Hypercritical

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► the world of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► so perfect that cannot be imploded by my [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► co-host John siracusa I'm Dan Benjamin [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► today is January 20th 2012 this is [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► episode number 51 just like area 51 [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► we've got two sponsors we want to thank [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► now and later while the program is going [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► vid me up calm the cool new video [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► publishing platform and stripe comm [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► full-stack payments tell more about them [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► again as we continue are you John [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► siracusa I'm doing just fine dan [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► Benjamin you're still in recovery from [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► our epic Goodfellas 5x5 at the movie [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► show that we recorded on Monday of this [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► week that didn't take too much out of me [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► it's not like the Empire Strikes Back [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► episode where ended at 3 a.m. so but we [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► didn't start I mean it there was no way [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► could've ended at 3 a.m. we started at [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► noon it could have really when do you [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► want to go frame-by-frame and there were [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► we were talking to each other on Twitter [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► saying oh man we forgot to talk about [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► this one scene we get to talk about this [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► other scene and it you know it was it [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► wound up being like a three-hour [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► 15-minute show and and somehow we still [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► managed to miss a lot of stuff yeah and [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► then people would tell us about things [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► that we didn't know at least I didn't [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► even know about as I imagine if we had [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► more knowledge than we would have gone [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► on even longer yeah Heather it's still [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► still so much that we didn't cover [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► I don't think we'll do a follow up I [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► don't think I mean I'm not saying we [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► won't have follow up I'm saying it's [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► likely we won't we'll never do a follow [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► up type of show but no but that one's [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► got to stand on its own yeah but if [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► you're wondering what we're talking [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► about you can go and listen I highly [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► recommend you do go and listen to this [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► movie show and that that is in the show [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► notes you can go to five by five dot TV [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► slash hypercritical slash 51 [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► and all of the links that we mentioned [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► during the course of this program [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► including self referential links such as [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► go listen to our Goodfellas episode [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► they're all going to be there in the [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► show notes and we want to say thanks to [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► help spot calm guys for making that [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► possible [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► best help desk software in the business [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► so this this show though was so much fun [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► to record it was great to see you not [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► bashing something for a change it's [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► thrilling well you know I had a little [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► Star Wars episodes in the Pixar bus I [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► was on the incomparable I'm not always [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► bashing things the audio was out there [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► that's what you're looking for and the [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► audience is listening yeah so what are [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► our topics gonna be for today what are [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► we talking about follow up you know I [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► was planning last week I was planning to [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► make this a shorter show I think these [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► shows are just getting out of control [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► and we need to I need to tighten it up [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► my personal goal that I wanted to try [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► for something shorter and okay it's kind [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► of like one of those would you say this [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► is a New Year's New Year's resolution no [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► no it's more like my analogies like a [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► sports analogy one of the I played [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► tennis as a younger man and in tennis or [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► any sport really funny sight say you're [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► like hitting the ball a little bit late [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► right right I think you drive like I [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► can't I can't stop hitting the ball late [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► like on my back and I keep it I keep [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► hitting the ball late well the way you [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► try to do that is you say alright we'll [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► try hitting it too early don't try to [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► hit it the right way because that's not [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► working try hitting it like way way way [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► too early make a mistake in the other [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► direction and sometimes it's even hard [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► to do that you like I'll show there's no [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► problem I'll fly now I'll now [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► intentionally hit it too early it'll go [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► way off to the right it'll just be a big [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► mess and you find you can't even do that [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► or maybe when you try to hit it way way [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► too early it you hit it exactly right [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► you know what I mean you got to [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► overcompensate so I said okay next show [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► I'm going to try to end the show like [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► way too early people gonna be like [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► that's it you're done that's all you [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► know just like very little follow-up one [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► short topic that I think will ask me [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► five minutes I'm going to in show early [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► and then with the hopes that then that [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► would would produce the shows on time [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► but of course I had forgotten about the [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► Apple event turning this week and so [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► that's kind of out the window but I [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► still I'm still going to try to tighten [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► things up going for because I do want I [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► do want to actually eventually have a [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► show where we go okay so that's all [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► you've got cheese [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► not even an hour like I want I want that [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► you're looking for that's your goal [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► that's your new year's resolution is to [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► have not a new year's resolution show [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► just because the past few shows this [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► year have been a little bit long and I [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► want to want to tighten up but [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► unfortunately with the news this week [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► that's not going to happen but we've got [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► plain old follow up to to go through [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► you're just a little guy can't remember [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► what show this was I think it was we [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► were talking about controllers and we [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► got off on his tangent about maths and [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► one of the follow-ups mm-hmm yeah I [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► think the last the last two episodes [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► have in one form or another we've talked [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► about maths yeah and I was trying to [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► come up with a word that encompasses all [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► of the english-speaking people who say [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► maths and I kind of narrowed it down to [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► saying that the people who live on those [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► islands to the north actually the [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► Northwest we were corrected by some [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► people of France what's the what's the [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► word for all those people and many many [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► many many people send me this Khan [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► Gregory Palmer gray cgp grey comm has a [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► video explaining all the different parts [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► United Kingdom and Ireland and England [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► and Scotland and the crown and all these [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► things and I had seen that video when it [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► was originally put out was at the [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► beginning of 2011 so I knew that video [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► existed but once you watch that video [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► you'll you I think you'll understand why [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► I didn't retain all the knowledge [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► contained in it because it is quite [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► dizzying and confusing and once you know [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► for the many people who sent me this [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► video in fact the man himself who made [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► this video sent it to me on Twitter [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► along with many other people and [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► immediately I saw someone respond to him [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► and say you know he got some wrong in [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► that video of yours so it's very [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► difficult no matter who you are even if [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► you've made what many people consider to [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► be the definitive humorous entertaining [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► comprehensive video and Venn diagram [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► explaining all these terms to people who [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► don't know them someone's always going [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► to complain about so I put them both in [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► the show notes if people want to learn [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► how confusing the different terminology [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► is they can go for it and the upshot was [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► that the only thing the consensus was [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► that if you're going to call those [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► people anything go with like British [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► British see anything in here I would [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► have thought that British would have [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► been like the wrong term that would have [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► been it is the wrong term in many cases [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► and people and a vocal minority did [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► complain about that but this [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► there's no perfect term and people [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► generally Wow that that was like the [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► least objectionable thing for foreigners [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► to do you will you will offend some [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► people apparent so I'm just gonna stay [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► away from that whole region of the world [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► this looks like a big mess oh yeah that [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► won't that doesn't offend anybody no I [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► love it when I watch a lot of like a [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► travel programs that I love it when they [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► have travel programs and they're in that [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► region of the world and they subtitle [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► people were speaking English that's when [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► you know you get into the good stuff [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► right then you know that even even [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► though we all share this common language [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► you'll never understand it this isn't [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► version of I feel insulted when they do [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► that I'm like come on I can follow this [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► accent you know I think it's not so much [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► accents like when some of their talking [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► like cockney rhyming slang or slumping [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► were I understand all the individual [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► words but I still have no idea what [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► they're saying oh yeah [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► a gaming follow up I mentioned something [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► about some vague memories I had from [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► gaming magazines kumusta read years ago [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► about the Dreamcast Microsoft being [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► involved with Sega for the Dreamcast [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► effort and then I said I thought they [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► wanted to run some version of Windows [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► and I don't know if it ever did so I'm [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► kinda shoulda got this person's first [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► name I always get the Twitter he'll II [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► macray am eh RKA why Twitter to tell me [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► that the Dreamcast did run Windows CE II [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► see was consumer electronics I think it [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► said before and the idea was that you [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► could run Windows that you can run [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► Sega's OS for your game and very very [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► very few people opted to run Windows I'm [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► assuming because it added extra overhead [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► and it wasn't what console developers [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► were used to this was long ago right so [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► yes the windows a version of Windows [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► actually did run on the Dreamcast and [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► there was a Microsoft collaboration [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► there wasn't just a pipe dream I talked [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► about the classic controller the [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► Nintendo classic controller which is the [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► alternate controller used to play [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► Virtual Console games on the Wii like [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► the NES games and SNES games and I [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► talked about how not be suitable for [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► GameCube games well not only is it not [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► suitable it's not even possible to play [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► GameCube games by the controller I don't [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► have a classic controller which but I [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► didn't know this I thought like well I [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► have those analog sticks in there it's [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► supposed to you know if there [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► that would be for GameCube games like [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► boy I would never play GameCube game [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► with the with those analog sticks but [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► not to worry about that because you have [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► to plug in the actual GameCube [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► controller to play GameCube games you [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► can't use the classic controller which [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► kind of makes sense when you think about [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► it because the when you're playing [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► GameCube games that thing turns into a [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► GameCube it ignores everything ignores [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► the Wii mode ignores that's why it's [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► stopped playing a gamecube game you like [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► turn the thing off you can't use you [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► know you can't have the Wii Remote home [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► button and then you come up running you [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► just basically transformed your Wii into [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► a Gamecube so yes the classic controller [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► won't work uh and that's how the follow [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► up I have I didn't I didn't go trolling [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► through my email I'm sorry if you sent [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► in some email I will try to put that all [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► into the next week's show if I can is [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► there any particular feedback email you [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► wanted me to address did you see most of [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► it no I mean I think you know I think [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► you do a good job of identifying calling [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► out the critically important ones but we [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► did I think since I'm just looking at [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► this in the last what's today today is [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► the 20th I think since the last show I [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► mean there's been there has been a lot [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► of feedback coming in about this show a [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► lot which one the good fellow show or [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► the this show this particular show the [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► hypercritical oh yeah yeah another [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► control people are still going on about [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► that was that everyone's got a [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► controller that they think has been [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► slighted by history and is much more [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► significant than it gets credit for me [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► just today someone came in about the [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► sidewinder uh Microsoft Sidewinder that [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► accelerometer is in it uh it was like a [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► PC controller I mean I all these people [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► are basically right like they're every [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► one of these things has some place in [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► history and has some interesting [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► innovation I think people get a little [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► bit to hunt including me get a little [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► bit too hung up on who did what first [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► and who is the real leader and stuff [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► like that even even though we know it's [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► silly not important we all especially if [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► you grew up during the console wars yeah [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► like I was always saying I look at Sony [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► at stealing its innovation from Nintendo [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► right it's just as bad as the people [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► were saying well Nintendo's stealing [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► your innovation from Microsoft because [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► the sidewinder had accelerometers in the [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► controller long before it was a glimmer [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► in Nintendo's eye so Microsoft is the [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► real invader we're all a but you know [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► our younger selves were all console [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► fanboys and it's hard to snap by that in [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► case this isn't clear I'm doing most of [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► all this stuff in fun like I don't have [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► I'm not serious a lot of people think [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► it's deadly serious and [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► you should not be so insulting to [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► PlayStation players and the people who [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► love that it's all in fun from the cent [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► I'm sorry here if you continue to take [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► this very seriously it may seem like I'm [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► taking it equally seriously but I'm not [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► cherub says can't we just can't we all [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► just get reals ruined everything [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► no we can't even agree on that we can't [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► even agree [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► all right so topics for today inevitably [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► I will have a tiny tiny brief maybe say [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► about the iPhone mute switch okay brief [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► by who is nathan if i do speed summarize [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► this or would you like to try to speed [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► summarize it because i know you like to [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► give people context like suppose what if [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► they don't listen to all the other shows [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► well I I and I have to tell you that I [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► said that on on the last show that I did [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► with Marco we do a show called build and [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► analyze Marco Arment and I used to guy [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► who does Instapaper and we do weekly [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► show over there and we were talking [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► about the mute switch and he said I he [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► said something along paraphrasing I [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► can't believe there's anybody in our [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► audience who doesn't not not only [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► doesn't know about the mute switch issue [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► but who isn't almost probably already [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► bored of it and then we proceeded to [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► talk about it anyway for an hour but [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► this is the issue just in case and by [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► the way I will add that I I got probably [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► a dozen emails from people saying thank [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► you for providing the context I didn't [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► know about it I do live under a rock and [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► I appreciate you shining some light [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► under that rock for me so the speed [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► summary of this is on the side of and [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► we're talking specifically these days [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► about the iPhone 4 and 4s just just to [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► kind of limit the discussion right [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► there's a switch on the side of that and [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► it is it is by Apple it is called the [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► ringer / silent switch and by everybody [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► else and probably a lot of people at [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► Apple it is called the mute switch and [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► if you flip the mute switch to mute they [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► the phone will vibrate and the phone [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► won't ring if you get a call and most of [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► the other applications [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► won't make any sound some still do [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► including the alarm and apparently there [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► was a gentleman who was in the front row [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► at a philharmonic performance had been [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► handed a brand-new iPhone right before [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► the show someone had either he or [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► somebody else had set it up for him an [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► alarm had been set for some reason the [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► alarm then went off marimba went off [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► during the performance and apparently he [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► was unaware that it was his phone that [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► had been going off for several minutes [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► you know just continuously going and [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► going and going to the point where the [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► four monic conductor stopped the [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► performance and waited for the person [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► which was this guy to actually turn off [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► their ringer so that's this that's the [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► story and the debate the discussion the [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► thoughts on this are well if it's a mute [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► switch should it also mute the alarm or [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► not and of course there is no right [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► answer everybody has their own opinion [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► it's a great discussion John Gruber is [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► in the opinion that Apple's is of the [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► opinion that Apple's solution which is [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► the alarm still makes a sound even if [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► you flipped the mute switch to mute is [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► the best implementation for the largest [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► number of people ante not Co not [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► speaking for him but he wrote two pieces [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► on it and I tend to agree with him and [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► that mute should be mute that it should [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► work the way most of the other mute [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► switches in the world work which is if [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► you muted it should mute everything it [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► actually should silence the whole device [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► and there's lots of people who disagree [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► in green various reasons why that's as [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► fast as I could probably summarize that [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► if you that was like when I say [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► something's gonna be brief and then I [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► talk for it yes it's it stops the packet [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► on so if you want to actually hear long [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► drawn-out discussions of this issue [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► check out this week's talk show this [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► week's build and analyze the I don't and [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► you didn't talk about in his show right [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► uh we did not discuss that we delay show [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► we did we talk to mainly about the new [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► Apple Education iBooks authoring thing [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► though these links are in the show notes [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► if you want to hear about them I'm not [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► going to rehash them all here I have one [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► meta point and one additional point so [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► that the meta point I want to make is [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► we like to think when when we're all you [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► know blogging about this stuff or [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► anybody's complaining about it or [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► whatever even the deep thinkers the [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► people who blogged about this we're [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► trying to like we're trying to figure it [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► out what trying to figure out is there [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► is there a way that's clearly better [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► than the other ways has that ball got it [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► right or got it wrong and we're not just [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► doing like knee-jerk I don't like Apple [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► therefore Apple did it wrong or I do [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► like Apple therefore Apple did it right [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► well many people will accuse all of us [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► of that I think we're really trying to [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► think about it everybody involved and I [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► think everybody involved had you know I [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► forget who posted what first but like [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► then someone else will post something [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► that'll prompt more thoughts and someone [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► else is hitting us at them they'll say [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► you know I hadn't thought of that so and [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► then they'll build on it and they'll see [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► if that changes their opinion like when [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► you Gruber brought up that he hadn't [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► thought about the hardware overriding [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► the software and that triggers more [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► thinking and is that and he's really so [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► I think we are all definitely being [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► honest about this and the last time [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► intellectually honest that is the last [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► time I think this happened was with the [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► Safari tabs the top e tabs remember [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► those yes where the Apple breeds the [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► beta of Safari that had the tabs like [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► Chrome's tabs right there even more so [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► yeah they were they were very different [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► from well we had people there was this [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► was a huge this was a very big deal when [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► that happened yeah and it was a similar [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► type of thing where was a bunch of blogs [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► all trying to figure out like so what's [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► the deal is it good is it bad is it [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► indifferent what are the pluses and [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► minuses you know a couple they were the [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► first ones from you jerk like oh my god [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► this is very different this is horrible [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► they need to revert it back to the old [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► way but we all tried to figure it out so [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► this was a similar scenario but during [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► all these activities [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► I think everyone the readers and the [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► writers alike like to think that that we [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► are assessing an objective reality like [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► this is the way the phone operates which [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► we fear we figure out how it operates [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► you know through trial and error before [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► people freaking out this is this is how [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► it operates and let's consider that [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► reality and see what the pluses and [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► minuses are and the same thing for [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► alternate status well what if we work [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► like this how would we feel about that [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► and the assumption is that that you know [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► a set of set of features and a behavior [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► and then our opinion of it are you know [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► are tied together like this is the set [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► of behavior I'm going to think about it [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► and here's my opinion on it there's also [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► said a beer I'm going to think about it [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► here's my opinion on and we all believe [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► that you can move those around in time [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► and doesn't matter because we're all [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► we're assessing is the state of affairs [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► or a potential state of affairs we're [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► not assessing anything else in reality I [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► think it's that's not quite true [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► we the history the steps that brought us [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► to that state are just as almost as [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► important as the state itself you know [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► what I mean so the the thing I was [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► thinking about is if if the iPhone from [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► day one came with that little switch on [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► the side ah an apple called it a mute [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► switch it was a hardware switch that [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► like literally disconnected the speaker [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► from the wires right say that was their [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► their design from from day one okay and [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► that at some point it changed to the [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► current behavior I think that would make [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► us feel different about the current [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► behavior despite the fact that the [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► current behavior in both both places is [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► the same only thing that changes is like [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► how did we get here or what is the [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► history like what you know what I mean [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► whereas all the discussion about this is [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► like let's let's think about these [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► features and no one says well do I feel [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► this way about these features because of [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► the the the behaviors that preceded it [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► is that is that influencing my opinion [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► anyway I think it is a big influence [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► because had that switch always worked as [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► a mute for it just to give one example [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► there would be a sizable contingent of [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► people and a overwhelmingly strong [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► feeling that although the you know we [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► would assess the current behavior on its [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► merits we would say but the mute switch [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► on the iPhone has always meant turn [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► everything off therefore this change in [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► behavior is a big change of what we're [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► used to therefore it's not better you [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► know what I mean like even though the [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► actual be hit current behavior would be [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► the same we would say but we had all [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► these years but with the iPhone mute [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► switch that always it was cuts call the [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► mute switch it turns everything off and [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► even though that's not convenient even [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► though people like oh I really want to [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► use it as an alarm clock that's great [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► that you want to use it as an alarm [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► clock but but man that's always meant [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► mute and you know there would be like a [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► more of a rallying cry for keep it to be [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► you know a true mute switch right and [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► that it doesn't make sense and if you [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► think about it in terms of oh we're just [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► looking at the current feature set and [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► considering how it fits people's needs [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► because suddenly people [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► neither are you know all wrapped up and [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► how it has always worked or tradition [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► you know all right I think that is a big [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► big factor both in the top e-tabs in [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► Safari and in this mute switch is the [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► history stretching out behind it and the [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► potential history stretching out in [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► front of it so that's the only [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► definitely meta point I have to make [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► about this entire debate at the next [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► time one of these issues comes up I hope [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► someone brings that up and goes through [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► different scenarios we feel different if [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► it did behave like this would be feel [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► different if it had always behaved like [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► that you know what I mean would if it [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► had always been a mute switch what [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► people have been screaming and yelling [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► that they're they're missing their [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► flights because it doesn't operate as an [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► alarm or would they accept that that's [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► how this thing works you know that kind [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► of thought experiment is very useful [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► when considering features like this now [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► on to the actual topic itself briefly I [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► was trying to come up with a criteria by [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► which to judge the behavior and a lot of [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► people were talking about how do we [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► decide whether this is good and a result [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► lot it's easy to once you've decided [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► what you think is the best behavior for [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► whatever reasons it's easy for a lot of [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► people to say and that's even though you [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► can't satisfy everybody this is the [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► common case so this is satisfying most [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► people and people perhaps with evidence [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► like oh there's been millions of iPhone [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► users and this only happened to this one [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► guy the symphony it's a rare scenario [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► and it's optimized for the common cases [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► and this is an exception and everybody [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► did that to some degree and you have to [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► do that that's the way you have to think [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► about it I think but I wanted a better a [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► better criteria in that because we just [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► don't have enough information to be able [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► to make judgments editable is this the [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► common case we don't have a survey of [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► all iPhone users you know one story in a [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► newspaper is sensational it was the New [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► York Times or whatever and gets a lot of [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► exposure but we have no idea what the [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► real frequencies of the use of these [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► things are and they the measure I [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► thought was most applicable to the [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► scenario is frequency of tasks the ratio [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► the frequency of the task versus the [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► complexity of accomplishing it and you [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► want to do sort of in the Larry wall [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► slash Perl language design parlance you [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► want to do Huffman coding which is where [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► you make the most frequently occurring [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► tasks the simplest have the smallest [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► number of steps and I think that is [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► easier to get a handle on because and [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► that's what a lot of people were getting [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► out in [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► roundabout way but they were just going [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► to say it by by Fiat you know people [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► don't go to the symphony that often [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► therefore this is not a big deal and be [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► the test I was thinking of are how often [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► do you have to change are you in are you [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► in a venue where the normal behavior of [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► your phone is inappropriate movie [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► theater Symphony Church you know [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► whatever you know whatever thing it is [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► that you that you do that's out of the [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► norm that you have to a lot it's the [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► time when you go oh I remember my phone [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► any time they have an announcement about [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► phones something up on a screen about [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► foam someone over loudspeaker talking [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► about your phones [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► how frequently see does that happen [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► versus you know the complexity of when [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► you get that tickler oh I got to do [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► something with my phone that's out of [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► the ordinary how long does it take you [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► to accomplish that thing how confident [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► are you that you've successfully done it [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► and the other one on the other side of [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► this given the current behavior of the [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► phone is the people who use it as an [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► alarm clock how how many people use it [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► as an alarm clock and if but the more [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► important thing is if you do use it in [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► an alarm clock how often does do you [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► does that happen how often you interact [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► with it and the thing about alarms [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► especially if use it to wake up in the [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► morning or something is they tend to be [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► pretty darn frequent like every morning [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► right you know what I mean and so I [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► think where I come down on this not that [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► really matters in my particular opinion [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► I'm because what you said before is [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► right that it really is a difficult [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► problem there's no perfect solution but [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► I think where I come down this is that I [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► started off pretty strongly with you and [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► Andy but I started to shift as I thought [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► about people who do use it an alarm [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► those special scenarios where you need [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► to change the behavior earphone you're [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► on an airplane you're in a movie you're [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► in a symphony or whatever uh I think the [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► ideal scenario would be make make it [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► possible to make the phone behave the [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► way you want in those situations whether [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► that's everything silent or whatever and [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► I don't care if it takes four or five [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► taps because already airplane motors [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► like home settings the airplane mode [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► thing on right we're all kind of okay [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► with that because unless you're like a [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► business travel who flies every single [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► day you're okay that it takes a couple [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► taps and swipes and launching an app and [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► stuff to engage airplane mode I think we [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► would also be okay if there was a [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► similar thing or engage some mode that [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► has the appropriate behavior for you and [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► you're confident is really going to have [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► the appropriate behavior for you for in [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► your movie theater and it's [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► or whatever it is even if totally on the [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► power button for five seconds and doing [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► the swipe to shut the thing down [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► whatever it is as long as as long as [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► there's some way to with a series of [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► taps that may be pretty complicated get [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► the phone into a state where we're all [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► happy with it for each of these settings [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► it's okay for that to be complicated and [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► that leaves the the much more frequent [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► occurrence I think of the the alarm [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► scenario to be sort of the default [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► behavior the I'm going to use an alarm [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► clock every single day and every single [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► day I don't want to have to right before [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► I go to bed remember to do 17 swipes [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► like you're putting in an airplane mode [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► when you go to bed right too much you [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► shouldn't have to go through that number [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► of swipes every single day before bed [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► right it should be it should be simpler [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► this still leaves an open question of [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► how many people used our thing as an [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► alarm is this actually a common case or [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► so just local minority we have a dearth [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► of information here we don't know the [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► frequencies of these things I just think [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► that's in this case that is the correct [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► criteria to use when figuring out how to [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► design these features I think it's a [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► criteria that Apple does use to be fair [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► it's not like this is some great new [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► insight but that's that's what I landed [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► on as how do we decide what's good [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► frequency of use and complexity of [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► accomplishing the task so that's it ha I [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► got through the mute switch pretty fast [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► Wow [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► because really was exhaustively covered [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► elsewhere and they just had this two bit [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► stand and I will also add that your [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► Hardware overriding software thing that [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► was totally in the front of my mind that [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► I'm glad you posted that about I'm glad [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► you're you're blogging again look at [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► that you write in a little blog post [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► well I didn't know where else to put it [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► you know yeah I wanted to I wanted to [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► put it out there before the show started [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► this week so that I could get a sense [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► from the audience what what their [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► thoughts were you know you can ask [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► somebody something on Twitter but it's [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► very hard to communicate it's not like [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► this is that complicated of a concept [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► right but you you would struggle to [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► communicate your thoughts on this in 140 [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► or few characters so I figured okay I'll [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► try I'll put this thing out there [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► I'll see what people on Twitter say and [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► it'll also give my co-hosts an [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► opportunity to see what I think just so [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► that we can you know talk about a little [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► bit more but I wouldn't hold your breath [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► that they'll be more in them and movie [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► is that I got love to give I just don't [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► know where to put it what movie is [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► I thought it was Fargo but when I looked [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► for it once it wasn't Fargo chat room [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► can look that up I I don't all right are [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► you saying it the way because it sounds [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► like something about saying only if [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► someone like he's on the verge of a [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► breakdown Magnolia is that what yeah [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► that's what I'm thinking it is yeah I [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► don't remember which character was it [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► was it the same guy from Fargo what's [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► his name made uh Maisie what's his name [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► the main character the car dealer from [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► Fargo I spent a long time since I've [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► seen it but that's on the list of movies [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► that I want to do for the movie show [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► William H may see some people say his [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► room punch-drunk wrote love now it's [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► some people one person says Rock III so [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► we're off the it's quiz kid Donnie Smith [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► the quiz kid all right let's not turn [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► this into the movie line trivia show so [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► we now inevitably we must talk about [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► iBooks Author okay I was it's kind of a [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► crash course in getting a specific just [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► yesterday and the two are let's do our [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► first sponsor before you do it that's [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► good can we do that you need to unplug [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► anyway right yeah go for it let me tell [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► you about stripe really awesome sponsor [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► I'm really excited about these guys full [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► stack payments stripe makes it easy for [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► you to start accepting credit cards on [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► the web it's primarily geared toward [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► somebody who's doing development [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► software development creating an [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► application doing something like that [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► you always get to the point where you [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► say man I really want to charge for this [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► and I really want to I want [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► subscriptions or I want people to come [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► in and and buy this thing that I'm [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► selling how do you do it well the stripe [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► is the fastest way in the world to get [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► set up so that you can accept payments [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► you don't need a merchant account you [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► just put it in your bank account in a [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► couple of other details and that's it [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► they have a REST API you can also use [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► native bindings you're off that's it [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► you're ready to go it is that the [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► cleanest most simple API for this that I [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► have ever seen and I've been doing stuff [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► for a long time they have a completely [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► secure environment data never hits your [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► servers your your you don't have to deal [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► with a cumbersome third-party page when [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► you want somebody to check out and know [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► this is the main thing you totally avoid [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► PC [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► details because no credit card data even [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► passes through your server at all at any [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► point you have questions about this you [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► don't know how it works you can call [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► them you can email them you can join in [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► their campfire and hang out with them [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► and like ask the people in the company [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► how something works if you need out but [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► and they've cracked this they've got [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► recurring billing they've got native [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► support for plans that get prorated [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► charges I mean every metered billing [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► everything you want to do it's all in [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► visit stripe comm for more information [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► you've got to try this if you're doing [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► any kind of development if you're [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► building websites whatever it is you're [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► doing is a piece of cake stripe comm [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► check them out like I talked about in a [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► past show how PCI what I thought about [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► PCI compliance I think you shared a [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► little bit of that yeah all right I [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► don't cover it again you don't cover it [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► you know just having someone else do it [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► for you is good let's leave it at that [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► iBooks Author someone just posted in the [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► in the chat room KJ Healy's take on this [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► stuff which unfortunately I don't [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► haven't had time to read because I'm [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► pressing the link now which is [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► unfortunate because it's always [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► insightful but I do have some other [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► notes on it I did listen to your show [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► where you talked about it with Andy but [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► what I didn't do is actually watch the [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► presentation yet I watched a little bits [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► and pieces of it I didn't watch it all [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► the way through I did watch the live [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► blogs of it when it was going on so I [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► feel like I have a handle on the right [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► the nature of the announcement so I [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► don't know which way to come with those [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► I guess we'll start with this [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► application that they put out iBooks [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► Author a free application for your Mac [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► what does this thing do I did download [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► it and played with it a little bit I [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► actually also downloaded it on Snow [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► Leopard because I was impatient to get [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► home on and run on a line machine and [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► kind of get it it does work I was gonna [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► say that it didn't work at all [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► now it launches I mean you got to change [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► the you know the pls things around and [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► to convince it to do but it it runs but [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► it's interesting that it runs at all you [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► would think that it would just [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► immediately crash because it would be [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► referencing some library that doesn't [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► exist or some API but I think they did [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► weak linking or whatever the other might [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► have just been capability probing [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► whatever [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► that they do to make something run on [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► ten six and ten seven I think it's [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► probably just to be weak linking because [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► when you run on ten six and you like [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► select the toolbar item which I think [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► maybe is supposed to produce a popover [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► or something online but doesn't on Snow [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► Leopard because the popover API isn't [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► there the program doesn't crash it just [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► does nothing so the interesting I wonder [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► if they were considering having it run [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► on 10.6 or is this it just falls out of [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► the the technologies they use for weak [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► linking to libraries they may not exist [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► yeah but anyway don't run it on Snow [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► Leopard right online it even though it [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► quote-unquote works on Snow Leopard you [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► don't I do that so most of the talk has [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► been about what this thing produces at [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► the end you use the application what [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► features are there or not as it could is [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► in design is it better than pages you [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► know where you could drag a keynote [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► presentation into it can go as busy [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► stuff so on and so forth [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► in the end once you've done all that and [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► you're happy with what you've produced [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► and you've conquered the program and [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► figure out how to use it you get out of [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► it a dot iBooks files it I don't have a [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► singular or plural and you you get this [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► thing that doesn't look like any other [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► format if you were just to glance at it [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► what can I do with this dot iBooks well [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► you can you know throw our nine Tunes [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► and put it on your iPad and people can [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► read they're on their iPads they can't [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► read in an iPhone just on an iPad and [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► you can sell it through the iBook store [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► in theory or give it away for free [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► through the abacus tour but that's about [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► it and that was the first thing that [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► everyone was kind of upset about was [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► that they were hoping Apple would make [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► an authoring tool for e-books and Apple [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► has not done that they have made an [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► authoring tool for the iBook store which [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► is different you know and then even [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► above and beyond that they've made an [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► authoring tool that's geared towards [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► making a particular kind of book or [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► whatever [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► now the iBook store prior to this [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► announcement is like well the iBook [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► store uses epubs right so everyone knows [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► they you know you can take those epubs [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► and you know you can take an ePub and [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► send it out to the world however like [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► for example the my high line article was [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► available as an ePub and you could read [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► that epub in the iBooks read but you [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► could also read that epub than anything [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► that could read epubs as online readers [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► Repub there's a some I think this other [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► application to stands the reading public [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► standards [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► does the other ebook reading of it's an [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► open standard so this is a source kind [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► of like a w3c but for e-books that [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► defines these standards for for epub and [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► a whole bunch of different vendors can [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► write to it so what what the apples [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► thing puts out is a dot iBooks thing [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► which I think just like epub is like a [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► zip files or whatever you or it's a [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► container format with a bunch of stuff [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► inside it right if you change the [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► extension to pub or even if you don't [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► change and just check on an application [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► then your Stanzi pubs they will you'll [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► see that inside there is something looks [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► a lot like an ePub it basically is it's [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► kind of like an ePub in an all but name [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► and the current the latest version of [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► ePub is the epub 3 the latest version of [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► specification I don't know if it's a [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► completely ratified or done or whatever [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► but that's the latest one this new [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► format is is mostly epub 3 if you look [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► inside it and you know an ePub version 3 [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► file looks like you'll recognize lots of [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► stuff there so it's a bunch of HTML [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► files actually XHTML is actually XHTML 5 [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► which is the XML dialogue at HTML 5 but [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► and you know and you're like oh well [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► this is this is great this is you know [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► Apple made this proprietary thing but [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► it's kind of built on the standards [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► basing so it's not completely crazy it's [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► not like a binary format or it's not you [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► know something completely proprietary [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► then that no one has any chance of [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► understanding and you know they made [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► their own mime type for it which is kind [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► of weird but once you see that you know [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► the Lion temp is like application slash [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► X iBooks plus zip you know I [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► why wouldn't they use the ePub mine form [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► because I look at this container and it [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► looks like any pub file well they make [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► their own line format it's it's kind of [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► a signal to the rest of the world it [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► says I know this looks a lot like an [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► ePub but it's not it's an iBook thing [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► and it kind of absolves Apple from the [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► responsibility of making sure that what [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► iBooks Author outputs is readable by any [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► other system that understands epubs [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► because you can say well why were you [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► trying to read that in insert [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► application X it's not an ePub but but [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► it looks like a no it's not an e public [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► in the mind side look at the filename [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► extension it's not an ePub it's a our [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► own [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► type that happens to look very similar [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► he published a teapot right so there's [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► it's a very clear signal it Apple saying [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► this application is just for making [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► things for our store and the fact that [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► we happen to use a lot of things that [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► look like another format is like just [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► you know don't look at the man behind [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► the curtain who cares and if you look at [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► the contents of the thing even though [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► the format like a ePub defines like what [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► the directory structure is what the file [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► should be called or they should contain [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► what things you can use it looks like [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► any problem so you start delving into [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► the contents of them like for example if [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► you look into one of the CSS files you [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► will see tons of you know you should [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► sing vendor-specific extensions like - [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► Moz whatever [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► what is the Safari one is it - WebKit I [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► think this on the CSS properties you do [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► - and then some other word that's like [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► expressing a vendor specific grief it's [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► usually - WebKit so like a box shadow [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► would be like - WebKit - box - shadow or [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► yeah and there's a great there was a [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► great presentation and earlier I think [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► last year or two years ago at an event [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► depart someone gave great presentation [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► which I should have put in the show [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► notes but I just thought of now about [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► how these vendor specific extensions to [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► CSS are a great thing because that [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► allows browser vendors to experiment [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► with features features that are part of [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► a standard but haven't been ratified yet [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► or experimental features or whatever it [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► allows them to experiment with them in a [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► way that when they whatever the outcome [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► whether they come to be ratified and [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► become part of the standard or whether [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► they go away entirely [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► you haven't produced the you know it's [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► clear to both the browser vendor and the [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► people authoring - targeted that what [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► you're messing with here is an [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► experimental feature that you shouldn't [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► rely on it so they don't call it you [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► know text shadow they call it - WebKit [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► you know text shadow so it's clear that [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► it's yeah you know it's so clear that [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► you're targeting just one browser and [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► that this is obviously not an open [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► standard that you can expect to work [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► everywhere and does make for strangeness [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► because if you wanted to do tech shadow [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► before it's like fully ratified you have [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► to do - Moz blahblah tech shadow mais [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► WebKit bla bla text shadow whatever the [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► hell the IE ISM protects out and you'd [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► have four different declaration four [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► different rules and you know the CSS [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► spec says just ignore any property you [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► don't understand so all the other [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► browsers will ignore all the rows except [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► for the one that apply to them so [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► sometimes you'd have to repeat yourself [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► 15 different times to say something so [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► these [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► uh these sort of looking like epub3 type [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► files that iBooks produces are filled [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► with tons and tons of stuff most of [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► which is not in any CSS standard current [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► or speculative - iBooks you know iBooks [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► layout hint iBooks strikethrough type [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► iBooks gutter margin-left iBooks got our [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► margin right iBooks head height tons and [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► tons of rules uh in some cases and ended [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► by the way there's no standards [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► compliant fallback like with the vendor [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► specific ones like tech shadow now I [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► believe text shadow is in some ratified [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► things so you're supposed to do all the [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► vendor specific ones and then the [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► fallback for the standard compliance one [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► these are all just a bunch of properties [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► some of which seem to have no analogue [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► in any spec anywhere and there's no [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► standards compliant fallback one of the [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► one of the good ones is iBooks line [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► hints and then you give it a bunch of [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► things and then you can give it a URL to [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► a plist file and then a bunch more [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► arguments so this is like completely off [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► the reservation like a CSS hint that [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► takes as argument a plist file you know [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► propyl property the spouses XML files [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► filled with arbitrary you know [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► arbitrarily deep tree of name value [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► pairs and arrays and I can't even [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► imagine what they're doing so it's like [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► you know they're using the the trappings [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► of epub but the things that actually [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► control what these books look like might [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► as well just be completely custom code [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► because there's no other web browser [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► epub read or anything is going to be [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► able to make heads or tails of this [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► stuff it is completely off the [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► reservation especially the layout stuff [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► they have a strange language in the [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► layout with like double colons prefixing [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► everything where they're trying to [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► define like boxes and stuff flowing [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► around and everything it's like if you [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► were asked to take like a you know a [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► page maker document from way back when [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► with like in a limited ability to lay [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► stuff out and say okay well redesign [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► that format but you can only use CSS but [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► you can make up any rules you want right [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► they they made up this entire language a [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► page layout that has almost nothing to [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► do with any existing standard and that's [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► what they used to lay out all their [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► books so if you take one of these things [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► that's beautifully laid out and and [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► looks great in the new version of the [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► the iBooks reader application and throw [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► it in an ePub reader and you know can do [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► the conversions to make it choke it down [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► change the filename extension maybe [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► move the metadata about the cover image [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► someplace else and do some other stuff [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► it'll say how great I can open this then [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► it would look like scrambled garbage [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► because there's no way it can understand [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► all these rules so they've basically [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► made a completely custom file format [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► using the D languages and the sort of [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► traditions let's say of epub format but [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► not the details up and I put a link in [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► the show notes to a good article [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► explaining some that some of these [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► things and also that same article linked [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► to a mailing list message to one of the [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► CSS working group mailing lists from I [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► think it was March of 2011 saying hey [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► here at Apple here's what we're thinking [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► of doing for laying out like custom [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► flows of text around arbitrarily shaped [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► objects and stuff like that [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► so you know what do you guys think of [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► that as kind of Apple saying you know [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► we're doing this it heads up like that [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► there is actually a CSS proposal in the [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► work center in the the official process [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► of making a way to have text flow around [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► arbitrary objects and stuff like that [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► but apples not going to wait for that [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► process to conclude or you know they [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► can't wait they're going to say well we [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► we would love to put out this iBook [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► authoring tool but geez we really need [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► to wait for the the standards forward [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► for a CSS text flow about arbitrary [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► objects to be nailed down then apples [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► not going to wait on that and so they [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► didn't they just gave it heads up that [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► said we're thinking of doing this here's [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► here's what we're thinking of doing from [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► a technical perspective what do you guys [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► think and meanwhile I bet they were just [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► say oh we're just doing this and they [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► just did it you know I mean but is they [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► are you saying this the whole thing is [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► bad I mean the way you're talking about [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► I can't tell do you think it's bad you [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► think it's good if it doesn't matter I'm [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► explaining what it is so people don't [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► think that these are just epubs and I'll [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► be able to easily easily convert these [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► to eat people say I want to convert it [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► to ePub that's kind of a meaningless [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► state do you mean get it to the point [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► where according to the spec it's is [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► exactly compliant I don't know if the [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► spec specifies that you can't use vendor [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► specific extensions in the CSS file and [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► of a CSS but if those are used to layout [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► to make your book look the way it looks [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► the fact that you can get it to open an [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► ePub reader means nothing so what I'm [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► trying to express with the people to [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► understand that this thing is the phrase [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► converting to ePub makes little sense [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► and if you have if I had to nail down [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► and answer that question can I convert [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► to the Steve pub I would say the answer [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► no because if you take a complex ibooks [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► thing that uses all the features i looks [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► like and what's the point otherwise it [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► will be scrambled miss elsewhere there's [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► no mechanical process for you to [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► translate this is you can't even you can [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► you can see of a mechanical process [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► because some of the things that it does [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► simply aren't possible using existing [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► standards in css3 or the parts of css3 [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► that are supported by current browsers [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► right it is basically a custom format [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► and I'm saying the reason they did this [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► is because if they didn't they would be [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► waiting on an external entity before [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► they could you know deliver the thing [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► that they wanted to deliver and you know [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► Apple doesn't like to do that good or [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► bad [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► um I think it is well let me see was [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► anything else in the forum before I talk [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► about whether this is good or bad the [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► other thing I'll say is I think that if [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► you made it like so what if I make a [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► simple document it's just text it's like [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► it's got a title and it's got a stream [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► of text and it breaks up into pages what [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► if I export that then surely that I can [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► really transform into an ePub that works [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► I think it would be easier but I it's [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► kind of like when you would say about [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► something from Word as HTML and you'd be [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► shocked about that you look at the HTML [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► like what the heck is is doing this was [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► just like I just started typing with the [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► defaults and I hit save and they're like [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► three paragraphs of text and when I [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► export HTML it's it's big hairy mess [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► kind of the same way and that it's going [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► to put all that weird custom format and [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► layout stuff in there with old custom [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► rules right just for the defaults just [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► to say oh this is just a plain big [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► column of text so I would say don't [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► think of this as an ePub authoring tool [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► Apple doesn't think of it as that [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► they're not promoting it as that but [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► people won't say content details like [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► all this is almost any puppets not uh [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► that's not going to happen [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► now the confusing thing about this from [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► the perspective of people who wanted a [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► generic epub authoring tool is that in [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► this market for for e-books Apple is not [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► the leader I think we can all agree on [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► that old every time I say that I get a [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► whole bunch of iBooks fans emailing me [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► and telling me how much they love live [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► books and do all the reading books and I [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► buy everything they had [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► door but I think we can all agree that [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► Amazon is the current leader in the [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► fields of e-books do you agree with that [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► I think that's probably true and I mean [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► I would need to I don't know the numbers [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► how do you define what Allegiant it's [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► difficult because I think apples not for [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► particularly forthcoming and Amazon for [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► that matter isn't particularly [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► forthcoming with exact numbers like [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► Amazon won't even tell you exactly how [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► many Kindles it sold but it'll give you [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► ballpark and apples not too big about [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► giving you individual breakdowns of like [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► iBook sales versus free ebooks right [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► it all ends up getting lumped into like [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► this software services line item which [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► is a drop in the bucket compared to like [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► how much money make up if it's not if [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► it's not Apple John who is it it's not [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► Amazon you mean yeah yeah and I don't [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► think I don't know I'm just gonna say I [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► can just say for the sake of argument [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► but see pretend we all agree that Amazon [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► is the leader in in terms of sales [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► volume because it's a it's not Apple is [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► it no and I don't know how the iBooks [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► store is going is doing financially but [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► I don't it doesn't seem like it's as big [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► a success as it could have been so given [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► that if you agree that Amazon is the [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► market leader then you have a situation [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► where when you have a market where there [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► is there is a strong leader and I think [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► Amazon is a pretty strong leader the [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► Kindle brand and you know certainly [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► Amazon is leading in book sales because [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► they still sell physical books too so [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► that's one of the reasons why Amazon has [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► such a big share someone else brings up [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► Barnes & Noble I think we would all [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► agree the Barnes & Nobles also behind [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► Amazon oh you have this this leader in [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► the market for e-books usually the the [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► strategy that Apple's use successfully [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► in the past and that I've seen a lot of [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► other people use successfully is if [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► you're not the market leader what you do [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► is you come in especially in a new [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► market like this you come in and you [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► start pushing open standards and you say [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► well Amazon is a leader with their [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► proprietary format they're trying to [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► lock you in with but we here in the [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► everybody been Amazon camp are strongly [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► behind epub because it's an open [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► standard and we believe interoperability [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► is the blob of all you mean you know all [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► the stuff whether they're honest about [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► it or not this happens a lot if you're [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► not the market leader you don't compete [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► by trying to introduce your own [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► proprietary format you compete by [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► getting behind a standard because you [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► know on your own you can't compute you [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► you can't compete but together everybody [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► except for the market leader [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► we band together and we all agree on [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► epub and it's all interoperable in [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► aggregate we may be bigger than Amazon [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► that's the way you over for overthrow [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► the market leader and the example the [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► Apple I would give for Apple doing this [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► is when Internet Explorer was the market [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► leader in browsers and they had all [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► their ie specific extensions and ActiveX [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► and all sorts of horrible things that [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► were still recovering from in terms of [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► IE isms and javascript people that's [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► right just the way the Dom API works now [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► that's just tonight the rest of the [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► market said our reaction to this is not [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► to field our own browser with their own [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► very specific vendor specific extensions [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► and proprietary things a proprietary you [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► know equivalent to ActiveX and our own [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► crazy changes to the Dom API so you have [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► to do you know that the industry's [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► reaction was to get behind standards and [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► Apple did that as well with WebKit when [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► they when Apple made its own browser it [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► didn't try to beat Microsoft at its own [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► game it said we're gonna make a [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► standards compliant browser and look at [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► us passing the acid test and the acid to [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► test and whatever the different you know [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► yeah that was a big part of their their [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► PR push and and it's not wasn't just [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► yeah posturing WebKit is now everywhere [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► you know even apples sworn enemy Google [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► it was chrome engine is using WebKit [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► ability to do their own JavaScript [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► engine but the Apple pushed open [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► standards in the web market because they [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► thought that was the way and everyone [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► felt that's the only way we're going to [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► overthrow the the dominance of ie which [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► has this great advantage of shipping [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► with Windows we have to all get behind [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► standards I have expected the Apple was [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► going to deploy that same strategy with [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► electronic books and when they came out [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► with the original ebooks and they kind [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► of used epub like I remember I wrote a [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► wrote something about what I expected [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► out of the iPad I thought that Apple [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► would produce a format that is uses HTML [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► and CSS and stuff like that but [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► basically was its own thing and I was [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► kind of pleasantly surprised when they [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► said oh and the first version of the [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► iBook store you know uses epub of course [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► once I got to know that format and [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► talked to people to actually use it to [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► like yeah it's epub but it's got lots of [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► that Apple specific extensions and what [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► it comes down to is like look if you [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► want to do something fancier you want it [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► to look just so [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► you you code for the iBooks application [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► on the iPad and you don't worry about [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► how that's going to look when you throw [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► it into a generic ePub reader and to [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► some degree you can understand this [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► because in the dawning of epub there was [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► no reference implementation like oh well [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► you should be doing it this way because [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► in a real standard to apply any proper [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► reader look like X all the readers have [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► their own weird quirks and it was kind [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► of like the early days of web browsers [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► where yourself you had a [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► standards-compliant web browser there [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► was none you know there was a E's weird [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► way of working and netscape's weird way [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► of working and maybe like arena for [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► Emacs or whatever was LS the real [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► standards compliant one there was no [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► that's one of the problems with w3c I [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► think is they never righted a reference [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► implementation of anything that's a [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► better way it was you couldn't say you [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► should make it standards compliant say [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► why nothing renders it in that way I [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► just need to know how it works in IE how [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► it works in that scape and that as that [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► ballooned we realized what the problem [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► was and we wanted standards compliant [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► and so then gecko and WebKit and those [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► things tried to be standards compliant [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► the acid tests and examples like that is [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► like look we're going to say this is how [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► it should look [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► does your browser make it work like that [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► ah um you know that's how web browsers [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► have become better but in the early days [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► of epub there was nothing that rendered [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► things quote-unquote correctly according [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► to the purity of the be developing epub [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► spec right so I thought well you know [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► apples got to use this proprietary stuff [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► a little bit like its own little [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► extensions new pub because there is no [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► reference implementation and they just [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► want their stuff to look good but hey [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► they used epub they called the D pub [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► they didn't they didn't change the you [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► know they say oh it's our special they [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► said hey we're using epub this is an [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► industry standard right now they've gone [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► back on that and they started going the [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► other direction I thought they would [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► start go whole hog like this is epub 3 [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► and we were the first full [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► implementation of all the pub 3 [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► including the speculative parts and [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► we're part of that process and blah blah [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► instead they just said you know what [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► we'll leverage that technology and our [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► you know our css3 extensions we have in [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► WebKit and everything but really we're [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► making a run format here and that's [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► disappointing to me and I think it will [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► be a it's not unsuccessful that's [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► successful then it could have been to go [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► the other direction and say it's going [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► to be everybody versus Amazon because [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► Amazon does have its proprietary format [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► it's like mobi which they acquired from [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► mobile pocket [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► everyone's got their own dear Rams [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► we don't even discuss that we're just [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► like yeah you're going to put your own [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► DRM on top of stuff or whatever but in [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► terms of book production if you're if [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► you're making something for sale [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► everyone is behind epub not because this [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► is great format or anything but just [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► because it's like geez we don't all want [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► to make I could make one thing for [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► Amazon and I got a totally different [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► totally different workflow and [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► application to make it for the iBook [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► store and the totally different thing if [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► I want to download as a PDF we wanted [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► like you know let's hook it behind epub [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► and then we can have this healthy [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► ecosystem of epub generation tools and [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► epub readers kind of like we have this [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► healthy ecosystem of tools that generate [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► a content for the web and then we have [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► standards-compliant web browsers right [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► apples kind of closing the door on that [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► I don't know if they think you know we [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► have the clout to go it on their own [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► with their own proprietary format [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► because our thing is so cool that people [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► are going to want to use I see how [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► awesome these books look and we have the [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► hardware to back it up hardware is [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► really awesome it's really fast and we [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► can do some really cool things a boy [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► aren't they amazing people say I don't [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► really care that I have to do this [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► entire workflow just for an iPad because [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► really the iPad isn't the only tablet [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► that matters because it sells so much [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► and if we agree that books are going to [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► be on tablets then who cares that this [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► is an entirely separate workflow who [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► cares that I can't have an ePub [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► authoring app that lets me deploy to all [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► the stores Amazon isn't really helping [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► with this either because they're like [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► what were the market leader was sticking [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► their own proprietary thing I don't know [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► what Amazon's plans are but it wouldn't [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► be an interesting move for Amazon to [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► suddenly turn around and fully embrace [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► epub you know what I mean because then [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► Apple would really be screwed seems like [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► they're the market leader and look [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► they're being all open and everything [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► you know what I mean yeah so this is a [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► curious move to me and I think it's [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► probably a mistake it's probably going [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► to dampen the the chances of success of [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► this initiative and it reminds me a lot [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► of a lot of people brought like ping and [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► stuff like that I don't think it's as [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► bad as ping but it reminds me of the [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► iBook store in general that I don't know [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► Apple has this strange unjustified [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► confidence in its abilities when it does [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► stuff like this it has justified [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► competence in terms of disrupting like [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► that the media distribution and software [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► distribution because it's done though [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► successfully on many different fronts [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► Mac's off [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► our mobile software television movies [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► music like it that's kind of all of a [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► piece and it's done that well but if for [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► some reason in this industry I think [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► it's making the wrong moves and I think [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► that this initiative you're not going to [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► suddenly see in ten years like boy [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► remember when when iBooks Author came [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► out and we thought it wasn't gonna do it [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► well but now everyone I know when they [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► go to school they get all their [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► textbooks and iBooks Author I don't [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► think it's going to happen and I think [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► Apple does think that's a possibility [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► which is just I don't know if it's [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► foolish or just false confidence or [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► they're just trying to protect a good [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► face but if they had it braced an open [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► format and gone with a more open more [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► capable authoring tool I think they'd [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► have a shot at it would still be [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► difficult but as it stands now they've [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► just narrowed themselves to a much [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► smaller market with because this is how [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► they want it the way they wanted to go [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► and this is before I even get to many [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► other objections of why this this [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► initiative could possibly be a failure [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► the best one I've seen expressed online [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► although it wasn't a series of tweets in [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► on a blog post so I'm sure there are [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► blog posts out there that talk about [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► this maybe Katie Lee's blog post talks [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► about this I'm ready yet are the [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► existing I'm knocking all the myths the [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► existing tropes of computers in school [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► which you've all seen for our whole life [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► it's like I wish I could remember [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► someone I was like kids are bored in [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► school therefore we have to dazzle them [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► with an audio-visual fireworks light [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► show right kids aren't interested in [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► math but boy if it's if we could to have [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► animated math an animated turtle on our [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► Apple 2 that blinks and beeps that will [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► make them interested in math [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► entertaining the kids right we've seen [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► that our whole life the education will [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► be turned around by because the kids are [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► bored now we'll be show them something [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► flashy they'll be entertained not new [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► with the with the iPad it's been [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► happening in our life technology will [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► solve everything like a book is just a [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► book but boy imagine if you could move [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► the little you know dot on the line with [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► your x squared graph and learn about [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► well what's the current value of this [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► point in the parabola Wow see I can move [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► it with my finger that gives me a deeper [TS]