0:00:00[Music]
0:00:02this is hypercritical weekly talkshow
0:00:04ruminating on exactly what is wrong in
0:00:07the world of Apple and related
0:00:08technologies and businesses nothing is
0:00:11so perfect that it cannot be complained
0:00:13about or criticized by my co-host John
0:00:16siracusa i'm dan benjamin this is a
0:00:18special episode John is at WWDC
0:00:22reporting live and direct from his hotel
0:00:25room we'll be talking a lot about that
0:00:28and other things of course but first we
0:00:30want to say thanks to our two sponsors
0:00:31Rackspace calm and Shopify calm which
0:00:35we'll tell you about as the program goes
0:00:37on so how's WWDC so you know I actually
0:00:40have follow-up listed on the sheet but
0:00:42do you want to skip it all now let's do
0:00:44some of it and we got to talk about your
0:00:46toaster so let's do the following oh and
0:00:48before you know what I even have some
0:00:49follow-up so let me do mine first
0:00:51because I almost never have an ambition
0:00:53okay go for it ah last episode I was on
0:00:56a crappy USB mic a lot of people seem to
0:00:59think that that was my new and I'm doing
0:01:01air quotes my new mobile studio or
0:01:04something and that they were going to
0:01:04have to endure that kind of quality and
0:01:06I had an inordinate amount of people
0:01:08emailing me tweeting me or I am a man
0:01:10with great concern that this was the new
0:01:13quality of the setup but you explained
0:01:15the situation people don't listen
0:01:17alright I'm not saying you don't listen
0:01:19you do but other some people were
0:01:22concerned about that and that was a very
0:01:24unique one-off situation I had only one
0:01:26computer I only had a USB headset with
0:01:29me it was a unique situation it was not
0:01:33reflective of anything we should ever
0:01:34let happen again and Johnse recusant was
0:01:37the one that recorded that I didn't even
0:01:38record it that's how weird of a
0:01:40situation it was so that did clearly
0:01:43it's not a problem this time and in fact
0:01:44we should we have someone to thank we
0:01:47would like to thank Jason Snell the
0:01:51grand pooh-bah of mac world for
0:01:54providing you with the you're in a
0:01:56full-fledged studio right now you're
0:01:58you're wired up you're miked up that's
0:02:00right
0:02:00headset mic whatever this pop guard
0:02:03whatever they call that thing so we'd
0:02:05like to thank them very very much for
0:02:08giving you such a great situation we
0:02:11tried to record yesterday and the
0:02:13Hotel internet with even though you were
0:02:15wired up there it was a subpar was
0:02:19unusable so we had to reschedule and
0:02:21Jason Snell came to the rescue and said
0:02:22I have just the place for Jon Circus he
0:02:26is a king among men so thanks to him and
0:02:28his whole organization that he has built
0:02:31from the ground up
0:02:32yeah self-made man mm-hmm all right now
0:02:36your your fu all right uh I think it was
0:02:41like two shows ago or something sometime
0:02:44we mentioned tweet marks which was
0:02:45Manresa service for keeping track of
0:02:47what position you are in the the Twitter
0:02:49timeline all right and I complained
0:02:51about the fact that like that's
0:02:53something that Twitter should be doing
0:02:54seems like something that Twitter should
0:02:56be doing why would they why would they
0:02:58leave that to a third party to to keep
0:03:00track of what your last read tweet was
0:03:02and somebody got my memory so bad was
0:03:05somebody explained why that would be
0:03:08maybe it was Marco maybe it was Gruber
0:03:10maybe who's Manton maybe it was in
0:03:12person maybe it was on a podcast yep I'm
0:03:14pretty fried after a week but somebody
0:03:17had an explanation for why in the world
0:03:18Twitter wouldn't uh you know keep track
0:03:21of where your last retreat was and the
0:03:23idea was that they don't want you to
0:03:25read every single tweet which is what I
0:03:27do but they don't want you to feel like
0:03:29you're behind and to like try to keep up
0:03:31with Twitter stream they they want you
0:03:33to just you know turn on your device and
0:03:35whatever tweets happen to be flying by
0:03:37that moment look at them because it's
0:03:39not email it's not a news group it's not
0:03:41important to realize just about now it's
0:03:43about right now they're they're trying
0:03:45to they're trying to influence the way
0:03:46people use it now that's not the way I
0:03:48use the product which explains why I'm
0:03:49so frustrated about you know not having
0:03:51this type of thing or you know and I and
0:03:53I guess I'm not the only one because
0:03:54mantains making this service you know
0:03:55there are other people who treat it more
0:03:57like kind of like a mailing list or like
0:04:01a bulletin board but just you and like
0:04:03you know 50 of your friends around
0:04:04because it's like a self-selected little
0:04:06mailing list with a couple of your
0:04:07friends it's the way a lot of people use
0:04:08it where you follow 10 or 20 people who
0:04:10you know you only see their things and
0:04:12it seems like all 10 or 20 of you are in
0:04:14a room it's like IRC without being in a
0:04:15room and without having to you know have
0:04:17a client and all that and so they want
0:04:19to see everything that they're 10 or 20
0:04:21people say as if you were all hanging
0:04:23out in the same room just not just
0:04:24temporarily separated you know I mean
0:04:27and that's the way I use Twitter and so
0:04:28a lot of used people use Twitter but
0:04:30that's not the way trigger wants people
0:04:31to use it and may not even be the way
0:04:33majority people use it I really couldn't
0:04:35say how most people use Twitter but at
0:04:37least there's some and I don't know if
0:04:39this was an explanation from Twitter
0:04:40itself or just someone you know
0:04:41speculating based on things that they've
0:04:43heard or just giving a rationalization
0:04:44but I bought it that sounded to me like
0:04:47it was plausible so maybe someday
0:04:50someone from Twitter will confirm that
0:04:52for you for me they're very they're very
0:04:54uh you know tight-lipped over there
0:04:56hello cards very close to their chest
0:04:59yeah I talked to Lauren Bricker actually
0:05:03met him for the first time and one of
0:05:04the one of the eight bazillion people I
0:05:06met at WABC but nice as Peter says the
0:05:08client stuff it really has no nothing
0:05:10particularly to say about the grand
0:05:12vision of Twitter you know it's not
0:05:14really involved in that all right on
0:05:18that's all I have for follow up that's
0:05:21actually followed you said you had a
0:05:22list on paper that was like one thing
0:05:24well you know it's indented there are a
0:05:27couple different levels all right well
0:05:31actually this is in the follow up too
0:05:32but I thought you would bring it up but
0:05:34you didn't but I'm loathe to bring it up
0:05:35so I'm just gonna skip it the toaster no
0:05:39that's not falled you want to talk about
0:05:41a toaster well I want to hear what this
0:05:42is if you're especially if you're loathe
0:05:44to bring it up I must know what it is Oh
0:05:46none I'm not gonna if you think of it on
0:05:48your own we'll discuss oh let's talk
0:05:50about the toaster toaster you know we'll
0:05:52get it out of the way before we talk
0:05:53about WBZ all right so III have sketchy
0:05:55details on how this whole toaster thing
0:05:57rolled out but perhaps you can tell the
0:05:59story all right well you know anyone who
0:06:02listens to the show knows the whole
0:06:03toaster back story if you don't go back
0:06:05a couple episodes and listen to the one
0:06:07where I complained about the quality of
0:06:08toasters and toaster ovens and then of
0:06:10course on the next show we had follow-up
0:06:12from people who wrote in about slot
0:06:13toasters versus toaster ovens and the
0:06:15different kinds of heating elements and
0:06:16and like any good network sometimes
0:06:20characters from one show appear on
0:06:22another show and right and backwards and
0:06:24forwards you know like you know you
0:06:26would you would have Fonzie showing up
0:06:28on Laverne and Shirley or whatever was
0:06:30so it's the same thing in this case
0:06:32Fonzie was Marco and you were Laverne
0:06:35and Shirley bunny I'm Marco got to talk
0:06:38about toasters before I did because I
0:06:39had mentioned
0:06:40I was going to talk about toaster but he
0:06:41caught on that yeah he recorded an
0:06:43episode before I even recorded my
0:06:44toaster episode where he talked about
0:06:45his toaster so going in we already heard
0:06:47about his toaster and then in my episode
0:06:48I talked about mine you talked about
0:06:50your toaster we linked all three
0:06:51toasters and in the show notes and we
0:06:53discussed their relative merits and you
0:06:55know I forget what the other things we
0:06:57discussed in that show but that was one
0:06:59of the topics that was the same show his
0:07:00Twitter but any right that's been you
0:07:02know out there in the network in you
0:07:05know in the 5x5 network this discussion
0:07:07of toasters but obviously I was the
0:07:08genesis of the toaster thing because I
0:07:10had originally said that I was going to
0:07:11complain about toasters and eventually
0:07:12did so was this two days ago you know
0:07:16movies yesterday I losing track the days
0:07:18here I was sitting down to a session at
0:07:20WWC and got a message on my Twitter DM
0:07:24from Marco saying hey can you come meet
0:07:28me and Merlin down on the first floor
0:07:30for a second and I hadn't yet met Merlin
0:07:33at the show who's in a few days in and I
0:07:34hadn't run into him he didn't attend the
0:07:36show but you know I know he lived here
0:07:37and I had heard that a couple other
0:07:38people to him so I hope Merlin's there I
0:07:39should go down and meet him otherwise I
0:07:41might have said I'll meet you after the
0:07:42session or something cuz it was the
0:07:43session I wanted to see but you know
0:07:45Merlin having Merlin's name in there and
0:07:46all right yeah I better go down there
0:07:47because it's may be my only chance to
0:07:49talk to him and I went down there and
0:07:51there's Merlin and Marko a couple the
0:07:54people standing around like hey how you
0:07:55doing and then I see they have this
0:07:57gigantic box for me and it's the very
0:08:01large surprisingly large box containing
0:08:02your toaster your exact make and model
0:08:04of toaster right which I had you know
0:08:06looked at and said that you know I liked
0:08:08what I saw and I had you know I had
0:08:11downloaded the PDF manual when you told
0:08:13me about it just to get the measurements
0:08:15of it to see that it would fit and stuff
0:08:16like that I'm like you know maybe I'll
0:08:18think if I can tell they you would you
0:08:19had gone so far as to put it on your
0:08:21Amazon wish list which is Paulo so it so
0:08:23I wouldn't yes I wouldn't lose track of
0:08:24it you know because this exact model
0:08:26number and maybe I would remember which
0:08:27episode that was on and on the show and
0:08:29stuff like that so I'm yeah I'm not sure
0:08:31I think Marco said he went to the show
0:08:33notes and got that but anyway Marco
0:08:34Merlin a bunch of other people had been
0:08:36at lunch together just you know hanging
0:08:39out or whatever and at some point they
0:08:40they came up with a toaster idea I think
0:08:42Marlon was we should get him a toaster
0:08:44and you know that type of enthusiasm can
0:08:46be infectious and that grew but if
0:08:48you're a little slap happy at that point
0:08:49so what they do they ran out to
0:08:51Bloomingdale's
0:08:52look for the toaster
0:08:54held it was like four models and tell
0:08:55suits they had there and one of the four
0:08:56models in toasters was your exact half
0:08:58love toaster and you just you just got
0:09:00the biggest upgrade of your whole life
0:09:02yeah yes I was I was uh very touched and
0:09:06and flattered and amused and then of
0:09:08course at that point they have to have
0:09:09me I had like a pink ribbon on too they
0:09:11had to have me posing with the toaster
0:09:12carrying it and of course I'm now you
0:09:15know socially obligated to do whatever
0:09:16heck whatever that embarrassing thing
0:09:18it's in the middle WWC mind you so here
0:09:20I am in this room full of nerds with the
0:09:22big huge banners but lying in the iCloud
0:09:24thing hanging overhead carrying a huge
0:09:26toaster box standing in the middle of
0:09:27this floor with 20 people taking
0:09:28pictures of me with iPhones celebrity
0:09:32yeah so you can see those online if
0:09:34you're really interested we'll try and
0:09:35get the did you add them to the show
0:09:36nuts yeah I have not added anything to
0:09:39the show notes because yeah the Wi-Fi at
0:09:42the hotel is like $15 a day and only
0:09:44paid for the two days that I used it one
0:09:46sided video chat home to my kids and
0:09:47once I tried to do the thing with you so
0:09:50that's got my little show notes
0:09:52bookmarklet and talk about blah blah
0:09:53blah so I haven't done any show notes I
0:09:55have to do them retro actively but yeah
0:09:56well there's a new guy added a new
0:09:58bookmarklet to the CMS son
0:10:00I saw it yeah the one that the live show
0:10:02yeah yeah so you can do it before now or
0:10:05after it goes live
0:10:06yes I'll get show notes up they will
0:10:08have these pictures in it I was debating
0:10:10whether it may depending on how much
0:10:12time I have to do this stuff maybe I'll
0:10:13do like a video unboxing of a toaster
0:10:16ball you've got two more likely I will
0:10:19once I get back home it's gonna be back
0:10:21into the swing of things and you know
0:10:22won't have time for plus I have to get
0:10:24my review written so maybe I will just
0:10:26be able to use it on it certainly on a
0:10:28future show I will give my analysis of
0:10:31the toast I've already discussed with
0:10:32the people who were responsible for
0:10:33giving to me that uh if there's
0:10:37something bad about the toaster I'm
0:10:38still gonna say it but don't feel bad
0:10:39isn't like I don't appreciate the gift
0:10:40but it's you know it's my way right so I
0:10:42will give up I will give a review of the
0:10:45toaster I did say that no matter how
0:10:46much I hated it I would never ever
0:10:47return it because it now has sentimental
0:10:49value you know what I mean yeah that's
0:10:52it's the witc toasters alright that was
0:10:54a very nice gesture by it by Marko and
0:10:56Merlin and I really appreciated it was
0:10:59touching from people I had just met you
0:11:01know what I mean you actually
0:11:02experienced a human emotion for one of
0:11:04the first times besides anger I do it
0:11:07all the time
0:11:07but you know wz i really have been
0:11:09overwhelmed with how how nice everybody
0:11:12has been to me in particular so ready to
0:11:17talk WT saying yeah I'd love to hear
0:11:19your take on it is if you have you heard
0:11:21any of the other shows or if you've been
0:11:22sequestered enough to intentionally not
0:11:25listen to Marco girl respond cast
0:11:26because I'm sure they're gonna say
0:11:27exactly the same things that I did so if
0:11:29you already listen to mark on Gruber's
0:11:30podcast I'm sorry if I repeat stuff that
0:11:32they said but it's it's just a
0:11:34coincidence that we are all saying the
0:11:36same thing and of course in this case
0:11:37we'll all of us have actually talked you
0:11:39know before our podcasts in person about
0:11:42the topic which is a change so the odds
0:11:44of us saying the same things are very
0:11:46very high but we'll say them in
0:11:47different voices oh and so as someone in
0:11:50the chatroom noted yes I am very hoarse
0:11:52today it's been a long week of late
0:11:54nights for an old man alright and that's
0:11:56allowed music and shouting so yeah you
0:11:59know this is a great microphone setup
0:12:00but you were hearing my hoarseness in
0:12:02all its glory this is such a great mommy
0:12:04we got to get you a better mic at your
0:12:05house or wherever you record I kind of
0:12:09find what you sang dude
0:12:11USB mic essing charm to it really
0:12:13doesn't it was better than that you
0:12:15can't you gotta say it's better than
0:12:16whatever you got but fries but well you
0:12:18know because I've been using my thing
0:12:19the whole run and no one has said hey
0:12:21you know John sounds awful you really I
0:12:22gotta get him a new mic they said you
0:12:24sounded awful immediately because that
0:12:26that thing was hard it was horrible I
0:12:27won't even I won't even say what brand
0:12:29it was but it was horrible and beyond
0:12:31that here's the other thing is that you
0:12:33were recording it with Skype call
0:12:35recorder on your end yes double whammy
0:12:37and then that made it even worse maybe
0:12:40if I'd recorded it here it might have
0:12:41sounded a little better but I doubt it
0:12:43but I don't even want to unlike you I
0:12:45don't I don't want to throw anybody
0:12:47under the bus so I won't even say that
0:12:50it was a logitech Oh - oh right yeah not
0:12:53too late now yeah all right um so yeah I
0:13:01didn't listen to ther up so they did see
0:13:02some of the titles of their episodes
0:13:03because I download them onto my ipod for
0:13:05the flight home so I can listen to what
0:13:07they have to say um certain birds yeah
0:13:12yeah and I floated by I thought oh yes
0:13:14certainly birds I can guess like Marco
0:13:16show I probably surprises because I was
0:13:18sitting next to him during the keynote
0:13:19so
0:13:21we kind of shared that experience yeah
0:13:23together so as for the s4w we see this
0:13:27you know the first day they have the
0:13:29keynote right but everything after that
0:13:31is under NDA so a lot of people have
0:13:33been emailing me and sending me messages
0:13:35on Twitter they want me to talk about X
0:13:36or Y because they read about it on some
0:13:38site but I'm not going to talk about
0:13:39anything that wasn't in the keynote
0:13:40because that's still under NDA and and
0:13:42truthfully most of the stuff you want to
0:13:44hear me you know what do you have to say
0:13:46about this particular thing if it wasn't
0:13:48mentioned in the keynote you're gonna
0:13:48read about of the Mac OS 10 review too
0:13:50so you'll have to wait until my Mac OS
0:13:5310 review to hear my take on things that
0:13:55were not in the keynote but I will
0:13:57discuss things that were in the key
0:13:58time's running out for you too
0:13:59yes I know they said July which is
0:14:02killing me like I didn't even get they
0:14:03didn't give me you know day but they
0:14:04always do that they'll say July what
0:14:06that means is the the last day of July I
0:14:08really hope it does but I have to assume
0:14:09they mean July first I'm gonna be
0:14:10working like a madman
0:14:12you can try to you know get something
0:14:14ready on July 1st then I'll just polish
0:14:17it in it you know the thing the thing
0:14:18with this thing is it's never done just
0:14:19big escapes you know whatever the
0:14:22deadline is whatever I've got that point
0:14:24that's it but you know with online
0:14:27publishing up until like the last second
0:14:29that's published I'm adding stuff fixing
0:14:31stuff cracking stuff adding those and
0:14:32sometimes even like in the first five
0:14:34minutes that is published I'll add a
0:14:35sentence or two just I cannot stop you
0:14:37know like always another tidbit oh
0:14:38here's a clarification I got in this you
0:14:39know it's like a living document
0:14:41eventually just have to let it go so I
0:14:43will work that way with this document
0:14:45right up until it goes out now as for
0:14:48the as for the attending before we talk
0:14:50about the keynote ending this stuff yeah
0:14:52since this is my first WWC the thing I
0:14:54hadn't really given much thought to was
0:14:56that when I watched the videos which
0:14:57I've done for years and years
0:14:59I can watch pretty much all of them but
0:15:01when you're there in person it's a
0:15:02multitrack conference and you can't you
0:15:04literally cannot go to all the sessions
0:15:05because you can't be in five places at
0:15:07once and it was frustrating to have to
0:15:09choose between you know two sometimes
0:15:11three sessions all of which I wanted to
0:15:12see and the worst part was that if I
0:15:14missed one that means I have to wait you
0:15:17know a week and a half two weeks for the
0:15:18videos to come out and now it's almost
0:15:20July 1st already before I can even see
0:15:21the session you know even though I went
0:15:22to WWC I can't there's a session that I
0:15:24cannot see and you know until I get to
0:15:27videos and that may be you know days
0:15:28before I have to be done so that's a
0:15:31little bit tight so
0:15:33being there great experience overall I
0:15:36mean this is this is your your home turf
0:15:38really yeah you know I get the
0:15:41impression for being here that like like
0:15:43saying you go to WWC for the sessions
0:15:45sometimes seems a little bit like saying
0:15:47you read playboy for the articles you
0:15:49know I mean like and and I was like no
0:15:52I'm going you know before I left like
0:15:53you know I'm going for the sessions
0:15:54totally because I need to learn this
0:15:56information to do my review so on and so
0:15:58forth but there realistically speaking
0:16:01especially for the first time maybe
0:16:02would be different in subsequent but for
0:16:04the for the first time it's like meeting
0:16:05meeting the people and talking with the
0:16:07people was so much more important than
0:16:08the sessions the sessions were great and
0:16:11I loved the videos and everything I do
0:16:12need to do my job but the reason it was
0:16:15worth all the money and time and
0:16:16vacation and you know everything to me
0:16:18was was meeting the people so that was
0:16:20the most enjoyable thing the most
0:16:22gratifying thing and the thing I'm going
0:16:25to miss you know assuming I don't go
0:16:26next year which I probably won't is you
0:16:27know seeing all those people again but
0:16:29just meaning from the first time was
0:16:30great so you're there you're at WWDC
0:16:35you're trying to pick tracks yeah
0:16:37but let's talk about the keynote first I
0:16:40mean before we get into the who cares
0:16:41what session I don't care what says I
0:16:42can't talk I can't talk about those
0:16:44anyways all right these are the keynote
0:16:46uhm first time being in the same room
0:16:48with Steve Jobs for you not true not
0:16:49true
0:16:50electrifying not true was the first time
0:16:52I went to Macworld New York 2001 and I
0:16:54got a free apology Mouse remember I
0:16:56think we discussed this yes yes so I
0:16:58have seen him speak before and actually
0:17:00I've seen you know I went to the Boston
0:17:01tech talks which were free to all
0:17:02registered developers remember the tech
0:17:04talk things it was like a little mini
0:17:05WWC where they'd come to your town and
0:17:07some of the guys who gave the same you
0:17:09know presentations WABC would do it was
0:17:11a one day thing one track in a place in
0:17:15Boston you know where so I didn't have
0:17:17to take you know of playing anywhere or
0:17:20get hotel or anything like that so I
0:17:21went to that so I feel like I'd been to
0:17:22a mini WWE but this is you know on a big
0:17:24scale this place is huge it's really
0:17:26nice looking and it's just tons and tons
0:17:28of nerds here but anyway I had seen
0:17:30Steve speak before so I was you know I
0:17:33had asked Marco before like the days in
0:17:36the weeks before how early do you have
0:17:37to get online to be able to get into the
0:17:39keynote you know or asked a bunch of
0:17:40people who'd actually been there and
0:17:41Marco and a few other people said oh you
0:17:43know like 6:00 a.m. something like that
0:17:45you should be ok so
0:17:46I got in line at 6:00 a.m. and the line
0:17:48was like a wrapping around the building
0:17:49all the way back to the front door again
0:17:51about like an entire city block it's
0:17:53crazy but the place is huge so I did
0:17:55actually at lining up at 6:00 I did
0:17:57actually get in we did a little bit of
0:17:59like you know a line rearrangement once
0:18:03it became a giant mob so both Marco and
0:18:05I advanced from where we remember we
0:18:06were waiting in line did you find that
0:18:09because of your because of your
0:18:11notoriety and fame that people would you
0:18:14know let you advance freely oh now once
0:18:17you get inside the hall you're not in a
0:18:19line anymore you're in like kind of a
0:18:20big mob right I have like you know
0:18:22tables on the side for you to connect
0:18:23your laptop and plug in and I think the
0:18:25Ahmet coffee or something like that so
0:18:26it became less of a line and more mob at
0:18:28once it was a mob we could move forward
0:18:29a little bit we were still pretty far
0:18:30back but anyway we were far away from
0:18:32Steve but we had a good position we
0:18:33picked one like where we could see one
0:18:36of the big screens but we could also see
0:18:37Steve at the same time anyway so he went
0:18:41into the keynote um the first thing we
0:18:43started with was lion which I really
0:18:45don't have anything to say about for the
0:18:47podcast not because no you want to keep
0:18:50it you've got to get control of your
0:18:52brand the other thing is though nothing
0:18:55they showed at the keynote was something
0:18:56that if you were a developer you didn't
0:18:58already know about like the previous
0:18:59developer builds which were all under
0:19:01NDA or whatever but what they showed on
0:19:02stage would only be new to you had you
0:19:04not been a developer downloading the
0:19:06line built in verse I had been telling
0:19:08the lion build so they didn't have
0:19:09anything new like remember that lion
0:19:11preview they gave way back went yeah
0:19:14right there were new stuff that's all
0:19:16the last time you saw a lion than you
0:19:17saw things that were new but if you have
0:19:18been downloading the builds it's like
0:19:20yeah I know I've done that the only
0:19:21thing it was frustrating to me was that
0:19:22every time they pull up the screen you
0:19:24know look how they moved that thing
0:19:25again and I had to redo all those
0:19:27screenshots like hey Kevin they keep
0:19:29moving stuff around the UI like trivial
0:19:30cosmetic changes but it does mean I have
0:19:32to go back and redo these screenshots
0:19:34some of which were like carefully
0:19:35arranged to have you know just the right
0:19:36amount of data in them stuff so
0:19:38something that was frustrating but but
0:19:41yeah lion was first it was it was the
0:19:43least there was no surprises there and
0:19:45and then that went off fine and the next
0:19:48one I think the next thing was was next
0:19:52thing was iCloud I think or maybe it was
0:19:53iOS Bob but iCloud was at the end it was
0:19:55iOS 5 yeah I'm gonna talk about I caught
0:19:57first okay um
0:20:00so I mean we are iCloud is weird because
0:20:03like they did that press release and
0:20:04they said we're gonna talk about iCloud
0:20:05it was a Apple's upcoming cloud services
0:20:08offering do you remember that yeah and I
0:20:10tweeted that's like the most uh Napa
0:20:12like phrase I've ever read right so also
0:20:14like something Sun would say right so
0:20:16the first part is upcoming since when
0:20:18does Apple ever tell you anything that's
0:20:20up coming up coming right away on Apple
0:20:22like they don't you know pre mount stuff
0:20:23like that and then cloud services
0:20:25offering what the hell does that mean
0:20:26that's like a corporate Enterprise
0:20:28doublespeak BS that Apple absolutely
0:20:30does not do ever and that's what they
0:20:32call this thing so that was kind of you
0:20:34know a low point I think for Apple PR
0:20:37that you know the fact that they had to
0:20:38explain it all I agree with Gruber that
0:20:40they were just trying to once again set
0:20:42expectations that there's not going to
0:20:43be an iPhone on the stage right no
0:20:44hardware guy seriously this is what
0:20:46we're doing
0:20:46lion iOS 5 iCloud or I can tell you what
0:20:49it is but we're going to tell you the
0:20:50name and that's it so I believe they had
0:20:52to set expectations but cloud service
0:20:54offering is not a great name for
0:20:56anything um
0:20:59now as for iCloud we all know like if
0:21:02you've been following helpful for a long
0:21:03time you know there was itools there was
0:21:05Mac there was mobile me and no one liked
0:21:08any of those things for varying reasons
0:21:09you know they weren't that successful
0:21:10they had problems they were annoying
0:21:13they were expensive iCloud cloud
0:21:16services offering brings to my all right
0:21:17it's gonna be kind of like what dot Mac
0:21:21mobile me all that stuff did but not as
0:21:23crappy that was like the going to the
0:21:26show you know what it's going to be and
0:21:28the thing about these these cloud
0:21:30services things is that like the way
0:21:32Apple usually does stuff and Gruber had
0:21:34a good article about this I think it was
0:21:35a back page of Mac world is that they
0:21:37create something create something simple
0:21:40with like a clear purpose and message
0:21:42and then they approve it they iterate
0:21:43they polish you know they don't sit on
0:21:45their laurels they don't make something
0:21:46then try to milk it for profits or ever
0:21:48you know they put out version 1 version
0:21:49Joe and get better and better and refine
0:21:51and just you know and that process leads
0:21:53you from like the original iPod to you
0:21:56know going up to like the the iPod Touch
0:21:59like the gap between those two is
0:22:00humongous and it's just you know under
0:22:02the same product name iPod and they just
0:22:03they just iterated iterated and just at
0:22:05every opportunity like going from the
0:22:07the mini to the Nano a big leap there
0:22:09from the now after that crazy whistle
0:22:11wristwatch thing and then on to iOS you
0:22:12know
0:22:13these products benefit from iterative
0:22:15improvement now in the cloud space they
0:22:17haven't gotten that benefit because
0:22:19they've sort of gone to a bunch of dead
0:22:20ends like itools was kind of like
0:22:22whatever and then got Mac was like their
0:22:24first attempt but people didn't really
0:22:25like it and then you know MobileMe was
0:22:28like well okay let's try it again how
0:22:30about this
0:22:30and it's like no that's still kind of
0:22:32sucky so it's like a series of false
0:22:33starts instead of say eye tools had been
0:22:36off it awesome and they ate it on it and
0:22:38kept the brand name you know and by now
0:22:40we have like I to eye tools version 27
0:22:42it was super awesome
0:22:43now we don't get the benefit of apples
0:22:46usual iteration on cloud services
0:22:48instead we get just a series of failures
0:22:50and so no matter how good I cloud is it
0:22:52disappoints me that it's not like the
0:22:54fifth revision of some service you know
0:22:55it's the first revision of some service
0:22:58now you know how much underlying stopped
0:23:00every user how you know how they
0:23:01redesigned it under the covers it's a
0:23:03shame that in 2011 we are getting the
0:23:05very first you know iteration of this
0:23:08product from Apple we have to wait like
0:23:10five years for it to get you know really
0:23:11good or whatever and it's like we're
0:23:15much farther behind today than we would
0:23:17be if if they had gotten a clue about
0:23:20this cloud stuff so speaking of getting
0:23:23a clue the money diagram and the iCloud
0:23:26introduction again Gruber wrote about
0:23:29this correctly thinking the most
0:23:30important thing they showed him that he
0:23:32note was the slide where it showed the
0:23:35Mac which was previously described as
0:23:36the digital hub like the place where you
0:23:38connected all your stuff your grammar
0:23:39ibutton stuff like that was demoted from
0:23:42its place as the hub at the center of
0:23:44this diagram lower down to be just
0:23:46another device in the bottom they had
0:23:48iPods laptops and the Mac right and then
0:23:51what they put in its place it at the you
0:23:53know the hub thing was you know iCloud a
0:23:55big metal cloud looking thing and then
0:24:01Jobs if you would listen to it's not any
0:24:04of the previous shows where I talked
0:24:05about their online services and compared
0:24:07to Google where Google's things like
0:24:08server canonical where the source of
0:24:10truth is on the current is on the server
0:24:12Steve Jobs literally said on stage that
0:24:15cloud is the source of truth you know
0:24:16that source of truth things like
0:24:18technical you know a term of art for the
0:24:20people influencing this stuff and he's
0:24:21probably been embroiled in it enough to
0:24:23have picked up that term to start
0:24:25talking about it but
0:24:26yeah that's what he said was that the
0:24:27cloud is the source and everything else
0:24:29is you know subordinate to that and it
0:24:31sounds like exactly what Google does and
0:24:32it sounds exactly like what I have been
0:24:35asking for and the other thing that
0:24:36again
0:24:37I think Gruber noted this first and I
0:24:39picked it up as well later sessions was
0:24:40that throughout this entire thing where
0:24:42he would say here's the cloud here's
0:24:43your devices follow blah he did not say
0:24:45the S word sync he didn't say and your
0:24:48document sync from the cloud down to all
0:24:50your devices or and your and you you
0:24:52know put something here and it syncs up
0:24:53to the cloud to say it's ask anyone
0:24:55who's in this industry to talk about
0:24:57this cloud stuff they will say the S
0:24:59word at some point right and it seemed
0:25:02like he was consciously avoiding it
0:25:05because all of us were listening waiting
0:25:06for him to say that and he wouldn't he
0:25:07would pick a different we like it's
0:25:08updated from or pushed to or you know
0:25:10whatever they was like almost awkward
0:25:11like he was working around it and in
0:25:13fact many people who he did eventually
0:25:15say sync because this is very difficult
0:25:16to talk about this without saying sync
0:25:18but the way he spoke about it was clear
0:25:20he was trying not that we just slipped
0:25:21up why why do you think it's important
0:25:23not to say that well I'm I'm not sure
0:25:28why I did eventually get it confirmed
0:25:31from various sources that the Apple
0:25:34message is try not to say sync right and
0:25:38I think why they're not saying they
0:25:39didn't give reasoning they just said
0:25:40that yes that is actually a thing it's
0:25:41not your imagination you're not going
0:25:42crazy across the you know Steve can get
0:25:45away with saying is who's going to yell
0:25:46it when he slips up but anyway the thing
0:25:48about sync is that sync is hard think
0:25:51it's difficult to implement and people's
0:25:53experience with sync especially on the
0:25:55Mac is not good like I sync doesn't have
0:25:57a good rep that Mac's sync with that
0:25:59stupid conflict dialogue where you got
0:26:00to pick something based on you know you
0:26:02don't enough information to pick
0:26:03sometimes you just see a big hex top of
0:26:04the right left side you have to pick
0:26:06like that sync you know or you try to
0:26:07sync and you like double your contacts
0:26:09or screw something up you know it's got
0:26:12a bad rap it's a bad word people don't
0:26:15like to hear that you know mmm and and
0:26:17the thing and the reason and this is not
0:26:19like just Apple screwing it up that
0:26:20doesn't hurt but you know sync is just
0:26:23hard period you know not everyone can
0:26:26agree on what the right thing to do in a
0:26:28situation where you have multiple
0:26:29changes to something that are all
0:26:31scattered throughout time like what is
0:26:32if you got to ruin people and say what
0:26:34should this look like they can't even
0:26:35agree so how the hell can you implement
0:26:36something in a computer program when
0:26:38people can't even agree with
0:26:39right thing to do is and this is like a
0:26:41formula for bad user experience you know
0:26:43one that when the mental model of the
0:26:45user does not match the computer model
0:26:46the user perceives that is bad user
0:26:48interface so if the user thinks X should
0:26:50happen and the computer has different
0:26:52model it makes Y happen the user is
0:26:54pissed off and like I said people are
0:26:56going to all have different agreements
0:26:57you can never make a computer model of
0:26:59sync where everyone will agree with it
0:27:01you know everyone will agree with with
0:27:02the results and and the thing is like if
0:27:07you if you throw this problem at a
0:27:08computer scientist or you know cuz those
0:27:10are the people implementing it and you
0:27:11tell them to do synced like alright well
0:27:12you know what they'll do something like
0:27:14you know for this version control but in
0:27:16software that's that's a you know all
0:27:18about sync of taking change from one
0:27:20person another person merging them
0:27:22together and stuff like that
0:27:23but if you were to implement that in a
0:27:25straightforward way things that things
0:27:28that like are considered clean merges in
0:27:31a version control system for example a
0:27:32clean the you know three-way merge which
0:27:34is software developer can understand and
0:27:36understand why I got there and
0:27:37implemented and so on and so forth
0:27:39regular people have no idea what the
0:27:41hell through emerges so you can get
0:27:43things like we have a single document
0:27:44like a single text file that's updated
0:27:45by several different people in several
0:27:47different locations across time
0:27:48something that is technically speaking a
0:27:51clean merge of all those changes will
0:27:53result in from the users perspective a
0:27:56nonsensical document that never existed
0:27:58in that state in any one place so as far
0:28:00as they're concerned like what do you
0:28:01mean this is a clean merge of my changes
0:28:02I never saw this document in front of me
0:28:04when I went into this other computer I
0:28:06loaded my document up and what I saw
0:28:08there was not what I saw on computer a
0:28:09not wanting so I've had it but some
0:28:11weird conglomerate that I don't like but
0:28:13on the other hand things like you know
0:28:14not documents with records like a
0:28:16contact people want mergers there
0:28:18because like I added the guys telephone
0:28:20number here and then when I saw them in
0:28:21you know in person I added his email
0:28:23address on my iPod and then on my Mac I
0:28:25want to see those things merged right
0:28:26right so it's just it's really hard to
0:28:29get to get sync right on this and I
0:28:33think that's why they wanted to avoid
0:28:34the word and in the implementation of
0:28:37octa which they didn't go into and
0:28:38unfortunately I can't go into it because
0:28:39it was NDA let's just say it operates in
0:28:44practice a little bit differently than
0:28:47that diagram I guess I can't what kind
0:28:50of discuss about that
0:28:53yeah I guess I can talk about so in in
0:28:55the keynote he was saying that the
0:28:57server is a source of truth but all of
0:28:59his discussion of I clouds especially
0:29:01documents in the cloud and stuff like
0:29:02that later in the thing where he's
0:29:04showing diagrams with pictures moving
0:29:06using the cloud and the devices it was
0:29:08all about documents travelling between
0:29:09devices he would always say things like
0:29:11I think this is a direct quote that have
0:29:13my notices iCloud pushes documents to
0:29:15users devices automatically so that
0:29:19sounds fine everything is like well he's
0:29:20avoiding saying the words think he's
0:29:21just saying push but let's get back to
0:29:23you know my thing where I talk about
0:29:24Google's model where the server is
0:29:25canonical Google doesn't talk in those
0:29:29terms Google doesn't push anything
0:29:30anywhere your document never leaves the
0:29:34server like your Google Docs thing it's
0:29:36your document is in the cloud you see it
0:29:38when you view it on an application on
0:29:40one of your devices when you bring up a
0:29:42web browser on whatever device you have
0:29:43you are looking at the one and only copy
0:29:45of that document that is in the cloud
0:29:46versus the way Apple talks about it
0:29:49which is the the cloud pushes the
0:29:52document down to all the devices as in
0:29:54each document has a copy of that thing
0:29:56and your document is made in one place
0:29:58goes up to the cloud goes down to that
0:30:00device down to that device down to that
0:30:01device now it's kind of semantics it's
0:30:04like what's the difference between
0:30:05pushing the document from where I write
0:30:07it up to the cloud and then pushing it
0:30:08down to all of the other things versus
0:30:11oh it was always in the cloud and you're
0:30:12just viewing it there well when you view
0:30:13it obviously the bits of the document
0:30:15are coming down but like there is a
0:30:16technical difference like in theory I
0:30:19mean this is not practically speaking
0:30:20what goes on but in theory when you pull
0:30:22up a document in Google Docs it could
0:30:24just show you the first page of the
0:30:25document and the only bytes that were
0:30:26transferred from Google server to you is
0:30:27the first page but the mental model that
0:30:30Apple is proposing is that when you make
0:30:33a document on your Mac it gets pushed up
0:30:36to the cloud and when you pop fire up
0:30:37your iPad that document the whole thing
0:30:39gets pushed down and you open in a pages
0:30:41in your iPad and there's the whole
0:30:42document right it's not like you're
0:30:45using pages it's not a viewer app for a
0:30:47file that lives in the cloud pages is an
0:30:49application that opens local files and
0:30:51the iCloud magic makes that file you
0:30:53created they're also local over here you
0:30:54see what I'm saying it's like no it's
0:30:56Holly it's a little bit especially when
0:30:59you get to down to like the bits and
0:31:01bytes it's just the term of semantics
0:31:03it's just a question of semantics in
0:31:04just the words you use but I really
0:31:05think there's something there in term
0:31:06of how the two companies think about
0:31:08things in terms of like who owns the day
0:31:10that I you know and like how the
0:31:12importance of the server and stuff like
0:31:13that and the thing that occurs to me
0:31:17when I look at that diagram that's got
0:31:18the cloud at the top and devices on the
0:31:20bottom is it the shape of that diagram
0:31:22is artificial the cloud top the the
0:31:25documents on the bottom like a big
0:31:27triangle you know whether the the cloud
0:31:29is the source of truth say I think if
0:31:32you take all the items in a diagram and
0:31:34rearrange them there's nothing about the
0:31:37cloud that makes it well there is so
0:31:39there are some things but nothing that
0:31:41makes it special like it's more of a
0:31:43peer-to-peer relationship than it is a
0:31:45googles thing where the server has your
0:31:47document right it's more of a p2p thing
0:31:50and it's especially true because they
0:31:51talk about land sink which obviously
0:31:52Dropbox does like if you have two
0:31:54machines that have Dropbox and you put a
0:31:56new file in your Dropbox I you know you
0:31:59log on to your Dropbox on one computer
0:32:01and another computer has files that this
0:32:05one doesn't have this one hadn't been
0:32:06turned on in a while instead of copying
0:32:07those files down from Dropbox it will
0:32:09copy them over your land from your other
0:32:10Mac because it's a lot faster to get
0:32:12that document from the Mac that has it
0:32:13been through all with the Dropbox
0:32:14servers you know what I mean now most
0:32:17people wouldn't say that Dropbox is
0:32:18peer-to-peer but right does that you
0:32:20know they call it land syncing right so
0:32:21in the relationship in that diagram if
0:32:25you turn on your iPad and it hasn't been
0:32:28turned on for a while and your Mac in
0:32:29the other room has a new version of some
0:32:31document your iPad is not going to go to
0:32:33iCloud and ask it for that document it's
0:32:35going to get it directly from the Mac
0:32:37over there over your LAN at least that
0:32:39was a sudden thing like it so it seems
0:32:40more peer-to-peer than it is server
0:32:44canonical Google type thing right and
0:32:46technologically speaking there are
0:32:48details now that I can't go into whether
0:32:50that really is the case but just from
0:32:52from the diagram it's you know obviously
0:32:56the iCloud is a special peer it's not
0:32:58the same as all the other peers but it
0:32:59seems almost kind of peer to peer
0:33:00especially since the documents always
0:33:02moving around it's not like they live
0:33:03them on the cloud we look at them
0:33:05they're moving around you know and again
0:33:08there are more technical details that
0:33:09but I'd only go into it our first
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0:33:45um so mobile me mold me is dead Steve
0:33:49Nannes pretty much gone right and it'll
0:33:52continue people can continue to use it
0:33:55to a certain degree all of the fine my
0:33:58Mac or Find My iPhone iPod stuff will
0:34:02continue to work but how do you feel for
0:34:05the poor people who thought wow in
0:34:07advance of iCloud I better sign up for
0:34:09that MobileMe account bought one yeah
0:34:11they can get refunds through some
0:34:12process and everyone's getting extended
0:34:14to like 2012 June or something you know
0:34:18but the thing about isn't in the keynote
0:34:20he put that up on the stage and he
0:34:23described iCloud at a high-level term
0:34:24and he said you know well how can you
0:34:27trust this isn't this from the same
0:34:28company that brought us mobile me you
0:34:31know which is usually you don't hear
0:34:32Apple saying that a product that existed
0:34:3510 seconds ago is a piece of crap but
0:34:37that's basically what they do you know
0:34:38sometimes they'll crap on their products
0:34:40that were from years ago and say bad
0:34:41things about them but the old me was
0:34:42like right up until that keynote started
0:34:44it was their one and only you know it
0:34:46online service is offering and then in
0:34:48that keynote they just he just threw it
0:34:49under the bus right right that was a big
0:34:51laugh line in the keynote right because
0:34:52you know it's shocking to hear him say
0:34:54something like that only Steve Jobs can
0:34:56get away was saying something like that
0:34:57and we all kind of agree and it's funny
0:34:59but then he went on not to really answer
0:35:03that question you know how can you trust
0:35:04his company brought your mobile me and
0:35:05we got the laughs and it's like alright
0:35:06so how can we we kind of tried to answer
0:35:09but like what boil down to is like trust
0:35:12us we got to right this time we you know
0:35:14that I guess the answer was we screwed
0:35:17up so bad we scribbs so bad the first
0:35:19time we won't make that mistake well
0:35:21that was the third time charm but like
0:35:23by them publicly acknowledging how awful
0:35:26MobileMe was it was reassuring us that
0:35:28yes we understand that we screwed up
0:35:30we're not under the deluge
0:35:31that we did just fine before and it's
0:35:33just you know your fault for not
0:35:34understanding our grand vision and why
0:35:36your people whose complaint like so
0:35:37showing that they understood like us
0:35:39what was wrong with MobileMe was
0:35:41supposed to give us the faith that they
0:35:43would do something better and it did
0:35:44help a little bit but there was no like
0:35:47well let me tell you exactly why it's
0:35:48going to be different this time so in
0:35:51terms of the iCloud stuff you know we'll
0:35:55see again maybe fourth time is the charm
0:35:56but the questions I have for mobile
0:35:58media though aren't answered anywhere
0:36:00that I found I've been trying to read on
0:36:01it as much as I could in between doing
0:36:02stuff but what about stuff like
0:36:06galleries that you put up from iPhoto or
0:36:09I websites you know what about the iWeb
0:36:11application all that business where does
0:36:14that stuff go because I have I have
0:36:15stuff back from you know dotmac homepage
0:36:17and then I have I web pages and I do
0:36:19have you know I photo galleries and I
0:36:21mean I forgot again to the iPhoto
0:36:23application right so what's going to
0:36:25happen to that stuff does that stay up
0:36:26there forever is it get decommissioned
0:36:28after you know June 30th 2012 and Hubble
0:36:31me goes away what happens if you tried
0:36:34in iPhoto try to say you know upload
0:36:36this I you know this MobileMe gallery
0:36:37thing does it not work does it say sorry
0:36:39even though you have this program and it
0:36:41used to do this MobileMe is actually
0:36:43gone now so tough luck right and by the
0:36:45way if you have pictures there they're
0:36:46all gone no answers for that so far
0:36:48judging by how they decommissioned Mac
0:36:50homepage I'm I don't have great hope
0:36:52that they're going to help us preserve
0:36:53our stuff in any particular way so it's
0:36:55kind of depressing at least iWeb I think
0:36:56you can export it to an FTP server and I
0:36:58think you're an exporter does local HTML
0:37:00or something like that so you won't lose
0:37:01your stuff but I don't know we're gonna
0:37:03use for the equivalent that because the
0:37:04reason I use iWeb which is an awful
0:37:06awful program you should never use it by
0:37:07the way but the reason I use it is
0:37:09because it integrates our my family
0:37:11rather use it as integrates with the
0:37:13iLife applications and someone who
0:37:15doesn't know any HTML can just drag a
0:37:16bunch of images out write a little blog
0:37:18post and you know and put it on its way
0:37:20I think my wife in particular now has
0:37:23more than enough skills to be able to
0:37:25use like a flash uploader like you do
0:37:27when you know Shutterfly or facebook or
0:37:28whatever to do the same thing but we're
0:37:30back when we started doing this it was
0:37:31just easier to say all right you know
0:37:33how iPhoto works well here's all your
0:37:34iPhoto stuff and just drag it onto the
0:37:35page versus using one of those stupid
0:37:37uploader things you know so I'll be kind
0:37:40of sad to see the idea of an application
0:37:42like iWeb go away and I'm just
0:37:45is this a guarantee that iWeb is going
0:37:48away I mean I just assumed I mean like
0:37:50it's hosted on mobile me hosting and no
0:37:52part of the iCloud offering was like and
0:37:54we'll host web pages for you like they
0:37:55never said that at any point you know so
0:37:58there were there were a lot and a lot of
0:38:00people have emailed us or asked on
0:38:03Twitter you know what what is going to
0:38:04happen with that I did dug up early on
0:38:06that little article from Apple that
0:38:09basically said you know this is good for
0:38:11another couple months but it doesn't
0:38:13doesn't really answer any of those
0:38:14questions do you think that the number
0:38:16of people that were actually just using
0:38:18those services whether it's iWeb or
0:38:21whatever kind of hosting that there just
0:38:23weren't enough people doing it to matter
0:38:25to Apple that that they felt like well
0:38:28it you know
0:38:28only few people use it so we can get rid
0:38:30of it well I think they just want clean
0:38:32breaks like their apples always big
0:38:33about the clean break and I certainly
0:38:35disdain the job show for mobile me he
0:38:38wants that out of his sight out of mind
0:38:40stops like yeah I firstly yeah you're
0:38:42right I don't think there are a lot of
0:38:43people using I don't think there are a
0:38:44lot of people using mobile me period and
0:38:45is even a smaller fraction was using
0:38:47these particular services and they've
0:38:48already shown with that Mac home page
0:38:50when they decommission that they don't
0:38:51mind telling people like you got six
0:38:53months to get your crap out of there and
0:38:54then we're just gonna take it offline we
0:38:55don't care where you go but you can't
0:38:56stay here you know that they did that
0:38:59with that and with moldy homepage or
0:39:01with Mac homepage I think they're gonna
0:39:02do the same thing with with mobile meat
0:39:04but the jury's still out because I
0:39:05haven't said anything one way or the
0:39:06other and they have you know until June
0:39:082012 to decide what they're gonna do so
0:39:10maybe the most likely they haven't even
0:39:11decided yet you know this one the next
0:39:15site about iCloud iCloud is free it was
0:39:18a phrase used often he was the big
0:39:20keynote transition with the big giant
0:39:21free word comes down and smashes the $99
0:39:24from mobile mates and you get you know
0:39:27email contacts and calendar syncing for
0:39:28everybody for free how Lou you because
0:39:31Tom Mac and MobileMe were so horrible we
0:39:33had to pay $99 a year and you can add an
0:39:35additional email address for like 10
0:39:37bucks a year which is insane
0:39:38anyway 10 dollars for an email address
0:39:40right but then that person wouldn't be
0:39:42able to sync their email contacts and
0:39:44calendar there would only Stoney be one
0:39:46eye disk you know so like well you know
0:39:47so I could sink my stuff but my wife
0:39:49could unless we bought the family plan
0:39:50which is like 150 bucks it was just all
0:39:52it was like in a fantasy land
0:39:54right but when he said iCloud is free I
0:39:57remember thinking
0:39:58tweeting at the time like you know uh
0:40:01Apple thinks iCloud is so good they're
0:40:03gonna make you pay for you know and I
0:40:04kept waiting for the other shoe to drop
0:40:05and so they went through this whole
0:40:06thing of like well there's three other
0:40:07apps and then three more apps and
0:40:08there's documents in the cloud and also
0:40:10stuff but I was like no Apple has to get
0:40:12paid right then I couldn't do anything
0:40:13out of the goodness of their heart there
0:40:15has to you know it's not charity and it
0:40:17doesn't do ad supported stuff and at
0:40:18some point they explicitly said on by
0:40:20the way in our mail there's no ads like
0:40:22so sticking it to Google you know now
0:40:24it's not ad supported isn't it and we're
0:40:27telling you all this stuff is free how
0:40:29are they going to get money right and
0:40:31finally the very very end and I thought
0:40:32it was super clever because I did not
0:40:34predict this the way the way they're
0:40:36going to get paid to say iCloud is free
0:40:38but you know what cost 25 bucks a year
0:40:40iTunes Match right and they give it a
0:40:42different name and it's like well it's
0:40:45it's vaguely related to iCloud but no
0:40:47iCloud is free you see iTunes Match is
0:40:49$25 but items matches you know it's so
0:40:51incredibly attractive because they are
0:40:52the only company that did the deals with
0:40:54the record companies it's like legal
0:40:55free and clear and by the way we'll
0:40:57upload all your crazy music that we
0:40:59can't match which was my big concern I
0:41:01thought there's no way in hell they
0:41:02would do that I don't know how they song
0:41:03that was I was like how how is iTunes
0:41:05Match going to help me because I have
0:41:07things like you know anime soundtracks
0:41:09are like video game music remixes that
0:41:12are never ever ever going to be on the
0:41:15iTunes music store and they are never
0:41:16gonna Majan that's what I listen to a
0:41:18lot of the time these really obscure
0:41:19things that you know nobody else likes
0:41:21slow you know knows about or has up in a
0:41:24store somewhere is it just like a sound
0:41:26of modem connecting or something they
0:41:28listen to you don't well you're not
0:41:31you're not a really a video gamer but if
0:41:32you're a gamer you have emotional
0:41:34connections to theme songs from video
0:41:36games I can count I'm on the same page
0:41:38right and so so piece are you listened
0:41:41to like the Frogger scene theme song or
0:41:43dying or something well you start from
0:41:45that premise of like you know the 8-bit
0:41:46music with the bleeps and the boobs and
0:41:47then people do remixes or orchestral
0:41:50arrangements or combinations like that
0:41:51leo C remix that I think is org letter
0:41:54oh the literacy it stands for
0:41:56overclocked remix org is a website
0:41:58that's just filled with videogame
0:41:59remixes and anime soundtracks like
0:42:02you're watching anime that you like
0:42:03there you have interesting soundtracks
0:42:04in the Mario or even just things like
0:42:06movie soundtracks iTunes doesn't have
0:42:07everything and they have you know
0:42:08whatever 18 million songs they don't
0:42:09have everything but if you couldn't
0:42:11listen to like say
0:42:12that's what you're into this week and
0:42:14you listen to you know a new soundtrack
0:42:15or new but remix or even like you know
0:42:16there's illegal mashups you find online
0:42:18from the best of Booty and stuff like
0:42:19that they're not going to be on iTunes
0:42:21or because they're all completely
0:42:21illegal but they're great some weeks
0:42:23that's what I'm listening to right so if
0:42:25iTunes Match had no solution to that it
0:42:26wouldn't be very good well they're gonna
0:42:28upload that for you too
0:42:29you know so they will not upload the
0:42:32stuff they can match that's that was the
0:42:33big selling point you don't have to
0:42:34spend a week uploading of course
0:42:35wouldn't take me a week over FiOS but
0:42:37for regular people it's going to take
0:42:38them a long time to jam all their
0:42:39information online
0:42:40they said no Apple will just scan your
0:42:42stuff match it and say or I found that
0:42:44down there yeah we've got that for you
0:42:45in the cloud found that down there
0:42:46you've got the 40 on the cloud and the
0:42:48stuff they didn't find they'll just
0:42:49upload those 10 songs so it is
0:42:51incredibly attractive offer to get any
0:42:52music you buy anywhere any music you
0:42:55ripped from your CDs anything anywhere
0:42:57in your iTunes library you can listen to
0:42:58everywhere
0:43:00and you just give us 25 bucks a year so
0:43:02it's recurring revenue I'm sure out of
0:43:04that 25 bucks the record companies are
0:43:06getting paid Apple's getting paid I
0:43:08don't think it's covering their costs
0:43:10but I think they finally have have come
0:43:13become good come to peace becomes a
0:43:17terms with the idea that online is gonna
0:43:21be a bit of a cost center for them okay
0:43:23I remember talking to somebody that
0:43:24mobled me way back when when I wrote
0:43:25some some really nasty thing about
0:43:26mobile me because it was pissing me off
0:43:28and someone from the MobileMe team was
0:43:30talking to me and I asked does the
0:43:33MobileMe team have to make money like
0:43:35are they responsible for you know profit
0:43:38and loss or whatever now there was that
0:43:40fortune story recently that said that
0:43:41people inside Apple are not responsible
0:43:45for profit and loss really within the
0:43:46departments but it's still an awareness
0:43:48of like are you expected to make money
0:43:50like at the end of the day like or you
0:43:52know and the MobileMe guy said yeah
0:43:54we're you know we're expected to like
0:43:56cover our costs you know it's not again
0:43:58it's not a charity right but that five
0:44:01hundred million dollar datacenter and
0:44:02all the bandwidth and all the stuff like
0:44:04that there's no way I can show this away
0:44:06maybe I don't know what their numbers
0:44:08are like do they think enough people are
0:44:10gonna sign up for iTunes Match at 25
0:44:12bucks a year that's going to pay for
0:44:13whatever they have to pay to all the
0:44:15record labels plus cover all their
0:44:16hosting costs for the free iCloud I
0:44:18don't know I haven't done the math on it
0:44:20it doesn't it seems to you like it's not
0:44:22enough money oh it's definitely oh it's
0:44:24definitely not enough
0:44:25money but here so here's a question but
0:44:27something I just want to address and see
0:44:29if you know the answer if you've been
0:44:31able to deduce the answer and that is
0:44:33let's say you do this iTunes Match right
0:44:37you pay your twenty five bucks yep
0:44:40let's say you've got I don't know if I
0:44:43what's a reasonable amount of gigs of
0:44:45music to have five ten I don't know say
0:44:47today it stands one twenty twenty yeah
0:44:50so you go through and you you you go
0:44:53through and it finds data you know it
0:44:55finds says oh I I can get 85% of that
0:44:59you pay your twenty five bucks now
0:45:01you've got you know whatever it is
0:45:03fifteen gigs are more in the cloud now
0:45:06you can download that to your iPad you
0:45:08can download that to your iPhone your
0:45:09other Mac's right all from the cloud and
0:45:11then you're actually maybe even getting
0:45:13higher bitrate higher quality music than
0:45:16you might have ripped it yeah I forgot
0:45:17to mention that yeah they also you know
0:45:19they match the song they're not matching
0:45:21the file so if you have a crappy version
0:45:23of a song they've got a better one they
0:45:24let you listen to that right so you may
0:45:26have ripped it at 64 for uh you know who
0:45:29knows 128 who knows what you did right
0:45:31and they're gonna know we'll give you
0:45:32this high-quality one so here's the
0:45:34question let's say that the Year comes
0:45:36up and you say ah I can't afford it or I
0:45:38don't want to renew or I'm not really
0:45:39using this you keep those tracks right
0:45:42or do they go away do they get taken for
0:45:45good you keep which tracks alright with
0:45:47256 is yeah are they still in in the
0:45:50iCloud for you are they still in your
0:45:52iCloud are they still stand down on your
0:45:54devices and they're yours once you get
0:45:57them I'll have to try that I haven't
0:45:59because I haven't actually tried it yet
0:46:01but here's my thing about like the
0:46:02previous discussion about what iCloud
0:46:04actually does that it's actually making
0:46:06a date the data move around between your
0:46:07devices versus we've got one copy of
0:46:10your data it's in the cloud and you can
0:46:12view it or stream it from that location
0:46:14now I would imagine that it's going to
0:46:18send you like you know the whole 256
0:46:21kilobyte AAC file right like if for
0:46:24example if you were to go on to a brand
0:46:25new device you just bought an iPhone and
0:46:27you you know start listening to music
0:46:28and iCloud it's not gonna be streaming
0:46:30it from iCloud you know it's kind of
0:46:31eventually I would assume copy all those
0:46:34songs down to your I'm just again I'm
0:46:36just speculating but like based on how
0:46:38document
0:46:39in the cloud everything else works it
0:46:40seems to me that no I wouldn't say that
0:46:43like iTunes Match has to be necessarily
0:46:45anyway related to documents in the cloud
0:46:46but just based on their idea of like
0:46:48pushing document between it seems like
0:46:49you would have the file and it's DRM
0:46:51free and I suppose they could try to
0:46:53yank it away from you but I don't think
0:46:56so I think everything that happens stays
0:46:58and I think if you were to stop paying
0:47:00all you would lose is that now when you
0:47:02buy a song in your iPhone it doesn't
0:47:03suddenly appear on your Mac like that's
0:47:04what you're losing right right you're
0:47:05losing that synchronization so it's not
0:47:07so much about you know because you you
0:47:10already had the rights to that one song
0:47:11like even if it wasn't something in the
0:47:13iTunes Store like assume you you ripped
0:47:14something from a CD that Apple doesn't
0:47:16own you know that's your song you could
0:47:18already put it on your iPhone your iPod
0:47:19your iPad you can already do that now
0:47:21right so it's not in something new
0:47:22you're getting all you're getting is the
0:47:23you don't have to do it manually you
0:47:25don't have to synchronize all your stuff
0:47:27and copy it around and it will go
0:47:28through this intermediary point and do
0:47:30it for you so I'm assuming you keep all
0:47:31that stuff and and if they upgraded you
0:47:33I'm assuming you keep the upgrades but
0:47:35we're all just guessing it's they'd have
0:47:38to be able to keep them it's just it
0:47:40just seems like the way Apple does
0:47:41things is we copy your stuff around from
0:47:44place to place not we have one copy of
0:47:46it that you can access sometimes then we
0:47:47take away your access right so that that
0:47:50transitions nicely into what iCloud is
0:47:52not doing and what I Khaled is
0:47:54definitely not doing I don't remember
0:47:55this is in the keynote it's just in my
0:47:57notes but one thing is the only not
0:47:59doing is storing all your data so for
0:48:01example it is not backing all your stuff
0:48:05up right even though they said it'll be
0:48:07backups for your iPhone and if you lose
0:48:08your phone just go to a new phone typing
0:48:10username password and all your stuff is
0:48:12there when they say all your stuff like
0:48:15if you look at the size of your iTunes
0:48:16backup you know your iphones backup in
0:48:18itunes like look you know it's in i
0:48:20don't know somewhere into like you know
0:48:22library application support something or
0:48:24other music whatever the backups are
0:48:26only a couple hundred Meg's because
0:48:27they're not making a separate copy of
0:48:29all your music because that's already in
0:48:30your iTunes library they're not making a
0:48:31separate copy of all the iPhoto stuff
0:48:33that sync there but that's already the
0:48:34iPhoto library they're only backing out
0:48:36basically your apps and whatever
0:48:37application specific data you happen to
0:48:39have in your phone that's not actually a
0:48:40lot so when they say they're backing up
0:48:42your phone they're not like they're only
0:48:46backing it up enough to restore its
0:48:48state to the way it was so I I doubt
0:48:51they're you know for example they're not
0:48:52backing out
0:48:52all the iTunes music that's on your
0:48:54phone because that would be gigantic
0:48:55because they know they can get that
0:48:56again down from you know they can get it
0:48:58from synchronizing through your Mac up
0:49:00through the cloud down to your other
0:49:01thing or through iTunes Match or any
0:49:03other type of service alright and for
0:49:05the Mac stuff forget it they're
0:49:06certainly not letting you shove all your
0:49:09iPhoto library up there and I think most
0:49:11people's Macs iPhoto library is the
0:49:12largest consumer of disk space that's
0:49:14certainly true online you know because
0:49:16that photo stream thing they have that
0:49:18only stores photos for 30 days and the
0:49:21synchronizing down stuff then only
0:49:22synchronize a thousand of those for the
0:49:24latest a thousand photos down to your
0:49:26iPad and your iPhone and your Apple TV
0:49:28so if your Mac blows up and you didn't
0:49:31have a backup
0:49:32your crap is not an iCloud it's not
0:49:34you're not saved by a Glock you don't
0:49:35buy a new Mac plug it and put in your
0:49:36iCloud information and get all your
0:49:37stuff back you absolutely do not unless
0:49:39I guess you have less than thousand
0:49:41photos all of which have been taking the
0:49:42last 30 days you know what I mean the
0:49:44thing that you're really Sol at that
0:49:46point yes so that's listening to this
0:49:48don't assume iCloud stopped you still
0:49:50have to do backups goals do you think
0:49:52that will change do you think that will
0:49:53change do you think that they'll they'll
0:49:55have an add-on whether it's five bucks
0:49:56or whatever I mean they'll have
0:49:58something that says yeah all you have to
0:49:59you have to charge for that I think
0:50:01right now they're pushing they want
0:50:02adoption and like he was saying we want
0:50:04to make it free so everybody will use it
0:50:05now there is a five gigabyte limit on
0:50:07stuff in the cloud and that only that
0:50:09includes things like mail documents and
0:50:10and backups but not like again they mean
0:50:13your phone backups the backup of just
0:50:14the minimum amount of stuff they need to
0:50:16restore your phone when they can get the
0:50:17other stuff from other locations but
0:50:19that five gigabytes does not include
0:50:21photo streams so it doesn't include your
0:50:2230 days for the photos it does not
0:50:24include purchased music I don't know if
0:50:26that extra adjective there means that it
0:50:29does include music so you didn't buy
0:50:30through the iTunes store does that count
0:50:32towards your quota I don't know doesn't
0:50:33include it doesn't include purchase
0:50:35music apps or books so those all do not
0:50:37count towards your quota so maybe
0:50:39possibly your unpurchased music counts
0:50:40towards your quota but the thing is that
0:50:42five gig limit even though they didn't
0:50:43say is in the keynote very quickly from
0:50:45you know press and various other people
0:50:46asking Apple Apple was pretty open and
0:50:49saying you will be able to pay for more
0:50:52space we just haven't decided and
0:50:54pricing it and of course I'll say but
0:50:56it'll be very competitive and blah blah
0:50:57blah so even the a they're not backing
0:51:01up your stuff and B the stuff they are
0:51:03letting you put on there has a 5 gig
0:51:04limit and you have to pay
0:51:06if you want more than that now I don't
0:51:07know if it'll be like a monthly thing or
0:51:09yearly or what it'll be like but it's
0:51:10kind of like Dropbox you know where if
0:51:12you can stay under the cap it's free if
0:51:13you go over you got to pay and I just
0:51:16want to see what their pricing is gonna
0:51:17be like on that but let's just reiterate
0:51:18this I mean you kind of set it the
0:51:20people who I think we're thinking or
0:51:22hoping that iCloud was going to be the
0:51:25Dropbox killer it Dropbox really doesn't
0:51:28have anything to be concerned about at
0:51:30this point because the only way that you
0:51:32can store data from an application on
0:51:35iCloud is if that application supports
0:51:39and uses the iCloud API to do that and
0:51:42what that means is if you're using
0:51:44anything and I work for example and that
0:51:46was the one they were talking about the
0:51:47most which is probably the only one that
0:51:49can do this right now in other words you
0:51:52launch pages you have iCloud set up you
0:51:56create a document it's just there it's
0:51:58up there on the cloud whenever you make
0:51:59a change it's pushed up there if you go
0:52:02grab your iPhone or your iPad and launch
0:52:04pages on that you'll see that new
0:52:06document if you make changes it's up on
0:52:09the cloud to you'll see those on your
0:52:10computer etc but in order to so it's not
0:52:13like Dropbox where that's just a folder
0:52:15what do you want to put in there put
0:52:16whatever you want in there organize it
0:52:18however you want to and it'll get synced
0:52:20up and down and everywhere that's
0:52:23Dropbox this is not like that you you
0:52:25don't have I'm sure somebody will
0:52:26eventually come up with some kind of app
0:52:28to do this but as it stands right now
0:52:31you don't have just a folder to throw
0:52:34stuff into you have an application which
0:52:36has its own understanding of files that
0:52:39it manages which it handles pushing up
0:52:42and pulling from the iCloud service yeah
0:52:46I think this is another example
0:52:47positioning because they definitely said
0:52:52we didn't want to just do a better I
0:52:53diss contrasting but they basically said
0:52:56we didn't want to make a big directory
0:52:58full of stuff that we synchronized now
0:52:59it's interesting that they said that
0:53:00because one of the reasons people love
0:53:04Dropbox I think is this their slogan or
0:53:06is this someone else who's talked about
0:53:07Dropbox but they're saying why did
0:53:08Dropbox succeed you know because they
0:53:10made maybe was Joel Spolsky you set all
0:53:12this like they didn't people didn't want
0:53:14like some really complicated thing they
0:53:16just wanted a folder that syncs its
0:53:18folder on my desktop I put stuff in it
0:53:20syncs and anytime I said yeah but what
0:53:22about this what about you know having
0:53:23ability to partition things off and
0:53:25share things involve law and eventually
0:53:27Dropbox did it some of those features
0:53:28but it's like no it's a folder that
0:53:29syncs period end of story
0:53:31it's simple people can understand
0:53:32folders and Dropbox has been wildly
0:53:34successful so I was interesting to hear
0:53:36Apple say we do not want to make you a
0:53:38folder that syncs despite the fact that
0:53:39the one product that makes you a
0:53:41brain-dead folder that syncs everybody
0:53:43loves it we're not making that right
0:53:44because they didn't want there to be
0:53:46some other thing that you learn Steve
0:53:47Jobs kept hammering home saying it's in
0:53:49the applications there's no new thing to
0:53:51learn you just have like a new button in
0:53:53your applications I think it's very
0:53:55smart and typically Apple where you know
0:53:58as simple as Dropbox is it's a folder
0:54:00that sync they know that there are a lot
0:54:03of people out there just don't
0:54:04understand folders period you know if it
0:54:06leaves there docker somehow they lose it
0:54:08on the desktop they don't know where the
0:54:09hell anything is anymore like no it's in
0:54:10your applications you know but you know
0:54:12what else you know what else this does
0:54:13is it also and maybe this is you have to
0:54:18think Apple thinks about this thing if
0:54:19you look at the average size of a Pages
0:54:22document now keynote is certainly going
0:54:25to be bigger but you know if you think
0:54:27about the size of your average pages or
0:54:29numbers documents they're not that big
0:54:31they're way different from what people
0:54:33are doing on Dropbox and in a way yeah
0:54:36you know they are doing a lot of things
0:54:39with music and iCloud but that's that's
0:54:41kind of a different story as far as just
0:54:44data like you could upload you know the
0:54:47ISO of some large game or operating
0:54:50system or whatever it was and and upload
0:54:53things to iCloud and just totally
0:54:54dominate the space even if you had to
0:54:56pay for it I just feel like Apple
0:54:58doesn't want to be in that business they
0:55:00want to say they want to create a
0:55:01service that's 100 percent supportive of
0:55:03us using their apps the way they
0:55:07envision us using them or a third party
0:55:09or a third party a party app a third
0:55:12party API but the thing I was getting at
0:55:13with positioning though yeah under the
0:55:15covers like bottom line it's not magic
0:55:19there's some directory somewhere with
0:55:21files from which they leave your
0:55:23computer and go up to the cloud you know
0:55:25what I mean
0:55:26like as you said someone thinking coming
0:55:28with an app like this there's a folder
0:55:30somewhere that syncs is what I'm saying
0:55:32right you know or multiple folders or
0:55:34what
0:55:34like there's no avoiding you know
0:55:35there's no magic happen here the file
0:55:37system Silla file system the trick is
0:55:39that users don't ever have to know or
0:55:42see that folder like it's invisible to
0:55:44them they never have to deal with it is
0:55:45not like Dropbox but but practically
0:55:48speaking the difference between Dropbox
0:55:49and I clouds file storage
0:55:51you know documents in the cloud and
0:55:53Dropbox is just tiny details of like
0:55:55what is the particular protocol that you
0:55:57use how do you do your diffs you know
0:56:00how do you deal with the data versus
0:56:02metadata stuff like that you know is it
0:56:04was actually an implementation very
0:56:06similar to Dropbox in terms of like the
0:56:08the high-level view of what actually
0:56:10happens you know about getting into the
0:56:12particular details but it's you know the
0:56:14genius of Apple is to figure out that
0:56:17it's not a technical problem it's a way
0:56:19of framing it and if we could just frame
0:56:21it in this different way the fact that
0:56:22the underlying implementation is broadly
0:56:24similar to Dropbox does not mean that we
0:56:26have to present a product that is
0:56:27anything like Dropbox and that was
0:56:30really smart I thought now the real
0:56:32thing that burned me in the the iCloud
0:56:34thing is that they went through that
0:56:37whole thing and still no didn't address
0:56:40in any way at all the problem that we
0:56:43talked about in the NOAA iLife is an
0:56:45island episode for the people who didn't
0:56:47hear that the basic idea is that when
0:56:48families use iLife you know the husband
0:56:51takes picture of the kid the wife takes
0:56:53a picture of the kid but the wife can't
0:56:56sync her iPhone wife's iPhone syncs to
0:56:58her computer but the husband's iPhone
0:56:59syncs to his computer but the iPhoto
0:57:00libraries on the husband's computer so
0:57:02then we had to copy the photos from the
0:57:03wife's computer to the husband's but if
0:57:04she made annotations on them there were
0:57:06eight of them that maybe those don't
0:57:07drink it's they're like silos of where
0:57:09you put stuff when when families take
0:57:11pictures there's like a family you know
0:57:13a family photo album that's not dad's
0:57:16photo well my mom thought well um so
0:57:17what happens when you have when you have
0:57:18these people who are the best customers
0:57:20of Apple who have multiple Macs in their
0:57:21house and everybody has a Mac right is
0:57:22that you know they their stuff is
0:57:26stranded where yeah on our particular
0:57:29thing and you have to end up like having
0:57:30if you're disciplined say okay dad's
0:57:32computer is the iPhoto computer and if
0:57:34you have any pictures anywhere
0:57:35everyone's iPods have to sync with dad's
0:57:36computer all on the same account and if
0:57:38you have any pictures on any of your
0:57:40cameras plug it into dad's computer and
0:57:42put them there and that will be our
0:57:43family I've you know finally iPhoto
0:57:45computer and that's not practical and
0:57:47it's stupid and it
0:57:48punishing apples backs customers now
0:57:49with the photostream thing is they're
0:57:51still in silos mom takes pictures of her
0:57:53kids and they instantly sync up to mom's
0:57:55iCloud and down to mom's iPhoto library
0:57:58dad takes pictures they go up to dance
0:57:59iCloud down to dad's iPhoto library you
0:58:01still have these silos of pictures and
0:58:02it's like no recognition of how real
0:58:05people in the real world are using their
0:58:06products their best customers
0:58:08oh so that really annoyed me I continue
0:58:11to wait for that like like I said in the
0:58:13show and when I first came out it's like
0:58:14yeah well it's obvious what they missed
0:58:16here is that there's no good way for
0:58:18families to use this but back then it
0:58:19was like well how many Macs are in the
0:58:20house not many people have multiple
0:58:21computers so and so forth but then
0:58:23version 2 came out in version 3 you know
0:58:25what over the years they were they
0:58:27skipped a couple years here and they're
0:58:28just version for what I don't know what
0:58:30number we're up to on my life but it is
0:58:31way way overdue to have that ability for
0:58:35either the iLife suite to work the way
0:58:37families do and it really hurts to have
0:58:39this brand new awesome cloud thing come
0:58:41out and still be stuck in silos like
0:58:42this was your opportunity to unify make
0:58:44a new version of my life that works with
0:58:45us have like a shared cloud you know but
0:58:48no still silos so I now continue to
0:58:51patiently wait for Apple to address the
0:58:53new my life is an island thing I have
0:58:55nothing particular to add about
0:58:56predictions of what that's going to come
0:58:58or not I will just continue to patiently
0:59:00wait as I have been for many years so
0:59:03the final thing I have an iCloud is that
0:59:04after all this stuff they said a lot of
0:59:07things that sounded right a lot of
0:59:10people were tweeting when it happened
0:59:11like this is exactly what John was
0:59:12talking about of the hyper creping with
0:59:15the cloud at the top and said the cloud
0:59:16is a source of truth like isn't that
0:59:17exactly what you were asking for as I
0:59:19hope I expressed before I think there is
0:59:21a disconnect between what Google does
0:59:25and what Apple was saying it does
0:59:27despite the fact that there are some
0:59:29underlying similarities this is a
0:59:31different philosophy and actually I
0:59:33think a different a little bit of a
0:59:34different technical reality going on
0:59:35here but aside from that it's clearly
0:59:38better than than the idea they had
0:59:40before which was this crappy hundred
0:59:42dollar thing with one account that
0:59:43didn't scale the families that's one
0:59:44thing I glad I was done at least give
0:59:45everyone you know their own contacts and
0:59:47email and stuff like that so I applaud
0:59:49them for that even if it's not exactly
0:59:51the model the Google uses and that I
0:59:52held up is the ideal situation but it
0:59:56all comes down to speed and reliability
0:59:58because you know the fourth
0:59:58because you know the fourth
1:00:00time there trying this you know this can
1:00:01all be great everything shoot can be you
1:00:03know the big data center say you you you
1:00:05love exactly how they describe that you
1:00:07want everything that works like that but
1:00:08if it's slow or unreliable or screws
1:00:10things up or you know eggs for example
1:00:12duplicates all your contacts or wipes
1:00:13them all out and you can't figure out
1:00:14what's going on because something's
1:00:16happening in a service you have no
1:00:17control of that's going to be a shame
1:00:19and I'm gonna say like 50 percent of
1:00:20this 50 percent of this at least is
1:00:22reliability speed and historically Apple
1:00:26has just not been good with those things
1:00:28and it's a lot of the reason why people
1:00:29like me like Google because you know the
1:00:32UI is clunky and sometimes it's ugly and
1:00:34they do weird things and there are ads
1:00:36but their servers are up there fast they
1:00:39scale it's not like Twitter where you
1:00:40know there was a dark period of three
1:00:41years where Gmail was constantly down no
1:00:43they Google has their act together in
1:00:45this regard and thus far Apple has not
1:00:47so I am I'm cautiously pessimistic let's
1:00:50say I'm still fearing the worst but
1:00:54there is hope so you know we'll just
1:00:56have to see what it's like you know I
1:00:57again I haven't actually used this thing
1:00:58I mean too busy don't need a new hope
1:01:00you would say is that safe to say you
1:01:02have a new hope I don't know if I would
1:01:05say that it also like thanks Shopify
1:01:09comm for making this show possible they
1:01:12are great supporter of hypercritical and
1:01:14our other shows Shopify is the absolute
1:01:16best way to sell anything online I for
1:01:19people who are designers you can go
1:01:21ahead and customize the whole thing with
1:01:22HTML and CSS and make it look exactly
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1:01:26designer and don't even want to mess
1:01:27with that stuff you can pick from one of
1:01:29their really awesome pre-designed themes
1:01:32it'll make your site look like someone
1:01:34spent a year making it awesome you can
1:01:37of course customize it later if you feel
1:01:39like it and this is a great thing it's
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1:01:42about managing SSL Certificates they do
1:01:45it all for you they just make it simple
1:01:46it's the easiest way to do it now
1:01:48normally they give you the first month
1:01:49free which is great do you think 30 days
1:01:52free to try it out that that's really
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1:02:10that's all got an iPod you know anything
1:02:12else on iCloud no you've you certainly
1:02:14covered it I mean I think it it really
1:02:16is something that for the average person
1:02:19not the Nerds like us and the people who
1:02:22listen to this show really but for the
1:02:24regular human beings who are going out
1:02:26there and buying a new computer and just
1:02:27want to use it and oh I this is really
1:02:30cool it just saves all my stuff up there
1:02:32and it's everywhere and oh that's great
1:02:34and they don't they don't really need to
1:02:36think about the details
1:02:37that's who Apple really has in mind they
1:02:39don't have us in mind for this I'm not
1:02:41saying that we won't use it or that it's
1:02:42not they don't think we'll like it but
1:02:45that they have the regular human beings
1:02:47in mind not they near the Nerds people
1:02:50who don't subscribe to mummies are the
1:02:52target audience for AI class because
1:02:53right people who don't know yes as they
1:02:56said from the people talking to the
1:02:57people the Apple stars mold me is a hard
1:02:58sell they do not sell a lot of copies of
1:03:00MobileMe who buys mold me in a deep do
1:03:02you subscribe to know me I was a mobile
1:03:05me subscriber for I guess about a year
1:03:09and just I hate to say it I just got fed
1:03:12up with it and it was too expensive and
1:03:14I realized that I could sink a lot of
1:03:17the same things that were important to
1:03:19me I really wasn't like a bookmark
1:03:20sinker that just wasn't me but I did
1:03:24like keeping the address-book stuff in
1:03:26sync and you know it really that's what
1:03:28I was mainly focusing on was that and I
1:03:31said you know what I can now address
1:03:33book support syncing with Google and I
1:03:36just synced with Google instead and it
1:03:38works great and it's been working great
1:03:40and I don't have to pay 99 bucks in a
1:03:42year even you're not using it but like
1:03:44you know I've been using it forever you
1:03:45know I would have gotten offered if I
1:03:46could but you know I think rivers still
1:03:48using it you know a lot of nerds Mac Big
1:03:51Mac nerds used MobileMe but iCloud is
1:03:53100% targeted the people who never could
1:03:56never be persuaded to pay $99.00
1:03:58basically the people you know smarter
1:03:59than us or you know like for example I
1:04:02so kept subscribing just because I use
1:04:03your Jimbo which is an application that
1:04:05no one has even heard of in like the
1:04:07regular world and it uses mobile need to
1:04:08synchronize across computers and I rely
1:04:10on that app so I would pay $99 just for
1:04:12that app alright as interesting to say
1:04:13what's gonna happen to that app I'm
1:04:15assume it will have to adopt the iCloud
1:04:16services but since iCloud is free and
1:04:18since I'm the one who doesn't have to do
1:04:20the development I
1:04:22wait patiently for bare bones to update
1:04:24your Jimbo for iCloud and I love it see
1:04:26I for the record I even though there
1:04:28well I don't know if they say if they
1:04:30advise against it but there's a certain
1:04:33way that you can use yo Jimbo with
1:04:35Dropbox there are some precautions that
1:04:39you need to take if you do it that way
1:04:40yeah yeah I know I've looked into that I
1:04:42just you know I do I don't I don't want
1:04:44to have to think about that but I do
1:04:45know I used to use it with the MobileMe
1:04:47yep and it's it's better with the
1:04:50MobileMe
1:04:51but we'll have to see alright so iOS 5
1:04:55on I get this through you have something
1:04:58to say about it you know you don't even
1:04:59have an iPhone you're right but I mean
1:05:02have a little bit it's not as long as
1:05:04the iCloud stuff that was the media but
1:05:05although there is some iCloud tie-in as
1:05:06well see what I've talked about but
1:05:07first the notifications so yeah so
1:05:10apples playing catch-up here everyone
1:05:12knows they're playing catch-up
1:05:14the thing about notifications and kind
1:05:16of the reason they took something so
1:05:17long I always thought was that you know
1:05:21that they can't Apple kind of paint
1:05:22itself into a corner with the iOS UI
1:05:24like they figured it out of the way
1:05:26everything is going to work like with
1:05:27iPhone one and with very few exceptions
1:05:30like they've stuck to that there's a
1:05:32little status bar top the application is
1:05:34down below
1:05:34you know there's tab bars navigation
1:05:36bars so on so forth as an on-screen
1:05:37keyboard no physical buttons except for
1:05:39the home button stuff like that but then
1:05:42you notice a bazillion apps the App
1:05:44Store is huge everybody loves it it's
1:05:46very successful but all those apps out
1:05:48there like there's no place to put a
1:05:50notifications UI you know so they put
1:05:52that big blue box over the screen but
1:05:53that's modal like it stops what
1:05:55everything's going on is it put the big
1:05:56blue box over the whole screen
1:05:57where are they going to find a place to
1:06:00put those notifications now palms webOS
1:06:02is you know often cited as having great
1:06:05notifications because they're the
1:06:08persistent they're easy to get to they
1:06:09have a they have a nice display and as
1:06:11actions available for each one and like
1:06:12you know especially back when Palm webOS
1:06:151.0 came out they were the king of
1:06:17notifications you know unified across
1:06:19all the different services and
1:06:21everything like that but webOS from day
1:06:25one was designed in a way that
1:06:27applications on webOS expect to be able
1:06:29to be squished like when the
1:06:31notification stuff comes up from the
1:06:33bottom of the topic can't remember or
1:06:34comes up on
1:06:35the applications display area gets
1:06:39squished and the application had to be
1:06:40aware of that and you know rejigger
1:06:42themselves to make sure their UI is
1:06:43still like if it's just a single screen
1:06:44or something make sure everything still
1:06:45works and stuff like that
1:06:46yeah but iOS apps aren't like that they
1:06:49expect to have from the status bar down
1:06:50sometimes not even the status bar what
1:06:53are you going to do for you I like how
1:06:55do you pull up the notifications they
1:06:56already use double tap on the one button
1:06:57they've got the triple tap the tap and
1:06:59hold they've used pretty much all those
1:07:01combinations that I've described for
1:07:02various things you know and the the
1:07:05volume buttons like what are you gonna
1:07:07use to bring up notifications and it was
1:07:10difficult to see where they were gonna
1:07:12go the status bar up top it's already
1:07:13filled with stuff you got the little
1:07:14compass icon for locations and your
1:07:17signal strength and the Wi-Fi indicator
1:07:18in little words 18 T or Verizon you know
1:07:21that's that's already kind of full and
1:07:23it's not a great tap target and already
1:07:25when you tap that target it's supposed
1:07:28to bring you to the you know the top of
1:07:29the documents right so and it would be
1:07:34too much to ask you know if you said if
1:07:36Apple said okay notifications are going
1:07:38to squish up from the bottom and now
1:07:39please rewrite all your apps to handle
1:07:40the fact that we're gonna squish your
1:07:41viewport now to be you know smaller than
1:07:44it was before
1:07:44right so the solution which I had to
1:07:47kind of chuckle at when can when I came
1:07:48up on the screen was how does a
1:07:50notification look because they didn't
1:07:51want to put the big blue blocks over
1:07:52your screen so they have the guy plan
1:07:54you know cut the rope during the the
1:07:57thing I said watch I'm going to San
1:07:59notification it's not going to interrupt
1:08:00them like so what the hell's is gonna be
1:08:02well they just take the top you know 16
1:08:05pixels or 48 pixels I don't know how big
1:08:07it is they just take the top stripe off
1:08:08the screen from the app and they steal
1:08:10it sorry app you're not getting those
1:08:11pixels anymore the OS taking them over
1:08:13and we rotate it around and we show your
1:08:14notification and the app still thinks
1:08:16it's displaying stuff there it's like
1:08:17doo-doo-doo I've got the whole screen
1:08:18and the OS is just simply stolen the
1:08:20pixels away from it
1:08:22I mean transiently obviously the the
1:08:24notification goes away and it can be
1:08:25dismissed but if I was playing a game
1:08:27and a notification came and look you can
1:08:29keep playing your game not if that thing
1:08:31just covered up like the next wave of
1:08:32enemies coming down in the little you
1:08:34know shooter game that I'm doing or I
1:08:36was doing I am conversation or an email
1:08:38and I just covered up the message from
1:08:39the guy that just came in you know what
1:08:41I mean now can't you get my
1:08:42understanding is that and I believe they
1:08:44showed this is you can choose what kind
1:08:46of note
1:08:47occasions you say maybe you can even
1:08:50chose choose what kind of notifications
1:08:52you receive per app perhaps yeah so
1:08:56putting controls on that is good but
1:08:58that's in the end that was their answer
1:09:00to like what if you want to see
1:09:02notifications like if your wife is
1:09:03calling you want it to interrupt
1:09:05whatever it is you're doing but nobody
1:09:07likes to blue boxes because they're just
1:09:09so heavyweight so they try to make a
1:09:10lighter weight so even if you had some
1:09:13fine grain control of what you allowed
1:09:14to go through this is this is the way in
1:09:16which you will be notified sort of
1:09:19asynchronously whenever a notification
1:09:21happens and how much less annoying it is
1:09:24you to you then the blue box will
1:09:26determine how much you want to do it but
1:09:28the second thing that your motivation is
1:09:29obviously is the big problem the blue
1:09:30box this is the exactly dismiss it or
1:09:32something they're gone there was no
1:09:33persistence which is just inexcusable so
1:09:35now they have a way to get your
1:09:37notifications persistently and again
1:09:39they have the question of how do you
1:09:40pull up the thing that shows my
1:09:41persistent notification so we have to go
1:09:42to the home screen and pick an app is it
1:09:44something in the DoubleTap multitasking
1:09:46thing that I have to scroll to the left
1:09:48like where the screen brightness and
1:09:49stuff is and you know the iPad or
1:09:51whatever their solution to that was
1:09:54swipe down from the top which as I
1:09:56understand I'm not an Android person but
1:09:58apparently us exactly what Android it's
1:09:59exactly what entrance yeah and the thing
1:10:01about that is that's a move that would
1:10:03definitely be better with a palm OS
1:10:05style palm OS with a palm style gesture
1:10:07area you know what I mean only has the
1:10:09gesture area in the bottom if the next
1:10:12iPhone had a gesture area where that
1:10:13blank black thing is where it's only
1:10:15housing the FaceTime camera right now
1:10:17and I guess the speaker for your ear
1:10:19they could put a gesture area in that
1:10:21black part to give you a little bit more
1:10:23runway for that gesture because again if
1:10:26you accidentally hit that status bar
1:10:27like you try to do a swipe but it
1:10:29registers that tap on the status bar you
1:10:30just zoom to the top of the document
1:10:31your reading in Safari or whatever they
1:10:33can piss you off
1:10:33and Marco actually added us an explicit
1:10:36featured instigator which is great where
1:10:37if you tap the top bar they say did you
1:10:40really mean to go to the top or do you
1:10:41want to go back to where you are and I
1:10:43blessed that feature every time it
1:10:44accidentally happen so I can imagine
1:10:46someone trying to look at the
1:10:47notifications real quick now you can use
1:10:50that top black area where the the
1:10:51FaceTime macrophage time camera is as
1:10:53your runway for swiping and that may
1:10:55help you do a clean swipe but it's not
1:10:57detecting your finger until it hits the
1:10:58status bar so this will have to see
1:11:00improv
1:11:01this how how much of a problem this
1:11:04actually is uh but I do think that there
1:11:07have been rumors of Apple adding gesture
1:11:08areas to their phones or whatever and
1:11:10that's the that's like the only place
1:11:12left on this device because I certainly
1:11:14don't want this all I don't want to add
1:11:15more buttons so what else can you add to
1:11:17this thing well they do have those black
1:11:19regions on the top and bottom that are
1:11:22currently mostly inert and they could
1:11:25make them sense touch in a way that like
1:11:28it's a nice to have but the phone
1:11:29doesn't rely on it and maybe you know
1:11:31maybe just helps with that particular
1:11:32gesture may tell them that don't that
1:11:33we're do that you say that but they'll
1:11:36never be there Never Say Never
1:11:37uh I mean there was the rumors of them
1:11:40ditching the home button and making it
1:11:42touch I think that is more crazy than
1:11:44adding gesture because the gesture area
1:11:45say you you never know it's there don't
1:11:47know it exists they could still use it
1:11:49in subtle ways to figure out the intent
1:11:50of the user pulling at their device you
1:11:52don't I mean doesn't need to be an
1:11:53interface element like a button that you
1:11:56interact with hmm that you're conscious
1:11:59of it can just be something that makes
1:12:00it makes the phone feel more magical
1:12:02like how did it know that was my intent
1:12:03well actually we're sensing your fingers
1:12:05even when they're off the screen you
1:12:06know what I mean all right uh what else
1:12:10on iOS PC free that's been a long time
1:12:13coming cutting the tether no need to
1:12:16plug this thing into your computer it's
1:12:17not just the set up thing that was what
1:12:18they said if it's a shame when you buy
1:12:19this device you have to plug it in but
1:12:20this is the post PC era why do you have
1:12:22to plug it in but just everything
1:12:23over-the-air updates over and this is
1:12:25iCloud related because even you know
1:12:28they talked about this before iCloud
1:12:30actually but it was clear that to do
1:12:32this you need something you need
1:12:33something that's always on that is your
1:12:35thing that your phone syncs with and
1:12:38that's basically iCloud or you know
1:12:40iCloud is an umbrella terms the number
1:12:41of things that are behind that month
1:12:42that name technically speaking are many
1:12:44different services many of which have
1:12:46absolutely nothing to do with each other
1:12:47except for the fact they're all
1:12:48described with iCloud and so in this
1:12:49case I OS 5 is the magical thing but
1:12:52yeah but it's talking to things that are
1:12:54under the umbrella of iCloud but being
1:12:57able to over-the-air updates of the OS
1:12:58of applications having your application
1:13:00sync but just not having a plug in that
1:13:02stupid dock connector hallelujah and we
1:13:06did a show about the dock connector and
1:13:08how much I hate it and this means the
1:13:11dock connector can slowly it can finally
1:13:14fade into the dust
1:13:15history to be replaced by simply
1:13:16something that charges the iPhone maybe
1:13:18inductive charging maybe just a
1:13:19thunderbolt port and the charges to
1:13:22think because once you can do all your
1:13:23syncing then alright but they're still
1:13:26there are still people who will always
1:13:28want to sync with a connection there are
1:13:30people who might not have I mean it's
1:13:32weird also no one wants to sync with the
1:13:34connection the real thing is that
1:13:36there's an ecosystem of devices that
1:13:38connect every net remember that syncing
1:13:39won't happen unless you've got power
1:13:41plugged into it it won't sink without
1:13:45that it won't you won't like how you buy
1:13:47an application on your iPhone uh
1:13:49and on your other eye on your other
1:13:51iPhone or and your other ipod touch that
1:13:53application won't sink to it my
1:13:54understanding is that maybe I got this
1:13:56wrong so I'm you know I don't need an
1:13:58email about it but you can tell me or
1:14:00the chatroom
1:14:01can tell us my understanding though was
1:14:04that in order for you to do that kind of
1:14:06syncing that it wants to be plugged in
1:14:08when you're doing the syncing like power
1:14:10I'm not positive that that's required to
1:14:13in every event you know what I think
1:14:14about it
1:14:15max will yell at you if you try to do
1:14:17software update and then shell again
1:14:18like if you have laptop it'll say hey
1:14:20you know this might take a while and
1:14:21it's going to burn a lot of battery
1:14:22because we to use your disk you're sure
1:14:23you don't want to plug in Sawle right I
1:14:24can imagine them having something in
1:14:26that area but the key point is that they
1:14:29don't have to pull the data over the USB
1:14:30cable anymore they can do over your
1:14:32Wi-Fi wouldn't it be much much faster to
1:14:34pull data over USB than it always been
1:14:37it will I mean what if what if you're on
1:14:38a camping I don't know what's what's
1:14:40that what's the 802 11 n versus if
1:14:42you're on a camping trip and and you you
1:14:45forgot to you know you downloaded some
1:14:47podcasts and you want to convert you
1:14:50know you want to get them on your your
1:14:52iPhone and you're too far from a signal
1:14:54to get it and you don't want to have to
1:14:56set up a network that's a laptop because
1:14:58you don't know how to do it and it
1:15:00should land sync them and if it can't
1:15:01land sync them it's use airdrop the the
1:15:03peer-to-peer Wi-Fi ad-hoc connection
1:15:06between you know all I'm saying is
1:15:07they're still people there's going to be
1:15:08edge cases out there people who just
1:15:10want to do it the old-fashioned way they
1:15:12don't I mean like like sided I just not
1:15:14plug-in dock connectors not going away
1:15:16just because there's so many products
1:15:17plug into the dock connector and
1:15:19certainly that's that'll remain the only
1:15:21thing they ship what the thing is going
1:15:22to be dock connector cable it someone of
1:15:24the chatroom points out that the PC free
1:15:26thing has a lot to do with also that the
1:15:29people aren't syncing their stuff
1:15:30anymore don't know where he's getting
1:15:31this information from but anecdotally
1:15:33you can imagine if someone will buy an
1:15:35iDevice iPod and iPad an iPhone plug it
1:15:40in when they first get it and then never
1:15:41plug it into the computer ever again
1:15:42only thing they ever plug it into is
1:15:44wall socket or you know the wall
1:15:45connector thing to charge it it never
1:15:47touches their Mac again and they do buy
1:15:49all their stuff on it they watch netflix
1:15:51on it to download apps on Apple II never
1:15:52ever connected their computer again and
1:15:54I know people who do this I don't know
1:15:56what the percentages are but but it's
1:15:58true that it does happen and all of us
1:16:00knew that was just kind of perverse that
1:16:02these devices that are supposed to be
1:16:04post-pc devices are so reliant on on the
1:16:06PC so thumbs up for PC free I guess we
1:16:10will have to try it and see what the
1:16:12reality is and how what things still
1:16:15require being plugged in for and how you
1:16:17know untethered you can really go
1:16:19you know I messages I said I message DRI
1:16:22messages I have it singular here but I
1:16:24think I think it's iMessage but I don't
1:16:26know people know what you're talking
1:16:27about
1:16:27oh yeah I've heard I've even heard it
1:16:29called AI messenger yeah I just like the
1:16:31eye touch right so I don't think I don't
1:16:34think it matters but this is great this
1:16:35is their big aerial assault on
1:16:38BlackBerry's messaging thing my question
1:16:41for you is are we going to get a Mac
1:16:43client for this or is it going to just
1:16:46work with our chatter FaceTime please
1:16:47answer oh geez
1:16:50I'm gonna say it's so hard to call
1:16:53because like they made FaceTime and
1:16:55you're like but why is this a separate
1:16:56app why doesn't this why didn't you just
1:16:59make I chat support this so you've got a
1:17:01chat
1:17:01we've got FaceTime and now we've got
1:17:03iMessage so it's three non-interoperable
1:17:06you know I don't understand what their
1:17:09messaging strategy here I mean I love I
1:17:11love the fact that you have this on on
1:17:15any iOS device I mean it's it's genius
1:17:17it's pure genius because all of us hate
1:17:20paying money for text messaging it's
1:17:23ridiculous this has everything it has
1:17:26attachments it has everything that you
1:17:28could possibly want and it's it's genius
1:17:31and it doesn't cost anything and the
1:17:33carrier's heard about it apparently at
1:17:35the same time we did when we were
1:17:37watching or reading about the key
1:17:40they were just as surprised as us and
1:17:42it's genius it's a great thing for Apple
1:17:44to do I'm glad they did it
1:17:45why isn't there and I'm not give me a
1:17:46Matt Klein ID you know what don't even
1:17:48that I like I get that they may maybe
1:17:51don't announce it immediately but they
1:17:54should they should say and this will be
1:17:55coming to Mac sometime soon you know
1:17:57just do yeah I don't know if the Mac it
1:17:58is they consider the Mac participating
1:18:00in that little family like they want
1:18:02people with why not that iPhones iPod
1:18:04Touch why not it because this is the
1:18:07replacement for texting not for I am you
1:18:09know what I mean I think they see this
1:18:11like but here's the thing if I if I
1:18:13wanna I am John siracusa oh no I
1:18:15understand conceptually speaking like
1:18:17you shouldn't care I should work at this
1:18:18yeah just let me message him and if
1:18:20regardless of where he is what device is
1:18:23on but or I'm gonna gank incorrectly I
1:18:26believe Apple sees this as you know
1:18:28people text from portable devices people
1:18:30don't text from desktop and it's a
1:18:32different world in whatever they haven't
1:18:33gotten the I mean if they clearly
1:18:34haven't gotten the clue because of the
1:18:36separation i chat and FaceTime i gen
1:18:38does video an hour but how can they this
1:18:40is what I don't this one I don't
1:18:41understand John how can they get that
1:18:43wrong I mean they're they're so right on
1:18:46so many things especially in I don't
1:18:50know I whenever I see something like
1:18:52that I see it as a symptom of a
1:18:54corporate sickness like they just
1:18:55haven't quite gotten their acts together
1:18:57too many people go in too many different
1:18:58directions and I always think with some
1:19:00sort of org chart reason for these
1:19:01things to be all my stuff like this and
1:19:03it's going to take someone a little bit
1:19:05higher in the org chart to demand some
1:19:08sort of coalescing at some point in the
1:19:09future because I would imagine the
1:19:11iMessage team's mandate was SMS like
1:19:15speaking of SMS talking so we did it we
1:19:17did a show about this it wasn't whole
1:19:19show about it but at some point in the
1:19:20past show I did my thing where I
1:19:21complained about SMS maybe it was my
1:19:23my-y I don't have an iPhone episode I
1:19:25don't remember
1:19:25uh and a lot of people were sending me
1:19:29messages and emails during the show it's
1:19:30like this keynote is all stuff that I've
1:19:32heard John complained about and
1:19:33hypercritical it's like he's addressing
1:19:34the points one by one
1:19:36uh that's partially true because I mean
1:19:38what did I have to complain about in
1:19:40hypercritical it was all the stuff that
1:19:41bothers me and this keynote was like uh
1:19:45as many people have said and I'm sure
1:19:48was said on Gruber's podcast and we're
1:19:50certainly set amongst us all in person
1:19:52it was like settling all old debts
1:19:53you know just knocking them all down I
1:19:56likened it when I was talking to John to
1:19:58the thing when they had that Enterprise
1:20:00stuff or like iPhones you know people
1:20:02want to do iPhones the enterprise and
1:20:03here are their complaints can't
1:20:04integrate with our exchange server can't
1:20:06you know provision it remotely can't do
1:20:08remote wipe can't you know they went
1:20:09through all these litany of complaints
1:20:10about why iOS wasn't good for enterprise
1:20:13they said well we did all those things
1:20:14to shut up I mean they left off the last
1:20:15part but it was that type of thing where
1:20:17here's all your complaints here's all
1:20:19the stuff that we know we've screwed up
1:20:21that we've been hearing about for all
1:20:22you know and these are things that are
1:20:23been festering I said well guess what
1:20:25we're doing them all as SMS you know if
1:20:27did you do you hate SMS do you hate
1:20:29paying the stupid $0.10 in 160 character
1:20:31limit and all that stuff but we hated to
1:20:33and here's iMessage you know screw SMS
1:20:35and I think that was that was the narrow
1:20:38laser focus of iMessage was hit SMS get
1:20:43you know solve that problem and wrongly
1:20:46as we both noted they didn't pull up one
1:20:49more level and say listen is just about
1:20:51like messaging and really we already
1:20:53have a big mess with the FaceTime and
1:20:55iChat thing let's not add a third let's
1:20:57unify this they didn't do that they
1:20:59wasn't they were they were narrow maybe
1:21:00you got to do that in the 1.0 maybe this
1:21:02involves an iMessage comes to - you know
1:21:05dominate in some sort of consolidation
1:21:07but for now we have iMessage I don't use
1:21:09tech messaging at all but I still
1:21:11applaud shame shame on you for that
1:21:13because there's I think of every every
1:21:17week I can think of one important text
1:21:20message I'd like to send you and I just
1:21:22think while he's so like you so it is
1:21:24connect better DM me and I'll see it huh
1:21:27it works the same it was there any
1:21:30Twitter DM you sent that I didn't get in
1:21:32the timely manner while I was here I
1:21:34don't have to review all three of them
1:21:36ah anyway yes I'm sure eventually
1:21:39someday I'll break down or your life on
1:21:41that day is not today see I think the
1:21:43guy should've bought you an iPhone
1:21:44instead of a toaster and pay for the
1:21:46bill every month right yeah now they
1:21:48should have roped you into that somehow
1:21:49yeah what's left from this WWDC thing oh
1:21:53well let me just finish up I pet eyes oh
1:21:55there's more iOS 5 yeah tabs in Safari
1:21:58yay about time that was quick newsstand
1:22:00uh it's kind of weird that I like a
1:22:04newsstand and I see it as a solution to
1:22:07the problem of people don't know where
1:22:09they'll define the New York Times the
1:22:11App Store is huge it's scary
1:22:13it's filled with keyword squatters and
1:22:14fake apps and like cheap guides and God
1:22:17knows what else and if you if you want
1:22:19to if you want to go somewhere and say
1:22:20what kind of magazines you got you
1:22:21search for magazines
1:22:22god knows what you'll find out it's just
1:22:24in various times it's it's Apple versus
1:22:27these keyword squatters and crappy app
1:22:29things and it's an ongoing battle and so
1:22:31Apple wanted to make you know a clean
1:22:33well-lighted place for people using a
1:22:35metaphor that people are familiar with
1:22:36here's the newsstand and my
1:22:38understanding is that that in the
1:22:40beginning that's literally what it is
1:22:41it's them
1:22:42collecting together all the things that
1:22:44are in Apple's estimation things that
1:22:47are magazines that are periodicals and
1:22:50they're just apps that already existed
1:22:51and I think there are some hooks to do
1:22:53stuff with news they had a session on
1:22:55newsstand I didn't go to it
1:22:57unfortunately but obviously some more
1:22:58you can do but initially I believe
1:23:00newsstand will just be filled with stuff
1:23:01like the New York Times app the Fortune
1:23:02magazine app the Wired magazine app
1:23:04stuff like that so it's interesting that
1:23:07they felt the need to make their store
1:23:10easier to navigate by making a little
1:23:12silo that's a subset of their store well
1:23:15you know I think I think this may be I
1:23:19don't know if it if it's a clue into a
1:23:23bigger but why why wouldn't Apple come
1:23:26out with their own document publishing
1:23:30infrastructure at some point that's
1:23:31bigger than this that's if if you have a
1:23:34periodical a newspaper even a book and
1:23:38you just want to publish it here you
1:23:41know we'll make it very very easy for
1:23:43you to do that
1:23:43you just create your content here's all
1:23:45the layout tools here's everything else
1:23:47that you need and it'll all just go with
1:23:49a newsstand and people can subscribe to
1:23:50it right here yep people wanting Apple
1:23:53to do that since cash flow is it was it
1:23:56the iPad iPad was gonna be things
1:23:57Apple's gonna have a publishing solution
1:23:59but it doesn't this doesn't just feel
1:24:01like them sort of taking a first step in
1:24:04in a way no I think it's exactly what I
1:24:07said it was it's letting users more
1:24:08easily find apps and other people make
1:24:10an Apple Apple as probably wisely in my
1:24:13opinion has not just has not decided to
1:24:16try to make a publishing platform like
1:24:18they're not going to compete with Adobe
1:24:20mostly because
1:24:21I think apple doesn't have this
1:24:22expertise and like look with it with
1:24:25iBooks right so they used epub which is
1:24:26a standard that they didn't make but
1:24:27even that where they made their own kind
1:24:30of like weird semi compatible
1:24:31implementation of some conglomeration of
1:24:33epub stuff like someone else is doing
1:24:36the heavy lifting there and they're just
1:24:37implementing it and even that is kind of
1:24:39testy and annoying and their apps don't
1:24:41export epub in quite the right way and
1:24:43don't work you know they're not trying
1:24:45to do your publishing workflow for you
1:24:46that's not what Apple does is the
1:24:48company's much as we all want them to
1:24:49solve that problem especially publishers
1:24:50who were technically Clues like please
1:24:51Apple solve our publishing workflow
1:24:53problem
1:24:54Apple has chosen not to do that so far
1:24:57and instead the publisher left a left to
1:24:58the you know the eager clause of Adobe
1:25:00who's going to charge them some insane
1:25:01you know rate for their tools that
1:25:04create these 500 megabyte magazines
1:25:06filled with giant images of magazine
1:25:08pages split up into a bunch of Tiff's or
1:25:10PDF or goggles whatever the hell they're
1:25:11doing
1:25:12but yeah Apple Apple is not not going
1:25:15into that market yet I don't know if
1:25:17they ever will and I think it's wise
1:25:20because I'm it's not even obvious to me
1:25:22what the solution would be it's kind of
1:25:24like well we know we want something and
1:25:26we want it to be good but we don't know
1:25:27what it is so Apple come up with it I
1:25:28don't think Apple really knows either so
1:25:31they're staying out of it we also have
1:25:34Twitter integration that the
1:25:38relationship between Apple and Twitter
1:25:39is weird like it's clear that they they
1:25:43want to be what it reminds me of kind of
1:25:46is the old relationship to an Apple and
1:25:47Google remember when they were kind of
1:25:49like buddies like Google is the company
1:25:51they could do Islands online stuff and
1:25:53Apple is this up-and-coming company they
1:25:55could do client-side stuff and they kind
1:25:57of complemented each other and then
1:25:58those roads diverged and the two guys
1:26:00went off on the directional twitter is
1:26:01now like Twitter is a social networking
1:26:04company the Apple gets along with like
1:26:06Facebook and Apple aren't really getting
1:26:09along you know they tried to do that
1:26:11ping thing tried to make it be a
1:26:13Facebook thing and that fell through and
1:26:14they had to get ping without Facebook
1:26:16and it's you know deal way for various
1:26:17reasons but yet not having Facebook in
1:26:21on that deal really hurted I think but
1:26:24Twitter they seem to get along with so
1:26:26the two of those companies seem to be
1:26:27like peas and carrots at this point and
1:26:30they have the you know the single
1:26:32sign-on thing like that helps
1:26:35third-party developers be able to look
1:26:37pull up a sheet to send a tweet just
1:26:38like you can pull up a sheet to send an
1:26:39email you know it's a system integration
1:26:41for tweeting stuff but I don't think it
1:26:42helps third party iOS through our
1:26:44clients at all like so
1:26:45Twitter's focuses to hell you know we'll
1:26:47help you integrate Twitter into your OS
1:26:49but this doesn't really affect clients
1:26:51we're still kind of the same story on
1:26:53that well here's what I said for your
1:26:55your benefit and I guess for the
1:26:57listeners who don't listen to the talk
1:27:00show or haven't listened to this week
1:27:01yet are listening to this one first what
1:27:04I said is that I think it's a very uh
1:27:05napple like for Apple to depend and
1:27:09integrate so heavily with a third-party
1:27:12like this that that this is the kind of
1:27:15thing that Apple is usually loathe to do
1:27:17for a variety of reasons that you can
1:27:19easily imagine why they might not want
1:27:21to so deeply tie into an integrate with
1:27:24a third party of any kind and that my
1:27:30guess is that if they're not planning to
1:27:33buy Twitter that they have some kind of
1:27:35first right of refusal deal where if
1:27:38somebody else comes and wants to try and
1:27:39buy Twitter although Jack will say that
1:27:41Twitter is not for sale
1:27:43that they're going to have the
1:27:46opportunity before anybody else to buy
1:27:48Twitter because this is deep deep deep
1:27:50integration and Apple smart enough to
1:27:52know smart enough to know that these old
1:27:56versions of operating systems you know
1:27:58when iOS 5 is old whether that's in a
1:28:01year 2 3 from now they're still going to
1:28:03be people running iOS 5 and this
1:28:05relationship with Twitter isn't a
1:28:07short-term thing if they're doing this
1:28:09deep of an integration this means
1:28:11they're they're anticipating that this
1:28:13relationship will last it's not like
1:28:15paying where they can just take ping out
1:28:17of the next version of all the thing is
1:28:19the patroness relationship with Facebook
1:28:22they tried to have this relationship
1:28:23yeah it shouldn't hang and it fell
1:28:24through yeah they seem to be willing to
1:28:27do this with social things that they
1:28:28were willing to have this relationship
1:28:29with Google way back when - but then
1:28:30when there's those two guys drifted
1:28:32apart like Google decided to make its
1:28:33own phone then Apple was all or we got a
1:28:35buyer on mapping company or we got it
1:28:37you know they were like everything that
1:28:39we're currently relying on Google for
1:28:40let's start long-term plans to get off
1:28:41of them and do it ourselves if possible
1:28:43I aim it on the search front like what's
1:28:45buddy here's the thing you know and I
1:28:46said this on last show too
1:28:48I'm not on the talk show last episode of
1:28:51the talk show
1:28:52I said Apple has continuously not they
1:28:56haven't had the best luck doing their
1:28:58own social stuff or integrating their
1:29:01soul I mean you just met you know you
1:29:02just mentioned the pink thing and how
1:29:03that fell they have not had a very good
1:29:06track record here so why not partner up
1:29:08with who is arguably no III I understand
1:29:12what so they're gonna but they have to
1:29:13buy him now well well so the thing you
1:29:15said that like they have right at first
1:29:16retreat phrase a different way I would
1:29:18say that's the bet that I don't think I
1:29:22think they tried him on there but what I
1:29:24think always got it for me the only
1:29:26company that Twitter would let buy it is
1:29:27Apple and that's the only company I
1:29:29would be comfortable buying to that's
1:29:31the shoot the shoe is on that foot that
1:29:32I don't I don't think Twitter's trying
1:29:33to sell us up I don't think Apple's
1:29:35trying to buy in fact I don't think
1:29:36Apple wants to really do that they'd
1:29:38rather have Twitter do its thing but it
1:29:40would be hassle for them like they'd
1:29:42read it here's what I see they want to
1:29:44do its thing and have good integration
1:29:45as long as Twitter doesn't side to make
1:29:46its own phone or desktop operating
1:29:48system okay or you know a music store or
1:29:51like as long as you're not competing
1:29:52with us we are complementing each other
1:29:53we like the relationship but we don't
1:29:55want to be responsible for running your
1:29:56business especially since Twitter kinda
1:29:57has that problem of like oh by the way
1:29:59how are you gonna make money alright but
1:30:00here's that here's the thing John what
1:30:02if what if something happens what if
1:30:04Microsoft or Google or somebody else
1:30:05comes up and yank that crap yeah exactly
1:30:08they don't have to go through that so I
1:30:10said I think it's informal I don't think
1:30:13it's a ready for Musil contract I think
1:30:14it's simply that they both know they
1:30:17have talked to each other and they both
1:30:18agree that we will never sell to anybody
1:30:20except that of Apple some day came and
1:30:22made an offer we would say yes and I
1:30:24don't even know if that's been spoke
1:30:26I'll tell you what I'll tell you what I
1:30:27disagree with you and I think right now
1:30:29if you went into Steve Jobs office or
1:30:31Jack Dorsey's office and you open up the
1:30:33top desk of there's their drawer there's
1:30:36a little little note in there maybe it's
1:30:38signed I think part of the bottom a look
1:30:40yet a little you know a picture of an
1:30:42apple with a heart and a little bird
1:30:44next to it and it for all intents and
1:30:47purposes it's a deal that they can call
1:30:49out any time they need I guarantee you I
1:30:51guarantee you those type of deals exist
1:30:54informally when this trust between CEOs
1:30:57because they would they wouldn't have
1:30:58written it up and the thing is I really
1:31:00think Apple if up first of all that one
1:31:02whether they would have already liked
1:31:03you don't wait for the valuation to keep
1:31:05going up enough right so if they wanted
1:31:06it they could maybe Taylor said no I
1:31:08don't think no I don't think I don't
1:31:10think Apple wants them at this point or
1:31:12doesn't want them at the price they that
1:31:14they would have to pay for it they'd
1:31:16rather just like that you know they get
1:31:18they want all the benefits with none of
1:31:19the cost they don't want to deal with
1:31:20fear and how Twitter makes money or
1:31:22paying for all its stuff or scaling it
1:31:23because it's not what they're good at
1:31:24like let Twitter be Twitter and if
1:31:26they're not competing with us we will
1:31:27they'll take all the benefit and not
1:31:29have to incur any of the cost of running
1:31:30that business but if Twitter ever can't
1:31:33figure out how to make money starts
1:31:34going down the tubes or whatever or
1:31:36becomes bargain-priced or Twitter ever
1:31:38decides they want to sell right if any
1:31:40of those things happen you know I
1:31:42believe that Apple and them would do a
1:31:44deal and Apple would buy Twitter versus
1:31:46now when they're getting offers from
1:31:48like Google I'm sure loves to buy
1:31:49Twitter and probably made offers for it
1:31:50and Microsoft tries to buy everybody you
1:31:52know and Twitter's going to no no no no
1:31:54no if Apple came on strong if they
1:31:56change their mind decided you know we
1:31:57actually want to own Twitter because
1:31:58it'll be the first social thing that we
1:31:59own is awesome and we're willing to
1:32:01spend ho jillion dollars for it that's
1:32:04the only company Twitter would say yes
1:32:05for and I don't have anymore conspiracy
1:32:07theories upon that and I'll say this is
1:32:09not based on anything more than
1:32:10speculation but it's interesting that
1:32:12you have that is your information based
1:32:13on anything more than speculation
1:32:14because interesting you have exactly how
1:32:16dare you john siracusa I don't know how
1:32:18dare are you I don't I do not have
1:32:21access to the top drawer of Steve Jobs
1:32:23desk or to Jack Dorsey's desk but let me
1:32:27just put it this way if if you think
1:32:30about the mind of Steve Jobs in the way
1:32:32that he operates he is he takes risks
1:32:34but he only takes risks when it's based
1:32:37on something that he feels that he
1:32:38almost personally as Apple can deliver
1:32:42and this is in doing this level of
1:32:45integration is a huge risk if you don't
1:32:49feel that there's some degree of control
1:32:52there that's all that's all I will say
1:32:53let's move on to the next topic all
1:32:56right if there is one if you must have
1:32:58one because this is a long show yeah one
1:33:00last little bit here little bit it's and
1:33:03it's a kind of reminder that the
1:33:04reminders app and the camera app two
1:33:06examples I'm sure you talked about it's
1:33:07like crazy I'm Marco show so I'll glance
1:33:09over it but two examples of Apple
1:33:11integrating functionality that was
1:33:13previously represented by tons and tons
1:33:16apps in the App Store so there was
1:33:18better camera apps that had more
1:33:19features and Albertus folded them into
1:33:20their camera every were tons of reminder
1:33:22apps and now that reminders are in the
1:33:23OS and the example that I give for these
1:33:26two particular ones reminders in camera
1:33:28is that the iPhone from day one is
1:33:30shipped with the weather app but that
1:33:31has not stopped a gazillion weather apps
1:33:33from being on the App Store so that
1:33:36again I'm sure you got this all in the
1:33:38Marco thing but like Apple folding
1:33:40features into its built-in programs is
1:33:42good for the customer and in most cases
1:33:44it's probably not bad for third-party
1:33:46developers and the weather app is the
1:33:48best example for things like camera and
1:33:50reminders because those are fundamental
1:33:52built in from day one but so is the
1:33:55weather app and you know different
1:33:56strokes for different folks you know so
1:33:57maybe maybe if you have a business now
1:33:59that's bigger than the weather app
1:34:00business and like you know your reminder
1:34:03app now is bigger than the weather app
1:34:04business this will shrink you down to
1:34:06the size of the weather app business but
1:34:07I don't think the weather app business
1:34:08is hurting on the App Store just search
1:34:09for weather apps and you'll see what
1:34:11it's like out there
1:34:13the only thing I have now is is like
1:34:15like I said before this is a different
1:34:17analogy it reminded me of the the
1:34:20enterprise thing where they're you know
1:34:22saying all that stuff you wanted here it
1:34:24is it also reminds me of I don't know
1:34:25you know a software level it reminds me
1:34:27of like the the 10 4 and 10 5 releases
1:34:30of Mac OS 10 or their like BIGBANG
1:34:32releases with tons of new features that
1:34:35like they had to get the feet under them
1:34:37they had to get the infrastructure in
1:34:38they had to do multitasking you know
1:34:40copy and paste like or whatever where
1:34:41now is the time we can really start you
1:34:42know cranking on on the big feature
1:34:45releases in iOS 5 is the first bit it's
1:34:47interesting it's the same type of thing
1:34:48as you know ten point five which
1:34:49introduced time machine and tons of new
1:34:51API stuff like that this is like the
1:34:54first really big bang release it's
1:34:55interesting exactly you know iOS 4 was
1:34:57big and iOS 5 is even bigger and it's
1:34:59like 10 for tiger and 10 5 Leopard
1:35:02I think like iOS is in this steep part
1:35:05of its growth growth graph it's kind of
1:35:07like it's teenage growth spurt right now
1:35:09and that's fun to watch
1:35:10even if Mac OS 10 it's kind of in its
1:35:13dotage in a rocking chair getting a
1:35:15couple incremental features and stuff
1:35:17like that I think interesting things are
1:35:18happening in line but again I don't
1:35:19really talk too much about them but you
1:35:21can watch the keynote and see what's
1:35:22there so that's all I think I have on
1:35:24the WWDC keynote we tube every didn't
1:35:27have time today to talk about WWDC at
1:35:29health
1:35:30and meeting people and everything all I
1:35:31can say is that it's been a great
1:35:33experience and I've been humbled and
1:35:34honored and met so many awesome people
1:35:36more it was better than I thought it
1:35:39could possibly be in terms of who ever
1:35:40get to talk to about what and just I've
1:35:43just you know met and talked to
1:35:44everybody it's been great
1:35:46well I mean I'm really glad you got a
1:35:48chance to go wish I could have gone this
1:35:49year one thing I'd like to add is I got
1:35:51a tweet here from a NAT message not a DM
1:35:56so I'm feel comfortable reading it it's
1:35:58from Ken Fisher do you know you know ken
1:36:00Fischer is yes I do
1:36:01okay Ken official I saw that method that
1:36:04allow me to read it please go ahead
1:36:05hmm EW at ours here
1:36:09what is he I see Stan editor-in-chief I
1:36:12thought they were switching to Grand
1:36:14Poobah now yes what you're switching to
1:36:17a I see it ours here I imagine a very
1:36:21Donald Trump sort of voice very
1:36:23commanding presence the way he comes on
1:36:26I'll have you know that Syracuse had
1:36:29told no one at ours and all caps no one
1:36:32at ours he wanted to go or was even
1:36:34going to WWDC and he ends it with a
1:36:37emoticon a happy face yeah I don't see
1:36:42that's what Jackie said when I met her
1:36:44uh Jackie and Clint from ours who I've
1:36:46been you know talking to online for just
1:36:48years and using us but still have never
1:36:49met in person so I met them they didn't
1:36:51even know I was here until I started
1:36:52tweeting about being here but I think
1:36:54it's illustrative of my point that they
1:36:57didn't say wait a second are you here
1:36:59until like a day into me tweeting like
1:37:01I'm landing and I'm on the BART and like
1:37:03I'm I'm I'm tweeting things that are
1:37:06clearly indicating that I'm at WWDC and
1:37:08talking about you know San Francisco and
1:37:11things in San Francisco and then like
1:37:12half a day later is it wait a second are
1:37:14you here this shows they just don't
1:37:16listen to me like I didn't do a big
1:37:18announcement like hey everybody I'm
1:37:19going to WC but I talked about it all
1:37:21the time you know to to you know talk
1:37:24about four weeks to excuse them yeah
1:37:26well they don't listen to my podcast or
1:37:27anything like that fine but this an IRC
1:37:29room IRS uses IRC for its you know
1:37:32communication even though I'm not an
1:37:33arse employer hang out in there just to
1:37:34talk with the people sort of the control
1:37:36yeah Omar yeah more like a heckler kind
1:37:38of creepy yeah but that's why I'm
1:37:40constantly hanging out in there and
1:37:41saying things and I'm typing things all
1:37:42day long and they just all been trained
1:37:43to ignore me because when I'm lathering
1:37:45crap so when I'm talking about like
1:37:47stuff I have to do at WWDC or whatever
1:37:49you know Ken's in that room all the time
1:37:52too but just because he's in the room
1:37:53doesn't mean you know he's idling in IRC
1:37:54right so somehow they either ignored all
1:37:57my messages that reference the IRS the
1:37:59references I was going to WWC or they
1:38:01just weren't in the room and they happen
1:38:02and as for telling who I was going to go
1:38:04I sent a direct message to another our
1:38:08tactic employee I don't remember who it
1:38:10was but I don't think it was Ken or
1:38:11maybe it was Cathy go through my IRC
1:38:12logs but I sent a private message on IRC
1:38:15that said hey I'm going to WWC how many
1:38:17tickets do you have or do you think
1:38:19there's any chance that you know you
1:38:21could pay for part of my trip or
1:38:22something like that I never heard back
1:38:23and I didn't pursue it further so it's
1:38:24my fault for not pursuing it further but
1:38:26I assumed they'd gotten the message and
1:38:28like you know I knew how many tickets
1:38:29they had they only had ones for you know
1:38:30Jackie and Clint really had to I don't
1:38:33know if they had any passes thing with
1:38:34me right I I wasn't as we talked about
1:38:37in the last show I don't blame them for
1:38:38not paying for any part of my trip
1:38:40because I didn't work for them when I
1:38:41was here you know I just did what I
1:38:43wanted to do when I wanted to do it
1:38:45didn't write anything for ours when I
1:38:46was here and so on so forth other people
1:38:47said well isn't this like a research
1:38:48trip for your Mac os10 line review sort
1:38:51of but like you know they'll pay me for
1:38:53that you know so you feel you feel that
1:38:56the line piece that you'll write you'll
1:38:58be financially compensated for
1:39:00two-degree the day you're satisfied with
1:39:02and they go and go into WWDC was
1:39:05important to you and that's why you did
1:39:06it you were certainly not expecting
1:39:08anything they're always good to me in
1:39:10terms of payment for my Mac os10 reviews
1:39:13and I have no complaints and I'm you're
1:39:15the one who was getting on the thing of
1:39:16like why isn't our sponsor it's not me
1:39:18it's all coming from you and so he was
1:39:19replying to you and saying hey we didn't
1:39:21even know he was going no he was sooo
1:39:22easy very clean and I you know what I
1:39:23believed him I believed him oh yeah no
1:39:26I'm not saying he knew and didn't I'm
1:39:27just saying like it's they didn't know
1:39:29because I'm always talking and they just
1:39:30learned to ignore me you know I mean and
1:39:33they're also people who don't read it
1:39:34actually I know exactly what they mean
1:39:35yes there are people who don't read
1:39:37every tweet in their stream and I do
1:39:38tweet a lot and even though most them do
1:39:40follow me
1:39:41you know they definitely are not I read
1:39:42every tweet type of things so yeah but
1:39:44under it I saw the RS people who are
1:39:46here I got to meet a lot of this a lot
1:39:48of people who had never had before in
1:39:49ours
1:39:49and that was great and everything worked
1:39:51out fine and I have no issues with this
1:39:54trip or anything related to
1:39:56they'd say about they'd say you're a
1:39:57stand-up guy that you just said this is
1:39:59important I'm gonna do it I don't kid
1:40:01these guys don't need to I don't need
1:40:03anything from them I want to go I'm
1:40:04going I'm like I said if they had said
1:40:05hey we'll help you no pay for blah blah
1:40:07then I would have been like oh geez do I
1:40:09even really want that business at hang
1:40:11you know ever have to do work you know
1:40:13I've already added to them then no but
1:40:15like this way you went is a free man
1:40:17you're your own I could do whatever I
1:40:19want whenever I want to had no
1:40:20obligation do any writing I thought
1:40:22fantasize before I went that I was gonna
1:40:23like maybe I can write some parts of
1:40:25their view while I'm here forget about
1:40:26that just for ya it's not I've I knew
1:40:29that was kind of foolish but yeah I
1:40:30realized like like I'll leave the hotel
1:40:31room in the morning come back at 3:00
1:40:33a.m. collapse get up go to the sessions
1:40:36the next part you know so it's not
1:40:37you're not you're not you're unbeaten
1:40:40yes and that's the way I wanted it to be
1:40:43so I have no complaints and you should
1:40:46stop stirring the pot that's what I say
1:40:48okay instigator it's awesome
1:40:51shame on you then no you're it's
1:40:54yourself shame on you okay but that's it
1:40:56for this week yes we are done we are
1:40:59done and we will be back in regular time
1:41:00next weeks that's safe uh yeah thanks oh
1:41:04okay
1:41:04people get very upset when I move things
1:41:07around and schedule it's like it's like
1:41:09if somebody comes in and you know like
1:41:12if somebody while you were gone
1:41:14came in and moved to your desk you know
1:41:16moved your keyboard around moved your
1:41:17mouse around or your weird shoes yeah
1:41:20you get very upset in there you'd be
1:41:22like what wait a minute somebody moved
1:41:24my stapler you know what you gotta you
1:41:26gotta count for this w everybody sees
1:41:27that even while we were doing the show
1:41:29John people were tweeting saying that
1:41:31they miss hypercritical and when will it
1:41:33be coming out and I said that while
1:41:35we're on the show I looked I said you're
1:41:36missing it it's on right now and don't
1:41:38don't you look at the schedule so I'll
1:41:40say this there's a two thing so I'm
1:41:42going to do here that I don't normally
1:41:43do I I frequently ask people to review
1:41:47the shows if they like them or I mean if
1:41:49they don't but obviously if they do it
1:41:50is better to go in to review no review
1:41:53the shows in iTunes that's not what I'm
1:41:54asking for today there's two other
1:41:55things the first one is go to five by
1:41:57five dot TV slash schedule or as you as
1:42:00you would say in the jean-luc Picard Ian
1:42:02style of which you are doing so well
1:42:04known for
1:42:05the edge we'll go look at that 5x5 that
1:42:10TV /schedule and you will see for the
1:42:13most part the the days and times that we
1:42:15do the live shows and we do try to move
1:42:18them around so like yesterday when we
1:42:19were attempting to do it
1:42:20early in the morning I I had it on the
1:42:24schedule for yesterday early in the
1:42:25morning when we found out we couldn't do
1:42:27it I immediately moved it to today and
1:42:29then updated it as soon as we had a time
1:42:31so that I do I do my best to keep that
1:42:33up to date so look at that and the other
1:42:36thing and this is something it did I
1:42:38I've been encouraged to do this and I
1:42:40don't really like to do this but I've
1:42:42been encouraged to do it by a couple of
1:42:45other people and a handful of listeners
1:42:47and that is this if for some reason you
1:42:50would like to help support what we do at
1:42:515x5 and and and are feeling generous we
1:42:56would love to receive your generosity if
1:42:58you feel so inclined by going to 5x5 dot
1:43:00TV slash donate or you can donate as
1:43:03much or as little as you choose in a
1:43:05variety of different ways or not or
1:43:07don't go there and the shows will stay
1:43:09just as as great as they ever have been
1:43:12so but that's it anything you would like
1:43:14to add follow John siracusa at siracusa
1:43:18on twitter he has no Facebook account I
1:43:20do have one blue I have one from way
1:43:22back but I did not look at it all as
1:43:24ever but Twitter you can follow him on
1:43:26Twitter yes and you can follow me on
1:43:28Twitter if you so choose at Dan Benjamin
1:43:30and that's it have a great week thank
1:43:32you John
1:43:34get down
1:43:40[Music]