29: In Too Deep


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:02   this is hypercritical episode number 29 [TS]

00:00:05   this is weekly talkshow ruminating on [TS]

00:00:07   exactly what is wrong in the world of [TS]

00:00:09   Apple related technologies and [TS]

00:00:10   businesses nothing is so perfect then it [TS]

00:00:14   cannot be detonated by my co-host John [TS]

00:00:18   siracusa i'm dan benjamin would like to [TS]

00:00:20   briefly mention that the show is [TS]

00:00:22   supported by easy dns calm and campaign [TS]

00:00:25   monitor comm who we will tell you about [TS]

00:00:28   so as the show goes on we also want to [TS]

00:00:31   mention that bandwidth for this episode [TS]

00:00:35   is provided by Midas green technologies [TS]

00:00:38   virtual private server submerged in oil [TS]

00:00:40   we got to talk about that some point [TS]

00:00:42   like the your take on that but you can [TS]

00:00:43   get some free bandwidth we're going to - [TS]

00:00:46   green tech Co now willing to olive oil [TS]

00:00:49   it is not olive oil not your kind of one [TS]

00:00:52   of the kind of oil that you and your [TS]

00:00:54   family have made for several generations [TS]

00:00:56   in siracusa Italy which is where you're [TS]

00:01:00   from I actually wouldn't like to hereby [TS]

00:01:02   I keep hearing that company advertised [TS]

00:01:05   but I haven't checked out the site yet [TS]

00:01:07   but you can tell me about it [TS]

00:01:08   apparently I've well I've been there and [TS]

00:01:11   they have these giant they have these [TS]

00:01:12   giant I wouldn't call them bathtubs [TS]

00:01:15   because it's much more professional than [TS]

00:01:17   that but they're their tanks I guess [TS]

00:01:19   you'd say tanks and in in the tank is [TS]

00:01:23   this this special kind of oil and it's a [TS]

00:01:29   certain kind of oil it's I don't know if [TS]

00:01:30   it's mineral oil I don't know if it's [TS]

00:01:32   some other kind of oil it's a [TS]

00:01:33   proprietary oil I don't know but you can [TS]

00:01:38   submerge the electronic equipment into [TS]

00:01:41   the oil and it works and it actually [TS]

00:01:43   cools stuff better than air and it's [TS]

00:01:49   better than those computers which had [TS]

00:01:50   your little tubes and have liquid [TS]

00:01:52   cooling inside them it's you submerge [TS]

00:01:53   the whole thing and the only thing you [TS]

00:01:55   have to do if you have like a fan they [TS]

00:01:57   disable the fan because there's no need [TS]

00:01:59   for that to just be spinning in there [TS]

00:02:00   and if they have a hard drive they just [TS]

00:02:02   they put the special little coating on [TS]

00:02:04   the outside of the drive and then you [TS]

00:02:05   submerge and it runs forever in there it [TS]

00:02:08   was pretty amazing I actually looked at [TS]

00:02:09   this I actually saw the stuff working [TS]

00:02:10   it's like something you don't believe [TS]

00:02:11   like you someone [TS]

00:02:13   oh I could just sink a computer in there [TS]

00:02:15   and it's gonna work you know I can know [TS]

00:02:16   I can but it does you should come on out [TS]

00:02:19   you just go I'll fly out here flying you [TS]

00:02:22   can't ringing I would love to see that [TS]

00:02:23   you should put up some pictures or [TS]

00:02:25   something I probably have some other [TS]

00:02:26   website yeah no no - green tech comm [TS]

00:02:28   they've got a video and I think it'd be [TS]

00:02:30   great to get you out here and have you [TS]

00:02:31   just sort of we could dunk you into the [TS]

00:02:33   into the oil put like a wetsuit on you [TS]

00:02:35   and dunk you I'm pretty early as it is [TS]

00:02:37   who can only imagine how are you I [TS]

00:02:42   inherited so how are you were off last [TS]

00:02:44   week you on a vacation last week I did [TS]

00:02:46   or was it last week wasn't it seems like [TS]

00:02:48   so long ago it was last week though yeah [TS]

00:02:50   I guess I came back on Friday yeah last [TS]

00:02:52   week okay it's fun I was it relaxing [TS]

00:02:58   when I came back to work I couldn't [TS]

00:03:00   remember the code that I have to punch [TS]

00:03:02   in to get in like the security door [TS]

00:03:04   that's how you can tell when you had a [TS]

00:03:05   good vacation right do you stand around [TS]

00:03:09   out there wait for someone to let you [TS]

00:03:11   know like yeah I found myself typing my [TS]

00:03:13   zip code and I said no that can't be [TS]

00:03:14   right [TS]

00:03:15   so I just sat there for maybe three [TS]

00:03:18   minutes and let my brain spew forth the [TS]

00:03:21   correct answer the trick is that you [TS]

00:03:22   have to not think about numbers but just [TS]

00:03:24   close your eyes into the sequence with [TS]

00:03:27   your fingers directionally you know what [TS]

00:03:28   I mean muscle memory they call that yes [TS]

00:03:31   and that worked you got in and you got [TS]

00:03:37   to work and you were actually back last [TS]

00:03:39   week we could have done the show last [TS]

00:03:40   week but you said too much catching up [TS]

00:03:41   to do - now sister just one day I was [TS]

00:03:44   just back on Friday so Friday is not my [TS]

00:03:46   normal day and yeah I'd to catch up on [TS]

00:03:47   stuff okay so people are very upset they [TS]

00:03:50   first of all and immediately if there's [TS]

00:03:52   ever any change in the schedule faith is [TS]

00:03:54   nodding if there's ever any change in [TS]

00:03:56   schedule the slightest change slightest [TS]

00:03:58   or something's 15 minutes later than [TS]

00:04:00   usual [TS]

00:04:00   I mean understandably they blame me for [TS]

00:04:03   it even when it's not my fault usually [TS]

00:04:05   it is so they're right to blame me first [TS]

00:04:07   but they get bad people get very I was a [TS]

00:04:09   very upset we get a lot of it we get [TS]

00:04:11   more email if I was to say that the [TS]

00:04:13   first computer ever invented was uh them [TS]

00:04:16   you know the Mac LC that was the first [TS]

00:04:20   computer invented in 1919-20 - and state [TS]

00:04:24   that as a fact I would get less email [TS]

00:04:27   the show was 15 minutes late should be [TS]

00:04:31   worried when they don't get upset then I [TS]

00:04:32   know that because they care they do care [TS]

00:04:34   especially your listeners here they love [TS]

00:04:36   you they love when you get stuff wrong [TS]

00:04:38   yeah why don't we start with that this [TS]

00:04:40   doesn't what do you got wrong this week [TS]

00:04:42   last week I'm sure I got a lot of things [TS]

00:04:45   wrong but this is the one that was the [TS]

00:04:47   most egregious this I think person who [TS]

00:04:50   responded to me here did it through [TS]

00:04:52   Twitter this is a Stephen all read or Al [TS]

00:04:55   read okay there's a computer science [TS]

00:04:58   student or graduate graduate graduate [TS]

00:05:02   student yeah [TS]

00:05:04   King's College in London so last week I [TS]

00:05:06   talked to last week maybe two weeks ago [TS]

00:05:07   I talked a little bit about what's wrong [TS]

00:05:11   with hfs+ sort of going over the stuff [TS]

00:05:12   from my line review linen that I covered [TS]

00:05:15   and one of the things that I was and was [TS]

00:05:17   that when you have one process writing [TS]

00:05:21   to an HFS volume when it when it comes [TS]

00:05:24   time for it to actually write the [TS]

00:05:26   changes to the file system it has to [TS]

00:05:28   grab a big global lock and say okay I'm [TS]

00:05:30   writing nobody else can write and if [TS]

00:05:33   another process that's running in [TS]

00:05:34   parallel you know because on another [TS]

00:05:35   core whatever wants to write at the same [TS]

00:05:38   time it can't because it's blocked by [TS]

00:05:41   that one right it's one writer at a time [TS]

00:05:43   and HFS+ and that that's entirely true [TS]

00:05:44   and I was trying to emphasize how [TS]

00:05:45   horrible that is for concurrency I guess [TS]

00:05:47   you could probably imagine you don't [TS]

00:05:48   even need multiple cores because it [TS]

00:05:50   could be that just one process has the [TS]

00:05:51   lock and then got kicked off the CPU and [TS]

00:05:54   another process comes on to the CPU and [TS]

00:05:55   it wants to write but it can't because [TS]

00:05:57   the other thing has lock so it gets [TS]

00:05:59   kicked off the CPU and you know it's [TS]

00:06:01   horrible for concurrency even with a [TS]

00:06:02   single quorum with multiple cores is bad [TS]

00:06:04   too and to try to emphasize how bad this [TS]

00:06:06   was I went one step too far and tried to [TS]

00:06:08   give an example of a raid setup or a [TS]

00:06:11   multi disc set up with multiple spindles [TS]

00:06:13   and if you were limited to one writer I [TS]

00:06:15   said that that would be a waste of the [TS]

00:06:17   capacity of those spindles that's not [TS]

00:06:19   actually true it really depends on [TS]

00:06:22   what's managing those spindles if a [TS]

00:06:24   traditional raid is managing those [TS]

00:06:25   spindles is pretty much up to the RAID [TS]

00:06:27   controller how to do that for example if [TS]

00:06:28   you are doing a mirroring raid even if [TS]

00:06:31   you have one writer you're still using [TS]

00:06:32   your spindles because you're mirroring [TS]

00:06:34   you know you're right to both sets of [TS]

00:06:36   spindles right and there are many raid [TS]

00:06:38   configurations that have a mirroring [TS]

00:06:39   component you know raid 10 or [TS]

00:06:41   all the different combinations raid 6 [TS]

00:06:43   sometimes you're writing parity to one [TS]

00:06:45   of the drives so that's another instance [TS]

00:06:46   where it's been multiple spindles would [TS]

00:06:47   be in flight so that was a bad bad [TS]

00:06:51   attempt to explain the implications of [TS]

00:06:53   only having one right at a time because [TS]

00:06:54   in raid and other multi-volume [TS]

00:06:57   multi-disc setups the number of spindles [TS]

00:07:00   in action at any one time is not limited [TS]

00:07:04   by the limitations of the file system [TS]

00:07:05   it's really up to the controller and how [TS]

00:07:07   it's dipping up data so that was a bad [TS]

00:07:09   example and Steven called me on that and [TS]

00:07:11   that was good call only only because he [TS]

00:07:14   has an advanced degree do you even [TS]

00:07:15   acknowledge him [TS]

00:07:16   no I didn't know who he was when he sent [TS]

00:07:19   the thing I just looked up this [TS]

00:07:20   information so I would know who do [TS]

00:07:21   properly credit but he was the only [TS]

00:07:22   person who yelled about that if we had [TS]

00:07:24   anybody I mean if you if I had heard the [TS]

00:07:27   same thing on a podcast and had been in [TS]

00:07:29   a critical thinking mindset I would have [TS]

00:07:30   caught myself in that error as it was [TS]

00:07:32   just a dumb off the coffee example that [TS]

00:07:34   really makes no sense if you think about [TS]

00:07:35   it for more than two seconds so my bad [TS]

00:07:39   some more follow up remember we talked [TS]

00:07:42   about the dock indicator lights and how [TS]

00:07:44   they change the defaults and you know [TS]

00:07:45   whether they're on or off in line and [TS]

00:07:47   all that business maybe two shows ago [TS]

00:07:48   mm-hmm and I made a joke that like now [TS]

00:07:52   that they changed the default so that [TS]

00:07:54   they're on why even have the option [TS]

00:07:56   because who in their right mind is going [TS]

00:07:57   to go in there and turn them off because [TS]

00:07:58   novice user is the vast majority of [TS]

00:08:00   users are just never going to touch a [TS]

00:08:01   default so whatever the default is [TS]

00:08:02   that's what it is and if you technically [TS]

00:08:04   inclined users I've said they're they're [TS]

00:08:07   the ones who are going to want the dots [TS]

00:08:08   to be on because if you're that kind of [TS]

00:08:09   techie nerd about this option you also [TS]

00:08:11   are probably used to the old way of [TS]

00:08:13   doing things you want your dots so you [TS]

00:08:15   know what's running and what's not and a [TS]

00:08:17   whole bunch of people replied to me [TS]

00:08:19   through various means to say that they [TS]

00:08:22   actually did go in there and turn that [TS]

00:08:24   option off and every single one of them [TS]

00:08:26   had this or a similar variant of this as [TS]

00:08:30   their explanation they said they don't [TS]

00:08:31   put non-running apps in the dock so [TS]

00:08:34   everything every application of the dock [TS]

00:08:36   is running like they don't have [TS]

00:08:37   permanent citizenship in the dock at all [TS]

00:08:39   it just seems crazy to me because that [TS]

00:08:41   means when you start up your computer [TS]

00:08:42   the only thing in the dock is on the [TS]

00:08:44   left side of the dock anyway is the [TS]

00:08:46   finder icon and nothing else I guess so [TS]

00:08:48   that parently that's how these people [TS]

00:08:50   roll and they you know so obviously they [TS]

00:08:52   turn off the dots and whenever any [TS]

00:08:53   application [TS]

00:08:55   piers in the dock obviously it's running [TS]

00:08:57   there's no need for a dot to be [TS]

00:08:58   underneath it so the dots are just [TS]

00:08:59   redundant noise and turning them off you [TS]

00:09:01   know makes the appearance nicer so [TS]

00:09:03   that's that's the way people use their [TS]

00:09:04   computers is something I hadn't occurred [TS]

00:09:06   to me but that's what they did the [TS]

00:09:07   reason it didn't occur to me is because [TS]

00:09:10   it just seems so weird to me not to use [TS]

00:09:12   the dock as a launcher at all I guess [TS]

00:09:14   that's kind of odd because I use [TS]

00:09:15   Quicksilver as my launcher so I guess no [TS]

00:09:17   you're not like a launch bar I would if [TS]

00:09:18   see I would have pegged you for a launch [TS]

00:09:19   bar she's never shown that yeah I'm I'll [TS]

00:09:22   do a little side bar and I don't know [TS]

00:09:24   this would be a great show I'm gonna do [TS]

00:09:26   that we gotta do it let me just do a [TS]

00:09:28   side bar in this was it'll take two [TS]

00:09:29   seconds okay I say before I talk for [TS]

00:09:31   five minutes [TS]

00:09:32   all right that's assuming that doesn't [TS]

00:09:35   mean I don't even ask any questions yeah [TS]

00:09:36   so I've been a Quicksilver user since [TS]

00:09:39   whenever it first became calm okay wait [TS]

00:09:41   a minute hang on hang on [TS]

00:09:42   what is Quicksilver John oh so hard to [TS]

00:09:45   explain it as far as I'm concerned it's [TS]

00:09:51   a thing that appears when you hit [TS]

00:09:53   command space and then you type stuff [TS]

00:09:55   and when you type stuff [TS]

00:09:57   it presents options to you of what [TS]

00:09:58   you're typing what it thinks you're [TS]

00:09:59   typing means then when you return it [TS]

00:10:01   does whatever the current option is so [TS]

00:10:03   for example if I were to hit a command [TS]

00:10:04   space and type mail M ail right so you [TS]

00:10:08   had it if you had it configured in a [TS]

00:10:11   particular way it could be that the [TS]

00:10:13   Apple Mail application icon appears in [TS]

00:10:16   front of you and you say yes what I [TS]

00:10:17   actually wanted to do was launch the [TS]

00:10:19   mail application you hit returned and it [TS]

00:10:20   would launch mail but it could do all [TS]

00:10:22   sorts of things when you type mail like [TS]

00:10:23   this the number of ways you can [TS]

00:10:25   configure this that's why it's hard to [TS]

00:10:26   explain because there's tons of plugins [TS]

00:10:28   and you can configure it however you [TS]

00:10:30   want you can make like the world of [TS]

00:10:32   things that you're typing into can be [TS]

00:10:33   configured in ten different ways to [TS]

00:10:35   Sunday so it's hard to explain what it [TS]

00:10:37   really does and really the reason it [TS]

00:10:39   became popular I think is because of [TS]

00:10:41   that flexibility and because it was the [TS]

00:10:43   idea that you could do stuff without [TS]

00:10:44   taking your hands off the keyboard and [TS]

00:10:45   what you wanted to do well it's up to [TS]

00:10:47   you if you decide you want to type this [TS]

00:10:50   command space keyboard shortcut which by [TS]

00:10:51   the way clicks overhead before spot like [TS]

00:10:53   it existed so spotlight kind of stole [TS]

00:10:55   that from Quicksilver you type that [TS]

00:10:57   keyboard shortcut and you type something [TS]

00:10:59   and you and you configure it so that [TS]

00:11:01   what you type means what you want it to [TS]

00:11:03   mean and then you know you can hit [TS]

00:11:04   return and tab and space and all sorts [TS]

00:11:06   of things like reveal documents or [TS]

00:11:08   make small text and snippets or do [TS]

00:11:11   calculations or look at your clipboard [TS]

00:11:13   history or just insane amount of stuff [TS]

00:11:15   that you you can do so when I got into [TS]

00:11:17   it way back when I decided I wanted to [TS]

00:11:20   use it as an application launcher and [TS]

00:11:22   pretty much only as an application [TS]

00:11:23   launcher so what I did and continue to [TS]

00:11:25   do is take my catalog which is what [TS]

00:11:27   Quicksilver calls the the world of [TS]

00:11:29   things that it's searching when you type [TS]

00:11:31   and pair it down to just applications I [TS]

00:11:34   may be one or two documents that are [TS]

00:11:36   open frequently but I rarely use that in [TS]

00:11:38   practice because I wanted the world of [TS]

00:11:39   things that I'm typing you know the [TS]

00:11:41   world of things that they what I'm [TS]

00:11:43   typing can match to be as small as [TS]

00:11:45   possible so there is less of a chance of [TS]

00:11:48   confusion now Quicksilver has some [TS]

00:11:51   learning capabilities with manual [TS]

00:11:54   overrides where you can train it that [TS]

00:11:56   when you type command space PS it [TS]

00:11:58   launches Photoshop even though Photoshop [TS]

00:12:00   doesn't begin with PS it has P and s in [TS]

00:12:02   it you know Quicksilver will do that [TS]

00:12:03   kind of matching for you and you can [TS]

00:12:05   forcibly make it launch the thing that [TS]

00:12:07   you want if you have four or five [TS]

00:12:08   applications that all have similar names [TS]

00:12:10   or something you can say no when I type [TS]

00:12:12   command space you know X Y I mean this [TS]

00:12:14   application so you you only have to do [TS]

00:12:16   that in the beginning you know once you [TS]

00:12:17   train it to your needs and eventually [TS]

00:12:19   you get into a situation where you type [TS]

00:12:21   command space a couple letters and hit [TS]

00:12:23   return it is by far the fastest way to [TS]

00:12:25   launch an application much faster than [TS]

00:12:27   spotlight in my experience unless maybe [TS]

00:12:30   you're on a system where it was just new [TS]

00:12:33   out of the box with a newly updated [TS]

00:12:34   spotlight index but when you have [TS]

00:12:35   millions and millions of files like I do [TS]

00:12:37   spotlight is not an efficient way to [TS]

00:12:38   launch applications especially if the [TS]

00:12:40   application happens to have the same [TS]

00:12:41   name as the contents of a text file that [TS]

00:12:43   you use recently or some other thing the [TS]

00:12:45   world of things that spa like searches [TS]

00:12:46   is much larger than in my pared-down [TS]

00:12:49   quick slow everything so why not why not [TS]

00:12:50   launch bar for example so I've tried all [TS]

00:12:53   the other alternatives at various times [TS]

00:12:55   launch bar launch bar three four or five [TS]

00:12:57   all the history of launch bar I've [TS]

00:12:59   always downloaded and tried it Alfred [TS]

00:13:02   Butler one of the other ones like it [TS]

00:13:04   could confused by these english [TS]

00:13:06   manservant applications there's a whole [TS]

00:13:09   bunch of them on that theme but yeah [TS]

00:13:11   I've tried a whole bunch of them I I [TS]

00:13:13   think Alfred has come the closest to [TS]

00:13:15   replacing Quicksilver for a while [TS]

00:13:16   Quicksilver was kind of in this [TS]

00:13:18   development limbo kind of like textmate [TS]

00:13:19   or where the guy who developed it went [TS]

00:13:21   off to work for Google and did something [TS]

00:13:22   different [TS]

00:13:22   that also have the initials Q s he did [TS]

00:13:24   the Google quick search but it was like [TS]

00:13:28   well who's gonna you know and [TS]

00:13:29   Quicksilver I believe with GPL it was [TS]

00:13:31   open-source I think and I don't know if [TS]

00:13:33   it's GPL it might be but it was just out [TS]

00:13:35   there and it was kind of languishing and [TS]

00:13:37   then you know Apple would update the [TS]

00:13:38   operating system and clicks over would [TS]

00:13:39   get weird and crashy and then someone [TS]

00:13:42   would go in there heroically make it [TS]

00:13:43   work again so I think now finally the Q [TS]

00:13:47   s app comm has the people who are [TS]

00:13:48   actively maintaining it but for a while [TS]

00:13:50   there I was searching for alternatives I [TS]

00:13:52   was afraid Quicksilver was going to go [TS]

00:13:53   away or break and it was flaky for a [TS]

00:13:55   while right so I tried all these other [TS]

00:13:57   ones and the reason I didn't use them is [TS]

00:14:00   maybe it's the stupidest reason ever but [TS]

00:14:02   it's it's it's my reason it's a valid [TS]

00:14:05   reason for me I like the way Quicksilver [TS]

00:14:09   looks and I like where it appears in the [TS]

00:14:11   screen I used the which appearance do I [TS]

00:14:13   use then I should say Bozell again [TS]

00:14:16   people love it now the bed the bezel [TS]

00:14:18   appearance yeah which was that the [TS]

00:14:20   default I don't think that was a default [TS]

00:14:21   way back in the day back in the day [TS]

00:14:22   there was this ugly default in [TS]

00:14:23   Quicksilver but the bezel appearance is [TS]

00:14:25   the one I use and it's kind of like a [TS]

00:14:26   transparent rounded wreck with a big [TS]

00:14:29   honkin 128 by 128 I think icon of your [TS]

00:14:32   application left-hand pane and then the [TS]

00:14:34   right hand paints is the action you're [TS]

00:14:35   going to do to it or whatever when I hit [TS]

00:14:37   command space I want that to appear dead [TS]

00:14:39   center on the on the screen I don't want [TS]

00:14:41   to read any text like I just want the [TS]

00:14:43   big icon of the application because as I [TS]

00:14:45   type that icon goes flips off a foot you [TS]

00:14:46   know as I type each letter that icon [TS]

00:14:48   changes really really quickly and my [TS]

00:14:50   pinkie hits return as soon as that icon [TS]

00:14:52   looks like the thing I want it launched [TS]

00:14:53   I'm never reading any words that's what [TS]

00:14:55   makes it fast to me I want to do command [TS]

00:14:56   space a couple letters which my fingers [TS]

00:14:58   will type without me looking I'm staring [TS]

00:15:00   straight ahead up the middle the screen [TS]

00:15:01   at a big look picture of the icon and [TS]

00:15:03   Susy icon appears they return now launch [TS]

00:15:06   bar is always up in the upper right I [TS]

00:15:07   don't want to look over there [TS]

00:15:08   well in Tirana key it can be in the [TS]

00:15:09   middle launch bar right but the middle [TS]

00:15:11   the middle top the right huh yeah not [TS]

00:15:13   dead center with the big hunking icon [TS]

00:15:15   like that Alfred is really close but [TS]

00:15:18   doesn't have quite as big an icon and [TS]

00:15:20   the other thing that's keeping [TS]

00:15:21   Quicksilver going is that like I have my [TS]

00:15:22   catalog tweak just so with I have a [TS]

00:15:24   custom you know applications pull out of [TS]

00:15:26   the developer folder another random [TS]

00:15:27   stuff thrown in there and my catalog [TS]

00:15:30   pared down just the way I like it and [TS]

00:15:32   all my shortcuts [TS]

00:15:33   trained the way I want them [TS]

00:15:35   and it's free and it's open source can [TS]

00:15:38   you design can you support them I mean I [TS]

00:15:40   know you would never never do anything [TS]

00:15:42   like supply would actually its life but [TS]

00:15:43   if I felt like it would make a dent I [TS]

00:15:45   don't think I ever have though I mean I [TS]

00:15:47   would buy you quit over in a second [TS]

00:15:48   I think I almost Watford and remember I [TS]

00:15:51   think Alfred is was had some [TS]

00:15:53   introductory price or whatever but I've [TS]

00:15:55   never bought a launch bar because I've [TS]

00:15:58   known that the upper right hand corner [TS]

00:15:59   are centered in the middle has not been [TS]

00:16:00   nice for me but Alfred is close because [TS]

00:16:02   it does appear in the center it does [TS]

00:16:04   have reasonably large icons but it also [TS]

00:16:06   has a lot of text I don't I like the [TS]

00:16:08   image centric nature of Quicksilver so [TS]

00:16:09   that's why I keep using Quicksilver [TS]

00:16:11   someday if it goes away or gets bad this [TS]

00:16:13   is there's so many alternatives I'm sure [TS]

00:16:15   I'll find one I like but for now I like [TS]

00:16:17   Quicksilver and I've just never gone off [TS]

00:16:18   of it [TS]

00:16:19   and and I put always put command space [TS]

00:16:21   to be Quicksilver I changed the [TS]

00:16:22   spotlight shortcut to command control [TS]

00:16:26   space so also is that mandatory ya know [TS]

00:16:32   all my machines all my family's machines [TS]

00:16:34   command space does Quicksilver even I [TS]

00:16:36   put Quicksilver on on my parents Mac's [TS]

00:16:38   all the time they've always had it I [TS]

00:16:39   think they think it's part of the [TS]

00:16:40   operating system they use it believe it [TS]

00:16:42   or not you know like it's it's [TS]

00:16:44   surprising once it's kind of like [TS]

00:16:46   gestures once you actually the learning [TS]

00:16:47   curve is huge like if you don't know [TS]

00:16:48   it's there you'll never actually use it [TS]

00:16:50   but my parents know if they want to [TS]

00:16:52   launch something type command space and [TS]

00:16:53   had the first few letters and hit return [TS]

00:16:54   when you see the picture you want and [TS]

00:16:55   even when they go to a Mac that's not [TS]

00:16:58   there is this not configured in that way [TS]

00:17:00   command space still does that it just [TS]

00:17:02   appears in the spotlight menu and they [TS]

00:17:04   you know they figure it out all it's a [TS]

00:17:05   similar type of thing so 30 30 seconds [TS]

00:17:09   pretty-pretty 30 seconds so is this I [TS]

00:17:12   mean what are you saying that people [TS]

00:17:13   should just should just go in and and [TS]

00:17:17   try Quicksilver and then consider launch [TS]

00:17:20   bar I don't know what to suggest for [TS]

00:17:24   other mean you know you're they might [TS]

00:17:25   not have these I think the efficiency of [TS]

00:17:27   the big visual appearance of that icon [TS]

00:17:29   is tremendous much better than anything [TS]

00:17:31   that shows text or shows text [TS]

00:17:33   prominently or requires any kind of [TS]

00:17:35   reading I know you know how to read is [TS]

00:17:36   not you can just glance and see the text [TS]

00:17:37   changing and you're getting the one you [TS]

00:17:39   want but I feel like it's actually [TS]

00:17:41   inspiring me John you're inspiring me to [TS]

00:17:43   consider trying [TS]

00:17:44   Quicksilver again because I [TS]

00:17:46   Bandon to sway and switch to launch bar [TS]

00:17:48   a while back and I haven't even looked [TS]

00:17:51   at Quicksilver in like year to year down [TS]

00:17:54   a long time it hasn't changed much a [TS]

00:17:56   load is being actively developed again [TS]

00:17:58   but I mean the thing about launch bars [TS]

00:17:59   it's just so much more than what I just [TS]

00:18:01   described and so does Quicksilver for [TS]

00:18:02   that matter but launch bar has many more [TS]

00:18:05   features for in terms of matching [TS]

00:18:06   documents or recent documents that you [TS]

00:18:08   use I think it that Quicksilver and all [TS]

00:18:10   these other things also do System [TS]

00:18:11   Preferences which I do use it for as [TS]

00:18:13   well but if you if you not if you don't [TS]

00:18:16   have such a narrow needs if you did not [TS]

00:18:17   just dedicate to using as an application [TS]

00:18:19   launcher launch bar is more [TS]

00:18:22   full-featured and sort of a more stable [TS]

00:18:24   or higher quality application as a sort [TS]

00:18:26   of commercial supported product then [TS]

00:18:29   Quicksilver which is out in the wilds of [TS]

00:18:31   the internet and periodically orphaned [TS]

00:18:34   but then picked back up again as open [TS]

00:18:37   source it probably will have a long life [TS]

00:18:38   because as long as people like me are [TS]

00:18:40   addicted to using it some Mon will [TS]

00:18:41   continue to maintain it but I wouldn't [TS]

00:18:45   go out and say oh you have to run quick [TS]

00:18:46   so we don't run launch bar on try them [TS]

00:18:47   all and use whichever one makes sense to [TS]

00:18:50   you I think most people do that like did [TS]

00:18:52   you go off Quicksilver because you felt [TS]

00:18:54   like it was a txt mated you know yeah [TS]

00:18:56   partially because I felt like well it [TS]

00:18:59   was it was abandoned nothing new was [TS]

00:19:01   going to come out and then launch bar [TS]

00:19:02   kind of happened and a bunch of people [TS]

00:19:04   that I knew were saying oh you try try [TS]

00:19:06   launch bar it's less buggy and to be [TS]

00:19:07   honest for a long time it seemed like [TS]

00:19:10   the only changes that were happening [TS]

00:19:11   with Quicksilver were focused on what [TS]

00:19:15   what I guess you would call visual flair [TS]

00:19:17   like there were a whole bunch of themes [TS]

00:19:19   there's like a little cube that would [TS]

00:19:21   come out and rotate around as you were [TS]

00:19:23   typing and it started reminding me the [TS]

00:19:25   whole like Linux community with the e [TS]

00:19:27   window manager for a while or whatever [TS]

00:19:30   that thing was called enlightenment and [TS]

00:19:31   it just it you know I said you know [TS]

00:19:34   computer resources and the machines I [TS]

00:19:36   was using at the time were somewhat [TS]

00:19:37   limited and I thought this visual flair [TS]

00:19:39   all this extra stuff all this stuff is [TS]

00:19:42   it really you know is it really [TS]

00:19:43   mandatory do I need it and then there [TS]

00:19:45   was launch bar with this sort of [TS]

00:19:46   minimalist aesthetic and it was a steer [TS]

00:19:49   and it was it was nice it was just like [TS]

00:19:52   wow you know this is [TS]

00:19:54   and it's commercially supported I do I [TS]

00:19:56   do like I do like the the company that [TS]

00:19:59   makes it so I just thought you know I'll [TS]

00:20:01   do it but I do like what you're saying [TS]

00:20:06   about the sort of visual simplicity of [TS]

00:20:09   seeing the icons show up as you're [TS]

00:20:11   typing and and and really odd the thing [TS]

00:20:13   is I know people like Merlin will do [TS]

00:20:15   crazy things with LaunchBar integrating [TS]

00:20:18   you know like I know people that you [TS]

00:20:20   know for example they'll have and I [TS]

00:20:22   think Merlin was even describing this on [TS]

00:20:24   a recent show if I'm remembering right [TS]

00:20:25   you know they'll have it set up so that [TS]

00:20:27   you can key you know email things and [TS]

00:20:29   send you trigger points to emails and [TS]

00:20:31   then I really just use it as an [TS]

00:20:33   application launcher and I realize I'm [TS]

00:20:34   I'm under utilizing what launch bar and [TS]

00:20:37   these other things can do but for me a [TS]

00:20:39   lot of time I just want a lot I just [TS]

00:20:41   want to launch an app you know or [TS]

00:20:42   sometimes look up a look up look up a [TS]

00:20:46   contact from address book Quicksilver [TS]

00:20:48   can do that too right yeah quick stop we [TS]

00:20:50   can do most of the things launch bar can [TS]

00:20:52   do but it's kind of up to you to [TS]

00:20:54   assemble from the little LEGO pieces the [TS]

00:20:57   functionality you want I always find [TS]

00:20:58   what the ones that do more that's why [TS]

00:21:00   I've been aggressively paring things [TS]

00:21:01   down and removing plugins don't you know [TS]

00:21:03   removing features because I don't like [TS]

00:21:05   even contacts I used to have in [TS]

00:21:06   Quicksilver Lee so the contacts were [TS]

00:21:08   part of the autocomplete but I remove [TS]

00:21:10   that because if I ever saw a contact [TS]

00:21:11   when I was talking about to launch an [TS]

00:21:12   app it would piss me off it's like I [TS]

00:21:14   just want to use it as a launcher the [TS]

00:21:15   only thing I use it besides launching is [TS]

00:21:18   if I want to find that application I use [TS]

00:21:21   the get info reveal commands it reveals [TS]

00:21:24   it in the finder mostly because I'm [TS]

00:21:25   going to right-click and show package [TS]

00:21:26   contents or something or like I thought [TS]

00:21:28   I had that application where was it a [TS]

00:21:30   command space type of few things tab [TS]

00:21:32   down arrow return for you know reveal in [TS]

00:21:34   finder that's that's the limit of what I [TS]

00:21:36   do and one or two you know little [TS]

00:21:38   special documents that I have like you [TS]

00:21:40   know I know it's file or whatever that I [TS]

00:21:42   launch frequently I have that actually [TS]

00:21:43   explicitly added to the catalog file you [TS]

00:21:45   can go to the Quicksilver catalog and [TS]

00:21:47   add specific files that you want to find [TS]

00:21:49   and just stick them in there for the [TS]

00:21:53   visual stuff I have Quicksilver has this [TS]

00:21:54   option that says use superfluous visual [TS]

00:21:57   effects or something like that yeah I [TS]

00:21:58   hate that I've always had that turned [TS]

00:22:00   off always and yeah I did start to go [TS]

00:22:02   crazy with like that one of the ones [TS]

00:22:03   they had was like radial menus where it [TS]

00:22:05   would array a bunch of options out in a [TS]

00:22:07   our goal and you could Mouse to them or [TS]

00:22:09   something or use the arrow key I've [TS]

00:22:10   never had any of that enables just one [TS]

00:22:13   little thing in the middle of the screen [TS]

00:22:14   with icons command space type something [TS]

00:22:17   return that's it but yeah I remember [TS]

00:22:19   Merlin talking about what he does with [TS]

00:22:20   lunch bar and once more on Quicksilver [TS]

00:22:22   are both very capable of doing that type [TS]

00:22:24   of stuff but that's not what I use them [TS]

00:22:26   for [TS]

00:22:27   well okay then all right so I wasn't [TS]

00:22:30   really that was a really really long [TS]

00:22:32   long but really cool 30 seconds yeah I [TS]

00:22:37   should add Quicksilver on my list [TS]

00:22:39   because it's one of the few things [TS]

00:22:40   that's been on my max since it was [TS]

00:22:42   introduced and hasn't left mmm almost [TS]

00:22:44   left but didn't quite well let's do a [TS]

00:22:46   quick sponsor then all right we're still [TS]

00:22:49   not even in we're just haven't even [TS]

00:22:50   scratched the surface of the fu but [TS]

00:22:54   we'll do sponsor anyway it's easy DNS [TS]

00:22:56   this episode is sponsored by easy DNS [TS]

00:22:58   comma since 1998 easy DNS has been [TS]

00:23:02   helping people register a web address [TS]

00:23:04   transfer domain setup email forwarding [TS]

00:23:06   and manage their DNS it's a big part of [TS]

00:23:09   what they do now while they doing this [TS]

00:23:12   they're providing the best support in [TS]

00:23:14   the business when you call them then [TS]

00:23:16   actual live human being picks up the [TS]

00:23:18   phone like the phone rings once or twice [TS]

00:23:20   and a human being answers and they [TS]

00:23:22   understand what you're talking about and [TS]

00:23:24   they're content to help you whether you [TS]

00:23:25   are an uber geek like John or whether [TS]

00:23:28   you are just just wanting to do [TS]

00:23:31   something basic doesn't matter they'll [TS]

00:23:34   help you they'll help you do it or you [TS]

00:23:35   can do it all in their website which is [TS]

00:23:36   pretty darn amazing and they aren't [TS]

00:23:38   reading from a script they they [TS]

00:23:40   understand the business inside and out [TS]

00:23:41   and you don't go around and around in [TS]

00:23:43   circles and you can go to EZ DNS comm [TS]

00:23:45   slash 5x5 where you can learn about [TS]

00:23:48   those and special things we have set up [TS]

00:23:50   just for our listeners but why would you [TS]

00:23:53   John why would you want to have an [TS]

00:23:56   external a third-party DNS provider for [TS]

00:23:58   example why why not just use your [TS]

00:24:00   registrar and by the way their registrar [TS]

00:24:02   too but why not just use Namecheap or [TS]

00:24:04   GoDaddy or whoever free DNS why would [TS]

00:24:06   you want something professional you know [TS]

00:24:08   finding good dns providers is so hard [TS]

00:24:11   you'll if you google for that and you'll [TS]

00:24:12   see people asking about it all the time [TS]

00:24:14   because there are so many bad ones hope [TS]

00:24:15   you find a good one stick to it because [TS]

00:24:17   they are rare and there are tons of bad [TS]

00:24:19   ones and getting a bad one stinks [TS]

00:24:21   because [TS]

00:24:21   stuck with them usually for some period [TS]

00:24:23   of time participate with all year you [TS]

00:24:24   know these guys are great and highly [TS]

00:24:26   recommend them really great interface [TS]

00:24:28   and make it really super easy to [TS]

00:24:30   transfer your DNS over to them and I'll [TS]

00:24:32   tell you what the power of having your [TS]

00:24:34   DNS in a place that you trust in place [TS]

00:24:35   that you rely on means you can change [TS]

00:24:37   your web host you can change your email [TS]

00:24:39   providers you can change all of this [TS]

00:24:41   stuff but your DNS stays the same it [TS]

00:24:44   stays secure it stays where you put it [TS]

00:24:46   you don't have to worry about your DNS [TS]

00:24:48   going down if your registrar has a [TS]

00:24:49   problem or gets hacked or something [TS]

00:24:51   these guys are just too great they have [TS]

00:24:52   amazing uptime check them out easy DNS [TS]

00:24:54   comm / 5x5 make me want to change my DNS [TS]

00:24:59   more I go changing I'm not gonna say who [TS]

00:25:01   my current one is and it's not like [TS]

00:25:02   they're bad because I've heard the [TS]

00:25:04   horror stories from the bad ones kind of [TS]

00:25:06   like yeah you know yeah go check him out [TS]

00:25:09   and I actually I'll get I'll get you [TS]

00:25:10   hooked up they would love to have you on [TS]

00:25:13   there I'm sure they loved up a whole [TS]

00:25:15   audience laughing nice I have so many [TS]

00:25:17   domains this is something that geeks [TS]

00:25:19   tend to have like we how many do you [TS]

00:25:20   have right now right now too many my [TS]

00:25:23   wife yells at me about how many domains [TS]

00:25:24   I'm you're never gonna use that get rid [TS]

00:25:25   of it achieve your goals [TS]

00:25:26   someone else get it she sees the bills [TS]

00:25:28   like what is this bill for what what [TS]

00:25:30   domain is this she wants to know the [TS]

00:25:31   exact domain because they're cheap but [TS]

00:25:33   they add up you know yeah had a lot of a [TS]

00:25:36   lot of domains right now I'm looking at [TS]

00:25:38   just the ones I have on on one provider [TS]

00:25:41   here I have 29 yes on one that's just on [TS]

00:25:48   one that's not even on like you know the [TS]

00:25:50   ones like like for awhile I was using [TS]

00:25:52   GoDaddy I hate to admit it but I was [TS]

00:25:55   using GoDaddy for a while and I've [TS]

00:25:57   pretty much moved all the domains that I [TS]

00:25:58   care about off of there with a few [TS]

00:26:00   exceptions like there's a few that I [TS]

00:26:03   registered for like three years [TS]

00:26:05   that I'm just keeping there until you [TS]

00:26:09   know until it's like closed expiring and [TS]

00:26:10   then before it expires I'll get it I'll [TS]

00:26:12   get it out of there at least you have a [TS]

00:26:15   legitimate reason you have business that [TS]

00:26:17   uses domain names I really have no [TS]

00:26:18   nothing what do you mean tell me one of [TS]

00:26:21   your worst ones that you're keeping for [TS]

00:26:22   no reason [TS]

00:26:23   my username that I had as an [TS]

00:26:27   undergraduate I have that calm you want [TS]

00:26:30   to share and then it's no I do not you [TS]

00:26:33   do not [TS]

00:26:34   yes see I only have six over it come to [TS]

00:26:37   Hemi only six I how many did I say was [TS]

00:26:40   the other one twenty twenty-nine so I've [TS]

00:26:42   got 35 Oh [TS]

00:26:44   what am I doing with 35 domains don't [TS]

00:26:47   make sense hive logic comm that one [TS]

00:26:49   makes sense you understand water i buy [TS]

00:26:51   5.2 yeah those are those are important [TS]

00:26:53   but I've got some funny ones let me tell [TS]

00:26:54   me I'll tell you my most strangest one I [TS]

00:26:57   have on there I have this is this was a [TS]

00:27:00   great I see whenever I have an idea for [TS]

00:27:01   like a cool business name I think you [TS]

00:27:04   know I'll just all start up like a [TS]

00:27:05   Holdings company with the weird business [TS]

00:27:07   name and so I registered the domain [TS]

00:27:08   immediately automatic pants not calm [TS]

00:27:11   I've had for years I've had that for [TS]

00:27:13   over ten years three different [TS]

00:27:15   registrar's and like I would what is [TS]

00:27:17   that business it's nothing I never [TS]

00:27:19   started I know but I'd be a fairy like a [TS]

00:27:21   Holderness company so like you'd [TS]

00:27:24   automatically get pants I don't know I [TS]

00:27:26   just really liked it I had arrived [TS]

00:27:31   registered mouth of Brooklyn comm for [TS]

00:27:33   Marco looking registered registered for [TS]

00:27:37   him and you stole it from him so I [TS]

00:27:39   registered it on his behalf if you would [TS]

00:27:41   ever like it I'll talk about the legal [TS]

00:27:42   system works I'll transfer it over him [TS]

00:27:44   should he ever wanted you stole it [TS]

00:27:46   you're a squatter is what you are twenty [TS]

00:27:48   nine domain names all right let's move [TS]

00:27:51   on something else sign oh my god Auto [TS]

00:27:54   termination so there was a story on [TS]

00:27:57   tidbits by Matt Newburgh did you read [TS]

00:27:59   that [TS]

00:27:59   I believe I did see that one yeah lion [TS]

00:28:02   is a quitter yeah yeah I did read that [TS]

00:28:05   one enough the title really fits ah but [TS]

00:28:08   so to review for the people who don't [TS]

00:28:10   recall or blacked out since reading my [TS]

00:28:12   line review and forgotten everything in [TS]

00:28:14   Lion the relationship between running [TS]

00:28:21   applications processes and the visual [TS]

00:28:23   manifestations of those has changed so [TS]

00:28:26   in the old world that used to be that if [TS]

00:28:29   an application was running it had an [TS]

00:28:30   Associated UNIX process behind the [TS]

00:28:32   scenes it appeared in the doc and if you [TS]

00:28:35   alt tabbed you would see it's the like [TS]

00:28:37   on somewhere on the older I keep saying [TS]

00:28:39   alt tab but command tab you would see [TS]

00:28:42   its icon there and then we just oh yeah [TS]

00:28:44   no your windows history right there [TS]

00:28:45   missing yes the origins of that [TS]

00:28:48   keyboard shortcuts from the the alt-tab [TS]

00:28:50   world for Windows so in Lion now there [TS]

00:28:56   are a couple things that can happen the [TS]

00:28:58   first is that if an application is [TS]

00:29:00   written in a particular way you can say [TS]

00:29:02   that it supports Auto termination and [TS]

00:29:04   what that means is it's telling the [TS]

00:29:06   operating system if at any time you feel [TS]

00:29:09   like you need me not to be running feel [TS]

00:29:13   free to terminate me and reclaim my [TS]

00:29:14   resources so it's not the line doesn't [TS]

00:29:17   do this two random applications the [TS]

00:29:18   application has to explicitly be written [TS]

00:29:20   to tell Lion that this is okay and line [TS]

00:29:23   uses a heuristic to decide whether [TS]

00:29:27   that's something it should do and as I [TS]

00:29:30   wrote in my review it's pretty [TS]

00:29:31   conservative heuristic where it says [TS]

00:29:34   that it can't be any visible Windows for [TS]

00:29:36   this application [TS]

00:29:37   you can't currently be using it and [TS]

00:29:40   there was some of the criteria that I [TS]

00:29:41   can't remember but it's sort you know [TS]

00:29:43   it's not like you're going to be using [TS]

00:29:44   an application or even looking at a [TS]

00:29:45   window and suddenly will disappear it [TS]

00:29:47   has to be completely invisible not on [TS]

00:29:50   the screen and you're not currently [TS]

00:29:51   using and then the if you put the system [TS]

00:29:53   under memory pressure for example I [TS]

00:29:55   operate system will say okay well I'm [TS]

00:29:57   under memory pressure and here's this [TS]

00:29:58   application it's not visible and not [TS]

00:30:00   currently being used I will quit that [TS]

00:30:02   one now the other feature of Lion that [TS]

00:30:06   applications the support order [TS]

00:30:07   termination are also supposed to support [TS]

00:30:08   although I guess they it's not mandatory [TS]

00:30:11   but the idea is that they should support [TS]

00:30:13   this is the resume feature so that if [TS]

00:30:15   the user doesn't realize that the system [TS]

00:30:17   quit that particular application and [TS]

00:30:19   clicks on at the end to go back to it it [TS]

00:30:22   should launch back to its previous state [TS]

00:30:24   so you don't lose anything so all your [TS]

00:30:25   open documents is still there you didn't [TS]

00:30:27   have to worry about unsaved changes blah [TS]

00:30:28   blah blah so it's very difficult to [TS]

00:30:30   correctly support our termination [TS]

00:30:31   without supporting resume as well and [TS]

00:30:34   there's another twist on this is that [TS]

00:30:37   Lion doesn't necessarily kill the UNIX [TS]

00:30:40   process associated with that application [TS]

00:30:43   it may leave the process running but [TS]

00:30:46   remove the manifestations of that [TS]

00:30:49   application in the UI so it won't appear [TS]

00:30:52   in alt tab anymore if you have the dots [TS]

00:30:54   turned on it won't have a dot under it [TS]

00:30:55   in the dock but the process associated [TS]

00:30:58   with the application is still running so [TS]

00:30:59   the next time you launch it launch [TS]

00:31:01   quote-unquote [TS]

00:31:02   it will simply spring back to life [TS]

00:31:04   instantly because it was never actually [TS]

00:31:05   exited so that what I said in the review [TS]

00:31:07   is that you can have applications [TS]

00:31:08   without processes where you think you're [TS]

00:31:11   running it but really the process is [TS]

00:31:12   gone and processes without applications [TS]

00:31:14   where you have a process but there's no [TS]

00:31:15   there's no indication that the [TS]

00:31:17   application is still running it [TS]

00:31:18   disappears from all of your different [TS]

00:31:19   scenarios now what they're trying to [TS]

00:31:22   move towards is a situation like an iOS [TS]

00:31:24   where iOS you don't know or aren't [TS]

00:31:27   supposed to know really whether [TS]

00:31:28   applications are running in autumn and [TS]

00:31:29   you do that double tap multitasking [TS]

00:31:31   thing all you see is a it's like least [TS]

00:31:33   most recently used ordered list of [TS]

00:31:35   applications and you tap on them and [TS]

00:31:37   they either launch or resume or you know [TS]

00:31:41   just switch back the application you're [TS]

00:31:43   not supposed to know whether always it [TS]

00:31:44   running before did it just launch him [TS]

00:31:46   and you can kind of tell based on how [TS]

00:31:47   long it takes to come up whether it was [TS]

00:31:48   running already or not but it's not [TS]

00:31:51   something the user is supposed to know [TS]

00:31:52   ideally but the thing about iOS is that [TS]

00:31:55   it's completely consistent when you [TS]

00:31:57   double tap that thing you see the list [TS]

00:31:59   of all the applications that you've used [TS]

00:32:00   in the order that you use them [TS]

00:32:01   regardless of which ones are running or [TS]

00:32:03   not but there are aspects of the Mac [TS]

00:32:05   os10 UI even line that don't behave that [TS]

00:32:07   way so for example the alt tab switcher [TS]

00:32:09   when the process goes away whether it [TS]

00:32:11   was auto terminated by by you know line [TS]

00:32:13   or whatever it's not in the alt tab [TS]

00:32:15   switcher anymore it still would be in [TS]

00:32:16   the iOS which is not on the alt tab [TS]

00:32:18   switcher and the same thing with the [TS]

00:32:19   dock if you have an application that has [TS]

00:32:20   a permanent home in the dock yeah it'll [TS]

00:32:22   still be in the dock but if you have an [TS]

00:32:23   application that was just transiently in [TS]

00:32:25   the dock and it got auto terminated it [TS]

00:32:26   will be gone from the dock and you can't [TS]

00:32:28   even go back and click on it so those [TS]

00:32:30   two parts of the lying UI don't work [TS]

00:32:32   like the equivalent part in iOS but the [TS]

00:32:36   process model where the OS has the right [TS]

00:32:38   to terminate a process that's not being [TS]

00:32:41   used does work that way you're saying [TS]

00:32:43   it's at half it's a half-baked [TS]

00:32:45   implementation this way it's not [TS]

00:32:46   half-baked it would work except for to [TS]

00:32:48   get because the like I said the the rule [TS]

00:32:51   making is very conservative like well do [TS]

00:32:53   you really care if lion kills a process [TS]

00:32:56   that has no visible windows you know and [TS]

00:33:00   it's not the front most application well [TS]

00:33:02   obviously you're not using it so it [TS]

00:33:03   shouldn't be a big deal but what has [TS]

00:33:05   come up in the case of a couple of [TS]

00:33:07   Apple's own applications is that [TS]

00:33:09   apparently there's no time limit on that [TS]

00:33:12   so he was a that was describing a [TS]

00:33:14   scenario where he would [TS]

00:33:15   have no open windows in application and [TS]

00:33:17   do like commando to open something and [TS]

00:33:19   say oh wait a second I forgot about [TS]

00:33:20   something hit escape cancel that go back [TS]

00:33:22   to what you were doing and it's okay now [TS]

00:33:23   I can go back to TextEdit and open it [TS]

00:33:25   but in the two seconds that he's that he [TS]

00:33:26   switched away from text editor do [TS]

00:33:27   something else during those two seconds [TS]

00:33:29   text said it wasn't the frontmost [TS]

00:33:30   application didn't have any visible [TS]

00:33:32   windows didn't have anyone those at all [TS]

00:33:33   and lion came along and reclaimed it and [TS]

00:33:36   so then TextEdit isn't running anymore [TS]

00:33:38   like wait a second text that it was [TS]

00:33:39   running two seconds ago did he crash I I [TS]

00:33:41   my thing that I came work for this [TS]

00:33:43   article from was that I didn't realize [TS]

00:33:46   the system would do that I thought there [TS]

00:33:47   had to be some sort of timer like oh and [TS]

00:33:49   also you haven't used it in like a [TS]

00:33:50   minute or 60 seconds or two minutes like [TS]

00:33:52   some sort of time lag so it is not just [TS]

00:33:54   like I stepped away for two seconds when [TS]

00:33:56   I came back the application was gone [TS]

00:33:58   right [TS]

00:33:59   that seems like I I think they can they [TS]

00:34:03   can get away with this sort of half [TS]

00:34:04   measure because I don't think for [TS]

00:34:06   example that people would like the alt [TS]

00:34:08   tab switcher to behave like the iOS one [TS]

00:34:11   where applications just simply don't go [TS]

00:34:13   away from there they just become [TS]

00:34:14   unordered because that becomes a too [TS]

00:34:15   unwieldy you know and I always said [TS]

00:34:18   works because you're kind of swiping [TS]

00:34:18   through the stuff or whatever but that [TS]

00:34:20   alt tab thing you can't just have a [TS]

00:34:22   continuous list of all the applications [TS]

00:34:24   you've ever longed for launched right [TS]

00:34:26   Riis or tit into you know the order on [TS]

00:34:29   your most recently used yeah it's not [TS]

00:34:31   I've asked a bunch of people John what [TS]

00:34:33   what they actually use the process [TS]

00:34:36   switcher in iOS for like how many people [TS]

00:34:39   like are you using it to actually go [TS]

00:34:41   back and find older apps that you [TS]

00:34:43   launched and time and time again people [TS]

00:34:46   answer the the same way that I use it [TS]

00:34:48   which is the same way that the John [TS]

00:34:50   Gruber told me he uses it by doing it's [TS]

00:34:52   just the most common is is that you're [TS]

00:34:53   going back to switch to the last app [TS]

00:34:56   that you had maybe maybe the what the [TS]

00:34:59   last two apps like so let's just let's [TS]

00:35:02   just make believe that you were going [TS]

00:35:03   back and forth between mail and you [TS]

00:35:05   wanted to send somebody a clipping from [TS]

00:35:06   an article so you'd you'd want you'd [TS]

00:35:10   launch the Mobile Safari you'd find the [TS]

00:35:11   article and then you double click the [TS]

00:35:15   home button and go back to mail paste it [TS]

00:35:18   in then like it's usually it's switching [TS]

00:35:19   back and forth between the last mail you [TS]

00:35:22   know the last app usually mHealth and [TS]

00:35:24   whatever other app you're grabbing [TS]

00:35:26   something from and that's like that time [TS]

00:35:27   and time again that's what people said [TS]

00:35:28   they were using it [TS]

00:35:29   just almost like they're just you [TS]

00:35:31   they're always going to that bottom [TS]

00:35:33   left-hand corner to grab the most recent [TS]

00:35:35   app that's it that's all they're doing [TS]

00:35:36   they're not really going back through [TS]

00:35:38   that lit where's on a computer but very [TS]

00:35:41   frequently you'll switch between one two [TS]

00:35:42   three four apps all at the same time [TS]

00:35:44   especially if your developer doesn't use [TS]

00:35:48   case right on iPhones you can't see that [TS]

00:35:51   many icons anyway see what you see four [TS]

00:35:53   or five right so that's that's pretty [TS]

00:35:55   much the limit of where you're gonna use [TS]

00:35:56   now I didn't [TS]

00:35:57   since my ipod doesn't support [TS]

00:35:59   multitasking because it's a second gen [TS]

00:36:00   the first time I really got to use [TS]

00:36:02   multitasking in earnest was at WWC one [TS]

00:36:05   at the iPad 2 there and I found myself [TS]

00:36:07   using most maybe the four or five I was [TS]

00:36:10   bouncing around between a lot of [TS]

00:36:11   applications was bouncing between [TS]

00:36:12   Simplenote Twitter my I am application [TS]

00:36:17   email Safari so that's five right there [TS]

00:36:19   just bouncing around them pretty much [TS]

00:36:22   randomly so I was using good four or [TS]

00:36:25   five of those I guess I never scrolled [TS]

00:36:27   it never went off to the next screen to [TS]

00:36:28   find that because if it's off that if [TS]

00:36:29   it's off that little list I might as [TS]

00:36:31   well just go back to the home screen [TS]

00:36:32   where I know where stuff is but I do [TS]

00:36:34   find that that model does work for me in [TS]

00:36:36   iOS where it's just especially the [TS]

00:36:38   reordering by at least recently used [TS]

00:36:40   because if you if I do get into a [TS]

00:36:42   sequence where I'm bouncing back and [TS]

00:36:43   forth between you know simple note and [TS]

00:36:45   Twitter I want it to reflect that simple [TS]

00:36:48   don't Twitter will quickly bubble up to [TS]

00:36:49   the top of you know the left side of the [TS]

00:36:51   list and I'll go back and forth between [TS]

00:36:52   them but if I'm bouncing around between [TS]

00:36:54   three of them they'll shuffle up to the [TS]

00:36:56   front you know it it's an adaptive [TS]

00:36:57   authoring type of thing that works for [TS]

00:36:59   me but in Mac OS 10 I think the most [TS]

00:37:02   common command tab thing is to go back [TS]

00:37:04   and forth between two two applications [TS]

00:37:05   so you go to one then you command tab [TS]

00:37:07   and find the other one and then after [TS]

00:37:09   that it's just one command tab to bounce [TS]

00:37:10   back and forth I don't tend to use it to [TS]

00:37:13   do anything more than quick switches [TS]

00:37:16   back and forth I'm going to switch to an [TS]

00:37:19   arbitrary application I use the dock for [TS]

00:37:20   that or drag thing depending on where my [TS]

00:37:23   cursor is because my drag thing I have a [TS]

00:37:25   processed oculus just the running [TS]

00:37:26   applications and there in the upper [TS]

00:37:27   right corner the reason that's there by [TS]

00:37:29   the way is as Apple's fault from the [TS]

00:37:31   micro is eight days eight point five [TS]

00:37:33   when when did the the process dock thing [TS]

00:37:37   come to as a necklace remember that I [TS]

00:37:39   think it was I [TS]

00:37:41   that it was some kind of extension or [TS]

00:37:43   add-on that came as part of Microsoft [TS]

00:37:45   Office oh no no it was part of the I was [TS]

00:37:47   co-opted it was co-opted in I think it [TS]

00:37:51   was an ally sure pretty sure was an [TS]

00:37:53   apple remembering this stuff but I could [TS]

00:37:55   have sworn that like it was part of [TS]

00:37:57   office I mean there's a chatroom no I [TS]

00:38:01   mean I'm ready to be wrong on this one [TS]

00:38:03   but they're saying I was eight five so I [TS]

00:38:05   thought coulda sworn it can't I read [TS]

00:38:07   because I remember here's what I [TS]

00:38:08   remembers I remember installing office [TS]

00:38:10   and you could tell which machines in in [TS]

00:38:14   my you know in our work group in our [TS]

00:38:16   work group of Macs [TS]

00:38:17   you knew immediately the people who had [TS]

00:38:19   office installed because this little [TS]

00:38:21   this little switcher would be up in the [TS]

00:38:23   menu bar it wasn't in the menu it was a [TS]

00:38:26   palette that you could make that would [TS]

00:38:28   have a little usually I have mine [TS]

00:38:29   configured to be 16 by 16 icons of all [TS]

00:38:32   the running applications I think I'm one [TS]

00:38:34   of them never know I know it now I know [TS]

00:38:37   what you're trying so I had that going [TS]

00:38:39   in the upper right corner was you're [TS]

00:38:41   right you're right I missed that thing [TS]

00:38:43   so I used reg thing drive soon as I went [TS]

00:38:46   away I you can make drag thing to almost [TS]

00:38:48   anything and I made drag thing I did too [TS]

00:38:50   although now mine are 32 by 32 icons [TS]

00:38:53   because of icon inflation but if I could [TS]

00:38:55   not have the doc as I think I've said [TS]

00:38:57   before if I could not have the doc [TS]

00:38:58   visible on the screen at all I would do [TS]

00:39:00   that but you can't because doc is the [TS]

00:39:02   only thing you can get notifications [TS]

00:39:03   like badges and you know bouncing and [TS]

00:39:06   all the other business and I need to I [TS]

00:39:07   want to see those badges and I want to [TS]

00:39:09   see when they bounce and because Apple [TS]

00:39:10   has that API completely wrapped up and [TS]

00:39:13   doesn't allow third parties to access it [TS]

00:39:14   I have to have both dragged thing and [TS]

00:39:17   the doc visible which then extremely [TS]

00:39:19   annoying you're crazy [TS]

00:39:21   the thing is if I don't run drag thing [TS]

00:39:24   my mouse goes that upper right-hand [TS]

00:39:26   corner it tries to switch to stuff like [TS]

00:39:28   I guess my mouse is always hovering [TS]

00:39:29   around the upper right more than it is [TS]

00:39:31   down at the bottom one if I have to drag [TS]

00:39:32   my mouse all way down to the bottom to [TS]

00:39:33   arbitrarily switch between applications [TS]

00:39:35   without all tapping like random access I [TS]

00:39:37   want to have you know my I am app come [TS]

00:39:39   to the front it's much faster for me to [TS]

00:39:42   do it with drag thing you know and the [TS]

00:39:44   right thing just grows in one direction [TS]

00:39:45   doesn't move around based on minimize [TS]

00:39:47   windows or anything else like that so [TS]

00:39:49   yeah how did we get onto that [TS]

00:39:54   termination yeah so the I think this is [TS]

00:40:00   a solvable problem I don't think as some [TS]

00:40:02   people have said see the iOS model can't [TS]

00:40:04   work on Mac os10 it I think this is [TS]

00:40:06   solvable with just better rules because [TS]

00:40:07   it's fine if it doesn't do something [TS]

00:40:10   unexpected like if I don't if I launched [TS]

00:40:12   TextEdit to quickly edit like I do my [TS]

00:40:15   show notes in sex ed if I launch test at [TS]

00:40:17   TextEdit to do my show notes and then [TS]

00:40:19   like two days later I hadn't used [TS]

00:40:23   TextEdit and TextEdit had since been [TS]

00:40:24   quit by the system's here to reclaim [TS]

00:40:26   resources I wouldn't notice and I [TS]

00:40:28   wouldn't care the next time I needed to [TS]

00:40:29   launch TextEdit I probably wouldn't even [TS]

00:40:31   remember that I used to have it in the [TS]

00:40:32   dock you know what I mean [TS]

00:40:34   but it has to be it has to be that the [TS]

00:40:39   rules have to be better about when it [TS]

00:40:41   thinks it's expected to versus [TS]

00:40:43   unexpected especially for Apple II it [TS]

00:40:44   would be best if it had an awareness of [TS]

00:40:46   is this application permanently in the [TS]

00:40:47   dock you know you can't tell by looking [TS]

00:40:49   at it but some of your applications have [TS]

00:40:50   you were to quit them they'll stay in [TS]

00:40:51   the dock because they're permanently [TS]

00:40:52   placed there that will happen if you [TS]

00:40:54   move one manually once it's running it [TS]

00:40:57   will become permanently placed or if you [TS]

00:40:58   say you know keeping the dock or [TS]

00:41:00   whatever or you drag you there without [TS]

00:41:01   launching it now many different ways it [TS]

00:41:03   can stay in the dock right I think it's [TS]

00:41:05   better to kill one of those off because [TS]

00:41:08   at least then it's still in the dock [TS]

00:41:09   when the person goes back to it they may [TS]

00:41:11   click on it and they might not even know [TS]

00:41:12   that it was killed that'll say I was [TS]

00:41:14   taking a while to switch to that [TS]

00:41:15   application then I would launch right I [TS]

00:41:17   think there has to be a time limit you [TS]

00:41:19   know even if it has no open windows [TS]

00:41:20   completely in the background you switch [TS]

00:41:21   away for two seconds the system should [TS]

00:41:23   not kill that and especially it should [TS]

00:41:25   not kill it if your system is not under [TS]

00:41:26   memory pressure which I imagine that [TS]

00:41:28   system was not under memory pressure why [TS]

00:41:30   would it be from you know going wait for [TS]

00:41:31   two seconds all of a sudden thinks it [TS]

00:41:33   needs ran back you know I never tend to [TS]

00:41:35   have a lot of RAM in their systems [TS]

00:41:36   anyway I would say don't kill a lot the [TS]

00:41:39   process unless you actually need the [TS]

00:41:41   resources and unless all the current [TS]

00:41:43   rules apply and it had there's been no [TS]

00:41:45   interaction with that application from [TS]

00:41:47   the user for X amount of time one minute [TS]

00:41:49   two minute five minutes something like [TS]

00:41:50   that it just needs a better set of rules [TS]

00:41:54   I think so I'm I think this and also the [TS]

00:41:57   great thing about this is that it's [TS]

00:41:59   opt-in and on a per application basis so [TS]

00:42:00   if you're writing a type of application [TS]

00:42:02   where you never want to be killed like [TS]

00:42:03   an IM application I don't think an IMAP [TS]

00:42:05   Legation which should read your who's [TS]

00:42:05   registered [TS]

00:42:06   for determination because even if known [TS]

00:42:08   has touched that I in application in 24 [TS]

00:42:10   hours people don't want their I am [TS]

00:42:11   application being terminated by the [TS]

00:42:12   system exactly available to give I am so [TS]

00:42:15   I might be an urgent urgent message [TS]

00:42:16   waiting to happen right it's not like [TS]

00:42:18   iOS burns [TS]

00:42:20   os wide policy where though you have no [TS]

00:42:22   choice in iOS you're going to get killed [TS]

00:42:24   if the system needs memory tough luck [TS]

00:42:26   Mac os10 I think they have struck the [TS]

00:42:28   right balance about this being opt in [TS]

00:42:30   and their real set is almost where it [TS]

00:42:32   should be I think they just need to [TS]

00:42:33   tweak so I expecting a point release [TS]

00:42:35   they may change us and as I said in my [TS]

00:42:37   review once one thing they may be going [TS]

00:42:39   for here is the idea what of Windows [TS]

00:42:41   switchers who expect it when you close [TS]

00:42:43   the last document the application quits [TS]

00:42:45   that's kind of a text edit behaves now [TS]

00:42:46   because if you close the last document [TS]

00:42:48   so which away from TextEdit and a couple [TS]

00:42:50   of seconds TextEdit is going to quit [TS]

00:42:51   right people window switchers may think [TS]

00:42:54   that's correct behavior Oh Mac people [TS]

00:42:55   are going to be pissed and I think even [TS]

00:42:58   Windows Twitter's will eventually [TS]

00:42:59   realize that's kind of annoying because [TS]

00:43:01   what if you just switched away for a [TS]

00:43:02   second and you come bettin you want to [TS]

00:43:03   come back to it and open something and [TS]

00:43:05   the application is gone especially if it [TS]

00:43:06   doesn't have a permanent home in your [TS]

00:43:07   dock which I imagine TextEdit doesn't [TS]

00:43:09   for most people that's then you gotta go [TS]

00:43:11   find it to get to go wherever recent [TS]

00:43:13   applications in a worst case man space [TS]

00:43:15   TX return you're going to get a lot of [TS]

00:43:20   people using a keyboard based launch [TS]

00:43:22   bars launch launchers after this I think [TS]

00:43:25   which is a good thing I don't know how [TS]

00:43:26   like look whenever I sit down at a [TS]

00:43:28   machine it doesn't have launch bar or [TS]

00:43:29   Quicksilver or something running that's [TS]

00:43:31   like that's like you know whenever I get [TS]

00:43:33   a new machine a lot of people have been [TS]

00:43:35   reading about on on the internet or [TS]

00:43:36   saying oh I'm doing if the first clean [TS]

00:43:38   install I've done in decades I think [TS]

00:43:41   Marco is even blogging about this Marco [TS]

00:43:44   host of build and analyze on this [TS]

00:43:45   network was saying oh I'm going to do a [TS]

00:43:48   clean install like I always do a clean [TS]

00:43:50   install like every single time it's then [TS]

00:43:52   we should talk about this on a whole [TS]

00:43:54   show a little bit more than we have in [TS]

00:43:55   the past but that is to say the lion is [TS]

00:43:57   the first operating system that I have [TS]

00:44:00   not done a fully clean install with it [TS]

00:44:03   and I've done that every single time and [TS]

00:44:04   that's only because I didn't go out and [TS]

00:44:07   buy a DVD I had to make one so I've done [TS]

00:44:10   a clean install on all the other [TS]

00:44:11   machines that I've done but every every [TS]

00:44:12   time I do I always do clean install [TS]

00:44:14   always do a clean install you're crazy [TS]

00:44:17   always do clean I don't want those get [TS]

00:44:18   garbage apps hang [TS]

00:44:20   for decades and weird settings and plist [TS]

00:44:22   files and cruft and I'll go in and I and [TS]

00:44:25   I try and run John I try and run as much [TS]

00:44:27   of a stock machine as I can when I sit [TS]

00:44:29   down at a machine you would think that I [TS]

00:44:31   just got this machine I haven't even [TS]

00:44:32   been using it and I might have been [TS]

00:44:34   using it for a year [TS]

00:44:35   I put the fewest apps on as I possibly [TS]

00:44:37   can I do I work as long as I can without [TS]

00:44:40   installing any apps or any customization [TS]

00:44:43   to doing anything like I'll change the [TS]

00:44:45   desktop to the grey or to the blue and [TS]

00:44:47   that's that's like that's the only thing [TS]

00:44:48   I'll put the dock on the right hand side [TS]

00:44:50   where it belongs and then I'll install [TS]

00:44:52   some kind of keyboard launcher and then [TS]

00:44:54   and that's it I try to go with it and [TS]

00:44:55   obviously you know within a few hours I [TS]

00:44:57   have BBEdit on there but I tried I try [TS]

00:45:01   to just go as stock as possible minimal [TS]

00:45:03   as possible [TS]

00:45:04   don't don't run star don't even install [TS]

00:45:06   an app until I really need it so I [TS]

00:45:08   absolutely can't do without it how many [TS]

00:45:10   apps you have on is different from [TS]

00:45:12   whether you do a clean install you and [TS]

00:45:13   always upgrade now I don't want I don't [TS]

00:45:15   want you having that cruft I don't want [TS]

00:45:16   any old settings I don't want any [TS]

00:45:18   preferences I want to see what what is [TS]

00:45:20   it what is Apple what does Steve think I [TS]

00:45:23   should what my experience should be like [TS]

00:45:25   let's start with that and anything that [TS]

00:45:27   I don't like of course I have veto power [TS]

00:45:29   to my machine will override it and [TS]

00:45:30   change it back but who wants all those [TS]

00:45:33   old settings hanging our animal at crap [TS]

00:45:35   what a decision I made for myself three [TS]

00:45:38   years ago is still valid today false so [TS]

00:45:41   you know I used to back in the classic [TS]

00:45:43   days I would do when there was an OS [TS]

00:45:45   upgrade I would try to do a sort of [TS]

00:45:47   clean install this I sound insane but [TS]

00:45:49   this is what I did back then I would [TS]

00:45:51   install the new operating system on to a [TS]

00:45:53   new driver partition but I would I still [TS]

00:45:56   have my old set up there and then I [TS]

00:45:59   would manually merge the old setups and [TS]

00:46:01   the new setups manually merge the system [TS]

00:46:03   folders by dragging out the files that I [TS]

00:46:05   knew needed to be in a certain location [TS]

00:46:06   to manually merge all the units all the [TS]

00:46:08   control panels all the fonts that I [TS]

00:46:11   wanted all the enablers and drivers [TS]

00:46:13   because I mean I think about it now is [TS]

00:46:16   insane that is this even work but [TS]

00:46:17   eventually you sort of learn the exact [TS]

00:46:20   subset of things that you need to move [TS]

00:46:21   is this part of the old operating system [TS]

00:46:23   or was this a custom thing that I [TS]

00:46:23   installed them where does it go and will [TS]

00:46:25   work on the new system I did that manual [TS]

00:46:27   merge upgrade from 1984 until Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:46:30   came out [TS]

00:46:32   and towards the end when I was doing it [TS]

00:46:34   on my Blume yg3 was getting kind of [TS]

00:46:36   tedious but it worked well for me [TS]

00:46:37   because I wouldn't bring along the [TS]

00:46:39   Preferences for the apps that I didn't [TS]

00:46:40   use anymore like oh I'm not going to run [TS]

00:46:42   that anymore I don't need that [TS]

00:46:43   preference you know and I would and I [TS]

00:46:46   would have a clean install you know and [TS]

00:46:47   I could slowly build up to it to see if [TS]

00:46:48   I broke something well let me drag that [TS]

00:46:49   back but usually it was just a one-shot [TS]

00:46:51   one-day type of operation I wouldn't do [TS]

00:46:53   it now though but when Mac os10 came [TS]

00:46:55   along I started doing upgrade installs [TS]

00:46:58   where when the new version came out I [TS]

00:46:59   installed on top of the old version and [TS]

00:47:00   that is all I have ever done and I have [TS]

00:47:02   never had a problem doing Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:47:04   upgrade install I always just felt right [TS]

00:47:07   on top of my other disk you know it's [TS]

00:47:09   like John we moved you know we moved [TS]

00:47:11   from Florida to Texas moved Austin and [TS]

00:47:14   we tried to really weed out everything [TS]

00:47:18   we didn't absolutely need to take with [TS]

00:47:19   us and what I must have done five [TS]

00:47:21   carloads to the goodwill of just [TS]

00:47:24   donating stuff and then when all our [TS]

00:47:26   stuff got here I there's still what is [TS]

00:47:30   all this crap what is this crap I don't [TS]

00:47:33   want this we didn't donate this we still [TS]

00:47:35   have this what is this here for you know [TS]

00:47:37   just everything every time I go up I'm [TS]

00:47:39   like why did I bring these t-shirts I [TS]

00:47:41   don't ever want to see these again well [TS]

00:47:44   they're good t-shirts right but sure I [TS]

00:47:45   could have donated them to Goodwill so [TS]

00:47:47   now I'm don't any more stuff to Goodwill [TS]

00:47:48   that I paid to bring here and that's how [TS]

00:47:51   I feel with the you have this giant [TS]

00:47:52   payload of stuff that you might not [TS]

00:47:55   really need so why bring it over well [TS]

00:47:57   here's why because the trade-off in this [TS]

00:48:00   situation is very different than the [TS]

00:48:01   moving situation the trade-off for me I [TS]

00:48:04   think and I think even for you if you [TS]

00:48:05   think about it between especially for [TS]

00:48:08   preferences and settings and stuff [TS]

00:48:09   between these microscopic relatively [TS]

00:48:11   speaking plist files the the burden that [TS]

00:48:15   they have that they're in the hidden [TS]

00:48:16   folder now you can't even see the [TS]

00:48:17   library folder they're buried in there [TS]

00:48:18   they're tiny files and not taking up [TS]

00:48:20   your disk base yes their clutter you [TS]

00:48:21   know if you know they're all is a plist [TS]

00:48:22   for an application I ran through user or [TS]

00:48:23   do I need that anymore no right so [TS]

00:48:26   that's the that's the negative right [TS]

00:48:27   from the positive side is if you happen [TS]

00:48:30   to launch that application that you [TS]

00:48:31   haven't launched in a while and all your [TS]

00:48:33   old settings are there to me the value [TS]

00:48:35   of not having to reset those preferences [TS]

00:48:37   or not realizing they're not it's not [TS]

00:48:38   set up the way I want it anymore it's so [TS]

00:48:40   tremendously outweighing the negative [TS]

00:48:43   value of this 3k file on my to Tara [TS]

00:48:45   white hard drive you know what I mean [TS]

00:48:47   it's not a science I want well it size [TS]

00:48:50   or number are like clutter like I don't [TS]

00:48:52   care that's why I have a big hard drive [TS]

00:48:53   I want if I could have and I was said [TS]

00:48:56   like I wouldn't have to bring over my [TS]

00:48:57   settings in the classic Mac OS world if [TS]

00:49:00   I didn't think I was gonna use an [TS]

00:49:01   application anymore [TS]

00:49:02   in practice the only time I ever did [TS]

00:49:03   that was like if I had a new version of [TS]

00:49:05   Office I wouldn't bring over the [TS]

00:49:05   Preferences for the old version right [TS]

00:49:07   but I kept like even up to maybe a year [TS]

00:49:11   ago I think I had preference files in my [TS]

00:49:13   Mac os10 preference folder for classic [TS]

00:49:15   Mac OS games like Silurian 2 or [TS]

00:49:17   something you know that had just moved [TS]

00:49:19   with me through the ages [TS]

00:49:21   just in case ever launched that thing [TS]

00:49:22   again or just in case of one of the [TS]

00:49:23   Preferences or one of my high score file [TS]

00:49:24   or one of my save filing the the [TS]

00:49:27   tremendous value of those little tiny [TS]

00:49:28   you know kilobyte files is so huge to me [TS]

00:49:31   that and the disk space cost and you [TS]

00:49:34   know clutter is so negligible I say [TS]

00:49:37   bring them all along because I do [TS]

00:49:39   configure my system the way I want it I [TS]

00:49:40   customized a lot I don't realize how [TS]

00:49:42   much I customized till I go on to a [TS]

00:49:43   bare-bones system and then I try to use [TS]

00:49:45   it and realize oh my god I customized [TS]

00:49:47   almost everything on this I didn't even [TS]

00:49:48   realize this was a default how do people [TS]

00:49:49   even use this I mean from stuff like the [TS]

00:49:52   translucent menu bar you know when I [TS]

00:49:53   went it you know that's like the the tip [TS]

00:49:57   of the iceberg on the number of things [TS]

00:49:58   that I don't even realize that I change [TS]

00:50:00   it like the double arrows on both ends [TS]

00:50:02   which I have in Snow Leopard I I can't [TS]

00:50:05   stand using system out those of course [TS]

00:50:06   line eliminates that entirely by not [TS]

00:50:08   having any arrows but that's I think [TS]

00:50:09   we've already talked about on on a [TS]

00:50:11   previous show but no I'd always do [TS]

00:50:13   upgrade installs I haven't had any [TS]

00:50:16   problems with it ever people who it's [TS]

00:50:18   kind of like the permissions you know [TS]

00:50:20   repair permissions voodoo but they're [TS]

00:50:22   like oh you have to do a clean install [TS]

00:50:23   or it won't work [TS]

00:50:23   it's it'll work fine it will don't worry [TS]

00:50:26   about don't worry about the Preferences [TS]

00:50:28   files cluttering stuff up if you keep a [TS]

00:50:29   clean system and you upgrade install the [TS]

00:50:31   clean system it'll still be clean right [TS]

00:50:33   you know don't have 20 applications on [TS]

00:50:35   there then you won't have a lot of [TS]

00:50:37   preferences and then when you do the [TS]

00:50:39   upgrade install it's not going to add [TS]

00:50:40   new preference this is going to it's [TS]

00:50:41   going to overwrite your old preferences [TS]

00:50:43   for energy saver or whatever with the [TS]

00:50:44   new versions or it'll read your old [TS]

00:50:45   preference it's like it's not it doesn't [TS]

00:50:47   add up all right so if you decide to use [TS]

00:50:49   which i think is a reasonable practice [TS]

00:50:50   especially for portables i think it's [TS]

00:50:52   good to do this your practice of don't [TS]

00:50:54   put every application in the world on [TS]

00:50:55   there just pull them on you know demand [TS]

00:50:57   page your applications in [TS]

00:50:59   and when you need one install it but [TS]

00:51:01   keep it to a minimal system and don't [TS]

00:51:02   tweak stuff tweak like the three things [TS]

00:51:04   that no you must change the change [TS]

00:51:05   desktop background change the the menu [TS]

00:51:07   bar change the scrolling speed the mouse [TS]

00:51:09   tracking and like three other things and [TS]

00:51:11   then you know you're all set I would [TS]

00:51:12   still say that it would annoy me if I [TS]

00:51:14   had to set up a new machine and change [TS]

00:51:15   all those settings like what was my old [TS]

00:51:16   Mouse tracking was at this so this [TS]

00:51:18   actually feels a little bit faster maybe [TS]

00:51:19   I had a wrong key I go three I like that [TS]

00:51:21   I like that the re-evaluation at that [TS]

00:51:25   cost I don't like you know I'm fine with [TS]

00:51:27   certain things being the way they are [TS]

00:51:28   but now maybe maybe there's something I [TS]

00:51:30   was missing out like this like this [TS]

00:51:31   window zooming that we turn it off I [TS]

00:51:33   turned I turned it back on you're out of [TS]

00:51:36   control [TS]

00:51:37   I turned it back on why because I felt [TS]

00:51:40   like you know I didn't maybe I didn't [TS]

00:51:41   give it enough chance like it was open [TS]

00:51:43   it was so it made me feel so sick to my [TS]

00:51:46   stomach that I just instantaneously [TS]

00:51:47   turned it off and I said you know what [TS]

00:51:49   wait a minute what am I so scared of let [TS]

00:51:51   me see what is exactly Steve wants me to [TS]

00:51:53   try here so I kind of turned it back on [TS]

00:51:55   and then you know it's not so bad I mean [TS]

00:52:00   I I didn't know how to turn it off for [TS]

00:52:02   the months I was using the dev builds [TS]

00:52:04   and that was enough to sour me on it [TS]

00:52:05   forever maybe it's because I was [TS]

00:52:07   creating lots of new windows while [TS]

00:52:09   testing maybe I don't know but yeah I'm [TS]

00:52:11   gonna have it off and I'm never going to [TS]

00:52:12   look back same thing with the [TS]

00:52:12   translation menu bar I'm not going to [TS]

00:52:14   revisit though you know what no I that [TS]

00:52:15   I'm with you there that's something [TS]

00:52:17   that's just silly it's horrible it's [TS]

00:52:20   pretty silly all right so the wait a [TS]

00:52:23   minute let's do is I can sponsor its [TS]

00:52:25   campaign monitor now these guys just [TS]

00:52:27   released an is their word but I will [TS]

00:52:30   second it's not a word that's normally [TS]

00:52:31   in my vocabulary gorgeous they send over [TS]

00:52:35   they send over some you know points that [TS]

00:52:37   they want me to use but you know maybe [TS]

00:52:39   you could talk but I'll you know what [TS]

00:52:40   I'll use it they have released a [TS]

00:52:42   gorgeous update to their email editor [TS]

00:52:44   it's true then lists lets you design [TS]

00:52:46   even more flexible email templates and [TS]

00:52:48   to celebrate they are giving away 100 [TS]

00:52:51   free templates that doesn't mean to 100 [TS]

00:52:53   people that means they have a hundred [TS]

00:52:55   templates that they're giving away to [TS]

00:52:57   everybody these are done by some of the [TS]

00:53:00   best designers on the web you can go to [TS]

00:53:02   campaign monitor comm slash templates [TS]

00:53:04   and you can see these things when you go [TS]

00:53:07   there you can also catch a demo of their [TS]

00:53:08   new editor which is really really really [TS]

00:53:10   cool it's amazing [TS]

00:53:12   and this will be in action at the same [TS]

00:53:14   address Oh campaign monitor calm slash [TS]

00:53:16   template these guys are great long time [TS]

00:53:18   supporter 5x5 love these guys they they [TS]

00:53:21   have amazing amazing analytics when you [TS]

00:53:24   send your campaigns with them so please [TS]

00:53:25   do go check them out campaign monitor [TS]

00:53:26   calm thanks very much to them for making [TS]

00:53:29   it possible I'll have a smorgasbord of [TS]

00:53:34   other topics we can go to so many that [TS]

00:53:36   we didn't get to I'll rattle some off [TS]

00:53:38   and you pick whichever one you think [TS]

00:53:39   will fit in our scant remaining time [TS]

00:53:41   sure um Ark won't fit so forget about [TS]

00:53:46   that people really want the ark I know I [TS]

00:53:48   really want the ark they were very I [TS]

00:53:50   just listening for the record a lot of [TS]

00:53:52   people very upset with me that I [TS]

00:53:53   discouraged you from talking about Ark [TS]

00:53:55   so I'll put it right myself why don't we [TS]

00:53:57   just do a whole show just about Ark it [TS]

00:53:59   won't be that long but we'll get to it [TS]

00:54:01   but it's not enough time now BBEdit [TS]

00:54:02   versus textmate iCloud Web Apps patents [TS]

00:54:06   markdown is too long yeah so those are [TS]

00:54:09   your choices doesn't happen thank God [TS]

00:54:12   Web Apps BBEdit versus textmate what can [TS]

00:54:14   we do in 15 10 15 minutes Oh any of [TS]

00:54:17   those I think I can do really and you [TS]

00:54:19   thought you could do the other thing in [TS]

00:54:20   30 seconds look at that yes I'm [TS]

00:54:21   notoriously bad at knowing how long [TS]

00:54:23   Thanks [TS]

00:54:24   give me my choices again I heard patents [TS]

00:54:26   I heard BBEdit versus textmate those [TS]

00:54:27   could you kind of jumped out at me [TS]

00:54:28   iCloud Web Apps mmm I know we could do [TS]

00:54:32   that in 15 minutes but I want to save [TS]

00:54:34   that cuz I haven't really gotten to dive [TS]

00:54:36   in with those yet all right so do you [TS]

00:54:38   want let's do the BBEdit textmate [TS]

00:54:41   textmate discussion because i after this [TS]

00:54:43   i don't want ever talk about that again [TS]

00:54:45   yeah that's why I think I'd only think [TS]

00:54:46   for new ministries you did talk about it [TS]

00:54:48   a lot that's why it's even on my list [TS]

00:54:49   hearing everyone else okay let's get [TS]

00:54:51   let's let's uh you know how like it have [TS]

00:54:52   you ever you ever eaten something that [TS]

00:54:54   didn't agree with you and you can you [TS]

00:54:57   can feel your stomach starting to get [TS]

00:54:59   upset and you know that and until your [TS]

00:55:03   body finally gets to the point where [TS]

00:55:05   it's just gonna barf out everything you [TS]

00:55:07   just ate that you're going to be really [TS]

00:55:08   unpleasant but after you barf [TS]

00:55:10   after that the vomit is gone and you're [TS]

00:55:12   done that you're gonna feel you'll feel [TS]

00:55:14   human again you'll feel great again this [TS]

00:55:16   is how I feel about this discussion [TS]

00:55:18   let's do it I didn't get a verse like [TS]

00:55:20   you're describing what it feels like [TS]

00:55:21   these VI [TS]

00:55:23   no guys find that was actually apropos [TS]

00:55:25   for Emacs no all right it's your VI guy [TS]

00:55:29   of course because I'm sane rational and [TS]

00:55:32   intelligent no no I can't believe here [TS]

00:55:35   well does that fit with Buddhism I guess [TS]

00:55:37   it kind of does anyway I don't I don't [TS]

00:55:40   want a text editor to control the [TS]

00:55:42   lighting in my house for example so I [TS]

00:55:44   have no use for Emacs says the guy who [TS]

00:55:46   is using text mate for years because it [TS]

00:55:49   duplicates you're typing down columns [TS]

00:55:51   when you can and you can make HTML just [TS]

00:55:53   like your hero DHH yeah you ever use [TS]

00:55:55   those features of text native matters [TS]

00:55:57   it's not a memory and CPU going into [TS]

00:56:00   making textmate work thanks Emacs look [TS]

00:56:03   like I am a BB edit user I always have [TS]

00:56:05   been I also I used text made with rails [TS]

00:56:07   because there was a period of very dark [TS]

00:56:09   time period for BBEdit where you could [TS]

00:56:11   not easily and and with the you know two [TS]

00:56:14   clicks open an entire folder now you can [TS]

00:56:17   and that is called the Dan Benjamin [TS]

00:56:19   feature ask the BBEdit people if that is [TS]

00:56:22   not called the Dan Benjamin feature that [TS]

00:56:23   is the Dan Benjamin feature they built [TS]

00:56:25   that just for me and that allowed me to [TS]

00:56:28   return to BB edit for a hundred percent [TS]

00:56:30   of my text editing all right so go go [TS]

00:56:34   ahead let's talk about yet in text me so [TS]

00:56:35   every night I have been using BB edit [TS]

00:56:37   since it had an awesome icon that wasn't [TS]

00:56:39   twisted since I guess version 2 you [TS]

00:56:42   don't you don't like the new icon I [TS]

00:56:44   don't like that it's twisted I don't use [TS]

00:56:47   that icon I use a custom icon it's not [TS]

00:56:48   twisted should be straight up and down [TS]

00:56:50   but yeah BBEdit since I guess maybe [TS]

00:56:53   version 2.5 ages and ages ago and [TS]

00:56:55   classic Mac OS using BB edit I don't [TS]

00:56:57   even know how I came to use it or where [TS]

00:56:59   I heard of it it's just sort of always [TS]

00:57:00   been there it's my Texas it's the first [TS]

00:57:02   text editor I didn't when I didn't know [TS]

00:57:04   what a text editor was BBA was the first [TS]

00:57:06   one I ever used and so BBA what is that [TS]

00:57:08   I guess you call that a text editor like [TS]

00:57:09   I had no awareness of VI or Emacs so you [TS]

00:57:12   know my kid when this came out and so [TS]

00:57:15   that's what I use now and and what [TS]

00:57:19   distinguished it from teach text or [TS]

00:57:21   simple text teach text Google that kids [TS]

00:57:24   was that it was unstyled text you were [TS]

00:57:27   making plain text files that was that [TS]

00:57:29   sooner text a text editor from something [TS]

00:57:32   they can do fonts or RTF or tables or [TS]

00:57:35   you know anything [TS]

00:57:36   Microsoft Word anything like that now [TS]

00:57:39   someone had a question to chatroom that [TS]

00:57:41   we wanted to address here about changing [TS]

00:57:43   the app icons they wanted to ask if you [TS]

00:57:45   could change the application icon [TS]

00:57:46   without baking breaking the code [TS]

00:57:48   signature like so Mac OS 10 applications [TS]

00:57:50   are signed now and it's supposed to be [TS]

00:57:54   able to have something tampers with them [TS]

00:57:55   so if you launch into the signature is [TS]

00:57:56   invalid because someone tampered with [TS]

00:57:57   the executable like you got hacked by a [TS]

00:57:59   virus or something like you would know [TS]

00:58:00   about it would say the signatures bad so [TS]

00:58:02   when you sign an application you can [TS]

00:58:03   also put exclusions in there you can say [TS]

00:58:06   well you know the executable is [TS]

00:58:07   important and this this and this file [TS]

00:58:08   and the nib file and so on and so forth [TS]

00:58:10   but you can also say but if someone [TS]

00:58:12   changes the icon doesn't matter it [TS]

00:58:14   doesn't change our application signature [TS]

00:58:15   like that there's no there's no way you [TS]

00:58:16   could hack me through this you can [TS]

00:58:17   exclude files from the signature now I [TS]

00:58:19   don't know BB a does that all I know is [TS]

00:58:20   that I've been changing the icon to BB [TS]

00:58:22   edit ever since it twisted and it has [TS]

00:58:24   never complained to me so I'm assuming [TS]

00:58:25   the icon is excluded from the [TS]

00:58:27   application signature all right so [TS]

00:58:30   anyway I was using BB edit for years and [TS]

00:58:32   years then I discovered the world of [TS]

00:58:33   UNIX and then you discover the world of [TS]

00:58:35   UNIX you quickly discover VI Emacs [TS]

00:58:37   I quickly mined in Emacs direction for [TS]

00:58:40   reasons that I want to get into now [TS]

00:58:41   because that's a whole other thing [TS]

00:58:42   though yeah ah because you like to [TS]

00:58:44   control the lighting in your house ya [TS]

00:58:46   know so before the Emacs thing there was [TS]

00:58:48   a cup at least one other text editor [TS]

00:58:51   that appeared on the Mac that I tried [TS]

00:58:52   alongside BBEdit I believe it was called [TS]

00:58:53   alpha do you remember that hmm no I [TS]

00:58:59   don't so this this had I figure what the [TS]

00:59:03   icon was maybe like a ugly TLA or [TS]

00:59:04   something like that but the thing that [TS]

00:59:06   distinguished it from BB I did was [TS]

00:59:08   similar type of thing like a text editor [TS]

00:59:10   programming type thing but the thing to [TS]

00:59:11   distinguish it was it was programmable [TS]

00:59:13   with tickle I believe of all things so [TS]

00:59:16   that you could extend the text editor by [TS]

00:59:19   writing little programs and you know in [TS]

00:59:22   Emacs fashion now I'd never heard you [TS]

00:59:25   max before up to that point but you know [TS]

00:59:27   so alpha was kind of not as stable to be [TS]

00:59:30   be edited not as nice an interface not [TS]

00:59:32   as robust and the programming thing was [TS]

00:59:34   a little bit too complicated for me and [TS]

00:59:36   BB I did most of the stuff I wanted off [TS]

00:59:37   the bat anyway so I didn't really deal [TS]

00:59:39   with it but when I discovered Emacs [TS]

00:59:40   Emacs and now for both examples of what [TS]

00:59:43   I like to call programmable text editors [TS]

00:59:44   that everybody calls programmable text [TS]

00:59:45   editors where [TS]

00:59:47   Emax that you know people say it's an [TS]

00:59:49   operating system or it's big and bloated [TS]

00:59:51   this was back in the days when machines [TS]

00:59:52   had four megabytes of RAM and he was [TS]

00:59:54   bloated in those days but I Emacs didn't [TS]

00:59:56   get any bigger but machines got way [TS]

00:59:57   bigger so you max is not bloated anymore [TS]

00:59:59   but think about [TS]

00:59:59   but think about [TS]

01:00:00   max that makes people think it's like [TS]

01:00:01   you were to saying controlling lights in [TS]

01:00:02   your houses that it's a programmable [TS]

01:00:04   text editor people say it's an operating [TS]

01:00:05   system not a text editor it is literally [TS]

01:00:07   an environment an environment in which [TS]

01:00:09   you can write programs so you can make [TS]

01:00:12   Emacs do anything within the bounds of [TS]

01:00:16   the user interface it provides for you [TS]

01:00:18   so if if you want something to happen [TS]

01:00:19   inside a window involving text and [TS]

01:00:21   you're willing to program it you can [TS]

01:00:23   make Emacs do it it is extensible by the [TS]

01:00:25   user and there's no distinction really [TS]

01:00:28   between the things that come with email [TS]

01:00:31   acts and things that you program so for [TS]

01:00:33   example in Emacs when you know you [TS]

01:00:35   control e to go to the end of line you [TS]

01:00:38   could write the go to end of line [TS]

01:00:40   routine and bind it to control e and [TS]

01:00:42   yours would have you know the built-in [TS]

01:00:45   one is no more built-in than yours is [TS]

01:00:47   you know implementation wise it may be a [TS]

01:00:49   difference but it's completely level [TS]

01:00:51   playing field in terms of how the text [TS]

01:00:53   editor works and what it does and this [TS]

01:00:55   is allow people to build essentially [TS]

01:00:56   applications on top of you max like Elm [TS]

01:00:58   not Elma no good news rather am I saying [TS]

01:01:02   that right someone's gonna tell me [TS]

01:01:03   tonight that's my shoes I think I knew [TS]

01:01:05   it yeah so as a male and I say Elm [TS]

01:01:08   because it's a male thing a male and [TS]

01:01:10   news reader inside Emacs and there are [TS]

01:01:11   shell things and there are the modes for [TS]

01:01:13   doing HTML and tons of programming modes [TS]

01:01:16   where you hit the tab key and it [TS]

01:01:18   magically Rhian dents all your code and [TS]

01:01:20   syntax highlighting and all you know so [TS]

01:01:22   anything you can it's it's [TS]

01:01:24   turing-complete like so if if you want [TS]

01:01:26   something to happen when you hit a key [TS]

01:01:27   you can program Emacs to do that just [TS]

01:01:31   now the VI is very different for other [TS]

01:01:32   reasons in terms of the interface and [TS]

01:01:33   the modes and all that stuff but VI is [TS]

01:01:35   less of a programmable text editor it's [TS]

01:01:38   more of a a text editor built for some [TS]

01:01:40   particular philosophy with a set of [TS]

01:01:41   features that you can extend you know by [TS]

01:01:44   making your no settings and preferences [TS]

01:01:47   in a certain way but as far as I know it [TS]

01:01:48   is not programmable in the same way as [TS]

01:01:50   the Azim axis and I think this is the [TS]

01:01:53   big distinction between things like [TS]

01:01:55   BBEdit textmate and I guess VI and [TS]

01:01:59   things like Emacs alpha and any other [TS]

01:02:02   programmable text editors out there now [TS]

01:02:05   I think this is distinction is important [TS]

01:02:07   because one of the knocks against BBEdit [TS]

01:02:11   is that [TS]

01:02:13   it doesn't have a lot of the features [TS]

01:02:14   that insert your favorite text editor [TS]

01:02:16   here has so if your favorite text editor [TS]

01:02:18   is Emacs then you can basically say [TS]

01:02:20   every text editor existence doesn't have [TS]

01:02:22   whatever features you like because if [TS]

01:02:24   anything is exists in text editing you [TS]

01:02:26   can do it in Emacs like well I really [TS]

01:02:28   like it when I type this key for this to [TS]

01:02:30   happen and why is it happening that way [TS]

01:02:31   well because I have is da TL file that I [TS]

01:02:33   wrote or I Karl called it from somebody [TS]

01:02:35   or I found somewhere on the net 10 years [TS]

01:02:37   ago and it does that [TS]

01:02:38   Kandice VBA to do that well bb8 it's not [TS]

01:02:41   a programmable text editor even though [TS]

01:02:42   it has an extension mechanism but you [TS]

01:02:44   can write scripts and do stuff or [TS]

01:02:45   whatever it is not like literally [TS]

01:02:46   programmable at the same level as Emacs [TS]

01:02:49   so BB edit doesn't do that thing that [TS]

01:02:50   you want to do and none of the built-in [TS]

01:02:52   features can be bound to that keystroke [TS]

01:02:54   or you can't bind a keystroke to a [TS]

01:02:56   script that does the thing that you want [TS]

01:02:57   to do or it's unfeasible to have a [TS]

01:03:00   script executed every time you hit that [TS]

01:03:01   command you know you can say well well [TS]

01:03:03   no it doesn't and the odds are very high [TS]

01:03:06   that if you're a heavy Emacs user and [TS]

01:03:08   you've tailed your environment your [TS]

01:03:09   specific needs you're gonna have things [TS]

01:03:12   that you really really like to do that [TS]

01:03:13   are not built into bb-8 and millions of [TS]

01:03:15   other UMAX users like you have their pet [TS]

01:03:17   features that aren't going to be in [TS]

01:03:18   BBEdit [TS]

01:03:19   now text and text might did a whole [TS]

01:03:21   bunch of stuff that also was in vb i [TS]

01:03:22   just mentioned the the stuff they see on [TS]

01:03:24   this on the rails demo of repeating the [TS]

01:03:26   the text in multiple columns you know [TS]

01:03:28   saving you work or bouncing HTML tags [TS]

01:03:31   automatically or tabbing through the [TS]

01:03:33   attributes of an HTML tag or all sorts [TS]

01:03:34   of stuff that was built into text made [TS]

01:03:36   textmate was also more programmable than [TS]

01:03:40   BBEdit not as programmable zmax but the [TS]

01:03:43   the mechanism through which you extend [TS]

01:03:46   text mate was more flexible than what [TS]

01:03:47   bb-8 did they have those bundles where [TS]

01:03:49   you had you could have our but not [TS]

01:03:52   arbitrary code but close to arbitrary [TS]

01:03:55   things happening in response to [TS]

01:03:56   keystrokes in particular contexts now [TS]

01:03:59   the the business about what context are [TS]

01:04:01   you in and what language em in in this [TS]

01:04:03   particular place and what bundles are [TS]

01:04:04   active for this language and stuff like [TS]

01:04:05   that that's built into text innate in [TS]

01:04:08   the Emacs world even that concept would [TS]

01:04:09   be programmable so text made is not as [TS]

01:04:13   originally defined as VB etagere you [TS]

01:04:14   know but it has a more extensible [TS]

01:04:16   mechanism for changing the behavior [TS]

01:04:19   so that foster this big community of [TS]

01:04:22   Texan I'd bundles so that you know the [TS]

01:04:24   features that you're wowed by text my [TS]

01:04:26   doing the beginning people made more of [TS]

01:04:28   those things and I pass them around so [TS]

01:04:29   it was kind of like Emacs on training [TS]

01:04:32   wheels where you didn't have to know a [TS]

01:04:34   lisp and be a real programmer to do even [TS]

01:04:38   relatively simple things you you could [TS]

01:04:40   take someone else's bundle and modify it [TS]

01:04:41   you could write your own simple bundle [TS]

01:04:43   pretty easily you could look at someone [TS]

01:04:45   else's bundle and figure out how to [TS]

01:04:46   write one and make one so that sort of [TS]

01:04:49   gave text made a letter a leg up and I [TS]

01:04:51   think that is still the strength of text [TS]

01:04:53   made any max versus BBEdit in it if [TS]

01:04:56   there's a particular thing that you want [TS]

01:04:57   to do in BBEdit and it doesn't fit into [TS]

01:05:00   BBS extension mechanisms you're kind of [TS]

01:05:03   stuck and that makes people say well I [TS]

01:05:05   tried BBEdit but it didn't have my pet [TS]

01:05:06   feature and I couldn't figure out how to [TS]

01:05:07   add it and so I switched back and I can [TS]

01:05:09   sympathize with that because it's the [TS]

01:05:11   same way with me with some of BiBi at [TS]

01:05:13   its features where bebe ADA has some [TS]

01:05:14   built-in features that I use frequently [TS]

01:05:16   and I'll go to text mate and say all [TS]

01:05:17   text mate doesn't have that built-in [TS]

01:05:18   feature though so yeah but you can get [TS]

01:05:20   this bundle and combine it with that [TS]

01:05:21   bundle and kind of approximated and it's [TS]

01:05:23   like but I don't know I don't have that [TS]

01:05:24   knowledge upfront I don't know what [TS]

01:05:25   those bundles are where they are and I [TS]

01:05:27   don't want to put in the work to do and [TS]

01:05:28   BBEdit already does out of the box and [TS]

01:05:30   it's a built-in feature you know so I [TS]

01:05:32   think text editors tend to isolate us [TS]

01:05:34   into little islands where we get stuff [TS]

01:05:35   the way we want it and as long as that [TS]

01:05:37   Island doesn't sink into the ocean text [TS]

01:05:39   mate - if we stay on our islands and do [TS]

01:05:42   our thing [TS]

01:05:43   but it doesn't mean that there's not you [TS]

01:05:46   know regardless of the things that keep [TS]

01:05:49   us on our little islands there each text [TS]

01:05:51   Center has individual strengths and [TS]

01:05:52   weaknesses for me the biggest strengths [TS]

01:05:56   of BBEdit [TS]

01:05:56   ignoring like how its actively developed [TS]

01:05:59   and you know they fix bugs and so on and [TS]

01:06:01   so forth like that and also ignoring [TS]

01:06:03   like the carbon versus cocoa 64-bit [TS]

01:06:05   business the big thing of BBEdit that [TS]

01:06:07   I've always loved is that it's been [TS]

01:06:08   reliable and powerful what I mean by [TS]

01:06:11   powerful is that I routinely opened [TS]

01:06:13   files with hundreds of thousands of [TS]

01:06:15   lines of text in them you know megabyte [TS]

01:06:17   files I haven't think I've opened a [TS]

01:06:18   gigabyte one yet but if I did I would [TS]

01:06:19   just assume it would work in BBEdit [TS]

01:06:21   I do that all the time log files other [TS]

01:06:24   things like copying and pasting I have a [TS]

01:06:25   the unlimited scroll back setting on my [TS]

01:06:28   terminal windows so I'll frequently be [TS]

01:06:29   tailing a log that's getting a lot of [TS]

01:06:31   activity I'll do select all copy [TS]

01:06:33   and then all tab over to it BBEdit and [TS]

01:06:36   then command option shift n to make a [TS]

01:06:38   new document with the contents of the [TS]

01:06:39   clipboard that's all you know reflexive [TS]

01:06:41   that's an example for example a feature [TS]

01:06:43   that I would want to have or create in [TS]

01:06:46   any other text editor the ability to [TS]

01:06:48   quickly create a document with the [TS]

01:06:49   contents of the clipboard and have it [TS]

01:06:50   bound to that exact command go that's my [TS]

01:06:51   muscle memory but anyway I do that and [TS]

01:06:54   sometimes I don't even think about what [TS]

01:06:55   I'm doing it just happens instantly it's [TS]

01:06:56   really fast and then I'll be at the [TS]

01:06:57   bottom of the document and and the line [TS]

01:06:59   number counter will say seven hundred [TS]

01:07:01   thousand three hundred and thirty two [TS]

01:07:02   and I realize I just I just copied and [TS]

01:07:04   pasted it's seven hundred thousand lines [TS]

01:07:05   of text into a document and then I'll [TS]

01:07:07   just do process lines and like you know [TS]

01:07:08   modify those lines with a regular [TS]

01:07:10   expression BBEdit Schwartz Pro regular [TS]

01:07:12   expressions which as you can imagine I [TS]

01:07:14   love because I I know Perl and I know [TS]

01:07:15   that regular expressions I have Perl [TS]

01:07:18   script filters that I run on things like [TS]

01:07:20   that it's very high performance with [TS]

01:07:22   very huge files and that's one of the [TS]

01:07:23   knocks against textmate historically it [TS]

01:07:25   was text made one in the early days [TS]

01:07:27   especially was it was really bad [TS]

01:07:29   performance with large files and that's [TS]

01:07:30   just a non-starter for me that that [TS]

01:07:32   stops me from using the application [TS]

01:07:35   because you know if it beachballs like [TS]

01:07:38   that though I've never seen TextEdit [TS]

01:07:40   beachball because I haven't used it [TS]

01:07:41   it was densely enough to to see it do [TS]

01:07:43   that but I've heard people say oh I [TS]

01:07:44   pasted in a few thousand lines and the [TS]

01:07:46   beach balls forget it I wouldn't I would [TS]

01:07:48   never launch that application again in [TS]

01:07:50   my astute work it has to be reliable and [TS]

01:07:51   it has to be high performance really [TS]

01:07:53   really big files another thing is like [TS]

01:07:55   the multi file search or maybe edit [TS]

01:07:56   other editors have multi file search ppi [TS]

01:07:59   it's multi file search is fast fast [TS]

01:08:01   shows me the results in a nice compact [TS]

01:08:03   way BBEdit diff with the character level [TS]

01:08:04   diffs these your features I use every [TS]

01:08:07   day I do huge documents I want to see [TS]

01:08:08   the character ranges I want to be able [TS]

01:08:09   to go down through with it with the [TS]

01:08:10   arrow keys and push changes back and [TS]

01:08:12   forth integrated into the application a [TS]

01:08:14   quick way to diff the frontmost to [TS]

01:08:16   documents like it's all part of my [TS]

01:08:18   workflow but the thing that keeps me [TS]

01:08:20   going back to BBEdit is that it is a tie [TS]

01:08:22   performance it's like it's like a [TS]

01:08:24   programmer serious tool and a lot of the [TS]

01:08:26   things that are dings against BBEdit [TS]

01:08:30   have to do with its nature as that type [TS]

01:08:33   of high performance tool so what I [TS]

01:08:34   imagine text makes problem is when you [TS]

01:08:37   paste in huge amounts of text it may [TS]

01:08:39   just be there using the standard text [TS]

01:08:40   control at least they were back in the [TS]

01:08:42   early days but textmate has an awareness [TS]

01:08:44   of within a document what are the [TS]

01:08:46   what is the syntax in this range and you [TS]

01:08:48   know what bundles apply here and so on [TS]

01:08:50   and so forth and that requires some sort [TS]

01:08:51   of dynamic processing of the content of [TS]

01:08:53   the document and maybe they're doing in [TS]

01:08:55   a naive way or whatever but BBEdit [TS]

01:08:57   unconstrained by those things bb-8 has a [TS]

01:08:59   global switch for what language document [TS]

01:09:01   is in it allows you to splat a bunch of [TS]

01:09:05   text there without having the editor say [TS]

01:09:07   like I got a parse all this text and try [TS]

01:09:09   to highlight the keywords or figure out [TS]

01:09:11   what fold I'm in or where the curly [TS]

01:09:14   braces are or if this is balanced or not [TS]

01:09:16   a so on and so forth that there's a [TS]

01:09:19   trade-off between figure out the syntax [TS]

01:09:21   of the thing that's in this document and [TS]

01:09:23   do smart things based on that and be [TS]

01:09:25   really fast and currently BBEdit swings [TS]

01:09:27   heavily under the be really fast side [TS]

01:09:29   now I'm the first one to complain to [TS]

01:09:31   bare bones and stuff that's hey I want [TS]

01:09:33   this cool feature from text made or [TS]

01:09:35   Emacs where it has an awareness of what [TS]

01:09:37   language I'm in and it gives me [TS]

01:09:39   completions based on that and I can have [TS]

01:09:40   a multi-language document and language [TS]

01:09:42   is not a global setting all right I [TS]

01:09:44   asked for those features because I'm [TS]

01:09:46   just complaining user and I want [TS]

01:09:47   everything right but the current [TS]

01:09:49   situation I believe that the lack of a [TS]

01:09:52   lot of those features is one of the [TS]

01:09:54   things that makes BB yet it's so darn [TS]

01:09:55   fast and reliable so I think there [TS]

01:09:57   should be a balance struck somewhere in [TS]

01:09:59   the middle but textmate is way over to [TS]

01:10:01   the other side of this continuum and [TS]

01:10:02   right now despite BB edits failings in [TS]

01:10:05   these few areas it's the one that I [TS]

01:10:07   continue to use it's same thing with [TS]

01:10:08   Emacs like Emacs C pearl mode and Emacs [TS]

01:10:10   has better magical indenting and key [TS]

01:10:13   wording and stuff like that and I kind [TS]

01:10:14   of missed that in BBEdit [TS]

01:10:15   but on the other hand Emacs even little [TS]

01:10:20   dinky mess can feel slower when I'm [TS]

01:10:21   doing that and I really don't like it [TS]

01:10:23   when I type a key in a text editor and a [TS]

01:10:25   whole bunch of stuff appears like when [TS]

01:10:28   you want it it's cool and magical when [TS]

01:10:29   you're doing a demo it looks awesome but [TS]

01:10:31   when you accidentally hit return and it [TS]

01:10:33   doubled matches your curly braces and [TS]

01:10:34   puts you inside the parens of a for loop [TS]

01:10:36   and you just wanted to go to the next [TS]

01:10:37   line that pisses me off and I'll have to [TS]

01:10:39   clean up the cross the text editor put [TS]

01:10:40   for me so there's a balance between that [TS]

01:10:42   that needs to be struck but my taste [TS]

01:10:46   leans more towards the BBEdit way right [TS]

01:10:49   now so that's that's my personal BBEdit [TS]

01:10:52   versus text my thing as far as you and [TS]

01:10:54   Merrill and the other people who are [TS]

01:10:55   switching from text mate and stuff like [TS]

01:10:57   that I completely sympathize with the [TS]

01:10:59   Tran [TS]

01:11:00   because you you build up a little [TS]

01:11:02   kingdom for yourself in your text editor [TS]

01:11:04   with your keyboard shortcuts with your [TS]

01:11:07   UNIX filters with your bundles with [TS]

01:11:09   whatever whatever feature that your text [TS]

01:11:11   editor has that you use a lot of we'll [TS]

01:11:13   see Merlin as the Merlin does a heck of [TS]

01:11:15   a lot more than that than I do to be to [TS]

01:11:16   be totally fair about it I I've been [TS]

01:11:20   using BBEdit since there was a PB in it [TS]

01:11:22   and at least since I had a Mac that [TS]

01:11:24   could run it which isn't that I guess [TS]

01:11:26   probably late 80s right didn't come out [TS]

01:11:30   like 88 91 91 92 I think was the first [TS]

01:11:33   part okay well I can't reform it'd to [TS]

01:11:37   late 80s to the early 90s as a blur of [TS]

01:11:39   strange music and Nagle prints so [TS]

01:11:43   whenever whenever there was a BB I that [TS]

01:11:45   I was using it and you know for me that [TS]

01:11:48   would that was home the nine point font [TS]

01:11:50   everything and then when I started doing [TS]

01:11:53   rails all the cool kids used text main I [TS]

01:11:54   said well let me see what this is you [TS]

01:11:56   know this is all about and had some neat [TS]

01:11:58   features that were great for rails [TS]

01:11:59   development and I told you what the the [TS]

01:12:02   big killer feature was for me so you [TS]

01:12:04   know but I but I did go back to VB edit [TS]

01:12:06   and when I said go back I mean I never [TS]

01:12:08   left it I never stopped using BBEdit I [TS]

01:12:11   just didn't do rails in BBEdit I did [TS]

01:12:14   everything else in BBEdit just not rails [TS]

01:12:16   and they eventually went back for rails [TS]

01:12:19   when it had the couple killer features [TS]

01:12:20   that I needed now Merlin is D he's [TS]

01:12:22   deeply entrenched in an almost a [TS]

01:12:24   disturbing way in into textmate and for [TS]

01:12:30   him I would think yeah it would be real [TS]

01:12:31   hard to switch away from it but i-i've [TS]

01:12:32   for me I didn't even take my preferences [TS]

01:12:35   along with me start fresh see Merlin [TS]

01:12:38   could get out like he's not in too deep [TS]

01:12:40   but Emacs users Emacs similar to D you [TS]

01:12:42   can't you can't get them out because [TS]

01:12:44   they they have literally just built they [TS]

01:12:48   have built a world for them it's like [TS]

01:12:49   minecraft in their minecraft for text [TS]

01:12:51   editing they have built a world for [TS]

01:12:53   themselves inside Emacs and there's no [TS]

01:12:55   way in hell any text editor that's not [TS]

01:12:57   programmable would be able to do what [TS]

01:12:58   they do with d-max [TS]

01:13:00   including VI and all those other ones [TS]

01:13:02   and even if they were programmable that [TS]

01:13:04   would mean that these people would have [TS]

01:13:05   to essentially port in their environment [TS]

01:13:07   with all this stuff that they'd you know [TS]

01:13:08   they'd written or third-party stuff to [TS]

01:13:09   this new environment so they're never [TS]

01:13:11   getting out [TS]

01:13:11   just just when I [TS]

01:13:12   I was out they pull me back in I know [TS]

01:13:15   you'd never even you never even think [TS]

01:13:16   you're out of you max you're you're in [TS]

01:13:18   it for life mister not but that's that's [TS]

01:13:19   kind of like the the programmable aspect [TS]

01:13:22   I tried to I'm sure I'm using 0.001 [TS]

01:13:24   percent of BBS features because it has [TS]

01:13:26   so many features in there it's the type [TS]

01:13:28   of application where if you go and ask [TS]

01:13:29   for a feature at this point like I'm [TS]

01:13:31   paranoid about ever asking for feature [TS]

01:13:33   from BB edit because I always want to [TS]

01:13:35   expect to get that reply back I'm like [TS]

01:13:36   that's already there just got to know [TS]

01:13:38   where to find it there's so many [TS]

01:13:38   features they can't all be visible in [TS]

01:13:40   the UI but they're there in there [TS]

01:13:42   somewhere [TS]

01:13:42   so I use a tiny portion of those and the [TS]

01:13:46   portion I use is important to me but I [TS]

01:13:49   still feel like I'm I'm portable like if [TS]

01:13:51   some day BB edit goes away or some new [TS]

01:13:53   great text editor comes out that's [TS]

01:13:55   better I feel like I can make the [TS]

01:13:57   transition because I haven't really [TS]

01:14:00   liked because BB yet it's not [TS]

01:14:01   arbitrarily programmable I haven't dug [TS]

01:14:05   myself in too deep to ever be able to [TS]

01:14:06   get out I could probably port my [TS]

01:14:08   keystrokes and my few things that I do [TS]

01:14:09   to another text editor that happened to [TS]

01:14:11   have the same good diffing good multi [TS]

01:14:13   file search you know good the UI that I [TS]

01:14:16   like and speaking of the UI I don't use [TS]

01:14:18   that folder sidebar project business I [TS]

01:14:21   have single windows with single text [TS]

01:14:23   documents in them and it's very [TS]

01:14:24   important to me that BBEdit has [TS]

01:14:26   maintained the ability to work like that [TS]

01:14:28   right despite adding that sidebar for [TS]

01:14:30   people who like the text you know the [TS]

01:14:31   text mate and stuff like rails and [TS]

01:14:33   thought I can understand where you have [TS]

01:14:34   like a formal directory structure that's [TS]

01:14:36   always the same for every rails [TS]

01:14:37   application and you get used to it even [TS]

01:14:39   there I think maybe I wouldn't use that [TS]

01:14:40   I would rather have like a Finder window [TS]

01:14:42   open and then bounce back and forth but [TS]

01:14:44   you might be impressed by I'm sure I'd [TS]

01:14:46   forgive using BBEdit that way but you [TS]

01:14:49   know but it's it's at this point is [TS]

01:14:51   BBEdit is not religious in that regard [TS]

01:14:53   if you want to configure BBEdit to [TS]

01:14:55   behave in that way you can unless by the [TS]

01:14:57   way another reason why i would never [TS]

01:14:58   leave behind my BB edit preferences [TS]

01:15:00   which are extensive at this point is [TS]

01:15:01   that I use BB edit very differently than [TS]

01:15:03   the defaults when I launch BB edit in [TS]

01:15:05   the default motoring would recognize the [TS]

01:15:06   application like on someone else's [TS]

01:15:08   machine I'm like is this what PPA looks [TS]

01:15:09   like these days so let me ask a question [TS]

01:15:11   let me ask you a question if if I want [TS]

01:15:14   to use BB edit and I know we're over our [TS]

01:15:16   time our time here but if I want to use [TS]

01:15:18   BB at it when I open up you know I open [TS]

01:15:21   up a folder I want to have it show me [TS]

01:15:23   all the contents but if the rest of the [TS]

01:15:25   time [TS]

01:15:25   I want the individual windows is that [TS]

01:15:28   something I can accomplish I think [TS]

01:15:31   that's possible but the thing about [TS]

01:15:32   recent versions of bb-8 is it's like an [TS]

01:15:34   application in transition in terms of [TS]

01:15:36   the people who want to work use it with [TS]

01:15:38   the sidebar and the folders have [TS]

01:15:40   different needs and the people who don't [TS]

01:15:41   and they're constantly trying to balance [TS]

01:15:43   like well what happens if you double [TS]

01:15:47   click this thing in the sidebar but you [TS]

01:15:48   wanted to open in a separate window but [TS]

01:15:49   when you drag in a document onto the [TS]

01:15:51   application you want to open in the [TS]

01:15:53   current project window or in a separate [TS]

01:15:54   they keep going back and forth in the [TS]

01:15:56   decisions and honestly I don't even know [TS]

01:15:57   what the current behavior is all I know [TS]

01:15:59   is that my mode no sidebars ever minimal [TS]

01:16:02   windows just containing text my mode [TS]

01:16:04   continues to work in exactly the way you [TS]

01:16:05   would expect it to work yields and [TS]

01:16:07   that's very simple it's a it's really [TS]

01:16:09   it's great that they continue to support [TS]

01:16:11   that because it really is like you know [TS]

01:16:14   no quit you have no question what's [TS]

01:16:15   going to happen no matter how you open a [TS]

01:16:17   document the open dialog dragging it [TS]

01:16:19   onto the thing anything it's going to [TS]

01:16:20   open its own separate window hmm how [TS]

01:16:22   aggregates open what happens when you [TS]

01:16:24   drag a folder I never drag folders onto [TS]

01:16:26   TV yet so I don't know what happens but [TS]

01:16:27   the old-style way works and is [TS]

01:16:29   consistent the new style way I believe [TS]

01:16:30   has been bouncing around like that [TS]

01:16:32   sidebar used to actually be a drawer [TS]

01:16:33   back in the day when drawers were around [TS]

01:16:36   remember those the bad old days I don't [TS]

01:16:38   want to talk about Drew I even built an [TS]

01:16:39   app with drawers in it but I want to [TS]

01:16:40   talk about it yeah so but now it's a [TS]

01:16:43   sidebar and they've been changing how [TS]

01:16:44   that behaves even for stuff like does [TS]

01:16:47   the sidebar have keyboard focus that's [TS]

01:16:48   another great thing about BBEdit by the [TS]

01:16:49   way so they make these decisions about [TS]

01:16:51   policy of like what should a pond you do [TS]

01:16:54   XY and Z and almost all the time they [TS]

01:16:56   have a plist preference for changing it [TS]

01:16:59   back to the old way and they document [TS]

01:17:01   their pilos preferences in the extensive [TS]

01:17:03   release notes they're even in the [TS]

01:17:04   official documentation almost every [TS]

01:17:06   feature it's it's hard to ever get [TS]

01:17:08   pissed because they change the way [TS]

01:17:09   something works because if you want to [TS]

01:17:10   work the old way this usually you know [TS]

01:17:12   something defaults right bla bla bla you [TS]

01:17:14   can write on your terminal and make it [TS]

01:17:16   work the way you didn't one even for [TS]

01:17:18   insanely esoteric stuff like miniscule [TS]

01:17:21   detail that amazed the stuff they have [TS]

01:17:24   people attacks for because I'll find [TS]

01:17:25   some situation where like the you know [TS]

01:17:28   beat the new version of B via two [TS]

01:17:29   wouldn't let me save a file that was [TS]

01:17:31   currently executing as a perl script if [TS]

01:17:33   the volume is mounted through sshfs [TS]

01:17:36   and they'll say oh yeah just set this p [TS]

01:17:39   thing to disable safe save heuristics [TS]

01:17:44   whatever and it will go back to the old [TS]

01:17:47   way like I didn't ask them for that [TS]

01:17:49   option I even know it existed when I [TS]

01:17:50   said hey I something weird is happening [TS]

01:17:53   they're like yeah we changed something [TS]

01:17:54   but if you want to go back to the old [TS]

01:17:55   way just do that that type of bare-bones [TS]

01:17:59   as a company is great with the creating [TS]

01:18:02   BBEdit updates constantly improving the [TS]

01:18:04   application and constantly taking into [TS]

01:18:06   account user feedback and constantly [TS]

01:18:08   moving forward while also providing to [TS]

01:18:10   the best of their ability every little [TS]

01:18:12   miniscule option you could ever imagine [TS]

01:18:14   even though they're not in the GUI I [TS]

01:18:15   don't really care if they're in the GUI [TS]

01:18:16   as long as I have some ways to set it [TS]

01:18:18   the way I want it I'm happy and they're [TS]

01:18:20   they're great about that you know I'm [TS]

01:18:21   the only tech said it's better in that [TS]

01:18:23   regards probably max because I say do [TS]

01:18:25   whatever the hell you want it's not up [TS]

01:18:27   to us yes we are over time now well I [TS]

01:18:31   think we're all right [TS]

01:18:31   anyway I should wrap it up we should [TS]

01:18:33   read this is a good show good to be back [TS]

01:18:34   though good to have you back with us [TS]

01:18:36   asked to weeks without a show that's why [TS]

01:18:37   all the stuff stored up was it two whole [TS]

01:18:40   weeks [TS]

01:18:41   I don't know it's long seemed like [TS]

01:18:42   longest one week we just missed one show [TS]

01:18:44   I guess huh the last one was episode [TS]

01:18:47   number 28 trust but verify on July 28th [TS]

01:18:50   it's the tenth there would be one show [TS]

01:18:53   yeah because if you say two and then [TS]

01:18:56   people will think that we've been reused [TS]

01:18:57   like and off we haven't been but that is [TS]

01:19:00   it that is it for this episode [TS]

01:19:02   yeah I will be on vacation again at the [TS]

01:19:05   end of August beginning of September but [TS]

01:19:07   we still have two more shows before then [TS]

01:19:09   that's true that is true was it 28 was [TS]

01:19:14   that last one week yeah it was that was [TS]

01:19:18   it [TS]

01:19:20   all right then well that's it for this [TS]

01:19:23   show you can go to 5x5 TV you can see [TS]

01:19:25   the here you can't really see I mean you [TS]

01:19:27   could see them but you can't enjoy them [TS]

01:19:29   unless you listen not by going to find [TS]

01:19:31   by 5 TV also we have some updates we are [TS]

01:19:34   now listed in the iTunes radio section [TS]

01:19:37   of iTunes so if you're lucky enough to [TS]

01:19:40   have iTunes on your Windows PC or on [TS]

01:19:43   your Mac which you will happen on your [TS]

01:19:45   Mac you can go there you can click radio [TS]

01:19:47   and go to news talk and you'll see us [TS]

01:19:49   list it in there so that's a neat way to [TS]

01:19:51   listen live so that's that's neat that's [TS]

01:19:54   big news for us so go there and listen [TS]

01:19:57   that you can follow john on twitter at [TS]

01:19:59   siracusa si RAC us a nosy in siracusa [TS]

01:20:04   I'm Dan Benjamin on Twitter and we want [TS]

01:20:07   to say thanks again to campaign Monica [TS]

01:20:09   calm easy DNS comm we're doing what they [TS]

01:20:12   do [TS]

01:20:12   supporting show and and that's it we [TS]

01:20:16   will be back next week [TS]