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Hypercritical

13: The Tortoise and the Hare

 

00:00:00   [Music] [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/0">TS</a>]

00:00:01   you are listening to hypercritical this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1">TS</a>]

00:00:05   is a weekly talkshow ruminating on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5">TS</a>]

00:00:06   exactly what is wrong in the world of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/6">TS</a>]

00:00:08   Apple and related technologies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/8">TS</a>]

00:00:10   businesses nothing you see is so perfect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/10">TS</a>]

00:00:13   that it can't be complained and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/13">TS</a>]

00:00:15   criticized by my co-host John siracusa [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/15">TS</a>]

00:00:18   I'm Dan benjamin the show is made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/18">TS</a>]

00:00:19   possible by fresh books calm mailchimp [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/19">TS</a>]

00:00:22   calm which will tell you about in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/22">TS</a>]

00:00:24   little bit but this is episode number 13 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/24">TS</a>]

00:00:27   creepy 13 are you superstitious I am NOT [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/27">TS</a>]

00:00:32   in some cultures 13 is considered lucky [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/32">TS</a>]

00:00:36   a lot of people would say it's unlike [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/36">TS</a>]

00:00:39   them should we skip should we just call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/39">TS</a>]

00:00:40   this episode 14 and my culture 13 is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/40">TS</a>]

00:00:43   number epic 12 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/43">TS</a>]

00:00:48   good enough good enough for me you sold [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/48">TS</a>]

00:00:51   me how are you how's your week been been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/51">TS</a>]

00:00:56   good so far good we have a giant pile of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/56">TS</a>]

00:01:02   follow-up I'm still thinking about what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/62">TS</a>]

00:01:04   parts I'm going to trim don't trim any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/64">TS</a>]

00:01:06   of it I say we do the whole thing all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/66">TS</a>]

00:01:08   it the whole show would be follow up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/68">TS</a>]

00:01:09   then yeah maybe once and for all clear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/69">TS</a>]

00:01:12   it out start fresh no this wouldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/72">TS</a>]

00:01:14   clear it out this was just supposed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/74">TS</a>]

00:01:15   be one shows worth would it expanded but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/75">TS</a>]

00:01:17   I think I'll stop about halfway through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/77">TS</a>]

00:01:19   I want to start with stuff about Pixar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/79">TS</a>]

00:01:23   believe it or not it was the big shock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/83">TS</a>]

00:01:27   on last week's show yeah well it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/87">TS</a>]

00:01:29   shock I was shocked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/89">TS</a>]

00:01:30   yeah not a lot of feedback on that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/90">TS</a>]

00:01:32   surprisingly it brought out a few of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/92">TS</a>]

00:01:36   people who had previously had bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/96">TS</a>]

00:01:39   thoughts about Pixar but didn't feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/99">TS</a>]

00:01:41   safe expressing them so now once they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/101">TS</a>]

00:01:43   hear someone else say anything bad about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/103">TS</a>]

00:01:45   Pixar they will come out of the woodwork [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/105">TS</a>]

00:01:46   and tell you what they think is wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/106">TS</a>]

00:01:50   with Pixar right some of them agree but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/110">TS</a>]

00:01:51   and some of them I didn't but there was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/111">TS</a>]

00:01:53   one good one that stuck out to me and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/113">TS</a>]

00:01:56   was someone who brought up a point that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/116">TS</a>]

00:01:59   I thought about before but hadn't tied [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/119">TS</a>]

00:02:01   it in to what I said on last week's show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/121">TS</a>]

00:02:03   but he did in a connected all together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/123">TS</a>]

00:02:05   this was Kieran Healy he's usually in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/125">TS</a>]

00:02:06   the chatroom I don't know if he's there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/126">TS</a>]

00:02:07   today he was pointing out that most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/127">TS</a>]

00:02:10   Pixar movies have male lead characters I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/130">TS</a>]

00:02:14   think all of them do at this point and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/134">TS</a>]

00:02:16   there's very few female characters and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/136">TS</a>]

00:02:18   this is something you tend not to notice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/138">TS</a>]

00:02:20   and movies in general you know because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/140">TS</a>]

00:02:23   certain genres always have male [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/143">TS</a>]

00:02:24   characters and Pixar does kids movies in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/144">TS</a>]

00:02:26   her adventure movies and they always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/146">TS</a>]

00:02:27   have male leads right and that's not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/147">TS</a>]

00:02:29   big deal exactly until you know he had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/149">TS</a>]

00:02:32   his daughter say to him while watching [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/152">TS</a>]

00:02:35   the Cars movie why don't the girls get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/155">TS</a>]

00:02:37   to go on the racetrack and you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/157">TS</a>]

00:02:41   notice it until you hear something like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/161">TS</a>]

00:02:42   that and then you know you have this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/162">TS</a>]

00:02:44   emotional reaction where you're like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/164">TS</a>]

00:02:45   know what why don't the girls get to go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/165">TS</a>]

00:02:47   on the racetrack what's what exactly and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/167">TS</a>]

00:02:50   then you just look at all the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/170">TS</a>]

00:02:51   movies that Pixar does and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/171">TS</a>]

00:02:54   protagonist is always a male and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/174">TS</a>]

00:02:55   female characters are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/175">TS</a>]

00:02:57   you know important too strong that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/177">TS</a>]

00:02:59   main exception is Elastigirl from The [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/179">TS</a>]

00:03:00   Incredibles I guess well she's still a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/180">TS</a>]

00:03:02   secondary character it's about think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/182">TS</a>]

00:03:04   it's about the dad right but now see I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/184">TS</a>]

00:03:06   don't I don't think that Pixar any movie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/186">TS</a>]

00:03:09   studio needs to have some sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/189">TS</a>]

00:03:10   balance like you know that their lead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/190">TS</a>]

00:03:12   characters must exactly match the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/192">TS</a>]

00:03:13   percentages of people on the earth so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/193">TS</a>]

00:03:16   fifty-one percent women and X percent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/196">TS</a>]

00:03:17   this race in it that's that's ridiculous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/197">TS</a>]

00:03:20   the Pixar really does strike me as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/200">TS</a>]

00:03:21   male oriented or as you would say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/201">TS</a>]

00:03:24   orientated I would company or production [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/204">TS</a>]

00:03:28   company if you think about it name name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/208">TS</a>]

00:03:31   that the the movies that they've made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/211">TS</a>]

00:03:34   I'm not saying girls don't love these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/214">TS</a>]

00:03:36   these movies too but to me they feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/216">TS</a>]

00:03:38   they feel like boy movies yeah so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/218">TS</a>]

00:03:43   was the tie-in to last week I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/223">TS</a>]

00:03:45   talking about how they had a sort of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/225">TS</a>]

00:03:47   culture of engineering creativity yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/227">TS</a>]

00:03:50   and engineering cultures and engineers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/230">TS</a>]

00:03:51   in general it tends to be like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/231">TS</a>]

00:03:54   male-dominated culture so Kiran was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/234">TS</a>]

00:03:57   wondering are these two things connected [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/237">TS</a>]

00:03:59   is the sort of engineer lead culture of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/239">TS</a>]

00:04:03   Pixar it is that causing this sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/243">TS</a>]

00:04:08   male-dominated storyline phenomenon I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/248">TS</a>]

00:04:11   don't know if the two are connected but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/251">TS</a>]

00:04:12   it's it's an interesting to consider and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/252">TS</a>]

00:04:14   the comparison is with Miyazaki who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/254">TS</a>]

00:04:15   always comparing Pixar too and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/255">TS</a>]

00:04:17   Miyazaki's movies are I don't know if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/257">TS</a>]

00:04:20   it's majority but it seems like the vast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/260">TS</a>]

00:04:22   majority of the protagonists are female [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/262">TS</a>]

00:04:24   that's one of the reasons I have my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/264">TS</a>]

00:04:25   daughter watch all those movies because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/265">TS</a>]

00:04:27   they're their movies were the lead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/267">TS</a>]

00:04:29   character it's a female and I don't I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/269">TS</a>]

00:04:31   started her off on these movies and she [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/271">TS</a>]

00:04:33   you know only saw movies with female [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/273">TS</a>]

00:04:34   lead characters in the beginning of her [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/274">TS</a>]

00:04:36   life just to sort of normalize her on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/276">TS</a>]

00:04:38   the idea that yes you can do everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/278">TS</a>]

00:04:40   that the male characters can do there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/280">TS</a>]

00:04:43   no limitations based on your gender [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/283">TS</a>]

00:04:45   she's never said anything about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/285">TS</a>]

00:04:46   Pixar movies because she's seen them too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/286">TS</a>]

00:04:48   but it is a stark contrast between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/288">TS</a>]

00:04:51   rescue cultures now I have no idea why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/291">TS</a>]

00:04:52   Miyazaki pick female leads and have no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/292">TS</a>]

00:04:54   idea what pics are mostly picks male [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/294">TS</a>]

00:04:56   leads but the correlation is there I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/296">TS</a>]

00:05:00   thought it was interesting because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/300">TS</a>]

00:05:01   mean it's to balance things out like in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/301">TS</a>]

00:05:03   the universe that could be I mean it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/303">TS</a>]

00:05:06   could just be coincidence it could just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/306">TS</a>]

00:05:08   be you know that's the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/308">TS</a>]

00:05:10   the cookie crumbled for each of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/310">TS</a>]

00:05:12   stories and the other Pixar news I got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/312">TS</a>]

00:05:15   and feedback was all the other various [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/315">TS</a>]

00:05:17   Pixar projects because I was talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/317">TS</a>]

00:05:19   about what Pixar should do next and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/319">TS</a>]

00:05:21   their their culture of not letting bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/321">TS</a>]

00:05:22   things out the door so on that front a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/322">TS</a>]

00:05:26   couple people pointed out and I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/326">TS</a>]

00:05:27   heard this long ago but it forgotten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/327">TS</a>]

00:05:29   about it but people would remind me that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/329">TS</a>]

00:05:31   Pixar's movie Newt as in like a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/331">TS</a>]

00:05:34   lizard thing was canceled last year I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/334">TS</a>]

00:05:36   think it's the first time that I recall [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/336">TS</a>]

00:05:38   that a sort of high profile pics our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/338">TS</a>]

00:05:40   project that people knew about outside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/340">TS</a>]

00:05:42   the company was cancelled hmm and this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/342">TS</a>]

00:05:44   was supposed to be a movie about a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/344">TS</a>]

00:05:45   blue-footed Newt who was in a lab and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/345">TS</a>]

00:05:49   was the last one on earth but then they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/349">TS</a>]

00:05:50   found a female in the wild and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/350">TS</a>]

00:05:51   bring a female from the wild into him to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/351">TS</a>]

00:05:53   help to try to get them to mate the PR [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/353">TS</a>]

00:05:57   they showed for it had the male Newt in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/357">TS</a>]

00:05:58   the cage and he could see from his cage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/358">TS</a>]

00:06:00   a poster on the wall detailing the nine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/360">TS</a>]

00:06:02   steps of the mating ritual the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/362">TS</a>]

00:06:03   blue-footed Newt so he had been studying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/363">TS</a>]

00:06:05   that poster you know before when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/365">TS</a>]

00:06:07   female comes right but there was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/367">TS</a>]

00:06:08   coffee machine blocking the night step [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/368">TS</a>]

00:06:10   so it wasn't sure what it is but that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/370">TS</a>]

00:06:13   the premise of the movie the two of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/373">TS</a>]

00:06:14   end up escaping from the cage and going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/374">TS</a>]

00:06:16   out in the wild and fighting with each [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/376">TS</a>]

00:06:17   other yeah it's sort of like a romantic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/377">TS</a>]

00:06:19   comedy with newts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/379">TS</a>]

00:06:20   so it sounded interesting to me but that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/380">TS</a>]

00:06:22   was canned and so when you hear that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/382">TS</a>]

00:06:24   that's canned is that you know was it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/384">TS</a>]

00:06:25   cancelled because it was too you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/385">TS</a>]

00:06:28   ambitious and risque or was a cancel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/388">TS</a>]

00:06:30   just because it wasn't working out you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/390">TS</a>]

00:06:31   know so you don't you don't know based [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/391">TS</a>]

00:06:33   on the fact that it was canceled whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/393">TS</a>]

00:06:34   this is an example Pixar not taking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/394">TS</a>]

00:06:36   enough risks or this is an example fix [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/396">TS</a>]

00:06:37   are killing something that was just not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/397">TS</a>]

00:06:39   working out you know but it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/399">TS</a>]

00:06:41   interesting that those type of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/401">TS</a>]

00:06:42   are happening publicly now whereas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/402">TS</a>]

00:06:44   before you know the rewrites at Toy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/404">TS</a>]

00:06:46   Story 2 and stuff like that happened [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/406">TS</a>]

00:06:48   internally had only heard about them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/408">TS</a>]

00:06:49   after the fact like after the movie was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/409">TS</a>]

00:06:51   already out and successful Pixar's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/411">TS</a>]

00:06:53   actual next movie is called brave it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/413">TS</a>]

00:06:55   used to be called the bear in the bow or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/415">TS</a>]

00:06:57   the bow and the bear or something but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/417">TS</a>]

00:06:59   now it's called brave and this one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/419">TS</a>]

00:07:01   surprise has a female protagonist it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/421">TS</a>]

00:07:03   Scottish girl who's the daughter of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/423">TS</a>]

00:07:06   king and she goes off on some sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/426">TS</a>]

00:07:08   adventure so that's going to be their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/428">TS</a>]

00:07:10   actual next movie they'll be interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/430">TS</a>]

00:07:12   to see what that ends up like and then a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/432">TS</a>]

00:07:16   couple of people pointing me to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/436">TS</a>]

00:07:18   live-action projects that I alluded to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/438">TS</a>]

00:07:20   for the X Pixar people one of them was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/440">TS</a>]

00:07:24   Andrew Stanton who did a wall-e and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/444">TS</a>]

00:07:25   stuff he's going on to do a live-action [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/445">TS</a>]

00:07:27   movie not with Pixar called John Carter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/447">TS</a>]

00:07:30   of Mars based on a sci-fi character from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/450">TS</a>]

00:07:34   a long ago right and it's interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/454">TS</a>]

00:07:37   that first it's going to be rated pg-13 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/457">TS</a>]

00:07:39   so it's not going to be entirely kids [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/459">TS</a>]

00:07:42   filled and second it's live-action it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/462">TS</a>]

00:07:44   Disney but it's not Pixar so this sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/464">TS</a>]

00:07:47   of hemming and hawing about well is this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/467">TS</a>]

00:07:48   a is this a Pixar movie this is a spic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/468">TS</a>]

00:07:50   stars first live-action movie well not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/470">TS</a>]

00:07:52   really but it's you know as I understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/472">TS</a>]

00:07:54   but the Pixar people aren't working on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/474">TS</a>]

00:07:55   it but it's in Disney but not Disney [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/475">TS</a>]

00:07:56   owns Pixar so maybe this is a an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/476">TS</a>]

00:08:00   experiment to try to give the Pixar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/480">TS</a>]

00:08:02   treatment to a live-action movie and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/482">TS</a>]

00:08:03   it works out maybe Pixar could go off in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/483">TS</a>]

00:08:05   that direction but we'll see but I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/485">TS</a>]

00:08:07   it is interesting is going to be pg-13 I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/487">TS</a>]

00:08:08   think Incredibles with just PG right not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/488">TS</a>]

00:08:10   pg-13 I'm pretty sure was PG out I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/490">TS</a>]

00:08:13   look at that but no would you say did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/493">TS</a>]

00:08:16   you mention Ponyo we talked about last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/496">TS</a>]

00:08:19   week yeah I mean would you say that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/499">TS</a>]

00:08:21   main character was female it seemed like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/501">TS</a>]

00:08:23   that it was as much about her as it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/503">TS</a>]

00:08:26   about the little boy it it's tough to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/506">TS</a>]

00:08:30   say in some of these movies like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/510">TS</a>]

00:08:31   Princess Mononoke is another example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/511">TS</a>]

00:08:33   where it seems that the protagonist is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/513">TS</a>]

00:08:35   male but the title character and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/515">TS</a>]

00:08:38   main sort of semi antagonist are both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/518">TS</a>]

00:08:41   females and important females at Ponyo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/521">TS</a>]

00:08:44   saint-like Ponyo as the title character [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/524">TS</a>]

00:08:46   but she has very little dialogue and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/526">TS</a>]

00:08:49   open on and follow what you open up on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/529">TS</a>]

00:08:51   you but you follow the little boys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/531">TS</a>]

00:08:52   adventure so the little boy I feel like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/532">TS</a>]

00:08:54   the protagonist but Ponyo is obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/534">TS</a>]

00:08:56   important but she doesn't have much to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/536">TS</a>]

00:08:57   say during the movie and then is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/537">TS</a>]

00:08:58   the mother and everything a female [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/538">TS</a>]

00:09:00   characters in Miyazaki movies have no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/540">TS</a>]

00:09:02   limitations Rana and it just so happens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/542">TS</a>]

00:09:05   to be the clear lead and many of them is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/545">TS</a>]

00:09:07   female um so not only was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/547">TS</a>]

00:09:10   Incredibles PG but it was the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/550">TS</a>]

00:09:13   Pixar film to be PG right I remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/553">TS</a>]

00:09:15   that being a big deal so you know John [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/555">TS</a>]

00:09:17   Carter of Mars live-action pg-13 not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/557">TS</a>]

00:09:20   really Pixar but a Pixar guy at the helm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/560">TS</a>]

00:09:23   so it'll be interesting to see how that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/563">TS</a>]

00:09:24   turns out I have one other movie thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/564">TS</a>]

00:09:28   but it's it's a big rant maybe I'll tack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/568">TS</a>]

00:09:30   it on the end if we finish early but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/570">TS</a>]

00:09:32   doubt that will happen but the next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/572">TS</a>]

00:09:34   thing I wanted to talk to it which isn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/574">TS</a>]

00:09:35   actually follow up and I'm just sticking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/575">TS</a>]

00:09:36   stuff in here that aren't part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/576">TS</a>]

00:09:37   the main topic but it's that Open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/577">TS</a>]

00:09:39   Compute thing that happened this week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/579">TS</a>]

00:09:40   did you talk about that with anybody yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/580">TS</a>]

00:09:41   ah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/581">TS</a>]

00:09:42   Cristina Warren and I talked about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/582">TS</a>]

00:09:43   yesterday a little bit but the gist of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/583">TS</a>]

00:09:46   it is Open Compute is Facebook's attempt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/586">TS</a>]

00:09:50   I think this is my my gut feeling on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/590">TS</a>]

00:09:53   this is that this is their attempt to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/593">TS</a>]

00:09:55   sort of out Google Google by not only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/595">TS</a>]

00:09:58   saying we have the most awesome data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/598">TS</a>]

00:10:00   center ever but we're going to share all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/600">TS</a>]

00:10:03   of the details about how we did this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/603">TS</a>]

00:10:05   going to give away all the specs all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/605">TS</a>]

00:10:08   every everything you want to know about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/608">TS</a>]

00:10:11   making an awesome data center the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/611">TS</a>]

00:10:15   that Google has never really revealed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/615">TS</a>]

00:10:16   that we're going at which episode we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/616">TS</a>]

00:10:18   talked about that but which one was when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/618">TS</a>]

00:10:20   I was talking about what Google's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/620">TS</a>]

00:10:21   biggest advantages I think it was maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/621">TS</a>]

00:10:23   the one about Apple online stuff but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/623">TS</a>]

00:10:26   anyway I had said that Google's biggest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/626">TS</a>]

00:10:28   competitive advantage was its operations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/628">TS</a>]

00:10:30   was this data center operations and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/630">TS</a>]

00:10:31   hardware and software in that regard and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/631">TS</a>]

00:10:33   I said that they had basically like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/633">TS</a>]

00:10:34   ten-year head start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/634">TS</a>]

00:10:36   yeah what I meant by that was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/636">TS</a>]

00:10:37   starting from the time that they did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/637">TS</a>]

00:10:38   this not starting from now obviously so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/638">TS</a>]

00:10:40   there's some ways into their 10 year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/640">TS</a>]

00:10:42   head start the question is how far and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/642">TS</a>]

00:10:43   in the past episode I said that there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/643">TS</a>]

00:10:46   lots of open source stuff in this area [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/646">TS</a>]

00:10:50   that's like well Google won't give us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/650">TS</a>]

00:10:52   what we have so we'll make our own so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/652">TS</a>]

00:10:53   there's stuff like Hadoop or the various [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/653">TS</a>]

00:10:55   no SQL databases and stuff like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/655">TS</a>]

00:10:57   where they're they're open source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/657">TS</a>]

00:10:58   initiatives to try to do the stuff that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/658">TS</a>]

00:11:00   Google has but isn't sharing um [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/660">TS</a>]

00:11:02   and the lead that they have like when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/662">TS</a>]

00:11:07   say they have a 10 year lead I'm kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/667">TS</a>]

00:11:08   implying that the leads going to go away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/668">TS</a>]

00:11:09   that the open source stuff will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/669">TS</a>]

00:11:10   eventually catch up but mostly the open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/670">TS</a>]

00:11:12   source stuff I mentioned is just on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/672">TS</a>]

00:11:14   software side and the hardware side is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/674">TS</a>]

00:11:16   big part of this so I think Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/676">TS</a>]

00:11:19   Facebook makes its intentions clear this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/679">TS</a>]

00:11:20   is a quote right from their Open Compute [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/680">TS</a>]

00:11:22   website says by releasing Open Compute [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/682">TS</a>]

00:11:24   Project technologies is open hardware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/684">TS</a>]

00:11:26   our goal is developed to develop servers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/686">TS</a>]

00:11:28   and data centers following the model [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/688">TS</a>]

00:11:29   traditionally associated with open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/689">TS</a>]

00:11:31   source software projects they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/691">TS</a>]

00:11:32   basically saying we are doing with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/692">TS</a>]

00:11:33   hardware what people normally do with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/693">TS</a>]

00:11:37   open source software and that's that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/697">TS</a>]

00:11:39   clear indication that what Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/699">TS</a>]

00:11:41   feels is that they acknowledge that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/701">TS</a>]

00:11:43   Google has had the lead in this area in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/703">TS</a>]

00:11:45   data center operations and they think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/705">TS</a>]

00:11:48   the only way that they can or maybe the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/708">TS</a>]

00:11:50   way they can catch up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/710">TS</a>]

00:11:51   fastest possibly the only way they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/711">TS</a>]

00:11:53   ever catch them is to reframe the game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/713">TS</a>]

00:11:55   as everybody versus Google hmm so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/715">TS</a>]

00:11:58   they're going to be the everybody's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/718">TS</a>]

00:11:59   we could try to do it on our own Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/719">TS</a>]

00:12:01   doing our own Google has more money than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/721">TS</a>]

00:12:02   us they have a big head start it's gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/722">TS</a>]

00:12:03   be really tough to catch them but if we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/723">TS</a>]

00:12:04   just say everybody versus Google then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/724">TS</a>]

00:12:07   suddenly it's more of a fair fight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/727">TS</a>]

00:12:08   so trying to suit you know hasten the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/728">TS</a>]

00:12:10   demise of Google's lead in this area and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/730">TS</a>]

00:12:12   you'll know that the lead is gone like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/732">TS</a>]

00:12:14   if you're watching the space you'll know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/734">TS</a>]

00:12:15   the lead is gone when Google starts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/735">TS</a>]

00:12:17   opening up its data center hardware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/737">TS</a>]

00:12:18   stuff I don't think they would do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/738">TS</a>]

00:12:20   just just to have a response you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/740">TS</a>]

00:12:22   think they would do that just to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/742">TS</a>]

00:12:23   they need to yet but like because look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/743">TS</a>]

00:12:26   with it in the software world all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/746">TS</a>]

00:12:27   open-source sort of semi equivalents of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/747">TS</a>]

00:12:29   stuff that Google does based on Google's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/749">TS</a>]

00:12:31   white papers and their vague you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/751">TS</a>]

00:12:32   notions they're not coming out and say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/752">TS</a>]

00:12:34   okay you can have our whole software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/754">TS</a>]

00:12:36   infrastructure because you guys are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/756">TS</a>]

00:12:37   doing open-source equivalents they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/757">TS</a>]

00:12:39   happy to let Yahoo and everybody else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/759">TS</a>]

00:12:40   work on their open-source equivalents in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/760">TS</a>]

00:12:42   the various no sequel databases and all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/762">TS</a>]

00:12:44   that stuff and you know that Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/764">TS</a>]

00:12:47   has described blogging logging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/767">TS</a>]

00:12:49   infrastructure all sorts of projects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/769">TS</a>]

00:12:50   like that go on and Google says that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/770">TS</a>]

00:12:52   fine you guys go with that but we still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/772">TS</a>]

00:12:53   feel like our stuff is better and in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/773">TS</a>]

00:12:55   fact we're revising our stuff we're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/775">TS</a>]

00:12:56   sitting on our hands we are making the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/776">TS</a>]

00:12:59   version - of all our internal stuff or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/779">TS</a>]

00:13:01   whatever but no one was challenging them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/781">TS</a>]

00:13:03   in the hardware so now facebook is with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/783">TS</a>]

00:13:04   this initiative trying to formalize the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/784">TS</a>]

00:13:06   software effort and then saying we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/786">TS</a>]

00:13:08   going to try to compete with you on fard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/788">TS</a>]

00:13:10   we're by pulling everybody else into our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/790">TS</a>]

00:13:11   circle say we did a little bit of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/791">TS</a>]

00:13:13   working out everybody join in and see if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/793">TS</a>]

00:13:14   we can't as an entire you know industry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/794">TS</a>]

00:13:16   compete with this one company that won't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/796">TS</a>]

00:13:18   share its goodies and I think as soon as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/798">TS</a>]

00:13:21   you see Google dip its toe and say well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/801">TS</a>]

00:13:24   you know we're releasing X is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/804">TS</a>]

00:13:25   open-source so we're you know here's our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/805">TS</a>]

00:13:27   hardware specs or whatever that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/807">TS</a>]

00:13:29   basically end of their lead they will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/809">TS</a>]

00:13:30   acknowledging that it they've at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/810">TS</a>]

00:13:33   decided that the open-source stuff is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/813">TS</a>]

00:13:34   about to pass them by and they need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/814">TS</a>]

00:13:36   contribute now I don't know how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/816">TS</a>]

00:13:38   successful this efforts going to be in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/818">TS</a>]

00:13:39   that regard because the software part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/819">TS</a>]

00:13:42   that's kind of happening already but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/822">TS</a>]

00:13:44   happens slowly and organically and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/824">TS</a>]

00:13:46   hardware is harder because you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/826">TS</a>]

00:13:47   just get contributors to hardware like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/827">TS</a>]

00:13:49   you know randomly off the internet right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/829">TS</a>]

00:13:51   this minimum you know level of entry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/831">TS</a>]

00:13:54   that you have to the crosses how are you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/834">TS</a>]

00:13:57   a hardware engineer do you have hardware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/837">TS</a>]

00:13:58   to work with are you a company that does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/838">TS</a>]

00:13:59   this you know did you ever consider [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/839">TS</a>]

00:14:01   going into an outside of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/841">TS</a>]

00:14:03   house doing the hardware engineer so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/843">TS</a>]

00:14:06   majored in computer engineering which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/846">TS</a>]

00:14:07   doesn't have software any and is really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/847">TS</a>]

00:14:09   electrical engineering major and we do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/849">TS</a>]

00:14:11   go over hardware stuff but I did enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/851">TS</a>]

00:14:13   hardware stuff to know that I didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/853">TS</a>]

00:14:14   like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/854">TS</a>]

00:14:15   or rather that I like software better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/855">TS</a>]

00:14:16   not that I didn't like it but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/856">TS</a>]

00:14:17   definitely like software I could see you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/857">TS</a>]

00:14:19   in there with you know a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/859">TS</a>]

00:14:20   soldering iron kind of you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/860">TS</a>]

00:14:22   hunkering over one of those little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/862">TS</a>]

00:14:23   RadioShack things or the transistors in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/863">TS</a>]

00:14:26   it yeah you have to do that for class [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/866">TS</a>]

00:14:28   but like the people who are building [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/868">TS</a>]

00:14:30   these Facebook things are really more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/870">TS</a>]

00:14:32   systems integrators like their specking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/872">TS</a>]

00:14:33   out stuff to hardware manufacturers in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/873">TS</a>]

00:14:35   Taiwan who are you know producing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/875">TS</a>]

00:14:37   prototypes for them and they're getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/877">TS</a>]

00:14:38   and I think the interesting thing about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/878">TS</a>]

00:14:40   this joan is that there this is mostly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/880">TS</a>]

00:14:42   custom stuff this isn't off the rack so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/882">TS</a>]

00:14:45   yeah that's that's the big deal yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/885">TS</a>]

00:14:46   Google does all its custom stuff and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/886">TS</a>]

00:14:48   they said we're going to do our custom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/888">TS</a>]

00:14:49   stuff we're going to have a motherboard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/889">TS</a>]

00:14:50   made for us tailored to our exact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/890">TS</a>]

00:14:51   specifications we're going to build our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/891">TS</a>]

00:14:53   own case you know spec out where the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/893">TS</a>]

00:14:55   fans are going to go our own power [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/895">TS</a>]

00:14:56   supply the power supply is like half the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/896">TS</a>]

00:14:58   project is they you know design their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/898">TS</a>]

00:14:59   own power supply to be super efficient [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/899">TS</a>]

00:15:01   and run off AC and DC Google's power [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/901">TS</a>]

00:15:03   supplies I think have built in UBS's so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/903">TS</a>]

00:15:05   they don't to use a big UPS in the data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/905">TS</a>]

00:15:07   center it's all sorts of extremely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/907">TS</a>]

00:15:10   custom stuff here and it would be better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/910">TS</a>]

00:15:12   for Facebook to try to recoup those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/912">TS</a>]

00:15:13   costs by saying everybody let's share [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/913">TS</a>]

00:15:14   let's all work on these designs together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/914">TS</a>]

00:15:16   so we don't have to bear the full cost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/916">TS</a>]

00:15:17   of developing this we would like to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/917">TS</a>]

00:15:18   it as a community google says we'll just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/918">TS</a>]

00:15:20   bear the whole cost and you don't get to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/920">TS</a>]

00:15:22   share with us so I'll definitely be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/922">TS</a>]

00:15:24   watching that space because that will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/924">TS</a>]

00:15:27   I think it'll be a big indicator of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/927">TS</a>]

00:15:28   where Google sees itself right now I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/928">TS</a>]

00:15:30   haven't heard a thing from Google so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/930">TS</a>]

00:15:32   think there's a secure and what they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/932">TS</a>]

00:15:34   have and secure and what they're going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/934">TS</a>]

00:15:35   to do next the worst thing I could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/935">TS</a>]

00:15:36   imagine would happen would be that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/936">TS</a>]

00:15:37   Google would say oh yeah here you go you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/937">TS</a>]

00:15:39   want GFS and all this cool stuff we have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/939">TS</a>]

00:15:41   internally here's the version one of all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/941">TS</a>]

00:15:42   those things but internally they using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/942">TS</a>]

00:15:44   version 2 that's like super lame I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/944">TS</a>]

00:15:47   think that would be an indication of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/947">TS</a>]

00:15:48   anything except for ill-will on Google's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/948">TS</a>]

00:15:50   part where they're saying we're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/950">TS</a>]

00:15:51   going to give you the good good stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/951">TS</a>]

00:15:52   but if you want to use but we were using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/952">TS</a>]

00:15:54   five years ago go nuts guys it's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/954">TS</a>]

00:15:57   better than you have now oh where are we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/957">TS</a>]

00:16:02   so I got three more little follow-up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/962">TS</a>]

00:16:06   things but I think I'm going to skip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/966">TS</a>]

00:16:07   them and maybe we'll circle back if we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/967">TS</a>]

00:16:09   have time at the end are you sure ah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/969">TS</a>]

00:16:13   we're about 20 something minutes in well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/973">TS</a>]

00:16:16   so here here are my three things and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/976">TS</a>]

00:16:18   can pick one of them if you want to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/978">TS</a>]

00:16:19   it yeah let's let's pick one yeah so one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/979">TS</a>]

00:16:22   is on you're going to plan I'm going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/982">TS</a>]

00:16:23   complain about George Lucas and Star [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/983">TS</a>]

00:16:25   Wars briefly oh that's a whole show I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/985">TS</a>]

00:16:27   know but it's a very it's a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/987">TS</a>]

00:16:29   specific focus that's number two number [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/989">TS</a>]

00:16:32   two is that Quick Pick app that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/992">TS</a>]

00:16:34   rejected from the Mac App Store this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/994">TS</a>]

00:16:36   week did you see that story I did not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/996">TS</a>]

00:16:38   see that story so maybe that be good was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/998">TS</a>]

00:16:39   another complaining about a projection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/999">TS</a>]

00:16:41   story and number three is Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1001">TS</a>]

00:16:44   contacts and how they're annoying and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1004">TS</a>]

00:16:46   the options to make them less annoying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1006">TS</a>]

00:16:47   and I want to do that one I would say I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1007">TS</a>]

00:16:50   would say the first one or the second [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1010">TS</a>]

00:16:52   one but I uh my gut says go with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1012">TS</a>]

00:16:54   first one you want to hit okay I'll do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1014">TS</a>]

00:16:56   the Star Wars one this is not your eyes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1016">TS</a>]

00:17:00   I got a whole show about Star Wars I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1020">TS</a>]

00:17:02   don't know how tech related this is but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1022">TS</a>]

00:17:04   I doubt any of our listeners have ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1024">TS</a>]

00:17:05   seen Star Wars so this keeps coming up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1025">TS</a>]

00:17:08   in my trial I think the thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1028">TS</a>]

00:17:09   triggered this same anger and me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1029">TS</a>]

00:17:12   recently was seeing the the blu-ray [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1032">TS</a>]

00:17:13   release of Star Wars and stuff that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1033">TS</a>]

00:17:16   being advertised now and it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1036">TS</a>]

00:17:17   making me angry about the stuff again so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1037">TS</a>]

00:17:20   everyone knows what the problem is with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1040">TS</a>]

00:17:22   Star Wars a certain set of fans want the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1042">TS</a>]

00:17:25   original versions without the special [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1045">TS</a>]

00:17:27   effects added you know they want the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1047">TS</a>]

00:17:28   cleaned up you know removing the mat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1048">TS</a>]

00:17:30   lines from the optical effects on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1050">TS</a>]

00:17:33   original fly fighter doesn't look like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1053">TS</a>]

00:17:35   it's on a piece of black cardboard as it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1055">TS</a>]

00:17:37   flies across that's that's deemed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1057">TS</a>]

00:17:38   acceptable because it didn't really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1058">TS</a>]

00:17:40   change the content of the movie but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1060">TS</a>]

00:17:41   anything where you start changing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1061">TS</a>]

00:17:42   content of the MODY adding scenes adding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1062">TS</a>]

00:17:44   new elements that weren't there people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1064">TS</a>]

00:17:45   don't like that and Lucas as we know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1065">TS</a>]

00:17:46   doesn't want to release those movies now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1066">TS</a>]

00:17:49   there was this URL that went around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1069">TS</a>]

00:17:50   sometime last year called the secret [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1070">TS</a>]

00:17:51   history of Star Wars and it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1071">TS</a>]

00:17:53   section it's actually a book now I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1073">TS</a>]

00:17:55   link to the site in the show notes but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1075">TS</a>]

00:17:56   but the section of that book was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1076">TS</a>]

00:17:57   specifically about the original print [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1077">TS</a>]

00:18:00   itself and one of the excuses that Lucas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1080">TS</a>]

00:18:03   and company have used at various times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1083">TS</a>]

00:18:05   is that even if you wanted the original [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1085">TS</a>]

00:18:06   trilogy thing oh that that film doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1086">TS</a>]

00:18:08   exist anymore so all that exists is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1088">TS</a>]

00:18:11   special edition so tough luck and I will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1091">TS</a>]

00:18:14   link to this thing about the film stock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1094">TS</a>]

00:18:16   of the you know saving the Star Wars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1096">TS</a>]

00:18:18   film and how they cut pieces out of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1098">TS</a>]

00:18:20   original negatives to make the special [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1100">TS</a>]

00:18:21   editions and what you would what would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1101">TS</a>]

00:18:22   be involved in having to try to piece [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1102">TS</a>]

00:18:25   together a digital copy of the original [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1105">TS</a>]

00:18:27   Algie without the special edition [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1107">TS</a>]

00:18:28   effects in it and this thing goes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1108">TS</a>]

00:18:29   through you know it's another excuse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1109">TS</a>]

00:18:31   Lucas's use first he said like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1111">TS</a>]

00:18:32   footage doesn't exist and secondly said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1112">TS</a>]

00:18:34   well it to make it exist we would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1114">TS</a>]

00:18:36   to read Italy scan and restore all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1116">TS</a>]

00:18:38   little bits and pieces of various film [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1118">TS</a>]

00:18:40   it would cost like 20 million dollars or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1120">TS</a>]

00:18:42   something like that now it's obvious the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1122">TS</a>]

00:18:45   real reason why he doesn't want these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1125">TS</a>]

00:18:47   things he just doesn't want it he says [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1127">TS</a>]

00:18:48   this is my version of the movie I it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1128">TS</a>]

00:18:50   my movie I get to decide what it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1130">TS</a>]

00:18:51   that's it but every time he gives a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1131">TS</a>]

00:18:53   financial excuse or an excuse about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1133">TS</a>]

00:18:56   non-existence of the negatives which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1136">TS</a>]

00:18:58   basically disproved by this this saving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1138">TS</a>]

00:19:00   Star Wars thing from the secret history [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1140">TS</a>]

00:19:02   of Star Wars I think about the unique [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1142">TS</a>]

00:19:05   situation that Star Wars is in where a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1145">TS</a>]

00:19:08   lot of times there's something a bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1148">TS</a>]

00:19:10   of fans want like some hardcore fan base [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1150">TS</a>]

00:19:12   says I want to really want the X version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1152">TS</a>]

00:19:14   of Y and I just want to have this thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1154">TS</a>]

00:19:16   or whatever and then there's the reality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1156">TS</a>]

00:19:18   what it would take to do that well you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1158">TS</a>]

00:19:19   know it cost 10 million dollars and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1159">TS</a>]

00:19:21   there's only 100 people or 100,000 or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1161">TS</a>]

00:19:23   whatever you know you won't recoup your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1163">TS</a>]

00:19:24   cost because it costs a lot of money to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1164">TS</a>]

00:19:26   do this work and we simply can't afford [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1166">TS</a>]

00:19:27   to do this work for such a small subset [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1167">TS</a>]

00:19:28   of fans and this is very true about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1168">TS</a>]

00:19:30   really small narrow interest stuff like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1170">TS</a>]

00:19:33   maybe some particular anime thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1173">TS</a>]

00:19:34   you could never justify the cost of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1174">TS</a>]

00:19:35   doing it now Star Wars you can debate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1175">TS</a>]

00:19:37   how many people would buy in a real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1177">TS</a>]

00:19:39   original trilogy you know blu-ray for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1179">TS</a>]

00:19:41   example and maybe it's like it seems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1181">TS</a>]

00:19:44   like a lot in our circles because all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1184">TS</a>]

00:19:45   our friends want that but in the grand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1185">TS</a>]

00:19:47   scheme of things it's not enough to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1187">TS</a>]

00:19:48   recoup the cost but Star Wars is in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1188">TS</a>]

00:19:49   unique position because the people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1189">TS</a>]

00:19:52   want that original trilogy cut of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1192">TS</a>]

00:19:55   film have a humongous and I'm just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1195">TS</a>]

00:19:58   supposing here but I think you'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1198">TS</a>]

00:20:00   probably agree with me have a humongous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1200">TS</a>]

00:20:01   overlap with the people who have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1201">TS</a>]

00:20:04   expertise and access to the equipment to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1204">TS</a>]

00:20:07   do the work for free right probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1207">TS</a>]

00:20:09   right of all the people in the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1209">TS</a>]

00:20:11   who'd want the original Star Wars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1211">TS</a>]

00:20:13   trilogy how many of them do you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1213">TS</a>]

00:20:14   work in the in the film scanning special [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1214">TS</a>]

00:20:17   effects industry right who have access [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1217">TS</a>]

00:20:20   to the film scanners who are experts in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1220">TS</a>]

00:20:22   this area who would do the work for free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1222">TS</a>]

00:20:24   in a heartbeat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1224">TS</a>]

00:20:25   like if Lucas went out I said of course [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1225">TS</a>]

00:20:26   if we want to restore the original [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1226">TS</a>]

00:20:28   version of Star Wars and put out a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1228">TS</a>]

00:20:29   blu-ray but we don't want to pay a cent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1229">TS</a>]

00:20:31   for labor to do the work right it would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1231">TS</a>]

00:20:32   get not only would they get volunteers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1232">TS</a>]

00:20:34   at the bhasu they will get volunteers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1234">TS</a>]

00:20:35   who are the very best in their field at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1235">TS</a>]

00:20:38   what they do right willing to volunteer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1238">TS</a>]

00:20:39   their time to do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1239">TS</a>]

00:20:41   and I just can't even think about you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1241">TS</a>]

00:20:44   know because people are clamoring to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1244">TS</a>]

00:20:46   this I bet it you know if you put out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1246">TS</a>]

00:20:48   that call in the first day you would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1248">TS</a>]

00:20:50   have the best possible team you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1250">TS</a>]

00:20:53   assemble and it's willing to work for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1253">TS</a>]

00:20:55   free and so any money that you made off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1255">TS</a>]

00:20:58   this at all like the whole thing for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1258">TS</a>]

00:21:00   free Luke's wouldn't have to be involved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1260">TS</a>]

00:21:01   at all any money you made at us at all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1261">TS</a>]

00:21:03   all you'd have to recoup is the cost of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1263">TS</a>]

00:21:04   the ten cents that would never happen I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1264">TS</a>]

00:21:06   never do that but like it is it's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1266">TS</a>]

00:21:10   most unique situation where what else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1270">TS</a>]

00:21:12   you gonna get this for free what else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1272">TS</a>]

00:21:13   you gonna say it's a zero risk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1273">TS</a>]

00:21:15   proposition George we will do all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1275">TS</a>]

00:21:17   work for free or we will do a better job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1277">TS</a>]

00:21:18   on this than you the people who made the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1278">TS</a>]

00:21:20   you know the actual Brewers because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1280">TS</a>]

00:21:22   people working on this will be working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1282">TS</a>]

00:21:23   at it out of the goodness of their heart [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1283">TS</a>]

00:21:25   and they will use like all their skills [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1285">TS</a>]

00:21:27   and all their powers to quote from The [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1287">TS</a>]

00:21:28   Godfather which we should talk about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1288">TS</a>]

00:21:30   we'll talk we'll talk about that yeah to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1290">TS</a>]

00:21:33   make this the best blu-ray release ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1293">TS</a>]

00:21:35   in the history of the universe and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1295">TS</a>]

00:21:38   they happen to leak a bunch of digital [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1298">TS</a>]

00:21:41   scans onto the internet during the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1301">TS</a>]

00:21:42   process then you know oh well but I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1302">TS</a>]

00:21:46   get angry when I think about that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1306">TS</a>]

00:21:48   guess maybe someday Lucas will be gone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1308">TS</a>]

00:21:50   and someone else will think about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1310">TS</a>]

00:21:52   but it just bothers me that all this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1312">TS</a>]

00:21:55   tied up in economics when we're in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1315">TS</a>]

00:21:57   situation you're weakened Alex doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1317">TS</a>]

00:21:58   have to matter at all so that was my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1318">TS</a>]

00:22:01   Star Wars thing I don't know how it got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1321">TS</a>]

00:22:02   triggered and how I think I was just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1322">TS</a>]

00:22:03   thinking about movies and seeing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1323">TS</a>]

00:22:04   Star Wars blu-ray go by on the internet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1324">TS</a>]

00:22:07   and people talking about it and I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1327">TS</a>]

00:22:08   got angry all over again about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1328">TS</a>]

00:22:12   that's not even today's topic and before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1332">TS</a>]

00:22:14   we say what today's topic is John this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1334">TS</a>]

00:22:17   is your cue to unplug your microphone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1337">TS</a>]

00:22:19   because they're doing are like our first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1339">TS</a>]

00:22:20   aww answer and and this is a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1340">TS</a>]

00:22:23   sponsor this is a I love it when I get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1343">TS</a>]

00:22:25   to talk a lot about my personal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1345">TS</a>]

00:22:27   experience with the sponsor and this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1347">TS</a>]

00:22:28   this is one of them FreshBooks comm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1348">TS</a>]

00:22:30   we've had them on the show before and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1350">TS</a>]

00:22:33   was using them a little bit but I hadn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1353">TS</a>]

00:22:36   really made the switch from QuickBooks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1356">TS</a>]

00:22:38   because my accountant was getting say no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1358">TS</a>]

00:22:40   no you know QuickBooks is just easier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1360">TS</a>]

00:22:42   it's easier for us I finally just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1362">TS</a>]

00:22:44   I got to say I said no I'm done with I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1364">TS</a>]

00:22:47   done with QuickBooks I can't hit it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1367">TS</a>]

00:22:49   horrible I need a way I need something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1369">TS</a>]

00:22:51   that's more modern I need something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1371">TS</a>]

00:22:53   takes the headache out of invoicing be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1373">TS</a>]

00:22:55   I hate it I hate the whole invoicing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1375">TS</a>]

00:22:57   process item night it's not fun trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1377">TS</a>]

00:22:59   to keep track of have they seen the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1379">TS</a>]

00:23:02   invoice even have they paid it where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1382">TS</a>]

00:23:04   where is it in the process well this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1384">TS</a>]

00:23:06   the this is the beautiful thing about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1386">TS</a>]

00:23:07   fresh books is that when you send an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1387">TS</a>]

00:23:10   invoice to a customer to a client you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1390">TS</a>]

00:23:14   know instantly if they've seen it forget [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1394">TS</a>]

00:23:16   if they've paid it yet it shows you that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1396">TS</a>]

00:23:18   of course well I mean it's it it shows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1398">TS</a>]

00:23:21   you they've seen they have seen the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1401">TS</a>]

00:23:23   invoice it's great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1403">TS</a>]

00:23:24   tons of integration you can set up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1404">TS</a>]

00:23:25   recurring payments and and all kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1405">TS</a>]

00:23:27   stuff and it just takes the headache out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1407">TS</a>]

00:23:29   of this custom logos everything you name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1409">TS</a>]

00:23:31   it and so here's what they're doing for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1411">TS</a>]

00:23:33   hypercritical listeners every week they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1413">TS</a>]

00:23:37   are going to give away a birthday cake [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1417">TS</a>]

00:23:40   even if it's not your birthday you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1420">TS</a>]

00:23:42   still get this they're going to give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1422">TS</a>]

00:23:44   away a cake to a hypercritical listener [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1424">TS</a>]

00:23:47   every week so you go to fresh books calm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1427">TS</a>]

00:23:49   you sign up and when you sign up by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1429">TS</a>]

00:23:52   way that's free it doesn't cost anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1432">TS</a>]

00:23:53   to sign up you can even send invoices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1433">TS</a>]

00:23:55   and stuff for free you don't you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1435">TS</a>]

00:23:58   have to pay anything to trip but please [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1438">TS</a>]

00:24:00   do try it out once you get in there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1440">TS</a>]

00:24:01   don't just sign up to get the cake trust [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1441">TS</a>]

00:24:02   me you're going to love this once you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1442">TS</a>]

00:24:04   get in there you put in as you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1444">TS</a>]

00:24:06   filling up hypercritical that's where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1446">TS</a>]

00:24:07   you heard about the show and you will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1447">TS</a>]

00:24:10   eligible to get one of these free K [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1450">TS</a>]

00:24:12   every week they're sending out a cake so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1452">TS</a>]

00:24:15   go check them out fresh books calm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1455">TS</a>]

00:24:17   you're gonna love it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1457">TS</a>]

00:24:18   did you plug back in John are you back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1458">TS</a>]

00:24:20   I'm back you know you mentioned you had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1460">TS</a>]

00:24:22   ditched QuickBooks ya know every word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1462">TS</a>]

00:24:25   reminded me of another legacy financial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1465">TS</a>]

00:24:27   program that a lot of people are stuck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1467">TS</a>]

00:24:28   on each tree so I've got a I use quicken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1468">TS</a>]

00:24:32   here and I use whatever the last version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1472">TS</a>]

00:24:34   of quicken was for Mac OS 10 before they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1474">TS</a>]

00:24:37   went off on this weird quicken life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1477">TS</a>]

00:24:39   financial whatever stuff but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1479">TS</a>]

00:24:42   PowerPC only I think it's like quicken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1482">TS</a>]

00:24:44   2007 or something it's an ancient [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1484">TS</a>]

00:24:45   program it's PowerPC only and I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1485">TS</a>]

00:24:48   realizing as I'm playing with lion and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1488">TS</a>]

00:24:50   everything that it's going to be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1490">TS</a>]

00:24:53   problem because lion doesn't seem to run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1493">TS</a>]

00:24:54   Mac OS R PowerPC apps and I thought I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1494">TS</a>]

00:24:59   have no PowerPC apps left but once you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1499">TS</a>]

00:25:01   can't run them at all you realize how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1501">TS</a>]

00:25:03   many you rely on so what the heck am I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1503">TS</a>]

00:25:04   going to do want to upgrade the Lion am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1504">TS</a>]

00:25:06   I just gonna keep one machine back and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1506">TS</a>]

00:25:08   run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1508">TS</a>]

00:25:09   working on it like there's no good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1509">TS</a>]

00:25:11   alternative to it I wish there was I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1511">TS</a>]

00:25:13   know there are a lot of alternatives to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1513">TS</a>]

00:25:15   quicken but like if you're all your data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1515">TS</a>]

00:25:16   is in quicken and you know and you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1516">TS</a>]

00:25:18   to keep I'd rather just keep using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1518">TS</a>]

00:25:20   quicken because it's what we know how to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1520">TS</a>]

00:25:21   use it works fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1521">TS</a>]

00:25:23   the fact that it's PowerPC doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1523">TS</a>]

00:25:24   bother me I don't want to go through the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1524">TS</a>]

00:25:26   whole hassle of having to upgrade to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1526">TS</a>]

00:25:27   some other program even if some program [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1527">TS</a>]

00:25:30   says that it imports quicken files and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1530">TS</a>]

00:25:32   everything is just a hassle you know oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1532">TS</a>]

00:25:34   that that's that's gotta meet the press' [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1534">TS</a>]

00:25:37   that is QuickBooks for the Mac PowerPC [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1537">TS</a>]

00:25:39   or is it Intel I don't quick-quick books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1539">TS</a>]

00:25:42   is Intel well at least the people in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1542">TS</a>]

00:25:46   better situation with that but yeah hero [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1546">TS</a>]

00:25:47   financial program seems like one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1547">TS</a>]

00:25:49   those I don't want I don't want to do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1549">TS</a>]

00:25:51   I don't want to do it anymore I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1551">TS</a>]

00:25:53   want to have to have this this ancient [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1553">TS</a>]

00:25:54   apt of the terrible yet face that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1554">TS</a>]

00:25:56   what's been happening is the web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1556">TS</a>]

00:25:57   services are taking over a lot of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1557">TS</a>]

00:25:59   apps that were financial although the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1559">TS</a>]

00:26:02   wigs a lot of people out like putting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1562">TS</a>]

00:26:03   financial information in the web but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1563">TS</a>]

00:26:05   it's clearly the way all these type of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1565">TS</a>]

00:26:08   apps are going you know so maybe that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1568">TS</a>]

00:26:10   the solution maybe I'm not they just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1570">TS</a>]

00:26:12   they already bought mint so I can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1572">TS</a>]

00:26:15   really get a way to Roy from Intuit for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1575">TS</a>]

00:26:17   my fan it says I don't know I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1577">TS</a>]

00:26:18   depressed about that all right all right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1578">TS</a>]

00:26:20   what's the topic you don't even know but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1580">TS</a>]

00:26:23   we didn't talk about it all I added the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1583">TS</a>]

00:26:25   30 minutes into the show let's hear the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1585">TS</a>]

00:26:27   topic yeah so this is one you kept [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1587">TS</a>]

00:26:29   picking yes weeks and we never did this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1589">TS</a>]

00:26:32   is this is Apple's philosophy and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1592">TS</a>]

00:26:33   practice of UI consistency across the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1593">TS</a>]

00:26:35   years I've been wanting this one I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1595">TS</a>]

00:26:37   didn't think I had much to say on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1597">TS</a>]

00:26:39   but when I was doing notes for it I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1599">TS</a>]

00:26:40   guess I do I don't know there's so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1600">TS</a>]

00:26:43   to talk about I mean how far back do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1603">TS</a>]

00:26:45   want to go that's the real that's how I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1605">TS</a>]

00:26:46   always start that's why I'm not having a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1606">TS</a>]

00:26:48   lot to say that I gotta go back there go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1608">TS</a>]

00:26:49   back then beginning to talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1609">TS</a>]

00:26:50   anything you know cuz it keep in mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1610">TS</a>]

00:26:52   that even though probably I'm guessing a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1612">TS</a>]

00:26:54   lot of our listeners or Mac users they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1614">TS</a>]

00:26:56   may not have been Mac users three years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1616">TS</a>]

00:27:00   ago or five years ago or ten years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1620">TS</a>]

00:27:01   or in 1984 like we were not have been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1621">TS</a>]

00:27:05   alive in 1984 very true it's all feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1625">TS</a>]

00:27:07   old together that's all let's all join [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1627">TS</a>]

00:27:08   hands and you know sing songs about our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1628">TS</a>]

00:27:13   misspent youth but anyway the point is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1633">TS</a>]

00:27:15   there are a lot of people who never even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1635">TS</a>]

00:27:18   used OS 9 let alone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1638">TS</a>]

00:27:20   yeah you know then and they don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1640">TS</a>]

00:27:22   about the hague and they don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1642">TS</a>]

00:27:24   about all of this this extra stuff and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1644">TS</a>]

00:27:26   geeks like us we obsess about this so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1646">TS</a>]

00:27:29   think there's some stuff that will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1649">TS</a>]

00:27:30   surprising even for old-timers I'm going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1650">TS</a>]

00:27:32   to try to put a lot of these things in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1652">TS</a>]

00:27:33   the show notes a lot of them are just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1653">TS</a>]

00:27:35   screenshots like disembodied images that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1655">TS</a>]

00:27:37   I googled around for because it's hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1657">TS</a>]

00:27:38   to find good comprehensive pictures of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1658">TS</a>]

00:27:41   old UIs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1661">TS</a>]

00:27:42   but I would suggest that people actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1662">TS</a>]

00:27:43   look at them after the show and so they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1663">TS</a>]

00:27:48   can see what I'm talking about here so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1668">TS</a>]

00:27:49   I'm going to go back to the beginning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1669">TS</a>]

00:27:51   with the Mac um now the people who don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1671">TS</a>]

00:27:54   know the youngins the Mac really was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1674">TS</a>]

00:27:56   first major GUI platform that had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1676">TS</a>]

00:27:59   widespread success there were gooeys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1679">TS</a>]

00:28:00   before it but they weren't as successful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1680">TS</a>]

00:28:02   as the Mac the neck sort of defined that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1682">TS</a>]

00:28:03   the graphical user interface ah and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1683">TS</a>]

00:28:06   along with that was this big push from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1686">TS</a>]

00:28:09   Apple to get developers to make Mac apps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1689">TS</a>]

00:28:12   that sounds kind of silly it's like well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1692">TS</a>]

00:28:14   obviously you know if you make a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1694">TS</a>]

00:28:15   platform you want people to make apps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1695">TS</a>]

00:28:17   what would the memo that was they wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1697">TS</a>]

00:28:18   you to make an application it looked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1698">TS</a>]

00:28:20   like it belong in the Mac they didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1700">TS</a>]

00:28:22   want you to take like a das or Apple to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1702">TS</a>]

00:28:23   program and put it in a window and say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1703">TS</a>]

00:28:25   look I brought my program to the Mac you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1705">TS</a>]

00:28:27   know you double-click this icon the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1707">TS</a>]

00:28:28   program launches and inside the window [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1708">TS</a>]

00:28:30   is what you would see previously on on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1710">TS</a>]

00:28:31   the da screen or what you would see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1711">TS</a>]

00:28:32   previously on an Apple 2 screen that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1712">TS</a>]

00:28:34   the last thing Apple want they wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1714">TS</a>]

00:28:35   you to make Mac applications and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1715">TS</a>]

00:28:38   famous example of them sort of enforcing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1718">TS</a>]

00:28:40   this with hardware they didn't put arrow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1720">TS</a>]

00:28:41   keys on the original Mac's keyboard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1721">TS</a>]

00:28:43   which sounds crazy you know how can you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1723">TS</a>]

00:28:45   have a keep over that arrow keys but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1725">TS</a>]

00:28:46   that was their clear signal to people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1726">TS</a>]

00:28:48   writing applications do not make no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1728">TS</a>]

00:28:51   function keys either by the way do not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1731">TS</a>]

00:28:52   make the dots application in a window do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1732">TS</a>]

00:28:54   not make an Apple 2 application in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1734">TS</a>]

00:28:55   window there are no arrow keys you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1735">TS</a>]

00:28:57   to use the mouse make a Mac application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1737">TS</a>]

00:28:59   and this was part of their push to sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1739">TS</a>]

00:29:02   of establish the GUI is a viable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1742">TS</a>]

00:29:03   paradigm for computing which also sounds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1743">TS</a>]

00:29:05   ridiculous like you know people or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1745">TS</a>]

00:29:08   younger don't even realize that there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1748">TS</a>]

00:29:10   was a long time before the GUI was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1750">TS</a>]

00:29:11   anything and there was it you know you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1751">TS</a>]

00:29:13   had to computer with a mouse attached it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1753">TS</a>]

00:29:15   was like there must be some toy computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1755">TS</a>]

00:29:16   is it a fisher-price you know real men [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1756">TS</a>]

00:29:18   use the command-line interface this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1758">TS</a>]

00:29:20   not a real computer there's good decade [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1760">TS</a>]

00:29:23   of that after the Mac was introduced of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1763">TS</a>]

00:29:25   dismissing it as a toy so Apple was you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1765">TS</a>]

00:29:28   know Apple's challenge was make this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1768">TS</a>]

00:29:31   acceptable maple people to understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1771">TS</a>]

00:29:32   that it's OK for a computer to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1772">TS</a>]

00:29:34   like this and that you should make your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1774">TS</a>]

00:29:35   applications look like this and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1775">TS</a>]

00:29:37   that old stuff with the command line [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1777">TS</a>]

00:29:38   that's going away and that was an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1778">TS</a>]

00:29:41   incredibly tough sell and if you didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1781">TS</a>]

00:29:43   live through it it's hard to even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1783">TS</a>]

00:29:44   imagine that this would be an issue of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1784">TS</a>]

00:29:45   debate because nowadays you could not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1785">TS</a>]

00:29:47   get a regular person to sit in front of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1787">TS</a>]

00:29:48   a command line and do anything but back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1788">TS</a>]

00:29:50   then that was the dominant metaphor for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1790">TS</a>]

00:29:53   interfacing with a computer you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1793">TS</a>]

00:29:55   that was considered and I'll just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1795">TS</a>]

00:29:57   mention this there was a notion for many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1797">TS</a>]

00:30:00   years that even even the youngest in our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1800">TS</a>]

00:30:03   audience should remember that it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1803">TS</a>]

00:30:06   considered that that Mac's were for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1806">TS</a>]

00:30:09   artists and designers and maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1809">TS</a>]

00:30:11   musicians and pcs were like if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1811">TS</a>]

00:30:13   wanted to do real work you know you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1813">TS</a>]

00:30:15   in business you get a PC even that was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1815">TS</a>]

00:30:18   triumph even that was a triumph to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1818">TS</a>]

00:30:20   yes there was a class of people for whom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1820">TS</a>]

00:30:23   the Mac is actually useful tool like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1823">TS</a>]

00:30:24   just getting the artist to because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1824">TS</a>]

00:30:26   previously was just like oh come on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1826">TS</a>]

00:30:27   you're not gonna buy this thing it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1827">TS</a>]

00:30:28   like a fisher-price I mean you can't do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1828">TS</a>]

00:30:30   a thing with it it's got these pictures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1830">TS</a>]

00:30:31   on the screen is it for kids or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1831">TS</a>]

00:30:32   something you know it's useless for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1832">TS</a>]

00:30:34   every button and finally you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1834">TS</a>]

00:30:35   desktop publishing and stuff like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1835">TS</a>]

00:30:37   came in all right so fine I guess it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1837">TS</a>]

00:30:38   okay for those hippies yeah we had we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1838">TS</a>]

00:30:40   had a medical study at our school that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1840">TS</a>]

00:30:42   that was the one of the the only ones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1842">TS</a>]

00:30:45   and it was the Makah see that we did the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1845">TS</a>]

00:30:47   school newspaper and like the yearbook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1847">TS</a>]

00:30:50   on and people would line up waiting to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1850">TS</a>]

00:30:52   use this thing but but people need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1852">TS</a>]

00:30:55   remember that John I think that that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1855">TS</a>]

00:30:57   Mac was off in this own like there was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1857">TS</a>]

00:30:59   you needed to have a mouse because there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1859">TS</a>]

00:31:01   were a lot of people that didn't have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1861">TS</a>]

00:31:02   mouse that was not weird oh yeah again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1862">TS</a>]

00:31:06   for years and years and years pcs did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1866">TS</a>]

00:31:08   not come with the mouse or any kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1868">TS</a>]

00:31:09   pointing device they just ignored what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1869">TS</a>]

00:31:11   the Mac was doing and then you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1871">TS</a>]

00:31:12   fact that Mac started going desktop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1872">TS</a>]

00:31:14   publishing and I still find there's some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1874">TS</a>]

00:31:15   class of users they need to use this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1875">TS</a>]

00:31:17   type of computer but seriously if you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1877">TS</a>]

00:31:18   going to liam Peter for your house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1878">TS</a>]

00:31:19   obviously you get a PC and don't worry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1879">TS</a>]

00:31:21   about that Mouse and gooey stuff it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1881">TS</a>]

00:31:22   silly and we have Windows anyway and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1882">TS</a>]

00:31:24   it's almost the same thing right so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1884">TS</a>]

00:31:26   advent of Windows you know and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1886">TS</a>]

00:31:28   popularization of Windows was an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1888">TS</a>]

00:31:29   admission that maybe there is something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1889">TS</a>]

00:31:32   the scoobies thing but Windows ran from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1892">TS</a>]

00:31:33   das and it was a whole other you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1893">TS</a>]

00:31:36   thing there I might a quick aside on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1896">TS</a>]

00:31:39   Windows and das my favorite thing about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1899">TS</a>]

00:31:42   Windows the windows and das battle this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1902">TS</a>]

00:31:44   is this is a slight tangent here but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1904">TS</a>]

00:31:46   know when I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1906">TS</a>]

00:31:47   of all windows versus the Mac and as we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1907">TS</a>]

00:31:49   all know Windows came to dominate but in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1909">TS</a>]

00:31:51   the beginning it was a bunch of DOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1911">TS</a>]

00:31:52   people installing Windows 3.1 which was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1912">TS</a>]

00:31:54   like the first decent version that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1914">TS</a>]

00:31:56   operated anything like a real GUI had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1916">TS</a>]

00:31:59   overlapping windows and mouse support [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1919">TS</a>]

00:32:00   and stuff like that and the way you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1920">TS</a>]

00:32:02   would do it is you install Windows but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1922">TS</a>]

00:32:04   then when you booted your computer you'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1924">TS</a>]

00:32:05   be at a DOS prompt and what you would do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1925">TS</a>]

00:32:07   at the DOS prompt is type win which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1927">TS</a>]

00:32:09   short for Windows that was a shorter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1929">TS</a>]

00:32:11   version they launched windows Mary and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1931">TS</a>]

00:32:13   the sheer psychological weight of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1933">TS</a>]

00:32:16   millions of PC users typing the word win [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1936">TS</a>]

00:32:19   there Wow has always just sat on my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1939">TS</a>]

00:32:23   shoulders think how much did this have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1943">TS</a>]

00:32:25   to do with Windows winning the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1945">TS</a>]

00:32:27   desktop battle because at that point was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1947">TS</a>]

00:32:28   only geeks who are using any kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1948">TS</a>]

00:32:30   computer and we all knew there was this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1950">TS</a>]

00:32:32   battle hood desktop and here these users [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1952">TS</a>]

00:32:33   typing win win win win millions of every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1953">TS</a>]

00:32:37   day win win and just the repetition had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1957">TS</a>]

00:32:41   to hammer into their head you know a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1961">TS</a>]

00:32:42   psychological predisposition to think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1962">TS</a>]

00:32:44   that Windows was going to win the Mac PC [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1964">TS</a>]

00:32:45   wars that is that perhaps the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1965">TS</a>]

00:32:47   touchy-feely 'us hippie dippie ASEC [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1967">TS</a>]

00:32:49   splen asian for why the Mac lost the war [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1969">TS</a>]

00:32:51   for the desktop that you could possibly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1971">TS</a>]

00:32:53   imagine but it is always not sat right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1973">TS</a>]

00:32:54   with me and I just wonder if there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1974">TS</a>]

00:32:56   someone inside Microsoft who decided to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1976">TS</a>]

00:32:58   put in that little shortcut who was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1978">TS</a>]

00:33:00   smiling as people were typing it all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1980">TS</a>]

00:33:03   right go back back to the GUI time so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1983">TS</a>]

00:33:05   the Mac with the first major GUI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1985">TS</a>]

00:33:07   something that gooeys came with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1987">TS</a>]

00:33:10   command line things didn't really was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1990">TS</a>]

00:33:11   that it came with like parts out of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1991">TS</a>]

00:33:13   box you know if you're writing a GUI app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1993">TS</a>]

00:33:15   you don't have to draw every pixel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1995">TS</a>]

00:33:17   yourself it came with a bunch of parts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1997">TS</a>]

00:33:18   you want to draw a button the operating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/1998">TS</a>]

00:33:20   system had a way to draw a button for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2000">TS</a>]

00:33:21   you if you wanted to our window the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2001">TS</a>]

00:33:23   operating system had a way to draw a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2003">TS</a>]

00:33:24   window for you it had scroll bars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2004">TS</a>]

00:33:25   cursors menus little pieces from which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2005">TS</a>]

00:33:27   you can assemble your application right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2007">TS</a>]

00:33:30   but on top of that Apple had their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2010">TS</a>]

00:33:32   written guidelines like here's how you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2012">TS</a>]

00:33:34   assemble these parts to make something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2014">TS</a>]

00:33:36   that is an appropriate Mac application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2016">TS</a>]

00:33:38   so first of all definitely use these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2018">TS</a>]

00:33:39   parts don't you know do a command line [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2019">TS</a>]

00:33:41   thing inside a window but second well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2021">TS</a>]

00:33:42   when you use the parts here's how you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2022">TS</a>]

00:33:44   it when you have a dialog box put these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2024">TS</a>]

00:33:45   two buttons on them the okay button goes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2025">TS</a>]

00:33:47   over here the cancel button goes over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2027">TS</a>]

00:33:48   there the default button you know should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2028">TS</a>]

00:33:50   look like this make sure there always is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2030">TS</a>]

00:33:51   a default button all these sorts of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2031">TS</a>]

00:33:53   guidelines and they call it The Hague [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2033">TS</a>]

00:33:55   the human interface guidelines now human [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2035">TS</a>]

00:33:58   interface guidelines existed before the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2038">TS</a>]

00:33:59   Mac but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2039">TS</a>]

00:34:00   they were more important for the Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2040">TS</a>]

00:34:01   because here were these parts that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2041">TS</a>]

00:34:03   were going to assemble to make an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2043">TS</a>]

00:34:04   application you can assemble these parts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2044">TS</a>]

00:34:06   and also it's a different way so there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2046">TS</a>]

00:34:07   was much more stricter guys much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2047">TS</a>]

00:34:09   stricter guidelines than you had for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2049">TS</a>]

00:34:10   example for the Apple to wear they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2050">TS</a>]

00:34:12   some guidelines about you know keyboard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2052">TS</a>]

00:34:13   commands and how input should look and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2053">TS</a>]

00:34:15   stuff like that but it wasn't like when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2055">TS</a>]

00:34:17   you draw this in the screen this should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2057">TS</a>]

00:34:18   be this many pixels away from that this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2058">TS</a>]

00:34:19   should be over here this should be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2059">TS</a>]

00:34:20   aligned with that it was just you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2060">TS</a>]

00:34:21   much stricter and the guidelines that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2061">TS</a>]

00:34:25   were there were an attempt to not only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2065">TS</a>]

00:34:29   make Mac applications like Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2069">TS</a>]

00:34:30   application so make them all look like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2070">TS</a>]

00:34:32   each other because they were trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2072">TS</a>]

00:34:33   push the benefits of the GUI which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2073">TS</a>]

00:34:36   not only that it's easier to use but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2076">TS</a>]

00:34:37   that once you learn how to use one Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2077">TS</a>]

00:34:39   application you can use any of them you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2079">TS</a>]

00:34:41   know so this may be foreign and crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2081">TS</a>]

00:34:42   for you moving around this little thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2082">TS</a>]

00:34:44   with the cord hanging from a ball in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2084">TS</a>]

00:34:45   bottom but once you figure out how to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2085">TS</a>]

00:34:46   it once the next application you use you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2086">TS</a>]

00:34:48   won't have that learning curve again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2088">TS</a>]

00:34:50   provided that we can get all developers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2090">TS</a>]

00:34:52   to make their applications look the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2092">TS</a>]

00:34:53   way to behave the same way to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2093">TS</a>]

00:34:55   similar you know menu structures similar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2095">TS</a>]

00:34:57   dialog boxes so that you would see the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2097">TS</a>]

00:35:00   benefit of the GUI and then applicants I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2100">TS</a>]

00:35:01   see huh GUI pretty good right now during [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2101">TS</a>]

00:35:06   this time you had people who saw the Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2106">TS</a>]

00:35:08   and said wow this is awesome like it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2108">TS</a>]

00:35:09   clearly the way all computers are going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2109">TS</a>]

00:35:11   to be the Mac is awesome I love the Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2111">TS</a>]

00:35:12   that would have been me as a kid and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2112">TS</a>]

00:35:14   lots of other people alright and they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2114">TS</a>]

00:35:16   there Apple itself had sort of a similar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2116">TS</a>]

00:35:19   fervor to say we want the maxes to seed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2119">TS</a>]

00:35:21   we want to establish the GUI as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2121">TS</a>]

00:35:23   dominant paradigm because we have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2123">TS</a>]

00:35:25   best GUI and therefore we will win now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2125">TS</a>]

00:35:27   what happened during that time I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2127">TS</a>]

00:35:28   is sort of the the fervor to establish [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2128">TS</a>]

00:35:31   the GUI got tangled up with religious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2131">TS</a>]

00:35:35   adherence to the hIgG because the Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2135">TS</a>]

00:35:37   fans would be like we love the GUI and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2137">TS</a>]

00:35:39   if you're writing GUI map you got you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2139">TS</a>]

00:35:41   got to follow these guidelines and since [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2141">TS</a>]

00:35:43   we're you know geeks and otaku would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2143">TS</a>]

00:35:46   a better term we're just obsessive about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2146">TS</a>]

00:35:47   this stuff you have to follow the hague [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2147">TS</a>]

00:35:49   because here's the hague the Higa's are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2149">TS</a>]

00:35:50   you know the held it like the bible the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2150">TS</a>]

00:35:52   hague is our bible if you want to join [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2152">TS</a>]

00:35:54   us this is what you have to do and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2154">TS</a>]

00:35:55   you don't follow the hague you're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2155">TS</a>]

00:35:56   helping the platform succeed right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2156">TS</a>]

00:36:00   and that that you know i think it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2160">TS</a>]

00:36:02   for the people way back then who are in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2162">TS</a>]

00:36:04   in the midst of that revolution there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2164">TS</a>]

00:36:06   that the strongest adherence to the hIgG [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2166">TS</a>]

00:36:08   is the bible you have to do what it says [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2168">TS</a>]

00:36:10   and if you don't you are you're making a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2170">TS</a>]

00:36:13   lesser application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2173">TS</a>]

00:36:14   but in reality even Apple itself was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2174">TS</a>]

00:36:18   never as rigid as these as these people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2178">TS</a>]

00:36:20   who were the the rabid Apple fans were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2180">TS</a>]

00:36:23   Apple did want its platform succeed and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2183">TS</a>]

00:36:24   it did say you should use the hIgG but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2184">TS</a>]

00:36:26   they were the G is for guideline not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2186">TS</a>]

00:36:27   gospel all right if you look at like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2187">TS</a>]

00:36:31   original Mac that came out of the box in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2191">TS</a>]

00:36:32   1984 one of which I had from day one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2192">TS</a>]

00:36:36   Apple was not did not feel constrained [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2196">TS</a>]

00:36:39   by the human interface guidelines it did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2199">TS</a>]

00:36:40   itself had written for the Mac because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2200">TS</a>]

00:36:42   if you if you look the best example I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2202">TS</a>]

00:36:44   was trying to think of an example from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2204">TS</a>]

00:36:45   the original Mac that you look at and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2205">TS</a>]

00:36:46   say this does not follow The Hague this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2206">TS</a>]

00:36:48   is completely wrong not only is it wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2208">TS</a>]

00:36:50   but it's a giant mess so if I had to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2210">TS</a>]

00:36:53   think one thing I would pick the control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2213">TS</a>]

00:36:54   panel do you remember with the original [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2214">TS</a>]

00:36:55   Macintosh control panel look like yeah I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2215">TS</a>]

00:36:58   think I do it was it was you know a one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2218">TS</a>]

00:37:00   screen thing and it had all the little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2220">TS</a>]

00:37:01   icons inside of it and you'd pick the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2221">TS</a>]

00:37:04   one that you want to double click it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2224">TS</a>]

00:37:05   it would it would sort of launch them as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2225">TS</a>]

00:37:07   individual apps right no you gotta go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2227">TS</a>]

00:37:09   way farther back right open I will put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2229">TS</a>]

00:37:11   it in the show notes the original [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2231">TS</a>]

00:37:12   control panel that's right it was just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2232">TS</a>]

00:37:13   one it was one winning with and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2233">TS</a>]

00:37:16   could pick the background with a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2236">TS</a>]

00:37:17   background widget and you could pick the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2237">TS</a>]

00:37:19   the fight yeah that was good I missed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2239">TS</a>]

00:37:21   that that was so simple it was one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2241">TS</a>]

00:37:23   window and there is pretty much not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2243">TS</a>]

00:37:26   standard control anywhere and I gotta [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2246">TS</a>]

00:37:28   find a screenshot of this for the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2248">TS</a>]

00:37:30   no it will be in the shop I found he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2250">TS</a>]

00:37:32   already oh you already got it excellent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2252">TS</a>]

00:37:33   so actually I'll send it to you now send [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2253">TS</a>]

00:37:36   it to me now I go look at it right now I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2256">TS</a>]

00:37:37   remember that how those little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2257">TS</a>]

00:37:38   backgrounds were so cool and it had did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2258">TS</a>]

00:37:41   but there was a different you had to how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2261">TS</a>]

00:37:43   did you change the sounds you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2263">TS</a>]

00:37:44   get that separate what was the name of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2264">TS</a>]

00:37:46   the app that let you put the house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2266">TS</a>]

00:37:47   sounds on there for the ejecting the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2267">TS</a>]

00:37:48   track that was much later but yeah there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2268">TS</a>]

00:37:50   was kaboom and so masters of my sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2270">TS</a>]

00:37:53   master this is this is the original max [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2273">TS</a>]

00:37:54   at it out of the box no no contamination [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2274">TS</a>]

00:37:57   from third-party applications is what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2277">TS</a>]

00:37:59   they're shipping with on day one and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2279">TS</a>]

00:38:01   control panel which is a pretty darn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2281">TS</a>]

00:38:02   important piece of functionality because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2282">TS</a>]

00:38:03   it's the only place you can change the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2283">TS</a>]

00:38:04   volume of the computer change the mouse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2284">TS</a>]

00:38:06   track and stuff like that you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2286">TS</a>]

00:38:10   has no standard controls on it it's got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2290">TS</a>]

00:38:11   this crazy little thing with a mouse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2291">TS</a>]

00:38:13   with lines come in front it lets you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2293">TS</a>]

00:38:15   change the mouse speed and has a zero [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2295">TS</a>]

00:38:16   and a one button what the heck to those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2296">TS</a>]

00:38:18   mean I guess one is faster than zero for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2298">TS</a>]

00:38:20   the keyboard key press speed it has a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2300">TS</a>]

00:38:22   little bit I con of a turtle and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2302">TS</a>]

00:38:24   the number zero through four and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2304">TS</a>]

00:38:25   little icon of a rabbit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2305">TS</a>]

00:38:27   slow the rabbit is fast and then it has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2307">TS</a>]

00:38:29   like a thing you're pressing a button [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2309">TS</a>]

00:38:30   and another series of numbers these none [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2310">TS</a>]

00:38:32   of these are standard controls and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2312">TS</a>]

00:38:33   they're nonsensical like this is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2313">TS</a>]

00:38:35   original you know this is the brush [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2315">TS</a>]

00:38:37   metal of its day this out of the gate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2317">TS</a>]

00:38:39   Apple is saying we have these guidelines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2319">TS</a>]

00:38:41   but we are going to make an important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2321">TS</a>]

00:38:42   part of the system totally disregard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2322">TS</a>]

00:38:44   every single one the only thing this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2324">TS</a>]

00:38:45   thing has on it's a standard control is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2325">TS</a>]

00:38:46   the title bar the title bar has a closed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2326">TS</a>]

00:38:48   box on it it's a standard title bar and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2328">TS</a>]

00:38:50   maybe you could say the volume slider is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2330">TS</a>]

00:38:52   a standard slider control I don't think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2332">TS</a>]

00:38:53   is so cool like that is insane and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2333">TS</a>]

00:38:57   Apple today came out and like Mac OS 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2337">TS</a>]

00:38:59   line and I had some app UI like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2339">TS</a>]

00:39:01   people would flip out right so this this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2341">TS</a>]

00:39:05   is my first example of how the adherence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2345">TS</a>]

00:39:08   to the hague is really sort of an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2348">TS</a>]

00:39:11   illusion of the the faithful and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2351">TS</a>]

00:39:13   Apple never felt constrained fine never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2353">TS</a>]

00:39:16   never never felt constrained by now if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2356">TS</a>]

00:39:18   we go forward through time you know to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2358">TS</a>]

00:39:20   say did they get this out of the system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2360">TS</a>]

00:39:22   that was there ever a golden era where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2362">TS</a>]

00:39:23   they said okay now you know forget about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2363">TS</a>]

00:39:25   that crazy stuff forget about the custom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2365">TS</a>]

00:39:26   controls forget about these windows that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2366">TS</a>]

00:39:27   make no sense but the funny icons that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2367">TS</a>]

00:39:29   you can't figure out we're gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2369">TS</a>]

00:39:30   everything's gonna be standard right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2370">TS</a>]

00:39:31   that's that's the one yeah but I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2371">TS</a>]

00:39:33   think they ever got there because in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2373">TS</a>]

00:39:35   like I'm gonna I'm gonna fast-forward to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2375">TS</a>]

00:39:37   system 7 system 6 was didn't change too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2377">TS</a>]

00:39:41   much from the other ones it introduced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2381">TS</a>]

00:39:42   color banana mineral matter but system 7 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2382">TS</a>]

00:39:44   was the first OS with real color in it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2384">TS</a>]

00:39:46   all right um now I'm always a fan of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2386">TS</a>]

00:39:49   system 7 because they could have gone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2389">TS</a>]

00:39:50   much crazier with the color in system 7 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2390">TS</a>]

00:39:52   so some 7 was the first one written [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2392">TS</a>]

00:39:53   written from day one to support color [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2393">TS</a>]

00:39:55   and they could have made everything like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2395">TS</a>]

00:39:56   purple and blue or like you know like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2396">TS</a>]

00:39:59   windows basically they could have used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2399">TS</a>]

00:40:00   garish color everywhere instead what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2400">TS</a>]

00:40:02   they did was they took the original look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2402">TS</a>]

00:40:03   and I just highlighted it with just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2403">TS</a>]

00:40:05   little bit of color around the edges [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2405">TS</a>]

00:40:06   like very subtle light color [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2406">TS</a>]

00:40:08   highlighting the edges of the existing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2408">TS</a>]

00:40:10   black and white art do you have any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2410">TS</a>]

00:40:11   screenshots yeah oh I'll have I need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2411">TS</a>]

00:40:14   see these so we can talk about you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2414">TS</a>]

00:40:16   remember what system 6 looks like no I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2416">TS</a>]

00:40:17   remember a member system 7 so I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2417">TS</a>]

00:40:20   have any good system stuff in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2420">TS</a>]

00:40:21   screenshots and notes but I will get one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2421">TS</a>]

00:40:23   for you at the end of the show but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2423">TS</a>]

00:40:24   know a system 7 look like Rio I loved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2424">TS</a>]

00:40:26   system 7 that was my that was my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2426">TS</a>]

00:40:28   favorite Mac OS since up to now up to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2428">TS</a>]

00:40:30   present [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2430">TS</a>]

00:40:31   not including present rather yeah I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2431">TS</a>]

00:40:34   think I think for me leopard is on par [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2434">TS</a>]

00:40:37   with system 7 so some well Snow Leopard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2437">TS</a>]

00:40:39   is better for me system 7 is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2439">TS</a>]

00:40:41   tied up in the age that I was at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2441">TS</a>]

00:40:42   time so the original system seven is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2442">TS</a>]

00:40:44   these operating system release I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2444">TS</a>]

00:40:46   most excited about on the one that I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2446">TS</a>]

00:40:47   most satisfied with which really has no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2447">TS</a>]

00:40:50   foundation in the facts because system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2450">TS</a>]

00:40:53   seven itself was a little bit buggy and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2453">TS</a>]

00:40:55   you know there wasn't even a fonts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2455">TS</a>]

00:40:56   folder until 7.1 and it was clearly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2456">TS</a>]

00:40:58   shipped out early and a lot of a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2458">TS</a>]

00:41:00   things not to recommend system seven but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2460">TS</a>]

00:41:01   because of where I was in my life at a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2461">TS</a>]

00:41:03   time and how excited I was about it that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2463">TS</a>]

00:41:04   that was the best the ID that our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2464">TS</a>]

00:41:07   friends the Nerds in the chat room have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2467">TS</a>]

00:41:09   submitted it's a very nice screen system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2469">TS</a>]

00:41:13   yes isn't that a guidebook GUI site now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2473">TS</a>]

00:41:16   I don't need I don't need to look at it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2476">TS</a>]

00:41:18   cuz I assist them something has burned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2478">TS</a>]

00:41:19   in my brain and it feels good to look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2479">TS</a>]

00:41:21   it alright but even in system seven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2481">TS</a>]

00:41:23   Apple still you know they made new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2483">TS</a>]

00:41:26   guidelines for color and everything and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2486">TS</a>]

00:41:27   how things should look in a bunch of new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2487">TS</a>]

00:41:28   controls but they still said yeah this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2488">TS</a>]

00:41:31   doesn't apply to us I mean do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2491">TS</a>]

00:41:32   remember the CD player application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2492">TS</a>]

00:41:34   mm-hmm right that was like the iTunes of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2494">TS</a>]

00:41:38   its day but even worse all right so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2498">TS</a>]

00:41:40   first of all the CD application again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2500">TS</a>]

00:41:42   had no standard controls that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2502">TS</a>]

00:41:43   discerned anywhere on it every control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2503">TS</a>]

00:41:45   was custom and only were they custom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2505">TS</a>]

00:41:47   didn't even look like standard control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2507">TS</a>]

00:41:48   so the buttons look like physical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2508">TS</a>]

00:41:49   buttons right on an actual CD player and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2509">TS</a>]

00:41:52   it looked like there was a little deck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2512">TS</a>]

00:41:53   for stuff to go in there was lots of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2513">TS</a>]

00:41:55   recesses and highlights and stuff like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2515">TS</a>]

00:41:57   that I mean it's play space us in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2517">TS</a>]

00:42:00   chat room because people I want to take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2520">TS</a>]

00:42:02   a look at it too but not only was it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2522">TS</a>]

00:42:04   crazy-looking even the title bar by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2524">TS</a>]

00:42:06   way even the title bars notice the end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2526">TS</a>]

00:42:07   of the clothes which it was not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2527">TS</a>]

00:42:08   complete custom you are but on top of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2528">TS</a>]

00:42:11   that you could change the color of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2531">TS</a>]

00:42:12   thing you could pick black or like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2532">TS</a>]

00:42:14   hundred percent separate saturated red [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2534">TS</a>]

00:42:16   or I think other colors were yellow or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2536">TS</a>]

00:42:18   blue or green you could change the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2538">TS</a>]

00:42:19   entire GUI to some incredibly garish [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2539">TS</a>]

00:42:22   color and again if they came out with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2542">TS</a>]

00:42:24   version of iTunes and said now it comes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2544">TS</a>]

00:42:26   in colors and you can pick from this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2546">TS</a>]

00:42:27   popup menu and change the color of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2547">TS</a>]

00:42:29   whole app and by the way there's not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2549">TS</a>]

00:42:30   standard control anywhere to be found in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2550">TS</a>]

00:42:32   the app people will go nuts yeah and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2552">TS</a>]

00:42:33   this is basically the equivalent of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2553">TS</a>]

00:42:34   iTunes it was the audio player of its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2554">TS</a>]

00:42:36   day there was no mp3 is just playing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2556">TS</a>]

00:42:37   audio CDs from your CD Drive which is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2557">TS</a>]

00:42:40   you know advanced technology and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2560">TS</a>]

00:42:44   rest of the OS was you know fairly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2564">TS</a>]

00:42:46   standard but they never felt any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2566">TS</a>]

00:42:48   compunction from just completely going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2568">TS</a>]

00:42:50   off the map to do whatever the heck they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2570">TS</a>]

00:42:51   wanted but no reason like why did the CD [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2571">TS</a>]

00:42:53   player look like that leaves it a better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2573">TS</a>]

00:42:55   application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2575">TS</a>]

00:42:55   because of that you know was there some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2575">TS</a>]

00:42:57   reason that it had to be non-standard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2577">TS</a>]

00:43:00   hey it's the apple of today has always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2580">TS</a>]

00:43:04   been the end apples always been like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2584">TS</a>]

00:43:06   that it's not a new phenomenon that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2586">TS</a>]

00:43:08   make a great point and I'd forgotten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2588">TS</a>]

00:43:10   about some of these these things they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2590">TS</a>]

00:43:12   didn't and that's true they always have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2592">TS</a>]

00:43:14   been kind of weird here's the height of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2594">TS</a>]

00:43:17   apples and sanity I think if you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2597">TS</a>]

00:43:19   say it today that they're not as bad as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2599">TS</a>]

00:43:20   they had once been this would be the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2600">TS</a>]

00:43:21   peak the peak was when they were comment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2601">TS</a>]

00:43:22   doing the the Copeland project which was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2602">TS</a>]

00:43:24   going to be the next generation Mac OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2604">TS</a>]

00:43:26   but it was modern and everything this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2606">TS</a>]

00:43:28   was the original Mac OS 8 Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2608">TS</a>]

00:43:30   eventually released something called Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2610">TS</a>]

00:43:31   OS 8 but is not this this was their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2611">TS</a>]

00:43:33   original project of this and they had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2613">TS</a>]

00:43:35   technology in there called the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2615">TS</a>]

00:43:36   appearance manager which would let you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2616">TS</a>]

00:43:38   change the appearance of all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2618">TS</a>]

00:43:40   standard controls to whatever the heck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2620">TS</a>]

00:43:41   you want and Apple itself made a bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2621">TS</a>]

00:43:44   of themes for the appearance manager and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2624">TS</a>]

00:43:46   their themes the appearance manager were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2626">TS</a>]

00:43:49   crazy like they were clearly just trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2629">TS</a>]

00:43:51   to show off what it was that they could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2631">TS</a>]

00:43:53   do with the appearance manager I pasted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2633">TS</a>]

00:43:55   some more URLs into the chat here so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2635">TS</a>]

00:43:58   don't know if people remember these but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2638">TS</a>]

00:43:59   one of them was called gizmo and gizmo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2639">TS</a>]

00:44:02   gizmo had made the window border into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2642">TS</a>]

00:44:06   squiggly lines and is I don't know how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2646">TS</a>]

00:44:12   to describe it it's obvious it's obvious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2652">TS</a>]

00:44:13   ly something you would not want to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2653">TS</a>]

00:44:15   like it's just you know this is clearly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2655">TS</a>]

00:44:16   for kids or something like that right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2656">TS</a>]

00:44:18   that's what people would say about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2658">TS</a>]

00:44:20   top widgets look like you know a spike [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2660">TS</a>]

00:44:23   with a bunch of colored blocks stuck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2663">TS</a>]

00:44:25   onto it and the borders were striped and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2665">TS</a>]

00:44:27   the scroll bars were red right and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2667">TS</a>]

00:44:29   they have made one called high tech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2669">TS</a>]

00:44:30   which was all black and dark and Blade [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2670">TS</a>]

00:44:32   Runner in all the world there are black [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2672">TS</a>]

00:44:33   that actually looks looks like what they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2673">TS</a>]

00:44:36   had in Linux on the Enlightenment window [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2676">TS</a>]

00:44:39   yes years the high tech one does look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2679">TS</a>]

00:44:41   like a Linux scheme slot but the key [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2681">TS</a>]

00:44:44   feature that the technology in question [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2684">TS</a>]

00:44:46   here was that they were saying we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2686">TS</a>]

00:44:47   going to build into the operating system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2687">TS</a>]

00:44:48   a way for you to change what every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2688">TS</a>]

00:44:50   single thing looks and look how far they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2690">TS</a>]

00:44:51   had come from saying every Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2691">TS</a>]

00:44:53   application has to look and behave the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2693">TS</a>]

00:44:54   same just saying okay I think people get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2694">TS</a>]

00:44:56   the GUI now but you know let's let you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2696">TS</a>]

00:44:58   change anything you want right now Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2698">TS</a>]

00:45:01   OS 8 Copeland did not ship instead they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2701">TS</a>]

00:45:04   shipped a evolution of Mac OS 7 system 7 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2704">TS</a>]

00:45:08   that they eventually renamed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2708">TS</a>]

00:45:09   Mac OS 7.6 that they eventually renamed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2709">TS</a>]

00:45:11   Mac OS 8 and they add a lot of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2711">TS</a>]

00:45:13   technologies to it so the appearance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2713">TS</a>]

00:45:14   manager actually shipped in the real Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2714">TS</a>]

00:45:16   OS 8 which was just an evolution of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2716">TS</a>]

00:45:18   system 7 and so you could do you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2718">TS</a>]

00:45:21   themes and stuff for an in fact if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2721">TS</a>]

00:45:23   if you manage to get your hands on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2723">TS</a>]

00:45:25   Apple themes they would work in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2725">TS</a>]

00:45:27   shipping actual Mac OS 8 and you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2727">TS</a>]

00:45:29   run them and change your things to look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2729">TS</a>]

00:45:30   like that there's another one they did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2730">TS</a>]

00:45:31   called drawing board actually which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2731">TS</a>]

00:45:33   looks classier but again crazy look like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2733">TS</a>]

00:45:35   a drafting a drafting board type of look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2735">TS</a>]

00:45:38   work a lot it's like someone had drawn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2738">TS</a>]

00:45:40   your Windows on a graphing board and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2740">TS</a>]

00:45:41   done that thing where you make the lines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2741">TS</a>]

00:45:42   go filter that yeah farther yeah I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2742">TS</a>]

00:45:45   paste that one in the chat room too now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2745">TS</a>]

00:45:48   you miss out if you're not in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2748">TS</a>]

00:45:49   chatroom people keep asking how do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2749">TS</a>]

00:45:51   do this you get a five by five TV slash [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2751">TS</a>]

00:45:53   live or slash audio if you just just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2753">TS</a>]

00:45:56   want audio in an html5 player without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2756">TS</a>]

00:45:58   flash and you click the little chat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2758">TS</a>]

00:46:02   button or if if you're a geek then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2762">TS</a>]

00:46:05   can launch your favorite IRC client go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2765">TS</a>]

00:46:08   to freenode net and join room 5x5 and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2768">TS</a>]

00:46:13   apple's efforts in these areas were not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2773">TS</a>]

00:46:14   in a vacuum like there was a thriving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2774">TS</a>]

00:46:16   community of third party theming things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2776">TS</a>]

00:46:18   and that you used the appearance manager [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2778">TS</a>]

00:46:20   that Apple had built or did their own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2780">TS</a>]

00:46:22   sort of thing with you know memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2782">TS</a>]

00:46:23   patching and all the great things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2783">TS</a>]

00:46:25   we did back in the days of classic Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2785">TS</a>]

00:46:26   OS 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2786">TS</a>]

00:46:27   the big one was called kaleidoscope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2787">TS</a>]

00:46:28   where people make kaleidoscope games and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2788">TS</a>]

00:46:30   kaleidoscope could change any part of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2790">TS</a>]

00:46:31   the GUI so there's a huge culture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2791">TS</a>]

00:46:34   surrounding changing the GUI to look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2794">TS</a>]

00:46:36   like all sorts of crazy things and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2796">TS</a>]

00:46:38   not just from but like I said it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2798">TS</a>]

00:46:40   just some third party Apple built the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2800">TS</a>]

00:46:41   the plumbing for this into the operating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2801">TS</a>]

00:46:43   system and planned to build into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2803">TS</a>]

00:46:45   next generation operating system when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2805">TS</a>]

00:46:46   they couldn't they just poured it to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2806">TS</a>]

00:46:47   their regular operating system which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2807">TS</a>]

00:46:48   continued to limp on for many years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2808">TS</a>]

00:46:50   after that now the message about this I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2810">TS</a>]

00:46:56   think was made clear in this book that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2816">TS</a>]

00:46:58   have that I think very few people have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2818">TS</a>]

00:46:59   it was published back in 1991 called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2819">TS</a>]

00:47:02   Todd on interface you know Todd is I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2822">TS</a>]

00:47:04   really remember talk I don't have this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2824">TS</a>]

00:47:06   book so this is Bruce [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2826">TS</a>]

00:47:07   Todd Mazzini I hope I'm pronouncing his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2827">TS</a>]

00:47:09   name right he was a I don't know if he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2829">TS</a>]

00:47:13   was head of the human interface group [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2833">TS</a>]

00:47:14   but he was influential in human [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2834">TS</a>]

00:47:15   interface in Apple he'd been an apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2835">TS</a>]

00:47:16   for years since the Apple 2 and he's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2836">TS</a>]

00:47:19   one to put together the hIgG and did all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2839">TS</a>]

00:47:22   the user interface tests [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2842">TS</a>]

00:47:23   stuff like that so he wrote a book sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2843">TS</a>]

00:47:24   of outside the auspices of Apple saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2844">TS</a>]

00:47:27   here's what I have to say about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2847">TS</a>]

00:47:28   interface design but he used examples [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2848">TS</a>]

00:47:29   from his Apple work all the time of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2849">TS</a>]

00:47:31   book so I guess it had to have some sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2851">TS</a>]

00:47:32   of Apple blessing or cooperation um it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2852">TS</a>]

00:47:36   was published by addison-wesley I'll put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2856">TS</a>]

00:47:38   try to put a link to that in the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2858">TS</a>]

00:47:39   notes but I think it's out of print so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2859">TS</a>]

00:47:42   on page 157 of this book he's got a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2862">TS</a>]

00:47:45   little diagram and a paragraph or two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2865">TS</a>]

00:47:48   about what he calls multiplex meanings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2868">TS</a>]

00:47:50   and he shows first he shows a bunch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2870">TS</a>]

00:47:53   little house icons for Hyper card and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2873">TS</a>]

00:47:55   only gonna remember HyperCard but there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2875">TS</a>]

00:47:56   was a concept of going home in a hyper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2876">TS</a>]

00:47:58   card stack and he showed these seventeen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2878">TS</a>]

00:48:01   different icons the hyper card came with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2881">TS</a>]

00:48:03   four going home all sorts of different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2883">TS</a>]

00:48:05   sizes of houses houses chimneys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2885">TS</a>]

00:48:06   two-story house one-story house house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2886">TS</a>]

00:48:08   from the side you know house from a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2888">TS</a>]

00:48:10   different angle and he said that it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2890">TS</a>]

00:48:14   not too much to ask the user to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2894">TS</a>]

00:48:16   recognize all these as being houses like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2896">TS</a>]

00:48:19   once you figure out that house means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2899">TS</a>]

00:48:21   home which may or may not be a hurdle to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2901">TS</a>]

00:48:22   get over when you see the little house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2902">TS</a>]

00:48:24   icon anywhere in a hypercard stack you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2904">TS</a>]

00:48:26   click it and you go home and it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2906">TS</a>]

00:48:28   matter oh well this house has its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2908">TS</a>]

00:48:29   chimney but the last one didn't I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2909">TS</a>]

00:48:30   no idea what this house is going to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2910">TS</a>]

00:48:31   when I click it now you recognize it as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2911">TS</a>]

00:48:32   a house and the other example he gave [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2912">TS</a>]

00:48:35   was from system 7 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2915">TS</a>]

00:48:36   he showed six or seven different puzzle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2916">TS</a>]

00:48:39   piece icons which in system 7 were for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2919">TS</a>]

00:48:41   system extensions things that change the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2921">TS</a>]

00:48:44   way the system worked most of them are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2924">TS</a>]

00:48:46   kind of hacky but for example at a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2926">TS</a>]

00:48:47   system extension for changing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2927">TS</a>]

00:48:50   appearance like kaleidoscope would be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2930">TS</a>]

00:48:51   partially system extension or drivers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2931">TS</a>]

00:48:53   and stuff like that and they were puzzle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2933">TS</a>]

00:48:54   piece icons because they were you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2934">TS</a>]

00:48:56   fitting together to change the way the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2936">TS</a>]

00:48:58   system works whatever whatever metaphor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2938">TS</a>]

00:48:59   they was using they were they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2939">TS</a>]

00:49:00   puzzle pieces but there are many of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2940">TS</a>]

00:49:02   there was just puzzle piece facing this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2942">TS</a>]

00:49:04   way puzzle piece with a hole in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2944">TS</a>]

00:49:05   bottom and a tab on the top puzzle piece [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2945">TS</a>]

00:49:07   facing sideways it all sorts of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2947">TS</a>]

00:49:08   different directions but all them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2948">TS</a>]

00:49:09   clearly recognizable as puzzle pieces [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2949">TS</a>]

00:49:11   right and the message was that things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2951">TS</a>]

00:49:13   don't have to look identical they just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2953">TS</a>]

00:49:15   have to be identifiable as the things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2955">TS</a>]

00:49:17   they're supposed to be so once you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2957">TS</a>]

00:49:18   figure out the puzzle piece icon means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2958">TS</a>]

00:49:20   extension you don't have to be a slave [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2960">TS</a>]

00:49:22   to only use the standard puzzle piece [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2962">TS</a>]

00:49:24   icon because if you don't people have no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2964">TS</a>]

00:49:26   idea what it what it means and it will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2966">TS</a>]

00:49:27   make the system worse right and he had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2967">TS</a>]

00:49:30   little quote at the end of this remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2970">TS</a>]

00:49:31   this is 1991 so this is ages ago on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2971">TS</a>]

00:49:33   technology wise but what he said was as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2973">TS</a>]

00:49:34   bandwidth of you as the bandwidth of use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2974">TS</a>]

00:49:37   interfaces increases he put bandwidth in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2977">TS</a>]

00:49:38   quotes because he's kind of just talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2978">TS</a>]

00:49:40   as technology increases he's kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2980">TS</a>]

00:49:42   these kinds of multiplexing will become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2982">TS</a>]

00:49:44   more and more practical so what he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2984">TS</a>]

00:49:45   saying is that as we can make nicer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2985">TS</a>]

00:49:47   icons as the fidelity of on-screen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2987">TS</a>]

00:49:49   images and the fidelity interface [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2989">TS</a>]

00:49:50   increases there'll be even more things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2990">TS</a>]

00:49:54   that we can do that make the appearance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2994">TS</a>]

00:49:56   different but are still leaves the items [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2996">TS</a>]

00:49:59   identifiable as what they're supposed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/2999">TS</a>]

00:50:00   be all right so now here we are today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3000">TS</a>]

00:50:04   with you know the Retina displays on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3004">TS</a>]

00:50:07   iPads and millions of colors on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3007">TS</a>]

00:50:09   everything and you know huge huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3009">TS</a>]

00:50:11   bandwidth in his parlance of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3011">TS</a>]

00:50:12   interface so we can make the appearance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3012">TS</a>]

00:50:14   very to crazy degree but the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3014">TS</a>]

00:50:17   question applies now is it applied then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3017">TS</a>]

00:50:19   what's the point why are you burying the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3019">TS</a>]

00:50:22   appearance so what why have seven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3022">TS</a>]

00:50:24   different puzzle pieces why have twelve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3024">TS</a>]

00:50:26   different kinds of houses why I have 50 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3026">TS</a>]

00:50:28   different things that do the same thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3028">TS</a>]

00:50:31   but look slightly different and there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3031">TS</a>]

00:50:33   a couple of reasons for this first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3033">TS</a>]

00:50:34   obviously is fashion and I don't think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3034">TS</a>]

00:50:36   you can dismiss that fashion is a valid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3036">TS</a>]

00:50:38   reason to change the appearance of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3038">TS</a>]

00:50:40   something fashion has changed you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3040">TS</a>]

00:50:42   who's to say what's the purpose of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3042">TS</a>]

00:50:43   fashions and people's clothes you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3043">TS</a>]

00:50:45   long hair short hair long skirts short [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3045">TS</a>]

00:50:48   skirts tight pants loose-fitting pants [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3048">TS</a>]

00:50:50   you know stripes plaid plain things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3050">TS</a>]

00:50:53   fashion changes and the function of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3053">TS</a>]

00:50:56   fashion is not it doesn't do anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3056">TS</a>]

00:50:59   for you it's just it's as part of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3059">TS</a>]

00:51:00   human experience and too so why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3060">TS</a>]

00:51:02   shouldn't fashion be part of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3062">TS</a>]

00:51:04   computing experience as well so if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3064">TS</a>]

00:51:05   someone decides something year that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3065">TS</a>]

00:51:07   fashion of Mac OS 10 is going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3067">TS</a>]

00:51:08   different than it was last year and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3068">TS</a>]

00:51:10   think we're moving from the 60s into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3070">TS</a>]

00:51:11   70s or the 80s or you know using the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3071">TS</a>]

00:51:14   equivalent fashion errors why not right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3074">TS</a>]

00:51:16   I think that's that is reason alone to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3076">TS</a>]

00:51:19   say yes you can change the appearance of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3079">TS</a>]

00:51:22   the user interface purely on the basis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3082">TS</a>]

00:51:25   of fashion a correlator this is kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3085">TS</a>]

00:51:27   mood mood gets more into objective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3087">TS</a>]

00:51:31   measures where you can have a look of an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3091">TS</a>]

00:51:35   interface that's frantic or sort of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3095">TS</a>]

00:51:39   know exciting like an example I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3099">TS</a>]

00:51:40   give is the Windows XP blue themed let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3100">TS</a>]

00:51:42   me remember what that was in the chat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3102">TS</a>]

00:51:44   room like when XP first came out you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3104">TS</a>]

00:51:46   could put it in classic Windows 95 look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3106">TS</a>]

00:51:48   but the sort of native [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3108">TS</a>]

00:51:50   Windows XP look it was in all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3110">TS</a>]

00:51:51   screenshots was really saturated blue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3111">TS</a>]

00:51:54   yeah with a green background and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3114">TS</a>]

00:51:56   looked very different from the old one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3116">TS</a>]

00:51:58   this little chunkier and dissing I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3118">TS</a>]

00:52:01   wrong and that was a very different mood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3121">TS</a>]

00:52:03   than Windows 95 which was mostly grey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3123">TS</a>]

00:52:05   so whatever Microsoft was trying to said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3125">TS</a>]

00:52:07   they were they were conveying a message [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3127">TS</a>]

00:52:08   with their UI this is more exciting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3128">TS</a>]

00:52:10   Windows XP it's it's not this stayed old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3130">TS</a>]

00:52:12   Windows 95 they used it it was all grey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3132">TS</a>]

00:52:14   it's it's you know it's new it's shiny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3134">TS</a>]

00:52:16   you know it's plastic fantastic whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3136">TS</a>]

00:52:20   first thing I would do in a row get on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3140">TS</a>]

00:52:22   an XP box and I still have a couple of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3142">TS</a>]

00:52:25   them here in the studio that we use for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3145">TS</a>]

00:52:27   different things immediately immediately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3147">TS</a>]

00:52:28   switch it back to classic immediately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3148">TS</a>]

00:52:31   yeah even the metrics were different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3151">TS</a>]

00:52:33   like the windows were the window title [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3153">TS</a>]

00:52:34   bar was thicker yeah tarimov blue thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3154">TS</a>]

00:52:36   it wasn't any clearly was not an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3156">TS</a>]

00:52:38   improvement nobody liked that some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3158">TS</a>]

00:52:40   people did because I thought you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3160">TS</a>]

00:52:42   interesting but hey Mon so so let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3162">TS</a>]

00:52:43   compare this to a different mood from an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3163">TS</a>]

00:52:47   OS vendor which is a next step next step [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3167">TS</a>]

00:52:49   was just gray as far as the eye could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3169">TS</a>]

00:52:52   see everything was gray or black it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3172">TS</a>]

00:52:54   looked like you know a banker suit right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3174">TS</a>]

00:52:58   these things sounds like I'm just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3178">TS</a>]

00:53:00   talking about fashion again but I'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3180">TS</a>]

00:53:02   because there's a mood to the operating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3182">TS</a>]

00:53:03   system that affects the people using it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3183">TS</a>]

00:53:05   if you make something bright and shiny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3185">TS</a>]

00:53:06   and blinking and everything that has a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3186">TS</a>]

00:53:08   different effect on the user than if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3188">TS</a>]

00:53:10   make something that sort of calm or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3190">TS</a>]

00:53:12   soothing right now in today's market for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3192">TS</a>]

00:53:15   computers this happens on an app by app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3195">TS</a>]

00:53:17   basis sometimes like for example games [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3197">TS</a>]

00:53:19   tend to have more frantic you eyes with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3199">TS</a>]

00:53:20   you know the menus make noises when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3200">TS</a>]

00:53:22   mouse over them and things are animated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3202">TS</a>]

00:53:24   there's a background going on there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3204">TS</a>]

00:53:25   music and stuff like that that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3205">TS</a>]

00:53:26   appropriate for a game versus the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3206">TS</a>]

00:53:28   end of the spectrum are like these uh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3208">TS</a>]

00:53:30   Merlin's favorite distraction free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3210">TS</a>]

00:53:32   writing environments where the UI just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3212">TS</a>]

00:53:34   go away entirely and just simple calm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3214">TS</a>]

00:53:36   screen just your words in front of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3216">TS</a>]

00:53:38   to help you think so this is an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3218">TS</a>]

00:53:39   interface that's not changing based on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3219">TS</a>]

00:53:41   fashions changing because they think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3221">TS</a>]

00:53:42   making this thing look different will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3222">TS</a>]

00:53:44   make the user feel different it makes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3224">TS</a>]

00:53:45   user perform differently and the whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3225">TS</a>]

00:53:49   OS has that you know can do that as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3229">TS</a>]

00:53:51   now with the whole OS it's different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3231">TS</a>]

00:53:53   than on app by app basis because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3233">TS</a>]

00:53:54   whole of us has to strike a balance they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3234">TS</a>]

00:53:55   can't make a UI that looks like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3235">TS</a>]

00:53:57   interface to a pop cap game because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3237">TS</a>]

00:53:58   people will not use that daily basis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3238">TS</a>]

00:54:00   right but they also probably don't want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3240">TS</a>]

00:54:03   to make an interface look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3243">TS</a>]

00:54:04   like the old next step where just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3244">TS</a>]

00:54:05   everything is super boring all the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3245">TS</a>]

00:54:06   because one of the important features of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3246">TS</a>]

00:54:09   all these things with UI is I can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3249">TS</a>]

00:54:11   divided Apple make that CD player look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3251">TS</a>]

00:54:12   like that why did the control panel have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3252">TS</a>]

00:54:14   the little turtle and the hare icons on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3254">TS</a>]

00:54:15   it sometimes you do things this is you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3255">TS</a>]

00:54:18   know a third thing fashion mood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3258">TS</a>]

00:54:19   sometimes just doing for fun because hey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3259">TS</a>]

00:54:22   let's have some fun here that when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3262">TS</a>]

00:54:24   remember seeing that little turtle in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3264">TS</a>]

00:54:25   the hair and I'd figured out is like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3265">TS</a>]

00:54:26   10 year old oh that means faster and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3266">TS</a>]

00:54:28   slower than rain it's fun to discover [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3268">TS</a>]

00:54:30   that it's fun to have a CD player that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3270">TS</a>]

00:54:32   you can change to bright red because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3272">TS</a>]

00:54:34   always made mine red because I thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3274">TS</a>]

00:54:35   they look the best a lot other people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3275">TS</a>]

00:54:37   kept there as as black you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3277">TS</a>]

00:54:38   like what color do you keep your CD play [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3278">TS</a>]

00:54:39   it's just a music player why not make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3279">TS</a>]

00:54:41   fun right now the limitations of all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3281">TS</a>]

00:54:46   these changes of you know doing things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3286">TS</a>]

00:54:47   for fashion or for mood or just for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3287">TS</a>]

00:54:49   heck of it is are we straying too far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3289">TS</a>]

00:54:51   away from the users ability to figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3291">TS</a>]

00:54:54   out what it is can people still identify [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3294">TS</a>]

00:54:55   where the clothes boxes do they know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3295">TS</a>]

00:54:57   that this is a button do they know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3297">TS</a>]

00:54:58   you can press this and we've seen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3298">TS</a>]

00:54:59   instances where they've gone too far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3299">TS</a>]

00:55:01   like the QuickTime 4 player remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3301">TS</a>]

00:55:02   that oh yeah it was one of the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3302">TS</a>]

00:55:04   brush metal things you had a remote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3304">TS</a>]

00:55:06   control that was a dial like you like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3306">TS</a>]

00:55:09   thumb dial I got a physical device where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3309">TS</a>]

00:55:11   use a dial that was embedded in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3311">TS</a>]

00:55:13   device in just a small arc of the circle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3313">TS</a>]

00:55:15   would stick above the top knee but rub [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3315">TS</a>]

00:55:18   it with your thumb right so they put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3318">TS</a>]

00:55:19   this in a UI a picture of a dial that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3319">TS</a>]

00:55:21   you were looking at head on that you had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3321">TS</a>]

00:55:22   to like scrub your mouse across to turn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3322">TS</a>]

00:55:24   the dye it's not obvious that that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3324">TS</a>]

00:55:27   what you were supposed to do with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3327">TS</a>]

00:55:28   thing because no one had ever seen in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3328">TS</a>]

00:55:29   control like that before and I guess you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3329">TS</a>]

00:55:31   could kind of hear it with there was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3331">TS</a>]

00:55:32   dial but you weren't sure how to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3332">TS</a>]

00:55:33   manipulate it with your mouse cursor you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3333">TS</a>]

00:55:35   know which touch you guys is easier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3335">TS</a>]

00:55:36   because I think if you put that in front [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3336">TS</a>]

00:55:37   of a kid as a touch you I they might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3337">TS</a>]

00:55:39   just swipe it with the finger and figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3339">TS</a>]

00:55:40   it out but with a mouse we weren't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3340">TS</a>]

00:55:42   thinking quite the same thing there so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3342">TS</a>]

00:55:44   you can definitely go too far in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3344">TS</a>]

00:55:47   direction now fast forwarding to Mac OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3347">TS</a>]

00:55:52   10 right all the things that we just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3352">TS</a>]

00:55:54   subscribed from system 7 and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3354">TS</a>]

00:55:56   original Mac OS and stuff like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3356">TS</a>]

00:55:58   we've seen in Mac OS 10 and I would say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3358">TS</a>]

00:56:01   to lesser degrees so they did the brush [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3361">TS</a>]

00:56:02   metal thing but it wasn't a custom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3362">TS</a>]

00:56:04   control you can make your own brush [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3364">TS</a>]

00:56:06   metal windows and no one really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3366">TS</a>]

00:56:07   understood why you would make something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3367">TS</a>]

00:56:08   brush metal did have to do with mood was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3368">TS</a>]

00:56:10   it just fashion was there some was it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3370">TS</a>]

00:56:13   more fun to do brush metal people made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3373">TS</a>]

00:56:15   their own decisions about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3375">TS</a>]

00:56:17   but eventually Apple rained it back in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3377">TS</a>]

00:56:20   and said okay it's clear that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3380">TS</a>]

00:56:21   advantage of brush metal whatever they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3381">TS</a>]

00:56:23   may be are outweighed by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3383">TS</a>]

00:56:24   disadvantages of people just using it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3384">TS</a>]

00:56:25   willy-nilly so we'll bring it back down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3385">TS</a>]

00:56:27   so I think leopard was there when they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3387">TS</a>]

00:56:28   unified everything that was perhaps the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3388">TS</a>]

00:56:31   most stayed they have ever been with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3391">TS</a>]

00:56:33   user interface elements where they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3393">TS</a>]

00:56:35   unified all their applications to a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3395">TS</a>]

00:56:37   single appearance and they hadn't start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3397">TS</a>]

00:56:40   going off and weird iOS directions yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3400">TS</a>]

00:56:41   so it's kind of like a quiet period for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3401">TS</a>]

00:56:43   for the UI but Mac OS 10 introduced a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3403">TS</a>]

00:56:46   new feature to user interface something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3406">TS</a>]

00:56:49   that people usually talk about because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3409">TS</a>]

00:56:50   you can't see it that well in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3410">TS</a>]

00:56:51   screenshots that Mac OS 10 this is an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3411">TS</a>]

00:56:54   example of a togs increased bandwidth it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3414">TS</a>]

00:56:58   might be on appearance it added [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3418">TS</a>]

00:57:00   animation so this is another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3420">TS</a>]

00:57:03   characteristic of user interface that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3423">TS</a>]

00:57:04   doesn't show up in screenshots but now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3424">TS</a>]

00:57:06   we've suddenly had the technology to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3426">TS</a>]

00:57:08   make things move and how they move would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3428">TS</a>]

00:57:10   define how they felt to you so there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3430">TS</a>]

00:57:13   between a picture of a cat to see a cat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3433">TS</a>]

00:57:14   walk a cat feels different once you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3434">TS</a>]

00:57:16   how it moves right so once animation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3436">TS</a>]

00:57:19   became a valid vector for innovation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3439">TS</a>]

00:57:23   Apple threw it on top of Mac OS 10 and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3443">TS</a>]

00:57:25   said oh for example we're gonna do a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3445">TS</a>]

00:57:27   genie to a dock we're going to make the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3447">TS</a>]

00:57:28   window animate in the smooth way down to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3448">TS</a>]

00:57:31   the dock now that was whimsical right it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3451">TS</a>]

00:57:34   was fun and it was interesting in people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3454">TS</a>]

00:57:35   all who do nod when they first saw it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3455">TS</a>]

00:57:37   but actually also served a purpose let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3457">TS</a>]

00:57:38   you know where the heck to your window [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3458">TS</a>]

00:57:39   went because if you click that minimize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3459">TS</a>]

00:57:41   widget you have no idea that when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3461">TS</a>]

00:57:42   minimize windows they go to the docks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3462">TS</a>]

00:57:43   boom you you click the the window widget [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3463">TS</a>]

00:57:46   and the window disappeared you be like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3466">TS</a>]

00:57:47   where'd my window go mm-hmm and if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3467">TS</a>]

00:57:49   didn't notice that a tiny white square [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3469">TS</a>]

00:57:50   it appeared in your dock you know maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3470">TS</a>]

00:57:52   you wouldn't notice that and the dock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3472">TS</a>]

00:57:53   itself animates as well it moves the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3473">TS</a>]

00:57:55   dock slowly expands to accept the window [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3475">TS</a>]

00:57:57   going into it so the Genie thing was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3477">TS</a>]

00:57:59   like a great example firing on all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3479">TS</a>]

00:58:01   cylinders in terms of the UI it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3481">TS</a>]

00:58:03   whimsical it was fun it set a mood and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3483">TS</a>]

00:58:05   it served an important function you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3485">TS</a>]

00:58:07   could not do without it all right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3487">TS</a>]

00:58:09   with the advent of core animation in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3489">TS</a>]

00:58:11   later versions of Mac OS 10 animations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3491">TS</a>]

00:58:13   just everywhere now and in most cases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3493">TS</a>]

00:58:15   animation does all those things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3495">TS</a>]

00:58:16   continues to do all those things it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3496">TS</a>]

00:58:18   conveys information that's important to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3498">TS</a>]

00:58:20   the user it's fun and whimsical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3500">TS</a>]

00:58:23   interesting and it sets the mood for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3503">TS</a>]

00:58:25   operating system this is a smooth place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3505">TS</a>]

00:58:26   where things glide from place to place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3506">TS</a>]

00:58:28   and they don't jump from one place the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3508">TS</a>]

00:58:30   other it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3510">TS</a>]

00:58:31   it's not garish it's not frantic or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3511">TS</a>]

00:58:33   off-putting it's just it's relaxing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3513">TS</a>]

00:58:35   calm and casual and things glide like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3515">TS</a>]

00:58:37   water it puts me into the flow right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3517">TS</a>]

00:58:41   yeah this is this is an example of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3521">TS</a>]

00:58:45   things don't have to look the same to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3525">TS</a>]

00:58:47   behave to look exactly the same like so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3527">TS</a>]

00:58:49   for the genie effect you can do it where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3529">TS</a>]

00:58:51   it squishes the window down into a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3531">TS</a>]

00:58:52   little funnel you can do the one where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3532">TS</a>]

00:58:54   it scales [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3534">TS</a>]

00:58:55   I'm sure they had other effects like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3535">TS</a>]

00:58:56   don't think that used to be one that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3536">TS</a>]

00:58:57   where it sheared it all these different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3537">TS</a>]

00:58:59   animation effects don't confuse people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3539">TS</a>]

00:59:01   in terms of what does it mean when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3541">TS</a>]

00:59:03   window scales down to the dock versus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3543">TS</a>]

00:59:04   when it loses down there like it's being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3544">TS</a>]

00:59:06   squeezed into a genie bottle it means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3546">TS</a>]

00:59:07   the same thing people don't get confused [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3547">TS</a>]

00:59:09   about it at all now is some more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3549">TS</a>]

00:59:12   examples from today that have people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3552">TS</a>]

00:59:14   angry and freaking out when they move [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3554">TS</a>]

00:59:17   the window widgets and iTunes do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3557">TS</a>]

00:59:18   remember that it was like iTunes 10 yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3558">TS</a>]

00:59:20   and the is it been the mini player and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3560">TS</a>]

00:59:22   all the players in some some versions of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3562">TS</a>]

00:59:25   some modes the window widgets and iTunes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3565">TS</a>]

00:59:28   are stacked vertically like stoplights [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3568">TS</a>]

00:59:30   instead of horizontally like they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3570">TS</a>]

00:59:31   every place else now this is an example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3571">TS</a>]

00:59:36   of where if you were to ask somebody and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3576">TS</a>]

00:59:39   they said where's the closed widget on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3579">TS</a>]

00:59:40   the iTunes window they would look for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3580">TS</a>]

00:59:41   the red dot and they would find it right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3581">TS</a>]

00:59:43   whereas the minimized waited all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3583">TS</a>]

00:59:44   yellow dot and they would find it it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3584">TS</a>]

00:59:46   clearly identifiable as the clothes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3586">TS</a>]

00:59:50   minimize and zoom widgets they're just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3590">TS</a>]

00:59:52   in different places right but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3592">TS</a>]

00:59:55   downside is that those widgets changing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3595">TS</a>]

00:59:59   their appearance would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3599">TS</a>]

00:59:59   their appearance would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3599">TS</a>]

01:00:00   we've been fine they kept the appearance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3600">TS</a>]

01:00:01   but they change the position and what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3601">TS</a>]

01:00:02   that does is it breaks your muscle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3602">TS</a>]

01:00:03   memories when you reach for like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3603">TS</a>]

01:00:04   minimize widget it's not where it used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3604">TS</a>]

01:00:06   to be right when you reach for the zoom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3606">TS</a>]

01:00:08   box the change from any player to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3608">TS</a>]

01:00:10   other player it's not where it used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3610">TS</a>]

01:00:11   be so you end up reaching with your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3611">TS</a>]

01:00:13   mouse to the wrong spot briefly and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3613">TS</a>]

01:00:14   correcting if they move all the widgets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3614">TS</a>]

01:00:17   there eventually your muscle man we were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3617">TS</a>]

01:00:19   to retrain itself but if you just move [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3619">TS</a>]

01:00:20   it in one application you're never going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3620">TS</a>]

01:00:24   to retrain your hand your hand is going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3624">TS</a>]

01:00:25   to be retrained for all the the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3625">TS</a>]

01:00:27   windows that are normal and when you hit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3627">TS</a>]

01:00:29   the iTunes window you will forever be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3629">TS</a>]

01:00:31   going to their slightly the wrong place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3631">TS</a>]

01:00:32   going it's like a little it's like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3632">TS</a>]

01:00:33   little pebble in your shoe yeah you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3633">TS</a>]

01:00:35   it starts off it's not a big deal but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3635">TS</a>]

01:00:37   eventually like aw for the love of God [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3637">TS</a>]

01:00:38   put the thing back where it's supposed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3638">TS</a>]

01:00:39   to be that's why I was so annoyed by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3639">TS</a>]

01:00:42   moving this thing is because what's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3642">TS</a>]

01:00:44   advantage did you change the appearance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3644">TS</a>]

01:00:45   to change in the mood no is it whimsical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3645">TS</a>]

01:00:47   and fun no all you did was put in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3647">TS</a>]

01:00:50   different place or the one I try to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3650">TS</a>]

01:00:51   click on it I miss slightly and I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3651">TS</a>]

01:00:53   never gonna learn it because every other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3653">TS</a>]

01:00:54   widget is in a different place so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3654">TS</a>]

01:00:56   applied that hack that puts them back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3656">TS</a>]

01:00:58   into the right place this would be an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3658">TS</a>]

01:00:59   example of a change that not many people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3659">TS</a>]

01:01:01   were bothered by you didn't you know you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3661">TS</a>]

01:01:03   heard a little bit of noise from people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3663">TS</a>]

01:01:05   here and there but people just got used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3665">TS</a>]

01:01:06   to it but I would say this is this is an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3666">TS</a>]

01:01:08   example the worst possible change that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3668">TS</a>]

01:01:10   Apple can do because it had none of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3670">TS</a>]

01:01:11   advantages of changing the appearance or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3671">TS</a>]

01:01:13   any of the other ways it goo is working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3673">TS</a>]

01:01:14   and a disadvantage that just you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3674">TS</a>]

01:01:17   grows with time and grates on you all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3677">TS</a>]

01:01:20   right let me stop you we're going to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3680">TS</a>]

01:01:21   our second sponsor break this one is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3681">TS</a>]

01:01:23   pretty cool this is my MailChimp but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3683">TS</a>]

01:01:25   it's it's a special thing they've built [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3685">TS</a>]

01:01:27   called chimp kit have you heard about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3687">TS</a>]

01:01:29   this John maybe you're unplugging you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3689">TS</a>]

01:01:30   should unplug now I did unplugging on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3690">TS</a>]

01:01:33   back ok you heard about this chimp kit I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3693">TS</a>]

01:01:35   have this is very cool so if one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3695">TS</a>]

01:01:39   problems that you have as an iOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3699">TS</a>]

01:01:40   developer is getting in touch with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3700">TS</a>]

01:01:43   people who are actually using and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3703">TS</a>]

01:01:44   downloading your apps you pretty much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3704">TS</a>]

01:01:46   you can you don't know who's using and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3706">TS</a>]

01:01:48   buying your apps Apple insulates you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3708">TS</a>]

01:01:50   from that and that's certainly a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3710">TS</a>]

01:01:52   thing for the consumer but what if the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3712">TS</a>]

01:01:53   consumer actually wants to hear about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3713">TS</a>]

01:01:55   the stuff that you're working on how do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3715">TS</a>]

01:01:57   you tell them well you have to send them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3717">TS</a>]

01:01:59   out to an external website they have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3719">TS</a>]

01:02:01   sign up with the form whatever that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3721">TS</a>]

01:02:03   mess and so this is MailChimp way of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3723">TS</a>]

01:02:05   trying to address this issue and they've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3725">TS</a>]

01:02:08   created this thing called chip kit and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3728">TS</a>]

01:02:09   basically it's a drop-in I mean you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3729">TS</a>]

01:02:12   customize it style [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3732">TS</a>]

01:02:13   it anyway you want but it's a drop-in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3733">TS</a>]

01:02:15   component that you put right into your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3735">TS</a>]

01:02:18   app all the code is there it's all open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3738">TS</a>]

01:02:20   sourced and what it does is it allows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3740">TS</a>]

01:02:22   you to keep in touch with your users by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3742">TS</a>]

01:02:25   providing it with a simple signup form [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3745">TS</a>]

01:02:27   so that they can get your newsletter and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3747">TS</a>]

01:02:29   MailChimp also lets you have 2,000 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3749">TS</a>]

01:02:31   subscribers for free so so not only is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3751">TS</a>]

01:02:35   the chimp kit free but you can have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3755">TS</a>]

01:02:37   2,000 subscribers for free and integrate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3757">TS</a>]

01:02:41   this into your app so that that way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3761">TS</a>]

01:02:42   people can just with a couple taps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3762">TS</a>]

01:02:44   they're signed up there getting your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3764">TS</a>]

01:02:46   newsletter they're hearing what other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3766">TS</a>]

01:02:48   cool apps you're building you can get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3768">TS</a>]

01:02:49   directly in touch with them so if you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3769">TS</a>]

01:02:51   building an iOS app you've got to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3771">TS</a>]

01:02:53   this you've just got to put it in you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3773">TS</a>]

01:02:54   can find out more about it by going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3774">TS</a>]

01:02:56   MailChimp calm slash chimp kit I want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3776">TS</a>]

01:03:00   see this in every iOS app now because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3780">TS</a>]

01:03:02   there's a lot of times yeah how do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3782">TS</a>]

01:03:03   find out that Angry Birds Rio came out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3783">TS</a>]

01:03:06   if you forget to go to the site every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3786">TS</a>]

01:03:08   day you wouldn't know it's all I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3788">TS</a>]

01:03:11   saying I love the fact that they prefix [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3791">TS</a>]

01:03:15   everything with chimp like back in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3795">TS</a>]

01:03:17   old days every Mac application had Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3797">TS</a>]

01:03:18   Mac right Mac Paint Mac you draw Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3798">TS</a>]

01:03:20   this and now it's chimp chimp this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3800">TS</a>]

01:03:22   that's right yeah exactly everything is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3802">TS</a>]

01:03:24   it's about is to anything valid prefix [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3804">TS</a>]

01:03:26   for any kind of product if your company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3806">TS</a>]

01:03:28   name is MailChimp yeah all right so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3808">TS</a>]

01:03:32   last little bit I've got on the UI thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3812">TS</a>]

01:03:34   is the most recent example is the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3814">TS</a>]

01:03:38   iCal in Lion which can we can we talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3818">TS</a>]

01:03:41   about this yeah cuz it leaked all over I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3821">TS</a>]

01:03:43   just pasted a URL into the chat room [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3823">TS</a>]

01:03:45   it's a ARS technica article that shows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3825">TS</a>]

01:03:47   the very top what I Cal looks like in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3827">TS</a>]

01:03:50   the second Developer Preview of I know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3830">TS</a>]

01:03:53   haven't installed that yet what are you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3833">TS</a>]

01:03:55   running that on II rebooting into it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3835">TS</a>]

01:03:56   what are you doing I read into it I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3836">TS</a>]

01:03:58   another drive dedicated just for her [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3838">TS</a>]

01:04:00   lion I had more machines i wouldnt have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3840">TS</a>]

01:04:02   to do that but yeah so people who aren't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3842">TS</a>]

01:04:05   looking at the screenshot right now the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3845">TS</a>]

01:04:07   iCal in Lion Developer Preview to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3847">TS</a>]

01:04:11   top of the window where it's normally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3851">TS</a>]

01:04:12   like the title bar on the toolbar that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3852">TS</a>]

01:04:14   whole thing is made to look like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3854">TS</a>]

01:04:15   leather and underneath the toolbar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3855">TS</a>]

01:04:18   there's a big thick row what looks like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3858">TS</a>]

01:04:20   a row be white stitching going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3860">TS</a>]

01:04:22   it's the stents what holds the paper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3862">TS</a>]

01:04:24   into the leather binding right and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3864">TS</a>]

01:04:26   the paper portion like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3866">TS</a>]

01:04:27   where the calendar is it looks like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3867">TS</a>]

01:04:29   tear-off that calendar we got torn off a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3869">TS</a>]

01:04:31   few pages beforehand there's a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3871">TS</a>]

01:04:33   scrim of paper that didn't get torn off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3873">TS</a>]

01:04:36   all the way right all right so the word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3876">TS</a>]

01:04:39   for this I should have put this in my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3879">TS</a>]

01:04:40   notes but is it someone else will say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3880">TS</a>]

01:04:41   does it skeuomorphic something like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3881">TS</a>]

01:04:43   the word for making a interface look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3883">TS</a>]

01:04:47   like a physical thing that they really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3887">TS</a>]

01:04:53   has no reason to correspond with so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3893">TS</a>]

01:04:54   know it this let's make it look like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3894">TS</a>]

01:04:56   physical calendar let's make the user [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3896">TS</a>]

01:04:57   interface look like a physical calendar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3897">TS</a>]

01:04:59   even though it is not a physical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3899">TS</a>]

01:05:01   calendar and has no reason to be bound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3901">TS</a>]

01:05:02   by the same things now here's we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3902">TS</a>]

01:05:04   going to say about the crazy iCal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3904">TS</a>]

01:05:06   weather whether it actually ships in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3906">TS</a>]

01:05:08   final version the operating system or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3908">TS</a>]

01:05:09   not so first let's look at what they did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3909">TS</a>]

01:05:11   did they move anything around not really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3911">TS</a>]

01:05:14   the window widgets are in the same place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3914">TS</a>]

01:05:15   there are buttons that are the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3915">TS</a>]

01:05:17   there's a tab control which is the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3917">TS</a>]

01:05:19   as the standard tab controls search [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3919">TS</a>]

01:05:20   boxes in the same place same size and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3920">TS</a>]

01:05:23   shape so this is not going to mess with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3923">TS</a>]

01:05:25   you in terms of I don't know where the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3925">TS</a>]

01:05:26   controls are where's the search box [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3926">TS</a>]

01:05:28   where is the clothes widget how do I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3928">TS</a>]

01:05:29   change view everything is exactly where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3929">TS</a>]

01:05:31   you would expect it in the same size you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3931">TS</a>]

01:05:33   would expect it they didn't make the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3933">TS</a>]

01:05:34   target smaller they didn't make the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3934">TS</a>]

01:05:36   things bigger so they're taking up more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3936">TS</a>]

01:05:38   room so there are no problems there no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3938">TS</a>]

01:05:42   is it whimsical and fun well that really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3942">TS</a>]

01:05:45   depends on your point of view I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3945">TS</a>]

01:05:48   definitely say it's whimsical yes you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3948">TS</a>]

01:05:50   know what whether or not it's fun I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3950">TS</a>]

01:05:52   don't know it what it comes down to I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3952">TS</a>]

01:05:54   think is the reason people are screaming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3954">TS</a>]

01:05:56   about iCal is that if you think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3956">TS</a>]

01:06:00   ugly then you don't like it all right so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3960">TS</a>]

01:06:03   it's not a functional problem and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3963">TS</a>]

01:06:05   not even that there are spoil sports and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3965">TS</a>]

01:06:07   don't want interfaces to be fun because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3967">TS</a>]

01:06:08   there are plenty of Apple interfaces [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3968">TS</a>]

01:06:09   that are fun where people think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3969">TS</a>]

01:06:12   appropriate or interesting but if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3972">TS</a>]

01:06:13   think if you think it's ugly or if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3973">TS</a>]

01:06:15   think I Cal is a serious application and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3975">TS</a>]

01:06:17   it should not be this whimsical and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3977">TS</a>]

01:06:18   interesting those are two reasons why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3978">TS</a>]

01:06:20   you might not like this and it's tough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3980">TS</a>]

01:06:21   for Apple to make judgments on that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3981">TS</a>]

01:06:24   because Apple sort of the one that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3984">TS</a>]

01:06:25   dictates the the mood of the application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3985">TS</a>]

01:06:28   they say we want we want calendaring to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3988">TS</a>]

01:06:30   be fun so we're going to make our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3990">TS</a>]

01:06:31   application you know more fun and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3991">TS</a>]

01:06:33   interesting because we think that's what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3993">TS</a>]

01:06:35   people want an apple probably has some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3995">TS</a>]

01:06:37   support in that area but they say look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3997">TS</a>]

01:06:38   what we did on the iPad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3998">TS</a>]

01:06:39   all our apps on the iPad or so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/3999">TS</a>]

01:06:41   of fun and whimsical and sometimes look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4001">TS</a>]

01:06:43   like physical applications and hey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4003">TS</a>]

01:06:44   people seem to love those so why don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4004">TS</a>]

01:06:48   we do the same thing on the Mac No maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4008">TS</a>]

01:06:49   it's a different user base maybe they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4009">TS</a>]

01:06:50   misjudged the way most people will react [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4010">TS</a>]

01:06:52   to this or maybe they'll just stick to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4012">TS</a>]

01:06:54   their guns ignore the the the cries for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4014">TS</a>]

01:06:57   you know against this look and just ship [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4017">TS</a>]

01:07:00   it and say you know it's not the end of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4020">TS</a>]

01:07:02   the world people got used to it the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4022">TS</a>]

01:07:04   first time you show it new Mac user this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4024">TS</a>]

01:07:05   thing will say oh wow look at that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4025">TS</a>]

01:07:07   then from that point on whenever they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4027">TS</a>]

01:07:08   see the weird application with a title [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4028">TS</a>]

01:07:11   bar looks like the outside of a football [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4031">TS</a>]

01:07:13   let's say oh that's iCal maybe that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4033">TS</a>]

01:07:15   what they're going to do is define a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4035">TS</a>]

01:07:16   brand for this and you know from this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4036">TS</a>]

01:07:21   point on this is way would be the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4041">TS</a>]

01:07:23   that I Cal looks or maybe they'll change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4043">TS</a>]

01:07:24   them on another major version but in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4044">TS</a>]

01:07:26   end of the day I don't think this change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4046">TS</a>]

01:07:29   is any more radical than any of Apple's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4049">TS</a>]

01:07:32   own official appearance schemes than any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4052">TS</a>]

01:07:34   kaleidoscope scheme then the original [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4054">TS</a>]

01:07:36   control panel on the original Mac from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4056">TS</a>]

01:07:38   day one it's not any worse than any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4058">TS</a>]

01:07:41   other things I've done in fact I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4061">TS</a>]

01:07:43   it's better in many respects in it at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4063">TS</a>]

01:07:45   the very least they're not breaking a UI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4065">TS</a>]

01:07:47   that works they're not making the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4067">TS</a>]

01:07:48   control so far away from what they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4068">TS</a>]

01:07:50   normally look like the people don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4070">TS</a>]

01:07:51   understand what they do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4071">TS</a>]

01:07:53   they've just simply chosen a fashion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4073">TS</a>]

01:07:55   that people may or may not agree with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4075">TS</a>]

01:07:57   now there is if there is a checkbox in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4077">TS</a>]

01:07:59   there that said that you could revert [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4079">TS</a>]

01:08:02   back just by checking a box and switch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4082">TS</a>]

01:08:06   to non leather-bound version of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4086">TS</a>]

01:08:09   calendar would you I don't use iCal so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4089">TS</a>]

01:08:13   have no opinion one way or the other I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4093">TS</a>]

01:08:15   think I probably would because I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4095">TS</a>]

01:08:17   it's ugly right and that's a subjective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4097">TS</a>]

01:08:19   you think based on fashion I just simply [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4099">TS</a>]

01:08:21   think it's ugly and off-putting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4101">TS</a>]

01:08:23   now people as people will ask John what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4103">TS</a>]

01:08:25   do you use instead of iCal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4105">TS</a>]

01:08:26   eyes Google Calendar because I can share [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4106">TS</a>]

01:08:30   the calendars with all the rest of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4110">TS</a>]

01:08:31   family and we can update each other's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4111">TS</a>]

01:08:32   calendars and you can you can use iCal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4112">TS</a>]

01:08:35   to talk to a Google Calendar with I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4115">TS</a>]

01:08:37   I think I actually do have iCal set up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4117">TS</a>]

01:08:40   to sync up my Google Calendar but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4120">TS</a>]

01:08:41   simply never launched it ok maybe when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4121">TS</a>]

01:08:43   get my own iPad I will start using my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4123">TS</a>]

01:08:45   caching right I check out busy Cal yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4125">TS</a>]

01:08:48   I've heard good things about those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4128">TS</a>]

01:08:49   things I'm not sure about using not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4129">TS</a>]

01:08:51   big calendaring guy the only thing I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4131">TS</a>]

01:08:52   using my calendar for it to keep up with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4132">TS</a>]

01:08:53   like family events so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4133">TS</a>]

01:08:55   when we have to take up the kids or you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4135">TS</a>]

01:08:56   know when we have appointments or things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4136">TS</a>]

01:08:58   stuff like that what I don't what I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4138">TS</a>]

01:09:00   don't like the only thing I don't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4140">TS</a>]

01:09:02   about I I agree that is kind of ugly but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4142">TS</a>]

01:09:04   I feel like the interface might grow on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4144">TS</a>]

01:09:06   me a little bit I just don't like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4146">TS</a>]

01:09:08   little the little shim a paper that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4148">TS</a>]

01:09:10   left I don't like like that really bugs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4150">TS</a>]

01:09:11   me seeing a little torn off remnants it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4151">TS</a>]

01:09:15   does this because I like you know I what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4155">TS</a>]

01:09:16   I like about Mac os10 is it's clean it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4156">TS</a>]

01:09:19   nice it's still it has a bit of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4159">TS</a>]

01:09:23   personality to it without being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4163">TS</a>]

01:09:24   over-the-top and then you look at this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4164">TS</a>]

01:09:27   and you're like why leave a little rip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4167">TS</a>]

01:09:29   piece of pay I just don't like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4169">TS</a>]

01:09:31   because I in real life if I had that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4171">TS</a>]

01:09:32   little rip piece of paper I'd go get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4172">TS</a>]

01:09:35   little you know safety pin or pencil [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4175">TS</a>]

01:09:38   eraser and remove that I don't like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4178">TS</a>]

01:09:40   I don't like I don't like notebooks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4180">TS</a>]

01:09:41   where you tear stuff off if the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4181">TS</a>]

01:09:43   perforation isn't really good that's one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4183">TS</a>]

01:09:45   of the reasons why I really like these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4185">TS</a>]

01:09:46   like the field notes calendar the field [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4186">TS</a>]

01:09:49   notes calendar is great because it just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4189">TS</a>]

01:09:50   has those two staples and when you rip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4190">TS</a>]

01:09:53   off the the month calendar there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4193">TS</a>]

01:09:56   nothing left you don't have that binding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4196">TS</a>]

01:09:57   up that just bugs me you get buildup on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4197">TS</a>]

01:10:00   the staples too eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4200">TS</a>]

01:10:01   no no because these staples are pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4201">TS</a>]

01:10:03   firm and they actually stand out in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4203">TS</a>]

01:10:07   way they're very strong rigid staples [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4207">TS</a>]

01:10:09   that they used so you actually have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4209">TS</a>]

01:10:10   space there and there's nothing we get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4210">TS</a>]

01:10:12   stuck under there so you know there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4212">TS</a>]

01:10:14   big overlap between people who have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4214">TS</a>]

01:10:15   vague sort of OCD tendencies and people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4215">TS</a>]

01:10:18   who are heavily into computers because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4218">TS</a>]

01:10:19   computers are sort of that one place in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4219">TS</a>]

01:10:21   the world where you can make things just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4221">TS</a>]

01:10:22   super fancy it's not it's not a physical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4222">TS</a>]

01:10:24   world so you can you can align things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4224">TS</a>]

01:10:26   perfectly for example if you're into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4226">TS</a>]

01:10:28   like aligning pixels or whatever right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4228">TS</a>]

01:10:29   you can erase things completely but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4229">TS</a>]

01:10:31   can't do on real paper and so people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4231">TS</a>]

01:10:33   are drawn to that because they get upset [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4233">TS</a>]

01:10:34   in real life by things that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4234">TS</a>]

01:10:36   physically imperfect were drawn to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4236">TS</a>]

01:10:38   computers at a young age and now are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4238">TS</a>]

01:10:40   most enthusiastic computer users so when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4240">TS</a>]

01:10:42   you give them an interface that brings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4242">TS</a>]

01:10:44   the things they didn't like about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4244">TS</a>]

01:10:45   physical world into the they're formerly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4245">TS</a>]

01:10:48   clean place yeah they've got upset too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4248">TS</a>]

01:10:50   I don't think that's a valid reason for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4250">TS</a>]

01:10:52   Apple not to do this because the vast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4252">TS</a>]

01:10:54   majority people are not inclined like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4254">TS</a>]

01:10:57   that and others think it's cute and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4257">TS</a>]

01:10:58   never give it a second thought after [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4258">TS</a>]

01:10:59   after that right all right so I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4259">TS</a>]

01:11:01   that is not a reason for them to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4261">TS</a>]

01:11:03   well you know we are we are violating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4263">TS</a>]

01:11:05   this perfect space that previously was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4265">TS</a>]

01:11:07   place where we these limitations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4267">TS</a>]

01:11:09   apply if if the entire world were like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4269">TS</a>]

01:11:13   you and I then yes they would they would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4273">TS</a>]

01:11:15   have to get rid of it but our world is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4275">TS</a>]

01:11:17   not like you and I so I think a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4277">TS</a>]

01:11:19   people would think III really listening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4279">TS</a>]

01:11:21   to the show will agree that yeah but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4281">TS</a>]

01:11:24   people just a regular regular person or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4284">TS</a>]

01:11:26   a regular human is gonna look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4286">TS</a>]

01:11:28   distance no that's cool looks is like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4288">TS</a>]

01:11:29   calendar man this is like calendar yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4289">TS</a>]

01:11:32   or not notice it at all which is the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4292">TS</a>]

01:11:35   case there would be most common and for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4295">TS</a>]

01:11:36   example if I was to put this thing in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4296">TS</a>]

01:11:37   front of my parents they would I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4297">TS</a>]

01:11:39   take I would have to ask them like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4299">TS</a>]

01:11:41   see anything what do you think about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4301">TS</a>]

01:11:42   this he's anything different first they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4302">TS</a>]

01:11:43   wouldn't even recognize that the window [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4303">TS</a>]

01:11:44   title bar is different right like they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4304">TS</a>]

01:11:47   would just think I'll you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4307">TS</a>]

01:11:48   wouldn't occur to them that there is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4308">TS</a>]

01:11:49   standard window title bar and this one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4309">TS</a>]

01:11:51   is not standard in a second if you try [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4311">TS</a>]

01:11:52   to get to see those little pieces of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4312">TS</a>]

01:11:53   paper forget it like and when you did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4313">TS</a>]

01:11:55   pointed out that they like oh so what am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4315">TS</a>]

01:11:57   I supposed to be seeing here yeah looks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4317">TS</a>]

01:11:58   like baby paper whatever like so here's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4318">TS</a>]

01:12:01   something now in in the past when Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4321">TS</a>]

01:12:04   did for the most part when they came out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4324">TS</a>]

01:12:06   with different styles of window chrome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4326">TS</a>]

01:12:11   like brushed metal brushed aluminum uh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4331">TS</a>]

01:12:14   you you could use that as a developer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4334">TS</a>]

01:12:17   you could say I want a brushed metal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4337">TS</a>]

01:12:19   look for my app you know you could make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4339">TS</a>]

01:12:22   an app that used brush metal and you you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4342">TS</a>]

01:12:25   would be you would be defamed by your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4345">TS</a>]

01:12:28   user group but I mean you could you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4348">TS</a>]

01:12:30   could do that do you do you think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4350">TS</a>]

01:12:32   these unique styles are going to be I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4352">TS</a>]

01:12:36   not I haven't looked at the the lion SDK [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4356">TS</a>]

01:12:39   at all do you know if these are going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4359">TS</a>]

01:12:40   be available if you heard any discussion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4360">TS</a>]

01:12:42   of this like if I wanted to make an app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4362">TS</a>]

01:12:44   could I grab the leather binding and use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4364">TS</a>]

01:12:46   that it's looking I think brush metal is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4366">TS</a>]

01:12:49   an aberration like I said all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4369">TS</a>]

01:12:50   previous cases where they made custom UI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4370">TS</a>]

01:12:52   is like the cd-player thing or that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4372">TS</a>]

01:12:54   know any other application that look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4374">TS</a>]

01:12:55   different that was not available to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4375">TS</a>]

01:12:57   third-party developers brush metal was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4377">TS</a>]

01:12:58   one of the first times you know in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4378">TS</a>]

01:13:00   Mac os10 era they got completely got rid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4380">TS</a>]

01:13:01   of theming right but they experimented [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4381">TS</a>]

01:13:04   with all sorts of new UI is like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4384">TS</a>]

01:13:05   drawer member drawers popping out of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4385">TS</a>]

01:13:07   ends and sheets and it was the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4387">TS</a>]

01:13:08   time they'd gone back to the drawing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4388">TS</a>]

01:13:09   board and said are there some new parts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4389">TS</a>]

01:13:11   that we can put it in our parts bin and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4391">TS</a>]

01:13:12   one of those parts was a window that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4392">TS</a>]

01:13:14   looks different and that was a change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4394">TS</a>]

01:13:15   because in the past there had not been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4395">TS</a>]

01:13:17   such radical different looks in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4397">TS</a>]

01:13:19   standard sort of tool box for building [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4399">TS</a>]

01:13:21   things and I think they decided [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4401">TS</a>]

01:13:23   that experiment was not successful and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4403">TS</a>]

01:13:25   then even though Apple thought they knew [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4405">TS</a>]

01:13:27   when using brush metal was appropriate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4407">TS</a>]

01:13:29   if you put it in the tool box it gets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4409">TS</a>]

01:13:31   used far and wide and in ways that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4411">TS</a>]

01:13:34   didn't think it was appropriate so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4414">TS</a>]

01:13:36   think they are back to keeping the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4416">TS</a>]

01:13:38   toolbox pared down and most definitely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4418">TS</a>]

01:13:40   not providing you with a way to make the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4420">TS</a>]

01:13:42   top of your window leather not providing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4422">TS</a>]

01:13:44   you with a way to make it would like in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4424">TS</a>]

01:13:45   GarageBand I'm not regiments they like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4425">TS</a>]

01:13:47   that but apples Applications photo booth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4427">TS</a>]

01:13:49   you know even things like iMovie you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4429">TS</a>]

01:13:51   know they will do custom controls that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4431">TS</a>]

01:13:53   they feel are appropriate or even custom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4433">TS</a>]

01:13:55   windows entirely they feel are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4435">TS</a>]

01:13:56   appropriate for their applications but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4436">TS</a>]

01:13:57   they will not provide third-party [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4437">TS</a>]

01:13:59   libraries for other people to do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4439">TS</a>]

01:14:00   you want to do it for your app feel free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4440">TS</a>]

01:14:02   to make your own custom control but if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4442">TS</a>]

01:14:03   they make it as easy as a checkbox then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4443">TS</a>]

01:14:05   every single you know a $0.99 shareware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4445">TS</a>]

01:14:09   thing or whatever in the Mac App Store [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4449">TS</a>]

01:14:11   is going to have leather window and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4451">TS</a>]

01:14:12   would just be a plague of leather [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4452">TS</a>]

01:14:14   windows and in places where it's totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4454">TS</a>]

01:14:16   not appropriate so I don't know whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4456">TS</a>]

01:14:18   that's part of the standard UI but I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4458">TS</a>]

01:14:19   going to say 99.9 repeating percent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4459">TS</a>]

01:14:22   chance that that is not a standard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4462">TS</a>]

01:14:24   control that people can use nor will it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4464">TS</a>]

01:14:26   ever be I think that's a reasonable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4466">TS</a>]

01:14:28   decision okay so one last point in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4468">TS</a>]

01:14:33   so Gruber has this talk that he gave a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4473">TS</a>]

01:14:35   while back I don't know if he still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4475">TS</a>]

01:14:37   gives it about the hIgG is dead mm-hmm I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4477">TS</a>]

01:14:40   think it was said one of the early c4c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4480">TS</a>]

01:14:43   gave it talked originally ah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4483">TS</a>]

01:14:44   and despite I I don't know if you just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4484">TS</a>]

01:14:48   hear the title you think that that talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4488">TS</a>]

01:14:50   agrees with what I just talked about or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4490">TS</a>]

01:14:52   disagrees with it but either way I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4492">TS</a>]

01:14:53   it's just a question of looking at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4493">TS</a>]

01:14:55   same issue from two different sides the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4495">TS</a>]

01:14:57   first thing I'm going to say is that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4497">TS</a>]

01:14:59   egg is not dead in the sense that it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4499">TS</a>]

01:15:00   gone yeah I will put this in the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4500">TS</a>]

01:15:02   notes you can link to the Mac os10 human [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4502">TS</a>]

01:15:03   interface guidelines they're on Apple's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4503">TS</a>]

01:15:05   website you can look at them and you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4505">TS</a>]

01:15:07   read them in there every bit as fussy as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4507">TS</a>]

01:15:08   they have ever been this is how big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4508">TS</a>]

01:15:10   button should be this is how far apart [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4510">TS</a>]

01:15:11   there should be down to the pixel this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4511">TS</a>]

01:15:13   is how you should align things these are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4513">TS</a>]

01:15:14   the labels you should put on button name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4514">TS</a>]

01:15:15   right so the type of dialogues you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4515">TS</a>]

01:15:17   should have and this is the image you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4517">TS</a>]

01:15:18   should have in the corner of everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4518">TS</a>]

01:15:19   with this these are the kind of windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4519">TS</a>]

01:15:21   that should have minimize what it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4521">TS</a>]

01:15:22   active and inactive and close it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4522">TS</a>]

01:15:25   every bit as details it used to be and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4525">TS</a>]

01:15:26   if anything it is more detailed oh but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4526">TS</a>]

01:15:29   what what the big is dead is talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4529">TS</a>]

01:15:31   about is basically the idea which I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4531">TS</a>]

01:15:34   don't think was ever a real thing but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4534">TS</a>]

01:15:35   the idea in people's heads [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4535">TS</a>]

01:15:37   that there was a time when the human [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4537">TS</a>]

01:15:38   interface guidelines were gospel and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4538">TS</a>]

01:15:40   had to follow them and that Apple itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4540">TS</a>]

01:15:41   religiously adhered to them and now we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4541">TS</a>]

01:15:43   were in the bad the bad times when Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4543">TS</a>]

01:15:45   has gone crazy that is completely false [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4545">TS</a>]

01:15:47   there was never a time like that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4547">TS</a>]

01:15:50   has always been completely willing to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4550">TS</a>]

01:15:51   whatever the heck it wants with its you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4551">TS</a>]

01:15:52   eyes and try any possible thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4552">TS</a>]

01:15:54   during that time it was also still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4554">TS</a>]

01:15:56   couraging people not do as I say not as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4556">TS</a>]

01:15:58   I do make your UI standard but we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4558">TS</a>]

01:16:00   going to experiment and that has always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4560">TS</a>]

01:16:02   been the case with Apple and it is to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4562">TS</a>]

01:16:03   this day so I don't think there is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4563">TS</a>]

01:16:05   time in the past this golden era of UI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4565">TS</a>]

01:16:08   consistency and if anything the recent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4568">TS</a>]

01:16:11   unification in leopard was one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4571">TS</a>]

01:16:13   comest periods in in the end the and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4573">TS</a>]

01:16:16   Mac UI that has ever existed so I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4576">TS</a>]

01:16:21   definitely would not have gone with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4581">TS</a>]

01:16:22   hIgG as dead as title because it seems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4582">TS</a>]

01:16:24   to lend credence to the idea that there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4584">TS</a>]

01:16:26   was a time when the egg was more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4586">TS</a>]

01:16:27   important than it is now I think the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4587">TS</a>]

01:16:29   entire history of Apple has shown that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4589">TS</a>]

01:16:30   they've always behaved the same way in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4590">TS</a>]

01:16:32   this regard and if anything the wildest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4592">TS</a>]

01:16:34   possible period was that brief period [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4594">TS</a>]

01:16:36   when they were considering doing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4596">TS</a>]

01:16:37   appearance manager but they bailed at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4597">TS</a>]

01:16:38   that at the last minute anyway they left [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4598">TS</a>]

01:16:40   the software in there that you could use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4600">TS</a>]

01:16:41   to to theme with third-party themes and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4601">TS</a>]

01:16:44   I never actually shipped their own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4604">TS</a>]

01:16:45   themes they just sort of leaked out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4605">TS</a>]

01:16:46   Apple but they never really committed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4606">TS</a>]

01:16:49   that so I would say Digg is alive and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4609">TS</a>]

01:16:51   well and behaves exactly as it always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4611">TS</a>]

01:16:55   behaved and Apple is behaving the way it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4615">TS</a>]

01:16:57   is always behaved and users as always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4617">TS</a>]

01:17:00   are behaving the way they always behave [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4620">TS</a>]

01:17:01   making a big fuss over small changes and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4621">TS</a>]

01:17:03   forgetting about things that have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4623">TS</a>]

01:17:04   happened in the past all that said the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4624">TS</a>]

01:17:06   new iCal is still ugly and I hope they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4626">TS</a>]

01:17:08   change it and that we you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4628">TS</a>]

01:17:10   that's something else that you know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4630">TS</a>]

01:17:12   there's still a lot of time they could I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4632">TS</a>]

01:17:14   doubt they will I think this is clearly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4634">TS</a>]

01:17:16   the direction that they're going for all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4636">TS</a>]

01:17:17   their apps yeah do be I was thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4637">TS</a>]

01:17:20   about the previous ugly app I really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4640">TS</a>]

01:17:21   hate it I think this was in leopard 2 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4641">TS</a>]

01:17:23   the way they changed the mail you I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4643">TS</a>]

01:17:24   remember that with those sort of laws [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4644">TS</a>]

01:17:26   and she blew laws and shaped buttons and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4646">TS</a>]

01:17:28   not because you know not because it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4648">TS</a>]

01:17:30   bad UI but because I thought it was ugly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4650">TS</a>]

01:17:31   just plain coming out I thought these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4651">TS</a>]

01:17:33   these are ugly but they're still there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4653">TS</a>]

01:17:35   like how they look they could change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4655">TS</a>]

01:17:37   them a little bit they're not the blue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4657">TS</a>]

01:17:38   capsules that they used to know they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4658">TS</a>]

01:17:39   not blue but they're they're still the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4659">TS</a>]

01:17:41   same sort of strange yeah so but that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4661">TS</a>]

01:17:46   it's it's our onic that the most noise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4666">TS</a>]

01:17:48   you hear on the internet is about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4668">TS</a>]

01:17:50   that people find ugly that there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4670">TS</a>]

01:17:52   actual problem with the UI in terms of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4672">TS</a>]

01:17:54   understandability or functionality but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4674">TS</a>]

01:17:55   just because it's ugly and it grates on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4675">TS</a>]

01:17:57   people well that says a lot though about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4677">TS</a>]

01:17:59   the current state of user interface [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4679">TS</a>]

01:18:02   development is that pretty much all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4682">TS</a>]

01:18:05   these things are relatively useable they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4685">TS</a>]

01:18:07   are providing a consistent interface and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4687">TS</a>]

01:18:10   and now it's really down to two things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4690">TS</a>]

01:18:13   like that but what I don't like is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4693">TS</a>]

01:18:16   you're for these things are forced upon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4696">TS</a>]

01:18:19   you and it's not like they're a third [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4699">TS</a>]

01:18:20   party app where you can look at it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4700">TS</a>]

01:18:22   say oh I'm not going to get that app I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4702">TS</a>]

01:18:24   not going to buy it and you can sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4704">TS</a>]

01:18:25   punish the developer for straying too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4705">TS</a>]

01:18:27   far from the norm by not buying their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4707">TS</a>]

01:18:30   app and create change and affect change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4710">TS</a>]

01:18:33   in that way it's like this way of course [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4713">TS</a>]

01:18:35   I want all the new things that lion has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4715">TS</a>]

01:18:36   to offer and now I've got to use this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4716">TS</a>]

01:18:38   crappy looking calendar app but I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4718">TS</a>]

01:18:40   have any say in it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4720">TS</a>]

01:18:40   see we should have done the Quick Pick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4720">TS</a>]

01:18:42   Mac App Store rejection thing because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4722">TS</a>]

01:18:44   that would have been a point on that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4724">TS</a>]

01:18:44   that you know it's all well and good but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4724">TS</a>]

01:18:47   when there are no alternatives to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4727">TS</a>]

01:18:48   application then people are forced to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4728">TS</a>]

01:18:50   use you're forced to use it you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4730">TS</a>]

01:18:51   forced to support it and and then this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4731">TS</a>]

01:18:53   is the one this is the one thing and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4733">TS</a>]

01:18:55   touched on this but I'll just kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4735">TS</a>]

01:18:57   reiterate it the more Apple does this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4737">TS</a>]

01:19:00   the more it encourages developers to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4740">TS</a>]

01:19:02   it the more it oh it says this is okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4742">TS</a>]

01:19:05   right I'd say I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4745">TS</a>]

01:19:07   maybe maybe developers are encouraged by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4747">TS</a>]

01:19:09   that but but again from from day one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4749">TS</a>]

01:19:13   developers could have looked at what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4753">TS</a>]

01:19:14   Apple did in the control bound side well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4754">TS</a>]

01:19:16   they feel no compunction about making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4756">TS</a>]

01:19:18   completely custom UI so I my word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4758">TS</a>]

01:19:20   processor but I think that the real the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4760">TS</a>]

01:19:22   real Gateway is when you provide them a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4762">TS</a>]

01:19:24   checkbox interface builder to make your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4764">TS</a>]

01:19:26   window brush metal then the floodgates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4766">TS</a>]

01:19:27   open yes yes yes you're right you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4767">TS</a>]

01:19:30   right but at the same time there are a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4770">TS</a>]

01:19:32   lot of developers out there who are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4772">TS</a>]

01:19:34   gonna say ah the regular Mac OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4774">TS</a>]

01:19:36   interface that's boring now they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4776">TS</a>]

01:19:38   doing this other cool stuff and there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4778">TS</a>]

01:19:40   all these iOS apps out there I'm gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4780">TS</a>]

01:19:41   I'm gonna do my own thing now and I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4781">TS</a>]

01:19:44   you know it just I feel like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4784">TS</a>]

01:19:45   proliferation of this is gonna this dis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4785">TS</a>]

01:19:48   encourage I feel like Apple's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4788">TS</a>]

01:19:49   encouraging it by doing this that's what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4789">TS</a>]

01:19:51   I mean I think it's been around forever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4791">TS</a>]

01:19:53   though because the thing is there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4793">TS</a>]

01:19:54   high bar to doing a custom UI like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4794">TS</a>]

01:19:56   you have to have artists on staff or be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4796">TS</a>]

01:19:58   an artist yourself it's not like you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4798">TS</a>]

01:19:59   say I'm going to draw my own leather [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4799">TS</a>]

01:20:01   pattern it will look terrible and no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4801">TS</a>]

01:20:03   matter how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4803">TS</a>]

01:20:03   bad you know and how little taste you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4803">TS</a>]

01:20:05   have you'll recognize that it looks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4805">TS</a>]

01:20:06   terrible you will say Apple this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4806">TS</a>]

01:20:08   something looks like nice and leather I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4808">TS</a>]

01:20:09   scribbled in Photoshop for five minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4809">TS</a>]

01:20:10   and this looks horrible right and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4810">TS</a>]

01:20:12   market will decide that for you because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4812">TS</a>]

01:20:14   Mac applications are supposed to look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4814">TS</a>]

01:20:15   nice but there's been a long long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4815">TS</a>]

01:20:17   history especially in Mac os10 Linde [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4817">TS</a>]

01:20:19   quote-unquote bandwidth of the UI has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4819">TS</a>]

01:20:20   been so high of making completely custom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4820">TS</a>]

01:20:23   UI that look awesome like think of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4823">TS</a>]

01:20:24   something like delicious library where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4824">TS</a>]

01:20:26   the entire UI is basically you know a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4826">TS</a>]

01:20:28   drawing of a book okay show but they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4828">TS</a>]

01:20:31   were so cool and so innovative and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4831">TS</a>]

01:20:33   good that Apple actually had to hire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4833">TS</a>]

01:20:36   their guys away but that's how good they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4836">TS</a>]

01:20:38   were that's when else once Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4838">TS</a>]

01:20:39   basically wants they say we would love [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4839">TS</a>]

01:20:41   it if you had artists that were ours and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4841">TS</a>]

01:20:43   tout as talented as our artists are or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4843">TS</a>]

01:20:45   more talented then you made your apps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4845">TS</a>]

01:20:46   look awesome that's what we want but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4846">TS</a>]

01:20:48   they're not going to come out and say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4848">TS</a>]

01:20:49   you should make a custom UI for your app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4849">TS</a>]

01:20:51   but WABC they're going to say use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4851">TS</a>]

01:20:53   standard controls do not use custom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4853">TS</a>]

01:20:55   controls make your things that and what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4855">TS</a>]

01:20:56   they're trying to say is look if if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4856">TS</a>]

01:21:00   you're going to listen to me when I say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4860">TS</a>]

01:21:02   use standard controls what you hear is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4862">TS</a>]

01:21:03   always use standard controls that means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4863">TS</a>]

01:21:04   you realize you do not have the ability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4864">TS</a>]

01:21:06   to make good looking controls and if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4866">TS</a>]

01:21:08   do have the ability to make good looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4868">TS</a>]

01:21:09   custom controls I know you're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4869">TS</a>]

01:21:10   ignore me anyway so the message that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4870">TS</a>]

01:21:11   they have to say is use standard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4871">TS</a>]

01:21:13   controls because the subtext is trust me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4873">TS</a>]

01:21:17   you cannot make apps as awesome as we as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4877">TS</a>]

01:21:19   we make them you are not an artist your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4879">TS</a>]

01:21:21   developer do not attempt what we are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4881">TS</a>]

01:21:24   doing here we have an entire staff of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4884">TS</a>]

01:21:26   people dedicated to doing this stuff if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4886">TS</a>]

01:21:28   you try to do it you will fail use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4888">TS</a>]

01:21:30   standard controls and the people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4890">TS</a>]

01:21:31   won't fail who really do have artists on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4891">TS</a>]

01:21:33   staff aren't offended by this message [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4893">TS</a>]

01:21:35   they understand who Apple is talking to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4895">TS</a>]

01:21:38   when they say that they don't go back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4898">TS</a>]

01:21:39   and say well I was going to make an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4899">TS</a>]

01:21:40   awesome looking you know delicious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4900">TS</a>]

01:21:42   library interface with with bookshelves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4902">TS</a>]

01:21:44   and stuff but they told me not to no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4904">TS</a>]

01:21:45   they're going to make it with whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4905">TS</a>]

01:21:47   you tell them not to or not or not uh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4907">TS</a>]

01:21:49   you know and the people with the skill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4909">TS</a>]

01:21:51   to do it do it and they come out head [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4911">TS</a>]

01:21:53   and shoulders above everybody else and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4913">TS</a>]

01:21:54   think this is the way Apple wants it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4914">TS</a>]

01:21:55   the way Apple has always wanted they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4915">TS</a>]

01:21:57   not going to tried you for making custom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4917">TS</a>]

01:21:59   controls like they give you Apple Design [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4919">TS</a>]

01:22:00   Awards I think a lot of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4920">TS</a>]

01:22:01   applications that want Apple Design [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4921">TS</a>]

01:22:02   Awards these are applications that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4922">TS</a>]

01:22:04   violate the hIgG ten ways to Sunday but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4924">TS</a>]

01:22:06   if you if you can pull it off if you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4926">TS</a>]

01:22:08   make your app look awesome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4928">TS</a>]

01:22:09   Apple says great thumbs up here's an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4929">TS</a>]

01:22:10   award we're giving you an award for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4930">TS</a>]

01:22:12   violating our guidelines right they very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4932">TS</a>]

01:22:14   rarely do they give you an award for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4934">TS</a>]

01:22:15   making an application that exactly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4935">TS</a>]

01:22:17   complies with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4937">TS</a>]

01:22:17   and interface guidelines they want you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4937">TS</a>]

01:22:19   to go above and beyond what they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4939">TS</a>]

01:22:20   want you to do is try to go above and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4940">TS</a>]

01:22:22   beyond when you don't have the skills to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4942">TS</a>]

01:22:23   do it so that's why their message is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4943">TS</a>]

01:22:25   always no custom controls do not use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4945">TS</a>]

01:22:27   custom controls at a really really good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4947">TS</a>]

01:22:28   reason trust us you'll make more work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4948">TS</a>]

01:22:30   for yourself you make your app uglier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4950">TS</a>]

01:22:32   uglier when we make a new version of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4952">TS</a>]

01:22:34   operating system your custom controls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4954">TS</a>]

01:22:35   are going to break [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4955">TS</a>]

01:22:36   you're not going to inherit new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4956">TS</a>]

01:22:37   behaviors it's going to be tons of work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4957">TS</a>]

01:22:39   for you to keep your app updated and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4959">TS</a>]

01:22:40   don't like that so use custom controls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4960">TS</a>]

01:22:42   and wink-wink nudge-nudge the you guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4962">TS</a>]

01:22:44   out there who have SuperDuper skills we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4964">TS</a>]

01:22:47   know what you're going to do what you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4967">TS</a>]

01:22:48   anyway and we'll give you an award for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4968">TS</a>]

01:22:50   it later okay I'll have to say on that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4970">TS</a>]

01:22:56   it just that yeah just that okay good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4976">TS</a>]

01:23:05   what do we skip over we skipped over the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4985">TS</a>]

01:23:06   the App Store rejection I'll save that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4986">TS</a>]

01:23:08   for later [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4988">TS</a>]

01:23:09   yeah you gotta say where email contacts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4989">TS</a>]

01:23:11   yeah we're done yeah we're done this a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4991">TS</a>]

01:23:14   good week this is a good week I let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4994">TS</a>]

01:23:15   people love it when you go on a rant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4995">TS</a>]

01:23:17   like that love it I do too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/4997">TS</a>]

01:23:20   how many those I have left in me were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5000">TS</a>]

01:23:22   running out of topics on the restaurant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5002">TS</a>]

01:23:23   I'm gonna start adding topics when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5003">TS</a>]

01:23:25   run out yeah and we can always talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5005">TS</a>]

01:23:27   about movies I don't know how people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5007">TS</a>]

01:23:28   feel about that no well I let's say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5008">TS</a>]

01:23:30   how's it for feedback but well here's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5010">TS</a>]

01:23:32   what we'll do we will end a show here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5012">TS</a>]

01:23:35   and then we'll keep talking and we'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5015">TS</a>]

01:23:36   make an after dark out of it so people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5016">TS</a>]

01:23:38   who are super fans want to hear this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5018">TS</a>]

01:23:40   next part of the conversation they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5020">TS</a>]

01:23:42   go to five by five TV slash after dark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5022">TS</a>]

01:23:45   where they get all the special [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5025">TS</a>]

01:23:47   behind-the-scenes stuff but that's it so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5027">TS</a>]

01:23:50   listen thanks to FreshBooks comm please [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5030">TS</a>]

01:23:51   go check these guys out there I'm so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5031">TS</a>]

01:23:54   excited cuz it's changed my life and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5034">TS</a>]

01:23:56   also check out MailChimp com they have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5036">TS</a>]

01:23:59   great service even if you don't make iOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5039">TS</a>]

01:24:01   apps but if you do go to MailChimp comm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5041">TS</a>]

01:24:03   slash chimp kit and John siracusa can be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5043">TS</a>]

01:24:07   followed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5047">TS</a>]

01:24:08   on twitter at siracusa there's no Z in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5048">TS</a>]

01:24:12   Syracuse and that's him on Twitter I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5052">TS</a>]

01:24:14   Dan Benjamin on Twitter thanks for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5054">TS</a>]

01:24:16   tuning in thanks for being a part of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5056">TS</a>]

01:24:18   show we'll be back next week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5058">TS</a>]

01:24:20   [Music] [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5060">TS</a>]

01:24:32   you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Ipl9Fkr4/5072">TS</a>]