The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► the incomparable number 344 March 2017 [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► incomparable i'm your host Jason stell [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► and we're here it's an edition of our [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► book club and Scott McNulty is not here [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► ah what you know what happens he's not [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► on every book club he doesn't read all [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► the books he only read some of the books [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► he doesn't remember old and he certainly [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► doesn't remember I didn't remember I got [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► I got to make confession I didn't [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► remember anything about these books but [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► i did a reread and so we're here to talk [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► about a book from two thousand one and [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► another one from two thousand five by [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► both by neil gaiman first american gods [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► and then we'll also talk a little bit [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► about a Nancy boys which is not really a [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► sequel but has a lot of connections to [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► American Gods doing this now even though [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► I read this book whatever 15 years ago [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► is because there will be a TV series of [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► American Gods coming on the Starz [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► Network in the US and Netflix everywhere [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► else in the world in the next month or [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► month or so so joining me to talk about [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► these two books by famous comic book [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► writer Neil Gaiman how will he succeed [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► as a novelist hmm are the he succeeds I [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► forget that he's a comic book writer now [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► that's how well he succeeded are the [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► following fine people David J laura's [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► here hello hello there Monty Ashley [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► watch my coin trick whoo now if i stop [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► believing in you do you go away I at the [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► end of the podcast that's if you don't [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► believe in me anymore I go away it's [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► true okay pressure on you never forget [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► never forget Glenn Fleischmann's also [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► here hello hey you always knew I was [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► more an idea than a person Jason you [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► knew it yeah you're one of the new God's [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► the god of Glenn and it's just about as [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► long as we believe that they're unlikely [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► collect connections between people Glenn [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► will remain in existence I was reading [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► one of these books between the two days [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► I play jeopardy effect so there you go [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► Glenny the the thing that's amazing is [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► you actually know your dentist's [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► relatives god that's true it's strange [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► and allene Simpsons also here hello [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► hello um so who's starting the war Glenn [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► midscale enjoys man it's yeah we didn't [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► even need to ask really we knew it I'm a [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► trickster god you [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► it's true it's low-key Fleishman so I [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► you know I've been watching the run up [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► to the release of the American God TV [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► series and I've been like okay that's [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► cool i remember i read that book i [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► remember i liked that book then I went [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► to the wikipedia page for american gods [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► and i look at the plot summary and I [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► thought I don't I well no that's not [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► true I literally remember nothing about [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► a Nancy boys at all and I remember [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► really liking it American guides I [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► remember some of it but then as I reread [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► it because I did reread it I was amazed [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► at how much I just didn't remember I [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► guess its I feel like I'm becoming Scott [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► melty now I I just so little i mean i [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► remember shadow and i remember his [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► relationship with his with his wife and [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► I remember going to the small town and I [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► remember the house on the rock I [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► remember little bits of it but it was [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► really great to revisit actually I [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► enjoyed it a lot but it I had no I had [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► no good memory of this I assume [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► everybody here read it awhile ago I read [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► the original release when it came out [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► and then I read it again when the super [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► expensive Hill House slip cased authors [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► preferred edition came out that was [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► going to be the only way I could read [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► the other ten thousand words and they [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► would explain things that Neil Gaiman [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► had purposely left out of the book and a [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► they did not explain that and be that [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► content came out in paperback formerly [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► Irina Nancy boys first because I heard [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► him interviewed on NPR about it and it [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► was kind of stressed you know this isn't [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► exactly a sequel so I read that out of [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► interest and then I think a couple years [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► later picked up in rent american gods as [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► I say finishing it between two episodes [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► of Jeopardy taping and it was and you [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► know seem like a very different book and [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► then I Jason had the same experience I [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► remembered maybe a little differently i [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► remembered that plot much more closely [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► but the detail I forgot entire like [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► subplots and side trips because it's um [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► yeah other gods in particular is the [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► definition of a picaresque novel they go [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► from place to place to place to place to [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► place as game and did but [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► and you know it does have an overarching [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► theme it comes back but it is you can [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► forget some of the picaresque locations [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► that are stopped by oh yes now I I read [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► it when it came out and got through the [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► whole thing and thought wow that could [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► have been shorter and then I yeah I mean [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► I really like it don't get me wrong I [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► love him as a novelist but then when he [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► first announced oh I'm writing a book [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► that is loosely connected to american [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► gods and I thought well I'm not going to [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► read that because I already read a lot [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► of american gods and but then he kept [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► calling it his thorne-smith novel and I [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► love thorne-smith and I thought okay [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► well if he's if he's really doing [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► something in that spirit it's gonna be [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► shorter because you can't sustain that [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► for 500 pages and and it'll be light [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► it'll be fun and so I gotta Nancy boys [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► as soon as it came out and I think I [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► enjoyed it more although I think [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► American Gods is probably the better [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► richer deeper more respectable book if [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► that makes sense that's that's the one [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► that you would put up there on your your [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► shelf of great novels that you might not [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► ever read again but I enjoy to Nancy [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► boys a lot more Eileen what about you [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► picture it's San Francisco 2009 em was [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► the first time I actually read american [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► gods and i can remember it because it [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► was actually um I'm a person who suffers [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► from chronic illness and I was going [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► through kind of a down cycle and working [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► with doctors to figure it out and [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► American Gods was literally the first [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► book I had been able to read in [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► something like three or four years so I [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► have a very clear picture of reading it [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► in the w hotel looking over the Bay [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► Bridge like I remember reading American [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► Gods very clearly because I've always [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► been a voracious reader and then I [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► couldn't for so long so for that reason [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► I'm really biased toward american gods [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► because it was reconnecting me with with [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► novels and reading and something that [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► that I really really loved and I really [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► enjoyed the book and it was the 10th [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► anniversary edition know so this must [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► have been 2011 actually not she does a [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► picture differently slightly differently [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► the fog is a different text hang on hang [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► on got a week mcallen [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► the wall is slightly off a place in my [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► heart forever I still love it I still [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► love it um I was reading and Nancy boys [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► for this and I have the addition from [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► barnes & noble that's like I think the [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► original edit of american gods and [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► Anansie boys and i picked it up and I [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► started reading it in preparation for [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► this because I was like oh I never got [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► around to reading that and I was reading [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► and I was like this is a lot like never [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► wear this is all standing really [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► familiar like there are things we not [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► term scenes and that kind of thing and [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► I'm like this is this is just never wear [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► and then i got like I don't know a half [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► half way through or so and i realized [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► that i had read this book and because of [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► a specific segment home McNulty neatly [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► in the penalty I don't have any memory [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► ever of reading this book at all I have [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► no idea when what happened and I enjoyed [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► it but I have no idea when I read it for [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► the first time I mean like he's exactly [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► right when he called it a thorne-smith [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► novel because it is it is light [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► inconsequential first that as soon as [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► you're done it's gone and you can enjoy [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► it again but yeah in reading the [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► synopsis I was like oh yeah I do [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► remember that that was a really wacky [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► funny book about these two mismatch [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► brothers who have the heirs to be Anansi [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► the spider fortune their brother was not [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► quite identical brother I don't quite [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► agree that it's all that fun no I don't [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► like anyone in a nancy boy well I don't [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► take your word for that because all I [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► remember is that it was a zany zany book [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► but I I didn't reread it and all I've [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► got is a Wikipedia summary to go on then [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► the main character is fat charlie he is [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► a mope and a half for a blue two-thirds [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► of the book so I don't like him and [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► everyone else in the book is a huge jerk [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► to fat charlie all over the time the [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► character is supposed to hate and the [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► characters were supposed to like all [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► just make this guy's life awful a [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► hundred percent of their screen time I [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► remember finding it amusing and not what [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► I expected after having read american [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► gods when you hear that he's based he's [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► taking a really fun side character for [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► one book and he's in the title of the [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► next book i personally expected more uh [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► Nancy for mr. Manson [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► barely in it yet yeah that's that's this [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► is true you know one of my favorite [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► things so when I was in like second [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► grade we listen we like learned about [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► full characters from around the world [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► and I remember loving and not see the [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► spider so I've enjoyed Anansi the spider [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► as a concept as a folk tale for most of [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► my life and so when I read American Gods [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► I was like I got it look I know what [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► that it right it was so it was so great [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► and I've been coming back to what David [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► said about be it being so long one of [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► the things I really liked about american [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► gods and that in reading it again it is [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► long I actually thinking about the TV [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► show I was thinking well this is great [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► source material for the TV show because [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► American Gods feels like a book where [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► Neil Gaiman who is English and moved to [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► the Midwest he moved to he lived in [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► Minnesota for many years when he wrote [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► this book he lived in Minnesota and he [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► was traveling around the United States [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► and I feel like this is the book where [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► Neil Gaiman was like all right I'm gonna [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► empty my notebook of all the [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► observations I've made about America as [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► a person who is English and has come to [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► America and live there and so it is huge [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► and it is digressive and it has details [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► that are kind of bizarrely specific and [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► and if you were a he was a nobody writer [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► and you were a book editor and you were [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► like I'm really concerned about how long [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► this book is you could cut 200 pages out [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► of it pretty from the original pretty [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► easily and no one would notice but that [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► said I thinking about it my context of [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► the TV series one make great material [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► background material for building a world [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► for a TV series so it's actually kind of [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► nice that they've got all that material [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► because that he threw in there and uh [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► and too he's such a good writer and I I [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► forget you know I know about it in in [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► concept and then I read his prose again [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► and I just think oh my god this guy is [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► so good that I'm okay with how how [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► digressive it is and how many bizarre [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► tangents he takes because it's also good [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► that I'm like all right sure let's do [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► that for a while but back tell me about [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► that ancient god [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► sure he's got a knack of building a [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► character or a world in like a paragraph [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► or two like we meet Anubis and and [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► jackal in the book it's just I mean I [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► think in like three paragraphs do you [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► know where they are you kind of know the [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► relationship to one another and you're [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► settled in Cairo Illinois right here oh [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► yeah which is that we touch yeah it's [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► it's perfect the symbol is the thing as [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► as mr. Wednesday says yeah oh so we [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► should say I mean if you haven't read [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► this book why are you listening to this [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► but if you have read this book that's [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► the premise of it is I mean yeah I mean [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► there's some twists and turns I feel [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► like it's much more about the journey [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► than it is the destination the fact that [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► the climax happens and then there's [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► another like hundred pages after that oh [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► they don't get to the war they keep [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► promising that's a problem well that's [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► true right so I think the premise of it [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► is this premise is that people's belief [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► in God's or fairy tales or folk tales or [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► whatever creates representations of [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► those things in the real world and that [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► in this case America and this is [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► something i really liked a lot the idea [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► that North America is a land that is [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► resistance to resistant to giving them [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► the level of powers that they might have [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► had in the old world but they they are [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► still around so if you're an immigrant [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► and everybody who lives in in America is [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► an immigrant and we even have a segment [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► where the initial people who came across [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► the land bridge bring their gods with [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► them to everybody brings their gods with [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► them and then those gods kind of not [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► particularly powerful are kind of [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► kicking around in America until until [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► they are not believed in anymore and [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► that is that is the premise of this so [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► our character shadow who we meet early [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► on he's the protagonist of this book he [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► ends up going to work for a man named [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► mr. Wednesday who you may discover [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► immediately or it may take you 50 pages [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► to figure it out is Odin from Norse [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► mythology by the way that's Neil game [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► its most recent book is a just a whole [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► book of stories from Norse mythology and [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► we meet many other characters including [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► Anansi the spider along the way as well [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► as modern gods for the cons that there [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► is now people worship other things like [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► technology [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► and meet mass media and that's bad [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► they're in opposition to mr. wednesday i [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► get the way they are described clearly [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► takes the position that television is [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► bad and technology is bad the new things [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► are bad and the old things are good is [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► that the author or is that just the [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► viewpoint of mr. Wednesday who's placed [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► himself in opposition to them I believe [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► it is the off the ladder it's also 2001 [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► the internet was terrible in two [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► thousand so it's media at me the way now [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► Scott we did you gave a skeptical well [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► there I think it's all from Wednesday's [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► perspective right he uh we're past the [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► spoilery part right picture I mean again [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► I will just make it clear if you care [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► about what happens in this book don't do [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► that so yeah so very early on he [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► recruits shadow to work for him and [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► shadow is kind of on the side of the old [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► gods um just because that's what he's [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► been exposed to and so I do think that [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► it's from that perspective and not so [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► much the author's perspective I mean it [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► maybe it's both but I'd never read it as [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► a like Neil Gaiman preaching at people [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► to not watch TV and stay off the [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► freeways I read it as The Clash of the [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► old and the new and how does that get [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► resolved and how do they view one [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► another well we see lots of old gods and [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► they're mostly I'm gonna say quaint [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► which I'm gonna come back to later [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► they're charming okay they're jackal and [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► ibis even if they're crooks like [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► wednesday or mad sweeney they're fun but [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► then we see the new gods and their [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► described as fat as smelly and they're [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► the ones who are torturing our [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► protagonists like just the way the old [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► gods are described compared to the way [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► the new gods are described i think game [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► in very much takes a position here yeah [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► although it gets it by the end we [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► realize that do gods are dupes also and [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► that there is kind of this you know that [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► I mean that's we don't really get the [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► war because I mean jumping ahead we [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► don't get the war because [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► it turns out there is the no battle you [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► know one group the intangibles have you [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► know they it's kind of like gaming gives [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► us the truth early on the intangibles [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► say well we just think the market will [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► work out this eventually we already have [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► a war which is kind of what the book [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► says ultimately is that the war is a [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► concocted thing and these new gods will [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► come and go themselves they have no you [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► know protection either they'll be [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► avenged yeah but just because one group [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► of God's isn't winning the war doesn't [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► mean that one group of God isn't [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► described as being much worse than the [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► other group yeah I i agree i think it's [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► a pretty harsh depiction i mean its [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► course like media offering to show [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► Lucille Ball's balls uh you know naked a [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► chest is I think one of the most like [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► that terrifying it's an ugly thing in [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► the book intentionally and it's and it's [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► brought back up later it's such an ugly [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► idea right and so that's and then later [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► you know media is packaged as somebody [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► who looked really slick and whatever it [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► is like shadow says you know I I liked [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► it better when you were just upfront [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► about you know being as coarse as you [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► really are that's not a positive image I [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► will agree I still disagree I do [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► understand what you're saying but um I [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► didn't I didn't get that at any event I [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► think I think we will find out more [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► about how named Neil Gaiman feels about [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► these new gods because the apparently [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► his maybe next novel is a sequel to [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► american gods and really the rumor is [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► that it's about the new gods and I'm son [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► lies about why he would do that I wonder [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► maybe theres some timing involved there [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► I just feel be good now it's all about [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► how great television is everybody exit [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► laughing all the time about rats retcons [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► the entire book oh my god also just as [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► as shadow is learning how to do magic [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► tricks you know this story telling and [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► this is a part of what this book is [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► about is about you know stories and [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► legends and things like that [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► storytelling can be a magic trick we are [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► watching as it turns out a con being [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► perpetrated by Odin and Loki we are also [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► watching a con being perpetrated by Neil [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► Gaiman where he needs to get us to [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► really believe that a war between the [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► gods is coming between old and new and [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► so he's going to ramp up like the [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► differences between the old [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► new gods because he doesn't want you to [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► pay too much attention to what that [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► whole thing we rode and talks about [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► various cons that her famous that goes [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► on for many pages good many many pages [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► many pages and is paid off later and so [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► I feel like he's you know he wants to [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► he's doing a lot of misdirection to he's [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► doing a lot of look over there when the [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► when the coins over here himself in [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► order to sell you into this this premise [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► that turns out to and not at all be true [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► so I think that that is a part of it [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► where he wants you to feel like you know [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► yeah I'm for shadow and those new gods [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► are bad and but it's actually just part [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► of the magic trick this edition of the [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► incomparable is sponsored in part by [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► John Birmingham's book a girl in time on [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► the eve of a huge breakout success a [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► poor but brilliant young game developer [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► is pulled out of her world and time [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► itself by a cowboy desperately searching [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► for the daughter he lost 200 years ago [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► that is the story of John Birmingham's [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► girl in time which sm sterling described [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► as a smashing time travel cross cultural [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► adventure deranged and brilliant I have [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► to say I read it too I really liked it [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► and John Birmingham can't pay me to say [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► that I liked his book only to talk about [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► it but I really enjoyed it it was a lot [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► of fun it is a rollicking time-traveling [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► adventure star is Katie McCall she's [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► ready to be rich and famous the money is [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► going to come into her bank from her [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► appt sale she's going to be this huge [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► successful star and then comes Marshall [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► John Titanic Smith who rescues her and [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► then they're both lost in time Time [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► magazine wrote about weapons of choice [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► John Birmingham's first time travel [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► novel which we covered in episode 163 of [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► the incomparable that it was like a [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► clive cussler novel fell into a [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► transporter beam with a stephen ambrose [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► history and they came out all fused [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► together a girl in time is kind of like [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► that like your favorite episode of [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► doctor who got mashed up with a cowboy [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► mythology of Deadwood and justified [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► while joss whedon watch to make sure [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► that Katie McCall smashed all the key [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► performance indicators for a modern [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► female hero also and I am not kidding [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► about this pineapple and pepperoni pizza [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► appears in this book hmm but because [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► John recognizes some people are [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► understandably frightened a pineapple [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► and pet [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► brownie pizza and wonder what it might [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► do to a book even one as awesome as this [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► for the next week he has dropped the [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► price of the e-book to two dollars just [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► for incomparable listeners two dollars [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► right now get it from your preferred [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► online bookstore but get it quick before [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► that yummy pizza goes cold a girl in [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► time by John Birmingham the notion that [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► got that God's don't live in America is [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► you know it's the plural gods or like [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► gods of things gods of concepts and we [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► have one you know overarching unitary [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► God or try Mary God that swept through [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► parts of the world and America it's [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► taken strong root but of course Jesus [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► the Holy Ghost God the Father don't [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► appear in this and in I addition I read [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► there's he's like hey at the end he's [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► like hey you know well I wrote this bit [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► about Jesus I thought how could you have [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► this book and none of Jesus appear but I [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► didn't want it to be a battle between [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► other one governor so here's the part I [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► cut out and I read it I'm like yep [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► there's a reason you cut this out and I [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► like what Gaiman said about that which [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► is that in the scenario of his book [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► because people ask where's god where's [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► Jesus he says he says they're doing so [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► well in North America that they don't [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► need they're not gonna deal with any of [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► this penny-ante business that's [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► happening down on this level right guys [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► totally we're not talking to Odin Jesus [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► will not take Odin's calls okay they [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► don't need to go to the corn palace for [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► a meetup they're fine yeah exactly right [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► and I think that is so deftly of damen [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► to be like yes I'm just not gonna even [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► get into it right let's he doesn't want [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► this to be about um he wants it to be [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► about discarded God's garlic gods that [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► were brought to the New World and [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► discarded that's what he wants it to be [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► about ultimately and then he places them [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► against sort of the gods that are the [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► cautionary tale of oh you're turning [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► your television to your God and that's [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► the opposition but that's that's the [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► story he wants to tell here is really [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► about myth and about maybe modern myths [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► so it's all you know that's that's [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► that's his goal kid can I ask to I feel [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► like there's a curious of other people's [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► thoughts about this is Miss is a big me [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► and rebook with a you know kind of [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► wrapper around it and shadow is the [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► element that plays through it that kind [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► of takes us through the journey and the [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► story and he's always on stage even when [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► a lot of actions happening off stage but [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► the thing with hensel Mon I found [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► fascinating and I'd remember [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► that from my reading and I couldn't [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► remember how it fit into the book and [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► even to the point that Wednesday stashes [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► a shadow in this place in lakeside this [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► bizarrely flourishing community in the [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► middle of a depressed area and everyone [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► is happy it just kind of has it like [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► we're all you know everything is fine [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► but everything really does seem fine and [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► then all these coincidences pile up but [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► hensel Mon is a very interesting [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► character he's presented very well the [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► town is painted very well and then at [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► the end the fact that Gaiman comes back [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► and says okay the war didn't happen [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► we've finished everything off [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► everything's tied up but wait a minute [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► there's that guy in Lake ciders than the [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► mystery of the missing girl right and [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► then in the history of the book that he [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► happens to pick up that's the minutes of [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► foot down gettin full from uh it's a [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► critical part of the story but I feel [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► like I don't I feel like gaming is tied [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► that together in a way that I don't [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► fully get I don't think it's bad [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► storytelling it's good storytelling that [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► like it's almost like Henzel man is a [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► nugget like he's the he's a good thing [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► for this town it's you know the is it a [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► rotten thing at the corner and again [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► think about the ones who the ones who [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► walk away from oma loss this is [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► basically that story right Ursula K Le [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► Guin story it's so powerful is uh you [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► know you can have everything you want [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► this time to everything will be create [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► great we're just gonna kill one child a [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► really nice one though the kids are [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► going to be great we kill one a year [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► except that one year will thrive where [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► we got a note of one yeah but but it's [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► that notion he's like the people really [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► know that's where their bargaining is [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► kind of like well I think they sort of [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► do and there's so there's a kind of [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► rotten or is it a good deal but this [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► moral problem that is off to the side of [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► all the pic rest stop it happens in one [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► place we come back to it I don't know [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► people feel about that in terms of the [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► structure of the book the thing I [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► remember most of this book before I [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► reread it was all of the stuff in that [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► town and exact that's absolutely that's [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► what I remember it's like it's like a [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► really great novella inside this novel [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► yeah when I think of american gods i [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► think of first the hint suleman story [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► which i think is great and is so [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► grotesque when you learned his true [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► origins and the descriptions of house on [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► the rock everything else pops out of my [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► head [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► yeah same yeah I think it's such a [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► beautiful little beautiful relatively [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► illustration of kind of Shadows a [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► metamorphosis as a person in his [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► realization of what has been happening [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► this whole time like it was just this [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► kind of like he was like yeah this is a [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► really nice town and OH that hun suleman [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► guys kind of interesting with his car [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► and his stories he's a great storyteller [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► and then all of a sudden that's like [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► wait I see what's happening and I think [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► that that's such a great illustration [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► and such a great tie-in from you know [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► earlier in the novel that he's just like [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► yeah I figured this out you suck there's [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► some great threats to I mean it feels a [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► little bit like a again like it could be [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► its own thing just just that story cuz [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► he gets the book and he know it's oh [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► look there's a guy who looks just like [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► him suleman in the past right and oh [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► won't he like that at one point shadow [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► takes the book with him because if he [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► runs into him suleman he's gonna show it [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► to him and I'm thinking uh oh man this [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► is better though everyone you've met [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► since you left jail is a god yeah put it [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► together right bit but if gentleman [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► finds out that it's gonna be like just [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► like the the sheriff's dad who figured [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► it out he says at the end and had to be [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► taken care of and it doesn't come to [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► pass he doesn't show the book to Hansel [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► minutes on it it's not a thing but and [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► Gaiman does this call back to where we [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► had a little vignette about the about [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► the character who turns into hanselman [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► at the very early on in the book that's [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► this kind of horrific vignette and then [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► that's the callback of like that's what [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► you were seeing there is the creation of [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► this of this this worshiped figure that [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► was a child who was taken away from his [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► parents and all that kind of a metaphor [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► for America that as a child who was [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► raised in darkness and killed brutally [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► to serve as the sacrificial there are so [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► many minutes I mean they're stacked up [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► like the metaphors are stacked up the [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► small town is a metaphor the [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► storytelling of Hin Suleman is inside [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► the storytelling of Gaiman but it's also [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► about the storytelling of myths that [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► create the gods ah it's metaphors all [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► the way down you could pull out Hinch [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► lemon entirely and just have you know [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► little town they have this quaint [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► tradition about sinking and conquer [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► clunker every year and now here's the [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► twist and it would I think would be a [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► lot like the lottery oh yeah one of my [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► favorite things about this book by the [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► way is that shadow puts down money on [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► the time that the clunker goes in the [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► water and that's when he sinks the [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► clunker when he finds the dead girl in [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► the I think the work to check that I [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► missed that detail yeah of course you [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► did oh yeah it's the time it is it's [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► like which I would say is not is not [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► following by the rules if you go out [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► onto the ice and make it sink at that [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► time you don't get your money from the [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► lottery I'm sorry its ties into it [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► there's a Dirk Gently thing and it's [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► actually a common thread and a lot of [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► you know science fiction fantasy too is [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► that in the Dirk Gently books he in the [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► tea time when he people ask him things [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► and he gives them he's pretending to be [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► a medium at one point he gives Curt [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► responses and every single thing he says [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► is true and it comes true by the end of [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► the book of you have to kind of go back [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► and check and I think what was the we [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► did an accomplished so that's something [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► where it turned out if you checked [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► everything that was stated and predicted [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► was true as well forgot what it was but [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► but in this too is like shadow doesn't [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► know he doesn't know he's a god until we [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► get well into it although you know it [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► sort of becomes more obvious but always [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► a half-god at least let me god the [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► things he says our arch are there not [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► prophetic he doesn't necessarily make [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► them happen on that case I guess he did [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► but there's like a there's just a [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► clockwork well all the coincidences are [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► not coincidences is the story of this [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► book like everything that we think is [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► like oh isn't that lucky it's like no [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► that wasn't lucky that was part of the [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► the part of the story oh yeah cuz game [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► had a gaming how to come back and tell [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► us that hint Suleman is the one is the [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► reason they're all these coincidences in [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► this little town right that he wasn't a [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► bad store I'm not a bad writer this [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► wasn't hacked waiting yeah loci being [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► his cellmate is another good example of [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► like you know it's a setup it's a setup [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► that's the only at least he puts in [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► right game and being a good writer he's [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► like alright let me show you how I did [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► this trick well yeah I first you think [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► it works the other way that like oh I'm [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► clever I'm a clever reader I recognized [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► that the guy's name was low key liye [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► Smith therefore I figured out that [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► Wednesday must have learned all about [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► shadow from his cell mate oh-ho-ho and [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► then it turns out no [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► actually wednesday knew before that yeah [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► that's good yeah it's it's kind of like [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► the way i like to explain Penn & Teller [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► is that they they do show you how tricks [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► are done but they don't actually show [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► you how they do their tricks right and [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► then you get surprised again it's like [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► they're they're showing you they do the [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► trick they show you how to do the trick [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► and they still pull something while [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► you're showing while you're watching how [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► they did it and then Gaiman does that [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► very nicely in the double in this [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► direction let's talk my shadow cuz he is [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► our main character he's an interesting [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► guy he's he's in he's in prison we never [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► really get a lot of information about [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► why he's in prison there's a little bit [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► but not a lot he beat the heck out of [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► the two guys he robbed the bank with [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► yeah walking away with the money but [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► they could never prove that he took the [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► money and the two guys wouldn't testify [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► about the bank robbery so they were only [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► able to put him away for three years for [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► us oh there you go there you go but it's [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► a it's not it's not a big mystery it's [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► just handled and it's and it's just like [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► and he's not like convicted of a crime [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► he didn't commit it's just he did this [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► thing he's serving some time he's going [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► to get out we meet him in jail and he's [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► gonna get out and get back to his his [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► wife back in in in town and then [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► everything goes wrong cuz it turns out [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► that she dies just as he's being [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► released that she dies with his best [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► friend who's going to give him the job [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► when he goes back that they were having [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► an affair and it is into this complete [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► like destruction of his attempt at [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► re-entry into the world where Mr [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► Wednesday comes in and then of course [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► what's interesting is he goes to the he [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► go this is something I did remember he [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► goes to the funeral he's completely [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► completely confused and and and beside [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► himself he flips a gold coin into her [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► grave and she comes back to life and [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► appears throughout the rest of the book [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► mostly as a reanimated a dead body who [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► kills people and it's a really [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► interesting relationship that they have [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► whoops and she was also involved in the [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► whole robbery plot somehow but I never [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► really explained like at one point or a [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► couple points maybe even she [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► apologizes for getting shadow involved [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► yeah but it's never really laid out how [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► she's involved in that exactly and I [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► would kind of like to know yeah there's [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► that like I said they definitely don't [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► seem to go get all the details of what's [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► you get the sense there's more to that [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► crime then lets on laura is a really [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► interesting character right i mean the [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► way we meet hers first is this idealized [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► you know woman who's the wife of the [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► prisoner who's going to finally get back [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► to his sweetheart and then we get to see [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► her as the oh no but she was actually [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► cheating on you behind your back and all [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► of that and so we get both extremes [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► right and then when we meet her first [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► she's already dead but now is also [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► walking around which is interesting and [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► uh and and so you get this really weird [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► ambivalent kind of relationship where [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► there's love but there's also an [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► acknowledgement that there's [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► impenetrable like barriers between them [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► not only the the nature of how she died [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► which was as a part of having an affair [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► with this guy but also the fact that [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► she's dead now so you know it's the [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► metaphorical and literal reasons why [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► they can't really connect and it's I [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► just find the whole relationship kind of [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► fascinating that there's this great kind [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► of love between them and and yet also [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► this kind of inseparable barrier between [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► them he's very calm about the whole [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► thing which is like like she shows up [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► dead in his hotel room and asks for a [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► cigarette who's like okay sure I'll go [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► buy a pack of cigarettes and I'm like [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► huh isn't that shadow though like shut [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► that's that's a funny things about [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► shadow is that he's yeah he he he comes [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► across I mean we learn his origin story [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► right which was that he was he was a [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► picked on bookish kid and then he grew [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► and he became treated then he was [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► treated like a like a big dumb guy but [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► he's actually smart he gets [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► underestimated all the time and uh and [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► also has this thing where he can he can [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► do damage and be violent but but unless [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► brought to that point he's just kind of [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► easygoing and passive it's a it's a [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► fascinating kind of collection of traits [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► yeah unflappable uh shadow meet [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► Wednesday so early that I feel like [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► everything we see from shadow after that [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► he's kind of at the point where he's [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► like all right God's got it right like [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► and he has an attitude that's like you [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► know as long as you're paying me I'll [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► believe whatever you want buddy that's [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► kind of how i feel about like taking [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► show like buffy the vampire slayer where [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► you always have to have people say oh [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► there's no magic spell on you like it's [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► been a magic spell every other time Yeah [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► right are you sure there aren't [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► leprechauns he reminds me a little bit [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► of the character Parker from the Richard [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► stark Donald westlake novels who is an [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► unflappable con man I mean he is you [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► know he's out for nobody but Parker but [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► there's something of the same kind of [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► you know well this is this is the [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► situation i'm in I accept it I go [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► forward what do I do now and he only [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► acts when he has to but this is a [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► coming-of-age story to write like he's [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► kind of a big guy who never grew up he's [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► been a little shiftless he somehow maybe [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► his wife or maybe he kind of got into [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► that situation committed an act of [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► violence it was unusual for him and then [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► he's kind of meandering around he's [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► never figured out what he does is why [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► always think to is that also ties into [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► the Laura saying about him you never [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► seemed like you were alive I walk into a [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► room right as you were there there's no [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► presence she's the dead one and she says [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► that I'm dead I'm saying this to you but [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► I think I mean obviously the whole book [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► is a story of him actually achieving his [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► power of the father you know the [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► Freudian thing your father has to die [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► before you actually you know reach your [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► own manhood or adulthood this is where [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► he learns that Odin is his father right [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► that's one of the things that comes up [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► in it and it's sort of built to talk [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► about his mother traveling around the [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► world and he ends up as a kid in San [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► Francisco at one point and all that then [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► we finally realized that yeah Odin is [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► his father and that makes a lot of sense [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► then that he was disconnected from his [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► like actual life and now this insanity [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► that we're viewing of gods and Wars and [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► things like that actually is the thing [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► that connects him back to reality for [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► him and who he is as a person this [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► episode of the incomparable is sponsored [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► in part by audible do you love books but [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► find you never have time to read them do [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► you listen to the incomparable book club [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► episode having not actually read books [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► because you like the idea but never find [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► the time guess what odd [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► can solve this problem because with [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► audible you can get audio books and [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► listen to those books you've been [TS]

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00:35:39 ◼   ► life while you're on the go wherever you [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► are their app is free and works on [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► iphones iPad Android Windows Phone you [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► name it you can download and listen on [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► Kindle Fire 500 different mp3 players [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► basically any device you can think of [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► will play these audible books and you [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► can listen and with audible you own your [TS]

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00:35:58 ◼   ► anywhere go back to them later they're [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► not checked out or anything like that [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► they're yours to use right from your [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► smartphone and there is something called [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► the great listen guarantee if you decide [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► you don't like the book you chose don't [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► worry you can exchange any book you [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► weren't happy with for another title any [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► time no questions asked now in this very [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► episode we discuss the full cast [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► audiobook production of american gods [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► and how amazing it is guess what it's on [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► audible so that could be your book right [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► there the full cast production of [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► american gods featuring a bunch of great [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► actors including dennis boots of Charis [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► who once personally insulted several [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► members of the incomparable staff it's a [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► long story anyway he's a great actor and [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► it's a great book so you could check [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► that out that could be your audible [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► choice or any of the books in our what [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► are we reading other than that [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► out-of-print book that Glenn's going to [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► mention because it's Glenn those are [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► unaudible I mean these audibles got at [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► all and you can pick it including [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► American Gods with the full cast and if [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► you like me you're in the kitchen you're [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► washing the dishes and cooking dinner [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► and you need something to do guess what [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► pops some earbuds in your ears and the [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► time will fly by as you make your [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► kitchen clean and feed your family while [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► listening to a great book you can't make [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► more time but you can make the most of [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► it so turn your cooking time or your [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► workout or your walk into something more [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► with a free trial at audible go to [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► audible.com slash snell to start now [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► actually you know one of the things and [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► this is neil gaiman moving to minnesota [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► from england the poor trails of intense [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► cold like shadow at one point goes out [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► of the house and says it's pretty cold [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► and he's almost dead like a mile layer [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► because it's like 30 below and he didn't [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► realize it it's like I that's enough [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► the details of like how you put tape on [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► the windows with like plastic wrap and [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► all that and it's like that Neil Gaiman [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► learned that because he moved to [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► Minnesota but as a native californian [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► especially it's like wow I I that stuck [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► with me that this town where it's [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► intensely cold like that just amazing [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► detail not nothin do with God's it's [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► just like it's really cold that was [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► really that's the most terrifying thing [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► in the book for you isn't it yeah it's [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► 30 below are you kidding forget that [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► it's just spectacular so that's another [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► little just evocative part there's so [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► much of akut of stuff in here we haven't [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► even mentioned at least other than as an [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► aside lots of little short stories in [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► this entire book about like how this how [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► somebody came to America from somewhere [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► and brought their God along with them [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► and there are many of those and those [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► are all pretty great too I mean I kid [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► about you know I read a lot of american [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► gods and all that but it reminded me of [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► Isak Dinesen it reminded me of Italo [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► Calvino with with just these sort of [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► side stories about God's and myth and it [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► was just that I loved I didn't mind that [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► I actually I almost didn't care about [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► the plot of the book I really preferred [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► the little digression if we're getting [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► snooty it reminds me a little of the [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► second part of Don Quijote which is also [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► very much a story about stories in that [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► the story will come to a complete stop [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► so somebody can tell you a story well [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► that's what I say like if you were [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► looking at this as a book editor you [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► could have paired this way back to with [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► a fun story fun fantasy story right but [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► Gaiman has enough clout that he's gonna [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► be listened to and and he's so good at [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► it I mean this is I want to come back to [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► this like when he was writing this book [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► he was I mean he wrote never wear it's [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► true but like he was famous comic book [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► writer Neil Gaiman right he pretty miss [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► comic book writer Neil Gaiman and he [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► writes american gods and I read it and I [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► think well I mean now it's a lot less [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► obvious a lot more obvious right because [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► we know Neil Gaiman now but I read it [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► and I think damn this guy was so good [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► like never where is good but it's not on [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► the level of american gods in terms of [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► his just like [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► you're writing skill I think he'd done [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► half of Good Omens I don't like Good [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► Omens I don't like Good Omens at all I [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► like Good Omens very much okay and I [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► like never wear to never wear is a good [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► book but i don't i don't like gas but [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► paragraphs and never wear and go like oh [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► my god this guy is such a good writer [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► and in american gods i did that all the [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► time i was thinking about the whiskey [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► jack business in terms of the writing [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► where they call him whiskey jack and [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► heat over a few pages in the shadows [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► thinking in his head doesn't there's too [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► many syllables there not saying whiskey [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► jack but they keep saying whiskey jack [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► whiskey jack and then after a little [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► while introduces the we skated jack or [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► whatever pronunciation is and but it's [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► slow and so you're hearing shadow here's [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► something wrong and interpret it in a [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► different way and i thought was very [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► clever but it didn't bug because I'm [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► like I have this little itch in my head [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► like okay it's not whiskey Jack what is [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► it is he gonna tell us is he gonna tell [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► us and the story progresses and it's [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► like oh it's just more complicated to [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► say name I think there's a lot of [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► respect for Native Americans in this [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► book that I appreciate too if you're [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► going to talk about American Gods you [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► need to talk about the Native American [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► Gods too and so I like that we have it [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► we have a Native American character in [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► Sam and we have a Native American God [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► and then we have the story of them [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► coming because the Native Americans were [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► also immigrants thousands of years ago [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► to this continent and we get that story [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► too and I like all of that all that [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► stuff is is is is pretty cool too and [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► it's just mixed into the pot and it's [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► gaming's game and saying everybody [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► brought their baggage with them when [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► they came here this is a story as old as [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► time like in fact it's the it's the [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► Egyptians came here which is also by the [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► way I would say it's really cool but [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► totally not supported by historical [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► records but but the Egyptians came to [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► the Mississippi River sure why not and [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► then we know that the Norse came to take [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► you north america around a thousand they [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► all brought their baggage with them and [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► left it here he's great even works in [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► that that scout in the the tribe that's [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► kind of coming over the land bridge [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► whose gender bending and his you know as [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► a scout was perceived as a man and does [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► a man's job and is married and that has [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► a child you know through whatever [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► offices and I was like that my [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► recollection I don't have a [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► of anthropological history but my [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► recollection is that is common across [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► many cultures is that men and women had [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► more fluid roles depending what was [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► needed they would step into a gender [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► role as opposed to being required to be [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► of that gender or being of a fixed [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► gender I like the also i think one of [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► the most beautiful and heartbreaking [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► moments in is the story about the about [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► the first people coming to north america [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► oh yeah and the end of that which is [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► basically like those people stayed but [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► of course the some of them stayed but [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► the others moved on and they created [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► other tribes and all of that and then [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► you know many thousands of years later [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► some of those descendants came back to [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► this original valley which was the first [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► valley that was that was lived in and [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► killed all the people who are there and [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► found destroyed their God and found [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► their God in the cave and threw it down [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► a ravine it's like it's so sad but [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► that's the depth that's deep history [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► right deep human history of tens of [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► thousands of years not even knowing that [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► those were the first there were their [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► relatives and the first place that they [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► as a people landed in this continent [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► it's just it's yeah it's tragic and [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► beautiful oh alright he had to make up [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► the details but the overall story is [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► certainly accurate right yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► that's what the that's what the history [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► shows yeah um I'm a big fan of channel [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► bog I think he is a 1 i've not chapter [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► it's great character Wow well maybe I am [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► Chernabog maybe I'm bila Bhagat depends [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► it depends on the season yeah but I just [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► I love that sort of weird flat with [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► these old Slavic people who are gods but [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► also you know over boiling vegetables [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► and just the he comes from almost a [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► different book but he sort of fits in [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► like like a Nazi like you feel like [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► they're visiting from another story into [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► this story and there's a whole other [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► world I mean which leads us to not see [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► boys but but cherub ah I think there's [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► just this the fact is he's sort of [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► resigned to his fate he figures he's [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► eventually gonna die out all the people [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► believe them are gone he's a pretty dark [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► God he liked human sacrifice that was [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► part of what he was about and they've [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► all these great forces arrayed and and [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► then he gets you know he he gets younger [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► because he sort of absorbs energy from [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► the fight and that bet he makes that [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► wonderful moment when shadow [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► Isis he has to put something at stake to [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► make it real and it's kind of a little [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► bit of shifting point that's when Zoey a [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► bowl and Shania takes him off and gives [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► him the moon and so forth but it's this [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► great thing it's like he puts himself on [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► the line it's like okay well some point [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► we're all done you come back and I'm [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► going to hit you in the head with a [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► hammer and kill you so I was like all [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► right and then I'll win the next game [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► you come with this okay that's the deal [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► and he's always hanging over us for the [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► rest of the novel even though we're [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► pretty sure I mean I was pretty sure the [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► first time I read this that it wasn't [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► gonna end with shouting his head bashed [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► in right that was good that knew [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► something would happen yeah now he's fun [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► he's a cranky old man like can't cranky [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► crusty old guy who's Katie was young [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► good cuz cuz by the undies younger he [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► looks healthier and he becomes bulabog [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► because the world is changing it was a [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► brighter world and the three sisters are [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► cool there's I mean we could go on [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► forever about the all the details [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► because there are a lot of really [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► interesting characters we mentioned mr. [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► ibis and jackal oh I love this drives [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► and they were on the funeral home that's [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► a great bit i love i love that they're [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► just they're a lot of really interesting [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► gods that we meet along the way and i [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► love that they're all kind of down on [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► their luck that's why we meet them is [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► that they're not really worshipped so [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► much anymore and and they just have to [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► make do and get by and they tell horror [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► stories of like gods that they've known [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► who have fallen on even harder times [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► like whoever it is who ends up just [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► being a bird I'm eating roadkill Oh [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► Horace Horace Horace goes mad and yeah [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► it's just a bird most the time yeah I [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► would like to briefly complain about the [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► forgotten God if I may everybody wants [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► to good all right there is a character [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► who Neil Gaiman goes out of his way to [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► describe as rich and at the center of [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► things but that shadow cannot remember [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► at all beautifully presented and on the [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► face of it I think that's really cool [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► however I also think Neil Gaiman had a [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► specific God in mind he said yes there [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► is a specific God that can be figured [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► out and I think that it completely fails [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► to describe whatever God he's picking [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► whether it's Hades which is a lot of [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► people's guests at one point the faq on [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► his website somebody asked who is it and [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► then he said well I was going to answer [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► but then I got this other email saying [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► please don't [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► people so now I'm never going to answer [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► that question isn't it beautiful for it [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► to be undefined like that that it's the [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► reminds me of the silence and Doctor Who [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► right you look away and you can't [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► remember anymore its kind of really cool [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► in the story and do we need to know it's [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► a story it's made up sometimes not all [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► the parts of a story fit I thought it [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► was the invisible hand of the market [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► except he explicitly states that the [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► intangibles are modern and they are the [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► invisible hand of the market as it but I [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► think you know the invisible here the [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► market goes back like it's an economic [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► fact for hundreds of years as a as a [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► concept but he said no it's part of the [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► stock market so it's not invisible and [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► many people come up with many guesses [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► and again I'm gonna say Neil claims it's [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► a specific God I like that as a concept [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► though it didn't bother me that I didn't [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► know who it was but i think i started [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► reading the book i saw some reference to [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► it that you never find out who it was [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► and so when i read the book again i was [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► like oh yeah i'm never gonna find out so [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► i just cope with that if it hadn't been [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► a real god i would love it because it [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► would be Oh somebody we forgot although [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► this forgotten God is doing really well [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► for himself but instead he got kind of [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► cute about it and said oh and somebody [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna tell you who it is [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► yeah it's not somebody and I'm honestly [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► okay with that that does yeah me too [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► yeah Monty's angry at neil gaiman's post [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► publishing statements about the book not [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► the actual text of the book yourself in [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► this case right I want to move on and [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► just let everybody I mean I think [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► American Gods is the is the most notable [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► work here to talk about but I did leave [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► some time because I know some people [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► read or reread Monty hi uh Nancy boys [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► for this and we talked about it a little [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► at the beginning but if there are things [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► to talk about if you've got some things [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► to say about an NC boys as the follow-up [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► it it's unclear whether it really fits [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► in the Canon or not mr. Nancy is ended [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► only a little bit as a ghost cuz the [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► whole story is that mr. Nancy dies and [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► he's got two sons that are a mismatched [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► pair of sons who are the legacy to the [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► Anansi again spiritual fortune ? kind of [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► thing that's going on so Monty anything [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► more to say about a nancy boy is not [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► really i mean it it is a much lighter [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► book yeah it has themes but not deep [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► themes it is more more of a farce to [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► write down to the fact that like spider [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► spider pretends to be charlie and [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► ends up having sex with Charlie's fiance [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► and I mean it's like wow it is meant to [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► be like a bedroom farce with God's kind [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► of thing and insert yes and oh boy I [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► didn't realize my family was just so [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► crazy uh-huh and and I don't mean that [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► in like it's a fun book but it is a [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► wacky book I like the thing he brings up [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► a few times in the book which is that [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► all stories are Anansie stories even if [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► a Nancy doesn't win because stories are [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► now about cleverness and smartness [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► instead of being Tiger stories which are [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► all about winning through brute force [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► and strength the thing the one thing [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► that I remember from this book and it's [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► actually I didn't remember that it was [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► from this book until I read the summary [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► and I was like oh that's what that book [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► is is the climax happening on the [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► Caribbean islands yeah which is good [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► every 30 dramatic at the end there [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► that's like the the stakes are raised [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► and there's the there's a Caribbean [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► island and I think there's a storm and [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► yeah yeah well what's weird is when the [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► big climax happens both fat charlie and [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► spider are often in some kind of [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► beginning of the world nether realm so [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► they're not actually involved in saving [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► the fiancé and her mother now save [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► themselves I I have a I have a something [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► I want to bring up there that ties in [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► both American God at scotts and anansi [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► boys which was the the representation of [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► consent and we talked about this little [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► on / before we do the podcast to which [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► is uh you know I felt it's worse than [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► anansi boys because I feel like it's [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► handled trivially that that uh Rosie fat [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► Charlie's fiancee she's like I'm not [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► gonna have no not gonna sleep over I'm [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► not gonna have sex with you before we [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► get married and then shadow waltzes in [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► and it basically says you're gonna have [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► sleeping she's like okay yeah I'm sorry [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► spider but yeah spider walks in and says [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► you'll have sex with me and she's like [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► great and and there's no consequence to [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► that she slaps him when she discovers [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► and that's the end of that and I felt [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► both that and then the representation of [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► mr. Wednesday's having to you know sort [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► of insatiable need to consume young [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► women even underage women and at one [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► point a notes that one of the things he [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► learned while I was on the World Tree [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► was that after he'd had them they would [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► never have another man again well it was [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► rather harsh and so there's there's [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► these different angles I was thinking in [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► anansi boys in particular reminded me of [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► like the one of the flaws with revenge [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► of the nerds is that when the character [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► has sex with the Darth Vader mask on [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► with the sports guy's girlfriend and [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► she's and she doesn't know and he takes [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► it off and she's like oh you know [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► essentially oh that was great you know [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► and he's like yeah and it's at when he's [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► actually just raped her and I felt a [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► little bit of that in this book I know [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► it's not exactly you know it's not a I [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► don't think it's a depiction of sexual [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► assault per se but it comes really close [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► to not making it a bad thing well I [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► think that's on purpose like not telling [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► you anything you don't know but Zeus got [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► up to some stuff he was a really [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► attractive swan what are you talking [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► about yeah but I think there's a [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► consequence to his Zeus never gets wet I [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► mean it's it's not just a presentation [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► is the consequence is that mr. Wednesday [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► and mr. Wednesday the consequences he [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► gets killed and he doesn't come back [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► because shadow is to sort of won't let [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► him come back you know Laura maybe [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► Laura's the the analog or the the [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► representation of you know that force [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► that prevents him because she's the one [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► who ultimately destroys their ability [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► Loki and he to to recreate themselves so [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► there is some adventure in anansi boys [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► there isn't it's I did like the bit [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► anansi boys when spider says later you [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► know he could have forced her to be with [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► him but he said even human be didn't [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► snow and eventually become resentful [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► even while you're forcing them to do [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► something but I didn't feel like there [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► was a resolution it suffer for it didn't [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► suffer for what he'd done I agree with [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► that spider says that he rarely learns [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► women's names and mr. Wednesday says [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► something like I've never been that [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► worried about legality and both of those [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► things kind of pass uncommented on [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► that's yeah yeah well and in in American [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► Gods you know again you've got the [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► analog of Zeus and all that and yeah so [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► I think that is very intentional where [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► is it a Nancy boys I don't know how [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► I mean it could be but you know again [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► all through the writing of it because I [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► followed his blog while he was doing it [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► and you know it's just like this is my [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► thorne-smith novel in it and for a long [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► time that was all he called it that was [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► the only detail you knew about it most [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► people are like who the hell's [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► thorne-smith and it is a little more Bly [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► than it's attitudes towards towards the [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► sex farce because you it can't bear the [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► weight right in a sex farce it's [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► ostensibly a violent act that's not [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► portrayed as such you could are a game [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► and tries to redeem it later because [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► Rosie realizes she fell in love with [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► spider not with fat Charlie a spider so [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► maybe it wasn't as unconcerned sayville [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► to guide her along but I still feel like [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► I guess that's the thing is like you [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► can't have like the fact that she [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► slapped him and that's the consequence [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► like okay well we've dealt with this [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► issue of misrepresentation and being [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► ordered to have sex let's move on you [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► know I don't know I think Damon is [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► generally very progressive and is in [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► when he does something that it's period [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► he also has something that's really [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► awful that happens to the person so did [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► you get that doesn't mean anything he [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► has awful things happen to all his [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► characters all the time the Zeus thing [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► is what struck me about it in American [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► Gods is there is that scene the most [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► notable seen is that shadow and [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► Wednesday gets served by a very young [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► waitress like a seventeen-year-old [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► waitress in a diner and he keeps talking [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► to her in this kind of gross old man [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► trying to say charming things to her and [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► then you realize at some point that he [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► has God powers and he can just make her [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► come to his hotel room and service him [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► later and I read that as being first off [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► you can't read it without thinking this [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► is bad so I judged it and I felt like [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► the author makes it clear that it's [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► something that you should judge and then [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► too I just I felt like this is this is [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► the thing about these gods is that they [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► have these powers and they abuse them [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► and it goes all the way back to stories [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► from Greek and Roman mythology about [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► God's having sex with mortals and [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► creating you know demigods and doing [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► whatever they want and not caring about [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► how it affects the mortal people so you [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► know maybe that was me bringing my own [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► read into it but in that scene American [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► Gods I mean I I felt like I see what [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► he's doing here that I am meant to be [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► horrified I am in to think of things [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► like Zeus and so it worked for me on [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► that level i didn't need I didn't need [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► more from the author in terms of he got [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► it across to me about what was happening [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► and shadow shadow doesn't do anything [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► but I feel like shadow is being his past [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► himself which is you know he kind of [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► doesn't know what he what he could do [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► but and mr. Wednesday dies forever so [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► there is that I would like to briefly [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► talk about roadside attractions yes [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► which are a huge theme in this book yes [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► this is neil gaiman coming to america [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► and being like wow here is the thing [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► that it exists but i did not know about [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► and i'm gonna work it into my book and [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► say that these are places of power in [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► American mythology the roadside [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► attraction so on the one hand I agree [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► with him that roadside attractions are [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► great house on the rock sounds amazing [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► I've paid money to go to a mystery spot [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► it was amazing things rolled uphill but [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► here's the thing about this at one point [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► they Wednesday is explaining how people [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► biltz random things in random places [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► because they were places of power and [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► shadow says so Disneyland must be really [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► powerful right and Wednesday has to say [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► maybe a little but not Disney World know [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► basically the imprint we get is the big [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► successful tourist attractions art [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► magical only the little crappy ones [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► uh-huh now this ties into I'm gonna [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► quote a short paragraph from the book he [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► rolled over in bed and closed his eyes [TS]

00:56:48 ◼   ► it occurred to him that the reason he [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► liked Wednesday and mr. Nancy and the [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► rest of them better than their [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► opposition was pretty straightforward [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► they might be dirty and cheap and their [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► food might taste like shit but at least [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► they didn't speak in cliches and he [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► would take a roadside attraction no [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► matter how cheap how crooked her house [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► said over a shopping mall any day and [TS]

00:57:05 ◼   ► you know what that really bugs me the [TS]

00:57:08 ◼   ► level of classism and looking down on [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► people that that reveals both about [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► shadow and I think about Neil Gaiman it [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► really really bothers me that first of [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► all you're saying well I'm better than [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► those stupid masses because I go to [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► places like house on the rock not [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► Disneyland oh my stars I'm gonna go [TS]

00:57:28 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► her that's not genuine it's also saying [TS]

00:57:32 ◼   ► how much better he is then the idiots [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► who built the roadside attractions both [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► of those really bother me see I can I [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► can go along with the you know going to [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► the roadside attractions because I mean [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► you know Disney World and things like [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► that are very coldly calculated whereas [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► one crazy person believed in this as an [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► idea and built this thing and so it's [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► like okay it's about faith it's about [TS]

00:57:59 ◼   ► belief it's about you know being a [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► little crazy one crazy person built [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► Disneyland David yeah with about my work [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► like Julian's has some stuff and Disney [TS]

00:58:09 ◼   ► World have no magic because yes the [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► corporate brand extension but I think [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► you're you're on the right track to with [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► the looking down on the people who built [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► the roadside attractions I don't know I [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► I read it as the chart as Neil Gaiman [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► being charmed by Americana that's how I [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► read it is then well yeah yeah he's [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► charmed by these charming poor people [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► and they're charming lack of artifice [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► he's really looking looking down on them [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► Monty there's a thing that's described [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► which is that two generations after [TS]

00:58:39 ◼   ► people how to do something out of [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► poverty it becomes an item at [TS]

00:58:41 ◼   ► restoration hardware like it's the [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► artisanal pasta that was actually made [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► because it was the only thing people [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► could afford to make two generations ago [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► and it's exactly that's like look at [TS]

00:58:51 ◼   ► this wonderful magic these yokels [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► accidentally made that's really terrific [TS]

00:58:55 ◼   ► because we can appreciate it I don't [TS]

00:58:57 ◼   ► know I I again I I think that it is not [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► looking down on them but appreciating [TS]

00:59:02 ◼   ► them as more authentic than the things [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► that are constructed to be amusements [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► and you know some of this may be some of [TS]

00:59:09 ◼   ► this may be also him trying to create a [TS]

00:59:10 ◼   ► dichotomy between the old and the new [TS]

00:59:12 ◼   ► where the new is corporate pleasure [TS]

00:59:14 ◼   ► centers that are built for everybody as [TS]

00:59:18 ◼   ► profit you know as profit generators and [TS]

00:59:20 ◼   ► the the old are people who just believed [TS]

00:59:24 ◼   ► in a thing or people found it fun and it [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► became popular kind of organically so I [TS]

00:59:29 ◼   ► didn't I didn't read it quite as bad as [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► that but I house on the rock opened four [TS]

00:59:33 ◼   ► years after disneyland both of them were [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► creation of a creative person who wanted [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► spend a lot of money creating a tourist [TS]

00:59:42 ◼   ► traction the only difference between [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► them is that Walt Disney knew what he [TS]

00:59:46 ◼   ► was doing and was not crazy also he knew [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► where to put a trick tourist attraction [TS]

00:59:51 ◼   ► the contempt in the book for for Paul [TS]

00:59:53 ◼   ► Bunyan though ties into this it's a [TS]

00:59:55 ◼   ► different aspect but but John Chapman [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► has become a liquor [TS]