The Talk Show

183: ‘A Very Masculine Bark’, With Special Guest Serenity Caldwell


00:00:00   did you watch the Oscars I watched the [TS]

00:00:02   end of the Oscars so I caught right at [TS]

00:00:05   the end so you were watching live you [TS]

00:00:07   were watching live when it happened yeah [TS]

00:00:09   we were not I've kind of given up on [TS]

00:00:12   award shows i find it took just two too [TS]

00:00:13   damn tedious and so but i got a news [TS]

00:00:16   alert from the new york times and so we [TS]

00:00:18   immediately switched over and quick [TS]

00:00:20   rewound watch it but it's so totally [TS]

00:00:22   different knowing you know like the news [TS]

00:00:24   alert was like holy hell they announce [TS]

00:00:26   the wrong winner of the best picture go [TS]

00:00:29   watch this fiasco live you know whereas [TS]

00:00:31   if you're watching live it's got to be [TS]

00:00:33   more of what the hell is going on yeah [TS]

00:00:35   it was very unscripted so the funny [TS]

00:00:37   thing is of course I was driving home [TS]

00:00:39   from Canada so when I say watching live [TS]

00:00:41   what I really mean was I had my iPhone [TS]

00:00:44   open and i was listening to it um so i [TS]

00:00:49   didn't see the facial expressions that [TS]

00:00:51   everybody was talking abou i just heard [TS]

00:00:53   this long really awkward pause and I'm [TS]

00:00:56   like well that's like it and some [TS]

00:00:59   shuffling in the microphone and I'm like [TS]

00:01:00   that doesn't that's not usually how you [TS]

00:01:03   build suspense it's not like you know [TS]

00:01:06   shuffle shuffle shuffle everything's you [TS]

00:01:08   know everything's fine here we're all [TS]

00:01:10   fine how are you uh yeah it was just it [TS]

00:01:13   was odd and then the resulting commotion [TS]

00:01:17   I I almost like I didn't pull over the [TS]

00:01:20   car but I almost wanted to pull over the [TS]

00:01:22   car and be like I actually want to watch [TS]

00:01:24   this because this seems kind of [TS]

00:01:26   ridiculous so I didn't actually get to [TS]

00:01:28   watch the video of it until I got home [TS]

00:01:31   um in front of you know and probably i [TS]

00:01:34   don't think the net until the next day [TS]

00:01:36   sitting down in front of my computer [TS]

00:01:38   being like okay what actually happened [TS]

00:01:40   during this nonsense um and then [TS]

00:01:43   watching like Warren Beatty just look [TS]

00:01:46   completely confounded and and feel like [TS]

00:01:50   ah let's uh let's maybe not announce [TS]

00:01:55   this and then Eifert ol alright don't [TS]

00:01:59   know presenter fade runway there we go [TS]

00:02:01   for somewhere her name wasn't coming to [TS]

00:02:04   me but yeah Faye Dunaway just being like [TS]

00:02:06   all right it's lala land and everybody [TS]

00:02:08   you could just see like his face [TS]

00:02:10   crystallizing oh my god we [TS]

00:02:13   made a huge risk right I don't know that [TS]

00:02:15   we should have done that right yeah [TS]

00:02:17   exactly even though it's live TV but the [TS]

00:02:19   show must go on right and which I mean [TS]

00:02:21   it it's funny too because it to my [TS]

00:02:23   memory and I guess I don't really watch [TS]

00:02:25   award shows anymore but it seems to me [TS]

00:02:27   that in my mind that the Oscars is the [TS]

00:02:29   one that's only that that's most bragged [TS]

00:02:32   over the years about the the fidelity of [TS]

00:02:34   the vote counting process and the [TS]

00:02:36   secrecy and and you know the very [TS]

00:02:40   ostentatious mentions of their [TS]

00:02:42   partnership with Price Waterhouse or now [TS]

00:02:44   it's PricewaterhouseCoopers you know and [TS]

00:02:46   give a special briefcase right and that [TS]

00:02:50   the two briefcase carriers have become [TS]

00:02:52   became even before wait before there's [TS]

00:02:54   now they're much better known but they [TS]

00:02:56   were part of the red carpet ceremony you [TS]

00:03:00   know where they're dressed up and [TS]

00:03:01   they're there they're ostentatiously [TS]

00:03:03   bringing you know they're carrying these [TS]

00:03:05   briefcases full of the the winning [TS]

00:03:07   envelopes that they're the what the show [TS]

00:03:10   that you know like other World War chose [TS]

00:03:12   I don't remember that you know any any [TS]

00:03:14   kind of exposure to the integrity of the [TS]

00:03:19   process know exactly i mean the golden [TS]

00:03:22   it's also the history of the awards show [TS]

00:03:25   right where you look at the Golden [TS]

00:03:26   Globes and you look at the Emmys and to [TS]

00:03:29   a much lesser extent the tonys the tonys [TS]

00:03:31   are more on the Oscar levels but [TS]

00:03:33   especially if you look at the Golden [TS]

00:03:35   Globes in the Emmys they're very much [TS]

00:03:37   more of a like let's sit down and have a [TS]

00:03:39   boozy lunch and acknowledge that these [TS]

00:03:42   are probably you know probably uh win [TS]

00:03:45   awards that are won by massive marketing [TS]

00:03:48   campaigns but also let's feel good about [TS]

00:03:50   ourselves whereas the Oscars for as long [TS]

00:03:53   as I've been alive and much more than [TS]

00:03:55   that was raised as the like this is the [TS]

00:03:58   pinnacle of you know achievement as an [TS]

00:04:00   actor or an actress or a director and [TS]

00:04:03   you know once you're recognized at the [TS]

00:04:05   Oscars then you have become a legitimate [TS]

00:04:07   star and that was the thing it's like if [TS]

00:04:11   you want it you want to become big you [TS]

00:04:12   have to get an Academy Award nomination [TS]

00:04:14   forget the Golden Globes or the Emmys or [TS]

00:04:16   anything you know along those lines [TS]

00:04:18   those don't matter as much as the as the [TS]

00:04:20   Oscars because the Oscars are voted on [TS]

00:04:23   by us and we you know we have this proud [TS]

00:04:26   tradition [TS]

00:04:27   like you said pricewaterhousecoopers I'm [TS]

00:04:29   pretty sure that's the only like [TS]

00:04:31   accounting firm I knew by name growing [TS]

00:04:34   up you know you don't you when you asked [TS]

00:04:37   little kids like seven year olds like [TS]

00:04:39   how many accounting firms can you name [TS]

00:04:41   and i'm pretty sure that at least [TS]

00:04:43   growing up in LA the only thing people [TS]

00:04:46   would have been able to like oh yeah [TS]

00:04:47   PricewaterhouseCoopers they do the [TS]

00:04:49   Oscars like they're the people who look [TS]

00:04:52   a little bit nerdy in really fancy suits [TS]

00:04:54   and dresses holding giant on for giant [TS]

00:04:57   briefcases that remind you of nuclear [TS]

00:04:59   football they take care of us they make [TS]

00:05:02   sure that the integrity of the Oscar [TS]

00:05:03   stays intact dammit hey guys remember [TS]

00:05:06   let me let me take a moment here and do [TS]

00:05:08   my own warren beatty just let me [TS]

00:05:09   double-check that we're okay here can [TS]

00:05:11   you can you double check that you're [TS]

00:05:12   using the right Mike in Scott yeah I [TS]

00:05:14   absolutely can because like you sound [TS]

00:05:18   pretty good but you sound ever so [TS]

00:05:19   slightly tinny is that good can you hear [TS]

00:05:23   me tapping on that yeah yes yeah are you [TS]

00:05:25   sorry I'm using the right microphone are [TS]

00:05:27   you good alright i just want okay but i [TS]

00:05:30   figured out why hold on i'm using the [TS]

00:05:33   right microphone but the wrong side of [TS]

00:05:35   it oh now you sound much better yeah [TS]

00:05:37   okay well now now we've proven that a [TS]

00:05:41   podcasting onna this afternoon yeah [TS]

00:05:45   we're done shows done show's over [TS]

00:05:48   everybody it's not all island shows that [TS]

00:05:51   that's good i'm glad i definitely don't [TS]

00:05:55   want to sound tinny on the talk show uh [TS]

00:05:57   that's so funny i'm so glad I said [TS]

00:06:01   something now rather than two hours from [TS]

00:06:03   now um me too so I found this so [TS]

00:06:07   interesting because it really was the [TS]

00:06:09   worst possible it was biggest award what [TS]

00:06:12   side of the night and it couldn't cut to [TS]

00:06:13   commercial and it's like no offense no [TS]

00:06:16   offense at all to the nominees for best [TS]

00:06:18   sound editing because it is that it's [TS]

00:06:20   the biggest award that they can win and [TS]

00:06:22   I understand that these are professional [TS]

00:06:24   like in a way that like you and I work [TS]

00:06:28   in a niche area of journalism right like [TS]

00:06:31   I understand what that's like a net [TS]

00:06:33   Europe they're obsessed with sound that [TS]

00:06:35   I'm not trying to diminish [TS]

00:06:37   embarrassment that it would have caused [TS]

00:06:39   if the same mistake it happened two [TS]

00:06:41   hours earlier when the best sound [TS]

00:06:42   editing award was given out but it would [TS]

00:06:44   have been so much less publicity the [TS]

00:06:46   next day right yeah you wouldn't and [TS]

00:06:50   also honestly the best the winner of [TS]

00:06:52   best sound editing chances are they [TS]

00:06:54   would have gotten up and then before [TS]

00:06:55   reading their speech they probably would [TS]

00:06:58   have looked down at the card and been [TS]

00:06:59   like hmm this has nothing to do with [TS]

00:07:02   sound editing right although maybe they [TS]

00:07:04   wouldn't because as right the the [TS]

00:07:07   article you were sharing with me earlier [TS]

00:07:09   about typography once I got a chance to [TS]

00:07:12   look at the the winner cards that they [TS]

00:07:15   were distributing who puts the name of [TS]

00:07:18   the category in 10 point font at the [TS]

00:07:21   bottom of a card like that yeah that [TS]

00:07:24   would have been the other thing if the [TS]

00:07:25   same mistake had been made with an [TS]

00:07:27   earlier award it's also possible that [TS]

00:07:29   the the person reading it wouldn't have [TS]

00:07:31   made the mistake of reading it because [TS]

00:07:33   part of what made the the series of [TS]

00:07:36   unfortunate events that made this [TS]

00:07:37   possible is that the name of the movie [TS]

00:07:41   of the previous winner what happened is [TS]

00:07:46   it for anybody who isn't sure of the [TS]

00:07:47   details of this the second to last award [TS]

00:07:49   was given for Best Actress and it was [TS]

00:07:50   Emma Stone in the movie lalaland and it [TS]

00:07:53   they keep two copies of these cards on [TS]

00:07:55   both sides of the stage and when they [TS]

00:07:56   came out when he was supposed to give [TS]

00:07:58   him the last card of the night he gave [TS]

00:08:00   Warren Beatty the second-to-last which [TS]

00:08:02   was the one that was just announced so [TS]

00:08:04   the second-to-last award was for Emma [TS]

00:08:06   Stone lala land and he gave Warren [TS]

00:08:07   Beatty a card that said the exact same [TS]

00:08:09   thing but it just so happened that lala [TS]

00:08:11   land was one of the nominees for Best [TS]

00:08:13   Picture and was highly favored to win it [TS]

00:08:15   so it was no surprise and so when Faye [TS]

00:08:18   Dunaway looked at the card it said Emma [TS]

00:08:19   Stone lala land and she just sort of [TS]

00:08:21   like well what I don't know why they put [TS]

00:08:23   him a stone there but I see lala land so [TS]

00:08:25   i'll say lala land which was hmm in [TS]

00:08:28   hindsight a mistake but it's kind of [TS]

00:08:31   reasonable you know yeah it's not like [TS]

00:08:34   you know the card said I don't know I [TS]

00:08:36   Zootopia and you're like yeah that makes [TS]

00:08:40   sense if the same i gave the guy the guy [TS]

00:08:43   got the wrong card from the previous [TS]

00:08:45   award was halfway through the show [TS]

00:08:47   there's a good chance that none of the [TS]

00:08:49   movies that are up for [TS]

00:08:50   current one were in the one that was [TS]

00:08:53   previously announced and then they'd be [TS]

00:08:56   like I don't you know they'd have to say [TS]

00:08:58   like they maybe that would dawn on them [TS]

00:08:59   like holy holy heck they gave me the [TS]

00:09:02   wrong card yeah yeah um so that a the [TS]

00:09:08   whole procedure this whole procedure of [TS]

00:09:09   having two sets of cards seems like a [TS]

00:09:11   massive mistake to me oh my gosh so the [TS]

00:09:15   way I understand it and I may be totally [TS]

00:09:18   wrong and things have changed since then [TS]

00:09:20   so if there's a listener out there who [TS]

00:09:22   has inside info on the Academy Awards [TS]

00:09:23   and wants to correct me if I'm wrong go [TS]

00:09:25   for it but the way I understand it is [TS]

00:09:27   this is left over from an older [TS]

00:09:29   tradition pre you know well I don't even [TS]

00:09:33   know maybe even pre like backstage [TS]

00:09:37   handlers with the idea being that in [TS]

00:09:40   order to make the show run smoothly and [TS]

00:09:42   to make things interesting because it is [TS]

00:09:45   after all a stage show and a show that [TS]

00:09:47   is being produced for television people [TS]

00:09:49   are going to come in from opposite sides [TS]

00:09:52   of the stage but because there are you [TS]

00:09:55   know as as time has gone on there like [TS]

00:09:57   big numbers and things have to change at [TS]

00:10:00   the last minute a presenter may have [TS]

00:10:02   been originally scheduled to come on [TS]

00:10:04   from stage left and then abruptly needs [TS]

00:10:06   to come on from stage right and rather [TS]

00:10:09   than having to you know send a runner in [TS]

00:10:12   black like zipping around the back of [TS]

00:10:15   the stage and maybe running into you [TS]

00:10:17   know the Best Actress nominee or [TS]

00:10:18   something well and also can also change [TS]

00:10:20   that would violate the idea the rule [TS]

00:10:22   that the only two people who have these [TS]

00:10:24   envelopes before they're announced are [TS]

00:10:26   the two representatives of Price [TS]

00:10:28   Waterhouse exactly and that also takes [TS]

00:10:30   away the secrecy so the thought is well [TS]

00:10:33   we'll just put one briefcase carrier [TS]

00:10:35   stage left and one briefcase carrier [TS]

00:10:37   stage right they each have a copy of all [TS]

00:10:40   of the awards so no matter what happens [TS]

00:10:42   the presenter no matter where they end [TS]

00:10:44   up having to enter from they will always [TS]

00:10:46   be right next to the envelope necessary [TS]

00:10:50   for their entrance which is a lovely [TS]

00:10:52   idea in theory and you know 80 some odd [TS]

00:10:57   years until now worked okay yeah I it [TS]

00:11:01   and even if we want to stick with it [TS]

00:11:03   it's clear that the procedure should [TS]

00:11:05   have been that it should have been with [TS]

00:11:06   a very strict you know like you double [TS]

00:11:10   checking if you're offstage on the other [TS]

00:11:14   side and so in other words your [TS]

00:11:15   colleague like let's say you and I are [TS]

00:11:17   the two people giving out these awards [TS]

00:11:18   if it's your turn to give out best [TS]

00:11:20   actress in a leading role I'm going to [TS]

00:11:23   have my copy of that exact envelope in [TS]

00:11:25   my hand and then I'm going to watch the [TS]

00:11:28   presenters go out on stage or I guess [TS]

00:11:31   who was it was Leo DiCaprio comes out on [TS]

00:11:33   stage reads it and hands Emma Stone the [TS]

00:11:37   Oscar and then at that point I'm gonna [TS]

00:11:39   take my copy of that card and put it in [TS]

00:11:42   a different pocket you know right like [TS]

00:11:45   okay not in not in the hand and then I'm [TS]

00:11:48   about to you know give next presenter [TS]

00:11:50   I'm going to systematically do that at [TS]

00:11:54   each you know for each of the awards to [TS]

00:11:57   at least it doesn't quite make it [TS]

00:11:59   impossible that I could do it because I [TS]

00:12:01   you know you'd have to like destroy it [TS]

00:12:02   or something yeah and people want it for [TS]

00:12:05   memorabilia and the like but I del they [TS]

00:12:08   had photos of the guy backstage you know [TS]

00:12:10   this poor fellow who is responsible for [TS]

00:12:13   me taking a photo of Emma Stone right [TS]

00:12:16   moments before he's goofing around on [TS]

00:12:19   Twitter with his iphone uh taking [TS]

00:12:21   pictures of emma stone and then there's [TS]

00:12:24   photos of him holding two envelopes like [TS]

00:12:27   he still got two envelopes in his hand [TS]

00:12:28   the best actress one that he should have [TS]

00:12:31   put into a different pile and presumably [TS]

00:12:34   the the best picture one that he needed [TS]

00:12:37   to give to Warren Beatty in a minute and [TS]

00:12:39   he just gave him the wrong one which is [TS]

00:12:41   insane but when you look at the [TS]

00:12:43   envelopes eye candy it's funny because [TS]

00:12:45   the the tweet that guy that got sent [TS]

00:12:47   around the world with the like the most [TS]

00:12:49   popular tweet showing how hard the [TS]

00:12:51   envelopes are to read was a freeze frame [TS]

00:12:55   of from his tivo that Andy a knocko [TS]

00:12:57   friend of the show Andy and not go post [TS]

00:12:59   it to Twitter and any yeah it's like a [TS]

00:13:02   deep red envelope with very smart and [TS]

00:13:05   beyond gold no gold on burgundy which i [TS]

00:13:08   think is worse it's oh that's right [TS]

00:13:10   that's right yeah right no it is much [TS]

00:13:12   worse [TS]

00:13:13   ya light text on dark paper in general [TS]

00:13:16   is a bad idea when you're trying to read [TS]

00:13:18   especially in bright lights on a stage [TS]

00:13:21   and there's tons of people we're [TS]

00:13:23   backstage backstage where ages were [TS]

00:13:26   stark and everybody involved is 50 or [TS]

00:13:30   older and so I can I can vouch as a 40 [TS]

00:13:34   almost 44 year old that yet reading in [TS]

00:13:37   the dark is a real problem after the age [TS]

00:13:40   of 40 and the like small type it just [TS]

00:13:45   it's just it incomprehensible that that [TS]

00:13:47   would be the design especially given the [TS]

00:13:49   system you know that that there are two [TS]

00:13:52   sets you would just think that designing [TS]

00:13:54   to make sure that we always give the [TS]

00:13:56   right envelope we'd be there maybe it's [TS]

00:13:59   a little bit clearer on what this [TS]

00:14:01   envelope is for and again I don't [TS]

00:14:03   understand that the need to write it in [TS]

00:14:05   such tiny text I mean if you look at [TS]

00:14:08   andys photo I it can't be bigger than 12 [TS]

00:14:11   or 14 point font no and that in Gold's [TS]

00:14:14   like what ha and I understand the [TS]

00:14:17   concept of oh well we want to write best [TS]

00:14:19   actress in a leading role versus best [TS]

00:14:22   actress in a supporting role but can't [TS]

00:14:23   you write best actress or best picture [TS]

00:14:27   in big honking like 36 point font maybe [TS]

00:14:32   you know in vegetable bonds that's crazy [TS]

00:14:36   you've got it you've got it I mean [TS]

00:14:38   there's just no excuse for not doing it [TS]

00:14:39   in dark text on a light background I [TS]

00:14:42   know it's frustrating um and it just [TS]

00:14:46   it's just so funny anyway I had a couple [TS]

00:14:49   of X this week to the critique of the [TS]

00:14:51   design and it's I think the other thing [TS]

00:14:55   the other the other angle is the [TS]

00:14:57   psychology of it which is that it [TS]

00:15:01   totally makes sense to me that it didn't [TS]

00:15:03   even occur to Warren Beatty or Faye [TS]

00:15:06   Dunaway that we might be given the wrong [TS]

00:15:08   all right no of course not the Oscars [TS]

00:15:11   are always right like I think that if [TS]

00:15:15   you're the guy from Price Waterhouse I [TS]

00:15:17   would be thing I really would even if [TS]

00:15:18   this was like my 20th year doing it and [TS]

00:15:20   it's feels familiar whatever i'm still [TS]

00:15:23   thinking oh my god i cannot screw this [TS]

00:15:25   up on every single envelope [TS]

00:15:27   mm-hmm this is the year this is the year [TS]

00:15:30   that terrible things will happen I mean [TS]

00:15:33   it's being somebody said that it is [TS]

00:15:35   literally it could not be there's never [TS]

00:15:37   been a better example of that phrase you [TS]

00:15:39   had one job hey yup oh gosh yeah I I do [TS]

00:15:47   feel kind of sorry for that for that [TS]

00:15:49   poor guy just you know just I I wouldn't [TS]

00:15:54   want to be the person to be like so what [TS]

00:15:56   did you do at your last job well I [TS]

00:15:57   inadvertently screwed up the Oscars okay [TS]

00:16:00   Best Picture yeah boy let me take a [TS]

00:16:07   break before we get into the nerdy stuff [TS]

00:16:09   and okay and thank our good friends at [TS]

00:16:12   Squarespace next time you make a big [TS]

00:16:15   move you need to do website make your [TS]

00:16:18   next move with squarespace you get a [TS]

00:16:21   beautiful website from Squarespace any [TS]

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00:16:27   day of templates for stores is it a blog [TS]

00:16:29   they have templates for blogs podcasts [TS]

00:16:31   you wanna make a podcast guess what [TS]

00:16:33   Squarespace can help you with that and [TS]

00:16:36   even if you've just got the idea you can [TS]

00:16:40   start by getting your own domain name [TS]

00:16:42   through Squarespace and get it held for [TS]

00:16:46   you while you work on the idea [TS]

00:16:47   everything you want to do with a website [TS]

00:16:50   from the domain name to the hosting to [TS]

00:16:53   the analytics and stats as the studios [TS]

00:16:56   you see what people are doing and what [TS]

00:16:58   they're doing at the website all of it [TS]

00:17:00   goes through squarespace com everything [TS]

00:17:02   you do is set up visually drag and drop [TS]

00:17:05   click and drag that sort of thing if you [TS]

00:17:08   want to if listeners of this show it's [TS]

00:17:10   very likely if you have the capability [TS]

00:17:12   if you know what you're doing if you've [TS]

00:17:13   got a bit of a web development nerd [TS]

00:17:15   angled to your abilities you could drop [TS]

00:17:18   in and put custom JavaScript in you can [TS]

00:17:20   modify the CSS if you want to stuff like [TS]

00:17:22   that so if you want to get nerdy and [TS]

00:17:24   look at the code you can do it but if [TS]

00:17:25   you don't you don't have to and its [TS]

00:17:27   really a very app like experience of the [TS]

00:17:30   way that you can just drag stuff around [TS]

00:17:32   and have a professionally designed [TS]

00:17:33   website no matter what your skill level [TS]

00:17:36   is technically I where do you go to get [TS]

00:17:39   a free trial that [TS]

00:17:40   squarespace.com just go that you get a [TS]

00:17:43   free trial don't even need a code or [TS]

00:17:44   anything like that the thing you want to [TS]

00:17:45   remember is when you do sign up remember [TS]

00:17:50   this code Gruber my last name GRU be PR [TS]

00:17:53   and you'll save ten percent off your [TS]

00:17:55   first purchase Squarespace make your [TS]

00:17:58   next move with squarespace ah I thought [TS]

00:18:04   we'd start did you see this thing where [TS]

00:18:06   the apple shareholder meeting was [TS]

00:18:08   earlier this week yes good ol apple [TS]

00:18:11   shareholder meeting I we used to when i [TS]

00:18:14   worked at macworld we used to send [TS]

00:18:15   somebody down there to just take notes [TS]

00:18:18   it was usually very boring and there was [TS]

00:18:19   always one person who's like let's [TS]

00:18:22   divest all the company of all of the x [TS]

00:18:25   and y um but this this year it was a [TS]

00:18:28   little bit different this year's a [TS]

00:18:30   little bit interesting it's like the [TS]

00:18:31   bylaws of a public corporation are such [TS]

00:18:33   that a crackpot with a ship with one [TS]

00:18:35   share of apple stock and like get the [TS]

00:18:37   microphone if ya if they so choose I had [TS]

00:18:40   no idea until this year I've never been [TS]

00:18:43   to it it's never been something that [TS]

00:18:44   I've thought that saw the need to cover [TS]

00:18:48   you know first hand um I had no idea [TS]

00:18:52   that they held him at Town Hall I [TS]

00:18:53   thought I thought it was like some big [TS]

00:18:56   thing where like like a thousand you [TS]

00:19:01   know Apple diehards love to go you know [TS]

00:19:04   like they buy a share and hold on to it [TS]

00:19:06   forever just so that they can go you [TS]

00:19:08   know like like a like a like a Mac world [TS]

00:19:11   keynote or something yeah oh we can go [TS]

00:19:13   and see that yeah I just don't think [TS]

00:19:15   that that many people either realize [TS]

00:19:18   what the annual shareholder meeting is [TS]

00:19:21   or they don't really think that oh yeah [TS]

00:19:25   this is my this is my chance to be [TS]

00:19:27   within 10 feet of Tim Cook so it's gonna [TS]

00:19:29   be great it's really just like a hundred [TS]

00:19:31   people who show up yeah it's cuz town is [TS]

00:19:34   tiny yeah there's no there's really not [TS]

00:19:36   a lot of space and I do think I can't [TS]

00:19:39   remember how it goes but I feel like [TS]

00:19:41   there's some kind of priority system but [TS]

00:19:45   I may be wrong on that we have to like [TS]

00:19:48   RSVP or something like that and so yeah [TS]

00:19:50   yeah so they actually have enough space [TS]

00:19:54   so the news that came out of it was [TS]

00:19:55   somebody asked a question this is from a [TS]

00:19:57   report at nine to five Mac it's not on [TS]

00:20:01   video or anything like that so who knows [TS]

00:20:02   what the greater context is but the news [TS]

00:20:04   that came out was that Tim Cook said [TS]

00:20:06   something about the pro area again and [TS]

00:20:09   here I'll just read from nine to five [TS]

00:20:11   max story and I will put it in the show [TS]

00:20:12   no type ramas cook also hinted at [TS]

00:20:14   Apple's product pipeline by promising [TS]

00:20:16   Apple will quote do more in the Pro area [TS]

00:20:19   end quote cook called out the creative [TS]

00:20:23   field is especially important to Apple [TS]

00:20:24   while pushing back against the notion [TS]

00:20:26   that Apple is to consumer focused now [TS]

00:20:27   quote don't think that something we've [TS]

00:20:32   done or something or doing that isn't [TS]

00:20:35   visible yet is a signal that our [TS]

00:20:37   priorities are elsewhere and quote [TS]

00:20:39   that's about as little as you can [TS]

00:20:44   actually say specifically like I don't [TS]

00:20:47   expect him to reveal anything specific [TS]

00:20:49   in it responds to a shareholder a [TS]

00:20:52   question but he literally didn't even [TS]

00:20:55   mention whether the at least in the [TS]

00:20:57   quote I don't know you know again it's [TS]

00:20:59   the Selective quotes from see who wrote [TS]

00:21:02   this a 9to5 mac Zack hall 9to5 mac but [TS]

00:21:06   but at least from what he quoted it [TS]

00:21:07   doesn't even mention whether as in to do [TS]

00:21:09   with the mac or not like yeah because [TS]

00:21:11   they have the ipad pro which is off you [TS]

00:21:14   know i don't know if you could tell but [TS]

00:21:15   given the name they consider a device [TS]

00:21:17   problems for professionals yeah uh well [TS]

00:21:22   i do think though i do think that in [TS]

00:21:25   apple marketing speak pro doesn't [TS]

00:21:27   necessarily mean professional user it [TS]

00:21:30   means something a little more nebulous [TS]

00:21:32   it's sort of more like like what in [TS]

00:21:36   other contexts would be like deluxe or [TS]

00:21:40   premium just nicer and more expensive is [TS]

00:21:45   sort of what they mean by pro and the [TS]

00:21:50   ipad pro in particular it exemplifies [TS]

00:21:53   that in my opinion because for example [TS]

00:21:54   the macbook pros definitely look [TS]

00:21:56   different than the regular macbooks [TS]

00:21:58   they're thicker mm-hmm and heavier and [TS]

00:22:00   in a way that's not as nice right like [TS]

00:22:02   if you just in terms of light which [TS]

00:22:04   one's nicer to carry around all day a [TS]

00:22:05   macbook is better than a macbook pro [TS]

00:22:07   because it's thinner [TS]

00:22:08   writer for sure it's that trade-off [TS]

00:22:10   we'll make it thicker so we can put a [TS]

00:22:12   you know more faster faster but heavier [TS]

00:22:15   components in there and a bigger battery [TS]

00:22:17   and stuff is in a lot of ways leads [TS]

00:22:21   towards literally professional use cases [TS]

00:22:24   where is the ipad pro vs the ipad air [TS]

00:22:27   it's really just a nicer ipad yeah well [TS]

00:22:31   but you could also argue the same the [TS]

00:22:33   same concept right where you have the [TS]

00:22:35   12.9 and the 9.7 inch ipad pro they're [TS]

00:22:38   the only ipads that can use Apple pencil [TS]

00:22:40   so that basically limits like creative [TS]

00:22:43   professionals if you want to use an iPad [TS]

00:22:46   as a proper sketching tool you know the [TS]

00:22:49   only thing to get is an apple pencil and [TS]

00:22:51   an ipad pro like there's no there's not [TS]

00:22:53   even any point using a third-party [TS]

00:22:54   stylist anymore because it's just so [TS]

00:22:56   much of a better experience on that and [TS]

00:22:58   the you could argue that again the [TS]

00:23:00   processing power on the twelve point [TS]

00:23:02   nine inch iPad pro the true tone screen [TS]

00:23:05   on the 97 like they are nicer features [TS]

00:23:07   but specifically for people who spend a [TS]

00:23:10   lot of time staring at a tablet screen a [TS]

00:23:13   true tone screen is going to be nicer [TS]

00:23:15   for them especially doing proofreading [TS]

00:23:16   or typography correction or any of the [TS]

00:23:19   above it's going to be it's going to be [TS]

00:23:21   a better workspace yeah there's overlap [TS]

00:23:23   there's clearly overlaps between apples [TS]

00:23:25   definition of pro and actual lower case [TS]

00:23:28   P professional use cases there's a lot [TS]

00:23:30   of overlap in some cases but it does it [TS]

00:23:32   it's not like a one-to-one mapping no [TS]

00:23:34   it's not the way that it used to be [TS]

00:23:35   right where when when Apple said this is [TS]

00:23:37   our pro computer what they really meant [TS]

00:23:39   is this is the computer that the top you [TS]

00:23:42   know two percent of the market is going [TS]

00:23:44   to buy for professional use cases so who [TS]

00:23:48   knows what he means we're gonna do more [TS]

00:23:49   in a pro area I mean it's I'm not saying [TS]

00:23:53   it's bad I think it's better that he [TS]

00:23:54   said something then that he said nothing [TS]

00:23:56   in terms of let's just say the broader [TS]

00:23:59   context of the concern that Apple is [TS]

00:24:01   losing interest in high performance [TS]

00:24:05   computing professional Mac uses you know [TS]

00:24:09   yeah which is a funny broad area but I'm [TS]

00:24:13   talking you know the areas i'm thinking [TS]

00:24:15   about developers who have code that [TS]

00:24:18   takes a long time to compile [TS]

00:24:20   video editors seed you know graphics for [TS]

00:24:23   you know people who do computer graphics [TS]

00:24:25   and areas like that like researchers [TS]

00:24:30   like people who do like AI research and [TS]

00:24:32   have these huge data sets of you know [TS]

00:24:36   obviously artificial intelligences you [TS]

00:24:38   know it's never not been an interest but [TS]

00:24:40   it's exploding in practical uses where [TS]

00:24:42   it's really starting to become a [TS]

00:24:44   consumer thing there's all sorts of [TS]

00:24:46   super high-performance computing that [TS]

00:24:50   people who are working on that need to [TS]

00:24:52   do and you know there's this it you know [TS]

00:24:56   the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in [TS]

00:24:59   eleven hundred days so oh it's yeah it [TS]

00:25:03   is overdue but just just a few years [TS]

00:25:07   just to you know just a while I don't [TS]

00:25:10   know it's funny to me having transcribed [TS]

00:25:13   many many things that Tim Cook has said [TS]

00:25:15   over the years usually at financial [TS]

00:25:18   calls when he's again speaking off the [TS]

00:25:20   cuff and the sentence phrasing it may [TS]

00:25:23   not just it made not be an you know an [TS]

00:25:24   exact transcription but the don't think [TS]

00:25:27   that something we've done or something [TS]

00:25:29   that we're doing is invisible yet is a [TS]

00:25:30   signal that our priorities are elsewhere [TS]

00:25:31   that that is very classic Tim Cook being [TS]

00:25:35   like what do you mean we're not doing [TS]

00:25:37   things for pros right we you know it's [TS]

00:25:40   it's him being at least from again my [TS]

00:25:43   reading it's him being slightly [TS]

00:25:44   defensive and slightly confused as the [TS]

00:25:46   you know why aren't you guys patient and [TS]

00:25:49   just trust that we know what we're doing [TS]

00:25:51   which you know you can be that way is [TS]

00:25:54   the CEO of a major company but like you [TS]

00:25:57   say John the Mac Pro hasn't been updated [TS]

00:25:59   in eleven hundred days like there it's [TS]

00:26:02   not like people are throwing their hands [TS]

00:26:04   up the air and saying oh Pro users you [TS]

00:26:06   know you guys were just catered to six [TS]

00:26:09   months ago you never you know don't [TS]

00:26:11   worry about it like there are some valid [TS]

00:26:13   concerns in this space yeah it's sort of [TS]

00:26:16   like the the graph of how much anxiety [TS]

00:26:19   is it causes by as as the Mac Pro goes [TS]

00:26:24   I updated it it's I'm I can say it's [TS]

00:26:28   logarithmic but it increases over it's [TS]

00:26:30   not linear as time goes on it gets [TS]

00:26:34   scarier and scarier because it seems all [TS]

00:26:36   the more preposterous you know so a [TS]

00:26:38   couple of weeks ago sometime somewhat [TS]

00:26:41   recently I linked to I link to a story [TS]

00:26:46   about a guy works from a guy who works [TS]

00:26:50   in the professional video industry and [TS]

00:26:52   it was just talking about how he expects [TS]

00:26:54   he's going to have to switch from Mac [TS]

00:26:56   Pro's to Windows machines soon because [TS]

00:26:59   he's dependent on these cutting-edge the [TS]

00:27:04   work he's doing needs GPUs and these [TS]

00:27:08   nvidia boxes are coming out with all the [TS]

00:27:11   boxes yep parallel GPUs and it really is [TS]

00:27:16   so much of where Moore's law still [TS]

00:27:20   applies is in cheated you know you're [TS]

00:27:22   over year improvements to GPUs and a [TS]

00:27:24   parallel ISM and and you know it's just [TS]

00:27:27   where performance computing is going and [TS]

00:27:29   you know how about I don't know that [TS]

00:27:33   anybody was really thinking that the Mac [TS]

00:27:35   but even when the mac pro was brand-new [TS]

00:27:36   1100 days ago it wasn't like the world's [TS]

00:27:38   fastest GPU and no its you know and now [TS]

00:27:43   it's unchanged over 1100 days so I got [TS]

00:27:45   pushed some pushback on that from people [TS]

00:27:48   saying hey you know you just link to [TS]

00:27:49   this now but that was from a that was [TS]

00:27:51   like may 2016 it's old news and I [TS]

00:27:53   actually didn't notice that it was like [TS]

00:27:55   and I hate it's like one of the mistakes [TS]

00:27:58   I make I don't know a couple times a [TS]

00:28:00   year daring fireball is I'll link to [TS]

00:28:01   something thinking it's new and my [TS]

00:28:03   comment makes it seem as though it's new [TS]

00:28:05   and it's not it's you know I don't know [TS]

00:28:08   however many months or even a year out [TS]

00:28:10   of date and it's just it's somehow I [TS]

00:28:13   have a blind spot for double checking [TS]

00:28:14   the date on a post because sometimes [TS]

00:28:16   like what happens is I'll see somebody [TS]

00:28:17   link to it on twitter or something and [TS]

00:28:19   the link on twitter is under the guise [TS]

00:28:22   that it's new so i clicked and new yeah [TS]

00:28:24   and you know in some templates in on a [TS]

00:28:28   blog or something like that the date [TS]

00:28:29   might not be prominent it might be at [TS]

00:28:32   the bottom or something like that and i [TS]

00:28:34   don't i just hate when i make that [TS]

00:28:35   mistake but in this particular case i [TS]

00:28:37   actually [TS]

00:28:38   feel like the mistake it I should you [TS]

00:28:41   know I winds itself to your argument [TS]

00:28:42   right I updated the post then to say [TS]

00:28:44   that he wrote it in May of 2016 so that [TS]

00:28:46   everybody everybody who subsequently [TS]

00:28:48   read it would know it but the fact that [TS]

00:28:50   the Mac hasn't been update my pro as [TS]

00:28:51   n'ton updated since then just makes his [TS]

00:28:53   arguments all the more relevant [TS]

00:28:54   absolutely and you know he's not [TS]

00:28:57   shouting in a vacuum I have friends who [TS]

00:28:59   work at visual design agencies who [TS]

00:29:02   actually a close friend of mine was [TS]

00:29:04   really I sort of wrestling with herself [TS]

00:29:07   whether or not to get one of the new [TS]

00:29:09   macbook pros this year to replace [TS]

00:29:11   basically an aging I've 2009 era macbook [TS]

00:29:16   pro because she needs you know she needs [TS]

00:29:19   the power and she wants she wants an [TS]

00:29:21   updated portable workspace but the [TS]

00:29:24   macbook pro is essentially for her to [TS]

00:29:26   buy it she would be compromising on the [TS]

00:29:28   kind of things that she would need for [TS]

00:29:30   running cinema 4d and the like and it's [TS]

00:29:33   really like yes video editors and [TS]

00:29:36   graphics professionals are a niche [TS]

00:29:37   audience and certainly more niche for [TS]

00:29:40   Apple than they were a decade or even [TS]

00:29:42   two decades ago but they're still you [TS]

00:29:45   know that's that's still a segment that [TS]

00:29:47   can move some some product you know [TS]

00:29:50   video professionals don't usually [TS]

00:29:51   especially production houses you know [TS]

00:29:55   they're buying 20 30 40 computers for [TS]

00:29:58   their for their workforce and if those [TS]

00:30:01   computers are all tricked out Mac Pro's [TS]

00:30:03   so that they can process footage like [TS]

00:30:06   that's not a like yeah it's a drop in [TS]

00:30:08   the bucket compared to iphone sales but [TS]

00:30:10   it's still a pretty hefty chunk of of [TS]

00:30:13   mac sales and for them to just be like [TS]

00:30:16   yeah we're just gonna give up at hand [TS]

00:30:18   this to windows because we don't care [TS]

00:30:20   enough about that market anymore that [TS]

00:30:22   market isn't interesting enough to us [TS]

00:30:24   anymore and I part of me as a former [TS]

00:30:27   film person it really kind of is like a [TS]

00:30:30   stab in the gut because I don't you know [TS]

00:30:32   like so many of my film friends and [TS]

00:30:35   myself included like we don't enjoy [TS]

00:30:37   premiere we don't enjoy you know working [TS]

00:30:40   with cinema 4d or Adobe's products like [TS]

00:30:43   the whole one of the whole excitements [TS]

00:30:46   about getting into this industry was [TS]

00:30:47   working with tools like motion and final [TS]

00:30:49   cut and [TS]

00:30:50   and shake before it got discontinued and [TS]

00:30:52   for Apple to basically be like yeah this [TS]

00:30:55   is not an interest to us anymore Apple [TS]

00:30:57   can do this but they're essentially you [TS]

00:31:00   know they're essentially telling people [TS]

00:31:02   who've based their entire livelihoods on [TS]

00:31:05   working on a mac and building up a [TS]

00:31:07   software platform on the mac if sorry [TS]

00:31:10   you're going to have to go learn another [TS]

00:31:11   platform or go switch to another [TS]

00:31:13   operating system because you're you know [TS]

00:31:16   our bottom line it does no longer [TS]

00:31:18   includes this segment of the population [TS]

00:31:21   I it what it would occurred to me in [TS]

00:31:25   that wake of the cooks you know more or [TS]

00:31:30   less stay tuned again a response to this [TS]

00:31:33   question at the shareholders meeting is [TS]

00:31:35   that Apple's culture of secrecy about [TS]

00:31:38   products it works fine when the company [TS]

00:31:42   is functional there are trade-offs you [TS]

00:31:45   know like and you know people if this is [TS]

00:31:46   one of those ever lie evergreen topics [TS]

00:31:48   about Apple is what if they were more [TS]

00:31:50   open and you know in a ways that in the [TS]

00:31:52   Tim Cook error they are a little bit [TS]

00:31:55   more open in some areas there are [TS]

00:31:57   trade-offs between secrecy and openness [TS]

00:31:59   in terms of maintaining a surprise in [TS]

00:32:02   terms of not over-promising being able [TS]

00:32:07   to over promise and under promise and [TS]

00:32:09   over deliver as opposed to the other way [TS]

00:32:11   around for example one of the things you [TS]

00:32:13   know in a lot of companies adhere to is [TS]

00:32:16   not talking about release dates of [TS]

00:32:18   products because if you never talk about [TS]

00:32:19   the release date of a product it won't [TS]

00:32:21   be late whereas if you do and you're [TS]

00:32:23   late then you're late so the trade off [TS]

00:32:27   their culture of secrecy has trade-offs [TS]

00:32:30   when their product development is [TS]

00:32:32   functional and and those trade-offs I [TS]

00:32:34   think Apple has long believed work in [TS]

00:32:36   the company's favor but when they're not [TS]

00:32:40   functional it the culture of secrecy [TS]

00:32:42   just completely breaks down I mean and [TS]

00:32:45   clearly the Mac Pro has because a [TS]

00:32:47   dysfunctional product at this point [TS]

00:32:48   because they have it yeah you know like [TS]

00:32:50   if they had canceled it a year ago if [TS]

00:32:52   they had just said at WWDC that you know [TS]

00:32:54   you know the time for these micro is [TS]

00:32:57   done yeah and you know the imac is art [TS]

00:32:59   is our pro desktop [TS]

00:33:02   obviously it would not have gone over [TS]

00:33:05   well with a certain audience who you [TS]

00:33:08   know wants higher you know the highest [TS]

00:33:09   performance they can get but at least [TS]

00:33:11   you couldn't say that it's dysfunctional [TS]

00:33:13   I mean that's a rational decision and [TS]

00:33:15   then people can plan accordingly well in [TS]

00:33:18   one year later we wouldn't be talking [TS]

00:33:20   about it still it just would have [TS]

00:33:22   happened right I just feel for me the [TS]

00:33:26   last year like from WWDC through today [TS]

00:33:30   has is the period where for me at least [TS]

00:33:33   it's gone from the mac pro is over due [TS]

00:33:37   to the mac pro's ridiculous and the fact [TS]

00:33:39   that Apple isn't is still selling it [TS]

00:33:41   isn't saying anything is it I don't know [TS]

00:33:46   if the company is in denial about it or [TS]

00:33:48   if they're I don't know but it's a to me [TS]

00:33:52   and again i don't i'm not saying they [TS]

00:33:54   need to because need is the wrong word [TS]

00:33:57   but I they ought to if it's true that [TS]

00:34:00   they're going to have some kind of event [TS]

00:34:01   this month to announce you know the [TS]

00:34:04   rumors are rampant that they're going to [TS]

00:34:06   have new iPad pro so we can talk about [TS]

00:34:08   that in a moment but iPad new iPads [TS]

00:34:11   maybe like updated iphone SE maybe red [TS]

00:34:16   iphone 7s maybe even a new imac although [TS]

00:34:20   i don't there's not as much smoke to [TS]

00:34:22   that shatter yeah fire but but on the [TS]

00:34:26   other hand I max often don't get the [TS]

00:34:30   attention in the supply chain asian [TS]

00:34:33   supply chain rumor chain that that iOS [TS]

00:34:35   products do so maybe it's just that but [TS]

00:34:37   I don't I haven't heard anything about [TS]

00:34:39   new mac pros um no aside from people [TS]

00:34:42   complaining that they're not here right [TS]

00:34:44   but I I really think Apple ought to and [TS]

00:34:47   it's a knock and it wouldn't be [TS]

00:34:48   comfortable but I really think that [TS]

00:34:50   Apple ought to somehow address that [TS]

00:34:53   elephant in the room at the event even [TS]

00:34:55   if they have nothing to say and and I [TS]

00:34:58   don't know exactly because I don't know [TS]

00:35:00   exactly what their plans are I don't [TS]

00:35:02   know you know but they have really ought [TS]

00:35:04   to say something more than you know they [TS]

00:35:07   should let Mac Pro users know what what [TS]

00:35:10   what the heck is going on [TS]

00:35:12   and then dollars the lag that this is [TS]

00:35:14   ridiculous the thing that really [TS]

00:35:16   frustrates me and I kind of forget about [TS]

00:35:18   it until it gets brought up again is the [TS]

00:35:22   fact that they're still currently [TS]

00:35:23   selling the very very out of date Mac [TS]

00:35:26   Pro write it and and not at a discount [TS]

00:35:29   either it's just full price for a what [TS]

00:35:33   four and a half year old computer right [TS]

00:35:36   and that's another policy that that has [TS]

00:35:39   trade-offs but makes sense from Apple's [TS]

00:35:41   prospectus this policy of that they [TS]

00:35:43   don't cut product prices as the life [TS]

00:35:46   goes on like so if they come out with a [TS]

00:35:49   mac book and it doesn't get updated for [TS]

00:35:52   15 months in that 14th month when the [TS]

00:35:56   new mac when the old macbooks have only [TS]

00:35:58   one month but they haven't been replaced [TS]

00:35:59   yet they still sell it the same price [TS]

00:36:01   whereas dell you go to del that the [TS]

00:36:03   laptops it's like buying commodities you [TS]

00:36:06   know like every month they go up and [TS]

00:36:08   down and price based on you know where [TS]

00:36:10   the ram market is an SSD components [TS]

00:36:12   dropping you know and they come up with [TS]

00:36:14   weird prices like you configure your [TS]

00:36:16   dell computer and its eight hundred [TS]

00:36:18   sixty seven dollars or something like [TS]

00:36:19   that instead of 899 Apple under your [TS]

00:36:22   sales to write an apple pics prices that [TS]

00:36:25   are that are the price is part of the [TS]

00:36:27   marketing where they have nice even you [TS]

00:36:29   know it's 24 99 and it's going to stay [TS]

00:36:31   24 99 and part of the reason they don't [TS]

00:36:33   drop it to 2299 14 months after it came [TS]

00:36:37   out is so that when the next one comes [TS]

00:36:39   out they can use the same price point [TS]

00:36:41   and so clearly that's what they're doing [TS]

00:36:42   with the mac pro is maintaining these [TS]

00:36:44   price points to that when the [TS]

00:36:45   replacements come out it doesn't look [TS]

00:36:46   like the prices went up by two thousand [TS]

00:36:48   dollars lot worse but it only works when [TS]

00:36:51   the product development is functional [TS]

00:36:53   and it comes out on a regular basis like [TS]

00:36:55   you can sell an 11 month old computer at [TS]

00:36:58   the same price and you're only asking [TS]

00:37:02   for a small premium you can do it on it [TS]

00:37:05   let's say it's an 18-month development [TS]

00:37:07   cycle you can do it at the seventeenth [TS]

00:37:09   month and expect that informed consumers [TS]

00:37:13   know oh this is not the time to buy a [TS]

00:37:15   mac pro at 17 months old there's [TS]

00:37:17   probably a new one coming but to do it [TS]

00:37:18   with a a three year old computer is root [TS]

00:37:21   it it's embarrassing it's insulting a [TS]

00:37:24   little bit and it's [TS]

00:37:26   like you said because there's no new [TS]

00:37:29   product and they're just parading the [TS]

00:37:32   fact you know the latest and greatest [TS]

00:37:34   software I forget a while back someone [TS]

00:37:37   posted to Twitter you know the mac pro [TS]

00:37:39   with the latest and greatest software [TS]

00:37:40   including aperture something that's been [TS]

00:37:43   sunset right maybe fix that is that [TS]

00:37:46   still on the website I actually don't [TS]

00:37:48   know I'm I wouldn't be surprised if it [TS]

00:37:51   still was because that's the problem is [TS]

00:37:53   that it just doesn't feel like the mac [TS]

00:37:55   pro is a priority and honestly even if [TS]

00:37:57   it was just I don't know yeah I would [TS]

00:38:00   much rather they pull the product off [TS]

00:38:03   the market and say coming soon and just [TS]

00:38:07   you know you want to make it nebulous [TS]

00:38:08   just say we have you know do they do the [TS]

00:38:11   nebulous apple store thing we have [TS]

00:38:13   something great in store for you and [TS]

00:38:15   then just leave it like that and I'd [TS]

00:38:17   rather be speculating about oh well they [TS]

00:38:19   have something in the pipeline and who [TS]

00:38:21   knows what will come out in 20 17 or 20 [TS]

00:38:24   19 but they still have something in the [TS]

00:38:26   pipeline where is right now they're [TS]

00:38:28   basically saying that by not [TS]

00:38:30   discontinuing the mac pro but every year [TS]

00:38:34   that the old Mac Pro still said stays on [TS]

00:38:37   sale it's just it's frustrating and it's [TS]

00:38:40   also it's one of those things where yeah [TS]

00:38:43   you can sell an 11 month old computer [TS]

00:38:45   you can even sell an 18 month old [TS]

00:38:46   computer but once you start selling a [TS]

00:38:49   computer that's been on the market [TS]

00:38:51   longer than it's covered by applecare [TS]

00:38:52   what's that like people would actively [TS]

00:38:55   use it that's when I start getting a [TS]

00:38:58   little bit uncomfortable yeah and one of [TS]

00:39:01   the weird things when I published that [TS]

00:39:02   piece the recent piece about that the [TS]

00:39:04   video guy is getting out of it I got [TS]

00:39:06   some amazing emails from some some [TS]

00:39:09   daring fireball readers most of them in [TS]

00:39:11   the video industry specifically although [TS]

00:39:13   one guy was like an AI researcher which [TS]

00:39:15   is where I got that idea earlier before [TS]

00:39:16   where his team was going to I forget [TS]

00:39:21   what exactly area they're working but [TS]

00:39:23   more or less they just wanted to have [TS]

00:39:24   massive amounts of computing to throw [TS]

00:39:26   this at and in years past because they [TS]

00:39:28   work on Mac OS 10 and prefer the mac as [TS]

00:39:32   a good development environment just [TS]

00:39:34   would have gone to apple and just bought [TS]

00:39:36   gobs of mac pro's and hooked them [TS]

00:39:38   together for parallel [TS]

00:39:39   processing but instead built their own [TS]

00:39:41   little network out of linux boxes which [TS]

00:39:43   none of them had previous experience [TS]

00:39:44   they know the mac pro and it wouldn't [TS]

00:39:50   have been have had to do a bunch of [TS]

00:39:52   learning about linux before they got to [TS]

00:39:55   the AI work that they really got wanted [TS]

00:39:57   to do that would had to do more work up [TS]

00:39:59   front to learn how to even set it up but [TS]

00:40:01   then it was worth it because it was so [TS]

00:40:03   much faster and we now we can just buy [TS]

00:40:05   these boxes and just throw them at the [TS]

00:40:06   thing but i heard from a bunch of video [TS]

00:40:09   president in movie industry including [TS]

00:40:11   somebody was working on like a Superman [TS]

00:40:14   I'm not going to say the name because it [TS]

00:40:15   was I just treat emails confidentially [TS]

00:40:18   but let's just say a movie with like a [TS]

00:40:20   hundred and fifty million dollar budget [TS]

00:40:22   that's an upcoming summer blockbuster [TS]

00:40:24   and that they're still doing editing [TS]

00:40:28   like for dailies on the 2012 mac pro i [TS]

00:40:34   think it's like the version number is [TS]

00:40:35   like five comma 1 but like the last the [TS]

00:40:38   last cheese grater mac pros they had [TS]

00:40:40   like seven of them on you know on [TS]

00:40:44   location for like editing dailies and [TS]

00:40:46   stuff which is ridiculous like that's [TS]

00:40:49   unbelievable that not only is the mac [TS]

00:40:52   pro as yet as they're selling it with [TS]

00:40:54   three years old but that there are [TS]

00:40:56   industry professionals where money is [TS]

00:40:58   clearly not the problem you just prefer [TS]

00:41:01   to work on it on a five year old [TS]

00:41:04   computer and they said like it's you [TS]

00:41:06   know in that part of it with this movie [TS]

00:41:08   is you know we we want to use what we [TS]

00:41:11   what we're familiar with but that the [TS]

00:41:14   writing's on the wall and that they're [TS]

00:41:15   moving you know next big thing might be [TS]

00:41:17   on Windows yeah which is heartbreaking [TS]

00:41:20   it is it's very frustrating as I said [TS]

00:41:24   it's if you spent 12 years learning your [TS]

00:41:27   craft and yes if you're in the digital [TS]

00:41:30   video industry your craft is constantly [TS]

00:41:32   changing and it's your job to keep [TS]

00:41:34   abreast of all of those changes but at [TS]

00:41:36   the same time you know if you put 12 [TS]

00:41:39   years of work into mastering Final Cut [TS]

00:41:41   Pro and you're an expert at final cut [TS]

00:41:43   and you're an expert at the you know [TS]

00:41:45   compressor and the various workflows and [TS]

00:41:47   then they're essentially like yeah well [TS]

00:41:49   but apples just given up on it so now we [TS]

00:41:52   have to move away [TS]

00:41:53   like I don't know if you ever did any [TS]

00:41:56   graphics illustration but I remember you [TS]

00:41:59   know back when free when macromedia free [TS]

00:42:01   hand was the thing yeah back in the 90s [TS]

00:42:04   people like professionals and students [TS]

00:42:08   clung to free hand for god knows like 10 [TS]

00:42:11   years after it was discontinued because [TS]

00:42:14   they had their workflows and they had [TS]

00:42:16   like the ability to work through it like [TS]

00:42:18   work in it but but unfortunately [TS]

00:42:20   illustration you know 2d illustration is [TS]

00:42:22   vastly different than 3d modeling you [TS]

00:42:25   have to be using latest and greatest [TS]

00:42:28   software and hardware in order to be [TS]

00:42:29   doing that and to have your stuff look [TS]

00:42:32   like it belongs in a modern film you [TS]

00:42:34   can't get away with using you know or [TS]

00:42:36   you can really only get away with using [TS]

00:42:38   older equipment for so long before it [TS]

00:42:40   just it explodes in your face no I [TS]

00:42:42   remember those days well I never did [TS]

00:42:44   much illustration but I you know I was [TS]

00:42:46   more of a layout person so I was one [TS]

00:42:48   QuarkXPress was my jam as they say ah [TS]

00:42:51   pagemaker yeah but there was the yeah [TS]

00:42:55   that the graphic if you worked in [TS]

00:42:56   graphic design print you needed a layout [TS]

00:42:59   program which is probably their core [TS]

00:43:01   core pagemaker i was on the quark side [TS]

00:43:03   you needed a image editor which is [TS]

00:43:06   probably Photoshop and he needed a [TS]

00:43:08   vector illustration app and that's the [TS]

00:43:11   one where it was the hardest fought [TS]

00:43:12   where there was free hand and [TS]

00:43:14   illustrator and I always found I didn't [TS]

00:43:16   really do much illustration it usually [TS]

00:43:18   for me it would be like editing [TS]

00:43:19   something ah or something as basic as [TS]

00:43:22   like let's make we can't ship this font [TS]

00:43:27   sup for some reason so let's make a [TS]

00:43:29   little graphic and convert to outlines [TS]

00:43:31   we don't have to ship the font you know [TS]

00:43:33   for some context where you couldn't send [TS]

00:43:35   somebody that you really want to thought [TS]

00:43:37   yeah you really wanted to just send them [TS]

00:43:39   and just an eps I was always free hand [TS]

00:43:44   made sense to me and I think people who [TS]

00:43:46   like it even though they weren't from [TS]

00:43:47   the same company it there's a in my [TS]

00:43:50   experience a huge correlation between [TS]

00:43:52   people who liked quark xpress in people [TS]

00:43:54   who like free hand that quark quark and [TS]

00:43:56   free hand even know they're from [TS]

00:43:56   different companies worked in people's [TS]

00:43:59   brains the same way and I know people [TS]

00:44:01   who hung on to free hand for oh my you [TS]

00:44:04   said like so many years after the war [TS]

00:44:06   was [TS]

00:44:06   over mm-hmm running running it in Roseto [TS]

00:44:10   way past the yeah cod yeah i think it [TS]

00:44:15   was what it would did mountain lion get [TS]

00:44:16   rid of rosetta lion it was something [TS]

00:44:19   along those lines where I had a [TS]

00:44:21   colleague who literally used free hand [TS]

00:44:24   up until the point that it could no [TS]

00:44:26   longer be supported on their mac at [TS]

00:44:28   which point they finally grudgingly [TS]

00:44:30   switched illustrator so anyway I don't [TS]

00:44:34   know I I feel like this pro question is [TS]

00:44:36   not going to go away and I at this point [TS]

00:44:38   I feel like Tim Cook's say nothing [TS]

00:44:40   answer is no longer again I'm not gonna [TS]

00:44:43   say it's not acceptable it's not like [TS]

00:44:44   anything bad is going to come of Apple [TS]

00:44:46   if they keep pretending like this is [TS]

00:44:48   normal but I think it makes them look [TS]

00:44:50   bad and it does and I think that they [TS]

00:44:53   are just based on my email anecdotally [TS]

00:44:55   there they've passed the point where [TS]

00:44:57   they're starting to lose customers yeah [TS]

00:45:00   I I would agree with that well it's it's [TS]

00:45:03   hit that point where their customers [TS]

00:45:06   have to switch they basically you know [TS]

00:45:08   they have to fish or cut bait at this [TS]

00:45:09   point they can't just be waiting around [TS]

00:45:12   in the water hoping that you know Apple [TS]

00:45:15   will deliver them a giant fish on a [TS]

00:45:16   plate ready to to run a CUDA system for [TS]

00:45:20   their graphics needs and you know a [TS]

00:45:23   beautiful you know the sad thing the [TS]

00:45:25   really sad thing is Final Cut Pro 10 a [TS]

00:45:29   lot of people made a lot of fuss about [TS]

00:45:30   it when it first switched over and for [TS]

00:45:35   good reason you know it was a fairly [TS]

00:45:36   limited program but the people on the [TS]

00:45:38   software side for Final Cut have [TS]

00:45:40   actually been doing some really [TS]

00:45:41   fantastic and smart work and like the [TS]

00:45:43   newest version of final cut their latest [TS]

00:45:46   update which was released I think a [TS]

00:45:47   couple months ago is really like it's a [TS]

00:45:49   dramatic a dramatic improvement on on [TS]

00:45:54   that workflow um and so it hurts it [TS]

00:45:58   hurts my film editor so a little bit [TS]

00:46:00   that Apple wouldn't give its users the [TS]

00:46:04   technology to really take advantage of [TS]

00:46:07   this software that they're developed [TS]

00:46:09   they're also developing in-house like [TS]

00:46:11   you're you're letting down your final [TS]

00:46:12   cut pro team by not giving people the [TS]

00:46:14   kind of hardware they need to run it I [TS]

00:46:16   guess there's some small chance that [TS]

00:46:20   that in this supposed upcoming event in [TS]

00:46:23   March that they might answer this I [TS]

00:46:25   don't think they're good i don't think [TS]

00:46:27   there's any chance that they're going to [TS]

00:46:29   answer it by announcing a new mac pro [TS]

00:46:30   but maybe they'll let maybe they'll have [TS]

00:46:32   like a new imac that they'll say is [TS]

00:46:35   whether they call it the imac pro or [TS]

00:46:37   just say that this is a professional [TS]

00:46:39   expect machine and give strong enough [TS]

00:46:41   hints that yes this is our answer and [TS]

00:46:43   maybe then take the mac pro's off the [TS]

00:46:45   market or lower them in price or hide [TS]

00:46:48   them on apple.com take away the aperture [TS]

00:46:52   mention right yeah there's a chance yeah [TS]

00:46:56   i mean honestly I could see that [TS]

00:46:58   happening if Apple essentially just said [TS]

00:47:01   hey we made in we made a way for you to [TS]

00:47:04   have an external graphics card and have [TS]

00:47:07   it work properly on the mac right i [TS]

00:47:09   think that would actually that would [TS]

00:47:11   solve a lot of graphics professionals [TS]

00:47:13   problems yeah because the main issue [TS]

00:47:15   right now and then there there are a [TS]

00:47:17   couple of third-party third-party boxes [TS]

00:47:20   that'll do this where you can plug in an [TS]

00:47:21   Nvidia CUDA card and then try and you [TS]

00:47:24   know run it off but there's always going [TS]

00:47:26   to be latency right because it's not [TS]

00:47:27   it's not built to the same specs and [TS]

00:47:29   it's not built internally to Apple but [TS]

00:47:32   the question is really is Apple you know [TS]

00:47:34   just apple care about that does apple [TS]

00:47:36   care about the small niche of users who [TS]

00:47:39   are going to want a CUDA card when [TS]

00:47:41   editing graphics yeah uh I don't know [TS]

00:47:45   what to say we could talk about the [TS]

00:47:46   other rumors about the yeah in a moment [TS]

00:47:49   but less depressing yeah that's the ones [TS]

00:47:52   that'll make us happy ah but in the [TS]

00:47:54   meantime I'm going to take a break here [TS]

00:47:55   and thank our next sponsor it's our good [TS]

00:47:57   friends at Harry's Harry's makes [TS]

00:48:00   terrific shaving products it was started [TS]

00:48:03   by two guys Jeff and Andy were fed up [TS]

00:48:05   with being overcharged for razors [TS]

00:48:07   literally the one day at one of them was [TS]

00:48:09   in the drug store buying replacement [TS]

00:48:12   razor blades and had to wait for someone [TS]

00:48:14   to come over and unlock the case because [TS]

00:48:17   they're like frequently shoplifted items [TS]

00:48:19   and then bought them and then realized [TS]

00:48:21   that it's like it's a lot of money per [TS]

00:48:23   blade for a product that's no fun to buy [TS]

00:48:25   so they came up with this idea let's [TS]

00:48:27   make our own blades will sell them [TS]

00:48:29   direct and will undercut the big-name [TS]

00:48:31   brands on prices they literally bought [TS]

00:48:34   their own factory a hundred-year-old [TS]

00:48:36   blade making factory in Germany they [TS]

00:48:40   make these blades they sell them [TS]

00:48:42   directly online and they shipping to you [TS]

00:48:43   for half the price to the leading brand [TS]

00:48:45   I I did one of my favorite things [TS]

00:48:47   they've been sponsoring the show for [TS]

00:48:49   years when I first started sponsoring [TS]

00:48:50   they sent me a kit with a razor and we [TS]

00:48:52   had like a chrome handle I had it for [TS]

00:48:55   years and then a couple months ago they [TS]

00:48:57   came out with like a new slightly [TS]

00:48:59   updated version then they sent me [TS]

00:49:00   another one and has like a more of a [TS]

00:49:02   rubbery handle which I actually kind of [TS]

00:49:03   like because to me it's not slippery but [TS]

00:49:07   I looked at my chrome one that was like [TS]

00:49:08   three or four years old and it still [TS]

00:49:11   looked brand new it's absolutely crazy [TS]

00:49:13   how well like you couldn't tell which [TS]

00:49:15   one was the new one which one was the [TS]

00:49:16   old one their product design is really [TS]

00:49:18   really great their packaging design is [TS]

00:49:21   really really great I said this before [TS]

00:49:23   I'll say it again I always feel bad when [TS]

00:49:24   I like finish a pack of blades from [TS]

00:49:26   Harry's because it doesn't look like to [TS]

00:49:28   type a box you throw away it looks like [TS]

00:49:29   the type of box you keep but that's you [TS]

00:49:31   know that's that way lights at an [TS]

00:49:33   appearance on the hoarders show sorry [TS]

00:49:35   alright I do throw them away but it [TS]

00:49:37   always there's always a pang of guilt [TS]

00:49:39   that I'm throwing away such a nice nice [TS]

00:49:41   box all this for two dollars a blade [TS]

00:49:45   more or less compared to the four [TS]

00:49:46   dollars or more you will pay at the [TS]

00:49:48   drugstore for a big name brand they are [TS]

00:49:50   so confident in the quality of their [TS]

00:49:51   blades that they want you to try their [TS]

00:49:53   most popular trial set for free it comes [TS]

00:49:57   with a razor handle of your choice five [TS]

00:49:59   blade cartridge and shaving gel it's [TS]

00:50:02   free when you sign up you just pay a [TS]

00:50:04   small fee for shipping that's it redeem [TS]

00:50:07   your free trial offer go to Harry's calm [TS]

00:50:09   / talk show right now Harry's har ry s [TS]

00:50:14   calm / talk show alright does this I dis [TS]

00:50:21   rampant rumor that there's going to be [TS]

00:50:23   three new iPad pros 9.7 that I guess [TS]

00:50:27   it's just a faster version of the 9.7 we [TS]

00:50:29   have now 12.9 it's like a faster better [TS]

00:50:31   version of the one we have right now and [TS]

00:50:33   a 10.5 inch diagonal screen that goes [TS]

00:50:37   Ed's dad's does this make any sense yeah [TS]

00:50:40   I wanted to I [TS]

00:50:45   I don't know I I can see how they've [TS]

00:50:49   been staggering iPad updates over the [TS]

00:50:51   last 18 months where you know they they [TS]

00:50:54   started with a 12.9 in the pro and put [TS]

00:50:57   all of their latest and greatest new [TS]

00:50:59   features into that and then the next [TS]

00:51:01   spring may have the 9.7 inch ipad pro [TS]

00:51:04   and they had almost all of the features [TS]

00:51:06   from the 12.9 and some new stuff like [TS]

00:51:09   true tone and threw it into that and i [TS]

00:51:11   get i guess i could see them throwing a [TS]

00:51:14   third option into the mix and saying [TS]

00:51:17   let's let's see if this sticks let's see [TS]

00:51:19   if this is better but I'd I just don't [TS]

00:51:22   understand why they wouldn't update the [TS]

00:51:26   line at once right like having I guess [TS]

00:51:28   they're gonna ship a new edge to edge [TS]

00:51:30   design that takes out the chin and [TS]

00:51:33   forehead or greatly reduces them why [TS]

00:51:35   wouldn't you do it in two sizes mm-hmm [TS]

00:51:38   exactly like I understand why they [TS]

00:51:40   launched the night that 12 9 and then [TS]

00:51:42   launched the 97 because they were still [TS]

00:51:45   working on trying to put the technology [TS]

00:51:46   of the 12 9 in the screen into the 97 I [TS]

00:51:49   get that part but if you're going to [TS]

00:51:51   launch a 10-5 like the smaller one is [TS]

00:51:55   the harder one so presumably why [TS]

00:51:57   wouldn't you launch the 10 5 and then [TS]

00:51:59   also launched that that version in the [TS]

00:52:02   12 9 and then keep the 97 as that's your [TS]

00:52:07   that's your new ipad air version [TS]

00:52:09   basically that's the old ipad pro 9.7 is [TS]

00:52:12   now just a regular old ipad air and [TS]

00:52:14   these two the 10.5 and then whatever the [TS]

00:52:17   12.9 becomes these are your you know [TS]

00:52:20   really awesome iPads right to just throw [TS]

00:52:23   in like one in the middle it's just it [TS]

00:52:26   it feels kind of like taking a dart [TS]

00:52:29   board out and like being like maybe [TS]

00:52:30   they'll like this is the only way it [TS]

00:52:33   makes any sense to me is if this the new [TS]

00:52:35   one with the edge deads design is also a [TS]

00:52:37   lot more expensive like yes it's I don't [TS]

00:52:41   know fifteen hundred dollars or [TS]

00:52:42   something you know so that you say oh I [TS]

00:52:45   get it if I just want to pay what I'm [TS]

00:52:46   used to paying for an iPad pro I'll get [TS]

00:52:48   the new 9.7 which will be you know like [TS]

00:52:51   a year better specs but at the same [TS]

00:52:54   prices as last year maybe with more [TS]

00:52:56   storage or something you know but the [TS]

00:52:58   typical year [TS]

00:52:59   over your Apple upgrade of a product but [TS]

00:53:02   if I'm if I want to spend a lot more [TS]

00:53:06   money i can get this one that's amazing [TS]

00:53:08   because then it's an easy decision but [TS]

00:53:10   if the price range if the prices are [TS]

00:53:12   like comparable it doesn't make any [TS]

00:53:14   sense to me that those products would [TS]

00:53:16   exist alongside each other I can see I'm [TS]

00:53:18   switching to a new design but then they [TS]

00:53:21   would take the old design and keep it [TS]

00:53:23   unchanged and just lower the price [TS]

00:53:24   that's what Apple does yeah it would be [TS]

00:53:26   last year's model the I mean I could see [TS]

00:53:30   them getting rid of the 12 92 and just [TS]

00:53:32   being like here's our you know like what [TS]

00:53:34   they did with the 17-inch macbook pro [TS]

00:53:36   when they switch to the new design of [TS]

00:53:39   macbook pro where they're like okay this [TS]

00:53:41   is a good this was a good thing like [TS]

00:53:43   this was a nice idea but we want to you [TS]

00:53:45   know go with this this design um but [TS]

00:53:48   that doesn't seem to be happening [TS]

00:53:50   according to the rumors the only other [TS]

00:53:52   thing that I can think of is yes there [TS]

00:53:56   their goal is to eventually position the [TS]

00:53:59   9.7 as the entry level and then the 10.5 [TS]

00:54:01   is the first pro machine and eventually [TS]

00:54:04   they're going to make a version of the [TS]

00:54:06   12.9 that looks like the 10.5 pause for [TS]

00:54:10   dog barking um sorry one second that's [TS]

00:54:15   all right I just don't think he likes [TS]

00:54:17   this iPad rumor enough no she she's like [TS]

00:54:21   iPads I yea sorry that's okay she has it [TS]

00:54:26   she is a very masculine barks oh I [TS]

00:54:27   understand the confusion I yet but my [TS]

00:54:32   thought is all right so the only way I [TS]

00:54:35   can see this making sense is if they've [TS]

00:54:37   tried to make the 12 9 in this new [TS]

00:54:40   configuration and either the battery [TS]

00:54:44   life is not what they want or the [TS]

00:54:46   heaviness is not what they want because [TS]

00:54:48   if you look at the 12 9 right now the 12 [TS]

00:54:50   9 is still a pretty big compromise like [TS]

00:54:53   I switched to the 97 almost instantly [TS]

00:54:56   after it became available and i thought [TS]

00:54:57   i would hate it because i'd gotten so [TS]

00:54:59   used to the wide screen of the 12 9 but [TS]

00:55:02   it was just so much lighter and more [TS]

00:55:04   portable even with an arctic like with [TS]

00:55:06   with the logitech create case that it [TS]

00:55:10   just felt like the no-brainer option [TS]

00:55:12   especially if i still wanted a Mac [TS]

00:55:13   chop around which I need for for some [TS]

00:55:15   for some tasks whereas the 12 9 you know [TS]

00:55:19   is it's it's on the edge of three pounds [TS]

00:55:22   yeah I know all of its it's pretty [TS]

00:55:24   terrible it's not it's not the best [TS]

00:55:27   portable machine for people right I so i [TS]

00:55:31   could see Apple being like well we don't [TS]

00:55:34   want to sell it unless it's good but I [TS]

00:55:36   will get all chili with apple sales long [TS]

00:55:38   like I don't know there's something [TS]

00:55:40   about this 33 iPad product thing that [TS]

00:55:44   just doesn't make any sense to me and I [TS]

00:55:46   can't help but feel that that there's [TS]

00:55:48   there's a large chunk of it to be to [TS]

00:55:53   come that all and then we'll say okay [TS]

00:55:55   now I see it makes sense yeah I'm trying [TS]

00:55:59   to connect the dots here because I'm [TS]

00:56:00   sure it exists I'm sure as you said that [TS]

00:56:03   if if this is a real rumor I'm sure that [TS]

00:56:07   there's a way to connect it all all of [TS]

00:56:10   his disagreeing with me did you see in [TS]

00:56:16   terms of like the way that people do are [TS]

00:56:20   doing work on iPads I there was a great [TS]

00:56:22   thread on Twitter this week we're a [TS]

00:56:25   friend of the show and I'm known to me [TS]

00:56:29   more as like an illustrator Louie Mancha [TS]

00:56:31   is working on a typeface design and sent [TS]

00:56:36   it to Jonathan Hoefler of Hoefler [TS]

00:56:41   accompanied fame on Twitter and just [TS]

00:56:44   said hey do you have any thoughts and [TS]

00:56:45   Jonathan Hoefler took it and like mocked [TS]

00:56:49   up the it's I get was a PDF of the whole [TS]

00:56:51   alphabet that he had drawn and mark this [TS]

00:56:56   up with all of these little notes about [TS]

00:56:57   places where maybe the curves could be [TS]

00:56:59   different and the radii could be [TS]

00:57:01   different and letters you know like here [TS]

00:57:03   take this you did a great thing here [TS]

00:57:05   with the lowercase D but you should do [TS]

00:57:07   the same thing with the lowercase B and [TS]

00:57:09   and i'll put links in the show notes [TS]

00:57:12   I've got him got him here in the notes [TS]

00:57:14   already but it I looked at as a type [TS]

00:57:17   nerd it was super fascinating to see [TS]

00:57:19   this feedback and it all makes sense to [TS]

00:57:21   me and I was like wow that I do I can [TS]

00:57:23   see how that would be better but then I [TS]

00:57:25   instantly thought like I want to know [TS]

00:57:26   how he [TS]

00:57:27   how he did this marking up and so I [TS]

00:57:30   asked and it was uh it was with an apple [TS]

00:57:36   pencil it in an app called notability [TS]

00:57:41   which I have heard it for the ipad but [TS]

00:57:43   it's a PDF you know you can import PDFs [TS]

00:57:47   and then you can draw right on top of [TS]

00:57:48   them and it seems like it's really it's [TS]

00:57:50   been around for a while but it seems [TS]

00:57:51   like it's really embraced the pencil and [TS]

00:57:54   it hoefler said to me that with the 12 [TS]

00:57:58   years was tweet with with the 12 point [TS]

00:58:00   nine inch ipad and the Apple pencil and [TS]

00:58:03   notability they moved all of their [TS]

00:58:06   proofing workflow from paper to screens [TS]

00:58:08   in the last year and they're saving 36 [TS]

00:58:12   thousand pages of printed paper a year [TS]

00:58:14   uh and I found that fascinating like and [TS]

00:58:18   I can totally see and to me what it's [TS]

00:58:20   it's just been an idea it I mean [TS]

00:58:22   everybody talks about it but this whole [TS]

00:58:24   idea of iPads for work and what's the [TS]

00:58:27   future of work computing and that to me [TS]

00:58:29   it comes down to it largely comes down [TS]

00:58:33   to form factors and that iPads and iOS [TS]

00:58:35   have it's not so much that they're [TS]

00:58:38   replacing traditional notebooks and Max [TS]

00:58:42   but that they're they're good for work [TS]

00:58:45   in areas that max never were like I [TS]

00:58:48   don't think it ever even occurred to [TS]

00:58:49   Jonathan F'lar to do to to do their [TS]

00:58:53   their proofing on a Mac yeah you could [TS]

00:59:00   you could take if you had a cintiq [TS]

00:59:02   tablet or even own into us from Wacom [TS]

00:59:05   you could absolutely hook it up to your [TS]

00:59:08   Mac and right on the the typeface are [TS]

00:59:10   right on the PDF but it's just such a it [TS]

00:59:13   was a clunkier experience and the cintiq [TS]

00:59:15   was definitely not a you know is not a [TS]

00:59:17   portable machine you're still kind of [TS]

00:59:18   stunt at your desktop and I think he [TS]

00:59:20   would have found it even founded [TS]

00:59:21   unpleasant compared to his existing [TS]

00:59:23   workflow just printing 36,000 sheets of [TS]

00:59:25   paper a year marking them up with an [TS]

00:59:27   actual you know red pen well the fun [TS]

00:59:29   thing about critique right is that it [TS]

00:59:32   will actually get a chance to step away [TS]

00:59:33   from your desk its remember back when we [TS]

00:59:36   were putting together ebooks for Mac [TS]

00:59:38   world one of my favorite things was to [TS]

00:59:40   get our proof [TS]

00:59:41   and then to make the final edits to go [TS]

00:59:44   likes it up on our on the terrace that [TS]

00:59:45   are at our old space and just you know [TS]

00:59:48   grab a can of coke and my proofs and go [TS]

00:59:50   through them with an old-school red pen [TS]

00:59:52   and yeah I could have like I could have [TS]

00:59:54   done those on an iPad probably an ipad [TS]

00:59:57   air originally but at the time [TS]

00:59:57   air originally but at the time [TS]

01:00:00   we were when we were doing that but it [TS]

01:00:02   just wasn't as tactile sense it like [TS]

01:00:05   satisfying you couldn't really right [TS]

01:00:06   with the styluses that were available at [TS]

01:00:09   that point and the ipad air screen just [TS]

01:00:12   wasn't good enough whereas you take the [TS]

01:00:14   the ipad pro you take the the retina [TS]

01:00:17   display combined with the true tone [TS]

01:00:19   display so it's actually easier to to [TS]

01:00:21   work in all spaces and then the pencil [TS]

01:00:24   which you know in the right app feels [TS]

01:00:27   like writing with pen you know it may [TS]

01:00:29   not have the the tactile sensation on [TS]

01:00:31   the glass but you're still getting the [TS]

01:00:33   right approximation of what you want to [TS]

01:00:35   draw and how you want to draw it and [TS]

01:00:37   that's really really important for doing [TS]

01:00:40   things like that but it's it is [TS]

01:00:41   fascinating to me you know i don't know [TS]

01:00:43   if you saw it I was doing this iPad pros [TS]

01:00:46   experiment where I essentially put a [TS]

01:00:49   call out on Twitter and via I'm or just [TS]

01:00:53   being like hey I really want to know [TS]

01:00:55   what what everybody's using their iPad [TS]

01:00:58   pro for when it comes to work like just [TS]

01:01:00   send me an email give me the gist of [TS]

01:01:02   like what you're doing um and you know [TS]

01:01:05   if it's cool i'll shoot you an email and [TS]

01:01:07   we'll do some interviews and the amount [TS]

01:01:11   of responses that i got in 24 hours [TS]

01:01:14   really kind of blew me away and it [TS]

01:01:16   wasn't just like here the three [TS]

01:01:18   industries where the ipad pro is being [TS]

01:01:20   used it was across the board like all [TS]

01:01:23   kinds of crazy things like we I had a [TS]

01:01:25   there's a large number of people in IT [TS]

01:01:27   who use the iPad for you know running [TS]

01:01:32   around on the go because it's easier to [TS]

01:01:34   carry with them than like a little [TS]

01:01:35   Chromebook um the one of the cooler ones [TS]

01:01:39   that I found out about is there's [TS]

01:01:40   someone who's getting their PhD at [TS]

01:01:42   Harvard in ancient writing who uses the [TS]

01:01:46   ipad to help recreate and scan and [TS]

01:01:49   analyze this you know ancient uh you [TS]

01:01:52   know pre pre Roman handwriting on [TS]

01:01:55   there's Kyle Lambert of course who drew [TS]

01:01:58   the poster for stranger things and [TS]

01:02:00   almost entirely on his iPad the one that [TS]

01:02:03   you know that Netflix used like and [TS]

01:02:06   that's like that that's the traditional [TS]

01:02:07   thing you think of is like hofler [TS]

01:02:09   Hoefler you know doing annotation with a [TS]

01:02:12   pencil [TS]

01:02:13   or drawing with a pencil but there are [TS]

01:02:15   so many other industries and weird use [TS]

01:02:20   cases that I just don't think people [TS]

01:02:21   really realize are being filled by the [TS]

01:02:24   iPad in like you said in in environments [TS]

01:02:28   where it just either didn't make sense [TS]

01:02:30   to have a mac or a computer or something [TS]

01:02:32   where maybe a mac or a computer was [TS]

01:02:34   filling this gap but not as well as it [TS]

01:02:37   could have been I i also think and [TS]

01:02:40   there's obviously some legacy aspects to [TS]

01:02:41   pdfs and eight and a half by 11 paper or [TS]

01:02:44   for our friends on the other side of the [TS]

01:02:45   pond a for dimension paper and so [TS]

01:02:50   there's some legacy aspects to that [TS]

01:02:51   where if you're if you're in an industry [TS]

01:02:53   like the law or something like that [TS]

01:02:55   where where things get published in [TS]

01:02:57   there if you don't deal with it on paper [TS]

01:02:59   you are dealing it with a PDF that [TS]

01:03:03   assumes that it's printed on eight a [TS]

01:03:04   half by 11 paper where the 9.7 inch ipad [TS]

01:03:08   screen is a little too small it's [TS]

01:03:10   readable and you know but it's it's just [TS]

01:03:14   shrunk down enough that it's it's [TS]

01:03:16   there's a reason why that's not the size [TS]

01:03:18   of the paper we use for sure whereas on [TS]

01:03:21   the 12.9 it is but then there's other [TS]

01:03:23   areas like it's just nicer artistically [TS]

01:03:28   to have a bigger canvas you know like I [TS]

01:03:31   think with Hoefler you know like I don't [TS]

01:03:33   think there was any reason that they had [TS]

01:03:34   to stick you know that I think he went [TS]

01:03:36   with the 12.9 not because it was a [TS]

01:03:38   legacy process if they moved their whole [TS]

01:03:40   workflow from from paper to screens they [TS]

01:03:42   could abandon the size I just think that [TS]

01:03:45   artistic it's just better to look at him [TS]

01:03:48   bigger and to be able to zoom up and to [TS]

01:03:49   have a bigger canvas oh yeah yeah no [TS]

01:03:53   it's it's one of those things where if I [TS]

01:03:56   was doing illustration on a regular [TS]

01:03:58   basis I think the 12.9 would be my daily [TS]

01:04:01   carry without question because it really [TS]

01:04:04   is there's something really wonderful [TS]

01:04:07   being able to work at that larger screen [TS]

01:04:10   size especially when you're sketching I [TS]

01:04:12   don't know if you've ever taken like a [TS]

01:04:13   life drawing class or anything where [TS]

01:04:15   you're being asked to make like big [TS]

01:04:17   giant strokes with your pencil and [TS]

01:04:19   taking your entire arm into the process [TS]

01:04:23   not just like sketching with your wrist [TS]

01:04:26   that kind of those kind of big movements [TS]

01:04:27   but traditionally in an illustration [TS]

01:04:30   class you really can only get by working [TS]

01:04:33   on you know big canvas paper because if [TS]

01:04:35   you work on an eight and a half by [TS]

01:04:36   eleven you're just gonna strike you know [TS]

01:04:38   strike the thing off of the screen but [TS]

01:04:40   the twelve point nine inch iPad is one [TS]

01:04:42   of the first where I actually felt like [TS]

01:04:43   you could do life drawing sketches on it [TS]

01:04:46   and not feel like you were drawing you [TS]

01:04:49   know essentially on a post-it note yep I [TS]

01:04:52   I feel like we as there's a part of us [TS]

01:04:56   anybody whether you like apple stuff for [TS]

01:04:58   like you know or you don't but where you [TS]

01:05:01   feel like it's there seems like there's [TS]

01:05:06   a rational part of your brain that sees [TS]

01:05:08   owning an iPad and a macbook or just a [TS]

01:05:11   tablet and a notebook if you have other [TS]

01:05:14   operating systems as wasteful that [TS]

01:05:17   you've got two things that are basically [TS]

01:05:18   the same size 10 to 15 inches and the [TS]

01:05:25   same thing a computer with an LCD screen [TS]

01:05:27   and some way to set up a keyboard and [TS]

01:05:30   maybe touch etc you just feel like well [TS]

01:05:33   there should only be one and so that [TS]

01:05:34   there's a logical argument to the [TS]

01:05:37   surface book movement right but I can't [TS]

01:05:42   I've been thinking about this a lot [TS]

01:05:43   lately I just you know I think it really [TS]

01:05:47   just depends on the type of work that [TS]

01:05:49   you do and I me at that there are [TS]

01:05:52   certain tasks and it's certainly the [TS]

01:05:55   ones that computers got goop personal [TS]

01:05:56   computers got good at first in the last [TS]

01:05:59   few decades that basically involves you [TS]

01:06:02   sitting down at a table or a desk with [TS]

01:06:05   your palms flat on a keyboard that's [TS]

01:06:09   flat with some sort of pointing device a [TS]

01:06:13   mouse or a trackpad right next to it [TS]

01:06:15   that you use to deal with the screen [TS]

01:06:19   that is more or less horizontal in front [TS]

01:06:22   of you there's a whole bunch of tasks [TS]

01:06:23   where that form factor is terrific and [TS]

01:06:28   if that's type of work you do like let's [TS]

01:06:30   just say you get your have a job where [TS]

01:06:32   you have just lots of emails that you [TS]

01:06:33   have to answer every day so you're [TS]

01:06:35   typing a lot not just reading it's a [TS]

01:06:37   terrific form factor [TS]

01:06:39   and you can see why I like with the new [TS]

01:06:44   macbooks and MacBook Pros where the [TS]

01:06:46   displays have gotten ever thinner than [TS]

01:06:48   before so thin that they can't even [TS]

01:06:50   light up the Apple anymore it's the [TS]

01:06:55   hinge is so great it is so much easier [TS]

01:06:57   to put a mac setup a macbook at a desk [TS]

01:07:00   in front of you like in a coffee shop [TS]

01:07:02   than to set up an ipad with a keyboard [TS]

01:07:05   sure and again it's you know what are we [TS]

01:07:08   talking about 10 seconds is it you know [TS]

01:07:10   five ten seconds to just do the little [TS]

01:07:12   foldy thing with your keyboard and get [TS]

01:07:14   it in but it's not long but it adds up [TS]

01:07:17   right it's like guys the little things [TS]

01:07:19   it's just not optimized for it if that's [TS]

01:07:21   your main point of work and then when [TS]

01:07:23   you close it it's even more work right [TS]

01:07:25   and because you have to unfold all of [TS]

01:07:28   that right and I'm not denying that for [TS]

01:07:30   some people that there's tons of people [TS]

01:07:31   who just love writing on their iPads and [TS]

01:07:33   that's a trade-off they're willing to [TS]

01:07:34   accept but you don't see how anybody [TS]

01:07:36   could deny that an iPad set up in laptop [TS]

01:07:40   configuration no matter which brand [TS]

01:07:42   keyboard you're using is like it's [TS]

01:07:45   backwards its top-heavy the screen is [TS]

01:07:49   the heavy part with the battery and the [TS]

01:07:50   keyboard is the light part whereas a [TS]

01:07:53   macbook is oriented the right way where [TS]

01:07:56   there's a heavy bass and a super light [TS]

01:07:58   screen mm-hmm and I just think more and [TS]

01:08:03   more but it's just taking a long time to [TS]

01:08:05   find them we're finding these other [TS]

01:08:06   contexts whether it's the actual task [TS]

01:08:09   you want to do like illustration like if [TS]

01:08:11   you actually want the dude you know [TS]

01:08:12   you're drawing something on a screen to [TS]

01:08:15   mark it up or if it's just about where [TS]

01:08:18   you are that you're not at a desk you [TS]

01:08:21   know like you said like these two [TS]

01:08:22   segments who are walking around and [TS]

01:08:24   maybe want to be doing stuff on screen [TS]

01:08:26   while they're standing where an iPad is [TS]

01:08:29   better and as nothing to do with iOS I [TS]

01:08:32   guess I think we've also collected we [TS]

01:08:34   spent too much time worrying about the [TS]

01:08:36   differences between iOS and mac OS not [TS]

01:08:37   that they don't matter but that a large [TS]

01:08:39   part of it is just the human form factor [TS]

01:08:41   of where you are you standing are you [TS]

01:08:43   sitting are you actually typing that [TS]

01:08:46   that matter more absolutely well I think [TS]

01:08:49   about just going back to illustration I [TS]

01:08:52   how many different sketchbooks I had in [TS]

01:08:55   college right and granted a sketchbook [TS]

01:08:58   is a little bit cheaper than a full-size [TS]

01:09:00   computer but still you know I was [TS]

01:09:02   spending quite a lot of money on six [TS]

01:09:05   seven eight different sizes of paper [TS]

01:09:08   because you know in some cases a [TS]

01:09:11   notebook is going to make sense in other [TS]

01:09:13   cases apost it's going to make sense in [TS]

01:09:15   other cases a you know 36 inch canvas is [TS]

01:09:18   going to make sense it's all about [TS]

01:09:21   finding the right tool and the right the [TS]

01:09:25   right product that works for you and in [TS]

01:09:27   the case of the iPad and everything that [TS]

01:09:31   goes around it um what's really [TS]

01:09:34   important is how those things all fit [TS]

01:09:37   together right if I'm going to use my [TS]

01:09:39   iPad actually like one one of the [TS]

01:09:42   reasons i got my very first ipad back in [TS]

01:09:44   2010 was yes I wanted to sketch with it [TS]

01:09:47   and I was really excited about that but [TS]

01:09:49   at the time I was doing I was doing a [TS]

01:09:52   job in a in a t-shirt online t-shirt [TS]

01:09:57   manufacturing company and I was indexing [TS]

01:10:00   what t-shirts we had in stock and before [TS]

01:10:03   the iPad that meant manually going down [TS]

01:10:06   all of the Isles of the t-shirts with a [TS]

01:10:09   tiny little out of date windows laptop [TS]

01:10:12   on it on a cart we could just be like [TS]

01:10:14   pulling it over this factory floor as we [TS]

01:10:17   went like box by box to count like how [TS]

01:10:20   many sizes of smalls how many sizes of [TS]

01:10:22   mediums how many sizes of large and once [TS]

01:10:25   we got the ipad we could very easily [TS]

01:10:27   enter that into our online inventory [TS]

01:10:29   just by carrying the ipad around and [TS]

01:10:32   selecting you know okay this is this has [TS]

01:10:35   three smalls great and we no longer had [TS]

01:10:37   to use the little cart or you know the [TS]

01:10:40   heavy laptop or worry about knocking it [TS]

01:10:42   over to the ground which happened i [TS]

01:10:44   think on multiple occasions right so [TS]

01:10:46   like it is are the things in broad [TS]

01:10:48   strokes the notebook computer you know [TS]

01:10:51   the traditional one like that doesn't [TS]

01:10:53   have a detachable screen that turns into [TS]

01:10:55   a tablet halfway you know does tries to [TS]

01:10:57   do both is duplicating the form factor [TS]

01:10:59   of the typewriter and of the adding [TS]

01:11:00   machine and of other things that people [TS]

01:11:04   have done at desks for a long long time [TS]

01:11:06   way before their computers the iPad in [TS]

01:11:08   some ways it's like in your story there [TS]

01:11:10   is duplicating a clipboard we again is a [TS]

01:11:14   long-standing form factor for getting [TS]

01:11:16   work done you don't think of a kind of [TS]

01:11:20   work right but it's largely based on the [TS]

01:11:23   context of where you are and it's not so [TS]

01:11:25   much just purely an argument or even [TS]

01:11:28   less really purely an argument about [TS]

01:11:29   operating systems yeah the operating [TS]

01:11:33   system could be you know going back to [TS]

01:11:35   Steve Jobs is original comment about the [TS]

01:11:37   ipad like it's a blank slate all the [TS]

01:11:39   operating system really needs to do is [TS]

01:11:41   get out of the way so that you can do [TS]

01:11:43   your work whether or not that I you know [TS]

01:11:45   that operating system lets you run one [TS]

01:11:47   app at a time or 20 apps at a time what [TS]

01:11:50   the real question should be is this [TS]

01:11:53   easier to do my work on then the thing I [TS]

01:11:56   had before and if the answer is yes then [TS]

01:12:00   then you get it then it becomes part of [TS]

01:12:02   your workflow I mean obviously assuming [TS]

01:12:03   you have the money and all of that but [TS]

01:12:05   like that's that's how it fits in you [TS]

01:12:07   know I carry a 9.7 inch iPad pro and a [TS]

01:12:10   macbook pro not because oh I want to you [TS]

01:12:13   know duplicate the writing functionality [TS]

01:12:15   on both and oh that's going to be so [TS]

01:12:17   clunky blah blah blah I carry around the [TS]

01:12:19   ipad pro because there are times when i [TS]

01:12:22   want to sketch something out or there [TS]

01:12:23   are times that i want to write free hand [TS]

01:12:24   and the ipad pro has essentially [TS]

01:12:26   replaced my old school like big [TS]

01:12:29   moleskine sketchbook that I used to [TS]

01:12:30   carry around with my macbook pro um I [TS]

01:12:34   guess I could do that as a convertible [TS]

01:12:36   tablet if I really wanted to but that [TS]

01:12:38   kill then we get into battery life comp [TS]

01:12:41   talks you know that's the that's [TS]

01:12:42   honestly my big thing about multiple you [TS]

01:12:45   know convertible devices if I want to [TS]

01:12:48   sketch I'm probably going to want to [TS]

01:12:50   sketch for like you know six seven hours [TS]

01:12:53   or have that you know have that ability [TS]

01:12:55   to just kind of pull this iPad out [TS]

01:12:57   whenever and just sketch on it whereas [TS]

01:13:00   my laptop is the big you know that's [TS]

01:13:02   that's the thing that you carry around [TS]

01:13:04   and do your powerhouse work on when [TS]

01:13:05   you're not at your desk and if you have [TS]

01:13:08   a convertible where it's like oh well [TS]

01:13:10   you turn it into tablet mode and then [TS]

01:13:13   you kill most of your battery sketching [TS]

01:13:15   on the train for instance and then you [TS]

01:13:17   actually get to a point where you want [TS]

01:13:19   to use it to do nor [TS]

01:13:20   work then you have five percent battery [TS]

01:13:22   and you have to plug in at which point [TS]

01:13:24   it's a desk computer again did you see [TS]

01:13:26   the there's a new Windows 10 don't [TS]

01:13:31   forget what they call these things [TS]

01:13:32   though the dual systems where they call [TS]

01:13:34   him okay what convertible at Myrtle's [TS]

01:13:37   yeah yeah so a new one from porsche [TS]

01:13:39   design which was it's not out yet but it [TS]

01:13:43   was announced at the mobile web conde [TS]

01:13:46   you CWC which and it looks nice it does [TS]

01:13:50   I'd like to see one but even though it [TS]

01:13:57   looks nice and i think the hinge looks [TS]

01:13:58   much nicer than microsoft's surface [TS]

01:14:00   hinge which doesn't you know like that [TS]

01:14:03   it doesn't belittle it looks like it [TS]

01:14:05   belongs in a in an alien movie or [TS]

01:14:07   something yeah and and it means that the [TS]

01:14:10   two pieces don't sit flat there's like a [TS]

01:14:11   gap between them they only um I don't [TS]

01:14:15   know that would bother me a little bit [TS]

01:14:17   but with the push design one you can see [TS]

01:14:20   though that both halves of the when it's [TS]

01:14:22   in laptop mode both halves are about the [TS]

01:14:24   same thickness the base is about as [TS]

01:14:26   thick as the display so it's a really [TS]

01:14:29   thick tablet uh as compared to an iPad [TS]

01:14:32   like to me that design and it you know [TS]

01:14:36   it it's never going to be the best [TS]

01:14:39   laptop design and never going to be the [TS]

01:14:41   best tablet design but maybe if they're [TS]

01:14:44   right and I'm wrong maybe you know [TS]

01:14:47   optimizing for the middle is a good idea [TS]

01:14:51   but I can't help but think though that I [TS]

01:14:53   would always much rather have ideal [TS]

01:14:56   laptop design or an ideal tablet design [TS]

01:15:01   that can be put into a laptop that's [TS]

01:15:03   maybe not as nice one in laptop mode as [TS]

01:15:05   this you know the dual design but at [TS]

01:15:09   least when I'm using it in one way it's [TS]

01:15:11   as good as it can be yeah i would rather [TS]

01:15:14   carry two devices and have each device [TS]

01:15:16   be the best it possibly can be at that [TS]

01:15:20   specific task then try and carry [TS]

01:15:22   something that does all of those things [TS]

01:15:24   like i don't need a Swiss Army knife for [TS]

01:15:27   my electronics I need smart you know [TS]

01:15:30   dedicated electronics right and there's [TS]

01:15:33   just some weird context switching that I [TS]

01:15:35   don't think I would ever get used to [TS]

01:15:36   their where you're using a lower powered [TS]

01:15:39   processor when you're in tablet mode and [TS]

01:15:43   like one of the big trade-offs with [TS]

01:15:44   tablet mode is this porsche design thing [TS]

01:15:46   is only advertised is getting three [TS]

01:15:48   hours of battery life when separated oh [TS]

01:15:50   yeah well it's the same problem with the [TS]

01:15:53   surface book as well where it just [TS]

01:15:55   doesn't have the tablet does not have [TS]

01:15:57   great battery life at all right it's [TS]

01:16:00   there's just so many trade-offs involved [TS]

01:16:02   it's so a middling product both ways and [TS]

01:16:04   yeah I do see them I mean and and part [TS]

01:16:09   of this uh just a friend made the I mean [TS]

01:16:12   you know it's one anecdote but I you [TS]

01:16:14   know it meshes sort of would I see butts [TS]

01:16:16   a friend was in a coffee shop up [TS]

01:16:17   recently and counted like you know a lot [TS]

01:16:20   of people doing work or seemingly doing [TS]

01:16:24   work and it was like nine macbooks of [TS]

01:16:27   various ages like 1 regular windows [TS]

01:16:32   notebook and to like surface books and [TS]

01:16:36   no iPads nobody using an iPad at you [TS]

01:16:40   know at all and I could so I can see why [TS]

01:16:46   some people buy them and I think that [TS]

01:16:49   like you know I know who knows what [TS]

01:16:50   these people are doing but if it's like [TS]

01:16:51   university students or something like [TS]

01:16:53   that's probably a lot of writing it's [TS]

01:16:54   like I said I think if you're doing a [TS]

01:16:55   lot of writing it makes sense to be [TS]

01:16:56   doing it on a macbook and that you know [TS]

01:17:00   max are more popular for that sort of [TS]

01:17:01   thing mm-hmm but I don't know I can see [TS]

01:17:05   why Apple isn't going that way yeah and [TS]

01:17:08   I I don't think Apple would go that way [TS]

01:17:11   unless they found the perfect way to [TS]

01:17:13   blend it right you know we didn't get we [TS]

01:17:15   didn't get the iphone before it was [TS]

01:17:17   ready uh just because they wanted to [TS]

01:17:19   cram well unless you count the motorola [TS]

01:17:21   rokr if you don't really we didn't get a [TS]

01:17:24   product that was like let's turn the [TS]

01:17:27   ipod and I and the mobile phone and the [TS]

01:17:30   breakthrough internet communications [TS]

01:17:32   device into one thing and have it be [TS]

01:17:34   half-assed and not great like if they're [TS]

01:17:36   going to do it they're gonna do it well [TS]

01:17:38   otherwise they're just not going to do [TS]

01:17:39   it it's going to sit in some development [TS]

01:17:41   lab somewhere and never exist right but [TS]

01:17:44   it just doesn't make sense to me for [TS]

01:17:45   either device in [TS]

01:17:46   not that it doesn't make sense i see why [TS]

01:17:48   they came to that middling just you know [TS]

01:17:51   well we've got a little bit of battery [TS]

01:17:53   in this top part that you can take off [TS]

01:17:54   but most of the battery is in the base [TS]

01:17:55   and stuff like that I it makes more [TS]

01:17:59   sense to me to do it the ipad way where [TS]

01:18:01   the ipad is the computer and the [TS]

01:18:03   keyboard is just a dumb keyboard mm-hmm [TS]

01:18:05   the keyboard is easy and low power and [TS]

01:18:08   just works when it needs to work and [TS]

01:18:10   doesn't work when it doesn't and i feel [TS]

01:18:13   like there's some kind of win that apple [TS]

01:18:15   and or a third party but probably apple [TS]

01:18:17   because i think it would require [TS]

01:18:18   something even better better smart [TS]

01:18:20   connector on the ipad but i feel like [TS]

01:18:23   there's there's got to be some way to [TS]

01:18:25   make the hinge better you know and just [TS]

01:18:28   make this make the take it from here it [TS]

01:18:32   is closed coming out of my backpack to [TS]

01:18:34   set up in front of me on this table is a [TS]

01:18:37   laptop it's got to be a way to make that [TS]

01:18:39   better i think yeah the the logitech [TS]

01:18:42   create is pretty good except for the [TS]

01:18:45   part where it's only one position and if [TS]

01:18:47   it was like if the logitech create they [TS]

01:18:49   could find a way to build a smart [TS]

01:18:50   connector that hinged right and didn't [TS]

01:18:53   immediately disconnect when you moved a [TS]

01:18:55   lot moved it like a little bit backwards [TS]

01:18:57   or a little bit for words like they [TS]

01:18:58   found a way to make a logitech create [TS]

01:19:00   that had a hinged backing but still [TS]

01:19:03   connected via the smart connector that [TS]

01:19:05   would be the that would be the ultimate [TS]

01:19:07   convertible if you really wanted a [TS]

01:19:09   convertible tablet like you didn't need [TS]

01:19:10   a laptop to do hardcore writing or or [TS]

01:19:13   multitasking on and you just want to do [TS]

01:19:15   switch to ipad like that's what you'd [TS]

01:19:17   want cuz that to me is a perfect example [TS]

01:19:19   of one of the ways that I it's why I've [TS]

01:19:21   for me for me obviously I mean I'm you [TS]

01:19:24   know what I'm other than the podcast my [TS]

01:19:28   work is writing and so for me I what I [TS]

01:19:33   do is work and you know ignoring email [TS]

01:19:35   but if I decide not not to ignore my [TS]

01:19:37   writing there to the laptop form factor [TS]

01:19:41   is so much more conducive to my you know [TS]

01:19:45   it's so much nicer for me for my work [TS]

01:19:46   I'm not denying that it's the other way [TS]

01:19:48   around for other people but it is but [TS]

01:19:50   one of those things that's so nice [TS]

01:19:51   especially if I'm away not at my regular [TS]

01:19:54   desk where everything is already set up [TS]

01:19:55   just so is that I can adjust the screen [TS]

01:19:58   infinitely [TS]

01:19:59   right and so if there's a weird light [TS]

01:20:01   that's giving me a glare or whatever or [TS]

01:20:03   I'm sitting with a different posture or [TS]

01:20:06   it's a weird height table or chair you [TS]

01:20:09   could just sit there and twist it you [TS]

01:20:11   know and get it perfect and with the [TS]

01:20:13   exact iPads solutions you can't no not [TS]

01:20:17   unless you want to keep it flat on the [TS]

01:20:18   table and work on the virtual keyboard [TS]

01:20:22   which sounds terrible well and again [TS]

01:20:24   though there's no configuration error [TS]

01:20:25   flatten the tables flat in the table [TS]

01:20:26   yeah well I mean you do flat on a table [TS]

01:20:28   and then you have an adjustable stand [TS]

01:20:30   like I'm using an adjustable stand right [TS]

01:20:31   now from elevation lab data like a [TS]

01:20:34   drafting stand that just multiple levels [TS]

01:20:37   right but that's still not a great [TS]

01:20:38   configuration because then you have to [TS]

01:20:40   fiddle and it's it's not as easy as the [TS]

01:20:42   laptop just like BAM open done right [TS]

01:20:45   ready to ready right so anyway that's my [TS]

01:20:48   rant on form factors all right let me [TS]

01:20:50   take a break here and take our third [TS]

01:20:51   sponsored our good friends what a great [TS]

01:20:53   company I love these guys Backblaze [TS]

01:20:55   Backblaze offers unlimited native backup [TS]

01:20:58   for the mac and for pc no credit card [TS]

01:21:03   required to get started you get a no [TS]

01:21:04   risk free 15-day trial at Backblaze calm [TS]

01:21:07   / daring fireball you just go there [TS]

01:21:09   download the software put it on your Mac [TS]

01:21:12   don't mean you have to put a credit card [TS]

01:21:14   in and just let it start running and [TS]

01:21:16   what it'll do is it'll back up [TS]

01:21:18   everything on your computer to their [TS]

01:21:21   cloud-based storage everything there's [TS]

01:21:23   no limit they don't charge like by the [TS]

01:21:25   terabyte well you get one terabyte for [TS]

01:21:27   this and more no everything on your Mac [TS]

01:21:29   five dollars per computer per month [TS]

01:21:32   that's it and you get it unlimited unthe [TS]

01:21:36   Ronald offsite backup you have 15 days [TS]

01:21:38   to try it out see for yourself and when [TS]

01:21:39   it's over you're going to say well this [TS]

01:21:41   is crazy this is a great deal of course [TS]

01:21:43   I'm going to pay for it because now [TS]

01:21:44   everything i have is backed up and I [TS]

01:21:46   you'll have the peace of mind of knowing [TS]

01:21:48   that you have a backup that is not at [TS]

01:21:51   your desk where any sort of catastrophe [TS]

01:21:54   that happens in your house could wreck [TS]

01:21:56   your data right of water damage [TS]

01:21:59   roof leak something like that ruins your [TS]

01:22:01   computer ruins your backup drive now [TS]

01:22:04   your backup isn't isn't worthwhile what [TS]

01:22:06   if somebody comes in and steals your [TS]

01:22:07   stuff that's terrible hope it doesn't [TS]

01:22:09   happen to you but if you have an [TS]

01:22:11   off-site backup you've got that extra [TS]

01:22:12   protection there's no gimmicks no [TS]

01:22:15   additional charges it's just five bucks [TS]

01:22:18   per computer per month for unlimited on [TS]

01:22:21   throttled off-site backup I have used it [TS]

01:22:23   personally for years I would recommend [TS]

01:22:25   it I would recommend it regardless if [TS]

01:22:29   they were a sponsor but they are a [TS]

01:22:30   sponsor here's where you go Backblaze [TS]

01:22:33   calm / daring fireball and you get a 15 [TS]

01:22:37   for a 15 day free trial only have the [TS]

01:22:43   thing I had in my notes for the show [TS]

01:22:44   well I could maybe talk about uber later [TS]

01:22:46   little but there was a story this week [TS]

01:22:49   in a Wall Street Journal that came out [TS]

01:22:51   that got a lot of publicity where they [TS]

01:22:54   wasn't a hundred percent clearly written [TS]

01:22:57   but it the way it was written could best [TS]

01:23:00   be interpreted that the iphone this [TS]

01:23:04   year's iPhone the fancied rumored new [TS]

01:23:08   iphone with the ola curved OLED screen [TS]

01:23:10   was going to switch from the lightning [TS]

01:23:13   adapter to a USBC port oh not another [TS]

01:23:17   cable switch oh no they said Apple this [TS]

01:23:20   is from the story by uh Takashi [TS]

01:23:24   mochizuki for The Wall Street Journal [TS]

01:23:27   this is there's their sources familiar [TS]

01:23:30   with their plans they said Apple would [TS]

01:23:32   introduce other updates including a USBC [TS]

01:23:34   port for the power cord and other [TS]

01:23:36   peripheral devices instead of the [TS]

01:23:38   company's original lightning connector [TS]

01:23:41   these models would also do away with the [TS]

01:23:43   physical home button they said these [TS]

01:23:45   updates would give the iPhone features [TS]

01:23:47   already available on other smartphones [TS]

01:23:49   um I would just say with that last [TS]

01:23:53   sentence that no other smartphone has a [TS]

01:23:55   lightning connector so if they kept the [TS]

01:23:56   Lightning connector they'd have a [TS]

01:23:57   feature that's not available on this [TS]

01:24:03   seems weird that seemed weird to me and [TS]

01:24:05   my guess and again I nobody told me too [TS]

01:24:08   damn tight on any little birdies but my [TS]

01:24:09   guess is if there's some kind of supply [TS]

01:24:12   chain thing [TS]

01:24:12   that this reporter got it's that they're [TS]

01:24:15   going to switch to it I think the ipad [TS]

01:24:18   pro works like this already weird it [TS]

01:24:20   it's a USBC power brick and you plug USB [TS]

01:24:23   see into the power brick and then it [TS]

01:24:26   goes to lightning on the other end for [TS]

01:24:28   plugging into the device yep and you get [TS]

01:24:31   what 29 watts and yes supercharged right [TS]

01:24:35   now I don't know if the iphone is going [TS]

01:24:36   to ship with the 29 watt charger [TS]

01:24:37   probably not probably not but it could [TS]

01:24:41   ship with a higher wattage charger that [TS]

01:24:44   charges more quickly and does USB 3 data [TS]

01:24:50   speeds if you need that although I kind [TS]

01:24:52   of feel like data speeds over anything [TS]

01:24:55   other than the network are sort of oh [TS]

01:24:57   but you know there's some professional [TS]

01:25:01   context like for video or filmers you [TS]

01:25:03   know and photography and stuff like that [TS]

01:25:05   where you might want to you know that [TS]

01:25:07   that extra speed could be useful in an [TS]

01:25:09   iphone I don't know but yeah but the [TS]

01:25:13   charging speed is the big one if you can [TS]

01:25:14   get a if you can charge faster that's [TS]

01:25:16   better charging faster is better the [TS]

01:25:19   other reason why it would be good for [TS]

01:25:21   you know for photographers especially [TS]

01:25:24   now that Apple has allowed you to use [TS]

01:25:27   the the USB connector with the iphone to [TS]

01:25:31   with photos you can offload your raw [TS]

01:25:35   images direct to your you know 128 gig [TS]

01:25:38   iphone it rather than having to carry [TS]

01:25:41   around an ipad pro if you want to do [TS]

01:25:43   some just quick you know quick proofing [TS]

01:25:46   or if you want to post something to [TS]

01:25:47   social media very quickly well you're in [TS]

01:25:49   the midst of something like a live apple [TS]

01:25:52   event or something like that yeah [TS]

01:25:53   exactly um yeah but at I it just did not [TS]

01:26:00   ring true to me because i do not think [TS]

01:26:01   Apple as I just don't think they're ever [TS]

01:26:04   going to ship iOS devices with USB [TS]

01:26:07   seaports I know they could I know [TS]

01:26:08   there's some people who are sort of [TS]

01:26:10   hoping that they do because it would it [TS]

01:26:13   would simplify the universe in some ways [TS]

01:26:14   like where everybody's phone everybody's [TS]

01:26:17   phone bought within the last ex months [TS]

01:26:20   or years can now use the same chargers [TS]

01:26:22   but I don't think it makes sense from [TS]

01:26:25   Apple's [TS]

01:26:26   perspective and yeah are plenty of like [TS]

01:26:29   the sort of people who are wishing for [TS]

01:26:33   that are enlarged III think largely sort [TS]

01:26:37   of the nerdy type people who have you [TS]

01:26:39   know android and iOS devices around the [TS]

01:26:42   house and I think there's untold tens of [TS]

01:26:46   millions of people who just already have [TS]

01:26:48   an iphone and other people who they live [TS]

01:26:51   in the house have iphones and when they [TS]

01:26:54   buy a new iphone it would be nice if [TS]

01:26:55   they could just keep using the same [TS]

01:26:57   lightning ports that are already around [TS]

01:26:58   out yeah i don't want to have to switch [TS]

01:27:02   my port right and from those people's [TS]

01:27:04   perspectives that switch from 30-pin to [TS]

01:27:06   lightning just happened yes exactly [TS]

01:27:09   despite it being what four years ago it [TS]

01:27:11   was months it was just a few weeks ago [TS]

01:27:13   sorry hahaha it's still so fresh I still [TS]

01:27:16   have 30 pin connectors in my home right [TS]

01:27:18   and I don't think Apple I think I don't [TS]

01:27:21   think Apple was the least bit surprised [TS]

01:27:22   by the people who were upset by that [TS]

01:27:25   change but I also I us and I don't think [TS]

01:27:28   it gave him any pause but i do think [TS]

01:27:30   they're fully aware of gee you know it [TS]

01:27:35   would be worse to do it again yes the [TS]

01:27:38   nonsense the nonsense could potentially [TS]

01:27:40   be terrible oh yeah when you you sent [TS]

01:27:45   that you wanted to talk about this this [TS]

01:27:47   definitely gave me and Renee pause when [TS]

01:27:50   we first saw it as well because it's you [TS]

01:27:53   know we've seen stuff going on in the UK [TS]

01:27:55   and in Europe where you know Apple has [TS]

01:27:57   to ship adapters in the box to make sure [TS]

01:27:59   that everything's standardized with with [TS]

01:28:01   the EU Commission on charging devices [TS]

01:28:04   and making it easy for everybody but by [TS]

01:28:07   and large it's just I don't it doesn't [TS]

01:28:11   make sense to me to swap out the [TS]

01:28:13   Lightning port when the Lightning port [TS]

01:28:15   still does proprietary things that Apple [TS]

01:28:18   wants it to you know they swap out from [TS]

01:28:20   lightning to USB see I guess you could [TS]

01:28:23   still do made for iphone USBC devices [TS]

01:28:27   but I don't know how that licensing [TS]

01:28:29   would work in there on top of that also [TS]

01:28:31   licensing USBC for a port I don't know [TS]

01:28:34   if that increases their you know their [TS]

01:28:36   component costs in terms of using a [TS]

01:28:39   developed [TS]

01:28:40   like that or whether they're just paying [TS]

01:28:41   a flat fee to use USB in general from [TS]

01:28:45   the cut for them from the consortium I'm [TS]

01:28:47   not really sure the the [TS]

01:28:49   behind-the-scenes aspect in that what I [TS]

01:28:51   do know is we're eventually going to [TS]

01:28:54   have to have us bc on one end because [TS]

01:28:57   that is where the computers are going [TS]

01:28:59   and from that aspect the rumor that us [TS]

01:29:03   bc will be involved in a capacity like [TS]

01:29:07   you said as a charging capacity on the [TS]

01:29:09   other end of that cord that makes sense [TS]

01:29:11   to me as like encourage consumers to to [TS]

01:29:15   hurry it up with the switching yeah I [TS]

01:29:18   there's other things that Apple can do [TS]

01:29:21   with lightning that people I mean and [TS]

01:29:22   again let's just get it out of the way [TS]

01:29:24   there is a very selfish they get the [TS]

01:29:26   made for iphone licensing thing makes [TS]

01:29:29   the company money and gives them control [TS]

01:29:31   and limits what other companies can do [TS]

01:29:34   with iPhone peripherals and that's just [TS]

01:29:36   in Apple's own selfish interest to [TS]

01:29:39   maintain that the angle that's good for [TS]

01:29:44   iphone users is really just it's that [TS]

01:29:47   mass market look you've already got [TS]

01:29:49   these cords all over your house and you [TS]

01:29:52   can just keep using them for years to [TS]

01:29:53   come but there's a little things to like [TS]

01:29:59   the fact that because lightning is [TS]

01:30:01   completely apple's proprietary thing [TS]

01:30:02   they can change it in software and a big [TS]

01:30:06   part of lightnings design is that it's [TS]

01:30:08   changeable in software so for example [TS]

01:30:09   that's why the lightning headphones that [TS]

01:30:13   they started shipping last year required [TS]

01:30:15   you to update to iOS 10 like if you plug [TS]

01:30:18   them into an iOS 9 device you got an [TS]

01:30:20   error message that said you have to [TS]

01:30:21   update this device to iowa's tend to use [TS]

01:30:23   this peripheral because it was a [TS]

01:30:25   software change that enabled them to [TS]

01:30:26   work mm-hmm and they can't do that if [TS]

01:30:30   they switch to an industry proprietary I [TS]

01:30:32   mean maybe there's a way to do [TS]

01:30:33   proprietary stuff over the standard but [TS]

01:30:36   I don't think it's as easy you know no [TS]

01:30:38   so I think that the change and and it [TS]

01:30:43   surprised me which people piped up on [TS]

01:30:45   Twitter and you seem to think that this [TS]

01:30:47   was reasonable and again it's not the [TS]

01:30:49   most ridiculous thing in the world like [TS]

01:30:51   if they if it turns out that this is [TS]

01:30:53   true [TS]

01:30:53   if I'm wrong if the end they're worth [TS]

01:30:56   like ming-chi kuo of KGI the famed super [TS]

01:31:01   well sourced analyst over there it came [TS]

01:31:03   out with a report like a day or two [TS]

01:31:04   after the Wall Street Journal report not [TS]

01:31:06   calling him out by name but coming about [TS]

01:31:09   as close as he could because the entire [TS]

01:31:10   report was more or less no it's custard [TS]

01:31:12   these new phones are still going to have [TS]

01:31:13   lightning but they might have us bc on [TS]

01:31:17   the power brick side and he even talked [TS]

01:31:19   about fast charging and stuff like that [TS]

01:31:21   so you know if he's wrong if i'm wrong [TS]

01:31:24   and they really do ship a new iphone in [TS]

01:31:27   September and as us bc i wouldn't find [TS]

01:31:29   it shocking i would just find it mildly [TS]

01:31:32   surprising it's yet to play devil's [TS]

01:31:35   advocate here let's say that apple [TS]

01:31:38   decides to go the USBC route because it [TS]

01:31:40   makes more sense to them from a I don't [TS]

01:31:43   know consortium perspective maybe [TS]

01:31:44   they're getting pressured in the EU [TS]

01:31:46   maybe it just makes more sense as they [TS]

01:31:49   continue to expand globally to just have [TS]

01:31:51   one universal port and not have to worry [TS]

01:31:53   about adapters and uncles or anything [TS]

01:31:55   like that um I could see them switching [TS]

01:31:59   and just being like hey guys this is the [TS]

01:32:01   new normal you know our MacBook Pros [TS]

01:32:04   have USBC now now your iphones have USBC [TS]

01:32:07   soon your you know the new imacs are [TS]

01:32:09   going to have us bc and this is our new [TS]

01:32:12   standard charging port however i just [TS]

01:32:17   don't think it's good business sense for [TS]

01:32:19   the company because of all the reasons [TS]

01:32:21   that we've mentioned before it just it [TS]

01:32:24   makes more sense for them to have [TS]

01:32:25   control but and also i mean if you look [TS]

01:32:30   at the rest of their peripherals [TS]

01:32:32   including the lightning based headphones [TS]

01:32:34   that if you know they change the [TS]

01:32:36   Lightning port it'll only be there for a [TS]

01:32:38   year they just released brand new you [TS]

01:32:41   know the air pods and the beats ex you [TS]

01:32:46   know have lightning connectors and then [TS]

01:32:48   the older beats headphones you know the [TS]

01:32:50   solo and the the power beats both still [TS]

01:32:53   charge via mini USB or micro USB so it's [TS]

01:32:58   one of those things where if if USBC [TS]

01:33:00   standardization was coming down the [TS]

01:33:02   pipeline as this is going to be our [TS]

01:33:04   charging port now and forever you know [TS]

01:33:06   so help us God [TS]

01:33:07   you'd think that they would start it [TS]

01:33:09   with the air pots and the beat Saxe and [TS]

01:33:14   all of their accessories that start to [TS]

01:33:15   have these things yeah the fact that all [TS]

01:33:17   the Apple pencils would essentially be [TS]

01:33:19   be made useless down the line because [TS]

01:33:21   they use lightning as well and could you [TS]

01:33:24   charge an Apple pencil via USB see [TS]

01:33:25   that's a good question you know third [TS]

01:33:28   third it's it's a if I yeah the the [TS]

01:33:34   rumor makes my head hurt honestly yeah i [TS]

01:33:37   think that the analogy to the headphone [TS]

01:33:42   port is is exactly right except that you [TS]

01:33:48   should ignore the fact I that for now [TS]

01:33:51   they're shipping the iphones without a [TS]

01:33:54   headphone port with lightning headphones [TS]

01:33:58   the Lightning headphones are a stopgap [TS]

01:34:00   and yeah the real transition is to [TS]

01:34:03   wireless and it's just the fact that [TS]

01:34:05   there at this point it costs you know [TS]

01:34:07   150 bucks or so for them to sell the [TS]

01:34:11   wireless ones that meet their you know [TS]

01:34:13   that are as good as they think the [TS]

01:34:14   experience should be I think we just [TS]

01:34:16   have to wait a few years for the price [TS]

01:34:18   of those to come down but that in [TS]

01:34:19   hindsight five six seven years ago we [TS]

01:34:22   look back and we don't really remember [TS]

01:34:24   the Lightning headphones error so much [TS]

01:34:26   oui oui vate in our memories it'll be we [TS]

01:34:29   used to plug in headphones via the 100 [TS]

01:34:32   year old headphone jack and now we use [TS]

01:34:35   wireless headphones yeah no one's going [TS]

01:34:37   to really think about it and I think [TS]

01:34:39   that's exactly what's going to happen [TS]

01:34:40   with charging is that lightning is the [TS]

01:34:43   charging port for all of these devices [TS]

01:34:45   except for max until some sort of no [TS]

01:34:52   port charging is the standard by which i [TS]

01:34:56   mean i have this whole rant that I've [TS]

01:34:58   been meaning to go on about calling [TS]

01:34:59   conductive or inductive charging [TS]

01:35:02   whatever it is but when you have to [TS]

01:35:03   still be in physical contact calling [TS]

01:35:05   that wireless charging because that's [TS]

01:35:06   not work that's not wireless no it's [TS]

01:35:08   just it's well i mean it's it's not [TS]

01:35:11   wireless from the phone to the pad but [TS]

01:35:14   there's still water still wired yeah [TS]

01:35:15   like an apple is actually pretty careful [TS]

01:35:18   about it like Apple does not describe [TS]

01:35:19   the Apple watch [TS]

01:35:20   having wireless charging because it [TS]

01:35:22   doesn't it it's inductive charging right [TS]

01:35:25   so I don't know where we're going with [TS]

01:35:27   that I don't know if like the next step [TS]

01:35:30   is going to be inductive charging for [TS]

01:35:31   these devices or if it'll be a true [TS]

01:35:33   wireless thing where it doesn't actually [TS]

01:35:34   have to be in physical contact and you [TS]

01:35:36   can just have it in general proximity [TS]

01:35:38   and it'll magically shoot power over the [TS]

01:35:41   air mm-hmm not make us full of cancer [TS]

01:35:44   yeah I think that's the big problem [TS]

01:35:47   there right now okay well you know I [TS]

01:35:49   mean Wi-Fi hasn't killed us yet so it's [TS]

01:35:51   true i'm off to it just sounds weird 20 [TS]

01:35:54   years and counting right it's like when [TS]

01:35:56   we first started using Wi-Fi really [TS]

01:35:58   weirded me out it's like this seems like [TS]

01:36:00   it should be impossible this I mean and [TS]

01:36:02   then you just think like these razors [TS]

01:36:04   these waves are shooting through me [TS]

01:36:06   right now my body is full of Gigaba and [TS]

01:36:09   let's not even talk about cell phones [TS]

01:36:11   all these memes inside me right but you [TS]

01:36:15   know I until we can do that until they [TS]

01:36:17   can get their their Apple Gibbs wants to [TS]

01:36:20   get rid of ports not replace ports with [TS]

01:36:22   one from another a green and they don't [TS]

01:36:25   give two craps about proprietary over or [TS]

01:36:29   they get they give a crap but they're [TS]

01:36:30   you know they see proprietary is a [TS]

01:36:32   strength not as a weakness correct and I [TS]

01:36:36   do think it's super telling that the air [TS]

01:36:39   pods have a lightning adapter mm-hmm [TS]

01:36:43   they could they could have had us bc [TS]

01:36:46   they absolutely could have shipped with [TS]

01:36:47   the USBC charging brick and they chose [TS]

01:36:49   not to all right and it would have been [TS]

01:36:50   a big towel I think mm-hmm I still think [TS]

01:36:58   it's weird it is it's funny I understand [TS]

01:37:01   why the pencil works the way that it [TS]

01:37:02   does and in terms of having a male [TS]

01:37:04   lightning instead of a female lightning [TS]

01:37:08   so that it it's less convenient way if [TS]

01:37:13   you just want to plug your pencil into [TS]

01:37:14   something you already have laying around [TS]

01:37:15   your house but it's more importantly [TS]

01:37:18   it's whenever you want to use a pencil [TS]

01:37:20   you must have an ipad pro nearby to use [TS]

01:37:23   it on and if the pencil is out you can [TS]

01:37:26   just plug it into the ipad for 30 [TS]

01:37:28   seconds and get a usable charge out of [TS]

01:37:29   it [TS]

01:37:30   it's not but it literally it looks silly [TS]

01:37:33   it's not elegant but it's a very its [TS]

01:37:36   practicality winning out over elegance [TS]

01:37:41   where's the air laws in comparison are [TS]

01:37:43   one of the most it's it's just I can't [TS]

01:37:47   stop raving about how I love every [TS]

01:37:49   single aspect of it including the fact [TS]

01:37:51   that to charge it you can just plug it [TS]

01:37:52   into any iphone charger you have laying [TS]

01:37:54   around for a couple of minutes once a [TS]

01:37:56   week or so exactly you don't have to [TS]

01:37:58   worry about it and if your buds ever go [TS]

01:38:00   dark you just pop them in the case and [TS]

01:38:02   it's it's very seamless honestly can I [TS]

01:38:06   sell you my biggest wish for the rumored [TS]

01:38:09   iPads yes i want i want wireless [TS]

01:38:13   charging real wireless charging area [TS]

01:38:15   charging for the pencil built into this [TS]

01:38:19   mythical 10-point inch at my 5-inch to [TS]

01:38:21   ipad right where if you're in bluetooth [TS]

01:38:23   proximity you're going to charge it [TS]

01:38:26   which I just think would be amazing [TS]

01:38:28   because then that way the pencil never [TS]

01:38:30   dies it just it charges it whenever you [TS]

01:38:34   know it's nearby and if you have to make [TS]

01:38:36   contact then maybe they figure out some [TS]

01:38:38   way to like induct a charge through the [TS]

01:38:42   through the display right where whenever [TS]

01:38:45   you're drawing on it it's actually [TS]

01:38:46   sending a tiny charge through the tip [TS]

01:38:48   into the pencil I don't I know nothing [TS]

01:38:50   about engineering so all this may sound [TS]

01:38:53   like crazy talk and it probably is but [TS]

01:38:55   that is my dream self on ipad is [TS]

01:38:58   impossible for them to announce that [TS]

01:39:00   right now in March 2017 i I don't know [TS]

01:39:03   either I don't know I have no idea if it [TS]

01:39:05   is boy that would be a huge selling [TS]

01:39:07   point and I can't I would imagine that [TS]

01:39:09   that's the sort of thing that would get [TS]

01:39:10   people who bought a pencil a year ago to [TS]

01:39:12   buy a new one oh yeah in a heartbeat and [TS]

01:39:15   a new iPad because you need a new iPad [TS]

01:39:17   it because it gets rid of the awkward [TS]

01:39:19   lightning it gets through that right so [TS]

01:39:23   let's presume in it and then I think [TS]

01:39:24   they could get rid of the cap yeah in [TS]

01:39:27   the naked it you could add a racer if [TS]

01:39:29   you really wanted the cap is a huge you [TS]

01:39:31   know if people complain about the cap [TS]

01:39:33   because the cap is easily lost mm-hmm so [TS]

01:39:35   you get rid of the cap it's entirely [TS]

01:39:37   self-contained so then it's it's that's [TS]

01:39:40   super Apple like right no input no right [TS]

01:39:42   but [TS]

01:39:43   and it really is i was just talking with [TS]

01:39:45   a friend the other day about how like [TS]

01:39:46   his biggest gripe with the i'll tell you [TS]

01:39:49   it is ben thompson this mysterious [TS]

01:39:53   sources but he loves a pencil but he [TS]

01:39:55   doesn't use it all the time but if it's [TS]

01:40:00   in range of your ipad when your iPad's [TS]

01:40:02   on there they communicate with each [TS]

01:40:05   other so that it's ready for you to use [TS]

01:40:06   but it's always a range of his ipad when [TS]

01:40:09   his ipad is on because he's taking it [TS]

01:40:10   out of the same bag right he's got a bad [TS]

01:40:12   exactly he's got a bag that he keeps his [TS]

01:40:14   pencil and his ipad in and so even when [TS]

01:40:16   he's not using the pencil and just [TS]

01:40:18   reading on the ipad it's slowly draining [TS]

01:40:22   the pencil because it has a [TS]

01:40:23   communication and then when he does go [TS]

01:40:24   to use the pencil it's always dead yeah [TS]

01:40:26   exactly the pencils always at five [TS]

01:40:28   percent because the pencil doesn't quite [TS]

01:40:30   understand the difference between i'm [TS]

01:40:32   sitting in your bag ready to be used and [TS]

01:40:35   i'm being drawn with actively and need [TS]

01:40:38   battery life right and the reason this [TS]

01:40:40   is mildly annoying as instead of like [TS]

01:40:42   infuriating is because it doesn't take [TS]

01:40:44   that long to give the pencil a usable [TS]

01:40:46   charge but still it happens every time [TS]

01:40:48   and if your idea illinois your idea [TS]

01:40:50   would solve this problem yeah well it's [TS]

01:40:52   it's a step further from what they [TS]

01:40:55   already do with smart connector right [TS]

01:40:57   where the smart connector to me feels [TS]

01:41:00   like this in between Earth stage because [TS]

01:41:02   it is solved the need for Bluetooth [TS]

01:41:04   keyboards at least the bluetooth [TS]

01:41:05   keyboards that the keywords that use a [TS]

01:41:07   smart connector it solved that need for [TS]

01:41:09   those keyboards to constantly be charged [TS]

01:41:11   separately it's just do I want to use a [TS]

01:41:14   keyboard with my ipad today cool I'm [TS]

01:41:17   just going to set it up and because of [TS]

01:41:19   the way that the smart connector [TS]

01:41:20   connects like hooks into the keyboard [TS]

01:41:22   it's good and if they figured out a way [TS]

01:41:24   to wirelessly charge devices then we [TS]

01:41:27   could have variable stand keywords to it [TS]

01:41:31   would be really cool that would be cool [TS]

01:41:33   and it's and it's definitely I think [TS]

01:41:35   it's the definite situation circling [TS]

01:41:36   back to what I said before where there's [TS]

01:41:39   an awful lot of people who only use [TS]

01:41:41   their iPad with a keyboard sometimes [TS]

01:41:43   because the whole point of why they're [TS]

01:41:46   using an iPad is they're often using the [TS]

01:41:48   iPad in these contexts where you either [TS]

01:41:50   don't want to keep word or don't need a [TS]

01:41:52   keyboard or you know it's just not that [TS]

01:41:54   important that you have a hardware [TS]

01:41:55   keyboard and you [TS]

01:41:56   do that do that do that do that and the [TS]

01:41:59   thing that's great about the the smart [TS]

01:42:00   connector is then when you do need a [TS]

01:42:02   keyboard you don't have to worry if it's [TS]

01:42:03   charged yeah exactly you just throw it [TS]

01:42:06   on use it and then put it away and then [TS]

01:42:08   you can forget about it for another [TS]

01:42:09   three months yeah yeah that's a great [TS]

01:42:12   idea i hope you're right i hope i'm [TS]

01:42:15   right to uh you want talk about uber [TS]

01:42:18   quickly yeah let's talk about over boy I [TS]

01:42:21   I don't know what to do I I feel like [TS]

01:42:23   I'm going to confess something gonna be [TS]

01:42:25   honest and straightforward um because I [TS]

01:42:30   don't feel I feel like that's the did [TS]

01:42:32   did I I feel guilty otherwise and I feel [TS]

01:42:35   guilty about what I'm about to say I'm [TS]

01:42:36   going to confess I i have not deleted [TS]

01:42:38   the uber app from my phone i also have [TS]

01:42:41   not deleted the / f from my phone [TS]

01:42:42   despite the fact that i think the [TS]

01:42:44   company is despicable we haven't used it [TS]

01:42:47   since then i have but i also haven't [TS]

01:42:49   deleted it I've used I have juice tue / [TS]

01:42:51   because there's the only one that can [TS]

01:42:54   get a black car in Philadelphia and the [TS]

01:42:57   black cars have SUVs and sometimes like [TS]

01:43:00   I went out to dinner with some friends [TS]

01:43:01   and we needed it we need to defeat five [TS]

01:43:04   adults in the car hmm so I still use it [TS]

01:43:09   and I justify it in my head as well I [TS]

01:43:12   know they're losing money on every ride [TS]

01:43:13   they give I'm robbing some poor [TS]

01:43:19   defenseless bc right but I feel terrible [TS]

01:43:22   about it and it would it's and I don't [TS]

01:43:25   know at some point it's it's you know I [TS]

01:43:28   don't know what I want is I want lift to [TS]

01:43:30   connect to these black card drivers [TS]

01:43:32   black card drivers I think would jump at [TS]

01:43:34   it yeah i mean i don't think at this [TS]

01:43:38   point anybody is like yes I love working [TS]

01:43:41   for uber I am proud to work maybe maybe [TS]

01:43:44   Travis what's-his-face well the drivers [TS]

01:43:47   are ya know but that's I'm saying I'm [TS]

01:43:50   like think the drivers are you know [TS]

01:43:53   looking for other options if they can [TS]

01:43:55   they still want to you know they want to [TS]

01:43:57   drive in the car sharing economy because [TS]

01:43:59   it's a good way right now to make money [TS]

01:44:00   at least until the bottom falls out but [TS]

01:44:03   I I don't think any of them is like yes [TS]

01:44:07   I feel so loyal to Oberon uber [TS]

01:44:09   stood right by me because the upper is [TS]

01:44:11   not really stood right by anybody [TS]

01:44:13   they've kind of been huge dicks there's [TS]

01:44:17   got to be a way and I know that and I [TS]

01:44:20   understand that my argument that I know [TS]

01:44:23   that they're losing money on every ride [TS]

01:44:24   that that's actually their plan and it's [TS]

01:44:26   you know that the basic idea it's not [TS]

01:44:29   really a secret is that they want to [TS]

01:44:31   monopolize the market and then once they [TS]

01:44:33   have the monopoly in a market they can [TS]

01:44:34   raise the rates to where it's profitable [TS]

01:44:36   um I'm not quite sure how they ever get [TS]

01:44:42   there because at the point where they [TS]

01:44:44   raised the rates I don't see how new [TS]

01:44:45   competitors don't pop up like I don't [TS]

01:44:47   see how they have a real path to to a [TS]

01:44:51   monopoly no because and their whole [TS]

01:44:55   argument is is they're destroying the [TS]

01:44:58   existing regulations it's not like [TS]

01:44:59   they're going to get new regulations put [TS]

01:45:01   in place that that say that in the city [TS]

01:45:02   of Philadelphia Bluebird is the only [TS]

01:45:04   ride-sharing app available yeah they're [TS]

01:45:06   not going to boot benefit uber they're [TS]

01:45:08   going to benefit all ride sharing [TS]

01:45:10   companies right well which you know 17 [TS]

01:45:13   might pop up I can see them getting to [TS]

01:45:16   monopoly status right by taking down the [TS]

01:45:18   cabs if the cabs don't form up and [TS]

01:45:20   create their own rival company which [TS]

01:45:22   some have already done I can see them [TS]

01:45:25   getting to that point but like you said [TS]

01:45:27   at the issue where they start having to [TS]

01:45:31   raise rates then it becomes okay well [TS]

01:45:34   who has the cheapest service it's a race [TS]

01:45:37   to the bottom a little bit and it [TS]

01:45:39   honestly depends on whether or not VCS [TS]

01:45:41   are willing to take that risk and be [TS]

01:45:43   like yeah I'm gonna fund this company [TS]

01:45:45   because uber it needs to be taken down [TS]

01:45:47   it's gotten too big too big you know to [TS]

01:45:49   to violent or does it turn into the [TS]

01:45:53   thing where the VCS are kind of like [TS]

01:45:54   well we're just not going to fund new [TS]

01:45:56   transportation center startups because [TS]

01:45:58   no one's figured out how to make them [TS]

01:45:59   profitable without price gouging [TS]

01:46:01   consumers I and I want it you know [TS]

01:46:05   there's so many things though is sort of [TS]

01:46:07   like Silicon Valley's version at the [TS]

01:46:09   Trump administration where there's like [TS]

01:46:10   it there's a new scandal every day or [TS]

01:46:13   even by three dollar you know it's like [TS]

01:46:14   you react like a daily list of the [TS]

01:46:17   scandals doesn't keep up with the fact [TS]

01:46:19   you know I mean like if you only paid [TS]

01:46:20   attention once a day it's like [TS]

01:46:23   like it we're recording this on Friday [TS]

01:46:25   March third like on Thursday March [TS]

01:46:27   second if you only paid attention at [TS]

01:46:28   noon the news was a president Trump says [TS]

01:46:32   attorney general Jeff session does not [TS]

01:46:34   need to recuse himself but by six [TS]

01:46:36   o'clock in the night he'd recused [TS]

01:46:37   himself it's a hint you have to check [TS]

01:46:39   every three hours to see what's going on [TS]

01:46:41   and it's the same with uber but like [TS]

01:46:44   like there was a thing this week where [TS]

01:46:45   an uber driver had taped a yeah he [TS]

01:46:47   recognized that he had Travis kalanick [TS]

01:46:49   as his passenger in a car and he [TS]

01:46:52   videotaped it uh and kallik had said [TS]

01:46:55   some somewhat embarrassing things to the [TS]

01:46:57   driver somewhat yeah but I I didn't I [TS]

01:47:01   didn't think it was outrageous it you [TS]

01:47:03   know I mean and I'm vaguely I'm just hmm [TS]

01:47:06   I'm vaguely uncomfortable with the idea [TS]

01:47:08   that he taped them in the first place [TS]

01:47:09   and I don't think what he said was all [TS]

01:47:11   that outrageous it was a little rude but [TS]

01:47:13   it I thought the driver was sort of [TS]

01:47:15   nutty too yeah the problem is that [TS]

01:47:19   there's already the narrative right [TS]

01:47:21   there's already the narrative that he's [TS]

01:47:22   a jerk and a horrible person get him [TS]

01:47:25   caught on tape doing anything jerkish [TS]

01:47:27   yeah and it and it blows up even further [TS]

01:47:30   right exactly i think that serenity I [TS]

01:47:32   think that's exactly what happened where [TS]

01:47:33   it's like everybody knows that this [TS]

01:47:35   travis kalanick is is at least a bit of [TS]

01:47:37   a jerk and that he's been him and his [TS]

01:47:40   company in from caught doing really jerk [TS]

01:47:41   exceptionally jerky things lately and [TS]

01:47:43   you here and he secretly taped saying [TS]

01:47:47   something and what he said is at least [TS]

01:47:48   somewhere on the jerky spectrum and then [TS]

01:47:50   you just jump to the worst conclusion [TS]

01:47:51   whereas I think if I actually watch the [TS]

01:47:53   video and I was like this isn't that big [TS]

01:47:56   yeah it's not it's not that big and [TS]

01:47:59   speaking speaking of how it just seems [TS]

01:48:02   like a new over story pops up every day [TS]

01:48:04   literally while we're recording this the [TS]

01:48:08   verge Dateline 40 minutes ago it's a [TS]

01:48:11   game line though New York Times via the [TS]

01:48:15   verge via the New York Times reports [TS]

01:48:16   that uber has a secret worldwide program [TS]

01:48:19   called grave all to hide from government [TS]

01:48:21   employees looking to catch uber cars [TS]

01:48:23   operating in violation of local [TS]

01:48:25   regulations because this yeah I don't [TS]

01:48:32   even know what to say about this because [TS]

01:48:34   it's just it's [TS]

01:48:35   literally as we're saying hey uber just [TS]

01:48:40   keeps on getting caught doing really [TS]

01:48:42   horrible stuff now there's another I [TS]

01:48:45   don't know oh yeah like this is the this [TS]

01:48:48   sounds like something that is a mildly [TS]

01:48:51   shady company would it would go for be [TS]

01:48:53   like yeah let's run some software to [TS]

01:48:55   make sure you don't pick up passengers [TS]

01:48:57   who might be governed of employees [TS]

01:48:59   because we're breaking labor practices [TS]

01:49:01   in certain cities there's a there's a [TS]

01:49:03   whole lot to unpack there so it looks [TS]

01:49:05   like what they did is when they were [TS]

01:49:07   instead in municipalities where uber was [TS]

01:49:12   deemed to be contrary to the local [TS]

01:49:14   regulations uber would appoint somebody [TS]

01:49:16   to figure out where the regulators [TS]

01:49:19   offices were and then look for anybody [TS]

01:49:24   opening the uber app on a frequent basis [TS]

01:49:27   from those locations and then I guess [TS]

01:49:29   not not pick them up show fake cars it [TS]

01:49:34   also checked the credit card information [TS]

01:49:35   to see if the card was tied to a police [TS]

01:49:38   credit union Wow but unknown to mr. [TS]

01:49:42   England and other authorities I think [TS]

01:49:44   this was the guy from Portland some of [TS]

01:49:47   the digital cars they saw in the app did [TS]

01:49:49   not represent actual vehicles and the [TS]

01:49:51   uber drivers they were able to hail also [TS]

01:49:53   quickly cancelled that was because uber [TS]

01:49:54   had tagged mr. England and his [TS]

01:49:56   colleagues essentially gray balling them [TS]

01:49:58   as city officials based on data [TS]

01:49:59   collected from the app and in other ways [TS]

01:50:01   so yeah not a good company no not a not [TS]

01:50:06   having a great week as far as PR goes [TS]

01:50:08   but the thing that I wanted to bring up [TS]

01:50:11   was that among this you know avalanche [TS]

01:50:14   of these things some of the one story [TS]

01:50:16   that to me is the Sun to the planets of [TS]

01:50:21   of these these other scandals are a [TS]

01:50:23   series of planets but the one at the [TS]

01:50:25   center of it is Susan Fowler Righetti's [TS]

01:50:27   story of her year-long employee yeah [TS]

01:50:29   which to me is is different because I i [TS]

01:50:35   I've reread her entire piece like at [TS]

01:50:37   least three times it's extraordinarily [TS]

01:50:39   well written and I'm guessing that [TS]

01:50:42   you've noticed the ways that it's well [TS]

01:50:44   written because absolutely it's well [TS]

01:50:47   written on like three different levels [TS]

01:50:48   where [TS]

01:50:49   where she makes her case extremely well [TS]

01:50:52   she obviously had her wits about her for [TS]

01:50:54   the entire year that she worked right [TS]

01:50:56   from the beginning when it first she [TS]

01:50:58   first started to be harassed but she [TS]

01:51:00   documented it and she kept emails and [TS]

01:51:04   screenshots of chats uh and it's so [TS]

01:51:08   clear from her writing that she could [TS]

01:51:09   back it all up um yeah but also the tone [TS]

01:51:13   that she took in the article is it it [TS]

01:51:19   it's not necessary is not the right word [TS]

01:51:22   but it it was taken from a way that that [TS]

01:51:27   she couldn't be easily dismissed and and [TS]

01:51:31   it's the sort of tonal tap-dancing that [TS]

01:51:35   a woman has to take that a man doesn't [TS]

01:51:38   even have to think about yeah it was [TS]

01:51:41   written you're absolutely right in terms [TS]

01:51:45   of the I'm trying to think of the right [TS]

01:51:46   word here it was written in a very level [TS]

01:51:51   platform where she's basically like hear [TS]

01:51:53   all these accusations that I'm laying [TS]

01:51:56   out but I'm not laying them out in a way [TS]

01:51:58   that makes me sound especially angry [TS]

01:52:00   right or especially vindictive towards [TS]

01:52:03   the company right she was she basically [TS]

01:52:05   laid it out almost factually almost like [TS]

01:52:07   a lawyer would lay out here here are the [TS]

01:52:10   things that happened to me on this date [TS]

01:52:12   this happened on this date this happened [TS]

01:52:15   but not written so droll II that you [TS]

01:52:20   know you can't read between the lines [TS]

01:52:22   and actually get a good picture of [TS]

01:52:23   what's happening the Nate that specific [TS]

01:52:28   nature of the harassment that she [TS]

01:52:29   experienced is very specific to being a [TS]

01:52:35   woman in a largely male company where [TS]

01:52:39   male on female harassment is clearly [TS]

01:52:43   tolerated at an institutional level and [TS]

01:52:46   it so as you can't just say if the [TS]

01:52:48   tables were turned and it was reversed [TS]

01:52:49   because there's no such equivalent there [TS]

01:52:51   is no [TS]

01:52:53   there's no company in the world that's [TS]

01:52:55   like the uber for women where men at a [TS]

01:52:58   50 to 1 ratio as engineers get harassed [TS]

01:53:01   but if a man had suffered the moral [TS]

01:53:04   equivalent of of this wrongdoing at you [TS]

01:53:09   know in some of the other than sexual [TS]

01:53:11   harassment or some other way just but [TS]

01:53:13   just something that everybody would [TS]

01:53:14   agree was equally wrong on the moral [TS]

01:53:16   spectrum a man would document it in a [TS]

01:53:19   way where I don't think he would have to [TS]

01:53:20   even think about hiding his anger at [TS]

01:53:23   what had gone on and what was tolerated [TS]

01:53:25   whereas she did not hide but but like [TS]

01:53:30   tap dance between coming across as angry [TS]

01:53:33   and not crossing the line into acting [TS]

01:53:38   like it's a joke or it's not serious [TS]

01:53:40   yeah she had to pitch it very much as [TS]

01:53:44   you said between the Lions because of [TS]

01:53:48   retribution I mean we've all been [TS]

01:53:50   following the stories and the fact that [TS]

01:53:52   uber has gone you know potentially sent [TS]

01:53:55   lawyers after her this week and I don't [TS]

01:53:57   know you know the fact how factual that [TS]

01:53:59   is or where the where that stands right [TS]

01:54:01   now beyond her claims but the mere fact [TS]

01:54:04   that like she had to write this in such [TS]

01:54:06   a way because she was worried about [TS]

01:54:08   retribution from a company that arguably [TS]

01:54:11   she has a pretty darn good lawsuit [TS]

01:54:13   against to begin with on whereas as you [TS]

01:54:16   said a man could very easily just write [TS]

01:54:19   the angriest of angry medium Rantzen [TS]

01:54:23   just paid you know like this has [TS]

01:54:24   happened to me and how dare this company [TS]

01:54:26   and this is a disgusting you know [TS]

01:54:28   violation of human rights and and my [TS]

01:54:32   rights as a human like my rights and [TS]

01:54:34   personally and blah you know I can't [TS]

01:54:37   even write in that tone because it just [TS]

01:54:39   makes me want to vomit but it's yeah in [TS]

01:54:44   the end also honestly in comparison I [TS]

01:54:46   believe you you linked to a medium [TS]

01:54:49   article by one other woman who wrote [TS]

01:54:51   about her her experiences and hers were [TS]

01:54:54   also very chilling and very bothersome [TS]

01:54:56   but she wrote it in a much in a much [TS]

01:55:00   vaguer more not quite salacious style [TS]

01:55:03   but it was definitely written as more of [TS]

01:55:05   a story and [TS]

01:55:06   of a you know here's here's a peek into [TS]

01:55:09   my life whereas Susan Fowler's was very [TS]

01:55:12   much you know removed her emotionally [TS]

01:55:15   removed is it was written very [TS]

01:55:18   analytically and it you know there's it [TS]

01:55:21   the truth is that an angry woman is [TS]

01:55:24   going to be dismissed by X percent of [TS]

01:55:26   people who read her mostly men but also [TS]

01:55:28   some women you know it's there's a woman [TS]

01:55:32   who's angry in public is is gets a very [TS]

01:55:35   different reaction and it very different [TS]

01:55:37   adjectives are used to describe her [TS]

01:55:40   emotional state than a man with the [TS]

01:55:44   equivalent amount of anger and I'm you [TS]

01:55:46   know I I feel a certain about that [TS]

01:55:49   statement I also feel like even though [TS]

01:55:53   I'm certain of it and I'm incredibly [TS]

01:55:55   sympathetic to it I don't even feel I [TS]

01:55:57   feel like part of the reason that that's [TS]

01:55:59   the case is that uh you know I'm not in [TS]

01:56:02   a position to even judge it right like [TS]

01:56:04   it's yeah it like I can judge what what [TS]

01:56:09   they did to Susan Fowler but I'm not it [TS]

01:56:12   I feel like as a man especially you know [TS]

01:56:15   with every privilege you could possibly [TS]

01:56:16   possibly have in this country I'm not in [TS]

01:56:23   a perv I'm not in a position to judge [TS]

01:56:24   just how how how how widespread that [TS]

01:56:28   unfairness is in terms of how we see [TS]

01:56:32   deal with things like angry thank people [TS]

01:56:35   who are rightfully angry in a [TS]

01:56:37   professional context but yet she [TS]

01:56:39   obviously is very well very familiar [TS]

01:56:41   with it well you know you know the [TS]

01:56:45   verbal gymnastics that you need to [TS]

01:56:47   thread especially working in a company [TS]

01:56:49   like that you know she had a year of [TS]

01:56:51   experience having to dance through [TS]

01:56:54   clearly the insanity of the HR process [TS]

01:56:58   and her higher-ups um coming out of that [TS]

01:57:01   you know you're gonna know like the [TS]

01:57:04   second that you write a piece like that [TS]

01:57:05   unfortunately the second that a woman [TS]

01:57:07   writes a piece like that the first thing [TS]

01:57:10   that a certain subsection of the [TS]

01:57:11   internet is going to do is try and find [TS]

01:57:13   ways of proving that she's crazy or she [TS]

01:57:16   was arrested or that's [TS]

01:57:18   Mall aspect of it isn't true and [TS]

01:57:21   therefore the whole thing is in question [TS]

01:57:22   the whole thing is null and void exactly [TS]

01:57:24   oh she cheated on a test when she was in [TS]

01:57:27   the seventh grade so she's untrustworthy [TS]

01:57:28   you know or she claims this one thing [TS]

01:57:32   happened on the you know the first [TS]

01:57:34   monday of july 2015 because what that [TS]

01:57:36   was a federal holiday it was that was [TS]

01:57:38   Independence Day Boober was closed yeah [TS]

01:57:41   exactly it actually happened July third [TS]

01:57:43   right but she lied there for the entire [TS]

01:57:46   thing is called into question utley [TS]

01:57:49   there is a certain subsection of the [TS]

01:57:51   population that delights in trying to [TS]

01:57:55   poke holes and stories like these and I [TS]

01:57:58   don't think that you know we should take [TS]

01:58:00   everything at face value obviously [TS]

01:58:03   there's there is value to be had in fact [TS]

01:58:05   checking and not believing stories you [TS]

01:58:07   know without without doing some digging [TS]

01:58:09   but there's a difference between [TS]

01:58:10   independent verification and you know [TS]

01:58:15   and just going after somebody because [TS]

01:58:18   they're saying something that you don't [TS]

01:58:19   want to be true so you immediately jump [TS]

01:58:23   into attacking the first possible [TS]

01:58:24   opportunity it would occurs to me too [TS]

01:58:27   and I just can't say it enough and it [TS]

01:58:30   sounds trite but just how courageous it [TS]

01:58:33   was for her to publish this because she [TS]

01:58:36   didn't have our name under her own name [TS]

01:58:37   which it gives it you know I'm not [TS]

01:58:40   saying it's necessary i got the other [TS]

01:58:42   article that I link to that you [TS]

01:58:43   mentioned it was published under a [TS]

01:58:45   pseudonym and she admitted it upfront [TS]

01:58:47   she said I'm not comfortable sharing my [TS]

01:58:48   name this is a pseudonym so there's no [TS]

01:58:50   misdirection there but you know and [TS]

01:58:52   again I I'm not saying that that wasn't [TS]

01:58:54   useful and courageous in and of itself [TS]

01:58:56   but doing it under her own name is more [TS]

01:58:59   courageous and it leaves more credence [TS]

01:59:00   to it because she clearly knew to expect [TS]

01:59:05   a backlash and I think it's obvious that [TS]

01:59:09   you read the story and the part did to [TS]

01:59:14   me were you just the part of her story [TS]

01:59:16   where you just go whoa was the part [TS]

01:59:19   where many months into her employment at [TS]

01:59:22   hoober [TS]

01:59:24   I mean any other reason why i should say [TS]

01:59:27   this is that she now works at stripe she [TS]

01:59:28   hasn't she's already landed another job [TS]

01:59:30   she doesn't have to you know she's not [TS]

01:59:31   like she has to worry about her [TS]

01:59:32   employability she's got a great job at a [TS]

01:59:34   great company so it'd be easy to just [TS]

01:59:36   say you know what now I have a great job [TS]

01:59:37   at a great company thank god that's over [TS]

01:59:38   and and let it go um but by coming [TS]

01:59:43   public and and you know it's obviously [TS]

01:59:46   the most well-known she's ever been you [TS]

01:59:47   know she's a published author at a Riley [TS]

01:59:49   but so am I saying it's not like she [TS]

01:59:51   hasn't had a you know stuff in a public [TS]

01:59:56   eye before but it's a different kind of [TS]

01:59:58   notoriety right [TS]

01:59:58   notoriety right [TS]

02:00:00   I the hole that the part of the story [TS]

02:00:05   where you really just go I just went [TS]

02:00:06   whoa was the part where she and some [TS]

02:00:09   other women engineers at uber months [TS]

02:00:12   later talking amongst themselves [TS]

02:00:13   realized they all had problems with the [TS]

02:00:16   same guy I manager above them and [TS]

02:00:20   several of them had reported their [TS]

02:00:24   incidents 20 bers HR department and all [TS]

02:00:27   of them were told the same thing that [TS]

02:00:30   well this is we you know thank you for [TS]

02:00:33   reporting it but we're uncomfortable [TS]

02:00:34   taking any action against him at this [TS]

02:00:36   time because it's his first offense and [TS]

02:00:39   he's a high performer yeah and it's like [TS]

02:00:43   whoa so they just say that and you [TS]

02:00:46   realize well how did they think that [TS]

02:00:47   they were going to get away with it how [TS]

02:00:49   would you know how do they think that [TS]

02:00:50   eventually some of these women would [TS]

02:00:54   figure this out in a company one wants [TS]

02:00:59   to talk about right it's all based on [TS]

02:01:01   the assumption that even if they do [TS]

02:01:02   they'll get the message that you know [TS]

02:01:06   let you know this stuff is okay for high [TS]

02:01:10   performers and yeah let sleeping dogs [TS]

02:01:12   lie what are they going to do go public [TS]

02:01:14   that they're they seem like instead it [TS]

02:01:17   at a certain whether it was you know [TS]

02:01:19   stated or just unconscious between the [TS]

02:01:22   HR people who made the decision to to [TS]

02:01:25   deal with it this way HR clearly assumed [TS]

02:01:27   at Hoover clearly assumed that these [TS]

02:01:29   women would none of these women would go [TS]

02:01:30   public yeah well because it's it's too [TS]

02:01:35   much of a risk right um it's a you know [TS]

02:01:37   again we go back to the it's the [TS]

02:01:39   credibility issue you may never land a [TS]

02:01:41   job again if you're if you don't have [TS]

02:01:42   your facts in your story and things to [TS]

02:01:45   back things up a unit to back your [TS]

02:01:46   evidence up there's Susan Fowler Getty [TS]

02:01:50   by going public under her own name and [TS]

02:01:52   with as much scathing detail as she did [TS]

02:01:54   was willing to do something that a [TS]

02:01:57   company valued at 70 billion dollars was [TS]

02:01:59   willing to bet she wouldn't yep which is [TS]

02:02:05   yeah and you talk about courageous you [TS]

02:02:09   know people have been saying under the [TS]

02:02:10   radar don't go work for uber don't go or [TS]

02:02:12   froob or don't go work for uber [TS]

02:02:14   especially if you're a woman but just in [TS]

02:02:16   general it's just not a good culture but [TS]

02:02:18   there really hasn't been somebody [TS]

02:02:20   standing up on a chair and yelling no [TS]

02:02:23   don't go work for uber because you will [TS]

02:02:25   be sorry until Fowler like there's just [TS]

02:02:30   there wasn't that kind of like damn [TS]

02:02:33   nning public skate like see I won't even [TS]

02:02:37   invent like skater II a new word because [TS]

02:02:40   but that's but no it's it's such a [TS]

02:02:41   scathing critique of not only the HR [TS]

02:02:45   department I don't know how the people [TS]

02:02:46   who work in that age tired department [TS]

02:02:48   have spines or stomachs at that point [TS]

02:02:51   like I wonder how many people have quit [TS]

02:02:52   in that department specifically over the [TS]

02:02:54   years and also I forget from the story [TS]

02:02:57   but I wonder the gender of the HR [TS]

02:03:00   department liaisons to I think she said [TS]

02:03:04   that some of them were women yeah which [TS]

02:03:06   just if that's a big ol punch I don't [TS]

02:03:08   even yeah that's that's a that's strikes [TS]

02:03:12   me just such a betrayal to to have to [TS]

02:03:15   say to somebody's face sorry we're not [TS]

02:03:18   gonna do anything about your you know [TS]

02:03:20   your emotional or physical harassment [TS]

02:03:23   despite the fact that it could happen to [TS]

02:03:26   anybody you know we're just we're just [TS]

02:03:28   gonna look in your face and say no no it [TS]

02:03:32   yeah that's the kind of thing that makes [TS]

02:03:34   me want to never use their service again [TS]

02:03:36   and just like I commend everybody who's [TS]

02:03:40   deleted the app and burned it and it's [TS]

02:03:43   yeah all right I gotta delete the app [TS]

02:03:46   yeah you gotta it's gone I will say it [TS]

02:03:53   just in terms of people who can [TS]

02:03:54   outspoken critics I I've long followed [TS]

02:03:56   I'm sure I don't know if you know her [TS]

02:03:59   but I'm sure you've aware of her sour [TS]

02:04:00   lacy founder of oh yeah hand Oh calm and [TS]

02:04:04   she has been on the uber is actually a [TS]

02:04:09   terrible company beat four years now [TS]

02:04:11   we're path it's so the difference I [TS]

02:04:13   would say is that she's always been from [TS]

02:04:17   the out she's been a journalist [TS]

02:04:18   career she's been writing about it from [TS]

02:04:20   the outside as a journalist observing [TS]

02:04:22   the company um not as an insider that's [TS]

02:04:25   the difference treating her and and [TS]

02:04:26   Fowler yeah she can only get you know [TS]

02:04:31   anonymous quotes and you know hopefully [TS]

02:04:34   people wanting to go on the record but [TS]

02:04:36   it's not gonna it's ultimately all the [TS]

02:04:37   scoops in the world are not going to [TS]

02:04:39   help you in contrast with someone just [TS]

02:04:41   coming straight out and telling their [TS]

02:04:43   story yeah so anyway I felt like we had [TS]

02:04:46   to talk about it glad we did oh yeah uh [TS]

02:04:48   anything else you want to mention before [TS]

02:04:51   we wrap up gosh I think media we kind of [TS]

02:04:54   ran the gamut I know we caught up I feel [TS]

02:04:56   like I got caught up to the news [TS]

02:04:57   although who knows God Almighty this [TS]

02:04:58   probably like another boobers game scary [TS]

02:05:01   know in the next the last 30 minutes to [TS]

02:05:03   revolt yeah in the 24 hours it usually [TS]

02:05:07   takes four shows to get published we'll [TS]

02:05:08   never make it there's gonna be something [TS]

02:05:09   this little break doubtedly this news [TS]

02:05:13   cycle that's that's what I'd like to [TS]

02:05:14   talk about I'd like to talk about a [TS]

02:05:15   pause button could someone make me a [TS]

02:05:17   home kit and pause button for the news [TS]

02:05:19   cycle please no news hey everybody can [TS]

02:05:24   read a serenity fine work at I more calm [TS]

02:05:29   and on Twitter your twitter name is I [TS]

02:05:32   forget what's your twitter name veteran [TS]

02:05:34   how do you spell SE tter n yes that's a [TS]

02:05:38   fine follow on twitter anything else you [TS]

02:05:41   want to mention or pitch oh gosh other [TS]

02:05:44   than the we're doing a lot of work on an [TS]

02:05:46   iPad pros specifically people who are [TS]

02:05:48   doing real worlds iPad examples so if [TS]

02:05:51   you have if you're using your iPad for [TS]

02:05:54   work especially if it's something [TS]

02:05:55   outside the norm that you think is [TS]

02:05:58   pretty awesome please hit me up on [TS]

02:06:00   Twitter or on email at serenity a time [TS]

02:06:02   or because I'd love to hear your story [TS]

02:06:04   we're collecting some really good ones [TS]

02:06:06   all right I will definitely put a link [TS]

02:06:07   into the series iPad pros / it I more [TS]

02:06:10   but I think it's great as it gets I [TS]

02:06:12   think it's in a really interesting to [TS]

02:06:13   think about it and cut in terms of [TS]

02:06:15   context where these where and what these [TS]

02:06:16   people are doing not just show they're [TS]

02:06:19   doing the same things they used to do I [TS]

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02:06:39   sign do it right now the podcast is over [TS]

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02:06:45   a 15 day free trial Thank You serenity [TS]

02:06:49   thanks John [TS]