The Incomparable

346: Go to the Moon


00:00:00   the incomparable number 346 April 2017 [TS]

00:00:07   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:13   incomparable this week we're going to [TS]

00:00:15   talk about books the book club back in [TS]

00:00:17   session and I have three fun people here [TS]

00:00:19   to talk about the works of NK jemisin [TS]

00:00:22   who I first discovered when her debut [TS]

00:00:25   novel one hundred thousand kingdoms was [TS]

00:00:27   nominated for the nebula award and hugo [TS]

00:00:29   award in 2010 she's written a bunch of [TS]

00:00:32   books since including some fantastic [TS]

00:00:34   books like hugo winner the fifth season [TS]

00:00:38   which we talked about in that in 2016 [TS]

00:00:40   when it was nominated for Hugo and [TS]

00:00:42   nebula joining me to talk about NK [TS]

00:00:44   jemisin specifically the fifth season [TS]

00:00:46   and the its sequel the opolis gate but [TS]

00:00:48   also more generally about her other [TS]

00:00:50   books are these wonderful people Erika [TS]

00:00:52   ensign is here hello hello happy to be [TS]

00:00:55   here I this I sense a quivering in the [TS]

00:00:58   earth that comes from the southeast it [TS]

00:01:00   must be the colossal lava powers of [TS]

00:01:02   Helene Sims hello hello how's everybody [TS]

00:01:05   doing I'm so excited to talk about my [TS]

00:01:07   favorite author I'm excited to see your [TS]

00:01:09   love of powers yeah just don't burn us [TS]

00:01:11   with your lava but the lan i will try [TS]

00:01:13   we'll see what happens and it's book [TS]

00:01:15   club it wouldn't be book club without [TS]

00:01:17   him other than all those episodes we do [TS]

00:01:18   without him it's got McNulty hi Scott hi [TS]

00:01:21   I only read the finest books so whatever [TS]

00:01:24   book if you see a book club that I'm not [TS]

00:01:26   on you know that book is not very good [TS]

00:01:28   take that meal Gaiman yeah and Stephen [TS]

00:01:30   me and Stephen yeah those those people [TS]

00:01:33   they're not going anywhere mmm their [TS]

00:01:36   failures wash up I say Scott Scott says [TS]

00:01:39   anyway no I think he means they're not [TS]

00:01:41   going anywhere cuz they're staying at [TS]

00:01:43   the top of the charts yeah it can also [TS]

00:01:44   be nice one well done well done so so NK [TS]

00:01:50   jemisin uh she is like I assume all of [TS]

00:01:55   us first heard about her wet with the [TS]

00:01:57   hundred thousand kingdoms in 2010 that [TS]

00:01:59   was the one that said that when your [TS]

00:02:00   first novel nominated as nebulae where [TS]

00:02:02   note was it later was it earlier it was [TS]

00:02:04   what fifth season was the first item yep [TS]

00:02:06   really mm-hmm Wow all right well Scott [TS]

00:02:11   and I read the hundred thousand kingdoms [TS]

00:02:12   in 2010 so there [TS]

00:02:13   take that we were when we knew her back [TS]

00:02:16   when she was just a debut novelist just [TS]

00:02:19   what she was an award with nominated [TS]

00:02:22   novelist yeah now she she is um if you [TS]

00:02:26   haven't heard of her stuff yet I mean [TS]

00:02:28   good lord you need to read this is this [TS]

00:02:30   is basically what this whole episode is [TS]

00:02:31   going to be which is you need to read [TS]

00:02:33   the novels of NK jemisin because every [TS]

00:02:35   time I read one of her novels aye aye [TS]

00:02:37   aye sit sit upright and I go oh my god [TS]

00:02:41   she is really great at writing novels [TS]

00:02:43   like busy really good and then I like I [TS]

00:02:46   go a while between novels and I'm like [TS]

00:02:48   oh yeah and king gemini should get to [TS]

00:02:49   that and then I finally get to one of [TS]

00:02:51   her books and I read it and I think why [TS]

00:02:52   have I not read all of her books because [TS]

00:02:54   she's so great like every time I am [TS]

00:02:56   reminded how good a writer she is and [TS]

00:02:58   then quite honestly the next book or two [TS]

00:03:00   I read after I read one of her books I'm [TS]

00:03:02   a little disappointed cuz almost without [TS]

00:03:04   fail that next writer is never as good a [TS]

00:03:07   writer as she is she is she is one of I [TS]

00:03:09   think one of the best in the business [TS]

00:03:11   right now in writing science fiction [TS]

00:03:13   fantasy novels you know I feel like I [TS]

00:03:15   completely agree with you but I feel [TS]

00:03:17   like her writing is is so good and I [TS]

00:03:21   don't want to say dense because dense [TS]

00:03:23   sounds negative but whatever the [TS]

00:03:24   positive version of dense is is it makes [TS]

00:03:28   it so that so that reading her books is [TS]

00:03:30   not it's not like a smooth and easy [TS]

00:03:35   fluffy sort of a read I'm not saying [TS]

00:03:38   it's difficult I'm certainly not [TS]

00:03:39   difficult but it takes a lot more sort [TS]

00:03:41   of brain power she doesn't read like [TS]

00:03:42   quick quick read books right she's yeah [TS]

00:03:45   you have to concentrate to really to [TS]

00:03:47   catch all of the amazing things that she [TS]

00:03:49   is doing with language and with [TS]

00:03:50   character with setting world building [TS]

00:03:52   and all that kind of stuff so i think i [TS]

00:03:54   have spread her books out quite a bit in [TS]

00:03:57   part just because i need more time to [TS]

00:04:00   chew on all of that stuff and it feels [TS]

00:04:03   like it's it's like exercise like when [TS]

00:04:05   i'm doing it it's like yeah this feels [TS]

00:04:07   really great and afterwards i'm so happy [TS]

00:04:09   to have done it but beforehand like I [TS]

00:04:12   never actually you know I'm not terribly [TS]

00:04:14   looking forward to exercise most of the [TS]

00:04:16   time so so that's sort of I think about [TS]

00:04:18   her books as you know an even better [TS]

00:04:22   version of exercise from [TS]

00:04:24   let's go side I do not feel that way [TS]

00:04:26   while I'm exercising although she feel [TS]

00:04:28   the way after I of it okay i will say [TS]

00:04:31   that but I do as I'm reading that's why [TS]

00:04:33   NK jemisin is not like exercise for me [TS]

00:04:36   because I enjoy it as I'm doing it [TS]

00:04:38   although much like Jason I don't like [TS]

00:04:42   devour her books one by one there's [TS]

00:04:44   actually I think there's one book of [TS]

00:04:46   hers I have not read yet and it's it's [TS]

00:04:49   sitting next to me actually but I just [TS]

00:04:50   haven't read it I was all going to read [TS]

00:04:53   it but then the new ian MacDonald book [TS]

00:04:54   came out so I had to read that first but [TS]

00:04:57   had to you it has 14 priority some moral [TS]

00:04:59   imperative he is one of my favorite [TS]

00:05:02   authors NK jemisin also one of my [TS]

00:05:05   favorite authors but I think he nudges [TS]

00:05:07   her out but they both share the thing [TS]

00:05:09   they share in common is that they write [TS]

00:05:12   complex layered stories and they they [TS]

00:05:15   get so much worldbuilding I think out of [TS]

00:05:18   a small amount of writing so you know I [TS]

00:05:23   just Marvel as I'm reading both of them [TS]

00:05:24   about how much they get with such [TS]

00:05:27   economy of language and they do it so [TS]

00:05:30   well and you know Jason you and I were [TS]

00:05:32   talking about John Scalzi and about how [TS]

00:05:35   you know he's he's a good writer nothing [TS]

00:05:37   against John Scalzi he's an entertaining [TS]

00:05:39   writer he writes books that are quick to [TS]

00:05:41   read they always have fun as I'm reading [TS]

00:05:43   them but after i am done with him I've [TS]

00:05:46   never had that moment where I think that [TS]

00:05:48   was a really great book but every time [TS]

00:05:51   i've read an NK jemisin book I I think [TS]

00:05:54   that was a really great book I felt that [TS]

00:05:57   way about scalzi after the first in the [TS]

00:05:59   old man's war series i was like this was [TS]

00:06:01   a really great book but with MK jemison [TS]

00:06:04   i did so I I hadn't heard of her until [TS]

00:06:08   we did the Hugo nominated novels last [TS]

00:06:11   year and I read the fifth season and I [TS]

00:06:14   kept gushing about it got my husband to [TS]

00:06:16   read it and then as soon as the obelisk [TS]

00:06:19   gate came out we both blew through it [TS]

00:06:21   and in the kind of the interim between [TS]

00:06:24   but when I read the fifth season when [TS]

00:06:27   the obelisk 8 came out i read the [TS]

00:06:31   hundred thousand kingdoms like just one [TS]

00:06:33   after another so I'm like eric has [TS]

00:06:35   experience of it being kind of like [TS]

00:06:37   exercise where it's like [TS]

00:06:38   rewarding kind of as you're doing and [TS]

00:06:40   after you've done it I was like no I [TS]

00:06:41   need more from her and so I just kept [TS]

00:06:44   reading it and at this point I've read [TS]

00:06:45   the fifth season three times obelisk 8i [TS]

00:06:49   think twice in in between reading other [TS]

00:06:53   things too I just I love them she's such [TS]

00:06:56   a you know we were talking about economy [TS]

00:06:59   of language but she's also it's just [TS]

00:07:01   this beautiful poetic writing and I [TS]

00:07:04   don't have to work to understand what's [TS]

00:07:06   getting and going on in her novels like [TS]

00:07:08   I do like I'm reading nine fox gambit [TS]

00:07:11   right now and I'm like five percent [TS]

00:07:13   through it and it is so hard I have no [TS]

00:07:16   idea what's going on this universe is so [TS]

00:07:19   very different from from what I'm used [TS]

00:07:21   to in so like that work I have to do of [TS]

00:07:24   getting into things and I don't have to [TS]

00:07:27   do with her books as much she's I feel [TS]

00:07:29   like she's got a gentler ramp up an [TS]

00:07:32   introduction into these universes than [TS]

00:07:34   other science fiction and fantasy novels [TS]

00:07:36   I have but they are dense like there [TS]

00:07:38   there's a lot to them they're complex [TS]

00:07:40   but I don't have to work like I do with [TS]

00:07:42   other science fiction and fantasy books [TS]

00:07:44   one of the things I reach about NK [TS]

00:07:46   Jefferson is your you bring up nine fox [TS]

00:07:50   gambit which I read which I thought was [TS]

00:07:52   fantastic one thing it does not do is [TS]

00:07:53   that kind of moment where there's an [TS]

00:07:55   info dump or as you know Bob that [TS]

00:07:57   explains the rules of the language are [TS]

00:08:00   of the world I should say so ropes to [TS]

00:08:02   the book you have very you have almost [TS]

00:08:04   no idea what's going on which I like and [TS]

00:08:07   I really liked that book spoil alert for [TS]

00:08:08   the nebula nominated podcast that we do [TS]

00:08:11   but she also in as particularly the [TS]

00:08:14   fifth season and the obligate I feel [TS]

00:08:16   like she throws us into this world the [TS]

00:08:18   story is happening she doesn't take a [TS]

00:08:21   lot of time to tell us okay there were [TS]

00:08:23   people who can you know control the [TS]

00:08:25   earth with their their brains and these [TS]

00:08:28   by the way these obelisks were from a [TS]

00:08:30   past civilization and they do stuff and [TS]

00:08:33   you just kind of have you learned it as [TS]

00:08:35   it's happening which I like yeah it is I [TS]

00:08:38   think about this a lot when I'm reading [TS]

00:08:40   science fiction books because obviously [TS]

00:08:42   if you're not setting it in a world that [TS]

00:08:44   we know you have to establish the world [TS]

00:08:46   and it is hard to do that in a way that [TS]

00:08:50   doesn't come across as [TS]

00:08:51   as you know Bob or completely baffling [TS]

00:08:54   that is a hard line to walk because as a [TS]

00:08:56   writer these are right you know these [TS]

00:08:58   writers have to very carefully like [TS]

00:09:01   structure the stories so that [TS]

00:09:03   information is given to you so that you [TS]

00:09:06   can figure it out and if you're too far [TS]

00:09:08   in one level it says you know Bob and [TS]

00:09:10   you're too far the other direction and [TS]

00:09:11   it's like you know nfm or I mean there [TS]

00:09:15   are a few other examples that I can [TS]

00:09:16   think of where a lot of people say oh I [TS]

00:09:18   just didn't even understand what was [TS]

00:09:19   going on like what a lien said about [TS]

00:09:21   nine Fox gambit right and and so if you [TS]

00:09:23   can if you can nail that it is a there's [TS]

00:09:25   a really great a bit of work and it's [TS]

00:09:27   not like NK Jameson's work is in the [TS]

00:09:31   regular world right like she sets up [TS]

00:09:33   these very specific sequences of events [TS]

00:09:37   and you're like I don't know where this [TS]

00:09:39   is and what's the setting and is this [TS]

00:09:40   even earth the answer is it's not and [TS]

00:09:42   how we're probably not and yes and you [TS]

00:09:46   have to or is it who knows but you have [TS]

00:09:48   to figure figure it out but she does [TS]

00:09:50   pull you along I know some people get [TS]

00:09:52   frustrated when you don't give [TS]

00:09:54   everything to all the information to [TS]

00:09:56   them up front right there like Idol I [TS]

00:09:57   don't understand I see that on TV shows [TS]

00:09:59   to where people are like but we don't [TS]

00:10:01   even know why that's the way it is it's [TS]

00:10:03   like yeah that's the point is it's a [TS]

00:10:05   mystery but you know she does it in a [TS]

00:10:08   way that isn't frustrating it's just [TS]

00:10:09   like you're learning it's very artful I [TS]

00:10:11   i I'm really impressed because these are [TS]

00:10:13   super weird worlds that she's created [TS]

00:10:16   the hundred thousand kingdoms at [TS]

00:10:18   inheritance trilogy a very strange world [TS]

00:10:21   that she's built but you figure it out [TS]

00:10:23   as you go and likewise with the the [TS]

00:10:25   fifth season universe it's it's you [TS]

00:10:27   figure it out especially since in the [TS]

00:10:29   fifth season it's a it's sort of [TS]

00:10:31   happening at three different times at [TS]

00:10:33   once there are three different points of [TS]

00:10:36   view that are going on and so you're [TS]

00:10:39   learning about the world in like in [TS]

00:10:40   these different places in different [TS]

00:10:42   times so you're getting kind of a vaster [TS]

00:10:44   picture of it than you would if you were [TS]

00:10:46   learning through the eyes of like just a [TS]

00:10:48   single character living through their [TS]

00:10:50   life in one in one place alright you [TS]

00:10:52   know one journey so it's but I [TS]

00:10:54   appreciate that we are going to spoil [TS]

00:10:56   some of these books now so if you're [TS]

00:10:58   completely a completely spoiler averse [TS]

00:11:01   and yet listening to this episode I [TS]

00:11:02   would say you might want to go read [TS]

00:11:04   especially [TS]

00:11:05   you should read the very least fifth [TS]

00:11:08   season and then and then come back [TS]

00:11:10   because I'm about to say something that [TS]

00:11:12   is kind of a spoiler but to Erica's [TS]

00:11:14   point about the time frames one of the [TS]

00:11:16   things I really love about the fifth [TS]

00:11:18   season is that you're seeing a story [TS]

00:11:21   told in three different the three [TS]

00:11:23   different stories and it's unclear I [TS]

00:11:27   mean it's clear that they must be in [TS]

00:11:28   different time zones because one of the [TS]

00:11:30   time zones is sort of the end of the [TS]

00:11:31   world and the other two don't seem to [TS]

00:11:34   reflect that but it's unclear exactly [TS]

00:11:36   what you're seeing and then as it [TS]

00:11:39   becomes clearer you start to wonder if [TS]

00:11:42   the same character is if it's the same [TS]

00:11:45   character in all three time zones and if [TS]

00:11:47   that what you're really seeing is this [TS]

00:11:49   woman's life told out of sequence but I [TS]

00:11:52   feel like you can Intuit that this is [TS]

00:11:54   one of those artful things you can [TS]

00:11:56   Intuit that fairly early but you're not [TS]

00:11:58   giving confirmation of it until quite [TS]

00:11:59   late and I think that's kind of [TS]

00:12:01   brilliant that you don't know you know [TS]

00:12:04   whether you think you know what you [TS]

00:12:06   think is true is actually true until you [TS]

00:12:08   get fairly close to the end and when [TS]

00:12:10   it's revealed that it really is three [TS]

00:12:12   very different phases of this one [TS]

00:12:13   woman's life which is it's four [TS]

00:12:15   different names even which i think is a [TS]

00:12:16   tricky thing I didn't pick up on that [TS]

00:12:19   until um so I listened the last time I [TS]

00:12:23   read um was actually I finished it this [TS]

00:12:26   morning so uh but I listened to it and I [TS]

00:12:29   was just kind of puttering around the [TS]

00:12:32   house and it came to that that first [TS]

00:12:34   reveal about um cyan and desmaya being [TS]

00:12:39   the same person and I remember reading [TS]

00:12:41   that for the first time on and then you [TS]

00:12:44   know and Justin was kind of standing [TS]

00:12:46   beside me when that happened and we [TS]

00:12:48   looked at each other we were like that [TS]

00:12:49   was really a cool moment for us the [TS]

00:12:52   second reveal wasn't as much like by [TS]

00:12:55   that point I was like oh yeah this is [TS]

00:12:56   you know this is her even later on but [TS]

00:12:59   she does such a great job of switching [TS]

00:13:02   between first-person and third-person [TS]

00:13:04   and telling these stories and then they [TS]

00:13:07   converge and they make sense and it's [TS]

00:13:10   just beautiful it's just it's art I just [TS]

00:13:14   I can't call it anything else I just [TS]

00:13:15   thought it was so artful and so [TS]

00:13:17   delightful I have to say it is it is [TS]

00:13:20   I mentioned this on the nebula episode [TS]

00:13:21   last year it is gutsy of her to start a [TS]

00:13:23   book with the death of a child with a [TS]

00:13:25   murder of a child because that that is [TS]

00:13:27   what happens at the beginning of the [TS]

00:13:28   book and that's that's like the author [TS]

00:13:31   just throwing down like well are you [TS]

00:13:33   going to come with with me or not on [TS]

00:13:34   this story because it starts out so [TS]

00:13:36   brutally but it really does inform sort [TS]

00:13:40   of like the journey of the character and [TS]

00:13:42   sort of retro actively why you know you [TS]

00:13:44   discover things about her later that she [TS]

00:13:46   did earlier that make you I mean that [TS]

00:13:50   it's almost like a holographic [TS]

00:13:51   storytelling right because things that [TS]

00:13:53   you're seeing because of the way she's [TS]

00:13:54   chosen the time sequences you are you [TS]

00:13:58   are judging her based on something that [TS]

00:14:00   happened here and then later in the book [TS]

00:14:02   you realize oh that's because of this [TS]

00:14:04   thing that happened earlier once you [TS]

00:14:06   realize that all three timelines are are [TS]

00:14:08   actually her at different phases in her [TS]

00:14:10   life it so this is a I mean there's a [TS]

00:14:12   recent one the award right it is is [TS]

00:14:15   pretty a pretty spectacular bit of work [TS]

00:14:17   I should explain by the way for those [TS]

00:14:19   who are still with us but don't know [TS]

00:14:20   what back we're talking about a little [TS]

00:14:23   bit about this this is a world that is [TS]

00:14:24   set sort of a a series of apocalypses [TS]

00:14:27   the idea here is that every now and then [TS]

00:14:29   the fifth season comes along which is a [TS]

00:14:30   season of destruction and there are it's [TS]

00:14:33   a weird world where they're like gems [TS]

00:14:35   floating in the sky and there's there's [TS]

00:14:37   old technology that it still exists from [TS]

00:14:39   previous apocalypses and there's no moon [TS]

00:14:42   there's no moon which is hinted at a [TS]

00:14:45   couple of points and I kept thinking to [TS]

00:14:46   myself hmm I think this is something [TS]

00:14:49   about the moon not expecting the last [TS]

00:14:51   line of the of the first book of the [TS]

00:14:53   fifth season to be the payoff of like [TS]

00:14:56   that there's the this is all about the [TS]

00:14:58   fact that there's no moon what does that [TS]

00:14:59   mean but but as was mentioned earlier [TS]

00:15:03   there is this whole earth power thing [TS]

00:15:06   where its people with lava powers or [TS]

00:15:08   earthquake powers and they can still [TS]

00:15:09   earthquakes and they can create [TS]

00:15:10   earthquakes and the most powerful of [TS]

00:15:12   these origins or rogas depending on [TS]

00:15:15   whether you're slandering them or not is [TS]

00:15:17   they can they can cause the world to end [TS]

00:15:20   basically because that's what happens in [TS]

00:15:22   the prologue of the fifth season is that [TS]

00:15:24   somebody destroys the world who we then [TS]

00:15:26   meet later and discover quite what led [TS]

00:15:29   him to that moment of [TS]

00:15:31   during a large part of the world asunder [TS]

00:15:33   and it's all III don't mean I've used [TS]

00:15:37   this with people to explain what this [TS]

00:15:38   book is like is and I don't mean it to [TS]

00:15:41   be flippin I'm not trying to joke here [TS]

00:15:43   I'm not trying to run down the book it [TS]

00:15:45   is a very serious carefully constructed [TS]

00:15:48   book that on another level strikes me as [TS]

00:15:50   being like one of the best x-men stories [TS]

00:15:53   ever told because these horrid jeans are [TS]

00:15:56   like kind of their kind of mutants and [TS]

00:15:58   there and they're treated badly but they [TS]

00:16:00   have powers and the question is like [TS]

00:16:02   this there's a social structure that's [TS]

00:16:04   meant to give give them you know the the [TS]

00:16:06   society is supposed to control them [TS]

00:16:07   completely but do they rise up against [TS]

00:16:10   it but you know there but they're [TS]

00:16:11   dangerous and they can hurt people and [TS]

00:16:13   it is that kind of a story but you would [TS]

00:16:15   never think that just you know on first [TS]

00:16:18   glance because of the way that the story [TS]

00:16:19   is told but I did appreciate that that [TS]

00:16:22   you know like every now and then I read [TS]

00:16:24   a book and I'm like oh this is kind of [TS]

00:16:25   like the x-men in a you know it maybe I [TS]

00:16:28   read a lot of comics but like the rook [TS]

00:16:30   actually me um the rook feels like the [TS]

00:16:32   x-men 2 it's the same thing where it's [TS]

00:16:34   like these wack the group of people with [TS]

00:16:36   wacky powers but here it's the [TS]

00:16:37   oppression that gets to me the fact that [TS]

00:16:39   these these incredibly powerful people [TS]

00:16:40   are treated very badly even though [TS]

00:16:43   they're so powerful by people who fear [TS]

00:16:46   them and that that definitely gave me [TS]

00:16:47   that vibe and it's one of the things I [TS]

00:16:49   love about these books is that the the [TS]

00:16:51   origins are really really badly treated [TS]

00:16:54   and it's like everybody's afraid of them [TS]

00:16:57   for good reason but everybody's afraid [TS]

00:16:59   of them yeah they're brought to like [TS]

00:17:00   basically voluntary slavery there the [TS]

00:17:04   guardians are sort of their jailers but [TS]

00:17:07   it's not a typical jail because you know [TS]

00:17:10   they live in dormitories and they go to [TS]

00:17:11   classes and stuff like that they're just [TS]

00:17:13   sort of brainwashed into into thinking [TS]

00:17:16   that they are cursed and terrible people [TS]

00:17:19   because of these powers that they have [TS]

00:17:20   and anything bad that happens in the [TS]

00:17:22   world is probably going to be their [TS]

00:17:24   fault so they need to be watched at all [TS]

00:17:25   times unless they have lots and lots of [TS]

00:17:27   rings and are very powerful apparently [TS]

00:17:29   except not really as I learn later or [TS]

00:17:32   you could you could say imagine sorry [TS]

00:17:34   for this Scott but imagine if if in [TS]

00:17:36   harry potter instead of yay I get to go [TS]

00:17:39   to school and then do a magic job it's [TS]

00:17:40   like you will go to this school and then [TS]

00:17:42   you will do this job but the muggles [TS]

00:17:44   we'll be in charge of you all the time [TS]

00:17:45   it's that same idea you find out that [TS]

00:17:47   you're a very special person but the bad [TS]

00:17:50   news is you are going to be treated [TS]

00:17:51   horribly and have no choice in your life [TS]

00:17:53   because you because you are special and [TS]

00:17:55   that that's the ugly that's not what [TS]

00:17:57   happens in Harry Potter but it is what [TS]

00:17:59   happens in the x-men so that's why I'm [TS]

00:18:01   sticking with my x-men Theory here yeah [TS]

00:18:03   so the the fifth season tells the story [TS]

00:18:06   of this one character in the three time [TS]

00:18:07   frames and we meet a lot of interesting [TS]

00:18:09   characters along the way especially [TS]

00:18:10   alabaster who is named satirically by [TS]

00:18:14   people as alabaster because he is the [TS]

00:18:16   darkest skin that anybody's seen one of [TS]

00:18:18   the things that I think is the case in [TS]

00:18:20   the in these books is that it's very [TS]

00:18:23   clear there there are that a lot of the [TS]

00:18:26   people there are a lot of different skin [TS]

00:18:27   tones in the books and she does make a [TS]

00:18:28   point it's not it doesn't come across as [TS]

00:18:29   anything other than matter of fact but [TS]

00:18:32   you do kind of notice and she does a lot [TS]

00:18:33   of inversions to where I believe in both [TS]

00:18:35   of her novel series she talks about [TS]

00:18:37   people with light skin as being like [TS]

00:18:38   from I think of a hundred thousand [TS]

00:18:40   kingdoms the light skinned people are [TS]

00:18:42   from like the equator and and and the [TS]

00:18:44   darker skinned people are at the poles [TS]

00:18:46   and she just is a lot of playing around [TS]

00:18:48   with issues of race and things like that [TS]

00:18:50   but alabaster is is the darkest skin [TS]

00:18:53   that anybody's ever seen and so that of [TS]

00:18:55   course the column alabaster and he's a [TS]

00:18:57   fascinating character who you think is [TS]

00:18:58   you've never you're never gonna see him [TS]

00:19:00   again after what happens in the first [TS]

00:19:01   book but no he's a character in the [TS]

00:19:03   whole second book too mm-hmm quite an [TS]

00:19:06   important character too I mean he's sort [TS]

00:19:08   of the part of the found family that [TS]

00:19:10   that she sort of create creates around [TS]

00:19:13   her or maybe draws to herself right the [TS]

00:19:16   main character whose name at that time [TS]

00:19:18   is Essen right yes okay I get mixed up [TS]

00:19:22   because she had three different names in [TS]

00:19:24   the first book so it's that's the one [TS]

00:19:26   that sort of carries over into the [TS]

00:19:27   second book the obolus gate is funny [TS]

00:19:30   because it's um it's a it's what happens [TS]

00:19:33   after the world ends because alabaster [TS]

00:19:36   has basically destroyed the main city [TS]

00:19:37   and and and created this it's going to [TS]

00:19:40   be sort of unlivable conditions in this [TS]

00:19:42   world for so long that perhaps nobody [TS]

00:19:44   will survive it and so where do you go [TS]

00:19:47   from there and the answer is that there [TS]

00:19:49   there are other other forces at play [TS]

00:19:52   here there are these you know basically [TS]

00:19:54   like rock people [TS]

00:19:57   who who live in donators they have the [TS]

00:20:00   stone eaters who live in the ground and [TS]

00:20:02   and you get the sense that there is this [TS]

00:20:04   this this battle happening on a much [TS]

00:20:06   higher level what happened to the moon [TS]

00:20:08   why are these gems floating in the air [TS]

00:20:12   and turns out that they are machines [TS]

00:20:15   that can be kind of like tuned by the [TS]

00:20:17   powers of the origins and we spend a lot [TS]

00:20:19   of time in obelisk aid inside a like a [TS]

00:20:23   geode where they're in this like [TS]

00:20:24   underground city where where alabaster [TS]

00:20:28   is there but he's dying and and [TS]

00:20:31   literally turning to stone right and [TS]

00:20:34   being eaten by a stone eater yeah yeah [TS]

00:20:37   you not at all creepy or is it creepy or [TS]

00:20:41   is it sort of beautiful I don't know [TS]

00:20:43   creepy I'm firmly auntie creepy all [TS]

00:20:48   right why not both are Mary our main [TS]

00:20:49   character with her many names um essen [TS]

00:20:52   in in obligate her her status as a [TS]

00:20:57   mother as really comes to the fore in [TS]

00:20:59   the second book which is that we saw her [TS]

00:21:01   her son killed at the beginning of the [TS]

00:21:04   first book and and and what happens is [TS]

00:21:06   her husband takes her their daughter and [TS]

00:21:09   leaves and so she's she she discovers [TS]

00:21:12   her son is dead and her daughter is gone [TS]

00:21:13   and her husband killed the son but kept [TS]

00:21:16   the daughter and in obligate we finally [TS]

00:21:19   get to see what happens with her husband [TS]

00:21:22   and daughter and that's told so instead [TS]

00:21:25   of having the parallel stories of the [TS]

00:21:26   her three timelines we get the parallel [TS]

00:21:28   stories of mother and daughter and the [TS]

00:21:30   fact that that like mother like daughter [TS]

00:21:31   she has a she has a some power that that [TS]

00:21:36   is perhaps potentially quite important [TS]

00:21:39   to what happens to this to the world and [TS]

00:21:42   whether the whether the world can can [TS]

00:21:44   survive or not but I like that I like [TS]

00:21:45   that we finally got I kind of wrote that [TS]

00:21:48   off as something we wouldn't see very [TS]

00:21:49   much of and instead an obolus gate it's [TS]

00:21:51   like she just put it aside and said [TS]

00:21:53   we'll get back to the father and the [TS]

00:21:54   daughter I'm gonna get there but but [TS]

00:21:56   you're gonna have to wait until book too [TS]

00:21:57   it's kind of like in in the first book [TS]

00:21:59   you have as you are saying the idea of [TS]

00:22:02   the oppressed origenes and that whole [TS]

00:22:05   idea sort of on a societal level its [TS]

00:22:08   writ large and [TS]

00:22:09   then we focus in on that very same thing [TS]

00:22:12   in a second book because we watch the [TS]

00:22:14   journey with with her daughter NASA and [TS]

00:22:17   the father Geeta I believe is his name [TS]

00:22:19   and you know he is so very very filled [TS]

00:22:23   with these prejudices that he's been [TS]

00:22:25   brought up with that he killed his own [TS]

00:22:27   son at the beginning of the at the [TS]

00:22:28   beginning of the first book and he you [TS]

00:22:30   know rescues his daughter who was the [TS]

00:22:32   good child because he at first doesn't [TS]

00:22:34   know that she has powers and then you [TS]

00:22:36   get to watch the evolution of that [TS]

00:22:39   father-daughter relationship which is I [TS]

00:22:41   mean she's such a daddy's girl at the [TS]

00:22:42   beginning of the book and she's hiding [TS]

00:22:45   her power from him because she loves him [TS]

00:22:47   so much and then you get to see the [TS]

00:22:48   evolution of that that relationship as [TS]

00:22:51   she can't hide it anymore and and how he [TS]

00:22:54   really has some some you know sort of [TS]

00:22:57   friesian going on in his head when he's [TS]

00:22:59   trying to keep these two thoughts in his [TS]

00:23:01   head that this is the girl he loves so [TS]

00:23:02   much and yet she's got these terrible [TS]

00:23:04   powers so she must be evil and and that [TS]

00:23:06   ends up driving a big part of the plot [TS]

00:23:07   towards the end the book clean after [TS]

00:23:09   reading the first book how did Avila [TS]

00:23:12   skate hit you right because obviously [TS]

00:23:14   fifth season really you loved it and it [TS]

00:23:17   jumped out it I did so what was your [TS]

00:23:19   reaction to the sequel it's that's a [TS]

00:23:20   hard act to follow right it's a really [TS]

00:23:23   hard act to follow I liked it quite a [TS]

00:23:26   bit i wish that I'd had more time so [TS]

00:23:28   that i could have reread it again and [TS]

00:23:30   because what i found is that i remember [TS]

00:23:32   a lot more I felt like the first book [TS]

00:23:35   had a lot more memorable moments in it [TS]

00:23:36   then the second book does in the second [TS]

00:23:39   book it's been oh gosh since it came out [TS]

00:23:42   so that's what close to six months ago [TS]

00:23:43   since I've read that and so I I'm [TS]

00:23:46   finding that like I've got little [TS]

00:23:47   flashes of things that happen like more [TS]

00:23:50   with the obelisks more of the [TS]

00:23:52   father-daughter story and I remember the [TS]

00:23:55   end kind of well but other than that [TS]

00:23:58   it's kind of it's kind of a blur so I [TS]

00:24:01   wouldn't say that it falls into I've [TS]

00:24:03   heard a lot of people you know that the [TS]

00:24:05   stereotypical track trap of a second [TS]

00:24:07   novel like it so it's just bridging the [TS]

00:24:09   story and I felt like it did that some [TS]

00:24:11   but I do feel like it's got a lot of [TS]

00:24:13   good solid ground on its own and because [TS]

00:24:16   there are some second books that I just [TS]

00:24:18   don't remember at all [TS]

00:24:20   and so I enjoyed it quite a bit but and [TS]

00:24:24   a lot of that I think is just [TS]

00:24:25   appreciation for jemison as a writer and [TS]

00:24:28   going back and having those moments [TS]

00:24:29   where I read a sentence as a writer and [TS]

00:24:31   editor and I'm like wow that was pretty [TS]

00:24:35   i'm going to read that again and so [TS]

00:24:37   maybe if she weren't such a lyrical [TS]

00:24:41   writer i wouldn't it also wouldn't have [TS]

00:24:44   stuck with me as much as it has but i [TS]

00:24:45   think i think it's really solid [TS]

00:24:47   especially you know for for a second [TS]

00:24:49   book yeah the third book is coming out [TS]

00:24:51   this summer so people can look for it I [TS]

00:24:54   the one of the one of the things that I [TS]

00:24:57   really like about this these books when [TS]

00:24:58   I think about it is I think about the [TS]

00:25:02   the I keep mentioning them these gems in [TS]

00:25:05   the sky these things that are floating [TS]

00:25:07   in the sky which in the first book [TS]

00:25:09   initially seems just like colorful world [TS]

00:25:12   building of like imagery like oh this is [TS]

00:25:16   a magical place where people can create [TS]

00:25:18   earthquakes and there were gyms floating [TS]

00:25:20   in the sky and it turns out that it's [TS]

00:25:22   way more complicated than that and [TS]

00:25:25   there's a gem that's down in the mud and [TS]

00:25:27   they try to lift it up and it ends up [TS]

00:25:30   you know causing a disaster and all of [TS]

00:25:33   these things that happen and then the [TS]

00:25:35   moon is that great thread right where [TS]

00:25:37   where I feel like there should be [TS]

00:25:39   something in the sky but it's not there [TS]

00:25:41   and and in the end that's the question [TS]

00:25:43   in the second book you realize that [TS]

00:25:45   where the series is going with its fun [TS]

00:25:47   with its its climax is it's all about [TS]

00:25:50   the moon it's about how the moon is [TS]

00:25:52   apparently correct me if I'm wrong [TS]

00:25:54   because it has been a little while since [TS]

00:25:55   I wrote it to the moon it suggested is a [TS]

00:25:58   stabilizing feature of this whether it's [TS]

00:26:01   earth or not it's a stabilizing feature [TS]

00:26:03   of this planet and since since some [TS]

00:26:06   magical something happen to knock it out [TS]

00:26:08   of orbit that's why there have been all [TS]

00:26:10   these disasters and so now the big plan [TS]

00:26:13   is that they need to catch the moon they [TS]

00:26:17   need to beating to the moon's coming [TS]

00:26:19   back around it's apparently in an orbit [TS]

00:26:20   that brings it back around every so [TS]

00:26:22   often and that all of this has been [TS]

00:26:24   leading to that moment and it's such an [TS]

00:26:25   just a ridiculous thing that it's just [TS]

00:26:28   out like I cannot believe she just did [TS]

00:26:30   that which is we're gonna you know we're [TS]

00:26:32   going to use all our powers this [TS]

00:26:34   what we're gonna do we're gonna get that [TS]

00:26:35   we're gonna get that moon back what it's [TS]

00:26:37   and that's how the second book ends so [TS]

00:26:40   um yeah the moon the moon is coming back [TS]

00:26:43   I think is what they say at the very end [TS]

00:26:45   of the Ovilus gate so we have to get it [TS]

00:26:46   that's that's the thing that I love [TS]

00:26:49   about this book too is that it really [TS]

00:26:51   did cast so many different shades of [TS]

00:26:54   light on the first book and the things [TS]

00:26:56   that I already thought that I knew about [TS]

00:26:58   the first book it widened the world and [TS]

00:27:01   changed change the way I saw things in a [TS]

00:27:03   number of ways it the moon was certainly [TS]

00:27:05   one of them and the obelisks being such [TS]

00:27:07   an important important piece of the [TS]

00:27:10   puzzle and also even just some of the [TS]

00:27:12   characters and stuff like you said Jason [TS]

00:27:14   I wasn't I didn't really think that we [TS]

00:27:16   were going to find out anything about [TS]

00:27:17   her daughter and then suddenly we not [TS]

00:27:19   only find out the the journey of her [TS]

00:27:21   daughter but that that she may or may [TS]

00:27:23   not in the third book have a really big [TS]

00:27:26   role to play in this catching the moon [TS]

00:27:28   sort of thing and then also we find out [TS]

00:27:31   in I think it's in the second book we [TS]

00:27:33   find out that when when cyan i believe [TS]

00:27:37   is her name at the time when she lifts [TS]

00:27:39   that first broken obelisk out of the mud [TS]

00:27:41   she for a brief moment she sees somebody [TS]

00:27:44   inside of it and we don't find out until [TS]

00:27:46   the second book that that's somebody [TS]

00:27:48   that she saw inside of it ends up being [TS]

00:27:50   this same little boy rock stone shooters [TS]

00:27:56   don't younger Noah who follows her [TS]

00:27:58   around all the way through the first [TS]

00:28:00   book and then into the second book and [TS]

00:28:01   right essen like we didn't even know [TS]

00:28:03   that that was the same same creature [TS]

00:28:05   until the second book and I'm like oh my [TS]

00:28:07   oh my god that's just it's another [TS]

00:28:10   mind-blowing moment character-wise to [TS]

00:28:12   this is all very carefully plotted right [TS]

00:28:14   I mean she obviously hadn't written all [TS]

00:28:15   three books before the first book was [TS]

00:28:17   released but clearly the story and the [TS]

00:28:19   details were there be a just it is it is [TS]

00:28:23   completely consistent it doesn't feel [TS]

00:28:24   like it's one book and the fifth season [TS]

00:28:26   can be enjoyed on its own without [TS]

00:28:29   reading the second book it doesn't feel [TS]

00:28:30   like you were sent you know you bought [TS]

00:28:32   half a book and a coupon for the rest of [TS]

00:28:34   it but yet it is I really appreciate the [TS]

00:28:38   feeling of planning like she knows what [TS]

00:28:39   story she's telling and and in obelisk 8 [TS]

00:28:42   you can see oh okay like a lot of the [TS]

00:28:45   stephanopoulos gate was totally set up [TS]

00:28:46   in [TS]

00:28:47   fifth season abs it absolutely was was [TS]

00:28:50   set there which is which is great I like [TS]

00:28:52   to see that I gives me confidence to [TS]

00:28:53   know that that the writer of the book [TS]

00:28:55   I'm reading has the confidence to and [TS]

00:28:57   the planning ability to do all of that [TS]

00:28:59   so that i can I can just read it and not [TS]

00:29:01   be afraid that they're gonna let me down [TS]

00:29:02   yeah I'd love to know how she like what [TS]

00:29:07   her specific process is for this so I [TS]

00:29:09   know you know I've heard like Patrick [TS]

00:29:11   Rothfuss talk about outlining books and [TS]

00:29:13   that kind of thing so is that something [TS]

00:29:15   that she did I haven't read a lot about [TS]

00:29:16   her her process but there are those [TS]

00:29:19   threads that she's carrying through and [TS]

00:29:21   a lot of them are like small little [TS]

00:29:23   things that I didn't notice until the [TS]

00:29:25   second read through and I was like oh [TS]

00:29:27   yeah that you know that happens well I [TS]

00:29:30   guess the third read through that [TS]

00:29:30   happens to connect this thing in the [TS]

00:29:33   second book but it's not profound and I [TS]

00:29:36   can't think of an example off the top of [TS]

00:29:37   my head but it's just it's a beautiful [TS]

00:29:40   beautifully woven and I wonder how how [TS]

00:29:43   she's planning that is she carrying it [TS]

00:29:45   in her head did she write an outline or [TS]

00:29:48   is it just all coming together and she's [TS]

00:29:49   like oh yeah you know she just knows you [TS]

00:29:52   know she dreamed it all and knows all of [TS]

00:29:54   these details i don't know i love the [TS]

00:29:57   idea of her just dreaming at all because [TS]

00:29:59   and then waking up and Giada get down [TS]

00:30:01   yeah totally what else should we say [TS]

00:30:03   about a fifth season and obelisk eight [TS]

00:30:06   um you know it's not completed but it's [TS]

00:30:08   coming out soon with the next part the [TS]

00:30:10   summer i wasn't i felt that obelisk [TS]

00:30:13   eight was was a very good follow up to [TS]

00:30:16   fifth season i I didn't you know [TS]

00:30:19   structurally it could do what the first [TS]

00:30:20   book did with the three different [TS]

00:30:21   timelines but it still found a way to [TS]

00:30:23   tell threaded stories in this world and [TS]

00:30:26   also further that mystery that comes [TS]

00:30:28   from the first book and I I didn't you [TS]

00:30:30   know I was quite happy about it I [TS]

00:30:32   thought good job good job inkay Jamison [TS]

00:30:35   good job good job well and I mean you [TS]

00:30:38   know this is I think a leading brought [TS]

00:30:40   this up the second book in a series [TS]

00:30:42   there's always that's a problem that the [TS]

00:30:46   first book out you know is your first [TS]

00:30:48   entree into this world and all this [TS]

00:30:50   stuff is exciting and new when you're [TS]

00:30:52   surprised by everything a second book [TS]

00:30:54   has a big job too it's almost impossible [TS]

00:30:57   for it to surprise you as much as the [TS]

00:30:59   first book does [TS]

00:31:00   but that being said I think this is a [TS]

00:31:02   really good second part of a trilogy [TS]

00:31:04   hopefully the third one will wrap it up [TS]

00:31:08   in be in a satisfying way and and I [TS]

00:31:12   enjoyed I would suggest that no one read [TS]

00:31:14   the second book without reading the [TS]

00:31:16   first book I don't know why you would do [TS]

00:31:18   that but people do lots of weird stuff [TS]

00:31:21   like listen to podcasts about books they [TS]

00:31:23   haven't read just one it just one [TS]

00:31:25   example one of the mysteries we didn't [TS]

00:31:27   talk about which was another part that I [TS]

00:31:29   really liked about the obelisk eight is [TS]

00:31:32   the character of her guardian from the [TS]

00:31:35   first book who at the end of the first [TS]

00:31:37   book I just assumed that he was [TS]

00:31:39   destroyed and nope he wasn't well part [TS]

00:31:43   of him sort of was because he's not even [TS]

00:31:45   quite the same character and through his [TS]

00:31:47   sort of like struggled to regain his own [TS]

00:31:51   self we learn more about another mystery [TS]

00:31:55   that is sort of related to the mystery [TS]

00:31:57   of the moon and the obelisks and there's [TS]

00:32:00   a thing in his head and it yeah there's [TS]

00:32:03   a thing that we don't completely [TS]

00:32:05   understand yet so I don't really know [TS]

00:32:07   how to articulate it but it's it [TS]

00:32:09   deepened the mystery and made that [TS]

00:32:12   character who I thought was already sort [TS]

00:32:15   of multi-layered and multifaceted in the [TS]

00:32:18   first book even deeper and even more [TS]

00:32:20   interesting and infuriating at the same [TS]

00:32:22   time because like you know he was doing [TS]

00:32:25   some bad stuff but then then he does [TS]

00:32:27   some good stuff and it's just it's it's [TS]

00:32:30   very good I like him Emily way the way [TS]

00:32:33   that that his story is revived in the [TS]

00:32:36   second book is really interesting [TS]

00:32:37   because you know yes he is apparently [TS]

00:32:39   dead in the water literally dead in the [TS]

00:32:42   water in the first book and the second [TS]

00:32:44   book the second book basically says okay [TS]

00:32:46   remember that guy who was dead in the [TS]

00:32:48   water well he was dead and in the water [TS]

00:32:51   and sinking and then something really [TS]

00:32:54   strange happened and he was dead so he's [TS]

00:32:58   still dead but he's now sort of not [TS]

00:33:00   because of this thing that happened to [TS]

00:33:02   him and there's this question like who [TS]

00:33:04   you know what force is motivating him [TS]

00:33:07   now and why is he different and that's [TS]

00:33:09   unclear because you do get the sense [TS]

00:33:10   that you have you have competing [TS]

00:33:12   factions here [TS]

00:33:13   about like do they want the moon to come [TS]

00:33:15   back or not do they want the the the the [TS]

00:33:17   people who live on the surface of the [TS]

00:33:19   planet to survive and be stable or is it [TS]

00:33:22   better if they all die so that the stone [TS]

00:33:25   people can just live and be happy and [TS]

00:33:27   that's all like not entirely clear at [TS]

00:33:30   this point but I do like that that that [TS]

00:33:32   the book doesn't say you know oh it [TS]

00:33:35   turned out he didn't die they're like [TS]

00:33:36   know what you saw he did pay a price and [TS]

00:33:39   and this guy is is kind of him but kind [TS]

00:33:42   of not and and that was really good I [TS]

00:33:45   felt like I felt like that was her [TS]

00:33:47   playing fair and not just reviving a [TS]

00:33:49   character and saying you know fooled you [TS]

00:33:51   but instead saying no there was a price [TS]

00:33:53   to pay you saw what you saw and then [TS]

00:33:55   this thing happened after that yeah and [TS]

00:33:56   I like they when they're in the the calm [TS]

00:33:59   the geode thing right they discover this [TS]

00:34:02   control room and you know it gives you [TS]

00:34:05   because a lot of this is a fantasy I [TS]

00:34:08   would characterize yes but it's it's [TS]

00:34:10   theirs then there are these dashes of [TS]

00:34:12   science fiction where you find a control [TS]

00:34:14   room and there are pictographs and they [TS]

00:34:17   have to try and decipher it and their [TS]

00:34:18   buttons and they control all the stuff [TS]

00:34:20   and there's what these like metal things [TS]

00:34:23   that try to kill you or insert [TS]

00:34:26   themselves into you it's unclear what [TS]

00:34:28   they do but they're probably not good I [TS]

00:34:30   love the whole idea of this lived in [TS]

00:34:31   world that the the we didn't have this [TS]

00:34:33   debate on a previous episode didn't we [TS]

00:34:35   um i love i love the debate about is it [TS]

00:34:39   science fiction owners of fantasy the [TS]

00:34:40   lived in world thing though the fact [TS]

00:34:42   that there have been many many dead sibs [TS]

00:34:43   right these previous civilizations that [TS]

00:34:45   died and their tech is still around and [TS]

00:34:47   that's a really fun bit it throughout [TS]

00:34:50   and in the obelisk eight you get them [TS]

00:34:52   yeah they're living in this underground [TS]

00:34:53   city but it's got like a trapdoor and [TS]

00:34:55   tunnels and stuff that lead to the [TS]

00:34:57   surface so you think it's just this old [TS]

00:34:58   town like from a western or something [TS]

00:35:00   it's just a little desert of town but [TS]

00:35:01   you go down through go through this in [TS]

00:35:03   this building and then down and suddenly [TS]

00:35:05   there's this whole city underneath it in [TS]

00:35:08   this geode and then there's a control [TS]

00:35:10   room so it's like where's this from what [TS]

00:35:11   is this old tech people don't really [TS]

00:35:13   know how it works they just try to keep [TS]

00:35:15   the air circulating that's all that's [TS]

00:35:17   all pretty great that's why i maintain [TS]

00:35:19   that this is earth and this is a science [TS]

00:35:22   fiction book and that it is just so far [TS]

00:35:23   in the future that the technology that [TS]

00:35:25   they have [TS]

00:35:26   you know it's Clark's law that that you [TS]

00:35:28   know but its technology so advanced it [TS]

00:35:30   might as well be magic and I mean [TS]

00:35:32   they're taught that they actually have [TS]

00:35:34   some hazy records that the I can't [TS]

00:35:38   remember exactly when the first season [TS]

00:35:39   was but I know they're talking like time [TS]

00:35:41   frames of 20,000 30,000 yes and I mean [TS]

00:35:44   when you think about the entire [TS]

00:35:46   existence of human history at this point [TS]

00:35:49   I can't even fathom what 20,000 years in [TS]

00:35:52   the future might look like so that's why [TS]

00:35:54   my my headcanon until it has proved [TS]

00:35:56   otherwise perhaps in another book is [TS]

00:35:58   that this is earth and it's just far in [TS]

00:36:00   the future which is what I thought in [TS]

00:36:01   the first book and now I think it even [TS]

00:36:03   more after we mu to escape we'll see [TS]

00:36:05   what the moon looks like when it comes [TS]

00:36:07   back how about that that'll tell us [TS]

00:36:09   everything yeah well just say is that [TS]

00:36:11   Armand it is called the broken earth [TS]

00:36:13   series and it does talk about the [TS]

00:36:16   continents breaking apart and coming [TS]

00:36:18   together and you know like like these [TS]

00:36:20   series of continents continental drifts [TS]

00:36:23   and then coming together again in a way [TS]

00:36:26   that kind of makes me think it's it's [TS]

00:36:29   earth maybe I mean earth earth the [TS]

00:36:31   planet and earth like the idea of land [TS]

00:36:33   and ground is not necessarily not [TS]

00:36:35   necessarily the same Erika the reason [TS]

00:36:37   that I think that though I think of it [TS]

00:36:39   as fantasy and not science fiction is [TS]

00:36:41   mostly because I don't see a lot of [TS]

00:36:43   scientific backing for people who can [TS]

00:36:46   cause earthquakes with their minds and [TS]

00:36:48   you know that that that seems to be [TS]

00:36:50   magic you're right i mean maybe they [TS]

00:36:53   were genetically engineered and maybe [TS]

00:36:54   but i'm not sure you can genetically [TS]

00:36:56   engineer somebody to be telekinetic like [TS]

00:36:59   that that seems like still seems like [TS]

00:37:01   fantasy to me with science rapping maybe [TS]

00:37:04   they did it in the x-men I'm sure at [TS]

00:37:06   some point people thought that it was [TS]

00:37:08   impossible for another human being to [TS]

00:37:10   make fire so all right okay technology [TS]

00:37:13   yeah well they're its mutants Scott it's [TS]

00:37:16   the x-men their meals right the mutants [TS]

00:37:19   right you can't argue with atomic [TS]

00:37:20   science atomic energy creates mutants [TS]

00:37:23   and mutants have powers and I think I've [TS]

00:37:25   just proven Oh Erica's point that they [TS]

00:37:27   made their dispensers well in denying in [TS]

00:37:30   the obelisk gate there isn't it's [TS]

00:37:32   revealed that she has you'd like these [TS]

00:37:34   organ origins [TS]

00:37:37   there you go they can do even more than [TS]

00:37:39   control the the earth right they can [TS]

00:37:41   there's like energy between cells or [TS]

00:37:44   something so they could do other crazy [TS]

00:37:45   things and the stone and the stone [TS]

00:37:48   eaters but you know were actually [TS]

00:37:50   adapted genetically altered altered [TS]

00:37:53   molecular Lee somehow from people they [TS]

00:37:56   were originally humans that went too far [TS]

00:37:58   but but I will sort of concede the the [TS]

00:38:01   fantasy point on on one level Jason and [TS]

00:38:03   that is the whole sort of father earth [TS]

00:38:06   thing and the idea of the planet itself [TS]

00:38:09   having I don't know a personality in [TS]

00:38:11   mind a life something which again not [TS]

00:38:13   quite clear yet that does sort of strike [TS]

00:38:16   me as as fantasy and I'm not sure I can [TS]

00:38:18   see any science fictiony way to redeem [TS]

00:38:20   that part of it so yeah I guess I'm [TS]

00:38:22   still reserving a little judgment I'm [TS]

00:38:24   pretty sure there's just a computer at [TS]

00:38:25   the core of the earth Erica blown this [TS]

00:38:29   is a Star Trek episode but we we have [TS]

00:38:32   that now right like now we talk about [TS]

00:38:34   mother earth and what his mother earth [TS]

00:38:35   want and and all of that so it it could [TS]

00:38:40   just be an inversion of we're not people [TS]

00:38:42   are not mother earth is not answering [TS]

00:38:44   right that's that's generally we're not [TS]

00:38:46   gonna use God well nothing that's true i [TS]

00:38:49   will not be sensitive in that way fair [TS]

00:38:53   and haul me mother earth or send me a [TS]

00:38:55   text actually if you do this please [TS]

00:38:57   don't call me yeah don't call just in [TS]

00:38:59   the text it's an email if you really [TS]

00:39:01   need to but oh no Johnny email either [TS]

00:39:03   yeah if you really need to but just [TS]

00:39:06   don't I don't I don't want to talk to [TS]

00:39:07   mother earth um anything I want to talk [TS]

00:39:10   about her 100,000 think kingdom series a [TS]

00:39:13   little bit a little bit is that okay or [TS]

00:39:15   are there more things to say about fifth [TS]

00:39:18   season a novel escape before we do that [TS]

00:39:20   I just want to say how much i love [TS]

00:39:21   syenite just stop I love cyan I I love [TS]

00:39:25   she's she is a tough woman who's been [TS]

00:39:29   put in a tough situation and she is [TS]

00:39:33   determined to make it work as best for [TS]

00:39:35   her as she can and um I don't know I [TS]

00:39:39   think part of that is how I was raised [TS]

00:39:41   as kind of a working-class person and [TS]

00:39:43   you know you you ascend to the best you [TS]

00:39:46   can while maintaining social [TS]

00:39:48   harmony and not rocking the boat too [TS]

00:39:51   much and I think the reason I like [TS]

00:39:54   syenite so much is because I see so much [TS]

00:39:56   of myself in her she's maybe a little [TS]

00:39:58   bit more abrupt and blunt than I tends [TS]

00:40:03   to be but I just um that that period in [TS]

00:40:08   her life I don't know there was [TS]

00:40:10   something about it that I just thought [TS]

00:40:12   was amazing and I felt like in some ways [TS]

00:40:16   it was her being as true to herself as [TS]

00:40:19   she could be because when she was young [TS]

00:40:21   she was doing what she needed to do to [TS]

00:40:23   survive and when she was older she was [TS]

00:40:26   doing what she needed to do to blend in [TS]

00:40:28   but a lot of what we get with syenite is [TS]

00:40:30   her just just doing what she needs to do [TS]

00:40:34   and I so greatly appreciated that and [TS]

00:40:36   appreciated how it was I don't know [TS]

00:40:39   uncomplicated I guess in some ways while [TS]

00:40:42   all this complication was happening [TS]

00:40:44   around her yeah it's it's the first book [TS]

00:40:47   really makes you wonder I mean talk [TS]

00:40:50   about putting a spotlight on a on a [TS]

00:40:52   person and their character is if you [TS]

00:40:56   show them in those three phases of their [TS]

00:40:58   lives and you know by viewing what [TS]

00:41:02   happened to them in these three key [TS]

00:41:04   phases you really do gain great and [TS]

00:41:06   great ER understanding about that [TS]

00:41:08   character and that this is a fully [TS]

00:41:09   realized character we we learned what [TS]

00:41:12   happened when she was a child we learned [TS]

00:41:14   what happened when she was a [TS]

00:41:15   professional and then we learned what [TS]

00:41:17   happened when she tried to build a life [TS]

00:41:18   after being a professional and having [TS]

00:41:22   that kind of fall apart and it turns out [TS]

00:41:25   have her whole family kind of died and [TS]

00:41:28   and be and having her history wiped out [TS]

00:41:31   and and so it's yeah it's a it's it's a [TS]

00:41:34   character you don't get to know [TS]

00:41:36   characters that well in books very often [TS]

00:41:38   and see that many aspects of them as you [TS]

00:41:40   do with her the hundred thousand [TS]

00:41:42   kingdoms which i guess is called the [TS]

00:41:44   inheritance trilogy is where she first [TS]

00:41:46   kind of made her name which i still [TS]

00:41:48   haven't read yet so I I really loved the [TS]

00:41:51   hundred thousand kingdoms and the funny [TS]

00:41:54   thing is I never read the other two [TS]

00:41:55   books in the series a shout out to Glen [TS]

00:41:57   Glen fleischmann read all of women loves [TS]

00:41:59   them but he yet would still not be on [TS]

00:42:01   this pot [TS]

00:42:02   no shout out to clan take that back I i [TS]

00:42:05   personally retract Jason's shout out to [TS]

00:42:07   Glenn Glenn who I say to you Glenn who [TS]

00:42:11   hundred thousand kingdoms so that's her [TS]

00:42:13   debut a fan I'm fantasy in a much [TS]

00:42:17   clearer way this is this is a world [TS]

00:42:19   where they're the gut there are gods and [TS]

00:42:21   there are there are God llings which are [TS]

00:42:23   basically like demigods and there are [TS]

00:42:26   people and there is this very [TS]

00:42:29   complicated scenario where there's an [TS]

00:42:30   incredibly rich family called the era [TS]

00:42:33   Mary I think whoo-hoo basically have one [TS]

00:42:38   of the gods of the planet chained up and [TS]

00:42:41   they're like the gods or their slave is [TS]

00:42:44   kind of and they're essentially there is [TS]

00:42:47   a revolt and things change over the [TS]

00:42:50   course of the book kind of dramatically [TS]

00:42:52   for the epistemological foundations of [TS]

00:42:55   this society is one way to put it when [TS]

00:42:58   when you get God's kind of coming and [TS]

00:42:59   going it's kind of a big deal but I love [TS]

00:43:02   this book when I first read it and one [TS]

00:43:04   of the things I loved about it if you [TS]

00:43:05   can Rack your brains those of you who [TS]

00:43:07   have read this back to back to the last [TS]

00:43:09   time you read it one of the things I [TS]

00:43:11   loved about it is just the I'm a sucker [TS]

00:43:14   for the idea that there's an incredible [TS]

00:43:16   power that is controlled but could be on [TS]

00:43:19   the verge of breaking free and killing [TS]

00:43:22   you at any time the magician's books [TS]

00:43:25   have some of this to where they talk [TS]

00:43:26   about God's there's something I love [TS]

00:43:28   that about fantasy gods this idea that [TS]

00:43:30   like we have magic and we have people [TS]

00:43:32   and people are cool but their gods and [TS]

00:43:35   if they smite you you you are smoked [TS]

00:43:38   that's the end for you and that's the [TS]

00:43:40   world of a hundred thousand kingdoms is [TS]

00:43:43   that they've chained up a god who's [TS]

00:43:44   incredibly powerful and if you make one [TS]

00:43:46   wrong step he will destroy you and I [TS]

00:43:49   love that about about that new this [TS]

00:43:51   Prince of Darkness this this did the [TS]

00:43:54   nighttime God who's who's kind of the [TS]

00:43:56   devil you could you could and then you [TS]

00:43:59   feel kind of sorry for him because he's [TS]

00:44:01   been he's been enslaved by these awful [TS]

00:44:03   humans for a long time it's a it's a lot [TS]

00:44:06   of world building in these books too yes [TS]

00:44:08   yeah I'm a I'm a sucker for mythology [TS]

00:44:11   growing up I loved Greek mythology in [TS]

00:44:13   Roman mythology and [TS]

00:44:15   I checked to the same books out of the [TS]

00:44:17   library over and over and over again [TS]

00:44:19   same Greek myths and this kind of filled [TS]

00:44:22   that for me and this and this idea too [TS]

00:44:26   that that this family really has taken [TS]

00:44:30   the gods and enslaved them all of them [TS]

00:44:33   except for maybe one I think if I'm [TS]

00:44:36   remembering correctly like that was [TS]

00:44:39   fascinating to me it was very very [TS]

00:44:41   interesting and I thought it was really [TS]

00:44:44   well executed it's a it's a fascinating [TS]

00:44:47   book it turns out having so I didn't [TS]

00:44:48   read the other two books in the series [TS]

00:44:50   until last month and I read them both so [TS]

00:44:54   in preparation for this podcast and it's [TS]

00:44:56   funny looking back on it now that what [TS]

00:44:59   seemed like this kind of mind-blowing [TS]

00:45:00   story about like the rise and fall of [TS]

00:45:03   God's is in the context of the other two [TS]

00:45:06   books merely the prelude for what is to [TS]

00:45:09   come which is pretty amazing that you [TS]

00:45:12   think that because it turns out that of [TS]

00:45:13   course the rise and fall of gods and the [TS]

00:45:16   creation of new gods that happens in a [TS]

00:45:18   hundred thousand kingdoms leads to a [TS]

00:45:20   room attic power shift and so you know [TS]

00:45:24   several years after I read the first [TS]

00:45:26   book I picked up the second book and [TS]

00:45:27   couldn't remember a whole lot about the [TS]

00:45:29   first book as I started reading it and [TS]

00:45:31   it's at ten years after the hundred [TS]

00:45:33   thousand kingdoms and you get to see a [TS]

00:45:35   little hint of what's been going on with [TS]

00:45:38   these with these gods since there's been [TS]

00:45:40   they've achieved their freedom and and [TS]

00:45:43   the light God has has had to be [TS]

00:45:46   sentenced to some punishment for being [TS]

00:45:49   complicit in the sleigh enslavement of [TS]

00:45:51   the other gods and it's a very different [TS]

00:45:53   book the the broken kingdoms very [TS]

00:45:57   different book but a really good book in [TS]

00:46:00   fact I think my favorite of the three is [TS]

00:46:02   that second book and they does stand [TS]

00:46:06   alone I feel like more than the the [TS]

00:46:08   fifth season series does in the sense [TS]

00:46:11   that the second book the third book [TS]

00:46:13   doesn't stand alone but the second book [TS]

00:46:14   it's got a completely different [TS]

00:46:16   protagonist and although the characters [TS]

00:46:18   from the first book do appear in it it [TS]

00:46:20   really is about the journey of the of [TS]

00:46:21   the protagonist of the of the second [TS]

00:46:23   book who is a blind artist who can only [TS]

00:46:25   see in a very clever [TS]

00:46:28   set up she can only see Magic so she's [TS]

00:46:32   blind but if somebody's magical she can [TS]

00:46:34   see them and she can see the magic they [TS]

00:46:36   do and at some point she's taken up into [TS]

00:46:38   the the city in the inside the World [TS]

00:46:41   Tree that the the rich family lives in [TS]

00:46:43   which is this enormous tree that it's [TS]

00:46:46   like it sounds and suddenly she can see [TS]

00:46:48   everything because everything is Magic [TS]

00:46:50   up there and that's pretty cool too so [TS]

00:46:52   it's a it's it's a I really love the [TS]

00:46:55   second book a lot I don't know alene [TS]

00:46:57   what you thought about the about the [TS]

00:46:58   other books in the series I did not like [TS]

00:47:01   the third one as much and i agree with [TS]

00:47:03   you i thought the second book was was [TS]

00:47:06   considerably better than the first one [TS]

00:47:07   and considering how quickly i blew [TS]

00:47:11   through the first one I feel like that's [TS]

00:47:12   quite a testament and because I really [TS]

00:47:15   really did love the hundred thousand [TS]

00:47:18   kingdoms I loved the promise of it I [TS]

00:47:20   love to the execution and the ending [TS]

00:47:24   surprised me I mean you don't see many [TS]

00:47:27   people ascend to godhood in Boca so so [TS]

00:47:31   it was I just I just thought it was it [TS]

00:47:33   was delightful in the second book like [TS]

00:47:36   you said I think because it had that [TS]

00:47:38   humanizing element and to it in the [TS]

00:47:41   humanist humanization of the gods right [TS]

00:47:43   because in the first book we have we [TS]

00:47:47   have the gods of slaves but they're [TS]

00:47:49   still God's right there still um feared [TS]

00:47:53   and revered kind of in a way right and [TS]

00:47:55   their tent their tens of thousands of [TS]

00:47:56   years old and they're still powerful and [TS]

00:47:58   they're still capricious and they still [TS]

00:47:59   look down on humans right there their [TS]

00:48:01   gods but they're just kind of in Chains [TS]

00:48:02   yeah yeah and in book 2 and the gods the [TS]

00:48:08   full God's didn't take part as much and [TS]

00:48:10   it was more humanity in the demigods and [TS]

00:48:13   i liked it i thought i thought it was I [TS]

00:48:17   thought it was great I thought again the [TS]

00:48:19   world building is so rich and wonderful [TS]

00:48:22   and I I agree yeah I love the second [TS]

00:48:26   book I love the first book i liked the [TS]

00:48:28   third book but i didn't love it to the [TS]

00:48:30   level that i do the other to the second [TS]

00:48:32   books even kind of like a murder mystery [TS]

00:48:33   it's basically like a demigod is dead [TS]

00:48:35   and how could [TS]

00:48:37   have been happened and who killed them [TS]

00:48:39   and why and I I was tickled by that too [TS]

00:48:43   it's like well this is a very different [TS]

00:48:45   approach to a second book in a trilogy [TS]

00:48:46   and it ends up yes it ends up linking to [TS]

00:48:50   everything that happened in the first [TS]

00:48:51   book it's not just happening in the [TS]

00:48:54   background there are things connected to [TS]

00:48:56   it but you know and you should probably [TS]

00:48:58   read the first book before you read the [TS]

00:49:00   second book but the second book just [TS]

00:49:01   stand it stands on its own as well it is [TS]

00:49:03   yeah it is a in a new character lead [TS]

00:49:06   character and her friend shiny who is a [TS]

00:49:09   character of mystery whose identity is [TS]

00:49:13   revealed later on in the book and that [TS]

00:49:15   that's really a fun thing to this this [TS]

00:49:19   the secret of her magical power to see [TS]

00:49:22   magic and to draw these draw these [TS]

00:49:25   pictures that sort of come to life which [TS]

00:49:28   is a pretty cool stuff there's a lot of [TS]

00:49:30   good stuff there's Scott you have any [TS]

00:49:31   recollection of these books at all I've [TS]

00:49:34   been recognized I to read all three I [TS]

00:49:37   remember that mostly because I just [TS]

00:49:40   checked good reads to me ever that in [TS]

00:49:41   fact i had read them all because i [TS]

00:49:43   remember the first two i have absolutely [TS]

00:49:46   no memory of what happens in the third [TS]

00:49:48   one the third book is about about CA who [TS]

00:49:50   is the trickster god and he basically be [TS]

00:49:52   friends these two children and they make [TS]

00:49:53   a blood oath and the blood oath turns [TS]

00:49:55   him into a mortal and he starts to age [TS]

00:49:58   and he's this he's this Cupid like [TS]

00:50:00   figure i always thought like he's a he's [TS]

00:50:03   a he's a trickster god like low-key but [TS]

00:50:05   he's also always seen as a child and [TS]

00:50:07   he's the god of children and suddenly [TS]

00:50:09   he's like going into adolescence and [TS]

00:50:11   he's an adult and he gets older and he's [TS]

00:50:14   because he's going to die and the gods [TS]

00:50:16   don't know what to do about it and it [TS]

00:50:20   turns out that there's a whole plot of [TS]

00:50:21   like somebody else wants to become a [TS]

00:50:23   full god instead of a demigod and the [TS]

00:50:25   universe is put at risk it's sort of [TS]

00:50:27   like the end of a doctor who season [TS]

00:50:28   where suddenly all reality is at risk is [TS]

00:50:31   how can we how can we increase the the [TS]

00:50:33   stakes to the highest possible point [TS]

00:50:35   which is the entire universe will be [TS]

00:50:36   destroyed if they can't solve this [TS]

00:50:38   problem and it was you know it was fine [TS]

00:50:41   but um CA is not one of my favorite [TS]

00:50:44   characters anyway and i think it was [TS]

00:50:46   trying it was a high degree of [TS]

00:50:47   difficulty to get you to care about him [TS]

00:50:49   and there's some good characters in that [TS]

00:50:51   book it's not bad but it's not as good [TS]

00:50:53   as the first do I think yeah yeah I'm [TS]

00:50:55   pretty remember enjoying the second I [TS]

00:50:56   mean I enjoyed the first and the second [TS]

00:50:58   for the second one sticks out in my mind [TS]

00:50:59   well reminded me a little bit of like [TS]

00:51:01   maybe some of those max Gladstone books [TS]

00:51:03   where it's like it's magic but it's also [TS]

00:51:06   kind of genre like a different kind of [TS]

00:51:08   genre like it really is like a murder [TS]

00:51:10   mystery there's no detective well there [TS]

00:51:13   is kind of police people but it's like [TS]

00:51:14   who killed the demigod is a fun [TS]

00:51:16   storyline to follow even though it does [TS]

00:51:19   become way bigger than that because in [TS]

00:51:20   the case of all good detective stories [TS]

00:51:22   it turns out it's not just about the one [TS]

00:51:24   person who died there's a whole [TS]

00:51:26   conspiracy around it and that's good too [TS]

00:51:28   so yeah yes that's a good book I liked [TS]

00:51:32   the lawn broken kingdoms so yeah those [TS]

00:51:35   are worth reading too she has other [TS]

00:51:37   books though I have not read ah as I [TS]

00:51:40   have read the killing moon but I have [TS]

00:51:42   not read the second book in that series [TS]

00:51:45   okay and there are only two at least at [TS]

00:51:47   this right I think I saw somewhere on [TS]

00:51:49   maybe in the kindle store it referred to [TS]

00:51:52   it as the dream blood duology which [TS]

00:51:54   means there was only two books people [TS]

00:51:55   just buy the two books but I haven't I [TS]

00:51:57   haven't read it and I think they just [TS]

00:51:59   came out with a one-volume with both [TS]

00:52:01   books in it right you can buy that I [TS]

00:52:04   enjoyed the first one it's about these [TS]

00:52:07   people who harvest dream energy and do [TS]

00:52:10   all kinds of things with it I was [TS]

00:52:13   enjoyable it's cool and allene have you [TS]

00:52:15   read those I don't I've tried reading uh [TS]

00:52:19   I've tried reading it but it's got that [TS]

00:52:23   higher barrier to entry um like nine fox [TS]

00:52:27   gambit and so I actually picked it up on [TS]

00:52:29   audible so I'm gonna try listening to it [TS]

00:52:32   and seeing how I do with it I will get [TS]

00:52:36   those i think i have the killing moon [TS]

00:52:37   and haven't read it so i will probably [TS]

00:52:39   do that at some point but i just read to [TS]

00:52:41   four books in short succession so i'm [TS]

00:52:42   going to take a little break which goes [TS]

00:52:44   back to one of our initial points we [TS]

00:52:45   just I feel like her books are so rich [TS]

00:52:47   and and thought-provoking and they're [TS]

00:52:49   well written and and they aren't quick [TS]

00:52:51   reads which doesn't mean that they're [TS]

00:52:52   they're slogs they're not but but I do [TS]

00:52:55   feel like after I read one of them it is [TS]

00:52:58   like a really good rich meal and I kind [TS]

00:53:00   of want to let it settle and [TS]

00:53:03   and and also she only writes you know [TS]

00:53:06   maybe if we're lucky a book a year right [TS]

00:53:08   so I also don't want to just I kind of [TS]

00:53:10   want to save them know that they're [TS]

00:53:12   there i got a couple NK jemisin books [TS]

00:53:14   out there that i haven't read yet [TS]

00:53:15   because they are i love them when i read [TS]

00:53:17   them and so there's that weird thing [TS]

00:53:19   it's a little bit like dan talking about [TS]

00:53:21   how he doesn't want to read the last [TS]

00:53:22   Terry Pratchett novel because then there [TS]

00:53:24   won't be any any left right it's a [TS]

00:53:26   little bit like that yeah where is NK [TS]

00:53:29   jemisin still read in books it's fine [TS]

00:53:30   she's fine but again it's like why you [TS]

00:53:33   know I don't want to use up the queue [TS]

00:53:34   there and then have to just wait [TS]

00:53:35   painfully like I have to do when there's [TS]

00:53:37   a new game of thrones novel right which [TS]

00:53:39   is like no cheese it was great while I [TS]

00:53:42   was getting caught up and then I got [TS]

00:53:43   caught up and now I'm just like [TS]

00:53:44   everybody else going George where's the [TS]

00:53:45   book so you know that's no good yeah I [TS]

00:53:49   think you're I think you're an analogy [TS]

00:53:51   about the very rich meal is probably [TS]

00:53:53   kinder sounding than meisa but mine it [TS]

00:53:55   was about exercise huh but but I tell [TS]

00:53:58   you I feel better after exercising than [TS]

00:54:00   I do after having eaten a good meal so i [TS]

00:54:02   think i need you know somewhere in the [TS]

00:54:04   happy medium in between those things we [TS]

00:54:06   have to start eating our rich meals [TS]

00:54:08   while we're exercising Oh think just [TS]

00:54:10   knowing about it that is that would be [TS]

00:54:13   it that would be a great diet I'm sure [TS]

00:54:15   somebody has already come up with that [TS]

00:54:16   fad diet be fad diet where you can eat [TS]

00:54:18   anything you like but only while you're [TS]

00:54:20   running hey if not we could make a [TS]

00:54:22   million this is this is the you know [TS]

00:54:24   next moneymaker for the incomparable [TS]

00:54:25   right yeah or biking you know whatever [TS]

00:54:27   you can run or bike but you basically it [TS]

00:54:29   you have to be you have to be pedaling [TS]

00:54:31   or running furiously and then and then [TS]

00:54:34   you can eat like a hamburger but only [TS]

00:54:36   when you're running and and we'll call [TS]

00:54:38   it the vomit while running diet it'll be [TS]

00:54:41   great you the pounds just come off yes [TS]

00:54:46   there they melt away that's right or are [TS]

00:54:49   vomited away one of us they get washed [TS]

00:54:52   away this district attorney here let's [TS]

00:54:58   save him right yeah I don't know how we [TS]

00:54:59   got here it was probably it's something [TS]

00:55:01   involving a floating gym or a moon but [TS]

00:55:04   we're gonna move on a moon and very [TS]

00:55:06   quickly do a round of what are we [TS]

00:55:08   reading which were we talk about books [TS]

00:55:09   that we've read recently that we would [TS]

00:55:11   like to mention does have to be [TS]

00:55:13   something you're reading right this [TS]

00:55:14   moment but books that you've read [TS]

00:55:15   recently that you would like to mention [TS]

00:55:16   scott j said what have you been reading [TS]

00:55:18   as I've been doing yes I've been reading [TS]

00:55:21   a bunch of stuff as of late currently I [TS]

00:55:24   am reading as mentioned in the beginning [TS]

00:55:26   the latest ian macdonald book which is [TS]

00:55:29   the second part in his new moon trilogy [TS]

00:55:33   I thought I originally thought it was [TS]

00:55:35   only just be two books but I here now [TS]

00:55:37   the ending of this book is not actually [TS]

00:55:38   an ending so I don't know how many books [TS]

00:55:40   it's going to be which is kind of [TS]

00:55:43   disappointing because I do get a little [TS]

00:55:45   sick of long-running series but I enjoy [TS]

00:55:49   ian MacDonald so I trust him and I will [TS]

00:55:51   just continue to read whatever he writes [TS]

00:55:52   I like new moon so you're reading wolf [TS]

00:55:56   moon I am reading wolf moon all right I [TS]

00:55:59   didn't know that was out I'll read that [TS]

00:56:02   I like I like new moon it was fun it's [TS]

00:56:04   out you should read it just came out [TS]

00:56:05   didn't it like uh yesterday or so yeah I [TS]

00:56:08   think uh yeah it's really good i'm [TS]

00:56:10   enjoying it so far not done twenty-five [TS]

00:56:12   percent in ok and it's good you will [TS]

00:56:15   this is not a spoiler but a 1980s [TS]

00:56:18   fashion is back in style on the moon [TS]

00:56:20   swing so if you if you've got your your [TS]

00:56:23   leg warmers and your rip sweatshirt and [TS]

00:56:26   your big hoop earrings here's what you [TS]

00:56:28   do go to the moon cocos moon and [TS]

00:56:31   everyone will welcome you welcome you oh [TS]

00:56:34   that's great exactly oh all the people [TS]

00:56:37   of the room the other book that i read [TS]

00:56:39   right before that was a book that it was [TS]

00:56:41   on my kindle for a long time my wife had [TS]

00:56:44   read it she told me to read it i know'd [TS]

00:56:46   her advice but then i read it about a [TS]

00:56:48   year after she told me to go stalkers by [TS]

00:56:51   mary robinette kowal oh yeah so she's [TS]

00:56:55   cool but it's good said world war one [TS]

00:56:57   the idea is that the mediums are real [TS]

00:57:00   and they are a secret that the British [TS]

00:57:04   Army is using they train their soldiers [TS]

00:57:07   to look around as they're dying and [TS]

00:57:10   remember what's happening and then their [TS]

00:57:12   souls are taken and interrogated by [TS]

00:57:15   mediums and they get information about [TS]

00:57:18   the battlefield and such and there's a [TS]

00:57:20   mystery it's it's very good and very red [TS]

00:57:23   it in like four hours very good all [TS]

00:57:26   right I like our books I've read a [TS]

00:57:28   couple of her their books [TS]

00:57:30   and I know some people are turned off by [TS]

00:57:31   the idea of Jane Austen with magic so [TS]

00:57:34   this is a world war one with [TS]

00:57:36   spirituality so tell me I guess it's [TS]

00:57:39   better I don't know all right aleem [TS]

00:57:41   anything that you've been reading lately [TS]

00:57:43   you'd like to mention um I well we just [TS]

00:57:47   recorded our Neil Gaiman episode margin [TS]

00:57:49   ago so we're didn't we yeah so I've been [TS]

00:57:53   reading so i read american gods and in [TS]

00:57:57   NC boys I've been rereading the expanse [TS]

00:58:00   series i'm working on i'm reading a lot [TS]

00:58:02   this is a nice thing i'm working on [TS]

00:58:05   going through the expanse series again I [TS]

00:58:07   haven't read the most recent book yet [TS]

00:58:09   because I'm I'm working my way through [TS]

00:58:11   him again but one thing I wanted to [TS]

00:58:13   mention was i recently read the giver so [TS]

00:58:17   when I was young The Giver by Lois Lois [TS]

00:58:19   Laurie came out and there was no sequel [TS]

00:58:22   to it and I loved that book i read it i [TS]

00:58:24   don't know like four or five times and [TS]

00:58:26   then in my adulthood she actually came [TS]

00:58:29   out with three sequels to it and so I if [TS]

00:58:33   you're like me maybe in your mid 30s or [TS]

00:58:36   younger and you didn't know that there [TS]

00:58:38   were sequels to the giver and you read [TS]

00:58:40   that book when you were little you might [TS]

00:58:41   want to go check those out because they [TS]

00:58:43   were pretty good I didn't love the [TS]

00:58:44   fourth one but but they were all really [TS]

00:58:47   interesting I thought it was kind of a [TS]

00:58:49   fascinating world that she put together [TS]

00:58:51   and yeah working my way through the [TS]

00:58:54   nebula bus novel books very slowly but [TS]

00:58:57   working my way through them to Erica I [TS]

00:59:00   was just sort of looking back at the [TS]

00:59:02   stuff that I've been reading lately and [TS]

00:59:04   I realized it is pretty much all stuff [TS]

00:59:07   that is written by my friends so I feel [TS]

00:59:08   like I'm being super nepotistic here but [TS]

00:59:13   but this is legitimately what I have [TS]

00:59:15   been reading I read the lost child of [TS]

00:59:17   which ferd by paul cornell which is the [TS]

00:59:19   sequel to The Witches of lich ferd [TS]

00:59:22   they're both novellas published on tour [TS]

00:59:24   com and quite enjoyed that just [TS]

00:59:26   delightful little world it's it's very [TS]

00:59:29   fantastical one takes place in a little [TS]

00:59:31   English country village that's sort of [TS]

00:59:34   on the border of fairyland ish sort of [TS]

00:59:37   stuff so and has three really amazing [TS]

00:59:40   women at the heart of the story all who [TS]

00:59:43   have very [TS]

00:59:44   very different personalities and [TS]

00:59:45   interact I think in a very realistic way [TS]

00:59:47   so love those i also i am working my way [TS]

00:59:53   through the nebula books which are not [TS]

00:59:55   written by friends of mine but the other [TS]

00:59:56   book that i am in the middle of right [TS]

00:59:57   now is also by paul cornell and it is [TS]

00:59:59   called [TS]

00:59:59   called [TS]

01:00:00   chalk and it is a we were talking about [TS]

01:00:03   books sometimes taking a long time to [TS]

01:00:05   read because they're difficult and this [TS]

01:00:07   is is one like that and it's not [TS]

01:00:09   difficult in a bad way it is just it is [TS]

01:00:11   a book that has sort of dark fantasy [TS]

01:00:14   elements but it is a lot about bullying [TS]

01:00:18   and follows the the life of this young [TS]

01:00:20   boy who is growing up in England and the [TS]

01:00:23   struggles that he goes through and if [TS]

01:00:25   you had any kind of a rough childhood in [TS]

01:00:27   school it can like it hits really close [TS]

01:00:30   to home um in a lot of ways so it's it's [TS]

01:00:33   very good and I'm only about halfway [TS]

01:00:35   through and haven't haven't gotten to [TS]

01:00:38   you know to see everything that happens [TS]

01:00:40   so far but it is one that I have to take [TS]

01:00:42   in sort of small bites in order to get [TS]

01:00:45   through it because otherwise it's just [TS]

01:00:46   going to be a little bit too heavy for [TS]

01:00:48   me and also as usual I am trying to keep [TS]

01:00:52   up on uncanny magazine because I do [TS]

01:00:54   their podcast over there and for their [TS]

01:00:56   last for the last episode of the podcast [TS]

01:00:59   or one of the recent ones I got to read [TS]

01:01:01   a story by Maya Verity co-host tansy [TS]

01:01:03   rayner Roberts and it is called some [TS]

01:01:05   Cupid's kill with arrows and it is a [TS]

01:01:09   very light-hearted short little story [TS]

01:01:13   about what if Greek gods were actually [TS]

01:01:16   real and you ended up speed dating a [TS]

01:01:20   bunch of them and then it kind of goes [TS]

01:01:22   on from there and it's it's just kind of [TS]

01:01:24   hilarious and fun and in addition to [TS]

01:01:28   that there's a whole bunch of nonfiction [TS]

01:01:29   in uncanny magazine these days there [TS]

01:01:32   they have been sort of soliciting essays [TS]

01:01:34   about resistance and how people who [TS]

01:01:36   create art can survive in a world that [TS]

01:01:39   is changing from what we sort of have [TS]

01:01:42   have dealt with before and how to how to [TS]

01:01:44   keep yourself sane and and keep creating [TS]

01:01:46   and that sort of stuff so that's all [TS]

01:01:49   good things to read at the uncanny which [TS]

01:01:51   I've had been enjoying quite a bit nice [TS]

01:01:52   um i just read john scalzi as the [TS]

01:01:56   collapsing Empire which I enjoyed it's a [TS]

01:01:59   fun book I don't think it's calls his [TS]

01:02:00   best book I thought it doesn't have as [TS]

01:02:03   Scott mentioned earlier like it's it [TS]

01:02:05   doesn't have the the art I think of the [TS]

01:02:07   writing doesn't carry the weight of [TS]

01:02:09   something like NK jemisin with [TS]

01:02:11   but it's fun space opera if you want [TS]

01:02:14   galaxy-spanning galactic empires and [TS]

01:02:18   imaginations and things like that and [TS]

01:02:20   various lords and all of that on planets [TS]

01:02:24   it's got all of that in fact I would say [TS]

01:02:26   it reads to me and he hasn't cited this [TS]

01:02:29   I think as an influence but it reads to [TS]

01:02:31   me as very much in the style of the [TS]

01:02:34   Miles Vorkosigan novels by lois mcmaster [TS]

01:02:37   bujold it feels very much like that [TS]

01:02:39   there are some very bujold characters [TS]

01:02:41   and that there's more swearing there's [TS]

01:02:43   more swearing but the setting seems very [TS]

01:02:46   similar to that I could almost imagine [TS]

01:02:48   the planet called end in this being very [TS]

01:02:51   much like like boot like a bar ER on in [TS]

01:02:56   bhuj olds world not quite as futile but [TS]

01:02:58   still kind of like at the back end of [TS]

01:03:00   nowhere and and then the Galactic Empire [TS]

01:03:03   is somewhere else there's even an [TS]

01:03:04   imperial auditor in it which is a job [TS]

01:03:06   from that Myles has in some of the [TS]

01:03:09   Vorkosigan novels but it's fun it is the [TS]

01:03:11   it is a setup for a series you will get [TS]

01:03:14   to the end of the first book and be much [TS]

01:03:16   less disappointed if it's very clear [TS]

01:03:17   from the beginning this is a prologue [TS]

01:03:19   this is set up for the the overarching [TS]

01:03:21   plot of the series but it's spaceships [TS]

01:03:24   and wormholes and an world building and [TS]

01:03:28   daring do and things like that and [TS]

01:03:30   there's nothing wrong with that so it's [TS]

01:03:32   a fun read Scott you ready to write I [TS]

01:03:34   have not read oh okay well if you read [TS]

01:03:36   it have it um you will find it fun well [TS]

01:03:39   good I I look fortunate I got it first [TS]

01:03:41   well I have it on hold in the library [TS]

01:03:43   now it hasn't come in library also you [TS]

01:03:45   should go to the library and read books [TS]

01:03:48   I'm reading all the birds in the sky [TS]

01:03:49   right now which is charlie jane anders [TS]

01:03:52   and that was one of the one of the [TS]

01:03:54   nebula nominees and i'm reading that [TS]

01:03:57   from the library because the library is [TS]

01:03:59   your friend and sometimes you can even [TS]

01:04:00   check out ebooks from my library books [TS]

01:04:04   there they do give them to you well [TS]

01:04:06   they'll loan them to you yeah that's [TS]

01:04:07   right bring them back people all right [TS]

01:04:09   well I think we've reached the end of [TS]

01:04:11   our book club yay Oh go read NK jemisin [TS]

01:04:14   last book club no for now only for now [TS]

01:04:17   okay sorry sorry hold on to be continued [TS]

01:04:22   I've sold you this is all set up because [TS]

01:04:26   this is just the latest in a continuing [TS]

01:04:28   series that never ends stop of melty [TS]

01:04:30   thank you for being on the book club [TS]

01:04:32   again it's good to have you back I felt [TS]

01:04:34   really weird talking about a book when [TS]

01:04:35   you weren't around uh well thank you I [TS]

01:04:38   felt weird having you people talk about [TS]

01:04:40   a book without me or be ground but if [TS]

01:04:42   I'm not interested in the books I don't [TS]

01:04:44   show up I think that's a good way to go [TS]

01:04:46   also now from now on if I'm talking just [TS]

01:04:48   in life to somebody about a book I'm [TS]

01:04:50   gonna give you a call just completion [TS]

01:04:52   he's gonna come on chime in I should [TS]

01:04:54   talk to Scott let's put him on speaker [TS]

01:04:55   see what he says you read this book and [TS]

01:04:56   Scott will say yes but I don't remember [TS]

01:04:58   it I don't remove on a little hung up [TS]

01:05:01   but it'll be fine you just put that on a [TS]

01:05:03   loop and I can just play it from my [TS]

01:05:04   phone bike hello Jason I did read that [TS]

01:05:07   book but I do not remember it why is [TS]

01:05:10   there be at the end I don't know that's [TS]

01:05:12   how I end all this beauty air can't sign [TS]

01:05:15   thank you for being here you know it was [TS]

01:05:16   really nice to be on a book club episode [TS]

01:05:19   where I really genuinely enjoyed the [TS]

01:05:21   books oh my nice it's not good this is [TS]

01:05:23   great it happens sometimes from time to [TS]

01:05:25   time it happens and allene Sims thank [TS]

01:05:28   you I'm so happy that you could be here [TS]

01:05:30   to talk about these books that you love [TS]

01:05:31   me too I got to talk about my two [TS]

01:05:33   favorite authors in like less than two [TS]

01:05:35   weeks so it's pretty great that's pretty [TS]

01:05:37   good that's pretty good yeah yeah I have [TS]

01:05:39   to say reading a lot of neil gaiman and [TS]

01:05:41   NK jemisin lately and then when i did [TS]

01:05:44   switch some other books like a bit of an [TS]

01:05:46   adjustment yeah like bow it is and again [TS]

01:05:49   nothing wrong with they have very [TS]

01:05:51   specific styles but when you're when [TS]

01:05:52   you're when you've dealt with people [TS]

01:05:54   with that kind of style it's a it's it's [TS]

01:05:57   hard because not everybody writes books [TS]

01:05:58   like that not everybody has all of those [TS]

01:06:00   skills they have different skills that's [TS]

01:06:02   fine but these two it was a lot of fun [TS]

01:06:04   it's fine everybody's okay I like your [TS]

01:06:08   books too I don't know Madeline we're [TS]

01:06:10   still not working just doesn't minute [TS]

01:06:12   yeah yeah yeah alright and thanks to [TS]

01:06:16   everybody out there for listening we [TS]

01:06:17   appreciate you listening to our podcast [TS]

01:06:19   about books and other things move back [TS]

01:06:22   next week with who knows what something [TS]

01:06:23   ridiculous probably because that's us [TS]

01:06:25   but until then I've been Jason Snell [TS]

01:06:27   your host goodbye everybody [TS]

01:06:30   [Music] [TS]