12: Nothing Is So Perfect


00:00:01   this is hypercritical episode number 12 [TS]

00:00:05   this is a weekly talkshow ruminating on [TS]

00:00:07   exactly what is wrong in the world of [TS]

00:00:09   Apple and related technologies and [TS]

00:00:11   businesses my co-host John siracusa of [TS]

00:00:14   Ars Technica and elsewhere insists that [TS]

00:00:18   nothing is so perfect that he can't [TS]

00:00:19   complain about it I tend to agree that [TS]

00:00:22   that is true [TS]

00:00:22   i'm dan benjamin and john we'd like to [TS]

00:00:25   say thanks to to two sponsors very [TS]

00:00:27   quickly will tell you more about them [TS]

00:00:29   later but the first one is sound studio [TS]

00:00:31   for from felt-tip software and the [TS]

00:00:34   second is worldview from campaign [TS]

00:00:36   monitor we'll get to those during the [TS]

00:00:37   show hi John hi Dan how are you just [TS]

00:00:41   dandy [TS]

00:00:42   great been a long week a lot of lot has [TS]

00:00:46   happened yeah I think I've forgotten it [TS]

00:00:48   all already but we don't need to talk [TS]

00:00:50   about anything that's good [TS]

00:00:53   when we need to talk about if people at [TS]

00:00:56   last we show a very very speculative [TS]

00:00:58   about what the third company is but [TS]

00:01:01   before that there's follow-up there's a [TS]

00:01:03   lot of follow-up there always is there's [TS]

00:01:06   a good two three hours of follow-up well [TS]

00:01:09   I'll try to do it fast as usual you [TS]

00:01:11   ready yeah I'm ready I'm told I'm so [TS]

00:01:13   ready alright so last week we were [TS]

00:01:16   talking about criticism online and off [TS]

00:01:19   more or less and I thought last week's [TS]

00:01:23   show was kind of a microcosm of itself [TS]

00:01:25   sort of in an inception kind of way [TS]

00:01:28   because I started the show talking about [TS]

00:01:29   how I had written this you know this [TS]

00:01:32   blog post about criticism and how I [TS]

00:01:34   tweeted about it and said something that [TS]

00:01:36   I thought was silly and then some people [TS]

00:01:39   took it seriously right and that was [TS]

00:01:42   kind of like an example with this like a [TS]

00:01:43   gap between like the intention of the [TS]

00:01:44   person creating something and the [TS]

00:01:46   audience's interpretation so that was [TS]

00:01:47   just a tweet right well and last week's [TS]

00:01:49   show we had one person who took ah you [TS]

00:01:54   know interpreted what we said in a [TS]

00:01:55   different way that then we definitely [TS]

00:01:57   intended to be so I thought we'd address [TS]

00:01:59   that now okay let's do it yeah so this [TS]

00:02:01   was a I threw out a reference to an old [TS]

00:02:05   SNL sketch about sexual harassment [TS]

00:02:06   somewhere in the middle of last week's [TS]

00:02:08   fun as yeah and see pop-culture [TS]

00:02:11   references like that are kind of risky [TS]

00:02:12   B's not ever [TS]

00:02:13   room we'll get them right so not [TS]

00:02:15   everyone has seen all the same TV shows [TS]

00:02:16   as you and this was an old SNL clip if I [TS]

00:02:18   remember it wasn't in 2005 or something [TS]

00:02:21   it wasn't like a recent thing but either [TS]

00:02:24   way usually when a pop culture reference [TS]

00:02:25   doesn't land because people don't know [TS]

00:02:27   what you're talking about that's not a [TS]

00:02:28   big deal but in this case if you didn't [TS]

00:02:30   catch the reference it sounded like the [TS]

00:02:32   point I was making was exactly the [TS]

00:02:34   opposite of the point down this way so [TS]

00:02:36   in the show notes today I have a link to [TS]

00:02:37   the actual Saturday Night Live sketch [TS]

00:02:39   that I was referencing it was a joke [TS]

00:02:42   corporate seminar film about sexual [TS]

00:02:44   harassment um and one reader thought we [TS]

00:02:48   were endorsing sexual harassment right [TS]

00:02:50   work wait what are you endorsing it [TS]

00:02:52   though no that is exactly the opposite [TS]

00:02:54   and what I was doing it it's also the [TS]

00:02:56   opposite of what this ayat live sketch [TS]

00:02:57   is doing so if you go and look at the [TS]

00:03:00   YouTube video alright so even now so now [TS]

00:03:02   I've given you the context on the side [TS]

00:03:03   on a live video and you're saying all [TS]

00:03:05   clearly he endorses this video so if you [TS]

00:03:07   go to the video and you look at the [TS]

00:03:09   YouTube description a guy in the [TS]

00:03:11   description also does not agree with me [TS]

00:03:14   he's he's taking away from this this [TS]

00:03:16   video that he has posted the exact [TS]

00:03:19   opposite point that I took away from it [TS]

00:03:21   so to further clarify lest you go to [TS]

00:03:23   this video and read the description and [TS]

00:03:24   say oh my god he agrees with the guy who [TS]

00:03:25   posted this video I do not agree with [TS]

00:03:27   the guy who posted that video he said [TS]

00:03:29   what is that I think I would quote from [TS]

00:03:30   in here yeah I'm not gonna quote him but [TS]

00:03:33   he basically said that what makes [TS]

00:03:36   something sexual harassment is the [TS]

00:03:37   response of the person has to and again [TS]

00:03:40   I think that is the exact opposite of [TS]

00:03:42   the point of the sketch that the writers [TS]

00:03:44   intended and certainly what I intended [TS]

00:03:46   the point of the sketch as I see it is [TS]

00:03:48   that the reception of your actions does [TS]

00:03:53   not determine whether something is [TS]

00:03:55   sexual harassment or not it's the [TS]

00:03:56   actions themselves and I thought this [TS]

00:03:58   was pretty clear because like at the end [TS]

00:04:00   of the sketch they have the handsome guy [TS]

00:04:01   Tom Brady was hosting the show he's the [TS]

00:04:03   handsome guy walk up to Homans desk [TS]

00:04:05   wearing his underwear and the woman's [TS]

00:04:07   like oh hi how you doing she takes it [TS]

00:04:09   just fine because he's handsome [TS]

00:04:10   that's humors way of trying to tell you [TS]

00:04:12   that that's actually not okay [TS]

00:04:14   walking up to your desk in your [TS]

00:04:15   underwear is not okay even if you're [TS]

00:04:17   handsome and the fact that some people [TS]

00:04:18   think it's okay that's the joke the joke [TS]

00:04:20   is on them [TS]

00:04:21   so now that I've sucked every ounce of [TS]

00:04:23   humor out of that sketch by trying well [TS]

00:04:25   why go watch it anyway go watch it is [TS]

00:04:27   funny it's an oldie it's a goodie that's [TS]

00:04:29   what I was referring to I'm not pro [TS]

00:04:31   sexual harassment all right we got that [TS]

00:04:35   out of the way I think I think so yeah I [TS]

00:04:38   would get emails about how bad the skit [TS]

00:04:40   actually was I thought it was anyway uh [TS]

00:04:44   related to that is something I forgot to [TS]

00:04:46   bring up and there's a lot of things [TS]

00:04:47   that I forgot to bring up in the last [TS]

00:04:49   show is that I listen to all of my own [TS]

00:04:53   shows I know a lot of people over on [TS]

00:04:54   podcast don't listen themselves there [TS]

00:04:57   can't list themselves or find it painful [TS]

00:04:58   you know but I listen to every single [TS]

00:05:01   one the shows that I'm on and yes it is [TS]

00:05:04   very painful to do that especially like [TS]

00:05:05   in the beginning when you're not used to [TS]

00:05:07   hearing your own voice and everything [TS]

00:05:08   but eventually you get over that and [TS]

00:05:10   just deal with the Kermit factor and [TS]

00:05:13   just listen but the reason I'm listening [TS]

00:05:15   is the same reason I talked about in [TS]

00:05:16   last show that I want to hear what I'm [TS]

00:05:17   doing wrong so that I can fix it and it [TS]

00:05:20   doesn't mean that I'm fixing it every [TS]

00:05:22   single time but it means that I'm gonna [TS]

00:05:24   how do I know how I'm doing if I don't [TS]

00:05:26   listen to myself you know what I mean [TS]

00:05:27   and so in the course of listening to [TS]

00:05:29   last week's show I saw that I misspoke [TS]

00:05:30   like 50 different times like I called [TS]

00:05:32   something Amazon App Engine when App [TS]

00:05:33   Engine and obviously belongs to Google I [TS]

00:05:35   say PowerBook all the time a lot of [TS]

00:05:37   people do this but I mean you know these [TS]

00:05:39   are also these are nitpicky things that [TS]

00:05:41   aren't really worth right but this but [TS]

00:05:43   well I think it's worthwhile because I [TS]

00:05:44   want to listen oh you know I'm not gonna [TS]

00:05:46   go into all my podcasting flaws but the [TS]

00:05:48   only way you're gonna get better is to [TS]

00:05:49   it's gonna have it you are right it's [TS]

00:05:52   listen to what what it's like to listen [TS]

00:05:54   to yourself and I do listen to a lot of [TS]

00:05:55   podcast so I feel like I have a baseline [TS]

00:05:56   level of you know what I'm supposed to [TS]

00:05:59   be doing what I'm not supposed to be [TS]

00:06:00   doing right and I guess if you really if [TS]

00:06:05   it really bothers you to listen to [TS]

00:06:06   yourself then then you know it's better [TS]

00:06:08   for your not to but I feel like it's a [TS]

00:06:10   big part of being able to improve it's [TS]

00:06:12   it's like writing something and refusing [TS]

00:06:14   to read what you write because you find [TS]

00:06:15   it too embarrassing that's the time line [TS]

00:06:17   you should read it now to learn from [TS]

00:06:19   your mistakes all right um there's [TS]

00:06:24   another whole thread for the criticism [TS]

00:06:26   thing that I didn't get into I'll just [TS]

00:06:27   try to go through it briefly and skip [TS]

00:06:29   the rest of the follow up okay because I [TS]

00:06:31   don't want to talk about microwave ovens [TS]

00:06:32   you know I actually do oh you do all [TS]

00:06:36   right well I'll try to do this fast [TS]

00:06:37   enough so we can talk about microwave uh [TS]

00:06:39   so [TS]

00:06:41   one of the things about blogging online [TS]

00:06:43   criticism that I wanted to talk about [TS]

00:06:45   was the inclination of the author like [TS]

00:06:48   given the same event what what is a [TS]

00:06:52   somebody's reaction to it what are they [TS]

00:06:54   what are they interested in writing [TS]

00:06:55   about on their blog for example and your [TS]

00:06:59   inclination your angle on stories will [TS]

00:07:02   give you can give you a reputation like [TS]

00:07:04   for example Gruber is the most obvious [TS]

00:07:06   one where a lot of people label him as a [TS]

00:07:07   fanboy mmm you've talked about out of [TS]

00:07:10   this on the show with him it because his [TS]

00:07:11   inclination is when something happens [TS]

00:07:15   it's related to the things that he [TS]

00:07:16   writes about he will look for he will [TS]

00:07:21   criticize the people who are criticizing [TS]

00:07:23   Apple basically so if you think [TS]

00:07:24   something Apple is doing is good he will [TS]

00:07:27   find the people who think that that same [TS]

00:07:28   thing is bad and explain why they're [TS]

00:07:30   wrong right I would say that's very [TS]

00:07:33   accurate and there yet the Mac elope is [TS]

00:07:36   like that to a Mac world the the [TS]

00:07:38   ever-elusive Mac elope who has a column [TS]

00:07:39   it is 100% like find the most ridiculous [TS]

00:07:42   idiotic person who said the stupidest [TS]

00:07:44   thing and just tear them apart Gruber's [TS]

00:07:46   is less humor based more serious like [TS]

00:07:48   he'll he'll talk about this you know [TS]

00:07:50   he'll address the serious criticisms for [TS]

00:07:51   people who are you know more versed in [TS]

00:07:54   the field occasionally he'll pick on the [TS]

00:07:56   idiots too um now I come up come at it [TS]

00:07:59   from the other way most of the time if [TS]

00:08:01   Apple does something I'm looking for [TS]

00:08:04   what is it about what they did that's [TS]

00:08:05   bad and then I will complain about that [TS]

00:08:08   right now you would think this would [TS]

00:08:10   this would line min bian Gruber up to be [TS]

00:08:13   constantly at odds because if every time [TS]

00:08:15   something happens I'm going to say [TS]

00:08:16   what's wrong with what Apple did and [TS]

00:08:18   he's going to criticize the people who [TS]

00:08:19   are saying that Apple did something [TS]

00:08:21   wrong but in reality we tend not to [TS]

00:08:22   cross paths like that and it's it's know [TS]

00:08:24   why is then it's mostly because if you [TS]

00:08:28   were to talk to both of us about most [TS]

00:08:30   issues I think we would probably agree [TS]

00:08:31   it's just that he's concentrating on one [TS]

00:08:33   side I'm concentrating on the other in [TS]

00:08:34   most cases when he does link to me he'll [TS]

00:08:36   agree with my criticism or maybe have [TS]

00:08:38   one or two things to say with it say [TS]

00:08:40   about it but what the end result for the [TS]

00:08:42   reader is like oh Gruber's a fanboy and [TS]

00:08:43   then I'm a hater right so everything you [TS]

00:08:45   know you hate Apple you must be a PC you [TS]

00:08:47   know I used to get that way back on a [TS]

00:08:48   date I don't get it that much now I [TS]

00:08:49   think people have figured out that I'm [TS]

00:08:51   actually a Mac user but big time when I [TS]

00:08:53   first started writing is that you've [TS]

00:08:54   clearly [TS]

00:08:55   never used in Agra for in your life and [TS]

00:08:56   you must love ms-dos or and you know but [TS]

00:09:01   in reality just two sides of the same [TS]

00:09:03   coin you know where I'm you know what we [TS]

00:09:08   choose to focus on doesn't mean that if [TS]

00:09:10   you took those two pieces together like [TS]

00:09:11   the things that he says that the apples [TS]

00:09:13   doing good mostly I agree with and the [TS]

00:09:15   things that I'm saying that apples doing [TS]

00:09:16   is bad mostly he's agree he agrees but [TS]

00:09:18   this is just where we decide to focus [TS]

00:09:19   you know what I mean [TS]

00:09:20   it's a you're almost saying it's it's [TS]

00:09:22   sort of the same issues but you focus on [TS]

00:09:26   them in a different way [TS]

00:09:27   right and isn't you know he's picking on [TS]

00:09:31   the criticisms that are stupid and I'm [TS]

00:09:32   hoping that I'm given criticisms that [TS]

00:09:34   are not stupid and the things that he's [TS]

00:09:36   saying that are really good I'm not you [TS]

00:09:39   know I'm not counteracting them I'm not [TS]

00:09:41   I'm not saying that you know that he's [TS]

00:09:43   wrong about that I just am not as [TS]

00:09:45   interested in talking about what's good [TS]

00:09:46   now occasionally if you look like my Mac [TS]

00:09:48   os10 reviews I will go off and you know [TS]

00:09:50   a couple paragraphs or page or two about [TS]

00:09:51   something that's really good I do tend [TS]

00:09:54   to do that it's just not my inclination [TS]

00:09:55   you know it's not my inclination to say [TS]

00:09:57   you know I guess I'm more into negative [TS]

00:09:59   reinforcement than positive [TS]

00:10:00   reinforcement and again this doesn't [TS]

00:10:01   really apply in to people but the [TS]

00:10:03   corporations into analysis of tech [TS]

00:10:05   industry I think both approaches are [TS]

00:10:07   perfectly valid and I think it's unfair [TS]

00:10:09   that either one of us gets the labels [TS]

00:10:11   that we tend to get that he gets labeled [TS]

00:10:12   as a fanboy that I get labeled as a [TS]

00:10:14   hater who just you know complains about [TS]

00:10:15   everything right but it really just has [TS]

00:10:18   to do with the part of the issue that we [TS]

00:10:21   find interesting I like I read all the [TS]

00:10:23   same things about people criticizing [TS]

00:10:24   Apple and being stupid about it I'm just [TS]

00:10:26   not interested as interested in [TS]

00:10:28   explaining why they're stupid because [TS]

00:10:30   for me it's kind of like well if you [TS]

00:10:32   can't see that it's stupid yourself [TS]

00:10:33   probably nothing I'm going to say is [TS]

00:10:34   going to convince you when it's not [TS]

00:10:35   worth my time to try to do so but other [TS]

00:10:37   people make different value judgments [TS]

00:10:38   about that and or they you know they [TS]

00:10:40   find humor value in it or they can they [TS]

00:10:42   can be funny while explaining why [TS]

00:10:44   somebody is wrong right you know that's [TS]

00:10:48   just different ways to look at the world [TS]

00:10:51   I guess but but again I think it's [TS]

00:10:53   ridiculous that people get put into [TS]

00:10:56   little corners and given labels based on [TS]

00:10:59   the aspect of issues they decide to look [TS]

00:11:00   at and not based on like what their [TS]

00:11:02   total opinion is like if you were to if [TS]

00:11:03   someone who labels me a hater was to sit [TS]

00:11:05   down and talk to me for five minutes [TS]

00:11:07   that would realize that I love Apple and [TS]

00:11:08   gives them [TS]

00:11:09   so dollars and have wonderful things to [TS]

00:11:11   say about lots of things that they do [TS]

00:11:12   it's just not what I choose to write [TS]

00:11:14   about most of the time right ah [TS]

00:11:18   microwaves yes we'll skip over the rest [TS]

00:11:20   of this and go right to microwaves what [TS]

00:11:22   do you want to talk about about [TS]

00:11:22   microwaves I have a lot of snippets here [TS]

00:11:24   from feedback we've gotten well yeah I [TS]

00:11:26   mean we got all that we got a lot of [TS]

00:11:27   feedback surprisingly I think we got [TS]

00:11:29   more feedback that in in in one way or [TS]

00:11:32   another focus is on microwave so we [TS]

00:11:35   might get it we might get something [TS]

00:11:37   where the someone write in and say Oh [TS]

00:11:39   John you're wrong about this but I agree [TS]

00:11:41   with you about this and then at the end [TS]

00:11:42   PS I live in X country in Europe and we [TS]

00:11:48   have everybody I know has a microwave I [TS]

00:11:50   have a microwave I've had one since I [TS]

00:11:52   was in grad school and then for every [TS]

00:11:54   one of those we get we'll get another [TS]

00:11:55   one that says not only don't we have [TS]

00:11:57   microwaves we don't have central heating [TS]

00:11:58   in there that's a fair representation of [TS]

00:12:04   it right yeah a lot of people were [TS]

00:12:06   trying to gather up stats which I found [TS]

00:12:08   useful but I don't really care that much [TS]

00:12:11   about who has microwaves or don't you [TS]

00:12:14   know especially since these stats are [TS]

00:12:16   from different years and not really [TS]

00:12:17   comparable to each other and stuff like [TS]

00:12:19   that so it some of the information we [TS]

00:12:22   got was basically the u.s. really does [TS]

00:12:24   have a lot of microwaves per capita [TS]

00:12:25   right and other other similar [TS]

00:12:28   westernized countries have high [TS]

00:12:30   percentages but slightly less yeah and [TS]

00:12:33   of course we got you know your people [TS]

00:12:35   coming in the people who are going to [TS]

00:12:36   tell us that they have a different kind [TS]

00:12:38   of eating style and diet plan and that's [TS]

00:12:39   but what we do you know I mean we've to [TS]

00:12:43   be completely honest we use being being [TS]

00:12:46   on the kind of diet that we're on we use [TS]

00:12:48   a microwave very in a very limited [TS]

00:12:50   capacity and I realize most of what we [TS]

00:12:53   use it for these days [TS]

00:12:54   could prob we could probably do without [TS]

00:12:57   it we could probably have no problem [TS]

00:12:58   without a microwave at all these days [TS]

00:13:01   the few years ago you know we were [TS]

00:13:03   definitely heating up heating up stuff [TS]

00:13:05   in there but what happens if you want to [TS]

00:13:07   quickly steam some vegetables you just [TS]

00:13:09   throw them in there it's convenient you [TS]

00:13:10   know something like that but apparently [TS]

00:13:12   that a lot of people are at they think [TS]

00:13:16   of microwaves as being a distinctly [TS]

00:13:18   American phenomenon even though they may [TS]

00:13:20   exist [TS]

00:13:21   some number in their country or in their [TS]

00:13:23   their area or in their circle they think [TS]

00:13:27   of it as being a very American thing and [TS]

00:13:30   sort of typifies everything that's wrong [TS]

00:13:32   with America the instant gratification [TS]

00:13:34   the instant you know the ease of use the [TS]

00:13:38   disposable philosophy that they perceive [TS]

00:13:42   right perhaps correctly from many [TS]

00:13:44   Americans to have and the poor quality [TS]

00:13:47   of the food like processed for us to [TS]

00:13:48   know that usually use what you're [TS]

00:13:50   putting the microwave is some horrible [TS]

00:13:51   you know not that necessarily has to be [TS]

00:13:53   the case but it's associated with those [TS]

00:13:54   actions that the worst processed foods [TS]

00:13:57   and frozen foods you know you can heat [TS]

00:13:59   them up in the microwave right that's [TS]

00:14:02   not to say that that's what you know [TS]

00:14:03   that's the only thing I microwave is [TS]

00:14:04   good for you could use it to boil a cup [TS]

00:14:05   of water so you know it's a versatile [TS]

00:14:07   device but yeah I like that somebody I [TS]

00:14:10   think somebody from hungry or something [TS]

00:14:11   had noted that a lot of people in his [TS]

00:14:13   country say that using a microwave is [TS]

00:14:15   unhealthy because it damages the [TS]

00:14:17   molecules and causes cancer right it's [TS]

00:14:18   kind of like one of those things you get [TS]

00:14:19   when it there's there any kind of new [TS]

00:14:21   technology someone somewhere will become [TS]

00:14:23   convinced that it's you know [TS]

00:14:24   carcinogenic and you know some some [TS]

00:14:26   reasonable centage of the time there [TS]

00:14:27   right so that sort of reinforces the [TS]

00:14:28   idea but yeah what it's interesting that [TS]

00:14:32   when that type of thing can take hold in [TS]

00:14:34   a widespread manner you know the way he [TS]

00:14:39   was trying to express it here that he [TS]

00:14:40   that this is you know not just one or [TS]

00:14:42   two cooks but a lot of people actually [TS]

00:14:44   believe this that damages the molecules [TS]

00:14:46   and causes cancer because its uses [TS]

00:14:48   radiation or whatever no matter what you [TS]

00:14:52   no matter what new technology you have [TS]

00:14:54   someone will believe that about it so we [TS]

00:14:56   got that and we got some email from [TS]

00:14:57   people who was this guy said he doesn't [TS]

00:14:59   eat box foods planes' meals and the meal [TS]

00:15:01   times are scheduled so that means you [TS]

00:15:02   don't you don't need cooking time to be [TS]

00:15:04   fast because if you know when you're [TS]

00:15:05   gonna eat you just plan ahead of time [TS]

00:15:07   and sure put things on the stove in the [TS]

00:15:08   oven and a lot of European countries [TS]

00:15:10   they get three four hours in the middle [TS]

00:15:12   of the day for their lunch they only got [TS]

00:15:14   that anymore they get you know three [TS]

00:15:16   months vacation they get free health [TS]

00:15:19   care it's always sunny it never rains [TS]

00:15:22   it's always 72 degrees which is 18 [TS]

00:15:25   degrees Celsius or whatever and you know [TS]

00:15:29   they live they all drive Lamborghinis [TS]

00:15:31   you know that there [TS]

00:15:34   their significant others are beautiful [TS]

00:15:36   just like they are and there's no crime [TS]

00:15:39   I mean that's that's pretty much [TS]

00:15:42   everywhere except America is what our [TS]

00:15:44   emails tell us and they don't use my [TS]

00:15:46   clothes that's kind of one of those ways [TS]

00:15:48   but you can hack your own life but if [TS]

00:15:50   you get rid of a microwave you're [TS]

00:15:51   removing the option for having food sort [TS]

00:15:54   of in a rush on the go and that forces [TS]

00:15:55   you to plan ahead yeah I could maybe [TS]

00:15:57   make you slow your life down or whatever [TS]

00:15:59   it's turning into a Marlin tip show but [TS]

00:16:01   I would say I can't remember the last [TS]

00:16:03   time that I that I heated like that like [TS]

00:16:06   I'll put a meal into the microwave it's [TS]

00:16:09   probably been years since I've done it [TS]

00:16:10   but I'll tell you what it is it feels [TS]

00:16:12   broccoli better than anything else I [TS]

00:16:14   know of yeah but don't don't use it for [TS]

00:16:16   reheating because I have tons of [TS]

00:16:17   leftovers and is great for reheat orbit [TS]

00:16:20   doll hands it depends like I don't like [TS]

00:16:21   to taste a chicken out of a microwave if [TS]

00:16:24   it's reheated I'll use a toaster oven we [TS]

00:16:26   actually do a heck of a lot of reheating [TS]

00:16:29   in a toaster oven it means that I need [TS]

00:16:32   to put that on topic list the why I hate [TS]

00:16:33   all toasters but yeah toaster for [TS]

00:16:35   anything that needs to be crisp all I'd [TS]

00:16:36   love to talk to you about a toaster oven [TS]

00:16:37   on a show we could do I could do I could [TS]

00:16:40   talk hours about toasters that's a whole [TS]

00:16:42   show but I think it will be I think [TS]

00:16:44   it'll be our best show but our best show [TS]

00:16:47   Y all toasters are horrible [TS]

00:16:48   then might have to do a series on then [TS]

00:16:52   it's not some we want to try and squeeze [TS]

00:16:54   into just one show we can be done with [TS]

00:16:56   the follow-up now if you want I will [TS]

00:16:58   have that letter skipped but that's [TS]

00:17:00   weaker cuz we have a really great topic [TS]

00:17:02   yes really excited about this one and by [TS]

00:17:05   the way we just want to mention that it [TS]

00:17:06   is opening day in the major league [TS]

00:17:09   baseball world today you didn't mention [TS]

00:17:12   that I don't care I know your big fan [TS]

00:17:14   not a big fan but insofar as I am a fan [TS]

00:17:17   I am a Yankees fan just to put that out [TS]

00:17:21   there it doesn't let's get some let's [TS]

00:17:22   get some more hey well you will I'm a [TS]

00:17:25   Phillies fan like all all good Americans [TS]

00:17:27   should be mm-hmm all right you ready for [TS]

00:17:32   the main topic ready hit me wait before [TS]

00:17:35   we say it let's do it let's do a sponsor [TS]

00:17:37   all right we actually we have a couple [TS]

00:17:40   great sponsors this the first sponsor [TS]

00:17:42   that we have a sound studio for I've [TS]

00:17:43   talked about them before this is by [TS]

00:17:45   felt-tip software you can record it [TS]

00:17:48   use your audio with sound studio for its [TS]

00:17:49   an easy-to-use mac app we have used this [TS]

00:17:51   app here for years I used to use it [TS]

00:17:55   exclusively to record everything that I [TS]

00:17:57   did and I still use it whenever I'm not [TS]

00:18:00   doing some kind of really super [TS]

00:18:01   intensive multitrack recording it's [TS]

00:18:03   great for for simple straightforward [TS]

00:18:04   recording and and it's really easy to [TS]

00:18:07   edit with and you can export all of your [TS]

00:18:09   favorite formats from WAV AAC mp3 even [TS]

00:18:12   this OGG Vorbis that john siracusa liked [TS]

00:18:15   so much and it's available from the Mac [TS]

00:18:17   App Store you can go check it out today [TS]

00:18:20   you can also go to felt-tip calm /ss and [TS]

00:18:24   it'll take you right to sound studio for [TS]

00:18:27   we love this app there's an app that [TS]

00:18:29   I've used again for years highly [TS]

00:18:30   recommend that if you're thinking about [TS]

00:18:31   recording anything and go check it out [TS]

00:18:33   great Mac app to just it has that Mac [TS]

00:18:36   know works the way you want it to work [TS]

00:18:39   it's the replacement for sound that at [TS]

00:18:41   16 you remember that I do what a great [TS]

00:18:43   burger on that wasn't good years I was [TS]

00:18:45   looking for the you know alright so [TS]

00:18:46   sounded at 16 is old what is it that [TS]

00:18:49   replaces it yeah I want a thing that [TS]

00:18:50   shows me the sound and I chop it up with [TS]

00:18:52   a little cursor and you know like I had [TS]

00:18:54   basic needs and it took a long time on a [TS]

00:18:55   Mac os10 error before I found sound [TS]

00:18:58   studio yeah you don't you don't need to [TS]

00:18:59   be a genius or go to a class at the [TS]

00:19:02   Apple store to figure out how to use it [TS]

00:19:03   you can just launch it and record [TS]

00:19:05   something and edit it and hit delete and [TS]

00:19:08   hit save and it works yep [TS]

00:19:10   and OGG Vorbis I know it's big for you [TS]

00:19:12   you know you're miss categorizing your [TS]

00:19:14   like if you're gonna make fun of me for [TS]

00:19:16   being nerdy you got to figure out what [TS]

00:19:17   I'm nerdy about that's like a sort of a [TS]

00:19:19   you know free software neckbeard kind of [TS]

00:19:21   thing I don't think I've ever even had [TS]

00:19:23   an OGG Vorbis file on my hard drive [TS]

00:19:26   alone let alone playable funny it's [TS]

00:19:28   funnier that way no it would be funnier [TS]

00:19:31   if you did like DRM encrypted AAC files [TS]

00:19:33   like all my audio has fair play and you [TS]

00:19:36   still haven't talked about he's a [TS]

00:19:37   crapple fanboy he's still I haven't [TS]

00:19:39   talked about I encrypt yeah I'm not well [TS]

00:19:42   this they always gets kicked off the [TS]

00:19:43   follow up you know wait until at the [TS]

00:19:46   lines released and we can have a whole [TS]

00:19:47   show on ink written so this show though [TS]

00:19:50   now the big reveal 20 minutes in what [TS]

00:19:53   are we talking about today so last week [TS]

00:19:55   when we were going through the topic [TS]

00:19:57   list in the end the tail end of the show [TS]

00:19:59   you were looking at these three ones [TS]

00:20:01   that I recently [TS]

00:20:02   added that sort of fit the format of [TS]

00:20:04   what's wrong with blank we're blank is [TS]

00:20:05   some well-known company yeah and since I [TS]

00:20:08   didn't think single one of those [TS]

00:20:10   companies I had enough to say about to [TS]

00:20:11   fill I'll show we're going to do three [TS]

00:20:12   of them today and I'll try to get [TS]

00:20:13   through them quickly and what's wrong [TS]

00:20:16   with like exactly there's lots of things [TS]

00:20:17   wrong with everything right so we're [TS]

00:20:18   trying to look for the most significant [TS]

00:20:20   challenge that these companies have and [TS]

00:20:22   I don't think the things I'm going to [TS]

00:20:23   pick are particularly like people going [TS]

00:20:26   to be blown away fry them because no one [TS]

00:20:27   ever thought and they're the obvious [TS]

00:20:29   things that are wrong with these [TS]

00:20:30   companies but I think it's worth talking [TS]

00:20:32   about like the biggest challenges of [TS]

00:20:33   these of these well-known companies [TS]

00:20:35   because the discussion will be [TS]

00:20:36   interesting if not the you know oh my [TS]

00:20:38   god this is amazing inside that this is [TS]

00:20:39   what's wrong with this company and in [TS]

00:20:42   that spirit I'm going to let you as [TS]

00:20:43   usual [TS]

00:20:45   try to guess what you think the most [TS]

00:20:47   significant challenge what I'm going to [TS]

00:20:48   say is the most significant challenge of [TS]

00:20:50   these companies so we're gonna start [TS]

00:20:51   with Google mmm like this is a pretty [TS]

00:20:53   easy one what do you think you can give [TS]

00:20:57   your opinion or you can try to guess [TS]

00:20:58   what I'm going to say what is the most [TS]

00:20:59   significant challenge to to Google as a [TS]

00:21:01   company at this point when you say [TS]

00:21:04   challenge you mean the thing that they [TS]

00:21:05   need to do well it's like what's wrong [TS]

00:21:08   with them like what's wrong with are [TS]

00:21:09   they doing everything perfectly do they [TS]

00:21:11   have some sort of problem what's wrong [TS]

00:21:12   with all these things what's wrong with [TS]

00:21:14   the company if you have to pick one [TS]

00:21:16   thing and get these are all companies [TS]

00:21:17   that are massively successful that are [TS]

00:21:18   really awesome companies that you know [TS]

00:21:20   are by any standard doing almost almost [TS]

00:21:23   everything right and that's why it's [TS]

00:21:24   interesting to find the one or two [TS]

00:21:25   things that they're doing wrong you know [TS]

00:21:27   I don't think it's possible for me to [TS]

00:21:29   guess what you're going to say so I want [TS]

00:21:31   you just give your own opinion I'll give [TS]

00:21:32   my own opinion of what I think it the [TS]

00:21:35   thing that strikes me as being the most [TS]

00:21:38   wrong with Google is that I I don't ever [TS]

00:21:41   feel like they have a single focus or a [TS]

00:21:46   single track that unifies all of the [TS]

00:21:48   different projects products and and [TS]

00:21:50   focuses that they they need a focus if [TS]

00:21:52   you look at what Apple is doing as a [TS]

00:21:55   company that has a supremely sharp focus [TS]

00:21:57   and compare that to what Google is doing [TS]

00:21:59   Google has so many different things [TS]

00:22:02   going on and it seems to me that that [TS]

00:22:05   they suffer because of that they're sort [TS]

00:22:07   of if you ever heard the term monkey [TS]

00:22:09   mind how about that term it's a great we [TS]

00:22:12   could talk about that at some point [TS]

00:22:14   monkey mind is if you mad [TS]

00:22:15   little monkey running around in a jungle [TS]

00:22:19   somewhere he runs over he looks at the [TS]

00:22:21   ants running around then he goes over [TS]

00:22:22   climbed up the tree bounces off the tree [TS]

00:22:24   jumps onto the other tree jumps off his [TS]

00:22:25   brother's back does a backflip rolls [TS]

00:22:27   around on the ground looks at the ants [TS]

00:22:29   again grab some seeds from a tree and [TS]

00:22:31   can't get his hand out of the tree drops [TS]

00:22:32   isn't you know this is that this is the [TS]

00:22:35   thing that a monkey does he's never he's [TS]

00:22:38   never focused and because he's never [TS]

00:22:41   focused these things that they do they [TS]

00:22:43   can they can be successful like Google's [TS]

00:22:45   have been successful but they also have [TS]

00:22:47   these very strange and and in some cases [TS]

00:22:50   huge missteps these huge mistakes that [TS]

00:22:53   they make and it doesn't seem like they [TS]

00:22:55   have a single unified vision so that [TS]

00:22:57   would mean what I say is that what do [TS]

00:22:59   you say so that's it's interesting that [TS]

00:23:01   what you ended up talking about is what [TS]

00:23:04   I'm going to end up talking about too [TS]

00:23:05   but coming at it from entirely different [TS]

00:23:06   directions so I'm going to start with [TS]

00:23:08   what I think most people would say if [TS]

00:23:11   you especially were talking to a [TS]

00:23:12   business analyst on the business side [TS]

00:23:14   would is wrong with Google and it [TS]

00:23:16   actually went around the web you know [TS]

00:23:19   like last week or so it's being passed [TS]

00:23:20   around the blogs and the shownotes link [TS]

00:23:23   that link to Gruber's link to the this [TS]

00:23:25   story in the New York Times and a [TS]

00:23:28   business analyst would say that what's [TS]

00:23:29   wrong with Google is that if you look at [TS]

00:23:30   its balance sheet you'll see that it [TS]

00:23:31   derives 96% of its revenue from [TS]

00:23:33   advertising and just on a plain business [TS]

00:23:36   percentage like oh that's not [TS]

00:23:37   diversified enough like you're putting [TS]

00:23:38   all your eggs in one basket even though [TS]

00:23:40   you have all these different things that [TS]

00:23:41   you do it like so your your a complaint [TS]

00:23:43   was that they're too scattered and not [TS]

00:23:44   focused on anything right and then this [TS]

00:23:46   complaining the other side is on the [TS]

00:23:47   business side that they're too focused [TS]

00:23:48   on one count sheet yeah their balance [TS]

00:23:50   sheet is is not diversified enough [TS]

00:23:52   they're making all their money from one [TS]

00:23:53   thing and that makes them vulnerable [TS]

00:23:54   extremely vulnerable to any sort of [TS]

00:23:56   perturbance in the advertising world [TS]

00:23:58   right but I'm not going to say that's [TS]

00:24:01   the the thing that's not the root [TS]

00:24:03   problem that's like a symptom and the [TS]

00:24:05   reason for that is if you think about [TS]

00:24:06   Apple if you try to apply the same [TS]

00:24:08   yardstick to them they're their income [TS]

00:24:11   looks diversified if you chop it up by [TS]

00:24:12   product fine but if you just look at it [TS]

00:24:14   in terms of like how they make their [TS]

00:24:16   money they make all right similar [TS]

00:24:17   percentage like not as high as 96 but [TS]

00:24:19   like 90 percent they make from hardware [TS]

00:24:21   no one really categorizing hardware and [TS]

00:24:23   then software and other services they [TS]

00:24:24   make about 90 percent of their of their [TS]

00:24:26   revenue from hardware oh they're not [TS]

00:24:27   diversified well you say they have seven [TS]

00:24:28   different hardware [TS]

00:24:29   they're very diversified of iPods iPhone [TS]

00:24:32   even distribution that they can [TS]

00:24:34   introduce new product lines all the time [TS]

00:24:35   and those quickly grow to become [TS]

00:24:36   significant revenue sources so it shows [TS]

00:24:38   they're not vulnerable to for example [TS]

00:24:39   weakness in the mp3 player Margaret if [TS]

00:24:42   they just had the iPod that market has [TS]

00:24:44   sort of gone down in terms of you know [TS]

00:24:46   its importance its growth is as [TS]

00:24:48   stagnated and the margins are not as big [TS]

00:24:51   as they used to be right but they [TS]

00:24:53   diversify but it's still hardware and if [TS]

00:24:55   you said the same thing about Google you [TS]

00:24:56   make 90 percent 96 percent from [TS]

00:24:58   advertising I said well this all sorts [TS]

00:24:59   of ads those mobile ads and people's [TS]

00:25:01   phones there's ads and search results [TS]

00:25:02   there's ads on the products that we have [TS]

00:25:04   you know on the sidebar of all of our [TS]

00:25:06   popular products and stuff like that so [TS]

00:25:07   I think the too much of your revenue [TS]

00:25:10   from one source thing is a red herring [TS]

00:25:12   because Google would just use the same [TS]

00:25:15   argument that Apple does to say that [TS]

00:25:16   actually are reasonably diversified and [TS]

00:25:18   I think advertising and hardware are [TS]

00:25:20   just too vague terms to say that you're [TS]

00:25:21   not diversified without any more details [TS]

00:25:23   but the real problem I think is related [TS]

00:25:25   to not not that they have so much of [TS]

00:25:28   their money coming from one thing but [TS]

00:25:30   what that one thing is and since the one [TS]

00:25:33   thing is advertising I think they're the [TS]

00:25:34   REIT problem the root problem is they [TS]

00:25:36   have too few customers and that sounds [TS]

00:25:40   silly very you know everybody uses [TS]

00:25:41   Google and it seems like they have you [TS]

00:25:43   know so what do you mean qualify matters [TS]

00:25:44   what do you mean to to you but but [TS]

00:25:46   customers you know the people who are [TS]

00:25:47   using search are not the customer to see [TS]

00:25:50   old cliche I have no idea who said this [TS]

00:25:52   and I tried to look it up and could not [TS]

00:25:53   track to the origin but basically if [TS]

00:25:55   you're not paying for it then you're the [TS]

00:25:56   product all right so everyone is using [TS]

00:25:58   Google for search they are not Google's [TS]

00:26:01   customers schools customers are the [TS]

00:26:02   advertisers and there aren't that many [TS]

00:26:04   advertisers in the world compared to the [TS]

00:26:06   number of people in the world that kind [TS]

00:26:07   of makes sense like if there was you [TS]

00:26:08   know 90% of the world where advertisers [TS]

00:26:10   who would they be advertising to there [TS]

00:26:12   is a limited number of people who have [TS]

00:26:13   goods and services to advertise and they [TS]

00:26:15   want to advertise them to millions and [TS]

00:26:17   millions of people so Google's actual [TS]

00:26:19   customers the people who pay Google [TS]

00:26:21   money are advertisers and they're not [TS]

00:26:23   there aren't a lot of them now let's [TS]

00:26:26   compare that the Apple where Apple's [TS]

00:26:28   customers are the customers they want to [TS]

00:26:30   make you know a little hardware widget [TS]

00:26:32   they can sell you and they want to make [TS]

00:26:34   it appealing to the customer and the [TS]

00:26:35   customer gives the money directly it's a [TS]

00:26:36   direct relationship between the person [TS]

00:26:38   with the money gives them gives Apple [TS]

00:26:40   the money and they get the piece of [TS]

00:26:41   hardware and Apple makes you know 90% of [TS]

00:26:42   its money from that hard [TS]

00:26:43   type of thing oh and but Google on the [TS]

00:26:47   other hand is motivated many things the [TS]

00:26:48   advertisers like because what happens to [TS]

00:26:51   them is advertisers hand them money and [TS]

00:26:53   they hand the advertisers an opportunity [TS]

00:26:55   to sell their goods in a way that they [TS]

00:26:56   like now obviously advertisers like lots [TS]

00:26:58   of customers so there's an indirect link [TS]

00:27:00   to making customers happy but it's kind [TS]

00:27:02   of like advertisers give us the money [TS]

00:27:04   and in exchange we give the advertisers [TS]

00:27:06   what they want and what they want is [TS]

00:27:07   access to a lot of customers therefore [TS]

00:27:08   we have to make something that a lot of [TS]

00:27:09   customers will use therefore we make [TS]

00:27:10   something the customers like mmm that is [TS]

00:27:12   a much more indirect link then Apple has [TS]

00:27:15   to make a piece of art where that a [TS]

00:27:16   customer is going to give them money for [TS]

00:27:17   you know and this makes me think that [TS]

00:27:21   has something to do with why so many [TS]

00:27:22   Google products fail this is the monkey [TS]

00:27:24   mind thing I guess where they make you [TS]

00:27:25   know all sorts of little things they [TS]

00:27:27   make wave to make Orkut they make buzz [TS]

00:27:28   Google Google Buzz I mean they're doing [TS]

00:27:31   all sorts of things all over the place [TS]

00:27:33   right you know but their batting average [TS]

00:27:36   is not great when they have hits they [TS]

00:27:38   have hits with it but they're you know [TS]

00:27:39   the bad average is not that good [TS]

00:27:41   certainly not as good as Apple's where [TS]

00:27:43   when Apple comes up with something [TS]

00:27:44   significant it's a big story if it fails [TS]

00:27:45   so Google's just doing you know going in [TS]

00:27:47   a million directions at once I mean just [TS]

00:27:49   I can't even just try think of all the [TS]

00:27:50   things that Google is doing with like [TS]

00:27:51   scanning books and so not every our [TS]

00:27:54   self-driving cars is an example but that [TS]

00:27:56   you know everything that they're doing [TS]

00:27:58   there and you know I mean I understand [TS]

00:28:00   they've got more money than most other [TS]

00:28:01   companies do so why not invest a little [TS]

00:28:04   bit of that into many different areas [TS]

00:28:06   but even in the areas that we know that [TS]

00:28:09   they focus on like for example web [TS]

00:28:11   applications in that in that web [TS]

00:28:13   application space they still have a lot [TS]

00:28:15   of you know they've got a couple big [TS]

00:28:17   home runs [TS]

00:28:18   like for example search and Mail but [TS]

00:28:21   they've had a whole lot of fouls are [TS]

00:28:25   mediocre things like Google Apps and [TS]

00:28:26   stuff like that yeah and the thing is I [TS]

00:28:29   think the reason that comes is because [TS]

00:28:30   Google's expertise is not in building [TS]

00:28:32   products that consumers like Google's [TS]

00:28:34   expertise seems to be in monetizing its [TS]

00:28:38   hits all right so they make tons and [TS]

00:28:40   tons of products for consumers but [TS]

00:28:41   they're not great at it so their average [TS]

00:28:42   is not good but when they get a hit boy [TS]

00:28:44   they really good at monitoring that [TS]

00:28:46   thing and making money off of it by [TS]

00:28:48   selling access to it to advertisers [TS]

00:28:50   right and so [TS]

00:28:54   I think that is that sort of encapsulate [TS]

00:28:58   why Google acts the way it does why they [TS]

00:29:02   seem to be monkey minded why the fact [TS]

00:29:05   that they're driving all the revenue [TS]

00:29:07   from advertising is bad it's not because [TS]

00:29:09   it's it's not diversified it's because [TS]

00:29:10   being in the advertising business is is [TS]

00:29:15   you know it's a bad relationship with [TS]

00:29:18   consumers now obviously it's maybe it's [TS]

00:29:20   a good relationship with advertisers if [TS]

00:29:21   I was an advertiser I'd be say this is [TS]

00:29:23   not a problem for Google and maybe [TS]

00:29:24   someone has to serve the advertising [TS]

00:29:25   community but what it leaves the Google [TS]

00:29:27   vulnerable to is someone who's better at [TS]

00:29:29   making the same kind of services eating [TS]

00:29:31   their lunch by making a service that [TS]

00:29:33   people like better than Gmail for [TS]

00:29:34   example and finding some way to get [TS]

00:29:36   money from customers for it now again [TS]

00:29:38   that's that's a challenge I mean when we [TS]

00:29:40   talk about Apple in the online world we [TS]

00:29:42   talked about how it's really hard to get [TS]

00:29:45   money directly from consumers for things [TS]

00:29:46   that you do online it's possible but [TS]

00:29:48   people haven't really cracked that code [TS]

00:29:49   yet maybe it has to be a cultural change [TS]

00:29:50   or you know a some change in [TS]

00:29:53   expectations of the consumers so for now [TS]

00:29:55   Google is the king but I would say that [TS]

00:29:57   the fact that it has so few actual [TS]

00:29:59   customers leaves it a possibility of [TS]

00:30:03   being held captive by those customers [TS]

00:30:05   that they spend too much time serving [TS]

00:30:07   the advertisers and not enough time [TS]

00:30:08   serving the consumers because that's [TS]

00:30:10   just a second level concern hmm so [TS]

00:30:15   that's Google Facebook yeah I didn't [TS]

00:30:19   Facebook this is an interesting one [TS]

00:30:23   because if you ask people they think is [TS]

00:30:24   wrong with Google maybe they'll come up [TS]

00:30:27   with like the privacy advertising stuff [TS]

00:30:29   maybe if they're in the business I'll [TS]

00:30:31   talk about the revenue but Facebook [TS]

00:30:32   people a lot tons of complaints about oh [TS]

00:30:34   yeah have that have little to do with I [TS]

00:30:36   think the company and more to do with [TS]

00:30:37   when something is popular everyone's got [TS]

00:30:39   some complaint of that no well that what [TS]

00:30:42   would be some of the big complaints [TS]

00:30:44   you'd expect to hear about Facebook [TS]

00:30:45   obviously privacy is one of them I [TS]

00:30:47   wouldn't even go with I said the first [TS]

00:30:49   one would be for like user two off the [TS]

00:30:51   street that that they're annoyed by [TS]

00:30:52   something in Facebook and God knows what [TS]

00:30:54   it would be the like they don't like how [TS]

00:30:55   that you change the redesign they don't [TS]

00:30:57   like how you can't reply to this thing [TS]

00:30:58   or how someone can delete your comments [TS]

00:31:00   or how you can't delete that like little [TS]

00:31:02   petty things that really aren't what's [TS]

00:31:03   wrong with the company but just but from [TS]

00:31:05   the fact that if once you have millions [TS]

00:31:06   and millions of people you [TS]

00:31:07   do something everyone's going to have a [TS]

00:31:08   complaint about it's kind of like back [TS]

00:31:09   in the days of Windows when everyone had [TS]

00:31:11   to complain about Windows because [TS]

00:31:12   everyone had to use Windows and yes [TS]

00:31:13   Windows was you know not great do you [TS]

00:31:15   use Facebook I I signed up for Facebook [TS]

00:31:19   way back when so you have an account you [TS]

00:31:21   just don't use it I just do not use it [TS]

00:31:23   which is bad because a lot of people who [TS]

00:31:24   do use it you know or sending me things [TS]

00:31:26   and then getting upset because I'm not [TS]

00:31:27   replying but I log onto Facebook maybe [TS]

00:31:29   once a month you know quickly retreat so [TS]

00:31:34   the way I think I'm going to come at [TS]

00:31:35   this Facebook thing is to do one of the [TS]

00:31:38   nother one of those let's go back in [TS]

00:31:39   time type of things and try to compare [TS]

00:31:42   Facebook to some similar phenomenon so [TS]

00:31:47   let's talk about the history of PCs very [TS]

00:31:50   briefly so way back when you know nobody [TS]

00:31:53   had no know individuals had computers [TS]

00:31:55   and then the personal computer stuff [TS]

00:31:57   started to happen and very in the in [TS]

00:32:00   those early days you had a lot of [TS]

00:32:01   different competitors sort of jockeying [TS]

00:32:02   for position like you had things that [TS]

00:32:04   probably young people have never heard [TS]

00:32:06   of today but it was the homebrew thing [TS]

00:32:08   where you try to make your own computer [TS]

00:32:09   and there was the Altair and the helmet [TS]

00:32:11   or Texas Instruments Tandy RadioShack [TS]

00:32:14   used to have make computers you know [TS]

00:32:15   there was Atari all sorts of things sort [TS]

00:32:17   of jockeying for position in like you [TS]

00:32:18   know now we're the king well now I hear [TS]

00:32:19   there's a great new you know Commodore [TS]

00:32:21   pet coming out but then the Tandy's is a [TS]

00:32:23   contender to write lots of Trading [TS]

00:32:26   Places lots of you know activity going [TS]

00:32:27   on there but very few people had [TS]

00:32:29   computers that stage and when you were [TS]

00:32:31   like the winner like you had the best [TS]

00:32:33   computer though you know what was it [TS]

00:32:35   called was a context back then whatever [TS]

00:32:37   whatever the you know the west coast [TS]

00:32:38   computer fair with an e at the end you [TS]

00:32:42   you had the best-in-show but you didn't [TS]

00:32:43   really win much like you got you got the [TS]

00:32:45   biggest slice of what was a really [TS]

00:32:46   really tiny pie so there was lots of [TS]

00:32:48   motion back then you know in any sort of [TS]

00:32:50   early industry expected before there's [TS]

00:32:52   any sort of consult consolidation and [TS]

00:32:54   then you had sort of like the maturing [TS]

00:32:56   of the personal computer you had the [TS]

00:32:57   Apple 2 versus the IBM PC eventually the [TS]

00:32:59   the Mac and that was kind of like where [TS]

00:33:02   the bend in the hockey stick was you [TS]

00:33:03   know in the graph where you went from [TS]

00:33:07   really nobody has computers and nobody [TS]

00:33:09   really cares who had the best you know [TS]

00:33:10   computer this year because who the heck [TS]

00:33:12   what kind of person owns a computer in [TS]

00:33:14   their house anyway just you know super [TS]

00:33:15   nerds right to the point where now at [TS]

00:33:18   least people were going to have [TS]

00:33:19   computers at work and they were thinking [TS]

00:33:20   about getting one for the [TS]

00:33:21   home it's it's really you know where [TS]

00:33:23   that where that line kinked and [TS]

00:33:26   unfortunately for many people but [TS]

00:33:28   fortunately for Microsoft they were the [TS]

00:33:30   one who just happened to be on top at [TS]

00:33:31   that crucial point when the line kinked [TS]

00:33:34   right so they didn't just get the [TS]

00:33:35   biggest piece of a tiny pie they got the [TS]

00:33:37   biggest piece of a pie that was growing [TS]

00:33:38   humongously and the network effect [TS]

00:33:40   kicked in for them and you know when [TS]

00:33:43   when you know when everyone you know has [TS]

00:33:45   a IBM pc-compatible thing we're going to [TS]

00:33:47   put aside the part of IBM dropping the [TS]

00:33:50   ball by giving Microsoft the license for [TS]

00:33:52   the software so they realized everyone [TS]

00:33:53   else but we just say Microsoft / IBM bc1 [TS]

00:33:57   because as soon as that network effect [TS]

00:33:59   kicked in [TS]

00:33:59   they were the winner at that particular [TS]

00:34:01   point and then their lead became [TS]

00:34:02   insurmountable simply because of the [TS]

00:34:04   growth of the market now if we look at [TS]

00:34:08   getting closer to Facebook now we'll [TS]

00:34:09   creep up on it social networking type [TS]

00:34:12   services had a similar sort of history [TS]

00:34:16   so in the beginning you had things like [TS]

00:34:17   BBS's that you would dial into and [TS]

00:34:19   connect to a modem when you had Lister [TS]

00:34:21   and then you have stuff like Jeannie and [TS]

00:34:23   CompuServe prodigy like everyone had [TS]

00:34:25   some sort of online thing it wasn't the [TS]

00:34:27   Internet it was this place you connected [TS]

00:34:29   to usually through a phone modem and [TS]

00:34:30   there was but it was a social network [TS]

00:34:31   you could see other people you could [TS]

00:34:33   mail back and forth they had chat rooms [TS]

00:34:34   there were you know topics of interest [TS]

00:34:36   little groups where you could talk about [TS]

00:34:37   things that you know people are [TS]

00:34:39   interested in you know different subject [TS]

00:34:43   matter divisions right but again [TS]

00:34:45   the winners of this these stages didn't [TS]

00:34:47   really win much like just because [TS]

00:34:49   CompuServe at you know trounced prodigy [TS]

00:34:52   and Jeannie they got the biggest slice [TS]

00:34:54   of a very very tiny pie of people who [TS]

00:34:57   had modems in their house and were [TS]

00:34:58   willing to get their loans on that lying [TS]

00:35:00   to it and everything and this is [TS]

00:35:02   interesting partner then AOL came along [TS]

00:35:04   right an AOL came at the time where the [TS]

00:35:09   people online graph was kinking and [TS]

00:35:11   doing that hockey stick thing right and [TS]

00:35:14   then all of a sudden the AOL diss for [TS]

00:35:16   everywhere and now you know your mom is [TS]

00:35:18   online everybody is online it's like [TS]

00:35:20   this is this is that moment when that [TS]

00:35:22   everything takes off you know surely AOL [TS]

00:35:24   will rule forever all right uh but and [TS]

00:35:27   I'm sure IOL thought that too no yeah [TS]

00:35:29   but then the line kinked again because [TS]

00:35:31   people didn't realize exactly how [TS]

00:35:32   vertical the slope of this graphic again [TS]

00:35:35   again with the internet it's like AOL [TS]

00:35:37   that everyone's on AOL yeah but only the [TS]

00:35:38   Nerds are online at all you know there's [TS]

00:35:40   parents that are his relatives and it [TS]

00:35:42   wasn't that you know once the internet [TS]

00:35:43   came then it was like no seriously [TS]

00:35:46   everybody everybody's going to be on and [TS]

00:35:49   AOL wasn't ready for that because they [TS]

00:35:50   had built their empire on the we are our [TS]

00:35:53   own online service and we'll build a [TS]

00:35:55   gateway to the internet for you or [TS]

00:35:56   whatever and they they they got run over [TS]

00:35:58   by by the internet basically and then [TS]

00:36:01   within the realm of the internet was [TS]

00:36:02   like let's start all right start over [TS]

00:36:04   new game new game guys forget about that [TS]

00:36:05   of this stuff AOL just got trounced the [TS]

00:36:07   internet is common run steamrolled [TS]

00:36:08   everybody but now within the internet [TS]

00:36:10   let's see what we can do for this you [TS]

00:36:12   know social networking society thing so [TS]

00:36:14   like geo cities or you could build your [TS]

00:36:16   own page and Friendster and LinkedIn and [TS]

00:36:18   Orkut and all sorts of stuff like that [TS]

00:36:20   where everyone was trying to build the [TS]

00:36:21   new social network on the new playing [TS]

00:36:23   field where there's just where the [TS]

00:36:24   stakes are much much higher because [TS]

00:36:25   everybody is in the internet the entire [TS]

00:36:26   world right so a lot of those were to [TS]

00:36:29   narrow like Flickr and stuff was never [TS]

00:36:31   going to be the dominant social network [TS]

00:36:33   just because it was focused on photos [TS]

00:36:35   sorry and some things like Google's [TS]

00:36:37   Orkut another example of Google kind of [TS]

00:36:39   dropping the ball there they just I [TS]

00:36:40   don't know what happens I wanted just [TS]

00:36:41   spawn off into left field now is just [TS]

00:36:43   all Brazilians on it or something I [TS]

00:36:44   forget right what countries orchid is [TS]

00:36:46   popular in it but it's massively popular [TS]

00:36:47   new countries but worldwide not so by [TS]

00:36:50   prinster that's a sad story you know we [TS]

00:36:52   all know what happened to them LinkedIn [TS]

00:36:53   is still around but it's more focused on [TS]

00:36:55   business you know when myspace came [TS]

00:36:58   along it was kind of the like [TS]

00:37:01   general-purpose social network it was [TS]

00:37:04   just a little tiny bit early right just [TS]

00:37:07   a little little tiny bit early in the [TS]

00:37:09   game so everyone was rushing to MySpace [TS]

00:37:11   and but it had the kind of that music [TS]

00:37:12   focus come look at my band's page and [TS]

00:37:14   stuff like that yeah I spaced pages and [TS]

00:37:16   I think the attraction to all these [TS]

00:37:18   things in the social network was let you [TS]

00:37:19   communicate with people online without [TS]

00:37:21   having technical expertise like that's [TS]

00:37:23   that's the pitch because everyone wants [TS]

00:37:24   to do stuff online they want to show [TS]

00:37:26   people pictures of their kids or talk to [TS]

00:37:27   their friends or whatever it is they [TS]

00:37:28   want to do but they don't have to know [TS]

00:37:31   anything about you know technology to do [TS]

00:37:33   it they just want to click some buttons [TS]

00:37:34   and just share with people the same way [TS]

00:37:35   you have social interactions in real [TS]

00:37:36   life you know so my spikes let people do [TS]

00:37:39   that but Facebook was you know right [TS]

00:37:42   there with them a little bit behind and [TS]

00:37:44   it was Facebook was slightly nicer than [TS]

00:37:46   MySpace like not as ugly not as many [TS]

00:37:48   flash [TS]

00:37:48   GGO city's looking the place add more [TS]

00:37:51   controlled growth because it was like [TS]

00:37:52   confined to college students first and [TS]

00:37:54   like slowly rolled out across the [TS]

00:37:55   country and that that sort of built [TS]

00:37:57   cachet for the service and it was just [TS]

00:38:00   perfectly timed for like the myspace [TS]

00:38:02   backlash when people were kind of sick [TS]

00:38:03   of my space when it's like everyone's [TS]

00:38:05   got a myspace page real Annoying and I [TS]

00:38:07   go there and there's animated stuff in [TS]

00:38:09   the background and I don't care about [TS]

00:38:10   your stupid band and I just want to [TS]

00:38:12   share photos with people and myspace [TS]

00:38:14   doesn't have enough features for yet to [TS]

00:38:16   let me do that and you know and Facebook [TS]

00:38:18   said we're the kind of a gentler [TS]

00:38:20   alternative that come over to us and and [TS]

00:38:22   they were a little bit later and and [TS]

00:38:23   that you know that was the the final [TS]

00:38:26   kink where everyone is online and like I [TS]

00:38:29   mean look at Facebook's numbers nothing [TS]

00:38:30   they like 500 million people [TS]

00:38:33   150 million people in the u.s. that's [TS]

00:38:35   that's about half the u.s. population [TS]

00:38:36   and it's the majority of like the [TS]

00:38:39   eligible population like if you think [TS]

00:38:41   about a baby's heart on Facebook and I [TS]

00:38:42   think you're not assignable if you're [TS]

00:38:44   not thirteen years old or something but [TS]

00:38:46   Facebook's the victory sort of like [TS]

00:38:48   Microsoft's was they got the biggest [TS]

00:38:50   piece of a just humongous pie and the [TS]

00:38:53   pie is not going to get any bigger [TS]

00:38:54   really you know in the u.s. because once [TS]

00:38:56   you've gotten more once you go over more [TS]

00:38:58   than half of the adult population is on [TS]

00:39:00   Facebook everything else is just you [TS]

00:39:02   know icing on top of that you've won [TS]

00:39:04   more or less I don't think they should [TS]

00:39:05   be afraid there's another kink coming [TS]

00:39:08   but the upshot of all these victories [TS]

00:39:10   here is that the bad things about the [TS]

00:39:13   victors become sort of entrenched aren't [TS]

00:39:16   enshrined in the and it businesses [TS]

00:39:18   themselves so if you think about [TS]

00:39:19   Microsoft like they won the battle for [TS]

00:39:22   the desktop they were everywhere right [TS]

00:39:23   but every bad thing about Microsoft was [TS]

00:39:26   now like made official [TS]

00:39:27   so hey so if they have any problems [TS]

00:39:30   their victim of their own success you [TS]

00:39:32   know so the windows everywhere was their [TS]

00:39:34   strategy and then you know serve them so [TS]

00:39:36   well they got windows to go everywhere [TS]

00:39:38   all right but windows everywhere is not [TS]

00:39:41   a good strategy when the internet comes [TS]

00:39:42   along hmm [TS]

00:39:43   we're gonna make the Internet run on [TS]

00:39:44   Windows and we'll use Windows Server as [TS]

00:39:46   well servers haven't really been our [TS]

00:39:47   strengths and I don't know how come the [TS]

00:39:49   internet really doesn't seem to need [TS]

00:39:50   Windows but no no windows everywhere [TS]

00:39:53   kind of mostly miss the the internet [TS]

00:39:55   revolution there hi and the same thing [TS]

00:39:58   with mobile like mobile that I think [TS]

00:39:59   Mobile is a next big thing well can we [TS]

00:40:01   do Windows [TS]

00:40:02   mobile I guess we can make Windows we [TS]

00:40:03   have Windows on tablets we have Windows [TS]

00:40:05   CE II for consumer electronics but you [TS]

00:40:07   know Windows Mobile C it's right in the [TS]

00:40:09   name Windows Mobile how about about [TS]

00:40:11   Windows Phone no they and it does it's [TS]

00:40:14   not even a technology thing it's just a [TS]

00:40:15   mindset where like they're their [TS]

00:40:18   platforms that they built it serve them [TS]

00:40:19   so well the windows API win32 getting [TS]

00:40:22   all those developers and everything like [TS]

00:40:23   that it just they couldn't apply that [TS]

00:40:25   same stuff to the mobile space as well [TS]

00:40:27   and you know they just couldn't get over [TS]

00:40:31   the hump maybe they will in the mobile [TS]

00:40:32   and Windows Phone we'll see how that [TS]

00:40:33   turns out but so far it's not going that [TS]

00:40:35   well and also their enterprise [TS]

00:40:36   entanglements like so I like to call [TS]

00:40:38   when you when you have lots of demanding [TS]

00:40:40   customers like all these companies that [TS]

00:40:41   have Windows PCs on their desks they [TS]

00:40:43   dictate to Microsoft more or less that [TS]

00:40:44   you know you can't change too much too [TS]

00:40:46   fast hmm and sometimes changing too much [TS]

00:40:48   too fast is what you need to do to get [TS]

00:40:50   on to the next big thing so this is a [TS]

00:40:52   fit you know Microsoft became ossified [TS]

00:40:53   and it's in its desktop victory state [TS]

00:40:57   now in Facebook's case this is another [TS]

00:41:02   complaint that you'd hear from nerds [TS]

00:41:03   about Facebook is that is that it's too [TS]

00:41:05   insular that it's not really a [TS]

00:41:06   participant in the web you know what I [TS]

00:41:08   mean it's kind of like an AOL where like [TS]

00:41:09   you go into Facebook and when you're in [TS]

00:41:11   Facebook there's a bunch of stuff in [TS]

00:41:13   that world but the outside web is a [TS]

00:41:16   foreign thing so you don't see lots of [TS]

00:41:17   deep links into Facebook right because [TS]

00:41:19   you can't see this person's page unless [TS]

00:41:20   you're a friend of them so why bother [TS]

00:41:21   giving a link it's like a separate thing [TS]

00:41:24   it's kind of like going into AOL where [TS]

00:41:26   you log in day oh well this is world of [TS]

00:41:27   keywords and these special things and [TS]

00:41:29   whatever they're doing and then there's [TS]

00:41:30   the outside web well in the web itself [TS]

00:41:32   there's the web and then there's [TS]

00:41:33   Facebook which is other little island [TS]

00:41:34   that you're going into all right I don't [TS]

00:41:38   know if that's going to be a long-term [TS]

00:41:40   problem so far it hasn't but it [TS]

00:41:42   definitely sort of defines what they're [TS]

00:41:43   doing you know like that's what Facebook [TS]

00:41:46   is like and if that ever becomes a real [TS]

00:41:48   problem for them I'm not sure they can [TS]

00:41:50   turn turn that ship fast enough to say [TS]

00:41:52   no no seriously we're a good web citizen [TS]

00:41:54   we have you know permanent URLs and [TS]

00:41:56   everything you know your data is not [TS]

00:41:58   just our data it's your data and you can [TS]

00:42:00   see your Facebook comment anywhere for [TS]

00:42:02   forever and you can search on it and so [TS]

00:42:03   on and so forth versus once you're [TS]

00:42:05   inside our walled garden you just do [TS]

00:42:07   whatever you do and we own all your data [TS]

00:42:08   hmm and and you can't get to it from the [TS]

00:42:10   outside and the other thing is that [TS]

00:42:13   they're free so we've got the same [TS]

00:42:14   situation as Google where the users [TS]

00:42:16   the product there and they're selling [TS]

00:42:17   they're making money somehow but it's [TS]

00:42:18   not from the users people aren't paying [TS]

00:42:20   to use Facebook and again so far that [TS]

00:42:21   hasn't been a problem for online things [TS]

00:42:23   in fact that seems to be the only way to [TS]

00:42:24   go from mass-market online things but if [TS]

00:42:26   it does become a problem they're going [TS]

00:42:29   to be in the same situation as Google [TS]

00:42:30   where their their customers are not the [TS]

00:42:33   customers and if someone figures out how [TS]

00:42:35   to make the customers the customers [TS]

00:42:37   they're vulnerable to that now what does [TS]

00:42:40   Facebook vulnerable to they vulnerable [TS]

00:42:42   to a Netscape type of situation like [TS]

00:42:44   Netscape came along and Microsoft [TS]

00:42:45   freaked out and had that internet tidal [TS]

00:42:46   wave memo and all sorts stuff yeah and [TS]

00:42:48   and they put down Netscape you know they [TS]

00:42:50   they think they put it out of its misery [TS]

00:42:52   they rose to that challenge that you [TS]

00:42:54   know panic scrambled and then they got [TS]

00:42:56   rid of Netscape more or less Internet [TS]

00:42:58   Explorer triumph right so maybe Facebook [TS]

00:43:00   and can fight off some challengers like [TS]

00:43:02   that but eventually you know they get [TS]

00:43:05   you right so when Google came along [TS]

00:43:07   Microsoft really had no answer to that [TS]

00:43:09   all right and when Facebook faces it's [TS]

00:43:11   Google maybe when it faces its Netscape [TS]

00:43:14   it might be able to to be nimble about [TS]

00:43:16   it but when it faces its Google perhaps [TS]

00:43:17   not [TS]

00:43:18   and that's basically like I had the boil [TS]

00:43:21   down I would say that Facebook just [TS]

00:43:22   doesn't seem nimble all right it seems [TS]

00:43:25   even less nimble than Microsoft was [TS]

00:43:26   because Microsoft for all of its [TS]

00:43:28   problems was willing to at least try to [TS]

00:43:31   do what it takes when the internet came [TS]

00:43:33   along they tried to turn the whole [TS]

00:43:34   company as fast as they could and again [TS]

00:43:35   a reasonable job of it and the same [TS]

00:43:37   thing with mobile they're trying to do [TS]

00:43:39   that now and I did like Facebook you see [TS]

00:43:42   all these complaints about Facebook but [TS]

00:43:44   they don't seem to change direction in [TS]

00:43:46   response to the complaints maybe the [TS]

00:43:47   thing they don't have - maybe they going [TS]

00:43:48   in the right direction already but they [TS]

00:43:49   just don't seem like if they had any [TS]

00:43:52   sort of serious challenger they would be [TS]

00:43:54   able to change direction now just like [TS]

00:43:55   Microsoft there was no one was going to [TS]

00:43:57   dethrone Microsoft from the desktop [TS]

00:43:58   right but that wasn't the challenge that [TS]

00:44:02   it had to be worded it had to be worried [TS]

00:44:03   about when it didn't matter that you [TS]

00:44:04   owned the desktop and then what do you [TS]

00:44:05   do so eventually this is this this is [TS]

00:44:08   the proper haps the weakest complained [TS]

00:44:10   about any couple maybe until the next [TS]

00:44:11   one eventually Facebook will say we are [TS]

00:44:13   the victors of social networking but [TS]

00:44:14   then social networking won't matter in [TS]

00:44:16   something else will Twitter kind of [TS]

00:44:18   looks a little bit like a Netscape to me [TS]

00:44:20   or there like a challenger to Facebook [TS]

00:44:24   because they're a different thing but [TS]

00:44:25   they're they're not playing the same [TS]

00:44:26   game as Facebook all right [TS]

00:44:28   maybe they are Google too I [TS]

00:44:30   so far I think Facebook tried to buy [TS]

00:44:32   them once but so far twitter hasn't been [TS]

00:44:34   a problem but when when when Facebook's [TS]

00:44:36   Google does come along I have little [TS]

00:44:38   faith that the company is going to be [TS]

00:44:39   nimble enough to turn their little [TS]

00:44:41   walled garden everything is free [TS]

00:44:43   advertisers pay us to get access to our [TS]

00:44:45   users information business model is [TS]

00:44:47   going to survive so that's Facebook [TS]

00:44:53   already problem until how long will that [TS]

00:44:55   take [TS]

00:44:55   I don't know it's like Microsoft had [TS]

00:44:59   quite a rain didn't they it was like you [TS]

00:45:00   know 10 years a long time right so long [TS]

00:45:03   so long that it was almost unimaginable [TS]

00:45:05   that they wouldn't be where they are [TS]

00:45:08   yeah and that's that's the network [TS]

00:45:10   effect like when you build up that many [TS]

00:45:11   people when the majority of eligible [TS]

00:45:13   people in the United States are using [TS]

00:45:15   your service no challenge was going to [TS]

00:45:17   come from behind right it swamp you in [TS]

00:45:20   some massive victory what's going to [TS]

00:45:21   happen is that your victory will not [TS]

00:45:23   will become less important and that the [TS]

00:45:25   game will change and the game will be [TS]

00:45:27   someplace else and no one will care that [TS]

00:45:29   everyone is on Facebook right so I think [TS]

00:45:32   that's what will happen some someone [TS]

00:45:34   will eventually come up with something [TS]

00:45:36   that's better than Facebook enough and [TS]

00:45:38   different enough that people start using [TS]

00:45:40   that and just slowly realize that [TS]

00:45:42   they've stopped using Facebook because [TS]

00:45:43   they're using this new thing but that [TS]

00:45:45   could be a while now the third one you [TS]

00:45:49   didn't say in the last episode what the [TS]

00:45:51   third company was now I know what it is [TS]

00:45:55   because it's in the notes and we sort of [TS]

00:45:57   talked about it but we a bunch of people [TS]

00:46:02   we're trying to guess they were sort of [TS]

00:46:03   guessing and a very few people actually [TS]

00:46:07   identified what it is it's been a [TS]

00:46:09   mystery for at leat for a week if not [TS]

00:46:11   more for people what is the third [TS]

00:46:15   company and before you say it let's say [TS]

00:46:18   thanks to world view this is a new and [TS]

00:46:19   totally addictive take on email [TS]

00:46:21   reporting from campaign monitor [TS]

00:46:23   basically when you send a newsletter [TS]

00:46:25   they will show you on a map in real-time [TS]

00:46:29   whenever somebody opens it when they [TS]

00:46:31   click on a link when they forward it to [TS]

00:46:33   a buddy okay but get this they also show [TS]

00:46:36   you who is liking your email on Facebook [TS]

00:46:39   perfect to mention there but also on [TS]

00:46:41   Twitter [TS]

00:46:42   and again on a map the moment that it [TS]

00:46:45   happens exact moment that it happens a [TS]

00:46:47   moment somebody mentions it clicks it [TS]

00:46:49   links it forwards it whatever you see [TS]

00:46:52   this on a map and here's the best part [TS]

00:46:53   it's free for every email campaign that [TS]

00:46:55   you send you can check out a demo of [TS]

00:46:57   this at campaign monitor comm slash [TS]

00:47:00   world view one word like that pretty [TS]

00:47:03   cool [TS]

00:47:04   all right company number three you know [TS]

00:47:08   I was surprised anybody in the chatroom [TS]

00:47:11   now wanna want to throw out what they [TS]

00:47:13   think it is cuz this is gonna surprise I [TS]

00:47:14   think it's going to surprise a lot of [TS]

00:47:15   people I like seeing people's guesses [TS]

00:47:17   because it gave me new ideas for other [TS]

00:47:19   companies and think about one of my [TS]

00:47:20   favorites was Dropbox like that's that's [TS]

00:47:23   that's the thing that interested me you [TS]

00:47:24   can you throw out a company and then I [TS]

00:47:26   can't think of anything bad about them [TS]

00:47:27   all right Dropbox I had to think a [TS]

00:47:30   little while but we're not taught this [TS]

00:47:31   Dropbox is not the company no a bunch of [TS]

00:47:33   people are saying Amazon and Twitter and [TS]

00:47:35   you know Microsoft's hard to think about [TS]

00:47:37   things that are bad about Microsoft here [TS]

00:47:39   that's not that's not a challenge this [TS]

00:47:42   is this is the kind of thing people who [TS]

00:47:44   hear what you're about to say are likely [TS]

00:47:46   gonna just turn the show off because [TS]

00:47:48   you're hitting you're hitting in it and [TS]

00:47:50   we're never turn the show off because [TS]

00:47:51   they want their ideas challenged this [TS]

00:47:54   company is the sole the very backbone of [TS]

00:47:57   uh of America Zappos out that's a good [TS]

00:48:03   one Zappos is a good guess I'm not in [TS]

00:48:05   Zappos but everyone seems to love it I [TS]

00:48:06   don't think I've ever even bought [TS]

00:48:07   anything from it so far in the chat room [TS]

00:48:08   nobody who's gone to get let's let's [TS]

00:48:10   let's uh let's lower that the hatchet [TS]

00:48:13   let's let him have right so this this is [TS]

00:48:16   the biggest challenge and company that [TS]

00:48:18   you can think of something what what's [TS]

00:48:20   the what's wrong with this company [TS]

00:48:21   nothing just answer me his pics are no [TS]

00:48:25   have you ever heard nothing's wrong with [TS]

00:48:27   Big Show are ever had anyone say [TS]

00:48:29   anything bad about fix on the this [TS]

00:48:31   company is the heart and soul of [TS]

00:48:32   everything that's right with America [TS]

00:48:36   there's nothing wrong with them how dare [TS]

00:48:38   you [TS]

00:48:38   and it's another Steve Jobs company [TS]

00:48:40   right now think about Apple this you [TS]

00:48:42   have no problem finding people who can [TS]

00:48:44   say something that's wrong about Apple [TS]

00:48:45   right it's Steve Jobs baby you know but [TS]

00:48:48   you can find it's too can throw a rock [TS]

00:48:50   on the internet without somebody that [TS]

00:48:51   hates Apple but then look at this other [TS]

00:48:52   company Pixar can you find anybody who [TS]

00:48:54   has ever said anything bad about pixel [TS]

00:48:56   and they're sure it's not because I [TS]

00:48:58   haven't try but here here John I'll tell [TS]

00:49:00   you something bad about Pixar this is [TS]

00:49:01   horrible this is something they should [TS]

00:49:02   be totally ashamed of is that the [TS]

00:49:05   graphics in Toy Story 1 weren't as good [TS]

00:49:07   as they weren't oyster 2 and the ones in [TS]

00:49:09   Toy Story 2 weren't as good as the [TS]

00:49:11   graphics in Toy Story 3 I'm a shame on [TS]

00:49:13   the horrible company can you believe [TS]

00:49:14   that yeah that's the type of stuff you [TS]

00:49:16   can only you can only variables that and [TS]

00:49:19   this this is oh yeah I didn't come at [TS]

00:49:21   this as a I'm trying to think of a [TS]

00:49:23   company that is so good that I can't [TS]

00:49:25   think of anything wrong with it this [TS]

00:49:26   came to me in the opposite direction as [TS]

00:49:27   things always do I was I forget what I [TS]

00:49:29   was thinking about I saw I saw a tweet [TS]

00:49:31   and it made me think about Pixar and it [TS]

00:49:34   made me realize that that they have a [TS]

00:49:36   weakness [TS]

00:49:36   we're just shocking because every other [TS]

00:49:38   thought I've ever had about Pixar was [TS]

00:49:40   the how wonderful they are now perfectly [TS]

00:49:41   alright so again this is not trying to [TS]

00:49:44   say that the Pixar is a horrible company [TS]

00:49:46   Pixar is perhaps the best company in the [TS]

00:49:47   entire universe so would why which is [TS]

00:49:50   why what's wrong with them you think of [TS]

00:49:52   one thing that's wrong trying to think [TS]

00:49:53   of what you're gonna I'm trying to think [TS]

00:49:55   of what you're gonna say yeah it's and [TS]

00:49:57   again like my facebook one was weak it's [TS]

00:49:58   like oh they'll be so dominant it that [TS]

00:50:01   eventually they'll miss the next big [TS]

00:50:02   thing like that's pretty weak already ah [TS]

00:50:04   this may be even weaker and less [TS]

00:50:07   convinced are you going to say that it's [TS]

00:50:08   because they and people in the chat room [TS]

00:50:10   are this wasn't the one thing I had [TS]

00:50:11   thought of and this is what people in [TS]

00:50:13   the chat room are saying is it because [TS]

00:50:15   of their I guess Disney owns them or [TS]

00:50:18   their relationship with Disney is that [TS]

00:50:20   it that's a good guess actually because [TS]

00:50:22   that's the fear of like you know when [TS]

00:50:24   Disney takes over they'll do make bad [TS]

00:50:25   decisions but I think it was kind of a [TS]

00:50:27   reverse takeover where a Pixar Pixar [TS]

00:50:28   took over Disney animation sure does [TS]

00:50:30   seem like it for kind of like next you [TS]

00:50:32   know Apple bought next but you know next [TS]

00:50:34   all right but for now I'm I'm not [TS]

00:50:37   worried about that oh no here's here's [TS]

00:50:39   the tweet this between actually came [TS]

00:50:41   from I wish you would tell us how to [TS]

00:50:43   pronounce his name [TS]

00:50:43   Horus did do a Simcoe a Simcoe calm that [TS]

00:50:47   guy yeah he's great he tweeted this and [TS]

00:50:50   this this triggered this thought process [TS]

00:50:52   his tweet was Pixar developed the [TS]

00:50:54   process to engineer art Apple develop [TS]

00:50:56   the process to make art of engineering [TS]

00:50:58   and that says you know it's a nice tweet [TS]

00:51:00   about to Steve Jobs companies and their [TS]

00:51:02   and their different approaches one is in [TS]

00:51:03   the world of creativity and they brought [TS]

00:51:05   technology to bear and apples in the [TS]

00:51:07   world of technology and they brought [TS]

00:51:08   creativity to bear and it's [TS]

00:51:10   Steve Jobs his thing that he puts up [TS]

00:51:11   that street sign the intersection of [TS]

00:51:12   liberal arts and technology you know [TS]

00:51:14   he's done that for the past couple years [TS]

00:51:16   and this was a little encapsulation of [TS]

00:51:18   that and it reminded me of something [TS]

00:51:21   that I saw it was a talk from Ed Catmull [TS]

00:51:26   in 2007 to the Stanford Graduate School [TS]

00:51:28   of Business I put the link in the show [TS]

00:51:30   notes and I just want to do a sidebar in [TS]

00:51:32   the show notes because I know sometimes [TS]

00:51:33   when I listen to podcasts and they're [TS]

00:51:35   like oh yeah we'll have a link in the [TS]

00:51:36   show notes no one has any idea how the [TS]

00:51:37   heck to get to the show notes because [TS]

00:51:39   you're listening to a podcast and you're [TS]

00:51:41   doing whatever you're jogging you're you [TS]

00:51:43   know you're walking around your [TS]

00:51:44   headphones on you have no idea [TS]

00:51:45   like can I remember that the name of the [TS]

00:51:47   show where is that the URL of the site [TS]

00:51:49   how do I get to the show notes and by [TS]

00:51:51   the time you get back to the computer [TS]

00:51:52   you've forgotten so here for the people [TS]

00:51:54   who keep here as we're hearing us refer [TS]

00:51:55   to show notes and have no idea where [TS]

00:51:57   they are this is where it is it's the [TS]

00:51:59   number five by5 dot TV slash [TS]

00:52:04   hypercritical right [TS]

00:52:05   I've by five dot TV slash hypercritical [TS]

00:52:07   now will list all the episodes you click [TS]

00:52:09   on one of the episodes and you will see [TS]

00:52:10   the show notes yeah I just go to the [TS]

00:52:12   episode that you were listening to if [TS]

00:52:14   you know it and we have descriptions up [TS]

00:52:15   there of each episode so if you weren't [TS]

00:52:17   sure which is the one where John was [TS]

00:52:19   talking about which companies were the [TS]

00:52:21   bad ones that'll be there right in the [TS]

00:52:22   description so some some reading will be [TS]

00:52:24   involved if you're not sure of the [TS]

00:52:26   number but we also do say the number at [TS]

00:52:28   the top of the show I already said the [TS]

00:52:30   distinguish I don't know if people know [TS]

00:52:31   that you have to go to five by five dot [TS]

00:52:33   TV like that you know they go [TS]

00:52:35   hypercritical com or they try to click [TS]

00:52:37   through an iTunes so just there it is [TS]

00:52:38   I'm by five dot TV slash hypercritical [TS]

00:52:40   you will find the show notes and I say [TS]

00:52:42   this because this Ed Catmull speech Ed [TS]

00:52:45   Catmull is one of the founders of Pixar [TS]

00:52:46   uh this talk that he gave it's really [TS]

00:52:49   long he talks slowly and he looks like [TS]

00:52:51   your dad right I take the time out to [TS]

00:52:55   watch this thing I think is like an hour [TS]

00:52:56   long or whatever it is really long and [TS]

00:52:57   you think you're going to be bored but [TS]

00:52:59   if you find this podcast remotely [TS]

00:53:01   interesting I think you'll you will get [TS]

00:53:03   tremendous value out of watching this so [TS]

00:53:04   you should watch this this very long [TS]

00:53:06   video of Ed Catmull talking he talks [TS]

00:53:08   about the founding of Pixar but mostly [TS]

00:53:11   about how Pixar faced its challenges [TS]

00:53:14   like when Pixar had many trials and [TS]

00:53:16   tribulations that from the outside you [TS]

00:53:17   would not imagine that they had because [TS]

00:53:19   we just see the results and the results [TS]

00:53:20   are wonderful these great movies right [TS]

00:53:21   but he talks about how [TS]

00:53:23   how did this happen how did this company [TS]

00:53:25   make these great movies time and time [TS]

00:53:26   again and what are the problems that [TS]

00:53:28   face and how did address them and the [TS]

00:53:30   reason I thought of it is because that [TS]

00:53:32   tweet was saying you know the Pixar [TS]

00:53:33   developed a process to engineer art and [TS]

00:53:35   Edie cat moles talk talks about that [TS]

00:53:37   process he's an engineer he was you know [TS]

00:53:41   a technical guy not a business guy who [TS]

00:53:43   just became a business guy because he [TS]

00:53:46   was the founder of the company and he [TS]

00:53:47   took a technical approach to to doing [TS]

00:53:50   business stuff you know it's like let's [TS]

00:53:54   find something that went wrong think of [TS]

00:53:57   a solution for it and then formalize the [TS]

00:53:59   solution to prevent the problem from [TS]

00:54:00   happening again so you're trying to [TS]

00:54:01   ratchet your company up so every time [TS]

00:54:03   there's a problem address it formalize [TS]

00:54:05   the solution and you know and make that [TS]

00:54:07   part of your process and they want and [TS]

00:54:09   that's what engineers want they want a [TS]

00:54:10   repeatable process all right they don't [TS]

00:54:12   they don't want touchy-feely kind of let [TS]

00:54:15   the artist do his work because that's [TS]

00:54:16   not predictable process is predictable [TS]

00:54:19   and an engineering approach is to say [TS]

00:54:20   look if our process is not producing [TS]

00:54:23   things that we that are creatives find [TS]

00:54:24   are good the process is broken so let's [TS]

00:54:26   adjust the process now see how income [TS]

00:54:32   with this so this approach produces all [TS]

00:54:36   the movies that we've seen these Pixar [TS]

00:54:38   movies and it just it it's kind of a [TS]

00:54:40   triumph of engineering to say that you [TS]

00:54:41   can engineer creativity by taking an [TS]

00:54:45   engineering approach to something that [TS]

00:54:47   used to be purely within the realm of [TS]

00:54:49   emotions that like that like take motion [TS]

00:54:50   out of the equation and this in the Ed [TS]

00:54:52   Catmull speech you'll see lots of [TS]

00:54:53   situations where they threw away a [TS]

00:54:54   tremendous amount of work they had done [TS]

00:54:56   which you know is not what artists will [TS]

00:54:59   want to do they will fight for their [TS]

00:55:00   creation forever and but you know [TS]

00:55:03   they're taking a dispassionate [TS]

00:55:04   engineering approach and saying no we [TS]

00:55:06   have to throw this out it's not good [TS]

00:55:07   enough let's try again all right [TS]

00:55:09   that's a Steve Jobs approach getting [TS]

00:55:10   back to the criticism thing of just not [TS]

00:55:12   letting anything that's not good enough [TS]

00:55:13   out the door the key thing is not that [TS]

00:55:15   Pixar is amazingly wonderful about doing [TS]

00:55:18   everything they're just amazingly [TS]

00:55:19   wonderful about killing anything that's [TS]

00:55:21   not good right it's the opposite [TS]

00:55:23   approach it's that they they have the [TS]

00:55:24   same failures as everybody else they [TS]

00:55:26   just do not let the failures out the [TS]

00:55:27   door so that's that's their approach to [TS]

00:55:30   this but what this approach I think [TS]

00:55:32   gives you is a to do like Pixar which I [TS]

00:55:36   would say that they're over [TS]

00:55:37   average of product is better than anyone [TS]

00:55:40   elses I can't think of another movie [TS]

00:55:42   studio or another another entity that [TS]

00:55:44   has produced a higher average quality [TS]

00:55:46   you know just movie after movie after [TS]

00:55:47   movie to average them together just head [TS]

00:55:51   and shoulders but above everybody else [TS]

00:55:53   but what I was thinking about is John [TS]

00:55:55   Lasseter another was he a founder of [TS]

00:55:57   Pixar he was one of the early creatives [TS]

00:55:59   brought in and how he said he's a bigwig [TS]

00:56:00   at Pixar brain a stylist he's been [TS]

00:56:02   running it for a long time for de-facto [TS]

00:56:04   running in right because you know he's [TS]

00:56:06   jobs isn't there because he's at Apple [TS]

00:56:08   or whatever so Lassiter's running things [TS]

00:56:10   and he's a creative rent and his hero [TS]

00:56:12   that he talks about all the time one of [TS]

00:56:15   his his animation Heroes is a Miyazaki [TS]

00:56:17   Japanese animator and and this and I'm [TS]

00:56:21   also he's active and I thought about [TS]

00:56:22   this I thought if you were to ask John [TS]

00:56:25   Lasseter would he say that any Pixar [TS]

00:56:28   movie is as good or better than his [TS]

00:56:30   favorite Miyazaki and if you think about [TS]

00:56:34   Miyazaki's work the average quality of [TS]

00:56:37   Miyazaki movies I would say is like not [TS]

00:56:41   up to Pixar stands there that you know [TS]

00:56:42   they're like throwaway ones and duds [TS]

00:56:44   here and there yeah I think the peaks of [TS]

00:56:47   Miyazaki's work higher than the peaks of [TS]

00:56:49   any of Pixar's work and I think it's [TS]

00:56:52   because Pixar's approach to engineering [TS]

00:56:55   is preventing them from ever having big [TS]

00:56:57   failures but also preventing them from [TS]

00:56:59   having a transcendent success to the [TS]

00:57:03   heights of the best of Miyazaki hmm and [TS]

00:57:06   I'm wondering if you even if you ask [TS]

00:57:07   John Lasseter the V Pixar guy would he [TS]

00:57:09   would he agree would he say that he has [TS]

00:57:11   matched his hero in any particular way [TS]

00:57:13   in any movie and would do what'd he say [TS]

00:57:16   that he has surpassed his favorite you [TS]

00:57:18   know so I think this this approach to [TS]

00:57:19   engineering art the advantages you get a [TS]

00:57:22   consistently good product the [TS]

00:57:24   disadvantage may be that you can never [TS]

00:57:26   get that highest high because I think to [TS]

00:57:28   get the highest high you have to be [TS]

00:57:29   willing to have big failures you have to [TS]

00:57:32   be willing to have the riskier [TS]

00:57:33   divergences that don't fit within your [TS]

00:57:35   past experience your past experience is [TS]

00:57:36   telling you this is not good do not let [TS]

00:57:38   it out the door everything that is made [TS]

00:57:39   you have series of hit movies one after [TS]

00:57:42   the other all that you know knowledge [TS]

00:57:44   and experience is telling you do not let [TS]

00:57:46   this happen because this will be bad and [TS]

00:57:47   that is killing the more sort of divert [TS]

00:57:51   interesting ideas before they you know [TS]

00:57:54   they get out the door now if you watch [TS]

00:57:56   the Ed Catmull speech he talks about [TS]

00:57:58   this this is obviously the engineering [TS]

00:57:59   approaches to acknowledge this is the [TS]

00:58:01   fact that that a process can stifle [TS]

00:58:02   creativity so we have to let people you [TS]

00:58:04   know bring in new blood bring in fresh [TS]

00:58:06   people don't shoot down a just because [TS]

00:58:07   I'm not what we haven't done before but [TS]

00:58:09   I have to think that that approach that [TS]

00:58:11   that when I see this numb this many [TS]

00:58:14   consistently good movies coming out it [TS]

00:58:16   makes me think there's there's a [TS]

00:58:18   sickness in the company that is not [TS]

00:58:20   going to let them ever have the [TS]

00:58:22   transcendent success because I think [TS]

00:58:23   they have the transcendent success you [TS]

00:58:24   have to be allow for the big failures [TS]

00:58:26   and the fact they haven't had a big [TS]

00:58:27   failure makes me think that that's a [TS]

00:58:29   problem with their process hmm so you [TS]

00:58:32   almost you would almost feel better [TS]

00:58:34   about Pixar if they had had a big [TS]

00:58:37   failure like yeah do something ambitious [TS]

00:58:40   really really ambitious and have it fall [TS]

00:58:42   on its face right and because you would [TS]

00:58:45   think after this period of time it's not [TS]

00:58:47   like you expect their second movie to be [TS]

00:58:48   that but they're this period of time [TS]

00:58:49   surely they're you know you're not [TS]

00:58:51   taking enough risks if you're not if [TS]

00:58:53   you're never failing right and this gets [TS]

00:58:56   back to speech to one of the things he [TS]

00:58:58   talks about in the speeches like like [TS]

00:59:00   what I'm saying is it it's not like I'm [TS]

00:59:03   saying Pixar is horrible or doom drink [TS]

00:59:05   like that is exact opposite of that [TS]

00:59:06   right but it doesn't mean that this one [TS]

00:59:08   thing I had to dig out this tiny little [TS]

00:59:10   nugget I had to dig out of you know so [TS]

00:59:11   hard to think of anything wrong with [TS]

00:59:12   Pixar doesn't mean that this is any less [TS]

00:59:14   dire than any more obvious thing that's [TS]

00:59:16   wrong with other companies and as Edie [TS]

00:59:18   camel says in the speech success hides [TS]

00:59:20   problems and the more successful you are [TS]

00:59:22   the bigger problems you can hide so the [TS]

00:59:24   fact that I that this never occurred to [TS]

00:59:26   me until I got triggered by that [TS]

00:59:28   engineering art phrase nothing doesn't [TS]

00:59:29   mean that this is not a real problem and [TS]

00:59:31   it doesn't mean that this problem [TS]

00:59:32   actually isn't is small it might be a [TS]

00:59:34   big problem because they've had such [TS]

00:59:35   massive success and the more successful [TS]

00:59:37   you are the more it hides problems like [TS]

00:59:39   that you know you can you know you get [TS]

00:59:43   my thing is like how long can Pixar [TS]

00:59:45   continue like this [TS]

00:59:46   how long can Pixar possibly make the [TS]

00:59:51   same great movies over and over again [TS]

00:59:53   like will they ever fail and at a [TS]

00:59:56   certain point the culture of the company [TS]

00:59:57   becomes make sure we [TS]

00:59:57   becomes make sure we [TS]

01:00:00   don't have a failure instead of make [TS]

01:00:02   sure the next movie is just the best [TS]

01:00:04   movie we ever made [TS]

01:00:06   I don't know if there at that point yet [TS]

01:00:08   what I hear from inside you know Pixar [TS]

01:00:11   about their plans and everything sounds [TS]

01:00:12   to me like they know that this is an [TS]

01:00:14   issue and they're actively working to [TS]

01:00:16   fight it like when they brought in Brad [TS]

01:00:17   Bird for The Incredibles for example [TS]

01:00:18   like they know that they need to do this [TS]

01:00:22   they know like make our next movie [TS]

01:00:23   completely unlike any movie we've ever [TS]

01:00:25   made before you know bringing new people [TS]

01:00:28   to do it people who are not constrained [TS]

01:00:30   by the ideas of our previous movies but [TS]

01:00:33   yeah yeah like I said the fact that I [TS]

01:00:35   don't see any big flops the fact that I [TS]

01:00:36   don't see any super ambitious product [TS]

01:00:38   but you know that falls on its face [TS]

01:00:39   makes me think they're not risking [TS]

01:00:41   enough but so but if you look at if you [TS]

01:00:43   look at what they did with Toy Story 1 [TS]

01:00:45   that was that was that risk that moved [TS]

01:00:48   only the first one is you know is the [TS]

01:00:50   big risk you know just registering [TS]

01:00:52   they're not evolving they're not [TS]

01:00:54   continuing to push the envelope in any [TS]

01:00:56   way so what would that look like what [TS]

01:00:57   would a big risk look like well that's [TS]

01:00:59   what I was going to ask I mean would be [TS]

01:01:00   for example again you don't say you have [TS]

01:01:03   to do any of these things I'm just [TS]

01:01:04   trying to think of things that would be [TS]

01:01:05   diverged so a big divergence would be a [TS]

01:01:06   movie that's not for kids obviously I [TS]

01:01:08   think they did The Incredibles that was [TS]

01:01:09   PG but the seriously a movie for adults [TS]

01:01:12   you know another risk would be a movie [TS]

01:01:15   in a genre that they that had they've [TS]

01:01:18   never done before like trying to do [TS]

01:01:20   photo realism not because that that's [TS]

01:01:22   what you should do because animation is [TS]

01:01:23   bad but just because it's the opposite [TS]

01:01:24   of what they've done so far and all [TS]

01:01:27   these may be bad ideas but if some if [TS]

01:01:29   someone has some inspiration to do [TS]

01:01:31   something great based on one of these [TS]

01:01:33   ideas I wouldn't I would like to see [TS]

01:01:36   that idea run with instead of you know [TS]

01:01:39   tried but then you know thrown away [TS]

01:01:41   because it wasn't good enough or or [TS]

01:01:43   reworked or just you know we want to put [TS]

01:01:46   out a solid product but we're not [TS]

01:01:48   willing to risk you on you know it was [TS]

01:01:49   at some point it's gonna be someone who [TS]

01:01:50   has some crazy idea that's so good but [TS]

01:01:52   that everyone at Pixar disagrees with [TS]

01:01:54   right and I would like to see that guy [TS]

01:01:56   given a chance to do what he wants [TS]

01:01:59   despite the fact that everyone thinks is [TS]

01:02:00   going to be a disaster just in case it's [TS]

01:02:02   something amazing when you've got a [TS]

01:02:03   single guy like Miyazaki I think he has [TS]

01:02:05   a higher level of control there and he [TS]

01:02:06   can do his duds where he's like I'm [TS]

01:02:07   really into you know cats and I'm going [TS]

01:02:09   to do a movie about that no it's not [TS]

01:02:10   great you know so he has hits and misses [TS]

01:02:13   that's what [TS]

01:02:13   individuals like but an organization [TS]

01:02:15   sort of smooths out the lumps but I want [TS]

01:02:18   to see those lumps on these lumps stick [TS]

01:02:19   up I'm not so interested in a lot and [TS]

01:02:20   the values that go down the the duds I'm [TS]

01:02:22   not saying I need to have a bad movie [TS]

01:02:24   you know I want to see those Peaks that [TS]

01:02:26   poke out and I think you need to have [TS]

01:02:28   the valleys to get the peaks not dare [TS]

01:02:33   you yeah you know like I would never [TS]

01:02:37   have said this three years ago four [TS]

01:02:38   years ago but Pixar has been around for [TS]

01:02:40   a long time now and it's just something [TS]

01:02:43   beyond the chat room brought cars to I [TS]

01:02:45   know nothing about cars too and I [TS]

01:02:47   suspect that Pixar's magic is that even [TS]

01:02:49   though you think Cars 2 is going to be [TS]

01:02:50   dumb and it's just a sequel it's got to [TS]

01:02:51   in the title they do what no one else [TS]

01:02:54   does and you make a good sequel like Toy [TS]

01:02:55   Story 2 is fantastic Toy Story 3 was [TS]

01:02:57   fantastic and movies with numbers after [TS]

01:02:59   them are supposed to get worse and be [TS]

01:03:00   horrible and they're not because of [TS]

01:03:02   Pixar's process they're not but Cars 2 [TS]

01:03:05   does not make me think this is going to [TS]

01:03:06   be the transcend most amazing movie the [TS]

01:03:08   Lassiter is finally going to agree is [TS]

01:03:10   better than his favorite Miyazaki movie [TS]

01:03:11   you know what I mean yeah no I hear you [TS]

01:03:13   there and I actually haven't I I've seen [TS]

01:03:15   previews of cars too I'm not I'm not in [TS]

01:03:17   love with it but I don't I don't feel [TS]

01:03:21   like that qualifies as being a flop [TS]

01:03:23   because it it doesn't strike me as a [TS]

01:03:24   movie that's taking a risk and we don't [TS]

01:03:28   know I mean I think when they say [TS]

01:03:31   they're making Toy Story 2 it's like oh [TS]

01:03:32   you can't do that man Toy Story 1 was [TS]

01:03:34   just so perfect why do you have to go [TS]

01:03:35   and make a sequel but if they have [TS]

01:03:36   something new and interesting to say you [TS]

01:03:38   can do a sequel well but it's really [TS]

01:03:40   difficult for a sequel to sort of break [TS]

01:03:43   through and reach new heights it's [TS]

01:03:46   sequels can be better than the original [TS]

01:03:47   like I think Toy Story 2 in many ways is [TS]

01:03:49   better than Toy Story 1 and some people [TS]

01:03:51   would make the same argument for three [TS]

01:03:52   but it's not like an order of magnitude [TS]

01:03:54   better whereas if somebody wants to do [TS]

01:03:57   like an adult murder mystery in in CG [TS]

01:04:01   that and it's fantastic and it like it [TS]

01:04:04   wins the Academy Award for Best Picture [TS]

01:04:05   above live-action movies or something [TS]

01:04:07   like that's the type of victory that I'm [TS]

01:04:09   talking about now that is not going to [TS]

01:04:11   happen that if they're not willing to [TS]

01:04:14   take the risk of just falling on their [TS]

01:04:15   face and the rienne again the reason I [TS]

01:04:17   think they're not taking the risk of [TS]

01:04:18   falling on the face is because they [TS]

01:04:19   haven't over such a long period of time [TS]

01:04:21   surely if they were risking falling on [TS]

01:04:23   their face they would have done it by [TS]

01:04:24   now law of averages right [TS]

01:04:28   maybe maybe no become more optimistic [TS]

01:04:32   about them than you are it's not no I [TS]

01:04:35   didn't get I don't think so this is you [TS]

01:04:37   know Pixar is doomed but you know [TS]

01:04:41   nothing is so perfect right that's true [TS]

01:04:45   you really like [TS]

01:04:46   again I would encourage everybody to [TS]

01:04:48   watch that Ed Catmull talk because it is [TS]

01:04:49   just fantastic isn't the show notes it [TS]

01:04:52   is in the show notes well here's you [TS]

01:04:54   here's another thing here's another [TS]

01:04:55   thing you can do if you're a big fan and [TS]

01:04:57   you want show notes and you don't want [TS]

01:04:59   to be bothered to go to the website you [TS]

01:05:02   can subscribe to any one of these feeds [TS]

01:05:05   you have to go to the website once to [TS]

01:05:08   get the URL for them but once you do [TS]

01:05:10   that you can subscribe to them in your [TS]

01:05:11   in your news reader whatever that is [TS]

01:05:13   whatever app or or platform you want to [TS]

01:05:16   use and the show notes are in there and [TS]

01:05:19   your news reader should be smart enough [TS]

01:05:20   not to try to download the the mp3 file [TS]

01:05:23   attachment but it'll just show you the [TS]

01:05:25   notes of full notes with links and text [TS]

01:05:27   and everything right in there so you [TS]

01:05:29   don't even have to go to the website [TS]

01:05:30   well they didn't even know I didn't even [TS]

01:05:32   know this sure we're going to the [TS]

01:05:33   website simple you should go to the [TS]

01:05:35   website but to subscribe and in your [TS]

01:05:39   news reader and you'll see them right [TS]

01:05:40   there that said this is a custom [TS]

01:05:44   solution that I wrote myself that's why [TS]

01:05:46   there's so many options and that's also [TS]

01:05:48   why there's so many little bugs [TS]

01:05:50   well you'll fix those someone in the [TS]

01:05:53   chatroom is saying that up and Wally are [TS]

01:05:55   examples of the big risks and I guess it [TS]

01:05:58   just so happens that they they succeeded [TS]

01:06:01   so if you think about those two movies [TS]

01:06:04   what was risky about Wally [TS]

01:06:06   well everyone cites the beginning part [TS]

01:06:09   where there's no dialogue and everything [TS]

01:06:10   as it's risky I keep kids attention but [TS]

01:06:13   you know kids are entertained by puppet [TS]

01:06:14   shows for the puppets don't talk so I [TS]

01:06:17   don't think it's a risk to do physical [TS]

01:06:19   comedy to kids and keep their attention [TS]

01:06:21   and I would say that the the larger [TS]

01:06:24   story the larger ecological saved the [TS]

01:06:26   planet story on wall-e was kind of [TS]

01:06:28   ham-fisted not that I'm not a fan of [TS]

01:06:30   wall-e but I I'm not as impressed by [TS]

01:06:33   that it wasn't it wasn't as subtle as I [TS]

01:06:37   thought it should have been [TS]

01:06:39   up I guess the risk there is the main [TS]

01:06:42   character is an old guy but then they [TS]

01:06:43   put in the cute kid anyway so there was [TS]

01:06:45   someone for the little kids in the [TS]

01:06:46   audience to relate to yeah and the risk [TS]

01:06:48   is showing that sequence it ends in a [TS]

01:06:49   sad note I'm not sure how devastated [TS]

01:06:53   children were by that opening segment [TS]

01:06:55   our ones going to tell me right into [TS]

01:06:57   their kid cried during that part but it [TS]

01:06:58   was I think it was more devastating to [TS]

01:07:00   people who can relate to the idea of [TS]

01:07:02   being married and you know Ramona little [TS]

01:07:05   kids and stuff like that right so adults [TS]

01:07:07   have more of a line into that thing even [TS]

01:07:09   if the kids cried about it too because [TS]

01:07:10   they didn't like it when they that the [TS]

01:07:11   old lady died but that was that was more [TS]

01:07:14   aimed at the adult so I don't think that [TS]

01:07:15   was a risk to do something like that [TS]

01:07:17   because I didn't think kids were going [TS]

01:07:18   to leave that knot I didn't think was a [TS]

01:07:21   risk obviously was a risk but it wasn't [TS]

01:07:22   the type of we may fall on our face [TS]

01:07:25   completely risk because I think if you [TS]

01:07:27   told anyone you were going to do that [TS]

01:07:28   they would say yeah I can see how that [TS]

01:07:29   can work because the kids you know won't [TS]

01:07:31   be too devastated by they won't leave [TS]

01:07:32   the theater crying and tears but the [TS]

01:07:34   parents will be drawn in and then we've [TS]

01:07:35   got them for the rest of the movie mmm [TS]

01:07:37   it's easy to explain why that's going to [TS]

01:07:39   work it's not as easy to explain why you [TS]

01:07:42   think you know I don't let me think of [TS]

01:07:44   another crazy idea for Pixar I keep [TS]

01:07:46   going about the photorealism simply [TS]

01:07:47   because they haven't done it and [TS]

01:07:48   everyone says it's a horrible idea like [TS]

01:07:50   do not do photo realism there's no point [TS]

01:07:51   in it and the strength of animation is [TS]

01:07:53   that doesn't look like real life just do [TS]

01:07:54   not do it but you know that that's [TS]

01:07:57   that's a pic for you know whatever you [TS]

01:07:58   need to do that and then do an adult [TS]

01:07:59   genre you know - I don't know oh can you [TS]

01:08:04   think of a genre that would be the exact [TS]

01:08:06   opposite of what Pixar has done I think [TS]

01:08:07   murder mystery but that might be too [TS]

01:08:09   close gosh that's a tough question a [TS]

01:08:13   photo realistic CG movie about the [TS]

01:08:15   Holocaust let's bring up the Hoff [TS]

01:08:16   singing cuz listeners love when I like [TS]

01:08:19   Gimli Schindler's List you know it from [TS]

01:08:22   Pixar right I never say this is this is [TS]

01:08:24   the worst idea ever first of all you're [TS]

01:08:25   doing it for realistic what the heck is [TS]

01:08:26   the point why Andrews do with [TS]

01:08:27   live-action hack just a second of all [TS]

01:08:29   doing and doing anything having to with [TS]

01:08:31   the Holocaust in animation is insulting [TS]

01:08:32   to the actual like it is a terrible idea [TS]

01:08:34   and they would never let that idea go [TS]

01:08:36   through and it's exactly opposite of [TS]

01:08:37   what they do and maybe it is a terrible [TS]

01:08:39   idea maybe that idea would fall on its [TS]

01:08:40   face but these the type of I'm trying to [TS]

01:08:41   think of the worst possible idea ever [TS]

01:08:43   these are the type of ideas that someday [TS]

01:08:46   someone's going to happen on the with [TS]

01:08:47   you I don't how about the Godfather yeah [TS]

01:08:51   there you go like organized [TS]

01:08:52   crime drama yeah for adults only rated-r [TS]

01:08:55   more not a Yakuza thing it has to be in [TS]

01:08:58   the American mob yes because has been [TS]

01:09:01   done in animation it's been great yeah [TS]

01:09:06   so maybe that'll come by what is what is [TS]

01:09:07   Pixar's a next project I forget I think [TS]

01:09:09   it's a mob film for adults only no it [TS]

01:09:13   was that every time I hear what the next [TS]

01:09:15   film was going to be I'm surprised so it [TS]

01:09:16   shows that they are innovating but the [TS]

01:09:19   fact that they have never ever failed [TS]

01:09:20   and makes me suspect of this whole [TS]

01:09:22   engineering art thing so what's next [TS]

01:09:26   week's topic gonna be oh I gotta pull [TS]

01:09:30   the page we gotta take your time we're [TS]

01:09:40   getting down to just the ones that you [TS]

01:09:41   don't want to pick then you have to pick [TS]

01:09:44   one oh I know you want the the third one [TS]

01:09:48   because you've picked it many times your [TS]

01:09:50   but I just don't have that much to say [TS]

01:09:51   about well maybe we do that and then we [TS]

01:09:53   talked about we talked about toasters [TS]

01:09:55   the rest the time toasters I feel like I [TS]

01:09:57   have to prep for that's a serious [TS]

01:10:00   serious topic so yeah yeah maybe you [TS]

01:10:03   could put some work into the show and by [TS]

01:10:05   the way for the people who brought this [TS]

01:10:06   up I'm speaking specifically about [TS]

01:10:08   toaster ovens when I just say toasters I [TS]

01:10:10   mean a toaster oven you're not talking [TS]

01:10:11   about the kind where you put not talking [TS]

01:10:13   about slot toasters which may also stink [TS]

01:10:15   too but I just don't use them we can [TS]

01:10:17   tell I could talk about those enough to [TS]

01:10:18   cover for it they all say well I might [TS]

01:10:23   add items to the list okay and we just [TS]

01:10:27   did a non tech show so we're not I can't [TS]

01:10:29   yell at you about your called diets or [TS]

01:10:30   anything like that right well I can but [TS]

01:10:34   I'll do that off the air indeed all [TS]

01:10:38   right so I get I guess that's it for [TS]

01:10:39   this one you don't you don't to say what [TS]

01:10:41   we're doing next week we'll leave it a [TS]

01:10:42   mystery they don't need to know yeah and [TS]

01:10:44   also for this this format of what's [TS]

01:10:46   wrong with X they're all jackals anyway [TS]

01:10:48   those people I may have other we may [TS]

01:10:51   come back to this this may be a regular [TS]

01:10:53   thing you know in a couple weeks if I [TS]

01:10:55   decide what's wrong with you know if I [TS]

01:10:57   decide I want to do what's wrong with [TS]

01:10:58   Dropbox or people have suggestions for [TS]

01:11:00   companies or anything like that because [TS]

01:11:03   I like like thinking about this the more [TS]

01:11:04   popular the company the more beloved the [TS]

01:11:06   more interest [TS]

01:11:06   thing it is Dan and hey we can always do [TS]

01:11:11   encryption oh we got to do that I'm [TS]

01:11:14   gonna do that do it someday [TS]

01:11:20   in the meantime everyone's data will be [TS]

01:11:22   mercifully unencrypted all right so go [TS]

01:11:26   to five by five TV you can hear previous [TS]

01:11:29   episodes of this show you can see the [TS]

01:11:30   show notes and listen to other shows [TS]

01:11:33   that are there love to have you go there [TS]

01:11:36   and of course please rate the show you [TS]

01:11:38   have to rate it and review it for John [TS]

01:11:39   to be happy with you in index no [TS]

01:11:43   comments on it any comments somewhere [TS]

01:11:45   and the siracusa on twitter accent on [TS]

01:11:50   the a well you don't have the accent [TS]

01:11:52   mark we can work on that siracusa on to [TS]

01:11:55   it i'm dan benjamin on twitter we'd like [TS]

01:11:56   to thank you for listening thanks to our [TS]

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01:12:01   that's makers of sound studio for and [TS]

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01:12:07   thanks very much to them thanks for you [TS]

01:12:08   for listening we'll see y'all again next [TS]

01:12:11   week [TS]

01:12:20   you [TS]