0:00:03the incomparable number 165 october2013
0:00:11welcome back to be uncomfortable i'm
0:00:15your host Jason still and in this
0:00:16episode we're going to be talking about
0:00:17video games i have assigned the member
0:00:21is my esteemed panel panelists two games
0:00:24to play
0:00:25it's a tough job that's podcasting
0:00:27business playing games were assigned to
0:00:29you and we're going to talk about the
0:00:32two games and who knows where it will
0:00:33lead I don't play video games i don't
0:00:34know what i'm talking about here but
0:00:36these guys do and first up that laughter
0:00:39you heard there that Steve let's see
0:00:41let's have been known to play a video
0:00:42game or two in his time hi Steve
0:00:44I do play from time to time yes Jason
0:00:47and good evening to you
0:00:48good evening Dan Morgan is also here
0:00:51known to play video games in his sleep
0:00:53even he loves them so much that's a lie
0:00:56i know it's probably true
0:00:58yeah hi hi hi jason and i forget i
0:01:03forgot my niceties I'm too busy playing
0:01:05a videogame to talk to you
0:01:07that's a lie is your new hello very nice
0:01:08video gamers not well known for their
0:01:10social skills section I will murder us
0:01:14Tony sindelar is also here he has
0:01:15excellent social skills and there's a
0:01:17very polite fellow Tony hi jason i play
0:01:20too many video games but i'm here to
0:01:22talk about them and sell the truth but
0:01:23we can always make this an intervention
0:01:25it maybe I and we're all here gathered
0:01:28to intervene in the life of our the man
0:01:30whose life has been crippled by his
0:01:32video game addiction John siracusa hi
0:01:34John
0:01:35actually I'm in the dam or enroll in
0:01:37that I just finished the last game last
0:01:39night who did not attend tomorrow like
0:01:42we doing it is doing and fishing right
0:01:44now I will confess i finished one of
0:01:46them today I think I saw one of them
0:01:48today too man i don't like thursday guys
0:01:51right with hell you been at
0:01:52I was on the west coast life is
0:01:53different there whatever you know
0:01:55well these we all finished it unlike
0:01:57some other pot episodes of the in
0:01:58cumberland which participants didn't
0:02:00routers finish the entire it's a review
0:02:03of the first eighty percent just wrong
0:02:06I mean that's actually how a lot of game
0:02:07reviewers doing the play-by-play 10
0:02:09hours
0:02:09here's what my thoughts are mhm yes some
0:02:12kind of chat room that we're not
0:02:13streaming to said he played the first 20
0:02:15minutes and that's what that's enough
0:02:16for him tons yeah I don't know this game
0:02:17to get that game took some radical turn
0:02:19to our game and you can finish it come
0:02:21up i don't want people that I only like
0:02:24the first date
0:02:25the star wars and those are the best
0:02:26minutes i'm not looking at a Star
0:02:29Destroyer what's the point yeah all
0:02:31downhill after that really alright so to
0:02:34talk about two games brothers a tale of
0:02:37two sons which these are both games that
0:02:40came out this year brothers a tale of
0:02:42two sons and gone home for these two
0:02:45games and I played what I played gone
0:02:52home a little while ago and then I
0:02:53finished brothers today and we should
0:02:56talk about the both i don't i'm not sure
0:02:58if there's a link between the mother
0:02:59than these are both sort of like
0:03:00critical darlings I think in some ways
0:03:02i've heard people talk about them on
0:03:04release and praise them highly and when
0:03:07I said that I had finished playing gone
0:03:08home everybody immediately said you
0:03:10should play brothers and I do what I'm
0:03:12told on the internet so I i played
0:03:14brothers too
0:03:15well they're both short games which is
0:03:17interesting like this is a yes kind of a
0:03:19new genre that I kind of dig which is
0:03:20like games that you can play in one or
0:03:22two sittings games are always do like
0:03:24GTA or something you know grant thought
0:03:26or something let's say huge and
0:03:27sprawling an epic that's like you know
0:03:29when they measure it like this game will
0:03:30take you 30 hours to complete and kind
0:03:33of kind of dig ya on the other hand i
0:03:35would argue that these are almost both
0:03:37not games in the there's not a whole lot
0:03:39of actual gameplay at him
0:03:41what are they then what are no neasden
0:03:43Steve I don't know there's a line
0:03:45somewhere the college's define games and
0:03:47say what is really boring i just like to
0:03:51thank them more and for going back and
0:03:53explain what GTA stood for things like
0:03:57hugs find they are i don't know who are
0:03:59excellent he just said that an epic game
0:04:02is 30 hours long so is already losing
0:04:04credit fast
0:04:05I'm i meant double digits but there's a
0:04:08lot of hate already here i'll agree with
0:04:10you Justice with journey which I one of
0:04:12the motivating factors that I had for
0:04:13playing of course was that john loves
0:04:15journey but one of the things he said
0:04:16about it he especially loves by the way
0:04:19their their seminal album brace on radio
0:04:22anyway the john loves journey but he
0:04:25said it only takes like three hours to
0:04:27play it's like watching a movie at two
0:04:29hours your life movie and that's how to
0:04:31classify the genre like now people
0:04:33either of these into
0:04:34you know just like two-and-a-half hours
0:04:37play journey but the point the point is
0:04:39that for somebody like me who had who
0:04:41has bought lots of video games over the
0:04:44years and has never finish to any of
0:04:46them
0:04:47I loved the idea that I could play
0:04:49through this whole story and and and get
0:04:52to the end and I wanted to keep playing
0:04:54and find all the little gems and get all
0:04:55the little trophies i could do that but
0:04:57i didn't have to and those these two
0:04:59games felt that way to obviously they're
0:05:01small and self-contained and I and I
0:05:03didn't get that feeling of frustration
0:05:04like you know I'm never gonna play
0:05:07through this whole story because i'm not
0:05:09going to invest 40 hours in the game
0:05:10because i just i'm just not it's not
0:05:12ever gonna happen in my life I did
0:05:14appreciate the fact that neither of
0:05:16these games had collectibles which is
0:05:17something that is increasingly driving
0:05:19me nuts with games got way too much of
0:05:21an OCD touch to avoid actually trying to
0:05:24get everything although I never succeed
0:05:26and that just makes me feel sad it's
0:05:27just a way for them to pad out the game
0:05:28so they can have those huge our accounts
0:05:30and right and and they only did that
0:05:31because they've they felt like it did
0:05:34they ever get slammed by consumers if
0:05:36they didn't like they felt pressure to
0:05:37gain people's like oh we're gonna put
0:05:39out a game and we have a story to tell
0:05:40that story takes about two hours to play
0:05:41but that's not long enough for it's not
0:05:43viable as a product for us LOL game like
0:05:45that so we have to add stuff like stupid
0:05:47collectibles and barriers and then
0:05:49finally in the past few years like you
0:05:50know what if we don't add that people
0:05:52actually like the game even better and
0:05:54so that's what this new market of you
0:05:55know two-hour-long games it's not just
0:05:57the saleable part of like you know at
0:05:58all it's the like we you know the true a
0:06:01title cost 60 bucks right or something
0:06:03like that you know 50 60 bucks i mean
0:06:05people will feel like hey why I can get
0:06:09a movie you know I can watch a movie for
0:06:10like ten dollars that takes up two hours
0:06:12i'm going to play a game that costs
0:06:13sixty dollars better take me longer than
0:06:15two hours right like you get this value
0:06:17equivalency I don't want to tell you how
0:06:19much I want to pay to play journey but
0:06:20like at a certain point differential own
0:06:22energy was really on the stoop
0:06:24especially with the average age of
0:06:26gamers now like up in the thirties or
0:06:28whatever it is a certain point it
0:06:30becomes more valuable to you to get
0:06:32something that you can complete in the
0:06:34amount of time that you would spend on a
0:06:35movie like that that you would pay more
0:06:37than you would if you know i still play
0:06:39games like the other were you know me
0:06:40and my son and putting like 85 hours
0:06:42into a zelda game but I know what I'm
0:06:44getting there and then
0:06:44I'm arguably getting more of my money
0:06:46and my sixty dollars worth out of that
0:06:47then i get $15 into this but i will
0:06:50gladly pay fifteen dollars for a great
0:06:51to our game any day
0:06:53yeah alright let's get started let's
0:06:56talk about gone home which is from the
0:06:57Fulbright company came out is this
0:07:00summer i want to say and it runs it's on
0:07:04it's available on steam it runs on
0:07:06windows mac and linux i played on my
0:07:08macbook air on a foggy cold of summer
0:07:16day at san francisco and this is a this
0:07:20is a first-person game that it really
0:07:22sets you up to be that it's going to be
0:07:26kind of a horror story because it starts
0:07:29off as a dark and stormy night and you
0:07:32are you are a young woman named caitlin
0:07:37who returns home although her family has
0:07:40since she's been in Europe studying
0:07:43abroad she's a they moved to a new house
0:07:46and it's a big house and it's a dark and
0:07:48stormy night and the implication is that
0:07:49there might be something scary going on
0:07:53in there because you're playing a video
0:07:54game and of course that would be what
0:07:55you'd expect but regardless of the of
0:07:58the story what what you find out when
0:08:00Kaitlyn arrives at the front door is
0:08:02that there is nobody in the house and
0:08:05the rest of gamma gone home is
0:08:07essentially Caitlin investigating this
0:08:09house that she's never been in which is
0:08:10good because we've never been in it
0:08:11either and trying to figure out what's
0:08:14going on and what everybody's been doing
0:08:16and why there's nobody there
0:08:17does that sound about right more or less
0:08:18it's charmingly set in the 1995 so
0:08:21there's there's lots of light and
0:08:22written notes and and and answering
0:08:25machine messages and things like that
0:08:26people don't have you know you're not
0:08:28looking at people's text messages or
0:08:29emails but right if you have a
0:08:30smartphone you would have just called
0:08:31like family right
0:08:33this game is this game doesn't work if
0:08:35you have a smartphone so how many people
0:08:36knew anything about this game going in
0:08:40jason said right you you said you
0:08:42thought it would be like a haunted house
0:08:43but did you really did you know anything
0:08:44about it I knew that it took place in a
0:08:46house
0:08:47yeah I avoided most stuff I knew
0:08:49somebody said that it was affecting and
0:08:51that it was not like most games but I
0:08:53knew no details other than that it was
0:08:55said in this house that was
0:08:57that was it yeah I really expected in
0:08:59some ways something that as we will get
0:09:01into was not in this key but the spoiler
0:09:05horn should go off here because you're
0:09:07right it is time let's let's yes let's
0:09:10fire off 44 gone home work firing off a
0:09:14spoiler horn and please come back if if
0:09:16you want to listen to to us talk about
0:09:18brothers but for this next interval here
0:09:21it comes I hear it coming
0:09:27no I kept waiting you know you're
0:09:29creeping around corners and I turned on
0:09:31you can turn on the lights as you go and
0:09:33normally in my life you know i turn the
0:09:35light on my turn the light off and I
0:09:37kind of moved from the house but it's
0:09:38not a game
0:09:39don't we all and your light off is what
0:09:41like me I mean that's one of the most
0:09:43successful things about it for my mind
0:09:44like I remember coming home to me like a
0:09:46house late at night when I was like a
0:09:47teenager and you know my parents are out
0:09:48of town or something and it's like yeah
0:09:50when turn on every light in this house
0:09:52yeah it's gonna be the best thing in the
0:09:53game the best joke in the whole game is
0:09:55where you come upon the cork board with
0:09:57the note to the other daughter and the
0:09:59dad is saying starting the lights on in
0:10:01the house that decision you are of
0:10:04course that sister
0:10:05yeah i'm spending the last 20 minutes of
0:10:07turning on all the lights in the house
0:10:08every single light switch in that house
0:10:10lies on the mat room all the red herring
0:10:12stuff like the X file tapes in the you
0:10:15know living room and all this that I'd
0:10:17like it starts leading you down these
0:10:19paths of thinking it's going to be oh
0:10:20it's gonna be this kind of story and
0:10:22yeah there are so many applicable tropes
0:10:24that they didn't do anything Jason
0:10:25mentioned haunted house but the other
0:10:27ones that i had my mind from playing
0:10:28other video games with a sampler like
0:10:30premises you know unreliable narrator
0:10:32this suicide factor psycho killer any
0:10:36number of the family members a psycho
0:10:38killer body snatchers aliens like there
0:10:40are so many possible during travel ago
0:10:42that you played games exactly like this
0:10:44that when those directions and the great
0:10:46thing about this game is one that
0:10:48doesn't go in those directions but to
0:10:49that it has the playfulness to make
0:10:51faints and almost all those directions
0:10:52at various points so until it settles in
0:10:55until you're totally convinced you could
0:10:56be like alright but they're trying to
0:10:58take me out you know and they do a
0:10:59couple of fake outs like I mean I guess
0:11:00yeah there's a creepy neighbor the
0:11:03psycho house I got to admit that none of
0:11:05that none of the sort of creepy stuff
0:11:07really work for me unfortunately because
0:11:09i would have loved if it had but i don't
0:11:11know maybe i just played far too many of
0:11:13those kinds of games but it never really
0:11:15felt like it was committing in that
0:11:16direction for me
0:11:17well I didn't it's not supposed to be
0:11:18the nothing nothing jumps out and scares
0:11:20you in this game like there's no zombie
0:11:21behind a door there's no you know scary
0:11:24moment a cat does not race across the
0:11:25floor like it that it doesn't do that
0:11:27the only thing that was the closest
0:11:28thing to scare factor is when you're
0:11:30when you're in the first secret passage
0:11:31in the light flickers out for a second
0:11:33and that's that's a good moment but
0:11:34other than that I it i never felt like
0:11:37it was going to take a turn anywhere
0:11:39other than where it did he is
0:11:40re completely because I my experience
0:11:42was very different i played the first
0:11:43half of this on a plane and let me tell
0:11:46you like if you want the full like
0:11:47force-feedback experience when you're
0:11:49like creeping out like a hallway and
0:11:51turning the lights on and you go into a
0:11:53dark room and then your entire plane
0:11:54like it was like a turbulence tip you
0:11:57like okay I gotta stop playing this game
0:11:58thank me out
0:11:59no I did I did play this game in total
0:12:01darkness the new is gonna be one of
0:12:03those types of games are turned off all
0:12:04the lights and everything but I'm like
0:12:05I'm I'm affected by creepiness in mood
0:12:07and everything but mostly what got me in
0:12:09this game with things where they would
0:12:10in a certain point that I had realized
0:12:12it's not going to go in all these
0:12:13different direction right it's gonna be
0:12:14straightforward but then they do things
0:12:16like the like the red hair dye in the
0:12:17bathtub you have got that was facing
0:12:19that direction or even things like you
0:12:21know the Attic with the red lights in
0:12:23the Attic even at that point i'd know
0:12:24it's not gonna be that kind of story but
0:12:26I'm still a little weird and the most
0:12:27for the flickering lights from the TV
0:12:29room when you first yeah and you know
0:12:31and the thing the thing that got me is
0:12:33when I came home the most was at a
0:12:35certain point you open up one of the
0:12:36secret passages and you get know you
0:12:38think you're down to the basement or
0:12:40something yeah basement is really dark
0:12:41and there were candles and began any
0:12:43game with candles like I you know I
0:12:44stopped I went back I got a candle i
0:12:47went to get a match to light the candle
0:12:48but there are no matches in the
0:12:49matchbook and I'm like what am i doing
0:12:51and you can't use anything on anything
0:12:53else anyway so it was a bit of a fluid
0:12:54is not making progress in the game
0:12:56basically because I didn't want to go
0:12:57down into the dark basement because yeah
0:12:59one department is like being a gamer
0:13:01it's like look they have candles this
0:13:03guy i don't know whether to be impressed
0:13:04with the game or just sad for you well
0:13:06know because like the part of the gamers
0:13:08things I'm I kept looking for you know
0:13:10use X on Y like text adventure type type
0:13:13stuff like that it was kind of a little
0:13:15bit ly none of it was important to the
0:13:17gameplay and I figured these candles are
0:13:19here like it was the curse of this game
0:13:20if you're a gamer so many things were
0:13:22interactive that didn't need to be that
0:13:24I think that is a pretty fair critique
0:13:25their there's all its really again it is
0:13:28it a game it's more of this kind of
0:13:29mildly interactive experience there's
0:13:31always things that look like maybe it
0:13:32should be a puzzle but they're not right
0:13:35and even other kind of the secrets that
0:13:37you find the secret passageways and the
0:13:39panels and things like that you can
0:13:41actually find those and open those
0:13:42before the game tells you to which a lot
0:13:44of other games you wouldn't write like
0:13:46the parent wouldn't be movable until you
0:13:47found the note that says it i mean
0:13:49theoretically i looked at it afterward
0:13:51you could beat this game in three
0:13:52minutes if you click on the right
0:13:54stuff you have no idea what's going on
0:13:55but but you could kind of jump around
0:13:58without being directed where stuff is
0:14:00I did a little bit of it out of order to
0:14:01actually realize toward the end that
0:14:03there was one portion that I had to go
0:14:05there was a little corner of the
0:14:07downstairs that I hadn't covered and so
0:14:09there was something that didn't make any
0:14:11sense and i realized i needed to go and
0:14:12I have to go back downstairs and over
0:14:14the laundry room and then there was a
0:14:16whole little threat over there that
0:14:17opened up a few things and then I could
0:14:19finally go and resolve the rest of the
0:14:21game because i just happened to do it
0:14:23out of order and that was fine
0:14:24sure well Steve must have done like the
0:14:26completionist about the collectibles and
0:14:27stuff like I'm total i've added the
0:14:29gamers or two I did like hundred percent
0:14:32completion exhaustive search of every
0:14:34rock and cranny and i feel like i did
0:14:35the game exactly the order that the
0:14:37Gamemakers intended you to do because
0:14:39it's the water that a gamer would do
0:14:40like go in you know it maybe I took a
0:14:43left instead of right first or whatever
0:14:44but I swept this game from beginning to
0:14:46end and i don't think i mislike a single
0:14:48thing and it makes for a very coherent
0:14:51story like a reasonably good short story
0:14:54but you can I if if this I didn't
0:14:56realize the panels would be openable I'm
0:14:58gonna get you could totally break the
0:14:59story which is racing up in the wrong
0:15:00place at the lot of material and I think
0:15:02you know you can even mix you can
0:15:03experience stuff and kind of strange
0:15:05order i mean the answering machine right
0:15:07in the front hall has the voicemail from
0:15:08Lonni on it and you don't know who you
0:15:11are is yeah that's I assumed I was
0:15:12intended i don't know i mean i think
0:15:14it's i think it's intended to work
0:15:16either way
0:15:16yeah that was one of the first things i
0:15:17hit was this the answering machine yeah
0:15:19they know what's going to write to that
0:15:20I think there is an argument about
0:15:22whether or not is there in order and
0:15:25there are differences that I i canna
0:15:26you're not endorsed on Rails I don't
0:15:28know there's a cool there's a clear
0:15:29order and additionally there are
0:15:31organized by date speak but you don't
0:15:33experience them necessarily are they
0:15:35specifically tied two locations or they
0:15:37do they cross the Marzano they are they
0:15:39are tied to locations i can say this
0:15:41definitely because i had an inventory
0:15:43items as well but you don't have to pick
0:15:45up all them i had to restart after about
0:15:47an hour and a half of play time because
0:15:48it ate my save game for some reason and
0:15:51actually initially i usually I
0:15:52appreciate the fact that you have more
0:15:54options open to you can try things in a
0:15:55different way and the first time i
0:15:57played actually went up the stairs first
0:15:59because their lights on up there and I
0:16:01thought well if I was walking in and I
0:16:03was looking for people who are home
0:16:04we're gonna go i'm gonna go where the
0:16:06lights are clearly on
0:16:07so I headed up the stairs and I kind of
0:16:09did things a little out of order and it
0:16:11was it was still pretty clear what the
0:16:13narrative was that was forming there but
0:16:15when i restarted it I I realize you know
0:16:18it's very clear that they want this to
0:16:19be done in a certain order for it to
0:16:21make the right kind of sense you know
0:16:23for you really appreciate the story
0:16:24properly and i actually found it kind of
0:16:26annoying that i was allowed to take the
0:16:28the alternate route because I wanted I
0:16:30this game is so clearly about telling a
0:16:33story and I wanted to be told the story
0:16:35the way it was supposed to be told as
0:16:37opposed to getting it piecemeal it's the
0:16:39locked doors and lack of information
0:16:41that's trying to put your along a linear
0:16:43path and so I don't for making the
0:16:45panel's movable unlock doors really like
0:16:46look regal or a little a little
0:16:48exploration here but we don't want
0:16:50people to totally break the game and if
0:16:52you don't know about the panel's the
0:16:53odds of you and going lighter
0:16:55environments like every single panel i
0:16:56mean i was picking those I was being
0:16:57completionist but I was doing it mostly
0:16:59with items that i thought would be
0:17:00interactive and I was getting frustrated
0:17:01because like every single soda can and
0:17:03potato chip bags interactive and
0:17:05single-handed box i looked in every side
0:17:07of like a certain point you realize this
0:17:09isn't resident evil I don't need to turn
0:17:10every item over to make sure there's not
0:17:11a lot I can be on the bottom that opens
0:17:14up there reveals a key you know it but
0:17:16once I broke myself those habits i still
0:17:18found myself picking on Adams that new
0:17:20probably wouldn't be worth it you know
0:17:21right it's just it's it's a hard habit
0:17:23to break but just throwing cans all of
0:17:25that kind of it's kind of like it's kind
0:17:27of like a journey where if you play the
0:17:29game over and over again which I have
0:17:30you see the parts where you can break
0:17:31out of it but my first run-through of
0:17:32journey I felt like I was exactly like
0:17:34me and the game designers were exactly
0:17:36you know in sync and everything was
0:17:38happening the right time and gone home
0:17:39did that a few times because i think i
0:17:41followed the linear path and also the
0:17:43journals which are either location or
0:17:44item-based triggered sometimes like
0:17:46they'd be fighting because I'd like a
0:17:48tape that I was playing and then like
0:17:49the journal would play with Jessica and
0:17:51they would fight with each other and
0:17:51that wasn't good but like others music
0:17:54yeah one or two times though the the
0:17:57journal start playing at just the right
0:17:58moment and made a very cinematic
0:17:59experience like I think was one of the
0:18:01last journal things was playing as I was
0:18:03racing up to the attic for like that
0:18:05yeah the final anything like that right
0:18:06that sometimes it really worked anybody
0:18:08really worked it was great and it's
0:18:09difficult to pull it off it's like you
0:18:11know it's like my favorite a recall
0:18:13Fincher movie the game where when
0:18:15everything comes together and i'll
0:18:17answer on the X in the air bag with the
0:18:18revelation happening
0:18:19like it's really difficult to do that in
0:18:21real life and so that's what this game
0:18:22makers are trying to do is trying to
0:18:23give you a game where they arranged it
0:18:26all for you to have some sort of
0:18:27experience revelation but also make you
0:18:29feel like you are free acting individual
0:18:31the entire time that I think that's the
0:18:32interesting thing about you have freedom
0:18:34you know you you unlock one of the
0:18:35journals and you start hearing your
0:18:37sister talk to you and it's you stand
0:18:38there and listen the whole time do you
0:18:40keep continue searching the room do you
0:18:42walk down the spooky whore corridor well
0:18:44well she continues to talk to you about
0:18:46something and you know it's not like
0:18:48you're on Rails this is what you're
0:18:49going to experience right
0:18:51I couldn't stand the thought that I was
0:18:52gonna miss it so i had to stand there
0:18:54listed all things and I'm gonna go back
0:18:56I mean I finish the story i went back
0:18:58and saw because there's kind of three
0:19:00locked areas you can get into one that
0:19:02you have to advance the story and I
0:19:03figured out how to get the other two
0:19:04which you don't have to and could I
0:19:06guess proceed push presumably you could
0:19:08open the safe in the basement or the
0:19:09locked file cabinet in the office
0:19:11without you can complete the story
0:19:13without doing that but you miss out on
0:19:15kind of bits of it but you know I
0:19:17checked I didn't find all the journals
0:19:18and i finished the story so you know
0:19:20I've got the first and I've got the end
0:19:21and there's a lot of stuff in the middle
0:19:23that you have to find progress but
0:19:24there's clearly other stuff that you
0:19:26don't have to find a progress
0:19:27alright a brief cutscene inserted in
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0:21:13incomparable let's talk about the actual
0:21:15story though because like the story of
0:21:16this is kind of is not lost ask us just
0:21:20the thing i always think of when like
0:21:21every character in the story has a thing
0:21:23about right like what and obviously the
0:21:27central thing is the sisters deal and
0:21:29you're trying to share what is this is
0:21:30Lucille but every member of this family
0:21:31has a problem and I don't know like I
0:21:35guess that's is it realistic i don't
0:21:36know i felt like if they had
0:21:37concentrated more on under the sisters
0:21:41story and distracted me less with items
0:21:44throughout the house and let me learn
0:21:45what every other person's problem is
0:21:47never any other things I didn't learn
0:21:48what my problem is as the heat up that I
0:21:50apparently I'm happy off in your blanket
0:21:52around right now you are you're kind of
0:21:54a boring person actually can be compared
0:21:57to everyone else of the mothers is gone
0:21:58with the forestry guy and the fathers
0:22:00who is like you know i'm potentially
0:22:02ripping off Stephen King a decade
0:22:03earlier with this 1963 book and he's got
0:22:06that I was thinking picturing the file
0:22:07like cigarette smoking man sending a
0:22:09science-fiction stories in and trying to
0:22:11get them you know and doing stereo
0:22:12reviews and going crazy and the crazy
0:22:14uncle like everyone's got some backstory
0:22:16that itself would make a game
0:22:17yeah but your backstories youryour
0:22:19apparently the perfect daughter you know
0:22:21I imagine Caitlyn has all sorts of
0:22:23stories to tell about Europe but
0:22:24unfortunately she's got to deal with her
0:22:27messed-up family first
0:22:28or maybe her story is about running away
0:22:30from all that right yeah maybe so i
0:22:32don't know I kept finding was with
0:22:34trophies and first-place ribbons and I
0:22:36kept thinking man Lester she's the
0:22:37perfect daughter
0:22:38yeah I must really made it rough on the
0:22:40younger sister and
0:22:41someone has a 3 bring binder fetish i
0:22:43guess that's what I'm saying everyone's
0:22:45people are single-handedly keeping the
0:22:46Portland three-ring binder and portable
0:22:48tape player industries in business
0:22:50because there's binders everywhere
0:22:53everywhere and they have at least 70
0:22:55players mi only one who kept trying to
0:22:57turn that tape over and play the other
0:22:59side yeah i know i was driving me nuts
0:23:02I'd like to turn things around spent i
0:23:04pry spent more time in the game flipping
0:23:05the cassette holder so i could see
0:23:07inside inside yeah then I did anywhere
0:23:11else in the game but i really enjoyed
0:23:13that I enjoyed that I mean that they're
0:23:15the one of the things that works about
0:23:16this game for me is it is yes in the
0:23:19story or the you're the daughter who's
0:23:21trying to figure out what's going on but
0:23:22in that on that second level your this
0:23:25boy are you are walking through these
0:23:26people's lives trying to or you're the
0:23:28detective if you want to look at it that
0:23:30way you're walking through these
0:23:30people's lives trying to figure out from
0:23:32all of these found items what the heck
0:23:35is going on and you discovered like John
0:23:37said you discovered that it's not just
0:23:39this main story about about the the
0:23:42younger daughter
0:23:43it's also the story about the mother and
0:23:45the father and and what's going on with
0:23:47them in his writing career and-and and
0:23:50their their marriage is approval from as
0:23:53a his father
0:23:55yeah oh yes yeah exactly i think it does
0:23:57a very nice job at kind of making that
0:23:59feeling unsettling experience right like
0:24:01it first you kind of feels like you're
0:24:03going through and you're like you're
0:24:04trying to solve this mystery of what
0:24:06happened to people and as you kind of
0:24:07find out for example that you know the
0:24:09the answer to where your mother and
0:24:11father is you know somewhat mundane you
0:24:13know they're not dead or you know or or
0:24:15lost
0:24:16no but they're in couples counseling
0:24:17different couples counseling but you now
0:24:19feel unsettled right i mean you kind of
0:24:22think that you know you're going through
0:24:23other their you know their laundry and
0:24:25whatnot because you're worried about
0:24:26them and you try to find out their
0:24:27location and you end up kind of finding
0:24:30more than perhaps you were entitled to
0:24:32find somebody that like that part works
0:24:34with you being part of the family but as
0:24:36that as the journals later say it's like
0:24:38all you always know about me right Kate
0:24:40little maybe the Caitlyn did but I you
0:24:41know we didn't as the game player so
0:24:43there's an assume familiarity like the
0:24:46actual Caitlyn would know more than we
0:24:47do which is bad in the beginning but
0:24:49towards the end if you start to identify
0:24:50with her then you're a little bit
0:24:51freaked out that this is court your
0:24:53family that had
0:24:54these problems and maybe you didn't know
0:24:56about them before so that I do like the
0:24:57fact that midway through your thinking
0:24:59while this whole family has gone
0:25:00completely to hell yeah and if you
0:25:04figure God may be that the little sister
0:25:06swinging in the attic and deb with the
0:25:08wife mom is out with the Ranger Rick you
0:25:11know I'm the forest some dad is not as a
0:25:13bunch of people you know what that is
0:25:14yet the bottom of a bottle somewhere it
0:25:16may be walking around in the basement
0:25:18and then and then in the end it turns
0:25:19out everything's kind of turned out okay
0:25:21with order which is cool
0:25:22it's just that it's just the horror of
0:25:23everyday life Steve yeah more or less
0:25:26I was dreading going up into that attic
0:25:28I mean when I first walked down that
0:25:29hallway and there were the red lights
0:25:31that I was like nope gonna get every
0:25:32other room before I there
0:25:34oh I think Steve's point about the the
0:25:36hair dye one that one yeah because i
0:25:38just got to that point where I felt like
0:25:39all right I kind of know what's going on
0:25:40me you fucking looking and there's the
0:25:42red stain all over the top and you're
0:25:44like oh my god what happened to you and
0:25:47then you see the box of hair dye and
0:25:48it's like uh okay and I you know I
0:25:51wasn't sure also in terms of the idea
0:25:52that there are the dates have their own
0:25:54little story going on with the different
0:25:56parts of the family
0:25:57um you know in some ways that was a
0:25:58little distracting I wondered if they
0:25:59were supposed to be a thing where they
0:26:01kind of fit together in some way I mean
0:26:03there's its kind of its they leave it it
0:26:05seems like somewhat unclear what the the
0:26:08father's big issues from his traumatic
0:26:10childhood experience but you know does
0:26:12that play into the complications and in
0:26:14his relationship with your sister then
0:26:16in terms of her his unwillingness to you
0:26:18know basically tolerate her behavior so
0:26:20i wasn't sure if there was an attempt to
0:26:22kind of attach these two things together
0:26:24in terms of how the stories 50 million
0:26:25but the parents are not approving of the
0:26:27sister-like show they're there and so I
0:26:29don't know how it's not a happy ending
0:26:31because the parents haven't come to
0:26:33terms that she has run away and I guess
0:26:34it's happy for her kind of but you as a
0:26:36sister like well now my family has
0:26:38exploded live in common right we should
0:26:40we should say I think we did mention
0:26:41that so what we did what we discover and
0:26:43the main through line of this story is
0:26:45is discovering that the little sister
0:26:47Sam has met a friend who's a kind of a
0:26:50rebel you know rebellious girl named
0:26:56Lanna Loni Loni Loni who I we get to
0:27:00know as as the story progresses and they
0:27:03get so they get to know each other and
0:27:05they fall in love and so the the so the
0:27:08parents are not understanding of the
0:27:10fact that their daughter is a lesbian
0:27:11says she's going through a phase
0:27:14Lonnie meanwhile you know it's not a
0:27:16perfect character and and you know it
0:27:18and then Lonnie's turns out is signing
0:27:20up to join the army and is going to
0:27:22leave which really upset Sam and this is
0:27:24the story that's being told so you know
0:27:26you that that's the I really the core
0:27:29there are all these other other stories
0:27:30and that's that
0:27:31that story unfolds not only as a as
0:27:34Caitlyn goes through through sam's room
0:27:37but it also unfolds Caitlyn goes through
0:27:40a series of secret passageway into like
0:27:44like the servants quarters i guess it
0:27:47turns out of this house which sam and
0:27:49Lonnie kind of like took over as their
0:27:51Clubhouse and as you discover those
0:27:53secret entries you also find the secrets
0:27:56of their of their relationship as as a
0:27:59teenager's falling in love and making
0:28:00mixtapes of bad punk bands and scenes
0:28:04and publishing the readings right he's
0:28:06right
0:28:07good idea awesome scene follicles should
0:28:11have been more computers in this because
0:28:12like we had computers in the nineties
0:28:14i'm pretty sure it's non-refundable they
0:28:17weren't no one night is usually what you
0:28:19pick with this yet just about an hour
0:28:20before caitlyn got to the house
0:28:22a robber came and stole over computers
0:28:25yeah well it's apparently they took all
0:28:26the VCRs you have the nintendo listen I
0:28:29should attach them to go with yeah just
0:28:32as soon as licensing restrictions
0:28:33because they had all that all the SNES
0:28:35cartridges in there but with the crazy
0:28:36labels on them and everything
0:28:38yeah so I want this let's talk about the
0:28:40house just because i wanted to say might
0:28:43one of my number one things when i went
0:28:44through this game was a boy I would love
0:28:47a house like this I've always dreamed
0:28:48about having a house with like secret
0:28:50stuff in it and this this has got all
0:28:51the secret passageways their secret
0:28:53passageways everywhere in this house
0:28:55it's like houses secret I i know it into
0:28:58the square footage for the tax assessor
0:28:59like well it seems to me it seems your
0:29:01house looks a lot bigger on the outside
0:29:02it's like the opposite of the trusting
0:29:04ducting there's just lots of big air
0:29:06ducts it's not there's not nothing back
0:29:09there
0:29:09it's the cigarette one and eat artist
0:29:11lane but it's it's the you know they say
0:29:13that it's the it's the servants quarters
0:29:15or whatever but it's just there's that
0:29:16moment where i think i found it i think
0:29:18i was in the closet in one of the bed in
0:29:20one of the bedrooms right and there's
0:29:21like things like the button up on the
0:29:24ceiling of the closet and I'm like huh
0:29:26what's that
0:29:28boom rubber room one like whoo secret
0:29:30passageway right and that was very
0:29:33exciting because I i love that i want
0:29:35you know I want that bookshelf that
0:29:36slides away and reveals a whole room
0:29:38behind it which sadly I'd I don't have
0:29:40so I i was thinking this house is really
0:29:43creepy and yet i'm really i'm really
0:29:44loving all the secret passageway stuff
0:29:46that was just on its own i love that and
0:29:48then
0:29:48oh we should mention too there's the
0:29:50whole day inherit this house from the
0:29:52what is an old uncle uncle Oscar and he
0:29:55has a tragic story of his own to that we
0:29:58learn it mostly in the in the basement
0:30:00in that secret area all the way down in
0:30:02the basement where there's the safe okay
0:30:05let me let me ask then
0:30:06is this his tragic story alone or is it
0:30:09off his and the father's yeah I think
0:30:12raising location IE that's what I was
0:30:14trying to figure because you know that
0:30:16we've got the the darkroom with the
0:30:18light doesn't work that's got the toy
0:30:20horse in it and right around the corner
0:30:22there and the servants quarters we've
0:30:23got what is the father's name terry yeah
0:30:27yeah we've got his markings on the wall
0:30:30of how tall he is growing each
0:30:31thanksgiving and then it stops suddenly
0:30:34in 1963 which coincidentally is the year
0:30:38the Kennedy assassination which suggests
0:30:40that maybe that's why Terry's got that
0:30:41in his mind so vividly and so I'm
0:30:44thinking is this a mala station story or
0:30:47what I think I think you got it yep
0:30:49where is the note that we're reading is
0:30:50his is his transgression that the family
0:30:53is so ticked off at him about something
0:30:55else but yeah that's that's the feeling
0:30:57I got there I was just curious whether
0:30:58everybody else thinks everyone that
0:31:00seems to be the heavy implication i saw
0:31:03other people suggest that maybe you know
0:31:04he came out to his family and night in
0:31:06nineteen sixties with that doesn't then
0:31:08connect is nicely into you know
0:31:09everything running with I like the fact
0:31:11that they didn't have to nail a nail it
0:31:13down because you can that any of these
0:31:15interpretations are perfectly fine like
0:31:16that's not the point of the story like
0:31:18we understand you know they're there are
0:31:19problems here and we do we need to know
0:31:21the exact details you don't really don't
0:31:23really know in fact I didn't open the
0:31:25lock things I mean I couldn't the couple
0:31:27of them because i had trouble finding I
0:31:29open sans locker I didn't open the safe
0:31:32in the basement I think now and the
0:31:33combination for tonight
0:31:34and spend a lot of I was like all right
0:31:35I can spend time working on this or I
0:31:37can I like keep going through the story
0:31:38so yeah used to me
0:31:41yep so in the safe and the in the
0:31:43basement dan there's in addition to he
0:31:46has a nice collection of narcotics there
0:31:49specifically morning and then a letter
0:31:51to i believe his sister in which dated
0:31:55years ago in which you basically you
0:31:56know which is quite classic apologize
0:31:58area yes yes right his transgression
0:32:01without getting into the specifics of of
0:32:04that
0:32:05yeah well I mean any I think you know
0:32:06there's a point to there are
0:32:08interpretations and there are things
0:32:09that are or are not important
0:32:11necessarily to comprehending the entire
0:32:13game
0:32:13yeah but yeah it is interesting it is a
0:32:15layered story which is that if you're
0:32:17gonna throw that aspect it I kind of
0:32:19wish it actually had some impact on the
0:32:21story and I don't really see that there
0:32:23was no I mean it doesn't that you can
0:32:25imagine like how it makes the follow the
0:32:26person that he is and how it out to his
0:32:29feet his tortured life and where it came
0:32:32from and how he sort of takes it out of
0:32:33his daughter are not being understanding
0:32:35about that you know like but it works in
0:32:37a family dynamic in that you don't
0:32:38always know the details of all the deep
0:32:41dark things in your very own family like
0:32:43that's the one place you're very likely
0:32:44not to know the details right but why is
0:32:46uncle bobby gone now or like what was
0:32:48the deal with these two and those
0:32:50secrets died with people and so I think
0:32:52it's reasonable for you in 1995 to be a
0:32:55look through this stuff and kind of get
0:32:56a good idea of what was going on but not
0:32:58to have anyone available certainly not
0:32:59immediately in the time this game to
0:33:01tell you what's the real deal like we
0:33:03just wanted to explain to us like tell
0:33:04me exactly what happened on the
0:33:05omniscient narrator know if it's your
0:33:07family maybe you don't know maybe you'll
0:33:08never know
0:33:09yep and we get I think there's there's a
0:33:11lot of little hints like that right i
0:33:12mean one of the other things you find in
0:33:14the basement is the father's father the
0:33:17father has a painting of his father the
0:33:19faces torn outfits like the letter the
0:33:21letter from his father which is you can
0:33:23do better
0:33:24you can do better it out you know he's
0:33:25got his father of you know signs it
0:33:27formally you know your father below PhD
0:33:30and it's you know I mean we we don't
0:33:32know what happens with a relationship
0:33:34maybe he really likes the second book
0:33:35problem yeah that's equally much better
0:33:38but I mean that there was a really
0:33:40really clear line between his his
0:33:42father's disapproval of him and all the
0:33:44stuff that he was going through and I
0:33:45didn't see that there was any kind of in
0:33:47vacation that that the potential mala
0:33:49station was weighing heavy on him and so
0:33:52I just thought that was kind of odd
0:33:53well I think it was the 1963 connection
0:33:55with like that was you know the whole
0:33:57thing where you stick your arm and a
0:33:58bucket of ice water and then memorize
0:33:59numbers better like something traumatic
0:34:01happens to you then like the thing that
0:34:03the other thing that happened that you
0:34:04list forever linked in your mind is
0:34:05always obsessed with writing about JFK
0:34:07for the rest of his life and you know
0:34:08and they keep it vague but I mean
0:34:09there's also i think the idea he then
0:34:12has to move back to this house where
0:34:14that may have happened and now he's
0:34:15falling apart right his yes that was a
0:34:18bad choice problem there's the alcohol
0:34:20hidden throughout and there's all this
0:34:21stuff where you know
0:34:22yeah I mean maybe maybe that is kind of
0:34:24the source of all this problems right
0:34:26maybe if they you know if that hadn't
0:34:27happened to them and they were in this
0:34:28house his relationship with his daughter
0:34:30may be different i can inherit the house
0:34:31then just sell it they don't realize
0:34:32that the movement yeah i know it's that
0:34:34kind of ruined it a little bit for many
0:34:35people but they have no their money
0:34:37right in it and that's like that was one
0:34:39of the first letters i found yeah it was
0:34:41a Carol Carol Carol friends like all you
0:34:44know I always wanted to mention and you
0:34:45wanted a house in the woods and you got
0:34:47both right
0:34:47yeah I you know you could have imagined
0:34:49that they felt they had to go there a
0:34:52secret secret passageways got your
0:34:54passage with Jason would be there in a
0:34:55second email with my hair got murdered
0:34:58I don't know Ian ghostly was yours have
0:35:01his way there's a lot of capacities hear
0:35:02ya talkin about the letters I I
0:35:05appreciate the fact that you know we've
0:35:08been god
0:35:08well you as the the elder daughter has
0:35:11been gone for a year so you've got
0:35:12you've got a year's worth of time to
0:35:14make up you gotta find out what happened
0:35:16in the interim the fact that in order to
0:35:19kind of fill in all the gaps we had
0:35:21letters that were written like by the
0:35:24phone phone messages that were there for
0:35:26a year ago that somehow never got picked
0:35:28up and thrown away I and and then it
0:35:32seems like neatly as you're exploring
0:35:33the house you're finding things from
0:35:34later and later in the year that that
0:35:36really kind of took me out of it i wish
0:35:37there been another way they could have
0:35:38done that
0:35:39it's tough not to do that you're not
0:35:40going to have it you're not gonna have
0:35:41an actual years whether written history
0:35:43in an actual house but the only thing I
0:35:45think the way you're supposed to kind of
0:35:47conceptualizing I don't think they did a
0:35:48great job in it which is where that's
0:35:50coming from all of the the journals that
0:35:52she's kind of reading to you I think the
0:35:53idea is that your kind of experiencing
0:35:55them even though you you don't actually
0:35:56get them all until you go up in the
0:35:58Apple you read the polity and all right
0:36:00that's that that's the flash-forward
0:36:02thing that doesn't bother me it's just
0:36:04that it's just the letters the letter
0:36:07from the publisher from 1978 that just
0:36:09happens to be sitting out in a box
0:36:11yeah and I guess maybe someone that's
0:36:12kind of a hand waving because like you
0:36:14know they've moved in right and that
0:36:15adds to the like right now is the house
0:36:17of disaster area because it was looted
0:36:19or because many years people unpack
0:36:21already you know when you may say
0:36:23momentous letters like a lot of letters
0:36:25you find that are meaningful and you can
0:36:26imagine all you want to save this the
0:36:28first letters that we got a letter where
0:36:29you going to do your job offer and
0:36:31things like that right you could imagine
0:36:32those could be they haven't been in the
0:36:34house for a year they moved recently to
0:36:37the house right now they've been there
0:36:38for almost an entire year based on that
0:36:40first packing slip from the movers I
0:36:43just make any sense of it because it's
0:36:44all still in boxes have you moved a lot
0:36:46it takes a while to get all the boxes
0:36:48out it doesn't take a year though to get
0:36:50revenge on the people it's the foyer for
0:36:53God's sake that's the first place where
0:36:54you move the boxes out of so if guests
0:36:56come to check out your new digs they
0:36:58don't trip over boxy we're going to your
0:37:00basement were inspecting it i'm just
0:37:01saying i moved after living in the same
0:37:03place for five years and there were
0:37:05boxes that were not unpacked and let me
0:37:06tell you nothing useful in those all I'm
0:37:09saying is this game lives or dies based
0:37:12on based on whether i can relate to the
0:37:14character and whether i can get into
0:37:16exploring the house and feeling like i'm
0:37:18kailyn and when there's so much stuff
0:37:20around that very clearly isn't realistic
0:37:22it it took me out of it but you have to
0:37:25be ready to be to give into the mood and
0:37:26atmosphere like you have to go anything
0:37:28I'm knowing that knowing it's going to
0:37:29be that type of game and being in the
0:37:31right mindset or on a plane in the dark
0:37:33and just and i'm going to i'm going to
0:37:35give myself to this experience and
0:37:36especially if you're played a lot of
0:37:38other games you have to look I can
0:37:40handle this type of game and I can
0:37:42accept it or it just bothers me I'll
0:37:43never be able to accept it and I'm i'm a
0:37:45total sucker for like slightly moody
0:37:47lighting some good music and like all
0:37:49right fine you got me I'm ready to go
0:37:51and very little will take me out of it
0:37:52except for things that break that mood
0:37:54and i think they held they held the mood
0:37:57they were consistent throughout the game
0:37:58they didn't there wasn't a spot where I
0:38:00felt like I now you have to do a you
0:38:02know a puzzle looks like pipe dream to
0:38:03pretend you're hacking or you know
0:38:04something crazy thing like that jumping
0:38:06a little it was tell you is no no
0:38:08platforming right it really means is you
0:38:10know it was very consistent and so like
0:38:12I said that the thing
0:38:13you can manipulate that you are
0:38:14pointless they were there throughout the
0:38:16whole game and I just had to come to
0:38:17accept them but the atmosphere i felt
0:38:20like held the whole time and built to a
0:38:21satisfying conclusion i thought the the
0:38:23ending of it walking up to the journal
0:38:25and realizing that you've been hearing
0:38:27during the entire game all the things
0:38:28that you read later work that work for
0:38:30me I like I liked it
0:38:32let's let's talk about the ultimately
0:38:35how everybody felt about about playing
0:38:39this game I I i liked it i enjoyed the
0:38:42you know couple hours I spent with it on
0:38:44a Sunday morning I thought I you know it
0:38:47was not one of those kind of super
0:38:51frustrating puzzle kind of game
0:38:52experiences it was much more like I was
0:38:54walking through and discovering things
0:38:56and in more or less the right order but
0:38:58I i appreciated this method of
0:39:01storytelling and then it was a little
0:39:03bit different and yet i was i was seeing
0:39:05these kind of interlocked stories and
0:39:06discovering in an interesting way and I
0:39:08i did like the fact that it submitted my
0:39:10expectations and that I was you know in
0:39:14the dark and stormy night I was really
0:39:15expecting something a little more
0:39:17adventurous than I actually got but i
0:39:19did i did enjoy it i'm wondering you
0:39:22know what you guys think in terms of
0:39:24your product on on on gone home
0:39:26I was a little surprised by how short it
0:39:28was um I mean I guess I got to the end I
0:39:30was left wanting more which is not a bad
0:39:32thing there's so many other games I play
0:39:33where they seemed to drag on but I was a
0:39:36little surprised by how short it was but
0:39:38i liked it i would recommend it
0:39:40I honestly found it kind of boring and I
0:39:45hate to say that because i love indie
0:39:47games and I really see what they were
0:39:48trying to get get out here but the the
0:39:52atmosphere just never really worked for
0:39:53me that the contrived stuff laying
0:39:56around just took me out of that
0:39:57atmosphere constantly and I thought that
0:40:01the the whole love story plot line was
0:40:03very sweet and very well done and that's
0:40:05mostly down to really good writing for
0:40:08the two girls like the the notes that
0:40:11they've written back and forth really
0:40:12ring true for me they felt like
0:40:14teenagers in a way that fictional
0:40:15characters are things you need
0:40:17successfully kind of took me back to
0:40:19that period where everything seemed like
0:40:22it was heartbreak you know and and so I
0:40:24thought that all work very well and I
0:40:26thought the
0:40:27whoever the voice actresses that did Sam
0:40:29was terrific
0:40:31yes because she had a real nice sound
0:40:33and she sounded very heartfelt and and
0:40:36really fit the part very well but to me
0:40:39I sit down for a game and I want to play
0:40:42a game you know and this this was more
0:40:44or less we can debate endlessly what
0:40:47constitutes a game but i think there is
0:40:49a line where you know you've stopped
0:40:52playing a game and you're you're
0:40:53basically experiencing a Judy Blume
0:40:55novel with a really convoluted page
0:40:57turning mechanism know and this I think
0:41:00was was over that line for me I I you
0:41:02know I understand that other people
0:41:04probably feel very differently about it
0:41:05but didn't really work for me and I i
0:41:08really enjoyed it i mean III playing ki
0:41:11played in two sessions and so I had that
0:41:12first instinct was session on the plane
0:41:14where I played for an hour or so and at
0:41:17that point was like really creeped out
0:41:18and kind of put away because I was like
0:41:19all right I need to put this you know
0:41:21come back to this when I'm not on a
0:41:22plane in the darkness over the over the
0:41:25middle of the country and I played it
0:41:27like an afternoon and so it was it at
0:41:29that point i think it was right around
0:41:30the time at which you start getting a
0:41:32better idea of what kind of game it was
0:41:33so the mood for me while still creepy at
0:41:38times and sort of having that eerie
0:41:39movie atmosphere that the job was
0:41:41talking about a it it's often a little
0:41:44bit both probably by being in daylight
0:41:45and because i was starting to get a
0:41:46clearer picture of what the story was
0:41:48about and I think you know Steve's right
0:41:50that this is there's a lot of this
0:41:52that's more story like in terms of you
0:41:54know being told a story but i don't know
0:41:56i mean i still thought as a game it was
0:41:58fun and interesting it was a yeah i
0:42:01don't--there's there's room for a lot of
0:42:02different types of games in this for me
0:42:03you know well not like many of the other
0:42:06games that I play I think it was still
0:42:08worthwhile experience and it was an
0:42:09interesting story and I enjoyed the way
0:42:11that it was presented and clearly as
0:42:14someone who didn't go through in like
0:42:15unlock everything cream you know maybe I
0:42:19didn't get the most out of it that I
0:42:21could have but I still thought it was
0:42:22pretty good as we're going to find that
0:42:24in a moment I thought gone home was much
0:42:27more successful than brothers I think
0:42:29and it instantly it's I think it's of
0:42:31interest to a narrow group of people
0:42:34than brothers is and I think gone home
0:42:37requires more empathy
0:42:40charity and life experience to
0:42:41appreciate like a 12 year olds not gonna
0:42:43play gone home and you know get into it
0:42:45or maybe they would I don't know but it
0:42:46seems like not it's not as broad and in
0:42:49terms of like what is a game what isn't
0:42:50I i was filled that what gaming brings
0:42:53to the experience is the idea that you
0:42:57are making things happen not that you
0:43:00like oh I can change the game in the end
0:43:02of the end of my game the house blew up
0:43:03or anything like that it's it's the
0:43:06illusion of of control and agent this
0:43:09year just the sheer fact that you're
0:43:10participating you said I was
0:43:11sophisticated way of paper showing a
0:43:13sufficiently sophisticated technique of
0:43:15page-turning brings me at least into the
0:43:17story more because i feel like i am i am
0:43:20participating I'm like you get the same
0:43:21thing when you read a book like you an
0:43:22empty empathize with the character lead
0:43:24character whatever but the act of
0:43:26walking around doing that stuff and
0:43:27looking through things yourself as
0:43:29little as it may matter to the outcome
0:43:31of the game or maybe your become totally
0:43:33longer else or whatever I if you don't
0:43:36feel that and I didn't feel that much
0:43:39during this game it makes the story more
0:43:41meaningful to me than if I had simply
0:43:43read those journal entries on let that's
0:43:44my yardstick you put the text of this
0:43:46game into a book and read it versus me
0:43:48playing this game i'll pick the game any
0:43:49day of the week with the exact same
0:43:50words and that I feel like it's what
0:43:52gaming brings to this above and beyond a
0:43:55story I very much agree with what you're
0:43:57saying there and when I thought exactly
0:43:59the opposite i thought this could be
0:44:01done better in a book with with the same
0:44:04thing with the same text now well I mean
0:44:06you have to have to structure in such a
0:44:08way that it wasn't ridiculous I mean you
0:44:09can just read the journal and and be
0:44:11satisfied with that but honestly my
0:44:13obviously we did in the book you flush
0:44:15it out way more and it would be you
0:44:16could make a good book out of this but
0:44:17just given just given the amount of
0:44:20texts in the stories here with maybe a
0:44:21little bit of connecting stuff I feel
0:44:23like walking through the house finding
0:44:24things yourself doing the stuff in that
0:44:26atmosphere heighten the experience my
0:44:28way above just attacks and now you two
0:44:30must fight to the death and I just felt
0:44:32like I wasn't doing anything is the
0:44:34problem is i was picking up milk cartons
0:44:36and turning them over and I was
0:44:37basically just killing time until I
0:44:39found the next blotted a piece of paper
0:44:41that was story relevant and so there
0:44:44wasn't enough to suck me in and and
0:44:46maybe it's just down to having spent too
0:44:47much time playing haunted house games or
0:44:50games where I'm exploring house and
0:44:51actually manipulating items in
0:44:53and really feeling like I'm part of the
0:44:55story as opposed to just watching
0:44:57through the eyes of the character who's
0:44:59doing all this stuff but it just it just
0:45:01never grabbed me but but your point your
0:45:04point is absolutely right i mean if it
0:45:05if if this game had pulled me in that
0:45:08way then i would say absolutely this is
0:45:10a far superior medium for this story
0:45:13than a book but for me it just didn't
0:45:15work
0:45:16pistols at dawn no actually you leech
0:45:19you just have to make a cassette
0:45:20its a mix tape mixtape tapes it on okay
0:45:24yeah it's gonna be alright girl stuff I
0:45:27hope you're cool with that job out there
0:45:29they're definitely weaknesses to the
0:45:30story in the way that like you don't
0:45:34want to see the strings and you do see
0:45:36them a little bit too much here and I
0:45:37feel for them because it is so
0:45:38incredibly that's what am i bringing
0:45:40journey and what makes journey so
0:45:41amazing at least in the first place for
0:45:43me is like you cannot see the strings
0:45:44and everything seemed to work out
0:45:45perfectly that's almost impossible to do
0:45:47and there's a little bit too much like
0:45:49if I had to change this game around i
0:45:50would say I fewer things that are
0:45:52pointless so you wouldn't be spending
0:45:54milk cartons for no reason and like it
0:45:56its I kind of know what they would have
0:45:58to change to make it better but the it
0:46:00when it comes down to the details like
0:46:01geez this is a really really hard
0:46:03problem and so it is extremely difficult
0:46:05to make this type of game so that works
0:46:07for everybody
0:46:08I think they did enough of it here where
0:46:09I'm going to give it a thumbs up in it
0:46:10and totally endorse the game in it and
0:46:12it worked for me but it doesn't reach
0:46:14you no guarantees level for me
0:46:15not even close but still recommended see
0:46:18and journey worked wonderfully for me
0:46:19and I think a lot of that was down to
0:46:21the fact that there were actually
0:46:22problems for you to solve in journey
0:46:24they were difficult problems and they
0:46:25were very unconventional and I think I
0:46:30complained a little bit in the journey
0:46:32episode about the fact that there wasn't
0:46:34enough difficulty for me really to to
0:46:36stretch the game out but it just the
0:46:40simple fact that i had to solve some
0:46:42sort of problem gave me such a an
0:46:44attachment to the character it really
0:46:46made me feel like I was guiding this guy
0:46:48or you know it going farther i actually
0:46:50am this guy is he's exploring this world
0:46:53and this there just wasn't anything in
0:46:54this game to do that for me but and I
0:46:56think you know I think different parts
0:46:57of games resonate with different people
0:46:59in different ways i mean i think some
0:47:00people really want that sense of kind of
0:47:02challenge and achievement and overcoming
0:47:05an obstacle
0:47:06you know a lot of games build off of
0:47:07that very heavily this game does not
0:47:09almost at all right i mean they're the
0:47:11puzzles in this gamer so trivial you
0:47:13might as well not called and puzzles but
0:47:15it's really strong in the story area
0:47:16which is you know other games are not or
0:47:18in other games would be more about the
0:47:20visuals and you know I think this game
0:47:21does pretty well but for visuals but
0:47:23it's clearly more about the story I mean
0:47:25these characters in gone home feel more
0:47:28real to me than any other video game i
0:47:30can remember that's one aspect of the
0:47:33game but we haven't talked about that is
0:47:34definitely true is that if you are for
0:47:36example like you know a kid who is gay
0:47:39who grew up closet didn't have to come
0:47:40out of your parents are like if you have
0:47:41actual personal residence with with this
0:47:44situation and also it's a it's a story
0:47:47that you don't often see in Games which
0:47:49I feel like this is like that's a lot of
0:47:50the extra attention this game is getting
0:47:51is because it's telling a story to
0:47:54people who normally don't have the
0:47:55stories told because in that space
0:47:56marines or detectives you know what i
0:47:58mean and that like that goes a long way
0:48:00towards you know giving this game a
0:48:02boost in that it's a story even if
0:48:05you're not even if you can't directly
0:48:06emphasize with the things that are
0:48:07happening because none of those things
0:48:08happened in your family or whatever it's
0:48:10maybe a story that you haven't played
0:48:11there before I've been the grizzled
0:48:13detective I've been the space marine I
0:48:15haven't been the daughter coming home
0:48:16from Europe you've been a little space
0:48:18detective
0:48:18yes I've been the gristle space that was
0:48:20only once and i've been i've been linked
0:48:22many many times i actually have been the
0:48:24confused lesbian though
0:48:25yes well it was College Steve yeah well
0:48:28we did like this but it sounds young
0:48:30I'm going to hit the pause button one
0:48:32more time to talk to you about our
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0:49:28let's uh let's move on and talk about
0:49:30brothers brothers a tale of two sons
0:49:33available on xbox and playstation and is
0:49:38this on pc to yes it is that's where i
0:49:40played it all right i played this on
0:49:43xbox actually came here seen did you
0:49:48have got like every console for a
0:49:50non-gamer i do I first yes I got every
0:49:53every last generation console now
0:49:56yes I am state-of-the-art from 2008
0:49:58Steve wow yeah i know it's pretty cool
0:50:01i'm gonna going to watch the x-files VHS
0:50:04is and make some mixtapes then but if
0:50:06you're talking you know you talk down
0:50:08your gamer credit but you got some men
0:50:10have no credit i have the boxes with all
0:50:12those games that I don't finish so that
0:50:14potential energy versus kinetic legs
0:50:17thank you thank you to the energy her
0:50:20yeah statements teasingly energy can
0:50:22never truly be destroyed by one relay
0:50:24the games I just never played violin
0:50:27playing games because the podcast that's
0:50:28my new that's my new traveling excuse so
0:50:30brothers uh from Star values about two
0:50:33brothers it's about brothers it's a tale
0:50:36of two sons they are the sons of their
0:50:37parents the same parents dust brothers
0:50:40you're not going to get me my opening
0:50:42statement refers to make anyone do you
0:50:44have an opening statement about this I
0:50:45yeah we need to find her off the full
0:50:47display board first John yeah no I don't
0:50:50think you need to fire it off but like I
0:50:51think this is a good way to frame this
0:50:52is all I will frame it then you guys
0:50:54will go nuts and i will pick up any
0:50:55scraps that you got at the end because
0:50:57as I said I thought gone home was more
0:50:58successful this and so the creators of
0:51:00this game are so very clearly fans of
0:51:03one of my favorite games of all time
0:51:05eco which I've been trying to get us
0:51:07successful and write both my third
0:51:10person adventure games with two main
0:51:11characters both of them don't require a
0:51:13lot of skill to play both we have an
0:51:14emphasis on cooperation and both of them
0:51:16emphasize the emotional impact / like
0:51:18fancy gameplayer puzzles like that and
0:51:22the danger of basing being heavily
0:51:25inspired by one of my hair games all
0:51:26times that i will constantly compare
0:51:27your game to one of my favorite games of
0:51:29all time
0:51:29and in the case of brothers i did that
0:51:32and found it lacking and I have a huge
0:51:34list of reasons that's the case but
0:51:36instead i will let you guys go and
0:51:37anything that you don't get i will pick
0:51:39up my first note just says eco plus lost
0:51:43vikings minus originality minus
0:51:45difficulty so I I've got a couple of
0:51:48things here first i should say that the
0:51:50premise here is that these brothers
0:51:51their father is ill mysteriously and
0:51:54they have to be set out to go across
0:51:56this world find a cure and the clever
0:52:00game mechanic that I think is the thing
0:52:03that makes this game
0:52:04the most notable and why people have
0:52:06talked about it is you control both
0:52:08brothers the left thumbstick controls
0:52:11the big brother and the right thumbstick
0:52:13controls the little brother and the left
0:52:14trigger is an action for the big brother
0:52:16in the left trigger right trigger is the
0:52:18action for the little brother I also say
0:52:20that my wife compared John compared this
0:52:23to eco while we were playing it
0:52:26it is very obvious because we got to the
0:52:28point where there's the word that where
0:52:30they meet the girl and they rescue her
0:52:31from from being sacrificed or executed
0:52:35or whatever it happens to be and and and
0:52:38then for several you know points in the
0:52:41story she comes along with the
0:52:42characters and at one point my wife
0:52:44exclaimed she's smart
0:52:47we it's not like that stupid girl in eco
0:52:49where you have to hold her hand and drag
0:52:50her around terrible just terrible
0:52:54I know so that there you go but uh so
0:52:58anyway yes so that so I I have thoughts
0:53:01about this too but I I'm gonna throw it
0:53:02out to the rest of the panel by the way
0:53:04we did you let your wife see the rest of
0:53:06the game and how that turns out with the
0:53:08girl
0:53:09oh yeah we like with journey we actually
0:53:12played this game kind of handing it off
0:53:15back and forth and the kids actually
0:53:17watched watched us as we played this
0:53:19game so all of it i'm curious because
0:53:21that is a little olive it takes it take
0:53:23to now the tone a little bit
0:53:26it does i play the beginning with my
0:53:28kids and then kept playing after they
0:53:29went to sleep and I said okay I'm not
0:53:30bringing the kids back into the skin on
0:53:32my kids are old enough now that it has
0:53:33today was my real your seven-year-old
0:53:36son enjoyed it
0:53:37yeah if they don't find out about
0:53:39spiders cities in your house and find
0:53:41out of metal ok ok but I I what's that
0:53:43sound I hear coming for the distance
0:53:44it's all know the spoiler horn again
0:53:52alright so we should we should spoil it
0:53:54all we like now
0:53:55alright so i haven't played ego alright
0:53:57so i'll just come out there today then
0:53:58everyone playstation alright you're off
0:54:00the podcast your help you're a terrorist
0:54:02podcast is over and I can lend you one
0:54:04I'm totally cool with that and so I
0:54:07really really like yeah I'm for my
0:54:09situation that I forgot earlier with the
0:54:11game i've not played it by I i know of
0:54:13it so I but i will say I I experienced
0:54:16this game in a in a vacuum not having
0:54:18compared it to that game in the game and
0:54:20John Cena killing again that is good is
0:54:22to remind me the most of his journey of
0:54:24attorney was absolutely is very yeah
0:54:26there it's not the same game it's very
0:54:28much not the same an attorney but there
0:54:30are many things in it that are
0:54:30reminiscent of journey
0:54:32although apparently now every game that
0:54:33aspires to art has to have that swelling
0:54:36string music that's what that's one of
0:54:38the reasons why I thought of a really
0:54:39want this to be journey to ferment it
0:54:41was the I mean again I play a lot of
0:54:43other games that are much more involved
0:54:45and so something where the control
0:54:48scheme is so simple as to be you know
0:54:49basically transparent right like once
0:54:52you know move do things right like
0:54:54everything else is contained within the
0:54:55world of the game which is basically the
0:54:58exact same thing for journey right like
0:54:59once you know how do we like you know
0:55:00seeing you know jumper wouldn't move
0:55:03around like that is all you need to know
0:55:05about what buttons to press
0:55:07everything else is really about what you
0:55:09do inside the game world to have an
0:55:11effect inside the game world and i
0:55:13thought the mechanic was really clever
0:55:14like I mean it took some time to get
0:55:16used to
0:55:17I was constantly like I had to make sure
0:55:18that I tried to keep the big brother
0:55:20growing on the laughing over the right
0:55:22otherwise like ok they're running your
0:55:24direction was going on and I got pretty
0:55:26like I got to into like the second
0:55:28section the game before dying which was
0:55:31which was good because i was like maybe
0:55:32you can't really die in this game and I
0:55:34was like well how do youhow did you died
0:55:36and they've got lots of stuff determine
0:55:38if you died there they are big on the
0:55:40invisible walls in this game and not
0:55:41like oh yeah but there are some plates
0:55:43and the mind off kind of elevate the
0:55:45mind crush by rocks and there's there's
0:55:47a battleground
0:55:48yeah i'll actually had complaints about
0:55:50the control scheme i thought i thought
0:55:52it was too unwieldy with the two sticks
0:55:54and you know the thing with journey is
0:55:57it it it felt completely natural
0:56:00almost immediately it
0:56:01more it's more complicated injure and
0:56:03and this game I constantly felt like I
0:56:05was fighting a control scheme i never
0:56:07forgot that I was holding a control
0:56:08that's the whole point of getting on the
0:56:10whole point of the game is you are you
0:56:12have to be cooperating with yourself and
0:56:14you have to coordinate the action and
0:56:15there's the holder in Mexico against
0:56:17you've gotta coordinate these two it
0:56:19just it for something that aspires to be
0:56:21the kind of experience that journey was
0:56:23that's that's a big obstacle in the way
0:56:25and yet the second one is the insistence
0:56:26on using the analog triggers as as
0:56:30digital controls that just I mean I'm
0:56:32not sure what else you would use
0:56:33accepted wonder why students have their
0:56:35own problems but yeah if I to use the
0:56:38playstation controller i wouldn't have
0:56:39this problem but with the xbox this
0:56:41triggers they'll kill you every time ya
0:56:43know our climbing with yeah you have to
0:56:45do a lot of like catch release catch
0:56:47release and I could be annoying if you
0:56:48have to do against Ryland about me there
0:56:50but then again I do a lot of games that
0:56:51you like hold us down for the
0:56:53seven-year-old son had to take a lot of
0:56:54breaks yeah but i like that i mean the
0:56:59whole that was what made this game
0:57:01interesting to me from a gameplay
0:57:02standpoint was the fact that it was you
0:57:05know that was the the puzzle the puzzle
0:57:08was to do these different actions with
0:57:11the different characters and they had
0:57:13different interaction and they and
0:57:15different capabilities and and it
0:57:18manifested in a bunch of different ways
0:57:19he's gotta hop up here and then he can
0:57:21put down the rope and then the other guy
0:57:22can climb up or they some of them have
0:57:24to work together some of them may have
0:57:25to work in opposition
0:57:27there's the one where there's the dog
0:57:28that's running around ya gotta you gotta
0:57:31one has to distract the dog while the
0:57:33other one runs and then the other has to
0:57:34do it may have to move back and forth
0:57:36and I really like that it wasn't it
0:57:38wasn't easy and I like that I could do
0:57:41it not I could figure it out but it
0:57:43wasn't like I was just on Rails I was
0:57:45just walking through to the next thing
0:57:47that I had to think about right what the
0:57:49right but but it never did did you ever
0:57:51have to like think about it think about
0:57:53it that's was gonna compare yeah you go
0:57:54is because like eco has puzzles that you
0:57:56have to think about where is this game I
0:57:58always knew immediately what they wanted
0:58:00me to do and it was fairly easy to do
0:58:02that's what I'm saying there was a low
0:58:03skill Barry there's more but more
0:58:04coordination is required definitely like
0:58:06oh you're not just moving one guy around
0:58:08so that's why would say for non-gamers
0:58:10is probably high barrier but in terms of
0:58:11like boy I'm stuck in this puzzle can't
0:58:13figure out what to do that
0:58:14is much more likely to happen in the
0:58:16game like ego then then this one I felt
0:58:18like this in every situation I knew what
0:58:20they wanted me to do and executed it
0:58:21more or less on the first round I said
0:58:23I'd never die didn't think you could die
0:58:25oh thats see but there were you know I
0:58:26think there were times for me when I was
0:58:28like well i tried something that I
0:58:29realized like okay that's not the
0:58:31approach they want me to take but i
0:58:32thought was just like so the very early
0:58:34on there's a part where you have the
0:58:35drawbridge in the treadmill and you have
0:58:36to light so you can you realize oh one
0:58:38of the brothers can get the treadmill
0:58:39and lower it and the other guy could go
0:58:41across and how to get both of them
0:58:42across so i tried for a while I start
0:58:44piling sheep hit escape before heavy
0:58:46enough to keep the comforts down which
0:58:48incidentally is hilarious because
0:58:49they're now yeah I did that to you
0:58:51because it's just because it's fun yeah
0:58:53I know I spent some time playing but i
0:58:55did that because I thought it was a
0:58:56valid solution and finally realize i'm
0:58:58going to put the ship and refine my son
0:59:00greatly enjoyed dropping them into the
0:59:01wall yesterday really from the wonderful
0:59:03i love that because then they come
0:59:04another one this like lively comes out
0:59:06of the little farmhouse is he like your
0:59:08shit that comes out of the shed
0:59:10yeah they should have they should have a
0:59:11a spin-off game just with the Sheep
0:59:13Michael yeah I like I do like all the
0:59:16animals in this game but I don't know it
0:59:19was for me there were things i'm not
0:59:22saying required like a super long time
0:59:24and they're definitely puzzles and games
0:59:25that have our way harder than this but
0:59:26it was that nice balance of being
0:59:28something that was not so hard you're
0:59:30like banging your head against the wall
0:59:31trying to figure out what was not so
0:59:33easy that you're just like I'm walking
0:59:35through it
0:59:35I thought I I thought I hit that sweet
0:59:37spot really nicely I mean I feel like
0:59:38their other games that a lot more
0:59:39challenging and even games I like where
0:59:42I hid the point of frustration that I
0:59:44stopped right and hopefully i go back
0:59:46the next day or you know later that week
0:59:48there's some games were frustrated
0:59:49enough it's like i'm done with that game
0:59:51for a long time if not forever
0:59:53yeah and this never had that problem
0:59:54i'll admit it's pretty you know the
0:59:56challenges are pretty simple pretty soft
0:59:58but I felt like that they were they were
0:59:58but I felt like that they were they were
1:00:00that really nice sweet spot where you
1:00:01kept moving forward right you felt like
1:00:02you could figure this out and keep going
1:00:04and I never felt like at this game i'm
1:00:07not playing anymore right you know this
1:00:08is stupid i can't figure out what I'm
1:00:10supposed to do just clever enough for
1:00:11like oh yes i got it to hold my interest
1:00:13in keeping I don't think there are any
1:00:15challenging puzzles in this game of the
1:00:17control scheme is a little bit
1:00:19challenging but they're challenging
1:00:20puzzles and this is not to say that I
1:00:21think challenge is essential for a good
1:00:23game because journey has like zero
1:00:24challenge it's like one of my favorite
1:00:26games of all time so you don't need
1:00:27challenge to make a google at least he
1:00:29has more challenge than this by a large
1:00:31though
1:00:31well I mean I don't anyway though the
1:00:33whole point is I don't think you need
1:00:34challenge make a good game but here's
1:00:36what you do need you need you need a lot
1:00:39so you need something else to overcome
1:00:41any kind of gameplay that is as brutally
1:00:43Leonard linear as brothers is like you
1:00:45need like journey level of awesomeness
1:00:46to make you forget that you're being led
1:00:48down a single long car door with
1:00:49invisible walls also yes as a music
1:00:51atmosphere you need like emotions you
1:00:53need some intellectual engagement need
1:00:55something right and eco is less linear
1:00:58then brothers our journey because you
1:00:59can kind of wander all over and do all
1:01:00this stuff but it really is kind of
1:01:02linear a bit but there's more Challenge
1:01:04mentally to the puzzles and the
1:01:06free-roaming nature like let's fix you
1:01:07out into making you think that you're
1:01:09not you're not being like that i mean
1:01:10i-i don't I mean I played eco I don't I
1:01:13mean to me they're different games I
1:01:14don't I mean the scope of them is
1:01:17completely different ego is a much
1:01:18larger cargo but the whole thing makes
1:01:20you feel like you're not into Carter
1:01:21brothers were just killing me with the
1:01:23linearity because it was at one point I
1:01:24climbed up a wall for the for the 10,000
1:01:27time and once again that I know how to
1:01:28climb also to people's thank you don't
1:01:30need the same challenge million times
1:01:31and I realized it was like a baby
1:01:33penguin rescuing side mission that I had
1:01:35missed somehow I got gonna go back down
1:01:37the wall and do that and it wouldn't let
1:01:38me go back down the wall to do it you
1:01:39can still see the side mission that I
1:01:41had failed to do like not only with
1:01:42linear it was like slamming doors behind
1:01:44me as i went down this invisible wall
1:01:46Carter and if you're not going to have
1:01:48challenging puzzles and you're gonna
1:01:50have linear gameplay like you can't you
1:01:52need to pick something else there like a
1:01:54bit journey has zero challenge it's
1:01:56incredibly linear and at no point did I
1:01:58ever get that feeling of like I'm
1:02:00Brailled in I I think you're mistaken
1:02:01journey has challenged to it challenges
1:02:04not the big thing it but journey
1:02:05certainly challenging their stuff where
1:02:07you feel threatened in journey you have
1:02:08to overcome obstacles i think all games
1:02:10have an element
1:02:11Challenge otherwise you'd be completely
1:02:12bored yeah I guess you do feel you do
1:02:14feel a sense of threat but like
1:02:15inherently general use
1:02:17you literally can't die though I mean
1:02:18now you know he's not the only offset
1:02:21back yet not all but that's another
1:02:22thing about journey as you you never
1:02:24really thought that you couldn't die in
1:02:26that game i remembered that the flying a
1:02:29dragon creature whatever taking me out
1:02:31and thinking oh that finally has decided
1:02:33to kill me and that's in fact that's the
1:02:35ridiculous thing about games that death
1:02:37is overused as the single punishment
1:02:39there's lots of ways you can get
1:02:40punished you can get things taken away
1:02:41and get pushback video is your scholarly
1:02:43get you know yet our death is a cop-out
1:02:46right i mean that's like you know that
1:02:48will because it's the one thing that
1:02:49breaks the narrative it doesn't mean
1:02:50that you write on the pit but guess what
1:02:52i want that here right enter a couple
1:02:54games where they do funny things with
1:02:56time travel or no the prince of persia
1:02:57games are actually noteworthy because
1:02:59it's like being narrated you follow the
1:03:00pit and the narrator says that's not
1:03:02what happened and you jump back but yeah
1:03:04but no death is overused as the like
1:03:06this is how you fall back and that's I
1:03:08mean I think during is a classic example
1:03:10you can have challenged without death
1:03:12sure you can and that and that happens
1:03:14in other games i'm a big fan of you know
1:03:15graphic adventure games and things like
1:03:16that were there is challenging their
1:03:18obstacles but you don't die you're even
1:03:21you know something really great games
1:03:22for you can't get into an irrevocable
1:03:23situation right now that's what I was
1:03:25thinking was getting stuck like that you
1:03:26think you talking about for we like I
1:03:28don't know what to do next in this game
1:03:29and I'm frustrated you know like that's
1:03:31what I talked about like in terms of
1:03:32challenge like where you're where you
1:03:33have to put the controller down and say
1:03:34I forget it i'm going to come back this
1:03:36because you're frustrated because of a
1:03:37mechanic or because you have no idea
1:03:39what to do and that never happens in
1:03:41journey which is a great thing about it
1:03:42is you never you never will get stuck
1:03:44unless you really don't have the
1:03:45coordination just move the guy along and
1:03:47it doesn't happen in this game either
1:03:48but this game is lacking all the stuff
1:03:51that journey has to make it so that
1:03:52you're willing to walk down a big long
1:03:53corridor with invisible walls and not
1:03:55feel like you're so yeah I don't know
1:03:57that I agree with that either because i
1:03:59don't like the thing that the for me
1:04:00made this game was the relationship
1:04:02between the brothers
1:04:03I mean and again really touching and
1:04:05it's not it's not like on homework like
1:04:07all right we're going to tell you
1:04:08everything about this you know the all
1:04:10the details right vector the language
1:04:11that they speak is basically impossible
1:04:13to understand right you can kind of pick
1:04:15up stuff from context but you're never
1:04:17gonna understand the full import of what
1:04:18I also i mean the only thing I knew
1:04:20going into this game was
1:04:21have been compared to journey and at
1:04:22first I was kind of skeptical as like
1:04:24this is not the scale and scope of
1:04:25journey i really like journey but i
1:04:27think this game had a really great slow
1:04:28build i mean i really liked the way you
1:04:30saw the relationship between the between
1:04:32the brothers you know the stuff about
1:04:33their two different parents even as the
1:04:35way it expanded from you know your first
1:04:37kind of puzzles are like there's a jerk
1:04:39with a stick who won't let you get past
1:04:41a you know a bridge and you have to go
1:04:42around two later you know your kind of
1:04:45your running across this field and their
1:04:46dogs chasing you to then there are these
1:04:48things they're like actually kind of
1:04:49foreign and hostile and creepy and weird
1:04:51and otherworldly and it's like it does
1:04:53actually fire one of the brothers in a
1:04:54in a catapult that one yeah you know is
1:04:56this actually happening or you know is
1:04:58this real or is this the the imagination
1:05:00of the younger brother has become the
1:05:02way that is commanded to me was was
1:05:04amazing i mean when the first our first
1:05:06maybe half hours like man people
1:05:08comparing this journey there you know I
1:05:10don't know I'm not with them but then at
1:05:11the end of music swells and suddenly
1:05:13it's snowy and I'm like oh yeah okay and
1:05:16really are trying to be any now really
1:05:18talked about the end yet but you know
1:05:20you get to the end and one of the
1:05:22brothers dies and it's like well as the
1:05:24game to be over now how you know
1:05:26basically that last I don't 20-25
1:05:28minutes where you're playing as little
1:05:30surviving brother i kept being how much
1:05:32longer can this game be because this
1:05:34feels weird and wrong and like that
1:05:35sounds like somebody's having another
1:05:37game that I played before but that's the
1:05:39one to one truly moving thing in the
1:05:41story for me for me that the the the
1:05:44brothers in their relationship was all
1:05:45just so generic they didn't do much for
1:05:47me
1:05:48the older brothers the serious one and a
1:05:49little one of those buckets of water on
1:05:51sleeping people okay I get that and then
1:05:54at the end when the younger brother is
1:05:57on his own and the thing that you have
1:05:58to do in order to push him forward and
1:06:01and and you know for its kind of forget
1:06:03his fear of of water and jump up the
1:06:06cliff that he doesn't think he's talking
1:06:08to get up to is to use the other
1:06:09brothers button
1:06:10yes that was little I can one very cool
1:06:13moving thing I thought is that really
1:06:16worked well in the story which only
1:06:17works after training you write three
1:06:20actually and and3 that was brilliant and
1:06:22today even thinking about now I get
1:06:23chills i may have played too many games
1:06:25to have telegraphed that but I give them
1:06:27props hiring i don't know i don't like a
1:06:29lot of games you know how you did I ice
1:06:32kinda saw that come every like maybe I
1:06:34sound like I'm
1:06:34already here and I'm not saying I didn't
1:06:36like this game because like that's I
1:06:37don't want people to know I didn't like
1:06:38that like you should totally buy this
1:06:39and play this game like it's a great
1:06:41game to my players just the only reason
1:06:43I have all these huge list of negatives
1:06:44that we really good for you it's because
1:06:46that because i'm comparing at the eco
1:06:48and you should also kinda yeah you
1:06:50should also play journey you should also
1:06:51play you know shadows of the Colossus
1:06:53these are all games you should play but
1:06:54brothers is a great game
1:06:55I mean you mentioned eco and getting to
1:06:58that moment where you where you get in
1:07:00some games we get frustrated and I gotta
1:07:02come back later i gotta put it down one
1:07:04of the things that I appreciate about
1:07:04this game and that is is that I never
1:07:08got to that point I had to sometimes sit
1:07:10there and think okay where do i want to
1:07:12go here but it didn't take too long and
1:07:14I'd I got to be honest I don't like it
1:07:17if a game makes me so frustrated that i
1:07:20have to turn it off and come back
1:07:21another day a bunch of times so now I
1:07:23nobody likes it nobody likes and it's a
1:07:25balance of like when does that happen to
1:07:26you you know I mean like it if some game
1:07:29some people are that frustrated by
1:07:31journey and that games are a game is no
1:07:33good for them so everything has to be
1:07:34targeted a certain level of
1:07:35understanding it from from my experience
1:07:37this game had no challenge that's not
1:07:39and I said it's not a bad thing journey
1:07:40had zero challenge for me as well in
1:07:42terms of like not understanding what to
1:07:43do I always understood what to do and I
1:07:45could execute it reasonably well and
1:07:46that's fine you can still have a great
1:07:48game like that but you need other things
1:07:50to offset it at least for me well
1:07:51there's different elements of challenge
1:07:52to right there's the the mental
1:07:54challenge of trying to figure out what's
1:07:55the how do I solve this puzzle or where
1:07:57I go next what do I do and there's games
1:07:59that have like I got frustrated with
1:08:00game earlier this week that was playing
1:08:01because it was too much of a like there
1:08:03was a reaction challenge where it's like
1:08:04all right I'm just not fast enough and
1:08:06we're aiming well enough to to defeat
1:08:09this boss it's like and that I just got
1:08:10so frustrated quicktime event
1:08:12yeah like oh my god but you had 26 times
1:08:14and it keeps resetting me back and I
1:08:15have to go through this part that I have
1:08:17gotten good at but I got stuck at the
1:08:18second part it's just like that to me is
1:08:20just so annoying that i'm going to put
1:08:22that game down but like there are a
1:08:24couple things with brothers work out
1:08:25like I mean that i did spend a long time
1:08:27on the one puzzle the first time that
1:08:29you you tied a rope to each other and
1:08:31you do the swinging puzzle like that
1:08:33took me a little bit of time like to
1:08:35just figure out like all right I got up
1:08:36here with the Rope okay how do I get out
1:08:37there and once I did figure out like
1:08:39okay all right you know i I've mastered
1:08:40that but like it is interesting how you
1:08:43know there are moments that are
1:08:44challenging without necessarily being
1:08:46like it's not sure really challenged in
1:08:47there
1:08:48even their kind of challenges you can
1:08:49kind of read her kind of there on the
1:08:51side that you can do if you want I mean
1:08:53for me I you know I was playing on the
1:08:55xbox and achievements the pop-up when
1:08:57you do things and brothers was
1:08:58interesting in that all the achievements
1:09:00were for things that were kind of off
1:09:01the beaten path and like I found the
1:09:03first one of those and then it's like
1:09:05you know a you know I like getting
1:09:07achievements because I got no challenge
1:09:09to me i want i got i got nine out of 12
1:09:12the first time through and I went Wow
1:09:14I have achievements turned off when i'm
1:09:16in game because of all that concerned
1:09:18but I think I like that like I mean and
1:09:20mainly because i liked in this game you
1:09:22know you didn't need to get any of them
1:09:24but they were like letting you know that
1:09:26there were these little things off the
1:09:27path that you could find you can explore
1:09:29so as i was playing brothers it was like
1:09:30I was always looking for what's all the
1:09:32little side quest i want it i want to
1:09:34experience all the parts of the game
1:09:35that they designed right and i missed
1:09:37three out of 12 on the first playthrough
1:09:39and i went back and found this because
1:09:40it's like I want to see all the little
1:09:42side passages of this game because they
1:09:44were all extremely cute like the funny
1:09:46little interest or not no or not it is
1:09:48well yeah it turns out there's also like
1:09:50you know there's this how you feel about
1:09:51hands and said you'd so Dan mentioned
1:09:54gameplay mechanics and I you know I it
1:09:57wasn't hard to do
1:10:00there's a mechanic where the two
1:10:01brothers have to grasp this this thing
1:10:04and like they need to move it forward
1:10:05and and then and then move it left and
1:10:08there are a couple of able to drag a
1:10:09piece of wood right there are a bunch of
1:10:12things like that that i enjoyed just the
1:10:15fact that oh I've gotta you know i'm
1:10:17going to move them independently or I've
1:10:18got a pivot one forward and one back it
1:10:20was not particularly complicated but I
1:10:22there was it kind of a joy in 10 this is
1:10:26different i haven't done something like
1:10:27this and that was weirdly satisfying
1:10:28also that you had figured it out right
1:10:30like the beginning you first have to
1:10:32pick up the wheelbarrow with your dad in
1:10:33it's like all right go away i can push
1:10:35with both the guys alright i'm getting
1:10:37this you know and then the part where
1:10:39it's like there's you have to navigate
1:10:40like the pipe through like a little bit
1:10:41made to like jam one of the graves and I
1:10:44was like oh I can do this very smoothly
1:10:45now like you know have been practiced
1:10:47this for a while like there is a sense
1:10:48of achievement there and it is well
1:10:50there's no stupid tutorial mode right
1:10:51it's like going to start senior year you
1:10:53know your you have to figure out press
1:10:55this button press this button
1:10:56alright that's what you need to know
1:10:57John has has played games for probably
1:11:00several hundred
1:11:01red times longer than I have in total
1:11:03game time if not thousand but when i get
1:11:07at the end of the game when the young
1:11:09brother is at the water that experience
1:11:13was really good because and so my wife
1:11:17is watching this and and she's already
1:11:20pretty outraged at the fact that the big
1:11:22brother had died because she's like what
1:11:24the hell what the hell was that this is
1:11:26actually I what about the slow sequence
1:11:27where you had to bury him how God is not
1:11:30a man not a man yeah she's like what
1:11:33what is this game
1:11:34it seemed a little curl press x to dig
1:11:36it to dig a shallow grave that happens
1:11:38to me because I ice set the game aside
1:11:41for a while and i came back to it and
1:11:42and bren came in and I let me show you
1:11:45this game I've been playing and I came
1:11:47right back into the part with where she
1:11:48turns into a specter it was like all
1:11:50right I totally ruin this game for your
1:11:52sorry and then she's watching me as I'm
1:11:54like Derek my brother like you
1:11:56I'm so sorry I'm proud of you on the
1:11:59plus side they don't make you dig the
1:12:00hole they have continued my drag the
1:12:02body in and cover it up
1:12:04they just make you dump the dirt on your
1:12:05brother's lifeless course sobbing the
1:12:07whole wage used to get off joe pesci I'm
1:12:10fine i think the whole with this first
1:12:12hole I dug yeah so so but some say that
1:12:15the water i'm back that the Griffin foul
1:12:18creature has brought me back to home and
1:12:20i'm i'm at the water and I i I'm
1:12:23thinking okay how what's what's the
1:12:25solution here i run i trigger i run i go
1:12:27over here too i climb and nothing is
1:12:29working and so you know that's 30
1:12:32seconds or not and then I i'm looking at
1:12:34it and then I think oh yeah right i need
1:12:38to i I need to use the brothers controls
1:12:41like I would have done before and you
1:12:43press the trigger and you hear the
1:12:45brother and the boy ventures often too
1:12:47even though he's afraid of the water and
1:12:49he can't swim to get across and that
1:12:52moment for me was really affecting even
1:12:55though I I to roll my eyes at the
1:12:57brother dying and being well this is
1:12:58very much manipulative but but that
1:13:01payoff I felt like was really powerful
1:13:03now my wife is sitting there watching
1:13:05and she just sees me start swimming and
1:13:07she gets to the end she's like well that
1:13:09was really lame and I said no no I do
1:13:11use the brothers consider another
1:13:12difference the difference between you
1:13:14having played the game
1:13:15and her watching the game is true thing
1:13:17about games because you were the one
1:13:18doing it not just after she had seen the
1:13:20earlier part of the games it's different
1:13:21when you are doing it and the thing you
1:13:23just have to earlier about like feeling
1:13:25good about having figured out of
1:13:26maneuver that's something that I i also
1:13:28mentioned in the journey podcast where
1:13:29you don't do much in journey just kind
1:13:32of like float around and fly and stuff
1:13:33but there's enough there's enough a
1:13:35variation in there that you feel like
1:13:37you by the end of the game you are
1:13:39pulling off moves with finesse and
1:13:40that's why talk about the final level
1:13:41and journey where you get to show
1:13:43Superman now I'm really good at this
1:13:45whole scar flying business and watch me
1:13:47show my stuff and that's your and that's
1:13:48why you you get the little park of like
1:13:50i have now learned how to navigate the
1:13:53wheelbarrow with two people and I can go
1:13:54up the cliff or whatever that the
1:13:56biggest fault i think for in brothers is
1:13:58that maybe they have you can do some of
1:13:59the same things too many times but maybe
1:14:01that's just because that's how many
1:14:02times more people need more repetition
1:14:05to master it whereas if you master the
1:14:06first time then the 17-time you're
1:14:08climbing up the walls like whatever but
1:14:10that you know that's that it that's what
1:14:13games are going for and I'm glad that
1:14:14you got an attitude even if I didn't in
1:14:16this particular game
1:14:17well i gotta to and I I'd I audibly was
1:14:19like you know when I figured it out i'm
1:14:20sitting there and I just you know
1:14:22oh my god like you know I had that
1:14:23moment of I know what are you doing here
1:14:25I know what I need to do and I was like
1:14:27you know that to me that payoff is worth
1:14:29it I know I i have that at the end of
1:14:30the game i was talking about like that
1:14:31the him saying he was satisfied like oh
1:14:33now I know how to swing on the ropes and
1:14:35like get along like that now the ending
1:14:37part it's definitely working i regard
1:14:39but I I do have my long litany of
1:14:40complaints and you guys you guys who
1:14:42chokes what if i get if i can quickly go
1:14:44through them and and uh yes please
1:14:48please move rapidly through the long
1:14:50with me I'll just be here nodding and
1:14:52and then at the end of what will try to
1:14:54say how good the game is to try to I'm
1:14:55gonna go get a drink go ahead job
1:14:57alright so world design I brothers and
1:15:02brothers this item
1:15:03yes brother yes brothers straight that's
1:15:05right herself medical and heads runs
1:15:07like straight-up medieval fantasy and
1:15:09the only possible to us is like a little
1:15:11bit of over saturated color and slightly
1:15:12cartoonish character proportions and eco
1:15:14like a and everything is compared with
1:15:16ego is like as the muted color palette
1:15:18thing which is totally also a trope that
1:15:20goes on there but i have to give the
1:15:23nautique in terms of being more
1:15:24distinctive like this look a little bit
1:15:25generic to me a lot of it has to do with
1:15:27the fact that uses unreal engine 3 which
1:15:28if you're a gamer you've seen a million
1:15:30times before like I you know I know what
1:15:33unreal engine games look like this looks
1:15:34like an unreal engine game which is fine
1:15:36and egos engine was novel an interesting
1:15:38night wasn't the unreal engine though it
1:15:39was the setting the setting was
1:15:41unbelievably generic yeah actually might
1:15:43be my seven-year-old son recognized all
1:15:45of the various tropes and and knew what
1:15:47to do with them without having to be
1:15:48told ya it didn't seem like it had like
1:15:50a big style message
1:15:52did he call the that the pretty girl
1:15:55that they saved from their horrible
1:15:56execution turned out to be a murderous
1:15:58spider lady now he didn't get to that
1:15:59part because his fingers fell off from
1:16:01the triggers that was actually for
1:16:02shadow which i thought was clever
1:16:03yeah it was it was very well fortunately
1:16:05the wall where the sacrificing their
1:16:07fighting off giant spiders and it's
1:16:08super creepy and the fact that she leaps
1:16:10like 800 yards the first time hearing
1:16:12like mean I wasn't marmol yeah that the
1:16:16language barrier thing again comparing
1:16:18with eco which also has characters that
1:16:19don't speak the language that you're
1:16:20speaking right and both have like a
1:16:22limited set of phrases that the players
1:16:24repeat you know the so similar in all
1:16:26these regards and in this particular
1:16:28thing I i found that you know in in
1:16:32brothers understanding the intent of the
1:16:34spoken words was more important to the
1:16:36gameplay and it was also more difficult
1:16:38for me to understand what they were
1:16:39saying like an eco you press the key to
1:16:42call someone and make some noise and the
1:16:43person comes you like that must be the
1:16:44calling noise but and brothers they have
1:16:46these long run subtitled dialogue
1:16:48sequences that it's like I'm I get the
1:16:50gist of what you're saying but if you're
1:16:52going to be talking that long with no
1:16:53sometimes I want to actually know what
1:16:54you're saying I felt like I was being
1:16:55left out of the experience of my own
1:16:57name
1:16:57well it's so meaningless was the
1:16:58conversation clearly that the music
1:17:00would swell at those points and drown
1:17:02out what the guy was saying at least on
1:17:04the pc version it was just like it was
1:17:06still too much talking 44 not really
1:17:08understanding what they're doing and a
1:17:10good example for me is like the very
1:17:11beginning of the game what is the goal
1:17:13of the game you know a journey like the
1:17:15throne mountain your face in eco is like
1:17:17old uh you know try to escape and
1:17:19brothers I kind of got the idea was like
1:17:21I do something to help save this guy who
1:17:23is your dad I assume right but it's like
1:17:25what am i what am I getting my looking
1:17:27for medicine i'm looking for magic am I
1:17:29going to find a person and bring your
1:17:30diagonal entry it's under control
1:17:32read the drive you all right now but it
1:17:35like it was it like what is that the
1:17:36world treating you
1:17:38your brother's the only ones in the
1:17:39world that don't know exactly where that
1:17:41tree is yeah there's a scroll which way
1:17:44to the other side of the world
1:17:45oh that's right over there there and I
1:17:46know like these are because they want
1:17:48you to part of his they want you to be
1:17:50to figure out from context which is kind
1:17:52of fun 4head is a language I don't know
1:17:53but I'm going to fear from context
1:17:54what's going on and that's fine it just
1:17:56felt like they did a little bit too much
1:17:58of leaving me out of the game that i was
1:17:59playing just a little bit too much just
1:18:01make it make it up use your imagination
1:18:03just maybe maybe that power was too
1:18:04challenging for me I think whatever we
1:18:06cover the gameplay thing with the baby
1:18:07penguin that does uh you know i mean it
1:18:09wasn't a challenge was essential the
1:18:11game but like a baby penguin linearity
1:18:13bothered me out of the two player
1:18:14experience obviously that's what this
1:18:16game is all about you know it's a
1:18:18different 2 player take on that you know
1:18:19then then journey or eco your journey
1:18:22the second player is another person
1:18:23which totally changes the equation makes
1:18:25it very and you don't need the second
1:18:26player but I think with the second place
1:18:27that's totally different and another
1:18:29human is way more interesting than AI
1:18:31and way more engaging you know that
1:18:33you're playing with an eco the other
1:18:34players AI which is the worst case
1:18:37that's like one long terrible escort
1:18:38mission and if you played lots of games
1:18:40you like I'll cut them i got it i'm
1:18:42gonna try to get this other thing is
1:18:44just about that as i recall
1:18:46yes but in the best case you become
1:18:48engaged that you are like protecting
1:18:51your little computer friend in the game
1:18:53and the computer friend in the game as a
1:18:54little bit more pliable than human print
1:18:56I think with with the two player
1:18:59experience the I mean I worked great for
1:19:02the gameplay but then the problem is
1:19:04like when you when you have a thing
1:19:05where you kill him and you feel like I'm
1:19:06being manipulated he gets killed off or
1:19:08whatever i do other things without 1i he
1:19:12dies and I'm like okay so is there
1:19:15something I could do to get the good
1:19:16ending where he doesn't die but that's
1:19:17my immediate thought right you don't
1:19:18have you after that happens I call and
1:19:21you shouldn't be really having that
1:19:22thought but like that that's what I'm
1:19:24thinking and the second one is I almost
1:19:28forgot the variable seen the pork barrel
1:19:30seen that redhead on the interactive
1:19:32burial seem like that is actually been
1:19:33done before as well which is fine i and
1:19:36i thought the the winter is a slight
1:19:38spoiler for the walking dead sorry but
1:19:40he you know that's the same type of
1:19:42interactive barriers in the walking that
1:19:43line everybody
1:19:44londa good and I think it's because that
1:19:47I mean maybe it's harder for your degree
1:19:51for a player that you were controlling
1:19:52or what am i doing my grieving for my
1:19:54left thumb like it's not quite the same
1:19:56as grieving for like grieving for
1:19:58another player character in the game or
1:20:00even another human player a mean it
1:20:02works because you're breathing for your
1:20:03brother but like at that point it's like
1:20:04okay well now the controls got a lot
1:20:06easier and like I mean is just a little
1:20:08thing to do but he had hard to control
1:20:11these my brother but my left hand has
1:20:12nothing to do now I could I could I have
1:20:15concluded for this podcast John does not
1:20:17have a brother nor has he ever met
1:20:18anyone with the Bible you how I do have
1:20:20a brother but like the best lighting is
1:20:22that guy is doomed
1:20:24I thought I thought I don't control them
1:20:26with my other thumb but I thought more
1:20:27than what i'm going to hope not
1:20:29how is your brother at pulling the legs
1:20:32off of giant spiders be good at that
1:20:34yeah I thought way more attached to the
1:20:37human beings and I play journey with and
1:20:40the AI player that I protected
1:20:42throughout eco than I did with his other
1:20:43player that I was controlling because I
1:20:45felt like I'm still alive like in just
1:20:47half of me is not innovating that worked
1:20:49in the later scenes where the character
1:20:50in the game was upset by that and like
1:20:52getting across the water and you know
1:20:53the dead mother and everything it kind
1:20:55of worked out but not i mean maybe it
1:20:58was just the way they paced the burial
1:20:59seen or whatever I just it it was
1:21:01missing something for me and I think
1:21:03what it was missing is because like the
1:21:04things that were good about it that you
1:21:06got to control players for the whole
1:21:07game worked against it when they killed
1:21:09one of them off because i felt like i
1:21:10was still like half alive you know I
1:21:12mean I mean I call that kind successful
1:21:13in some ways I mean like the you know I
1:21:16don't you mention think about the good
1:21:17ending and i that made me think of a
1:21:19mass effect just because that's another
1:21:21case where there are characters that can
1:21:23die permanently if you do the wrong
1:21:25thing and for me it was always i only
1:21:27played through those games once but I
1:21:29know like Jason tosses occasionally on
1:21:31the podcast is played through more times
1:21:33than I care to think about and he'll
1:21:35talk about like all the different
1:21:35endings I'm like but in my world
1:21:37this guy is dead like this character
1:21:39that would even occur to me to go back
1:21:41and like oh I should go back and replay
1:21:43it so that he remains alive no he's dead
1:21:45and that would be disrespecting his
1:21:46memory r.i.p left thumb
1:21:48yeah the ending at the ending of this
1:21:49one you know to completely spot you end
1:21:51up in a situation where the brothers
1:21:53dead
1:21:54the dad is alive and the mother died
1:21:55previously again
1:21:56and it's like is this a fair trade like
1:21:58if you had not given the father would
1:22:00have died but you're not your brother
1:22:01still alive right now because this is a
1:22:04factory condition
1:22:05it just seems like the funding also just
1:22:07to just to wrap things up nicely before
1:22:09the end credits the final scene is them
1:22:11now there are two gravestones out of the
1:22:12tree behind the house and the dad is
1:22:14sobbing uncontrollably later in the end
1:22:17always just like I wanted it hold it
1:22:19hold it in the distance you see the
1:22:21groupon thing flying by
1:22:23he's on his way back to get the older
1:22:24brother know and I hate that
1:22:26by the way I hate the fact that that's
1:22:28happened he's just going back to the
1:22:30tree to have some more cool leaves and
1:22:32spiderleg well he knows where there's an
1:22:34easy meal that's why he's headed back
1:22:36there i think i think the end of it for
1:22:37me i was turned around he was elected
1:22:38and for the rest of his life his father
1:22:39can never meet his eyes again and yeah
1:22:41like it kind of comes to that and I'm
1:22:43like wow this is way darker than I
1:22:44thought it was gonna be added by the end
1:22:46of this game when I was thinking to
1:22:47myself as well just another day in the
1:22:49grim blood so funny giant that offering
1:22:51yourself in a dreamworld the brothers
1:22:53I mean it's just like this place is that
1:22:55our man i do not want to live here
1:22:57you just need a music place that'll put
1:22:58you right out of it but just wait till
1:23:01the sequel brother at a loved one son
1:23:04and one very sad father now the fact the
1:23:07fact that the Griffin is flying back to
1:23:09get the older brother kinda ticked me
1:23:10off because I what I saw as as the
1:23:13obvious kind of a dark here is at the
1:23:16beginning the little brother is he's
1:23:18consumed with guilt for the death of his
1:23:20the drowning death of his mother and you
1:23:23know is spending his life grieving and
1:23:25what I was expecting to see at the end
1:23:27was as the father kind of falls apart
1:23:29the the younger brother having been
1:23:31strengthened by his experience with his
1:23:32older brother than you know kind of
1:23:34pulls his father out of it and they
1:23:35realize that you know there are things
1:23:37worth living for and they kind of move
1:23:38on with life and that that would have
1:23:40made some sense a little of the the
1:23:42older brother's death and i'd i would
1:23:44appreciate that ending a lot more than
1:23:46then the two possible endings we have
1:23:49here which is one everybody's dead and
1:23:51everybody sad half of them are dead and
1:23:53half of them yes I or something there's
1:23:57a happy ending that's about to happen
1:23:58with the groupon flying back and
1:23:59retrieving the brother who was buried in
1:24:01the dirt outside the tree of life and
1:24:03therefore is resurrected although
1:24:04probably slightly were made it comes
1:24:06back as a zombie in the next game you
1:24:08have to kill
1:24:08admit that cemetery brothers a tale of
1:24:11one son and one zombie but with three
1:24:15then get back together the mother
1:24:16suddenly rises from the sea and they
1:24:17have to fight her off
1:24:19yeah there was a moment when when you're
1:24:21in the ice the ice fields and the
1:24:22icebergs and all of that and again that
1:24:24was the way they have to row the boat is
1:24:26interesting is another interesting game
1:24:27mechanic where where there's mountains
1:24:29off in the distance and I can't wait to
1:24:30see if one of them had that beam of
1:24:32light coming out of it like journey it's
1:24:34just over there but I'll other like that
1:24:36i wanted to mention is i like how the
1:24:38like the trolls are used in this i found
1:24:40out that sort of tickled me that there's
1:24:41there's a patrol that you meet who is
1:24:43like totally terrifying except it turns
1:24:45out that he's really friendly and
1:24:46helpful and helps you get where you need
1:24:48to go
1:24:48I really like that then later there's a
1:24:50level where you have to release a troll
1:24:52from a cage by stealing a key from
1:24:54another troll at and at that point then
1:24:57you have to lock the the the troll
1:24:59captor in the cage and then you see that
1:25:02the troll that you've released is
1:25:04reunited with her you know beloved other
1:25:06troll and there's like this shrimp
1:25:08portion of the game yeah I didn't see
1:25:10that coming because when you first see
1:25:11the other girl here that zombies really
1:25:13bad what he said about yes I thought it
1:25:15would be good for kids like two people
1:25:16are hanging from trees and stuff maybe
1:25:19not so good for can maybe the end it
1:25:21gets a little later look about like it
1:25:24like the top totally it didn't
1:25:26it's a little bit too much easier pixie
1:25:29and it's more like a Grimm fairy tale
1:25:31yes actual script yet it's very totally
1:25:33at I think tied to the grimm fairy tales
1:25:35those were all nasty is how people are
1:25:38always dying left and right and that was
1:25:40considered a happy ending right i mean
1:25:41is the part for me when I got to the
1:25:43we're getting a giant's for me and at
1:25:46first I get anyone else having a giant
1:25:47ice
1:25:48wait a second i think it's when the
1:25:49first time isn't in the tower you go to
1:25:52the tower first well yeah in the towers
1:25:54the first time write like that my first
1:25:55thought was wait for it does it turn out
1:25:57that we're really small when everything
1:26:00related a blue twilight zone and then I
1:26:02had the Giants part where you're
1:26:04navigating through the battlefield and
1:26:05that was disturbing I mean there's the
1:26:06part where you have to like shoot the
1:26:08crossbow not the guy that came into the
1:26:10dead Giants night because Alice if thats
1:26:12that's something I haven't done in a
1:26:13game before i had not caused the giant
1:26:15axe to fall to chop off someone's leg so
1:26:17I can pass through the linear car door
1:26:19of a game it was pretty brutal
1:26:21I mean yeah that's surprise my kids
1:26:23about that was hilarious
1:26:24yes that's the thing is the hanging and
1:26:26the Giants getting chopped up that just
1:26:28goes right over their heads
1:26:29you're not leaving until you paddle they
1:26:30can a canoe through a waterfall of blood
1:26:33but that was hardly growth has been
1:26:35impersonating a monster the tone never
1:26:37really committed to like what when you
1:26:39when you cut yourself in blood and get
1:26:40on your brother shoulders like is that a
1:26:41slapstick comedy moment or is it
1:26:43horrifying because you're cutting you
1:26:44and your brother when God and scary you
1:26:46know a little bit like this one side
1:26:48like it starts off very light-hearted
1:26:50and you can go like harder than get dark
1:26:52or whatever but it's like light-hearted
1:26:53but then it gets like a dark but also
1:26:55kind of slapstick and never quite knew
1:26:57where it was going there just kind of
1:26:59teetering back and forth and then at the
1:27:00end he really wants to go for the gut
1:27:02punch and it's like wow it's like you
1:27:04have always liked was not know i mean it
1:27:05like that you're always one single tone
1:27:07I know but it's only a two-hour gate
1:27:10minute I i like the transition I thought
1:27:11it was cute the way it kind of like I
1:27:13mean stuff gets darker and scarier and
1:27:15and I thought my head was going out
1:27:17tonight that that was the point at which
1:27:18you know became interesting for me the
1:27:20whole troll and mind sequence was all I
1:27:22had been there done that and then that
1:27:24they're out there with the wolves and
1:27:25they're you know they run across the
1:27:27guys hanging himself and this is just
1:27:29got a little bit more going for that
1:27:31didn't have anyone not say it not say
1:27:32that here guy
1:27:34no I think he liked you not have to i
1:27:36know you don't have to you can just let
1:27:37it go years let him hang
1:27:39you never do that no I didn't do it
1:27:41right I say we blew right through there
1:27:43the people should play brothers I think
1:27:44it's worth playing maybe I think more
1:27:46than more than Steve I think it's you
1:27:47know you should play a game that's good
1:27:49no no I highly recommend people play it
1:27:51i think that the art was gorgeous
1:27:53although generic
1:27:54and in fact I thought it was nice that
1:27:57they placed benches at random areas just
1:27:59matches the benches the most emblematic
1:28:03thing about how this game is inspired by
1:28:06ego but fails to live up to that
1:28:07standard is they put the benches in so
1:28:09obviously as a direct homage to the
1:28:12benches and ego which you sit on with
1:28:13with your order to save you and they did
1:28:16it in such a way it like that
1:28:18okay we're gonna do this we love that in
1:28:19any code we're going to put them in our
1:28:20game but they made you hold down both
1:28:23triggers to stay on the bench the bench
1:28:25is supposed to be relaxing
1:28:27you can't make me tense both my fingers
1:28:28and hold my turn with them the whole
1:28:29time to stay on the benches they missed
1:28:31the entire point of the benches
1:28:33oh my god that drove him insane i was
1:28:35every time I saw every time I saw bench
1:28:38I got angry and Lee we don't know what's
1:28:40it what's it like being driven insane
1:28:41i'm not really sure but please play
1:28:44short drives I've never met John in
1:28:46person is there a thing that just
1:28:48constantly throbs on a4a yes I thought
1:28:51there is i'm all vain means all the way
1:28:54down sometimes it just blood squirts out
1:28:56of his eyes was talking I just couldn't
1:29:01i consider because i love it's like the
1:29:03typewriters and resident evil like it's
1:29:05supposed to be an interlude it's
1:29:06supposed to be the nice music plays and
1:29:08everybody's come and we take a break and
1:29:10are you just hold down both these
1:29:11triggers hard as you can the whole done
1:29:12otherwise you can't get the city can
1:29:14look at the nice scenery if you don't
1:29:15know the triggers for students you like
1:29:16all one of them the cameras pans back
1:29:18and you don't look at the scenery
1:29:19anymore
1:29:19I think you're holding your triggers too
1:29:21long yeah i think that that's out of the
1:29:23closet we're going to be a little
1:29:24lighter on the trigger finger
1:29:26Thank You retaining something else to
1:29:27let it out man
1:29:29are you there Steve it's me margaret I'm
1:29:34a little conflicted about the fact that
1:29:36I had to to make the one white bunny
1:29:38become a black body in order for the
1:29:39United that was a little distressing
1:29:41yeah
1:29:42nope you know that part didn't know what
1:29:44I had no 90 triangle slipped off the
1:29:47only thing I got no trophies it was
1:29:49blowing the giant horn I Carol sheep all
1:29:52the way to that thing to make the sheet
1:29:53black it's a little cheaper irresistible
1:29:58the sheep are the best part of the game
1:29:59but like no no the best part is when you
1:30:02fire your brother in a catapult that was
1:30:04good that is awesome i liked writing the
1:30:07glider because I did
1:30:07that section like seven that was that
1:30:10dialing not know you can hide I really
1:30:12and I didn't know maybe you can join
1:30:14that crafted many times many times I did
1:30:17not like the younger brother going whoa
1:30:19he was like bad flashbacks and yeah now
1:30:23you transmit is his whole voice could
1:30:26have gone completely out the window far
1:30:28as I'm concerned you talk a little bit
1:30:31about about things you play too many
1:30:32times that the glider i kinda liked and
1:30:36wish I could have done a little longer
1:30:38because i really enjoyed that mechanic
1:30:39of the the shimmying of the two guys on
1:30:41the glider to make it till let me tell
1:30:43you pick up far cry 3 or Assassin's
1:30:46Creed unity and railways come on a lot
1:30:49of time in a glider that I won't do it
1:30:51yeah I refuse I know those games are too
1:30:54long too long for just too long
1:30:56give me another so is this some gamers
1:30:58is this a new genre of game the
1:31:01three-hour video game a two-hour video
1:31:03game because if it is i really like it I
1:31:05the time two hours good video game is no
1:31:07yeah i think it is i mean i think that's
1:31:09basically the idea is not every game has
1:31:11to be 60 hours 60 bucks and some games
1:31:13are shorting some games are long as you
1:31:15know we can deliver games digitally and
1:31:17we can price the price them however we
1:31:19feel like it we have room for short
1:31:20stories and novels
1:31:21yes a game games have been getting
1:31:22shorter for years now because it's so
1:31:24much more expensive to create content
1:31:26for them unless your rockstar can spend
1:31:27200 million dollars on a game because
1:31:29you games used to be routinely 20 30 40
1:31:31hours easily and now it's like case with
1:31:33our budget we can make a 10-hour game
1:31:35when it first started happening people
1:31:36are like what a ripoff this is a
1:31:38sixty-dollar game and i finished in 10
1:31:39hours but you know but it costs so much
1:31:41money to do all this high res things
1:31:43with all the the 3d models with more you
1:31:45know polygons in them and everything and
1:31:48all the music that you have to do in the
1:31:49voice-acting it just became too
1:31:50expensive and i think this is the
1:31:51logical conclusion it's like all right
1:31:53well now that people accept that
1:31:55how about we condense down our best
1:31:56ideas into as long as long as they take
1:31:59and our may be our best ideas only feel
1:32:01two hours and that's great because now
1:32:03the budget for the assets that we have
1:32:04to make all the voice-acting everything
1:32:05isn't that big
1:32:06and so here you go and I think people of
1:32:08critics and players have proven they
1:32:10like this type of game so i hope you see
1:32:12more of in the future because it's
1:32:13preferable to you know is the only other
1:32:15option 200 million dollar GTA or a
1:32:17really really crappy 10 our game I would
1:32:19not
1:32:20brother had this yeah i agree i I and as
1:32:22somebody who like i said i have that
1:32:24whole thing about I'm gonna buy this
1:32:25game and I'm gonna play it for I'm gonna
1:32:27play it for five or ten hours anyway
1:32:29that's that's the most remember what do
1:32:30so I would be happy to pay fifteen or
1:32:33twenty dollars for a three-hour game
1:32:35experience and then if I really really
1:32:37like it then I'll go back into
1:32:39achievements or things like that i mean
1:32:40i play journey through three or four
1:32:42times
1:32:42my daughter was playing journey this
1:32:43morning my wife's play journey all the
1:32:45way through a couple of times i'm a
1:32:47couple James away from getting the white
1:32:49robe which is the last thing I wanted to
1:32:50do in journey promote my daughter was
1:32:52playing it today and singing to do you
1:32:54know what a guy as they were going up
1:32:56the mountain and it was great it was you
1:32:58know do you see yourself playing
1:32:59brothers again
1:33:00uh no no no they're not going to play it
1:33:04that way back in and played it to get
1:33:06all the little side things and now i
1:33:07feel like i've experienced everything in
1:33:09that game so i don't think i need to do
1:33:11that i might read about the side things
1:33:13and if the side things sound interesting
1:33:15maybe i would go back but i think it's
1:33:16unlikely i'd actually rather play
1:33:18journey again but i mean i don't think
1:33:20i'll go back and play gone home again I
1:33:22think I got everything you know about
1:33:24that but you know yeah i won't i won't
1:33:26play gone home again i met i will
1:33:27probably have my son play through this
1:33:29when I think he's old enough to handle
1:33:30and appreciate it but I won't play
1:33:32through it again but interestingly i
1:33:33have played three co more than one time
1:33:35and not because I'm getting like you
1:33:37know I've done everything in that game a
1:33:39million times but just because it's kind
1:33:41of like watching a movie you've seen
1:33:42over and over again and like you've got
1:33:44home was just like a little bit better
1:33:46maybe that would be the experience many
1:33:47people do have that experience of like I
1:33:48just wanted I know exactly what's gonna
1:33:50happen this movie but i just want to
1:33:51watch it again because such a ride i
1:33:52play eco every couple of years over
1:33:55again just because i love the experience
1:33:56of playing the game even though I know
1:33:57everything that's going to happen i
1:33:58almost never play a narrative game again
1:34:01the second time I just it's in some ways
1:34:03it's so much so involving and so so much
1:34:06work to go through it that you know i
1:34:08just kind of find a kind of training and
1:34:10the idea of like starting over again is
1:34:12to me very very like oh god I don't
1:34:14think I can take that especially when I
1:34:16know where the plot goes even games were
1:34:18like mass effect where you can change
1:34:19the outcome I just effect mass effect
1:34:21it's a little bit longer and play well
1:34:23yeah I'm just saying I yeah a lot of
1:34:25those games i just have trouble going
1:34:26back to i mean the games that I play
1:34:28over and over again more games with like
1:34:29multiplayer stuff for you know it seems
1:34:31they're more like
1:34:32no sport games right perhaps but like
1:34:34you know prince of persia it's like all
1:34:35right I can try and like beat this right
1:34:37like it farther in this game than I have
1:34:39before what have you and i'm in the
1:34:41replay the replay camp for sure because
1:34:43i am in the midst of playing grim
1:34:45fandango for like the fifth time right
1:34:46now and just fantastic experience every
1:34:49single time that these two probably not
1:34:52so much
1:34:53you know I rarely have wanted to go back
1:34:55and reread are you there god it's me
1:34:57margaret either so yeah i reckin fourth
1:35:01grade nothing like 10 * well I do love
1:35:03that one
1:35:03if this had been more of in that vein I
1:35:05would probably have played twice already
1:35:08yeah i think the only games that I've
1:35:09replayed regularly the LucasArts
1:35:11adventure games like secret of monkey
1:35:12island group and grim fandango and
1:35:14things like that but yeah kind of like
1:35:16chase and I have enough games and
1:35:17haven't finished or haven't even got to
1:35:18start yet that you know multiplayer is
1:35:20really the only thing that gets me going
1:35:21back to it i still have to finish eco
1:35:23yeah you can start that over again it's
1:35:25only 10 hours it's not like this we shit
1:35:27shadow of the colossus to ego is the ego
1:35:30is the old version of journey like in
1:35:31terms of wow it's so short but it but
1:35:33now compared to the actual to our
1:35:35journey game I'll 10 hours that's like a
1:35:37full game shadow I i continue to think
1:35:39you'll never make it through but i wish
1:35:41i wish you luck
1:35:42it is long thanks thanks John it isn't
1:35:44it is not short and there is you will
1:35:46get frustrated and yeah which will be
1:35:49said but like it has a higher skill
1:35:50barrier than equals which is why i
1:35:52totally recommend equal to almost
1:35:53anybody and then shadow it's like with
1:35:55your gamer you should play but if you're
1:35:57not it's gonna burn you screw that huh
1:36:01you should let you should like the first
1:36:02the first level or 10 hours a boss
1:36:04fights will wear on the end
1:36:06yeah yeah that's yeah but will wear a
1:36:09non-gamer but the first one is worth
1:36:10experiencing and it's kind of a shame
1:36:11you can't hear myself and everyone at
1:36:13those that sounds like wearing on meat
1:36:14now I get sound too terrible to me at
1:36:16first i was like i love those you guys
1:36:18made the second game it's all boss
1:36:19fights I hate boss fights why would you
1:36:21ever and then I'd like okay I get it and
1:36:23it enjoyed it
1:36:24yeah it is its yeah alright I i
1:36:27recommend it
1:36:28hey before we go I want to ask everybody
1:36:31like we do with our book club we well I
1:36:34I ask you what are you reading but that
1:36:36would be very off topic for an episode
1:36:38developed video games so how about what
1:36:40are you playing Dan Morgan what are you
1:36:43playing you know I'm a standstill this
1:36:46Marco panelists Tony similar because the
1:36:48the beginning I just played or we're
1:36:50almost done with which we are playing
1:36:51multiplayer is a game called monaco
1:36:52which is super super fun and you should
1:36:54pick it up things on steam as well as
1:36:56experts like a multiplayer you know
1:36:59yeah I co-simulation you do like slots
1:37:02and baccarat less of that more of
1:37:04robbing things blind super fun game that
1:37:07like sort of follows a bunch of high
1:37:09strokes like you have different
1:37:09characters like a locksmith and the guy
1:37:11knocks people out and look out and
1:37:13they'll have special powers and the top
1:37:14down very stylized game but it's a lot
1:37:17of fun great multiplayer I mean one of
1:37:21the better multiplayer experiences I've
1:37:22had a really really long time and yeah I
1:37:25i highly recommend it it's not too long
1:37:27not super stylized to like that's the
1:37:29thing that yes even trying to figure out
1:37:32the total and that's that's interesting
1:37:35to it again we gamers if you played tons
1:37:37of games with people look like people
1:37:38like wow this does not look like games
1:37:40and once you figure it out it all has a
1:37:42language that kind of makes sense
1:37:44you see the matrix is like all that you
1:37:46stop seeing the big blocks you starting
1:37:47seeing people
1:37:49yeah that's cool i like it a lot Monica
1:37:52ok now we go to game i'm also playing it
1:37:56yeah Donny Tony Tony what else are you
1:37:59playing or anything
1:38:00um I've been playing Monica with gotta
1:38:02go that's great i just finished
1:38:05Assassin's Creed 3 which came out like a
1:38:07year ago but obviously I was just
1:38:09tearing through but it's an ok game i'm
1:38:11trying to clear through my
1:38:13embarrassingly large backlog so i can
1:38:14play the new Grand Theft Auto but i have
1:38:16two big backlog of my new games and I've
1:38:19been playing a bunch of games on my iPad
1:38:20recently the they came out with a new
1:38:22version of small world that is has
1:38:23multiplayer instead of just passing play
1:38:25and that's been playing that i have
1:38:27about seven or eight games a small world
1:38:28going at any time I don't know Sony what
1:38:30the hell
1:38:31smallworlds you know if there is a board
1:38:33game of that which I owned and play
1:38:34previously and the absolutely the iOS
1:38:37version of it is just great because it
1:38:38does the the score keeping for you and
1:38:40it you know it makes the rule
1:38:42ok simpler by enforcing them in a game
1:38:44state so you could as opposed to like
1:38:46setting up and playing small world would
1:38:47easily taken our this you can play a
1:38:49game and you know 15 minutes on or you
1:38:51know you play it one move a day over the
1:38:53course of multiple days so I'm playing a
1:38:55lot of that enjoy that
1:38:56that means all right Steve what are you
1:38:59playing can't believe it took you a year
1:39:01to get the assassins creed 3 tony you
1:39:04know I played all the other ones and I i
1:39:06started playing assassin's creed 3 and
1:39:07it did not grab me as much as the other
1:39:10ones there's some interesting stuff in
1:39:12there but it's a little bloated in terms
1:39:14of having all this stuff that you can do
1:39:16like you know you can be you know the
1:39:19famous assassin or you can spend a lot
1:39:21of time managing your like you know
1:39:22merchants there's a whole merchant
1:39:24minigame in here and I'm like why am I
1:39:25doing this but I need to do this to earn
1:39:27money so i can unlock the next thing and
1:39:28ya didn't grab me but you do get to cut
1:39:31out George Washington at the end so I
1:39:33like that
1:39:34well I just finished Ultima 5 that only
1:39:38took me 25 years
1:39:39yeah well I've never finished altima 4dr
1:39:43going to start with we're back in the
1:39:44day but I went to the Avatar i decided i
1:39:48have to finish all of them except
1:39:50perhaps for eight and 9i might not
1:39:53necessarily have to deal with us if they
1:39:55did not did not sound like they were
1:39:56true to the ultimate mythos or gameplay
1:39:59but at any rate finished altima five and
1:40:03right now since it's a the halloween
1:40:05season i finally got around to starting
1:40:08diablo 3 is whichever yeah it's Diablo
1:40:11slightly slightly dumped down from the
1:40:14previous feel like looking
1:40:15yeah whole lot of clicking hope you
1:40:17enjoy carpal tunnel and it looks nice
1:40:20that isolated monster is nice looking
1:40:22game although not as nice as i was
1:40:23expecting given well I mean it's still
1:40:25Diablo that's it that's true that's true
1:40:28so i'm having some fun with that at the
1:40:31same time I'm starting up another replay
1:40:34of Silent Hill 3 which is probably the
1:40:38scariest of of the Silent Hill games at
1:40:41least the ones that I've played which i
1:40:45highly recommend for anybody who really
1:40:47wants a good haunted town game not just
1:40:50a haunted house and yeah that's a good
1:40:53one
1:40:54probably fourth or fifth replay of that
1:40:56and it still scares the crap out of me
1:40:58every single time and as mentioned i'm
1:41:01also trucking through grim fandango
1:41:03again because you got team every once in
1:41:06awhile
1:41:06what is that a-what can you play that on
1:41:08right now
1:41:09that did they put that to modern systems
1:41:10now you gonna you got to do some dosbox
1:41:13foo i didn't even talk to have checked
1:41:16good old games to see if they've got a
1:41:18version of that but because a bunch of
1:41:20the classic LucasArts adventures they
1:41:21ported for some of them are even
1:41:22available for iOS like Secret of Monkey
1:41:24Island but not not all of them
1:41:27grim fandango is a great one it's
1:41:29fantastic probably the best adventure
1:41:31game i think all told you know story and
1:41:35puzzles and everything combined it's
1:41:36probably best that I've ever played and
1:41:38I played a lot i like that i think i
1:41:40like the little slightly wackier ones
1:41:42that like salmon max but Griffin it was
1:41:44a great game there's a lot of wackiness
1:41:45though in grim fandango probably more
1:41:47than I remember I remember
1:41:49yeah just having the guy who played not
1:41:52el guapo but his his sidekick who asks
1:41:55about the or who who says there's a
1:41:57plethora of pinatas without actually
1:41:59knowing what a plethora is as the main
1:42:01characters voice is is a huge boon is
1:42:04he's he's hilarious for anyone
1:42:07unfamiliar contango grim fandango is
1:42:08film noir meets Mexican Day of the Dead
1:42:11and you're basically a kind of a travel
1:42:15agent for the dead who get your affected
1:42:16your rewrite a murder mystery you know
1:42:19except it's an interesting murder
1:42:21mystery because everyone's dead
1:42:24I fantastic game if any of you have not
1:42:26played that i highly recommend you seek
1:42:28that out because it is literally other
1:42:30probably in my top three games ever
1:42:33yeah that's that's right didn't sell
1:42:35very well because it came out in 1998 at
1:42:37the same year that I starcraft and
1:42:39half-life game
1:42:39ok so Tim Schafer though you can't go
1:42:41wrong I'm Schaefer so if you're playing
1:42:45against even the video game draft yes we
1:42:48do some crazy like that video games are
1:42:50at early
1:42:51yeah you're sad and happy at the same
1:42:53time John circular what are you playing
1:42:56so I'm going through the HD remake of
1:42:59wind maker which is a game is the first
1:43:01of the game that I had my son play and
1:43:03he's played through it many many times i
1:43:04played through many many times I don't
1:43:06know if I would be interested in going
1:43:07through it again
1:43:08but they changed enough things that i
1:43:10mentioned the first of all looks looks
1:43:11really nice and it looks different than
1:43:13the original game not just because HD
1:43:16but because they change the graphics a
1:43:18little bit as well just a little bit and
1:43:19just it comes off differently but it
1:43:21does make me do it is appreciate how
1:43:23amazing the original games graphics
1:43:24cards i think now it's slightly less
1:43:26pure than it was but it's very pretty
1:43:28looking
1:43:29oh but I have complaints about this
1:43:31remake mostly having to do what you
1:43:33really get the control know you have
1:43:35time look nice
1:43:36I so wish I could play this game with
1:43:38the original controller because they be
1:43:40the gamepad and the pro controller both
1:43:43we have both of them we tried both of
1:43:45them either one of them comes close to
1:43:47the experience of playing the game with
1:43:48the original controller and the menu
1:43:50systems all god how many times I have to
1:43:51go to those menus like I guess it's nice
1:43:53to be using the touchpad all I can look
1:43:55at his touch or whatever but that I find
1:43:57that slower than the muscle memory of
1:43:59like going into the screen and picking
1:44:01an item and coming back out quickly
1:44:02continually frustrated but that's every
1:44:04time I had to to visit the the inventory
1:44:07stranger or deal with the control system
1:44:09it's frustrating but the game looks
1:44:10beautiful and they changed the game just
1:44:12enough to get rid of the super annoying
1:44:14things like we have a new sale that
1:44:15makes you go twice as fast and that
1:44:16makes that makes a lot of difference i
1:44:18was going to say I always felt like that
1:44:19game was padded with having a sale over
1:44:22here that's a light game I like the
1:44:24sailing and I I always thought they
1:44:25should have condensed into like in the
1:44:28middle of this game is one big massive
1:44:29sea journey that you feel a sense of
1:44:31accomplishment with after having
1:44:33completed but they didn't do that is
1:44:35that it's a bunch of series of small
1:44:36trips but I if you've never played the
1:44:38game I almost say that you should like
1:44:40get a gamecube or our game compatible we
1:44:43and play the original instead of the HD
1:44:45remake which I usually don't say about
1:44:46HD remakes but this year it does feel
1:44:49like a different game and it feels like
1:44:50a game made for people who played the
1:44:52first game was just fine i'm one of
1:44:54those people but that's the only
1:44:55reservation i would say is if you've
1:44:57never played the original game your i
1:44:59would say play the original games you
1:45:01have played the original game it's worth
1:45:02getting this to revisit it with a little
1:45:04twist
1:45:05where does that rank is as far as your
1:45:06favorite little games don't you think
1:45:08ah it if fluctuates because it and it is
1:45:12wrapped up a little bit of my sons and
1:45:13like the cars movie it's not my number
1:45:16one for sure at it's like fighting two
1:45:19and three maybe
1:45:21twilight princess keeps going up as i
1:45:23get older
1:45:25by the way that in the reference to HD
1:45:27remakes stay the hell away from the
1:45:29silent hill 2 and 3 HD ram not that you
1:45:32guys are going to rush out and buy him
1:45:33anything but wow did they do a
1:45:36screwed-up job on that poor yeah those
1:45:38are really like HD HD remix out there
1:45:40just like we got the game to run on a
1:45:42newer system basically and it turns out
1:45:44that they had I think some some early
1:45:46code before had fully been debugged but
1:45:48i think the biggest problem is that they
1:45:49that team silent when they made those
1:45:51games they really did some weird things
1:45:54with the hardware and I think that that
1:45:56one of the crucial components of the
1:45:57Silent Hill games is the fog
1:46:03man walked right into that one day they
1:46:10failed utterly to render the fog
1:46:12properly in these remakes and I think
1:46:14it's because they were doing something
1:46:15just really bizarre with the hardware to
1:46:17make it work properly and it was trying
1:46:20to make it work with the the playstation
1:46:223 graphics hardware just was beyond the
1:46:24Ken of these Porter's I think they had a
1:46:25lot of budget to work with anyway but
1:46:29yeah I mean that the game is pretty much
1:46:31completely ruined too far more than
1:46:33three but yeah if you feel that you want
1:46:36to get into the Silent Hill universe
1:46:38stay the hell away from the thinking
1:46:40high-def remakes because it actually
1:46:42they actually have destroyed the game
1:46:44it amazes me that you love these old
1:46:45games so much it seems that such a low
1:46:47tolerance for like the gameplay tropes
1:46:48my god gone home with Judy Blume book in
1:46:51the skate like you're such a grumpy old
1:46:52man with the gameplay trailer so you go
1:46:54back to play these games and they have
1:46:55so many creepy things number of the
1:46:57control scheme to like the the gameplay
1:46:59mechanics limited limited by the
1:47:00technology of the time but you're
1:47:02totally tolerant of those but any new
1:47:03game that comes out not taking that crap
1:47:05from this game
1:47:06well I can appreciate them for for
1:47:08having played them when they were out so
1:47:10you know I can forgive a game that's 15
1:47:12years old for playing like 15 year-old
1:47:14John you would never be critical of a
1:47:16movie where they went back and redid
1:47:18certain scenes and smooth you know
1:47:20improved graphics and stuff like that
1:47:22right now that's as i wrote I wrote a
1:47:25blog post about this why why do I hate
1:47:26the prequels and make this ball is
1:47:28different why don't the special editions
1:47:30and I'm don't hate remakes of video
1:47:32games and i wrote a whole blog post
1:47:33about it now if you're just joining us
1:47:35this is our for of hypercritical he's
1:47:38not so if you were to go to
1:47:39hypercritical taco and read my post
1:47:41about the winwaker remake you would
1:47:43learn all about it which we remake is
1:47:46that we can remember it for you
1:47:47wholesale that you got it i read that
1:47:49months but when the game was announced
1:47:50before the game actually came out and
1:47:52explains in detail why I think game
1:47:55remakes are more acceptable to me then
1:47:57going back and changing a movie
1:47:59alright the short answer is i can still
1:48:01play the original winwaker boom George
1:48:03Lucas Jason what are you playing right
1:48:05now
1:48:06dan I'm playing like some some
1:48:08battleship
1:48:09whenever quality stuff there maybe maybe
1:48:13words with friends stratego ya little
1:48:17minesweeper little solitaire some mario
1:48:21kart wii long little mancala go away
1:48:24thanks war
1:48:25yeah yeah so go fish you kids are
1:48:28playing journey that's good
1:48:30my kids are playing journey my family is
1:48:32playing playing small world out in the
1:48:33living room right now I saw it yeah
1:48:35happy to respond to Lauren on twitter
1:48:37about the yeah when you get the white
1:48:38robe Jason you have to at least go on
1:48:40one playthrough to help to help somebody
1:48:43as a white rose unit you have to fill
1:48:45that role it is obligated as you do that
1:48:48person entirely failed to appreciate
1:48:49that you have spent that long in the
1:48:51game and that's okay you can take your
1:48:53word get the white robe in like to game
1:48:55two to run through this is not right no
1:48:57you just have to go find a little lot of
1:48:58guys yeah yeah they glow
1:49:01yeah anyway I played these two games
1:49:03that we talked about and then and now
1:49:05and now we're done
1:49:06so I'd like to thank my panel for
1:49:08joining me on this adventure where I
1:49:09play video games which i almost never
1:49:11play and they play video games which
1:49:13they almost always seem to be playing
1:49:17smell have played it
1:49:19that's pretty much it i am a babe in the
1:49:21woods I represent the audience that's
1:49:23interested in video games but just
1:49:25doesn't know what to do or where to
1:49:27start
1:49:27that's me i have no idea what I'm doing
1:49:30is make it do worse than to start with
1:49:32the game like brothers
1:49:33yeah yeah absolutely alright so I'd like
1:49:37to thank my panelists for playing these
1:49:38games and for joining us tonight on the
1:49:41uncomfortable to steve lets a pleasure
1:49:43as always
1:49:44no the pleasure is all mine Jason it is
1:49:46actually I know back i know you're
1:49:48welcome Steve Johnson acusa thank you
1:49:52for being here
1:49:53I'm thinking about rerecording this
1:49:54podcast if i get a good ending
1:49:56yeah that's the one where Steve dies
1:49:59right
1:49:59it went wrong about our six for me i
1:50:02don't think i got a lot far back
1:50:03yeah Tony settle our thank you very much
1:50:06i'm still not clear how i get all the
1:50:08tivos for this
1:50:09yeah that's it you may pass through with
1:50:12only some of the trophies you may have
1:50:14to play this podcast again and a more'n
1:50:17thank you
1:50:18never again I mean good to be here a
1:50:21pleasure yourself
1:50:22what was that the ghost of dan more'n
1:50:24telling us know those ghostly sounds
1:50:27more like never again as much about sun
1:50:30cartoon basically and i'll be the father
1:50:32from brothers so I just crying
1:50:34intensively agreeing with Danny's dead
1:50:39and i could hear it boys
1:50:41let us remember this moment forever stop
1:50:45pressing the left trigger son you're
1:50:47making me cry
1:50:49ok and for all of us here at the
1:50:50uncomfortable thanks for joining us in
1:50:52our little conversation about video
1:50:53games we'll see you next time
1:51:06attention and comparable listeners if
1:51:11you stuck around this far in a couple of
1:51:13episodes we're gonna be discussing old
1:51:15movies again yes it's old movie club
1:51:17edition number two with Philip Michaels
1:51:19this time he's going to be showing his
1:51:21movies from 1952 there is a movie that
1:51:23didn't get nominated for an oscar for
1:51:26best picture
1:51:27singing in the rain classic a movie that
1:51:29did get nominated but didn't win
1:51:31high noon and then there's the winner to
1:51:34create a show on earth if you'd like to
1:51:35watch those movies in a couple of
1:51:37episodes you can hear us talking about
1:51:39from so stay tuned for that
1:51:41thanks for listening