Hypercritical

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:01 ◼   ► this is hypercritical this is a weekly [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► talkshow ruminating on exactly what is [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► wrong in the will of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► technologies and businesses as we say [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► here nothing is so perfect it cannot be [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► complained about by Michael and perhaps [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► improved upon by my co-host John [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► siracusa nosey I'm Dan benjamin this is [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► episode number 33 I'd like to say thanks [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► to easy DNS calm and mailchimp.com for [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► making this show possible and of course [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► as always bandwidth for this episode has [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► been provided by Midas green [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► technologies Virtual Private servers [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► submerged in oil go to mine screen tech [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► comm / 5x5 find out how to get some free [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► bandwidth here we are John its September [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► of 2011 we have you're saying you don't [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► know what we're going to talk about yeah [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► that's gonna Ellis the stuff there's a [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► bunch of links and already in the show [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► thing I didn't put all of them there so [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► you must have put some there may be [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► faith they all I did all I do is think [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► about this show day and night yeah uh I [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► guess I have a little bit of follow up [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► and then we can pick what we want to [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► talk about what handed sure so this is [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► kind of a repeat of last week's [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► follow-up work talked about the 27-inch [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► display that I said with a thirty inch [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► display and I talked about how the URL [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► said slash displays but this is the only [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► one they sell right I was quickly [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► corrected this is not the only one they [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► sell they still sell the old 27-inch [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► that doesn't have Thunderbolt really I'm [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► assuming I'm assuming they do that [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► because there are some Mac's that don't [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► know thunderbolt ports and you I think [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► you can't use the new one where the mac [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► leo is not with under bolt port that was [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► the theory proposed to me I don't know [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► if it's true so you're saying you could [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► go out there today and buy there are two [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► models of the 27-inch but there are no [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► there is no 24 there is no 30 [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► they're just 27-inch variants and one of [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► them has the you know the Ethernet in [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► the fire reports and stuff in the back [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► on the other one and a thunderbolt [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► connector on the other one just has mini [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► DisplayPort which even though it's the [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► same shape connector is actually sort of [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► a different thing mm-hmm [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► so that was the only legitimate piece of [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► I'll whop and then I have a bunch of [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► miscellaneous stuff oh I guess one more [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► thing the Mac Ruby people are still [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► I shouldn't call the macaron people [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► they're not my crew be people there [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► people who doesn't know no they're not [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► and I like involved in the development [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► of Mac Ruby I don't even open am use Mac [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► groupies but see I continue to [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► insistence that it's bridgie like a [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► bridge is come under fire some people [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► saying of it according to my definition [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► of bridge that would make objective-c a [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► bridge or a C+ Objective C sports sauce [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► a bridge I don't want to go through all [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► this again I just find this topic to go [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► away I asked the people who talked to me [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► about on Twitter like so do you think [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► Mac Ruby should be the next language or [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► that it will be and no one has really [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► said that they think it will be and as [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► for should I don't think I got any [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► committers on that either so I'm not [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► quite sure what their objection is if [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► they're they don't think that is any [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► indication that it will be the next [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► language and none of them are willing to [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► say oh yes hundred percent it definitely [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► should be the next language I guess they [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► just don't like me calling it a bridge [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► so maybe I'll pick a different word for [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► it I don't know but we'll see you know [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► this could all come around the WWC 2012 [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► and they announced oh that's the new [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► language I'm sure we'll have a whole big [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► show but that'd be great if they did [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► that I don't know it would be something [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► be different yeah um so what else do we [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► have in the follow up in I just have a [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► bunch of small things that aren't [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► technically follow up that are just many [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► topics so let's go right to figure out [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► what we're going to talk about today I [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► mentioned last week that we could talk [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► about what ails Microsoft and then of [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► course there's markdown lurking there so [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► which one of those interests you is I [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► mean I I could continue to put off the [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► markdown one as long as you would like [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► but uh people seem to be interested in [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► that they seem to like that's the one [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► people crave yeah that's that's the [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► problem with like putting it off it when [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► I put off a topic it's because I don't [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► think it's that interesting it's not [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► because I'm withholding information to [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► try to make people want any more if it [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► was really exciting interesting and [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► needed to be talked about I would talk [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► about it it gets pushed off because I [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► think it's boring and not that great but [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► we'll do it just to get out of the way [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► about that I think it sounds good [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► all right so for the people who don't [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► know what mark [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► down is it is a format for writing text [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► a formalized form of writing text that [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► gives you something in the end so this [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► is created by our friend John Gruber who [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► does talk show you can go to his website [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► during fireball than that slash markdown [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► I believe will redirect you to slash [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► project slash markdown or something but [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► anyway you'll find it and here's the [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► I've have a couple of snippets quoting [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► from his markdown pages rather than me [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► trying to explain it what I think the [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► intention of was he just comes right on [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► says here's what the intention was [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► marked down so this is a quote markdown [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► allows you to write using an easy to [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► read easy to write plain text format [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► then converted to structurally valid [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► XHTML or HTML you can tell how long ago [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► that was written by the fact that he [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► says XHTML which don't really write [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► talks about before hht no no it was [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► XHTML first and then parenthesis or HTML [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► hmm I would think he would need some [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► subscribe place and edit yeah guilty [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► html5 no space so so that's the idea and [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► that if you look at what markdown looks [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► like I'll give you some example so it's [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► like if you write a word with little [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► asterisks around it you know shift date [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► that word will become bold and if you [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► put underscores before and after the [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► word it will become might Alec it's kind [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► of the way people write in emails when [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► they didn't have style text back in the [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► plain text email day so if you wanted to [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► emphasize the word you put the little [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► stars around it well markdown formalizes [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► that and says if you write that and you [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► run it through a markdown processor when [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► we see those little stars we replace [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► them with little bee tags around your [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► thing on same thing with I tags and so [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► on and so forth then of course like it [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► does paragraphs for you so you just type [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► the return key twice to break up [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► paragraphs as you naturally would in a [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► plain text type of email and then the [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► markdown goes through it it puts the [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► little P tags around everything the same [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► thing with header is this little ASCII [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► formats for all this stuff so that it [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► will convert it to HTML [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► here's another quote from the thing so [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► what's what's the point of this why why [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► does this thing exist the overriding [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► design goal for markdowns formatting [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► syntax is to make it as readable as [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► possible the idea is that mark 10 [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► formatted document should be publishable [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► as is as plain text without looking like [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► it's been marked up with tags or [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► formatting instructions so that's very [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► different than a lot of other markup [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► languages like HTML or anything else the [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► idea is that like a plain [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► email or Usenet post from way back when [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► you should be able to take something you [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► wrote in markdown just and just send to [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► someone having read it and not have them [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► say oh my god what the heck is this am I [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► looking at you know raw binary format or [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► is busy view sent someone in HTML [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► document marked up with HTML it's just [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► it's only as to their eyes they wouldn't [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► expect to read it but if you send your [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► mom something written in markdown maybe [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► she wouldn't know what the little stars [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► mean but like eventually you pick up [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► that stuff kind of culturally and you [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► can understand the text and things like [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► the paragraphs is the big point because [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► everybody has paragraphs you hopefully [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► everybody writes paragraphs you write [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► something you had returned twice then [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► you write something else it returned [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► twice and it breaks up your message into [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► a series of paragraphs those aren't [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► marked up and so it's very difficult to [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► come up with a markup language like HTML [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► or anything like that it doesn't at the [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► very least like even if you use no style [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► text no bold no italics just plain text [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► you'd still need the little P tags and [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► that's ugly and confusing people won't [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► go to meet so that's the goal of mark [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► then it should look like it should be [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► usable exactly the way it is it [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► shouldn't just be this like internal [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► compiled format then all your machine is [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► ever meant to read it's human readable [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► alright um [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► and at the very end is the little [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► snippet that from that page I want to [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► point out what he says markdown is two [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► things [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► one applying text formatting syntax and [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► two the software tool written Perl that [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► converts plain text formatting to HTML [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► so he's defined this format and then [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► he's provided this tool that if you take [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► text in this format in feeted to this [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► tool also called markdown or whatever it [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► will spit out HTML or XHTML at your at [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► your preference so as you can imagine [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► there's lots of people use this for [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► various things [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► Gruber uses it to write his blog post [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► you know your rights he writes it he [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► writes in a markdown and then it gets [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► converted into HTML that appears on his [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► web page right and lots of other people [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► use of the same thing like forum posts [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► or you know any place where Stack [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► Overflow is another example or any of [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► those sites those Q&A sites where when [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► you write your question or your answer [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► you write it in markdown format instead [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► of writing in HTML or whatever um all [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► right so lots of people like markdown [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► lots of people use it it's either we [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► shouldn't as there are alternatives to [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► this or there other things people using [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► people [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► or when saying was going to talk about [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► mark then many people were sending me [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► suggestions you should also compare it [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► to X or take a look at Y and see how [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► it's different to Q and Z there have [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► been tons of these formats so one of the [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► ones that comes to mind that I know [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► about I'll talk about later but textile [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► is one of the ones that was mentioned to [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► me there's a couple of markdown variants [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► like multi markdown or lots of [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► alliterations mega markdown bla bla bla [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► like where they take markdown add one or [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► two things they think shouldn't be there [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► or whatever a lot of people like it and [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► a lot of people like to have that [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► feature so if you're writing anything [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► that accepts user input this is an [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► internal problem like back way back in [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► the day when you're writing web [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► applications and evitable you would put [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► a box in front of user and say and then [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► they're going to type their stuff here [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► and people want to type more interesting [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► things than just that unit even though [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► just reflecting text your first problem [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► was I'm going to put a box here and [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► people are going to type stuff and then [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► they're going to hit a button and then [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► what the type is going to appear on my [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► website like that was the beginning of I [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► guess web 1.0 and even if you just do [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► that you can't just take what they type [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► literally like the character sent by the [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► browser and show that on a web page [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► because it'll all run together because [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► white spaces doesn't have the same [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► significance in HTML does inside that [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► text field when you're typing all right [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► exactly very least you have to wrap it [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► in P tags which isn't rocket science but [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► can be done and then if you are a good [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► little web 1.0 programmer you would [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► remember oh yeah and I got to escape all [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► of the characters that are meaningful to [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► HTML so they show up literally so [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► someone writes one less than two doesn't [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► think it's the beginning of a to tag and [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► script the rest of the thing and [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► inevitably people wanted to do because [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► at this point web 1.0 world people had [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► already been on Usenet and stuff like [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► that for a long period of time and these [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► conventions about bold italic and stuff [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► like that had been around for a long [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► time we're not the fact that it was bold [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► but people wanted to write you know I [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► really like this and really has little [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► asterisks on either side of it to [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► emphasize the real right and same thing [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► with the underscores they were less [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► common but those things existed so [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► people would write that in little text [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► boxes and then it would appear on the [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► website and I say you know what this is [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► HTML it's not using that it's not ASCII [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► why why can't that appear as a proper [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► bold tag so eventually the savvy users [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► learn the bold tag is this and they [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► would write you know less than B greater [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► than and then really in less than slash [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► you know B greater than [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► and they would submit it and it would [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► show up on a type a site with a tag [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► strong because the good one web 1.0 [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► program had escaped this stuff and there [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► was I was not what I wanted I wanted to [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► be bold I didn't want to see the little [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► B tags like I did mean obviously when I [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► was typing in the text field I saw the [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► little tags won't appeared on the [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► website I wanted to pee at her as proper [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► styled text and the web 1.0 programmer [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► if he was a little bit naive but say [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► okay sure I'll let you do that I'll stop [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► that escaping thing I'll say okay [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► everybody you have to write HTML in this [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► field or maybe a checkbox it says if [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► you're an expert check this and you can [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► write HTML and I just opened a gigantic [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► can of worms because first of all people [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► know that checkbox does if they don't [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► know HTML so they would check it or not [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► check it or be confused about it and [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► then they would write a less than sign [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► or I you know something they wanted to [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► be a little less than sign and it would [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► screw up their whole post and it would [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► disappear especially back when browsers [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► were bad about recovering from errors [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► writing in HTML you could make the rest [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► of your thing disappear right and then [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► you have like big scary one warning [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► experts only only do this experts [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► experts and then you know that lasts [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► about two weeks until expert figures out [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► you can write like JavaScript : and [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► you're in your image sources and run [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► arbitrary text on people's browsers and [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► I have only secured the exploits and [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► you're making the rest of the page blink [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► and become a marquee here wherever the [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► hell you know right and people start [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► griefing the system so then the poor web [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► pointer for says 1.0 permits is okay [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► you're only allowed to use these tags [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► I'm going to filter it out so you only [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► use these tags but then the people who [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► find the holes in the guys filtering [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► syntax is using regular expressions to [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► try to find anything looks like the [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► beginning of a tag but this guy cleverly [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► hid it with a Unicode entity or whatever [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► it's just in the mess all right forget [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► hTML is out I can't handle it every time [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► I try to get rid of the HTML and only [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► allow B&I tags that people find new ways [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► to sneak in malware and the spam bots [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► are attacking me know HTML not that's it [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► not allowing I'm only going to allow my [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► own cool special languages if you want [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► to do bold stuff put stars around it if [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► you want to do under Stalin underscores [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► and I'll just look for the stars and [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► replace them with eye tag so the only [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► tags it will be in there are the ones [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► that I put there and I'm only going to [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► put in I tags I'm going to put a bee [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► tags and P tags with no attributes end [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► of story and you do that and then [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► someone says well I also want to make [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► links ok well here's a new syntax for [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► you to make links put this thing here [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► and put that over there and you can make [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► a link and so on and so forth [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► and you end up inventing your own little [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► language and one of the earliest one of [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► those is BB code I don't even know what [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► the BB is is Bolton board but [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► yeah one that for for doing like the PHP [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► BB stuff [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► I don't think PHP BB was the first [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► there's a whole series of bulletin board [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► software like forums where you know you [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► would put a post and someone else put [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► suppose someone so forth and appears on [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► a page and they didn't want you to write [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► any HTML for these same reasons that we [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► have our own syntax which has grown to [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► this gigantic monster so you know HTML [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► uses less than a greater than but we [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► used left square bracket and right [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► square bracket it's totally different [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► and when you want to do a link in BB [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► code its left square bracket you know [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► URL equals your URL right square bracket [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► blah blah I is less square bracket I [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► write square bracket and you know do the [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► same thing with the ending tag left [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► square bracket slash I right square [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► bracket to do with italic it's so they [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► made their own language there was [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► basically HTML but ugly or poorly [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► specified but had square brackets was [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► totally different so it was safe in that [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► you could you know you weren't letting [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► people write HTML but you still have to [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► go through and find all the square [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► brackets and replace them with the HTML [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► and so on and so forth idea the idea was [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► that that would somehow safer than doing [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► HTML and just whitelisting the tags that [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► you were allowed to do because I don't [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► know why they thought it was better like [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► in practice it generally was because [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► they would they knew what they were [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► inserting they were all if you were [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► careful when you only inserted eye tags [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► B tags and P tags and you never inserted [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► any text inside those tags that was [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► provided by the user you could be [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► relatively sure that they weren't [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► sticking anything weird interior HTML [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► tags and you could just totally disallow [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► you know and escape but less than signs [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► and stuff like that so that probably [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► seems safer to them but what inevitably [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► happens is the language grows they say [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► okay if they write a URL tag I'm going [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► to let them do name value pairs as [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► attributes and I'm just going to stick [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► those attributes into my a href tag and [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► then once you allow tainted user input [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► into your HTML that you're producing on [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► the page you're back at the same [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► situation again so it's not an [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► inherently saver strategy is just the [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► way they started implementing it was [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► initially safer and make still be so BB [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► code is very popular lots of variants in [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► that this square bracket colon smiley [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► whatever like you can do tons of little [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► weird [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► animated gif characters like the [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► language expanded is probably bigger [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► than HTML at this point with the number [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► of weird formatting things you can do [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► markdown was kind of like a reaction to [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► that where if you're going to pick some [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► format you know it [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► Gruber I would imagine didn't want to [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► write in HTML obviously I would have [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► just done that but you know the existing [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► ones just seemed like too much I could [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► be read a Coast opposed in bbcode it can [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► look like it's marked up like it looks [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► like a cube of square practice and it's [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► not it's not nice you couldn't send a BB [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► code formatted really complicated thing [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► to your mother and expect her to read it [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► like oh that's just a nice D mail if you [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► like what are these square brackets and [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► these long things all over the place [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► something like that yeah it doesn't look [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► like text so markdown there's minimal it [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► this is what differentiated I think it [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► might have been the first one to do this [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► to reject the notion that I'm going to [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► create a language that's not HTML but [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► lets you do almost everything that you [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► can do in HTML markdown explicitly does [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► not let you do almost everything you can [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► do in HTML I as a very limited syntax [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► and the other thing about Mark now is [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► like since he's using it to his post he [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► says well but I'm not trying to protect [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► myself from myself right he's not [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► concerned he's going to do something [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► right so it also lets you just write [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► HTML in a markdown post you can okay and [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► now I'm going to write HTML right I see [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► is not it's not a security exploit so [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► this is and now obviously once you start [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► doing that it becomes you know it's not [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► as readable as possible it's not [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► publishable as is in the sense that [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► someone can look at the plaintext and [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► view it but that's the that's the [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► pragmatic part of the the language that [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► you're allowed to write HTML but it but [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► you shouldn't have to because the things [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► you want to do 90% of the time there's [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► some nice syntax for word that would [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► look fine if you just showed it to [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► somebody so as I mentioned in earlier [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► discussions of this topic [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► I don't like markdown and I use it and [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► people want to hear me explain why I [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► think you get some exciting thing it's [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► not that exciting because it's not the [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► markdown as bad everything I described [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► makes it a novel and very popular with a [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► lot of people because it was I it was at [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► least one of the first popular formats [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► to take this particular philosophical [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► stance about not expanding to be the [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► language to do everything but also allow [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► you to HTML and stuff like that so [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► that's that's what made a novel and [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► probably you know the popularity of [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► during fireball and so on and so forth [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► or so kind of got that Network effecting [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► snowballs and lot of people use it [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► and if you use it and like it and it [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► suits your needs good I'm not going I'm [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► not arguing to try to dissuade you from [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► using something that you like but I will [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► explain why I don't use it and I don't [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► think that's it I don't think I'm a [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► common case or for a lot of purposes for [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► the common people I think it is probably [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► the best choice like for example for [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► Stack Overflow or maybe not Stack [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► Overflow but there's a whole bunch of [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► Stack Exchange sites that are Q&A sites [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► about other topics besides programming [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► is that there's a site for bicycle [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► enthusiasts and they don't know anything [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► about programming and they shouldn't be [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► expected to know I understand HTML [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► markdown is probably the right level for [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► just general type into an input box and [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► your simple rules you need to know to do [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► stuff it has enough where a new person [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► will eventually learn for example how to [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► make a hyperlink and they can overcome [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► that hurdle but if they don't know that [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► in the beginning they can just write the [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► way they normally would and it will work [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► out fine so why don't like the same [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► reason I like bbcode which could picked [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► up before with my little rant about the [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► square brackets is that I already know [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► HTML and I knew HTML way back in the day [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► ah so why would I want to learn your [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► other language that's like HTML but with [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► different syntax and there are 10,000 of [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► these language that's BB code and [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► textiles on and so forth it's just one [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► more thing for me to learn and that the [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► results going to be HTML anyway I don't [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► want to spend the time to learn your [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► particular syntax that's mostly true of [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► BB code mark now it's like what you'll [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► you know this index these are the things [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► you were doing in plain text I'm using [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► that in 1992 anyway it's not like you [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► need to learn anything and you got again [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► the philosophical difference where this [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► is not supposed to be as big as HTML is [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► not that much to learn why not just use [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► markdown the way you want I still find [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► myself want to use HTML even for stuff [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► like linking because the big attribute [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► of markdown lets it be readable as plain [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► text so you can put little square [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► bracket identifies next to the words you [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► want to be linked or around them or [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► whatever and not have the URL that you [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► potentially giant URL inline in the text [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► because any time you start getting URLs [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► in line in the text it becomes [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► unreadable like you're reading a [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► sentence and all of a sudden this [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► could be hundreds of characters [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► literally but some big giant URL I want [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► to get that out of there so it's like a [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► footnote type thing and then if you want [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► to see what that links do and again [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► people would do this in using that when [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► they typed in plain text they would they [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► would say if they would make reference [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► to a particular thing put a little [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► footnote at the bottom of the document [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► there would be a little numbered or [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► lettered list of footnotes that say this [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► the split uh links to here this footnote [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► links are there so on so forth because [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► people weren't doing HTML and Usenet and [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► so that's what Mark and DUHS gets the [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► links out of your text uh now that's [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► only important if you expect people to [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► read your what it is that you wrote with [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► the links in and for my purposes and [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► anything that I do that's that's never [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► the case even you know said well don't [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► you proofread what you write as we [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► discussed on the show by writing I don't [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► proofread it by reading the HTML that I [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► typed i proofread it by looking at VV at [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► its preview window or in a browser or [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► something like that that's not just [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► because well obviously you have to do [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► that because your source is all littered [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► up with a href things that wrap on seven [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► lines you know you can't read it that's [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► why you should use mark now that's not [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► the only reason i read separately read [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► separately for that reason we just [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► before is like when you when you're [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► proofreading your own writing it change [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► of venue a change of font to change of [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► margins a change where the wrapping is [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► and where the word breaks are will make [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► you find errors more readily for example [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► if you're missing a word at the very end [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► of a line it's very easy to miss that [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► when you're proofreading because you [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► read what you meant to write and quickly [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► your eyes go to the next line and you [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► keep going but when it rear apps and [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► that's in the middle of the line you [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► notice that you missed you know what - [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► or though or something in the middle of [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► the line like that and same thing with [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► the fonts when you see something in a [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► different context like above the [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► proportional font versus fixed because [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► i'm writing and BBEdit [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► in a fixed-width font bow and i see it [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► proportional as it's going to appear it [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► your mind changes you're able to find [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► your errors more easily so that [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► particular advantage of markdown doesn't [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► help me and the disadvantage i think is [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► that i find it harder to make sure that [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► a particular board links to a particular [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► links to the right place with the [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► footnote thing because you can do [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► numbers or you can do words so your [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► numbers then you get like the basic [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► thing where you got to leave gaps of 10 [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► or something or make sure you don't [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► repeat a number or what if you want to [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► do a different number here i did 1 2 3 [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► but then I got to put 4 right after 1 [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► because I forgot that I wanted to link [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► this word so I'm not use number use [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► words once use words you start to get [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► typos [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► it's like all I mistyped this word or [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► thought I call this link this someone [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► number the bottom the document putting [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► the URLs [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► I'm not spelling it right you know I'd [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► rather be able to look it because I do [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► look at the source to make sure my links [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► are okay I look at the source and see [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► you know triple W apple.com slash [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► displays is where I wanted to link for [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► this displays where you know you'd have [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► to read the whole URL but just you can [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► just glance that and see yeah I linked [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► this word to by thinking linked it [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► whereas if you have the if you have the [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► thing you're linking and the URL that [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► corresponds to widely-separated you have [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► to go back and forth with your eyes even [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► if we would have splitter in you got to [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► make sure they things match up [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► everything like that I find that more [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► cumbersome and yeah I guess you could [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► put the HTML and just mouse over every [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► single link and I'll kind of do that too [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► but I do look at the market ball I'm [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► typing it I just find it easier to while [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► I'm typing type the phrase that I want [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► to link and then select it quickly and [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► do I don't know which of those was a [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► ctrl command a and BB edit and then [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► paste in the URL and that it makes it [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► does all the age rough stuff for me it's [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► not like I'm typing left square that [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► left the the grid in less than signs [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► manually though sometimes I do do that [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► there are shortcuts in my editor that [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► make that not too cumbersome so the [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► second thing that makes me kind of fuzzy [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► on markdown even for the people who do [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► use it is that it has the same problem [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► that Perl Ruby Python I guess a lot of [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► these modern scripting languages have is [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► that not so much JavaScript because [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► JavaScript it's an exception but Perl [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► for example doesn't have a language spec [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► I don't think Ruby and Python do either [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► as in like a formal document that you [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► give to somebody and they say this [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► describes language like JavaScript has [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► one you know the echo standard this is [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► JavaScript and you could take that spec [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► and write an implementation that [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► conforms to that spec same thing you do [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► with seasoned tons of people make C [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► compilers is a C spec and I'll see 99 or [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► whatever if you want to make a c99 [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► compiler this thing explains exactly how [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► you do it and and that it's like it's [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► independent of the implementation it's [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► it's a spec disk defined abstractly the [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► Perl is not perl is an executable [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► written in C that when you feed it a [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► text file it interprets it as pro code [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► and it runs and what is Perl like the [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► lower case Perl prl is the executable [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► that runs your stuff capital letter P [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► is the language itself but the language [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► itself doesn't have a defined spec as a [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► test suite that comes with a particular [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► version of Perl but it's not you [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► couldn't give someone a spec for Perl [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► and say okay now make your own [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► implementation of Perl and all you need [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► to know is the spec you don't need to [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► look at our implementation of it you [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► just need the spec and if you conform to [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► the spec you will be compliant that's [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► not true of Perl I don't think it's true [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► of Ruby and Python either they have [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► they're defined by their implementations [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► so markdown as we mentioned it they the [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► last little thing I quoted it's two [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► things it's the formatting syntax but [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► it's also the software tool and really [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► that official implementation if you had [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► to find what is markdown it's it's [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► whatever ajamgarh is marked down dot PL [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► does now tons of other people have made [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► alternate implementations of markdown in [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► tons of languages JavaScript and Ruby [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► and PHP and everything is even alternate [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► alternate implementation in Perl I [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► believe and the multi markdown in the [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► various variants of markdown so this [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► whole world of things and they all have [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► the word marked down in them but they [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► don't all behave the same and the main [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► reason it'll behave the same is it is [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► not a spec and be the official [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► implementation isn't isn't really a [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► parser it's just a series a regular [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► expression sort of successively applied [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► and there's lots of heuristics in there [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► and you know Gruber changes his mind [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► occasionally it fixes bugs and so on and [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► so forth so markdown if you want to [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► define it the only real definition you [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► could say it's whatever markdown dot PL [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► does that's markdown and that has [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► changed over time and oh well so saying [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► that you're going to make a tool or [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► something that conforms to mark that [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► that uses markdown it's kind of [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► meaningless unless you say well what do [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► you mean by that what implementation of [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► markdown are using and what extensions [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► are applied to that thing it's not like [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► it's hTML is the same problem at least [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► there are a standard specs for that it's [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► that that just bothers me is that it's [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► an ill-defined thing and if I was going [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► to build a tool based on it I have to [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► pick my implementation and in my in my [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► interface that I've set you can put [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► markdown in this box and they expect [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► that everyone who reads that like [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► understands to have to explain like okay [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► well it's marked down but it's actually [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► this variant of markdown it's this [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► particular implementation if you're if [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► you're used to using markdown some other [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► tool that uses a different [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► implementation maybe the thing you're [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► going to do is going to behave [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► differently because there's all sorts of [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► weird edge cases and except like it's [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► not I it's not really a deterministic [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► type of thing especially over over the [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► long [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► term where you can make form make things [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► that could possibly confuse and markdown [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► and you could file them as a bug do [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► Gruber and say hey when I do this this [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► thing really should be italic but it [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► interprets the underscore incorrectly [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► went in this particular context it [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► doesn't make a bulleted list this way [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► ball blog can you fix that for me and if [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► he spot fixes your pet bug who's to say [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► you didn't introduce a change in [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► behavior that affects somebody else [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► because somebody else are in another [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► construct it was actually behaving a [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► different way without having a formal [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► spec in a real parser it makes it [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► difficult to rely on markdown the same [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► way you might rely on say you know HTML [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► for point out which is well defined now [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► in reality this is not much of a problem [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► because in reality even though this [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► there's a spec for HTML 4 doesn't mean [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► that everyone's going to comply do it [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► because it's big and complicated and in [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► reality where it counts most [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► implementations to mark nouns behave the [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► same way and there are the extension [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► ones make it clear that I'm not marked [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► down I'm marked down plus XY and Z and [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► minus PQ n R but it does make me wary to [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► for example put all my life's work in [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► markdown format with the expectation [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► that the HTML generated from them today [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► will be the same as the HTML generated [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► from them tomorrow I would even be wary [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► do that even if I was John Gruber and I [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► controlled the markdown in Poland Asian [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► because unless you never change the [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► market and implementation you could you [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► know five years from now [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► make some new construct that you want to [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► add put it in your mark 10 dot PL and [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► now realize that it breaks links and on [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► some of your older content where you to [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► run it through the markdown generator [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► again so I think that's about it for our [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► markdown like I'm not I'm not anti [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► markdown or against markdown I just [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► don't use it because it doesn't fit what [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► I do now like I said I'm not I'm not a [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► common case most people are not [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► completely comfortable in HTML and don't [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► have even know the tool exists like VB [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► edit where you can see a real-time [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► preview of the HTML that you're writing [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► and so on and so forth [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► so it is appropriate for lots of [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► applications and people like it good for [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► them it's just not for me well you said [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► that specs there is no official spec so [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► that's that's fine but specs and [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► standards of rendering change all the [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► time I mean the HTML that people wrote [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► years [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► to go might or might not look the way [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► they intended to in a 2011 browser [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► that's not really an I mean it should [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► that's a knock against HTML but hTML is [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► much more complicated but you could in [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► theory let's just say you have something [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► was written for HTML 3.2 if you if you [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► ever wanted that to always display [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► correctly you've got the HTML 3.2 a spec [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► and you could say well according to the [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► HTML 3.0 spec this is how it should be [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► displayed so in theory you could you [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► know programmatically sale this is HTML [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► 3.2 at the HTML 3 bun to spec I will use [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► the HTML 3.2 renderer and it will never [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► change how it looks because I'm not [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► using a renderer called HTML you know [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► I'm rendering according to several [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► different specs now in practice that's [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► much fuzzier than that because like [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► quirks mode and standards mode it's not [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► as granular as like I know exactly which [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► spec this is so I'm going to fire up [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► this particular spec renderer but there [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► are gradations in there where old [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► content is treated one day a new newer [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► content read another in html5 is treated [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► yet another way because html5 actually [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► defines the error conditions and stuff [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► like that but with markdown it's not [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► like it's versioned it's not like you're [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► indicating to the parser what version [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► like there's no doctype header and [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► there's not I don't think the format [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► itself is even version so you couldn't [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► say well I wrote this in 2006 and 2006 [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► the current version of the markdown spec [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► was x y&z so I'm going to parse it [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► according to those rules you know what I [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► mean you wouldn't be content though if [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► you just had your own you say ok you [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► know what I'm going to use this version [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► of markdown and this is what I'm going [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► to stick with for all the stuff that I [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► do and I don't care if they change the [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► implementation later or not this is what [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► I use this is what I use I'm happy with [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► it yeah hopefully your personal use that [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► that will mostly be ok but even in your [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► personal use like I said you might be [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► tempted a year later to add some new [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► GIGO especially if it's your own [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► implementation in your program you're [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► like oh actually I just want to have [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► this new format word and you put a [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► Unicode smiley face around words it [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► makes them blink or something and maybe [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► not that but like I want to be able to [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► do nested lists with a mouse over [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► something or like I don't know you want [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► to add something and you and you to do [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► it you'd modify your implementation not [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► understanding that it may possibly [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► change the way things in the past are [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► rendered it's also not an issue by the [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► way if you have markdown source that [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► you're generally HTML from the HTML is [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► never regenerate it if you're generated [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► it once [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► fine you know but if you're relying on [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► the fact that you can regenerate it [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► later yeah you could read you regenerate [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► it would look exactly the same then you [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► need some sort of comprehensive test [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► suite to make sure that you're not [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► regressing yeah [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► without a spec for languages like a [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► zebra HTML which has a spec and all you [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► know it's very difficult to define like [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► the markdown wants to be sort of do what [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► I mean and that's why it is the way it [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► is pearls is a similar type of way you [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► want it to just kind of like read your [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► mind right so it's very difficult to [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► write down a formal spec but that's what [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► you the easiest formal spec to do and [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► implement is the one that doesn't behave [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► nicely the one that just behaves like a [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► machine like though that's stupid that's [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► not what I want obviously when I do this [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► I want it to be this but when I do that [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► you know if a human looked at they could [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► tell so why can't you tell and you say [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► well if we just define it one particular [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► way it's really easy for the machine to [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► implement and they said that's a crappy [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► format I'm gonna use markdown because [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► that's what I want those are the most [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► dangerous things to modify because the [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► that do what I mean is them and those [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► exceptions and special cases and stuff [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► like that like look at the marking on [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► that PL implementation you can see [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► comments in there and stuff that are [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► like it could of showing that it's [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► trying to work it's trying to be ugly [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► inside so that the outside is beautiful [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► it's one of those that a programmer [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► motto that the idea that when you're [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► writing a library you are going to write [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► the most horrendous horrible like you [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► can unroll loops you're going to [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► structure it weirdly it's going to be [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► community so that the users of your API [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► don't have to see this ugliness like [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► you're going to do all the sand we [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► checking and Marshall everything and so [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► on and so forth where you know you make [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► a wall and you say I'm going to provide [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► you what looks like a magical service [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► and inside I might have to do some ugly [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► things but you don't have to know about [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► them as just that's my problem you do a [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► series of those layers you get a much [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► nice tool so you want your tool to do [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► that for you you don't want to the tool [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► to say I am Lisp you can use you know [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► everything is data show me your [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► parentheses and anything else you want [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► to build on that you have to build up [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► from zero you it's nice to have tools [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► that do all these fancy things the [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► inside for you but those are the most [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► difficult tools to modify it's much [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► easier when you push that onto the the [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► user to modify them and be sure you're [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► not changing the way it will behave down [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► the line again none of these things [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► should be there's a like oh this is why [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► you shouldn't use markdown if markdown [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► works for you to definitely use it and [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► it does have a lot of qualities that [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► make it better than bbcode and [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► those other past formers I don't know [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► anything about textile knows I looked at [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► the briefly they seem to not have the [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► philosophy that the thing should be [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► readable as is if you can mail the tear [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► mom so I think that's still definitely [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► distinction of markdown you know you [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► know in the chat room says that Python [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► does have a language spec Ruby does not [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► and if anything that's a knock against [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► Python other alternate implementations [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► of Python then I mean there's alternate [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► implications of Ruby but they're not [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► it's not based on a spec but you know [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► they're just based on let's do whatever [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► in the real Ruby well the defect that a [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► facto implementation is is the one Matz [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► did that's just the consider that room [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► said there are multiple inflammations of [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► Python that's interesting I see that as [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► a knock against Python easy DNS comm [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► since 1998 easy DNS has been helping [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► people register web address transfer [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► domain set up the email forwarding in a [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► course manage their DNS now listen this [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► is this is my advice in take it or not [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► you take it or not but I highly [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► recommend you decouple your DNS from [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► from your your especially if you use one [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► of the kind of run-of-the-mill [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► registrar's which by the way I do [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► there's nothing wrong with that but I [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► recommend you de couple your DNS from [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► that D couple your DNS from your your [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► hosting provider not because they don't [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► do a good job that's fine but one day [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► you may say you know what this host has [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► been an excellent host for the last five [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► years but you know I'm ready to do [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► something different I want to do [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► something different I it it becomes a [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► little bit of a challenge to control [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► your DNS and to control that migration [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► if your previous host is running the DNS [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► especially if they're running it for you [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► and it's out of your control oh well [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► here you say this is where you say well [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► I don't know I don't want to learn DNS I [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► don't want to worry about how to and I [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► just I'd like that simple form will [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► guess what [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► easy DNS has all that to and the genius [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► is here you can switch hosts you can [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► switch registrar's you can do whatever [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► you want completely independent of your [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► DNS that you control it you control with [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► a simple form or you can have them help [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► you do it real people answer the phone [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► when you call then don't read scripts [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► they just want to help you with your [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► problems they just want to help things [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► move along swimmingly you [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► easy DNS comm / 5x5 and you will learn [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► more about special deals and and just [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► general good stuff for 5x5 listeners so [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► that's easy DNS comm / 5x5 and you know [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► what I should mention this too they're [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► probably way more secure and way more [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► reliable and have way more redundancy [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► than pretty much anybody else out there [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► whether to registrar another DNS [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► provider so go check them out love those [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► guys [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► I'm looking at the alternative [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► implementations of Python page that was [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► posted in a thing and I should be these [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► from back in the day yeah cuz yeah you [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► used to do Python no it was one of the [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► first languages to get try to get on top [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► of the JVM and that ironpython and [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► python Frenette and all that business [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► yeah although this page they linked to [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► me they said it was the language spec it [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► looks just like a reference to me [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► there's a difference between a thing [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► that explains the language like a [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► reference and and a spec for implement [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► implementers you know what I mean like [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► the I don't know this helped the ECMO [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► scripts standard it's not you don't read [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► that when you want to learn how to [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► program in JavaScript you read that when [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► you want to make a JavaScript [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► implementation or as this Python [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► language reference looks like it's [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► written for people who want to learn how [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► to write Python it's not written for [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► people want to learn how to implement [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► Python huh I guess it's a fine line and [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► it does look reasonably comprehensive [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► but the implementation one is filled [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► with like all those HTML spec w3c things [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► of like implications must do this and [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► should do that in this case you know [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► this is this case is undefined and so on [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► and so forth whereas this is like if you [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► want to write Python here's the syntax [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► here's I use these different constructs [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► but the purpose isn't putting there's [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► multiple mutations again it's multiple [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► imitations of Ruby as well usually [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► running on top of different VMs like the [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► JVM or CLR and stuff like that but [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► there's other things as well where [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► people try to write I probably done a [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► few times dude I tried to rewrite it and [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► C++ or do alternate C implementations or [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► write a version of it that runs on top [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► of other type of VM environment some of [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► them been successful now Perl 6 is [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► different Perl 6 doesn't have a spec so [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► much as it has it's decided that it's [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► definition is we're going to make a test [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► suite and if your language passes this [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► test suite you are officially Perl 6 but [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► and your implementation can be whatever [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► you can write it in you know read it and [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► write your implementation [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► five right your invitation and [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► JavaScript you don't care you pass the [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► test week you are considered Perl 6 so [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► that's a different way to go at it we're [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► like we can't be bothered to write a [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► language spec we're going to write a [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► language reference but our spec is this [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► humongous test suite and I would imagine [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► that's true of these alternate [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► implemented as well like how do they [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► tell they've done it successfully well [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► they probably have a series of tests or [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► the test suite from the language itself [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► and I said well we'll run the actual [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► implementation of Ruby or Python against [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► it and them over on our thing and see if [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► we get the same results I remember it [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► was awhile I was exciting when they [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► first Ruby implantation that wasn't MRI [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► that wasn't Matz's Ruby interpreter I [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► was first able to run rails because in [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► the beginning when they were it's sort [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► of infants that like well it's Ruby but [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► we can't quite one we're and rails yet [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► because we we don't have this corner [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► case exactly the same way as the real [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► interpreter doesn't and eventually to [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► get up to speed was able to run rails [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► was a big day big day for the rails [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► community yeah that a long time ago yeah [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► live feels like not that long but it was [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► Ruby nice was that the first one to do [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► it no I don't like say just saying it [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► would be a maglev has got the best name [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► it's a cool name all right so that's [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► markdown OC I thought that'd be wasn't [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► that bad I was not exciting yeah I I for [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► the record do use markdown I use textile [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► as well no it doesn't really matter to [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► me do you when you use the the mark [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► nothing do you ever have this problem is [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► I've tried use markdown a few times and [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► this was maybe goes away after user for [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► all the thing of like keeping track of [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► what links to where since they're [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► separated in the footnotes does that [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► ever bother you at all I'd well see I [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► don't do it that style I do inline links [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► yeah so once you're doing inline links [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► that argues is like well the line I just [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► write especially again you haven't [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► gotten into all the little keyboard [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► shortcuts the BBEdit does a baby yet it [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► has a big set of shortcuts then you can [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► define for a quickly adding markup like [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► you don't have to write the tags [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► yourself obviously there's menu commands [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► and palettes and all that stuff for [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► BBEdit for doing markup but that's [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► slower than typing in most of the cases [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► what you really need to do is eventually [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► figure out what are the six or seven [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► tags or constructs that you use most [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► frequently and assign them to keyboard [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► shortcuts and eventually those keyboard [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► shortcuts get drilled in and that's just [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► so much faster than right and I think [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► you do the same thing with markdown but [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► again once I start once I start doing [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► stuff in line like [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► I'm like why aren't I just writing HTML [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► because now now it's unreadable to me [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► now I can't look at I have no chance [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► looking at it in mine well Stan Siddhant [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► it's an interesting argument that you [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► make but you also kind of have the [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► assumption that people are always and [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► you know what I think you're right by [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► the way this is probably an accurate [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► assumption to make most of the time but [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► the assumption that you make is that [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► people will be using the same tool [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► configured the same way everywhere that [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► they go so that means if they have you [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► know one one computer that they do all [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► their stuff on they can they can [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► configure everything and it's just going [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► to work great but what if you got a [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► Windows machine of work and an iPad that [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► you travel around with and a Mac at home [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► and an iPhone with you and you know what [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► you may want to write in a consistent [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► way across the board doing you know I'm [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► not again I'm not I'm neither a defender [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► of Nora [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► you know anti markdown but using [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► something like that where you don't have [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► to set up and remember and I'm the type [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► of guy that the fewer the fewer [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► customizations I can make to my in [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► development or writing environment the [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► better so you would find on my machine [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► there is ZERO customization there's zero [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► keyboard shortcuts that I've done with [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► one exception I would I like for either [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► launch bar or Quicksilver which you got [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► me using again I either one of those I [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► like it to be command space so I will [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► disable the built-in command space [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► spotlight activator just by unchecking [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► the box that's like the only slightly [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► keyboard related modification that I [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► will make to this stock OS 10 [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► implementation that's it I don't do any [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► keyboard command I don't do any [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► application specific keyboard commands I [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► don't have triggers I don't have macros [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► I don't install services why not they [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► save so much time why because I can sit [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► down at any computer any time whether [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► they're one of the dozen computers in [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► this office or my mom's computer my [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► wife's computer whatever and I have [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► essentially the exact same environment [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► so I'm going to take the burden on [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► myself if I want to write something and [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► I want to do markup now maybe I'll use [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► textile or markdown or even just HTML [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► but [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► I will type it all I remember I was [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► doing a screencast for Jeffrey gross and [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► Bach and I was typing out the HTML while [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► I was filming and he says oh you should [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► really just you don't let let textmate [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► do that for you don't type it out you [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► know textmate has the things built in as [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► you type you thing he's like why aren't [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► you doing that like not like you're [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► stupid you should do it but just he was [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► curious and I said you know I don't use [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► them in practice I don't ever use them [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► in practice and he's like well that's [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► one of the big time-saver is a text - [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► yeah but you know for me I just I maybe [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► I'm old-fashioned but I like that [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► portability I'll take the burden on [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► myself mentally mentally rather than [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► take the time to create all of these [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► things because if I were to then go and [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► sit down in front of a completely [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► vanilla machine which happens to me [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► frequently regularly then I'm like oh [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► man where my keyboard shortcuts I got to [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► set all those up oh I don't have all [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► these dot files they use etc whereas I [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► just walk over there sit down and start [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► typing and it you know if I if it's [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► going to go through markdown I remember [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► everything I need to know about that or [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► HTML so you think of the situation where [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► you could be that happens to me be them [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► the most primitive situation you could [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► possibly be in where you are without [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► your tools without your comfort [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► environment it's like the worst case [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► there that's me every day that the time [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► where you where you have most the most [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► possible impediments to your efficiency [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► right every day that's and that's how [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► you want to work all the time not that's [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► how I frequently find myself what you're [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► doing is you're finding this illusion [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► that you can use in the least efficient [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► situation like your level efficiency [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► you're pushing you say that the worst [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► case scenario I'm gonna live like that [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► all what you know what could be better [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► I'm going to lower my efficiency [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► artificially to the worst possible case [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► scenario so that it's consistent that [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► sounds about right because I find myself [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► in that situation very frequently I'm [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► often using a computer that's not mine [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► or that's not set up or they can't be [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► set up or that doesn't have BBEdit [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► auditors and the other thing is like I [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► still have to make an update to [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► something if the mark that argument only [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► works in that case if every source that [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► you're going to shove text into [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► understands markdown if it doesn't then [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► you then you're constantly in need of [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► the two of you know markdown PL or some [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► other tool that converts your markdown [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► page true that's true or you just type [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► it in HTML I think it's important to [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► know how to use the default emulation [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► for example I know [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► how to get into VI yeah but you would [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► fit first rapping you wouldn't feel [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► frustrated using VI oh right but I know [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► how to do it like if I'm on a machine [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► that doesn't have Emacs I can use VI and [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► Emacs I have all sorts of custom [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► bindings from from back in my days in [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► Emacs but I know what the default [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► bindings are so if I'm a customer Xin [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► don't have to but I don't want to lower [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► my efficiency to that well because 99% [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► of the time I'm working on my one home [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► computer in one more computer and I put [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► in the time at a time to set them up but [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► yes I think I think we should say makes [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► more sense I'm just yeah yeah I mean if [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► that's your average your if most of the [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► time you're not on a computer that you [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► you know you're on a strange computer [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► then yeah you just have to that because [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► I deal with it I just don't think [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► configuring your environment to be [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► although here's the one case that you [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► mentioned that I think is uh definitely [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► real if I'm typing on an iOS device [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► where I don't have a real keyboard you [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► do not want to be type in HTML and iOS [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► device cool shoot yourself in the head [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► so markdown is like are anything like [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► you want these against them anything is [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► better than that so yeah definitely on [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► an iOS device it suddenly becomes like [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► shifted characters no you don't want to [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► do them even putting little stars for [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► markdown it's a paid but P tags forget [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► it never likes just it's impossible you [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► know so in that case I would definitely [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► say if there's a that's like an ideal [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► environment for a minimalist you know [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► very few formatting characters I don't [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► have to type anything the type of thing [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► right and who knows maybe group is doing [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► a lot of us posting for my pets these [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► days are pecking stuff out in this I [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► know I know uses his phone waiting in a [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► lot of stuff store this is part of his [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► cover he probably wouldn't you know this [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► some I've figured out over over over the [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► years I've known him is he'll go on he [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► goes on fit I mean like I thought you [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► went on vacation he's on vacation [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► constantly but you'd never mean [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► technically how can you tell how you [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► can't tell because what he does he has [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► his eyes like was a vacation he's well I [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► can't argue that but he's he's out there [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► he he'll be out there you know on a boat [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► or wherever he is and he'll be he'll be [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► posting so I guess it's not really the [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► same kind of vacation and people take [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► when they completely turn everything off [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► its travel he's away from his house he's [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► traveling he's traveling and under the [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► guise of but it's all secret you never [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► really know it because he's still [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► posting links and everything he just [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► does it from his phone and once in a [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► while you can catch him once here's how [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► you know if you want to get really fancy [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► this is how you can figure out the [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► secret little secret I can figure out [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► when he's when he's gone is if if you're [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► really on top of things and you read the [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► links on the show pondering fireball [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► once in a while one of them it'll be the [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► mobile version of the website instead of [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► the regular version they'll be like MDOT [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► whatever you know you'll see that you'll [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► look at you look at your browser like [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► why does it look like crap oh this is [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► the mobile version that's a dead [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► giveaway that he's posting on the road [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► he doesn't done that in a while but you [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► know does get the autocomplete me that [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► was another thing if you look for the [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► autocomplete autocorrect yeah things [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► although with Lion now get a washout on [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► my quest any month becomes less of a [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► differentiator so there's something else [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► I want to talk to you about I mean you [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► may have other things on this list I [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► didn't but God well let me do the we'll [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► do our second sponsor it's MailChimp we [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► love MailChimp these are these the easy [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► email newsletter guys and they will help [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► you design your newsletters they'll help [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► you share them on social networks [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► they'll help you integrate with services [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► you already use and they track the [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► results it's like this is their term but [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► I like it they call it a personal [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► publishing platform that's what they are [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► and here's the thing I don't know how [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► they do this and I've said this in the [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► spots before but it really is [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► mind-boggling to me twelve thousand [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► emails per month every month for free [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► forever so you can you can do that you [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► can send twelve thousand emails a month [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► I know I don't know how this is free but [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► it is free you can check them out at [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► MailChimp com [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► there's never been a better time to sign [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► up than right now I think they just [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► acquired tiny letter dot-com which was [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► basically it was like mailed it was like [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► what the little single gap that [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► MailChimp had in their arsenal of tools [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► which was like tiny little letters for [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► like small individual things as opposed [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► to stuff for companies they got them now [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► they're in there now so you can go check [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► that out mailchimp.com love those guys [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► big supporters of the show to hear [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► something is this just came out it's a [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► you know we don't really talk about [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► rumors and this isn't like a rumor show [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► uh but the this rumor came out and that [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► bloomberg is running in there I guess [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► they're credible right [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► sure usually a pretty good success rate [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► well the this is all presupposed on top [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► of a rumor anyway but sprint which is uh [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► for those who are not in the united [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► states it's i think it's a third largest [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► us wireless carrier and they will be [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► selling the iphone 5 in mid-october [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► and they have a deal with apple where [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► they are going to try and distinguish [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► themselves apparently by providing [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► unlimited data service or as you would [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► say data uh for for their you know [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► that's going to be the big [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► differentiator with with sprint so this [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► is all you know supposed and stuff but [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► there was a question that came up on one [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► of the one of the previous shows one of [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► the other shows i did i forget if it was [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► the one i did at the talk show with john [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► or if it was with marco but we were [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► talking about Sprint the Sprint is a [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► CDMA technology just like Verizon right [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► I think so ok so you know about this [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► because you're like a you know fancy [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► engineer whatever is there a different [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► CDMA radio then I heard you talking [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► different radio versus just tuned is it [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► like you go in your car and you turn you [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► turn tune the radio from 98.7 to 101.1 [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► the only thing I know about si am I ever [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► suggest I was what I learned and as an [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► undergraduate ages ago so CDMA little [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► van code division multiple access and it [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► has to do with the the signals being [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► sent and each receiver decodes it [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► according to their code that's assigned [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► to them to get their signal out from the [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► mix of other thanks I don't even know [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► what GSM does I think it's packets and I [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► think it doesn't use you know will take [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► seven different signals combined them [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► into one so that and then on the [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► receiving end they'll be differentiated [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► from each other but what it comes down [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► to for GSM versus CDMA is that there's [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► different chips in there it's not like [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► the pic they call it the radio it is the [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► thing that does the radio transmission [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► but something has to receive [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► electromagnetic waves through the air [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► and interpret them and get data out of [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► it and the chip that does that is very [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► different now what you were asking with [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► marco was among CDMA things the CDMA [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► from Sprint different from CD maybe from [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► something else like I imagine it could [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► be because the code division multiple [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► access could use a different set of [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► codes or a different frequencies or you [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► know [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► other things could vary not you know the [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► technique is CDMA but everything else [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► about it could be different is this a [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► software settable thing the way you [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► would turn a radio dial or is it like a [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► car to use them do they notice all do [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► they all use the same frequencies I [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► don't know if they use vector so if they [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► use different spectrum obviously you had [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► different different antenna lengths for [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► different frequencies and stuff like [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► that but really I I was in the chat room [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► when you were talking about that with [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► Marco I didn't participate because I [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► don't know marketed no you don't know I [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► don't know we need to get someone who's [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► an expert on the cell phone industry so [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► that knowing the the vague technical [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► underpinnings of the technologies tells [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► you nothing about whether Apple needs to [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► have a different chip now my guess is [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► and as Marco as well and as everybody's [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► was is that iPhone 5 there'll be one SKU [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► or you know one at least one one [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► motherboard basically they'll have [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► different amounts of flash and stuff [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► like that so they're going to use a [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► chipset they can do it won't be 4G but [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► it can do GSM CDMA everything for every [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► possible carrier and if there's not one [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► chip that does that now like if someone [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► says that you know there's only chip [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► that does these three carries and you [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► can't just print two I'm sure they got [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► one mate because they do not want to be [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► selling a Verizon iPhone or 18t iPhone a [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► sprint iPhone yeah if they don't have to [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► if this deal was in the works long [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► enough then they should have made that [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► make sure the iPhone violation ly the [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► iPhone 5 will do 18 t and verizon with [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► the same model but have a chip so that [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► can do both of those because those exist [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► if Sprint is different and if the deal I [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► came around late then they have to make [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► a special sprint iPhone then it'll be [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► kind of like the Verizon iPhone where [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► like well this is a verizon deal but [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► we've already got our phone at this we [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► got to make you a new phone that [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► understands your network but then the [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► next version will fold it in so if there [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► is a separate sprint phone I would [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► imagine in the version a thought they [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► would fold it in but Apple wants one [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► phone that does all these different [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► things do you think do you think then [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► that the letlet let's say regardless of [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► whether there's a separate version or [TS]