Hypercritical

00:00:02 ◼   ► this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► the world of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► technologies and businesses [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► nothing is so perfect it cannot be [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► complained about by my co-host John [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► siracusa I'm Dan Benjamin [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► today is December 23rd 2011 it's Friday [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► this is episode number 47 we have a [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► couple of sponsors that we would like to [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► thank very much for making this show [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► possible the first one is tap folio an [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► easy and beautiful way to look at stock [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► markets create a simple watch list or [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► start a real or mock portfolio in two [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► seconds a true touch experience for your [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► iPad rendered in glorious OpenGL tap [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► folios third update hits the App Store [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► with a small bonus it's completely free [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► for the holidays get it and share it [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► from facebook.com slash tap folio [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► bandwidth for this episode of [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► hypercritical is brought to you by [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► stitcher smart radio here all the shows [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► from five by five and thousands of other [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► great podcasts on demand and on the go [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► with stitchers free mobile app stitcher [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► calm / 5 is where you'll find it you can [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► also win 100 bucks hello john siracusa [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► of massachusetts hello Dan Benjamin of [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► the lower part of the United States [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► wherever you love Florida Texas that's [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► it I know I was born and raised in [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► Philadelphia Pennsylvania right but I [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► mean like as a Riesling adult uh as an [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► adult I lived in South Florida Central [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► Florida and Austin Texas and North [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► Carolina Raleigh area there you go for a [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► while more southern states yeah try to [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► hit them all I'm done now all right stay [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► here for a while I'm gonna start today [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► is a episode with a quote this is from [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► Wallace set Stanley ser si y re okay [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► nothing to do it would you call him a [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► super ser I don't know I don't know if [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► that's how you pronounce his name he was [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► a professor at Columbia University in [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► the early 1900's he died 1972 according [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► to Wikipedia probably not a Super Saiyan [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► and this quote that I just looked up is [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► from The Wall Street Journal in 1973 [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► okay I don't know how I guess they [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► quoted him after his death post post [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► post whom ously quoted yes I quote [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► assess academic politics is the most [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► vicious and bitter form of politics [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► because the stakes are so low have you [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► heard that saying before I've never [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► heard that before [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► I have I heard many times before but [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► they had no idea who it was attributed [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► to so I looked it up and that quote [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► applies to two topics from the last show [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► I think and we will cover both of them [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► in the follow-up segment Wow starting [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► with the most trivial of the two with [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► lowest stakes and of course had the most [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► vicious and bitter feedback from readers [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► sure and that is the offhanded comment I [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► made during some other topic about how I [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► didn't like how some fortune article had [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► made Steve Jobs his last name possessive [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► right and they had written it Jay OBS ' [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► and I said I didn't like that you did [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► not like I liked Jay OBS apostrophe s [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► now for the record I don't remember you [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► saying that you thought that it was [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► wrong I mean maybe I'm remembering this [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► incorrectly I don't remember you saying [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► that's wrong as much as perhaps [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► something along the lines of that's not [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► the way to do it that's not the way I [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► like to do it or that doesn't make sense [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► you were certainly I don't like it was [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► what I said but yeah which which is true [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► but then you then you asked well before [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► we get to that so it regardless of what [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► I said that the readers lots and lots of [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► feedback on this lots of feedback [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► Twitter lots of direct email to my arse [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► account lots of email through the forum [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► and of course the most vicious readers [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► were very sure that whatever their [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► position was was exactly correct like [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► that there was there's no ambiguity [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► there's no debate no conflict [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► to quote Darth Vader and that is just a [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► clear-cut issue and of course we got [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► feedback in both sides of that clear-cut [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► in one direction the other number when [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► we talked about it your first thing you [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► asked me after I said I didn't like it [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► at all [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► he said well isn't this just a style [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► issue and I said [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► well see when people say a style issue [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► I'm not quite sure what they mean I mean [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► what I said was I don't I don't really [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► think it's like a style issue like how [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► you choose to write but then I said you [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► know different style guides say [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► different things but you know some style [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► guide say you should do it this way some [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► song I'd say you should do it the other [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► way so it's not it's clearly an issue [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► with a I don't think anybody has the [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► authority to say this is the absolute [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► right way to do it because because the [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► opinions do vary so much but I very [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► strongly prefer one particular way so if [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► I was creating my style guide obviously [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► I would say that you should do it this [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► way so I guess some example some [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► examples from Twitter and email stuff of [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► things that people said so here is I [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► guess this is an email here is Brian [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► Lennon bram sorry Brian [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► Brandon Lennox saying this is not a [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► stylistic choice I mean that's as [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► straightforward as you can get this is [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► not a stylistic choice the fortunes [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► treatment was incorrect and Isaacson [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► miraculously gets a right Isaacson's [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► book by the way it says J OBS apostrophe [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► s which is the way I like it better so [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► now you're a fan of Isaacson and I don't [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► know so this is this is Brandon Lennox [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► and he said then he falls it up by [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► saying I speak with the authority of an [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► amateur bloggers so obviously he's [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► little tongue in cheek there ah lots of [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► feedback from people whose Nate whose [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► last names ended s to example there Adam [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► weeks and Rob Matthews and both of them [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► prefer to have the apostrophe s added to [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► the end of their names and Rob Matthews [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► actually recommends reading the book [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► eats shoots and leaves everything that [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► one have not seen that one it's fairly [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► well known like book about grammar and [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► punctuation never never seen it made it [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► through my English degree without ever [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► hearing event and I think that's what [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► eats shoots and leaves yeah I part of [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► the book for I think I've a read part of [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► it but I'm presuming that it's support [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► you know when I'm looking at the I'm [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► looking at the cover now here on Amazon [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► which I'll put this in the show notes [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► and and it is familiar to me I'm pretty [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► sure I have seen this but I hey yeah why [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► not like refer to the Chicago Manual of [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► style for that so and then so those are [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► on one side on the other side you've got [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► Josh Biggs I can't help reading his [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► names and I think blast Biggs where are [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► you well here he is he's on Twitter [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► uh says I don't know what kind of school [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► Syracuse who went to but as a person [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► with last name that ends in s the proper [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► possessive is esta pasto he's a last [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► name s ender who likes it the other way [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► he just likes s apostrophe ed and then [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► he says and for the record s apostrophe [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► s is the British Standard whereas the s [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► apostrophe is the American convention [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► hmm most of the people who are just so [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► sure of whatever they're both these [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► people who are who are you know I like [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► it this way because I have last name [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► ending with s that gives me some sort of [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► authority to say how it should be one [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► way the other obviously even the people [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► with last names ending in S can't agree [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► but but so people are just so sure about [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► it and it makes me wonder no they don't [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► they don't even phrase it in like I like [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► it this way better or whatever just like [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► there is one correct way josh biggs is [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► saying there's one correct way for the [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► british standard is one correct way for [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► america no ambiguity i mean i guess it's [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► hard to get mp18 one in 140 character so [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► that may not be a fair characterization [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► and then some fellow named Dan Benjamin [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► response to Josh Biggs and says I like [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► to know yeah I'm an English major [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► see how polite a I'm not to correct him [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► on the trail never correct you on the [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► show see that when I read that it makes [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► you think that you think I needed to be [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► corrected and that you have a strong [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► opinion one way or the other honest I do [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► I do what is yours your show that I'm [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► looking you know I know what is your [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► opinion I ask ' of course obviously I do [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► think there's ambiguity well no no no [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► ambiguity oh did now now listen if you [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► if you're Steve Jobs or Matthews or [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► whoever and you you want to add the [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► apostrophe s you know that's your [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► preference just like you can wear a blue [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► sweater instead of a red sweater who [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► cares you know it's your your own choice [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► but as far as the one true correct way [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► to do it of course it's s apostrophe [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► come on it has to be the funeral edit [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► because the fewer letters the better [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► always alright so how do you you know [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► had you come to that realization how did [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► that come to it because fewer letters if [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► your letters are better the less I have [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► to write or type the better so it's that [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► it's like your personal your personal [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► rule is the fewer letters have to type [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► the better therefore this is what I was [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► taught in my in my technical writing [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► classes the more efficient you can be [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► for example [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► don't say utilize when you can say use [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► you know you focus on the most clear [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► concise effective way to communicate [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► something so if it if the choice is left [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► up to me and I'm going to type J OB s [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► apostrophe s or J OB s apostrophe why I [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► add the extra SH I don't need down who [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► needs that [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► but mostly 2011 who had strong opinions [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► when we did not say from where their [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► opinions come a lot of them I assume [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► that I mean most people get their [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► grammar rules from either what they've [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► been taught in school or reading grammar [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► books after the fact I mean because most [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► people aren't born with any particular [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► preference or grammar rules a lot of [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► them are kind of arbitrary anyway but [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► what we're all trying to do is how do [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► you pronounce it let me ask this John [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► how do you pronounce it so if you say [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► that they're there this iPad belongs to [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► John math uses this is John math uses [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► rather let me correct myself this is [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► John math uses iPad would you say that [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► yeah it's JC to cut the problem is it [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► main jobs is easier for me this is jobs [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► as iPad yeah it's a little off my tongue [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► that's a little better but the problem [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► is none of these are elegant solutions [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► the best way to say it is this iPad [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► belongs to ya such a perso so no matter [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► what what you did you're between a rock [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► and a hard place you're forced into a [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► corner and there's no good way to do it [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► I would actually suggest that nobody [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► should have a name that ends with an S [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► that's not I think it's preposterous I [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► agree with that we should implement it [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► right away yeah this is we should all [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► use a ski let's get on the problem isn't [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► whether there's to be an S after the [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► apostrophe the problem is why our people [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► haven't asked Stan of their name at all [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► in the English language so for for these [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► types of issues like I have I have my [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► personal preference my personal [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► preference is mostly based on kind of [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► like the same reason that the Gruber who [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► we'll get to in a little bit likes to [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► put the sentence ending punctuation [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► outside yeah have we ever talked about [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► that did we talk about that here no but [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► you know that's I mean that's more of a [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► clear-cut case where there is a British [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► standard and an American standard I [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► think most people agree on that the [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► British one is the sentence ending [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► punctuation outside an Englishman [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► but the reason Gruber likes it on the [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► outside it's the same reason that I like [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► apostrophe s and that it's kind of like [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► a programmer mindset where you're like [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► well the thing I'm quoting doesn't [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► necessarily have the period in it so why [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► should the the sentence ending or even [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► like the comma or whatever go inside the [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► quote if it's not part of the quote you [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► know what I mean like say you're quoting [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► something you want to be exclamation but [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► the quote is an exclamation you quoting [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► it as an explanation that you know [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► desquamation to go outside it's just [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► it's like if you're making a string [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► literal in a programming language it's [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► clear that things inside the delimiters [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► are part of the literal oil and things [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► outside aren't like the statement ending [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► semicolon and c or c++ doesn't go inside [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► the quotes unless that's part of the [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► string literal that's a very good very [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► good argument in favor of doing it that [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► way right and I think that's why he does [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► me and he makes its own style guide [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► right so this is how I'm going to do it [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► daring fireball has a style guide this [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► is what it is I get to pick it you know [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► there you go [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► and the apostrophe s just seems uniform [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► to me because like when I see s ' I'm [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► like is there more than one of them and [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► you're saying so all of them is esta the [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► plural possessive but you know you can't [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► have like your own individual style [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► sweet publication has their own style [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► but there are some well-known style can [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► you name some style guides you named one [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► a red Chicago man your style is the main [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► one that I I will file and there's was [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► it straight get Strunk and white but of [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► course [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► oh of course it Chicago Manual of style [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► is the one that I followed back when I [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► was in college [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► eons ago in our technical writing group [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► our school as a team for the old school [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► that's what we followed my mother is an [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► English professor at college and has [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► been for most of them if not all of my [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► life [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► and that's what she follows so you know [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► you just you get a constant to something [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► and you stick with it the whole the [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► whole you know quotes with the [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► punctuation inside that's one of those [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► things that I love the idea of putting [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► the punctuation outside of the quote but [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► it feels so wrong to me it's it just I [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► like it better but it just feels totally [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► like I'm like I know I'm breaking my [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► mom's hard if I do that so I don't do it [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► yeah I feel the same way I [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► I strongly prefer having it outside from [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► a programs perspective but [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► have made myself not do it that way to [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► the point now where it looks just weird [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► to me for it to be outside yeah I want [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► it like I want it there I want to do it [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► I know that you know yeah it's a family [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► thing and it just looks weird like it [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► I'm so used to it the other way from [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► reading it so much the other way I hear [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► something bugs man I know you're making [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► a point let me just throw this into the [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► mix okay I'm just gonna throw this out [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► there cuz I won't get your take on this [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► I know you're working towards something [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► I don't want to interact it makes people [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► very sad ah what do you think about the [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► American versus British pluralization of [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► things like companies like for example [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► in the u.s. we would say Apple has just [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► released a brand new iPad in the UK at [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► least written at least written they [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► would they would write may they say this [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► - I don't know Apple have just released [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► a brand new iPad yes I'm very aware of [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► this distinction having written about [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► companies a lot in my writing career I [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► would I would like to hear your comment [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► on that the thing about it that is in [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► certain phrasings it's natural you find [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► yourself wanting to refer to the [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► companies as plural but in other [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► phrasings that sounds awkward to us so [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► the one you just gave - sounds crazy - [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► Americans like Apple have like that's [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► like that's wrong right but if you if [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► you've ever like edited anyone else [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► talking about Apple right you'll see [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► that people it in America will [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► constantly refer to Apple as plural in [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► certain constructs and not even realize [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► they're doing it so I try very hard to [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► always catch myself when I do that and [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► make sure that I'm really talking about [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► Apple and singular and if it sounds [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► awkward you just you know you're you [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► rephrase that's like you said with the [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► possessive don't kill yourself like if [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► it's not working here it seems awkward [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► to you just just rearrange it phrase it [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► differently do these two sentences [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► whatever so I I do like the singular I [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► recognize that British use the plural it [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► really it's kind of arbitrary and you [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► just go with what it that's another case [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► where I think it's pretty clear-cut [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► where every American publication and [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► style guide says this is the American [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► Way and the British it's like color and [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► color with the O you and not the O you [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► is there's some clear divisions between [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► British and American so what I was [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► getting at would be with the this [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► possibly s thing is one people are just [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► they're just crazy about a huge amount [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► of feedback very sure of them [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► and it kind of amazes me that people who [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► are so sure of themselves like they [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► don't feel I need to support it like [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► it's just they don't say it's because of [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► how I was taught or I work for [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► publication X and publication X uses the [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► style guide but like it's just kind of [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► like a universal blanket statement I [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► think a lot of people get into that I [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► don't know I don't want to speculate why [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► they get into that but I imagine it's [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► because they're taught a certain thing [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► by teacher who is very enthusiastic [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► about being a certain way and they [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► respect that teacher and learn a lot [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► from them and they become sort of a [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► disciple of whatever that teacher said [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► and then like the support for doesn't [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► make that much of a difference and again [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► getting back to that you know stakes are [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► so low thing the people would just get [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► worked up about the stuff because the [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► you know it's a trivial issue and you [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► know I obviously from the show called [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► hypercritical I'm on board with that [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► because I do that about lots of things [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► so style guys Chicago Manual Strunk and [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► white in England apparently this thing [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► called Fowler's modern English used to [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► did some googling for style guides does [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► the AP style manual then is like more [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► esoteric ones like the American Medical [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► Association has a style guide for their [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► papers and you know getting getting on [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► down to individual companies can have [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► style guides uh [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► so I did a little survey of like the [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► general purpose style guides and the [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► Chicago Manual style Strunk and whites [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► elements of style and Fowler's modern [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► English usage all say add apostrophe s [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► to the end of jobs yeah and the AP [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► Manual style says no apostrophe s and [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► there was a big Wikipedia thread but [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► technically I should be adding it if I'm [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► if I'm Welles I'm a fan of shrunken [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► one-star uh not sprung well Strunk and [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► white has always been like that Chicago [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► Manual flip-flopped on it recently and [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► like in the most recent edition of [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► Chicago Manual I think they used to say [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► you could do it both ways or used to say [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► you should just put the apostrophe where [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► they change their mind so maybe when you [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► learned it it was actually the other way [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► with the Chicago Manual but now they say [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► apostrophe s uh and the AP manual like I [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► saw this in the Wikipedia thread they [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► were it was a Wikipedia thread [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► discussing what should be the Wikipedia [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► style guide or is it even possible to [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► have a Wikipedia style guide because so [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► many people contribute and stuff and [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► this is big debate and people citing two [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► different style guides is saying well [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► these people say this and these people [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► say that so on and so forth and one of [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► the people [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► speculated that I don't know if it's [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► speculation but I can't I couldn't cite [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► it you know KP style guide always [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► prefers the shorter version because it's [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► a really old style guide back from the [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► days when you had like a wire [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► communication other things that like [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► charge by the letter or whatever and so [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► a lot of The Associated Press thing and [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► you know you had column space and you [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► didn't want to have long lines and you [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► wanted to fit your content in so if [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► there was ever a choice between one [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► style that use fewer characters than the [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► other of course pick the shorter one [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► which is kind of a different motivation [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► but the same thing as you were saying [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► where it's like a a minimalism type of [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► thing omit needless words don't don't [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► make things big widen flowery and if [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► there's a shorter way to do it use a [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► shorter way but my personal I feel I [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► feel vindicated in my personal [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► preference that the Chicago Manual [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► Strunk and white and even the British [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► Valerie's modern English usage shawl [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► which are like the some of the top like [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► general-purpose style guides all agree [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► that you should add apostrophe s and [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► some of them have exceptions for like [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► Jesus and Moses which was the things I [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► brought up before and sure yeah I'm [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► after I'm after switch and you're [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► there's a compelling argument the first [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► but first time it really is an arbitrary [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► though like it's you all you need to do [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► is to decide what style guide you're [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► writing to and stick to it and you want [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► to make up your own style god it's a [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► blend of these just you know document in [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► its the consistency is more important [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► than the individual thing but I will say [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► to all the people who are just so sure [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► that whichever way they said is [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► absolutely right both the people who [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► agreed with me and who didn't agree with [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► me that anytime you're doing that with [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► even with things do you think are open [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► and shut grammar cases be you know look [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► it up see why why is this why do I think [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► this is it just because what I was [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► taught what how long ago is I taught [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► that where was my teacher getting that [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► information you know what I mean uh so [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► you're saying you're saying you're okay [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► however people want to do it as long as [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► they understand that they have made a [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► decision and it is not a issue of being [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► correct or incorrect that is simply a [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► preference and style preference for them [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► but see I hate the word style Dobies [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► when I think of style I think of it as [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► like not using passive voice or a [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► passive voice is grammatically correct [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► but it's a style issue if you don't want [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► to use it like I don't want to sound [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► that way because it's it's not it [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► doesn't change the content but it [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► changes like the feeling of it you know [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► I mean sure versus stuff like where does [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► the punctuation go in [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► which I guess I mean that all falls [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► under a style guy but when I think of [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► style I think more of like the you know [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► two equally valid things which one reads [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► better versus like a style God's going [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► to say punctuation goes inside and you [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► don't you don't get to pick that based [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► on what like how you want them to read [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► this and what kind of message you want [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► to send it's just like this is the rule [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► right but they're all they're all [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► encompassing a star guide so it's an [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► overloaded word with style but I very [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► strongly prefer the the apostrophe s and [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► I don't like it when people use toggles [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► don't do it for example Ars Technica [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► takes a lot of stuff from the AP style [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► guide much of which i despise and every [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► time it comes up like i can argue with [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► them for they say look this is this is [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► the our style guide so i don't care how [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► you write it or what you do it's going [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► to conform to the our style guide this [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► is more important for all the stuff on [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► ours to be uniform than it is for them [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► to but I will still argue with them that [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► yeah well that bit that decision you've [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► made and choosing the our style guide is [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► dumb and it should be the other way [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► because I have very strong preferences [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► on this issue but I totally recognize [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► that even the style guides can't agree [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► on it and the end of hours the old [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► majority rules like most of the style [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► guides I found on you you know you just [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► keep stacking up style guides on either [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► side until you feel satisfied that one [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► party is won or not you know and you [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► could also come back and say hey you [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► know why why is the style guide that [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► came out last year better than the one [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► that came out this year and ya know it's [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► yeah what you know do you use the most [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► up they will never uh maybe there's [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► reason not to I guarantee you know some [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► people like an older style for some [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► reason well I well we what we were [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► talking about this the one of the the [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► fans Scott Williams uh who's obviously [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► got the asset and he said he prefers the [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► apostrophe s you know I'm gonna go out [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► on a limb and say I bet most of the [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► people uh who's you know who are [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► unfortunate enough to have a name that [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► ends with an S and have to deal with [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► this problem there I bet you all of them [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► add the apostrophe s we don't need to [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► hear about it I'm but I'm sure I'm [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► speaking for them I don't know I bet but [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► you you should what you should take from [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► this is a you know I know I'm an English [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► major eh that's appeal to authority and [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► doesn't add anything to your argument B [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► see how polite I am NOT the correct him [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► on the show correctly that's the whole [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► point [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► yeah I'd like that you know your your [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► show tersh I know but you're you're part [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► of it too you should participate as [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► I participate I'd like to you know I [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► don't your it's all about your theory [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► I'm not gonna stomp on your alright and [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► and part see uh don't be so sure that [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► you know you have a sod correction to [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► make because in this case as you said [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► you know you thought it should always be [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► as a pot cores now now I've shaken I've [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► shaken your faith in the S ' I said I [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► said I might consider switching but I [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► still believe that the D the correct way [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► to do it would be the the way that [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► involves the least typing huh why why [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► add characters if you can convey the [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► same meaning with fewer characters [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► alright so getting get to another [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► trivial thing I had this in the last [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► show didn't didn't get to it [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► the great 5x5 Illustrated site yes that [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► there was an illustration for episode [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► number 45 what was the name of that [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► episode it was Star Wars is not a blog [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► post yes and the illustration for that [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► shows a hand-drawn picture of a web [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► browser looks like Safari and it in the [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► web browser is my tumblr brah blog which [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► I very rarely uh played oh I do have a [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► post that I want to put up there at some [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► point it's like my personal non-apple [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► related blog thing right it's called [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► hyper critical that blog actually [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► existed before the show and it's on one [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► of the other incarnations of this name [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► and the the the URL is Syracuse a tumblr [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► calm slash search slash Star Plus Wars [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► plus for the space and the thing the [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► text on the page says terribly sorry a [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► total of zero results for Star Wars and [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► results is written result and then the s [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► and apostrophe in that posture abs in [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► parentheses so it's re su LT open parens [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► s closed parens right and I looked at [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► that and I said oh you know I hate it [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► when when things do that I bet that's [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► not how the real site looks I went to [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► tumblr and did a search for Star Wars [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► and sure enough like that's brick you [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► know when you do a search for Star Wars [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► that is the actual URL slash search [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► slash you know Star Plus Wars and the [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► text on the page says exactly that [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► terribly sorry a total of zero results [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► in parentheses right for Star Wars this [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► drives me nuts as a programmer because [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► as anyone has ever done any web program [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► you come across this exact situation all [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► the time where the [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► going to be so a number of things and [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► you're going to stick the number in a [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► sentence that in English you have to [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► figure out whether that's number number [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► is plural or not and the super lazy [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► programmer way is like well I just want [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► to have one word so I'm going to result [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► then I'll put the s in parenthesis and [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► it shows that it's kind of optional [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► because it's my pseudo programmer [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► application of you know it takes like [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► you know the Turner operator is not it's [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► not going to take all day to just do one [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► little thing in there and say if you [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► know if it's one don't put the S [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► otherwise put the s right and yes [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► localization makes this harder but you [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► can have to deal with much harder issues [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► in localization you know anyway tough [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► luck but especially if it's like English [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► only you know don't do that programmers [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► out there take the three seconds to put [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► a little conditional in there to write [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► the correct word it's just that shows [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► like I don't always like that pick on [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► things that show a lack of attention to [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► detail the person who program this [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► didn't care about you know because it's [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► not rocket science it's not like they're [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► saying I wish I knew how to figure out [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► whether this was plural or not people [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► know how to do it right they just didn't [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► want to it's just easier for them to [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► just put the string with the number [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► right in it so I would like to to [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► publicly shame all programmers who do [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► this and if you find yourself in the [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► situation think of my voice in your head [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► saying take the two seconds make a macro [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► throw that Turner upper in there or you [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► know if you're using localization it [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► should really handle this for you you [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► should be able to put a number and then [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► the the thing and have it have you have [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► your localization system whatever that [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► may be figure out the correct way to [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► phrase all right so moving on to the [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► next topic which is the thing with [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► vicious and bitter a feedback with very [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► low stakes let's let's do our first spot [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► there that's a good idea we get it you [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► need to take a break to you know rest [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► anyway we'll do the fun one first not [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► that the second sponsor isn't fun also [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► but it's uncle slam from hand labra [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► so these guys they've sponsored before [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► they have this reminder game minder [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► thing that the Jon Circus is such a fan [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► oven this time they said listen Dan and [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► you know it's a holiday season we [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► realized [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► a lot of the shows that you do aren't [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► necessarily gaming oriented you do talk [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► about gaming on the show with with John [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► siracusa so for sure mention it on that [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► one it's alright what is this you're [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► talking about this is listen this is [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► uncle slam this is a new boxing game it [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► just launched you basically you play as [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► the presidents of the United States not [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► the band but the the men and it [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► basically it's a boxing game and you [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► punch presidents now the single local [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► multiplayer mode so you can play on your [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► own you play with a friend and it used [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► physics-based punching and real touch [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► based jet real controls it's not the [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► little virtual controller on the screen [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► kind of thing and they believe very [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► strongly that you should meld usefulness [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► and fun so that all the locations in the [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► game they're based on real places in [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► America so you can actually learn about [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► presidential history in the Hall of [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► Presidents so the game launched about a [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► week ago it has nine playable presidents [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► for iPad in the coming months they're [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► going to be adding more presidents you [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► can buy them with in-app purchases [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► they're going to have a universal [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► version will play everywhere else so [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► even even John circus will be able to [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► play it on his iPod touch so how do you [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► find out about this you go follow the [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► link that's in the show notes or you go [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► to iTunes and do a search for uncle slam [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► and you will find it so thanks very much [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► to handle Habra but lucky they don't get [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► caught up in that no political the [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► application policy thing I guess since [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► this is a game it is it is a game that's [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► true it is a game so this doesn't defame [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► the presidents I don't yeah I don't [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► think that they are different is [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► punching a president defaming them I [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► don't know [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► Apple is a capricious beast mm-hmm I [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► don't know bite while you can [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► yeah different really I just got that up [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► I'm aim did you get that oh no that's [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► great though how do you get the games [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► for it I haven't gotten that far yet but [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► like someone posted up I'm aim is up [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► grab all you can on looking at okay I'll [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► put this I'll put this initial I this is [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► the one by Jim Van Deventer I assume so [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► how many other apps could there be cold [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► I mean does it have a big red joystick [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► in for gettin so guess [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► I will put this in the show notes by the [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► way our show notes are brought to you by [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► the amazing people over it help help [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► spot.com best help this self wherever [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► yeah so I haven't got to the point where [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► I start adding roms and stuff but how do [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► you add proms I'm sure there's some way [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► to like it maybe add just like you had a [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► like a PDF to you know a 3/3 PDF yeah [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► it's free I'm sure it will be yanked by [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► Apple soon so grab all you can I got the [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► NES emulator back when that was on the [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► store for like 15 minutes before [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► athleanx this has been up for days [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► though so maybe they're not going to [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► yank it it doesn't come with any ROM [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► side we see so I don't maybe maybe it is [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► a case where they're they're going to [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► allow it although it seems like [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► something that's an emulator anyway [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► grabbed by MAME if you can so the other [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► topic that had low stakes but lots of [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► feedback was talking about john Gruber's [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► appearance on the verge and talking [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► about bias in tech journalism and his [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► possible bias in particular and [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► partisanship and all that business which [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► was the kind of the bulk of the last [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► show a lot of feedback on that some some [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► people had an axe to grind but most of [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► the feedback was really good where it [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► was like people people they're the [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► listeners of the show good about [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► responding to what was actually [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► discussed in the show and not going off [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► on their own independent rant about [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► tangentially related to the topic right [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► so here are a few examples a lot of [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► people brought up good points that I [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► wish I had addressed on on last show and [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► I will try to address in that Steve Barr [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► writes I'm just reading like snippets of [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► these people's things so they wrote lots [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► of stuff I'm trying to get to like the [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► one point that I think is most important [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► so Steve Barr says one can't read airing [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► fireball alone to get an accurate view [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► accurate view of the consumer smartphone [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► slash desktop market and I think that's [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► true that's something I wish I had [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► talked about in my show when people if [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► people want to read something and feel [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► like they're getting just like they're [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► getting all sides of the issue reading a [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► blog written by a single person with a [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► single voice is not going to give you [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► that because it you know at its best I [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► think this was in from Gruber and [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► Merlin's talk at South by Southwest [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► years ago or I don't even know if they [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► originated but a blogging is like [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► passion plus voice and so Derek fireball [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► has a person quest passion he speaks [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► with one voice if he tried to give you [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► all sides of the issue it would it would [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► not be the same experience not that [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► would be worse or better or anything but [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► it would not be the same and that gets [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► to the j-word we're gonna like all your [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► are you a journalist here you're not [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► being a journalist or journalists need [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► to be objective and journalist should be [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► partisan [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► I've always been repelled by the j-word [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► I didn't go to journalism school I don't [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► feel qualified to call myself a [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► journalist nor do I want to be a [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► journalist because when I think of [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► journalists I think of someone who maybe [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► this is another reason I don't use the [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► word is maybe my definition is totally [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► wrong but when I think of it I think of [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► somebody who is trying to give all sides [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► of the story and find find out as much [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► as possible about something and yes do [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► all the fact-checking and stuff you want [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► to do but they're they're not inserting [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► their own voice their voice is not the [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► primary thing they're they're not like [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► is it different being an opinion column [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► in the news page and that's when I think [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► of journalism that's what I think of now [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► you can have an example like a big site [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► like The Verge or I don't even ours [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► tactic or anything like that where in [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► aggregate the site together tries to [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► give a big view of the world like for [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► example our stock maker has people [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► writing about this exclusively writing [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► about windows and writing about you know [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► Android and writing about open-source [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► and Apple you know so an individual [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► person writing for the Apple section can [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► be focusing on Apple and not talking [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► about other things but the individual [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► person writing for the Microsoft section [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► is focusing on Microsoft and so as a [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► whole the publication is you know is it [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► as a journalistic endeavor right and [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► they try to distinctions between simple [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► straight news reporting and you know [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► opinion and editorials [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► and there's always a problem of like [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► well where do you draw that line and how [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► do you how do you make it clear to the [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► reader is this an editorial or not and [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► people get confused they get angry about [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► it but that's that's different than a [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► blog with even if maybe two people but [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► one or two people but certainly [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► something with just one person with one [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► voice that's you know the blogging that [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► the daring fireball wants to be and that [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► a lot of people do is it's one person [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► speaking with a singular voice and that [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► necessarily will not give you that you [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► know all sides of an issue right even [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► even if he tries to do all the research [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► and present all the information he's [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► necessarily [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► going to have one view and I think it [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► would make the site less interesting and [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► certainly less entertaining were key to [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► edit himself to try to say even though I [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► strongly feel this way about this thing [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► I don't want to you know I don't want to [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► put too much in my opinion that's not [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► what it's about it's entirely about his [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► opinion this is you know this is daring [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► fireball this is John Gruber this is not [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► a paper and I don't know if he considers [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► himself a journalist but all and all my [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► writing even though I write these big [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► reviews Mac os10 and stuff I don't [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► consider that a journalistic endeavor I [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► consider everything I write to be like [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► an editorial or an opinion column a [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► supported opinion and maybe an informed [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► formed opinion I will defend my opinion [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► with facts but it's nevertheless it's me [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► I haven't I'm not ever writing anything [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► to say this is what Ars Technica thinks [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► of Mac os10 no it's this is what I think [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► of that ghost and if someone else who [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► writes for our stock now wants to say [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► something else about Mac OS then they [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► can feel free you know what I mean so [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► that was a Steve Barr David Cheney [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► longtime listener and contributor was [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► fretting over partisanship and other [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► issues we talked a little bit about the [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► Senate in the chat room then he wrote [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► some emails one of the things he brought [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► up was when Apple is an underdog and [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► mainstream opinion of the company was [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► low I think was appropriate for him [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► meaning John Gruber to skewer trollish [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► pieces of the kind that John C Dvorak [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► peddled less those opinions become [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► accepted wisdom now that Apple has [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► become so big such articles are just [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► like little gnats buzzing around trying [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► to get attention there's enough general [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► awareness of Apple's good qualities they [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► really don't deserve the time of day and [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► they aren't going to have any effect [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► than I think so [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► this is a good point of like the [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► environment in which daring firewall was [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► born versus the environment now when [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► Apple is the underdog people seem more [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► accepting of vociferous defense of the [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► little guy but now that they are so much [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► bigger and so much more successful who [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► wouldn't say well it's not you know the [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► same thing you did back then doesn't [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► seem appropriate now you know why chase [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► down those people who are saying silly [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► bogus things about Apple why not just [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► ignore them because you know get you [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► know you know I mean and I feel that [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► some play sometimes to like the Mac [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► elope and John Gruber both enjoy finding [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► people who say things about [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► Appl that are just clearly at odds with [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► with reality or with the opinion of the [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► people writing and they just love [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► skewering them and and showing how wrong [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► they are and this is a really popular [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► thing to do back when the Mac was just [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► on the ropes you know late 90s Apple was [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► on the ropes people were not using [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► maxford constantly making fun of Apple [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► and so those of us who were still fans [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► of the computer just felt the need to [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► just SWAT down all these attacks and [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► that habit can be hard to get out of and [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► it ended still is entertaining to a lot [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► of people including probably the people [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► doing it I mean you know the Mac elope [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► is a fairly recent creation of the only [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► a couple years old or whatever oh who is [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► that say you right between that nobody [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► knows with Mac well bit except for the [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► bit except for the people who know I [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► have no comment under the Mac Lopez so [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► you know I have no comment until the [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► mangu of this but you do know if I have [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► no comment [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► we'll talk out of that off there so [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► people obviously like that kind of thing [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► but it does seem like less sporting [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► people who are willing to entertain that [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► type of stuff it becomes distasteful to [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► them when the situation has changed [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► Bobby Seale is still big audience for uh [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► and and there is there is still there's [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► still work to be done there visit for [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► example despite Apple's great success [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► you still constantly see the prediction [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► that Android will be the windows 2 to [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► iOS right just as Windows was the [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► creditor product but was you know spread [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► out farther and had bigger market share [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► and Android will have bigger market [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► share and even though iOS is technically [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► better uh it will still get pushed down [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► to some little niche by Android and you [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► see that sentiment like as if it's a [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► foregone conclusion everywhere so even [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► though Apple is still you know much [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► bigger than it used to be and much more [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► successful I think it's fair I think I [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► think it's still just you know [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► completely fair to [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► attack the people making that prediction [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► with the facts and say look it's the [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► situation is different this time I [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► myself over in an arc like this and it's [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► not it's not the same I know we all want [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► to think that the history tell history [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► tells us exactly how you know the future [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► is going to go but the situations are [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► different in some important ways and so [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► if people you know people write those [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► articles about Android inevitably [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► winning because of X Y & Z you know I [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► think the other side of that issue is [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► also worth airing and obviously Grouper [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► has one opinion on this and he's going [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► to write about he's not going to write [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► about something that he doesn't believe [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► in he's going to write what he believes [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► and supported with his many faxes again [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► this is from frank chai cheery he gave [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► me a pronunciation he said chai like tea [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► and then the word cheery love it good [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► job Frank and he was talking about [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► partisanship and some of his experiences [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► of this and he says that Charlie Peter [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► is the legendary editor of Washington [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► Monthly used to tell his writers play [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► Notre Dame in their articles what he [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► meant was that you should always take [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► your opponent's best arguments don't [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► play a half-baked Tech College play [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► Notre Dame take on the big boys he'll be [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► a stronger writer writer for it I think [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► this is great advice to anybody you know [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► money's basically saying is if you're [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► going to be if you're going to support [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► your position to have it to have the [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► most convincing to be the most [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► convincing with your with your position [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► obviously they don't do straw man which [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► is vision that nobody is taking and [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► knock them down but also like find out [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► the strongest arguments from the other [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► side and take those on to show that you [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► are acknowledging and have an answer for [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► the very strongest arguments of your [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► opposition this goes back to you know [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► what I'm saying about the advantages of [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► listening to partisans right who-who are [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► starting from particular premise and it [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► can never be shaken from it but you know [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► and I don't think that's a great thing [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► to be but they will seek out the best [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► arguments for their position and so [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► those are the ones that you should take [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► on because presumably they're they're [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► spending all their time trying to find [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► that anything and everything they can [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► the strongest possible arguments for [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► their position from which they're never [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► going to waver and so the the played [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► Notre Dame thing is good a good thing to [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► keep in mind and also a lots of people [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► have different definitions of partisan I [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► do I tried to preface the the plas [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► section about partisans by read the [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► dictionary definitions none of which [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► exactly agree with mine [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► it's just getting into semantics like we [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► all as long as we can all agree on what [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► we're talking about I was saying it's [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► the person who will who no fact will [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► change their opinion they have their [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► premise and they are never going to [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► reevaluate that premise based on the [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► changing facts no matter how they change [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► they'll until the day they die they will [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► always be a supporter of X and that's [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► the type of partisan I said I didn't [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► like that that's that's my idea of [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► partisanship other people saying [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► partisan is just what I was saying about [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► having passion horse now from the Gruber [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► Merlin Mann thing that I don't consider [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► parson shit but that's just semantics [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► it's just you know what word do we use [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► to label the bad thing and the good [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► thing so I don't think there's any [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► barrier to us to people discussing this [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► issue as long as we all know what we're [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► talking about when we say a particular [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► word so maybe an individual word is not [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► I don't like the fanboy label I like [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► partisan but obviously partisan people [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► have different definitions they use for [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► that do so if you're arguing with [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► somebody about this material agreeing on [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► your definitions otherwise you'll just [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► go in circles and it will not get [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► anywhere and I bring that up because [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► Frank uses the term hack to [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► differentiate between the honest [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► partisan and you know a dishonest one [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► one extra point in here is like the idea [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► that you are seeking out the best [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► arguments against and taking them on you [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► got to be careful with that because if [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► you're if you're not careful you'll [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► start to that concept starts to include [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► the premise that you have a side right [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► so I want it I want to find the best [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► arguments against and if you just if [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► you're constantly concentrating on that [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► you're never thinking about whether the [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► thing you're trying to defend is still [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► the case you know what I mean like just [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► you have to reevaluate if you get too [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► caught up and now I got to play Notre [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► Dame I got then then you give you end up [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► becoming that bad kind of partisan who's [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► spending all their time trying to shore [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► up their position without ever reading [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► their position to say look is this is [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► this really still correct regardless of [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► how well I think I can defend it is this [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► really still correct and I think that's [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► the end of the Gruber section it's kind [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► of weird that I end up having two shows [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► before he gets to have a single show I [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► don't know if I'll even talk about these [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► topics but uh it you know since the [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► schedule flips around he's actually [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► recording after this yeah this usually [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► he would we [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► have recorded on the Wednesday yeah but [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► no not not this week because he's uh [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► wherever he is on you know great some [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► random vacation Vegas again Vegas tuna [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► tell from the typos would he put it he [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► wrote Marcos and he wrote ma RC capital [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► I apostrophe s o but he did add the [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► apostrophe yes well it doesn't end in a [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► nest but things like you were talking [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► about Merlin but how you can tell when [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► Gruber in the Vegas it's yeah because of [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► the via the typos and what was the other [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► thing [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► there are usually typos most of the [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► sites if there's a mobile version of the [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► site it will he will link to the mobile [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► version of the site instead of the [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► regular because he's doing everything on [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► his iPhone has he done that recently I [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► haven't seen that it's been less ever [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► since I called him out on it and maybe [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► coincidentally that was around the time [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► that he stopped doing it in such an [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► obvious way alright so moving on to some [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► other follow-up Jim mirtha writes in [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► about our discussion of Twitter if it's [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► unified timeline notice yeah I like that [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► because I want to see my replies in [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► chronological order with the rest of the [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► things and I thought that that would be [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► something that more people would like [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► because I thought the only people who [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► would like reply separate would be the [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► people have so many replies because they [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► have so many followers that it would [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► just drown out their timeline and they'd [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► spend all the time scrolling past a [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► million people replying to them and I'd [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► you know I said well they have to be the [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► minority right well so Jim has a good [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► theory on why people might still want [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► the reply as separate uh and it's back [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► to like we don't really know we know how [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► we use Twitter but I think uh in terms [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► of like how many people you follow and [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► we followers you have we are outliers [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► probably because we have so many [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► followers relative to other people sure [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► and I think probably we follow fewer [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► people because we both do use it you [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► know like how many people do you follow [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► it's not thousands all right no um [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► what's the easiest way for me to tell [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► you that I'm following I am following a [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► whopping 190 people which I can't [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► believe I'm following that many but I [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► think that most of those people tweet [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► once a month you know yeah I've tried to [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► keep it under triple digits for a long [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► time but I finally broke and the reason [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► I broke was because a lot of the [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► accounts I follow have like one tweet [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► every three months right so Joe it's [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► okay when that happened so I follow 132 [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► and I can read them I think so but but [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► what are you saying is that [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► he says I follow many people on Twitter [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► only a few of whom I know personally and [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► since I'm not a celebrity Internet or [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► otherwise my followers consist almost [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► exclusively of the very small number of [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► users who I know personally I think this [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► is probably typical of many Twitter [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► users fewer followers generally means [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► fewer mentions and replies the unified [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► timeline map useful people like me but [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► if you aren't getting replies and [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► mentions fairly regularly it's probably [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► not a feature to weigh heavily in your [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► decision of which client to use so it's [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► basically saying most people don't get a [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► lot at replies because they're they're [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► consuming I like following celebrities [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► and like one or two people who also [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► don't use a Twitter heavily and I can [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► imagine that might be a big chunk of [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► Twitter users who you know I've seen [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► some statistics of I don't know if [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► people are just guessing over there with [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► like of all the people who are on [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► Twitter how many people actually post [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► something like once a day or once a week [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► over Terence it's just a huge number of [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► people who are following an astronaut or [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► whatever and they're not saying anything [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► and so they're not going to get any app [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► mentions because they're not they're not [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► like purchased they're consuming rather [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► than then producing content right and [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► for those people whether or not it has [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► unified timeline it's not going to be a [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► factor in their decision they're going [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► to pick a Twitter client based on [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► something else so that would also [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► explain why there's not this big outcry [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► for unified timeline because as far as [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► if you never get at replies unified 9 [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► unifies all the same to them right down [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► they don't care [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► Apple TV talked a little bit about guy [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► English's interesting taken what he [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► thinks Apple TV might look like am on [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► Kadeem rights in and a couple people [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► wrote in with this theory wouldn't it be [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► much simpler would it be more simple to [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► integrate the computer / box into the [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► screen and let that component be [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► removable for optional yearly hardware [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► upgrades this is a lot of people a lot [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► of people have this theory a lot of [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► people cited the duo doc you remember [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► that yes the duo doc was something that [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► you would uh you would take your I guess [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► power book wasn't it [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► power book duo and you would connect it [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► to a little doc and there was a little [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► thing that it would latch on to so that [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► you could have all of this is back in [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► the days way before bluetooth and even [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► most wireless mice and keyboards and you [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► would connect all your peripherals to it [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► so it was simply just you drop the thing [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► in the docket click the thing boom I [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► never had one of these so I needed I [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► didn't know people that did have them I [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► thought it was quite quite handy it [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► enveloped the computer was actually you [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► would slide it in like that like a piece [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► of bread going into a slot toaster and [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► on the [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► because the thing that you slid it into [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► was like this big hunk and Connect [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► proprietary connector that they would [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► you know put all your ports out it was [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► great because the do the PowerBook do it [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► was really skinny it was there was the [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► let the MacBook Air of its de recipe [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► power power book 100 was the first [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► MacBook Air of its day but the second [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► MacBook Air of Apple's kept top era was [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► the power book door really small really [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► thin and it could be really thin because [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► it didn't have to have any of the stuff [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► that was on the docks of a floppy drive [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► and all that other stuff and then so you [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► get this really nice portable computer [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► that you could use but when you got back [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► to your desk you could slide that sucker [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► in there and have your full-fledged Mac [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► experience with your monitor and [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► everything it was nice I know in [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► academia a lot of a lot of people when I [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► went to college a lot of the professor's [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► had that because they loved that the [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► ability to walk around with that laptop [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► and then have the big setup when they [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► went back and what I replied to a few of [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► these people who I replied to and before [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► I gave up replying to all the people who [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► suggested this was that I really don't [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► think that Apple is going to produce [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► anything like the duo doc in the near [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► future and there's a couple of reasons I [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► think that one the the fact that they [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► haven't done anything like that in a [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► long time the closest thing I can think [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► of that has all the disadvantages of the [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► duo docker is like the iPod connector [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► the dock connector and I've already [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► complained about that but the main thing [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► is like when it came time to do [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► something like that with their modern [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► products which is basically the MacBook [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► Air they rather than doing a dock they [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► they put it all over thunderbolt and a [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► little power connector so they did the [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► little y-you know the split cable that [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► comes out of the back of a thunderbolt [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► display right it has the power for your [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► laptop and also a thunderbolt then [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► proxies all the firewire and Ethernet [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► and all but other stuff they could have [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► just as easily made a doc to have that [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► stuff but I it just seems like like [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► those dock connectors are just big and [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► ugly and proprietary and yes Apple has [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► been known to make proprietary [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► connectors in the past but it trend [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► seems to be away from that they used to [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► have bright airy connectors for [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► everything or if not proprietary then at [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► least obscure but like the new bus slot [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► which it wasn't proprietary think Sun [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► use new bus to but it might as well been [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► provider because nobody else was using [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► everyone else using yeah ISA and what [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► was the IBM thing micro channel or [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► whatever and you had a DB for the [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► keyboards and all you know every [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► connector was custom out of the apples [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► printer ports even lots of things were [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► physically compatible but not [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► electrically compatible but the trend or [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► with Apple has been to go away from [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► those and go toward standard even even [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► in you know the the jobs to error when [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► they did the ADB port which carried [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► display power for your display and USB [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► and was firing on there too and remember [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► that was what over one connector they [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► moved away from that they went to DVI a [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► lot of people were annoyed this is [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► likely how they love the elegance of [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► this this Apple display thing but Apple [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► said no you know I know it's less [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► elegant they have DVI and we have to do [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► this double data rate DVI and all those [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► stuff but we don't want to have a [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► brighter connection anymore they went to [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► USB instead of all their old stuff [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► Thunderbolt is even though Apple seems [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► to be ahead on it it's not apples Apple [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► didn't make it up it's an Intel standard [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► anybody can use it it's you know so I [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► don't think they want another [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► proprietary connector I've complained [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► about the iPod document connector many [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► times because its proprietary it's [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► fragile it's got lots of pins I would [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► not want something here I'm saying was [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► saying ADB nut ADC yes those two [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► separate things Apple desktop bus an [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► Apple display connector anyway the the [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► dock connector on the iPod has this [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► really important property of lock in for [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► iPod peripherals and everything but I [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► still think was a bad idea because I [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► don't I think cereal is more the way to [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► go I think if Apple if Thunderbolt [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► existed before the iPod took off [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► Apple would have use Thunderbolt the [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► very least use Thunderbolt as its bus [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► for for iPods assuming the the [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► connectors could be shrunk down to the [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► point where they're where they could fit [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► everything in and not have any heat [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► issues or whatever I don't like big wide [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► connectors lots of pins and a dock [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► connector that carries lots of stuff [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► over it especially if it's a private [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► area ends up being as big wide parallel [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► connected with lots of pins on it so I [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► think it Apple does not would not make [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► something that like you slid an Apple TV [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► box into and behind it was this big [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► honking pin now maybe they can do [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► something where you slide the Apple TV [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► in and behind it is just a thunderbolt [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► connector and power or like it just [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► plugs into a bunch of standard ports but [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► I don't I don't see Apple doing that I [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► think they like they're like no wires [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► best of all one skinny little wire [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► second best and big honkin proprietary [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► connectors not at all for their desktops [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► and laptops that's that's my prediction [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► assuming they do anything like this at [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► all I mean they they have an actual [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► television set and need to connect it [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► so Gabriel Moreno writes in to say have [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► you considered a we like pointer to [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► interact with TV in a way similar to how [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► we interact with a stylus or a [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► touchscreen something that I haven't [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► seen many he will bring it up but as [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► someone who uses a Wii I have thought [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► about it the Wii is interesting because [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► they went through a couple of different [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► phases in terms of how the software [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► works so the hardware when they we [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► originally launched was this thing that [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► accelerometers in it so we could tell [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► like which the way was tilting tilting [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► up to a point [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► until the accelerometers maxed out next [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► out and then it had an IR emitter on top [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► of your TV and there was an IR receiver [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► in the Wiimote and so by pointing the [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► receiver at the emitters it could tell [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► kind of where you were pointing on the [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► screen assuming many other factors when [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► an IR is not the best thing in the world [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► because like say you had really bright [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► sunlight coming through a window [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► directly at the IR receiver on your Wii [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► mote it could get confused it can [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► confuse by certain kinds of bright [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► lights and so a little bit later in the [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► development of the Wii they added the [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► Wii MotionPlus [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► which was this gyroscope it could it is [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► not unlike an accelerometer was just [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► like tilts to a certain point and then [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► it's maxed out a gyroscope is supposed [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► to be able to help what the orientation [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► is at 3:00 in 3d space so you could put [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► it any angle you wanted in theory the [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► gyroscope knew which direction was level [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► and it would say you are this many [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► degrees off this axis and this many [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► degrees off this axis and they they can [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► get confused if you shake the thing real [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► hard and you have to reset them a lot [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► stuff but they added and then they [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► integrated Wii MotionPlus [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► into the Wii mote so now you have [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► accelerometers and gyroscopes and the IR [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► thing now a lot of games that require [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► you to point at the screen and shoot at [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► something early on they use the IR [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► emitter so look at the early Metroid [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► Metroid Metroid Prime 3 you would point [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► at the screen and it would tell where [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► you're pointing based on the the 2 IR [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► emitters and the receiver and figure out [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► where you're pointing on the screen uh [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► and they had to use do lots of software [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► smoothing because if you just literally [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► showed the actual values of whether [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► Wiimote thought you know where the [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► system thought that we went was pointing [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► at any instant in time you could see the [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► big jumps and stutters and everything so [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► they would smooth it out with software [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► to try to make it a smooth experience [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► but it was still kind of twitchy [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► later and a lot of games did similar [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► things with us then [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► they're first-person shooters and stuff [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► like that later games seem to be moving [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► more towards using the gyroscopes to [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► figure out where you're pointing so it [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► actually doesn't even matter if you're [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► pointing at the screen well I guess it [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► kind of does because the gyroscope is [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► aligned of sort of way but it's telling [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► it's basically looking at how how far is [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► your Wiimote tilted so if you want to if [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► you want to move your your cursor up on [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► the screen you tilt the Wii mode up and [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► the system is not figuring out where the [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► Wii mote is pointing like literally if [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► you shot a laser out of the Wii mode do [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► it hit that part of your screen maybe it [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► wouldn't maybe would actually go over [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► your TV screen but it's clear when [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► you're holding it go up go down the left [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► go right and that's really what people [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► just want they just want a way to [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► control the thing not so much [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► oh I'm pointing exactly at the corner of [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► the screen and if I had a laser pointer [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► taped to my wii that's exactly where the [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► cursor should be and the gyroscope tends [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► to be less jittery and less subject to [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► environmental factors then the IR thing [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► is maybe these a combination I'm not [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► quite sure they just like for a modern [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► game like Skyward Sword for example so [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► when I think of a remote that would be [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► like a Wii I think of using the current [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► best practice which is go just go with [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► the gyroscope and I think does the Roku [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► have that someone in the chat room I [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► know I think there are TV attached boxes [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► that already do this that they give you [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► a little remote thing to hold in your [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► hand that uses gyroscopes or [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► accelerometers or something similar not [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► an IR emitter to direct the cursor on [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► the screen as an easier way of going [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► down down down right select up up select [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► down you know all that business with [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► your own it's a little bit easier if you [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► can just point and it works really [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► surprisingly well you can do lots of [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► software trucks to make the cursor kind [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► of stick to something like and the [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► skywards in Zelda Skyward Sword when [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► you're they put up a bunch of buttons on [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► the screen that you want to select you [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► can just kind of flick the remote in the [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► direction of the button you want upper [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► left lower right you know and and it [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► will kind of stick to it instead of [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► making you ain't exactly for the button [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► and be frustrated because you're just [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► off a little bit right right [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► someone from saying that Roku is use a [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► d-pad and but they don't know about the [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► fancy Angry Bird well I think I might be [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► one of the Roku's they use is ah anyway [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► I think that is a good idea [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► I'm sure Apple has the very least tried [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► that out because from what we all hear [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► about what goes on inside Apple they're [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► going to try a bunch of ideas they're [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► going to decide which one is best but [TS]