39: Quasimodo Backpack


00:00:04   you're listening to hypercritical weekly [TS]

00:00:07   talkshow ruminating on exactly what is [TS]

00:00:09   wrong in the world of Apple related [TS]

00:00:10   technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

00:00:12   so perfect that it can't be utterly [TS]

00:00:15   destroyed by my co-host John siracusa [TS]

00:00:18   I'm Dan benjamin today is october 21st [TS]

00:00:21   2011 this is episode number 39 we would [TS]

00:00:25   like to say a quick thank you to our [TS]

00:00:27   sponsors handle our studios makers of [TS]

00:00:29   game minder and reminder Shopify comm [TS]

00:00:32   the most elegant customizable affordable [TS]

00:00:35   ecommerce platform in the world and [TS]

00:00:38   source bits calm these guys make [TS]

00:00:40   software for every platform out there [TS]

00:00:44   are you doing John just fine how's your [TS]

00:00:48   week been same as always [TS]

00:00:51   same as always productive productive at [TS]

00:00:53   work oh yeah well this is a good show [TS]

00:01:02   that's what you do a talk show [TS]

00:01:05   that's a talk show line you guys switch [TS]

00:01:07   modes you're in hyper critical mode well [TS]

00:01:08   you're not talking I'm getting ready [TS]

00:01:11   oh you know what you know what happened [TS]

00:01:13   ladies and gentlemen is that I was [TS]

00:01:14   actually on time today I actually I was [TS]

00:01:17   sitting here waiting for you to call and [TS]

00:01:18   exactly noon uh John's phone rang and [TS]

00:01:21   he's just so not used to us running [TS]

00:01:23   ahead of schedule a TV shows actually [TS]

00:01:25   12:01 according to now I right here on [TS]

00:01:27   this on this skype box I can tell you [TS]

00:01:29   right here is it synched with time [TS]

00:01:31   that'll calm three minutes and 20 [TS]

00:01:33   seconds we've been recording so one [TS]

00:01:36   quite 11:01 yet alright or 12:01 in your [TS]

00:01:41   time alright so we ready now I'm ready [TS]

00:01:44   recording it's already started man yeah [TS]

00:01:46   you usually do the intro I already [TS]

00:01:48   required you recorded it but you didn't [TS]

00:01:50   tell me I was so ready for you this time [TS]

00:01:51   I'm like got all my ducks in a row this [TS]

00:01:53   time John's not gonna know what happened [TS]

00:01:55   I switched back to show bot that I mean [TS]

00:01:57   to look at titles for faith show and [TS]

00:01:58   everything I'm not editing any of this [TS]

00:02:01   out either right marker [TS]

00:02:07   for those who don't know what we're [TS]

00:02:08   talking about you can listen to episode [TS]

00:02:09   5 of geek Friday on 5x5 and you'll know [TS]

00:02:13   you'll know everything in their haste [TS]

00:02:15   look I cross promoted the show there you [TS]

00:02:17   go boo synergy alright follow up follow [TS]

00:02:21   up all from last week the first item of [TS]

00:02:25   follow up at the very beginning of last [TS]

00:02:26   show and a similar type of tangential [TS]

00:02:29   not really related to anything segment [TS]

00:02:31   although I think it was spawned by you I [TS]

00:02:33   remember how it came up anyway we were [TS]

00:02:35   talking about flu shots and stuff and I [TS]

00:02:39   got a couple complaints about that and [TS]

00:02:41   one listener in particular was very [TS]

00:02:43   angry about that segment of the show you [TS]

00:02:46   had asked me we talked about flu shots [TS]

00:02:48   or our kids are getting them or whatever [TS]

00:02:50   and you'd asked me if you thought it was [TS]

00:02:51   worthwhile and I started pondering and [TS]

00:02:53   thinking out loud like oh no well I used [TS]

00:02:55   to not get flu shots and now I do but I [TS]

00:02:57   get colds all the time and I was saying [TS]

00:02:59   you don't get pretentious yeah I'm cold [TS]

00:03:01   and while I'm talking out loud you're [TS]

00:03:03   you kept asking me about whether I [TS]

00:03:05   thought flu shots were rented the cold [TS]

00:03:07   and I was just ignoring you I was having [TS]

00:03:10   moved on to the next segment and and [TS]

00:03:12   then this particular listener was saying [TS]

00:03:15   are you trying to say that the flu shot [TS]

00:03:16   prevents a cold [TS]

00:03:17   no I did two of us were talking past [TS]

00:03:19   each other in that segment and it wasn't [TS]

00:03:20   clear to me during the segment when I'm [TS]

00:03:22   back and went back and listened to it [TS]

00:03:23   you could see how someone might get that [TS]

00:03:24   impression so I got that same impression [TS]

00:03:26   right and I didn't understand what you [TS]

00:03:28   were asking about because like what now [TS]

00:03:29   so what I was talking about was it is [TS]

00:03:33   the flu shot worthwhile I was thinking [TS]

00:03:34   like overall does the winter season do I [TS]

00:03:38   feel better or worse during the winter [TS]

00:03:40   season when they get a flu shot or not [TS]

00:03:41   and what I was getting at was regardless [TS]

00:03:42   whether or not I get a flu shot in other [TS]

00:03:44   words regardless of whether or not I get [TS]

00:03:45   the flu this season is dominated for me [TS]

00:03:48   by a series of annoying Colts which is [TS]

00:03:50   entirely different family of viruses and [TS]

00:03:52   as long as did with the flu shot and so [TS]

00:03:54   I said well when I didn't get the flu [TS]

00:03:55   shot I felt miserable the whole winter [TS]

00:03:57   and when I did get it I felt miserable [TS]

00:03:58   the whole winter so maybe the flu shot [TS]

00:04:01   is protecting me from getting the flu [TS]

00:04:03   but I felt like the flu was not the [TS]

00:04:06   dominant factor in my happiness during [TS]

00:04:10   cold and flu season so that's what I was [TS]

00:04:12   getting at so if people who are confused [TS]

00:04:13   the flu shot does not protect you from a [TS]

00:04:15   cold and I also said that it practicum [TS]

00:04:18   one particular strain of flu would [TS]

00:04:20   actually that [TS]

00:04:21   apparently put several different strains [TS]

00:04:22   in the flu shot some people said three [TS]

00:04:23   some people said five some of the chat [TS]

00:04:26   rooms saying ooh felt better because you [TS]

00:04:28   didn't get the flu I don't know I used [TS]

00:04:29   to not get the flu shot ever and did I [TS]

00:04:32   get a flu during those times at people [TS]

00:04:34   so if you got the flu you wouldn't know [TS]

00:04:35   it maybe I just never got it maybe I'm [TS]

00:04:37   not susceptible to it maybe my colds are [TS]

00:04:40   very bad and I have difficulty [TS]

00:04:42   differentiating the symptoms I was just [TS]

00:04:44   comparing like before the time when I [TS]

00:04:45   used to get flu shots because I never [TS]

00:04:46   got them before I kids once you get kids [TS]

00:04:48   you kind of get into that flu shot cycle [TS]

00:04:50   where the kids are getting him and you [TS]

00:04:51   might as well get them too and [TS]

00:04:52   everything so anyway I just wanted to [TS]

00:04:56   clarify that point so everyone is clear [TS]

00:04:58   on the the efficacy of the flu shot I've [TS]

00:05:01   heard that if you if you don't get a lot [TS]

00:05:05   of colds if you only get one over a year [TS]

00:05:06   or two that it'll be way worse than if [TS]

00:05:08   you get them a lot good because I get [TS]

00:05:10   calls constantly and the symptoms are [TS]

00:05:12   very similar to flu symptoms it depends [TS]

00:05:16   on what age you are and everything so if [TS]

00:05:19   you go to a doctor they're not gonna [TS]

00:05:20   know they're not the same well I don't [TS]

00:05:22   know so you're right there some that are [TS]

00:05:24   all specific to the flu like it but if [TS]

00:05:27   you have the flu you feel like you got [TS]

00:05:28   run over by a truck instantaneously yeah [TS]

00:05:31   well it depends different people have [TS]

00:05:32   different effects like something gets a [TS]

00:05:33   body aches and you just feel like you [TS]

00:05:35   can't get up some people children in [TS]

00:05:37   particular can get nauseated and [TS]

00:05:39   vomiting and everything I get what [TS]

00:05:40   usually doesn't happen with the cold you [TS]

00:05:43   know call it here's how you know cold [TS]

00:05:45   always starts with a sore throat dun dun [TS]

00:05:50   see I don't sometimes my colds last [TS]

00:05:53   winter I didn't I just had the post [TS]

00:05:56   nasal drip thing which is part of the [TS]

00:05:57   cold symptoms because I think those [TS]

00:05:58   viruses take root in your nasal I'm [TS]

00:06:00   talking about things I shouldn't be [TS]

00:06:01   talked about but anyway yeah the sore [TS]

00:06:03   throat you're feeling is not like strep [TS]

00:06:05   throat is an actual sore throat where [TS]

00:06:06   that infects that region of your throat [TS]

00:06:08   but this the post nasal drip thing is [TS]

00:06:10   where you're getting a cold and it's [TS]

00:06:12   making your throat feel sore because [TS]

00:06:13   that anyway I don't want talk about [TS]

00:06:14   germs right well I mean you and again [TS]

00:06:16   you also are susceptible to [TS]

00:06:17   techno-organic viruses most of us are [TS]

00:06:19   not so so what else has been going on [TS]

00:06:22   one other fog yeah so Star Wars blue [TS]

00:06:24   rays next topic how did you get these I [TS]

00:06:27   mentioned a couple shows ago that I was [TS]

00:06:29   debating about whether was gonna get [TS]

00:06:31   them and I said I probably would because [TS]

00:06:32   the [TS]

00:06:34   I wanted to see the special features and [TS]

00:06:35   I wanted to have a high-definition [TS]

00:06:37   version of Empire Strikes Back because [TS]

00:06:39   it was the least adulterated of the [TS]

00:06:40   special edition films and it is also my [TS]

00:06:42   favorite even though they messed up the [TS]

00:06:44   color balance and a few other things [TS]

00:06:46   like well this they didn't change the [TS]

00:06:47   content in Annoying ways and a figure be [TS]

00:06:48   worth having and I had to buy the stupid [TS]

00:06:50   set that had all of the movies including [TS]

00:06:52   the prequels in it just because the [TS]

00:06:53   special features are not included in the [TS]

00:06:55   original trilogy only set which was [TS]

00:06:56   really annoying so that I think last [TS]

00:06:58   week I was complaining about the special [TS]

00:07:00   features that they put it in a little [TS]

00:07:01   window frame and had the surrounding [TS]

00:07:03   stuff and that was annoying and I'm [TS]

00:07:05   still going through the special features [TS]

00:07:06   this is just from watching these these [TS]

00:07:09   special features of the thing I still [TS]

00:07:11   can actually watch any actual movies and [TS]

00:07:12   during the special feature segments [TS]

00:07:13   they're talking about like the making of [TS]

00:07:15   Empire or stuff like that and they were [TS]

00:07:17   show segments from Empire Strikes Back [TS]

00:07:18   but they would show the high-definition [TS]

00:07:20   version so here I am getting tiny little [TS]

00:07:23   snippets of the new high-definition [TS]

00:07:25   version of Empire still having not [TS]

00:07:26   watched it and they would show a snippet [TS]

00:07:28   like they'd be talking about the Hoth [TS]

00:07:29   battle she scene and they would show up [TS]

00:07:31   a two-second clip from the hoff battle [TS]

00:07:33   scene while someone talks over it and [TS]

00:07:34   they showed it to second clip I'm like [TS]

00:07:35   wait a second what is that gun turret [TS]

00:07:37   doing there like there was a new gun you [TS]

00:07:40   know though the originate so many times [TS]

00:07:43   that even something as subtle as just a [TS]

00:07:45   small gun turret in the background is [TS]

00:07:46   Right problematic I shouldn't be there [TS]

00:07:49   and I rewound it I looked at it again [TS]

00:07:50   and it looked like they added a CG gun [TS]

00:07:53   turret to this particular scene with [TS]

00:07:54   like a little animation where it's like [TS]

00:07:55   rotating or something and and then they [TS]

00:07:59   showed another scene with like a bounty [TS]

00:08:00   hunter scene and they were talking about [TS]

00:08:01   how Boba Fett and how that character [TS]

00:08:03   came to be and stuff like that and they [TS]

00:08:04   show Boba Fett and showed one of his [TS]

00:08:05   scenes and and he says he's no good to [TS]

00:08:08   me dead [TS]

00:08:08   and it wasn't Boba Fett's voice it was a [TS]

00:08:12   stupid Jango Fett's voice someone from [TS]

00:08:14   the chat room tell me whether the Jango [TS]

00:08:16   Fett actor is from New Zealand or [TS]

00:08:18   Australia I'm sorry that I can't tell a [TS]

00:08:20   difference so they change Boba Fett's [TS]

00:08:23   voice to be the Jango Fett voice which [TS]

00:08:25   is horrible and they added a bunch of [TS]

00:08:26   stuff and then they were showing some [TS]

00:08:27   other scenes but just a DAT Walker's [TS]

00:08:28   moving and stuff in the the sides of the [TS]

00:08:31   a DAT and other metal grey metal things [TS]

00:08:34   look like they had a bad Photoshop D [TS]

00:08:36   speckle filter applied to them like they [TS]

00:08:38   look too smooth and I said did they did [TS]

00:08:40   they redo all the ads and CG and replace [TS]

00:08:42   them do they just do they just put new [TS]

00:08:45   textures on the outside of them and like [TS]

00:08:46   rotoscope it [TS]

00:08:47   they just apply some sort of filter it [TS]

00:08:49   just looked off so apparently the last [TS]

00:08:52   time I've seen the last time I saw and [TS]

00:08:55   Bryce Trackbacks must have been these [TS]

00:08:57   special editions on VHS or something [TS]

00:08:58   like last time I saw the special edition [TS]

00:09:00   version yeah I don't think this stuff [TS]

00:09:02   was in those special editions certainly [TS]

00:09:04   it wasn't high-def and I don't think the [TS]

00:09:06   extra gun turret was there and certainly [TS]

00:09:08   they didn't add the Jango Fett voice [TS]

00:09:09   because that those movies hadn't been [TS]

00:09:11   made at the time I watched it so they [TS]

00:09:12   are further adulterating Empire Strikes [TS]

00:09:15   Back maybe that was already like the [TS]

00:09:16   DVDs to I don't know but this is very [TS]

00:09:19   upsetting and so I'm even more glad that [TS]

00:09:21   I got hold of the over those things [TS]

00:09:24   called the despecialized edition which [TS]

00:09:27   are 720p versions of the movies that are [TS]

00:09:31   trying to be as faithful as possible to [TS]

00:09:33   the original obviously the originals [TS]

00:09:34   were only available in standard def at [TS]

00:09:36   this time right so they had take [TS]

00:09:39   standard def and they tried to clean it [TS]

00:09:40   up and blown up to 720p it's a little [TS]

00:09:42   bit fuzzy it certainly doesn't look [TS]

00:09:43   high-def it's not as crisp as these [TS]

00:09:45   blu-rays are but everything looks the [TS]

00:09:47   right way the Darth Baras lightsabers [TS]

00:09:49   pink both has voices the right way and [TS]

00:09:51   there are no weird CG things added where [TS]

00:09:53   they don't need to be so kind of [TS]

00:09:55   disappointing I'm speaking of this [TS]

00:10:00   appointment front apparently the [TS]

00:10:03   documentary movie which I wanted to see [TS]

00:10:06   forever which was only shown at film [TS]

00:10:07   festivals maybe last year maybe was the [TS]

00:10:09   year before that maybe I've been waiting [TS]

00:10:10   for two years it seems like a long time [TS]

00:10:12   but this movie is called the people [TS]

00:10:13   versus George Lucas and it's a [TS]

00:10:15   documentary about exactly what it sounds [TS]

00:10:18   like it's about alright someone goes [TS]

00:10:19   around with the camera crew and talks to [TS]

00:10:21   geeks and other people who are angry at [TS]

00:10:23   George Lucas I'm like this this movie [TS]

00:10:24   was made for me why can't I see it [TS]

00:10:28   couldn't find it anywhere wasn't [TS]

00:10:29   available netflix couldn't buy it on DVD [TS]

00:10:31   couldn't get it was only in the film [TS]

00:10:32   festival circuit so finally it is coming [TS]

00:10:36   out on DVD I think this week so you can [TS]

00:10:37   go to amazon.com I should put a link in [TS]

00:10:39   the show notes to the People vs George [TS]

00:10:41   Lucas I haven't seen it yet but I assume [TS]

00:10:43   I will enjoy it one more bit here last [TS]

00:10:49   show we talked about the TiVo premiere [TS]

00:10:51   Elite his new series for upgrade of TiVo [TS]

00:10:55   and upgrade to the series for TiVo [TS]

00:10:57   architecture and I was quoting from an [TS]

00:11:00   article that I'd found [TS]

00:11:01   linked to a forum post and I had looked [TS]

00:11:03   at both of those things but I hadn't [TS]

00:11:05   done was paged through the entire forum [TS]

00:11:06   thread apparently the article is written [TS]

00:11:08   based on the first page or so of the [TS]

00:11:10   forum thread but if you keep paging [TS]

00:11:11   through it [TS]

00:11:12   there are many Corrections offered so in [TS]

00:11:14   last week's show I said that the the new [TS]

00:11:16   TiVo premiere elite comes to double the [TS]

00:11:18   RAM of the previous version apparently [TS]

00:11:20   it does not the people in the forum [TS]

00:11:22   thread got confused about megabits [TS]

00:11:23   versus megabytes or gigabytes versus [TS]

00:11:25   gigabytes when looking at the part [TS]

00:11:28   numbers on the RAM so apparently it has [TS]

00:11:30   the same amount of RAM as the other one [TS]

00:11:32   and I think it also still has the same [TS]

00:11:34   CPU and everything so I was trying to [TS]

00:11:36   find an explanation of why why it's so [TS]

00:11:39   much faster from the people's reports [TS]

00:11:41   that they use the menus and the menus [TS]

00:11:42   feel faster and it is running a newer [TS]

00:11:44   version of the software and supposedly [TS]

00:11:45   is compiled with the newer version of [TS]

00:11:46   the compiler but there's still the [TS]

00:11:48   outstanding question is is the tebow [TS]

00:11:50   premier elite faster because the [TS]

00:11:51   hardware is faster or is it just faster [TS]

00:11:54   because it has a new version of the [TS]

00:11:55   software and there's no definitive [TS]

00:11:59   answer to that yet so I'm curious like [TS]

00:12:02   if you wait a year dip will the regular [TS]

00:12:06   TiVo premier get the new version of the [TS]

00:12:07   software and it will be speedy or - I [TS]

00:12:08   don't know I was and I was further [TS]

00:12:12   frustrated by the fact that the tebow [TS]

00:12:15   premier elite still has no built-in [TS]

00:12:16   Wi-Fi what century is this they're [TS]

00:12:18   they're giving you a box that they said [TS]

00:12:21   they want they want you to buy their [TS]

00:12:22   their third-party thing yes say it's [TS]

00:12:25   like sixty bucks or whatever I don't [TS]

00:12:26   just build it in but they took out the [TS]

00:12:28   over-the-air HD support the TiVo premier [TS]

00:12:31   used to be able to decode over-the-air [TS]

00:12:32   HD signals and record them and [TS]

00:12:34   everything so they took out all those [TS]

00:12:35   supporting chips put in a Wi-Fi chip [TS]

00:12:37   it's got cost two bucks stick it in [TS]

00:12:39   there please it's it's ridiculous so [TS]

00:12:41   yeah you have to stuff to buy the dongle [TS]

00:12:43   so I'm still taking a wait-and-see [TS]

00:12:45   attitude with the Premier elite I'll let [TS]

00:12:48   it stew for a little longer before I [TS]

00:12:49   consider buying one and shifting things [TS]

00:12:52   around in my house yeah and finally Siri [TS]

00:12:56   we talked a lot about Syria in the past [TS]

00:12:58   few episodes and we got a lot of [TS]

00:13:00   feedback on that did you put these in [TS]

00:13:01   the show notes or dude I don't even [TS]

00:13:02   remember any but I think I put that one [TS]

00:13:04   in there there's a bunch of Siri links [TS]

00:13:06   there is a one for how Siri works which [TS]

00:13:09   is kind of inappropriate name is that [TS]

00:13:11   someone speculating about how it works [TS]

00:13:12   in terms of how the different components [TS]

00:13:13   work you don't write [TS]

00:13:14   get recognized you speak sends it off to [TS]

00:13:16   a server somewhere after it's translated [TS]

00:13:18   in as natural language processing but I [TS]

00:13:19   think it's mostly speculative there's a [TS]

00:13:21   good blog post from Kieran he really [TS]

00:13:24   sorry from angling your name Kieran [TS]

00:13:26   Healy in our chat room about Syrian [TS]

00:13:30   practice what Siri is like for him to [TS]

00:13:33   use and it goes through a whole bunch of [TS]

00:13:34   situations where stuff that you would [TS]

00:13:38   think stuff the mumps some people might [TS]

00:13:40   think would work ends up not working so [TS]

00:13:44   for example I have to use the exact [TS]

00:13:47   wording from these examples here because [TS]

00:13:48   it sounds too vague if you don't so if [TS]

00:13:53   you make let's see let's find a good [TS]

00:13:56   example if you make a calendar entry [TS]

00:14:03   that says Kieran volunteers at school [TS]

00:14:05   right that's that's the name of your [TS]

00:14:07   thing your entry in the calendar and if [TS]

00:14:08   you ask Siri when do I volunteer at [TS]

00:14:10   school it has no idea what you're [TS]

00:14:11   talking about if you ask it when does [TS]

00:14:13   Kieran volunteer at school no idea [TS]

00:14:14   they're just as Google searches for like [TS]

00:14:16   I found eleven schools nearby all right [TS]

00:14:19   if you say when is Kieran volunteers at [TS]

00:14:24   school which sounds unnatural but [TS]

00:14:26   apparently that's the phrasing that it [TS]

00:14:27   wants then it will find it and it's a [TS]

00:14:34   similar example if you make an [TS]

00:14:35   appointment that just says dentist which [TS]

00:14:37   is very similar to the appointments I [TS]

00:14:38   tried to make my things on my calendar [TS]

00:14:40   is like one word launch but you know 2 [TS]

00:14:41   p.m. dentist right if you have a dentist [TS]

00:14:44   you can't say when is my dentist [TS]

00:14:45   appointment it won't find that and I [TS]

00:14:47   guess even worse in this example his one [TS]

00:14:49   that says when does lorry traveled to [TS]

00:14:52   New York right if you have an event [TS]

00:14:54   called travel to New York it doesn't [TS]

00:14:56   doesn't find it so you say when do I [TS]

00:14:58   travel to New York still isn't find it [TS]

00:15:00   when do I go to New York no good even in [TS]

00:15:03   this case when you say when is travel to [TS]

00:15:05   New York which is exactly the the [TS]

00:15:07   construction that worked before man it [TS]

00:15:09   still doesn't work it's a Google search [TS]

00:15:11   all these examples would work with a [TS]

00:15:14   human right because at the context of [TS]

00:15:16   say look is there any events anywhere [TS]

00:15:18   and the near future that anything to do [TS]

00:15:20   with New York like a human would figure [TS]

00:15:21   it out but Siri does not and the fact [TS]

00:15:24   that Siri does so well in so many other [TS]

00:15:26   contexts can make even people who [TS]

00:15:28   and that it's not actually real AI [TS]

00:15:32   expectations these things working and if [TS]

00:15:34   you if you end up having to say those [TS]

00:15:36   four different phrasings [TS]

00:15:37   and doesn't work all those times that's [TS]

00:15:38   when you start to question like I'm [TS]

00:15:40   actually being more efficient or numb [TS]

00:15:42   and now am I playing a game by playing a [TS]

00:15:44   game with this Siri thing but don't you [TS]

00:15:46   think John that it's just a matter of [TS]

00:15:48   time before the refinements and [TS]

00:15:51   enhancements of that get better I mean [TS]

00:15:54   right now we're starting with something [TS]

00:15:56   that's you know very very new [TS]

00:15:58   I won't don't you expect it whether it's [TS]

00:16:00   six months or a year from now two years [TS]

00:16:02   from now that little little things like [TS]

00:16:05   the way that you phrase it won't won't [TS]

00:16:07   they figure that out won't they update [TS]

00:16:09   it won't they make sure in five to ten [TS]

00:16:10   years is nothing to ten is that you're [TS]

00:16:12   saying I always tell you fine again no [TS]

00:16:14   whenever you ask any question about AI [TS]

00:16:16   they say yeah in five to ten years we'll [TS]

00:16:18   have a statistical and they've been [TS]

00:16:20   saying that since 1972 [TS]

00:16:22   all right well see what I think Siri is [TS]

00:16:24   more like as game development so in game [TS]

00:16:26   development you have a lot of similar [TS]

00:16:27   situations or you want to have enemies [TS]

00:16:29   in a game exhibiting intelligent [TS]

00:16:32   behavior and providing you with the good [TS]

00:16:33   with a good battle and with the advent [TS]

00:16:35   of multiplayer gaming in the past two [TS]

00:16:36   decades this has become less important [TS]

00:16:38   but it's still there the pathfinding how [TS]

00:16:40   they work as a group how they react to [TS]

00:16:41   your actions the way game developers do [TS]

00:16:45   it is they cheat [TS]

00:16:46   that's what game development is all [TS]

00:16:47   about it's like moviemaking you have to [TS]

00:16:49   you have to cheat you have to do [TS]

00:16:51   something that's actually really very [TS]

00:16:53   simple especially in game development [TS]

00:16:54   you have very little cpu resources and [TS]

00:16:56   stuff to spare because you're using it [TS]

00:16:57   on all the other stuff that you're doing [TS]

00:16:58   so you can't do some sort of deep [TS]

00:17:01   academic AI that thinks for 20 seconds [TS]

00:17:03   you have like 160 milliseconds to make [TS]

00:17:05   all your AI decisions for all your [TS]

00:17:06   enemies on the screen or whatever they [TS]

00:17:09   come up with heuristics and things that [TS]

00:17:12   are not easy for you as the player to [TS]

00:17:14   figure out what's going on but that make [TS]

00:17:16   the enemies appear to be like a little [TS]

00:17:18   bit more intelligent and that's what [TS]

00:17:20   series got to end up doing because [TS]

00:17:22   that's the actual solution solving the [TS]

00:17:25   real problem like actually making [TS]

00:17:26   something that understands what you're [TS]

00:17:28   talking about is way way way harder than [TS]

00:17:29   anything that's going to happen probably [TS]

00:17:31   in our lifetimes it's the problem that [TS]

00:17:33   have been worked on academia for all of [TS]

00:17:34   our lives and will continue long after [TS]

00:17:36   we're gone and it's really really hard [TS]

00:17:38   but you can make something that use [TS]

00:17:41   you know cheats and hacks and other [TS]

00:17:43   things that are not that nothing to do [TS]

00:17:45   with the way the human thinks or and [TS]

00:17:47   really don't exhibit any sort of [TS]

00:17:48   understanding in our sense but they give [TS]

00:17:50   you the right answer Watson is a great [TS]

00:17:51   example that Watson has no idea what [TS]

00:17:53   that it's doing doesn't have any [TS]

00:17:54   awareness of you know it's a bunch of [TS]

00:17:56   really smart heuristics that happens to [TS]

00:17:58   win the game of Jeopardy right but if [TS]

00:18:01   you pose just an arbitrary question to [TS]

00:18:03   Watson or if you replace Siri with [TS]

00:18:06   Watson it would probably do better [TS]

00:18:08   because Watson has way more computing [TS]

00:18:10   resources but it would probably be [TS]

00:18:11   slower because Watson is a little bit [TS]

00:18:13   slower than Syria I think but those type [TS]

00:18:15   of hacks and cheats where we're not [TS]

00:18:17   trying to make something that's [TS]

00:18:18   intelligent we're not trying to make [TS]

00:18:20   something that's even as smart as a [TS]

00:18:21   cockroach like we're not we're not doing [TS]

00:18:24   that we're trying to make something that [TS]

00:18:25   performs the function that we want Siri [TS]

00:18:27   to perform in a way that seems amazing [TS]

00:18:29   but may have nothing to do with the way [TS]

00:18:31   human would form the same task and [TS]

00:18:33   that's how I think Siri will advance [TS]

00:18:34   it's not as if like well in a few years [TS]

00:18:35   they'll figure it out in Siri will be [TS]

00:18:36   awesome and it'll be able to understand [TS]

00:18:38   us no but in a few years they'll make [TS]

00:18:40   their AI better in the same way the game [TS]

00:18:42   AI has gotten better in the same period [TS]

00:18:43   of time because they have similar [TS]

00:18:45   resource constraints you don't have like [TS]

00:18:47   a giant supercomputer dedicated you you [TS]

00:18:49   need your answer right now and they have [TS]

00:18:50   a similarly narrowly defined set of [TS]

00:18:52   things they need to do doesn't need to [TS]

00:18:53   be a general purpose thing it you know [TS]

00:18:56   has to know about reminders and events [TS]

00:18:58   and the few things that exist in the [TS]

00:19:00   world of the phone and the things you [TS]

00:19:01   can do with phone just like Watson just [TS]

00:19:03   doesn't know about Jeopardy questions [TS]

00:19:04   right now Watson doesn't need to solve [TS]

00:19:07   calculus problems if you pose a calculus [TS]

00:19:09   problem - it will not give you the [TS]

00:19:10   answer because that's not Jeopardy [TS]

00:19:11   questions never ask things like that so [TS]

00:19:14   I think Siri will get better but there [TS]

00:19:18   was another link in the show notes I [TS]

00:19:19   think I put this one in here from the [TS]

00:19:21   formerly not lead iPhone developer of [TS]

00:19:24   the standalone Syria application back [TS]

00:19:26   when and it was an app because I guess [TS]

00:19:27   before Apple bought them and one of the [TS]

00:19:29   headings of his article is how Siri is [TS]

00:19:32   not really it's called it's not really [TS]

00:19:34   AI as a heading of a section where he's [TS]

00:19:36   backing up my point of view and my [TS]

00:19:39   particular definition of AI where when [TS]

00:19:41   he says it's not really AI he means the [TS]

00:19:44   same things I do it's not AI the way [TS]

00:19:45   science fiction thinks of AI as and it's [TS]

00:19:47   really intelligent it's artificial and [TS]

00:19:49   it's trying to be intelligent but it's [TS]

00:19:50   not AI a [TS]

00:19:51   so with all the people telling me oh of [TS]

00:19:54   course it's artificial intelligence is [TS]

00:19:55   artificial and is trying to be [TS]

00:19:56   intelligent that's not the definition [TS]

00:19:58   that you're using it's also not the [TS]

00:20:00   definition that the person who created [TS]

00:20:01   Siri is using or developed at any we're [TS]

00:20:03   talking very much about something that [TS]

00:20:05   is self-aware okay not didn't need [TS]

00:20:09   self-awareness just now something as [TS]

00:20:11   smart as a toddler where you could [TS]

00:20:12   converse with it like you converse for [TS]

00:20:13   the with a toddler with or with a [TS]

00:20:15   five-year-old right we're I think [TS]

00:20:17   speaking of cockroach or the last time I [TS]

00:20:19   looked into the AI field that was about [TS]

00:20:21   the level of intelligence we felt like [TS]

00:20:23   we were able to accurately simulate [TS]

00:20:28   cockroach [TS]

00:20:29   yeah like very very simple stimulus very [TS]

00:20:33   simple reactions and even that is [TS]

00:20:36   debatable it's like well that actually [TS]

00:20:38   the cockroach exhibits much more much [TS]

00:20:40   more sophisticated behavior than your [TS]

00:20:41   program but yeah [TS]

00:20:45   so that's I think that's demand more [TS]

00:20:49   links for Siri let me see you put this [TS]

00:20:53   one in with Andy Rubin yeah talk about [TS]

00:20:55   your phone should not be an assistant [TS]

00:20:57   and all I did when I saw that link was [TS]

00:20:59   just added a link below it to a Gruber's [TS]

00:21:01   take on that because bridge I grew with [TS]

00:21:03   hundred percent he's like what what else [TS]

00:21:04   is he going to say that's what Gruber [TS]

00:21:06   said and during horrible you know [TS]

00:21:07   another product has a headline feature [TS]

00:21:10   and he he's not going to say yeah that's [TS]

00:21:12   actually pretty good that's just not how [TS]

00:21:14   competition works yeah sort of like when [TS]

00:21:17   when the Android had all this great [TS]

00:21:19   voice support and the iPhone didn't if [TS]

00:21:22   you were if you could ever get a comment [TS]

00:21:23   from an Apple person you would say what [TS]

00:21:25   do you think all this voice stuff the [TS]

00:21:26   Google's doing you know and in Android [TS]

00:21:27   anyplace in the UI you can just speak in [TS]

00:21:30   your dictation and stuff like that and [TS]

00:21:32   they would have had if Apple was willing [TS]

00:21:34   to comment at all they would have had to [TS]

00:21:35   come up with some sort of answer and and [TS]

00:21:37   I'm sure they were tried to say [TS]

00:21:38   something bad like well we think that [TS]

00:21:42   technology is not quite ready and if we [TS]

00:21:44   were to do we would do it in a different [TS]

00:21:46   better way or I don't know you always [TS]

00:21:48   say something that's not so nice to your [TS]

00:21:50   competition and a Gruber's example was [TS]

00:21:53   how Jobs would always poopoo things [TS]

00:21:55   before Apple did them like oh no we [TS]

00:21:56   don't want video on an iPod it's too [TS]

00:21:58   small to watch and then when they do it [TS]

00:21:59   no well actually what Apple would says [TS]

00:22:01   nobody wants to watch a video on it [TS]

00:22:03   on a small screen yeah or nobody want [TS]

00:22:06   the the e-book thing like all people [TS]

00:22:08   that read anymore [TS]

00:22:09   it's BS pointless and then they come [TS]

00:22:10   with iBooks and they make no mention of [TS]

00:22:12   that so that's just this is competition [TS]

00:22:14   I don't put anything into that you know [TS]

00:22:16   you shouldn't be talking to your phone [TS]

00:22:17   um eventually Android volt and I think [TS]

00:22:20   Google is actually head-on a lot of [TS]

00:22:22   these things I'm surprised they didn't [TS]

00:22:23   phrase that differently because Google [TS]

00:22:25   has clearly been really into the voice [TS]

00:22:27   support and all that stuff yeah there's [TS]

00:22:29   been for a long time voice support in [TS]

00:22:32   Android and in fact I remember when when [TS]

00:22:36   the first signs of Siri coming out were [TS]

00:22:39   were there that you know it was out [TS]

00:22:41   people were immediately saying which is [TS]

00:22:43   better Siri or Android now I also want [TS]

00:22:46   to make a distinction is that their Siri [TS]

00:22:49   and then there's I don't know if you [TS]

00:22:53   would call it dictation or speech yeah [TS]

00:22:58   because you can go into any of Apple's [TS]

00:23:01   apps and any place where there is text [TS]

00:23:04   entry where there little keyboard slides [TS]

00:23:06   up you now also have a little microphone [TS]

00:23:08   so you can tap the microphone and just [TS]

00:23:11   dictate and it has a it has a little [TS]

00:23:13   microphone so you tap you tap the little [TS]

00:23:15   microphone button and in place of the [TS]

00:23:16   keyboard there comes up a little just a [TS]

00:23:20   little a bigger button and you can it [TS]

00:23:22   which has a microphone on it you tap [TS]

00:23:24   that you start talking you tap it again [TS]

00:23:26   when you're done talking and it very [TS]

00:23:29   very very quickly very quickly now I [TS]

00:23:31   understand it's still using they're [TS]

00:23:34   still using the internet it's still [TS]

00:23:36   sending that out for processing it's not [TS]

00:23:39   happening locally on the phone or at [TS]

00:23:40   least most of its not but it sends that [TS]

00:23:43   out to the internet and comes back very [TS]

00:23:46   quickly with the this speech to text you [TS]

00:23:50   know dictate dictation and then you have [TS]

00:23:53   your text message or your email or [TS]

00:23:55   whatever it was that you were composing [TS]

00:23:56   I feel like there's a differentiation [TS]

00:23:59   like to me and maybe there isn't maybe [TS]

00:24:01   there isn't a distinction but to me I [TS]

00:24:03   would almost want to say that's not Siri [TS]

00:24:06   because it's just doing the [TS]

00:24:08   text-to-speech it's err speech-to-text [TS]

00:24:10   rather it's not doing there's no [TS]

00:24:12   figuring out what I mean there's no [TS]

00:24:15   taking an action or trying to provide [TS]

00:24:18   answer or looking anything up it's just [TS]

00:24:20   saying I heard these sounds and I'm [TS]

00:24:23   making them into text for you well it's [TS]

00:24:25   half of because that's an important part [TS]

00:24:27   of Syria like I think nuance there using [TS]

00:24:29   the nuance stuff and nuance is the ones [TS]

00:24:30   that do Dragon Dictate and everything so [TS]

00:24:32   that's their rest their speech [TS]

00:24:33   recognition engine and then they have [TS]

00:24:35   the language processing engine that [TS]

00:24:36   figures out what to do right so but [TS]

00:24:37   without that first half obviously Siri [TS]

00:24:39   would not be useful so using the word [TS]

00:24:42   Siri described it as that's the [TS]

00:24:44   analogous lazy branding is an [TS]

00:24:46   interesting way to say it but the thing [TS]

00:24:47   about the dictation that I think about [TS]

00:24:50   is that so I have the dragon or I have [TS]

00:24:52   Mac speech dictator dragon dictator [TS]

00:24:54   whatever whatever they renamed it to [TS]

00:24:55   when nuance bought the mac speech guys [TS]

00:24:57   and it uses the nuance speech [TS]

00:24:58   recognition engine it even did before [TS]

00:25:00   they bought them I think they just [TS]

00:25:00   licensed it and you have to train it [TS]

00:25:03   when you buy it you have to read through [TS]

00:25:04   this 5-minute thing where you read and [TS]

00:25:06   it and it you know it highlights words [TS]

00:25:09   as you read them and that eventually [TS]

00:25:10   learns your voice and saves a voice [TS]

00:25:11   profile that's tied to both you and your [TS]

00:25:13   microphone so this is you and the iPhone [TS]

00:25:16   obviously doesn't have that training [TS]

00:25:17   period you just take it out of the box [TS]

00:25:19   and you can go into a Notes app and hit [TS]

00:25:21   the little microphone things start [TS]

00:25:22   talking and it'll make text and and like [TS]

00:25:26   within Siri you can say well the [TS]

00:25:27   vocabulary is constrained is just [TS]

00:25:29   reminders and events and whatever else [TS]

00:25:31   you can do with Siri but within just [TS]

00:25:33   generic dictation you could say anything [TS]

00:25:35   you want I know there is a sort of [TS]

00:25:37   natural language processing component of [TS]

00:25:39   speech recognition it's not just saying [TS]

00:25:40   what what sounds did you make and what [TS]

00:25:42   word corresponds them it knows the [TS]

00:25:43   context it knows well usually after this [TS]

00:25:46   word this word is more likely to come in [TS]

00:25:48   that word you know they both sound the [TS]

00:25:49   same now what's the Rex a nice Beach [TS]

00:25:54   every other one wrec is a nice beach [TS]

00:25:57   instead of recognized speech [TS]

00:25:59   depending on how you slow they can sound [TS]

00:26:01   very similar but one sentence is much [TS]

00:26:02   more likely than the other and so there [TS]

00:26:06   is and that Siri does the same thing [TS]

00:26:07   like in this context following the [TS]

00:26:10   things they've said previously what word [TS]

00:26:11   is a small most likely and and it has a [TS]

00:26:13   constrained vocabulary so even within [TS]

00:26:15   the world of dictation there's some kind [TS]

00:26:17   of Siri like intelligence where is [TS]

00:26:18   that's just how the nuance speech [TS]

00:26:20   dictation works it's not just convert [TS]

00:26:22   sound to word in isolation [TS]

00:26:23   it's consider everything that has been [TS]

00:26:25   said before and after and what is the [TS]

00:26:26   most likely sentence that comes out of [TS]

00:26:27   this so [TS]

00:26:31   it's kind of fair to label all that as [TS]

00:26:33   Siri and yeah I can get back to Google [TS]

00:26:36   they've been gung ho for this for a long [TS]

00:26:38   time on the Google homepage I think on [TS]

00:26:39   the web browser if you're using Chrome [TS]

00:26:41   or whatever this little microphone icon [TS]

00:26:42   you can just dictate right into it they [TS]

00:26:43   they love this kind of they've got the [TS]

00:26:45   self-driving cars too crying out loud [TS]

00:26:46   obviously this is right up Google's [TS]

00:26:47   alley else or it's not as if Google is [TS]

00:26:49   going is not interested in this field if [TS]

00:26:51   anything they were ahead in this field [TS]

00:26:52   and Apple in typical fashion simply [TS]

00:26:55   packaged it better and got out ahead [TS]

00:26:57   with just the parts that are the most [TS]

00:27:00   attractive to users not worrying so much [TS]

00:27:03   about self-driving cars for now right [TS]

00:27:05   the sponsors for sponsors right up your [TS]

00:27:08   alley John [TS]

00:27:09   game minder do you game you can do this [TS]

00:27:14   app is for you this app game minder [TS]

00:27:16   knows when apps are coming out games [TS]

00:27:18   everything so you don't have to worry [TS]

00:27:20   about it you hear about a game even if [TS]

00:27:22   it's years away you search for it in [TS]

00:27:23   game minder you use the reminder app and [TS]

00:27:26   a little let you know when it's coming [TS]

00:27:28   out so you can just keep playing xbox [TS]

00:27:29   ps3 Wii PC Mac iOS even these new what [TS]

00:27:34   does this one called PlayStation Vita [TS]

00:27:36   Vita and I don't know how to pronounce [TS]

00:27:38   it anyway they and they get the inside [TS]

00:27:40   scoop on stuff so that's their first app [TS]

00:27:42   game dot miner the second one is read [TS]

00:27:44   dot minor so iOS gives you this [TS]

00:27:46   reminders app but if you want more [TS]

00:27:48   features if you want them tied into game [TS]

00:27:49   minder if you want a more advanced [TS]

00:27:51   schedule more customization reminder has [TS]

00:27:55   that and even better is reminder Pro [TS]

00:27:57   Plus which is the the Mac Daddy app well [TS]

00:28:02   for all week long for just four 5x5 [TS]

00:28:04   listeners they've dropped the price of [TS]

00:28:06   reminder Pro Plus it's on sale 50% off [TS]

00:28:09   so you can search for read minder in the [TS]

00:28:13   iTunes Store or you can just go to 5x5 [TS]

00:28:14   dot TV slash hypercritical slash 39 for [TS]

00:28:17   this episode and the link will be there [TS]

00:28:19   that's our first sponsor thanks to [TS]

00:28:21   Hannah lumber you know that game [TS]

00:28:24   reminder app that's a very an [TS]

00:28:26   application of its time because it's [TS]

00:28:28   kind of so it's going to remind you [TS]

00:28:30   about games like you hold this game [TS]

00:28:31   coming out I want to I want to not [TS]

00:28:32   forget when that comes out so you're [TS]

00:28:34   enough of a gamer to know that a game is [TS]

00:28:37   coming out ahead of time and to be [TS]

00:28:38   excited enough about it that you would [TS]

00:28:40   be annoyed if you forgot about it but [TS]

00:28:43   you're not hard [TS]

00:28:44   or enough of a gamer to be constantly [TS]

00:28:46   playing games like well of course I [TS]

00:28:47   would never forget about that so it's [TS]

00:28:48   basically people like us who were big [TS]

00:28:50   gamers when we were younger but now you [TS]

00:28:52   have a family and responsibilities and [TS]

00:28:53   stuff like that it's it's the casual [TS]

00:28:55   hardcore gamer you would be a hardcore [TS]

00:28:57   gamer if you have the free time you had [TS]

00:28:59   when you were in your teens or 20s or [TS]

00:29:01   whatever but now you have more [TS]

00:29:02   responsibilities but you don't want to [TS]

00:29:03   miss that great game so you you have an [TS]

00:29:05   application that is going to remind you [TS]

00:29:08   of it [TS]

00:29:09   I think of things like that all the time [TS]

00:29:10   although in one particular case I've [TS]

00:29:12   been waiting for a game for like three [TS]

00:29:13   years now it's killing me and I don't [TS]

00:29:14   need a reminder for it but sometimes I I [TS]

00:29:17   lose track of when it's supposed to be [TS]

00:29:20   coming out that game is a Last Guardian [TS]

00:29:21   from the team the made I go and shout [TS]

00:29:23   out the closets coarsely possibly eco [TS]

00:29:25   depending on how you pronounce it people [TS]

00:29:27   can read and tell me uh but yeah I've [TS]

00:29:30   been waiting play game forever and I [TS]

00:29:32   just asked the people who are more up on [TS]

00:29:33   games I wanted when did they say that's [TS]

00:29:34   coming out now I've got delay it again [TS]

00:29:36   or whatever so yeah the that application [TS]

00:29:38   for the casual hardcore gamer they can [TS]

00:29:41   use that line if they like although I [TS]

00:29:42   think it's probably insulting to most [TS]

00:29:43   people but anyway I think it's very [TS]

00:29:45   useful what do we have and one more [TS]

00:29:50   thing on Siri we're talking about using [TS]

00:29:52   Siri with Apple TV and problems inherent [TS]

00:29:54   in that setup where the thing is far [TS]

00:29:58   away from you but it has to understand [TS]

00:29:59   your speech and it could be other people [TS]

00:30:00   talking in the room mostly I was [TS]

00:30:02   thinking of it is a way a way to solve [TS]

00:30:05   the input problem because the input [TS]

00:30:07   options for a television are not very [TS]

00:30:09   rich they just remote control with a [TS]

00:30:11   couple buttons or directional control [TS]

00:30:13   and especially for things like you just [TS]

00:30:15   want to turn it on and show some movie [TS]

00:30:17   for the kid people say well the room is [TS]

00:30:18   going to be too noisy and you don't want [TS]

00:30:21   to have an expensive thing like an iPod [TS]

00:30:22   to be used what can you do a couple of [TS]

00:30:24   suggestions were like well put a little [TS]

00:30:25   microphone in the remote my main [TS]

00:30:27   suggestion was just you know pair it all [TS]

00:30:29   down and go simple and say look it's not [TS]

00:30:30   always listening to you you have to [TS]

00:30:32   press a button to make it listen you [TS]

00:30:34   have to talk right into a thing and you [TS]

00:30:35   would be done and you can't do it when [TS]

00:30:37   the television is on people like well [TS]

00:30:39   what if the television is playing some [TS]

00:30:40   show and it interprets the speech on the [TS]

00:30:41   show as commands and people say well you [TS]

00:30:43   could cancel the audio out because it [TS]

00:30:45   knows what it's emitting so I'm sort of [TS]

00:30:47   like a carrier sense multiple access in [TS]

00:30:49   Ethernet where it would say well I'm [TS]

00:30:50   emitting this and if you know I can [TS]

00:30:52   cancel out what I'm emitting and see if [TS]

00:30:53   anything else was on the line it you [TS]

00:30:54   know in the air [TS]

00:30:56   there are lots of technical solutions [TS]

00:30:57   but I would simplify it I would just say [TS]

00:30:58   if you can't do it when the television [TS]

00:31:01   is playing and you have to talk right [TS]

00:31:03   into a thing you have to activate a mode [TS]

00:31:05   for it and even that alone which is very [TS]

00:31:06   primitive it's just easier to you know [TS]

00:31:10   pick up the thing and say play cars and [TS]

00:31:12   have it play the cars movie instead we [TS]

00:31:14   have to navigate through 50 menus and [TS]

00:31:15   launch some application and find the [TS]

00:31:16   cars movie for you or you know record [TS]

00:31:21   the Cowboys game tonight or something to [TS]

00:31:23   use herbage favorite team it'll be [TS]

00:31:26   that's which we had some syrian telogen [TS]

00:31:28   swear it can figure out the cow who the [TS]

00:31:29   cowboys are if there's any programs in [TS]

00:31:32   the upcoming schedule for the night that [TS]

00:31:34   have anything to do with cowboys or you [TS]

00:31:36   know that you could add some [TS]

00:31:37   intelligence to make that work it's [TS]

00:31:39   easier than flipping through the thing [TS]

00:31:40   and trying to find the show you want to [TS]

00:31:41   record so I still think there's [TS]

00:31:43   potential for this I did like the idea [TS]

00:31:45   of putting a microphone in the remote [TS]

00:31:47   and basically my my strategy would be [TS]

00:31:50   don't try to do something really [TS]

00:31:53   complicated make it very simple very [TS]

00:31:55   constrained very limited and it would [TS]

00:31:57   still be better than using a little [TS]

00:31:59   Direction pad to go see [TS]

00:32:01   oh I've left up top down down right ride [TS]

00:32:03   Oh up up down down left left right you [TS]

00:32:05   know [TS]

00:32:05   that's annoying we hate that end and I [TS]

00:32:08   wouldn't suggest as the Google TV things [TS]

00:32:09   we'll just give them a keyboard and [TS]

00:32:11   we'll put the no I don't want to [TS]

00:32:12   keyboard on my couch I don't want a [TS]

00:32:13   slider remote that opens up into a [TS]

00:32:15   keyboard it would be nice if you could [TS]

00:32:17   just talk to it and it would work and [TS]

00:32:20   someone made a web page with a mock-up [TS]

00:32:22   of that by the way that's I haven't any [TS]

00:32:23   show notes yeah I think that's it for [TS]

00:32:28   follow up be sure unless you had [TS]

00:32:34   anything else from now no I want to get [TS]

00:32:36   on to the new stuff the good the good [TS]

00:32:37   stuff [TS]

00:32:38   hi the next thing I have is that's kind [TS]

00:32:42   of follow up you so I want to talk a [TS]

00:32:43   little bit I clawed a little bit more [TS]

00:32:44   about iCloud well you know I got the [TS]

00:32:48   phones showed up last Friday week ago [TS]

00:32:50   and I've had a week to experiment with [TS]

00:32:55   iCloud things I don't know if I'll be [TS]

00:32:58   able to answer all of your questions but [TS]

00:33:00   I imagine you've also been experimenting [TS]

00:33:02   with it there right yeah in a limited [TS]

00:33:04   fashion mostly this is a reaction to [TS]

00:33:06   listening to back to work where Merlin [TS]

00:33:08   when off on iCloud a little bit.i and [TS]

00:33:11   listening to his experiences because he [TS]

00:33:14   was brave enough to use the beta switch [TS]

00:33:15   I never was I was like I'm not putting [TS]

00:33:17   any of my data you know I did I didn't [TS]

00:33:18   either register for I club with a new [TS]

00:33:20   Apple ID during the lion beta just to [TS]

00:33:22   see what it was like but that was such a [TS]

00:33:23   long time ago and I never put any of my [TS]

00:33:25   real data into it it was just me [TS]

00:33:26   fiddling around with stuff but he's [TS]

00:33:29   tried to put his real data into it and [TS]

00:33:30   run into all sorts of weird issues and [TS]

00:33:34   one of his big objections was that he [TS]

00:33:38   seems to have no it's not trustworthy [TS]

00:33:41   and it's not as trustworthy as Dropbox [TS]

00:33:43   because he's not ever sure what's going [TS]

00:33:45   on in that other place he can see what's [TS]

00:33:47   on his devices and on his Mac but he's [TS]

00:33:50   never sure if it wasn't there until you [TS]

00:33:52   looked as kind of a shorteners cat kind [TS]

00:33:54   of situation where I said well if I [TS]

00:33:56   didn't look at that Pages document I [TS]

00:33:57   just boarded a plane when I was on the [TS]

00:33:58   plane I tried to pull up the Pages [TS]

00:34:00   document would it not be there and it [TS]

00:34:01   would try to fetch it at that point [TS]

00:34:02   which point doesn't have it versus [TS]

00:34:04   Dropbox Regis looks a little icons he's [TS]

00:34:05   the checkbox and checkmark on the menu [TS]

00:34:07   bar icon and knows it's got everything [TS]

00:34:09   it's all synced you know that was the [TS]

00:34:11   great title bed episode it's never not [TS]

00:34:13   everywhere whereas with iCloud he's not [TS]

00:34:15   so sure and I got him to likely know if [TS]

00:34:18   you wanted to lead a photo from your [TS]

00:34:19   photo stream there's no way to do that [TS]

00:34:20   you got to reset the whole stream and [TS]

00:34:22   that is not ideal and I think I talked [TS]

00:34:25   about a little bit how it was more like [TS]

00:34:27   a conduit and they weren't they didn't [TS]

00:34:28   want you to have it's not a place you're [TS]

00:34:31   supposed to think of like it's more like [TS]

00:34:32   they just wanted to appear on all your [TS]

00:34:34   devices they want it to work the way [TS]

00:34:36   Dropbox works but when it doesn't you [TS]

00:34:38   don't have as much of an a mechanism to [TS]

00:34:41   reach into that middle place and see [TS]

00:34:42   what's there I manipulate it right now [TS]

00:34:46   what I want to say about this is [TS]

00:34:48   something I was going to do an iCloud [TS]

00:34:49   section in my line review and I cut it [TS]

00:34:51   but what I would have put in there is my [TS]

00:34:54   understanding of the iCloud philosophy [TS]

00:34:57   from talking to people WWC and going to [TS]

00:34:59   sessions and stuff like that and how it [TS]

00:35:02   how it is different than the MobileMe [TS]

00:35:05   philosophy you know I don't know if you [TS]

00:35:07   did use mommy syncing a lot not I mean [TS]

00:35:09   early on I did a few years ago but I I [TS]

00:35:12   stopped using mobile me when I mean [TS]

00:35:14   certainly by the time Dropbox was out I [TS]

00:35:16   stopped using it because I wasn't you [TS]

00:35:17   know I'm kind of weird I guess in that I [TS]

00:35:19   don't use a lot of bookmarks there's [TS]

00:35:21   only a handful of them it's not like I [TS]

00:35:23   and I have that many machines I want to [TS]

00:35:25   sync them back and forth to and that was [TS]

00:35:27   for me that was the big selling point of [TS]

00:35:29   mobile me I never used I disk I never [TS]

00:35:31   used the photo albums anyway so what's [TS]

00:35:34   left I mean the stinking stuff I mean it [TS]

00:35:37   was great thinking address book syncing [TS]

00:35:38   it in doing those uh you know I don't do [TS]

00:35:41   a lot with keychain generally speaking [TS]

00:35:43   because I use one password address books [TS]

00:35:45   thinking you could do with Google uh so [TS]

00:35:48   there really wasn't that much value of [TS]

00:35:51   it for for value there for me after a [TS]

00:35:54   while so I had stopped doing it [TS]

00:35:56   but it sounds like Merlin was actually [TS]

00:35:58   trying to use I disk which is braver [TS]

00:35:59   than I was but I had such a bad [TS]

00:36:01   experience with a disk yeah and I did I [TS]

00:36:04   did keychain syncing I still do keychain [TS]

00:36:06   syncing your Jimbo's thinking which [TS]

00:36:08   Gruber mentioned that he uses as well [TS]

00:36:10   and that the thing about mobile me [TS]

00:36:12   sinking is it was so is very similar [TS]

00:36:14   experience work although I should you [TS]

00:36:16   know there's an API just like iCloud [TS]

00:36:17   where the applications can use this API [TS]

00:36:19   and you could choose on which machine [TS]

00:36:20   you might which things to be synced to [TS]

00:36:22   with a little compression Spain and the [TS]

00:36:26   little I kind of desktop the shows when [TS]

00:36:28   it's syncing stuff but the key [TS]

00:36:29   difference is that the mobile me and the [TS]

00:36:32   Sync Services Inc infrastructure that's [TS]

00:36:33   built on I think syncs the sync services [TS]

00:36:35   predate mobile me maybe it was in a dot [TS]

00:36:37   Mac based to but I don't know it's all [TS]

00:36:38   the same thing same thing the underlying [TS]

00:36:40   architecture was that the sync stuff [TS]

00:36:45   would run and so if you is pretend [TS]

00:36:48   everything is in sync and then you go on [TS]

00:36:50   one machine that's disconnected from the [TS]

00:36:52   internet and you and you change [TS]

00:36:55   somebody's phone numbered end and a four [TS]

00:36:58   and you want another machine and you [TS]

00:36:59   change that same guy's phone number ten [TS]

00:37:00   to the five right then when you sync [TS]

00:37:03   those two machines on one of them are [TS]

00:37:05   possibly both of them you get dialog [TS]

00:37:06   that says well one of these machines [TS]

00:37:08   thinks this number should be a four and [TS]

00:37:09   the other one thinks it should be a five [TS]

00:37:11   which one is right you'd be presented [TS]

00:37:12   with the conflict resolution dialog you [TS]

00:37:14   remember that thing yes we would show it [TS]

00:37:16   would basically show your computer as a [TS]

00:37:18   five but dot Mac has a four choose one [TS]

00:37:21   right and then it was a checkbox at the [TS]

00:37:22   bottom that says make the same decision [TS]

00:37:24   for all them so if you decided Mac was [TS]

00:37:26   canonical like oh I'm sure what's on dot [TS]

00:37:28   Mac is what I really want so you could [TS]

00:37:29   just say don't don't ask me about these [TS]

00:37:31   during the sync process just go through [TS]

00:37:33   the rest of them and just take what that [TS]

00:37:34   Mac has [TS]

00:37:34   but if you're paranoid you go through [TS]

00:37:36   each one automatic has this and you have [TS]

00:37:37   that it would also prompt you who were [TS]

00:37:39   going to change a certain percentage of [TS]

00:37:41   the things like I'm about to change more [TS]

00:37:43   than 20% of your contacts let me bring [TS]

00:37:44   up this dialog it says are you sure you [TS]

00:37:46   want to do this here's what it looks [TS]

00:37:47   like though Mac has these contacts and [TS]

00:37:49   you have these right Yojimbo was a great [TS]

00:37:52   torture test for sync services I don't [TS]

00:37:54   know if you call it great Apple to call [TS]

00:37:55   it great but your Jimbo is this sort of [TS]

00:37:57   I know you'd call it like a shoebox [TS]

00:37:59   application where you can just put [TS]

00:38:00   anything in there you can put captures [TS]

00:38:02   of webpages bookmarks rich text [TS]

00:38:05   documents I think this PDF so all sorts [TS]

00:38:08   of stuff you can throw in your Jimbo and [TS]

00:38:10   some of these can be very large even [TS]

00:38:11   just a big capture of a very long [TS]

00:38:13   webpage but it will save all the images [TS]

00:38:15   associated with a webpage and the whole [TS]

00:38:16   thing it would like you know get like a [TS]

00:38:17   web archive of it right and when your [TS]

00:38:20   Jimbo came out what you'd get was the [TS]

00:38:21   dialog would come up and say you know [TS]

00:38:24   dot Mac has this and your Mac has that [TS]

00:38:26   and what it would show is a giant [TS]

00:38:28   hexadecimal dump of binary data of like [TS]

00:38:30   three megabytes of binary did and if it [TS]

00:38:32   was over a certain size you get the [TS]

00:38:33   spinning beach ball right in front of [TS]

00:38:35   that review and dialogue and you'd never [TS]

00:38:37   be able to do anything so now you're [TS]

00:38:38   stuck you can't sink your Mac because [TS]

00:38:40   the sink services can't handle the [TS]

00:38:42   volume of data it's being asked to to [TS]

00:38:44   review the changes too and it wouldn't [TS]

00:38:46   matter anyway because you can't make [TS]

00:38:47   heads or tails of this hex dump all you [TS]

00:38:49   can really look at is the dates and say [TS]

00:38:50   oh yeah I remember I changed that over [TS]

00:38:52   there and I should replace it on this [TS]

00:38:53   Mac you know that experience all right [TS]

00:38:56   part of that is bugs right same services [TS]

00:38:58   not being good part of that is design [TS]

00:39:00   where they didn't have an interface [TS]

00:39:02   where the applications could provide a [TS]

00:39:04   piece of code that would say I know how [TS]

00:39:06   to display Yojimbo documents so when [TS]

00:39:08   someone asks for diff on your jimbo [TS]

00:39:09   document use my code and splice diff you [TS]

00:39:11   know the same services would just fall [TS]

00:39:13   back to oh here's a binary dump make [TS]

00:39:14   sense of that good luck so that was a [TS]

00:39:17   feature missed [TS]

00:39:20   missing features there and so they [TS]

00:39:23   sorted out the performance eventually [TS]

00:39:25   much thanks I'm sure to Yojimbo and all [TS]

00:39:27   of its users torture testing it and you [TS]

00:39:29   know back and forth between Apple and [TS]

00:39:30   bare-bones to get that working and now [TS]

00:39:32   does work really well and I don't get [TS]

00:39:34   those dialogues anymore and it certainly [TS]

00:39:35   doesn't beachball and freeze anymore [TS]

00:39:36   that took many years to get to though in [TS]

00:39:38   many years involving all sorts of as [TS]

00:39:40   Merlin pointed strange incantations to [TS]

00:39:42   reset things in the MobileMe side [TS]

00:39:44   including the super secret apple [TS]

00:39:46   internal applications that can [TS]

00:39:48   a hard hard reset of your MobileMe state [TS]

00:39:50   to just wipe everything clean not a fun [TS]

00:39:53   experience right now but but the big [TS]

00:39:55   design change that the Apple decided was [TS]

00:39:59   a mistake with MobileMe with ever [TS]

00:40:00   presenting the user with a dialogue that [TS]

00:40:02   to resolve a conflict because then [TS]

00:40:05   you're making them make a choice and no [TS]

00:40:07   matter how good you make that decision [TS]

00:40:08   and how much information you provide [TS]

00:40:10   you've got a custom UI they could show [TS]

00:40:12   you exactly the differences or whatever [TS]

00:40:13   regular users are not like programmers [TS]

00:40:14   they don't want to see a side-by-side [TS]

00:40:15   diff and make a decision and so how do [TS]

00:40:20   you get how do you get rid of that but [TS]

00:40:22   still deal with the situation when you [TS]

00:40:23   have one computer that changed the phone [TS]

00:40:25   number ten with the for one computer [TS]

00:40:26   changed em with the five what's what's [TS]

00:40:27   the answer obviously there has to be [TS]

00:40:29   some winner there because they the same [TS]

00:40:30   phone number can't be you know to have [TS]

00:40:32   two different endings right so the [TS]

00:40:35   iCloud philosophy is don't ever show [TS]

00:40:39   anyone a dialog box to ask them to make [TS]

00:40:41   a decision and that's in keeping with [TS]

00:40:42   Apple's philosophy of just not [TS]

00:40:44   presenting options and just it's [TS]

00:40:45   annoying like don't don't bother me with [TS]

00:40:47   this I don't want to hear about it right [TS]

00:40:48   but to make sure you know and then [TS]

00:40:51   iCloud basically has to pick a winner [TS]

00:40:53   but to make sure you don't screw the [TS]

00:40:56   user over like say you pick the wrong [TS]

00:40:58   thing icon philosophy seems to be if you [TS]

00:41:01   have two things that conflict in some [TS]

00:41:04   way they're big hammer to solve this is [TS]

00:41:07   versioning so pick a winner [TS]

00:41:09   push loser onto the stack of versions [TS]

00:41:11   and then push the winner on to the stack [TS]

00:41:13   of versions so no prompts no information [TS]

00:41:16   no decisions you're being asked to mate [TS]

00:41:17   that's why this can happen when you're [TS]

00:41:18   not in front of the thing like it can [TS]

00:41:20   sync to your phones by push to know that [TS]

00:41:21   you know the device could have the [TS]

00:41:22   screen turned off is laying on your desk [TS]

00:41:24   right you don't want to pick up your [TS]

00:41:25   phone and turn on have 50 dialog saying [TS]

00:41:27   for you to resolve conflicts right it [TS]

00:41:29   says I'm just going to pick a winner [TS]

00:41:31   based on some simple heuristic like you [TS]

00:41:34   know the least most recently updated or [TS]

00:41:35   whatever it rules they decide but [TS]

00:41:37   doesn't really matter because I the [TS]

00:41:38   loser I pushed on to the stack of [TS]

00:41:40   different versions and your application [TS]

00:41:41   and the api's you're supposed to provide [TS]

00:41:43   you with a way to get back that old [TS]

00:41:44   version if you decide wait a second [TS]

00:41:45   what's going on here right ah and in the [TS]

00:41:49   WEC keynote they didn't emphasize this [TS]

00:41:51   as much as they emphasized the other [TS]

00:41:52   thing which was there's no place you go [TS]

00:41:54   or app you run or thing you do for [TS]

00:41:56   iCloud it's built into your applications [TS]

00:41:58   so their ideal scenario is the [TS]

00:42:01   applications them [TS]

00:42:02   elves do the hard work to implement all [TS]

00:42:05   this functionality to like oh how do I [TS]

00:42:06   get back my previous version you know to [TS]

00:42:08   pull the sync versions when I make a [TS]

00:42:11   change I push it down to the cloud when [TS]

00:42:12   they launch the application pull the [TS]

00:42:14   changes from the cloud all this business [TS]

00:42:15   make it in the application so there's no [TS]

00:42:18   other place to go and it just seems to [TS]

00:42:20   magically work that's the ideal scenario [TS]

00:42:22   but as marilyn is finding that relies on [TS]

00:42:24   all the applications doing all this [TS]

00:42:28   fancy stuff and even Apple zones [TS]

00:42:29   applications maybe making decisions [TS]

00:42:31   about how to implement this stuff that [TS]

00:42:32   are different so if pages for example if [TS]

00:42:35   if you can only get your pages documents [TS]

00:42:38   by launching pages and if you don't [TS]

00:42:40   launch pages it hasn't synced with the [TS]

00:42:41   cloud that's bad because that's not what [TS]

00:42:44   that's not what Merlin expects it that's [TS]

00:42:46   not how Dropbox would work because [TS]

00:42:48   Dropbox is always running all right so [TS]

00:42:50   they're trying to balance the need to [TS]

00:42:52   have some always running third-party [TS]

00:42:54   applications syncing all your files with [TS]

00:42:56   the idea that they don't want it to be a [TS]

00:42:58   thing that you deal with they don't want [TS]

00:43:00   any decisions they don't want a third [TS]

00:43:01   thing that you deal with our place that [TS]

00:43:03   you go they don't want an eye sync [TS]

00:43:04   application that you launch and hit a [TS]

00:43:05   sync button they don't even want like a [TS]

00:43:07   little sync process that appears they [TS]

00:43:08   just want it to all be transparent but [TS]

00:43:10   when you violate some assumption like [TS]

00:43:13   the network is always available and you [TS]

00:43:15   board a plane and you try to get your [TS]

00:43:17   pages documented it's not there that's [TS]

00:43:19   an upsetting experience of people like [TS]

00:43:21   Marilyn and me and you I'm sure would [TS]

00:43:23   like to have enough control to say [TS]

00:43:25   alright I know enough about the [TS]

00:43:26   internals to know that before I board [TS]

00:43:28   this plane make sure my Dropbox is [TS]

00:43:29   synced and then I'll know I'll have [TS]

00:43:31   everything you know I see the little [TS]

00:43:32   checkmark I'm good to go on the plane [TS]

00:43:34   because I've got all the stuff locally [TS]

00:43:35   it's an implementation detail that you [TS]

00:43:36   understand right versus hiding this all [TS]

00:43:39   and having nothing visible to anybody [TS]

00:43:41   and not being sure well is there [TS]

00:43:44   background process in iOS 5 that's [TS]

00:43:45   pulling these things I think there is [TS]

00:43:47   for photostream but is it does it pull [TS]

00:43:49   pages documents or do I have to launch [TS]

00:43:50   pages and maybe I should just launch [TS]

00:43:51   pages to be safe and even when you [TS]

00:43:53   launch pages if you saw your document [TS]

00:43:54   listed another implementation detail [TS]

00:43:56   could be oh well pages just pulled the [TS]

00:43:58   metadata from iCloud it didn't pull the [TS]

00:44:00   documents this is something that I [TS]

00:44:01   thought does by the way because it wants [TS]

00:44:02   to be parsimonious with its usage of the [TS]

00:44:06   the network and everything and so it may [TS]

00:44:11   only pull the metadata oh yeah this [TS]

00:44:12   document this is how big it is and [TS]

00:44:13   here's like a preview image but you [TS]

00:44:15   don't have the [TS]

00:44:15   until you open the documents oh yeah you [TS]

00:44:18   get into this paranoia mode very like [TS]

00:44:19   let me just make sure I have everything [TS]

00:44:20   okay load it or did it load everything [TS]

00:44:22   or maybe the only loaded the first page [TS]

00:44:23   I mean maybe I should scroll through the [TS]

00:44:24   thing [TS]

00:44:25   it obviously it's us overthinking it but [TS]

00:44:27   we're overthinking it because we run [TS]

00:44:29   into situations where stuff is not [TS]

00:44:31   always everywhere as Merlin put it and [TS]

00:44:33   so we get paranoid about it as we know [TS]

00:44:35   about the implementation but this [TS]

00:44:37   implementation this whole thing with a [TS]

00:44:38   grab bean or ribbon fingerprinting that [TS]

00:44:41   I talked about in the lion review is an [TS]

00:44:43   efficient way to to send and receive [TS]

00:44:44   just the changes to files and to chunk [TS]

00:44:46   them up into pieces so you you know the [TS]

00:44:48   pieces don't all change when a one-bite [TS]

00:44:50   at the end of the file changes it wasn't [TS]

00:44:52   shift all the bytes over in the other [TS]

00:44:53   pieces like they're trying to be [TS]

00:44:55   efficient about network access and data [TS]

00:44:57   storage and not constantly running stuff [TS]

00:44:59   but they're also trying to make it [TS]

00:45:00   appear like everything is everywhere and [TS]

00:45:01   there's a conflict between those things [TS]

00:45:03   and on top of that the never prompting [TS]

00:45:06   for what you should do so there's not [TS]

00:45:08   even any place you'd go reset just just [TS]

00:45:10   pull everything I'm gonna board a plane [TS]

00:45:11   just anything that's in the cloud I've [TS]

00:45:13   got an hour before my flight leaves just [TS]

00:45:15   just pull it all now because I'm on [TS]

00:45:16   Wi-Fi there's no button for that because [TS]

00:45:18   there's no place to go for that that's [TS]

00:45:20   at as designed I think these are all [TS]

00:45:24   solvable problems and I think Apple did [TS]

00:45:25   choose the right thing of not prompting [TS]

00:45:27   people those conflicts and having it all [TS]

00:45:29   trying to be automated but it's obvious [TS]

00:45:31   that sometimes the assumptions built [TS]

00:45:34   into Apple system are being violated [TS]

00:45:36   like when the network isn't accessible [TS]

00:45:39   and that sort of breaks the illusion [TS]

00:45:40   there and I think applications need to [TS]

00:45:42   be updated to I don't know that needs to [TS]

00:45:45   be like would you want pages to pull [TS]

00:45:46   every single when your documents all the [TS]

00:45:47   time some people would say yes [TS]

00:45:49   maybe that maybe you have to have some [TS]

00:45:51   sort of preference at that level or some [TS]

00:45:52   way for it to do it [TS]

00:45:53   earthy I'm going to board a plane button [TS]

00:45:55   or something like that but Apple might [TS]

00:45:58   say well that's that's an edge case and [TS]

00:45:59   we don't want that at all and most [TS]

00:46:00   people are always near a network you [TS]

00:46:03   know this how many times I offer you on [TS]

00:46:05   a plane [TS]

00:46:05   so we'll just pull it on demand because [TS]

00:46:07   that's the most efficient way to do [TS]

00:46:08   things it's upsetting to Merlin and it [TS]

00:46:11   may be upsetting the tech heads I wonder [TS]

00:46:12   how regular people will feel about the [TS]

00:46:15   transparency of iCloud I don't know if [TS]

00:46:17   we have any and maybe guess they if she [TS]

00:46:20   had it off she's making documents that [TS]

00:46:22   are being sync to iCloud or how she's [TS]

00:46:24   experienced this well she's editing that [TS]

00:46:26   the other show but I'll ask her [TS]

00:46:27   and it'll be interesting it's going to [TS]

00:46:31   be a while before anyone in my extended [TS]

00:46:32   family gets any iOS 5 devices because [TS]

00:46:35   we're all using older iPods many of [TS]

00:46:36   which can't be upgraded to that but if [TS]

00:46:38   they don't have iPhones they're still [TS]

00:46:40   using mobile me eventually they'll be on [TS]

00:46:42   iCloud and everything that will be [TS]

00:46:43   interesting to see it what they think of [TS]

00:46:44   the syncing experience as I said last [TS]

00:46:46   week the fact that you can do something [TS]

00:46:49   on one device like take a picture with [TS]

00:46:51   your phone and it automatically shows up [TS]

00:46:53   at your other devices and that part [TS]

00:46:54   actually works that is like 90% of the [TS]

00:46:57   battle for regular people I think they [TS]

00:47:00   didn't have to do anything they just [TS]

00:47:01   signed and it just magically work and [TS]

00:47:02   the details about well what if I want to [TS]

00:47:04   delete it or what if I got on a plane or [TS]

00:47:05   are my pages documents really there as [TS]

00:47:07   much as that annoys people like us I [TS]

00:47:10   think that's probably the 8090 percent [TS]

00:47:12   solution and those details are not going [TS]

00:47:15   to be that big of a deal source bits [TS]

00:47:21   writing software design and development [TS]

00:47:24   services for iOS Android Mac and the web [TS]

00:47:26   source bits is at the bleeding edge of [TS]

00:47:29   emerging technologies their deep [TS]

00:47:30   experience and successful track record [TS]

00:47:33   makes it so that you have an idea you [TS]

00:47:36   and get it done you just go to search [TS]

00:47:39   pits calm you tell them about it [TS]

00:47:41   they make it happen you have a webapp [TS]

00:47:44   piece you have an Android version iOS [TS]

00:47:47   doesn't matter they just do it they do [TS]

00:47:50   it all they do it right the first time [TS]

00:47:51   and they save you money because you [TS]

00:47:53   don't have to do it twice source bits [TS]

00:47:56   calm cutting-edge app development I gave [TS]

00:47:58   him that that's logo slogan not logo [TS]

00:48:02   slow go I gave them that [TS]

00:48:05   so generous it's their slow go they can [TS]

00:48:08   do whatever they want it's theirs [TS]

00:48:11   they're gonna have to run with this I [TS]

00:48:13   mean I'm just the idea guy [TS]

00:48:15   sore spits calm so our remaining time I [TS]

00:48:21   I guess I'll circle I still don't have [TS]

00:48:23   time I thought maybe I'd get to the what [TS]

00:48:25   ails Microsoft probably can't get it [TS]

00:48:27   give some hints drop some hints oh I'm [TS]

00:48:30   gonna do a Microsoft topic and will [TS]

00:48:31   creep up on I'll I still have a little [TS]

00:48:32   tiny bit of Windows eight stop [TS]

00:48:34   straggling from way way back four shows [TS]

00:48:36   ago or something this is a long circle [TS]

00:48:39   back but events transpired that [TS]

00:48:40   prevented [TS]

00:48:41   from coming so I'll try to finish up my [TS]

00:48:45   thoughts on this Windows 8 video which [TS]

00:48:46   ought to put in the show notes this was [TS]

00:48:48   a demonstration of Windows 8 from was it [TS]

00:48:50   a month ago it's a long time ago talking [TS]

00:48:52   about the UI the philosophy behind the [TS]

00:48:54   UI and some of the things behind it so I [TS]

00:48:56   have at the tail end of those to make I [TS]

00:48:58   can fit those in here so I think where I [TS]

00:49:01   left off last time was on contracts I [TS]

00:49:05   didn't talk about them at all so [TS]

00:49:08   contracts is a concept in Windows 8 that [TS]

00:49:13   it allows applications to work together [TS]

00:49:15   without knowing anything about each [TS]

00:49:17   other there are lots of technologies on [TS]

00:49:19   all platforms that fits this description [TS]

00:49:21   for example the clipboard on the Mac is [TS]

00:49:23   a mechanism like that you can copy text [TS]

00:49:25   one application to paste than the other [TS]

00:49:27   and those two applications those [TS]

00:49:29   developers need never have known [TS]

00:49:30   anything about each other never met like [TS]

00:49:32   this an intermediary they both work with [TS]

00:49:34   the intermediary in the intermediary [TS]

00:49:35   does the job of translating between and [TS]

00:49:37   then mat clipboard does all sorts of [TS]

00:49:38   stuff with storing different [TS]

00:49:40   representations like the the sending [TS]

00:49:41   application will send one or two [TS]

00:49:43   representations then the receiving [TS]

00:49:44   application will say which ones that can [TS]

00:49:45   receive but that's that's a very basic [TS]

00:49:46   form of having applications work [TS]

00:49:49   together without knowing anything about [TS]

00:49:50   each other and that was fairly [TS]

00:49:51   revolutionary when the Mac came out the [TS]

00:49:52   idea that you can copy for any [TS]

00:49:53   application and paste into any other and [TS]

00:49:55   for some platforms like Linux say that's [TS]

00:49:57   or it's still revolutionary but that's [TS]

00:49:59   due to accidents of history maybe those [TS]

00:50:01   a cheap shot that so contracts in [TS]

00:50:05   Windows 8 are a richer version of that [TS]

00:50:08   actually before I get the contracts [TS]

00:50:10   let's think about how that works in iOS [TS]

00:50:12   there is a there's the clipboard in iOS [TS]

00:50:15   right finally where you can copy and [TS]

00:50:16   paste stuff from one place the other but [TS]

00:50:18   there's also this weird thing with URL [TS]

00:50:21   schemes where you can register a URL [TS]

00:50:22   scheme you just make up one instead of [TS]

00:50:24   HTTP colon slash slash it's like my cool [TS]

00:50:26   app name colon slash slash and if you [TS]

00:50:28   register that with the system then when [TS]

00:50:30   the regular URL opening API is find an [TS]

00:50:34   API that begins with that double sale [TS]

00:50:35   when I see this URL I launch this other [TS]

00:50:37   app and provide it with this thing and [TS]

00:50:38   that's a really rudimentary way that you [TS]

00:50:40   can from one application like you know [TS]

00:50:43   open a PDF and find any applet well [TS]

00:50:45   that's slightly different than the thing [TS]

00:50:46   where they figure out what Apps can [TS]

00:50:47   understand PDFs but they're very [TS]

00:50:50   primitive ways by registering URL scheme [TS]

00:50:52   handlers or by registering with the [TS]

00:50:55   system [TS]

00:50:55   kinds of documents that you understand [TS]

00:50:57   that applications can provide content to [TS]

00:50:59   each other through this intermediary of [TS]

00:51:01   the system which knows which [TS]

00:51:03   applications can handle which pretend [TS]

00:51:05   protocols and which file right next [TS]

00:51:07   engine so contracts is a severely [TS]

00:51:10   cranked up version of that where the [TS]

00:51:12   middleman isn't just a clipboard and it [TS]

00:51:14   isn't just a registry of file types and [TS]

00:51:16   URL schemes [TS]

00:51:16   it's the middleman with some rich [TS]

00:51:19   understanding of a few particular things [TS]

00:51:21   and so you can I think what's one of it [TS]

00:51:25   what's one of the the contracts here I [TS]

00:51:27   may find a solid example so this there's [TS]

00:51:30   a search system service to search things [TS]

00:51:33   and if an application it is something [TS]

00:51:35   searchable inside an application an [TS]

00:51:37   application will write support for the [TS]

00:51:40   search contract and it will become [TS]

00:51:42   available as a thing that can be [TS]

00:51:44   searched and even go so far as to when [TS]

00:51:48   it brings up the UI for searching stuff [TS]

00:51:49   if you're searching within your [TS]

00:51:51   application your application gets a [TS]

00:51:53   chance to present its content the way it [TS]

00:51:55   wants to present it or present a UI that [TS]

00:51:57   makes sense within that application that [TS]

00:51:59   you know so this is actual UI component [TS]

00:52:01   actual segments of your own code running [TS]

00:52:03   to provide this interface I think they [TS]

00:52:07   do it for settings too I could do for [TS]

00:52:08   settings as well like so in an iOS where [TS]

00:52:11   you've got the settings application do [TS]

00:52:13   you remember when iOS first came out I [TS]

00:52:14   said oh don't put your preferences in [TS]

00:52:15   your application right put them all in [TS]

00:52:17   settings and Mac users were like well I [TS]

00:52:19   got to leave the application to tell [TS]

00:52:20   whether I want the background and this [TS]

00:52:22   thing to be light or dark well I can't [TS]

00:52:24   just do it within here so now go to the [TS]

00:52:26   Settings app setting app is actually [TS]

00:52:27   kind of similar where you write [TS]

00:52:28   something that defines data structure [TS]

00:52:31   that the settings application reads and [TS]

00:52:33   says I'll here's how I can provide [TS]

00:52:34   settings this other application oh [TS]

00:52:35   settings in Windows 8 use the contracts [TS]

00:52:39   thing to provide its their charms on the [TS]

00:52:44   side or error to provide a centralized [TS]

00:52:46   UI for all settings and applications [TS]

00:52:49   right to this the settings contract [TS]

00:52:52   thing to be able to present their UI in [TS]

00:52:54   that context instead of just providing [TS]

00:52:56   data structure that I would actually [TS]

00:52:57   have a chance to draw things on the [TS]

00:52:58   screens though now the thing that this [TS]

00:53:01   contracts I'm probably doing a bad job [TS]

00:53:04   of describing all the richness available [TS]

00:53:06   in contracts because it's been a while [TS]

00:53:07   since I've seen this video my notes are [TS]

00:53:09   not [TS]

00:53:09   all the bells back but the things that [TS]

00:53:12   the contracts made me think of whatever [TS]

00:53:13   I saw it is like so obviously this is [TS]

00:53:15   like clipboard on steroids or it's [TS]

00:53:18   better than registering profile types [TS]

00:53:20   and protocol handles like an iOS so it's [TS]

00:53:21   clearly a step up in cooperation between [TS]

00:53:25   applications providing more interesting [TS]

00:53:27   cooperation and a richer set of [TS]

00:53:29   behaviors for cooperation and what it [TS]

00:53:32   may be think of because I'm an old man [TS]

00:53:34   and an old Mac user was published and [TS]

00:53:36   subscribe do you remember that hmm no no [TS]

00:53:40   this is maybe in the 90s I should find a [TS]

00:53:42   Wikipedia link for this so sometime when [TS]

00:53:45   Apple was busy making strange new [TS]

00:53:47   technologies but they weren't all really [TS]

00:53:49   sticking like it was early enough that [TS]

00:53:51   Apple was still doing really interesting [TS]

00:53:52   things but late enough that they were [TS]

00:53:54   starting to do interesting things that [TS]

00:53:55   people would look at and go yeah I don't [TS]

00:53:58   know kind of like I think this was [TS]

00:53:59   before open doc before power talk if [TS]

00:54:02   anyone remembers that probably not so [TS]

00:54:04   publish and subscribe was similar type [TS]

00:54:07   of thing where there was a there was a [TS]

00:54:08   API defined in the system where [TS]

00:54:10   applications could say would you like to [TS]

00:54:12   publish something we'll use this publish [TS]

00:54:14   API and say I am publishing this this [TS]

00:54:16   graph from my spreadsheet application [TS]

00:54:18   and then in your word processor the word [TS]

00:54:21   processor would say oh I'm going to [TS]

00:54:22   subscribe to that graph from this other [TS]

00:54:25   application and then there would be like [TS]

00:54:26   a little square inside your word [TS]

00:54:28   processing application that showed the [TS]

00:54:32   spread the graph from your spreadsheet [TS]

00:54:34   application even though you know the two [TS]

00:54:36   applications might not not know anything [TS]

00:54:38   about each other they just happened to [TS]

00:54:39   both support publish and subscribe [TS]

00:54:40   some of the chamfers point out this is [TS]

00:54:42   very similar to o le object linking and [TS]

00:54:44   embedding Microsoft had a series of [TS]

00:54:46   alphabet soup technologies which is [TS]

00:54:47   similar things and this is kind of I [TS]

00:54:49   believe publishing to describe it like a [TS]

00:54:50   reaction to what Microsoft was doing and [TS]

00:54:52   it never caught on very few applications [TS]

00:54:54   ever had publish and subscribe items [TS]

00:54:56   that metaphor didn't fit the reason I [TS]

00:54:57   thought of it was because I just thought [TS]

00:54:59   it was funny that so the intent is to do [TS]

00:55:03   similar things have applications [TS]

00:55:05   cooperated in a very rich way right you [TS]

00:55:07   know by the way the embedding thing or [TS]

00:55:09   the poet is described is like when you [TS]

00:55:10   updated that chart in your spreadsheet [TS]

00:55:12   it would also update in your word [TS]

00:55:13   processor and again those two [TS]

00:55:14   applications need not know anything [TS]

00:55:15   about each other they just went through [TS]

00:55:16   this API but so what Apple chose as the [TS]

00:55:20   branding and the metaphor for this [TS]

00:55:21   action was like [TS]

00:55:23   something from the world of literature [TS]

00:55:26   or print you published something and the [TS]

00:55:28   other thing subscribes to it like a [TS]

00:55:29   magazine or you or it you know it's kind [TS]

00:55:32   of kind of arty whereas Microsoft shows [TS]

00:55:35   contracts which has like a legal legal [TS]

00:55:38   connotation where well you know we're [TS]

00:55:40   we're not publishing artwork and [TS]

00:55:41   subscribing to it we're making a [TS]

00:55:43   contract because that's what we [TS]

00:55:44   understand here at Microsoft is legally [TS]

00:55:45   binding agreements between parties I [TS]

00:55:49   wonder about stuff like that word does [TS]

00:55:50   anyone think about the work did they [TS]

00:55:53   just have to pick a different name [TS]

00:55:54   because publishing the scribe was [TS]

00:55:55   already used and and that thing didn't [TS]

00:55:56   work is it I want to use that or and so [TS]

00:55:58   that's why we had to pick contracts or [TS]

00:56:00   is that the first thing that comes to [TS]

00:56:01   mind and do they think about like the [TS]

00:56:03   psychology behind their choice of names [TS]

00:56:06   it just struck me as odd but the [TS]

00:56:10   contracts technology itself I think is a [TS]

00:56:12   great thing for Apple to look at and [TS]

00:56:14   steel because one of the longest [TS]

00:56:16   standing complaints from iOS developers [TS]

00:56:17   is they want more richer better [TS]

00:56:21   cooperation between applications they're [TS]

00:56:24   all you know they're all sandbox that [TS]

00:56:25   can't touch each other stuff but [TS]

00:56:26   sometimes it makes so much sense to have [TS]

00:56:28   them talk to each other and in a way [TS]

00:56:31   that doesn't require you do it even if [TS]

00:56:32   you wrote both the applications in iOS [TS]

00:56:34   is hard it's hard to make them cooperate [TS]

00:56:35   but we the ecosystem will be better if [TS]

00:56:37   there was a standardized supported way [TS]

00:56:39   for any application to do interesting [TS]

00:56:41   things with each other and this this all [TS]

00:56:44   goes back to the sandbagging sandboxing [TS]

00:56:46   argument on the Mac and the Mac App [TS]

00:56:47   Store where people are cranky that the [TS]

00:56:49   new rules for sandboxing in the Mac App [TS]

00:56:51   Store are preventing things that used to [TS]

00:56:53   work in inter application communication [TS]

00:56:55   on the Mac using Apple events and script [TS]

00:56:57   ability and stuff like that those are [TS]

00:56:58   going away I mean while on iOS people [TS]

00:57:01   want more of that they would love to be [TS]

00:57:03   able to you know send Apple events but [TS]

00:57:06   some equivalent of talking and [TS]

00:57:08   sophisticated way between applications [TS]

00:57:10   within the rules with it you know [TS]

00:57:12   let me speak out of my sandbox let me [TS]

00:57:13   say hey I have something cool to provide [TS]

00:57:15   you or if you're a photo editing [TS]

00:57:16   application I would like to pop up a [TS]

00:57:18   menu that says would you like to edit [TS]

00:57:19   this picture in and then list all the [TS]

00:57:22   interesting photo editing applications [TS]

00:57:24   you can do that now with file types but [TS]

00:57:25   they want more complicated types of [TS]

00:57:28   arrangements and contracts provides that [TS]

00:57:29   so if and when Windows 8 actually does [TS]

00:57:32   ship I think this contract API will the [TS]

00:57:36   API itself lease will probably [TS]

00:57:38   the envy of most iOS developers of Apple [TS]

00:57:40   hasn't caught up by then that's the [TS]

00:57:41   thing about the windows a stop is [TS]

00:57:42   they're showing a product that's not [TS]

00:57:44   going to ship until like I think 2012 or [TS]

00:57:45   something I don't know how it made the [TS]

00:57:47   end of 2012 it's going to be a while [TS]

00:57:48   like they showed it long before it's [TS]

00:57:50   ready to come out so by that point you [TS]

00:57:52   know is iOS 6 out yet [TS]

00:57:53   it's 5.5 or whatever out you know it's [TS]

00:57:56   hard to compared so Microsoft is ahead [TS]

00:57:58   well my goal is not ahead until they [TS]

00:57:59   ship on an apple of shipping iOS 5 so [TS]

00:58:02   it's fair to compare iOS 5 with you know [TS]

00:58:04   you don't compare with Microsoft has now [TS]

00:58:06   so anyway I'll be interested to see how [TS]

00:58:09   how things are when this stuff actually [TS]

00:58:11   ships but I think right now Apple should [TS]

00:58:13   be that rabble should have been working [TS]

00:58:15   on this for a long time because like I [TS]

00:58:16   said it's a long-standing iOS developer [TS]

00:58:19   complaint and I think it's really [TS]

00:58:20   important because all these sandboxing [TS]

00:58:23   and security stuff that Apple is doing [TS]

00:58:25   is great but it's getting to the point [TS]

00:58:27   now where I OS developers are feeling [TS]

00:58:29   limited by by Apple's rules and so they [TS]

00:58:32   need to figure out a way to do this and [TS]

00:58:33   a mediated system a mediated defined [TS]

00:58:35   system likes contracts where it's [TS]

00:58:37   defined by the vendor and you can only [TS]

00:58:40   do a certain amount of things and you [TS]

00:58:41   have you know it's a limited API it's [TS]

00:58:43   not just like arbitrary Apple scripting [TS]

00:58:44   you know where you could your [TS]

00:58:46   application can just send an Apple event [TS]

00:58:47   to the address book and say give me all [TS]

00:58:49   your contacts lo I think you might be a [TS]

00:58:51   better ready anyway o use it three [TS]

00:58:53   different means but you can't just have [TS]

00:58:55   a wide open field like you code in the [TS]

00:58:56   Mac where any application can control [TS]

00:58:57   any other using arbitrary code but you [TS]

00:59:00   don't want everyone to be so isolated [TS]

00:59:01   well they are now more Windows 8 stuff [TS]

00:59:07   notifications was another interesting [TS]

00:59:09   yeah a place that was different they [TS]

00:59:11   made they were had a big emphasis in [TS]

00:59:13   Windows 8 to saying we don't want a junk [TS]

00:59:15   drawer of notifications and that was a [TS]

00:59:17   dig at what Apple's doing an iOS and [TS]

00:59:19   when android is always done where this [TS]

00:59:20   is thing this piece of UI you can pull [TS]

00:59:22   out the lists all your notifications and [TS]

00:59:25   iOS users who've been begging for that [TS]

00:59:27   because they hated the stupid modal [TS]

00:59:28   dialogues and if you dismiss the [TS]

00:59:29   notification it was gone forever and you [TS]

00:59:31   know oh wait what was that text I missed [TS]

00:59:33   it let me see my past six texts no and [TS]

00:59:35   so not having that it was a big deal but [TS]

00:59:40   then Microsoft comes out and says well [TS]

00:59:41   you know Apple just spent all this time [TS]

00:59:42   adding this thing we're saying that was [TS]

00:59:45   a bad idea to add that we don't want a [TS]

00:59:46   junk drawer of notifications we don't we [TS]

00:59:49   don't want this place now by using the [TS]

00:59:51   phrase [TS]

00:59:51   junk drawer it's like it's language [TS]

00:59:54   that's setting it up to be a bad thing [TS]

00:59:55   without explaining really why it's a bad [TS]

00:59:57   thing other than saying oh it's messy [TS]

00:59:58   Steve Jobs did [TS]

00:59:58   Steve Jobs did [TS]

01:00:00   the Malheur thing when he was talking [TS]

01:00:00   about the finder where there was too [TS]

01:00:02   many windows in the finder I don't want [TS]

01:00:03   to be the janitor to clean this up all [TS]

01:00:05   right so just the way of talking about [TS]

01:00:07   something there's an implied sense that [TS]

01:00:09   it's bad without a real explanation of [TS]

01:00:10   why is why is it bad to have lots of [TS]

01:00:12   windows Steve because there it's visual [TS]

01:00:14   clutter that bothers you or what if I'm [TS]

01:00:15   looking at the contents of both of those [TS]

01:00:16   windows maybe two windows isn't so bad [TS]

01:00:18   if I really need to see what's in both [TS]

01:00:19   of those windows you know what you're [TS]

01:00:21   calling clutter to dismiss it over of [TS]

01:00:23   course I wouldn't want that you know I [TS]

01:00:24   don't want to be the janitor I just want [TS]

01:00:25   to have one window right but that's [TS]

01:00:28   rephrasing in particular ways am i [TS]

01:00:30   calling this thing a junk drawer it's [TS]

01:00:31   implying that oh it's a mess and it's [TS]

01:00:34   just got a bunch of stuff jumbled in [TS]

01:00:35   there but it's you know it's really kind [TS]

01:00:37   of a time order list of things in an iOS [TS]

01:00:39   five you can pick exactly what you want [TS]

01:00:41   to appear there and how you want the [TS]

01:00:42   notification to appear it's actually [TS]

01:00:43   very flexible and powerful and I think [TS]

01:00:44   that notification your face is [TS]

01:00:47   interesting but Microsoft's philosophy [TS]

01:00:49   as in many things Windows 8 runs counter [TS]

01:00:52   to what both Android and Apple are doing [TS]

01:00:54   and saying we want our notifications to [TS]

01:00:56   be on the tiles because they have a [TS]

01:00:57   whole tile interface if you don't [TS]

01:00:58   remember what that is go back four [TS]

01:01:00   episodes listening little business on [TS]

01:01:01   tiles they say if it's important update [TS]

01:01:04   your app tile you've got this big canvas [TS]

01:01:05   on which to write stuff and you can put [TS]

01:01:08   a small thing there when they zoom in on [TS]

01:01:11   the tile you can get more information [TS]

01:01:12   and when you launch the actual [TS]

01:01:13   application you'll see the full thing I [TS]

01:01:16   like the fact that it's different and [TS]

01:01:18   I'm interested to see how that works but [TS]

01:01:20   I don't like the idea of flipping [TS]

01:01:22   through four or five screens worth of [TS]

01:01:24   tiles to check everything for [TS]

01:01:25   notification so just now what what [TS]

01:01:27   happened in the two hours since I picked [TS]

01:01:29   up my phone or my tablet having that [TS]

01:01:31   quote-unquote junk drawer full of [TS]

01:01:33   notifications is nice you know you can [TS]

01:01:35   say all here's everything that happened [TS]

01:01:37   if I have to flip through and scan every [TS]

01:01:38   tile is there a new notification there [TS]

01:01:40   no is there new notification there no it [TS]

01:01:42   would be kind of like scanning through [TS]

01:01:44   all your icons on the home screens on an [TS]

01:01:47   iOS device looking for badges and then [TS]

01:01:49   like tapping on those badges to get more [TS]

01:01:50   information that's that's an interface [TS]

01:01:52   that Apple could have gone with they [TS]

01:01:53   didn't they did they did the [TS]

01:01:54   quote-unquote junk drawer thing so every [TS]

01:01:58   very interesting to see how their [TS]

01:02:00   philosophy turns out in real life when [TS]

01:02:02   someone gets a Windows 8 tablet or [TS]

01:02:04   Windows 8 Phone do they find it better [TS]

01:02:07   that notifications appear as tiles or is [TS]

01:02:10   it what are they're going to be begging [TS]

01:02:12   for a junk drawer and again just a zap [TS]

01:02:14   is adding something Microsoft is not so [TS]

01:02:15   much taking it out but saying we're [TS]

01:02:16   never going to do that background [TS]

01:02:20   processing this is something that they [TS]

01:02:23   tiptoed around in the windows a [TS]

01:02:26   presentation they didn't want to talk [TS]

01:02:28   about like what's running or what's not [TS]

01:02:30   that's why we were having all these [TS]

01:02:31   discussions and past shows about like [TS]

01:02:33   well is the desktop environment running [TS]

01:02:34   until you launch it our different [TS]

01:02:36   support real multitasking is going to [TS]

01:02:38   kill your battery you know and they did [TS]

01:02:43   talk about in when you're in the Metro [TS]

01:02:44   land on Windows 8 with all these new [TS]

01:02:46   style applications my impression is that [TS]

01:02:51   applications are only running when [TS]

01:02:53   they're on the screen and I don't think [TS]

01:02:55   there's any guarantees that they're even [TS]

01:02:56   in RAM when they're not on the screen so [TS]

01:02:58   certainly it seems like they're [TS]

01:02:58   suspending everything except for the [TS]

01:03:00   frontmost application I mean they have [TS]

01:03:03   to be because you can't you can't just [TS]

01:03:04   do everything can multitask everywhere [TS]

01:03:06   it will destroy your battery life [TS]

01:03:07   especially when you have when one of [TS]

01:03:09   those things and the everything is a [TS]

01:03:11   full-fledged desktop environment that [TS]

01:03:12   will just it would just kill a phone [TS]

01:03:13   battery or even a tablet battery so they [TS]

01:03:17   are doing although I'm not talking about [TS]

01:03:19   as much it seems like they're doing [TS]

01:03:20   something very dissimilar to what iOS [TS]

01:03:22   does which is the front most [TS]

01:03:24   applications the only thing guaranteed [TS]

01:03:25   to be running and in memory and will try [TS]

01:03:27   to manage stuff for you behind the [TS]

01:03:28   scenes they didn't talk so much about [TS]

01:03:31   user the application developers writing [TS]

01:03:34   their applications to know how to [TS]

01:03:35   restore their state exactly to the way [TS]

01:03:37   it was which is a very important part of [TS]

01:03:38   iOS development and it's a significant [TS]

01:03:40   part like it's a significant effort to [TS]

01:03:42   make sure that if I hit the home screen [TS]

01:03:44   anywhere in your application when I real [TS]

01:03:45   aunch that application I want to bring [TS]

01:03:47   you back to right where I was before I [TS]

01:03:48   hit the home button and there's some [TS]

01:03:50   work involved in that apple provides [TS]

01:03:53   some help for you to do that but it's up [TS]

01:03:55   to the developer to do a good job on [TS]

01:03:56   that [TS]

01:03:56   that wasn't emphasized as much in the [TS]

01:03:59   Windows 8 stuff maybe they just don't [TS]

01:04:00   consider it as important but it did seem [TS]

01:04:03   to me that they were saying you're not [TS]

01:04:05   running if you're on the screen if [TS]

01:04:06   you're not on the screen and you may not [TS]

01:04:09   be in memory if you're not on the screen [TS]

01:04:12   cloud roaming before you do cloud [TS]

01:04:15   roaming let's do our third sponsor the [TS]

01:04:18   final sponsor all right [TS]

01:04:19   Shopify calm the Internet's most elegant [TS]

01:04:22   customizable an affordable hosted [TS]

01:04:23   e-commerce platform this is what I've [TS]

01:04:26   always used to sell the five [TS]

01:04:28   merchandise the t-shirts and other [TS]

01:04:30   things use it for high-velocity ears [TS]

01:04:33   before that I know a lot of other people [TS]

01:04:35   have used it too and because it's easy [TS]

01:04:37   to do you just want to sell stuff online [TS]

01:04:40   don't screw around just go to Shopify [TS]

01:04:42   calm you can sell anything it doesn't [TS]

01:04:46   matter what it is anything at all they [TS]

01:04:48   handle everything they make sure it's [TS]

01:04:50   secure they've really awesome templates [TS]

01:04:52   that are free if you want to spend a [TS]

01:04:54   little money and get a really really [TS]

01:04:56   high-end template they have a gallery of [TS]

01:04:57   them there if your designer you want to [TS]

01:05:00   design your own just use your own HTML [TS]

01:05:02   and CSS it's a piece of cake to do it [TS]

01:05:05   normally they give you a month free for [TS]

01:05:07   5x5 listeners they're giving you three [TS]

01:05:09   months free use coupon code 5x5 go to [TS]

01:05:12   Shopify com sign up three months free [TS]

01:05:14   and you can sell stuff during the three [TS]

01:05:16   months it's not like you can just set [TS]

01:05:17   something up and total your thumbs a [TS]

01:05:19   shop in minutes of business for life [TS]

01:05:22   Shopify dot-com it's easy did you give [TS]

01:05:26   him that Louis that slow go slow go I [TS]

01:05:29   gave they came up with the shop [TS]

01:05:31   administer life slow go my slow go for [TS]

01:05:34   them is uh it's easy I think uh staple [TS]

01:05:41   to somebody already how's that one [TS]

01:05:42   that's that was easy [TS]

01:05:45   Oh totally this is just it's easy yeah [TS]

01:05:48   plus when I say it I do a little karate [TS]

01:05:50   chop gesture it's easy that works really [TS]

01:05:53   well on a podcast yeah but it's part of [TS]

01:05:56   this logo alright it's tempting to makes [TS]

01:05:59   logo the title this episode but I'll [TS]

01:06:01   save that for later all right cloud [TS]

01:06:04   roaming so when Microsoft talks about [TS]

01:06:07   roaming the silliest the silliest term [TS]

01:06:11   I've ever heard did you come over then [TS]

01:06:12   it's in my notes I'm assuming I copied [TS]

01:06:15   it from something somebody said it makes [TS]

01:06:18   underling so when they talk about this [TS]

01:06:21   base people like it I think I liked it [TS]

01:06:25   and see what the audience liked it [TS]

01:06:26   because they say things that make us [TS]

01:06:29   happy just like we all liked it when [TS]

01:06:30   Apple introduced iCloud and they and the [TS]

01:06:31   things they said during the iCloud [TS]

01:06:32   presentation where the things we wanted [TS]

01:06:35   to hear that you know that they'd [TS]

01:06:39   rearranged that diagram instead of the [TS]

01:06:40   Mac being the digital hub now the [TS]

01:06:42   was the center the devices are around it [TS]

01:06:44   and this is an arrangement a mental [TS]

01:06:46   model that people who use Internet [TS]

01:06:48   services like Dropbox have long come to [TS]

01:06:50   appreciate and say yeah that's the way I [TS]

01:06:52   wanted to work that's the arrangement [TS]

01:06:53   that we like so when Apple said they're [TS]

01:06:55   going to do that it made us happy and [TS]

01:06:57   similarly when Microsoft talked about [TS]

01:06:58   this in the Windows 8 them well where [TS]

01:07:00   they said they gave some examples of [TS]

01:07:02   saying like when you finish a game level [TS]

01:07:04   on a device [TS]

01:07:05   you shouldn't have to play that same [TS]

01:07:07   level again in another device right or [TS]

01:07:08   when you change a setting on a device [TS]

01:07:10   you shouldn't have to change that [TS]

01:07:12   setting again like we do you know don't [TS]

01:07:13   remind me of this or don't show this [TS]

01:07:15   dialogue like that I don't have to [TS]

01:07:17   change that everywhere and that was that [TS]

01:07:18   was them trying to say that we think [TS]

01:07:20   everything you do should be recorded in [TS]

01:07:24   some central place and that all your [TS]

01:07:27   other devices should pull from that and [TS]

01:07:28   that's the arrangement that we all think [TS]

01:07:29   is a good idea the cloud centric [TS]

01:07:31   everything everywhere don't make me [TS]

01:07:33   repeat myself [TS]

01:07:34   don't make every single device be an [TS]

01:07:36   island and when they talk in [TS]

01:07:38   generalities like that most people like [TS]

01:07:39   thumbs up yep that's the way I want it [TS]

01:07:40   to work I love that cloud syncing stuff [TS]

01:07:42   just everything is everywhere steam does [TS]

01:07:44   that for example with the newer Steam [TS]

01:07:46   games I figure what they call they have [TS]

01:07:47   some name for it but if you set up your [TS]

01:07:49   key configuration that you like for you [TS]

01:07:51   know playing portal and you bring up [TS]

01:07:53   another machine and you install steam [TS]

01:07:55   and download portal onto it you don't [TS]

01:07:56   have to reset your key config it's [TS]

01:07:58   already there because it pulled it from [TS]

01:07:59   the cloud and we're like yes that's nice [TS]

01:08:01   because we all remember the old days of [TS]

01:08:03   having to set up the key configs and [TS]

01:08:04   every time you install it or you just [TS]

01:08:06   got a new computer replace the old one [TS]

01:08:07   it's a hassle to do that stuff you just [TS]

01:08:08   want it to work and be automatic and [TS]

01:08:12   they do something similar to iCloud [TS]

01:08:14   where they say I'm assuming this is for [TS]

01:08:16   free that every single application every [TS]

01:08:18   single Windows 8 application gets some [TS]

01:08:20   small amount of per user cloud storage [TS]

01:08:23   first for the state of the applications [TS]

01:08:25   for settings and a small amount of [TS]

01:08:26   content like it's not giving you [TS]

01:08:28   gigabytes where you can store like your [TS]

01:08:29   photos and everything but it's giving [TS]

01:08:30   you stuff for all the settings and a [TS]

01:08:32   small amount of content and enough state [TS]

01:08:34   to provide that nice syncing experience [TS]

01:08:38   yeah the Microsoft was saying all the [TS]

01:08:40   right things there and saying all the [TS]

01:08:42   right things even like we're going to [TS]

01:08:43   give you that that seems to be like the [TS]

01:08:44   the price of entry now this gets back to [TS]

01:08:47   my point for many shows ago about how [TS]

01:08:49   how data centers and server operations [TS]

01:08:53   are now just an essential part of [TS]

01:08:56   thing you do with technology like it's [TS]

01:08:58   very very hard to be it to field any [TS]

01:09:03   interesting product that does not have a [TS]

01:09:05   significant very important essential [TS]

01:09:07   server side component it's why I was [TS]

01:09:09   saying that every company in the [TS]

01:09:11   technology space needs to either have or [TS]

01:09:14   be developing good expertise in the [TS]

01:09:16   areas of service eyebrows even something [TS]

01:09:18   like I said well if you're an individual [TS]

01:09:20   app developer and you make a to-do list [TS]

01:09:21   application well the better to do this [TS]

01:09:23   application that have server components [TS]

01:09:25   you know they could just use iCloud even [TS]

01:09:27   even they just use iCloud there is a [TS]

01:09:28   server component maybe the developer [TS]

01:09:29   doesn't have to make the server [TS]

01:09:30   component but that's that adds value to [TS]

01:09:34   an application like about something like [TS]

01:09:36   Instapaper where yeah there's a client [TS]

01:09:38   application but the client application [TS]

01:09:41   is nothing without the web service [TS]

01:09:42   that's behind it and Marco had to write [TS]

01:09:44   that web service and he enhances the [TS]

01:09:46   application by enhancing the client too [TS]

01:09:48   but also by answering the web service [TS]

01:09:50   they go hand in hand you can't you know [TS]

01:09:52   you can't take away the web service so I [TS]

01:09:53   just want to write Objective C I don't [TS]

01:09:55   want to do any of that server-side stuff [TS]

01:09:56   because it's annoying and you get these [TS]

01:09:57   big traffic spikes and I have to [TS]

01:09:59   provision hardware and yeah that is hard [TS]

01:10:01   but having that expertise doing that is [TS]

01:10:03   what makes your product valuable so this [TS]

01:10:06   cloud roaming thing is yet another [TS]

01:10:08   instance apples Apple Microsoft is [TS]

01:10:10   releasing Windows 8 it's a great new [TS]

01:10:11   operating system that's got this cool [TS]

01:10:12   new UI it's got all these gestures and [TS]

01:10:14   look at all these cool devices and we've [TS]

01:10:16   got this contracts thing but oh yeah we [TS]

01:10:19   of course we have to have a server [TS]

01:10:20   component and increasingly of course [TS]

01:10:22   there has to be a free version of it [TS]

01:10:23   like maybe we'll charge you for more [TS]

01:10:24   content but it's just such an [TS]

01:10:27   entry-level feature that just every [TS]

01:10:29   application every Windows 8 application [TS]

01:10:31   gets to store their settings in the [TS]

01:10:32   cloud no no no argument no any visit [TS]

01:10:34   anyone can have it's free whatever it is [TS]

01:10:35   Windows Live ID whatever they change the [TS]

01:10:37   name to you know that's just that's just [TS]

01:10:39   the price of entry and doesn't seem like [TS]

01:10:42   a such a big deal unless you're [TS]

01:10:43   Microsoft or Apple and you realize [TS]

01:10:44   providing every application with a free [TS]

01:10:47   little bit of storage or every iCloud [TS]

01:10:50   user with free you know syncing of their [TS]

01:10:53   contacts and stuff like that well when [TS]

01:10:54   you have millions of users that becomes [TS]

01:10:56   a big deal and suddenly you're now in [TS]

01:10:58   the situation of figuring out how to run [TS]

01:11:00   giant data centers and scale them and [TS]

01:11:01   handle large traffic spikes from you [TS]

01:11:03   know Christmas morning when people get [TS]

01:11:04   stuff and that's just that's just part [TS]

01:11:06   of the industry now [TS]

01:11:09   I think Microsoft is probably well [TS]

01:11:10   equipped to do this I think they're [TS]

01:11:13   going to run into the same problems that [TS]

01:11:15   we just talked about with iCloud we're [TS]

01:11:17   all right so this sounds great and [TS]

01:11:18   everything but like to give the example [TS]

01:11:19   like when I change a setting in an [TS]

01:11:20   application I don't want to have to ever [TS]

01:11:21   change it again well what if on your [TS]

01:11:23   Windows 8 tablet you say the home screen [TS]

01:11:26   and want the tiles to be this size like [TS]

01:11:27   zoomed in because I can read the [TS]

01:11:29   notification sent or whatever but on [TS]

01:11:31   your phone you want that setting to be [TS]

01:11:33   the opposite I'm making up a setting on [TS]

01:11:34   off this is a real setting you want that [TS]

01:11:35   setting to be the opposite because the [TS]

01:11:37   screen is smaller do you have the [TS]

01:11:39   ability to say actually I would like you [TS]

01:11:41   to use a different setting based on the [TS]

01:11:43   device now normally I want you know my [TS]

01:11:45   key commands to be the same in all [TS]

01:11:46   places where I run this game in steam [TS]

01:11:47   but for some settings it's device [TS]

01:11:50   specific on my PC my Windows 8 PC I want [TS]

01:11:53   this but when is a tablet I want that [TS]

01:11:55   you know now they have a conflict like [TS]

01:11:58   what we wanted to hide all these details [TS]

01:12:00   from you it's all built into the [TS]

01:12:01   application it's up to the application [TS]

01:12:02   developers to use our API stew right to [TS]

01:12:04   the cloud but does not the application [TS]

01:12:06   developer have to provide some setting [TS]

01:12:08   that says are when you go to the [TS]

01:12:10   settings application all right well [TS]

01:12:11   change is setting on and then a sub [TS]

01:12:14   setting that says but only on this [TS]

01:12:16   computer right like you're you're opting [TS]

01:12:19   out of the cloud syncing for that [TS]

01:12:20   particular setting or something like [TS]

01:12:21   that it becomes very complicated where [TS]

01:12:23   you're merging settings together where [TS]

01:12:25   these settings are you know what I want [TS]

01:12:27   my default to be this but if I don't [TS]

01:12:28   override in this particular device I [TS]

01:12:30   want it to be that that that gets into [TS]

01:12:33   stuff that only programmers want to [TS]

01:12:35   think about but it's a complication of [TS]

01:12:36   cloud syncing I just don't think every [TS]

01:12:38   one people have got it figured out yet [TS]

01:12:40   Dropbox like well grandpa's got to [TS]

01:12:42   figured out they do have a simpler [TS]

01:12:43   scenario they just deal with files last [TS]

01:12:45   updater wins they don't prompt you for [TS]

01:12:47   conflicts though but they do create [TS]

01:12:48   those little I don't know Maura Marco I [TS]

01:12:50   don't know if Merlin's ever seen this [TS]

01:12:51   but I see it a lot because I am NOT [TS]

01:12:53   careful with how I use Dropbox where you [TS]

01:12:55   get the it'll be the filename of the [TS]

01:12:57   document and then it will add [TS]

01:12:58   parenthesis deleted in some big hex [TS]

01:13:01   number have you ever seen that in [TS]

01:13:02   Dropbox well to pee I mean at which [TS]

01:13:06   point you'll be editing a document like [TS]

01:13:08   oh and then you'll see it usually it [TS]

01:13:10   seems to happen after you save it well [TS]

01:13:13   what I'll get is I'll be editing a [TS]

01:13:15   document on my Mac at home and grok will [TS]

01:13:17   be synced and everything and then I'll [TS]

01:13:19   go to work and edit that same document [TS]

01:13:20   but I'll happen to catch it before it's [TS]

01:13:21   like fully synced or something [TS]

01:13:23   and when I come back home Oh wake my Mac [TS]

01:13:25   up from sleep the document has been [TS]

01:13:26   renamed in Dropbox to have parentheses [TS]

01:13:28   deleted some hexadecimal no you know I [TS]

01:13:31   have seen that but it's been a long time [TS]

01:13:33   since I've seen that I have seen it in [TS]

01:13:34   the past and that's its that's dropboxes [TS]

01:13:37   way only it's really really big father [TS]

01:13:39   right [TS]

01:13:40   no no small file like this like they're [TS]

01:13:42   just my show notes because I update [TS]

01:13:43   shows and you know the other thing I get [TS]

01:13:45   the same thing and to happen a lot yeah [TS]

01:13:47   because I'm constantly doing [TS]

01:13:49   simultaneous updating when one computer [TS]

01:13:50   is asleep and so you end up with a [TS]

01:13:53   situation where there's a conflict and [TS]

01:13:54   Dropbox says well I don't want to [TS]

01:13:55   overwrite your changes like I'm not [TS]

01:13:56   going to make the document that you have [TS]

01:13:58   open suddenly disappear and change [TS]

01:13:59   because it's different but I've got to [TS]

01:14:01   sync the newer one from Dropbox so I'll [TS]

01:14:03   just rename yours go off to the side and [TS]

01:14:05   then I have to kind of do my manual [TS]

01:14:07   merge of the two things if I was [TS]

01:14:09   interested in that data or just say oh [TS]

01:14:10   yeah oh that's old I don't care about [TS]

01:14:11   that I duplicated that work elsewhere if [TS]

01:14:14   that problem still exists and you do see [TS]

01:14:17   it if you push it too hard and get into [TS]

01:14:19   situations where again where Dropbox is [TS]

01:14:21   assumptions like you know that your [TS]

01:14:22   computers are always online and we can [TS]

01:14:24   resolve these conflicts sometimes they [TS]

01:14:25   do just get things out of sync and it [TS]

01:14:27   just does that for you and that regular [TS]

01:14:29   user store they have no idea why that [TS]

01:14:30   said parentheses deleted or maybe they [TS]

01:14:32   continue editing that because it'll save [TS]

01:14:33   that parenthesis deleted one in your [TS]

01:14:35   Dropbox and sync it like any other file [TS]

01:14:36   but then when you having a looking [TS]

01:14:37   Dropbox fold you're like why are the [TS]

01:14:39   three of these files and two of them [TS]

01:14:40   have this weird thing in parentheses at [TS]

01:14:42   the end you know it's something that [TS]

01:14:45   people may not be prepared to deal with [TS]

01:14:47   but but it exists but Dropbox I think [TS]

01:14:48   has the simplest problem where there's [TS]

01:14:49   like we just deal with files and [TS]

01:14:51   contents those files we have no [TS]

01:14:52   awareness of them it's much much harder [TS]

01:14:54   when you're an application developer and [TS]

01:14:56   you have things mean stuff like you have [TS]

01:14:57   settings that mean things and some [TS]

01:14:59   settings make sense to be global don't [TS]

01:15:01   make sense to be goal but you don't want [TS]

01:15:02   to burden the user with dealing with [TS]

01:15:03   that and you want to do what the [TS]

01:15:04   platform vendor says to make everything [TS]

01:15:06   sink but then your users complain that [TS]

01:15:08   it's weird yeah so this is a a frontier [TS]

01:15:13   of UI development of figuring out the [TS]

01:15:15   best balance between not troubling [TS]

01:15:17   people with things we're not supposed to [TS]

01:15:18   worry about and making them feel safe [TS]

01:15:20   for their data is safe but also not [TS]

01:15:22   annoying people with a pervasive [TS]

01:15:24   sameness across all devices for things [TS]

01:15:27   that you know might want to be different [TS]

01:15:28   in different contexts [TS]

01:15:33   I still skip to the end of this thing I [TS]

01:15:35   was good they talked about Auto save and [TS]

01:15:36   save stadia they're similar in Apple [TS]

01:15:38   MetroCard they want you to alter save [TS]

01:15:40   and they want you to save state and [TS]

01:15:41   resume we talked about that it's to [TS]

01:15:47   larger points that I want to make about [TS]

01:15:49   the Metro stuff okay one is I was [TS]

01:15:54   thinking about and a lot of people talk [TS]

01:15:56   about this but Android and Metro and [TS]

01:15:58   Windows 8 and stuff like that where they [TS]

01:16:00   say well what Apple is doing where for a [TS]

01:16:04   long time that wasn't even any [TS]

01:16:05   multitasking and now it's really limited [TS]

01:16:07   to multitasking and all these really [TS]

01:16:09   harsh rules they have to keep things [TS]

01:16:11   responsive and to keep the battery life [TS]

01:16:13   up something I've seen online in a few [TS]

01:16:15   places has been and I thought of it [TS]

01:16:17   myself has been the idea that this is [TS]

01:16:20   what's making Apple's devices better now [TS]

01:16:22   and the people but the people who are [TS]

01:16:24   taking the opposite approach like [TS]

01:16:25   Android just letting everything run at [TS]

01:16:26   once and having the process killers in [TS]

01:16:28   Windows 8 saying you know this is an [TS]

01:16:29   operating system that runs on desktops [TS]

01:16:31   all the way down to phones and we're [TS]

01:16:34   going to let everything run in the [TS]

01:16:35   background when it's on the desktop and [TS]

01:16:36   stuff did that strategy although [TS]

01:16:39   detrimental now in the long run will be [TS]

01:16:43   the clear winner because the hardware [TS]

01:16:46   available on phones bloated Vance just [TS]

01:16:48   like it did on the on the PC we kind of [TS]

01:16:51   like we set back the clock or like a [TS]

01:16:52   rewinding five years but in five more [TS]

01:16:54   years our phones will be as powerful as [TS]

01:16:57   our PCs are now and our PCs can handle [TS]

01:17:00   they have the CPU they have the memory [TS]

01:17:01   and stuff like that so this these rules [TS]

01:17:03   that apples coming up with now for [TS]

01:17:05   limiting things they're not stuck [TS]

01:17:07   because I can just relax the rules later [TS]

01:17:09   and they have a better they have better [TS]

01:17:10   experience now but in the end you know [TS]

01:17:12   everything wall running ones just like a [TS]

01:17:13   dozen of PC we just got away for the [TS]

01:17:14   hard way to catch up and my objection to [TS]

01:17:17   that was always been that's all well and [TS]

01:17:20   good for RAM and CPU and everything else [TS]

01:17:22   but where you run into problems is [TS]

01:17:24   battery battery in the physical size so [TS]

01:17:28   this is some physics going on here where [TS]

01:17:30   what is the best how much energy can we [TS]

01:17:32   store in it in a particular volume right [TS]

01:17:36   and at what rate is that increasing you [TS]

01:17:41   know also we're going to have tiny [TS]

01:17:42   nuclear reactors inside of tiny fusion [TS]

01:17:44   reactors and inside there that are just [TS]

01:17:46   burning matter directly into energy yeah [TS]

01:17:48   like battery technology is woefully [TS]

01:17:50   inefficient in the you know equals [TS]

01:17:52   mc-squared sense and my question my sort [TS]

01:17:56   of rhetorical question myself was like [TS]

01:17:57   well so what does that curve look like [TS]

01:17:59   compared to the curve for CPU speed RAM [TS]

01:18:01   density and stuff like that and I always [TS]

01:18:04   thought that that would be the limiter [TS]

01:18:06   that Apple strategy is actually going to [TS]

01:18:10   be with us for a long time simply [TS]

01:18:12   because battery technology is not [TS]

01:18:14   advancing at the same rate as those [TS]

01:18:16   other technologies as the density of [TS]

01:18:18   transistors on silicon and CPU speed and [TS]

01:18:21   all that business the battery technology [TS]

01:18:24   is just going slower now there are a [TS]

01:18:27   couple of links that I found there there [TS]

01:18:30   was like a the Moore's law off for [TS]

01:18:32   batteries it was kind of like saying [TS]

01:18:34   well here's the curve for batteries and [TS]

01:18:35   actually it was surprisingly optimistic [TS]

01:18:38   but I don't think it was as fast as the [TS]

01:18:41   Moore's law for silicon and actually [TS]

01:18:43   people said the Moore's law for silicon [TS]

01:18:44   we were in for some trouble ahead as we [TS]

01:18:46   reach the limitations of the wavelength [TS]

01:18:48   of the light we're using for lithography [TS]

01:18:49   and people looking into x-ray [TS]

01:18:51   lithography and you get these 3d [TS]

01:18:52   transistors like we're pushing up [TS]

01:18:53   against some limits and our current [TS]

01:18:55   technique for manufacturing silicon [TS]

01:18:58   meanwhile apparently battery technology [TS]

01:19:00   has been you know I'm sure due to [TS]

01:19:02   massive investment on the amount of [TS]

01:19:03   money involvement but making some pretty [TS]

01:19:05   good strides so it'll be interesting to [TS]

01:19:06   see how how that shakes out will battery [TS]

01:19:10   technology for our lifetime be the big [TS]

01:19:12   limiter and make Apple strategy the [TS]

01:19:15   long-term winner at least in our in our [TS]

01:19:18   lifetime and that they'll never Apple [TS]

01:19:20   never relax all those restrictions so [TS]

01:19:21   always have some restrictions in there [TS]

01:19:23   because you just can't make you know the [TS]

01:19:25   batteries can't hold enough energy and [TS]

01:19:26   as low powered as you make stuff you [TS]

01:19:30   can't make you can't make the components [TS]

01:19:31   so low power that they don't need a [TS]

01:19:32   certain size of battery and you can't [TS]

01:19:34   make the battery any bigger because it's [TS]

01:19:35   it's clumsy and people don't like that [TS]

01:19:38   even today we're so I see so many people [TS]

01:19:40   who buy this $200 iPhone plus a two-year [TS]

01:19:43   contract worth thousands right at sleek [TS]

01:19:46   and it's small and what's the first [TS]

01:19:47   thing you do they slap on this lumpy [TS]

01:19:49   Quasimodo backpack full of battery that [TS]

01:19:52   makes it thing the size of a bar of a [TS]

01:19:54   soap but they need to do that because [TS]

01:19:55   they say well I need to be you know I [TS]

01:19:57   need to wake up at 6 a.m. and I'm still [TS]

01:19:59   working at 9 a.m. or [TS]

01:20:00   my business travel or something I just [TS]

01:20:01   can't have this better your honor out so [TS]

01:20:02   I gotta get this Mophie Juice pack pack [TS]

01:20:04   box whatever thing that's just what [TS]

01:20:06   they've got to do it's great that they [TS]

01:20:08   can do that but it shows that even in [TS]

01:20:11   even with today's trade offs even with [TS]

01:20:12   today's strict rules about multitasking [TS]

01:20:14   and real limitations people still want [TS]

01:20:16   more battery life and so battery [TS]

01:20:18   technology is not keeping up with their [TS]

01:20:20   demands like if Apple if Apple could [TS]

01:20:22   provide a battery that provided 12 hours [TS]

01:20:24   of web browsing on their phone they [TS]

01:20:25   would do it like believe me they would [TS]

01:20:27   do it [TS]

01:20:27   currently the only way to do that is you [TS]

01:20:29   need more volume sorry bad technology is [TS]

01:20:31   such that even if we made the entire [TS]

01:20:33   iPhone out of battery nothing else was [TS]

01:20:35   in is just a simply a battery we still [TS]

01:20:37   couldn't provide you with enough energy [TS]

01:20:38   and it to a good approximation that's [TS]

01:20:41   what the iPad is if you open it up it's [TS]

01:20:42   just basically a giant battery with a [TS]

01:20:44   screen attached to it and then these [TS]

01:20:45   little dangly bits off to the side [TS]

01:20:47   iPhone is mostly battery but you're [TS]

01:20:50   getting down to small sizes where now [TS]

01:20:51   the screen and the CPU starts to become [TS]

01:20:53   a significant portion of the thing an [TS]

01:20:55   apple so far has not been willing to [TS]

01:20:57   make things thicker like if you look [TS]

01:20:58   inside an iPhone 4 the battery takes up [TS]

01:21:01   like the one half of the thing but the [TS]

01:21:03   battery doesn't run the full width and [TS]

01:21:05   the full height of the case you Apple [TS]

01:21:07   wanted to they can make the entire case [TS]

01:21:08   you know four millimeters thicker and [TS]

01:21:10   make a full height full with battery [TS]

01:21:12   covering the entire back of the thing [TS]

01:21:13   maybe they'd have some problems with the [TS]

01:21:15   Wi-Fi antenna do something good I know [TS]

01:21:17   but yet that low battery would last a [TS]

01:21:18   lot longer but the thing would start to [TS]

01:21:19   look more like a bar of soap and Alba [TS]

01:21:21   doesn't want to do that so this tension [TS]

01:21:23   between how fast can battery technology [TS]

01:21:26   advanced versus how how fast can the [TS]

01:21:29   other components advanced is going to [TS]

01:21:31   determine whether Microsoft and Android [TS]

01:21:35   will have to rethink their idea of even [TS]

01:21:38   having a possibility of just everything [TS]

01:21:39   running in like desktop mode you know [TS]

01:21:41   like you know Windows 8 tablet oh we can [TS]

01:21:43   get a big hunk in 14-inch Windows 8 [TS]

01:21:45   tablet but a huge battery in there and [TS]

01:21:47   then ever you and when your desktop [TS]

01:21:47   stuff and how long does that last is [TS]

01:21:49   last it suddenly become like a laptop [TS]

01:21:51   battery you know three hours four hours [TS]

01:21:53   that like people would find that [TS]

01:21:54   unacceptable if you had a tablet or the [TS]

01:21:57   battery lasted three hours now the only [TS]

01:21:59   reason we accept it on laptops is [TS]

01:22:00   because we're just used to it that's how [TS]

01:22:01   it's always been right so that's that's [TS]

01:22:06   my battery oh my open question on [TS]

01:22:07   battery technology I got to put those [TS]

01:22:09   links in the show notes do thee the [TS]

01:22:11   Moore's law for batteries curves [TS]

01:22:13   and the next the final thing is that [TS]

01:22:17   looking at Metro windows Metro that UI [TS]

01:22:22   it really is the antithesis of typical [TS]

01:22:25   Microsoft design which is why people are [TS]

01:22:27   so excited about it it is just [TS]

01:22:28   everything removed no shading no [TS]

01:22:32   artificial 3d no no giggles no widgets [TS]

01:22:36   flat stuff nice typography emphasis in [TS]

01:22:40   typography plain colors and just a clean [TS]

01:22:45   look and looking at Metro maybe I [TS]

01:22:48   mentioned this on a previous show I'm [TS]

01:22:49   just iterating it by looking at Metro it [TS]

01:22:52   made am I looking back in iOS it made I [TS]

01:22:54   always look old to me which is it's a [TS]

01:22:56   pretty pretty amazing achievement yes [TS]

01:22:58   usually what Apple does with its [TS]

01:23:00   products right like they come out with a [TS]

01:23:02   new product and you look at the old one [TS]

01:23:04   you like all that space crap or like [TS]

01:23:06   looking back at 10.3 with those [TS]

01:23:08   pinstripes in Mac os10 right yeah I got [TS]

01:23:10   how did I ever stare at the screen this [TS]

01:23:12   is hideous these drawers and the [TS]

01:23:13   pinstripes like it makes you it's it's [TS]

01:23:15   fashion fashion makes you feel that way [TS]

01:23:17   like how did I ever wear those [TS]

01:23:17   bell-bottoms but how did I ever have a [TS]

01:23:19   mullet you know alright so that I think [TS]

01:23:24   is quite an achievement and that gets [TS]

01:23:27   back to the whole skeuomorphic if I'm [TS]

01:23:29   pronouncing that correctly the whole [TS]

01:23:30   business of Apple loves to make its you [TS]

01:23:32   eyes look like things like the reminder [TS]

01:23:33   things with the time they look like [TS]

01:23:34   those flippy over clocks where if the [TS]

01:23:36   numbers slipped down and around uh I [TS]

01:23:39   wonder if Apple will feel any pressure [TS]

01:23:41   because there is now a competitor who [TS]

01:23:43   regardless of how they do in the market [TS]

01:23:45   the look of their products makes apples [TS]

01:23:47   products look older and clunkier and I [TS]

01:23:51   can't remember the last time that [TS]

01:23:52   happened certainly it wasn't happening [TS]

01:23:53   with Android and herb is not making [TS]

01:23:54   apple stuff look older and clunkier but [TS]

01:23:56   this just through sheer simplification [TS]

01:23:58   is saying hey Apple if we just fast [TS]

01:24:01   forward your timeline given current [TS]

01:24:03   trends your UI should look like this [TS]

01:24:05   later because historically Apple has [TS]

01:24:07   with berries bumps in the road removed [TS]

01:24:09   stuff like that removed texture remove [TS]

01:24:12   attacks kind of reversing now is this is [TS]

01:24:13   a lump and this is definitely a bump in [TS]

01:24:15   the road they went way they remove [TS]

01:24:16   remove remove moved all the way up like [TS]

01:24:18   Mike I was 10.5 leopard and then they [TS]

01:24:20   started adding back with ten seven and [TS]

01:24:22   with the leather bits on the calendar [TS]

01:24:25   and a linen pattern and then I [TS]

01:24:26   OS 5 they're adding back like we had [TS]

01:24:28   pretty clean buttons in earlier iOS but [TS]

01:24:30   now that lending texture is everywhere [TS]

01:24:32   and our applications have these weird [TS]

01:24:33   papyrus looks and there's leather on [TS]

01:24:35   stuff too and this little the flippy I [TS]

01:24:37   wish I knew what the name of those bar [TS]

01:24:38   you know the the digits where they have [TS]

01:24:40   half the digit on one side and half [TS]

01:24:42   digit in the other when they flip over [TS]

01:24:43   no I'm not I know exactly what you mean [TS]

01:24:45   flicker digit I don't know the technical [TS]

01:24:48   term is flippy digits but yeah but [TS]

01:24:51   adding like think about that they're [TS]

01:24:52   adding that in there because someone [TS]

01:24:53   thought it was like whimsical and [TS]

01:24:54   interesting but it makes its heavyweight [TS]

01:24:57   like you look at it in like the mental [TS]

01:24:58   weight of that stuff this is all artsy [TS]

01:25:00   fartsy designer e type stuff but there [TS]

01:25:02   it I think anyone who's a designer or [TS]

01:25:05   someone who's into aesthetics looks at [TS]

01:25:07   that and then looks at the metro stop [TS]

01:25:08   and the metro stuff is like oh that's [TS]

01:25:09   like a breath of fresh air right and now [TS]

01:25:11   it may you may like the Apple one better [TS]

01:25:13   and it certainly is also the best [TS]

01:25:15   looking flippy digits I've ever seen [TS]

01:25:16   right there the artwork is amazing and [TS]

01:25:18   it is interesting and it's and it's fun [TS]

01:25:20   and it's familiar to people and maybe [TS]

01:25:22   it's a more successful design but the [TS]

01:25:25   feeling you get as an artist or designer [TS]

01:25:27   or someone who's into these things when [TS]

01:25:28   you look at metro and that is one of [TS]

01:25:30   them feels like weight being lifted off [TS]

01:25:33   your shoulders design wise and [TS]

01:25:35   historically Apple has always been the [TS]

01:25:37   company that gives you that feeling you [TS]

01:25:39   look at Windows then you go to Mac OS 10 [TS]

01:25:40   you be like ah nice just finally what [TS]

01:25:43   stuff is gone look at 16 color icons [TS]

01:25:46   sharp edges [TS]

01:25:46   all right great pebbles and stuff right [TS]

01:25:48   and this is this is a flip interesting [TS]

01:25:52   flip that I still think I like the way [TS]

01:25:53   iOS 5 looks better but here is another [TS]

01:25:56   competitor UI that they seemed very [TS]

01:25:58   competitive to giving me the feeling [TS]

01:26:01   that normally Apple gives me this may [TS]

01:26:03   have no significance because obviously [TS]

01:26:05   the other factors will determine the [TS]

01:26:07   success of Windows 8 in the market much [TS]

01:26:09   more than this but it is a turn of [TS]

01:26:11   events that I noted yeah put a marker in [TS]

01:26:14   the in the timeline of a technology [TS]

01:26:16   battle here marker on Microsoft giving [TS]

01:26:19   me the Apple feeling for the first time [TS]

01:26:21   so you're switching no I don't have an [TS]

01:26:25   iPhone switching for what happen yeah [TS]

01:26:27   there is one more minor point that I'll [TS]

01:26:29   squeeze in here that Horus brought up [TS]

01:26:31   from ages ago and I had in my notes [TS]

01:26:32   forever I got to find it [TS]

01:26:33   his point was about there's still no [TS]

01:26:36   competition for the iPod Touch which is [TS]

01:26:39   amazing because the iPod this is from [TS]

01:26:40   tweet of his iPod to apple sold 4.1 [TS]

01:26:42   million iPod Touches last quarter and 23 [TS]

01:26:45   million iPod Touches in the last 12 [TS]

01:26:46   months nobody else wants a piece of that [TS]

01:26:48   nobody else thinks that they can sell 23 [TS]

01:26:50   million phone without a phone products [TS]

01:26:52   alright that's pretty amazing that for [TS]

01:26:56   all this time Android and Windows 8 and [TS]

01:26:58   Windows Mobile and whatever Windows [TS]

01:27:00   Phone 7 nobody wants that like we make [TS]

01:27:02   phones we make tablets there's nothing [TS]

01:27:05   technically preventing them from making [TS]

01:27:06   an iPod Touch is basically iPhone [TS]

01:27:09   without the phone with a bunch of parts [TS]

01:27:11   you know cheap and up because you can't [TS]

01:27:13   you know the subsidy from the phone [TS]

01:27:14   thing they could make that it's within [TS]

01:27:15   their technological grasp but nobody [TS]

01:27:17   doesn't and it's not all we don't think [TS]

01:27:19   it's a good miss 23 million units in a [TS]

01:27:20   year you can turn up your nose at that [TS]

01:27:22   nobody wants to make that uh I think one [TS]

01:27:25   of the interesting things about the why [TS]

01:27:27   is that why are they make it it shows [TS]

01:27:28   that the weaknesses of those platforms [TS]

01:27:30   because the reason Apple can make it is [TS]

01:27:32   it even without the phone and without [TS]

01:27:34   the always avail always online stuff [TS]

01:27:36   they have so many other strengths in the [TS]

01:27:38   media world where they can make that [TS]

01:27:40   device what can you do with that you can [TS]

01:27:42   play games in your house you can you can [TS]

01:27:43   download and watch movies you can listen [TS]

01:27:45   to music is it's an iPod all those media [TS]

01:27:47   and application things make that thing [TS]

01:27:49   worthwhile it's why I use it all the [TS]

01:27:50   time so yeah I use it on Wi-Fi and I can [TS]

01:27:52   do my web browsing because it has a [TS]

01:27:53   great web browser I can play games and [TS]

01:27:56   run local applications and even if it's [TS]

01:27:59   not online all the time and I can [TS]

01:28:00   download media from store and buy things [TS]

01:28:02   and watch movies and stuff like that the [TS]

01:28:06   only other company that I think has [TS]

01:28:07   those same strengths and canfield device [TS]

01:28:09   like that is Amazon what would you do [TS]

01:28:11   with an Amazon thing the size of an iPod [TS]

01:28:14   touch it didn't have any sort of 3G Anna [TS]

01:28:16   you still do all the stuff you could do [TS]

01:28:17   with it with the fire you read books on [TS]

01:28:18   it watch movies watch TV shows and [TS]

01:28:20   hopefully eventually download [TS]

01:28:22   applications but Android I think the [TS]

01:28:25   Android vendors are like if we put out [TS]

01:28:28   an Android phone that doesn't have a [TS]

01:28:29   phone what are people gonna do with it [TS]

01:28:30   go to the awesome Android store and buy [TS]

01:28:33   first-run movies that are at you know [TS]

01:28:35   download music from our music store and [TS]

01:28:38   listen to stuff or play games like yeah [TS]

01:28:41   you can play Angry Birds you can [TS]

01:28:42   probably download a couple movies or if [TS]

01:28:44   you're a geek you can you know download [TS]

01:28:46   and rip and shove stuff on it because [TS]

01:28:47   it's all open and everything but that's [TS]

01:28:49   not that that market is too small it's [TS]

01:28:51   not 23 but 23 million people don't know [TS]

01:28:53   to download torrents and more we stick [TS]

01:28:56   them on their Android thing so I've [TS]

01:28:57   always considered the lack of an iPod [TS]

01:28:59   Touch competitor as as an admission by [TS]

01:29:02   the competition that their devices are [TS]

01:29:04   not valuable enough without the phone [TS]

01:29:06   functionality to be a standalone product [TS]

01:29:07   or at least they think it is maybe [TS]

01:29:08   they're wrong maybe it really would be a [TS]

01:29:10   great seller if someone would just make [TS]

01:29:11   one and there were like Samsung or a [TS]

01:29:14   couple of people have had ipod touch [TS]

01:29:16   competitor like devices you could argue [TS]

01:29:18   that 7-inch tablets or creeping down to [TS]

01:29:20   that thing - I think they even fielded [TS]

01:29:21   one like I don't remember the names like [TS]

01:29:23   the galaxy something-or-other blah blah [TS]

01:29:25   was like it was like a Samsung phone [TS]

01:29:27   without the phone but didn't didn't set [TS]

01:29:29   the world on fire right yeah so I the [TS]

01:29:33   lack of iPod Touch competitors is [TS]

01:29:34   something I will continue to watch and [TS]

01:29:36   what it says about the competition's [TS]

01:29:38   confidence and the actuality of their [TS]

01:29:40   ability to compete with Apple I think is [TS]

01:29:43   very interesting we were over time but I [TS]

01:29:47   think I probably finally I skipped a [TS]

01:29:49   bunch of Windows 8 stuff believe it or [TS]

01:29:51   not actually skip our tablet yeah I [TS]

01:29:52   think we're done with it finally and [TS]

01:29:57   then next week if no one else dies or no [TS]

01:30:00   other major software is released or no [TS]

01:30:03   one else is interesting podcast that I [TS]

01:30:04   want to comment on I'll talk about what [TS]

01:30:07   ails Microsoft all right what else [TS]

01:30:09   Microsoft potentially seven days for now [TS]

01:30:12   and if you're new to this show you can [TS]

01:30:14   go to 5x5 odd TV slash hypercritical [TS]

01:30:17   there's not including this 138 episodes [TS]

01:30:20   for you to get caught up on how many how [TS]

01:30:23   many would they have to listen to a day [TS]

01:30:25   between now in the next week to get [TS]

01:30:26   fully caught up you know I recently [TS]

01:30:28   caught up on a podcast that I hadn't [TS]

01:30:30   realized existed and it takes a long [TS]

01:30:32   time to get caught up on yes but it's [TS]

01:30:34   worth it just resign yourself to not [TS]

01:30:36   being caught up for six months and just [TS]

01:30:37   go through it let's go sir get kana [TS]

01:30:39   every excuse to work out a little longer [TS]

01:30:42   welcome to treadmill a little bit longer [TS]

01:30:43   when we listen to one episode a day or [TS]

01:30:45   lengthen your commute perhaps take the [TS]

01:30:48   take the scenic route someone in the [TS]

01:30:50   chat room gives the name of the thing [TS]

01:30:51   was called the Galaxy player yes that [TS]

01:30:52   was the thing I was thinking of huh yes [TS]

01:30:54   it counts but that's on 23 million of [TS]

01:30:56   them a year okay so uh let's see [TS]

01:31:04   siracusa on twitter SI RAC USA I'm Dan [TS]

01:31:11   Benjamin on Twitter and lots of good [TS]

01:31:15   shows for you and 5x5 should go there [TS]

01:31:18   and comparable that's a good one to get [TS]

01:31:21   caught up on you're John siracusa in a [TS]

01:31:23   whole different whole different way [TS]

01:31:25   whole different light seems a whole [TS]

01:31:27   similar not really you really come out [TS]

01:31:30   of your shell on that show mm-hm you [TS]

01:31:32   were on fire today though here this is a [TS]

01:31:36   good one just one for the record books [TS]

01:31:38   today alright well thanks everybody for [TS]

01:31:42   tuning in and we will be back next week [TS]

01:31:44   have a good week John you do [TS]

01:31:46   [Music] [TS]

01:32:08   you [TS]