Hypercritical

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► you are listening to hypercritical it's [TS]

00:00:05 ◼   ► episode number 65 of this a weekly [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► talkshow ruminating on exactly what is [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► wrong the world of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► so perfect but it can't be complained [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► about by my co-host John siracusa like I [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► said it's episode number 65 today is [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► Friday April 27th 2012 I'm Dan benjamin [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► what to say thanks very much to our two [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► sponsors who we will tell you about more [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► as the program goes on source bits calm [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► and squarespace.com thanks very much to [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► them and also to joint comm for making [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► the bandwidth for the show possible so [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► that you could download it from the [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► safety and comfort of your own home good [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► day to you captain siracusa now as john [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► is a true john short for something [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► didn't we do this already i don't recall [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► it i'm pretty sure we did but no it's [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► not sure it's just John I like it that's [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► right run don't you anything you dummy [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► that's enough is enough what's not sure [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► more than enough you could drop the H no [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► that's that's bad okay age is [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► distinguished I like it I'm that I'm [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► just there's just an idea so I do have [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► follow-up today but I thought I would [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► start with something that could be a [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► topic but it fits in the fall kind of [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► segment thought we'd talk a little bit [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► about WWDC you did get your ticket so [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► let's just get that out there you got [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► him yeah yeah and I kind of knew [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► Wednesday was going to be the day the [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► tickets would go on sale my previous [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► theory based on no information was that [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► they would go and sale a similar time to [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► when I went on sale last year so around [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► the 28th I was waiting for them to come [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► out and that didn't happen I'm like okay [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► so now I have no idea when they're going [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► to be and then I started to hear I heard [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► things things about Wednesday and so [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► come Wednesday I'm like what to do on [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► Wednesday should I wake up early and [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► make sure I get to work by 9:00 o'clock [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► so I can be there you know to buy [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► tickets or should I just stay home and [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► you know they go on sale 9:00 I'll buy [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► them take five minutes and then be a [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► little bit late to work and I decided to [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► wake up early so I woke up early got got [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► headed out dark so it works up [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► would be there by nine o'clock and at [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► 8:40 sitting in my car I had my phone [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► out and sitting in the little you know [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► center console bin the little thing goes [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► off look it's the WWC Alerts tweet and I [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► said a very bad word very loudly in my [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► car because at that point I was sitting [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► in front of a light in traffic not [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► moving and I had moved in awhile and I [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► continued to sit there watching that [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► light cycle change over and over inching [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► up half a car length three or four feet [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► pause it 18 minutes basically i sat [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► there looking at that light but luckily [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► I had a contingency plan my contingency [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► plan was that vote first of all I had [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► already signed my wife up for WC alerts [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► as well and the second contingency plan [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► was to just get in touch with her and [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► have her buy tickets from wherever she [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► is on the iPhone 4s she got for [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► Christmas right that's what happened I [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► called her I said they're for sale I [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► gave her my ABC login information and [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► she bought sticks for me and so by the [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► time I actually got to work like 25 [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► minutes later I all I had left to do was [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► you know Hotel in plain which was more [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► expensive this year than last year it's [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► kind of a shame yeah although this year [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► they had the thing where Apple maybe [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► they had last year I just didn't know [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► about it Apple has discounted rates for [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► hotels last year I bought through one of [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► those reseller services that gives you [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► like a discount and that ended up being [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► very cheap so I didn't look for apples [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► thing this year Apple had their own [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► rates for attendees slightly cheaper [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► than you would have got if you went [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► through on your own so I'm staying [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► exactly the same place I was staying [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► last year which is a little far away [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► from me but I'll survive do you want to [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► tell me offline which place that is [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► because I must I must know these things [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► all right and that the story this week [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► about WTC is not about whether I got my [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► ticket but it's about all of the [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► complaining and gnashing of teeth about [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► everybody on the west coast you mean [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► just ever like even the people who got [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► tickets some of them just think it's [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► ridiculous you know I got tickets I [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► think it's kind of silly and it's just [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► kind of soul-searching about what what's [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► going on with Debbie Rose it was what's [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► the purpose of this obviously there's [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► way more demand than there is supply [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► they take [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► sold out in two hours if you graph this [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► like 2008 was the first time I sold out [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► or something and then it was like they [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► sold out in two weeks and they sold out [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► in two days then they sold out in 12 [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► hours now they sold out in two hours you [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► graph that you can see like soon they'll [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► be selling out you know five years from [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► now they'll be selling out three [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► microseconds or something obviously it's [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► not possible because of the speed of the [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► website they have selling them but in [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► general it's like that we have a problem [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► here in terms of supply and demand and [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► some people come in all sorts of things [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► like oddly lots of people have plans [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► designed to make sure that they get a [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► ticket and other people don't oh it [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► should be based on the age of your atc [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► account to be based on if you have a [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► successful app in the store all sorts of [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► things like that some one person even [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► suggested a lottery which i think it's a [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► great way to make nobody happy [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► because that's just yeah you know so [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► this is kind of like WWE alerts service [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► in general this was a service that [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► somebody put up i I should have known [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► these people's name but I don't but it [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► was a Twitter account WWC alerts you can [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► go to a web site and you enter in your [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► your phone number and they promise to [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► send your text when your saying you did [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► you did get one right you did receive [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► your say I had now again I signed up for [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► this just so that I could participate in [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► the excitement of the event I didn't [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► have any intention of buying tickets and [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► I didn't buy any tickets but I still [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► have yet to receive my text message I'm [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► waiting hoping that I will still get it [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► you're not gonna get oh well I guess it [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► could be held up in the carrier but so [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► the thing people annoyed about with the [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► texts is i hey i got my text telling me [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► tickets are for sale but i got them [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► after the thing was already sold out so [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► that kind of defeats the purpose and so [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► they weren't sure her to be mad about [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► should i be mad at WWC alerts because [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► they didn't send me my text until the [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► secretary sold out show i met at my [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► carrier because the text was sent but [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► the carrier held on to it before sending [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► it to me and that's a possibility so I [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► asked on Twitter what the deal is with [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► the with the alerts Inc then again by [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► the way this is a free service done out [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► of the goodness of someone's heart you [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► know don't think anyone has any [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► realistic expectation that they owed [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► anything by this free service that they [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► got and the person who runs it said that [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► they sent out tweets and first-come [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► first-serve passion or FIFO fashion for [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► all you computer scientists out there [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► which i think is completely fair because [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► the most rabid crazy people who signed [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► up [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► soon as they saw something called [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► debussy alerts that would text you they [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► got their their text sent first they [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► could still have problems if their [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► carrier held on to it or if their phone [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► wasn't on or all sorts of other things [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► but I would imagine the vast majority of [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► people who are getting their texts later [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► my wife included it's because they [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► signed up later so I signed up the [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► second I saw that Twitter account and I [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► signed my wife up I think just later in [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► that same day or so it wasn't that long [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► of a gap between when I signed up when [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► my wife signed up but she didn't get her [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► text until long long after I got mine so [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► and then of course is the wild card of [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► carriers holding texts for some amount [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► of time which no one can you know make [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► any termination of so the WDC alerts is [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► like WWC itself and that the current [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► strategy they're using is the people who [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► want it more have a higher chance of [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► getting it not guaranteed but it's kind [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► of like if you have a movie theater [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► thing where it's like well people line [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► up overnight to go see some movie or [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► line up overnight to get in to Macworld [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► keynote or whatever right those are the [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► people who are the most crazy and rabid [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► and it's first come first serve and they [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► get in if you don't get in you could say [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► oh this is BS I'm not gonna stay up over [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► you know it's it's kind of sorting [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► itself out in terms of enthusiasm now [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► again it's not a guarantee because there [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► are plenty people who signed up for the [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► service the second they saw it and had [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► like multiple alarms and had their own [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► things set up to scrape apples website [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► and write all them in every possible way [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► you know and told all the friends to [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► text them and tell them and they just [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► like they happen to be like at a phone [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► range or asleep or they got the text too [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► late or you know there's so many things [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► they can stop you from getting and those [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► people are said and I would be very sad [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► about that too so what's the what's the [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► solution here and I think this is [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► started a lot of soul-searching at least [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► amongst the people who didn't get [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► tickets about WWDC itself and as this [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► conference outgrown its usefulness or in [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► its current incarnation it's not it [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► doesn't make sense anymore or like [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► something is to change about it it seems [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► like because you know if it's if every [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► year an increasingly smaller fraction of [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► the total people who want to go end up [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► going that seems bad to me because even [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► if those are the most enthusiastic [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► fraction is that what Apple wants out [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► so it's trying to think about what the [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► point of WBC is so there's a couple of [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► aspects obviously one is that developers [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► go there to get help with doing their [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► job they learn things about developing [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► for the platforms that Apple promotes [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► they get to ask questions in person to [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► people who write the code that they use [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► to create their applications and [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► presumably all of this is more valuable [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► than the same thing you would get from [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► developer services or from watching the [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► videos or you know sending emails or [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► whatever because even if you could email [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► directly to the guy who wrote the [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► particular framework you're using you [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► having some sort of core foundation [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► problem and you can talk to the guy who [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► wrote core foundation was the original [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► author of it and the main lead on that [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► on the team that created it knows a lot [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► about it right even if you could email [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► that guy directly that doesn't scale [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► because that guy doesn't have time to [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► answer all your emails so here at WWC [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► that guy takes a week off of his normal [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► job basically to answer in person as [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► many questions as you can [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► but that's limited by how many people [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► attend the conference so if if they [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► tried to go like virtual like okay for [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► this week all app employees are [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► available for virtual WWC everybody [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► email away it doesn't work because the [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► whole point is that dude can't answer [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► 8,000 emails a day you can only you know [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► talk to a limited number of people day [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► and the attendance of WWC kind of [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► matches up with howhow much can you know [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► that you talk to that guy some people [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► are harder to get to know this but [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► basically over the course of an entire [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► week if you are one of the lucky 5,000 [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► or whatever attendees of WABC you can [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► find and talk to the one guy you want to [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► an apple or the two guys or whoever you [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► can make it happen but if it was ten [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► thousand people would that be true [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► twenty thousand thirty thousand seventy [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► thousand like packs at a certain point [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► there aren't enough Apple employees for [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► the people to get what they wanted out [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► of it but but clearly but with the size [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► that it is now that's something that the [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► conference is for it's for developers [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► who are lucky enough to go to get extra [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► special help with their applications and [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► to learn things in a way that they [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► couldn't without the conference the [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► second aspect is Apple is evangelizing [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► to developers this is a place for Apple [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► to persuade its developers in the [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► development community to do whatever it [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► is [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► wants them to do adopt this API stop [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► using this API revise your applications [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► for the iPad for the retina iPhone get [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► your applications off carbon and onto [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► cocoa whatever the thing is that Apple [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► is trying to get all the developers to [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► do to bring its platform forward here is [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► a chance for them to evangelize directly [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► to them and I think Apple also believes [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► that this is a better way to evangelize [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► in terms of effectiveness than sending [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► them emails or communicating through [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► technical documentation and saying [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► things are deprecated or you know what I [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► mean [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► because this is engineers talking to [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► engineers in person and that there is [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► you know we're human beings and there is [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► a persuasive aspect of that that's more [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► persuasive than hearing the same thing [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► on a video or reading it in an email or [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► reading it technical documentation [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► having a person up on stage pitching [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► basically what Apple wants them to do is [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► very effective and presumably if these [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► are the most rabid enthusiastic [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► developers who really want to get these [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► tickets they are the you know the [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► influencers and the real hardcore [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► developers of the rest of the community [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► so if you can convince these guys it [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► will spread outward for them to the rest [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► of the community another aspect of this [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► is that this is one of the WDC is one of [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► the rare may be the only time that you [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► can get you can get Apple as a [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► collective entity to explain to you why [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► they do things and pretty much if you [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► know in a public place like if you're in [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► developer right not in like a late-night [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► bar where somebody's yeah you know but [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► given a lot of alcohol or even like a [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► technical support incident where you may [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► be the guy will talk to you about stuff [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► that's like all under NDA and it's just [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► between you hit these people are on a [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► stage or in a public place and you can [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► ask them about it and they'll they'll at [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► this point they will explain to you oh [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► we did this because X Y & Z there's a [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► public version of that in the keynotes [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► when Jobs would go up and say we believe [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► that the future is X Y and then you know [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► there's like the public pitch that they [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► want the New York Times to write about [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► the big message for their thing but at a [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► developer level you can say why is this [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► API like this is it because it's just a [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► leftover and you haven't converted it [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► from C to Objective C yet or is it just [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► because like you can find out just [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► because the head of that team really [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► likes C api's but [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► than objective-c like you can argue with [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► them about it like when else do you get [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► a chance for them to actually tell you [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► why they're doing things and developers [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► I feel like me feel they can do it in [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► this sort of safe environment because [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► who really cares like it's not going to [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► be a New York Times story about C versus [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► Objective C ap is right so it's not a PR [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► problem and they'll tell you they'll be [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► like well you know I mean maybe they'll [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► tell you like your quote unquote [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► off-the-record aren't telling you [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► because you're pressed but like they'll [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► they'll be upfront with you and they'll [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► they'll acknowledge problem area is [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► another thing you almost never see or [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► you talk to Apple developers engineers [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► and even hole heads of departments and [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► they'll be very candid to you at WWC [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► about alia that's crappy we totally need [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► to fix that and that was a big mistake [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► we we wanted to do that but we found it [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► was a horrible mistake and now we're [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► stuck with trying to deprecate that api [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► or you know depending on how much how [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► many drinks you've had with the people [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► maybe they'll even tell you oh like I [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► was a jerk knee insist that I'm doing [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► this this way and we change it into it [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► that way and he got annoyed and change [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► to a different group like all the way [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► down to individual gossip but but all [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► the way up to on stage in front of a [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► roomful of people [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► and granted all this stuff is under NDA [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► - but it's like more public because [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► there's hundreds or thousands of people [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► there it's as far as I'm aware it's a [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► unique opportunity to get candid [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► communication with an entity that is [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► perfected the art of stonewalling [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► everybody and only letting out very [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► controlled pieces of information so all [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► if that's what WTF see is the valley's [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► things I describe what is there anything [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► that you can replace it with that [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► replace our multiple things maybe that [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► you replace it with that provides all [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► the same things in different [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► configurations like if you had a virtual [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► conference where they streamed [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► everything live but then they took like [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► live video questions then could you ask [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► your questions in person then but then [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► you wouldn't be seeing them like in [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► person in person and you couldn't have a [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► drink with them afterwards and does the [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► evangelizing network as well and does [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► that not scale because everyone can't [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► get a chance to answer that question or [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► do you do the virtual conference that [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► also an in-person conference or you just [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► change apples policies around [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► communicating with developers to be more [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► open all the time so WABC isn't the only [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► place where you can get this candid [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► exchange of information I don't know the [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► answer is or maybe you just keep going [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► like this or do you double the size w2 [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► BC and it still works when it's doubled [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► but it wouldn't work of as tripled or [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► quadrupled [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► we've seen it happen with many shows [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► with South by Southwest and with e3 [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► where these shows go through a cycle [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► where they're they're popular they get [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► bigger and bigger and then they implode [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► and then they court of go away for a [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► while and then come back so South by [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► Southwest hasn't imploded yet but I see [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► that out in their future if we did [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► implode went away came back but the [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► implosion of e3 kind of led not directly [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► but indirectly it helped boost packs to [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► have like an alternate conference about [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► everything and there are tons of other [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► conferences that alternatives at WABC [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► but it's tough to really ever come close [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► to replacing a business the one that's [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► officially sponsored by Apple where the [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► Apple people are there and talking to [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► you so I don't know what the answer is [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► here I just I think this is an issue [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► that will come up a lot in conversations [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► at WWC this year and I think the people [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► at Apple probably are thinking about it [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► I think they've got a few more years [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► they can continue like this but at a [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► certain point it becomes kind of silly [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► and maybe even the people who get to go [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► might be going to get a little cranky [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► about it and saying this is kind of [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► ridiculous you know this year I'm not [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► even going to try to stay up and get my [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► text and try to get a ticket you know [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► and of course the simple solution that I [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► always bring up the nobody likes [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► including me is so you have a supply and [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► demand problem raised the price takes [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► care of it right away doesn't it keep [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► raising the price until you just barely [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► sell out problem solved not really [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► because that's favoring rich developers [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► from big companies and is that really [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► who Apple wants to talk to are they the [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► biggest influencers for Apple's purposes [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► probably not so if that was the only [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► problem it was just a supply and demand [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► problem they could solve it just by [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► raising the price but I think they'd [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► have to raise it pretty darn high [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► actually to get the to get it not to [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► sell out or just just to barely sell out [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► who wants to spend $10,000 for a ticket [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► today very sick you know twenty thousand [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► dollars how high does it have to be to [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► keep people away I do not recommend that [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► approach but that would be the obvious [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► economists solution to this problem [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► where there is supply and demand [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► imbalance as long as I thought it would [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► be but I thought I thought it was worth [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► talking about it did you do a talk show [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► already this week we talked about WC [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► yeah we talked about a little bit and [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► you know John indicated that he got his [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► ticket and didn't really have much of a [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► solution himself or was clearly it very [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► clearly a problem [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► yeah and I don't know how big of a [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► problem it is or if it's just because [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► we're close to the event but the fact [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► that the people even the people who got [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► tickets think it's a problem I think [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► indicates that it really is and our [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► Apple probably agrees this is another [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► thing we'll be able to talk to them [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► about WABC whoever's in charge this that [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► thing is talked to the head of developer [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► relations guy and if they go yeah we [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► know it's a problem and they'll probably [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► discuss it with you or they'll say what [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► are you talking about what problem seems [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► fine to me and then you will have [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► learned something that you wouldn't have [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► learned otherwise [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► you know when WWDC was started you know [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► Apple was not in the position that it's [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► in today right now and you you have to [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► think back to the way that it was it is [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► that I don't I don't know when what year [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► it actually was the first year that had [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► sold out but there were plenty of years [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► before I ever went where it didn't sell [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► it or where it was you know just [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► something that only only the most [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► interested dedicated Apple developers [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► would even consider going to something [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► like this you know people who were [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► already making a living from building a [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► Mac application that these were the only [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► people who would even consider going to [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► something like that and they would go [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► and it was great and it was small it was [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► personal and then even even before iOS [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► happened even before there was an iPhone [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► it started to get much more popular and [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► now it's become something that's clearly [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► unwieldy I wonder if they would have [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► even created WWDC in the first place if [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► they were such a large company I would [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► have been something completely different [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► that they would have made I think one [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► smart thing they have done is not in the [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► past few years reacted in the [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► straightforward manner of so there's [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► more demand for our conference let's [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► sell more tickets and buy a bigger venue [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► is that's what South by Southwest and [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► III both yeah right it was just money [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► money money so at the very least Apple [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► has shown at least the wisdom to say I [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► think they probably have increased [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► attendance a lot since the thing started [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► but they haven't gone well let's just [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► turn that knob up until you know what I [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► mean isn't there's not a 20,000 person [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► wacc and I think they could sell 20,000 [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► tickets so they wanted to they [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► just need a much bigger venue but they [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► haven't done that to to apples credit so [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► in typical Apple Manor the default [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► action is no action and no communication [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► until they figure out what they're going [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► to do they don't scramble they don't do [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► the obvious thing that they think [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► everyone should do or just make the [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► conference bigger and you know put it in [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► a Superdome or something I don't so I'm [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► not sure what's what's happening there [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► but we all have we all have our eye on [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► and it's interesting that we have our [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► eye on it more now than we did last year [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► because last year was like what they [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► sold out in two days or something but it [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► just maybe there were fewer people who [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► wanted tickets who didn't get them or [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► that was the impression but once it gets [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► down to a couple of hours I guess we've [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► crossed the threshold of of anger and [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► resentment in the community that now now [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► we're all talking about this so here's [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► something that I want to mention that it [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► it's obvious but it's something that's [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► worth mentioning and that is Apple does [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► not Apple probably loses money or at [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► least they lose productivity so in that [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► sense they're probably losing money on [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► WWDC this is not a money-making that [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► this is not even a blip in where they [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► make their money from the unlike South [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► by Southwest which is the conference it [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► exists to do the conference that is you [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► know it is a conference pax is a [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► conference so those things need to make [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► money Apple doesn't care about making [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► money from this and they could charge [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► anything or they could charge nothing [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► for these tickets it's not going to cost [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► them very much yes it costs a lot of [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► money and for most companies they [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► couldn't conceive of doing something [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► like this the way that Apple could but [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► with with the numbers that just came out [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► this week that they made last quarter [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► this isn't this isn't this is nothing [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► you know that this is really not even a [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► tiny little blip on their chart it's not [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► about the money for them it's almost [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► like the price of admission is solely [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► there as a deterrent because you're [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► right that like they don't care about [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► the money and I don't you know I [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► wouldn't be surprised they do make money [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► on the conference first of all but I [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► don't think that's why they charge the [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► price I do I think they charge the price [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► they do to give some kind of control [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► yeah you know serious applicants only [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► kind of thing and by the way Zaki [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► Zack yahoo in the chatroom says last [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► year sold out in 12 hours not in two [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► days [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► but apparently 12 hours wasn't the [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► threshold I remember last year hearing [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► that crankiness about international [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► people who like hey I was asleep in [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► Australia and I missed it so that makes [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► sense with the 12-hour thing but it [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► wasn't the same as you know two hours is [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► it different order of magnitude I guess [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► but but yeah it's not and not only is it [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► not money-making it's different than [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► conferences like certainly different [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► than PACs and III and probably also [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► doesn't different than then South by [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► Southwest and that those conferences not [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► only exist to make money but they're put [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► on by a conference organiser and then [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► people pay the conference organiser to [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► show at the conference you know game [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► makers want to have a big booth and they [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► pay lots of money to put their booths on [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► the show floor and everything that's how [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► they make money because it's organized [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► by somebody and then people come and [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► participate to get access to the [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► attendees but there's no dynamic like [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► that at all at Apple Apple's not selling [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► floor space to the third-party vendor I [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► think they have done that in the past [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► like that's not their money-making [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► scheme it's an Apple conference put on [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► by Apple for you the developer it's a [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► direct relationship between there's no [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► third party conference organiser entity [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► if there is Apple's hiding it behind the [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► scenes who's trying to make money off of [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► this it is Apple and you Apple talks to [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► you you talk to Apple and they're you [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► know it's not a clearinghouse for third [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► parties to give money to get access to [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► all the developers who were there and [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► that makes it very different then I [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► think it's even different like I've [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► never been to Java one or anything like [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► that but that strikes me something where [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► vendors would want to display and you [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► know it's not just a Google i/o is [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► closer because I think it's mostly [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► Google talking to to people about Google [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► stuff so it is a kind of a weird thing [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► it's almost like like a seminar like [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► it's part as a paid developer you get [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► special training that you're allowed you [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► know what I mean it's like it's a direct [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► part of your developer membership that [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► you just pay extra for and now you get [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► this extra stuff rather than going to a [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► show to see lots of stuff you know and [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► then of course as Gruber point up is I [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► think I did hear as part of the show you [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► know there's also the keynote which is a [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► separate thing for the press it's not [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► really part WABC but it's like the last [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► vestige of the old way that Apple used [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► to do things where they would have [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► keynotes at big events to announce [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► things [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► mmm-hmm all right so that we had move on [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► for W see if I want to have a chance to [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► even getting through my follow up this [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► episode all right let's do our first [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► sponsor then if you will allow it go for [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► its source bits software design and [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► development services for iPhone mobile [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► Mac in the web course iPad that's it I [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► mean you know what I could stop right [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► there say go to source bits calm that's [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► enough because that's what they do this [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► is design what they call design lead [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► engineering this is this is what they're [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► all about you work with these guys their [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► entire process the books are open you [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► say I have an idea for this amazing [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► application doesn't matter what it is [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► it's an iPad app great they can build [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► that ties into a web back-end they'll [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► build that you want an android client [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► later on they'll build that too they've [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► done it they know how to do this stuff [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► and design LED engineering this means [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► the designers drive the entire [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► development process then I'm just there [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► to you know make some kind of concept [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► and melt it into the background their [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► designers their present from [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► conceptualization through every stage of [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► development and QA they're plugged in [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► they're available to you they work with [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► you to take whatever that idea is that [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► you have and they make it happen they've [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► got amazing talent in there and don't [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► take my word for it go to source bits [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► comm and check it out if you have an [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► idea for an app look at their portfolio [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► look at the services they offer look at [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► the talent they have on board [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► that's all that's it I mean did by now [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► if you if you haven't gone to source [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► become I did I don't know what to say [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► I'm upset let's just go to the next [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► let's just go to the next topic what you [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► have things I see you through and show [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► notes link for the fridge toaster yes is [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► that is that permissible [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► yeah I'm behind on my listening to Apple [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► earnings call so I haven't actually [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► listened to the call yet but this was [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► Tim Cook in the Apple quarterly earnings [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► call in which they told everyone that [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► they made all the money in the world [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► again someone I some some person asked [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► one of those inane analyst questions [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► that involved what was the it was the [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► question about like combining the iPad [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► and a laptop I don't know one of those [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► one of those things like what do you [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► think of this Tim [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► you know so and he and his response was [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► about the the wisdom of combining unlike [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► things so he has the quote in the [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► article you can converge a toaster in a [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► refrigerator but those things are [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► probably not going to be pleasing to the [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► user right so I can't say much more [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► about the content of the statement [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► because I haven't listened to the thing [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► yet but I believe the reason you put the [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► link in the story and I think was the [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► New York Times link is because the [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► picture they chose for the toaster in [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► this story it's in the New York Times [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► bits blog is the model up from the [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► toaster that I have it looks the same [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► except there's a double button on the [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► front this is the model with convection [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► right and many people were wondering why [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► of all the toasters that could have put [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► a picture of they put that one in there [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► are they five by five fans or the fans [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► of this house two episode or do they [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► just simply Google for the word toaster [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► to end up like that or is this the [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► default rich person's toaster now I [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► don't know I think we had something to [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► do with it though you think if that was [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► true they would have you know whoever [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► wrote it would have Nick Winfield would [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► have like sent us a Twitter message or [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► done some sort of thing like that I [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► don't know but that's it that's it for [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► that I thought it was curious too I will [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► have probably more to say about what Tim [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► Cook had to say if if he really did [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► reveal anything interesting in his [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► responses but at this point since I'm [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► listening to Tim Cook on earnings calls [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► for a long time I would be very [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► surprised if you let anything slip damn [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► it you know he's he was he's much more [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► controlled than Steve Jobs was unerring [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► his calls it's hard to get him to go off [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► on something that he didn't plan to talk [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► about and I think I think Tim does this [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► thing where not that he has like on you [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► know like an ax late-night talk show [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► where they have agreed on questions [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► beforehand but are they tell he wants [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► people think but he knows certain [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► questions are going to be asked and he [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► leads he wants to say something about a [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► particular topic and he will allow it to [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► happen organically like I want to make a [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► statement about netbooks and I know that [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► someone's probably gonna ask me about [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► netbooks so rather than in my statements [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► or in an answer to an unrelated question [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► going off on some screed about netbooks [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► I'll just sit back and wait patiently [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► for the first guy to ask about netbooks [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► and then I'll say what I have to say [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► about netbook so it so it looks more [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► organic I get the feeling that he does [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► that and I was wondering like if no none [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► of the analysts asked about netbooks [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► would he like offered himself like as [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► part of [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► aside and another answer or something so [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► I'll just new this one maybe have more [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► to say about it I think you get the gist [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► of it from what you've already read I [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► mean obviously yeah you should listen to [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► it but yeah those are mine cold can be [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► boring whether it is reading off numbers [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► but you know I fit it in that's why I [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► haven't gotten to it yet Carsten Burns [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► wrote in among many other people [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► pointing me to this Paris pinball [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► parking advertisement where is that this [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► is an advertisement for some Ford [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► parking assist technology that helps you [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► parallel park better but the fact that [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► they set up in Paris I don't know if [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► that's random enough of this you know [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► people in Paris will you know will do [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► whatever it takes to get into a parking [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► space and so they put two cars next to [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► each other and put a little sensors on [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► their bumpers and put a big scoreboard [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► above it so that when people go to try [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► to park there every time you tap one of [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► the car in front of you and vacuu view [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► your score goes up or is it down I [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► remember anyway I put a link to the [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► YouTube video which again is an ad for [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► Ford but it's also funny and it [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► reinforces our meme about parking in [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► Paris involving hitting other cars so I [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► thought it was worth mentioning will [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► Haynes who apparently is in Tokyo I [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► think he's communicated to us many times [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► but I just went to his blog and it's [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► like hi I'm will Haines from Tokyo well [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► hello will Haines in Tokyo that's cool [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► did an awesome post about these iPhone [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► screen size stuff that we've been [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► discussing in the past few shows it's [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► the same type of thing of like let's [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► make the screen taller according to that [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► rumor and he's doing the thing that [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► several I and several of people mention [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► of like okay try to keep the phone the [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► same size just make the phone bigger and [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► make the area above and below the phone [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► smaller and he did a really nice 3d [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► mock-up of it of just basically taking a [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► it's kind of his own design now he's [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► taking the current look of the iPhone 4s [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► stretch the screen shrunk the area above [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► and below it [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► and it kind of fits like he's done the [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► exact measurements of saying if this was [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► exactly what the rumor said and it was [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► you know exactly this height was one of [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► the specs on it if it was exactly 1152 [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► pixels high this is what the screen [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► would look like and he for the design he [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► decided to try to do a little bit of [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► tweaking most it looks like the 4s but [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► he made it slightly thinner than the 4s [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► is 8.9 six millimeters instead of 9.3 [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► four millimeters and made it feel even [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► thinner by shrinking the antenna band to [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► be thinner and then having [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► rounded back if you look at the picture [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► you might think oh that looks thicker [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► but you're thinking that the band is the [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► same thickness on the 4s actually the [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► band is thinner that's trying to lead to [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► like it feels thinner in your hand [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► because the edge is tapered so I would [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► encourage everyone to take a look at [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► this post and read it and you made a [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► cool video of the thing flying around [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► the stuff of an excellent excellent job [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► and when I look at it it doesn't look [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► crazy to me it looks I look at it my [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► thumb feels a little cramped of like oh [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► would I be able to contort myself to get [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► down to that slightly smaller home [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► button or you know can I still reach all [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► the corners with my thumb I guess having [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► it in my hand would help me know what [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► it's like more but it doesn't look crazy [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► it doesn't look like a really long tall [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► I find he's kept the height basically [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► the same just again just shrunk the area [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► and it looks like plenty of room for the [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► FaceTime camera plenty of room for the [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► speaker that goes in your ear it doesn't [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► look crazy the home button will have to [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► shrink a little bit or get more oblong [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► or something but I was excited to see [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► this picture to see what is possible now [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► I will say that I think it looks a bit [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► too much like the current phone not [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► because I think it's bad but because I [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► think the next iPhone will not look [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► exactly like the iPhone 4s like it what [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► the metal band designer on the outside [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► and just like the overall look of like [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► it looks like a black rounded rectangle [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► with a metal band around it I think [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► Apple wants to change [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► I expect a more radical change within [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► reason like details mostly like it's not [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► going to be you know triangular shaped [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► it still can be around a tall red [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► rectangle that they're going to try to [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► make us thin as they can but in the [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► details I think it will look different [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► even if it's just a change in color [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► scheme or like the back isn't the same [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► color as the front anymore or the whole [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► back is silver or the sides are not [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► completely vertical slab sides anymore [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► and they taper or something like that [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► that's what I expect from it but I [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► really like this post and I link to in [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► the show notes I encourage everyone to [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► check it out and speaking of the iPhone [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► rumors many people picked up on my hint [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► not during the show but but after the [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► show many people picked up on my hint [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► about it I was saying well what can [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► what's the what can you do with the [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► iPhone to make room for this screen if [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► you have to start squeezing this stuff [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► you know making the borders of the [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► things thinner Oh is there a way that [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► you can like move things to the edges [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► and I also said like maybe what if you [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► could like for example take the [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► microphone or speaker or camera and bury [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► it behind the display is that even [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► possible [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► and the Big Apple nerds amongst us one [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► of them including my friend Levi Ock [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► wrote in to tell me that hey they Apple [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► had a patent about putting a camera [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► behind a screen I said yes I know I know [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► that's what I was referring to that this [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► was a long time ago he dug up the story [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► for me which was nice I would have had [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► to Google for it but apparently in July [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► 2007 there was a Apple filed a patent [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► for a camera behind an LCD display and [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► the idea that was that it would capture [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► images like in between the Refresh [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► events on the display with a whole bunch [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► of you know the patent saying that it's [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► you know we'll try to make it so that [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► the the there's no flickering when when [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► the photo was taken or anything like [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► that like if it's continuous video will [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► try to be good about minimizing the the [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► amount of time you need to to take the [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► picture between the display and I think [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► like I think the ideas that would be [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► imperceptible that the screen is [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► refreshing 60 times a second and there's [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► enough time in between each refresh to [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► get an image without light interference [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► again just because it's a patent doesn't [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► mean this is something that actually [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► works you can patent things that have [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► that you've never actually built and [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► that you're not sure even if the work [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► you're just patenting the idea but this [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► is why I was thinking of what can you [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► berieve and screen pigs of this patent [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► and Apple actually had an earlier patent [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► I think so every years before that about [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► another technique to get a camera behind [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► a screen this one involved like sticking [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► the camera between the pixel or [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► something like that so this is a link to [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► Apple Insider story from a while ago [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► it's in the show notes everyone can [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► check it out and remember when looking [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► at any patent story Apple pens all sorts [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► of things and patents do not mean that [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► they even ever had this working let [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► alone that it was they decided it was [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► useful I just like to fantasize about [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► future technologies like that because it [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► sounds cool doesn't it like you just [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► look at the screen one of the things [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► they promotion in the in the patent [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► thing is like you know when you're doing [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► video conferencing you want to look at [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► them and yeah it's like a look to the [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► upper right of your monitor alright it [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► doesn't look like you're looking at the [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► person now we're like a lazy eye or [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► something [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► yeah well bit so that the camera is is [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► directly in the center of your screen [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► you can also put the video window and [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► like an you imagine an iPad or something [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► in the center of your screen then you [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► can look face to face with them so that [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► seems like that seems like a compelling [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► advantage that if Apple were able to [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► pull it off they would say they would [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► like that and maybe they would even [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► advertise that [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► finally face time face to face look [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► right into the eyes of your sweetie [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► [Laughter] [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► so that that's what I was getting at [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► last one but I don't have high hopes for [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► a guy uh Alex and dronov wrote in to [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► tell me that Tom lemon Sally who was the [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► guy who's one of whose books referred to [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► the talking to the bear phenomenon of [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► having talking talking out your problems [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► to it and I'm an object to get the [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► rhythm he was apparently a guest on the [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► Stack Overflow podcast and I listened to [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► every single episode of the stack over [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► her podcast [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► Molly's did way back then I think I [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► basically went off but once Jeff Atwood [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► left it's not just not the same without [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► him but I must have heard that episode [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► so there's yet another possible case [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► we're talking to the bear has entered my [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► subconscious and that's that's where it [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► came out of so I'm glad to know that [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► there are good explanations you know [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► even if I can't remember reading that [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► system in book maybe I just heard the [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► podcast episode maybe that was it I'm an [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► old man it's hard to remember yeah and [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► that's it for my follow-up except for [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► follow up on the gaming show last week [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► but that's almost kind of like a topic [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► so we have three sponsors a speaker two [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► - all right so I can keep going keep [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► going [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► okay gaming first I guess this one final [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► little piece of fall that's tangentially [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► related to gaming I should have [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► protected this guy's name before I [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► started David [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► pussy Aldo oh sorry about that David [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► tweeted me a link to a video from freaks [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► and geeks they show one more show that [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► was cancelled way before its time [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► I enjoyed that show when I was on the [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► air and this episode is about this [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► section of the episode of the Dungeons & [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► Dragons and it's YouTube video probably [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► illegal I don't know if it counts as [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► fair use but it's a pretty long segment [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► there that shows a bunch of nerdy kids [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► talking about D&D and the cool kid [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► character but kind of you know [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► too-cool-for-school character right in [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► in the show is in the scene with them [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► and and they one of the people invites [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► him to play D&D and he's like you know [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► D&D it's kind of it's not for the Nerds [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► or whatever and so he goes and plays the [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► indie with them and he enjoys it because [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► the indie is awesome [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► and at the end of the thing the Nerds [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► are kind of conferred with each other [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► about this idea that like once what's [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► going on here like it are we turning him [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► into a nerd or are are is he turning us [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► into cool guys I don't know like would [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► that that dynamic the person sent this [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► to me because the same kind of thing I [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► was talking about with gaming where [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► gaming with the exclusive refuge the [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► Nerds way back when and then and then [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► they field opened up and that's kind of [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► good and you felt like well more people [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► are enjoying games then you're like yeah [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► if it wasn't this hours and is it [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► getting taken over by cool people or is [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► the reverse we're making everybody into [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► nerds and sort of that discomfort with [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► your clique or your little section of [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► people thought you had a hobby all to [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► yourself and expanding out so from [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► mostly I encourage people to watch abuse [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► freaks and geeks is an awesome show and [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► hopefully from looking at that little [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► segment you will be motivated to go [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► watch it on Netflix or get an iTunes [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► card even know where or how it's [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► available but I highly encourage [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► checking out so that was the appetizer [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► for my my revisit of the topic of gaming [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► and gaming culture and the dilution of [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► gaming culture and all the stuff that I [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► talked about last time as is often the [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► case with something that I talk about on [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► the podcast that I haven't previously [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► written about because writing kind of [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► makes you sort of sort through your [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► ideas and figure out what you really [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► think whereas talking as Merlin [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► frequently says it's like the first [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► draft of his ideas he kind of talked it [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► out and you're trying to learn while [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► you're talking you know the act of doing [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► it helps you come to some sort of [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► conclusion discard ideas or whatever and [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► I think last show definitely did that [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► because I spend a lot of time trying to [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► look at this issue of gaming and the [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► hardcore gamers versus the casual gamers [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► and how that's evolved over time as the [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► market expanded I looked at it from all [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► sorts of different angles and use lots [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► of analogies trying to illuminate the [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► various aspects of my points and some of [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► the analogies for like movie watching [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► wine-tasting sports things where time [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► investment can lead to greater enjoyment [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► you know seeing more movies helps you [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► appreciate new movies more tasting lots [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► of wines helps you sort of understand [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► the different aspects of wine watching a [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► lot of a particular sport can help you [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► appreciate the game more these were all [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► examples of like gaming things where [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► time investment leads to greater [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► enjoyment [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► and I think people mostly accept that [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► idea that investing time leads to [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► experience and knowledge in whatever [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► you're investing in which leads to [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► greater enjoyment of whatever that thing [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► is ah but the problem with analogies is [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► well my problem as the person offering [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► them and the problem of listeners who [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► hear them is that when you're offering [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► analogies it's if you're not careful to [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► highlight which aspect that you think is [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► applicable to the thing you're you're [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► you know you're saying this is analogous [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► to that people may think that you're [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► trying to say the entire thing is [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► analogous and that's my fault for [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► miscommunicating and on the on the flip [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► side there are people who believe that [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► analogies are useless unless the two [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► things are analogous in every possible [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► way and they will say well that analogy [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► makes no sense because this is different [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► than that in aspects X Y & Z and to [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► those people I say analogies don't have [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► to match up in every possible way [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► because then it would just be identity [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► and that wouldn't make any sense so [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► there is a balance to be struck there so [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► I don't know if my analogies were apt or [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► not but the in hindsight after the [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► episode was over and looking at the [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► feedback my crucial mistake in trying to [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► think about and talk about it at this [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► topic is that only one of the things [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► that I was making an analogy with and I [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► think it might have been the first thing [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► but only one of the things that I was [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► making analogy with is directly is [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► directly applicable to the idea of games [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► and that's movies because the key point [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► is that games I was saying were a you [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► know strange form of art and that [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► they're different than other forms of [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► art and ago I would say that sports and [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► wine-tasting are not forms of art people [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► can argue with me and about that or [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► whatever but I firmly believe the games [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► are a form of art and typicals argue [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► about that but that was my key point [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► there it's a it's an art form where time [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► investment is not sufficient for full [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► appreciation it doesn't mean that you [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► know you you do get more enjoyment out [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► of it if you invest time you do get [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► knowledge and experience but that that's [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► necessary but not sufficient for full [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► enjoyment and I thought that was weird [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► because I have trouble thinking of any [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► other art form that's like that [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► certainly sports qualifies that [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► wine-tasting all that other hobbies and [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► skills and activities also require [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► skills and many people pointed that out [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► Nemo and it was clear that I was not [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► focusing this enough and if I had [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► written it I think I would have read it [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► over and real [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► is it it's the fact that I'm considering [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► games in art form and like can you think [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► of another art form that requires skill [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► to get full appreciation of it not just [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► knowledge and you know you could say [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► well knowledge is a skill and being [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► smarts the skill and not just time [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► investment in an experience but mostly [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► when I'm talking about skill I'm talking [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► about things that are not natural for [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► the vast majority of the population to [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► do things that have to be learned and a [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► lot of it is physical things but you [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► know that if you take a cross-section of [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► the entire population and say who would [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► find it easy to pick up the skills to do [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► this thing even if there isn't art that [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► require skills and a lot of arts don't [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► require skills that you know physical [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► skills @kj alien conferences dancing it [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► that's a good example because dancing is [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► an art form and it does require a [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► certain minimum amount of skills to get [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► the full enjoyment out of and just and [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► like gaming I would say you don't have [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► to be an expert dancer to get not every [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► ounce of the enjoyment like super expert [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► dancers are getting like a slightly more [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► enjoyment in you are or maybe not [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► depending on if it becomes like work for [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► them and not and not a hobby but you can [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► get mostly German I would say dancing [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► the history of dancing across all of [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► humanity shows that most human beings [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► have at least the minimum skill set to [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► get most of the enjoyment that you're [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► supposed to get out of dancing from [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► dancing because dancing has been around [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► for a really long time all right but I [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► was I was saying that video games are [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► possibly not unique but novel at least [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► in that the forms of art especially [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► since the forms are out there often [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► compared to like you know writing novels [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► fiction and movies and stuff require so [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► little uncommon skill you just need to [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► be literate and intelligent like it's [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► not it the the larger portion of the [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► population has these skills and so [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► gaming is weird because it's an art form [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► that requires skills that do not appear [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► to be common in the general population [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► and my evidence for this is the small [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► number of people who play and enjoy [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► games that require these skills [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► basically if you make your game require [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► the skills that like the first crop of [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► nerdy gamers had that game is not going [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► to be popular and no matter how much [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► gaming spreads like oh gaming is [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► everywhere now we're [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► it's revealing that certain skills that [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► you know the original gamers or the [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► longtime gamers have those skills just [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► aren't common in the general population [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► and if you make a game that requires [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► them you can't sell to lots of people [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► somebody I talked about last time the [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► way game makers address this by making [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► games that don't require those skills to [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► get them out to more of an audience it's [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► as if the very best dances required [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► skills that so few people could do it [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► was like a fraction of a fraction of the [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► percentage of the entire world could do [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► the special dance and this dance was [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► particularly enjoyable and people who [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► are really serious about dancing say [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► well you know if you you know you're [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► playing you're doing casual dance but [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► you can't do a super complex the way [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► dancing is dancers can correct me but I [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► think a circuit say that if you [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► beautifully execute a simple dance like [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► a waltz that's perfectly valid and a [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► full expression of the form whereas [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► gamers or at least me would say that [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► some of the very best things the gaming [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► has to offer are not accessible to the [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► general public who who don't have these [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► particular skills even if they're [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► willing to put in the time to get the [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► experience and the knowledge and you [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► know that the the other aspects that [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► they can get if they're held out by [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► their lack of physical coordination you [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► know from having this experience we [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► would say you're not getting everything [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► the gaming has to offer you're you're [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► intentionally put into like kiddie [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► gaming where yes it's enjoyable and you [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► get lots of the same things but it's not [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► it's not the best of the best and that's [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► what I thought was very novel about that [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► and I had many changes about sports [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► where you know there are other hobbies [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► they require skill to fully appreciate [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► but again I'm not putting them into a [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► form of art someone can argue with that [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► but like there are examples but get even [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► getting beyond the art thing there are [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► sports that you can enjoy unless you [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► have skills that are not coming the [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► general population again I don't think [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► this is analogous because I don't [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► consider sports a form of art I don't [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► think it's weird that sports require [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► skills because so many of them do [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► require skills but the same continuum [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► exists in sports where there are sports [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► that require skills that the majority of [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► the general population of healthy adults [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► have to an adequate degree to play the [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► sports you know like playing catch [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► that's not that that's a sport but you [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► can do that and the skills of baseball [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► for the most part like even if you can't [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► really [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► hit you can kind of catch and you know [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► like you can get by but there are sports [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► like surfing where that the minimum [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► threshold to be successful in any way to [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► be able to serve to the point where [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► people look at you and say that guy is [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► surfing the amount of the population [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► that can do that is much lower than the [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► amount of pop the population that can [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► play a pickup game of baseball or you [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► know touch football or basketball or any [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► of the other sports that are more [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► accessible so and again these this is [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► not directly analogous because sports [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► are not a form of art but it just a lot [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► of people wrote in about sports as and [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► examples in it maybe think that they [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► sports have a similar continuum where [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► the prevalence of the required skills in [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► the general population defines the [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► popularity of these things for [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► participation spectating is is very [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► different spectating is an entirely [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► different thing and I would not call [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► spectating sports a form of art either [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► so it's also not analogous but I'm [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► talking about doing the sport yourself [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► how many people surf versus how many [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► people play basketball down at their gym [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► and I guess a lot of that is to do with [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► you know proximity to waves and water [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► but you know any sport you want to pick [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► gymnastics or something like there are [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► certain sports that require skills that [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► are not common so I think gaming is [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► weird because it's a form of art that [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► requires skills that are not common and [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► I say that to fully appreciate gaming [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► you can't just stick to the games that [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► the vast majority of like I think people [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► who have the have the skills and maybe [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► they just develop the skills but it's [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► it's a some it's a barrier to entry if [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► they have the skills to play the the [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► what we consider the very best of the [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► best games we're getting an experience [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► that other people are not and it's weird [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► that those experiences are closed off [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► because of skills and the the phrase I [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► kept repeating in the previous show was [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► that it's not a value judgment what I [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► was trying to say with that was that it [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► doesn't make us better people or you [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► know it's not it's not a we're better [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► than you because we can do this thing [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► it's mostly I'm coming at it from a [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► reverse perspective where is [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► disappointing that something you enjoy [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► like you can't share that enjoyment with [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► other people and that's why I was [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► talking about the frustration of trying [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► to get my wife to play games that I [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► really enjoy or you know things that I [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► thought my [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► my parents might like because like the [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► experiences we're having our excess you [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► know where it's the same feelings anyone [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► has it you know excitement do you want [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► to share a gonna share it with somebody [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► would appreciate it want that you what [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► you want to force them somehow to [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► appreciate it seems that you want to [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► share things that you enjoy and the [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► inability to share them is making me [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► think about what's what's different [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► about gaming but it seems like [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► everyone's doing gaming and yet I can't [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► I can't share these experiences that I'm [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► having except with the same like nerdy [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► gamer people who have always been [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► sharing these things but isn't gaming [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► popular now why you know and is it just [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► because are we hit are they having [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► exactly as much fun with Angry Birds as [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► we're having with us I don't think they [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► are [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► I don't think Angry Birds is invoking [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► the same kind of emotions that and [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► experiences to the level that the game [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► kind of games I'm playing are so it's [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► not a we're better than you and we're [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► the gamers and you're the non-gamers [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► that's totally not what about so I'm [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► saying it's not a value judgment there's [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► nothing you know it it is what it is I'm [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► just trying to so it's called the way I [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► see it certain skills have a lower [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► prevalence in the general population and [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► you know I'm sure this is exactly true [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► of many other things that I'm missing a [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► ton because I don't have the skills [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► dancing would be one of those for [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► example but it for me as a gamer it may [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► be think about the other thing I think [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► about and this is that gaming in general [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► is that my parents were very anti video [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► game as many parents of my generate uh [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► you know parents of kids of my [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► generation were why were the anti video [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► game it's hard to really explain was [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► just kind of like scary about the new [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► thing it's kind of like rock-and-roll [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► the kids with their music and their [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► video games but they were very anti [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► gaming and didn't allow me to have game [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► consoles in the house so of course I [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► bought every Mac game known to man which [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► they apparently found was okay because [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► computers are educational anyway parent [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► like parents make no sense ah but then [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► when I went onto my adult life of course [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► I you know bought game consoles and play [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► games or whatever in and as I was [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► changing from teenager into adult my [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► parents would frequently ask you what [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► are you gonna stop playing these video [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► games when you're gonna grow out of this [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► like because video games came along when [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► we were kids it was seen as a kid [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► activity that rots your brain and [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► there's nothing useful about it and they [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► didn't believe when I tell them oh I'm [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► learning excellent you know whatever [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► they can't begin mints but they're [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► always ask me one even now they say a [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► Houston playing video games [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► despite the fact that they will play [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► casual games and stuff like that I see a [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► distinction you know they're they're [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► doing their crossword puzzle on their [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► iPad that's not gaming right and you [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► know even though I have gotten them to [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► try to play some other games getting [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► some German they still see it as an [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► activity that we should grow out of and [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► I always tried to give the analogy of [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► like well when did grandma and grandpa [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► stop playing pinochle like do they stop [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► playing that when they you know they [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► play that their whole life they learned [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► it when they were kids and they played [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► it basically till the day they died and [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► no one ever asked them why don't you [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► know stop playing pinochle isn't that a [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► kids game they'd meet with all their [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► retired friends and play that like every [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► week and no one no one gave them a hard [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► time about it you know or swims and [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► chatrooms is our bridge or any needs [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► other things like certain games you know [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► because they were involved cards or [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► whatever they were grandfathered in [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► right but video games that's something [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► different right and I would always try [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► to give that and then I'll do bounced [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► off they didn't accept it but this [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► another thing that made me think about [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► well so what's different about gaming [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► why do they not accept that analogy [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► because they mean it seems [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► straightforward and I think one of the [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► reasons they don't accept it is because [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► the things they see me doing are things [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► that they've tried to do and have not [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► been able to do and just it's [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► inaccessible to them whereas they can [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► play Pinochle a bridge if they learn the [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► rules maybe they're just not into it but [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► it's not it's not like this this thing [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► that's this other right it's still seen [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► it's this other thing that the kids do [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► that I'm not a part of and can't be a [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► part of and don't want to be a part of [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► and don't don't understand what it is [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► that they're getting out of it and I [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► don't think my parents do understand [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► what I get out of gaming because they've [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► never shared that experience even from [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► watching your level of enjoyment there [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► that's they don't they don't I think [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► it's different I think gaming really is [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► a weird form of art because it's [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► partially participatory and that and [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► that your enjoyment is based on that [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► participation that's also what makes it [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► great is that you are making part of the [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► experience your cell phone because what [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► gives you the tie to the experience [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► because you made it happen it didn't it [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► wasn't just it you didn't just read the [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► book and watch the movie it didn't just [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► unfold before you you know it's the [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► cooperation between you and you know [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► it's the two-way communication across [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► time between you and the creator of this [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► game creating the experience that's [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► unique to you that you have an [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► investment in and I don't know if you [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► can explain that to somebody if they [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► have an experience that I think a lot of [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► gamers can't even articulate it I have [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► trouble [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► Delanie but I certainly know lots of [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► other game is like they know they like [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► games and they play them obsessively and [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► sometimes they complain about them [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► constantly all this in the one podcast [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► where all they ever do is complain about [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► how horrible games are and yet they play [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► like every single any time a new games [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► out that comes out they buy it they try [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► it and I say it's horrible like they're [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► they're chasing that high they want that [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► experience I don't know if most gamers [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► can articulate what it is they get out [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► of gaming but they know it's something [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► right and that's why I think it's so [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► difficult for non-gamers quote-unquote [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► using my definition of the harder things [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► to to understand what's going on there [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► even if you explain it to them because [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► they have an experience in themselves [TS]