The Incomparable

338: All About Evey


00:00:01   the incomparable [TS]

00:00:05   number 330 a pastor larry 27 welcome [TS]

00:00:13   back everybody to the uncomfortable i'm [TS]

00:00:15   your host Jason Steele we're here to [TS]

00:00:16   talk about v for vendetta [TS]

00:00:19   this is a comic from the eighties by [TS]

00:00:23   Alan Moore and David Lloyd over many [TS]

00:00:26   years in the eighties it was actually [TS]

00:00:28   like a few of the album or earlier more [TS]

00:00:30   projects sort of stopped and then had to [TS]

00:00:32   be restarted a few years later and they [TS]

00:00:34   were unpublished issues but the beauty [TS]

00:00:37   of it is in the end they collected it is [TS]

00:00:39   it as a giant trade paperback that has [TS]

00:00:41   the whole thing in it and so if you have [TS]

00:00:42   been if you read it at any point after [TS]

00:00:44   the late eighties you've probably read [TS]

00:00:47   it in book form which is well I think [TS]

00:00:48   the best way to read and we are you know [TS]

00:00:51   we'll talk about that maybe a little bit [TS]

00:00:52   for those who on the panel who who read [TS]

00:00:54   it and we'll also talk about the film [TS]

00:00:56   which is a much more accessible in many [TS]

00:00:59   ways from 2005 directed by james [TS]

00:01:02   McTeague who is a longtime collaborator [TS]

00:01:05   of the Wachowskis they didn't direct it [TS]

00:01:09   because they had James matete do it but [TS]

00:01:11   they did write it and produce it so [TS]

00:01:13   there's a lot of which house key in be [TS]

00:01:15   for vendetta as well of course the movie [TS]

00:01:17   stars natalie portman and hugo weaving [TS]

00:01:19   in a very interesting performance in so [TS]

00:01:24   many ways like trivia question [TS]

00:01:25   interesting as well as I think good let [TS]

00:01:28   me introduce my panelists we're going to [TS]

00:01:29   talk about the data with me because [TS]

00:01:31   that's something i should probably do [TS]

00:01:33   laughing there why not have her go first [TS]

00:01:35   with Briana well hello hey what's up by [TS]

00:01:37   jason still you know not much not much [TS]

00:01:39   going on the current events kind of [TS]

00:01:41   quiet yeah yeah so I thought you just [TS]

00:01:43   dip into the past into the mid-2004 a [TS]

00:01:46   movie pic ships others also here hi chip [TS]

00:01:49   hi there this was the most unexpected [TS]

00:01:50   use of the benny hill music I ever haha [TS]

00:01:54   i have comments about that scene a [TS]

00:01:57   little bit but we'll get to brian [TS]

00:01:59   hamilton is also here hi Brian tell me [TS]

00:02:01   Jason do you like music uh yeah sure [TS]

00:02:03   music is fine [TS]

00:02:05   boom explosion guy English is here it's [TS]

00:02:08   been a little while high guy welcome [TS]

00:02:09   back [TS]

00:02:10   hey it's really nice to be here i miss [TS]

00:02:12   you [TS]

00:02:13   we missed you too yeah yeah [TS]

00:02:15   well you know what for three years I had [TS]

00:02:17   Moses and apologize to no one [TS]

00:02:20   alright and fill most lachrymose well I [TS]

00:02:24   didn't know guy was gonna be here but [TS]

00:02:26   I'll still stay anyway cases this is [TS]

00:02:27   strength through unity you got tricked [TS]

00:02:30   we totally got tricked into this [TS]

00:02:32   yeah I I didn't tell anybody guy would [TS]

00:02:34   be here because i wanted i wanted to the [TS]

00:02:36   whole panel to show up so surprised [TS]

00:02:39   so how so how many of you have read the [TS]

00:02:41   comic I'm curious [TS]

00:02:43   oh absolutely yeah i've read it when it [TS]

00:02:45   was first coming out [TS]

00:02:46   wow yeah me too i walked into ides [TS]

00:02:48   comics in pittsburgh and loved the [TS]

00:02:51   artwork and was fascinated by it and [TS]

00:02:54   never read it interesting and Brian's [TS]

00:02:58   can stay here and play listen while [TS]

00:02:59   everyone else talks about the comic [TS]

00:03:00   comic is it is a lot and it's very dense [TS]

00:03:06   it's you know it's really more because [TS]

00:03:08   it started in 80-82 it's fairly early [TS]

00:03:10   its it really reminded me of a lot of [TS]

00:03:13   comics published in England in that [TS]

00:03:18   period that I've read it had at the art [TS]

00:03:21   style really look like that it's it and [TS]

00:03:23   it's super dense and because it was [TS]

00:03:25   published in the eighties the the [TS]

00:03:26   publishing like the color and contrast [TS]

00:03:28   techniques I i was trying to read this [TS]

00:03:31   in a dimly lit room and was literally [TS]

00:03:33   unable to read it i had to get my ID to [TS]

00:03:35   turn on a bright light in order to see [TS]

00:03:37   it because the it is you know it that's [TS]

00:03:41   just the the nature of the publishing [TS]

00:03:43   medium in that in that time especially I [TS]

00:03:45   was originally black and white so on top [TS]

00:03:48   of that they're there colorizing black [TS]

00:03:51   and white art and that's it's a bit of a [TS]

00:03:53   rough go [TS]

00:03:54   yeah yeah it is step for people who have [TS]

00:03:56   seen the movie what you should know [TS]

00:03:57   about the comic i mean i-i think it's [TS]

00:03:59   good it is super dense it to the point [TS]

00:04:02   where i was reading a couple of articles [TS]

00:04:03   about how they felt like you know it's [TS]

00:04:07   what exactly what you'd expect which is [TS]

00:04:08   a look at allen more comic adaptation [TS]

00:04:10   first off he took his name off the movie [TS]

00:04:12   because he takes his name off every [TS]

00:04:13   every movie but a lot of people will be [TS]

00:04:14   like oh well you know it's it's the [TS]

00:04:16   movie is so simplified compared to the [TS]

00:04:18   comic and it's true the comic is so the [TS]

00:04:20   comic is so dense so much happens in the [TS]

00:04:22   comic that the streamlining they had to [TS]

00:04:25   do a tremendous amount of streamlining [TS]

00:04:26   for the movie but you know that there [TS]

00:04:28   are [TS]

00:04:29   the shape of it and specific memorable [TS]

00:04:31   scenes in it are reflected in in the [TS]

00:04:34   movie as well I came to the movie first [TS]

00:04:35   and went back and read the comics yeah I [TS]

00:04:37   i did the same thing in the comic yeah I [TS]

00:04:40   i see the brilliance there but it's like [TS]

00:04:42   an eel students and you know novel in [TS]

00:04:46   the sense it's so big and it's so dense [TS]

00:04:48   it so would like benefit from editing [TS]

00:04:51   it's just a hot mess right out [TS]

00:04:54   I think it's worth remembering that at [TS]

00:04:55   the time comics were directed and alan [TS]

00:05:00   moore almost single-handedly Alan what a [TS]

00:05:03   bunch of other British people from [TS]

00:05:04   Thatcher's England sort of recreate the [TS]

00:05:06   art form in a lot of ways everything we [TS]

00:05:08   know about that man now came out of that [TS]

00:05:10   basically when you can see the [TS]

00:05:12   techniques that are used to use for [TS]

00:05:13   years later and watch men at work at you [TS]

00:05:15   which is better like heat you know he [TS]

00:05:18   learned any girl and yeah it's dense yes [TS]

00:05:21   it's difficult [TS]

00:05:22   yes certainly going back to try to beat [TS]

00:05:24   it is is hard i personally love the [TS]

00:05:26   movie I didn't really like the watch [TS]

00:05:28   movie which is a comic book nerds are [TS]

00:05:30   gonna take my card guys touching the [TS]

00:05:33   third well no I i'm with you guys i'm [TS]

00:05:36   with you i like it and you know what [TS]

00:05:38   Alan Moore loves the medium of comic [TS]

00:05:40   books he loves it and he is an artist in [TS]

00:05:43   that medium and what he's good at is [TS]

00:05:46   leveraging that so when you take that [TS]

00:05:47   work and you put in a different medium [TS]

00:05:49   by necessity you must omit various [TS]

00:05:53   aspects of it and i think particularly [TS]

00:05:56   this movie but even watch me too but [TS]

00:05:58   particularly this movie is very strong [TS]

00:06:00   film based off of that the same ideas [TS]

00:06:03   and and the root the root of the story [TS]

00:06:07   that he was trying to tell them beefing [TS]

00:06:09   data and this was one of the craziest [TS]

00:06:10   for in the way of comic book movies that [TS]

00:06:14   was adapted for the for film that was [TS]

00:06:18   way different than anything anybody had [TS]

00:06:21   seen like I mean hugo weaving is i mean [TS]

00:06:24   we're talking obviously about this but [TS]

00:06:26   like the fact that he has a mask on for [TS]

00:06:29   the entire film is literally unheard of [TS]

00:06:33   i am hosting this entire show wearing a [TS]

00:06:35   mask and you can only hear my voice you [TS]

00:06:37   can see my face at all just throwing it [TS]

00:06:39   out there beautiful [TS]

00:06:40   it's an honor [TS]

00:06:41   yeah no it'sit's it's amazing will get [TS]

00:06:43   there i was going to say something about [TS]

00:06:44   the way the story is told that you know [TS]

00:06:47   it has this meandering history it was a [TS]

00:06:50   comic in a in a larger collection which [TS]

00:06:53   is something that happened in the UK [TS]

00:06:55   where they be a magazine that would have [TS]

00:06:56   different stories in it and warrior [TS]

00:06:59   magazine yes so you get the i want to [TS]

00:07:01   say it's almost de ken zijn in the sense [TS]

00:07:04   that these AR installments and I think [TS]

00:07:07   you know the way I think more had an [TS]

00:07:10   endgame in mind but one of the reasons [TS]

00:07:14   that you have to do some work when you [TS]

00:07:16   turn this into a movie is because the [TS]

00:07:19   comic is episodic it is stretched out it [TS]

00:07:22   can meander it can go in lots of [TS]

00:07:24   different twists and turns and take a [TS]

00:07:26   long time because not only is it like [TS]

00:07:28   any comic an issue by issue sort of [TS]

00:07:30   thing it wasn't done as a novel but in [TS]

00:07:33   addition to that it was done in small [TS]

00:07:35   installments inside another magazine and [TS]

00:07:37   then it got a delay and then it got you [TS]

00:07:39   know published years later some of those [TS]

00:07:41   things got so it ended up being a very [TS]

00:07:42   stretched out narrative I'm sure when [TS]

00:07:45   most says you know it you could be i [TS]

00:07:47   think was most maybe was guide when you [TS]

00:07:49   say almost like a rough draft and it [TS]

00:07:51   could be tightened I mean that's the [TS]

00:07:53   problem of writing in installments is [TS]

00:07:55   you don't get to go back and make [TS]

00:07:56   changes so it is sprawling and [TS]

00:07:58   meandering in a way that that that a [TS]

00:08:00   movie you would never choose if you [TS]

00:08:02   could do a rewrite of the whole thing [TS]

00:08:03   when you were done but comics at work [TS]

00:08:05   like that not only installments but it [TS]

00:08:07   also just it brackets it brackets [TS]

00:08:11   watchman the first two parts of the book [TS]

00:08:13   were written between in the early [TS]

00:08:16   eighties not booked and released like 80 [TS]

00:08:18   to 85 and then I believe warrior folded [TS]

00:08:22   so look the the comic is divided into 3 [TS]

00:08:26   into 3 books and the first two made it [TS]

00:08:29   into warrior then the story just stops [TS]

00:08:33   more makes a name for himself at DC with [TS]

00:08:38   Swamp Thing and other stuff watch men [TS]

00:08:40   becomes a thing and DC gives more the [TS]

00:08:44   opportunity to finish v for vendetta [TS]

00:08:46   with the third book which was written so [TS]

00:08:49   much later so it's not just episodic but [TS]

00:08:52   it's it's it's it's it's free [TS]

00:08:54   admitted at least in terms of the [TS]

00:08:56   morning he had to get back into his head [TS]

00:08:58   space to write the thing [TS]

00:08:59   yeah I came in for the third book i was [TS]

00:09:01   working at the comic store at the time [TS]

00:09:03   and when that came out and it was like [TS]

00:09:05   mind-blowing for everybody but it's like [TS]

00:09:07   in in some ways it's like tell me the [TS]

00:09:09   story spider-man and Jason know your big [TS]

00:09:11   fan so you can tell me the story [TS]

00:09:13   spider-man there's no story of [TS]

00:09:15   spider-man need like he's moscato ours [TS]

00:09:18   gets his powers any you know is uncle [TS]

00:09:20   dies and now he's you know great power [TS]

00:09:22   great responsibility [TS]

00:09:23   go like there's no there's no artoo it's [TS]

00:09:26   unlike watchman which is a fully plucked [TS]

00:09:29   out very carefully plotted out from [TS]

00:09:31   beginning to end [TS]

00:09:32   also the character of EV is just not [TS]

00:09:35   really the same you know like this this [TS]

00:09:37   comic book is very much a product of the [TS]

00:09:40   the eighties right and it's clearly up [TS]

00:09:42   that that low level 80 sexism image in [TS]

00:09:46   spite of every single tournament that [TS]

00:09:48   it's every single bad trope like it's [TS]

00:09:50   your rape being used to like good just [TS]

00:09:53   as to come titillate the the reader and [TS]

00:09:56   you know a shortcut for character [TS]

00:09:58   development is just she's not as good a [TS]

00:10:01   character at all and I think it really [TS]

00:10:03   speaks to you about the witch house case [TS]

00:10:06   ability to write a more interesting [TS]

00:10:07   character there and natalie portman's [TS]

00:10:10   ability to play it actually agreed the [TS]

00:10:12   killing joke suffers from the same thing [TS]

00:10:14   yeah but so much of that DNA from the [TS]

00:10:16   comic does make it into the movie [TS]

00:10:19   because it is following the bones of the [TS]

00:10:22   plot so some of the things that I found [TS]

00:10:25   really problematic in the comic about EV [TS]

00:10:28   are still there [TS]

00:10:30   despite Natalie perform important [TS]

00:10:32   performance and despite you know some [TS]

00:10:34   refinements along the way it's still can [TS]

00:10:38   i use the word squeaky i'm going to use [TS]

00:10:40   the words which is what we watching a [TS]

00:10:42   movie tonight he doesn't he could [TS]

00:10:45   frankly just be a figment of her [TS]

00:10:47   imagination for particularly because [TS]

00:10:49   those actions that he takes it to have [TS]

00:10:51   impact on the world but effectively he's [TS]

00:10:53   the inspiration for her changing my [TS]

00:10:55   nanny is the inspiration and the agent [TS]

00:10:57   of change for everybody that's whether [TS]

00:10:59   all standing outside the building in [TS]

00:11:01   Parliament [TS]

00:11:01   and it blows up sure he sent to train [TS]

00:11:04   but ultimately bit blows up because the [TS]

00:11:07   the people right accepted his message [TS]

00:11:10   and showed up on mass to to protest it [TS]

00:11:13   and we see that story too easy [TS]

00:11:15   transition from being sort of you know [TS]

00:11:18   almost a functionary of the machine to [TS]

00:11:20   completely rejecting it anyway I'd I [TS]

00:11:24   think that's why we don't see his face [TS]

00:11:25   basically he's an idea not not a man so [TS]

00:11:28   much [TS]

00:11:29   let's talk about v in the film Hugo [TS]

00:11:32   Weaving yeah plays this i believe they [TS]

00:11:34   shot for a week or two with a different [TS]

00:11:36   actor and then and then that they [TS]

00:11:38   replace that actor and Hugo Weaving came [TS]

00:11:40   in and so there may be a few shots in [TS]

00:11:42   this movie where where he is it's not [TS]

00:11:46   Hugo Weaving but i believe in large part [TS]

00:11:48   he's there and he's acting and then [TS]

00:11:50   presumably they looked his dialogue but [TS]

00:11:52   it's still it's him and it's quite a [TS]

00:11:54   performance [TS]

00:11:55   oh you know I think I think it's a great [TS]

00:11:57   vocal performance and a great physical [TS]

00:11:59   performance and such as a dangerous [TS]

00:12:02   decision to have I mean in the in the [TS]

00:12:05   comic every panel everybody's face is [TS]

00:12:08   frozen in a comic right i mean get away [TS]

00:12:10   with it but in a movie to do that and I [TS]

00:12:14   i think it's a bold decision and I think [TS]

00:12:16   it really works because of the [TS]

00:12:18   physicality and because of the voice [TS]

00:12:19   that it is but he you know the fact is [TS]

00:12:22   we doesn't have a name he's just V we we [TS]

00:12:25   learned that that although he likes [TS]

00:12:27   alliteration because you know he's got [TS]

00:12:29   that whole speech with all ever like [TS]

00:12:31   every word that starts with v is in that [TS]

00:12:32   speech he's room 5 from the testing [TS]

00:12:35   facility where he was kind of created [TS]

00:12:37   recreated and you know he doesn't have a [TS]

00:12:40   name and we never see his face and and [TS]

00:12:43   guys right he you you could view him as [TS]

00:12:45   being and he I think maybe infuse [TS]

00:12:47   himself as the embodiment of an idea [TS]

00:12:49   more than a person he's most akin to me [TS]

00:12:52   as the Joker in the Dark Knight i am [TS]

00:12:55   reading the comics so I don't know what [TS]

00:12:56   any of the Joker's established backstory [TS]

00:12:59   is but to me in the dark knight the [TS]

00:13:02   joker is just a symbol of chaos [TS]

00:13:04   wonderfully performed by Keith ledger in [TS]

00:13:06   the same way hugo weaving is simply an [TS]

00:13:09   idea man behind the mask is not as much [TS]

00:13:12   of him but he's the idea they hammer [TS]

00:13:14   that home [TS]

00:13:14   in the movie a lot and the fact that you [TS]

00:13:17   know going back to the fact that he's in [TS]

00:13:18   a mask the whole time in a comic you do [TS]

00:13:20   have the separate drawings and words and [TS]

00:13:23   in the movie you have both his vocal [TS]

00:13:25   performance and his physical performance [TS]

00:13:27   it's not a David Prowse james earl jones [TS]

00:13:30   situation it is hugo weaving through and [TS]

00:13:32   through and that shines through in his [TS]

00:13:34   performance to make it more coherent but [TS]

00:13:36   I'm glad you got a better because i was [TS]

00:13:37   gonna say that he's probably the other [TS]

00:13:39   example of a character that everybody [TS]

00:13:41   kind of ya reads and understands right [TS]

00:13:44   that it had does epistatic mask [TS]

00:13:46   it's interesting that we're talking [TS]

00:13:47   about the character as an idea in this [TS]

00:13:51   movie compared to the idea in the book [TS]

00:13:55   up the book really leans into like [TS]

00:13:58   anarchism yes LOL the whole point of the [TS]

00:14:01   whole point of the graphic novel is alan [TS]

00:14:04   moore pretty much defending anarchism as [TS]

00:14:06   a philosophy v is right up there you [TS]

00:14:10   know he wants to get everybody to the [TS]

00:14:11   land of do as you please and and but [TS]

00:14:15   before that there's going to be a period [TS]

00:14:17   of K chaos that he calls the land of [TS]

00:14:20   take what you want but he says that you [TS]

00:14:21   gotta get if you're going to deal with [TS]

00:14:24   authoritarianism and totalitarianism [TS]

00:14:25   you're going to have the chaos before [TS]

00:14:27   you get to this philosophy of everybody [TS]

00:14:30   taking personal responsibility and [TS]

00:14:32   everybody who making collective order [TS]

00:14:35   and something like that [TS]

00:14:36   not a whole lot of that comes through in [TS]

00:14:38   the movie he's more of a generic agent [TS]

00:14:41   of chaos slash freedom fighter then you [TS]

00:14:45   know there's not a whole lot of [TS]

00:14:46   anarchists philosophy into this movie [TS]

00:14:48   and what I think that's what Alan Moore [TS]

00:14:50   had a problem with because you know you [TS]

00:14:53   know not everybody accepts that real [TS]

00:14:54   well no one really accept this movie [TS]

00:14:56   when it came out if your recall it was [TS]

00:14:59   kind of and bye-bye reviews severely and [TS]

00:15:03   you know so but you you come out [TS]

00:15:04   straight up with an with anarchists [TS]

00:15:06   cookbook on film [TS]

00:15:08   no no no what no one's no one's gonna go [TS]

00:15:10   for that real well [TS]

00:15:11   well I mean so this is the early [TS]

00:15:13   eighties in Thatcher's UK this is the [TS]

00:15:15   beginning of the punk movement this is [TS]

00:15:18   akin and it is certainly part of the [TS]

00:15:20   family of that entire movement [TS]

00:15:23   I mean that's where we get the anarchy [TS]

00:15:24   symbol firm which is it's no mistake to [TS]

00:15:27   be simply yellow like the animals real [TS]

00:15:29   because they're down obvious [TS]

00:15:31   yeah exactly an obvious shadow is that [TS]

00:15:33   is relevant when the audience when they [TS]

00:15:36   made this movie [TS]

00:15:37   no I don't think so but I think they [TS]

00:15:40   took what was development for the time [TS]

00:15:42   and they the jigger the politics behind [TS]

00:15:45   a little bit in order to tell his story [TS]

00:15:47   that would land the same points but [TS]

00:15:50   would be more relevant for the time [TS]

00:15:51   CII have to give a little bit push back [TS]

00:15:54   on that I think I it's very clear that [TS]

00:15:57   Elmore's interpretation be was [TS]

00:15:59   definitely you know in his anarchist [TS]

00:16:02   libertarian view point i think the [TS]

00:16:05   beauty of the film in the the book like [TS]

00:16:08   the physical book that went along with [TS]

00:16:09   the film is it really you know this [TS]

00:16:13   isn't written by you know a white guy [TS]

00:16:16   it's a much much deeper perspective [TS]

00:16:18   about you know societies that oppressed [TS]

00:16:22   people and I think it's much deeper [TS]

00:16:23   because of that V the reading of him in [TS]

00:16:27   the movie is so much deeper he's not [TS]

00:16:30   like a a joker agent of chaos there's a [TS]

00:16:33   lot of duality there if he's a villain a [TS]

00:16:36   terrorist our hero and you can look at [TS]

00:16:39   this film and see it completely [TS]

00:16:41   legitimately both ways he tortures EV he [TS]

00:16:44   water board's her he you know he there's [TS]

00:16:47   a scene where he talks about he's a [TS]

00:16:49   monster and he's been broken by the [TS]

00:16:51   things have happened to him to do one [TS]

00:16:53   good thing he does in the movie is that [TS]

00:16:55   TV make the decision to do the train [TS]

00:16:57   down exactly it's why this movie really [TS]

00:17:00   appeals to me i mean i think most people [TS]

00:17:02   that know me in my real life no you know [TS]

00:17:05   i am someone else out there every day [TS]

00:17:07   working for change i think people to get [TS]

00:17:11   that invested in it there's an anger [TS]

00:17:14   sometimes it kind of drives you with [TS]

00:17:17   that about the things have been done to [TS]

00:17:19   you along the way to make you feel so [TS]

00:17:21   strongly about that [TS]

00:17:22   so when I see be wrestling with that [TS]

00:17:24   part of himself [TS]

00:17:26   it's it's real to me and yeah I also say [TS]

00:17:30   I realized there were some critics that [TS]

00:17:31   didn't like this movie when it came out [TS]

00:17:33   to me this came out at the height of the [TS]

00:17:36   bush [TS]

00:17:36   administration in the middle of the Iraq [TS]

00:17:38   war and I remember everybody and [TS]

00:17:41   outgoing seeing it like four times in [TS]

00:17:43   the theater and people loving so you [TS]

00:17:46   know that was mine I think you could [TS]

00:17:48   really make the argument that V in the [TS]

00:17:51   in the movie is very specifically [TS]

00:17:55   pushing back against an oppressive [TS]

00:17:57   government and V in the book is pushing [TS]

00:18:00   back against society the system [TS]

00:18:03   everything right he's a is an anarchist [TS]

00:18:05   he he wants to push back on anything and [TS]

00:18:08   the VA and the film is more targeted [TS]

00:18:10   because there is you know that there is [TS]

00:18:13   this the fascist regime in Britain that [TS]

00:18:16   he is he is specifically pushing back [TS]

00:18:18   against which I do think is also part of [TS]

00:18:20   yes being a mid-2000 film that night's [TS]

00:18:23   the politics that they were most that [TS]

00:18:25   was closest to them and therefore they [TS]

00:18:27   were most concerned by and also he's [TS]

00:18:29   pushing against the V is pushing against [TS]

00:18:33   two different kinds of fascism or or or [TS]

00:18:36   two different characterizations of [TS]

00:18:37   authoritarianism in the book of the film [TS]

00:18:39   in the book you don't have John Hurt [TS]

00:18:42   staring at you screaming from a [TS]

00:18:44   viewscreen but you just it's totally [TS]

00:18:47   personal in the film in a way that the [TS]

00:18:51   book is not it's more but it's more of a [TS]

00:18:52   clash of ideas kind of thing the the [TS]

00:18:55   leader Adam Susan in the book is much [TS]

00:18:59   more passive then the then Adam sutler [TS]

00:19:03   is in the movie and I think I happy that [TS]

00:19:06   I think that influences that influences [TS]

00:19:09   how he is played in the book and film [TS]

00:19:11   the reactionary elements to it like what [TS]

00:19:13   how they are characterizing the [TS]

00:19:14   quote-unquote enemy that the state [TS]

00:19:17   effectively it depends on the government [TS]

00:19:20   under which the book or the movie are [TS]

00:19:21   being written at the time and I think [TS]

00:19:24   that in the eighties it characterized so [TS]

00:19:28   reflected like Thatcherism and and [TS]

00:19:30   mechanism at and I think of his reaction [TS]

00:19:33   to that and in the two thousands we had [TS]

00:19:36   a bit of a different setup right little [TS]

00:19:38   it was a different circumstance and [TS]

00:19:42   certainly the plate pretty loud and [TS]

00:19:44   clear about like taking people away for [TS]

00:19:46   the ground [TS]

00:19:47   yeah right well but we also [TS]

00:19:49   understood what was to be galvanized by [TS]

00:19:52   certain events that happened and then we [TS]

00:19:54   were all right go go let's get them [TS]

00:19:57   let's get them kill kill kill [TS]

00:19:58   yeah right and so it right you know [TS]

00:20:00   there's this is the this is the pretext [TS]

00:20:02   the you know if you go back to the [TS]

00:20:04   Reichstag fire right it's the pretext [TS]

00:20:06   that allows the movement that allows the [TS]

00:20:09   government to become completely [TS]

00:20:10   authoritarian and in this case it's the [TS]

00:20:12   u.s. having a plague and a nuclear war [TS]

00:20:16   and being you know falling apart and [TS]

00:20:19   then we also discovered there have been [TS]

00:20:21   a couple attacks on British soil and [TS]

00:20:24   that all leads to this complete takeover [TS]

00:20:27   by the fascist government in in Britain [TS]

00:20:31   so we so we think that's the official [TS]

00:20:32   party line right but that's not actually [TS]

00:20:34   be find out we find out they cut it was [TS]

00:20:37   an inside job Bryce yeah right and the [TS]

00:20:41   one scene where you where you can see [TS]

00:20:42   bits of hugo weaving face it gives me it [TS]

00:20:45   gives me pause of those scenes because [TS]

00:20:47   we have we saw post 911 right that that [TS]

00:20:51   one of the great conspiracy theories was [TS]

00:20:52   it's an inside job it was all set up it [TS]

00:20:54   was all pretext and you know in v for [TS]

00:20:57   vendetta that's exactly what it is and [TS]

00:20:59   that that I makes me makes me pause [TS]

00:21:02   because that sign that kind of way of [TS]

00:21:04   thinking led to people down kind of [TS]

00:21:06   wacky fantasy rabbit hole and conducted [TS]

00:21:10   very introduction and here it's in the [TS]

00:21:12   in the plot i want to ask about John [TS]

00:21:13   Hurt I think the user john hurt here is [TS]

00:21:15   fascinating first column John Hurt [TS]

00:21:17   whoo-hoo as we record this just passed [TS]

00:21:19   away [TS]

00:21:20   great actor what's interesting here is [TS]

00:21:23   so he was Winston Smith in the movie [TS]

00:21:25   1984 and it is i think no mistake about [TS]

00:21:29   how he's deployed here a little not only [TS]

00:21:32   using the character guy who was in [TS]

00:21:34   nineteen eighty-four but by having him [TS]

00:21:36   not be a person until the like last [TS]

00:21:38   scene but a face on a screen huge screen [TS]

00:21:43   I mean they really make him into big [TS]

00:21:45   brother that is that is absolutely the [TS]

00:21:48   intent is to make a sutler a big brother [TS]

00:21:51   figure and having a page on her who was [TS]

00:21:52   in nineteen eighty-four is icing on the [TS]

00:21:55   cake there it's hard to believe he was [TS]

00:21:57   Winston Smith [TS]

00:21:59   when his big brother I guess he learned [TS]

00:22:00   to love himself i I don't know something [TS]

00:22:03   like that hurt is is he's great he's [TS]

00:22:06   kind of frosting when he needs to and [TS]

00:22:07   shouting when he needs to but he's up [TS]

00:22:08   there on the screen i want to mention [TS]

00:22:10   that one of the most fascinating uses [TS]

00:22:12   have hurt in this entire thing is in the [TS]

00:22:14   comedy sketch on stephen Fry's suddenly [TS]

00:22:17   subversive comedy show that's the one [TS]

00:22:19   with the benny hill music with yakety [TS]

00:22:20   sax playing in the background they have [TS]

00:22:22   a they have a sutler impersonator that [TS]

00:22:25   they're doing this comedy sketch around [TS]

00:22:26   and the movie just uses John her to be [TS]

00:22:29   that guy which I think it's so amazing [TS]

00:22:31   it's like it's just john heard with like [TS]

00:22:33   darker facial hair and stuff but I like [TS]

00:22:35   pancake wife like ask somebody to look [TS]

00:22:38   like John heard in a comedy sketch when [TS]

00:22:41   you can just have John Hurt bv excellent [TS]

00:22:44   impersonation of Joan Harris one of the [TS]

00:22:48   reasons i love this movie is that and [TS]

00:22:51   and one of the reasons i was considering [TS]

00:22:52   be as a good imaginary figment we see a [TS]

00:22:57   scene where a young girl who's been [TS]

00:22:59   spray-painting like she's been following [TS]

00:23:01   the v story since the beginning like in [TS]

00:23:04   like the second scene but he's being [TS]

00:23:06   seen spray-painting the TV logo we see [TS]

00:23:09   her get shot and then we see her in the [TS]

00:23:12   final scene [TS]

00:23:13   yes as they all take off their masks and [TS]

00:23:15   there's people that we know to be dead [TS]

00:23:17   there [TS]

00:23:18   yes open love held non-literal the movie [TS]

00:23:21   is and that's why i love the idea that's [TS]

00:23:24   like this is this is conceptual there's [TS]

00:23:27   there's a lot of reality to the fellow [TS]

00:23:29   right like alive to the camera shots [TS]

00:23:31   that they deliberately have day they [TS]

00:23:33   make a real point to pull the camera [TS]

00:23:35   back and have these slow shots around [TS]

00:23:37   people's faces to just show the reacting [TS]

00:23:40   to it and the way the movie is i edited [TS]

00:23:43   in a nonlinear way we're just is [TS]

00:23:45   constantly bringing back these themes [TS]

00:23:48   from the past like running through the [TS]

00:23:50   series of events it is very much [TS]

00:23:52   constructed to be a very surreal i think [TS]

00:23:56   it's it's what makes this very different [TS]

00:23:58   than any other which house key project [TS]

00:24:01   right like it'sit's um it's like a dream [TS]

00:24:04   it really is i find it's I mean out of [TS]

00:24:06   all this stuff done this this is way up [TS]

00:24:09   there like why is Vee sitting up all [TS]

00:24:11   is dominos not amazing but it looks [TS]

00:24:14   awesome though so he does it had access [TS]

00:24:16   your time to make his low yeah and [TS]

00:24:18   Domino yeah yer yeah it doesn't matter [TS]

00:24:21   it looks awesome [TS]

00:24:22   you don't question it nice work and has [TS]

00:24:25   one left standing which oh yeah I've got [TS]

00:24:27   to go let Eevee like decided to let the [TS]

00:24:30   train go not its is this like one of the [TS]

00:24:35   best lines of movie is it artists use [TS]

00:24:37   lies to tell the truth [TS]

00:24:39   this movie is a slice don't do it and [TS]

00:24:43   and it's very aware of it i think the [TS]

00:24:45   comic book did the same thing and I i [TS]

00:24:48   really respect it's it's constructed [TS]

00:24:51   incredibly well way so a much lesser [TS]

00:24:54   movie would show those faces in the [TS]

00:24:59   crowd at the end and juxtapose them like [TS]

00:25:03   with a black-and-white shot of their [TS]

00:25:05   appearance previously you make you [TS]

00:25:07   wonder like what you can remember this [TS]

00:25:10   like this movie doesn't even want out [TS]

00:25:12   like i don't think it even cares if you [TS]

00:25:14   realize that those people are I think [TS]

00:25:15   it's just bonus points if you do if you [TS]

00:25:17   see you see the girl there you see a [TS]

00:25:21   gallery there right yeah yeah we see [TS]

00:25:23   Stephen Fry you see Stephen Fry there [TS]

00:25:25   exactly right that these people we know [TS]

00:25:27   to be dead but they're uh they're in the [TS]

00:25:31   crowd at the at the end and i like that [TS]

00:25:34   i really like how Valerie is treated [TS]

00:25:36   throughout the film because one of the [TS]

00:25:38   things that we see is the first time we [TS]

00:25:40   see her [TS]

00:25:41   it's in a flashback from the the test [TS]

00:25:44   grounds at Larkhill where be like [TS]

00:25:47   experimented on right and we see her [TS]

00:25:49   just as a random victim contestants [TS]

00:25:52   alignment [TS]

00:25:53   oh yeah we see her alive in a line and [TS]

00:25:56   then we see her dead in the pit and then [TS]

00:25:59   we get her flash back later and then we [TS]

00:26:02   also see her face at the end and it's [TS]

00:26:04   haunting because you know the movie is [TS]

00:26:06   not trying to tell us anything literally [TS]

00:26:07   at the end I feel like I feel like [TS]

00:26:09   that's just a reminder of these are the [TS]

00:26:12   you know these are also people and you [TS]

00:26:15   judge it they're not ghosts they're not [TS]

00:26:17   you know they're not anything they are [TS]

00:26:19   the people who are triumphing their part [TS]

00:26:23   of the group of people who are now [TS]

00:26:24   trying things [TS]

00:26:24   over this this terrible regime that's [TS]

00:26:27   all I i think it's it's a real call to [TS]

00:26:30   action at the end I think it's something [TS]

00:26:32   we should all do very well to remember [TS]

00:26:35   today like it goes for people that gave [TS]

00:26:38   their lives to get to that point it's [TS]

00:26:41   showing these are all people that stood [TS]

00:26:43   up that did what they could some played [TS]

00:26:46   small part some point very large parts [TS]

00:26:48   but it's all part of what led to this [TS]

00:26:50   and I think that is the the extremely [TS]

00:26:53   moving message at the end of it and [TS]

00:26:55   Jason I have to say it's like we [TS]

00:26:57   mentioned Valerie that whole subplot I [TS]

00:27:00   cannot watch it right now just breaking [TS]

00:27:02   down like I tried tonight I tried [TS]

00:27:05   watching you tonight and the quote they [TS]

00:27:07   say the beginning the shoulders from [TS]

00:27:08   that you know roses for three years and [TS]

00:27:11   Apollo is no one like you to fellate [TS]

00:27:13   what a beautiful scent and structurally [TS]

00:27:15   I mean not only is it amazingly [TS]

00:27:17   beautiful but structurally and it like [TS]

00:27:19   this in the comic to write but you could [TS]

00:27:21   do it in a comic I feel like butt in a [TS]

00:27:22   in a a motion picture with a lot of [TS]

00:27:24   action and a huge budget right the movie [TS]

00:27:26   stops to tell her story it's like a [TS]

00:27:29   little anthology short story inside this [TS]

00:27:33   other movie and you know it's [TS]

00:27:35   interleaved a little bit where he is is [TS]

00:27:37   being processed and tortured and and [TS]

00:27:39   then going back to her cell and reading [TS]

00:27:40   a little bit more so they try to but but [TS]

00:27:42   essentially that segment of the movie is [TS]

00:27:44   about Valerie's story that's what it's [TS]

00:27:46   about 90 right in the middle of the [TS]

00:27:48   movie [TS]

00:27:48   yeah right dead center if it weren't for [TS]

00:27:51   that segment of the movie i would [TS]

00:27:54   consider this movie irredeemable oh ok [TS]

00:27:58   irredeemable because i have some I have [TS]

00:28:02   real problems in both the comic and the [TS]

00:28:03   movie i have real problems with what V [TS]

00:28:06   does TV [TS]

00:28:08   oh god yeah oh yes mmm I grout queer [TS]

00:28:11   Mississippi right like it's that's [TS]

00:28:13   playing on hard but right it's stuck [TS]

00:28:15   you know the the whole scene with [TS]

00:28:17   Valerie where she is you know these are [TS]

00:28:20   the fears that every single queer person [TS]

00:28:23   you know all the real Jew house on a [TS]

00:28:26   very very deep level and it is so [TS]

00:28:29   movingly done and I just I cannot watch [TS]

00:28:32   this entire scene without just breaking [TS]

00:28:36   down dirty crying [TS]

00:28:38   like I was on a plane at last time I saw [TS]

00:28:40   this like I'm in first class and just [TS]

00:28:43   weeping everybody's there staring at me [TS]

00:28:45   because it's so emotionally done so i [TS]

00:28:49   just don't I know I I I feel like [TS]

00:28:53   there's so much wider meaning there in [TS]

00:28:57   her death and you know the fact that [TS]

00:28:59   dies given to natalie portman then push [TS]

00:29:02   her on to the next level I just think [TS]

00:29:04   it's brilliantly done and it's really [TS]

00:29:06   important that it is a real story it is [TS]

00:29:09   the real story that right v received in [TS]

00:29:13   his cell that he didn't just manufacture [TS]

00:29:16   it for v's benefit that's also vitally [TS]

00:29:19   important I don't know if that matters [TS]

00:29:21   and i think that's part of it in the [TS]

00:29:22   middle of story is that he does tell EV [TS]

00:29:28   first of all these names are pretty much [TS]

00:29:30   dead giveaway that like none of this is [TS]

00:29:33   personal [TS]

00:29:33   vite lzv the valerie no was was real and [TS]

00:29:39   destroy Israel and it wasn't fabricated [TS]

00:29:42   but doesn't matter that like all I'm [TS]

00:29:45   thinking is to tell it using using light [TS]

00:29:48   has to tell the truth is literally a [TS]

00:29:51   theme of this [TS]

00:29:52   yeah but if it wasn't true that really i [TS]

00:29:55   think that would have sunk us visually [TS]

00:29:58   and this day the testing open to the um [TS]

00:30:02   I am I am open to the idea that v is [TS]

00:30:05   Valley and that she didn't die in person [TS]

00:30:08   and it she went on to become v well [TS]

00:30:10   either either way that I mean the [TS]

00:30:11   argument of a lark hill is that I feel [TS]

00:30:13   like as much as V is a I mean he's many [TS]

00:30:17   things here if he is a revolutionary the [TS]

00:30:19   is a victim v is a superhero kind of [TS]

00:30:25   because he basically gets powers [TS]

00:30:27   I mean there is Alan Moore is absolutely [TS]

00:30:30   commenting on some of the and using some [TS]

00:30:32   of the tropes of superheroes in this not [TS]

00:30:35   superhero comic that way but one thing v [TS]

00:30:39   is also is V is the only survivor of a [TS]

00:30:43   program that killed everybody else and [TS]

00:30:45   he wears his guilt of being the only [TS]

00:30:48   survivor and his responsibility for [TS]

00:30:50   everyone who didn't survive as the [TS]

00:30:53   person who speaks for them whether he's [TS]

00:30:55   representing Valerie or not he you know [TS]

00:30:59   it mean he he he could be Valerie or you [TS]

00:31:01   cannot be Valerie guy based on your [TS]

00:31:03   theory but it doesn't matter because he [TS]

00:31:04   represents her I think he stopped being [TS]

00:31:06   a person and he started being V and yeah [TS]

00:31:09   he admit as much yeah yeah yeah he does [TS]

00:31:12   your right now [TS]

00:31:13   yeah the the valerie segment is is is [TS]

00:31:16   fantastic think about also when we see [TS]

00:31:17   Eevee reading the story and in the film [TS]

00:31:19   we think the chain goes Valerie to EV [TS]

00:31:23   that Valerie is inspiring EV perhaps to [TS]

00:31:25   do something you know it better and make [TS]

00:31:27   that decision what we learned later is [TS]

00:31:30   that the chain actually goes from [TS]

00:31:31   Valerie 2v2 EV because my galleries [TS]

00:31:34   letter inspired v he's the one who was [TS]

00:31:37   first inspired by it so that changes [TS]

00:31:39   longer she and he's replaying it for her [TS]

00:31:41   because he basically wants to make her [TS]

00:31:43   like him [TS]

00:31:43   yeah yeah in all the parallels of V + DV [TS]

00:31:46   name aside that is my favorite moment [TS]

00:31:49   because a valerie comes in at the most [TS]

00:31:52   bleak moment in the movie interleaf so [TS]

00:31:55   perfectly to give a little bit of levity [TS]

00:31:56   and beauty in the middle of this [TS]

00:31:59   extremely dark bleak terrible torture [TS]

00:32:01   scene and they they try that in watching [TS]

00:32:04   the details the black freighter it [TS]

00:32:05   failed miserably but it works really [TS]

00:32:07   well here and then I i have so many [TS]

00:32:10   problems with EV and v's relationship [TS]

00:32:13   but where the parallels between the two [TS]

00:32:16   of them and the moment when he goes [TS]

00:32:20   outside and finally evolved into a [TS]

00:32:22   Vaporeon in the rain that woman to come [TS]

00:32:24   back and forth with love the [TS]

00:32:29   uncomfortable that very very blatantly [TS]

00:32:34   obvious moment come back and forth with [TS]

00:32:36   the rising from the flames gives the EV [TS]

00:32:39   something that she didn't have before [TS]

00:32:42   but I don't think it comes to as full of [TS]

00:32:45   a point as these artists at the end of [TS]

00:32:47   movie they have been completely [TS]

00:32:48   different arcs and I've problem with the [TS]

00:32:50   love that she has for him but Evie at [TS]

00:32:52   least has some kind of different art [TS]

00:32:54   based on her rise to power in the rain [TS]

00:32:57   the movie tree TV better than the book [TS]

00:33:00   does oh yeah that's the plan [TS]

00:33:02   the book is it's just [TS]

00:33:04   the book just bothers me so much it is a [TS]

00:33:07   cult programming that the subjects [TS]

00:33:10   trapped and in fact you could argue that [TS]

00:33:12   the way she's introduced in a movie soft [TS]

00:33:14   petals this to it's very much like v [TS]

00:33:17   plucked a teen prostitute off the street [TS]

00:33:19   because she had her life was essentially [TS]

00:33:21   worthless and she wouldn't be missed in [TS]

00:33:23   order to program her to be what he [TS]

00:33:24   wanted her to be mean that is that is [TS]

00:33:26   some of that again is the structures in [TS]

00:33:28   the movie but in the book it's just [TS]

00:33:30   that's what it is right if you look at [TS]

00:33:32   the chow skis were generally speaking [TS]

00:33:34   like you can go into balance and there [TS]

00:33:36   are a few things their rates pretty [TS]

00:33:37   freaking high on the feminist meter oh [TS]

00:33:39   yeah you know they tweaked a few things [TS]

00:33:42   yeah they did turn her from me no [TS]

00:33:44   prostitute with someone that works at a [TS]

00:33:48   TV station absolutely important royal [TS]

00:33:51   you know she has agency all the way all [TS]

00:33:53   the way through so i just feel like this [TS]

00:33:56   is a good point to take a beat and say [TS]

00:33:58   in the goal of feminist critique of [TS]

00:34:01   media isn't saying you can't have things [TS]

00:34:04   happened women that are abysmal like is [TS]

00:34:06   its name saying you can't have rape [TS]

00:34:08   scenes you know it's saying you can't [TS]

00:34:10   think be more conscious about the [TS]

00:34:13   choices that you make and I have no [TS]

00:34:15   problem with anything that happens to [TS]

00:34:17   even in this film even though it is very [TS]

00:34:19   horrible because it's not trying to sell [TS]

00:34:22   v is like a Disney hero he's not this is [TS]

00:34:27   a wildly complicated movie and I i just [TS]

00:34:30   think that that really feeds into right [TS]

00:34:33   now and i'm gonna get a little bit [TS]

00:34:34   political i see people on the Left [TS]

00:34:36   people I respect really bearing system [TS]

00:34:39   some territory talk about violence [TS]

00:34:42   towards people with different political [TS]

00:34:45   views in a way that makes me wildly [TS]

00:34:47   uncomfortable so I think this this [TS]

00:34:50   message at the core of it of the really [TS]

00:34:52   being turned into a monster of e [TS]

00:34:55   becoming someone who goes too far [TS]

00:34:58   I think that's a message that people [TS]

00:35:00   would do very well to hear today [TS]

00:35:02   that's a really good point and also in [TS]

00:35:04   the movie compared to the book the [TS]

00:35:06   Wachowskis give EV so much more agency [TS]

00:35:08   on in the book VIII basically [TS]

00:35:11   brainwashing sir [TS]

00:35:12   yeah and she goes along and keeps doing [TS]

00:35:15   her thing in the movie [TS]

00:35:17   Evie actually leaves that she doesn't [TS]

00:35:20   come back into the end she she has been [TS]

00:35:22   she has been transformed by her [TS]

00:35:24   experience she can take some strength [TS]

00:35:27   from it but it's also something that she [TS]

00:35:30   can't abide at least for now and she [TS]

00:35:33   leaves and she chooses to come back [TS]

00:35:36   later she gets it [TS]

00:35:38   it's a much stronger character i think [TS]

00:35:40   given the fact that we still got the [TS]

00:35:42   bones of the torturing her [TS]

00:35:46   who's the hero of this movie so easy [TS]

00:35:48   even yeah definitely i agree with [TS]

00:35:50   everything you said guy but i still have [TS]

00:35:52   massive problems with the gas lighting [TS]

00:35:53   that V gives her in that know this was [TS]

00:35:56   your choice you're the one that wanted [TS]

00:35:57   to stay because you didn't give up any [TS]

00:35:59   information about me this was you [TS]

00:36:01   well Ivy to be perfectly frank I think [TS]

00:36:04   he's a bad guy didn't guy kills a lot of [TS]

00:36:07   people [TS]

00:36:07   the guy's a terrorist somebody knows [TS]

00:36:09   he's a monster he he doesn't and he [TS]

00:36:11   admits to being that the only good thing [TS]

00:36:13   you did like i said previously is that [TS]

00:36:14   he let Eevee decide whether or not to [TS]

00:36:17   send that train there is a really [TS]

00:36:19   interesting moment where and they it's [TS]

00:36:23   fascinating i I don't know if I noticed [TS]

00:36:25   it before but i really noticed that this [TS]

00:36:26   time v hopes that when he reveals that [TS]

00:36:30   it's him to EV that she will basically [TS]

00:36:33   love him for it and yet it because he [TS]

00:36:36   says he says as she's going through this [TS]

00:36:39   he's like I wonder if you might dance [TS]

00:36:40   with me like he says that he doesn't [TS]

00:36:42   just say it went later when she comes [TS]

00:36:44   back and they dance [TS]

00:36:45   he says that right when she gets out and [TS]

00:36:47   she's she doesn't even respond to it [TS]

00:36:49   she's just like I am getting out of here [TS]

00:36:50   and he's like yeah well that's yeah I [TS]

00:36:52   figured that you might but he but no he [TS]

00:36:54   actually holds out hope that he will [TS]

00:36:56   have like magically transform which i [TS]

00:36:58   think is interesting because it's the [TS]

00:36:59   characters weakness is that he you know [TS]

00:37:01   he believes things that are going to [TS]

00:37:04   come out of what he did that are [TS]

00:37:05   completely unrealistic i think it is the [TS]

00:37:07   thing that redeems this movie I because [TS]

00:37:10   of that because of her reaction the fact [TS]

00:37:12   that she's allowed to leave and go [TS]

00:37:13   somewhere else and take care of herself [TS]

00:37:15   and and just she just steps away and and [TS]

00:37:19   he doesn't help her or anything she [TS]

00:37:21   finds her own way but that said I it [TS]

00:37:24   gives me a little pause only because the [TS]

00:37:26   structure of it is that we're supposed [TS]

00:37:28   to think he's a hero and I know he's not [TS]

00:37:30   here [TS]

00:37:30   around here but like it still gives me [TS]

00:37:34   pause that this character that we've [TS]

00:37:35   kind of been rooting for does this [TS]

00:37:37   terrible thing also just replied [TS]

00:37:39   practical standpoint the way the movie [TS]

00:37:41   is shot all of the scenes where Eevee is [TS]

00:37:44   being captured and tortured and all that [TS]

00:37:47   you can't tell whether those people are [TS]

00:37:50   real or anything like that and and so [TS]

00:37:54   there's that reveal I do kind of have a [TS]

00:37:57   very hard time with those scenes because [TS]

00:37:59   you know those are the shots that we see [TS]

00:38:02   but she's living at the whole time she [TS]

00:38:04   has to be taken from room to room by [TS]

00:38:06   people and sat down and things like that [TS]

00:38:08   and I don't really believe that one guy [TS]

00:38:11   in a various with mannequins and some [TS]

00:38:13   masks could really pull that off is in [TS]

00:38:16   this makes sense because he's chinese [TS]

00:38:18   cutting off your hair and stuff and when [TS]

00:38:20   clearly you know this is this is why I [TS]

00:38:22   think he's more of an idea i think she's [TS]

00:38:24   tortured by the idea of freedom in my [TS]

00:38:27   head candidates he has some interns who [TS]

00:38:30   we never see but they are there to help [TS]

00:38:32   him with his in prison experiment maybe [TS]

00:38:34   maybe also purchased a hundred [TS]

00:38:36   thousand-plus guy fawkes suits for the [TS]

00:38:39   entire yeah that there's some economic [TS]

00:38:43   haha i accept the absurdity and D it's [TS]

00:38:46   not a literal movie it's a movie about [TS]

00:38:49   ideas and when v is torturing her [TS]

00:38:52   it's awful I it's also a movie and sure [TS]

00:38:58   is it is like he is telling the truth I [TS]

00:39:01   think she's being tortured by an idea [TS]

00:39:03   and you could argue argue in a situation [TS]

00:39:05   like that where being tortured that it's [TS]

00:39:06   all hallucinatory anyway right i mean [TS]

00:39:08   that that she doesn't have to make sense [TS]

00:39:10   because who knows what she saw or what [TS]

00:39:12   she understood she may have it may have [TS]

00:39:14   not been that great an artifice but she [TS]

00:39:16   was so confused and messed up that [TS]

00:39:17   there's that chic believed that it was [TS]

00:39:20   because that was the story she was being [TS]

00:39:21   told i can I kind of accept that and [TS]

00:39:23   that we're sort of seeing it through her [TS]

00:39:25   is because we pause though cuz i think [TS]

00:39:27   really i mean he's good but is he that [TS]

00:39:29   good a little late so I don't remember [TS]

00:39:31   the first time I saw this movie and at [TS]

00:39:33   the end [TS]

00:39:34   really at the end when people start [TS]

00:39:37   taking off the masks [TS]

00:39:38   I sort of understood like this movie [TS]

00:39:41   should not be taken literally literally [TS]

00:39:43   ran it should be taken as move almost [TS]

00:39:46   metaphorically [TS]

00:39:47   yeah i just can't go that far yeah I [TS]

00:39:50   know I know it's hard because I've [TS]

00:39:52   watched it again just tonight and I was [TS]

00:39:54   like this is he's a bad guy [TS]

00:39:57   it's hard yeah it's all the [TS]

00:39:58   quote-unquote hero is an awful person [TS]

00:40:01   the story's all the TV every time i [TS]

00:40:03   watch this I waffle back and forth [TS]

00:40:05   between whether or not the ending works [TS]

00:40:06   for me or doesn't work for me because [TS]

00:40:08   sometimes it just gets a little too [TS]

00:40:11   close to magical realism with all the [TS]

00:40:12   dead people coming back at the end but [TS]

00:40:14   tonight it worked for me i thought i was [TS]

00:40:16   a sweet moment even though like we're [TS]

00:40:17   celebrating a terrorist blowing up [TS]

00:40:19   Parliament it was a weird moment from [TS]

00:40:20   yeah obviously nobody blow up Parliament [TS]

00:40:23   but at the same time maybe maybe there's [TS]

00:40:26   a cause out there in the world you're [TS]

00:40:27   upset about having a giant rally is [TS]

00:40:30   probably something you should think [TS]

00:40:33   about well even like you know i would [TS]

00:40:34   say in America I have grown up with [TS]

00:40:37   always seeing these big crowds all by [TS]

00:40:40   most recently but it's always been [TS]

00:40:44   somewhere else it's always been outside [TS]

00:40:47   the US where you see crowds gathering in [TS]

00:40:49   streets [TS]

00:40:50   I mean I'm just I've never seen it like [TS]

00:40:52   where we've stood up on something and [TS]

00:40:55   actually taken to the streets it always [TS]

00:40:57   seems like it happened somewhere else [TS]

00:40:59   this movie brings up a lot of ethical [TS]

00:41:02   conflict right because i like a lot of [TS]

00:41:04   people and thinking what the frak can I [TS]

00:41:06   do I am somebody's choosing to work [TS]

00:41:08   within the system right as much as I can [TS]

00:41:11   and hope that that's how we can bring [TS]

00:41:13   about change but you know it takes all [TS]

00:41:17   kinds of young people know yeah I don't [TS]

00:41:19   advocate violence at all i think that's [TS]

00:41:22   the moment that we've really crossed a [TS]

00:41:24   line in America but I think like crowds [TS]

00:41:27   going outside and demonstrating I see [TS]

00:41:29   this film is being really a reboot of a [TS]

00:41:32   kind of anger fantasy from like a white [TS]

00:41:36   male libertarian dude and I see it [TS]

00:41:39   really turned into you from a fairly [TS]

00:41:42   clear cast our fair [TS]

00:41:44   a quitter set of riders and really [TS]

00:41:46   turned into a really modern story about [TS]

00:41:50   oppression systematic oppression so I i [TS]

00:41:53   just think that it's it's a very very [TS]

00:41:56   deep story about you what's going on [TS]

00:41:59   right now and i also have to say I think [TS]

00:42:01   part of that change is why there were [TS]

00:42:05   some of those reviewers that weren't [TS]

00:42:07   pleased with this interpretation other [TS]

00:42:09   because it's it's crossing this thing [TS]

00:42:13   this made for them and they're casting [TS]

00:42:15   it wider and that upsets people that's a [TS]

00:42:18   really good point i'm not surprised that [TS]

00:42:20   the v mask has been co-opted in the way [TS]

00:42:22   that has yeah yeah yeah totally i have a [TS]

00:42:25   question about the voltage these [TS]

00:42:26   specific terrorist violence here because [TS]

00:42:29   i think it goes to what we were saying [TS]

00:42:30   about v being a bad guy and we see him [TS]

00:42:32   torture EV and you know she's right to [TS]

00:42:35   basically take her life into her own [TS]

00:42:37   hands at that point but you know bottom [TS]

00:42:40   line is he blows up the old bailey and [TS]

00:42:42   he blows a parliament that beginning of [TS]

00:42:44   the end he has her hehe provides her [TS]

00:42:45   with the opportunity to blow up [TS]

00:42:47   Parliament and I i think you know i am [TS]

00:42:50   of two minds about that were sometimes I [TS]

00:42:51   think that because vs is a difficult [TS]

00:42:55   character and we're not supposed to root [TS]

00:42:57   for everything he does that him him [TS]

00:42:59   being violent like that is ok or that [TS]

00:43:02   this situation is perhaps so extreme [TS]

00:43:04   that is what is required and the other [TS]

00:43:06   part of me thinks I don't know if I want [TS]

00:43:08   to root for the people who were blowing [TS]

00:43:10   up buildings even if there is late at [TS]

00:43:12   night and they have defended enough [TS]

00:43:14   words late at night and it's probably [TS]

00:43:15   nobody there and there are pretty [TS]

00:43:16   fireworks and music to go yeah i mean [TS]

00:43:18   obviously blowing up a federal building [TS]

00:43:20   do not do that also do like that no i [TS]

00:43:23   will not only really hate you for that [TS]

00:43:25   yeah yeah I'm the old Billy food those [TS]

00:43:29   not familiar is sort of the main [TS]

00:43:31   courthouse in London it's it's [TS]

00:43:33   old-school old-school justice [TS]

00:43:35   yeah that's where the statue on the time [TS]

00:43:37   but usually what that stands for ya [TS]

00:43:39   so in taking that out first in the book [TS]

00:43:42   by the way target yeah he blows up he [TS]

00:43:44   blows up he blows up to the Parliament [TS]

00:43:46   at the beginning on on the 15 november [TS]

00:43:49   and then the last thing that gets blown [TS]

00:43:51   up is number ten Downing Street actually [TS]

00:43:53   at the very end so yeah [TS]

00:43:55   move that stuff around i think also [TS]

00:43:57   smartly attitude that gets the old [TS]

00:43:59   bailey in the middle somewhere right I [TS]

00:44:00   guess I'm willing to give it a break [TS]

00:44:02   because it is a movie I don't think it's [TS]

00:44:04   literally calling for violence [TS]

00:44:06   no he also tells him that he's gonna [TS]

00:44:08   blow stuff up and he blows up the Bailey [TS]

00:44:09   at midnight which is not right [TS]

00:44:12   I i like to think that he wasn't killing [TS]

00:44:13   people because we see him well she was [TS]

00:44:16   so anyway tax a TV station [TS]

00:44:19   he'll he murders a lot of cops oh yeah [TS]

00:44:22   but he doesn't murder all of those [TS]

00:44:24   civilians who just happened to know even [TS]

00:44:26   the guy with the ball is in his mouth [TS]

00:44:28   right yeah he leaves that guy there you [TS]

00:44:30   know he'll try to think that the cops [TS]

00:44:32   are gonna show the guy that shoot the [TS]

00:44:33   guys that are just as him but like he's [TS]

00:44:37   got he's got some kind of restraint [TS]

00:44:39   there are only really two major like [TS]

00:44:42   action scenes where you get the quote [TS]

00:44:44   superhero effect at the end at it is [TS]

00:44:48   near his demise and when he begins his [TS]

00:44:51   brigade at the TV station which I you [TS]

00:44:55   know in in watching it a couple times [TS]

00:44:57   watched last week and I watched today it [TS]

00:45:00   was really weird seeing the lack of [TS]

00:45:03   action after seeing so many Marvel and [TS]

00:45:07   DC movies since then like it was weird [TS]

00:45:11   to see a movie that was I i use this [TS]

00:45:14   very very tentatively but a cerebral [TS]

00:45:18   movie that quote is superheroes [TS]

00:45:21   there's a lot of action like the first [TS]

00:45:22   30 minutes and then it really shifts [TS]

00:45:25   gears and there isn't a lot until later [TS]

00:45:28   yeah I think of it as more of a dramatic [TS]

00:45:30   movie than an action movie yeah [TS]

00:45:32   definitely I feel like the Cherokees [TS]

00:45:34   know that people buy tickets to go see [TS]

00:45:35   action so that you know you get some [TS]

00:45:39   action but this was not an action movie [TS]

00:45:41   it you know who's got the incredibly [TS]

00:45:44   personal violence of all the [TS]

00:45:46   high-profile deaths in the middle where [TS]

00:45:48   v comes in almost like a suspense horror [TS]

00:45:50   movie at times and it offers a few [TS]

00:45:53   people one by one in very tense ways and [TS]

00:45:55   it's not the kind of impersonal James [TS]

00:45:57   Bond adventures violence were used to [TS]

00:45:59   that comes at the beginning and the end [TS]

00:46:00   but there's still a lot there in the [TS]

00:46:02   middle know when he sits down with the [TS]

00:46:04   coroner [TS]

00:46:05   and daughters i love that Delilah [TS]

00:46:07   Delilah that scene is probably one of my [TS]

00:46:09   favorites falls far short of the [TS]

00:46:12   evaluations but man i love that that's [TS]

00:46:16   that's right i'll be home ready in 10 [TS]

00:46:18   minutes ago while you sleep like would [TS]

00:46:21   be wrong to apologize now as he said he [TS]

00:46:24   says no hehe provides her kind of [TS]

00:46:26   kindness and you know that she you know [TS]

00:46:28   she regrets as you want to hang yourself [TS]

00:46:31   yeah yeah yeah yeah I guess I i can [TS]

00:46:34   struggle without for the same reason [TS]

00:46:36   um and there's some people there's a one [TS]

00:46:38   of my favorite games his tomb raider [TS]

00:46:40   right I it has some really grisly death [TS]

00:46:43   scenes where Laura is killed and makes a [TS]

00:46:46   lot of our players unhappy and you at [TS]

00:46:48   the same time every single person who [TS]

00:46:50   killed in that game as a guy i am always [TS]

00:46:53   yes sorry it came out in 2013 [TS]

00:46:55   I'm always a little hesitant it movies [TS]

00:46:59   that kind of pull their punches when and [TS]

00:47:01   don't come to give women the same you [TS]

00:47:04   don't treat women the same ways as the [TS]

00:47:06   men are treated if you look at you know [TS]

00:47:08   throw in all of that you know they are [TS]

00:47:11   given a really violent bloody end and [TS]

00:47:15   you know she's treated a lot work with a [TS]

00:47:18   little bit more respect and maybe you [TS]

00:47:19   can read that like I think the generous [TS]

00:47:21   reading is you see it is an [TS]

00:47:23   interpretation of her characters having [TS]

00:47:25   some remorse [TS]

00:47:26   yeah about the things that she did like [TS]

00:47:28   as evidence by her diary but why did [TS]

00:47:31   they assign that wrote that motherly [TS]

00:47:33   gold yeah character yeah why would she [TS]

00:47:35   be the only one to show remorse [TS]

00:47:37   that's good that's a real good point [TS]

00:47:39   what bothers me it bothers me a free [TS]

00:47:41   when you talk about the Wachowskis kind [TS]

00:47:42   of read altering this movie triggering [TS]

00:47:44   this movie you close reading between the [TS]

00:47:46   comic in the movie you will probably see [TS]

00:47:49   in many locations like changes they made [TS]

00:47:51   for these specific reasons but with [TS]

00:47:54   leaving the structure behind and I it [TS]

00:47:57   that's basically how I read it in the [TS]

00:47:58   movie is that look that you know that [TS]

00:48:00   character was a woman and she you know [TS]

00:48:02   and then they had that scene together [TS]

00:48:03   and so they left it but i do think your [TS]

00:48:06   you see the bones thereof [TS]

00:48:08   Alan Moore's decisions in the eighties [TS]

00:48:11   behind it right if you read the book [TS]

00:48:13   it's very interesting because they go [TS]

00:48:14   way way [TS]

00:48:16   Warren depth with her character she was [TS]

00:48:18   having like a romance with the the lead [TS]

00:48:20   detective who you know kind of chooses [TS]

00:48:23   not to shoot TV at the end so she's a [TS]

00:48:26   much more complex character the [TS]

00:48:27   Wachowskis had in mind when they you [TS]

00:48:30   know adapted this film this book from [TS]

00:48:32   their script [TS]

00:48:34   I'm just saying that one little part [TS]

00:48:36   bothers with the casting of bishop as [TS]

00:48:39   basically molester [TS]

00:48:41   yeah we got it like it's a little longer [TS]

00:48:44   there is controlling your notes yeah [TS]

00:48:46   that's right on the nose it's just too [TS]

00:48:47   easy [TS]

00:48:48   well back in 80 back in 82 yeah that's [TS]

00:48:51   it not so now it's like yeah we know [TS]

00:48:55   like that's a serious problem but yeah [TS]

00:48:59   but a second 82 made sense and I think [TS]

00:49:02   again like judgments and it was like [TS]

00:49:04   well they just left it I think it's kind [TS]

00:49:06   of a funny weird creepy scene also since [TS]

00:49:09   she's sort of like is saying the truth [TS]

00:49:11   of like I've been held captive by the [TS]

00:49:13   terrorists and i love that she was [TS]

00:49:15   trying to escape [TS]

00:49:16   yeah but she wanted out in the comic you [TS]

00:49:18   know EV is young is very young I mean I [TS]

00:49:22   think she's 15 but she looks very young [TS]

00:49:24   and in that seems they have her dress [TS]

00:49:26   young and look young for the for the the [TS]

00:49:29   priest because he wants a girl little [TS]

00:49:32   girl and they and they still say the [TS]

00:49:34   same line she's older than you're used [TS]

00:49:35   to and all that they kept this with [TS]

00:49:38   natalie portman and I guess they can get [TS]

00:49:40   away with it because they have her like [TS]

00:49:42   with the with her hair up and the dress [TS]

00:49:44   and all of that but still it's calling [TS]

00:49:46   really you know they give their best but [TS]

00:49:49   it's like she I didn't believe it even [TS]

00:49:51   though it that was what the script and [TS]

00:49:53   had them behave [TS]

00:49:54   I just don't believe it that she's gonna [TS]

00:49:55   really come across as a as a little girl [TS]

00:49:58   there because it's Natalie port but you [TS]

00:50:00   know I guess you go with it [TS]

00:50:01   I think that scene goes too far in that [TS]

00:50:03   I'm sitting there cringing the entire [TS]

00:50:05   time and it seemed that I think goes on [TS]

00:50:06   way too long and he gets in the way of a [TS]

00:50:08   really important character moment for ev [TS]

00:50:10   where she tries to escape but cans and [TS]

00:50:13   then V is freaking out about the fact [TS]

00:50:16   that she tried to out him and I'm not [TS]

00:50:19   collected enough again until she's at [TS]

00:50:22   stephen Fry's house at that point I [TS]

00:50:23   completely forget what was happening [TS]

00:50:24   this tonight was the only time I've ever [TS]

00:50:27   seen the movie where i was able to [TS]

00:50:28   actually piece together the dots that [TS]

00:50:30   there when you see her escape you see [TS]

00:50:32   what was happening because I for one was [TS]

00:50:34   able to completely listen to the [TS]

00:50:36   dialogue and what was happening with EV [TS]

00:50:38   rather than freaking the hell out of [TS]

00:50:40   this Bishop trying to get well I mean [TS]

00:50:42   one thing is troubling is that and this [TS]

00:50:45   is kind of common whenever you try to [TS]

00:50:47   write and film a scene like this is that [TS]

00:50:50   you run the risk of titillating the east [TS]

00:50:52   on the thing that you're trying to damn [TS]

00:50:54   and like this was awkward it's like why [TS]

00:50:57   they put in that we put them in this [TS]

00:50:59   weird integrated housing issue with it [TS]

00:51:02   then you lose the effect and why is he [TS]

00:51:03   going on so long [TS]

00:51:05   exactly yeah like yeah I mean it was [TS]

00:51:07   revolting it's meant to be reporting it [TS]

00:51:09   worked on that level but that took me [TS]

00:51:12   out like dead [TS]

00:51:13   it had I mean I don't know how to handle [TS]

00:51:17   this better [TS]

00:51:18   well right because it's straight from [TS]

00:51:20   the comic book yeah like yeah the [TS]

00:51:22   existing from the comic but i think what [TS]

00:51:24   to me what made this uncomfortable I [TS]

00:51:26   don't do it the film scripts it Natalie [TS]

00:51:29   Portman has spoken out on so many [TS]

00:51:31   occasions how uncomfortable it is for [TS]

00:51:34   her as an actress that are you [TS]

00:51:36   apparently people that have that [TS]

00:51:39   particular thing are really into [TS]

00:51:42   pictures of her when she was a child you [TS]

00:51:45   know when she was younger actress so [TS]

00:51:47   she's talked on the record many times [TS]

00:51:50   about how uncomfortable it makes her and [TS]

00:51:51   I'm like really the Wachowskis like [TS]

00:51:54   they're going to put her in that [TS]

00:51:55   situation that's just I I wouldn't have [TS]

00:51:57   written that scene but I mean I think it [TS]

00:51:59   makes that you know her betrayal of e i [TS]

00:52:02   think is a I think it's a damning moment [TS]

00:52:05   for her character too so ridiculous [TS]

00:52:07   scene from her but I audience i thought [TS]

00:52:10   it was good really [TS]

00:52:12   yes yes it seemed before it and she says [TS]

00:52:14   look I need you to understand AB&C about [TS]

00:52:16   Maisie's kidnapped her and he's crazy [TS]

00:52:19   and you want to get out [TS]

00:52:20   well I i see it like icv asking her to [TS]

00:52:23   stay there for a year is kind of a [TS]

00:52:25   reasonable thing like she will get [TS]

00:52:27   hunted and killed on the outside was [TS]

00:52:29   just a fat right so i can only see that [TS]

00:52:33   yeah but he's being selfish right he's [TS]

00:52:34   being selfish because she knows where he [TS]

00:52:36   lives [TS]

00:52:37   I think that's part of it yeah but i [TS]

00:52:38   think it's it's just it's a plan overall [TS]

00:52:41   the I understand [TS]

00:52:42   right and then she's she's talking to [TS]

00:52:44   him she's like look I need you to [TS]

00:52:46   understand this about me and they killed [TS]

00:52:47   my parents you know they sent me to the [TS]

00:52:50   center to reprogram me I want to help in [TS]

00:52:52   any way I can't the way i read that [TS]

00:52:54   scene is it she chickens out in the last [TS]

00:52:57   moment like she was going to go through [TS]

00:52:59   and help him and down fails [TS]

00:53:01   yeah I kind of just assumed that that [TS]

00:53:03   was your plan because she said like look [TS]

00:53:04   I'm gonna help you [TS]

00:53:05   everyone knowing that it would that [TS]

00:53:09   would afford her an opportunity to get [TS]

00:53:11   out and get help [TS]

00:53:13   oh yeah i don't know and i think it's i [TS]

00:53:15   think you can read it either way [TS]

00:53:17   like when she decided to do that mission [TS]

00:53:19   is she really going into it all the way [TS]

00:53:21   or is she sort of me because she's kind [TS]

00:53:23   of stalling while he gets their sochi [TS]

00:53:24   half-heartedly giving him this [TS]

00:53:26   information [TS]

00:53:27   yeah this is all part of my not argument [TS]

00:53:30   but my thesis is a thesis I'm gonna get [TS]

00:53:33   a doctorate in this uh-huh it's here it [TS]

00:53:36   is guys wacky theory my headcanon and [TS]

00:53:41   izzy is an idea this is her struggling [TS]

00:53:44   with accepting the idea all right right [TS]

00:53:46   okay look forward to your your your [TS]

00:53:49   thesis on this yeah yeah you should get [TS]

00:53:52   an English PhD and i write this but also [TS]

00:53:54   you have any record in a bunch of yarn [TS]

00:53:56   to connect all pay a sum I think the [TS]

00:53:59   things that we see in the movie don't [TS]

00:54:01   make sense so we cannot take it [TS]

00:54:03   literally [TS]

00:54:03   so given we can take it literally why [TS]

00:54:07   don't we just run with the idea that [TS]

00:54:08   haha i keep pushing back against this [TS]

00:54:11   guy because because the it is more [TS]

00:54:15   literal in the book in the source videos [TS]

00:54:18   in Vietnam it so so and I and I come to [TS]

00:54:21   this from having read the book back when [TS]

00:54:23   DC published it in the u.s. so i can't i [TS]

00:54:27   can't not look at this as an adapter as [TS]

00:54:29   an adaptation so that makes it much [TS]

00:54:32   harder for me to look at it as a [TS]

00:54:34   metaphorical story when in in the in the [TS]

00:54:38   source material it was intended to be [TS]

00:54:40   more more one-to-one I think honestly I [TS]

00:54:44   think you're right [TS]

00:54:45   a gym at that thank you to leave it I'm [TS]

00:54:47   gonna be happy of thinking the other [TS]

00:54:48   thing so [TS]

00:54:51   for me as someone who's never read the [TS]

00:54:53   book the fact that this movie is so [TS]

00:54:56   metaphorical comes through in the very [TS]

00:54:59   end when how are we supposed to feel [TS]

00:55:00   we're happy that the apartments blown up [TS]

00:55:02   we feel emotions about Evie saying and [TS]

00:55:07   that's why i love this man and the fact [TS]

00:55:10   that they added that love story in and [TS]

00:55:13   Evie's arc is about that coming to love [TS]

00:55:15   this man instead of the idea because she [TS]

00:55:18   keeps saying I it's not the idea i miss [TS]

00:55:20   it's the man it's the man that is what [TS]

00:55:22   makes me feel like this movie is so much [TS]

00:55:24   more metaphorical than the book because [TS]

00:55:27   the ending beats really don't work for [TS]

00:55:29   me I i have to say if you read as a love [TS]

00:55:31   story i could not a groove to love me I [TS]

00:55:34   don't read as a love story but she says [TS]

00:55:37   that she loves the man in the same way [TS]

00:55:39   in the same way that ties back to the [TS]

00:55:42   same the cell with the gay woman like [TS]

00:55:44   she's talking about how like I even [TS]

00:55:45   though i may not know your whole tree or [TS]

00:55:47   kiss you I want you to know i love you [TS]

00:55:49   just as a person and I think it's just [TS]

00:55:51   mirroring the exact same idea out its [TS]

00:55:55   respect like this is v's arc she starts [TS]

00:55:58   to someone who's beaten down her parents [TS]

00:56:00   were taken from her like well she's [TS]

00:56:01   hiding under the bed she sent to a camp [TS]

00:56:03   the reprograms her then she goes and [TS]

00:56:06   becomes part of this medium machine that [TS]

00:56:08   helps misinform the entire public she [TS]

00:56:10   was instrumental v captures our tortures [TS]

00:56:13   her changes her she has entire arc is a [TS]

00:56:16   character she reaches inside her she [TS]

00:56:18   finds strength she didn't know she had [TS]

00:56:19   and then like she's the one that flips [TS]

00:56:22   the switch again and she loves be as a [TS]

00:56:26   person in that same it's not like she [TS]

00:56:29   still has she still very guarded in [TS]

00:56:32   those scenes you can see her keeping her [TS]

00:56:33   distance is just more respect I read [TS]

00:56:36   yeah I don't she'll of yours either last [TS]

00:56:38   line is very clear she says he was my [TS]

00:56:40   mother and father and brother and Raven [TS]

00:56:42   cheat meal is a lot of reading and thank [TS]

00:56:44   you mother is not one of them right did [TS]

00:56:47   not what his role is to I I could have [TS]

00:56:50   done without the kids on the mask i have [TS]

00:56:52   to say i could have done it because I'm [TS]

00:56:55   is everything was bad yeah I did write [TS]

00:56:57   down the line that we was just talking [TS]

00:57:00   about because I was crying so I went [TS]

00:57:05   down even though i do not know you and [TS]

00:57:07   even though I may never meet you [TS]

00:57:09   laughs with you cry with you or kiss you [TS]

00:57:11   I love you with all my heart and let him [TS]

00:57:13   that is to me [TS]

00:57:15   probably the court moment of the movie [TS]

00:57:18   yes absolutely and and it's and it's [TS]

00:57:20   lifted straight from alan moore script [TS]

00:57:22   yeah yeah I you we speaking of the end [TS]

00:57:26   of the movie if it and this is where i [TS]

00:57:29   could buy into a certain standard of the [TS]

00:57:31   guy English theory the the are the army [TS]

00:57:35   of marchers in their newly FedExed guy [TS]

00:57:40   fawkes masks and outfits and you know [TS]

00:57:43   ending with this sort of this triumphant [TS]

00:57:45   march of the pickup of the people and [TS]

00:57:48   even before that throughout this movie [TS]

00:57:50   every time you see civilians watching TV [TS]

00:57:53   are watching watching Stephen Fry's show [TS]

00:57:56   watching the watching political [TS]

00:58:00   statements in the propaganda on TV [TS]

00:58:01   the people are not buying it the people [TS]

00:58:04   are enjoying laughing at subtler I I get [TS]

00:58:08   the feeling that this movie expect it [TS]

00:58:12   has a very very optimistic sense of how [TS]

00:58:15   people living under fascism actually [TS]

00:58:17   react to it seems like everybody's a [TS]

00:58:19   good person who's just being who's being [TS]

00:58:22   held down by the man when you get in [TS]

00:58:26   there in the early going [TS]

00:58:27   you do get these speech about a accusing [TS]

00:58:32   the population of having let this happen [TS]

00:58:34   having this chosen but i think it gets [TS]

00:58:36   undermined by the whole rest of the [TS]

00:58:38   movie and I'm maybe I'm just really [TS]

00:58:43   really cynical and discouraged about [TS]

00:58:44   current politics but I that's it that's [TS]

00:58:50   an awful lot of people who are [TS]

00:58:52   apparently who apparently never really [TS]

00:58:56   voted for Norris fire and a parent will [TS]

00:58:58   be never really wanted what was going on [TS]

00:59:00   and I just don't buy it [TS]

00:59:02   wow thats dark chip no user and these [TS]

00:59:05   are canada's our time [TS]

00:59:06   well I do like the way the truth the [TS]

00:59:08   people are treated there is a scene very [TS]

00:59:09   early on where we see all the people [TS]

00:59:11   when he takes over the TV station we see [TS]

00:59:13   all the people who are watching in the [TS]

00:59:15   like in the pub and everywhere the [TS]

00:59:18   family at home they're watching and that [TS]

00:59:21   scene is replayed at the end when [TS]

00:59:24   they're trying to get everybody to not [TS]

00:59:28   worry about Vee and and nobody in all [TS]

00:59:32   those locations there's nobody there and [TS]

00:59:35   that's because everybody is marching and [TS]

00:59:37   I like i did my favorite moment like [TS]

00:59:39   those to cut and you know you know you [TS]

00:59:41   have to be paying attention is like why [TS]

00:59:43   are they showing that the TV and that [TS]

00:59:45   empty bar and it's because that's where [TS]

00:59:46   all the people used to be and they're [TS]

00:59:47   not there anymore because now they're [TS]

00:59:49   out marching I I like that part of it [TS]

00:59:51   but yeah I can see your point chip which [TS]

00:59:52   is you know it is it is it their fault [TS]

00:59:55   or not or is it beyond that which is [TS]

00:59:57   like look at some point you have to [TS]

00:59:58   stand up and they didn't stand [TS]

00:59:58   stand up and they didn't stand [TS]

01:00:00   d'Epinay allowed the the country to get [TS]

01:00:01   to this point but within their fear [TS]

01:00:03   about the attacks and all that but [TS]

01:00:05   they're not allowing it [TS]

01:00:06   they crystallise around this idea of v2 [TS]

01:00:09   not allow it to go on on any further I [TS]

01:00:11   mean it is kind of fantasy like Jason [TS]

01:00:13   but yeah it was yeah it's very much [TS]

01:00:16   fantasy [TS]

01:00:16   yeah that's why I think he's an idea if [TS]

01:00:18   you do see you to see flashes a bigger [TS]

01:00:20   population in here like remember the [TS]

01:00:22   scene in the BBC station with the guy [TS]

01:00:25   watching laser laughs like keys hell yea [TS]

01:00:27   dressings added just to watch the people [TS]

01:00:29   there to out that don't get it [TS]

01:00:32   yeah you see it in like the the nursing [TS]

01:00:34   home shots of them reacting to vtv we're [TS]

01:00:37   just kind of like what I don't gather [TS]

01:00:40   and yes finches role like Finch is that [TS]

01:00:43   guy [TS]

01:00:44   yeah that's apart an inner party member [TS]

01:00:47   and who is is seeing this all these [TS]

01:00:51   things lining up and like do I really [TS]

01:00:53   want to ask these questions if you know [TS]

01:00:56   if God's there to protect me if my [TS]

01:00:58   country's there to protect me then [TS]

01:00:59   should you know what i do i really want [TS]

01:01:02   to know if they they're the ones that [TS]

01:01:03   are actually hurting me [TS]

01:01:04   we haven't mentioned Steven Reyes pinch [TS]

01:01:06   but yea he's the he's got a fantastic [TS]

01:01:07   fantastic he's got to investigate this [TS]

01:01:09   is with his friend of Rupert graves who [TS]

01:01:11   is a of course from from Sherlock you [TS]

01:01:15   know he was always a cop asshole [TS]

01:01:17   they they seem array in the end you know [TS]

01:01:19   he keeps following his instincts as a [TS]

01:01:22   cop back to what happened at lark hell [TS]

01:01:26   and he's told several times not to he's [TS]

01:01:29   threatened he says I've been a member [TS]

01:01:30   this party for 20 years but he keeps [TS]

01:01:32   following this he says 22 Rupert graves [TS]

01:01:35   uh you know how far are we willing to go [TS]

01:01:38   here because you know he realizes just [TS]

01:01:41   what he's doing up here and again i [TS]

01:01:44   would say in a more conventional movie [TS]

01:01:45   structure this would this be [TS]

01:01:48   he's essentially like the crusading [TS]

01:01:49   reporter kind of character digging up [TS]

01:01:52   the real truth and it's it's you know [TS]

01:01:54   it's a less a part of the story then [TS]

01:01:56   maybe it might have been in a another [TS]

01:01:58   movie but he is the he does represent [TS]

01:02:00   like a good person who wants to do the [TS]

01:02:04   right thing here even though he's a [TS]

01:02:05   party member and he's in this government [TS]

01:02:07   he is following the truth and in the end [TS]

01:02:10   he let Stevie you know he doesn't he [TS]

01:02:13   doesn't [TS]

01:02:13   shoot her he doesn't stop her he lets [TS]

01:02:15   her go I did hate the montage know like [TS]

01:02:18   the date the explanation so yeah where I [TS]

01:02:22   see I'm i went over to lark hill and I [TS]

01:02:24   then I see the future blah blah [TS]

01:02:26   that felt like compression I was I was [TS]

01:02:29   good with it gives otherwise I don't [TS]

01:02:30   know how we would have strong little [TS]

01:02:32   things together you need some you know [TS]

01:02:35   either you need a character that you [TS]

01:02:37   need to explain it to or you needed to [TS]

01:02:39   get some kind of trip like that I i just [TS]

01:02:42   saw his pure or Chomsky like [TS]

01:02:44   metaphysical months that's like the [TS]

01:02:45   synthetic people enjoyed the make sure [TS]

01:02:47   people out the dead sensate and you know [TS]

01:02:51   like they are all in on that the this [TS]

01:02:53   people Cloud Atlas i get these are the [TS]

01:02:56   people that have this idea that we're [TS]

01:02:58   all connected and there are no [TS]

01:02:59   coincidences and we're living this [TS]

01:03:01   thing's the same story over and over and [TS]

01:03:03   over again that's there that's your teal [TS]

01:03:05   if he wanted to one of their films like [TS]

01:03:08   you better get ready for it so yeah I [TS]

01:03:10   was I was I was just their creative [TS]

01:03:13   wonder last yeah that's what I mean [TS]

01:03:15   about non-literal is just like stop [TS]

01:03:18   thinking just go for it like enjoy this [TS]

01:03:20   get what you can out of it it will begin [TS]

01:03:22   I want to say a word about Stephen Fry [TS]

01:03:26   because it's the uncomfortable we have [TS]

01:03:27   to talk about Stephen Fry it's days even [TS]

01:03:30   tries to drive peers in this movie as [TS]

01:03:32   Dietrich and he's I you know I enjoy his [TS]

01:03:36   he's really got one major spot he's got [TS]

01:03:39   two major sins i guess i enjoy the scene [TS]

01:03:40   where he goes to his house and he is [TS]

01:03:44   honest with her but also sort of like [TS]

01:03:47   letting her letting her figure [TS]

01:03:50   everything out and so she she makes [TS]

01:03:54   assumptions because she was sent in the [TS]

01:03:55   beginning of the movie she's going over [TS]

01:03:57   to his house because he's a TV star and [TS]

01:04:00   all that and she's going to sleep with [TS]

01:04:02   him but he he he shows he shows kindness [TS]

01:04:05   to her and then he shows her his [TS]

01:04:07   collection of banned books and he's got [TS]

01:04:09   a Koran and he's got he's got to [TS]

01:04:11   generate art that I think they did it [TS]

01:04:13   that is a direct reference to the Nazi [TS]

01:04:16   policies about art it is it is you know [TS]

01:04:19   he has the he has literally the [TS]

01:04:21   degenerate art collection it behind his [TS]

01:04:24   secret door [TS]

01:04:24   also i love a secret door [TS]

01:04:26   he's got he's got the secret door you [TS]

01:04:28   gotta have that in anyhow I wish I my [TS]

01:04:30   house at a secret door and and she sees [TS]

01:04:33   the she sees the photos on the back wall [TS]

01:04:35   and that's the moment where she kind of [TS]

01:04:36   puts it together and he's just I i like [TS]

01:04:39   how his dialogue in there is also really [TS]

01:04:41   subtle he's like you know i'm not i'm [TS]

01:04:43   not the kind of person who you know who [TS]

01:04:45   would prefer that sort of thing but i [TS]

01:04:47   need to be seen having in women over to [TS]

01:04:49   my house and she's like oh and then she [TS]

01:04:50   then she put together it's just I don't [TS]

01:04:52   know he's not in the movie very long and [TS]

01:04:55   I I find a lot of sympathy for him in [TS]

01:04:58   that in that moment the way he plays and [TS]

01:05:00   I think a lot of that is this is stephen [TS]

01:05:02   fry me the script is good for him but [TS]

01:05:04   even a lot of that is just that I think [TS]

01:05:06   the likability and kind of melancholy of [TS]

01:05:08   stephen fry you know ya solid movie you [TS]

01:05:11   know Mississippi right leg goes out but [TS]

01:05:14   when this car was in 2005 profile [TS]

01:05:17   yeah so you know there are a lot of like [TS]

01:05:19   Mississippi is not a state that's [TS]

01:05:21   awesome to gay people right so I saw [TS]

01:05:24   this movie in Oxford Mississippi and [TS]

01:05:26   there are a lot of your closeted gay [TS]

01:05:29   older people in that town so you know [TS]

01:05:33   when he's having that monologue about [TS]

01:05:35   how you eventually the mask you wear [TS]

01:05:38   becomes the person that you are like I [TS]

01:05:40   knew people in Oxford Mississippi that [TS]

01:05:44   like grew up and had a family and had [TS]

01:05:47   children and were absolutely gay and [TS]

01:05:50   just like completely hid it so I I don't [TS]

01:05:53   know I thought that whole thing was one [TS]

01:05:55   more powerful part in a movie to me yeah [TS]

01:05:58   and it's the one part it's the one part [TS]

01:06:00   of the movie that has no analog in the [TS]

01:06:03   original this is complete is completely [TS]

01:06:05   original from the Wachowskis the Gordon [TS]

01:06:09   Gordon Dietrich stuff the the hidden [TS]

01:06:11   Korean all this of you guess the closest [TS]

01:06:15   to it is that EV hooks up with a with [TS]

01:06:19   with with a sort of a gangster type in [TS]

01:06:21   the book [TS]

01:06:22   this is this is completely different [TS]

01:06:25   this is completely new uh and and it's [TS]

01:06:29   one of my favorite parts in the movie I [TS]

01:06:30   I like the use of fri here a lot if if [TS]

01:06:34   that if the use of John Hurt is on the [TS]

01:06:37   screen is a 1984 reference [TS]

01:06:40   I feel I got some fahrenheit 451 coming [TS]

01:06:43   from this is the trove of banned books [TS]

01:06:45   it's not just that he has both the [TS]

01:06:47   banned books and the art but that that I [TS]

01:06:51   I felt like that was you know sort of [TS]

01:06:53   what they were going for with that I [TS]

01:06:55   don't love the successive scene with [TS]

01:06:58   Stephen Fry where he puts on the comedy [TS]

01:07:00   sketch with John heard plant [TS]

01:07:02   impersonating himself only because he [TS]

01:07:05   don't know it makes it makes Dietrich [TS]

01:07:07   seem a little bit dumb because he he [TS]

01:07:10   basically is he believes that they'll [TS]

01:07:14   just slap him on the wrist and he tells [TS]

01:07:15   that to his agent i kind of don't [TS]

01:07:17   believe me naive I I that he would have [TS]

01:07:19   gotten to the point in his career [TS]

01:07:21   I could see it as I'm gonna do this and [TS]

01:07:23   they can do what they want to me i'm [TS]

01:07:25   gonna make a stand but that's not how he [TS]

01:07:27   was portrayed he's portrayed as naive as [TS]

01:07:29   like oh come on the slap me on the wrist [TS]

01:07:31   of my ratings are too good and of course [TS]

01:07:33   then they dragged him away and I that [TS]

01:07:34   that I don't like as much I blamed v [TS]

01:07:37   directly to that because right before we [TS]

01:07:42   see the same when he gets dragged away [TS]

01:07:43   we are with pretty and those guys as [TS]

01:07:48   they get yelled at to take direct action [TS]

01:07:51   about citizens putting V and it's true [TS]

01:07:55   it's like it's right after that beat [TS]

01:07:58   this comes out and it's a stupid [TS]

01:08:02   reaction egg is he overplayed his hand [TS]

01:08:04   definitely in the old days could have [TS]

01:08:08   gotten away with it maybe but political [TS]

01:08:12   calculus has changed drag his doody is [TS]

01:08:15   on the scene that that was my read on it [TS]

01:08:17   instead like yeah he's naive because he [TS]

01:08:20   doesn't really understand the impacted [TS]

01:08:22   he has been having he brought the stakes [TS]

01:08:24   up to a level that no one was willing to [TS]

01:08:26   play you can't just play with the [TS]

01:08:29   establishment exactly they can't ignore [TS]

01:08:31   it anymore [TS]

01:08:32   I employee to just watch this movie with [TS]

01:08:35   an open mind and a good heart [TS]

01:08:37   yeah I am truly mystified why anyone [TS]

01:08:40   would not like this movie like I think [TS]

01:08:42   it's by far the strongest work the witch [TS]

01:08:44   house tues have ever done and I would [TS]

01:08:46   probably my third [TS]

01:08:48   fourth favorite film I am utterly [TS]

01:08:50   mystified the only reason come up for [TS]

01:08:53   that is comic book great comic book guy [TS]

01:08:55   rage about it or maybe some matrix [TS]

01:08:57   matrix let down or something I don't [TS]

01:08:59   worry you know how do you remember I [TS]

01:09:01   never win it netflix dvds that was a [TS]

01:09:04   long time ago now but when definitely [TS]

01:09:05   that did the dvds and one of the things [TS]

01:09:07   you would do is you would rate the [TS]

01:09:08   movies as you watch them because that [TS]

01:09:10   would recommend new dvds to get you [TS]

01:09:12   netflix i remember this when I was [TS]

01:09:14   watching at this time netflix the only [TS]

01:09:16   movie in my entire time on netflix that [TS]

01:09:19   I gave 5 stars2 was befriended up the [TS]

01:09:22   only 1i gave 5 stars2 of all the movies [TS]

01:09:26   i watched in that whatever five-year [TS]

01:09:27   span it is i think it is a spectacularly [TS]

01:09:30   good movie and I do think I I think [TS]

01:09:32   maybe it's it's a comic book movie like [TS]

01:09:36   alan moore adaptation like it leave was [TS]

01:09:39   League of Extraordinary Gentlemen before [TS]

01:09:40   this Robin there's there's there's maybe [TS]

01:09:43   there's reasons there or maybe it's just [TS]

01:09:44   that after the matrix and the sequel's [TS]

01:09:47   people were kinda down on the Wachowskis [TS]

01:09:50   I don't know but I I because i do think [TS]

01:09:52   it's brilliant [TS]

01:09:53   you know this movie has legs pics in [TS]

01:09:55   30-40 years from now guess what its [TS]

01:09:58   gonna be valid [TS]

01:09:59   yeah I've got my quibbles with the [TS]

01:10:01   politics i think that some of the [TS]

01:10:03   politics of the movie or simplified [TS]

01:10:05   compared to the comic book but the [TS]

01:10:06   character are we are stronger i'm [TS]

01:10:09   hard-pressed to safe which I like better [TS]

01:10:11   because the beach movie has different [TS]

01:10:13   flaws but the story and the concept of V [TS]

01:10:16   for Vendetta is powerful and i think i [TS]

01:10:20   think the world's better for having it [TS]

01:10:22   as part of the cannon [TS]

01:10:23   I'm looking across the room right now [TS]

01:10:24   I've got into poster up on the wall [TS]

01:10:26   this is the only witch house key [TS]

01:10:28   property i have any real affinity for I [TS]

01:10:30   like the matrix by was never a fan of [TS]

01:10:32   you know the entire series one thing i [TS]

01:10:35   want to say no [TS]

01:10:37   there you go I one thing I do want to [TS]

01:10:39   say I appreciate the fact that they [TS]

01:10:40   invented bullet time in the matrix and [TS]

01:10:43   now they've got a nice time at the end [TS]

01:10:44   of it [TS]

01:10:46   man I thought that was cool but know [TS]

01:10:50   this movie I wrote it off because I saw [TS]

01:10:53   it for the first time you over 10 years [TS]

01:10:54   ago when it first came out and in the [TS]

01:10:56   intervening time I kind of wrote it off [TS]

01:10:58   as like a movie i like to know as a kid [TS]

01:11:00   especially because again the v mask has [TS]

01:11:02   been co-opted has something else and I [TS]

01:11:04   had a hard time separating that meaning [TS]

01:11:06   from the movie and rewatching again [TS]

01:11:08   tonight I'd don't know how I could have [TS]

01:11:10   felt that I really really did enjoy [TS]

01:11:11   especially now not to get political yeah [TS]

01:11:13   this if you really love this movie [TS]

01:11:16   the audiobook i got five dollars [TS]

01:11:18   inaudible and listen to it like 20 times [TS]

01:11:20   it's it's it's a real expansion of this [TS]

01:11:23   entire movie so if you like that gonna [TS]

01:11:26   go and if you're coming for comic reader [TS]

01:11:29   and you haven't bagged it is not the it [TS]

01:11:31   is super dense i mean we've talked about [TS]

01:11:32   a lot of alan moore on this podcast over [TS]

01:11:34   the years and the fact is he is a [TS]

01:11:37   challenging writer and he is there's a [TS]

01:11:39   lot of reward to be gotten out of it and [TS]

01:11:41   I think although it is politically very [TS]

01:11:43   different and I mean yeah I i would say [TS]

01:11:45   the movie is a is simplified but it's [TS]

01:11:48   also very different kind of political [TS]

01:11:49   stance but I think it's worth reading I [TS]

01:11:51   was glad i read it is not the first alan [TS]

01:11:55   moore i would point somebody to but as a [TS]

01:11:57   kind of bracketing watchman I think it's [TS]

01:12:00   really interesting and and if you've [TS]

01:12:02   seen the movie i think it's actually [TS]

01:12:04   fascinating to go back and see what the [TS]

01:12:06   adaptation choices were because it is a [TS]

01:12:08   very different working a lot of ways and [TS]

01:12:10   yet some of the scenes are perfectly [TS]

01:12:14   faithfully rendered it's a fascinating [TS]

01:12:16   combination of being faithful two parts [TS]

01:12:19   but making a different hole so I you [TS]

01:12:23   know I definitely recommend going back [TS]

01:12:25   to to the book if you are so inclined as [TS]

01:12:28   concrete it's certainly an easier alan [TS]

01:12:30   moore book to read then say Prometheus [TS]

01:12:33   yeah I knew you were gonna say that [TS]

01:12:34   alright let's wrap it up thank you to [TS]

01:12:36   everybody for being here this was [TS]

01:12:39   awesome i'm so glad I had this on my [TS]

01:12:40   list for a few years as a favorite movie [TS]

01:12:42   and I thought this might be a good time [TS]

01:12:44   no no no reason to talk about a brown [TS]

01:12:47   blue thank you so much for being on [TS]

01:12:48   tonight yeah if you like the things [TS]

01:12:50   we're talking about here look at my race [TS]

01:12:52   for Congress maybe consider donating all [TS]

01:12:54   right look look at that everybody wins [TS]

01:12:57   here yeah chips under thank you [TS]

01:12:58   I see no reason [TS]

01:12:59   that v for vendetta should ever be [TS]

01:13:01   forgot brian hamilton where do i donate [TS]

01:13:04   to your campaign [TS]

01:13:05   I don't have one but i do have to say [TS]

01:13:07   our powers of observation have served as [TS]

01:13:09   well almost like most thank you so much [TS]

01:13:11   for being here [TS]

01:13:12   smash the state and God and guy English [TS]

01:13:18   here's your PhD in theology I remember [TS]

01:13:21   how the meaning of words began to change [TS]

01:13:24   another value equal alright well gonna [TS]

01:13:26   skip the whole movie [TS]

01:13:27   listen to every word that Valerie says [TS]

01:13:28   you get you got it and thanks everybody [TS]

01:13:32   out there for listening to this edition [TS]

01:13:33   of the couple we will see you next time [TS]

01:13:36   [Music] [TS]

01:13:50   [Music] [TS]