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Hypercritical

19: Don't Make Me Read

 

00:00:00   [Music] [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/0">TS</a>]

00:00:01   this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1">TS</a>]

00:00:04   ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/4">TS</a>]

00:00:08   the microcosm of Apple from related [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/8">TS</a>]

00:00:10   technologies and businesses nothing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/10">TS</a>]

00:00:12   so perfect that it cannot be destroyed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/12">TS</a>]

00:00:15   by my co-host John siracusa i'm dan [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/15">TS</a>]

00:00:19   benjamin and this is episode 19 like to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/19">TS</a>]

00:00:23   say a quick thank you to our two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/23">TS</a>]

00:00:24   sponsors today get harvest calm and felt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/24">TS</a>]

00:00:27   tips sound studio for which we'll tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/27">TS</a>]

00:00:29   you about is a program commences how are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/29">TS</a>]

00:00:31   you John I'm pretty good it's a good day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/31">TS</a>]

00:00:33   for you today it's Friday before a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/33">TS</a>]

00:00:34   holiday weekend yeah it's gonna be nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/34">TS</a>]

00:00:39   we got a hard stop at an hour though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/39">TS</a>]

00:00:41   hard stop I mean like hard is slam the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/41">TS</a>]

00:00:44   slam the laptop shut walk out the door [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/44">TS</a>]

00:00:46   kind of hard stop we'll see what we can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/46">TS</a>]

00:00:48   do I hate doing that to you because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/48">TS</a>]

00:00:50   know you like to go along Sarah I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/50">TS</a>]

00:00:53   by the time an hour is up this room will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/53">TS</a>]

00:00:55   be put darn hot you know you're out the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/55">TS</a>]

00:00:58   summer podcasting situation oh I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/58">TS</a>]

00:01:00   think I can have the a/c on because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/60">TS</a>]

00:01:02   will be too noisy that's what I'm just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/62">TS</a>]

00:01:03   doing turning it off oh why don't you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/63">TS</a>]

00:01:06   throw it off flip the switch you'll see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/66">TS</a>]

00:01:07   I don't want you to suffer she shouldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/67">TS</a>]

00:01:09   have to suffer for your art in 2011 I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/69">TS</a>]

00:01:12   go as long as I can we'll say well just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/72">TS</a>]

00:01:13   turn it on let's see here at the noise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/73">TS</a>]

00:01:15   and alright Anna that might not be bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/75">TS</a>]

00:01:17   once we get you a good mic it won't be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/77">TS</a>]

00:01:19   bad I'm not editing any of this out it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/79">TS</a>]

00:01:22   all stays what do you think I don't hear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/82">TS</a>]

00:01:31   a thing no reason for you to suffer it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/91">TS</a>]

00:01:33   sounds great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/93">TS</a>]

00:01:33   alright I'll leave it on and leave it on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/93">TS</a>]

00:01:35   I don't want you to said be tough I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/95">TS</a>]

00:01:37   you you're angry enough as it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/97">TS</a>]

00:01:39   haven't you sweating in a sweat box in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/99">TS</a>]

00:01:42   there and then your old family is a dad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/102">TS</a>]

00:01:44   take a shower [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/104">TS</a>]

00:01:46   terrible alright let's get started on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/106">TS</a>]

00:01:49   the clock we're on the clock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/109">TS</a>]

00:01:51   yep let's go we're starting to up time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/111">TS</a>]

00:01:54   yeah so what I did last week is I timed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/114">TS</a>]

00:02:00   how long it took my toaster to toast a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/120">TS</a>]

00:02:02   piece of bread ah starting from a cold [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/122">TS</a>]

00:02:04   start what did you do last week I moved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/124">TS</a>]

00:02:06   1,300 miles across the country but did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/126">TS</a>]

00:02:09   your time your toaster no I didn't I did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/129">TS</a>]

00:02:11   not it was in a box and a moving truck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/131">TS</a>]

00:02:12   somewhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/132">TS</a>]

00:02:13   unbelievable I know how long did it take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/133">TS</a>]

00:02:15   I was close with my estimate it took [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/135">TS</a>]

00:02:18   five minutes and eight second what for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/138">TS</a>]

00:02:21   single piece of bread come on five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/141">TS</a>]

00:02:23   minutes and 18 seconds I find it that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/143">TS</a>]

00:02:26   not I know that's that's and you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/146">TS</a>]

00:02:28   asking me last week like how long would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/148">TS</a>]

00:02:29   you take I just had to long well that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/149">TS</a>]

00:02:31   that is to or that really long too long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/151">TS</a>]

00:02:33   it's just too darn long like next day it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/153">TS</a>]

00:02:35   doesn't seem like a long time the next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/155">TS</a>]

00:02:36   time you wake up in the morning look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/156">TS</a>]

00:02:37   your clock and wait until the hand moves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/157">TS</a>]

00:02:39   five minutes and think that's how long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/159">TS</a>]

00:02:40   to get in Stokes that's how long John [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/160">TS</a>]

00:02:42   siracusa waits for his toast no good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/162">TS</a>]

00:02:44   that is really a long time now before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/164">TS</a>]

00:02:47   you get it too much into your tirade [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/167">TS</a>]

00:02:49   here III just want to say straight up at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/169">TS</a>]

00:02:53   the front of this at the top of the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/173">TS</a>]

00:02:54   the the biggest response that I saw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/174">TS</a>]

00:02:57   coming in about toasters was if what he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/177">TS</a>]

00:03:00   wants is toast why doesn't he just use a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/180">TS</a>]

00:03:03   slot toaster oven they make really good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/183">TS</a>]

00:03:05   toast and both sides get toasted and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/185">TS</a>]

00:03:07   only takes like 45 seconds see when we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/187">TS</a>]

00:03:10   just jump right to that point sure uh I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/190">TS</a>]

00:03:13   I thought that kind of went without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/193">TS</a>]

00:03:15   saying maybe it's just I thought it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/195">TS</a>]

00:03:18   implied in my discussion of toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/198">TS</a>]

00:03:20   ovens that I want to toaster oven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/200">TS</a>]

00:03:22   because I use the oven part of it I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/202">TS</a>]

00:03:24   didn't talk about the oven part of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/204">TS</a>]

00:03:25   because that wasn't just kept talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/205">TS</a>]

00:03:26   that toast right but at the toast was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/206">TS</a>]

00:03:30   the part doesn't work in the toaster up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/210">TS</a>]

00:03:32   in the oven part of the toaster oven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/212">TS</a>]

00:03:33   you know it works like an oven I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/213">TS</a>]

00:03:35   have particular complaints about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/215">TS</a>]

00:03:37   part and the next question is well why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/217">TS</a>]

00:03:38   not just get both of them on I have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/218">TS</a>]

00:03:40   slot toaster for toast and a toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/220">TS</a>]

00:03:41   oven for whatever you use that for I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/221">TS</a>]

00:03:43   just don't have the counter space for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/223">TS</a>]

00:03:44   two appliances you know so it's like we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/224">TS</a>]

00:03:47   have room for the toaster oven but no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/227">TS</a>]

00:03:49   place really to put the slot toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/229">TS</a>]

00:03:51   where we could get one so if I'm forced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/231">TS</a>]

00:03:54   to choose between the two appliances I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/234">TS</a>]

00:03:55   pick the one that can do two different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/235">TS</a>]

00:03:56   things and I mentioned in the last show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/236">TS</a>]

00:03:59   that you shouldn't be making pizza in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/239">TS</a>]

00:04:01   your toaster I meant like cooking pizza [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/241">TS</a>]

00:04:03   one thing that you should be using your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/243">TS</a>]

00:04:04   toaster for or your oven is for things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/244">TS</a>]

00:04:06   like reheating a slice of pizza you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/246">TS</a>]

00:04:08   should not reheat the leftover pizza in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/248">TS</a>]

00:04:10   the microwave it just becomes a soggy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/250">TS</a>]

00:04:11   disgustingness if you have a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/251">TS</a>]

00:04:13   pizza to reheat yeah use your oven but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/253">TS</a>]

00:04:15   if it's if you just have one slice of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/255">TS</a>]

00:04:16   pizza and you want to heat it up for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/256">TS</a>]

00:04:18   lunch or something let's put the toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/258">TS</a>]

00:04:19   oven is for um and it works right even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/259">TS</a>]

00:04:21   my crappy toaster heats up the pizza [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/261">TS</a>]

00:04:23   just fine so that that's the slot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/263">TS</a>]

00:04:26   toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/266">TS</a>]

00:04:27   toaster oven thing actually it I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/267">TS</a>]

00:04:29   circle back to it after I talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/269">TS</a>]

00:04:30   this next bit here so this is the best [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/270">TS</a>]

00:04:33   part about having a podcast or popular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/273">TS</a>]

00:04:35   podcast we got in an email from someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/275">TS</a>]

00:04:38   who used to design toasters at Sunbeam [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/278">TS</a>]

00:04:41   in the 1980s and he described all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/281">TS</a>]

00:04:45   different aspects of toasters and why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/285">TS</a>]

00:04:48   I'm unhappy with my toaster a nice long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/288">TS</a>]

00:04:50   email this is exactly the kind of thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/290">TS</a>]

00:04:52   you're looking for like an expert guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/292">TS</a>]

00:04:53   who's been there and wrenches oh yeah to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/293">TS</a>]

00:04:55   tell us about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/295">TS</a>]

00:04:56   toaster technology so I'm not gonna go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/296">TS</a>]

00:04:59   into every detail that he got we got two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/299">TS</a>]

00:05:00   but the main thing he pinpointed about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/300">TS</a>]

00:05:03   my toaster and the reason it takes so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/303">TS</a>]

00:05:05   long is because it uses a steel tube [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/305">TS</a>]

00:05:07   with internal coiled resistant wire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/307">TS</a>]

00:05:09   surrounding an electrical insulating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/309">TS</a>]

00:05:11   chip to produce heat I think I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/311">TS</a>]

00:05:13   mangled that but anyway it's the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/313">TS</a>]

00:05:15   that heats up the thing that turns [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/315">TS</a>]

00:05:16   orange is of a particular type that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/316">TS</a>]

00:05:18   takes a long time to heat up and his his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/318">TS</a>]

00:05:20   estimate was that it's going to take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/320">TS</a>]

00:05:21   like at least two minutes before that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/321">TS</a>]

00:05:23   thing starts glowing orange and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/323">TS</a>]

00:05:25   glowing orange part is important because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/325">TS</a>]

00:05:27   toasters heat up things in different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/327">TS</a>]

00:05:29   ways the way he listed was a conduction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/329">TS</a>]

00:05:31   convection and radiation and radiation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/331">TS</a>]

00:05:34   heat is the one you want to like brown [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/334">TS</a>]

00:05:36   your toast and that only happens once [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/336">TS</a>]

00:05:38   you once the thing turns orange is a my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/338">TS</a>]

00:05:41   impression for reading this email so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/341">TS</a>]

00:05:44   since it takes my toaster two minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/344">TS</a>]

00:05:46   even to get that thing glowing orange [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/346">TS</a>]

00:05:47   right away that that first two minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/347">TS</a>]

00:05:49   is not making you toast what it is doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/349">TS</a>]

00:05:51   is it basically baking your bread or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/351">TS</a>]

00:05:54   turning it into a crouton or doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/354">TS</a>]

00:05:56   something that's not real like it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/356">TS</a>]

00:05:58   making it hot and strong it out but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/358">TS</a>]

00:06:00   not toasting it and the the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/360">TS</a>]

00:06:02   benchmark for good toast is apparently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/362">TS</a>]

00:06:04   you want the outside to be toasted and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/364">TS</a>]

00:06:05   like lightly carbonized right or browned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/365">TS</a>]

00:06:07   or whatever but the inside should not be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/367">TS</a>]

00:06:09   all dried out it should still be like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/369">TS</a>]

00:06:11   moist you shouldn't have taken every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/371">TS</a>]

00:06:12   ounce of water and evaporated it out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/372">TS</a>]

00:06:14   the middle of the toast so the longer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/374">TS</a>]

00:06:15   that piece of bread sits in there the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/375">TS</a>]

00:06:17   more it becomes a crouton the less it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/377">TS</a>]

00:06:18   becomes toast which is why slot toasters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/378">TS</a>]

00:06:20   make better toast because they very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/380">TS</a>]

00:06:22   quickly heat the outsides of the bread [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/382">TS</a>]

00:06:23   and yes they do it evenly and so on and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/383">TS</a>]

00:06:25   so forth and because they do it so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/385">TS</a>]

00:06:26   quickly the inside is still moist when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/386">TS</a>]

00:06:28   they pop up you've got a toasted outside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/388">TS</a>]

00:06:29   the end of oyster inside now obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/389">TS</a>]

00:06:31   I'm not a toast kind of store all I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/391">TS</a>]

00:06:33   want is the top and bottom to be cooked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/393">TS</a>]

00:06:34   relatively evenly and I can see how what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/394">TS</a>]

00:06:36   what he's saying is true that if I had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/396">TS</a>]

00:06:38   slot toaster the inside of my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/398">TS</a>]

00:06:41   would be more moist than it is in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/401">TS</a>]

00:06:42   toaster because for the first two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/402">TS</a>]

00:06:43   minutes is just you know taking moisture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/403">TS</a>]

00:06:45   out of the bread that that doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/405">TS</a>]

00:06:48   magically give me more counter space but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/408">TS</a>]

00:06:49   it does make me consider like is there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/409">TS</a>]

00:06:51   something else I can move on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/411">TS</a>]

00:06:53   counters to make room for a slot toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/413">TS</a>]

00:06:55   because maybe this is worth doing if I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/415">TS</a>]

00:06:57   can find a good slot toaster just to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/417">TS</a>]

00:07:01   just to see what the what it's like to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/421">TS</a>]

00:07:02   have better toast but I think I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/422">TS</a>]

00:07:04   also be happy with a working toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/424">TS</a>]

00:07:07   oven so this guy I should give his name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/427">TS</a>]

00:07:10   there Lowell Burnham some other thing he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/430">TS</a>]

00:07:12   mentioned was uh different kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/432">TS</a>]

00:07:14   heating elements and toasters another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/434">TS</a>]

00:07:16   one is a a radiant coil inside a clear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/436">TS</a>]

00:07:19   quartz tube which apparently glows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/439">TS</a>]

00:07:22   orange in about 15 seconds it gets much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/442">TS</a>]

00:07:23   hotter than the steel thing does the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/443">TS</a>]

00:07:28   only problem with that is that it could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/448">TS</a>]

00:07:29   have a tendency to scorch because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/449">TS</a>]

00:07:32   does get so hot so it's like it's like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/452">TS</a>]

00:07:34   balancing between the steel elements [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/454">TS</a>]

00:07:36   that I have that probably do a better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/456">TS</a>]

00:07:38   job of baking without scorching versus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/458">TS</a>]

00:07:40   these which do a better job of toasting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/460">TS</a>]

00:07:41   and it is apparently a fairly big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/461">TS</a>]

00:07:45   balancing act to get a toaster oven that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/465">TS</a>]

00:07:46   does toast well does oven well it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/466">TS</a>]

00:07:48   constant trade-off which is why he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/468">TS</a>]

00:07:50   basically saying you're never going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/470">TS</a>]

00:07:51   get a toaster oven that makes his good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/471">TS</a>]

00:07:53   toast is slot toaster because it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/473">TS</a>]

00:07:55   trying to do too many different things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/475">TS</a>]

00:07:56   and everything that works towards making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/476">TS</a>]

00:07:58   better toast works against the oven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/478">TS</a>]

00:08:00   function I I still was like something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/480">TS</a>]

00:08:02   that has a reasonable balance and I felt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/482">TS</a>]

00:08:03   like I had a reasonable balance back in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/483">TS</a>]

00:08:05   the day he mentioned at the old Black & [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/485">TS</a>]

00:08:07   Decker I was talking about was actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/487">TS</a>]

00:08:09   AG small appliances oven that changed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/489">TS</a>]

00:08:12   owners when G was sold to black & decker [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/492">TS</a>]

00:08:15   so it should it shows that there is some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/495">TS</a>]

00:08:18   memory of like that one model that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/498">TS</a>]

00:08:20   were all talking about it rang up I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/500">TS</a>]

00:08:21   also saying Westinghouse I don't know if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/501">TS</a>]

00:08:23   that was a related brand but back in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/503">TS</a>]

00:08:24   day when there were fewer models [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/504">TS</a>]

00:08:26   apparently whatever balance that one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/506">TS</a>]

00:08:28   struck over many years of refinement and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/508">TS</a>]

00:08:30   development I liked that balance and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/510">TS</a>]

00:08:32   I could find one that had that balance I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/512">TS</a>]

00:08:34   would take it and it was nice to see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/514">TS</a>]

00:08:36   that in the show notes for last week's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/516">TS</a>]

00:08:37   show after it was over you added your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/517">TS</a>]

00:08:39   toaster and and Marko's toaster and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/519">TS</a>]

00:08:42   I added my toaster so if you go back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/522">TS</a>]

00:08:44   last week's show notes you can find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/524">TS</a>]

00:08:45   amazon links to all three of our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/525">TS</a>]

00:08:47   toasters and compare them if you look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/527">TS</a>]

00:08:49   the amazon reviews or my toaster there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/529">TS</a>]

00:08:51   some horrible ones in there nobody likes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/531">TS</a>]

00:08:53   it surprise surprise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/533">TS</a>]

00:08:54   one person sided exploded firing shards [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/534">TS</a>]

00:08:57   of glass everywhere mine has done that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/537">TS</a>]

00:08:59   yet but it's definitely not a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/539">TS</a>]

00:09:00   toaster yeah your toaster was like 180 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/540">TS</a>]

00:09:03   bucks as predicted right and Marcos was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/543">TS</a>]

00:09:06   in that price range too but I got to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/546">TS</a>]

00:09:07   tell you after looking at your toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/547">TS</a>]

00:09:08   and hearing your your reviews of it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/548">TS</a>]

00:09:10   looking at the reviews online or reading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/550">TS</a>]

00:09:12   the manual and looking at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/552">TS</a>]

00:09:13   measurements and everything I'm tempted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/553">TS</a>]

00:09:15   to give your toaster a try so it's I put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/555">TS</a>]

00:09:18   it on the Amazon wish list well I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/558">TS</a>]

00:09:19   tell I'll tell you what you my wife [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/559">TS</a>]

00:09:22   researched this toaster and she is she [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/562">TS</a>]

00:09:24   is the best at researching things and at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/564">TS</a>]

00:09:27   finding you know I don't want to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/567">TS</a>]

00:09:30   finding deals because it's not about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/570">TS</a>]

00:09:31   that it's finding the right quality to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/571">TS</a>]

00:09:35   cost ratio and she did a lot she did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/575">TS</a>]

00:09:38   liked a lot of research on this toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/578">TS</a>]

00:09:40   and because I had to look a certain way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/580">TS</a>]

00:09:42   and be a certain thing with the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/582">TS</a>]

00:09:44   thing and she this is really the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/584">TS</a>]

00:09:47   culmination of a lot of her you know her [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/587">TS</a>]

00:09:50   research combined with my somewhat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/590">TS</a>]

00:09:52   specific requirements of the that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/592">TS</a>]

00:09:54   know when I do want to cook something in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/594">TS</a>]

00:09:57   or do something it has to be a certain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/597">TS</a>]

00:09:58   thing as to easy-to-clean really like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/598">TS</a>]

00:10:01   this toaster I don't think Marcos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/601">TS</a>]

00:10:02   toaster is worth your time I get I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/602">TS</a>]

00:10:05   didn't but is on my wish list that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/605">TS</a>]

00:10:06   interface look bad and I that is his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/606">TS</a>]

00:10:08   buttons were underneath the lit the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/608">TS</a>]

00:10:11   front lid thing that flaps down like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/611">TS</a>]

00:10:13   when you open it you're covering the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/613">TS</a>]

00:10:14   controls that seems silly to my strange [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/614">TS</a>]

00:10:16   this is also I think a little bit bigger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/616">TS</a>]

00:10:18   your measurements are actually very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/618">TS</a>]

00:10:19   similar to the measurements of my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/619">TS</a>]

00:10:20   toaster so it would fit in the spot I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/620">TS</a>]

00:10:22   have on it for the counter so anyway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/622">TS</a>]

00:10:25   it's on the list maybe I'll ask for it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/625">TS</a>]

00:10:26   as a Christmas present I maybe I will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/626">TS</a>]

00:10:28   buy it for you guys because don't that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/628">TS</a>]

00:10:30   be an exciting Christmas toaster maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/630">TS</a>]

00:10:32   we should take a little donation from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/632">TS</a>]

00:10:34   the audience that one that want you to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/634">TS</a>]

00:10:36   have this and we you know take a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/636">TS</a>]

00:10:38   funds or something you don't have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/638">TS</a>]

00:10:40   pass the Hat I can I can afford a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/640">TS</a>]

00:10:42   toaster it's just a question of pulling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/642">TS</a>]

00:10:45   the trigger deciding that I want this in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/645">TS</a>]

00:10:46   my life and that I can't handle the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/646">TS</a>]

00:10:47   toaster that I have now or should I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/647">TS</a>]

00:10:49   continue to use the toaster that I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/649">TS</a>]

00:10:50   now until it actually does melt into a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/650">TS</a>]

00:10:52   pile of cheap plastic and bright metal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/652">TS</a>]

00:10:54   well because I have no idea where we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/654">TS</a>]

00:10:56   going to be living and and when we'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/656">TS</a>]

00:10:59   actually get our stuff into that place I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/659">TS</a>]

00:11:02   if you can wait for however many weeks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/662">TS</a>]

00:11:05   it takes to for all of that to be sorted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/665">TS</a>]

00:11:07   out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/667">TS</a>]

00:11:08   if you can wait then when the toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/668">TS</a>]

00:11:10   finally arrives here in Austin I will I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/670">TS</a>]

00:11:13   we I will time it I will make a video [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/673">TS</a>]

00:11:16   for you I'll do whatever you like just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/676">TS</a>]

00:11:18   just to stop watch the cold start in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/678">TS</a>]

00:11:21   morning put the bread in close the door [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/681">TS</a>]

00:11:23   press those button start the clock take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/683">TS</a>]

00:11:25   it out when you think it's done to your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/685">TS</a>]

00:11:27   satisfaction I didn't go super dark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/687">TS</a>]

00:11:28   toast it was you know just brown it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/688">TS</a>]

00:11:30   one but also by the way I took mine out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/690">TS</a>]

00:11:32   when the bottom was brown the top was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/692">TS</a>]

00:11:34   not even toasted yet because my toaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/694">TS</a>]

00:11:35   is so horrible does one side so if I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/695">TS</a>]

00:11:37   waited for both you can't wait for both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/697">TS</a>]

00:11:38   sides to be done because by the time the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/698">TS</a>]

00:11:39   top is done the bottom is burnt so I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/699">TS</a>]

00:11:41   going entirely bought based on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/701">TS</a>]

00:11:43   bottom so it would take even longer if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/703">TS</a>]

00:11:45   I'd waited for the top to get some color [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/705">TS</a>]

00:11:46   on I have a bad toaster is the moral not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/706">TS</a>]

00:11:50   terrible all right a couple more quick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/710">TS</a>]

00:11:54   follow-ups so I was talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/714">TS</a>]

00:11:56   Twitter and in-band signaling the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/716">TS</a>]

00:11:58   day I'm surprised I didn't see more of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/718">TS</a>]

00:12:01   this in the chat room one or two people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/721">TS</a>]

00:12:02   in the chat room picked it up but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/722">TS</a>]

00:12:04   apparently I'm completely out of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/724">TS</a>]

00:12:05   loop on Twitter because in May of last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/725">TS</a>]

00:12:08   year at some presentation in London [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/728">TS</a>]

00:12:13   Twitter announced a new thing called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/733">TS</a>]

00:12:15   Twitter annotations which is just what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/735">TS</a>]

00:12:17   it sounds like it allows you when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/737">TS</a>]

00:12:19   sending a tweet to just tack on a bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/739">TS</a>]

00:12:20   of annotations that's metadata it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/740">TS</a>]

00:12:22   exactly what I was talking about it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/742">TS</a>]

00:12:24   basically arbitrary metadata for your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/744">TS</a>]

00:12:26   tweet so you could put in whatever you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/746">TS</a>]

00:12:28   want there and then clients just have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/748">TS</a>]

00:12:30   read that metadata and apply it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/750">TS</a>]

00:12:32   apparently this is what Twitter itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/752">TS</a>]

00:12:34   uses or something similar to do it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/754">TS</a>]

00:12:36   like link short and stuff so that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/756">TS</a>]

00:12:38   text it's not really what I want it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/758">TS</a>]

00:12:40   because the text in tweet still has the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/760">TS</a>]

00:12:42   link shortener length the TCO thing but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/762">TS</a>]

00:12:44   then the annotation is tell you what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/764">TS</a>]

00:12:45   real URL is so you don't have to go look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/765">TS</a>]

00:12:47   it up through the shortener or anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/767">TS</a>]

00:12:48   like that but you could in theory use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/768">TS</a>]

00:12:50   these annotations for everything for you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/770">TS</a>]

00:12:51   know who you're applying to us you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/771">TS</a>]

00:12:53   wouldn't have to have the @ name at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/773">TS</a>]

00:12:55   beginning of the tweet links you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/775">TS</a>]

00:12:58   you could just have like byte-range [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/778">TS</a>]

00:12:59   offsets and or you can even do like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/779">TS</a>]

00:13:01   markup type thing where you just tag the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/781">TS</a>]

00:13:03   the the pieces of information and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/783">TS</a>]

00:13:05   link them back to a URL like basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/785">TS</a>]

00:13:08   there is a facility for doing this the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/788">TS</a>]

00:13:10   fact that it hasn't been picked up was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/790">TS</a>]

00:13:11   probably just momentum because you need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/791">TS</a>]

00:13:13   you need the clients to support it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/793">TS</a>]

00:13:15   it's kind of a chicken and egg thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/795">TS</a>]

00:13:16   who's going to be the first client to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/796">TS</a>]

00:13:17   support this type of thing or who's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/797">TS</a>]

00:13:18   going to be the first client to generate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/798">TS</a>]

00:13:20   these types of tweets like sort of rich [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/800">TS</a>]

00:13:22   Exce tweets with annotations on them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/802">TS</a>]

00:13:23   when they're not sure that anybody else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/803">TS</a>]

00:13:25   will be able to see it or that it'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/805">TS</a>]

00:13:26   look all weird and screwed up when other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/806">TS</a>]

00:13:28   people see it so the transition is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/808">TS</a>]

00:13:30   always a difficult part transitioning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/810">TS</a>]

00:13:31   from clients that work the way they do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/811">TS</a>]

00:13:33   now to ones that use this annotations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/813">TS</a>]

00:13:35   instead of everything being in line so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/815">TS</a>]

00:13:36   it may be too little too late but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/816">TS</a>]

00:13:38   can't really fault twitter for not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/818">TS</a>]

00:13:39   having an api the only weird thing about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/819">TS</a>]

00:13:42   it is that the the total size of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/822">TS</a>]

00:13:43   annotations can't be any more than 512 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/823">TS</a>]

00:13:46   bytes they're really big on their data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/826">TS</a>]

00:13:47   limits so you don't get you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/827">TS</a>]

00:13:49   probably blow through that with you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/829">TS</a>]

00:13:51   a bunch of long URLs in a tweet and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/831">TS</a>]

00:13:54   already you're out of them this is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/834">TS</a>]

00:13:55   total size of like the entire annotation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/835">TS</a>]

00:13:57   not just the values this is I think like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/837">TS</a>]

00:13:58   you can you pack it up to JSON or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/838">TS</a>]

00:14:00   whatever that whole thing has to be like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/840">TS</a>]

00:14:01   512 bytes and they say they're hoping to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/841">TS</a>]

00:14:03   increase that up to 2k but it's not like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/843">TS</a>]

00:14:06   for attaching images for example or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/846">TS</a>]

00:14:07   anything like that but I do have an API [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/847">TS</a>]

00:14:09   for it and the fact that I'd never heard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/849">TS</a>]

00:14:12   of it shows just how few clients are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/852">TS</a>]

00:14:13   apparently using this it's kind of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/853">TS</a>]

00:14:16   shame that it's out there and it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/856">TS</a>]

00:14:19   seem to be a clear transition path maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/859">TS</a>]

00:14:21   when Twitter has completely wiped out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/861">TS</a>]

00:14:23   all the third-party clients they will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/863">TS</a>]

00:14:25   more free to more quickly innovate with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/865">TS</a>]

00:14:27   the clients they own and control adding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/867">TS</a>]

00:14:30   support for these annotations alright [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/870">TS</a>]

00:14:35   what else will be having what else have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/875">TS</a>]

00:14:36   you got in there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/876">TS</a>]

00:14:37   we're definitely yeah intel SSD [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/877">TS</a>]

00:14:40   warranties are now up to five years a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/880">TS</a>]

00:14:42   bunch of people sent me that when we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/882">TS</a>]

00:14:43   talking about SSD reliability did you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/883">TS</a>]

00:14:45   see that story go by this week no I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/885">TS</a>]

00:14:47   totally missed that one I haven't been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/887">TS</a>]

00:14:48   following used as much because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/888">TS</a>]

00:14:50   everything going on what did it say so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/890">TS</a>]

00:14:52   it's like Intel's new line of SSDs like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/892">TS</a>]

00:14:55   the you know they're they're brand new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/895">TS</a>]

00:14:56   best performing SSDs now have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/896">TS</a>]

00:14:58   five-year warranty on and you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/898">TS</a>]

00:15:01   press releases say you know Intel is so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/901">TS</a>]

00:15:03   confident and so happy with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/903">TS</a>]

00:15:04   reliability of its of its devices that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/904">TS</a>]

00:15:06   it's increasing the warranty on these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/906">TS</a>]

00:15:07   things to five years and they're they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/907">TS</a>]

00:15:08   working great and blah blah blah and a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/908">TS</a>]

00:15:10   lot of people sent this in to me you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/910">TS</a>]

00:15:12   know saying see your worries are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/912">TS</a>]

00:15:13   unfounded because these things have five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/913">TS</a>]

00:15:15   year warranties and hard drives most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/915">TS</a>]

00:15:16   hard drives only have three so SSDs you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/916">TS</a>]

00:15:19   know they must have a lot of confidence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/919">TS</a>]

00:15:21   that these things are going to last a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/921">TS</a>]

00:15:24   long time when I see a company increase [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/924">TS</a>]

00:15:26   its warranties like that and do a press [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/926">TS</a>]

00:15:28   release about it it makes me more wary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/928">TS</a>]

00:15:30   maybe them too cynical more worried [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/930">TS</a>]

00:15:31   about reliability not less because very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/931">TS</a>]

00:15:34   rarely does it man [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/934">TS</a>]

00:15:35   factor increase its warranty with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/935">TS</a>]

00:15:37   fanfare unless it's a reaction against [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/937">TS</a>]

00:15:41   any you know bad PR that they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/941">TS</a>]

00:15:44   reliability problems you know like they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/944">TS</a>]

00:15:46   want to show that we are not like those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/946">TS</a>]

00:15:47   other SS all right reliability problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/947">TS</a>]

00:15:50   ours are really safe trust us but I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/950">TS</a>]

00:15:53   you could say like well who cares what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/953">TS</a>]

00:15:54   the reasoning is five years is still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/954">TS</a>]

00:15:55   five years and whether they're doing or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/955">TS</a>]

00:15:57   for cynical reasons or not or just to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/957">TS</a>]

00:15:58   try to get you to buy their stuff or try [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/958">TS</a>]

00:16:00   to counter the prevailing story about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/960">TS</a>]

00:16:02   reliability who cares you still get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/962">TS</a>]

00:16:04   free one for five years so I am pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/964">TS</a>]

00:16:06   much happy that their increase in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/966">TS</a>]

00:16:07   warranty to five years but I am still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/967">TS</a>]

00:16:09   suspicious of the reliability and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/969">TS</a>]

00:16:11   other thing about this warranty is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/971">TS</a>]

00:16:13   it's not like five years period full [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/973">TS</a>]

00:16:15   stop it's five years but there's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/975">TS</a>]

00:16:17   fine print text that says but we have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/977">TS</a>]

00:16:20   our own little internal calibration on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/980">TS</a>]

00:16:22   each drive that says you get X number of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/982">TS</a>]

00:16:25   gigabytes of i/o per unit of time and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/985">TS</a>]

00:16:28   you blow through a we consider to be the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/988">TS</a>]

00:16:29   the lifetimes work of this SSD and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/989">TS</a>]

00:16:32   you blow through that in a year and a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/992">TS</a>]

00:16:33   half or two years because you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/993">TS</a>]

00:16:34   constantly reading writing huge blocks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/994">TS</a>]

00:16:36   well then tough you don't get your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/996">TS</a>]

00:16:37   warranty and they have a different a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/997">TS</a>]

00:16:40   different price range for like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1000">TS</a>]

00:16:41   enterprise usage versus regular usage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1001">TS</a>]

00:16:43   and while I was clicking around those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1003">TS</a>]

00:16:46   stories and so someone else's link I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1006">TS</a>]

00:16:47   wish I could find it but I couldn't find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1007">TS</a>]

00:16:49   ever the show notes but they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1009">TS</a>]

00:16:50   showing what their drive was reporting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1010">TS</a>]

00:16:52   as the useful life left in it after [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1012">TS</a>]

00:16:55   using it for a year because you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1015">TS</a>]

00:16:56   just you can query the drive and say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1016">TS</a>]

00:16:58   what how much life time you have left [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1018">TS</a>]

00:16:59   like sort of like the oil lifetime on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1019">TS</a>]

00:17:01   your car or whatever and he was way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1021">TS</a>]

00:17:03   farther through the lifetime his Drive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1023">TS</a>]

00:17:05   than he thought he would be after only a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1025">TS</a>]

00:17:06   year and a half or so I don't know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1026">TS</a>]

00:17:08   Intel's numbers are for the usage but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1028">TS</a>]

00:17:10   the fact that there's a tiered thing for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1030">TS</a>]

00:17:11   enterprise versus regular user and stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1031">TS</a>]

00:17:13   and the fact that the five-year thing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1033">TS</a>]

00:17:15   null and void if you go through what it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1035">TS</a>]

00:17:17   considers to be a reasonable amount of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1037">TS</a>]

00:17:19   i/o it just gets back to that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1039">TS</a>]

00:17:21   the nature of solid-state storage is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1041">TS</a>]

00:17:23   that there's a limited number of rights [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1043">TS</a>]

00:17:24   that you get and once you go through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1044">TS</a>]

00:17:26   them it's a physical limit on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1046">TS</a>]

00:17:28   storage that's that's it you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1048">TS</a>]

00:17:30   there's no getting around that so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1050">TS</a>]

00:17:31   you know they give you over capacity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1051">TS</a>]

00:17:32   sometimes that Enterprise drives to give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1052">TS</a>]

00:17:33   you like four or five times the space [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1053">TS</a>]

00:17:34   you actually need to give you the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1054">TS</a>]

00:17:36   Headroom to do all those right so when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1056">TS</a>]

00:17:38   you wear out a certain section of cells [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1058">TS</a>]

00:17:39   they move to another one yeah these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1059">TS</a>]

00:17:42   things will be started at in time I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1062">TS</a>]

00:17:44   think the warranty increase is a move in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1064">TS</a>]

00:17:46   the right direction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1066">TS</a>]

00:17:47   I just hope Intel doesn't lose it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1067">TS</a>]

00:17:48   on the warranty increase they probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1068">TS</a>]

00:17:50   won't because most people will buy these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1070">TS</a>]

00:17:51   things and not using that heavily and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1071">TS</a>]

00:17:53   it'll be fine but I'm feeling that I use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1073">TS</a>]

00:17:56   my drives pretty heavily giving them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1076">TS</a>]

00:17:58   have disc thrashing I see my system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1078">TS</a>]

00:18:00   doing most of the time especially with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1080">TS</a>]

00:18:02   all the backups constantly raising all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1082">TS</a>]

00:18:04   reading all this data downloading this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1084">TS</a>]

00:18:05   last night that so I continue to wait [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1085">TS</a>]

00:18:08   once I can get a one terabyte SSD for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1088">TS</a>]

00:18:11   reasonable price I will almost certainly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1091">TS</a>]

00:18:12   buy one but that day is not today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1092">TS</a>]

00:18:15   all right I think it's all the follow up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1095">TS</a>]

00:18:18   I have record time huh that was really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1098">TS</a>]

00:18:21   good time I mean 20 22 minutes not less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1101">TS</a>]

00:18:24   than that 18 cents yes it's a fantastic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1104">TS</a>]

00:18:27   you're under sponsor you're gonna stick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1107">TS</a>]

00:18:29   it in later I'll stick it in now this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1109">TS</a>]

00:18:33   episode is sponsored by harvest and time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1113">TS</a>]

00:18:34   tracking and invoicing web-based [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1114">TS</a>]

00:18:36   application you can send your clients [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1116">TS</a>]

00:18:38   beautiful professional invoices via [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1118">TS</a>]

00:18:41   email PDF or on the web you can accept [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1121">TS</a>]

00:18:43   online credit card and check payments [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1123">TS</a>]

00:18:44   and more you can even this is cool while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1124">TS</a>]

00:18:46   you're traveling I know you travel a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1126">TS</a>]

00:18:48   you fly a lot right John for work I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1128">TS</a>]

00:18:51   a lot of people do a lot of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1131">TS</a>]

00:18:53   aren't like us and they don't mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1133">TS</a>]

00:18:55   getting on planes and then when they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1135">TS</a>]

00:18:57   out there they want to you know they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1137">TS</a>]

00:18:59   want to expense stuff or they want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1139">TS</a>]

00:19:00   give they want to give their receipts to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1140">TS</a>]

00:19:03   the system how do they do that well with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1143">TS</a>]

00:19:05   this you could just you can take a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1145">TS</a>]

00:19:07   picture of your receipt and upload it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1147">TS</a>]

00:19:08   straight into the app how cool is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1148">TS</a>]

00:19:10   well harvest is free for 30-days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1150">TS</a>]

00:19:11   but if you use code five by five TV all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1151">TS</a>]

00:19:15   one word all upper case you'll get 50% [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1155">TS</a>]

00:19:17   off your first month after the 30 days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1157">TS</a>]

00:19:20   so check them out at get harvest calm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1160">TS</a>]

00:19:23   love these guys now let's let's make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1163">TS</a>]

00:19:25   worth their while go check these guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1165">TS</a>]

00:19:26   out get harvest calm I've heard so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1166">TS</a>]

00:19:30   horror stories of people who do travel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1170">TS</a>]

00:19:33   for work have the things they have to go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1173">TS</a>]

00:19:35   through to get reimbursed oh yeah are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1175">TS</a>]

00:19:37   the expenses that they incurred that did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1177">TS</a>]

00:19:38   not is perhaps the vision is the least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1178">TS</a>]

00:19:41   evolved part of corporate culture so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1181">TS</a>]

00:19:43   many other parts of you know have gotten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1183">TS</a>]

00:19:45   better over the years but that's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1185">TS</a>]

00:19:47   that that's where the trolls live in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1187">TS</a>]

00:19:50   department that tries to give you the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1190">TS</a>]

00:19:51   money for your cab fare or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1191">TS</a>]

00:19:55   alright ready for the show's topic I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1195">TS</a>]

00:19:59   so ready I'm ready [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1199">TS</a>]

00:20:00   you're not ready [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1200">TS</a>]

00:20:02   the topic you didn't want oh no not this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1202">TS</a>]

00:20:04   one yes this was this is the one all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1204">TS</a>]

00:20:07   right you're lucky it'll be it'll be it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1207">TS</a>]

00:20:08   you know it has to be short yeah you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1208">TS</a>]

00:20:10   your CE will suffer not too much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1210">TS</a>]

00:20:12   microwave ovens no oh so I'm gonna talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1212">TS</a>]

00:20:17   about the finder um this is something I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1217">TS</a>]

00:20:22   talked about a lot a while ago I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1222">TS</a>]

00:20:24   feel like I've talked about that much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1224">TS</a>]

00:20:26   since but people are sick of hearing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1226">TS</a>]

00:20:29   about it from me so there is sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1229">TS</a>]

00:20:32   this I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1232">TS</a>]

00:20:36   worn-out factor to the topic that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1236">TS</a>]

00:20:38   probably why you don't want to hear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1238">TS</a>]

00:20:39   about it but you're going to because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1239">TS</a>]

00:20:41   think it's time so I wrote about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1241">TS</a>]

00:20:44   originally about eight years ago makes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1244">TS</a>]

00:20:46   me feel old to say that but that's how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1246">TS</a>]

00:20:47   long it was and I think probably to this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1247">TS</a>]

00:20:51   day it is my least understood article [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1251">TS</a>]

00:20:55   mostly because I did a bad job of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1255">TS</a>]

00:20:57   communicating it's not the fault of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1257">TS</a>]

00:21:00   reader that it was least understood it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1260">TS</a>]

00:21:01   it's my fault now when I go back and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1261">TS</a>]

00:21:04   read it it looks like everything I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1264">TS</a>]

00:21:06   wanted to say is in there so it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1266">TS</a>]

00:21:09   like I didn't say what I wanted to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1269">TS</a>]

00:21:10   but I said a bunch of other stuff too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1270">TS</a>]

00:21:11   and if you're not me you don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1271">TS</a>]

00:21:13   which stuff you should be concentrating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1273">TS</a>]

00:21:14   on like those it's just too big and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1274">TS</a>]

00:21:16   flabby really this is linked in the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1276">TS</a>]

00:21:18   notes it's the first link in the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1278">TS</a>]

00:21:19   notes the title of the article was about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1279">TS</a>]

00:21:21   the finder from April 2003 I tried to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1281">TS</a>]

00:21:26   when I did a retrospective like last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1286">TS</a>]

00:21:28   year about ten years of Mac os10 reviews [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1288">TS</a>]

00:21:30   I tried to summarize the issues that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1290">TS</a>]

00:21:33   were described originally in that 2003 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1293">TS</a>]

00:21:36   article I think that's a bitter you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1296">TS</a>]

00:21:39   read six paragraphs and figure out what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1299">TS</a>]

00:21:41   back I'm talking about summary but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1301">TS</a>]

00:21:43   does assume knowledge of reason that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1303">TS</a>]

00:21:45   came before it I think so I'm not sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1305">TS</a>]

00:21:46   how good it is for a starting point but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1306">TS</a>]

00:21:48   I have that in the show notes as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1308">TS</a>]

00:21:49   the page that link - you just have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1309">TS</a>]

00:21:51   scroll down a little bit to get to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1311">TS</a>]

00:21:52   part where I talk about the finder again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1312">TS</a>]

00:21:53   so this time on the show I'm going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1313">TS</a>]

00:21:56   give it another another run at this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1316">TS</a>]

00:21:58   topic because maybe talking I'll be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1318">TS</a>]

00:22:00   better than I was writing about it I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1320">TS</a>]

00:22:02   really doubt it but we'll give it a go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1322">TS</a>]

00:22:04   I'm going to try slightly different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1324">TS</a>]

00:22:05   angle this time because every other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1325">TS</a>]

00:22:07   thing that I've tried has not worked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1327">TS</a>]

00:22:09   that well this requires some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1329">TS</a>]

00:22:13   participation from you meaning you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1333">TS</a>]

00:22:16   ask questions and and challenge me on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1336">TS</a>]

00:22:18   things don't make sense to you because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1338">TS</a>]

00:22:20   really just talked about and thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1340">TS</a>]

00:22:21   about this so much and maybe glossing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1341">TS</a>]

00:22:23   over things okay thank you for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1343">TS</a>]

00:22:24   permission to do that beyond yours be on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1344">TS</a>]

00:22:26   your toes all right all right so what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1346">TS</a>]

00:22:30   what the heck are we talking about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1350">TS</a>]

00:22:33   is my new ankle a new angle as as I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1353">TS</a>]

00:22:35   usually do on the show is to start from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1355">TS</a>]

00:22:38   the history and I will it put it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1358">TS</a>]

00:22:41   historical context I'll get that bus so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1361">TS</a>]

00:22:46   what I'm going to describe here is what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1366">TS</a>]

00:22:50   were the earliest sort of mass-market PC [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1370">TS</a>]

00:22:53   interfaces what were they like like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1373">TS</a>]

00:22:56   know pcs that were used more than by a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1376">TS</a>]

00:22:58   dozen or so people we don't really like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1378">TS</a>]

00:23:01   the first time I don't like Apple to IBM [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1381">TS</a>]

00:23:04   PC the first time the personal computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1384">TS</a>]

00:23:06   started to appear as a phrase and Time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1386">TS</a>]

00:23:08   magazine and stuff like that the dawning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1388">TS</a>]

00:23:09   of the PC age [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1389">TS</a>]

00:23:10   so what were those interfaces like and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1390">TS</a>]

00:23:13   how I'm going to categorize them as they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1393">TS</a>]

00:23:15   were like conversations so you turn on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1395">TS</a>]

00:23:18   this this PC thing that you've got and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1398">TS</a>]

00:23:20   it would do some stuff and eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1400">TS</a>]

00:23:22   you'd be faced with sort of a blinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1402">TS</a>]

00:23:25   prompt asking for input so that was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1405">TS</a>]

00:23:27   conversation starter was the computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1407">TS</a>]

00:23:29   saying to you and what what will you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1409">TS</a>]

00:23:32   have me do if I do like some instruction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1412">TS</a>]

00:23:36   right and there's really no indication [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1416">TS</a>]

00:23:37   what it is you should do with that like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1417">TS</a>]

00:23:41   you have the paper manual that came with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1421">TS</a>]

00:23:43   the computer and you could read about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1423">TS</a>]

00:23:45   you can learn something but just looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1425">TS</a>]

00:23:48   at if you just brought the computer out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1428">TS</a>]

00:23:49   of the box you never use a PC before you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1429">TS</a>]

00:23:51   turned it on you got that blinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1431">TS</a>]

00:23:52   prompt assuming you could even figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1432">TS</a>]

00:23:54   out that it wanted you to type on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1434">TS</a>]

00:23:55   keyboard to enter text at that prompt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1435">TS</a>]

00:23:57   which you would probably figure out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1437">TS</a>]

00:23:58   shortly you don't know what to type but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1438">TS</a>]

00:24:01   presuming you read the manual whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1441">TS</a>]

00:24:02   you know you would type instruction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1442">TS</a>]

00:24:04   that's your side of the conversation and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1444">TS</a>]

00:24:05   then you hit return to send it to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1445">TS</a>]

00:24:07   computer and the computer would give you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1447">TS</a>]

00:24:09   an answer that read to tell you the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1449">TS</a>]

00:24:10   result of the question that you asked or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1450">TS</a>]

00:24:12   maybe you would ask follow-up questions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1452">TS</a>]

00:24:13   or would do something in response to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1453">TS</a>]

00:24:14   your command but it was basically a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1454">TS</a>]

00:24:16   conversation you tell what to do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1456">TS</a>]

00:24:18   gives information back to you tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1458">TS</a>]

00:24:20   something different it gives information [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1460">TS</a>]

00:24:21   back back and forth right and that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1461">TS</a>]

00:24:24   the dominant paradigm of using a PC as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1464">TS</a>]

00:24:28   far as people were concerned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1468">TS</a>]

00:24:30   basically until the Macintosh I mean and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1470">TS</a>]

00:24:33   again I'm only talking mass-market and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1473">TS</a>]

00:24:34   want to get email from the people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1474">TS</a>]

00:24:35   will tell me that you know such-and-such [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1475">TS</a>]

00:24:37   computer had a GUI before the Mac and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1477">TS</a>]

00:24:38   everything that Mac was the one that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1478">TS</a>]

00:24:40   popularized this for better or for worse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1480">TS</a>]

00:24:42   and it you know it gets the credit in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1482">TS</a>]

00:24:44   history so when the Macintosh came [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1484">TS</a>]

00:24:48   around and it started to be appear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1488">TS</a>]

00:24:49   magazines and everything it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1489">TS</a>]

00:24:50   different experience you turned on a Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1490">TS</a>]

00:24:52   when you first got out of the box and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1492">TS</a>]

00:24:54   you didn't get a command prompt so there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1494">TS</a>]

00:24:57   was no you know the reason you got a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1497">TS</a>]

00:24:58   command prompt models other computers is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1498">TS</a>]

00:24:59   it was like usually basic or something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1499">TS</a>]

00:25:01   built-in so what you were typing at in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1501">TS</a>]

00:25:02   the beginning was probably a basic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1502">TS</a>]

00:25:04   prompt or you were going to type some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1504">TS</a>]

00:25:05   sort of command to tell it what Drive to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1505">TS</a>]

00:25:07   load you know the program out of or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1507">TS</a>]

00:25:10   whatever to boot from this driver to run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1510">TS</a>]

00:25:11   this program and this driver something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1511">TS</a>]

00:25:12   like that when you turn it on a Mac you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1512">TS</a>]

00:25:14   didn't get a prompt of any kind and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1514">TS</a>]

00:25:16   you did if your just took it out of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1516">TS</a>]

00:25:17   box plugged in turns it on what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1517">TS</a>]

00:25:18   would get is a picture on the screen of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1518">TS</a>]

00:25:21   what was supposed to be a floppy disk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1521">TS</a>]

00:25:23   which may or may not have been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1523">TS</a>]

00:25:24   recognizable to people because these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1524">TS</a>]

00:25:25   disks look a little bit different than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1525">TS</a>]

00:25:26   the older floppy disks with a blinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1526">TS</a>]

00:25:28   question mark on it and I was trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1528">TS</a>]

00:25:30   tell you like that's it's it's visual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1530">TS</a>]

00:25:32   way of saying disk do you have a disk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1532">TS</a>]

00:25:34   for me and there's nothing you could do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1534">TS</a>]

00:25:36   with that screen you couldn't type stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1536">TS</a>]

00:25:38   there was no command prompt you couldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1538">TS</a>]

00:25:40   you know click on anything even if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1540">TS</a>]

00:25:42   know how to use the mouse it was saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1542">TS</a>]

00:25:43   that it needed a disk with pictures but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1543">TS</a>]

00:25:46   not with words which is interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1546">TS</a>]

00:25:48   because it saves on localization you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1548">TS</a>]

00:25:50   know obviously this has to be in the ROM [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1550">TS</a>]

00:25:51   you don't have to localize the ROM so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1551">TS</a>]

00:25:53   use a picture of the floppy disk with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1553">TS</a>]

00:25:54   question mark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1554">TS</a>]

00:25:55   assuming you figured out that that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1555">TS</a>]

00:25:58   wanted a disk you take the disk the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1558">TS</a>]

00:26:00   computer came with and you shove it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1560">TS</a>]

00:26:02   there and it would start going through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1562">TS</a>]

00:26:03   all this stuff would bring up a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1563">TS</a>]

00:26:04   box it says welcome to Macintosh and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1564">TS</a>]

00:26:06   eventually would boot into what we now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1566">TS</a>]

00:26:09   know is the finder but what if you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1569">TS</a>]

00:26:11   just looking at this what you would say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1571">TS</a>]

00:26:11   is a bunch of pictures on the screen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1571">TS</a>]

00:26:13   with little rectangles that look kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1573">TS</a>]

00:26:16   like little pieces of paper with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1576">TS</a>]

00:26:17   Kalama faulted and little diamond shapes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1577">TS</a>]

00:26:19   and then windows with scroll bars and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1579">TS</a>]

00:26:21   all this sorts of stuff and it wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1581">TS</a>]

00:26:24   asking you for anything there wasn't a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1584">TS</a>]

00:26:26   prompt to we're expecting you to type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1586">TS</a>]

00:26:27   some commands it was more like you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1587">TS</a>]

00:26:30   looking at this thing now that the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1590">TS</a>]

00:26:32   was the desktop the desktop metaphor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1592">TS</a>]

00:26:34   when when people are writing about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1594">TS</a>]

00:26:36   Macintosh early on that's what they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1596">TS</a>]

00:26:37   they love to talk about like yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1597">TS</a>]

00:26:39   there's a little trash can in the corner [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1599">TS</a>]

00:26:41   isn't it adorable and these little icons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1601">TS</a>]

00:26:42   look like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1602">TS</a>]

00:26:43   it just is just like an office not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1603">TS</a>]

00:26:45   really a desk I was like an office you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1605">TS</a>]

00:26:47   know your office is a trash can your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1607">TS</a>]

00:26:49   office has folders your office has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1609">TS</a>]

00:26:50   pieces of paper you know those things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1610">TS</a>]

00:26:51   right yeah and this is what people got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1611">TS</a>]

00:26:54   stuck on especially in the early days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1614">TS</a>]

00:26:55   everybody talked about the Mac like wow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1615">TS</a>]

00:26:56   it's easy to use because it uses this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1616">TS</a>]

00:26:58   metaphor of things that people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1618">TS</a>]

00:27:00   familiar with right you don't have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1620">TS</a>]

00:27:01   learn very much to use it right but they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1621">TS</a>]

00:27:04   were saying like it's because because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1624">TS</a>]

00:27:05   people already know what a trash can is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1625">TS</a>]

00:27:06   and because we have you know that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1626">TS</a>]

00:27:08   graphical capabilities to draw something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1628">TS</a>]

00:27:10   that people will recognize as trash can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1630">TS</a>]

00:27:11   but the pixels are really small right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1631">TS</a>]

00:27:12   and we have good artists and stuff and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1632">TS</a>]

00:27:14   we can draw this little thing it looks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1634">TS</a>]

00:27:15   like a folder and people know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1635">TS</a>]

00:27:16   folders are already so there's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1636">TS</a>]

00:27:17   there's nothing to learn it's familiar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1637">TS</a>]

00:27:19   right that's all people we're talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1639">TS</a>]

00:27:21   about that but I think that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1641">TS</a>]

00:27:22   distraction the maybe in the early days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1642">TS</a>]

00:27:25   that was important in terms of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1645">TS</a>]

00:27:26   making people feel comfortable so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1646">TS</a>]

00:27:28   they're not intimidated because they see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1648">TS</a>]

00:27:30   symbols on the screen that that look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1650">TS</a>]

00:27:31   like things that they are familiar with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1651">TS</a>]

00:27:33   but the real difference was that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1653">TS</a>]

00:27:36   stopped being a conversation in almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1656">TS</a>]

00:27:38   an adversarial conversation where the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1658">TS</a>]

00:27:40   computer says now you will type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1660">TS</a>]

00:27:41   something here and you were saying I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1661">TS</a>]

00:27:43   don't know what to type I'll try this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1663">TS</a>]

00:27:44   and it would say no you have typed the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1664">TS</a>]

00:27:45   wrong thing is something different no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1665">TS</a>]

00:27:47   that's the wrong thing to you type that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1667">TS</a>]

00:27:49   okay now I'll do what you told me to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1669">TS</a>]

00:27:50   but I'm not going to tell you really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1670">TS</a>]

00:27:52   what that was maybe I'll tell you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1672">TS</a>]

00:27:53   whether it was successful or not maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1673">TS</a>]

00:27:54   silence means it was successful you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1674">TS</a>]

00:27:56   that was intimidating versus this thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1676">TS</a>]

00:27:58   where what it gave you is not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1678">TS</a>]

00:28:01   conversation but a thing now I I got off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1681">TS</a>]

00:28:06   my first Mac when I was like 9 or 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1686">TS</a>]

00:28:07   years old 1984 and giving this computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1687">TS</a>]

00:28:11   to me and I had Mac's before I max [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1691">TS</a>]

00:28:13   before I had computers before that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1693">TS</a>]

00:28:14   booted to a prompt and I'd done basic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1694">TS</a>]

00:28:15   program stuff like that so I understood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1695">TS</a>]

00:28:17   the concept of booting to a problem do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1697">TS</a>]

00:28:18   this thing but you gave me this other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1698">TS</a>]

00:28:19   thing did not boot to a prompt booted to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1699">TS</a>]

00:28:21   this this desktop and the mouse control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1701">TS</a>]

00:28:24   the cursor it was pretty clear what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1704">TS</a>]

00:28:25   did with the mouse was just like a kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1705">TS</a>]

00:28:27   of extension of your hand you move it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1707">TS</a>]

00:28:28   around the screen it's got one button on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1708">TS</a>]

00:28:29   the mouse what do you do is when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1709">TS</a>]

00:28:31   little arrow was over something you push [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1711">TS</a>]

00:28:32   the button and you see what the heck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1712">TS</a>]

00:28:33   happens it was kind it was kind of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1713">TS</a>]

00:28:36   giving someone like an ant farm or like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1716">TS</a>]

00:28:38   a tavern puzzle or one of those 161 kids [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1718">TS</a>]

00:28:40   it was it was like a thing not not a not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1720">TS</a>]

00:28:43   a conversation not not a challenge not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1723">TS</a>]

00:28:45   not a game but a thing where you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1725">TS</a>]

00:28:49   poke the thing and you'd see how it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1729">TS</a>]

00:28:50   react like in a you know in it farm you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1730">TS</a>]

00:28:52   know what happens if I stick a stick in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1732">TS</a>]

00:28:54   there what happens if I cover over this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1734">TS</a>]

00:28:55   though anthill you know what happens if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1735">TS</a>]

00:28:57   and upset and shake or you know a tavern [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1737">TS</a>]

00:28:59   puzzle you know what happens when I pull [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1739">TS</a>]

00:29:00   this metal thing out whatever's gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1740">TS</a>]

00:29:01   you know so even as a nine-year-old who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1741">TS</a>]

00:29:04   had never seen a GUI before you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1744">TS</a>]

00:29:06   pretty quickly figure out all right well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1746">TS</a>]

00:29:07   this is only really one way to get input [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1747">TS</a>]

00:29:09   aside it wasn't touching the keyboard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1749">TS</a>]

00:29:10   because it was no there was no props [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1750">TS</a>]

00:29:12   there was no type you know the number of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1752">TS</a>]

00:29:13   things you can type on a keyboard is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1753">TS</a>]

00:29:14   nearly infinite but clicking it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1754">TS</a>]

00:29:16   well I can click on these little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1756">TS</a>]

00:29:17   pictures on the screen and eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1757">TS</a>]

00:29:19   you figure out if you click two times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1759">TS</a>]

00:29:20   faster than something different you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1760">TS</a>]

00:29:21   click and hold down and it drags you you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1761">TS</a>]

00:29:24   could figure out how it worked without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1764">TS</a>]

00:29:26   having to read a manual and without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1766">TS</a>]

00:29:28   having to type every possible string of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1768">TS</a>]

00:29:30   characters that you can type on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1770">TS</a>]

00:29:31   keyboard and that in my view was was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1771">TS</a>]

00:29:35   big difference between the Macintosh way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1775">TS</a>]

00:29:38   and the pre Macintosh way sort of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1778">TS</a>]

00:29:40   GUI in the non GUI way is not not the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1780">TS</a>]

00:29:42   desktop metaphor and all the little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1782">TS</a>]

00:29:43   folders and letting people know what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1783">TS</a>]

00:29:45   things were but the fact that you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1785">TS</a>]

00:29:47   figure it out by trial and error in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1787">TS</a>]

00:29:50   reasonable amount of time because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1790">TS</a>]

00:29:52   worked more like a physical yeah object [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1792">TS</a>]

00:29:54   then then like you know some sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1794">TS</a>]

00:29:57   obscure game system right well there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1797">TS</a>]

00:29:59   lot of value though to that to that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1799">TS</a>]

00:30:01   metaphor yeah I mean obviously the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1801">TS</a>]

00:30:04   metaphor was helping to be the thing to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1804">TS</a>]

00:30:05   look like a folder you'd have some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1805">TS</a>]

00:30:06   notion of what it might do and you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1806">TS</a>]

00:30:08   open it you could put stuff in it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1808">TS</a>]

00:30:10   know yeah I mean it was helping you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1810">TS</a>]

00:30:12   understand what was going on if they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1812">TS</a>]

00:30:14   made them circle squares and Diamonds it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1814">TS</a>]

00:30:15   would have been more difficult to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1815">TS</a>]

00:30:17   understand but but even if they had make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1817">TS</a>]

00:30:18   them Sir made them circle squares and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1818">TS</a>]

00:30:20   diamonds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1820">TS</a>]

00:30:20   kids in particular would figure it out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1820">TS</a>]

00:30:22   because if you think about video games [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1822">TS</a>]

00:30:23   of the time everything on screen was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1823">TS</a>]

00:30:24   like a circle or a square or daimond or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1824">TS</a>]

00:30:26   some other simple shape very clued [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1826">TS</a>]

00:30:28   crudely drawn with big hunk and pixels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1828">TS</a>]

00:30:30   but we didn't really care like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1830">TS</a>]

00:30:32   abstraction went away but you could fare [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1832">TS</a>]

00:30:33   like okay I in asteroids on this little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1833">TS</a>]

00:30:35   arrow shaped thing all right but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1835">TS</a>]

00:30:37   clear you know what other shape it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1837">TS</a>]

00:30:38   you could have bit its circle diamond [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1838">TS</a>]

00:30:39   whatever it's it's you that's you that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1839">TS</a>]

00:30:41   the thing it shoots the asteroid hits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1841">TS</a>]

00:30:43   you and you die and no matter what shape [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1843">TS</a>]

00:30:44   any of those objects are you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1844">TS</a>]

00:30:46   change them all into completely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1846">TS</a>]

00:30:47   different pictures the game still makes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1847">TS</a>]

00:30:48   sense once you use it now the finder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1848">TS</a>]

00:30:53   it's right in his name is that the point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1853">TS</a>]

00:30:55   of the finder was to find things and is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1855">TS</a>]

00:30:58   it's interesting to contrast the the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1858">TS</a>]

00:31:00   you find things the conversation wavers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1860">TS</a>]

00:31:02   is the Macintosh way so knowing what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1862">TS</a>]

00:31:07   things you were supposed to be finding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1867">TS</a>]

00:31:08   is one thing you know the fact that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1868">TS</a>]

00:31:10   look like little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1870">TS</a>]

00:31:10   pieces of paper with the corners folded [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1870">TS</a>]

00:31:12   or folders tell you if I'm looking for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1872">TS</a>]

00:31:15   something it's probably one of those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1875">TS</a>]

00:31:16   piece of paper things it's like my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1876">TS</a>]

00:31:17   electronic piece of paper or and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1877">TS</a>]

00:31:19   might be inside of the folder something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1879">TS</a>]

00:31:20   like that but and all the screens you to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1880">TS</a>]

00:31:22   know that but pretend you knew it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1882">TS</a>]

00:31:23   you refining the conversation way it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1883">TS</a>]

00:31:25   like like a text adventure what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1885">TS</a>]

00:31:26   would do is like you get at the prompt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1886">TS</a>]

00:31:29   that you type like look room that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1889">TS</a>]

00:31:30   equivalent of like LS order or one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1890">TS</a>]

00:31:33   those commands and that would this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1893">TS</a>]

00:31:34   theme of like info context adventures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1894">TS</a>]

00:31:36   and it would say exits or a B and C you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1896">TS</a>]

00:31:37   know and those are like you would list [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1897">TS</a>]

00:31:39   the files and fold it in there and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1899">TS</a>]

00:31:40   you'd say okay fine go to a or go north [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1900">TS</a>]

00:31:42   that's that's C D right change directory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1902">TS</a>]

00:31:45   then you type look room again and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1905">TS</a>]

00:31:46   would tell you what's in that room right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1906">TS</a>]

00:31:47   if anyone's played a text adventure this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1907">TS</a>]

00:31:49   is the process of wandering around text [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1909">TS</a>]

00:31:51   adventure you this text printed on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1911">TS</a>]

00:31:53   screen explain to you what's around but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1913">TS</a>]

00:31:55   you have to prompt you to say tell me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1915">TS</a>]

00:31:56   what's here where are my exits okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1916">TS</a>]

00:31:58   going to that exit look around here do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1918">TS</a>]

00:32:00   that to that take this thing and put it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1920">TS</a>]

00:32:02   on top of that examine this okay go here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1922">TS</a>]

00:32:04   go there all the while you're moving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1924">TS</a>]

00:32:06   around your current location is kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1926">TS</a>]

00:32:07   kept in your head and you can ask the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1927">TS</a>]

00:32:09   computer where am i right that's instead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1929">TS</a>]

00:32:12   of the state you can say where am i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1932">TS</a>]

00:32:13   current working directory will say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1933">TS</a>]

00:32:14   you're in the north lobby there exist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1934">TS</a>]

00:32:16   north south oh yeah I forgot about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1936">TS</a>]

00:32:18   and you spend a while and they're doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1938">TS</a>]

00:32:19   stuff or whatever and you come back and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1939">TS</a>]

00:32:20   go to the computer so where am I tell me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1940">TS</a>]

00:32:22   again right but if you're just working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1942">TS</a>]

00:32:23   you're maintaining that state in your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1943">TS</a>]

00:32:25   head like what is my current directory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1945">TS</a>]

00:32:26   how did I get here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1946">TS</a>]

00:32:28   what are the contents of this directory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1948">TS</a>]

00:32:29   you know stuff like that yeah the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1949">TS</a>]

00:32:32   Macintosh Way was more like I was trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1952">TS</a>]

00:32:35   to come up with a good analogy for this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1955">TS</a>]

00:32:37   is but it was not like a text adventure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1957">TS</a>]

00:32:38   it was more like like I said like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1958">TS</a>]

00:32:41   physical thing like say you were looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1961">TS</a>]

00:32:42   for something in a tool box like one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1962">TS</a>]

00:32:44   those big red tool boxes in a garage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1964">TS</a>]

00:32:45   with 15 million drawers although it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1965">TS</a>]

00:32:48   more like an infinitely deep tool box [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1968">TS</a>]

00:32:51   bragging centers within drawers dr. you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1971">TS</a>]

00:32:53   open the drawer and inside that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1973">TS</a>]

00:32:54   another drawer instead as another drawer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1974">TS</a>]

00:32:56   but that's that shouldn't distract from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1976">TS</a>]

00:32:58   the fact that that's the process of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1978">TS</a>]

00:32:59   doing stuff that your look room [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1979">TS</a>]

00:33:02   equivalent is you open the drawer and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1982">TS</a>]

00:33:03   there is no command to look at the room [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1983">TS</a>]

00:33:05   you just look with your eyes and you see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1985">TS</a>]

00:33:06   what are the contents of this you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1986">TS</a>]

00:33:08   when I open this folder it opens this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1988">TS</a>]

00:33:10   window what's in that window I don't ask [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1990">TS</a>]

00:33:12   the computer what's in the window the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1992">TS</a>]

00:33:13   computer shows me and if I can't see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1993">TS</a>]

00:33:15   something just like I can't see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1995">TS</a>]

00:33:15   something in a drawer I like pull the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1995">TS</a>]

00:33:17   drawer arm or move stuff out of the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1997">TS</a>]

00:33:19   you know you dig around you rummage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/1999">TS</a>]

00:33:20   around in there and yes you may find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2000">TS</a>]

00:33:23   another drawer inside there except [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2003">TS</a>]

00:33:24   style and open that drawer and look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2004">TS</a>]

00:33:26   what's in there right and so the state [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2006">TS</a>]

00:33:29   of where you are and what it was you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2009">TS</a>]

00:33:30   looking at was maintained visually by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2010">TS</a>]

00:33:32   the computer you didn't have to remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2012">TS</a>]

00:33:34   where you were you just look and see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2014">TS</a>]

00:33:36   like you know what what is it what is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2016">TS</a>]

00:33:38   where am i what is in this place that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2018">TS</a>]

00:33:39   am it you know then there was a title [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2019">TS</a>]

00:33:41   bar the window or whatever but you would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2021">TS</a>]

00:33:42   see this is what's in this window and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2022">TS</a>]

00:33:44   especially in the early days there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2024">TS</a>]

00:33:45   like three or four icons per window you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2025">TS</a>]

00:33:47   could see everything that was in either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2027">TS</a>]

00:33:48   one of them and if you wanted to know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2028">TS</a>]

00:33:50   how did I get here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2030">TS</a>]

00:33:51   well you could see like where the drawer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2031">TS</a>]

00:33:54   was sticking out of in other words so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2034">TS</a>]

00:33:56   you could see by where the drawer when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2036">TS</a>]

00:33:59   you double-click the folder would do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2039">TS</a>]

00:34:00   that little animation and it would show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2040">TS</a>]

00:34:01   you this is coming from there it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2041">TS</a>]

00:34:03   very crude animation because it was 1984 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2043">TS</a>]

00:34:05   but it would have a series of lines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2045">TS</a>]

00:34:06   saying you know that folds of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2046">TS</a>]

00:34:07   double-clicked is now opening this thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2047">TS</a>]

00:34:08   that's where it came from and it would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2048">TS</a>]

00:34:10   gray out the the place where it came [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2050">TS</a>]

00:34:11   from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2051">TS</a>]

00:34:11   and the new window would be in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2051">TS</a>]

00:34:13   location and that's where the stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2053">TS</a>]

00:34:15   would be and you scroll around to look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2055">TS</a>]

00:34:18   for stuff and that's the key part is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2058">TS</a>]

00:34:20   looking around for stuff was literally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2060">TS</a>]

00:34:22   looking around like when you rummage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2062">TS</a>]

00:34:23   through a like a junk drawer for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2063">TS</a>]

00:34:24   something you are you know and if the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2064">TS</a>]

00:34:27   drawer is messy it's going to be harder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2067">TS</a>]

00:34:28   to find stuff you know but but you you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2068">TS</a>]

00:34:30   can look around for stuff by you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2070">TS</a>]

00:34:31   scrolling is not much different than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2071">TS</a>]

00:34:32   pulling out the drawer more moving stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2072">TS</a>]

00:34:34   out of the way with your hands you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2074">TS</a>]

00:34:35   move stuff around and arrange things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2075">TS</a>]

00:34:36   however you want it if you're into lock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2076">TS</a>]

00:34:38   organization you can make a nice neat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2078">TS</a>]

00:34:40   junk drawer where you say okay well let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2080">TS</a>]

00:34:42   me I keep going in this drawer to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2082">TS</a>]

00:34:43   stuff let me just arrange stuff the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2083">TS</a>]

00:34:44   I want it to be so it'll to be you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2084">TS</a>]

00:34:46   it'll be easier to find next time maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2086">TS</a>]

00:34:49   I'll put them in alphabetical order [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2089">TS</a>]

00:34:50   maybe I'll put them in little groups [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2090">TS</a>]

00:34:51   maybe I'll just arrange them arbitrarily [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2091">TS</a>]

00:34:52   maybe I'll put my favorite ones on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2092">TS</a>]

00:34:54   upper left and you know whatever you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2094">TS</a>]

00:34:55   want to do but eventually what you do is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2095">TS</a>]

00:34:57   you have a place for everything and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2097">TS</a>]

00:34:58   everything in its place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2098">TS</a>]

00:35:00   visually and this is this is kind of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2100">TS</a>]

00:35:03   bargain that people are used to kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2103">TS</a>]

00:35:06   let me arrange things in places right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2106">TS</a>]

00:35:09   and people used to this in the real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2109">TS</a>]

00:35:11   world because this is what this is what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2111">TS</a>]

00:35:12   keeping your house is like or your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2112">TS</a>]

00:35:14   arranging your room or whatever it's up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2114">TS</a>]

00:35:16   to you to more or less you know keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2116">TS</a>]

00:35:18   your silverware a nice neat pile so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2118">TS</a>]

00:35:20   you know where the forks are instead of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2120">TS</a>]

00:35:21   putting all your so we're into a big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2121">TS</a>]

00:35:22   jumble if you want to put all your so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2122">TS</a>]

00:35:23   were in a big jumble fine and when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2123">TS</a>]

00:35:24   want to go in there looking for a fork [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2124">TS</a>]

00:35:25   you can you know sift through the stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2125">TS</a>]

00:35:27   and find the fork where but that's up to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2127">TS</a>]

00:35:29   you this is the bargain of life and this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2129">TS</a>]

00:35:31   is this was the bargain of the Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2131">TS</a>]

00:35:32   presented you with is that you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2132">TS</a>]

00:35:34   arrange things however you wanted and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2134">TS</a>]

00:35:36   you're a neat person you could be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2136">TS</a>]

00:35:36   needing you're a sloppy person you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2136">TS</a>]

00:35:38   be slob [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2138">TS</a>]

00:35:39   and what it did whether you need or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2139">TS</a>]

00:35:41   sloppy was it eventually let you build [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2141">TS</a>]

00:35:43   up a memory of where things are the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2143">TS</a>]

00:35:45   way kind of this is an example I use one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2145">TS</a>]

00:35:47   of the early articles I'll bring that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2147">TS</a>]

00:35:49   again just because I think it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2149">TS</a>]

00:35:50   still a good one the same way when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2150">TS</a>]

00:35:52   move into a new house which you'll be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2152">TS</a>]

00:35:54   doing shortly hopefully I hold you first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2154">TS</a>]

00:35:57   move in you don't really know where all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2157">TS</a>]

00:35:59   the light switches are right so every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2159">TS</a>]

00:36:01   time you come in home you're like is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2161">TS</a>]

00:36:02   this on the inside especially if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2162">TS</a>]

00:36:03   can't move to New England from someplace [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2163">TS</a>]

00:36:04   else the England puts light switches to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2164">TS</a>]

00:36:06   the bathrooms on the outside crazy stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2166">TS</a>]

00:36:07   like that from you know really old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2167">TS</a>]

00:36:09   houses just so you can like goof on on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2169">TS</a>]

00:36:11   your kids and turn the light off while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2171">TS</a>]

00:36:12   they're in there in the shower yeah I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2172">TS</a>]

00:36:14   don't know why that is some person is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2174">TS</a>]

00:36:15   contractor in New England will send us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2175">TS</a>]

00:36:17   an email and explain why the light [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2177">TS</a>]

00:36:19   switches can you do your best New [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2179">TS</a>]

00:36:21   England accent of the imitating the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2181">TS</a>]

00:36:23   contractor coming in and what he would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2183">TS</a>]

00:36:25   say I do not have a New England accent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2185">TS</a>]

00:36:26   nor can I imitate one NORC and most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2186">TS</a>]

00:36:28   people in Hollywood but I know one money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2188">TS</a>]

00:36:31   you can do Boston but yeah so but when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2191">TS</a>]

00:36:34   you've been there for a while eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2194">TS</a>]

00:36:36   you remember all the lights which is art [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2196">TS</a>]

00:36:37   it's not like you spent some time like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2197">TS</a>]

00:36:39   okay kids we're going to spend an hour [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2199">TS</a>]

00:36:41   tonight to memorize where all the light [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2201">TS</a>]

00:36:42   switches are you don't expend any effort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2202">TS</a>]

00:36:45   on remembering where the light switch is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2205">TS</a>]

00:36:46   are you just leave you lived there for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2206">TS</a>]

00:36:47   week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2207">TS</a>]

00:36:48   two weeks eventually you remember old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2208">TS</a>]

00:36:49   lights resort how the hell do you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2209">TS</a>]

00:36:51   that how is it that suddenly you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2211">TS</a>]

00:36:52   where all the light switches are and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2212">TS</a>]

00:36:53   expended literally zero conscious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2213">TS</a>]

00:36:55   thought to remember where the light rays [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2215">TS</a>]

00:36:58   are well you remember where they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2218">TS</a>]

00:36:59   because they don't move and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2219">TS</a>]

00:37:02   yeah you didn't choose you didn't even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2222">TS</a>]

00:37:03   choose to put them there but you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2223">TS</a>]

00:37:05   some other person but them in crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2225">TS</a>]

00:37:07   positions but eventually you remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2227">TS</a>]

00:37:08   where they are just you know we call it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2228">TS</a>]

00:37:10   muscle memory or whatever we call it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2230">TS</a>]

00:37:11   obviously your muscles don't actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2231">TS</a>]

00:37:12   have memory these are all phrases that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2232">TS</a>]

00:37:14   we've come up with to describe the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2234">TS</a>]

00:37:17   sensation of us not haven't you not use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2237">TS</a>]

00:37:19   our people brains to remember where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2239">TS</a>]

00:37:21   things are just happens automatically so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2241">TS</a>]

00:37:22   that's like that's obviously not me I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2242">TS</a>]

00:37:23   not thinking about it it's muscle memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2243">TS</a>]

00:37:26   my muscles know so when I walk into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2246">TS</a>]

00:37:27   room even it's like in the middle the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2247">TS</a>]

00:37:28   night I'm getting up to take a leak my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2248">TS</a>]

00:37:30   hand just automatically flicks the light [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2250">TS</a>]

00:37:31   switch on I didn't think about it just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2251">TS</a>]

00:37:33   happened right so this obviously is easy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2253">TS</a>]

00:37:36   for something stationary like light [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2256">TS</a>]

00:37:37   switch just don't move it you can have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2257">TS</a>]

00:37:38   the same experience with things that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2258">TS</a>]

00:37:40   choose to put somewhere like eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2260">TS</a>]

00:37:42   when you move into new house you decide [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2262">TS</a>]

00:37:43   where you're going to put the scissors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2263">TS</a>]

00:37:44   so that every time you want the scissors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2264">TS</a>]

00:37:45   you go and get this eventually you stop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2265">TS</a>]

00:37:47   thinking about where the scissors are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2267">TS</a>]

00:37:49   you just go I need to go get the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2269">TS</a>]

00:37:51   scissors it's like a macro [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2271">TS</a>]

00:37:52   your body gets up walks through the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2272">TS</a>]

00:37:53   house without hitting any of the walls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2273">TS</a>]

00:37:54   correctly turns on all the lights which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2274">TS</a>]

00:37:56   is on its way there opens the drawer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2276">TS</a>]

00:37:57   where you know the scissors are takes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2277">TS</a>]

00:37:59   the scissors out of the drawer maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2279">TS</a>]

00:38:00   you're not even looking walks back with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2280">TS</a>]

00:38:02   the room of the scissors and you do your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2282">TS</a>]

00:38:03   thing right because you chose that this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2283">TS</a>]

00:38:06   is going to be in this drawer and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2286">TS</a>]

00:38:07   have been living in this house for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2287">TS</a>]

00:38:08   while and you've you know arranged the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2288">TS</a>]

00:38:10   furniture in a certain way and the rooms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2290">TS</a>]

00:38:11   are connected in a certain way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2291">TS</a>]

00:38:12   electrodes are a certain way all because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2292">TS</a>]

00:38:14   it behaves like the physical world and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2294">TS</a>]

00:38:15   it's not not surprising that people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2295">TS</a>]

00:38:17   good at doing this because people have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2297">TS</a>]

00:38:18   been living in the physical world since [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2298">TS</a>]

00:38:20   there have been people you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2300">TS</a>]

00:38:21   navigate 3d space look at things with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2301">TS</a>]

00:38:24   your eyes and do repetitive tasks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2304">TS</a>]

00:38:26   without thinking about them because if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2306">TS</a>]

00:38:28   we had to think like you know like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2308">TS</a>]

00:38:29   you're programming a robot pick up your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2309">TS</a>]

00:38:31   foot move it forward slightly lean your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2311">TS</a>]

00:38:33   body forward now your foot your body is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2313">TS</a>]

00:38:35   starting to tilt catch it with your foot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2315">TS</a>]

00:38:36   catch though I mean we don't think like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2316">TS</a>]

00:38:39   that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2319">TS</a>]

00:38:39   things become sort of automatic for us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2319">TS</a>]

00:38:41   to do because we this is just how we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2321">TS</a>]

00:38:43   evolved if we had to think consciously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2323">TS</a>]

00:38:44   about every little thing that we did we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2324">TS</a>]

00:38:46   would not be a successful species so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2326">TS</a>]

00:38:49   human mind body and brain are completely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2329">TS</a>]

00:38:51   tuned to do things based on visual input [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2331">TS</a>]

00:38:54   with our hands physically without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2334">TS</a>]

00:38:57   thinking about it and this is the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2337">TS</a>]

00:38:59   most efficient possible way that you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2339">TS</a>]

00:39:02   do anything really now the reason this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2342">TS</a>]

00:39:06   ties back to the Mac is that this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2346">TS</a>]

00:39:08   what the Mac was like especially to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2348">TS</a>]

00:39:10   young childhood note to it know a thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2350">TS</a>]

00:39:13   - it wasn't a change for anything it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2353">TS</a>]

00:39:14   like the first interface that I've used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2354">TS</a>]

00:39:16   right it was like a little like a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2356">TS</a>]

00:39:18   toy box like a little place where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2358">TS</a>]

00:39:20   could rearrange things now they weren't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2360">TS</a>]

00:39:22   real things they were flat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2362">TS</a>]

00:39:23   two-dimensional things but they behaved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2363">TS</a>]

00:39:25   like real things they'd be it was like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2365">TS</a>]

00:39:26   little diorama okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2366">TS</a>]

00:39:28   and you just move things around arrange [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2368">TS</a>]

00:39:30   things like looks like a little tiny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2370">TS</a>]

00:39:32   world in there and and the great thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2372">TS</a>]

00:39:33   about it was that you know you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2373">TS</a>]

00:39:35   draw lines and erase them and you didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2375">TS</a>]

00:39:36   you know it wasn't like paper they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2376">TS</a>]

00:39:37   raised perfectly you could arrange [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2377">TS</a>]

00:39:39   things perfectly and align them on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2379">TS</a>]

00:39:40   pixel grid which is difficult to do in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2380">TS</a>]

00:39:42   real life and everything but but it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2382">TS</a>]

00:39:43   this little world that you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2383">TS</a>]

00:39:44   manipulate and the experience of the Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2384">TS</a>]

00:39:46   was that you turned it on and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2386">TS</a>]

00:39:48   what you saw like it wasn't like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2388">TS</a>]

00:39:49   program that you ran right it wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2389">TS</a>]

00:39:52   like you were running the finder program [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2392">TS</a>]

00:39:54   then you know when you turn the computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2394">TS</a>]

00:39:55   on on a boot did this is what you saw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2395">TS</a>]

00:39:57   applications ran on the computer when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2397">TS</a>]

00:39:59   you launched an application then you saw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2399">TS</a>]

00:40:00   something else and it was like oh okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2400">TS</a>]

00:40:02   this is this application is interfaced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2402">TS</a>]

00:40:03   and this has palettes or it's a game or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2403">TS</a>]

00:40:05   you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2405">TS</a>]

00:40:05   it's whatever but when you quit the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2405">TS</a>]

00:40:07   application nothing else is running you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2407">TS</a>]

00:40:09   just saw the computer all right the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2409">TS</a>]

00:40:11   finder is what you saw when all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2411">TS</a>]

00:40:12   applications were closed it was no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2412">TS</a>]

00:40:14   closing of the finder right to close the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2414">TS</a>]

00:40:16   finder was to turn off the computer and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2416">TS</a>]

00:40:18   the the upshot of this is what I wrote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2418">TS</a>]

00:40:20   way back in 2003 I still believe to this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2420">TS</a>]

00:40:23   day is that back then the finder was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2423">TS</a>]

00:40:25   computer it's not like it was a program [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2425">TS</a>]

00:40:28   running on the computer the finder was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2428">TS</a>]

00:40:30   the computer when it was it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2430">TS</a>]

00:40:32   magical little world called the finder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2432">TS</a>]

00:40:33   and that was the entire computer and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2433">TS</a>]

00:40:35   then you could run things on top of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2435">TS</a>]

00:40:36   those were just like bonuses and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2436">TS</a>]

00:40:38   reason the Mac was more friendly and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2438">TS</a>]

00:40:39   people liked it was not in my opinion so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2439">TS</a>]

00:40:41   much is because of desktop metaphor but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2441">TS</a>]

00:40:43   because that when everything was quit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2443">TS</a>]

00:40:45   and closed you were just left with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2445">TS</a>]

00:40:47   computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2447">TS</a>]

00:40:47   you were left this little diorama thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2447">TS</a>]

00:40:49   that people could understand and manage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2449">TS</a>]

00:40:52   they understood how it works because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2452">TS</a>]

00:40:54   worked like the real world and if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2454">TS</a>]

00:40:56   used it for any reasonable period of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2456">TS</a>]

00:40:57   time it was like the light switches in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2457">TS</a>]

00:40:59   your house you arrange things in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2459">TS</a>]

00:41:00   certain way you knew where things were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2460">TS</a>]

00:41:02   or you chose not to arrange them and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2462">TS</a>]

00:41:03   just live with the messy junk drawer but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2463">TS</a>]

00:41:05   at least you knew where the junk drawer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2465">TS</a>]

00:41:06   was right and it was it was a bargain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2466">TS</a>]

00:41:09   that people were used to and it felt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2469">TS</a>]

00:41:12   friendly it felt less effort than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2472">TS</a>]

00:41:14   remembering which you have to make a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2474">TS</a>]

00:41:15   conscious effort to remember all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2475">TS</a>]

00:41:16   commands very few people you know make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2476">TS</a>]

00:41:17   programmers or maybe your UNIX geeks and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2477">TS</a>]

00:41:19   stuff have the capacity to remember all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2479">TS</a>]

00:41:21   these commands because you do have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2481">TS</a>]

00:41:23   read man pages in the beginning and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2483">TS</a>]

00:41:24   remember what that flag tell s is and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2484">TS</a>]

00:41:26   remember what are the arguments go on on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2486">TS</a>]

00:41:28   the Ln command and stuff like that like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2488">TS</a>]

00:41:29   even no matter how good you are at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2489">TS</a>]

00:41:31   memorizing computers you have to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2491">TS</a>]

00:41:33   some effort and some people can never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2493">TS</a>]

00:41:34   cross that threshold you know some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2494">TS</a>]

00:41:36   people you tried to teach simple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2496">TS</a>]

00:41:37   command-line stuff they never never get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2497">TS</a>]

00:41:39   over the hump they you know it is an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2499">TS</a>]

00:41:41   effort but if you put someone in front [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2501">TS</a>]

00:41:43   of a 1984 Macintosh and you make them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2503">TS</a>]

00:41:45   use it for a week to do simple tasks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2505">TS</a>]

00:41:46   they will eventually figure out the very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2506">TS</a>]

00:41:49   least to find a part of it with like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2509">TS</a>]

00:41:51   okay well where's that file okay it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2511">TS</a>]

00:41:52   over here over here there it is or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2512">TS</a>]

00:41:53   although you know put stuff on a desktop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2513">TS</a>]

00:41:55   or whatever um and so that was that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2515">TS</a>]

00:42:00   the the the thing that the Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2520">TS</a>]

00:42:02   represented to me that was what made it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2522">TS</a>]

00:42:04   what they called user friendly right it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2524">TS</a>]

00:42:07   was because it wasn't a cop an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2527">TS</a>]

00:42:08   adversarial conversation where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2528">TS</a>]

00:42:10   weren't getting hints by the computer it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2530">TS</a>]

00:42:11   was because it was more like a thing now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2531">TS</a>]

00:42:15   what else do I have here in my last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2535">TS</a>]

00:42:17   remaining ten minutes which time am I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2537">TS</a>]

00:42:18   supposed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2538">TS</a>]

00:42:19   be interrupting you on well so all right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2539">TS</a>]

00:42:23   we'll get through it I think all right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2543">TS</a>]

00:42:25   let me let me do the second sponsor we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2545">TS</a>]

00:42:27   also want to say thanks to sound studio [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2547">TS</a>]

00:42:28   for its an easy to you I love this app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2548">TS</a>]

00:42:30   review system today's use Mac app for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2550">TS</a>]

00:42:33   recording and editing digital audio on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2553">TS</a>]

00:42:35   your computer you can digitize tapes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2555">TS</a>]

00:42:37   vinyl records you can record live [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2557">TS</a>]

00:42:38   performances podcasts whatever you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2558">TS</a>]

00:42:41   to do and you can edit with it - you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2561">TS</a>]

00:42:43   do mixes crossfades tweak the levels in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2563">TS</a>]

00:42:45   the EQ you can export in all of your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2565">TS</a>]

00:42:47   favorite formats a if' wav mp3 AAC even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2567">TS</a>]

00:42:51   john Syracuse's favorite the OGG Vorbis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2571">TS</a>]

00:42:55   you can try sound studio for for free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2575">TS</a>]

00:42:57   for 15 days fully functional by visiting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2577">TS</a>]

00:43:01   felt-tip comm /ss for sound studio or if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2581">TS</a>]

00:43:05   you just want to go check it out in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2585">TS</a>]

00:43:07   App Store you could do it they sell it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2587">TS</a>]

00:43:08   there just search for sound studio or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2588">TS</a>]

00:43:11   sound studio for and you'll find it love [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2591">TS</a>]

00:43:13   this app use this app constantly any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2593">TS</a>]

00:43:16   time I need to just do string forward [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2596">TS</a>]

00:43:17   recordings I don't want to have to mess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2597">TS</a>]

00:43:19   with logic and all that stuff that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2599">TS</a>]

00:43:21   overkill for most people really this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2601">TS</a>]

00:43:23   my go-to app highly recommended please [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2603">TS</a>]

00:43:26   go check them out use that right tone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2606">TS</a>]

00:43:29   I do have sound studio I think I got in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2609">TS</a>]

00:43:31   one of those bundles way back when yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2611">TS</a>]

00:43:33   probably don't have the latest version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2613">TS</a>]

00:43:34   well the easy it was that was my sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2614">TS</a>]

00:43:36   edit 16 replacement that's right it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2616">TS</a>]

00:43:38   small app shop they've continued to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2618">TS</a>]

00:43:40   update it it's very much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2620">TS</a>]

00:43:41   it's a 64-bit app now it's come a long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2621">TS</a>]

00:43:44   way a lot of new stuff in version 4 that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2624">TS</a>]

00:43:46   I'm happy with for years I was I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2626">TS</a>]

00:43:49   looking for a replacement for sound data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2629">TS</a>]

00:43:50   16 which was my old go to you just want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2630">TS</a>]

00:43:53   that at some audio app and I couldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2633">TS</a>]

00:43:54   find one sound studio was the one I came [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2634">TS</a>]

00:43:56   up with years ago I haven't updated it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2636">TS</a>]

00:43:58   since probably because it just still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2638">TS</a>]

00:44:00   works but I'll take a look at the newer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2640">TS</a>]

00:44:01   version so where was that now for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2641">TS</a>]

00:44:08   everything that I just described to work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2648">TS</a>]

00:44:10   for that to happen for that whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2650">TS</a>]

00:44:13   magical moment of just like not having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2653">TS</a>]

00:44:15   to think about it and getting used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2655">TS</a>]

00:44:16   where things are and everything for that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2656">TS</a>]

00:44:18   to work things have to be recognizable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2658">TS</a>]

00:44:20   and and recognizable without reading no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2660">TS</a>]

00:44:23   reading reading is like the you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2663">TS</a>]

00:44:24   Krugman is that his book don't make me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2664">TS</a>]

00:44:26   think I'm thinking of the Economist was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2666">TS</a>]

00:44:28   like Steve Krug is don't make me think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2668">TS</a>]

00:44:31   there you go right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2671">TS</a>]

00:44:33   when I hear that I think don't make me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2673">TS</a>]

00:44:35   read so things have to be recognizable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2675">TS</a>]

00:44:37   that doesn't mean making you read them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2677">TS</a>]

00:44:38   so that's a type dir or LS and get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2678">TS</a>]

00:44:40   Content and read stuff or even has a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2680">TS</a>]

00:44:42   type CWD and read that thing no reading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2682">TS</a>]

00:44:44   don't make me read ah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2684">TS</a>]

00:44:45   the best way we recognize things with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2685">TS</a>]

00:44:47   our senses because again we don't we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2687">TS</a>]

00:44:50   didn't involve evolved inside a computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2690">TS</a>]

00:44:51   we evolved in the world that's how we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2691">TS</a>]

00:44:53   recognize everything with our senses all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2693">TS</a>]

00:44:55   right so I you know the best way to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2695">TS</a>]

00:44:57   recognize things given computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2697">TS</a>]

00:44:58   technology is visually it's it could be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2698">TS</a>]

00:45:01   argued that sound might be adding sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2701">TS</a>]

00:45:04   to the mix would help but right now we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2704">TS</a>]

00:45:05   don't do that I would say like smells [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2705">TS</a>]

00:45:06   another one okay we recognize things in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2706">TS</a>]

00:45:08   the real world with sound what's with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2708">TS</a>]

00:45:10   all our senses with taste I guess but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2710">TS</a>]

00:45:12   we're not quite ready to go for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2712">TS</a>]

00:45:13   smellivision [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2713">TS</a>]

00:45:14   or tasting our computer screens sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2714">TS</a>]

00:45:17   maybe but no one has figured out a way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2717">TS</a>]

00:45:18   to do that's not annoying because sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2718">TS</a>]

00:45:20   can be kind of annoying so we were on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2720">TS</a>]

00:45:21   the screen recognize things visually and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2721">TS</a>]

00:45:23   that's what the original finder used and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2723">TS</a>]

00:45:25   the way that worked is that when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2725">TS</a>]

00:45:27   opened a folder there would be a single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2727">TS</a>]

00:45:30   window that was tied to that folder and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2730">TS</a>]

00:45:31   that window would have a certain size [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2731">TS</a>]

00:45:33   shaping position that you could adjust [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2733">TS</a>]

00:45:34   because it's like a little thing right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2734">TS</a>]

00:45:36   and because you chose how big to make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2736">TS</a>]

00:45:39   and where to put it and the arrangement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2739">TS</a>]

00:45:42   of things inside it you would come to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2742">TS</a>]

00:45:43   recognize that arrange that visual thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2743">TS</a>]

00:45:46   with like you'd recognize it visually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2746">TS</a>]

00:45:48   the same way you recognize you know a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2748">TS</a>]

00:45:49   room in your house or a street or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2749">TS</a>]

00:45:50   anything else you recognize visually oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2750">TS</a>]

00:45:52   that's that window because I recognize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2752">TS</a>]

00:45:54   it by looking at all right and any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2754">TS</a>]

00:45:57   changes to that state rearranging the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2757">TS</a>]

00:45:58   contents scrolling a little bit you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2758">TS</a>]

00:46:01   changing the size moving it that had to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2761">TS</a>]

00:46:04   be maintained by the computer because if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2764">TS</a>]

00:46:06   it wasn't then when you saw something on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2766">TS</a>]

00:46:09   the screen that visual information would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2769">TS</a>]

00:46:12   not be a reliable means of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2772">TS</a>]

00:46:13   identification and doesn't take much of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2773">TS</a>]

00:46:15   a deviation to make you start discarding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2775">TS</a>]

00:46:18   that information but if you if you did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2778">TS</a>]

00:46:20   some such weak look let me move that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2780">TS</a>]

00:46:21   over there and then the next time you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2781">TS</a>]

00:46:22   opened it it wasn't over there you start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2782">TS</a>]

00:46:25   to you know consciously or not you start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2785">TS</a>]

00:46:26   to say well I can't rely on these things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2786">TS</a>]

00:46:29   that my eyes are seeing to help me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2789">TS</a>]

00:46:30   identify things I have to I have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2790">TS</a>]

00:46:32   start reading basically like oh that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2792">TS</a>]

00:46:33   looks like that window use last time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2793">TS</a>]

00:46:35   well no but you know oh that looks like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2795">TS</a>]

00:46:37   a the same arrangement of the icons well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2797">TS</a>]

00:46:38   is it well I have it to read you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2798">TS</a>]

00:46:39   because if any of these changes that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2799">TS</a>]

00:46:41   made if you try to arrange your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2801">TS</a>]

00:46:43   workspace if you tried to like say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2803">TS</a>]

00:46:44   you're a painter you put the you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2804">TS</a>]

00:46:46   the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2806">TS</a>]

00:46:46   by out the the big cup of water over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2806">TS</a>]

00:46:49   there and your palette over here and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2809">TS</a>]

00:46:50   put the red in the corner and the black [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2810">TS</a>]

00:46:51   over there and the white over there and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2811">TS</a>]

00:46:53   you put the little towel over this bar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2813">TS</a>]

00:46:54   so you can get to it and you have your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2814">TS</a>]

00:46:56   seat here and your sandwiches behind you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2816">TS</a>]

00:46:57   up you make that nice arrangement then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2817">TS</a>]

00:46:59   you spend the time doing that and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2819">TS</a>]

00:47:01   something moves and you go for the water [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2821">TS</a>]

00:47:02   thing and it's not where you left it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2822">TS</a>]

00:47:04   can be like okay I guess we can't get to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2824">TS</a>]

00:47:06   that water thing by just looking for it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2826">TS</a>]

00:47:07   I have to you know look it up by name or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2827">TS</a>]

00:47:09   Salvi's as the analogy falls down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2829">TS</a>]

00:47:10   because in pewter world is different but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2830">TS</a>]

00:47:11   the point is as soon as you stop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2831">TS</a>]

00:47:13   behaving like the real world does in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2833">TS</a>]

00:47:16   terms of state retention the user will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2836">TS</a>]

00:47:18   just start discarding that as valuable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2838">TS</a>]

00:47:20   information and they have to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2840">TS</a>]

00:47:21   something else and look that something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2841">TS</a>]

00:47:22   else is is usually reading that where am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2842">TS</a>]

00:47:24   i I have to read something now and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2844">TS</a>]

00:47:26   is way way less efficient you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2846">TS</a>]

00:47:28   you'll never get to that sort of I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2848">TS</a>]

00:47:29   world lights which is our thing if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2849">TS</a>]

00:47:31   have to start reading stuff now the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2851">TS</a>]

00:47:35   finder that I described in the beginning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2855">TS</a>]

00:47:36   is the way the fine to work for 16 years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2856">TS</a>]

00:47:39   1984 through 2001 or so yeah the old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2859">TS</a>]

00:47:41   school fund your favorite finder yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2861">TS</a>]

00:47:44   and and that's what I call the spatial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2864">TS</a>]

00:47:45   finder spatial as you know as in you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2865">TS</a>]

00:47:47   know objects in space type of thing I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2867">TS</a>]

00:47:49   don't think I cone that term I probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2869">TS</a>]

00:47:52   read it somewhere way back when and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2872">TS</a>]

00:47:54   you've just been repeating it since but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2874">TS</a>]

00:47:56   when I say spatial finder that's what I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2876">TS</a>]

00:47:58   mean and when other people say it I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2878">TS</a>]

00:48:01   not sure what it is they mean I hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2881">TS</a>]

00:48:02   they mean the same thing as I do but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2882">TS</a>]

00:48:04   they're talking about you're talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2884">TS</a>]

00:48:05   about the same thing if you've seen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2885">TS</a>]

00:48:07   Jurassic Park that's not the spatial fun [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2887">TS</a>]

00:48:10   that is spatial okay what is that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2890">TS</a>]

00:48:13   is the thing on SGI it's actually a real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2893">TS</a>]

00:48:14   program that is actually fly through the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2894">TS</a>]

00:48:17   file system no you know what those were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2897">TS</a>]

00:48:20   just like tiles that would fly a tree [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2900">TS</a>]

00:48:21   yeah yeah that's not the spatial okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2901">TS</a>]

00:48:23   what is it then all right so so it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2903">TS</a>]

00:48:26   what I just described it's it's that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2906">TS</a>]

00:48:27   finder that works that way that is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2907">TS</a>]

00:48:29   windows or tied to a single folder that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2909">TS</a>]

00:48:31   any sort of state change you make to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2911">TS</a>]

00:48:33   arrangement of icons or the size and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2913">TS</a>]

00:48:35   position of the windows is retained [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2915">TS</a>]

00:48:37   that's it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2917">TS</a>]

00:48:38   that's it simple the thing about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2918">TS</a>]

00:48:41   spatial finder is it's not it's not like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2921">TS</a>]

00:48:43   fetishizing the past or some weird set [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2923">TS</a>]

00:48:46   of rules that you have to comply to like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2926">TS</a>]

00:48:47   religion like only it's just an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2927">TS</a>]

00:48:49   arbitrary set of rules and it's it's our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2929">TS</a>]

00:48:50   Bible and we don't question why it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2930">TS</a>]

00:48:52   there and you have to comply to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2932">TS</a>]

00:48:53   because we're selling you it's good now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2933">TS</a>]

00:48:54   the spatial finder is a means to an end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2934">TS</a>]

00:48:56   the whole point of the spatial finder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2936">TS</a>]

00:48:58   whether they intended it or not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2938">TS</a>]

00:49:00   the reason it worked is because the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2940">TS</a>]

00:49:02   that it behaved allowed the visual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2942">TS</a>]

00:49:04   spatial information to be significant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2944">TS</a>]

00:49:07   and it engaged that incredibly powerful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2947">TS</a>]

00:49:09   part of your brain that would recognize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2949">TS</a>]

00:49:11   that stuff and if it work differently if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2951">TS</a>]

00:49:14   you broke one of these rules of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2954">TS</a>]

00:49:15   spatial finder then that you'd stop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2955">TS</a>]

00:49:18   leveraging that part of the brain so if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2958">TS</a>]

00:49:19   it didn't retain visual state if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2959">TS</a>]

00:49:21   could have multiple windows open that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2961">TS</a>]

00:49:24   all represented the same folder when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2964">TS</a>]

00:49:25   made a state change to it you'd be like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2965">TS</a>]

00:49:26   well so am I am i changing the size of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2966">TS</a>]

00:49:28   this folder but because I see it over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2968">TS</a>]

00:49:31   there and it's a different thing so next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2971">TS</a>]

00:49:32   time I open it where is it good you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2972">TS</a>]

00:49:34   you don't think about this consciously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2974">TS</a>]

00:49:35   but basically what it boils down to is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2975">TS</a>]

00:49:37   that you don't spend the time to arrange [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2977">TS</a>]

00:49:40   stuff because you don't have any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2980">TS</a>]

00:49:41   confidence you don't even know what it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2981">TS</a>]

00:49:42   is you're arranging you know how many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2982">TS</a>]

00:49:44   confidence it's gonna be the same way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2984">TS</a>]

00:49:45   the next time you use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2985">TS</a>]

00:49:46   so in Mac in Mac OS 10 they introduced a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2986">TS</a>]

00:49:50   new model to the finder which is not it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2990">TS</a>]

00:49:53   was not new in 2001 mag was thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2993">TS</a>]

00:49:56   about but it was new to the Mac and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2996">TS</a>]

00:49:57   that's browsing and we're all familiar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2997">TS</a>]

00:49:58   with browsing from web browser it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/2998">TS</a>]

00:50:00   basically the window is kind of like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3000">TS</a>]

00:50:02   device through which you can view many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3002">TS</a>]

00:50:04   things like my magic magic device a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3004">TS</a>]

00:50:06   magic portal and the browser window is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3006">TS</a>]

00:50:09   wherever it is but the contents of that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3009">TS</a>]

00:50:11   window can be anything right and as you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3011">TS</a>]

00:50:13   change the contents of the window the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3013">TS</a>]

00:50:15   window itself doesn't change so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3015">TS</a>]

00:50:16   don't you know a particular website [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3016">TS</a>]

00:50:18   isn't in a particular position on your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3018">TS</a>]

00:50:20   screen the browser is like a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3020">TS</a>]

00:50:21   device and you could view that same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3021">TS</a>]

00:50:23   website in seven browser devices all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3023">TS</a>]

00:50:25   same time and that's the direction they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3025">TS</a>]

00:50:30   wanted to go with the finder in Mac OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3030">TS</a>]

00:50:32   there's also another model on top of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3032">TS</a>]

00:50:34   that which is of course search which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3034">TS</a>]

00:50:35   already existed but it's come become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3035">TS</a>]

00:50:37   more important where you type stuff in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3037">TS</a>]

00:50:39   and it just gives you a list of matches [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3039">TS</a>]

00:50:40   independent of where they are in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3040">TS</a>]

00:50:42   file hierarchy right now all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3042">TS</a>]

00:50:44   models I describe they're useful in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3044">TS</a>]

00:50:46   various contexts my Mangum late with Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3046">TS</a>]

00:50:49   OS 10 was that they ditched the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3049">TS</a>]

00:50:51   one I ditched that spatial model they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3051">TS</a>]

00:50:53   introduced browsing which is good and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3053">TS</a>]

00:50:54   has many purposes they made search a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3054">TS</a>]

00:50:57   better with spotlight but they decided [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3057">TS</a>]

00:50:59   that that first one wasn't important and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3059">TS</a>]

00:51:00   they decided that basically through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3060">TS</a>]

00:51:02   neglect because they say well can't you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3062">TS</a>]

00:51:04   use the Mac OS and finder like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3064">TS</a>]

00:51:05   can't you just make all your windows not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3065">TS</a>]

00:51:06   have side bars and toolbars you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3066">TS</a>]

00:51:08   this you can try to arrange things as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3068">TS</a>]

00:51:10   much as you want but the finder will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3070">TS</a>]

00:51:11   thwart you because it will spawn windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3071">TS</a>]

00:51:13   that are browsers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3073">TS</a>]

00:51:14   or you'll browse to a location in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3074">TS</a>]

00:51:16   browser window and change the size of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3076">TS</a>]

00:51:17   the window and not realize you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3077">TS</a>]

00:51:18   changing the size of the window window [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3078">TS</a>]

00:51:19   that you see in the other mode or maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3079">TS</a>]

00:51:21   you think you're changing it but you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3081">TS</a>]

00:51:22   not or when you change the icon v1 and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3082">TS</a>]

00:51:24   in the browser are you changing the icon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3084">TS</a>]

00:51:25   view next time you open that window from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3085">TS</a>]

00:51:27   the dock maybe you are maybe you are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3087">TS</a>]

00:51:29   like I said it doesn't take much to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3089">TS</a>]

00:51:31   throw you off to make this information [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3091">TS</a>]

00:51:32   not reliable and it's a shame that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3092">TS</a>]

00:51:35   ditch that model because it is the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3095">TS</a>]

00:51:37   efficient way that people recognize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3097">TS</a>]

00:51:38   things I had a hard time convincing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3098">TS</a>]

00:51:41   people of this back in the 2001 days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3101">TS</a>]

00:51:43   because they were saying well you know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3103">TS</a>]

00:51:45   use the web browsers regret I use them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3105">TS</a>]

00:51:46   all the time and I like tabs and cool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3106">TS</a>]

00:51:49   stuff like that and I use Windows which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3109">TS</a>]

00:51:50   doesn't exactly behave this way and I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3110">TS</a>]

00:51:52   fine with it in fact I like Windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3112">TS</a>]

00:51:53   Explorer and I like browsing you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3113">TS</a>]

00:51:55   browsing is all well and good but it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3115">TS</a>]

00:51:58   difficult to convince people especially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3118">TS</a>]

00:51:59   people who hadn't used the Mac for all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3119">TS</a>]

00:52:00   that time that the the spatial way of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3120">TS</a>]

00:52:03   doing things is good abstractly they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3123">TS</a>]

00:52:05   just don't get it but today I can use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3125">TS</a>]

00:52:07   iOS as an example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3127">TS</a>]

00:52:08   springboard which is the thing you see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3128">TS</a>]

00:52:10   when you turn on an iPhone with a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3130">TS</a>]

00:52:11   grid of icons right that is a spatial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3131">TS</a>]

00:52:13   interface you pick where you want those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3133">TS</a>]

00:52:15   little icons to go by dragging them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3135">TS</a>]

00:52:17   around or whatever and they don't move [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3137">TS</a>]

00:52:18   after you put them there and when new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3138">TS</a>]

00:52:20   ones appear they get tacked on to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3140">TS</a>]

00:52:21   end or whatever but like stuff stays [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3141">TS</a>]

00:52:24   where you put it and you have different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3144">TS</a>]

00:52:25   screens in them and it's like left and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3145">TS</a>]

00:52:26   right you know it's not it's a limited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3146">TS</a>]

00:52:27   spatial world does not really you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3147">TS</a>]

00:52:29   they added folders but you don't really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3149">TS</a>]

00:52:30   go into them but even within the folders [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3150">TS</a>]

00:52:31   it's like a little arrangement you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3151">TS</a>]

00:52:32   and it's a series of screens it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3152">TS</a>]

00:52:35   spatial metaphor of like screen one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3155">TS</a>]

00:52:36   screen - it's a big linear sideways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3156">TS</a>]

00:52:39   one-dimensional list of screens where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3159">TS</a>]

00:52:40   you can swipe back and forth through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3160">TS</a>]

00:52:41   them there's no up and down folders is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3161">TS</a>]

00:52:44   like another little portal into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3164">TS</a>]

00:52:45   world you can look at one level deep and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3165">TS</a>]

00:52:47   it's another grid of icons um but that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3167">TS</a>]

00:52:51   things people are used to and if you put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3171">TS</a>]

00:52:53   like you know Safari in the upper left [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3173">TS</a>]

00:52:54   hand corner it didn't stay there you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3174">TS</a>]

00:52:56   would be pissed you can feel it when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3176">TS</a>]

00:52:58   your thumb go that's why your thumb can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3178">TS</a>]

00:52:59   find these things when you pull out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3179">TS</a>]

00:53:00   you're following your iPod your thumb [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3180">TS</a>]

00:53:02   finds the thing you want because that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3182">TS</a>]

00:53:03   where you put it you decide that's where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3183">TS</a>]

00:53:04   it's gonna go and you get that muscle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3184">TS</a>]

00:53:05   memory thing now now in the 4 minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3185">TS</a>]

00:53:09   remaining well are that's fine for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3189">TS</a>]

00:53:11   Merlin moment which is where you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3191">TS</a>]

00:53:12   have come in any point but Hatton that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3192">TS</a>]

00:53:14   why I'm from Merlin moment is that well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3194">TS</a>]

00:53:15   that's fine in 1984 and we had seven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3195">TS</a>]

00:53:17   files but now we've got a bazillion file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3197">TS</a>]

00:53:19   so all the spatial business is crap and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3199">TS</a>]

00:53:21   it's pointless and we shouldn't use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3201">TS</a>]

00:53:22   well I would point is as an example of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3202">TS</a>]

00:53:25   modern incarnation of a spatial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3205">TS</a>]

00:53:27   interface show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3207">TS</a>]

00:53:28   it's value even though when you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3208">TS</a>]

00:53:29   year 2000 in the next millennium and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3209">TS</a>]

00:53:32   stuff but I keep coming back to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3212">TS</a>]

00:53:35   spatial recognition is still the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3215">TS</a>]

00:53:37   efficient way you have to to recognize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3217">TS</a>]

00:53:39   stuff if you have a lot of things you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3219">TS</a>]

00:53:41   have to fall back to less efficient [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3221">TS</a>]

00:53:43   methods yes so for example on iOS if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3223">TS</a>]

00:53:44   have 8 bazillion apps and you can't find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3224">TS</a>]

00:53:47   them because you're sick of swiped into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3227">TS</a>]

00:53:49   the screens you might resort to search [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3229">TS</a>]

00:53:50   but that's that's a resort if we said to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3230">TS</a>]

00:53:53   launch any app you have to do search [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3233">TS</a>]

00:53:54   you'd say that that sucks give me back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3234">TS</a>]

00:53:55   my little grid of icons right you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3235">TS</a>]

00:53:58   there may be better ways to do it than a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3238">TS</a>]

00:54:00   grid of icons but it's it's you know for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3240">TS</a>]

00:54:04   a small number of things it's good and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3244">TS</a>]

00:54:06   we want to use that when we can and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3246">TS</a>]

00:54:07   you happen to install more apps in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3247">TS</a>]

00:54:09   you don't like rummaging around farther [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3249">TS</a>]

00:54:10   than you can resort to search but but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3250">TS</a>]

00:54:13   it's still a fallback browsing would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3253">TS</a>]

00:54:15   somewhere in the middle there where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3255">TS</a>]

00:54:16   don't want to swipe around from screen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3256">TS</a>]

00:54:18   to screen you want to have some sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3258">TS</a>]

00:54:19   browsing interface where you can tap tap [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3259">TS</a>]

00:54:20   tap and drill your way down to something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3260">TS</a>]

00:54:22   but you really don't have too much of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3262">TS</a>]

00:54:23   hierarchy and in iOS for that and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3263">TS</a>]

00:54:27   finder is similar I think it should be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3267">TS</a>]

00:54:28   hierarchy of things where and it kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3268">TS</a>]

00:54:31   is a Mac OS then where for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3271">TS</a>]

00:54:33   applications in that goes down the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3273">TS</a>]

00:54:34   application to use the most for regular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3274">TS</a>]

00:54:36   people are in the dock that's that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3276">TS</a>]

00:54:37   pretty much a spatial interface you put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3277">TS</a>]

00:54:39   them where you want them in the dock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3279">TS</a>]

00:54:40   they stay there the dock is always in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3280">TS</a>]

00:54:41   the same place assuming you don't move [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3281">TS</a>]

00:54:42   it and that's your top level we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3282">TS</a>]

00:54:44   finding stuff and if you have more than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3284">TS</a>]

00:54:47   that like most of us do you want some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3287">TS</a>]

00:54:49   sort of second level let's go with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3289">TS</a>]

00:54:50   search and I use Quicksilver for that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3290">TS</a>]

00:54:52   where you know it's it's search but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3292">TS</a>]

00:54:54   really really fast and it's limited to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3294">TS</a>]

00:54:55   just applications real like ok it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3295">TS</a>]

00:54:57   in the dock but I know I have this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3297">TS</a>]

00:54:58   application let me do command space and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3298">TS</a>]

00:55:00   type the first few letters the thing oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3300">TS</a>]

00:55:01   there it is it returned right but that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3301">TS</a>]

00:55:03   that's the second level very very few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3303">TS</a>]

00:55:05   people I would imagine are using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3305">TS</a>]

00:55:07   Quicksilver to launch an app that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3307">TS</a>]

00:55:08   have in the dock maybe if they're always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3308">TS</a>]

00:55:10   on the keyboard and their hands aren't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3310">TS</a>]

00:55:11   on the mouse they might find that more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3311">TS</a>]

00:55:12   efficient and in Lion they're adding one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3312">TS</a>]

00:55:14   more intermediate layer there where it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3314">TS</a>]

00:55:16   not you don't see it in the dock well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3316">TS</a>]

00:55:18   we'll give you like springboard and Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3318">TS</a>]

00:55:19   os10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3319">TS</a>]

00:55:20   right so it's its launch pad thing where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3320">TS</a>]

00:55:21   they're going to give you essentially a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3321">TS</a>]

00:55:23   spatial view of all your applications in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3323">TS</a>]

00:55:26   a grid presumably arranged in some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3326">TS</a>]

00:55:29   fashion I don't know if you can manually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3329">TS</a>]

00:55:30   arrange those things or if they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3330">TS</a>]

00:55:31   alphabetical or whatever that it remains [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3331">TS</a>]

00:55:33   to be seen whether this will be truly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3333">TS</a>]

00:55:34   spatial but they don't want you to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3334">TS</a>]

00:55:35   to resort to rummaging through the file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3335">TS</a>]

00:55:37   system and when it comes to rummaging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3337">TS</a>]

00:55:39   through the file system which we do do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3339">TS</a>]

00:55:40   increasingly less with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3340">TS</a>]

00:55:42   you could use a browser to do that if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3342">TS</a>]

00:55:44   you want I just have one window and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3344">TS</a>]

00:55:45   don't really know where things are or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3345">TS</a>]

00:55:47   you could do it the pseudo spatial way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3347">TS</a>]

00:55:50   and hope you just don't get any browser [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3350">TS</a>]

00:55:51   windows in between but the main pitch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3351">TS</a>]

00:55:54   the spatial finder is that spatial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3354">TS</a>]

00:55:57   interfaces is good are good and anytime [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3357">TS</a>]

00:55:59   you do something that makes them not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3359">TS</a>]

00:56:01   work you're probably making a mistake [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3361">TS</a>]

00:56:03   and so into the definer in particular I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3363">TS</a>]

00:56:06   think it's a shame that they ditched the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3366">TS</a>]

00:56:08   spatial way to operate it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3368">TS</a>]

00:56:11   simply because for many classes of work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3371">TS</a>]

00:56:13   that is still the most efficient method [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3373">TS</a>]

00:56:15   and there's no reason to forgo entirely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3375">TS</a>]

00:56:16   add the other methods fine make search [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3376">TS</a>]

00:56:18   better add browsing fine but there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3378">TS</a>]

00:56:20   reason to kill the spatial way and many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3380">TS</a>]

00:56:23   reasons to keep it as evidence by I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3383">TS</a>]

00:56:24   wasn't stuff for that that's basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3384">TS</a>]

00:56:26   what they started with before they even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3386">TS</a>]

00:56:27   had search it was all staged and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3387">TS</a>]

00:56:28   worked buying a work where can people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3388">TS</a>]

00:56:29   loved it and found it easy to use so how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3389">TS</a>]

00:56:33   can I disagree with you means makes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3393">TS</a>]

00:56:35   sense that's why I didn't want to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3395">TS</a>]

00:56:36   this show because it makes sense we had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3396">TS</a>]

00:56:38   more time you would argue more maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3398">TS</a>]

00:56:40   we'll come back to it so I hope not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3400">TS</a>]

00:56:42   because I don't like this time I feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3402">TS</a>]

00:56:44   like you said B's I don't disagree with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3404">TS</a>]

00:56:46   you it's fine spatial fun great I want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3406">TS</a>]

00:56:49   to tell you about the finder where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3409">TS</a>]

00:56:50   fly through the file system like that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3410">TS</a>]

00:56:52   know you're bringing that up as a what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3412">TS</a>]

00:56:53   is a making fun of this all spatial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3413">TS</a>]

00:56:55   interface no one wants to fly through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3415">TS</a>]

00:56:56   stuff you know what about that weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3416">TS</a>]

00:57:00   finder where things are up on the walls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3420">TS</a>]

00:57:01   it's like a 3d thing you flip it around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3421">TS</a>]

00:57:03   you know I'm talking about I don't but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3423">TS</a>]

00:57:07   it looks like a room you can put stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3427">TS</a>]

00:57:08   on the walls of your room oh yeah oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3428">TS</a>]

00:57:10   yeah yeah yeah I've seen those it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3430">TS</a>]

00:57:12   weird yeah no but I got a rat we got to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3432">TS</a>]

00:57:17   stop I get a stop I got a the real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3437">TS</a>]

00:57:19   estate person wait I got literally we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3439">TS</a>]

00:57:20   get into a car right now all right all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3440">TS</a>]

00:57:23   right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3443">TS</a>]

00:57:23   to be continued possibly huh we'll see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3443">TS</a>]

00:57:25   don't send us email about it we'll just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3445">TS</a>]

00:57:27   because we don't need more moments [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3447">TS</a>]

00:57:29   but John have a great week thanks forfor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3449">TS</a>]

00:57:31   compressing yourself down into just 60 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3451">TS</a>]

00:57:33   minutes I try and thanks everybody for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3453">TS</a>]

00:57:36   listening pee sure to check out get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3456">TS</a>]

00:57:38   harvest calm and felt-tip calm and can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3458">TS</a>]

00:57:43   follow John it what is it siracusa si [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3463">TS</a>]

00:57:47   RAC us a on Twitter I'm Dan benjamin on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3467">TS</a>]

00:57:50   twitter and we appreciate you being here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3470">TS</a>]

00:57:52   today thanks everybody tuning in thanks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3472">TS</a>]

00:57:54   John have a great Memorial Day weekend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3474">TS</a>]

00:57:55   you too and that's it everybody will see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3475">TS</a>]

00:57:59   y'all again next week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3479">TS</a>]

00:58:10   you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+IpknVnr4/3490">TS</a>]