there's no
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hook to it there's no point so I this is
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this one is in my top half and toward
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the bottom but it's in my top half
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I i like the little opinions I I yeah I
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like it for what it is which is I think
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that the world they yet why is that just
00:12:15
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hope you you know again the matrix
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powering using people as batteries also
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doesn't make any sense i'm going to let
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it i'm going to make sense that
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machine's want to kill humans and make
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sense there is a subjugated and as
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subjugate or but in this episode's just
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why are there coupons but why are there
00:12:31
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people on exercise bikes at it because
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it's a method of control or something
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like that but who's controlling them but
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mr. but purely as purely again purely as
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a as a metaphor i enjoyed the I the
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mechanics of earning the merits and of
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being trying to be generous
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I appreciate the fact that any belief we
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have that this that the work this world
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could be even remotely good or fair is
00:13:00
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ripped away with what happens to a be in
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when she appears onstage I love as a max
00:13:08
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►
headroom fan from way back i love the
00:13:10
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the detail that you can not only can you
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not turn off the TV but you must watch
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it and it will if you close your eyes it
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knows and it will let you until you open
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your eyes and look at what it's showing
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you which on max headroom make it
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through like a blanket over the TV they
00:13:27
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always were on but you could cover them
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and in this they know everything about
00:13:30
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you i thought that was a really nice bit
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that will that will come to stick with
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►
me and you know as ridiculous as it is
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where he threatens to kill himself and
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they and they applauded him and say you
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can do that every week it and it is
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like I said was toward the bottom of my
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◼
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of my top app but I i did like the the
00:13:54
◼
►
weird bittersweetness of him basically
00:13:57
◼
►
living in a penthouse being able to look
00:14:00
◼
►
at big windows into the outside world
00:14:01
◼
►
and drink fresh orange juice as an
00:14:05
◼
►
example of just how bizarre and an
00:14:08
◼
►
unfair this whole society is and more
00:14:10
◼
►
importantly that his rebellion his act
00:14:13
◼
►
of rebellion is is completely co-opted
00:14:15
◼
►
and I I kind of enjoy opted by who
00:14:18
◼
►
nobody will ever see by the system
00:14:20
◼
►
manual about the system yet can't
00:14:22
◼
►
there's there's not even a hint of the
00:14:24
◼
►
system install yy-you sorry it makes me
00:14:27
◼
►
angry because like that is but I don't
00:14:29
◼
►
think our that new but there's a lot of
00:14:31
◼
►
them in there you can make a good show
00:14:32
◼
►
about the have you have to watch ads
00:14:34
◼
►
right you could even make a good show
00:14:36
◼
►
about the reality show and about you can
00:14:38
◼
►
make a good show about the futility of
00:14:39
◼
►
rebellion but surrounding them you need
00:14:42
◼
►
you need a system and some antagonists
00:14:45
◼
►
and a power structure there's no power
00:14:47
◼
►
structure the power structure is writers
00:14:49
◼
►
everybody in the show at the back yeah
00:14:53
◼
►
yeah I mean there's no big brother
00:14:54
◼
►
there's no zig zag corporation there's
00:14:56
◼
►
there's just nothing opposing all of it
00:14:59
◼
►
it's just happening
00:15:00
◼
►
Charlie Brooker is the ruler of the
00:15:03
◼
►
society let's move on to number three
00:15:05
◼
►
how about that the entire history of you
00:15:08
◼
►
1i have one more thing to say about this
00:15:10
◼
►
episode of Brian go for it
00:15:12
◼
►
contrary to all of that I believe that
00:15:16
◼
►
getting rid of any sort of Big Brother
00:15:18
◼
►
any overarching thing was the most
00:15:20
◼
►
interesting part of this episode to me
00:15:22
◼
►
as much as I hated the episode for all
00:15:23
◼
►
the other reasons including suicide
00:15:25
◼
►
which i completely forgot about earlier
00:15:26
◼
►
i really enjoyed the fact that it was up
00:15:28
◼
►
to me as the audience to populate
00:15:31
◼
►
everything else was happening above the
00:15:33
◼
►
people on the bikes and honestly I
00:15:34
◼
►
thought that they were living
00:15:36
◼
►
underground of our society today and
00:15:39
◼
►
that they were the ones powering some
00:15:41
◼
►
aspect of our society with their bikes
00:15:43
◼
►
which I thought was really interesting
00:15:44
◼
►
and if that's not the show at all that's
00:15:46
◼
►
just something that came to my mind as I
00:15:48
◼
►
was watching trying to make sense of all
00:15:49
◼
►
this which is again later that should
00:15:51
◼
►
not be put on me the audience but I
00:15:53
◼
►
still thought it was interesting that of
00:15:55
◼
►
all the things they chose to show and
00:15:56
◼
►
subject us to that was the one thing
00:15:58
◼
►
they got rid of but when your head Canon
00:16:01
◼
►
is more interesting than the thing
00:16:02
◼
►
you're watching that's a problem with
00:16:04
◼
►
the thing you're watching
00:16:05
◼
►
I don't entirely agree with that just
00:16:07
◼
►
because I don't think it always matters
00:16:08
◼
►
not everything has to flesh out the
00:16:10
◼
►
entire world above it I was ok with in I
00:16:12
◼
►
mean I i get that for some people to it
00:16:15
◼
►
has to be that way but it didn't bother
00:16:16
◼
►
me but it was just too much like i was
00:16:19
◼
►
saying like I i if we'd only seen the
00:16:21
◼
►
people on the bicycle or only senior it
00:16:23
◼
►
like it but they showed us every aspect
00:16:25
◼
►
of everything but there is no unseen
00:16:27
◼
►
part as far as where they showed up so
00:16:28
◼
►
much of the world that that's why i end
00:16:30
◼
►
up with like the big flat world where
00:16:31
◼
►
birds mr. Bowlen just the writers of the
00:16:33
◼
►
top pulling the strings whereas if they
00:16:35
◼
►
had showed less then you then you all
00:16:37
◼
►
you have left is headcanon I'm fine with
00:16:39
◼
►
that like when they're intentionally
00:16:40
◼
►
withholding and it's like we're just
00:16:42
◼
►
going to show you this aspect and you're
00:16:43
◼
►
not going to know what the Bob I just
00:16:45
◼
►
feel like they showed us too much right
00:16:46
◼
►
we don't need to know Big Brother we
00:16:48
◼
►
don't need any detailed big brother but
00:16:50
◼
►
we need to know that there is one
00:16:51
◼
►
yeah I suppose that's true but you mean
00:16:53
◼
►
the judges of the reality show don't run
00:16:54
◼
►
the let me my out because they're
00:16:56
◼
►
they're clearly this is horrible days
00:16:58
◼
►
they are you
00:16:58
◼
►
rebellion idea they are also miserable
00:17:01
◼
►
which is a kind of a nice touch i
00:17:02
◼
►
enjoyed that
00:17:03
◼
►
alright the entire history of you is an
00:17:05
◼
►
episode in which people's everything
00:17:07
◼
►
people see is recorded and accessible so
00:17:09
◼
►
you have perfect memory and it can be
00:17:11
◼
►
played back to other people and the
00:17:14
◼
►
implications of that and i think this is
00:17:16
◼
►
a this is a another good example of
00:17:19
◼
►
taking a taking a premise and then ring
00:17:23
◼
►
a whole bunch of problematic
00:17:25
◼
►
interpersonal and social implications
00:17:27
◼
►
out of perfect replayable memory and it
00:17:32
◼
►
and it involves the dissolution of a
00:17:36
◼
►
marriage so what people what people
00:17:39
◼
►
think of this one
00:17:40
◼
►
David of of the first three in the first
00:17:44
◼
►
season this would be my favorite mine
00:17:48
◼
►
yeah well and see you know earlier in
00:17:51
◼
►
slack i said okay i don't know your list
00:17:53
◼
►
but I see the ratios i think i know
00:17:55
◼
►
which ones I think we like the same ones
00:17:58
◼
►
this this is just an interesting story
00:18:01
◼
►
well told and with it with a devastating
00:18:05
◼
►
payoff and it doesn't it doesn't overdo
00:18:09
◼
►
it doesn't belabor it just it's exactly
00:18:12
◼
►
right Dave sorry i was doing tom
00:18:17
◼
►
I think it's very well in terms of
00:18:19
◼
►
structuring the story and the characters
00:18:21
◼
►
and everything but the tech the tech was
00:18:22
◼
►
pretty cool but when it comes down to it
00:18:24
◼
►
this was a crappy person using tech
00:18:26
◼
►
crappily and you can make this story
00:18:28
◼
►
with twitter or text messages or
00:18:30
◼
►
anything right now and I don't know if
00:18:32
◼
►
what the show did again was worth the
00:18:35
◼
►
the emotional turmoil at the characters
00:18:39
◼
►
in the audience were put through because
00:18:40
◼
►
of the fact that the tech was so minimal
00:18:42
◼
►
well the world part but because this
00:18:44
◼
►
this is where the show works for me
00:18:47
◼
►
because the tech is important you know
00:18:49
◼
►
you need the tech for the story but the
00:18:51
◼
►
characters are what you're watching and
00:18:54
◼
►
and broker does not always care about
00:18:56
◼
►
the characters he is he's very into the
00:18:58
◼
►
tech in a lot of the shows and this is
00:19:01
◼
►
one where it's all it works for me
00:19:03
◼
►
and unlike some black mare episodes that
00:19:05
◼
►
this in this one the tech exists
00:19:09
◼
►
to bring out an implication of our
00:19:11
◼
►
social interactions and it actually
00:19:15
◼
►
reminded me a little bit of the
00:19:17
◼
►
invention of lying the regular basis
00:19:19
◼
►
movie which is the you know which is a
00:19:21
◼
►
it's got its own problems but the same
00:19:24
◼
►
idea is here because the entire history
00:19:25
◼
►
of you is about how there are if you can
00:19:30
◼
►
see everything that happened and
00:19:31
◼
►
remember everything that happened
00:19:33
◼
►
it's not necessarily a good thing in
00:19:35
◼
►
fact we lie and omit and miss remember
00:19:40
◼
►
and forget and it's one of the things
00:19:42
◼
►
that allows society and personal
00:19:45
◼
►
relationships to function and that if
00:19:47
◼
►
your idealistic and say no if everybody
00:19:49
◼
►
told the truth or if everything that you
00:19:51
◼
►
ever did could be checked that the world
00:19:53
◼
►
would be a better place and this is
00:19:55
◼
►
broker saying really what it and I
00:19:57
◼
►
appreciated that about it to that it
00:19:59
◼
►
that is that's what ultimately what it's
00:20:01
◼
►
about is what destroys this relationship
00:20:05
◼
►
is I mean yeah it's jealousy and there's
00:20:08
◼
►
some infidelity and all these other
00:20:09
◼
►
things mixed in there but ultimately
00:20:11
◼
►
it's about a lack of trust and the
00:20:14
◼
►
ability to prove or disprove everything
00:20:16
◼
►
in the world and you know I appreciate
00:20:18
◼
►
that about it like the first to have
00:20:20
◼
►
some really good satirical points and
00:20:24
◼
►
and really sharp things to say about the
00:20:26
◼
►
tech or about the politics or reality TV
00:20:31
◼
►
this one is actually a story about
00:20:32
◼
►
people yeah and it's it's something that
00:20:34
◼
►
we could live we can see ourselves going
00:20:37
◼
►
through the story John really isn't that
00:20:42
◼
►
so I am I really complained about that
00:20:44
◼
►
again everything the same except one
00:20:46
◼
►
piece of technology extended out
00:20:48
◼
►
ridiculously and the implications they
00:20:50
◼
►
would come from the existence of that
00:20:51
◼
►
technology totally ignored because if
00:20:54
◼
►
you could do that you could do so many
00:20:55
◼
►
other things but like now we just want
00:20:57
◼
►
to talk about this but i'm willing to
00:20:59
◼
►
mostly forgive that because i like David
00:21:01
◼
►
said this is episode about characters
00:21:03
◼
►
you could have this episode about slow
00:21:06
◼
►
dawning realization of infidelity you
00:21:08
◼
►
can have a sudden 1800 and it would
00:21:10
◼
►
still be good if done well right and the
00:21:13
◼
►
technology angle is what makes us a
00:21:14
◼
►
blackberry episodes like here is here
00:21:18
◼
►
here is that the black mirror twist on
00:21:20
◼
►
it is that at in the way you've seen the
00:21:22
◼
►
story told before with the ways that you
00:21:24
◼
►
can realize infidelity is happening here
00:21:26
◼
►
is a new way to both make a realization
00:21:30
◼
►
about it and obsess over both of which
00:21:32
◼
►
happened in the in regular life and have
00:21:35
◼
►
for millennia like all that stuff
00:21:37
◼
►
happens and when it happens always the
00:21:40
◼
►
people who are doing it are using the
00:21:41
◼
►
tools of the time this is showing us
00:21:43
◼
►
imagine if there was another tool and
00:21:45
◼
►
like Grayson said you know that the
00:21:47
◼
►
implications of being of having more
00:21:48
◼
►
information available this is not that
00:21:51
◼
►
big of an extension from you know
00:21:53
◼
►
Facebook stalking your ex or obsessing
00:21:56
◼
►
over text messages or looking at old
00:21:58
◼
►
pictures I mean just looking at old
00:22:00
◼
►
pictures with the thing that you
00:22:01
◼
►
couldn't do before photography because
00:22:03
◼
►
you're maybe you had an old painting but
00:22:05
◼
►
if you're rich but that's about it right
00:22:07
◼
►
so I you know I i would give this one a
00:22:10
◼
►
pass on the that the sci-fi trap of
00:22:13
◼
►
extending one technology leave
00:22:14
◼
►
everything else the same because I
00:22:16
◼
►
enjoyed watching it for the characters
00:22:18
◼
►
and the story and i think it passes the
00:22:20
◼
►
minimum bar for sci-fi ish anthology
00:22:23
◼
►
show it with a dim view of these
00:22:26
◼
►
particular characters and I also think
00:22:28
◼
►
like this one pulls back a little bit i
00:22:31
◼
►
mean it's I stuff like it's trying to
00:22:33
◼
►
say if we have this tech this is what's
00:22:36
◼
►
gonna happen to everybody and I don't
00:22:37
◼
►
like that but I'm willing to headcanon
00:22:39
◼
►
it back into a narrower story and say
00:22:41
◼
►
this is a story about these characters
00:22:43
◼
►
and it played out so definitely my
00:22:44
◼
►
favorite of the first season
00:22:45
◼
►
head-and-shoulders about who I'm okay
00:22:48
◼
►
I'm okay with it because i think the
00:22:50
◼
►
implication and this is actually the
00:22:51
◼
►
biggest problem i have with it is this
00:22:53
◼
►
is this is also about how this guy
00:22:55
◼
►
is awful I mean it exists driven to it
00:23:00
◼
►
but it's like the tech isn't the reason
00:23:01
◼
►
this happens he's the reason this
00:23:04
◼
►
yeah you feel like the show is blaming
00:23:05
◼
►
attack it's like now no not that I mean
00:23:08
◼
►
he would also be the facebook stalker
00:23:09
◼
►
like Matt this to this so many weekend
00:23:12
◼
►
1800 be waiting outside the tavern for
00:23:15
◼
►
you to leave he can let the fact that
00:23:17
◼
►
that an old boyfriend of his wife is our
00:23:19
◼
►
is there he could let it go entirely and
00:23:22
◼
►
he doesn't and that leads to a spiral
00:23:24
◼
►
that leads to disaster but a more
00:23:26
◼
►
confident emotionally balanced human
00:23:29
◼
►
being would let it go right and it's
00:23:32
◼
►
like the tekkit just enables the spiral
00:23:34
◼
►
but he's the reason why i should mention
00:23:36
◼
►
this is the only episode of black mirror
00:23:38
◼
►
that is not does not contain a charlie
00:23:40
◼
►
brooker writing credit at all it is just
00:23:42
◼
►
the Armstrongs episode so and you guys
00:23:44
◼
►
are really funny i like this the least
00:23:46
◼
►
of three of the first season but I still
00:23:48
◼
►
thought it was fine i think i thought it
00:23:49
◼
►
was fine i thought it was fine I i find
00:23:52
◼
►
i find the last half very difficult to
00:23:55
◼
►
watch and that's what pushed it down the
00:23:57
◼
►
the emotional abuse her know that
00:24:00
◼
►
happens as well as the violence as a man
00:24:03
◼
►
comes completely on board and does a
00:24:05
◼
►
sequence of just parentally awful things
00:24:08
◼
►
i find i found really really difficult
00:24:11
◼
►
to watch and again the expectations that
00:24:13
◼
►
black mirror sets for being a show about
00:24:15
◼
►
tech made the ending fall flat for me
00:24:18
◼
►
because there really wasn't much of that
00:24:19
◼
►
and as so often happens on the
00:24:21
◼
►
incomparable this discussion is really
00:24:22
◼
►
making me want to go back and re-watch
00:24:24
◼
►
it as a character drama with tech any
00:24:27
◼
►
and not a text story with some drama in
00:24:30
◼
►
it what stood out to me the most about
00:24:31
◼
►
this episode was when they're having sex
00:24:33
◼
►
while playing back memories of better
00:24:36
◼
►
sex and that was the one that really hit
00:24:38
◼
►
music oh ok thats that's where the shows
00:24:40
◼
►
going to go now okay and that turned me
00:24:43
◼
►
off from the rest of the show if i can
00:24:44
◼
►
remove that from my mind and re-watch it
00:24:46
◼
►
with this new lens of this is a better
00:24:49
◼
►
written drama that's not run by Charlie
00:24:50
◼
►
Booker i'll give it another shot once
00:24:52
◼
►
i'm a little bit more emotionally stable
00:24:54
◼
►
after the sponge hashtag premier to and
00:24:57
◼
►
and the and the amazing thing about that
00:25:00
◼
►
those you know how many times has that
00:25:02
◼
►
happened where you do start replaying in
00:25:05
◼
►
this can literally replay it for you in
00:25:08
◼
►
perfect detail and it adds forever and
00:25:11
◼
►
is yeah okay let's talk about white bear
00:25:17
◼
►
so in white bear a woman wakes up and
00:25:22
◼
►
doesn't remember who she is and goes
00:25:24
◼
►
outside and there are a bunch of people
00:25:26
◼
►
just standing around looking at their
00:25:28
◼
►
phones and watching and recording her
00:25:30
◼
►
and people try to kill her and she runs
00:25:32
◼
►
around and people try to kill her some
00:25:34
◼
►
more and she runs around and lady says
00:25:39
◼
►
we need to go to the transmitter because
00:25:41
◼
►
that will stop people trying to kill us
00:25:42
◼
►
and they take her there and it's
00:25:45
◼
►
revealed that the transmitter is
00:25:46
◼
►
actually the stage of a kind of reality
00:25:49
◼
►
TV said would be where they're uh
00:25:51
◼
►
they're doing a show about punishing
00:25:54
◼
►
murderers by having them feel the fear
00:25:59
◼
►
that their victims had and that she
00:26:02
◼
►
actually with her boyfriend or husband
00:26:06
◼
►
or whoever cat kidnapped a little girl
00:26:09
◼
►
and he killed her and so she now is
00:26:12
◼
►
sentenced to relive this day over and
00:26:15
◼
►
over again that's white bear i have
00:26:19
◼
►
opinions about this but I want to hear
00:26:22
◼
►
Ryan this had the potential to be my
00:26:26
◼
►
favorite black mirror episode because my
00:26:28
◼
►
history with the show was I watched 15
00:26:30
◼
►
million merits first stopped watching
00:26:32
◼
►
and then once everyone started talking
00:26:34
◼
►
about San junipero i decide to jump back
00:26:36
◼
►
in and started with white bear which was
00:26:37
◼
►
one that somebody recommended to me and
00:26:40
◼
►
it has potential to be my favorite
00:26:42
◼
►
because I really thought that the show
00:26:44
◼
►
needed some kind of intensity without
00:26:47
◼
►
emotional abuse and i'm really into
00:26:50
◼
►
horror movies i'm really into this kind
00:26:52
◼
►
of it seemed post-apocalyptic almost up
00:26:54
◼
►
through the very end and it was
00:26:56
◼
►
well-made well-acted well everything
00:26:58
◼
►
like we already said about the entire
00:26:59
◼
►
series but then the ending the ending
00:27:04
◼
►
just threw everything that I loved about
00:27:07
◼
►
that episode away and restored faith in
00:27:10
◼
►
the fact that blackberry is not a show
00:27:11
◼
►
for me there are some episodes a black
00:27:14
◼
►
mirror where the big reveal is that
00:27:16
◼
►
everybody that we've sort of been
00:27:17
◼
►
going for is terrible and they deserve
00:27:19
◼
►
everything that you've seen them get and
00:27:21
◼
►
you shouldn't feel bad for them and i
00:27:23
◼
►
find this kind of a frustrating and
00:27:25
◼
►
questionable decision but it's one that
00:27:30
◼
►
they keep making so i guess they think
00:27:31
◼
►
it's really great to do that so in this
00:27:33
◼
►
case you know this woman who seems like
00:27:35
◼
►
the victim is revealed to have been a an
00:27:37
◼
►
accomplice in the kidnapping and murder
00:27:40
◼
►
of a little girl and so we you know
00:27:42
◼
►
wherever we're witnessing her you know
00:27:45
◼
►
torture as justice essentially yeah John
00:27:50
◼
►
Charlie introduction so black mirror it
00:27:53
◼
►
is like a collection of things you
00:27:56
◼
►
shouldn't do I stories and so this isn't
00:28:00
◼
►
this episode is of the the genre where
00:28:03
◼
►
I'm going to make a story sci-fi story
00:28:07
◼
►
or any start really what happens live on
00:28:08
◼
►
syfy where I'm going to pretend the
00:28:12
◼
►
human nature has changed so radically
00:28:14
◼
►
that the entire world is entirely on
00:28:18
◼
►
board with the repeated incredibly cruel
00:28:21
◼
►
torture of this admitted you know killer
00:28:23
◼
►
our accomplice to murder or whatever and
00:28:26
◼
►
they're cheery about it and they bring
00:28:28
◼
►
their kids and isn't that super dark and
00:28:31
◼
►
terrible and it's like that's not what
00:28:33
◼
►
human beings are like I you like that is
00:28:37
◼
►
a ridiculous premise especially when its
00:28:39
◼
►
unsupported just be the surrounding
00:28:42
◼
►
hellscape you know Carrie pig's blood
00:28:45
◼
►
nightmare for who
00:28:46
◼
►
someone who turns out to be a murderer
00:28:47
◼
►
like all those people like it there
00:28:50
◼
►
there there and filming and they're so
00:28:51
◼
►
like there's not enough psychos in the
00:28:53
◼
►
world to fill those slots in that thing
00:28:56
◼
►
and the idea that it is a happy
00:28:58
◼
►
important part of a functioning Society
00:29:02
◼
►
yeah it only exists to further heighten
00:29:04
◼
►
the you know the the horror of like I
00:29:08
◼
►
can't imagine if I was in that situation
00:29:09
◼
►
and then as Jason said the final thing
00:29:11
◼
►
which i think is probably not a unique
00:29:13
◼
►
black mera twist a signature move of
00:29:17
◼
►
saying well guess what that person was
00:29:18
◼
►
terrible too so so you have fake people
00:29:20
◼
►
who act like humans would never act for
00:29:22
◼
►
inexplicable reasons and your heroes
00:29:24
◼
►
terrible to the end and was screaming
00:29:28
◼
►
yeah David yep yep
00:29:31
◼
►
yeah what if black mirror but even but
00:29:36
◼
►
uh yeah this is this is a dub almost I
00:29:40
◼
►
don't know its worst are tied for worst
00:29:43
◼
►
I i hated this I let me use the way
00:29:46
◼
►
I despise this episode for lots of
00:29:50
◼
►
um you know I despise this episode the
00:29:53
◼
►
ok the yeah i mean first off it it feels
00:29:59
◼
►
so artificial throughout I mean I get
00:30:01
◼
►
that it is kinetic there's a lot of
00:30:03
◼
►
action there's car chases and gunfire
00:30:05
◼
►
and people running in a showdown at a
00:30:09
◼
►
convenience store and all those things
00:30:10
◼
►
and it's super creepy because it's like
00:30:12
◼
►
as again post-apocalyptic is everybody's
00:30:14
◼
►
sort of had their mind taken over by
00:30:16
◼
►
this thing this beaming out that's
00:30:18
◼
►
making them be like zombies and watching
00:30:20
◼
►
or try to kill this lady that but i
00:30:25
◼
►
found it unpleasant to watch and I
00:30:28
◼
►
didn't really enjoy any but it seems
00:30:30
◼
►
sick it is brian i don't like horror
00:30:32
◼
►
movies so i can say no you i can see
00:30:34
◼
►
that right cuz I don't like horror
00:30:35
◼
►
movies is it just felt like that and
00:30:37
◼
►
perhaps a competent one so I disliked it
00:30:39
◼
►
already and then we get to the we get to
00:30:43
◼
►
the twist which one first off I felt was
00:30:45
◼
►
completely ridiculous and I and didn't
00:30:50
◼
►
help my opinion of it that now what we
00:30:52
◼
►
were actually watching is this
00:30:53
◼
►
ridiculous kind of reality show the only
00:30:55
◼
►
thing in this entire episode that i
00:30:57
◼
►
actually liked was over the end credits
00:31:00
◼
►
where it's like a production documentary
00:31:02
◼
►
of how they make the White Bear the
00:31:04
◼
►
trunk atrocity this is the White Bear
00:31:07
◼
►
reality show that that made me laugh
00:31:09
◼
►
because they're it's all of the
00:31:11
◼
►
trappings of a TV shows electronic press
00:31:14
◼
►
kit applied to this horrible thing and
00:31:17
◼
►
that made me that made me chuckle
00:31:18
◼
►
because that's not the only episode of
00:31:21
◼
►
black mirror where I felt like this
00:31:22
◼
►
little tidbit at the end should have
00:31:24
◼
►
been the whole episode because that
00:31:26
◼
►
would have been more cutting and instead
00:31:28
◼
►
you know instead this feels like like
00:31:31
◼
►
some movies that I've disliked over the
00:31:33
◼
►
years trying to have their cake and eat
00:31:36
◼
►
it too which is where really commenting
00:31:38
◼
►
on this by doing the exact same thing
00:31:40
◼
►
like now I don't think you get to do
00:31:42
◼
►
both of those things so yeah I hated and
00:31:44
◼
►
then was just so completely nullifies
00:31:46
◼
►
the rest of the show because the only
00:31:48
◼
►
thing of substance in the rest of the
00:31:50
◼
►
show is build up to a twist at once you
00:31:52
◼
►
know what it is that makes the rest of
00:31:54
◼
►
the episode you said this is all fake
00:31:55
◼
►
right it's all fake out so what you saw
00:31:57
◼
►
was a fake you you're seeing a show of a
00:31:59
◼
►
show that's fake there are really no
00:32:01
◼
►
steaks what you're seeing is this woman
00:32:02
◼
►
get terrified and you know did we really
00:32:04
◼
►
i mean the only reason I related to her
00:32:07
◼
►
is because she was in the opening scene
00:32:08
◼
►
and we followed the camera followed her
00:32:10
◼
►
but it's not like i emotionally
00:32:11
◼
►
connected with her and then was shocked
00:32:13
◼
►
when she was revealed to be a murderer
00:32:15
◼
►
that didn't really happen i'm just
00:32:16
◼
►
following her she runs right yeah if if
00:32:20
◼
►
that in sequence had been the whole show
00:32:22
◼
►
then you get to have a an hour of of
00:32:26
◼
►
sharp cutting satire about justice
00:32:29
◼
►
reality shows people's blood lust you
00:32:32
◼
►
have all of that
00:32:33
◼
►
instead you just have this little tiny
00:32:35
◼
►
snippet that you go well and you never
00:32:38
◼
►
want to see the rest of the episode
00:32:39
◼
►
again because what's the point good
00:32:41
◼
►
excuse for action sequences though which
00:32:42
◼
►
is what they gave us
00:32:44
◼
►
yeah yeah I'd like when it was started
00:32:46
◼
►
when and that's the other thing the
00:32:49
◼
►
episode was very easy to write the
00:32:51
◼
►
ending was very tricky if that had been
00:32:54
◼
►
the show it would have been trickier to
00:32:55
◼
►
write but it would've been so much
00:32:57
◼
►
better and wouldn't have been lazy
00:32:59
◼
►
yeah well I'm starting to realize about
00:33:02
◼
►
what I hate about black mirror is in
00:33:04
◼
►
white bear and 15 million merits
00:33:06
◼
►
especially the idea of public shaming
00:33:09
◼
►
and this kind of disbelief in the public
00:33:12
◼
►
to be any good and especially moments
00:33:15
◼
►
where the public is you know gasps
00:33:17
◼
►
lighted and convinced into believing
00:33:19
◼
►
something by a larger organization
00:33:23
◼
►
and we are put through the consequences
00:33:26
◼
►
of that by seeing characters that we've
00:33:28
◼
►
started to know and love put through
00:33:30
◼
►
terrible things not just you know being
00:33:31
◼
►
put through terrible things but in front
00:33:33
◼
►
of a crowd cheering them on doing like
00:33:36
◼
►
amplifying everything it's every single
00:33:38
◼
►
pantsless giving a speech dream you've
00:33:40
◼
►
had on TV multiple times which is weird
00:33:43
◼
►
although i will point out one out there
00:33:44
◼
►
is also an episode that i love that will
00:33:46
◼
►
get to a black mirror that seems to take
00:33:48
◼
►
the opposite tack which i find
00:33:50
◼
►
interesting that it isn't arguing with
00:33:52
◼
►
itself i don't know we'll get there
00:33:56
◼
►
next is the waldo moment which has been
00:33:58
◼
►
uh talked about a lot lately because I
00:34:01
◼
►
wonder why it is about a puppet the
00:34:06
◼
►
puppet nobody know but it is about a pre
00:34:09
◼
►
atv kind of cgi animated like live on
00:34:14
◼
►
the fly again a little like Max Headroom
00:34:16
◼
►
actually although not really he was kind
00:34:19
◼
►
of faked out but the idea of Max
00:34:21
◼
►
Headroom which is it's a comedian is
00:34:23
◼
►
working some equipment and creating this
00:34:25
◼
►
computer-generated bear who appears on
00:34:29
◼
►
TV and he runs four runs for a stands
00:34:35
◼
►
for a by-election for the UK Parliament
00:34:37
◼
►
is what happens and against the Tory and
00:34:40
◼
►
and labor candidates and the enters the
00:34:46
◼
►
debate and appears in a debate after
00:34:48
◼
►
harassing the the it's a safe seat for
00:34:51
◼
►
the Tories so here asses Tobias Menzies
00:34:53
◼
►
who I enjoy in lots of things and he's
00:34:55
◼
►
the inventory candidate and miss mr.
00:34:58
◼
►
Monroe and and in the end it becomes a
00:35:03
◼
►
viral sensation and Waldo the bear
00:35:07
◼
►
becomes more and more popular and
00:35:10
◼
►
meanwhile there's also a little side
00:35:11
◼
►
plot where the CIA comes to them and
00:35:14
◼
►
says this would be great to help us
00:35:16
◼
►
overthrow other countries that's just in
00:35:20
◼
►
no that's the that's the Walter moment i
00:35:23
◼
►
miss now mrs. now pay attention to me
00:35:25
◼
►
I've opinions yes yes mr. Monroe the
00:35:30
◼
►
fact that this episode is the one that
00:35:32
◼
►
is least talked about right now
00:35:34
◼
►
mmhmm yeah David I like bears
00:35:44
◼
►
I'm just you know I like bears
00:35:47
◼
►
uh-huh do you like waldo yeah yeah I
00:35:53
◼
►
like a better than Trump John this one
00:35:59
◼
►
on the suffers from a problem not
00:36:01
◼
►
related to sci-fi which is the studio 60
00:36:03
◼
►
on the Sunset Strip problem where did
00:36:06
◼
►
it's a show ostensibly about a comedy
00:36:08
◼
►
show but the comedy show is never funny
00:36:09
◼
►
so I see what this episode was going for
00:36:12
◼
►
but waldo was dumb and not convincing
00:36:14
◼
►
and so it undercuts I mean it's hard to
00:36:16
◼
►
do it i granted it's hard to do and so I
00:36:19
◼
►
think I kind of see what they were going
00:36:21
◼
►
for and in what they wanted to say i
00:36:23
◼
►
mean this this is this is not a trap but
00:36:26
◼
►
this is just what is doing that sort of
00:36:28
◼
►
moralizing like don't read on the public
00:36:30
◼
►
is and how they can easily be swayed but
00:36:31
◼
►
it's you know but it's sadly true but i
00:36:33
◼
►
think this was a not great execution of
00:36:36
◼
►
that ideas at waldos not that
00:36:38
◼
►
the satire could have been more cutting
00:36:41
◼
►
if it was like the angle the fact that
00:36:44
◼
►
he cg and virtual is a person behind him
00:36:46
◼
►
is not particularly interesting doesn't
00:36:50
◼
►
add much but it's like it's the
00:36:51
◼
►
obligatory sci-fi thing so I'd this this
00:36:53
◼
►
episode i really like it but I certainly
00:36:55
◼
►
didn't hate it so just kind of sits
00:36:57
◼
►
there i put in the middle and about the
00:36:59
◼
►
fact that but again it was the easiest
00:37:03
◼
►
way of doing this story and so it was
00:37:06
◼
►
like well alright now do something give
00:37:09
◼
►
me twist you can you pick anything
00:37:11
◼
►
Brian what i will say is that unlike
00:37:14
◼
►
john i did like the fact that there was
00:37:16
◼
►
a person behind Waldo in that his ark as
00:37:19
◼
►
somebody who created this character and
00:37:21
◼
►
then ending up somewhere where the
00:37:23
◼
►
character completely outgrew him and
00:37:24
◼
►
he's abandoned and drinking alone in the
00:37:26
◼
►
middle of some country that's
00:37:27
◼
►
unspecified I like that a lot
00:37:29
◼
►
even though all the political commentary
00:37:31
◼
►
was happening in the background again I
00:37:33
◼
►
think like me shines the best when the
00:37:35
◼
►
characters are front and center and
00:37:38
◼
►
everything else happening around them
00:37:39
◼
►
and I feel like this is the perfect
00:37:40
◼
►
relationship between Waldo and his
00:37:42
◼
►
creator but you could have the same
00:37:44
◼
►
story without the the puppet
00:37:46
◼
►
did like he creates the character but
00:37:48
◼
►
like plays himself which i think would
00:37:49
◼
►
be more accurate to politicians and
00:37:51
◼
►
eventually the character of gross him
00:37:53
◼
►
the problem is that he still trapped in
00:37:55
◼
►
the character because of the same person
00:37:56
◼
►
the fact that this was a CG thing that
00:37:58
◼
►
could be taken over by another person
00:37:59
◼
►
again is the sci-fi angle and like
00:38:01
◼
►
you've made this creation but it's not
00:38:02
◼
►
really you like I see where they're
00:38:03
◼
►
going with that but it like that there
00:38:07
◼
►
are better ways to tell the same story
00:38:08
◼
►
that's been told it's been told better
00:38:11
◼
►
and in other contexts the into twist in
00:38:13
◼
►
the wall darkness doesn't add to it for
00:38:16
◼
►
me I like the I like the fact that it's
00:38:19
◼
►
a virtual character and I mean they're
00:38:21
◼
►
trying to say something about sort of
00:38:22
◼
►
viral videos and we've got every in a
00:38:24
◼
►
late-night talk show host is trying to
00:38:25
◼
►
generate viral videos and here's a
00:38:26
◼
►
character who who kind of goes viral
00:38:29
◼
►
accidentally but it squandered and I
00:38:32
◼
►
have this in my it's this at the bottom
00:38:34
◼
►
of my kind of mid rank of sort of like
00:38:36
◼
►
you know it i like things about it but
00:38:39
◼
►
it could have been way better like I
00:38:42
◼
►
think the scene where this comedian who
00:38:46
◼
►
kinda hates this character and is really
00:38:48
◼
►
reluctant to push it and really
00:38:51
◼
►
reluctant to be he feels he doesn't want
00:38:53
◼
►
to talk about politics right he just
00:38:55
◼
►
wants to tell his jokes and he meets
00:38:59
◼
►
well he does more than meet the Labour
00:39:03
◼
►
candidate when Paris right and he meets
00:39:08
◼
►
her in a in a in a bar and they chat and
00:39:11
◼
►
they go back to his room so I I feel
00:39:18
◼
►
like that that their interaction was
00:39:20
◼
►
really interesting and the idea that she
00:39:23
◼
►
is running for a seat that she can't win
00:39:25
◼
►
and the dynamics of that in terms of
00:39:27
◼
►
politics at and that you know mr.
00:39:30
◼
►
Munro's got in the bag and that's what I
00:39:32
◼
►
really wish the episode had been about I
00:39:34
◼
►
really wish the episode had spent more
00:39:36
◼
►
time with that dynamic like what if you
00:39:39
◼
►
know could although win could Waldo
00:39:41
◼
►
sabotage mr. Munro's so that the Labour
00:39:45
◼
►
candidate who maybe you know if she had
00:39:47
◼
►
more beliefs which she doesn't and I
00:39:49
◼
►
think that's kind of the the cynical
00:39:51
◼
►
view of politics is probably accurate
00:39:53
◼
►
that dead charlie brooker has I just
00:39:55
◼
►
felt like I kinda wanted more of the
00:39:57
◼
►
political stuff i was really surprised
00:39:59
◼
►
point is there a thread about how it
00:40:02
◼
►
comes out that the voice of waldo has
00:40:05
◼
►
been romantically engaged with the
00:40:08
◼
►
Labour candidate and that maybe this is
00:40:10
◼
►
all just trying to sabotage Monroe I
00:40:13
◼
►
figured that would be a plotline never
00:40:15
◼
►
happens and in or is it threatened nor
00:40:18
◼
►
does anybody threaten it which just
00:40:20
◼
►
seemed kind of completely unrealistic to
00:40:22
◼
►
me on top of anything else so it's like
00:40:24
◼
►
and the CIA stuff is like from another
00:40:25
◼
►
movie it's like from a from an extremely
00:40:28
◼
►
hot rod kind of you know I don't know
00:40:32
◼
►
men in black kind of movie it's just
00:40:34
◼
►
completely out of left field so I feel
00:40:37
◼
►
like there was a really brilliant
00:40:39
◼
►
episode that might have been made using
00:40:41
◼
►
all of these component parts except for
00:40:43
◼
►
the CIA guy and then make it
00:40:46
◼
►
well it's like an episode of chopped
00:40:48
◼
►
about with TV show elements
00:40:50
◼
►
ok sure we move on we just gave a big
00:40:54
◼
►
net to the wall the moment
00:40:57
◼
►
so speaking of trying to kill people
00:41:01
◼
►
play test is next this is a an episode
00:41:04
◼
►
in which an American backpacker who
00:41:06
◼
►
travels around the world decides to sign
00:41:08
◼
►
up for an NDA of a new augmented reality
00:41:12
◼
►
game where they put an implant in your
00:41:14
◼
►
brain and you see things that aren't
00:41:16
◼
►
there and then he plays the game which
00:41:19
◼
►
is a way to do lots of jump-scares that
00:41:22
◼
►
are commented on but still are again we
00:41:26
◼
►
comment on the tropes but we still use
00:41:27
◼
►
the tropes and it goes horribly wrong or
00:41:31
◼
►
does it or it does or does it or it does
00:41:35
◼
►
this inferior was so much this this is
00:41:39
◼
►
one that could have been 22 minutes and
00:41:41
◼
►
done you just have to give the the title
00:41:44
◼
►
and a one-sentence promising like I've
00:41:45
◼
►
seen that before yeah yeah yeahs this
00:41:48
◼
►
this was I mean I this is where
00:41:50
◼
►
commander Riker keeps waking up in
00:41:52
◼
►
different reality right it is same place
00:41:56
◼
►
I think we've even seen it with video
00:41:58
◼
►
game yeah the whole idea I'm but it's a
00:41:59
◼
►
video game but but it goes too far like
00:42:02
◼
►
in the video game becomes real and you
00:42:04
◼
►
thought it was just a game but now there
00:42:06
◼
►
are actual steaks and it turns out you
00:42:08
◼
►
die and then the company on too far no
00:42:10
◼
►
one will be seated dying the game you
00:42:12
◼
►
die in real life no one will be saved
00:42:14
◼
►
during the 2-minute long whack-a-mole
00:42:15
◼
►
seen there is a welcome Elaine when when
00:42:19
◼
►
when his phone rang early on and I went
00:42:23
◼
►
that's an interesting detail that's
00:42:26
◼
►
check on mom not we asked them right and
00:42:29
◼
►
not a single show know when when it
00:42:32
◼
►
played out exactly the way I thought
00:42:34
◼
►
from that point on and and so my
00:42:36
◼
►
fifteen-year-old watch this with me and
00:42:39
◼
►
he said you guys are talking about this
00:42:41
◼
►
show are they all this stupid oh my god
00:42:45
◼
►
no they're not all dlc this is literally
00:42:48
◼
►
the morning so these are brand-new
00:42:49
◼
►
stupid this is the worst episode where I
00:42:51
◼
►
think this is it that I don't think it
00:42:52
◼
►
is here so I don't think this is the
00:42:53
◼
►
worst one because it promises a again
00:42:57
◼
►
it's got the technology would have
00:42:59
◼
►
amazing implications that are not
00:43:00
◼
►
reviewable whatever it this game company
00:43:02
◼
►
has a goal to make a game and you know
00:43:05
◼
►
this charismatic leader who wanted to do
00:43:07
◼
►
this thing and it's super dangerous and
00:43:09
◼
►
they are evil and evil company that is
00:43:11
◼
►
suffering people in to these tests on
00:43:13
◼
►
that are dangerous and cause them to die
00:43:15
◼
►
but you don't that it's not like and
00:43:20
◼
►
all humans like that now you like this
00:43:22
◼
►
company is like that right that's an
00:43:24
◼
►
evil corporation is the antagonist and
00:43:25
◼
►
the protagonist or whatever is a poor
00:43:27
◼
►
person gets sucked into it i think it is
00:43:30
◼
►
far less grimy and cynical and stupid
00:43:34
◼
►
and over reaching the other episodes it
00:43:38
◼
►
is straight down the middle
00:43:40
◼
►
exactly what it's going to be it never
00:43:42
◼
►
surprises you it is pretty boring and
00:43:44
◼
►
that's why i hate it i can't put it on
00:43:45
◼
►
the bottom is it doesn't make me like
00:43:47
◼
►
that angry and it's like well yeah I'd
00:43:49
◼
►
say it's lack of ambition is why i hate
00:43:51
◼
►
it i I think it's just garbage i think
00:43:52
◼
►
it I think it is everything that black
00:43:54
◼
►
mirror should be satirizing which is
00:43:56
◼
►
yes it's just kinda it's obvious and
00:43:59
◼
►
it's garbage and and you know I i
00:44:01
◼
►
thought this was in the bottom couple of
00:44:04
◼
►
episodes for me and then there's the
00:44:05
◼
►
final twist which i have now read in a
00:44:08
◼
►
couple different places was added
00:44:10
◼
►
because the director thought it would be
00:44:11
◼
►
cool to add yet another twist twist
00:44:14
◼
►
where he wakes up an extra time and it
00:44:17
◼
►
turns out that he's dying because his
00:44:19
◼
►
mom is calling and that was not
00:44:21
◼
►
originally in the script originally in
00:44:23
◼
►
the script is going to go through all
00:44:24
◼
►
the horror and then he was going to wake
00:44:26
◼
►
up and it turns out that was it and he
00:44:28
◼
►
was he was done with his test and
00:44:30
◼
►
they're like no no we can put in extra
00:44:31
◼
►
twist like well okay I kind of hated
00:44:34
◼
►
that too but um you know it was before
00:44:38
◼
►
it was like he goes back in his mom is a
00:44:40
◼
►
is the reason his mom's been calling is
00:44:43
◼
►
that she's got Alzheimer's basically and
00:44:45
◼
►
she's very confused and doesn't
00:44:47
◼
►
recognize him and he's been running away
00:44:49
◼
►
from this the whole time and you realize
00:44:51
◼
►
that you know I thought that was it
00:44:53
◼
►
ok ending and the other end try to do a
00:44:55
◼
►
little bit of character building for
00:44:56
◼
►
this character whose is death marking
00:44:58
◼
►
late great line starting late
00:45:01
◼
►
yeah and also black mare really likes
00:45:03
◼
►
this is the the sci-fi trope of that
00:45:07
◼
►
time is different for fast computers
00:45:10
◼
►
the sweet dreams things like seconds
00:45:12
◼
►
right and they did it they did it with
00:45:14
◼
►
that with the Christmas 12 and it's like
00:45:16
◼
►
I like that idea it's done inside for a
00:45:19
◼
►
lot and I think I like stories that are
00:45:21
◼
►
built around that but they just sprinkle
00:45:22
◼
►
it on is like some you know it's
00:45:24
◼
►
officially missing dash on top drilling
00:45:25
◼
►
I missed you know this this baloney
00:45:28
◼
►
sandwich an episode like I think
00:45:31
◼
►
and speaking of amazing stories like
00:45:33
◼
►
amazing stories had a lot of straight up
00:45:34
◼
►
the middle ones too but they were so
00:45:36
◼
►
sort of innocent like the ud and forgive
00:45:38
◼
►
their naiveté but this doesn't fit
00:45:40
◼
►
enjoying don't don't don't make me ruin
00:45:43
◼
►
your childhood by telling you how bad
00:45:44
◼
►
amazing stories family was right now I
00:45:46
◼
►
don't get right yeah but like it's not
00:45:49
◼
►
forgiven for being like a kid's show and
00:45:51
◼
►
this is like it was not a kids show and
00:45:53
◼
►
it is supposed to be a horror game and
00:45:55
◼
►
it's part of black mirror yeah yeah we
00:45:58
◼
►
need to serve in retaliation for real
00:45:59
◼
►
genius again 22 minutes
00:46:02
◼
►
you wouldn't notice it would be fine
00:46:04
◼
►
help at 50 well but at 54 you notice the
00:46:07
◼
►
12 twist at the end rewrite minutes we
00:46:10
◼
►
absolutely absolutely it would still be
00:46:12
◼
►
a bad episode but at 22 minutes you
00:46:14
◼
►
don't have that whole long protracted
00:46:16
◼
►
travel montage and the date
00:46:19
◼
►
yeah yeah and then I don't like the day
00:46:22
◼
►
I come on like tuesday better than
00:46:23
◼
►
anything in the actual plot
00:46:25
◼
►
yeah yeah yeah i forgot I was even in
00:46:28
◼
►
there was like a regular yeah just move
00:46:31
◼
►
well yeah you've got like that vaguely
00:46:33
◼
►
interesting idea that is done as simply
00:46:37
◼
►
and conventionally as possible
00:46:39
◼
►
where is if you have a story better game
00:46:41
◼
►
manufacturer trying to come up with a
00:46:44
◼
►
game that will literally scare you to
00:46:45
◼
►
death without killing you and then how
00:46:48
◼
►
do they do that how do they walk up to
00:46:50
◼
►
that edge there's an interesting idea
00:46:52
◼
►
this is not it no this is a you know
00:46:55
◼
►
slasher film basically yeah he really
00:46:58
◼
►
didn't go far enough with the
00:46:59
◼
►
personalized horror because all they do
00:47:01
◼
►
know in high school bully
00:47:03
◼
►
yeah oh you don't like what is well
00:47:05
◼
►
here's a giant spider
00:47:06
◼
►
yeah whatever whatever I mean they've
00:47:10
◼
►
made a literal horror movie I can't hate
00:47:12
◼
►
this episode but it is not that Graham
00:47:13
◼
►
fair enough it's good solid shut up and
00:47:18
◼
►
dance is next
00:47:19
◼
►
shut up and dance is an episode in which
00:47:21
◼
►
people are caught and compromising
00:47:24
◼
►
captions by by their devices being
00:47:26
◼
►
hacked so that they they can be recorded
00:47:29
◼
►
and their messages can be read and then
00:47:31
◼
►
they are told by a mysterious group that
00:47:34
◼
►
only communicates and text messages to
00:47:36
◼
►
do a various series of things that is a
00:47:40
◼
►
Rube Goldberg and sort of series of
00:47:43
◼
►
steps that lead to increasingly
00:47:45
◼
►
ridiculous situations that they are
00:47:47
◼
►
forced to comply with or everything
00:47:50
◼
►
that's going to ruin their lives will be
00:47:52
◼
►
revealed and I I gotta give it to black
00:47:56
◼
►
mirror you know black mirror is a show
00:47:58
◼
►
that tries to take a premise and run it
00:48:01
◼
►
to its fullest and it does that here i
00:48:03
◼
►
would argue that it perhaps runs it like
00:48:06
◼
►
it runs off the cliff with its premise
00:48:09
◼
►
and continues to run into the great yeah
00:48:11
◼
►
but yeah yeah it's like it for a while
00:48:13
◼
►
I'm like oh I'm kind of digging this and
00:48:15
◼
►
shut up and dance words like it is he
00:48:17
◼
►
gets a cake he's going to take a cake
00:48:18
◼
►
somewhere OB think that that guy isn't
00:48:21
◼
►
going to eat the cake
00:48:22
◼
►
they're gonna wear who's gonna get the
00:48:23
◼
►
cake what's going on with the cake and
00:48:25
◼
►
then it just it and then it wears out
00:48:27
◼
►
its welcome and becomes something that
00:48:30
◼
►
is just yeah unpleasant but you know
00:48:32
◼
►
where was going you'd seen enough black
00:48:34
◼
►
mare at this point i do the beauty and I
00:48:36
◼
►
be identifying with us here i get this
00:48:38
◼
►
job i saw that i was hoping against hope
00:48:41
◼
►
i'm watching this I'm like maybe they're
00:48:42
◼
►
not doing what I think now they're doing
00:48:44
◼
►
it i hope the twist is a twist on my
00:48:46
◼
►
twisted metal I want you know I was
00:48:49
◼
►
excited by that whole like what's gonna
00:48:50
◼
►
happen next and go here and do that but
00:48:52
◼
►
i cannot fend off the the sure knowledge
00:48:55
◼
►
having watched the season opens up this
00:48:58
◼
►
point of where this was going
00:48:59
◼
►
and it just it just went there and
00:49:01
◼
►
fizzled out to its and
00:49:03
◼
►
and the moral of the story is haha and
00:49:05
◼
►
and the whole time I'm watching it all I
00:49:08
◼
►
could think of was the blackmail sketch
00:49:11
◼
►
for Monty Python's Flying Circus and
00:49:13
◼
►
Michael Palin hosting a game show called
00:49:15
◼
►
blackmail which basically did this in
00:49:18
◼
►
about four and a half minutes it was
00:49:20
◼
►
much sharper and funnier did you I mean
00:49:23
◼
►
also he doesn't want to wear that for
00:49:25
◼
►
ruining Radiohead with child porn
00:49:27
◼
►
I you know not i'll get over it you can
00:49:30
◼
►
use you can use bad you know you can use
00:49:32
◼
►
music good music with bad stuff and I
00:49:34
◼
►
just the music will survive in the bad
00:49:36
◼
►
stuff will go away but but it is um yeah
00:49:39
◼
►
it out States welcome a lot and also for
00:49:42
◼
►
an insightful sort of social commentary
00:49:46
◼
►
and tech comment commentary thing I mean
00:49:48
◼
►
this episode is a little bit like guys
00:49:50
◼
►
guys did you know there are hackers and
00:49:53
◼
►
and and wait wait wait did you know
00:49:55
◼
►
there are text messages also trouble
00:49:59
◼
►
amazing there's also a troll face and we
00:50:01
◼
►
and also i don't know if anybody
00:50:02
◼
►
realized this but the they also get the
00:50:05
◼
►
GPS coordinates of everybody
00:50:08
◼
►
it's never that's never explain but yeah
00:50:09
◼
►
we have your computer but now we know
00:50:11
◼
►
where your phone is I don't think that
00:50:13
◼
►
actually makes any sense but ok uh what
00:50:18
◼
►
I'm saying is it it's tech satire is not
00:50:20
◼
►
particularly insightful other than that
00:50:22
◼
►
there are people out there on the
00:50:23
◼
►
internet who are jerks so fortune but
00:50:27
◼
►
even more i guess and much better
00:50:29
◼
►
organized unrealistically well-organized
00:50:31
◼
►
like the logistics of this are
00:50:33
◼
►
astronomical but the only thing about
00:50:35
◼
►
this and it's funny because there are
00:50:36
◼
►
two episodes that sort of address this
00:50:37
◼
►
at least that i think is interesting
00:50:40
◼
►
from a cultural standpoint is the idea
00:50:42
◼
►
as it turns out these people are all
00:50:43
◼
►
awful people and they've done terrible
00:50:44
◼
►
things our protagonist in this episode
00:50:46
◼
►
actually is the way they have on him is
00:50:48
◼
►
not that he was masturbating in front of
00:50:50
◼
►
its laptop it's that he's masturbating
00:50:51
◼
►
to child pornography in front of his
00:50:53
◼
►
laptop and uh you know I guess what it's
00:50:58
◼
►
trying to say is that the internet you
00:51:02
◼
►
know quill can destroy anyone and it and
00:51:05
◼
►
it can be bad people or good people but
00:51:08
◼
►
I mean it's a mess and not very good i
00:51:11
◼
►
think i'd also like to give a shoutout
00:51:15
◼
►
to jo steal for
00:51:16
◼
►
figuring out that twist five minutes in
00:51:18
◼
►
based on a single based on a single
00:51:21
◼
►
interaction with another person and I I
00:51:25
◼
►
completely missed that and I rewatched
00:51:26
◼
►
it and now that moment has a completely
00:51:28
◼
►
different meaning to me but kudos to
00:51:30
◼
►
John for actually figuring that out
00:51:31
◼
►
oh no Brian went down in the hole again
00:51:33
◼
►
Brian brain has his in your world but
00:51:37
◼
►
even more he went through them into the
00:51:39
◼
►
mirror world
00:51:40
◼
►
yeah wait did I do i Skype out yeah well
00:51:43
◼
►
you scrape by on your recording a song
00:51:44
◼
►
i'm sure all those will come through in
00:51:46
◼
►
the end that's all go together yet it is
00:51:50
◼
►
it brand in the mirror world now i'll
00:51:52
◼
►
send you coming on Blackie files again
00:51:55
◼
►
Jason come on
00:51:56
◼
►
anyway uh I mean the upside down and
00:51:58
◼
►
making Jason to these bits on this a bit
00:52:02
◼
►
alright well i'm not alone
00:52:05
◼
►
enough said about shut up and dance I
00:52:07
◼
►
think who shut up and move on
00:52:15
◼
►
alright let's move on can we got two
00:52:19
◼
►
more we should get to them very quickly
00:52:20
◼
►
and they're very different episodes very
00:52:22
◼
►
quickly very quickly men against fire is
00:52:25
◼
►
an episode where I figured out the
00:52:27
◼
►
shocking plot twist a minute in and then
00:52:30
◼
►
watched as it delighted in doing its
00:52:34
◼
►
razzle-dazzle magic trick for about 40
00:52:37
◼
►
minutes when I knew every step it was
00:52:39
◼
►
going to take and I didn't
00:52:42
◼
►
this is in my lower tier of my bottom
00:52:45
◼
►
for but i didn't put it all the way at
00:52:46
◼
►
the bottom because I appreciate the
00:52:48
◼
►
story it's trying to tell even as I
00:52:51
◼
►
figured out i mean literally got the
00:52:55
◼
►
entire thing in the first minute and
00:52:59
◼
►
knew exactly how the entire episode was
00:53:02
◼
►
going to go i appreciated some of the
00:53:04
◼
►
little bits in it in terms of style and
00:53:06
◼
►
the very very end although it lifts
00:53:08
◼
►
kinda from white Christmas honestly is
00:53:12
◼
►
an interesting ? sort of twist but you
00:53:16
◼
►
know this is this is about army people
00:53:18
◼
►
who are trying to root out a an
00:53:21
◼
►
infestation of monsters that they call
00:53:23
◼
►
roaches and they have a heads-up display
00:53:25
◼
►
basically in their eyes that allows them
00:53:27
◼
►
to get information about tactical stuff
00:53:30
◼
►
and the shocker is that what's really
00:53:34
◼
►
happening is the heads-up display
00:53:36
◼
►
tactical stuff is making people look
00:53:40
◼
►
like monsters because they are whoever
00:53:43
◼
►
they are whatever their reason whether
00:53:45
◼
►
they're gypsies or Jews or whatever or
00:53:49
◼
►
you know you name it a left-handed just
00:53:51
◼
►
yeah they could be left-handed
00:53:53
◼
►
left-handers that they had to agree with
00:53:55
◼
►
the butter side down they had to see
00:53:56
◼
►
that they are all identified uh in these
00:54:00
◼
►
displays and made to look like and sound
00:54:02
◼
►
like monsters so that it's easier for
00:54:05
◼
►
soldiers to kill them and not not feel
00:54:08
◼
►
bad about killing other human beings and
00:54:10
◼
►
one character has his system hacked and
00:54:13
◼
►
discovers that there are shockingly haha
00:54:16
◼
►
they're actually really really people
00:54:18
◼
►
and all this extermination talk to talk
00:54:20
◼
►
about destroying the the awfulness that
00:54:23
◼
►
they spread is just talking about that
00:54:26
◼
►
they want to wipe
00:54:26
◼
►
come out and commit genocide and I again
00:54:30
◼
►
a perfectly reasonable thing to do you
00:54:33
◼
►
know where we're against genocide
00:54:35
◼
►
murdering innocent people great but this
00:54:38
◼
►
is the one John where I said maybe i've
00:54:40
◼
►
read too much science fiction but good
00:54:42
◼
►
Lord that it was easy like you don't
00:54:44
◼
►
have to read any science fiction to get
00:54:45
◼
►
this and in fact that undercuts the
00:54:46
◼
►
whole idea because human beings do this
00:54:49
◼
►
without that time knowing that this is
00:54:50
◼
►
this is less grim than the reality so
00:54:53
◼
►
it's like home
00:54:55
◼
►
yeah it's like a smile games are
00:54:56
◼
►
dehumanizing our soldiers what if we
00:54:58
◼
►
made the actual were like a video game
00:55:00
◼
►
where they where they we turned the
00:55:02
◼
►
enemy into monsters
00:55:04
◼
►
yeah but like we don't need video games
00:55:05
◼
►
like genocide is yeah i know it happens
00:55:08
◼
►
you don't even like they just people for
00:55:11
◼
►
people who look exactly like that like
00:55:12
◼
►
you don't even look different you don't
00:55:14
◼
►
have to basically be left-handed like
00:55:16
◼
►
yeah we don't it is that I do not say
00:55:18
◼
►
that this whole gotta run wishes episode
00:55:20
◼
►
was so try out a grand and the execution
00:55:23
◼
►
was just like the only thing I liked
00:55:26
◼
►
about it was the idea that after you
00:55:29
◼
►
know that the it's like what if we don't
00:55:31
◼
►
erase your memories you'll know all the
00:55:32
◼
►
bad things you did and it's like to
00:55:33
◼
►
choose whether you want to do that or
00:55:35
◼
►
not just but even that you saw coming
00:55:37
◼
►
once you saw him in the shrinks office
00:55:39
◼
►
after going through all the stuff and
00:55:40
◼
►
it's Ned I I'm not angry this one like
00:55:44
◼
►
am angered the other ones this one falls
00:55:45
◼
►
into the same categories play test for
00:55:47
◼
►
me because it's like I know exactly what
00:55:49
◼
►
you're doing this episode you do it it's
00:55:50
◼
►
not that great
00:55:52
◼
►
done yeah yeah I mean GracePoint stop
00:55:56
◼
►
no go ahead at this point I stopped
00:56:00
◼
►
watching critically because i was so
00:56:01
◼
►
worn out from watching everything else
00:56:04
◼
►
so I just kinda like this episode wash
00:56:05
◼
►
over me and I didn't know the twist
00:56:07
◼
►
until the end when it was actually
00:56:08
◼
►
revealed and even then when the twist
00:56:11
◼
►
like hit me at the exact perfect moment
00:56:12
◼
►
to show intended it to
00:56:14
◼
►
I was still just as underwhelmed
00:56:15
◼
►
everything else because we end with
00:56:17
◼
►
black mirror screaming and consequences
00:56:19
◼
►
for characters and yeah fun and whatever
00:56:21
◼
►
we're 15 minutes points and I rolling
00:56:23
◼
►
twist if you didn't see it coming you'd
00:56:25
◼
►
still roll your eyes at like I mean it's
00:56:27
◼
►
just so like John said it's it's so try
00:56:30
◼
►
it under it undercuts the reality of the
00:56:32
◼
►
situation does saying in order for this
00:56:34
◼
►
to happen they need to look like
00:56:35
◼
►
monsters to you with some sci-fi deck
00:56:38
◼
►
don't need that all well although I i do
00:56:40
◼
►
like the fact that the idea here is that
00:56:41
◼
►
they're not doing it so that they will
00:56:44
◼
►
kill them they're doing it so that they
00:56:46
◼
►
don't get PTSD and are more effective
00:56:48
◼
►
soldiers so whether they don't feel bad
00:56:51
◼
►
about it but like this thing is like we
00:56:53
◼
►
can't find enough people who who will
00:56:55
◼
►
either just blindly follow orders or be
00:56:57
◼
►
actually hate these people and in
00:56:59
◼
►
reality you can people who blindly
00:57:01
◼
►
follow orders and are actually hit
00:57:03
◼
►
because that girl here take that
00:57:05
◼
►
yeah yeah I mean we in terms of figuring
00:57:09
◼
►
out the twist and in the first minute
00:57:11
◼
►
welcome to my no I felt like you really
00:57:13
◼
►
it was yeah i mean probably read about
00:57:16
◼
►
there's five seconds no it wasn't it was
00:57:20
◼
►
it pretty early on I knew where this was
00:57:22
◼
►
going to yeah I I but the thing with
00:57:24
◼
►
black mirrors the most hoping against I
00:57:26
◼
►
know right ok pricey was obvious
00:57:28
◼
►
maybe they'll change it and it's just us
00:57:30
◼
►
as you watch you slowly realize that it
00:57:32
◼
►
doesn't look at turning away
00:57:33
◼
►
no not gonna it's like nope they can
00:57:35
◼
►
avoid it now not there there's actually
00:57:37
◼
►
it sounds it's like I said they're a lot
00:57:39
◼
►
of the I mean almost every episode has
00:57:41
◼
►
something interesting about it there or
00:57:43
◼
►
occurred with an idea and and too often
00:57:46
◼
►
it just takes the most obvious direct
00:57:49
◼
►
way of doing it or the simplest way of
00:57:51
◼
►
telling the story and you know there
00:57:53
◼
►
could be interesting ways of doing this
00:57:55
◼
►
if this had been 22 minutes
00:57:57
◼
►
yeah it's still going to be lousy but
00:58:00
◼
►
it's over quickly and it doesn't give
00:58:02
◼
►
you time to think about headphones which
00:58:04
◼
►
is like the fifth season Twilight zones
00:58:06
◼
►
hello it's a clunker