The Incomparable

166: I Assume Everyone is Awful


00:00:01   the Intolerable number 166 November 2013 [TS]

00:00:09   welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:11   podcast I'm your host Jason smell and I [TS]

00:00:13   hope we haven't disappointed you have [TS]

00:00:15   you said to yourself you know about a [TS]

00:00:17   hundred and sixty episodes the [TS]

00:00:18   uncomfortable I stopped listening after [TS]

00:00:20   like a hundred because it it just you [TS]

00:00:23   know it didn't work for me anymore well [TS]

00:00:25   I'm glad you somehow turn you into this [TS]

00:00:28   episode after we disappointed you [TS]

00:00:30   because that is the topic of this [TS]

00:00:32   episode disappointments i think most [TS]

00:00:35   particularly in books we're going to be [TS]

00:00:37   talking about authors and series that [TS]

00:00:40   have disappointed us in some way that [TS]

00:00:43   may have made us say I'm gonna I'm gonna [TS]

00:00:45   walk away and then why we would we say [TS]

00:00:48   we would say those things and i have a [TS]

00:00:49   topical reference that I'm gonna drop [TS]

00:00:51   that's the other part of this subject [TS]

00:00:54   before we get there i'm going to [TS]

00:00:55   introduce my panel of lovely people who [TS]

00:00:57   are not bitter at all and have no [TS]

00:00:59   grievances to air tonight [TS]

00:01:00   ok maybe a few first off the the [TS]

00:01:03   sunshine of my life mr. happy himself [TS]

00:01:08   it's scott McNulty high sky hello Jason [TS]

00:01:11   club man i'm applying hi already I feel [TS]

00:01:16   uncomfortable all of a sudden okay fair [TS]

00:01:18   enough fair enough and Morgan is also [TS]

00:01:20   here the morons like my security blanket [TS]

00:01:23   he's on every podcast so that i know [TS]

00:01:25   it's a podcast hi dan I'm the Linus of [TS]

00:01:28   this i guess now you're not like this [TS]

00:01:30   I rely this and you're like it let's [TS]

00:01:33   forget it right then so confusing [TS]

00:01:35   I'm more of a wet blanket i Jason I [TS]

00:01:39   David laura is also here hi David [TS]

00:01:41   I'm Snoopy's will be very quiet tonight [TS]

00:01:44   fair enough [TS]

00:01:45   network this is not the peanuts episode [TS]

00:01:47   though I just home [TS]

00:01:49   don't be clear about that and Lisa [TS]

00:01:51   Schmeisser is here to hi Lisa [TS]

00:01:52   wah-wah-wah-wah are slow cap [TS]

00:01:59   well mr. Mizer maybe this is the peanuts [TS]

00:02:06   episode [TS]

00:02:07   someone had to be the adult so bad great [TS]

00:02:10   yeah it's a it's lisa of course now we [TS]

00:02:14   all go cook kick a football it's great [TS]

00:02:16   no we don't we try to kick a football [TS]

00:02:18   then I got tired of kicking the football [TS]

00:02:20   after about the seventh time I gave up [TS]

00:02:21   on it [TS]

00:02:22   alright so I want to start with talking [TS]

00:02:24   about Orson Scott Card only because in [TS]

00:02:26   this game is coming out and every time I [TS]

00:02:28   bring up Orson Scott Card people give me [TS]

00:02:30   various reactions one of them is that [TS]

00:02:34   they don't like you know he's outspoken [TS]

00:02:36   about he donated money to go to prop [TS]

00:02:40   eight in California he's a he's a member [TS]

00:02:43   of the mormon church but he's also been [TS]

00:02:44   outspoken in lots of ways against sort [TS]

00:02:47   of gay rights and a lot of people are [TS]

00:02:50   really down on him for that may want to [TS]

00:02:51   boycott the movie and they want to [TS]

00:02:52   boycott his books i've also got an [TS]

00:02:54   undercurrent from a lot of people which [TS]

00:02:55   is just like I loved ender's game and [TS]

00:02:58   maybe speaker for the dead and then he [TS]

00:03:00   just kept writing you know he wrote like [TS]

00:03:02   a whole other trilogy of books said in [TS]

00:03:05   that universe ecology JC yeah that was [TS]

00:03:08   Rolla g2 diminishing returns and then he [TS]

00:03:11   wrote he wrote some other series that [TS]

00:03:13   people dropped out so so I i wanted to [TS]

00:03:15   start with him not only because like I [TS]

00:03:17   said entered under steam is coming out i [TS]

00:03:18   just reread ender's game [TS]

00:03:20   I mean really for the first time since i [TS]

00:03:21   read it and whenever 1991 ready for the [TS]

00:03:24   first time and I've read a dozen of his [TS]

00:03:27   books probably and you know I don't I [TS]

00:03:31   mean people give up on writers and give [TS]

00:03:33   up on on series for all sorts of [TS]

00:03:35   different reasons with with card it's [TS]

00:03:37   more complicated because who the guy is [TS]

00:03:40   as opposed to just the quality of the [TS]

00:03:42   work overtime but in some ways I I think [TS]

00:03:46   that's just a valid that that are our [TS]

00:03:48   ideas of who this person is who you know [TS]

00:03:51   you're taking this journey with who's [TS]

00:03:52   that the writer that you're replacing [TS]

00:03:53   yourself and in their hands [TS]

00:03:55   you know that that that can be relevant [TS]

00:03:57   to its not just not knowing anything [TS]

00:04:01   about the writer and just judging them [TS]

00:04:02   on the page so i just want to start by [TS]

00:04:06   mentioning him and saying that i read [TS]

00:04:08   ender's game and you know what I really [TS]

00:04:09   liked it when I reread it I i think it's [TS]

00:04:11   i think it's a fascinating interesting [TS]

00:04:14   weird really weird but good a good book [TS]

00:04:18   and in some ways I think it's a real [TS]

00:04:21   shame that all of the stuff that Orson [TS]

00:04:23   Scott Card has done have turned so many [TS]

00:04:25   people off on him since then you know [TS]

00:04:29   rightly or wrongly I'm not even saying [TS]

00:04:31   that just because you know i think that [TS]

00:04:34   that work and actually speaker for the [TS]

00:04:35   dead [TS]

00:04:36   dad were pretty good and the movie looks [TS]

00:04:38   interesting although they baby [TS]

00:04:40   definitely syfy it up a lot so i don't [TS]

00:04:44   know if you guys have read at red card [TS]

00:04:46   and what your takes on understand on [TS]

00:04:48   card in general are but I thought we'd [TS]

00:04:49   start there Lisa [TS]

00:04:50   what do you think the selfish part of my [TS]

00:04:52   brain always wonders if there's a way [TS]

00:04:53   for me to read these authors it in such [TS]

00:04:56   a way where they'll never benefit [TS]

00:04:57   financially from my attention it's right [TS]

00:04:59   use books [TS]

00:05:01   yeah well yes because um water library [TS]

00:05:05   library mostly i'm still in if i'm still [TS]

00:05:10   kind of trying to unpack it and tease it [TS]

00:05:11   because this goes beyond science fiction [TS]

00:05:13   fandom for example i have deeply [TS]

00:05:16   conflicted feelings about enjoying [TS]

00:05:17   michael jackson's music as much as I do [TS]

00:05:20   given what has come out about his [TS]

00:05:22   behavior [TS]

00:05:23   I'm really uneasy about everything down [TS]

00:05:26   and pay attention to roman polanski film [TS]

00:05:28   for much of the same reason and there is [TS]

00:05:31   that really big question can you [TS]

00:05:34   separate an artist from their work or [TS]

00:05:36   should you even want to I and the only [TS]

00:05:41   answer i've been able to come to with [TS]

00:05:44   that is that it helps to know where the [TS]

00:05:48   artist is coming from or what might be [TS]

00:05:51   driving their work but at the same time [TS]

00:05:54   it's a two-way relationship so you can [TS]

00:05:56   choose to take things from it that they [TS]

00:05:58   may not have intended for you to ahhhh [TS]

00:06:00   the thing that I get out of speaker for [TS]

00:06:02   the dead for example is the concept of [TS]

00:06:04   repent it a lot of speaker of the dead [TS]

00:06:07   is about the concept of repentance and [TS]

00:06:10   right in the right way to do intensely [TS]

00:06:11   moral things and the wrong way to do [TS]

00:06:13   intensely more things and I think in a [TS]

00:06:16   sort of weird funhouse way it's actually [TS]

00:06:18   come back onto the card where he has [TS]

00:06:19   these convictions that a lot of people [TS]

00:06:22   are going to find repellent but it but [TS]

00:06:25   you know he's acting like on those [TS]

00:06:27   convictions and whether or not you think [TS]

00:06:30   it's wrong it's up to you but I almost [TS]

00:06:33   think that that's a separate [TS]

00:06:34   conversation from whether or not you [TS]

00:06:36   should read orson scott card or or or or [TS]

00:06:39   engage in his work [TS]

00:06:41   I think I think you kind of have to take [TS]

00:06:42   the work and the the crater formed on a [TS]

00:06:45   very on a case-by-case basis [TS]

00:06:47   ok what do you think can we separate [TS]

00:06:49   yard from the artist should we I was [TS]

00:06:52   just going to say leesa's exactly right [TS]

00:06:54   it's for me it's a case-by-case thing [TS]

00:06:57   you know i can look at card you know [TS]

00:07:00   I've never read ender's game i've read [TS]

00:07:02   exactly one or skirt Orson Scott Card [TS]

00:07:06   book and it was the abyss and partly [TS]

00:07:10   that was because i was interested in the [TS]

00:07:11   movie didn't see the movie but when hey [TS]

00:07:14   a real science fiction author did this a [TS]

00:07:16   name science fiction author to the book [TS]

00:07:18   so I right you know I'll read it and it [TS]

00:07:21   was good you know is fine but he's you [TS]

00:07:23   know he's working from Cameron's script [TS]

00:07:25   and so I thought well you know what else [TS]

00:07:28   is he written know I've heard of this [TS]

00:07:30   number this but I you know I'd kind of [TS]

00:07:32   burnt out on syfy at the time and by the [TS]

00:07:36   time I came back to syfy I knew much [TS]

00:07:40   more about him and went yeah I don't [TS]

00:07:43   really need to read his stuff but then [TS]

00:07:46   there i mean there are other artists and [TS]

00:07:49   you know like Michael Jackson it's it is [TS]

00:07:51   hard now for me to listen to him but [TS]

00:07:54   even in the midst of when he was alive [TS]

00:07:57   and on trial and all those things was [TS]

00:07:59   still there is there's a thing of oh [TS]

00:08:01   it's still good music you know well I I [TS]

00:08:05   when I go to art galleries and I see [TS]

00:08:07   these are the paintings by these amazing [TS]

00:08:09   artists i mean III went to the vanco [TS]

00:08:13   exhibit in the Rijksmuseum and in in [TS]

00:08:15   amsterdam and my god but he did his [TS]

00:08:18   brother 50 the end you know we talked [TS]

00:08:21   about any of those seven or or or [TS]

00:08:23   Picasso and invited but Pingo is a good [TS]

00:08:26   example is like brilliant artist [TS]

00:08:27   amazingly just a amazing artist but you [TS]

00:08:32   know he was and he had had mental [TS]

00:08:34   illness and he was miserable to the [TS]

00:08:35   people around him and you know at some [TS]

00:08:37   point I don't know do they have to be [TS]

00:08:39   dead and gone before you can finally [TS]

00:08:41   accept the art is what it is and it [TS]

00:08:43   doesn't really matter is it is it is [TS]

00:08:45   adjust that they're out there and alive [TS]

00:08:47   and benefiting from your patronage or or [TS]

00:08:50   is it more insidious than that you have [TS]

00:08:52   to think that you know every time you [TS]

00:08:54   look at the van Gogh painting are you [TS]

00:08:56   are you thinking about you know this may [TS]

00:08:58   be pretty but it's also devastating [TS]

00:09:00   mental illness and it destroyed his [TS]

00:09:02   family and his [TS]

00:09:03   relationships with other people i don't [TS]

00:09:05   know i think it depends on why you're [TS]

00:09:09   engaging with the art I mean if you're [TS]

00:09:11   engaging with the art because you're [TS]

00:09:12   hoping to use it to build a better sense [TS]

00:09:14   of who you are and what your self is [TS]

00:09:15   like you're expecting the art to help [TS]

00:09:17   you clarify your moral or intellectual [TS]

00:09:19   framework for your help looking for a [TS]

00:09:21   tow to reaffirm or flush out who you [TS]

00:09:23   think you are then yeah maybe it doesn't [TS]

00:09:28   matter why this person created what they [TS]

00:09:29   created because you're using that to [TS]

00:09:31   build your own value system but if you [TS]

00:09:34   are looking at it because of its [TS]

00:09:36   perceived literary artistic value in [TS]

00:09:38   other words you're like I want this to [TS]

00:09:39   try and open my mind and provide me [TS]

00:09:42   insight into the human condition or the [TS]

00:09:45   world at large outside of outside of the [TS]

00:09:48   confines of my head I I i need i'm [TS]

00:09:50   searching for a way to look at the world [TS]

00:09:52   or a way to reframe the way I look at [TS]

00:09:55   the world because I I can't just keep [TS]

00:09:57   looking at things in the same way then [TS]

00:09:59   you could argue that doesn't matter what [TS]

00:10:02   the person is like who makes the art [TS]

00:10:03   what matters is how your what matters is [TS]

00:10:06   how you perceive it and what and what [TS]

00:10:07   you take away what person how your [TS]

00:10:09   perspective has shifted and what you're [TS]

00:10:11   taking away from that because if you go [TS]

00:10:13   because the thing is if you go through [TS]

00:10:14   life thinking of the human cost like [TS]

00:10:16   you'll never be able to step into any [TS]

00:10:17   cathedral in Europe because then you're [TS]

00:10:19   thinking oh my god generation upon [TS]

00:10:20   generation of surface that that limited [TS]

00:10:23   mud and crap and all they did was spend [TS]

00:10:25   the entire life carving freezes its [TS]

00:10:26   horrifying you can look at like that and [TS]

00:10:29   there's something to be said for [TS]

00:10:31   recognizing that the human effort or if [TS]

00:10:33   you for example to monticello in [TS]

00:10:35   Virginia you can admire how beautifully [TS]

00:10:38   it's laid out and you can take a look at [TS]

00:10:40   what Thomas Jefferson made and then you [TS]

00:10:42   remember this is the guy who mortgage to [TS]

00:10:44   slaves and refuse to free them upon his [TS]

00:10:45   death because he managed his estate so [TS]

00:10:47   poorly and the method lessons you take [TS]

00:10:49   away from that just depend on what [TS]

00:10:52   you're looking for i think right i mean [TS]

00:10:53   it's it's funny you mentioned van Gogh [TS]

00:10:55   because a couple years ago I wrote a [TS]

00:10:57   play about Van Gogh and so I ain't grid [TS]

00:11:01   way too many of his letters and you know [TS]

00:11:05   it's interesting because you know at the [TS]

00:11:07   time the rest of the art world looked at [TS]

00:11:09   him and went you can't paint what the [TS]

00:11:12   hell is that [TS]

00:11:13   you know they they just rejected [TS]

00:11:15   outright as being art it's like that's [TS]

00:11:17   not even worth being in the same [TS]

00:11:19   conversations go again and you know all [TS]

00:11:23   these impressionist since is on and you [TS]

00:11:25   know and so I mean tempt me his history [TS]

00:11:29   is really tragic i don't look at his art [TS]

00:11:34   and worried about his life because [TS]

00:11:38   everything about his life was tragic [TS]

00:11:42   because of the mental illness and and [TS]

00:11:44   because of the way people were reacting [TS]

00:11:46   to him but you know someone who is [TS]

00:11:48   intentionally going out and harming [TS]

00:11:51   others or is espousing beliefs that are [TS]

00:11:55   exclusionary to others you know tip to [TS]

00:11:58   me that that's more of an intentional [TS]

00:12:00   thing on their part and so it's harder [TS]

00:12:03   for me to look at their art and separate [TS]

00:12:06   that out it's like okay what are you [TS]

00:12:08   trying to say with the art that you're [TS]

00:12:10   making are you trying to send a message [TS]

00:12:11   or are you truly be no objective and [TS]

00:12:15   separate from the artwork of the art you [TS]

00:12:17   know the book or the movie or music or [TS]

00:12:19   whatever it is I don't know [TS]

00:12:21   interesting interesting distinction of [TS]

00:12:23   you know whether it's in their lives or [TS]

00:12:26   whether they're actually trying to use [TS]

00:12:27   their artists Enda a message is that [TS]

00:12:29   message questionable dan and Scott you [TS]

00:12:32   have been silent I i consider you i find [TS]

00:12:35   you guilty i was waiting quietly yes [TS]

00:12:38   yeah what do you think [TS]

00:12:39   well as it i think Lisa hit the nail on [TS]

00:12:40   the head with a sort of what what are [TS]

00:12:42   you trying to do with this and I mean [TS]

00:12:43   there's a value to our that has [TS]

00:12:45   questionable motivations associated with [TS]

00:12:49   it i mean i'm not suggesting everybody [TS]

00:12:52   go out and read mine comp but like [TS]

00:12:53   there's an argument that that's a [TS]

00:12:55   valuable thing to read it just in the [TS]

00:12:56   terms of like from a historical [TS]

00:12:58   perspective or from a you know incisive [TS]

00:13:01   you know looking at what is what goes [TS]

00:13:03   into the construction of AP work like [TS]

00:13:06   this or you know the films of money [TS]

00:13:07   right install be whatever you want to [TS]

00:13:09   sort of the truth there's plenty of art [TS]

00:13:11   that has been made but nothing that [TS]

00:13:12   Scott's favorites [TS]

00:13:14   dammit i also had a Nazi reference and I [TS]

00:13:18   was going to make so I ch3 ch2 the Nazis [TS]

00:13:21   i'm storing one up to [TS]

00:13:22   it's called Godwin's race [TS]

00:13:24   yeah first one to the Nazis terrible [TS]

00:13:31   first one the Nazis losses I yeah I [TS]

00:13:35   don't have card it's interesting because [TS]

00:13:37   i obviously i read him at I don't know [TS]

00:13:40   13 or 14 or something before i had any [TS]

00:13:42   idea of who he was as a person i don't [TS]

00:13:44   think i found that out for years [TS]

00:13:45   afterwards and I stopped reading the [TS]

00:13:48   first series because I just kind of [TS]

00:13:50   thought it was dull like I read ender's [TS]

00:13:51   game I loved ender's game that's like to [TS]

00:13:53   my mind one of the first examples I can [TS]

00:13:56   sort of remember of like the twist [TS]

00:13:58   ending you know and waiting and being [TS]

00:14:00   surprised by an ending but I went on the [TS]

00:14:02   red speaker for the dead and look this [TS]

00:14:04   isn't like ender's game this is terrible [TS]

00:14:05   and I never went on to the last two [TS]

00:14:08   books in that series because I just [TS]

00:14:09   didn't i didn't really care for speaker [TS]

00:14:11   for the dead [TS]

00:14:11   I did however read that entire second [TS]

00:14:14   series of Enders books in the shed the [TS]

00:14:16   beam and roxrite the a shadow the show [TS]

00:14:19   what and and basically I Alec Baldwin [TS]

00:14:23   was a strange choice to play being but [TS]

00:14:25   in my mind like those always sort of [TS]

00:14:27   slotted in somewhere below ender's game [TS]

00:14:29   but someone above somewhere above maybe [TS]

00:14:31   the rest of the original Ender's Game [TS]

00:14:33   trilogy even though I didn't read all of [TS]

00:14:35   it [TS]

00:14:36   i I just I like they're not great but i [TS]

00:14:39   find i found that sort of like [TS]

00:14:40   entertaining in the same way that you [TS]

00:14:41   might read like a Tom Clancy novel you [TS]

00:14:44   know and and to me that's you know they [TS]

00:14:46   had a value in that any tom clancy's not [TS]

00:14:48   even a bad point himself like you know [TS]

00:14:50   there are plenty of writers who are you [TS]

00:14:52   don't politically agree with I mean [TS]

00:14:54   which is you know maybe a step and as [TS]

00:14:57   not as serious from like someone who is [TS]

00:14:59   actively espousing beliefs that are that [TS]

00:15:01   are hateful right but I think there's a [TS]

00:15:03   lot of Peter you certainly read a lot of [TS]

00:15:06   writers who you would disagree with on [TS]

00:15:08   many issues and so the question becomes [TS]

00:15:11   where to draw that line you can't say [TS]

00:15:12   i'm not going to read anything that you [TS]

00:15:14   know by anybody who doesn't agree with [TS]

00:15:15   me because you're not only doing you're [TS]

00:15:18   doing yourself a disservice among other [TS]

00:15:19   things right your not exposing yourself [TS]

00:15:20   to other ideas whether they be awful [TS]

00:15:22   ideas or not we're not saying they have [TS]

00:15:23   a merit to them but you know to a [TS]

00:15:25   certain extent it's not good to wall [TS]

00:15:28   yourself off because in many ways that's [TS]

00:15:30   what those people are doing right you [TS]

00:15:31   know if your spouse completes their [TS]

00:15:33   beliefs their openly hateful and you're [TS]

00:15:35   rejecting these other things out of hand [TS]

00:15:36   you're in some ways no better than [TS]

00:15:38   then if you're just saying i'm going to [TS]

00:15:39   read things that I agree with or authors [TS]

00:15:42   who is your perspectives i agree with so [TS]

00:15:45   I I think for me I try really hard to [TS]

00:15:47   divorce the author I mean it's always [TS]

00:15:50   going to inform it to a certain extent [TS]

00:15:52   but i'd rather judge the work on the [TS]

00:15:54   merits of the work so that way when I [TS]

00:15:56   watch like a Michael Bay movie can be [TS]

00:15:58   like this is awful and I'm not saying [TS]

00:16:01   that cuz i disagree with michael bay but [TS]

00:16:04   rather because i think this is bad and [TS]

00:16:07   you know to me that's where it really [TS]

00:16:08   comes down to is I i think it's worth [TS]

00:16:10   knowing of you know the author's opinion [TS]

00:16:13   but and and perhaps letting that color [TS]

00:16:18   your analysis of it print potentially [TS]

00:16:20   but i don't think we should necessarily [TS]

00:16:22   say we're going to boycott everything [TS]

00:16:25   that we don't agree with because you [TS]

00:16:27   know that does sort of a head down that [TS]

00:16:28   weird road of of you know [TS]

00:16:31   well-intentioned fashion similar gets [TS]

00:16:33   that far how far does that go [TS]

00:16:35   I mean that that's not the point I've [TS]

00:16:36   always made about any boycott is at some [TS]

00:16:38   point where do you draw that line [TS]

00:16:41   because you could draw that line in all [TS]

00:16:43   sorts of ridiculous places there are [TS]

00:16:44   people who are like I I heard you say [TS]

00:16:46   there's some people we work with dan who [TS]

00:16:48   ever i heard you say something bad about [TS]

00:16:51   this political group that i like and [TS]

00:16:54   therefore i'm never going to read your [TS]

00:16:55   stuff again it's like okay I guess you [TS]

00:16:58   could do whatever you want but at some [TS]

00:17:00   point it's just ridiculous and you're [TS]

00:17:02   right you know you should we should be [TS]

00:17:04   tolerant at least your point of of [TS]

00:17:06   people who have got different reason I i [TS]

00:17:08   understand that at some point it crosses [TS]

00:17:10   a line and that line is very is very [TS]

00:17:12   hazy you could choose not to read things [TS]

00:17:14   that you really like make you I mean to [TS]

00:17:16   make you uncomfortable or you that you [TS]

00:17:18   just don't like i mean i think that's [TS]

00:17:20   that's perfectly valid you know it and [TS]

00:17:23   in the interesting thing is always to me [TS]

00:17:25   like there are plenty of books in which [TS]

00:17:28   there are think on tent that people find [TS]

00:17:30   directly objectionable like for example [TS]

00:17:32   I don't know you know I've know very [TS]

00:17:35   little about like Stig Larson and how he [TS]

00:17:37   was a person but I know plenty of people [TS]

00:17:38   who can read his books because they [TS]

00:17:39   thought that it was just a warrant that [TS]

00:17:42   kind of stuff that he detailed yet the [TS]

00:17:43   level of detail of the computers that [TS]

00:17:45   are used by the characters [TS]

00:17:47   books as quick update some whore and [TS]

00:17:49   raizy offense Scott I know you have a [TS]

00:17:54   very detailed rubric that you use when [TS]

00:17:56   determining what books are going to read [TS]

00:17:57   and whether the authors can pass your [TS]

00:17:59   strict ideological tests right i well [TS]

00:18:02   know I i go about judging authors much [TS]

00:18:06   like I go about judging people [TS]

00:18:08   I seen that everyone is awful because [TS]

00:18:13   you know the more you find out about [TS]

00:18:15   someone [TS]

00:18:16   the less you like them gently in my [TS]

00:18:18   experience the Raymond Chandler but if [TS]

00:18:19   you like the book don't meet the author [TS]

00:18:21   exactly so I don't I don't I don't want [TS]

00:18:25   to know anything about the authors that [TS]

00:18:27   i read about because it invariably I [TS]

00:18:29   will find out like some book that i love [TS]

00:18:31   is written by some giant racist who [TS]

00:18:34   hates everybody that will just ruin the [TS]

00:18:37   book for your against Giants I was [TS]

00:18:39   really devastated when I found out that [TS]

00:18:42   marion zimmer bradley had been married [TS]

00:18:43   to a pederast and defended him for years [TS]

00:18:45   I i was very sad about the whole laura [TS]

00:18:48   ingalls wilder and how she's arranging [TS]

00:18:51   libertarian yeah i got i was talking to [TS]

00:18:53   my parents about that the other day and [TS]

00:18:54   I still now I just feel ya you don't [TS]

00:18:56   want to know about it and it's just like [TS]

00:18:58   too much information you're right Scott [TS]

00:18:59   it's um i would recommend people not [TS]

00:19:02   interact with authors whose books a [TS]

00:19:03   treasure on Twitter that's no no no no [TS]

00:19:07   good advice you might say something [TS]

00:19:10   negative about a well-known sci-fi [TS]

00:19:12   writer who's also books in a series that [TS]

00:19:14   kind of didn't go as well later on and [TS]

00:19:18   then it then you interact with him and [TS]

00:19:20   discovered that he's kind of a mean jerk [TS]

00:19:21   it happens which is a pity because I I [TS]

00:19:25   like one of his books very much should i [TS]

00:19:27   do too I do too [TS]

00:19:28   yeah and again it's like let's just keep [TS]

00:19:30   those separate I can't i mean i don't [TS]

00:19:32   think anyone can go through life without [TS]

00:19:33   separating the author from there or the [TS]

00:19:36   artist from their work in some degree or [TS]

00:19:38   another because awful people make [TS]

00:19:41   beautiful things just happens and you [TS]

00:19:44   can appreciate the beautiful thing [TS]

00:19:45   without agreeing with what the awful [TS]

00:19:48   person does and and vice versa right so [TS]

00:19:51   I mean so sure i don't agree with Orson [TS]

00:19:54   Scott Card's views on many things [TS]

00:19:57   but i also think he wrote a fantastic [TS]

00:19:59   book that people should read I don't [TS]

00:20:02   know if the movie will be any good but [TS]

00:20:03   i'm not going to not see it because i [TS]

00:20:05   don't agree with what Orson Scott Card [TS]

00:20:08   things right here we got paid he's [TS]

00:20:09   probably got very little in the in the [TS]

00:20:12   royalties beyond the option for the book [TS]

00:20:15   so you're not actually financially [TS]

00:20:17   harming him by not going and seeing it [TS]

00:20:19   right he's already been paid that I once [TS]

00:20:22   went to see Orson Scott Card talk and [TS]

00:20:25   people should be happy to know that he [TS]

00:20:27   said he is unhappy writing science [TS]

00:20:29   fiction and he wants to direct plays so [TS]

00:20:32   just writing these books to cash it in [TS]

00:20:36   so all right let's take a minute away [TS]

00:20:38   from disappointment to talk about our [TS]

00:20:41   first sponsor so we turn that [TS]

00:20:43   disappointment into excitement over a [TS]

00:20:45   very cool sponsor its warby parker they [TS]

00:20:48   are the rebels of quality I where they [TS]

00:20:51   make really cool vintage inspired I [TS]

00:20:53   glasses regular glasses and sunglasses [TS]

00:20:56   Warby Parker believes that glasses [TS]

00:20:58   should not cost as much as an iphone as [TS]

00:21:02   a brand new iphone their prescription [TS]

00:21:04   glasses start at $95 that includes the [TS]

00:21:07   prescription lenses they're super [TS]

00:21:09   lightweight titanium collection starts [TS]

00:21:12   at only 145 including the lenses every [TS]

00:21:16   pair you get from warby parker has [TS]

00:21:17   anti-reflective in anti-glare coating no [TS]

00:21:20   additional cost [TS]

00:21:21   they don't charge you another hundred [TS]

00:21:22   bucks for that or anything like that no [TS]

00:21:24   additional charge for Parker makes [TS]

00:21:26   buying glasses online easy and risk-free [TS]

00:21:29   this is how they do it they have what's [TS]

00:21:31   called the home try-on program it lets [TS]

00:21:33   you order five pairs of glasses as many [TS]

00:21:35   as five different pairs that you think [TS]

00:21:36   now maybe I look good in that and they [TS]

00:21:39   ship them to you and you can try them on [TS]

00:21:40   at home you can show them to your [TS]

00:21:42   friends you can show them to your family [TS]

00:21:44   you get to keep those 45 days and then [TS]

00:21:46   send them back free using the prepaid [TS]

00:21:48   return shipping label and then when you [TS]

00:21:50   place an order for your final pair of [TS]

00:21:52   prescription glasses [TS]

00:21:54   the one that you like the best out of [TS]

00:21:55   those five let's say they get started on [TS]

00:21:57   them right away you'll have them within [TS]

00:21:58   10 business days so it's internet [TS]

00:22:00   shopping without the risk which is very [TS]

00:22:02   cool [TS]

00:22:03   warby parker cool vintage inspired I [TS]

00:22:06   glasses they look really great [TS]

00:22:08   they started $95 including the lenses [TS]

00:22:11   you can get them to call your eye doctor [TS]

00:22:12   and get your prescription if you don't [TS]

00:22:14   know what it is [TS]

00:22:15   so here's what you do go to warby parker [TS]

00:22:17   com wa rby parrkerr warby parker calm / [TS]

00:22:22   smell my name and select your five home [TS]

00:22:26   try-on frames use that promo code and [TS]

00:22:29   once your glasses ship you'll get your [TS]

00:22:30   glasses within three days by using the [TS]

00:22:32   offer code smell so again warby parker [TS]

00:22:36   the rebels of quality I we're on the [TS]

00:22:37   internet no risk to you try at home up [TS]

00:22:40   to five pairs go to warby parker calm / [TS]

00:22:43   smell and check it out and thanks to [TS]

00:22:46   warby parker and they're very cool [TS]

00:22:48   eyeglasses for sponsoring the [TS]

00:22:50   uncomfortable so ender's game you know [TS]

00:22:53   Scott mentioned it I i just read it [TS]

00:22:54   again it's it's good it's really good i [TS]

00:22:57   think the themes are interesting i think [TS]

00:22:58   it's not only is it you know it [TS]

00:23:01   the pace is good its setting an [TS]

00:23:03   interesting future time eight there [TS]

00:23:07   there's some subtle things in it that I [TS]

00:23:10   didn't really get when I was you know 19 [TS]

00:23:12   or 21 i read it that I got this time I [TS]

00:23:14   he doesn't he doesn't very good things [TS]

00:23:16   in it in terms of setting the stage and [TS]

00:23:20   giving you you know not telling you [TS]

00:23:21   everything about the state the worlds in [TS]

00:23:23   but you you very slowly realize how [TS]

00:23:25   messed up this world is because it's [TS]

00:23:27   been invaded a couple of times by aliens [TS]

00:23:29   it's got a lot of interesting themes [TS]

00:23:33   yeah there's stuff in it that you know [TS]

00:23:35   knowing something about the author you [TS]

00:23:36   look at i highlighted align that is [TS]

00:23:39   talking about Battle School there are a [TS]

00:23:42   few girls they don't often passed the [TS]

00:23:44   test to get in too many centuries of [TS]

00:23:46   evolution are working against them [TS]

00:23:48   yes that's right ladies you've evolved [TS]

00:23:49   to not be in Battle School sorry its [TS]

00:23:52   evolution [TS]

00:23:53   what can you do something in there about [TS]

00:23:56   all the all the generals in the military [TS]

00:23:58   forces being Jewish which I thought was [TS]

00:24:00   bizarre but there's also some really [TS]

00:24:04   beautiful stuff in there [TS]

00:24:06   I you know the fact that it ends but the [TS]

00:24:10   fact that it ends not with the rousing [TS]

00:24:12   victory but with the fact that it's all [TS]

00:24:15   been a trick and start spoiler horn for [TS]

00:24:18   ender's game which was released a [TS]

00:24:21   million years ago I 1985 what I really [TS]

00:24:24   what I really like about the way it ends [TS]

00:24:26   is that it ends up being you know you [TS]

00:24:28   make your main character having [TS]

00:24:31   committed genocide Venus or Serena sighs [TS]

00:24:34   yeah and he and him dealing with that [TS]

00:24:40   and like realizing that he can't stay [TS]

00:24:44   around earth anymore and I I you know I [TS]

00:24:47   thought it was you know fascinating in [TS]

00:24:50   that way too so that I mean there's a [TS]

00:24:51   lot of it and you could do an entire you [TS]

00:24:54   know you could do an entire episode the [TS]

00:24:55   uncomfortable you could do it an entire [TS]

00:24:57   book club at your house invite some [TS]

00:24:59   people over and talk about the themes in [TS]

00:25:02   the book at it I i really do it's too [TS]

00:25:05   bad that it's gotten caught up in some [TS]

00:25:07   ways because although I I don't think [TS]

00:25:08   it's perfect and I do think there might [TS]

00:25:09   be things that people could have jumped [TS]

00:25:11   to in it automatically it's really [TS]

00:25:15   entertaining to read and it's there's a [TS]

00:25:16   lot in it so that's a shame because it [TS]

00:25:18   is i mean he card didn't just shoot [TS]

00:25:21   himself in the foot you know he shot his [TS]

00:25:23   his catalog in the foot by making the [TS]

00:25:25   claims that he made in the and made [TS]

00:25:27   himself unpopular and it's too bad [TS]

00:25:29   because I I'm interested in seeing the [TS]

00:25:31   movie and the book was really great i [TS]

00:25:33   had forgotten how good it was [TS]

00:25:34   so that's my there's my book report [TS]

00:25:36   that's the yeah yeah it's too bad even [TS]

00:25:39   even even that's that sort of things [TS]

00:25:41   like even people who arguably have [TS]

00:25:43   terrible views can produce a work of [TS]

00:25:45   great beauty which this you know that's [TS]

00:25:47   the sad truth of what I hit the nail on [TS]

00:25:49   the head there you know it is there lots [TS]

00:25:51   of awful people who made amazing art and [TS]

00:25:53   I i feel like the one thing I understand [TS]

00:25:55   is people being reluctant to compensate [TS]

00:25:57   awful people who are still alive for the [TS]

00:26:00   aren't they made because they don't want [TS]

00:26:02   to give them money even if the art is [TS]

00:26:04   what it is they don't want to support [TS]

00:26:05   their this awful person's life i get [TS]

00:26:08   that i guess but i don't know there's [TS]

00:26:12   there's a terrific story by harlan [TS]

00:26:14   ellison I anything of wonderful big yeah [TS]

00:26:17   at once it's in the book strange wine [TS]

00:26:23   and it's called Hitler painted roses and [TS]

00:26:26   it's about a man who [TS]

00:26:28   visits he'll basically and I don't think [TS]

00:26:32   he goes in but the gates crack open a [TS]

00:26:35   little bit and at the end of the story [TS]

00:26:37   he just sees the most beautiful painting [TS]

00:26:39   his ever seen and it's just gonna roses [TS]

00:26:42   all over this wall and he looks and the [TS]

00:26:45   artist is you know chart and horrific [TS]

00:26:48   and any and that turns and he realizes [TS]

00:26:51   it's a filler [TS]

00:26:52   yeah and it's the most beautiful thing [TS]

00:26:54   he's ever seen as the gates of Hell [TS]

00:26:56   clothes and that's the end of the story [TS]

00:26:57   and it was like well Harlan would know [TS]

00:27:01   how how I I say that with a shelf of [TS]

00:27:07   Harlan Ellison and yet but your feet [TS]

00:27:09   away from me [TS]

00:27:10   yep this is why I never follow any of my [TS]

00:27:12   favorite authors on Twitter don't do it [TS]

00:27:14   no no no do not do it the only authors [TS]

00:27:17   that I fall I follow I I do follow Neal [TS]

00:27:20   game and john scalzi on Twitter and I [TS]

00:27:22   like I feel like what they're doing on [TS]

00:27:24   Twitter so divorced from their actual [TS]

00:27:26   work that I can do that but if it was i [TS]

00:27:29   I even then i get some some trepidation [TS]

00:27:33   about it's like do I really wanna spend [TS]

00:27:35   a lot of time thinking about neil gaiman [TS]

00:27:38   and and his wife and and all their [TS]

00:27:41   different projects and how peculiar I [TS]

00:27:44   think his wife is the more I learn about [TS]

00:27:46   your game in the the more the more I [TS]

00:27:49   don't want to know that the more warped [TS]

00:27:50   the lens to the job because I don't want [TS]

00:27:52   to know I i enjoyed him when he's [TS]

00:27:55   context-free for me [TS]

00:27:56   yeah I mean oh oh for the days when you [TS]

00:27:58   would get a book and you would see a [TS]

00:28:00   name on the cover and you would know [TS]

00:28:01   nothing about who this person was and [TS]

00:28:03   you just read the book and it was [TS]

00:28:04   completely free of context [TS]

00:28:05   yeah I didn't know it was an expert or [TS]

00:28:07   who this is why i love it when TV show [TS]

00:28:09   runners leave twitter is is I I think [TS]

00:28:12   it's best for Ike I think it's best for [TS]

00:28:14   all involved when when creative [TS]

00:28:15   professionals don't engage with their [TS]

00:28:17   audience on that level because I worry [TS]

00:28:19   that it creates the kind of feedback [TS]

00:28:20   loop where the audience ends up [TS]

00:28:22   contemptuous of of this person oh my god [TS]

00:28:25   this this person whose work I analyzed [TS]

00:28:27   has feet of clay burnham he's a witch [TS]

00:28:29   and I feel like it also introduces a [TS]

00:28:32   level of anxiety or or even [TS]

00:28:34   second-guessing into a creative [TS]

00:28:36   professionals process we're absolutely [TS]

00:28:38   changes their voice and it changes the [TS]

00:28:40   quality of the output [TS]

00:28:41   and so I don't want that i don't i don't [TS]

00:28:43   feel like there should be any need to [TS]

00:28:45   find out what Neil Gaiman amanda palmer [TS]

00:28:48   up to on any given sunday morning [TS]

00:28:50   yeah it's like when Damon Lindelof lift [TS]

00:28:53   Twitter the other week smart in there it [TS]

00:28:55   was very smart of him but he he did it [TS]

00:28:58   with a tweet that's unfinished right [TS]

00:29:00   he's just stops in the middle of a word [TS]

00:29:01   kind of the sopranos that's awesome [TS]

00:29:04   oh my god that's great but I saw a whole [TS]

00:29:07   bunch of people go me and he couldn't [TS]

00:29:09   even end that well it's like what's the [TS]

00:29:11   point that was the point because you [TS]

00:29:14   guys know I recap sons of anarchy for [TS]

00:29:16   television without pay [TS]

00:29:17   yeah and this is the reason I don't [TS]

00:29:20   follow Kurt Sutter on twitter is I don't [TS]

00:29:23   want to know I don't I i actually do not [TS]

00:29:26   feel the need to to find out what any of [TS]

00:29:28   those cats associate with the shower [TS]

00:29:29   thinking or how they're interacting with [TS]

00:29:31   fans because on Twitter their job is to [TS]

00:29:33   present a persona that sells their [TS]

00:29:34   product and I'd rather just look at the [TS]

00:29:37   look at the show on its own merits [TS]

00:29:39   instead and we hate p sub tweeted [TS]

00:29:41   another TV critic friend of mine the [TS]

00:29:43   other week another one in addition to [TS]

00:29:46   have to work because he yes and see [TS]

00:29:48   here's the thing and I say this and next [TS]

00:29:50   thing you know I'm gonna be like he's [TS]

00:29:52   never ever said anything about word that [TS]

00:29:54   I've written so I think he's not aware [TS]

00:29:56   of my existence and that's like under [TS]

00:29:57   the readers gonna follow him is to make [TS]

00:29:59   sure that like I never I never come I [TS]

00:30:01   never crossed the kurt sutter radar [TS]

00:30:02   that's kind of sad in some ways because [TS]

00:30:04   you know i was just i followed Damon [TS]

00:30:06   Lindelof you're just talking about it [TS]

00:30:07   and like he was actually hilarious for [TS]

00:30:09   reasons that had nothing to do with his [TS]

00:30:11   purple yes work and like that's the sad [TS]

00:30:14   thing is that we never do his his awful [TS]

00:30:16   reply stream which was full of jerks all [TS]

00:30:18   i can hear you that's not entirely true [TS]

00:30:20   because actually he retweeted oh that's [TS]

00:30:22   right a bit but you know there is a [TS]

00:30:25   thing about that there is a you know an [TS]

00:30:27   issue with that where it's just sort of [TS]

00:30:29   like what do you do you know how it can [TS]

00:30:32   an author or creator be on there and [TS]

00:30:35   just be like talking about their mundane [TS]

00:30:36   stuff or just even that develop grit [TS]

00:30:38   sand and Scott and I try very hard not [TS]

00:30:41   to follow Sean Maguire on twitter [TS]

00:30:43   because I might have my humanize her and [TS]

00:30:45   then we wouldn't we would be sad about [TS]

00:30:47   saying mean things about all of the [TS]

00:30:49   mirror grant books by the way [TS]

00:30:50   well as we're recording this a new [TS]

00:30:52   mirror grant book was released released [TS]

00:30:54   today [TS]

00:30:55   parasite so get ready i'm not really and [TS]

00:30:58   so the the other side of it is good [TS]

00:31:00   people can make awful art yeah yeah [TS]

00:31:03   actually this is true this is true too [TS]

00:31:05   so it's that's the date that's the [TS]

00:31:07   danger it's the old my friend wrote a [TS]

00:31:09   book do you know [TS]

00:31:10   hey do you want to read it sure oh my [TS]

00:31:12   god it's horrible what do I say right oh [TS]

00:31:15   yeah I had to stop doing that with plays [TS]

00:31:17   interesting font well you know to speak [TS]

00:31:19   of the whole could be good people make [TS]

00:31:21   terrible art that people make good art [TS]

00:31:22   in good in good omens which is [TS]

00:31:24   co-written by Neil Gaiman and terry [TS]

00:31:26   pratchett they have a theory that most [TS]

00:31:29   of the musicians end up in Hell except [TS]

00:31:30   for like online hate and they're like [TS]

00:31:32   yeah I have been super boring from a [TS]

00:31:33   musical perspective good musicians are [TS]

00:31:35   terrible people right and I enjoyed that [TS]

00:31:38   little that little throwaway true [TS]

00:31:39   although I yeah although I will admit [TS]

00:31:42   that i have a non-critical adoration for [TS]

00:31:44   terry pratchett because he seems like a [TS]

00:31:45   really interesting and easy-to-use he's [TS]

00:31:48   delightful man i know i've seen him [TS]

00:31:50   speak its argument once it was great [TS]

00:31:52   it's another episode that we haven't [TS]

00:31:53   done the terry pratchett episode I'll [TS]

00:31:55   just tell me how to host when I believe [TS]

00:31:57   that but I've only read a couple I way [TS]

00:31:59   we can do it i will have only read a [TS]

00:32:00   couple of his books but yes you can [TS]

00:32:03   again i have read every discworld book [TS]

00:32:05   even like the children's books but now [TS]

00:32:08   I'd like to blow the sponsor trumpet for [TS]

00:32:11   a moment deter it's time for our second [TS]

00:32:13   sponsor and it's are returning sponsor [TS]

00:32:16   that we love so much its hostgator [TS]

00:32:17   hostgator.com is a premier web hosting [TS]

00:32:20   and domain name provider if you're [TS]

00:32:22   looking to start a website hostgator can [TS]

00:32:24   help you get started with monthly [TS]

00:32:25   hosting plans [TS]

00:32:26   they've got one click installs and tons [TS]

00:32:28   of other features that make getting your [TS]

00:32:30   site up and running [TS]

00:32:31   easy and that's the whole point here if [TS]

00:32:33   you're a more advanced user or business [TS]

00:32:35   host Gators got you covered there [TS]

00:32:37   reseller plans VPS dedicated servers and [TS]

00:32:41   this is my favorite part [TS]

00:32:42   hostgator guarantees 99.9 percent up [TS]

00:32:46   time no matter your size or needs if you [TS]

00:32:48   like to use WordPress there's a [TS]

00:32:50   one-click install to get going with [TS]

00:32:51   wordpress and there's an optimized [TS]

00:32:53   hosting platform when you're hosting [TS]

00:32:55   with hostgator you get unlimited disk [TS]

00:32:57   space store all you like and unlimited [TS]

00:33:00   bandwidth which is really awesome [TS]

00:33:03   they have free site builder tools that [TS]

00:33:04   are super easy to use and if you find [TS]

00:33:06   yourself needing any help [TS]

00:33:07   there's 24 7 [TS]

00:33:08   board to make sure everything is running [TS]

00:33:10   smoothly so head on over to [TS]

00:33:12   hostgator.com thos TG 8000 are like [TS]

00:33:15   alligator hostgator.com to learn more [TS]

00:33:18   when you decide to purchase don't forget [TS]

00:33:20   to use the best coupon code on the [TS]

00:33:22   internet its smell sent me ten SME ll s [TS]

00:33:26   ENT me10 snow sent me ten all one word [TS]

00:33:31   and get thirty percent off everything [TS]

00:33:34   that's right everything at hostgator.com [TS]

00:33:36   and thank you once again to the good [TS]

00:33:38   people at hostgator for sponsoring the [TS]

00:33:40   incomparable let's talk about series and [TS]

00:33:42   and authors who have let us down because [TS]

00:33:44   Lisa you just said that you've read all [TS]

00:33:46   the Discworld books so obviously you [TS]

00:33:48   never felt the need to abandon terry [TS]

00:33:50   pratchett during during that path but [TS]

00:33:52   now i know i know that there are things [TS]

00:33:55   that you started out as something to eat [TS]

00:33:56   that that you all loved and that it [TS]

00:34:00   didn't end well right is that the [TS]

00:34:01   initial rush of the relationship it's [TS]

00:34:03   everything's great everything's doing [TS]

00:34:05   really well this is true for for we're [TS]

00:34:07   talking about books here but it's really [TS]

00:34:08   true of all art and then and then after [TS]

00:34:10   a while like oh yeah I don't know it's [TS]

00:34:13   not working for me anymore [TS]

00:34:14   we basically about you it's not [TS]

00:34:16   everything wait wait it is you o.o i [TS]

00:34:19   have i have i'm sure i've ranted about [TS]

00:34:21   others but the two it's from the mind [TS]

00:34:24   when I remember I was doing this podcast [TS]

00:34:26   I'm a huge part i'm not huge but a [TS]

00:34:32   fairly added John Varley fan and i don't [TS]

00:34:36   know how many of you guys have read John [TS]

00:34:37   Varley but yeah he's he's known he's [TS]

00:34:43   written a couple different world [TS]

00:34:44   building efforts what the most [TS]

00:34:45   interesting to me is the eighth world [TS]

00:34:47   where the idea is that humanity was run [TS]

00:34:49   off by humanity was run off the planet [TS]

00:34:51   earth by a superior alien intelligence [TS]

00:34:54   that regards them as viruses and turns [TS]

00:34:56   the planet over to the cetaceans and so [TS]

00:34:58   as a result people have to colonize the [TS]

00:35:02   orbiting moons in the solar system and a [TS]

00:35:05   lot of the eighth world stuff he does [TS]

00:35:06   talks about their short stories that [TS]

00:35:08   talk about the kind of scientific or [TS]

00:35:10   social developments that let you meant [TS]

00:35:12   to keep on being humanity and then he's [TS]

00:35:14   got a series which which is called the [TS]

00:35:15   gay a trilogy which is a pretty tightly [TS]

00:35:17   written series um in 2003 he launched a [TS]

00:35:21   new series about [TS]

00:35:22   Martian exploration the thunder [TS]

00:35:24   lightning series and red Thunder is a [TS]

00:35:25   really good book [TS]

00:35:26   it's a it's it's a breezy read but it [TS]

00:35:31   doesn't shy away from because he wrote [TS]

00:35:34   it right around the time it is a very [TS]

00:35:36   post-911 book a lot of ways and it's [TS]

00:35:38   it's a fairly even-handed look at how [TS]

00:35:40   people might react 10 15 years down the [TS]

00:35:44   line how when you get focused on things [TS]

00:35:49   like like fuel scarcity or political [TS]

00:35:51   paranoia really big ambitious projects [TS]

00:35:53   like SpaceX exploration are huge [TS]

00:35:55   casualties and how that ultimately [TS]

00:35:56   detrimental to to who we are as a [TS]

00:35:58   society we don't have the shared goals [TS]

00:36:00   we don't have anything bigger to look at [TS]

00:36:01   and so red lightning is a really good [TS]

00:36:03   book Rolling Thunder which is the second [TS]

00:36:05   outweigh red thunder is the first book [TS]

00:36:07   it's great red lightning second book [TS]

00:36:09   it's not bad there's it's about Mars [TS]

00:36:12   declaring its independence from from [TS]

00:36:14   Earth so the third book Rolling Thunder [TS]

00:36:16   is awful awful awful and I have [TS]

00:36:20   literally in by this point um the author [TS]

00:36:23   has basically written what it reads like [TS]

00:36:26   a dirty old man's letter to the editor [TS]

00:36:28   where I was an idiot savant who develop [TS]

00:36:32   some form of hyperspace travel but have [TS]

00:36:34   the IQ of a twelve-year-old the rest of [TS]

00:36:35   the time however the 6-foot tall sexy [TS]

00:36:37   amazon has decided that i'm the one for [TS]

00:36:40   her and I was just so angered by how [TS]

00:36:44   that turned out that that I oh I'm done [TS]

00:36:47   I'm done I i had to put on the book [TS]

00:36:49   halfway through I'm unfinished uh-huh [TS]

00:36:51   no no no and now varley's released like [TS]

00:36:53   one more novel slow apocalypse and I [TS]

00:36:55   can't bring myself to purchase it [TS]

00:36:57   because I don't even want to know where [TS]

00:36:59   it's going to go but this is like [TS]

00:37:02   recommendations and a nun [TS]

00:37:05   recommendations i read this book then [TS]

00:37:07   stop [TS]

00:37:08   I went yeah i would i would actually if [TS]

00:37:11   it's john hurley anything he's written [TS]

00:37:13   before 2003 i would i would recommend [TS]

00:37:15   without hesitation and stop and then [TS]

00:37:17   stop [TS]

00:37:18   are you sure this isn't more like [TS]

00:37:19   therapy could but what for me or for him [TS]

00:37:23   differently the ross yeah show us where [TS]

00:37:28   the bad author hurt your feeling about [TS]

00:37:30   how does that make you feel Issa I [TS]

00:37:33   podcasting therapy III [TS]

00:37:34   headed down I'm just saying that's the [TS]

00:37:36   fitness a real thing well so the thing [TS]

00:37:38   that's that I've always fun really great [TS]

00:37:41   about John Varley is he's one of the few [TS]

00:37:42   male hard sci-fi authors who writes [TS]

00:37:45   women as protagonists and and nodded and [TS]

00:37:47   who I'm so transgressive way he just [TS]

00:37:49   write them as people like two of his [TS]

00:37:51   strongest characters are the policewoman [TS]

00:37:53   and Louise bak who's in a lot of the [TS]

00:37:56   eight worlds short story and eight world [TS]

00:37:58   short stories and the heroine of the gay [TS]

00:38:01   trilogy scirocco scirocco Jones um see I [TS]

00:38:05   want to make a coupling reference here [TS]

00:38:07   but now I feel mad i said i was going to [TS]

00:38:08   rock Obama i was usually rights women's [TS]

00:38:12   people you know in many ways Lisa they [TS]

00:38:15   are nothing and um I will admit when I [TS]

00:38:20   first started reading him as a young [TS]

00:38:22   woman in my teens and in my twenties a [TS]

00:38:24   lot of short stories deal with things [TS]

00:38:27   like say 12 and 14 year olds having sex [TS]

00:38:31   with adults and that's just a cultural [TS]

00:38:32   thing and i was looking back you know [TS]

00:38:34   head explodes because I'm 16 or 17 but [TS]

00:38:38   he also explores the notion that gender [TS]

00:38:39   is fluid and you should have the option [TS]

00:38:41   of changing your biology to reflect you [TS]

00:38:43   feel like you're inside and it was [TS]

00:38:45   remarkably for forward-looking treatment [TS]

00:38:49   of gender in the seventies and eighties [TS]

00:38:50   and he had a lot of pretty caustic and [TS]

00:38:53   interesting things to say about society [TS]

00:38:54   building Rolling Thunder just made me [TS]

00:38:57   sad because again it feels like you know [TS]

00:38:59   after after years of sensitive and [TS]

00:39:01   intelligent assessments of the wage it [TS]

00:39:04   gender and society are our bizarre [TS]

00:39:07   feedback loop it turns into oh she's a [TS]

00:39:10   she's a 6-foot Martian who hates to work [TS]

00:39:12   clothes [TS]

00:39:13   he's an idiot savant wonder who invents [TS]

00:39:15   hyperspace travel together they are [TS]

00:39:17   yes bring their way through 3rd web is [TS]

00:39:20   to get together hold on [TS]

00:39:22   ya know it was just it was just it felt [TS]

00:39:24   like a betrayal of everything that he [TS]

00:39:27   had done in his earlier work where he [TS]

00:39:29   had had these very nuanced picture [TS]

00:39:30   pictures of the weight of why people [TS]

00:39:32   choose to have relationships and had [TS]

00:39:34   reduced and said his titular heroin to [TS]

00:39:36   this this this bouncy sex object I i was [TS]

00:39:40   really kind of offended by that at least [TS]

00:39:42   the bad news is john farley is a [TS]

00:39:43   incredibly generous person who gives to [TS]

00:39:45   charity and notice people at the local [TS]

00:39:48   soup kitchen how did and he's a [TS]

00:39:50   wonderful person how dare you say [TS]

00:39:51   terrible things about no wait wait a [TS]

00:39:53   second that's not that's the different [TS]

00:39:54   podcast Scott do you have anybody who's [TS]

00:39:56   wronged you [TS]

00:39:57   well author really haha in that case [TS]

00:40:02   it'll make your head [TS]

00:40:04   I have to redo a lot of worry and they [TS]

00:40:08   say I know the first five pages or just [TS]

00:40:10   an overdose show you this is a creepy at [TS]

00:40:13   all [TS]

00:40:14   I well I think that there is a kind of a [TS]

00:40:17   classic one that I know I'm not the only [TS]

00:40:19   person who thinks that Frank Herbert oh [TS]

00:40:24   yes he has written a masterpiece in doom [TS]

00:40:27   and whatever you do read nothing else by [TS]

00:40:31   him or else you will be very sad i [TS]

00:40:35   thought as my met my recollection is [TS]

00:40:37   that the second doing book is ok that's [TS]

00:40:39   where I stopped [TS]

00:40:40   yeah and then I tried to read the third [TS]

00:40:43   one and I'm so I guess technically I'm [TS]

00:40:46   still trying and I never finished it was [TS]

00:40:50   a book ever really don't give up the [TS]

00:40:53   fight [TS]

00:40:53   no reason I i got about halfway through [TS]

00:40:55   God improve doing which is the fourth [TS]

00:40:57   one and you know after about a hundred [TS]

00:41:00   pages from the point of view of what's [TS]

00:41:03   his name turned into a sandworm i just [TS]

00:41:07   went no I'm down [TS]

00:41:08   I god no but let's be clear to dune [TS]

00:41:11   although classic the first what 250 [TS]

00:41:14   pages three other pages is pretty pretty [TS]

00:41:16   hard rowing 02 right before really it [TS]

00:41:20   starts to pick up after that they'll [TS]

00:41:21   really mr. to move after 3 h 300 but [TS]

00:41:24   don't yet don't stick up there and the [TS]

00:41:27   other one that i think i've talked about [TS]

00:41:29   before is a the wheel of time i'll see [TS]

00:41:33   you so mine so I know that people have [TS]

00:41:36   made that I could not read the first [TS]

00:41:39   book i got like a hundred pages in and [TS]

00:41:41   some kid was walking through a village [TS]

00:41:43   the entire time [TS]

00:41:44   it's like I don't care and I stop [TS]

00:41:48   freaking i read seven of them and that [TS]

00:41:52   was like up to the point where they were [TS]

00:41:54   like I think i read them when I was like [TS]

00:41:56   15 or 16 or something and you know that [TS]

00:41:58   was the most recent one that I come out [TS]

00:42:00   with the seventh one I [TS]

00:42:01   the own the eighth one it was a [TS]

00:42:02   Christmas gift never read it and then [TS]

00:42:04   what they're like 13 14 in total i mean [TS]

00:42:08   they got taken over by a brandon [TS]

00:42:09   sanderson after robert jordan passed [TS]

00:42:11   away over [TS]

00:42:12   yeah well not so hostile the robert [TS]

00:42:15   jordan thing for me part of it was just [TS]

00:42:17   the inertia of it like I got to the i [TS]

00:42:20   finished seventh 1 the eighth one came [TS]

00:42:22   out like years later and it was that [TS]

00:42:23   moment of oh my god i will have to [TS]

00:42:25   reread those first seven books to [TS]

00:42:26   remember what the hell happened [TS]

00:42:28   no it wasn't that good yeah I think I [TS]

00:42:33   can sort of piece together where this [TS]

00:42:34   whole series was going so yeah that was [TS]

00:42:36   that was one of mine for sure the other [TS]

00:42:40   one I had was a charles stross actually [TS]

00:42:42   I read the first book of his a merchant [TS]

00:42:46   Prince's series is actually kind of [TS]

00:42:48   entertaining you know has to deal with [TS]

00:42:50   like parallel universes and people can [TS]

00:42:53   jump between these parallel universes [TS]

00:42:55   and then there's one that's more like [TS]

00:42:56   medieval and one that's more colonial [TS]

00:42:58   and like the first book was pretty good [TS]

00:43:00   and kind of it ended where he like [TS]

00:43:02   killed a character what i thought was [TS]

00:43:03   like one of the more sympathetic [TS]

00:43:05   characters which you know sometimes you [TS]

00:43:06   can get away with and then I realized [TS]

00:43:08   reading the next few books like kinda [TS]

00:43:11   hate everybody else in this room and [TS]

00:43:13   then it just kind of goes off the rails [TS]

00:43:14   and like they're like they're finding [TS]

00:43:16   more parallel universes and I'm like all [TS]

00:43:18   right you need to be like a wrapping [TS]

00:43:20   this up not quite like expanding the [TS]

00:43:22   scope so I'm fortunate I've read i read [TS]

00:43:25   some stuff I've enjoyed by him but like [TS]

00:43:26   that series just to me just took a sharp [TS]

00:43:29   left turn into crazy town [TS]

00:43:30   well that's not the crazy to have cut [TS]

00:43:31   off you have to make with hard left [TS]

00:43:33   otherwise you go straight to go off a [TS]

00:43:35   cliff that geography crazy town [TS]

00:43:37   it's confusing because it's you know [TS]

00:43:38   it's crazy down its crazy town [TS]

00:43:40   forget it Jake it's crazy hey David you [TS]

00:43:42   have a any examples of those who series [TS]

00:43:45   or authors who've wronged you [TS]

00:43:47   well a couple I mean you know a lot of [TS]

00:43:50   these books like dune and and wheel of [TS]

00:43:52   time and and game of thrones I I mean [TS]

00:43:55   the control right now I now take that [TS]

00:43:58   george RR martin I wasn't you know [TS]

00:44:01   invested in themselves are like well [TS]

00:44:04   alright they're just not for me but then [TS]

00:44:08   there are some things where it's like [TS]

00:44:09   what's the old Dorothy Parker line this [TS]

00:44:11   is not a book to be tossed aside lightly [TS]

00:44:14   it should be thrown with [TS]

00:44:15   great force yes that would be got [TS]

00:44:17   improve dude but is the the authors who [TS]

00:44:23   disappointed me and this might be heresy [TS]

00:44:27   to anne mccaffrey Oh give a choice [TS]

00:44:31   yeah I you know I love the first 3 / [TS]

00:44:33   novels and I you know the Harper all [TS]

00:44:37   books were in all right i didn't really [TS]

00:44:40   you know but I read the mother for [TS]

00:44:41   little kids [TS]

00:44:43   compare yeah the dream yeah I started [TS]

00:44:45   and they just kept going and going you [TS]

00:44:48   know number words when they do you [TS]

00:44:50   discover the AI and he has them invent a [TS]

00:44:52   you know this is silicon glass and that [TS]

00:44:54   he hasn't reinvent spacesuits and and [TS]

00:44:57   taking the drains into space [TS]

00:44:59   ah if I thought that was an awesome know [TS]

00:45:02   it sounds awesome [TS]

00:45:04   I that was the 1i think that's the last [TS]

00:45:06   one that for me it really has been light [TS]

00:45:08   generating here's how you and your [TS]

00:45:09   microphase don't wait what the world [TS]

00:45:13   with dragons and that he has a good [TS]

00:45:15   here's how you manufacture insulated [TS]

00:45:17   spaces for dragons and wait wait yeah [TS]

00:45:20   and while just gonna win [TS]

00:45:22   i I can't talk about but then again i [TS]

00:45:23   read it like 15 minutes of continued as [TS]

00:45:26   like I got so I think it was for me [TS]

00:45:28   again it was really when she started [TS]

00:45:29   like often characters know and like [TS]

00:45:32   focusing on characters that I didn't [TS]

00:45:34   care about and really yeah the last few [TS]

00:45:36   one sadly the last few that she wrote [TS]

00:45:38   which I think we're mainly written by [TS]

00:45:39   her son i believe oh I tried to read [TS]

00:45:42   what i resigned over just they're just [TS]

00:45:44   really boring like it's you're like okay [TS]

00:45:46   you know the same for character is [TS]

00:45:48   exactly the same plots is the same plots [TS]

00:45:50   yeah yeah [TS]

00:45:51   swishing filmic fiction which is the [TS]

00:45:53   worst type of fiction it's I i remember [TS]

00:45:56   when Rita dragon lady of Pern came out [TS]

00:45:58   on and that that was such a big thing [TS]

00:46:01   because it had been so many years and [TS]

00:46:03   she put out a prayer novel right since [TS]

00:46:05   it was like this big event right and so [TS]

00:46:07   yeah the more they just went on was like [TS]

00:46:09   oh well I still love the first well [TS]

00:46:12   that's factors involved here I mean you [TS]

00:46:15   mentioned it the age to some of this is [TS]

00:46:17   you discover something as a kid and you [TS]

00:46:19   love it and it and it literally is it's [TS]

00:46:22   not you it's me it's like I grew up and [TS]

00:46:25   you're the flaws of these this series [TS]

00:46:27   were revealed because [TS]

00:46:28   I was no longer that impressionable [TS]

00:46:29   starry-eyed thirteen-year-old was [TS]

00:46:31   reading them or you know and so that's [TS]

00:46:35   going on and then simultaneously you [TS]

00:46:37   know you're not no longer reading the [TS]

00:46:39   first or second book in the series that [TS]

00:46:40   made it famous [TS]

00:46:41   you're reading books seven and things [TS]

00:46:43   may be kind of their they're patting it [TS]

00:46:46   out because this is serious become [TS]

00:46:48   profitable and then so that's working [TS]

00:46:51   against it too so it means that I [TS]

00:46:53   suppose that really happens all the time [TS]

00:46:55   I can remember being a teenager and [TS]

00:46:56   picking up the mall or e ad which were [TS]

00:46:58   the David reading books that following [TS]

00:47:01   reading books about the belgariad and i [TS]

00:47:03   remember reading through the malaria and [TS]

00:47:04   the first one being like a repetitious [TS]

00:47:07   phrases and then you know the [TS]

00:47:08   characterizations kind of flat like 15 I [TS]

00:47:11   can figure this out so I under [TS]

00:47:14   well I understand if you create this [TS]

00:47:15   fictitious world i understand that you [TS]

00:47:17   know you've built this world and you're [TS]

00:47:18   invested in it and maybe you're writing [TS]

00:47:20   them for you and for your own personal [TS]

00:47:23   gratification as much as you are for the [TS]

00:47:25   money they bring in um for example one [TS]

00:47:28   of my favorite series stopped after [TS]

00:47:30   three books written by very very heart [TS]

00:47:32   or hearts it's aah ugh [TS]

00:47:35   hey Artie and he starts the first 1i [TS]

00:47:39   think it's called the bridge of birds [TS]

00:47:41   and there's it's their set in an [TS]

00:47:43   alternate alternate medieval china for [TS]

00:47:46   under medieval china isn't the right [TS]

00:47:48   word but it's basically one of the [TS]

00:47:50   Imperial dynasties and it's about an [TS]

00:47:53   ancient sage and his his young dominance [TS]

00:47:56   of an incredibly compassionate companion [TS]

00:47:58   and how they outwit magic and tricksters [TS]

00:48:01   and Dragons and Larry since i can't [TS]

00:48:05   pronounce his last name is dr. after [TS]

00:48:06   stopped reading after book 3 because as [TS]

00:48:09   he explained to the press it wasn't [TS]

00:48:10   renew motive I wasn't selling enough of [TS]

00:48:12   these to justify the time and in [TS]

00:48:13   research i was putting into them so [TS]

00:48:15   screw you i said i'm now a bookseller [TS]

00:48:18   because it's a lot more money than that [TS]

00:48:19   then when I was wrong and author you [TS]

00:48:21   know my kids love the ricky ricardo [TS]

00:48:24   series by Dave pilkey and that's that's [TS]

00:48:27   a book for every planet in the Solar [TS]

00:48:29   System and and in the the I think [TS]

00:48:33   Jupiter book or the saturn book and [TS]

00:48:35   promises what the next book is going to [TS]

00:48:37   be and what happened is that captain [TS]

00:48:39   underpants which day pilkey also does [TS]

00:48:42   became a wild hit and and and then four [TS]

00:48:45   years what they would say and and didn't [TS]

00:48:47   have my wife the library they'd be like [TS]

00:48:48   where's the next week here accounting [TS]

00:48:50   book we did all the research too because [TS]

00:48:51   it said there was another one said the [TS]

00:48:52   Neptune book it's coming and and it [TS]

00:48:54   turns out that the Assad answer that you [TS]

00:48:56   don't want to tell a child who wants to [TS]

00:48:58   know where the next Ricky Ricardo book [TS]

00:48:59   that they were promised is is Captain [TS]

00:49:01   Underpants proved to be far more [TS]

00:49:03   profitable and therefore these books [TS]

00:49:05   will not be written and it turns out [TS]

00:49:06   they actually will they're going back in [TS]

00:49:08   print with an illustrator and that just [TS]

00:49:10   came out a month ago but it was [TS]

00:49:12   definitely one of those things with the [TS]

00:49:13   Commerce came and it was like I have I [TS]

00:49:15   have a more popular series over there so [TS]

00:49:17   screw you guys I'm going over there [TS]

00:49:20   alright that's sad but you know I can [TS]

00:49:23   see I can see where it's really nice to [TS]

00:49:25   mean in a way i really like the JK [TS]

00:49:27   Rowling the weight i love the way she [TS]

00:49:29   personally potter and that she spent [TS]

00:49:31   five years just planning her world she [TS]

00:49:33   brought her seven books she's knocked [TS]

00:49:35   off like a few you know mythical beast [TS]

00:49:37   or whatever as as you know supporting [TS]

00:49:39   projects but she's not coming back with [TS]

00:49:40   you know harry potter and the [TS]

00:49:42   increasingly gnarly lon project her or [TS]

00:49:45   whatever it would be like harry potter [TS]

00:49:47   and the vagaries of middle-aged yes [TS]

00:49:49   yeah she's like I'm gonna happen i'm [TS]

00:49:52   done and I hope it doesn't happen but I [TS]

00:49:54   like that she wasn't and it helps that [TS]

00:49:55   she's made like frilly unless he goes [TS]

00:49:57   and she doesn't need any more money so [TS]

00:49:59   she can but I like that she had a [TS]

00:50:00   beginning and an ending because I think [TS]

00:50:02   sometimes our authors they've invested [TS]

00:50:03   so much time and energy it's hard to let [TS]

00:50:06   go and say goodbye Harry Potter is [TS]

00:50:09   another one that I stopped breathing [TS]

00:50:10   uh I i did stop after the 14 that she [TS]

00:50:14   got better and then she got a little [TS]

00:50:16   more self-indulgent but I i enjoyed them [TS]

00:50:19   through like them all [TS]

00:50:20   yeah we've had a podcast we have had [TS]

00:50:23   that one thanks if you can look back in [TS]

00:50:25   the archive for that one the the other [TS]

00:50:26   heresy that I have perhaps is speaking [TS]

00:50:30   of not knowing when to let go [TS]

00:50:32   douglas adams yeah I got halfway through [TS]

00:50:36   life the universe and everything is like [TS]

00:50:38   you know I this the first one was fun [TS]

00:50:42   the radio show was fun the BBC show was [TS]

00:50:45   fun i'm good i don't need anymore and I [TS]

00:50:48   kept trying to read the others you know [TS]

00:50:49   I'd be like alright i'll try this one [TS]

00:50:51   and even even the UN colfer one that [TS]

00:50:54   they just [TS]

00:50:55   a man was like like the first 3i like [TS]

00:50:57   the classic trilogy I thought the fourth [TS]

00:50:59   one was a disappointment until the until [TS]

00:51:02   the very last I think next to last [TS]

00:51:03   chapter was actually interesting and [TS]

00:51:07   then you know i would i would actually [TS]

00:51:08   argue i think the douglas adams after [TS]

00:51:10   whatever 1984 1986 or something didn't [TS]

00:51:14   do anything because I know there are [TS]

00:51:15   people who defend those Dirk Gently [TS]

00:51:16   books I thought they were terrible and I [TS]

00:51:18   pleasant worse they're worse than [TS]

00:51:20   terrible they were actually just him [TS]

00:51:22   rifling through his old doctor who [TS]

00:51:23   scripts for ideas and then putting them [TS]

00:51:25   into novel form so anybody who had seen [TS]

00:51:28   or read about chadha or or city of death [TS]

00:51:31   or any of those old doctor whose stories [TS]

00:51:32   he was just lifting those stories that [TS]

00:51:35   he wrote and using them to see seem to [TS]

00:51:37   have no new ideas so as as tragic as it [TS]

00:51:40   was that he died so young [TS]

00:51:42   honestly I I at that point I he had it [TS]

00:51:47   had been a while since he'd written [TS]

00:51:48   something that I thought was really [TS]

00:51:49   great hehe he did a lot of other things [TS]

00:51:52   that interested him and he wrote the [TS]

00:51:53   story about it [TS]

00:51:54   his book about endangered animals and [TS]

00:51:57   things like that which I think had much [TS]

00:51:58   more of his interest and then [TS]

00:52:00   hitchhikers was just sort of and even [TS]

00:52:02   Dirk Gently was sort of you know [TS]

00:52:03   paycheck fodder for him [TS]

00:52:05   yeah but I've gotta gotta got a few when [TS]

00:52:07   we were talking about childhood authors [TS]

00:52:09   especially i read a lot of Piers Anthony [TS]

00:52:11   yeah oh yeah autobiography of space [TS]

00:52:16   tyrant the split infinity blue a jet a [TS]

00:52:19   depth juxtaposition trilogy is actually [TS]

00:52:21   pretty good in that is this bizarre [TS]

00:52:23   sci-fi fantasy thing and if you're a [TS]

00:52:24   teenager in love sci-fi and fantasy it [TS]

00:52:27   kind of sticks all together and there's [TS]

00:52:28   a game metaphor like ender's game kinda [TS]

00:52:30   it or hunger games it's it's sort of [TS]

00:52:33   reminiscent of that but it's so that as [TS]

00:52:37   a standalone work you know that's fine [TS]

00:52:39   but here's the thing so he did the sand [TS]

00:52:42   books which are still being published [TS]

00:52:44   I know and if you go back spell for [TS]

00:52:46   chameleon why would I read a bunch of [TS]

00:52:47   these my wife read a bunch of these [TS]

00:52:48   first off you go back what you discover [TS]

00:52:50   is that keynote a he said hes a dirty [TS]

00:52:55   old man even when he was younger own [TS]

00:52:57   minds around and spell for chameleon [TS]

00:52:59   it's got a lot of questionable things in [TS]

00:53:01   it and the sandbox do in general buttons [TS]

00:53:03   that he had that they started the [TS]

00:53:05   ability to consent during sex oh my god [TS]

00:53:07   biol the same space [TS]

00:53:09   tyrant series which was also marketed I [TS]

00:53:11   think you know because he was an [TS]

00:53:12   adolescent themed writer in so many ways [TS]

00:53:15   he that book is so dirty in so it in so [TS]

00:53:21   many wrong awful all these little wit [TS]

00:53:23   not even like the kind of thing where [TS]

00:53:25   you pass it around the back of the [TS]

00:53:26   classroom with your friends and i would [TS]

00:53:28   check out page whatever like we did with [TS]

00:53:29   you know i'm forever it was the kind of [TS]

00:53:31   thing where as you're reading about rape [TS]

00:53:33   and incest and so on so forth [TS]

00:53:35   you're like yeah yeah butBut Sam [TS]

00:53:40   clinical section sexual details [TS]

00:53:42   involving people of inappropriate ages [TS]

00:53:44   yeah it's just there's there's a lot of [TS]

00:53:47   it'sit's really horrifying and I don't [TS]

00:53:49   know if this was supposed to be the big [TS]

00:53:50   statement oh you know terrible things [TS]

00:53:52   happen when violence in reality [TS]

00:53:54   depredation but I never got the sense [TS]

00:53:57   well it was a deal with his statement [TS]

00:53:59   he's awful [TS]

00:54:00   um it was it was the kind of thing where [TS]

00:54:02   even what because i read that series [TS]

00:54:04   like middle school and I can remember oh [TS]

00:54:06   yeah feeling violated by it was kind of [TS]

00:54:08   confused by what i had read and trying [TS]

00:54:11   to figure out like how much of it was my [TS]

00:54:12   own instincts say now now this is wrong [TS]

00:54:14   and and how much of it was me being in [TS]

00:54:17   over my head if you know it's i'm a big [TS]

00:54:19   believer that you should supervise too [TS]

00:54:21   much of kids read because this is how [TS]

00:54:23   they form them that their sense of self [TS]

00:54:25   and their way of interacting with the [TS]

00:54:26   world but man oh man that that was [TS]

00:54:29   something where it was a big fat on the [TS]

00:54:32   positive side at a relatively young age [TS]

00:54:35   Lisa we learned about various sexual [TS]

00:54:37   positions that can be done in zero-g so [TS]

00:54:41   that I could never happen at this base [TS]

00:54:43   pairs Anthony and I also bring up your [TS]

00:54:46   sanity because in terms of series that [TS]

00:54:47   disappointed you on a pale horse is [TS]

00:54:50   actually a really good book about death [TS]

00:54:52   and then he proceeded to write that same [TS]

00:54:54   book like seven more times like I'm not [TS]

00:54:57   kidding [TS]

00:54:57   the same book he would change the [TS]

00:55:00   characters and it was almost Russian [TS]

00:55:02   like I guess in a sense it was like the [TS]

00:55:03   same events from another perspective but [TS]

00:55:05   it was no it was just the same [TS]

00:55:08   hey that book was successful I'll write [TS]

00:55:10   it again seven times and and and so he [TS]

00:55:13   just heat he's on my list because it's [TS]

00:55:15   like I appreciated when I was younger [TS]

00:55:17   that's part of it but he also squeeze as [TS]

00:55:19   much out of a serious as he could [TS]

00:55:21   and continues to do so with sand and in [TS]

00:55:25   hindsight it wasn't that great but you [TS]

00:55:28   know all the inappropriate stuff that's [TS]

00:55:30   in there and and it's only I think [TS]

00:55:32   gotten worse and yeah so he's on my list [TS]

00:55:34   i want to mention to others [TS]

00:55:37   Great Bear I who love music be blood [TS]

00:55:42   music a great novella turned into a ok [TS]

00:55:46   novel he wrote a couple books Darwin's [TS]

00:55:51   radio and Darwin's children i think is [TS]

00:55:55   the second one and i have not had much [TS]

00:55:58   more visceral reaction to a book as to [TS]

00:56:00   direct the sequel to Darwin's radar was [TS]

00:56:02   radio wasn't great [TS]

00:56:03   Darwin's children I I like if if it had [TS]

00:56:08   been a paper book I would have thrown it [TS]

00:56:10   across the room but it was on my kindle [TS]

00:56:12   value my kindle so I didn't but I think [TS]

00:56:15   with prejudice delivered price West well [TS]

00:56:17   III guess what I'd say is it you know [TS]

00:56:20   people and people can enjoy what they [TS]

00:56:21   like but for a hard sci-fi writer to [TS]

00:56:24   suddenly turn on a dime and start [TS]

00:56:26   talking about like preaching about [TS]

00:56:29   indefinable higher power messages from [TS]

00:56:33   God in these characters heads [TS]

00:56:35   it was like oh yeah okay goodbye not why [TS]

00:56:38   I know not why I read your book what [TS]

00:56:41   what okay you know it's like whoa ok [TS]

00:56:43   whatever path you're on now good for you [TS]

00:56:46   not what I signed up for when i read [TS]

00:56:48   your books so I felt that there's some [TS]

00:56:50   author betrayal there and I I he's not [TS]

00:56:52   he's on my list i'm not going to read [TS]

00:56:54   anything by him and i want to mention [TS]

00:56:55   Robert Sawyer who is at eight a somewhat [TS]

00:56:59   critically praised but i think actually [TS]

00:57:01   kind of a mediocre writer he's okay as [TS]

00:57:05   his ideas are interesting but he did [TS]

00:57:06   flash forward and I'll i read a [TS]

00:57:10   Neanderthal parallax is what I want to [TS]

00:57:11   talk about hominids is a book that got [TS]

00:57:13   some discussion and it's interesting [TS]

00:57:15   it's about a parallel universe where [TS]

00:57:17   Neanderthals are one the sort of [TS]

00:57:20   revolutionary battle and bridges created [TS]

00:57:22   between the humans and the and the [TS]

00:57:24   Neanderthal world and and it's sort of [TS]

00:57:26   interesting and yet those books that i [TS]

00:57:30   read the sequel [TS]

00:57:31   mmm [TS]

00:57:32   No so I just a little warning there [TS]

00:57:34   don't don't read more no more Robert [TS]

00:57:36   Sawyer that Neanderthal parallax books [TS]

00:57:39   because i thought they were really awful [TS]

00:57:40   and the first one was passable so I [TS]

00:57:43   think the turning the fellas in two [TS]

00:57:44   novels can be problematic period your [TS]

00:57:46   blood music is a great example of that [TS]

00:57:48   with a fantastic moment Seacrest is [TS]

00:57:50   bakers in Spain is another because it [TS]

00:57:53   was a great it was a great novella which [TS]

00:57:56   is basically about what happens when you [TS]

00:57:58   engineer people who don't need to sleep [TS]

00:58:00   and and how are they treated by the rest [TS]

00:58:03   of society and how did they react and [TS]

00:58:05   respond return because that they that [TS]

00:58:07   they're essentially immortal because the [TS]

00:58:09   the that by the body chemistry tix that [TS]

00:58:12   make them not need sleep also happen to [TS]

00:58:14   refresh rejuvenate ourselves and so [TS]

00:58:16   they're never going to age and they get [TS]

00:58:18   resentful of society and so on and so [TS]

00:58:19   forth and it was a great novella and she [TS]

00:58:22   turned it to novel which I thought was [TS]

00:58:23   kind of Dragon places and then she [TS]

00:58:25   turned it into a trilogy and i should [TS]

00:58:28   say this i really enjoyed an Seacrest as [TS]

00:58:30   a sci-fi writer and I think she's one of [TS]

00:58:32   the few that actually I'm tackles issues [TS]

00:58:34   of of class and intellectual and social [TS]

00:58:37   mobility as opposed to automatically [TS]

00:58:41   hand-waving with and after the war there [TS]

00:58:42   is prosperity and now we all have [TS]

00:58:44   opportunity because its star trek um she [TS]

00:58:46   doesn't do that she talks about you know [TS]

00:58:48   the disruption that science or [TS]

00:58:49   technology can bring about and how some [TS]

00:58:52   people get left behind some people don't [TS]

00:58:53   and she doesn't really engaging in funny [TS]

00:58:56   way I love her authorial voice but I [TS]

00:58:58   really wish like she had just stopped me [TS]

00:59:00   like okay I had a novella called Biggers [TS]

00:59:03   in Spain it was pretty awesome got the [TS]

00:59:05   radar [TS]

00:59:06   I'm going to move on to something else [TS]

00:59:07   oh because I made the mistake of reading [TS]

00:59:11   the the back the last two because i have [TS]

00:59:14   this this perverse completest instinct [TS]

00:59:16   or if there's a series i always try to [TS]

00:59:18   read all the way through to see how it's [TS]

00:59:19   going to work and by the third 1i mall [TS]

00:59:21   oh no oh no oh no and and i ended up [TS]

00:59:25   kind of you doing that the really [TS]

00:59:26   equivalent of putting like the hands [TS]

00:59:28   over the eyes are watching a horror film [TS]

00:59:29   just kind of skimming through and and [TS]

00:59:31   you I don't like the characters keeping [TS]

00:59:32   this paragraph at rickhouse I i think a [TS]

00:59:35   lot of artists who have one big success [TS]

00:59:38   as always you know a the questions [TS]

00:59:41   always can repeat it but one of those [TS]

00:59:42   questions is are they going to try to [TS]

00:59:44   repeat [TS]

00:59:45   what got the mirror they are they going [TS]

00:59:47   to do something new and say what you [TS]

00:59:48   like that wanted to try this and and you [TS]

00:59:51   know the history is littered with the [TS]

00:59:52   you know make mediocre follow ups and [TS]

00:59:55   some of those are our because they [TS]

00:59:58   didn't do what they did [TS]

00:59:58   didn't do what they did [TS]

01:00:00   for and some of those are because they [TS]

01:00:01   tried to do exactly what they did before [TS]

01:00:03   and they didn't show it and you see what [TS]

01:00:04   writers was like I'm just gonna make [TS]

01:00:06   this into a series and so I i get y [TS]

01:00:08   series exist because it's you know once [TS]

01:00:12   you get somebody you build that audience [TS]

01:00:14   and you keep them on the hook but on [TS]

01:00:16   another level you know it ends up [TS]

01:00:19   sometimes just turning into a cash grab [TS]

01:00:22   it's like you know III what do I do with [TS]

01:00:24   this great audience who liked this book [TS]

01:00:25   well i guess i'll just write another [TS]

01:00:27   book and don't give me more money right [TS]

01:00:29   so do you have a story to tell know but [TS]

01:00:31   yeah i remember back in the eighties [TS]

01:00:33   when white gold wielder by steven r [TS]

01:00:36   Donaldson came out how I there's a [TS]

01:00:38   there's a there's a series that gave up [TS]

01:00:41   on all of us haha it was what the third [TS]

01:00:45   book of the second trilogy and as with [TS]

01:00:47   Thomas covenant or whatever it was and [TS]

01:00:49   so so my dad got it and i was curious [TS]

01:00:51   because he had the other five and you [TS]

01:00:54   know so so I start picking up the first [TS]

01:00:56   one and he sees me reading it one [TS]

01:00:59   afternoon and he just comes or goes [TS]

01:01:01   don't do it what do you mean you for [TS]

01:01:04   reading the sixth longest yes i have to [TS]

01:01:06   know but don't do it [TS]

01:01:08   life is too short i think it is right [TS]

01:01:12   that's just I mean that book i read the [TS]

01:01:14   first book in that series and needless [TS]

01:01:17   to say just because of stuff that [TS]

01:01:19   happened in that first book I never went [TS]

01:01:22   on from there because I was like this is [TS]

01:01:24   just awful like it's just it's just it's [TS]

01:01:27   painful painful to read now cuz now to [TS]

01:01:30   be honest i'm thinking of the authors [TS]

01:01:32   who haven't done it yet i'm all please [TS]

01:01:33   don't do it yeah there are those so [TS]

01:01:36   that's that's that's the good thing is [TS]

01:01:38   that is is you've got the writers out [TS]

01:01:39   there that you can count this is true if [TS]

01:01:41   anything I was thinking you know I I [TS]

01:01:43   have the same feeling about like musical [TS]

01:01:45   artists where they have a new album [TS]

01:01:47   comes out there's always that moment [TS]

01:01:48   like what you know i'll i'll buy the [TS]

01:01:51   next one I'll buy this album if I like [TS]

01:01:53   the last one but if the last 1i didn't [TS]

01:01:55   like then there's that moment like i'm [TS]

01:01:57   going to give you another chance or am I [TS]

01:01:58   going to just get off the train now and [TS]

01:02:00   that and that happens you know that [TS]

01:02:02   happens all the time to or a TV series [TS]

01:02:04   we're like that that's the last episode [TS]

01:02:05   of that I'm gonna watch or you know I [TS]

01:02:08   don't like this writer anymore i'm not [TS]

01:02:09   going to follow his his stuff anymore [TS]

01:02:11   it's it's it's natural [TS]

01:02:13   one of the ways that you selected but [TS]

01:02:14   it's funny when that starts with love [TS]

01:02:17   and then and manage it sort of that [TS]

01:02:19   relationship falls apart [TS]

01:02:21   can we recommend authors who have not [TS]

01:02:23   done this who have been impressed with [TS]

01:02:25   how they did their series or close them [TS]

01:02:26   out in this in the spirit of the [TS]

01:02:28   flophouse which always has a thing at [TS]

01:02:30   the end to prove that they're not just [TS]

01:02:31   sad bastard 28 everything [TS]

01:02:33   let's do that writers who have not [TS]

01:02:36   wronged us and series that have [TS]

01:02:39   delivered sure Lisa go ahead [TS]

01:02:41   ok I i have 21 this may be controversial [TS]

01:02:45   maybe not William Gibson because he [TS]

01:02:48   tends to switch gears every few books [TS]

01:02:50   and move off in two different directions [TS]

01:02:51   and i like that you like that his own [TS]

01:02:54   curiosity keep some really fresh and [TS]

01:02:56   lively and if you think that he wrote [TS]

01:02:58   neuromancer and then he went away please [TS]

01:03:00   read pattern recognition because it's [TS]

01:03:01   great [TS]

01:03:02   oh my gosh there's there's a lot i love [TS]

01:03:06   the whole trilogy that actually I like [TS]

01:03:08   the bridge trilogy that centered around [TS]

01:03:10   the bridge but the other offer i'm going [TS]

01:03:13   to bring up as one that doesn't get [TS]

01:03:14   talked about a lot but should and it's [TS]

01:03:16   julian may who obvious she did two [TS]

01:03:20   series that i think are worth talking [TS]

01:03:22   about the first is the saga of police in [TS]

01:03:24   exile which hinges on the premise that [TS]

01:03:27   people who hate modern who hate [TS]

01:03:29   modernity hop into a time wormhole ended [TS]

01:03:33   up back on planet earth during a [TS]

01:03:35   pleasing times where in theory they can [TS]

01:03:37   get back to the land [TS]

01:03:38   what they don't realize is they're going [TS]

01:03:40   back there and being enslaved by race of [TS]

01:03:41   telepathic aliens and the five books in [TS]

01:03:46   the series of is a 45 [TS]

01:03:48   I can't remember um think it's boats for [TS]

01:03:52   the four books in the series a center on [TS]

01:03:55   how does humanity get out of this pickle [TS]

01:03:57   and and they do and she and boom she is [TS]

01:03:59   it but then a little bit later she [TS]

01:04:03   launched a second series called the [TS]

01:04:04   Galactic milieu series which has some [TS]

01:04:06   five books and it's very loosely tied to [TS]

01:04:10   the police in exile is and it's flung [TS]

01:04:11   like 3,000 4,000 years in the future and [TS]

01:04:14   it's this big fork in space opera and [TS]

01:04:16   she could have spotted out for 20 books [TS]

01:04:18   because there's like four different [TS]

01:04:19   family dynasties to get into it like [TS]

01:04:21   eight different alien races and all [TS]

01:04:22   these all these wars and skirmishes to [TS]

01:04:24   go on but you know it was in and out [TS]

01:04:26   nobody [TS]

01:04:27   certain five books and I admired her [TS]

01:04:29   restraint for taking something is [TS]

01:04:31   spreading and epic as the story that she [TS]

01:04:33   told and picking three characters and [TS]

01:04:36   saying boom I'm done [TS]

01:04:37   these are 3 i'm focusing on i have [TS]

01:04:39   figured out what happens to them you can [TS]

01:04:41   wonder about everybody else on your own [TS]

01:04:42   time so I would urge people to read [TS]

01:04:44   Julian may we don't hear a lot about her [TS]

01:04:47   but she she cranked out a lot of really [TS]

01:04:49   good work in the seventies and eighties [TS]

01:04:51   and then I think people should read him [TS]

01:04:52   the other I I could I could name a bunch [TS]

01:04:58   i just wrote I wrote a bunch down we [TS]

01:04:59   should say the I think dan would agree [TS]

01:05:02   with me here the four cosine series by [TS]

01:05:04   it took when I was one of the ones I [TS]

01:05:05   yeah I agree it's you know it's one of [TS]

01:05:08   those things where you look at your like [TS]

01:05:09   wow she wrote you know she's written [TS]

01:05:11   over a dozen books and 15 books in the [TS]

01:05:13   series they're all pretty good i mean [TS]

01:05:15   there are some that are not as good as [TS]

01:05:16   others but like you're probably going to [TS]

01:05:18   read them all once you start reading [TS]

01:05:20   them and the most recent one by lois [TS]

01:05:22   mcmaster bujold in the most recent one [TS]

01:05:24   is actually one of its good it's like [TS]

01:05:27   what yeah it's really good through a [TS]

01:05:29   chart of quality it would not like have [TS]

01:05:31   the fall off there were some tears even [TS]

01:05:33   of Athos was early on that this kind of [TS]

01:05:35   crappy but she goes into things that I [TS]

01:05:38   don't care about as much like she finds [TS]

01:05:40   fascinating stories in things that I [TS]

01:05:41   don't find it fascinating but eventually [TS]

01:05:44   you know everything will pop up with [TS]

01:05:46   like a memory or something like that and [TS]

01:05:47   it's like this is amazing yeah yeah [TS]

01:05:50   that's a good series III was not let [TS]

01:05:52   down by that which is why i read 15 [TS]

01:05:54   freakin books in like two months and all [TS]

01:05:57   just about all series that was that's a [TS]

01:05:59   series of haven't let me down [TS]

01:06:02   of course mirror grants newsflash [TS]

01:06:04   trilogy [TS]

01:06:05   well you know it's just keep going yeah [TS]

01:06:10   the i said i'd say neal stephenson [TS]

01:06:13   although his work is not to be serious [TS]

01:06:16   but it is a serious but but I i am i can [TS]

01:06:19   add the baroque cycle drag for me I i [TS]

01:06:21   continue to enjoy his work i stopped [TS]

01:06:24   reading the Baroque so i kinda like a [TS]

01:06:25   blog cycle the baroque cycle that's you [TS]

01:06:28   know that's through if that's a three [TS]

01:06:29   thousand page novel essentially that's a [TS]

01:06:31   lotta well there's an investment there [TS]

01:06:33   but like I found that it really took me [TS]

01:06:35   like a halfway through the first book to [TS]

01:06:37   be like alright I'm into this which I [TS]

01:06:39   realize a lot too [TS]

01:06:40   that engine like it's like 500 pages but [TS]

01:06:42   like borough Hey Ya Ya paper oak I [TS]

01:06:46   that's not reading i want to mention [TS]

01:06:48   John Barnes has a series that's the i [TS]

01:06:52   started with a what a million open doors [TS]

01:06:56   I've plugged in before do yes yes yes [TS]

01:06:59   you gave me the first few books in the [TS]

01:07:01   right areas right that's the third one [TS]

01:07:02   is very depressing [TS]

01:07:03   yeah the third one is really depressing [TS]

01:07:05   and then and then the the fourth one is [TS]

01:07:07   actually pretty good and has a kind of [TS]

01:07:10   breathtaking also depressing chapter in [TS]

01:07:14   it that's the single chapter that I [TS]

01:07:15   still think about that blows me away but [TS]

01:07:17   that so those those are that's an [TS]

01:07:18   interesting series that has been you [TS]

01:07:21   know slow to come out and he could stop [TS]

01:07:24   at any time it's not like he leaves you [TS]

01:07:25   hanging but then he goes back into that [TS]

01:07:27   universe i like that and John Barnes [TS]

01:07:30   also wrote an awful book called the Duke [TS]

01:07:32   of uranium don't read the Harry that no [TS]

01:07:34   no no I jack mcdevitt who have have [TS]

01:07:38   extolled the virtues of before it right [TS]

01:07:39   slight fun sci-fi adventure novels into [TS]

01:07:42   different series the Alex Benedict [TS]

01:07:44   series which is about a sort of like [TS]

01:07:45   Indiana Jones and space and the [TS]

01:07:48   Priscilla Hutchins much series where [TS]

01:07:50   she's a space pilot and there's always [TS]

01:07:53   an adventure and people eat sandwiches [TS]

01:07:54   I'm not kidding people always eat [TS]

01:07:56   sandwiches in those places and there's [TS]

01:07:58   and there's always everything looks fine [TS]

01:07:59   and then somebody's got a gun and [TS]

01:08:01   there's a surprise there's some sabotage [TS]

01:08:02   and it's adventure ii but you know [TS]

01:08:04   they're all kind of there they all are [TS]

01:08:07   enjoyable and I feel like they've never [TS]

01:08:09   you know they never kind of tailed often [TS]

01:08:12   in quality they're all just sort of [TS]

01:08:13   pleasant and I always pick them up when [TS]

01:08:15   he's got a new one and then i want to [TS]

01:08:17   mention John Scalzi who has gone back to [TS]

01:08:19   the old man's war universe time and [TS]

01:08:21   again now he's sort of what five books [TS]

01:08:23   in that series now but I think they're [TS]

01:08:25   all they're all good and so you know [TS]

01:08:27   i-i-i I credit him for that because that [TS]

01:08:30   was a case where old man's war was a hit [TS]

01:08:31   and he's like all right I gotta do more [TS]

01:08:33   of this and I think he did a pretty [TS]

01:08:35   credible job with those books and [TS]

01:08:37   they're all different in a way which is [TS]

01:08:39   also kind of fun so yeah that's my list [TS]

01:08:41   all throughout to why a series which I [TS]

01:08:44   liked the ending the kind of classics [TS]

01:08:48   but Susan Cooper's dark is rising [TS]

01:08:50   sequence which I enjoyed all of [TS]

01:08:54   I we talked about that reason reading [TS]

01:08:56   the darkness rising right now I think I [TS]

01:08:59   quite like that's that's my favorite of [TS]

01:09:01   the series but i think the whole series [TS]

01:09:02   is pretty good airplane look [TS]

01:09:03   similarly mythologically Lloyd [TS]

01:09:05   Alexander's per day in chronicles which [TS]

01:09:07   i also have very fond about that for [TS]

01:09:10   Lisa mentioned terry pratchett who is [TS]

01:09:13   amazing and just one of those things [TS]

01:09:15   where he is [TS]

01:09:16   despite having a series in that always [TS]

01:09:18   your many and many of his books are [TS]

01:09:20   contained in the discworld they go often [TS]

01:09:23   totally random directions and he kind of [TS]

01:09:26   manages you know i think when i started [TS]

01:09:28   reading him it was because I like [TS]

01:09:29   Douglas Adams but i think he is even [TS]

01:09:32   better at that than Douglas Adams is in [TS]

01:09:34   terms of actually argue that describes [TS]

01:09:36   kind of five series in one consensual [TS]

01:09:39   universe because there's the Wizards [TS]

01:09:40   there's the witches there's the watch [TS]

01:09:42   there's their standalone Brooks there's [TS]

01:09:45   all the standalone books to I mean that [TS]

01:09:46   need pictures and I mean all your beer [TS]

01:09:49   oh my god i love pyramid well just [TS]

01:09:50   totally I mean he'll just think of this [TS]

01:09:51   like clever idea and it amazingly he's [TS]

01:09:54   been writing these books for you know 30 [TS]

01:09:55   years and they're still hilarious [TS]

01:09:58   like I mean I right pick up new ones and [TS]

01:09:59   I'm like still laughing out loud with [TS]

01:10:01   them which is amazing to me after that [TS]

01:10:03   many years so kudos to him he's a great [TS]

01:10:06   writer and then the other one which i [TS]

01:10:07   think i've mentioned on the show before [TS]

01:10:09   is a mic carries Felix caster series [TS]

01:10:12   which is a five book paranormal sort of [TS]

01:10:15   noir set in London which I really love [TS]

01:10:18   and I think those are all those are all [TS]

01:10:19   great you know I'll second the Julian [TS]

01:10:21   may and the terry pratchett because yes [TS]

01:10:24   dear god yes but i also love the john [TS]

01:10:29   john d mcdonalds travis mcgee series [TS]

01:10:31   which is interesting because he started [TS]

01:10:34   out as a kind of a pulp crime writer and [TS]

01:10:38   the first couple books are you know he [TS]

01:10:39   banged the first for out in one year you [TS]

01:10:42   know they're very short very fast [TS]

01:10:44   and then the series of wolves and [TS]

01:10:47   they're just they're all really you know [TS]

01:10:50   good stories but just beautiful writing [TS]

01:10:53   all first person and he really like Carl [TS]

01:10:57   highest and you look at his books and [TS]

01:10:59   going to talk about crime in florida and [TS]

01:11:02   environmental issues and all and and [TS]

01:11:04   he'd say point-blank it's because of [TS]

01:11:06   John McDonald so those are beautiful but [TS]

01:11:10   I also really enjoy a Donald westlake [TS]

01:11:14   and his both both as Donald West like [TS]

01:11:18   doing the dortmunder novels part also [TS]

01:11:20   Richard Stark is doing the Parker novels [TS]

01:11:23   because dortmunder actually started when [TS]

01:11:26   a Parker novel didn't work and he [TS]

01:11:28   realized it was just too funny and [TS]

01:11:30   somebody just went to change the names [TS]

01:11:32   and that was it [TS]

01:11:34   and so then he had like this really dark [TS]

01:11:36   greedy caper character and then this [TS]

01:11:40   bumbling group of thieves and both [TS]

01:11:44   series just again beautiful writing in [TS]

01:11:47   them and number i mean just no drop off [TS]

01:11:50   to the end so Scott you have anything [TS]

01:11:54   nice to say very very rarely do I have [TS]

01:11:57   anything nice to say ah i will mention [TS]

01:11:59   someone who we spoken about on the [TS]

01:12:02   podcast before NK jettisons the [TS]

01:12:04   inheritance trilogy [TS]

01:12:06   oh yeah I I thought that was a fantastic [TS]

01:12:08   and I've read The Killing Moon which is [TS]

01:12:10   start another series but i haven't read [TS]

01:12:12   the second one so i don't know it could [TS]

01:12:13   be disappointing could be setting myself [TS]

01:12:15   up for disappointment and I'll once [TS]

01:12:20   again plug a KJ parker who i plug all [TS]

01:12:23   the time with the the engineer trilogy [TS]

01:12:26   which i think is an amazing piece of [TS]

01:12:28   writing that I think probably most [TS]

01:12:30   people won't like but it is it is very [TS]

01:12:33   good and I enjoyed it very much and you [TS]

01:12:35   can hear Scott talk more about AMI KJ [TS]

01:12:37   parker cast which is his know that's [TS]

01:12:40   right [TS]

01:12:40   check me out yes it's a very quiet [TS]

01:12:43   podcast it is just got its me reading [TS]

01:12:46   the books i just turned every step you [TS]

01:12:48   hear the pay like here clicking the [TS]

01:12:50   kindle but I read those i actually [TS]

01:12:52   bought the paint propria well decadent [TS]

01:12:55   like a savage [TS]

01:12:57   Wow [TS]

01:12:58   like a k-12 nothing like a post [TS]

01:13:02   Gutenberg's after and I would I read [TS]

01:13:04   them by the light of many candles lined [TS]

01:13:07   up [TS]

01:13:07   ok good use gadgets for ways that [TS]

01:13:10   excellent [TS]

01:13:11   alright well this has been great we [TS]

01:13:13   talked a little bit about artists and [TS]

01:13:15   art we talked a little bit about authors [TS]

01:13:17   and books series that wronged us in some [TS]

01:13:20   way and then we wrapped it up with a [TS]

01:13:22   little positivity thanks to Lisa for [TS]

01:13:24   suggesting we end on a positive note I [TS]

01:13:25   appreciate that and so now we've come to [TS]

01:13:28   the end so i would like to thank my [TS]

01:13:31   guests for for joining me in this [TS]

01:13:33   slightly odd ball episode of our book [TS]

01:13:35   club but I i really enjoyed it [TS]

01:13:36   dan morgan thank you very much for being [TS]

01:13:38   here always a pleasure thanks for having [TS]

01:13:40   me [TS]

01:13:41   always a pleasure you say now you're not [TS]

01:13:43   cursing my name like the last time I [TS]

01:13:45   mean internally [TS]

01:13:46   okay good that's right it's on the [TS]

01:13:47   inside David Laura thank you so much for [TS]

01:13:49   being back on the show [TS]

01:13:50   always a pleasure he said cursing [TS]

01:13:53   internally [TS]

01:13:53   well hey its second haha [TS]

01:13:57   Lisa Schmeisser thank you again for [TS]

01:13:59   coming on again it was a lot of fun [TS]

01:14:01   thank you [TS]

01:14:02   yeah that was great boy you've got a lot [TS]

01:14:03   of books in your in your memory bank was [TS]

01:14:06   amazed I was blown away [TS]

01:14:09   that's not because he doesn't remember [TS]

01:14:10   anything is really what i'm saying here [TS]

01:14:12   Scott was gone thanks for being here [TS]

01:14:14   I don't know what you said but I do you [TS]

01:14:16   all think about what my mother always [TS]

01:14:17   told me when I was growing up [TS]

01:14:19   Scott I'm not mad at you i'm just [TS]

01:14:21   disappointed [TS]

01:14:23   well again get used to disappointment [TS]

01:14:27   that's right let's play anyway this is [TS]

01:14:31   not the princess bride podcast either so [TS]

01:14:34   thanks to everybody out there for [TS]

01:14:35   listening we hope we haven't been a [TS]

01:14:37   disappointment to you in this episode [TS]

01:14:38   and if we were there's always the next [TS]

01:14:41   episode says come on back and try us [TS]

01:14:44   again don't give up on us if we've [TS]

01:14:45   disappointed you just keep listening we [TS]

01:14:48   can we'll turn it around it's gonna [TS]

01:14:50   happen [TS]

01:14:51   some things are looking up we're not [TS]

01:14:52   going to hold on past our explorations [TS]

01:14:54   definition we have been years after the [TS]

01:14:56   episode before we are solid ohmygod [TS]

01:15:00   ohmygod he and on that note I say to you [TS]

01:15:06   goodnight goodnight your listener good [TS]

01:15:14   just a reminder next episode we're going [TS]

01:15:19   to watch three classic movies from 1952 [TS]

01:15:22   well their movies from 1952 high noon [TS]

01:15:25   start Gary Cooper the greatest show on [TS]

01:15:28   earth starring charlton heston Jimmy [TS]

01:15:30   Stewart cast of thousands directed by [TS]

01:15:32   subtle beauty mill it's all it's a movie [TS]

01:15:35   and singing in the rain with Gene Kelly [TS]

01:15:37   so watch those movies or at least watch [TS]

01:15:41   high noon and singing in the ring and [TS]

01:15:43   join us for our next episode we'll talk [TS]

01:15:45   about old movies with Philip Michaels [TS]

01:15:47   thanks for listening [TS]