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Hypercritical

15: The Bridges of Siracusa County

 

00:00:00   [Music] [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/0">TS</a>]

00:00:02   the name of this show is hypercritical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2">TS</a>]

00:00:04   it's a weekly talkshow ruminating on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4">TS</a>]

00:00:07   exactly what is wrong in the world of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/7">TS</a>]

00:00:08   Apple and related technologies and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/8">TS</a>]

00:00:10   businesses john siracusa and i i'm dan [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/10">TS</a>]

00:00:13   benjamin we'll talk about how things go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/13">TS</a>]

00:00:17   well and sometimes don't go so well for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/17">TS</a>]

00:00:19   companies like Apple right as we talked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/19">TS</a>]

00:00:21   about here it's not just us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/21">TS</a>]

00:00:23   yeah and the fact is John nothing is so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/23">TS</a>]

00:00:26   perfect that you can't complain about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/26">TS</a>]

00:00:28   that's what we say that's true and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/28">TS</a>]

00:00:30   would like to thank the Intuit small [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/30">TS</a>]

00:00:32   business blog and their mobile app as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/32">TS</a>]

00:00:35   well as campaign monitors world view for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/35">TS</a>]

00:00:38   making the show possible will tell you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/38">TS</a>]

00:00:39   more about those as the show progresses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/39">TS</a>]

00:00:41   so what are we complaining about today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/41">TS</a>]

00:00:42   first day of you right you get a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/42">TS</a>]

00:00:45   you you know the whole show is a few not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/45">TS</a>]

00:00:48   too much today I turned a lot because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/48">TS</a>]

00:00:50   know we have a lot of stuff to get do I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/50">TS</a>]

00:00:51   mean you're trying to keep the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/51">TS</a>]

00:00:52   short now right got had to had some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/52">TS</a>]

00:00:55   requests that the show be Whedon that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/55">TS</a>]

00:00:58   not not cutting it short that's not the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/58">TS</a>]

00:01:00   right thing but just make keeping track [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/60">TS</a>]

00:01:02   of time a person who asked that didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/62">TS</a>]

00:01:04   even mention my show so he probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/64">TS</a>]

00:01:06   doesn't even listen I don't think he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/66">TS</a>]

00:01:08   aware of your show he probably looked at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/68">TS</a>]

00:01:09   the runtime of it and said I can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/69">TS</a>]

00:01:11   listen it might have been short not that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/71">TS</a>]

00:01:13   long not doing to our things I can use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/73">TS</a>]

00:01:15   bond tacked on to the end or anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/75">TS</a>]

00:01:16   yeah I think you got of all the shows I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/76">TS</a>]

00:01:19   think you are probably the most time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/79">TS</a>]

00:01:20   sensitive there you go so I feel no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/80">TS</a>]

00:01:24   compunction to try to cut it short all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/84">TS</a>]

00:01:26   right don't cut it normal any shorter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/86">TS</a>]

00:01:28   that I normally do don't do anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/88">TS</a>]

00:01:29   else don't don't change a thing okay so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/89">TS</a>]

00:01:32   follow up time so we missed last week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/92">TS</a>]

00:01:35   because I was on vacation you were on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/95">TS</a>]

00:01:37   vacation we tried to schedule it before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/97">TS</a>]

00:01:39   you had you had told me six or seven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/99">TS</a>]

00:01:42   weeks earlier that you were going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/102">TS</a>]

00:01:44   on vacation I put it on the calendar and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/104">TS</a>]

00:01:46   then I didn't I didn't remember or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/106">TS</a>]

00:01:48   something so it's it was not your fault [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/108">TS</a>]

00:01:49   that we didn't have a show it's probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/109">TS</a>]

00:01:50   mine but but the fact was you were not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/110">TS</a>]

00:01:53   available at the regular time and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/113">TS</a>]

00:01:56   didn't realize that we had changed it so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/116">TS</a>]

00:01:59   anyway so I'm going back to shows for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/119">TS</a>]

00:02:01   some follow up stuff are two weeks but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/121">TS</a>]

00:02:03   it's just one show so last time what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/123">TS</a>]

00:02:07   we're talking about we're talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/127">TS</a>]

00:02:07   objective-c and stuff like that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/127">TS</a>]

00:02:09   high-level language is low-level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/129">TS</a>]

00:02:12   languages yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/132">TS</a>]

00:02:13   I thought it was a shame that some of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/133">TS</a>]

00:02:14   that stuff there was at least two or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/134">TS</a>]

00:02:16   three good points that bled over into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/136">TS</a>]

00:02:18   the after dark so I put in the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/138">TS</a>]

00:02:20   notes like this week the link to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/140">TS</a>]

00:02:22   after dark most of which is just typical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/142">TS</a>]

00:02:23   after dark stuff but there are one or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/143">TS</a>]

00:02:26   two good points in there about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/146">TS</a>]

00:02:28   objective-c stuff that I wish I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/148">TS</a>]

00:02:30   gotten into the regular show huh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/150">TS</a>]

00:02:32   mostly having to do with how the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/152">TS</a>]

00:02:35   at Apple how the employees at Apple are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/155">TS</a>]

00:02:37   probably not properly motivated to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/157">TS</a>]

00:02:40   resolve the situation talked about in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/160">TS</a>]

00:02:42   the previous show so I want to go into a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/162">TS</a>]

00:02:44   now for time purposes but if you want a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/164">TS</a>]

00:02:45   little bit more on that topic I suggest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/165">TS</a>]

00:02:47   checking out the after dark which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/167">TS</a>]

00:02:49   that that's super hidden link but if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/169">TS</a>]

00:02:50   go to the show notes for the show you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/170">TS</a>]

00:02:51   will find the link to it and I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/171">TS</a>]

00:02:53   also suggest subscribing to that because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/173">TS</a>]

00:02:55   it's usually pretty funny it's not just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/175">TS</a>]

00:02:57   all hypercritical after dark it's all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/177">TS</a>]

00:02:58   sorts of shows a lot of cursing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/178">TS</a>]

00:03:01   everybody who asks for cursing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/181">TS</a>]

00:03:03   doesn't understand why we edit out the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/183">TS</a>]

00:03:05   profanity no holds barred there it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/185">TS</a>]

00:03:09   marked as explicit it's not part of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/189">TS</a>]

00:03:11   master feed it's like a little Easter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/191">TS</a>]

00:03:13   egg you gotta go find it it'll find it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/193">TS</a>]

00:03:16   so it's interesting that when I did the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/196">TS</a>]

00:03:19   original series on the the Copeland 2010 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/199">TS</a>]

00:03:23   stuff a whole bunch of articles like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/203">TS</a>]

00:03:26   many years ago and I got a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/206">TS</a>]

00:03:28   responses eventually asking about Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/208">TS</a>]

00:03:31   Ruby mm-hmm and which I I should also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/211">TS</a>]

00:03:34   mention I erroneously referred to as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/214">TS</a>]

00:03:37   JRuby I said I knew what you meant you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/217">TS</a>]

00:03:39   knew what I meant and you were too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/219">TS</a>]

00:03:40   polite to correct me I clearly know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/220">TS</a>]

00:03:42   difference I've used both I meant Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/222">TS</a>]

00:03:44   Ruby thanks for the thousands of emails [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/224">TS</a>]

00:03:46   and Twitter comments about that I do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/226">TS</a>]

00:03:49   know the difference and thank you for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/229">TS</a>]

00:03:51   reminding me yeah so the Mac group [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/231">TS</a>]

00:03:55   people emailed a lot this was many years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/235">TS</a>]

00:03:57   ago back when Mac Ruby was younger and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/237">TS</a>]

00:03:59   their email enthusiasm kind of tapered [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/239">TS</a>]

00:04:02   off over time but then when I brought it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/242">TS</a>]

00:04:05   up on the show they came back and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/245">TS</a>]

00:04:07   said hey what about Mac Ruby partly my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/247">TS</a>]

00:04:09   fault for forgetting to talk about Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/249">TS</a>]

00:04:12   Ruby because it is definitely we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/252">TS</a>]

00:04:13   talking about a well a show I talked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/253">TS</a>]

00:04:14   about how bridges stink on you have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/254">TS</a>]

00:04:18   bridge to an API that's written for one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/258">TS</a>]

00:04:21   language where you get to write to it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/261">TS</a>]

00:04:22   another language and bridge connects the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/262">TS</a>]

00:04:24   two things together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/264">TS</a>]

00:04:26   and I said I described lots of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/266">TS</a>]

00:04:28   that are bad about bridges and how you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/268">TS</a>]

00:04:30   don't get to use the the cool features [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/270">TS</a>]

00:04:32   of the high-level language that you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/272">TS</a>]

00:04:34   to use because you're too busy doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/274">TS</a>]

00:04:35   things in terms of the lower-level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/275">TS</a>]

00:04:36   language right so the nigra people then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/276">TS</a>]

00:04:39   as now bring up the points that a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/279">TS</a>]

00:04:42   things I was asking for Mac would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/282">TS</a>]

00:04:43   deliver so there's links in the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/283">TS</a>]

00:04:45   notes to Mac repeat you should check it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/285">TS</a>]

00:04:46   out but just some examples like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/286">TS</a>]

00:04:49   don't have to deal with you know making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/289">TS</a>]

00:04:51   NS strings or whatever when you do in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/291">TS</a>]

00:04:53   cocoa programming and Mac Ruby because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/293">TS</a>]

00:04:55   the the bridge makes ruby strings into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/295">TS</a>]

00:04:58   bridged over to NS mutable strings and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/298">TS</a>]

00:05:00   the Ruby hashes are really NS mutable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/300">TS</a>]

00:05:03   dictionaries under the covers and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/303">TS</a>]

00:05:04   Ruby objects are really Objective C [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/304">TS</a>]

00:05:06   objects so you're not just using like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/306">TS</a>]

00:05:09   the skin of the language to call api's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/309">TS</a>]

00:05:11   in some other language they've taken a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/311">TS</a>]

00:05:13   lot of the native data structures and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/313">TS</a>]

00:05:17   features and interesting tidbits in Ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/317">TS</a>]

00:05:20   and found in Objective C equivalent and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/320">TS</a>]

00:05:22   mapped it to that hmm now and also this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/322">TS</a>]

00:05:29   is the other thing people like to bring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/329">TS</a>]

00:05:30   up is hey this is an Apple project like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/330">TS</a>]

00:05:32   Apple developers are working on it it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/332">TS</a>]

00:05:36   the people you know it's not just some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/336">TS</a>]

00:05:38   random third party thing it's actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/338">TS</a>]

00:05:39   under the auspices of Apple in some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/339">TS</a>]

00:05:41   fashion a lot of Apple's open-source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/341">TS</a>]

00:05:43   stuff it's hard to tell what is you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/343">TS</a>]

00:05:47   just a project with some people at Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/347">TS</a>]

00:05:48   wanted to do and it bosses let them do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/348">TS</a>]

00:05:49   versus what is a strategic initiative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/349">TS</a>]

00:05:52   that's poor important for the entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/352">TS</a>]

00:05:53   company and often a project will start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/353">TS</a>]

00:05:55   in one way and transition to the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/355">TS</a>]

00:05:58   thing like LLVM probably started life as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/358">TS</a>]

00:06:01   let's just you know hire this guy and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/361">TS</a>]

00:06:03   check out this type of thing and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/363">TS</a>]

00:06:04   there was a you know an effort to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/364">TS</a>]

00:06:06   convince the powers-that-be and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/366">TS</a>]

00:06:08   eventually the entire company that hey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/368">TS</a>]

00:06:10   we're going to transition our entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/370">TS</a>]

00:06:11   compiler strategy to this new thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/371">TS</a>]

00:06:13   here's how we're going to do it and lo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/373">TS</a>]

00:06:14   and behold here we are today and we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/374">TS</a>]

00:06:15   almost completely transitioned so Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/375">TS</a>]

00:06:17   Ruby could be like that someday but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/377">TS</a>]

00:06:19   what I said about Mac Ruby many years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/379">TS</a>]

00:06:22   ago still holds today and that I still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/382">TS</a>]

00:06:25   don't think a bridge is the is the right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/385">TS</a>]

00:06:27   answer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/387">TS</a>]

00:06:28   cocoa is still designed for objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/388">TS</a>]

00:06:30   and even if you're mapping you know your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/390">TS</a>]

00:06:32   types from the higher-level language to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/392">TS</a>]

00:06:34   low-level one you're still dealing with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/394">TS</a>]

00:06:36   you know an disputable strings under the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/396">TS</a>]

00:06:38   covers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/398">TS</a>]

00:06:39   yeah no it's the API is made it's not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/399">TS</a>]

00:06:43   ruby API if you look at the API you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/403">TS</a>]

00:06:44   would say well that reminds me of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/404">TS</a>]

00:06:45   know Rails or some other API that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/405">TS</a>]

00:06:48   idiomatic at like like the bills for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/408">TS</a>]

00:06:51   Ruby language you look at it and say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/411">TS</a>]

00:06:53   well that that sure looks a lot like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/413">TS</a>]

00:06:54   objective-c to me in this all sorts of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/414">TS</a>]

00:06:57   api's but there's no reasonable way to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/417">TS</a>]

00:06:58   bridge you just have to call these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/418">TS</a>]

00:07:00   methods and with these name parameters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/420">TS</a>]

00:07:03   that look like a projective seeing like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/423">TS</a>]

00:07:04   man why do we need all this parameters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/424">TS</a>]

00:07:05   why am i passing in a value that's going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/425">TS</a>]

00:07:07   to be a read/write attribute that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/427">TS</a>]

00:07:09   going to have the error written into it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/429">TS</a>]

00:07:10   and all sorts of stuff like that it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/430">TS</a>]

00:07:12   sort of not the Ruby way but you still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/432">TS</a>]

00:07:14   have to write to those languages there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/434">TS</a>]

00:07:17   the two layers of debugging problem or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/437">TS</a>]

00:07:18   anytime you have sort of a bridge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/438">TS</a>]

00:07:19   language you would like to debug it the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/439">TS</a>]

00:07:21   Ruby level but the API and you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/441">TS</a>]

00:07:24   executing code is executing at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/444">TS</a>]

00:07:26   objective-c level and so if you're using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/446">TS</a>]

00:07:27   gdb or LDB or something you're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/447">TS</a>]

00:07:30   debugging Ruby you're debugging lower [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/450">TS</a>]

00:07:32   level than that so then they have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/452">TS</a>]

00:07:33   write a higher level of debugger but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/453">TS</a>]

00:07:36   sometimes you might want to look at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/456">TS</a>]

00:07:37   lower level stuff so you have two layers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/457">TS</a>]

00:07:38   of debuggers to deal with and if your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/458">TS</a>]

00:07:41   bugs in the bridge that's like the worst [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/461">TS</a>]

00:07:42   possible situation when there are bugs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/462">TS</a>]

00:07:43   in the bridge itself and you're trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/463">TS</a>]

00:07:45   to debug with the problem is and there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/465">TS</a>]

00:07:48   the fact that to write a reasonable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/468">TS</a>]

00:07:50   cocoa program you're not just writing to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/470">TS</a>]

00:07:52   cocoa you're also doing your core [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/472">TS</a>]

00:07:53   graphics and core foundation and other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/473">TS</a>]

00:07:55   API is to really are lower level and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/475">TS</a>]

00:07:58   can bridge them too but it's even bigger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/478">TS</a>]

00:07:59   mismatch between what Ruby expects and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/479">TS</a>]

00:08:01   what these you know native C API is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/481">TS</a>]

00:08:05   sounding Objective C it's just plain C [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/485">TS</a>]

00:08:08   and if you try to keep that paper over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/488">TS</a>]

00:08:11   that then the developers feel like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/491">TS</a>]

00:08:14   they're being kept away from the power [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/494">TS</a>]

00:08:16   tools like oh I really want to use core [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/496">TS</a>]

00:08:17   graphics to do some drawings here but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/497">TS</a>]

00:08:19   the Ruby language makes it discourages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/499">TS</a>]

00:08:22   me from reaching down to do that or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/502">TS</a>]

00:08:24   makes it more difficult and more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/504">TS</a>]

00:08:25   cumbersome or doesn't feel like I'm I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/505">TS</a>]

00:08:26   you know doing things the right way and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/506">TS</a>]

00:08:29   there's also the the non-native problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/509">TS</a>]

00:08:32   you're like well I'm going to write a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/512">TS</a>]

00:08:33   cocoa application well are you going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/513">TS</a>]

00:08:35   use like the native language for writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/515">TS</a>]

00:08:37   cocoa applications Objective C or you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/517">TS</a>]

00:08:39   can use a bridge language because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/519">TS</a>]

00:08:40   need a crutch sure because you're a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/520">TS</a>]

00:08:41   whimper because but you know it's at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/521">TS</a>]

00:08:43   this macho this macho thing where there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/523">TS</a>]

00:08:46   would be is divided between the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/526">TS</a>]

00:08:47   old-school people like I'm writing a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/527">TS</a>]

00:08:49   real native cocoa application and you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/529">TS</a>]

00:08:51   not because you're using this other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/531">TS</a>]

00:08:52   thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/532">TS</a>]

00:08:53   and with all that said it's like would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/533">TS</a>]

00:08:56   experienced objective-c developers see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/536">TS</a>]

00:08:59   enough reason to switch like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/539">TS</a>]

00:09:00   obviously if you're the best objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/540">TS</a>]

00:09:02   programs today are comfortable with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/542">TS</a>]

00:09:04   Objective C so there has to be something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/544">TS</a>]

00:09:07   pretty significant to make them switch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/547">TS</a>]

00:09:08   you have that a carrot as well as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/548">TS</a>]

00:09:09   stick now Apple could just force [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/549">TS</a>]

00:09:11   everyone to switch and so you know Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/551">TS</a>]

00:09:12   Ruby is going to be the thing it's our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/552">TS</a>]

00:09:14   new high-level language is slowly going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/554">TS</a>]

00:09:15   to transition away from you know C based [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/555">TS</a>]

00:09:17   languages and and this is the path and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/557">TS</a>]

00:09:19   you're gonna have to go to it that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/559">TS</a>]

00:09:21   stick version but the carrot has to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/561">TS</a>]

00:09:23   hey awesome Objective C developers who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/563">TS</a>]

00:09:25   have made our platform what it is here's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/565">TS</a>]

00:09:28   the good things that await you if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/568">TS</a>]

00:09:29   stop writing your your code in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/569">TS</a>]

00:09:32   start writing it in that I think that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/572">TS</a>]

00:09:33   a tough sell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/573">TS</a>]

00:09:34   because I mean it's hard enough for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/574">TS</a>]

00:09:35   Apple to even get the real old-school [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/575">TS</a>]

00:09:38   Objective C guys to use the dot syntax [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/578">TS</a>]

00:09:39   for properties let alone to switch to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/579">TS</a>]

00:09:42   like a high-level language into mints [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/582">TS</a>]

00:09:44   then there's you know there's a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/584">TS</a>]

00:09:45   reason to do that so I have to come down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/585">TS</a>]

00:09:49   a similar position as I did many years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/589">TS</a>]

00:09:51   ago on Mac Ruby is that I don't think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/591">TS</a>]

00:09:53   bridges are the answer and I don't think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/593">TS</a>]

00:09:54   my Mac Ruby is the answer certainly it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/594">TS</a>]

00:09:56   the best bridge I've seen and it has the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/596">TS</a>]

00:09:58   most promise and if Apple wanted to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/598">TS</a>]

00:09:59   it work they could but I don't think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/599">TS</a>]

00:10:01   it's the best solution I think it's kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/601">TS</a>]

00:10:03   of like a half measure and maybe that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/603">TS</a>]

00:10:05   something in favor of it in that if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/605">TS</a>]

00:10:07   you're going to transition to something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/607">TS</a>]

00:10:08   don't make this big giant leap I think I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/608">TS</a>]

00:10:12   come down the other side I say that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/612">TS</a>]

00:10:13   big giant leap is the only way you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/613">TS</a>]

00:10:15   going to the only way you're gonna have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/615">TS</a>]

00:10:17   a carrot big enough to get people to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/617">TS</a>]

00:10:18   come over you know it's it to say this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/618">TS</a>]

00:10:21   is totally different than what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/621">TS</a>]

00:10:22   expected it's awesome in ways that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/622">TS</a>]

00:10:24   haven't even imagined and it's so unlike [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/624">TS</a>]

00:10:26   what you've done before that it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/626">TS</a>]

00:10:28   won't end up making unfavorable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/628">TS</a>]

00:10:30   comparisons to the objective-c that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/630">TS</a>]

00:10:31   you're used to and then it'll be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/631">TS</a>]

00:10:33   gradual transition to whatever this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/633">TS</a>]

00:10:34   thing is but as I said in the previous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/634">TS</a>]

00:10:35   show I have no idea what that thing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/635">TS</a>]

00:10:37   so it's easy for me to say I'll just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/637">TS</a>]

00:10:39   make it awesome and really radically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/639">TS</a>]

00:10:41   different than what's out there now and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/641">TS</a>]

00:10:42   everyone want to switch to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/642">TS</a>]

00:10:44   so that's Mac Ruby I I think it's it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/644">TS</a>]

00:10:48   plausible contender Apple can make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/648">TS</a>]

00:10:51   work but that I so far don't see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/651">TS</a>]

00:10:53   anything that makes me think Apple has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/653">TS</a>]

00:10:55   blessed that as the next generation I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/655">TS</a>]

00:10:57   think it's definitely in the interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/657">TS</a>]

00:10:59   experiment phase and I haven't seen any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/659">TS</a>]

00:11:02   moves from Apple that make me think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/662">TS</a>]

00:11:03   otherwise what did you think about if if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/663">TS</a>]

00:11:05   you remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/665">TS</a>]

00:11:06   when I guess I don't say when Mac os10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/666">TS</a>]

00:11:09   was gaining prominence as a really cool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/669">TS</a>]

00:11:12   place to build apps but it was at that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/672">TS</a>]

00:11:14   turning point when things were were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/674">TS</a>]

00:11:17   really Apple was really really pushing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/677">TS</a>]

00:11:19   to try and get as many people on board [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/679">TS</a>]

00:11:21   with developing Mac OS 10 applications [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/681">TS</a>]

00:11:24   in any capacity and if you remember and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/684">TS</a>]

00:11:26   we talked about this a little bit you've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/686">TS</a>]

00:11:27   touched on it again there was the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/687">TS</a>]

00:11:30   Java you could use jaw you could write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/690">TS</a>]

00:11:31   absent Java right there inside of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/691">TS</a>]

00:11:34   you know the SDK you could just write in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/694">TS</a>]

00:11:37   Java and they never really they made a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/697">TS</a>]

00:11:41   big deal out of the fact that they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/701">TS</a>]

00:11:43   that and that you could do that but they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/703">TS</a>]

00:11:45   never really really got in there and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/705">TS</a>]

00:11:48   supported it they never really had fully [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/708">TS</a>]

00:11:50   fluid you know fleshed out documentation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/710">TS</a>]

00:11:52   for it and then it they just kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/712">TS</a>]

00:11:54   swept it under the rug and forgot about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/714">TS</a>]

00:11:55   it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/715">TS</a>]

00:11:56   and the people who were you know like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/716">TS</a>]

00:11:59   the big nerd ranch guys you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/719">TS</a>]

00:12:02   those books always said look if you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/722">TS</a>]

00:12:03   going to build apps in Mac OS 10 just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/723">TS</a>]

00:12:05   bite the bullet learn objective-c don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/725">TS</a>]

00:12:07   do it in Java it's not as good and some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/727">TS</a>]

00:12:11   of the first versions of the encoder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/731">TS</a>]

00:12:12   which is one of the few cocoa apps or I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/732">TS</a>]

00:12:15   should say Mac OS 10 apps that I built [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/735">TS</a>]

00:12:16   we actually had some parts of it that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/736">TS</a>]

00:12:18   were in Java and it was true it just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/738">TS</a>]

00:12:21   made more sense to just do in an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/741">TS</a>]

00:12:22   objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/742">TS</a>]

00:12:23   don't you need apples involvement to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/743">TS</a>]

00:12:26   rienne commitment to really make that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/746">TS</a>]

00:12:29   successful to know that you're investing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/749">TS</a>]

00:12:32   in something that's that's long-term as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/752">TS</a>]

00:12:33   a developer at that time I wasn't coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/753">TS</a>]

00:12:37   from a position of strength with respect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/757">TS</a>]

00:12:39   to languages they were like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/759">TS</a>]

00:12:42   they had the capability to have a Java [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/762">TS</a>]

00:12:45   bridge Java was really popular back then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/765">TS</a>]

00:12:47   and they were trying to figure out how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/767">TS</a>]

00:12:48   do we get developers and if the Java was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/768">TS</a>]

00:12:50   going to be the way that they did it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/770">TS</a>]

00:12:51   someone an apple thought that that would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/771">TS</a>]

00:12:54   be a good idea and that the powers to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/774">TS</a>]

00:12:56   said okay fine you know let's give that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/776">TS</a>]

00:12:58   a try we're going to do the carbon thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/778">TS</a>]

00:12:59   we're going to do cocoa right and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/779">TS</a>]

00:13:01   want you think you can do a job a bridge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/781">TS</a>]

00:13:03   we'll try that too just because they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/783">TS</a>]

00:13:05   were hedging their bets they want to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/785">TS</a>]

00:13:07   you know we got to do everything we can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/787">TS</a>]

00:13:08   to get people to develop this I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/788">TS</a>]

00:13:09   think they knew what the result would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/789">TS</a>]

00:13:11   because they were coming from a ton of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/791">TS</a>]

00:13:13   developers who wrote Mac toolbox [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/793">TS</a>]

00:13:15   applications right on power plant or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/795">TS</a>]

00:13:17   whatever so they had to have Carbon for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/797">TS</a>]

00:13:18   them like they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/798">TS</a>]

00:13:19   learn that lesson so the Apple guys were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/799">TS</a>]

00:13:22   saying it you know koko necks may be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/802">TS</a>]

00:13:24   great but there's not that many necks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/804">TS</a>]

00:13:25   developers in the world and we're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/805">TS</a>]

00:13:27   sure that we can convince our huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/807">TS</a>]

00:13:29   stable of experienced Mac developers to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/809">TS</a>]

00:13:32   switch to this thing that you love so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/812">TS</a>]

00:13:33   much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/813">TS</a>]

00:13:33   so that was one bet and then someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/813">TS</a>]

00:13:35   else is saying well job is really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/815">TS</a>]

00:13:36   popular and there's tons of java [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/816">TS</a>]

00:13:38   programmers in the world so let's try [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/818">TS</a>]

00:13:40   that let's see if we can get you know a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/820">TS</a>]

00:13:42   you know hey you can write Mac OS 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/822">TS</a>]

00:13:44   applications in Java and they'll be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/824">TS</a>]

00:13:46   awesome so give that a try and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/826">TS</a>]

00:13:48   objective-c guys you're next people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/828">TS</a>]

00:13:49   we're going to make them use your API [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/829">TS</a>]

00:13:51   but we're just going to use a different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/831">TS</a>]

00:13:52   language that I want to learn Objective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/832">TS</a>]

00:13:53   C so they had all these irons in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/833">TS</a>]

00:13:55   fire the fact that the Objective C [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/835">TS</a>]

00:13:58   proponents were inside the company and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/838">TS</a>]

00:14:00   there were a lot of them and they slowly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/840">TS</a>]

00:14:03   came to dominance probably helped but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/843">TS</a>]

00:14:04   also helps that you know people did the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/844">TS</a>]

00:14:06   math may said well I might as well just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/846">TS</a>]

00:14:09   learn this objective-c thing it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/849">TS</a>]

00:14:10   two differents got some weird square [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/850">TS</a>]

00:14:11   brackets but it's mostly just C and most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/851">TS</a>]

00:14:14   of them were more inclined to go from C [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/854">TS</a>]

00:14:16   C++ to Objective C than to go from C C++ [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/856">TS</a>]

00:14:18   to Java and the final thing is the Java [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/858">TS</a>]

00:14:22   thing was a bridge and bridges stink it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/862">TS</a>]

00:14:24   gets back to my whole you know bridge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/864">TS</a>]

00:14:25   thing they don't want to do it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/865">TS</a>]

00:14:27   like the real API it's not the real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/867">TS</a>]

00:14:30   language do is it was a bridge and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/870">TS</a>]

00:14:31   know like you said when you look at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/871">TS</a>]

00:14:33   docs Doc's talked about Objective C [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/873">TS</a>]

00:14:35   because they were pre-existing things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/875">TS</a>]

00:14:36   they didn't talk about Joplin it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/876">TS</a>]

00:14:37   just a big mess so the Java bridge fell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/877">TS</a>]

00:14:40   by the wayside had to be supported for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/880">TS</a>]

00:14:42   many many years just out of respect for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/882">TS</a>]

00:14:44   the people who did sort of put some time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/884">TS</a>]

00:14:46   into it but eventually they dropped it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/886">TS</a>]

00:14:47   and you know carbon has gone by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/887">TS</a>]

00:14:49   wayside too like we went through the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/889">TS</a>]

00:14:51   transition the bottom line is that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/891">TS</a>]

00:14:52   moved everybody into a cocoa and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/892">TS</a>]

00:14:54   objective-c they found their winner in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/894">TS</a>]

00:14:56   that in that competition but it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/896">TS</a>]

00:14:59   interesting that they had like they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/899">TS</a>]

00:15:00   basically a memory manage language it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/900">TS</a>]

00:15:02   just didn't work out for reasons not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/902">TS</a>]

00:15:04   really related language mostly related [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/904">TS</a>]

00:15:05   to the fact that it's a bridge and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/905">TS</a>]

00:15:06   because they were using that language to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/906">TS</a>]

00:15:08   write to an API that was made for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/908">TS</a>]

00:15:09   Objective C I'm with you all right I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/909">TS</a>]

00:15:16   got one more so would you would you then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/916">TS</a>]

00:15:18   go so far as to say John that the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/918">TS</a>]

00:15:22   concept of of a bridge is a bad concept [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/922">TS</a>]

00:15:26   and Java is proof of that or you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/926">TS</a>]

00:15:28   wouldn't you go that far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/928">TS</a>]

00:15:29   I think the concept I think bridges are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/929">TS</a>]

00:15:31   bad in general [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/931">TS</a>]

00:15:32   doesn't mean you can't make it work if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/932">TS</a>]

00:15:33   they like I said if they really wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/933">TS</a>]

00:15:35   to and they use Mac Ruby as like their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/935">TS</a>]

00:15:38   transition strategy and they slowly by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/938">TS</a>]

00:15:39   steps chant you know develop the API [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/939">TS</a>]

00:15:43   until eventually you know many many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/943">TS</a>]

00:15:44   years down live people people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/944">TS</a>]

00:15:45   literally writing Java applications and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/945">TS</a>]

00:15:47   it's no longer bridge like they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/947">TS</a>]

00:15:48   transitioned away from all the memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/948">TS</a>]

00:15:50   dangerous uses and stuff through a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/950">TS</a>]

00:15:52   series of deprecations it could be done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/952">TS</a>]

00:15:54   but that doesn't mean bridges aren't bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/954">TS</a>]

00:15:56   that just means that they may have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/956">TS</a>]

00:15:58   advantages in terms of getting you from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/958">TS</a>]

00:15:59   point A to point B through a series of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/959">TS</a>]

00:16:02   steps but the I do not think they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/962">TS</a>]

00:16:04   they're good there are things hard about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/964">TS</a>]

00:16:07   clean breaks as well you could kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/967">TS</a>]

00:16:11   say that Objective C is not is not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/971">TS</a>]

00:16:13   bridge from C C++ but it was a nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/973">TS</a>]

00:16:15   transition because they share the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/975">TS</a>]

00:16:17   base language I don't know there's ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/977">TS</a>]

00:16:20   been a successful bridge stringent but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/980">TS</a>]

00:16:22   feel like it could be done but now I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/982">TS</a>]

00:16:23   not I'm not a fan of bridges as we'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/983">TS</a>]

00:16:26   get to more when we get to the main [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/986">TS</a>]

00:16:27   topic imma do a quick aside here if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/987">TS</a>]

00:16:30   think we have time yeah I'm Ireland [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/990">TS</a>]

00:16:32   stuff from back to work last week sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/992">TS</a>]

00:16:34   this is a strange aside in the middle of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/994">TS</a>]

00:16:37   show by programming languages but I want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/997">TS</a>]

00:16:38   to be timely because if I keep it around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/998">TS</a>]

00:16:40   for weeks it will make any sense so last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1000">TS</a>]

00:16:44   week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1004">TS</a>]

00:16:45   Rutland man who does the show back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1005">TS</a>]

00:16:47   work with you had a blog post about his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1007">TS</a>]

00:16:50   ongoing struggles for over the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1010">TS</a>]

00:16:52   project he's working on and for people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1012">TS</a>]

00:16:54   who don't know Merlin man is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1014">TS</a>]

00:16:55   Productivity expert if you want to put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1015">TS</a>]

00:16:57   that in quotes I'm sure he would hate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1017">TS</a>]

00:16:58   that description but I don't know how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1018">TS</a>]

00:17:00   else to encapsulate what he does but he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1020">TS</a>]

00:17:01   he writes and gives talks about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1021">TS</a>]

00:17:04   productivity and related topics and last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1024">TS</a>]

00:17:08   week he did this blog post that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1028">TS</a>]

00:17:10   explained the problems he was having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1030">TS</a>]

00:17:12   getting his current work project done to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1032">TS</a>]

00:17:14   do a book and you needed to show about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1034">TS</a>]

00:17:16   it and then after dark as well which are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1036">TS</a>]

00:17:18   in the show notes and he had the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1038">TS</a>]

00:17:21   preview page open for his show where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1041">TS</a>]

00:17:23   get the people listeners get to put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1043">TS</a>]

00:17:25   comments before the show airs and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1045">TS</a>]

00:17:26   you talked about the comments on the air [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1046">TS</a>]

00:17:28   and a couple of comments I didn't write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1048">TS</a>]

00:17:30   any comments but I went through the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1050">TS</a>]

00:17:31   comments before the show and I did click [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1051">TS</a>]

00:17:33   that little like button yeah on some of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1053">TS</a>]

00:17:35   the ones that I thought were good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1055">TS</a>]

00:17:36   mystery most of the ones most of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1056">TS</a>]

00:17:38   ones I liked or ones that were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1058">TS</a>]

00:17:41   challenging questions where they would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1061">TS</a>]

00:17:42   say the gist that most of them was hey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1062">TS</a>]

00:17:45   Merlin man your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1065">TS</a>]

00:17:46   you're this productivity expert but here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1066">TS</a>]

00:17:48   you are not able to get this book done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1068">TS</a>]

00:17:50   that's you know you're super late on and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1070">TS</a>]

00:17:52   you kind of seem like you're bailing out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1072">TS</a>]

00:17:53   on it how are we supposed to trust [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1073">TS</a>]

00:17:56   anything you say about productivity when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1076">TS</a>]

00:17:57   in your real life you can't obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1077">TS</a>]

00:17:59   can't be productive and there were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1079">TS</a>]

00:18:01   several people asking that that's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1081">TS</a>]

00:18:03   the obvious question about this whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1083">TS</a>]

00:18:05   thing and you talked about it a lot on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1085">TS</a>]

00:18:07   the show and the reason I click those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1087">TS</a>]

00:18:10   like buttons was not that I agreed with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1090">TS</a>]

00:18:13   the people who were saying it but it but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1093">TS</a>]

00:18:14   that I wanted him to confront those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1094">TS</a>]

00:18:16   points head-on you know because that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1096">TS</a>]

00:18:17   that's the the question that jumps right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1097">TS</a>]

00:18:19   out at you immediately about this whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1099">TS</a>]

00:18:21   thing and and he did that for the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1101">TS</a>]

00:18:24   part he gave you no answer the questions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1104">TS</a>]

00:18:27   head-on and gave answers that he thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1107">TS</a>]

00:18:30   people wanted to hear you know he wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1110">TS</a>]

00:18:32   shying away from it if anything he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1112">TS</a>]

00:18:33   trying to stay on topic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1113">TS</a>]

00:18:35   I wouldn't he wouldn't let you move on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1115">TS</a>]

00:18:38   to the next questions he want to feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1118">TS</a>]

00:18:39   like he addressed it entirely so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1119">TS</a>]

00:18:41   was good but the other reason I picked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1121">TS</a>]

00:18:43   those those questions is that I felt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1123">TS</a>]

00:18:46   like I knew what the answer was going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1126">TS</a>]

00:18:47   be like I wanted to hear him say you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1127">TS</a>]

00:18:48   know I felt like if someone had told me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1128">TS</a>]

00:18:50   defend Merlyn man I would have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1130">TS</a>]

00:18:52   vigorous defense for his his actions and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1132">TS</a>]

00:18:55   and what he'd done with the book and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1135">TS</a>]

00:18:56   everything I don't want to hear him say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1136">TS</a>]

00:18:58   that too right he got out most of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1138">TS</a>]

00:19:00   points but one of them that he missed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1140">TS</a>]

00:19:01   that I wanted to throw out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1141">TS</a>]

00:19:03   here's that but I would have sent if I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1143">TS</a>]

00:19:05   was in his shoes and someone said the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1145">TS</a>]

00:19:06   same thing to me here's what I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1146">TS</a>]

00:19:07   have said about that ah you know so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1147">TS</a>]

00:19:10   would have said that yeah the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1150">TS</a>]

00:19:11   expectation is that if you some guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1151">TS</a>]

00:19:13   writing a book about productivity is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1153">TS</a>]

00:19:15   going to be written by a Productivity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1155">TS</a>]

00:19:16   expert that's going to be like somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1156">TS</a>]

00:19:18   who's really good at being productive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1158">TS</a>]

00:19:19   right and that's what all those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1159">TS</a>]

00:19:22   questions were based on because people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1162">TS</a>]

00:19:23   feel cheated and duped or whatever when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1163">TS</a>]

00:19:25   they see the problems that he's having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1165">TS</a>]

00:19:26   in real life but what I would say to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1166">TS</a>]

00:19:29   that is that in reality a person writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1169">TS</a>]

00:19:31   a book about productivity is most likely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1171">TS</a>]

00:19:33   someone who struggle with productivity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1173">TS</a>]

00:19:35   himself and not just someone who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1175">TS</a>]

00:19:37   struggle because lots of people struggle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1177">TS</a>]

00:19:38   with productivity if you're writing a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1178">TS</a>]

00:19:39   book about productivity you're probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1179">TS</a>]

00:19:40   someone who struggle with productivity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1180">TS</a>]

00:19:41   and also someone's who's smart enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1181">TS</a>]

00:19:44   and self-aware enough to explore while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1184">TS</a>]

00:19:46   you're struggling with it and come up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1186">TS</a>]

00:19:48   with answers right that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1188">TS</a>]

00:19:49   combination you need you need someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1189">TS</a>]

00:19:50   who having a problem with it and someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1190">TS</a>]

00:19:52   who's really smart [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1192">TS</a>]

00:19:53   who's going to think about why am I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1193">TS</a>]

00:19:54   having a problem is what's the deal here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1194">TS</a>]

00:19:56   if you've never had a problem with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1196">TS</a>]

00:19:57   productivity and you're super productive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1197">TS</a>]

00:19:59   and everything you will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1199">TS</a>]

00:20:00   probably not have much deep insight into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1200">TS</a>]

00:20:01   what helps make people productive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1201">TS</a>]

00:20:03   because it would just be like I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1203">TS</a>]

00:20:05   know I just sit down I do work like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1205">TS</a>]

00:20:06   you're not gonna write a book about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1206">TS</a>]

00:20:07   Prague - because you have no idea how it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1207">TS</a>]

00:20:09   works you've never even given it any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1209">TS</a>]

00:20:10   thought right it's like you had an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1210">TS</a>]

00:20:12   interview with a Horace they do on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1212">TS</a>]

00:20:14   pipeline recently yeah and when he said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1214">TS</a>]

00:20:16   was like basically mistakes or how we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1216">TS</a>]

00:20:18   learn which is topic bit up we've talked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1218">TS</a>]

00:20:20   about on the show before and so what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1220">TS</a>]

00:20:22   Merlin's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1222">TS</a>]

00:20:23   experience do basic science Merlin is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1223">TS</a>]

00:20:25   still making mistakes which means that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1225">TS</a>]

00:20:27   Merlin is still learning like if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1227">TS</a>]

00:20:29   think you know everything about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1229">TS</a>]

00:20:30   productivity and you're just gonna make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1230">TS</a>]

00:20:31   pronouncements from the mountaintop you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1231">TS</a>]

00:20:33   basically stopped learning like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1233">TS</a>]

00:20:35   don't want to read that guy's book it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1235">TS</a>]

00:20:36   gonna be like I know everything there is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1236">TS</a>]

00:20:38   to know about productivity I'm going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1238">TS</a>]

00:20:39   lay it out for you and here it is right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1239">TS</a>]

00:20:40   because you think you've got it figured [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1240">TS</a>]

00:20:42   all all figured out right it's kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1242">TS</a>]

00:20:45   similar to the stereotype you hear that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1245">TS</a>]

00:20:46   like you know psychology majors in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1246">TS</a>]

00:20:48   school are the people most likely to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1248">TS</a>]

00:20:49   have psychological problems that that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1249">TS</a>]

00:20:51   just the way the world works if you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1251">TS</a>]

00:20:52   interested in the topic or have any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1252">TS</a>]

00:20:55   insight into topics probably something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1255">TS</a>]

00:20:57   you've dealt with yourself and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1257">TS</a>]

00:20:58   struggle with and it's not just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1258">TS</a>]

00:20:59   struggling I guess that you have to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1259">TS</a>]

00:21:00   someone who has these problems and also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1260">TS</a>]

00:21:03   someone who's super smart and self-aware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1263">TS</a>]

00:21:04   that's how all you know great books and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1264">TS</a>]

00:21:06   investigations into anything that has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1266">TS</a>]

00:21:08   anything to do with like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1268">TS</a>]

00:21:11   personality wise or psychological things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1271">TS</a>]

00:21:13   or any sort of you know human type of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1273">TS</a>]

00:21:17   endeavor not just like writing about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1277">TS</a>]

00:21:19   math or something right right the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1279">TS</a>]

00:21:20   who have who have struggled with it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1280">TS</a>]

00:21:22   thought about it and come up with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1282">TS</a>]

00:21:23   answers and who continue to do so who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1283">TS</a>]

00:21:25   have the most insights and I wish she'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1285">TS</a>]

00:21:27   made that point in the showing since he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1287">TS</a>]

00:21:28   didn't I'm making that point in the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1288">TS</a>]

00:21:30   so for all the people who are thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1290">TS</a>]

00:21:31   they don't want to read a Productivity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1291">TS</a>]

00:21:33   book by someone who can't finish a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1293">TS</a>]

00:21:34   that's exactly the one you do want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1294">TS</a>]

00:21:36   read because when it's done you will see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1296">TS</a>]

00:21:39   that it has the you know the scars of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1299">TS</a>]

00:21:41   experience have been built into that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1301">TS</a>]

00:21:44   book that's a great point I mean I in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1304">TS</a>]

00:21:47   way you almost feel like a book like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1307">TS</a>]

00:21:50   this I don't know maybe maybe this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1310">TS</a>]

00:21:52   sounds weird but you almost want it to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1312">TS</a>]

00:21:54   be hard you know what I'm saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1314">TS</a>]

00:21:58   yeah I mean this is like I said if it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1318">TS</a>]

00:22:01   easy if it's some dude who's like hasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1321">TS</a>]

00:22:02   thought about productivity in ten years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1322">TS</a>]

00:22:04   because he's been given the same talk at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1324">TS</a>]

00:22:06   companies for ten years and he thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1326">TS</a>]

00:22:07   he figured it out ten years ago and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1327">TS</a>]

00:22:09   wrote in a little formula and he got a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1329">TS</a>]

00:22:10   best-selling book and hasn't given a day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1330">TS</a>]

00:22:12   of thought since then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1332">TS</a>]

00:22:13   that's not useful you know you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1333">TS</a>]

00:22:15   still be doing it you have to still be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1335">TS</a>]

00:22:16   thinking about it to you know to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1336">TS</a>]

00:22:19   the insights to share with people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1339">TS</a>]

00:22:20   because these these things change you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1340">TS</a>]

00:22:22   know the environment changes technology [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1342">TS</a>]

00:22:24   changes all of our lives change you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1344">TS</a>]

00:22:26   you come to different points in your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1346">TS</a>]

00:22:27   life you can you know relate to things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1347">TS</a>]

00:22:29   differently when you're you know older [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1349">TS</a>]

00:22:30   and a father than when you're younger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1350">TS</a>]

00:22:31   and stuff you have to always keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1351">TS</a>]

00:22:32   learning it always keep making mistakes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1352">TS</a>]

00:22:38   let's make mistakes they'll be the name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1358">TS</a>]

00:22:40   for a show yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1360">TS</a>]

00:22:41   if only somebody would do that yeah all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1361">TS</a>]

00:22:46   right are you ready for main topic yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1366">TS</a>]

00:22:48   - thirty minutes yeah this is about what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1368">TS</a>]

00:22:51   we do well let's do our first well thank [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1371">TS</a>]

00:22:52   our first sponsor it's the into its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1372">TS</a>]

00:22:54   small business blog if you're in a small [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1374">TS</a>]

00:22:55   or medium size business not a large one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1375">TS</a>]

00:22:57   it's probably not for you because they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1377">TS</a>]

00:22:59   talk about things like starting a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1379">TS</a>]

00:23:02   business running a business social media [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1382">TS</a>]

00:23:04   integrating it with marketing and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1384">TS</a>]

00:23:06   kind of thing so it really does appealed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1386">TS</a>]

00:23:09   I think the people who run the small in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1389">TS</a>]

00:23:11   the medium-sized businesses well you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1391">TS</a>]

00:23:13   go there you can go to blog intuit calm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1393">TS</a>]

00:23:16   you can read articles about this they do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1396">TS</a>]

00:23:17   interviews with you know up-and-coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1397">TS</a>]

00:23:19   business leaders they even interviewed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1399">TS</a>]

00:23:21   me John did you read that one I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1401">TS</a>]

00:23:24   think I did they interviewed me there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1404">TS</a>]

00:23:26   and they do that they entered they do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1406">TS</a>]

00:23:27   interviews and now they've gone mobile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1407">TS</a>]

00:23:29   so there is an Intuit small business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1409">TS</a>]

00:23:31   blog iOS app which is very handy of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1411">TS</a>]

00:23:35   course it works for your iPhone your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1415">TS</a>]

00:23:36   iPod Touch if you're like John siracusa [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1416">TS</a>]

00:23:39   it works for an iPad and you can read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1419">TS</a>]

00:23:41   the blog articles you can do full-text [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1421">TS</a>]

00:23:43   searches you could do tons of stuff and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1423">TS</a>]

00:23:45   it's a brand new app they really want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1425">TS</a>]

00:23:46   you to go out there and kick the tires [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1426">TS</a>]

00:23:47   on this so you can download that just by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1427">TS</a>]

00:23:50   searching for Intuit blog in the iTunes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1430">TS</a>]

00:23:52   App Store or by going to blogged on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1432">TS</a>]

00:23:53   Intuit calm it's well worth your time to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1433">TS</a>]

00:23:56   check this out a lot of really valuable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1436">TS</a>]

00:23:58   articles and they have told me that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1438">TS</a>]

00:24:01   are coming in with an Android version of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1441">TS</a>]

00:24:02   the app as well so go check that out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1442">TS</a>]

00:24:04   thanks to them very much for making this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1444">TS</a>]

00:24:07   show possible now on to the topic the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1447">TS</a>]

00:24:11   real main topic the Royal Wedding is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1451">TS</a>]

00:24:15   that's not there is that thrill I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1455">TS</a>]

00:24:17   that'd be great thanks to Robert Hoglund [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1457">TS</a>]

00:24:20   in the chat room for that idea no that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1460">TS</a>]

00:24:22   is not the main topic I was I was going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1462">TS</a>]

00:24:24   to say I'm probably pretty well prepared [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1464">TS</a>]

00:24:25   for that I was what I did watch some of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1465">TS</a>]

00:24:27   it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1467">TS</a>]

00:24:27   sorry to disappoint you guys that have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1467">TS</a>]

00:24:29   such a dim awareness that this thing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1469">TS</a>]

00:24:31   even taking place yeah but I would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1471">TS</a>]

00:24:33   nothing to say about it believe it or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1473">TS</a>]

00:24:34   not today believe it or not it's sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1474">TS</a>]

00:24:38   a continuation of the the Copeland 2010 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1478">TS</a>]

00:24:41   show because at the end of that show we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1481">TS</a>]

00:24:43   started to talk a little bit about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1483">TS</a>]

00:24:44   programming languages and I thought that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1484">TS</a>]

00:24:46   was a topic that was worth the whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1486">TS</a>]

00:24:50   show on its own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1490">TS</a>]

00:24:51   some people complain last time that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1491">TS</a>]

00:24:52   talking about programming stuff was too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1492">TS</a>]

00:24:54   esoteric and like not in character for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1494">TS</a>]

00:24:56   the show yeah but just just so happens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1496">TS</a>]

00:25:00   that we picked less techy topics to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1500">TS</a>]

00:25:01   begin with it's definitely in character [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1501">TS</a>]

00:25:03   for me it is you're you are a programmer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1503">TS</a>]

00:25:05   that's what he does what I do for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1505">TS</a>]

00:25:07   living so I don't I don't feel like it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1507">TS</a>]

00:25:08   out of character so that this is gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1508">TS</a>]

00:25:09   be part of the things that we talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1509">TS</a>]

00:25:11   on the show is programming language type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1511">TS</a>]

00:25:13   stuffing if you're not a developer and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1513">TS</a>]

00:25:14   don't care about programming languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1514">TS</a>]

00:25:16   then maybe you can skip this week maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1516">TS</a>]

00:25:18   I still think it would be interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1518">TS</a>]

00:25:19   yeah but this is definitely what I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1519">TS</a>]

00:25:22   saying is this is definitely not out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1522">TS</a>]

00:25:23   character for this for the show I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1523">TS</a>]

00:25:25   think alright I don't I don't think so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1525">TS</a>]

00:25:28   not at all as I said in the past show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1528">TS</a>]

00:25:30   this is a topic that I wanted to write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1530">TS</a>]

00:25:32   about for a long time but I could just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1532">TS</a>]

00:25:33   never get to it mostly because it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1533">TS</a>]

00:25:35   kind of out of character for what I tend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1535">TS</a>]

00:25:37   to write on ARS technica and elsewhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1537">TS</a>]

00:25:39   as I don't tend to write about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1539">TS</a>]

00:25:40   programming language that's more of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1540">TS</a>]

00:25:41   thing you expect to see on either a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1541">TS</a>]

00:25:43   personal developer blog which I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1543">TS</a>]

00:25:46   really have one of or a developer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1546">TS</a>]

00:25:49   oriented site which are static and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1549">TS</a>]

00:25:50   Macworld and so on or not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1550">TS</a>]

00:25:52   so I don't get to write about it but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1552">TS</a>]

00:25:53   would like to talk about it um so here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1553">TS</a>]

00:25:57   we go so in a past show talked a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1557">TS</a>]

00:26:00   bit about how geeks tend to like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1560">TS</a>]

00:26:02   meritocracy I think it was in the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1562">TS</a>]

00:26:03   where I was talking about how they felt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1563">TS</a>]

00:26:05   it was unfair that Windows 1 the desktop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1565">TS</a>]

00:26:07   because it wasn't and undeserved victory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1567">TS</a>]

00:26:09   because Mac operating system was better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1569">TS</a>]

00:26:11   it was the show where we psychoanalyze [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1571">TS</a>]

00:26:13   gruber I forgot what episode that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1573">TS</a>]

00:26:16   but that tends to be the case the geeks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1576">TS</a>]

00:26:19   think that the technically superior [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1579">TS</a>]

00:26:21   solution should win and and as we know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1581">TS</a>]

00:26:24   it often doesn't I know in programming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1584">TS</a>]

00:26:26   languages there are a weird case because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1586">TS</a>]

00:26:29   there's something that only geeks care [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1589">TS</a>]

00:26:32   about but programming languages almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1592">TS</a>]

00:26:34   never become popular based on their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1594">TS</a>]

00:26:35   merits because there are so many more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1595">TS</a>]

00:26:37   important things than that so it's kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1597">TS</a>]

00:26:40   of a weird situation where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1600">TS</a>]

00:26:41   this thing that only geeks care about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1601">TS</a>]

00:26:43   it's never a meritocracy and that's why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1603">TS</a>]

00:26:46   it's a source of lots that's one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1606">TS</a>]

00:26:48   many reasons why it's a source of lots [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1608">TS</a>]

00:26:49   of tension in the geek community these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1609">TS</a>]

00:26:51   arguments about which language is better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1611">TS</a>]

00:26:54   than another and so on and so forth so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1614">TS</a>]

00:26:57   here are some of the more important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1617">TS</a>]

00:26:58   things that can make a programming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1618">TS</a>]

00:26:59   language popular so when you have a you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1619">TS</a>]

00:27:03   know what platform is this language the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1623">TS</a>]

00:27:06   official language of that's a big thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1626">TS</a>]

00:27:09   that can help programming language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1629">TS</a>]

00:27:10   obviously objective-c would probably be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1630">TS</a>]

00:27:12   nowhere if it wasn't the official [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1632">TS</a>]

00:27:14   language of the Mac and iOS platforms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1634">TS</a>]

00:27:16   the only reason a lot of people have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1636">TS</a>]

00:27:18   especially but in iOS the only reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1638">TS</a>]

00:27:20   anyone has learned objective-c is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1640">TS</a>]

00:27:21   because this wouldn't need to do if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1641">TS</a>]

00:27:23   want to write an iPhone app can use this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1643">TS</a>]

00:27:28   language in more than one place is kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1648">TS</a>]

00:27:29   of the opposite like if I learn this can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1649">TS</a>]

00:27:31   I only write for iOS or can I use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1651">TS</a>]

00:27:33   someplace else and this is part of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1653">TS</a>]

00:27:35   what's made C and C++ ridiculously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1655">TS</a>]

00:27:38   popular in the old days but so you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1658">TS</a>]

00:27:39   write C tons of places like it seemed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1659">TS</a>]

00:27:42   like it at one point every single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1662">TS</a>]

00:27:43   platform you see as it's you know native [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1663">TS</a>]

00:27:45   systems programming language and C++ [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1665">TS</a>]

00:27:47   differently and then later Java was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1667">TS</a>]

00:27:48   oh you learned Java but you can use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1668">TS</a>]

00:27:50   everywhere you can use it on all the web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1670">TS</a>]

00:27:51   development and server side code and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1671">TS</a>]

00:27:53   maybe client-side code to knows but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1673">TS</a>]

00:27:57   weren't just learning a language for one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1677">TS</a>]

00:27:58   particular thing another thing can help [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1678">TS</a>]

00:28:00   languages like can I create a new kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1680">TS</a>]

00:28:03   of application with this language so if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1683">TS</a>]

00:28:06   I learn this language that I never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1686">TS</a>]

00:28:07   learned before can I write an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1687">TS</a>]

00:28:09   application that I can't write in any of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1689">TS</a>]

00:28:11   the languages that I know now or can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1691">TS</a>]

00:28:14   write easily a good example is that like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1694">TS</a>]

00:28:16   CGI at the dawn of the web you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1696">TS</a>]

00:28:19   write a CGI program and see and people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1699">TS</a>]

00:28:21   did but it was so clearly not not the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1701">TS</a>]

00:28:24   thing to do so that was a lot of what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1704">TS</a>]

00:28:25   gave pearls popularity and they're gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1705">TS</a>]

00:28:27   say like you know CGI web it's great but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1707">TS</a>]

00:28:29   seriously don't write a C program to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1709">TS</a>]

00:28:31   parse HTTP headers and pillow stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1711">TS</a>]

00:28:34   here's this other language and it does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1714">TS</a>]

00:28:35   that stuff much easier and look how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1715">TS</a>]

00:28:36   short this is I can give you a nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1716">TS</a>]

00:28:37   little CGI in like a little page of code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1717">TS</a>]

00:28:40   and hey you don't need to compile it uh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1720">TS</a>]

00:28:42   and that was a new kind of application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1722">TS</a>]

00:28:44   that you couldn't write with you know a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1724">TS</a>]

00:28:46   compiled thing or C or C both of us or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1726">TS</a>]

00:28:48   was it was so cumbersome that you didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1728">TS</a>]

00:28:51   want to basically another thing that can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1731">TS</a>]

00:28:53   help languages it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1733">TS</a>]

00:28:55   can I try this hot new thing if I learn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1735">TS</a>]

00:28:57   this language rails is a great example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1737">TS</a>]

00:28:59   of that rails it was hot and they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1739">TS</a>]

00:29:01   like well I really want to try this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1741">TS</a>]

00:29:02   Rails thing like I know how to write web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1742">TS</a>]

00:29:04   apps I'm writing about for years but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1744">TS</a>]

00:29:05   this looks like a cool new way to write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1745">TS</a>]

00:29:06   web apps and I guess to try this rails [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1746">TS</a>]

00:29:09   things I haven't learned Ruby well okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1749">TS</a>]

00:29:10   I'll do that it was like you know call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1750">TS</a>]

00:29:13   it a fad but it's not that's kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1753">TS</a>]

00:29:15   route but you get the idea and the final [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1755">TS</a>]

00:29:20   thing I have my list here is is this one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1760">TS</a>]

00:29:22   of only a few possible choices for doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1762">TS</a>]

00:29:24   this thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1764">TS</a>]

00:29:25   javascript is a good example of this if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1765">TS</a>]

00:29:27   you want to write client-side web you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1767">TS</a>]

00:29:30   know code for web applications [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1770">TS</a>]

00:29:32   your choices are basically JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1772">TS</a>]

00:29:35   maybe Java for applets and maybe flash I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1775">TS</a>]

00:29:38   guess but flash requires plugins and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1778">TS</a>]

00:29:40   Java is this big bloated thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1780">TS</a>]

00:29:42   nobody really like that's why no those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1782">TS</a>]

00:29:43   took off so your choices are really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1783">TS</a>]

00:29:45   limited if you want to write client-side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1785">TS</a>]

00:29:47   web code you're basically be writing in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1787">TS</a>]

00:29:49   JavaScript write or use or using a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1789">TS</a>]

00:29:51   framework like CoffeeScript that turns [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1791">TS</a>]

00:29:53   it into JavaScript for you we'll talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1793">TS</a>]

00:29:55   about that okay so so the result is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1795">TS</a>]

00:29:58   since most programming languages are not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1798">TS</a>]

00:30:00   picked based on their merit so picked on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1800">TS</a>]

00:30:02   these other tons much more important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1802">TS</a>]

00:30:04   things the result of this is in my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1804">TS</a>]

00:30:06   opinion most programming languages stink [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1806">TS</a>]

00:30:07   or in the best case they eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1807">TS</a>]

00:30:10   stink that's the best case the worst [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1810">TS</a>]

00:30:12   that the normal case is that they stink [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1812">TS</a>]

00:30:13   from day one but you have to use them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1813">TS</a>]

00:30:15   for one of those other reasons that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1815">TS</a>]

00:30:17   much more important and which is fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1817">TS</a>]

00:30:19   it's not saying you're miserable doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1819">TS</a>]

00:30:20   it over but the bottom line is that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1820">TS</a>]

00:30:21   language itself stinks and in the best [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1821">TS</a>]

00:30:23   case the day you start using a language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1823">TS</a>]

00:30:25   it's actually awesome you really like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1825">TS</a>]

00:30:26   but then ten years down the line [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1826">TS</a>]

00:30:29   language advancement has moved on you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1829">TS</a>]

00:30:31   stuck using someone for one of those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1831">TS</a>]

00:30:32   other reasons so that eventually this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1832">TS</a>]

00:30:34   language comes to stink relative to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1834">TS</a>]

00:30:35   everything else it's kind of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1835">TS</a>]

00:30:38   programming language the lifetime of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1838">TS</a>]

00:30:40   programming language gets tied to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1840">TS</a>]

00:30:41   API or platform lifetime right so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1841">TS</a>]

00:30:46   know the API or the platform will live [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1846">TS</a>]

00:30:50   for just decades sometimes but during [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1850">TS</a>]

00:30:52   that time the state of the art in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1852">TS</a>]

00:30:54   languages it just has that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1854">TS</a>]

00:30:55   advanced way past that and even just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1855">TS</a>]

00:30:57   during the first few years it you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1857">TS</a>]

00:30:59   it doesn't ache long for people to see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1859">TS</a>]

00:31:00   what it is about the language they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1860">TS</a>]

00:31:02   currently using it stinks when they look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1862">TS</a>]

00:31:04   off to the side to see you know wow look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1864">TS</a>]

00:31:06   at that cool thing they're doing over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1866">TS</a>]

00:31:07   there well I can't use that because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1867">TS</a>]

00:31:08   got a ride iOS applications that use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1868">TS</a>]

00:31:10   objective-c or well I can't use that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1870">TS</a>]

00:31:11   because I'm writing web applications and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1871">TS</a>]

00:31:13   I gotta use JavaScript and numerous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1873">TS</a>]

00:31:17   cases sometimes a language can suck for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1877">TS</a>]

00:31:18   years and years even before it becomes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1878">TS</a>]

00:31:20   popular so the javascript is a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1880">TS</a>]

00:31:22   example this JavaScript you know was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1882">TS</a>]

00:31:24   introduced in that scape whatever was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1884">TS</a>]

00:31:25   1.0 or ages ago javascript was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1885">TS</a>]

00:31:27   introduced and it just sat there sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1887">TS</a>]

00:31:31   unloved for years because I got a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1891">TS</a>]

00:31:33   JavaScript I guess you can do some stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1893">TS</a>]

00:31:35   to like you know validate forms or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1895">TS</a>]

00:31:37   something but whatever right and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1897">TS</a>]

00:31:39   wasn't and it wasn't that great back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1899">TS</a>]

00:31:42   then and then years and years later you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1902">TS</a>]

00:31:44   know with better dom support and CSS and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1904">TS</a>]

00:31:46   faster CPUs and better browsers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1906">TS</a>]

00:31:48   stuff suddenly javascript is hot it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1908">TS</a>]

00:31:50   like well now hey you know we've got we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1910">TS</a>]

00:31:52   with all these advances in web engine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1912">TS</a>]

00:31:53   technology and better CPUs and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1913">TS</a>]

00:31:56   all these other things we can do with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1916">TS</a>]

00:31:57   dynamic HTML whatever buzzword doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1917">TS</a>]

00:31:59   bottom line is suddenly javascript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1919">TS</a>]

00:32:01   became interesting but it still sucks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1921">TS</a>]

00:32:03   this was still the same crappy language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1923">TS</a>]

00:32:05   it was 50 years ago not 50 seems like 50 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1925">TS</a>]

00:32:07   years ago Internet time is still the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1927">TS</a>]

00:32:09   same credi language but now suddenly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1929">TS</a>]

00:32:10   it's popular so it didn't even get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1930">TS</a>]

00:32:12   chance to be it was never good right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1932">TS</a>]

00:32:14   and then it sat there for years doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1934">TS</a>]

00:32:16   nothing until people even noticed it uh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1936">TS</a>]

00:32:18   but now you know people need to get work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1938">TS</a>]

00:32:20   done like they need to you need to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1940">TS</a>]

00:32:23   JavaScript so they want to transform the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1943">TS</a>]

00:32:25   language into something that sucks less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1945">TS</a>]

00:32:26   and this happened even before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1946">TS</a>]

00:32:28   CoffeeScript or to talk about in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1948">TS</a>]

00:32:29   second this happened you know as soon as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1949">TS</a>]

00:32:31   people started having to use JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1951">TS</a>]

00:32:33   it's all right well I got to write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1953">TS</a>]

00:32:35   JavaScript and dhtml is cool and I can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1955">TS</a>]

00:32:37   do all these cool transformations and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1957">TS</a>]

00:32:38   all most dynamic stuff or whatever but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1958">TS</a>]

00:32:39   you know what I would like I would like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1959">TS</a>]

00:32:41   keep it work like the language that I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1961">TS</a>]

00:32:42   used to so I would like if it had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1962">TS</a>]

00:32:44   class-based inheritance instead of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1964">TS</a>]

00:32:45   prototype based inheritance and I'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1965">TS</a>]

00:32:47   really like a nice way to define classes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1967">TS</a>]

00:32:48   and methods and I really like to be able [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1968">TS</a>]

00:32:50   to subclass stuff and I really like to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1970">TS</a>]

00:32:52   be able to define properties and do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1972">TS</a>]

00:32:54   things without polluting the global [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1974">TS</a>]

00:32:55   namespace with variables and all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1975">TS</a>]

00:32:57   all the tricks that would learn like so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1977">TS</a>]

00:32:59   that they very quickly started building [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1979">TS</a>]

00:33:00   this other language on top of JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1980">TS</a>]

00:33:01   and they went by all sorts of different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1981">TS</a>]

00:33:04   names and different API s and everyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1984">TS</a>]

00:33:05   who made any sort of library like use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1985">TS</a>]

00:33:07   the library validating form so we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1987">TS</a>]

00:33:08   also going to define our own class an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1988">TS</a>]

00:33:09   object system and here's how you define [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1989">TS</a>]

00:33:11   a class in our system and use that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1991">TS</a>]

00:33:12   define an object and here's how you doin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1992">TS</a>]

00:33:13   heritance right and then you know seven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1993">TS</a>]

00:33:15   different people did that so if you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1995">TS</a>]

00:33:16   using prototype they had one system and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1996">TS</a>]

00:33:17   you know something else but but the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/1997">TS</a>]

00:33:21   they did do was add the API [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2001">TS</a>]

00:33:22   people actually wanted to use because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2002">TS</a>]

00:33:23   the Dom API the native Dom API who the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2003">TS</a>]

00:33:25   w3c to find that or whoever define that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2005">TS</a>]

00:33:27   it stinks it was just a huge verbose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2007">TS</a>]

00:33:29   thing that nobody ever wanted to type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2009">TS</a>]

00:33:31   and it was just you know inscrutable and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2011">TS</a>]

00:33:33   had no convenience functions and it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2013">TS</a>]

00:33:35   just just bad so that you know people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2015">TS</a>]

00:33:38   were wrapping the Dom ten different ways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2018">TS</a>]

00:33:40   to Sunday you know like listen we know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2020">TS</a>]

00:33:42   you're never going to use the Dom API [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2022">TS</a>]

00:33:43   but here's this nice little wrapper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2023">TS</a>]

00:33:44   function to give that a try and jQuery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2024">TS</a>]

00:33:47   is the big one they're like they did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2027">TS</a>]

00:33:49   their own objects just something they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2029">TS</a>]

00:33:50   did all solve the old stuff but in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2030">TS</a>]

00:33:51   service of saying don't write to the Dom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2031">TS</a>]

00:33:53   write to jQuery and we're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2033">TS</a>]

00:33:55   define a really convenient API that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2035">TS</a>]

00:33:57   can use that it looks like magic and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2037">TS</a>]

00:33:59   now we're at the point today where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2039">TS</a>]

00:34:00   people know jQuery but they don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2040">TS</a>]

00:34:02   JavaScript right the someone did a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2042">TS</a>]

00:34:04   presentation about that I think was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2044">TS</a>]

00:34:05   a jQuery problem or something I googled [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2045">TS</a>]

00:34:07   for it for a while and I couldn't find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2047">TS</a>]

00:34:08   it but it's basically that you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2048">TS</a>]

00:34:09   raising your breed of programmers who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2049">TS</a>]

00:34:12   thinks that jQuery is what their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2052">TS</a>]

00:34:14   programming and have no idea this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2054">TS</a>]

00:34:16   this language into their called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2056">TS</a>]

00:34:17   JavaScript that has its own rules and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2057">TS</a>]

00:34:18   works in its own way now that's like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2058">TS</a>]

00:34:20   JavaScript is like the assembly code a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2060">TS</a>]

00:34:22   CoffeeScript is another example take me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2062">TS</a>]

00:34:25   to even farther and what's that other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2065">TS</a>]

00:34:26   one that the cappuccino guys do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2066">TS</a>]

00:34:27   objective J I think it's called where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2067">TS</a>]

00:34:30   they're saying look the language is so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2070">TS</a>]

00:34:32   irredeemably bad you're just gonna type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2072">TS</a>]

00:34:34   text right we're gonna parse with our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2074">TS</a>]

00:34:37   own little parser written in javascript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2077">TS</a>]

00:34:38   turn into JavaScript for you and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2078">TS</a>]

00:34:40   execute that so that basically defining [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2080">TS</a>]

00:34:42   an entirely different language not just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2082">TS</a>]

00:34:44   a new API not just a wrapper for other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2084">TS</a>]

00:34:46   things but an entirely new language so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2086">TS</a>]

00:34:48   bad is the underlying language is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2088">TS</a>]

00:34:49   don't even type in that language type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2089">TS</a>]

00:34:52   essentially a big honking string and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2092">TS</a>]

00:34:54   will we will take your big honkin string [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2094">TS</a>]

00:34:56   and turn it into something all right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2096">TS</a>]

00:35:00   that gets at all that talks about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2100">TS</a>]

00:35:02   bridges and everything like we know when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2102">TS</a>]

00:35:04   you're stepping through the debugger and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2104">TS</a>]

00:35:05   you know Firebug or whatever WebKit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2105">TS</a>]

00:35:07   JavaScript debugger that's a JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2107">TS</a>]

00:35:09   debugger that's not a coffee script [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2109">TS</a>]

00:35:10   debugger it's not a jQuery de barro god [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2110">TS</a>]

00:35:11   forbid you ever step into a jQuery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2111">TS</a>]

00:35:13   function you'll know there be dragons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2113">TS</a>]

00:35:15   you do not want to be into that code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2115">TS</a>]

00:35:16   right if you have some sort of problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2116">TS</a>]

00:35:18   in the middle of jQuery you know even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2118">TS</a>]

00:35:20   when it's not minima minified or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2120">TS</a>]

00:35:21   anything like that they just highlight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2121">TS</a>]

00:35:23   the problems of bridges and stop and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2123">TS</a>]

00:35:25   CoffeeScript and objective J similar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2125">TS</a>]

00:35:27   type things like you know you're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2127">TS</a>]

00:35:28   going to get Apple or Google or whoever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2128">TS</a>]

00:35:30   to build a coffee script debugger into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2130">TS</a>]

00:35:32   into their browser unless you really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2132">TS</a>]

00:35:35   take over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2135">TS</a>]

00:35:36   the world with your new language that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2136">TS</a>]

00:35:37   you made up that eventually compiles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2137">TS</a>]

00:35:38   into JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2138">TS</a>]

00:35:40   Google is even worse but they do Java [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2140">TS</a>]

00:35:42   that compiles into JavaScript I don't I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2142">TS</a>]

00:35:44   mean think about how they do bug that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2144">TS</a>]

00:35:46   but that's that's Google's problem so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2146">TS</a>]

00:35:51   the moral of story is that every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2151">TS</a>]

00:35:54   existing popular language has something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2154">TS</a>]

00:35:56   terrible about it or many make things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2156">TS</a>]

00:35:58   terrible about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2158">TS</a>]

00:35:59   and it's usually really easy for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2159">TS</a>]

00:36:02   developers to see what's wrong with this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2162">TS</a>]

00:36:03   language not not the API is not what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2163">TS</a>]

00:36:05   can do with it you know people like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2165">TS</a>]

00:36:06   these things but just like the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2166">TS</a>]

00:36:08   isolate the language itself and say is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2168">TS</a>]

00:36:10   there anything bad about the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2170">TS</a>]

00:36:12   taken in isolation and there always is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2172">TS</a>]

00:36:15   and it seems like as these languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2175">TS</a>]

00:36:18   have stagnated and been tied to these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2178">TS</a>]

00:36:19   platforms and api's for years and years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2179">TS</a>]

00:36:21   we've you know made little advances [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2181">TS</a>]

00:36:24   along the side lines and everything and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2184">TS</a>]

00:36:25   you know academic circles research [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2185">TS</a>]

00:36:28   circles but even just trying things out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2188">TS</a>]

00:36:29   for real with you know little niche [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2189">TS</a>]

00:36:31   languages and stuff like that we sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2191">TS</a>]

00:36:33   collectively decided on what is good and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2193">TS</a>]

00:36:36   then when we collectively decide on what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2196">TS</a>]

00:36:38   is good we can look at the language and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2198">TS</a>]

00:36:39   say well this thing doesn't have this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2199">TS</a>]

00:36:40   good thing which we've all pretty much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2200">TS</a>]

00:36:41   agreed takes a long time to agree on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2201">TS</a>]

00:36:43   this takes you know sometimes years and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2203">TS</a>]

00:36:44   years forever to agree that something is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2204">TS</a>]

00:36:45   good but eventually most people agree so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2205">TS</a>]

00:36:47   I have a little list of things that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2207">TS</a>]

00:36:49   think that collectively programmers have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2209">TS</a>]

00:36:51   agreed are good things plus or minus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2211">TS</a>]

00:36:54   applicability obviously everything I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2214">TS</a>]

00:36:56   list someone is going to say well if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2216">TS</a>]

00:36:57   you're writing a device driver all that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2217">TS</a>]

00:36:58   stinks yeah obviously you pick the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2218">TS</a>]

00:37:01   language appropriate for a context so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2221">TS</a>]

00:37:02   I'm speaking mostly of the highest of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2222">TS</a>]

00:37:05   the high levels because languages only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2225">TS</a>]

00:37:06   get higher level over time not lower [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2226">TS</a>]

00:37:07   level so the lower level languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2227">TS</a>]

00:37:08   retain their roles in the levels of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2228">TS</a>]

00:37:11   distraction where they work best but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2231">TS</a>]

00:37:13   top of the stack the highest level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2233">TS</a>]

00:37:15   languages that people most commonly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2235">TS</a>]

00:37:16   write and just keep getting higher level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2236">TS</a>]

00:37:18   and that's the place where the actions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2238">TS</a>]

00:37:19   that's the place where the most language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2239">TS</a>]

00:37:21   advancement happens so some things we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2241">TS</a>]

00:37:24   decided to good the Commuter decided [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2244">TS</a>]

00:37:25   memory management is good because even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2245">TS</a>]

00:37:27   though you know at the lower levels yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2247">TS</a>]

00:37:29   you do need to management you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2249">TS</a>]

00:37:30   someone's got a managed memory manually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2250">TS</a>]

00:37:32   underneath there someone's got to do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2252">TS</a>]

00:37:34   even if you're just writing the VM for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2254">TS</a>]

00:37:35   your JavaScript engine so I want us to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2255">TS</a>]

00:37:36   deal with it but if you're writing an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2256">TS</a>]

00:37:38   application you don't want to deal with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2258">TS</a>]

00:37:39   that so if you have some language that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2259">TS</a>]

00:37:41   doesn't have memory management it starts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2261">TS</a>]

00:37:44   to look a little bit creaky especially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2264">TS</a>]

00:37:46   if you're writing like an application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2266">TS</a>]

00:37:47   where it's like dude clicks the button [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2267">TS</a>]

00:37:48   and then this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2268">TS</a>]

00:37:49   happens you know I don't have to manage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2269">TS</a>]

00:37:51   memory to connect the dude clicks the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2271">TS</a>]

00:37:53   button and then something happens thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2273">TS</a>]

00:37:54   I'm not I'm not writing vice drivers I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2274">TS</a>]

00:37:56   not writing a VM for a language right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2276">TS</a>]

00:37:59   one of the deal Denari management native [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2279">TS</a>]

00:38:01   strings pretty much everyone has agreed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2281">TS</a>]

00:38:02   that native strings are a good thing you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2282">TS</a>]

00:38:04   know we don't want to add strings to see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2284">TS</a>]

00:38:06   this is just a byte array and blah blah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2286">TS</a>]

00:38:07   native unicode strings at this point if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2287">TS</a>]

00:38:10   you don't iran who doesn't have native [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2290">TS</a>]

00:38:11   you don't screen strings some poor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2291">TS</a>]

00:38:13   suckers got to make a library that does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2293">TS</a>]

00:38:14   and then it's just a big hairy mess and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2294">TS</a>]

00:38:16   you have two different competing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2296">TS</a>]

00:38:17   libraries and you get you know what were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2297">TS</a>]

00:38:20   they called in MFC the HIPAA yeah yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2300">TS</a>]

00:38:22   why character strings and all sorts of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2302">TS</a>]

00:38:24   you know it's just a big mess native [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2304">TS</a>]

00:38:26   native unicode strings have to be in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2306">TS</a>]

00:38:28   language because they're so darn useful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2308">TS</a>]

00:38:29   i think we that most people have agreed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2309">TS</a>]

00:38:32   at this point for high level languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2312">TS</a>]

00:38:34   native regular expressions are a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2314">TS</a>]

00:38:37   thing if not native regulus versions and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2317">TS</a>]

00:38:40   at least a library that implements the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2320">TS</a>]

00:38:41   native ones are nicer because then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2321">TS</a>]

00:38:42   don't have to take your regular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2322">TS</a>]

00:38:43   expressions and say oh I don't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2323">TS</a>]

00:38:44   regular expressions I'm gonna you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2324">TS</a>]

00:38:46   they're in strings now it's just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2326">TS</a>]

00:38:47   string constant JavaScript does that to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2327">TS</a>]

00:38:49   an extent but it's nice to have native [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2329">TS</a>]

00:38:52   regular expressions with the native [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2332">TS</a>]

00:38:53   syntax because they're so darn useful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2333">TS</a>]

00:38:55   and so common I think you don't have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2335">TS</a>]

00:38:57   be calling through the library functions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2337">TS</a>]

00:38:58   for them and you certainly don't want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2338">TS</a>]

00:38:59   have to load a third-party library to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2339">TS</a>]

00:39:01   with regular expressions native objects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2341">TS</a>]

00:39:04   and classes not to get into the oo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2344">TS</a>]

00:39:07   procedural debate functional programming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2347">TS</a>]

00:39:10   a lot stuff but if you're going to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2350">TS</a>]

00:39:12   something that's sort of like objects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2352">TS</a>]

00:39:13   and classes and you're you know that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2353">TS</a>]

00:39:14   going to be like the way you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2354">TS</a>]

00:39:16   modularization in your code make it part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2356">TS</a>]

00:39:18   of the language don't make it so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2358">TS</a>]

00:39:19   everyone has to sort of roll their own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2359">TS</a>]

00:39:20   thing in javascript or say hey we have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2360">TS</a>]

00:39:22   our own object system you know we've got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2362">TS</a>]

00:39:24   and we've got our own heritage systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2364">TS</a>]

00:39:25   but it's one that people have decided [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2365">TS</a>]

00:39:27   they don't want to use like prototype [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2367">TS</a>]

00:39:29   inheritance people may love it and think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2369">TS</a>]

00:39:30   it's cool and everything but everyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2370">TS</a>]

00:39:32   who wants to program in java scripts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2372">TS</a>]

00:39:33   like great so how do i make a class and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2373">TS</a>]

00:39:35   that's kind of a shame for the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2375">TS</a>]

00:39:36   who love prototype based inheritance but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2376">TS</a>]

00:39:38   the bottom line is that that's what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2378">TS</a>]

00:39:40   people want and you know every single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2380">TS</a>]

00:39:42   library bends over backwards to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2382">TS</a>]

00:39:43   something that at least looks a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2383">TS</a>]

00:39:45   bit like objects and classes even when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2385">TS</a>]

00:39:47   under the covers it's not quite the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2387">TS</a>]

00:39:48   thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2388">TS</a>]

00:39:50   one I'll add on here that these are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2390">TS</a>]

00:39:53   getting progressively more controversial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2393">TS</a>]

00:39:55   I think is it named parameters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2395">TS</a>]

00:39:57   positional parameters sucka they could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2397">TS</a>]

00:39:59   probably all agree on that no one wants [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2399">TS</a>]

00:40:00   a function with 27 parameters that have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2400">TS</a>]

00:40:02   to be exactly the right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2402">TS</a>]

00:40:03   and you gotta pass nulls or zeros for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2403">TS</a>]

00:40:05   the ones you don't include and stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2405">TS</a>]

00:40:05   like that names parameters if you if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2405">TS</a>]

00:40:08   your language doesn't have name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2408">TS</a>]

00:40:09   parameters people will basically invent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2409">TS</a>]

00:40:10   them you know for JavaScript passing in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2410">TS</a>]

00:40:13   you know the little JavaScript object [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2413">TS</a>]

00:40:16   notation for you know name value pairs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2416">TS</a>]

00:40:18   and stuff like that it's not name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2418">TS</a>]

00:40:19   parameters and I really need to language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2419">TS</a>]

00:40:20   but this is a data structure that looks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2420">TS</a>]

00:40:22   just like name parameters that's what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2422">TS</a>]

00:40:23   everybody uses but it means that order [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2423">TS</a>]

00:40:26   is not important and you don't have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2426">TS</a>]

00:40:27   remember what the seventh argument is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2427">TS</a>]

00:40:29   well the 12th argument is and stuff like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2429">TS</a>]

00:40:31   that people want names that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2431">TS</a>]

00:40:33   parameter the code reads better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2433">TS</a>]

00:40:34   Objective C has a half solution where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2434">TS</a>]

00:40:36   it's like are we had name parameters but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2436">TS</a>]

00:40:37   you still have to put them in order and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2437">TS</a>]

00:40:38   if you don't need to put one you got to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2438">TS</a>]

00:40:40   put a null for it and this it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2440">TS</a>]

00:40:42   sea-based language you forgive it a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2442">TS</a>]

00:40:43   but I think we can all agree things to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2443">TS</a>]

00:40:45   have that name parameters succinct [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2445">TS</a>]

00:40:48   syntax for common operations that means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2448">TS</a>]

00:40:50   no boilerplate it means as no matter how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2450">TS</a>]

00:40:53   theoretically pure your language is now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2453">TS</a>]

00:40:55   wants to deal with templates or like if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2455">TS</a>]

00:40:57   you want to make a class put these 80 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2457">TS</a>]

00:40:58   lines of codes in there and then put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2458">TS</a>]

00:41:00   your one line of code that's specific to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2460">TS</a>]

00:41:02   your thing and people don't want things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2462">TS</a>]

00:41:04   to be verbose and wordy and just huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2464">TS</a>]

00:41:06   they want things to be tight and small [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2466">TS</a>]

00:41:08   because if they're not they're not tight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2468">TS</a>]

00:41:10   and small like in JavaScript where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2470">TS</a>]

00:41:11   got to do these little anonymous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2471">TS</a>]

00:41:12   function closures and everything to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2472">TS</a>]

00:41:14   variables inside of scope they will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2474">TS</a>]

00:41:15   invent the syntax that is succinct to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2475">TS</a>]

00:41:17   replace your crappy one you know it got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2477">TS</a>]

00:41:20   thanks gamez ago drop it a CoffeeScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2480">TS</a>]

00:41:21   people were sick of typing the word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2481">TS</a>]

00:41:22   function out what that's you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2482">TS</a>]

00:41:24   Huffman coding in the parlance of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2484">TS</a>]

00:41:26   Larry wallet people going to be typing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2486">TS</a>]

00:41:27   the word function eight bazillion times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2487">TS</a>]

00:41:29   don't spell it out function you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2489">TS</a>]

00:41:30   CoffeeScript goes with a little arrow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2490">TS</a>]

00:41:31   because it's much faster to type it the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2491">TS</a>]

00:41:34   things that are commonly used to be fast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2494">TS</a>]

00:41:36   a type and small you know not giant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2496">TS</a>]

00:41:39   words um have any other good ones here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2499">TS</a>]

00:41:43   some sort of acknowledgment of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2503">TS</a>]

00:41:45   concurrency I think we've all agreed is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2505">TS</a>]

00:41:47   good because languages without any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2507">TS</a>]

00:41:48   acknowledgement that concurrency exists [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2508">TS</a>]

00:41:50   you end up having problems with it like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2510">TS</a>]

00:41:52   doesn't mean you have to be you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2512">TS</a>]

00:41:53   super concurrent like Erlang or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2513">TS</a>]

00:41:55   and your entire language is based around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2515">TS</a>]

00:41:56   that but an acknowledgment that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2516">TS</a>]

00:41:58   exists and some native mechanism for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2518">TS</a>]

00:42:01   dealing with it even is just like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2521">TS</a>]

00:42:03   couple primitive native I would say that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2523">TS</a>]

00:42:05   if you have just have a couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2525">TS</a>]

00:42:06   primitives from mutexes and stuff like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2526">TS</a>]

00:42:08   that then people have this kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2528">TS</a>]

00:42:09   invent some sort of concurrency thing on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2529">TS</a>]

00:42:11   top of it I mean even it's like implicit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2531">TS</a>]

00:42:13   concurrency just some acknowledgement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2533">TS</a>]

00:42:14   that it exists even if you don't even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2534">TS</a>]

00:42:16   implement it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2536">TS</a>]

00:42:16   have a language or you can say okay our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2536">TS</a>]

00:42:18   language construct that looks like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2538">TS</a>]

00:42:20   may not have any actual concurrency but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2540">TS</a>]

00:42:24   the implementation is free to do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2544">TS</a>]

00:42:26   concurrently because order is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2546">TS</a>]

00:42:27   guaranteed you know something like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2547">TS</a>]

00:42:29   I think we've all agreed is a good thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2549">TS</a>]

00:42:30   because languages that don't have that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2550">TS</a>]

00:42:32   it's really hard to add concurrency [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2552">TS</a>]

00:42:33   after the fact so pick a language you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2553">TS</a>]

00:42:37   can find some of these things that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2557">TS</a>]

00:42:38   missing from it often frustratingly so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2558">TS</a>]

00:42:41   and the question is why if we all if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2561">TS</a>]

00:42:43   you'll agree that these things are great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2563">TS</a>]

00:42:44   and you know over the years we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2564">TS</a>]

00:42:46   decided this is what languages should be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2566">TS</a>]

00:42:48   and we keep adding new things to this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2568">TS</a>]

00:42:50   list why can't we just make a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2570">TS</a>]

00:42:52   language that does that well a language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2572">TS</a>]

00:42:54   in isolation is pretty darn useless if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2574">TS</a>]

00:42:56   you don't have anything to do with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2576">TS</a>]

00:42:57   language if you don't have an API to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2577">TS</a>]

00:42:58   write foo you can't make programs for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2578">TS</a>]

00:43:01   particular platform you're kind of stuck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2581">TS</a>]

00:43:03   which is a lot of the reason you see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2583">TS</a>]

00:43:04   like the CoffeeScript and objective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2584">TS</a>]

00:43:06   sayst J stuff they could invent those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2586">TS</a>]

00:43:08   languages and I thought hey it's great a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2588">TS</a>]

00:43:09   menu language called objective J and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2589">TS</a>]

00:43:13   looks like this and it's really fun to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2593">TS</a>]

00:43:14   use they look great what can I do with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2594">TS</a>]

00:43:16   that we said well you can write web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2596">TS</a>]

00:43:17   applications feel like I can't require [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2597">TS</a>]

00:43:19   occasions my web browser doesn't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2599">TS</a>]

00:43:20   objective site so well we'll take your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2600">TS</a>]

00:43:21   objective saying J and compile it into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2601">TS</a>]

00:43:23   JavaScript and then suddenly you have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2603">TS</a>]

00:43:25   use for this cool new language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2605">TS</a>]

00:43:26   CoffeeScript is similar to that or you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2606">TS</a>]

00:43:28   know rails will make a new API since no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2608">TS</a>]

00:43:30   one seems to be using Ruby now but we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2610">TS</a>]

00:43:32   think it's really cool here's this great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2612">TS</a>]

00:43:34   new framework and if you want to use a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2614">TS</a>]

00:43:36   framework use the language ah nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2616">TS</a>]

00:43:39   questions why can't we just add these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2619">TS</a>]

00:43:40   cool features to existing languages well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2620">TS</a>]

00:43:42   it's not it's not easy to add features [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2622">TS</a>]

00:43:44   to languages because you've got that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2624">TS</a>]

00:43:47   know installed base and the people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2627">TS</a>]

00:43:50   are currently using the language just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2630">TS</a>]

00:43:51   like what happened with trying to make a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2631">TS</a>]

00:43:52   Akuma script for which is going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2632">TS</a>]

00:43:54   the successor to JavaScript which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2634">TS</a>]

00:43:55   going to add all sorts of cool wizzy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2635">TS</a>]

00:43:57   stuff that a lot of which is from that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2637">TS</a>]

00:43:59   previous list add that to JavaScript but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2639">TS</a>]

00:44:02   then is like you know it's an open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2642">TS</a>]

00:44:04   standard and there's standards bodies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2644">TS</a>]

00:44:05   and people with interests in keeping the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2645">TS</a>]

00:44:07   language the way it is and then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2647">TS</a>]

00:44:08   can't get people to agree about what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2648">TS</a>]

00:44:10   should be added and what shouldn't and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2650">TS</a>]

00:44:11   then whole process kind of ground to a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2651">TS</a>]

00:44:12   halt and is really difficult to add [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2652">TS</a>]

00:44:15   stuff to an existing language and even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2655">TS</a>]

00:44:17   if you get everyone to agree it takes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2657">TS</a>]

00:44:19   forever for them to be useful like if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2659">TS</a>]

00:44:21   you made here's the new version of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2661">TS</a>]

00:44:22   JavaScript and he's got these great new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2662">TS</a>]

00:44:24   features in fact it's got half of jQuery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2664">TS</a>]

00:44:25   built into it well you can't use that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2665">TS</a>]

00:44:28   until some you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2668">TS</a>]

00:44:30   a huge percentage of the population has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2670">TS</a>]

00:44:32   upgraded all their browsers to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2672">TS</a>]

00:44:34   browser that has the fancy new version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2674">TS</a>]

00:44:36   of JavaScript in it and it takes years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2676">TS</a>]

00:44:39   initialize to happen right look at how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2679">TS</a>]

00:44:40   long it's taken for dotnet to be viable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2680">TS</a>]

00:44:44   because you had all those pcs out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2684">TS</a>]

00:44:46   they couldn't run dotnet or didn't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2686">TS</a>]

00:44:48   dotnet installed and you didn't want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2688">TS</a>]

00:44:50   your application to be the one that says [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2690">TS</a>]

00:44:51   oh here's my cool new application but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2691">TS</a>]

00:44:53   first you got to download this 20 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2693">TS</a>]

00:44:54   megabyte net runtime and then you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2694">TS</a>]

00:44:55   it's a it's a big hang-up where people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2695">TS</a>]

00:44:58   don't want to download your application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2698">TS</a>]

00:44:59   then you have all those machines in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2699">TS</a>]

00:45:00   China they're still running Windows XP [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2700">TS</a>]

00:45:01   and it's just it's just a mess so it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2701">TS</a>]

00:45:04   really really difficult to add features [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2704">TS</a>]

00:45:07   to existing languages and even when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2707">TS</a>]

00:45:09   can you have to wait so long to use them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2709">TS</a>]

00:45:10   the by the time you get to use them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2710">TS</a>]

00:45:12   maybe you think that all the features [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2712">TS</a>]

00:45:14   you add you're too little and you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2714">TS</a>]

00:45:16   the a language is crappy again so we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2716">TS</a>]

00:45:18   basically forced to suffer through using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2718">TS</a>]

00:45:20   crappy ancient languages you know as the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2720">TS</a>]

00:45:23   rest of technology advances quickly you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2723">TS</a>]

00:45:25   know and even within the browser stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2725">TS</a>]

00:45:27   advances faster than languages like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2727">TS</a>]

00:45:28   CSS DOM and J and Java Sea is that built [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2728">TS</a>]

00:45:32   are rapidly advancing but the JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2732">TS</a>]

00:45:34   language not so much like look how fast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2734">TS</a>]

00:45:36   you know new versions of CSS are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2736">TS</a>]

00:45:38   supported a new Dom methods and this Dom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2738">TS</a>]

00:45:39   method is native now we're adding local [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2739">TS</a>]

00:45:40   database support and all sorts of cool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2740">TS</a>]

00:45:43   stuff that you can write to the API is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2743">TS</a>]

00:45:45   advanced quickly but the JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2745">TS</a>]

00:45:46   language is just stuck I mean you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2746">TS</a>]

00:45:49   it there have been tweaks here and there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2749">TS</a>]

00:45:50   and obviously the implementation it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2750">TS</a>]

00:45:52   way way faster but the language itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2752">TS</a>]

00:45:53   it's the same old crappy self that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2753">TS</a>]

00:45:55   always was more or less and so here I we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2755">TS</a>]

00:45:58   just wait with crossed fingers and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2758">TS</a>]

00:46:00   just hope that whatever the next hit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2760">TS</a>]

00:46:02   platform or API is that it's going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2762">TS</a>]

00:46:04   use a better language right and that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2764">TS</a>]

00:46:07   that's not just wishful thinking it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2767">TS</a>]

00:46:08   happened before so like when the CGI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2768">TS</a>]

00:46:10   stuff came along that sort of ushered in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2770">TS</a>]

00:46:12   a new wave of you know dynamic languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2772">TS</a>]

00:46:14   with the PC had the Perl Python PHP you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2774">TS</a>]

00:46:19   know you couldn't you couldn't make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2779">TS</a>]

00:46:20   those viable to the C programmer say hey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2780">TS</a>]

00:46:22   stop doing your systems programming in C [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2782">TS</a>]

00:46:24   and C++ [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2784">TS</a>]

00:46:24   try purl knit go no thanks but and see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2784">TS</a>]

00:46:28   when CGI comes along and the P languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2788">TS</a>]

00:46:30   yeah oh as a new platform and with this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2790">TS</a>]

00:46:33   new platform we're going to get to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2793">TS</a>]

00:46:34   better languages and since there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2794">TS</a>]

00:46:35   incumbent to unseat and so we don't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2795">TS</a>]

00:46:37   to convince the C and C++ programmers to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2797">TS</a>]

00:46:39   come over we'll just get these new guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2799">TS</a>]

00:46:41   hey new guys cool new language try this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2801">TS</a>]

00:46:42   out write web applications [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2802">TS</a>]

00:46:44   and same thing with rails in Ruby Ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2804">TS</a>]

00:46:46   was not going to be to take over the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2806">TS</a>]

00:46:48   world you know it was not going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2808">TS</a>]

00:46:49   replace you know C++ or you can see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2809">TS</a>]

00:46:52   sharp as the windows programming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2812">TS</a>]

00:46:54   language but if they make this new thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2814">TS</a>]

00:46:56   with there's no incumbent then Ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2816">TS</a>]

00:46:57   suddenly can become popular and cocoa [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2817">TS</a>]

00:46:58   with Objective C and so on and so forth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2818">TS</a>]

00:47:00   [Music] [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2820">TS</a>]

00:47:04   and of course it helps when you have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2824">TS</a>]

00:47:05   language is controlled by a single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2825">TS</a>]

00:47:07   vendor like c-sharp where C and C++ you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2827">TS</a>]

00:47:12   know with it's standard versions that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2832">TS</a>]

00:47:14   take a million years to come out doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2834">TS</a>]

00:47:15   change that quickly but c-sharp has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2835">TS</a>]

00:47:17   changed really fast like it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2837">TS</a>]

00:47:18   introduced out of nowhere as kind of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2838">TS</a>]

00:47:19   Java cloning thing or whatever and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2839">TS</a>]

00:47:22   they've advanced now their versioning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2842">TS</a>]

00:47:23   version their language like C sharp [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2843">TS</a>]

00:47:25   point 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 since a single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2845">TS</a>]

00:47:29   vendor controls it they don't have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2849">TS</a>]

00:47:30   get the okay from anyone else they just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2850">TS</a>]

00:47:32   stick you want to add a cool new feature [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2852">TS</a>]

00:47:33   to language or controlling we're going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2853">TS</a>]

00:47:34   to add a new feature add a new feature [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2854">TS</a>]

00:47:35   Apple does something similar with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2855">TS</a>]

00:47:37   Objective C maybe a little bit slower [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2857">TS</a>]

00:47:39   but they took it easy in the beginning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2859">TS</a>]

00:47:40   because they're just getting your OB on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2860">TS</a>]

00:47:42   board Objective C but then it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2862">TS</a>]

00:47:43   guess what properties synthesized [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2863">TS</a>]

00:47:45   methods and the dot syntax and now fast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2865">TS</a>]

00:47:49   enumeration and and blocks and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2869">TS</a>]

00:47:51   I mean they're add except to C that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2871">TS</a>]

00:47:52   pretty crazy it's kind of more of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2872">TS</a>]

00:47:54   library thing but if you if you have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2874">TS</a>]

00:47:57   single vendor and control of a language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2877">TS</a>]

00:47:59   it can advanced more rapidly than the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2879">TS</a>]

00:48:01   standards-based languages but then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2881">TS</a>]

00:48:02   know it's the other side of that coin is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2882">TS</a>]

00:48:03   that if it's not a standard base [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2883">TS</a>]

00:48:04   language people are afraid to use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2884">TS</a>]

00:48:05   because they're like I don't want to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2885">TS</a>]

00:48:06   under Apple's thumb I'm not going to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2886">TS</a>]

00:48:08   Objective C and I don't want to be under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2888">TS</a>]

00:48:10   Microsoft's thumb so I'm not going to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2890">TS</a>]

00:48:11   she sharp and even if it's like an open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2891">TS</a>]

00:48:13   standards de facto controlled by one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2893">TS</a>]

00:48:15   person it's always a tension there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2895">TS</a>]

00:48:17   between the development of the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2897">TS</a>]

00:48:19   and how fast is going to move on so now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2899">TS</a>]

00:48:25   finally finally I think we can talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2905">TS</a>]

00:48:28   about Perl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2908">TS</a>]

00:48:28   oh is this is this is the interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2908">TS</a>]

00:48:31   part for me where you get to participate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2911">TS</a>]

00:48:33   and express your disdain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2913">TS</a>]

00:48:35   people love the rants when you go on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2915">TS</a>]

00:48:37   rants like that they love it last time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2917">TS</a>]

00:48:42   so people tuned in for booed maybe we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2922">TS</a>]

00:48:44   should do our spot you want to do the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2924">TS</a>]

00:48:45   sponsor now or neck or after this yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2925">TS</a>]

00:48:47   you should go for it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2927">TS</a>]

00:48:48   world view we've talked about these guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2928">TS</a>]

00:48:50   before this is the totally addictive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2930">TS</a>]

00:48:52   take on email reporting from campaign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2932">TS</a>]

00:48:54   monitor basically and we have a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2934">TS</a>]

00:48:55   people I think in the audience ooh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2935">TS</a>]

00:48:57   - newsletters they have their own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2937">TS</a>]

00:48:58   business they have a small they do a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2938">TS</a>]

00:49:01   website maybe they're a software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2941">TS</a>]

00:49:02   developer they have clients so this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2942">TS</a>]

00:49:05   from campaign monitor when you send a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2945">TS</a>]

00:49:06   newsletter they'll show you on a map in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2946">TS</a>]

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00:49:09   whenever somebody opens the newsletter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2949">TS</a>]

00:49:11   because that's the thing you send out a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2951">TS</a>]

00:49:12   newsletter you're like whoa who read it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2952">TS</a>]

00:49:14   Oh 34 people read it who where are they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2954">TS</a>]

00:49:16   what's going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2956">TS</a>]

00:49:18   now they actually show you this in real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2958">TS</a>]

00:49:21   time on a map and it's very you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2961">TS</a>]

00:49:23   talking about things like JavaScript a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2963">TS</a>]

00:49:25   lot of JavaScript here but it's all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2965">TS</a>]

00:49:28   seamless it's gorgeous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2968">TS</a>]

00:49:29   gonna check this out go to a campaign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2969">TS</a>]

00:49:31   monitor comm slash world view whenever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2971">TS</a>]

00:49:34   somebody opens your newsletter when they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2974">TS</a>]

00:49:36   click on a link when they forward it to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2976">TS</a>]

00:49:37   a buddy in in real time it shows up on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2977">TS</a>]

00:49:40   this map are you looking at it right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2980">TS</a>]

00:49:41   it's very cool it also show you on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2981">TS</a>]

00:49:44   Facebook when it's mentioned when it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2984">TS</a>]

00:49:46   mentioned on Twitter instantaneously and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2986">TS</a>]

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00:49:53   free too so go check them out check [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2993">TS</a>]

00:49:54   these guys out campaign monitor comm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2994">TS</a>]

00:49:56   slash worldview [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2996">TS</a>]

00:49:58   thanks very much those guys they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/2998">TS</a>]

00:50:01   really smart for advertising that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3001">TS</a>]

00:50:02   feature because I guarantee you that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3002">TS</a>]

00:50:04   the the feature that the people who who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3004">TS</a>]

00:50:06   purchase the service are most excited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3006">TS</a>]

00:50:07   about news you can just see people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3007">TS</a>]

00:50:09   staring at that map you know because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3009">TS</a>]

00:50:10   watching listening and you're gonna send [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3010">TS</a>]

00:50:12   out direct communication like this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3012">TS</a>]

00:50:14   what you want like if you just click the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3014">TS</a>]

00:50:16   button and go home it's not exciting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3016">TS</a>]

00:50:17   you're gonna sit there and stare at that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3017">TS</a>]

00:50:18   map and like now now the world will see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3018">TS</a>]

00:50:21   what I have to say and exactly that is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3021">TS</a>]

00:50:24   very smart feature very cool and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3024">TS</a>]

00:50:26   just a demo so go go try this out anyway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3026">TS</a>]

00:50:28   we got to talk about this Perl thing now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3028">TS</a>]

00:50:30   you it has been revealed here not only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3030">TS</a>]

00:50:34   to two things that are I think going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3034">TS</a>]

00:50:36   be shocking to most of the listening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3036">TS</a>]

00:50:38   audience the first one is listen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3038">TS</a>]

00:50:40   other shows we've talked about it before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3040">TS</a>]

00:50:42   two things are going to be shocking to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3042">TS</a>]

00:50:44   listening on it's the first one is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3044">TS</a>]

00:50:46   you you your job you are a pearl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3046">TS</a>]

00:50:50   programmer so that's shocked number one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3050">TS</a>]

00:50:52   and shock number two is that at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3052">TS</a>]

00:50:55   this is the part that we're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3055">TS</a>]

00:50:56   have to talk about my understanding is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3056">TS</a>]

00:50:58   you can actually read the pearl after [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3058">TS</a>]

00:51:01   you've written it you can go back and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3061">TS</a>]

00:51:02   read what you've written and understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3062">TS</a>]

00:51:04   it which is my understanding is that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3064">TS</a>]

00:51:06   not possible with pearl at all even in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3066">TS</a>]

00:51:08   the best situation so I'd like for you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3068">TS</a>]

00:51:09   to address both of those points [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3069">TS</a>]

00:51:11   please begin well at first I want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3071">TS</a>]

00:51:14   talk about something that you said on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3074">TS</a>]

00:51:15   past show about objective-c but I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3075">TS</a>]

00:51:17   it was on the previous show where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3077">TS</a>]

00:51:19   were talking about the square brackets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3079">TS</a>]

00:51:20   in a coalition - and you can't stand I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3080">TS</a>]

00:51:23   don't like this yeah so you've obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3083">TS</a>]

00:51:25   done a little bit of objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3085">TS</a>]

00:51:26   development ah yeah and you like what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3086">TS</a>]

00:51:30   the language can do for you you like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3090">TS</a>]

00:51:32   yeah the resulting applications you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3092">TS</a>]

00:51:34   you like the platform you like iOS you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3094">TS</a>]

00:51:35   like Mac OS 10 yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3095">TS</a>]

00:51:37   but the language itself you don't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3097">TS</a>]

00:51:40   and you brought up the square brackets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3100">TS</a>]

00:51:42   cuz you think they're ugly I don't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3102">TS</a>]

00:51:45   this I don't like the look of it I am a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3105">TS</a>]

00:51:47   very uh I care a lot at least on on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3107">TS</a>]

00:51:52   computer I care a lot about how things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3112">TS</a>]

00:51:55   look visually but you know I'm a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3115">TS</a>]

00:51:57   stickler for fonts I've written a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3117">TS</a>]

00:51:59   articles on high vulajin sand what fonts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3119">TS</a>]

00:52:04   I it's you know the editor that I use is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3124">TS</a>]

00:52:07   almost secondary to the font that I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3127">TS</a>]

00:52:09   using to do code in I mean I'm very the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3129">TS</a>]

00:52:12   way that things look the way the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3132">TS</a>]

00:52:13   language looks and this this again this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3133">TS</a>]

00:52:15   is why I'm such a big fan of programming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3135">TS</a>]

00:52:18   languages like Ruby because they look it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3138">TS</a>]

00:52:21   looks great I mean even even the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3141">TS</a>]

00:52:23   who hate the Ruby most and I'm talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3143">TS</a>]

00:52:25   about anybody who prefers Python they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3145">TS</a>]

00:52:28   the biggest the biggest anti rubyists [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3148">TS</a>]

00:52:30   out there in the world even they admit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3150">TS</a>]

00:52:32   the Ruby looks nice I mean they'll say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3152">TS</a>]

00:52:33   python is better I'm you know we don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3153">TS</a>]

00:52:35   need to get into that on this show but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3155">TS</a>]

00:52:38   even they'll admit that it is a nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3158">TS</a>]

00:52:40   looking a nice looking language for me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3160">TS</a>]

00:52:43   that typing in in something that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3163">TS</a>]

00:52:46   you know creating code that looks nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3166">TS</a>]

00:52:48   I'd I'd try you know I love that so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3168">TS</a>]

00:52:51   matters to me there's a lot of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3171">TS</a>]

00:52:53   who are you know laughing saying oh who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3173">TS</a>]

00:52:55   cares about that it's the power of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3175">TS</a>]

00:52:57   language that you want and and if that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3177">TS</a>]

00:52:59   the case then I think they get in line [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3179">TS</a>]

00:53:02   with you and then start writing right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3182">TS</a>]

00:53:04   and Perl because you can do stuff in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3184">TS</a>]

00:53:06   Perl it's just kind of crazy so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3186">TS</a>]

00:53:09   point I want to bring up about this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3189">TS</a>]

00:53:11   two things first that aesthetics and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3191">TS</a>]

00:53:13   programming languages even though it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3193">TS</a>]

00:53:15   subjective I think you could probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3195">TS</a>]

00:53:19   identify some themes and I think one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3199">TS</a>]

00:53:22   the themes especially for the people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3202">TS</a>]

00:53:24   like Ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3204">TS</a>]

00:53:25   is that none word characters are ugly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3205">TS</a>]

00:53:29   and word characters are not right so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3209">TS</a>]

00:53:32   anytime you get a non word characters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3212">TS</a>]

00:53:34   anything that's not you know a through Z [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3214">TS</a>]

00:53:35   numbers or underscores maybe hyphens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3215">TS</a>]

00:53:37   anytime you get anything that's not one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3217">TS</a>]

00:53:39   of those characters it's it's noisy and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3219">TS</a>]

00:53:41   it's ugly but you know basically any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3221">TS</a>]

00:53:42   character you wouldn't see in prose or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3222">TS</a>]

00:53:44   even stuff like commas sometimes with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3224">TS</a>]

00:53:46   periods they don't like right so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3226">TS</a>]

00:53:48   square brackets they fall under your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3228">TS</a>]

00:53:49   your unkind gaze because square brackets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3229">TS</a>]

00:53:53   don't appear in regular prose almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3233">TS</a>]

00:53:55   ever and there's certainly not word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3235">TS</a>]

00:53:57   characters and they're actually kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3237">TS</a>]

00:53:58   like sharp pointy edges right am i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3238">TS</a>]

00:54:01   understanding by the way as an aside is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3241">TS</a>]

00:54:02   that you can use dot notation instead of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3242">TS</a>]

00:54:07   brackets in objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3247">TS</a>]

00:54:10   and I was talk to the guy who wrote note [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3250">TS</a>]

00:54:12   C which is a great iOS app he told me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3252">TS</a>]

00:54:15   this on the daily Edition earlier in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3255">TS</a>]

00:54:17   week I heard that but then you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3257">TS</a>]

00:54:20   falling into something that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3260">TS</a>]

00:54:21   non-standard you're like the one guy who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3261">TS</a>]

00:54:22   does it that way which is not a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3262">TS</a>]

00:54:25   good topic I want to talk to you about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3265">TS</a>]

00:54:27   perhaps on this show or another show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3267">TS</a>]

00:54:28   about whether you adapt the language to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3268">TS</a>]

00:54:31   your own particular style or whether you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3271">TS</a>]

00:54:33   adapt your style to the language of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3273">TS</a>]

00:54:35   choice or a third option as you adopt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3275">TS</a>]

00:54:38   whatever the corporate style is for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3278">TS</a>]

00:54:42   project and or tasks that your team team [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3282">TS</a>]

00:54:46   rather that you're working on anyway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3286">TS</a>]

00:54:47   there could be another topic well Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3287">TS</a>]

00:54:49   has been pushing sort of pushing the dot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3289">TS</a>]

00:54:52   syntax even within Apple there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3292">TS</a>]

00:54:56   people who still won't use it and I bet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3296">TS</a>]

00:54:57   if you were to look at Apple's code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3297">TS</a>]

00:54:58   they'd be big divisions like these are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3298">TS</a>]

00:54:59   the dot people and these are the non dot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3299">TS</a>]

00:55:01   people I think suspect the old-school [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3301">TS</a>]

00:55:03   guys don't like that syntax but apples [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3303">TS</a>]

00:55:04   been pushing it a lot like if you go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3304">TS</a>]

00:55:06   WC a lot of the sessions the official [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3306">TS</a>]

00:55:08   party line is we invented dot notation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3308">TS</a>]

00:55:11   so you could use it it's not like we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3311">TS</a>]

00:55:12   going to invent it and nobody should use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3312">TS</a>]

00:55:13   it you should use it and they will make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3313">TS</a>]

00:55:15   a good show of saying we here at Apple I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3315">TS</a>]

00:55:17   trying to use it too with our new you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3317">TS</a>]

00:55:19   know stuff at the very least I want you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3319">TS</a>]

00:55:21   to use the app property at synthesize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3321">TS</a>]

00:55:22   and stuff like that like they're pushing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3322">TS</a>]

00:55:24   that as a modernization of the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3324">TS</a>]

00:55:26   right um [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3326">TS</a>]

00:55:27   and partly because I think it does look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3327">TS</a>]

00:55:30   nicer you know fewer non word characters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3330">TS</a>]

00:55:33   right so the point I want to bring up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3333">TS</a>]

00:55:34   about non word characters is the aside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3334">TS</a>]

00:55:36   that I meant to get to last time about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3336">TS</a>]

00:55:37   the Joint Strike Fighter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3337">TS</a>]

00:55:39   I put a link in the show notes too to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3339">TS</a>]

00:55:40   this the Joint Strike Fighter was a US [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3340">TS</a>]

00:55:43   government project to make a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3343">TS</a>]

00:55:46   airplane to replace several existing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3346">TS</a>]

00:55:49   models of airplanes through several [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3349">TS</a>]

00:55:51   branches of the armed forces they wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3351">TS</a>]

00:55:53   to replace a bunch of planes in the Navy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3353">TS</a>]

00:55:54   the Air Force and the Marines with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3354">TS</a>]

00:55:57   single new plan that could be adapted to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3357">TS</a>]

00:55:58   several different purposes that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3358">TS</a>]

00:56:00   actually an aside that's not the point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3360">TS</a>]

00:56:01   of trying to get about making one plane [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3361">TS</a>]

00:56:02   to replace many different other ones but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3362">TS</a>]

00:56:04   the main thing is they had a competition [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3364">TS</a>]

00:56:05   between defense contractors said you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3365">TS</a>]

00:56:07   want to be the the company that makes a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3367">TS</a>]

00:56:08   Joint Strike Fighter well you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3368">TS</a>]

00:56:10   here's some amount of money and bring us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3370">TS</a>]

00:56:13   two prototypes and you know it was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3373">TS</a>]

00:56:16   competition between basically Boeing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3376">TS</a>]

00:56:18   Lockheed were the two big ones that were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3378">TS</a>]

00:56:19   the only people who had the money and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3379">TS</a>]

00:56:21   skills basically to compete so it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3381">TS</a>]

00:56:24   actually contract for the government [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3384">TS</a>]

00:56:25   that did they had more than one bidder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3385">TS</a>]

00:56:26   but anyway uh they said you know bring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3386">TS</a>]

00:56:28   us what you think is the best suited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3388">TS</a>]

00:56:30   plane for this and then we as the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3390">TS</a>]

00:56:31   government will take a look well you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3391">TS</a>]

00:56:32   brought us and bring each one through a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3392">TS</a>]

00:56:33   series of tests and decide which one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3393">TS</a>]

00:56:35   we're going to spend you know bazillions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3395">TS</a>]

00:56:36   of dollars on over the next decade two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3396">TS</a>]

00:56:38   decades three decades to replace all our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3398">TS</a>]

00:56:40   points and there was a PBS show I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3400">TS</a>]

00:56:43   it was a nova thing but anyways a link [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3403">TS</a>]

00:56:45   to in the show notes I don't know if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3405">TS</a>]

00:56:46   can actually watch the video it's a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3406">TS</a>]

00:56:47   old show so I think maybe you can get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3407">TS</a>]

00:56:49   the video online but if not you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3409">TS</a>]

00:56:51   maybe see if it comes on TV again but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3411">TS</a>]

00:56:54   was a documentary showing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3414">TS</a>]

00:56:56   competition between Boeing and Lockheed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3416">TS</a>]

00:56:57   which is excellent show if you have an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3417">TS</a>]

00:56:58   hour of time you can find this thing you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3418">TS</a>]

00:57:00   should watch it it's really awesome to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3420">TS</a>]

00:57:01   watch the show but the boss fascinating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3421">TS</a>]

00:57:03   aspect of it was that at a certain point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3423">TS</a>]

00:57:05   in the program they started to talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3425">TS</a>]

00:57:08   about the difference between these two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3428">TS</a>]

00:57:10   planes and it was something that would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3430">TS</a>]

00:57:12   be on anyone's mind watching the show up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3432">TS</a>]

00:57:14   to that point but not discuss then they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3434">TS</a>]

00:57:15   came out and discussed it which was that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3435">TS</a>]

00:57:17   Boeing's entry was uglier than la Keats [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3437">TS</a>]

00:57:20   the plane itself have you were to put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3440">TS</a>]

00:57:22   them side-by-side like right note from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3442">TS</a>]

00:57:23   the second you see it Lockheed looks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3443">TS</a>]

00:57:25   cool like a little spaceship like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3445">TS</a>]

00:57:26   something from Star Wars and Boeing's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3446">TS</a>]

00:57:27   it's kind of you know homely looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3447">TS</a>]

00:57:29   it's got a big mouth for an air intake [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3449">TS</a>]

00:57:31   and it's kind of stub nosed and just it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3451">TS</a>]

00:57:34   just looks uglier now this is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3454">TS</a>]

00:57:37   competition billions and billions of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3457">TS</a>]

00:57:40   dollars are on the line [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3460">TS</a>]

00:57:41   the security of your entire nation the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3461">TS</a>]

00:57:43   safety of your people there's going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3463">TS</a>]

00:57:45   be people flying these planes people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3465">TS</a>]

00:57:46   repairing like the looks of these planes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3466">TS</a>]

00:57:49   you would think could anything possibly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3469">TS</a>]

00:57:51   be less important this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3471">TS</a>]

00:57:52   life-or-death situation things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3472">TS</a>]

00:57:55   matter are like performance cost safety [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3475">TS</a>]

00:57:57   you know effectiveness that the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3477">TS</a>]

00:58:01   performance of the actual plane itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3481">TS</a>]

00:58:03   the durability does looks have anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3483">TS</a>]

00:58:07   to do with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3487">TS</a>]

00:58:07   anything at all and as the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3487">TS</a>]

00:58:09   discuss very openly in the show they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3489">TS</a>]

00:58:11   say you know well looks of the plane [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3491">TS</a>]

00:58:14   really shouldn't matter but is it an old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3494">TS</a>]

00:58:15   saying in aviation that if it looks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3495">TS</a>]

00:58:17   right it'll fly right hmm now that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3497">TS</a>]

00:58:19   saying the origin of that saying is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3499">TS</a>]

00:58:22   that's just like a massive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3502">TS</a>]

00:58:23   rationalization for the idea that people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3503">TS</a>]

00:58:25   and men in particular are hardwired to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3505">TS</a>]

00:58:27   like things that are attractive doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3507">TS</a>]

00:58:29   mean the plane has to look like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3509">TS</a>]

00:58:30   the body of a woman although it often [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3510">TS</a>]

00:58:32   does but that people like beautiful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3512">TS</a>]

00:58:35   things and you can they're rational mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3515">TS</a>]

00:58:38   can say to them all the other stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3518">TS</a>]

00:58:39   about how everything else is more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3519">TS</a>]

00:58:41   important and how this plane looks means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3521">TS</a>]

00:58:42   absolutely nothing the bottom line is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3522">TS</a>]

00:58:44   that the better-looking plane usually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3524">TS</a>]

00:58:46   wins when there's a competition for you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3526">TS</a>]

00:58:48   know which things going to get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3528">TS</a>]

00:58:49   contract and I'm not saying that's why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3529">TS</a>]

00:58:52   the winner of the Lockheed won this this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3532">TS</a>]

00:58:55   contract I don't think I'm spoiling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3535">TS</a>]

00:58:57   anything to say that but Lockheed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3537">TS</a>]

00:59:00   eventually did win because they had the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3540">TS</a>]

00:59:01   better-looking plane right there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3541">TS</a>]

00:59:03   many other reasons that that they won [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3543">TS</a>]

00:59:05   the contract but the fact that looks was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3545">TS</a>]

00:59:08   acknowledged to be a factor that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3548">TS</a>]

00:59:10   basically saying we can't help but we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3550">TS</a>]

00:59:12   silly meatbags who love beautiful things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3552">TS</a>]

00:59:13   and right or wrong looks are going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3553">TS</a>]

00:59:16   a factor and we can rationalize and say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3556">TS</a>]

00:59:18   even if we had never seen these points [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3558">TS</a>]

00:59:20   and adjust seeing the numbers and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3560">TS</a>]

00:59:22   just knew based on experience but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3562">TS</a>]

00:59:23   Lockheed makes great planes or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3563">TS</a>]

00:59:25   you know blah blah walkie was probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3565">TS</a>]

00:59:26   gonna win no matter what but the fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3566">TS</a>]

00:59:28   that looks are you know acknowledged to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3568">TS</a>]

00:59:31   be an important factor in that thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3571">TS</a>]

00:59:32   there's no hope of aesthetics not being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3572">TS</a>]

00:59:36   a factor in something like programming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3576">TS</a>]

00:59:37   languages we're much less is at stake [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3577">TS</a>]

00:59:39   right I think this reveals you know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3579">TS</a>]

00:59:42   hope the people ever involved a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3582">TS</a>]

00:59:44   self-aware enough to realize that this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3584">TS</a>]

00:59:46   is this is a flaw in reasoning and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3586">TS</a>]

00:59:48   shouldn't go back to if it looks right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3588">TS</a>]

00:59:49   it flies right it's the old saying that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3589">TS</a>]

00:59:50   my Pappy says your Pappy was was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3590">TS</a>]

00:59:53   excusing his stupid illogical behavior [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3593">TS</a>]

00:59:56   with a catchy saying like that's an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3596">TS</a>]

00:59:58   acknowledgement of you being wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3598">TS</a>]

00:59:58   acknowledgement of you being wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3598">TS</a>]

01:00:00   you can't use that to support your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3600">TS</a>]

01:00:01   argument no if it looks right it does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3601">TS</a>]

01:00:03   not fly right things a lot of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3603">TS</a>]

01:00:04   that look awful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3604">TS</a>]

01:00:05   fly great and a lot of things that look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3605">TS</a>]

01:00:06   great do not fly at all it's not this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3606">TS</a>]

01:00:09   thing makes no sense so to bring that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3609">TS</a>]

01:00:11   back to programming languages yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3611">TS</a>]

01:00:14   people pick a lot based on their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3614">TS</a>]

01:00:15   aesthetics but you know it shouldn't be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3615">TS</a>]

01:00:20   a factor even though it is luckily with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3620">TS</a>]

01:00:23   programming languages there are so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3623">TS</a>]

01:00:24   other factors that even that dominate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3624">TS</a>]

01:00:26   looks that you know we can't even get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3626">TS</a>]

01:00:27   decent languages irregardless of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3627">TS</a>]

01:00:28   irregardless is not a word sorry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3628">TS</a>]

01:00:30   regardless of the looks of the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3630">TS</a>]

01:00:32   you can't we can't get a good one that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3632">TS</a>]

01:00:34   has all the features you want because of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3634">TS</a>]

01:00:35   other things that are involved but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3635">TS</a>]

01:00:37   know when we're left to you know have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3637">TS</a>]

01:00:39   petty squabbles about which one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3639">TS</a>]

01:00:41   crappy languages that were forced to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3641">TS</a>]

01:00:43   is better than the other we fall back on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3643">TS</a>]

01:00:45   looks and the gang gets back to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3645">TS</a>]

01:00:48   fewer non-work characters the better so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3648">TS</a>]

01:00:50   I don't like discussions about books of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3650">TS</a>]

01:00:52   languages because I think it's mostly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3652">TS</a>]

01:00:54   moot with programming language at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3654">TS</a>]

01:00:57   you can say all right maybe it has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3657">TS</a>]

01:00:59   nothing to do with looks but a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3659">TS</a>]

01:01:00   these know our characters I need to hold [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3660">TS</a>]

01:01:02   down shift to use and they're not you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3662">TS</a>]

01:01:04   know there have take my fingers off the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3664">TS</a>]

01:01:06   HOME key so they're like actual rational [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3666">TS</a>]

01:01:09   regions where you can talk about curly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3669">TS</a>]

01:01:11   braces are bad or square brackets are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3671">TS</a>]

01:01:14   bad or any other character that I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3674">TS</a>]

01:01:15   to stop typing stop typing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3675">TS</a>]

01:01:17   touch typing for and do a chord [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3677">TS</a>]

01:01:19   keystroke to get that's bad mmm so at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3679">TS</a>]

01:01:22   least you have that little thing in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3682">TS</a>]

01:01:23   word but the aesthetics of languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3683">TS</a>]

01:01:25   even though you can find that common [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3685">TS</a>]

01:01:26   thread of non mark characters being ugly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3686">TS</a>]

01:01:28   it really depends on what you're used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3688">TS</a>]

01:01:30   a lot to and where you're coming from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3690">TS</a>]

01:01:33   so with Perl I would imagine the number [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3693">TS</a>]

01:01:36   of characters that are most offensive to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3696">TS</a>]

01:01:37   everyone are things like the dollar sign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3697">TS</a>]

01:01:39   which is and all the variables no one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3699">TS</a>]

01:01:40   likes that the @ sign % that's you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3700">TS</a>]

01:01:44   the fact that every identifier has some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3704">TS</a>]

01:01:46   sort of prefix on it people don't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3706">TS</a>]

01:01:49   that now if you're coming from shell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3709">TS</a>]

01:01:50   programming that's not a big deal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3710">TS</a>]

01:01:51   because in shell success is the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3711">TS</a>]

01:01:52   thing it's like that's where the syntax [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3712">TS</a>]

01:01:53   comes from reading you know basic stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3713">TS</a>]

01:01:55   like that on it too but if you're coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3715">TS</a>]

01:01:57   from see where your identifiers are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3717">TS</a>]

01:01:59   basically unadorned you see that as no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3719">TS</a>]

01:02:01   eyes and you think it's ugly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3721">TS</a>]

01:02:02   no so getting into Perl specifically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3722">TS</a>]

01:02:08   it's got all the prefixes in the various [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3728">TS</a>]

01:02:10   people alike but another reason Pro [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3730">TS</a>]

01:02:12   comes in for the ugliness thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3732">TS</a>]

01:02:13   is that it was the first language to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3733">TS</a>]

01:02:15   first language to really become popular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3735">TS</a>]

01:02:17   that had made of regular expressions in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3737">TS</a>]

01:02:19   it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3739">TS</a>]

01:02:20   the programmers use obviously regular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3740">TS</a>]

01:02:21   expressions were out there and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3741">TS</a>]

01:02:22   command-line utilities like grep and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3742">TS</a>]

01:02:23   stuff like that but this was the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3743">TS</a>]

01:02:25   time that a real programmer quote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3745">TS</a>]

01:02:27   unquote was forced to see regular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3747">TS</a>]

01:02:29   expressions because he was doing this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3749">TS</a>]

01:02:30   program and see Recife sauce and some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3750">TS</a>]

01:02:31   dude came along and said I'm writing a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3751">TS</a>]

01:02:33   CGI application it's Perl and check this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3753">TS</a>]

01:02:34   out and then it's the first time they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3754">TS</a>]

01:02:36   see your deal with regular expressions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3756">TS</a>]

01:02:37   and what they think is a real program [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3757">TS</a>]

01:02:38   and not just like some shell thing sis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3758">TS</a>]

01:02:40   admin's do which is beneath them like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3760">TS</a>]

01:02:42   what the hell is that now as we all know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3762">TS</a>]

01:02:44   today regular expressions look like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3764">TS</a>]

01:02:47   for a reason it's a compact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3767">TS</a>]

01:02:48   representation of something that would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3768">TS</a>]

01:02:49   it would be much uglier and longer if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3769">TS</a>]

01:02:51   you had to write your own you know state [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3771">TS</a>]

01:02:53   machine or you know okay what you write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3773">TS</a>]

01:02:56   your own regular expression engine you'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3776">TS</a>]

01:02:57   basically end up either reinventing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3777">TS</a>]

01:02:59   regular expressions yourself badly or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3779">TS</a>]

01:03:00   writing a huge strings Betty spaghetti [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3780">TS</a>]

01:03:02   go to do a regular expressions to do so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3782">TS</a>]

01:03:04   regular expressions look kind of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3784">TS</a>]

01:03:06   line noise but they're they look like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3786">TS</a>]

01:03:08   that for a reason and they're useful and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3788">TS</a>]

01:03:10   every language nowadays has them and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3790">TS</a>]

01:03:12   recognizes that but Perl was the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3792">TS</a>]

01:03:13   so the impression of Perl is look at all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3793">TS</a>]

01:03:15   those freaking dollar signs and oh my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3795">TS</a>]

01:03:17   god this program is just one big regular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3797">TS</a>]

01:03:19   expression and I've never seen very good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3799">TS</a>]

01:03:20   friends boring I do not understand why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3800">TS</a>]

01:03:22   regular expressions are so inscrutable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3802">TS</a>]

01:03:24   to me it's just this horrible looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3804">TS</a>]

01:03:26   thing you know so your reputation you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3806">TS</a>]

01:03:30   know first impressions may mean a bit a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3810">TS</a>]

01:03:31   lot and the fact that Perl was the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3811">TS</a>]

01:03:33   one to come in with very discretions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3813">TS</a>]

01:03:35   it's like boom you're labeled the bosal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3815">TS</a>]

01:03:36   bit is flipped you are the language that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3816">TS</a>]

01:03:37   nobody can read and yet had the shell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3817">TS</a>]

01:03:40   like syntax and everything now it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3820">TS</a>]

01:03:43   interesting that this type of you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3823">TS</a>]

01:03:45   prejudice against languages with weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3825">TS</a>]

01:03:47   stuff is just to compare the end keyword [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3827">TS</a>]

01:03:52   in Ruby where you know instead of having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3832">TS</a>]

01:03:54   curly braces curly braces your bag is or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3834">TS</a>]

01:03:56   non word characters and you have to hold [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3836">TS</a>]

01:03:57   down shift to type them right but end is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3837">TS</a>]

01:04:01   a lot longer than curly braces isn't it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3841">TS</a>]

01:04:02   and the real programmers quote-unquote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3842">TS</a>]

01:04:04   from the olden days C C++ guys they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3844">TS</a>]

01:04:06   curly braces still yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3846">TS</a>]

01:04:08   curly braces weren't a big deal to them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3848">TS</a>]

01:04:09   ah and again it seems like bad Huffman [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3849">TS</a>]

01:04:12   coding to take probably the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3852">TS</a>]

01:04:14   commonly typed keyword in your entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3854">TS</a>]

01:04:16   language and in the case of Ruby and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3856">TS</a>]

01:04:18   make three characters long instead of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3858">TS</a>]

01:04:20   one even if you count the QWERTY coke is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3860">TS</a>]

01:04:23   to like hold down shift and hold down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3863">TS</a>]

01:04:24   the you know the the bracket key and is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3864">TS</a>]

01:04:27   still longer to type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3867">TS</a>]

01:04:28   so it seems like if you're going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3868">TS</a>]

01:04:30   like oh you know what's going to win is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3870">TS</a>]

01:04:32   aesthetics in terms of making me type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3872">TS</a>]

01:04:34   too much stuff going to win or or is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3874">TS</a>]

01:04:37   aesthetics in terms of non-word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3877">TS</a>]

01:04:38   character is going to win and pearl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3878">TS</a>]

01:04:40   basically didn't get dinged for having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3880">TS</a>]

01:04:42   curly braces and Ruby didn't really good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3882">TS</a>]

01:04:45   things for having the end keyword too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3885">TS</a>]

01:04:47   much but nowadays if you were to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3887">TS</a>]

01:04:49   what looks cleaner they're going to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3889">TS</a>]

01:04:50   Ruby looks cleaner even though it's got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3890">TS</a>]

01:04:52   these little end keywords littering up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3892">TS</a>]

01:04:53   the entire thing but it doesn't have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3893">TS</a>]

01:04:55   curly braces you're like well I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3895">TS</a>]

01:04:57   that end but I don't have to have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3897">TS</a>]

01:04:58   opening curly you know so people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3898">TS</a>]

01:05:02   deciding what it is that makes something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3902">TS</a>]

01:05:03   ugly or not whether it's Dena word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3903">TS</a>]

01:05:05   characters or having to type some long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3905">TS</a>]

01:05:07   thing that tends to flip-flop based on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3907">TS</a>]

01:05:09   the context and the same people have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3909">TS</a>]

01:05:11   different opinion when looking at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3911">TS</a>]

01:05:13   different languages at different times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3913">TS</a>]

01:05:15   so for for Perl you don't like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3915">TS</a>]

01:05:20   because ugly and you make the jokes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3920">TS</a>]

01:05:21   about it being a read only and stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3921">TS</a>]

01:05:22   like that but there are other things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3922">TS</a>]

01:05:24   that give it a bad reputation but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3924">TS</a>]

01:05:27   most people probably don't know about I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3927">TS</a>]

01:05:29   think my my description of why people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3929">TS</a>]

01:05:32   don't like Perl pretty much covers the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3932">TS</a>]

01:05:34   basis for anyone who it hasn't actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3934">TS</a>]

01:05:35   done any programming in Perl where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3935">TS</a>]

01:05:38   they'll say I don't like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3938">TS</a>]

01:05:39   it's ugly regular expressions are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3939">TS</a>]

01:05:41   unreadable the end more or less you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3941">TS</a>]

01:05:44   any actual more actual objections coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3944">TS</a>]

01:05:46   from someone who doesn't really write in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3946">TS</a>]

01:05:47   Perl against the Perl language yeah I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3947">TS</a>]

01:05:52   think I think it all really does come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3952">TS</a>]

01:05:53   down to just legibility how how it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3953">TS</a>]

01:05:57   it's a joke people in the chatroom or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3957">TS</a>]

01:05:59   even talking about it that it's it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3959">TS</a>]

01:06:01   tough language and also I mean it are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3961">TS</a>]

01:06:03   there you know people will complain and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3963">TS</a>]

01:06:04   I'm not sure that this isn't the knock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3964">TS</a>]

01:06:06   against the language directly but there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3966">TS</a>]

01:06:08   are the where where are the really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3968">TS</a>]

01:06:11   awesome frameworks written in Perl that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3971">TS</a>]

01:06:13   people should be using where where does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3973">TS</a>]

01:06:16   Perl move into the the next generational [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3976">TS</a>]

01:06:18   kind of thinking I mean sure it's great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3978">TS</a>]

01:06:20   if you want to you know write something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3980">TS</a>]

01:06:22   that will parse text and turn it into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3982">TS</a>]

01:06:24   HTML for you but what what are people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3984">TS</a>]

01:06:27   using Perl for in the real world why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3987">TS</a>]

01:06:29   doesn't it get the kind of attention [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3989">TS</a>]

01:06:31   outside of those uber geeky sysadmin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3991">TS</a>]

01:06:34   type circles I feel like the Perl got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3994">TS</a>]

01:06:39   this reputation based on the things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/3999">TS</a>]

01:06:40   we've already discussed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4000">TS</a>]

01:06:41   many years ago and that's when people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4001">TS</a>]

01:06:45   stopped looking at it right so the fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4005">TS</a>]

01:06:48   that you don't know the answers to any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4008">TS</a>]

01:06:49   of those questions doesn't mean that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4009">TS</a>]

01:06:50   there aren't answers it just means that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4010">TS</a>]

01:06:53   the latyout you have removed pearl from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4013">TS</a>]

01:06:56   your mind in the past and haven't looked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4016">TS</a>]

01:06:57   at it since and neither of any other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4017">TS</a>]

01:06:59   people so it doesn't come up anymore and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4019">TS</a>]

01:07:00   you're just assumed there's nothing else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4020">TS</a>]

01:07:01   it seems like a dinosaur of a language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4021">TS</a>]

01:07:04   now I'm partially I did truth be told I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4024">TS</a>]

01:07:07   do know the value of pearl I can write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4027">TS</a>]

01:07:09   some pearl code although probably not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4029">TS</a>]

01:07:12   very much anymore I certainly do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4032">TS</a>]

01:07:14   appreciate it as a language I'm kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4034">TS</a>]

01:07:16   playing devil's advocate here and I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4036">TS</a>]

01:07:18   playing up the stereotypes the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4038">TS</a>]

01:07:20   Imana because your representative oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4040">TS</a>]

01:07:23   well yeah and I think so and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4043">TS</a>]

01:07:24   that's kind of what I want to hear your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4044">TS</a>]

01:07:26   take would you would you be saying this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4046">TS</a>]

01:07:28   do you think if you weren't right I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4048">TS</a>]

01:07:30   you you write Perl eight hours a day is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4050">TS</a>]

01:07:32   that I mean or yeah yeah that's that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4052">TS</a>]

01:07:35   that's surprising so before I go and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4055">TS</a>]

01:07:38   tell you what's good about Perl I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4058">TS</a>]

01:07:39   gonna tell you the things that are bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4059">TS</a>]

01:07:41   about it that I think are much more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4061">TS</a>]

01:07:42   significant than the things we just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4062">TS</a>]

01:07:44   discussed okay because I think Pro got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4064">TS</a>]

01:07:46   dismissed long before but it got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4066">TS</a>]

01:07:49   dismissed by the mass market long before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4069">TS</a>]

01:07:52   the mass market discovery was truly bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4072">TS</a>]

01:07:54   about it all right so the things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4074">TS</a>]

01:07:57   are actually you know because I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4077">TS</a>]

01:07:58   that aesthetic stuff as evidenced by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4078">TS</a>]

01:08:00   objective-c like that that stuff you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4080">TS</a>]

01:08:02   get over like regular expressions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4082">TS</a>]

01:08:03   everyone's gotten over already so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4083">TS</a>]

01:08:05   regular expressions even though you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4085">TS</a>]

01:08:07   everyone will agree okay I get I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4087">TS</a>]

01:08:09   understand Regulus prices now I see why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4089">TS</a>]

01:08:10   they're useful and see why the line [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4090">TS</a>]

01:08:12   noise and they're in every freaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4092">TS</a>]

01:08:13   language so you can't pinpoint perl for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4093">TS</a>]

01:08:14   but still Perl gets the blame for being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4094">TS</a>]

01:08:16   I read all the other and the dollar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4096">TS</a>]

01:08:18   signs like the square brackets like if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4098">TS</a>]

01:08:20   there was some reason to keep using Perl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4100">TS</a>]

01:08:22   and it was really popular people get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4102">TS</a>]

01:08:23   over like you get over the square [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4103">TS</a>]

01:08:24   brackets maybe not you but most people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4104">TS</a>]

01:08:26   basically you know grin and bear with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4106">TS</a>]

01:08:28   the square brackets because of the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4108">TS</a>]

01:08:29   advantages and to just to respond to you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4109">TS</a>]

01:08:32   really quickly if if I was if I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4112">TS</a>]

01:08:35   serious about writing an iOS app or Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4115">TS</a>]

01:08:38   OS 10 app in and today I would have no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4118">TS</a>]

01:08:40   problem dealing with it I probably would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4120">TS</a>]

01:08:43   eventually get to like it and there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4123">TS</a>]

01:08:44   people who will say oh the objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4124">TS</a>]

01:08:46   is beautiful maybe it would grow on me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4126">TS</a>]

01:08:49   but certainly if if the choice is taken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4129">TS</a>]

01:08:52   away if if somebody said oh you can use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4132">TS</a>]

01:08:54   Mac Ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4134">TS</a>]

01:08:55   and just write Ruby code and of course I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4135">TS</a>]

01:08:57   would pick that first because that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4137">TS</a>]

01:08:59   where my comfort zone is and because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4139">TS</a>]

01:09:01   like that I'm comfortable with that but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4141">TS</a>]

01:09:03   yeah I mean you deal with it but is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4143">TS</a>]

01:09:06   what you're saying about pearly you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4146">TS</a>]

01:09:07   not saying that so so what I'm sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4147">TS</a>]

01:09:08   saying is that those little things I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4148">TS</a>]

01:09:10   think would not have been enough to keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4150">TS</a>]

01:09:11   people away what kept people away was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4151">TS</a>]

01:09:13   that it was the standard bearer for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4153">TS</a>]

01:09:15   things that freak people out about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4155">TS</a>]

01:09:16   syntax and aesthetics and people moved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4156">TS</a>]

01:09:18   on before they find the real problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4158">TS</a>]

01:09:20   here are the things that are actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4160">TS</a>]

01:09:20   problems with Perl the only people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4160">TS</a>]

01:09:22   know that these are actual problems with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4162">TS</a>]

01:09:23   Perl the people who have seriously been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4163">TS</a>]

01:09:25   developing with Perl because a those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4165">TS</a>]

01:09:26   people have gotten over or never been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4166">TS</a>]

01:09:28   affected by whatever you know Perl is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4168">TS</a>]

01:09:30   ugly thing like if they knew a regular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4170">TS</a>]

01:09:33   expressions before or they or they just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4173">TS</a>]

01:09:34   got used to them came to like them they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4174">TS</a>]

01:09:36   dealt with the dollar signs or they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4176">TS</a>]

01:09:37   actually came to like them or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4177">TS</a>]

01:09:39   those weren't the issues here the actual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4179">TS</a>]

01:09:40   issues of the Perl now the first big one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4180">TS</a>]

01:09:42   is that Perl is kind of like JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4182">TS</a>]

01:09:44   in that it doesn't do the things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4184">TS</a>]

01:09:48   people wanted to do with respect to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4188">TS</a>]

01:09:50   object systems so it gives you this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4190">TS</a>]

01:09:52   little mini construction kit from which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4192">TS</a>]

01:09:54   you can build what more traditional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4194">TS</a>]

01:09:57   object system might look like and many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4197">TS</a>]

01:10:00   people did they took this was Pro 5 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4200">TS</a>]

01:10:01   which introduced these object oriented [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4201">TS</a>]

01:10:03   mechanisms they took this little tool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4203">TS</a>]

01:10:04   kit and I said okay well I want objects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4204">TS</a>]

01:10:06   that look like this and they would write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4206">TS</a>]

01:10:07   a little the equivalent of like all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4207">TS</a>]

01:10:09   but you know prototype and jQuery on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4209">TS</a>]

01:10:11   stuff that they build their own little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4211">TS</a>]

01:10:12   object maker thing inside their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4212">TS</a>]

01:10:14   framework well everybody in Perl built [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4214">TS</a>]

01:10:16   their own little object maker thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4216">TS</a>]

01:10:17   all of them were slightly different and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4217">TS</a>]

01:10:19   all them are slightly incompatible and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4219">TS</a>]

01:10:21   you know over time people came up with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4221">TS</a>]

01:10:23   new ones we're gonna do two objects like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4223">TS</a>]

01:10:24   this so I'm going to do objects like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4224">TS</a>]

01:10:25   that I'm gonna do them like this and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4225">TS</a>]

01:10:26   here's how you build a class and my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4226">TS</a>]

01:10:27   thing I'm going to do this and I'm gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4227">TS</a>]

01:10:28   make a you know a source filter and I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4228">TS</a>]

01:10:31   gonna add new keywords and I'm going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4231">TS</a>]

01:10:32   do this syntax and I'm gonna make my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4232">TS</a>]

01:10:33   objects inside out you even know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4233">TS</a>]

01:10:34   that is no one outside Perl poly knows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4234">TS</a>]

01:10:36   what inside out objects are but uh all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4236">TS</a>]

01:10:38   sorts of you know I can make my objects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4238">TS</a>]

01:10:40   out of a race because it's faster and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4240">TS</a>]

01:10:41   I'm gonna make you know all crazy sorts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4241">TS</a>]

01:10:44   of things you know the problem was that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4244">TS</a>]

01:10:46   that leaves you with a huge library of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4246">TS</a>]

01:10:48   code everyone ever and everyone's using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4248">TS</a>]

01:10:50   their own little object construction kit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4250">TS</a>]

01:10:52   and they're either not compatible with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4252">TS</a>]

01:10:54   each other or it's like well why do I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4254">TS</a>]

01:10:55   have to have 17 different object [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4255">TS</a>]

01:10:57   construction kits in here in my in my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4257">TS</a>]

01:10:58   one application when I really just want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4258">TS</a>]

01:11:00   one this is something that should have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4260">TS</a>]

01:11:01   been built into the language now it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4261">TS</a>]

01:11:03   bad that it wasn't because you get the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4263">TS</a>]

01:11:05   situation where there's a million [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4265">TS</a>]

01:11:05   different object systems right but on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4265">TS</a>]

01:11:07   the other hand well I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4267">TS</a>]

01:11:08   I'll set it up for the part where I do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4268">TS</a>]

01:11:09   good stuff it's just that were the bed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4269">TS</a>]

01:11:11   there's not one way to do objects and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4271">TS</a>]

01:11:13   people did million of them is big Harry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4273">TS</a>]

01:11:15   messing continues to be a big hairy mess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4275">TS</a>]

01:11:16   to this day um the other thing is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4276">TS</a>]

01:11:22   Perl I guess we have to start getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4282">TS</a>]

01:11:25   into the good at this point because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4285">TS</a>]

01:11:27   think that's probably probably the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4287">TS</a>]

01:11:28   biggest bad thing about Perl and I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4288">TS</a>]

01:11:30   the implementation doom the Perl was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4290">TS</a>]

01:11:31   written is a big giant C program by one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4291">TS</a>]

01:11:34   dude and that one dude rewrote it uh but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4294">TS</a>]

01:11:38   really that's not you know Ruby has the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4298">TS</a>]

01:11:40   same problem to some degree of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4300">TS</a>]

01:11:41   being a big Harry C program under the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4301">TS</a>]

01:11:43   covers that has problems that's why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4303">TS</a>]

01:11:44   projects like JRuby and maglev and all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4304">TS</a>]

01:11:47   these other you know rubinius is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4307">TS</a>]

01:11:50   are you pronouncing all the other VMs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4310">TS</a>]

01:11:51   when when your language is defined [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4311">TS</a>]

01:11:53   basically by you know how does the Ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4313">TS</a>]

01:11:56   executable behave this Ruby C program [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4316">TS</a>]

01:11:59   written by a couple of guys that defines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4319">TS</a>]

01:12:01   my language like it's not there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4321">TS</a>]

01:12:02   language spec there's no language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4322">TS</a>]

01:12:03   standard it's like we wrote this program [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4323">TS</a>]

01:12:06   you feed its source code that we say is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4326">TS</a>]

01:12:08   Ruby source code and it executes it for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4328">TS</a>]

01:12:10   you your language can end up being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4330">TS</a>]

01:12:13   hamstrung by the interpreter and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4333">TS</a>]

01:12:15   true of Perl the summary slide because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4335">TS</a>]

01:12:16   any C program that's long lived get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4336">TS</a>]

01:12:18   scruffty or whatever in a certain point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4338">TS</a>]

01:12:19   you have trouble extending an advancing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4339">TS</a>]

01:12:21   language because the internals are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4341">TS</a>]

01:12:23   gross-looking and perl has been working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4343">TS</a>]

01:12:26   towards improving that and so is ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4346">TS</a>]

01:12:28   and so of all the other ones back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4348">TS</a>]

01:12:29   sometimes they say you know we're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4349">TS</a>]

01:12:30   even going to deal with the real Ruby VM [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4350">TS</a>]

01:12:32   we're gonna we're going to use a JVM and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4352">TS</a>]

01:12:33   write our own thing on top of it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4353">TS</a>]

01:12:34   just you know you got that whole thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4354">TS</a>]

01:12:36   going on but that's the other thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4356">TS</a>]

01:12:37   that's that hamstrings languages like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4357">TS</a>]

01:12:39   Perl Ruby hmm the good thing about all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4359">TS</a>]

01:12:43   this bad stuff is that the fact that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4363">TS</a>]

01:12:46   there was no objects just insulting and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4366">TS</a>]

01:12:47   everyone built their own little optics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4367">TS</a>]

01:12:49   system it basically became like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4369">TS</a>]

01:12:52   breeding ground or I'll I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4372">TS</a>]

01:12:54   you'd call like a Genesis project for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4374">TS</a>]

01:12:57   object systems alright so the first dude [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4377">TS</a>]

01:13:00   to write an object system and pearls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4380">TS</a>]

01:13:02   like to make it like C++ and then Java [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4382">TS</a>]

01:13:04   comes out and let's make some sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4384">TS</a>]

01:13:05   like Java type thing on top of it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4385">TS</a>]

01:13:07   then all these weird experiments that no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4387">TS</a>]

01:13:08   one even heard of with the inside out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4388">TS</a>]

01:13:09   stuff and trying to protect the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4389">TS</a>]

01:13:11   variables with closures because we don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4391">TS</a>]

01:13:13   have real variable privacy and designed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4393">TS</a>]

01:13:15   by contracts and all sorts of crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4395">TS</a>]

01:13:17   approaches like everything you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4397">TS</a>]

01:13:19   possibly imagine was tried and what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4399">TS</a>]

01:13:21   would happen is that the better one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4401">TS</a>]

01:13:22   would squish the old one so like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4402">TS</a>]

01:13:24   would be you know I made a quadric [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4404">TS</a>]

01:13:26   system no guy no I made a cooler one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4406">TS</a>]

01:13:27   everyone forget about that ol one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4407">TS</a>]

01:13:28   because it sucks and then I'll make him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4408">TS</a>]

01:13:30   cooler one and they were forget about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4410">TS</a>]

01:13:31   that one they try something else and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4411">TS</a>]

01:13:32   say okay I'm we're gonna make method [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4412">TS</a>]

01:13:34   makers and class generators and a whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4414">TS</a>]

01:13:36   class of things that just let you make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4416">TS</a>]

01:13:38   accessor methods in 50 different ways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4418">TS</a>]

01:13:40   and we're going to try to you know layer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4420">TS</a>]

01:13:41   on a type system and we're going to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4421">TS</a>]

01:13:43   tons and tons of experimentation which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4423">TS</a>]

01:13:45   you couldn't do if this the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4425">TS</a>]

01:13:47   came with like this is how you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4427">TS</a>]

01:13:49   objects which for the most part Ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4429">TS</a>]

01:13:50   comes with like here's how you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4430">TS</a>]

01:13:51   objects in Ruby here's how you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4431">TS</a>]

01:13:52   attributes getters and setters excuse me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4432">TS</a>]

01:13:55   Python was a little bit different in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4435">TS</a>]

01:13:56   that Python had like new objects and old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4436">TS</a>]

01:13:58   job jokes where they had one way to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4438">TS</a>]

01:14:00   objects and people said well this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4440">TS</a>]

01:14:01   great but there's some common things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4441">TS</a>]

01:14:02   that doesn't do so they had a new style [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4442">TS</a>]

01:14:04   object and then they had Python 3 right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4444">TS</a>]

01:14:06   Perl 5 just start up with that little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4446">TS</a>]

01:14:08   core of you know an object construction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4448">TS</a>]

01:14:10   since we've got a simple thing for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4450">TS</a>]

01:14:11   inheritance is a simple thinker method [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4451">TS</a>]

01:14:13   dispatch and a simple thing for you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4453">TS</a>]

01:14:15   the Ruby equivalent of the proto Kedar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4455">TS</a>]

01:14:17   method missing in Ruby and just go nuts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4457">TS</a>]

01:14:19   and people did go nuts ah what has led [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4459">TS</a>]

01:14:22   to is that I think the Perl has had and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4462">TS</a>]

01:14:26   continues to have the largest group of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4466">TS</a>]

01:14:28   developers doing quote-unquote advanced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4468">TS</a>]

01:14:30   stuff in a semi popular language if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4470">TS</a>]

01:14:32   want to do interesting advanced language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4472">TS</a>]

01:14:34   type stuff you can do it on top of pearl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4474">TS</a>]

01:14:37   because pearl doesn't decide how they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4477">TS</a>]

01:14:38   going to do it for you so for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4478">TS</a>]

01:14:40   pearl is the only language that I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4480">TS</a>]

01:14:41   of where as a community if you're in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4481">TS</a>]

01:14:44   pearl community it's basically been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4484">TS</a>]

01:14:46   agreed upon that roles are awesome and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4486">TS</a>]

01:14:47   better than regular all now do you even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4487">TS</a>]

01:14:49   know what roles are roles with in which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4489">TS</a>]

01:14:52   context explain it roles traits you read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4492">TS</a>]

01:14:55   the paper on traits that roles as pearls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4495">TS</a>]

01:14:57   name for them it's a different way of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4497">TS</a>]

01:14:58   doing instead of doing inheritance of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4498">TS</a>]

01:15:01   delegations different is a different way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4501">TS</a>]

01:15:03   of factoring out common code instead of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4503">TS</a>]

01:15:06   factoring out code in terms of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4506">TS</a>]

01:15:07   inheritance or mixing classes or you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4507">TS</a>]

01:15:09   you patching or whatever I mean this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4509">TS</a>]

01:15:12   something that most people haven't even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4512">TS</a>]

01:15:13   heard of unless you're like deep into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4513">TS</a>]

01:15:15   the Pearl community but at this point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4515">TS</a>]

01:15:16   with so much scratching going on in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4516">TS</a>]

01:15:18   Pearl community that you if you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4518">TS</a>]

01:15:20   asked to someone who's deep in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4520">TS</a>]

01:15:21   thrall community our role is good or bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4521">TS</a>]

01:15:22   they would say good and everyone else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4522">TS</a>]

01:15:25   that haven't even heard of it and this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4525">TS</a>]

01:15:25   is true of tons of stuff like when ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4525">TS</a>]

01:15:27   was coming out and all the pearl people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4527">TS</a>]

01:15:29   are bitter because rubies being popular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4529">TS</a>]

01:15:30   and everything i don't know if people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4530">TS</a>]

01:15:31   know this but have you noticed a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4531">TS</a>]

01:15:33   similarity ruby it's a gemstone pearl to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4533">TS</a>]

01:15:35   kind of a shiny thing really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4535">TS</a>]

01:15:36   was basically inspired by pearl with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4536">TS</a>]

01:15:39   like the edges shape that's the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4539">TS</a>]

01:15:42   don't like to think about that in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4542">TS</a>]

01:15:44   relationship but it's there you know you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4544">TS</a>]

01:15:47   wonder about those dollar signs in Ruby [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4547">TS</a>]

01:15:49   oh they're there people a little at sign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4549">TS</a>]

01:15:51   in front of it I know you don't use them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4551">TS</a>]

01:15:52   because they're in global and stuff but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4552">TS</a>]

01:15:53   they're there anyway we won't talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4553">TS</a>]

01:15:55   the lineage but they were like look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4555">TS</a>]

01:15:58   look at Ruby we can do this awesome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4558">TS</a>]

01:15:59   stuff look this is method missing thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4559">TS</a>]

01:16:01   and we can pass a block to a function [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4561">TS</a>]

01:16:03   and it gets like you can call it back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4563">TS</a>]

01:16:05   and it's this awesome and the pearl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4565">TS</a>]

01:16:07   people roll in their eyes and be like oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4567">TS</a>]

01:16:08   great so you discovered that isn't that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4568">TS</a>]

01:16:10   awesome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4570">TS</a>]

01:16:10   and we Anna this is stuff that's been in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4570">TS</a>]

01:16:12   Pearl is old hat and pearl like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4572">TS</a>]

01:16:15   autoload and you know dealing with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4575">TS</a>]

01:16:17   closures and stuff that it's like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4577">TS</a>]

01:16:19   was like a decade ago guys you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4579">TS</a>]

01:16:20   then it's the same way the list people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4580">TS</a>]

01:16:22   are and the small talk people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4582">TS</a>]

01:16:23   rolling their eyes at the Pearl people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4583">TS</a>]

01:16:26   go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipk1xbYg/4586">TS</a>]