38: Virtually Spotless


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:03   this is hyper critical to weekly [TS]

00:00:05   talkshow ruminating on exactly what is [TS]

00:00:07   wrong in the world of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:08   technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

00:00:10   so perfect that it can't be complained [TS]

00:00:11   about buying my co-host John siracusa [TS]

00:00:15   I'm Dan Benjamin [TS]

00:00:16   today is October 14th 2011 this is [TS]

00:00:19   episode number 38 our two sponsors are [TS]

00:00:24   easy DNS comm and Rackspace comm tell [TS]

00:00:27   you more about them as we continue on [TS]

00:00:30   with this program Jon siracusa how are [TS]

00:00:33   you I'm doing fine you sound good you [TS]

00:00:36   sound well yeah I've gotten sick yet but [TS]

00:00:39   I'm getting there well you have kids [TS]

00:00:41   kids around the world they catch her [TS]

00:00:43   here everyone in the family of the flu [TS]

00:00:46   shot now I think except for me oh how [TS]

00:00:50   effective for those I've heard the [TS]

00:00:51   different things about the efficacy of [TS]

00:00:53   the flu shot [TS]

00:00:54   I tell from year to year I've been [TS]

00:00:57   getting them pretty much since I've had [TS]

00:00:58   kids and I haven't noticed a big [TS]

00:01:01   difference I still always get a cold or [TS]

00:01:03   several of them during the winter oh [TS]

00:01:04   that's a cold that's not the fairs that [TS]

00:01:05   well maybe it would be worse you know I [TS]

00:01:07   I can't tell the difference I don't [TS]

00:01:08   think a flu shot does anything for a [TS]

00:01:10   cold and you can yeah you probably don't [TS]

00:01:11   believe medicine work theater so of [TS]

00:01:13   course I do but I'm saying why would a [TS]

00:01:14   flu shot protect you from the cold well [TS]

00:01:17   it's just protecting you against one [TS]

00:01:18   particular strain of virus and so maybe [TS]

00:01:21   you don't get that strain of you the flu [TS]

00:01:22   shot but there are other strains I guess [TS]

00:01:24   they're less severe or I don't know [TS]

00:01:26   sometimes they make the flu shot wrong [TS]

00:01:27   where they try to predict what strain it [TS]

00:01:29   will be and they get it wrong but I [TS]

00:01:30   figure it's better than nothing no it's [TS]

00:01:32   I'm not saying don't do it I'm saying I [TS]

00:01:33   wouldn't expect any protection from the [TS]

00:01:35   common cold from a flu shot I don't know [TS]

00:01:38   I I still get sick during the winter but [TS]

00:01:42   I survive [TS]

00:01:46   losers are all did you ready for some [TS]

00:01:49   follow-up I would love that [TS]

00:01:51   some follow-up is piling up I keep [TS]

00:01:53   skipping over wheat well last week last [TS]

00:01:56   week there was good reason to do [TS]

00:01:57   something different but let's just start [TS]

00:01:59   with the follow-up then let's start [TS]

00:02:01   start with it I'm looking into these [TS]

00:02:02   links that you put in here yeah last [TS]

00:02:04   week push a lot of stuff out yeah [TS]

00:02:06   actually I just look at the links to it [TS]

00:02:07   this is the problem I put these links in [TS]

00:02:08   and then during the show I forget to [TS]

00:02:10   look at the page where I put the links [TS]

00:02:11   in and then I I skip over stuff [TS]

00:02:13   all right so I'll do a limited selection [TS]

00:02:16   to follow up okay so this is a one from [TS]

00:02:19   a couple weeks ago I think I just never [TS]

00:02:22   got to there was a New York Times story [TS]

00:02:24   I think it was just on the online site [TS]

00:02:26   not on the paper I don't I don't [TS]

00:02:28   actually know I only see the online [TS]

00:02:29   version it was part of a larger section [TS]

00:02:32   about cooking and the little mini [TS]

00:02:34   article was called why is my toaster so [TS]

00:02:35   bad and I put a link in the show notes I [TS]

00:02:38   feel this is partial vindication of my [TS]

00:02:40   toaster obsession it's a very short [TS]

00:02:41   article it just explains toaster seemed [TS]

00:02:43   like we used to be better and now [TS]

00:02:46   they're not anymore [TS]

00:02:47   the article didn't extrapolate from that [TS]

00:02:50   like we did in the show about that they [TS]

00:02:52   worse and more diverse that the you know [TS]

00:02:53   consumer electronics and other products [TS]

00:02:55   are expanding in the variety of options [TS]

00:02:57   you have but decreasing in quality sort [TS]

00:03:00   of a race to the bottom type things this [TS]

00:03:01   little snippet did not go into that but [TS]

00:03:03   I do feel partially vindicated that [TS]

00:03:04   something appeared in The New York Times [TS]

00:03:05   having to do with low quality of [TS]

00:03:06   toasters this is one of your ghost [TS]

00:03:09   writing pieces no I would have been much [TS]

00:03:12   more severe than than this thing so it's [TS]

00:03:14   just like I think it's like maybe it was [TS]

00:03:16   in there Sunday frilly magazine [TS]

00:03:20   lifestyle help you know it's not it's [TS]

00:03:22   not it's not on the news page on the [TS]

00:03:26   link in the show notes by the way when [TS]

00:03:27   you click on it it brings up this big [TS]

00:03:28   interactive thing that has multiple [TS]

00:03:30   sections the first section is Canada [TS]

00:03:33   candid inner party be stress-free that's [TS]

00:03:35   not the one you want you have to click [TS]

00:03:36   on a little sidebar I tried very hard to [TS]

00:03:38   get a URL that would bring you to that [TS]

00:03:39   sidebar being clicked but short of me [TS]

00:03:41   writing a big long JavaScript thing I [TS]

00:03:43   wasn't happening so you'll have to click [TS]

00:03:45   on why is my toaster so bad it's the [TS]

00:03:46   second item down on the left side I [TS]

00:03:50   wanted so we talked a little bit about [TS]

00:03:52   my family my mother calling me about the [TS]

00:03:55   Steve Jobs thing and and last show where [TS]

00:03:57   we talked about that stuff and I did [TS]

00:04:00   have another story about my mother that [TS]

00:04:01   I want to share hmm during that same [TS]

00:04:03   conversation she mentioned I was talking [TS]

00:04:06   we're talking about the podcast and she [TS]

00:04:08   actually listens to the podcast and she [TS]

00:04:10   I always tell her that I think it's kind [TS]

00:04:11   of silly for her to listen because we're [TS]

00:04:12   talking about a lot of technical stuff [TS]

00:04:14   that she's not interested in at all and [TS]

00:04:15   really has no background in of course [TS]

00:04:18   she listen just because I'm her son [TS]

00:04:20   right and she said well actually learn [TS]

00:04:22   stuff from your podcasts do things that [TS]

00:04:23   I didn't know I can follow along and I [TS]

00:04:25   learn new information and she said for [TS]

00:04:26   instance and [TS]

00:04:27   recent show I learned about that when [TS]

00:04:29   you mentioned about that wiggle mode on [TS]

00:04:30   iOS devices yeah she learned about that [TS]

00:04:33   she said I never knew that's what that [TS]

00:04:36   thing was when they when the little [TS]

00:04:38   icons are wiggling and everything you [TS]

00:04:39   could rearrange them and stuff like that [TS]

00:04:40   and no Bret this is someone who has had [TS]

00:04:43   an iPod Touch since the first generation [TS]

00:04:45   and uses mostly iPod touches my sister [TS]

00:04:49   has one she has one and she said that [TS]

00:04:52   every time she saw that she thought [TS]

00:04:54   she'd done something bad and the same [TS]

00:04:55   thing to do when my sister would see my [TS]

00:04:57   mother would tell her maybe maybe you [TS]

00:04:58   messed something up why are they shaking [TS]

00:05:00   and eventually they would just like pull [TS]

00:05:02   out it and figure out how to stop the [TS]

00:05:03   thing from shaking but first of all I [TS]

00:05:06   feel like this is a personal failing [TS]

00:05:07   that my my own mother my family didn't [TS]

00:05:09   know what that was I guess you could [TS]

00:05:12   accidentally activate it if you just if [TS]

00:05:13   you tap just a little bit too long or [TS]

00:05:15   you're lazy you don't lift your finger [TS]

00:05:16   up right and then it goes into the [TS]

00:05:17   wiggle mode for a range in yes but her [TS]

00:05:20   conception of how computers work was [TS]

00:05:23   that this I guess that this that these [TS]

00:05:25   little shaking icons weren't something [TS]

00:05:26   that had to be explicitly programmed by [TS]

00:05:28   someone but it was like a an outward [TS]

00:05:30   symptom of something that had gone wrong [TS]

00:05:32   the things she compared to was like in a [TS]

00:05:34   Windows NT you remember when you put in [TS]

00:05:36   the bad username and password and the [TS]

00:05:37   little thing would shake back and forth [TS]

00:05:39   next did that too right this Windows NT [TS]

00:05:40   do that I know next did I don't know I [TS]

00:05:42   don't think so all right well I like Mac [TS]

00:05:46   West does not go as 10 still do it - [TS]

00:05:47   this is where you rent prompted for a [TS]

00:05:49   username and password to log in you put [TS]

00:05:51   in bad information and the the little [TS]

00:05:53   thing that you type the username and [TS]

00:05:54   password and shakes back and forth [TS]

00:05:55   really fast like it's shaking its head [TS]

00:05:57   and so she thought this was some [TS]

00:05:59   manifestation of the iPod telling her [TS]

00:06:02   know you've done something wrong or I'm [TS]

00:06:04   about to explode or I'm about to cry [TS]

00:06:06   right it's like please stop yeah please [TS]

00:06:08   guy I guess you didn't notice the little [TS]

00:06:10   X's that suddenly appear oh if anything [TS]

00:06:12   that's like a big warning like don't [TS]

00:06:14   don't touch me yeah sorry it just goes [TS]

00:06:19   to show don't assume and this is someone [TS]

00:06:22   who's used Mac since the original Mac [TS]

00:06:24   we've add Mac's our entire life she has [TS]

00:06:26   iOS devices and she uses them all the [TS]

00:06:28   time just type odds it's not like she's [TS]

00:06:30   unfamiliar with Apple technology I just [TS]

00:06:33   don't know how someone can use an iPod [TS]

00:06:35   Touch for however many years she's been [TS]

00:06:37   using it and not not noted a success [TS]

00:06:43   let's see what do we have next [TS]

00:06:45   I'll tell you something that's funny [TS]

00:06:47   about that wiggle wiggle mode widow mode [TS]

00:06:50   if you you can go into the maybe you've [TS]

00:06:55   done this with your iPod Touches that [TS]

00:06:57   you give to your kids but we haven't in [TS]

00:07:01   raishin iPad that my boy uses and I'd [TS]

00:07:03   he'd see would delete apps sometimes and [TS]

00:07:06   then he would get yeah I don't think he [TS]

00:07:08   did it on purpose or if he did he was [TS]

00:07:09   just you know he was experimenting not [TS]

00:07:11   knowing that if he puts it into wiggle [TS]

00:07:13   mode and then presses the X that the app [TS]

00:07:15   will be gone I don't think he knew what [TS]

00:07:17   that was I think he just was [TS]

00:07:18   experimenting with it and deleted [TS]

00:07:20   deleted some apps that he won that he [TS]

00:07:22   wanted [TS]

00:07:23   so there there are settings of course [TS]

00:07:28   that you can parental control settings [TS]

00:07:29   and things like that that allow you to [TS]

00:07:31   prevent your children from deleting an [TS]

00:07:34   app and I had enabled a whole bunch of [TS]

00:07:36   parental controls not only because I [TS]

00:07:38   didn't want to buying things because I [TS]

00:07:39   didn't want him deleting apps and then [TS]

00:07:41   getting upset and saying daddy where's [TS]

00:07:42   my spongebob app and what's interesting [TS]

00:07:45   is it you can still put it into wiggle [TS]

00:07:47   mode but the little X's don't appear it [TS]

00:07:50   just they just wiggle and you can [TS]

00:07:52   rearrange them but you can't can't [TS]

00:07:53   delete anything [TS]

00:07:54   so that might also be good as a a [TS]

00:07:58   parental control in the other sense of [TS]

00:08:00   the word yeah that's the other common [TS]

00:08:02   joke parental controls right for parents [TS]

00:08:04   to protect your children but really it's [TS]

00:08:05   mostly for older children to configure [TS]

00:08:08   devices so that parents can't screw them [TS]

00:08:10   up right like what was that called [TS]

00:08:12   simple finder where you just had the big [TS]

00:08:15   clicky button to valincia there was also [TS]

00:08:17   a tease member at ease at ease yeah [TS]

00:08:19   basically big punk and juicy bevel [TS]

00:08:21   buttons there those simple finder - you [TS]

00:08:25   know my mother always of when I teased [TS]

00:08:27   her about these things she always says [TS]

00:08:29   someday this will be you your children [TS]

00:08:30   will be making fun of you and you won't [TS]

00:08:33   know how to work there that's true I [TS]

00:08:35   tell her this is not true yeah never [TS]

00:08:37   this will never be true and I will be [TS]

00:08:39   sad of the day if this day ever comes [TS]

00:08:41   that my children can beat me in video [TS]

00:08:43   games but I will forestall that day but [TS]

00:08:47   I don't think there ever be a day where [TS]

00:08:49   I just am as incompetent in technology [TS]

00:08:52   as are the generation product [TS]

00:08:54   there are sizing I think there are [TS]

00:08:56   certain things though like I'll give you [TS]

00:08:58   an example [TS]

00:08:58   my grandfather um very very smart man he [TS]

00:09:02   was uh he was a scientist he was a [TS]

00:09:04   metallurgist he you know very very smart [TS]

00:09:08   analytical uh incredibly you know gifted [TS]

00:09:12   mind and when he was when he was you [TS]

00:09:16   know probably in his 70s 60s or 70s [TS]

00:09:19   remember web TV remember that thing I do [TS]

00:09:22   unfortunately he got one of these things [TS]

00:09:25   and he worked I mean he knew how to work [TS]

00:09:27   he had no computer experience or [TS]

00:09:29   anything he worked at just fine but like [TS]

00:09:30   there were little things in there that I [TS]

00:09:32   remember would throw him off like for [TS]

00:09:33   example when you know how when you see [TS]

00:09:35   an email chain or if you were to forward [TS]

00:09:37   something how it might append a [TS]

00:09:39   signature to the bottom of the email [TS]

00:09:42   like there are settings that would would [TS]

00:09:44   get around this but people I guess we're [TS]

00:09:46   sending him things an email and their [TS]

00:09:49   signatures would be appended to the [TS]

00:09:50   bottom of it and to him this was [TS]

00:09:53   puzzling he's like it are these people [TS]

00:09:54   trying to take credit you know like [TS]

00:09:55   somebody would send him the body of an [TS]

00:09:57   article that they would like for him to [TS]

00:09:59   read and at the bottom it would have [TS]

00:10:00   that person's name he'd be like does [TS]

00:10:01   that mean the person wrote it or thought [TS]

00:10:03   they wrote it like little details like [TS]

00:10:05   that there's sort of the culture that [TS]

00:10:08   surrounds technology I think as an older [TS]

00:10:11   person John you might not understand you [TS]

00:10:13   might not get it you might understand [TS]

00:10:15   the technology involved but I think [TS]

00:10:19   eventually they will be beating you at [TS]

00:10:21   videogames some that will just come from [TS]

00:10:23   hand-eye coordination deterioration with [TS]

00:10:25   age I'm sure that will happen but I'm [TS]

00:10:26   saying I won't be like afraid of [TS]

00:10:29   technology or not an abuser now someone [TS]

00:10:31   in the world and the chat room Adamo [TS]

00:10:33   wolf says that technology will be [TS]

00:10:35   something completely different than we [TS]

00:10:36   can conceive of and that it's happened [TS]

00:10:37   every generation before us I disagree [TS]

00:10:39   with that actually I think there's just [TS]

00:10:40   a couple of inflection points there's [TS]

00:10:41   pre and post Industrial Revolution where [TS]

00:10:44   you were like farmers and whatever and [TS]

00:10:45   then there was machines and in that [TS]

00:10:47   generation if you if your parents grew [TS]

00:10:48   up in the sort of a gray and rural [TS]

00:10:51   reindustrialization age they don't [TS]

00:10:54   understand this huge influx of new [TS]

00:10:55   machines and gadgets and technology and [TS]

00:10:57   manufacturing and interchangeable parts [TS]

00:10:59   and all that business right so that was [TS]

00:11:00   one inflection point and I think there [TS]

00:11:01   was a stretch there where from one [TS]

00:11:03   generation to the next there wasn't this [TS]

00:11:04   huge leap you know fathers and sons both [TS]

00:11:07   like the tinkerer with internal [TS]

00:11:08   engines and that stay the same for a [TS]

00:11:10   while and the second inflection point is [TS]

00:11:12   Turing machines uh you know transistors [TS]

00:11:16   silicon chips basically where suddenly [TS]

00:11:18   they started to infect everything and [TS]

00:11:20   that was a new thing where we can make [TS]

00:11:21   these very very very tiny electronic [TS]

00:11:24   machines you know but on printed circuit [TS]

00:11:26   boards and microchips and stuff like [TS]

00:11:27   that and that infected everything so [TS]

00:11:29   then you had one generation who didn't [TS]

00:11:30   have to deal with computers and [TS]

00:11:31   microchips and next generation where [TS]

00:11:32   they were everywhere so that if the [TS]

00:11:34   father and son both loved internal [TS]

00:11:35   combustion engines the father would [TS]

00:11:36   bemoaned the fact that now we can't work [TS]

00:11:37   on his car because you need a $10,000 [TS]

00:11:39   special car computer to hook up to it to [TS]

00:11:41   do anything useful right except for [TS]

00:11:43   change the oils and the spark plugs and [TS]

00:11:44   stuff like that so that's the second [TS]

00:11:46   inflection point I think we were born [TS]

00:11:48   just that the second inflection point [TS]

00:11:50   was happening and we are acclimated to [TS]

00:11:51   and we're used to keeping up with it and [TS]

00:11:53   I think we'll be fine as long as there's [TS]

00:11:54   not a third inflection point in our [TS]

00:11:55   lifetime or a third inflection point it [TS]

00:11:57   could be something like biological based [TS]

00:11:59   technology or gene splicing or something [TS]

00:12:00   that we're not it didn't happen in our [TS]

00:12:02   formative years that we're not prepared [TS]

00:12:04   to deal but and then you know if our [TS]

00:12:05   kids are using these genetically [TS]

00:12:07   modifying themselves to use a neural [TS]

00:12:09   implants already but I I think that [TS]

00:12:10   stuff is so far off we don't have to [TS]

00:12:11   worry so I think that our generation is [TS]

00:12:14   safe and we will aside from the just the [TS]

00:12:17   typical of like getting physically less [TS]

00:12:19   able not being able to see small text on [TS]

00:12:21   screen just a physical deterioration of [TS]

00:12:22   aging that we'll have to deal with [TS]

00:12:23   obviously there'll be that but not so [TS]

00:12:25   much the inability to understand to keep [TS]

00:12:30   up with technology because we're on top [TS]

00:12:31   of it we're going to do you envision a [TS]

00:12:33   time will you just stop paying attention [TS]

00:12:34   to the stuff and does not be interested [TS]

00:12:36   in at all and not keep up anymore and be [TS]

00:12:37   like yeah whatever I have now is fine [TS]

00:12:39   I'm not going to look at it again and [TS]

00:12:40   then your son or grandson will have [TS]

00:12:42   something and you'll have no idea what [TS]

00:12:43   it is I just don't see that happening I [TS]

00:12:45   don't see it happening but you know it's [TS]

00:12:47   hard to predict what's gonna happen 20 [TS]

00:12:49   30 40 years from now and where your [TS]

00:12:50   interests will be you think after you [TS]

00:12:53   retire that you'll still follow [TS]

00:12:55   technology the way that you do now yeah [TS]

00:12:57   and I use but in the thing I wrote about [TS]

00:12:59   Steve Jobs I mentioned my grandfather [TS]

00:13:01   and he he was one of the big reasons [TS]

00:13:03   that I got a Mac in the family he got a [TS]

00:13:05   Mac first and then we got ours shortly [TS]

00:13:07   after after seeing his and he kept up [TS]

00:13:09   with technology basically till the day [TS]

00:13:11   he died it was on top of it all and this [TS]

00:13:12   is someone who didn't grow up with [TS]

00:13:14   technology who worked for the Navy his [TS]

00:13:15   whole life and worked with his hands and [TS]

00:13:17   his hobby was woodworking so it's not [TS]

00:13:18   you know I think it's in my genes and I [TS]

00:13:21   think it'll definitely be on top of it [TS]

00:13:23   that was a big sidebar let's continue [TS]

00:13:26   with faux all right go ahead there's a [TS]

00:13:28   couple people complaining about my could [TS]

00:13:30   care less couldn't care less thing which [TS]

00:13:32   is really your could care less couldn't [TS]

00:13:33   care less thing because you were the one [TS]

00:13:34   who supposedly says it more often but I [TS]

00:13:36   don't know and I could care less about [TS]

00:13:38   that I know yes and what I said [TS]

00:13:41   I've talked to some people about it over [TS]

00:13:43   email a lot of them are disappointed [TS]

00:13:44   that I was so lacks on it and my point [TS]

00:13:46   in the previous thing was that the not [TS]

00:13:48   to the side of the fact that speech and [TS]

00:13:51   writing is about communication the [TS]

00:13:53   message that some people were getting [TS]

00:13:54   from that though was that I think it's [TS]

00:13:56   okay to say could care less in that and [TS]

00:13:58   that I do it willingly and I'm not [TS]

00:13:59   worried about I try not to do it I'm [TS]

00:14:01   trying to avoid saying this I would [TS]

00:14:02   suggest that you not be inaccurate like [TS]

00:14:04   this [TS]

00:14:05   all I was saying was that when I make [TS]

00:14:06   this mistake which happens from time to [TS]

00:14:08   time I'm not as upset about it as some [TS]

00:14:10   other people seem to be because in this [TS]

00:14:12   particular instance I think everybody [TS]

00:14:14   knows what I mean and one of the other [TS]

00:14:16   instances that was brought up is the [TS]

00:14:17   misuse of literally you know other [TS]

00:14:18   people you see a lot of jokes made about [TS]

00:14:20   that or that same thing with the [TS]

00:14:22   unnecessary quotation marks and signs [TS]

00:14:24   and the use of the word literally to be [TS]

00:14:26   mean the opposite I think that one is [TS]

00:14:27   much worse and if I found myself ever [TS]

00:14:29   doing that when I'd be much more [TS]

00:14:30   concerned simply because there's no good [TS]

00:14:34   alternative and you're squat you're [TS]

00:14:35   squatting on a legitimate meaning [TS]

00:14:37   whereas I was saying that I have never [TS]

00:14:38   heard anybody say I could care less to [TS]

00:14:40   mean anything other than I couldn't care [TS]

00:14:42   less but then some people said well [TS]

00:14:43   that's not actually true because then I [TS]

00:14:44   think was someone from England said in [TS]

00:14:46   my country people actually do say I [TS]

00:14:47   could care less to mean the opposite of [TS]

00:14:49   I couldn't care less [TS]

00:14:50   and by perverting that meaning you are [TS]

00:14:52   squatting on top of a perfectly good [TS]

00:14:54   phrase that other people want to use I I [TS]

00:14:58   don't hear that in the u.s. like someone [TS]

00:15:00   says I couldn't care less than someone [TS]

00:15:01   says well I could I maybe it happens I [TS]

00:15:04   don't know but anyway that the point I [TS]

00:15:06   get across is that I am NOT for saying [TS]

00:15:09   things incorrectly it's just I think [TS]

00:15:11   there is a continuum of how bad it is [TS]

00:15:14   and I was saying I don't beat myself up [TS]

00:15:16   as bad about saying could care less if I [TS]

00:15:18   do it once in a while as I would if I [TS]

00:15:20   found myself standing saying something [TS]

00:15:22   that I think is worse yes no not we're [TS]

00:15:25   not going to talk about flammable and [TS]

00:15:26   inflammable s Williams in the chat room [TS]

00:15:29   try to get off these uh grammar [TS]

00:15:31   arguments so [TS]

00:15:34   one more one more follow-up so we've [TS]

00:15:37   talked a lot about television that was [TS]

00:15:38   our number one and TiVo and my [TS]

00:15:40   complaints about TiVo and all that stuff [TS]

00:15:42   and I was on the TiVo website recently [TS]

00:15:44   trying to look up when the premiere of [TS]

00:15:46   The Walking Dead is I think it's [TS]

00:15:48   actually in two days so I have to make [TS]

00:15:50   sure my Tebow is going to get twice I [TS]

00:15:52   was going to the website because [TS]

00:15:53   sometimes it's the reason I go to the [TS]

00:15:54   website because it's so much faster to [TS]

00:15:57   do anything a jewel something is new [TS]

00:15:59   anything through through the website and [TS]

00:16:01   the website isn't great actually what I [TS]

00:16:03   showed you just done is typed walking [TS]

00:16:05   dead in Google and you know hit return [TS]

00:16:07   pick the first link and then I could see [TS]

00:16:09   when the show was premiering but I [TS]

00:16:10   wanted to like make sure I had a season [TS]

00:16:11   pass schedule so I was going through the [TS]

00:16:12   website because it's infinitely faster [TS]

00:16:13   use my browser even on TiVo's somewhat [TS]

00:16:16   pokey website than it is to flip around [TS]

00:16:18   with a stupid remote and I saw on their [TS]

00:16:21   website when I was there that they have [TS]

00:16:22   a new T Bo premiere product I don't know [TS]

00:16:24   how old this is made have been around [TS]

00:16:26   for a while so I apologize so this is [TS]

00:16:27   all news to everybody else but it is the [TS]

00:16:29   TiVo premiere elite if you recall the [TS]

00:16:31   TiVo premier is new skinnier model but [TS]

00:16:33   has the flash interface that's [TS]

00:16:34   horrendously slow and it's filled with [TS]

00:16:37   advertisements and it's just worse in [TS]

00:16:39   pretty much every possible way than the [TS]

00:16:42   previous interface despite the fact that [TS]

00:16:44   it is finally in HD which is another [TS]

00:16:46   embarrassment I don't go back into my [TS]

00:16:48   TiVo complaints but it's good that was a [TS]

00:16:50   good episode so I looked at the TiVo [TS]

00:16:52   premiere and I looked at the specs on [TS]

00:16:55   the site and here are the their [TS]

00:16:56   relevance specs what makes this the [TS]

00:16:59   elite one I'm just waiting for a TiVo [TS]

00:17:00   Premiere Elite Pro Gold anyway has four [TS]

00:17:04   tuners instead of two which is good I [TS]

00:17:06   guess I don't buttons will feel like I'm [TS]

00:17:07   limited by two tuners but occasionally [TS]

00:17:09   I'm have two tuners in use it has two [TS]

00:17:12   terabytes hard drive instead of one so [TS]

00:17:14   it's 300 hours of HD programming which [TS]

00:17:16   is nice bigger hard drives become [TS]

00:17:17   available it's nice that they're using [TS]

00:17:18   them it has one gig of ram instead of [TS]

00:17:20   512 again nice to see at evil actually [TS]

00:17:22   bumping the hardware specs in their [TS]

00:17:24   machine instead of shipping the same [TS]

00:17:25   cruddy stuff sure but the very next [TS]

00:17:28   thing I did when I saw the read those [TS]

00:17:30   specs is I went to Google and typed [TS]

00:17:32   I was like TiVo premiere elite faster [TS]

00:17:36   I'd wanted to see this is all I need to [TS]

00:17:37   know is so so you got all the stuff is [TS]

00:17:39   this thing faster than the other one or [TS]

00:17:41   faster or speed versus all the one and I [TS]

00:17:43   found a good length that I put in the [TS]

00:17:44   show notes of someone the board was the [TS]

00:17:47   name [TS]

00:17:47   your L era I shouldn't let this thing [TS]

00:17:49   happen why the tebow elite is so much [TS]

00:17:54   faster than the TiVo premier that is [TS]

00:17:57   music to my ears that is the exact your [TS]

00:17:59   exact URL that I want and here's a quote [TS]

00:18:01   from that URL it says it says it boots [TS]

00:18:05   in half the time which I really care [TS]

00:18:06   about is on every boot but then it says [TS]

00:18:07   you can move through the menus virtually [TS]

00:18:09   lag free we really like free exactly [TS]

00:18:13   what I wanted to hear because my main [TS]

00:18:14   complaint is it's the interface is so [TS]

00:18:15   horrendously slow I also would like it [TS]

00:18:17   if they got rid of all the stupid ads [TS]

00:18:18   everywhere and it wasn't flash and all [TS]

00:18:20   these other things right now I read that [TS]

00:18:23   and I was very happy but then I also [TS]

00:18:24   thought about the old cascade dishwasher [TS]

00:18:26   detergent head you remember those [TS]

00:18:27   cascade gauges get to your dishes [TS]

00:18:29   virtually spotless I remember that yeah [TS]

00:18:32   and that you know virtually spotless [TS]

00:18:33   means your dishes have spots on them [TS]

00:18:36   that's the that's the that's the literal [TS]

00:18:38   translation oh yeah [TS]

00:18:40   so I read again you move through the [TS]

00:18:43   menus virtually like phrase it means [TS]

00:18:45   they're still egg and I don't know but [TS]

00:18:47   but it does mean that it's faster than [TS]

00:18:48   the old ones so I'm excited to see one [TS]

00:18:50   of these in the wild and try flipping [TS]

00:18:52   through the menus and see if it doesn't [TS]

00:18:53   make me want to gouge my eyes out so I'm [TS]

00:18:56   glad the TiVo is doing something instead [TS]

00:18:58   of simply going out of business I am NOT [TS]

00:19:01   glad that they continued to put ads all [TS]

00:19:03   over their interface and generally be [TS]

00:19:05   dumb that I also got these TiVo [TS]

00:19:07   engagement and engagement TiVo survey [TS]

00:19:09   things that you can sign up for where [TS]

00:19:11   they send you something once a month or [TS]

00:19:12   so and you answer survey questions that [TS]

00:19:14   has the most in named things and they [TS]

00:19:16   have little comment boxes but it's like [TS]

00:19:17   how often to use the TiVo website [TS]

00:19:19   have you found our support on the TV [TS]

00:19:20   website helpful have used our live chat [TS]

00:19:22   support no just make your product better [TS]

00:19:25   about you know what do you think we [TS]

00:19:27   should do this and I remember the only [TS]

00:19:29   good question I ever had was once is you [TS]

00:19:30   think we should would you like a way to [TS]

00:19:33   to not ever show you anything at [TS]

00:19:36   standard-def but just show you high def [TS]

00:19:37   unless there's no high def equivalent or [TS]

00:19:38   something I admitted even s that I was [TS]

00:19:40   like yes you should have done this years [TS]

00:19:41   ago your interface should be in HD you [TS]

00:19:43   should not show me standard def as an HD [TS]

00:19:45   equivalent I don't care what channel [TS]

00:19:47   things are on find it for me huh I don't [TS]

00:19:49   want to get into it again let me go [TS]

00:19:50   upset yeah so TiVo continues to lurch [TS]

00:19:56   forward I'm cautiously optimistic that [TS]

00:19:58   the Premier elite will be better I hope [TS]

00:20:00   so for you [TS]

00:20:01   for the world and more for you yeah but [TS]

00:20:05   I'll tell you what we stopped usin we [TS]

00:20:07   stopped using our TiVo you just have all [TS]

00:20:10   the kids stuff on Netflix now on [TS]

00:20:11   streaming streaming and we do have it [TS]

00:20:13   like a cable company provided DVR that [TS]

00:20:16   you know you're it's a fad but it's [TS]

00:20:19   faster and that's the thing is like [TS]

00:20:20   getting through those menus the system [TS]

00:20:22   it bogged down and the we I had an [TS]

00:20:26   external do you say eSATA or SATA no I I [TS]

00:20:32   would have had an answer before you [TS]

00:20:34   before you said both of them but now my [TS]

00:20:35   brain is conflicted well they I don't [TS]

00:20:37   say it at all but yeah I know what you [TS]

00:20:38   mean the eSATA drive that I had added to [TS]

00:20:40   it the external drive started to have [TS]

00:20:42   problems like it it you know the TiVo [TS]

00:20:48   would boot and then it got into a cycle [TS]

00:20:51   where it just kept rebooting and kept [TS]

00:20:52   rebooting like and after like the tenth [TS]

00:20:55   time of it rebooting I disconnected the [TS]

00:20:58   drive and a booted fine and told me that [TS]

00:20:59   the drive had been disconnected and if I [TS]

00:21:01   wanted to go forward without the drive [TS]

00:21:02   connected that it would whatever [TS]

00:21:05   whatever the TiVo does to marry what's [TS]

00:21:07   on the drive with what's on its internal [TS]

00:21:09   drive it's sort of irreversible once you [TS]

00:21:13   disconnect it and tell it to go forward [TS]

00:21:14   and I said okay and it lost all the [TS]

00:21:17   content that had been shared or split [TS]

00:21:20   across those drives and so I plugged the [TS]

00:21:23   drive into the machine the Mac Pro that [TS]

00:21:24   I bought from Marco has an eSATA I'll [TS]

00:21:28   say it the other way just so that I'll [TS]

00:21:30   be right half the time an eSATA port on [TS]

00:21:33   the back of it so I connected the drive [TS]

00:21:34   to that booted up the machine looked at [TS]

00:21:36   what was on the drive it seemed fine it [TS]

00:21:37   had no errors reformatted it started [TS]

00:21:41   trying to you know do a do a clone to it [TS]

00:21:44   because I figured that would put it [TS]

00:21:45   through its paces using SuperDuper to [TS]

00:21:47   clone the internal drive and halfway [TS]

00:21:50   through it just sort of went [TS]

00:21:51   unresponsive so I set out so you know [TS]

00:21:53   I'm sure it's something wrong with the [TS]

00:21:55   drive and packed up the TiVo and put it [TS]

00:21:57   away really it's sad that this is [TS]

00:22:01   supposed like nice appliance device is [TS]

00:22:03   supposed to be easy to use is actually [TS]

00:22:04   harder to use than if it was actually [TS]

00:22:06   just a media PC type setup because it [TS]

00:22:09   was a PC it would have a file system you [TS]

00:22:11   understood it would not be this weird [TS]

00:22:12   proprietary non updated [TS]

00:22:14   you know Linux thing but the if it was [TS]

00:22:16   just it was just a commodity product [TS]

00:22:20   that happened to be configured to do to [TS]

00:22:22   record television course it can't be [TS]

00:22:23   because it's got abuses CableCARD crap [TS]

00:22:24   and you have to get all these things [TS]

00:22:26   hoops you have to jump through to [TS]

00:22:27   support cable card and it just said when [TS]

00:22:30   something that's supposed to be I plug [TS]

00:22:32   it in it just works when it when it goes [TS]

00:22:34   wrong I don't think that we should even [TS]

00:22:36   allowed this external SATA stuff but [TS]

00:22:37   when it goes wrong you're stuck with the [TS]

00:22:39   situation where you even with extensive [TS]

00:22:42   skills with regular computers you can't [TS]

00:22:44   revive the thing like you have to send [TS]

00:22:46   away for the special boot disks if your [TS]

00:22:47   boot disk goes bad because it's gotta [TS]

00:22:48   have the special TiVo software on it I [TS]

00:22:50   don't like it [TS]

00:22:51   that's why I so wish that Apple would [TS]

00:22:55   make one of these things but they don't [TS]

00:22:56   want to and we discuss that re so I [TS]

00:23:00   think you put the Siri video Jason [TS]

00:23:02   Snell's Siri demo video in the show [TS]

00:23:04   notes yeah I watched that video on the [TS]

00:23:08   series stuff people I've gotten feedback [TS]

00:23:10   in both directions some people saying [TS]

00:23:12   that they think there will be a series a [TS]

00:23:14   clash and that they understand what I [TS]

00:23:16   was saying about it not being AI but [TS]

00:23:19   people not understanding that other [TS]

00:23:20   people are saying it really is AI you [TS]

00:23:21   don't understand how good it is and the [TS]

00:23:22   people in the middle who are saying I [TS]

00:23:25   it's not going to be as bad as you think [TS]

00:23:27   people will understand the limitations [TS]

00:23:29   and there won't be it won't be a big [TS]

00:23:31   deal so a lot of people saw that Siri [TS]

00:23:33   video the Jason Snell did Bri sits there [TS]

00:23:35   talking to the phone for 11 minutes or [TS]

00:23:36   so and showing you what it can do and [TS]

00:23:39   the people who thought Siri was going to [TS]

00:23:41   be a disaster and the people who thought [TS]

00:23:43   Syria is going to be awesome both cite [TS]

00:23:45   that video as proving their point I say [TS]

00:23:48   look how great Siri is in the same exact [TS]

00:23:49   video the people will say look at this [TS]

00:23:50   it shows you were right about Syria but [TS]

00:23:52   a disaster to clarify I don't think Siri [TS]

00:23:55   is going to be a disaster I think I [TS]

00:23:56   tried to emphasize in the past show I [TS]

00:23:58   think it will be extremely useful [TS]

00:24:01   I mean ignoring the dictation thing [TS]

00:24:03   alone which is just a huge boon where [TS]

00:24:05   you if you don't want to tap something [TS]

00:24:06   out with your fingers you can just speak [TS]

00:24:07   it up and I use speech recognition on my [TS]

00:24:09   Mac all the time and it's great so I [TS]

00:24:11   love that one on the phone I think it's [TS]

00:24:13   going to be extremely efficient to be [TS]

00:24:15   able to do stuff like do little [TS]

00:24:16   reminders or set alarms and stuff like [TS]

00:24:18   that without having to tap type on your [TS]

00:24:20   phone without having to put your greasy [TS]

00:24:21   little fingers on there you just have to [TS]

00:24:23   use speech for it what I was afraid of [TS]

00:24:25   is that people don't understand that [TS]

00:24:28   Siri is not human level intelligent [TS]

00:24:30   people confused when I said AI they're [TS]

00:24:32   like well of course is artificial [TS]

00:24:33   intelligence that's what Siri is look at [TS]

00:24:35   these articles it comes from SR riots [TS]

00:24:36   from military research it's hard to put [TS]

00:24:38   when I when I say artificial [TS]

00:24:39   intelligence I know I'm sort of [TS]

00:24:40   overloading the term there I mean like [TS]

00:24:43   human level artificial intelligence like [TS]

00:24:45   it's another sentient being that you can [TS]

00:24:47   talk with and that sounds silly with [TS]

00:24:49   like of course it's not it's not you [TS]

00:24:51   know we don't have a technology it's [TS]

00:24:52   it's just a computer program it's not an [TS]

00:24:54   actual person but I'm afraid that many [TS]

00:24:57   consumers don't understand that and [TS]

00:24:59   actually it's kind of an uncanny valley [TS]

00:25:00   type thing you know when it's when is [TS]

00:25:02   nothing like a person people like all at [TS]

00:25:03   really like a machine alright but as it [TS]

00:25:06   approaches something that appears to be [TS]

00:25:08   intelligent people will make that leap [TS]

00:25:11   and say oh I this is just a person I can [TS]

00:25:13   talk to whoever I want and they will [TS]

00:25:14   inevitably get to a situation where they [TS]

00:25:16   say something that another human would [TS]

00:25:17   understand perfectly but Siri doesn't [TS]

00:25:19   understand that again not talking about [TS]

00:25:20   the recognition of their speech into [TS]

00:25:22   text and talking about just the [TS]

00:25:23   semantics like Siri doesn't understand [TS]

00:25:25   what they meant or Siri does something [TS]

00:25:26   unexpected and then that's that's [TS]

00:25:28   jarring to them because they thought [TS]

00:25:29   they were talking with this little [TS]

00:25:31   intelligent you know being inside the [TS]

00:25:33   phone room and then they're yanked right [TS]

00:25:35   out of that illusion when it does [TS]

00:25:37   something stupid and they said this [TS]

00:25:38   serie is so stupid and the more times it [TS]

00:25:40   does that they feel betrayed by this [TS]

00:25:42   thing that they thought was like a [TS]

00:25:44   little person and so instead of being [TS]

00:25:47   impressed as they were that wow this is [TS]

00:25:49   I'm talking to my phone it's [TS]

00:25:51   understanding me and doing what I want [TS]

00:25:53   they it's like a backlash and they say I [TS]

00:25:56   thought it was doing what I wanted but [TS]

00:25:58   now I realize it's really stupid and [TS]

00:26:00   they'll say what it's someone at [TS]

00:26:01   somebody think of serials a series so [TS]

00:26:02   dumb I said something the other day and [TS]

00:26:04   it did something totally random and it's [TS]

00:26:06   so stupid that's the kind of backlash [TS]

00:26:08   you get it's not a rational response to [TS]

00:26:10   the quality of the product it's an [TS]

00:26:12   irrational response to their [TS]

00:26:13   expectations being raised well above [TS]

00:26:15   where they should have been and then [TS]

00:26:16   come crashing back down some other [TS]

00:26:18   people had issues with my suggestion [TS]

00:26:21   that it was like a text adventure and I [TS]

00:26:22   said no Siri understands all sorts of [TS]

00:26:23   different syntaxes you don't have to [TS]

00:26:24   phrase things in a certain way you can [TS]

00:26:26   which mix up your words [TS]

00:26:27   Jason snow in his video does the Yoda [TS]

00:26:30   type speech to show that it still [TS]

00:26:31   understands that when you you know I [TS]

00:26:33   think people are perhaps under [TS]

00:26:34   estimating text adventure games better [TS]

00:26:36   the better interactive fiction can [TS]

00:26:38   understand many more complicated [TS]

00:26:40   arrangements of sentences than [TS]

00:26:41   the very original text adventure games I [TS]

00:26:44   wasn't really talking about that people [TS]

00:26:45   are gonna have to learn that to speak in [TS]

00:26:46   a specific syntax low they will have to [TS]

00:26:49   understand the world of things that they [TS]

00:26:50   can talk to Siri about is constrained [TS]

00:26:53   and it's not a person you can't just you [TS]

00:26:55   can't just give it arbitrary tasks like [TS]

00:26:57   you couldn't assist them and the worst [TS]

00:26:59   thing about Syria though is if you had a [TS]

00:27:01   human assistant and you and you gave [TS]

00:27:02   some sort of vague instruction they can [TS]

00:27:04   ask for clarification you can discuss it [TS]

00:27:06   and you could feel confident you get [TS]

00:27:07   them to understand what you wanted Syria [TS]

00:27:09   lets you clarify in some ways but if [TS]

00:27:11   you're going down the wrong path you're [TS]

00:27:12   trying to tell s Syria to do something [TS]

00:27:14   that has no idea what you're talking [TS]

00:27:14   about and it never will you can't [TS]

00:27:16   there's no way you can clarify that so [TS]

00:27:21   we'll say we'll see if the Syria [TS]

00:27:23   backlash manifests itself in any way or [TS]

00:27:25   if people just start dazzled by the the [TS]

00:27:28   things that do work and and don't mind [TS]

00:27:31   when it fails the other thing I'll be [TS]

00:27:32   interested in is if non-technical people [TS]

00:27:34   find themselves carve out a little slice [TS]

00:27:38   of functionality that they find I know [TS]

00:27:39   technical people will they'll figure it [TS]

00:27:41   out they'll learn what it can do what it [TS]

00:27:43   can't they'll learn which of those [TS]

00:27:44   things is most useful to them and [TS]

00:27:46   they'll just sort of make a routine out [TS]

00:27:48   of using it for particular things where [TS]

00:27:49   people will decide for example I don't [TS]

00:27:51   use Siri except when I want to set up [TS]

00:27:52   reminders because that's much faster way [TS]

00:27:54   to do it from here I only use Siri to do [TS]

00:27:56   reminders to reply to short text [TS]

00:27:58   messages and to set alarm so when I cook [TS]

00:27:59   my egg or you know they'll decide which [TS]

00:28:01   things that Siri is the most efficient [TS]

00:28:04   approach for and they'll they'll start [TS]

00:28:05   using that you know I'm I'm too [TS]

00:28:06   embarrassed to talk to my phone whenever [TS]

00:28:08   any place other than in my house I'll do [TS]

00:28:09   when I'm in the house but not when I'm [TS]

00:28:10   out so you know every the technical [TS]

00:28:12   people will will figure it out I wonder [TS]

00:28:15   if the people who are not technical who [TS]

00:28:16   have no idea that the iPhone 4s is even [TS]

00:28:18   came out there's a new product or it's [TS]

00:28:20   different than anything else they just [TS]

00:28:21   end up getting a phone like a year from [TS]

00:28:23   now and it's got Siri on it after [TS]

00:28:26   playing with it or whatever if someone [TS]

00:28:28   shows it to them assuming they [TS]

00:28:28   discovered at all will they find [TS]

00:28:31   themselves using it or will they just [TS]

00:28:34   play with it for five minutes and decide [TS]

00:28:36   it's not for them that'll be interesting [TS]

00:28:39   to see how that catches on with the [TS]

00:28:41   general population there will be people [TS]

00:28:46   in the chat room we're saying that if [TS]

00:28:47   you you know we've discussed this the [TS]

00:28:50   Siri right now is only available on the [TS]

00:28:53   iPhone 4s if you try it on a four [TS]

00:28:55   you just get voice control now I forget [TS]

00:28:58   if we got into the subject but what do [TS]

00:29:02   you think is the reason for that is it a [TS]

00:29:05   physical hardware limitation or is it [TS]

00:29:07   something that just sort of sweetens the [TS]

00:29:08   pot of the 4s so I fix it finally did to [TS]

00:29:11   tear down on the forest and I looked at [TS]

00:29:13   it to see if there was anything in there [TS]

00:29:14   that I could say was hard where there [TS]

00:29:16   was serious specific nothing jumped out [TS]

00:29:19   to me doesn't mean it's not there but [TS]

00:29:20   all I saw was just in a fivesome you [TS]

00:29:23   know the memory the radio-controlled [TS]

00:29:26   chip from Qualcomm power amplifier like [TS]

00:29:28   it wasn't there wasn't some chip that [TS]

00:29:30   was labeled by the iFixit guys as and [TS]

00:29:33   here's the chip that doesn't exist in [TS]

00:29:34   any other phones that must be there for [TS]

00:29:37   the first serie there's plenty of reason [TS]

00:29:41   to limit to only a 5 devices you know [TS]

00:29:46   with a certain amount of memory because [TS]

00:29:47   I think there's some sort of memory CPU [TS]

00:29:50   overhead for it but I think the better [TS]

00:29:53   reasons limited to the 4s is oh here's [TS]

00:29:57   the mysterious thing that understands it [TS]

00:29:58   supposedly is a server component Siri [TS]

00:30:00   but I haven't seen anyone technically [TS]

00:30:03   chop apart maybe they like sit there and [TS]

00:30:05   sit there and watch you're talking about [TS]

00:30:06   like watch the traffic and see what [TS]

00:30:10   actually gets sent right right if there [TS]

00:30:13   is a service exclusively gets sent of [TS]

00:30:15   this as someone the chat room pointed [TS]

00:30:16   out that Siri was an app that you could [TS]

00:30:18   buy before was the system service so but [TS]

00:30:20   the fact that is the system service [TS]

00:30:22   means well it's got to be running all [TS]

00:30:24   the time and especially for the seat the [TS]

00:30:26   speech synthesis takes up a lot of [TS]

00:30:28   memory like just speaking if you ever go [TS]

00:30:30   to look at like the English Mac and talk [TS]

00:30:32   English Victoria I don't know it's not [TS]

00:30:34   called Mac and talk anymore but the [TS]

00:30:35   actual voice files or the fought wars [TS]

00:30:37   files for Alex for example those are [TS]

00:30:39   some pretty darn big files and I imagine [TS]

00:30:42   that it has to have some portion of [TS]

00:30:44   those in memory to do speech you know [TS]

00:30:47   when I went all right by basically but [TS]

00:30:49   voice control on the iPhone 4 right I [TS]

00:30:52   I'm sure that there is a limited amount [TS]

00:30:55   of things they can say but I mean it it [TS]

00:30:58   talks to you also does the same thing [TS]

00:31:01   that's it I don't know what but the fact [TS]

00:31:03   that Syria is in beta makes me think [TS]

00:31:06   anytime anything is in beta you want to [TS]

00:31:07   be used by a small subset of people [TS]

00:31:08   together [TS]

00:31:09   worked out of it you don't want to put [TS]

00:31:11   say there was no technical limitations [TS]

00:31:12   you wouldn't put Syria on every single [TS]

00:31:14   iOS device when it's still in beta if [TS]

00:31:15   you could help but you'd like to be used [TS]

00:31:17   by the early adopters in the best [TS]

00:31:18   possible scenario to get the kinks [TS]

00:31:20   worked out of it [TS]

00:31:21   and you know how Apple loves to not [TS]

00:31:23   backport things even if old older [TS]

00:31:25   hardware could support it it's just it's [TS]

00:31:27   easier for them from a support [TS]

00:31:28   perspective this is a new feature it's [TS]

00:31:30   not unreasonable to have it only working [TS]

00:31:32   on the new phone the fact that it can't [TS]

00:31:34   work on an iPad - maybe they think it's [TS]

00:31:36   not a useful on an iPad - or maybe you [TS]

00:31:38   know that the big test will be whether [TS]

00:31:39   the iPad 3 has Siri support I assume it [TS]

00:31:43   will just because by then the kinks will [TS]

00:31:45   be worked out and they'll say hey why [TS]

00:31:46   not [TS]

00:31:46   but like the iPad 2 has the same [TS]

00:31:48   hardware specs as the iPhone 4s as far [TS]

00:31:52   as I can tell same amount of RAM same a5 [TS]

00:31:53   system on a chip that seems to be no [TS]

00:31:57   reason why Siri wouldn't work other than [TS]

00:31:58   the fact that maybe they think it's [TS]

00:31:59   weird or silly or not useful with an [TS]

00:32:02   iPad so we'll see what they do with the [TS]

00:32:03   iPad 3 but now no smoking gun on [TS]

00:32:06   hardware components that only exists in [TS]

00:32:08   the 4s to say though they could [TS]

00:32:09   definitely never work on the iPhone 4 or [TS]

00:32:11   anything like that our first sponsor [TS]

00:32:14   today is EZ DNS and by the way it's the [TS]

00:32:17   last time that you'll hear from them [TS]

00:32:20   this year so I mean act act now right [TS]

00:32:26   easy DNS com since 1998 they've been [TS]

00:32:29   helping people register web addresses [TS]

00:32:31   transfer domain set up email forwarding [TS]

00:32:33   in a course manage their DNS they do [TS]

00:32:36   this all while providing the best [TS]

00:32:37   support in the business real people are [TS]

00:32:40   there they understand what you're trying [TS]

00:32:43   to do and they want to help and if you [TS]

00:32:46   never want to talk to people like John [TS]

00:32:48   siracusa then all you need do is use [TS]

00:32:50   their incredible web interface you never [TS]

00:32:51   need to talk to people and they can even [TS]

00:32:54   transfer your whole domain and all the [TS]

00:32:56   records and pull everything it's amazing [TS]

00:32:57   what they've got going on it's fully [TS]

00:32:59   automated so if you have domains [TS]

00:33:01   somewhere and you're thinking oh you [TS]

00:33:04   know what I'm not ready to move because [TS]

00:33:05   I've still got six months left before it [TS]

00:33:08   expires I'm going to wait until the last [TS]

00:33:09   you know 45 days or something don't [TS]

00:33:11   don't do that [TS]

00:33:12   why because you can keep your existing [TS]

00:33:16   time and the transfer will add a year on [TS]

00:33:17   it's like an early renewal but it [TS]

00:33:20   changes your registrar and easy DNS [TS]

00:33:23   does not discard the remaining time some [TS]

00:33:25   do you can check these guys out at easy [TS]

00:33:27   DNS comm / 5x5 and when you're there if [TS]

00:33:32   you use the coupon code five by five [TS]

00:33:35   you will get ten bucks off so go there [TS]

00:33:39   check it out thank you very much to [TS]

00:33:40   those guys for sponsoring they told me [TS]

00:33:42   the other day they're really happy with [TS]

00:33:43   the response oh it sounds like a lot of [TS]

00:33:44   you guys have have tried them out and I [TS]

00:33:47   really appreciate that and they [TS]

00:33:48   appreciate that and I think you'll [TS]

00:33:50   appreciate the service so thanks very [TS]

00:33:51   much to those guys he's DNS couple of [TS]

00:33:56   people in a chat room have mentioned [TS]

00:33:57   other uses for Syria I've seen this [TS]

00:33:59   mentioned many times Siri seems like a [TS]

00:34:01   really obvious fit for a future Apple TV [TS]

00:34:04   because that their big problem with the [TS]

00:34:06   Apple TV is always some always always [TS]

00:34:08   the interface they give you that little [TS]

00:34:10   5 way switch with the you know Direction [TS]

00:34:12   pad and a little button and that they [TS]

00:34:14   wanted to be but no one wants to down [TS]

00:34:16   down down left left left [TS]

00:34:17   select left's like that no one wants to [TS]

00:34:19   do that when you just want to get to [TS]

00:34:21   something quickly it would be great if [TS]

00:34:22   you could turn on your Apple TV and just [TS]

00:34:24   yell out the name of a program and it [TS]

00:34:25   would understand you and start playing [TS]

00:34:27   it or ask for clarification you know [TS]

00:34:28   which episode blah blah blah the [TS]

00:34:31   interface television problem has not yet [TS]

00:34:34   been solved and every solution I've seen [TS]

00:34:36   tried a lot of the better ones involve [TS]

00:34:39   some expensive breakable like a you know [TS]

00:34:41   control with your iPad control with your [TS]

00:34:43   iPod Touch that's a pretty darn [TS]

00:34:45   expensive thing for $99 bucks or gonna [TS]

00:34:46   have a big expensive LCD control way for [TS]

00:34:49   it and you know unless the interface [TS]

00:34:52   exists solely on your iPad you don't [TS]

00:34:54   want to be looking up at the TV and then [TS]

00:34:55   swiping down something else [TS]

00:34:56   so boys control the natural fit and [TS]

00:34:58   certainly Macs have enough power to do [TS]

00:35:00   series so again it's question of once [TS]

00:35:03   applicants the kinks worked out of it [TS]

00:35:04   and it's out of beta does it appear in [TS]

00:35:06   Mac OS 10 does it appear in the next [TS]

00:35:07   major version does it appear as an [TS]

00:35:08   update to 10/7 what would you use it for [TS]

00:35:11   like it seems it would be useful for [TS]

00:35:12   Mac's - if you're not if you're in a [TS]

00:35:14   home office or whatever you if you just [TS]

00:35:15   tell your Macintosh just set up a [TS]

00:35:16   reminder an appointment or even just set [TS]

00:35:19   a timer and remind you of all those [TS]

00:35:20   things you can do on an iPhone it's like [TS]

00:35:21   well on the Mac you would just click on [TS]

00:35:23   Cal and enter the blob well it wouldn't [TS]

00:35:25   be nice to be able to use those the [TS]

00:35:26   speech for that - granted it's not as [TS]

00:35:28   annoying to type out things and click [TS]

00:35:30   things with the mouse and keyboard as it [TS]

00:35:31   is to do with a tiny on-screen keyboard [TS]

00:35:33   on an iPhone but it's still pretty [TS]

00:35:35   annoying and if you could talk to it [TS]

00:35:37   would work I think people would like to [TS]

00:35:38   do that what would be the the voice [TS]

00:35:41   interface for the Apple TV I mean it [TS]

00:35:44   wouldn't have a microphone and you say [TS]

00:35:46   Apple TV put on yeah that's that's part [TS]

00:35:49   of that like the Kinect problem [TS]

00:35:51   connected the sim for the Xbox that a [TS]

00:35:52   similar problem you have to put [TS]

00:35:54   something near the television that [TS]

00:35:56   people who are kind of far away from the [TS]

00:35:58   television control right so the Kinect [TS]

00:36:01   you're standing a couple feet away and [TS]

00:36:02   you're moving your body and so on and so [TS]

00:36:04   forth and it could be things between you [TS]

00:36:06   and the television and you're far away [TS]

00:36:07   and Kinect has audio as well you have to [TS]

00:36:09   eliminate noise figure out who the [TS]

00:36:10   speaker is that you know it's not the [TS]

00:36:13   guy to the side of you who's talking [TS]

00:36:14   about you should pay attention to as the [TS]

00:36:15   people in front it these are all hard [TS]

00:36:17   problems that may actually be much [TS]

00:36:19   harder than the software problem of just [TS]

00:36:21   install the Siri software the question [TS]

00:36:23   of like how do how do we put a mic and [TS]

00:36:25   some other sensors in there you know [TS]

00:36:28   like that like the Kinect has a bunch of [TS]

00:36:29   IR sensors in there and a mic plus maybe [TS]

00:36:32   a camera like Kinect is the first device [TS]

00:36:34   that's trying to do that Kinect has [TS]

00:36:36   several cameras and IR sprayer and IR [TS]

00:36:39   sprayer yes that sprays the whole room [TS]

00:36:41   with IR and looks it with two different [TS]

00:36:42   cameras and multiple microphones to [TS]

00:36:43   eliminate noise stuff like that and [TS]

00:36:45   that's a pretty large heavy weight [TS]

00:36:46   expensive solution is there something [TS]

00:36:48   Apple could do with a little tiny $99 [TS]

00:36:51   brick it would also give acceptable [TS]

00:36:52   performance you can't just take a mic on [TS]

00:36:54   the thing yeah it's very least you need [TS]

00:36:55   to for a noise elimination but even that [TS]

00:36:58   might be no good the last thing you want [TS]

00:37:01   is someone to be sitting in front of [TS]

00:37:02   television yelling oh people yelled at [TS]

00:37:03   television anybody yelling of a [TS]

00:37:04   television and expecting something then [TS]

00:37:06   does that mean that if you have an iPod [TS]

00:37:08   Touch or an iPhone that you have to talk [TS]

00:37:10   it you you configure it or do Jigar it [TS]

00:37:12   around somehow that you're talking into [TS]

00:37:14   that and it's talking to be Abe now let [TS]

00:37:17   me ask you this do these iPod Touches [TS]

00:37:20   that you have can they do airplay onto [TS]

00:37:22   the Apple TV pretty well I don't have an [TS]

00:37:25   Apple TV but they have one of them they [TS]

00:37:27   can adjust like an iPhone because I the [TS]

00:37:30   way that this is integrated now it's [TS]

00:37:32   just it's a blue it blew my kid's mind [TS]

00:37:35   that all of a sudden out of the blue [TS]

00:37:37   there's a video of him on on the TV like [TS]

00:37:41   he's seen videos of him on the iPhones [TS]

00:37:43   he's seen videos of him on the you know [TS]

00:37:46   on the computers and like that's not [TS]

00:37:48   that big of a deal to him [TS]

00:37:49   but all of a sudden seen a video of him [TS]

00:37:52   or his little baby sister on the big TV [TS]

00:37:55   he felt I could tell he felt like a [TS]

00:37:57   movie star you know like he loved it he [TS]

00:38:00   was just he was jumping up and down he [TS]

00:38:02   was beside himself uh if they can do [TS]

00:38:05   airplay you would think it wouldn't be a [TS]

00:38:07   big deal to capture some a little bit of [TS]

00:38:10   audio and send that to the Apple TV that [TS]

00:38:12   gets back to the what the having a [TS]

00:38:15   really expensive remote your iPod touch [TS]

00:38:17   costs two hundred three hundred bucks [TS]

00:38:19   and using with a $99 device the remote [TS]

00:38:21   is more expensive more fragile than the [TS]

00:38:23   thing and put you want to sell someone [TS]

00:38:24   an Apple TV and say here's the thing you [TS]

00:38:26   need you can use it right you want to [TS]

00:38:27   say here's an Apple TV oh and by the way [TS]

00:38:29   if you have a $300 phone or iPod Touch [TS]

00:38:32   you get all these other features and you [TS]

00:38:34   can talk to it oh I can I talk to the [TS]

00:38:35   $99 one why can't you build that in or [TS]

00:38:37   whatever having having some other thing [TS]

00:38:40   that is also expensive or that is an [TS]

00:38:43   accessory that not everyone will have is [TS]

00:38:45   a problem for the simplicity of the [TS]

00:38:47   product I don't I don't think these are [TS]

00:38:51   technical barriers are surmountable I'm [TS]

00:38:53   just not sure Apple thinks is going to [TS]

00:38:55   be ready for primetime maybe they're [TS]

00:38:56   playing with it but you know Apple they [TS]

00:38:57   don't like to release they wouldn't just [TS]

00:38:59   tack on a couple mics and install Siri [TS]

00:39:02   on it because it because it will run and [TS]

00:39:04   say hey Apple TV 3 now with Siri and it [TS]

00:39:06   should kind of work but if it doesn't [TS]

00:39:07   just use the remote they would want to [TS]

00:39:09   do it like they do with the phone it's [TS]

00:39:11   the phone you know the iPhone 4s it's [TS]

00:39:13   fast it's got enough memory you talk [TS]

00:39:15   right into it you don't put the iPhone [TS]

00:39:16   on the other side of the room and sit [TS]

00:39:17   down on the couch and try to use Siri [TS]

00:39:18   that's not going to work you know it's [TS]

00:39:19   right there it's an ideal situation so [TS]

00:39:25   everyone thinks speech would be great [TS]

00:39:27   for the Apple TV I'm just not sure Apple [TS]

00:39:29   will agree for a generation or two of [TS]

00:39:31   the of the device and as I said before [TS]

00:39:32   I'm probably going to get an Apple TV [TS]

00:39:34   three assuming it still has no fan and [TS]

00:39:36   it's nice and everything every what I [TS]

00:39:37   really like isn't it's an RF remote or a [TS]

00:39:39   Bluetooth remote or something other than [TS]

00:39:40   IR because they make this little black [TS]

00:39:43   box that'd be great to hide somewhere [TS]

00:39:44   but you got to have the IR sensor poking [TS]

00:39:46   out what else you got this will all [TS]

00:39:54   still follow up really main topic today [TS]

00:39:56   I thought Oh in our remaining time I [TS]

00:39:58   thought I would talk about Dart [TS]

00:40:01   you know about dart dart is this brand [TS]

00:40:04   new JavaScript infrastructure platform [TS]

00:40:08   library that Google has just announced [TS]

00:40:12   and released into the world and they [TS]

00:40:14   well I say just an internet time it was [TS]

00:40:17   like 10 years ago but I think was last [TS]

00:40:18   week [TS]

00:40:19   yeah but been a good chance to talk [TS]

00:40:21   about it because there were other things [TS]

00:40:21   going on but I figure it's worth [TS]

00:40:24   discussing [TS]

00:40:25   so I currently or in the past Google has [TS]

00:40:30   done a couple of weird things to write [TS]

00:40:32   their web applications they had have an [TS]

00:40:35   in-house toolkit that's also available [TS]

00:40:37   to the public I believe where you write [TS]

00:40:40   your applications using Java like actual [TS]

00:40:42   Java and they have a compiler that will [TS]

00:40:45   translate that to JavaScript so it can [TS]

00:40:46   run in the browser and so they get to [TS]

00:40:49   use all the tools that have been built [TS]

00:40:51   up around Java and write their [TS]

00:40:52   applications in that language and [TS]

00:40:54   language they like better and then it [TS]

00:40:55   translates it to you know compressed [TS]

00:40:58   minified obfuscated JavaScript that you [TS]

00:41:02   know runs an application I don't know [TS]

00:41:03   Gmail does this Gmail might use [TS]

00:41:04   something slightly different but they [TS]

00:41:05   have they have GWT which is their Google [TS]

00:41:07   web toolkit which is this Java thing and [TS]

00:41:10   they have similar tools that they use [TS]

00:41:13   in-house so if you ever look at the [TS]

00:41:14   source code for Gmail the gmail web page [TS]

00:41:19   is just a mess and you're like no human [TS]

00:41:20   wrote that's very similar to Google+ [TS]

00:41:22   it's clear that they're using tools that [TS]

00:41:23   produce this stuff now dart looks like [TS]

00:41:27   another crack at the same type of [TS]

00:41:29   problem they don't they don't want to [TS]

00:41:31   write the application using JavaScript [TS]

00:41:34   they want to write it in what they think [TS]

00:41:36   is a better language with better tooling [TS]

00:41:38   and then in the case of dart this [TS]

00:41:42   internal memo that leaked a while back [TS]

00:41:44   was internal Google memo was saying that [TS]

00:41:47   what they want is they want Java Script [TS]

00:41:48   to be a better language but they don't [TS]

00:41:49   feel like they can make JavaScript a [TS]

00:41:51   better language because they don't have [TS]

00:41:52   control over the process and because [TS]

00:41:53   they think that you can't evolve the [TS]

00:41:55   language as it exists today into one [TS]

00:41:57   that they find acceptable so what [TS]

00:41:58   they're going to try to do is make a new [TS]

00:42:00   language and they'll make their new [TS]

00:42:02   language compile to JavaScript so that [TS]

00:42:04   it will run on other browsers but what [TS]

00:42:06   they plan to do is on their browser on [TS]

00:42:09   Google Chrome make dart run natively so [TS]

00:42:11   they're going to try to write their [TS]

00:42:12   applications in dart like not there [TS]

00:42:13   there [TS]

00:42:14   of applications that Google users [TS]

00:42:15   encourage other people to write their [TS]

00:42:17   applications in dart and say hey use [TS]

00:42:18   dart it's a better language you can [TS]

00:42:20   still target every browser because we [TS]

00:42:22   will compile the dart into JavaScript so [TS]

00:42:24   it will run on other browsers but if you [TS]

00:42:27   run your if someone runs your [TS]

00:42:28   application using Chrome it will [TS]

00:42:29   eventually I don't think they have the [TS]

00:42:30   native VM oh yeah but it will eventually [TS]

00:42:32   have a native VM for Dart that'll you [TS]

00:42:34   know be faster lower memory use of [TS]

00:42:36   better features all all the things they [TS]

00:42:37   wanted of JavaScript they can't they [TS]

00:42:39   think they can't get so the first one is [TS]

00:42:42   internal memo leaks and people didn't [TS]

00:42:43   really know about dart there was a big [TS]

00:42:44   hubbub about you know you're trying to [TS]

00:42:47   fork the web the web is supposed to be [TS]

00:42:49   the platform without a vendor it's an [TS]

00:42:51   open platform we don't want anyone [TS]

00:42:52   controlling the web even if it's Google [TS]

00:42:54   someone we may or may not like but you [TS]

00:42:57   know it's not so no vendor is supposed [TS]

00:42:58   to control the web it's supposed to be [TS]

00:43:00   open so we don't like the idea of one [TS]

00:43:01   company making a new language and saying [TS]

00:43:03   we're going to replace JavaScript which [TS]

00:43:04   has been this you know this great boon [TS]

00:43:06   to the web and web applications because [TS]

00:43:09   it's a standards body controls it and it [TS]

00:43:12   just you know everyone supports it and [TS]

00:43:13   you could target target any web browser [TS]

00:43:15   with it and now Google wants to make [TS]

00:43:17   their own thing we don't like that we [TS]

00:43:18   don't like you know I'm imagine if Apple [TS]

00:43:20   had done this in the old days so oh [TS]

00:43:21   there it goes Apple again making their [TS]

00:43:22   proprietary stuff they can't use open [TS]

00:43:24   standards they have to have their own [TS]

00:43:25   thing so there was a lot of backlash [TS]

00:43:28   from that and then I think a couple days [TS]

00:43:31   ago they released the specs for the [TS]

00:43:33   language and said okay well here that [TS]

00:43:35   thing we were talking about while back [TS]

00:43:36   where everyone was getting angry well [TS]

00:43:37   here's the actual language so people [TS]

00:43:38   could finally take a look at the [TS]

00:43:39   language and start talking about it in [TS]

00:43:41   isolation ignoring the fact of whether [TS]

00:43:43   it's a good idea to try to replace [TS]

00:43:44   JavaScript or control the web stuff like [TS]

00:43:47   that what was the language like it's a [TS]

00:43:49   language any good I've tried to look at [TS]

00:43:54   as much as I can about the language but [TS]

00:43:55   I haven't actually used it to do [TS]

00:43:57   anything so I can't say too much about [TS]

00:43:59   it except to link to other people's [TS]

00:44:01   opinion so in the show notes they put [TS]

00:44:02   one person's analysis of the language [TS]

00:44:05   that happens to be a a Perl person [TS]

00:44:07   because I tend to travel in those [TS]

00:44:08   circles and I also trust Perl people's [TS]

00:44:11   views on languages simply because as [TS]

00:44:14   I've said in previous programs I think [TS]

00:44:15   especially people involved in Perl six [TS]

00:44:18   are on I don't excite the cutting edge [TS]

00:44:22   but they're on sort of the bleeding edge [TS]

00:44:24   so what you're saying Perl developers [TS]

00:44:25   are on [TS]

00:44:26   the cutting-edge of six developers in [TS]

00:44:28   particular on the bleeding edge of [TS]

00:44:30   language design because they have the [TS]

00:44:32   luxury of being that way because they [TS]

00:44:33   don't they don't have a language that [TS]

00:44:35   you Justin use by thousands of people [TS]

00:44:36   and it's kind of its kind of like a [TS]

00:44:40   research project you know I don't want [TS]

00:44:42   to get in trouble with the projects [TS]

00:44:43   people I said there's no implementation [TS]

00:44:44   there is you can download it but it's [TS]

00:44:45   not complete it's not you know is it [TS]

00:44:47   ready for production what does that even [TS]

00:44:48   mean I don't even get into that debate [TS]

00:44:49   but the point is Perl 6 has lots of [TS]

00:44:52   interesting advanced features a language [TS]

00:44:53   that's not caught up with because [TS]

00:44:54   languages that had to exist in the real [TS]

00:44:55   world most of the ones we're using today [TS]

00:44:57   were invented a long long time ago like [TS]

00:44:59   JavaScript is from the 90s so that's [TS]

00:45:00   that's a relatively young language but [TS]

00:45:02   is still decade or more old right and it [TS]

00:45:05   was created kind of on a whim by a guy [TS]

00:45:07   who I don't know how many other [TS]

00:45:08   languages was a Brendan Eich Brendan [TS]

00:45:11   Eich someone in any chatroom will [TS]

00:45:13   correct me but the creator of JavaScript [TS]

00:45:14   was not someone who had who was a [TS]

00:45:16   language designer by trade and created [TS]

00:45:18   tons of languages I don't think you know [TS]

00:45:20   it's kind of it's just kind of [TS]

00:45:21   accidental it's like well that's the one [TS]

00:45:23   that got popular shipped in Netscape [TS]

00:45:24   Navigator has Java in the name because [TS]

00:45:26   Java was popular back then it's like [TS]

00:45:27   it's this weird tortured history and we [TS]

00:45:30   talked about this in the unproduced [TS]

00:45:31   programming shows like the languages [TS]

00:45:32   that are popular are not popular because [TS]

00:45:34   of the quality of the language is a [TS]

00:45:36   popular for reasons that are that are [TS]

00:45:38   unrelated to the qualities language but [TS]

00:45:40   turn out to be much more important in [TS]

00:45:41   terms of adoption developer tools the [TS]

00:45:43   platform was built on what you could use [TS]

00:45:45   this language for accidents of history [TS]

00:45:47   right place right time someone the chat [TS]

00:45:50   room is saying javascript was his first [TS]

00:45:52   try and I was Brendan Eich so Google has [TS]

00:45:56   not been afraid to make new languages [TS]

00:45:57   they made that new go language because [TS]

00:45:59   they thought C was low clunky I'm afraid [TS]

00:46:01   to shave off a couple the sharp edges to [TS]

00:46:02   see it could be really cool and add some [TS]

00:46:03   concurrency and make a nice 2d program [TS]

00:46:05   and their content to sort of use that [TS]

00:46:07   in-house all right so with dart the this [TS]

00:46:10   this the thing I linked to from a perl [TS]

00:46:12   guy he's comparing it to any time a new [TS]

00:46:15   language comes out understandably the [TS]

00:46:17   peril six guy or someone familiar with [TS]

00:46:18   like the cutting edge of languages is [TS]

00:46:19   going to say all right so this is the [TS]

00:46:22   language supported by a big company if [TS]

00:46:24   anybody has the clout to make something [TS]

00:46:26   successful or to at least make a good [TS]

00:46:28   environment with good tools and all that [TS]

00:46:30   stuff it's a big company like Google [TS]

00:46:31   right [TS]

00:46:32   so let's see if this language is cool [TS]

00:46:34   and has all the cool stuff that I like [TS]

00:46:35   that you know for example some cool [TS]

00:46:37   stuff from Perl 6 that is not going [TS]

00:46:38   anywhere in Perl 6 it seems like right [TS]

00:46:40   now [TS]

00:46:40   we'll be great at Google behind a [TS]

00:46:41   similar language and the people who are [TS]

00:46:43   into other languages to look at the same [TS]

00:46:44   why people aren't a Haskell or other [TS]

00:46:46   functional programming languages or [TS]

00:46:48   closure or you know any of these new [TS]

00:46:52   modern languages that have things that [TS]

00:46:54   make language nerds excited when when [TS]

00:46:57   those people look at dart what they see [TS]

00:46:59   is not something that's very exciting to [TS]

00:47:01   them the functional programming people [TS]

00:47:03   and the mathematicians don't like it [TS]

00:47:06   because it doesn't push all their [TS]

00:47:07   buttons about provable correctness with [TS]

00:47:10   the type system and all sorts of other [TS]

00:47:11   mathematical concepts that they think [TS]

00:47:13   are essential for a good programming [TS]

00:47:15   language the dark decides is not [TS]

00:47:16   essential and they and dart comes around [TS]

00:47:18   and says we we didn't do those things we [TS]

00:47:20   don't think it's important to have that [TS]

00:47:22   kind of a type system sorry [TS]

00:47:24   and the Perl six people look at it and [TS]

00:47:26   say well it's it's class-based and uses [TS]

00:47:28   interfaces just like Java and didn't we [TS]

00:47:30   all learn that interfaces are kind of [TS]

00:47:32   lame and you know class space oo is not [TS]

00:47:35   great and you know Perl systems I wanted [TS]

00:47:38   to use roles everyone knows about roles [TS]

00:47:40   and traits and stuff I think we've [TS]

00:47:42   talked about in previous shows they're [TS]

00:47:43   much better than classes in interface [TS]

00:47:46   then the type system even even the Perl [TS]

00:47:48   six people come down in that they say [TS]

00:47:49   well you got this typing words like [TS]

00:47:50   optional typing which on its server this [TS]

00:47:52   looks a lot like what Perl 6 wants to do [TS]

00:47:54   what Perl 6 wants to do is have optional [TS]

00:47:57   types for things like have an actual [TS]

00:47:59   type system but it's optional you can [TS]

00:48:02   just say I was just a variable and part [TS]

00:48:03   we'll figure it out and the whole point [TS]

00:48:05   of the types in Perl 6 or one of the big [TS]

00:48:06   points one of the parts that I got it [TS]

00:48:07   most excited about personally about [TS]

00:48:09   types and Pro 6 was that it was supposed [TS]

00:48:10   to give the language enough information [TS]

00:48:13   to potentially do optimizations so if [TS]

00:48:16   you say something is an integer it can [TS]

00:48:18   maybe use a native integer for that [TS]

00:48:19   internally and not have to treat it like [TS]

00:48:21   a big magic variable that could be a [TS]

00:48:23   number could be a string could be any of [TS]

00:48:24   the other things but in dart the types [TS]

00:48:27   are really optional in that they [TS]

00:48:29   basically don't matter it's just kind of [TS]

00:48:31   like a form of documentation the URL [TS]

00:48:34   that I linked to with the guy [TS]

00:48:35   criticizing dark holes at feeble typing [TS]

00:48:37   and so instead of weak typing or strong [TS]

00:48:38   typing or static typing or dynamic I [TS]

00:48:40   think it's feeble typing it's just [TS]

00:48:42   barely there it's almost just like a [TS]

00:48:43   form of execution form of execution form [TS]

00:48:46   of documentation and they have a static [TS]

00:48:49   type checker that you can run on it but [TS]

00:48:50   it doesn't actually call your program [TS]

00:48:51   not to be compiled if you have a type [TS]

00:48:53   error [TS]

00:48:53   just kind of like a helpful aid and they [TS]

00:48:56   the dark Google presents art is like oh [TS]

00:48:59   you can start out with like a simple [TS]

00:49:00   program where you don't care about types [TS]

00:49:01   and just prototype but then as it [TS]

00:49:02   becomes a serious application of course [TS]

00:49:03   you add types and then our static [TS]

00:49:06   checker will check that your types are [TS]

00:49:07   correct and so on and so forth but in [TS]

00:49:09   the end it's going to compile the [TS]

00:49:10   JavaScript which has no concept of types [TS]

00:49:12   like that uh and it's not you know so it [TS]

00:49:16   doesn't doesn't make anybody happy it [TS]

00:49:17   doesn't make the dynamic programming [TS]

00:49:18   people happy because even they think [TS]

00:49:19   optional types should be more like [TS]

00:49:21   apparel sex and it doesn't make the [TS]

00:49:22   functional programming or statically [TS]

00:49:24   type people happy because because it's [TS]

00:49:26   not the bondage and discipline that they [TS]

00:49:27   want and it's not functionally pure and [TS]

00:49:29   provably correct and you know like [TS]

00:49:31   Haskell people and everything on what I [TS]

00:49:34   wanted one of the funnier things that he [TS]

00:49:36   pointed out about it which I wouldn't [TS]

00:49:37   affect up on my own but he did is that [TS]

00:49:38   uh so you've been a programmer for a [TS]

00:49:41   while right now I guess I mean started [TS]

00:49:43   when I was a little kid so when you want [TS]

00:49:45   to want to do an infinite loop you want [TS]

00:49:49   to write an infinite loop that you're [TS]

00:49:50   going to break out of internally on some [TS]

00:49:51   condition all right what what construct [TS]

00:49:54   you use for that an infinite loop you [TS]

00:49:56   would use I mean something that's going [TS]

00:49:58   to check for something and then bust out [TS]

00:49:59   of it you would you say well maybe a [TS]

00:50:01   while right and what would you put in a [TS]

00:50:03   conditional for the while if you wanted [TS]

00:50:05   it to never break out yeah you're gonna [TS]

00:50:07   break it all just ruling it well false [TS]

00:50:09   it's usually false depends on language [TS]

00:50:11   so no quiz I'm just well this is like a [TS]

00:50:16   check for the condition it is you're not [TS]

00:50:17   going to be true anymore and then you [TS]

00:50:18   bust out of it no but like it so you're [TS]

00:50:20   going to write an outer loop that's [TS]

00:50:21   infinite and then inside it you're going [TS]

00:50:23   to say if some condition blah blah blah [TS]

00:50:24   you're going to break out it likes it [TS]

00:50:27   yeah so so the loop the loop itself when [TS]

00:50:29   you have to write a loop that gets [TS]

00:50:30   entered on the first try and unless [TS]

00:50:32   there's some flow control tied inside [TS]

00:50:34   the loop how will it break out so people [TS]

00:50:35   you've said they while people chatting [TS]

00:50:37   awhile true or wild one right and then [TS]

00:50:40   inside you break out of it right and the [TS]

00:50:43   if you are a programming stickler nerd [TS]

00:50:48   obsessive-compulsive that would be me [TS]

00:50:51   early on your programming career you [TS]

00:50:53   would have run across people who said oh [TS]

00:50:55   actually and this is like C in [TS]

00:50:57   particular but lots of languages borrow [TS]

00:50:59   from C oh don't don't do wild one [TS]

00:51:01   instead do four open paren semicolon [TS]

00:51:04   semicolon closed parens have you seen [TS]

00:51:06   that construct before [TS]

00:51:07   right and I'll say that's better because [TS]

00:51:09   that you know we don't want magic [TS]

00:51:10   numbers in our code we don't want that [TS]

00:51:12   while one they're right because what if [TS]

00:51:14   what if someday one is in true anĂ­bal [TS]

00:51:15   right which sounds ridiculous but if [TS]

00:51:18   you're obsessive and a nerd you say yeah [TS]

00:51:19   you know what for semicolon semicolon [TS]

00:51:21   actually is cleaner because it doesn't [TS]

00:51:22   require any magic numbers and it's a [TS]

00:51:24   clean construct and it's kind of [TS]

00:51:25   idiomatic and I like idioms and [TS]

00:51:27   programming languages so for years I've [TS]

00:51:28   been doing in in you know I think I've [TS]

00:51:31   even done in Perl but you know in C [TS]

00:51:32   based languages and stuff doing for an [TS]

00:51:34   empty for instead of while one just [TS]

00:51:37   because it pushes my anal retentive [TS]

00:51:39   buttons about cleanliness and semantics [TS]

00:51:42   and everything but if anyone challenges [TS]

00:51:44   me on that I'm going to go what do you [TS]

00:51:46   mean if one isn't false that's so stupid [TS]

00:51:48   obviously won't you like yeah they're [TS]

00:51:49   not going to change the language so that [TS]

00:51:51   one is false while one but then suddenly [TS]

00:51:53   your program breaks because one it's [TS]

00:51:54   false it's stupid right well in dart the [TS]

00:51:57   only value that that is true in a [TS]

00:52:00   boolean sense is the they have a special [TS]

00:52:02   keyword true the put literal boolean [TS]

00:52:04   true everything else is false including [TS]

00:52:05   one so if you do if one or while one the [TS]

00:52:08   block of that will not execute because [TS]

00:52:10   one is not true right so this this is [TS]

00:52:15   like a weird vindication of the Indian [TS]

00:52:18   or retentive practice of using an empty [TS]

00:52:20   for loop or something as your [TS]

00:52:22   conditional because here's a language [TS]

00:52:23   where literally while one you want into [TS]

00:52:25   that loop or if one you will not people [TS]

00:52:27   not execute that conditional which is [TS]

00:52:29   just kind of perverse yeah they have [TS]

00:52:31   other weird stuff going on in language [TS]

00:52:32   too where they have operator overloading [TS]

00:52:34   but not type coercion overloading so you [TS]

00:52:36   can have situations where this is in the [TS]

00:52:38   article too where you can have if a [TS]

00:52:39   equals equals a have that condition be [TS]

00:52:41   false because there's no type coercion [TS]

00:52:43   and and someone overrode that operator [TS]

00:52:47   lots of weird stuff that has it has to [TS]

00:52:50   do with the fact that it has to compile [TS]

00:52:51   the JavaScript I assume but the bottom [TS]

00:52:54   line on dart as a language is that I [TS]

00:52:57   don't think many people are getting [TS]

00:52:59   excited about dart the language itself [TS]

00:53:01   you said if you just said ignore you [TS]

00:53:02   know this come out of nowhere here's in [TS]

00:53:03   the language and I call it dark people [TS]

00:53:05   would say this is a cruddy language to [TS]

00:53:06   take some of the things I hate about [TS]

00:53:07   Java and some of the things I hate about [TS]

00:53:09   C and C++ and pushes them into this [TS]

00:53:10   weird Frankenstein beasts and I don't [TS]

00:53:12   understand why you have these crazy [TS]

00:53:13   typing rules they don't make any sense [TS]

00:53:14   to me and I don't like your you know [TS]

00:53:16   nobody is excited about this language [TS]

00:53:18   the only thing that's excited about is [TS]

00:53:19   it's in [TS]

00:53:21   ended usage like oh so I see you're [TS]

00:53:24   going to replace JavaScript with this [TS]

00:53:25   and you're going to make better tools to [TS]

00:53:27   this and this could be potentially [TS]

00:53:28   faster than JavaScript it'll be easier [TS]

00:53:30   to write in the JavaScript for these [TS]

00:53:31   reasons and you can make serious [TS]

00:53:33   applications with it because it has [TS]

00:53:34   these types and all those other stuff [TS]

00:53:36   maybe then you could get excited about [TS]

00:53:38   it like I think the people are most [TS]

00:53:40   excited about obviously is Google [TS]

00:53:41   because they are already writing web [TS]

00:53:42   applications using language other than [TS]

00:53:44   JavaScript and then targeting JavaScript [TS]

00:53:46   and they would like to get rid of that [TS]

00:53:48   targeting JavaScript part at least on [TS]

00:53:49   their own browsers they want to write in [TS]

00:53:51   a language that is close enough to [TS]

00:53:53   JavaScript that it can produce [TS]

00:53:54   JavaScript and not be horrendously [TS]

00:53:55   inefficient but eventually will run [TS]

00:53:58   natively in the browser that they own [TS]

00:53:59   does they'll build in a dart VM and I [TS]

00:54:02   think the excitement level for Dart [TS]

00:54:04   takes a huge drop as soon as you leave [TS]

00:54:06   Google because for other people to like [TS]

00:54:08   well I'm not excited about then you have [TS]

00:54:10   look at the big picture I'm not really [TS]

00:54:10   excited about Google making the new [TS]

00:54:12   language for the web and controlling it [TS]

00:54:14   and I'm also not really excited about [TS]

00:54:15   dark the language that doesn't look that [TS]

00:54:17   interesting and one of the other links I [TS]

00:54:19   have in the show notes is someone did [TS]

00:54:20   hello world in dart which you have to [TS]

00:54:22   tiger to write a main function and then [TS]

00:54:23   print hello world it's all very Jabba [TS]

00:54:25   like that very Java well that that's [TS]

00:54:27   more like see like Lee's you know how to [TS]

00:54:28   make a class I don't think that would be [TS]

00:54:29   Java like but someone compiled that the [TS]

00:54:33   JavaScript center so what does hello [TS]

00:54:34   will look like when you compile the [TS]

00:54:35   JavaScript in the output I mean this is [TS]

00:54:37   is kind of silly because it's the worst [TS]

00:54:39   case scenario so you've made a tiny [TS]

00:54:40   little snippet of code you know print [TS]

00:54:42   hello world but to target JavaScript the [TS]

00:54:45   dart compiler has to build this entire [TS]

00:54:47   world up they build the world of dart [TS]

00:54:49   and then execute your little whole world [TS]

00:54:50   in it so the JavaScript it produces is [TS]

00:54:52   this huge pages upon pages of [TS]

00:54:54   boilerplate and stuff is implementing [TS]

00:54:55   the language just for your hello world [TS]

00:54:57   so the overhead for using dart and [TS]

00:54:59   targeting JavaScript aside all darts [TS]

00:55:00   created hey it'll just produce [TS]

00:55:01   JavaScript if you want to target other [TS]

00:55:03   browsers well there's a minimum [TS]

00:55:04   threshold of application size that you [TS]

00:55:07   have to pass before it makes sense to [TS]

00:55:09   use dart and target JavaScript because [TS]

00:55:10   you're not going to do it on a web page [TS]

00:55:12   that previously had you know ten lines [TS]

00:55:14   of jQuery and so I ran jQuery is huge to [TS]

00:55:16   write but presumably if you use Google's [TS]

00:55:18   URL so that it might already be cached [TS]

00:55:20   on the client but it seems like dart is [TS]

00:55:25   definitely targeting the kind of web [TS]

00:55:26   applications the Google writes big [TS]

00:55:27   applications it's not just like a little [TS]

00:55:29   web page with something that animates [TS]

00:55:30   it's like Gmail or Google Docs or [TS]

00:55:32   something like that [TS]

00:55:33   so to the extent that there are other [TS]

00:55:36   companies out there that a red big [TS]

00:55:39   humongous web applications like Google [TS]

00:55:41   does and B don't mind writing them on [TS]

00:55:43   top of a technology controlled by [TS]

00:55:45   someone who could potentially be a [TS]

00:55:46   competitor then and C don't mind not [TS]

00:55:50   being excited by the language itself [TS]

00:55:51   that is I guess the target market for [TS]

00:55:53   Dart so I expect dart not to ever [TS]

00:55:56   replace JavaScript as the dominant [TS]

00:55:58   language and probably not to be used by [TS]

00:56:01   many people outside Google and I think [TS]

00:56:03   that's fine because Google should be [TS]

00:56:06   making cool internal tools and [TS]

00:56:07   publishing them in the hopes that hey of [TS]

00:56:09   other people like it and maybe it will [TS]

00:56:10   help them make them better so and I'm [TS]

00:56:12   all for a replacement for JavaScript I'm [TS]

00:56:15   just not excited about this replacement [TS]

00:56:17   for JavaScript and I'm not excited about [TS]

00:56:19   the way Google's seen the googles [TS]

00:56:21   apparent motivation and goals for [TS]

00:56:24   replacing javascript in this way like it [TS]

00:56:26   seems like they're using it to wrest [TS]

00:56:27   control if you if you read that that [TS]

00:56:29   memo about dart that's also linked from [TS]

00:56:30   one of the links in the show notes about [TS]

00:56:32   dart you can see it's kind of shady it's [TS]

00:56:34   like how can we take control of the web [TS]

00:56:36   sort of through a side door by replacing [TS]

00:56:40   JavaScript and not participating in that [TS]

00:56:41   process and we just wanted your own [TS]

00:56:42   thing and then seed it out to the world [TS]

00:56:45   because now we control the browser and [TS]

00:56:47   we can build this languages into if we [TS]

00:56:48   make it really fast and everyone will [TS]

00:56:49   just have to use it because it'll be so [TS]

00:56:51   much better on it yeah so not excited [TS]

00:56:57   about Dart not good not going to be [TS]

00:56:59   using it anytime soon I don't know might [TS]

00:57:02   be fun to play with but I have dim hopes [TS]

00:57:05   for it I'm not the most thing I'm [TS]

00:57:06   disappointed if dart was a really cool [TS]

00:57:08   language then it could be like yeah it's [TS]

00:57:09   kind of evil looks like they're forking [TS]

00:57:11   the web and blah blah but wow what a [TS]

00:57:12   cool language you'd be excited about it [TS]

00:57:14   from that perspective right it's just [TS]

00:57:16   not exciting to me it seems it seems [TS]

00:57:18   like someone would only be exciting to [TS]

00:57:19   people who really love Java and C++ and [TS]

00:57:21   Google has tons of people who love Java [TS]

00:57:23   and C++ but that's not me okay and we [TS]

00:57:31   don't have anything else that's short [TS]

00:57:32   enough to fit we are at the 1 hour mark [TS]

00:57:34   here unless you have any anything that [TS]

00:57:35   you want to bring up I do a second [TS]

00:57:37   sponsor should do them that's a good [TS]

00:57:40   idea [TS]

00:57:40   mmm you know you know this ARS technica [TS]

00:57:45   had some coverage [TS]

00:57:47   Ridge coverage either way works of the [TS]

00:57:51   iPhone 4s event but they they went down [TS]

00:57:53   like so many other places went down did [TS]

00:57:56   you know about that [TS]

00:57:57   I did I had all the live streams open [TS]

00:57:59   yeah they had some problems I forgot to [TS]

00:58:00   where they were using this year but it [TS]

00:58:02   was a different provider than last year [TS]

00:58:03   they they keep changing providers but [TS]

00:58:05   nothing seems to help I'll tell you who [TS]

00:58:07   they should use they should use [TS]

00:58:09   Rackspace cloud that's who live gadget [TS]

00:58:12   comm used and they did not go down and [TS]

00:58:16   most people they already know how simple [TS]

00:58:19   the Rackspace cloud is to use to host [TS]

00:58:20   their websites and applications and what [TS]

00:58:23   people always come back to what they [TS]

00:58:24   always talk about is a fanatical support [TS]

00:58:25   and now you can you can see this in real [TS]

00:58:28   time at the the live doc gadget comm [TS]

00:58:31   blog stayed up and in my understanding [TS]

00:58:34   is that they they didn't have to do [TS]

00:58:36   anything crazy to to make that happen [TS]

00:58:40   they they just did whatever it was that [TS]

00:58:43   they they normally do and the site [TS]

00:58:47   responded the thing stayed up and kept [TS]

00:58:50   running it's pretty incredible it's [TS]

00:58:53   pretty cool when you think about it so [TS]

00:58:56   if you have a site that doesn't get a [TS]

00:58:58   lot of traffic put it there and then the [TS]

00:59:00   date that it does guess what you'll [TS]

00:59:02   survive you'll be just fine you won't [TS]

00:59:03   have to freak out you won't have to [TS]

00:59:04   worry I know a lot of app developers [TS]

00:59:07   that run database backends that when [TS]

00:59:10   they release a brand-new version for iOS [TS]

00:59:11   5 the new phones come out all of a [TS]

00:59:13   sudden they have tons and tons and tons [TS]

00:59:14   of new year users their service goes [TS]

00:59:17   down and they freak out about it and [TS]

00:59:19   they have to go and spin up new servers [TS]

00:59:20   and configure things and pull their hair [TS]

00:59:22   out for a while [TS]

00:59:23   if they'd hosted it on the Rackspace [TS]

00:59:25   cloud they wouldn't have that problem so [TS]

00:59:26   now you can go to Rackspace dot-com / [TS]

00:59:29   5x5 and you can learn all about the all [TS]

00:59:33   about this as special page there just [TS]

00:59:34   for you guys and you'll go there and it [TS]

00:59:37   will support the show and maybe you can [TS]

00:59:40   sign up and try on something cool [TS]

00:59:41   Rackspace comm / 5x5 great place to out [TS]

00:59:44   stuff you know speaking of server-side [TS]

00:59:47   stuff this brings up another point about [TS]

00:59:49   Siri this is a point that I made this [TS]

00:59:52   point I think it was a unofficial Apple [TS]

00:59:53   weblog no that wasn't it maybe it was [TS]

00:59:55   they tsimko and remember I saw this I [TS]

00:59:56   just have the notes here I don't have [TS]

00:59:58   the source but [TS]

00:59:58   the source but [TS]

01:00:00   I was talking about Syrian silk so silk [TS]

01:00:03   was that Amazon thing that we talked [TS]

01:00:04   about where your your Amazon fire tablet [TS]

01:00:06   will connect to Amazon servers and then [TS]

01:00:08   Amazon service will connect to the web [TS]

01:00:09   for you through a much larger connection [TS]

01:00:11   and so your device will only have to [TS]

01:00:13   have one connection and two Amazon [TS]

01:00:16   servers and all the traffic go over that [TS]

01:00:17   instead of having to make multiple TCP [TS]

01:00:19   connections and bring them up and tear [TS]

01:00:21   them down do all sorts of stuff over the [TS]

01:00:23   cell number they will just make one [TS]

01:00:24   efficient connection over the cell [TS]

01:00:25   network and go through this proxy that [TS]

01:00:27   will compress things for you and Inter [TS]

01:00:30   leave all the traffic and just generally [TS]

01:00:32   provide a nicer web experience as being [TS]

01:00:33   in between so that was an example of and [TS]

01:00:38   so Amazon is doing that an Amazon is a [TS]

01:00:39   big server-side company Amazon stores [TS]

01:00:41   are built on it's huge you know [TS]

01:00:44   infrastructure for the need to run [TS]

01:00:46   amazon.com to sell stuff and they also [TS]

01:00:48   have branched out in recent years to [TS]

01:00:51   providing web services where this s3 [TS]

01:00:52   storage service and ec2 Elastic Compute [TS]

01:00:54   cloud we in provision computing hardware [TS]

01:00:58   dynamically as your load increases sort [TS]

01:00:59   of like over a spate so that type of [TS]

01:01:01   model so Amazon is a server-side company [TS]

01:01:03   that is now getting into the device [TS]

01:01:06   business with the Kindles with the with [TS]

01:01:08   the fire and stuff like that and silk [TS]

01:01:10   again this is hard to talk about without [TS]

01:01:11   knowing what the heck the server [TS]

01:01:13   component of not Silk Seri hard talk [TS]

01:01:16   about without knowing what the server [TS]

01:01:17   component of Syria is but Apple is a [TS]

01:01:19   device company that certainly with [TS]

01:01:21   iCloud and even a little bit of Siri [TS]

01:01:22   seems to be getting into the server side [TS]

01:01:24   business so those two Amazon and Apple [TS]

01:01:27   seem to be on a collision course in that [TS]

01:01:29   respect where it used to be Amazon was [TS]

01:01:31   content to be server-side and Apple made [TS]

01:01:32   devices and everyone was happy but now [TS]

01:01:34   both people are moving heavily into [TS]

01:01:36   their the opposing companies stronghold [TS]

01:01:41   so we'll see who does better is Amazon [TS]

01:01:43   doing better entering the device [TS]

01:01:44   business then Apple is entering the [TS]

01:01:46   cloud business we should talk about [TS]

01:01:47   iCloud a little bit speaking of that [TS]

01:01:48   stuff yeah I was talking about on [TS]

01:01:54   Twitter a while back what reports the [TS]

01:01:55   iCloud bunch going to be like do people [TS]

01:01:56   think it's going to be successful the [TS]

01:01:57   people think it's going to be like a [TS]

01:01:58   mobile nice scale disasters is nothing [TS]

01:02:00   going to work or is everything going to [TS]

01:02:01   work [TS]

01:02:02   you've got iOS 5 on your devices now [TS]

01:02:05   right yes sir and did you sign up for [TS]

01:02:07   iCloud and do all that stuff yes sir and [TS]

01:02:09   how so how what grade would you give it [TS]

01:02:12   so far [TS]

01:02:14   am i grading how it worked and what the [TS]

01:02:16   Sinai process was like or am i am i [TS]

01:02:18   grading [TS]

01:02:19   what I think of the feature said I mean [TS]

01:02:22   you know not the features that ignore [TS]

01:02:23   the feature said just say like there is [TS]

01:02:25   a given feature set that Apple said this [TS]

01:02:26   is what it's supposed to do how well is [TS]

01:02:28   it perform where the server's down where [TS]

01:02:30   they slow were you not able to do things [TS]

01:02:31   just like server side component of [TS]

01:02:34   reliability not talking about the [TS]

01:02:36   features themselves it's perfect [TS]

01:02:37   everything's been perfect uh you know [TS]

01:02:40   everything that I've uh everything I've [TS]

01:02:42   tried work just fine servers were fast [TS]

01:02:45   um everything just everything works and [TS]

01:02:49   works the way you wanted to work I mean [TS]

01:02:50   no no problems even even downloading [TS]

01:02:54   downloading the updates and everything [TS]

01:02:56   here free I understand for you was not [TS]

01:02:58   fast but here it was very very fast [TS]

01:03:01   download and the install worked just [TS]

01:03:04   fine the phones did you know I've had [TS]

01:03:06   I've actually had trouble updating the [TS]

01:03:10   phone not bad trouble but like you know [TS]

01:03:11   it would it would have a failed install [TS]

01:03:14   that what you'd need to reboot it and to [TS]

01:03:16   you know try again none of that none of [TS]

01:03:18   that this time everything just worked [TS]

01:03:19   and it synced everything up really [TS]

01:03:22   really well it handled the merging of of [TS]

01:03:24   the different you know different address [TS]

01:03:28   books in different places has worked [TS]

01:03:29   really well everything was just great [TS]

01:03:31   and then you download you download [TS]

01:03:34   content you buy in one place it shows up [TS]

01:03:36   in the other place I've got we have an [TS]

01:03:38   iMac that is dedicated just just for us [TS]

01:03:42   to sync up devices with and it has the [TS]

01:03:44   music and video library on it and that's [TS]

01:03:46   all all we do with it and that way it's [TS]

01:03:48   always available and the Apple TVs and [TS]

01:03:52   everything else can get to it and it [TS]

01:03:53   just sort of sits there and is the the [TS]

01:03:55   media machine and uh you know it's great [TS]

01:04:01   because it it automatically gets like I [TS]

01:04:04   bought as a test I bought something on [TS]

01:04:07   the on with my iPhone there was a song [TS]

01:04:12   or something I can't remember what it [TS]

01:04:13   was maybe maybe even some of the apps [TS]

01:04:15   and they're just they just later on they [TS]

01:04:16   just showed up on the machine is great [TS]

01:04:19   works works beautifully perfect no [TS]

01:04:23   problems I was pretty desperate to get [TS]

01:04:25   iOS 5 on my device instantly because I [TS]

01:04:27   wanted [TS]

01:04:27   stop connecting them with the USB cable [TS]

01:04:29   to a computer with iTunes because I've [TS]

01:04:32   had a lot of problems with syncing you [TS]

01:04:34   mentioned like sometimes you even try to [TS]

01:04:35   update the OS it fails and you got to do [TS]

01:04:36   it again well alright iPad has had this [TS]

01:04:39   thing where you plug it in and as soon [TS]

01:04:40   as you plug it in immediately says all [TS]

01:04:42   right backing up and then it sits in [TS]

01:04:43   that backing up phase like forever like [TS]

01:04:45   way longer than you think it should on [TS]

01:04:46   step one of five backing up and it sits [TS]

01:04:48   there so if you look at the console log [TS]

01:04:49   I was seeing all these USB MUX error [TS]

01:04:52   messages and CF network negative one [TS]

01:04:54   rate all sorts of scary looking error [TS]

01:04:56   messages and it were just never [TS]

01:04:57   terminate and you're like obviously to [TS]

01:05:00   update the next OS you have to connect [TS]

01:05:02   it to our just like this is going to be [TS]

01:05:03   the last time that I connect this iPad [TS]

01:05:05   to this computer prism sick of it like [TS]

01:05:06   it shouldn't take this long I don't know [TS]

01:05:08   what it's doing it seems to be having [TS]

01:05:09   some sort of problem I don't and the [TS]

01:05:10   worst thing is if you give up and like [TS]

01:05:11   yank it out and disconnect it then [TS]

01:05:13   forever it's like I can't sync because [TS]

01:05:16   the sync process is already going on and [TS]

01:05:17   if you restart your computer doesn't [TS]

01:05:19   help because it's like a process on the [TS]

01:05:20   iPads you got a like hard reset the iPad [TS]

01:05:22   and let it reboot and then reboot your [TS]

01:05:24   computer and then try it again and think [TS]

01:05:26   of decide how long you're going to wait [TS]

01:05:27   so I really wanted to get away from that [TS]

01:05:29   because connecting through USB has not [TS]

01:05:32   been fun for me with a couple of [TS]

01:05:34   different devices but our iPad has been [TS]

01:05:35   the worst for some unknown reason so I [TS]

01:05:38   wanted to get iCloud on there the first [TS]

01:05:41   problem I added this is confidence a [TS]

01:05:42   launch day thing but like yeah the [TS]

01:05:43   Downloads are really slow and it's not [TS]

01:05:45   because my connections like when when [TS]

01:05:47   everything was going so like maybe my [TS]

01:05:48   ASPI is having a problem so I went to [TS]

01:05:49   the speed test websites and my speed was [TS]

01:05:51   just it would say 30 megabits down no [TS]

01:05:53   problem here I'm 20 something up your [TS]

01:05:55   connection is fine while the download is [TS]

01:05:57   going it was trickling along so it took [TS]

01:05:58   four and a half hours to like download [TS]

01:06:00   all the updates but then once the [TS]

01:06:02   updates were downloaded as soon as I [TS]

01:06:04   plug the iPad in it started to update [TS]

01:06:06   the iPad instead of trying to back it up [TS]

01:06:09   first or maybe was using a different [TS]

01:06:10   backer there was like a different dialog [TS]

01:06:12   box it was like the modal dialog box [TS]

01:06:13   that pops up in front of iTunes I don't [TS]

01:06:15   I don't know I don't want to deal with [TS]

01:06:15   iTunes anymore but it did eventually get [TS]

01:06:18   updated and signed in with our iCloud ID [TS]

01:06:21   that whole business about what the which [TS]

01:06:24   Apple IDs you can use for which things [TS]

01:06:26   kind of confusing but I'm also kind of [TS]

01:06:28   glad that they made it as flexible as it [TS]

01:06:30   is because we have a shared Apple ID [TS]

01:06:32   that we use for all our purchases so [TS]

01:06:34   when I buy something she can use on her [TS]

01:06:35   devices and so on but for iCloud you [TS]

01:06:37   really want to have separate things for [TS]

01:06:38   each person otherwise her contacts will [TS]

01:06:41   be [TS]

01:06:41   sing with mine and all the other stuff [TS]

01:06:42   right so you can have a separate Apple [TS]

01:06:44   ID that you use to buy apps and you just [TS]

01:06:46   go to the store preferences enter that [TS]

01:06:48   that can be different than the Apple ID [TS]

01:06:49   that you use I don't know what you call [TS]

01:06:52   like your device Apple ID the one you [TS]

01:06:53   use to sort of initialize the device [TS]

01:06:55   that's that just you that's you you know [TS]

01:06:58   your your entity is that app ID but in [TS]

01:07:00   the story can still use another one so [TS]

01:07:02   for the things that I've done so far she [TS]

01:07:04   doesn't use iCloud mail but she does we [TS]

01:07:07   did use it for the contacts and [TS]

01:07:09   everything I turn it on the backup thing [TS]

01:07:11   or since I put that slider you know use [TS]

01:07:12   iCloud for backups it immediately says [TS]

01:07:14   there's not enough room would you like [TS]

01:07:15   to buy more store to another prompt in [TS]

01:07:17   store but instant yeah because you get [TS]

01:07:19   five gigs free and she had more than [TS]

01:07:21   that I looked at what it was it was like [TS]

01:07:22   six gigs of magazines it's nice you can [TS]

01:07:25   just turn those off on a per app basis [TS]

01:07:26   like don't back up the magazine or [TS]

01:07:28   button do those stuff right so I had a [TS]

01:07:30   pretty good experience the Cybermen [TS]

01:07:31   really slowed downloads which is like [TS]

01:07:32   not that was like a one-day one timely [TS]

01:07:35   it's like it's like it's there the CDN [TS]

01:07:36   was having problems I don't know it [TS]

01:07:37   could have just been a bandwidth thing [TS]

01:07:39   you know whatever that's not really the [TS]

01:07:42   iCloud service as much as their usual [TS]

01:07:45   software update download things where [TS]

01:07:47   their pipes could have been filled and [TS]

01:07:48   network pipes could have been filled [TS]

01:07:49   with all the people updating but using [TS]

01:07:51   the service I didn't really get any [TS]

01:07:52   error messages it wasn't slow I did a [TS]

01:07:55   couple of things to see if it was doing [TS]

01:07:56   what it's supposed to be doing and it [TS]

01:07:57   seemed like it was I was never prompted [TS]

01:08:00   to resolve any sync conflicts it didn't [TS]

01:08:02   duplicate all the contacts so I pretty [TS]

01:08:05   much give it a thumbs up so I asked on [TS]

01:08:06   Twitter I think I mentioned on Twitter [TS]

01:08:08   the next day that you know that went [TS]

01:08:10   pretty well like it's not not a MobileMe [TS]

01:08:12   type disaster and then immediately [TS]

01:08:13   people replied to me and said yeah well [TS]

01:08:14   I guess you're not using the mail [TS]

01:08:16   because the mail thing isn't working so [TS]

01:08:17   apparently during the day yesterday [TS]

01:08:19   people couldn't connect to their to get [TS]

01:08:22   their mail they would reject their [TS]

01:08:23   password [TS]

01:08:24   some people had debugged further and [TS]

01:08:25   said that a particular particular IMAP [TS]

01:08:27   server Apple's IMAP server wasn't [TS]

01:08:29   responding and that a whole bunch of [TS]

01:08:30   them at some big long named Apple comm [TS]

01:08:34   so I would give it I don't know how I [TS]

01:08:39   grade it certainly it's not a MobileMe [TS]

01:08:40   level disaster I'd say it probably went [TS]

01:08:45   as smoothly as could be expected given [TS]

01:08:47   palpable apples path history like if [TS]

01:08:50   there were zero problems that would have [TS]

01:08:52   been amazed you expect some sort of [TS]

01:08:54   growing pains and little thing [TS]

01:08:55   like that and there were but they seem [TS]

01:08:56   to be transient and relatively minor [TS]

01:08:58   there's still people saying that they [TS]

01:08:59   can't convert their MobileMe ID to a to [TS]

01:09:02   an iCloud account because that whole [TS]

01:09:04   service has been shut off due to [TS]

01:09:06   overwhelming demand or whatever I know [TS]

01:09:07   I'm sure they have some sort of [TS]

01:09:08   server-side problem they're trying to [TS]

01:09:09   deal with so there are bumps but I give [TS]

01:09:13   it a pretty good grade so far I still [TS]

01:09:15   remain cautiously optimistic about [TS]

01:09:17   iCloud oh the money I'll talk about - is [TS]

01:09:22   the Apple ID situation because I think [TS]

01:09:24   people may be confused by this I should [TS]

01:09:25   put this in the show notes there was a [TS]

01:09:26   couple of good articles in Macworld [TS]

01:09:28   explaining what the deal is maybe it's [TS]

01:09:30   just us maybe no one else has multiple [TS]

01:09:32   Apple IDs but I have multiple Apple IDs [TS]

01:09:33   and my wife has multiple Apple IDs and [TS]

01:09:35   it gets confusing the the only dangerous [TS]

01:09:38   situation have to worry about is if you [TS]

01:09:40   have mobile me and you use mobile me for [TS]

01:09:43   syncing like you sync your keychains [TS]

01:09:45   Yojimbo to do mobile me syncing and [TS]

01:09:47   stuff like that do not convert that [TS]

01:09:49   mobile me ID to an iCloud ID at least [TS]

01:09:52   until you're sure that every app that [TS]

01:09:53   you use is is working and that you don't [TS]

01:09:56   need to pass those key chains and things [TS]

01:09:58   around right so you're going to be [TS]

01:10:00   giving up the ability to do as my [TS]

01:10:03   understanding like I've tried to read up [TS]

01:10:05   on this or whatever my understanding is [TS]

01:10:06   if I was to convert my mobile me Apple [TS]

01:10:09   ID to iCloud my your Jimbo items would [TS]

01:10:12   not be able to sync between computers [TS]

01:10:13   and right now that doesn't mean they'd [TS]

01:10:14   be blown away or they'd be deleted or [TS]

01:10:16   anything it just means the syncing part [TS]

01:10:17   would go away right and as much as I [TS]

01:10:21   complain about mold me I do use that [TS]

01:10:22   syncing I use the keychain syncing [TS]

01:10:24   between machines I use the your Jimbo [TS]

01:10:26   syncing between machines and I like the [TS]

01:10:28   flexibility like for example i sync my [TS]

01:10:29   keychain between all my home max but i [TS]

01:10:31   sync my your Jimbo between all my home [TS]

01:10:32   Max and my work Mac just so I can have [TS]

01:10:34   that information with me there are work [TS]

01:10:35   there were workarounds for this yeah so [TS]

01:10:38   you can put it in Dropbox and also to [TS]

01:10:39   other things but the Yojimbo developers [TS]

01:10:43   for example are going to update for [TS]

01:10:44   iCloud they're just not done with it yet [TS]

01:10:46   so their deadline is whatever it is June [TS]

01:10:47   2012 or something like that when [TS]

01:10:49   MobileMe will be shut off for good [TS]

01:10:51   before that time if you have an [TS]

01:10:52   application that uses MobileMe syncing [TS]

01:10:54   you have to hope that the developer of [TS]

01:10:56   that application releases a new version [TS]

01:10:57   that uses iCloud before that dates then [TS]

01:11:00   you can switch it over right but the [TS]

01:11:03   other thing you can do is what I may end [TS]

01:11:05   up doing which is just make yourself a [TS]

01:11:07   new Apple ID and use that as your new [TS]

01:11:08   eye [TS]

01:11:09   I actually have a new iCloud ID that I [TS]

01:11:10   use when I was testing out cloud for my [TS]

01:11:12   line review I actually ended up not [TS]

01:11:14   talking about iCloud in the line review [TS]

01:11:15   just because it was too young and I [TS]

01:11:17   didn't really know what it was gonna be [TS]

01:11:18   like it's good thing I didn't talk about [TS]

01:11:19   it because all the features that I saw [TS]

01:11:21   in the lion Vedas it's very different [TS]

01:11:23   now the interface is very different to [TS]

01:11:25   how you do stuff in the head and decide [TS]

01:11:26   on all the rules with the Apple IDs and [TS]

01:11:27   stuff there are rumors about merging [TS]

01:11:29   Apple IDs which you still can't do but [TS]

01:11:32   anyway the safest thing is probably make [TS]

01:11:34   yourself a new Apple ID you can use [TS]

01:11:35   anything you want my wife's Apple ID [TS]

01:11:36   doesn't use a me comm email address you [TS]

01:11:39   can use anything for your Apple ID [TS]

01:11:40   either I actually have Apple IDs from [TS]

01:11:41   the old days when they didn't even have [TS]

01:11:42   to be email addresses which causes some [TS]

01:11:45   problems but make yourself a new Apple [TS]

01:11:47   ID make it you know blah blah blah me [TS]

01:11:50   calm you can get it for free and use [TS]

01:11:52   that and if you have your MobileMe ID [TS]

01:11:53   just keep that one if you're old you [TS]

01:11:56   know whatever at matcom address or [TS]

01:11:58   whatever that Apple ID was so it is [TS]

01:12:01   confusing but it is also flexible they [TS]

01:12:03   don't the worst thing the only thing you [TS]

01:12:04   can do really badly is to rush into it [TS]

01:12:05   and just say I'm just going to convert [TS]

01:12:07   everything died cloud and then be [TS]

01:12:08   surprised by the results so I will add [TS]

01:12:09   this a great Macworld article that tries [TS]

01:12:12   to explain all the different apps and [TS]

01:12:14   options and things you can do with that [TS]

01:12:16   blood DS I'll put that in the show notes [TS]

01:12:18   now I have a question for you that's [TS]

01:12:20   somewhat related to this so as you know [TS]

01:12:23   I have an iPhone 4 and the 4 I'm getting [TS]

01:12:27   for us any second now that could be do [TS]

01:12:31   you do you recommend treating these [TS]

01:12:32   essentially as like should I treat this [TS]

01:12:34   as an entirely new device or should I [TS]

01:12:37   restore it from a backup of my existing [TS]

01:12:40   iPhone 4 in other words when I start [TS]

01:12:42   using this thing I can I can sign in [TS]

01:12:45   with my iCloud account no problem and in [TS]

01:12:50   theory it's a new device but it should [TS]

01:12:52   start it should pull in everything that [TS]

01:12:54   I might need from iCloud that would be [TS]

01:12:57   great but you know should I use it as a [TS]

01:13:02   standalone device and essentially leave [TS]

01:13:04   the four sitting there as its own device [TS]

01:13:07   or separate or should I restore the new [TS]

01:13:09   one from a backup which would bring [TS]

01:13:10   along all of the pictures and video and [TS]

01:13:12   everything else that I've got going yeah [TS]

01:13:15   that's kind of weird like with the with [TS]

01:13:16   the photo stream of stuff you know photo [TS]

01:13:19   stream only works for stuff that you [TS]

01:13:20   create after [TS]

01:13:22   you have photo stream enabled and [TS]

01:13:24   installed so like you said all all of [TS]

01:13:27   your pictures that are on your iPhone 4 [TS]

01:13:28   if you were to get your 4s and turn it [TS]

01:13:29   on and turn on iCloud you expect all its [TS]

01:13:32   going to sync everything but it's not [TS]

01:13:33   going to sync my understanding at Lisa's [TS]

01:13:34   is not going to sync to pick any [TS]

01:13:36   pictures that were taken on your iPhone [TS]

01:13:37   4 before you upgraded iOS 5 right I'm [TS]

01:13:40   not I'm not sure that answer by think I [TS]

01:13:43   think that's right but even even putting [TS]

01:13:45   that aside you know I mean I've what if [TS]

01:13:47   what if I had a chat where somebody said [TS]

01:13:50   oh call me at this number today at 2:00 [TS]

01:13:52   p.m. and the only place that I have that [TS]

01:13:55   is in one of the chats that I would need [TS]

01:13:58   to go back to to look to call out [TS]

01:13:59   because that the application data that's [TS]

01:14:00   also confusing to me too like that comes [TS]

01:14:02   across [TS]

01:14:02   if you backup the iCloud you have your [TS]

01:14:05   iPhone 4 backing up the iCloud or now [TS]

01:14:06   yes and did you pay for the extra [TS]

01:14:08   storage there you actually fit it didn't [TS]

01:14:10   need it that's confusing to me too [TS]

01:14:12   because I know I have tons of stuff on [TS]

01:14:14   like my ipod touch for example you know [TS]

01:14:16   20 gigs of music but that music is not [TS]

01:14:19   getting backed up to the iCloud backup [TS]

01:14:20   because I didn't purchase it from the [TS]

01:14:22   iTunes music store hmm right so I'm wary [TS]

01:14:25   of iCloud backup because I'm not sure [TS]

01:14:27   what its backing up right obviously not [TS]

01:14:28   backing up my music so what if my house [TS]

01:14:30   burns down I could just get a new iPhone [TS]

01:14:32   and enter my cloud ID and all my stuff [TS]

01:14:34   will be there well my music wall because [TS]

01:14:35   it burned down with my house right yes [TS]

01:14:37   I'm looking at iCloud and I have I have [TS]

01:14:39   everything turned on except right now [TS]

01:14:42   the photo stream everything else is is [TS]

01:14:45   turned on and when I go to storage and [TS]

01:14:46   backup it says that I'm I have I have [TS]

01:14:49   five gigs and I have 820 Meg's available [TS]

01:14:53   so I'm close so now you mentioned about [TS]

01:14:55   the phone number like say you have it in [TS]

01:14:56   a chat session from a verbs chat log and [TS]

01:14:59   you wanted to go find it like it's not [TS]

01:15:00   in your contacts where you're saying but [TS]

01:15:01   your contacts will sync I'm say or let's [TS]

01:15:04   say that I'm meeting somebody from lunch [TS]

01:15:05   and they said here's the address of the [TS]

01:15:07   place that we're going and I only have [TS]

01:15:08   that in an iMessage and it's only on [TS]

01:15:10   this phone that's not that's not getting [TS]

01:15:12   backed up right I'd well I don't I [TS]

01:15:14   assumed application data is backed up so [TS]

01:15:16   I'm going to go back to the verbs thing [TS]

01:15:17   so you're using verbs and you've got I [TS]

01:15:19   on transcripts I don't even know verbs [TS]

01:15:20   as I am transcripts although I do own [TS]

01:15:21   verbs right use that much but that would [TS]

01:15:24   be application data that's associated [TS]

01:15:26   with that thing so when you when you [TS]

01:15:27   sync your thing and it puts verbs on [TS]

01:15:29   your new phone I assume you'd also put [TS]

01:15:30   the contents of the little buried [TS]

01:15:32   documents folder inside the verbs [TS]

01:15:33   application home directory I [TS]

01:15:35   you're new on your new phone as well [TS]

01:15:36   like I'm assuming it's bringing the [TS]

01:15:38   application data as a whole the topic [TS]

01:15:40   that I actually wanted to talk about but [TS]

01:15:42   I'll let Marco do it in his show did you [TS]

01:15:43   read Marco is post about application [TS]

01:15:45   data versus caches and all that stuff I [TS]

01:15:47   did yeah the cleaning behavior of of iOS [TS]

01:15:51   5 yeah so I'm gonna leave that damn [TS]

01:15:54   because that's this thing that was a [TS]

01:15:55   great article and you should definitely [TS]

01:15:56   talk about that and centers and it's [TS]

01:15:58   related to this because he's talking [TS]

01:15:59   about what things get backed up more [TS]

01:16:01   things not well I assume the things that [TS]

01:16:02   are user created application data also [TS]

01:16:05   get sent to your other device if you [TS]

01:16:07   take a new iPhone out of the box and [TS]

01:16:09   turn it on and sync it with iCloud so so [TS]

01:16:12   you're saying that if I have two iPhones [TS]

01:16:14   and I'll know the answer to this later [TS]

01:16:16   today but you're saying if I have two [TS]

01:16:18   iPhones and I sync both of them with [TS]

01:16:20   iCloud that even something like a [TS]

01:16:23   previous chat or something like that [TS]

01:16:25   will will get synced if the application [TS]

01:16:28   has been built that way you're saying it [TS]

01:16:30   will get synced yeah and any any user [TS]

01:16:32   created content it's gonna definitely be [TS]

01:16:33   in a folder it's definitely getting [TS]

01:16:34   backed up in your other phone and I [TS]

01:16:36   assume it will be copy to your new phone [TS]

01:16:37   if it isn't that's kind of I got to [TS]

01:16:39   trust like oh if I drop my phone in the [TS]

01:16:41   ocean when I get a new phone I just [TS]

01:16:42   enter my iCloud ID and all my stuff is [TS]

01:16:44   back well we know that's not true for [TS]

01:16:46   musically you didn't buy any iTunes [TS]

01:16:47   Music Store and videos that you ripped [TS]

01:16:49   yourself and put it on there and stuff [TS]

01:16:50   like that but is it also not true for [TS]

01:16:52   even application data like is it just [TS]

01:16:54   going to install the verbs application [TS]

01:16:56   from the app store and I'll just be [TS]

01:16:57   completely clean and empty I assume it's [TS]

01:16:58   going to sync the stuff from iCloud so [TS]

01:17:00   that when you get your 4s I would try [TS]

01:17:02   that experiment like find some piece of [TS]

01:17:04   data or create a piece of data like you [TS]

01:17:05   know create a sticky note wellmaybe [TS]

01:17:06   notes don't camp is there specially [TS]

01:17:07   treated but pick some third party [TS]

01:17:09   application and make something you know [TS]

01:17:11   is user-generated content like a little [TS]

01:17:13   note or I don't know I can't think of a [TS]

01:17:15   simple note also the server side [TS]

01:17:16   component trying to think of something [TS]

01:17:17   where you know there's no server side [TS]

01:17:18   component doing this stuff for you put [TS]

01:17:21   make some data in the application and [TS]

01:17:23   then when you get you for a sign in with [TS]

01:17:25   your ID and see if it shows up there [TS]

01:17:27   that'll be interesting experiment as for [TS]

01:17:29   whether you whether you should you know [TS]

01:17:31   after you run this experiment whether [TS]

01:17:32   you should actually hook it up to your [TS]

01:17:33   at iTunes and do a restore from your [TS]

01:17:35   other one that's what I do just because [TS]

01:17:38   I want all my stuff you and all your [TS]

01:17:39   stuff yeah I want everything there and [TS]

01:17:41   I'm perfectly happy to do that how'd it [TS]

01:17:43   make a big giant mess and then spend you [TS]

01:17:45   know 15 20 minutes cleaning up Ark I [TS]

01:17:47   don't need that application let me [TS]

01:17:48   rearrange of the [TS]

01:17:48   you know ios5 actually was pretty nice [TS]

01:17:51   about this when it added those [TS]

01:17:53   applications it added what newsstand and [TS]

01:17:56   odd the message application and [TS]

01:17:58   reminders out it didn't shift all my [TS]

01:18:02   icons over by three which would have [TS]

01:18:03   driven me crazy it just made like a new [TS]

01:18:05   screen and here these lonely lonely [TS]

01:18:07   three icons on a new page - and then the [TS]

01:18:09   rest of my pages were left pretty much [TS]

01:18:10   intact [TS]

01:18:11   so I'm come all in favor but it does [TS]

01:18:13   require some cleanup after the fact so [TS]

01:18:15   that's what I would do if I was you but [TS]

01:18:17   you on the other end are the I want to [TS]

01:18:19   clean install I want it to be custom I [TS]

01:18:21   want it to be stocked just you know [TS]

01:18:22   minimal stuff on that's how you are in [TS]

01:18:23   your Mac so you may be inclined to do [TS]

01:18:25   that on your phone - just to get it to [TS]

01:18:27   get a fresh start that's kind of what [TS]

01:18:28   I'm thinking like mainly what I have on [TS]

01:18:30   this phone that I would that I would [TS]

01:18:32   want somewhere else to be honest it's [TS]

01:18:36   it's just the the contact data you know [TS]

01:18:39   it really isn't anything beyond that so [TS]

01:18:41   in the pictures and stuff I've got those [TS]

01:18:43   all loaded off but I'm bet you know what [TS]

01:18:45   I'm bad about you probably don't have [TS]

01:18:47   this problem because you don't own you [TS]

01:18:49   don't own an iOS device is all take [TS]

01:18:51   pictures and videos and stuff and and [TS]

01:18:54   I'll offload them to the computer but I [TS]

01:18:56   typically don't always delete them from [TS]

01:18:58   the phone so then eventually a you know [TS]

01:19:01   like some half blurry picture of you [TS]

01:19:04   know my kid running through the room [TS]

01:19:06   from six months ago that I should have [TS]

01:19:07   deleted and just never got around to I'm [TS]

01:19:10   sure you don't have that problem no we [TS]

01:19:13   don't well all we have is the iPod Touch [TS]

01:19:14   with the crappy camera so we try not to [TS]

01:19:16   take pictures with the hat because [TS]

01:19:17   they're so low quality so yeah we're not [TS]

01:19:19   we don't end up with stuff building up [TS]

01:19:20   on the phone although we should take [TS]

01:19:22   video with it with the video and the [TS]

01:19:24   iPod Touches it's good enough for like a [TS]

01:19:26   web video which is all we really use it [TS]

01:19:27   for but yeah that's the thing about [TS]

01:19:31   photostream - like oops so you are going [TS]

01:19:33   to be taking pictures with your forest [TS]

01:19:34   camera certainly and videos and [TS]

01:19:36   everything like that and photo stream [TS]

01:19:37   will be taking those pictures at least [TS]

01:19:39   and magically syncing them so they [TS]

01:19:40   appear in iPhoto um but I'm not sure if [TS]

01:19:44   the lack of flexibility the apparent [TS]

01:19:46   lack of flexibility will annoy you for [TS]

01:19:47   example I've already seen people [TS]

01:19:48   complaining today about the fact that [TS]

01:19:51   they take screenshots on their iPhone [TS]

01:19:53   either because it's part of their job [TS]

01:19:54   that takes screenshots of a particular [TS]

01:19:56   app they're reviewing or something into [TS]

01:19:57   sir [TS]

01:19:58   technology reviewers and writers and [TS]

01:19:59   stuff and that stuff shows up in iPhoto [TS]

01:20:02   I want you know because you take the [TS]

01:20:04   picture take the screenshot it shows up [TS]

01:20:06   in your photos folder on your phone and [TS]

01:20:07   photo streams IPPs it over to iPhoto and [TS]

01:20:09   you don't really want the screenshots of [TS]

01:20:11   some app you're reviewing to be an [TS]

01:20:12   iPhoto you gotta like delete them and [TS]

01:20:13   stuff and then it's like you know what [TS]

01:20:16   is it keep a thousand photos or 30 days [TS]

01:20:18   with the photos whichever comes first [TS]

01:20:19   and it will trim that off on your iOS [TS]

01:20:21   device I think it'll work okay for the [TS]

01:20:24   general case but for people who are [TS]

01:20:25   picky about what exists where I don't [TS]

01:20:28   know make it annoying you you try and [TS]

01:20:30   tell me after the first month of like [TS]

01:20:31   taking pictures of your kids and stuff [TS]

01:20:33   if this is better worse or the same than [TS]

01:20:35   your old method of just like leaving on [TS]

01:20:37   the phone and forgetting into there and [TS]

01:20:38   occasionally plugging it and syncing it [TS]

01:20:40   and stuff like that somebody on Twitter [TS]

01:20:41   just said to me that eat indeed I'm [TS]

01:20:45   paraphrasing indeed odd you know back at [TS]

01:20:51   chats and other things like that are [TS]

01:20:53   backed up and restored and they were [TS]

01:20:55   there on the person's iPhone for another [TS]

01:20:57   they're on the person's 4s that's not [TS]

01:20:58   what we're talking about actually well [TS]

01:21:00   well that's a good question I saw a [TS]

01:21:02   comment like that to you I of course [TS]

01:21:04   that I can tell you that that's the case [TS]

01:21:05   because I've done that before all the [TS]

01:21:07   videos like so obviously that happens [TS]

01:21:09   when you plug it into iTunes right but [TS]

01:21:11   what yeah what are your is I cloud-based [TS]

01:21:14   restore right an iCloud based restore or [TS]

01:21:17   just I cloud-based syncing of data like [TS]

01:21:19   and in a way I might I might not want [TS]

01:21:22   that I might not want and we'll we [TS]

01:21:24   talked about verbs but I'll just pick an [TS]

01:21:26   iMessage I might not want every single [TS]

01:21:28   iMessage chat that I've had with you [TS]

01:21:31   know 10 different people to show up on [TS]

01:21:33   every iOS device that I don't want that [TS]

01:21:36   do you do I I don't know someone else [TS]

01:21:39   mentioned the chatroom that apparently [TS]

01:21:40   you can't delete photos from photo [TS]

01:21:42   stream so be careful with the whatever [TS]

01:21:45   it is you may be doing with your phone [TS]

01:21:47   camera taking pictures [TS]

01:21:48   whereas it says where does it send them [TS]

01:21:50   it sends them up to iCloud and then you [TS]

01:21:53   get them on your local copy of iPhoto [TS]

01:21:55   right right right okay you're saying the [TS]

01:21:58   new version you're saying in a in a [TS]

01:22:00   situation where you take a picture of [TS]

01:22:02   something and you look at the picture [TS]

01:22:04   and you're like oh I don't like that [TS]

01:22:06   picture well guess what it's forever in [TS]

01:22:08   iCloud and forever in this iPhoto until [TS]

01:22:10   you delete it is that what you're saying [TS]

01:22:11   or someone in the chat room saying that [TS]

01:22:13   you can't delete pictures and photo [TS]

01:22:15   stream now [TS]

01:22:15   my guess would be if I was a photo that [TS]

01:22:18   I didn't want I would delete it off my [TS]

01:22:19   phone and I would delete it off of [TS]

01:22:20   iPhoto and then I would be surprised if [TS]

01:22:23   if I deleted off all of my devices if [TS]

01:22:25   it's still like if I turned on a new [TS]

01:22:26   device suddenly that picture shows up [TS]

01:22:27   there even though I had deleted it [TS]

01:22:29   successfully deleted it on all the other [TS]

01:22:31   devices that's why I talked about the [TS]

01:22:33   lack of flexibility that you know [TS]

01:22:34   there's this there's this server [TS]

01:22:36   repository of data and this is Apple's [TS]

01:22:39   whole model apples model is not like [TS]

01:22:40   Google model.i apples apples model is [TS]

01:22:42   server canonical but it's it's [TS]

01:22:43   application centric it's not server [TS]

01:22:45   centric so there's no web interface to [TS]

01:22:47   photostream where you say this is the [TS]

01:22:49   actual repository data you can [TS]

01:22:51   manipulate it here and then devices pull [TS]

01:22:53   from that it's icons just like a [TS]

01:22:55   waypoint it's like a junction station or [TS]

01:22:57   a conduit it's not a thing in itself so [TS]

01:23:00   as far as I know there is no like well [TS]

01:23:02   here's the native way to look at your [TS]

01:23:03   photos that are in photo scream and your [TS]

01:23:06   devices will will push it to your [TS]

01:23:07   devices or there pull them down you know [TS]

01:23:09   in those things but this is the real [TS]

01:23:10   repositories if you want to delete it [TS]

01:23:12   delete it here and then it will either [TS]

01:23:15   still be on your devices and you can [TS]

01:23:16   delete it from them or it will [TS]

01:23:17   automatically get deleted off your [TS]

01:23:18   devices so it's weird when you have [TS]

01:23:21   multiple devices like if I delete that [TS]

01:23:22   photo from iPhoto what I do I want that [TS]

01:23:24   to be deleted from my phone like what [TS]

01:23:27   does the user expectation theirs is the [TS]

01:23:29   users mental model versus the model that [TS]

01:23:30   Apple has made here some users would say [TS]

01:23:32   ah well I was deleting it because it was [TS]

01:23:35   an embarrassing picture and because my [TS]

01:23:37   mental intent was that well obviously I [TS]

01:23:39   want this deleted it's an embarrassing [TS]

01:23:41   picture I can't believe it wasn't [TS]

01:23:42   leading from my phone the second I [TS]

01:23:43   deleted it from my phone [TS]

01:23:44   but on the other hand someone will be [TS]

01:23:45   saying I want this picture on my phone [TS]

01:23:48   but I don't really want it in my iPhoto [TS]

01:23:49   library right because I just use it as a [TS]

01:23:50   wallpaper so when I deleted an iPhoto [TS]

01:23:52   and then it went delete it on my phone I [TS]

01:23:54   didn't want that right so business [TS]

01:23:55   there's plausible scenarios for users [TS]

01:23:58   being upset no matter what Apple does in [TS]

01:23:59   this situation and there's no like [TS]

01:24:02   canonical middleman interface like let [TS]

01:24:05   me just look at what's in the conduit [TS]

01:24:06   and say I want to eradicate this from [TS]

01:24:08   history delete it from the source [TS]

01:24:10   and then delete it from the devices and [TS]

01:24:11   now I know that picture is nowhere [TS]

01:24:12   because I can look in this magical [TS]

01:24:14   iCloud and say it's not in the iCloud [TS]

01:24:15   it's not on my iPhone and it's not on my [TS]

01:24:17   on my Mac so when I buy a new iOS device [TS]

01:24:20   I sure as heck don't expect it to appear [TS]

01:24:22   there when I enter my iCloud input [TS]

01:24:23   because where did it come from it [TS]

01:24:24   doesn't exist anywhere but we have no [TS]

01:24:27   ability as far as I know to inspect [TS]

01:24:28   the constants of iCloud directly it's [TS]

01:24:30   all viewed through applications even if [TS]

01:24:32   it's just a web application at iCloud [TS]

01:24:33   com [TS]

01:24:34   you're still kind of viewing it through [TS]

01:24:36   the lens of an application there's no [TS]

01:24:37   one canonical application so again I [TS]

01:24:41   think this this will probably do what [TS]

01:24:43   people want in the common case but [TS]

01:24:44   they're easily imaginable scenarios [TS]

01:24:46   where no matter what it does it's going [TS]

01:24:49   to do something that's unexpected or [TS]

01:24:51   upsetting to someone and more more [TS]

01:24:52   flexibility and more a better [TS]

01:24:54   understanding of how it works would be [TS]

01:24:56   great here especially for pictures and [TS]

01:24:58   stuff that can be embarrassing you know [TS]

01:25:00   more explanation required yeah maybe [TS]

01:25:05   we'll just use it for a while and get [TS]

01:25:06   used to it when you get used to anything [TS]

01:25:07   they're the first two or three times [TS]

01:25:08   that happens you figure out you start [TS]

01:25:10   modifying your mental model to match how [TS]

01:25:12   the thing actually works and I think for [TS]

01:25:14   the common case people are just so [TS]

01:25:17   thrilled when a picture shows up in [TS]

01:25:18   multiple places like you know take I [TS]

01:25:19   take a pictures and it's automatically [TS]

01:25:21   on my Mac and I bought a new device my [TS]

01:25:22   pictures were there that's that's 90% [TS]

01:25:25   you've already won at that point people [TS]

01:25:26   just amazed when stuff works and these [TS]

01:25:29   details about deleting an embarrassing [TS]

01:25:31   picture and stuff I think are probably [TS]

01:25:34   only things that people like us are [TS]

01:25:37   thinking about at this point it would be [TS]

01:25:38   nice to have and I think Apple will have [TS]

01:25:39   to eventually address it but for the [TS]

01:25:41   first version just having your stuff [TS]

01:25:42   sync on all your devices and not having [TS]

01:25:44   to plug into iTunes will be nice but we [TS]

01:25:50   will have some follow-up on this for [TS]

01:25:51   sure next week or you will because I'm [TS]

01:25:53   nothing anyone taking pictures of my iOS [TS]

01:25:55   devices pee we can talk about it yeah [TS]

01:25:57   I'll try all these things out or I'll [TS]

01:25:58   try some of them out and if you are if [TS]

01:26:00   you have specific things you want me to [TS]

01:26:02   try to email me or chat me and I'll try [TS]

01:26:04   them out we can talk about it next week [TS]

01:26:06   and in the meantime if you'd like to you [TS]

01:26:09   can hear previous episodes of this show [TS]

01:26:10   5x5 dot TV slash hypercritical you can [TS]

01:26:14   follow John on Twitter he's siracusa si [TS]

01:26:18   RA see you ese I'm Dan i doing it right [TS]

01:26:23   on Twitter I'm not doing it right [TS]

01:26:25   no I spelled it you did you spelled it [TS]

01:26:29   right but you didn't break it up the [TS]

01:26:30   right way [TS]

01:26:30   okay maybe you want to break it up [TS]

01:26:33   it's okay going I'm damned Benjamin on [TS]

01:26:36   Twitter and this is hypercritical thanks [TS]

01:26:40   for the reviews [TS]

01:26:41   thanks for the ratings in iTunes well [TS]

01:26:45   should we say sponsors easy DNS comm / [TS]

01:26:48   5x5 you've use coupon code 5x5 you'll [TS]

01:26:52   get 10 bucks off Rackspace comm / 5x5 [TS]

01:26:55   that's it go play with your iPhone 4s oh [TS]

01:26:58   good day by John [TS]

01:27:12   you [TS]