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Hypercritical

34: Pride in Craftsmanship

 

00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:00   this is hypercritical a weekly talkshow [TS]

00:00:03   ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:06   the world of Apple related technologies [TS]

00:00:08   in business is nothing is so perfect [TS]

00:00:10   it cannot be complained about by a host [TS]

00:00:14   of the show John siracusa I'm Dan [TS]

00:00:17   Benjamin this is episode number 34 like [TS]

00:00:21   to say thanks for a bandwidth which has [TS]

00:00:24   been provided by - Green Tech Virtual [TS]

00:00:26   Private servers submerged in oil [TS]

00:00:29   get your free bandwidth today - green [TS]

00:00:31   techcom / 5x5 would also like to say [TS]

00:00:34   thanks to our two sponsors campaign [TS]

00:00:38   monitor calm and Shopify dot-com will [TS]

00:00:41   tell you about them more as the show [TS]

00:00:44   goes on how're you doing this week John [TS]

00:00:46   siracusa I'm pretty good fair yeah not [TS]

00:00:51   great this week busy exciting week we [TS]

00:00:54   exciting for for the Windows users among [TS]

00:00:56   us I'm excited I'm not a Windows user [TS]

00:00:58   and I'm excited excited to become to [TS]

00:01:01   become a Windows user perhaps not really [TS]

00:01:03   but I'm excited about the events of the [TS]

00:01:05   week like what what besides Windows 8 or [TS]

00:01:08   the big events when Metro but that's [TS]

00:01:09   basically that's it the events of the [TS]

00:01:12   week is matter we'll talk about that but [TS]

00:01:14   I do have to burn through some follow up [TS]

00:01:16   here ok burn it out try to do some [TS]

00:01:18   lightning fast corrections lightning [TS]

00:01:21   round [TS]

00:01:21   take it on last week we actually be like [TS]

00:01:24   lightning ful of you Oh [TS]

00:01:26   lfyou is an acronym used for something [TS]

00:01:30   already [TS]

00:01:30   ok an abbreviation sorry so oh we get it [TS]

00:01:34   as good go into the difference between [TS]

00:01:35   an acronym and an abbreviation later if [TS]

00:01:37   that could be a follow up for next week [TS]

00:01:39   people can look it up in the dictionary [TS]

00:01:40   and tell me I'm wrong [TS]

00:01:42   so we talked about markdown a little bit [TS]

00:01:44   last week and as I was listening to the [TS]

00:01:46   show as I always do after I record it I [TS]

00:01:48   realized that every time I was talking [TS]

00:01:50   about markdown I'm giving like examples [TS]

00:01:52   of how what markdown is like and I [TS]

00:01:55   reversed the the meaning I was like all [TS]

00:01:58   you put like a little asterisks around [TS]

00:02:00   the word and we'll make it bold and you [TS]

00:02:02   know and underscores we'll make it [TS]

00:02:04   italic my how mark 10 works no no one [TS]

00:02:06   sent me a correction for this but the [TS]

00:02:07   second I heard it I realized it was [TS]

00:02:08   wrong [TS]

00:02:09   asterisks make it italic single [TS]

00:02:12   underscores make it italic and [TS]

00:02:13   wander scores make it bold so not that [TS]

00:02:17   detail was particularly important but I [TS]

00:02:19   was constantly getting it wrong in that [TS]

00:02:20   whole show maybe you're thinking you [TS]

00:02:22   were thinking of textile that's why I [TS]

00:02:24   was probably thinking of as a friend of [TS]

00:02:26   mine pointed out I made a couple of [TS]

00:02:29   little UNIX utilities back in the day [TS]

00:02:31   for sending plain text messages to lists [TS]

00:02:33   and then I had it interpret plain text [TS]

00:02:35   messages and dude like the vt100 escape [TS]

00:02:38   codes to make like bold text and [TS]

00:02:40   underlining and stuff and in my little [TS]

00:02:43   thing when there were stars around a [TS]

00:02:45   word i omitted the vt100 codes for bold [TS]

00:02:47   text so I was thinking back to my [TS]

00:02:51   misspent youth and how I interpreted the [TS]

00:02:54   commonly used emphasis characters in [TS]

00:02:56   plain ASCII communication i someone in [TS]

00:02:59   the chat room says double asterisk not [TS]

00:03:01   around and make it bold but anyway [TS]

00:03:03   though for those relying on that last [TS]

00:03:05   podcast for actual detailed information [TS]

00:03:07   on how markdown works don't I put the [TS]

00:03:09   link to these actual markdown syntax [TS]

00:03:10   documentation in the show notes so let [TS]

00:03:13   me ask you a question then shouldn't [TS]

00:03:14   your general lack of familiarity with [TS]

00:03:17   markdown and its usage imply that your [TS]

00:03:21   opinion maybe should be called into [TS]

00:03:22   question because you're not really [TS]

00:03:24   familiar with it you haven't maybe given [TS]

00:03:26   it a chance you haven't given it a fair [TS]

00:03:28   chance [TS]

00:03:28   it's like saying oh I don't I don't like [TS]

00:03:30   f-16s oh well why not well they have [TS]

00:03:33   this wrong with them and this wrong that [TS]

00:03:34   we'll have you ever flown an f-16 [TS]

00:03:36   - no I don't like it i I've I've used it [TS]

00:03:40   plenty but I guess in my writing I don't [TS]

00:03:42   make words bold or italic and often you [TS]

00:03:45   just we'll see about indecision and [TS]

00:03:47   again I knew which was which I just for [TS]

00:03:49   whatever reason I misspoke repeatedly [TS]

00:03:51   during the show like I said well soon as [TS]

00:03:53   I listen to it I said that's not how you [TS]

00:03:55   make things I feel like so right yeah [TS]

00:03:56   and no one sent that in so it must not [TS]

00:03:59   have been that important so I think I do [TS]

00:04:00   I am familiar enough with markdown to [TS]

00:04:03   have a reasonable opinion on it okay I [TS]

00:04:05   will grant you that and I will also say [TS]

00:04:07   that maybe our audiences so become so [TS]

00:04:09   trusting of you now they were all asleep [TS]

00:04:11   come on that they no longer another [TS]

00:04:13   question question if siracusa says so it [TS]

00:04:16   must be true now they were all asleep [TS]

00:04:18   all right so the next one we talked [TS]

00:04:20   about a languages with specks I think [TS]

00:04:23   it's part of that same episode I was [TS]

00:04:24   mentioning that Perl ray doesn't have a [TS]

00:04:25   language spec and I didn't know if pie [TS]

00:04:27   did someone sent in the Python reference [TS]

00:04:28   and we're talking about spec versus [TS]

00:04:30   reference blah blah right and they said [TS]

00:04:31   whether somebody else said the pointing [TS]

00:04:33   out that the Ruby one is I guess under [TS]

00:04:35   development right so this is this Ruby [TS]

00:04:38   spec project is a project to write an [TS]

00:04:40   executable specification for the Ruby [TS]

00:04:42   programming language so that that [TS]

00:04:43   apparently is underway although you [TS]

00:04:45   noted what an executable specification [TS]

00:04:47   is I guess it's more kind of like the [TS]

00:04:48   Perl six test suite I'm not sure but [TS]

00:04:50   anyway I put the link in the show notes [TS]

00:04:51   so if people are interested in the state [TS]

00:04:53   of spec development for Ruby they can [TS]

00:04:55   follow that I think it's Ruby spec [TS]

00:04:56   torgue the MIT course that I talked [TS]

00:05:00   about when you went off on some weird [TS]

00:05:02   side rail about robot competitions I [TS]

00:05:05   don't even remember what prompted that [TS]

00:05:06   I'm talking about robots yeah maybe that [TS]

00:05:09   the name of that course is 6.2 seven [TS]

00:05:12   zero its MIT is autonomous robot design [TS]

00:05:14   competition and I put a link to that in [TS]

00:05:16   the show notes I also put it in last [TS]

00:05:17   week's show so if you're interested in [TS]

00:05:19   what that is I was trying to find the [TS]

00:05:21   old Nova episode from like the late 80s [TS]

00:05:23   that showed the particular competition [TS]

00:05:25   that I saw and I couldn't find video it [TS]

00:05:27   online but they do list all the old [TS]

00:05:29   competitions on their website that I [TS]

00:05:31   liked and one this is a way back one at [TS]

00:05:35   one point I was talking about was I've [TS]

00:05:38   got battery life or not I was banned [TS]

00:05:40   bandwidth usage you asked me if Sprint [TS]

00:05:42   unlimited bandwidth would be a motivator [TS]

00:05:44   for me to go to sprint and I was [TS]

00:05:46   mentioning how I and I bought the 3G [TS]

00:05:48   from my iPad I picked the middle plan [TS]

00:05:50   due to anchoring and all that business [TS]

00:05:52   uh but I didn't even come close to using [TS]

00:05:55   the bandwidth whatever was to gigs I [TS]

00:05:57   didn't even come close to it and I said [TS]

00:05:58   and I was using it all day and I even [TS]

00:06:00   watch from television shows and I [TS]

00:06:02   mentioned that I watched Game of Thrones [TS]

00:06:03   i netflix and of course they didn't [TS]

00:06:05   watch Game of Thrones on netbooks [TS]

00:06:06   because Netflix doesn't care Game of [TS]

00:06:07   Thrones is usually easy and you just [TS]

00:06:09   want to see are we really paying [TS]

00:06:10   attention yeah well no I see I hear them [TS]

00:06:12   when I listen to the episode I'm like [TS]

00:06:13   what that makes no sense but when I'm [TS]

00:06:15   talking I guess comes out too fast me to [TS]

00:06:17   think but anyway Game of Thrones was on [TS]

00:06:18   the HBO go iPad app which you have to be [TS]

00:06:20   a subscriber to HBO I believe to view [TS]

00:06:23   I'm always frustrated by that app is I [TS]

00:06:24   can never remember what the hell my [TS]

00:06:25   login well actually not to correct you [TS]

00:06:27   it's not as simple as being a subscriber [TS]

00:06:29   to HBO you have to be an HBO subscriber [TS]

00:06:32   on the appropriate through the [TS]

00:06:35   appropriate cable provider really yes [TS]

00:06:37   and many of you have HBO through RCN or [TS]

00:06:39   some other thing [TS]

00:06:40   can't get it right or for example if [TS]

00:06:42   you're here in the great state of Texas [TS]

00:06:45   you would like to do that and you can't [TS]

00:06:48   because most of us here are Time Warner [TS]

00:06:50   Cable people we want my people but we [TS]

00:06:55   you we're getting our HBO through Time [TS]

00:06:57   Warner Cable and Time Warner Cable has [TS]

00:06:58   not come to any kind of agreement with [TS]

00:07:00   HBO and what that means is that we do [TS]

00:07:02   not have the luxury of being able to use [TS]

00:07:04   this wonderful app that the whole rest [TS]

00:07:06   of the world uses and loves and benefits [TS]

00:07:09   from we can't use it because Time Warner [TS]

00:07:10   Cable and HBO they won't you know they [TS]

00:07:14   won't sit in the same row together so we [TS]

00:07:18   don't get to use it let's do but it is [TS]

00:07:20   stupid and even when you can use it I'm [TS]

00:07:22   constantly trying to figure out and [TS]

00:07:24   remember how do I log into this app to [TS]

00:07:27   convince it that I am actually a serrata [TS]

00:07:29   subscriber to HBO through Verizon FiOS [TS]

00:07:31   blah blah blah because there's some [TS]

00:07:33   connection to your verizon account right [TS]

00:07:35   I can never remember what my login and [TS]

00:07:37   password isn't I get the impression that [TS]

00:07:38   two different logins and passwords to [TS]

00:07:40   possibly work it's a frustrating [TS]

00:07:41   application alright so those are my [TS]

00:07:44   quick follow-ups and then I have a [TS]

00:07:45   slightly longer follow-up that I still [TS]

00:07:47   want to get through and enough time so [TS]

00:07:48   we can talk about Windows 8 this is a [TS]

00:07:51   follow up to something you were talking [TS]

00:07:52   about on the talk show yesterday I [TS]

00:07:54   believe talking about before yes we have [TS]

00:07:58   a lot to talk about about that but [TS]

00:07:59   before we do I just want to say John [TS]

00:08:00   Gruber for those who don't listen to the [TS]

00:08:02   talk show jumping back to your markdown [TS]

00:08:03   thing this is in my notes here John [TS]

00:08:05   Gruber would whether or not he will have [TS]

00:08:08   a thorough response or not we don't know [TS]

00:08:10   but he is going to be listening to last [TS]

00:08:13   week's episode of hyper critical to [TS]

00:08:15   listen to your comments about markdown [TS]

00:08:17   and he may in typical Gruber fashion so [TS]

00:08:20   yeah well his news right and that might [TS]

00:08:22   be his response or he may have a long [TS]

00:08:24   thing so I would recommend that those [TS]

00:08:25   who are interested in furthering [TS]

00:08:27   discussion of markdown probably to wear [TS]

00:08:30   to its end point will listen to next [TS]

00:08:32   week's episode of the top show so that's [TS]

00:08:34   the strategy now I just mentioned [TS]

00:08:36   markdown in every show it's an Emmy [TS]

00:08:37   convinced Gruber tool actually listen to [TS]

00:08:38   them alright I think that's probably the [TS]

00:08:41   only way we can get him to listen to a [TS]

00:08:44   show would be to talk about something [TS]

00:08:45   that he's known for him and has done [TS]

00:08:47   probably I talk about him all the time [TS]

00:08:49   that doesn't make him listen anyway [TS]

00:08:51   now we have the Douglas star wear it [TS]

00:08:53   Star Wars yeah ah he talked about and [TS]

00:08:56   well first of all I could not believe [TS]

00:08:58   that he didn't know about the whole [TS]

00:09:00   Return of the Jedi [TS]

00:09:01   no insertion I didn't know about it [TS]

00:09:02   either I'll get one Internet are you [TS]

00:09:05   people using not currently the wrong one [TS]

00:09:07   my wife knew about this last week [TS]

00:09:10   seriously you guys are behind well I [TS]

00:09:12   think we're counting on you two to bring [TS]

00:09:14   us a whole Star Wars nerd ISM there oh [TS]

00:09:19   I'm like I'm not I'm not reading movie [TS]

00:09:22   websites every day but it just it [TS]

00:09:23   pirkled up percolates whatever comes up [TS]

00:09:25   and I don't know how I not even know [TS]

00:09:27   where I read it but everybody knew man I [TS]

00:09:29   mean I I feel terrible yeah so so you [TS]

00:09:33   discuss that a lot and my favorite thing [TS]

00:09:36   about that show was that one of you I [TS]

00:09:38   forget which one was made worse in the [TS]

00:09:39   chatroom link to the amazon.com review [TS]

00:09:42   for the ants that was me blu-ray [TS]

00:09:44   complete collection did you write that [TS]

00:09:45   you know 1129 reviews 829 of which are 1 [TS]

00:09:51   stock right 70 something percent are 1 [TS]

00:09:54   star reviews for this quote-unquote [TS]

00:09:55   beloved movie wipe Israel hate George [TS]

00:09:57   Lucas now it's great to see that because [TS]

00:09:59   I always think it's like I was just this [TS]

00:10:01   angry Star Wars nerds the only people [TS]

00:10:02   who care but the mass of humanity loves [TS]

00:10:05   it so I expected to go there and see how [TS]

00:10:06   Star Wars blu-ray 5 stars everyone loves [TS]

00:10:08   Star Wars but at this point I mean that [TS]

00:10:11   seems like a high number of me it's not [TS]

00:10:12   just Star Wars nerds going out of the [TS]

00:10:14   way to rate this badly and all right I [TS]

00:10:15   don't know maybe this hard to tell so [TS]

00:10:18   way back on hypercritical episode 13 I [TS]

00:10:21   talked about I again I don't how's the [TS]

00:10:22   topic came up but I talked about how [TS]

00:10:25   easy it would be for George Lucas to [TS]

00:10:26   find like the very best technicians and [TS]

00:10:29   artists who work for free to produce a [TS]

00:10:32   digital clean version of the original [TS]

00:10:33   trilogy without modification because [TS]

00:10:35   like the most talented people in the [TS]

00:10:37   entire industry would work so hard for [TS]

00:10:39   him for free yeah do and do better work [TS]

00:10:42   than they do for their paid work because [TS]

00:10:44   it would be a labor of love to simply [TS]

00:10:46   preserve the original trilogy as it [TS]

00:10:48   existed when it was shown in theaters [TS]

00:10:50   you know maybe clean it up a little bit [TS]

00:10:52   for that set but the content would [TS]

00:10:53   remain unchanged right and I linked to [TS]

00:10:57   that secret history of Star Wars the [TS]

00:10:59   thing about saving Star Wars I'll link [TS]

00:11:00   to it again in this show notes about the [TS]

00:11:02   state of the actual film negatives for [TS]

00:11:04   the original Star [TS]

00:11:05   was like the fact that the cutting [TS]

00:11:07   pieces out of them to use in the new [TS]

00:11:08   things and Lucas's bogus claims about [TS]

00:11:10   how the original negatives are gone [TS]

00:11:11   mm-hmm all sorts of stuff like that so [TS]

00:11:14   people should read that link again in [TS]

00:11:16   the show unto the demon already uh and I [TS]

00:11:20   think we're never asking Gruber was [TS]

00:11:21   saying wha [TS]

00:11:22   that he's not gonna buy this one that [TS]

00:11:24   he's given that guy enough money's got [TS]

00:11:26   50 cuz I had I had asked him if he was [TS]

00:11:28   going to be getting the the blu-ray [TS]

00:11:29   version of of all of the Star Wars [TS]

00:11:32   because that's it there that's what this [TS]

00:11:34   is all about is that you can go to your [TS]

00:11:37   favorite store or ordered on Amazon that [TS]

00:11:40   all of the movies all of the Star Wars [TS]

00:11:42   movies are being released on blu-ray [TS]

00:11:44   episodes all of them all the new all the [TS]

00:11:47   old everything yeah they do actually [TS]

00:11:49   sell a separate one with just the [TS]

00:11:50   prequels I think in a separate one with [TS]

00:11:52   just the real movies okay I don't know I [TS]

00:11:53   don't know what anyone would buy the [TS]

00:11:54   Complete Saga because no one should ever [TS]

00:11:56   have the prequels in their house if they [TS]

00:11:58   can help it yeah yeah [TS]

00:12:01   so and he said he wasn't gonna buy see [TS]

00:12:03   already at 50 million copies now I have [TS]

00:12:04   many copies as well we got VHS copies a [TS]

00:12:07   couple of different VHS copies one of [TS]

00:12:10   which i think is even actually the [TS]

00:12:11   special edition and I do have the DVD [TS]

00:12:14   versions of the original trilogy also [TS]

00:12:17   but I also have like a DVD transfer of [TS]

00:12:21   the laserdisc version which is the [TS]

00:12:22   unadulterated non special edition thing [TS]

00:12:24   but it's only DVD quality so these are [TS]

00:12:25   all standard def and the whole reason [TS]

00:12:27   Star Wars blu-rays are big deals because [TS]

00:12:28   it's the first time they'll be [TS]

00:12:29   officially available high-definition [TS]

00:12:32   version of the Star Wars movies as far [TS]

00:12:33   as I know I think there's never been any [TS]

00:12:35   official high debt versions of the [TS]

00:12:36   movies released good they look really [TS]

00:12:40   good visually and that's what people [TS]

00:12:42   initially would think weakly oh it's [TS]

00:12:44   gonna be all array it's gonna be Star [TS]

00:12:45   Wars when they did that the DVDs I [TS]

00:12:48   remember looking at them and thinking [TS]

00:12:49   that for example Darth Vader's [TS]

00:12:51   lightsaber look too pink to me like that [TS]

00:12:53   I remembered it being redder and they [TS]

00:12:54   supposedly had cleaned them up and colic [TS]

00:12:56   right ebay ignored like in scenes didn't [TS]

00:12:58   have any additions than no Digital [TS]

00:12:59   Editions I don't know that just like it [TS]

00:13:01   looked different to me and there's lots [TS]

00:13:02   of scholarly research on the web where [TS]

00:13:04   you can find people showing scenes with [TS]

00:13:07   different color balances through many [TS]

00:13:08   different versions people arguing over [TS]

00:13:09   what it should look like how it was [TS]

00:13:11   projected or whether when it was [TS]

00:13:13   projected it look different because the [TS]

00:13:14   projector was set up badly or whatever [TS]

00:13:16   so we're I'm going to come down this is [TS]

00:13:19   that I may buy the original trilogy on [TS]

00:13:22   blu-ray for one reason and that reason [TS]

00:13:25   is Empire Strikes Back which is one of [TS]

00:13:28   my favorite movies of all times and [TS]

00:13:29   crucially the least adulterated of the [TS]

00:13:32   original trilogy films certainly now [TS]

00:13:34   with the stupid no and Return of the [TS]

00:13:35   Jedi as far as I know that have not been [TS]

00:13:37   any additional crap Lucas isms added to [TS]

00:13:40   Empire Strikes Back and the things added [TS]

00:13:43   thus far have been smaller not lots of [TS]

00:13:45   like plot altering sacrilegious content [TS]

00:13:48   crap like you know Rito shooting first [TS]

00:13:51   that business so that totally destroys a [TS]

00:13:53   new hope right and those stupid [TS]

00:13:56   dinosaurs jumping all over the place [TS]

00:13:57   which grazetti didn't mind but I [TS]

00:13:58   certainly do mine the knee replacement [TS]

00:14:01   of the ghost at the end of Return our [TS]

00:14:02   Jedi would that with Hayden Christensen [TS]

00:14:04   yeah that Return of the Jedi hundreds [TS]

00:14:06   more fathers do thing now it becomes [TS]

00:14:09   unwatchable you can't even watch that so [TS]

00:14:10   what about the Ewoks who blink and you [TS]

00:14:12   can hear them blinking yeah like that I [TS]

00:14:15   mean I think content changers are more [TS]

00:14:17   egregious in elements so both Return of [TS]

00:14:19   the Jedi and a new hope have these [TS]

00:14:20   horrible content changes and Empire [TS]

00:14:22   Strikes Back as far as I know it was the [TS]

00:14:23   least adulterated before and as far as I [TS]

00:14:25   know in the blu-ray it continues to be [TS]

00:14:26   the least adulterated without any stupid [TS]

00:14:28   content changes so what it will give me [TS]

00:14:31   is a much higher quality version of [TS]

00:14:33   Empire Strikes Back that I will actually [TS]

00:14:34   deign to watch even though it is not [TS]

00:14:37   100% pure like they painted in all the [TS]

00:14:39   windows in the Cloud City and they have [TS]

00:14:40   a new sequence where you fly through the [TS]

00:14:41   cloud city before the money falcon lands [TS]

00:14:43   and stuff like that sticks out and it's [TS]

00:14:45   annoying and I could do without it oh [TS]

00:14:47   the stupid scene with Darth Vader taking [TS]

00:14:49   his shuttle from Cloud City back to the [TS]

00:14:50   Star Destroyer as if we didn't know how [TS]

00:14:52   he got there before now that explains it [TS]

00:14:54   I did it before I was so confused when [TS]

00:14:55   it appeared on the Stars bro right get [TS]

00:14:58   there I have no idea so stuff like that [TS]

00:15:01   I mean it's stupid but it's nothing [TS]

00:15:03   close to yeah you know Greedo shooting [TS]

00:15:06   first or or the the stupid ghost [TS]

00:15:10   replacement or the no with Chuck and [TS]

00:15:12   amber over so that's why I think I may [TS]

00:15:13   find myself in possession of an empire [TS]

00:15:17   strikes back [TS]

00:15:18   a blu-ray at some point mm-hmm certainly [TS]

00:15:20   not the prequels and the other two yeah [TS]

00:15:23   so one last thing on this a friend of [TS]

00:15:27   mine were talking about this online and [TS]

00:15:28   he did a blog post recently about it [TS]

00:15:30   with the great title bad motive [TS]

00:15:33   and it's about George Lucas copyright [TS]

00:15:36   and all that other business I put a link [TS]

00:15:38   to it in the show notes his main point [TS]

00:15:40   his larger point aside from you know [TS]

00:15:41   Lucas tweaking these films and doing his [TS]

00:15:43   horrible mistakes and stuff is that [TS]

00:15:45   copyright is way too long I would [TS]

00:15:47   basically have a eternal copyright in [TS]

00:15:48   this country because of the various [TS]

00:15:49   Mickey Mouse clauses every time Disney's [TS]

00:15:51   properties come up for a cop to to go [TS]

00:15:53   into the public domain [TS]

00:15:54   Disney lobbies Congress and they extend [TS]

00:15:55   copyright longer so even though [TS]

00:15:57   copyright is supposed to be for quote [TS]

00:15:58   unquote a limited time every time that [TS]

00:16:00   limit is about to be reached [TS]

00:16:02   they just extended farther so copyright [TS]

00:16:04   is ridiculously long and my friend his [TS]

00:16:07   name is John McCoy his point was that if [TS]

00:16:10   the if the original Star Wars films had [TS]

00:16:13   been released under the original 17-year [TS]

00:16:15   term of copyright I don't remember what [TS]

00:16:17   that term is from is that the original [TS]

00:16:18   term in the first instance of copyright [TS]

00:16:21   law I don't I didn't look it up but you [TS]

00:16:22   can but anyway I trust his his research [TS]

00:16:24   here if it had been released under that [TS]

00:16:26   thing we wouldn't be having this debate [TS]

00:16:28   because the material will be in the [TS]

00:16:30   public domain and as he points out [TS]

00:16:31   criterion could release a restored [TS]

00:16:33   original version with commentary by you [TS]

00:16:35   know historians and fans Walmart could [TS]

00:16:38   release a version with all the incest [TS]

00:16:40   taken out this alliance from his article [TS]

00:16:42   ya know what if they if they're offended [TS]

00:16:45   by their brother and sister kissing you [TS]

00:16:47   know in Empire Strikes Back they could [TS]

00:16:48   remove that right Lucas Lucas could make [TS]

00:16:50   his stupid versions Jar Jar everywhere [TS]

00:16:52   right and it's a quote from this thing [TS]

00:16:55   the point is that art with the capital a [TS]

00:16:57   would be served in commerce with a [TS]

00:16:58   capital C little cent sign would be [TS]

00:17:00   served as well so it the fact that you [TS]

00:17:04   know the rights holders are not the [TS]

00:17:05   right people to hold the rights of [TS]

00:17:06   things you shouldn't have them this [TS]

00:17:07   longer this had been if this was in the [TS]

00:17:09   public domain people will be making more [TS]

00:17:11   money and there would be more artistic [TS]

00:17:13   freedom we wouldn't be having this [TS]

00:17:14   debate you know it's not as if we'd be [TS]

00:17:16   taking rights away from Lucas he would [TS]

00:17:18   still have the right to release his [TS]

00:17:19   great version with all these special [TS]

00:17:20   stuffin and if that's actually better [TS]

00:17:21   people would buy it but now these are [TS]

00:17:24   the only versions you know as Gruber [TS]

00:17:26   point out if someone just released the [TS]

00:17:27   if you just released the original [TS]

00:17:28   trilogy and these modified ones then the [TS]

00:17:30   consumers could pick whichever we want [TS]

00:17:32   no one would care they'd be like all [TS]

00:17:33   those new changes think but I'm just [TS]

00:17:35   gonna buy the other one right [TS]

00:17:36   instead we wouldn't all be hating Lucas [TS]

00:17:38   because he's just denying us the [TS]

00:17:39   original movies that we want to see and [TS]

00:17:40   hide that version so I suggest people [TS]

00:17:43   read that length article [TS]

00:17:45   a bad motivator on John McCoy's blog [TS]

00:17:49   strangely titled pathetic fallacy ok [TS]

00:17:52   faith has some sums ask us about this or [TS]

00:17:54   me mainly alright ok this this is my [TS]

00:17:59   question like I didn't understand why [TS]

00:18:02   people were getting so like upset about [TS]

00:18:04   Lukas changing the movies because [TS]

00:18:06   they're his movies so shouldn't he [TS]

00:18:09   shouldn't he'd be able to but you sort [TS]

00:18:12   of just answered it so just correct me [TS]

00:18:14   if I if I'm not getting this right so [TS]

00:18:17   people the grievance people have with [TS]

00:18:18   this is that the original versions are [TS]

00:18:21   no longer available it's not solely that [TS]

00:18:23   he's making alterations to them so I'm [TS]

00:18:26   going to quote from John McCoy again [TS]

00:18:27   who's my obi-wan on his topic you're [TS]

00:18:30   your obi-wan yeah at a certain point the [TS]

00:18:32   relevance art was more to the actions of [TS]

00:18:34   the audience than to the author like [TS]

00:18:36   it's his when he creates it and he [TS]

00:18:37   deserves to be able to make money from [TS]

00:18:39   it but once it goes out into the public [TS]

00:18:41   consciousness it becomes part of our [TS]

00:18:43   culture it's no longer his it's part of [TS]

00:18:45   the culture and he can do whatever he [TS]

00:18:46   wants with derivatives of it and change [TS]

00:18:48   it and stuff like that but the original [TS]

00:18:49   Star Wars should be part of the popular [TS]

00:18:51   culture and should not be held captive [TS]

00:18:52   for 90 years or however long to the [TS]

00:18:55   whims of this person so much so if he [TS]

00:18:57   refuses to release the original version [TS]

00:18:59   of the film that we all saw in the 70s [TS]

00:19:01   and 80s right that's part of the culture [TS]

00:19:03   that's not his anymore it's bigger than [TS]

00:19:04   him so he shouldn't be able to somebody [TS]

00:19:08   shouldn't I mean the laws are the laws [TS]

00:19:09   what I'm saying is do anything illegal [TS]

00:19:10   or immoral or even unethical it's just [TS]

00:19:13   bad for the culture it's it's bad for [TS]

00:19:15   commerce not that that really matters [TS]

00:19:17   that much but it's additionally bad for [TS]

00:19:19   commerce and it's just bad for everybody [TS]

00:19:20   bad for arc it makes all of us unhappy [TS]

00:19:23   so again I wouldn't say what he's not [TS]

00:19:25   doing anything legal he's not doing [TS]

00:19:26   anything immoral and I don't think he's [TS]

00:19:27   even doing anything unethical he's just [TS]

00:19:29   doing something it is suboptimal [TS]

00:19:31   let's say so yeah then the main gripe [TS]

00:19:33   people have is not so much of he's [TS]

00:19:35   changing his thing the way he wants it [TS]

00:19:36   fine let him do whatever the heck he [TS]

00:19:37   wants it's his it's that he's also you [TS]

00:19:41   know being a stick-in-the-mud and not [TS]

00:19:42   giving us the original versions that we [TS]

00:19:44   all saw that we all want seriously it's [TS]

00:19:46   not like it's on he went added an [TS]

00:19:47   additional chapter to the end of a novel [TS]

00:19:49   like Anthony Burgess did with Clockwork [TS]

00:19:51   Orange where it changes the whole feel [TS]

00:19:53   of a novel and that kind of thing you're [TS]

00:19:54   saying that because the original not the [TS]

00:19:58   work is is essentially been redacted [TS]

00:20:01   it's been removed it's it's been read [TS]

00:20:03   Condon there's there is no way to go [TS]

00:20:04   back and see what was originally a like [TS]

00:20:07   I unless you have an original negative [TS]

00:20:09   from the original theatrical runs you [TS]

00:20:10   can't even like you know if you're a [TS]

00:20:11   movie theater so I want to show the [TS]

00:20:13   original trilogy not the special [TS]

00:20:14   editions you can't even get that movie [TS]

00:20:16   you know it please I will sell tickets [TS]

00:20:18   and I will give you money in exchange [TS]

00:20:20   for people who come to see this movie [TS]

00:20:21   and then know that we won't give it to [TS]

00:20:23   you again that's his legal right and I [TS]

00:20:25   don't think it's a moral or ethical [TS]

00:20:26   thing that is just it's just worse for [TS]

00:20:28   our culture our culture is poorer for it [TS]

00:20:32   for not being able to see those movies [TS]

00:20:34   you know we have to just wait has one [TS]

00:20:36   ever to wait till he's dead I guess I [TS]

00:20:37   wait you know who knows when the [TS]

00:20:38   copyright bill ever expire or how long [TS]

00:20:41   it will be with his estate that's [TS]

00:20:43   another thing that John McCloy brings up [TS]

00:20:44   in his article talking about the James [TS]

00:20:46   Joyce estate and how they've held on to [TS]

00:20:48   his rights for so long and how the [TS]

00:20:50   ancestors of great artists are not [TS]

00:20:53   necessarily the best stewards of the [TS]

00:20:55   work because they're not interested in [TS]

00:20:56   the greater benefit of the culture the [TS]

00:20:59   more interested in either lining their [TS]

00:21:00   pockets are protecting the works from [TS]

00:21:02   any altercation alteration rather did [TS]

00:21:07   you see there was an article that came [TS]

00:21:08   out I don't know how actually how old [TS]

00:21:12   the article was but affiliate was a [TS]

00:21:14   recent where Steven Spielberg announced [TS]

00:21:18   it for his blu-ray stuff of like et that [TS]

00:21:21   he is going to be removing the things [TS]

00:21:24   that he that he did to change it I want [TS]

00:21:26   the the example that I remember was [TS]

00:21:28   cited was at one point The Secret [TS]

00:21:30   Service agents were running around with [TS]

00:21:33   guns and while it was during the scene [TS]

00:21:36   where Elliot and sorry for preventing [TS]

00:21:38   the movie for those haven't seen et I [TS]

00:21:40   guess it will get email oh you ruined [TS]

00:21:42   social Redemption bleep okay okay fine [TS]

00:21:45   don't listen for the next three minutes [TS]

00:21:48   the part where Elliot et riding and the [TS]

00:21:51   bike and et is up in the front and [TS]

00:21:52   they're escaping after et wakes up and [TS]

00:21:55   the I guess it in this scene the Secret [TS]

00:21:57   Service agents are running around with [TS]

00:21:59   yeah I don't know whether it was machine [TS]

00:22:00   guns or pistols or whatever they had [TS]

00:22:01   guns and Spielberg went back in and [TS]

00:22:05   tweaked the heck out of this thing and [TS]

00:22:07   turned it into walkie talkies so they [TS]

00:22:10   were running around with walkie-talkies [TS]

00:22:11   point [TS]

00:22:12   to that ad I guess uh and so he he had [TS]

00:22:17   changed that and he had I guess he said [TS]

00:22:22   that he felt that he had somehow [TS]

00:22:25   betrayed the original feeling associated [TS]

00:22:28   with the movie and is is going to [TS]

00:22:31   restore the original et movie the way it [TS]

00:22:35   was originally filmed regardless of what [TS]

00:22:39   was changed later he's restoring the [TS]

00:22:42   original one for this final sort of [TS]

00:22:43   blu-ray release as well he should and [TS]

00:22:47   you know if I can I'll take a second to [TS]

00:22:49   armchair psychoanalyze without ever [TS]

00:22:52   meeting or really knowing anything about [TS]

00:22:53   Lucas and Spielberg to compare why one [TS]

00:22:56   is reversing the other has just doubled [TS]

00:22:57   down Lucas has always been I think he [TS]

00:23:01   sees himself as an outsider and always [TS]

00:23:03   has seen himself as an outsider he [TS]

00:23:04   wanted to get out of the Hollywood [TS]

00:23:05   system he wanted to you know do his own [TS]

00:23:07   thing on Scott Walker Ranch wanted to be [TS]

00:23:08   an independent filmmaker didn't want to [TS]

00:23:10   be under the thumb of studios didn't [TS]

00:23:12   like dealing with him always wanted to [TS]

00:23:13   be financially independent and I think [TS]

00:23:15   that comes from like sort of an [TS]

00:23:18   us-versus-them oppressed minority thing [TS]

00:23:20   even though he's like you know the [TS]

00:23:21   800-pound gorilla at this point right [TS]

00:23:23   this is just his attitude so that's why [TS]

00:23:25   when people criticize him for making [TS]

00:23:26   changes he's not able to process that [TS]

00:23:29   criticism constructively but simply [TS]

00:23:32   withdraws and become stubborn says oh [TS]

00:23:34   yeah well I'm going to add more stuff [TS]

00:23:35   debt and you know climate wheezing it's [TS]

00:23:36   doing what Dan paper kids the kids love [TS]

00:23:39   like that [TS]

00:23:40   he's the grumpy kid who's like being [TS]

00:23:42   stubborn and just I know I won't do it [TS]

00:23:44   the more you the more you yell about the [TS]

00:23:45   more I'm going to you know where [TS]

00:23:47   Spielberg is well-adjusted enough to [TS]

00:23:50   look at the criticism and think about it [TS]

00:23:52   so maybe they are right maybe I am going [TS]

00:23:54   back and changing things because you [TS]

00:23:55   know my attitude may be different when [TS]

00:23:56   I'm older but the a younger Steven [TS]

00:23:58   Spielberg made that movie and why [TS]

00:23:59   shouldn't the work of that younger [TS]

00:24:01   Steven Spielberg be preserved as part of [TS]

00:24:02   our culture as being being erased well [TS]

00:24:05   giving an example of that is that I [TS]

00:24:06   heard an interview with with Spielberg [TS]

00:24:08   and this was a number of years ago and [TS]

00:24:10   they were saying is there anything that [TS]

00:24:11   you would have changed about any of your [TS]

00:24:13   movies and I guess they were talking [TS]

00:24:15   about Close Encounters of the Third Kind [TS]

00:24:18   and by the way I'm going to ruin the end [TS]

00:24:21   of Close Encounters of the Third Kind [TS]

00:24:22   now in case you haven't seen it have you [TS]

00:24:24   not seen a face she's look [TS]

00:24:25   me you haven't seen it oh wow well I'm [TS]

00:24:29   going to ruin it for you I'm sorry this [TS]

00:24:30   is the downside of the job [TS]

00:24:33   occasionally I will ruin movies for you [TS]

00:24:35   on the show uh Spielberg said well I [TS]

00:24:38   wouldn't have had him go at the end I [TS]

00:24:41   feel like as a dad now it would be [TS]

00:24:45   irresponsible for him to go uh because [TS]

00:24:49   he had a family out of you know a family [TS]

00:24:51   wife I'm I do having him go was a very [TS]

00:24:53   irresponsible thing that I as a young [TS]

00:24:55   director without a family didn't see [TS]

00:24:57   didn't think about didn't wasn't really [TS]

00:24:59   aware of now I wouldn't have him go but [TS]

00:25:02   he didn't go back and you know airbrush [TS]

00:25:03   Dreyfuss uh off the the the plank [TS]

00:25:07   walking onto the ship either [TS]

00:25:08   he left it he's maybe he regretted that [TS]

00:25:11   but he said you know what that this was [TS]

00:25:12   the movie that I made another example is [TS]

00:25:16   a jaws where they couldn't get the [TS]

00:25:18   stupid mechanical shark torch at work at [TS]

00:25:19   the time so they didn't have the shark [TS]

00:25:21   in a lot of the shots right and [TS]

00:25:22   everybody said oh you know that's so [TS]

00:25:23   great so suspenseful right because we [TS]

00:25:25   don't get to see the sure but really [TS]

00:25:26   just because they couldn't get the [TS]

00:25:27   special effects to work and he was [TS]

00:25:28   worried about oh god we couldn't get the [TS]

00:25:29   stupid mechanical shark to work if [TS]

00:25:31   people are going to be scared by this [TS]

00:25:32   movie and as it turns out they're even [TS]

00:25:33   more scared by not seeing it so he [TS]

00:25:35   couldn't go back in there the CG shark [TS]

00:25:37   to all the scenes like I always wanted [TS]

00:25:38   that mechanical shark to work him the [TS]

00:25:40   stupid thing wouldn't work and I'm gonna [TS]

00:25:41   go back and edit which is kind of like [TS]

00:25:42   what Lucas did because he was one of [TS]

00:25:44   these special effects to be just so and [TS]

00:25:45   have more aliens and he went back and [TS]

00:25:47   headed them but Steven Spielberg was [TS]

00:25:49   smart enough to realize hey wait a [TS]

00:25:51   second actually it's better without that [TS]

00:25:53   everyone tells me and I find it to be [TS]

00:25:54   true my own experience that not seeing [TS]

00:25:57   the shark is even scarier than seeing it [TS]

00:25:58   so were you going back and adding the CG [TS]

00:26:00   shark condition to modifying the [TS]

00:26:02   original it regardless whether you [TS]

00:26:03   released original it would make the [TS]

00:26:04   movie worse and so he he realizes that's [TS]

00:26:06   the case and does not go back and add [TS]

00:26:07   the CG shark so I found I found the [TS]

00:26:09   article not to you know beat a dead [TS]

00:26:12   horse or anything I found the article [TS]

00:26:13   put it in the show notes but it was for [TS]

00:26:14   the 20th anniversary edition Spielberg [TS]

00:26:16   made some changes to the movie and he [TS]

00:26:18   says some scenes of et got the CGI [TS]

00:26:20   treatment to enhance his expression a [TS]

00:26:22   certain description of Michael's breath [TS]

00:26:23   was removed and most famously the police [TS]

00:26:26   had their weapons replaced with walkie [TS]

00:26:28   talkies and and and and he says here he [TS]

00:26:33   I guess he was uh he was interviewed in [TS]

00:26:35   front of a crowd at [TS]

00:26:37   Raiders the Lost Ark event and he said [TS]

00:26:40   if he needed to go back and change [TS]

00:26:42   things in his movies the director [TS]

00:26:43   responded quote I tried this once and I [TS]

00:26:45   lived to regret it not because a fan [TS]

00:26:47   outraged it but simply because I was [TS]

00:26:48   disappointed in myself I was overly [TS]

00:26:50   sensitive to some of the criticism et [TS]

00:26:52   got from parent groups when was first [TS]

00:26:53   released in 1982 having to do with [TS]

00:26:56   Elliott saying penis breath or the guns [TS]

00:26:58   and then there were certain other [TS]

00:26:59   brilliant but rough around the edges [TS]

00:27:00   close-ups of et that I was felt if [TS]

00:27:02   technology ever evolves to the point [TS]

00:27:04   where I can do some facial enhancement [TS]

00:27:06   for et I'd like to he said it was okay [TS]

00:27:09   for a while but then I realized what I [TS]

00:27:11   had done was I had robbed the people who [TS]

00:27:13   loved each of their memories of et and I [TS]

00:27:15   regretted that which he received a [TS]

00:27:17   massive applause the only contrition [TS]

00:27:19   that I really performed is when et came [TS]

00:27:21   out on DVD for the first time I asked [TS]

00:27:22   Universal when you released this on DVD [TS]

00:27:24   you have to come out for the same price [TS]

00:27:26   of one DVD you have to put two movies in [TS]

00:27:28   the box and one movie will be the 1982 [TS]

00:27:31   version and the other will be the [TS]

00:27:33   digitally enhanced version and then he I [TS]

00:27:35   went on to ask the audience he says I [TS]

00:27:38   know we're coming out with a blu-ray of [TS]

00:27:39   ET if it just came out with one ET the [TS]

00:27:43   1982 et would anyone object to that and [TS]

00:27:46   he says there were loud knows from the [TS]

00:27:48   audience and he said okay then so be it [TS]

00:27:51   yeah see he's at least self-aware enough [TS]

00:27:54   to realize like what's going like a war [TS]

00:27:57   or something [TS]

00:27:58   okay Cessna in the bar you in a Cessna [TS]

00:28:00   I'm not an assessment that's a lawn [TS]

00:28:02   mower [TS]

00:28:03   that's a lawn mower what kind of lawns [TS]

00:28:05   do you have up there n' if you want beer [TS]

00:28:08   I'm pretty much done with the Star Wars [TS]

00:28:10   thing so if you want you can do a [TS]

00:28:11   sponsor before we go into Windows 8 [TS]

00:28:14   that's a mower yes holy cow all right [TS]

00:28:19   campaign monitor they've released a core [TS]

00:28:21   these guys these are guys you go to if [TS]

00:28:23   you want a gorgeous email newsletter [TS]

00:28:26   these are the guys who go because they [TS]

00:28:27   have they've updated their editor so you [TS]

00:28:31   get them the most amazing editor out [TS]

00:28:34   there for creating newsletters and to [TS]

00:28:36   celebrate this release they're giving [TS]

00:28:37   away tons of these these templates they [TS]

00:28:39   went to the best designers on the web [TS]

00:28:41   and they said we want you to make us [TS]

00:28:43   some templates and we'll give them away [TS]

00:28:44   to all of our users for free you go to [TS]

00:28:47   campaign monitor comm slash templates [TS]

00:28:49   you can see these you can also catch a [TS]

00:28:52   demo of their new editor in action at [TS]

00:28:54   the same address and campaign monitor [TS]

00:28:56   you know the think of it as email [TS]

00:28:59   marketing software but it's for web [TS]

00:29:02   designers it's it's all elegant it's all [TS]

00:29:04   beautiful it's a hundred percent rebrand [TS]

00:29:06   Abul make a ton of features you can try [TS]

00:29:08   it for free lots of different plans [TS]

00:29:10   campaign monitor comm check them out [TS]

00:29:14   there's still no no no we're still going [TS]

00:29:17   you want to kill time by talking to [TS]

00:29:19   faith about movie shed and seeing that [TS]

00:29:20   should be done like 10 minutes well the [TS]

00:29:22   one the one thing we've talked about and [TS]

00:29:24   I will I will mention this now we [TS]

00:29:25   haven't really we haven't really have we [TS]

00:29:28   really said this or not but there there [TS]

00:29:30   is a mum you and I enjoy I think a lot [TS]

00:29:32   of the same movies although I'm not as [TS]

00:29:34   much into you know like they're you know [TS]

00:29:37   Dragon Slayer from 1982 as you are um we [TS]

00:29:41   think that you know about that movie [TS]

00:29:43   proves you wrong I've seen the movie I [TS]

00:29:45   remember the little baby dragons I [TS]

00:29:47   remember a shield oh yeah hear that it [TS]

00:29:49   came out and so I'm guessing at the year [TS]

00:29:50   and I was expecting you to tell me you [TS]

00:29:51   know Dan it was 79 you fool uh not to be [TS]

00:29:57   confused with with the Dragon Slayer [TS]

00:29:59   game completely different thing that was [TS]

00:30:03   the laserdisc game where you would have [TS]

00:30:05   your little cartoon character running my [TS]

00:30:08   dragon's lair think for a second what [TS]

00:30:10   was that call dragon's lair lair lair [TS]

00:30:13   that's what I said dragon's lair oh I'm [TS]

00:30:16   missing the you're trying to do a [TS]

00:30:18   some kind of bad pun there Slayer versus [TS]

00:30:22   well the movie was Slayer the movie was [TS]

00:30:24   lair I said not to be confused with [TS]

00:30:25   dragon's lair okay okay all right where [TS]

00:30:28   you add a little cartoon character and [TS]

00:30:29   you would run and you'd supposed to hit [TS]

00:30:31   the jump button at a certain exact [TS]

00:30:34   moment impossible for a you know young [TS]

00:30:38   teenager to perfectly time because you [TS]

00:30:40   had no experience perfectly timing to [TS]

00:30:42   the seeking speed of a laserdisc well [TS]

00:30:45   the thing was jumping not that but was [TS]

00:30:49   there a jump on I thought it was just [TS]

00:30:50   the joystick there was a joystick there [TS]

00:30:51   was a jump button there was an attack [TS]

00:30:52   button there was everything you had [TS]

00:30:54   everything confusing game and it cost 50 [TS]

00:30:57   cents to play now now I think it's a [TS]

00:30:59   good doll er to play the most basic [TS]

00:31:00   video game but back when this game came [TS]

00:31:02   out it would that was a fort that was a [TS]

00:31:06   small fortune for a kid with an [TS]

00:31:07   allowance and then you can you couldn't [TS]

00:31:10   get past the second stage Oh what was I [TS]

00:31:11   supposed to do was I supposed to jump [TS]

00:31:13   was I supposed to attack this is [TS]

00:31:14   supposed to hit left and then you'd see [TS]

00:31:16   the guy who owned the arcade joint come [TS]

00:31:18   over there and play for two hours on on [TS]

00:31:20   a couple quarters as he'd been practiced [TS]

00:31:24   prior to gauntlet you ever played [TS]

00:31:27   gauntlet you're going farther down this [TS]

00:31:31   rathole I guess I play gauntlet who are [TS]

00:31:33   you in gauntlet Valkyrie we shot the [TS]

00:31:37   food I was either the warrior or the [TS]

00:31:40   health usually you know what would be [TS]

00:31:43   cool is if you get the elf [TS]

00:31:44   and you get the boots of speed oh watch [TS]

00:31:48   out man watch out that's you'd run out [TS]

00:31:51   there and grab all that treasure for the [TS]

00:31:54   other warrior be back there you know [TS]

00:31:57   hacking away the ghosts the grunts all [TS]

00:32:00   right so pop pop the stack pop the stack [TS]

00:32:02   here what is a hat I'm trying to tell [TS]

00:32:05   you to clean your programmer I'm trying [TS]

00:32:06   to tell you to to go back if you stack [TS]

00:32:08   frames return from your deeply nested [TS]

00:32:11   subroutine to the higher level thing you [TS]

00:32:13   happy for the longer you got onto this [TS]

00:32:14   topic because that you kill time I don't [TS]

00:32:16   know you said kill time so this is what [TS]

00:32:18   I do I kill the trainer I don't remember [TS]

00:32:20   what the original thing was at this [TS]

00:32:21   point it was something about how you're [TS]

00:32:22   not a oh you're talking about movie us [TS]

00:32:25   doing a movie thing yeah there you go [TS]

00:32:26   Goodfellas yes we're going to talk about [TS]

00:32:29   Goodfellas on an upcoming episode of the [TS]

00:32:31   show and you [TS]

00:32:31   you want some day we will because we [TS]

00:32:34   have things in common [TS]

00:32:35   movies that we like and this is this is [TS]

00:32:38   one of the greatest all-time movies and [TS]

00:32:40   you you suggested early on when we first [TS]

00:32:43   started doing the show I said I said we [TS]

00:32:45   should talk movies too because we have a [TS]

00:32:46   lot of these movies that we have in [TS]

00:32:48   common including Dragon Slayer which I [TS]

00:32:50   know is when your favorites and you you [TS]

00:32:53   had said well Goodfellas we have to talk [TS]

00:32:55   about that and you in fact I think went [TS]

00:32:56   on to say please don't talk about that [TS]

00:32:58   with anybody else until we've had a [TS]

00:33:00   chance to talk about because I have so [TS]

00:33:02   much to say about it and I made you that [TS]

00:33:04   promise I would just like to say Lou we [TS]

00:33:06   should announce it at least now we're we [TS]

00:33:09   do have plans to do this we will do it [TS]

00:33:11   on the show we'll do it on no other show [TS]

00:33:12   I think we already announced that it was [TS]

00:33:14   so long ago people may have forgotten [TS]

00:33:15   but yes I wanted to get dibs on it [TS]

00:33:17   because I was afraid you're going to run [TS]

00:33:18   out of Bond movies and start doing with [TS]

00:33:20   Gruber we will not we will not be doing [TS]

00:33:22   Goodfellas there we will do be doing in [TS]

00:33:24   here I was trying to like plant all [TS]

00:33:25   gangster movies so we could have [TS]

00:33:26   Godfather 1 and 2 after that that's [TS]

00:33:28   great they are you up for it and then [TS]

00:33:30   pretend three doesn't exist and so on [TS]

00:33:32   and so forth are you up for it and we'll [TS]

00:33:33   see how the first one goes it's gotta be [TS]

00:33:36   good Phyllis it's gotta be good fuck yes [TS]

00:33:37   yes I'm all ready to watch in [TS]

00:33:40   preparation for whenever we can arrange [TS]

00:33:42   to record do we do it as part of the [TS]

00:33:44   show or is it a special separate I think [TS]

00:33:46   it's a special separate thing otherwise [TS]

00:33:48   the shuttle go too long okay and some [TS]

00:33:49   people don't want to people complain [TS]

00:33:50   about many topics on hypercritical that [TS]

00:33:54   are not relevant to Apple or technology [TS]

00:33:56   huh even really in certainly Goodfellas [TS]

00:33:58   so it will be a separate separate [TS]

00:34:01   episode yes special you had some ideas [TS]

00:34:04   for like making a special show with some [TS]

00:34:06   weird title that would be you talking [TS]

00:34:08   about movies with the fairies other host [TS]

00:34:10   I would like that I feel like it could [TS]

00:34:13   just be you and me on that show well [TS]

00:34:17   maybe I'm stirring it all right let's uh [TS]

00:34:20   when it was eight windows 8 Metro what [TS]

00:34:24   can you say that hasn't been said at [TS]

00:34:26   this point Oh what is that what is that [TS]

00:34:30   we got leaf blowers now but they're the [TS]

00:34:33   tail-end can you fix this in post or [TS]

00:34:35   should we just wait for leaf blowers to [TS]

00:34:37   go away I think it's adds a little bit [TS]

00:34:38   of character to the to the show I don't [TS]

00:34:40   I'm not taking any of this out all right [TS]

00:34:42   I'll throw in another correction my [TS]

00:34:44   friend John McCoy just points out that [TS]

00:34:45   the original copyright term was 14 years [TS]

00:34:48   not 17 he made a mistake in his article [TS]

00:34:52   so there's a little real-time follow-up [TS]

00:34:54   for you [TS]

00:34:56   a Bernard you have up there and not not [TS]

00:34:59   a big yard at all that's why they'll be [TS]

00:35:01   done shortly you don't know that [TS]

00:35:03   yourself no I did for a while but then [TS]

00:35:05   like at a certain point I spent my whole [TS]

00:35:07   teenage years mowing my parents lawn and [TS]

00:35:11   they had a much bigger lawn than I do [TS]

00:35:13   and a certain point of like you know [TS]

00:35:15   what I'm done mowing lawns I've put in [TS]

00:35:17   my quota of lawn mowing and yeah it's [TS]

00:35:21   much much more economical I'm with you [TS]

00:35:24   to have someone just do it for you done [TS]

00:35:27   with you yeah cuz otherwise I'll be [TS]

00:35:31   spending every single weekend during the [TS]

00:35:32   summer just mowing the lawn and doing [TS]

00:35:34   lawn maintenance all right that's not [TS]

00:35:35   how I want to spend my weekends no I [TS]

00:35:37   hear that this is this is sort of your [TS]

00:35:39   take on the the good of the many [TS]

00:35:41   outweigh the good of the one yeah [TS]

00:35:45   so nuclear are they gone [TS]

00:35:48   can we talk about how they're not gone [TS]

00:35:50   but they're more distant so so Windows 8 [TS]

00:35:52   uh I tried to watch some of the keynote [TS]

00:35:55   and I could not handle the the [TS]

00:35:59   presentation he went on forever I didn't [TS]

00:36:01   like the ball guy is that what [TS]

00:36:02   everything there was two hosts on the [TS]

00:36:04   screen none the actual keynote the one [TS]

00:36:07   like that the first keynote of the day [TS]

00:36:08   there was two hosts who kept going back [TS]

00:36:09   and forth through each other and they [TS]

00:36:10   were just hyperactive and they were [TS]

00:36:11   making me this is making me nervous to [TS]

00:36:13   watch them but so then Gruber linked and [TS]

00:36:17   recommended disliked the afternoon [TS]

00:36:19   keynote or some other thing it was a [TS]

00:36:21   Jensen Harris gave this talk on the [TS]

00:36:24   title was eight traits of great [TS]

00:36:25   metro-style apps and if the title is [TS]

00:36:30   misleading is really just like going [TS]

00:36:31   through the philosophy and underpinnings [TS]

00:36:33   of the entire metro UI and it's 90 [TS]

00:36:35   minutes long it's just one host and it [TS]

00:36:36   is kind of long and boring but I watched [TS]

00:36:39   the whole thing and it does do a good [TS]

00:36:40   job of explaining the UI so while I was [TS]

00:36:43   watching it I was making notes I might [TS]

00:36:45   try to make notes watching the keynote [TS]

00:36:47   but I just couldn't take any more of it [TS]

00:36:48   I watched that whole nine you made a [TS]

00:36:49   video I made lots of random notes so ah [TS]

00:36:52   they're not really that well-organized I [TS]

00:36:54   just kind of go through them in the [TS]

00:36:57   order they appear on my on my note sheet [TS]

00:36:59   here because I think I think Windows 8 [TS]

00:37:01   is very interesting the first thing I [TS]

00:37:03   notice that is I and I noted this Gruber [TS]

00:37:05   as well it isn't kind of weird that [TS]

00:37:08   Microsoft considers it [TS]

00:37:10   a to publicly show broken and buggy code [TS]

00:37:12   and demos like that's something it's [TS]

00:37:15   very different from the Apple world [TS]

00:37:17   where so Apple will show like user [TS]

00:37:19   preview of the upcoming Mac OS 10 line [TS]

00:37:20   in Steve Jobs or whoever Craig federighi [TS]

00:37:24   is that his name will get up on stage [TS]

00:37:26   and demo a pre-release version of the [TS]

00:37:27   operating system acknowledging that it's [TS]

00:37:29   not done yet but everything in that demo [TS]

00:37:31   is going to work and if it doesn't it's [TS]

00:37:34   you know it's notable right so even [TS]

00:37:36   though the whole lesson may not be done [TS]

00:37:38   everything they're going to demo has to [TS]

00:37:39   work just demo the parts that work don't [TS]

00:37:42   demo the parts that don't work and [TS]

00:37:43   rehearse that demo six or seven times so [TS]

00:37:45   that you know yeah when I do this is [TS]

00:37:47   these all these things are going to work [TS]

00:37:49   right whereas Microsoft and all the [TS]

00:37:52   demos that I saw in this age you know [TS]

00:37:54   traits of great metro-style apps and the [TS]

00:37:56   other keynote tons of stuff wasn't [TS]

00:37:58   working there was lots of you know lots [TS]

00:38:01   of failures and lots of people pulling [TS]

00:38:04   at the screen and not doing what they [TS]

00:38:05   was supposed to do on the first second [TS]

00:38:07   or third try I guess it was a little bit [TS]

00:38:09   of that with uh with Craig federighi [TS]

00:38:10   trying to do gestures with his very [TS]

00:38:12   nervous shaky fingers on the the Magic [TS]

00:38:14   Mouse right but you know that's not it's [TS]

00:38:16   not so much as failure and software here [TS]

00:38:17   I saw things happening with people to [TS]

00:38:19   try to touch a button on the screen [TS]

00:38:20   nothing would happen and they would [TS]

00:38:22   reset the device at one point in the [TS]

00:38:23   demo he switches to the Windows desktop [TS]

00:38:25   goes to the task manager and kills a [TS]

00:38:27   process then comes back and it [TS]

00:38:29   relaunches and it works the second you [TS]

00:38:30   know so lots really I mean I'm not [TS]

00:38:33   saying that's bad it's pretty Lea [TS]

00:38:34   software but it's a different it's a [TS]

00:38:35   different philosophy that Microsoft was [TS]

00:38:37   willing to do it do and show anything [TS]

00:38:39   but they also didn't have the discipline [TS]

00:38:42   to make sure that everything shown [TS]

00:38:44   during their demos was guaranteed to [TS]

00:38:46   work because they done it seven times [TS]

00:38:47   before right like maybe they had done it [TS]

00:38:50   before but the coulee didn't go through [TS]

00:38:51   enough rehearsals to know whether this [TS]

00:38:53   stuff was going to work maybe they [TS]

00:38:53   didn't have time so that's just a [TS]

00:38:55   different philosophy I think and it's [TS]

00:38:57   different also WWDC in the sessions like [TS]

00:38:59   not in the keynote but in the actual [TS]

00:39:01   session as a WWC you'll see stuff not [TS]

00:39:03   work and stop crashes they're showing [TS]

00:39:04   some pre-release feature of an operating [TS]

00:39:06   system but this was public this was I [TS]

00:39:08   mean that's the difference I guess with [TS]

00:39:09   Microsoft and everything else is [TS]

00:39:10   everything that this build conference [TS]

00:39:11   seems to be public on they put all the [TS]

00:39:13   video on Channel nine for free I didn't [TS]

00:39:15   have to pay anything I didn't have to [TS]

00:39:16   sign up for any account I could just go [TS]

00:39:17   to the website and look at the video so [TS]

00:39:19   Microsoft is much more open and much [TS]

00:39:20   more willing to show you the unfinished [TS]

00:39:23   bits of [TS]

00:39:24   they're doing so broadly speaking the [TS]

00:39:28   first thing I noted when they were going [TS]

00:39:29   through these Metro apps is you can [TS]

00:39:32   write them in C++ C sharp or JavaScript [TS]

00:39:34   HTML and zamel which is their XML UI [TS]

00:39:37   definition thing that they do now that [TS]

00:39:43   gets back to the k√∂ppen 2010 stuff [TS]

00:39:44   we're saying a look at Microsoft they of [TS]

00:39:46   course they have their C sharp memory [TS]

00:39:48   manage language with the VM and all that [TS]

00:39:50   other stuff and of course they have [TS]

00:39:51   JavaScript HTML which is even higher [TS]

00:39:53   level but there's also C++ and there's [TS]

00:39:55   this whole big idea of a C++ Renaissance [TS]

00:39:58   going on at Microsoft and other [TS]

00:40:00   companies where previously C++ was [TS]

00:40:03   dumped on because it was complicated and [TS]

00:40:06   fragile and annoying but new C++ [TS]

00:40:08   standards to come out adding new [TS]

00:40:10   features and libraries that hide the [TS]

00:40:12   ugly bits for you or standard people the [TS]

00:40:14   community is standardized in some [TS]

00:40:16   libraries that get rid of some of the [TS]

00:40:17   rough edges let you do things that were [TS]

00:40:18   previously too annoying to do yourself [TS]

00:40:21   so it's in typical Microsoft fashion [TS]

00:40:23   they want everything but you can do to [TS]

00:40:25   see bus plus you can do it in c-sharp or [TS]

00:40:26   just kind of in the middle there and you [TS]

00:40:27   can even do in JavaScript you know so [TS]

00:40:30   they're very different from Apple in [TS]

00:40:32   that philosophy is they're not they [TS]

00:40:33   didn't they didn't pick one language [TS]

00:40:34   they have this whole language is [TS]

00:40:35   spanning an entire range I that's come [TS]

00:40:39   becomes interesting when you start [TS]

00:40:40   talking about Windows unarm which [TS]

00:40:41   Microsoft is doing they want to through [TS]

00:40:43   their operating system to run on [TS]

00:40:44   different processor architecture now if [TS]

00:40:46   you write your app in javascript in HTML [TS]

00:40:49   for example you don't have to worry [TS]

00:40:51   about it running on arm because this [TS]

00:40:53   like there's no compiling it will run an [TS]

00:40:55   arm just fine right and c-sharp because [TS]

00:40:58   it runs in the common language on time I [TS]

00:40:59   assume will also have a similar property [TS]

00:41:01   that your application will run an arm as [TS]

00:41:03   long as they can get the common language [TS]

00:41:04   runtime to run an arm right but your C++ [TS]

00:41:06   application you will need to recompile [TS]

00:41:08   if you wanted to run an arm so even [TS]

00:41:13   their own language range is kind of [TS]

00:41:14   spread across the the ease of getting on [TS]

00:41:17   to arm and I think right now people [TS]

00:41:18   didn't even know well so what you know [TS]

00:41:20   windows an arm is that important am I [TS]

00:41:21   going to want to do that is that like [TS]

00:41:23   essential it's kind of a wait-and-see [TS]

00:41:24   attitude so I'm not sure people are [TS]

00:41:26   making language choices based on arm at [TS]

00:41:27   this point till they see what the arm [TS]

00:41:29   stuff is doing so the next thing that [TS]

00:41:32   occurred to me watching this is that all [TS]

00:41:33   these things are showing written [TS]

00:41:35   everything but the key the key issue is [TS]

00:41:38   Microsoft give the devs the developers [TS]

00:41:40   to come over to their platform like [TS]

00:41:43   that's always been the problem with [TS]

00:41:43   Windows Phone they're always trying to [TS]

00:41:45   throw money at people say if you make [TS]

00:41:46   make your app for Windows Phone make [TS]

00:41:48   Angry Birds for Windows Phone here will [TS]

00:41:49   give you tons of money just you know [TS]

00:41:51   make your cool app for Windows Phone [TS]

00:41:53   please please you know anybody they're [TS]

00:41:54   looking for anybody who does a great [TS]

00:41:56   mobile app on another platform to come [TS]

00:41:58   over and make mobile apps for Windows [TS]

00:41:59   Phone Apple didn't have to really do [TS]

00:42:02   that it seems like Apple didn't have to [TS]

00:42:04   do that as much maybe Apple did go out [TS]

00:42:05   to EA and everybody throw money at them [TS]

00:42:07   and get them to make iPhone games [TS]

00:42:08   originally but certainly at this point [TS]

00:42:10   people are going to iOS because that's [TS]

00:42:12   where the money already is whereas [TS]

00:42:13   Microsoft is trying to get them to come [TS]

00:42:14   to the phone and the tablet it's the [TS]

00:42:15   same type of thing you can make this [TS]

00:42:16   great cool platform but if you can't the [TS]

00:42:18   developers to come and make your your [TS]

00:42:20   apps for that platform you're just gonna [TS]

00:42:22   you know it's a it's a chicken-egg thing [TS]

00:42:24   so some of the things they were using [TS]

00:42:26   the presentation to try to get [TS]

00:42:27   developers over is the typical line you [TS]

00:42:29   know some of you are going to get rich [TS]

00:42:30   on this platform you know put the dollar [TS]

00:42:32   signs in their eyes you come right you [TS]

00:42:34   know Metro apps you will get rich some [TS]

00:42:36   of you were going to build apps that are [TS]

00:42:38   used by hundreds and millions of people [TS]

00:42:39   you know because Microsoft has the [TS]

00:42:41   biggest ecosystem that was the big thing [TS]

00:42:43   they were pressing is like we're [TS]

00:42:44   Microsoft you know even though I guess [TS]

00:42:47   even though we're doing nothing in a [TS]

00:42:49   tablet space and we're a distant third [TS]

00:42:51   or fourth in the phone space right we [TS]

00:42:54   hardly we're the biggest ecosystem at [TS]

00:42:56   Ninon they are I guess we got the PC [TS]

00:42:57   platform that's putting our big [TS]

00:42:58   ecosystem but this is a tall you know [TS]

00:43:01   they may have the biggest ego system [TS]

00:43:02   there but they're not the biggest [TS]

00:43:03   ecosystem of users paying for downloaded [TS]

00:43:05   apps or for devs creating them right [TS]

00:43:07   they don't have anything in that space [TS]

00:43:08   you know they sell their apps and [TS]

00:43:10   shrink-wrap and licenses to corporations [TS]

00:43:12   they're not they're not selling it to [TS]

00:43:14   individual users who are downloading [TS]

00:43:16   them and in real time they don't have [TS]

00:43:18   millions of credit card bearing accounts [TS]

00:43:20   and people who are trained to buy things [TS]

00:43:21   digitally from them or anything like [TS]

00:43:22   that uh-huh [TS]

00:43:24   another phrase is you want to get in on [TS]

00:43:25   the ground floor you know Microsoft [TS]

00:43:27   wants a gold rush in telling you you [TS]

00:43:28   really want to get on the ground floor [TS]

00:43:29   be the first guy to make the great app [TS]

00:43:31   for this [TS]

00:43:32   another point they were hammering was we [TS]

00:43:34   have a more very more varied devices [TS]

00:43:36   than any other ecosystem because they [TS]

00:43:38   had that big display in the stage where [TS]

00:43:39   they showed Windows 8 running on a big [TS]

00:43:41   giant PC and then a smaller PC and then [TS]

00:43:44   a big tablet and then a smaller tablet [TS]

00:43:45   like they were showing Windows 8 [TS]

00:43:47   commends this whole huge range of [TS]

00:43:48   devices you know we have the biggest [TS]

00:43:50   ecosystem [TS]

00:43:51   I don't know if I would have leaned on [TS]

00:43:53   as much as they did because I can't [TS]

00:43:54   imagine anybody was on an Android [TS]

00:43:55   developer looking dead and going oh [TS]

00:43:57   great more fragmentation no I don't will [TS]

00:44:00   tell me how many devices you have right [TS]

00:44:02   I'm not quite sure what that's a big [TS]

00:44:04   selling point for developers like I'm [TS]

00:44:06   gonna make my app work on that entire [TS]

00:44:07   range of stuff that's on the screen [TS]

00:44:09   alright so if you've seen the Metro [TS]

00:44:12   applications just looking to screenshots [TS]

00:44:18   before I'd watch your videos I'm like [TS]

00:44:19   these things are ridiculously simplified [TS]

00:44:22   no there's almost nothing on the screen [TS]

00:44:24   no nope no controls no typical chrome [TS]

00:44:28   stuff and like not even a lot of content [TS]

00:44:30   right it's just just nothing right I was [TS]

00:44:32   thinking how much more simplified they [TS]

00:44:34   are even then Apple's latest revision of [TS]

00:44:38   simplified desktop apps right so like [TS]

00:44:40   the address book when they changed that [TS]

00:44:41   stupid book thing right but but they [TS]

00:44:43   simplified the applications as two panes [TS]

00:44:45   instead of three or iCal where they hid [TS]

00:44:47   the little stuff under pop-ups that used [TS]

00:44:48   to be sticking out on calendars looks [TS]

00:44:50   like a big month calendar that's it they [TS]

00:44:52   were trying to simplify that application [TS]

00:44:53   that's nothing compared to this kind of [TS]

00:44:55   simple Gatien this is just remove [TS]

00:44:57   everything so I don't know if they've [TS]

00:44:59   just leapt ahead of where Apple was in [TS]

00:45:03   terms of simplification because the [TS]

00:45:04   trend is in a clear direction there so [TS]

00:45:06   let's just jump way it like if Apple is [TS]

00:45:08   slowly simplifying these applications [TS]

00:45:09   where you know forget we're gonna leave [TS]

00:45:11   them the dust we're gonna super [TS]

00:45:12   simplified stuff ah it was making me [TS]

00:45:16   think okay I'll go back to the [TS]

00:45:18   aesthetics in a little bit but it isn't [TS]

00:45:20   jimana to uh note that they seem to [TS]

00:45:24   leapfrog things in simplification but [TS]

00:45:26   that's a good thing or not we'll say ah [TS]

00:45:29   so in the UI once you see start seeing [TS]

00:45:31   the thing in use all right I remember [TS]

00:45:35   what made me think of as the iPad [TS]

00:45:36   introduction so the iPad came out of [TS]

00:45:39   room stalking well Apple's gonna make a [TS]

00:45:40   tablet what's it gonna be like we all [TS]

00:45:41   held the iPhone we wanted to make a [TS]

00:45:42   tablet and there was lots of fantasies [TS]

00:45:44   about well there was the hardware on one [TS]

00:45:45   side which I think everyone more or less [TS]

00:45:48   knew what hardware was going to be in [TS]

00:45:49   the week or so leading up the thing I [TS]

00:45:52   liked I think it did about post about it [TS]

00:45:54   on ours where I tried to predict what [TS]

00:45:56   the hardware would be and it was exactly [TS]

00:45:57   what everyone thought it would be but [TS]

00:45:59   the software people didn't know but [TS]

00:46:01   there was speculation that maybe would [TS]

00:46:03   be Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:46:05   well an iOS or what kind of iOS would it [TS]

00:46:07   be just like that what anybody was [TS]

00:46:09   talking about Mac os10 nothing but the [TS]

00:46:11   people but the reason people were think [TS]

00:46:12   about Mac os10 because they would be [TS]

00:46:14   like okay well sure iOS or iPhone or [TS]

00:46:16   less is great on the phone but this is a [TS]

00:46:19   bigger screen so I don't don't you need [TS]

00:46:20   to make right isn't it more like a [TS]

00:46:22   computer yeah yeah you would make [TS]

00:46:24   different choices in terms of how you [TS]

00:46:25   use screen so it's like the decisions [TS]

00:46:27   you made when the screen was tiny and [TS]

00:46:28   fit in your hand or should be different [TS]

00:46:30   than the ones you make when it's big so [TS]

00:46:32   that's why people say well Mabel they [TS]

00:46:33   just put the full fledge mac OS x you [TS]

00:46:35   could fit it on that size screen Ino is [TS]

00:46:37   no good for touch about like I'm you [TS]

00:46:39   know I don't I don't think Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:46:41   being on it had really any Koreans but [TS]

00:46:42   what I was thinking about was what are [TS]

00:46:44   they gonna do to iOS to adapt it to this [TS]

00:46:47   bigger screen and I remember being very [TS]

00:46:49   disappointed when they showed it on the [TS]

00:46:51   stage and the home screen was the exact [TS]

00:46:53   same grid of icons just more widely [TS]

00:46:55   spaced right like if someone had shown [TS]

00:46:57   you that as as a faked up spy photo of [TS]

00:47:00   like here's a leaked photo of the iPad [TS]

00:47:01   maybe like you just took a picture of [TS]

00:47:03   the the iPhone springboard and spread [TS]

00:47:05   the icons out there's no way Apple would [TS]

00:47:06   do that they're gonna come up with a new [TS]

00:47:07   interface that's appropriate for the [TS]

00:47:09   tablet nope it's springboard with the [TS]

00:47:11   icon spread out more or less you know [TS]

00:47:13   and I was very disappointed that Apple [TS]

00:47:16   didn't try to think about how they could [TS]

00:47:17   be different on a tablet size screen [TS]

00:47:19   right and when I saw that decision again [TS]

00:47:22   again back to the past we did about [TS]

00:47:24   Steve Jobs and how we have no idea what [TS]

00:47:26   Steve Jobs actually does so we can just [TS]

00:47:28   assign to him whatever decisions we [TS]

00:47:30   think but I thought that decision [TS]

00:47:31   smelled like Steve Jobs and in the [TS]

00:47:32   imaginary Steve Jobs in my head I [TS]

00:47:34   imagine him being shown seven or eight [TS]

00:47:38   different alternatives for like what the [TS]

00:47:40   interface on the iPad would be like and [TS]

00:47:44   him looking at all them and going yeah [TS]

00:47:47   why can't me just do a grid of icons [TS]

00:47:48   like the phone people people like that [TS]

00:47:50   and it works why can't we just do that I [TS]

00:47:51   don't understand why you don't why don't [TS]

00:47:53   we just make it a grid of oh god that's [TS]

00:47:54   it it's just gonna be a grid of icons [TS]

00:47:55   who show me that I can't you see him [TS]

00:47:57   doing that isn't that his type about it [TS]

00:47:59   like thinking this why you show me all [TS]

00:48:01   these fancy wizzy interfaces but I don't [TS]

00:48:03   know what the alternatives possibly [TS]

00:48:04   could have been it's like but well [TS]

00:48:06   didn't we already solve this the iPhone [TS]

00:48:07   just use the creative icons people like [TS]

00:48:08   that do it alright so we have a grid of [TS]

00:48:11   icons uh Microsoft did not do that [TS]

00:48:15   Microsoft well I don't know you could [TS]

00:48:17   say Microsoft to me to scale the version [TS]

00:48:18   of what it's got [TS]

00:48:19   Windows Phone but certainly it's not [TS]

00:48:21   just a grid of icons it's it's a it's a [TS]

00:48:23   weird you call it a mosaic of tiles not [TS]

00:48:26   emotion in practice it's very hot very [TS]

00:48:29   different uh using the thing with the [TS]

00:48:33   lock screens in Windows 8 [TS]

00:48:34   did you see that in the videos I'm [TS]

00:48:36   thinking about that I don't think I saw [TS]

00:48:38   that one to describe it how does that [TS]

00:48:39   work so instead of you know an apple you [TS]

00:48:41   slide the little yeah thing to the side [TS]

00:48:43   to get your thing well they have is a [TS]

00:48:46   gesture based thing where you have like [TS]

00:48:47   a big desktop pattern but a big a big [TS]

00:48:50   photo that's the background of your [TS]

00:48:52   thing so they're always putting pictures [TS]

00:48:53   of the kids or something on there and [TS]

00:48:54   then you make a series of gestures on [TS]

00:48:56   the picture of your kid to launch it [TS]

00:48:57   that's right yeah they're like poking [TS]

00:48:59   the left thigh poking the right eye [TS]

00:49:01   slide on the smiley face in your thing [TS]

00:49:02   opens right um someone did a logo like [TS]

00:49:05   here's our company logo and I swipe [TS]

00:49:07   across the top and logo and then trace [TS]

00:49:08   these little lines in the logo and I get [TS]

00:49:09   it unlocked uh I don't think that's I [TS]

00:49:13   mean the security of those things is all [TS]

00:49:15   subject to people looking at your screen [TS]

00:49:17   at the right angle and seeing where your [TS]

00:49:18   finger grease trails lead and to figure [TS]

00:49:20   out how to unlock your thing and I could [TS]

00:49:23   imagine it being frustrated frustrating [TS]

00:49:25   if they didn't make it like if they [TS]

00:49:26   didn't add a lot of slop in there where [TS]

00:49:28   you don't have to be so precise so you [TS]

00:49:29   didn't exactly hit your daughter's pupil [TS]

00:49:31   so we're not gonna open it and you [TS]

00:49:32   sitting there stabbing your kid in the [TS]

00:49:33   face repeatedly trying to get so it's [TS]

00:49:34   got to be really permissive but that [TS]

00:49:36   also makes this security not so great [TS]

00:49:38   not that like you know your numeric code [TS]

00:49:40   one two three four on your phone is that [TS]

00:49:42   great either but it just struck me is [TS]

00:49:45   kind of weird as another thing I can't [TS]

00:49:46   imagine Apple doing this I just you just [TS]

00:49:48   poke your kid in the face few times to [TS]

00:49:50   unlock your thing is not great but I can [TS]

00:49:51   also see Steve Jobs trying to pimp that [TS]

00:49:53   as a great feature so I could go either [TS]

00:49:54   way [TS]

00:49:54   ah so the look of the thing after [TS]

00:49:59   staring at Windows 8 for like an hour or [TS]

00:50:01   two hours and then looking back at an [TS]

00:50:05   iPad or an iPhone [TS]

00:50:06   it makes iOS look old like the same way [TS]

00:50:10   that when a new version of Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:50:12   comes out like maybe you skip like three [TS]

00:50:13   versions and go back to like ten point [TS]

00:50:15   three or ten point two and look at you [TS]

00:50:16   know my god how do we even look at this [TS]

00:50:18   with the pinstripes and the drawers and [TS]

00:50:20   all it's just it's just hideous right [TS]

00:50:21   well if you look at Metro for a long [TS]

00:50:24   time then you look back at iOS it seems [TS]

00:50:25   like busy and has lots of stuff and lots [TS]

00:50:28   of you know they call it Chrome but you [TS]

00:50:30   know the these little [TS]

00:50:32   ashle rendered buttons in the toolbars [TS]

00:50:35   on your iPad apps it's not a lot of UI [TS]

00:50:37   but like oh they're made to look like [TS]

00:50:38   it's kind of like recessed underneath a [TS]

00:50:40   little you know the toolbar is like a [TS]

00:50:42   little metal shell and there's a little [TS]

00:50:43   recessed button under it with a little [TS]

00:50:44   shadow on and all that shading and it's [TS]

00:50:46   like it looks a little clunky after [TS]

00:50:48   you've seen just this sort of clean [TS]

00:50:50   empty regions of color that they use in [TS]

00:50:53   Windows 8 when the Metro interface in [TS]

00:50:56   Windows 8 I I don't know if that means [TS]

00:51:00   anything but it does it's an impression [TS]

00:51:02   that struck me after going from one [TS]

00:51:04   environment into the other like usually [TS]

00:51:06   that happens to Apple doing it to itself [TS]

00:51:08   now here's someone potentially doing it [TS]

00:51:10   to Apple I'll have to see them in real [TS]

00:51:13   life to know whether that's actually the [TS]

00:51:14   case but on the screen it looks less [TS]

00:51:16   like a computer let's put it that way it [TS]

00:51:18   looks less like a computer then then iOS [TS]

00:51:21   or the Mac does and that's been Apple's [TS]

00:51:24   trend is to make everything they do look [TS]

00:51:25   less like a computer but this looks [TS]

00:51:27   really less like a computer I thought it [TS]

00:51:31   was notable that they have they were [TS]

00:51:32   making a big deal out of the fact that [TS]

00:51:33   all their text base lines are aligned [TS]

00:51:35   like you know like within a print [TS]

00:51:38   publication when you line the base line [TS]

00:51:39   so the and also in a grid system and web [TS]

00:51:42   design type thing that's something that [TS]

00:51:43   Microsoft would never even acknowledge [TS]

00:51:45   the existence of they the pre Windows 8 [TS]

00:51:47   Microsoft here they were in a public [TS]

00:51:49   presentation making a big point of it [TS]

00:51:51   and saying you don't have to worry we'll [TS]

00:51:52   take care of this for you but it's [TS]

00:51:54   really important because look how this [TS]

00:51:56   lines up from screen to screen and you [TS]

00:51:57   know the same reason you do it in print [TS]

00:51:58   it's not a revolution to figure this out [TS]

00:52:01   it's a revolution for Microsoft for them [TS]

00:52:03   actually thinking about stuff like this [TS]

00:52:04   for a change now as for the actual [TS]

00:52:09   operation of this thing if you haven't [TS]

00:52:12   watched the video in the show notes you [TS]

00:52:14   should pause the thing now and go watch [TS]

00:52:15   the video for 90 minutes and then sleep [TS]

00:52:17   and come back and listen to so you can [TS]

00:52:18   talk more watch it while you sleep [TS]

00:52:21   yeah also I'm not going to describe [TS]

00:52:22   everything that's in it song assume you [TS]

00:52:23   already seen it but my impression of the [TS]

00:52:26   Start screen which is that big mosaic of [TS]

00:52:28   icons is it yeah it doesn't look like a [TS]

00:52:31   computer UI what it looks like to me [TS]

00:52:33   well before I say this let me say what [TS]

00:52:34   does it look like to you [TS]

00:52:35   let me just this ifs no one told you [TS]

00:52:37   that this was Windows 8 or anything how [TS]

00:52:39   you just saw a screenshot or a picture [TS]

00:52:41   of you know that thing what does it look [TS]

00:52:42   like to you what other existing things [TS]

00:52:44   that you know of all right [TS]

00:52:46   does it look like do you mean besides [TS]

00:52:47   the windows phone or is that the answer [TS]

00:52:49   now besides the windows one yeah other [TS]

00:52:52   thing does it look like maybe I'm dumb [TS]

00:52:54   what does it read what does it remind [TS]

00:52:55   you of [TS]

00:52:56   none an on computer thing an on computer [TS]

00:53:01   thing I all I know is computers so maybe [TS]

00:53:05   it's just me that when I when I look at [TS]

00:53:06   it what it looks like to me is a page in [TS]

00:53:09   a catalog like you know a nicely laid [TS]

00:53:12   out sort of avant-garde page and a [TS]

00:53:15   catalog for clothes like an [TS]

00:53:16   advertisement like an IKEA catalog yeah [TS]

00:53:19   not not so much like a bunch of ads but [TS]

00:53:21   like here are wares for sale we have [TS]

00:53:24   these lovely dishes and here these happy [TS]

00:53:27   people were in clothing you can buy and [TS]

00:53:28   some text alongside on a target [TS]

00:53:30   advertisement yeah it looks like a page [TS]

00:53:32   in a catalog and if you look at those [TS]

00:53:36   screenshots like they always put the [TS]

00:53:38   beautiful happy people laughing and the [TS]

00:53:41   the beautifully photographed merchandise [TS]

00:53:43   or the big close up of a flower or some [TS]

00:53:46   other thing you know and I look at that [TS]

00:53:48   and it's they're nice-looking pictures [TS]

00:53:50   but what it strikes me is sort of [TS]

00:53:51   content free content like the image [TS]

00:53:56   looks nice but what information is it [TS]

00:53:58   conveying to me or do I have to read the [TS]

00:53:59   text right and the second thing I [TS]

00:54:02   thought of is that's how it looks in [TS]

00:54:05   their demos but when the user gets this [TS]

00:54:07   thing is that screen going to look so [TS]

00:54:08   hot when it's not filled with super high [TS]

00:54:10   quality high-res photos of models right [TS]

00:54:13   when it's when it's like an avatar [TS]

00:54:14   that's originally 64 by 64 and it's been [TS]

00:54:18   scaled up to 512 we're just like you [TS]

00:54:20   know we're not all models you can have [TS]

00:54:22   pictures of your friends and family who [TS]

00:54:23   are not as attractive and they will not [TS]

00:54:25   be nicely lit are these these pictures [TS]

00:54:26   of like I could have done like dinner [TS]

00:54:29   plates and other stuff like [TS]

00:54:30   professionally photographed expensive [TS]

00:54:33   things mmm where you're gonna have [TS]

00:54:35   pictures of your stuff that's just ugly [TS]

00:54:37   with the flash burn on it take picture [TS]

00:54:39   of it on you I don't like that screen is [TS]

00:54:42   going to look very different when it's [TS]

00:54:44   when it's you and when it's not [TS]

00:54:46   Microsoft's marketing department filling [TS]

00:54:48   that ah and I still question even in [TS]

00:54:51   that case whether those images convey [TS]

00:54:53   any information the main thing that I [TS]

00:54:56   think is a detriment to those things is [TS]

00:55:00   that [TS]

00:55:01   this sounds dumb but like so they kept [TS]

00:55:03   making point of than not being icons [TS]

00:55:04   that means they're not iconic it's it is [TS]

00:55:07   harder to identify items because when [TS]

00:55:10   you're looking for you know I'm looking [TS]

00:55:12   for words with friends and welcome to [TS]

00:55:13   the icon with the yellow square with the [TS]

00:55:15   little letters on it like it looks [TS]

00:55:16   different than the other icons yeah [TS]

00:55:17   they're all the same shape which is a [TS]

00:55:19   bummer on the iPhone but color scheme [TS]

00:55:20   wise and position wise you know it it's [TS]

00:55:24   easier for me to fly another position I [TS]

00:55:26   think they're doing okay with because [TS]

00:55:27   they do seem to have a set set of [TS]

00:55:29   screens and you can drag them wherever [TS]

00:55:30   you want then make them whatever size [TS]

00:55:31   you want they don't move on their own so [TS]

00:55:33   I think position they're okay but you're [TS]

00:55:35   still glancing to look for that yellow [TS]

00:55:36   thing to confirm where you're going [TS]

00:55:37   especially if it's not an app that use [TS]

00:55:38   all the time and unlike the main screen [TS]

00:55:40   right and I guess their Microsoft [TS]

00:55:43   argument for this so John is that it's [TS]

00:55:45   it should be about the content don't [TS]

00:55:46   think about the apps then you have to [TS]

00:55:49   find the thing to tap you have to find [TS]

00:55:52   the thing right you could quickly find [TS]

00:55:54   your newsreader right right doesn't it [TS]

00:55:56   and if the if the it like if you [TS]

00:55:58   remember the position you might be okay [TS]

00:56:00   but if you don't know what screen you're [TS]

00:56:01   on I'll I'm screen number three so I [TS]

00:56:03   know it's always in the lower right [TS]

00:56:04   you'll look in the lower right to try to [TS]

00:56:05   confirm that that's the newsreader and [TS]

00:56:07   it will be some random picture of some [TS]

00:56:09   article but that's another thing if [TS]

00:56:11   you're gonna do the newsreader like [TS]

00:56:11   here's our newsreader look at all these [TS]

00:56:12   pictures the articles I read don't have [TS]

00:56:14   beautiful high-res photos of nice things [TS]

00:56:17   attached to every single article in the [TS]

00:56:19   RSS feed I don't know what's going to [TS]

00:56:21   show for typical RSS feeds that are text [TS]

00:56:22   only or have ugly images but anyway like [TS]

00:56:25   how will you know that's the RSS reader [TS]

00:56:27   without reading the text it's not iconic [TS]

00:56:30   you can't pick it out quickly now they [TS]

00:56:32   really hammered on this point this is a [TS]

00:56:34   quote from the thing icons are [TS]

00:56:35   yesterday's ways of representing apps [TS]

00:56:37   they were constantly slamming Apple iPad [TS]

00:56:39   and iOS s I think they should gives us [TS]

00:56:41   their competitor right you know go after [TS]

00:56:42   the big dog right but they were never [TS]

00:56:44   named them they would never say an iPad [TS]

00:56:46   never say iOS never say iPhone they [TS]

00:56:48   would just make Illusionist no but we [TS]

00:56:49   all know who they're talking about so [TS]

00:56:50   icons are yesterday's way of [TS]

00:56:52   representing apps they're antiquities [TS]

00:56:54   are all quotes they're antiquated [TS]

00:56:55   they're not alive they're not [TS]

00:56:56   interesting they're not helpful well [TS]

00:56:59   yesterday's way of quoting apps is now [TS]

00:57:02   just like sigh we're the future they're [TS]

00:57:03   the past fine [TS]

00:57:03   they're antiquated again they're old [TS]

00:57:05   they're not alive that's true they're [TS]

00:57:07   usually not moving around unless you [TS]

00:57:09   have the little shaky icon mode on right [TS]

00:57:10   they're not interesting [TS]

00:57:13   probably they're not interesting like I [TS]

00:57:14   mean it gets interns I hate my [TS]

00:57:16   interesting they're not helpful [TS]

00:57:17   I would draw the line there they're [TS]

00:57:18   definitely helpful you know and they're [TS]

00:57:19   easily identifiable and they don't [TS]

00:57:21   change appearance without you knowing [TS]

00:57:23   that they're changing appearance I'll [TS]

00:57:24   give you update an app you know you're [TS]

00:57:25   doing that on your own right so here's [TS]

00:57:28   another quote the best tiles is what [TS]

00:57:30   they call little squares the best tiles [TS]

00:57:31   are live with activity and they draw you [TS]

00:57:33   in I don't really want things in my [TS]

00:57:36   interface to be alive with activity [TS]

00:57:38   right it's movement draws the eye the [TS]

00:57:41   old lizard brain avoid the saber-toothed [TS]

00:57:43   tiger predator prey thing movement you [TS]

00:57:47   can't help it movement draws your eye [TS]

00:57:49   it affects even you can you know yeah [TS]

00:57:52   it's just a physiological fact of life [TS]

00:57:54   and I usually don't want my eye draw [TS]

00:57:57   until I go that little tiles change you [TS]

00:57:58   know this tiles changing oh that's how [TS]

00:58:00   it I don't want my interface to be quote [TS]

00:58:02   alive with activity now whether it's raw [TS]

00:58:04   inner I bet I better draw you in in a [TS]

00:58:07   store display store displays always have [TS]

00:58:08   the you know it come over here look at [TS]

00:58:10   this I mean Apple store demos are filled [TS]

00:58:11   with motion they they show those little [TS]

00:58:12   videos on the on the devices to draw you [TS]

00:58:15   and as I come look at this iPad look at [TS]

00:58:16   this movie people moving around and [TS]

00:58:18   happy people smiling and you know but in [TS]

00:58:21   day to day use I really don't want my [TS]

00:58:23   interface to be alive with activity I [TS]

00:58:25   should preface all this by saying this [TS]

00:58:28   is just from looking at a video I have [TS]

00:58:29   no idea how it's going to be in real [TS]

00:58:30   life but looking at the video these are [TS]

00:58:31   the thoughts that are occurring to me [TS]

00:58:32   it's this kind of stream of [TS]

00:58:33   consciousness type of thing but you know [TS]

00:58:36   sorry but I don't think that I'm [TS]

00:58:37   condemning this interface without ever [TS]

00:58:38   having used it I'm just going on what I [TS]

00:58:40   have I haven't used it I haven't gotten [TS]

00:58:41   to use it I'm just trying to think about [TS]

00:58:43   how this is going to work out in real [TS]

00:58:44   life [TS]

00:58:46   so one of the points the other points [TS]

00:58:48   they made is that these these animations [TS]

00:58:49   are constantly summoning people back [TS]

00:58:51   into your app when something new happens [TS]

00:58:53   and they give a bunch of examples of [TS]

00:58:54   what this animation can do can remind [TS]

00:58:59   you of something that's supposed to [TS]

00:59:00   happen like like maybe supposed to be an [TS]

00:59:01   appointment ever can draw you in to [TS]

00:59:04   being interested in going to that [TS]

00:59:05   application you can show you what's [TS]

00:59:06   coming up next like scheduling [TS]

00:59:07   application it can show you stuff that [TS]

00:59:08   happened while you're away oh oh all [TS]

00:59:12   sorts of things like that reasons why [TS]

00:59:13   you'd want your child to be alive with [TS]

00:59:16   activity and interesting now some of [TS]

00:59:18   these have good points about an [TS]

00:59:19   application is not running giving you [TS]

00:59:21   information so you don't have to launch [TS]

00:59:23   it you can just look at the tile like [TS]

00:59:24   the weather app you have the one [TS]

00:59:25   the weather app what if it shows the [TS]

00:59:26   little sunny rainy thing and some [TS]

00:59:28   temperatures and a three-day forecast [TS]

00:59:29   right on the top you don't need to [TS]

00:59:30   launch it and this is a big complaint [TS]

00:59:31   with like the pre iOS 5 lock screen [TS]

00:59:33   where you didn't have any good [TS]

00:59:34   information there except for the time [TS]

00:59:35   and maybe a notification or two um and [TS]

00:59:39   the fact that all you can do is bad your [TS]

00:59:41   icons show that hey to think new things [TS]

00:59:43   happen but you don't know if this is a [TS]

00:59:44   new email from someone important or it's [TS]

00:59:45   just in your spam stuff like that so [TS]

00:59:47   there are very useful innovations in the [TS]

00:59:50   tile concept but this this push to be [TS]

00:59:54   alive with activity and just the ones [TS]

00:59:56   they showed are currently cycling [TS]

00:59:57   through these seven pictures of models [TS]

00:59:59   or pictures of [TS]

00:59:59   or pictures of [TS]

01:00:00   love things that's not useful that's [TS]

01:00:02   that's distracting that's I guess it's [TS]

01:00:04   good for a demo but I would not want [TS]

01:00:06   that on my tablet I rather have it stack [TS]

01:00:09   updating with interesting information [TS]

01:00:10   not scrolling this across they're all [TS]

01:00:12   anime like the pictures don't just [TS]

01:00:14   change they like fade from one to the [TS]

01:00:15   other scroll up words like blinds [TS]

01:00:17   changing or whatever I bet you like the [TS]

01:00:20   elk our center face a little bit better [TS]

01:00:21   the water L cars interface L cars yeah [TS]

01:00:25   like Star Trek I don't even know what [TS]

01:00:27   that it's a you you're way beyond my [TS]

01:00:29   Star Trek knowledge I am NOT I'm not a [TS]

01:00:31   Star Trek nerd [TS]

01:00:32   I know think I know the interface [TS]

01:00:34   talking about them with the belt those [TS]

01:00:35   sort of like solid lines with making [TS]

01:00:37   curved rectangle little skinny fonts and [TS]

01:00:39   yeah so another point that was made [TS]

01:00:43   about these tiles is it they are single [TS]

01:00:45   hit targets it's not like you can [TS]

01:00:47   interact they're not like little apps [TS]

01:00:48   like you know when you go to dashboard [TS]

01:00:49   you have a widget and there's a bunch of [TS]

01:00:51   controls on it and buttons and things [TS]

01:00:52   and you can fiddle with them even though [TS]

01:00:55   these tiles are filled with stuff and [TS]

01:00:56   animating and have lots of text and [TS]

01:00:58   other stuff there's just one hit target [TS]

01:01:00   there you put your finger on and the [TS]

01:01:02   whole thing is selected you can't [TS]

01:01:03   interact with it in tile form so they're [TS]

01:01:05   trying to keep things simple and every [TS]

01:01:07   site you can look at it but it's not [TS]

01:01:08   interactive you have to punch the app to [TS]

01:01:10   do something with it now all of this [TS]

01:01:15   sort of making iOS look old not looking [TS]

01:01:19   like a computer stuff is most [TS]

01:01:23   interesting because lurking underneath [TS]

01:01:26   all that stuff is the Windows desktop [TS]

01:01:28   occasionally they pull away the covers [TS]

01:01:30   you're like oh my god what is that well [TS]

01:01:31   and that was the question I actually had [TS]

01:01:33   is it is it beneath it or is it a [TS]

01:01:35   separate ad that gets launched it's [TS]

01:01:37   semantics of you know is it always gonna [TS]

01:01:39   it well I mean you define it the key [TS]

01:01:41   point that I think is that it it's not [TS]

01:01:43   always running like that environment is [TS]

01:01:45   not always running right all right so [TS]

01:01:47   when it is running is it is underneath [TS]

01:01:49   on top of blob was just you know it's [TS]

01:01:51   the same Windows kernel that's running [TS]

01:01:54   everything it's just you know there are [TS]

01:01:56   very few processes in this Windows [TS]

01:01:57   environment is one of them so the point [TS]

01:02:01   I make aesthetically is when they when [TS]

01:02:02   they pull back that curtain and show [TS]

01:02:04   show the hideous underbelly of Windows [TS]

01:02:08   like they were showing all this nice [TS]

01:02:09   stuff where everything is aligned all [TS]

01:02:10   the text base lines are line [TS]

01:02:12   and all the the graphics are beautiful [TS]

01:02:14   and the typography is beautiful and as [TS]

01:02:17   animations and everything is smooth and [TS]

01:02:19   evenly spaced out and then they had to [TS]

01:02:21   jump back for a second to show like [TS]

01:02:22   here's where you're going to build your [TS]

01:02:23   apps this is Visual Studio right and he [TS]

01:02:25   shows Visual Studio is like an open [TS]

01:02:27   dialog box and it like your back to the [TS]

01:02:29   world where everything is poorly spaced [TS]

01:02:30   all that the fonts are tiny and skinny [TS]

01:02:33   and invisible and just the controls are [TS]

01:02:35   ugly and this gradients everywhere just [TS]

01:02:37   the spacing alone it just kills me if [TS]

01:02:38   you look at a window screenshot the [TS]

01:02:40   controls and the white space around them [TS]

01:02:41   is just like arbitrary it's like someone [TS]

01:02:43   puked a bunch of controls onto your [TS]

01:02:44   screen certainly visual studios like [TS]

01:02:46   that too you know that's it's such a [TS]

01:02:49   contrast between that world where [TS]

01:02:51   Microsoft was like mad make sure the [TS]

01:02:52   controls are there make sure you can do [TS]

01:02:54   this and I don't care if that graphic is [TS]

01:02:55   from ten years ago and it's 16 colors [TS]

01:02:57   and throw a grating on that yeah it [TS]

01:02:59   looks nice that's all the people like [TS]

01:03:00   gradients now maybe reflection you make [TS]

01:03:02   it blurry and transparent anyway just [TS]

01:03:03   just throw it all on there that world is [TS]

01:03:05   so different from this Metro world yeah [TS]

01:03:08   and it's such a contrast when you see [TS]

01:03:09   them on the same device and I don't know [TS]

01:03:12   I couldn't tell if the guy was disgusted [TS]

01:03:14   to have to show Visual Studio since like [TS]

01:03:17   he was like gung-ho for like I'm mr. [TS]

01:03:19   Metro he was very enthusiastic about [TS]

01:03:21   Metro and the way things should be done [TS]

01:03:22   uh he seems like he would fit right in [TS]

01:03:24   an apple yeah right yeah then he had to [TS]

01:03:26   show that other thing that's underneath [TS]

01:03:28   there ah now he was showing Visual [TS]

01:03:31   Studio pieces like here's when you build [TS]

01:03:32   a metro wrap check this out look this is [TS]

01:03:34   what you start with you start with a [TS]

01:03:35   template a template has a bunch of boxes [TS]

01:03:37   laid out with you and all your text base [TS]

01:03:38   lines already aligned this is where the [TS]

01:03:40   title of your app goes and you know air [TS]

01:03:41   your margins and so and so forth and [TS]

01:03:45   obviously like I mean Xcode has [TS]

01:03:47   templates to it templates are like to [TS]

01:03:49   help you get started it's not as if [TS]

01:03:50   you're locked into doing things [TS]

01:03:51   according this template this is trying [TS]

01:03:52   to give you a leg up but when I see that [TS]

01:03:54   I have to think like oh is that is that [TS]

01:03:57   going to be kind of constraining for [TS]

01:03:58   people or like because is your choice to [TS]

01:04:00   use one of these templates or just go [TS]

01:04:02   all on your own and make a crappy thing [TS]

01:04:03   so when I see templates I'm like does [TS]

01:04:05   that mean is going to be a bunch of [TS]

01:04:06   cookie cutter applications all using [TS]

01:04:07   this template that all look exactly the [TS]

01:04:09   same except for the content of the tiles [TS]

01:04:11   you know text to your image here a bunch [TS]

01:04:12   of tiles you swipe back and forth on is [TS]

01:04:15   that going to be it that it made me [TS]

01:04:19   think that whoever came up with all [TS]

01:04:21   these templates and they sort of you [TS]

01:04:23   don't have to do it we can do it for you [TS]

01:04:24   understands [TS]

01:04:25   Microsoft's historical weakness that [TS]

01:04:28   their developers make crappy apps I'm [TS]

01:04:30   not bad like you know they're not but [TS]

01:04:32   from a perspective of an Apple person [TS]

01:04:34   like that they're not they don't have [TS]

01:04:36   the Apple attention to detail they don't [TS]

01:04:38   if they don't have the Metro attention [TS]

01:04:39   to detail basically like all these [TS]

01:04:40   things this philosophy of Metro and in [TS]

01:04:42   terms of design aesthetic and adherence [TS]

01:04:46   to a particular system for the way [TS]

01:04:48   things should look and behave is very [TS]

01:04:51   very app alike and historically Windows [TS]

01:04:53   applications have not been like that [TS]

01:04:54   developers can do whatever the hell they [TS]

01:04:55   want and they do and it seemed like all [TS]

01:04:58   of the developers who really cared about [TS]

01:04:59   every single pixel of their applications [TS]

01:05:01   we're not on Windows they were on the [TS]

01:05:03   Mac platform or you know some other [TS]

01:05:06   platform where that for whatever reason [TS]

01:05:08   draws those type of people to that so [TS]

01:05:11   Metro even if Metro was like the best [TS]

01:05:16   thing ever [TS]

01:05:17   Microsoft faces the challenge of either [TS]

01:05:20   taking their current stable developers [TS]

01:05:22   and changing their value system the same [TS]

01:05:23   way Microsoft seems to have changed its [TS]

01:05:25   value system or at least within the [TS]

01:05:26   Metro team Microsoft volume is very [TS]

01:05:28   different from Metro than for the rest [TS]

01:05:29   of Windows they have to either get their [TS]

01:05:32   existing developers at this conference [TS]

01:05:34   to change their value system to behave [TS]

01:05:35   more like Apple developers sweating over [TS]

01:05:37   every pixel like you know panic or icon [TS]

01:05:39   factory or something or they have to [TS]

01:05:43   recruit new developers from other [TS]

01:05:44   platforms who already have that [TS]

01:05:45   philosophy and attract them to theirs [TS]

01:05:47   and I think Metro being so interesting [TS]

01:05:50   and different and so designer II will [TS]

01:05:54   help them attract the new people [TS]

01:05:55   maybe the templates and all of this like [TS]

01:05:58   no you don't have to do it for you whoo [TS]

01:05:59   here here's a template here's just you [TS]

01:06:01   just you just give us the image you're [TS]

01:06:02   just a lot about interface and metros [TS]

01:06:03   like that you give us an image you give [TS]

01:06:04   us the text we will lay it out for you [TS]

01:06:06   it's like we don't trust you to take [TS]

01:06:08   this box and lay out your content in two [TS]

01:06:10   hours for example interface builder on [TS]

01:06:12   the Mac you can just drag out a button [TS]

01:06:14   drag out it now those guidelines [TS]

01:06:15   snapping to the aqwal grid guidelines [TS]

01:06:17   but Apple is more or less trusting Mac [TS]

01:06:19   developers to make pleasing dialog box [TS]

01:06:21   which can be difficult very difficult to [TS]

01:06:23   relay all those controls so they're you [TS]

01:06:25   know easy to find easy to scan and [TS]

01:06:26   visually appealing the guides help but [TS]

01:06:29   you could even get more the guys you see [TS]

01:06:30   all seen Mac apps that have like a [TS]

01:06:32   poorly laid out dialogue boxing like oh [TS]

01:06:34   geez who made this thing but by and [TS]

01:06:35   large the best Mac apps are not like [TS]

01:06:37   that [TS]

01:06:38   and the best windows apps even the ones [TS]

01:06:41   made by Microsoft are still like that [TS]

01:06:42   pretty crappy so hmm I had a slide near [TS]

01:06:44   the end which was Metro design [TS]

01:06:46   principles and the number one Metro [TS]

01:06:48   design principle which I thought was [TS]

01:06:49   very revealing in but and goes back to [TS]

01:06:52   we're just talking about the number one [TS]

01:06:54   Metro design principle it's pride in [TS]

01:06:56   craftsmanship hmm the fact that's number [TS]

01:06:59   one I would have been insulted if I was [TS]

01:07:01   in that audience like what are you [TS]

01:07:02   trying to say you trying to say we [TS]

01:07:03   making Windows app sooner is making crap [TS]

01:07:04   we don't care what we make we have no [TS]

01:07:05   pride no craftsmanship we just want to [TS]

01:07:06   make the you know fill in the form bla [TS]

01:07:08   bla bla hit the button and the thing [TS]

01:07:10   works that was their number one can you [TS]

01:07:13   imagine Apple going to WWC and say the [TS]

01:07:17   number one principle Mac OS 10 what [TS]

01:07:19   we're telling you developers when you [TS]

01:07:20   make your apps have this in mind is have [TS]

01:07:22   pride in what you do yeah I can craft [TS]

01:07:24   JIT everyone in WEC thinks they're [TS]

01:07:26   making the best app in the world they're [TS]

01:07:28   gonna kill themselves to try to make it [TS]

01:07:29   the best app normal that's a great point [TS]

01:07:30   maybe less so with like iOS apps you [TS]

01:07:33   know with big game companies sending [TS]

01:07:35   some random team to make it but [TS]

01:07:36   historically speaking pride and [TS]

01:07:38   craftsmanship has not been the problem [TS]

01:07:39   on the Mac platform sir is platform well [TS]

01:07:44   more than iOS that is led in sort of [TS]

01:07:45   since it's been the gold rush there is a [TS]

01:07:47   lack of pride of gratitude from a crap [TS]

01:07:48   absent in the iOS store like people [TS]

01:07:50   churning out 50 applications bogus fraud [TS]

01:07:53   applications or just you just want to [TS]

01:07:54   have something on iOS that is definitely [TS]

01:07:57   lowered the pride in craftsmanship but [TS]

01:07:59   those aren't like those are outsiders [TS]

01:08:00   you know from the respect that if [TS]

01:08:03   someone who's been this in this [TS]

01:08:04   community for a long time is like the [TS]

01:08:05   Mac developers and the next developer is [TS]

01:08:07   definitely a pride in craftsmanship in [TS]

01:08:08   iOS just because it's been so successful [TS]

01:08:10   as as attracted the other people but [TS]

01:08:13   Microsoft is talking to it's humungous [TS]

01:08:15   installed base of Windows developers [TS]

01:08:16   saying have pride in craftsmanship and [TS]

01:08:19   the other ones were be fast and fluid do [TS]

01:08:21   more with less [TS]

01:08:22   and a bunch of other stuff like that but [TS]

01:08:24   the pride and craftsmanship really got [TS]

01:08:26   me you know who's got a lot of pride and [TS]

01:08:28   craftsmanship for real I bet your family [TS]

01:08:31   Shopify com the Internet's the most [TS]

01:08:32   elegant customizable and affordable [TS]

01:08:34   hosted ecommerce platform you can take [TS]

01:08:37   advantage of Shopify thriving theme and [TS]

01:08:39   application community which is all about [TS]

01:08:41   crafts on a ship lets you add depth and [TS]

01:08:44   beauty to your site you can customize [TS]

01:08:46   your own storefront using HTML and CSS [TS]

01:08:47   JavaScript if you like but no Perl [TS]

01:08:51   and for a limited time usually they they [TS]

01:08:53   have this thing where it's like one [TS]

01:08:54   month for free and I said listen that [TS]

01:08:57   one month that's not special and said [TS]

01:09:00   who cares about one month I want three [TS]

01:09:02   months and I want all of my listeners to [TS]

01:09:04   get three months and they said there's [TS]

01:09:06   no way we can do three months can't do [TS]

01:09:08   it we could do we do 40 days [TS]

01:09:11   I said that's forget it you know get out [TS]

01:09:14   of here I don't care it we're done we're [TS]

01:09:16   done here and I got up from the table I [TS]

01:09:18   walked out and they ran after they said [TS]

01:09:19   fine fine we will do three months free [TS]

01:09:23   for your listeners they have to use the [TS]

01:09:25   special code though I said fine what's [TS]

01:09:27   the code and they said five by five and [TS]

01:09:29   I looked at them and I stuck out my ant [TS]

01:09:32   I said let's make it let's make this [TS]

01:09:34   reality right now and they said you got [TS]

01:09:36   it Shopify com code is five by five [TS]

01:09:40   three months free you should add it [TS]

01:09:42   apart but they had to go to their [TS]

01:09:43   manager I got that's my man I could ask [TS]

01:09:45   my and they go back no that's not how [TS]

01:09:48   went down I'm not gonna lie all right [TS]

01:09:49   yeah okay your story all right that's so [TS]

01:09:55   much more than Windows 8 stuff let me [TS]

01:09:56   ask you this let me let me cut to the [TS]

01:09:58   chase here I'm not gonna skip to stop [TS]

01:10:01   I'm gonna say over another show you know [TS]

01:10:02   no god no that's please please do all [TS]

01:10:04   right good [TS]

01:10:05   what's the verdict here on this do do [TS]

01:10:09   you do you think Windows 8 Metro is [TS]

01:10:13   going to make any Mac users say well I I [TS]

01:10:19   guess I can finally go back to Windows [TS]

01:10:21   now I mean what how does this affect [TS]

01:10:24   Windows in general not from mainly it [TS]

01:10:26   sounds like what you've been talking [TS]

01:10:27   about as a developer standpoint because [TS]

01:10:29   obviously that's that's what you and [TS]

01:10:31   certainly I and probably our audience [TS]

01:10:33   are interested in but is this going to [TS]

01:10:35   revitalize because look look at what Mac [TS]

01:10:38   os10 did maybe not 10 dot oh but [TS]

01:10:40   certainly subsequent versions and maybe [TS]

01:10:43   10 dotto to look at what Mac OS 10 did [TS]

01:10:46   for Apple is this Metro going to do that [TS]

01:10:49   for Windows for the PC platform do you [TS]

01:10:52   think because think about this Metro [TS]

01:10:55   isn't just competing with Mac OS 10 its [TS]

01:10:58   competing with older versions of Windows [TS]

01:11:00   and it's also competing with things like [TS]

01:11:02   Linux and [TS]

01:11:03   everything else that's out there what [TS]

01:11:05   what is this going to do is is this what [TS]

01:11:08   Microsoft has been waiting for and I [TS]

01:11:09   will add a rider question on to that [TS]

01:11:13   question which is why not just call it [TS]

01:11:15   Metro when there are no more windows as [TS]

01:11:18   asked by John Gruber go alright so the [TS]

01:11:23   impression I get from the Apple thing in [TS]

01:11:27   the Mac os10 [TS]

01:11:28   is not so much that Mac OS 10 [TS]

01:11:32   revitalized or broad new people to the [TS]

01:11:35   Mac platform it's a little bit different [TS]

01:11:37   in that what what Matt goes tempered did [TS]

01:11:39   first of all was it brought the next [TS]

01:11:40   people to the Mac platform there was [TS]

01:11:42   next people there was Mac people and the [TS]

01:11:43   Mac people were small in the next people [TS]

01:11:45   were vanishingly small and it brought [TS]

01:11:47   those two groups together but the the [TS]

01:11:51   makeup of those two groups was very [TS]

01:11:52   similar those are the people who had [TS]

01:11:54   obsessive pride and craftsmanship the [TS]

01:11:56   Mac people were very already the the [TS]

01:11:57   next people were kind of technical but [TS]

01:12:00   the reason they were using these really [TS]

01:12:02   low market share obscure platforms is [TS]

01:12:05   because the particular technical and [TS]

01:12:06   artistic attributes of them were [TS]

01:12:09   attractive enough that they were willing [TS]

01:12:10   to forego you know developing for [TS]

01:12:12   Windows developing for the big platform [TS]

01:12:14   where they could make way more money and [TS]

01:12:15   you know so that was the content of the [TS]

01:12:18   Mac and next communities before the [TS]

01:12:20   advent of Mac OS 10 and those people [TS]

01:12:22   were trying to make good apps they were [TS]

01:12:24   trying to make good next apps and the [TS]

01:12:26   Mac people were trying to make good Mac [TS]

01:12:28   apps and they they were but it was kind [TS]

01:12:30   of like toiling in obscurity right so [TS]

01:12:32   when Mac os10 came along and Apple found [TS]

01:12:36   a way to start selling its hardware to [TS]

01:12:37   more people and you know to get out to [TS]

01:12:40   reverse the PR death spiral that the [TS]

01:12:43   company was in and the financial death [TS]

01:12:44   spiral which triggered the PR does [TS]

01:12:46   Fowler to make it so that you know at [TS]

01:12:47   Apple they still in business changing [TS]

01:12:48   that to be hey Apple have you seen this [TS]

01:12:50   new Apple Computer the iMac it's blue [TS]

01:12:52   you know they that reversal so getting [TS]

01:12:56   people in the door to buy Macs and [TS]

01:12:58   trying to you know make the company [TS]

01:12:59   viable make it successful and grow the [TS]

01:13:01   platform at the same time as combining [TS]

01:13:03   the tiny little pool of next people and [TS]

01:13:05   the slightly less tiny pool of Mac [TS]

01:13:08   developers suddenly those guys had a [TS]

01:13:11   bigger audience and lo and behold you [TS]

01:13:14   know like when the users came along [TS]

01:13:16   there [TS]

01:13:16   say look at all these great apps for [TS]

01:13:18   this for this platform that I'd never [TS]

01:13:19   heard of before on this this is a really [TS]

01:13:21   nice-looking app I like this like this [TS]

01:13:22   FTP app this transmit thing this is much [TS]

01:13:24   nicer than whenever I was using on [TS]

01:13:25   Windows how did this thing get here well [TS]

01:13:27   those guys were already there they were [TS]

01:13:28   making that app before you even heard of [TS]

01:13:30   the iMac before the iMac even existed [TS]

01:13:31   before you idiot when you thought apples [TS]

01:13:33   out of business they were making apps [TS]

01:13:35   you know uh so it kind of gave the team [TS]

01:13:40   that the Apple Mac next team and [TS]

01:13:43   eventually the iOS did the same thing [TS]

01:13:45   gave that team someplace to to sell its [TS]

01:13:48   wares but we already have the team like [TS]

01:13:50   same thing when iOS came along it was [TS]

01:13:52   like alright anybody who was really into [TS]

01:13:55   mac toolbox and couldn't make the [TS]

01:13:56   transition to cocoa has pretty much [TS]

01:13:57   faded out by now so it's just a bunch of [TS]

01:13:59   cocoa guys and we're gonna do iOS which [TS]

01:14:01   is very cocoa like and UI kid is very [TS]

01:14:03   much like app kit but a little bit [TS]

01:14:04   better and we shaved off the edges and [TS]

01:14:05   it's made by the same guys who learn the [TS]

01:14:06   lessons of app kit and you guys are [TS]

01:14:09   familiar with that stuff you know the [TS]

01:14:10   tools you know the language here's this [TS]

01:14:12   mobile platform go same team even bigger [TS]

01:14:15   audience and and people love now we got [TS]

01:14:17   this other developer base of like once [TS]

01:14:19   the audience gets to a certain size then [TS]

01:14:20   the people making the crap app start [TS]

01:14:22   coming out you know the game cheap code [TS]

01:14:24   keyword spamming piece of crap crashy [TS]

01:14:27   thing you know the hundred thousand apps [TS]

01:14:29   in the App Store 100 million or having [TS]

01:14:30   me I don't even know how many there are [TS]

01:14:31   now so much of those are crap just [TS]

01:14:33   because so much of everything is crap [TS]

01:14:34   but the good ones are really good now [TS]

01:14:37   Microsoft one team it's got a team two [TS]

01:14:40   it's got a humongous team it's got the [TS]

01:14:42   guys who make Windows software that's [TS]

01:14:43   their team right that's I don't know if [TS]

01:14:46   that team is ready to make apps to make [TS]

01:14:51   Metro apps the quality that Microsoft [TS]

01:14:53   wants them to because if they were [TS]

01:14:54   they'd be making much better Windows [TS]

01:14:56   apps in there now I'm sure there are [TS]

01:14:58   great Windows apps out there too but [TS]

01:15:00   like even the very best of the best [TS]

01:15:02   Windows apps maybe they're held back by [TS]

01:15:04   the toolkit maybe it's just that Windows [TS]

01:15:06   controls and the tools that they're [TS]

01:15:08   given it's just like they can't change [TS]

01:15:09   the system phone system pause a little [TS]

01:15:11   bit too small and the official spacing [TS]

01:15:13   is a little bit tight and where the [TS]

01:15:14   buttons are supposed to go and the per [TS]

01:15:15   the prevalence of Wizards I don't know [TS]

01:15:17   what's making Windows apps crappy from [TS]

01:15:19   the perspective of a Mac user and more [TS]

01:15:21   confusing and less pleasing from the [TS]

01:15:24   respect of a regular consumer then you [TS]

01:15:26   know an iPad app or an iOS app or [TS]

01:15:28   anything like that [TS]

01:15:29   maybe maybe you give that team this [TS]

01:15:32   toolkit maybe they do make great apps I [TS]

01:15:33   don't know but the Mac guys had a crappy [TS]

01:15:36   toolkit when they were doing classic Mac [TS]

01:15:37   OS like that thing it was way past its [TS]

01:15:39   sell-by date they were still making [TS]

01:15:41   great apps with those horrible tools and [TS]

01:15:43   you know Metro work just like a breath [TS]

01:15:45   of fresh air for them using like right [TS]

01:15:47   yeah yeah MPW Macintosh programmers [TS]

01:15:50   workshop and mr. C and like you know [TS]

01:15:53   they were still able to make great apps [TS]

01:15:55   that we all loved even given that [TS]

01:15:58   horrible environment so I don't know if [TS]

01:16:00   the team Microsoft's got is up to the [TS]

01:16:02   challenge of making the apps that they [TS]

01:16:03   want so that leaves you know sort of [TS]

01:16:06   fine so pull somebody else pull some [TS]

01:16:07   other team now Apple benefit greatly by [TS]

01:16:09   getting the next team both internally [TS]

01:16:10   the people who work for next became [TS]

01:16:12   Apple people who ran the show basically [TS]

01:16:14   from then on technically and then the [TS]

01:16:17   next developers you know you got to [TS]

01:16:19   develop applications and became the [TS]

01:16:20   great Mac and the great iOS developers [TS]

01:16:22   Microsoft didn't acquire anybody who has [TS]

01:16:25   a little stable of great developers as [TS]

01:16:27   far as I know maybe like maybe the [TS]

01:16:29   danger guys I think that whole thing [TS]

01:16:30   went bad with holes Kim I don't know [TS]

01:16:32   those guys are still there but then out [TS]

01:16:35   in the third-party world like had they [TS]

01:16:36   acquired any other community of [TS]

01:16:37   developers I don't think so so they have [TS]

01:16:41   to they have to poach they have to I [TS]

01:16:43   mean they have to pull Mac developers [TS]

01:16:45   you know pull iOS developers it would be [TS]

01:16:48   great if they could do that ah do they [TS]

01:16:50   want a plan droid developers maybe maybe [TS]

01:16:53   not [TS]

01:16:53   maybe what they're looking for is a [TS]

01:16:55   beautiful minimal interface according to [TS]

01:16:58   a strict set of standards that are very [TS]

01:17:00   limited maybe they don't maybe they [TS]

01:17:05   don't want those guys so that's that [TS]

01:17:09   that I think is their met their first [TS]

01:17:10   the second challenge second challenge is [TS]

01:17:13   how the hell we going to get people to [TS]

01:17:16   make the apps that we want because [TS]

01:17:17   they're pushing hard they know what they [TS]

01:17:18   want they know the kayaks they want and [TS]

01:17:20   they're they're really hoping that their [TS]

01:17:21   community developers all those guys in [TS]

01:17:23   the audience they will do it for them [TS]

01:17:24   and if they can't do that they going to [TS]

01:17:25   start poaching at their first challenge [TS]

01:17:27   number one or maybe number zero is they [TS]

01:17:30   have to execute in ship this is you know [TS]

01:17:32   I don't know what the schedule thing is [TS]

01:17:33   like a year from now these are they [TS]

01:17:35   gonna be ready they got the execute [TS]

01:17:36   execute execute and ship ship and [TS]

01:17:38   execute and update don't do what they [TS]

01:17:39   did with Windows Phone which was ship [TS]

01:17:40   and then like [TS]

01:17:41   promise you're gonna have an updated as [TS]

01:17:43   copy-and-paste and like do nothing for [TS]

01:17:44   months and months and months they have [TS]

01:17:46   to get it done get it bug free and ship [TS]

01:17:49   it and then ship the next version then [TS]

01:17:51   ship the next version ship the next [TS]

01:17:52   review they have to do you know that's [TS]

01:17:54   do the Apple thing they have to do that [TS]

01:17:56   execute so assuming the execute then [TS]

01:17:58   their second challenge like I said is to [TS]

01:17:59   get developers get people to write the [TS]

01:18:02   great apps can they poach from the B [TS]

01:18:07   world of iOS and Mac developers I think [TS]

01:18:10   they have a legitimate shot I think a [TS]

01:18:12   Mac developer or an iOS developer will [TS]

01:18:16   be more inclined to say you know what [TS]

01:18:19   I'm going to try another version of this [TS]

01:18:21   app and actually I'm going to make it a [TS]

01:18:22   Windows 8 version I have been resisting [TS]

01:18:24   import to Android but I'm going to try [TS]

01:18:25   I'm going to try that like when I [TS]

01:18:28   thought of this one I should with some [TS]

01:18:29   slide of saying we didn't give them [TS]

01:18:31   getting contracts we will do the next [TS]

01:18:32   row but about the contracts thing some [TS]

01:18:35   other type of things you can imagine [TS]

01:18:37   doing in Windows 8 huh you're saying [TS]

01:18:39   what kind of applications might use the [TS]

01:18:40   feature XY and Z and one of the ones [TS]

01:18:42   that listed was read it later services [TS]

01:18:43   and I thought of Marco who is thus far [TS]

01:18:45   not wanted to do an Android version of [TS]

01:18:48   that app maybe he'd be more inclined to [TS]

01:18:53   do some sort of Windows 8 integration [TS]

01:18:56   for Instapaper than he would for Android [TS]

01:18:58   just because the tools are better and [TS]

01:19:00   the platform owner is more friendly and [TS]

01:19:03   it's not it's like kind of desktop you [TS]

01:19:05   know it's kind of this weird hybrid 2 [TS]

01:19:07   interface you're not doing it on the [TS]

01:19:08   phone you're doing in a larger thing and [TS]

01:19:09   like basically also you know it's it's [TS]

01:19:12   more interesting than Android because [TS]

01:19:13   it's not just a pale imitation of what [TS]

01:19:15   Apple's doing and potentially [TS]

01:19:18   potentially there's a big base out there [TS]

01:19:20   bigger than entry view if you if [TS]

01:19:22   Microsoft can convert its entire desktop [TS]

01:19:24   PC base to running Windows 8 suddenly [TS]

01:19:27   this work that you're done can run on [TS]

01:19:28   every PC in the world basically except [TS]

01:19:29   for Mac's right and by the way also [TS]

01:19:32   tablets stuff like that so I think they [TS]

01:19:35   have a legitimate shot of pulling some [TS]

01:19:39   people over now what those people's [TS]

01:19:40   experience is like like oh so we decided [TS]

01:19:42   to make Windows 8 port and it was a [TS]

01:19:43   horrible experience because the tools [TS]

01:19:45   are bad or the whole thing was buggy [TS]

01:19:46   that's not good or we decide to make a [TS]

01:19:47   Windows 8 port but it was pointless [TS]

01:19:49   because Microsoft could not sell like [TS]

01:19:51   they couldn't get people upgrade from [TS]

01:19:52   Windows 7 they couldn't get people off [TS]

01:19:53   xp they couldn't sell on all these [TS]

01:19:54   device [TS]

01:19:55   running away whatever the problem was [TS]

01:19:56   like they once they pull those two or [TS]

01:19:58   three or four guys over maybe that's [TS]

01:19:59   throw a little money there right [TS]

01:20:00   whatever that's to do they have to make [TS]

01:20:03   that experience beneficial like we did [TS]

01:20:05   an Android port it was a big hassle we [TS]

01:20:07   got nothing we did a Windows 8 port and [TS]

01:20:09   it was a much nicer experience and we've [TS]

01:20:11   seen some financial reward from it or [TS]

01:20:12   was a fun experience or I like the end [TS]

01:20:14   result I think it's cooler I've got a [TS]

01:20:15   metro tablet and it's it's fun for me to [TS]

01:20:18   use and I like it I never launched the [TS]

01:20:19   Windows desktop part of it you know so I [TS]

01:20:22   forget at this point I forgotten my [TS]

01:20:25   original question was but I hope I've [TS]

01:20:26   answered it well I think he did I think [TS]

01:20:28   he more than did um Oh interesting to [TS]

01:20:32   see where they go with this I mean it's [TS]

01:20:34   it's a year away though right nine [TS]

01:20:36   months or is it a year yeah that's [TS]

01:20:38   that's just like says the Microsoft way [TS]

01:20:39   they're showing up early I think I think [TS]

01:20:42   they had to because otherwise you know [TS]

01:20:44   everyone had written Microsoft off [TS]

01:20:45   already and this gave them new life uh [TS]

01:20:47   hopefully we don't forget about them a [TS]

01:20:50   year and hopefully they'll keep the yet [TS]

01:20:51   the flow of PR going to say yeah no [TS]

01:20:54   we're really doing this it's actually [TS]

01:20:55   gonna ship having done it have they done [TS]

01:20:56   that before come out with something [TS]

01:20:57   announced it and then sort of forgotten [TS]

01:20:59   about it not ship that they've done that [TS]

01:21:00   with some no I'm lighting sorry I mean [TS]

01:21:02   the public forgetting about it because [TS]

01:21:04   they're not in our face reminding us [TS]

01:21:06   that they're gonna do this thing now [TS]

01:21:07   sometimes margasoft is also done in our [TS]

01:21:08   face yeah the slates stuff like that [TS]

01:21:10   like they shop about it because they [TS]

01:21:11   realize it was going nowhere but this is [TS]

01:21:13   this is too Jake this is me this is when [TS]

01:21:15   Windows 8 like Windows 7 they were kind [TS]

01:21:17   of in our face about like here's the new [TS]

01:21:18   windows like in Windows 8 is this is way [TS]

01:21:20   bigger than Windows 7 so I think they [TS]

01:21:22   will keep reminding us they're going to [TS]

01:21:23   do it and then they had to say something [TS]

01:21:25   early because if they didn't say either [TS]

01:21:27   way till the end of this year to do what [TS]

01:21:28   they just did now we'd be like God too [TS]

01:21:30   little too late [TS]

01:21:31   yeah I mean it may already be too late [TS]

01:21:33   in terms of the tablet market we'll see [TS]

01:21:34   but this Microsoft style sure show it [TS]

01:21:38   early and you know do what you got to do [TS]

01:21:40   to get people excited about it and you [TS]

01:21:43   have way more Windows 8 stuff so people [TS]

01:21:45   who do not want to hear more about [TS]

01:21:46   Windows 8 the next show also probably [TS]

01:21:49   you know the Reno topic of the show was [TS]

01:21:51   going to be what ails Microsoft maybe [TS]

01:21:52   I'll get to that at the end of the [TS]

01:21:54   Windows eight stuff so this is going to [TS]

01:21:55   be a little run of Microsoft stuff I [TS]

01:21:57   know people didn't like it when I did [TS]

01:21:58   two or three shows in a row about [TS]

01:21:59   programming this is going to be two or [TS]

01:22:01   three shows in a row talking about [TS]

01:22:02   Microsoft because this is something I [TS]

01:22:04   can't wait for that the most interesting [TS]

01:22:06   thing happening in this this space [TS]

01:22:08   right now I think that's it though and [TS]

01:22:14   so for today I think I'll wrap it up [TS]

01:22:17   yeah well you can follow John on Twitter [TS]

01:22:22   just as simple it's simple to do this [TS]

01:22:24   it's just siracusa si RAC USA there's no [TS]

01:22:30   Z in that I am Dan Benjamin on Twitter [TS]

01:22:34   can read a lot of John's writing over it [TS]

01:22:38   Ars Technica your best stuff is there [TS]

01:22:40   really I think my only stuff practically [TS]

01:22:46   well let's up a Macworld to a couple of [TS]

01:22:49   our obscure things don't downplay that [TS]

01:22:50   hmm sometimes John it can be heard on [TS]

01:22:53   other podcasts such as the incomparable [TS]

01:22:56   or incomparable as you say which is a [TS]

01:23:00   great show a lot of fun you can be heard [TS]

01:23:03   over there with Jason Snell and a whole [TS]

01:23:05   bunch of other excellent Mac nerds [TS]

01:23:07   that's about it sir q saw on Twitter [TS]

01:23:11   nosey and and that's it if you like this [TS]

01:23:14   show please consider going to iTunes [TS]

01:23:16   signing in and rating it that is a [TS]

01:23:18   really the best way to keep it a kick in [TS]

01:23:20   very much the same way that we are [TS]

01:23:22   hoping that Microsoft will do something [TS]

01:23:24   great here and and they are hoping we [TS]

01:23:27   pay attention by keeping it in on the [TS]

01:23:29   radar you can go to iTunes and keep this [TS]

01:23:32   show on the radar by your rating it it's [TS]

01:23:35   great that you rated it before thank you [TS]

01:23:38   if you haven't rated it shame on you and [TS]

01:23:39   please go down and write it also what I [TS]

01:23:41   would suggest is so I obsessively read [TS]

01:23:43   the reviews if you don't want a writer [TS]

01:23:44   review whatever but there's these little [TS]

01:23:47   buttons next to every review that says [TS]

01:23:48   there was this review helpful yes no and [TS]

01:23:50   there's kind of a self-fulfilling [TS]

01:23:53   prophecy effect where after two or three [TS]

01:23:54   people like when there was like three [TS]

01:23:56   reviews someone came in and clicked on [TS]

01:23:57   they read the three reviews and one of [TS]

01:23:59   them was like the review they liked the [TS]

01:24:01   best [TS]

01:24:01   so they clicked this was helpful yeah [TS]

01:24:02   it'd be helpful yes that was bad [TS]

01:24:04   phrasing what really is do you agree [TS]

01:24:05   with this review yes no so if it's a if [TS]

01:24:07   it's a bad review and you think the show [TS]

01:24:08   is bad you say you agree in vice-versa [TS]

01:24:11   so the first few reviews up there a lot [TS]

01:24:13   of people not a lot of people like 10 or [TS]

01:24:16   15 people clicked on the you know yes [TS]

01:24:17   this review was helpful that has been [TS]

01:24:19   the number one review but it's sorted by [TS]

01:24:21   which is most helpful [TS]

01:24:22   that's been the number one review since [TS]

01:24:24   the inception of the show and it only [TS]

01:24:25   had like 10 or 15 clicks so there are I [TS]

01:24:27   don't know how many reviews maybe 100 [TS]

01:24:29   200 something like that but the number [TS]

01:24:31   one review has ten of the this has been [TS]

01:24:33   most helpful link so if we just want to [TS]

01:24:34   go through the routine Osborne who else [TS]

01:24:36   is motivated to read the views except [TS]

01:24:37   for the people on the show but it would [TS]

01:24:40   be nice I thought I thought to be more [TS]

01:24:41   churn in terms of what the top reviewers [TS]

01:24:43   of you if you go through the reviews and [TS]

01:24:45   find one that you either agree with you [TS]

01:24:46   actually think is helpful or whatever [TS]

01:24:47   however you want interpret that click [TS]

01:24:49   the yes or no link to either push [TS]

01:24:50   reviews up or down in the list of [TS]

01:24:52   reviews because I'm on the web interface [TS]

01:24:54   and iTunes they just show you like the [TS]

01:24:55   top two or three reviews and those never [TS]

01:24:58   change despite the fact that if the tail [TS]

01:24:59   end of those reviews if you sort by most [TS]

01:25:01   recent and go to the last page or go to [TS]

01:25:04   the first page you'll see people are [TS]

01:25:05   writing reviews all the time and I read [TS]

01:25:06   every single one of those so thank you [TS]

01:25:07   for everybody who is writing reviews [TS]

01:25:09   because I do read them but no one else [TS]

01:25:11   is going to see them because at twenty [TS]

01:25:11   pages back and no one ever goes 20 pages [TS]

01:25:13   back and hits on a little yes this is [TS]

01:25:15   helpful thing to make it bubble up to [TS]

01:25:17   the top so if you're an obsessive fan of [TS]

01:25:19   the show and looking for something to do [TS]

01:25:20   when you like clicking cover me through [TS]

01:25:22   some of the reviews and click on the [TS]

01:25:24   ones that you think are well-written [TS]

01:25:25   agree with what you agree with or if you [TS]

01:25:27   want to write your own review get your [TS]

01:25:29   friends to all click on that yes this [TS]

01:25:30   was helpful you only need like 10 or 20 [TS]

01:25:32   things to suddenly pop up to be the [TS]

01:25:33   number one review in the list of reviews [TS]

01:25:35   I think my mom has like 17 yes this was [TS]

01:25:38   helpful or something so uh give that a [TS]

01:25:41   try I like that alright go check out our [TS]

01:25:46   to sponsors campaign monitor hum slash [TS]

01:25:49   templates and Shopify comm using the [TS]

01:25:52   code 5x5 we'll be back next week and we [TS]

01:25:56   will announce will we announce when [TS]

01:25:58   we're doing the Goodfellas thing will we [TS]

01:25:59   announce ahead of time so people can [TS]

01:26:01   watch it if they haven't or rewatch it [TS]

01:26:03   if they haven't seen in a while they [TS]

01:26:05   just say we should have been smart [TS]

01:26:06   because they just had it on was it AME [TS]

01:26:08   they just had it on but so you can't [TS]

01:26:10   watch that you get a watch I got a DVD [TS]

01:26:11   you can't watch well you can't watch [TS]

01:26:13   commercials you can't watch with the [TS]

01:26:14   editing I've got an HD version of it too [TS]

01:26:16   and I have the DVD so yeah we're good to [TS]

01:26:19   go and yeah we will announce it even if [TS]

01:26:21   we've already recorded it you'll just [TS]

01:26:22   hold it back and you know so we can [TS]

01:26:24   announce it and then put it out well and [TS]

01:26:26   I guess the difference is since it's not [TS]

01:26:27   going to be part of this show people can [TS]

01:26:29   know that oh it's a special thing it has [TS]

01:26:32   a thing and then they they go they and [TS]

01:26:33   we can say in the beginning if you [TS]

01:26:35   haven't watched [TS]

01:26:35   it go watch it and you said for a lot of [TS]

01:26:40   people will listen to this and say no [TS]

01:26:41   Dan don't do a review don't review it [TS]

01:26:43   later do a mystery science 3000 thing [TS]

01:26:46   and talk tell nobody will say that [TS]

01:26:48   that's what you know they said that in [TS]

01:26:49   the chat room already today [TS]

01:26:50   joe said that I didn't see it was in [TS]

01:26:52   there in the chat room well we know that [TS]

01:26:54   you want that but I don't I do want that [TS]

01:26:56   and I think it would be fine to do that [TS]

01:26:58   and so and everybody who would like to [TS]

01:27:01   do that no not fair [TS]

01:27:03   anyone would not like that I think [TS]

01:27:07   everybody who wants it if you don't want [TS]

01:27:08   it don't bother to write in but if you [TS]

01:27:11   do want it right in and then a hundred [TS]

01:27:12   but the silent majority doesn't want [TS]

01:27:15   that mysteri CagA the reason mst3k style [TS]

01:27:17   doesn't work for people who are asking [TS]

01:27:19   for it is that I think we've discussed [TS]

01:27:21   this before as something happens on the [TS]

01:27:23   screen that you want to discuss if your [TS]

01:27:25   explanation is long-winded like mine [TS]

01:27:27   always are and rambling by the time [TS]

01:27:28   you're done talking about the thing you [TS]

01:27:30   want to talk about you miss six others [TS]

01:27:31   and here's what you do [TS]

01:27:32   you you tell agree I agree and my answer [TS]

01:27:35   is a subpar answer or as you would say a [TS]

01:27:38   piss-poor answer but here's what you do [TS]

01:27:40   you say okay hit pause everybody hit [TS]

01:27:42   pause and they have to hit pause but say [TS]

01:27:44   I'm a c3 chemistry K is prepared comedic [TS]

01:27:47   statements time to make one look at [TS]

01:27:48   rehearse it we could rehearse it we're [TS]

01:27:51   gonna watch a movie just like the bond [TS]

01:27:53   stop sorry like the bond it's what [TS]

01:27:54   you've done before it's what we're gonna [TS]

01:27:55   do this all right you win yes are we [TS]

01:27:59   really like you too [TS]

01:28:00   yes did you do a little fist pump errs [TS]

01:28:02   under anything and that my fingers it [TS]

01:28:04   excellent if you really want to do an [TS]

01:28:08   mst3k thing like Don the incomparable [TS]

01:28:10   they tried to do in mst3k thing actually [TS]

01:28:12   did a RiffTrax thing yeah and it was [TS]

01:28:15   funny and I was thinking of [TS]

01:28:16   participating but that's hard my just [TS]

01:28:17   tried I tried to like write jokes time [TS]

01:28:20   today was only a twenty minute movie [TS]

01:28:22   video thing that is hard I could come up [TS]

01:28:24   with nothing and the people who did it [TS]

01:28:25   did a great job but I that is not my [TS]

01:28:26   skill set all right so we won't do that [TS]

01:28:28   we'll just review it will give people a [TS]

01:28:30   heads up when it's coming we'll record [TS]

01:28:32   it get it record it soon movies not [TS]

01:28:34   going anywhere but yeah right so you [TS]

01:28:36   know we get it there's a vibe going on [TS]

01:28:38   now I close man nights and weekends [TS]

01:28:40   I do weekends how you say that but we [TS]

01:28:43   never do nights and weekends I do all my [TS]

01:28:45   incomparable at 11:00 p.m. [TS]

01:28:46   are you a persuasive guy urges [TS]

01:28:48   kowtow to things odd neither because if [TS]

01:28:52   you can persuade my wife to let me cut [TS]

01:28:54   out about I need about 3/4 never ask [TS]

01:28:58   someone else to persuade your wife of [TS]

01:28:59   anything blue three to four hours you [TS]

01:29:03   should go to bed lucky you got baby I [TS]

01:29:05   don't know how you doing officer I have [TS]

01:29:07   no I I don't I have no advice for you [TS]

01:29:09   and now here's what here's what's gonna [TS]

01:29:11   have to happen I need about three or [TS]

01:29:13   four hours because I got to watch the [TS]

01:29:14   movie at least once maybe twice and then [TS]

01:29:17   we gotta record about it I know right [TS]

01:29:19   yes I understand a lot of what amount I [TS]

01:29:22   can't imagine doing it if I had a [TS]

01:29:23   newborn hear it armed and yet and yet [TS]

01:29:25   Here I am doing shows and I have to I [TS]

01:29:27   have to do this one I'm very excited [TS]

01:29:29   about this one especially seeing it [TS]

01:29:30   again rekindled my interest has been a [TS]

01:29:32   long time since I watched it we're gonna [TS]

01:29:35   do this alright [TS]

01:29:37   thanks for tuning in everybody we'll be [TS]

01:29:39   back next week have a good one job in [TS]

01:29:41   Tim [TS]