The Incomparable

163: What If Galactus Was Made of Jello?


00:00:00   the uncomfortable is brought to you by [TS]

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00:00:10   slash I NC the incomparable number 163 [TS]

00:00:19   october2013 welcome back to the [TS]

00:00:24   uncomfortable i'm your host Jason Snell [TS]

00:00:25   and a little while ago we asked our [TS]

00:00:29   listeners to write itunes reviews they [TS]

00:00:32   didn't even have to be good when I [TS]

00:00:33   participating in some sort of fraud here [TS]

00:00:36   they could be any kind of itunes review [TS]

00:00:38   and randomly would select somebody from [TS]

00:00:41   the itunes reviewers and they would get [TS]

00:00:43   to pick the topic of an episode and we [TS]

00:00:46   indeed show somebody at random it was an [TS]

00:00:49   Australian fellow his name is Dave Gork [TS]

00:00:53   Roger and Dave picked he had actually [TS]

00:00:57   already recommended these books to us on [TS]

00:00:59   Twitter and mention the author's name [TS]

00:01:02   and then the author jumped in on twitter [TS]

00:01:03   and also recommended his books big [TS]

00:01:06   surprise and so this is what we did so [TS]

00:01:08   we read a series of books by John [TS]

00:01:12   birmingham the axis of time trilogy [TS]

00:01:15   weapons of choice is the first book in [TS]

00:01:17   the series [TS]

00:01:18   I believe some of us on this podcast [TS]

00:01:21   read more than that [TS]

00:01:22   so we're going to talk about that a [TS]

00:01:23   little bit hopefully keeping it spoiler [TS]

00:01:25   light enough i personally i don't [TS]

00:01:28   actually think there are a lot of things [TS]

00:01:29   that could spoil these these books it's [TS]

00:01:32   not really those are not those kind of [TS]

00:01:35   books where to go what nobody say what [TS]

00:01:36   happens to this person you know I i [TS]

00:01:39   don't i don't think you'd be spoiled so [TS]

00:01:41   we're gonna go try to go a little light [TS]

00:01:43   on the spoilers [TS]

00:01:44   we're also going to try to talk about [TS]

00:01:45   other books in this genre which is sort [TS]

00:01:48   of essentially all alt history so anyway [TS]

00:01:52   let me introduce now that i've [TS]

00:01:53   introduced our premise and I think Dave [TS]

00:01:55   who suggested this as our contest winner [TS]

00:01:58   let me introduce our panelists as always [TS]

00:02:01   for a book club you know when you love [TS]

00:02:03   them you've missed him because he hasn't [TS]

00:02:04   been on a little while it's scott [TS]

00:02:05   McNulty hi Scott [TS]

00:02:06   hello Jason it's good to be back other [TS]

00:02:08   than being our dungeon master we haven't [TS]

00:02:11   heard from you in a while it's true [TS]

00:02:13   on the the very popular Dungeons and [TS]

00:02:15   Dragons yes we're extremely popular if I [TS]

00:02:17   roll the details a d20 to find out how [TS]

00:02:20   popular they were and it was a critical [TS]

00:02:21   hit [TS]

00:02:22   oh I see what you did you become [TS]

00:02:25   inoculated yes also i was making a like [TS]

00:02:28   a editorial reviews joke there it's a [TS]

00:02:30   critical home the DMV lizards are [TS]

00:02:33   critical is what I've been missing [TS]

00:02:34   I know I know you have been missing it i [TS]

00:02:37   think the sadly I think the listeners [TS]

00:02:38   may have been missing this too so I that [TS]

00:02:41   laughter you heard there is the new dan [TS]

00:02:43   moore and he's also now on every podcast [TS]

00:02:45   it's david lower hi David [TS]

00:02:47   hello there welcome i'm gonna put that [TS]

00:02:49   on my business card now the nude and [TS]

00:02:51   nude and morgan and nobody goes to get [TS]

00:02:52   more it is but that's okay you can be [TS]

00:02:55   the new one bad of that thing [TS]

00:02:57   so okay John birmingham access of time I [TS]

00:03:00   read all three of these books because i [TS]

00:03:03   read the first one I thought oh you know [TS]

00:03:04   in the end i kinda wanna he want to see [TS]

00:03:07   where this goes goes next Scott did you [TS]

00:03:10   read all three i did read all three as i [TS]

00:03:13   thought why not why not one was quick [TS]

00:03:15   yeah exactly [TS]

00:03:16   quickened and it wasn't enough there [TS]

00:03:18   weren't enough Nazis in the first one [TS]

00:03:19   no but there was the promise not see but [TS]

00:03:22   but there was the promise of Nazis at [TS]

00:03:23   the end again we should probably even [TS]

00:03:25   below this spoiler here David how much [TS]

00:03:27   of weapons of choice did you read you [TS]

00:03:29   read the whole thing did you get through [TS]

00:03:30   most of it I got through most of it and [TS]

00:03:33   i can imagine reading the others in the [TS]

00:03:36   series you can imagine it [TS]

00:03:38   yeah sure yes it is very plausible in a [TS]

00:03:41   side sectional ok so we should probably [TS]

00:03:42   explain what what this what this series [TS]

00:03:45   is and again if you want to read these [TS]

00:03:47   books with with no spoilers whatsoever [TS]

00:03:51   you probably should steer away but I [TS]

00:03:53   feel like we could other than a faint [TS]

00:03:55   spoiler horn heard in the distance i [TS]

00:03:57   would like to not you know not not drive [TS]

00:04:00   people away because i think most people [TS]

00:04:01   probably have not even heard of these [TS]

00:04:03   books that our friend Dave recommended [TS]

00:04:05   to us but what i found interesting about [TS]

00:04:07   them is this is a this is a series that [TS]

00:04:12   is a combination of first off we should [TS]

00:04:15   say military fiction and sci-fi in the [TS]

00:04:20   sense that there it's set in the in the [TS]

00:04:22   future this future military us and [TS]

00:04:25   allied military so they've got to [TS]

00:04:26   ecology that doesn't exist currently and [TS]

00:04:28   then there's a lot of nuts and bolts I i [TS]

00:04:30   got almost tom clancy kind of vibe from [TS]

00:04:32   some of it there's a lot of dwelling on [TS]

00:04:34   sort of the details of the equipment and [TS]

00:04:37   of the battles in this that felt very [TS]

00:04:39   very tom clancy like to me [TS]

00:04:41   yeah correct we are we talked about this [TS]

00:04:45   yesterday [TS]

00:04:47   Oh on a totally different skype call [TS]

00:04:49   about how you know that the time Clancy [TS]

00:04:52   divided sort of like you want to be hot [TS]

00:04:53   hunt for red october and you don't want [TS]

00:04:54   to be red storm rising because red storm [TS]

00:04:57   rising as a thousand pages of lots of [TS]

00:04:59   military details and hunt from october [TS]

00:05:01   is like a really interesting story with [TS]

00:05:03   interesting people doing interesting [TS]

00:05:05   things and it's from rising not thousand [TS]

00:05:08   pages of not interesting [TS]

00:05:10   are you guys read any time planting [TS]

00:05:12   stuff [TS]

00:05:13   oh yes he said he said with that's the [TS]

00:05:18   time to get the answer which is [TS]

00:05:19   initially it was very exciting and then [TS]

00:05:20   later I was filled with regret [TS]

00:05:22   yeah yeah I mean I red red red october [TS]

00:05:25   when it came out from the Naval [TS]

00:05:26   Institute press yeah how early and I [TS]

00:05:28   read that and then started reading red [TS]

00:05:31   storm rising and when you [TS]

00:05:33   oh and this and i can bring the colonel [TS]

00:05:37   of the Kremlin was when i came back to [TS]

00:05:39   him and then i read a few more and then [TS]

00:05:41   I'd you know that it's sleek became you [TS]

00:05:44   know eventually he comes tom clancy [TS]

00:05:45   incorporated and it's sort of right [TS]

00:05:47   factory of books put out under the brand [TS]

00:05:49   name of Tom Clancy you know suddenly [TS]

00:05:50   have jet Jack Ryan is the head of the [TS]

00:05:52   CIA then suddenly he's the President and [TS]

00:05:55   eventually he'll become Pope and then [TS]

00:05:56   soon become like the Emperor flown over [TS]

00:05:58   relaxing eclectic Empire yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:06:01   yeah [TS]

00:06:02   Scott what about you I'd read that book [TS]

00:06:04   I ready for Red October yeah and i still [TS]

00:06:08   remember details about the engine of the [TS]

00:06:12   Russians so yes the castle that [TS]

00:06:13   invitation with the special yes oh yes [TS]

00:06:16   very exactly [TS]

00:06:18   yes the whisper cavitation drive of the [TS]

00:06:22   sacral october but that's the kind of [TS]

00:06:24   detail that people who read those kinds [TS]

00:06:26   of books one right so I guess we would [TS]

00:06:28   call this military science fiction in [TS]

00:06:30   some ways but although it strikes me as [TS]

00:06:32   being kind of not quite that and more [TS]

00:06:33   military and science fiction and not [TS]

00:06:35   like so much together the two [TS]

00:06:38   idea here is that the this war war fleet [TS]

00:06:41   in the Pacific Ocean or on the way the [TS]

00:06:44   Indian Ocean i guess is carrying with [TS]

00:06:47   them a ship that's got the scientists [TS]

00:06:49   egghead scientists up to no good and [TS]

00:06:52   they are trying to created a weapon that [TS]

00:06:55   will let them essentially teleport [TS]

00:06:56   weapons to their destinations instead of [TS]

00:06:59   having to you know shoot them at people [TS]

00:07:01   and as scientists sometimes do they [TS]

00:07:05   screw it up and the entire battle group [TS]

00:07:08   is sucked through a wormhole as happy as [TS]

00:07:11   so often happens and they emerged in the [TS]

00:07:15   early days of World War two where they [TS]

00:07:19   are plopped down in the vicinity direct [TS]

00:07:22   vicinity of an American battle group [TS]

00:07:24   that's about to go meet a japanese [TS]

00:07:27   attack on the Marshall Islands I think [TS]

00:07:30   midway midway midway I'm midway before [TS]

00:07:33   the Battle of Midway yeah I so we get [TS]

00:07:35   this so so what we originally think is [TS]

00:07:38   this sort of futuristic military stuff [TS]

00:07:42   is now intermixed with the the [TS]

00:07:44   historical military stuff and as with [TS]

00:07:47   superheroes who meet and don't know that [TS]

00:07:49   they're both super heroes there's a [TS]

00:07:50   fight [TS]

00:07:51   there's no saddle because they don't [TS]

00:07:53   know who the other one is the fog before [TS]

00:07:54   it's very confusing and so the super [TS]

00:07:57   21st century military of the 21-24 t20 [TS]

00:08:01   35 something like that [TS]

00:08:02   21-22 anyone else not that far well that [TS]

00:08:06   these books were written a while ago and [TS]

00:08:07   its attack is not coming in 2021 but [TS]

00:08:10   it's a night it's a nice thought they [TS]

00:08:13   have their throat back in time and they [TS]

00:08:15   they are demolishing large chunks of [TS]

00:08:17   this 1940 battle group because they've [TS]

00:08:21   got you know they got 80 years on them [TS]

00:08:22   75 years on them and that's and that's [TS]

00:08:26   the first i would say that's the first [TS]

00:08:28   like thirty percent using kindle terms [TS]

00:08:30   thirty percent of the book how many dots [TS]

00:08:32   that yeah it's lots of dots and and this [TS]

00:08:35   was something we were talking about the [TS]

00:08:37   morning because he tried to he tried to [TS]

00:08:39   read this and and was struggling with it [TS]

00:08:41   and I honestly I was struggling with the [TS]

00:08:43   beginning of this too because the [TS]

00:08:44   beginning of this book is not really my [TS]

00:08:45   cup of tea it is a lot of technical [TS]

00:08:46   detail about about ships and armaments [TS]

00:08:50   and then and then it becomes [TS]

00:08:52   like a what if a 21st century naval [TS]

00:08:55   battle group attacked a world war two [TS]

00:08:58   naval battle group how badly would they [TS]

00:09:00   destroy those chips and we see that and [TS]

00:09:03   I that stuff didn't that this stuff [TS]

00:09:06   didn't interest interest me at all it [TS]

00:09:08   was after the shooting stopped and the [TS]

00:09:10   people from these 70 years apart [TS]

00:09:13   cultures had to meet that the book [TS]

00:09:15   started to get interesting for me i'm [TS]

00:09:17   interested what you guys thought at the [TS]

00:09:18   beginning of the book when when we were [TS]

00:09:20   really talking more about technology [TS]

00:09:22   than we were talking about culture and [TS]

00:09:24   people [TS]

00:09:24   well that's the idea that's what took me [TS]

00:09:26   so long in the beginning was you know [TS]

00:09:28   going oh this is this isn't tom clancy [TS]

00:09:31   it's maybe Larry bond level of you know [TS]

00:09:35   not quite being Tom Clancy and it just [TS]

00:09:37   keeps going and going and going in there [TS]

00:09:40   are these names and all these things and [TS]

00:09:42   I mean certain things like naming a ship [TS]

00:09:44   the USS Hillary Clinton yes that's not [TS]

00:09:48   going to happen by 2021 and so things [TS]

00:09:50   like that would take me right out so [TS]

00:09:51   this book was written into the timeline [TS]

00:09:54   of this book hillary clinton was elected [TS]

00:09:56   president in 2008 and assassinated at at [TS]

00:10:01   a later time umm alright so it was [TS]

00:10:04   published in 2004 right [TS]

00:10:07   ok so yes it's like I said it's it's [TS]

00:10:10   diverged a little bit from our our world [TS]

00:10:12   already but you know you were you were [TS]

00:10:14   okay with the wormhole transporter them [TS]

00:10:16   back to nineteen forty-two but the USS [TS]

00:10:18   Hillary Clinton wait a second [TS]

00:10:20   yeah well because it's it's presented as [TS]

00:10:23   so you know here's here's this [TS]

00:10:25   absolutely realistic kind of thing that [TS]

00:10:27   we're trying to set up and I just I [TS]

00:10:30   couldn't get into that but but part of [TS]

00:10:32   it was just the over-reliance on the [TS]

00:10:34   technology as soon as it started dealing [TS]

00:10:36   with human beings dealing with one [TS]

00:10:38   another and getting interesting that was [TS]

00:10:40   like oh yeah okay um it's like you guys [TS]

00:10:43   remember the the whisper drive of the [TS]

00:10:45   Red October I the thing that stuck with [TS]

00:10:47   me was I only wanted to see Nebraska [TS]

00:10:50   oh yes you know it was the character [TS]

00:10:52   stuff as interesting as the also [TS]

00:10:56   responded with Montana which is much [TS]

00:10:58   more interesting man Brasel I have [TS]

00:11:00   always wanted to see Montana oh sam [TS]

00:11:03   neill spoiler alert for [TS]

00:11:05   200 for Red October by the way Sam Neill [TS]

00:11:08   doesn't make it but he would have liked [TS]

00:11:10   to have seen Montana well who wouldn't [TS]

00:11:13   like to see much [TS]

00:11:14   yeah no interest but yeah it'sit's once [TS]

00:11:16   once the book really started to focus on [TS]

00:11:19   the humans that was like okay and just [TS]

00:11:22   the differences but you know the culture [TS]

00:11:23   clash between the 21st century in the [TS]

00:11:25   1940s right and that's why I can see [TS]

00:11:30   wanting to continue in reading the rest [TS]

00:11:31   of them because i would hope there's [TS]

00:11:33   more of that and and the promise of [TS]

00:11:36   Nazis yes Scott did you you know did you [TS]

00:11:38   have that same reaction about the [TS]

00:11:39   technology and the battle stuff [TS]

00:11:44   well i-i've read a not an insignificant [TS]

00:11:46   amount of military science fiction which [TS]

00:11:49   is all about weapons systems exactly at [TS]

00:11:52   people shooting at each other and [TS]

00:11:54   legendary future weapons systems it's [TS]

00:11:56   true [TS]

00:11:57   usually it is a human's killing some [TS]

00:11:59   sort of alien in in many inventive ways [TS]

00:12:03   so I was kind of I knew it was familiar [TS]

00:12:06   to me and I've also know that people who [TS]

00:12:09   are you know obsessed with World War to [TS]

00:12:11   assess about the various armaments and [TS]

00:12:17   you know classifications of ships so he [TS]

00:12:19   had it both ways right he had future [TS]

00:12:20   stuff that he could talk about then he [TS]

00:12:22   has were actual world war two things and [TS]

00:12:25   some of the characters from the future [TS]

00:12:27   are obsessed with world war two [TS]

00:12:28   arguments which I thought was a nice [TS]

00:12:30   time and our building like have built [TS]

00:12:32   models of the ships that they're reading [TS]

00:12:34   in the Rye excited about it so I didn't [TS]

00:12:37   take me [TS]

00:12:37   I mean I read it very quickly and i did [TS]

00:12:40   not dislike it and I didn't have a [TS]

00:12:42   problem with the USS Hillary Clinton [TS]

00:12:43   because i like Hillary Clinton hello [TS]

00:12:46   anybody she's very clear as it goes [TS]

00:12:48   along that she was she was the president [TS]

00:12:50   in this scenario and his men women and [TS]

00:12:53   was wasn't homeless assassinated and so [TS]

00:12:56   they made her and bombed many countries [TS]

00:12:58   apparently too so they made her the it [TS]

00:13:01   happens [TS]

00:13:01   yeah yeah it was um also for a blue [TS]

00:13:04   Australian as well novelist but uh lots [TS]

00:13:08   of equal time for the Australians and [TS]

00:13:10   for the English and for the Americans [TS]

00:13:12   which I thought was interesting but yeah [TS]

00:13:14   but the part of this that thing that [TS]

00:13:16   makes this book and it's the thing that [TS]

00:13:17   works for me in a lot of science [TS]

00:13:19   action is then we meet the characters [TS]

00:13:21   and the characters again their military [TS]

00:13:24   people there are some of the measure [TS]

00:13:27   sort of interesting the the the Admiral [TS]

00:13:30   who's in charge of the future battle [TS]

00:13:32   group is is kind of an interesting guy [TS]

00:13:34   and they're the subcommander the British [TS]

00:13:35   subcommander whose of I think Pakistani [TS]

00:13:38   descent is an interesting character but [TS]

00:13:41   what's most interesting is actually did [TS]

00:13:43   the cultures I mean that that's really [TS]

00:13:44   the story this book is for these books [TS]

00:13:47   is the culture clash and I thought that [TS]

00:13:49   was by far the most interesting thing [TS]

00:13:51   and was really fascinating the idea what [TS]

00:13:54   it's really positing is how much our [TS]

00:13:58   societies you know a have changed in in [TS]

00:14:02   this time and yes sure into 10 or 15 [TS]

00:14:05   years into the future how end what would [TS]

00:14:08   really happen if somebody from nineteen [TS]

00:14:11   forty America or you know or England or [TS]

00:14:15   Australia ran into certain somebody with [TS]

00:14:17   the values and beliefs of of somebody [TS]

00:14:19   from the 21st century and we think of [TS]

00:14:22   those people as being are there are [TS]

00:14:23   ancestors and they're like us in there [TS]

00:14:25   they're on our side and they're from our [TS]

00:14:26   country but i thought this book was [TS]

00:14:29   really great great and unflinching about [TS]

00:14:32   the fact that it would be kind of rough [TS]

00:14:34   because there would be racism and sexism [TS]

00:14:38   and you know you name it we were talking [TS]

00:14:41   about an integrated both racially and by [TS]

00:14:44   gender military and the 21st century [TS]

00:14:46   it's a professional integrated military [TS]

00:14:49   and in world war two it's a segregated [TS]

00:14:52   men only military and all of the [TS]

00:14:55   ugliness of that collision is dealt with [TS]

00:14:58   in the story and I thought I thought it [TS]

00:15:00   was really nice and thought-provoking [TS]

00:15:02   and challenging to say you know this is [TS]

00:15:04   not going to be one of those hey it's us [TS]

00:15:06   from the past high five [TS]

00:15:09   instead it's like oh crap uh why do you [TS]

00:15:12   have [TS]

00:15:13   why do you have black people and women [TS]

00:15:14   on your ships you people are awful [TS]

00:15:16   obviously the future is a terrible place [TS]

00:15:18   and the people from the from the 21st [TS]

00:15:20   century like who are these idiots these [TS]

00:15:22   racist idiots these are the guys who [TS]

00:15:25   saved the world and they both you know [TS]

00:15:27   and it's not one-sided because you [TS]

00:15:29   there's also this you know that the [TS]

00:15:32   the there's some questions that this [TS]

00:15:33   world war two people raised about the [TS]

00:15:36   about our culture and after decades of [TS]

00:15:39   war on terror and all of that [TS]

00:15:41   what is identity great our culture so I [TS]

00:15:43   thought that was really the best part [TS]

00:15:45   yeah and I thought it was interesting [TS]

00:15:45   that he made the the task force from the [TS]

00:15:49   future is a multinational task for right [TS]

00:15:51   so they have ships from Japan and [TS]

00:15:54   soldiers from Germany on the the boats [TS]

00:15:57   which could cause some trouble with use [TS]

00:16:00   keyboard back to nineteen forty-two [TS]

00:16:01   could be could be some some trouble [TS]

00:16:04   there [TS]

00:16:04   yes they're not as popular no mia with [TS]

00:16:07   the Allies at that time [TS]

00:16:09   no no but the culture clash I don't have [TS]

00:16:11   you guys thought I mean I I it was [TS]

00:16:13   it'sit's there's some really ugly things [TS]

00:16:16   that happen and up to and including a [TS]

00:16:19   murderer of a Japanese soldier or [TS]

00:16:22   japanese scientists sailor guy and a and [TS]

00:16:25   a black i think a gay black woman who is [TS]

00:16:28   a in charge of a ship and they're [TS]

00:16:30   murdered horribly but also there's just [TS]

00:16:32   a lot of really kind of unpleasant back [TS]

00:16:34   and forth in the and the the black and [TS]

00:16:37   and and women characters especially get [TS]

00:16:40   a lot of abuse and I you know I again I [TS]

00:16:45   just I thought it was it was great to [TS]

00:16:47   see that portrayed that way because it [TS]

00:16:49   was so unflinching about how society is [TS]

00:16:52   as has changed in the intervening time [TS]

00:16:56   oh yeah i mean that that was definitely [TS]

00:16:57   the most interesting thing to me just [TS]

00:16:59   because it's also something we haven't [TS]

00:17:01   seen before in this kind of a story I [TS]

00:17:03   mean yeah you've got traveling back in [TS]

00:17:05   time you've got alternate history but [TS]

00:17:08   you know I mean maybe what's what's the [TS]

00:17:13   joke in the city on the edge of forever [TS]

00:17:14   when spots hat comes off and someone [TS]

00:17:19   sees his ears know he he's asian indica [TS]

00:17:22   my friends obviously Chinese he got [TS]

00:17:24   caught his ears got caught in a race [TS]

00:17:26   picking machine it's like okay well yeah [TS]

00:17:30   but you know that's Captain Kirk saying [TS]

00:17:32   hey we're in the nineteen thirties [TS]

00:17:33   everybody's horribly racist here I could [TS]

00:17:36   just use horribly racist things and [TS]

00:17:38   it'll totally getting off scot-free [TS]

00:17:39   scot-free being also racist about the [TS]

00:17:42   people from Scotland but Scotty's not [TS]

00:17:44   here so he doesn't care [TS]

00:17:45   so let's just be racist and nobody will [TS]

00:17:47   notice that's that's what get backers [TS]

00:17:49   think that was his plan [TS]

00:17:50   yeah in the star trek in that Star Trek [TS]

00:17:52   future they stamped out racism but [TS]

00:17:55   sexism they still had some trouble with [TS]

00:17:57   spices [TS]

00:17:57   yes well you know it wasn't one of the [TS]

00:18:00   time exactly right i was just a two out [TS]

00:18:03   of three isn't bad but I don't know what [TS]

00:18:04   the second one was but anyway money [TS]

00:18:08   yeah sure bunny we stamped out money [TS]

00:18:11   sure sure i don't so i thought it was [TS]

00:18:14   interesting how so [TS]

00:18:16   the the 1942 contemporary people the a [TS]

00:18:19   lot is obviously hate the Germans and [TS]

00:18:22   the the Japanese the Japanese think that [TS]

00:18:25   everyone is inferior to them [TS]

00:18:27   the Germans obviously think that you [TS]

00:18:29   know painting in broad strokes here [TS]

00:18:31   the Germans think everyone is its [TS]

00:18:33   inferior to them the future people kind [TS]

00:18:36   of are taking well these 1942 people are [TS]

00:18:38   kinda tense [TS]

00:18:39   yeah everybody is kind of thinking I'm [TS]

00:18:41   the best and everyone should just [TS]

00:18:43   obviously fall in line with me and the [TS]

00:18:45   rest get out of the way there's a lot of [TS]

00:18:47   tension between all of that you have the [TS]

00:18:49   world war two people attempts i guess [TS]

00:18:52   they end up calling for contemporary [TS]

00:18:53   suppose that the 21 the 21st the we [TS]

00:19:00   think about this this these books also [TS]

00:19:02   something about how we think about [TS]

00:19:03   history right i mean that's one of the [TS]

00:19:05   things that all history does you think [TS]

00:19:07   about history and how it would be [TS]

00:19:08   different but also you know we flattened [TS]

00:19:11   world war two to be there were the [TS]

00:19:12   Allies they were good they were all for [TS]

00:19:15   you know goodness over the axis who were [TS]

00:19:18   you know again the the not season and [TS]

00:19:22   taking Jews and and gays and and and [TS]

00:19:26   killing them all that they are the bad [TS]

00:19:28   guys right except that that's what the [TS]

00:19:30   21st century people have to face when [TS]

00:19:32   they go back in time is oh these people [TS]

00:19:34   are horribly racist too huh [TS]

00:19:36   they're just less bad than those guys [TS]

00:19:38   who are really bad and then also one of [TS]

00:19:41   the things is fascinating is is there [TS]

00:19:43   are several examples where there are [TS]

00:19:45   facts that are known and and in the [TS]

00:19:47   early days of the incursion into in it [TS]

00:19:50   back in time they they're like ok [TS]

00:19:52   they're these horrible horrible things [TS]

00:19:53   happening there's the the Bataan Death [TS]

00:19:55   March is happening right there these [TS]

00:19:56   awful treatments of civilian prisoners [TS]

00:19:58   of war [TS]

00:19:59   and meanwhile the Holocaust is going on [TS]

00:20:00   and people from the 21st century like [TS]

00:20:02   you need to do something to stop this [TS]

00:20:05   and you know in hindsight with history [TS]

00:20:08   we can be like well you know that they [TS]

00:20:09   had to fight a war and they didn't know [TS]

00:20:11   what was going on but what this book [TS]

00:20:12   says is if you told them what was going [TS]

00:20:13   on they would still be like sorry we're [TS]

00:20:16   not gonna do anything about that we need [TS]

00:20:19   to fight the war not rescue civilians [TS]

00:20:22   and so that there's that whole conflict [TS]

00:20:24   that i thought was really fast today [TS]

00:20:25   we're like you should do something about [TS]

00:20:26   this and Churchill and Roosevelt and the [TS]

00:20:29   like are like yeah now we got out there [TS]

00:20:32   we got bigger fish to fry [TS]

00:20:33   Anjali it's really yeah we'll get to it [TS]

00:20:35   then sort itself out [TS]

00:20:37   I thought that was really interesting [TS]

00:20:38   bedridden and then so the the 21st [TS]

00:20:41   century people come from a very [TS]

00:20:42   different time with it you know [TS]

00:20:43   terrorism and I don't know if this [TS]

00:20:45   really comes up in the first book but [TS]

00:20:46   they have very different tactics then [TS]

00:20:48   the contemporary people do which becomes [TS]

00:20:51   very clear in later books when they're [TS]

00:20:53   doing their they're addressing certain [TS]

00:20:55   atrocities with them and vigor and so [TS]

00:21:00   the valley and people are kind of [TS]

00:21:02   thinking what are returning we're [TS]

00:21:04   turning into the the kind of savagery [TS]

00:21:07   that we're fighting right there's this [TS]

00:21:09   there's this um that's what definitely a [TS]

00:21:11   commentary in the in the book is is what [TS]

00:21:13   that that's where we turn the tables is [TS]

00:21:15   the easy comparison is boy we've come a [TS]

00:21:18   long way since back then and then it [TS]

00:21:20   flips around and you see from the eyes [TS]

00:21:23   like there's the one character who's the [TS]

00:21:24   contemporary guy who falls in love with [TS]

00:21:27   the woman who's the new york times [TS]

00:21:28   reporter from the 21st century and he [TS]

00:21:32   you know we see through his eyes the [TS]

00:21:34   contemporaries are kind of horrified [TS]

00:21:36   with the you know how kind of like crew [TS]

00:21:39   dandruff culture is and how there's much [TS]

00:21:41   less it seems like almost horror they're [TS]

00:21:44   like so jaded about about about war and [TS]

00:21:48   about acts of violence and uh seeing it [TS]

00:21:52   from that perspective is really [TS]

00:21:53   interesting because it's also [TS]

00:21:54   challenging what we're becoming and yeah [TS]

00:21:57   they they talk about how the the [TS]

00:21:59   Japanese soldiers who were crashing [TS]

00:22:01   their planes and all these things are [TS]

00:22:03   are these horrible dishonorable evil [TS]

00:22:05   things and yet you know they've been [TS]

00:22:07   fighting a war on terror for 20 years [TS]

00:22:09   and [TS]

00:22:10   there you know prepared to commit sort [TS]

00:22:13   of like Battlefield atrocities because [TS]

00:22:15   they've got a particular code that says [TS]

00:22:17   it you know these guys are guilty of [TS]

00:22:19   this you just kill him just so summarily [TS]

00:22:21   execute them on the battlefield which is [TS]

00:22:23   not appropriate [TS]

00:22:25   yeah great I i love it when when science [TS]

00:22:30   fiction especially can do that make you [TS]

00:22:31   and turn the tables like that we're all [TS]

00:22:33   of a sudden there was some moment I [TS]

00:22:34   think it was with the with the guy who [TS]

00:22:36   is dating the woman from the new york [TS]

00:22:37   times where i was suddenly was like oh [TS]

00:22:39   geez [TS]

00:22:40   because i had seen I so starting to see [TS]

00:22:42   them through his eyes and and what would [TS]

00:22:44   be the horror of somebody from nineteen [TS]

00:22:46   forty seeing these people think this is [TS]

00:22:47   what we save the world for is these [TS]

00:22:49   people [TS]

00:22:50   yeah true and that's what I think raises [TS]

00:22:52   this series he's a capable writer but i [TS]

00:22:57   think that his is playing with this [TS]

00:23:00   culture and kind of turning you know [TS]

00:23:02   making people think about our own [TS]

00:23:05   culture in a different way and [TS]

00:23:06   re-examining the past makes it kind of [TS]

00:23:10   rises it above kind of everyday all [TS]

00:23:14   history crap every day every alternate [TS]

00:23:17   day everywhere all right de-evolve [TS]

00:23:20   history [TS]

00:23:21   alright let's take a brief break move [TS]

00:23:24   through dimensions from parallel [TS]

00:23:26   universe back into our real universe so [TS]

00:23:28   i can tell you about our sponsor its [TS]

00:23:31   tonks if you're somebody who is [TS]

00:23:33   enthusiastic about sci-fi or fantasy or [TS]

00:23:37   books or movies or TV or any of the sort [TS]

00:23:39   of things we cover on the incomparable I [TS]

00:23:41   have a question for you which is are you [TS]

00:23:43   enthusiastic about coffee there are a [TS]

00:23:45   lot of people who are very enthusiastic [TS]

00:23:47   about coffee just like they're [TS]

00:23:49   enthusiastic about the things we talked [TS]

00:23:50   about here [TS]

00:23:51   tonks is a subscription service for [TS]

00:23:55   coffee [TS]

00:23:56   they have great beans that they find [TS]

00:23:58   they roast the coffee themselves in Los [TS]

00:24:01   Angeles and then they ship out the [TS]

00:24:03   coffee the next day within 24 hours it [TS]

00:24:05   gets shipped out fresh roasted coffee [TS]

00:24:07   tastes much better than the steel coffee [TS]

00:24:09   you're going to find in grocery stores [TS]

00:24:10   or cafes they ship it to you and then [TS]

00:24:13   two weeks later they should be some more [TS]

00:24:15   so your coffee is always fresh and [TS]

00:24:17   they're doing the roasting themselves [TS]

00:24:19   and its source from all over the world [TS]

00:24:21   is really interesting [TS]

00:24:22   and it talks goes even beyond that they [TS]

00:24:24   have an editor-in-chief they have a [TS]

00:24:26   magazine called the frequency which is [TS]

00:24:29   done by email it's got a lot of fun [TS]

00:24:30   coffee related stuff in it [TS]

00:24:32   members get it for free and if you like [TS]

00:24:35   coffee it's worth a try and you can get [TS]

00:24:37   a free trial if you go to this URL talks [TS]

00:24:41   that's T 0 and x dot org slash I n see [TS]

00:24:46   the first three letters of the [TS]

00:24:48   incomparable I NC so tonks dot org slash [TS]

00:24:51   I NC and you get a free trial you'll get [TS]

00:24:54   a free two-ounce bag of coffee in the [TS]

00:24:56   mail you can try it out and decide if [TS]

00:24:58   it's something that you like and if so [TS]

00:25:00   you can sign up for one of the [TS]

00:25:01   subscriptions and they've got smaller [TS]

00:25:02   bags and bigger bags and they come to [TS]

00:25:04   you every couple of weeks so it's a [TS]

00:25:06   really cool idea using the internet and [TS]

00:25:08   people who really know coffee to come up [TS]

00:25:10   with this very cool subscription service [TS]

00:25:12   this they ship to the US and canada and [TS]

00:25:15   that URL again [TS]

00:25:16   tonks t 0 and x dot org slash I NC if [TS]

00:25:21   you like coffee if you're enthusiastic [TS]

00:25:24   about coffee [TS]

00:25:25   you owe it to yourself to give this a [TS]

00:25:27   try and see if you might want to convert [TS]

00:25:30   from being somebody who has those old [TS]

00:25:32   beans stuck away somewhere in your house [TS]

00:25:34   to fresh roasted beans every two weeks [TS]

00:25:37   in your mailbox talks talks dot org [TS]

00:25:40   slash I NC and thank you to talk for [TS]

00:25:43   sponsoring the incomparable so the time [TS]

00:25:46   travel aspect of this I also really [TS]

00:25:47   liked because the way he handled so many [TS]

00:25:49   time travel stories we see especially [TS]

00:25:51   movies or TV shows are about its the [TS]

00:25:54   back to the future model right it's like [TS]

00:25:56   oh I'm back in time I need to make sure [TS]

00:25:57   that I don't step on any butterflies or [TS]

00:25:59   whatever and then get because I gotta [TS]

00:26:02   get back to my home time and I the the [TS]

00:26:06   rules of this of the of these books are [TS]

00:26:09   pretty straightforward and again it [TS]

00:26:11   seems ridiculous to say this is how time [TS]

00:26:13   travel would actually work but I feel [TS]

00:26:14   like this is how time travel would [TS]

00:26:16   actually work which is they go through [TS]

00:26:18   this wormhole and essentially they're [TS]

00:26:20   creating a parallel universe by uh by [TS]

00:26:24   changing the course of history by their [TS]

00:26:26   presence and everybody accepts pretty [TS]

00:26:29   quickly the fact that they're never [TS]

00:26:32   going to get back especially since the [TS]

00:26:34   the ship that had the [TS]

00:26:35   technology and it was destroyed they're [TS]

00:26:38   never going to get back there here [TS]

00:26:39   forever [TS]

00:26:40   there's no way home and from the moment [TS]

00:26:43   that they arrive [TS]

00:26:45   history is irrevocably changed and every [TS]

00:26:49   minute that passes after their arrival [TS]

00:26:52   that what they know for sure about [TS]

00:26:54   what's going on in this world is a is [TS]

00:26:58   fading away and is diverging because [TS]

00:27:00   their presence has changed the course of [TS]

00:27:02   the future and i like that that this [TS]

00:27:05   book embraces that and says no no this [TS]

00:27:07   is there's no good there's not gonna be [TS]

00:27:09   any shenanigans of like we're going back [TS]

00:27:11   to the future [TS]

00:27:12   we're not gonna have a you know sort of [TS]

00:27:16   cheats about what we know everything [TS]

00:27:17   that's going to happen so we can fix [TS]

00:27:18   everything [TS]

00:27:19   in fact it makes it more complicated [TS]

00:27:20   because Hitler and everybody in the [TS]

00:27:24   Japanese command they get access to [TS]

00:27:26   these feature histories and say oh well [TS]

00:27:28   I'm not going to do that and everything [TS]

00:27:30   changes which is great it's true and [TS]

00:27:33   that's I thought was interesting when [TS]

00:27:34   they first come they realize that fairly [TS]

00:27:36   quickly the the people from the 21st [TS]

00:27:38   century they're like okay we need to [TS]

00:27:39   really act on this information right now [TS]

00:27:42   because we have a small window in which [TS]

00:27:44   our records are exactly right so let's [TS]

00:27:46   make some decisions right now and change [TS]

00:27:48   some stuff [TS]

00:27:49   yeah they've got their web cache or [TS]

00:27:50   whatever of some basic information you [TS]

00:27:54   know they've got they've got a bunch of [TS]

00:27:55   information for the 21st century and a [TS]

00:27:57   trip down to the weather there's a [TS]

00:27:58   really nice moment where the I think [TS]

00:28:00   it's in the first book where they [TS]

00:28:01   noticed that the weather is not what [TS]

00:28:03   they're recorded weather was in there [TS]

00:28:04   like you know that it's coming [TS]

00:28:06   we've done so much to change things now [TS]

00:28:08   that not even the weather is the same as [TS]

00:28:10   we thought it would be like a we're [TS]

00:28:12   completely off the track and then I mean [TS]

00:28:14   first book ends I without it's not a [TS]

00:28:17   major spoiler the first book ends with [TS]

00:28:19   the Axis powers essentially realizing [TS]

00:28:21   that they need to make some changes in [TS]

00:28:23   what their strategy is based on because [TS]

00:28:25   they know they're going to lose right i [TS]

00:28:26   mean the the you know Hitler knows that [TS]

00:28:29   he's gonna commit suicide in a bunker [TS]

00:28:31   and and Japan High Command knows they're [TS]

00:28:34   gonna have two of their cities nuked and [TS]

00:28:38   even the the Allies even the Soviets [TS]

00:28:41   know that the Soviet Union is going to [TS]

00:28:43   fall and Stalin isn't gonna like that [TS]

00:28:45   very much and so everybody is sort of [TS]

00:28:47   rethinking their strategy [TS]

00:28:48   which leads to you no more divergence [TS]

00:28:51   and we in [TS]

00:28:53   meanwhile i guess for the fans of the [TS]

00:28:54   military tech stuff [TS]

00:28:57   everybody's like hey those are pretty [TS]

00:28:58   cool tools you've got there maybe we [TS]

00:29:00   could knock the rock goes off so you [TS]

00:29:02   know there's that too a lot of stuff [TS]

00:29:04   going on but I like that we're not [TS]

00:29:06   taking time to worry about going back to [TS]

00:29:09   you know back to the 21st century [TS]

00:29:11   it's never going to happen and everybody [TS]

00:29:14   kind of accepts that that that they're [TS]

00:29:16   not going to go down that path it's [TS]

00:29:18   never gonna happen they're stuck in this [TS]

00:29:19   parallel universe Einstein appears at [TS]

00:29:22   one point basically talks to talk to the [TS]

00:29:24   the Admiral and and says you know that [TS]

00:29:27   world is very close to us but but you'll [TS]

00:29:29   never get there because it's in a [TS]

00:29:30   parallel universe Thank You ensign the [TS]

00:29:33   Einstein Kenya then they ran into Spock [TS]

00:29:36   prime and you know it is it it's a very [TS]

00:29:41   soon we think about it [TS]

00:29:42   yeah both things are very clever ways of [TS]

00:29:46   taking of creating a parallel universe [TS]

00:29:47   without negating the other universe the [TS]

00:29:51   previous one right you know like the [TS]

00:29:53   movies could have just completely [TS]

00:29:54   negated the entire next generation and [TS]

00:29:57   all that but they didn't they found a [TS]

00:29:58   way around that and still did a reboot [TS]

00:30:00   and that's one of the things i like here [TS]

00:30:02   too is that I I i love that the focus [TS]

00:30:06   isn't on let's get back or let's not [TS]

00:30:08   change anything it's it's let's see what [TS]

00:30:10   would happen if you have this dropped in [TS]

00:30:12   here and now if this puzzle pieces [TS]

00:30:15   shifted what would this too and then [TS]

00:30:16   what would this doing over this too and [TS]

00:30:18   it's that sort of domino effect of all [TS]

00:30:19   of these things that have changed so [TS]

00:30:23   again that's the I am I reading the next [TS]

00:30:26   two books is very plausible because i [TS]

00:30:28   want to see where that goes [TS]

00:30:29   yeah even the you know even the legal [TS]

00:30:33   issues that come up for fascinating it's [TS]

00:30:35   like who who owns this technology who [TS]

00:30:37   owns the patents on this stuff [TS]

00:30:40   what about 21st century laws who's in [TS]

00:30:42   that what's the chain of command these [TS]

00:30:43   American ships are from the america of [TS]

00:30:46   the 21st century so you know they who [TS]

00:30:49   have a report to where their loyalties [TS]

00:30:51   lie do they want to run the world the [TS]

00:30:55   21st century people do they want to just [TS]

00:30:57   take orders from from macarthur and [TS]

00:31:00   from President Roosevelt who a boob also [TS]

00:31:04   they use some advanced medical scanning [TS]

00:31:06   equipment to put off his his death to [TS]

00:31:09   extend his life a little bit which I [TS]

00:31:10   also really like like things like that [TS]

00:31:12   do we do [TS]

00:31:14   what about intellectual property i think [TS]

00:31:15   in the second book there's this whole [TS]

00:31:17   question of like all the movies and [TS]

00:31:19   music that were created in the [TS]

00:31:20   intervening 75 years are now available [TS]

00:31:22   so what does that do to you know [TS]

00:31:26   presumably those stars like you know now [TS]

00:31:30   that they find Elvis is a little boy [TS]

00:31:32   inside into a contract which actually [TS]

00:31:33   happens in one of the future books it's [TS]

00:31:35   just a little throwaway kind of thing [TS]

00:31:37   but there's all of that too it's like [TS]

00:31:38   what happens to this culture where there [TS]

00:31:42   you know it's not just that these these [TS]

00:31:44   people have been dropped in 75 years in [TS]

00:31:46   the past it's like literally all music [TS]

00:31:47   and art and all books and all movies for [TS]

00:31:51   the next 75 years have just been dropped [TS]

00:31:52   on this side society which I would [TS]

00:31:54   imagine would cause a huge upheaval and [TS]

00:31:57   culture that we we don't see a lot of [TS]

00:31:59   mostly because the world at war and so [TS]

00:32:01   everybody's kind of distracted but you [TS]

00:32:03   get the hint that there are references [TS]

00:32:04   to people from contemporary time [TS]

00:32:07   listening to ac/dc and stuff like that [TS]

00:32:09   and it's just like wow [TS]

00:32:11   everything is really messed up now well [TS]

00:32:12   which I but it's fun and I enjoyed that [TS]

00:32:15   that it was trying to play through all [TS]

00:32:17   the ramifications of this clash of [TS]

00:32:19   cultures and and it's not all just sort [TS]

00:32:22   of like wouldn't it be cool if it's like [TS]

00:32:23   well maybe not because and then try to [TS]

00:32:27   get all of that while still having the [TS]

00:32:28   storyline I really nice through [TS]

00:32:30   storyline which is war two [TS]

00:32:32   who with with with where everybody has [TS]

00:32:35   for knowledge and some people have [TS]

00:32:37   advanced weaponry that's running out but [TS]

00:32:40   they've got it [TS]

00:32:40   another detail that I like along those [TS]

00:32:43   lines they were talking about one of the [TS]

00:32:44   books one of the characters made like an [TS]

00:32:47   offhand comment about their salary and [TS]

00:32:49   how like a captain on the the in the [TS]

00:32:53   ship makes more money than the president [TS]

00:32:54   does in this current time right and so [TS]

00:32:57   they had to figure out how to pay these [TS]

00:32:58   people and what do they just get with [TS]

00:33:00   their salary should be or is it to have [TS]

00:33:02   to adjust for inflation or deflation [TS]

00:33:04   expose right right all while counting [TS]

00:33:07   how many magic drones and bullets and [TS]

00:33:09   missiles they've got left before they [TS]

00:33:11   run out and I kept thinking about that [TS]

00:33:12   it's like they're all big [TS]

00:33:14   their iPads and this book was written [TS]

00:33:15   before the ipad but they're called flexi [TS]

00:33:17   pads so they're almost iPads and I kept [TS]

00:33:20   thinking you keep using that thing going [TS]

00:33:22   to drain the battery and you can get a [TS]

00:33:23   replacement battery pretty soon it's [TS]

00:33:25   going to be hooked up to the AC power [TS]

00:33:26   all the time he did he did mention that [TS]

00:33:29   the battery recharges itself by the heat [TS]

00:33:32   of holding it in motion yeah it's magic [TS]

00:33:34   attack it'll last for a while just work [TS]

00:33:36   but I like that too that you you're [TS]

00:33:39   gonna end up with these I I think [TS]

00:33:41   there's some scenes where they're like [TS]

00:33:42   taking planes from the aircraft carrier [TS]

00:33:45   and and rather than flying they're [TS]

00:33:47   taking them and disassembling them so [TS]

00:33:49   they can like document but how they work [TS]

00:33:52   because you're going to end up with [TS]

00:33:54   these are the these are the only things [TS]

00:33:56   that they can use to try and bootstrap [TS]

00:33:57   better technology coming out of you know [TS]

00:34:01   1940 because they've got these examples [TS]

00:34:03   but I'll in a lot of cases the the [TS]

00:34:06   supply chain isn't there it's really [TS]

00:34:08   lucky if you have an iphone still exists [TS]

00:34:10   right if you have an iPhone and you go [TS]

00:34:12   back in time to 1945 you can't even if [TS]

00:34:15   you bring your charger with you if you [TS]

00:34:17   were smart enough to carry your charger [TS]

00:34:18   in your pocket in case you fell through [TS]

00:34:19   a wormhole and ended up in 1948 could [TS]

00:34:22   happen which I did they couldn't make an [TS]

00:34:25   iphone in 1940 because they don't have [TS]

00:34:27   any of the materials to make the [TS]

00:34:29   factories to make it I you know none of [TS]

00:34:31   that is possible and they run into that [TS]

00:34:34   here too which I thought was a nice [TS]

00:34:35   touch that it's not easily replicable [TS]

00:34:38   stuff it's that it's that old thing [TS]

00:34:39   about how you know if the world's if [TS]

00:34:41   there was an apocalypse we couldn't all [TS]

00:34:43   just sort of like remake our technology [TS]

00:34:45   from here today because we would have [TS]

00:34:47   two week we you know it's all [TS]

00:34:49   bootstrapped on all these other things [TS]

00:34:50   that are would be gone so I like that I [TS]

00:34:53   like that aspect of it to that there [TS]

00:34:54   that there you know they can't make more [TS]

00:34:57   of their whatever crazy fusion bombs [TS]

00:35:00   because they don't have they can't it'll [TS]

00:35:03   take 30 years for them knowing knowing [TS]

00:35:05   the answer they'll still take 30 years [TS]

00:35:07   to figure out how to get how to make [TS]

00:35:09   them that i would like to the the [TS]

00:35:11   contempt of the contemporary military [TS]

00:35:12   people like they have obviously they [TS]

00:35:15   have all the records of world war two so [TS]

00:35:17   they're like well if you just do a few [TS]

00:35:18   things to improve your tanks it'll be [TS]

00:35:20   much better for you and the military's [TS]

00:35:22   like well I don't know if we trust you [TS]

00:35:23   and [TS]

00:35:23   changes even though this is actually [TS]

00:35:26   happened and you are the others the [TS]

00:35:28   complacency issue where the Americans [TS]

00:35:30   should like hey we're going to win or as [TS]

00:35:32   the axis is like oh crap we need to [TS]

00:35:33   change everything because we're gonna [TS]

00:35:35   lose and so that that's an interesting [TS]

00:35:37   dynamic to of it [TS]

00:35:38   the Germans and the Japanese are much [TS]

00:35:40   more inclined to change their tactics [TS]

00:35:42   and the Americans are a little more [TS]

00:35:44   skeptical about it in fact i think one [TS]

00:35:46   of the big motivators for the Americans [TS]

00:35:48   change their tactics is that is that the [TS]

00:35:50   the 21st century battlegroup destroys a [TS]

00:35:52   huge amount of the u.s. Navy and the [TS]

00:35:55   pacific and so they sort of have to [TS]

00:35:57   adapt because oops we blow up your Navy [TS]

00:36:01   sorry did those you broke your little [TS]

00:36:04   ships [TS]

00:36:04   yeah we didn't know with you anyway I i [TS]

00:36:07   enjoyed reading them i was i was kind of [TS]

00:36:09   carried on after after that first time [TS]

00:36:11   by the first thirty percent or so where [TS]

00:36:12   where was slow going because it was so [TS]

00:36:14   much about that battle and I kept saying [TS]

00:36:16   you know show me the characters you know [TS]

00:36:18   get anymore I'm much more interested in [TS]

00:36:20   the incursion and what this what effect [TS]

00:36:22   this has on the world than I am about a [TS]

00:36:24   bunch of ships fighting once once that [TS]

00:36:27   happened I really kind of got swept [TS]

00:36:29   along and really enjoyed seeing all [TS]

00:36:30   these crazy permutations of the ripples [TS]

00:36:33   of this one event and how they impact [TS]

00:36:35   you know the culture and then and then [TS]

00:36:39   after that you know like you said Scott [TS]

00:36:40   it's a it's a fast enjoyable read after [TS]

00:36:43   you get through the nuts and bolts that [TS]

00:36:45   just doesn't work for me that that [TS]

00:36:47   military nuts-and-bolts think the second [TS]

00:36:48   and third books as a whole are much more [TS]

00:36:50   interesting because he kind of lets go [TS]

00:36:52   of all the technology and listing [TS]

00:36:54   weapons systems in jail and just kind of [TS]

00:36:56   plays with the cultural impact and and [TS]

00:36:59   what would happen if people had access [TS]

00:37:02   to this history and how it diverges and [TS]

00:37:03   then the pop-culture stuff he just kind [TS]

00:37:05   of plays around with a rare and serious [TS]

00:37:07   diversions divergence at that point to [TS]

00:37:09   where you guys you know I war war being [TS]

00:37:12   waged in Australia and it and alternate [TS]

00:37:16   d-day happening and questions about what [TS]

00:37:19   the Japanese plan of attack and the [TS]

00:37:21   Pacific is going to be and and attacking [TS]

00:37:24   Hawaii directly and all sorts of [TS]

00:37:26   interesting things that didn't happen in [TS]

00:37:28   our our version of war two so he gets to [TS]

00:37:31   finally play on that after all the setup [TS]

00:37:33   so yeah basically it's three books but [TS]

00:37:36   you gotta get through that [TS]

00:37:37   initial setup to get to the point where [TS]

00:37:39   it really starts paying off that after [TS]

00:37:40   that I i enjoy that I you know I i die i [TS]

00:37:43   think our deal with dave was that we [TS]

00:37:45   only have to read the first one but you [TS]

00:37:46   and I both went and bought the next two [TS]

00:37:48   and and read them all so I think that's [TS]

00:37:50   I think that's a bit of an endorsement [TS]

00:37:52   yeah it turns out I'm not the first one [TS]

00:37:54   in 2009 so high [TS]

00:37:57   read it but I haven't well done well [TS]

00:38:00   done you knew I new days gonna record [TS]

00:38:03   dave was whispering in your ear even [TS]

00:38:05   then a multinational task force so I [TS]

00:38:08   came back to 2000 that's right and I [TS]

00:38:11   look at the semester podcast in the [TS]

00:38:13   future that's for this podcast is [TS]

00:38:15   nothing like that podcast because they [TS]

00:38:17   radically change the timeline [TS]

00:38:20   it's true yeah so I were all speaking [TS]

00:38:22   German yeah yeah yeah I'm not going to [TS]

00:38:28   Switzerland if I try to go by German [TS]

00:38:30   accent will come out French accent haha [TS]

00:38:33   alright time to take another break for [TS]

00:38:36   our second sponsor and it's another [TS]

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00:39:26   on over to hostgator.com that's h OS [TS]

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00:39:36   code smell sent me 10s any ll that's me [TS]

00:39:41   Sen t me10 smell sent me ten the days of [TS]

00:39:46   dan sent me over now Snell sent me to [TS]

00:39:49   end this air you get 30 [TS]

00:39:50   percent off everything at hostgator.com [TS]

00:39:52   when you use the code smell sent me 10 [TS]

00:39:55   and thank you very much the good people [TS]

00:39:57   at hostgator for once again sponsoring [TS]

00:39:59   the incomparable so i was reminded that [TS]

00:40:02   we should talk a little bit about other [TS]

00:40:03   old history that we have known because [TS]

00:40:06   there's a lot of it out there especially [TS]

00:40:08   in books the the book that came to mind [TS]

00:40:11   for me while I was reading this for lots [TS]

00:40:12   of obvious reasons is the Proteas [TS]

00:40:14   operation which is by James P open which [TS]

00:40:17   is a very clever book it is also a you [TS]

00:40:20   know it's there's a lot of fascination [TS]

00:40:23   with world war two he was obviously a [TS]

00:40:24   world war two puffs and a military [TS]

00:40:28   strategy but what I really like about it [TS]

00:40:31   is that it it is it flips the kind of [TS]

00:40:36   time travel tropes on its head in that [TS]

00:40:38   that that's a book where we started in [TS]

00:40:41   1973 and the world is at war us is the [TS]

00:40:48   last surviving democracy under President [TS]

00:40:52   I think Joe Kennedy and uh and Hitler [TS]

00:40:59   has won the war and the Germans the [TS]

00:41:01   Japanese are all kind of like gradually [TS]

00:41:03   spreading out over the world and so in a [TS]

00:41:05   last-ditch effort to save the world they [TS]

00:41:07   build a time machine and send a crack [TS]

00:41:10   team of people back to World War to try [TS]

00:41:12   and change the course of history and so [TS]

00:41:14   what you get is our time travelers from [TS]

00:41:17   this dystopian you know future of 1973 [TS]

00:41:20   are trying to change the past to be [TS]

00:41:23   better and what they're doing is they're [TS]

00:41:25   changing it to be our history and i love [TS]

00:41:29   that I love that as a premise that it [TS]

00:41:31   what ends up happening is what happened [TS]

00:41:33   and so it's the time travel book where [TS]

00:41:36   they're screwing with history to make [TS]

00:41:37   what we know as our history which I [TS]

00:41:40   thought was a lot of fun so that that's [TS]

00:41:42   the one that I was thinking of as i was [TS]

00:41:43   reading bees is this this alter history [TS]

00:41:46   where we start in the old world and then [TS]

00:41:49   we're our history is the old history [TS]

00:41:51   which I thought was a lot of fun i'm not [TS]

00:41:52   sure if you guys have good all history [TS]

00:41:54   examples that you wanted to you want to [TS]

00:41:56   bring up [TS]

00:41:57   oh sure I mean [TS]

00:41:58   the man in the high castle by Philip [TS]

00:42:01   dick wish that I mean it's just kinda [TS]

00:42:05   nuts my my brother push that on me years [TS]

00:42:08   and years ago and said here you like [TS]

00:42:10   this because at the time i was reading [TS]

00:42:12   fatherland by oh yeah oh is it Robert [TS]

00:42:16   Harris robert harris yeah yeah and [TS]

00:42:20   that's it set in the sixties after a [TS]

00:42:23   successful German victory in World War [TS]

00:42:28   two and it's it's just everyday life in [TS]

00:42:31   the aging Hitler's Germany and our hero [TS]

00:42:36   solve a murder and there's no I mean it [TS]

00:42:38   is pure all history there's no time [TS]

00:42:41   travel there's no sense that oh this is [TS]

00:42:42   wrong this is just here's what it would [TS]

00:42:45   be like in the sixties which is [TS]

00:42:48   wonderful [TS]

00:42:49   there's would not the book is wonderful [TS]

00:42:51   i mean i love you outcome but I mean I [TS]

00:42:55   mean to bug the novel be Jim if it and [TS]

00:42:59   then there's there's a book that we had [TS]

00:43:01   on the Shelf that my mother got at some [TS]

00:43:05   point it's originally a German novel in [TS]

00:43:09   English it's called the Royal project [TS]

00:43:11   and it's about the Vatican trying to [TS]

00:43:15   restore the House of Stuart to the [TS]

00:43:18   English throne by using a time machine [TS]

00:43:21   invented by Leonardo da Vinci haha which [TS]

00:43:24   is nuts but it's a really interesting [TS]

00:43:27   book and she just got a sheep she liked [TS]

00:43:31   to collect Vatican thrillers and sci-fi [TS]

00:43:33   novels and there's a ridiculous number [TS]

00:43:36   of action thrillers out there who knew [TS]

00:43:38   but I mean I was just just fun because [TS]

00:43:42   it's it's got that whole weird time [TS]

00:43:44   travel thing going on and I was going to [TS]

00:43:46   say the produce operation watch watchmen [TS]

00:43:49   watch venture and get a really [TS]

00:43:52   interesting all history to it and all [TS]

00:43:54   the Nixon stuff [TS]

00:43:55   yes Nixon still still still in office in [TS]

00:43:59   the eighties but RR is going to run for [TS]

00:44:02   president and it turns out that's Robert [TS]

00:44:04   Redford not Ronald Reagan its watching [TS]

00:44:07   the comic Scott comic books funny books [TS]

00:44:10   oh yeah [TS]

00:44:12   and then the Difference Engine by [TS]

00:44:15   william gibson I am bruce sterling which [TS]

00:44:18   is it what modern computers a hundred [TS]

00:44:21   years early [TS]

00:44:22   yeah can we say is that like the steam [TS]

00:44:25   punk ish is that like origin of [TS]

00:44:28   steampunk starts before it got all [TS]

00:44:29   ironic with hats and Zeppelin's oh yeah [TS]

00:44:32   I they as i recall they clearly wrote it [TS]

00:44:37   with that in mind is my least favorite [TS]

00:44:40   thing William Gibson has participated [TS]

00:44:42   creatively and in and yes actually I [TS]

00:44:45   like mr. like william gibson and the [TS]

00:44:48   Difference Engine just didn't float my [TS]

00:44:49   boat I I didn't like that knew that much [TS]

00:44:51   it i remember enjoying it but I remember [TS]

00:44:55   nothing about it so Scott what about you [TS]

00:44:57   you have any favorite all histories that [TS]

00:45:00   you cannot remember David Stoll almost [TS]

00:45:03   all my answers are cheating [TS]

00:45:06   I think he's turning off your papers [TS]

00:45:08   made my castle was a good one [TS]

00:45:09   yes well i was going to a series that we [TS]

00:45:12   discussed on previous episodes of Joe [TS]

00:45:16   Walton small change theory right far [TS]

00:45:18   thing a penny in half-a-crown all very [TS]

00:45:21   good alternate history alternate history [TS]

00:45:24   with the with mr. Hitler being [TS]

00:45:27   ambulatory at the end of the war [TS]

00:45:30   yes going to optimism right making [TS]

00:45:33   trouble house [TS]

00:45:34   yeah so those are good other mirage by [TS]

00:45:37   Matt rough as its kind of all history [TS]

00:45:42   that kind of is the kind of falls apart [TS]

00:45:47   at the end but it's a alright so it's [TS]

00:45:51   like instead of uh you know of america [TS]

00:45:54   on 911 getting attacked by Middle [TS]

00:45:57   Eastern terrorists the twin towers are [TS]

00:46:00   in the middle east and they are attacked [TS]

00:46:02   by american terrorists and so it kind of [TS]

00:46:05   flips that around and does a whole bunch [TS]

00:46:07   of stuff with that is interesting that [TS]

00:46:09   that that book I i haven't read but its [TS]

00:46:12   tricks it reminds me of the book Osama [TS]

00:46:14   that i did read by la vie [TS]

00:46:17   teat are I don't know how to pronounce [TS]

00:46:19   it [TS]

00:46:20   that authors name but and that that's [TS]

00:46:23   the idea of the it's the pulp [TS]

00:46:25   it's a series of pulp novels about a guy [TS]

00:46:27   named Osama bin Laden and he the this [TS]

00:46:32   guy is trying to find the minute it [TS]

00:46:33   similarly kind of bizarre alternate view [TS]

00:46:38   of of of 911 very strange strange books [TS]

00:46:43   in the phone book that i have purchased [TS]

00:46:45   but i have not read huh by Norman [TS]

00:46:48   Spinrad called the iron dream I don't [TS]

00:46:51   know if anyone is ready Norman Spinrad [TS]

00:46:52   but he is a scriptwriter putting well [TS]

00:46:56   he's dead now but he's also kind of it's [TS]

00:46:59   completely crazy and so the premise of [TS]

00:47:02   this story is that Adolf Hitler [TS]

00:47:04   emigrated to America before world war [TS]

00:47:07   one and then he wrote a science fiction [TS]

00:47:09   novel about basically Nazi dream huh [TS]

00:47:15   and i bought it because it has the [TS]

00:47:16   craziest cover i have ever seen in a [TS]

00:47:19   used bookstore with like this this [TS]

00:47:21   motorcyclist on a motorcycle and the [TS]

00:47:25   tires are all their trademarks are all [TS]

00:47:28   swastika and so I said well I mean it's [TS]

00:47:33   a dollar i need to cut here of the hero [TS]

00:47:35   the doomsday machine an excellent 'star [TS]

00:47:37   trek episode once you've been read [TS]

00:47:39   yes well he's not dead I take it back [TS]

00:47:42   sorry comments but if you're looking [TS]

00:47:43   good [TS]

00:47:43   I've got jealous i thought you were dead [TS]

00:47:46   or not he's a lot of using born in [TS]

00:47:48   nineteen forties only 73 he's a young is [TS]

00:47:50   young fellow try to give you right after [TS]

00:47:53   you right now he's writing something yes [TS]

00:47:55   about about trademarks swastika in them [TS]

00:47:58   I was going to bring up the yiddish [TS]

00:47:59   policemen's union [TS]

00:48:01   oh yeah which is another all but I'll [TS]

00:48:03   history by michael chabon about again [TS]

00:48:07   it's coming out of World War two it's [TS]

00:48:08   the instead of forming Israel they put [TS]

00:48:12   the jewish refugees in Alaska and and [TS]

00:48:16   then it said at the time when the Jewish [TS]

00:48:19   refugee zone is going to expire and [TS]

00:48:23   there's tension internationally because [TS]

00:48:26   the all the refugees are being repaired [TS]

00:48:28   the US doesn't really want them so [TS]

00:48:29   they're being repatriated and there is a [TS]

00:48:32   in all history for world [TS]

00:48:33   two in general the tented at and and [TS]

00:48:37   then there's a murder mystery and [TS]

00:48:39   there's also some fascinating sort of [TS]

00:48:40   Jewish mysticism stuff too but i like [TS]

00:48:44   that because it's this bizarre setting [TS]

00:48:47   that I who would have thought that you'd [TS]

00:48:49   have the jewish state in Alaska and have [TS]

00:48:52   those things all mashed up together but [TS]

00:48:54   Michael trip on he's the one who thought [TS]

00:48:57   it up [TS]

00:48:57   there's also connie willis and her just [TS]

00:49:02   to say nothing of the dog the domesday [TS]

00:49:05   book and then blackout and all those [TS]

00:49:07   those are time travel but they don't [TS]

00:49:09   seem to interfere with time they did [TS]

00:49:11   there's no nothing alternate about the [TS]

00:49:13   past they go into right that when the [TS]

00:49:16   first to their historians and they are [TS]

00:49:18   trying to not screw up the past in black [TS]

00:49:21   and all clear they do kind of get [TS]

00:49:23   screwed up and have to you know it and I [TS]

00:49:28   think some of the characters wind up [TS]

00:49:29   having to accept living in the past [TS]

00:49:31   there right stuck that they're stuck to [TS]

00:49:33   their second they're stuck in our time [TS]

00:49:35   though they're not stuck in like it [TS]

00:49:36   already much altered pretty much yeah I [TS]

00:49:38   right yeah i think i can I tend to think [TS]

00:49:40   of all history's as being separate than [TS]

00:49:43   time-travel they may have they may [TS]

00:49:44   involve time travel but it's always [TS]

00:49:46   route usually in all history some [TS]

00:49:49   critical key moment in history is [TS]

00:49:52   slightly different it's like the Marvel [TS]

00:49:53   what if common right what if they're [TS]

00:49:55   like this was made of jello and then so [TS]

00:49:59   they would eat himself me and was it so [TS]

00:50:03   they don't hire rewrite this one I [TS]

00:50:06   remember years ago when I was going [TS]

00:50:07   through a Robert Heinlein kick and [TS]

00:50:10   getting more and more frustrated as I [TS]

00:50:12   went along cuz i started with like [TS]

00:50:14   lesser Heinlein and i think it is it's [TS]

00:50:18   like one of his last novels to to sail [TS]

00:50:21   beyond the sunset where you get [TS]

00:50:24   something like seven eighths of the way [TS]

00:50:26   through the book and then all of a [TS]

00:50:27   sudden it's about you know there's this [TS]

00:50:29   just random mention of oh and then [TS]

00:50:32   Abraham Lincoln died in 1893 or [TS]

00:50:34   something like that and you realize that [TS]

00:50:36   you've been in an alternate history the [TS]

00:50:38   halftime and I remember getting died it [TS]

00:50:41   just pissed me off like son [TS]

00:50:43   funded through the book across the river [TS]

00:50:45   so yeah I'm kind of a huge headline fan [TS]

00:50:50   but anyway long story short I see you're [TS]

00:50:53   right Scott there's this intersection of [TS]

00:50:55   of time travel and all history and [TS]

00:50:59   parallel you know the whole parallel [TS]

00:51:01   universe thing to where were the old [TS]

00:51:03   history is a parallel universe [TS]

00:51:05   so Robert Sawyer's Neanderthal books uh [TS]

00:51:10   I'm reminded of because there's a a [TS]

00:51:12   person from our world travels into a [TS]

00:51:15   parallel world well I uh what is that [TS]

00:51:18   Neanderthal from a world where the [TS]

00:51:20   animals evolved and became dominant and [TS]

00:51:22   humans died out travels accidentally to [TS]

00:51:25   our world and then likewise than human [TS]

00:51:30   travels to their world and that's sort [TS]

00:51:32   of an old history but it's a you know of [TS]

00:51:35   history of hundred thousand years ago [TS]

00:51:37   guess but those were those are pretty [TS]

00:51:40   interesting and you know harry [TS]

00:51:42   turtledove has made the entire career [TS]

00:51:45   writing books about various all [TS]

00:51:47   history's guns of the South right where [TS]

00:51:50   we're southern nerves don't know South [TS]

00:51:55   Africans apartheid South Africans travel [TS]

00:51:58   back in time and ship in machine guns to [TS]

00:52:01   the Confederacy so that racism can win [TS]

00:52:03   the day actual actual store at actual [TS]

00:52:10   story i think that was Turtledove yeah [TS]

00:52:12   oh yeah that's against a I've got any of [TS]

00:52:15   his books but i have read about the plot [TS]

00:52:17   kinds of the south yea i've i've read a [TS]

00:52:21   little bit of his stuff he wrote here at [TS]

00:52:24   understanding he wrote a great short [TS]

00:52:25   story that I like a lot of hindsight [TS]

00:52:27   that was an analog magazine that was [TS]

00:52:29   about science fiction writers and [TS]

00:52:33   editors and and science fiction writer [TS]

00:52:36   discovers this the story that he had [TS]

00:52:38   outlined but Sir filed as alright it [TS]

00:52:40   later and that full story is published [TS]

00:52:43   in a magazine under somebody else's name [TS]

00:52:46   and he thinks is this aliens and mind [TS]

00:52:48   control and all that and it turns out [TS]

00:52:49   it's a woman from 30 years in the future [TS]

00:52:52   who's gone back in time and and one of [TS]

00:52:54   the things she does to make a living [TS]

00:52:55   his cell classic short stories and [TS]

00:52:58   novels of the future in the past [TS]

00:53:00   including some that are are not fiction [TS]

00:53:02   but in the past they're considered [TS]

00:53:04   science fiction what Watergate that's a [TS]

00:53:07   real story that's one of the lines that [TS]

00:53:09   I like a lot and again it plays without [TS]

00:53:11   that idea that are you know our our our [TS]

00:53:14   presence seemed from the past would seem [TS]

00:53:17   ridiculous and science fictional not [TS]

00:53:19   quite all history but it's harry [TS]

00:53:21   turtledove close enough anything in [TS]

00:53:24   return of rights under a pen name or not [TS]

00:53:26   it's close enough history music he lives [TS]

00:53:29   in an alternate world I think he does [TS]

00:53:32   when there's a play by a twitter friend [TS]

00:53:35   of mine a playwright whose you might you [TS]

00:53:38   might see reviews of his plays at [TS]

00:53:40   io9.com which blew my mind the first [TS]

00:53:42   time I called up the page and went wait [TS]

00:53:44   a minute I know those people that's [TS]

00:53:45   weird [TS]

00:53:46   and his name is Mack Rogers me and he he [TS]

00:53:50   writes a lot of science fiction theatre [TS]

00:53:52   which is cool and he has one play called [TS]

00:53:54   Universal robots which is a playoff of [TS]

00:53:57   the pub Rossum's Universal resins [TS]

00:54:00   Universal robots and and the stories [TS]

00:54:02   about what if the robots had gotten out [TS]

00:54:05   of control and took over Czechoslovakia [TS]

00:54:07   before we were too and it deserves again [TS]

00:54:11   spins off what would happen if you had [TS]

00:54:14   this sort of robotic country in the [TS]

00:54:19   middle of World War two and it's a lot [TS]

00:54:21   of fun [TS]

00:54:21   alright should we move on to the musical [TS]

00:54:25   question that everybody's not asking we [TS]

00:54:27   accept me which is what are you reading [TS]

00:54:30   I'd like to ask and Scott you have been [TS]

00:54:32   on in so long you probably read like [TS]

00:54:34   15,000 books but you know let's let's [TS]

00:54:38   I'm interested in what interesting [TS]

00:54:41   things that you've been reading lately [TS]

00:54:42   and well I've been reading these three [TS]

00:54:45   books about this task for well yes those [TS]

00:54:49   remember the same really obviously i [TS]

00:54:52   will this month i've read a couple of [TS]

00:54:55   books in addition to that I've read the [TS]

00:54:56   thousand names which is so apparently [TS]

00:55:00   there's no a sub-genre of fantasy that [TS]

00:55:03   is called [TS]

00:55:05   of flintlock magic or something like [TS]

00:55:07   that so basically it's the idea that [TS]

00:55:09   it's a fantasy book people have muskets [TS]

00:55:12   and there's magic so this is a sub-genre [TS]

00:55:15   now and the thousand names by the django [TS]

00:55:20   Wexler I guess his name's is the first [TS]

00:55:24   in a trilogy of books about there's this [TS]

00:55:28   one reminds me of another offer that I [TS]

00:55:30   like a lot i've mentioned before [TS]

00:55:31   KJ parker a very different but very [TS]

00:55:34   similar as well that it's about this [TS]

00:55:36   military force that goes into this [TS]

00:55:37   country in there you don't you're not [TS]

00:55:39   quite sure why they're going in there [TS]

00:55:41   they're looking for the thousand names [TS]

00:55:43   which I won't say what they are and [TS]

00:55:44   they're in insurgents that are attacking [TS]

00:55:47   them and you think will is their magic [TS]

00:55:49   there may not be magic it might just be [TS]

00:55:50   coincidences turns out spoiler there's [TS]

00:55:53   magic uh-huh [TS]

00:55:55   yes and rifles so there you go that's [TS]

00:55:57   the twist [TS]

00:55:58   I've read another book called Lowton [TS]

00:56:01   based on a recommendation by an author [TS]

00:56:05   mike cole who writes military science [TS]

00:56:07   fiction on me on twitter he said [TS]

00:56:10   everyone should read Lowton I was like [TS]

00:56:12   alright i'll read it and I did [TS]

00:56:14   it's kind of a how to describe it's a [TS]

00:56:20   detective story basically in this kind [TS]

00:56:24   of like fantasy you are where this is [TS]

00:56:28   down on his luck guy is going around [TS]

00:56:32   trying to figure out something and [TS]

00:56:35   that's all I will say it's really good [TS]

00:56:36   though it's better than that [TS]

00:56:37   very brief and pour some hot licks a guy [TS]

00:56:40   is trying to figure things out and find [TS]

00:56:42   me up [TS]

00:56:43   you've never read a book like this by [TS]

00:56:45   Daniel polanski is his name [TS]

00:56:49   so check that out and the thousand names [TS]

00:56:52   was good as well the thousand names is [TS]

00:56:53   like 800 pages long and if you aren't [TS]

00:56:57   really into a lot of military talk you [TS]

00:56:59   might not want and you want more magic [TS]

00:57:02   in your fantasy because the magic [TS]

00:57:03   happens like maybe Paige 700 there's a [TS]

00:57:06   little magic in it but you might not [TS]

00:57:08   want to get into that all right David [TS]

00:57:11   water [TS]

00:57:12   what are you reading well I got to right [TS]

00:57:15   now I'm reading a graphic novel so the [TS]

00:57:19   next few seconds for Scott will just be [TS]

00:57:21   like white noise this book i'm not quite [TS]

00:57:24   sure but it's it's a book called Templer [TS]

00:57:29   by Jordan mekin her Beckner i think is [TS]

00:57:33   that the guy who did prince of persia [TS]

00:57:34   exactly that's a video game [TS]

00:57:37   what is going on I all I i have no idea [TS]

00:57:41   i saw in the library and went what's the [TS]

00:57:43   over what are you reading you've chosen [TS]

00:57:44   a graphic novel written by a guy who [TS]

00:57:46   doesn't video game [TS]

00:57:47   how did you get on this podcast if I'm [TS]

00:57:51   gonna do a book that's like a cookbook [TS]

00:57:54   why celebrity not even a celebrity chef [TS]

00:57:57   a cookbook is a political pundit just [TS]

00:58:00   because it's random unos going to be [TS]

00:58:02   sure didn't even finish the book we were [TS]

00:58:05   talking about [TS]

00:58:06   I didn't even look at the names on the [TS]

00:58:08   recovery just open it up and what's this [TS]

00:58:10   and and so that so that it was described [TS]

00:58:13   as sort of a blend of name of the rose [TS]

00:58:15   and oceans 11 and i just walked right to [TS]

00:58:18   the desk like I'm taking this at-bat and [TS]

00:58:22   when I got home was like oh wait a [TS]

00:58:23   minute video game guy huh so it's pretty [TS]

00:58:27   cool and I've got the lies of locke [TS]

00:58:31   lamora oh yes a little interesting here [TS]

00:58:34   which I haven't I haven't started i have [TS]

00:58:37   probably either one of you could [TS]

00:58:39   describe it better than I can [TS]

00:58:40   and partly Scott's one of the people who [TS]

00:58:43   said oh yes you should read that damn [TS]

00:58:45   Lauren bought that book for me he gifted [TS]

00:58:47   it to me and it's 99 cents read it [TS]

00:58:50   that's right that's your table is one of [TS]

00:58:52   the other ones yeah oh yes you will like [TS]

00:58:54   this second one not as good hopefully [TS]

00:58:56   the third one will be very good we're [TS]

00:58:58   just coming over soon but I realize lock [TS]

00:59:01   Morris one of the ones that I'm uh I'm [TS]

00:59:04   i'm reading that right now and it's [TS]

00:59:06   interesting i'm still trying to figure [TS]

00:59:08   out exactly what's going on [TS]

00:59:10   yeah okay because there's that there's [TS]

00:59:12   that there's a prologue that is like a [TS]

00:59:15   whole book it's a very long prologue and [TS]

00:59:19   then it and then you've you get to the [TS]

00:59:21   end of that you're thinking [TS]

00:59:22   whoo boy what will happen next in [TS]

00:59:24   chapter 2 and you flip the page and it [TS]

00:59:26   says chapter one and you say what I was [TS]

00:59:28   still reading the prologue but that's [TS]

00:59:32   just how it is with that book and then [TS]

00:59:34   there's it's all thieves and they're [TS]

00:59:35   stealing things from its thieves and [TS]

00:59:37   then other people who were thieves and [TS]

00:59:39   then like everybody's a thief in this in [TS]

00:59:42   this saves all the way to its thieves [TS]

00:59:44   it's all thieves so I've got that i'm [TS]

00:59:47   reading that now I i finished reading [TS]

00:59:49   another recommendation another dan moore [TS]

00:59:53   and recommendation actually midnight [TS]

00:59:54   riot or rivers of London if you prefer [TS]

00:59:57   by been around a bitch [TS]

00:59:59   we [TS]

00:59:59   we [TS]

01:00:00   just an urban fantasy about a reminded [TS]

01:00:04   me a lot of the rook in some ways [TS]

01:00:07   because it's it's a sort of supernatural [TS]

01:00:10   cop in London so it had a little little [TS]

01:00:15   echo of the brook which we recommended [TS]

01:00:16   on a previous show which is a great book [TS]

01:00:18   and I liked it I liked it a lot and a [TS]

01:00:24   book that i read recently that i really [TS]

01:00:26   liked is nexus by run as nom who i was [TS]

01:00:31   actually I bought it because i was on a [TS]

01:00:33   podcast with him i was on the boing [TS]

01:00:34   boing podcast with him and mark [TS]

01:00:36   frauenfelder and I i thought hey author [TS]

01:00:39   of sci-fi i will buy your book now as [TS]

01:00:41   i'm talking to you and he's got a new [TS]

01:00:43   book out now but this is his previous [TS]

01:00:46   one and I liked it a lot is a crazy kind [TS]

01:00:50   of like he's exploring lots of issues [TS]

01:00:52   while also having lots of crazy action [TS]

01:00:54   so he doesn't shy away from from it's [TS]

01:00:58   not a boring book it where it's like [TS]

01:01:00   let's talk about issues it's it's [TS]

01:01:01   there's lots of crazy action but the the [TS]

01:01:04   premise is that in the near future these [TS]

01:01:07   people have come up with this it's like [TS]

01:01:08   a drug but it's also like nanotech and [TS]

01:01:10   it's and it's called nexus and [TS]

01:01:12   essentially goes into your brain and it [TS]

01:01:16   turns your brain into a computer that [TS]

01:01:19   can be interfaced with other brains and [TS]

01:01:21   they can write software just in your [TS]

01:01:24   brain they don't need to like implant [TS]

01:01:25   anything in your brain it's just the the [TS]

01:01:27   drug the this nano stuff is in your in [TS]

01:01:31   your brain and then it plays out all the [TS]

01:01:34   ramifications of that again sort of like [TS]

01:01:35   what we said about the the time-travel [TS]

01:01:37   ramifications i really like it when they [TS]

01:01:38   play out all of the questions so this is [TS]

01:01:40   witness be cool you could you can [TS]

01:01:44   experience the emotional states of the [TS]

01:01:45   people around you and you can kind of [TS]

01:01:47   all kind of connect together and achieve [TS]

01:01:49   a higher consciousness but it also means [TS]

01:01:52   you can like to mind control and create [TS]

01:01:55   assassins who are unwilling assassins [TS]

01:01:57   and all these terrible things and create [TS]

01:01:59   a dystopian where governments are using [TS]

01:02:02   this to undermine freedom of thought and [TS]

01:02:05   it's all kind of in there together along [TS]

01:02:08   with some kind of almost singularity [TS]

01:02:11   like stuff about you know if [TS]

01:02:13   you if you do enough of this are they [TS]

01:02:15   people anymore are we sort of past [TS]

01:02:18   people and to some transhuman kind of [TS]

01:02:20   thing really interesting along with like [TS]

01:02:22   I said a lot of fun kind of crazy action [TS]

01:02:25   through the eyes of the two main [TS]

01:02:27   characters who are a scientist who has [TS]

01:02:28   gotten caught up in this in the [TS]

01:02:30   development of Nexus and a woman who is [TS]

01:02:34   a a an operative for the u.s. government [TS]

01:02:36   who when we are introduced to her [TS]

01:02:39   we sort of feel like she's you know [TS]

01:02:41   we're meant to think that the u.s. [TS]

01:02:44   government da world for the u.s. [TS]

01:02:46   government and then as the book goes [TS]

01:02:47   along you're like maybe I'm not for the [TS]

01:02:49   u.s. government after all which is a [TS]

01:02:50   nice flip around two so nexus romance [TS]

01:02:53   nom I i recommend it i like that one a [TS]

01:02:56   lot so that's what I've been reading and [TS]

01:02:57   then i read also these three books about [TS]

01:02:59   these 21st century Navy people who get [TS]

01:03:01   plopped down in 1940's crazy it's pretty [TS]

01:03:05   wild anymore it's pretty wild analyze [TS]

01:03:07   welcome lamora you know because then [TS]

01:03:09   more and shoved it into my hands and [TS]

01:03:11   said look this [TS]

01:03:13   ok you shoved into my amazon account [TS]

01:03:15   same thing it's true [TS]

01:03:17   well i can i can confirm that then it's [TS]

01:03:19   not like it's a good book and if you [TS]

01:03:21   don't like it there's something wrong [TS]

01:03:22   with you alright fair enough fair enough [TS]

01:03:25   so that that I think we've I think we've [TS]

01:03:28   settled all the old scores [TS]

01:03:29   Scott how how was it are you are you [TS]

01:03:31   back on the on the bicycle now back I [TS]

01:03:34   well you know i think i meani I might [TS]

01:03:36   need another one under my belt [TS]

01:03:38   yeah i can get to my the same level of [TS]

01:03:40   podcasting XO fair now that I've [TS]

01:03:42   delivered [TS]

01:03:43   we're just not going to rest off now [TS]

01:03:44   that's it alright fair enough and David [TS]

01:03:48   you know you you were you are in full [TS]

01:03:50   podcasting shape now I think apparently [TS]

01:03:53   I you know I colors are more vivid [TS]

01:03:56   Harry's cleaner mean it's amazing [TS]

01:03:58   maybe and for the next book club maybe [TS]

01:04:00   you'll finish the book haha yes well [TS]

01:04:03   look what you want to find the end and [TS]

01:04:05   Glenn oh haha hey i read almost all of [TS]

01:04:10   the hugo books did you read almost all [TS]

01:04:12   of them like you read four of them or [TS]

01:04:14   did you read like yes 705 i just read [TS]

01:04:17   like eighty percent of each one [TS]

01:04:19   yeah good way to go sure no I just kind [TS]

01:04:22   of looked at 2312 and when now [TS]

01:04:25   yeah that the title suggests that you [TS]

01:04:29   should only read twenty-three percent of [TS]

01:04:30   it or perhaps twelve percent of our yeah [TS]

01:04:32   well yeah i still like 2012 sorry Scott [TS]

01:04:36   you you actually you actually like that [TS]

01:04:38   voted for the you go and then you said [TS]

01:04:40   congratulations John Scalzi don't [TS]

01:04:42   redshirts it shocking that John school [TS]

01:04:45   sees red shirt that's fine Pete feed her [TS]

01:04:48   not feed but the third book in the news [TS]

01:04:50   flash trilogy finished last so you know [TS]

01:04:52   haha them all there to restore a little [TS]

01:04:55   of my face yeah the voters [TS]

01:04:57   yeah my fellow voters should clearly our [TS]

01:04:59   part yes clearly are issues with a [TS]

01:05:01   nomination process and not with the [TS]

01:05:02   final voting process so yeah it's true [TS]

01:05:06   yeah alright well we learned what would [TS]

01:05:08   happen if Galactus was made of jello no [TS]

01:05:10   I think we did and we and we learned we [TS]

01:05:16   learned lots of things about the history [TS]

01:05:18   that didn't happen and the Nazis were [TS]

01:05:21   made of jobs and and more importantly we [TS]

01:05:23   have I think 200 itunes reviews now [TS]

01:05:25   which is great if you haven't if you [TS]

01:05:27   haven't reviewed the incomparable on [TS]

01:05:29   itunes please do it that helps us a lot [TS]

01:05:31   and for those who did participate in our [TS]

01:05:33   in our challenge [TS]

01:05:36   thank you most especially to Dave cork [TS]

01:05:37   Roger who indeed got to house read books [TS]

01:05:41   and look he sold he sold a book to David [TS]

01:05:44   he sold three books to me and he sold [TS]

01:05:47   two books to scott who had already [TS]

01:05:48   bought one of them but hadn't read it [TS]

01:05:50   yet so he sold 12 past Scott to retro [TS]

01:05:53   actively to pass Scott exactly the new [TS]

01:05:56   Australian could write and read and he [TS]

01:05:58   sold the book it's a damn moron who then [TS]

01:06:00   didn't really read much of it and didn't [TS]

01:06:01   come on the podcast so it was a [TS]

01:06:03   disappointment that more [TS]

01:06:05   yeah and and there are two more books [TS]

01:06:07   that i have to buy yeah exactly now [TS]

01:06:09   they're interesting i recommended by i [TS]

01:06:10   would say anybody who who like some [TS]

01:06:12   military stuff war stuff and sci-fi [TS]

01:06:15   would really would really like it and if [TS]

01:06:17   you're interested if you're intrigued by [TS]

01:06:19   what we talked about the culture clash [TS]

01:06:20   stuff i guess i'd say just kind of motor [TS]

01:06:23   through the first twenty-five percent of [TS]

01:06:25   the book and then [TS]

01:06:27   hello you're a big j edgar hoover fan [TS]

01:06:30   you mean you may not want to read these [TS]

01:06:32   books because these books fully endorse [TS]

01:06:35   that the the j edgar hoover uh [TS]

01:06:39   alt history of him being closeted and [TS]

01:06:44   liking to dress in women's clothes and [TS]

01:06:47   all those things that are not i believe [TS]

01:06:48   not entirely substantiated in the [TS]

01:06:50   historical record i looked it up i was [TS]

01:06:52   like where those was that proven to be [TS]

01:06:54   true and very little of of Hoover's [TS]

01:06:57   history is is is proven to be that it's [TS]

01:07:00   it's much more just speculation but this [TS]

01:07:04   book runs with it which is actually kind [TS]

01:07:07   of funny and fun in a way it is but I [TS]

01:07:09   capris I sheesh this guy really doesn't [TS]

01:07:10   like over over all of the axes to grind [TS]

01:07:14   against Jagger Hoover oi [TS]

01:07:16   yeah yeah you hate j edgar hoover this [TS]

01:07:19   is a buy these books immediately [TS]

01:07:21   absolutely Hoover fans steer clear [TS]

01:07:26   Hoover valuable service that we've been [TS]

01:07:28   yes I'd here on overcast [TS]

01:07:31   that's right our friends at the j edgar [TS]

01:07:32   hoover podcast are going to be really [TS]

01:07:34   upset with this series let me tell you [TS]

01:07:36   all right well that wraps up another [TS]

01:07:39   exciting book club edition of the [TS]

01:07:41   incomparable so i'm going to say goodbye [TS]

01:07:42   to my fine well-read guests David lower [TS]

01:07:46   thanks for being here thank you for [TS]

01:07:48   having me and Scott melty welcome back [TS]

01:07:51   thank you for being back with us and [TS]

01:07:53   reading the books as always thank you [TS]

01:07:55   for having I was concerned that i had [TS]

01:07:57   been cast from the uncomfortable galaxy [TS]

01:08:01   no no another universe would never [TS]

01:08:04   happen you were not available person who [TS]

01:08:06   remembered it [TS]

01:08:06   plus you are attention master that's [TS]

01:08:08   true how could we not have our dungeon [TS]

01:08:11   master with us that would be at that is [TS]

01:08:13   an alternate past 20 riffic to [TS]

01:08:16   contemplate a degree yes [TS]

01:08:19   okay well until next time or until [TS]

01:08:22   somebody goes back in time and create a [TS]

01:08:23   parallel universe and we have to start [TS]

01:08:25   again from episode one [TS]

01:08:26   please don't do that kind i'm your host [TS]

01:08:30   Jason cell [TS]

01:08:30   thank you for listening don't go back in [TS]

01:08:32   time don't mess up the time stream and [TS]

01:08:35   we'll see you next time [TS]