The Incomparable

337b: ...But Too Much


00:00:00   the Intolerable episode 338 7777 buddy

00:00:10   this is a bonus edition of the

00:00:12   incomparable I like to have our episodes

00:00:14   not be two and a half hours long and

00:00:16   sometimes that means i cut things out of

00:00:18   episodes because you know me

00:00:20   you've got time that you want to spend

00:00:22   on other things and two-and-a-half hour

00:00:24   long podcast is too long i think in most

00:00:26   cases but you know I don't want to judge

00:00:30   some people love as much as they can get

00:00:32   of anything we talked about and in this

00:00:34   case we talk about black mirror that was

00:00:36   what happened episode 337 and this is a

00:00:40   sub episode to that because basically we

00:00:42   talked for so long about every single

00:00:44   black mirror episode that it wasn't

00:00:46   gonna fit so instead what we did myself

00:00:49   John siracusa David lure brian hamilton

00:00:53   our conversation about black mirror the

00:00:58   eight episodes that we didn't like as

00:01:00   much as the five that we loved is going

00:01:03   to be put in this appendix episode so if

00:01:09   you want to hear us talk about more

00:01:10   episodes of black mirror here it is

00:01:13   I will warn you if we haven't talked

00:01:16   about your favorite episode yet in the

00:01:18   main show it means we didn't like it as

00:01:20   much as the other five so be prepared if

00:01:25   you're a big fan of white bear you're

00:01:28   going to be disappointed with what we

00:01:30   think of it but hey it's fun

00:01:32   everybody gets to have their own opinion

00:01:34   thank you for listening to be

00:01:35   uncomfortable and enjoy the rest of

00:01:38   black mirror the national anthem was

00:01:41   episode 1 of series 1 a black mirror

00:01:44   this famously is the episode that

00:01:47   involves basically tech a day an

00:01:51   anarchist blackmails the there

00:01:56   the Prime Minister of England into

00:01:58   having sex with a pig on us on live TV

00:02:03   or he'll kill a princess and this got

00:02:07   the news when it was reported last year

00:02:10   that the prime minister of bread

00:02:12   David Cameron was a in a secret society

00:02:15   in college that apparently had an

00:02:18   initiation ritual slightly related to

00:02:21   the plot of this purpose would but the

00:02:24   idea here is that you know using using

00:02:27   modern media techniques they escalate

00:02:30   the pressure on the prime minister to do

00:02:33   a egg to commit an unspeakable act in

00:02:36   public and and shame himself and there's

00:02:38   this question of like what can they do

00:02:40   and will you will you give in to the

00:02:43   demands of this terrorist or anarchist

00:02:45   or will you not what people think very

00:02:49   grimy episode made me feel gross

00:02:51   watching it I if it was so sort of such

00:02:57   a grim view of everything involved it

00:03:00   just set the tone for the series and

00:03:01   submit one of the things that maybe not

00:03:03   come back to her for a long time was

00:03:04   like yeah I see what they're doing there

00:03:06   that's fine like this theme for me for a

00:03:09   lot of black mirror is I feel like

00:03:11   everybody's seen it before or already

00:03:13   know what they're gonna tell me and have

00:03:15   learned this lesson and don't need to

00:03:16   learn it again and it's not you know you

00:03:19   mentioned in this lack earlier the like

00:03:21   maybe you've seen too much sci-fi now I

00:03:24   think it's like most adults who are even

00:03:28   remotely enter the sort of you know this

00:03:30   kind of genre fiction have seen these

00:03:33   things before and the national anthem

00:03:35   was like you've seen this before

00:03:36   we'll make it a little bit more grimy

00:03:38   and gross and and have it be ripped from

00:03:40   the headlines and I was just not

00:03:41   interested right

00:03:46   didn't watch it have too many problems

00:03:47   with the premises ok David yeah I'm

00:03:51   pretty much with john i saw it years and

00:03:55   years ago and kinda went yeah okay you

00:03:58   want to be read certainly but you need

00:04:00   to be a better writer and then the whole

00:04:02   David Cameron thinking about you go

00:04:04   mmm he knows something but it's you know

00:04:09   I've enjoyed charlie brooker before this

00:04:11   has a comedian and a panel show host on

00:04:15   BBC radio and he goes to an acid black

00:04:19   show called so wrong it's right which is

00:04:22   about horrible horrible stories so it

00:04:25   made sense when it was like oh this is

00:04:27   charlie brooker writing fiction but

00:04:30   then-then isn't fiction

00:04:32   yeah it's not as much friction as we

00:04:34   thought I didn't I think this one is

00:04:36   fine myself I i literally I have it in

00:04:39   the eye I put them all in order and this

00:04:41   is literally in the middle it is it

00:04:43   isn't number 713 on my list and I have

00:04:47   it as I i divided my black mirror

00:04:50   episodes into three camps which is I

00:04:52   liked it

00:04:53   I I appreciate it but I have some real

00:04:55   problems with it and I hate it and this

00:04:57   is this leads the i appreciated but I

00:04:59   have some real problems that it's dark

00:05:01   there parts of that I don't like but

00:05:03   what I did like about it is that it

00:05:05   takes its premise and and this is true

00:05:07   for a lot of black mare episodes it

00:05:08   takes its premise and it explores it

00:05:10   thoroughly

00:05:11   I feel like it explores the

00:05:12   ramifications of what this is to an

00:05:17   extreme like every little bit of it and

00:05:19   i actually like the way this one ends

00:05:22   because it ends darkly but also with a

00:05:27   an optimism about the public that it

00:05:32   turns out is not present in almost any

00:05:34   other episode where Prime Minister goes

00:05:37   through with this the the princess is

00:05:39   released and we view you know down the

00:05:42   road a little bit there's a flat they're

00:05:44   sort of a time gap and that he is a he

00:05:47   still prime minister and he's still

00:05:48   popular but his wife despises him

00:05:52   basically so that's that's a little dark

00:05:54   twist but i thought wow they didn't you

00:05:56   know show him like as a as a

00:05:59   a drunk in an alleyway drinking out of a

00:06:01   bottle and a paper bag like thick that

00:06:03   it could have been darker and it turns

00:06:05   out every other episode is pretty much

00:06:06   darker than than that but but i did i

00:06:09   did like that and and and what it says

00:06:11   about like the political calculations

00:06:12   and and being in public and and if

00:06:15   somebody makes an outrageous demand your

00:06:17   you're a public figure I just I mean

00:06:18   that basic premise of what if this

00:06:21   happened what would what would the

00:06:22   result be and it moves through every

00:06:25   step along the way I like that about it

00:06:27   but it's not someone that I think I

00:06:29   would want to revisit ever

00:06:30   it's okay Brian you don't need to watch

00:06:34   that 1i have so many opinions about that

00:06:36   i'm not going to say anything because I

00:06:37   have not watched it all right subtree I

00:06:40   want bacon

00:06:41   I just I don't know get outdated get uh

00:06:43   yeah us in him so let's move on to the

00:06:49   second episode of the first series which

00:06:50   was called 15 million merits this is an

00:06:54   episode about people this this is like

00:06:58   the far future dystopia episode in a way

00:07:02   which is there are people and all they

00:07:04   do all day is like right exercise bikes

00:07:07   in order to generate power and they get

00:07:08   they get you know electronic currency

00:07:11   that they can use to buy things and the

00:07:13   only way out of this you know bicycling

00:07:16   job of theirs is to become a contestant

00:07:20   on a reality talent show

00:07:23   so you know it's kind of a broad premise

00:07:25   and we meet a we meet a nice young man

00:07:28   named being who who is a who overhears a

00:07:35   woman singing and thinks that she could

00:07:37   try out for the reality singing show and

00:07:41   cleanser his or gives her his his

00:07:44   credits that he inherited and she wins

00:07:48   on the show in a terrible way where they

00:07:50   decide that they don't want her to be a

00:07:51   singer they wanted to be a porn star and

00:07:54   it's either that or back to the bicycle

00:07:57   and so she accepts and then he is sort

00:08:00   of destroyed by watching this happen

00:08:02   saves up to be on the talent show

00:08:06   himself decides to tell them all off

00:08:09   threatens to kill himself

00:08:11   and of course in the in the dark twist

00:08:14   they appreciate his threatening to get

00:08:17   killed himself while ranting about how

00:08:19   unfair the world is and hire him to do

00:08:21   that same thing every week on television

00:08:24   that's a 15 million merits Brian would

00:08:28   you think about this one

00:08:30   you know honestly despite all the fat

00:08:33   phobia ableism and terrible treatment of

00:08:35   women i still have this episode you know

00:08:39   the fact that the fat phobia is part of

00:08:41   the satire though i would argue in this

00:08:43   one I think that that is I think that I

00:08:46   that's how I read that one is that that

00:08:47   is that is not we're not supposed to be

00:08:50   laughing at that that is part of the

00:08:51   horrible world that they live in that

00:08:55   there's like initially awful character

00:08:56   that's in there yeah i agree but at the

00:08:59   same time the fact that they're putting

00:09:00   all the stuff into the show and the fact

00:09:03   that it ends with this weird commentary

00:09:05   about you know consumerism and the whole

00:09:10   suicide thing what bothers me the most

00:09:12   is that I don't think that was worth all

00:09:16   the other terrible stuff that happened

00:09:17   to me episode that ending and that

00:09:19   character was not worth us having to

00:09:22   watch the terrible things happen

00:09:24   well David step back and look at any of

00:09:29   it oh I i I've got like eight windows

00:09:31   open here because i'm running a podcast

00:09:34   I don't have time to chat sorry I'm back

00:09:37   I'm back every no idea what you've said

00:09:38   all right three minutes John so this

00:09:43   this episode I had some hope for the

00:09:46   show after like all going to come back

00:09:47   to the show up the first terrible

00:09:49   episode and like all right there's some

00:09:50   interesting premise here I thought a

00:09:52   little bit looked a little bit low

00:09:53   budget like with the exercise bikes and

00:09:55   little room there in heaven they had

00:09:56   some interesting ideas but the problem

00:09:59   was is it was like let's put a bunch of

00:10:03   humans few of which have like our

00:10:07   current modern-day sensibilities in an

00:10:10   absurdly awful situation that is

00:10:12   unexplained and that they're that every

00:10:15   every human in this people on the bikes

00:10:18   the people sweeping up behind them the

00:10:19   judges are on the the reality show the

00:10:22   audience on the reality show the stars

00:10:24   of there

00:10:25   holiday show every single one of those

00:10:27   people isn't in a miserable situation

00:10:29   for unexplained reasons and I they move

00:10:33   from one miserable situation for

00:10:35   unexplained reasons to another measure

00:10:36   and all the medical situations like oh

00:10:37   you have to open your eyes and watch ads

00:10:39   oh you the only way out of this grind of

00:10:42   exercise bike is going to reality show

00:10:43   oh you are a terrible person in the

00:10:45   audience laughing at people and being

00:10:47   cruel all your star of the show and

00:10:49   you're you're alone and you have your

00:10:51   glass shard in a little case and

00:10:52   everything every one of those people

00:10:54   miserable

00:10:54   why are they miserable who is making

00:10:56   them miserable is this a misery of their

00:10:58   own created like me there is no

00:10:59   explanation in their miserable in

00:11:00   different ways and it's like so the

00:11:02   lesson is you're always going to be

00:11:03   miserable in that no matter what because

00:11:05   the writers are going to make every

00:11:06   single facet of this new reality

00:11:08   miserable for reasons that you won't

00:11:10   explain it was just the whole show felt

00:11:12   miserable despite the fact that I think

00:11:13   they had concentrated on one or two

00:11:15   aspects of it that you could you can

00:11:17   have a dystopia but I want there to be

00:11:19   some reason that SOB came to be other is

00:11:23   just that they felt like they were all

00:11:24   hemmed in by the writer so and then have

00:11:27   the greatest one big thumbs down

00:11:29   David yeah i'm i'm right there with you

00:11:33   it's it was you you need something and

00:11:38   and I hate watching things where it's

00:11:39   literally the writers did this because

00:11:42   the writers wanted to do it i have that

00:11:44   problem with Sherlock two things happen

00:11:46   because Moffitt and marketers want them

00:11:48   to happen and this was very much the

00:11:50   same way it's it's interesting to look

00:11:53   at their there are a lot of interesting

00:11:54   ideas but there's just no there's no

00:11:58   hook to it there's no point so I this is

00:12:04   this one is in my top half and toward

00:12:06   the bottom but it's in my top half

00:12:08   I i like the little opinions I I yeah I

00:12:10   like it for what it is which is I think

00:12:12   that the world they yet why is that just

00:12:15   hope you you know again the matrix

00:12:18   powering using people as batteries also

00:12:21   doesn't make any sense i'm going to let

00:12:22   it i'm going to make sense that

00:12:23   machine's want to kill humans and make

00:12:25   sense there is a subjugated and as

00:12:26   subjugate or but in this episode's just

00:12:29   why are there coupons but why are there

00:12:31   people on exercise bikes at it because

00:12:32   it's a method of control or something

00:12:34   like that but who's controlling them but

00:12:36   everybody

00:12:36   mr. but purely as purely again purely as

00:12:40   a as a metaphor i enjoyed the I the

00:12:46   mechanics of earning the merits and of

00:12:49   being trying to be generous

00:12:51   I appreciate the fact that any belief we

00:12:54   have that this that the work this world

00:12:57   could be even remotely good or fair is

00:13:00   ripped away with what happens to a be in

00:13:04   when she appears onstage I love as a max

00:13:08   headroom fan from way back i love the

00:13:10   the detail that you can not only can you

00:13:13   not turn off the TV but you must watch

00:13:17   it and it will if you close your eyes it

00:13:19   knows and it will let you until you open

00:13:22   your eyes and look at what it's showing

00:13:24   you which on max headroom make it

00:13:25   through like a blanket over the TV they

00:13:27   always were on but you could cover them

00:13:29   and in this they know everything about

00:13:30   you i thought that was a really nice bit

00:13:32   that will that will come to stick with

00:13:34   me and you know as ridiculous as it is

00:13:38   where he threatens to kill himself and

00:13:40   they and they applauded him and say you

00:13:43   can do that every week it and it is

00:13:47   ridiculous

00:13:48   like I said was toward the bottom of my

00:13:50   of my top app but I i did like the the

00:13:54   weird bittersweetness of him basically

00:13:57   living in a penthouse being able to look

00:14:00   at big windows into the outside world

00:14:01   and drink fresh orange juice as an

00:14:05   example of just how bizarre and an

00:14:08   unfair this whole society is and more

00:14:10   importantly that his rebellion his act

00:14:13   of rebellion is is completely co-opted

00:14:15   and I I kind of enjoy opted by who

00:14:18   nobody will ever see by the system

00:14:20   manual about the system yet can't

00:14:22   there's there's not even a hint of the

00:14:24   system install yy-you sorry it makes me

00:14:27   angry because like that is but I don't

00:14:29   think our that new but there's a lot of

00:14:31   them in there you can make a good show

00:14:32   about the have you have to watch ads

00:14:34   right you could even make a good show

00:14:36   about the reality show and about you can

00:14:38   make a good show about the futility of

00:14:39   rebellion but surrounding them you need

00:14:42   you need a system and some antagonists

00:14:45   and a power structure there's no power

00:14:47   structure the power structure is writers

00:14:48   at the top

00:14:49   everybody in the show at the back yeah

00:14:53   yeah I mean there's no big brother

00:14:54   there's no zig zag corporation there's

00:14:56   there's just nothing opposing all of it

00:14:59   it's just happening

00:15:00   Charlie Brooker is the ruler of the

00:15:03   society let's move on to number three

00:15:05   how about that the entire history of you

00:15:08   1i have one more thing to say about this

00:15:10   episode of Brian go for it

00:15:12   contrary to all of that I believe that

00:15:16   getting rid of any sort of Big Brother

00:15:18   any overarching thing was the most

00:15:20   interesting part of this episode to me

00:15:22   as much as I hated the episode for all

00:15:23   the other reasons including suicide

00:15:25   which i completely forgot about earlier

00:15:26   i really enjoyed the fact that it was up

00:15:28   to me as the audience to populate

00:15:31   everything else was happening above the

00:15:33   people on the bikes and honestly I

00:15:34   thought that they were living

00:15:36   underground of our society today and

00:15:39   that they were the ones powering some

00:15:41   aspect of our society with their bikes

00:15:43   which I thought was really interesting

00:15:44   and if that's not the show at all that's

00:15:46   just something that came to my mind as I

00:15:48   was watching trying to make sense of all

00:15:49   this which is again later that should

00:15:51   not be put on me the audience but I

00:15:53   still thought it was interesting that of

00:15:55   all the things they chose to show and

00:15:56   subject us to that was the one thing

00:15:58   they got rid of but when your head Canon

00:16:01   is more interesting than the thing

00:16:02   you're watching that's a problem with

00:16:04   the thing you're watching

00:16:05   I don't entirely agree with that just

00:16:07   because I don't think it always matters

00:16:08   not everything has to flesh out the

00:16:10   entire world above it I was ok with in I

00:16:12   mean I i get that for some people to it

00:16:15   has to be that way but it didn't bother

00:16:16   me but it was just too much like i was

00:16:19   saying like I i if we'd only seen the

00:16:21   people on the bicycle or only senior it

00:16:23   like it but they showed us every aspect

00:16:25   of everything but there is no unseen

00:16:27   part as far as where they showed up so

00:16:28   much of the world that that's why i end

00:16:30   up with like the big flat world where

00:16:31   birds mr. Bowlen just the writers of the

00:16:33   top pulling the strings whereas if they

00:16:35   had showed less then you then you all

00:16:37   you have left is headcanon I'm fine with

00:16:39   that like when they're intentionally

00:16:40   withholding and it's like we're just

00:16:42   going to show you this aspect and you're

00:16:43   not going to know what the Bob I just

00:16:45   feel like they showed us too much right

00:16:46   we don't need to know Big Brother we

00:16:48   don't need any detailed big brother but

00:16:50   we need to know that there is one

00:16:51   yeah I suppose that's true but you mean

00:16:53   the judges of the reality show don't run

00:16:54   the let me my out because they're

00:16:56   they're clearly this is horrible days

00:16:58   they are you

00:16:58   rebellion idea they are also miserable

00:17:01   which is a kind of a nice touch i

00:17:02   enjoyed that

00:17:03   alright the entire history of you is an

00:17:05   episode in which people's everything

00:17:07   people see is recorded and accessible so

00:17:09   you have perfect memory and it can be

00:17:11   played back to other people and the

00:17:14   implications of that and i think this is

00:17:16   a this is a another good example of

00:17:19   taking a taking a premise and then ring

00:17:23   a whole bunch of problematic

00:17:25   interpersonal and social implications

00:17:27   out of perfect replayable memory and it

00:17:32   and it involves the dissolution of a

00:17:36   marriage so what people what people

00:17:39   think of this one

00:17:40   David of of the first three in the first

00:17:44   season this would be my favorite mine

00:17:47   take is it

00:17:48   yeah well and see you know earlier in

00:17:51   slack i said okay i don't know your list

00:17:53   but I see the ratios i think i know

00:17:55   which ones I think we like the same ones

00:17:58   this this is just an interesting story

00:18:01   well told and with it with a devastating

00:18:05   payoff and it doesn't it doesn't overdo

00:18:09   it doesn't belabor it just it's exactly

00:18:12   right Dave sorry i was doing tom

00:18:17   I think it's very well in terms of

00:18:19   structuring the story and the characters

00:18:21   and everything but the tech the tech was

00:18:22   pretty cool but when it comes down to it

00:18:24   this was a crappy person using tech

00:18:26   crappily and you can make this story

00:18:28   with twitter or text messages or

00:18:30   anything right now and I don't know if

00:18:32   what the show did again was worth the

00:18:35   the emotional turmoil at the characters

00:18:39   in the audience were put through because

00:18:40   of the fact that the tech was so minimal

00:18:42   well the world part but because this

00:18:44   this is where the show works for me

00:18:47   because the tech is important you know

00:18:49   you need the tech for the story but the

00:18:51   characters are what you're watching and

00:18:54   and broker does not always care about

00:18:56   the characters he is he's very into the

00:18:58   tech in a lot of the shows and this is

00:19:01   one where it's all it works for me

00:19:03   and unlike some black mare episodes that

00:19:05   this in this one the tech exists

00:19:09   to bring out an implication of our

00:19:11   social interactions and it actually

00:19:15   reminded me a little bit of the

00:19:17   invention of lying the regular basis

00:19:19   movie which is the you know which is a

00:19:21   it's got its own problems but the same

00:19:24   idea is here because the entire history

00:19:25   of you is about how there are if you can

00:19:30   see everything that happened and

00:19:31   remember everything that happened

00:19:33   it's not necessarily a good thing in

00:19:35   fact we lie and omit and miss remember

00:19:40   and forget and it's one of the things

00:19:42   that allows society and personal

00:19:45   relationships to function and that if

00:19:47   your idealistic and say no if everybody

00:19:49   told the truth or if everything that you

00:19:51   ever did could be checked that the world

00:19:53   would be a better place and this is

00:19:55   broker saying really what it and I

00:19:57   appreciated that about it to that it

00:19:59   that is that's what ultimately what it's

00:20:01   about is what destroys this relationship

00:20:05   is I mean yeah it's jealousy and there's

00:20:08   some infidelity and all these other

00:20:09   things mixed in there but ultimately

00:20:11   it's about a lack of trust and the

00:20:14   ability to prove or disprove everything

00:20:16   in the world and you know I appreciate

00:20:18   that about it like the first to have

00:20:20   some really good satirical points and

00:20:24   and really sharp things to say about the

00:20:26   tech or about the politics or reality TV

00:20:30   or whatever

00:20:31   this one is actually a story about

00:20:32   people yeah and it's it's something that

00:20:34   we could live we can see ourselves going

00:20:37   through the story John really isn't that

00:20:40   outlandish

00:20:42   so I am I really complained about that

00:20:44   again everything the same except one

00:20:46   piece of technology extended out

00:20:48   ridiculously and the implications they

00:20:50   would come from the existence of that

00:20:51   technology totally ignored because if

00:20:54   you could do that you could do so many

00:20:55   other things but like now we just want

00:20:57   to talk about this but i'm willing to

00:20:59   mostly forgive that because i like David

00:21:01   said this is episode about characters

00:21:03   you could have this episode about slow

00:21:06   dawning realization of infidelity you

00:21:08   can have a sudden 1800 and it would

00:21:10   still be good if done well right and the

00:21:13   technology angle is what makes us a

00:21:14   blackberry episodes like here is here

00:21:18   here is that the black mirror twist on

00:21:20   it is that at in the way you've seen the

00:21:22   story told before with the ways that you

00:21:24   can realize infidelity is happening here

00:21:26   is a new way to both make a realization

00:21:30   about it and obsess over both of which

00:21:32   happened in the in regular life and have

00:21:35   for millennia like all that stuff

00:21:37   happens and when it happens always the

00:21:40   people who are doing it are using the

00:21:41   tools of the time this is showing us

00:21:43   imagine if there was another tool and

00:21:45   like Grayson said you know that the

00:21:47   implications of being of having more

00:21:48   information available this is not that

00:21:51   big of an extension from you know

00:21:53   Facebook stalking your ex or obsessing

00:21:56   over text messages or looking at old

00:21:58   pictures I mean just looking at old

00:22:00   pictures with the thing that you

00:22:01   couldn't do before photography because

00:22:03   you're maybe you had an old painting but

00:22:05   if you're rich but that's about it right

00:22:07   so I you know I i would give this one a

00:22:10   pass on the that the sci-fi trap of

00:22:13   extending one technology leave

00:22:14   everything else the same because I

00:22:16   enjoyed watching it for the characters

00:22:18   and the story and i think it passes the

00:22:20   minimum bar for sci-fi ish anthology

00:22:23   show it with a dim view of these

00:22:26   particular characters and I also think

00:22:28   like this one pulls back a little bit i

00:22:31   mean it's I stuff like it's trying to

00:22:33   say if we have this tech this is what's

00:22:36   gonna happen to everybody and I don't

00:22:37   like that but I'm willing to headcanon

00:22:39   it back into a narrower story and say

00:22:41   this is a story about these characters

00:22:43   and it played out so definitely my

00:22:44   favorite of the first season

00:22:45   head-and-shoulders about who I'm okay

00:22:48   I'm okay with it because i think the

00:22:50   implication and this is actually the

00:22:51   biggest problem i have with it is this

00:22:53   is this is also about how this guy

00:22:55   is awful I mean it exists driven to it

00:23:00   but it's like the tech isn't the reason

00:23:01   this happens he's the reason this

00:23:03   happens

00:23:04   yeah you feel like the show is blaming

00:23:05   attack it's like now no not that I mean

00:23:08   he would also be the facebook stalker

00:23:09   like Matt this to this so many weekend

00:23:12   1800 be waiting outside the tavern for

00:23:15   you to leave he can let the fact that

00:23:17   that an old boyfriend of his wife is our

00:23:19   is there he could let it go entirely and

00:23:22   he doesn't and that leads to a spiral

00:23:24   that leads to disaster but a more

00:23:26   confident emotionally balanced human

00:23:29   being would let it go right and it's

00:23:32   like the tekkit just enables the spiral

00:23:34   but he's the reason why i should mention

00:23:36   this is the only episode of black mirror

00:23:38   that is not does not contain a charlie

00:23:40   brooker writing credit at all it is just

00:23:42   the Armstrongs episode so and you guys

00:23:44   are really funny i like this the least

00:23:46   of three of the first season but I still

00:23:48   thought it was fine i think i thought it

00:23:49   was fine i thought it was fine I i find

00:23:52   i find the last half very difficult to

00:23:55   watch and that's what pushed it down the

00:23:57   the emotional abuse her know that

00:24:00   happens as well as the violence as a man

00:24:03   comes completely on board and does a

00:24:05   sequence of just parentally awful things

00:24:08   i find i found really really difficult

00:24:11   to watch and again the expectations that

00:24:13   black mirror sets for being a show about

00:24:15   tech made the ending fall flat for me

00:24:18   because there really wasn't much of that

00:24:19   and as so often happens on the

00:24:21   incomparable this discussion is really

00:24:22   making me want to go back and re-watch

00:24:24   it as a character drama with tech any

00:24:27   and not a text story with some drama in

00:24:30   it what stood out to me the most about

00:24:31   this episode was when they're having sex

00:24:33   while playing back memories of better

00:24:36   sex and that was the one that really hit

00:24:38   music oh ok thats that's where the shows

00:24:40   going to go now okay and that turned me

00:24:43   off from the rest of the show if i can

00:24:44   remove that from my mind and re-watch it

00:24:46   with this new lens of this is a better

00:24:49   written drama that's not run by Charlie

00:24:50   Booker i'll give it another shot once

00:24:52   i'm a little bit more emotionally stable

00:24:54   after the sponge hashtag premier to and

00:24:57   and the and the amazing thing about that

00:25:00   those you know how many times has that

00:25:02   happened where you do start replaying in

00:25:04   your mind

00:25:05   this can literally replay it for you in

00:25:08   perfect detail and it adds forever and

00:25:11   is yeah okay let's talk about white bear

00:25:17   so in white bear a woman wakes up and

00:25:22   doesn't remember who she is and goes

00:25:24   outside and there are a bunch of people

00:25:26   just standing around looking at their

00:25:28   phones and watching and recording her

00:25:30   and people try to kill her and she runs

00:25:32   around and people try to kill her some

00:25:34   more and she runs around and lady says

00:25:39   we need to go to the transmitter because

00:25:41   that will stop people trying to kill us

00:25:42   and they take her there and it's

00:25:45   revealed that the transmitter is

00:25:46   actually the stage of a kind of reality

00:25:49   TV said would be where they're uh

00:25:51   they're doing a show about punishing

00:25:54   murderers by having them feel the fear

00:25:59   that their victims had and that she

00:26:02   actually with her boyfriend or husband

00:26:06   or whoever cat kidnapped a little girl

00:26:09   and he killed her and so she now is

00:26:12   sentenced to relive this day over and

00:26:15   over again that's white bear i have

00:26:19   opinions about this but I want to hear

00:26:21   yours first

00:26:22   Ryan this had the potential to be my

00:26:26   favorite black mirror episode because my

00:26:28   history with the show was I watched 15

00:26:30   million merits first stopped watching

00:26:32   and then once everyone started talking

00:26:34   about San junipero i decide to jump back

00:26:36   in and started with white bear which was

00:26:37   one that somebody recommended to me and

00:26:40   it has potential to be my favorite

00:26:42   because I really thought that the show

00:26:44   needed some kind of intensity without

00:26:47   emotional abuse and i'm really into

00:26:50   horror movies i'm really into this kind

00:26:52   of it seemed post-apocalyptic almost up

00:26:54   through the very end and it was

00:26:56   well-made well-acted well everything

00:26:58   like we already said about the entire

00:26:59   series but then the ending the ending

00:27:04   just threw everything that I loved about

00:27:07   that episode away and restored faith in

00:27:10   the fact that blackberry is not a show

00:27:11   for me there are some episodes a black

00:27:14   mirror where the big reveal is that

00:27:16   everybody that we've sort of been

00:27:17   going for is terrible and they deserve

00:27:19   everything that you've seen them get and

00:27:21   you shouldn't feel bad for them and i

00:27:23   find this kind of a frustrating and

00:27:25   questionable decision but it's one that

00:27:30   they keep making so i guess they think

00:27:31   it's really great to do that so in this

00:27:33   case you know this woman who seems like

00:27:35   the victim is revealed to have been a an

00:27:37   accomplice in the kidnapping and murder

00:27:40   of a little girl and so we you know

00:27:42   wherever we're witnessing her you know

00:27:45   torture as justice essentially yeah John

00:27:50   Charlie introduction so black mirror it

00:27:53   is like a collection of things you

00:27:56   shouldn't do I stories and so this isn't

00:28:00   this episode is of the the genre where

00:28:03   I'm going to make a story sci-fi story

00:28:07   or any start really what happens live on

00:28:08   syfy where I'm going to pretend the

00:28:12   human nature has changed so radically

00:28:14   that the entire world is entirely on

00:28:18   board with the repeated incredibly cruel

00:28:21   torture of this admitted you know killer

00:28:23   our accomplice to murder or whatever and

00:28:26   they're cheery about it and they bring

00:28:28   their kids and isn't that super dark and

00:28:31   terrible and it's like that's not what

00:28:33   human beings are like I you like that is

00:28:37   a ridiculous premise especially when its

00:28:39   unsupported just be the surrounding

00:28:42   hellscape you know Carrie pig's blood

00:28:45   nightmare for who

00:28:46   someone who turns out to be a murderer

00:28:47   like all those people like it there

00:28:50   there there and filming and they're so

00:28:51   like there's not enough psychos in the

00:28:53   world to fill those slots in that thing

00:28:56   and the idea that it is a happy

00:28:58   important part of a functioning Society

00:29:00   is absurd

00:29:02   yeah it only exists to further heighten

00:29:04   the you know the the horror of like I

00:29:08   can't imagine if I was in that situation

00:29:09   and then as Jason said the final thing

00:29:11   which i think is probably not a unique

00:29:13   black mera twist a signature move of

00:29:17   saying well guess what that person was

00:29:18   terrible too so so you have fake people

00:29:20   who act like humans would never act for

00:29:22   inexplicable reasons and your heroes

00:29:24   terrible to the end and was screaming

00:29:28   yeah David yep yep

00:29:31   yeah what if black mirror but even but

00:29:35   too much

00:29:36   uh yeah this is this is a dub almost I

00:29:40   don't know its worst are tied for worst

00:29:43   I i hated this I let me use the way

00:29:45   we're here

00:29:46   I despise this episode for lots of

00:29:49   reasons

00:29:50   um you know I despise this episode the

00:29:53   ok the yeah i mean first off it it feels

00:29:59   so artificial throughout I mean I get

00:30:01   that it is kinetic there's a lot of

00:30:03   action there's car chases and gunfire

00:30:05   and people running in a showdown at a

00:30:09   convenience store and all those things

00:30:10   and it's super creepy because it's like

00:30:12   as again post-apocalyptic is everybody's

00:30:14   sort of had their mind taken over by

00:30:16   this thing this beaming out that's

00:30:18   making them be like zombies and watching

00:30:20   or try to kill this lady that but i

00:30:25   found it unpleasant to watch and I

00:30:28   didn't really enjoy any but it seems

00:30:30   sick it is brian i don't like horror

00:30:32   movies so i can say no you i can see

00:30:34   that right cuz I don't like horror

00:30:35   movies is it just felt like that and

00:30:37   perhaps a competent one so I disliked it

00:30:39   already and then we get to the we get to

00:30:43   the twist which one first off I felt was

00:30:45   completely ridiculous and I and didn't

00:30:50   help my opinion of it that now what we

00:30:52   were actually watching is this

00:30:53   ridiculous kind of reality show the only

00:30:55   thing in this entire episode that i

00:30:57   actually liked was over the end credits

00:31:00   where it's like a production documentary

00:31:02   of how they make the White Bear the

00:31:04   trunk atrocity this is the White Bear

00:31:07   reality show that that made me laugh

00:31:09   because they're it's all of the

00:31:11   trappings of a TV shows electronic press

00:31:14   kit applied to this horrible thing and

00:31:17   that made me that made me chuckle

00:31:18   because that's not the only episode of

00:31:21   black mirror where I felt like this

00:31:22   little tidbit at the end should have

00:31:24   been the whole episode because that

00:31:26   would have been more cutting and instead

00:31:28   you know instead this feels like like

00:31:31   some movies that I've disliked over the

00:31:33   years trying to have their cake and eat

00:31:36   it too which is where really commenting

00:31:38   on this by doing the exact same thing

00:31:40   like now I don't think you get to do

00:31:42   both of those things so yeah I hated and

00:31:44   then was just so completely nullifies

00:31:46   the rest of the show because the only

00:31:48   thing of substance in the rest of the

00:31:50   show is build up to a twist at once you

00:31:52   know what it is that makes the rest of

00:31:54   the episode you said this is all fake

00:31:55   right it's all fake out so what you saw

00:31:57   was a fake you you're seeing a show of a

00:31:59   show that's fake there are really no

00:32:01   steaks what you're seeing is this woman

00:32:02   get terrified and you know did we really

00:32:04   i mean the only reason I related to her

00:32:07   is because she was in the opening scene

00:32:08   and we followed the camera followed her

00:32:10   but it's not like i emotionally

00:32:11   connected with her and then was shocked

00:32:13   when she was revealed to be a murderer

00:32:15   that didn't really happen i'm just

00:32:16   following her she runs right yeah if if

00:32:20   that in sequence had been the whole show

00:32:22   then you get to have a an hour of of

00:32:26   sharp cutting satire about justice

00:32:29   reality shows people's blood lust you

00:32:32   have all of that

00:32:33   instead you just have this little tiny

00:32:35   snippet that you go well and you never

00:32:38   want to see the rest of the episode

00:32:39   again because what's the point good

00:32:41   excuse for action sequences though which

00:32:42   is what they gave us

00:32:44   yeah yeah I'd like when it was started

00:32:46   when and that's the other thing the

00:32:49   episode was very easy to write the

00:32:51   ending was very tricky if that had been

00:32:54   the show it would have been trickier to

00:32:55   write but it would've been so much

00:32:57   better and wouldn't have been lazy

00:32:59   yeah well I'm starting to realize about

00:33:02   what I hate about black mirror is in

00:33:04   white bear and 15 million merits

00:33:06   especially the idea of public shaming

00:33:09   and this kind of disbelief in the public

00:33:12   to be any good and especially moments

00:33:15   where the public is you know gasps

00:33:17   lighted and convinced into believing

00:33:19   something by a larger organization

00:33:23   and we are put through the consequences

00:33:26   of that by seeing characters that we've

00:33:28   started to know and love put through

00:33:30   terrible things not just you know being

00:33:31   put through terrible things but in front

00:33:33   of a crowd cheering them on doing like

00:33:36   amplifying everything it's every single

00:33:38   pantsless giving a speech dream you've

00:33:40   had on TV multiple times which is weird

00:33:43   although i will point out one out there

00:33:44   is also an episode that i love that will

00:33:46   get to a black mirror that seems to take

00:33:48   the opposite tack which i find

00:33:50   interesting that it isn't arguing with

00:33:52   itself i don't know we'll get there

00:33:56   next is the waldo moment which has been

00:33:58   uh talked about a lot lately because I

00:34:01   wonder why it is about a puppet the

00:34:06   puppet nobody know but it is about a pre

00:34:09   atv kind of cgi animated like live on

00:34:14   the fly again a little like Max Headroom

00:34:16   actually although not really he was kind

00:34:19   of faked out but the idea of Max

00:34:21   Headroom which is it's a comedian is

00:34:23   working some equipment and creating this

00:34:25   computer-generated bear who appears on

00:34:29   TV and he runs four runs for a stands

00:34:35   for a by-election for the UK Parliament

00:34:37   is what happens and against the Tory and

00:34:40   and labor candidates and the enters the

00:34:46   debate and appears in a debate after

00:34:48   harassing the the it's a safe seat for

00:34:51   the Tories so here asses Tobias Menzies

00:34:53   who I enjoy in lots of things and he's

00:34:55   the inventory candidate and miss mr.

00:34:58   Monroe and and in the end it becomes a

00:35:03   viral sensation and Waldo the bear

00:35:07   becomes more and more popular and

00:35:10   meanwhile there's also a little side

00:35:11   plot where the CIA comes to them and

00:35:14   says this would be great to help us

00:35:16   overthrow other countries that's just in

00:35:19   there too

00:35:20   no that's the that's the Walter moment i

00:35:23   miss now mrs. now pay attention to me

00:35:25   I've opinions yes yes mr. Monroe the

00:35:30   fact that this episode is the one that

00:35:32   is least talked about right now

00:35:34   mmhmm yeah David I like bears

00:35:44   I'm just you know I like bears

00:35:47   uh-huh do you like waldo yeah yeah I

00:35:53   like a better than Trump John this one

00:35:59   on the suffers from a problem not

00:36:01   related to sci-fi which is the studio 60

00:36:03   on the Sunset Strip problem where did

00:36:06   you go

00:36:06   it's a show ostensibly about a comedy

00:36:08   show but the comedy show is never funny

00:36:09   so I see what this episode was going for

00:36:12   but waldo was dumb and not convincing

00:36:14   and so it undercuts I mean it's hard to

00:36:16   do it i granted it's hard to do and so I

00:36:19   think I kind of see what they were going

00:36:21   for and in what they wanted to say i

00:36:23   mean this this is this is not a trap but

00:36:26   this is just what is doing that sort of

00:36:28   moralizing like don't read on the public

00:36:30   is and how they can easily be swayed but

00:36:31   it's you know but it's sadly true but i

00:36:33   think this was a not great execution of

00:36:36   that ideas at waldos not that

00:36:37   interesting

00:36:38   the satire could have been more cutting

00:36:41   if it was like the angle the fact that

00:36:44   he cg and virtual is a person behind him

00:36:46   is not particularly interesting doesn't

00:36:50   add much but it's like it's the

00:36:51   obligatory sci-fi thing so I'd this this

00:36:53   episode i really like it but I certainly

00:36:55   didn't hate it so just kind of sits

00:36:57   there i put in the middle and about the

00:36:59   fact that but again it was the easiest

00:37:03   way of doing this story and so it was

00:37:06   like well alright now do something give

00:37:09   me twist you can you pick anything

00:37:11   Brian what i will say is that unlike

00:37:14   john i did like the fact that there was

00:37:16   a person behind Waldo in that his ark as

00:37:19   somebody who created this character and

00:37:21   then ending up somewhere where the

00:37:23   character completely outgrew him and

00:37:24   he's abandoned and drinking alone in the

00:37:26   middle of some country that's

00:37:27   unspecified I like that a lot

00:37:29   even though all the political commentary

00:37:31   was happening in the background again I

00:37:33   think like me shines the best when the

00:37:35   characters are front and center and

00:37:38   everything else happening around them

00:37:39   and I feel like this is the perfect

00:37:40   relationship between Waldo and his

00:37:42   creator but you could have the same

00:37:44   story without the the puppet

00:37:46   did like he creates the character but

00:37:48   like plays himself which i think would

00:37:49   be more accurate to politicians and

00:37:51   eventually the character of gross him

00:37:53   the problem is that he still trapped in

00:37:55   the character because of the same person

00:37:56   the fact that this was a CG thing that

00:37:58   could be taken over by another person

00:37:59   again is the sci-fi angle and like

00:38:01   you've made this creation but it's not

00:38:02   really you like I see where they're

00:38:03   going with that but it like that there

00:38:07   are better ways to tell the same story

00:38:08   that's been told it's been told better

00:38:11   and in other contexts the into twist in

00:38:13   the wall darkness doesn't add to it for

00:38:16   me I like the I like the fact that it's

00:38:19   a virtual character and I mean they're

00:38:21   trying to say something about sort of

00:38:22   viral videos and we've got every in a

00:38:24   late-night talk show host is trying to

00:38:25   generate viral videos and here's a

00:38:26   character who who kind of goes viral

00:38:29   accidentally but it squandered and I

00:38:32   have this in my it's this at the bottom

00:38:34   of my kind of mid rank of sort of like

00:38:36   you know it i like things about it but

00:38:39   it could have been way better like I

00:38:42   think the scene where this comedian who

00:38:46   kinda hates this character and is really

00:38:48   reluctant to push it and really

00:38:51   reluctant to be he feels he doesn't want

00:38:53   to talk about politics right he just

00:38:55   wants to tell his jokes and he meets

00:38:59   well he does more than meet the Labour

00:39:03   candidate when Paris right and he meets

00:39:08   her in a in a in a bar and they chat and

00:39:11   they go back to his room so I I feel

00:39:18   like that that their interaction was

00:39:20   really interesting and the idea that she

00:39:23   is running for a seat that she can't win

00:39:25   and the dynamics of that in terms of

00:39:27   politics at and that you know mr.

00:39:30   Munro's got in the bag and that's what I

00:39:32   really wish the episode had been about I

00:39:34   really wish the episode had spent more

00:39:36   time with that dynamic like what if you

00:39:39   know could although win could Waldo

00:39:41   sabotage mr. Munro's so that the Labour

00:39:45   candidate who maybe you know if she had

00:39:47   more beliefs which she doesn't and I

00:39:49   think that's kind of the the cynical

00:39:51   view of politics is probably accurate

00:39:53   that dead charlie brooker has I just

00:39:55   felt like I kinda wanted more of the

00:39:57   political stuff i was really surprised

00:39:59   that nope

00:39:59   point is there a thread about how it

00:40:02   comes out that the voice of waldo has

00:40:05   been romantically engaged with the

00:40:08   Labour candidate and that maybe this is

00:40:10   all just trying to sabotage Monroe I

00:40:13   figured that would be a plotline never

00:40:15   happens and in or is it threatened nor

00:40:18   does anybody threaten it which just

00:40:20   seemed kind of completely unrealistic to

00:40:22   me on top of anything else so it's like

00:40:24   and the CIA stuff is like from another

00:40:25   movie it's like from a from an extremely

00:40:28   hot rod kind of you know I don't know

00:40:32   men in black kind of movie it's just

00:40:34   completely out of left field so I feel

00:40:37   like there was a really brilliant

00:40:39   episode that might have been made using

00:40:41   all of these component parts except for

00:40:43   the CIA guy and then make it

00:40:46   well it's like an episode of chopped

00:40:48   about with TV show elements

00:40:50   ok sure we move on we just gave a big

00:40:54   net to the wall the moment

00:40:57   so speaking of trying to kill people

00:41:01   play test is next this is a an episode

00:41:04   in which an American backpacker who

00:41:06   travels around the world decides to sign

00:41:08   up for an NDA of a new augmented reality

00:41:12   game where they put an implant in your

00:41:14   brain and you see things that aren't

00:41:16   there and then he plays the game which

00:41:19   is a way to do lots of jump-scares that

00:41:22   are commented on but still are again we

00:41:26   comment on the tropes but we still use

00:41:27   the tropes and it goes horribly wrong or

00:41:31   does it or it does or does it or it does

00:41:34   or does it

00:41:35   this inferior was so much this this is

00:41:39   one that could have been 22 minutes and

00:41:41   done you just have to give the the title

00:41:44   and a one-sentence promising like I've

00:41:45   seen that before yeah yeah yeahs this

00:41:48   this was I mean I this is where

00:41:50   commander Riker keeps waking up in

00:41:52   different reality right it is same place

00:41:56   I think we've even seen it with video

00:41:58   game yeah the whole idea I'm but it's a

00:41:59   video game but but it goes too far like

00:42:02   in the video game becomes real and you

00:42:04   thought it was just a game but now there

00:42:06   are actual steaks and it turns out you

00:42:08   die and then the company on too far no

00:42:10   one will be seated dying the game you

00:42:12   die in real life no one will be saved

00:42:14   during the 2-minute long whack-a-mole

00:42:15   seen there is a welcome Elaine when when

00:42:19   when his phone rang early on and I went

00:42:23   that's an interesting detail that's

00:42:26   check on mom not we asked them right and

00:42:29   not a single show know when when it

00:42:32   played out exactly the way I thought

00:42:34   from that point on and and so my

00:42:36   fifteen-year-old watch this with me and

00:42:39   he said you guys are talking about this

00:42:41   show are they all this stupid oh my god

00:42:45   no they're not all dlc this is literally

00:42:48   the morning so these are brand-new

00:42:49   stupid this is the worst episode where I

00:42:51   think this is it that I don't think it

00:42:52   is here so I don't think this is the

00:42:53   worst one because it promises a again

00:42:57   it's got the technology would have

00:42:59   amazing implications that are not

00:43:00   reviewable whatever it this game company

00:43:02   has a goal to make a game and you know

00:43:05   this charismatic leader who wanted to do

00:43:07   this thing and it's super dangerous and

00:43:09   they are evil and evil company that is

00:43:11   suffering people in to these tests on

00:43:13   that are dangerous and cause them to die

00:43:15   but you don't that it's not like and

00:43:19   guess what

00:43:20   all humans like that now you like this

00:43:22   company is like that right that's an

00:43:24   evil corporation is the antagonist and

00:43:25   the protagonist or whatever is a poor

00:43:27   person gets sucked into it i think it is

00:43:30   far less grimy and cynical and stupid

00:43:34   and over reaching the other episodes it

00:43:38   is straight down the middle

00:43:40   exactly what it's going to be it never

00:43:42   surprises you it is pretty boring and

00:43:44   that's why i hate it i can't put it on

00:43:45   the bottom is it doesn't make me like

00:43:47   that angry and it's like well yeah I'd

00:43:49   say it's lack of ambition is why i hate

00:43:51   it i I think it's just garbage i think

00:43:52   it I think it is everything that black

00:43:54   mirror should be satirizing which is

00:43:56   it's just

00:43:56   yes it's just kinda it's obvious and

00:43:59   it's garbage and and you know I i

00:44:01   thought this was in the bottom couple of

00:44:04   episodes for me and then there's the

00:44:05   final twist which i have now read in a

00:44:08   couple different places was added

00:44:10   because the director thought it would be

00:44:11   cool to add yet another twist twist

00:44:14   where he wakes up an extra time and it

00:44:17   turns out that he's dying because his

00:44:19   mom is calling and that was not

00:44:21   originally in the script originally in

00:44:23   the script is going to go through all

00:44:24   the horror and then he was going to wake

00:44:26   up and it turns out that was it and he

00:44:28   was he was done with his test and

00:44:30   they're like no no we can put in extra

00:44:31   twist like well okay I kind of hated

00:44:34   that too but um you know it was before

00:44:38   it was like he goes back in his mom is a

00:44:40   is the reason his mom's been calling is

00:44:43   that she's got Alzheimer's basically and

00:44:45   she's very confused and doesn't

00:44:47   recognize him and he's been running away

00:44:49   from this the whole time and you realize

00:44:51   that you know I thought that was it

00:44:53   ok ending and the other end try to do a

00:44:55   little bit of character building for

00:44:56   this character whose is death marking

00:44:58   late great line starting late

00:45:01   yeah and also black mare really likes

00:45:03   this is the the sci-fi trope of that

00:45:07   time is different for fast computers

00:45:09   like this

00:45:10   the sweet dreams things like seconds

00:45:12   right and they did it they did it with

00:45:14   that with the Christmas 12 and it's like

00:45:16   I like that idea it's done inside for a

00:45:19   lot and I think I like stories that are

00:45:21   built around that but they just sprinkle

00:45:22   it on is like some you know it's

00:45:24   officially missing dash on top drilling

00:45:25   I missed you know this this baloney

00:45:28   sandwich an episode like I think

00:45:31   and speaking of amazing stories like

00:45:33   amazing stories had a lot of straight up

00:45:34   the middle ones too but they were so

00:45:36   sort of innocent like the ud and forgive

00:45:38   their naiveté but this doesn't fit

00:45:40   enjoying don't don't don't make me ruin

00:45:43   your childhood by telling you how bad

00:45:44   amazing stories family was right now I

00:45:46   don't get right yeah but like it's not

00:45:49   forgiven for being like a kid's show and

00:45:51   this is like it was not a kids show and

00:45:53   it is supposed to be a horror game and

00:45:55   it's part of black mirror yeah yeah we

00:45:58   need to serve in retaliation for real

00:45:59   genius again 22 minutes

00:46:02   you wouldn't notice it would be fine

00:46:04   help at 50 well but at 54 you notice the

00:46:07   12 twist at the end rewrite minutes we

00:46:10   absolutely absolutely it would still be

00:46:12   a bad episode but at 22 minutes you

00:46:14   don't have that whole long protracted

00:46:16   travel montage and the date

00:46:19   yeah yeah and then I don't like the day

00:46:22   I come on like tuesday better than

00:46:23   anything in the actual plot

00:46:25   yeah yeah yeah i forgot I was even in

00:46:28   there was like a regular yeah just move

00:46:30   in

00:46:31   well yeah you've got like that vaguely

00:46:33   interesting idea that is done as simply

00:46:37   and conventionally as possible

00:46:39   where is if you have a story better game

00:46:41   manufacturer trying to come up with a

00:46:44   game that will literally scare you to

00:46:45   death without killing you and then how

00:46:48   do they do that how do they walk up to

00:46:50   that edge there's an interesting idea

00:46:52   this is not it no this is a you know

00:46:55   slasher film basically yeah he really

00:46:58   didn't go far enough with the

00:46:59   personalized horror because all they do

00:47:01   know in high school bully

00:47:03   yeah oh you don't like what is well

00:47:05   here's a giant spider

00:47:06   yeah whatever whatever I mean they've

00:47:10   made a literal horror movie I can't hate

00:47:12   this episode but it is not that Graham

00:47:13   fair enough it's good solid shut up and

00:47:18   dance is next

00:47:19   shut up and dance is an episode in which

00:47:21   people are caught and compromising

00:47:24   because

00:47:24   captions by by their devices being

00:47:26   hacked so that they they can be recorded

00:47:29   and their messages can be read and then

00:47:31   they are told by a mysterious group that

00:47:34   only communicates and text messages to

00:47:36   do a various series of things that is a

00:47:40   Rube Goldberg and sort of series of

00:47:43   steps that lead to increasingly

00:47:45   ridiculous situations that they are

00:47:47   forced to comply with or everything

00:47:50   that's going to ruin their lives will be

00:47:52   revealed and I I gotta give it to black

00:47:56   mirror you know black mirror is a show

00:47:58   that tries to take a premise and run it

00:48:01   to its fullest and it does that here i

00:48:03   would argue that it perhaps runs it like

00:48:06   it runs off the cliff with its premise

00:48:09   and continues to run into the great yeah

00:48:11   but yeah yeah it's like it for a while

00:48:13   I'm like oh I'm kind of digging this and

00:48:15   shut up and dance words like it is he

00:48:17   gets a cake he's going to take a cake

00:48:18   somewhere OB think that that guy isn't

00:48:21   going to eat the cake

00:48:22   they're gonna wear who's gonna get the

00:48:23   cake what's going on with the cake and

00:48:25   then it just it and then it wears out

00:48:27   its welcome and becomes something that

00:48:30   is just yeah unpleasant but you know

00:48:32   where was going you'd seen enough black

00:48:34   mare at this point i do the beauty and I

00:48:36   be identifying with us here i get this

00:48:38   job i saw that i was hoping against hope

00:48:41   i'm watching this I'm like maybe they're

00:48:42   not doing what I think now they're doing

00:48:44   it i hope the twist is a twist on my

00:48:46   twisted metal I want you know I was

00:48:49   excited by that whole like what's gonna

00:48:50   happen next and go here and do that but

00:48:52   i cannot fend off the the sure knowledge

00:48:55   having watched the season opens up this

00:48:58   point of where this was going

00:48:59   and it just it just went there and

00:49:01   fizzled out to its and

00:49:03   and the moral of the story is haha and

00:49:05   and the whole time I'm watching it all I

00:49:08   could think of was the blackmail sketch

00:49:11   for Monty Python's Flying Circus and

00:49:13   Michael Palin hosting a game show called

00:49:15   blackmail which basically did this in

00:49:18   about four and a half minutes it was

00:49:20   much sharper and funnier did you I mean

00:49:23   also he doesn't want to wear that for

00:49:25   ruining Radiohead with child porn

00:49:27   I you know not i'll get over it you can

00:49:30   use you can use bad you know you can use

00:49:32   music good music with bad stuff and I

00:49:34   just the music will survive in the bad

00:49:36   stuff will go away but but it is um yeah

00:49:39   it out States welcome a lot and also for

00:49:42   an insightful sort of social commentary

00:49:46   and tech comment commentary thing I mean

00:49:48   this episode is a little bit like guys

00:49:50   guys did you know there are hackers and

00:49:53   and and wait wait wait did you know

00:49:55   there are text messages also trouble

00:49:59   amazing there's also a troll face and we

00:50:01   and also i don't know if anybody

00:50:02   realized this but the they also get the

00:50:05   GPS coordinates of everybody

00:50:08   it's never that's never explain but yeah

00:50:09   we have your computer but now we know

00:50:11   where your phone is I don't think that

00:50:13   actually makes any sense but ok uh what

00:50:18   I'm saying is it it's tech satire is not

00:50:20   particularly insightful other than that

00:50:22   there are people out there on the

00:50:23   internet who are jerks so fortune but

00:50:27   even more i guess and much better

00:50:29   organized unrealistically well-organized

00:50:31   like the logistics of this are

00:50:33   astronomical but the only thing about

00:50:35   this and it's funny because there are

00:50:36   two episodes that sort of address this

00:50:37   at least that i think is interesting

00:50:40   from a cultural standpoint is the idea

00:50:42   as it turns out these people are all

00:50:43   awful people and they've done terrible

00:50:44   things our protagonist in this episode

00:50:46   actually is the way they have on him is

00:50:48   not that he was masturbating in front of

00:50:50   its laptop it's that he's masturbating

00:50:51   to child pornography in front of his

00:50:53   laptop and uh you know I guess what it's

00:50:58   trying to say is that the internet you

00:51:02   know quill can destroy anyone and it and

00:51:05   it can be bad people or good people but

00:51:08   I mean it's a mess and not very good i

00:51:11   think i'd also like to give a shoutout

00:51:15   to jo steal for

00:51:16   figuring out that twist five minutes in

00:51:18   based on a single based on a single

00:51:21   interaction with another person and I I

00:51:25   completely missed that and I rewatched

00:51:26   it and now that moment has a completely

00:51:28   different meaning to me but kudos to

00:51:30   John for actually figuring that out

00:51:31   oh no Brian went down in the hole again

00:51:33   Brian brain has his in your world but

00:51:37   even more he went through them into the

00:51:39   mirror world

00:51:40   yeah wait did I do i Skype out yeah well

00:51:43   you scrape by on your recording a song

00:51:44   i'm sure all those will come through in

00:51:46   the end that's all go together yet it is

00:51:50   it brand in the mirror world now i'll

00:51:52   send you coming on Blackie files again

00:51:55   Jason come on

00:51:56   anyway uh I mean the upside down and

00:51:58   making Jason to these bits on this a bit

00:52:02   alright well i'm not alone

00:52:05   enough said about shut up and dance I

00:52:07   think who shut up and move on

00:52:15   alright let's move on can we got two

00:52:19   more we should get to them very quickly

00:52:20   and they're very different episodes very

00:52:22   quickly very quickly men against fire is

00:52:25   an episode where I figured out the

00:52:27   shocking plot twist a minute in and then

00:52:30   watched as it delighted in doing its

00:52:34   razzle-dazzle magic trick for about 40

00:52:37   minutes when I knew every step it was

00:52:39   going to take and I didn't

00:52:42   this is in my lower tier of my bottom

00:52:45   for but i didn't put it all the way at

00:52:46   the bottom because I appreciate the

00:52:48   story it's trying to tell even as I

00:52:51   figured out i mean literally got the

00:52:55   entire thing in the first minute and

00:52:59   knew exactly how the entire episode was

00:53:02   going to go i appreciated some of the

00:53:04   little bits in it in terms of style and

00:53:06   the very very end although it lifts

00:53:08   kinda from white Christmas honestly is

00:53:12   an interesting ? sort of twist but you

00:53:16   know this is this is about army people

00:53:18   who are trying to root out a an

00:53:21   infestation of monsters that they call

00:53:23   roaches and they have a heads-up display

00:53:25   basically in their eyes that allows them

00:53:27   to get information about tactical stuff

00:53:30   and the shocker is that what's really

00:53:34   happening is the heads-up display

00:53:36   tactical stuff is making people look

00:53:40   like monsters because they are whoever

00:53:43   they are whatever their reason whether

00:53:45   they're gypsies or Jews or whatever or

00:53:49   you know you name it a left-handed just

00:53:51   yeah they could be left-handed

00:53:53   left-handers that they had to agree with

00:53:55   the butter side down they had to see

00:53:56   that they are all identified uh in these

00:54:00   displays and made to look like and sound

00:54:02   like monsters so that it's easier for

00:54:05   soldiers to kill them and not not feel

00:54:08   bad about killing other human beings and

00:54:10   one character has his system hacked and

00:54:13   discovers that there are shockingly haha

00:54:16   they're actually really really people

00:54:18   and all this extermination talk to talk

00:54:20   about destroying the the awfulness that

00:54:23   they spread is just talking about that

00:54:26   they want to wipe

00:54:26   come out and commit genocide and I again

00:54:30   a perfectly reasonable thing to do you

00:54:33   know where we're against genocide

00:54:35   murdering innocent people great but this

00:54:38   is the one John where I said maybe i've

00:54:40   read too much science fiction but good

00:54:42   Lord that it was easy like you don't

00:54:44   have to read any science fiction to get

00:54:45   this and in fact that undercuts the

00:54:46   whole idea because human beings do this

00:54:49   without that time knowing that this is

00:54:50   this is less grim than the reality so

00:54:53   it's like home

00:54:55   yeah it's like a smile games are

00:54:56   dehumanizing our soldiers what if we

00:54:58   made the actual were like a video game

00:55:00   where they where they we turned the

00:55:02   enemy into monsters

00:55:04   yeah but like we don't need video games

00:55:05   like genocide is yeah i know it happens

00:55:08   you don't even like they just people for

00:55:11   people who look exactly like that like

00:55:12   you don't even look different you don't

00:55:14   have to basically be left-handed like

00:55:16   yeah we don't it is that I do not say

00:55:18   that this whole gotta run wishes episode

00:55:20   was so try out a grand and the execution

00:55:23   was just like the only thing I liked

00:55:26   about it was the idea that after you

00:55:29   know that the it's like what if we don't

00:55:31   erase your memories you'll know all the

00:55:32   bad things you did and it's like to

00:55:33   choose whether you want to do that or

00:55:35   not just but even that you saw coming

00:55:37   once you saw him in the shrinks office

00:55:39   after going through all the stuff and

00:55:40   it's Ned I I'm not angry this one like

00:55:44   am angered the other ones this one falls

00:55:45   into the same categories play test for

00:55:47   me because it's like I know exactly what

00:55:49   you're doing this episode you do it it's

00:55:50   not that great

00:55:52   done yeah yeah I mean GracePoint stop

00:55:54   good

00:55:56   no go ahead at this point I stopped

00:56:00   watching critically because i was so

00:56:01   worn out from watching everything else

00:56:04   so I just kinda like this episode wash

00:56:05   over me and I didn't know the twist

00:56:07   until the end when it was actually

00:56:08   revealed and even then when the twist

00:56:11   like hit me at the exact perfect moment

00:56:12   to show intended it to

00:56:14   I was still just as underwhelmed

00:56:15   everything else because we end with

00:56:17   black mirror screaming and consequences

00:56:19   for characters and yeah fun and whatever

00:56:21   we're 15 minutes points and I rolling

00:56:23   twist if you didn't see it coming you'd

00:56:25   still roll your eyes at like I mean it's

00:56:27   just so like John said it's it's so try

00:56:30   it under it undercuts the reality of the

00:56:32   situation does saying in order for this

00:56:34   to happen they need to look like

00:56:35   monsters to you with some sci-fi deck

00:56:37   nope

00:56:38   don't need that all well although I i do

00:56:40   like the fact that the idea here is that

00:56:41   they're not doing it so that they will

00:56:44   kill them they're doing it so that they

00:56:46   don't get PTSD and are more effective

00:56:48   soldiers so whether they don't feel bad

00:56:51   about it but like this thing is like we

00:56:53   can't find enough people who who will

00:56:55   either just blindly follow orders or be

00:56:57   actually hate these people and in

00:56:59   reality you can people who blindly

00:57:01   follow orders and are actually hit

00:57:03   because that girl here take that

00:57:05   yeah yeah I mean we in terms of figuring

00:57:09   out the twist and in the first minute

00:57:11   welcome to my no I felt like you really

00:57:13   it was yeah i mean probably read about

00:57:16   me

00:57:16   there's five seconds no it wasn't it was

00:57:20   it pretty early on I knew where this was

00:57:22   going to yeah I I but the thing with

00:57:24   black mirrors the most hoping against I

00:57:26   know right ok pricey was obvious

00:57:28   maybe they'll change it and it's just us

00:57:30   as you watch you slowly realize that it

00:57:32   doesn't look at turning away

00:57:33   no not gonna it's like nope they can

00:57:35   avoid it now not there there's actually

00:57:37   it sounds it's like I said they're a lot

00:57:39   of the I mean almost every episode has

00:57:41   something interesting about it there or

00:57:43   occurred with an idea and and too often

00:57:46   it just takes the most obvious direct

00:57:49   way of doing it or the simplest way of

00:57:51   telling the story and you know there

00:57:53   could be interesting ways of doing this

00:57:55   if this had been 22 minutes

00:57:57   yeah it's still going to be lousy but

00:58:00   it's over quickly and it doesn't give

00:58:02   you time to think about headphones which

00:58:04   is like the fifth season Twilight zones

00:58:06   hello it's a clunker