22: I Would Not Build Underground


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:02   you're listening to hypercritical [TS]

00:00:03   episode number 22 this is a weekly [TS]

00:00:06   talkshow ruminating on exactly what is [TS]

00:00:08   wrong in the world of Apple related [TS]

00:00:10   technologies and businesses you see [TS]

00:00:12   nothing is so perfect that it can't be [TS]

00:00:15   complained about bhaijaan siracusa I'm [TS]

00:00:19   Dan benjamin we would like to say thanks [TS]

00:00:21   to fresh books calm and felt-tip calm [TS]

00:00:25   makers of sound studio for for making [TS]

00:00:27   this show possible we'll tell you more [TS]

00:00:29   about them as a show goes on hey John [TS]

00:00:32   hey Dan so you're back from WWDC big [TS]

00:00:36   week for you first WWDC finally have [TS]

00:00:39   some clarity to think back on sure [TS]

00:00:41   you've been busy writing your lion [TS]

00:00:43   expose I've been trying to waiting for [TS]

00:00:47   them to change things again they keep [TS]

00:00:49   changing things there was there was an [TS]

00:00:51   update what two days ago or something [TS]

00:00:53   yeah changed a bunch of stuff at this [TS]

00:00:56   point I should just give up taking [TS]

00:00:57   screenshots and just it's not just [TS]

00:01:00   screenshots like adding and removing [TS]

00:01:01   features it's just stuff but yeah I'm [TS]

00:01:05   writing slowly and it's a slog and I [TS]

00:01:08   don't know if I'm gonna make it well you [TS]

00:01:11   and you need it typically you release [TS]

00:01:13   your right up your big write-up your 50 [TS]

00:01:15   to 60 page document tome of wisdom [TS]

00:01:20   you usually release that the same day [TS]

00:01:23   that line actually hits the streets [TS]

00:01:26   right or that do a so general the past [TS]

00:01:29   two or three releases I've had my review [TS]

00:01:31   ready on the day that it releases but [TS]

00:01:35   occasionally ours holds it back for [TS]

00:01:38   traffic reasons so again again I'll say [TS]

00:01:41   what you can't and shame on them well I [TS]

00:01:44   mean that they they have a point with [TS]

00:01:46   the numbers if you really something on a [TS]

00:01:48   Friday or Saturday forget it it just [TS]

00:01:50   dies no matter what it is yeah except [TS]

00:01:52   the show by the way [TS]

00:01:54   well yeah it's you know podcasts are [TS]

00:01:56   different it then then websites as [TS]

00:01:59   people I guess people read it work or [TS]

00:02:01   something I'm trying to figure out why [TS]

00:02:02   it is that the numbers are so skewed but [TS]

00:02:05   they really are skewed like you do not [TS]

00:02:06   want to release something on the eve of [TS]

00:02:08   a weekend because it will not get read [TS]

00:02:10   but if you release on a Monday or [TS]

00:02:11   Tuesday gets read like crazy I guess [TS]

00:02:13   it's people read [TS]

00:02:13   at work because you know once once [TS]

00:02:15   they're not at work they're not sitting [TS]

00:02:16   in front of the computer all day they do [TS]

00:02:17   fun stuff on the weekends they don't [TS]

00:02:19   read but podcasts are some of that fun [TS]

00:02:21   stuff I think so people like to listen [TS]

00:02:23   to podcasts on weekends when I clean the [TS]

00:02:25   house or go for a run or whatever I [TS]

00:02:27   guess I guess I don't I'm like I'm one [TS]

00:02:29   of those people that my although I might [TS]

00:02:32   not be recording on the weekends my [TS]

00:02:33   habits don't change that much I mean you [TS]

00:02:35   know you do more with family but I'll [TS]

00:02:38   still read stuff on the weekend in fact [TS]

00:02:39   the weekend is sometimes that's the only [TS]

00:02:40   chance I get to read stuff yeah well [TS]

00:02:43   we're not average people in that regard [TS]

00:02:45   David have you ever looked at your [TS]

00:02:46   numbers and see any of this well I guess [TS]

00:02:48   it's weird because like iTunes downloads [TS]

00:02:49   them and that and that's the only tick [TS]

00:02:51   that you get on your servers and then [TS]

00:02:53   God knows when people actually listen to [TS]

00:02:54   it so yeah that's that's the thing you [TS]

00:02:56   can see when people download it and [TS]

00:02:58   typically most of the downloads happen [TS]

00:03:00   in the first 12 hours after the show [TS]

00:03:02   comes out although certain shows that [TS]

00:03:04   they can have like a resurgence or [TS]

00:03:07   something but typically most of the [TS]

00:03:09   downloads regardless of the day that [TS]

00:03:11   they happen within first 12 or 24 hours [TS]

00:03:13   and like you said I have no idea when [TS]

00:03:15   people are listening and sometimes it's [TS]

00:03:17   the same day but it seems to follow a [TS]

00:03:19   pattern if we release something like in [TS]

00:03:21   later in the day people are getting it [TS]

00:03:23   they're usually listening to it next day [TS]

00:03:24   because the next day I'll see all these [TS]

00:03:26   tweets about oh you know you and [TS]

00:03:29   siracusa said this but it's a date you [TS]

00:03:30   know they're hearing it the next day [TS]

00:03:31   typically which is okay yeah that's [TS]

00:03:34   alright as long as they're not listening [TS]

00:03:35   to the double-speed yeah I see the delay [TS]

00:03:38   to like after we've done the show and [TS]

00:03:40   I've you know forgotten about it two [TS]

00:03:43   days later it'll be this big flood of [TS]

00:03:44   feedback and tweets and stuff like that [TS]

00:03:46   so people are on the lack like how [TS]

00:03:48   people are still talking about that that [TS]

00:03:49   was a year ago yeah so you're trying to [TS]

00:03:52   break my format here although I really [TS]

00:03:54   don't have any follow up we should have [TS]

00:03:55   done that at the beginning I don't they [TS]

00:03:57   I don't have anything from past shows [TS]

00:03:59   well I guess my main topic today is [TS]

00:04:01   follow up because it's WWDC announcement [TS]

00:04:03   related hmm I do have a small topic to [TS]

00:04:09   complain about before we get to the main [TS]

00:04:10   topic which is really only related to [TS]

00:04:14   complaining and not so much related to [TS]

00:04:16   technology or Apple but since when has [TS]

00:04:18   that ever stopped me so the other day I [TS]

00:04:21   was searching for something on Google [TS]

00:04:24   for use in my review actually and [TS]

00:04:27   was searching for basically an audio [TS]

00:04:32   clip from an episode of The Simpsons [TS]

00:04:33   many of which are stored neatly into my [TS]

00:04:36   brain and can be recalled at a moment's [TS]

00:04:38   notice but I wanted the actual audio you [TS]

00:04:41   know and so other other people besides [TS]

00:04:43   you could hear it yeah and in my [TS]

00:04:46   estimation that's fair use right like if [TS]

00:04:48   you want a two-second clip from The [TS]

00:04:50   Simpsons to use where we want to go oh [TS]

00:04:52   you're using it in an article actually [TS]

00:04:53   yeah I always have sounds linked to [TS]

00:04:56   stuff in an article it amuses me to do [TS]

00:04:58   it and it doesn't bother most other [TS]

00:05:00   people like there's a blue underlined [TS]

00:05:01   word that if you were to click on it [TS]

00:05:02   would play a sound from The Simpsons [TS]

00:05:04   does that add to the article I don't [TS]

00:05:06   know it makes it more enjoyable for me [TS]

00:05:08   to write it certainly so yeah I've [TS]

00:05:10   always had those in my reviews and I [TS]

00:05:13   just thought oh I'd like to get that one [TS]

00:05:14   now we have the internet which seems [TS]

00:05:17   like a great match for the Simpsons [TS]

00:05:18   obsessive nerds computers surely I can [TS]

00:05:21   find the exact quote that I want but [TS]

00:05:24   which if I remember it is probably a [TS]

00:05:26   fairly famous quote and not just some [TS]

00:05:28   random line from an episode and extract [TS]

00:05:30   that a little bit of audio and to find [TS]

00:05:33   the audio usually what you're looking [TS]

00:05:34   for is video but it's hard to find audio [TS]

00:05:36   only so I do a quick Google search [TS]

00:05:38   usually just have to type Simpsons and [TS]

00:05:41   then in quotes whatever the line is [TS]

00:05:43   assuming you remember it exactly and [TS]

00:05:44   then do google video shirt search for it [TS]

00:05:49   now what you'll find if you've ever done [TS]

00:05:51   that is that you get tons and tons of [TS]

00:05:54   hits but no matter how obscure the quote [TS]

00:05:56   is just make up make up anything that [TS]

00:05:58   you can think of from Simpsons ever and [TS]

00:06:00   as long as you quote it remotely [TS]

00:06:01   correctly type Simpsons that phrase hit [TS]

00:06:03   Search click the video you will see a [TS]

00:06:05   big scrolling list of screenshots of the [TS]

00:06:09   episode that it was from and was going [TS]

00:06:11   on for pages and pages and that would [TS]

00:06:14   make you think all that the internet is [TS]

00:06:15   working Google is working I can find [TS]

00:06:17   anything I want any piece of pop-culture [TS]

00:06:18   in a moment's notice you know again it's [TS]

00:06:20   not like I'm looking to pirate The [TS]

00:06:22   Simpsons is using a small excerpt as [TS]

00:06:25   part of some larger paper it's it's the [TS]

00:06:27   the textbook example of fair use but if [TS]

00:06:30   you look closer at those results are [TS]

00:06:32   perhaps click on one of them what you'll [TS]

00:06:33   find is that every single one of them is [TS]

00:06:35   a link to a site and maybe a reputable [TS]

00:06:39   site like say YouTube so YouTube is [TS]

00:06:41   number [TS]

00:06:41   one hit Simpsons episode I recognize [TS]

00:06:43   that scene it's the exact same that I [TS]

00:06:44   wanted because I can see the thumbnail [TS]

00:06:45   Google I click on the YouTube result and [TS]

00:06:47   what you get is a fake video like it's a [TS]

00:06:50   video that has no content other than [TS]

00:06:51   other than a static image of text and [TS]

00:06:53   the text has arrows pointing downwards [TS]

00:06:56   to the description saying click that [TS]

00:06:58   description underneath this video [TS]

00:07:00   totally click it guys click that [TS]

00:07:01   description and in the description is a [TS]

00:07:03   link to some shady Russian or other [TS]

00:07:06   foreign site that you know God knows [TS]

00:07:11   where it is and if you want if you were [TS]

00:07:12   to click on that you will enter the the [TS]

00:07:15   rathole of porn scam viagra ads viruses [TS]

00:07:21   god knows online gambling is yeah you [TS]

00:07:24   will not find your video or if you do [TS]

00:07:26   find it who knows what you've done to [TS]

00:07:28   your computer and so you like alright [TS]

00:07:30   well that willing to the scan let me go [TS]

00:07:31   back to the surgery let's try the next [TS]

00:07:32   one they're all like that dot pol dot [TS]

00:07:34   are you even tons and tons of things on [TS]

00:07:36   YouTube it kills me that they're on [TS]

00:07:37   YouTube can YouTube not tell hey if [TS]

00:07:39   someone uploads a video that's three [TS]

00:07:41   minutes long it all it ever shows is [TS]

00:07:42   some text telling everybody to click the [TS]

00:07:43   thing below the video which takes you to [TS]

00:07:45   a scam porn virus site you remove that [TS]

00:07:49   video and I don't quite know how they do [TS]

00:07:51   it I'm sure there's some that I probably [TS]

00:07:53   have a single frame in exactly the [TS]

00:07:55   center of the video that shows the frame [TS]

00:07:58   from The Simpsons episode but they don't [TS]

00:07:59   get taken down on copyright violations [TS]

00:08:01   because it's not the Simpsons episode [TS]

00:08:02   even though there's one frame at exactly [TS]

00:08:05   50 percent mark or whatever whatever [TS]

00:08:07   YouTube uses for the poster frame right [TS]

00:08:08   so that's why you get thumbnails of all [TS]

00:08:10   the episodes and it's just a wasteland [TS]

00:08:12   of pages upon pages of essentially fake [TS]

00:08:14   versions of Simpsons videos right now if [TS]

00:08:19   I really wanted to get this like if if I [TS]

00:08:21   was determined I would just you know [TS]

00:08:23   fire up the the bit torrents and find [TS]

00:08:25   the actual episode and download and [TS]

00:08:26   extract the piece I want it's not like I [TS]

00:08:28   can't get this stuff but what kills me [TS]

00:08:30   about this is that Fox or whoever owns [TS]

00:08:33   the Simpsons I'm assuming it's Fox they [TS]

00:08:35   have a brand people want to know about [TS]

00:08:37   it but when anybody searches for [TS]

00:08:39   anything related to that brand they get [TS]

00:08:42   tons of scam results wouldn't it serve [TS]

00:08:44   Fox better to put the entire archive of [TS]

00:08:47   The Simpsons up in a way that they are [TS]

00:08:50   the number one search result and that if [TS]

00:08:53   they don't if they don't to lose money [TS]

00:08:54   like DVD sales or Hulu [TS]

00:08:55   they want to make their money on don't [TS]

00:08:56   let people watch the whole episode but [TS]

00:08:58   let people say how I remember this quote [TS]

00:09:00   from this particular episode find that [TS]

00:09:02   episode let them scrub through it and [TS]

00:09:03   let them watch like three seconds before [TS]

00:09:04   you know stops letting them watch and [TS]

00:09:06   says you've exceeded your fair use [TS]

00:09:08   viewing of this or if you want to buy [TS]

00:09:09   the episode click here you know what I [TS]

00:09:11   mean like convert that guy into a [TS]

00:09:12   customer at that point or show ads or do [TS]

00:09:14   something but make you have a property [TS]

00:09:18   that you are abandoning and leaving to [TS]

00:09:20   the scammers and the scammers are all [TS]

00:09:22   over this there may be things like the [TS]

00:09:24   Simpsons that are that are worse but [TS]

00:09:25   this the worst sense is the worsen that [TS]

00:09:26   I've seen is just 100% scam links and [TS]

00:09:29   they totally wipe out any possibility of [TS]

00:09:31   finding the content you want so this is [TS]

00:09:34   just a sickness on the internet that [TS]

00:09:36   it's like people who don't understand [TS]

00:09:38   how the internet works and fear it [TS]

00:09:40   retreat from it leaving their reputation [TS]

00:09:43   and their property to be defined by [TS]

00:09:45   criminal scam artists and other unsavory [TS]

00:09:48   individuals just depressing and this is [TS]

00:09:55   that was part of the follow up somehow [TS]

00:09:56   no it was it was after the follow up but [TS]

00:09:59   before that was a tie that was this [TS]

00:10:01   secondary level topic if you want to [TS]

00:10:03   link it to follow up you could say this [TS]

00:10:04   well it happened when I was writing my [TS]

00:10:06   article on the articles about Mac os10 [TS]

00:10:07   based on things I saw wuc and we talked [TS]

00:10:09   about WC on the last show there you go [TS]

00:10:11   now they're calling it oh they're [TS]

00:10:13   calling it OS 10 now more than Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:10:15   yeah I saw that on the posters of WTC [TS]

00:10:18   but it didn't think too much of it [TS]

00:10:19   because we've seen before Apple sort of [TS]

00:10:23   make a feint in this direction to [TS]

00:10:24   remember when I forget when I was it was [TS]

00:10:26   a couple years ago when they said the [TS]

00:10:30   iPhone runs OS 10 and they would say had [TS]

00:10:35   it in all the slides as OS space and [TS]

00:10:38   then a capital letter X and the Mac runs [TS]

00:10:42   Mac OS 10 and for like four days in the [TS]

00:10:45   media all the Apple press was like well [TS]

00:10:47   okay so this is this is what Apple says [TS]

00:10:49   this is our new distinction this Mac OS [TS]

00:10:51   10 which runs on Macs and there's OS 10 [TS]

00:10:53   which runs on iPhones right but they [TS]

00:10:55   retreated from that really quickly maybe [TS]

00:10:57   it was less than a week and eventually [TS]

00:10:59   the thing that runs on iPhones was named [TS]

00:11:02   iPhone OS and that name stuck with us [TS]

00:11:04   until it was ridiculous because they had [TS]

00:11:06   iPod Touch running it and iPad and [TS]

00:11:09   everything [TS]

00:11:09   then they renamed it to iOS because [TS]

00:11:11   obviously it's not just iPhone OS so [TS]

00:11:13   when I saw the OS 10 posters I'm like is [TS]

00:11:16   that just because it fits better [TS]

00:11:17   typographically are they going to change [TS]

00:11:19   their mind in this again I didn't really [TS]

00:11:20   think anything of it but after WWC when [TS]

00:11:22   they updated their the apple.com website [TS]

00:11:24   if you go to apple.com slash Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:11:26   it now instead of showing Snow Leopard [TS]

00:11:29   it now shows Lion even though long it's [TS]

00:11:31   not out there like here's this upcoming [TS]

00:11:32   OS for you and all over that site its OS [TS]

00:11:35   10 everywhere so I think they're [TS]

00:11:37   sticking to their guns in this case what [TS]

00:11:40   why are they doing this it doesn't [TS]

00:11:42   really make that much sense to me I've [TS]

00:11:45   been trying to think about like what the [TS]

00:11:46   end game is if you are they going to try [TS]

00:11:49   to umbrella brand the software the [TS]

00:11:52   operating system that runs on their [TS]

00:11:54   mobile devices and on Macs and this is [TS]

00:11:57   independent of the thing that everyone [TS]

00:11:59   was are we talking about with like are [TS]

00:12:01   they going to merge the OS is is it can [TS]

00:12:02   be one OS or you know that is Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:12:05   going away and there will only be iOS [TS]

00:12:07   all those technical concerns about what [TS]

00:12:09   happens to the actual lines of code put [TS]

00:12:10   those aside and let's just talk about [TS]

00:12:11   branding because you can brand stuff [TS]

00:12:13   however that you want they can come up [TS]

00:12:14   with one name they could call it you [TS]

00:12:16   know Barney or something and say this is [TS]

00:12:19   the name for our operating system and it [TS]

00:12:20   runs on our devices and on Macs and it [TS]

00:12:22   will be a total lie because the code [TS]

00:12:23   bases are entirely you know not entirely [TS]

00:12:26   separate for you don't I mean they're [TS]

00:12:27   they're entirely different products and [TS]

00:12:29   they share the core OS but they've [TS]

00:12:31   always shared the core rest they can [TS]

00:12:32   just decide one time to brand it in that [TS]

00:12:35   way um that I was thinking about this [TS]

00:12:37   and first I was that I got stuck on [TS]

00:12:39   thinking so what do you call that thing [TS]

00:12:40   what do you call if they wanted to [TS]

00:12:42   umbrella brand their operating system to [TS]

00:12:44   emphasize the fact that unlike some [TS]

00:12:46   other vendors they just have one [TS]

00:12:47   operating system like like Microsoft has [TS]

00:12:48   Windows on the desktop and then they [TS]

00:12:50   have the Windows Phone which are truly [TS]

00:12:51   two distinct operating systems probably [TS]

00:12:53   share much much less than iOS and Mac OS [TS]

00:12:55   10 do so if Apple wanted to stress that [TS]

00:12:57   it has the same core OS you know the [TS]

00:12:59   same underlying layers almost all the [TS]

00:13:01   way to the top between the two OS is [TS]

00:13:02   they would come with a single name over [TS]

00:13:04   that name B OS 10 doesn't make sense [TS]

00:13:07   especially now that they've chosen to [TS]

00:13:08   use that for Lion [TS]

00:13:09   because that is not distinguishing [TS]

00:13:12   enough they're already used iOS which [TS]

00:13:15   would be the obvious umbrella name [TS]

00:13:16   choice because the Apple Apple's naming [TS]

00:13:18   lately seems to be take the obvious word [TS]

00:13:20   for the thing you're thinking of and [TS]

00:13:21   stick I in front of it [TS]

00:13:23   message iPhone I guess FaceTime breaks [TS]

00:13:26   that trend but there's a lot of AI [TS]

00:13:28   obvious word names coming out of Apple [TS]

00:13:31   lately MacBook is like rady that [TS]

00:13:33   released that's not and I but iOS is [TS]

00:13:37   already taken its for the to the mobile [TS]

00:13:39   only they could say well that's going to [TS]

00:13:41   be our new umbrella aim and we're going [TS]

00:13:42   to absorb Mac os10 into that but the [TS]

00:13:45   more I thought about it the more I [TS]

00:13:46   thought that if you umbrella brand these [TS]

00:13:48   things then there'll be an expectation [TS]

00:13:51   that applications for whatever the name [TS]

00:13:55   is will run any place that runs whatever [TS]

00:13:57   the name is and that's easy to make true [TS]

00:14:00   for on Macs because max can run iOS apps [TS]

00:14:02   no problem they're doing the simulator [TS]

00:14:04   all the time Apple could make that [TS]

00:14:05   official anytime it wants no technical [TS]

00:14:06   hurdles the code is pretty much all the [TS]

00:14:08   way done it would work fine but you [TS]

00:14:12   certainly can't run Mac apps on your [TS]

00:14:13   iPhone or your iPad or anything like [TS]

00:14:16   that [TS]

00:14:16   so I the more I think about it the more [TS]

00:14:17   I think I'm Brella branding of the OS [TS]

00:14:19   will never come to pass as long as there [TS]

00:14:23   are what we think of as Mac applications [TS]

00:14:25   that are not designed for touch and I [TS]

00:14:28   don't see that changing anytime soon [TS]

00:14:29   because certainly lion is not saying hey [TS]

00:14:31   all line developers are Mac developers [TS]

00:14:33   make all your apps usable through touch [TS]

00:14:34   no it's not what line is about at all so [TS]

00:14:37   I'm thinking no umbrella branding for a [TS]

00:14:39   while and I really have no idea why they [TS]

00:14:41   took out the 10 the only conspiracy [TS]

00:14:43   theory I can come up or took out the Mac [TS]

00:14:45   the only conspiracy theory I can come up [TS]

00:14:46   with is the old one this is from way [TS]

00:14:48   back of any time I will did anything [TS]

00:14:49   remotely in this direction people would [TS]

00:14:51   say oh my god they're going to let you [TS]

00:14:53   run a Mac OS 10 on non-apple hardware [TS]

00:14:55   and that's why they want to take the Mac [TS]

00:14:56   out because now it's OS 10 and you can [TS]

00:14:58   run on Dells and compacts to that old [TS]

00:15:01   you know again technically possible the [TS]

00:15:03   whole yellow box thing running it on it [TS]

00:15:06   was the old one where you're gonna run [TS]

00:15:08   applications on top of Windows on top of [TS]

00:15:11   the yellow box and then the change was [TS]

00:15:13   let's just let people run Mac OS 10 on [TS]

00:15:14   any hardware they can buy out of the box [TS]

00:15:16   hackintosh stuff I don't think any of [TS]

00:15:18   that's happening well John Gruber our [TS]

00:15:20   friend John Gruber of daring fireball co [TS]

00:15:22   host of another show we do here called [TS]

00:15:24   talk show wrote related to what you were [TS]

00:15:27   saying [TS]

00:15:28   he says I'm pretty sure the only reason [TS]

00:15:29   Mac was ever put into the name of the OS [TS]

00:15:32   was for the ill-considered cloning era [TS]

00:15:35   prior to the [TS]

00:15:36   loans it was just called system seven [TS]

00:15:37   system six they renamed it to Mac OS so [TS]

00:15:40   there'd be some sort of Mac involved on [TS]

00:15:42   machines that themselves could not be [TS]

00:15:44   called Mac's so it's almost like the [TS]

00:15:46   inverse of what you're saying instead of [TS]

00:15:49   this being some kind of implication that [TS]

00:15:50   Apple's going to do that again it's [TS]

00:15:52   going back to that time period and [TS]

00:15:53   saying that was the only reason they put [TS]

00:15:55   the word Mac in there anyway because [TS]

00:15:57   these essentially what we're essentially [TS]

00:15:59   PC vendors selling machines that could [TS]

00:16:02   run the you know previously system seven [TS]

00:16:06   they could have called it system eight [TS]

00:16:07   but instead it was Mac OS yeah I buy [TS]

00:16:10   that although whatever the original [TS]

00:16:12   motivation was it became a branding tool [TS]

00:16:16   you know max run Mac OS it was a way of [TS]

00:16:20   describing the thing that runs on Macs [TS]

00:16:22   if it was just called system when people [TS]

00:16:24   talked about it you know do you have [TS]

00:16:25   system eight system seven system twelve [TS]

00:16:27   whatever there would be no context and [TS]

00:16:29   you wouldn't be reinforcing the [TS]

00:16:30   Macintosh brand that's kind of why I [TS]

00:16:33   like the Mac books you know they're they [TS]

00:16:36   chose to put Mac in front of that they [TS]

00:16:37   ditched power and put Mac in front of it [TS]

00:16:39   you know the same thing with the iBook [TS]

00:16:40   they chose to put Mac in there because [TS]

00:16:42   they wanted to work on the Mac brand and [TS]

00:16:45   maybe that was that gets back to the [TS]

00:16:46   conspiracy theory it's like oh that's a [TS]

00:16:47   piece of hardware you know sir certainly [TS]

00:16:49   they weren't calling it Mac Book to [TS]

00:16:50   differentiate it from other books that [TS]

00:16:51   also run their operating systems because [TS]

00:16:53   that was not happening that they put the [TS]

00:16:56   Mac on the hardware but they don't put [TS]

00:16:57   the Mac on the software does that mean [TS]

00:16:58   the software can run on something other [TS]

00:17:00   than max I don't know it's so hard to [TS]

00:17:01   tell with marketing and branding it's so [TS]

00:17:04   much of it is just taste and whim so I'm [TS]

00:17:07   I wouldn't even know what to read into [TS]

00:17:09   it and I'm just trying not to read [TS]

00:17:10   anything to it what what bothered me the [TS]

00:17:12   most is that now like do I have to go [TS]

00:17:13   back and search and replace in my review [TS]

00:17:16   Mac os10 with OS 10 it just looks weird [TS]

00:17:18   to me looks kind of naked and I'm not [TS]

00:17:19   used to it plus and then I can't do a [TS]

00:17:21   global search in replace because anytime [TS]

00:17:22   I refer to Snow Leopard that was called [TS]

00:17:24   Mac OS 10 so I can't call that OS 10 ten [TS]

00:17:27   point six absolute Mac OS 10 pin point [TS]

00:17:29   six wish I could just make up their mind [TS]

00:17:31   as I'm saying do you remember at what [TS]

00:17:34   point will not interrupt you do you [TS]

00:17:36   remember at what point they stopped [TS]

00:17:42   calling them Macintosh and just really [TS]

00:17:45   called them Mac's I mean was that from [TS]

00:17:47   the very beginning I seem to remember [TS]

00:17:49   always just call him Mac but at what [TS]

00:17:52   point what point were they not really [TS]

00:17:54   pushing that as much at what point did [TS]

00:17:56   they start using it on their product I [TS]

00:17:58   think the beginning of the end of that [TS]

00:18:01   was when the iMac was introduced but for [TS]

00:18:04   a long time it was power Macintosh g3 [TS]

00:18:06   right power Macintosh g4 I believe it [TS]

00:18:09   was also power Macintosh g5 some were a [TS]

00:18:12   little bit after that the word Macintosh [TS]

00:18:15   spelled out the long way that Apple does [TS]

00:18:18   pretty much disappeared and now it's not [TS]

00:18:22   on any of their products anymore [TS]

00:18:23   certainly and it's hard to even find it [TS]

00:18:25   on their website unless you're looking [TS]

00:18:26   at an old product so that faded out [TS]

00:18:28   fairly recently yeah well I'm wondering [TS]

00:18:29   when what was the last machine maybe [TS]

00:18:32   somebody can tell us on Twitter what was [TS]

00:18:36   the bank because I'm milking its [TS]

00:18:37   chairman today what was the very last [TS]

00:18:40   Mac that said Macintosh on it now [TS]

00:18:43   actually on the hardware or on the [TS]

00:18:46   product materials I can find that out [TS]

00:18:48   for you in a couple seconds here so [TS]

00:18:50   because I don't want to I don't in the [TS]

00:18:52   show not knowing this yeah let's see all [TS]

00:18:56   models let's look until the Macintosh [TS]

00:18:58   name disappears all the iPods are all [TS]

00:19:01   mixed in IMAX IMAX so much for two signs [TS]

00:19:08   iBooks yeah Wow [TS]

00:19:10   and there's a sound of somebody else [TS]

00:19:12   searching is not the best way to fill [TS]

00:19:14   time and I think all right well I'll [TS]

00:19:16   look it up and so we do we don't we [TS]

00:19:20   don't need Twitter responses is what [TS]

00:19:22   you're saying yeah although the chat [TS]

00:19:24   room you know that's what the chat room [TS]

00:19:25   is for they should I can't look at this [TS]

00:19:26   I can't look at in two seconds I know [TS]

00:19:27   I'm in it though you're so getting back [TS]

00:19:31   to what uh what Gruber was saying about [TS]

00:19:33   the the time of the clones and [TS]

00:19:36   everything right finally got a chance to [TS]

00:19:37   listen to that thing that went around [TS]

00:19:41   which was showing Steve Jobs closing [TS]

00:19:44   keynote at WWNT 97 yeah did you listen [TS]

00:19:47   to that yeah watch them so that was [TS]

00:19:52   great to watch and it's great to be [TS]

00:19:55   reminded of how different things were [TS]

00:19:56   back then like people were listening to [TS]

00:19:58   it because they wanted to hear let's [TS]

00:20:00   hear how well Steve predicted the future [TS]

00:20:02   like he said [TS]

00:20:03   he was gonna do all these great things [TS]

00:20:04   and people laughed at him to look that [TS]

00:20:05   he did them and there's a lot of that in [TS]

00:20:07   there he outlined a strategy and some [TS]

00:20:09   broad strokes of what Apple should do [TS]

00:20:11   that sounded ridiculous in the context [TS]

00:20:14   of him saying it sounded like who's this [TS]

00:20:15   guy who was this blowhard like yeah sure [TS]

00:20:17   make that happen and he did it he did it [TS]

00:20:19   like beyond even his own expectations [TS]

00:20:21   all right but there are other aspects of [TS]

00:20:23   it that are so unlike the Steve Jobs an [TS]

00:20:25   Apple that we know today in particular I [TS]

00:20:27   was thinking about related to the [TS]

00:20:29   cloning thing his position on a cloning [TS]

00:20:32   like you were if you were to ask any [TS]

00:20:33   modern Apple hater you know I have video [TS]

00:20:37   Steve Jobs 1997 someone asked about [TS]

00:20:39   clones what do you think he said I bet [TS]

00:20:41   he said that you're not allowed to clone [TS]

00:20:42   at all there'll be no clones and it has [TS]

00:20:44   to be closed box and you're going to use [TS]

00:20:46   super special screws you can't even open [TS]

00:20:48   it up and if anything breaks yet to [TS]

00:20:50   throw it in the garbage and buy another [TS]

00:20:51   one that was my PC user impression it [TS]

00:20:54   was great but if you if you look at what [TS]

00:20:57   he actually says what he says it is that [TS]

00:20:59   he thinks the cloners at that point that [TS]

00:21:03   the clone makers were being given [TS]

00:21:04   reference hardware designs from Apple he [TS]

00:21:06   says we shouldn't be giving them [TS]

00:21:08   reference hardware designs let them [TS]

00:21:09   build whatever the heck Hardware they [TS]

00:21:10   want they don't need any help from us we [TS]

00:21:12   will license them the OS at a price that [TS]

00:21:15   we decide is fair and they can build any [TS]

00:21:16   hardware they want you know they don't [TS]

00:21:18   have to copy our where they can make it [TS]

00:21:19   better Hardware cheaper hardware [TS]

00:21:21   whatever you know but some lets him go [TS]

00:21:23   nuts he was not a single Brett the thing [TS]

00:21:25   that he said in that thing that was anti [TS]

00:21:27   cloning if anything he was more sort of [TS]

00:21:29   laissez faire I've just let those guys [TS]

00:21:31   do what they want now he was definitely [TS]

00:21:32   uh down on Apple losing money what his [TS]

00:21:36   big thrust was we're going to charge you [TS]

00:21:38   a lot to lies in the Mac OS and in fact [TS]

00:21:40   if you only make really expensive [TS]

00:21:42   computers we're going to charge you even [TS]

00:21:43   more because if you just make really [TS]

00:21:45   expensive computers as a high margin [TS]

00:21:46   products and you know we have to give [TS]

00:21:49   you some motivation to make low margin [TS]

00:21:50   products you know we're not going to [TS]

00:21:51   just have all the low margin products [TS]

00:21:53   and you take all the big high margin [TS]

00:21:54   product products and we're going to [TS]

00:21:55   structure our licensing to make that [TS]

00:21:57   happen [TS]

00:21:57   so he was definitely looking out for [TS]

00:21:58   number one but he was a hundred percent [TS]

00:22:00   on board with the cloning thing and he [TS]

00:22:02   was also a hundred percent on board with [TS]

00:22:03   Intel it's like if someone wants to make [TS]

00:22:04   an Intel machine and you can run [TS]

00:22:08   Rhapsody on Intel I know it was the [TS]

00:22:09   wrapper to the arrow too so that's [TS]

00:22:11   another that's another strange vestige [TS]

00:22:15   of the past most people don't remember [TS]

00:22:16   that [TS]

00:22:17   the plan was to take next step and port [TS]

00:22:20   it to the Mac pretty much wholesale and [TS]

00:22:23   continue to distribute the yellow box [TS]

00:22:26   for Windows and other ways of running [TS]

00:22:27   your applications on things that weren't [TS]

00:22:29   Max and Steve Jobs was 100% down with [TS]

00:22:32   that he was like yep go for that that'll [TS]

00:22:33   be great didn't happen obviously he made [TS]

00:22:37   mention in in the actual QA he said you [TS]

00:22:41   know some developer asked about holes in [TS]

00:22:45   the product line up that that Steve [TS]

00:22:47   thought developers could fill and he [TS]

00:22:48   said well you know Adobe and Microsoft [TS]

00:22:50   as far as I know haven't signed up to to [TS]

00:22:53   port their applications to Rhapsody so [TS]

00:22:55   what are you guys waiting for you know [TS]

00:22:56   there's no Photoshop on Rhapsody is any [TS]

00:22:59   office huge openings for you to become [TS]

00:23:02   the next office or Photoshop which is [TS]

00:23:04   kind of ridiculous on its face and we [TS]

00:23:06   all know how that actually turned out [TS]

00:23:07   the Wow it turned out was that Adobe [TS]

00:23:10   Microsoft say yeah we're not pouring to [TS]

00:23:12   that and apple says okay we'll change [TS]

00:23:14   our OS strategy so you so will get your [TS]

00:23:16   application so the next year or the year [TS]

00:23:18   after he's on stage saying look he's a [TS]

00:23:19   version of Photoshop running on carbon [TS]

00:23:21   isn't it great so I hope no developers [TS]

00:23:23   took his advice and decided to work on [TS]

00:23:25   the next Photoshop killer only to have [TS]

00:23:27   that entire OS strategy scrapped but but [TS]

00:23:29   at least you can say that the next OS [TS]

00:23:31   strategy was the last in the long [TS]

00:23:33   distinguished line of next-generation [TS]

00:23:35   Apple operating system strategies and by [TS]

00:23:38   the way I've been told on Twitter by [TS]

00:23:40   Dwayne Sibley sabili valve onus is his a [TS]

00:23:48   Twitter moniker he says a power [TS]

00:23:50   Macintosh g5 was the last model to have [TS]

00:23:52   Macintosh in the name as there you go I [TS]

00:23:56   was close but I had that that might be [TS]

00:23:58   in there Proctor what was the lab be I [TS]

00:23:59   don't think does does the does the the [TS]

00:24:03   power Mac or the Mac Pros did they [TS]

00:24:05   actually have anything printed on them [TS]

00:24:07   or the LD where is it print g3 had the [TS]

00:24:10   g3 had power Macintosh somewhere on it [TS]

00:24:12   did the g5 mines in a box [TS]

00:24:15   certainly the Box did I don't think the [TS]

00:24:17   name was printed on the g5 and here [TS]

00:24:20   there was a g5 on it maybe it was there [TS]

00:24:21   g5 know when they went to the aluminum [TS]

00:24:24   chassis though I think I don't think [TS]

00:24:26   there was any of that yeah you tell me [TS]

00:24:29   someone's printed on the aluminum the [TS]

00:24:30   weight is on the [TS]

00:24:31   I have the Apple logo on both sides I [TS]

00:24:33   think that sets the g3 had a G and a [TS]

00:24:35   three underneath the little plexiglass [TS]

00:24:37   did you ever have one of those oh this [TS]

00:24:40   could be a good segue did you ever have [TS]

00:24:42   one of those Windtunnel max the g5 with [TS]

00:24:44   the Windtunnel [TS]

00:24:45   no I yeah 35 the wind tunnels were ready [TS]

00:24:48   for Round four yeah I had one of those I [TS]

00:24:51   had the blue and white g3 which was a [TS]

00:24:53   great love that that's my favorite Mac [TS]

00:24:55   of all time that lasted me a really long [TS]

00:24:57   time and then I skipped the entire g4 [TS]

00:25:00   series which was kind of a blessing [TS]

00:25:01   because that was just a like the first [TS]

00:25:03   g4 us were okay but then they got weird [TS]

00:25:05   and evil and jumped right from the g3 [TS]

00:25:08   the g5 which was a big upgrade and well [TS]

00:25:11   worth it and use that g5 for a long time [TS]

00:25:12   but I gotta say this Mac Pro that I have [TS]

00:25:14   now is the best tower Mac that I've [TS]

00:25:17   owned in terms of just like the things [TS]

00:25:20   that I care about you know expandability [TS]

00:25:23   noise so far reliability fingers-crossed [TS]

00:25:26   ease of getting into and out of it all [TS]

00:25:29   that good stuff it's so much quieter [TS]

00:25:31   than my Power Mac g5 was has so fewer [TS]

00:25:34   many fewer annoying things like that [TS]

00:25:37   chirping power supply and you know video [TS]

00:25:40   card dying and excessive heat and stuff [TS]

00:25:42   like that so I'm really happy with this [TS]

00:25:44   one so happy in fact that I'm wondering [TS]

00:25:46   like what's going to make me buy another [TS]

00:25:47   Mac Pro again we could probably wait [TS]

00:25:49   another year or two years before I get [TS]

00:25:51   it on a Mac Pro well there's actually [TS]

00:25:53   well this could be a segue John into [TS]

00:25:55   into this discussion unless you have [TS]

00:25:57   more follow-up or anything well no [TS]

00:25:59   actually I do have a main topic today if [TS]

00:26:01   I can no we can't go into the topic that [TS]

00:26:03   I wanted to do go ahead you know no no [TS]

00:26:06   hey I usually give you a list of topics [TS]

00:26:08   than you pick so I don't you know no I [TS]

00:26:09   want your topic that's what the people [TS]

00:26:12   want this is your show but what you're [TS]

00:26:13   talking it won't be long with me I know [TS]

00:26:16   what how long do you have to do you have [TS]

00:26:18   a timeline really we got time all right [TS]

00:26:22   well they actually will keep me in [TS]

00:26:23   suspense before we say it we'd like to [TS]

00:26:25   thank FreshBooks [TS]

00:26:26   for sponsoring today's episode you know [TS]

00:26:28   I love doing this stuff I don't love [TS]

00:26:29   invoicing I don't love the accounting [TS]

00:26:32   side of the business and freshbooks [TS]

00:26:33   makes this incredibly easy what they are [TS]

00:26:36   is they're in online invoicing service [TS]

00:26:38   it just they save you time they get you [TS]

00:26:40   paid faster and they make you look like [TS]

00:26:41   a pro it's that simple and getting [TS]

00:26:43   started is totally free [TS]

00:26:45   do any any kind of invoice and they've [TS]

00:26:47   got the workflows down you can do it [TS]

00:26:49   recurring invoices you can create new [TS]

00:26:51   clients on the fly while you're making a [TS]

00:26:53   new invoice all these little things that [TS]

00:26:55   are hard to do in every other system are [TS]

00:26:58   just simple to do here and you should [TS]

00:27:01   really go check it out and here's [TS]

00:27:02   another cool thing that they're going to [TS]

00:27:03   do for 5x5 letters for listeners of [TS]

00:27:05   hypercritical every week they're going [TS]

00:27:07   to give away a birthday cake now I've [TS]

00:27:08   heard from people who have received [TS]

00:27:10   these cakes and they claim that they're [TS]

00:27:12   amazing cakes and you could win one just [TS]

00:27:14   by when you go there and you sign up for [TS]

00:27:16   your free account well it starts free I [TS]

00:27:18   think at some point that went you got to [TS]

00:27:19   pay something but it's free for a while [TS]

00:27:22   when you're signing up there's a place [TS]

00:27:25   where it says how'd you hear about us [TS]

00:27:26   you type in there hypercritical and/or I [TS]

00:27:29   love John siracusa either one of those [TS]

00:27:30   will work and they will pick somebody [TS]

00:27:33   every week and send them a birthday cake [TS]

00:27:36   should go do that at FreshBooks comm ok [TS]

00:27:39   now what now what's your topic you know [TS]

00:27:42   the key part of that promo is that it's [TS]

00:27:44   a birthday cake it's not just a cake [TS]

00:27:46   yeah it is a birthless decorated as if [TS]

00:27:48   it was a for a birthday but it doesn't [TS]

00:27:50   have to be a birthday you don't have to [TS]

00:27:51   have it but that's the that's the key [TS]

00:27:53   part of that promotion you just had the [TS]

00:27:54   cake that's not good you have a birthday [TS]

00:27:56   cake now you've got something you're [TS]

00:27:59   right thank you so this is like [TS]

00:28:03   carryover from WOD Sivas we did a really [TS]

00:28:05   long show about WWDC but still so many [TS]

00:28:09   things in my mind and never mind all the [TS]

00:28:11   stuff that I can't talk about because of [TS]

00:28:12   NDA this this is about iCloud which I [TS]

00:28:17   know I talked about a lot of the other [TS]

00:28:18   thing but that really was the big [TS]

00:28:19   announcement it's still and everything [TS]

00:28:21   about iCloud is still like stewing in my [TS]

00:28:23   mind especially since it's not likely [TS]

00:28:24   released in a day and everyone could go [TS]

00:28:26   download it it's still like here's what [TS]

00:28:28   we're planning on doing and you know [TS]

00:28:30   there's some sort of beta access and [TS]

00:28:31   there are some API is but we don't know [TS]

00:28:33   like in practice what it's like to use [TS]

00:28:35   iCloud even developers don't because the [TS]

00:28:37   developer stuff they have for you is not [TS]

00:28:38   representative what the experience will [TS]

00:28:40   be like [TS]

00:28:40   when the product is introduced so I'm [TS]

00:28:42   still in the mode where I'm thinking [TS]

00:28:44   about I'm trying to handicap Apple's [TS]

00:28:46   odds like yours again we've talked we've [TS]

00:28:48   done past shows about how bad they are [TS]

00:28:50   there's online service stuff and iCloud [TS]

00:28:53   they said most of the right things but [TS]

00:28:56   I'm still dubious about it [TS]

00:28:58   so one thing I was thinking about is the [TS]

00:29:02   nuts and bolts of like I also we've got [TS]

00:29:04   of the show so we talked about how I [TS]

00:29:05   thought Google's biggest advantage was [TS]

00:29:07   their data center operations so I was [TS]

00:29:08   thinking about what do the best online [TS]

00:29:11   companies do on the server side how do [TS]

00:29:15   they operate we're in broad strokes and [TS]

00:29:16   specifically how do they make their [TS]

00:29:18   online services you know make them work [TS]

00:29:21   and so the three ones I picked to to [TS]

00:29:23   talk to talk about our Google Facebook [TS]

00:29:26   and Amazon and I would say if you had to [TS]

00:29:29   pick three of the best online service [TS]

00:29:32   companies those would be right up the [TS]

00:29:33   top of most people's lists no one's [TS]

00:29:34   going to argue you can argue about how [TS]

00:29:36   much you like the companies or their [TS]

00:29:37   products but if you talk about someone [TS]

00:29:38   who has built a business online and has [TS]

00:29:41   been successful at scale that's really [TS]

00:29:43   what I'm talking about it's a scale [TS]

00:29:44   because Google scale Facebook scale [TS]

00:29:46   Amazon scale that's the scale that it [TS]

00:29:48   seems like Apple wants to work on and [TS]

00:29:49   especially if since iCloud is free and [TS]

00:29:51   it's going to be integral part of every [TS]

00:29:52   device it sells I do you know how many [TS]

00:29:54   iPhones are out there tab just like a [TS]

00:29:56   hundred million or something but it's [TS]

00:29:58   big it's a big number and I would bet [TS]

00:30:00   the number of MobileMe subscribers is [TS]

00:30:03   you know 1/100 of the number of people [TS]

00:30:06   with iOS devices so presumably [TS]

00:30:08   eventually all iOS devices that are [TS]

00:30:11   still functioning will be iOS 5 running [TS]

00:30:13   iCloud because it's free I'm assuming [TS]

00:30:15   everyone will opt into it because why [TS]

00:30:16   wouldn't you get all these features [TS]

00:30:17   unless you're super paranoid about [TS]

00:30:19   privacy which believe me people are not [TS]

00:30:20   as evidenced by the popularity of [TS]

00:30:23   Facebook so iCloud is going to have to [TS]

00:30:26   scale at you know much higher than [TS]

00:30:29   anything Apple has ever done with the [TS]

00:30:31   possible exception of the iTunes Store [TS]

00:30:32   but and everyone throws the iTunes Store [TS]

00:30:34   my face when I complained about Apple [TS]

00:30:35   being bad at online but the iTunes Store [TS]

00:30:38   is perhaps the simplest possible online [TS]

00:30:41   service when compared to the things that [TS]

00:30:43   like you know Amazon Google and Facebook [TS]

00:30:44   do it's almost entirely reads where [TS]

00:30:47   you're reading about reading the [TS]

00:30:49   catalogue downloading stuff that doesn't [TS]

00:30:51   change that frequently benefits [TS]

00:30:54   tremendously from caching and [TS]

00:30:55   distribution and the only thing you [TS]

00:30:57   write are the transactions when you you [TS]

00:30:59   know do something that when you purchase [TS]

00:31:00   something so it's the simplest possible [TS]

00:31:02   ecommerce site I don't know it's [TS]

00:31:04   complicated with all the CD ends and how [TS]

00:31:06   they get this the stuff distributed and [TS]

00:31:08   they have the client software I'm not [TS]

00:31:09   saying it's easy but compared to an [TS]

00:31:11   online service that [TS]

00:31:12   significant portion of Rights it's much [TS]

00:31:15   tougher like think about Facebook where [TS]

00:31:16   most people are just browsing Facebook [TS]

00:31:18   but it is the expectation that when you [TS]

00:31:20   post a little comment or something and [TS]

00:31:22   you and you click the button to submit [TS]

00:31:24   it when the page loads again you see [TS]

00:31:25   your comment and not only do you see it [TS]

00:31:26   but other people see it too wouldn't be [TS]

00:31:28   acceptable for you to submit the comment [TS]

00:31:29   and then they bring you back to the page [TS]

00:31:31   and you don't see your comment and then [TS]

00:31:32   you reload and you see it but then you [TS]

00:31:34   reload again and you don't see it but [TS]

00:31:35   then you reload and you know that's the [TS]

00:31:36   type of eventual consistency that you [TS]

00:31:38   can get away with on things like the [TS]

00:31:40   iTunes Store it's like now if not [TS]

00:31:42   everyone sees this new album that I [TS]

00:31:43   added they'll see it in 5-10 minutes [TS]

00:31:45   they'll be fine with a readwrite service [TS]

00:31:47   you need to be responsive to changes [TS]

00:31:49   immediately and there's no margin for [TS]

00:31:52   now you'll see your comment eventually [TS]

00:31:54   like once you give them a message and [TS]

00:31:56   say you can't appear in ten minutes [TS]

00:31:57   you'll be like what the heck when I [TS]

00:31:58   submit my comment I want to see it [TS]

00:32:00   immediately you know the readwrite [TS]

00:32:02   services are much harder especially with [TS]

00:32:03   multiple users and concurrency and [TS]

00:32:05   making updates appear everywhere doing [TS]

00:32:07   minimal updates to two things instead of [TS]

00:32:09   updating you know more than you have to [TS]

00:32:11   so anyway here's how these companies do [TS]

00:32:16   their server-side stuff I'll start with [TS]

00:32:17   Google so the first thing that Google [TS]

00:32:19   has is they do their own hardware which [TS]

00:32:22   sounds crazy but probably won't in in a [TS]

00:32:25   few minutes they do that because one of [TS]

00:32:28   the significant costs is the electricity [TS]

00:32:31   to power the data centers the power the [TS]

00:32:32   cooling and everything like that so they [TS]

00:32:33   can reduce the power consumption of [TS]

00:32:35   their computers and/or the density of [TS]

00:32:36   their computers they have to pay less [TS]

00:32:38   for cooling to pay less for electricity [TS]

00:32:40   and it makes a big dent in the budget [TS]

00:32:41   and they just feel like they can design [TS]

00:32:44   a custom piece of hardware that is [TS]

00:32:46   cheaper and more efficient than they [TS]

00:32:50   could get something off the shelf and [TS]

00:32:52   Google's big thing also with their [TS]

00:32:53   hardware is not only is a custom [TS]

00:32:54   hardware but it's not custom fancy [TS]

00:32:56   hardware it's custom crappy hardware [TS]

00:32:58   they're all their stuff is built with [TS]

00:32:59   the expectation that the hardware will [TS]

00:33:01   fail they use crappy commodity discs [TS]

00:33:03   off-the-shelf you know pieces for the [TS]

00:33:06   CPUs it's not like a really fancy you [TS]

00:33:08   know the Sun boxes they used to be the [TS]

00:33:09   size of refrigerators and they're across [TS]

00:33:11   tens of thousands of dollars and they [TS]

00:33:12   were all purple and to cool lights and [TS]

00:33:14   um and stuff and there was you know a [TS]

00:33:15   custom backplane switching Network [TS]

00:33:17   inside connecting the CPUs and all you [TS]

00:33:20   know that's not what Google is about [TS]

00:33:21   they're about cheap simple commodity [TS]

00:33:24   pieces that they assemble maybe they [TS]

00:33:26   have [TS]

00:33:26   wanted to you know maybe have a custom [TS]

00:33:27   motherboard that they commissioned [TS]

00:33:29   someone else to make or whatever but [TS]

00:33:30   it's not it's not because it's fancies [TS]

00:33:32   because they just want the components [TS]

00:33:33   they want everything else it and if they [TS]

00:33:34   don't need is removed there's no 5.1 [TS]

00:33:36   stereo dolby chip on google's right [TS]

00:33:38   uncool servers but if you buy an [TS]

00:33:40   off-the-rack dale who knows what's on [TS]

00:33:41   that motherboard that you're not going [TS]

00:33:42   to be interested in using right so [TS]

00:33:45   that's their that's the hardware and [TS]

00:33:47   then what they run on top of it is [TS]

00:33:49   basically a suite of almost entirely [TS]

00:33:50   custom software now they run Linux which [TS]

00:33:52   is the basis of all their stuff so [TS]

00:33:54   that's not custom that's that's their [TS]

00:33:55   commodity operating system but on top of [TS]

00:33:57   Linux they run their software that [TS]

00:33:59   creates an infrastructure like Linux is [TS]

00:34:01   practically the firmware for their stuff [TS]

00:34:02   so the big one that everyone's heard of [TS]

00:34:04   probably is MapReduce which is a way of [TS]

00:34:07   well that MapReduce as a concept is a [TS]

00:34:10   way of taking a task and splitting it up [TS]

00:34:12   into pieces that can be done in parallel [TS]

00:34:13   and MapReduce it within Google is a [TS]

00:34:16   framework for doing that across many [TS]

00:34:18   computers so you structure your job as a [TS]

00:34:20   series of steps that you map step in the [TS]

00:34:22   reduce step where you take a bunch of [TS]

00:34:24   data and map it to one thing and then [TS]

00:34:26   coalesce and so on you can follow the [TS]

00:34:27   links in the show notes to see exactly [TS]

00:34:29   what Map Reduce this but the bottom line [TS]

00:34:30   is it's a way of if you can [TS]

00:34:34   quote-unquote rephrase your task in [TS]

00:34:37   terms of MapReduce the MapReduce [TS]

00:34:38   framework will execute your tasks on a [TS]

00:34:40   huge amount of data in a short period of [TS]

00:34:42   time by spreading it over lots of [TS]

00:34:43   computers and it will handle all the [TS]

00:34:44   details for you and when an underlying [TS]

00:34:48   piece of that is GFS good the Google [TS]

00:34:50   file system it's a file system that they [TS]

00:34:52   wrote it's a distributed file system [TS]

00:34:54   where it's tailored for the needs of [TS]

00:34:56   Google where they work with huge huge [TS]

00:34:58   files and so like I think the minimum [TS]

00:35:00   allocation block in GFS is like 64 [TS]

00:35:03   megabytes or something gigantic like [TS]

00:35:04   that like you can if you want to make a [TS]

00:35:05   file with the letter A and it would be [TS]

00:35:06   64 megabytes or you know actually that [TS]

00:35:10   might just be that chunk size and they [TS]

00:35:11   have a small thing with it but the point [TS]

00:35:12   is it's not like a file system on your [TS]

00:35:14   personal computer it's a distributed [TS]

00:35:16   file system made for dealing with huge [TS]

00:35:17   files across many machines there that [TS]

00:35:19   are spread through other data centers [TS]

00:35:21   you know and all around the world and [TS]

00:35:24   that's what they use to get that to get [TS]

00:35:26   and store their data and then on top of [TS]

00:35:28   all that they have BigTable which is [TS]

00:35:30   kind of like you're going to get kind of [TS]

00:35:32   like how you would build a database on [TS]

00:35:36   top of those other technologies where [TS]

00:35:38   it's kind of like a sequel database I [TS]

00:35:39   don't think it actually [TS]

00:35:40   sequel but it's a way to have structured [TS]

00:35:43   data like you instead of just having a [TS]

00:35:46   bunch of files that have data in them [TS]

00:35:48   this is structured dating you can ask [TS]

00:35:50   database type questions like it give me [TS]

00:35:51   the record for this person and it will [TS]

00:35:53   have the person's name and email address [TS]

00:35:55   or whatever that's their database [TS]

00:35:58   solution and none of those things [TS]

00:36:01   incidentally are available for sale and [TS]

00:36:04   none of those things are as far as I [TS]

00:36:06   know open source at this point the [TS]

00:36:08   amount of time and money and you know [TS]

00:36:11   expertise that Google has spent building [TS]

00:36:14   this infrastructure it's basically the [TS]

00:36:15   largest and most important expanded [TS]

00:36:17   technology expenditure the company has [TS]

00:36:19   ever made in terms of what they got out [TS]

00:36:22   of it because they run their business on [TS]

00:36:23   these services and more this probably [TS]

00:36:25   ones that we haven't even heard of that [TS]

00:36:26   there are probably ones that I haven't [TS]

00:36:27   listed and all of them are being revised [TS]

00:36:29   GFS I think is still coming up on [TS]

00:36:31   version 2 BigTable was a successor to [TS]

00:36:34   something else I think and they're [TS]

00:36:35   always trying to go beyond that so [TS]

00:36:37   they're not they didn't just make these [TS]

00:36:38   and then they build their business on [TS]

00:36:39   and forget about they're constantly [TS]

00:36:40   being revaluated revised and improved [TS]

00:36:42   it's kind of a shame they don't share [TS]

00:36:44   them but on the other hand like I said I [TS]

00:36:45   think this is a big competitive [TS]

00:36:47   advantage now Facebook next one another [TS]

00:36:51   gigantic company with probably more [TS]

00:36:54   users than any other online service but [TS]

00:36:56   I think they're up to like I don't wanna [TS]

00:36:57   know what they're up to are they into [TS]

00:36:58   the billions yet gosh I don't think it's [TS]

00:37:01   billions but who knows you know what if [TS]

00:37:02   we say it's not a bill if it's not [TS]

00:37:04   billions then and yeah the show will be [TS]

00:37:06   maybe like five hundred million or [TS]

00:37:07   something like that but it's it it's big [TS]

00:37:09   right really ah and so what they do in [TS]

00:37:12   their data centers is they have custom [TS]

00:37:14   hardware to and and unlike Google [TS]

00:37:17   they've decided to create this Open [TS]

00:37:19   Compute Project which I think we talked [TS]

00:37:20   about in the past where they want to [TS]

00:37:23   share their design for their custom [TS]

00:37:24   hardware in open-source kind of manner [TS]

00:37:27   hoping to take advantage of the fact [TS]

00:37:31   that they're not Google and so we all [TS]

00:37:32   collaborate and work on this open [TS]

00:37:34   computing platform hardware design thing [TS]

00:37:36   maybe we can compete with Google's [TS]

00:37:38   expertise because they kind of got there [TS]

00:37:40   first and they have the most experience [TS]

00:37:41   they probably have the best people but [TS]

00:37:42   we won't have custom hardware to and for [TS]

00:37:44   the same exact reasons as Google data [TS]

00:37:45   centers are a big part of their cost [TS]

00:37:47   they want to be the efficient as [TS]

00:37:48   possible as small as possible but they [TS]

00:37:51   also want to use two cheapest possible [TS]

00:37:52   parts because again they have [TS]

00:37:53   expectation of the harbor is going to [TS]

00:37:55   fail so they're not buying super duper [TS]

00:37:56   fancy computers that are impossible to [TS]

00:37:59   perturb you can yank CPUs out of them [TS]

00:38:01   all that running and they don't blink an [TS]

00:38:02   eye now they're buying cheap commodity [TS]

00:38:03   hardware and building cheap commodity [TS]

00:38:05   hardware that just has the features they [TS]

00:38:06   need and that it uses the minimal amount [TS]

00:38:09   electricity I think Facebook was one [TS]

00:38:11   also was looking into using arm CPUs in [TS]

00:38:13   the day designer instead of Intel simply [TS]

00:38:15   because they use less power everyone's [TS]

00:38:17   always making faints in that direction [TS]

00:38:18   or it could just be to try to get better [TS]

00:38:19   pricing from Intel but I will say and [TS]

00:38:23   then on top of that they mostly use PHP [TS]

00:38:27   to run their site which is sounds the [TS]

00:38:30   same to most people but that's what it [TS]

00:38:32   was originally built on and they just [TS]

00:38:33   scaled up they just kept it they just [TS]

00:38:34   kept it there yeah well they didn't just [TS]

00:38:36   keep it as is they what they did is they [TS]

00:38:39   built a PHP compiler or it takes PHP and [TS]

00:38:42   transforms into C++ and then compiles it [TS]

00:38:44   which is a tremendous boost in speed and [TS]

00:38:47   is sort of the cornerstone of what makes [TS]

00:38:49   Facebook actually work there's some good [TS]

00:38:51   presentations on this in the web I [TS]

00:38:52   should have found something for the show [TS]

00:38:53   notes I'm not sure I'll be able to again [TS]

00:38:54   but one of them was talking about how [TS]

00:38:56   all of Facebook basically ends up being [TS]

00:38:59   one compiled executable like that's [TS]

00:39:02   Facebook that like they take all the the [TS]

00:39:04   reams and reams of PHP code and all that [TS]

00:39:06   stuff and they hate what they get out of [TS]

00:39:07   it is an executable that is Facebook and [TS]

00:39:09   you know it's recompiled and rebuilt [TS]

00:39:11   like every night or whenever they do [TS]

00:39:12   release and stuff but it's strange to [TS]

00:39:14   think of one of the biggest sites if not [TS]

00:39:15   the biggest website of the internet [TS]

00:39:16   being a compiled c++ executable so [TS]

00:39:20   usually you're saying that when people [TS]

00:39:21   want to go and create a you know a [TS]

00:39:23   Facebook page there one of their [TS]

00:39:24   designers engineers whoever sitting [TS]

00:39:26   inside Facebook they want to go and sit [TS]

00:39:28   down and say oh I'm adding a new feature [TS]

00:39:29   they're writing it in PHP and then it [TS]

00:39:32   compiles down to c plus plus or to c or [TS]

00:39:35   whatever from that yeah why not just why [TS]

00:39:39   not just hire seed of programmers [TS]

00:39:41   because that would just take too long to [TS]

00:39:43   write I mean the same reason you want to [TS]

00:39:45   write a high level language they're [TS]

00:39:46   writing in PHP they don't want to worry [TS]

00:39:47   about pointers and allocations and you [TS]

00:39:49   know unicode strings and stuff like that [TS]

00:39:52   THP handles that for them marco should [TS]

00:39:54   be thrilled to hear this [TS]

00:39:56   you know that it's not a secret if you [TS]

00:39:58   google for this will be in the show [TS]

00:39:59   notes but hip hop for PHP it's a source [TS]

00:40:02   code transformer for PHP but it's they [TS]

00:40:04   did they open source that is that out [TS]

00:40:06   there I think [TS]

00:40:07   it is open source yeah it is it's under [TS]

00:40:10   the PHP license now how useful this is [TS]

00:40:13   to anyone else but like this is this is [TS]

00:40:15   was done years ago and it's kind of what [TS]

00:40:16   allows them to scale up like that so so [TS]

00:40:18   they are taking it and you know [TS]

00:40:20   something that period that existed [TS]

00:40:21   before but they've you know moved beyond [TS]

00:40:24   with it they've gone beyond just the [TS]

00:40:25   user PHP now they're doing something [TS]

00:40:26   very different with it they also have [TS]

00:40:28   something called thrift which is a sort [TS]

00:40:31   of framework for making a remote [TS]

00:40:33   procedural crawl interfaces basically [TS]

00:40:36   sending messages from one machine to [TS]

00:40:37   another to do something and it's [TS]

00:40:39   distributed [TS]

00:40:40   type of thing again because of they're [TS]

00:40:42   in data center spread all over the place [TS]

00:40:44   and on top of thrift they built [TS]

00:40:45   something called scribe which we [TS]

00:40:47   actually use at work which is really [TS]

00:40:48   neat it's a distributed logging service [TS]

00:40:50   so that you can have all the machines [TS]

00:40:53   log through scribe and the results of [TS]

00:40:57   that logging are collected and routed [TS]

00:40:59   according to you know series of traffic [TS]

00:41:01   Direction rules eventually landing in a [TS]

00:41:03   few repositories and it's much better [TS]

00:41:06   than having each individual machine log [TS]

00:41:07   locally because then you're worried [TS]

00:41:09   about running out disk space for logs [TS]

00:41:10   and get us Emily rotating the logs or [TS]

00:41:11   you have to have something going from [TS]

00:41:12   each machine and collecting logs and [TS]

00:41:14   then truncating them and it's just a [TS]

00:41:16   pain but if you have network logging [TS]

00:41:18   then what happens with it is a network [TS]

00:41:20   glitch or you know you get disconnected [TS]

00:41:22   or the network partitions at some point [TS]

00:41:24   you lose all those logging things [TS]

00:41:25   subscribe is neat because it will do it [TS]

00:41:27   will do store-and-forward if it can't [TS]

00:41:28   talk to the network service that it [TS]

00:41:29   wants to log to it will start logging [TS]

00:41:31   locally and when the network thing comes [TS]

00:41:33   back up it will take what it's pulled [TS]

00:41:34   locally and shove it back out very neat [TS]

00:41:37   and then you can imagine why that would [TS]

00:41:38   be useful for a company like Facebook [TS]

00:41:40   with tons of servers all over the place [TS]

00:41:41   and that's released as open source as [TS]

00:41:43   well so custom hardware and a bunch of [TS]

00:41:46   custom infrastructure and now finally [TS]

00:41:48   Amazon I tried to Google this and I [TS]

00:41:51   couldn't tell as far as I can tell [TS]

00:41:52   Amazon may be using stock hardware or if [TS]

00:41:55   they're using custom hardware they [TS]

00:41:56   aren't talking about it but Amazon has [TS]

00:42:00   its own set of web services this s3 for [TS]

00:42:03   storage which is a generic content [TS]

00:42:05   addressable storage system [TS]

00:42:08   you know massively distributed a lots of [TS]

00:42:10   other services are built in history [TS]

00:42:11   because they sell it this is this is [TS]

00:42:13   Amazon's thing that Amazon said look we [TS]

00:42:15   have to build these services to have the [TS]

00:42:16   world's biggest e-commerce site to [TS]

00:42:19   recoup the cost of building the services [TS]

00:42:20   why don't we [TS]

00:42:21   resell them because you know we think [TS]

00:42:22   they're great I think that was a great [TS]

00:42:23   plan because when you make something for [TS]

00:42:25   sale as a product you will make it [TS]

00:42:28   better than if it's internal only anyone [TS]

00:42:30   who's ever worked at a company writing [TS]

00:42:31   software knows that the tool is written [TS]

00:42:34   for only for internal use by the company [TS]

00:42:36   are the worst tools ever well you know [TS]

00:42:38   the things you have to sell the [TS]

00:42:39   customers you can't get away with the [TS]

00:42:40   crap you can get away with with an [TS]

00:42:41   internal customer because of a guy down [TS]

00:42:42   you know on the other row complains [TS]

00:42:44   about something you just go over there [TS]

00:42:45   and say oh here's a workaround for you [TS]

00:42:47   or just be quiet I'll get to it when I [TS]

00:42:48   can but the customer complains you know [TS]

00:42:50   you change your software so they made [TS]

00:42:52   all their internal tools available or [TS]

00:42:55   most of the internal tools available as [TS]

00:42:57   external products and I'm sure that made [TS]

00:42:58   those products way way better than they [TS]

00:43:00   would have possibly been so Amazon uses [TS]

00:43:03   s3 internally but s3 is also a service [TS]

00:43:05   that they sell to you and they make [TS]

00:43:06   money out and I'm sure like for example [TS]

00:43:07   Dropbox is based on s3 drop buck doesn't [TS]

00:43:09   do its own storage it uses s3 for [TS]

00:43:11   storage and then Amazon also has ec2 [TS]

00:43:14   which is their Amazon Elastic Compute [TS]

00:43:16   cloud where it's sort of like dynamic [TS]

00:43:19   provisioning of hardware based on your [TS]

00:43:20   needs so you you can design sort of a VM [TS]

00:43:23   or you know a machine image and said [TS]

00:43:26   this is this I need one of these [TS]

00:43:27   machines to run my products and as your [TS]

00:43:29   traffic increases for example you can [TS]

00:43:31   expand out to have okay now you have a [TS]

00:43:33   bunch more servers and when your traffic [TS]

00:43:34   decreases we will take those servers [TS]

00:43:35   away and use the hardware for somebody [TS]

00:43:36   else [TS]

00:43:37   that's what's elastic about it it's [TS]

00:43:38   growing and shrinking I guess here you [TS]

00:43:40   know so that let's Amazon make effective [TS]

00:43:42   use of its hardware and it's the [TS]

00:43:43   customer not pay for hardware they're [TS]

00:43:45   not using in theory and I thought I read [TS]

00:43:49   it again could not find this on Google I [TS]

00:43:51   thought I read that very recently [TS]

00:43:53   amazon.com said that it had just [TS]

00:43:56   decommissioned the last non ec2 server [TS]

00:43:58   running the actual amazon.com website in [TS]

00:44:01   other words amazon.com I know before ec2 [TS]

00:44:03   existed it was running on these custom [TS]

00:44:05   servers and stuff and they made ec2 when [TS]

00:44:07   they've been migrating Amazon icon bit [TS]

00:44:09   by bit to ease too and supposedly [TS]

00:44:10   they're done with that now now [TS]

00:44:12   amazon.com the actual flagship product [TS]

00:44:14   is running on ec2 Amazon's web service [TS]

00:44:17   you know computing things they sell so [TS]

00:44:20   they've done different they've all these [TS]

00:44:22   threes companies taking different paths [TS]

00:44:23   but Amazon has built its infrastructure [TS]

00:44:26   and also decided to sell it Google has [TS]

00:44:28   built its infrastructure and jealously [TS]

00:44:29   guards it and Facebook is kind of in the [TS]

00:44:31   middle where they took stuff that other [TS]

00:44:32   people built to sort of you know [TS]

00:44:33   bend it to their own [TS]

00:44:35   use but they've also built some stuff [TS]

00:44:36   internally and released it as open [TS]

00:44:37   source and two of them are confirmed to [TS]

00:44:40   be using completely custom hardware and [TS]

00:44:42   Amazon we don't know now this little [TS]

00:44:45   tour of online services that that are [TS]

00:44:48   successful at scale is meant to be in [TS]

00:44:51   contrast to what we know of the iCloud [TS]

00:44:53   strategy and the iCloud data centers and [TS]

00:44:55   what we know about the alcohol dynastars [TS]

00:44:56   is very little you know about the [TS]

00:44:57   building in North Carolina which is [TS]

00:44:59   fancy and wonderful and we know about [TS]

00:45:01   their tax breaks and whatever else [TS]

00:45:02   people wanted to report on about I think [TS]

00:45:03   they showed just one picture of it [TS]

00:45:05   during the keynote yeah they should all [TS]

00:45:07   right so in the keynote and other times [TS]

00:45:08   I think even before that they showed PR [TS]

00:45:11   photos obviously professionally taken by [TS]

00:45:13   apples photography people from inside [TS]

00:45:16   the data center saying look at this this [TS]

00:45:19   is miss fancy in future e this is what's [TS]

00:45:20   inside our datacenter isn't it cool [TS]

00:45:21   right here's here's a picture of a whole [TS]

00:45:23   bunch of rack so you can't see what's in [TS]

00:45:25   them or any-any [TS]

00:45:26   right well cool in in the information [TS]

00:45:29   vacuum created by Apple absolutely never [TS]

00:45:31   talking about what they use in their [TS]

00:45:32   data centers unlike all the other [TS]

00:45:34   companies that I listed who have you [TS]

00:45:35   know seminars about what the app my [TS]

00:45:37   business even Google will talk about it [TS]

00:45:39   in vague terms and you know they just [TS]

00:45:41   show these pictures so that's all people [TS]

00:45:43   have to go on and the Apple vans quickly [TS]

00:45:45   latched onto that and said hey looking [TS]

00:45:46   at these pictures can anyone tell me [TS]

00:45:48   what's in all those racks and so a bunch [TS]

00:45:50   of people gave it a shot this one guy [TS]

00:45:51   Steven Foskett did the best job that I [TS]

00:45:53   found he he obviously knows his [TS]

00:45:55   computers obviously if you work with [TS]

00:45:56   these things as part of your job you [TS]

00:45:58   could probably identify the products [TS]

00:45:59   just by what the cases look like because [TS]

00:46:01   they have distinctive looks they have [TS]

00:46:02   you know plastic bezels on the front of [TS]

00:46:04   them and and they're different colors [TS]

00:46:06   and different positions of lights and [TS]

00:46:07   stuff so well he thinks he sees in there [TS]

00:46:10   as he sees I'm going to read these names [TS]

00:46:12   I don't know what half of these things [TS]

00:46:13   are I know the companies but I don't [TS]

00:46:15   know the pic of the products but you can [TS]

00:46:18   follow the link in the show notes and [TS]

00:46:19   then follow the links from his read up [TS]

00:46:21   his right up to the product pages for [TS]

00:46:23   these products to see what they are [TS]

00:46:24   so he says Teradata extreme data [TS]

00:46:26   appliance I'm assuming as a storage [TS]

00:46:28   array a bunch of HP ProLiant servers [TS]

00:46:31   several NetApp devices which I am [TS]

00:46:34   familiar with ISIL ISIL on yeah ISIL on [TS]

00:46:38   storage which was a storage company [TS]

00:46:40   purchased by EMC earlier this year and a [TS]

00:46:43   bunch of actually a bunch of filler [TS]

00:46:44   panels which are filled to fill the gaps [TS]

00:46:46   and improve airflow I think in the Iraq [TS]

00:46:49   someone in this cat room is complaining [TS]

00:46:51   about how I pronounce the word be easiiy [TS]

00:46:53   L writes press the correct pronunciation [TS]

00:46:55   bezel I'm hazel [TS]

00:46:57   Bozell bezel bezel all right not like [TS]

00:47:00   gazelle bezel but I don't I don't [TS]

00:47:03   correct you and people know what you're [TS]

00:47:05   talking about who cares [TS]

00:47:06   correct me because I can't stand when [TS]

00:47:07   people say the first wrong way so yeah [TS]

00:47:09   it's best the word I've never had to say [TS]

00:47:11   before do you believe it not only I've [TS]

00:47:13   seen it in descriptions of computers so [TS]

00:47:17   running right the key point about this [TS]

00:47:18   hardware that's been identified is that [TS]

00:47:20   this person could identify it because [TS]

00:47:21   those are all things that you can buy if [TS]

00:47:23   you have money and you go to net up they [TS]

00:47:25   will show you one of those NetApp things [TS]

00:47:26   if you have money you go to Teradata [TS]

00:47:28   that will sell you that refrigerator [TS]

00:47:29   you're looking saying for your data [TS]

00:47:31   center same thing with all the HP rack [TS]

00:47:34   servers and the Isilon storage these are [TS]

00:47:37   all off the sell off-the-shelf products [TS]

00:47:40   that you can buy so right away [TS]

00:47:42   Apple is in conflict with everybody but [TS]

00:47:48   the possible examples on Amazon and that [TS]

00:47:49   they're not doing custom hardware all [TS]

00:47:51   right now everything else after this is [TS]

00:47:54   hearsay you this might be hearsay to pcs [TS]

00:47:56   just looking at a picture and guessing [TS]

00:47:57   but probably no those are those are [TS]

00:47:59   pictures taken of not even the data [TS]

00:48:01   center that Apple use in their stock [TS]

00:48:02   photos we have no idea where those came [TS]

00:48:04   from but the thing that I hear about [TS]

00:48:07   what Apple is running on this hardware [TS]

00:48:09   is a bunch of off-the-shelf software so [TS]

00:48:14   for example I've heard from several [TS]

00:48:16   different places that Apple is running [TS]

00:48:17   Oracle which is the the bigwig in the [TS]

00:48:20   old school database world but is [TS]

00:48:21   definitely not what the cool kids use [TS]

00:48:24   these days because there's the no sequel [TS]

00:48:26   databases and stuff like that or you [TS]

00:48:27   know things like BigTable the Google [TS]

00:48:29   built themselves if Amazon is running [TS]

00:48:31   Oracle maybe they are because it does [TS]

00:48:33   seem like it's kind of suited to [TS]

00:48:34   e-commerce sites but actually I didn't [TS]

00:48:36   Amazon do Cassandra or something like [TS]

00:48:37   that they have one of those in all SQL [TS]

00:48:38   databases don't they I dunno dynamo [TS]

00:48:42   dynamo Amazon did but any right we're [TS]

00:48:44   not quite sure of there but the big one [TS]

00:48:47   that blew me away and the reason this [TS]

00:48:48   topic came up is that somebody was [TS]

00:48:51   playing with the iCloud betas or maybe [TS]

00:48:54   they were yeah must be maybe they're [TS]

00:48:55   playing with iTunes beta they're playing [TS]

00:48:56   with some some iCloud stuff and looking [TS]

00:48:59   at the network packets going back and [TS]

00:49:00   forth [TS]

00:49:01   linked to this national insisted [TS]

00:49:02   infinite Apple net and what they saw do [TS]

00:49:05   you know the story that I'm talking [TS]

00:49:06   about though I don't because you would [TS]

00:49:08   have brought it up because it's it's a [TS]

00:49:10   it's a kicker so what they saw going [TS]

00:49:12   over the wire indicated to them and it [TS]

00:49:15   seems pretty conclusive for me from [TS]

00:49:17   looking at it that Apple is using a [TS]

00:49:19   Microsoft Azure az ure if I'm not [TS]

00:49:22   pronouncing that right Asher Asher [TS]

00:49:25   lynchin yeah ed do you know what that is [TS]

00:49:28   don't rest it's a Microsoft product but [TS]

00:49:32   it's Microsoft's like it's Microsoft's [TS]

00:49:35   equivalent of I guess Google App Engine [TS]

00:49:38   Google App Engine is a service where you [TS]

00:49:40   write an application designed in a [TS]

00:49:43   particular way and Google runs it for [TS]

00:49:45   you on top of their distributed [TS]

00:49:47   infrastructure well if you were to write [TS]

00:49:49   a Microsoft Azure application you write [TS]

00:49:52   it in a particular way and it will run [TS]

00:49:53   on Microsoft's data centers across their [TS]

00:49:57   distributed sort of architecture right [TS]

00:49:59   now the two things that blow me away [TS]

00:50:01   about this is that a Apple is using a [TS]

00:50:04   Microsoft product in a service which is [TS]

00:50:05   pretty unheard of because all the other [TS]

00:50:07   guys I listed are all running Linux for [TS]

00:50:08   the most part and UNIX has been the king [TS]

00:50:10   of the you know the only person who was [TS]

00:50:12   bucking the UNIX trend for decades has [TS]

00:50:14   been Microsoft with their thing like [TS]

00:50:15   Windows NT and all that stuff you know [TS]

00:50:16   and the serious server people were all [TS]

00:50:19   oh we would never run Windows in the [TS]

00:50:21   datacenter that's crazy talk you know I [TS]

00:50:23   use Windows NT once when it was version [TS]

00:50:25   3.1 and the video card driver crashed my [TS]

00:50:27   machine I'm never using that again right [TS]

00:50:28   so I'm sure I'm sure that Microsoft [TS]

00:50:33   server technology has vastly improved [TS]

00:50:35   since then but it does have the [TS]

00:50:36   reputation of not being like top caliber [TS]

00:50:40   mostly because all the big guys don't [TS]

00:50:42   use it and now they're usually they're [TS]

00:50:44   obvious reasons for big guys not using [TS]

00:50:45   it are competing with Microsoft like [TS]

00:50:47   Google's sure as heck not going to use [TS]

00:50:48   Microsoft software in its days and as if [TS]

00:50:50   we could help it in fact if Google [TS]

00:50:51   doesn't want to use it on the desktop if [TS]

00:50:52   it can help it [TS]

00:50:54   but you know everyone else Amazon [TS]

00:50:56   Facebook they are not Windows Server [TS]

00:50:59   shops Windows Server stuff is more [TS]

00:51:02   expensive than Linux obviously Linux is [TS]

00:51:05   free these companies are in conflict [TS]

00:51:07   with Microsoft in several different ways [TS]

00:51:09   and in general the Microsoft doesn't [TS]

00:51:11   have a good stuff doesn't have a good [TS]

00:51:12   rep so here's Apple which was the sworn [TS]

00:51:14   enemy of Microsoft's [TS]

00:51:15   decades ago choosing to use Microsoft's [TS]

00:51:19   data center infrastructure in its [TS]

00:51:22   flagship product now all this off the [TS]

00:51:28   shelves hardware and off-the-shelf [TS]

00:51:30   software makes me think that this [TS]

00:51:32   deployment if it scales to the level [TS]

00:51:34   that Apple hopes that it will scale like [TS]

00:51:37   if I cloud is as big as it as it seems [TS]

00:51:39   to be and as it could be and is Apple [TS]

00:51:41   hopes it will be this seems to me that [TS]

00:51:44   it will be the largest ever deployment [TS]

00:51:46   of off-the-shelf hardware and software [TS]

00:51:49   our products working together this will [TS]

00:51:51   be like a litmus test for all these [TS]

00:51:54   product like Oracle will say we we can [TS]

00:51:56   run the biggest data centers in the [TS]

00:51:57   world they're gonna say well why doesn't [TS]

00:51:58   Google you you to run their search [TS]

00:52:01   engine room they have custom stuff well [TS]

00:52:02   they could run Google and Oracle right [TS]

00:52:04   you know same thing with EMC and I salon [TS]

00:52:06   you know we can do scalable storage up [TS]

00:52:08   to petabytes and we have no problem and [TS]

00:52:09   no scaling things at all [TS]

00:52:10   and Microsoft Azure we are the data [TS]

00:52:13   center infrastructure for any of your [TS]

00:52:15   applications will be distributed evenly [TS]

00:52:17   will scale beautifully you'll love it I [TS]

00:52:19   guarantee you none of those guys have [TS]

00:52:21   been put into a situation where they're [TS]

00:52:23   expected to have 100 200 300 million [TS]

00:52:26   users because there are very very few [TS]

00:52:28   services that have that kind of level of [TS]

00:52:29   usage there's Google has Amazon this [TS]

00:52:31   Facebook and maybe one or two others [TS]

00:52:32   that I'm forgetting and those guys don't [TS]

00:52:34   use that off-the-shelf software so here [TS]

00:52:36   is Apple completely bucking the trend of [TS]

00:52:38   all other successful online services and [TS]

00:52:40   choosing for reasons that are mysterious [TS]

00:52:43   to me to use it seems based on what [TS]

00:52:46   we're able to intuit from this [TS]

00:52:47   off-the-shelf harbor off-the-shelf [TS]

00:52:50   software as their underlying [TS]

00:52:51   infrastructure now on one respect you [TS]

00:52:54   can say well they're doing that because [TS]

00:52:56   they realize this is not the this is the [TS]

00:53:00   I think I've said this plight raised [TS]

00:53:01   before but I love it it's their [TS]

00:53:03   expertise lies elsewhere as a polite way [TS]

00:53:05   of saying they suck at this they don't [TS]

00:53:07   they don't have the people or the talent [TS]

00:53:10   or the time to create an infrastructure [TS]

00:53:12   to rival the infrastructure that amazon [TS]

00:53:15   has created in its entire history that [TS]

00:53:16   Google is created in the Steyr history [TS]

00:53:18   even the the ability to do what Facebook [TS]

00:53:21   is done and start from humble beginnings [TS]

00:53:22   and just like tack stuff on and build up [TS]

00:53:24   something that can run your incredibly [TS]

00:53:26   big complicated service on top of it [TS]

00:53:28   just your sheer force of [TS]

00:53:29   we'll and I'm sure lots of money uh [TS]

00:53:31   maybe they didn't have time for that [TS]

00:53:33   because mold me you know blew up fairly [TS]

00:53:36   recently or had it's bad had it's bad [TS]

00:53:39   spell fairly recently so they're not [TS]

00:53:40   time to do that so maybe this was their [TS]

00:53:42   only choice can't build themselves you [TS]

00:53:44   can't build it your Apple you got a [TS]

00:53:46   bazillion dollars can't build let's buy [TS]

00:53:48   ah but my question is like who's the guy [TS]

00:53:52   who is responsible for making iCloud [TS]

00:53:55   work and he has to do it by assembling [TS]

00:53:59   hardware and software from other vendors [TS]

00:54:01   and if you ever work with other vendors [TS]

00:54:02   you know that no matter what their sales [TS]

00:54:04   people say you care much more about your [TS]

00:54:07   success than they do especially once [TS]

00:54:09   they get your money you know and and [TS]

00:54:11   your support contracts signed it's a [TS]

00:54:14   struggle it's a struggle with one vendor [TS]

00:54:15   and it I can imagine if you were taking [TS]

00:54:18   several vendors products and stretching [TS]

00:54:20   them beyond the limits that they've ever [TS]

00:54:21   been stretched before trying to get them [TS]

00:54:24   all to work in concert if you have some [TS]

00:54:25   sort of problem you can't figure out [TS]

00:54:27   which vendor to call there's no one you [TS]

00:54:28   can call who's going to figure out your [TS]

00:54:29   problem for you you just have to go [TS]

00:54:31   round-robin around them as they blame [TS]

00:54:33   each other for whatever your problem [TS]

00:54:34   just was so I'm I'm happy to be proven [TS]

00:54:38   wrong by this I would like this stuff to [TS]

00:54:40   all work beautifully I would like Apple [TS]

00:54:42   to have the most talented data center [TS]

00:54:44   engineer it's working to put this [TS]

00:54:45   together I would like all these vendors [TS]

00:54:46   claims about the supposed scalability [TS]

00:54:48   reliability of their products to be 100% [TS]

00:54:50   true at this point I'm just not just not [TS]

00:54:55   seeing it I'm I'm not confident so we'll [TS]

00:54:59   see we'll see when this launches we'll [TS]

00:55:01   see how it performs especially the [TS]

00:55:03   beginning maybe their traffic won't be [TS]

00:55:05   that bad maybe they'll do what Facebook [TS]

00:55:07   did for example start with off-the-shelf [TS]

00:55:08   things some dude writing something in [TS]

00:55:10   PHP and just apply knowledge and money [TS]

00:55:13   to it from that point to modify it until [TS]

00:55:16   it works [TS]

00:55:16   nah Apple doesn't like to talk about the [TS]

00:55:20   server-side stuff at all they don't like [TS]

00:55:22   to talk about any other met internal [TS]

00:55:23   magic like we do stuff behind the scenes [TS]

00:55:25   that you don't want to know about and we [TS]

00:55:27   present you with the finished product [TS]

00:55:29   which is beautiful and you give us money [TS]

00:55:30   for but they do know that that's true [TS]

00:55:33   with all their stuff they don't you know [TS]

00:55:34   would for the longest time it was I just [TS]

00:55:38   think it's a natural evolution for them [TS]

00:55:41   to want [TS]

00:55:42   keep this stuff you know don't don't [TS]

00:55:45   worry about it we're taking care of it [TS]

00:55:47   they don't tell you how they do their [TS]

00:55:48   industrial design how they design [TS]

00:55:49   applications they don't tell you [TS]

00:55:50   anything so it makes sense yes that they [TS]

00:55:52   wouldn't tell you about the data centers [TS]

00:55:53   but again it is at odds with all the [TS]

00:55:56   other people who do data center stuff [TS]

00:55:58   even Google who completely jealously [TS]

00:56:00   hoards the details of how to do it like [TS]

00:56:02   you can't by going to these Google [TS]

00:56:03   seminars and reading their white papers [TS]

00:56:05   you cannot do what Google did you can [TS]

00:56:06   know what they did and try to reproduce [TS]

00:56:09   it but they don't give you you know like [TS]

00:56:11   here's the blueprint if you want to make [TS]

00:56:12   a data center just like Google's do [TS]

00:56:13   exactly this that and the other thing ah [TS]

00:56:15   but you know why so why is there the [TS]

00:56:17   expectation then then Apple would do [TS]

00:56:21   that when clearly they don't have to [TS]

00:56:23   it's not expectations well one of these [TS]

00:56:26   things is not like the other Apple wants [TS]

00:56:28   to play with these big boys but is doing [TS]

00:56:29   everything differently now that's not to [TS]

00:56:31   say they're going to fail because you [TS]

00:56:32   could say that almost about anything [TS]

00:56:33   like when Apple makes their handheld [TS]

00:56:34   devices everybody else was doing one [TS]

00:56:36   thing and Apple did something else with [TS]

00:56:37   iOS and the iPhone right and everybody [TS]

00:56:39   else was doing one thing and Apple did [TS]

00:56:41   something different with the iPod fewer [TS]

00:56:43   features you know no hardware keyboard [TS]

00:56:46   closed App Store not licensing the [TS]

00:56:49   operating system not open sourcing it [TS]

00:56:52   they've been on the contrary side of [TS]

00:56:55   several industry trends many many times [TS]

00:56:58   the difference I think in this case [TS]

00:57:00   maybe is that they're not at odds with [TS]

00:57:03   other things that are failures or are [TS]

00:57:06   unproven you know like the Apple was at [TS]

00:57:08   odds with all the smart phones but [TS]

00:57:11   before Apple came along let's be honest [TS]

00:57:12   all their smart phones sucked nobody how [TS]

00:57:15   many people had smart phones they were [TS]

00:57:16   just geeks who are gluttons for [TS]

00:57:17   punishment and those things had horrible [TS]

00:57:19   interfaces and even the people who owned [TS]

00:57:20   them could not be convinced that they [TS]

00:57:22   loved these things you know so it's not [TS]

00:57:24   like Apple was coming into a market [TS]

00:57:27   where people love their smartphones they [TS]

00:57:28   couldn't they couldn't get their fingers [TS]

00:57:30   off and they were downloading apps left [TS]

00:57:31   and right and they were just loving it [TS]

00:57:32   you an Apple came along completely [TS]

00:57:33   contrary to them and stop them no they [TS]

00:57:35   came into a market where nobody had [TS]

00:57:36   figured out how to make a decent smart [TS]

00:57:38   phone nobody was using apps on their [TS]

00:57:39   phone except for like a Java bejeweled [TS]

00:57:41   app and you know the SMS app maybe ain't [TS]

00:57:43   no right and they came in and said we [TS]

00:57:46   have a better way to do this now here [TS]

00:57:47   apples coming into a scenario where [TS]

00:57:49   several very large very successful [TS]

00:57:51   companies have more or less figured out [TS]

00:57:53   what it takes to build successful online [TS]

00:57:55   services [TS]

00:57:56   services that are way more successful [TS]

00:57:57   than anything online Apple has ever done [TS]

00:57:59   and this is not a young market in terms [TS]

00:58:02   of who the leaders are these companies [TS]

00:58:04   are the second or third generation of [TS]

00:58:07   kings of the internet this is where [TS]

00:58:09   Apple's coming in and doing things [TS]

00:58:11   differently and and the other difference [TS]

00:58:13   is they're doing things differently in [TS]

00:58:15   sort of a secret way like when they [TS]

00:58:16   introduce a product that is very [TS]

00:58:18   different than establishment it's clear [TS]

00:58:20   that to everybody that Apple is doing [TS]

00:58:23   something different it's you know it's [TS]

00:58:24   like whoa here's here's a product that's [TS]

00:58:26   very different from everybody else and [TS]

00:58:27   like it's a differentiator right but [TS]

00:58:30   when they're doing the data scent [TS]

00:58:32   they're not talking about how their data [TS]

00:58:33   centers are different and the only [TS]

00:58:34   reason we're discovering this is people [TS]

00:58:35   are you know digging around in there and [TS]

00:58:37   trying to see how they are different [TS]

00:58:38   it's it's behind-the-scenes different [TS]

00:58:40   it's not different in a way that helps [TS]

00:58:42   them in terms of marketing and or [TS]

00:58:43   differentiation I don't know if that [TS]

00:58:47   makes the difference or not but this [TS]

00:58:48   this intrigues me this battle of how you [TS]

00:58:51   build data centers because the ability [TS]

00:58:53   to build that skill building data [TS]

00:58:55   centers is clearly a skill of the future [TS]

00:58:58   if you want to describe it in the say [TS]

00:59:00   anything way no one's gonna get that [TS]

00:59:02   reference huh kickboxing sport of the [TS]

00:59:04   future anybody I've seen about mine yeah [TS]

00:59:07   I have alright john cusack yeah so data [TS]

00:59:11   centers skill the future because it's [TS]

00:59:14   hard to imagine the most successful [TS]

00:59:16   company in the world in 20 85 not having [TS]

00:59:21   a gigantic data center full of something [TS]

00:59:22   you know what I mean so this will [TS]

00:59:26   definitely be a skill that if Apple [TS]

00:59:29   wants to be around for my great [TS]

00:59:31   grandchildren and be significant and [TS]

00:59:32   important which I'm sure if you ask [TS]

00:59:34   Steve Jobs he wants them to they gotta [TS]

00:59:36   figure this out maybe they have figured [TS]

00:59:39   out maybe they're going to get a leg up [TS]

00:59:42   on everybody else I don't know [TS]

00:59:43   it's the final thing I wanna say about [TS]

00:59:45   this is that it is out of character for [TS]

00:59:47   Apple to rely so much on other vendors [TS]

00:59:49   don't you think that they still want to [TS]

00:59:52   own every single thing that they do they [TS]

00:59:53   want they want to have contracts locked [TS]

00:59:55   up for their suppliers they want to be [TS]

00:59:56   able to have multiple sources for [TS]

00:59:57   everything they want to divide design [TS]

00:59:57   everything they want to divide design [TS]

01:00:00   and their own system-on-a-chip they want [TS]

01:00:02   to design all their own software and [TS]

01:00:04   have control of just everything along [TS]

01:00:06   the pipeline do not want to rely on any [TS]

01:00:07   other parties especially competitors but [TS]

01:00:09   here they are filling their data science [TS]

01:00:11   with stuff many of which are made by [TS]

01:00:13   competitors HP is making you know webOS [TS]

01:00:15   and the touchpad clearly a competitor [TS]

01:00:17   Oracle I guess not really a competitor [TS]

01:00:19   the storage one the storage people are [TS]

01:00:21   probably not competitors but Microsoft I [TS]

01:00:23   would say so you have to say they're [TS]

01:00:24   still a competitor and that's like the [TS]

01:00:26   backbone of their operating system [TS]

01:00:27   whatever what if it's just something as [TS]

01:00:29   simple as saying John that the right [TS]

01:00:31   tool for the right job and it just so [TS]

01:00:33   happens that this is for whatever [TS]

01:00:35   Apple's thinking is that this tool made [TS]

01:00:38   by sure one of our competitors is this [TS]

01:00:40   is the right tool for this job until we [TS]

01:00:42   have our own solution or until there's a [TS]

01:00:43   better tool we're going to use this [TS]

01:00:45   because this does what we need and it's [TS]

01:00:47   the best tool it could it be that simple [TS]

01:00:50   the Apple mo on stuff like hardware is [TS]

01:00:53   not to say let me look at the market and [TS]

01:00:55   find the best system on the chip for [TS]

01:00:57   smartphones there mo is to say we looked [TS]

01:01:00   at all of the system on chips that are [TS]

01:01:02   available and none of them is exactly [TS]

01:01:04   tailored to our needs they all have some [TS]

01:01:06   subsystem that we're not interested in [TS]

01:01:07   or they take too much power or they're [TS]

01:01:09   too slow so we're going to Commission [TS]

01:01:12   the design of our own system on a chip [TS]

01:01:13   does exactly what we needed to do like [TS]

01:01:16   that's that's been their the way they [TS]

01:01:19   operate with almost anything they have [TS]

01:01:21   to do externally is to not accept what [TS]

01:01:23   is being offered to them but to ask for [TS]

01:01:25   more take take the CPU in the MacBook [TS]

01:01:27   Air they didn't go to Intel and said [TS]

01:01:28   what's the best chip you've got that we [TS]

01:01:29   can fit in this awesome skinny little [TS]

01:01:31   notebook they went to in town said we've [TS]

01:01:33   got this awesome skinny little notebook [TS]

01:01:34   and nothing you're offering us fits in [TS]

01:01:36   there can you make us a new chip only [TS]

01:01:38   for us that has the requirements that we [TS]

01:01:41   need of it to fit inside this little [TS]

01:01:42   thing and Intel did it that's how they [TS]

01:01:45   work so in this case I mean maybe they [TS]

01:01:48   do that with these vendors I don't know [TS]

01:01:49   maybe they went to the vendors and said [TS]

01:01:50   nothing you have satisfies our needs at [TS]

01:01:52   will you build us this custom thing [TS]

01:01:53   because we'll buy a bazillion of them [TS]

01:01:55   and fill our data center in North [TS]

01:01:57   Carolina with them right mm-hmm I don't [TS]

01:02:01   know again without the details we can't [TS]

01:02:03   know how that's working but it it just [TS]

01:02:04   seems out of character now I guess one [TS]

01:02:08   part of it doesn't make sense is Apple [TS]

01:02:09   pulling out of that market like stopping [TS]

01:02:11   the Xserve line and everything that [TS]

01:02:13   fits with this because apple it's Apple [TS]

01:02:15   saying look we're not going to do data [TS]

01:02:17   center stuffs because it's embarrassing [TS]

01:02:19   for us to make a server but then not be [TS]

01:02:20   able to use it in our own stuff because [TS]

01:02:22   it's not good enough or cheap enough or [TS]

01:02:23   whatever so it's clear that this is not [TS]

01:02:25   our Forte let's stop making server [TS]

01:02:27   hardware like this let's not making rack [TS]

01:02:28   mount server hardware we're not we're [TS]

01:02:29   just not in that business and then when [TS]

01:02:32   they go to vendors they can say say like [TS]

01:02:33   we stopped our server line we're totally [TS]

01:02:34   not competing with you guys but now we [TS]

01:02:36   mean to buy your 1u servers and your [TS]

01:02:38   storage and stuff like that even though [TS]

01:02:40   our professional people love their extra [TS]

01:02:41   raids and they love doing all that stuff [TS]

01:02:43   and it was so easy to manage we just got [TS]

01:02:45   to get out of that business so all our [TS]

01:02:46   customers will now be buying your stuff [TS]

01:02:48   or something so we're buddies right [TS]

01:02:50   let's buy some of your server hardware [TS]

01:02:51   even though these companies do compete [TS]

01:02:53   with them HP is obviously competing them [TS]

01:02:54   with the touchpad and webOS phones and [TS]

01:02:56   stuff like that the this server hardware [TS]

01:02:59   people don't view Apple as a competitor [TS]

01:03:01   because they're not and in big companies [TS]

01:03:03   segments of the company especially big [TS]

01:03:06   companies that are not Apple segments of [TS]

01:03:07   the company operate as somewhat [TS]

01:03:09   independent entities where the guy who's [TS]

01:03:12   in charge of server is rubbing his hands [TS]

01:03:14   to this contract to fill this data [TS]

01:03:15   center with hardware and he doesn't care [TS]

01:03:17   whether or not it's in the strategic [TS]

01:03:18   best interest of HP versus a company [TS]

01:03:20   like Apple where if you're talking to [TS]

01:03:22   some even like a VP of some department [TS]

01:03:24   and trying to do a deal with him he sure [TS]

01:03:26   as hell not doing anything that's not in [TS]

01:03:27   the best interest of Apple even if it's [TS]

01:03:29   good for his department because all that [TS]

01:03:31   stuff's got to go through the chain of [TS]

01:03:33   command and it's never going to get [TS]

01:03:34   approved if it doesn't if it's not in [TS]

01:03:35   any strategic interest of the company [TS]

01:03:37   Apple is very good about operating a [TS]

01:03:40   being of one mind about the company [TS]

01:03:43   versus other companies which have little [TS]

01:03:46   kingdoms in them that can operate more [TS]

01:03:48   independently it seems so that's all [TS]

01:03:54   I've got on my that was my main topic [TS]

01:03:56   for the day what was a good topic way [TS]

01:03:58   better than the one I was thinking of we [TS]

01:04:01   still have time for mine because I think [TS]

01:04:02   it's a relatively short one all right [TS]

01:04:04   let's go for it well we also just want [TS]

01:04:06   to say thanks to felt-tip comm makers of [TS]

01:04:10   sound studio for this is Jon Syracuse's [TS]

01:04:12   go-to app when it comes to recording [TS]

01:04:15   editing and producing audio this is what [TS]

01:04:17   he uses it's what he's always used and [TS]

01:04:19   same for me my go-to app and to Mac OS [TS]

01:04:23   10 I purchased an OS 10 [TS]

01:04:25   and for recording edit editing and [TS]

01:04:28   creating digital audio on your computer [TS]

01:04:30   it doesn't matter whether it's a podcast [TS]

01:04:31   spoken word or music and from this [TS]

01:04:34   high-quality master you can save in all [TS]

01:04:36   of the major formats WAV AAC mp3 and [TS]

01:04:39   John Syracuse's very favorite format of [TS]

01:04:42   all time OGG Vorbis and that you can get [TS]

01:04:45   sound studio for on the Mac App Store [TS]

01:04:47   just search for sound studio or go to [TS]

01:04:50   felt-tip comm /ss and seriously people [TS]

01:04:53   always ask me Dan what app do you use to [TS]

01:04:55   record what I want to record something [TS]

01:04:56   which ladies use this this is what you [TS]

01:04:59   should use so thanks to felt-tip comm [TS]

01:05:01   for making this show possible [TS]

01:05:03   OGG Vorbis you know speaking of audio [TS]

01:05:06   formats that ever tell you my my one and [TS]

01:05:08   only communicating with you Steve Jobs [TS]

01:05:11   story yeah never heard that maybe this [TS]

01:05:13   can be our second thought this is great [TS]

01:05:14   you've been holding out on me it's a [TS]

01:05:17   short one no it's not you know so [TS]

01:05:18   everyone everyone email Steve Jobs at [TS]

01:05:20   some point I think [TS]

01:05:21   have you ever emailed him no I would [TS]

01:05:23   never do something like that [TS]

01:05:24   you've never emailed nah do of course [TS]

01:05:26   not know why you know why you didn't [TS]

01:05:27   email him because when you were young [TS]

01:05:28   enough to eat to think that you should [TS]

01:05:30   email Steve Jobs you were PC weenie not [TS]

01:05:32   not not true at all totally true you're [TS]

01:05:34   building your own PC easier yeah but I [TS]

01:05:36   might become the computer I used was a [TS]

01:05:39   Mac what I did for a living was P sound [TS]

01:05:42   you half PC me alright but at any rate I [TS]

01:05:46   was young and foolish and and Steve was [TS]

01:05:49   back at Apple and I sent him a couple of [TS]

01:05:52   emails of the course of my life I even [TS]

01:05:55   even when I was younger I knew enough [TS]

01:05:56   like not to write him a dissertation I [TS]

01:05:59   would keep my emails like the equivalent [TS]

01:06:02   of being a bartender at a college bar [TS]

01:06:04   okay and and and all you do is pour [TS]

01:06:07   Coors Light for people when you get home [TS]

01:06:09   does that mean you should drink Coors [TS]

01:06:10   Light now you're still suckin on huh I [TS]

01:06:13   just wanna be clear about it don't be [TS]

01:06:14   offended yeah no I understand the [TS]

01:06:16   analogy under saying it's as you say if [TS]

01:06:18   you want if you want to insult me for [TS]

01:06:20   being a geek dance only than the right [TS]

01:06:21   way alright well you know that's it's [TS]

01:06:23   guilt by association I I'll live I can [TS]

01:06:25   live with then alright so anyway I would [TS]

01:06:29   always try to keep them short because [TS]

01:06:30   this guy's if you want your email to [TS]

01:06:31   have any impact you just have to figure [TS]

01:06:33   out what it is that you want to say and [TS]

01:06:34   you know like when you see those emails [TS]

01:06:35   that have like an executive summary at [TS]

01:06:36   the top that's got to be the whole email [TS]

01:06:38   I had the whole email just one one just [TS]

01:06:41   the executive summaries he's the [TS]

01:06:42   executive in you're summarizing forum [TS]

01:06:44   this was before like this is 1997-98 [TS]

01:06:46   when he just came back so maybe actually [TS]

01:06:48   write Edina so I would send him stuff [TS]

01:06:49   all the time [TS]

01:06:50   I'm at one point I sent him a mail like [TS]

01:06:53   I think it iTunes music store I'd just [TS]

01:06:55   been introduced and I and I was pissed [TS]

01:06:56   off that they're producing lossy music [TS]

01:06:58   we've talked about this on past shows I [TS]

01:06:59   don't like you know it was music quality [TS]

01:07:01   that was lower quality than CD it seemed [TS]

01:07:03   like a step backwards Digital [TS]

01:07:04   downloading good crappy compression bad [TS]

01:07:07   hmm [TS]

01:07:08   so I said basically that I thought that [TS]

01:07:11   when you bought a song you should buy [TS]

01:07:12   the rights to the best quality version [TS]

01:07:14   of that song and even if they send you [TS]

01:07:16   the crappy mp3 you should have the [TS]

01:07:17   rights to the higher quality version as [TS]

01:07:19   well so if you were a masochist you [TS]

01:07:20   could download the big twenty-two [TS]

01:07:22   megabyte uncompressed version [TS]

01:07:24   uncompressed quote-unquote the CD [TS]

01:07:26   quality version at the very least don't [TS]

01:07:27   make it worse right and I said that [TS]

01:07:30   Microsoft had a lossless audio format [TS]

01:07:33   that they were using for this or could [TS]

01:07:35   potentially useful I think they were [TS]

01:07:36   using like plays for sure or whatever [TS]

01:07:38   Microsoft's failed music initiative was [TS]

01:07:40   at this particular time I think I [TS]

01:07:41   referenced it and noted that they had a [TS]

01:07:43   compressed but not lossy audio format I [TS]

01:07:47   forget what the name was [TS]

01:07:48   and the reason I remember this email [TS]

01:07:52   among the five or six I've ever sent in [TS]

01:07:54   my life is that he actually replied to [TS]

01:07:55   it in his typical one sentence reply [TS]

01:07:58   fashion ah [TS]

01:08:00   he asked hee hee I figured what the pie [TS]

01:08:03   was it basically was one sentence it [TS]

01:08:04   said he was referencing the Microsoft [TS]

01:08:06   lossless compression formats and it said [TS]

01:08:10   what are these we are not aware of them [TS]

01:08:13   right so now when you get when you get a [TS]

01:08:16   response like that first of all it's not [TS]

01:08:19   just like him saying yes or no it's a [TS]

01:08:20   questions question you've got a result [TS]

01:08:22   like wants to reply but on the other [TS]

01:08:24   hand if this was for example one of my [TS]

01:08:26   parents sending that reply but like take [TS]

01:08:28   the words you just put in that sentence [TS]

01:08:30   and paste them into Google and hit [TS]

01:08:31   return you're feeling lucky like it's [TS]

01:08:33   not rocket science but he's a busy man I [TS]

01:08:35   feel like it would have taken less time [TS]

01:08:37   then into you know and also he said we [TS]

01:08:42   are not aware he's not not just I am not [TS]

01:08:43   aware of these as an individual as a CEO [TS]

01:08:45   but it seems like he you know had a [TS]

01:08:48   conversation about it talk to somebody [TS]

01:08:50   and said what is this Microsoft losses [TS]

01:08:51   audio [TS]

01:08:52   iq things you're thinking about someone [TS]

01:08:54   mentioned doing have you heard of that [TS]

01:08:55   and I guess like no we are not aware of [TS]

01:08:56   that [TS]

01:08:56   so what I did I always google it and [TS]

01:09:00   write a one sentence reply of this is [TS]

01:09:02   what it is but then underneath it [TS]

01:09:04   provide in a passive aggressive manner [TS]

01:09:06   the link to the Google search should [TS]

01:09:08   what related you to the same information [TS]

01:09:10   and of course you know they didn't reply [TS]

01:09:12   to that Wow so I can't help being the [TS]

01:09:14   jerk I guess so fast forward about six [TS]

01:09:20   to eight months yeah and an Apple is I [TS]

01:09:24   think they're on stage during one of [TS]

01:09:25   their or maybe vision on stage maybe [TS]

01:09:27   just on a site on their site but they [TS]

01:09:28   released some iTunes update and as part [TS]

01:09:30   of it was anything iTunes update a [TS]

01:09:32   QuickTime update and as part of they [TS]

01:09:33   released a new thing called the apple [TS]

01:09:35   lossless audio codec which exists to [TS]

01:09:37   this day you can encode audio in it now [TS]

01:09:42   I don't know if you can connect those [TS]

01:09:43   dots and say because I whined about [TS]

01:09:46   anything you take credit for that I [TS]

01:09:48   don't know if I take credit for it but [TS]

01:09:50   the timing seems strange like first of [TS]

01:09:52   all who in their right mind makes their [TS]

01:09:54   own lossless audio compression format I [TS]

01:09:57   don't think Apple Lossless is SuperDuper [TS]

01:09:59   awesome I'm sure it has some kind of [TS]

01:10:01   compression in it it's not just an [TS]

01:10:03   uncompressed audio scream but I don't [TS]

01:10:06   know I don't know how much technical [TS]

01:10:07   underpinning there is to Apple Lossless [TS]

01:10:09   is to just run-of-the-mill is it not [TS]

01:10:11   even as good as flack I don't know but [TS]

01:10:13   the fact is that when I wrote the email [TS]

01:10:16   steve job claims to have no knowledge of [TS]

01:10:19   microsoft's lossless audio formance [TS]

01:10:20   maybe apple's already working on theirs [TS]

01:10:22   but the bottom line is that some some [TS]

01:10:25   results seem to happen from my email now [TS]

01:10:27   did they release music and Apple [TS]

01:10:29   Lossless no so really I was just [TS]

01:10:31   basically ignored but I always found it [TS]

01:10:33   funny that that series of events [TS]

01:10:37   happened and that you know in my mind I [TS]

01:10:39   like to think that that had some some [TS]

01:10:40   you know effect towards them making that [TS]

01:10:42   format you're gonna be one of those old [TS]

01:10:44   you're gonna be one of these old guys [TS]

01:10:45   who sits out in front of the the barber [TS]

01:10:48   shop or the drugstore some that zipper I [TS]

01:10:50   invented that and you know 78 I have [TS]

01:10:53   other stories that I can't share uh-huh [TS]

01:10:55   that have much tighter connections [TS]

01:10:57   because did you share them with me [TS]

01:10:58   offline yeah probably [TS]

01:11:00   between my complaints and Apple doing [TS]

01:11:02   things but they are must much less [TS]

01:11:04   significant I made [TS]

01:11:05   involve Steve Jobs at all hmm so that's [TS]

01:11:08   my one interaction with Steve Jobs by [TS]

01:11:11   one two-way interaction I have [TS]

01:11:13   occasionally sent things and there's [TS]

01:11:14   been a one line reply that's just a yes [TS]

01:11:16   or no type of thing but do you think he [TS]

01:11:18   knows who you are by name no no hey I [TS]

01:11:22   was speaking of Steve Jobs were on this [TS]

01:11:24   topic I was did you see a Gruber's [TS]

01:11:26   wife's tweet during WTC I only stopped [TS]

01:11:29   because he retweeted it Amy Amy Jean yes [TS]

01:11:32   and I hate her thing was I was it was [TS]

01:11:34   too quoted sequences which I assumed to [TS]

01:11:37   be communications between one of the [TS]

01:11:39   parents and their and their son was a [TS]

01:11:42   daddy got to talk to Steve Jobs and the [TS]

01:11:45   kids reply was he gets talk to Hodgins [TS]

01:11:47   that would be cool something so that was [TS]

01:11:50   that was the tweet all right and of [TS]

01:11:52   course then I had to meet last wait did [TS]

01:11:54   you talk to Steve Jobs when you were [TS]

01:11:55   done see and he told me he did not uh [TS]

01:12:00   but uh but the reason I thought he might [TS]

01:12:02   have is like now after Jobs gives the [TS]

01:12:04   keynote he comes down like into the [TS]

01:12:05   audience and you're like I'm angles I [TS]

01:12:07   guess right now obviously you know you [TS]

01:12:10   can't the odds of you getting close to [TS]

01:12:12   him are slim because he's surrounded by [TS]

01:12:13   senior Apple people possibly also by [TS]

01:12:16   bodyguards or other PR bounces that are [TS]

01:12:19   keeping out the rabble Gruber noted that [TS]

01:12:22   uh Dan Bricklin got to talk to Steve [TS]

01:12:25   Jobs after the keynote so apparently it [TS]

01:12:26   is possible to go from the audience [TS]

01:12:28   wander over and say hey Steve Aquino de [TS]

01:12:30   like that you know whatever dumb thing [TS]

01:12:32   you're gonna say but on the other hand [TS]

01:12:34   in Brooklyn invented visicalc which was [TS]

01:12:36   a big part of what made the Apple to [TS]

01:12:38   successful so I think he probably has a [TS]

01:12:40   little bit more chance of getting past [TS]

01:12:41   the outer perimeter of going to talk to [TS]

01:12:44   Steve Jobs in anybody else and the other [TS]

01:12:46   thing is that if you're gonna go talk to [TS]

01:12:47   Steve Jobs into the keynote you're not [TS]

01:12:49   going to have a meaningful exchange [TS]

01:12:49   about anything assuming he acknowledges [TS]

01:12:51   you what the heck you gonna say to him I [TS]

01:12:53   really love you Steve we love your [TS]

01:12:54   products been using them for years and [TS]

01:12:55   you say thank you and you're going to [TS]

01:12:57   shake his hand if you're lucky then [TS]

01:12:58   you're gonna move on so it's not like [TS]

01:12:59   you're really getting anything out of [TS]

01:13:01   that you know I mean I'm sure as hell [TS]

01:13:02   not signing autographs I don't try to [TS]

01:13:04   make ups on your MacBook right but I [TS]

01:13:06   would still have been very jealous if [TS]

01:13:07   Gruber had talked to him and so he [TS]

01:13:10   didn't isn't telling me or didn't but [TS]

01:13:12   that is that is a possibility [TS]

01:13:13   next time you're at a keynote you want [TS]

01:13:15   to be that guy give it a shot III [TS]

01:13:17   personally think if John Gruber [TS]

01:13:19   did talk to Steve Jobs he might have he [TS]

01:13:22   might have told his wife but he wouldn't [TS]

01:13:23   tell us I don't know I don't think you'd [TS]

01:13:26   be able to keep that himself out trust [TS]

01:13:28   me trust me he has no problem that lying [TS]

01:13:31   yeah I don't know he likes the lie to [TS]

01:13:33   you that's a long thing that's a given [TS]

01:13:35   yeah yeah but you like it that's the [TS]

01:13:38   thing though Steve Jobs would know who [TS]

01:13:40   John Gruber is he quoted him yeah he [TS]

01:13:41   would know he liked it I'm sure he knows [TS]

01:13:43   he is not I mean so it could totally [TS]

01:13:45   happen right so if you were going to be [TS]

01:13:50   a CEO of a large company who would you [TS]

01:13:52   model yourself after the guy who retired [TS]

01:13:56   with his millions and doesn't work [TS]

01:13:57   anymore [TS]

01:13:58   because I would be the worst not like [TS]

01:14:00   these guys who are CEOs successful [TS]

01:14:02   companies like once I became [TS]

01:14:05   independently wealthy I would never work [TS]

01:14:06   again say I was gonna say Paul Newman [TS]

01:14:09   does he I guess he kind of like didn't [TS]

01:14:11   do anything like eats salad dressing and [TS]

01:14:13   well he'd you know like I give a lot of [TS]

01:14:14   money to charity [TS]

01:14:15   it didn't seem hands-on in that company [TS]

01:14:17   he instilled some values set the thing [TS]

01:14:20   up and and then you just just walk away [TS]

01:14:23   you show up on Letterman once in a while [TS]

01:14:24   skiing in the Aspen in Aspen in Colorado [TS]

01:14:27   and just you know riding horses are [TS]

01:14:29   doing whatever it is racing cars doing [TS]

01:14:30   whatever Paul Newman does that's I would [TS]

01:14:32   not be like here's that here's the weird [TS]

01:14:34   thing if I became independently wealthy [TS]

01:14:36   I would never work again but what I [TS]

01:14:38   would do with my wealth and free time [TS]

01:14:39   would closely resemble what people do in [TS]

01:14:41   start-up companies I would just probably [TS]

01:14:44   not be successful at all at it but [TS]

01:14:45   that's that would be my hobby you know [TS]

01:14:47   what I mean but I would not model myself [TS]

01:14:49   after any of the CEOs so successful [TS]

01:14:53   companies who were still working even [TS]

01:14:53   Bill Gates stayed in it way longer and I [TS]

01:14:55   would because he's a bazillionaire many [TS]

01:14:57   times over like they have they're [TS]

01:14:58   workaholics they have the drive to [TS]

01:14:59   succeed they have the drive to build [TS]

01:15:00   great things beyond themselves I have [TS]

01:15:03   the drive to never have to work again [TS]

01:15:04   you would just sort of build a fortress [TS]

01:15:06   of solitude and retreat to that oh yeah [TS]

01:15:08   not yeah if you if you gave me like Bill [TS]

01:15:10   Gates tile money it would just be yeah [TS]

01:15:12   would you would you build underground I [TS]

01:15:14   would not build underground no [TS]

01:15:17   definitely not you wouldn't have like a [TS]

01:15:18   shelter oh no I wouldn't do the thing [TS]

01:15:22   where like you'd make yourself a bomb [TS]

01:15:23   shelter or stuff like that I bet you [TS]

01:15:25   would [TS]

01:15:25   and I would and the reason you're not [TS]

01:15:27   admitting to it is because you don't [TS]

01:15:29   want me to know about it know about my [TS]

01:15:30   secret lair yes no but what I would do [TS]

01:15:32   is like Bill [TS]

01:15:33   software and like hire people to build a [TS]

01:15:35   song like it would be if I'm telling you [TS]

01:15:38   if anybody wants to give me several [TS]

01:15:39   billion dollars it will be the biggest [TS]

01:15:41   boon to the Mac and iOS independent [TS]

01:15:43   software market than you've ever seen [TS]

01:15:46   because I would distribute that money to [TS]

01:15:48   every great developer I would like make [TS]

01:15:49   them offers they can't refuse you know [TS]

01:15:51   like higher amount of Marco Arment [TS]

01:15:52   here's a million dollars is what I want [TS]

01:15:54   you to write you know what I mean or [TS]

01:15:55   whatever you want to write well just it [TS]

01:15:57   would be completely a commune of like [TS]

01:15:58   writing cool software and making cool [TS]

01:16:00   hardware and just yeah so it's probably [TS]

01:16:04   a good thing they don't have billions [TS]

01:16:05   dollars because that seems like a huge [TS]

01:16:06   waste of money but that's what I would [TS]

01:16:07   do with my money but I sure as hell [TS]

01:16:09   would not continue to go to a job and [TS]

01:16:11   you know fight and compete with other [TS]

01:16:13   people well on that positive note we'll [TS]

01:16:15   end but we will be back next week on on [TS]

01:16:19   Friday to talk you can follow John [TS]

01:16:21   siracusa on Twitter s IRAC us a nosy in [TS]

01:16:26   circ user I'm Dan benjamin also on [TS]

01:16:29   twitter nosy in Dan Benjamin [TS]

01:16:32   thanks to fresh books Colin felt-tip [TS]

01:16:35   calm and those people who've been [TS]

01:16:38   raiding the show in iTunes thank you [TS]

01:16:40   people who have been donating to help [TS]

01:16:42   5x5 thank you people who have been [TS]

01:16:44   eagerly anticipating John's write up [TS]

01:16:47   online you'll have to wait good week you [TS]

01:16:53   dumb [TS]

01:17:07   you [TS]