0:00:03this is hypercritical weekly talkshow
0:00:05ruminating on exactly what is wrong in
0:00:07the world of Apple and related
0:00:09technologies and businesses nothing is
0:00:11so perfect that it cannot be utterly
0:00:14obliterated by my co-host John siracusa
0:00:18I'm damned Benjamin this is episode
0:00:20number 35 and we'd like to say thanks to
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0:00:38- green tech comm / 5x5 how are you John
0:00:44siracusa you keep changing a tagline
0:00:47it's it's nothing so perfect that it
0:00:49can't be complained about the planning
0:00:51aspect is supposed to emphasize the
0:00:53pettiness and ridiculousness oh you know
0:00:55but you will iterate to know that that
0:00:57makes it sound like I'm taking down this
0:00:59thing you are but I am totally not I am
0:01:02mostly just whining and complaining
0:01:03that's why the word complaining is so
0:01:05essential miss tagline otherwise I
0:01:07realize it sounds too earnest no no I I
0:01:09mean it you can do that occasionally as
0:01:12long as it's clear that what you're
0:01:13doing is further compounding the
0:01:16ridiculousness of the statement but if
0:01:18it's repeated show after show sources
0:01:20like that is that the tagline I've only
0:01:21listened to three episodes and they
0:01:22always say obliterated so you got to
0:01:24like get a balance it have I said
0:01:25obliterated ever before oh I don't know
0:01:28a lot lots of synonyms for that but I
0:01:30think you have said it obliterated a few
0:01:32times before I don't know you point is
0:01:34mixing complaint mixing the the verbatim
0:01:36I was loci Paul I apologize I'm sorry
0:01:39it's not you know I guess the show's
0:01:41over now yeah well this is the follow-up
0:01:43segment so that's where we issue
0:01:46Corrections and and react before - I
0:01:49have follow-up for the show that hasn't
0:01:50really even happened yet oh it's
0:01:52happening now you're soaking in it
0:01:54alright next up the number one the
0:01:57number one follow-up Wow
0:01:59you're on fire today John the number one
0:02:01follow-up I have is for you it's not
0:02:02even for me did you read this one I
0:02:04maybe it was about something you talked
0:02:08about that I didn't comment on beside
0:02:10didn't know anything about it but we
0:02:12were talking about Lucas
0:02:13is stuff that he does to Star Wars God
0:02:17and you brought up an analogy by way of
0:02:22explaining that what Lucas was doing was
0:02:24not put this other person was doing I
0:02:25think that was the point up but it was
0:02:27about the Clockwork Orange novel yes
0:02:30Anthony Burgess yes and you got a couple
0:02:32of Corrections from people pointing out
0:02:35that final chapter yeah do you want to
0:02:37do this correction but you know more
0:02:38about them no I tell me tell me that the
0:02:40complaint is and then I will I'll
0:02:42respond so I think what you said was
0:02:44that he added these chapters they added
0:02:47a final chapter to the novel after the
0:02:49fact and that either was or wasn't like
0:02:52what George Lucas was doing but in fact
0:02:54the couple people who wrote in said that
0:02:57that final chapter was in the original
0:02:59and then it was taken out it was removed
0:03:00from the versions that were sent to
0:03:02certain countries and then put back in
0:03:03right
0:03:04that's correct I don't like that version
0:03:06of history and I tell it my own life all
0:03:09right well I just wanted to point that
0:03:10you did actually get a book I did and
0:03:12that is true and and the story goes that
0:03:14he did write the chapter and as you
0:03:18mentioned it was included and this is
0:03:19something I knew a lot about it was
0:03:22included as you mentioned to have
0:03:24depending on where so I'm pretty sure
0:03:26that American audiences never saw that
0:03:29chapter until a rerelease of the book
0:03:31later and perhaps the UK audiences did
0:03:35see it or it may be I have that
0:03:36backwards anyway the point is like you
0:03:38said different different publishers and
0:03:41different countries saw different
0:03:42versions of that some where I'm sorry if
0:03:45I'm Luke where Alex is it ends with the
0:03:52statement I was cured all right and then
0:03:56in other ones there's a whole additional
0:03:59chapter that shows Alex coming back home
0:04:01and seeing Pete Georgie and dim doing
0:04:03different things and anyway and maybe
0:04:09him starting over with a new crew with
0:04:10that kind of anyway I having having a I
0:04:14saw the movie first and I read the book
0:04:17after and I did both of those things at
0:04:19about age 16 or 17 and and I remember
0:04:25reading the last chapter
0:04:27and at first I thought all that was that
0:04:29was kind of neat and then later on
0:04:30thinking you know it's it is a little
0:04:34bit more interesting if you leave that
0:04:35off it doesn't quite tie things up as
0:04:37well and that's more like life so in my
0:04:39mind it's almost like as you as as
0:04:42you're fond are saying and we can
0:04:43pretend we never there was no Godfather
0:04:453i to me that that last chapter is the
0:04:49more like the Godfather 3 than it is
0:04:52like George Lucas coming back in and
0:04:54tweaking things that should have been
0:04:56tweaked because in fact it was not
0:04:57written later it was written originally
0:04:58and just without so there you go alright
0:05:02I think that clarifies your intent a
0:05:04little bit okay just right before we get
0:05:07off the Star Wars topic there was one
0:05:08more reader letter from Aaron Pressman
0:05:11he said that he heard me say that no one
0:05:14should ever have the prequels in their
0:05:15house if they can help it Brian I agree
0:05:16and he says so I'm guessing you don't
0:05:18have a son aged 6 to 12 well in fact I
0:05:20do have a son aged 6 to 12 and he's he's
0:05:24pointing out that his son watches the
0:05:26prequels and likes them and he can't
0:05:27dissuade him from the idea that the
0:05:30prequels are good yeah and can't get
0:05:32them to like the older movie so on and
0:05:34so forth
0:05:34he made a very important mistake which
0:05:38was first acknowledging the existence of
0:05:41the prequels that was bad but eventually
0:05:43you can't help that because your kids
0:05:44talk to their friends but never show
0:05:47your children the prequels like if you
0:05:49even if you have them in the house do
0:05:50not show them to your children my kids
0:05:52have never seen the prequels and you
0:05:55know it just solves that problem
0:05:57entirely they watch they watch the
0:05:59original three Star Wars movies when
0:06:00they want to watch Star Wars and that is
0:06:01Star Wars to them I do let my son watch
0:06:03the Clone Wars cartoon on TV because
0:06:05it's computer animated a cartoon you
0:06:08know it's kind of like a spinoff right
0:06:09type series and it is vaguely related to
0:06:12the prints prequels and it does have
0:06:13Gungans and stuff but first of all that
0:06:15cartoon is better than any of the
0:06:16prequels movies which is a low bar I
0:06:17admit but you know it's a kid show where
0:06:20I although some adults seem to like the
0:06:22the things and second it satisfies his
0:06:24need to have common ground with his
0:06:26friends to talk about clone troopers and
0:06:28stuff like that because they exist in
0:06:29the cartoon thing but no never show you
0:06:31children the prequels it's just it's not
0:06:33right so I have not shown it to them I
0:06:35don't I'm assuming eventually when he's
0:06:37an adult he will see them or something
0:06:38but it'll be too late by that I will
0:06:40what I'm trying to do is imprint him
0:06:41like baby birds are imprinted with their
0:06:42mother birds you know face imprint him
0:06:45with the correct Star Wars movies
0:06:47I believe I've already done that but
0:06:49still has not seen a prequel so that
0:06:51that's my advice do not show your
0:06:53children the prequels ever so in the in
0:06:55the siracusa house there are two rules
0:06:58it seems like three rules and maybe only
0:07:01three rules the first rule is no
0:07:03prequels the second rule is no Godfather
0:07:05three and the third one is no
0:07:06commercials I could live there there are
0:07:10many more rules but you've got some good
0:07:12ones there keep your office fastidious
0:07:14my four-year-old knows how to skip
0:07:16commercials the t-bone now it's
0:07:20excellent and they have no desire to see
0:07:23them you would think sometimes like
0:07:24they'd be like oh I want to see that
0:07:25that commercial looks fun interesting no
0:07:27they just want to get back to the show I
0:07:29have not taught them select place like
0:07:3230 select yet people can google that if
0:07:35they care one more I actually have seven
0:07:40more things follow up so this is one
0:07:41more reader feedback thing Andrew Martin
0:07:43wrote in to talk about when we were
0:07:47discussing the home screen on the iPad
0:07:51remember that like how it's a big grid
0:07:53of icons and I was disappointed that
0:07:54they didn't do something more
0:07:55interesting with it yes and I imagined
0:07:57in my fictional Steve Jobs universe that
0:08:01he was the one who saw a bunch of
0:08:03alternatives and said let me just do a
0:08:04grid of icon that works fine on the
0:08:05phone well blah he wrote in to remind me
0:08:08that the tablet project was first which
0:08:10I knew and he extends that information
0:08:14to say therefore the interface it was on
0:08:17the iPhone actually came from the iPad
0:08:19and I don't think we can conclude that
0:08:21we know that the tablet came first
0:08:23because Steve Jobs has said so and
0:08:24because it was a Safari pad rumors way
0:08:26back when that gets acknowledged from
0:08:29official sources that they were working
0:08:30on a tablet first even though the phone
0:08:31ship first we don't know what that habit
0:08:34looked like and whether it had
0:08:35springboard on or whether the home
0:08:36screen was exactly the same so on and so
0:08:38forth so I don't think just because the
0:08:41tab was developed first we can assume
0:08:43that the iPhones grid of icons was
0:08:45derived from the iPad and even if it was
0:08:48it doesn't matter what path the grid of
0:08:53icons took to get
0:08:53to the iPhone when it came time to the
0:08:55iPad like there's a reason they didn't
0:08:56release the Safari pad or the things
0:08:58they had before and I don't think all
0:09:00the reasons are 100% hardware that you
0:09:02know they didn't think it was ready for
0:09:03primetime after the phone came out and
0:09:05they read that OS few times and got it
0:09:07all nailed down and everything then he
0:09:08said okay now we know how to do a tablet
0:09:10right at that point you know it's not as
0:09:12long as if you're beholden to what you
0:09:14did before and say oh now we have to
0:09:16release like say the iPad did have a big
0:09:18ray of icons bareback one and not now
0:09:19you don't have to release it with the
0:09:21same grid of icons because you've
0:09:22learned so much more from the phone you
0:09:23could do something different so that was
0:09:28worth mentioning when we were discussing
0:09:29that but I did want to say that I knew
0:09:32about that and didn't doesn't change how
0:09:33I look at that situation right
0:09:37being never never any markdown follow-up
0:09:39this is my own fault because I have like
0:09:41a little paragraph here and on markdown
0:09:43file but I keep skipping parts of its
0:09:44life and last one John Gruber apparently
0:09:46did he even did he even we don't know
0:09:50did even if you didn't listen he's a
0:09:52very very busy man yeah you know he
0:09:54needs a lot of sleep I don't I don't
0:09:59know if you guys don't think it's
0:10:01interesting enough for him to bring up
0:10:02on your show I agree with that
0:10:04assessment but of course I do think he
0:10:06should listen to every episode of my
0:10:07shock fourth so I already did
0:10:11Corrections about how I misspoke about
0:10:13what turns things bold and italic and
0:10:15the main the main point I had in this
0:10:17thing which I keep skipping over was
0:10:18that markdown doesn't put out B in ITEX
0:10:21it does M and strong tags for emphasis
0:10:23and strong you know it's it's using the
0:10:26old style everyone everyone hated being
0:10:28I tags is more a thing for the big web
0:10:31show we could talk about was Elton but
0:10:33no one like being ID extra zero
0:10:35presentation tags they were saying
0:10:36you're telling the thing to make the
0:10:38text bold but you're supposed to use
0:10:39semantic markup that says what does it
0:10:40mean don't tell me what it's supposed to
0:10:41look like I use I thought about that
0:10:43while you were talking yeah yeah and I
0:10:45said you know what it nobody cares it's
0:10:48not worth it well no one cares anymore
0:10:49but remember as as Merlin so he's the
0:10:52great worthy chosen the Talmudic debates
0:10:54about beating the i-x man yes wrong I
0:10:56remember those days uh yeah markdown is
0:11:00definitely of that era and so is John
0:11:02Gruber for that matter I know and and
0:11:05and I and I assume you were you know cut
0:11:06our web teeth during
0:11:07the wasp web standards you know and the
0:11:11people who know who zelma good all day
0:11:12yeah so yeah it's still him it's a man
0:11:15strong instead of being I and me saying
0:11:17that it admits be and I it was just
0:11:18sacrilegious
0:11:22what else to be and I don't see God so
0:11:24that's it for the follow-up I'm gonna
0:11:26have a mini topic before we dive back
0:11:29into the Windows 8 stuff which I'm not
0:11:31sure people liked or didn't like we
0:11:32didn't get a lot of good we had almost
0:11:33no feedback really yeah I think that is
0:11:35a good sign because when people like
0:11:37I'll stop talking about you know
0:11:38whatever programming aware they don't
0:11:39like but if known says anything I think
0:11:42it's a thumbs up silence means consent
0:11:46but before we do that I want to talk a
0:11:49little bit about Netflix and Qwikster so
0:11:52this is a case where the news when did
0:11:55that happen on Monday or Sunday maybe
0:11:57Friday but the dinners came in every
0:11:59other show gets a chance to talk about
0:12:00it before I do because I happen to be on
0:12:01a Friday sometimes it works in my favor
0:12:03like I'm the first one to get it if
0:12:04something happens on the Thursday but in
0:12:06this case it happened early in the week
0:12:08so I figured by the time I got to talk
0:12:09about it everyone else would have
0:12:10covered everything in it and they pretty
0:12:12much did I was also looking around the
0:12:15web to see if I could find like you know
0:12:18that everyone has editorials on the
0:12:20topic I here's what I think about a
0:12:21paulblatt
0:12:21eventually I assume one of those
0:12:24editorials will contain pretty much my
0:12:25opinion 100% they I think most of them
0:12:30covered a lot of the bases that I want
0:12:33to talk about but there was one theory
0:12:34that didn't see expressed explicitly in
0:12:37a lot of places now it was the idea of
0:12:41like what
0:12:41why does two things why one that my main
0:12:46complaint about this entire PR apology
0:12:48thing that the Netflix put out was what
0:12:50I would I always hate about corporate
0:12:51communications when when I feel like
0:12:53even though if it uses plain language
0:12:54and everything which Gruber seems like
0:12:56when I think what they're what they're
0:12:59writing in there PR does not reflect the
0:13:02real motivations for the action or only
0:13:04partially reflects them that that's what
0:13:06I don't like or you know intentionally
0:13:09ignores an obvious point you know
0:13:11something like that so when they wrote
0:13:13this P odd like here's what we're doing
0:13:14here's why we're doing it I didn't
0:13:15believe I didn't find it believable the
0:13:17reasons they stated for why they were
0:13:18doing it were the reasons not 100%
0:13:21now I do believe that they're afraid
0:13:23that screaming was going to be that
0:13:26there were there wouldn't be blindsided
0:13:28they were going to be stuck as those
0:13:29DVDs by mail guys and they wouldn't they
0:13:31would not write a hundred percent
0:13:32believe that but then it's like alright
0:13:34so then what do you do about it we
0:13:35decided to do this about it and that's
0:13:37where I feel like there was a gap in
0:13:39them explaining the motivations like you
0:13:40okay so you decided you this and you're
0:13:42not stupid you must realize you know
0:13:45you're not that's if you must realize
0:13:47how that makes experience worse for your
0:13:49customers so there has to be some
0:13:51counterbalance to that the
0:13:52counterbalance isn't I can say we're
0:13:54afraid of of being pigeon-holed
0:13:57therefore we're going to do this thing
0:13:58to make our customer experience worse no
0:14:00they were afraid of being vegetable
0:14:02therefore we do this thing which helps
0:14:04us in unsaid way X that we're not going
0:14:06to tell you and hurts you in this other
0:14:08way they will try to shut it down play
0:14:11right all right
0:14:12I really hate corporate communications
0:14:14where they don't tell you or they'll you
0:14:16know it's not like they're lying to you
0:14:17about the motivate this is an error of
0:14:18omission you know the worst ones are
0:14:20where they just outright lies they we're
0:14:22doing this because we think it provides
0:14:23the best experience for customers so I
0:14:24don't think they said that you know they
0:14:26didn't explain why they were doing this
0:14:28bad thing but they didn't try to dress
0:14:30it up and say this is going to be
0:14:31awesome for customers you know so I'm
0:14:34trying to think about and a lot of the
0:14:35people trying to go what you know why
0:14:36are they doing this they must see the
0:14:38downside there must be some upside that
0:14:40helps them towards their stated goal of
0:14:42not you know of being around in the
0:14:44future I saw a couple of good theories
0:14:47about my one theory that didn't see is
0:14:50kind of vague that's probably why I
0:14:51didn't see a busy if you can't support
0:14:52it very well no use writing it up was
0:14:56that having the DVD business I've
0:14:58actually seen the opposite of this
0:14:59theory ah but alright having the DVD
0:15:03business is an impediment to them
0:15:05negotiating their streaming contracts
0:15:07I've heard people say that it's an
0:15:08advantage they can use it as a stick to
0:15:10say you know well fine if you don't give
0:15:12a stream we're just going to buy your
0:15:13DVDs and you can't stop us from that
0:15:14because of the first sale doctrine so
0:15:16tough luck I think having a DVD business
0:15:18tied to them was hurting them in
0:15:21negotiations like it it's a distraction
0:15:25it was it was something that the other
0:15:27companies didn't like they did and that
0:15:30you know that this is the bumpy ride
0:15:32agrees that the streaming people would
0:15:34say well look at all this DVD
0:15:35only subscribers you have we want to
0:15:36count them in your per user usage fees
0:15:39or whatever for streaming they say but
0:15:40don't count them because I never stream
0:15:42all this so they separate them off and
0:15:43on together but I just like having that
0:15:44they're like having you guy going to
0:15:46negotiate streaming and having the other
0:15:48person the other side at table
0:15:49constantly asking you about and telling
0:15:51you you know asking you questions about
0:15:52and throwing back in your faces DVD
0:15:54thing it's just separate it so we are a
0:15:56streaming only company we're only going
0:15:58to go she ate streaming and I think
0:15:59their long-term goal is to get a
0:16:01situation in which legally practically
0:16:04in all possible ways they got no side
0:16:07table can't say anything about the DVD
0:16:09business it's a well what about the no
0:16:11that's not even us you know even if we
0:16:13want to do we loved we would love to do
0:16:15exactly what you say about the DVD visit
0:16:17but we can't because legally we have no
0:16:18control over them they're a separate
0:16:19entity there's no you know spin them off
0:16:22basically cut cut ties do it new a
0:16:24complete separation so that when they
0:16:26negotiate they negotiate only in terms
0:16:28of streaming the DVD DVD stuff is not is
0:16:30it is not a distraction and if that's
0:16:33the case I find it weird they didn't
0:16:35just say that you know I might just say
0:16:37we that's that's the way these things
0:16:39they're so Paikin obtuse that you you
0:16:41just you never get there the real deal
0:16:43isn't it
0:16:45corporate culture is such that you would
0:16:47never explain that like that's a that's
0:16:49an internal strategy that you'd only
0:16:51discuss internally you would never tell
0:16:52customers like we have to get rid of the
0:16:55DVD thing because it's impairing our
0:16:56ability to de gauche e84 streaming
0:16:58contracts for reasons XY and Z because
0:17:00that you'd be showing your hand to the
0:17:02people you're negotiating with and B
0:17:03that's like that's like internal stuff
0:17:06right but it still bothers me when like
0:17:08you have to make a public relations
0:17:10announcement and you can't tell them the
0:17:11real reason you're doing it of course
0:17:14there's always the the really cynical
0:17:16thing which is they're just really dumb
0:17:17and make horrible steaks like HP don't
0:17:21spend too long thinking about the
0:17:22motivation and some secret reason really
0:17:24they're just really dumb and making
0:17:25horrible mistakes yeah because when
0:17:27you're afraid you can't make horrible
0:17:28mistakes it's they're kind of admitting
0:17:29they're afraid like we are afraid of
0:17:30being you know marginalized and look
0:17:33here's a horrible mistake in response to
0:17:34that fear all right I don't
0:17:40oh and the other thing a quick start
0:17:42since everyone gave their little
0:17:43personal like what they're doing with
0:17:45Netflix in quick store I think you said
0:17:46that you are still getting both right
0:17:49I know I I am only getting the Netflix
0:17:53streaming we switched to that a while
0:17:55ago before the price range oh well
0:17:57before the price change huh well before
0:18:00the price change as soon as to be on you
0:18:02know what you know what I think I
0:18:03switched over to it was probably about
0:18:07when did they start offering about three
0:18:10years ago I think we switched about it
0:18:12they within the last within the last two
0:18:15years we didn't I'm trying to remember
0:18:17when they actually made the switch but
0:18:19it was um you know we we were just the
0:18:23boy was about I guess he was about to
0:18:25and I just we just didn't have time to
0:18:28watch the movies and it was like
0:18:29everyone else we had a couple of these
0:18:30DVDs sitting here and and I said you
0:18:33know it I probably be much easier
0:18:34especially when the Apple TV support for
0:18:36it became so great that it was just a
0:18:40no-brainer and especially with all the
0:18:42the kids stuff that's there there were
0:18:44tons of shows that we liked that we
0:18:47thought he would like and he did like
0:18:48that it and you know it's so easy with
0:18:51the Apple in if I have to Apple TVs
0:18:53three actually if you include the old
0:18:55generation model but two of the little
0:18:58black ones I go one in here and the on
0:18:59in the office studio and got another one
0:19:01out in the family room and it's great
0:19:04and you can watch netflix on all of them
0:19:06at the same time yeah so I haven't I
0:19:08haven't received a Netflix DVD in a long
0:19:10time I think you remember who is Gruber
0:19:14Oh Merlin who was who pinpointed the
0:19:16Netflix disc anti-pattern where if you
0:19:19don't have careful queue management the
0:19:21things that end up at the top of your
0:19:22queue are the movies that you think you
0:19:24ought to see but you aren't ever
0:19:26actually motivated to see how is Johnnie
0:19:28installs the queue that is definitely
0:19:30that's part of their that's part of they
0:19:32rely on that yeah that lot no they rely
0:19:35on or not I mean but it happens you know
0:19:37because you get you get a nice good flow
0:19:39through the queue and then like you just
0:19:42mismanagement leads to and the bunch of
0:19:44movies that the real the psychology at
0:19:46work there is that I find this and I
0:19:48think other people find this too you
0:19:49don't want to return a movie you haven't
0:19:51seen because then you think you wasted
0:19:52your time it's the the fallacy of sunk
0:19:53costs there in reality what you should
0:19:55just do is return the thing and get your
0:19:56cue moving again but you're like I'm but
0:19:58but I'm going to get it again like you
0:20:00feel obligated to not return until you
0:20:01watch it which is stupid but
0:20:03that's what people do I'm in that
0:20:04situation right now I have I'm on the
0:20:06one disk and then screaming plan and
0:20:08that one disk has been up there for four
0:20:10weeks because it was an unmatched top of
0:20:13the queue thing where I didn't realize
0:20:14that was the top of the queue and yeah I
0:20:16think it was like put there by my wife
0:20:18and she's not watching and I'm not
0:20:19watching itself but yeah I am still a
0:20:23disc and streaming thing this this this
0:20:25is why people are pissed about people
0:20:28who are still dissing streaming they're
0:20:29pissed about this thing is that as I
0:20:31think a group are now as well the
0:20:33streaming stuffs just not there yet like
0:20:34my movie-watching as a person with kids
0:20:37in a job and everything is that I watch
0:20:39movie review shows to read movie reviews
0:20:40online and when I see a current movie
0:20:42that that looks like it has good reviews
0:20:43I think I might want to see rather than
0:20:45going to the movie theater to see it I
0:20:46throw it on my Netflix queue because
0:20:47Netflix nicely lets you add movies to
0:20:50your queue even when there's still no
0:20:51theater so you just save it and then
0:20:53when it becomes available we'll go there
0:20:54right there and then you know a couple
0:20:56months later when it's available on
0:20:58blu-ray or DVD blu-ray most of the time
0:21:01for me now it comes to your house you
0:21:03get to watch it the alternative is edit
0:21:06your Netflix queue when it's in theater
0:21:07and then wait four and a half years
0:21:08maybe if you're lucky you get to CNN
0:21:11streaming maybe six years or ten years
0:21:13or God knows how it may never appear on
0:21:15screaming and by the time it does you
0:21:16you're not participating in the culture
0:21:18like right everyone else is watching
0:21:20this great movie that you really want to
0:21:22see like the latest Coen Brothers movie
0:21:23and you can't get to the theater to see
0:21:24it so you're gonna wait for the comments
0:21:26screaming you'll be waiting a long time
0:21:27like you know a decade later like I
0:21:30finally saw a serious man great are you
0:21:32describing my life right now yeah so
0:21:34that that's why I'm never leaving the
0:21:37disc stop until the streaming has a
0:21:39chance to come closer I also like the
0:21:42fact that you can get blu-ray which is
0:21:43the highest quality thing you can
0:21:44usually download if you're downloading
0:21:45illegally you can get blu-ray rips but
0:21:47that's just you know a disembodied
0:21:48version of a blu-ray so so yeah
0:21:53hybl continue to get the discs because I
0:21:55want to see first-run movies in its
0:21:56somewhat reasonable timely fashion and I
0:21:58don't really blame Netflix for the fact
0:22:02that they can't get the people to agree
0:22:03to the screaming contract is the media
0:22:05company so that's my final point on the
0:22:06Netflix I almost wrote a little thing
0:22:08about it because I haven't written
0:22:09anything for the web ages so I thought
0:22:11maybe I should write this but it seemed
0:22:12too obvious so I'll just chuck it out
0:22:14here and a couple sentences ah
0:22:17this Netflix quickster thing is like
0:22:19another example of within the TV
0:22:23industry business companies that people
0:22:26love can't seem to stay in business TiVo
0:22:29and Netflix for two examples people
0:22:31loved TiVo people love Netflix like well
0:22:34great you given the customers what they
0:22:35want these are the shining stars as far
0:22:37as the consumers are concerned of this
0:22:40industry right and these companies that
0:22:43people love just can't seem to get it
0:22:45together they're in financial trouble
0:22:46all the time they're forced to do things
0:22:47that are bad for customers they start
0:22:49TiVo's putting their ads all over the
0:22:50things or devices getting slower Netflix
0:22:52is constantly you know doing things that
0:22:54people don't like and splitting their
0:22:56business and you know and when companies
0:22:59that people love can't stay in you know
0:23:01can't stay in business or can't can't
0:23:03thrive and grow the way we think they
0:23:05should based on how much consumers like
0:23:07their products that's a sign of an
0:23:09unhealthy market that's a sign of too
0:23:11much power concentrated seafood too few
0:23:13places the content owners the cable
0:23:15companies all the powers that are
0:23:16aligned against TiVo and Netflix are
0:23:18aligned against them because they're
0:23:19incumbents with a you know a huge amount
0:23:22of power over the pipes to your house
0:23:24over ownership of the content or you
0:23:26know relationships with the congeners
0:23:27and they are leveraging that advantage
0:23:30is the same way Microsoft leveraged
0:23:31their ownership of the desktop to make
0:23:33things worse for consumers but better
0:23:35for them so this I would say the
0:23:36television industry seems to be the most
0:23:38sick the most you know industry that it
0:23:41has the most problems movies television
0:23:42you know combined you know music had a
0:23:45similar problem but was sort of forced
0:23:47into the future by Apple and here's an
0:23:50example like this would be as if iTunes
0:23:52came along and people loved it but
0:23:53iTunes was crushed under the thumb of
0:23:54big music lucky the music company's work
0:23:56didn't have as much power as the TV and
0:23:59movie industry seemed to and you know
0:24:02the industry got crushed by enjoins
0:24:03instead but this is an example where the
0:24:06structure of the market is so horribly
0:24:08lopsided that these great companies just
0:24:11can't just can't get out you know TiVo
0:24:13is being crushed by the stupid set-top
0:24:15boxes that they're that are all worse
0:24:16than Tebow and meanwhile TiVo's boxes
0:24:18are getting worse on top of them
0:24:20meeting in the middle you know our TiVo
0:24:23will get really bad it also get kind of
0:24:24mediocre and then everyone'll have
0:24:25mediocre boxes and Netflix we all want
0:24:27we know what we all want Netflix give me
0:24:29the movies like if they could come out
0:24:30exactly
0:24:30the same time that's what consumers have
0:24:32you ask them hey would you like it if
0:24:33you could get a high-definition
0:24:35streaming version of first-run movie for
0:24:37a subscription price and maybe will be
0:24:39more expensive than it is now would you
0:24:40like that people say yeah every movie
0:24:42that comes out yes every TV show that
0:24:43comes out yes I don't I don't want to
0:24:45have to know when something is airing on
0:24:47a channel I don't want to have to
0:24:48subscribe to a giant package of channels
0:24:50I want you know maybe that can be
0:24:53available but I would rather see them a
0:24:55rather have more of an ala carte
0:24:57selection and I would like to in real
0:24:58time like we know what consumers want
0:24:59but the industry is just not set up to
0:25:01allow that some degree as I think I've
0:25:03pointed out before the cost structure
0:25:05the way it is now is the thing that
0:25:09funds the shows of minority interest so
0:25:11you wouldn't get to see all these cool
0:25:12shows that you like if they weren't
0:25:13subsidized by all the people paying for
0:25:14like local sports or you know whatever
0:25:16other channels they get but there has to
0:25:19be a balance and right now the balance
0:25:21is way on the side of the content owners
0:25:23and the cable companies and you know the
0:25:25movie industry and it's against
0:25:26consumers and it's crushing or mutating
0:25:29or damaging the companies that we all
0:25:31love in this industry so that's my
0:25:36further depressing take on the world of
0:25:40television this reminds you the early
0:25:41episodes were whenever we were done I
0:25:43feel like I'm just crying take a nap
0:25:47yeah I can't think of an industry that's
0:25:49worse than this in this Dan Rowe music
0:25:51seems to be getting better we even
0:25:53gotten to the point where got rid of DRM
0:25:54books books is not great but it's better
0:25:57like nowadays when a new book comes out
0:25:59I can be pretty sure I can get a Kindle
0:26:01version of it you know
0:26:02whereas now in a movie comes out I just
0:26:05assumed there's I will not see streaming
0:26:07versions i movie in my lifetime you know
0:26:09maybe if you're lucky you know a couple
0:26:11years and now it'll come out but it
0:26:12depends on what deals and maybe it'll be
0:26:13on streaming for a little while but then
0:26:14won't be in the back of forget about the
0:26:16back catalog you can't find that either
0:26:17will I be able to even buy an HD version
0:26:20why have to pirate it is just you know
0:26:23it's ridiculous do you do you have do
0:26:25you have the Apple TV I'm waiting for a
0:26:28version 3 version 1 no way in hell I was
0:26:29going to buy version 2 I took a
0:26:31wait-and-see and then I came around to
0:26:32on version 2 or thinking that's better
0:26:35than my current Netflix box because
0:26:37Netflix on TiVo so horrendous is almost
0:26:38unusable even though as I said before I
0:26:40used to do TiVo through Netflix just
0:26:42because it was device that was on all
0:26:43the time
0:26:44and I didn't need to turn on another
0:26:46device to do it because my ps3 as much
0:26:49louder as the loudest thing in my
0:26:50entertainment stack but lately I've been
0:26:52watching TiVo on the PS the TiVo or
0:26:54watching Netflix on the ps3 just because
0:26:56the ps3 Netflix client actually works
0:26:59and the wait a year in a day for my cue
0:27:01to come up so I what I would like
0:27:04probably is when the Apple TV 3 comes
0:27:06out I will get it I'm hoping it will
0:27:08still have no fan and then I will have a
0:27:09completely silent device through which I
0:27:11can watch Netflix I don't think I'll
0:27:13ever buy I don't buy iTunes movies or
0:27:15anything like that the only time we
0:27:17bought any ones like that is for use on
0:27:18the plane we put them on the iPods and
0:27:19let the kids watch movies on the plane
0:27:21so that's our only use of iTunes buying
0:27:24the digital versions most of the time
0:27:25I'm recording stuff from TV and HD or
0:27:28I'm watching Netflix streaming I have a
0:27:31question for you about gaming consoles
0:27:35that's a whole - oh but yeah go ahead
0:27:37but before there some I actually wanted
0:27:40to tell you about right it's our first
0:27:42sponsor it's help spot com seem most
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0:27:4949 bucks a month per user that doesn't
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0:27:57spot it they're different this is a
0:28:00helpdesk application it has an owned
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0:28:04forever and a single user license starts
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0:28:08this allows for unlimited tickets per
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0:28:17people say well then 100 I know help so
0:28:19what do I need here's the thing if you
0:28:21have a business if you're doing any kind
0:28:23of interaction with customers whether
0:28:24you're you know a lot of web hosting
0:28:26companies use this but any kind of
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0:28:31developer and you want to catch bugs if
0:28:32you're have a website and you want to
0:28:34wait for people to give you feedback if
0:28:35you have a team of people who you all
0:28:37want to respond you need something like
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0:28:44guys that said that you got to do some
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0:28:47who runs the scene Landsman small
0:28:48business runs it himself he says I've
0:28:50got this crazy deal I'm going to do and
0:28:51he did it I shock me shock me
0:28:53help spot.com slash 5 by 5 you get a
0:28:56hundred bucks off
0:28:57your initial purchase it's a 99 bucks
0:29:00for single user license that you own is
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0:29:09customers or your employees or yourself
0:29:11do yourself a favor and go check this
0:29:13out help spot.com slash 5 go check
0:29:21are you there right now Johnny Reed hi
0:29:24I'm waiting for you to ask me my game
0:29:26console question it's 2011 it's
0:29:28September 23rd of 2011 and I have not
0:29:33owned a game console okay
0:29:36the last game console that we do have a
0:29:38Wii somewhere we played it a little bit
0:29:41and we got that we fit thing and then
0:29:43immediately but packed the whole thing
0:29:44um put away so we didn't you know we
0:29:47played a few games is fun
0:29:48neat a neat thing but what would you
0:29:50recommend to somebody get if they wanted
0:29:52to get a game console in 2011 September
0:29:5523rd what would you recommend what
0:29:56should they go and get you they wait for
0:29:57the the new Xbox thing to come out so
0:30:00you get an old ones they get a ps3 what
0:30:02do you what do you what do you think
0:30:03about this I'd have to do like an
0:30:05extensive take a history sort of Anna
0:30:08the doctor sense and figure I like what
0:30:11what is their history with games and
0:30:13what do they want to do with this new
0:30:14one because the answer changes based on
0:30:16their needs in their history with gaming
0:30:18I see not it's not like a question where
0:30:21you say why I want to get a personal
0:30:23computer why should I get you should get
0:30:24a Mac like it's not that simple it's not
0:30:25that easy no so if you want me to
0:30:29actually give you advice you can tell me
0:30:31about your history and I can give you a
0:30:32recommendation but I would say that game
0:30:34consoles the three game consoles the
0:30:36three traditional game consoles are
0:30:37different enough now that what you pick
0:30:41really depends on your history with
0:30:43gaming and what you want out of the
0:30:44device and I think you'd have to throw
0:30:45in the iPad and other iOS gaming devices
0:30:48in that mix as one of the possible
0:30:49recommendations based on whatever this
0:30:51person says about the gaming okay
0:30:53what would you say is your favorite
0:30:56right now I I don't have a favorite
0:31:00console I've been a big console fan for
0:31:03a long long time my my emotional
0:31:07favorite like I have to pick you know
0:31:10people people have their favorites for
0:31:11generation it was whether you were Sega
0:31:13Nintendo because that was the battle
0:31:14battle not obviously new tennis a lot of
0:31:16money mr. right
0:31:17Nintendo obviously yeah and then later
0:31:20it was PlayStation versus Nintendo and
0:31:23then there was Xbox versus PlayStation
0:31:24and so on and so forth so my allegiance
0:31:27has always been within Tendo and
0:31:29continues to be emotionally speaking it
0:31:30doesn't mean I think they've had the
0:31:31best product all the time and I
0:31:33certainly doesn't mean that I agree with
0:31:34all their business decisions because
0:31:35they really screwed the pooch many times
0:31:37in these various console wars but I like
0:31:40I'm a big fan of their first party games
0:31:43and with the exception of the team that
0:31:46made ICO and Shadow of the Colossus on
0:31:47the PlayStation no other team from any
0:31:51other vendor including Bungie and halo
0:31:52has the same loyalty in my heart as I
0:31:57have to Miyamoto and all those people
0:31:59who made the the first part Nintendo
0:32:01games so I'm a Nintendo guy but I have a
0:32:04PlayStation of PlayStation 3 PlayStation
0:32:062 we and a Gamecube and I've never had
0:32:10any of the Xbox things for reasons
0:32:12related to something that I mentioned it
0:32:16done and I was like show number three
0:32:17and it was the first negative review
0:32:19that we got people didn't like the fact
0:32:20that was bringing up Hitler so we'll
0:32:22bring it up again you can go back and
0:32:23listen to that show for the my
0:32:25ridiculous and now actually about why I
0:32:27don't have Xbox my house so reddit or
0:32:32Windows 8 yeah I think I think we should
0:32:35is there more to say there is I just
0:32:37want to mean what I was doing last time
0:32:39was just going through my sort of
0:32:41stream-of-consciousness notes that I
0:32:42took while watching the video it was the
0:32:458 great traits of Metro apps the poorly
0:32:47named poorly titled video that really
0:32:50just explains the philosophy behind
0:32:51Metro I didn't get through all them so I
0:32:53just want to finish them up then I
0:32:54really organized in any way except for a
0:32:56sort of chronologically as we go along
0:32:59with the presentation super so in build
0:33:03and analyze Marco had some good points
0:33:06and I have these in the beginning here
0:33:08first of all I loved I loved how Metro
0:33:11and the Windows 8 thing is getting like
0:33:13other 5x5 host riled up about this
0:33:16because it show I mean when when have
0:33:17you seen any kind of excitement about
0:33:19the content of something that Microsoft
0:33:22is doing not like the business strategy
0:33:23or the implications for the industry
0:33:25like a product they made that's
0:33:26interesting enough for us to want to
0:33:27talk about it right right that that's
0:33:30that should be heartening for Microsoft
0:33:32like the Alan Kay thing I think it was
0:33:34him who said the Macintosh is the first
0:33:35computer good enough to criticize and
0:33:37people always ask me why don't you
0:33:39review windows or talk about Windows
0:33:41stuff and stuff like that most of the
0:33:42time it's because I think it's not even
0:33:44worth criticizing but Windows 8 is
0:33:46definitely worth criticizing Mike and I
0:33:48have been or talking about criticizing
0:33:50is just like why all right it's worth
0:33:52thinking about analytically interesting
0:33:55enough to engage your attention and his
0:33:59the more the points in he had I really
0:34:01like was how the metro UI scales to a
0:34:03complicated application because they
0:34:06didn't didn't show that much they showed
0:34:07like here's the world's simplest you
0:34:09know demo newsreader application you
0:34:11know it's as if used you only saw cocoa
0:34:14app that showed you like the Currency
0:34:15Converter example from way back one you
0:34:17say well so how do I use cocoa to make
0:34:18like a complicated application like you
0:34:20know Photoshop person could I even do
0:34:21that right with Metro they I think a lot
0:34:25of the question comes from the fact that
0:34:27the demo apps they showed you were
0:34:29intentionally simple and they do want it
0:34:30to be simple like an iOS app but you can
0:34:32see like a sophisticated iPad app even
0:34:35something like the iPad Twitter app like
0:34:36that's a pretty complicated application
0:34:38in terms of the things you can do with
0:34:39it and the different UI controls and the
0:34:41gesture is like you can build up iOS UI
0:34:44to be pretty complicated that may be
0:34:45true of Metro true but it's hard to tell
0:34:47from the demos because the demos are
0:34:49necessarily simple and if you just look
0:34:51at those squares with little text and a
0:34:52picture and um you're like yeah but how
0:34:54do I make like a real like a big honkin
0:34:57application on that and so that's an
0:34:59open question huh I think it's I don't I
0:35:04don't condemn it for that because the
0:35:06demos have to be simple you have to show
0:35:07here's how you make a central
0:35:09application that shows a list of items
0:35:10or here's how you show a bunch of photos
0:35:11being displayed or a really simple email
0:35:13app it's not their job to build a solid
0:35:15I've yet to build a complicated
0:35:17application now the question is it's
0:35:18always Microsoft gonna make you know the
0:35:20equivalent of pages on on the iPad you
0:35:22know leading to word for metro and show
0:35:25us show us the way how do you take a
0:35:28full-featured
0:35:29desktop caliber application and adapt it
0:35:32to this context taking advantage of the
0:35:34things you know yeah obviously not going
0:35:35to Porter wholesale bring all the
0:35:36features but how do you fit that in
0:35:38that's kind of
0:35:38to Microsoft to show everybody right now
0:35:40that was kind of saying here are the
0:35:42rules of this new universe and here is
0:35:43some simple examples within it let me
0:35:49dig about dashboards the the risk of
0:35:51Metro is that it ends up being like
0:35:52dashboard like I think it was mostly
0:35:54thinking like on PCs on Windows and PC
0:35:56it's like well I've got my Windows 8
0:35:58thing here which looks like Windows 7
0:35:59but with a few other little thingies and
0:36:01then if I hit this little thing this
0:36:03other thing comes up it looks like Metro
0:36:05and yeah I looked at it a few times and
0:36:06let it stop going there like dashboard
0:36:08yeah although I I have a dashboard fan I
0:36:11use it constantly but I can understand
0:36:12how people if they don't ever find a use
0:36:14for it it's out of sight and out of mind
0:36:16what do you use on dashboard at my home
0:36:19Mac I have let's look uh Oh Mac I just
0:36:21have a bunch of clocks stock ticker
0:36:23calculator weather calendar and
0:36:26dictionary dictionary I use the most and
0:36:27I don't look aboard figure out how it's
0:36:30spelled or whatever little dictionary
0:36:31like Google is better than the
0:36:32dictionary for you if you want know how
0:36:33to word is spelled put it into google
0:36:35visible say did you mean I'd love that
0:36:36lied if you want to know the definition
0:36:39put it into the little dictionary app
0:36:41and when it work I actually use it as a
0:36:44dashboard so this is a feature that I
0:36:46didn't think I would ever use remember
0:36:47like and I was in with a 10-5 I think
0:36:50maybe was just a Safari release with a
0:36:52web clips thing yes you could sort of
0:36:54rubber band around my section of a web
0:36:56page is later like a dashboard widget
0:36:58out of it and show like okay I'm rubber
0:36:59band around Garfield and now every day
0:37:00when I go to this thing I go see
0:37:02Garfield strip right like it's dumb and
0:37:06later they refined it to not to not just
0:37:08rubber banding around stuff but you it
0:37:09would just do like the block region
0:37:11selection you know here's this content
0:37:12block well I finally started using that
0:37:15at work because at work we have tons of
0:37:17graphs and people care about server-side
0:37:20stuff a ganglia graphing cacti just
0:37:22similar things and graphite there's
0:37:24another graphing app and they're spread
0:37:26all over a whole bunch of different
0:37:27servers and whole bunch different web
0:37:28pages and we have lots and lots of
0:37:30graphs ah now I could you know have all
0:37:34those web pages open in tabs permanently
0:37:36and shuffle through them but like a lot
0:37:38of them Auto refresh and when they Auto
0:37:39refresh especially gangly it doesn't
0:37:41always scroll to the same position so
0:37:42now you're at the top of the big screen
0:37:44full of 100 graphs and like I just want
0:37:46these seven graphs at this size and
0:37:47that's what I want to see so what I do
0:37:49is make a local HTML file
0:37:51and put in just the three or four graphs
0:37:53that they want and rather than arranging
0:37:55those graphs in an HTML file keeping a
0:37:57giant browser window open I just do the
0:37:58open and dashboard thing it's like to
0:38:01each one of those graphs and then I
0:38:02arrange the graphs on my little
0:38:03dashboard so when I put my cursor into
0:38:05the corner I see all the graphs that are
0:38:07relevant may at the current time in the
0:38:09sizes that I want arranged the way I
0:38:10want Auto refreshing because they're
0:38:11derived from local HTML files with like
0:38:13a meta refresh header in them that
0:38:14cycles through them it's great it's way
0:38:16better than any solution that I've ever
0:38:19had for let me quickly look at how these
0:38:21servers are doing in these aspects and
0:38:22then get it at them away you know
0:38:24because if you put it in a browser tab
0:38:26it gets buried underneath other stuff
0:38:28where it gets closed or you have to
0:38:29scroll around it's just a mess but
0:38:30dashboard is so much it's it is like a
0:38:32dashboard of you know they have these
0:38:33for like Knox and other you know control
0:38:38centers where you need to see a bunch of
0:38:39stuff at once but this is this is one
0:38:40that's on your computer you know so
0:38:41obviously this is not a common problem
0:38:44that people have but if you work in
0:38:45server-side software I highly recommend
0:38:48giving that a try all right we're still
0:38:53go back to news-8 so Microsoft Microsoft
0:38:57Windows 8 yes
0:38:59so resuming I know it's one of the
0:39:00things they said on the on the stage
0:39:01this is the middle presentation sorry
0:39:03lesson listened to the last episode and
0:39:04pretend it ends in the start right here
0:39:06they said every single pixel is for your
0:39:09app it's like every single pixel on the
0:39:12screen of I guess they're using a tablet
0:39:13in this example write this for your app
0:39:15there's no status bar and chrome ish
0:39:16stuff there's no other other things on
0:39:19the screen like you literally have from
0:39:21the upper or left to the bottom right
0:39:22and just draw whatever you want on that
0:39:24thing we will not mess with you right
0:39:25and that is as many other things that
0:39:28they've done in this presentation is the
0:39:29antithesis of what Microsoft has ever
0:39:31done before because their entire history
0:39:33with both our applications and their
0:39:35operating system has been the addition
0:39:37of panes and windows and toolbars and
0:39:40widgets and just they are constantly
0:39:42adding crap like you've seen the
0:39:43humorous screenshots where they show
0:39:44like Microsoft Word with every single
0:39:45toolbar enabled me was like I'll enough
0:39:47room for four characters of text and the
0:39:49rest of the thing is just a giant UI and
0:39:50the ribbon thing was trying to address
0:39:52that so they've got a bunch of tabs on
0:39:53their thing rearrange the toolbars like
0:39:55a fancy or different toolbar but you
0:39:58know a window where the Vista had that
0:40:00sidebar thing and they have the quick
0:40:02bar and the task
0:40:03and has marking go to levels in Windows
0:40:0595 then they rearranged it in Windows 7
0:40:07they were constantly a like that's how
0:40:09you measured progress in your operating
0:40:12system what geegaw did they add to this
0:40:14application or to this operating system
0:40:15that kind of gets back to my point at
0:40:17the end of the line review is that reach
0:40:19the point where desktop operating
0:40:21systems aren't judged based on how many
0:40:23geegaws and panes and new things on the
0:40:26screen you can click they add now we're
0:40:27judging them by how much stuff do you
0:40:28remove not not removing the interface
0:40:30only but also removing concepts that
0:40:34were rooted in technology decisions that
0:40:37were decades old and now can be
0:40:39revisited so like mental clutter and
0:40:41concepts you don't have to deal with
0:40:42anymore remove them sober judge it's
0:40:44like reversing the sequence iOS
0:40:46obviously is the you know a huge
0:40:48reversal an epoch you got to start fresh
0:40:49it didn't have to chop everything down
0:40:50one at a time but I think Microsoft is
0:40:53now at that point with Windows 2 where
0:40:54they're saying let's not add let's stop
0:40:57adding crap let's take things away and
0:40:59they've sort of done the iOS things
0:41:00let's take everything away it's no menu
0:41:02bar there's no menus there's no scroll
0:41:03buzz there's no you know just remove
0:41:04everything start fresh and you get the
0:41:06entire screen right now it was kind of
0:41:09funny that Microsoft still couldn't
0:41:12resist adding crap like this this is the
0:41:14new philosophy right and well obviously
0:41:17the Windows desktop hiding underneath it
0:41:19so that's their big out like you know oh
0:41:21yeah you can click this thing you're
0:41:22back to the Windows well no wait wait a
0:41:23minute I've read some things that have
0:41:25come out since our last show did where
0:41:29we talked about this that have actually
0:41:31said that the Windows desktop what we
0:41:34think of as you know all of what we
0:41:37would see if you used a currently
0:41:39released version of Windows and probably
0:41:41everything prior that that what we think
0:41:44of as Windows today prior to Metro that
0:41:47is actually not loaded and none of that
0:41:50code is loaded or exists or runs until
0:41:53or unless you launch that Windows
0:41:56desktop the aside from Metro in other
0:41:59words Metro is truly its own separate
0:42:01thing and and even the code isn't loaded
0:42:04for the traditional Windows desktop and
0:42:07unless you launch that the Metro is not
0:42:11really as well so Metro isn't like a
0:42:13shell on top of it or another an edition
0:42:15players by saying last show like they're
0:42:17more like siblings okay and which one
0:42:19gets launched first you know the other
0:42:21one isn't running but but I'm saying
0:42:22it's there well hazel didn't so they
0:42:24couldn't do what I always did which is
0:42:25there's no way to get Mac os10 on your
0:42:27iPad like we don't have a button there
0:42:28you set a fine
0:42:29right so that in typical Microsoft
0:42:31action they couldn't abandon but even
0:42:32within metro they could not resist
0:42:34adding a little widget II thing and in
0:42:37fact the fact that they edited on the
0:42:38side like so
0:42:39the the top and the bottom or for the
0:42:42application and the the left in the
0:42:44right side or for the system I make if
0:42:45you're looking at a tablet screen so on
0:42:48the right side they have this thing
0:42:49called charms or if you swipe in from
0:42:51the right side this little slide view
0:42:53looks kind of like the Vista sidebar
0:42:54comes out with a buncha icons and that's
0:42:55what's that that's a gigawatts a pain
0:42:57with a bunch of stuff in it with little
0:42:59things you know even though every single
0:43:01pixel is for your app they they love to
0:43:04add stuff like that yeah and if you
0:43:06think about Apple Apple didn't do that
0:43:08like they resisted that as long as they
0:43:09could they had to add something for
0:43:11multi application switching so now you
0:43:13know double tap on home a thing slides
0:43:14up but they didn't do that in version 1
0:43:16version 1 that just like is it tapping
0:43:18the icon something launches when you
0:43:19close it it goes back you have a bunch
0:43:20of icons this no folders there's no
0:43:22things popping out of the side there's
0:43:24no shelf there's no tray there's no
0:43:26notifications there's no multi you know
0:43:27they really stripped it down the edit
0:43:29back slowly now from day one
0:43:31Microsoft is coming out with well you
0:43:33got your charms on the right hand side
0:43:34right that's a horrible name by the way
0:43:36charms I forget what's on the left side
0:43:42but but they did try to give the entire
0:43:45screen to the app but that means they
0:43:46needs to be if you're given the whole
0:43:47screen to the app it needs to be some
0:43:49way to activate these things right and
0:43:52when they were showing the demos at
0:43:53first they were doing the you just swipe
0:43:55in from the right side this is again on
0:43:56a tablet so swiping from the right side
0:43:58and there's your charms or whatever you
0:44:00know other things you can get from the
0:44:01swiping upper left right and so I said
0:44:03oh they must have touch sensors in the
0:44:06wait for it everybody should I say it
0:44:08the right way the wrong way I like it
0:44:10when you say it the wrong way I can try
0:44:14to think about it a new way comebacks
0:44:15another person as though I come with the
0:44:18new way every week yeah that's what I
0:44:21was thinking that they were adding touch
0:44:22sensors you know beneath the plastic
0:44:24trim of the the tablet I like although
0:44:26if you make a Windows 8 tab
0:44:27you must have they had those censors who
0:44:29had that the touchpad have that somebody
0:44:31the pre certainly had that little swipe
0:44:33area yeah on bottom and I think I don't
0:44:36know the touch I didn't I didn't buy a
0:44:38touch pad for 99 bucks oh I don't know
0:44:39the touch but I had one but I thought
0:44:41that was interesting they were
0:44:42committing to like at an OS level you
0:44:46had to have this touch area on the edge
0:44:47but my understanding that is not the
0:44:49case that they do not require you to
0:44:51have any touch sensors anywhere except
0:44:54for on the screen and in fact what
0:44:56they're doing is taking a one pixel
0:44:58border of the entire screen and saying
0:45:01if you swipe across that border or
0:45:04something if you they're basically using
0:45:06the screen to figure out when you're
0:45:08swiping in from the top bottom left and
0:45:10right someone the chatroom can correct
0:45:12me I don't think that's the case but my
0:45:14understanding from watching this demo is
0:45:15they are not required to put touches
0:45:18anywhere except for the screen and
0:45:19Windows 8 will figure out that you
0:45:21swiped in from the left or even from the
0:45:24top ran from the bottom to activate
0:45:25things which is a little bit touchy
0:45:27because that you're wasting all the
0:45:28finger movement until you hit screen and
0:45:30then it's got a sense that you're
0:45:31swiping in versus I simply placed my
0:45:34finger on the far edge of the screen and
0:45:36moved like what if you want to move
0:45:37something that's touching the edge of
0:45:38the screen and you happen to stick your
0:45:40finger on the edge of the screen trying
0:45:43to move the thing of the things you
0:45:44swiped in from the right maril I don't
0:45:46know I have to try but my my being down
0:45:51on this technique comes from watching a
0:45:54represent who's who we had to do Windows
0:45:568 demos constantly trying to swipe in
0:45:58from left swipe it like they're trying
0:45:59to look casual but they have to keep
0:46:01calling it the thing because it's not
0:46:02it's not taking their first activation
0:46:04and that doesn't look good like when the
0:46:05iPhone was first demoed there was less
0:46:08of that fumbling like the person who was
0:46:10demoing it I think it was Steve Jobs
0:46:11might have been somebody else it was not
0:46:14unsuccessful with with a gesture and
0:46:15these are not rare obscured gestures
0:46:17like pinch and twist or any other weird
0:46:19thing like that this is supposed to be
0:46:20the most calm its equivalent of hitting
0:46:21the cone the HOME key on an iOS device
0:46:23bring up the system UI swipe in from the
0:46:26left or right side and that's an
0:46:28essential feature for task switching and
0:46:29for other things that we get to in a
0:46:30little bit so on a really common gesture
0:46:34like that being awkward enough to the
0:46:35people who invented this thing are
0:46:37fumbling a stage a demo does not bode
0:46:38well for the decision to not require
0:46:41hardware
0:46:41and not require touch sensors anywhere
0:46:43but the screen you know so that was that
0:46:48was disheartening to me I liked their
0:46:50idea of system UI and the sight like
0:46:51having having a system it's good for
0:46:53Microsoft like we come up with the
0:46:54system and this is what it is and it's
0:46:55sensible and we think it will work but
0:46:57their chosen implementation for those
0:47:00activation gestures I think is highly
0:47:02suspect sure what else do we have
0:47:09oh this was already brought up I think
0:47:11in a previous show but I had that I had
0:47:13another note for it I mean notes here of
0:47:14their constant avoiding of mentioning
0:47:16iOS should be iPad windows-based you
0:47:19know etc tablets how many of you have
0:47:22rearranged icons on some system like it
0:47:26must have taken months of training for
0:47:28them to you know electric shock collars
0:47:30for them to not say iOS iPad or iPhone
0:47:32but they managed to do it so next one is
0:47:37the landscape orientation they decided
0:47:41did landscape orientation is the sort of
0:47:44the default and I did all the testing
0:47:46based on people gripping a like a
0:47:47steering wheel you know like you're
0:47:49gripping it on the sides yeah thumbs
0:47:50poised over the thing mm-hmm like
0:47:52holding holding it is if you would a way
0:47:54I'd like you say a steering wheel or or
0:47:56a Wii with the weird attachment on yeah
0:47:58and this is the way they think well
0:48:00people will use the thing and so they
0:48:01did all this they were showing all these
0:48:03heat maps like we had people with
0:48:04different sized hands show where their
0:48:05thumbs could reach we may heat maps
0:48:07based on okay everybody can reach here
0:48:08and then a few people can reach there
0:48:09and they tried to cluster their control
0:48:11so people could reach them with their
0:48:12thumbs while they were doing the thumb
0:48:14keyboard which of course the iOS has as
0:48:16well in iOS 5 with the split thing with
0:48:18the thumbs on the side I have it that's
0:48:21interesting to me because I don't I
0:48:24don't see people using iPads like that
0:48:27maybe because iPads aren't designed like
0:48:29that and so there's no reason for you to
0:48:31hold it in that manner and use your
0:48:32thumbs because the keyboard doesn't
0:48:34split yet then iOS for the controls are
0:48:38on a range like that people right i io s
0:48:40apps on the iPad not with the controls
0:48:43clustered around where your thumbs would
0:48:45be in landscape mode so it's hard to
0:48:47tell what comes first you know but it'd
0:48:50be interesting to see when Windows 8
0:48:52tablets come out look when you see
0:48:54people I'm assuming some day you will
0:48:55see the
0:48:55blend public with Windows 8 tablets
0:48:57Microsoft really helps you will someday
0:48:58and when you see them look to see if
0:49:01they are using it in landscape and if
0:49:03they're doing the thumb thing I think
0:49:05that's not a very natural or comfortable
0:49:07way to use a tablet for a long period of
0:49:09time and I think the two hand engagement
0:49:11or even just one hand engagement like
0:49:12that it's more of a commit like it's
0:49:15more of a commitment people more of a
0:49:17physical commitment to use it like that
0:49:19I think unless you're playing a game
0:49:20when I see people using iPads it's like
0:49:22relax like you're leaning back like they
0:49:24have a couches on the stage for the
0:49:25Apple Keynote demos with a demo the iPad
0:49:28when you sit down on the couch I'll put
0:49:30this on my lap and then it sits on
0:49:31something it rests on your lap rests on
0:49:33a pillow or it's propped up in something
0:49:34and then you just you tap it with one
0:49:36hand and then maybe you read and then
0:49:37you move stuff around like it's not grip
0:49:40it with two hands like you're wrestling
0:49:41an alligator and constantly hope they
0:49:43would do it like you're really like
0:49:44you're playing Mario Kart with the Wii
0:49:46we get the steering crazy open it with
0:49:48two like that's not the type of
0:49:49engagement I think about for a tablet so
0:49:51I don't know that's going to fly for
0:49:53them but I mean the proofs gonna be in
0:49:54the put it was when you see people in
0:49:55public using Windows tablet see if
0:49:57they're using like if it's if they're
0:49:58not all that concentration of Apple of
0:50:01Apple of Microsoft doing all that
0:50:03testing and trying to design the OS and
0:50:05their apps around the idea of people
0:50:06using with their thumbs will have been
0:50:08misspent if people aren't using it that
0:50:10way and taking advantage of the work
0:50:12they've done I think of all the shows
0:50:16already talked about the the trying to
0:50:18reduce modes but they did want to have
0:50:19like press and hold and it changes into
0:50:21a mode they want to have that you know
0:50:22dragging the icons around you drag it
0:50:23down and you know I think was Margo
0:50:26already went up and talked about how
0:50:27that's kind of BS because it depends on
0:50:29how you define mode kind of start it are
0:50:31in a mode once you enter the swipe down
0:50:33phase and as you pointed out that is a
0:50:36very poor way it's not discoverable and
0:50:39it's complicated for what should be a
0:50:41simple operation right it's awkward and
0:50:43even that's an example of the people on
0:50:45stage on stage there was low I'll show
0:50:46you how you can rearrange tiles so you
0:50:48tap on the tile and pull down slightly
0:50:50and then it becomes sort of unseated and
0:50:52then you can drag it where you want
0:50:54right they can't just have it if you
0:50:56just apps absent mindedly swipe in your
0:50:58tile is flying so they have to have some
0:50:59you know
0:51:00method to do it so on iOS it's tap and
0:51:03hold and then they start doing the
0:51:04wiggle and then once they do in the
0:51:06wiggle you're clearly in you're in the
0:51:07wiggle mode right and you can
0:51:09I was then I move it around and it's
0:51:11frustrating and annoying and we hate
0:51:12dragging the littlewiggle things to the
0:51:13edge and stuff like that we'll get to
0:51:15that in a second but but it's a mode all
0:51:17right Microsoft Tseng see we don't want
0:51:18to have modes we want to have this
0:51:20awkward gesture that you have to do to
0:51:22move something rather than have modes
0:51:23and I don't know if that's the best move
0:51:27and I saw people in during the demos
0:51:30repeatedly have trouble rearranging
0:51:32tiles maybe it's because they're nervous
0:51:33and they're rushed and they want to they
0:51:34want to start moving the tile right away
0:51:36but I think that's representative users
0:51:37they're like they want to move this here
0:51:38move that there and at each time they
0:51:40have to initiate a move they have to do
0:51:41some awkward gesture that's not natural
0:51:42to them they keep misfiring on they're
0:51:45going to be annoyed it's going to be
0:51:46frustrating but the one neat thing they
0:51:49did have there was they showed they were
0:51:55there making fun of when you're in
0:51:56wiggle mode on iOS and you want to bring
0:51:57an application from screen 5 on your
0:51:58phone to screen 1 you drag it to the
0:52:01edge and then you wait and then it
0:52:02shuffles a screen and then 2 pauses and
0:52:04then it shuffles a screen then it pauses
0:52:06then it goes and finally you get to
0:52:07screen 1 you try to place it and God
0:52:08forbid you missed that drag or lands in
0:52:10some intermediate screen and all your
0:52:11icons get pushed off and rearranging
0:52:13icons on iOS is annoying for that reason
0:52:16so they said let's you know we don't
0:52:19have that problem we're going to take
0:52:20advantage of multi-touch so once you
0:52:22initiate the little pull down drag
0:52:24maneuver and you've got the thing under
0:52:26your finger and it's unseated from its
0:52:27spot you can take your other finger and
0:52:30flick flick flick the background along
0:52:32to get to the first screen which is way
0:52:35more natural and make sense on a big pad
0:52:37obvious doesn't make sense that much
0:52:38once on a phone where you can't fill
0:52:39those fingers on screen but a button on
0:52:41tablet you want to be able to use two
0:52:43hands like all right I'll hold the icon
0:52:44with this and flick flick flick the
0:52:45background moves underneath it and once
0:52:47we get to the screen I want then I can
0:52:48drag it to where I want the thing to go
0:52:49rather than this is a good we first
0:52:52person shooter analogy for people who
0:52:53already understand it I'm not kind of
0:52:55explained it further but rather than
0:52:56drag your thing to the edge to change
0:52:58your viewpoint have independent control
0:52:59of the thing that you're controlling you
0:53:03know the thing that you're manipulating
0:53:04and the where you're looking where the
0:53:07background goes you know has a drag to
0:53:09the edge to make the thing turn is that
0:53:11we analogy there so I think that's very
0:53:14interesting I think Apple should
0:53:15immediately copy that if they haven't
0:53:17already like put that in iOS 5 and iPad
0:53:19because just just steal it because it's
0:53:20a better idea than what they're doing
0:53:21now
0:53:24they also showed what they called
0:53:26semantic zoom which is another example
0:53:27of them trying to make up a term for
0:53:30something I think it's not that
0:53:31interesting they were showing the tiles
0:53:33and they were saying if you zoom way out
0:53:35you can see your clusters of tiles as
0:53:37just icons but as you zoom in more
0:53:39detail comes like it doesn't just shrink
0:53:40the tile so that the text is unreadable
0:53:42it has a a more abstracted
0:53:44representation it's basically level of
0:53:46detail this game this this podcast is
0:53:48full of gaming analogies they reduce the
0:53:50level of detail on the item when you
0:53:52zoom out and so they say look we're
0:53:54changing the semantics because now like
0:53:56for example the calendar app when you
0:53:58zoom in you can see like the entire week
0:54:00in your current day and your next thing
0:54:01but when you zoom out you just maybe see
0:54:02a calendar thing that shows you what the
0:54:04current day is and you know whatever
0:54:05right like they change the appearance
0:54:07it's not just a shrunken version up I
0:54:09think that's a good idea and if you have
0:54:10a zoomable interface that's a good idea
0:54:11as well but never sangs like say you see
0:54:15your little tile and you want to zoom in
0:54:17it's showing the week and you want to
0:54:18zoom in on a particular day like they
0:54:20were showing that you could with a zoom
0:54:22gesture you could get more detail from
0:54:24one of these tiles and they were showing
0:54:27it within applications as well like here
0:54:29we are looking at you know they the
0:54:31full-blown calendar app and I'm looking
0:54:33at the month view and I want to look at
0:54:34a particular week or day well I will
0:54:36just pinch zoom in on that week and it
0:54:37makes sense you're getting closer more
0:54:38detail farther away a less detailed
0:54:41broader view that sounds good and the
0:54:45semantics name semantic zoom name sounds
0:54:47good
0:54:48but I again questioned the use of what
0:54:51for most people is an awkward gesture
0:54:53that zoom pinch thing for something is
0:54:55common as I want to see what I'm doing
0:54:56this week people just want a single tap
0:54:57same thing with the mode stuff like the
0:54:59mode is annoying and locks you've been
0:55:01but it makes it so the simplest thing
0:55:03you can do a single touch with one
0:55:04finger can have different meanings
0:55:06that's what the mode is therefore like
0:55:08normally when you single tap an app it
0:55:09launches but in this mode when you
0:55:11single tap and drag an app you know
0:55:12rather than make you learn a more
0:55:15complicated gesture to do a more
0:55:17complicated thing so that you don't have
0:55:18to have modes Apple has chosen to and I
0:55:21think wisely in most cases have modes so
0:55:23that the simplest thing you can possibly
0:55:24do use a single finger to do a simple
0:55:26gesture of tapping or dragging with one
0:55:28finger that has different meaning that's
0:55:30what the modes are for so I don't think
0:55:31people want to use a calendar app that
0:55:34requires them to perform pinch gesture
0:55:35to
0:55:36get more detail about a day they just
0:55:37want to tap on the freaking day because
0:55:39that's what people know how to do and
0:55:40pinch gestures are really hard I have
0:55:42trouble doing them I find myself trying
0:55:43to pinch and it's not registering like
0:55:44pinch because I'm not moving my fingers
0:55:47away from each other my fingernails
0:55:48hitting before the pad of my thumb
0:55:49I don't even you know it's it's an
0:55:52awkward gesture and for other people
0:55:55it's less discoverable and it's just
0:55:57it's just it's more annoying to pull off
0:55:59mm-hmm it doesn't feel as good as
0:56:01tapping that's why I feel so effortless
0:56:02you just like the pad is in front of you
0:56:04is on your lap you just like let me just
0:56:05take my finger here and tap there and
0:56:07yes now show me this mr. pad and how
0:56:09about that and that's that's a much
0:56:11nicer experience then now perform this
0:56:14contortion with my finger to get more
0:56:15detail even though it sounds good like
0:56:17you're zooming do me a semantic zoom so
0:56:19I am highly suspect of that it doesn't
0:56:22mean you have to make your app like that
0:56:23but it's like this is what this is what
0:56:24Microsoft is showing about you know this
0:56:27is the way we think you should do things
0:56:30mouse and keyboard support actually yeah
0:56:34okay so on the topic of mouse and
0:56:35keyboard support : instead let's do our
0:56:38second sponsor get the unite good and
0:56:40clear things out its Rackspace I've
0:56:43talked about Rackspace before in fact
0:56:44because uh they've been sponsoring our
0:56:46shows for about a year a great sponsor
0:56:48and over the course of this year I've
0:56:50been hearing from from from different
0:56:52people in the audience who or email us
0:56:54to share their stories and everything
0:56:56else and and really what they write in
0:56:59about typically its how Rackspace cloud
0:57:02how they use it to host their own
0:57:04websites and their own apps
0:57:05people love the fanatical support than
0:57:08Rackspace offers that's sort of what
0:57:10sets them apart from really anybody else
0:57:12anybody else out there and so I thought
0:57:18it would read one of these I've read
0:57:19this one on another show but I liked it
0:57:21the guy's name if he's a real if this is
0:57:23real name and she claims to be Alex
0:57:25Blackie but we'll give him the you know
0:57:27benefit the doubt it's it's really him
0:57:28and here's what he writes he says I was
0:57:30with another shared hosting company and
0:57:32I was really fed up with the issues that
0:57:33they were from downtime to to other
0:57:35issues he's one of my friends are coming
0:57:37to Rackspace I signed up I had full root
0:57:39access server up and running in five
0:57:41minutes it cost me pennies and all my
0:57:44sites including all my client sites are
0:57:46now five times faster after moving to
0:57:48Rackspace
0:57:49it says I've only had to contact this
0:57:51aboard a couple times but every time the
0:57:53live support had a helpful answer within
0:57:55just a few seconds I don't think I'll
0:57:57ever have to move hosts again and that's
0:57:58the thing you don't realize how much of
0:57:59a pain it is to move around and if you
0:58:02have a service that you know that can
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0:58:05whatever you need and it's affordable
0:58:06and you can get a real person who
0:58:09understands what you're doing to give
0:58:10you help that is the as you would say
0:58:13John the trifecta so you can find out
0:58:16more by going to Rackspace comm slash
0:58:185x5 go there learn more about it
0:58:21sign up and you'll be supporting the
0:58:24show by doing so we we we appreciate it
0:58:27Rackspace comm / 5x5 that's it it's
0:58:32interesting there that our letter has
0:58:34someone mentioning a full route access
0:58:36server like they're speaking in the
0:58:38language of the people they want to do
0:58:39that to use their service they're not
0:58:41speaking to people who don't know what
0:58:42that means that's reassuring I think two
0:58:45experts yeah when they hear a hosting
0:58:47provider use in their advertising the
0:58:51lingo of their profession without
0:58:53equivocation without any apology that
0:58:56without without babying it down or
0:58:58trying to explain what it means it tried
0:58:59to get like they just they just want the
0:59:01people who know what they're doing
0:59:01because they know what they're doing you
0:59:03know I mean that's good corporate
0:59:05communication all right Windows eight
0:59:09mouse support so Microsoft's message
0:59:12here was don't separate the mouse and a
0:59:16touch interfaces and what they mean by
0:59:17that is so you've got you touch
0:59:19interfaces supposed to look like what we
0:59:20showed you so far in this thing make
0:59:21your app like this right and then you
0:59:23have to have Mouse's apart because s
0:59:25what Windows 8 is all about no
0:59:26compromises so when you do that don't
0:59:30add features that are only Mouse
0:59:31accessible like don't add right-click
0:59:32menus all over the place like well if
0:59:33you use touch you have to do this but if
0:59:35you happen to have a mouse you can just
0:59:36right-click on this knew this and said
0:59:37no don't don't do that you have to use
0:59:40you have to use them house I guess you
0:59:42have to use the mouse like a touch
0:59:43interface or you have to use a touch
0:59:44interface like a mouse they don't want
0:59:46you to add specific features that are
0:59:47custom there are custom for each into an
0:59:49interface I think they're trying to do
0:59:51that to avoid confusion and also to do
0:59:54the kind of Steve Jobs no arrow keys on
0:59:56the original Mac keyboard thing where
0:59:58they're going to force you to make a
0:59:59good
0:59:59good
1:00:00chinder face and they're not going to
1:00:01let you have the out of well I don't
1:00:04have to make this available by touch
1:00:05because they can just use their Mouse
1:00:06and right-click like that was the the no
1:00:08arrow keys in the original Mac was yeah
1:00:10well that's you know I don't have to
1:00:13make I know this whole Mouse thing they
1:00:14like in everything but I'm just going to
1:00:15make a keyboard interface you can just
1:00:17use these arrow keys to move around then
1:00:18you have to use the mouse to place your
1:00:20curve in fact that I'm you're gonna have
1:00:21arbitrary cursor placement support in my
1:00:23word processor I'm just gonna let you
1:00:24use the arrow keys they took the arrow
1:00:25keys off the keyboard you must use the
1:00:26mouse there's no other way to place the
1:00:28cursor there's no other way to select
1:00:30text paradigm shift right so they're
1:00:32trying to make users do what they want
1:00:34which is make a good touch interface but
1:00:36that also means that the mouse interface
1:00:37is going to be like it's going to be
1:00:39like using a touch interface with the
1:00:40mouse it's gonna be like using the iOS
1:00:41simulator for developers who have done
1:00:43that area was played with it feels weird
1:00:45feels weird to have an iPhone or an iPad
1:00:48screen with a mouse cursor over where
1:00:51you're clicking on stuff it's just it's
1:00:53just weird and I actually installed
1:00:55Windows 8 shortly after the podcast
1:00:57someone asked me if I was going to
1:00:58install the Windows 8 developer release
1:01:00and I didn't even think of that is that
1:01:02I was at free apparently it's free and
1:01:03it runs in VMware 4 so kudos to
1:01:06Microsoft so I downloaded it and
1:01:08installed Windows 8 in VMware you have
1:01:12to tell VMware that it's Windows 7 but
1:01:13that's the only complication but Vivid
1:01:15launches and it runs you know reasonably
1:01:17well and then so there I am using Metro
1:01:20with the mouse and it's weird it is very
1:01:22weird and I don't give I don't know if
1:01:24this is just because it's gnarly bad or
1:01:26whatever but I found it despite watching
1:01:29a 90 minute thing explaining how to use
1:01:30Metro I could not for the life of me
1:01:32figure out how to perform any of the
1:01:33things they did with their fingers with
1:01:34my mouse and for the record you have
1:01:36used a mouse before yes but like swipe
1:01:39in from the edge try pulling that off of
1:01:41the mask cursor first especially you
1:01:43know especially in a VM because like
1:01:45normally your cursor hits the edge of
1:01:46the screen but you know unless you go
1:01:48fullscreen in the VM and even when you
1:01:50do unless you're making unlike I didn't
1:01:51make the VM the full size of my 23 inch
1:01:53screen like performing the gestures that
1:01:57would be natural with your fingers with
1:01:59the mouse I found it very difficult to
1:02:00activate the system you know the charms
1:02:03and the system thing and stuff like that
1:02:04luckily you can activate the per
1:02:06application stuff the stuff that comes
1:02:07in from the top at the bottom just
1:02:08biting the Windows key which I didn't
1:02:10even know until someone mentioned it so
1:02:12there probably are
1:02:13our keyboard or mouse ways to easily do
1:02:16what I wanted but I couldn't discover
1:02:17them and I really tried but the rest of
1:02:20it you know it performs and looks the
1:02:21way it did in the demo and I didn't have
1:02:23any crashes and you know I will continue
1:02:26to monitor it monitor it and download
1:02:30the latest beta type things but the
1:02:32reason Microsoft is adamant on the no
1:02:35separate interfaces in addition to the
1:02:36making everybody make you a touch
1:02:37interface is that in their opinion this
1:02:39is a direct direct quote from the
1:02:41presentation a screen with that touch is
1:02:43a broken screen they think every screen
1:02:45the world will have touch in a few years
1:02:46and I think they may be right like I
1:02:47remember when getting back to the gaming
1:02:50analogies which apparently the show that
1:02:52are inescapable on the show when the
1:02:55Nintendo DS came out the original DS the
1:02:58dual screen portable gaming system from
1:03:00Nintendo and does the screen the top is
1:03:01just a regular screen but the screen
1:03:03sort of horizontally below that is a
1:03:05touch screen and around the same time
1:03:08Microsoft had it was fielding the PSP
1:03:11which is its portable gaming thing which
1:03:13is basically like what we all remember
1:03:15the atari lynx being but if you go back
1:03:17a look and actually look at an actual
1:03:19atari lynx it was hideous but the PSP is
1:03:22the thing you holding in with two hands
1:03:23like like marcus I wants you double
1:03:25tablet it's got a screen in the middle
1:03:26and you have controls on your thumb and
1:03:27buttons and your other thumb and you
1:03:28play your game you look at your screen
1:03:29and the DES was like this clamshell
1:03:31thing like a mini laptop with two
1:03:33screens one where the keyboard would be
1:03:35but it's a touchscreen in one of the top
1:03:36screen
1:03:36it was nonsensical people to understand
1:03:38what the hell you were going to do with
1:03:39that until they got one and then said oh
1:03:41I see you can do all those interesting
1:03:42things with hidden now this this was
1:03:44believe it was pre iOS chatroom can
1:03:46correct me but I'll leave that the Tendo
1:03:48BS was way before iOS was a glimmer in
1:03:52anybody's eye so they were one of the
1:03:54first people to show you could use touch
1:03:55interfaces and I remember thinking when
1:03:57I saw people with PS PS or when I saw a
1:03:59Sony revising the PSP or putting out PSP
1:04:01games I think man someone that Sony has
1:04:04got to be just crying bitter tears that
1:04:07they have launched a portable gaming
1:04:09platform without a touch screen because
1:04:11it once the the DS came out it was so
1:04:13obvious that like portable gaming
1:04:14devices have that touch screens and
1:04:16yours doesn't you are doing it wrong you
1:04:18are you know you have your hardware is
1:04:20wrong you can't fix this with software
1:04:21you want to sell this platform you
1:04:23didn't put a touchscreen it's like it's
1:04:24like stripping a computer without a
1:04:25mouse which
1:04:26many PC vendors we're doing it where we
1:04:28had that like the laptops they had to
1:04:30give you that trackball you can clip
1:04:31onto the side you remember that
1:04:32abomination yeah and like they didn't
1:04:34have pointing devices they just had a
1:04:35screen and a keyboard and you know Mouse
1:04:38what do you need the mouse for in a
1:04:39laptop so they had to have all these
1:04:41heart even even like after they realized
1:04:43they needed a pointing device they would
1:04:44still sell you their old laptop with new
1:04:46innards with this clip on crack ball
1:04:48really thing because Apple had a
1:04:49trackball and you know or some other way
1:04:52dip to insert a porting the pointing
1:04:54device on to their laptop leave one of
1:04:58them was this is a way back thing do you
1:05:01remember outbound systems am I getting
1:05:02that right chat room at an opening of
1:05:04the chat room is whistle were they held
1:05:05they would buy that Apple Macintosh
1:05:09hardware from Apple rip out the
1:05:11motherboards and stick them inside their
1:05:14own new portable cases so they would
1:05:15take an SE 30 motherboard jam it into
1:05:18their laptop case of their own making
1:05:20and sell you a portable Macintosh you
1:05:24know clone but not really clone because
1:05:26they were using ethanol it was I think
1:05:27they were Australian I think that's why
1:05:29I'm thinking they were called outbound
1:05:30but I remember I think this was them
1:05:31that they had a novel pointing device
1:05:33where below the spacebar there was a
1:05:36tube maybe was about the length of space
1:05:39bar maybe was full with that I remember
1:05:40all right here's what we do has
1:05:42something on this that you would roll
1:05:44the tube and when you roll the tube the
1:05:46cursor we're going to open down and when
1:05:47you slid your hand right and left on the
1:05:50tube the cursor would go right and left
1:05:51I have no idea what that point device is
1:05:53called I'm only remember my only big
1:05:55memories of it are from like ads and
1:05:56Macworld in like the 80s and 90s someone
1:06:00the chat room says yes it is outbound
1:06:02and someone actually remembers the tube
1:06:05but anybody that's I think about that
1:06:08age of like shipping PC laptops without
1:06:10Mouse like pointing devices that was
1:06:13embarrassing for the hardware vendors in
1:06:16the same way I think it was embarrassing
1:06:16for Sony to ship a portable gaming
1:06:19device without a touchscreen in a world
1:06:21that had the diecen and now Microsoft is
1:06:24basically saying it's going to be
1:06:26embarrassing for everybody in a few
1:06:27years if you don't whatever you sell it
1:06:30has to have a touchscreen on because
1:06:31without having a touchscreen it's just
1:06:33it's a broken device you it's ridiculous
1:06:35and I'm sure they hope that to be true
1:06:37because they want Windows 8 running and
1:06:38everything from your PC to your tablet
1:06:40so
1:06:40Windows 8 has a touch interface I guess
1:06:43that means they want you know del to
1:06:45sell 24 inch monitors with touch screens
1:06:47on them
1:06:48so that when people use Metro they can
1:06:50poke at their screen but this is sort of
1:06:53this is sort of the attitude that you
1:06:54know Scotty had when when he went up to
1:06:56me hello computer and you know he had to
1:06:59pick up the you know it oh it doesn't
1:07:01recognize your voice so he talks into
1:07:02the mo I guess I have to talk into the
1:07:04into the mouse and talks into the mouse
1:07:05and I'm what you don't talking about Oh
1:07:07keyboards how quaint
1:07:10yeah you remember this I do remember it
1:07:13cuz you're a Trekkie trekker no other
1:07:16reason I remember that is because I was
1:07:17from the generation as is before you
1:07:20because you were a PC guy first I was
1:07:22not a PC guy first let's get to this
1:07:23let's be clear about this my first
1:07:25computer was an apple - what was your
1:07:27first Macintosh my first Mac was a Mac
1:07:30se uh which I which I owned and had an
1:07:34in my er there are the original you
1:07:35didn't come that late you missed the you
1:07:38know 128 512 on the plus I used them I
1:07:40didn't own one okay anyway when I say my
1:07:43first Mac do you mean when I owned or
1:07:45when I used it when your own I'm al
1:07:47Cassie but back in those days when Apple
1:07:49was the underdog it was exciting for us
1:07:52Mac users whenever we saw an Apple
1:07:54product in pop culture because that was
1:07:57sort of indication for us that we
1:07:59weren't crazy everyone else was using
1:08:01you know do you have a computer and
1:08:02you'd have to say yeah but it's a Mac
1:08:03and they like all you can't play you
1:08:05know Auto duel until they poured it
1:08:06three years later and it's black and
1:08:08white and is horrible huh so you were
1:08:11like I'm not crazy for using this thing
1:08:13it actually is better and so when we saw
1:08:15Macintosh is like a nun moonlighting or
1:08:18in the background of a movie or in Star
1:08:20Trek it was exciting for us really yeah
1:08:21that's that's the computer that we'd
1:08:22like see we're not crazy it exists and
1:08:24other people have it and a being tons of
1:08:26Hollywood movies because Apple had this
1:08:28one guy I forget what his name is whose
1:08:30job it was to get sort of Apple product
1:08:33placement in popular culture so
1:08:34Macintosh osburgh disproportionately
1:08:36represented on television shows and
1:08:38movies and commercials uh in like I
1:08:42guess it was the late 80s early 90s and
1:08:44so that's why I remember that scene is
1:08:45it was exciting to see a Macintosh and
1:08:46I'm on a big movie screen and they start
1:08:48we know us your favorite that was one
1:08:51with the whales
1:08:51it was the unfortunate
1:08:53so on transparent aluminum how can you
1:08:55not like the whale one and people who
1:08:57are anti whale about Star Trek is too
1:08:59you know it's it's too important and
1:09:01culturally and well where's in space
1:09:04well hard sci-fi it was it's basically a
1:09:07comedy like it was a funny it was making
1:09:09fun of itself whose self parody and
1:09:11people say that's not a proper Star Trek
1:09:13movie I guess this is sacrilegious if
1:09:14someone made a Star Wars movie that had
1:09:16that comedy angle but at that point the
1:09:18Star Trek movie franchise had been so
1:09:20dumped upon with crap that it was a
1:09:24breath of fresh air to at least get a
1:09:25competent self-deprecating comedy
1:09:28involving the rapidly aging crew of the
1:09:30Star Trek there are there aspects of
1:09:32that but I think it was intended that
1:09:34the whales be taken seriously and that
1:09:36was the problem the whole thing was a
1:09:37comedy the whole thing you know I'm from
1:09:39Iowa I only work in outer space it was
1:09:41it was a funny it was a funny movie but
1:09:45the whales were one of the parts that
1:09:46were not meant to be funny so you know
1:09:48in in Star Trek the series they would
1:09:51have episodes that were kind of the the
1:09:53humor episodes and then there was a
1:09:55serious ones where you were battling for
1:09:56the future the yeah Federation or
1:09:58whatever what are the tribbles for
1:10:00example not meant to be taken to exactly
1:10:02this was a this is the triple equivalent
1:10:04movie is supposed to be silly yes I know
1:10:06they wanted you to be excited about the
1:10:07whales but I part with the whales and
1:10:10the earth being destroyed was serious
1:10:12the rest of it there were jokes
1:10:14surrounding it but that was that was
1:10:16tongue roll up your sleeves and get to
1:10:17work four o'clock in the morning courage
1:10:18let's look in the entire Canon of Star
1:10:21Trek movies and decide where that falls
1:10:22ranking wise and I would say it's
1:10:24solidly mid to upper pack hmm you may I
1:10:28think people who don't like it I don't
1:10:31dislike the movie I didn't say it's like
1:10:33the movie I'm just saying like the
1:10:35whales I didn't like the whales I didn't
1:10:37live if they had done something else
1:10:39whales in space I don't know I just
1:10:41didn't sit well with me at the time I
1:10:43think I was more forgiving since then
1:10:47I've soured on the movie a little bit Oh
1:10:51so getting back to I'm just glad to talk
1:10:52with you that Star Trek I'll take I'll
1:10:54take whatever I can get
1:10:56finally we're talking Star Trek on the
1:10:58show see how excited your listeners are
1:11:01about that so getting back to with every
1:11:03every screen having touch and like me
1:11:05saying that does that mean they want del
1:11:06to put touch in their big
1:11:07Desktop screen I guess those it trying
1:11:09to say that every screen is going to
1:11:11have it so they're going to say Dell you
1:11:12should do this because Windows 8 has a
1:11:13touch interface but that comes back to
1:11:15Apple's experimentation with this idea
1:11:18of like making a touchscreen iMac and
1:11:20stuff like that that it's uncomfortable
1:11:21to have your hand up for that period of
1:11:23time
1:11:23never mind the the insane OCD
1:11:29destroying concept of someone
1:11:31intentionally touching your screen you
1:11:33know there are two kinds of people where
1:11:34people who touch their screens and
1:11:35people who do not want anyone to ever
1:11:36touch this screen you can guess which
1:11:38one I am and so now if you had a desktop
1:11:40put aside the uncomfortableness of
1:11:42having your hand up and poking your
1:11:43screen if that's the way you have to use
1:11:45your computer you're intentionally
1:11:46putting fingerprints all over your
1:11:47screen now obviously we all get over
1:11:49with the iPad or iPads are just covered
1:11:51with finger spoo and somehow we somehow
1:11:54we survive like ah but I don't want to
1:11:59give up my nice fingerprint free screen
1:12:02and yes I do agree with Apple that I
1:12:04think conceptually it seems like it
1:12:07would be tiring to polka things on the
1:12:09screen like that but who knows I like
1:12:10Microsoft's all about having options and
1:12:13you know put the touchscreen on it if
1:12:14you never touch the screen fine but it's
1:12:15there if you need it obviously for
1:12:17tablets that make sense that opens all
1:12:19door to convertible type devices I did a
1:12:20Mac world article way back where I was
1:12:23talking about the idea of taking a
1:12:26macbook air and having you be able to
1:12:27either fold in on itself or fold
1:12:29backwards or a slide away or something
1:12:31like that where when you use it like a
1:12:32macbook air it works like a macbook air
1:12:34and as a trackpad and a keyboard in the
1:12:35hallway but if you fold the keyboard and
1:12:38trackpad portion out of the way somehow
1:12:39it behaves like a big really really fast
1:12:42ipad and I was saying would be x86 base
1:12:45because iOS apps already run on x86 they
1:12:47run on a simulator obviously it would
1:12:49need a touchscreen and you would only
1:12:51use the touchscreen when it's an iPad
1:12:54mode right then you would use the
1:12:56keyboard and trackpad any other moment
1:12:58it would be a touchscreen all the time
1:12:59so I'm assuming Windows vendors will
1:13:01make something like this like a PC
1:13:04ultrabook you know the MacBook Air type
1:13:06doing ultraedit
1:13:07it is also Windows 8 tablet and I'm sure
1:13:09there'll be 50 of these and they'll be
1:13:12able to collapse and fold with varying
1:13:13degrees of success in stuff like that
1:13:15and I said in the macro logical I didn't
1:13:17think Apple would do that because it's
1:13:18just too much too weird for Apple it's
1:13:19something the old Apple will do like the
1:13:20old Apple made
1:13:21doooo doc and the do-over you'd shove it
1:13:25was like a Mac but it had the guts
1:13:26missing you would fold up your your
1:13:28power book duo and shove it inside there
1:13:30and then you'd have a big full-fledged
1:13:31Mac lots of interesting things are
1:13:34technically possible with the Apple
1:13:35today would say just because we can do
1:13:36it I don't know if we should so I'm sure
1:13:38Apple experimented with this concept and
1:13:39is experimenting with this concept as
1:13:41but they experimented with touchscreen
1:13:42IMAX and all sorts of other things and
1:13:44thus far have decided they're not up to
1:13:46snuff PC vendors are not so constrained
1:13:48by the thought process I guess and
1:13:51they're not going to carefully consider
1:13:52whether it's a good idea to have a PC
1:13:56laptop that falls into a metro tablet
1:13:58they're just going to make them
1:13:59someone's going to make them because if
1:14:00they don't someone else will and they're
1:14:02losing the money that could have been
1:14:02made from the suckers who will buy this
1:14:03thing and whether it's a good idea or
1:14:05not the market will decide and so on so
1:14:08I'll be interesting to look at that but
1:14:09I mostly agree with Apple Inc concept
1:14:12that poking at your upright desktop
1:14:15computer screen is not a good idea I'm
1:14:17not going to be successful or
1:14:18comfortable but who knows we'll see some
1:14:25and we're going to short on time here
1:14:27and I still have like a screen fold of
1:14:28stuff to go mind if they do bonus bonus
1:14:30episode makes me want to do two episodes
1:14:34this week don't do one more pointer do
1:14:35you want to wrap it up stack it up I
1:14:38don't see one more point is this a 5min
1:14:41a point or 20-minute point oh you can
1:14:43say can you curtail it at about 10
1:14:45minutes I say well yeah I can fit it in
1:14:47right so one of the things that
1:14:50Microsoft said was during the developer
1:14:53station was if you want as an
1:14:55application developer you can target
1:14:57your app at just 11 inch tablets with
1:14:59sixteen by nine screens and then they
1:15:02followed it up with this is a direct
1:15:03quote but you're not going to get its
1:15:04rich again Margaux brought this up they
1:15:06the constantly telling people they're
1:15:08going to get rich just kind of classless
1:15:10I think but we get the point you know
1:15:13they're saying if you make an app they
1:15:15can only run on a very narrow portion of
1:15:18the possible world of Windows 8 devices
1:15:20like you can't run on PC you can't run
1:15:22on tange tablets can't run 7-inch
1:15:24tablets it can't run on 4 by 3 ratio
1:15:26tablets can only run on 11 and 16 by 9
1:15:28tablets you can do that but you're
1:15:31limiting yourself now the fact that
1:15:33they're letting you do that is like come
1:15:35on
1:15:35in fragmentation the water is fine right
1:15:37Apple doesn't like doing that Apple had
1:15:40to fragment they said iPad apps are
1:15:43different than iPhone apps and you can
1:15:44run iPhone apps on the iPad but they're
1:15:46ugly and that's a transitional thing and
1:15:47nobody should ever want to do it but we
1:15:50have to screen sides there's a small one
1:15:51and it's the big one
1:15:52and we have two resolutions the small
1:15:54and ignore that it's like if you do it
1:15:55on the small one you should make your
1:15:57thing Retina display and able because it
1:16:00make your app look better but if you
1:16:01don't it will still look ok and then you
1:16:02have the big screen they didn't say you
1:16:05know they're not encouraging people that
1:16:06and you could do this if you wanted like
1:16:08game developer to occasionally you can
1:16:10make your application only run on 32
1:16:12gigabyte iPhone 4
1:16:13we love that Apple is not inviting that
1:16:15and they're not telling you not to do it
1:16:16because you won't get as rich they're
1:16:18just not even opening that door no
1:16:19conceivably you could submit a game they
1:16:22can only run on the iPhone 4 and I bet
1:16:23there are games that can only run on ion
1:16:25devices but games are kind of a special
1:16:27case they don't want you to make your
1:16:28to-do list application only run on 30 Q
1:16:30gigabyte iPhone 4 right with a Retina
1:16:32Display Apple would probably reject that
1:16:34from the store and they would say yeah
1:16:35just because you can do this we don't we
1:16:36don't want to encourage that whereas
1:16:37Microsoft as an all things is going back
1:16:39to the old Microsoft and saying yeah you
1:16:42can target whatever you want just want
1:16:43to run tablets just want around this
1:16:44screen that screen you know whatever
1:16:46we of course want you to cover all sorts
1:16:49of devices but it's perfectly possible
1:16:51to do this other thing and I don't think
1:16:53Microsoft would reject an app that you
1:16:55did like they were just say I'll let the
1:16:56market decide you won't that guy won't
1:16:57get as rich and it'll be fine
1:17:00Microsoft did go through the thing about
1:17:02way so say you say you want a target
1:17:03huge range of devices and by the way the
1:17:05minimum screen resolution for Windows 8
1:17:07is 1024 by 768 so there's not going this
1:17:09is not you know they have Windows Phone
1:17:117 4 is interesting that they decided
1:17:14that was the point that was the cutoff
1:17:15point like well we can make one os scale
1:17:16from 7 inch tablets all the way up to 40
1:17:19inch desktop thing but we can't go down
1:17:23to 3 and average we need a whole other
1:17:25ass for that like so they didn't try to
1:17:26make Windows 8 scale the whole range
1:17:28like a Windows Phone 7 Series whatever
1:17:30then that cuts off then you start at
1:17:331024 by 768 which I guess you could fit
1:17:36on a 7-inch tablet or 6-inch ah it's a
1:17:38resolution limit not necessarily a size
1:17:39limit it's just up to the vendors to
1:17:41decide what size screen they want to
1:17:42make it that res but so they say like
1:17:45well how do I make my application span
1:17:47that range from 1024 by 768
1:17:49Desktop I want you to make three sets of
1:17:51assets to cover the range of size of
1:17:52this marriage Apple Apple asked for two
1:17:54sets of assets they asked for like a 1x
1:17:56size and a 2x size but it's a similar
1:17:57approach give us a you know we would
1:18:01like you to give us three sets of SS or
1:18:02as Microsoft said we would like you to
1:18:04use scalable graphics with SVG and Apple
1:18:06says you know PDFs where we can scale
1:18:08them you know so your Apple look good at
1:18:10all different it's using at all
1:18:12different resolutions and portrait and
1:18:16landscape is another aspect where they
1:18:20won't they want you to do landscape
1:18:21that's required the portrait is optional
1:18:23which is kind of is that I don't know if
1:18:25it's the opposite of the Apple thing
1:18:26Apple when you write an iOS application
1:18:28you can choose what you want to enable
1:18:29rotation what you want to happen on
1:18:31rotations and so on it's open but in the
1:18:35guidelines I believe and I think they
1:18:36might reject this is that your iPad app
1:18:38must work in both orientations I think
1:18:40you'd be tried to submit an app that
1:18:41didn't work in both orientations they
1:18:43would probably reject you I'm not sure
1:18:46if you have to support rotation like a
1:18:47whole different view in different age
1:18:49now this is a good question for market
1:18:50what should ask them in the next show
1:18:52what the current iOS rules are about
1:18:54rotation and orientation and how lenient
1:18:56Apple is about enforcing but the
1:18:58guidelines are for your iPad app it
1:19:00should work in both modes whereas
1:19:01Microsoft is saying landscape you have
1:19:03to do and portrait is optional which is
1:19:05kind of weird I don't think I've ever
1:19:07seen a iOS or iPad app that's like that
1:19:12the only thing I think of is maybe like
1:19:13a movie player can you can you rotate
1:19:16Netflix I don't know like I've tried
1:19:18recently I'm pretty sure you can
1:19:20playback I can imagine them you know you
1:19:22wouldn't want it in portrait but most
1:19:24apps I think the default on iPad is is
1:19:27portrait and that's that's the way they
1:19:30expected you to use the thing that you
1:19:32go into landscape you get this alternate
1:19:33mode maybe it's maybe it's just me
1:19:34applying my prejudice what do you think
1:19:36has it right I think landscape
1:19:41predominant can work the my Merriam
1:19:45rejection of Microsoft's thing is the
1:19:47idea that people are going to to hand
1:19:48grip it and use desktops but a it's a
1:19:51differentiator right maybe it will maybe
1:19:54it will breed a different class of
1:19:55applications making landscape the
1:19:58default
1:19:58maybe they'll look differently behave
1:19:59differently
1:20:01I don't know I'm trying the Netflix
1:20:03right now just to see what they I think
1:20:06it'll flip around 360 if you do it
1:20:08upside down but I don't know if it'll
1:20:09ever I'm gonna try it it's loading up
1:20:11Danny Phantom episode 49 and so this is
1:20:16on my iPhone because my iPad is being
1:20:18used it goes into landscape mode
1:20:23automatically and in portrait mode it
1:20:25shows its side leaf yeah so it doesn't
1:20:29doesn't rotate I mean as someone pointed
1:20:30on the chatroom games do that too like
1:20:32yeah obviously you don't you know what
1:20:34to make your game rotate you're gonna
1:20:35make your game screen unless you mention
1:20:37flipping it upside down does indeed
1:20:39cause it to go 360 you know only got
1:20:46like three more points left but they're
1:20:47not gonna fit in here so maybe it will
1:20:48do part of a follow-up show okay there
1:20:53you don't wanna do them you're done
1:20:54you're done yeah no but the next point
1:20:56is contracts and I think that's a long
1:20:57oh that could be a whole show right
1:21:00there no not all show I'll get through
1:21:04this window aid stuff yet I think it
1:21:07could be able show well if you want to
1:21:11follow Jon on on Twitter you can do that
1:21:14siracusa there's no z-s IRAC us a like
1:21:20the the town in in italy have you been
1:21:23there you've been to siracusa i have not
1:21:25but my grandparents did go there several
1:21:27times i believe how cool was that
1:21:29that whole place named a free and
1:21:31mentioned in The Godfather
1:21:33now they do say in The Godfather
1:21:35actually okay yeah yeah subtitled so you
1:21:38know it's my name with Isabel there
1:21:39anyway a couple a couple little little
1:21:43things you want to address we have
1:21:45mentioned here that we will be talking
1:21:48about Goodfellas the movie Goodfellas we
1:21:53received a lot of feedback about that
1:21:54things that we absolutely must do things
1:21:56we absolutely must not do in reference
1:22:00to that we are going to do that though
1:22:02we've been cleared to do that so we'll
1:22:04be having a show it will not it will not
1:22:05be an episode of hypercritical
1:22:07necessarily or or if it is it will be a
1:22:10bonus episode it will not replace the
1:22:12existing week's episode it will
1:22:16it will not be tacked on to the end of
1:22:18that week's episode it will be recorded
1:22:20on a different date and time and
1:22:21released as its own as its own thing did
1:22:25I say that right John yeah I don't think
1:22:28it's gonna be in the IP critical feet at
1:22:30all and not at all yeah and be its own
1:22:32thing maybe it'll be a special five by
1:22:34five movie show maybe it'll be something
1:22:36that we do with other hosts periodically
1:22:38who knows you can even make it on after
1:22:40dark for a language learn that doesn't
1:22:43fit in there because I don't really
1:22:44publish yeah you're right any couldn't
1:22:46publish but we could curse we could
1:22:47curse in this other one if we want if we
1:22:49make it a separate show recording from
1:22:51the movie you know yeah so we'll make it
1:22:52an explosive it explicit and will be a
1:22:54tone tone shine curse I've never heard
1:22:56you curse I think you I've never heard
1:22:59that so I can't wait that's reason
1:23:01enough to do a show sure so we'll do
1:23:04that so we are doing that so you can
1:23:06stay tuned we'll have update we will
1:23:07update here about that show that was the
1:23:10main update that I wanted to do I also
1:23:12wanted to to mention for those who who
1:23:15care about such things and and who get
1:23:18this show we have a very fast turnaround
1:23:19time with getting these shows out thanks
1:23:21very much to faith producer here for
1:23:24doing that but so if you if you happen
1:23:27listen to this today Friday earlier in
1:23:29the day perhaps on your commute home you
1:23:31should know that defringe comes back
1:23:33tonight season premiere of season 4 is
1:23:36back tonight you're gonna be watching
1:23:38that John let the DVR kickoff for about
1:23:4115-20 minutes in it play I'll probably
1:23:44yeah I'm personal course you will it's
1:23:46been too long your favorite and a tour
1:23:48of returns for season four the Fringe be
1:23:53talking about that next week for sure
1:23:54dedicate the whole show for that I think
1:23:56you don't think so okay but that's it
1:24:00you can go to find by five that TV and
1:24:02you know what people have been raiding
1:24:03the show thanks thanks very much for
1:24:05doing that some more ratings have come
1:24:06in John have you been following those
1:24:08reading a few people have I suggested
1:24:10last time that people click the helpful
1:24:11yes no links yes a lot of people not
1:24:13like yes yeah a lot of people have
1:24:15clicked my idea below was to try to
1:24:17introduce some churn so the top three
1:24:19reviews weren't still the top three
1:24:21right right but you just can't it's the
1:24:23it's a self-fulfilling prophecy people
1:24:25see them first and the reason they're at
1:24:27the top
1:24:28like nice reviews and well Ritz on and
1:24:30so forth and so as the people go through
1:24:32clicking the yes/no helpful they also
1:24:34click yes helpful in the top view so the
1:24:36order has not changed in the first page
1:24:37but I do appreciate the people are
1:24:39shuffling up from like the bottom of the
1:24:40power because people are out there
1:24:41writing good reviews yeah and they don't
1:24:43in it there's nothing they getting
1:24:44ignored so I thank everyone who is
1:24:46clicking those links either by pressing
1:24:48no not helpful to barring the ones that
1:24:49you don't like or pressing s to the ones
1:24:51you do like here's the thing if it's not
1:24:53a five-star review the appropriate
1:24:55action is to download it that's all I'm
1:24:56gonna say I'm I don't think that's an
1:24:58issue because anyone who's listening to
1:25:00the show and it's gonna go click on
1:25:00iTunes because of us is gonna do it
1:25:02because they like the show the reviews
1:25:03are overwhelmingly positive but if you
1:25:05like a negative one feel you know it's I
1:25:06disagree with you alright well dan says
1:25:09don't click the negative ones but I'm
1:25:10telling you to be true to yourself be
1:25:12true to yourself which by definition
1:25:15means down voting the negative ones
1:25:17alright alright that's it then John have
1:25:21a good week
1:25:22[Music]