Hypercritical

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► the world of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► so perfect that it can't be complained [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► about by the host of this show John [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► siracusa I know him from Ars Technica [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► and elsewhere and by me I'm Dan Benjamin [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► we would like to say thanks very much to [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► fresh books calm and shopify calm for [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► making this show possible and also like [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► to mention that bandwidth for this [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► episode of hypercritical has been [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► provided by Midas green technologies [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► Virtual Private servers submerged in oil [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► seriously check them out and Midas green [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► tech dot-com how are you today Jon big [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► week for you well may or may be not I [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► don't think so [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► you're saying that you're saying it's [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► good next week is the week ah yeah [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► that's what I heard [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► that's delivery and fourth hand rumored [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► but the story I've got is that no Lian [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► this week I thought it was gonna be [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► yesterday obviously it wasn't and what [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► I've heard is that it's not gonna be [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► this week do we have a reason why no [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► this is I'm very far removed from these [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► rumors but by the time they get to me [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► all I get is not this week that's uh you [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► know I'm just gonna be honest I'm [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► disappointed in so am i I hoped it would [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► be yesterday I'm not disappointed in now [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► I'm disappointed in you for not [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► understanding why and warning me oh for [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► not understand so what is the day you're [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► hearing now the nineteenth now I hear I [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► have no date rumored all I know is not [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► this week and I only know that vaguely [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► third hand so I don't know I don't know [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► what they're waiting for but that's [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► that's actually one of our follow-up [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► talk topics so is it [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► yeah well it's vaguely follow-up related [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► I have a whole bunch of all up today and [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► we do have the markdown thing as the [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► main topic but I actually have enough [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► follow-up to push that to another show [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► if we really wanted to Wow so this could [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► be an antenna see this is why I think we [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► should I know you like [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► compartmentalizing things I do I know [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► that you do but my feeling is that if we [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► stopped calling it follow-up and just [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► talked that that is somehow it would be [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► more freeing because if it's like oh [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► well we did 90 minutes of follow-up well [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► then it wasn't really follow [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► was the main table it was just topics [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► just topics that are perhaps recurring [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► topics yeah how about this you call it [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► follow up I'll call it recurring topics [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► and we'll both be happy yeah there is a [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► difference was follow up is supposed to [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► be talking about things that have been [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► discussed on past shows versus things [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► that are just here something interesting [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► in the news or an interesting topic that [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► we've never talked about before I don't [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► know why we have to make the [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► differentiation I mean they don't have [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► to make like I bet I'm willing to bet [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► that you talk to your wife every every [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► single day about the house or the kids [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► or whatever you don't go to her oh honey [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► I have some follow-up for you about da [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► or son no you just didn't have [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► follow-ups but shows have format well [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► for me this is my life for me this is my [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► show okay [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► I like the follow-up all right fine [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► follow him all right [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► which again so the first one is a link [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► that went around maybe one around last [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► week and we just didn't get to her in [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► the show it was a giggle story that was [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► also linked on slash dot and the [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► headline was Facebook trapped in my [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► sequel fate worse than death or MySQL [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► fate worse than death if you want to go [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► that way and the gist of the story was [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► that Facebook had sort of bit off more [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► that it could chew with its number of [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► mice equal instances this is a quote [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► from the thing it says that Facebook has [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► split its my sequel database into four [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► thousand shards and all order to handle [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► the site's massive data volume and is [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► running nine thousand instances of [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► memcache or memcache D in order to keep [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► up with the number of transactions the [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► database must serve now this is all not [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► from Facebook officially but it's from [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► someone named Michael Stonebraker which [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► is a great name stone breaker is [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► apparently one of the one of the guys [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► behind ingress really old relational [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► database system that eventually spawned [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► Postgres and he's gone had done a bunch [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► of other database related projects he's [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► been a professor at the University of [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► California Berkeley I believe and his [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► current business is another database [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► company called vault DB he's the [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► co-founder and CTO of that company so [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► the slash just on this thread was well [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► what a surprise somebody from a [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► competing database [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► says that Facebook is screwed because [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► they use my sequel right and the other [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► gist of this story well get the reason [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► it's in the fall because we talked about [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► how Facebook was what they were doing [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► for scaling and they were the one who [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► was taking taking existing open source [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► off-the-shelf software and bending it to [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► their needs so they use PHP which is off [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► the shelf but they've done all sorts of [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► crazy things with it I've since heard [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► that they are they have stopped [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► supposedly compiling PHP into C++ but I [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► haven't heard what they've replaced it [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► with I don't know if that's true but any [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► write they use PHP apparently they use [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► my sequel I hadn't seen that part of the [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► story denied but they're using it at [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► just a massive scale so I mean a one my [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► sequel database instance is fine [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► splitting it up into ten or twenty [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► shards fine but when you have four [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► thousand shards and you need nine [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► thousand memcache servers to you know so [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► you don't hit the my sequel databases as [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► much that's pretty darn big so so the [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► slash comments were that this guy has a [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► complex of interest obviously because [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► he's from a competing database thing but [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► the most convincing argument I saw [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► against this article was that Facebook [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► works you know we're saying you're using [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► my sequel you're really screwed because [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► when you get to the large scale it's not [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► going to work well who's larger scale [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► than Facebook they have like 700 million [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► users and it may be a horrible ugly hack [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► but the bottom line is they took this [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► thing this crappy database and I'm not a [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► big my sequel fan I like Postgres way [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► better well they took this this crappy [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► open source thing and you know through [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► force of will and engineering and money [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► they made it work for them at the [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► highest scale you could possibly be at I [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► mean who's who's doing something are you [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► going to tell them if you're really big [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► you're in trouble who's bigger than them [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► so it's an interesting case of you know [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► this guy the Stonebraker guy I'm sure he [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► knows what he's doing I'm sure volt DB [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► is great I love Postgres I like it so [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► much better than my sequel his his [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► technical knowledge is completely sound [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► I'm sure in theory he's right [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► but in practice he's got a database [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► product that nobody is using at this [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► scale and my sequel has is used at the [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► biggest scale possible albeit in [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► probably a horrible crappy [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► way that is fragile and right [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► to blow up at any second but that's [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► probably true of all Facebook is that [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► it's just a gigantic pile of crap at [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► this point it's amazing that it stays up [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► but it does you know so you can't you [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► can't tell someone that their choice of [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► Technology is a deal breaker when when [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► they're actually using it and at the [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► scale that you've been warning them [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► about that's fine to bring that star [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► back up I just thought it was kind of [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► funny although I am rooting for volt DB [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► or any other alternatives because [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► relational databases they're great and [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► all but no one has really figured out [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► the magic scaling fairy dust I think I [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► don't know if Stonebraker was the author [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► of this paper but is that the cap theory [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► of scaling you ever heard of that see ap [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► maybe you can explain it I don't think [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► I've heard of that one [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► I I don't have it in my notes I have to [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► go over memory so it's it's basically [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► saying what are this who in the chat [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► room can bring this up see is for like [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► consistency [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► P is for network partitioning and maybe [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► one of them is for a is for availability [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► it's basically saying that you can't [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► have all three of those things if you [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► want two of them you have to sacrifice [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► one of them so I wanted nicer than that [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► if you want to be resilient to network [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► partitions like you you lose network [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► connections between the hosts then you [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► can't have one of the other two of them [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► you can't have consistency everywhere or [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► you can have you know 100% availability [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► and so on and so forth so it's all about [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► trading off yet so so people the [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► chatroom is said its availability [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► consistency and partition tolerance [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► partition tolerance so really there [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► should be a T at the end of it but it's [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► harder to say it's just a nice way to [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► think about like it's a nice formalized [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► way to think about what are the [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► trade-offs between [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► having like an Oracle RAC cluster where [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► you have a bunch of machines running a [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► relational database versus something [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► that's like eventually consistent where [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► you may not see the latest data right [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► away but eventually you will and it's [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► distributed and resilient and always [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► available that you you know it's the [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► various trade-offs of how to scale data [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► out and this is a problem that's really [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► not solved which is why there's so much [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► activity that's there you've got a [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► CouchDB MongoDB volt DB there's even a [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► menace and something else to projects [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► for making persistent versions of [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► memcache deep it's like the same [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► interface to it but instead of but when [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► you pull the plug the data doesn't go [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► away it's on disk somewhere a whole [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► bunch of the and the no sequel databases [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► that you know a couple of them I just [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► mentioned plus there's [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► the stuff that Google's got internally [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► and HBase and you know all sorts of [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► things this is not a solve problem so [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► it's it's I wish it was a solved problem [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► relational databases were solve problem [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► and Postgres if you want a relational [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► database Postgres is like the pinnacle [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► of evolution of epics it's free open [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► source you know [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► non-commercial you don't have to pay a [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► million dollars to Oracle for it and [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► it's a great relational database so if [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► you want a relational database there's [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► one for you but relational databases are [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► heavily on the side of consistency and [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► are very far away from you know Network [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► partition tolerance and and availability [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► and on the internet the trade-off seems [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► to be in the other direction where they [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► want it to be available and they wanted [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► to be resilient to network failures but [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► if things are not consistent right away [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► that's okay for like your Facebook page [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► or you know something like that maybe [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► not for banking transactions which is [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► why the banks still use relational [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► databases but this is not a solved [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► problem and it's a very interesting area [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► and I wish someone would solve it [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► because it would be great if my [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► grandkids when they go to start their [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► technology start they say oh and we'll [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► just use this for our data storage and [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► we know that it scales infinitely and we [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► don't have to tweak it and we don't have [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► to worry about I would just Chuck our [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► data into it and as big as we get we'll [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► be fine but that day is not here yet [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► that was another link in the show notes [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► that I'm assuming you put there about [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► the Google+ thing we asked anything yeah [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► there was a Google engineer showed up [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► and said ask me anything and it was [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► specific to the infrastructure behind [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► Google and I thought that that sort of [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► touched on one of the topics that you [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► brought up which was not so much an [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► infrastructure one as a software one as [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► far as Howard Howard how is this working [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► how is it scaling he kind of addressed [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► that yeah I read through it as I skimmed [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► through most of it I read the questions [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► that piqued my interest it's actually [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► more of a follow-up to what you talked [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► about and build and analyze with marco [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► because he was saying yeah he was [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► wondering like how we were generating [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► the source code because he had to parse [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► it on with Instapaper [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► but was obviously machine generated not [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► human generated in that QA they talked a [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► lot about what they used client-side and [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► a little bit of what language they wrote [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► the application in like I said they use [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► Java and they didn't use GWT but they [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► never talked about what exists on the [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► server side they didn't say where what [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► they're using for data storage [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► what their data model is or how their [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► servers are distributed or how they [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► communicate or anything like that in [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► typical Google fashion they will tell [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► you that we use the closure Java [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► compiler which we released as open [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► sourced it's really good great you [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► should try it and they'll tell you if [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► they use GWT and they'll tell you they [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► use Java or if they use their go [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► language they don't use go apparently [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► and this but nothing about what the [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► server side looks like so Google [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► continues to protect its its crown [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► jewels by not talking about them in any [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► particular detail but does talk about [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► the client-side stuff which I guess it [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► wants to spread because it wants web [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► applications to be as good as they can [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► be so it's Google's tools advantage to [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► share the love about writing web [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► applications in terms of the client side [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► but the server side still keeping close [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► to the best so next item here is a show [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► bot show bot Emmy yeah from Jeremy Mac [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► he did a nice post to his blog [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► explaining the origins of show bots and [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► how he the IRC throttling business and [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► how he rewrote it and where it's hosted [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► and so on and so forth so I put that in [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► the show notes people should follow that [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► I wholeheartedly endorse the show bot [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► Emmy website versus the horribly [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► throttled IRC thing yeah [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► well let's oh hold on let's take a step [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► back because right right now this is [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► like super meta and we need to kind of [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► unfold this a little bit so for the [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► people who only listen to this show as a [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► podcast as an audio thing that they [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► download or even for the people who [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► listen live but don't know there is a [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► what we refer to as a chat room and the [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► chat room if you go to five by five dot [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► TV slash live there's a little button a [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► little link there that says chat room or [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► something I should know what it says [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► because I wrote the page but I can't [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► remember and it essentially initiates [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► within your web browser a connection to [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► the 5x5 IRC channel on freenode net so [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► if you happen to be a true geek and you [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► like to use IRC independently not in a [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► web client you can just go to freenode [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► then join the channel the 5x5 channel [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► there we'd love to have you and during [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► the show these people communicate with [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► us and they correct all the mistakes [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► that we make or I make and give us [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► little links and other interesting [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► things and you know it's it's it's sort [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► of the you know [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► chat room it's the chat we love those [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► people the Nerds in there and uh [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► periodically people would come up with [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► the title suggestions and things and [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► comments and other things that would be [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► relevant to the show or people would say [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► hey well when is the show going live or [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► whatever and this this kid who is this [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► kid Jeremy he said you know what I'm [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► going to write this this bot and the bot [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► is going to sit in the channel and [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► listen and it'll answer people's [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► questions it'll collect title [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► suggestions that people make in the [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► charrids great and this is the story [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► this is the story of show bots and the [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► new show botany website it's a beautiful [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► thing and the last show we were [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► complaining about how it was very slow [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► and doling out the titles afterwards [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► because of IRC throttling so that's why [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► that's what's website gets around the [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► website loads immediately you can see [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► all the titles and it's a cute little [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► format with speech bubbles and it [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► divides it up by show so it knows when [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► the shows start and starts collecting [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► titles for that show it's great it's [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► great feature Oh [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► next thing I have is it's about about [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► lion I mean we're both disappointed that [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► line wasn't out yeah I still blame you [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► for that I think they got wind of your [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► of your article coming and they said not [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► so fast John oh but I hate when that [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► happens because now now my article which [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► is done and edited and copy edited it's [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► just sitting there [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► aging and I'm out here knowing first of [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► all I know there's tons of things that I [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► didn't include in the article no matter [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► how long a review is there's always [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► stuff that gets left out sure one of the [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► inevitable comments it's always like [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► this is too long and boring that's [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► obvious comment in the second comment is [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► why didn't you talk about block whatever [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► blah is whatever thing they're [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► interested in is just you cannot talk [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► about everything it's in an operating [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► system released I have to pick the [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► things that are interesting to me and [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► that the worst part is when people [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► describe my reviews as comprehensive [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► they're anything but comprehensive [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► comprehensive implies that they cover [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► everything that there is to cover on the [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► operating system they do not do that [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► they cover what I think are the most [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► important topics and cover them in lots [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► of depth so they're thorough you could [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► say the thorough if you if you think of [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► the thoroughness as how deep is each [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► topic that I talked about explored but [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► they're not comprehensive tons of things [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► are not covered at all not even [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► mentioned and you have a section at the [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► end of all of our reviews called [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► grab-bag where I just throw out random [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► stuff that I found so what I usually do [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► is right up to the point where it's [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► published I'm throwing stuff into that [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► grab bag where it's like oh here's [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► something else I forgot or I go through [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► my notes oh I forgot to mention this [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► this is a neat feature or maybe I should [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► throw that in there this would make a [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► good screenshot just the little things [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► you know and I used to be able to put in [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► tons of those little things so that if [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► like if I saw any other little things [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► out there on the web of people looking [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► at pre releases or whatever I collect [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► them in my notes and put them in there [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► but now I'm holding off on editing [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► because the process those sort of the [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► workflow process at ours where it goes [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► through editing and copy editing and now [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► it's being transformed into other forms [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► think they're doing you know they have [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► the PDF version ebook versions stuff [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► that's also much more formalized and [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► that and the people are still working on [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► that workflow and if I start editing the [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► original at this point I'm screwing them [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► up is they have to start there you know [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► it's not it's not automated a lot of it [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► is done by hand and people are doing it [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► so I'm not free to randomly add stuff to [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► the review but I have things that I [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► could add to it like just you know just [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► little things here or there mostly for [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► the grab bag section and there's a [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► couple of major features that I would [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► have covered if I had more time but it's [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► it's got it's not like a print deadline [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► but it's kind of like that and that [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► you're once you enter the machinery of [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► the publishing process you're not free [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► to edit not free dude keep writing it [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► stop writing at some point you have to [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► some point yet the ship so I've picked [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► that point basically and yesterday I [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► think it made my last edit to the the [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► article which is just some a few wording [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► changes here and there [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► after the copy editing was done and so [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► that's it this is what it's going to be [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► so inevitably when the review comes out [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► people are going to say why don't you [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► talk about this or I read this elsewhere [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► and this review is supposed to be [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► comprehensive why didn't use it doesn't [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► have everything no no one review has [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► anything a Mac os10 is just too big for [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► that what I hope I did is I covered the [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► these parts that I thought were most [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► significant about Lion and a few of the [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► more esoteric technical parts that I [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► found interesting and that's all I can [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► hope to do so if people are disappointed [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► because I didn't cover your favorite [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► feature or didn't complain about the [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► thing that annoys you and I guess we'll [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► talk about this more when the review is [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► published but the reason it comes up on [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► this follow-up topic is that part of the [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► one of the reasons that I think perhaps [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► that line could be delayed because at [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► this point I don't think they're going [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► to have another GMC [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► because they announce to developers like [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► hey do you want your stuff to be on on [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► the Mac App Store build it with our [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► current GM see the lion and submit it to [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► us so they're basically asking for [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► developers to use the GMC they have to [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► build their Mac applications and send [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► them to Apple for submission to the Mac [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► App Store and I have a hard time [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► believing Apple would say oh yeah feel [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► free to build your applications on a [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► pre-release version of the operating [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► system and we'll put them in the nack [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► App Store so it seems like this GM seed [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► is going to be the actual GM right now [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► but what you had said is that for those [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► of us who have and I have not but for [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► those of us who have installed this we [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► are not going to be able to update so [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► that when the first dot release or point [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► update or whatever drops you're saying [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► we won't be able to use software update [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► to update the GM oh what I said was that [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► you can't update to the gene you can't [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► up you software update on any release [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► that is not the final retail release bit [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► for bit really yeah now if they declare [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► that this GM seed is the actual GM and [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► they release it to the Mac App Store [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► without changing a single bit on it well [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► then yeah you could you can but isn't [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► that what you're saying that's what [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► you're saying [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► no because they could they could do [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► something like for example in the past [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► they've when they've declared an RC to [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► be the release it's not bit for bit the [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► same like the very least they'll change [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► the software version plist which is [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► buried down there just to change it to [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► be you know ten point x point zero or [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► whatever now historically they are in [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► this most recent release they don't need [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► to do that because I believe systems [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► softs system version that plist does [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► have ten seven zero in it but the bottom [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► line is you don't know until you see [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► something on the Mac App Store is every [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► single bit of this identical to the one [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► we have is the build number the same or [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► all the the strings is saying the [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► license agreement everything you know is [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► it exactly the same software or did they [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► do another sort of release build where [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► they didn't recompile the software but [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► they just change the metadata and the [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► packaging and then distributed that so [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► that's why I say wait one was if there's [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► going to be another GM seed obviously [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► you're screwed and the other is even if [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► there's not another GM see that they [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► changed something small about it it [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► could be the software up they've all [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► refused updated so because of the [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► uncertainty I recommend it against doing [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► that and just assuming that you'll be [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► fine you can't assume that you'll be [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► fine you might be but you might not so [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► that's why I said don't upgrade but I [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► was thinking what so if that's the case [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► if this is if they're not going to have [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► another GMC but what's the delay other [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► than to make it so we can't talk about [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► Lian for another week show is that there [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► are new Hardware rumors right the [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► hardware there's and there's a handful [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► Hardware rumors not just that not just a [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► couple first they came out with new I [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► mean everybody's been talking about [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► MacBook Airs being refreshed with the [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► the Sandy Bridge and the Thunderbolt so [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► that's that's been out there in the wild [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► for a little while but then another [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► rumor came well they're also getting [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► lighted backlit keyboards and then we [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► got a whole bunch of new serial numbers [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► that they were saying oh these are for [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► the new Mac Pros but it turns out [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► they're there apparently not for Mac [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► Pros they're for new the the white [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► plastic Mac books and Mac minis and [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► they're saying that the Mac Pros [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► themselves will be updated in a few [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► weeks - so you think that's what the [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► holdup is if the GM they feel really [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► good about it they're ready to go with [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► it what could be the holdup the holdup [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► is a hardware why not release the [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► hardware our first sponsor today whom we [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► would like to greatly thank for making [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► this show possible as FreshBooks comm if [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► you run your own business and rely on [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► invoicing to get paid then you need to [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► check out fresh books fresh books lets [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► you focus on your actual work not [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► paperwork it's just the fastest way to [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► track time organized expenses and [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► invoice your clients I use and I love it [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► are you still retyping client addresses [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► on invoices in word or manually [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► calculating invoice totals in Excel you [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► can just put all that stuff behind you [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► when you think of accounting you know [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► you have unorganized spreadsheets in a [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► shoebox of receipts I'm telling you I [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► know exactly what this is like if fresh [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► books changed all of this for me I know [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► will for you and for your business too [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► and here's the cool part getting started [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► is completely free you just go to fresh [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► books calm you sign up for a free [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► account and they're doing something [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► special for five-by-five listeners [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► they're going to give away and they've [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► done this before they're continuing this [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► they're giving away a birthday cake [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► every week to somebody who signs up from [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► this show all you need to do for a [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► chance to win it is where they're asking [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► you how you heard about us you enter in [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► hypercritical and and know it doesn't [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► have to be [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► if they win you can still win a birthday [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► cake check them out at FreshBooks [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► dot-com what you think well finally they [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► do believe that there that there will be [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► some new hardware in our near future [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► like it in a few days I don't know how [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► many days I thought you said and I look [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► air is obvious it needs to be updated [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► you know but but when there's any kind [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► of hardware rumor every hardware rumor [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► gloms onto it's like you said is any [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► machine you can think of you don't think [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► I haven't heard is like new Mac and new [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► iMacs right at least no one has said [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► that because those were just updated [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► with the Thunderbolt and everything uh [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► basically Apple's gonna put I mean we [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► know this Apple is going to put [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► Thunderbolt on all all Macs they're all [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► going to get it they're all going to get [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► it it's a matter of when and what other [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► updates are going to come along as part [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► of that and end for delay reasons you [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► could say well they're gonna want lion [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► to ship on these new machines so even if [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► it did go GM back when this was released [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► on the 1st of July or whatever even if [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► this was the official GM takes a while [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► to get that you know the hardware [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► manufacturing lead time to get that [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► software on the machines to ship them [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► out yet don't get it I've got to tweak [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► whatever installation settings to make [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► it just right and all the defaults for [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► the particular system and then they've [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► got to get a print those that they even [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► ship they do ship with DVDs still a lot [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► of them so to get a press those they've [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► got oh yeah that'll be interesting to [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► see will they come when you buy a [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► machine comes with line will it come [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► with a DVD I'll have to well obviously [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► the air is won't they'll come with that [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► little USB stick but you'd assume they [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► have to but it kind of wouldn't be kind [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► of weird that like you can't buy Lion on [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► a DVD but if you buy a new Mac it comes [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► with one well so here's here's the [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► question that I have and this is this is [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► the one topic that I had on my list that [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► I absolutely wanted to talk to you about [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► and that is this let lets say that I am [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► sure that somewhere on this planet [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► somebody has a small work group of Macs [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► and they are not on a fiber connection [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► to the end I mean I I know it's hard to [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► believe but somewhere out there this [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► exists and that person is saying you [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► know what I would like to update these [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► computers to lion and I can I can't [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► because we don't have the right kind of [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► internet connection that would make this [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► possible or we don't have any internet [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► connection we're a secret lab somewhere [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► no no only one door whatever and how are [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► they going to install this they can't [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► you can't tell me that the Mac App Store [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► is going to be the only way to update [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► this that you won't be able to buy a DVD [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► are you kidding [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► that's what you're saying I know I don't [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► think Apple announced that but I mean [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► that's a bigger Thor is the only way to [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► for you to buy Lion that's not obviously [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► it comes with your new Mac so here's [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► we're getting into a territory of my [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► review but I have a whole page on this [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► but I'm planning to read this review do [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► we do a dramatic reading of your review [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► by the way we'll get to that later all [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► right so yeah so I think I don't know [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► what the physical media situation is [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► going to be but the bottom line is I [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► don't think Apple Apple has to get this [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► thing onto the new machines because they [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► don't want to ship machines now they'd [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► have Snow Leopard on them if they're [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► brand new they have to be coming with [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► line so the most interesting rumor that [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► I saw here also most likely to be false [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► was the rumor about Mac Pro's this is [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► when they thought the back when I [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► thought the serial numbers were for Mac [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► Pros and other things before they [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► discovered the serial numbers weren't I [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► don't know if I even believe either one [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► of those that the serial numbers were [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► for Mac Pro's or that they're now [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► determined not to be it's just that [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► those rumors are extremely sketchy but [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► the discussion of the Mac Pros and [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► whether they need to be updated and what [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► that update might look like is eternally [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► interesting to me especially since I [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► believe the current Mac Pro's external [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► design has been with us for eight years [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► is it eight all right yeah because it's [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► well it started with the g5 yeah our [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► side office eight years but it's some [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► ridiculously long amount of time that [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► that machine has not been refreshed [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► externally inside the inside they've [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► changed a lot obviously used to have [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► PowerPC chips but everything about the [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► inside what where the motherboard is [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► where the RAM is where the drives are [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► how many drives there are almost [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► everything about it has been changed [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► inside but the outside it kind of looks [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► the same so the rumor the almost [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► certainly false rumor from days ago this [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► is from nine to five Mac was that it [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► would have a redesigning closure that's [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► narrower and rack-mountable and 16 core [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► CPUs and Thunderbolt and blah blah blah [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► happy I hadn't heard that around far [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► right recommendable seems like it's such [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► a crazy pipe dream they just killed the [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► XOR why in the world would they produce [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► another rack mountable computer but not [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► outside you know they could say well the [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► XR [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► was an enterprise computer but this is [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► actually just a Mac Pro that's squished [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► well this kind of enters into the and [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► this put this happens every time every [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► time that they're sort of rumors out [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► there lurking if if the rumors aren't [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► answered promptly by whatever the new [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► release is that's initially creating and [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► generating the rumors [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► if there isn't a swift response like the [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► rumors come out and then six days later [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► Apple has the the release then you start [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► getting all these weird now I think it [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► would be great I mean if you're asking [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► me what would I like to have of course [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► I'd love to have a have a Mac Pro that I [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► could slap a you know a slider on each [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► end of it and just rackmount the thing I [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► mean would that be great that'd be [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► perfect of course and yeah this this [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► ancient net you know in computer terms [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► ancient enclosure yeah it's a great [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► enclosure but you know it Apple is [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► really really pushing limits of what you [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► can do with space so why don't we have a [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► smaller enclosure do we need all that [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► space still you know no we don't let's [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► make it smaller let's let's let's be [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► inventive with with the way that we do [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► it I mean look at the Mac Mini something [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► between give us something between a Mac [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► Mini and a Mac Pro with the the [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► expandability or close to it of the [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► current Mac Pro and that you would think [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► that would thing would sell really well [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► and hey by the way put some rails on [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► it'll go right in the rack that's when [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► you start thinking that that's too good [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► to be true [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► that's one of the things I want to talk [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► about the reason why to bring this up [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► not so much that I believe these Mac Pro [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► rumors but that well there's two topics [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► first is the X Mac which which Marco [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► didn't mention I'm build and analyze for [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► people who don't know I put a link to it [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► in the show notes [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► my old ex Mac story the X Mac it's a [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► little X capital M I believe this term [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► originated in the ARS technica forums I [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► tried to research it back when I wrote [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► this article to see if I could find [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► earlier instances of it and I couldn't [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► so I'm going with that I the X Mac was [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► the term for basically for the machine [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► between the iMac and the Mac Pro it's a [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► big gaping hole and apples lineup that's [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► been there forever that you could buy an [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► all-in-one computer with a monitor and [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► everything and it's a cute little iMac [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► and the iMac goes of course changed so [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► much over the years but it's always been [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► an all-in-one thing or you can get a Mac [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► Pro which is a big honking tower with [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► more expandability than almost anyone [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► will ever need [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► it's big and noisy and heavy and super [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► expensive right and there's an obvious [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► huge gap between those two computers and [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► there's nothing there so the ex Mac was [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► the term for the computer would slot in [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► there now since it's so vaguely defined [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► everybody thinks the ex Mac is whatever [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► kind of computer they want so depending [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► on what they want out of the ex Mac they [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► will just map their desires onto it the [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► only thing you need to have is it it can [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► have a built-in monitor right and it [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► can't be as big as the Mac Pro but [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► everything else is all open season so in [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► my old ex Mac article I wrote a story [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► about what I thought of would be a great [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► Mac X Mac not that I thought Apple was [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► going to do it but it was my take on [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► here's what I wanted for for the X Mac [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► my current definition of the X Mac which [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► I think is a reason is what most people [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► the vast majority people mean when they [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► talk about it at least the Nerds the [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► arstechnica nerds and other people is [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► that you know obviously it's not not an [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► iMac and not a Mac Pro what that means [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► is it has user serviceable RAM hard [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► drive and video card like like a Mac Pro [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► it doesn't have an embedded or an [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► integrated video like it has an actual [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► video card not one of those things [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► that's soldered on the motherboard or [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► integrated into the CPU and you can have [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► more than one the hard drive it those [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► three bullet points are probably the [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► only ones you can get everyone agreed to [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► for the X Mac what it boils down to is [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► if for example gamers is a good thing if [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► you want to do games on a Mac you have [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► to buy stupid Mac Pro because the gaming [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► cards in the IMAX have always been so [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► awful they've gotten a lot better over [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► time in fact the current one is actually [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► pretty darn good and it's actually I [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► believe an external card now although [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► it's not user serviceable because that [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► iMac is pretty well sealed up and you [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► don't want to be digging in there but if [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► you want a good if you want the best [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► available video card that you can get on [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► a Mac you have to buy a Mac Pro which is [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► a huge waste because this is this huge [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► volume of space in there and slot so [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► you're not going to use and and hard [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► drive slots and all this stuff and it [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► seems like such a waste of money to buy [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► a huge expensive three thousand alot [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► computer just because you want to play [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► games so it's like give me give me a [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► small computer that has a big fancy [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► gaming video card but otherwise is [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► compact and quiet and maybe holds two [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► hard drives instead of four and maybe [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► doesn't support dual socket CPU is just [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► one CPU is enough for gaming just make [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► it the high clock speed you know it [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► doesn't have to have as many cores Apple [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► does not make that machine and people [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► always want it so anytime there's any [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► kind of rumor [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► Mac Pros and other instance of people [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► saying well Mac Pro is really old and [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► wouldn't be great if there were a little [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► bit smaller because it seems so big and [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► the everyone just everyone will come [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► back to the X Mac they don't know the X [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► Mac name but that hole in the lineup is [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► there and they will converge on it with [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► their rumors and desires and the reasons [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► Apple doesn't make that machine are [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► pretty obvious first first the most [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► important now is probably because most [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► people buy laptops Apple sales have been [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► majority of laptops for a long time and [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► it continues a shift in that direction [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► so Apple's attention paid to the desktop [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► line as always it's always kind of [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► second fiddle to the portables but even [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► beyond that there's not really any [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► upside for Apple and building the X Mac [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► it would necessarily have lower margins [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► than the Mac Pro because the whole point [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► is it wouldn't be as expensive as the [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► Mac Pro it's not supposed to be like the [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► g4 cube where it's small and cute but [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► also super expensive it's supposed to be [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► cheaper otherwise why not just buy a Mac [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► Pro it's also more complex than the iMac [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► so it's kind of one of those don't make [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► me think situations where Apple doesn't [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► want a customer to come into the store [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► and say well I could buy this iMac but [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► people tell me there's this other one [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► where you get the monitor separate and [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► it could be less expensive or more [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► expensive depending on how you configure [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► it and blah blah [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► they don't like that confusion that's [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► not the Apple Wave it's no one goes into [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► the the Apple Store confused where they [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► should get a Mac Pro or an iMac because [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► if you want an AK Pro you know you want [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► a Mac Pro right if you don't want a Mac [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► Pro guess what you get in an iMac or a [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► laptop right so it's like portable or [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► not portable and then once you pick [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► once you pick not portable I don't if [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► you want to call desktop once you big [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► desktop the choice is really easy [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► there's no confusion so why would Apple [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► introduced a new model that adds [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► customer confusion that lowers their [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► margins cannibalizing sales of the Mac [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► Pro most likely more than pulling people [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► up from the iMac it just doesn't make [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► any financial or practical sense for [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► than ever to produce this Mac but [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► computer nerds would love that for there [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► to be one and I would too barring that [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► which I don't think is ever going to [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► happen what I would like to see is a [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► revision to the Mac Pro enclosure for a [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► couple of reasons first is it's just [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► fashion like don't you get bored with [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► the same everyone else gets redesigned [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► the iMac Scott redesigned seven [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► different ways a Sunday even even the [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► laptops which are so limited in how they [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► can look because they have to be [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► portable and you know there's only a [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► limited number of things you can do with [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► laptop those have changed radically over [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► the years in subtle ways and the iMac [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► even more radically but the stupid Mac [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► Pro you know it's time for us to have [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► some fun - I'd so [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► for the Mac Pro to change more slowly [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► than the other models but it should [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► change like I don't want to have this [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► case I don't want to be buying my third [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► computer that looks like a giant cheese [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► grater let's just let's draw the line [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► somewhere but internally there are [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► actual practical issues that can that [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► can be fixed so actually before we get [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► internally externally those handles [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► they're super sharp and they're not [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► particularly comfortable they may look [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► cool but and they're better than no [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► handles but they're not great to pick [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► the thing up from not that I carry [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► around my Mac's a lot people who work in [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► labs or any other place else where you [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► do actually have to lift these things [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► you know that those handles are pretty [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► cruel let me let me ask you a question [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► before you get too into destroying the [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► current enclosure has there ever been a [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► Mac desktop enclosure that we've had for [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► as long as we've had this current one [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► across the board in any model I don't [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► think so the only one I would say is if [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► you wanted to count all of the g4s as [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► one model where they just changed the [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► sort of plastic cladding then maybe you [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► could count that or if you just wanted [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► to count that shape like the g3 through [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► g4 shape the one with a little that they [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► handles at an angle right that external [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► shape lasted for a really long time [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► you're talking about the bits the visual [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► oh you in the Bozell yeah now the whole [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► thing the whole case shaped like if you [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► were just look at it in silhouette from [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► the Yosemite g3 all the way up to [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► whatever the last g4 thing was with [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► mirrored Drive doors whatever that shape [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► stayed with us for a long time - but it [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► at least it changed fashion wise to [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► change color that features changed it's [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► sprouted vents and glory holes and all [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► sorts of slots and shiny things and [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► letters and that changed in much more [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► interesting ways so yeah but I do think [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► the mac pro case has changed at least [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► for the longest amount of time maybe the [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► Xserve ones that maybe the Xserve [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► changed less than that I know they move [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► the vents and change to three hard [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► drives when they went to I believe when [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► they went to Intel so at least that had [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► a break in the content of the X or it [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► did look kind of the same about it but [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► fashion aside and handles aside on the [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► inside I liked when they change from two [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► hard drives to four because that's one [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► of the reasons I buy a Mac Pro is I want [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► to be able to buy cheap hard drive [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► mechanisms without any other stuff [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► attached to them and just stick them [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► into - you chuck it in there it's the [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► cheapest way to get extra storage much [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► less expensive than [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► sometimes at this point the external [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► cases you buy like so you just want a [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► cheap USB case or firewire case or a [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► thunderbolt case someday those cases [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► tend to cost as much or more than the [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► hard drive which kills me and I always [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► like well I'll buy one these cases but [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► I'll be able to reuse it but you can't [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► really because first of all one of my [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► lot of my cases are parallel ata which [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► of course isn't used anymore so those [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► all went by the wayside and the second [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► thing is when you have a case with a [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► hard drive minute you think you're going [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► to reuse the case what are you going to [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► do with the hard drive is in there and [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► it seems like such a waste to just take [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► it out and put in the attic or throw it [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► in the garbage see you know what ends up [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► happening is you don't reuse them as [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► much as you thought you would and [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► eventually they become obsolete it's oh [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► I'd much prefer to have internal space [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► for drives and the current models drives [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► have these drive sled things I don't [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► know if you have you pulled out the [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► drive sleds in your Mac Pro you yeah so [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► it's like a metal it's like a flimsy [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► l-shaped metal thing with four screws on [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► it to the drive attaches to but it's not [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► a great experience like it's well [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► alright they're very hard to get an out [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► right and they there's sort of a point [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► of tension where you have to pull but if [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► you pull too hard the thing will just [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► sort of fly out like a rocket and and [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► also when you're pulling since it's an [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► l-shaped piece of metal if you pull on [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► the bottom of the L shape you're [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► applying vertical pressure you know as a [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► lever you just want to be pulling it out [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► horizontally right you try to pull it [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► horizontally it's no place there's no [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► place to grip it so that you're pulling [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► directly horizontal so the force vector [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► is going entirely horizontally and so [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► there's no other force vectors going up [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► or down [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► Oh physically yeah the only place you [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► have to grab it causes force vectors ago [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► in all sorts of directions in it and it [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► binds up and sometimes it's hard to get [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► them out all right and and it's metal on [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► metal it's it's a piece of anodized [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► aluminum or something sliding into metal [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► slots and that's not a nice experience [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► you know metal sliding it's metal is [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► like it's not fingers on the chalkboard [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► but it's close it's like scrapey and if [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► you remember the B Power Mac g5 you [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► remember what that hard drive thing was [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► like yeah it had what you would do is [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► you would take your hard drive mechanism [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► that you bought from the store and they [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► have these little dome headed screws [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► they're almost rubberized yeah although [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► the screws were on rubberized screws [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► were smooth shiny metal that's right I'm [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► sorry dome heads on them and they had to [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► let fit into a little trough inside [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► right yeah and the trough was plastic so [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► here you had [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► smooth metal on soft plastic when the [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► great thing was that those little screws [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► had little places for them to be like [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► there was four screw holes for them to [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► be stuck inside the case so it would [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► come with one hard drive with the screws [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► already in it but when you got your [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► second hard drive you'd be like where [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► are those dogs where are the screws how [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► do I have to buy them but they were [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► already there yeah yeah they were they [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► were sort of there were four little [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► screw holes up inside that you just had [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► to I guess you just had to know that [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► they were there or if you read your [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► manual perhaps it said yeah and if you [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► want to buy them third party like you [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► made the mistake of taking a drive out [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► and didn't take the screws off those [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► things were really expensive yeah that's [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► the same thing with a drive sled so the [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► other thing with the drive slides is if [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► you want [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► I've been swapping drives a lot with [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► having a lion Drive and I took out my [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► Windows drive for a while and I've been [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► you know that you're just using our [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► wife's computer for that I'm using [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► everything I'm using every piece of [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► hardware in this house including my [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► things so I'm swapping out drives but [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► swapping out drives as a penguin then I [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► sled because you have to unscrew this [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► lead and screwed into the other one [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► you're was afraid you're going to strip [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► those tiny little screws because they're [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► really small Phillips head size zero [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► zero zero or whatever I would like to [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► have an extra sled because I need to sly [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► up the sled and slide the other one in [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► but the sleds again cost half as much as [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► an entire hard drive because they're [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► there I don't know they're rare I don't [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► know why they cost so much drive sleds [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► always cost a bazillion dollars I guess [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► it's a supply and demand thing so I [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► would like to not have drive sleds the [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► g5 situation where you had shiny metal [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► screws smooth metal screws on plastic [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► that was a much more pleasing sliding [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► experience the only problem with the g5 [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► one was that only it only had two drives [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► and to get one of them out you had to [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► take the other one out like you could [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► take one of them in and out [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► independently but if you wanted to take [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► the second one out you also had to take [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► the first one out because it was weird [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► sliding thing so I would like something [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► that like the current Mac Pro's where [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► you've got four or more drives in fact I [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► would say four or five six let me put as [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► many drops as I want there I'll use them [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► all but do not have metal and metal have [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► to be a smooth slide without any bad [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► mechanical you know mechanisms in there [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► that caused them to bind up so there's [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► definitely room for improvement in the [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► user serviceable parts on the Mac Pro [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► and the RAM is a little bit testy too [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► but you ever use the Drobo no I'm not a [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► Drobo family but we talked about that I [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► think we did right I was just wondering [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► if you have ever because they have a [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► kind of an interesting [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► drive insertion mechanism that doesn't [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► require doing anything to the drive you [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► just slide it in and it locks into place [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► and there are people who [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► like in people who don't I was just [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► curious if you had tried yeah I like [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► I've seen it I've seen like videos of [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► people doing it I like the idea you know [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► no weird screws no sleds just slide the [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► drive in and if it works fine and [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► there's not a lot of slop and you don't [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► get like the connector shaking loose or [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► anything then it seems fine let's I've [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► been using Drobo's for years and I've [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► never had a problem with drive insertion [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► or anything in Ottomans it's simple it [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► just works [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► and I do would think that Apple would [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► innovate something like that yeah well [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► you know hard drives are kind of creepy [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► in that there's one of the last pieces [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► of a computer that's not hot swappable I [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► don't know if Siri lays a technically [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► support hot swapping I think it might [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► but certainly the Mac the packet is not [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► so do not remove your hard drive while [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► the computer is on do not put a new one [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► in to mine our drivers on bad things [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► will happen and Thunderbolt obviously [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► fixes this but then you have the whole [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► external case issue and does the case [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► have a fan does the case have a power [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► supply it's not bus powered that gets so [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► much messier I'm a big fan of internal [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► drives I always pack my machines with as [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► many drives as they can fit internally [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► we would also like very much to thank [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► Shopify comm one of our long-term [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► sponsors love these guys [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► Shopify is absolutely the best way to [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► sell anything online I love them now you [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► get your own online store you'll be able [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► to accept credit cards you'll be able to [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► use your own domain you'll be able to [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► customise your stores design they host [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► everything for you you don't have to do [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► anything it's all right there it's just [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► done it's done you can pick from over 50 [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► free and premium themes in their theme [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► store and if you know HTML and CSS [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► forget it design your own it's up to you [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► you'll get your own shopping card to get [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► streamlined checkout and they have a [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► dedicated team of security experts with [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► a really thick rimmed glasses that will [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► handle all of your ecommerce stuff and [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► make it secure for you so you don't have [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► to worry about it I mean they've got [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► everything they've got analytics they'll [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► keep track of your stores progress over [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► time they do all of this you know again [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► you don't have to install anything or do [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► anything it's just right their unique [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► visitors everything now there's a 30-day [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► free trial but if you use the discount [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► code 5x5 you will get your first three [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► months free a shop in minutes of [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► business for life at Shopify com I love [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► them you will to check them [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► so on new hardware and the line delay I [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► don't know what's coming I assume [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► MacBook Airs are coming I assume there [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► will be no Mac Pro thing like like Marco [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► said on his show the Intel roadmap [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► dictates that the CPUs Apple would use [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► for its macros and not yet available but [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► on the other hand as he also said Apple [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► occasionally gets stuff early so there's [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► rumors flying around about that I think [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► he most recently posted something that [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► was his take on this serial number [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► mismatch thing was that oh it looks [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► those are actual Co numbers for the [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► white MacBook of the Mac Mini just goes [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► to show there's not going to be any new [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► Mac pros because the chips aren't ready [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► and that's probably true so and you're [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► in you're going to go on record right [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► okay so today is Wednesday so July 13th [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► you're going on record and saying there [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► will be no this is eating your gut [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► feeling and whatever insider information [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► you have and are downplaying no new Macs [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► this week no line this week that's what [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► I'm saying next week definitive definite [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► absolutely uh stink you've already [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► notional no new line I mean this is just [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► rumors I'm just guessing I'm guessing [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► like everybody else I'm saying no lion [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► this week probably know are we're this [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► week next week [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► I assume lion will will be released and [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► hardware I give 50/50 chance for next [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► week just because new hardware is coming [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► doesn't mean it's coming at the same [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► time as lion or next week you know what [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► I mean like it's obvious as you people [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► have drawn a man another they've they've [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► made that connection and said that the [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► reason that we don't have the airs yet [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► I'll just pick the airs out of the all [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► of the list cuz that's been the longest [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► runner and we know those need to be [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► updated the reason that there's no new [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► errors is because lion wasn't completely [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► ready and it takes them a week or two to [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► go from saying okay this is our GM seed [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► we think it's going to be good too [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► saying it is good to then printing it on [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► to whether it's books or DVDs which they [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► may or may not be selling or even just [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► burning the image down onto the little [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► DVD of the little USB stick rather to [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► ship along with the MacBook Airs and [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► putting them into the boxes and getting [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► them an image done to the hard drives [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► and all the little things they need to [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► do that that could take a week or two [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► but you know what I feel like that [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► kind of going back to the previous this [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► is follow up a follow up but couldn't [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► they have announced the new MacBook Airs [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► and said they ship in a week or they [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► ship in two weeks like the minute that [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► they were a hundred percent sure that [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► the GM was ready to go the minute that [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► they said that GM is good the GM this is [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► the West is our boy this is the one he's [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► ready to go out in the world that at [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► that minute they say all right MacBook [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► Airs [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► coming out yeah Apple sizing we're I [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► wait why wait why not just save shit [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► because tonight it's not like they have [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► a thing about shipping Julie you won't [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► announce analyst at shipping today [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► because they announced stuff is all the [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► time all the time but on the other hand [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► you know Apple does like to have like a [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► medium message I think it's probably [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► dictated by marketing because they do [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► they do want to announce things in a [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► certain order to push a certain message [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► and if marketing has decided that the [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► best way to release these is in this [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► order this and out you know that's the [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► that's the way it's going to go if they [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► say we should release lion and we should [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► release the hardware two days before or [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► we should at least the new hardware two [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► days after actually we should wait for [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► all the line stuff to die down before [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► announcing the new hardware you know I [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► think along when you say marketing [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► that's a euphemism for Steve Jobs no not [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► really because I think he delegates the [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► launch order of most things to the [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► actual marketing department really has a [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► lot of power within Apple and really if [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► you think he dedicates that you when you [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► say delegates that is a euphemism for [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► giving them the specific date and time [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► and order in which to launch sometimes [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► I'm sure he has strong feelings other [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► but the way the way my impression is the [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► way things work inside Apple is not that [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► he dictates everything with just that he [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► if you feel strongly about something he [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► has no problem reaching down the [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► organization and making it so but if he [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► doesn't feel strongly and that's why he [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► hires good people they come to him with [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► something they say we're thinking to do [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► an X and he goes yeah that sounds fine [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► or no it doesn't and I think he says [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► yeah that sounds fine a lot with the [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► marketing people now obviously when it's [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► it's something involving him like the [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► iCloud launch or whatever he's going to [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► say no iCloud it has to be the same time [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► as wcwc is going to be iOS 5 line and [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► iCloud and that's going to be our push [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► you know that was a clear message to [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► that conference that they had those [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► three things so even if iCloud was early [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► ready or iOS five was really ready or [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► anything all those three we're going to [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► coincide it W that we see no matter what [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► but for Hardware stuff like this you've [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► seen with a [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► with the hardware like they'll update [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► the Mac Pros and not even say anything [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► that you press roots maybe if you're [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► lucky same thing with the white Mac [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► books and stuff and then occasionally [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► they'll be like the new heirs will get [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► on the front page and they'll be a press [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► release but it's not that big of a push [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► obviously lion is going to be a big push [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► so I don't know when these things are [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► going to come but I would imagine that [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► marketing has a lot to do with it [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► and if they if they really thought it [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► was super important for line to be out [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► this week like if there was some sort of [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► external pressure they would have just [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► done it and if the hardware wasn't ready [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► they would have announced it if they [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► decided it's best for us to announce [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► hardware and software at the same time [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► they would have just announced it but [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► not this week probably next week and I [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► wouldn't be surprised if you either [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► don't see the hardware or see the [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► hardware before the software because I [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► don't know what the know what the best [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► sequence is for this you know they could [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► like you said they could announce the [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► hardware hey new MacBook Air say they [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► announced that on Monday and then on [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► Wednesday they they announced line and [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► they could announce the MacBook Airs [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► will be shipping with lion but you won't [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► get them in for two weeks or whatever [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► you know well yeah maybe that maybe that [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► just goes back to playing their hand as [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► far as announced pre announcing when [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► lion ships without intending to in other [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► words if they say oh yeah it's available [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► in two weeks well then everybody says oh [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► well that means lines not ready and [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► lines not coming out for two weeks but [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► now we know it comes out in two weeks so [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► that gives you know that plays their [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► hand and all that they do they're going [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► to keep their July promise I'm assuming [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► so I don't know so we'll see you next [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► week oh they'll keep their July promise [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► I think I think we might you know what [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► there's still a couple days left in a [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► week they've they've been known to [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► release things on Thursdays before I [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► would be shocked if it happen I'd hope I [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► just want to see what you look like [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► shocked so Josh the yokomen chatroom [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► mentioned that lion has a different [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► solution for enterprise and education [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► customers for distributing the software [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► what he says is that those customers are [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► allowed to download a line install our [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► app from the App Store and then just [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► download it once and then you can use [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► that installer app to install on all the [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► machines on the site so basically we're [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► in a situation where you if you have [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► today if you have a Mac and the Mac has [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► no operating system on it let's say the [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► hard drive completely failed and the [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► hard drive is gone and you buy a brand [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► new hard drive for [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► and you would like to install lion [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► directly you cannot well you could [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► because if you bought a Mac it you [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► didn't buy a Mac you have this Mac from [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► before did you get it from no you you [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► bought it from a fiery buddy from your [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► mom come with it should have come she [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► lost that she lost the DVD she lost it [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► find that you're gonna the same thing [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► would happen if you bought a Mac pre [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► lion and you lost the DVD and you lost [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► the harddrive you have to boot it from [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► something to get the OS installed you [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► put in the brand-new line DVD boot up [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► format but if you had a lion DVD that's [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► what my point is how do you get how do [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► you get line on there you can't you get [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► a bison you got to go and find a copy or [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► buy a copy of Snow Leopard [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► if you boy yeah I'm assuming the machine [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► will come with something you can boot it [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► from uh Snow Leopard machine what if [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► it's an existing machine no it was an [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► existing machine it came with originally [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► a Snow Leopard but I lost the disc I [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► know but you're in no different [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► situation if you lost that disc weather [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► line exists or not you know I'm saying [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► no I am because if it shipped on if [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► whatever the latest operating system was [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► shipped on DVD I could drive any Apple [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► Store or call up Amazon or whatever I [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► needed to do and get the DVD put it into [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► the Machine and install it you [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► understand what I'm saying what if it [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► what if yeah and there's I you you I [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► know that this is just something you [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► can't fathom but there are a lot of [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► people who are like still wanting to do [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► it this way or might have to do it this [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► way and I'm saying there there has to be [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► a way listen I'm the first person in [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► line to say let's get rid of DVDs I I [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► hate all of that kind of media I I love [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► all of this electronic distribution and [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► for me it's perfect I'm the kind of [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► person who died I never need to see that [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► kind of stuff again get every everything [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► should be streamed everything should be [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► downloadable every everybody should have [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► files power to the people but the [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► reality is there's a lot of people who [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► just don't don't have this in the world [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► I'm talking about the world like you [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► know the continent of Europe I think [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► they're almost there getting Internet [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► soon but I talking about in the [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► individuals or institutions individuals [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► the individual as an institution discuss [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► but anyway you know what I'm saying I'm [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► saying that that an individual person [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► who isn't as in this situation it's not [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► typical but there's still people like [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► that what are the what does that person [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► do they got to go find a copy of [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► snow leopard install that get on to the [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► App Store make the account by Snow [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► Leopard [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► I mean lion wait while that thing [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► downloads install it from Snow Leopard [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► that's that's a headache that's a honey [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► that room some of the chat room says [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► they are on a two hundred megabyte per [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► day satellite internet care you there [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► you that's a typical listener I guess [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► where do you think that person looks UK [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► because they don't have internet over [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► there Ohio there you go so I don't think [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► Apple cares about the people with no net [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► connections that I do I do think there [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► has to be some sort of physical out for [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► these people even if the physical out is [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► to go to an Apple store and set and tell [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► them your plight say you know I've got a [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► computer at home I lost the CD I really [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► want to put lion on it you guys don't [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► sell Snow Leopard anymore I guess you [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► could probably bison all over from [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► Amazon to something but there's no more [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► Snow Leopard DVDs available anyway if I [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► get a new hard drive how do I reinstall [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► the operating system on this thing now [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► like you suggested earlier it could be [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► that new computers will come with the [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► DVD line DVD and Apple will have a bunch [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► of in the back of the room for you [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► assume this person also has no friends [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► by the way because you could someone [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► could burn you a lion DVD for using the [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► Installer pretty easily or imagine they [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► live you know they live in Ohio or [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► somewhere where they're no other they [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► have yeah they have no other geek friend [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► right no access anything but they can [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► drive to an Apple store would the Apple [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► store burn you a DVD or have some in the [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► background for you or would they have [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► like thumb drives that you can buy for a [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► nominal fee or something like that I [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► don't know it seems like it's not as big [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► a problem [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► I think practically speaking it's going [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► to be very difficult to ever be in a [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► situation where you absolutely can't get [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► a physical version like who has no [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► friends who have max you know who also [TS]